Author Topic: "Please come over..."  (Read 9507 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2014, 08:47:14 PM »
So why would NB call for his son's help to disarm her, when that very morning Jeremy Bamber told police they "didn't like each other and never got on"?  He'd be more likely to exacerbate the situation and end up dead himself, rather than calm it down.  JB was on a Sheila's scary and dangerous wind-up with Messrs Bews and Myall, so it's no wonder they scarpered for cover to call for TFU support.

I'll pray for you tonight to see the light, Holy Godhead... otherwise this missionary position of yours is gonna become permanent.

As far as I can see it is doubtful NB said "Please come over".  On the assumption NB made the call and said "Sheilas gone crazy shes got a gun" what did he mean by this?  It doesn't necessarily follow it was a green light for JB to go over? 

If posters think NB was capable of disarming SC in possession of a loaded firearm why do they also appear to believe the likes of Messrs Bews and Myall would be scared and request FSU?  Why when the FSU arrived did they wait until daylight to storm WHF? 

So long as I've still got a free hand to continue mass debating 8(0(*
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2014, 08:53:21 PM »
I notice you are on a mission Holly, what is it?

ps  police will always wait for daylight.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 08:55:53 PM by Matthew Wyse »
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2014, 08:57:05 PM »
Come on Holly, you strike me as an intelligent lass so why do you persist with your Bamber might be innocent theme?  Dont you think it would have been established by now had there been the slightest doubt in his conviction?

Because I do genuinely believe JB to be the victim of a MoJ and think he's innocent Matthew.  I would never argue as in ARGUE about it as I respect the views of others and I'm in a minority over this not just on this forum but generally too.  Plus of course I might have called it wrong, very wrong but I don't think so!

I think the WHF case has a number of complex 'perfect storms' but I remain convinced that JB's conviction will eventually be quashed on the basis that it is unsafe.  It will make no difference what anyone says or does on these forums.  It will be down to JB's lawyers, CCRC and CoA.  No idea who JB's new lawyers are? 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Matthew Wyse

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2014, 08:58:13 PM »
Because I do genuinely believe JB to be the victim of a MoJ and think he's innocent Matthew.  I would never argue as in ARGUE about it as I respect the views of others and I'm in a minority over this not just on this forum but generally too.  Plus of course I might have called it wrong, very wrong but I don't think so!

I think the WHF case has a number of complex 'perfect storms' but I remain convinced that JB's conviction will eventually be quashed on the basis that it is unsafe.  It will make no difference what anyone says or does on these forums.  It will be down to JB's lawyers, CCRC and CoA.  No idea who JB's new lawyers are?

Have you any smoking gun evidence to back up your hunch?   My own view is that there is nothing unsafe at all about his conviction, the guilty evidence from what I have read is very damming.
Most people suspect the truth but few are able to admit it.

Offline puglove

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2014, 09:29:47 PM »
But if SC was threatening to shoot herself with the gun holding it under her chin or holding it at NB at point blank range with her finger on the trigger I am not so sure he would feel confident in his ability to disarm her  &%+((£ NB was military trained and being a WW2 RAF pilot  was likely to be brave in the face of adversity but it may be that he was not just concerned for his own safety but SC's too and also if he should be injured that SC was still left with a loaded firearm and June and the twins.

Why did EP call out FSU?  Why not just send in an unarmed officer to disarm SC if it was that easy?

See ya later for some Munch Mega Flaming Hot  8(0(* X

I doubt if Ralph would have felt confident that he could disarm Sheila, but I think he would have felt utter desperation that he HAD to, as long as he was physically capable. I think he would have tried anything - kicking her legs from under her, throwing something at her - she wouldn't have had the element of suprise that I'm assuming Bamber did when he burst into the bedroom, thinking that he could kill Ralph and June in bed but overestimating the power of the rifle.

It's back to the old question - what do you think Sheila was doing while Ralph phoned Bamber?    &%+((£


(If you don't like that question, you can have this one. Who do you think has got the best bangers, me or Andy? It's actually Andy. It really is.    8)><( )
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2014, 09:32:26 PM »

Why do you guys still argue over Bamber?       Hasnt he had every opportunity to prove his innocence and has summarily failed to do so.   Yawn

I have no idea why we still do this, Matthew. I've got some seriously bad habits, but this is by far my worst one.     8(8-))
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2014, 01:28:08 AM »
I doubt if Ralph would have felt confident that he could disarm Sheila, but I think he would have felt utter desperation that he HAD to, as long as he was physically capable. I think he would have tried anything - kicking her legs from under her, throwing something at her - she wouldn't have had the element of suprise that I'm assuming Bamber did when he burst into the bedroom, thinking that he could kill Ralph and June in bed but overestimating the power of the rifle.

