Wandering Off Topic

[Brietta]

North Carolina, 4-yr-old boy reported missing, police search apartment, find nothing, issue an Amber Alert, then child is found 5 hours later in a wardrobe asleep under a pile of clothes

In the cases you have sourced, Pegasus, despite the failure of the initial search of the premises which failed to locate the missing child ... the child did eventually turn up.

The point about Madeleine is that she did not ... as far as I am concerned that rules out the notion she may have been quietly snoozing in a cupboard oblivious to her mother's wails of despair and the noise which was loud enough to cause Mrs Fenn to wonder what was going on.

[G-Unit]

In the cases you have sourced, Pegasus, despite the failure of the initial search of the premises which failed to locate the missing child ... the child did eventually turn up.

The point about Madeleine is that she did not ... as far as I am concerned that rules out the notion she may have been quietly snoozing in a cupboard oblivious to her mother's wails of despair and the noise which was loud enough to cause Mrs Fenn to wonder what was going on.

Unless she slept as deeply as the twins seemed to sleep?

[Brietta]

Unless she slept as deeply as the twins seemed to sleep?

She would have wakened at some point in time and been found by the forensic team working in the apartment.

[pegasus]

She would have wakened at some point in time and been found by the forensic team working in the apartment.

What about the south bedroom? The PJ forensic team May 4 did nothing in the south bedroom IMO, no searching,  no collection of hairs, no dragon dusting for prints, no uv lights, no examination of footprints. See the plan of the apartment in the files on which all the areas examined forensically are marked - it shows that there were no forensics done in south bedroom.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

[mercury]

What about the south bedroom? The PJ forensic team May 4 did nothing in the south bedroom IMO, no searching,  no collection of hairs, no dragon dusting for prints, no uv lights, no examination of footprints. See the plan of the apartment in the files on which all the areas examined forensically are marked - it shows that there were no forensics done in south bedroom.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

They believed the parents? Of what happened and where? And how possibly? Can police be so naive?
Or is it a case of no experience due to no child abductions ever having happened in that town??
It is a pity they didnt do forensics in the whole apartment

[misty]

What about the south bedroom? The PJ forensic team May 4 did nothing in the south bedroom IMO, no searching,  no collection of hairs, no dragon dusting for prints, no uv lights, no examination of footprints. See the plan of the apartment in the files on which all the areas examined forensically are marked - it shows that there were no forensics done in south bedroom.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

In light of GA's assertions that he suspected the parents from 4th May 2007, can you offer a reasonable explanation as to why he would not have ordered a forensic sweep of the south bedroom?

[pegasus]

In light of GA's assertions that he suspected the parents from 4th May 2007, can you offer a reasonable explanation as to why he would not have ordered a forensic sweep of the south bedroom?

The first intelligence to indicate that the south bedroom may have been a crime scene was obtained on evening of 1 Aug 2007 Misty.

[pegasus]

... however I agree that forensics should have been done of the whole apartment on on 4 May.
Unfortunatly the PJ on 4 May did absolutely no forensics behind that sofa (they didn't even pull it away from the window IMO). And they did absolutely no forensics on the wardrobe of the south bedroom on 4 May, no forensics of the large luggage item in that wardrobe (is there any record that they even looked inside in it?), and no forensics of the jumbled pile of clothes in that wardrobe.

[misty]

The first intelligence to indicate that the south bedroom may have been a crime scene was obtained on evening of 1 Aug 2007 Misty.

If the suspicion of parental involvement was there, examinations should have been undertaken almost immediately, not after a 3 month period during which contamination was permitted.
There was a forensic sweep done on 4th May on the ground from the children's bedroom to the front door & also through to the rear patio door. Why would CSI not have examined the route to the third exit point, ie the patio doors in the parents' bedroom?

[pegasus]

If the suspicion of parental involvement was there, examinations should have been undertaken almost immediately, not after a 3 month period during which contamination was permitted.
There was a forensic sweep done on 4th May on the ground from the children's bedroom to the front door & also through to the rear patio door. Why would CSI not have examined the route to the third exit point, ie the patio doors in the parents' bedroom?

