UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Admin on March 21, 2012, 05:02:16 PM
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In association with our sister site on Twitter we are going to list dozens of facts which the public should know and which have never previously been revealed to them on such a platform.
This list is continually updated...
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. He loved his family so much that weeks before the murders he trashed & robbed the family business at Osea Road Caravan Park. This was only revealed after the murders when he was forced to admit to the robbery after girlfriend Julie Mugford came forward as a witness against him.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. He told girlfriend Julie Mugford before the murders that 6 year-old twins Daniel and Nicholas Caffell would be better of dead rather than be reared by a mother who was crazy. In this he was referring to his adopted sister, Sheila Caffell who also died in the farmhouse that morning along with her adoptive parents Nevill and June Bamber.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. His real father rose to the rank of Major in the army and worked at Buckingham Palace for HM the Queen. His mother was a Bishops daughter who was unmarried at the time. She and the Major later married and have another family together.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. While 5 members of his family lay murdered Jeremy Bamber cooked and ate a full English breakfast in front of stunned police officers. This was one of the factors which raised suspicions about him at the time.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Bamber tried to flog nude pictures of his murdered sister Sheila Caffell round Fleet Street in London for a substantial sum before he was arrested. His friend Brett Collins approached several newspapers on his behalf but every one declined the offer. The London Times printed an article shortly thereafter referring to the offer which they felt was in rather poor taste and certainly newsworthy in itself given the circumstances.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Bamber's girlfriend, Julie Mugford, accompanied by Bamber's cousin, Ann Eaton, attended the morgue following the murders and made formal identification of the victims. Jeremy Bamber meanwhile avoided this event and made for the family solicitor to see what he had inherited.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. The murder weapon, an Anschütz 525 .22 calibre semi-automatic rifle, found lying on top of Sheila Caffell's body did not contain any ammunition when found by police on their entry to White House Farm on the morning of the murders.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Bambers twin 6-year-old nephews Nicholas & Daniel Caffell were shot several times as they slept in bed. One was shot in the back of the head and the other in the face as he sucked his thumb. A more cowardly murder one could never imagine.
#Jeremy_Bamber fact. On his second and final trip to New Zealand, Jeremy Bamber's mother June had to wire transfer him £2000 to enable his rapid departure from the country for some as yet unknown reason.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Suggestions that victim Sheila Caffell was somehow responsible for the murders and thereafter committed suicide are countered by the evidence. Both Sheila and her clothing were forensically clean of any gun oil or gun shot residue rendering any theory that she was involved simply preposterous. In addition, Sheila's manicured finger nails were in perfect condition and not as one would find with someone who had fired a rifle 25 times and reloaded it at least twice.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. The murderer had a physical encounter with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen of White House farm on the morning of the murders. The suggestion that petite framed Sheila Caffell could have attacked her well built father and beaten him to the ground with the rifle has little in common with reality. In any event, there was no forensic evidence to connect Sheila Caffell with any assault on her father.
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When people come to this forum after the doc., these facts need to be immediately accessible, Admin.
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When people come to this forum after the doc., these facts need to be immediately accessible, Admin.
Oh they will be Shona. We are getting reaction to them already with the odd bleedin heart lawyer throwing tantrums and questioning what real justice is?
We haven't had any reply from Mr Simon McKay though, not that we expected him to be able to answer our questions in any event. We have the feeling that if this goes pear-shaped on him his reputation will take a nose dive. We did ask him to explain why he believes Bamber to be innocent.
He obviously doesn't want to commit to a public arena.
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Nice work admin .... and as usual I agree with Shona all these facts need to be very clear in their own locked thread without dozens of posts between the facts .... there should be a seperate thread to comment on them.
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In association with our sister site on Twitter we are going to list dozens of facts which the public should know and which have never previously been revealed to them on such a platform.
This list is continually updated...
