UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Gadfly on July 10, 2014, 09:55:04 PM
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So what is definitively known about this arguido then?
1) Questioned on the basis of phone data.
2) On his balcony on the night, watching the search unfold -- but didn't help.
3) Lives close by to the Ocean Club.
4) Knows the Ocean Club intimately - worked there at the time.
5) Single, own apartment.
6) Convicted of burglary in the past.
7) Unskilled worker, low socio-economic status.
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Witness Statement
Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva
Date: 2007-05-08
Occupation: Driver
Place of Work: OC
Comes to the process as a witness.
He has worked as a driver at the OC since the 26th March of this year. His functions consist of driving the tourists from the reception to the apartments where they are staying. His working hours are from 11.00 to 16.00, except for Thursdays and Saturdays which are the days guests arrive and leave and when he starts and finishes work much earlier and later. He knows the resort well as he circulates throughout the whole resort.
When asked whether he knows about the disappearance he says that he heard about it on the day of the disappearance at about 23.00 because he was on his balcony and two men passed by and asked him whether he had seen a small girl who had gone missing from a restaurant. On the following day when he arrived at work he was told all the details. When asked, he replies that he does not think he saw or spoke to the girl or her family before the disappearance. He only knew who they were from the news.
Nobody made any comments to him about the guests or about children in the preceding days.
He did not see anyone suspicious or any unusual vehicles.
No more is said.
Reads, ratifies, signs.
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This guy is innocent.
The innocent two searchers who told him 11pmish on his balcony about the disappearance are possibly DP and ROB.
And it shows that no-one on this forum has the DVD as if anyone did they would know what building balcony was on.
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This guy is innocent.
The innocent two searchers who told him 11pmish on his balcony about the disappearance are possibly DP and ROB.
And it shows that no-one on this forum has the DVD as if anyone did they would know what building balcony was on.
Edificio Luztur, right?
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Edificio Luztur, right?
I believe so.
Same location as mentioned on crimewatch special 11pmish so probably same two innocent searchers.
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I believe so.
Same location as mentioned on crimewatch special 11pmish so probably same two innocent searchers.
Maybe he was on his balcony at 2300hrs but his phone pings showed movement between 2100 & 2300 elsewhere and that is why he is under suspicion.
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Maybe he was on his balcony at 2300hrs but his phone pings showed movement between 2100 & 2300 elsewhere and that is why he is under suspicion.
No triangulation has been done sufficient to determine position within PDL.
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No triangulation has been done sufficient to determine position within PDL.
How long would it have taken him to drive to, say, Lagos & back? He doesn't have an alibi.
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How long would it have taken him to drive to, say, Lagos & back? He doesn't have an alibi.
The only thing this guy has did wrong is living in PDL and using his phone in PDL.
In other words - nothing.
SY have never said he has a criminal record.
There is nothing in the files saying he has a criminal record.
Heriberto claimed that he has, and that it's in the files, but the only two page numbers he posted (so far) are completely devoid of any mention of criminal record.
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The only thing this guy has did wrong is living in PDL and using his phone in PDL.
In other words - nothing.
SY have never said he has a criminal record.
There is nothing in the files saying he has a criminal record.
Heriberto claimed that he has, and that it's in the files, but the only two page numbers he posted (so far) are completely devoid of any mention of criminal record.
Please don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying the guy is guilty of anything, but clearly the Met had a good reason to question him.
As far as Heriberto's claims go - and I stand to be corrected - aren't journalists permitted to view the full files & make notes for research purposes, but not actually directly copy content or release specific details to the public? I think that may be why he is unable to answer your question about the page number detailing the criminal record.
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Apparently the idea of a record for theft comes from a handwritten word "furto" which may appear next to some of the printed names on a list of employees.
ETA Source: Vol 4 Pages 250 and 251 - handwritten notes next to some names
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The only thing this guy has did wrong is living in PDL and using his phone in PDL.
In other words - nothing.
SY have never said he has a criminal record.
There is nothing in the files saying he has a criminal record.
Heriberto claimed that he has, and that it's in the files, but the only two page numbers he posted (so far) are completely devoid of any mention of criminal record.
Wait!
Wasn't he questioned because he was in several phone conversations with the two other guys who were picked up due to several specific phone conversations and possibly being near 5A and later near Smiths sighting?
Remember Edward Snowden? He mentioned a posibility of a suspects contacts networks being investigated i.e.if there is a suspect then they have a software to straight away get the whole net of the potential contacts lists..
Maybe SY uses something similar?
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Wait!
Wasn't he questioned because he was in several phone conversations with the two other guys who were picked up due to several specific phone conversations and possibly being near 5A and later near Smiths sighting?
Remember Edward Snowden? He mentioned a posibility of a suspects contacts networks being investigated i.e.if there is a suspect then they have a software to straight away get the whole net of the potential contacts lists..
Maybe SY uses something similar?
All 3 lived in PDL and used phones in PDL that night.
As did many other people - locals, UK workers, tourists.
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Wait!
Wasn't he questioned because he was in several phone conversations with the two other guys who were picked up due to several specific phone conversations and possibly being near 5A and later near Smiths sighting?
Remember Edward Snowden? He mentioned a posibility of a suspects contacts networks being investigated i.e.if there is a suspect then they have a software to straight away get the whole net of the potential contacts lists..
Maybe SY uses something similar?
You could use Excel.
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Wait!
Wasn't he questioned because he was in several phone conversations with the two other guys who were picked up due to several specific phone conversations and possibly being near 5A and later near Smiths sighting?
Remember Edward Snowden? He mentioned a posibility of a suspects contacts networks being investigated i.e.if there is a suspect then they have a software to straight away get the whole net of the potential contacts lists..
Maybe SY uses something similar?
I don't think there is any need for concern that their lives may be ruined by their association with the investigation as they appear to be well known and well liked in Luz where people do not believe in their guilt; this is as it should be; it would be excellent if the same consideration was allowed to Madeleine's parents.
There were phone calls coinciding with key times in the investigation; one to one who then phoned others:
Eg: Madeleine leaving the crèche. This was repeated on three occasions - if one places trust in tabloid reports.
If the Met and the PJ thought the men were worth interviewing even for elimination purposes, that’s fine by me.
It was the PJ who constituted them arguidos, so they must have evidence of something to enable that, even if it is nothing to do with Madeleine.
We shall just have to wait and see.
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I don't think there is any need for concern that their lives may be ruined by their association with the investigation as they appear to be well known and well liked in Luz where people do not believe in their guilt; this is as it should be; it would be excellent if the same consideration was allowed to Madeleine's parents.
There were phone calls coinciding with key times in the investigation; one to one who then phoned others:
Eg: Madeleine leaving the crèche. This was repeated on three occasions - if one places trust in tabloid reports.
If the Met and the PJ thought the men were worth interviewing even for elimination purposes, that’s fine by me.
It was the PJ who constituted them arguidos, so they must have evidence of something to enable that, even if it is nothing to do with Madeleine.
We shall just have to wait and see.
What has not been revealed is where or if Euclides Monteiro fits into the phone analysis linking the 3 "burglars", as I am presuming they were his alleged associates before he passed away?
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What has not been revealed is where or if Euclides Monteiro fits into the phone analysis linking the 3 "burglars", as I am presuming they were his alleged associates before he passed away?
The PJ seem to be satisfied of his involvement, I think that has been said officially and not from 'a source close to the investigation'. Initial newspaper reports suggested it was his phone being in the vicinity of 5a which excited their initial interest.
... evidence of some kind must have suggested further information was required from the four arguidos and those interviewed as witnesses, whether that was in the files the police have and/or from new witnesses or witnesses ignored by the initial investigation... can only be speculation at the moment.
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How long would it have taken him to drive to, say, Lagos & back? He doesn't have an alibi.
Not long. Little traffic if any.
4.2 miles going the local route along Rua Direita
5.2 miles along the faster N125
I have measured from PdL church to the top end of Lagos Marina
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This guy is innocent.
The innocent two searchers who told him 11pmish on his balcony about the disappearance are possibly DP and ROB.
And it shows that no-one on this forum has the DVD as if anyone did they would know what building balcony was on.
I am sure if that is the case he will have nothing to worry about.
IMO there is a mind-set which cannot subscribe to any concept which does not point to the guilt of the McCann family.
I think this mentality may have led to a resistance of investigating and examining others with the vigour which was applied to the McCann party; which has led to obvious avenues of investigation being disregarded until given proper scrutiny by Operation Grange which was set up in 2011.
Every statement made by the McCann party has been dissected and rubbished; statements made by anyone else have been treated as ‘gospel’ particularly proven erroneous ones such as amendment to the originals made by Mr Smith and Mr McClusky both later retracted, but one at least still quoted as an article of faith.
This attitude is illustrated by the proper reaction to the questioning of the four arguidos; one doesn’t have to stretch the imagination too much to imagine the different response if these four were even loosely connected to the Drs McCann and their party.
Whether or not there is a connection to Madeleine there are reasons why these four have attracted interest; Heriberto, an individual working on his own without the resources available to policing worked out that there were anomalies in the information contained in the files, to which we have access, which are worthy of a further look.
His analysis of the information led him to the conclusion that certain individuals needed to be interviewed to rule them in or to rule them out; I believe that is what is happening now.
The fact that an individual was on his balcony at a time after the event does not automatically clear him. IMO it puts him right at the seat of things at a time when a worried person might look over a balcony to check outside; one who did not take an opportunity to leave his residence to assist in the search.
I do agree that he is 'innocent' until there is evidence which might lead to a conviction. There again ... so are the Drs McCann ... and according to the PJ and the Met, they are not persons of interest ... so why have the campaigns against them increased at a greater rate as official interest switches elsewhere?
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I am sure if that is the case he will have nothing to worry about.
IMO there is a mind-set which cannot subscribe to any concept which does not point to the guilt of the McCann family.
I think this mentality may have led to a resistance of investigating and examining others with the vigour which was applied to the McCann party; which has led to obvious avenues of investigation being disregarded until given proper scrutiny by Operation Grange which was set up in 2011.
Every statement made by the McCann party has been dissected and rubbished; statements made by anyone else have been treated as ‘gospel’ particularly proven erroneous ones such as amendment to the originals made by Mr Smith and Mr McClusky both later retracted, but one at least still quoted as an article of faith.