Probably because there was no evidence that the south bedroom glass door had been unlocked that evening Misty, also because its shutter was down, and it would be very difficult (although not completely impossible) for someone to exit that way and close the shutter behind them.

[misty]

Probably because there was no evidence that the south bedroom glass door had been unlocked that evening Misty, also because its shutter was down, and it would be very difficult (although not completely impossible) for someone to exit that way and close the shutter behind them.

Can that very same argument not be applied to the children's bedroom window if, as Amaral said, he believed the scene was staged?

[pegasus]

Can that very same argument not be applied to the children's bedroom window if, as Amaral said, he believed the scene was staged?

Forensics were done on the north bedroom window simply because it was found open.

[Gadfly1.3]

Why Am I not allowed to ask Pegasus where he or she thinks Madeleine was hidden or hiding, and why am I not allowed to express an opinion about his or her theory? If this post is deleted without explanation would you also kindly once and for all delete this account permanently.  There is no point continuing to post on a forum where one is censored for no good reason.

Don't go Alfred.  Even I'll stick up for your freedom of speech, even if Brietta has started censoring me.

Hope you listen to my advice and come back (I have twice).  We go back a long way -- I mean you even warned me via PM about all the lynchmob that will target me if I look at this case in an even handed way.   It's a shame you became more critical of me when I started to evaluate the evidence, but I'd still prefer you around.  You built up my self-esteem in my early posts by praising the quality of them publicly.

Come on, my old aristocratic son, -- I know Gerry got a little bit agitated this week on national television, but there is no need for the agitation to spread to people who aren't directly involved in the case.

If you don't come back, can I start using your trademark R. in the middle of my username?  Thanks, G.

[pathfinder73]

30 seconds, 3 minutes or 30 minutes.

"David's visit was to help her to take the children to the recreation area. When David returned from the beach he was with Gerry at the tennis courts, and it was Gerry who asked him to help Kate with taking the children to the recreation area, which had been arranged but did not take place. David was at the apartment for around 30 seconds." (KM 6 Sep 2007)

"At 18H30, the time at which he saw DP next to the tennis court. DAVID went to visit KATE and the children and returned close to 19H00" (GM 10 May 2007)

"Gerry had asked me just to pop in and check everything was alright err with Kate or you know again I can't remember the exact reason whether he was just making sure it was alright that he could stay there and you know more time but you know he'd asked me to pop in." (DP 11 April 2008)

1485 "I'm gonna pin you down and ask you how long you think you were in there for. I know you say minutes.'

DP "In their apartment, it, it, I'd say three minutes, five maximum.'

[G-Unit]

I think me and Matt went straight to the, the courts, Dave went off to his apartment and I believe, erm, to Gerry and Kate’s apartment as well........“You said Dave went to the apartment'”
 Reply    “Well he did, but only briefly and then, well he went, he went back there and then, and then joined us, so fairly rapidly there was the full kind of compliment of, erm, of, the male adults within the group were playing tennis.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm

So we went, got our stuff and came back to the courts, which were already in play, because the social had already started. And Gerry was down playing on a court, I think there was only three of them, I think the, erm, the coach, whose name I can't remember, the tennis coach, the blonde haired bloke, erm, was playing to make up the numbers. And so we waited and watched for a little while, so we didn't get on court until, phew, sometime closer to seven, so maybe sort of quarter to or twenty to or ten to seven we went down to the court.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MATTHEW-OLDFIELD-ROGATORY.htm

I'm not sure you know what happened to Matt and Russell at that particular moment but I remember then you know I went over to see err Gerry at the err you know tennis courts, just to see you know what was happening, and err decided that we'd, you know I'd come, come back to play tennis.......got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he'd, he'd played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Regarding his previous statement where he states that David returned half an hour later around 19:00, he says that he returned to the tennis court after half an hour, as this time frame refers to the second time he returned to the tennis court after getting ready for the game.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm

So they went straight to the tennis courts (Russell) or they all three went and got their stuff from the apartments (Matt) or David went to see Gerry while Russell and Matt went somewhere unknown.(David)

David came back very quickly from the McCann's apartment (Russ). Gerry agrees, but he went off again to get ready then, returning at 7pm. Matt agrees they didn't play until 7pm, but they were watching the game from 6.40 or 6,45 or 6.50pm.