Author Topic: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.  (Read 89814 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2013, 08:36:51 PM »
Whose son?

Sorry Carana. Leonors son.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2013, 08:38:08 PM »
She did shock everyone when she shouted abuse at Leonor in court

Supermarket lady? I haven't seen anything to that effect so far. I wasn't aware that she was even present in court. I'll have a look to check.

ETA: She's BB3 in the SC document

A testemunha BB3, proprietária de um supermercado na Figueira
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 08:40:43 PM by Carana »

Offline Anna

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2013, 08:49:21 PM »
Have I got this right

The sperm ............didn't go to court...... would have done if they had a case though
The Sexual abuse...didn't go to court ......But all the children were checked april 2004,...neg
The blood..............Inconclusive....animal and human......... unknown and blood marks on wall shown up by UV
incest....................Unproven

cant remember what else with forensics
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2013, 09:22:24 PM »
This is the court case which would be recorded by CM these are all in the court case thre

« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 07:41:44 PM by Anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2013, 09:27:53 PM »
Have I got this right

The sperm ............didn't go to court...... would have done if they had a case though
The Sexual abuse...didn't go to court ......But all the children were checked april 2004,...neg
The blood..............Inconclusive....animal and human......... unknown and blood marks on wall shown up by UV
incest....................Unproven

cant remember what else with forensics

I'll need to double-check on this sperm issue. I had found a document, but I can't find the link for the moment. The bottom line was that it was dropped.

UV showed up fluorescent patches. Whatever the main substances may have been that were fluorescent, somewhere in some of those at least were traces of blood, both human and a mixture of human and animal blood. The trace of blood at the back of a freezer drawer was human. None seem to have been identified as being Joana's.

Incest was unproven (and although possible, seems somewhat unlikely - IMO - with two kids sleeping, Joana who'd only gone on a 1/2 hour errand, her partner and the other guy who could have turned up at home at any point...).

Offline Carana

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #65 on: December 23, 2013, 09:40:02 PM »
Copying the original of that passage, she does seem to have made an emotional statement, but from what I can work out from that article, it was recorded at the end of September (before the trial). She doesn't seem to have been physically in court. She was clearly fond of Joana, and may well have believed the press at the time. Hard to tell. In a later statement (for the torture trial), she said that she'd never seen Leonor hitting her. There's no mention that I can find in the SC document about having had her medically checked for potential sex abuse when she took her to hospital for a cough. So, for the moment, I can't see anything to corroborate that.

"COMO FOSTE CAPAZ?"
“Leonor, como é que foste capaz de fazer uma coisa destas?” A sala gelou quando ouviu Nídia Rochato dirigir-se directamente a Leonor, na audição do seu testemunho para memória futura, gravado no final de Setembro. Após dois dias de julgamento, marcados pela frieza dos testemunhos, as palavras gravadas da dona do supermercado de Figueira, e amiga de Joana, comoveram a assistência.
“Contou-me que na outra escola fazia colares e os vendia aos colegas. E disse que podia fazer o mesmo na Figueira.” Nídia, que agora trabalha em Inglaterra, contou ainda como levou a menina à escola no primeiro dia, como foi com ela ao médico e como ajudou Leonor a procurá-la, sem suspeitar de nada. “Fiz tudo pela Joana. Só não fiz o que deveria ter feito, que era tirá-la da mãe.”

