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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => US and Australian missing children and child kidnapping cases. => Topic started by: carlymichelle on February 07, 2016, 06:59:35 PM

Title: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: carlymichelle on February 07, 2016, 06:59:35 PM
Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects

(http://i.imgur.com/VFkGRjm.jpg?1)

By Andrew Koubaridis
8 February 2016

Toddler DeOrr Kunz has not been seen since going missing from a campsite at Idaho Falls on July 10 last year.
Andrew Koubaridisnews.com.au

(http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/bbba14af1102e4fbae112741e4a9138d)
Anguish ... The parents of DeOrr Kunz speak to media.   

THE tears look real. So does the pain on their faces. But is this couple hiding a terrible secret?

Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr have been in the international spotlight ever since their little boy, DeOrr Kunz Jr, vanished from a remote campsite in Idaho on July 10 last year.

They have given interviews, launched appeals and openly begged members of the public to come forward with information.

“Who would harm us this way?” the missing toddler’s mother asked. “Especially knowing how much he means to us. He’s everything to us,” she told the local East Idaho News.

“If somebody has him please don’t hurt him. Just bring him home safely where he belongs.”

They spoke a lot. Not just to media, but to police. Unsurprising, given their two-year-old son was missing, but then police noticed their versions of events began to change.

With suspicions mounting, police asked them to do lie-detector tests and this week revealed the couple had been “less than truthful”.

It isn’t the first time the parents have been accused. On the internet, amateur sleuths have speculated that Ms Williams didn’t appear to be mourning enough, and in their community rumours have swirled the couple were somehow responsible for DeOrr Jnr’s disappearance.

Speculation of this kind is not that out of the ordinary. In fact, it seems almost predictable in cases like this.

Then the bombshell.

“They’re not able to tell the same story twice because they’ve told so many stories,” County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told KTVB-TV. “We’re getting changes in the stories all the time.”
DeOrr Kunz.

(http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/3df050ef69a9fef4664c9279186ebd85) (http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/23cb84b9fd9027849d7f56d0447dbc80)

Sheriff Bowerman then said police believed the couple knew what happened to their son, and named them as suspects.

There has been a flurry of activity in recent days. Detectives have re-interviewed the parents and other witnesses and FBI investigators have also joined local police as they try to bring an end to the seven-month mystery.

No clothing or blood has been found and the parents have co-operated fully throughout the inquiry.

Despite the behind the scenes work — which exploded into the public eye with Sheriff Bowerman’s startling comments — it doesn’t seem likely any arrests are imminent.

The New York Daily News reported police were focusing on finding DeOrr. The parents say they last saw him when they left him with his maternal grandfather and a friend to go on a walk.

The grandfather thought he was with his parents — meaning there is a 20-minute window for whatever happened to DeOrr to have taken place.

“We decided we were gonna do a little exploring,” Mr Kunz Sr told reporters. “It’s such a small area — that’s what a lot of people don’t understand. They just assume, ‘How could you let your kid out of your sight?’ Well, this area is pretty well blocked in and there’s no way you couldn’t not see him.”

(http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/124affa0bdf467bdae0c3920071e7937)
DeOrr Kunz, pictured with mum Jessica Mitchell.

His partner was adamant she knew what happened to her son. She believed he had been abducted.

“He doesn’t go anywhere without his blanket, his cup or his monkey. All three of them were left at the campground.”

There has been little privacy for the family since then, as their every move has been studied by the public and police.

Last month, Mr Kunz Snr took to Facebook to share his despair.

“Six months since he stood next a picnic table and I heard his little voice and that was the last moment my life went from great to upside down … that little boy taught me how to be a man to love and care and happiness I miss my son every minute of everyday. I just want my amazing son back and my great life to continue daddy misses and loves you goobs,” he wrote.

The family hired Texas-based Klein Investigations and Consulting to investigate what happened. In a recent report, the private investigators said they ruled out on theory — that of a wild animal attack — and abduction.

But they did not rule out an accidental death or “death with intent”. In short, there was very little they could say with certainty other than DeOrr was dead.

“We’ve reconstructed this case from the ground up,” CEO Philip Klein said. “We’ve concluded this: it didn’t just pop out of the air.”

So where is he then?

Reports from Ms Williams and others about the sighting of a mystery black jeep were dismissed by Mr Klein as a distraction.

A complicating factor is the family friend, Isaac Reinwand, who was with the grandfather at the time DeOrr was last seen. He won’t be interviewed by the private investigators and has hired a lawyer to represent him.

“He is very important in this case. We need to interview Isaac, we believe he has info that will help this case,” he told the Post Register.

Not everyone is happy with the parents being named as suspects. DeOrr Kunz shares the same last name as his son and grandson and has told of his anger at police for directing their energy at his family.

“Losing a baby is enough to tear anybody apart,” the 70-year-old told People. “The browbeating that they’ve been going through with the law enforcement is too much.”

He accused police of just wanting the case “to go away”.

That might be wishful thinking, because until DeOrr is found there will be a lot more scrutiny on this mother and father.


http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/twist-in-case-of-missing-twoyearold-deorr-kunz-jr-as-parents-named-suspects/news-story/2bdcd8daafeb4d338d92f21a6ca53eb3?utm_content=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Facebook#itm=newscomau|home|nca-homepage-topstories|1|link|homepage|homepage&itmt=1454842353768

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Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 08, 2016, 01:12:01 AM
This 2-yr old left behind his comfort blanket and cuddly toy monkey, which he usually took everywhere.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 08, 2016, 02:09:10 AM
This 2-yr old left behind his comfort blanket and cuddly toy monkey, which he usually took everywhere.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/isaac-reinwand-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-deorrs-disappearance/

I've followed this case since the beginning. Reinwand won't speak with the PI's. He has a criminal record.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Admin on February 08, 2016, 02:30:16 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/isaac-reinwand-i-had-nothing-to-do-with-deorrs-disappearance/

I've followed this case since the beginning. Reinwand won't speak with the PI's. He has a criminal record.

I am really surprised that Madeleine McCann wasn't mentioned once in the opening article given the similarities between the cases.  One could be forgiven for referring to the case as Idaho's Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 08, 2016, 02:34:38 AM
I am really surprised that Madeleine McCann wasn't mentioned once in the opening article given the similarities between the cases.  One could be forgiven for referring to the case as Idaho's Madeleine McCann.

It's more like Australia's William Tyrrell.  Both outside, surrounded by dangerous territory, now you see him now you don't.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Admin on February 08, 2016, 02:50:01 AM
Isn't it interesting that Lemhi County Sheriff Chief Deputy Steve Penner who in July 2015 went from pleading with the public to stop speculating on the innocence of the boy's family, who he said have been cooperative with police and are not suspects to County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman now saying that police believe the couple knew what happened to their son, and named them as suspects.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3165519/Police-continue-search-toddler-disappeared-Idaho-campsite.html#ixzz3zXZQYR78

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 08, 2016, 03:01:54 AM
Isn't it interesting that Lemhi County Sheriff Chief Deputy Steve Penner who in July 2015 went from pleading with the public to stop speculating on the innocence of the boy's family, who he said have been cooperative with police and are not suspects to County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman now saying that police believe the couple knew what happened to their son, and named them as suspects.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3165519/Police-continue-search-toddler-disappeared-Idaho-campsite.html#ixzz3zXZQYR78

The parents haven't been arrested & the Sheriff has refused to say what evidence, if any, there is against them other than inconsistencies in their accounts. The parents & Reinwand took FBI lie-detector tests. The FBI has so far publicly not disclosed the results of Reinwand's test.
Before anyone asks - the cadaver dogs have inspected the campsite where Deorr was last seen.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Montclair on February 08, 2016, 08:26:40 AM
"Who would harm us this way?" I find this a strange thing for the mother to say and rather narcissistic. She only speaks of her son's disappearance in how it affects her and her husband, not in relation to the victim.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: stephen25000 on February 08, 2016, 08:29:21 AM
"Who would harm us this way?" I find this a strange thing for the mother to say and rather narcissistic. She only speaks of her son's disappearance in how it affects her and her husband, not in relation to the victim.

That narcissism is visible elsewhere.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 08, 2016, 12:43:39 PM
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Eleanor on February 08, 2016, 01:02:47 PM

These people are still Innocent until Proven Guilty.  This is a Fundamental Right.  Let us remember this.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Eleanor on February 08, 2016, 01:05:08 PM

Wolves, eh?

Lindy Chamberlaine was convicted of Murder, when it was later proved that a Dingo had taken the baby, but it took several years to prove this.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 09, 2016, 12:14:47 AM
A sensitive point is a truck being driven away by one person, before the 911 calls.
 
This is the only case where I have seen really good statement analysis.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 13, 2016, 04:18:29 AM
"I was in the truck hauling down to the road"

Why exactly?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 13, 2016, 12:51:48 PM
"I was in the truck hauling down to the road"

Why exactly?

To get a signal on his mobile phone so the police could be called.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 13, 2016, 07:48:16 PM
To get a signal on his mobile phone so the police could be called.
That was the reason given Misty...
The problem with it is, his mobile in fact did have a signal at the campsite itself.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 13, 2016, 09:16:35 PM
That was the reason given Misty...
The problem with it is, his mobile in fact did have a signal at the campsite itself.

His or hers? They both ended up on the phone to 911 at the same time in different locations. Depends on your network.
I haven't scrutinised the statements etc in detail just followed the newspaper reports.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 13, 2016, 09:32:19 PM
His or hers? They both ended up on the phone to 911 at the same time in different locations. Depends on your network.
I haven't scrutinised the statements etc in detail just followed the newspaper reports.
For now I'm only interested in one mobile: his, and yes it did have a signal at the campsite, he says so himself on video, "one bar". Doesn't that indicate to you that the true reason for driving might be unrelated to phone reception?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 13, 2016, 09:59:58 PM
For now I'm only interested in one mobile: his, and yes it did have a signal at the campsite, he says so himself on video, "one bar". Doesn't that indicate to you that the true reason for driving might be unrelated to phone reception?


.Without knowing his phone/network capabilities I wouldn't like to pass judgement based on that either way. Certainly I know that even in the UK, there are places even in major cities where there is never a signal strong enough to make or receive a call on certain networks.
The police could no doubt determine how long his phone was located at the place he made the call.
There may well have been an ulterior motive for the short trip in the truck. That would probably have entailed collusion. Perhaps I have more of the sceptic in me than I thought - I am struggling to see past leaving the child under the watchful eye of a convicted criminal & an elderly granddad.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 14, 2016, 12:21:41 AM
.Without knowing his phone/network capabilities I wouldn't like to pass judgement based on that either way. Certainly I know that even in the UK, there are places even in major cities where there is never a signal strong enough to make or receive a call on certain networks.
The police could no doubt determine how long his phone was located at the place he made the call.
There may well have been an ulterior motive for the short trip in the truck. That would probably have entailed collusion. Perhaps I have more of the sceptic in me than I thought - I am struggling to see past leaving the child under the watchful eye of a convicted criminal & an elderly granddad.
That phone definitely had a signal, at the campsite, as indicated by the signal indicator on the display, there is a video which states exactly that.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 14, 2016, 12:27:20 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/01/14-questions-you-wanted-us-to-ask-the-deorr-kunz-private-investigator/

*snipped*

Eaton: Lisa Marie says, “Is it true that Isaac disappeared for over an hour after DeOrr disappeared or is this just another rumor?”

Klein: Again, that goes into the actual investigative issues that we are investigating. We’re not wiling to discuss that at this time but I would classify that probably as not a rumor.

Eaton: Melissa asks, “Have the trunks of the vehicles been checked for scent or evidence?”

Klein: I’m not gonna comment on that whatsoever.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the benefit of anyone unfamiliar with the case, the parents & Deorr arrived at the campsite in one truck; the great-granddad & his friend Isaac were in another.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 14, 2016, 12:42:36 AM
(snip) ... probably as not a rumor ...(snip)

:)  But despite that, I think you're on the wrong track literally Misty, when you haven't explained why a vehicle drives away.
 
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 14, 2016, 12:49:11 AM
 8()-000(
Sorry, link now inserted.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 14, 2016, 02:22:33 AM
Here is the quote re mobile signal Misty
"I didn't think one bar would get it"
What do you make of that?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 14, 2016, 02:48:28 AM
Here is the quote re mobile signal Misty
"I didn't think one bar would get it"
What do you make of that?

It suggests to me that he didn't even try to make the call. Or he knew from previous experience that one bar signalled inadequate reception on his particular phone.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 14, 2016, 02:58:37 AM
It suggests to me that he didn't even try to make the call....(snip)
I agree, and its a known fact anyway
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 14, 2016, 03:05:08 AM
... Or he knew from previous experience that one bar signalled inadequate reception on his particular phone.
Disagree.
IMO the phone would work fine with one bar.
If you had one bar how many times would you try?
Zero?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 14, 2016, 03:20:51 AM
Disagree.
IMO the phone would work fine with one bar.

I can't argue as I detest mobile phones with a vengeance. Mine is rarely switched on, let alone used, but having just turned it on I got a "no signal" message for over 2 minutes. Now there are 4 bars. My brother-in-law & his wife have no reception inside their house on a mobile - they have to go into the garden.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-do-the-bars-on-your-smartphone-mean-we-asked-an-expert/
(happy reading & goodnight)



Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 14, 2016, 12:30:10 PM
Regarding the cremains.

Forensic Cremation recovery and analysis, Scott I Fairgrieve

'In my own experience, dogs trained specifically in the recognition of human decomposition scent can detect human cremated bone. Surprisingly, even cremated bone that is largely calcined (ie most organic components eliminated), can also be detected by properly trained canines.'
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Eleanor on February 14, 2016, 12:34:41 PM
Regarding the cremains.

Forensic Cremation recovery and analysis, Scott I Fairgrieve

'In my own experience, dogs trained specifically in the recognition of human decomposition scent can detect human cremated bone. Surprisingly, even cremated bone that is largely calcined (ie most organic components eliminated), can also be detected by properly trained canines.'

Properly Trained Canines.

I'm still going for Innocent until Proven Guilty
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: slartibartfast on February 14, 2016, 01:12:31 PM
Properly Trained Canines.

I'm still going for Innocent until Proven Guilty

Which is true in any court case.

Though in a forum we deal in uncertainties and probabilities and leave the proof to the police.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Eleanor on February 14, 2016, 01:18:24 PM
Which is true in any court case.

Though in a forum we deal in uncertainties and probabilities and leave the proof to the police.

But you would agree that we have to be a bit careful.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: slartibartfast on February 14, 2016, 01:25:34 PM
But you would agree that we have to be a bit careful.

Yes. As long as no one makes definitive statements over guilt or motive we are reasonably safe.

(waits for someone to push the boundaries)
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Eleanor on February 14, 2016, 01:31:17 PM
Yes. As long as no one makes definitive statements over guilt or motive we are reasonably safe.

(waits for someone to push the boundaries)

 8)--))
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 18, 2016, 05:57:24 PM
That was the reason given Misty...
The problem with it is, his mobile in fact did have a signal at the campsite itself.

Agreed. He said his phone had a signal, but not a good one, and he was worried that if he tried to make the call he would get cut off during the call to 911.
He also said his wife had a signal

Question: if his wife had a signal and was on the phone, why did he have to drive anywhere for a signal?.

Notes: Both on the phone at the same time? in different places? wonder why.

 It just goes to show even with the best of the best helecopters and police search and rescue  people can still not be found in a small area?!  Take note PJ  it would seem it was not your fault afterall.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 19, 2016, 11:56:00 PM
Agreed. He said his phone had a signal, but not a good one, and he was worried that if he tried to make the call he would get cut off during the call to 911.
He also said his wife had a signal

Question: if his wife had a signal and was on the phone, why did he have to drive anywhere for a signal?.

Notes: Both on the phone at the same time? in different places? wonder why.

 It just goes to show even with the best of the best helecopters and police search and rescue  people can still not be found in a small area?!  Take note PJ  it would seem it was not your fault afterall.
In the recording of the first call to 911, part way through you can hear another 911 operator recieving the second 911 call. Measure that time difference, multiply by estimated max speed on dirttrack, and that gives the distance driven by the second caller before calling.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: stephen25000 on February 23, 2016, 07:05:32 PM
Italian mother, 32, who claimed her two-month-old daughter had been snatched from London hotel admits killing her

Federica Boscolo-Gnolo reported that her daughter had been abducted

She had been staying in a central London hotel with two-month-old Farah

Mum has now pleaded guilty to manslaughter by diminished responsibility

The 32-year-old has been detained in a secure hospital to be sentenced

By MATT HUNTER FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 16:45, 22 February 2016 | UPDATED: 19:39, 22 February 20

Federica Boscolo-Gnolo (pictured) pleaded guilty to the manslaughter by diminished responsibility of two-month-old Farah between January 23 and 30 last year.


The 32-year-old, from northern Italy, who had been living and working in the UK since 2013, had initially reported her daughter had been abducted from a hotel

She had checked into the Lily Hotel near Earls Court on Saturday, January 24 with her daughter and a few possessions.

Later the same day, she checked out without Farah before contacting her parents in Italy.

They were concerned for their daughter and granddaughter's welfare and flew to London on Thursday, January 29, Scotland Yard said.

They took Boscolo-Gnolo, of no fixed address, to Hammersmith police station to report Farah missing but detectives later arrested the mother over the baby's disappearance.

Despite extensive searches at the hotel and the local rubbish dump, the little girl's body has never been found.

It is believed she disposed of the body in the Russell Square area, in central London.

At a short hearing before the Old Bailey, the defendant admitted killing her daughter but denied murder.

Prosecutor Jonathan Higgs QC told the court that her plea to the lesser charge was accepted in light of three psychiatric reports.

The Recorder of London Nicholas Hilliard QC adjourned sentencing until Friday, April 8.

The defendant, who spoke only to enter her plea, was remanded into a secure hospital.

She appeared in court flanked by mental health workers as members of her family followed proceedings through a translator.

Detective Inspector Jamie Stevenson said: 'This is a tragic case for all involved and Boscolo-Gnolo will have to live with her actions for the rest of her life.

'Farah had already been rejected by her father, who chose not to be a part of her life, she was then victim to the one person who should have protected her most.

'Boscolo-Gnolo's parents now have to come to terms with losing their daughter, and their granddaughter who they were just getting to know.'

Farah was born on November 22, 2014 in Chioggia, near Venice. Her mother brought her to the UK for medical treatment for a minor eye condition. 


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3458689/Italian-mother-32-claimed-two-month-old-daughter-snatched-London-hotel-admits-killing-her.html#ixzz411GCvtH6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 23, 2016, 07:45:42 PM
Italian mother, 32, who claimed her two-month-old daughter had been snatched from London hotel admits killing her

Federica Boscolo-Gnolo reported that her daughter had been abducted

She had been staying in a central London hotel with two-month-old Farah

Mum has now pleaded guilty to manslaughter by diminished responsibility

The 32-year-old has been detained in a secure hospital to be sentenced

By MATT HUNTER FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 16:45, 22 February 2016 | UPDATED: 19:39, 22 February 20

Federica Boscolo-Gnolo (pictured) pleaded guilty to the manslaughter by diminished responsibility of two-month-old Farah between January 23 and 30 last year.


The 32-year-old, from northern Italy, who had been living and working in the UK since 2013, had initially reported her daughter had been abducted from a hotel

She had checked into the Lily Hotel near Earls Court on Saturday, January 24 with her daughter and a few possessions.

Later the same day, she checked out without Farah before contacting her parents in Italy.

They were concerned for their daughter and granddaughter's welfare and flew to London on Thursday, January 29, Scotland Yard said.

They took Boscolo-Gnolo, of no fixed address, to Hammersmith police station to report Farah missing but detectives later arrested the mother over the baby's disappearance.

Despite extensive searches at the hotel and the local rubbish dump, the little girl's body has never been found.

It is believed she disposed of the body in the Russell Square area, in central London.

At a short hearing before the Old Bailey, the defendant admitted killing her daughter but denied murder.

Prosecutor Jonathan Higgs QC told the court that her plea to the lesser charge was accepted in light of three psychiatric reports.

The Recorder of London Nicholas Hilliard QC adjourned sentencing until Friday, April 8.

The defendant, who spoke only to enter her plea, was remanded into a secure hospital.

She appeared in court flanked by mental health workers as members of her family followed proceedings through a translator.

Detective Inspector Jamie Stevenson said: 'This is a tragic case for all involved and Boscolo-Gnolo will have to live with her actions for the rest of her life.

'Farah had already been rejected by her father, who chose not to be a part of her life, she was then victim to the one person who should have protected her most.

'Boscolo-Gnolo's parents now have to come to terms with losing their daughter, and their granddaughter who they were just getting to know.'