This attitude is illustrated by the proper reaction to the questioning of the four arguidos; one doesn’t have to stretch the imagination too much to imagine the different response if these four were even loosely connected to the Drs McCann and their party.
Whether or not there is a connection to Madeleine there are reasons why these four have attracted interest; Heriberto, an individual working on his own without the resources available to policing worked out that there were anomalies in the information contained in the files, to which we have access, which are worthy of a further look.
His analysis of the information led him to the conclusion that certain individuals needed to be interviewed to rule them in or to rule them out; I believe that is what is happening now.
The fact that an individual was on his balcony at a time after the event does not automatically clear him. IMO it puts him right at the seat of things at a time when a worried person might look over a balcony to check outside; one who did not take an opportunity to leave his residence to assist in the search.
I do agree that he is 'innocent' until there is evidence which might lead to a conviction. There again ... so are the Drs McCann ... and according to the PJ and the Met, they are not persons of interest ... so why have the campaigns against them increased at a greater rate as official interest switches elsewhere?
Has it ? Can't say that I've noticed.
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Re the word "furto" (which translates as "theft") annotated in handwriting by PJ next to this name in a list of employees.
Peeps fail to notice that there are other such annotations on the list.
For example another "furto" next to someone who had been in apartment a few days before.
Or a "burla, falsificação, trafico" next to another name.
If you check criminal record system for previous of any large group of peeps you are going to find a few.
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On topic, I pointed out that there is the word "furto" ("theft) handwritten next to this name in a list in the files.
But there are also words (such as "furto" theft, "trafico" trafficking, "burla" fraud, "falsificação" forgery) handwritten next to a small % of other names in the list.
So why focus on this one man? - it seems unfair and unbalanced.
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On topic, I pointed out that there is the word "furto" ("theft) handwritten next to this name in a list in the files.
But there are also words (such as "furto" theft, "trafico" trafficking, "burla" fraud, "falsificação" forgery) handwritten next to a small % of other names in the list.
So why focus on this one man? - it seems unfair and unbalanced.
I certainly agree, evidence of (comparatively minor) dishonesty in unrelated matters is no basis, on its own, for suspicion of some involvement in something much more serious concerning a child ...
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I certainly agree, evidence of (comparatively minor) dishonesty in unrelated matters is no basis, on its own, for suspicion of some involvement in something much more serious concerning a child ...
When checking out peeps with "previous" it seems unbalanced to pick on one guy of whom there is no indication he ever entered that apartment, whereas another had been in there a few days before, and another was in there after the alarm that night. I am assuming all these peeps are innocent, it's reasonable to check them out to rule them out, just pointing out the imbalance of picking on just one.
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When checking out peeps with "previous" it seems unbalanced to pick on one guy of whom there is no indication he ever entered that apartment, whereas another had been in there a few days before, and another was in there after the alarm that night. I am assuming all these peeps are innocent, it's reasonable to check them out to rule them out, just pointing out the imbalance of picking on just one.
Without prejudice - there must have been further information which led to him being 'singled out' ... a handwritten annotation would not be sufficient.
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Without prejudice - there must have been further information which led to him being 'singled out' ... a handwritten annotation would not be sufficient.
Well one of the bits of further information was that JS had phonecalls with RR who supposedly resembled one of the charity collector efits.
BTW JS never had phonecalls with the other man PR.
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Well one of the bits of further information was that JS had phonecalls with RR who supposedly resembled one of the charity collector efits.
BTW JS never had phonecalls with the other man PR.
Basically all we have are press reports ... experience has taught us the value of those.
If an official statement is made we shall have the truth of it; till then we will just have to content ourseves with the knowledge that the authorities who have access to much more accurate information than is available to us or the press (whose main interest is in sales) are getting on with the job of investigating the case.
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Basically all we have are press reports ... experience has taught us the value of those.
If an official statement is made we shall have the truth of it; till then we will just have to content ourseves with the knowledge that the authorities who have access to much more accurate information than is available to us or the press (whose main interest is in sales) are getting on with the job of investigating the case.
One of the phone communications (a 58 second phone call between the mobiles of JS and RR) was confirmed by Heriberto from actual mobile network records in the published files, so that is substantial, not conjecture.
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One of the phone communications (a 58 second phone call between the mobiles of JS and RR) was confirmed by Heriberto from actual mobile network records in the published files, so that is substantial, not conjecture.
I have followed Heriberto’s blog since September last year; I have the highest regard for his meticulous work on Madeleine’s case; I know that he has communicated his findings to the authorities, which may well have been noted and acted on. Heriberto is very generous in explaining exactly the methodology he uses to reach his conclusions. I would never suggest that anything he has to say is speculation.
I do take on board what you have said about the phone calls and agree that it is substantial information from a learned source, but still do not trust what the press get hold of and the spin that is sometimes put on it.
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I have followed Heriberto’s blog since September last year; I have the highest regard for his meticulous work on Madeleine’s case; I know that he has communicated his findings to the authorities, which may well have been noted and acted on. Heriberto is very generous in explaining exactly the methodology he uses to reach his conclusions. I would never suggest that anything he has to say is speculation.
I do take on board what you have said about the phone calls and agree that it is substantial information from a learned source, but still do not trust what the press get hold of and the spin that is sometimes put on it.
I echo Briettas words.
He is meticulous in every way. A real in-depth sleuth, accurate with his findings .... and a very nice man.
The worst thing this forum ever did, in the early days, was to rubbish Heribertos work.
He is a BIG man to have come back here and explained his findings. This time please listen to him and consider sensibly.
As Brietta says, it is the spin that the press and others put in his findings that we have to be aware of and watch out for.
What Heri says will be accurate.
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Data does not require translation just a lot of meticulous work and perhaps a mathematical brain.
Heriberto indicated a line of inquiry based on meticulous research ... despite gaps in the documentation available to him, for which he made an appeal ... he identified an individual who should be questioned, to be ruled in or out of the inquiry.
He was not named in Heri's blog, but his name was forwarded to Portuguese and British police.
That individual has been questioned as an arguido.
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Data does not require translation just a lot of meticulous work and perhaps a mathematical brain.
Heriberto indicated a line of inquiry based on meticulous research ... despite gaps in the documentation available to him, for which he made an appeal ... he identified an individual who should be questioned, to be ruled in or out of the inquiry.
He was not named in Heri's blog, but his name was forwarded to Portuguese and British police.
That individual has been questioned as an arguido.
I'm confused Brietta. If the individual was not named in Heri's blog, how do we know who he named and at what point did he tell us this ?
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I'm confused Brietta. If the individual was not named in Heri's blog, how do we know who he named and at what point did he tell us this ?
I know because he gave me the name at least 6 months before SY openly showed any interest in this man.
Maybe the same with Brietta?
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I'm confused Brietta. If the individual was not named in Heri's blog, how do we know who he named and at what point did he tell us this ?
Heriberto described him accurately, in a way that peeps who knew the files could work out who he was talking about.
With greatest respect for the detailed research, and for the very good window/shutter opening method video (which I think is what happened), the assumption that the awoken child would walk towards the figure at the window is absolutely incorrect (by 180 degrees).
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Heriberto described him accurately, in a way that peeps who knew the files would know who he was talking about.
With greatest respect for the detailed research, and for the very good window/shutter opening method video (which I think is what happened), the assumption that a frightened child would walk towards the figure at the window is absolutely incorrect (by 180 degrees).
So what if a person that Madeleine knew like a nanny or cleaner or someone who had been specially kind was with the shutter and window opener.
What if he/ she said that Mummy had sent her to fetch Madeleine? "Shush, dont wake the twins?"
What if Madeleine was tempted with some sweeties by someone she knew and trusted.
Pegasus, sorry but I dont know that you are right.
I still think, however, that the front door was used, in and out
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So what is a person tat Madeleine knew like a nanany or cleaner or someone who had been specially kind aws with tghe shutter and window opener.
What if he/ she said that Mummy had sent her to fetch Madeleine? Shush, dont wake the twins?
What if Madeleine was tempted with some sweeties by someone she knew and trusted.
Pegasus, sorry but I dont know that you are right.
I still think, however, thta the front door was used, in and out
It is simple. Look at the game of monster. Is the idea to run towards it? Or away?
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It is simple. Look at the game of monster. Is the idea to run towards it? Or away?
Sorry, we are not talking monsters here but people who maybe Madeleine knew and liked. I would be looking at people who made a special fuss of her now, if I were an official investiagtor.
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Sorry, we are not talking monsters here but people who maybe Madeleine knew and liked. I would be looking at people who made a special fuss of her now, if I were an official investiagtor.
So now are you going to attack the nanny?
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So now are you going to attack the nanny?
I think the intruder entered via the door leading to the car park and exited the same way.
If someone opened the window, I doubt if Madeleine would have approached a stranger; but someone she knew and trusted would have had no problem enticing her over to lift her out.
Who did she know best?
I doubt she would have known any of the arguidos well enough to approach the window of her own volition but she knew the nannies.
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So now are you going to attack the nanny?
I have singled nobody out, just mentioned in vague terms the sort of people likely
Please do not put words in my mouth. I dont do that to you !
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I think the intruder entered via the door leading to the car park and exited the same way.
If someone opened the window, I doubt if Madeleine would have approached a stranger; but someone she knew and trusted would have had no problem enticing her over to lift her out.
Who did she know best?
I doubt she would have known any of the arguidos well enough to approach the window of her own volition but she knew the nannies.
The north door had a fairly good lock.
The credit card trick would not work on that lock.
To open that door from outside without force would require the person to have a key
(or to find a key just outside, for example under the doormat, or in the lower of the two buckets).
Where was the one key which had been issued to the family?
Did one of the parents have it in a pocket at the restaurant?
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The north door had a fairly good lock.
The credit card trick would not work on that lock.
To open that door from outside without force would require the person to have a key
(or to find a key, for example under the mat, or in the lower of the two buckets).
Where was the one key which had been issued to the family?
Did one of the parents have it in a pocket at the restaurant?
From a burglar's point of view, the location of the key was irrelevant if they planned on accessing the apartment via the window. If they'd been observing the family & friends, and seen them accessing & leaving via the patio door, then I've no doubt that would have been the chosen point of entry.
