Author Topic: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case  (Read 18683 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline John

Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« on: April 04, 2013, 02:53:14 PM »
Now might be a good time to start a list of the myths in the Madeleine McCann case so I have started a new child board (appropriate name) under the main Topic

You can find it here.


« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 03:01:37 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 03:18:23 PM »
Can anyone furnish details in relation to the proposed reconstruction?   Such as who suggested it, why it never happened, who didn't want to take part etc etc....
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

registrar

  • Guest
Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 03:23:41 PM »
lengthy sorry:

Email sent to Ricardo Paiva from Graham Michael

19 March 2008 16:39

(processo/16 - VOLUME XVIa.pdf P84, 85 )
Vol. XVI p. 4214

Dear Ricardo,

I refer to our recent telephone call conversations and can confirm that we will starting the interview process w/c 7th April 2008. I hope the e-mail sent on Thursday 13th March helps with your arrangements for your accommodation.

I am in receipt of your e-mail regarding further questions for John Lowe at the FSS and I will forward them for him to answer.

As discussed on Friday, we have made contact with the holiday group (Paynes, Webster, O'Brien, Tanner, Oldfield, Mampilly) regarding their availability for the proposed dates for a re-enactment in Portugal. We are still awaiting response from Jeremy Wilkins.

Before they will fully commit to attending they have the following questions that they reguest are answered:-

1 - Why do the PJ want them to take part in the re-enactment?
2 - What is the aim, what are the PJ trying to achieve with the re-enactment?
3 - Why so close to the anniversary?
4 - Why don't the PJ use actors?
5 - Will the footage of the re-enactment be released to the press/TV etc?
6 - What protection is there for the friends in relation to the media coverage/likely frenzy?

Would you please speak with the Director regarding these questions and consider how you would like us to respond. I would be grateful for a prompt response as this will hopefully ensure that the witnesses are available to attend.

Yours Sincerely

Mick Graham
Detective Inspector
Major Crime Unit


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email sent to Graham Michael / Stuart Prior from Ricardo Paiva

20 March 2008 11:56

(processo/16 - VOLUME XVIa.pdf P86,87 )
Vol. XVI p. 4216 and 4219 (4217 is the same, in Portugese)

Hello good morning Mick.

In answer to the questions raised by the holiday group regarding the re-enactment in Praia da Luz, Mr Paulo Rebelo wishes to clarify them as follows:

1 - Why do the PJ want them to take part in the re-enactment?

The PJ wants them to take part in the re-enactment because they were the ones who experienced the situation. Therefore they are in the best conditions to reproduce it.

2 - What is the aim, what are the PJ trying to achieve with the re-enactment?

The PJ is trying to find out, with accuracy, the circunstances of the events occurred, using for that purpose the exact place of events and the same persons who took part in it.

3 - Why so close to the anniversary?

Only now has the PJ contitions to carry out these procedings, and also because it is desirable that the weather conditions are as similar as possible to those at the time of the events.

4 - Why don't the PJ use actors?

The reason is because only the persons involved can clarify, with accuracy and at the same place, their position and movements.

5 - Will the footageof the re-enactment be released to the press/TV etc?

The PJ won't release any pictures/footage to the press.

6 - What protection is there for the friends in relation to the media coverage/like frenzy?

The place will be isolated and press interference will be avoided to its maximum.

The re-enactment will be carried out in one single day, at the exact time the events occurred.

However, the witnesses are requested to stay in Portugal for a couple of days more, in order to allow the production of all the material which shall be analysed, checked and signed by the persons involved.

Best regards.

Ricardo Paiva


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email sent to Ricardo Paiva from Graham Michael / cc. Stuart Prior, Gary Watts, Nigel Baraclough

28 March 2008 16:33

(processo/16 - VOLUME XVIa.pdf P89 )
Vol XVI p. 4218

Dear Ricardo,

An update for you, as discussed this morning;

We have spoken on a number of ocasions with the holiday group and they are still undecided whether they will agree to attend Portugal to take part in this process.

As a group, they are waiting to see if Gerry and Kate McCann will be invited to attend and participate in the re-enactment. It is my understanding that if Gerry and Kate do not participate in this process, then the decision will be that they will not attend.

In addition, the group have stated that they would require written reassurances about how the process was going to be conducted before agreeing to attend.

Therefore, until these issues are resolved we are unable to get a firm commitment from the holiday group to attend on either of the proposed dates.

Mick


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email to Stuart Prior from Paulo Rebelo concerning questions from the Tapas Seven, re: the proposed reconstruction

15 April 2008

Table of Contents : Vol 16..(PDF page 57)..Page 4187

From : Paulo Fernando Gaspar Rebelo
Date : 15th April 2008
To : "Prior Stuart"
Subject : Witnesses' Questions

Dear Stuart,

As previously agreed, here I send the answers to the questions raised by the holidaying group and Jeremy Wilkins regarding the re-inactment.

