Author Topic: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?  (Read 109534 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #420 on: April 15, 2020, 09:54:20 AM »
I’m sorry but are you saying that the number of immigrants rising year on year is not down to the points system failing but to tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of skilled workers beating a path to Australia’s door ? That hundreds of thousands of unskilled workers have been replaced, no outstripped, by skilled workers, skilled workers that have never seemed that interested in immigrating before ? A rather singular phenomenon I’m sure you’d agree.
Australia wanted immigration and   the points system worked in filtering the immigrants. If they wish to stop immigration they can...its their choice. The Uk didnt have a choice ..it was an open door. With Brexit they will have that choice

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #421 on: April 15, 2020, 11:50:22 AM »
Australia wanted immigration and   the points system worked in filtering the immigrants. If they wish to stop immigration they can...its their choice. The Uk didnt have a choice ..it was an open door. With Brexit they will have that choice

But after filtering, by the system we are going to adopt, the number is still going up in Australia. Are you truly trying to tell me that those added numbers are all skilled workers ? Really ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #422 on: April 15, 2020, 11:52:12 AM »
It’s a topsy, turvy world when Piers Morgan is the nation’s moral compass.

https://youtu.be/DZTq2DHKMHo
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #423 on: April 15, 2020, 03:25:03 PM »
But after filtering, by the system we are going to adopt, the number is still going up in Australia. Are you truly trying to tell me that those added numbers are all skilled workers ? Really ?
What im telling you is that Australia has  a degree of control wheras UK has had free movemnet and no control. The australian system might not be perfect but its heaps better taht free movement. what i know from my sons experience is that the visa system is certainly very strict for doctors. He had to get multiple references and copies of assessmnets from several years ago. the Uk have allowed in doctors that havent even been qualified.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #424 on: April 15, 2020, 03:55:35 PM »
What im telling you is that Australia has  a degree of control wheras UK has had free movemnet and no control. The australian system might not be perfect but its heaps better taht free movement. what i know from my sons experience is that the visa system is certainly very strict for doctors. He had to get multiple references and copies of assessmnets from several years ago. the Uk have allowed in doctors that havent even been qualified.

But the point is immigration in Australia is still going up despite the points system.

Further the screening process in Australia doesn’t seem to be that strict

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/10/british-doctor-shocked-fraudster-worked-australian-hospitals/
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #425 on: April 15, 2020, 04:35:58 PM »
But the point is immigration in Australia is still going up despite the points system.

Further the screening process in Australia doesn’t seem to be that strict

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/10/british-doctor-shocked-fraudster-worked-australian-hospitals/

The point is it's their country and their laws... They can stop immigration completely if they wish... The UK couldn't as part if the EU.  I suppose it doesn't matter how strict the screening process is if someone is determined to beat it.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #426 on: April 15, 2020, 05:40:31 PM »
The point is it's their country and their laws... They can stop immigration completely if they wish... The UK couldn't as part if the EU.  I suppose it doesn't matter how strict the screening process is if someone is determined to beat it.

No, the point is that an Australian points system, which we are about to adopt, does not work and the rise in immigration in Australia has shown that.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 06:06:12 PM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #427 on: April 15, 2020, 06:12:22 PM »
No, the point is that an Australian points system, which we are about to adopt, does not work and the rise in immigration in Australia has shown that.

i think your post is absolute codswallop based on your devotion to Corbyn;s Labour that was soundly rejected by the UK electorate. You really are letting it cloud your judgemnt. As I've said and you cannot counter....Australia has the ability to adjust its system...the Uk didnt as aprt of the EU. Thank god they can now.

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #428 on: April 15, 2020, 06:58:57 PM »
i think your post is absolute codswallop based on your devotion to Corbyn;s Labour that was soundly rejected by the UK electorate. You really are letting it cloud your judgemnt. As I've said and you cannot counter....Australia has the ability to adjust its system...the Uk didnt as aprt of the EU. Thank god they can now.
What the Labour Party doesn’t seem to have understood is that FOM is a massive vote loser so they’re going to have to come up with a workable solution to the issue of immigration that the people of this country will accept as workable and fair.  If it’s not a points based system what is it?
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #429 on: April 15, 2020, 07:46:56 PM »
What the Labour Party doesn’t seem to have understood is that FOM is a massive vote loser so they’re going to have to come up with a workable solution to the issue of immigration that the people of this country will accept as workable and fair.  If it’s not a points based system what is it?