Farah was born on November 22, 2014 in Chioggia, near Venice. Her mother brought her to the UK for medical treatment for a minor eye condition. 


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3458689/Italian-mother-32-claimed-two-month-old-daughter-snatched-London-hotel-admits-killing-her.html#ixzz411GCvtH6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Well, I wonder how the police got that information out of her?  torture? I bet they asked her questions and stuff, and at one point accused her of harming her child!  like  you know some police officers do... Shame she can't reveal the whereabouts of her daughters body. poor wee mite.

 quote from Pegs,
"In the recording of the first call to 911, part way through you can hear another 911 operator recieving the second 911 call. Measure that time difference, multiply by estimated max speed on dirttrack, and that gives the distance driven by the second caller before calling".

I was coming from the angle of IF the wife had a signal and he knew she had a signal and could call the police why did he have to drive around to get a signal which he knew he didn't have?
OR putting it this way he could have said...  "I'll call 911  oh can't get  a signal you can ok you call them now"!

OK something not right with that bit? discsuss...
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 23, 2016, 08:03:59 PM
Well, I wonder how the police got that information out of her?  torture? I bet they asked her questions and stuff, and at one point accused her of harming her child!  like  you know some police officers do... Shame she can't reveal the whereabouts of her daughters body. poor wee mite.

 quote from Pegs,
"In the recording of the first call to 911, part way through you can hear another 911 operator recieving the second 911 call. Measure that time difference, multiply by estimated max speed on dirttrack, and that gives the distance driven by the second caller before calling".

I was coming from the angle of IF the wife had a signal and he knew she had a signal and could call the police why did he have to drive around to get a signal which he knew he didn't have?
OR putting it this way he could have said...  "I'll call 911  oh can't get  a signal you can ok you call them now"!

OK something not right with that bit? discsuss...

I believe she was still trying to get a signal as he drove off.
 It's impossible to determine the distance he drove from the timings of the phone calls. If they were trying to cover something up, the pair could have agreed to wait 20 minutes before almost simultaneously making a 911 call.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 23, 2016, 09:06:48 PM
I believe she was still trying to get a signal as he drove off.
 It's impossible to determine the distance he drove from the timings of the phone calls. If they were trying to cover something up, the pair could have agreed to wait 20 minutes before almost simultaneously making a 911 call.

I must have misunderstood that. I thought he said he couldn't get a signal his wife could... I am not accusing them of anything- just asking questions and commenting.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: ferryman on February 23, 2016, 09:22:19 PM
Unless I've missed something, so far, no bright spark has suggested any parallel with the Madeleine investigation.

Which is what this (part of) the board is set up to discuss.

Why is the thread on here?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 23, 2016, 11:25:38 PM
Unless I've missed something, so far, no bright spark has suggested any parallel with the Madeleine investigation.

Which is what this (part of) the board is set up to discuss.

Why is the thread on here?

Hazarding a guess, I think it's because there is now more than a suspicion itwastheparentswotdunit in the absence of a body in an unexplained disappearance.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 24, 2016, 12:01:06 AM
At 54 seconds the operator says "is your husband calling too?"
So his 911 call starts about 45 seconds into her 911 call.
This rules out the "theydunit" idea IMO
http://archive.hlntv.com/video/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-idaho-911-call
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 24, 2016, 12:17:15 AM
At 54 seconds the operator says "is your husband calling too?"
So his 911 call starts about 45 seconds into her 911 call.
This rules out the "theydunit" idea IMO
http://archive.hlntv.com/video/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-idaho-911-call

Maybe I'm thick, but I don't see how it proves there was no collusion. Do we know the couple couldn't see each other at the time the calls were made?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 24, 2016, 12:28:48 AM
Maybe I'm thick, but I don't see how it proves there was no collusion. Do we know the couple couldn't see each other at the time the calls were made?
If two people were colluding they would not collude to have one call 45s after the other.
IMO the call overlap rules out collusion between them.
Also the recorded call is completely genuine IMO.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 24, 2016, 01:05:00 AM
If two people were colluding they would not collude to have one call 45s after the other.
IMO the call overlap rules out collusion between them.
Also the recorded call is completely genuine IMO.

I'm not sure it proves anything either way, as Deorr had apparently been missing for an hour before they called 911.
Were they waiting for their camp-mate to re-appear?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 24, 2016, 02:38:04 AM
Expert analysis of mother's emergency phonecall
"There is nothing in the 911 call to suggest guilty knowledge on the part of the mother"
http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/statement-analysis-911-call-of-missing.html
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 26, 2016, 10:58:59 PM
Expert analysis of mother's emergency phonecall
"There is nothing in the 911 call to suggest guilty knowledge on the part of the mother"
http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/statement-analysis-911-call-of-missing.html

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/sheriff-discusses-deorr-kunz-jr-disappearance-and-case-of-baby/article_b4d359f2-0b13-55d2-9aec-178b359a5683.html


Sheriff discusses DeOrr Kunz Jr. disappearance and case of baby overdosing on meth
By Debbie Bryce For the Journal  Feb 23, 2016

*snipped*

“I was used to dealing with the press, but it was pretty overwhelming for a small office like mine,” Bowerman said. “It took all our resources. That’s why we ended up asking for assistance from the FBI.”

The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office employs seven deputies and the sheriff and a support staff of about 20 people.

Last month, Bowerman announced that the little boy’s parents, Jessica Mitchell and DeOrr Kunz Sr., were suspects in the case.

Bowerman said the couple has continually changed their stories, and they’ve failed polygraphs examinations.

“We know that the parents aren’t telling the truth, and they know that we know that they’re lying,” Bowerman said. “I know that they know where the little boy is and what happened to him.”

While he hopes the case is solved on his watch, Bowerman said he believes it will be some time before an arrest is made in the case.

“We really can’t say if anyone other than the parents know what happened to DeOrr,” Bowerman said.

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Voice analysis versus polygraph test. Wonder which is the more accurate?

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on February 27, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
(snip) Voice analysis versus polygraph test. Wonder which is the more accurate?
If correctly done, IMO it's a thousand times more accurate than a primitive polygraph Misty.
Expert PH states there is no indications in her 911 call.
He does find some in her other available material, however IMO there are explanations for those indications, different to involvement, so it's an NG from me.   
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 01, 2016, 01:37:05 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/02/kunz-private-investigator-issues/
  Updated at 6:17 pm, February 29th, 2016 By: EastIdahoNews.com staff

Nederland, TX -– This afternoon the Senior Civil Investigator Philip R. Klein, a private investigator working on the DeOrr Kunz, Jr. case, made the following statement :

“In November of 2015 KIC Texas accepted the case of the missing child Deorr Kunz, Jr., who went missing from a camp ground near Leadore, Idaho in July of 2015. There has been much speculation by the public, family members and the press regarding this young child’s disappearance. Today we announce to the public and media the closing of phase three of our case and our conclusions to date. The following are our conclusions regarding the case :

1) The conclusion by the civil investigation team of “what happened” to DeOrr Kunz, Jr. is officially death by accident/homicide.

2) The following persons are “persons of interest / suspects with direct knowledge.”

a) Vernal DeOrr Kunz
b) Jessica Mitchell
c) Robert “Bob” Walton

3) The investigation continues regarding Isaac Reinwand – as he has begun to cooperate with Investigators and has given a further statement. Those claims and proffers are being evaluated at this time.

The final phase of our investigation will be recovery. We believe through evidence and witness statements we will be able to recover a body in this case.

We continue to agree with Sheriff Bowerman and his statements of this past week as we too have had to deal with multiple stories and changes in facts by some of the witnesses whom were on the mountain during the timeline of events.

We further agree with the law enforcement teams from around the United States that are involved in this case – that both Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell know what happened on that mountain in July of 2015.

We want the public to know that we believe through evidence the family members of Kunz, Mitchell and Walton ARE NOT involved – however – we believe they are too close to their family members and are in denial. The evidence is very clear.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 02, 2016, 11:35:52 PM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/03/kunz-investigator-jessica-mitchell-knows-where-deorrs-body-is/




It seems this case will be resolved shortly. :(
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 03, 2016, 12:04:03 AM
Thanks Misty
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/03/kunz-investigator-jessica-mitchell-knows-where-deorrs-body-is/
"... there was a cadaver dog interaction with certain equipment at the site and that cadaver dog did hit positive. I can’t go any further than that other than we do have a dog that did hit in the initial two weeks of the primary investigation.... a cadaver dog did hit. That has never been announced before..."
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Eleanor on March 03, 2016, 12:10:02 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/03/kunz-investigator-jessica-mitchell-knows-where-deorrs-body-is/




It seems this case will be resolved shortly. :(

I can only hope that if that pile of rubbish is the best they can do, then they should all be sacked shortly.

If they ever get an indictment then they have just killed the case stone dead.  Jesus Christ Almighty.  Just how stupid are these Law Enforcement Officers?

Even I in my ignorance could wipe the floor with what they have just said.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 03, 2016, 12:13:19 AM
Thanks Misty
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/03/kunz-investigator-jessica-mitchell-knows-where-deorrs-body-is/
"... there was a cadaver dog interaction with certain equipment at the site and that cadaver dog did hit positive. I can’t go any further than that other than we do have a dog that did hit in the initial two weeks of the primary investigation.... a cadaver dog did hit. That has never been announced before..."

Yes, that is interesting as the alert must implicate one of the 4 suspects. I'm just surprised the police didn't seem to be actively pursuing this aspect during the intervening months & left the PI to make such an extraordinary announcement. Perhaps all is not as it seems & there really is a fear factor involved.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 03, 2016, 12:21:59 AM
Yes, that is interesting as the alert must implicate one of the 4 suspects. I'm just surprised the police didn't seem to be actively pursuing this aspect during the intervening months & left the PI to make such an extraordinary announcement. Perhaps all is not as it seems & there really is a fear factor involved.
"a cadaver dog interaction with certain equipment" what equipment could that be?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 03, 2016, 12:38:29 AM
Eaton: Can you give us examples of the inconsistencies?

Klein: We can’t even match simple things like filling up with gas at a diesel store in Leadore on the day of the event. He clearly says that the gentleman who was pumping the gas actually saw the child. We interviewed the guy who had supposedly seen the child and he comes back and says, ‘I don’t remember seeing a child.’

Simple things like a dog in the back of the pickup – there was no dog.

Little things that investigators look at as simple things Vernal has not been able to verify with us.

As for Jessica, she has given five interviews to law enforcement and none of the stories she’s given us matched. In fact, she changes her story depending upon what day it is and what day we talk with her.

That’s very disturbing to us. We can’t even verify basic information that Vernal tells us and neither of their stories match. It’s not even close, as a matter of fact.

Eyewitnesses that they have listed – from guys that distribute the beer to the clerk at the store to the person that pumped the gas to the basic timeline information – Vernal and Jessica tell us one story but then the witnesses say no, that never happened. Here’s what did happen.

So we take all of that and we come back to them with, ‘OK, tell us what really happened because all these witnesses you have given us, they don’t match.’

And so they tell us the story and again. We go out and we try to reverify with different witnesses. Then, in some cases, some say, ‘We don’t even know who these people are. Who are you talking about?’

Not only that, it comes down to simple things like they played with DeOrr at the store. We talked to the witnesses before and after who didn’t even see a child (in the store).

It brings concern to us and brings us to the question of why would they lie to us? Why would they not just tell us the truth?

We add that Vernal has gone in for five polygraph tests from different polygraph test administers – state, local and federal government. Vernal not only failed all five but he failed all five in the 99th percentile. That is hugely disturbing to us.

He can’t even pass a non-control question like, “Are you gonna tell us the truth today?” He flunks it and not only does he flunk it, he doesn’t just spike in his polygraph test, it’s like a wave. That disturbs us tremendously.

Then we move to Jessica. Law enforcement gives Jessica four different tests. Jessica failed not only to the 99th percentile but she can’t pass simple control questions.

That’s not because she’s nervous. She’s able to pass her name, she’s able to pass where she is today, she’s able to pass the certain questions that are no-brainer questions, but doesn’t even come close to what happened to DeOrr or, ‘Are you going to tell the truth today?’ She fails so bad that in my 26 years, I’ve never heard of a person failing that bad.

Today we’re going to announce that there was a cadaver dog interaction with certain equipment at the site and that cadaver dog did hit positive. I can’t go any further than that other than we do have a dog that did hit in the initial two weeks of the primary investigation.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Eleanor on March 03, 2016, 12:41:24 AM

Jesus, these people can't even speak English.  But that is where they fall down.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 03, 2016, 12:45:40 AM
"a cadaver dog interaction with certain equipment" what equipment could that be?

I'm going to say fishing equipment!
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 03, 2016, 01:24:41 AM
10 OCT 2015 Interview Analysis

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 03, 2016, 01:38:34 AM
I'm going to say fishing equipment!
What sort of fishing equipment do you mean Misty?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Brietta on March 03, 2016, 02:37:00 AM
10 OCT 2015 Interview Analysis


I'm not really into this sort of analysis whether it has any basis or not is I think probably more to do with the 'skills' of the practitioner or the lack of them.
However this did turn out to be a very sympathetic study.

Of more interest than what is going to turn into a very difficult case to prosecute should there be enough evidence to do so (the PI's synopsis in the previous video on the thread ... phew!) is the fact that William Tyrell's parents were obscured on camera.

Despite the supposed reason for that ... it struck me as being an excellent idea and something which should be done as a matter of course in all investigations into missing children.
It would prevent the parents becoming the object of wild speculation and kangaroo courts and keep the focus where it belongs ... on the missing child. 
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 03, 2016, 10:16:03 AM
Jessica Mitchell knows where DeOrr's body is by DeOrr Kunz private investigator

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Brietta on March 03, 2016, 11:24:11 AM
Jessica Mitchell knows where DeOrr's body is by DeOrr Kunz private investigator


Quite ... but who exactly does this guy think he is to be setting himself up as prosecutor, judge and jury in this highly prejudicial manner.

If there is sufficient evidence that harm has come to DeOrr which enable charges to be laid, how is this going to play out if the allegation is against anyone he has mentioned?

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 03, 2016, 11:31:57 AM
He can back up what he says with evidence so he has released certain information to the public. Inconsistencies are important in any case to an investigator like a visit at 6:30 on 3 May i.e. nothing matches between the two witnesses.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Brietta on March 03, 2016, 12:08:09 PM
He can back up what he says with evidence so he has released certain information to the public. Inconsistencies are important in any case to an investigator like a visit at 6:30 on 3 May i.e. nothing matches between the two witnesses.

You are getting this the wrong way round.

It is for law enforcement to investigate and present any evidence they may uncover to prosecutors and the judiciary for the decision to be made whether or not it is sufficient to proceed to trial with.

Only when it has been discussed in court in which the accused has benefit of counsel does the general public have the right to mull over what has been presented to the court.

This member of the public has the right to give any evidence he gleaned as a result of his employment as a PI ... I think presenting it to the court of public opinion hardly represents due process and while being prejudicial to the individuals involved may also prejudice any resulting trial.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 03, 2016, 06:24:09 PM
This member of the public has the right to give any evidence he gleaned as a result of his employment as a PI ... I think presenting it to the court of public opinion hardly represents due process
Brietta I found a video of PIs giving evidence to "the court of public opinion" in the PDL case.
They even had a "public opinion manager" standing next to them.
 
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Brietta on March 03, 2016, 06:57:18 PM
Brietta I found a video of PIs giving evidence to "the court of public opinion" in the PDL case.
They even had a "public opinion manager" standing next to them.

Everybody and their auntie have made videos in Madeleine McCann's case ... one would have thought that a bit more consideration would have been given to due process in DeOrr Kunz's case.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 03, 2016, 07:34:08 PM
http://www.localnews8.com/news/private-investigator-cadaver-dog-proves-there-was-a-death/38307992

Update: Private Investigator Klein has been "fired" from Kunz investigation

Staff Writer
POSTED: 05:13 PM MST Mar 02, 2016
UPDATED: 10:33 AM MST Mar 03, 2016

IDAHO FALLS, Idaho (KIFI/KIDK) -
Update 3/3 10:20 am: The attorney representing the Kunz family, Allen Browning, released a copy of the letter that was sent to Klein Investigations and Counseling informing Klein he was being fired from the investigation.
In the letter from Dennis Deorr Kunz, Klein is told he is being fired for expressing public opinions on the case.

"I hired Mr. Klein to find my grandson, not to make public statements concerning his opinions on this case," writes Kunz.

Kunz also accuses Klein of refusing to meet with him and Browning before making his public statements about his findings. Kunz also states that Klein's recent accusations against the family have caused a number of death threats against his son Vernal Deorr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell. He states that Mitchell has lost her job because of the accusations.

"And for all this trouble Mr. Klein has caused my family, and after Mr. Klein had been payed $20,000, I have no more information concerning the disappearance than I had on the day Mr. Klein was hired. Mr. Klein, you and your company are fired," writes Kunz
A copy of the letter is attached to this article.

Update 3/2 6:25: According to the Klein Investigations and Counseling Facebook page, Phillip Klein has been "fired" from the investigation by the Kunz family.

The post on Facebook reads as follows:

At 5:28 p.m. today - KIC Texas received a fax letter reported to have come from Dennis Deorr Kunz of Idaho Falls, Idaho. Mr. Kunz has released (fired - his term) our firm from the missing person case regarding Deorr Kunz.

This action taken by Dennis Kunz is the same action he took with Frank Viltz - the former investigator - as it was reported that he too came to the same conclusion in his limited time on the case. This is a pattern of behavior it seems.

Accordingly we have received a request to continue this case from two interested parties who wish us to continue. We are vetting those two requests as we speak.

I want to assure you in Idaho that we are not leaving the case.
Further, it is our opinion that Dennis Kunz is a wonderful man, however, we believe he is being misled. We wish Mr. Kunz nothing but the best from all of us at KIC Texas.

Thank you again for the very nice comments. Our commitment is only to finding Deorr Kunz and not any other side shows."

We've reached out to the Kunz family for comment on this development. We will continue to provide updates as we receive them.
Original Story: The private investigator hired by the Deorr Kunz family said a cadaver dog scented blood or other bodily fluid on a piece of equipment while searching for the boy’s body. He said the evidence proves there was a death.

Philip R. Klein of Klein Investigations and Consulting spoke with reporter Chelsea Brentzel Wednesday. He wouldn’t say what the piece of equipment was or when the cadaver dogs found it.

“We believe it is important for the public to know that the cadaver dog did hit in three certain areas of the pieces of equipment which does indicate there was a death or there was some type of fluid, cerebral fluid, blood whatever it may be, that was in the location where the dog hit, and that we know there was a death,” said Klein.

Lemhi County sheriff’s office isn’t confirming what Klein is saying.

Klein also said Jessica Mitchell, the mother, knows where the body is on the mountain and won’t tell investigators.

You can watch the full interview with Klein on the video above.

Deorr Kunz was reported missing on July 10, 2015 at Timbercreek campground near Leadore. The father, Vernal DeOrr Kunz, great grandfather, Robert Walton, and a friend Isaac Reinwand were also at the campground the day the boy was reported missing.

======================================================================
The PI was hired by the grandfather of Deorr & was not present at the campsite.

Here is one of the comments posted under the news update. Shades of Amaral.

Neal Rauhauser • 6 hours ago
Klein currently faces an $8M libel suit in Bexar county, Texas. This is due to a couple getting arrested in the U.S. during a custody case based on forged documents procured in Mexico.

There are two blogspots and a stand alone blog that have a great deal of information on Klein's doings.

operationkleinwatch and notthisonetoojacques, both on blogspot.com, are Beaumont locals who know Klein. viaviewfiles.net is focused on my case in Texas, Rauhauser v. McGibney, but Klein's recent escapades are profiled there.

The best source of all would be Jerry Jordan's setinvestigates.com. He is also local to Beaumont, but he's a proper investigative journalist who has done stories on Klein in conjunction with a local TV station in the past.

I have no opinion on what happened to the missing little boy; the only reason I'm here is that this story triggered my Philip Klein Google Alerts. I will say this - I'm from Iowa and I know the mother of this little boy, who fell right off the face of the earth while in the company of his grandfather and older siblings. I'd hate to see this family, already coping with a whodunit loss of a preschooler, facing scrutiny from law enforcement due to some self-aggrandizing claims by an 'investigator' with a record like Klein's.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 03, 2016, 08:38:40 PM
(snip) .... Reinwand won't speak with the PI's. He has a criminal record.
Listen to what Klein says about Reinwald. A great guy, it was certainly not him, he has been used as a scapegoat, he is now talking to Klein and LE with no need for an attorney.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 03, 2016, 10:20:49 PM
Listen to what Klein says about Reinwald. A great guy, it was certainly not him, he has been used as a scapegoat, he is now talking to Klein and LE with no need for an attorney.

