Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.

[Holly Goodhead]

Hi Holly,

There are many different prints you can see from some of the photos, some have been identified in some detail outside of the police reports.. but there dooesn't appear to be too much focus from them about the importance of the different tyre tracks as if conveniently swept under the carpet.. unless of course there is a bundle of information undisclosed that was not deemed important to the prosecution..

Sorry I was referring to tyre prints above when I meant tyre tracks!  I wonder if initially officers were not particularly motivated in bringing the perps to justice on the basis of the victims' backgrounds?  Maybe they underestimated press attention which then resulted in government/police hierarchy putting pressure on the 'foot soldiers' by which time a lot of evidence that could potentially have been captured was lost.

We know Donna Jagger gave a press conference on 8th Dec appealing for info:

https://www.theguardian.com/fromthearchive/story/0,,1715361,00.html

It is obvious the police would interview those close to the murdered trio in an attempt to find out what they were up to.  They would also look through their phone records.  If Steele/Whomes were suspected in the early days they would have been taken in for questioning and have their vehicles, homes, possessions examined.  The prosecution claim Steele travelled in the Range Rover and that Steele/Whomes left the soc by the VW Passat and yet no soil forensics linking Steele/Whomes?!

https://www.huttonltd.com/services/soil-forensics

The Range Rover and Passat were forensically examined.  Steele from Great Bentley where apparently he spent a lot of time at his mother's in Point Clear.  These areas will be very geologically different to South Essex.  Where's the soil forensics linking Steele to Range Rover?  Where's the soil forensics from soc in the Passat?  It is claimed Whomes was lying in wait in the bushes/hedges where's the plant dna from soc in the Passat?

[Holly Goodhead]

Furthermore, Nicholls alleges that the gun Mick is carrying falls to pieces in "TV Bloopers" style during the hit.. Police forensics confirm only one gun used.. If they weren't dead already they would of surely moved from the relaxed position during this gun failure if they were taking it in turns to shoot them to share the responsibility. Nicholls uses this tactic in nearly of all his statements, he adds detail to the event which are designed to add a level of credence to the story but under scrutiny don't stack up. In my opinion to carry out a hit this clinically apart from being an expert you'd at least need to have some confidence the weapons were serviced correctly and fit for purpose.

Imo the police wanted to see Steele and Whomes go down for the murders hence DN's testimony of the pair partaking.

The experts description is VERY revealing:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg510061#msg510061

"He said from the relaxed positions of the deceased three it appeared to have happened very rapidly. There was not time for special movement or something to move them from their comfortable positions".

The above imo rules out Steele/Whomes and many silly theories emanating from the likes of Billy Jasper about a Mr D. 

The perp(s) were clearly able to orchestrate the whole thing from the location to knowing they could get Tate sitting near side.  If Tate was sitting off side it would have made shooting Rolfe and Tucker through the rear off side open door impossible without Tate knowing what was about to take place.  And shooting through the near side open door wasn't an option as the perp needed some distance which wasn't available that side with the hedges.

The perp(s) were clearly known and trusted by the murdered trio hence their "comfortable positions".  3 gang members murdered in one episode by other gang members would be a first? for the UK if this is what happened?!   

The CoA doc states:

"He said that he would be giving information about the illegal activities of police officers but that he had not said anything so far to Detective Constables Brown and Winstone because he did not know if he could trust them. Detective Superintendent Barrington assured him that they were trustworthy".

According to the above DN does not restrict his revelations to DC Bird who the police and courts acknowledge had a corrupt relationship with DN.  Who were the "police officers"?

We know DN was a police informant and had a corrupt relationship with at least one police officer, DC Bird.  We know DN's mobile was the only mobile whereby a call was routed through the Rettendon tower at a time it is thought the murders took place.  It has been said Tate was also a police informant.  We know Tate told Sarah Saunders he was "with some people" when she last spoke with him on his mobile at 18.44.  We know Nicholls and Tate were associates/friends.  We know someone was calling Tate, Tucker and Nicholls from call boxes on the day of the murders.  If Whomes and Steele were making these calls there was no need for them to call Nicholls from a call box when all the other calls made to Nicholls on that day from Steele/Whomes were mobile to mobile.  Were the "some people" corrupt police officers involved in "illegal activities"?  Did police officers murder the trio? 