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. He loved his family so much that weeks before the murders he trashed & robbed the family business at Osea Road Caravan Park. This was only revealed after the murders when he was forced to admit to the robbery after girlfriend Julie Mugford came forward as a witness against him.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. He told girlfriend Julie Mugford before the murders that 6 year-old twins Daniel and Nicholas Caffell would be better of dead rather than be reared by a mother who was crazy. In this he was referring to his adopted sister, Sheila Caffell who also died in the farmhouse that morning along with her adoptive parents Nevill and June Bamber.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. His real father rose to the rank of Major in the army and worked at Buckingham Palace for HM the Queen. His mother was a Bishops daughter who was unmarried at the time. She and the Major later married and have another family together.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. While 5 members of his family lay murdered Jeremy Bamber cooked and ate a full English breakfast in front of stunned police officers. This was one of the factors which raised suspicions about him at the time.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Bamber tried to flog nude pictures of his murdered sister Sheila Caffell round Fleet Street in London for a substantial sum before he was arrested. His friend Brett Collins approached several newspapers on his behalf but every one declined the offer. The London Times printed an article shortly thereafter referring to the offer which they felt was in rather poor taste and certainly newsworthy in itself given the circumstances.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Bamber's girlfriend, Julie Mugford, accompanied by Bamber's cousin, Ann Eaton, attended the morgue following the murders and made formal identification of the victims. Jeremy Bamber meanwhile avoided this event and made for the family solicitor to see what he had inherited.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. The murder weapon, an Anschütz 525 .22 calibre semi-automatic rifle, found lying on top of Sheila Caffell's body did not contain any ammunition when found by police on their entry to White House Farm on the morning of the murders.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Bambers twin 6-year-old nephews Nicholas & Daniel Caffell were shot several times as they slept in bed. One was shot in the back of the head and the other in the face as he sucked his thumb. A more cowardly murder one could never imagine.
#Jeremy_Bamber fact. On his second and final trip to New Zealand, Jeremy Bamber's mother June had to wire transfer him £2000 to enable his rapid departure from the country for some as yet unknown reason.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Suggestions that victim Sheila Caffell was somehow responsible for the murders and thereafter committed suicide are countered by the evidence. Both Sheila and her clothing were forensically clean of any gun oil or gun shot residue rendering any theory that she was involved simply preposterous. In addition, Sheila's manicured finger nails were in perfect condition and not as one would find with someone who had fired a rifle 25 times and reloaded it at least twice.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. The murderer had a physical encounter with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen of White House farm on the morning of the murders. The suggestion that petite framed Sheila Caffell could have attacked her well built father and beaten him to the ground with the rifle has little in common with reality. In any event, there was no forensic evidence to connect Sheila Caffell with any assault on her father.
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Hi Admin.
I notice we have had a couple of new members join the forum recently and I am concerned they may be the same people who were on here the other night posting derogatory and slanderous comments about my husband.
I would ask you to consider banning these people from posting on the forum in order for me to take legal action.
IMO they have nothing to offer to the debate in Simon's case and are only here to disrupt and are too 'thick' to see the damage they are doing to Simon's good name.
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Hi There...
Please all write your letters to the CCRC and tell them all the pathetic tricks his Deluded supporters have tried on and the facts why we all think that this s..mbag should be behind bars for life!!
?{)(** 8@??)( 8((()*/
Keep up the good work.
Charlie.
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Nice work admin .... and as usual I agree with Shona all these facts need to be very clear in their own locked thread without dozens of posts between the facts .... there should be a seperate thread to comment on them.
Interesting mentality on this site. You insist Bamber is guilty, partly quoting the fact that the Courts have repeatedly found him so. That is acceptable proof to you of guilt. Fair enough....
Except when it comes to Sion Jenkins. Verdicts of the Court are only valid to you when they reinforce your previously held views.
Please explain how you can have this both ways?
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For me it isnt the fact that the court said GUILTY that makes me believe in Bambers guilt, but the evidence they took to court that got that guilty verdict.
I'm not well versed on the Jenkins case.
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Updated list.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. He loved his family so much that weeks before the murders at White House Farm he trashed & robbed the family business at Osea Road Caravan Park. This was only revealed after the murders when he was forced to admit to the robbery after girlfriend Julie Mugford came forward as a witness against him.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. He told girlfriend Julie Mugford before the murders that 6 year-old twins Daniel and Nicholas Caffell would be better of dead rather than be reared by a mother who was crazy. In this he was referring to his adopted sister, Sheila Caffell who also died in the farmhouse that morning along with her adoptive parents Nevill and June Bamber.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. Jeremy's real father rose to the rank of Major in the British Army and worked at Buckingham Palace for HM the Queen. His mother was a curate's daughter who was unmarried at the time of his birth. She and the Major later married and have another family together.