If the police are indeed working on the bungled burglary scenario, I wonder what it was the men had seen of value in the McCanns apartment if not Madeleine?
If I may ask again, can anyone please tell me what those 3 hatches are used for beside the front door of 5a?
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The north door had a fairly good lock.
The credit card trick would not work on that lock.
To open that door from outside without force would require the person to have a key
(or to find a key just outside, for example under the doormat, or in the lower of the two buckets).
Where was the one key which had been issued to the family?
Did one of the parents have it in a pocket at the restaurant?
Could have been any one of the number of keys we know to have been available for the apartment.
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Could have been any one of the number of keys we know to have been available for the apartment.
I think no intruder entered and no key was used.
But if a key was used it could have been:
A. Key from OC key safe.
B. Key from set of keys reportedly lost by a maintenance worker TS shortly before.
C. Key which had been issued to the family.
Looking at option C first, if one of the parents had that key in pocket at restaurant, an intruder would certainly not be able to use it. But hypothetically if that key had been concealed just outside the north door, like under the doormat (not unheard of in this group) or in the buckets, an intruder would hypothetically be able to find it and use it. Anyone know if the key was actually taken to the restaurant?
BTW Where did the burglar get the key to burgle Paris Hilton's mansion?
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I think no intruder entered and no key was used.
But if a key was used it could have been:
A. Key from OC key safe.
B. Key from set of keys reportedly lost by a maintenance worker TS shortly before.
C. Key which had been issued to the family.
Looking at option C first, if one of the parents had that key in pocket at restaurant, an intruder would certainly not be able to use it. But hypothetically if that key had been concealed just outside the north door, like under the doormat (not unheard of in this group) or in the buckets, an intruder would hypothetically be able to find it and use it. Anyone know if the key was actually taken to the restaurant?
BTW Where did the burglar get the key to burgle Paris Hilton's mansion?
It is thought Mrs Fenn's intruder let himself in with a key:
In the weeks before Madeleine disappeared Mrs Fenn scared off an intruder who had apparently let himself into her apartment with a key.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html
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It's too bad that residents of Praia da Luz with minor misdemeanors to their name couldn't make phonecalls on 3/4 May 2007 without now seven years later being considered as child abductors. Have investigators so little to go on that they now resolve to destroy other lives with this nonsense in order to justify their own existence? The question must be asked as to why has this all been made public?
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It's too bad that residents of Praia da Luz with minor misdemeanors to their name couldn't make phonecalls on 3/4 May 2007 without now seven years later being considered as child abductors. Have investigators so little to go on that they now resolve to destroy other lives with this nonsense in order to justify their own existence? The question must be asked as to why has this all been made public?
Right on the mark. 8@??)( 8@??)(
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It's too bad that residents of Praia da Luz with minor misdemeanors to their name couldn't make phonecalls on 3/4 May 2007 without now seven years later being considered as child abductors. Have investigators so little to go on that they now resolve to destroy other lives with this nonsense in order to justify their own existence? The question must be asked as to why has this all been made public?
I am sorry Admin, but if someone is a burglar they are a criminal and should be treated as such by Police.
- In an abduction 'getting in' quietly is one of the skills used.
- Having the courage / audacity to do so is another 'skill'. Most men wouldn't dare to enter a property that was locked.
- Another is the mindset that it is OK to steal things.
- The relevant phone pings make four of the criteria and .....
- in depth knowledge of the place and surrounding area, make five
SY probably have other pointers.
Certain friends, something like that? Dunno what, but probably other clues..
Are you seriously suggesting that SY should NOT investigate such a man?
He may be totally innocent of any involvement with Madeleine, but he should surely be looked at thoroughly
Just why should SY ignore this man especially as he is used to entering properties illegally..... and had phone pings that tied up.
Please give sound reasons for not investigating him..
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I am sorry Admin, but if someone is a burglar they are a criminal and should be treated as such by Police.
- In an abduction 'getting in' quietly is one of the skills used.
- Having the courage / audacity to do so is another 'skill'. Most men wouldn't dare to enter a property that was locked.
- Another is the mindset that it is OK to steal things.
- The relevant phone pings make four of the criteria and .....
- in depth knowledge of the place and surrounding area, make five
SY probably have other pointers.
Certain friends, something like that? Dunno what, but probably other clues..
Are you seriously suggesting that SY should NOT investigate such a man?
He may be totally innocent of any involvement with Madeleine, but he should surely be looked at thoroughly
Just why should SY ignore this man especially as he is used to entering properties illegally..... and had phone pings that tied up.
Please give sound reasons for not investigating him..
Investigate certainly but professionally and not in the gutter press. Are you seriously suggesting that all four arguidos are guilty of child abduction?
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It's too bad that residents of Praia da Luz with minor misdemeanors to their name couldn't make phonecalls on 3/4 May 2007 without now seven years later being considered as child abductors. Have investigators so little to go on that they now resolve to destroy other lives with this nonsense in order to justify their own existence? The question must be asked as to why has this all been made public?
Could you elucidate which minor misdemeanors you are referring to plz?
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It's too bad that residents of Praia da Luz with minor misdemeanors to their name couldn't make phonecalls on 3/4 May 2007 without now seven years later being considered as child abductors. Have investigators so little to go on that they now resolve to destroy other lives with this nonsense in order to justify their own existence? The question must be asked as to why has this all been made public?
This file has, 428 pages in total, and has no hand-written page numbers. It consists of a detailed analysis/report of the mobile locations of the Tapas 9 from 2007.04.28 through 2007.07.27.
It also includes detailed maps of call locations.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/OUSTROS_APENSOS_13_TEL.htm
If the same diligences and prolonged surveillances which were carried out on the locations and pings of the McCann party had been carried out on those individuals with a known connection to the holiday complex as well as being known petty criminals Madeleine’s case could well have had a different outcome.
The apparently single minded concentration on Madeleine’s parents and friends is extraordinary. They should not have been the only line of inquiry; but they were, as confirmed in Dr Amaral's book.
Until Heri indicated this person should be interviewed none of the many discussions on the internet had looked beyond the Drs McCann and their group of friends.
This is excusable for civilians without access to all the facts and no locus other than that of armchair detectives; imo it is inexcusable for an official police investigation and is an illustration of how badly Madeleine McCann was let down.
This was an obvious line of inquiry back in 2007 ... one can't fail to be appalled that it didn't happen till 2014.
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It is thought Mrs Fenn's intruder let himself in with a key:
In the weeks before Madeleine disappeared Mrs Fenn scared off an intruder who had apparently let himself into her apartment with a key.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html
Not that old chestnut again.
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Not that old chestnut again.
The offences took place in 2007 ... so they are naturally - old - chestnut or not has yet to be decided.
Burglars are sometimes not just after property and quite often there is a pattern of deliberate escalation into much more serious criminal activity involving crimes against the person.
Someone with the temerity to invade your home should never be presumed a shrinking violet; imo he/she is a hardened criminal and Mrs Fenn's uninvited experience must have been extremely distressing for her.
I found the following interesting, it is a PDF and I don’t know how to link directly to it, but just googling the details will get you there - AN EXPLORATION OF BURGLARIES COMMITTED BY SEXUAL OFFENDERS: A Thesis Presented to the Faculty of the Department of Justice Studies San Jose University: Amelie Pedneault 2010
I downloaded it as a PDF and read it some time ago but, as said, can’t link it, however it will be seen here that the girl done good - http://scholarworks.sjsu.edu/etd_theses/3824/
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This person has "furto" ("theft") handwritten next to his name in a PJ list.
Why pick on him? There are similar handwritten notes next to the names of various other people.
These are presumably the results of checks made in portuguese police records for previous convictions etc.
A**** furto (theft)
C**** preso sem carta condução (driving without licence)
C*** furto (theft)
D***** tráfico droga (drug trafficking)
J**** furto (theft) - On Topic - this is the person discussed - see thread title - no indication was ever in 5A.
L*** tráfico (trafficking? or traffic offense?) - was in 5A a few days before.
M***** tráfico (trafficking? or traffic offense?)
V**** burla, falsificação, tráfico (fraud, forgery, trafficking? or traffic offense?) - went to 5A soon after alarm.
Source: Vol 4 pages 850-851
(Post edited to add translations etc)
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This person has "furto" ("theft") handwritten next to his name in a PJ list.
Why pick on him? There are similar handwritten notes next to the names of various other people.
These are presumably the results of checks made in portuguese police records for previous convictions etc.
A**** furto
C**** preso sem carta condução
C*** furto
D***** tráfico droga
J**** furto
L*** tráfico
M***** tráfico
V**** burla, falsificação, tráfico
SY are have no idea where to go next with this. Its ludicrous that someone on the 3rd May is being linked to an abduction of a child. How many other people use their phones on the 3rd May in PDL, and how often did this guy use his phone anyway. Now IF he never used his phone then suddenly did maybe it can be deemed a bit odd but....
Now i have read that SY are now looking at the theory that a childless couple took her, I mean really? I have given up on the case to be honest. As they are just prancing around evidence but not actually looking in the right place, OR refuse to do so, for what reason I have no idea. Also they are quick to bring in the dogs themselves yet they refuse to believe the original dogs findings....
Its ludicrous grasping at fairys.
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SY are have no idea where to go next with this. Its ludicrous that someone on the 3rd May is being linked to an abduction of a child. How many other people use their phones on the 3rd May in PDL, and how often did this guy use his phone anyway. Now IF he never used his phone then suddenly did maybe it can be deemed a bit odd but....
Now i have read that SY are now looking at the theory that a childless couple took her, I mean really? I have given up on the case to be honest. As they are just prancing around evidence but not actually looking in the right place, OR refuse to do so, for what reason I have no idea. Also they are quick to bring in the dogs themselves yet they refuse to believe the original dogs findings....
Its ludicrous grasping at fairys.
They no doubt have a list of ludicrous ideas that they are slowly working their way through.
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They no doubt have a list of ludicrous ideas that they are slowly working their way through.
Abduction the most ludicrous, death & concealment the most likely.
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There are other details, don’t know if you have been writing about. For example Bernardino, the another driver, was questioned by Polícia Judiciária, because he made a phone call on May 3, 2007, from Praia da Luz, when he lived in Lagos and he must be not at work at the time (see Vol II Pages 372-373 and Vol XV Pages 4114-4115) .