I also inform you, about the matter of Gerald McCann's credit cards intelligence, that the Prosecutor is not available to make any more changes to the LOR.

Thank you very much, again, for your fantastic cooperation.

Best regards,
Paulo Rebelo.
CSIC


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment to Stuart Prior from Paulo Rebelo, answering the questions raised by witnesses over the proposed reconstruction (see previous email)

15 April 2008

Processos Volume XVI, pgs. 4190 to 4192

Dear Stuart,

As agreed during our visit to Leicester last week, and in order to provide an answer to the questions raised by various witnesses in the investigation into the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann, regarding the possibility of carrying out a re-enactment on the site of the events, I shall inform you of the following:

1 – Regarding the arguido or formal suspect status of Gerald McCann and Kate McCann, it is not the PJ’s competence to take the decision on the respective clearance. Thus, it is not possible to ensure the arguido status will be changed;

2 – There is no need for the witnesses to be accompanied by their children. For efficiency and celerity purposes, we indeed request that the children don’t accompany their parents;

3 – The re-enactment, within the LOR, shall take place probably on May 15, 2008, between 5.30 p.m. and 11 p.m., thus covering the time period before dinner, dinner time and about an hour after having checked that the child had gone missing;

4 – A postponing of the re-enactment will only happen if the weather conditions are extremely bad, once the sites where most part of the events took place weren’t exposed to such conditions. We also add the draft agenda to the proceedings, which we plan to be as follows:

- May 15 – In the morning – Arrival to Portugal of the participants in the proceedings;
- - In the afternoon – The re-enactment
- May 16 – During the day – Preparation, by the PJ, of the records and documents of the proceedings which will be displayed, reviewed and signed by the participants;
- May 17 – In the morning or in the afternoon – Departure of the participants.

5 – The re-enactment will be carried out with the attendance of the nine holidaying friends, as well as, incidentally, any figurant considered to be necessary for a visualization of the events, i.e. a man carrying a child;

6 – The re-enactment site will be isolated, as much as possible, in order to preserve the security and the integrity of the proceedings. However, we can neither assure the evacuation of the population, nor guarantee the press won't interfere out of the security perimeter which will be established. Thus, we will do our best efforts to try and avoid picture taking by the press. However, we can not completely ensure that won't happen;

7 – The re-enactment will only turn out to be efficient if performed by the participants in the events, once the information provided by the same participants needs to be tested and efficiently compared on-site, and that can only be achieved by means of their own performances. Thus, the possibility of using actors has to be put aside;

8 – The request for the presence of witnesses was submitted through the LOR; the notification for the attendance of the arguidos falls under the competence of the Public Prosecutor's Office;

9 – If it is their wish, the witnesses can be assisted by the Foreign Office and, in the proceedings, also by a legal representative, subject to the consent of the Public Prosecutor's Office. Within the scope of the cooperation that has been taking place, the Leicestershire Police has already been invited to be present in the proceedings;

10 – If the conditions to make the re-enactments are achieved, the payments of participants’ airfares and the stay costs will be subject of later evaluation;

11 – The PJ will be responsible for ensuring personal security for all the participants in the proceedings and will facilitate transfers from and to the airport, and from and to the proceedings. The PJ does not foresee any hostile environment or the occurrence of events able to put the participants' physical and psychological integrity at risk;

12 – The witnesses will be invited to participate in the re-enactment, but there are no suspicions over them regarding the commission of any criminal acts;

13 – The translation services of these inquiry proceedings will be provided by private officers of the PJ;

14 – The PJ considers this re-enactment to be highly important, and hopes the witnesses show their total cooperation, as they have been doing so far, towards finding out the truth.

We hope we have provided the answers to all the questions raised by the participants and, for logistics and case preparation purposes, we kindly request to be informed about the participants' respective answers until April 25, 2008.

Best regards,

Paulo Rebelo
CSIC


A decision is requested and the witnesses respond negatively


  Rachael and Matthew Oldfield
  Email to Rachael Oldfield from Stuart Prior

17 April 2008

Table of Contents : Vol XVI page 4226
 


registrar

  • Guest
Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 03:25:52 PM »
Nutshell:


quote
In addition, the group have stated that they would require written reassurances about how the process was going to be conducted before agreeing to attend.
unquote

registrar

  • Guest
Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 03:27:33 PM »
That's not a high - 5 - let's do the reconstruction

is it?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2013, 03:39:31 PM »
When the McCann's holiday companions ultimately refused to do a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared,  did they give any reasons, or did they just say no ?

Anyone know  ?

registrar

  • Guest
Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2013, 03:44:38 PM »
When the McCann's holiday companions ultimately refused to do a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared,  did they give any reasons, or did they just say no ?

Anyone know  ?

Do read my copy of the files above kindly

The 'friends' had no intention to attend the reconstruction


icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 04:01:20 PM »
When the McCann's holiday companions ultimately refused to do a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared,  did they give any reasons, or did they just say no ?

