Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?

[stephen25000]

I must say I wholeheartedly agree with those sentiments because the Amaral debacle has caused so much trouble far outside the corridors of justice.   It is about time we found out if Amaral is as good as he makes out to be or if he is just another cop with tunnel vision and an incapacity to realise when he is wrong.

This won't solve the case, but it should provide some light in the situation.

However, I dare say whoever loses the case will almost certainly appeal, so this could go on for years.

[amaraltheofficeboy]

Just to answer the OP - I feel safe on here. What reason should I have to not be?

[John]

Till then I know that my statement that Amaral is a disgrace to the police force is accurate fact and therefore not defamation.

For the sake of clarity the phrase "a disgrace to the police force " has been used in respect of Gonçalo Amaral by many Press organisations following his conviction whilst a serving officer in the Portuguese police.  It does not constitute a defamation to use this term.  Should his conviction be overturned however that is a different matter.

[Redblossom]

Utter and absolute rubbish. It is not simply my opinion of the man. Its a statement of fact. It is a disgrace that a serving policeman should firstly get a criminal conviction for covering up something his officers had done in relation to the torture of a parent in a missing child case.

*******

Gilet, there is no proof that Mr Amaral covered up torture by his officers. He was found guilty of signing off a report where his officers said that that convicted child murderer had fallen down the stairs. He was not there at the time so took their word for it. The Portuguese courts have ruled that that woman was beaten but no officer was found guilty of doing so. That woman was under the duty of care of the prison service. IMHO the stairs story was to cover up and release from culpability. Occams Razor suggests she was beaten by inmates. She has recently been found guilty of perjury against the PJ and sentenced to another few months inside.

[C.Edwards]

From the scene in PDL on the evening of 3rd May 2007, this conversation was overheard:

''Mr McKenzie states that:

On e hour into the search by holiday makers of the hotel and surrounding areas, about 23.00 hrs, Mr McKenzie approached the McCann's apartment from the bushes at the rear of the apartment.

He was searching the gardens. He did not know it was the McCann's apartment.

He saw Mr Gerry McCann standing alone in the doorway at the rear of the apartment talking on his mobile telephone.

Mr McCann was looking our over the swimming pool and did not see Mr McKenzie.

Mr McCann was absolutely distraught telling the person receiving the call that he feared 'she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles'.

He does not know who the person receiving the calls was but presumes it to be a family member.

Mr McKenzie recognises Mr McCann from being in the same holiday complex at the same time.''


Crimstoppers LP POLICE Statement taken 16th September 2007
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm

So it's pretty obvious that probably even before the police arrived the word paedophiles was being used. Surely there was some glimmer of hope that Madeleine might have woke and wondered off or at least would be safely returned.

Interestingly enough, Gerry was NOT on his mobile phone. Not his English one anyway.  His call records (the mobile phone company log, not the ones he keeps deleting from his phone) show that there was no call anywhere near the time that Graham McKenzie saw/heard him talking on his phone.  He subsequently DID use his phone shortly afterwards to contact Kate so it's not like his phone wasn't working/battery was flat.

More than one mobile. I can think of a good reason why someone would have, say, a disposable PAYG phone, can you children? ;-)





Yes, of course. Just in case he lost his other one. Why, whatever can you have been thinking I meant?

[amaraltheofficeboy]

I have seen many stupid posts in my time

[gilet]

Utter and absolute rubbish. It is not simply my opinion of the man. Its a statement of fact. It is a disgrace that a serving policeman should firstly get a criminal conviction for covering up something his officers had done in relation to the torture of a parent in a missing child case.

*******

Gilet, there is no proof that Mr Amaral covered up torture by his officers. He was found guilty of signing off a report where his officers said that that convicted child murderer had fallen down the stairs. He was not there at the time so took their word for it. The Portuguese courts have ruled that that woman was beaten but no officer was found guilty of doing so. That woman was under the duty of care of the prison service. IMHO the stairs story was to cover up and release from culpability. Occams Razor suggests she was beaten by inmates. She has recently been found guilty of perjury against the PJ and sentenced to another few months inside.