Reinwand does have an attorney.
I hope he's providing the Sheriff with more information than was forthcoming in the recent TV interview.
Perhaps the man feels more secure because of the accusations now being levelled at his camp-mates. I'm at a loss to understand how neither he nor ggf can't know what happened to Deorr if the parents committed a criminal act.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 03, 2016, 10:34:30 PM
Reinwand does have an attorney.
I hope he's providing the Sheriff with more information than was forthcoming in the recent TV interview.
Perhaps the man feels more secure because of the accusations now being levelled at his camp-mates. I'm at a loss to understand how neither he nor ggf can't know what happened to Deorr if the parents committed a criminal act.
He no longer uses one Misty, because he is not a suspect, according to Klein, in long video above.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 03, 2016, 10:49:07 PM
I'm going to say fishing equipment!
Unlikely IMO. There are other types of "equipment" mentioned in various reports. A truck, possibly a motorbike, can't find a boat but it's a boating destination.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 03, 2016, 11:45:30 PM
He no longer uses one Misty, because he is not a suspect, according to Klein, in long video above.

IMO you shouldn't believe everything Klein says. Isaac is a man of limited mental capabilities & it would be foolish for him to discard counsel if he is now "singing like a canary".
Don't know if you have found your way here yet - http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=1611 - but it's quite a good read.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 03, 2016, 11:55:46 PM
Unlikely IMO. There are other types of "equipment" mentioned in various reports. A truck, possibly a motorbike, can't find a boat but it's a boating destination.

LOL I'm more concerned about the use of a multi-purpose dog who can't tell its handler if it's cadaver or cerebral fluid being alerted to.
Apparently there was a hair attached to a spade but it then blew away in the wind. Such are the facts.

I have yet to read up on Klein's dodgy Mexican dealings but will post anything I find of interest.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 12:14:00 AM
IMO you shouldn't believe everything Klein says. Isaac is a man of limited mental capabilities & it would be foolish for him to discard counsel if he is now "singing like a fairy".
Don't know if you have found your way here yet - http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=1611 - but it's quite a good read.
Let's agree to differ on that Misty. Totally innocent IMO, which was obvious just from the doorstepping video alone, and confirmed by the later interview, IMO.
BTW re either parent, the first PI advanced from http://youtu.be/-78P5ayOlRc , to (after further investigation) http://youtu.be/HjxK5P3NFNM
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 12:22:53 AM
LOL I'm more concerned about the use of a multi-purpose dog who can't tell its handler if it's cadaver or cerebral fluid being alerted to.
Apparently there was a hair attached to a spade but it then blew away in the wind. Such are the facts.

I have yet to read up on Klein's dodgy Mexican dealings but will post anything I find of interest.
More cadaver dogs are now being flown in from Georgia. It seems that the Idaho police and PI Klein have not been reading davel's posts.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 04, 2016, 12:30:01 AM
http://www.localnews8.com/blob/view/-/38328290/data/1/-/u1jhdgz/-/Kunz-Family-Sues-Klein-Investigations.pdf
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 04, 2016, 01:17:13 AM
More cadaver dogs are now being flown in from Georgia. It seems that the Idaho police and PI Klein have not been reading davel's posts.

When is that happening do you know? Locals have posted tht the area is still pretty inaccessible by foot due to snow.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 04, 2016, 01:24:26 AM
http://www.localnews8.com/blob/view/-/38328290/data/1/-/u1jhdgz/-/Kunz-Family-Sues-Klein-Investigations.pdf



Can you not see the parallels with the McCann case?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 01:55:09 AM
When is that happening do you know? Locals have posted tht the area is still pretty inaccessible by foot due to snow.
Soon I think. It's somewhere in that long interview with Klein. In addition to cadaver dogs from Georgia, they are flying in a specialist search team from Texas.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 04, 2016, 09:31:27 AM


Can you not see the parallels with the McCann case?

Here is the full text of the family's attorney Allen Browning's statement:

"I represent Vernal DeOrr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell, the parents of missing DeOrr Kunz, and the child's paternal grandfather, Dennis DeOrr Kunz. Philip Klein was hired by Dennis Kunz, and was paid $20,000, to find the missing child DeOrr Kunz. He has been unsuccessful. As a private investigator hired by Mr. Kunz, he has an obligation to share his findings with his client. He also has an obligation to keep his findings confidential. The week of January 25, 2016, Mr. Klein made inflammatory public statements, to the effect that he has been doing an investigation and has found that there is no evidence to contradict the Lemhi County sheriff's conclusion that the parents of Dennis Kunz's grandchild should be named as suspects in this case. Mr. Klein's statements caused many to believe that Vernal DeOrr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell were responsible for their son's disappearance, and that Mr. Klein had proof, and this caused the general public to hate these people. I discussed this matter with Dennis and Vernal when these statements were made. We wanted a meeting with Mr. Klein to find out why he would make such statements without permission of his client and to tell him not to do such things in the future. Mr. Klein agreed to meet with Dennis and Vernal and other family members on Wednesday, January 27, 2016. When Mr. Klein was informed the family's attorney would be present, he said he would not meet with them.

"Not wishing to miss an opportunity to speak with Mr. Klein, Dennis agreed to speak with him without my being present.

"During the course of the meeting, Mr. Klein essentially recapped work that had been done by the FBI and the Lemhi County prosecutor, and even told Vernal Kunz that there was a deal on the table that all this could be over if he would just plead to one count of a charge in which he would admit to knowing where the body of his child was; he could get only six months of probation and the charge would be expunged from his record.

"After the meeting had been going on for some time, Vernal came out of the room to meet me, and he informed me that Mr. Klein had made that statement to him. Vernal told me that he would love for all of this to be over, but he wasn't going to plead to anything like that because he had no idea whether his son was dead or alive, he hoped he was alive, but certainly had no idea where he son was. I told him I needed to go in and meet with Mr. Klein, who was now not operating like the family's private investigator, but was acting like a prosecutor trying to trick my client.

"I went into the meeting and introduce myself to Mr. Klein, who was not at all happy to see me. I asked him if he had related to Vernal that he was being offered a plea deal with the FBI where he would plead to some offense, get six months' probation and get the offense expunged from his record, because I am not aware of any federal charge that would get a defendant six months probation and an expungement of the offense from the record. Mr. Klein refused to answer my question. I told Mr. Klein that he was not to be giving Vernal any legal advice, because I was the attorney and he was not. Mr. Klein said that under Texas law he was not even allowed to be in the same room with me while discussing details of this case. I informed Mr. Klein that he was in Idaho and there was no such law in Idaho. At that point, Mr. Klein gathered his papers in front of him and prepared to leave. I informed him, in the presence of Dennis Kunz at that time, that I was the spokesman for the Kunz family and Mr. Klein was not authorized to make any public statements on behalf of the family. Mr. Klein heard me loud and clear at that time.

"I am not aware that any efforts have been made by Mr. Klein since that meeting to find DeOrr Jr. However, Dennis did call Mr. Klein a couple of weeks ago and asked him if Klein had anyone in Idaho working on the case, and he said that he did, that he had "undercover" agents working on the case, people whose identities could not be disclosed. Dennis wanted to meet them and Mr. Klein said that was not possible. Dennis insisted if there was anyone working for Mr. Klein on the case that he meet with him. An hour later, Mr. Klein called him back and said he would allow the meeting, but only this once. He said that Dennis had to go to the local mall, enter at a particular time through a particular door, and take a particular route to Dillard's department store. He was to go to a particular spot in that store and stand facing the wall, and after a time someone would come up behind him and whisper the secret code number "999," and that would be Klein's undercover agent.
So Dennis did as Mr. Klein directed. Some guy showed up and whispered the secret code number "999" to him, and Dennis asked him to show him some documentation that he was a member of the Klein Investigations team. He didn't have anything, so Dennis didn't bother speaking with him further.

"Why any private investigator would act this way is beyond me.

"A couple of days ago, again without consulting Dennis, and in violation of my express statement to Mr. Klein in Dennis' presence that I was the authorized spokesman for the Kunz family and he was not, Mr. Klein took to the media and announced to the world that DeOrr jr. was dead, that Jessica Mitchell had confessed to him that she knew where the body was, that Vernal DeOrr Kunz was a liar that was hiding what he knew from everyone and that Dennis Kunz and the rest of the family was in denial.

"None of these statements are true.

"When I heard that Jessica had confessed to Philip Klein that she knew DeOrr Jr. was dead and that she knew where the body was I was shocked. I spoke with her and asked if this was true. She said no, she had been questioned numerous times by the sheriff and the FBI, not recently, and that after she had finished one of the interrogations they asked where she thought her son might be. She said she thought he was still up on the mountain somewhere and they just haven't been able to find him yet.

"As to polygraph test results, those are never to be shared with the general public for several reasons. Among those reasons is that the machine has to be read by someone and is subjective; it does not say "lie" or "truth." In many cases, the readings are "inconclusive." In Vernal's case, he voluntarily subjected himself to a polygraph three times, because they told him the first test was not administered properly, the second was inconclusive. He hasn't seen any results from the third test.

"Mr. Klein has said Vernal Kunz is a liar. He will get his opportunity to prove Mr. Kunz is a liar. However, Mr. Kunz did not lie to investigators. Mr. Kunz had no obligation to speak with detectives at all. If he had committed a crime concerning his son, he would not have voluntarily subjected himself to interrogations by detectives, without having an attorney present, many times.

"I would like the general public to know that Mr. Kunz had spoken with me last summer about the police wanting to question him about the disappearance of his son. I told him at that time he should make no statement at all, because the police and FBI were not interested in finding his son, they were going to be setting him up to convict him of a crime. He met with them anyway because he had not done anything wrong. As a result of several of those meetings, this innocent man has been named a "suspect" in the disappearance of his son. A reporter from a national magazine informed me that the "inconsistency" in one of Vernal's statements to the Lemhi County sheriff was that he changed the identity of who made breakfast the day of his son's disappearance.

"I hope this is a lesson to the general public: innocent people need to follow their attorney's advice.

"As a result of the recent outrageous statements by Mr. Klein, Jessica has been terminated from her employment. The public at large has posted statements hailing Mr. Klein as some kind of a public hero and blasting Vernal DeOrr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell as being the s..m of the earth. I have read these statements and they are heartbreaking.

"I am proud that I am being given the opportunity to set the record straight for Vernal DeOrr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell, and to let the public know that they will proceed with legal action against Mr. Klein for making defamatory statements about them.

"I am also proud to state that I will be filing a breach of contract suit against Mr. Klein on behalf of his former client, Dennis DeOrr Kunz. Mr. Klein was not hired to abuse his family. Mr. Klein was never given permission to make any statements about his investigation to the general public. Mr. Klein was paid $20,000 to find DeOrr Jr. because that's what Dennis wanted and that's what Vernal wanted. Mr. Klein's actions have been nothing short of destructive, and Dennis Kunz and his family want nothing further to do with Philip Klein.

"I met with Dennis Kunz, Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell yesterday. Dennis signed a letter formally firing Mr. Klein, and listing all the trouble he has caused by making unauthorized statements.

"Social media has exploded as a result of the horrendous and untrue statements of Philip Klein. Hundreds of people have written comments in response to these statements. The general public is now convinced that Vernal DeOrr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell are criminals at best, child murderers at worst.

"I want the public to know that I advised my clients to fire Philip Klein. Some on social media have publicly come to Mr. Klein's defense, without any knowledge of the real facts (like the weeks that Vernal Kunz spent searching for his son in Lemhi County after his disappearance). Some have said Mr. Klein was fired because he was getting "too close to the truth." There is no truth to that at all.

"Philip Klein was fired for destroying people's lives.

"Dennis Kunz can understand the FBI making people's lives a living hell by accusing them of crimes; it's what they do. What no one reading this can tolerate is hiring someone to help your family find a missing loved one, and having that person turn on you and use false statements to make the world hate the ones you love."

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/kunz-family-plans-to-sue-investigator/66876073
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Carana on March 04, 2016, 01:53:57 PM
I haven't followed any more than the basics of this case, but I find Mr Klein's press interview to be more than unprofessional.

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2016, 02:27:41 PM
I haven't followed any more than the basics of this case, but I find Mr Klein's press interview to be more than unprofessional.

One of the most bizarre things I have ever watched.  The world has gone mad!
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Carana on March 04, 2016, 03:18:46 PM
One of the most bizarre things I have ever watched.  The world has gone mad!

If the PT authoritieis were concerned about this type of behaviour on the part of US-style PIs, I can understand why they weren't nuts about the idea that the McCanns had hired some.

As it happens, the PJ managed to leak all by themselves.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 03:34:08 PM
For those interested in subconscious vocabulary leakage in speech: "upside-down" occurs several times.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2016, 03:38:20 PM
More cadaver dogs are now being flown in from Georgia. It seems that the Idaho police and PI Klein have not been reading davel's posts.

its clear that you have not understood my posts
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Carana on March 04, 2016, 04:10:51 PM
Klein says the constant lying isn't the only thing that raised red flags, there's physical evidence as well.

"There was a cadaver dog, that nobody knew about, that did hit on a piece of equipment that was at the mountain," Klein said.

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/idaho/kunz-family-fires-private-investigator/65018463

That doesn't seem to be quite what he said, though. 5:30 ish  "There was cadaver dog interaction WITH certain equipment." (At least that's what it sounds like to me.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIxbl3HyJz4


KBOI 2 TV reports July 2 that someone went into the area where they were searching and scattered a family member's ashes. The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office says that this put scent dogs on the wrong trail. So, the smell of the remains that the dogs picked up, weren't remains of the missing Idaho toddler.

http://www.examiner.com/article/deorr-kunz-jr-update-scent-dogs-thrown-off-search-of-missing-idaho-toddler


Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Carana on March 04, 2016, 04:15:41 PM
Who's paying for his alleged "9 agents"?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 04:17:40 PM
its clear that you have not understood my posts
I do understand your posts davel.

What do you think of this statement by Klein?

"We believe it is important for the public to know that the cadaver dog did hit in three certain areas of the pieces of equipment which does indicate there was a death or there was some type of fluid, cerebral fluid, blood whatever it may be, that was in the location where the dog hit, and that we know there was a death"
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 04:27:11 PM
Who's paying for his alleged "9 agents"?
Until recently the contract was with the paternal grandfather (who was not present on the camping trip), probably supplemented by the various fundraising efforts by family and friends.

Now one or two other people, who have not been named yet, have volunteered to take over paying.

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2016, 04:29:19 PM
I do understand your posts davel.

What do you think of this statement by Klein?

"We believe it is important for the public to know that the cadaver dog did hit in three certain areas of the pieces of equipment which does indicate there was a death or there was some type of fluid, cerebral fluid, blood whatever it may be, that was in the location where the dog hit, and that we know there was a death"


lets talk about my posts first...what do you think my opinion of the dogs is
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 04:37:26 PM

lets talk about my posts first...what do you think my opinion of the dogs is
Your opinion of Eddie and Keela IMO davel is that they were extremely valuable resources but that in the PDL case their findings were meaningless because they were uncorrobated by forensic evidence.

What is your opinion of this?
"We believe it is important for the public to know that the cadaver dog did hit in three certain areas of the pieces of equipment which does indicate there was a death or there was some type of fluid, cerebral fluid, blood whatever it may be, that was in the location where the dog hit, and that we know there was a death"
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Carana on March 04, 2016, 04:48:16 PM
Your opinion of Eddie and Keela IMO davel is that they were extremely valuable resources but that in the PDL case their findings were meaningless because they were uncorrobated by forensic evidence.

What is your opinion of this?
"We believe it is important for the public to know that the cadaver dog did hit in three certain areas of the pieces of equipment which does indicate there was a death or there was some type of fluid, cerebral fluid, blood whatever it may be, that was in the location where the dog hit, and that we know there was a death"

What equipment? Where? His TV interview states that a dog hit WITH equipment? Could that have been related to the cremains issue or is this something different?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2016, 04:48:33 PM
If the PT authoritieis were concerned about this type of behaviour on the part of US-style PIs, I can understand why they weren't nuts about the idea that the McCanns had hired some.

As it happens, the PJ managed to leak all by themselves.

I think this guy could learn a lot from the PJ as far as subtlety is concerned.  Up front and in your face Trump style delivery is not nearly as subversive as a longer term insidious campaign of leaks.

I reckon with a little more thought he could have managed a series of best sellers, not just one ... 'the truth of the lie' title has gone but I am sure a good publisher would have been able to come up with something just as good.

 
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Carana on March 04, 2016, 04:49:21 PM
I'm a bit bewildered by this Klein chap so far.

http://setinvestigates.com/clients/setinvestigates/Criminal_Complaint_2.pdf

This complaint doesn't bear a signature, so it may not be bona fide.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
Your opinion of Eddie and Keela IMO davel is that they were extremely valuable resources but that in the PDL case their findings were meaningless because they were uncorrobated by forensic evidence.




so what is wrong with the above...its basically what Grime said....don't worry I will come to klein
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 04:59:28 PM
so what is wrong with the above...its basically what Grime said....don't worry I will come to klein
As an accurate very short summary of your opinion on Eddie and Keela, there's nothing wrong with it davel.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 04, 2016, 05:02:57 PM
http://www.viaviewfiles.net/uncategorized/texas-pi-philip-klein-creates-fraudulent-court-records-that-result-in-womans-false-arrest-8-million-lawsuit/
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2016, 05:05:36 PM
As an accurate very short summary of your opinion on Eddie and Keela, there's nothing wrong with it davel.

my opinion is supported by Grime
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Carana on March 04, 2016, 05:39:17 PM

Just to add a bit more confusion:


Klein Investigations and Consulting
27 January ·

Comment by Lead Investigator Philip R. Klein :

"Sadly today, Criminal Defense Attorney Allen Browning, who reports himself to be the attorney for Deorr Kunz, appeared today on the Neal Larson Radio Show in Idaho Falls, Idaho. During this interview Mr. Browning made the following statements :

1) Deorr Kunz hired a private investigation firm and paid them lots of money.

2) That Deorr Kunz, to his dismay, has not been given any information about this case.

3) That KIC Texas made a statement regarding the case without even talking to the Mr. Kunz and that is irresponsible.

To insure the record is clear we feel we must respond to Mr. Browning's comments.

1) Deorr Kunz has never hired this firm nor has he paid us any money.

2) Mr. Deorr Kunz is not our client but a witness. We have no obligation to keep him informed.

3) Any statement that we have made publicly has been advised to our client first - to which we have had extended conversations with and updates.

Once again, we urge the public and counsel, not to speak until the facts are clear as this sort of behavor only continues to fan the false flames higher. Please be responsible before making a statement to the public or in social media."
122 Likes35 Comments25 Shares
https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/posts/945135062235745
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 05:43:01 PM
my opinion is supported by Grime
He is certainly an expert. In the US case are you pleased that cadaver dogs are reportedly now being flown in from another state?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2016, 05:59:40 PM
He is certainly an expert. In the US case are you pleased that cadaver dogs are reportedly now being flown in from another state?


no problem at all..dogs are a fantastic tool in recovering evidence
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 06:09:44 PM

no problem at all..dogs are a fantastic tool in recovering evidence
Agreed. Do you have an opinion on the 3 alerts by a cadaver dog on equipment at the beginning of the search?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 04, 2016, 06:16:45 PM
I think this may be the cadaver dog team from Georgia Klein will be using.

http://americanshootingjournal.com/tag/cinco/

He used this lady in the Mollie Miller case.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 06:19:19 PM
Just to add a bit more confusion: ...(snip)
The missing child is Deorr Kunz
The missing child's father is Vernal Deorr Kunz
The missing child's paternal grandfather is Dennis Deorr Kunz who was not present on the camping trip.
It was DDK (not VDK) who contracted Klein to search.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2016, 06:21:13 PM
Agreed. Do you have an opinion on the 3 alerts by a cadaver dog on equipment at the beginning of the search?

if they are not corroborated ...they are meaningless
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Carana on March 04, 2016, 06:31:27 PM
The missing child is Deorr Kunz
The missing child's father is Vernal Deorr Kunz
The missing child's paternal grandfather is Dennis Deorr Kunz who was not present on the camping trip.
It was DDK (not VDK) who contracted Klein to search.

