Author Topic: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.  (Read 165541 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #300 on: February 04, 2019, 04:24:25 PM »
And in 2011 Russell Tate was jailed for 16 years for his part in supplying cocaine and money laundering:

https://www.chelmsfordweeklynews.co.uk/news/8789229.rettendon-victims-brother-jailed-over-huge-drugs-conspiracy/

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #301 on: February 04, 2019, 04:36:23 PM »
It appears the solicitor acting for the defendants, Chris Bowen, qualified in 1995.  The trial started in Jan 1998.  Why would anyone think it a good idea to have someone so inexperienced heading up a high profile case such as 'The Rettendon murders'? 

Chris Bowen - Chris studied at Keele University and went on to Chester Law School. Originally from South Wales Chris worked in East Anglia, The Midlands and London before joining Alexander Johnson last year.

Chris has been a qualified solicitor since 1995 and has represented clients on many large cases including murder and importation cases. Chris has represented Mr. Michael Steele since 1998 when he was charged and later convicted of what became known as The Rettendon Murders in Essex in 1995. Chris continues to represent Mr. Steele on his current Appeal which it is hoped will be heard later this year. Chris has a wealth of experience of serious and, particularly, high profile cases.


http://www.internetpipelinesuk.com/portfolio/Alexander%20Johnson/html/the_team.htm

Correction.  Above I said the trial started Jan '98 when in fact it started in Sept 97 and ended Jan '98.  So it seems the solicitor acting for the defendants had less than 3 years experience.   I would have expected to see a solicitor with a minimum of 10 years experience dealing with this sort of case.  Absolute madness imo.  No doubt anyone assisting had even less experience!
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #302 on: February 05, 2019, 12:27:32 PM »
The following is interesting.  It's written by an academic who attempts to understand the machinations of 'Tuckers Gang' by analyzing the various accounts written by Ellis, Leach, Mahoney and  journalist Tony Tucker and media reports:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257771184_Tuckers_firm_A_case_study_of_British_organised_crime

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #303 on: February 05, 2019, 12:47:37 PM »
Does this case have the potential to be solved along the lines of Sam Hallam's case/conviction/acquittal?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18102336

From Lady Justice Hallett:

Lady Justice Hallett, who delivered the court's judgement, said Mr Hallam's "inability or unwillingness" to say where he was at the time of the murder had "not exactly helped his case".

But she added: "Given the attachment of young people and the more mature to their mobile phones, we can't understand why someone, either from the investigating team or the defence team, did not think to examine the phones attributable to the appellant.

"Given our limited knowledge, we would have thought that, even a cursory check would have produced some interesting results.

"Further, we would have thought the appellant would have alerted the defence team that he had been taking photos on a new phone which would have helped establish his whereabouts."


This is what I'm just not getting in this case, why were all mobiles phones not examined and geographical movements plotted based on mobile phone calls?  The info uploaded by Chud from expert David Bristowe shows info was made available to the defence re the location of Nicholls/Whomes when they exchanged the 2 x 18.59 calls.  Also the location of Steele when he made the 2 calls shortly after 6pm.  But what about Tate's geographical location when he received the call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44?  And what any other calls made/received by the murdered trio around this time where did this place them, or rather their mobiles, when any such calls were made/received.   

Tucker received numerous voice mail messages on his mobile.  What happens when a mobile goes into voice mail?  Is the message held somewhere until the message is retrieved and it is then routed through the nearest cell/mast or is it routed through the nearest cell/mast at the time the message is left?   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Chud

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #304 on: February 05, 2019, 02:13:55 PM »
Holly,

Thanks for all the subsequent information you have provided, you're obviously more mentally dexterous than me and I need time to process all this hence delays in my response :)

Regarding the last question, it's an interesting one. It is still unclear to me whether the mobile phones of Tate and Tucker were switched on after 19:00 that evening or whether they still had charge in the devices the following morning and were still actively in an "on" state. We know they didn't answer after that point (19:00) or make any outgoing calls. We know they were found both holding their phones but I cannot find any documentation relating to the service status of the phone at the time when they were discovered by the police.

