Questions about the nannies

[Robittybob1]

Here's some questions:
1. Did all the creche workers speak fluent English?
2. If not, which ones were they?
3. Which were their home countries?
4. Did their statements have to be translated?
5. If so, who translated them?
6. Who took all the original statements?
7. Did they all match up with one another?
8. If not, in what way?
9. Was Robert Murat present at these interviews?
10. What languages does Robert Murat speak?

[John]

Here's some questions:
1. Did all the creche workers speak fluent English?
2. If not, which ones were they?
3. Which were their home countries?
4. Did their statements have to be translated?
5. If so, who translated them?
6. Who took all the original statements?
7. Did they all match up with one another?
8. If not, in what way?
9. Was Robert Murat present at these interviews?
10. What languages does Robert Murat speak?

Do we even know if ALL the nannies were actually formally questioned?

[G-Unit]

According to Donna Hill on 4th May;

all these employees are English nationals and that they came to work in Portugal from
March/April until November; that there are 13 people who work in the creche, their names and telephone numbers being as follows: [NOTE: Phone numbers withheld]
- Pauline Francis M.
- Emma Louise W.
- Sarah Elizabeth W.
- Susan bernadette O.
- Leanne Danielle W.
- Shinead Maria V.
- Jacqueline Mary W.
- Kirsty Louise M.
- Lynne R.F.
- Catriona Treasa Sisile B.
- Stacey P.
- Lyndsay Jayne J.
- Amy Ellen T.

[G-Unit]

According to Donna Hill on 4th May;

all these employees are English nationals and that they came to work in Portugal from
March/April until November; that there are 13 people who work in the creche, their names and telephone numbers being as follows: [NOTE: Phone numbers withheld]

07/05/2007 - Pauline Francis M.
07/05/2007- Emma Louise W.   
06/05/2007 - Sarah Elizabeth W.
07/05/2007 - Susan bernadette O.
05/05/2007 - Leanne Danielle W.
07/05.2007 - Shinead Maria V.
08/05/2007 - Jacqueline Mary W.
07/05/2007 - Kirsty Louise M.
07/05/2007 - Lynne R.F.
06/05/2007; 10/05/2007; 18/04/2008 - Catriona Treasa Sisile B.
06/05/2007- Stacey P.
06/06/2007 - Lyndsay Jayne J.
06/05/2007; 17/04/2008 - Amy Ellen T.

I have added the statement dates to the above list, which is missing Charlotte Pennington I notice. So 14, not 13 working in childcare.

07/05/2007 - Charlotte Pennington.

[Robittybob1]

I have added the statement dates to the above list, which is missing Charlotte Pennington I notice. So 14, not 13 working in childcare.

07/05/2007 - Charlotte Pennington.

Several mention there were 11 nannies that covered the roster to do the night creche.  Why would they repeatedly mention this fact but never define who these people were? Do you know who they were?

[Eleanor]

This is all very silly.  And nothing to be proven.  Who do you think these nannies actually were?  A bunch of child traffickers?

[Robittybob1]

This is all very silly.  And nothing to be proven.  Who do you think these nannies actually were?  A bunch of child traffickers?

The conclusions I came to from trying to answer those questions were. 
1.  There is an important inconsistency that arises relating to Amy Tierney. Is it Amy who informs Lyndsay or is it Lyndsay who informs Amy that Madeleine is missing? 

It isn't until you read Lyndsay's statement it becomes clear that Lyndsay is informed by Amy. So the three statements interpreted by RM that have it written ambiguously actually have it wrong once they are re-translated back to English in the PJ files. Example "- She advised the aforementioned individual that no one had told them of the disappearance, who she believed by the name given, was Madeleine, also for the reason that Amy contacted via telephone her supervisor, Lyndsay, who informed her that Madeleine had indeed disappeared; " http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm

2.  The other thing that becomes obvious when reading enough of these nanny statements in a series is that they are asked questions of which they have really no actual knowledge and they give pat answers.
 Example of that is "She states that the distance between the McCann's apartment and the restaurant was two minutes by foot and that there was no visual contact of the room where Madeleine slept. From the restaurant only the front windows could be seen." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/.../LEANNE-DANIELLE..

Compare that with Amy's statement "She states that the distance between the apartment and the restaurant where Madeleine's parents were was 30 seconds by foot away but that there was no visual contact with the back window of the bedroom where Madeleine was. From the restaurant just the front window of the apartment could be seen." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

3.  You end up with two very similar worded sentences which say more about the person writing the statement rather than the person making the statement.

[Brietta]

The conclusions I came to from trying to answer those questions were. 
1.  There is an important inconsistency that arises relating to Amy Tierney. Is it Amy who informs Lyndsay or is it Lyndsay who informs Amy that Madeleine is missing? 