Thanks for that. It still seems odd that he would blab to the media.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 06:35:48 PM
I think this may be the cadaver dog team from Georgia Klein will be using.

http://americanshootingjournal.com/tag/cinco/

He used this lady in the Mollie Miller case.
Thanks Misty. Videos about their natural disaster work.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2013/05/25/dog-cadaver-animal-hero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i16zX2AXFKE
Closure is important.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 04, 2016, 09:30:27 PM
Update 8:15 p.m.: Private investigator Phillip Klein has responded publicly to the letter from the Kunz family attorney. Klein issued the following state on the Klein Investigations and Consulting Facebook page:

This evening I have been forwarded a Press Release from Attorney Allen Browning. He now states he represents Dennis Deorr Kunz, Vernal Deorr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell. In Mr. Browning's two page statement he made some accusations. Publicly, I urge Mr. Browning before he files suit against us - to have a strong heart to heart conversation with his clients. As we have clearly documented, recorded, and saved every portion of the case. I urge him to visit and look at the evidence that has been provided to Law Enforcement before he does anything.

As for the accusations leveled against our firm - we make the following statements :

1) "The Truth is the ultimate defense."

2) Mr. Kunz has not spent any money on this case - the public has and a family member who made contact with our firm in tears and anger today has.

3) Mr. Kunz was fully informed that as a part of his contract with us - our firm would retain full control over the media relations. Today we release this letter to you the public.

4) Last Mr. Browning made some very serious statements regarding me and myself violating the law by "giving legal advice." This evening I have reviewed - and my legal counsel has reviewed the audio recording of the event Mr. Browning misstates. The events that are described by Mr. Browning on January 27, 2016 are not factual. In fact the meeting Mr. Browing references was a family meeting and briefing to which Vernal was not invited nor was Mr. Browning. Clearly, and without a doubt, Mr. Brownings statement is incorrect. I publicly ask Mr. Browning to retract his statement.

I further want to state publicy that I do not believe Mr. Browning is making these statements in any manner other than what his client at the time told him. I believe Mr. Browning is being misled. Again, the recording of the meeting and the description of the event Mr. Browning has described are not even close. We will reach out to Mr. Browning in the next 24 hours to provide him a copy of the recording before he files any suit. Again, we do not believe Mr. Browning is making his statements with anything other than misinformation by his clients. He has an obligation to do his duty to investigate before filing a suit. We again will reach out to him tomorrow.

We thank the public for their support. We will announce shortly our continued commitment to this case for finding baby DeOrr which has been our goal since day one.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/kunz-attorney-files-lawsuit-against-private-investigator/38328094
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 04, 2016, 09:34:45 PM
NEDERLAND, Texas (KIFI/KIDK) -
Private investigator Philip R. Klein released a statement Monday about the ongoing DeOrr Kunz, Jr. case. The statement reads as follows:

In November of 2015 KIC Texas accepted the case of the missing child DeOrr Kunz, Jr., who went missing from a campground near Leadore, Idaho in July of 2015. There has been much speculation by the public, family members and the press regarding this young child's disappearance. Today we announce to the public and media the closing of phase three of our case and our conclusions to date. The following are our conclusions to date. The following are our conclusions regarding the case:

1. The conclusion by the civil investigation team of "what happened" to DeOrr Kunz, Jr. is officially death by accident/homicide.

2. The following person are "person of interest/suspects with direct knowledge."

A. Vernal DeOrr Kunz
B. Jessica Mitchell
C. Robert "Bob" Walton

3. The investigation continues regarding Isaac Reinwand - as he has begun to cooperate with Investigators and has given a further statement. Those claims are being evalutated at this time.

The final phase of our investigation will be recovery. We believe through evidence and witness statements we will be able to recover a body in this case. We continue to agree with Sheriff Bowerman and his statements of this past week as we too have had to deal with multiple stories and changes in facts by some of the witnesses whom were on the mountain during the timeline of events. We further agree with the law enforcement teams from around the United States that are involved in this case - that both Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell know what happened on that mountain in July of 2015. We want the public to know that we believe through evidence the family members of Kunz, Mitchell and Walton ARE NOT involved - however - we believe they are too close to their family members and are in denial. The evidence is very clear.

---------------

Private Investigator Phillip Klein tells Local News 8 and KIDK 3 Eyewitness News that "Every test the state of Idaho and the FBI has given the parents, they have failed."

"We are publicly asking both Vernal and Jessica to come forward and tell the true story. To stop lying, to stop misleading investigators, and lets bring this thing to a conclusion," said Klein.

The private investigative team will bring in a group of dogs from Georgia once the snow thaws "into a certain area of the lower part of the campground," said Klein. "That's all we're willing to say at this point. And we will begin an extensive ground search."

Local News 8 and KIDK Eyewitness News want to make it very clear that the statements above are solely sourced from Klein Investigation and Consulting. As of right now, no other law enforcement agency is releasing a statement agreeing with these statements.

We did reach out to the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office for comment, they simply said "It is a very active investigation, and it is a top priority to the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office."

http://www.localnews8.com/news/Private-investigator-in-DeOrr-Kunz-investigation-issues-statement/38263618
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 04, 2016, 09:44:50 PM
"as a part of his contract with us - our firm would retain full control over the media relations"
So the PI is simply doing what he was contracted to do.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 04, 2016, 11:26:57 PM
http://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/private-detective-in-deorr-kunz-case-rehired-by-anonymous-client/article_f0c57fa3-8ae7-5785-9edc-d0287faeacba.html

4hrs ago

This week an attorney representing the parents of missing Idaho Falls boy DeOrr Kunz Jr. announced they had fired Klein Investigations and Consulting. In a written statement, the attorney also announced the child's family is pursuing a lawsuit against the private investigation firm for breach of contract and defamation.

But the Nederland, Texas-based company's CEO, Philip Klein, said his detectives won’t be leaving the case any time soon.

He told the Journal that he has been hired by an anonymous client to continue his investigation into what happened to DeOrr, who was reported missing from his family’s campsite in Lemhi County on July 10.

“We were rehired by somebody who wants this case to be resolved and wants to find out what happened to the missing boy,” Klein said. “But the new client does not want their name to be released out to the public.”
Though Klein wouldn’t say exactly where they would be searching, he did say it would be near the Timber Creek Campground, which is the mountain campsite located approximately 115 northwest of Idaho Falls where DeOrr was first reported missing last summer.

However, investigators will have to wait for the snow to melt before the area becomes accessible, which Klein said could take at least 30 more days.

A multi-faceted search of the area around the campground, near Leadore, was conducted in the month after the boy was reported missing. Despite the efforts of scuba divers, scent dogs, horseback riders, emergency responders,  dozens of volunteers, and searchers on a helicopter and ATVs, DeOrr was never found.

Klein also said that Texas Equusearch, a search and rescue organization devoted to finding missing persons, and a team of cadaver dogs from Georgia will be traveling to Idaho within the next couple months to search for DeOrr's remains. Klein believes DeOrr is likely deceased.
Though Klein wouldn’t say exactly where they would be searching, he did say it would be near the Timber Creek Campground, which is the mountain campsite located approximately 115 northwest of Idaho Falls where DeOrr was first reported missing last summer.

However, investigators will have to wait for the snow to melt before the area becomes accessible, which Klein said could take at least 30 more days......

*snipped as rest of article repeats previous info.

=======================================================================

(I don't think I've ever come across a more irritating website than the above)



Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 05, 2016, 02:25:34 AM
“they have torn that creek upside down"

"your whole world could be changed and turned upside down forever"

"moment my life went from great to upside down"
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 06, 2016, 12:37:25 AM
“they have torn that creek upside down"

"your whole world could be changed and turned upside down forever"

"moment my life went from great to upside down"

His own language idiosyncrasy or words based on a memory fixed in his mind? Not sure.
The more I read on other US forums the more doubts I have about what actually happened.
Mother has history.
Registered female sex offender employed at diner/bar in Leadore. Another male one employed as a Ranger in the area.

Snipped from IR interview with East Idaho News 26/1/16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNCm3rvqwTA&ebc=ANyPxKqIxIR5xw-FqgxJ5r28PjPSo0hOcnXR_J7IdU4lw6tdiG2--mAsM7WQ5oOShQ7EvG6icP2REfnTwiD_W667mw0Z3YEciA

"If Deorr & Jessica were arrested today, what would you say?"
"I'd say....I'd really be surprised...because I wouldn't think someone... people...somebody like those two would do something like that.."

Something like what?


Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 06, 2016, 01:30:49 AM
Former Kunz Private Investigator Frank Vilt Speaks

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 06, 2016, 01:45:28 AM
Former Kunz Private Investigator Frank Vilt Speaks


JM hadn't exactly given up custody of her 2 other children. They were allegedly taken from her following abuse (an anonymous source on another forum).
I'm still trying to establish whose idea it was to go camping at this particular campsite.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 06, 2016, 02:25:30 AM
(snip) language idiosyncrasy ...? ..(snip)
Possibly regional (state) language idiosyncrasy.
Or upsidedown could be relevant, which is not impossible IYTAI
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 06, 2016, 04:06:03 AM
Possibly regional (state) language idiosyncrasy.
Or upsidedown could be relevant, which is not impossible IYTAI

I don't know.
The road up out of the camp - there is a lot of hard flat rock there - unsuitable for burying anything. It's hard to understand why the dogs didn't find anything. I wonder if the searchers looked up, into the trees themselves?

 The early video of IR at his home last year - very Jame Gumb.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 06, 2016, 02:01:16 PM
15 JULY 2015 - The Campsite and Creek


(http://s11.postimg.org/4wx95qrbn/deorrkunzmap.jpg)
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Carana on March 06, 2016, 02:29:16 PM
I haven't been following this closely.

Was the PI's statement that a dog had alerted WITH equipment referring to a potential sounding of the reservoir, but which only led to someone scattering the cremains of a loved one? Or not?


2:13
*Nate Eaton*:
“Talk a little bit about the cremains that were dumped into, because the dogs were getting a scent…”

*Sheriff Bowerman:*
“Right! Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do. Within a couple days our dogs were telling us we need to spend more time up at the reservoir, and so we dove it for 2-3 more days and put side-scan sonar, and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”

3:04
*Nate Eaton*:
“Had he…had Deorr been in the reservoir, his body would have been recovered by now?”

3:11
*Sheriff Bowerman:*
“We believe so. Yeah. We really believe so. Mmm hmm.”

http://www.thesourcepublishing.com/missing-persons-idaho-deorr-kunz-jr/transcript-uncut-sheriff/
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 07, 2016, 04:14:44 AM
just noting that a common (probably incorrect) action after retrieval from water would be to hold upside down
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 13, 2016, 01:57:46 AM
http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/idaho/deorr-kunzs-parents-deny-harming-their-son/78531935.


IDAHO FALLS -- It's been eight months since rescue crews first began searching for missing 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr.

A lot has happened in the past eight months.

His disappearance has made national headlines including making the Nancy Grace Show, and even featured in People Magazine.

For the first since his parents were named suspects, Jessica Mitchell and Vernal Kunz are answering the questions about their son’s disappearance.

Both Jessica and Vernal say the majority of the public believes they are guilty of doing something to their son. They've received threat after threat. But despite that they felt it was time to share their story with the public.

"It's hard to even leave my house to go to get gas, or you know to go to the grocery store or something," said Jessica.

"You get up in the morning hopeful, you go to bed, just no more answers," said Vernal.
Tears stream down the faces of a mother and father accused of lying about their son's disappearance.

Jessica Mitchell and Vernal Kunz say July 10, 2015, is the last day they saw their son.

"It's so much easier just to blame parents," said Vernal.

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman named the parents suspects in January. Bowerman believes the two know more about what happened to DeOrr.

"People have pretty much laid my son to rest already," said Vernal.

Jessica and Vernal say not a day goes by without a threat.

"That they know we're going to go to hell for what we did to our son. How could we do that? Just things like that," said Jessica.

"If you're so damn positive we'd like to talk to you and so does the FBI and law enforcement if you're so positive," said Vernal.

“Phillip Klein claims that you confessed that you know where baby DeOrr's body is, and you won't go any further than that. Is that true?" asked KIFI reporter Chelsea Brentzel.

"Absolutely not. No," replied Jessica.

"So I have to ask you, did you murder your son?" said Brentzel.

"Absolutely not," replied Vernal.
"Was there an accident?” asked Brentzel.

"No," replied Vernal.

"So you're saying you have nothing to do with his disappearance," asked Brentzel.

"No, he was left with a trusted adult and when I got back my son was gone," replied Vernal.

"Does it worry you that with these things that have come out that people will stop looking for him?" asked Brentzel.

"I feel like that's been the case for months," said Jessica. "I feel like they've already made up their minds that he is deceased or whatever they think, and people go 'oh okay, well whatever' and they were able to walk past him, yeah and they could've walked past him, someone could have easily walked past him in a store."

"Thanks to the politics of this you've already made up your mind, you've put it behind you, it's closed in your mind. He's not home, we have no more answers than we did July 10th," said Vernal.

The parents say the search is not over.

"If somebody has him I want them to know that we're not going to give up and we'll find him, and it doesn't matter what you do to his appearance, we'll find him," said Jessica.

"Til the day I die, til the day we die, I will find him," said Vernal. "I refuse to leave this earth without knowing where he is or what happened at least. At least knowing that he's okay."

As of right now, no arrests or charges have been filed.
The parents are begging the public to keep their eyes open because they believe DeOrr is out there and hope he returns home safe soon.

Copyright 2016 KTVB

========================================================================

Video available at link for those who wish to view body language.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 13, 2016, 02:34:26 AM
Thanks Misty for that video, interesting, one completely natural set of responses, and ...
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 13, 2016, 02:45:41 AM
Thanks Misty for that video, interesting, one completely natural set of responses, and ...

I thought VK was very protective of his only son - understandable if reported circumstances are correct.
Their grief seems natural.
My money is still on Jame Gumb.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on March 13, 2016, 03:02:23 AM
I thought VK was very protective of his only son - understandable if reported circumstances are correct.
Their grief seems natural.
My money is still on Jame Gumb.
One half completely natural responses, and one half struggling with the inevitability of snow melting, georgians, and all that, IMO
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on April 09, 2016, 01:40:51 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/04/final-radio-podcast-on-deorr-kunz-jr-case-broadcast/

No fresh news on the search as yet. Parents have been forced to leave Idaho following social pressures & move to Las Vegas, though.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Brietta on April 09, 2016, 02:35:39 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/04/final-radio-podcast-on-deorr-kunz-jr-case-broadcast/

No fresh news on the search as yet. Parents have been forced to leave Idaho following social pressures & move to Las Vegas, though.

Interesting that the private detective Klein is also an author.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on April 09, 2016, 02:42:01 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/04/final-radio-podcast-on-deorr-kunz-jr-case-broadcast/

No fresh news on the search as yet. Parents have been forced to leave Idaho following social pressures & move to Las Vegas, though.
At the end of the podcast it says investigators are still waiting for the snow to melt.
A previous report said that when the snow has melted a cadaver dog team from Georgia will be deployed.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: Eleanor on April 09, 2016, 03:35:22 AM
At the end of the podcast it says investigators are still waiting for the snow to melt.
A previous report said that when the snow has melted a cadaver dog team from Georgia will be deployed.

OMG.  A Cadaver Dog can't find a Cadaver if it's been snowing.  Please don't make me laugh.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: G-Unit on April 09, 2016, 08:37:13 AM
OMG.  A Cadaver Dog can't find a Cadaver if it's been snowing.  Please don't make me laugh.

No-one said that Eleanor, what a strange assumption! Perhaps the snow gets so deep in the area that it's impassible for not just dogs but the people who have to go with them.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on April 09, 2016, 11:26:52 PM
OMG.  A Cadaver Dog can't find a Cadaver if it's been snowing.  Please don't make me laugh.
Here is a current snow depth map Eleanor. I've put a yellow circle approximately where the campsite is.
How exactly would you deploy a cadaver dog in snow that that is 30 to 75 inches deep?
The dog would sink in the snow.
This is why the cadaver dogs from Georgia will be deployed after the snow melts.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on May 24, 2016, 12:52:35 AM
http://www.kpvi.com/news/investigators-gather-evidence-in-deorr-kunz-junior-case/article_c6e73c9e-212c-11e6-8dd3-9f489b0edaec.html

Investigators gather evidence in DeOrr Kunz, Junior case

Lemhi County
 2 hrs ago
  0
 

After searching for three days in the Timber Creek Area of Lemhi County, sheriff deputies find evidence related to the disappearance of DeOrr Kunz, Junior.

According to a news release from the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office, Search and Rescue units along with other state and federal agencies searched the area around where Kunz, Junior disappeared in July of 2015. While investigators are not saying what they found, the evidence and information gathered during the search will now be analyzed and used to drive the investigation forward and assist in the planning of future searches.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can only wonder at this stage what investigators missed last year before the snow.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on May 28, 2016, 01:53:52 AM
The police have done a 3-day search. Next comes the search by Klein Investigations, EquiSearch, and the cadaver dogs from Georgia.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on June 23, 2016, 11:21:18 PM
http://www.localnews8.com/news/private-investigation-team-cadaver-dog-search-for-missing-toddler-deorr-kunz/40180768

An update today. Seems the little lad still hasn't been located.
Dad is now apparently working in Vegas, mum has a new boyfriend & is now known as Jessica Anderson.
There is still concerted support for the searches from other family members.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on June 26, 2016, 11:49:37 PM
Another update.

http://idahostatejournal.com/news/private-detective-firm-now-calling-deorr-kunz-case-a-possible/article_5855b905-2eb5-568d-bd5c-c72a9b60f550.html
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on June 28, 2016, 01:21:57 AM
Another update.

http://idahostatejournal.com/news/private-detective-firm-now-calling-deorr-kunz-case-a-possible/article_5855b905-2eb5-568d-bd5c-c72a9b60f550.html
The cadaver dog from Georgia has been busy

"the cadaver dog ... showed interest in four places on the mountain where the Timber Creek Campground is located. Klein would not say where the places of interest were, but he did say law enforcement officials will have to examine the areas further"

and

" 'We ran the cadaver dog through the residence, around the residence and through personal belongings still at the residence,' Klein said. Klein would not comment on exactly what evidence was gathered at that residence, but he did say it was turned over to law enforcement."

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on June 28, 2016, 01:35:11 AM
The video at http://www.localnews8.com/news/private-investigation-team-cadaver-dog-search-for-missing-toddler-deorr-kunz/40180768 is good.
The cadaver dog from Georgia is called Chase, and the handler is Trace.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on June 29, 2016, 01:00:31 AM
The video at http://www.localnews8.com/news/private-investigation-team-cadaver-dog-search-for-missing-toddler-deorr-kunz/40180768 is good.
The cadaver dog from Georgia is called Chase, and the handler is Trace.

Klein :- " when the dog hits on an area there is normally something there.......cadaver, blood, vomit......."

That's interesting.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 04, 2016, 01:37:42 PM

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 12, 2016, 01:27:35 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/isaac-reinwand-nothing-hide-deorrs-disappearance/

Will comment after I have listened to the interview but IR's evidence seems to blow a big hole in the PI's notion that Deorr Jr was never at the campsite.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 14, 2016, 12:32:05 AM
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2016/07/12/what-happened-to-deorr-kunz

Informative interview with Sheriff Bowerman.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 15, 2016, 09:33:24 PM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/isaac-reinwand-nothing-hide-deorrs-disappearance/

Will comment after I have listened to the interview but IR's evidence seems to blow a big hole in the PI's notion that Deorr Jr was never at the campsite.
I listened to all 3 parts of the interview and believe IR is telling the truth., therefore the sheriff's hypothesis that the child possibly never arrived at the campsite is incorrect.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 15, 2016, 09:41:01 PM
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2016/07/12/what-happened-to-deorr-kunz

Informative interview with Sheriff Bowerman.
audio 33:30 to 34:10 http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2016/07/12/what-happened-to-deorr-kunz
Cadaver dog alerted to a truck
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 15, 2016, 09:56:57 PM
audio 33:30 to 34:10 http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2016/07/12/what-happened-to-deorr-kunz
Cadaver dog alerted to a truck

I believe we knew that already and that tests on the bodily fluid recovered was inconclusive & contained insufficient DNA.
I don't know what to make of it all. There are people on a F/Book page saying after 3 days the granddad was asking if there was to be a funeral. JM & VK allegedly fiiled their truck up with gas twice in 10 hours.
 Four people failing polygraphs......I wonder what really happened up there?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 16, 2016, 12:29:09 AM
I believe we knew that already and that tests on the bodily fluid recovered was inconclusive & contained insufficient DNA. (snip)
Must be dried fluid?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 16, 2016, 12:50:23 AM
Must be dried fluid?

http://www.localnews8.com/news/private-investigator-cadaver-dog-proves-there-was-a-death/38307992
March 2nd 2016

*Snipped*

Original Story: The private investigator hired by the Deorr Kunz family said a cadaver dog scented blood or other bodily fluid on a piece of equipment while searching for the boy’s body. He said the evidence proves there was a death.

Philip R. Klein of Klein Investigations and Consulting spoke with reporter Chelsea Brentzel Wednesday. He wouldn’t say what the piece of equipment was or when the cadaver dogs found it.