From what I understand of older phone technology and modern for that matter, There are at least 2 scenarios for leaving messages which are 1. If the target phone is on, actively connected to a network but the recipient doesn't answer...... the call will be made, the mobile will connect to the recipients phone (leaving an audit through the network) and after a certain amount of rings will divert to voicemail automatically. The actual message being stored on the receiving mobiles provider storage server somewhere centrally. 2. If the phone is switched off, not active then the recipients network will know this and pass straight through to voicemail in the same way. The third option is when the mobile is active and connected but a manual override on the phone features sets all incoming calls to divert to voicemail.

I find this point interesting as it is similar to the lack of detail regarding other calls of importance you have mentioned previously. There seems to be no documented information as to what state the physical mobiles were in and whether they had been switched off sometime earlier. I'm sure mobiles either switching themselves off manually or failing due to lack power area alerted / flagged at the exchange as an event.

This of course does not answer any of the questions relating to the lack of available call data you mentioned previously.

Offline Chud

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #305 on: February 05, 2019, 04:45:11 PM »
Lol you couldn't make it up!  It appears Russell Tate tried to get away with his  involvement by telling the court his reason for getting involved was to get Steele nicked!  But the judge was not having any of it:

Judge Rucker said Tate had prepared an ingenious story as a way of explaining his involvement in the conspiracy but it did not simply bear the scrutiny of common sense and day-to-day experience of life - it was wholly untrue.  He said that listening to the evidence throughout the six-week trial, he did not believe for a moment Tate had ever suspected Steele of murdering his brother.

The article goes on...

Convicted murderer Michael Steele was said in court to have been a co-conspirator in bringing in cannabis from Belgium. He, along with three other men, has not yet faced trial for legal reasons.

I wonder what the legal reason were?   *%87

Did they ever face trial?  So in effect jurors did not get to hear the full story about the involvement of all these other people including Patrick Tate's brother, Russell Tate!

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Easy+money+of+drugs+costs+friends+30+months.-a060696603

This may go some way to explain why their trial was deferred or at least explain the process.

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2000/70.html

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #306 on: February 06, 2019, 11:57:05 AM »
Holly,

Thanks for all the subsequent information you have provided, you're obviously more mentally dexterous than me and I need time to process all this hence delays in my response :)

Regarding the last question, it's an interesting one. It is still unclear to me whether the mobile phones of Tate and Tucker were switched on after 19:00 that evening or whether they still had charge in the devices the following morning and were still actively in an "on" state. We know they didn't answer after that point (19:00) or make any outgoing calls. We know they were found both holding their phones but I cannot find any documentation relating to the service status of the phone at the time when they were discovered by the police.

From what I understand of older phone technology and modern for that matter, There are at least 2 scenarios for leaving messages which are 1. If the target phone is on, actively connected to a network but the recipient doesn't answer...... the call will be made, the mobile will connect to the recipients phone (leaving an audit through the network) and after a certain amount of rings will divert to voicemail automatically. The actual message being stored on the receiving mobiles provider storage server somewhere centrally. 2. If the phone is switched off, not active then the recipients network will know this and pass straight through to voicemail in the same way. The third option is when the mobile is active and connected but a manual override on the phone features sets all incoming calls to divert to voicemail.

I find this point interesting as it is similar to the lack of detail regarding other calls of importance you have mentioned previously. There seems to be no documented information as to what state the physical mobiles were in and whether they had been switched off sometime earlier. I'm sure mobiles either switching themselves off manually or failing due to lack power area alerted / flagged at the exchange as an event.

This of course does not answer any of the questions relating to the lack of available call data you mentioned previously.

How can it be evidenced that none of the trio actively received/made calls after Tate's received call from Sarah Saunders at 18.44?  If  the answer is phone records from tel comm co's did the defence obtain first hand?  If not were checks made to determine completeness and authenticity? 

Someone has uploaded Tucker's voice mail containing 26 messages.  These appear authentic.  The first call from Tucker's girlfriend, Anna, appears to have been answered but no response.  No idea of the time but given it appears from further messages she was in the Basildon area and due to be at a restaurant in Romford with Tucker at 8pm I would guess the call was around 6pm - 7pm. 

Anna makes numerous voice mail messages, as do others, concerned they haven't heard from him.  This extends through to the following morning.  No doubt similar was happening with the mobile phones of Rolfe and Tate.  I have not heard soc officers say anything about mobile phones ringing.