It isn't until you read Lyndsay's statement it becomes clear that Lyndsay is informed by Amy. So the three statements interpreted by RM that have it written ambiguously actually have it wrong once they are re-translated back to English in the PJ files. Example "- She advised the aforementioned individual that no one had told them of the disappearance, who she believed by the name given, was Madeleine, also for the reason that Amy contacted via telephone her supervisor, Lyndsay, who informed her that Madeleine had indeed disappeared; " http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CHARLOTTE-PENNINGTON.htm

2.  The other thing that becomes obvious when reading enough of these nanny statements in a series is that they are asked questions of which they have really no actual knowledge and they give pat answers.
 Example of that is "She states that the distance between the McCann's apartment and the restaurant was two minutes by foot and that there was no visual contact of the room where Madeleine slept. From the restaurant only the front windows could be seen." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/.../LEANNE-DANIELLE..

Compare that with Amy's statement "She states that the distance between the apartment and the restaurant where Madeleine's parents were was 30 seconds by foot away but that there was no visual contact with the back window of the bedroom where Madeleine was. From the restaurant just the front window of the apartment could be seen." http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm

3.  You end up with two very similar worded sentences which say more about the person writing the statement rather than the person making the statement.

The PJ set up an operations HQ in one of the apartments in block 6 did they not?  Given the complexities and the scale of the inquiry and the language difficulties involved I think it would have made good sense to have set aside an interview area equipped with at the very least audio recording facilities.

In that way there may have been many less 'discrepancies' in statements; although I am never quite sure what these all important discrepancies actually were; confusion between what was the front door and what was the back ~ "poolside and car park side" ~ is just confusion in my opinion, hardly discrepancy.

In Britain police use large vans as control rooms at major incidents ... why not one of those in Praia da Luz?  With the exception of Mrs Murat's effort and Jane Tanner being put in the back of a van for in lieu of a line-up are all I have seen mentioned?
Which incidentally I have never heard the like of a civilian setting up shop at a major police incident to interview witnesses. Very strange.

[G-Unit]

Several mention there were 11 nannies that covered the roster to do the night creche.  Why would they repeatedly mention this fact but never define who these people were? Do you know who they were?

Only two people mention 11 Childcare staff; Leanne Wagstaff and Amy Tierney. I'm not sure if they mean that's all the staff or just the staff who did the dinner service rota.

Sinead Vine says there were 15 Childcare staff, she says they were all on the dinner service rota..

All three of the above say there was no Childcare on Sundays except for the dinner service.

Donna Hill said 13 staff, but mentioned 14 names.

The PJ say they interviewed 15 childcare workers. The question mark seems to have been added by the translator, it's not on the original;

In addition, formal questioning was made of English employees most involved, from the MW company -?15 child care workers and two tennis instructors.........Total of individuals questioned was 143, 15 of which were names corresponding to child care workers or 'nannies'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MW_STAFF.htm

There's a list on the above page and these names appear. The 14 bolded names were interviewed, the rest don't seem to have been.

Elizabeth Miles Ocean Club nanny;
Mark Shult Ocean Club nanny;
Sarah Jane Tily Ocean Club nanny;
Jackie McConnel OC nanny.”
Lyndsay J
Amy T
Cat B
Lynn F
Kirsty M
Susan O
Sinead V
Emma W
Jacqueline W
Leanne W
Pauline Mc
Charlotte P
Sarah W
Stacy P

[Robittybob1]

It always amazes me how many spelling errors there are.
Lyndsay J   LINDSAY JOHNSTON CRECHE SUPER 06-05-07 (error in spelling first name)
Amy T  AMY ELLEN TIERNEY CRECHE 05 JUNE 2007  (error in date)
Cat B  CATRIONA BAKER STATEMENT 06-05-07  " That on the May 03, 2007, at around 22H45, she was in the bar known as ?Mirage? together with her colleagues, whose names are Emma, Shinead, Najoua Hayley and Stacy, which is situated close to the perimeter of the aforementioned resort. After returning from the bathroom, she was informed by her colleague Hayley that a child, of about 3 years of age, and whom was staying at the Ocean Club, had disappeared; "

Lynn F LYNNE R.FRETTER CHILD EDUCATOR 07-05-07  "On 3rd May 2007 at about 23.30, when she was at her apartment, with Cat, who also lives there, she was told by Leanne that Maddie had disappeared and that nobody had been able to find her.