“We believe it is important for the public to know that the cadaver dog did hit in three certain areas of the pieces of equipment which does indicate there was a death or there was some type of fluid, cerebral fluid, blood whatever it may be, that was in the location where the dog hit, and that we know there was a death,” said Klein.


Lemhi County sheriff’s office isn’t confirming what Klein is saying.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This seems to be at odds with Sheriff Bowerman's comments during the radio interview a couple of days ago. He said that the LE had shared none of their findings with Klein. It's unclear at what stage the dogs allegedly alerted to the truck but I would assume it must have been within the first few weeks after the disappearance.
Am I correct in remembering that it was said Vernal, Jessica & Deorr slept in the granddad's trailer on the first night?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 16, 2016, 01:09:29 AM
IMO the cadaver dog hits on the "equipment" or "truck" were by dog Chance and handler TS this summer 2016.
Chance and TS were hired by Klein. Therefore Klein would know the results and he would communicate the results to police.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 16, 2016, 01:15:36 AM
Do we know which of the 2 trucks Chance alerted to?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 16, 2016, 01:23:54 AM
Do we know which of the 2 trucks Chance alerted to?

Not that I can recall but there were references made to the spade which granddad always carried in his truck when IR gave his timeline to the TV station.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 16, 2016, 02:30:48 AM
(snip) ... Am I correct in remembering that it was said Vernal, Jessica & Deorr slept in the granddad's trailer on the first night?
IMO:
The parents and the child drove there in a pickup truck with extended cab.
The grandpa and his friend drove there in a Suburban (brand of vehicle) pulling a trailer (caravan).
The grandpa slept in the trailer, his friend slept in a tent, the parents and child slept in the back of grandpa's Suburban.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 18, 2016, 12:44:06 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/private-investigator-issues-lengthy-report-deorr-kunz-case/

EDITOR’S NOTE: Philip Klein, a private civil investigator based in Texas, has been investigating the disappearance of Idaho Falls toddler DeOrr Kunz, Jr. since last fall.

Klein released a full report on the case Saturday evening. It is posted in its entirety below.

Klein is not a police officer and cannot make arrests or conduct an official investigation of the case. Additionally, law enforcement investigators have not confirmed to EastIdahoNews.com any information or details contained in this report.

The release
We are issuing the following report to the people of Idaho whom have donated money in order to further the investigation into the disappearance of DeOrr Kunz, Jr., a three year old child. The following is our report to the public.

Background

KIC Texas was brought into the case after turning it down two times in the late summer and fall of 2015. The family had no money to hire an investigator and through family and friends applied for funding from KIC Texas.

In November of 2015 KIC Texas agreed to take the case and through fundraisers with the general public $29,201 was raised for the investigation of which $20,000 was used for investigators and equipment travel and hotels only.

Investigator hourly cost and all other costs have been donated by the Klein foundation that is funded by KIC Texas and the stockholders of KIC. DeOrr Kunz Sr. agreed to be the figurehead on the contractual side only if the public would provide the funding for the case. We have no idea what happened to the $9,201 other money given.

DeOrr Kunz was a three year old male allegedly fathered by Vernal DeOrr Kunz and mothered Jessica Mitchell Anderson of the State of Idaho.

During a camping trip on July 10, 2015, Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell Anderson reported to 911 Idaho that their son DeOrr was missing at a camp ground near Leador Idaho. Massive searches were undertaken within 5 sq miles of the site where it is alleged the child went missing. There was no trace evidence found.

Agencies Involved

The following public and private agencies are currently investigating this incident :

Lemhi County Sheriff’s Department – Lead Criminal Agency
Bonneville Sheriff’s Department – Idaho Falls, Idaho – Backing Agency
USDOJ – FBI – Backing Agency
USDOJ – FBI – Washington DC – Missing Children’s Division / Lab
KIC Texas – Child Rescue Team 7 – Lead Civil
Mr. Frank Viltz – Private Investigator (resigned)
Currently, all active agencies are sharing information, leads, and theory based information through a hard drive set up and accessed through each department / agency. Further, communications are made between the groups on a regular basis as needed.

Previous Findings

KIC Texas came into the case in November of 2015 “cold.” KIC did not review, read, or correspond with any agency or media group until after phase one was established in the investigation. This phase included but was not limited to 1) interviews with family, friends, relatives, witnesses and site location information.

Post completion of phase one – it was determined the following theories needed to be examined:

An animal or Large animal had taken the child for food.
The forced or unforced kidnapping had occurred, up to and including a “sale of the child.”
A homicide being either by accident or intentional.
During phase two each of the investigation each theory was examined and compared to the witness statements of each of the family members. As well, an extensive timeline was created based upon the parents and those whom were at the camp ground on that day. Equally, each and every witness was re-interviewed and evidence was recovered. As well, comparison with documents, statements and evidence held by the USDOJ, Lemhi County SO and Bonneville County SO was had.

Phase three began in March of 2016 (after the public was advised) as all of the information was gathered, placed together, timelines completed and witness interviews completed. After careful analysis of the information it was determined as follows :

There was no evidence the child was taken by an animal.
There was no evidence that a forced or unforced kidnapping had occurred.
There was evidence that a homicide had occurred by either accident or intentional means.
Further timelines and witnesses were reviewed and applied to the theory. During this period it was discovered that manipulation and outright deception was undertaken by Vernal Kunz, Jessica Mitchell Anderson and Robert “Bob” Walton. It was further found that after refusing to speak with KIC Investigators, that Issac Reinwand came forward to investigators and gave four statements.

After examination of such – the following conclusions based upon evidence at hand was made :

1. Vernal Kunz was deceptive, had failed five (5) polygraph examinations and had told six different stories. Vernal Kunz was declared a suspect in a homicide either by accident or intentional means.
2. Jessica Mitchell Anderson was deceptive, had failed four (4) polygraph examinations and had told five different stories. Jessica Anderson was declared a suspect in a homicide either by accident or intentional means.
3. Robert “Bob” Walton was deceptive, had told two stories to KIC investigators, and was inconclusive on his polygraph examinations. Bob Walton was declared a person of interest or witness in a homicide either by accident or intentional means.
4. Issac Reinwand was truthful, had told the same story to KIC investigators and Law Enforcement four times. However, some details had been left out of one of the stories. After review Reinwand was declared a person of interest as a witness in a homicide either by accident or intentional means.
The above stated findings have not changed and in fact have become stronger post phase three of this investigation. We are in full agreement with Law Enforcement’s findings.

Current Status of Investigation

The following are the current public notes regarding the status of this investigation :

Search of June 2016

In June of 2016 investigators arrived in Leador, Id, and completed a five day targeted search. Investigators flew in Tracy Sargent and her dog “Chance” who is a well known and well respected searcher from the state of Georgia. As well, the team flew in MJ “Jane” Holmes, of the state of Georgia whom is well known for her advanced interview and operations skills. During the five day operation, law enforcement agents from both Lemhi and Bonneville Counties were represented.

During the five day operation the following objectives were met :

Time distance study to fully verify or disprove Vernal Kunz’s timeline.
Time distance study to fully verify or disprove Jessica Mitchell Anderson’s timeline.
Cell Phone Impact and Signal Study of known directional “pings” in investigators possession.
Site location study to verify or disprove the testimony by witnesses to KIC and Law Enforcement.
Dog Search – to verify or disprove the testimony to KIC and Law Enforcement.
A secondary dog search in the city of Idaho Falls, ID, at two locations.
The following were the results :

The time distance study failed to verify Vernal Kunz’s testimony in his timeline.
The time distance study failed to verify Jessica Mitchell Anderson’s testimony in her timeline.
The Cell Phone Impact study was able to determine that Vernal Kunz’s testimony was fabricated. As well it was determined that Vernal Kunz’s testimony that he drove 1.5 miles to get a cell signal was not truthful.
The site location study was successfully completed and it was determined that the testimony of Kunz, Anderson and Walton not only could not be verified, but physically according to their statements to KIC and Law Enforcement, the events as portrayed could not have occurred.
The dog study presented five areas of “hits” further explained below.
The secondary dog study was productive and is further explained below.
Tracy Sargent’ Report of Findings

Investigator Sargent reports the “Chance” whom is a trained cadaver dog hit five different unknown targets. Chance is trained on human decomposition and human blood pathogen decomposition.

The following are the hits (limited) :

1. “Diaper Tree Area” – This is the area to which it was testified that “a diaper” was hung in the tree in the campground.
2. 139 Feet East of the Cattle Guard in the camp ground – in a loose ground area.
3. 10 Feet Due East of camp site.
4. 2.24 miles due Northeast of the 15 mp stake, in the ravine near 221 southeast fence.
5. Camp site ground .75 miles due East of the camp ground.

Area 1 : There was no evidence obtained.
Area 2 : Excavation was undertaken by LE and KIC – this area needs to be further exhumed and was turned over to Law Enforcement for further investigation by their team.
Area 3 : This area was excavated by hand – and found that a previous animal had been buried at this location. During the burial the subject who did the burial cut his hand and bled into a towel wrapped around the animal.
Area 4 : Investigators have turned this area over to law enforcement.
Area 5 : Investigators believe this site may have been a “holding site” for some type of human body.

There was no other evidence found.

Secondary Search Sites

Area 1 : The Clegg Residence in Idaho Falls, ID, was searched with permission. The house, trailers, camping equipment and other equipment (other than a shovel) was cleared. It is important to note that Trina Clegg has not been named a suspect and investigators have no evidence to suggest such. We are unclear if she has any information – however – she testifies she has no information. Her 2nd polygraph is pending with the USDOJ FBI.

Area 2 : Investigators searched by permission in the 900 block of Ada, Idaho Falls, Id, which is the former residence of Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell. Both had been evicted for not paying rent and had left in the apartment furniture and clothing. In such, the landlord had cleaned out the apartment and move all of the articles to near the dumpster for removal as the property had been declared “abandoned” by the landlord. Investigators were given permission to search the abandoned waste by the landlord. During the search we will report investigators found the following :

1. Four matchbox cars described previously by the parents as “missing and they did not know where they were.”
2. A camo child’s jacket similar to being described by both parents as being worn on the day of the event and suggested to be missing with the child.
3. A credit card used by a family friend with seemingly purchases of items unknown to investigators in testimony.
4. An insurance tracking device box and instruction package.

All evidence was turned over to Lemhi County SO for further testing with the USDOJ – FBI.

Preliminary Findings of Phase Four – Search

Investigators have taken four weeks to review the finds of this operation and herein make the following preliminary findings report to the public of Idaho :

1. We believe that the parents being Vernal Kunz and Jessica Anderson are deceptive with intent to cover up a crime.
2. We believe that our investigation now starts regarding an intentional homicide.
3. We now have no evidence other than the testimony of the four persons on the site on July 10, 2016, that indicates that DeOrr Kunz, Jr., a minor child, was on the mountain as testified by these witnesses.
4. We believe that the parents, through family members, and through friends in social media (although a very limited audience), have begun a misinformation operation on behalf of Deorr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell to impugn the jury pool, mislead the media, mislead law enforcement, and mislead investigators with KIC Texas as well as the public in general.
5. We have now, due to the testimony of all witnesses including store employees, clerks, beer distribution drives, fuel handlers, and credible witnesses that have given credible testimony, that we cannot find any person that saw the child go up to the mountain either the day of the event – or the evening before. We therefore are now moving our timeline of the event back to 5 p.m. of the day before the 911 call was made.

Conclusion of Report

We the investigators (Team 7) on this case want to assure the public that we working everyday on this case. We do not see this case as a cold case as of yet – but that will be determined by Law Enforcement and not our team. We fully believe that this case is solvable. We fully believe in the Law Enforcement of the county – and we believe in the dedicated men and women of the FBI that are working hard on this case. They are wonderful dedicated men and women.

Further, I cannot say enough about the dedicated team at KIC – from the team from Georgia to our offices in Southeast Texas. Each person every day comes by my office and talks about the case and wants to come up with new angles. We do not make statements loosely – we make them based on fact.

We further want to urge you all to remember when you read suggestions, you read information, or you see something somewhere that you think is out of place – it probably is. When people start attacking Law Enforcement and our team just smile and know they have nothing other to offer. It is okay because we are hard working dedicated investigators with really thick skin. We could care less what some blogger or Facebook site manager has to say because they are not privy to the evidence that we all have and continue to discover, however, we equally do not want to discourage it either as sometimes one of the administrators or writers or fake profile writers says something that nobody knows outside of the investigators. It helps us build our case.

Lastly, we have opened an investigation on two Facebook administrators, as they have leaked information regarding the investigation only known to investigators on the case. We have made contact with the administrator but they will not return our call (s). We hope that the person will consider calling us as one piece of information they may have could break the case open.

Thank you again for your thoughtful comments and you’re not so thoughtful comments in the social media sector. We are a country of freedoms – being one of them freedom of speech. However, we encourage you to think before you push “enter” and post. You may be misled and may need to consider your actions in the end.

Philip R. Klein, TPLI – PPO
Sr. Investigator / Team Leader “Team 7”
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 18, 2016, 12:56:55 AM
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 19, 2016, 08:30:51 PM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/private-investigator-issues-lengthy-report-deorr-kunz-case/

EDITOR’S NOTE: Philip Klein, a private civil investigator based in Texas, has been investigating the disappearance of Idaho Falls toddler DeOrr Kunz, Jr. since last fall.

Klein released a full report on the case Saturday evening. It is posted in its entirety below.

Klein is not a police officer and cannot make arrests or conduct an official investigation of the case. Additionally, law enforcement investigators have not confirmed to EastIdahoNews.com any information or details contained in this report.

The release
We are issuing the following report to the people of Idaho whom have donated money in order to further the investigation into the disappearance of DeOrr Kunz, Jr., a three year old child. The following is our report to the public.

Background

KIC Texas was brought into the case after turning it down two times in the late summer and fall of 2015. The family had no money to hire an investigator and through family and friends applied for funding from KIC Texas.

In November of 2015 KIC Texas agreed to take the case and through fundraisers with the general public $29,201 was raised for the investigation of which $20,000 was used for investigators and equipment travel and hotels only.

Investigator hourly cost and all other costs have been donated by the Klein foundation that is funded by KIC Texas and the stockholders of KIC. DeOrr Kunz Sr. agreed to be the figurehead on the contractual side only if the public would provide the funding for the case. We have no idea what happened to the $9,201 other money given.

DeOrr Kunz was a three year old male allegedly fathered by Vernal DeOrr Kunz and mothered Jessica Mitchell Anderson of the State of Idaho.

During a camping trip on July 10, 2015, Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell Anderson reported to 911 Idaho that their son DeOrr was missing at a camp ground near Leador Idaho. Massive searches were undertaken within 5 sq miles of the site where it is alleged the child went missing. There was no trace evidence found.

Agencies Involved

The following public and private agencies are currently investigating this incident :

Lemhi County Sheriff’s Department – Lead Criminal Agency
Bonneville Sheriff’s Department – Idaho Falls, Idaho – Backing Agency
USDOJ – FBI – Backing Agency
USDOJ – FBI – Washington DC – Missing Children’s Division / Lab
KIC Texas – Child Rescue Team 7 – Lead Civil
Mr. Frank Viltz – Private Investigator (resigned)
Currently, all active agencies are sharing information, leads, and theory based information through a hard drive set up and accessed through each department / agency. Further, communications are made between the groups on a regular basis as needed.

Previous Findings

KIC Texas came into the case in November of 2015 “cold.” KIC did not review, read, or correspond with any agency or media group until after phase one was established in the investigation. This phase included but was not limited to 1) interviews with family, friends, relatives, witnesses and site location information.

Post completion of phase one – it was determined the following theories needed to be examined:

An animal or Large animal had taken the child for food.
The forced or unforced kidnapping had occurred, up to and including a “sale of the child.”
A homicide being either by accident or intentional.
During phase two each of the investigation each theory was examined and compared to the witness statements of each of the family members. As well, an extensive timeline was created based upon the parents and those whom were at the camp ground on that day. Equally, each and every witness was re-interviewed and evidence was recovered. As well, comparison with documents, statements and evidence held by the USDOJ, Lemhi County SO and Bonneville County SO was had.

Phase three began in March of 2016 (after the public was advised) as all of the information was gathered, placed together, timelines completed and witness interviews completed. After careful analysis of the information it was determined as follows :

There was no evidence the child was taken by an animal.
There was no evidence that a forced or unforced kidnapping had occurred.
There was evidence that a homicide had occurred by either accident or intentional means.
Further timelines and witnesses were reviewed and applied to the theory. During this period it was discovered that manipulation and outright deception was undertaken by Vernal Kunz, Jessica Mitchell Anderson and Robert “Bob” Walton. It was further found that after refusing to speak with KIC Investigators, that Issac Reinwand came forward to investigators and gave four statements.

After examination of such – the following conclusions based upon evidence at hand was made :

1. Vernal Kunz was deceptive, had failed five (5) polygraph examinations and had told six different stories. Vernal Kunz was declared a suspect in a homicide either by accident or intentional means.
2. Jessica Mitchell Anderson was deceptive, had failed four (4) polygraph examinations and had told five different stories. Jessica Anderson was declared a suspect in a homicide either by accident or intentional means.
3. Robert “Bob” Walton was deceptive, had told two stories to KIC investigators, and was inconclusive on his polygraph examinations. Bob Walton was declared a person of interest or witness in a homicide either by accident or intentional means.
4. Issac Reinwand was truthful, had told the same story to KIC investigators and Law Enforcement four times. However, some details had been left out of one of the stories. After review Reinwand was declared a person of interest as a witness in a homicide either by accident or intentional means.
The above stated findings have not changed and in fact have become stronger post phase three of this investigation. We are in full agreement with Law Enforcement’s findings.

Current Status of Investigation

The following are the current public notes regarding the status of this investigation :

Search of June 2016

In June of 2016 investigators arrived in Leador, Id, and completed a five day targeted search. Investigators flew in Tracy Sargent and her dog “Chance” who is a well known and well respected searcher from the state of Georgia. As well, the team flew in MJ “Jane” Holmes, of the state of Georgia whom is well known for her advanced interview and operations skills. During the five day operation, law enforcement agents from both Lemhi and Bonneville Counties were represented.

During the five day operation the following objectives were met :

Time distance study to fully verify or disprove Vernal Kunz’s timeline.
Time distance study to fully verify or disprove Jessica Mitchell Anderson’s timeline.
Cell Phone Impact and Signal Study of known directional “pings” in investigators possession.
Site location study to verify or disprove the testimony by witnesses to KIC and Law Enforcement.
Dog Search – to verify or disprove the testimony to KIC and Law Enforcement.
A secondary dog search in the city of Idaho Falls, ID, at two locations.
The following were the results :

The time distance study failed to verify Vernal Kunz’s testimony in his timeline.
The time distance study failed to verify Jessica Mitchell Anderson’s testimony in her timeline.
The Cell Phone Impact study was able to determine that Vernal Kunz’s testimony was fabricated. As well it was determined that Vernal Kunz’s testimony that he drove 1.5 miles to get a cell signal was not truthful.
The site location study was successfully completed and it was determined that the testimony of Kunz, Anderson and Walton not only could not be verified, but physically according to their statements to KIC and Law Enforcement, the events as portrayed could not have occurred.
The dog study presented five areas of “hits” further explained below.
The secondary dog study was productive and is further explained below.
Tracy Sargent’ Report of Findings

Investigator Sargent reports the “Chance” whom is a trained cadaver dog hit five different unknown targets. Chance is trained on human decomposition and human blood pathogen decomposition.

The following are the hits (limited) :

1. “Diaper Tree Area” – This is the area to which it was testified that “a diaper” was hung in the tree in the campground.
2. 139 Feet East of the Cattle Guard in the camp ground – in a loose ground area.
3. 10 Feet Due East of camp site.
4. 2.24 miles due Northeast of the 15 mp stake, in the ravine near 221 southeast fence.
5. Camp site ground .75 miles due East of the camp ground.

Area 1 : There was no evidence obtained.
Area 2 : Excavation was undertaken by LE and KIC – this area needs to be further exhumed and was turned over to Law Enforcement for further investigation by their team.
Area 3 : This area was excavated by hand – and found that a previous animal had been buried at this location. During the burial the subject who did the burial cut his hand and bled into a towel wrapped around the animal.
Area 4 : Investigators have turned this area over to law enforcement.
Area 5 : Investigators believe this site may have been a “holding site” for some type of human body.

There was no other evidence found.

Secondary Search Sites

Area 1 : The Clegg Residence in Idaho Falls, ID, was searched with permission. The house, trailers, camping equipment and other equipment (other than a shovel) was cleared. It is important to note that Trina Clegg has not been named a suspect and investigators have no evidence to suggest such. We are unclear if she has any information – however – she testifies she has no information. Her 2nd polygraph is pending with the USDOJ FBI.

