Author Topic: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.  (Read 853623 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4020 on: December 08, 2015, 04:11:04 PM »
Well you can always post a translated version of the judgement that meets with your approval so we can see.
I have asked others to do so but they have failed dismally to do so.

You have claimed that all of the claims against the other three defendants have been dismissed.   Can you offer a cite for that?


ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4021 on: December 08, 2015, 04:24:18 PM »
She struck out the claims which related to Madeleine, and the twins, as they did not suffer damage to reputation.

She admitted the claims in respect of KM and GM, as they had suffered damage

As I said above, under Portuguese Law, an honestly held belief may be a valid defense against an action for libel as can right to freedom of expression.  However, by virtue of his position as a former police officer, Amaral was obliged to keep his mouth shut.

 
Amaral based his defense on his right to freedom of expression, (art 37, 1 and 2) forgetting both (art 37, 3 and 4) 

If you want to get technical about it, this was resolving the tension between Article 484 of the civil code (Article 484 - Who affirms or spreads a fact capable of harming the credit or good name of any individual or collective person, is liable for damages.) and article 37 of the constitution paragraphs 1 and 2.

And yes Stephen, we will see what the appeal holds.

Interesting.

He may not have libelled Madeleine or the twins.  But he certainly (at the very least heedlessly risked) damaging the twins; also Madeleine (if she is found alive) by straining the relationship of trust between parents and siblings.  |f the twins actually come to think that Mummy and Daddy did something nefarious to their older sister; or even are culpable by neglect for what happened to her (perhaps, actually, more likely).

In that sense, I suppose (at least part of) proceedings could be thought of as a damages trial, with the damages element struck out by the judge, and just libel left ...

« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 04:27:04 PM by ferryman »

Offline jassi

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4022 on: December 08, 2015, 04:31:35 PM »
Is it possible to libel a child, or does the law only apply to adults ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4023 on: December 08, 2015, 04:40:25 PM »
Is it possible to libel a child, or does the law only apply to adults ?

Interesting question.

Don't see why the law shouldn't apply to children, although the extent of damage to reputation may not be the same as for an adult.

Offline Brietta

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4024 on: December 08, 2015, 05:27:48 PM »
Is it possible to libel a child, or does the law only apply to adults ?

I've never really given it much thought before and have no idea what the legal situation might be.  The age of criminal responsibility in Scotland is eight years and in the rest of the UK ten (I think).

However Police Scotland have reported children as young as three for criminal offences, so everything is possible. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27614288
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4025 on: December 08, 2015, 05:31:56 PM »
I've never really given it much thought before and have no idea what the legal situation might be.  The age of criminal responsibility in Scotland is eight years and in the rest of the UK ten (I think).

However Police Scotland have reported children as young as three for criminal offences, so everything is possible. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27614288

I'm sure you can libel a child...but the twins were not libelled

Offline Brietta

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4026 on: December 08, 2015, 05:49:39 PM »
I'm sure you can libel a child...but the twins were not libelled

If you think about it logically I am sure you must be able to and I agree that no-one libelled the twins ... however I am firmly of the opinion that belief in and promotion of Mr Amaral's theory damaged the search for Madeleine.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4027 on: December 08, 2015, 06:12:19 PM »
If you think about it logically I am sure you must be able to and I agree that no-one libelled the twins ... however I am firmly of the opinion that belief in and promotion of Mr Amaral's theory damaged the search for Madeleine.

It damaged the search for Madeleine.

But it didn't damage the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, because the investigation was shelved before the book was made available to the public.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4028 on: December 08, 2015, 06:52:08 PM »
If you think about it logically I am sure you must be able to and I agree that no-one libelled the twins ... however I am firmly of the opinion that belief in and promotion of Mr Amaral's theory damaged the search for Madeleine.

Opinion means nothing. Not proven.
Read and abide by the forum rules.
Result = happy posting.
Ignore and break the rules
Result = edits, deletions and unhappiness
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=2.0

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4029 on: December 08, 2015, 07:18:20 PM »
You have claimed that all of the claims against the other three defendants have been dismissed.   Can you offer a cite for that?

Well you can look at the translation on here. If you think like others it is suspect then look at the Portuguese document on Pamalam and translate it on google translate yourself. At the time of the judgement a google translate version was posted on here.
The other three defendants were not ordered to pay out a plug nickel in compensation.
 
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4030 on: December 08, 2015, 08:11:50 PM »
Well you can look at the translation on here. If you think like others it is suspect then look at the Portuguese document on Pamalam and translate it on google translate yourself. At the time of the judgement a google translate version was posted on here.
The other three defendants were not ordered to pay out a plug nickel in compensation.

