Could Madeleine have slid open the unlocked patio door?

[sadie]

Even if the door wasn't latched she would still need her fingers to push or pull it.  How do you think she managed it ... did she blow on it? 

Unless it was a very Rolls Royce sort of window (and the place does not look Rolls Royce at all), and the patio slid open very easily, I am very doubtful that she could manage to open the patio door at all let alone close it and manage all the near impossible obstacles ahead.

Why wouldn't she have shouted her Mum and Dad , she surely could see and hear them * if * she managed that door .... and they would hear her too.  Parents hear the distressed cry of their children over everything else.  The group would see her, imo

IMO, you are all barking up the wrong tree.

87

[Mr Gray]

Even if the door wasn't latched she would still need her fingers to push or pull it.  How do you think she managed it ... did she blow on it? 

Unless it was a very Rolls Royce sort of window (and the place does not look Rolls Royce at all), and the patio slid open very easily, I am very doubtful that she could manage to open the patio door at all let alone close it and manage all the near impossible obstacles ahead.

Why wouldn't she have shouted her Mum and Dad , she surely could see and hear them * if * she managed that door .... and they would hear her too.  Parents hear the distressed cry of their children over everything else.  The group would see her, imo

IMO, you are all barking up the wrong tree.

I tried a sliding door last week.... Pulling as an adult horizontally it was not difficult  to open.... Reaching up as a child would have to it was impossible IMO

[ShiningInLuz]

I tried a sliding door last week.... Pulling as an adult horizontally it was not difficult  to open.... Reaching up as a child would have to it was impossible IMO

Do tell us how you simulated being a child Madeleine's height.   

[Mr Gray]

Do tell us how you simulated being a child Madeleine's height.   

Read the post again it's self explanatory.... I bent my knees and bent my elbow...hows that....rocket science

[G-Unit]

I tried a sliding door last week.... Pulling as an adult horizontally it was not difficult  to open.... Reaching up as a child would have to it was impossible

One wonders why they sell locks for these doors;

Sliding Door Locks for Baby Proofing | Keyless Child Safety Locks For Patio, Closet, Shower Sliding Doors, Shutters & more | No Tools Install (4 Pack, White)

Keeps Your Toddler Safe - You will have peace of mind knowing your toddler cannot wander outside the minute you turn your back.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sliding-Proofing-Keyless-Shutters-Install/dp/B01CFCDGHE

[Mr Gray]

One wonders why they sell locks for these doors;

Sliding Door Locks for Baby Proofing | Keyless Child Safety Locks For Patio, Closet, Shower Sliding Doors, Shutters & more | No Tools Install (4 Pack, White)

Keeps Your Toddler Safe - You will have peace of mind knowing your toddler cannot wander outside the minute you turn your back.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sliding-Proofing-Keyless-Shutters-Install/dp/B01CFCDGHE

shops are full of things we dont need...havent you noticed...you must be a  salesmans dream...they do it to make money...baby proofing patio doors sounds a bit of a joke to me

[Mr Gray]

Do tell us how you simulated being a child Madeleine's height.   

lets say a force applied in a horizontal direction has a value x....then the same force applied at an angle has a value x times the cosine of the angle but also produces a downward force x times sine of the angle which causes a substantial increase in friction...but im sure you understood all this already

[ShiningInLuz]

Read the post again it's self explanatory.... I bent my knees and bent my elbow...hows that....rocket science

I've read it again and it is not self-explanatory, otherwise why did you give an explanation of how you did it?

And, IMO, your emulation is a poor match for Madeleine.

But whatever makes you happy.   

[Mr Gray]

I've read it again and it is not self-explanatory, otherwise why did you give an explanation of how you did it?

And, IMO, your emulation is a poor match for Madeleine.

But whatever makes you happy.   

Imo it gave me insight
As I have tried to explain from a mathematical point... Not opinion... Is how much difference trying to open a sliding door from a lower point makes...
I happened to try this out in practice and was astonished at the result.. Perhaps you should try it before giving your opinion


And again... I bent my knees and elbow

[Mr Gray]

Perhaps others might like to try..
Open a sliding door with your elbow at the same height as the handle..
Then try with your elbow in a vertical line to the handle

[slartibartfast]

Perhaps others might like to try..
Open a sliding door with your elbow at the same height as the handle..
Then try with your elbow in a vertical line to the handle

Why is that relevant? Average height 4 yo girl is about 105 cm. Handle should be between 90cm and 100cm a fairly straight pull. In fact a lot straighter than for an adult.

[Mr Gray]

Why is that relevant? Average height 4 yo girl is about 105 cm. Handle should be between 90cm and 100cm a fairly straight pull. In fact a lot straighter than for an adult.

No... A child would have to have their elbow at head height or above to apply a horizontal force... Not possible. Imo... Much more likely to reach up with a, straight arm

[ShiningInLuz]

lets say a force applied in a horizontal direction has a value x....then the same force applied at an angle has a value x times the cosine of the angle but also produces a downward force x times sine of the angle which causes a substantial increase in friction...but im sure you understood all this already

You have mashed up a horizontal with a hypoteneuse of the same length, but hey-ho.

Quite why you think an adult applies a horizontal force eludes me.

Quite why you think Madeleine applied a downward  force also eludes me.

And your emulation fails to answer whether Madeleine could or could not open the patio door.

I seem to remember one explanation of the unlocked patio door was so that Madeleine could get out if need be.  If so, trigonometry does not enter the equation.

[Robittybob1]

No... A child would have to have their elbow at head height or above to apply a horizontal force... Not possible. Imo... Much more likely to reach up with a, straight arm

The real test would be a 4 year old.

[Mr Gray]

The real test would be a 4 year old.

maddie was three and small for her age.....