Author Topic: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?  (Read 37578 times)

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Offline Tim Invictus

Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #105 on: April 15, 2013, 09:06:47 PM »
I am by no means an expert on this case but would like to address the subject matter of this thread. Anyone who 'doubts the McCanns' can certainly express their views in safety here as far as I am concerned. Subject to usual forum standars of decency of course.

Personally, I have doubted the McCanns from the beginning. I cannot substantiate these concerns other than I feel there is something not right about the parents; especially Kate.  And I think Gerry knows what happened. I freely admit I could be being grossly unfair to greiving parents but nevertheless it's how I feel.

I remember feeling disgusted that these two highly paid professionals used the Maddie Fund to pay the mortgage on their very nice house! This was certainly published in the press; does anyone know if this was proven to be true or not?

Offline gilet

Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #106 on: April 15, 2013, 09:07:31 PM »
"The fact that Amaral received a criminal conviction whilst a serving police officer was the means whereby he created that inferior image all on his own, thus rendering the phrase, "a disgrace to the police force" a valid comment."

corrextion - I don't believe he received a conviction whilst a sewrving police officer

Better to say that "he received a conviction for an offence which he committed whilst a serving police officer".

Offline gilet

Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #107 on: April 15, 2013, 09:11:17 PM »
When you make claims here, the forum rules say you should provide links. That does not mean a link to a whole forum but to specific evidence of the claim you are making.

Now can you do that or are you just like Luz who has failed every time she has been asked to do so?

« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 09:16:33 PM by John »

Offline John

Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #108 on: April 15, 2013, 09:14:21 PM »

As to the often given 'opinion' by some McCann supporters that Amaral authorized the beating of Cipriano, that is pure rubbish.

We don't know that Stephen.  What concerns me though is that those detectives were under the direct authority of Amaral and in the circumstances they felt that they could do it and what's more get away with it.  What does that tell you?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #109 on: April 15, 2013, 09:15:29 PM »
I am by no means an expert on this case but would like to address the subject matter of this thread. Anyone who 'doubts the McCanns' can certainly express their views in safety here as far as I am concerned. Subject to usual forum standars of decency of course.

Personally, I have doubted the McCanns from the beginning. I cannot substantiate these concerns other than I feel there is something not right about the parents; especially Kate.  And I think Gerry knows what happened. I freely admit I could be being grossly unfair to greiving parents but nevertheless it's how I feel.

I remember feeling disgusted that these two highly paid professionals used the Maddie Fund to pay the mortgage on their very nice house! This was certainly published in the press; does anyone know if this was proven to be true or not?

I don't know if the mortgage payments claim was ever confirmed,  sorry

I'm  sure there will be someone here who will though

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #110 on: April 15, 2013, 09:15:59 PM »
Gilet, perhaps you need to reread what you wrote and my response,before respondong to me at 9.59. Cheers.



Offline DCI

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Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #111 on: April 15, 2013, 09:16:33 PM »
"The fact that Amaral received a criminal conviction whilst a serving police officer was the means whereby he created that inferior image all on his own, thus rendering the phrase, "a disgrace to the police force" a valid comment."

correction - I don't believe he received a conviction whilst a serving police officer

He may not have received a conviction whilst a serving police officer, but he was made an arguido, on the 4th May 2007.
He was also being taken to court by his brother, for fraud. This was proved. His wife reported him, in December 2007, for threats made to her, not giving her daughter back to her, and leaving the child alone, while he was drinking with friends in a bar.
Its all documented, with police reports.

Kate's 500 Mile Cycle Challenge

https://www.justgiving.com/KateMcCann/

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #112 on: April 15, 2013, 09:18:43 PM »
"The fact that Amaral received a criminal conviction whilst a serving police officer was the means whereby he created that inferior image all on his own, thus rendering the phrase, "a disgrace to the police force" a valid comment."

correction - I don't believe he received a conviction whilst a serving police officer

He may not have received a conviction whilst a serving police officer, but he was made an arguido, on the 4th May 2007.
He was also being taken to court by his brother, for fraud. This was proved. His wife reported him, in December 2007, for threats made to her, not giving her daughter back to her, and leaving the child alone, while he was drinking with friends in a bar.
Its all documented, with police reports.