What was the extent of the "illegal activities"?  Were corrupt police officers seizing drugs from one gang and selling all or part of the haul to other gangs?  Or dealing on behalf of other criminals?  Or officers taking drugs/inducements in exchange for turning a blind eye and/or providing police intelligence enabling the gangs to stay ahead?  Maybe the murdered trio were becoming a liability to corrupt officers and putting them in compromising positions with other criminals and/or the vast majority of honest police officers?   

Nicholls, Rolfe, Steele, Tate, Tucker and Whomes were all criminals involved in various forms of criminality including drug dealing.  The police (and most of the public) have no respect for any of these people especially on the back of the death of Leah Betts whether or not they were directly, indirectly involved or not involved. 

Imo corrupt police officers were responsible for the murders.  You can hear about such a case in Oz : Roger Rogerson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJzCdxCQMs

I'm not suggesting DC Bird was responsible but he may well have been working with other corrupt officers and not necessarily from Essex Police either. 

Corrupt police officers tick all the boxes:

- Trained in ambush techniques/marksman/sniper
- May well have honed their skills at Peter Theobald's shooting range or at least be aware of such a facility and how it would afford the ideal location for the murders.
- Would have been trusted by trio in terms of not suspecting them of pulling firearms
- Would understand how not to leave forensic evidence at soc
- Working with the likes of Nicholls and Tate enabling the murders
- Phone calls from phone boxes to Nicholls, Tate and Tucker on day of murders

[Holly Goodhead]

Just watched the following re Roger Rogerson bent Oz cop now serving life imprisonment for murder, drug trafficking and perverting the course of justice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEf3GHIBj4s



 

[Holly Goodhead]

Chud do you know if jurors were taken to soc?  I can't see that they were?

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason with cases involving shooting incidents.  At the trials of Tony Martin and Barry George jurors were taken to soc.  At Jeremy Bamber's trial jurors were not taken to soc. 

[Chud]

Chud do you know if jurors were taken to soc?  I can't see that they were?

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason with cases involving shooting incidents.  At the trials of Tony Martin and Barry George jurors were taken to soc.  At Jeremy Bamber's trial jurors were not taken to soc.

Hi Holly,

Very good question that, I am not aware from any of the reading of documents that this happened. I think this opportunity was missed and at the same time it could of been put to good use in explaining the difficult logistics of carrying out the crime without any tangible forensics in the official narrative. From what I can see, the defence spent most of the time trying to undermine Nicholls character rather than looking at this scientifically.. For example how do you extract yourself from the scene without leaving any trace etc.. I'll see if I can get a definitive answer..

[Chud]

After a good search the only thing the jurors were shown relating to the SOC is photos at the trial.. In the summing up when referring to the evidence there are only mentions of the photos they have seen..

[Holly Goodhead]

After a good search the only thing the jurors were shown relating to the SOC is photos at the trial.. In the summing up when referring to the evidence there are only mentions of the photos they have seen..

Thanks Chud.  I would have thought it was relevant for jurors to be taken to soc?

There doesn't appear to be any standard format for trials.  Sometimes jurors are taken to soc sometimes not. 