Area 2 : Investigators searched by permission in the 900 block of Ada, Idaho Falls, Id, which is the former residence of Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell. Both had been evicted for not paying rent and had left in the apartment furniture and clothing. In such, the landlord had cleaned out the apartment and move all of the articles to near the dumpster for removal as the property had been declared “abandoned” by the landlord. Investigators were given permission to search the abandoned waste by the landlord. During the search we will report investigators found the following :

1. Four matchbox cars described previously by the parents as “missing and they did not know where they were.”
2. A camo child’s jacket similar to being described by both parents as being worn on the day of the event and suggested to be missing with the child.
3. A credit card used by a family friend with seemingly purchases of items unknown to investigators in testimony.
4. An insurance tracking device box and instruction package.

All evidence was turned over to Lemhi County SO for further testing with the USDOJ – FBI.

Preliminary Findings of Phase Four – Search

Investigators have taken four weeks to review the finds of this operation and herein make the following preliminary findings report to the public of Idaho :

1. We believe that the parents being Vernal Kunz and Jessica Anderson are deceptive with intent to cover up a crime.
2. We believe that our investigation now starts regarding an intentional homicide.
3. We now have no evidence other than the testimony of the four persons on the site on July 10, 2016, that indicates that DeOrr Kunz, Jr., a minor child, was on the mountain as testified by these witnesses.
4. We believe that the parents, through family members, and through friends in social media (although a very limited audience), have begun a misinformation operation on behalf of Deorr Kunz and Jessica Mitchell to impugn the jury pool, mislead the media, mislead law enforcement, and mislead investigators with KIC Texas as well as the public in general.
5. We have now, due to the testimony of all witnesses including store employees, clerks, beer distribution drives, fuel handlers, and credible witnesses that have given credible testimony, that we cannot find any person that saw the child go up to the mountain either the day of the event – or the evening before. We therefore are now moving our timeline of the event back to 5 p.m. of the day before the 911 call was made.

Conclusion of Report

We the investigators (Team 7) on this case want to assure the public that we working everyday on this case. We do not see this case as a cold case as of yet – but that will be determined by Law Enforcement and not our team. We fully believe that this case is solvable. We fully believe in the Law Enforcement of the county – and we believe in the dedicated men and women of the FBI that are working hard on this case. They are wonderful dedicated men and women.

Further, I cannot say enough about the dedicated team at KIC – from the team from Georgia to our offices in Southeast Texas. Each person every day comes by my office and talks about the case and wants to come up with new angles. We do not make statements loosely – we make them based on fact.

We further want to urge you all to remember when you read suggestions, you read information, or you see something somewhere that you think is out of place – it probably is. When people start attacking Law Enforcement and our team just smile and know they have nothing other to offer. It is okay because we are hard working dedicated investigators with really thick skin. We could care less what some blogger or Facebook site manager has to say because they are not privy to the evidence that we all have and continue to discover, however, we equally do not want to discourage it either as sometimes one of the administrators or writers or fake profile writers says something that nobody knows outside of the investigators. It helps us build our case.

Lastly, we have opened an investigation on two Facebook administrators, as they have leaked information regarding the investigation only known to investigators on the case. We have made contact with the administrator but they will not return our call (s). We hope that the person will consider calling us as one piece of information they may have could break the case open.

Thank you again for your thoughtful comments and you’re not so thoughtful comments in the social media sector. We are a country of freedoms – being one of them freedom of speech. However, we encourage you to think before you push “enter” and post. You may be misled and may need to consider your actions in the end.

Philip R. Klein, TPLI – PPO
Sr. Investigator / Team Leader “Team 7”

I find it rather puzzling that Klein can produce a report saying that IR is the only one who has consistently told the truth, when that truth is at odds with what the investigator believes.
Maybe the credit card or the car tracking device will be key to solving the case.
Part of me thinks the tot is very much alive somewhere.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 20, 2016, 02:27:31 AM
I find it rather puzzling that Klein can produce a report saying that IR is the only one who has consistently told the truth, when that truth is at odds with what the investigator believes .... (snip)
IMO Klein's logic is that all four of IR's statements are consistent -  there are no significant changes from statement to statement.
Have you considered that he is telling the truth and simply did not witness, and is unaware of,  what happened?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 20, 2016, 10:33:13 PM
IMO Klein's logic is that all four of IR's statements are consistent -  there are no significant changes from statement to statement.
Have you considered that he is telling the truth and simply did not witness, and is unaware of,  what happened?

If IR's statements are consistent & truthful then Klein's analysis that Deorr never made it to the campsite is flawed.
There is something not right - I never got the impression Vernal was lying - so maybe there was another outside party involved, unbeknown to IR.
 
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 23, 2016, 03:24:50 AM
If IR's statements are consistent & truthful then Klein's analysis that Deorr never made it to the campsite is flawed.
... (snip)
Yes IR states very clearly that the child was definitely at the campsite.
I am convinced he is telling the truth IMO.
Therefore the "child never arrived at campsite" theory is drastically wrong IMO
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 23, 2016, 03:40:51 AM
The most important bit IMO:
"Reinwand recalls arriving at the fishing spot 300 to 400 feet from the campsite. Mitchell was with him, but Reinwand says Kunz and DeOrr were not.."
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/isaac-reinwand-nothing-hide-deorrs-disappearance/
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 26, 2016, 12:14:11 AM
According to this source, while the child was at the campsite the toy cars were in his pocket - presumably the pocket of the camo jacket he was wearing.

“He had little toy hot wheel trucks in his pocket"
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 26, 2016, 12:55:32 AM
According to this source, while the child was at the campsite the toy cars were in his pocket - presumably the pocket of the camo jacket he was wearing.

“He had little toy hot wheel trucks in his pocket"
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

According to that same report, baby Deorr had lived in his granddad's house for 18 months ( I presume that is Dennis Kunz).
The camo jacket & the cars were apparently found by the PI in the skip of contents from another home JMA & VK were evicted from - so presumably there was no search warrant. Something is not quite right - where were the jacket & toys when the police first searched the campsite? No inspection by the cadaver dog?

I'm just watching this, Pegasus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwxqz_525DE&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 26, 2016, 02:53:20 PM
According to that same report, baby Deorr had lived in his granddad's house for 18 months ( I presume that is Dennis Kunz).
The camo jacket & the cars were apparently found by the PI in the skip of contents from another home JMA & VK were evicted from - so presumably there was no search warrant. Something is not quite right - where were the jacket & toys when the police first searched the campsite? No inspection by the cadaver dog?

I'm just watching this, Pegasus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwxqz_525DE&feature=youtu.be
The house (which the child's parants had been evicted from) was searched by KIC "with permission" presumably given by the owner of the house, therefore no search warrant would be required to search the house and the outdoor pile of rubbish.
The big issue is - is the camo jacket found in the rubbish pile the same camo jacket that had been worn at the campsite?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 26, 2016, 09:16:50 PM
The house (which the child's parants had been evicted from) was searched by KIC "with permission" presumably given by the owner of the house, therefore no search warrant would be required to search the house and the outdoor pile of rubbish.
The big issue is - is the camo jacket found in the rubbish pile the same camo jacket that had been worn at the campsite?

I'm getting rather sceptical about all this.
Did the local LE or the FBI not search this property? Why were those potentially incriminating items left to be dumped? None of it makes any sense - except that it appears KIC are producing all the "evidence". Where have we seen that before? (Hope you had a wry smile at some of the remarks in the last 10 minutes of that BrainScratch video!)
 
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 27, 2016, 04:51:21 PM
I'm getting rather sceptical about all this.
Did the local LE or the FBI not search this property? ... (snip)
Do we know what date the parents moved to the property we're discussing? Maybe they moved there after the initial LE/FBI investigation?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 28, 2016, 05:05:45 PM
Do we know what date the parents moved to the property we're discussing? Maybe they moved there after the initial LE/FBI investigation?

I get the impression they were already in the property prior to the camping trip but am currently looking for definitive information.
In the meantime, there is a Q&A with Klein on the company's F/B page if you haven't already seen it.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 28, 2016, 09:31:32 PM
(snip) there is a Q&A with Klein on the company's F/B page (snip)
Thanks Misty, 249 questions with answers, interesting
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 29, 2016, 12:20:55 AM
@Misty I looked at all the 200+ questions and answers and I picked out one phrase.
(The investigator is talking about evidence locations on the pickup truck).
"Wheel well"
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 29, 2016, 12:30:00 AM
Thanks Misty, 249 questions with answers, interesting

If I was one of the 4 persons of interest or local LE, I would be very uncomfortable about what Klein has disclosed.
His conjecture of death by blunt force trauma appears, once again, to be at odds with his insinuation Deorr was never at the campsite.
Let us hope that there are more answers when the results of tests on the camo jacket & cars are made public, together with the mysterious purchases on the friend's credit card.
I look at all the many photos of young Deorr taken during the months before this event and all I see is a very happy little boy showing no signs of neglect or abuse. His mum, where pictured with him, looks genuinely affectionate. It would be difficult to believe she is involved in harming him in some way.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 29, 2016, 12:57:06 AM
@Misty I looked at all the 200+ questions and answers and I picked out one phrase.
(The investigator is talking about evidence locations on the pickup truck).
"Wheel well"

I think Mr Klein has been reading too many Portuguese detective novels!

Is this the part you are referring to?

"Tracking dogs on hit on the truck. CD dogs never hit other than Vernal's truck, wheel base, back bumper and bed of truck".
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 29, 2016, 04:12:55 AM
I think Mr Klein has been reading too many Portuguese detective novels!

Is this the part you are referring to?

"Tracking dogs on hit on the truck. CD dogs never hit other than Vernal's truck, wheel base, back bumper and bed of truck".
I refer to (in the same Q and A session)
"a dog hitting on the wheel well, bumper and truck bed
... blood trace and spatter found in the same areas when lit up with a LL"

What you posted Misty adds the valuable information that it was the rear bumper.

Now an important language difference. In british "wheel well" often means "a recess for storing the spare wheel" - but in american it can mean something crucially different (and nothing to do with the spare) which is ..... .... (interested to see if you get same answer Misty?)
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 29, 2016, 11:56:11 AM
I refer to (in the same Q and A session)
"a dog hitting on the wheel well, bumper and truck bed
... blood trace and spatter found in the same areas when lit up with a LL"

What you posted Misty adds the valuable information that it was the rear bumper.

Now an important language difference. In british "wheel well" often means "a recess for storing the spare wheel" - but in american it can mean something crucially different (and nothing to do with the spare) which is ..... .... (interested to see if you get same answer Misty?)

It's what we call under the wheel arch, I think.
Here's the US definition. https://www.huskyliners.com/Wheel-Well-Guards-Wheel-Well-Liners

I thought that this evidence had been forensically tested & was not a match to young Deorr?  I'm pretty sure the  parents would have been arrested by now if it was.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 29, 2016, 02:11:09 PM
It's what we call under the wheel arch, I think.
Here's the US definition. https://www.huskyliners.com/Wheel-Well-Guards-Wheel-Well-Liners

I thought that this evidence had been forensically tested & was not a match to young Deorr?  I'm pretty sure the  parents would have been arrested by now if it was.
Yes that's same as I concluded Misty it means "wheel arch" .
Do you have a link for "forensically tested & was not a match" please.

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 29, 2016, 03:13:31 PM
A recent KIC statement says "area 2" located by dog "Chance" is east of the "cattle guard".

I located the "cattle guard" and from where they camped it is about 0.45 km (0.27 miles) downhill along the track towards town.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 29, 2016, 04:25:17 PM
I now have a hypothesis what happened which begins like this.
1. Each of the adults thought another of the adults was watching the child. This situation has happened in other cases, it can happen very easily, and I see no reason to disbelieve it.
2. The child wanders off alone, most likely downhill along the track towards the cattle guard.
3. After some time, the adults realise the child is missing.
4. The adults begin searching.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 29, 2016, 09:36:05 PM
Yes that's same as I concluded Misty it means "wheel arch" .
Do you have a link for "forensically tested & was not a match" please.

Please bear with me on the link; I just have a recollection of reading/hearing about the forensics somewhere. It's going to take a few nights of reading to find what I'm looking for.
Having gone back to the very beginning (using Websleuths) there are conflicting statements about blood & cerebral fluids. However, didn't Klein say that his team hadn't examined Vernal's truck - and Sheriff Bowerman said that he'd shared no LE evidence with Klein in his recent radio interview?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 29, 2016, 10:20:17 PM
I now have a hypothesis what happened which begins like this.
1. Each of the adults thought another of the adults was watching the child. This situation has happened in other cases, it can happen very easily, and I see no reason to disbelieve it.
2. The child wanders off alone, most likely downhill along the track towards the cattle guard.
3. After some time, the adults realise the child is missing.
4. The adults begin searching.

I'd go along with part of that. I think GGP fell asleep and the parents were away from the site considerably longer than 15 minutes. What happened next, I don't know.

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 30, 2016, 02:37:37 AM
I'd go along with part of that. I think GGP fell asleep and the parents were away from the site considerably longer than 15 minutes. What happened next, I don't know.
What if the child wanders away from the the campsite, gets tired and falls asleep on the ground?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 30, 2016, 05:13:42 PM
IMO the child wandered away from the campsite during the time he was accidentally unsupervised.
Why didn't the immediate foot search find him?
After wandering off, is it possible he fell asleep somewhere out of sight?
Here is something to back up the hypothesis

"he was playing ... he was getting ready for a nap
 ... by that time it was almost two (o'clock) and he usually takes his nap"

Source: At 8m47s in http://youtu.be/mwM1oG3z358
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 30, 2016, 06:25:28 PM
IMO the child wandered away from the campsite during the time he was accidentally unsupervised.
Why didn't the immediate foot search find him?
After wandering off, is it possible he fell asleep somewhere out of sight?
Here is something to back up the hypothesis

"he was playing ... he was getting ready for a nap
 ... by that time it was almost two (o'clock) and he usually takes his nap"

Source: At 8m47s in http://youtu.be/mwM1oG3z358


All of that makes sense - he was tired & crotchety when VK bought him the candy bar at the store, he could have fallen asleep somewhere in the brush & would have been difficult to spot, especially wearing a camo jacket & dark boots BUT:-
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/
from about 2m20s the father spoke about the excellent search & rescue helicopter(s).
This interview was uploaded 3 days after Deorr went missing but I'm unaware how quickly the 'copters were brought in. With the heat-seeking cameras, I'd be surprised if they missed a living child within the radius searched.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 30, 2016, 08:08:08 PM

All of that makes sense - he was tired & crotchety when VK bought him the candy bar at the store, he could have fallen asleep somewhere in the brush & would have been difficult to spot, especially wearing a camo jacket & dark boots BUT:-
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/
from about 2m20s the father spoke about the excellent search & rescue helicopter(s).
This interview was uploaded 3 days after Deorr went missing but I'm unaware how quickly the 'copters were brought in. With the heat-seeking cameras, I'd be surprised if they missed a living child within the radius searched.
Thankyou Misty, useful thoughts about the helicopter.

What if the child wanders off some distance, then falls asleep - not on open ground of very short grass, and not in the woods, but in an intermediate area of long grass or sagebrush (between the dirt road and the woods).

IMO it would be quite possible for the initial search on foot (which is stated to have lasted about 20 minutes) to miss him in long grass or sagebrush etc.

To explain why the heat-vision helicopter which arrived much later found nothing, would require a further sequence of events starting after the initial 20 minute foot search .....
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 30, 2016, 09:01:52 PM
Thankyou Misty, useful thoughts about the helicopter.

What if the child wanders off some distance, then falls asleep - not on open ground of very short grass, and not in the woods, but in an intermediate area of long grass or sagebrush (between the dirt road and the woods).

IMO it would be quite possible for the initial search on foot (which is stated to have lasted about 20 minutes) to miss him in long grass or sagebrush etc.

To explain why the heat-vision helicopter which arrived much later found nothing, would require a further sequence of events starting after the initial 20 minute foot search .....

The search & rescue dogs didn't locate any scent outside the camping area, so it doesn't really fit with him with him wandering off (although not impossible, I agree, so the recently-found camo jacket & cars will be crucial).
 It does suggest he could have been carried away or removed in a vehicle, although I'm not sure what scent trail there would have been had he fallen over the ridge & down into the creek.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 30, 2016, 10:16:55 PM
The search & rescue dogs didn't locate any scent outside the camping area, so it doesn't really fit with him with him wandering off (although not impossible, I agree, so the recently-found camo jacket & cars will be crucial).
 It does suggest he could have been carried away or removed in a vehicle, although I'm not sure what scent trail there would have been had he fallen over the ridge & down into the creek.
IMO we can't assume that search and rescue dogs will always be able to follow a wandered child's scent - it depends greatly on the conditions.

For example tracker dogs did not manage to track the route 2-yr old Baby Rainn walked.
And tracker dogs did not manage to track the route 2-yr old Issac Leuenberger walked.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 30, 2016, 11:14:26 PM
IMO we can't assume that search and rescue dogs will always be able to follow a wandered child's scent - it depends greatly on the conditions.

For example tracker dogs did not manage to track the route 2-yr old Baby Rainn walked.
And tracker dogs did not manage to track the route 2-yr old Issac Leuenberger walked.

Deorr was wearing large wellingtons, pyjama bottoms which must have been tucked inside the  boots and also a long-sleeved jacket so virtually the only skin cells being deposited would have been from his head.
Isaac Leuenberger had covered a few kilometres before he was finally found.
The search for Rainn was hindered by waist-deep grass - I suppose it depends if the dogs were air-scenting or ground tracking trained.
The searches for Deorr have been so extensive over a long period of time, I don't understand why they haven't found him if he merely wandered. However, the apparent discovery of a jacket & the cars opens up a real can of worms. Someone close may have been trying to set Jessica & Vernal up.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on July 31, 2016, 02:42:03 AM
(snip) The searches for Deorr have been so extensive over a long period of time, I don't understand why they haven't found him if he merely wandered.... (snip)
Consider the situation at the moment the child was discovered missing
"... and I come back up from the creek ... I yelled over to grandpa ... 'Where's little Deorr?' ... he says 'I thought he came up to you'."  Source 9m11s http://youtu.be/mwM1oG3z358

1. At this point in time, the child is not at the the campsite IMO.
2. At this point in time, no vehicle has been driven yet therefore the child cannot have left the campsite in a vehicle IMO.
3. Therefore at this point in time, the child has already left the campsite, by foot IMO.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 02, 2016, 09:54:43 PM
Consider the situation at the moment the child was discovered missing
"... and I come back up from the creek ... I yelled over to grandpa ... 'Where's little Deorr?' ... he says 'I thought he came up to you'."  Source 9m11s http://youtu.be/mwM1oG3z358

1. At this point in time, the child is not at the the campsite IMO.
2. At this point in time, no vehicle has been driven yet therefore the child cannot have left the campsite in a vehicle IMO.
3. Therefore at this point in time, the child has already left the campsite, by foot IMO.

"came UP to you"? - where was "up" from the camping site?
 Isaac was DOWN at the creek but close enough to see & hear GGP pacing along the ridge.
IMO GPP was supposed to be watching him, that much I believe. The discovery of the camo jacket & the cars changes everything after that so I will reserve further judgement until those forensic results are known.
I don't subscribe to Klein's blunt trauma theory nor a vehicle accident. I still haven't located the part about the forensics on the truck, but it dates back to March or before & right now I'm losing interest in all the different threads & videos.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 03, 2016, 03:35:07 AM
"came UP to you"? - where was "up" from the camping site? (snip)
The fishing place the parents went to see was upstream from the campsite.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 04, 2016, 03:29:49 AM
Snip)...I don't subscribe to ... vehicle accident... (snip)
IMO there was no vehicle accident before the searches began, nor during the initial foot-only search, Misty.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 04, 2016, 04:28:02 PM
IMO there was no vehicle accident before the searches began, nor during the initial foot-only search, Misty.

There are some good photos here, Pegasus, if you haven't already seen them.. http://randomtopics.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=1611&start=20

I'm not sure in which direction IR, JMA & VK went initially to view a fishing spot but they parted company & went in opposite directions so one party went back past the campsite. It's still no clearer where young Deorr was at that stage.
In all likelihood, he went in that creek but I'm still going to wait for news on the jacket. Klein is attempting a big stitch-up imho.

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 12, 2016, 03:58:54 AM
http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/Uther3/Working%20Uploads%203/Arial1_zpsjcasy9f0.jpg
Blue line is the creek and it flows from top to bottom of map.
The place marked "parents" is upstream from the campsite, this is the meaning of "up" in statement
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 12, 2016, 04:08:31 AM
IMO a plauible scenario, first part only, is that while unsupervised he wandered a fair distance and laid down in vegetation for a sleep (he usually took a nap at about 2).
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 16, 2016, 01:35:51 AM
IMO a plauible scenario, first part only, is that while unsupervised he wandered a fair distance and laid down in vegetation for a sleep (he usually took a nap at about 2).