Bernardino explained later to the Express: “On that night I was asked to do some driving because the man who was supposed to do the driving did not arrive at work. I remember ringing my wife and telling her I would be late home that night.” (See http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case)).
The man who did not go to work was Jose Carlos (see Vol III Pages 679-680). There is no mention of his absence in the PJ files, neither Jose Carlos mentioned it nor any Ocean Club manager mentioned it.
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There are other details, don’t know if you have been writing about. For example Bernardino, the another driver, was questioned by Polícia Judiciária, because he made a phone call on May 3, 2007, from Praia da Luz, when he lived in Lagos and he must be not at work at the time (see Vol II Pages 372-373 and Vol XV Pages 4114-4115) .
Bernardino explained later to the Express: “On that night I was asked to do some driving because the man who was supposed to do the driving did not arrive at work. I remember ringing my wife and telling her I would be late home that night.” (See http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case)).
The man who did not go to work was Jose Carlos (see Vol III Pages 679-680). There is no mention of his absence in the PJ files, neither Jose Carlos mentioned it nor any Ocean Club manager mentioned it.
8@??)(
Very well spotted Heri.
So we have another fact there to add to the list I suggested a couple of pages back.
This list was formed to show SY's possible reasons for wanting to seriously interview certain Arguidos
If someone is a burglar they are a criminal and should be treated as such by Police.
- In an abduction 'getting in' quietly is one of the skills used.
- Having the courage / audacity to do so is another 'skill'. Most men wouldn't dare to enter a property that was locked.
- Another is the mindset that it is OK to steal things.
- The relevant phone pings make four of the criteria and .....
- in depth knowledge of the place and surrounding area, make five
And, of course, we dont know, but maybe certain of the Arguido men may look like the images that we have been provided of Smithman. Maybe Fernandes himself does? We just dont know.
SY probably have other pointers.
Certain friends, something like that? Dunno what, but probably other clues..
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8@??)(
Very well spotted Heri.
So we have another fact there to add to the list I suggested a couple of pages back
If someone is a burglar they are a criminal and should be treated as such by Police.
- In an abduction 'getting in' quietly is one of the skills used.
- Having the courage / audacity to do so is another 'skill'. Most men wouldn't dare to enter a property that was locked.
- Another is the mindset that it is OK to steal things.
- The relevant phone pings make four of the criteria and .....
- in depth knowledge of the place and surrounding area, make five
And, of course, we dont know, but maybe certain of the Arguido men may look like the images that we have been provided of Smithman. Maybe Fernandes himself does? We just dont know.
SY probably have other pointers.
Certain friends, something like that? Dunno what, but probably other clues..
Yup, we know how being one of the usual suspects makes for good justice.
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Yup, we know how being one of the usual suspects makes for good justice.
All Heri and I have done is list reasons why SY might want to seriously interview certain arguidos. I started the list in response to peeps on here saying that SY should NOT be seriously looked at him / them. They were clearly wrong cos a number of possible pointers, but these pointers alone prove NOTHING.
Absolutely no proof of anything that we know of anyhow. If they are to find the abductor they must interview peeps with such possible pointers, even if to eliminate them
I feel sure you would agree with that Slarti ?
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There are other details, don’t know if you have been writing about. For example Bernardino, the another driver, was questioned by Polícia Judiciária, because he made a phone call on My 3, 2007, from Praia da Luz, when he lived in Lagos and he must be not at work at the time (see Vol II Pages 372-373 and Vol XV Pages 4114-4115) .
Bernardino explained later to the Express: “On that night I was asked to do some driving because the man who was supposed to do the driving did not arrive at work. I remember ringing my wife and telling her I would be late home that night.” (See http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case)).
The man who did not go to work was Jose Carlos (see Vol III Pages 679-680). There is no mention of his absence in the PJ files, neither Jose Carlos mentioned it nor any Ocean Club manager mentioned it.
Thanks Heri.
Any idea which PT paper said this:
A Portuguese newspaper reported last week that police were particularly interested in a driver at the Ocean Club who dropped guests at the apartments after they arrived from Faro airport.
The man said: “On that night I was asked to do some driving because the man who was supposed to do the driving did not arrive at work. I remember ringing my wife and telling her I would be late home that night.”
It may or may not be true, but would certainly seem to be a loose end to be checked out.
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Thanks Heri.
Any idea which PT paper said this:
A Portuguese newspaper reported last week that police were particularly interested in a driver at the Ocean Club who dropped guests at the apartments after they arrived from Faro airport.
The man said: “On that night I was asked to do some driving because the man who was supposed to do the driving did not arrive at work. I remember ringing my wife and telling her I would be late home that night.”
It may or may not be true, but would certainly seem to be a loose end to be checked out.
Knowing how thorough SY is reputed to be in their investigations, is there any reason to imagine that this had not been done?
If I remember rightly, there were a number of other Portuguese nationals interviewed at the same time as the 4 arguidos .
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Knowing how thorough SY is reputed to be in their investigations, is there any reason to imagine that this had not been done?
If I remember rightly, there were a number of other Portuguese nationals interviewed at the same time as the 4 arguidos .
Why would national newspapers be interviewed? Is that normal police activity?
I dont understand. Can you help Jassi?
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Knowing how thorough SY is reputed to be in their investigations, is there any reason to imagine that this had not been done?
If I remember rightly, there were a number of other Portuguese nationals interviewed at the same time as the 4 arguidos .
I don't know how SY could have checked this out without going through the ILOR route, unless the PJ also wanted to check it out.
The tabloids seem to have been mainly interested in who was going to be named as arguidos, quite possibly as the term has sensationalistic connotations.
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I don't know how SY could have checked this out without going through the ILOR route, unless the PJ also wanted to check it out.
The tabloids seem to have been mainly interested in who was going to be named as arguidos, quite possibly as the term has sensationalistic connotations.
Indeed. We really have no idea what questions may have been asked of the other people questioned that week.
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I don't know how SY could have checked this out without going through the ILOR route, unless the PJ also wanted to check it out.
The tabloids seem to have been mainly interested in who was going to be named as arguidos, quite possibly as the term has sensationalistic connotations.
If the objective is to find out what happened to Madeleine and apprehend those responsible it is a shame that more effort hasn't been made to cut through the attendant red tape which surrounds international working.
IMO it is a waste of time and resources to have inquiries running in parallel even if relations between the two forces are excellent. The obvious thing to do is to set up a Joint Investigation Team (JIT) which would be a more efficient use of time by cutting the necessity of sending of letters for everything.
One can imagine it sometimes cuts the flow of an investigation as for example when the Met had to wait to see if their request to search the homes of suspects and have DNA samples taken was allowed.
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If the objective is to find out what happened to Madeleine and apprehend those responsible it is a shame that more effort hasn't been made to cut through the attendant red tape which surrounds international working.
IMO it is a waste of time and resources to have inquiries running in parallel even if relations between the two forces are excellent. The obvious thing to do is to set up a Joint Investigation Team (JIT) which would be a more efficient use of time by cutting the necessity of sending of letters for everything.
One can imagine it sometimes cuts the flow of an investigation as for example when the Met had to wait to see if their request to search the homes of suspects and have DNA samples taken was allowed.
I know. From the outside, it seems totally mystifying that a JIT wasn't established. However, sifting through some Europol documents a few years ago (not necessarily JIT-related), I got the impression that there were all kinds of background issues involved in trying to promote and facilitate police cooperation between European countries.
It may still be quite rare in practice and PT might require a specific legal provision to enable one to be set up (if one exists, I haven't come across it).
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since this guy was paging with the mobile to Ricca. whenever someone from the group was ready to check the children I assume he was at tapas or nearby for warning where he had a clear view of the group and the street.My theory someone lifted Maddy from the bed and the other was waiting on the window to take her .
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since this guy was paging with the mobile to Ricca. whenever someone from the group was ready to check the children I assume he was at tapas or nearby for warning where he had a clear view of the group and the street.My theory someone lifted Maddy from the bed and the other was waiting on the window to take her .
Welcome bros.
Your theory is a bit like mine, but I dont think the window was used to pass Madeleine thru. Amaral stated that no-one went thru that window, no scuff marks, fibres etc.
I think it was opened possibly for one of these reasons:
1) An instant escape route if trapped
2) A means of giving moral support to the person that lifted Madeleine and to communicate
3) Seems drugs were administerd, or something done to render Madeleine unconscious, so maybe he passed the necessary through
4) To waft away the scent of any drugs (chloroform?)
5) To give a little natural light to the room. THere had been a full moon the night before, but I dont think the moon had risen enough at that time to give any illumination to the scene.. I doubt much light would have come from the street lamps, because the foliage of the trees was very dense
6) To give a false impression that the window was used, because if everyone knew the door had been used then people with some attachment to OC would be scrutinised. I think someone with links to OC was involved
7) To give the impression that Madeleine had wakened and wandered
8) To see if anyone was coming via the front, so the lifter could scarper.
Guess there are loads more reasons that I have never thought of ... so that list is just for starters.
I think the front door was used, in and out, probably using a key.
You are more up to date than me, cos I doubted that mobiles were used, but SY seem interested in them so seems quite likely I was wrong on that. I based my previous thoughts on the fact that mobiles can be identified, but maybe the PJ didn't go into the investigative depth that SY seem to have done.
If you are interested there is a thread about my theory, called Sadie's' Theory. It has been a good deal truncated and altered, but much of it is still intact
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1327.0
Have you thought of putting up an alternative theory ?
Sherlock did, bless her and Heriberto did too. Pathfinder keeps having a go and Pegasus too. Maybe others? Would be good to have a variety
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my theory is that the person lifting Madeleine from bed and hand exchanging her with the person from outside the window never went through window with the girl he went back from where he came couple of times in and out between 8;30 and 9;10.
Lets wait and see my conclusion is that Scotland and Porto police from what I read last couple of months are implementing great strategy its not only what we see and hear.
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my theory is that the person lifting Madeleine from bed and hand exchanging her with the person from outside the window never went through window with the girl he went back from where he came couple of times in and out between 8;30 and 9;10.
Lets wait and see my conclusion is that Scotland and Porto police from what I read last couple of months are implementing great strategy its not only what we see and hear.
Exactly ! 8@??)( It's not only what we see and hear.
The time for the perp to be worried is when SY and Porto Police go quiet. That is when they are going over things, analysing and progressing and forming their next strategic investigation.
It's coming along nicely, I think.
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1.I don't think parents had anything to do with kidnapping.
2. the kidnapping 'Porto crew' had bellow average iq and experience to carry such operation but they did it anyway they will be all caught .
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Former Ocean Club driver is suspect in McCann case
Jose Carlos da Silva, 28, used to drive guests to their apartments once they had been ferried to the Ocean Club headquarters in Luz from airports, writes James Murray.
He formerly lived in an apartment block overlooking the Ocean Club but has since moved to a nearby run-down flat...
...We understand that on May 3 2007 there was mobile phone communication between him and a second arguido, Ricardo Rodrigues, at about the time that Madeleine left a creche somewhere near 5.30pm.
It is further alleged that at about 9.25pm he also sent a text to the younger man.
Police say this was around the time that two of the McCann holiday group left the tapas bar at the Ocean Club to check on the children sleeping in apartments nearby.
Further communication on their mobiles came at 9.38pm, around the time that another member of the holiday group went to check on the children.
A short time later there was another mobile call between the men, around the time Kate McCann went to the apartment and discovered that Madeleine, then three, was missing.
text
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/488488/Former-Ocean-Club-driver-is-suspect-in-McCann-case
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Former Ocean Club driver is suspect in McCann case
Jose Carlos da Silva, 28, used to drive guests to their apartments once they had been ferried to the Ocean Club headquarters in Luz from airports, writes James Murray.
He formerly lived in an apartment block overlooking the Ocean Club but has since moved to a nearby run-down flat...
...We understand that on May 3 2007 there was mobile phone communication between him and a second arguido, Ricardo Rodrigues, at about the time that Madeleine left a creche somewhere near 5.30pm.
It is further alleged that at about 9.25pm he also sent a text to the younger man.
Police say this was around the time that two of the McCann holiday group left the tapas bar at the Ocean Club to check on the children sleeping in apartments nearby.
Further communication on their mobiles came at 9.38pm, around the time that another member of the holiday group went to check on the children.
A short time later there was another mobile call between the men, around the time Kate McCann went to the apartment and discovered that Madeleine, then three, was missing.
text
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/488488/Former-Ocean-Club-driver-is-suspect-in-McCann-case
We understand - it is further alleged.
The sort of definitive and reliable reporting we have come to expect from the Express.
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We understand - it is further alleged.
The sort of definitive and reliable reporting we have come to expect from the Express.
He worked for the OC, lived nearby, drove a bus & owned a phone (which he had the audacity to use on May 3rd 2007) the b.........
It was 'im wot dunnit.
I bet he smells like stale aftershave & wears a burgundy sweatshirt.
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He worked for the OC, lived nearby, drove a bus & owned a phone (which he had the audacity to use on May 3rd 2007) the b.........
It was 'im wot dunnit.
I bet he smells like stale aftershave & wears a burgundy sweatshirt.
Only when the gang gets together for a boys night out.
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Former Ocean Club driver is suspect in McCann case
Jose Carlos da Silva, 28, used to drive guests to their apartments once they had been ferried to the Ocean Club headquarters in Luz from airports, writes James Murray.
He formerly lived in an apartment block overlooking the Ocean Club but has since moved to a nearby run-down flat...
...We understand that on May 3 2007 there was mobile phone communication between him and a second arguido, Ricardo Rodrigues, at about the time that Madeleine left a creche somewhere near 5.30pm.
It is further alleged that at about 9.25pm he also sent a text to the younger man.
Police say this was around the time that two of the McCann holiday group left the tapas bar at the Ocean Club to check on the children sleeping in apartments nearby.
Further communication on their mobiles came at 9.38pm, around the time that another member of the holiday group went to check on the children.
A short time later there was another mobile call between the men, around the time Kate McCann went to the apartment and discovered that Madeleine, then three, was missing.
text
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/488488/Former-Ocean-Club-driver-is-suspect-in-McCann-case
A reasonable explanation of why it is essential to question the individuals named to check on the phone traffic around the time of Madeleine’s abduction.
Heriberto Janosch who is a respected member of this forum had already identified this traffic from the files over a year ago and informed the authorities.
Perhaps if less attention had been paid to the phone traffic of the Drs McCann and their friends and more to the available wider picture … we could have been at this point in the investigation seven years ago.
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Have they searched the shop yet?
The shop where a witness, who lived under a rock for 7 years, saw a man entering whilst carrying a child around the time of Madeleine's disappearance?
What about the guy, complete with child & phone, who made off across the cabbage patch, that same night.
Any news on him?
I reckon it was both of 'em wot dunnit.
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Have they searched the shop yet?
The shop where a witness, who lived under a rock for 7 years, saw a man entering whilst carrying a child around the time of Madeleine's disappearance?
What about the guy, complete with child & phone, who made off across the cabbage patch, that same night.
Any news on him?
I reckon it was both of 'em wot dunnit.
With so many dodgy characters about, it MUST have been one of them. It must be a problem for the police to decide which one to pin it on.
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Well my dears it is astonishing just how many folk who clearly did not have access to radio, television and newspapers have become important witnesses/suspects of late.
One would think even a cleft stick runner would have delivered the news to the village reader long before the expiry of 7 years.
Or for the benefit of Charon who believes I obfuscate(?) my partner would say "the press are having a laugh".
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With so many dodgy characters about, it MUST have been one of them. It must be a problem for the police to decide which one to pin it on.
Extraordinary the resistance to the legitimate questioning of witnesses and suspects in the case of a missing child. What’s the problem? Getting worried they might actually be about to uncover the answers to what happened to Madeleine?
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As long as it leads to the truth, I have absolutely no problem.
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Former Ocean Club driver is suspect in McCann case
Jose Carlos da Silva, 28, used to drive guests to their apartments once they had been ferried to the Ocean Club headquarters in Luz from airports, writes James Murray.
He formerly lived in an apartment block overlooking the Ocean Club but has since moved to a nearby run-down flat...
...We understand that on May 3 2007 there was mobile phone communication between him and a second arguido, Ricardo Rodrigues, at about the time that Madeleine left a creche somewhere near 5.30pm.
It is further alleged that at about 9.25pm he also sent a text to the younger man.
Police say this was around the time that two of the McCann holiday group left the tapas bar at the Ocean Club to check on the children sleeping in apartments nearby.
Further communication on their mobiles came at 9.38pm, around the time that another member of the holiday group went to check on the children.
A short time later there was another mobile call between the men, around the time Kate McCann went to the apartment and discovered that Madeleine, then three, was missing.
text
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/488488/Former-Ocean-Club-driver-is-suspect-in-McCann-case
Oh dear are NSY doing what they said they would not?
Or have the PJ been spinning tales to the Daily Express ?
Or is the whole story a bit of churnalism?
Or does the Madeleine case still sell lots of copy?
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Oh dear are NSY doing what they said they would not?
Or have the PJ been spinning tales to the Daily Express ?
Or is the whole story a bit of churnalism?
Or does the Madeleine case still sell lots of copy?
Or are you obfuscating a little?
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Or are you obfuscating a little?
Well possibly my dear. When all is said and done tis perfectly legal between consenting adults.
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Well possibly my dear. When all is said and done tis perfectly legal between consenting adults.
@)(++(*
Now you are making me laugh !
But I aint consenting !
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If there had been just cause to prosecute the Drs McCann and or their friends or any one of their friends … we can be rest assured it would have been done and done zealously. I fail to see why they cannot understand that there was no evidence to do that.
For example, the bus driver has a pool of support which does not even want him to be questioned ... this must be unique to this investigation.
I will stand corrected if anyone can show me a comparable instance of such resistance to the legitimate questioning of a suspect in a crime.
Should Mr Silva be questioned and should there be insufficient evidence to take him to prosecution, who in their right mind thinks it would be right and proper to start organising internet blogs and social media campaigns ‘seeking the truth’, handing out leaflets pointing out 'reasons' for his guilt in his neighbourhood … oh and maybe write the odd book claiming his guilt?
If it is beyond the pale to do this in one instance … why is it not similarly recognised to be outside agreed standards of decency in the other? Imo it is sheer hypocrisy.
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If there had been just cause to prosecute the Drs McCann and or their friends or any one of their friends … we can be rest assured it would have been done and done zealously. I fail to see why they cannot understand that there was no evidence to do that.
For example, the bus driver has a pool of support which does not even want him to be questioned ... this must be unique to this investigation.
I will stand corrected if anyone can show me a comparable instance of such resistance to the legitimate questioning of a suspect in a crime.
Should Mr Silva be questioned and should there be insufficient evidence to take him to prosecution, who in their right mind thinks it would be right and proper to start organising internet blogs and social media campaigns ‘seeking the truth’, handing out leaflets pointing out 'reasons' for his guilt in his neighbourhood … oh and maybe write the odd book claiming his guilt?
If it is beyond the pale to do this in one instance … why is it not similarly recognised to be outside agreed standards of decency in the other? Imo it is sheer hypocrisy.
So how do you account for the fact that some of these new "suspects" have already been interviewed so if there had been any cause to prosecute it would have already been done.
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Suspects are not always arrested after a day of questioning, strange but true!
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So how do you account for the fact that some of these new "suspects" have already been interviewed so if there had been any cause to prosecute it would have already been done.
... and not once, but twice.
I know that two of the arguidos were questioned as witnesses by the original investigation.
Mr Silva's statement only being noteworthy because it seemed to corroborate other statements; Mr Malinka seems to have been investigated more vigorously as he is on record as claiming he was handled quite roughly.
As far as the present investigation goes, I am sure all will be revealed in the fullness of time ... but you have studiously ignored giving a reason why ... should a prosecution of these arguidos never take place and their arguido status lifted ... it would be beyond the pale to institute campaigns against them similar to those suffered by the Drs McCann over 7 years.
Wonder why you prefer not to think about that comparison.
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MY opinion is Praia kidnapping crew will provide the first witness - someone will voluntarily step up and get witness protection status to testify against the others he will sell them fast. Who will be the first1 to ask for witness status to testify, hunting season will soon open. I have my favorite pick.