Having not made the claim that you state I made, I simply suggest you read more carefully before posting.  Amaral remains a convicted criminal for an offence committed in relation to that torture. No defamation whatsoever from me.

[stephen25000]

Till then I know that my statement that Amaral is a disgrace to the police force is accurate fact and therefore not defamation.

For the sake of clarity the phrase "a disgrace to the police force " has been used in respect of Gonçalo Amaral by many Press organisations following his conviction whilst a serving officer in the Portuguese police.  It does not constitute a defamation to use this term.  Should his conviction be overturned however that is a different matter.

There have been many phrases and expressions used in the press, and the press regularly defame people, not just in the UK.

If you accept the treatise, that an  'opinion'  if it appears in the press, isn't deformation ,then you are on a slippery slope.

As to the often given 'opinion' by some Mccann supporters that Amaral authorized the beating of Cipriano, that is pure rubbish.

[amaraltheofficeboy]

wow - how to reply to that! eh?

[C.Edwards]

I must say I wholeheartedly agree with those sentiments because the Amaral debacle has caused so much trouble far outside the corridors of justice.   It is about time we found out if Amaral is as good as he makes out to be or if he is just another cop with tunnel vision and an incapacity to realise when he is wrong.

Now that is probably the most sensible thing I've seen you post since I've been on here and is far more in keeping with a moderator of a forum as it shows an open mind towards an outcome as opposed to the standard Amaral-abuser mentality we see from others as it's part of their standard operating handbook they get given when they check their brains in, I think? ;-)

[John]

gilet, I believe you said this.

"Everyone can see that I have not defamed Amaral who incidentally is a convicted criminal and a disgrace to the police force for his actions in another missing child case (but of course you have completely ignored that proven aspect of the man's character haven't you?"

Note the words  ' a disgrace to the police force '.

That is an opinion of yours, and not a fact, therefore can be classified as defamation.

Since if you don't count that as defamation, you can't complain if people view the Mccanns in the same way as regards what they failed to do in PDL.

Stephen, to defame or libel someone you have to put them at some disadvantage or loss.

In other words, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual a negative or inferior image.

The fact that Amaral received a criminal conviction whilst a serving police officer was the means whereby he created that inferior image all on his own, thus rendering the phrase, "a disgrace to the police force" a valid comment.

[gilet]

...

As to the often given 'opinion' by some Mccann supporters that Amaral authorized the beating of Cipriano, that is pure rubbish.

You claim that is an "often given'opinion'. I bet you cannot substantiate your claim can you?

[amaraltheofficeboy]

"The fact that Amaral received a criminal conviction whilst a serving police officer was the means whereby he created that inferior image all on his own, thus rendering the phrase, "a disgrace to the police force" a valid comment."

correction - I don't believe he received a conviction whilst a serving police officer

[stephen25000]

...

As to the often given 'opinion' by some Mccann supporters that Amaral authorized the beating of Cipriano, that is pure rubbish.

You claim that is an "often given'opinion'. I bet you cannot substantiate your claim can you?

Try ......


That floor is yours to explore, literally and metaphorically.

[AnneGuedes]

Martha, you desperately wish to have a child, you try for years in vain, you're an only child and your parents are expecting you to give them a baby to love, you finally manage to have a IVF, it first doesn't result, then it does and you can't believe your eyes, this is the most beautiful day of your life, the best present ever got. Then 4 and half years later, you stupidly leave that child alone without locking the door, because your husband says "it will be fine", letting arrive the worst day of your life : your child isn't there any more, you have to tell your parents, are you going to tell them that you left the door open and some one passed by and took your child ? No, you feel so guilty, so ashamed, this is more than you can bear, you pretend shutters and window were forced.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau describes very well this feeling (a similar episode happened to him) in "Les confessions".