A points based system will limit immigration... It just depends how will it's employed... FOM was, a massive vote loser and it's not good fir the UK. Brexit gives us more control over immigration .

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #430 on: April 15, 2020, 08:02:18 PM »
What im telling you is that Australia has  a degree of control wheras UK has had free movemnet and no control. The australian system might not be perfect but its heaps better taht free movement. what i know from my sons experience is that the visa system is certainly very strict for doctors. He had to get multiple references and copies of assessmnets from several years ago. the Uk have allowed in doctors that havent even been qualified.


 And there you have it in a nut shell!

 The amount of 'doctors' from Pakistan who were brought over in the 80's to help with  minorities being made to feel comfortable in their culture bubble was a huge flop! The language issues and religious demands and cultural accommodation was hated by many- of who were immigrants themselves!
 The race card was lifted at every turn. when young girls born here were having FGM performed on them by 'GP's who 'understood' their culture.  It took 4 years to get one doctor out of the country! He brought with him his wife, her mother who took ill and couldn't be deported, his sister  who got married to a severely mentally and physically handicapped  man and got to stay here... just one story there are many!

So has anyone done the maths? why we need these foreign doctors?  My sister and her husband left the NHS and moved over to Australia. I know another 15 great people who have left the UK NHS for the same reasons.

 Nicola sturgeon closed the budget for training home grown doctors- she also slashed the IT budget for training our young. We NEED to import. outsourcing is  what it is all about.

Let's do the maths.

30 people in a village need a clinic with 2 staff. the village increases to 60, then 600.

 As the country was invaded by FOM and 'asylum seekers' and illegal immigrants- so the need to increase the infrastructure and staffing levels to accommodate the increase.

so less people =less burden on the NHS= less staff.
 
We don't need charlatans from around the world coming in and making things worse so we can be polite and pretend we don't notice things incase we 'offend'.

'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #431 on: April 16, 2020, 12:07:20 AM »

 And there you have it in a nut shell!

 The amount of 'doctors' from Pakistan who were brought over in the 80's to help with  minorities being made to feel comfortable in their culture bubble was a huge flop! The language issues and religious demands and cultural accommodation was hated by many- of who were immigrants themselves!
 The race card was lifted at every turn. when young girls born here were having FGM performed on them by 'GP's who 'understood' their culture.  It took 4 years to get one doctor out of the country! He brought with him his wife, her mother who took ill and couldn't be deported, his sister  who got married to a severely mentally and physically handicapped  man and got to stay here... just one story there are many!

So has anyone done the maths? why we need these foreign doctors?  My sister and her husband left the NHS and moved over to Australia. I know another 15 great people who have left the UK NHS for the same reasons.

 Nicola sturgeon closed the budget for training home grown doctors- she also slashed the IT budget for training our young. We NEED to import. outsourcing is  what it is all about.

Let's do the maths.

30 people in a village need a clinic with 2 staff. the village increases to 60, then 600.

 As the country was invaded by FOM and 'asylum seekers' and illegal immigrants- so the need to increase the infrastructure and staffing levels to accommodate the increase.

so less people =less burden on the NHS= less staff.
 
We don't need charlatans from around the world coming in and making things worse so we can be polite and pretend we don't notice things incase we 'offend'.

Do you have any official figures underpinning the claims above or is everything you ever write anecdotal?

In a month when we saw many, many immigrant doctors, nurses and care workers lose their lives while caring for people of a different colour and culture....British citizens....I find your views especially abhorrent.

Unfortunately the same people who stay silent while you post your xenophobic rubbish will be clapping those same immigrants tomorrow night.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/06/coronavirus-crisis-nhs-not-drained-migrants-sustained-died-frontline?CMP=share_btn_tw

Amged el-Hawrani thought he just had the flu. He thought maybe he was just a bit run down or hadn’t been sleeping enough. By the time he was admitted to hospital with breathing difficulties and put on a ventilator, it was already too late. Three weeks later, he died of Covid-19. He was 55 years old.

The NHS ear, nose and throat (ENT) consultant never knew he had the virus. He was sedated long before the test came back positive, after twice coming back negative. The diagnosis until the final test result was a stubborn bilateral pneumonia. A physician to the end, his last words before being sedated were “why are they taking so long, they need to intubate me”.

As an ENT surgery consultant he was especially vulnerable to catching Covid-19, and was likely exposed to patients whose complaints were coronavirus-related: loss of taste and smell, breathing issues and persistent coughs. “He wasn’t even aware he needed protective gear,” his brother Amal told me, “he was just doing his job.”