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MY opinion is Praia kidnapping crew will provide the first witness - someone will voluntarily step up and get witness protection status to testify against the others he will sell them fast. Who will be the first1 to ask for witness status to testify, hunting season will soon open. I have my favorite pick.
I hope you are right.
But something tells me that there is something big, very powerful and threatening behind this abduction.
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I have often wondered if some people are scared of coming forward for some reason.
- There is a potential "omerta" issue and I'm not sure that witness protection would cover it (if the concept exists in PT), particularly in a small area where everyone knows everyone else.
- The person (s) who may hold a vital clue might have been in an illegal situtation at the time (or could be worried about being investigated for one that may have happened before or after). I don't know if the concept of amnesty exists in PT, either.
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I have often wondered if some people are scared of coming forward for some reason.
- There is a potential "omerta" issue and I'm not sure that witness protection would cover it (if the concept exists in PT), particularly in a small area where everyone knows everyone else.
- The person (s) who may hold a vital clue might have been in an illegal situtation at the time (or could be worried about being investigated for one that may have happened before or after). I don't know if the concept of amnesty exists in PT, either. It is for public prosecutor or investigative judge which ever is in the Portuguese system.
Oh ok I should clarify. Witness protection comes with immunity for being sentence for crime committed or lesser sentence. Usually is only 1 person awarded I am just waiting from "Praia kidnapping crew" who will use this opportunity ti testify against fellow kidnappers. It is lottery ticket I bet there lawyers have already whisper as option or police have mentioned during separate interviews. It is rule of "First come first served".
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Has anyone seen a photograph of this driver?
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Oh ok I should clarify. Witness protection comes with immunity for being sentence for crime committed or lesser sentence. Usually is only 1 person awarded I am just waiting from "Praia kidnapping crew" who will use this opportunity ti testify against fellow kidnappers. It is lottery ticket I bet there lawyers have already whisper as option or police have mentioned during separate interviews. It is rule of "First come first served".
In my opinion you are misguided if you believe witness protection & immunity from prosecution will tempt one of the kidnappers. No-one spoke out when there was a £1m reward on offer.
There have already been 2 mysterious deaths that I am aware of connected to this case and I am sure that anyone involved would be very concerned for the safety of their own family members.
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In my opinion you are misguided if you believe witness protection & immunity from prosecution will tempt one of the kidnappers. No-one spoke out when there was a £1m reward on offer.
There have already been 2 mysterious deaths that I am aware of connected to this case and I am sure that anyone involved would be very concerned for the safety of their own family members.
Two mysterious deaths ? Really ?
Perhaps no one has spoke out because no one but the McCanns and their friends know anything.
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Back on topic, I will try to find some photos of the building, where this driver learnt of the disappearance from two male searchers below.
... where this driver SAID he learnt ...
Maybe you would like to see these pics of Luztur building.
(Photos taken by Heriberto Janosch González)
Note the inside galleries with free access from the street ...
(http://s16.postimg.org/4dqwf5o2t/Apart_151_Small.jpg)
(http://s9.postimg.org/nwq4ccsf3/Apart_152_Small.jpg)
(http://s27.postimg.org/968h29jw3/Apart_154_Small.jpg)
(http://s27.postimg.org/6qb925r77/Apart_155_Small.jpg)
(http://s29.postimg.org/i6imqjsmv/Apart_156_Small.jpg)
(http://s29.postimg.org/grm3yxxvb/Apart_157_Small.jpg)
(http://s27.postimg.org/xq2jdedir/Apart_158_Small.jpg)
(http://s17.postimg.org/vru33co0f/Apart_162_Small.jpg)
(http://s30.postimg.org/6xyub5zzl/Apart_168_Small.jpg)
(http://s4.postimg.org/hkryzw6rh/Apart_169_Small.jpg)
(http://s10.postimg.org/4qz3vseop/Apart_170_Small.jpg)
(http://s17.postimg.org/miwi6z4i7/Apart_173_Small.jpg)
(http://s14.postimg.org/b39kn4i4x/Apart_174_Small.jpg)
(http://s23.postimg.org/6ftg8f0kb/Apart_175_Small.jpg)
(http://s30.postimg.org/6yd2zrl2p/Apart_176_Small.jpg)
(http://s28.postimg.org/nk8opws7x/Apart_177_Small.jpg)
(http://s27.postimg.org/lf5hmhvjn/Apart_178_Small.jpg)
(http://s14.postimg.org/b2487g5ox/Apart_181_Small.jpg)
(http://s13.postimg.org/aqas7au13/Apart_182_Small.jpg)
(http://s23.postimg.org/al8y82nq3/Imagem3_202_Small.jpg)
(http://s27.postimg.org/9tml6oc8j/Imagem3_203_Small.jpg)
(http://s22.postimg.org/ooahxzqht/Imagem3_204_Small.jpg)
(http://s27.postimg.org/tbzm5l2pf/Imagem3_205_Small.jpg)
(http://s11.postimg.org/5rxlqt9kz/Imagem3_207_Small.jpg)
(http://s14.postimg.org/jgjuvj6q9/Imagem3_209_Small.jpg)
(http://s22.postimg.org/rm7groy5d/Imagem3_214_Small.jpg)
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We can criticise PJ police always but they have done great job in documenting the collecting the data they need and they dont need. They had the snatcher in front of their nose they just needed average lead detective not Amaral. This just my opinion. Sadie txn for some inputs.
THIS CASE IS SOLVED with high probability people will go to jail the only question for how long. If they find Maddie and she is ok they can avoid lifetime sentence. Otherwise I hope someone makes there lifetime sentence entertaining because they deserved.
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We can criticise PJ police always but they have done great job in documenting the collecting the data they need and they dont need. They had the snatcher in front of their nose they just needed average lead detective not Amaral. This just my opinion. Sadie txn for some inputs.
THIS CASE IS SOLVED with high probability people will go to jail the only question for how long. If they find Maddie and she is ok they can avoid lifetime sentence. Otherwise I hope someone makes there lifetime sentence entertaining because they deserved.
I agree, bros, I think some PJ officers did a lot of outstanding work back in 2007 ... they most certainly were not responsible for collating the information they gathered or the direction the investigation took; that was entirely the responsibility of those in charge.
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Heri your photos are magnificent. Thank you for sharing them with us.
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Yes :)
Gadfly, you say you have seen a photograph of this driver.
Does he look anything like any of ther Efits please ?
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Has anyone seen a photograph of this driver?
There is one or two press photos of arriving the PJ station.
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There is one or two press photos of arriving the PJ station.
He lives in PDL and made phone calls to locals? and he is guilty? does he look like any of the efits at all? the begger/the bogus charity worker/ the gypsy king/arab child seeking snatcher?
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He lives in PDL and made phone calls to locals? and he is guilty? does he look like any of the efits at all? the begger/the bogus charity worker/ the gypsy king/arab child seeking snatcher?
With all this sudden "activity" do you think something is about to happen or it just some passing weather phenomenon having and adverse effect on things like brains?
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IIRC some see a general resemblance to one of the efits, but that doesn't mean the efit is him.
BTW I agree with you that this is an innocent man.
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With all this sudden "activity" do you think something is about to happen or it just some passing weather phenomenon having and adverse effect on things like brains?
Oh most definitely, the position of the moon would have to be re aligned as well...just to be sure no one is barking at it from the wrong angle...
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Right image here
(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dailystar020714header.jpg)
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(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mail010714a.jpg)
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(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mail030714a.jpg)
Jose Carlos da Silva (28) used to drive Ocean Club guests to their apartments after arriving from Faro Airport.
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I reckon she's been abducted.
Quite possibly to the ' Land of the Hotrod's '.
Quite painful it has been said.
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(http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mail030714a.jpg)
Jose Carlos da Silva (28) used to drive Ocean Club guests to their apartments after being ferried from Faro Airport.
Shame he doesn't have Carter Ruck, he would be having a field day....
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Last year, I contributed to this forum under the name ‘gadfly.’
First, I would like to apologise to S. M, a person of interest in this case. I contributed to a thread that compiled evidence on this individual from the released PJ files. I now believe that S.M. played no serious role in this case. Equally, I would also like to apologise to JCDS who I also highlighted on this forum. I also now believe that this individual had no substantive role in this case. I’d also like to reaffirm that this speculation — done with such little regard for the privacy of the said individuals - was wrong.
Second, after studying the case in greater detail, I have reached some firm conclusions. First, my initial belief that intelligent, decent people are to be believed, especially in cases of such gravity, has been shaken. I’ve come to a conclusion — after thoroughly studying the evidence of the case and the evolution of public statements made in relation to it — that good people will rationalise away completely unacceptable behaviour if their reputation, finances and family life are in peril.
And further to this, I’ve been shocked as a deep sense of reality has sunk in. Some people are willing to promote a lie with such strategic effectiveness, and to such a shocking extent, that many good people across the country suspend their own logic and critical faculties when reaching initial judgements on the case. Indeed, politicians and journalists alike have been taken in along the way — including Prime Ministers and many national newspaper editors. Even though the said people that I refer to have attempted to make amends by doing many good deeds since the terrible news of the mid-2000s, which are again partly an attempt to rationalise away the long-standing error in judgement back then, the sheer scale of public money spent on this case alongside the death of a woman — however misguided her online activities were — must ensure that the case is brought to a serious and just end.
On that note, I’d like to also apologise to the lead detective who initially oversaw the case. Again, I wrote some strong stuff about him — mainly because I was shocked that someone would profit from the death of a young girl (that is indeed my belief). But on the big calls, I now believe he was right. While the PJ never doubted their initial judgements, I also believe that Scotland Yard are now also of this view — a view that unfortunately is unavoidable when the evidence is critically studied.
On these forums, I was sceptical of both sides of the argument but particularly found myself repelled by the so called ‘anti’ crowd. While I believe that some of the charges levied online against the parents are borderline insane — and their methods are generally repetitive, boring and obsessive — I do now feel that the evidence even included in the initial PJ files, not to mention the new investigation, points in a very clear direction.
The key pieces of evidence I believe are now key are:
The Smith sighting.
The EVRD alerts.