It's back to the old question - what do you think Sheila was doing while Ralph phoned Bamber?    &%+((£


(If you don't like that question, you can have this one. Who do you think has got the best bangers, me or Andy? It's actually Andy. It really is.    8)><( )

I don't know what SC was doing if/when NB phoned JB.  Here's what FE said in a similar situation:

“During the call the phone went dead. Sheila suddenly became hysterical, mumbling about the phone being bugged. She became like someone possessed ranting and raving. She was striking herself and beating the wall with her fists. I tried to calm her but she did not seem to hear me. I became extremely frightened not only for her but for myself. She kept talking about the Devil and God, and stated that God was sitting opposite her and unlike what her step mother said he in fact loved her. I contacted her ex-mother in law and asked her to come round. This aggravated the situation and Sheila became even more violent and abusive. Her mother in law called and found a prescription for Sheila’s drugs and asked me to get them for her. I went to the chemist and when I retuned I was met at the front door by the mother in law who was leaving. She told me Sheila had kicked her out. I went in and tried to pacify Sheila but was unable to do so. I became extremely concerned for my own safety. I telephoned Sheila’s Doctor and a short while later one of her partners arrived. Sheila refused to let him examine her shouting that he was trying to poison her. By this time she had become completely irrational. The doctor eventually left without being able to do anything. Being unable to do anything I contacted another doctor who arrived shortly afterwards. Again he was unable to do anything because Sheila would not allow him near her".

If NB made the call was SC aware?  See FE's experience above.  Bearing in mind it was only dialling 4 digits (WHF to Goldhanger) and potentially "Sheilas gone crazy shes got the gun".  If it was the first time NB had witnessed SC in such a state if was probably very upsetting for him to witness first hand how unwell she was.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline adam

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2014, 03:16:48 PM »
I doubt if Ralph would have felt confident that he could disarm Sheila, but I think he would have felt utter desperation that he HAD to, as long as he was physically capable. I think he would have tried anything - kicking her legs from under her, throwing something at her - she wouldn't have had the element of suprise that I'm assuming Bamber did when he burst into the bedroom, thinking that he could kill Ralph and June in bed but overestimating the power of the rifle.

It's back to the old question - what do you think Sheila was doing while Ralph phoned Bamber?    &%+((£


(If you don't like that question, you can have this one. Who do you think has got the best bangers, me or Andy? It's actually Andy. It really is.    8)><( )

Well Neville was 6.4. According to Barbara Wilson, he could disarm Sheila with one arm. Ann Eaton also said he would disarm her, perhaps by picking up a chair.

Sheila must have been fairly placid when Neville had the option of either trying to disarm her, or spend several minutes phoning Jeremy. I know what I would rather do.

Offline adam

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2014, 03:26:41 PM »
Adam I'm not sure that JB used all these derogatory terms in connection with SC's mental illness which were commonly used at that time.  Are you able to provide a source for "do lally"? 

What do people say in distress calls?  May day calls etc?  JB claims there was a pause of a few seconds before NB spoke.

When you say "not sure what other hints he would need" I'm not sure what you mean?

The source for 'do lally'  is in one of the police officers WS.

Another officer also testified that Jeremy said Sheila had committed child abuse on the twins. Jeremy said he had not reported this.

After the massacre he told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going to be sent to the 'nut house' and that he was the only one who knew this.

Hints, I assumed this thread was to justify Jeremy's long delay after Neville's call. By saying Neville did not say 'please come over'. If Neville rings at 3.10am mentioning guns & a crazy Sheila, I thought Jeremy would be able to put 2 and 2 together.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2014, 05:27:19 PM »
I notice you are on a mission Holly, what is it?

ps  police will always wait for daylight.

Lol...I'm on a mission with the SS as in Secret Seven the child detectives from the Enid Blyton series  ?>)()<  They were my fave childhood books  8)-)))  I'm sort of living the dream and trying to resolve a real life true crime  8)-)))
That's what my avatar and "On a mission" is all about  8)-)))
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2014, 05:41:35 PM »
Well Neville was 6.4. According to Barbara Wilson, he could disarm Sheila with one arm. Ann Eaton also said he would disarm her, perhaps by picking up a chair.

Sheila must have been fairly placid when Neville had the option of either trying to disarm her, or spend several minutes phoning Jeremy. I know what I would rather do.