El-Hawrani was one of six boys whose Sudanese parents settled in the UK in 1975. Their late father, a consultant radiologist, moved to the UK to gain access to the latest equipment and research in his speciality, and passed on his passion for medicine to his eldest sons. “He had no hobbies, he was always studying, always reading, he loved it,” Amal recalls.

The love for the vocation extended outside of the family, as the El-Hawrani home became a hub for other Sudanese doctors in training. Those who needed advice and guidance on their professional journey, or just needed a place to stay as they did so, found refuge in the El-Hawrani home, rent free. The commitment to family and medicine was passed down. “Most of my dad’s time was dedicated towards his family,” said El-Hawrani’s son, Ashraf, “the rest was dedicated towards his profession.”


Today, the close-knit family, and the wider medical community of friends around it, cannot even seek some small comfort in mourning together. Alongside the shock of El-Hawrani’s death now lies the dread of the disease infecting his mother, who is in her late 70s. Her sons have isolated themselves from her and each other, and turned away mourners.

El-Hawrani was the second frontline doctor to die of the virus. The first was also of Sudanese origin; Dr Adil El Tayar, an organ transplant specialist who volunteered in an A&E department in the Midlands to help fight the virus. Two of the four children he left behind are also NHS doctors.

Following their deaths, the contributions of El-Hawrani and El Tayar and their families to our healthcare system have been held up as exemplars. Yes, they were gifted and selfless, but they were not exceptions. They were part of a community of NHS doctors all over the UK, who are foreign born, or born to immigrants.

In the 1970s and 80s, El-Hawrani and his siblings grew up in a country matter-of-factly hostile to people of colour. His younger brother Amal recalls being told by other children that he couldn’t play with them because he was brown. Thirty years later, the UK is more diverse, but the antipathy towards immigrants has crept upwards, voiced by politicians instead of schoolchildren. The narrative they set for the country in general, and the NHS in particular, is that they are being drained by immigrants who put nothing in and take everything out. This was always a lie, but it has never been a more discreditable one than now.

Alongside El-Hawrani and El Tayar in the honour roll now sit Dr Alfa Saadu, who was also volunteering, this time in Hertfordshire, one of the counties worst hit by the virus; general practitioner Dr Habib Zaidi; and Areema Nasreen, an acute medical unit nurse. The numbers do, and have always told the truth: 44% of medical staff are BAME. For nurses and midwives, it is one in every five, and in some areas such as London, it is four in 10.

Not that the government has made it easy for non-EU migrant doctors to work in the UK. They have to navigate a complex maze of Home Office requirements to renew expensive work visas which are often tied to jobs which are themselves dependent on budgetary constraints. A single fallen domino in this chain ejects a sorely needed doctor from the country.

In its newfound affection for the NHS and such doctors, the government has now shown hitherto unattainable bureaucratic agility, and decided that all nurses, doctors, paramedics and healthcare professionals will have their visas automatically renewed for a year free of charge.

Many of these migrant doctors will be paying a hefty annual NHS surcharge for the privilege of using an NHS they staff, in addition to paying tax and national insurance contributions. This surcharge is set to rise from £400 to £624 a year this October. The health secretary, Matt Hancock, who in November declared that the NHS surcharge was going to be extended because “it’s the National Health Service not the International Health Service”, on Thursday saluted those NHS staffers who perished as “people who came to this country to make a difference”.

These are likely to be temporary face- and life-saving platitudes and measures. When it’s back to business as usual, when the NHS is used as a political pawn, and blame for its underfunding is placed at the feet of migrants, remember Amged El-Hawrani and all the others who fell on its frontline to save lives. Remember their names, their faces, their stories and the families they left behind. And remember that the NHS is not drained by migrants, but sustained by them.

Nesrine Malik is a Guardian columnist
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 12:57:27 AM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #433 on: April 18, 2020, 03:50:25 PM »
And finally those voices trying to defend the government’s handling of this crisis have fallen silent

https://www.newstatesman.com/2020/04/eleven-days-may-have-tragically-cost-uk-fight-against-coronavirus


Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: Is Boris’s Lax Leadership Putting Us All in Danger ?
« Reply #434 on: April 18, 2020, 04:48:34 PM »
Despite the media’s best efforts to paint the government’s response to the coronavirus crisis as completely incompetent it seems the message hasn’t quite sunk in with the Great British Public yet

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/04/17/support-government-holding-despite-increasing-crit
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly