Author Topic: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.  (Read 78976 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #270 on: July 06, 2018, 01:02:19 PM »
I think you are getting bogged down in interpretations and there is no blood running FROM her eye. When he talks about 'vertical' he means it's running down. He didn't mention blood running FROM her eye because no blood ran from her eye, it ran TO her eye from her nose and mouth.

If I'm getting bogged down in interpretation it's because it isn't clear to me what Dr Vanezis means:

"There was blood around her mouth which had run down her face in a vertical direction.  In addition there was also a small amount of blood around her nose". 

But the blood running down SC's cheeks towards her ears is the complete opposite direction of blood running down the length of June's leg and he refers to both as vertical.

The blood trails from or to the eye and from or to the mouth connect so one might have caused the other or not.  The blood trials from the nostrils do not connect.

In any event like most aspects of the case I don't believe it is straightforward because we know SC sustained 2 gsw's and the pathological evidence suggests she was in a slightly upright position for both meaning some of the blood trails might have originated from the 1st gsw and others may have originated from the 2nd gsw when it is said she would have fallen back instantly.  There's also the possibility blood may have pooled and then been released if she was moved.

Upshot is the most senior first respondent said her head was slightly raised against  the bsc.  Forensic scientist Dr Ismail said the exact thing based on blood stains and nightdress.



Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #271 on: July 06, 2018, 01:08:39 PM »
David did you Caroline or Myster have the benefit of observing SC first hand?  No but A/PS Woodcock did.

Do any of you have any qualifications or experience in forensic science, bsa etc?  No not afaik but Dr Ismail does.

Sorry to disappoint but I'm going with A/PS Woodcock and Dr Ismail.   &^&*%
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #272 on: July 06, 2018, 01:56:18 PM »
If I'm getting bogged down in interpretation it's because it isn't clear to me what Dr Vanezis means:

"There was blood around her mouth which had run down her face in a vertical direction.  In addition there was also a small amount of blood around her nose". 

But the blood running down SC's cheeks towards her ears is the complete opposite direction of blood running down the length of June's leg and he refers to both as vertical.

The blood trails from or to the eye and from or to the mouth connect so one might have caused the other or not.  The blood trials from the nostrils do not connect.

In any event like most aspects of the case I don't believe it is straightforward because we know SC sustained 2 gsw's and the pathological evidence suggests she was in a slightly upright position for both meaning some of the blood trails might have originated from the 1st gsw and others may have originated from the 2nd gsw when it is said she would have fallen back instantly.  There's also the possibility blood may have pooled and then been released if she was moved.

Upshot is the most senior first respondent said her head was slightly raised against  the bsc.  Forensic scientist Dr Ismail said the exact thing based on blood stains and nightdress.

How can it have been released? It's bone dry and cracking.

The picture shows that her head wasn't raised so I have no confidence in what Woodcock or Ismail states and Venezis only said her head was raised slightly when shot.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #273 on: July 06, 2018, 02:25:19 PM »
How can it have been released? It's bone dry and cracking.

A/PS Woodcock observed SC at approx 7.30am and noted her head sightly raised against the bsc.  The soc images were taken at approx 10.30am so there's a 3 hour window during which the expert evidence suggests SC was moved.  Dr Ismail claims following the 2nd gsw SC's head would have been propped up against the bsc and she was subsequently pulled down by her feet.  If this is the case and blood pooled internally it may have emitted through orifices when her head fell to the floor.

The picture shows that her head wasn't raised so I have no confidence in what Woodcock or Ismail states and Venezis only said her head was raised slightly when shot.

But the picture was taken 3 hours after A/PS Woodcock observed SC at 7.30am. 

Blood has clearly run down her nostrils so when and how do you think this came about?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #274 on: July 06, 2018, 06:59:31 PM »
A/PS Woodcock observed SC at approx 7.30am and noted her head sightly raised against the bsc.  The soc images were taken at approx 10.30am so there's a 3 hour window during which the expert evidence suggests SC was moved.  Dr Ismail claims following the 2nd gsw SC's head would have been propped up against the bsc and she was subsequently pulled down by her feet.  If this is the case and blood pooled internally it may have emitted through orifices when her head fell to the floor.

But the picture was taken 3 hours after A/PS Woodcock observed SC at 7.30am. 

Blood has clearly run down her nostrils so when and how do you think this came about?

Not sure what you mean? The head contains a lot of blood. The first shot hit the right jugular and the second went through the hard palate into the brain, blood would have leaked from these injuries - she wouldn't have had to be sat up for it to find a way down her nose and mouth and clearly she wasn't because as the blood exited her nose, it ran up her face - to a greater extent on the left side but there is still evidence of it on the right.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #275 on: July 06, 2018, 08:30:35 PM »
Not sure what you mean? The head contains a lot of blood. The first shot hit the right jugular and the second went through the hard palate into the brain, blood would have leaked from these injuries - she wouldn't have had to be sat up for it to find a way down her nose and mouth and clearly she wasn't because as the blood exited her nose, it ran up her face - to a greater extent on the left side but there is still evidence of it on the right.