Anyone know  ?

Do read my copy of the files above kindly

The 'friends' had no intention to attend the reconstruction

Yes,  I agree they probably had no intention of ever attending a reconstruction,  and thanks for the quotes from the police files.

What I wanted to know,  though,  was what they actually gave as reasons for not attending when all the posturing was done

debunker

  • Guest
Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2013, 04:06:39 PM »
When the McCann's holiday companions ultimately refused to do a reconstruction of the night Madeleine disappeared,  did they give any reasons, or did they just say no ?

Anyone know  ?

Do read my copy of the files above kindly



The 'friends' had no intention to attend the reconstruction

Yes,  I agree they probably had no intention of ever attending a reconstruction,  and thanks for the quotes from the police files.



What I wanted to know,  though,  was what they actually gave as reasons for not attending when all the posturing was done


They simply said that they were unavailable on the offered dates (as was their right). The EAW does not cover witnesses.

Offline gilet

Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2013, 05:30:18 PM »
I believe there was a much earlier reconstruction mooted (sometime in May or June 2007 I think) which was never undertaken.

Surely there is something somewhere which explains why the PJ did not do a reconstruction at that juncture when it would have been fresh in the minds of Ocean Club staff and everyone else involved?


Online Eleanor

Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2013, 05:39:33 PM »

I heard it said that The PJ don't do that sort of thing.  and.  It would mean closing air space.
Whatever, The McCanns wanted a Reconstruction at that time when it might have helped.

Offline John

Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2013, 06:33:09 PM »
Another myth I want to explore for our list is where the comment attributed to Kate, namely, "they've taken her" came from with all the connotations that go with it.

Any ideas?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Online Eleanor

Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2013, 06:39:04 PM »
Another myth I want to explore for our list is where the comment attributed to Kate, namely, "they've taken her" came from with all the connotations that go with it.

Any ideas?

People often use "They" when they don't know the gender.  But it is not at all certain that this is what Kate said.  Some say that she said, Madeleine's gone."  This has been interpreted to mean that Kate was saying that Madeleine was dead and gone.

Offline John

Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2013, 09:17:43 PM »
We know from the statements given by the others that when Kate arrived back at the tapas bar at 10pm she uttered the words, "She's gone Gerry, Madeleine's gone".

The full text of the interview conducted by DC 1485 MESSIAH with Fiona Payne as follows...

1485
'And what did she say when she came back''

 
Reply
' 'She's gone Gerry, Madeleine's gone', I'm hundred per cent about that'.

 
 
1485
'And we've discussed how she looked, she looked shocked and'.

 
Reply
'She was just frantic'.

 
 
1485
'Frantic. Were you shocked by her words''

 
Reply
'Absolutely, I mean I didn't, it was so sort of out of context of the evening and the holiday, initially it was, it, I mean it was just pure, you know, the words sinking in, the shock, the horror of what, what that might mean and I know those are her first words, I know there's been a lot of reported since about people saying, you know, they've taken her and she did say those things but they were, you know, later as far as I'm aware, I didn't hear anything suggesting anyone had taken her at that point and initially, you know, the, the hope and the automatic response was really that, that she had wandered away, erm, you know, I, pretty soon after, I was hearing the words, you know, they've taken her and that the window was open, the shutter was open, erm, and all that that implied, but those weren't her first words and her first implication wasn't that'.



http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 09:20:26 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Iggy68

Re: Myths revealed in the Madeleine McCann case
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2013, 09:28:52 PM »
We know from the statements given by the others that when Kate arrived back at the tapas bar at 10pm she uttered the words, "She's gone Gerry, Madeleine's gone".

The full text of the interview conducted by DC 1485 MESSIAH with Fiona Payne as follows...

1485
'And what did she say when she came back''

 
Reply
' 'She's gone Gerry, Madeleine's gone', I'm hundred per cent about that'.

 
 
1485
'And we've discussed how she looked, she looked shocked and'.

 
Reply
'She was just frantic'.

 
 
1485
'Frantic. Were you shocked by her words''

 
Reply
'Absolutely, I mean I didn't, it was so sort of out of context of the evening and the holiday, initially it was, it, I mean it was just pure, you know, the words sinking in, the shock, the horror of what, what that might mean and I know those are her first words, I know there's been a lot of reported since about people saying, you know, they've taken her and she did say those things but they were, you know, later as far as I'm aware, I didn't hear anything suggesting anyone had taken her at that point and initially, you know, the, the hope and the automatic response was really that, that she had wandered away, erm, you know, I, pretty soon after, I was hearing the words, you know, they've taken her and that the window was open, the shutter was open, erm, and all that that implied, but those weren't her first words and her first implication wasn't that'.



http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

 
Could "She's gone Gerry, Madeleine's gone"  mean she had died ?
 
Why would Kate have gone back to the tapas bar to tell Gerry that when surely a frantic parent would have yelled and screamed at the top of their voice ?....