Inconsistencies in the statements made in public by past arguidos — which if studied alongside other developments in the case can actually be analysed to produce a worrying conclusion, with a sinking feeling in the gut.
The Renault evidence.
DNA evidence from the holiday apartment.
Unfortunately, I now cannot get past this. I believe the coming months may well create a deep sense of shock as the case nears its conclusion. A sad but understandable tale.
A final thing is that however shocked we all may well be in the end, it is never an excuse to resort to conspiracy theories, online abuse, or the vilification of people who acted in a rational manner (at least in terms of their own lives).
Thanks, Gadfly.
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Quite possibly to the ' Land of the Hotrod's '.
Quite painful it has been said.
Who is this Hotrod you refer to?
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So what is definitively known about this arguido then?
1) Questioned on the basis of phone data.
2) On his balcony on the night, watching the search unfold -- but didn't help.
3) Lives close by to the Ocean Club.
4) Knows the Ocean Club intimately - worked there at the time.
5) Single, own apartment.
6) Convicted of burglary in the past.
7) Unskilled worker, low socio-economic status.
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Witness Statement
Jose Carlos Fernandes da Silva
Date: 2007-05-08
Occupation: Driver
Place of Work: OC
Comes to the process as a witness.
He has worked as a driver at the OC since the 26th March of this year. His functions consist of driving the tourists from the reception to the apartments where they are staying. His working hours are from 11.00 to 16.00, except for Thursdays and Saturdays which are the days guests arrive and leave and when he starts and finishes work much earlier and later. He knows the resort well as he circulates throughout the whole resort.
When asked whether he knows about the disappearance he says that he heard about it on the day of the disappearance at about 23.00 because he was on his balcony and two men passed by and asked him whether he had seen a small girl who had gone missing from a restaurant. On the following day when he arrived at work he was told all the details. When asked, he replies that he does not think he saw or spoke to the girl or her family before the disappearance. He only knew who they were from the news.
Nobody made any comments to him about the guests or about children in the preceding days.
He did not see anyone suspicious or any unusual vehicles.
No more is said.
Reads, ratifies, signs.
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Oh this takes on a new thinking for me... his pictures are similar to Gerry in some instances.
Hmmmm
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Just another innocent person being dragged through the press as being involved or potentially involved, Ive lost count how many that is now, pretty disgraceful at best
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Just another innocent person being dragged through the press as being involved or potentially involved, Ive lost count how many that is now, pretty disgraceful at best
I agree about people being tried by media, but I believe his where abouts and behaviour, along with others, warrents him being questioned at least.
We need motive, means and opportunity.
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Just another innocent person being dragged through the press as being involved or potentially involved, Ive lost count how many that is now, pretty disgraceful at best
According to the media, he is still an arguido. However, I understand that a person can only remain an arguido for a period of 8 months before the status must be altered. That period must be due to expire any day now.
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According to the media, he is still an arguido. However, I understand that a person can only remain an arguido for a period of 8 months before the status must be altered. That period must be due to expire any day now.
It can be extended.
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But presumably only if there is good reason.
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But presumably only if there is good reason.
The change in the law which came into force days after the McCanns were made arguidos means that people can only become such if there is supporting evidence.
If there has been no resolution to that situation in the intervening period I would imagine there would be little resistance by the judiciary to an extension.
Do we even know who made them arguidos in the first place ... or might there be the possibility their lawyers advised them to request it?
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I agree about people being tried by media, but I believe his where abouts and behaviour, along with others, warrents him being questioned at least.
We need motive, means and opportunity.
We do indeed, none of those "indicators" singly or collectively in gadfly's post prove or suggest motive...J Wilkins didnt help in the search, many used their phones that night, many lived and worked in PDL, where is the actual suspicion about this chap?
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According to the media, he is still an arguido. However, I understand that a person can only remain an arguido for a period of 8 months before the status must be altered. That period must be due to expire any day now.
Murat and the Mccanns were arguidos, it doesn't automatic!ly mean they are guilty, just that police are hedging their bets
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The change in the law which came into force days after the McCanns were made arguidos means that people can only become such if there is supporting evidence.
If there has been no resolution to that situation in the intervening period I would imagine there would be little resistance by the judiciary to an extension.
Do we even know who made them arguidos in the first place ... or might there be the possibility their lawyers advised them to request it?
IMO it is usual for an investigating force to have to prove good reason to extend questioning or status.
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I'm not quite sure what the situation is in this instance.
My understanding is that there is a range of timeframes for a Portuguese investigation depending on a number of factors, including the complexity of the investigation, the type of crime, whether arguidos are held on remand or under house arrest, whether there are arguidos or specified suspects at all...
A new provision has been added to cover the eventuality of letters of request (but it doesn't specify whether that just concerns PT waiting for results from a foreign jurisdiction for one of their own investigations). The timeframe is suspended for up to half of the normal one to allow for it.
However, unless I'm mistaken, the current arguidos were given that status as part of the Met's investigation, not the PT one, and I haven't found a specific legal provision for that scenario.
If reports are true that one of the arguidos no longer is one, then that makes me think that usual rules don't apply: an arguido in a PT investigation retains that status until there is a judicial decision. If that's the case, then the arguido status may have been lifted if the Met had eliminated that person from their enquiries - even though that doesn't appear to be a concept in PT law.
A further complication is that the Met apparently submitted a letter of request concerning various DNA issues, which is separate from the ones concerning interviews. If the DNA request is linked to any of the arguidos, then the Met presumably won't eliminate them until that request has been processed and analysed.
The Articles I'm looking at are 276 and 215:
http://www.homepagejuridica.net/attachments/article/718/C%C3%B3digo%20de%20Processo%20Penal%20agosto%202014.pdf
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Im not sure either, but was there a relevant point you were trying to make?
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Im not sure either, but was there a relevant point you were trying to make?
The discussion was how long this chap (and others) could remain arguidos...
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Again old news, but it gives us an idea of the Arquido status time..................
Express http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/565536 ... e-suspects
By James Murray PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Mar 22, 2015
Madeleine police face April deadline over questioning Portuguese suspects
TIME is running out for Scotland Yard to question three Portuguese suspects in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The trio were given “arguido” or suspect status in July last year which allowed Portuguese detectives to question them intensively about their movements around the time that Madeleine vanished in May 2007.
Details of those interviews have now been analysed by Scotland Yard officers.
Under Portuguese law the arguido status lasts for only eight months but can be extended, although that is not common.
If no formal accusations can be made, investigations are shelved, which automatically removes the arguido status.
With an April deadline approaching, the Yard is carefully considering its next move. Senior Portuguese police officers recently met British officials in Portugal for an update on what the Yard team seeks to do and how long it will take.
If no formal accusations can be made, investigations are shelved
Although there are no plans to drop the four-year £10million Operation Grange investigation, led by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, the meeting focused on what new information has come to light and what more needs to be done.
It is understood that part of the discussion was about DNA samples taken from the Ocean Club holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve where Madeleine was staying with her family.
The trio waiting to have their arguido status lifted are former Ocean Club driver Jose Carlos da Silva, jobless schizophrenic Paulo Jorge Ribeiro and Ricardo Jorge, who was just 16 at the time Madeleine vanished.
They have all strenuously denied knowing anything about her disappearance.
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Again old news, but it gives us an idea of the Arquido status time..................
Express http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/565536 ... e-suspects
By James Murray PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Mar 22, 2015
Madeleine police face April deadline over questioning Portuguese suspects
TIME is running out for Scotland Yard to question three Portuguese suspects in connection with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The trio were given “arguido” or suspect status in July last year which allowed Portuguese detectives to question them intensively about their movements around the time that Madeleine vanished in May 2007.
Details of those interviews have now been analysed by Scotland Yard officers.
Under Portuguese law the arguido status lasts for only eight months but can be extended, although that is not common.
If no formal accusations can be made, investigations are shelved, which automatically removes the arguido status.
With an April deadline approaching, the Yard is carefully considering its next move. Senior Portuguese police officers recently met British officials in Portugal for an update on what the Yard team seeks to do and how long it will take.
If no formal accusations can be made, investigations are shelved
Although there are no plans to drop the four-year £10million Operation Grange investigation, led by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, the meeting focused on what new information has come to light and what more needs to be done.
It is understood that part of the discussion was about DNA samples taken from the Ocean Club holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve where Madeleine was staying with her family.
The trio waiting to have their arguido status lifted are former Ocean Club driver Jose Carlos da Silva, jobless schizophrenic Paulo Jorge Ribeiro and Ricardo Jorge, who was just 16 at the time Madeleine vanished.
They have all strenuously denied knowing anything about her disappearance.
If you look at the laws (link in my post above), the arguido status time is more complicated than that.
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The discussion was how long this chap (and others) could remain arguidos...
But, the point is, does it matter? If police cannot get anything in months, then another few months probably won't make much difference.
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If you look at the laws (link in my post above), the arguido status time is more complicated than that.
Artigo 215
1 - Pre-trial detention is extinguished when, since its inception, have passed: a) four months without having been charged; b) eight months without, and there will be instruction has been issued instructory decision; c) A year and two months without there being any conviction in 1st instance; . d) One year and six months without there being any conviction with res judicata 2 - The periods referred to in the preceding paragraph are high, respectively, for 6 months, 10 months, 1 year and 6 months and 2 years, in cases of terrorism or violent or highly organized crime, or when proceeding for a crime punishable with a maximum prison sentence of more than eight years, or crime: a) Provided for in Article 299 o, in paragraph 1 of Article 312, paragraph 2 of Article 315, paragraph 1 of Article 318, in Articles 319, 326 and 331 or in paragraph 1 of Article 333 of the Criminal Code; b) vehicle theft or falsification of documents relating to them or identifying elements of vehicles; c) forgery of money, securities, tax stamps, seals and equivalent or its passage; d) fraud, fraudulent bankruptcy, harmful administration of public or cooperative sector, forgery, corruption, embezzlement or participating in business; e) bleaching advantages of illicit origin; f) fraud obtaining or embezzlement of subsidies, grants or credit; . g) Covered by convention on safety of air or maritime navigation 3 - The periods referred to in paragraph 1 are high, respectively, for a year, a year and four months, two years and six months and three years and four months, when the procedure is for one of the crimes referred to above, and prove exceptionally complex, due in particular to the number of defendants or offended or highly organized nature of the crime. 4 - The exceptional complexity referred to in this article may only be declared during the 1st instance, by reasoned order, on its own initiative or at the request of the prosecutor after hearing the defendant and the wizard. 5 - The periods referred to in paragraphs c) and d ) of paragraph 1 and the correspondingly referred to in paragraphs 2 and 3 are added six months if there has been appealed to the Constitutional Court or the criminal proceedings have been suspended for trial in another question of law. 6 - Should the defendant have been sentenced to prison in 1st instance and the sentence was confirmed in ordinary appeal, the maximum period of preventive detention rises to half the sentence has been fixed. 7 - The existence of several cases against the accused for crimes committed before it received probation does not exceed the time limits laid down in the preceding paragraphs. 8 - In counting the maximum length of probation periods periods are included in that the accused have been subject to obligation to remain in the room.
http://bdjur.almedina.net/item.php?field=node_id&value=1219140
276
1 - The prosecutor terminating the investigation, filing it or deducting charges, the maximum periods of six months, if defendants arrested or under obligation to remain in the room, or eight months if there are no.