Yes NB was a powerfully built man and military trained so a force to be reckoned with.  However it is clear to me that the injuries he sustained in the bedroom rendered him defenceless against anyone.  By the time he reached the kitchen he was sadly almost dead.  Anyone in possession of a loaded firearm prepared to pull the trigger is at a distinct advantage over someone unarmed regardless of gender, build, previous experience etc, etc. 

It is a myth that females are incapable of serious violence and aggression whether they be mentally unwell or not.  I posted this a few days ago:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5594.msg201035#msg201035



Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2014, 05:47:02 PM »
Have you any smoking gun evidence to back up your hunch?   My own view is that there is nothing unsafe at all about his conviction, the guilty evidence from what I have read is very damming.

No, no smoking gun but I see my reasons for believing JB is the victim of a MoJ as being based on more than a "hunch".  I do however understand entirely how those who believe JB is guilty as charged arrived at that decision and can continue to believe this. 

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2014, 05:55:40 PM »
I doubt if Ralph would have felt confident that he could disarm Sheila, but I think he would have felt utter desperation that he HAD to, as long as he was physically capable. I think he would have tried anything - kicking her legs from under her, throwing something at her - she wouldn't have had the element of suprise that I'm assuming Bamber did when he burst into the bedroom, thinking that he could kill Ralph and June in bed but overestimating the power of the rifle.

It's back to the old question - what do you think Sheila was doing while Ralph phoned Bamber?    &%+((£


(If you don't like that question, you can have this one. Who do you think has got the best bangers, me or Andy? It's actually Andy. It really is.    8)><( )

I wouldn't mind betting it's Jackie's Jugs out of the four of us  @)(++(* @)(++(*
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2014, 06:27:03 PM »
The source for 'do lally'  is in one of the police officers WS.

Another officer also testified that Jeremy said Sheila had committed child abuse on the twins. Jeremy said he had not reported this.

After the massacre he told Liz Rimmington that Sheila was going to be sent to the 'nut house' and that he was the only one who knew this.

Hints, I assumed this thread was to justify Jeremy's long delay after Neville's call. By saying Neville did not say 'please come over'. If Neville rings at 3.10am mentioning guns & a crazy Sheila, I thought Jeremy would be able to put 2 and 2 together.

Ok thanks for letting me know Adam but is it really necessary to keep repeating derogatory terms used to describe those with mental illness from a bygone era?  Lots of terms were used then to describe people that we wouldn't dream of using now and in some cases are illegal.  It was no fault of SC's that she suffered from mental illness. 

I think I read somewhere, maybe JB's police interviews, that JB said his parents were concerned that SC was abusing the twins.  I think perhaps what was meant by this was that SC was unable to care for the twins properly due to her mental illness.  This is well documented Adam.  CC is on record having discussions with the twins' teacher over concerns that they were having to get themselves up and ready for school (they were only just 6 yoa at the time of the tragedy).  As CC said in his book had there been any out and out abuse as in violence etc then CC felt certain that he would have heard from the twins direct and he didn't. 

Can you provide the source re the "nut house" please.  First I've heard of this.  I believe a holiday was being planned for SC in Eastbourne.

This thread is attempting to determine whether or not NB/JB ever said "Please come over".  Imo PC West introduced this term and I don't believe it was ever used by NB or JB.

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: "Please come over..."
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2014, 06:47:56 PM »
PC West's WS is unavailable here but it is on Blue.  However I can see from his trial testimony that he made a WS on 9th August and in it he stated:

"Please come over your sister has gone crazy and has the gun".

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=170.0;attach=327

It might be worth remembering it was agreed by all concerned that PC West recorded the time incorrectly and used different words/phrases in his trial testimony.  Did he simply jump to a conclusion and throw in "Please come over" when it was never said?

PC Wests WS contradicts with:

JB's WS dated 7th August 1985 : "Sheilas gone crazy she has got a gun"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5631.0;attach=4566

MB's Log dated 7th August 1985 : "Daughter gone beserk" "Daugher Sheila Bamber aged 26 years has got hold of one of my guns"

(Sheila was in fact Sheila Caffell aged 28 years at the time of the tragedy)

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=177.0;attach=423

SM's WS dated 15th August 1985 : "Your sister has gone beserk and she has got a gun"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5638.0;attach=4589

AE's WS dated 8th September 1985 : "Sheila has got the gun she has gone crazy"

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1053.0;attach=2189



« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 06:50:24 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?