From personal experience mobile batteries improve all the time with the older ones having a shorter life.  From time to time I've left mobiles in the car overnight and have found on particularly cold nights the battery has been dead despite having been fully charged.  I've then put the phone on charge and within a couple of minutes it is fully charged.  This explains:

https://www.livescience.com/61334-batteries-die-cold-weather.html

Given the night was particularly cold and the rear passenger window of the Range Rover smashed the batteries may well have died especially when the mobiles of Tate and Tucker were exposed in their hands.  If Rolfe had a mobile in a pocket it may have afforded the battery some protection from the elements.

Anyway whatever the state of the phone/battery voicemail messages were left and retrieved hence the 26 for Tucker but which cell/mast are these calls routed through?  The cell/mast based on the location of the mobile when the message is left or the location of the mobile when it is retrieved or both?  Does the state of the phone/battery/voicemail set up determine the answer? 

I have not seen any arguments from the prosecution about Tate's 18.44 call routed through the Hockley or Ingatestone cells/masts which I believe would be the case if he received the call where he was found?   In fact given the prosecution wanted to argue Whomes 18.59 calls placed him in Workhouse Lane this strikes me as a little odd!  I believe all this was in its infancy at the 1997/8 trial but if it could be shown to jurors Tate's 18.44 call came in on the same cell/mast that Whomes call went out on at 18.59 this would I'm sure go down a treat with jurors so why wasn't it used!?  Instead we have a lot of talk about Steele overhearing the conversation between Tate and Sarah Saunders whilst he was sat in the Range Rover.   Was there an assumption by all concerned Tate received the call where he was found or was evidence withheld because it dented the prosecution case?

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #307 on: February 06, 2019, 12:25:11 PM »
Tucker's mobile messages.  The first call from Anna at 4.45 in sounds to me like the call was answered but no one responded!?  She then calls back immediately and leaves a message.  If the call was answered which cell/mast was this call routed through?  Where does this feature on the tel schedules compiled by Essex police/info from tel comm providers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #308 on: February 06, 2019, 01:31:40 PM »
This may go some way to explain why their trial was deferred or at least explain the process.

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2000/70.html

I have read quickly but will need to read again.  My understanding is that Steele was involved in a total of 5 importations: Aug, Oct, Nov '95 and Apr, May 96.  He was charged with the first 3 which were heard at his trial ending Jan '98 and he was found guilty along with the murders.  This was also the case for his co-accused with regard to Whomes found guilty of the importation and murder charges and Corry and Nicholls found guilty of the importation charges. 

Come Apr and May '96 new faces were involved in the importations: Russell Tate, Sarah Darlaston, Tracey Roulstone, Ian Kerr, Paul Gwinnettno and Craig Androliakos.  They were charged and found guilty in a separate trial which ended Nov '98. 

What I'm not understanding is why not have a trial for all 5 importations?  If I had to guess I would say the reason for this is that it would be difficult to explain to jurors Steele's ongoing relationship with Russell Tate?  And/or was it something to do with the fact Nicholls corrupt relationship we are told started 1st Jan '98 with Bird.  Regardless imo jurors were hoodwinked in that they only had half the picture

It seems the due processes were not followed for the confiscation order therefore Steele's appeal was allowed.  Where does the figure 2,122 pounds come from?  Steele was importing large quantities of cannabis.  He must have made more than 2,122?   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #309 on: February 06, 2019, 01:51:05 PM »
The following is interesting.  It's written by an academic who attempts to understand the machinations of 'Tuckers Gang' by analyzing the various accounts written by Ellis, Leach, Mahoney and  journalist Tony Tucker and media reports:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257771184_Tuckers_firm_A_case_study_of_British_organised_crime

The above outlines Tucker's businesses some of which were legitimate one being debt collection. 

Francis Theobald, co-owner of White House Farm, said she and her husband sub-let outbuildings.  One sub-let was to a Mr Jackson who run Billericay Bailiff Services.  So is it possible Mr Jackson called up the heavies?  I wonder whether investigators ever checked with Mr Jackson whether or not he knew any of the murdered trio and/or whether they ever visited his premises?

Another more tenuous link is that Francis Theobald said she run a farm shop selling hay amongst other things.  John Marshall was found dead in the back of his Range Rover covered in hay.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #310 on: February 06, 2019, 01:55:49 PM »
I have read quickly but will need to read again.  My understanding is that Steele was involved in a total of 5 importations: Aug, Oct, Nov '95 and Apr, May 96.  He was charged with the first 3 which were heard at his trial ending Jan '98 and he was found guilty along with the murders.  This was also the case for his co-accused with regard to Whomes found guilty of the importation and murder charges and Corry and Nicholls found guilty of the importation charges. 

Come Apr and May '96 new faces were involved in the importations: Russell Tate, Sarah Darlaston, Tracey Roulstone, Ian Kerr, Paul Gwinnettno and Craig Androliakos.  They were charged and found guilty in a separate trial which ended Nov '98. 

What I'm not understanding is why not have a trial for all 5 importations?  If I had to guess I would say the reason for this is that it would be difficult to explain to jurors Steele's ongoing relationship with Russell Tate?  And/or was it something to do with the fact Nicholls corrupt relationship we are told started 1st Jan '98 with Bird.  Regardless imo jurors were hoodwinked in that they only had half the picture

It seems the due processes were not followed for the confiscation order therefore Steele's appeal was allowed.  Where does the figure 2,122 pounds come from?  Steele was importing large quantities of cannabis.  He must have made more than 2,122?

Oh and just remembered Nicholls said he tried to distant himself from Steele/Whomes post murders when in reality his relationship with the pair had not changed.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #311 on: February 06, 2019, 04:16:20 PM »
Back to Tucker's 26 voice mail messages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs

The messages are in reverse order ie the first at the end of the recording and the most recent at the beginning.

9 messages from girlfriend Ms Anna Whitehead

@ approx 4.46 - it appears the phone is answered but no response

@ approx 4.25 - asks him to call her and gives a Basildon tel no

@ approx 4.20 - asks how he's getting on and tells him she's ready - they are due for a meal in Romford which is some 30 mins from Basildon

@ approx 4.00 - asks him to call her

(@ approx 3.40 someone calls asking Tucker to delay collection of his equipment.  He gives the time as 9 o'clock.  It is obvious this is 9pm based on other calls).

@ approx 3.15 she states she's back from stables and its quarter past eleven.  It is obvious based on other calls it is 11.15pm.

@ approx 3.00 she states she's round her mums and its now quarter to one 12.45am.

@ approx 2.35 she states she has heard news about 3 men found in a Range Rover. 

@ approx 2.24 she asks him to call her

@ approx 2.00 she asks him to call her

These calls do not tally with the phone schedules:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511362#msg511362

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511364#msg511364
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #312 on: February 06, 2019, 04:29:54 PM »
I'm not sure its really worth spending further time on this?  It seems obvious to me the case is based on corruption and organised crime at the highest levels along with an inexperienced defence (Chris Bowens) and a half-witted QC (David Leaderman) based on his current Linkedin a/c and cv on the website of Carmelite Chambers


Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #313 on: February 06, 2019, 04:52:15 PM »
I'm not sure its really worth spending further time on this?  It seems obvious to me the case is based on corruption and organised crime at the highest levels along with an inexperienced defence (Chris Bowens) and a half-witted QC (David Leaderman) based on his current Linkedin a/c and cv on the website of Carmelite Chambers
@)(++(*   you must be knackered.

No, dislexyc.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #314 on: February 06, 2019, 04:55:39 PM »
Back to Tucker's 26 voice mail messages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGpxqhR1PYs

The messages are in reverse order ie the first at the end of the recording and the most recent at the beginning.

9 messages from girlfriend Ms Anna Whitehead

@ approx 4.46 - it appears the phone is answered but no response

@ approx 4.25 - asks him to call her and gives a Basildon tel no

@ approx 4.20 - asks how he's getting on and tells him she's ready - they are due for a meal in Romford which is some 30 mins from Basildon

@ approx 4.00 - asks him to call her

(@ approx 3.40 someone calls asking Tucker to delay collection of his equipment.  He gives the time as 9 o'clock.  It is obvious this is 9pm based on other calls).

@ approx 3.15 she states she's back from stables and its quarter past eleven.  It is obvious based on other calls it is 11.15pm.

@ approx 3.00 she states she's round her mums and its now quarter to one 12.45am.

@ approx 2.35 she states she has heard news about 3 men found in a Range Rover. 

@ approx 2.24 she asks him to call her

@ approx 2.00 she asks him to call her

These calls do not tally with the phone schedules:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511362#msg511362

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg511364#msg511364

Is the one in blue a phone call from Tucker to Anna Whitehead, rather than the other way round?
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.