2 - The term six months referred to above is high: a) For eight months, when the survey have as their object one of the crimes referred to in paragraph 2 of Article 215; b) for 10 months when, regardless of the crime, the procedure proved exceptionally complex, according to the final part of paragraph 3 of Article 215; c) For 12 months, the cases referred to in paragraph 3 of Article 215 3 - For the purposes of the before, the period shall run from the moment that the investigation has passed to run against a person or that he has verified the creation of accused. 4 - The process of the holder magistrate informs the immediate superior breach of any period provided for in paragraphs 1 and 2 or paragraph 6 of Article 89, indicating the reasons for the delay and the time required to complete the survey. 5 - In the cases referred to above, the supervisor may to call the process and always informs the Attorney General's Office, the accused and the term violation of worker and the time required to complete the survey. 6 - Having received the notification referred to in the preceding paragraph, the Attorney General of the Republic may determine ex officio or the defendant's request or the wizard, the procedural acceleration in accordance with Article 109
http://bdjur.almedina.net/item.php?field=node_id&value=1219218
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Gosh Anna, rivetting isn't it all
*&*%£
Doesn't make a jot of difference to anything at the end of the day. As I posted a couple of days ago, just another innocent person being targetted, no hard evidence at all
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Gosh Anna, rivetting isn't it all
*&*%£
Doesn't make a jot of difference to anything at the end of the day. As I posted a couple of days ago, just another innocent person being targetted, no hard evidence at all
"Innocent until proven guilty" indeed, Mercury, but we are discussing when the release from Arquido status will be lifted.
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"Innocent until proven guilty" indeed, Mercury, but we are discussing when the release from Arquido status will be lifted.
Why?
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Why?
So that we know that he is then a free person and not an arquido, of course.
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So that we know that he is then a free person and not an arquido, of course.
Yes, of course!
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...
If I may ask again, can anyone please tell me what those 3 hatches are used for beside the front door of 5a?
Probably answered before the end of this thread and before I joined. The hatches are for utility meters so the reader can view them from outside.
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Probably answered before the end of this thread and before I joined. The hatches are for utility meters so the reader can view them from outside.
Thank you, ShiningInLuz.
Off topic, do you know where the water metres are housed?
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Thank you, ShiningInLuz.
Off topic, do you know where the water metres are housed?
Both water and electricity metres are normally on the perimeter of the property, so a reader can access them without actually going onto the property at all. Mains gas is rare - it is normally cylinders - so gas meters are rare.
The 5A cabinets look like water meters. Most times, electricity meters have a see-through housing. But I can't see ones that look like electricity meters on 5A, and I don't know how block 5 is wired or plumbed.
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Minor point, I have had time to go through the telecoms timings from José da Silva on 3rd May 2007, and compare those to Tapas 9 time checks. In brief, there is a poor match. If you care, read the post at ShiningInLuz.
Major point. Heriberto tried to gain access to the full phone records provided to the PJ and today he posted that his request had been denied. I am trying to find out if he knows why. If you care, read his full post at EspacioExterior.
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I am sorry Admin, but if someone is a burglar they are a criminal and should be treated as such by Police.
- In an abduction 'getting in' quietly is one of the skills used.
- Having the courage / audacity to do so is another 'skill'. Most men wouldn't dare to enter a property that was locked.
- Another is the mindset that it is OK to steal things.
- The relevant phone pings make four of the criteria and .....
- in depth knowledge of the place and surrounding area, make five
SY probably have other pointers.
Certain friends, something like that? Dunno what, but probably other clues..
Are you seriously suggesting that SY should NOT investigate such a man?
He may be totally innocent of any involvement with Madeleine, but he should surely be looked at thoroughly
Just why should SY ignore this man especially as he is used to entering properties illegally..... and had phone pings that tied up.
Please give sound reasons for not investigating him..
I am going through this thread for a second time, in order to try to get a better idea of the man in the title of the thread.
The best translation of 'furto' is theft. From memory, Euclides Monteiro got fired re theft of €5, but there was no burglary involved on that occasion.
'Furto' can be translated as burglary, but there are better words for burglary and 'roubo' is just as short as 'furto'.
Perhaps the person making the notes did not care about the difference, although it does seem significant. I can't tell who made the notes, when the notes were added, or how precise the note maker was.
What I do know is that making a leap from theft and equating it to burglary is a massive leap indeed. Therefore portraying JdS as a person with burglary skills is OTT, given that we do not know whether he possessed such skills or not.
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I am going through this thread for a second time, in order to try to get a better idea of the man in the title of the thread.
The best translation of 'furto' is theft. From memory, Euclides Monteiro got fired re theft of €5, but there was no burglary involved on that occasion.
'Furto' can be translated as burglary, but there are better words for burglary and 'roubo' is just as short as 'furto'.
Perhaps the person making the notes did not care about the difference, although it does seem significant. I can't tell who made the notes, when the notes were added, or how precise the note maker was.
What I do know is that making a leap from theft and equating it to burglary is a massive leap indeed. Therefore portraying JdS as a person with burglary skills is OTT, given that we do not know whether he possessed such skills or not.
I tend to agree with that. The handwritten notes appear to be from the police. The PJ or the GNR?
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I am going through this thread for a second time, in order to try to get a better idea of the man in the title of the thread.
The best translation of 'furto' is theft. From memory, Euclides Monteiro got fired re theft of €5, but there was no burglary involved on that occasion.
'Furto' can be translated as burglary, but there are better words for burglary and 'roubo' is just as short as 'furto'.
Perhaps the person making the notes did not care about the difference, although it does seem significant. I can't tell who made the notes, when the notes were added, or how precise the note maker was.
What I do know is that making a leap from theft and equating it to burglary is a massive leap indeed. Therefore portraying JdS as a person with burglary skills is OTT, given that we do not know whether he possessed such skills or not.
I must say I was very surprised that the reason the AG was said to agree to the reopening of the case was this historically petty thief/ex drug addict
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I must say I was very surprised that the reason the AG was said to agree to the reopening of the case was this historically petty thief/ex drug addict
If you look at it from the Portuguese point of view, they spent lots of time, effort and money on this case which they eventually archived. Although the files praise the British police for their help and refer to a great relationship, Amaral told a different story. When SY began to actively investigate the Portuguese would have a better idea of what they were doing and thinking if they re-opened their own investigation and took the lead. Perhaps I'm just a cynic though.
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I must say I was very surprised that the reason the AG was said to agree to the reopening of the case was this historically petty thief/ex drug addict
Did the AG ever say that? Or was that just a media invention? There would be hundreds of potential leads lurking in the files that hadn't been thoroughly investigated, him possibly being one of them.
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Did the AG ever say that? Or was that just a media invention? There would be hundreds of potential leads lurking in the files that hadn't been thoroughly investigated, him possibly being one of them.
I think the Portuguese were holding their cards very close to their chests and I think they are as capable as SY of spotting evidence which hadn't been followed through earlier in the inquiry which justified investigation.
**snip
Despite the scores of leads which have not been investigated properly, Portuguese Attorney General Pinto Monteiro dashed the McCanns’ hopes last week by saying the case would not be officially reopened, adding that no “credible” new facts had emerged during Scotland Yard’s year-long £2million investigative review of all known evidence.
Portuguese officers in Porto in northern Portugal have for some months been conducting a cold case review, liaising with Scotland Yard, but they are not making fresh inquiries.
Porto is a six-hour drive from Praia da Luz and it is not thought that any of the officers doing the review work have been active in Luz.
As the Yard unveiled a new “age progression” image of how Madeleine looks now, just before what would be her ninth birthday on May 12, there was no activity at all at the Policia Judiciaria headquarters in Porto last Wednesday.
As it was a national holiday the woman in charge of the Madeleine case, Helena Monteiro, was not even at her desk. She refused to give an interview and referred all inquiries to police in Lisbon.
At one point a noticeboard with the new image of Madeleine on it was seen being moved into a large office but one officer there said: “This is not a major investigation for us.”
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/317111/Madeleine-McCann-The-lost-clues
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... Heriberto tried to gain access to the full phone records provided to the PJ and today he posted that his request had been denied. I am trying to find out if he knows why. If you care, read his full post at EspacioExterior.
Heri has provided a copy of the rejection notification.
A European Directive, implemented in Portuguese law, requires that the phone traffic has to be requested by a recognised Judicial Authority, then the request goes in front of a judge to approve or reject.
As Heri is not a recognised Judicial Authority, his request was denied at that stage.
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Heri has provided a copy of the rejection notification.
A European Directive, implemented in Portuguese law, requires that the phone traffic has to be requested by a recognised Judicial Authority, then the request goes in front of a judge to approve or reject.
As Heri is not a recognised Judicial Authority, his request was denied at that stage.
Understandable, I suppose. And Heri is quite good at what he does, so they probably don't want to be beaten to the gun.
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Heri has provided a copy of the rejection notification.
A European Directive, implemented in Portuguese law, requires that the phone traffic has to be requested by a recognised Judicial Authority, then the request goes in front of a judge to approve or reject.
As Heri is not a recognised Judicial Authority, his request was denied at that stage.
Heriberto should ask the Company if the information has already been requested by a competent judicial authority.