[Chud]

Considering the length of the trial, I'm wondering if the defense presented their case with more focus on the logistics of the hit, the lack of forensics at the SOC and other elements which to this day still cause doubt then maybe a visit would of been viable.. I know they visited the Bamber scene (I believe?) , was that at the request of the prosecution, the defense or the judge? tks

[Myster]

Considering the length of the trial, I'm wondering if the defense presented their case with more focus on the logistics of the hit, the lack of forensics at the SOC and other elements which to this day still cause doubt then maybe a visit would of been viable.. I know they visited the Bamber scene (I believe?) , was that at the request of the prosecution, the defense or the judge? tks

No Chud, the jury only visited Fingringhoe firing range to see a demonstration by Malcolm Fletcher of the actual Anschutz 525 rifle.  A junior counsel representing Bamber, Edmund Lawson QC, drove himself there rather than travelling by coach with the barristers and jury, but he got lost on the way and missed the demo.  A life cut short in his prime unfortunately...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/law-obituaries/5309767/Edmund-Lawson-QC.html

[Chud]

Thanks Myster, appreciate the correction, very interesting, I'll have a read of that article Tks..

[Holly Goodhead]

Hi Chud

I was just listening to BBC Radio 4 and heard the following which I'm sure will be music to the ears of Steele and Whomes :

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/12/denmark-frees-32-inmates-over-flawed-geolocation-revelations

[Chud]

Hi Holly,

What a great find.. there's a few interesting points within that article, apart from the fact it now looks like the technology is fallible they go on to say that a couple of cases were rejected based on other evidence which I assume was very incriminating for those they mention. But for this case it was only the so called phone evidence and a duff testimony by Nichols that put them away...   Cheers

[Hari Gul]

Hi, I know this thread is dying down a bit now, but I thought I'd throw this in for consideration, since I enjoyed reading this thread a couple of weeks back and think the people on here are talented.   I was moved enough to join the forum so that I could post this as I believe it's pertinent.

https://www.essexnewsandinvestigations.com/single-post/2018/09/22/EXCLUSIVE-1

I believe in my heart that the people directly responsible for Rettendon murders are the people in Canning Town.  The name of the firm you are interested in is the Hunt Syndicate.   Until very recently there was a local essex news article about one of the people Hunt handed out retribution to, but the story is missing now (presumably at the behest of Hunt's solicitors who seems very active in keeping his name clean).   The article basically talked about Hunt's methods and was about a man called Paul Cavanagh who had ripped Hunt off and who had got his throat slashed in a sales caravan on a second hand car lot.    This lets you know how Hunt views people who rip him off but the article is missing now sadly.    If you have access to the Times website I believe there is still a version of that story on there

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-feared-a-beating-but-the-long-fella-asked-for-a-knife-zl6qqw6ll9z

It reinforces the fact that when people rip Hunt off, he feels that an example must be made, otherwise all his other business partners will do same.    Bear in mind, the Hunt syndicate is one of the groups Tate's group ripped off.   In other words what I am slowly trying to get to is this.   One man ripped Hunt off by selling a car he shouldn't have sold and apologised profusely for it.   This man knew Hunt well and had babysat his kids.   He got his throat ripped out by Hunt for his mistake.   The rettendon three ripped Hunt off and were entirely unapologetic and then acted like they were untouchable.   This would have incensed David Hunt.   This is all conjecture but I am trying to set the tone for how Hunt deals with different people based on what they've done to him, and what their attitude about it is.

If you have access to the leaked copy of the Tiberius report you will see that Hunt has several members of the Met in his back pocket, each of whom have several other members in their back pocket, so it ends up being a large network of corrupt officers.   I also believe, but cannot prove, that Hunt has corrupted several high ranking officers through his links with the Freemasons.

I honestly believe this is who is involved and if it is true then you will not solve the Rettendon case until corruption has been cleared from the Met.   I'm not sure if this is a realistic thing to hope for.    I believe corruption in all our police forces up and down the country is wide spread and common.   I believe the corruption in our country goes all the way up into the commons and the lords.

Thats all I really came to say, other than to say this.   If you are going to poke around in Hunt's business be careful.   Their favourite method of getting someone's address is to use the national crime database through corrupt officers, and their second favourite method is using credit card databases, who several members of that firm have access to owing to the fact that they are ex-debt collectors.

