Author Topic: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?  (Read 46634 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #615 on: February 05, 2019, 08:56:11 AM »
Which bit isn’t a fact?

That the PJ were investigating stranger abduction. I'm not even convinced that they were looking at those reports about British children, except perhaps at the request of OG.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #616 on: February 05, 2019, 06:27:04 PM »
That the PJ were investigating stranger abduction. I'm not even convinced that they were looking at those reports about British children, except perhaps at the request of OG.
So the paper is lying in your opinion when it writes this:

“The Judiciary Police said Wednesday that the link between the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and a man who sexually abused five girls in the Algarve between 2004 and 2006 corresponds to the line of investigation discovered by the police team, Porto in March 2011 to re-examine the case, which provided the basis for the request to reopen the Maddie case in October last year”.


"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #617 on: February 05, 2019, 07:22:30 PM »
So the paper is lying in your opinion when it writes this:

“The Judiciary Police said Wednesday that the link between the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and a man who sexually abused five girls in the Algarve between 2004 and 2006 corresponds to the line of investigation discovered by the police team, Porto in March 2011 to re-examine the case, which provided the basis for the request to reopen the Maddie case in October last year”.

No-one knows what the Porto team did, but their remit was to re-examine the files. There was nothing in the files about these children.

 the National Director of the Judiciary Police, in March 2011, assigned to a team of investigators from the North Directorate a task to re-examine the whole wide range of information contained in the inquest
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #618 on: February 05, 2019, 07:49:24 PM »
No-one knows what the Porto team did, but their remit was to re-examine the files. There was nothing in the files about these children.

 the National Director of the Judiciary Police, in March 2011, assigned to a team of investigators from the North Directorate a task to re-examine the whole wide range of information contained in the inquest
I’ll ask the question again: when the Portugese paper states that the JP were investigating a link between the sex attacks on the Algarve and Madeleine’s disappearance do you think they completely made it up?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #619 on: February 06, 2019, 08:04:19 AM »
I’ll ask the question again: when the Portugese paper states that the JP were investigating a link between the sex attacks on the Algarve and Madeleine’s disappearance do you think they completely made it up?

This story arose because OG turned it's attention to this line of enquiry. The UK media took the opportunity to criticise the PJ (again) for not telling OG about it earlier;

Wednesday 19th March 2014

Redwood appeals for information about the man who  allegedly attacked children in the Algarve. A burgandly top was mentioned. It was said that there were 12 incidents, nine of which were reported to the Portuguese police. UK news said that the Portuguese police didn't pass on the information about these crimes to OG; they only found out about it when three families responded to an appeal for information in 2013.
 https://www.channel4.com/news/madeleine-mccann-police-appeal-sex-attacker

Well that's wrong for a start. Kate McCann wrote  about it in her book in 2011. She said she found the information in some files. However;

The Portuguese have been accused once more of incompetence, so anything they say is going to be defensive. Amongst other things, they said that OG was told about it in October 2013 by the PJ, but OG decloned to comment;

Contacted by PÚBLICO, one of the spokesmen of the Metropolitan Police of London declined to comment on the clarifications made by the PJ, refusing to confirm or deny that British investigators were informed months ago by the Portuguese about this line of investigation. It remains to be explained why Scotland Yard decided to announce on Wednesday that it is looking for a sex offender.
https://www.publico.pt/2014/03/19/sociedade/noticia/pj-reabriu-inquerito-maddie-ha-meses-por-causa-de-suspeito-procurado-agora-pelos-ingleses-1628961

In my opinion it's by no means clear where the information came from or who knew about it and when. There were rumours but nothing concrete was said by any identifiable source.



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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #620 on: February 06, 2019, 08:40:44 AM »
This story arose because OG turned it's attention to this line of enquiry. The UK media took the opportunity to criticise the PJ (again) for not telling OG about it earlier;

Wednesday 19th March 2014

Redwood appeals for information about the man who  allegedly attacked children in the Algarve. A burgandly top was mentioned. It was said that there were 12 incidents, nine of which were reported to the Portuguese police. UK news said that the Portuguese police didn't pass on the information about these crimes to OG; they only found out about it when three families responded to an appeal for information in 2013.
 https://www.channel4.com/news/madeleine-mccann-police-appeal-sex-attacker

Well that's wrong for a start. Kate McCann wrote  about it in her book in 2011. She said she found the information in some files. However;

The Portuguese have been accused once more of incompetence, so anything they say is going to be defensive. Amongst other things, they said that OG was told about it in October 2013 by the PJ, but OG decloned to comment;

Contacted by PÚBLICO, one of the spokesmen of the Metropolitan Police of London declined to comment on the clarifications made by the PJ, refusing to confirm or deny that British investigators were informed months ago by the Portuguese about this line of investigation. It remains to be explained why Scotland Yard decided to announce on Wednesday that it is looking for a sex offender.
https://www.publico.pt/2014/03/19/sociedade/noticia/pj-reabriu-inquerito-maddie-ha-meses-por-causa-de-suspeito-procurado-agora-pelos-ingleses-1628961

In my opinion it's by no means clear where the information came from or who knew about it and when. There were rumours but nothing concrete was said by any identifiable source.
So, for the third time, in your opinion did the Portuguese paper make it all up regarding what it says the PJ said “on Wednesday”?  Furthermore do you concede that it may NOT be making it up and that the PJ were indeed investigating possible links to sex attacks on the Algarve, which in turn indicates investigating stranger abduction as Brietta said earlier?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #621 on: February 06, 2019, 08:54:26 AM »
So, for the third time, in your opinion did the Portuguese paper make it all up regarding what it says the PJ said “on Wednesday”?  Furthermore do you concede that it may NOT be making it up and that the PJ were indeed investigating possible links to sex attacks on the Algarve, which in turn indicates investigating stranger abduction as Brietta said earlier?

