Madeleine McCann: Mari Luz Cortes connection, fact and fiction.

[Robittybob1]

It is acceptable in Portugal, which is what matters. The opinions expressed by anyone else are irrelevant.

What is the current method of taking statements from foreigners?  It is always difficult to find what historic legislation looked like. 

[Sunny]

What is the current method of taking statements from foreigners?  It is always difficult to find what historic legislation looked like.

Looks like it must be in Portuguese

The submission of evidence is acceptable only in the Portuguese language. There is no right to have the
evidence translated into your language. You can, however, make an application to the court if you need
very important evidence to be translated. The decision is at the discretion of the court, but if the court
accepts, you will not have to pay for it.
https://pt.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/185/Judicial-Assistance-to-arrestees-handout_cleared-Nov2017.pdf

I cannot see the British police agreeing to have witness evidence in Portuguese either to be frank.

[Mr Gray]

Looks like it must be in Portuguese

The submission of evidence is acceptable only in the Portuguese language. There is no right to have the
evidence translated into your language. You can, however, make an application to the court if you need
very important evidence to be translated. The decision is at the discretion of the court, but if the court
accepts, you will not have to pay for it.
https://pt.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/185/Judicial-Assistance-to-arrestees-handout_cleared-Nov2017.pdf

I cannot see the British police agreeing to have witness evidence in Portuguese either to be frank.

In the UK the suspects, statement is taken in their own language then translated... In that way there is a, record of what the suspect actually  said

[Robittybob1]

Looks like it must be in Portuguese

The submission of evidence is acceptable only in the Portuguese language. There is no right to have the
evidence translated into your language. You can, however, make an application to the court if you need
very important evidence to be translated. The decision is at the discretion of the court, but if the court
accepts, you will not have to pay for it.
https://pt.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/185/Judicial-Assistance-to-arrestees-handout_cleared-Nov2017.pdf

I cannot see the British police agreeing to have witness evidence in Portuguese either to be frank.

What you have covered is the procedure in the court.  In court evidence has to be submitted in Portuguese. 

What is in dispute is how a person who can't speak Portuguese going to give evidence?  How is a non Portuguese witness going to give evidence?

How does the original statement get taken?

In many countries the original statement is taken in the native language of the witness, it is then translated to the language of the country where the Court is.  The idea that there is no record of the original statement in the native language seems to be incorrect in my opinion.  In the McCann case all the steps by the translators seems 100% verbal and only a Portuguese version results.

[Brietta]

What you have covered is the procedure in the court.  In court evidence has to be submitted in Portuguese. 

What is in dispute is how a person who can't speak Portuguese going to give evidence?  How is a non Portuguese witness going to give evidence?

How does the original statement get taken?

In many countries the original statement is taken in the native language of the witness, it is then translated to the language of the country where the Court is.  The idea that there is no record of the original statement in the native language seems to be incorrect in my opinion.  In the McCann case all the steps by the translators seems 100% verbal and only a Portuguese version results.

The fact that many months down the line the PJ were asking Kate ... "16   What does “we let her down” mean?" in my opinion shows the enormous chasm between what was said and the meaning of it.

I believe the investigators thought it was a medical term ... one could have thought that if so it might have been pertinent to find out exactly what it did mean prior to the arguida interview.

[Robittybob1]

The fact that many months down the line the PJ were asking Kate ... "16   What does “we let her down” mean?" in my opinion shows the enormous chasm between what was said and the meaning of it.

I believe the investigators thought it was a medical term ... one could have thought that if so it might have been pertinent to find out exactly what it did mean prior to the arguida interview.

In veterinary terms we'd say "put her down"  in other words euthanasia.  Whereas a mother might "put her down" meaning put the baby girl to bed.
There is certainly more than one possible meaning for a set of words.

[Brietta]

In veterinary terms we'd say "put her down"  in other words euthanasia.  Whereas a mother might "put her down" meaning put the baby girl to bed.
There is certainly more than one possible meaning for a set of words.

Usually the meaning of a phrase is clear when used in context.

[Robittybob1]

Usually the meaning of a phrase is clear when used in context.

True but if a  vet came to me and said "I put my daughter down"  I would be scratching my head.
So if Kate said we let her down, referring to Madeleine, what did she mean?

It is unlikely to be a confession as in "we let her down into a deep well where no one will ever find her".

More likely a cry of despair "we let her down by not being here".

[Brietta]

True but if a  vet came to me and said "I put my daughter down"  I would be scratching my head.
So if Kate said we let her down, referring to Madeleine, what did she mean?

It is unlikely to be a confession as in "we let her down into a deep well where no one will ever find her".

More likely a cry of despair "we let her down by not being here".

Precisely

[Eleanor]

True but if a  vet came to me and said "I put my daughter down"  I would be scratching my head.
So if Kate said we let her down, referring to Madeleine, what did she mean?

It is unlikely to be a confession as in "we let her down into a deep well where no one will ever find her".

More likely a cry of despair "we let her down by not being here".

Exactement.

[G-Unit]

The fact that many months down the line the PJ were asking Kate ... "16   What does “we let her down” mean?" in my opinion shows the enormous chasm between what was said and the meaning of it.

I believe the investigators thought it was a medical term ... one could have thought that if so it might have been pertinent to find out exactly what it did mean prior to the arguida interview.

It was something Kate thought at first, but she was later reassured (by a barrister no less!) that her behaviour was well within the bounds of reasonable parenting.

[Mr Gray]

It was something Kate thought at first, but she was later reassured (by a barrister no less!) that her behaviour was well within the bounds of reasonable parenting.

its not something I would do but its something I have done...i think it probably is within the bounds of responsible parenting...with all those children left in chalets at Butlins...none seem to have come to any harm

[pathfinder73]

I'm misinforming no one.... The PJs method of recording statements for non Portuguese speakers is woefully inadequate..... .as Sutton pointed out and is a recipe for error

Don't blame them for Gerry not knowing which door he used to check.

[Alice Purjorick]

What is the current method of taking statements from foreigners?  It is always difficult to find what historic legislation looked like.

The critical issue is how the statement may be used after it has been taken. It may only be in accordance with the relevant laws and court procedures. [Refer CCP].

[Robittybob1]

The critical issue is how the statement may be used after it has been taken. It may only be in accordance with the relevant laws and court procedures. [Refer CCP].

The statements taken from the majority Portuguese speaking witnesses were essentially OK IMO, it would only be those taken from non-Portuguese speaking persons that would have issues if it ever came to a court hearing.

But you would think all statements should have been taken from the beginning to a standard that they could be used "in accordance with the relevant laws and court procedures".

They ended up with the crazy situation of one of the translators becoming an arguido.