It may interest you to know that in the wake of the Rettendon murders,  the Hunt Syndicate moved into Essex fast and took over all the ground that the essex three had previously operated.   Clubs and drugs, mainly and so I believe the Hunt's reasons for committing the murders would have been numerous and is not limited to:

1) Deals where the essex three had ripped off the hunt syndicate - personal reasons
2) the hunt syndicate was looking to expand their territory anyway - business reasons
3) a further motivation would have been that Hunt would have scored good boy points for the murders with several corrupt officers in the met -  so, an act which expanded the Hunt Syndicates corrupt officer network.

Thats really all I came to say other than to be careful when you dig around on this stuff.  GL.

[sika]

Hi, I know this thread is dying down a bit now, but I thought I'd throw this in for consideration, since I enjoyed reading this thread a couple of weeks back and think the people on here are talented.   I was moved enough to join the forum so that I could post this as I believe it's pertinent.

https://www.essexnewsandinvestigations.com/single-post/2018/09/22/EXCLUSIVE-1

I believe in my heart that the people directly responsible for Rettendon murders are the people in Canning Town.  The name of the firm you are interested in is the Hunt Syndicate.   Until very recently there was a local essex news article about one of the people Hunt handed out retribution to, but the story is missing now (presumably at the behest of Hunt's solicitors who seems very active in keeping his name clean).   The article basically talked about Hunt's methods and was about a man called Paul Cavanagh who had ripped Hunt off and who had got his throat slashed in a sales caravan on a second hand car lot.    This lets you know how Hunt views people who rip him off but the article is missing now sadly.    If you have access to the Times website I believe there is still a version of that story on there

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-feared-a-beating-but-the-long-fella-asked-for-a-knife-zl6qqw6ll9z

It reinforces the fact that when people rip Hunt off, he feels that an example must be made, otherwise all his other business partners will do same.    Bear in mind, the Hunt syndicate is one of the groups Tate's group ripped off.   In other words what I am slowly trying to get to is this.   One man ripped Hunt off by selling a car he shouldn't have sold and apologised profusely for it.   This man knew Hunt well and had babysat his kids.   He got his throat ripped out by Hunt for his mistake.   The rettendon three ripped Hunt off and were entirely unapologetic and then acted like they were untouchable.   This would have incensed David Hunt.   This is all conjecture but I am trying to set the tone for how Hunt deals with different people based on what they've done to him, and what their attitude about it is.

If you have access to the leaked copy of the Tiberius report you will see that Hunt has several members of the Met in his back pocket, each of whom have several other members in their back pocket, so it ends up being a large network of corrupt officers.   I also believe, but cannot prove, that Hunt has corrupted several high ranking officers through his links with the Freemasons.

I honestly believe this is who is involved and if it is true then you will not solve the Rettendon case until corruption has been cleared from the Met.   I'm not sure if this is a realistic thing to hope for.    I believe corruption in all our police forces up and down the country is wide spread and common.   I believe the corruption in our country goes all the way up into the commons and the lords.

Thats all I really came to say, other than to say this.   If you are going to poke around in Hunt's business be careful.   Their favourite method of getting someone's address is to use the national crime database through corrupt officers, and their second favourite method is using credit card databases, who several members of that firm have access to owing to the fact that they are ex-debt collectors.

It may interest you to know that in the wake of the Rettendon murders,  the Hunt Syndicate moved into Essex fast and took over all the ground that the essex three had previously operated.   Clubs and drugs, mainly and so I believe the Hunt's reasons for committing the murders would have been numerous and is not limited to:

1) Deals where the essex three had ripped off the hunt syndicate - personal reasons
2) the hunt syndicate was looking to expand their territory anyway - business reasons
3) a further motivation would have been that Hunt would have scored good boy points for the murders with several corrupt officers in the met -  so, an act which expanded the Hunt Syndicates corrupt officer network.

Thats really all I came to say other than to be careful when you dig around on this stuff.  GL.

Hi Hari gul, interesting stuff.  I've never read anything which links TTR to Hunt.  How did they "rip him off" ?