If he settled down for a sleep, wouldn't his scent have pooled in the one location & therefore more easily located by the search & rescue dogs?
IR's "missing hour" concerns me, His version of the timeline concerns me. The insinuations of alcohol & alleged drug use are a concern. Most of all, Klein's recent attitude bothers me a lot. (DK Jr Voices F/B)
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 16, 2016, 04:03:31 AM

If he settled down for a sleep, wouldn't his scent have pooled in the one location & therefore more easily located by the search & rescue dogs?
IR's "missing hour" concerns me, His version of the timeline concerns me. The insinuations of alcohol & alleged drug use are a concern. Most of all, Klein's recent attitude bothers me a lot. (DK Jr Voices F/B)
I posted examples of cases where toddlers wandered then slept, and trcker dogs did not track them. It all depends on the wind rain etc conditions IMO. So IMO wandering then sleeping is a plausible theory for the pre-vehicular-search period.
BTW if you insist that the tracker dogs are always perfect (I don't think they are), that would indicate that he left the campsite in the Blazer.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 16, 2016, 09:08:47 PM
I posted examples of cases where toddlers wandered then slept, and trcker dogs did not track them. It all depends on the wind rain etc conditions IMO. So IMO wandering then sleeping is a plausible theory for the pre-vehicular-search period.
BTW if you insist that the tracker dogs are always perfect (I don't think they are), that would indicate that he left the campsite in the Blazer.

It's a plausible theory, granted, but I find it hard to believe that both S&R dogs, cadaver dogs & lots of people did not locate the lad alive or dead. I'm not saying the dogs are perfect - a child emits a different scent to an adult - & it depends how they were trained.
Deorr slept in the Blazer, didn't he, so his scent should have been inside it. I wonder what happened to Missy, the dog which accompanied the group on the trip?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 17, 2016, 12:54:20 AM
Deorr slept in the Blazer, didn't he, ... (snip)
No-one slept the night in the Blazer. The child and his parents slept in Ggpas's Suburban. Ggpa slept in his trailer. IR slept in a tent.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 17, 2016, 01:01:38 AM
@Misty I read on facebook etc about a supposed  interview in which VK supposedly says something about child putting arm inside truck tail-pipe. But I can't find the  interview anywhere, hoping you might have a link?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 17, 2016, 01:05:16 AM
The child and his parents slept in Ggpas's Suburban. Ggpa slept in his trailer. IR slept in a tent.No-one slept in the Blazer.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/isaac-reinwand-nothing-hide-deorrs-disappearance/
*snipped*
“I set up camp and helped start a fire,” Reinwand says. “We set everything up and Bob slept in his camper. I slept in a tent. Jessica, (Vernal) DeOrr and the baby slept in the back of Bob’s blue Blazer.”
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 17, 2016, 01:25:04 AM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2016/07/isaac-reinwand-nothing-hide-deorrs-disappearance/
*snipped*
“I set up camp and helped start a fire,” Reinwand says. “We set everything up and Bob slept in his camper. I slept in a tent. Jessica, (Vernal) DeOrr and the baby slept in the back of Bob’s blue Blazer.”
IMO IR is possibly mistaken in calling ggpa's vehicle a Blazer. IMO it was a Suburban..

For example from a post by TBC (ggpa's daughter):
"My Dad's suburban and camper"

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 17, 2016, 01:46:39 AM
http://www.truecrimeradio.com/radio-archives/sheriff-lynn-bowerman-radio-archive-jan-2016/
At 26:32 Sherrif Bowerman states that ggpa's vehicle was a Suburban.

So ggpa was driving a blue Chevy Suburban, towing a camper (caravan).
And VK was driving a black Chevy Blazer pickup truck.

This is why the child and parents slept in the Suburban - because it has lots of room to lay down  - unlike the Blazer cab
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 17, 2016, 02:04:35 AM
http://www.truecrimeradio.com/radio-archives/sheriff-lynn-bowerman-radio-archive-jan-2016/
At 26:32 Sherrif Bowerman states that ggpa's vehicle was a Suburban.

So ggpa was driving a blue Chevy Suburban, towing a camper (caravan).
And VK was driving a black Chevy Blazer pickup truck.

This is why the child and parents slept in the Suburban - because it has lots of room to lay down  - unlike the Blazer cab

IR knew the correct colours of the vehicles but mixed up the models - I wonder why? Rehearsed speech?
Have you listened to "breakfast & the tail pipe"?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 18, 2016, 12:25:13 AM
IR knew the correct colours of the vehicles but mixed up the models - I wonder why? Rehearsed speech?
Have you listened to "breakfast & the tail pipe"?
1. It is certainly an honest mistake by IR (probably not a driver) - Suburban and Blazer both Chevys have very similar stying and probably same front end, doors, wheels, etc  - Suburban looks like a Blazer with a roof on the back.
2. Thanks Misty B&TTP is exactly what I was looking for - an extraordinary video.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 18, 2016, 01:07:23 AM
1. It is certainly an honest mistake by IR (probably not a driver) - Suburban and Blazer both Chevys have very similar stying and probably same front end, doors, wheels, etc  - Suburban looks like a Blazer with a roof on the back.
2. Thanks Misty B&TTP is exactly what I was looking for - an extraordinary video.

I believe IR is more into pushbikes than trucks which is why I'm surprised he knew the model name of VK's vehicle.

Have you read anything about what the group actually did on the first night, apart from making a fire & setting up camp?

What are your thoughts on the B&TTP video


Picture of Vernal & his truck. There is a better one elsewhere but I can't remember where I saw it atm.

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 18, 2016, 04:00:42 AM
Two more views IMO of VK truck
http://youtu.be/KJ5jneZnzws?t=3m9s
http://i.picpar.com/Pz8b.png
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 18, 2016, 04:10:09 AM
...What are your thoughts on the B&TTP video ...
Amongst many points of interest...
At 35s he says "my trucks" (plural)
At 1m11s does he say "my Dodge"?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 18, 2016, 11:55:34 AM
It should be possible to identify VK truck from this photo
http://i.picpar.com/Pz8b.png
IMO it is  a Dodge Ram 1991-1993 Clubcab.
Biggest clue is the guttering.
Found a poster on websleuths who reached same conclusion:
"after looking into it a bit more I think it may be a early 90's Dodge RAM"
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 18, 2016, 02:43:35 PM
It should be possible to identify VK truck from this photo
http://i.picpar.com/Pz8b.png
IMO it is  a Dodge Ram 1991-1993 Clubcab.
Biggest clue is the guttering.
Found a poster on websleuths who reached same conclusion:
"after looking into it a bit more I think it may be a early 90's Dodge RAM"

So IR was correct in saying GGP's Blue Blazer?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 18, 2016, 03:33:38 PM
So IR was correct in saying GGP's Blue Blazer?
IMO ggpa'a vehicle was a Chevy Suburban or possibly a Chevy TrailBlazer which looks very similar to a Chevy Suburban.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Suburban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_TrailBlazer
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 18, 2016, 03:57:07 PM
Am now almost certain VK's vehicle http://i.picpar.com/Pz8b.png was a Dodge Ram Clubcab 1991-1993 (see rain gutter design, and the position of front side indicator repeater).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Pickup#/media/File:1991-93_Dodge_Ram_250_Club_Cab_Cummins.jpg
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 18, 2016, 09:11:11 PM
Amongst many points of interest...
At 35s he says "my trucks" (plural)
At 1m11s does he say "my Dodge"?

I believe he drives haulage trucks for a living (I have also seen a photo on F/B of him beside a massive lorry)
Yes, he does say "my Dodge".
I agree with your analysis of VK's truck model so IR was correct in his interview.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 19, 2016, 12:25:53 AM
Is it possible he crawled under the Dodge while unsupervised and went to sleep under it?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 19, 2016, 12:36:04 AM
Is it possible he crawled under the Dodge while unsupervised and went to sleep under it?

It's possible, but wouldn't there have been blood & skin tissue  on the ground after DK drove away to get a better phone signal? (doesn't bear thinking about).
IMO GGP was the one who dropped off to sleep for a period of time. What happened next is dependant on where the other 3 really were during that time.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 19, 2016, 01:10:25 AM
You've provided a good argument against the went to sleep under pickup truck theory Misty.
Is there any way the child could have climbed up onto the cargo bed of the pickup truck, if the tailgate was open, and gone to sleep there?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 19, 2016, 01:13:25 AM
(snip) ... IMO GGP was the one who dropped off to sleep for a period of time. What happened next is dependant on where the other 3 really were during that time.
Yes but IMO it is probable that the child went to sleep somewhere because this was his usual nap time according to a video interview.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 19, 2016, 01:39:10 AM
Yes but IMO it is probable that the child went to sleep somewhere because this was his usual nap time according to a video interview.

Without his blanket, cup & monkey?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 19, 2016, 01:49:46 AM
You've provided a good argument against the went to sleep under pickup truck theory Misty.
Is there any way the child could have climbed up onto the cargo bed of the pickup truck, if the tailgate was open, and gone to sleep there?

Yes, that would be possible by climbing onto the side exhaust pipe and/or  the rear bumper. The cargo bed appears quite low.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 19, 2016, 02:50:42 AM
Yes, that would be possible by climbing onto the side exhaust pipe and/or  the rear bumper. The cargo bed appears quite low.
If the tailgate is open then most of the rear bumper is covered but maybe can climb on bumper to side of tailgate?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 19, 2016, 02:59:22 AM
Without his blanket, cup & monkey?
I do not believe that he carried them everywhere.
In camo jacket photo he has no blanket no cup no monkey.
In Bear Lake photo he has no blanket no cup no monkey.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 19, 2016, 09:27:17 PM
I do not believe that he carried them everywhere.
In camo jacket photo he has no blanket no cup no monkey.
In Bear Lake photo he has no blanket no cup no monkey.

No, he didn't carry them everywhere but there are some photos which show him with them (more than MM with CC).
In a strange place (which I'm not entirely sure he'd seen during the previous daylight hours) I think young Deorr would be looking for something familiar to go to sleep with in the absence of his parents. From my experience a tired child, fighting sleep but still walking, tends to whinge rather vocally. It doesn't explain why GGP can't account for how Deorr walked away from the campsite unseen & unheard.

ETA photo. Getting ready to go to bed with cup & blanket?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 20, 2016, 01:40:18 AM
No, he didn't carry them everywhere but there are some photos which show him with them (more than MM with CC).
In a strange place (which I'm not entirely sure he'd seen during the previous daylight hours) I think young Deorr would be looking for something familiar to go to sleep with in the absence of his parents. From my experience a tired child, fighting sleep but still walking, tends to whinge rather vocally. It doesn't explain why GGP can't account for how Deorr walked away from the campsite unseen & unheard.

ETA photo. Getting ready to go to bed with cup & blanket?
Yes that is sippy cup and blanket but no monkey, and in other photos he has none of them.
In camo jacket photo he holds a bowl of snack, and in lake photo he holds a ball.
So basically the statement "he always carries cup blanket and monkey" is nonsense.
BTW I measured cattle guard (see list of Chance locations) is only 400m away.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 20, 2016, 02:08:36 AM
Yes that is sippy cup and blanket but no monkey, and in other photos he has none of them.
In camo jacket photo he holds a bowl of snack, and in lake photo he holds a ball.
So basically the statement "he always carries cup blanket and monkey" is nonsense.
BTW I measured cattle guard (see list of Chance locations) is only 400m away.

I don't think the statement was meant to be taken quite so literally.
There are dozens of photos of DK on various family F/B pages & I think he was much-loved by his dad in particular.
Is the cattle guard up or downstream, please? (I really am rubbish with Google Earth)
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 20, 2016, 02:46:52 AM
I don't think the statement was meant to be taken quite so literally.
There are dozens of photos of DK on various family F/B pages & I think he was much-loved by his dad in particular.
Is the cattle guard up or downstream, please? (I really am rubbish with Google Earth)
The campsite is where on ge you can see a very long "fifth-wheel" camper attached to a pickup truck.
From the campsite, the cattle guard is about 400m NNE (downstream).
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 26, 2016, 05:30:20 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/pctvQpByb372
cattle guard
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 26, 2016, 05:39:25 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/sRo8y9Yys8t
campsite
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 26, 2016, 11:43:45 PM
Thank you for those pictures. I could get the campsite itself before but when I start wandering the terrain & direction confuses me.
Why do you think the cattleguard is important?

Also, have you seen log cabins situated at any of the 12 campsites?
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 27, 2016, 01:58:25 PM
(snip) Why do you think the cattleguard is important? (snip)
Several reasons Misty.
1. The cattle guard is downhill and only 400m from the campsite. Downhill is an instinctive wandering direction, and 400m is well within the distance 2yr olds are proven to have wandered in some other cases (and not been tracked by dogs).

2. The cattle guard has fence extending to both sides forming a barrier to continuation of downhill wandering.

3. In the 3 part IR interview, IR states that the real reason the father drove off in the truck was to search for the child down by the cattle guard. This makes much more sense than the searching for a signal tale.

4. In the long report released by KIC, one of the locations alerted by Chance is 139 feet from the cattle guard.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 29, 2016, 01:06:46 AM
Several reasons Misty.
1. The cattle guard is downhill and only 400m from the campsite. Downhill is an instinctive wandering direction, and 400m is well within the distance 2yr olds are proven to have wandered in some other cases (and not been tracked by dogs).

2. The cattle guard has fence extending to both sides forming a barrier to continuation of downhill wandering.

3. In the 3 part IR interview, IR states that the real reason the father drove off in the truck was to search for the child down by the cattle guard. This makes much more sense than the searching for a signal tale.

4. In the long report released by KIC, one of the locations alerted by Chance is 139 feet from the cattle guard.
OK. Presumably local LE/FBI have by now investigated the location of the cadaver dog alert close to the cattleguard.
I'm still a bit confused. Is the cattleguard beside the road into the campsite? I thought VK/JM went upstream from the campsite when they left with IR? JM kept looking back?
Why would VK head down, not up, to get a signal (we know he used his phone at the same time as JM who was at the site with GGP). How did GPP & IR get up to Stone Reservoir & back before JM made her call?
Too many discrepancies in the IR timeline - maybe a result of too much whiskey the previous night.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 29, 2016, 02:14:54 AM
OK. Presumably local LE/FBI have by now investigated the location of the cadaver dog alert close to the cattleguard.
I'm still a bit confused. Is the cattleguard beside the road into the campsite? I thought VK/JM went upstream from the campsite when they left with IR? JM kept looking back?
Why would VK head down, not up, to get a signal (we know he used his phone at the same time as JM who was at the site with GGP). How did GPP & IR get up to Stone Reservoir & back before JM made her call?
Too many discrepancies in the IR timeline - maybe a result of too much whiskey the previous night.
Here IMO is the cattle guard, probably similar to a UK cattle grid, to stop cattle getting through along the track.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/44%C2%B035'09.7%22N+113%C2%B027'43.7%22W/@44.5859583,-113.4621394,156m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d44.586014!4d-113.462129

From campsite, cattle guard is downstream about 400m, on the way to Leadore.
From campsite, the nearest end of stone reservoir is upstream about 310 metres, easily walked in a few minutes.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 29, 2016, 01:19:41 PM
...Why would VK head down, not up, to get a signal...?
IMO to drive from the campsite to a higher elevation you have to drive downhill first.
For example 172A then double-back on either 172 or 172B.
IMO one of those must be the track referred to in a video interview as the high road overlooking the campsite.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 29, 2016, 06:46:32 PM
IMO to drive from the campsite to a higher elevation you have to drive downhill first.
For example 172A then double-back on either 172 or 172B.
IMO one of those must be the track referred to in a video interview as the high road overlooking the campsite.

I'll have another look at GE, see if I can get a better perspective.
One point - what made the cattleguard so memorable to IR yet his memory of Deorr seemed almost non-existent?
Have you seen this video? http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 29, 2016, 07:19:34 PM
An interesting post from another site about the number of people around the camp area & the cabins.

""It is my personal opinion that he is in the reservoir, OR another area of water.
My family who has participated in the searches, as well as word I'm hearing from them is
that many have hinky meters going through the roof. I hope he is lost, and hiding out somewhere and
this doesn't end up being a criminal case, BUT; as you know we here at WS have followed many many missing
child cases and maybe that makes us more hypersensitive to how different people grieve, vs. what may in fact be the norm
for that particular person or persons.
The area of the camping spot is wide open, and there were many families there that weekend.
Due to decomp, if he is in that water or other water beds, bloat would have already occurred and I would assume (not 100%) he would be floating
at the surface by now.
Remember the case of Russell and Shirley, in Georgia? she was even tied down heavily as to prevent floating to the surface, and she still did.
I truly, truly hope this is not the case of our little guy here.
I might also mention, there are cabins everywhere in that area. They are spread out from one another, and some are close, MAYBE he found one to hide in. Gosh wouldn't that be awesome?""
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pegasus on August 29, 2016, 08:58:24 PM
I'll have another look at GE, see if I can get a better perspective.
One point - what made the cattleguard so memorable to IR yet his memory of Deorr seemed almost non-existent?
Have you seen this video? http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/
Thanks for that early video which states that tracker dogs led towards the reservoir.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 29, 2016, 10:45:03 PM
Thanks for that early video which states that tracker dogs led towards the reservoir.

Not once, but twice, reportedly.
IR & RW went up to the reservoir  to check. Judging by the pictures of it, it's not somewhere that could be "searched" in the time frame before the 911 call.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on September 25, 2016, 12:10:54 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zr6r0ozYYY

A series of great pictures of the campsite which may interest you, Pegasus.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on September 26, 2016, 02:23:51 AM
Picture of search area, showing how close outhouse is to the campsite.










Also:-

.......The distance between Timber Creek and Stone Reservoir is about a quarter of a mile and takes an adult about 30 minutes to walk due to the steep and rocky terrain.............
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2268110/deorr-kunz-jr-search-update-investigation-being-re-directed-as-search-scales-back-on-missing-idaho-toddler/#IKJLQsDozfHpFWVG.99G

Between 12 noon (when IR woke up again) to around 1.45pm.....RW & IR went up to Stone Reservoir, looked at fishing holes, went back to camp, set up fishing at creek, did some fishing, went back to camp..........



Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on September 27, 2016, 02:23:52 AM
http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/deorre-missing-no-suspects-but-persons.html

Comments.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on October 19, 2016, 03:18:26 AM
https://youtu.be/kldk9CWDvuc
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on December 01, 2016, 01:03:23 AM
Please come back, Pegasus. People miss you.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on February 28, 2017, 06:38:58 PM
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2017/02/deorrs-father-disputes-claims-in-new-video-that-he-could-hurt-his-child/?t=32018


Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on May 19, 2017, 11:04:37 PM
http://idahostatejournal.com/outdoors/xtreme_idaho/new-developments-in-deorr-kunz-jr-case/article_80a16fa0-e520-5b24-b96e-9ef6e4d0f1b8.html

LEADORE — Searches for DeOrr Kunz Jr. will resume at Timber Creek Campground within the next few weeks.

Lemhi County Sheriff Steve Penner tells EastIdahoNews.com he is planning to have crews back at the campsite once weather permits.

“We’re going to be there working again, and we will see where that takes us,” Penner says.

DeOrr was 2 years old when he vanished while on a camping trip with his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of his grandfather on July 10, 2015.

There has been no sign of the toddler since that day, and nobody has been charged in connection to his disappearance.

The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is working on an age progression photo of what DeOrr could look like today if he’s still alive, Penner said.

“They do an age progression two years after a child has gone missing and then every five years,” Penner says. “That image should be released by the end of the month or the first part of June.”

Penner is expecting phone calls and possible sightings of DeOrr once the image is released. Although DeOrr’s parents, Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell, have been named suspects in his disappearance, Penner hasn’t ruled anything out.

“I’ve said in the past that we keep everything open to every possibility,” Penner says. “In this case, obviously, the investigation has driven us further in one direction than the other but we still have to keep it open.”

Mitchell, along with her grandfather, Robert Walton, and Walton’s friend, Isaac Reinwand, have continued to cooperate with law enforcement, according to Penner. Vernal Kunz has hired an attorney, and “we haven’t spoken in quite a while,” Penner says.

Meanwhile, court documents obtained by EastIdahoNews.com show a lawsuit filed by Vernal Kunz, Jessica Mitchell and Dennis Kunz, Vernal’s father, against private investigator Philip Klein has been dismissed.

The lawsuit concerned public statements Klein made about the case.