Offline Anna

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2013, 09:51:05 PM »
2006 appeal


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
blood traces appeared on the floor, on the walls, the bucket and mop, on the sole of each toe shoes that were in the room and in a drawer of the cabinet; the defendant John collaborated in a reconstitution of the facts on which you have indicated how the child died ; collaborated yet another reconstitution of rendering the child and by several times mentioned to the PJ locations where the body could be found; in addition to the testimony of those who heard the defendants say that they killed (or that the John Eventually killed) the child. Those traces, second tests carried out, are of human blood and human blood and animal (cfr. fls. 235), and although they were insufficient to ascertain to whom they belong through the DNA MOLECULE (fls. 1780 ss), are revealing that in the living room of the house
http://www.dgsi.pt/jstj.nsf/954f0ce6ad9dd8b980256b5f003fa814/bfaf1cea93ab75fb8025716200388d89?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,cipriano





7 oct 2005

The suspicion of any sexual abuse was, incidentally, a question being asked by many inhabitants in the village of Figueira, when Joana has disappeared. AND in November 2004, sources linked to research began to pass on a message that until then would be "important people" involved in that case.
 However, the responsibility of a small grocery store in that hamlet said at the time to our newspaper that, significantly in April, took advantage of a consultation of the girl at the Hospital of the Barlavento in Portimao, to ask for a medical examination to joana, in order to find out whether she had, in fact, been the victim of rape. The test was negative. Also the two sons of stepfather Joana - Ruben and Lara, three and two years, respectively - were seen by doctors, but nothing was detected in this respect.
http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006708&especial=Caso Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE


12 oct 2004
However, the woman who lives cohabit with another uncle of joana, Nelson Cyprian, assumed the Judicial Police that "when he went to the house of Leonor and stayed in bed of joana, kept one or two sexual relations with his companion and without condom".  Such a situation could help to clarify how it is that, on some occasions, was  sperm on the bed of Joana.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/judiciaria-escava-na-figueira
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 03:46:27 PM by anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Anna

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2013, 10:16:55 PM »
Copying the original of that passage, she does seem to have made an emotional statement, but from what I can work out from that article, it was recorded at the end of September (before the trial). She doesn't seem to have been physically in court. She was clearly fond of Joana, and may well have believed the press at the time. Hard to tell. In a later statement (for the torture trial), she said that she'd never seen Leonor hitting her. There's no mention that I can find in the SC document about having had her medically checked for potential sex abuse when she took her to hospital for a cough. So, for the moment, I can't see anything to corroborate that.

"COMO FOSTE CAPAZ?"
“Leonor, como é que foste capaz de fazer uma coisa destas?” A sala gelou quando ouviu Nídia Rochato dirigir-se directamente a Leonor, na audição do seu testemunho para memória futura, gravado no final de Setembro. Após dois dias de julgamento, marcados pela frieza dos testemunhos, as palavras gravadas da dona do supermercado de Figueira, e amiga de Joana, comoveram a assistência.
“Contou-me que na outra escola fazia colares e os vendia aos colegas. E disse que podia fazer o mesmo na Figueira.” Nídia, que agora trabalha em Inglaterra, contou ainda como levou a menina à escola no primeiro dia, como foi com ela ao médico e como ajudou Leonor a procurá-la, sem suspeitar de nada. “Fiz tudo pela Joana. Só não fiz o que deveria ter feito, que era tirá-la da mãe.”


Maybe she moved in sep 2005 then. Not exactly straight after Joana disappeared, as Leandro stated is it ?
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2013, 10:34:33 PM »
Maybe she moved in sep 2005 then. Not exactly straight after Joana disappeared, as Leandro stated is it ?

Don't know when she moved. Just that her statement was recorded in September. Whether she'd gone back to PT to record it or whether she managed to do it from the UK... no idea.

Offline John

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #69 on: December 27, 2013, 02:03:21 AM »
2006 appeal


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
blood traces appeared on the floor, on the walls, the bucket and mop, on the sole of each toe shoes that were in the room and in a drawer of the cabinet; the defendant John collaborated in a reconstitution of the facts on which you have indicated how the child died ; collaborated yet another reconstitution of rendering the child and by several times mentioned to the PJ locations where the body could be found; in addition to the testimony of those who heard the defendants say that they killed (or that the John Eventually killed) the child. Those traces, second tests carried out, are of human blood and human blood and animal (cfr. fls. 235), and although they were insufficient to ascertain to whom they belong through the DNA MOLECULE (fls. 1780 ss), are revealing that in the living room of the house
http://www.dgsi.pt/jstj.nsf/954f0ce6ad9dd8b980256b5f003fa814/bfaf1cea93ab75fb8025716200388d89?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,cipriano





7 Oct 2005

The suspicion of any sexual abuse was, incidentally, a question being asked by many inhabitants in the village of Figueira, when Joana has disappeared. AND in November 2004, sources linked to research began to pass on a message that until then would be "important people" involved in that case.
 However, the responsibility of a small grocery store in that hamlet said at the time to our newspaper that, significantly in April, took advantage of a consultation of the girl at the Hospital of the Barlavento in Portimao, to ask for a medical examination to joana, in order to find out whether she had, in fact, been the victim of rape. The test was negative. Also the two sons of stepfather Joana - Ruben and Lara, three and two years, respectively - were seen by doctors, but nothing was detected in this respect.
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/suspeita-de-violacao-da-menina


12 Oct 2004
However, the woman who lives cohabit with another uncle of joana, Nelson Cyprian, assumed the Judicial Police that "when he went to the house of Leonor and stayed in bed of joana, kept one or two sexual relations with his companion and without condom".  Such a situation could help to clarify how it is that, on some occasions, was  sperm on the bed of Joana.

http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/judiciaria-escava-na-figueira

Anna, your CM link doesn't match the text on 7 Oct 2005 ?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Anna

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2013, 03:45:04 PM »
Anna, your CM link doesn't match the text on 7 Oct 2005 ?

Sorry I used a few newspapers and must have got them muddled

Hopefully it is this one  http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006708&especial=Caso Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2013, 06:25:30 PM »
Thanks, Anna.

I'm wondering if this is actually true. I haven't found anything to substantiate the allegations that the children were checked for signs of sexual abuse. When? Where are the reports? Wouldn't such tests, on Joana, at least (prior to the arrests), need the parents' agreement, or that of the social services?

And what's this about "sources" alleging that "important people" were involved? Was this a general paranoia about the Casa Pia case?

I find that somewhat dubious for the moment...


Mãe de Joana é suspeita em novo caso de maus tratos

por José Manuel Oliveira07 outubro 2005Comentar

Leonor Cipriano, mãe da criança desaparecida há mais de um ano na localidade de Figueira, no concelho de Portimão, foi constituída arguida num processo de suspeita de abusos sexuais e maus tratos perpetrados contra a filha, Joana, instaurado pelo Ministério Público. Na origem deste novo processo estarão vestígios de sangue e de sémen detectados pelo Laboratório da Polícia Científica numa peça de roupa interior da menina que estava na casa onde vivia.

Leonor Cipriano foi ontem inquirida, durante cerca de uma ho-ra, na PJ de Faro, na presença do seu advogado oficioso, João Grade. Quando chegou ao local, apresentava sinais de cansaço e apatia.

Segundo soube o DN, há mais arguidos naquele caso, nomeadamente familiares do sexo masculino e amigos do padrasto da menor, Leandro Silva, aos quais foi recolhida há meses saliva para investigações sobre ADN. Recorde-se que há cerca de sete meses Carlos Alberto, meio-irmão de Leandro Silva, foi constituído arguido por suspeita de abusos sexuais, mas o processo foi arquivado pouco depois.

Vários familiares de Joana garantem inocência neste novo processo. "Nesta família não há assassinos nem pedófilos. Só pedimos que a PJ investigue tudo bem", apelaram, em declarações ao DN.

A suspeita de eventuais abusos sexuais foi, de resto, uma questão alvitrada por muitos populares na aldeia da Figueira, quando Joana desapareceu. E em Novembro de 2004, fontes ligadas à investigação começaram a passar a mensagem de que até haveria "pessoas importantes" envolvidas naquele caso. Contudo, a responsável de um minimercado naquela povoação disse na altura ao nosso jornal que, sensivelmente em Abril, aproveitou uma consulta da miúda no Hospital do Barlavento, em Portimão, para pedir aos médicos um exame à Joana, a fim de saber se tinha, de facto, sido vítima de violação. O teste foi negativo. Também os dois filhos do padrasto de Joana - Ruben e Lara, de três e dois anos, respectivamente - foram vistos pelos médicos, mas nada foi detectado nesse sentido.


http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006708&especial=Caso%20Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE


Offline Anna

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2013, 06:41:41 PM »
Thanks, Anna.

I'm wondering if this is actually true. I haven't found anything to substantiate the allegations that the children were checked for signs of sexual abuse. When? Where are the reports? Wouldn't such tests, on Joana, at least (prior to the arrests), need the parents' agreement, or that of the social services?

And what's this about "sources" alleging that "important people" were involved? Was this a general paranoia about the Casa Pia case?

I find that somewhat dubious for the moment...


Mãe de Joana é suspeita em novo caso de maus tratos

por José Manuel Oliveira07 outubro 2005Comentar

Leonor Cipriano, mãe da criança desaparecida há mais de um ano na localidade de Figueira, no concelho de Portimão, foi constituída arguida num processo de suspeita de abusos sexuais e maus tratos perpetrados contra a filha, Joana, instaurado pelo Ministério Público. Na origem deste novo processo estarão vestígios de sangue e de sémen detectados pelo Laboratório da Polícia Científica numa peça de roupa interior da menina que estava na casa onde vivia.

Leonor Cipriano foi ontem inquirida, durante cerca de uma ho-ra, na PJ de Faro, na presença do seu advogado oficioso, João Grade. Quando chegou ao local, apresentava sinais de cansaço e apatia.

Segundo soube o DN, há mais arguidos naquele caso, nomeadamente familiares do sexo masculino e amigos do padrasto da menor, Leandro Silva, aos quais foi recolhida há meses saliva para investigações sobre ADN. Recorde-se que há cerca de sete meses Carlos Alberto, meio-irmão de Leandro Silva, foi constituído arguido por suspeita de abusos sexuais, mas o processo foi arquivado pouco depois.

Vários familiares de Joana garantem inocência neste novo processo. "Nesta família não há assassinos nem pedófilos. Só pedimos que a PJ investigue tudo bem", apelaram, em declarações ao DN.

A suspeita de eventuais abusos sexuais foi, de resto, uma questão alvitrada por muitos populares na aldeia da Figueira, quando Joana desapareceu. E em Novembro de 2004, fontes ligadas à investigação começaram a passar a mensagem de que até haveria "pessoas importantes" envolvidas naquele caso. Contudo, a responsável de um minimercado naquela povoação disse na altura ao nosso jornal que, sensivelmente em Abril, aproveitou uma consulta da miúda no Hospital do Barlavento, em Portimão, para pedir aos médicos um exame à Joana, a fim de saber se tinha, de facto, sido vítima de violação. O teste foi negativo. Também os dois filhos do padrasto de Joana - Ruben e Lara, de três e dois anos, respectivamente - foram vistos pelos médicos, mas nada foi detectado nesse sentido.


http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006708&especial=Caso%20Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE


Hi Carana . I hope you had good xmas without storm and floods

Maybe the police checked it out and that's why thy didn't bother with the sperm tests. Only other source could be the hospital. this evidence would have been Defence and that wasn't wanted by the look of the trial
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline sadie

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2013, 10:17:28 PM »
Thanks, Anna.

I'm wondering if this is actually true. I haven't found anything to substantiate the allegations that the children were checked for signs of sexual abuse. When? Where are the reports? Wouldn't such tests, on Joana, at least (prior to the arrests), need the parents' agreement, or that of the social services?

And what's this about "sources" alleging that "important people" were involved?
Was this a general paranoia about the Casa Pia case?

I find that somewhat dubious for the moment...