I think the allegations also included that he drove police cars while drunk and with his daughter inside?

Offline John

Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #113 on: April 15, 2013, 09:19:37 PM »
Martha, you desperately wish to have a child, you try for years in vain, you're an only child and your parents are expecting you to give them a baby to love, you finally manage to have a IVF, it first doesn't result, then it does and you can't believe your eyes, this is the most beautiful day of your life, the best present ever got. Then 4 and half years later, you stupidly leave that child alone without locking the door, because your husband says "it will be fine", letting arrive the worst day of your life : your child isn't there any more, you have to tell your parents, are you going to tell them that you left the door open and some one passed by and took your child ? No, you feel so guilty, so ashamed, this is more than you can bear, you pretend shutters and window were forced.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau describes very well this feeling (a similar episode happened to him) in "Les confessions".

A good post Anne.  Could it have been so hard to lock the patio doors?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #114 on: April 15, 2013, 09:20:44 PM »

I have read there occasionally but have never seen that specific claim. Please point to a few examples or are you simply making it up? When you make claims here, the forum rules say you should provide links. That does not mean a link to a whole forum but to specific evidence of the claim you are making.

Now can you do that or are you just like Luz who has failed every time she has been asked to do so?


I read it there some time ago and I am not prepared to trawl through the sewer that ..... is.

It is a den of hate and anyone who agrees with views there, is just as bad as them.

Meanwhile your hatred of Amaral is clear to see from your writing and your stance is not neutral, it merely follows the Mccann line.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 09:27:42 PM by John »

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #115 on: April 15, 2013, 09:23:21 PM »


I don't know if the mortgage payments claim was ever confirmed,  sorry

I'm  sure there will be someone here who will though

The mortgage payments in the region of 5-6 thousand pounds were confirmed to have been made from the Fund by their personal spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, both on Tv and on a radio show. The terms of the fund were set up to include it helping the Mccann family financially so in that sense they did nothing wrong.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #116 on: April 15, 2013, 09:26:30 PM »
I am by no means an expert on this case but would like to address the subject matter of this thread. Anyone who 'doubts the McCanns' can certainly express their views in safety here as far as I am concerned. Subject to usual forum standars of decency of course.

Personally, I have doubted the McCanns from the beginning. I cannot substantiate these concerns other than I feel there is something not right about the parents; especially Kate.  And I think Gerry knows what happened. I freely admit I could be being grossly unfair to greiving parents but nevertheless it's how I feel.

I remember feeling disgusted that these two highly paid professionals used the Maddie Fund to pay the mortgage on their very nice house! This was certainly published in the press; does anyone know if this was proven to be true or not?

I don't know if the mortgage payments claim was ever confirmed,  sorry

I'm  sure there will be someone here who will though
I don't know either but it has never been denied or explained by Clarence M. I always wondered how this had come out. Personally I'm not chocked, they were not earning or not earning as much as when working, mortgages don't wait, etc.

Offline gilet

Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #117 on: April 15, 2013, 09:28:10 PM »

I read it there some time ago and I am not prepared to trawl through the sewer that ..... is.

It is a den of hate and anyone who agrees with views there, is just as bad as them.

Meanwhile your hatred of Amaral is clear to see from your writing and your stance is not neutral, it merely follows the Mccann line.

So like Luz, you have failed completely to post any evidence for your claim. I am sure readers here will take note of those failures.  They are not conducive to good debate.

