Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[Robittybob1]

I am not sure how clear these images will be, but the shirt she is wearing definitely looks purplish, especially in larger format.  It also looks remarkably like the same purple shirt she is photographed in at a later stage.  Additionally, JW made it very clear, at the time, that although he did not know her name he did recognise her as part of the holiday group - so again, I do not think Mrs Murat's sighting and JW's sighting were of the same person.  The timings don't fit and neither do the overall descriptions of clothing or build.  I only know of one other person recorded in the files as wearing a purple jacket and it wasn't Jane Tanner.

Those that can view the video - do you agree that the person identified on the second photo is "David Payne"?   
IMO that person looks more female than male?

[misty]

Reference the Fenn statement - what if Jenny Murat muddled the date she saw the lady in purple/plum?  She made no mention of it in her PJ statement, even though she included the timing of her trip to Batista to buy bread on 3rd May.  Then considering the number of years it took to finally talk to the press and her advancing age, I wonder if it is possible that she may have seen the suspicious woman on Tuesday, 1st May.  In which case, the Jorge Alberto Bandara Rocha statement and Mrs Fenn’s statement about crying may connect up.  Anyhow, even if this theory is wholly incorrect the Jorge Arturo statement is worth looking at i.e. mention  of overenthusiastic photographing, taking the time to book in low season yet gobbling down dinner, the women’s clothing description and the question of the name of a fish in German, conveniently answered by a nearby German couple.  (Of course there is also Jeremy Wilkins lady in purple on 3rd May, but as far as I can see, only mention was made of lady in purple whom he believed to be Jane Tanner once he got back to the UK.  As a result, perhaps he did see Jane heading for dinner,  but because she wore so much purple in the media his brain/memory associated her with the colour).

The people dining in the Refugio restaurant were identified as Wojciech Kamil Krokowski and Anetta Malgorzata Krokowski Jarosinska, who were staying at Sol e Mar apartments in Burgau. The restaurant booking is confirmed here in PJ files   https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P4/04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_845.jpg.

The original report of the woman in purple said she was wearing a white skirt & had long dark hair.   http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2705.msg183106#msg183106
That doesn't tally with the description given by Jorge Rocha, who said she was blonde & wearing a beige dress(?) & trousers.

[kmc]

The people dining in the Refugio restaurant were identified as Wojciech Kamil Krokowski and Anetta Malgorzata Krokowski Jarosinska, who were staying at Sol e Mar apartments in Burgau. The restaurant booking is confirmed here in PJ files   https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P4/04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_845.jpg.

The original report of the woman in purple said she was wearing a white skirt & had long dark hair.   http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2705.msg183106#msg183106
That doesn't tally with the description given by Jorge Rocha, who said she was blonde & wearing a beige dress(?) & trousers.

That is true, but if you look at the CCTV image of her - she has a glimpse of tiny leggings under a dress, most people would not even notice them, so perhaps the description of a dress over trousers is more like what she is wearing in the image. Also, I assume that a beige dress under a purple jacket could be observed by someone driving past as a white skirt, especially at that time of the day and in the shadows/or under a street light.  The hair, I agree is an issue but I am not sure how major it is - hair can be dyed/ people can wear wigs and also Jenny Murat's statement changes from 2009 to years later only remembering mainly that she wore a purple jacket.  Also, I don't know why but I have some niggling recollection that in the days just after MM's abduction, the press who did live interviews on TV talked about rumours of a blonde woman being seen near the apartment...but because there is no way of searching it like an article as those kinds of clips are impossible to find.  Anyhow,  the couple may well be wholly innocent, I just think it is odd that both the descriptions of the people seen so near the apartment - have a lot of similarities to them and more odd that they are only in the files because some guy thought they were trying to abduct his kid days before.  Maybe all a co-incidence but  for all the people who think the parents should have been properly interviewed and ruled out, I would think the same should have been done for them - even if it is a coincidence. 

[misty]

That is true, but if you look at the CCTV image of her - she has a glimpse of tiny leggings under a dress, most people would not even notice them, so perhaps the description of a dress over trousers is more like what she is wearing in the image. Also, I assume that a beige dress under a purple jacket could be observed by someone driving past as a white skirt, especially at that time of the day and in the shadows/or under a street light.  The hair, I agree is an issue but I am not sure how major it is - hair can be dyed/ people can wear wigs and also Jenny Murat's statement changes from 2009 to years later only remembering mainly that she wore a purple jacket.  Also, I don't know why but I have some niggling recollection that in the days just after MM's abduction, the press who did live interviews on TV talked about rumours of a blonde woman being seen near the apartment...but because there is no way of searching it like an article as those kinds of clips are impossible to find.  Anyhow,  the couple may well be wholly innocent, I just think it is odd that both the descriptions of the people seen so near the apartment - have a lot of similarities to them and more odd that they are only in the files because some guy thought they were trying to abduct his kid days before.  Maybe all a co-incidence but  for all the people who think the parents should have been properly interviewed and ruled out, I would think the same should have been done for them - even if it is a coincidence.