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. While 5 members of his family lay murdered Jeremy Bamber cooked and ate a hearty English breakfast in front of stunned police officers. This was one of the factors which raised suspicions about him at the time.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Bamber and his pal Brett Collins tried to flog nude pictures of his murdered sister Sheila Caffell around Fleet Street in London for a substantial sum before he was arrested. His friend Brett Collins approached several newspapers on his behalf but every one declined the offer. The Evening Times printed an article shortly thereafter referring to the offer which they felt was in rather poor taste and certainly newsworthy in itself given the circumstances.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Bamber's girlfriend, Julie Mugford, accompanied by Bamber's cousin, Ann Eaton, attended the morgue following the murders and made formal identification of the victims. Jeremy Bamber meanwhile avoided this event and made for the family solicitor to see what he had inherited.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. The murder weapon, an Anschütz 525 .22 calibre semi-automatic rifle, found lying on top of Sheila Caffell's body did not contain any ammunition when found by police on their entry to White House Farm on the morning of the murders.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Bambers twin 6-year-old nephews Nicholas & Daniel Caffell were shot several times as they slept in bed. One was shot in the back of the head and the other in the face as he sucked his thumb. A more cowardly murder one could never imagine.
#Jeremy_Bamber fact. On his second and final trip to New Zealand, Jeremy Bamber's mother June had to wire transfer him £2000 to enable his rapid departure from the country. According to witness statements made after the murders Jeremy Bamber had been involved in a jewellery robbery while in New Zealand.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. Suggestions that victim Sheila Caffell was somehow responsible for the murders and thereafter committed suicide are countered by the evidence. Both Sheila and her clothing were forensically clean of any gun oil or gun shot residue rendering any theory that she was involved simply preposterous. In addition, Sheila's manicured finger nails were in perfect condition and not as one would find with someone who had fired a rifle 25 times and reloaded it at least twice. Sheila's feet were also free of glass shards proving that she had not been downstairs at the time of the murders.
#Jeremy_Bamber facts. The murderer had a physical encounter with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen of White House farm on the morning of the murders. The suggestion that petite framed Sheila Caffell could have attacked her well built father and beaten him to the ground with a rifle has little in common with reality. In any event, there was no forensic evidence to connect Sheila Caffell with any assault on her father.
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Nice work admin .... and as usual I agree with Shona all these facts need to be very clear in their own locked thread without dozens of posts between the facts .... there should be a seperate thread to comment on them.
Interesting mentality on this site. You insist Bamber is guilty, partly quoting the fact that the Courts have repeatedly found him so. That is acceptable proof to you of guilt. Fair enough....
Except when it comes to Sion Jenkins. Verdicts of the Court are only valid to you when they reinforce your previously held views.
Please explain how you can have this both ways?
That's not correct Ben and welcome to the forum by the way.
Everyone on this forum has researched the Bamber case at length, there isn't a single avenue that has not been explored by us. Some of our members used to believe in his innocence but when confronted with the facts and the evidence they are now staunch believers in his guilt.
Do you know much about the case Ben...I would love to hear about your own experience of the justice system.
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Nice work admin .... and as usual I agree with Shona all these facts need to be very clear in their own locked thread without dozens of posts between the facts .... there should be a seperate thread to comment on them.
Interesting mentality on this site. You insist Bamber is guilty, partly quoting the fact that the Courts have repeatedly found him so. That is acceptable proof to you of guilt. Fair enough....
Except when it comes to Sion Jenkins. Verdicts of the Court are only valid to you when they reinforce your previously held views.
Please explain how you can have this both ways?
Although Sion Jenkins was tried three times none of the juries could come to a unanimous decision thus why the judge had to direct them to acquit him each time.
Sorry admin, off topic here.
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Please correct me if I am wrong but where is the evidence of innocence that we all hear different people crowing on about??? 8-)(--)
The amount of misinformation being banded around as fact by Bamber activists defies belief at times so no wonder some of the public are confused. All I will say is thank heavens the CCRC aren't swayed by such nonsense. 8@??)(
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Please correct me if I am wrong but where is the evidence of innocence that we all hear different people crowing on about??? 8-)(--)
The amount of misinformation being banded around as fact by Bamber activists defies belief at times so no wonder some of the public are confused. All I will say is thank heavens the CCRC aren't swayed by such nonsense. 8@??)(
I totally agree Jammy...everything you read which is posted on twitter about bamber includes the phrase that he is innocent yet no evidence is ever produce, not a slither or scrap of anything tangible. I have come across some deluded campaigners in my days working in legal circles but bambers cronies take the flipping biscuit. 8()(((@#
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Isn't there a 'cap' on how many times you can appeal?
I just wonder where this 'fresh' evidence keeps coming from.
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Isn't there a 'cap' on how many times you can appeal?
I just wonder where this 'fresh' evidence keeps coming from.
No limit but as Frank said the other day, just appealing for the sake of it without genuine new evidence will render any subsequent applications worthless.
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It just seems to be appealing for the sake of it, clogging the system up when 'real' miscarriages are trying to get their own appeals through and having to wait I think something like 6 years now.