I don't know what was said to the press or who said it. Therefore I don't know whether it's true or not.  I do know that Pedro do Carmo said in 2017 that the PJ didn't know what crime was committed, so whatever lines of inquiry they have followed they have reached no conclusions.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #622 on: February 06, 2019, 09:02:23 AM »
I don't know what was said to the press or who said it. Therefore I don't know whether it's true or not.  I do know that Pedro do Carmo said in 2017 that the PJ didn't know what crime was committed, so whatever lines of inquiry they have followed they have reached no conclusions.
Do you therefore concede it is entirely possible if not likely that the PJ were investigating child sex attacks on the Algarve to explore possible links to the case?  Or do you think its far fetched?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #623 on: February 06, 2019, 09:34:32 AM »
From the same Portuguese article as linked to by Brietta

“The PJ source said that the similarities between the five cases were identified by the PJ do Porto team and that although there were formal complaints, the Portuguese authorities never found the perpetrator of sexual abuse, which may have been linked to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, in May 2007, of an apartment rented by his family in a Algarve resort in Praia da Luz.
Contacted by PÚBLICO, one of the spokesmen of the Metropolitan Police of London declined to comment on the clarifications made by the PJ, refusing to confirm or deny that British investigators were informed months ago by the Portuguese about this line of investigation. It remains to be explained why Scotland Yard decided to announce on Wednesday that it is looking for a sex offender.”

That’s a lot for a newspaper to make up!
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #624 on: February 06, 2019, 09:52:20 AM »
Do you therefore concede it is entirely possible if not likely that the PJ were investigating child sex attacks on the Algarve to explore possible links to the case?  Or do you think its far fetched?

I asked fr a cite showing that the PJ investigated stranger abduction. I didn't get one. I got newspaper speculation from which people deduced that the PJ investigated stranger abduction.
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #625 on: February 06, 2019, 10:11:28 AM »
I asked fr a cite showing that the PJ investigated stranger abduction. I didn't get one. I got newspaper speculation from which people deduced that the PJ investigated stranger abduction.
The newspaper does not speculate, it states as fact, or it is lying, which is it?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #626 on: February 06, 2019, 10:20:13 AM »
If the PJ didn’t investigate these Algarve sex attacks as stated in the paper and as a result of Operation Grange’s own investigation one would have to ask why the bloody hell didn’t they?!  Are they really that lazy and incompetent?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #627 on: February 06, 2019, 11:12:56 AM »
The newspaper does not speculate, it states as fact, or it is lying, which is it?

Vague and unattributed quotes are not facts. A year earlier Monteiro was being quoted as the reason the case was reopened;

Correio da Manha claimed: ‘Police suspicions about the former Ocean Club employee arose during the review of the case carried out by a PJ team from Porto.

‘This was the strongest new lead presented to state prosecutors which led to the investigation being reopened.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2484011/Main-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-heroin-addict-used-rob-holiday-apartments.html
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Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #628 on: February 06, 2019, 11:16:28 AM »
Vague and unattributed quotes are not facts. A year earlier Monteiro was being quoted as the reason the case was reopened;

Correio da Manha claimed: ‘Police suspicions about the former Ocean Club employee arose during the review of the case carried out by a PJ team from Porto.

‘This was the strongest new lead presented to state prosecutors which led to the investigation being reopened.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2484011/Main-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-heroin-addict-used-rob-holiday-apartments.html
You spectacularly miss the point.  YOU are the one doing the speculating, not the paper.  YOU are speculating that they are not reporting factually.  Either you are right and the paper completely fabricated the story about the PJ's stated claims on "Wednesday" and the PJ have NEVER investigated any link between Algarve sex attacks and the MM case (if not, why not, laziness, incompetence, cover up??)  or you are WRONG, and they have done, as correctly reported in the paper.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 11:27:21 AM by Vertigo Swirl »
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline G-Unit

Re: Manhunt by Colin Sutton. Are there comparisons with Madeleine?
« Reply #629 on: February 06, 2019, 12:22:25 PM »
You spectacularly miss the point.  YOU are the one doing the speculating, not the paper.  YOU are speculating that they are not reporting factually.  Either you are right and the paper completely fabricated the story about the PJ's stated claims on "Wednesday" and the PJ have NEVER investigated any link between Algarve sex attacks and the MM case (if not, why not, laziness, incompetence, cover up??)  or you are WRONG, and they have done, as correctly reported in the paper.

There's no way to check if the newspaper was telling ther truth. You have chosen to believe what they said, I haven't. In my opinion you should remember what Rowley said about newspaper reports.
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