Klein was never served with the lawsuit, according to the documents, and Vernal Kunz and Dennis Kunz plan to refile the suit without Mitchell.

Penner says the lawsuit is a distraction from the fact that DeOrr is still missing.

“Two years is a long time,” Penner says. “I’m hoping for a resolution soon. It won’t come if we don’t work for it. I’ll keep working and I’ll keep looking.
=================================================================
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 01, 2017, 01:09:07 AM
https://www.eastidahonews.com/2017/06/deorrs-grandmother-i-will-keep-searching-for-him-until-the-day-i-die/

IDAHO FALLS — The grandmother of missing toddler DeOrr Kunz Jr. says she will keep returning to the Timber Creek Campground in Lemhi County until her grandson is found or until the day she dies.

Trina Bates Clegg spoke with East Idaho Newsmakers about the case in a 38-minute interview that will be posted Sunday on EastIdahoNews.com.

DeOrr was 2 years old when he vanished while on a camping trip with his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of his great-grandfather on July 10, 2015. There has been no sign of the toddler since that day, and nobody has been charged in connection to his disappearance.

DEORR’S GRANDMOTHER: I WILL KEEP SEARCHING FOR HIM UNTIL THE DAY I DIE
DEORR KUNZ JR. 0  Updated at 10:25 am, June 30th, 2017 By: Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com
SHARE THIS STORY

IDAHO FALLS — The grandmother of missing toddler DeOrr Kunz Jr. says she will keep returning to the Timber Creek Campground in Lemhi County until her grandson is found or until the day she dies.

Trina Bates Clegg spoke with East Idaho Newsmakers about the case in a 38-minute interview that will be posted Sunday on EastIdahoNews.com.

DeOrr was 2 years old when he vanished while on a camping trip with his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of his great-grandfather on July 10, 2015. There has been no sign of the toddler since that day, and nobody has been charged in connection to his disappearance.



Clegg said even though it’s been nearly two years since DeOrr disappeared, she plans to return to Timber Creek Campground next weekend to search for the boy. She’s inviting the public to help and hopes to get answers.

“Until I know in my heart that I’ve covered every inch of that area, which may never happen in my lifetime, but until I feel confident that I’ve covered more areas and I’ve seen more ground, I’ll go back there until the day I die. I don’t care if I’m 90 years old,” Clegg said.

The emotional twists and turns of the last two years have taken a toll on Clegg and her family. She believes errors have been made in the investigation, including when former Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman named Vernal Kunz and Jessica Mitchell, DeOrr’s parents, as suspects in the disappearance. Mitchell is Clegg’s daughter.

“I think if that’s what their suspicions were, they should have kept their mouths shut and pursued that,” Clegg said. “If you stole something from me and all of a sudden everyone keeps pointing fingers at you, what are you going to do with what you had stolen from me? Hide it, get rid of it, try to make it less suspicious. If (investigators) had just kept things quiet, maybe something would have come up.”

During her East Idaho Newsmakers interview, Clegg discussed a variety of aspects in the case, including private investigator Philip Klein, an age progressed photo of DeOrr recently released by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and her relationship with her daughter, Jessica.

“Everyone always asks me, ‘Why can’t you get (Jessica) to talk?’ I have sat in interrogation rooms and I’ve begged her. I threw pictures of baby Deorr in front of her and said, ‘All it takes is you to talk to them,'” Clegg said. “There was a time she was offered immunity. (They said) ‘Sign that piece of paper and tell us what happened. You can walk right out that door.’ Why wouldn’t she sign immunity if that’s the case?

Clegg continued, “I may get proved wrong. I can’t say that it may not happen, but as of right now, I have to believe in my heart the things that I’ve been told.”

‘Search For Answers For Baby DeOrr’ will be held July 8 to 9 at Timber Creek Campground in Lemhi County. Volunteer searchers are asked to wear appropriate shoes and bring food and water. Click here for more information.

A community vigil for DeOrr will be held at 7 p.m. July 10 at Freeman Park in Idaho Falls. Attendees are asking to bring a blue balloon and a candle. Click here for more information.

WATCH THE ENTIRE EAST IDAHO NEWSMAKERS INTERVIEW WITH TRINA BATES CLEGG ON SUNDAY ON EASTIDAHONEWS.COM.

===================================================================

I am led to believe from Facebook posts that Jessica will also be going to the campground. The snows have only recently thawed but there are no reports that LE have been up to the site again so far this year.
It's clear from this report that Trina has no knowledge of what happened to Deorr Jr. & IMO Jessica was not involved.

An age-progression photo showing what Deorr could now look like at 4 has been issued but the general consensus of opinion (including that of Jessica, his mum) in the USA of those following the case is the image looks like a much older child. I believe it was produced by the same organisation which issued Madeleine's age-progression photos.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on July 27, 2017, 01:16:49 AM
http://www.ktvb.com/mb/news/local/full-interview-with-jessica-mitchell-deorr-s-mother/456234929



http://www.ktvb.com/mb/news/local/full-interview-with-richard-jimenez-deorr-s-great-grandfather/456236282

Some interesting comments about the nature of the campground & criticism of the original Sheriff for a poorly conducted search & investigation.

Meanwhile, the PI, Klein, continues with his online dramatics.
A Q&A session.

https://www.facebook.com/WeWantAnswersforDeOrrKunzJr/
We Want Answers for DeOrr Kunz Jr
June 30 at 11:10pm ·
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 14, 2017, 11:11:36 PM
http://people.com/crime/people-magazine-investigates-deorr-kunz-vanished-woods/
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on November 14, 2017, 11:32:18 PM
http://people.com/crime/people-magazine-investigates-deorr-kunz-vanished-woods/

Thanks for that, Pathfinder; will watch it later.

Just had this through on google alerts too.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2017/11/lemhi-sheriff-issues-statement-regarding-deorr-kunz-jr/

The following is a news release from the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office.

On July 10, 2015, DeOrr Kunz, a two and a half-year-old toddler was reported missing from the Timber Creek Campground near Leadore, Idaho. At the time of his disappearance, DeOrr is believed to have been camping with his parents Jessica Mitchell and Vernal DeOrr Kunz, his grandfather Robert Walton, and family friend Isaac Reinwand.

On the day DeOrr was reported missing, a deputy and the local search and rescue commander arrived on the location where DeOrr was last seen within an hour and eighteen minutes of the Lemhi County Dispatch receiving the 911 call.Shortly thereafter, two more law enforcement officers arrived and deployed K-9 to help with the search. As the search for DeOrr continued, search teams, consisting of trained search and rescue members and local residents who were familiar with the area, were deployed on foot, motorcycle and ATVS. Additionally, two rescue boats with dive teams and a helicopter with FLIR capability were deployed to the campground to assist during the late hours of July 10 and on July 11, 2015.

RELATED | PREVIEW: Investigation Discovery to air hour-long DeOrr Kunz special tonight

The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office scaled back the search approximately ten days after DeOrr was reported missing, although intensive searches resumed in late July, early August and the early fall of 2015, and searches of the area were again conducted in 2016 and 2017. In addition to the multiple searches of the area, all of the persons with DeOrr at the time of his disappearance have been interviewed by law enforcement officers many times and law enforcement continues to have periodic contact with those individuals.

The Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office and Federal Bureau of Investigation joined the investigative efforts by assisting our agency shortly after DeOrr’s disappearance. We have worked with several law enforcement agencies across the country to follow up on reported sightings and tips from other states. In 2017, we worked with the NCMEC (National Center for Missing and Exploited Children) to release an age progression photo of DeOrr.

Since our investigation began, some private investigators have also started separate investigations. It’s imperative for the public to understand that the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office is the lead law enforcement agency in this case. Our office does receive assistance at our request from the Bonneville County Sheriff’s Office and the F.B.I. Private investigators and others don’t speak for us, as we don’t speak for them. Official statements and facts regarding the case will only come from the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office.

While there are several theories as to what may have happened to DeOrr, none of these theories have been confirmed by our office. Our investigators continue to work diligently to explore all possibilities. We can’t afford to close any doors or to let frustration drive the investigation in any single direction.

The focus of our office case has and always will be DeOrr. We determine our investigative course of action by continually re-evaluating prior searches and information, combining those facts with new relevant information. If you have any direct information or knowledge surrounding DeOrr’s disappearance, we strongly urge you to contact us. The most effective and efficient way to report a tip is by calling the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office at (208) 756-8980 or our tip line at (208) 756-4636 to remain anonymous.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So much for Philip Klein & his "entering the prosecutorial stage" all those months ago.
It's sad to think that, once again, the snow will halt the search around the campground.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 14, 2017, 11:53:24 PM
Here it is Misty

People Magazine Investigates premiere episode Lost in the Woods on Mon., Nov. 13, at 10 p.m. ET on Investigation Discovery.

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on November 16, 2017, 01:42:27 PM
Here it is Misty

People Magazine Investigates premiere episode Lost in the Woods on Mon., Nov. 13, at 10 p.m. ET on Investigation Discovery.


Thanks, P/F.

An update from Klein. Some of the comments under the article are quite interesting.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2017/11/private-investigator-philip-klein-withdraws-deorr-kunz-case/

NEDERLAND, Texas — Philip Klein and his private investigation firm KIC Texas have formally withdrawn from the DeOrr Kunz Jr. missing persons case.

Klein was originally hired by the Kunz family in early 2016 to investigate the disappearance of 2-year-old DeOrr.

The Idaho Falls toddler vanished in July 2015 while on a camping trip in Lemhi County with his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of his great-grandfather. There has been no sign of DeOrr since that day, and nobody has been charged in connection to his disappearance.

Klein was later fired by the family, but continued to investigate the case after being rehired by another unknown family member.

On Monday, Klein issued the following statement to the media about his reasons for the withdrawal. He declined to elaborate beyond the statement, saying “it speaks for itself.”

STATEMENT:


On Monday, November 13, 2017, KIC Texas provided formal notice to Steve Penner, Lemhi County Sheriff, that we would be withdrawing from the DeOrr Kunz case effective immediately. I would like to make the reasons for withdrawal very clear for the media and the general public:

We believe KIC Texas can no longer move this case forward. It is our firm belief that until truthfulness comes from the persons that we, as well as law enforcement, have named as suspects, there is nothing further to investigate. All evidence leads to the death of Deorr Kunz, Jr., we do not believe a kidnapping or animal attack occurred — and all evidence supports this finding.
We believe charges should be filed on the parents for child endangerment, at a minimum. We publicly ask the District Attorney of Lemhi County to strongly consider this charge.
We have recently become aware that Vernal DeOrr Kunz and his father Dennis Kunz have filed another lawsuit against our firm. This suit, as well as the misinformation campaign by certain social media trolls, appears to be a coordinated effort to impede the investigation. We are unable to continue our efforts in this case while simultaneously defending against a suit of this nature. As we have said: “The Truth Is The Ultimate Defense.”
We would like to publicly thank the citizens of Idaho for their open hearts and minds. We thank the businesses that offered us food, shelter and warm wishes. We thank the family members of Baby DeOrr who have pure and clean hearts, and have helped us understand the parent’s dysfunctional family dynamic.

We would also like to thank the many who we have interviewed. You are in great hands with Lemhi County Sheriff Penner, Bonneville County Sheriff, and the FBI. We believe Deorr Kunz, Jr. will be found one day.

=====================================================================

I will have to catch up on the fallout on Social Media later.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on March 08, 2018, 03:02:05 AM
http://www.littlemanlost.com/

6 short episodes & 4 vlogs.

A very interesting revelation about a blond hair, seen on the shovel which looked to Jessica like it had been recently used.


Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: kmoore1967 on May 28, 2018, 09:23:31 PM
It almost sounds like all the other Missing 411 cases that David Paulides writes about.

Now here is something that happened in North Carolina back in 2005, I think. Two small boys were at their grandparents' trailer home in Stokes County. They were put to bed for a nap as usual the same time. Their dad was coming to pick them up later.

Somehow these two little boys, one aged 5 and the younger aged 3, managed to open a locked screen, climb out the window, fall to the ground and walk away. They were spotted walking along the road several miles away only wearing underwear and the person who was driving knew them and stopped to get them, but they walked without looking at the person down to the riverbank of the Dan River. The person reported this to the police and there was a county wide search for them. They were find several miles down the river, drowned.

That's also like that Tennessee boy who disappeared in the 1960s who had never been seen again.

It's very strange.

Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on May 31, 2018, 01:08:43 AM
It almost sounds like all the other Missing 411 cases that David Paulides writes about.

Now here is something that happened in North Carolina back in 2005, I think. Two small boys were at their grandparents' trailer home in Stokes County. They were put to bed for a nap as usual the same time. Their dad was coming to pick them up later.

Somehow these two little boys, one aged 5 and the younger aged 3, managed to open a locked screen, climb out the window, fall to the ground and walk away. They were spotted walking along the road several miles away only wearing underwear and the person who was driving knew them and stopped to get them, but they walked without looking at the person down to the riverbank of the Dan River. The person reported this to the police and there was a county wide search for them. They were find several miles down the river, drowned.

That's also like that Tennessee boy who disappeared in the 1960s who had never been seen again.

It's very strange.

I guess it was somewhat "fortunate" for the parents of the 2 young boys that they were seen walking together towards the river or there may have been a miscarriage of justice there. Was it ever ascertained how they managed to leave their home by the method described?
Paulides has researched some interesting cases, particularly in Oregan & Crater Lake. Cody Sheehy & more notably Keith Parkins (age 2.5yrs) covered remarkable distances before eventually being found alive.
It is possible Deorr Jr did end up in the creek & was swept away, given that he appeared comfortable around water from family photos. However, the niggle of comments by others on SM about one of the group & his attitude regarding Deorr Jr's presence on the trip, coupled with his strange behaviour in the hours after the disappearance, remain.
I see that the family are trying to get NecroSearch involved. Possibly that may provide some answers.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 30, 2018, 07:19:57 PM
In 2016, Trace and Chance were asked by private investigators to help in the disappearance of two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr. Their search began in Idaho Falls and continued all along the path to Timber Creek Campsite where DeOrr was last seen. At the campsite, Chance picked up a scent.

"Chance did alert to an area right there within the campsite, so we checked. We took him out of it, the investigators stepped in. We dug that area up to see if there was any physical, tangible evidence that we could touch and feel and see. We didn't find any physical evidence, but what he is telling us, he indicated to us that there is human remain scent here."

The key, Trace reveals, is trying to figure out if the scent Chance hits on is related to the case or not. While they didn’t find any evidence that tied directly to the DeOrr Kunz case, Trace says she wasn’t able to fully rule it out either.

"I trust these dogs. Their nose is a lot better than me trying to think it through and using my mind to try and figure it out. It really is a team work effort. He doesn't do it by himself and I don't do it by myself. We really work together as a team."

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/investigations/little-man-lost/deorrs-mother-talks-about-accusations-against-her-little-man-lost-episode-6/277-524202931
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on June 08, 2019, 12:47:29 AM
https://www.eastidahonews.com/2019/06/investigators-searching-on-area-of-interest-in-search-for-deorr-kunz/

Nate Eaton, EastIdahoNews.com
DeOrr Kunz Jr.   Published at 1:00 pm, June 5, 2019    | Updated at 1:00 pm, June 5, 2019

LEADORE — Investigators are focusing on an “area of interest” in the search for DeOrr Kunz Jr., an Idaho Falls toddler who vanished while camping four years ago.

David Marshburn, a private investigator working with the Search for Me Foundation, has spent the past few days in Lemhi County with Sheriff Steve Penner. Marshburn brought two trained search dogs and confirmed in a Facebook post Wednesday that his job in Idaho is complete.

Penner tells EastIdahoNews.com he has been working with Marshburn and appreciates his contributions to the case.

“I can tell you we have focused and will be focused on an area of interest for the next few weeks,” Penner says. “I can confirm no new evidence has been collected at this time, and we continue to investigate this case.”

Penner did not elaborate on where that area is, though he did say he was there when he spoke to EastIdahoNews.com on Wednesday afternoon.

DeOrr vanished July 10, 2015, while at the Timber Creek Campground in Lemhi County with his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of his great-grandfather. There has been no sign of DeOrr since that day, and nobody has been charged in connection to his disappearance.

EastIdahoNews.com has reached out to Marshburn for additional comment. We will update this story if we receive new information.

“We can not confirm or deny anything at this time!” Marshburn wrote. “We will be returning to NC (North Carolina) because we feel our part is done. We would like to thank Sheriff Penner and his department for the hospitality. They made us feel like one of their own.”
================================================================

New dogs, to add to the 17+ deployed at the outset, + Tracy Sargeant & Chance a couple of years later, and now some new hits. I hope that Deorr Jr will soon be located.
For those of the mindset it was theparentswotdunit, Marshburn has posted on his own F/B page that Vernal & Jessica were up at the camping ground with him, assisting. Great grandpa Bob Walton has passed away.
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 28, 2019, 09:46:54 PM
Investigator: Cadaver dogs alert on human remains at campground where DeOrr Kunz Jr. disappeared

Private investigator David Marshburn told KTVB authorities may have finally gotten the break in the case they have been waiting for.

Author: KTVB Staff
Published: 2:27 PM MDT June 27, 2019
Updated: 7:50 AM MDT June 28, 2019

LEADORE, Idaho — A pair of dogs specially trained to detect human remains have alerted on an area in the Lemhi County campground where an Idaho toddler vanished without a trace nearly four years ago, according to a private investigator.

DeOrr Kunz Jr., 2, went missing during a family trip to Timber Creek Campground near Leadore on July 10, 2015. Extensive searches of the area have turned up no sign of the boy.

But on Thursday, North Carolina-based private investigator David Marshburn told KTVB authorities may have gotten the break in the case they have been waiting for.

Marshburn said he was asked by family friends and community members to take the case. He said he took his two trained cadaver dogs up to the Timber Creek Campground June 8, searching the area for about a week. He said he was accompanied by Lemhi County Sheriff Steve Penner during the searches.

It took some time for his dogs to acclimatize to the thinner mountain air, Marshburn said, but on the third day, both dogs separately performed "a hard alert" on a specific area of the campground, indicating the presence of a body or remains. The dogs have been trained only to alert on human remains, not a decomposing animal, he said.

According to Marshburn, his dogs are trained only with human cadavers, human bone and teeth so they only alert to human remains. He also added that the dogs are trained to detect remains up to six feet underground.

“Our dogs are cadaver dogs," he explained. "They find cadaver scent – human cadaver scent. So when they do an alert we are pretty confident that they’re finding remains of a human. But are we saying, or can we say it’s 100 percent DeOrr? No. Can we say it’s an Indian from way back? No. We don’t know what’s 100 percent there, we just know the confidence in our dogs that there is human remains of some sort there – it’s just, 'What?'”

The private investigator acknowledged the remains his dogs smelled could belong to someone other than the missing 2-year-old. But Marshburn stressed he was hired to locate DeOrr, and said he believes he has accomplished that.

 "I feel it, the closure that everybody needed," he said. After Marshburn's dogs' alert, Penner also brought in an independent cadaver dog, which alerted on the same area of the campground, he said. Marshburn would not say specifically where in the campground the dogs alerted.

The next steps will be up to the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office and local law enforcement to identify exactly what the dogs found.

“I know my dogs and I know what we do and they have their past history of finding people and I’m pretty confident – we feel we have got what we need," Marshburn told KTVB. "And we went back and now the sheriff’s office has got to do their part.”

Marshburn owns a nonprofit called Search For Me Foundation, which deals with missing persons cases. To date, Marshburn said he and his dogs have been part of helping solve 13 cases.

He tells KTVB community members raised $1,900 to bring Marshburn and his team to Idaho to help with the case. The rest of the  expenses were paid for out-of-pocket by he and his wife.

The Lemhi County Sheriff's Office announced Wednesday that the Timber Creek Campground will be closed Friday, June 28 through the weekend for a search connected to the DeOrr case.

The campsite was searched with cadaver dogs in the weeks after DeOrr went missing in 2015, but those dogs came up empty.

Former Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman has said publicly that he believes DeOrr is dead and that he considers the toddler's parents to be suspects, a body has not been recovered, and no charges have ever been filed.
 
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/investigator-cadaver-dogs-alert-on-human-remains-at-campground-where-deorr-kunz-jr-disappeared/277-b9dedc16-1e4d-4a63-b401-20b212b2f770
Title: Re: Twist in case of missing two-year-old DeOrr Kunz Jr as parents named suspects
Post by: misty on August 02, 2019, 02:00:19 AM
KTVB Special Report: DeOrr Kunz Jr.'s parents speak candidly about their son's disappearance (July2019)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ-fkvfDGnY



I defy anyone to not be moved by Vernal's words..
https://youtu.be/iJ-fkvfDGnY?t=1515   to 26m58s.