Leonor Cipriano, her confession and subsequent silence in the killing of her daughter Joana.

[Mr Gray]

She would have left the police station in a body-bag if I had got my hands on the evil bitch.

 And you would have spent the rest of your life in jail hopefully...with no access to the internet

[sadie]

She would have left the police station in a body-bag if I had got my hands on the evil bitch.

So says an evil bitch, talking about putting her in a body bag ... murder

Gawd strewth, the thought that some of you might become jurors horrifies me.

[John]

John, I cannot believe that you honestly think what Amaral did is OK.  But I think for some reason it has to do with protecting Amaral ... and it is not about Justice at all.

Can you give me an honest answer to this question Sadie.

You are a senior police officer and have a young girl missing on your patch.  Her mother initially confesses to having bashed her head against a wall killing her and of asking her brother to hide the body.  The woman is then incarcerated in prison and refuses to say where the girl is hidden.  She gets a new lawyer and next thing you know she is denying the murder and refusing to cooperate.  There is a small chance the girl might still be alive or at the very least you have a chance of recovering her remains and giving her a decent funeral, what do you do?

1. Do you accept what the mother now says and abandon the search.

2. Do you apply pressure to the mother in an attempt to save the child?

This was the predicament which Amaral and his men were faced with.

[John]

FGS John

There is absolutely NO PROOF of any of that rubbish.  Just the words of lying cop.  A criminal to boot.


Thank God you didn't receive similar treatment in your case.

Just the utterings of criminal thug João Cipriano.   He hid her here, he hid her there, he hid her everywhere.

I open the above question to Eleanor and Dave too.  What would you do?

[sadie]

Can you give me an honest answer to this question Sadie.

You are a senior police officer and have a young girl missing on your patch.  Her mother initially confesses to having bashed her head against a wall killing her and of asking her brother to hide the body.  The woman is then incarcerated in prison and refuses to say where the girl is hidden.  She gets a new lawyer and next thing you know she us denying the murder and refusing to cooperate.  There us a small chance the girl might still be alive so what do you do?

1. Do you accept what the mother now says and abandon the search.

2. Do you apply pressure to the mother in an attempt to save the child?

I would make damned sure that she hasn't been tortured or threatened before I accept any confession.  She was extremely badly treated, probably tortured in a minor way before that so called first confession anyway.

1.  I would make damned sure that I had forensic proof of what was being claimed

2.  Torture is NEVER acceptable.  NEVER ... and anything confessed afterwards is NOT valid.  it is NOT evidence if tortured out.



....  off topic removed ...



Now i have to go 

[sadie]

Just the utterings of criminal thug João Cipriano.   He hid her here, he hid her there, he hid her everywhere.

Joao also threatened with violence no doubt.  Maybe even had already been beaten a little.  Either thta or as he was a drug addict we understand,his drugs were withdrawn ... only to have been given again after his "confession"

Think a little deeper John



Now I truly have to go.  My life is chaotic atm.

[John]

So you would let the little lamb rot Sadie?    And all because it had to be done prim and proper?

[John]

Joao also threatened with violence no doubt.  Maybe even had already been beaten a little.  Either thta or as he was a drug addict we understand,his drugs were withdrawn ... only to have been given again after his "confession"

Think a little deeper John



Now I truly have to go.  My life is chaotic atm.

Now you are making it up Sadie.  Leonor was living at home each night up until her arrest and initial confession.  Had there been any coercion we would have certainly heard about it.

Why ever not, he liked dishing it out.   The PJ knew only too well that there was only one language known to João Cipriano,  the language of violence.

[Wonderfulspam]

So says an evil bitch, talking about putting her in a body bag ... murder

Gawd strewth, the thought that some of you might become jurors horrifies me.

'some of you' 

I represent no one but myself with my own often inappropriate opinions.
 
The Ciprianos are evil ba***rds who should be left to rot.

 --- unnecessary comment removed ---

[Eleanor]

No Eleanor, the true disgust is in the murder of a helpless child and the thought that they might have fed her to the pigs.  Will you still support Leonor if she eventually tells the truth of what happened to Joana?

She doesn't know.  Or are you suggesting that she sustained several hours of brutal beating because she didn't want to say?  After supposedly confessing to the child's murder, if what you say is true.

Pigs leave bones, even if only small pieces.  Did they ever find any of those?  I don't think so.

[Wonderfulspam]

She doesn't know.  Or are you suggesting that she sustained several hours of brutal beating because she didn't want to say?  After supposedly confessing to the child's murder, if what you say is true.

Pigs leave bones, even if only small pieces.  Did they ever find any of those?  I don't think so.

Take a treasured family pet or elderly relative, an industrial mincer or wood chipper & pen full of hungry pigs......
'ta da' no bones.

[Eleanor]

Take a treasured family pet or elderly relative, an industrial mincer or wood chipper & pen full of hungry pigs......
'ta da' no bones.

Ah, I see.  Leonor and her brother cleaned up the pig pen and then put the pig shit through a mincer or a wood chipper.  Very sensible.

[John]

Ah, I see.  Leonor and her brother cleaned up the pig pen and then put the pig shit through a mincer or a wood chipper.  Very sensible.

Unbelievably, pigs are very clean animals so their mess is removed regularly.  No doubt had Joana's remains been disposed of in this way then João was wise enough to remove the evidence even before the PJ got involved.  No bones and no manure.

In the final analysis however, only one or two people know what became of Joana Cipriano or if indeed she was murdered.  Her remains, if they still exist, could be anywhere.

[Eleanor]

Unbelievably, pigs are very clean animals so their mess is removed regularly.  No doubt João was wise enough to remove the evidence even before the PJ were involved.

And then what did he do with it?  Or wasn't he telling either?  This would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

Joana is going to turn up alive one day.  Won't that be fun.

[Mr Gray]

Unbelievably, pigs are very clean animals so their mess is removed regularly.  No doubt had Joana's remains been disposed of in this way then João was wise enough to remove the evidence even before the PJ got involved.  No bones and no manure.

In the final analysis however, only one or two people know what became of Joana Cipriano or if indeed she was murdered.  Her remains, if they still exist, could be anywhere.

 Al I can say John is you cant complain if people believe a load of rubbish about you when you believe a load of rubbish about others