Mãe de Joana é suspeita em novo caso de maus tratos

por José Manuel Oliveira07 outubro 2005Comentar

Leonor Cipriano, mãe da criança desaparecida há mais de um ano na localidade de Figueira, no concelho de Portimão, foi constituída arguida num processo de suspeita de abusos sexuais e maus tratos perpetrados contra a filha, Joana, instaurado pelo Ministério Público. Na origem deste novo processo estarão vestígios de sangue e de sémen detectados pelo Laboratório da Polícia Científica numa peça de roupa interior da menina que estava na casa onde vivia.

Leonor Cipriano foi ontem inquirida, durante cerca de uma ho-ra, na PJ de Faro, na presença do seu advogado oficioso, João Grade. Quando chegou ao local, apresentava sinais de cansaço e apatia.

Segundo soube o DN, há mais arguidos naquele caso, nomeadamente familiares do sexo masculino e amigos do padrasto da menor, Leandro Silva, aos quais foi recolhida há meses saliva para investigações sobre ADN. Recorde-se que há cerca de sete meses Carlos Alberto, meio-irmão de Leandro Silva, foi constituído arguido por suspeita de abusos sexuais, mas o processo foi arquivado pouco depois.

Vários familiares de Joana garantem inocência neste novo processo. "Nesta família não há assassinos nem pedófilos. Só pedimos que a PJ investigue tudo bem", apelaram, em declarações ao DN.

A suspeita de eventuais abusos sexuais foi, de resto, uma questão alvitrada por muitos populares na aldeia da Figueira, quando Joana desapareceu. E em Novembro de 2004, fontes ligadas à investigação começaram a passar a mensagem de que até haveria "pessoas importantes" envolvidas naquele caso. Contudo, a responsável de um minimercado naquela povoação disse na altura ao nosso jornal que, sensivelmente em Abril, aproveitou uma consulta da miúda no Hospital do Barlavento, em Portimão, para pedir aos médicos um exame à Joana, a fim de saber se tinha, de facto, sido vítima de violação. O teste foi negativo. Também os dois filhos do padrasto de Joana - Ruben e Lara, de três e dois anos, respectivamente - foram vistos pelos médicos, mas nada foi detectado nesse sentido.


http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006708&especial=Caso%20Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE
These two points are worrying me all the time. 

1.  Just who are the important people?  How do they fit into the case? 
The black limousine cruising around keeps coming into my mind. 

Also there is a lot of money around near Figuiera.
 
Within 6 miles we have:
The Lagos and also Portimao Marinas with beautiful motor yachts and other luxury vessels.
The small airstrip at Lagos for light aircraft
The airfield/ flying club for private planes only a mile away at Alvor and
The famous Penina Golf Course, internationally renouned I believe, also less than a mile away
Already in 2004, the spot for the prestigeouis Autodromo Internacional (racing car track) do Algarve is marked on GE. so moneyed important people would be visiting there
Also bountiful fishing, both ocean and inland.
Health farms

And
2.  I simply cannot imagine anyone taking someone elses child to a doctors or a clinic/hospital to have her checked out for sexual abuse.  I suppose it is possible, but it seems unlikely to me.... unless ....

Offline John

Re: Joana Cipriano case - Very detailed Supreme Court Report.
« Reply #74 on: December 27, 2013, 11:00:01 PM »
Isn't it bloody marvellous? Just seven months before her disappearance Joana was subjected to an internal examination in hospital to determine if she had been raped. The test was negative.  Also the two children of the stepfather of Joana - Ruben and Lara, three and two years, respectively - were seen by doctors, but nothing was detected accordingly.  Those poor little tots!

www.translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx%3Fcontent_id%3D1006708%26especial%3DCaso%2520Joana%26seccao%3DSOCIEDADE&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwww.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx%253Fcontent_id%253D1006708%2526especial%253DCaso%252520Joana%2526seccao%253DSOCIEDADE
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 11:06:21 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.