Kirsty M (KIRSTY MARYAN CHILD EDUCATOR 07 MAY 07) 
Susan O  (SUSAN OWEN INFANT EDUCATOR 07 MAY 07) 
Sinead V SHINEAD VINE TODDLERS 1/2 17 MAY 07)  Error in date statement taken.
Emma W (EMMA WILDING MINI CLUB STATEMENT)
Jacqueline W
Leanne W  (LEANNE WAGSTAFF TODDLERS 06 MAY 07)
Pauline Mc  PAULINE MCCANN INF EDUCATOR 07 MAY 07  Not on the roster??
Charlotte P (CHARLOTTE PENNINGTON INTERVIEW)
Sarah W (SARA WILLIAMSON TODDLERS2 06 MAY 07)  Error in first name.  "On 3rd May at about 22.30 after having left the apartment where she was living, near to the resort, together with two of her colleagues, Leanne and Kirsty, she met her colleague Amy."
Stacy P  STACY POTZ KIDS CLUB STAFF INTERVIEW   Error in Surname actually Portz. (did not mention the search)

Shinead get the distance completely wrong "Affirms that the distance between the apartment and the restaurant where Madeleine McCanns parents ate was about 3 minutes by foot, but does not know which room Madeleine was in, if it was at the back or front of the apartments. From the restaurant one can only see the front (patio) window of the apartments; "

It seems that the colleague called Hayley is not interviewed.

[G-Unit]

There were two Hayleys. One was a Hayley May Crawford, but her statement says she was in Lagos with her boyfriend.  The other was Hayley Aldridge, Viva sports massage. Was she the one mentioned? Perhaps she was with Najoua, as they were in similar roles.

Where the nannies say they were that night;

Amy T, Charlotte P and Jacqueline Williams; night creche.
Cat B and Lynn F;                                      in their apartment sleeping.
Lyndsay J;                                                 in her residence.
Susan O, Sinead V and Stacey P;                 Mirage Bar
Kirsty M, Leanne W and Sarah W;                on their way to a bar.
Pauline Mc;                                               doesn't say.

[misty]

Only two people mention 11 Childcare staff; Leanne Wagstaff and Amy Tierney. I'm not sure if they mean that's all the staff or just the staff who did the dinner service rota.

Sinead Vine says there were 15 Childcare staff, she says they were all on the dinner service rota..

All three of the above say there was no Childcare on Sundays except for the dinner service.

Donna Hill said 13 staff, but mentioned 14 names.

The PJ say they interviewed 15 childcare workers. The question mark seems to have been added by the translator, it's not on the original;

In addition, formal questioning was made of English employees most involved, from the MW company -?15 child care workers and two tennis instructors.........Total of individuals questioned was 143, 15 of which were names corresponding to child care workers or 'nannies'.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MW_STAFF.htm

There's a list on the above page and these names appear. The 14 bolded names were interviewed, the rest don't seem to have been.

Elizabeth Miles Ocean Club nanny;
Mark Shult Ocean Club nanny;
Sarah Jane Tily Ocean Club nanny;
Jackie McConnel OC nanny.”
Lyndsay J
Amy T
Cat B
Lynn F
Kirsty M
Susan O
Sinead V
Emma W
Jacqueline W
Leanne W
Pauline Mc
Charlotte P
Sarah W
Stacy P

The first 4 names on your list were early leavers, i.e before 1/5.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/01_VOLUME_Ia_prosesso_page104.jpg

[Alice Purjorick]

The PJ set up an operations HQ in one of the apartments in block 6 did they not?  Given the complexities and the scale of the inquiry and the language difficulties involved I think it would have made good sense to have set aside an interview area equipped with at the very least audio recording facilities.

In that way there may have been many less 'discrepancies' in statements; although I am never quite sure what these all important discrepancies actually were; confusion between what was the front door and what was the back ~ "poolside and car park side" ~ is just confusion in my opinion, hardly discrepancy.

In Britain police use large vans as control rooms at major incidents ... why not one of those in Praia da Luz?  With the exception of Mrs Murat's effort and Jane Tanner being put in the back of a van for in lieu of a line-up are all I have seen mentioned?
Which incidentally I have never heard the like of a civilian setting up shop at a major police incident to interview witnesses. Very strange.

It wouldn't happen here so why do you believe it was somehow lax that it did not occur in Portugal?
Check out the CPS information on when, how and why recordings are used.

[G-Unit]

The first 4 names on your list were early leavers, i.e before 1/5.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/01_VOLUME_Ia_prosesso_page104.jpg

How confusing!

Jackie McConnel isn't on the list you linked to.

There is, however, a new name; Rhiannon Groves.

The leaving dates are not really able to be seen, unfortunately.

[Brietta]

It wouldn't happen here so why do you believe it was somehow lax that it did not occur in Portugal?
Check out the CPS information on when, how and why recordings are used.

Did I say lax?  Nope.  You said that.

Did I say I thought it would have made good sense ... yup.

Discussion of that point could have started either with your agreement and why ... or why you disagreement, and why.

Just a bit of an irrelevance though since it did not happen ... water under the bridge and all that.

Veering slightly in the direction of the thread topic ...

The anomaly I did note was: " ... I have never heard the like of a civilian setting up shop at a major police incident to interview witnesses."
I read it somewhere the information and statements gleaned in this way were passed to Robert Murat to pass on to the authorities.  I've seen nothing about that in the police files.

For all we know there could have been a hive of information there about not only the nannies but other employees as well.  Have you seen anything anywhere specifically about the content of Mrs Murat's endeavour?