Your so-called knowledge of my opinion of Amaral is interesting. The fact is that I have only stated categorical facts about Goncalo Amaral. I have expressed no opinion about the man.  It is a statement of fact that his behaviour was disgraceful. In this country he would never have been in charge of the McCann case because his being a suspect in such a serious breach of procedure in another missing child case that it eventually led to his conviction would have probably have seen him suspended and would at the very least have seen him removed to less controversial roles.

I follow the line of wishing to find the truth. And your posting of speculation without evidence as fact is never going to help anyone get to that goal.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 09:29:02 PM by John »

Offline John

Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #118 on: April 15, 2013, 09:32:19 PM »

I don't know either but it has never been denied or explained by Clarence M. I always wondered how this had come out. Personally I'm not chocked, they were not earning or not earning as much as when working, mortgages don't wait, etc.

It is a moral dilemma and a fine line to tread.   >@@(*&)

What were the options?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Can People Who Doubt the McCanns Safely Debate on This Forum ?
« Reply #119 on: April 15, 2013, 09:35:44 PM »

I read it there some time ago and I am not prepared to trawl through the sewer that ..... is.

It is a den of hate and anyone who agrees with views there, is just as bad as them.

Meanwhile your hatred of Amaral is clear to see from your writing and your stance is not neutral, it merely follows the Mccann line.

So like Luz, you have failed completely to post any evidence for your claim. I am sure readers here will take note of those failures.  They are not conducive to good debate.

Your so-called knowledge of my opinion of Amaral is interesting. The fact is that I have only stated categorical facts about Goncalo Amaral. I have expressed no opinion about the man.  It is a statement of fact that his behaviour was disgraceful. In this country he would never have been in charge of the McCann case because his being a suspect in such a serious breach of procedure in another missing child case that it eventually led to his conviction would have probably have seen him suspended and would at the very least have seen him removed to less controversial roles.

I follow the line of wishing to find the truth. And your posting of speculation without evidence as fact is never going to help anyone get to that goal.


The 'beating up' of Cipriano has not been proved to be carried out by the police.

There is no proof Amaral took part in her alleged 'beating up'.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Meanwhile, from a poster on Amazon, would you care to answer the following points.

' Might be worth reminding gilet to read the forensics reports, too. I honestly do not know how s/he has become so confused, they are all over the place.
He claims that
'' It was the PJ who failed to collect samples from the bed. It was Amaral who was coordinating the PJ at that time. When a police force fails so badly to collect such potential vital evidence in a missing child case then I think it is fair to point out their failure and to call it disgraceful work.''

For starters, Madeleine's bed WAS examined, this is from the report of the Crime scene team from the police laboratory

''After the recovery of hairs described above there proceeded the search for possible traces of semen, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, there being identified various [several] areas where fluorescence characteristic of this type of trace evidence was seen.

The areas where the fluorescence was seen were submitted to a "Phosphatise test" search there being a slightly positive reaction (purplish colour) only in area of the bed-cover of the single bed opposite to the bed from where the minor disappeared, a piece of that bed-cover being collected and placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC, it being referenced as trace evidence #5;

A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.''

He then goes on to say this:

'' It was also the PJ who in one of the most strange twists of the case accepted the pillow case brought by Gerry McCann back from Rothley as evidence. Having failed to find any DNA (Were their techniques simply not up to the task? Were they as bad as the fingerprinting techniques which Amaral himself says were not the best?) they should then have liaised with Leicester Police for a reference DNA sample from the house and should never have simply accepted a sample via the father of the missing child. Such incredible stupidity on the part of the PJ was the responsibility of Goncalo Amaral who was co-ordinating the PJ team who allowed it.''

This is all nonsense, and would put the mythmakers to shame

The pillowcase was examined and a surrogate reference sample recovered by the FSS, in England, not brought back to Portugal. It had nothing to do with Amaral and none of gilet's subsequent claims make any sense whatsoever.

Again, this is all covered in some detail in the PJ files, so there really is no excuse. '

I await your reply.