Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?

[Mr Gray]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-sage-dominic-cummings-david-king-a9496546.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1588517897

Sir David revealed his plans for a shadow committee in The Sunday Times, adding: “I am not at all critical of the scientists who are putting advice before the Government

I would think there are good reasons why the minutes are not made public

[faithlilly]

Sir David revealed his plans for a shadow committee in The Sunday Times, adding: “I am not at all critical of the scientists who are putting advice before the Government

I would think there are good reasons why the minutes are not made public

I think that’s called diplomacy.

[Mr Gray]

I think that’s called diplomacy.

I think you dont understand...how can he be critical of them if he doesnt know what they are saying

[faithlilly]

I think you dont understand...how can he be critical of them if he doesnt know what they are saying

I do understand and you have no idea how much information he and his fellow scientists have.

[Mr Gray]

I do understand and you have no idea how much information he and his fellow scientists have.

I watched  a few chunks of their presentaion which wasnt particularly impressive....they couldnt seem to get the microphone sto work properly...hopefully they will sort it out necxt time.

david king who is leading this was the scientist who advised the Labour Govt that diesel cars were safer and to reduce the duty on ndeisel to persuade motorists to change. This caused abut 10,000 deaths accross europe per year . deisel cars are now being phased out.....so thats his track record.

Then we have the fact hes assembled a group with a predominately left wing bias....no tory supporters...plenty of labour supporters...all remainers...whilst claiming that advice should be non political...its more than  a bit of  a joke

GUY ADAMS: Ex-science tsar Sir David King has built a Left-wing cabal to dispense virus health advice (but says ministers' experts are too political to be trusted!)


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8286797/GUY-ADAMS-Ex-science-tsar-Sir-David-King-told-switch-diesel.html


The committee does not, on the face of things, appear to contain a single member who was among the 43.6 per cent who voted for Mr Johnson in December. Neither does it seem to contain anyone who was in the 52 per cent of voters who chose to leave the EU in 2016.

[faithlilly]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-highest-europe-cases-covid-19-italy-spain-a9499181.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1588669521

[Mr Gray]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-highest-europe-cases-covid-19-italy-spain-a9499181.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1588669521

those figures are not reliable as each contry may well record figures differently. What cannot be dispute is the increase in the historical average death rate for each country...and cities...

uk and wales 52%.....spain 72%...italy 90%....

https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest




   There are concerns, however, that reported Covid-19 deaths are not capturing the true impact of coronavirus on mortality around the world. The FT has gathered and analysed data on excess mortality — the numbers of deaths over and above the historical average — across the globe, and has found that death tolls in some countries are more than 50 per cent higher than usual. In many countries, these excess deaths exceed reported numbers of Covid-19 deaths by large margins.

[faithlilly]

those figures are not reliable as each contry may well record figures differently. What cannot be dispute is the increase in the historical average death rate for each country...and cities...

uk and wales 52%.....spain 72%...italy 90%....

https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest



   There are concerns, however, that reported Covid-19 deaths are not capturing the true impact of coronavirus on mortality around the world. The FT has gathered and analysed data on excess mortality — the numbers of deaths over and above the historical average — across the globe, and has found that death tolls in some countries are more than 50 per cent higher than usual. In many countries, these excess deaths exceed reported numbers of Covid-19 deaths by large margins.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/05/why-no-10s-covid-19-death-toll-slides-dont-tell-the-whole-story

[faithlilly]

Just brilliant.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/07/with-the-pm-in-hiding-raab-takes-cover-behind-the-science

[Carana]

Seems obvious to me. IMO, if the pandemic hadn't happened, the default position would have been to blame the EU, which may still be added to the pot.

The question still remains, though, what exactly is the plan to get the UK out of this dual mess?

Phil Hogan:

“I think that the United Kingdom politicians and government have certainly decided that COVID is going to be blamed for all the fallout from Brexit and my perception of it is they don’t want to drag the negotiations out into 2021 because they can effectively blame COVID for everything.”
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-eu/no-sign-britain-wants-eu-trade-talks-to-succeed-eu-trade-chief-idUKKBN22J27E

[Carana]

those figures are not reliable as each contry may well record figures differently. What cannot be dispute is the increase in the historical average death rate for each country...and cities...

uk and wales 52%.....spain 72%...italy 90%....

https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest




   There are concerns, however, that reported Covid-19 deaths are not capturing the true impact of coronavirus on mortality around the world. The FT has gathered and analysed data on excess mortality — the numbers of deaths over and above the historical average — across the globe, and has found that death tolls in some countries are more than 50 per cent higher than usual. In many countries, these excess deaths exceed reported numbers of Covid-19 deaths by large margins.

Yes, I agree that the different ways that countries have been determing and recording deaths isn't helpful. And I agree that the excess death rates are a reasonable proxy.

However, according to the excess death rates in countries tracked so far by the FT, the UK now has the highest rate (62%).
https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

[faithlilly]

Yes, I agree that the different ways that countries have been determing and recording deaths isn't helpful. And I agree that the excess death rates are a reasonable proxy.

However, according to the excess death rates in countries tracked so far by the FT, the UK now has the highest rate (62%).
https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

There was a very revealing comment on, I think , Question Time made by a contributor. They said that the government was happy to compare the U.K. to Italy, Spain etc re-deaths when the date rates in those countries were way above the figures here but now our death tolls are outstripping theirs we are told we are not comparing like for like.

[Carana]

There was a very revealing comment on, I think , Question Time made by a contributor. They said that the government was happy to compare the U.K. to Italy, Spain etc re-deaths when the date rates in those countries were way above the figures here but now our death tolls are outstripping theirs we are told we are not comparing like for like.

Yes, here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLKPeau-sz0

[faithlilly]

Yes, here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLKPeau-sz0

That’s the one. Thanks Carana.

[Carana]

I'd heard about this Channel 4 documentary, but only watched it today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Piie71tf_bU

The UK is by no means the only country with PPE shortages, but it was supposed to be near the top of the preparedness index. It did indeed have a large stock of PPE and other equipment... but a vast percentage was out of date.