Yes blood emitted via her orifices from her injuries but you try lying prone on the floor with your chin in the same direction as SC's and then insert your little finger into your nostril and you wil find the angle is 90 degrees from the horizontal meaning blood could not have emitted from her nostrils had she been lying prone. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #276 on: July 06, 2018, 08:50:19 PM »
Yes blood emitted via her orifices from her injuries but you try lying prone on the floor with your chin in the same direction as SC's and then insert your little finger into your nostril and you wil find the angle is 90 degrees from the horizontal meaning blood could not have emitted from her nostrils had she been lying prone.

Of course it could. Once her heart stopped her blood didn't hang in suspended animation, it would have started to drain down and if there was an outlet on the way, some of it would have found it's way through.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #277 on: July 06, 2018, 08:54:12 PM »
Of course it could. Once her heart stopped her blood didn't hang in suspended animation, it would have started to drain down and if there was an outlet on the way, some of it would have found it's way through.

Regardless of whether her heart was beating or not if her head was positioned as per soc image blood could not have travelled UP her nostril. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #278 on: July 06, 2018, 08:59:53 PM »
David if officers interfere with soc/victims and don't declare it it is a very serious offence.  You can listen to former det sup Mick Gradwell confirm such in 1 of the Guardian vids or might be the Tonight prog. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9524.msg441885.html#msg441885

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Caroline

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #279 on: July 06, 2018, 09:33:35 PM »
Regardless of whether her heart was beating or not if her head was positioned as per soc image blood could not have travelled UP her nostril.

It didn't travel up it travelled down.

Offline Myster

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #280 on: July 07, 2018, 05:36:46 AM »
David if officers interfere with soc/victims and don't declare it it is a very serious offence. You can listen to former det sup Mick Gradwell confirm such in 1 of the Guardian vids or might be the Tonight prog. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9524.msg441885.html#msg441885

I don't think MG was so specific about that Holly, only something about the investigation being below standard on the finding of the silencer about 13:00 minutes in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo

Also note that SM who was so gushing about a potential miscarriage has now parted company with JB and the campaign team... nuff said!

And don't you knock Sweden, or ABBA (they wrote some good toons and had two hotties), or IKEA (I have a few items although I got lost trying to find my way out), or Saab (nearly bought one once because it had a revolutionary heated driver's seat... you know what they say - "Warm goolies, Warm heart"... or I think that's how the saying goes). As for pickled herring, I guess it's a favourite dish of the the residents of HMP Wakefield...
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #281 on: July 07, 2018, 06:26:52 AM »
What is it with England pretending to be hipsters with their whispy beards?!!!!
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline puglove

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #282 on: July 08, 2018, 12:44:46 AM »
Jeremy Bamber support group.

Mike Tesko….horrible little sex pest.

NGB. Big bag of wind.

Lookout. Angry old woman.

Maggie. Keeps her head down.

That's about it, really.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #283 on: July 08, 2018, 12:46:05 AM »
And you wonder why he's still in prison?
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lookout from the Jeremy Bamber forum.
« Reply #284 on: July 09, 2018, 02:19:59 PM »
I don't think MG was so specific about that Holly, only something about the investigation being below standard on the finding of the silencer about 13:00 minutes in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo

Also note that SM who was so gushing about a potential miscarriage has now parted company with JB and the campaign team... nuff said!

And don't you knock Sweden, or ABBA (they wrote some good toons and had two hotties), or IKEA (I have a few items although I got lost trying to find my way out), or Saab (nearly bought one once because it had a revolutionary heated driver's seat... you know what they say - "Warm goolies, Warm heart"... or I think that's how the saying goes). As for pickled herring, I guess it's a favourite dish of the the residents of HMP Wakefield...

Yes MG was very clear that if officers alter a soc and don't disclose it is "Really, really serious".  At 8 min in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPRd912xv9M

I would point out though that this is with regard to SC's hand being moved which was actually disclosed at trial.  I have no idea why Rivlin (and Turner at 2002 appeal) didn't raise SC's head slightly raised against NB's bedside cabinet as per A/PS Woodcock's WS (and 2002 testimony from forensic scientist Martyn Ismail).  I'm assuming the defence at trial and appeal had access to the raid team WS's?  Puglove raised SC's position looking contrived and as a result I went and reread the raid team WS's again to see if their verbal testimonies re soc were compatible with soc image.

Funnily enough I had pickled herring the other day.  I read an article in the DM saying sauerkraut is good for you.    (I live by the DM).  Apparently it's the fermenting process.  Anyway I thought what am I going to eat with sauerkraut...didn't fancy a German sausage... so went for pickled herrings instead.  Quite a tasty little snack. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?