This one will do fine

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/v01.htm


McCanns original requests of the court in respect of the other three defendants:

The claimants argued that the 2nd defendant is the publisher of the book "Maddie The Truth of the Lie", the 3rd defendant is the producer of the program / documentary that was broadcast by the 4th TV channel which explores and holds the exclusivity for Portugal .Based on the same facts and grounds they requested :

I. The ban on the sale and order to gather, for destruction , the books and videos "Maddie - The Truth of the Lie" that still remained in bookstores or other retail points, warehouses, naming their mandatory (Dra Duarte) as faithful depository, all defendants having to be notified for that recollection ;
 
Page 05

II. The prohibition to all defendants to implement, even on the Web, new editions of the book or video or other books and/or videos that defend the same thesis and are intended to be commercialised or divulged in Portugal,

III. The prohibition to all defendants to transfer onerously or freely, in any way, the publishing rights or copyright on the book's or the video's contents, or other books and videos about the same theme, to be published anywhere in the world,

IV. The prohibition to all defendants and by any means, including the Web, to cite, analyse or comment, expressed or implied, oral or written, parts of the book or video that defend the thesis of the death of the 3rd claimant or of the concealment of her body, in any part of the world,

V. The prohibition to all defendants and by any means, including the Web, to provide or reproduce comment, opinion or interview where this thesis is defended or could be inferred,

VI. The prohibition to all defendants to transfer, publish and provide statements, photographs or other documentation related to the book, video or the thesis, by any possible means, including the Web,

VI (sic). The sentence for the defendants to publish the convicting judgement, in extract, at their own expense, for two consecutive days, in one of the most widely read newspapers in Portugal and one of the most widely read daily newspapers in the UK and, as well, to publish such a convicting judgement, in extract and only once, in one of the most widely read weekly magazines in Portugal and in the United Kingdom, at the choice of the claimants, in the 15 days immediately following the Res Judicata (1)
VII. The sentence for the defendants to pay a deterrent penalty for the circumstances mentioned of an amount not less than 100.000 € for each act of non-compliance of the prohibitions or of order of seizing the books and videos,

VII (sic). The sentence for the defendants to pay the costs of the trial, including the fees of the claimants'

The judgement of the court:

 V. judge partly proceeding the demands expressed in the attached action by the claimants KATE MARIE HEALY MCCANN and GERALD PATRICK MCCANN against the defendants GONCALO AMARAL, GUERRA&PAZ,EDITORES,SA and VC–VALENTIM DE CARVALHO-FILMES, AUDIOVISUAIS, SA, and to that extent :
a) prohibit the defendants Goncalo Amaral and Guerra&Paz Editores, SA of selling the book Maddie – A Verdade da Mentira and condemn them to collect, for delivery to the claimants, within sixty (60) days after the res judicata (definitive sentence), the copies of this book that still remain in book-stores, other retail outlets, and warehouses.
 
Page 51

b) prohibit the defendants Goncalo Amaral and Guerra&Paz Editores, SA of executing new editions of the same book.

c) prohibit the defendant VC–Valentim de Carvalho-Filmes, Audiovisuais, SA of executing new editions of the DVD Maddie – A Verdade da Mentira,

d) prohibit the defendants Goncalo Amaral, Guerra&Paz Editores, SA and VC–Valentim de Carvalho-Filmes, Audiovisuais, SA, respectively, of transferring, onerously or freely, any form of copyright and rights for book and DVD publication,

e) condemn each of these defendants, to the penalty payment of 50.000 € for each breach of the above prohibitions.

VI. Over the remaining part, dismiss the requests made in the action attached by the claimants KATE MARIE HEALY MACCANN and GERALD PATRICK MACCANN against the defendants GONÇALO AMARAL, GUERRA&PAZ, EDITORES, SA and VC–VALENTIM DE CARVALHO-FILMES, AUDIOVISUAIS, SA and of the same claims acquit the defendants.

VII. Fully dismiss the claims made in the attached action against the defendant TVI-INDEPENDENT TELEVISION, SA, and of those claims acquit the defendant.

__________________






« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 08:54:27 PM by Slartibartfast »

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4031 on: December 08, 2015, 09:07:04 PM »
but you are only quoting from one

Mainly because Google Translate tends to translate into Neo Melanesian* rather than English.

*That's PCspeke for Pidgin
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline mercury

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4032 on: December 08, 2015, 09:19:30 PM »
So Funny how all the people who complain about translation errors left right and centre actually quote from the "amateurish" translated files all the time to back up their arguments

Hypocritics r us




Offline misty

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4033 on: December 08, 2015, 09:46:26 PM »
So Funny how all the people who complain about translation errors left right and centre actually quote from the "amateurish" translated files all the time to back up their arguments

Hypocritics r us

No, Mercury - the amateurish translated files are all any of us have to use. He who pretends otherwise is the hypocrite.

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Gonçalo Amaral confirms he will appeal the damages decision to higher Court.
« Reply #4034 on: December 08, 2015, 09:47:59 PM »
So Funny how all the people who complain about translation errors left right and centre actually quote from the "amateurish" translated files all the time to back up their arguments

Hypocritics r us

Who has been complaining about translation errors?  Do enlighten me, please.