The Polish couple were investigated by both PJ & Polish police, although not to the extent of obtaining the camera WK used to take photographs in Luz. IMO the time-frame for this couple  on Tuesday evening, starting with dinner at 7.15pm in Burgau, does not really gel with the female diner being seen outside 5A at around 8pm.
I am of the opinion that Jenny Murat's alleged sighting of a woman in purple would have been mentioned in May 2007 when she gave her witness statement, after her son had just become the focus of PJ attention. A woman dressed in a purple top on 3rd & 4th May 2007 & having dark hair was, of course, instrumental in that line of investigation. JM can be seen here on this video at 38secs (red top & grey trousers) walking along the pavement past Block 5 on morning of 4th May as Jane (hair tied back) is waiting to get into the PJ vehicle. https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/exterior-shots-of-gerry-and-kate-mccann-departing-the-news-footage/487715646?adppopup=true

[Miss Taken Identity]

In this video Gerry McCann can be seen sliding the patio door of 5A. After listening to the level of sound it made, do posters believe Mrs Fenn could possibly have heard it though the noise of the alleged crying? IMO the noise from the door is minimal.


https://youtu.be/atfDV7imHHY?t=769

Nice try Misty. The background sound of the patio doors is turned down to allow the narrator  in the film to inform us about Gerry going in to the apartment- hence no sound of the doors. The patio door in G4a are the same as 5a.

So now I have to ask why would Mrs F make up a story like that I wonder, what did she have to gain, and what did the McCanns have to lose, apart from their reputation for leaving their children alone and crying for over an hour?

[misty]

Nice try Misty. The background sound of the patio doors is turned down to allow the narrator  in the film to inform us about Gerry going in to the apartment- hence no sound of the doors. The patio door in G4a are the same as 5a.

So now I have to ask why would Mrs F make up a story like that I wonder, what did she have to gain, and what did the McCanns have to lose, apart from their reputation for leaving their children alone and crying for over an hour?

You can hear the patio doors of G4A here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxUdEnQ_r9M&feature=youtu.be&t=399
To my untrained ear they sound pretty much the same as 5A. 
I'd rather ask why the PJ paid scant attention to Mrs Fenn's report of a home intruder in the days before Madeleine went missing immediately an abduction had been reported in the apartment below hers, preferring to concentrate weeks later on the crying of an unknown child in the same block.

[Mr Gray]

Nice try Misty. The background sound of the patio doors is turned down to allow the narrator  in the film to inform us about Gerry going in to the apartment- hence no sound of the doors. The patio door in G4a are the same as 5a.

So now I have to ask why would Mrs F make up a story like that I wonder, what did she have to gain, and what did the McCanns have to lose, apart from their reputation for leaving their children alone and crying for over an hour?

There's no reason for Mrs Fenn to make anything up but the question is,... How accurate, is her memory

[puglove]

There's no reason for Mrs Fenn to make anything up but the question is,... How accurate, is her memory

Well, what do you think? You seem to have all the answers. Or one of your many brood of children do. Mrs. Fenn heard a child crying, for longer than a small child should cry if a parent was in the apartment, then a door was opened, and the child stopped crying. It really isn't rocket science.

[puglove]

I know this doesn't help, and it's old, old, old.....but no one in their right mind would put empty pleasures before the safety of their children. But the Mcanns, from "f..k off" on the journey to "it was too dark to search" when it all went wrong didn't seem to care about anything except their images of themselves. I hope to god that I'm never in that desperate place, but I doubt that I would worry about my highlights and earrings. And the hand-holding thing.....

[Venturi Swirl]

I know this doesn't help, and it's old, old, old.....but no one in their right mind would put empty pleasures before the safety of their children. But the Mcanns, from "f..k off" on the journey to "it was too dark to search" when it all went wrong didn't seem to care about anything except their images of themselves. I hope to god that I'm never in that desperate place, but I doubt that I would worry about my highlights and earrings. And the hand-holding thing.....

Do you have a cite for “worrying about highlights and earrings” and what is it exactly that you object to regarding the hand-holding thing...?  Anyone else got any tired old tropes they want to bring to the party this Sunday morning? 

[Eleanor]

Do you have a cite for “worrying about highlights and earrings” and what is it exactly that you object to regarding the hand-holding thing...?  Anyone else got any tired old tropes they want to bring to the party this Sunday morning?

Is it seriously worth talking about?  But do carry on y'all.  Any old rubbish will do at the moment.

[Venturi Swirl]

Is it seriously worth talking about?  But do carry on y'all.  Any old rubbish will do at the moment.

It’s literally been years since I saw anyone complaining about Kate’s earrings, perhaps Holly could start a thread about them, examining their significance in the case. 

[Eleanor]

It’s literally been years since I saw anyone complaining about Kate’s earrings, perhaps Holly could start a thread about them, examining their significance in the case.

What a good idea.  That could keep us going for a couple of pages.  Okay, just one page.  It's pissing down here, so anything will do.

Sorry, I dare not start such a Thread myself.   I might die laughing.

[ShiningInLuz]

Do you have a cite for “worrying about highlights and earrings” and what is it exactly that you object to regarding the hand-holding thing...?  Anyone else got any tired old tropes they want to bring to the party this Sunday morning?

You've got a Cipriano thread when there's a perfectly good Cipriano forum.

I gues you just can't win.

[puglove]

Do you have a cite for “worrying about highlights and earrings” and what is it exactly that you object to regarding the hand-holding thing...?  Anyone else got any tired old tropes they want to bring to the party this Sunday morning?

Yes, you're right, it was a cheap shot, a bit shabby. We all cope in our own ways. I just find them a very odd couple, and I now understand how otherwise intelligent and sensible people think that they might be guilty in some way. Kate should never have written that book.