[Holly Goodhead]

Hi, I know this thread is dying down a bit now, but I thought I'd throw this in for consideration, since I enjoyed reading this thread a couple of weeks back and think the people on here are talented.   I was moved enough to join the forum so that I could post this as I believe it's pertinent.

https://www.essexnewsandinvestigations.com/single-post/2018/09/22/EXCLUSIVE-1

I believe in my heart that the people directly responsible for Rettendon murders are the people in Canning Town.  The name of the firm you are interested in is the Hunt Syndicate.   Until very recently there was a local essex news article about one of the people Hunt handed out retribution to, but the story is missing now (presumably at the behest of Hunt's solicitors who seems very active in keeping his name clean).   The article basically talked about Hunt's methods and was about a man called Paul Cavanagh who had ripped Hunt off and who had got his throat slashed in a sales caravan on a second hand car lot.    This lets you know how Hunt views people who rip him off but the article is missing now sadly.    If you have access to the Times website I believe there is still a version of that story on there

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-feared-a-beating-but-the-long-fella-asked-for-a-knife-zl6qqw6ll9z

It reinforces the fact that when people rip Hunt off, he feels that an example must be made, otherwise all his other business partners will do same.    Bear in mind, the Hunt syndicate is one of the groups Tate's group ripped off.   In other words what I am slowly trying to get to is this.   One man ripped Hunt off by selling a car he shouldn't have sold and apologised profusely for it.   This man knew Hunt well and had babysat his kids.   He got his throat ripped out by Hunt for his mistake.   The rettendon three ripped Hunt off and were entirely unapologetic and then acted like they were untouchable.   This would have incensed David Hunt.   This is all conjecture but I am trying to set the tone for how Hunt deals with different people based on what they've done to him, and what their attitude about it is.

If you have access to the leaked copy of the Tiberius report you will see that Hunt has several members of the Met in his back pocket, each of whom have several other members in their back pocket, so it ends up being a large network of corrupt officers.   I also believe, but cannot prove, that Hunt has corrupted several high ranking officers through his links with the Freemasons.

I honestly believe this is who is involved and if it is true then you will not solve the Rettendon case until corruption has been cleared from the Met.   I'm not sure if this is a realistic thing to hope for.    I believe corruption in all our police forces up and down the country is wide spread and common.   I believe the corruption in our country goes all the way up into the commons and the lords.

Thats all I really came to say, other than to say this.   If you are going to poke around in Hunt's business be careful.   Their favourite method of getting someone's address is to use the national crime database through corrupt officers, and their second favourite method is using credit card databases, who several members of that firm have access to owing to the fact that they are ex-debt collectors.

It may interest you to know that in the wake of the Rettendon murders,  the Hunt Syndicate moved into Essex fast and took over all the ground that the essex three had previously operated.   Clubs and drugs, mainly and so I believe the Hunt's reasons for committing the murders would have been numerous and is not limited to:

1) Deals where the essex three had ripped off the hunt syndicate - personal reasons
2) the hunt syndicate was looking to expand their territory anyway - business reasons
3) a further motivation would have been that Hunt would have scored good boy points for the murders with several corrupt officers in the met -  so, an act which expanded the Hunt Syndicates corrupt officer network.

Thats really all I came to say other than to be careful when you dig around on this stuff.  GL.

Hi Hari Gul.  Welcome to the forum and thanks for the above.

I think you might be right.  Based on the ballistics evidence I came to the conclusion that the murders were committed by someone formally trained with firearms ie police or military with the only other possibility being terrorist trained.  Afaik DH has not received such training so if he was involved he must then have put others up to it.

I also note in your post you mention debt collecting which Tucker was involved in too.  I've always wondered whether there was any connection with a Mr Jackson who run Billericay Bailiff Services from an outbuilding he sublet on the Theobald's farm?  Mrs Theobald said on the day of the murders she saw a vehicle pull up (white Sierra from memory) carrying 3/4 burly men which she assumed was in connection with the debt collecting business. 

I also don't think it was any accident the murders took place where they did; the proximity to the shooting range was used so others would not think the sound of firearm discharge unusual.