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It just seems to be appealing for the sake of it, clogging the system up when 'real' miscarriages are trying to get their own appeals through and having to wait I think something like 6 years now.
Did you notice how the Lord Chief Justice got an appeal through for that SAS man the other day in record quick time. It just goes to show!!! 8(0(*
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Yes. The advice I was given some time back was if you got a sentance of 5 years or less, you'll end up doing the time before the appeal is heard, whether it's true or not I don't know, it seems to be.
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I have a small problem with the definition of true facts
According to the thread what is written below is a true fact
#Jeremy_Bamber true facts. He told girlfriend Julie Mugford before the murders that 6 year-old twins Daniel and Nicholas Caffell would be better of dead rather than be reared by a mother who was crazy. In this he was referring to his adopted sister, Sheila Caffell who also died in the farmhouse that morning along with her adoptive parents Nevill and June Bamber.
However how can anyone say with any certainty what Jeremy Bamber told his girlfriend, it would seem she had a motive to lie about what he said to her. As a girlfriend she would be considered as an non independent defence wittiness, and as a jilted ex girl friend she would be considered as a non independent prosecution wittiness
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Bamber also LIED about the supposed land deal. Bamber reckons Peter Eaton owed neville money for some land that Neville had bought, Vic has proven tonight that that is and was a lie. Neville bought the land and Peter was going to buy it off him at some point in the future. peter and Anne didnt owe neville a penny, they were not in debt to Neville as Jb claims, so JB's theory of being framed by the Eatons because they were in debt goes out of the window!
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Bamber also LIED about the supposed land deal. Bamber reckons Peter Eaton owed neville money for some land that Neville had bought, Vic has proven tonight that that is and was a lie. Neville bought the land and Peter was going to buy it off him at some point in the future. peter and Anne didnt owe neville a penny, they were not in debt to Neville as Jb claims, so JB's theory of being framed by the Eatons because they were in debt goes out of the window!
Blimey, Andy, you've managed to concentrate an entire day's "stuff" into one succinct post!! Not much wrong with your mental capacity!! (Back after World In Action.)
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Bamber also LIED about the supposed land deal. Bamber reckons Peter Eaton owed neville money for some land that Neville had bought, Vic has proven tonight that that is and was a lie. Neville bought the land and Peter was going to buy it off him at some point in the future. peter and Anne didnt owe neville a penny, they were not in debt to Neville as Jb claims, so JB's theory of being framed by the Eatons because they were in debt goes out of the window!
Blimey, Andy, you've managed to concentrate an entire day's "stuff" into one succinct post!! Not much wrong with your mental capacity!! (Back after World In Action.)
Hurry up!
My nose is running all over my face :(
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Bamber also LIED about the supposed land deal. Bamber reckons Peter Eaton owed neville money for some land that Neville had bought, Vic has proven tonight that that is and was a lie. Neville bought the land and Peter was going to buy it off him at some point in the future. peter and Anne didnt owe neville a penny, they were not in debt to Neville as Jb claims, so JB's theory of being framed by the Eatons because they were in debt goes out of the window!
That is correct, there was no loan thus nothing to pay back. Jeremy needed cash to pay the inheritance tax and thought that he would get it from Peter and Ann Eaton. I will come back to this at a later date but there is another issue which concerns me more.
Much has been argued about the order of the killings and how this effected the eventual distribution of the assets owned by Nevill and June. In every scenario that has been looked at, Sheila was the last to die thus everything should have gone to her kin, namely her natural parents. Please discuss.
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I find it very strange that Vidvic has come up up with this explanation of the land deal after years of it being discussed on the forum and Vidvic and Hartley have been present through all these discussions.
I personally would have to see proof of why this is being highlighted now just as Ngb has announced there will be a new application to the CCRC. This has also prompted Hartley to return to the forum to strengthen the arguments against Jeremy.
I also note that Bridget has now returned to the JB forum since being put in the position she had to resign her position as a managing agent at Osprey Court but is allegedly holding on to all the service charge monies and documents relating to the building. Looks like Bridget has forced a position of being taken to court herself.
I am always open to new information being discussed but also suspicious and look forward to hearing and seeing more proof on what Vidvic has bought up after all this time.
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She was given up for adoption so im not sure her natural parents would have been entitled, even though Sheila was intouch with her mother at the time of her murder.
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Bamber also LIED about the supposed land deal. Bamber reckons Peter Eaton owed neville money for some land that Neville had bought, Vic has proven tonight that that is and was a lie. Neville bought the land and Peter was going to buy it off him at some point in the future. peter and Anne didnt owe neville a penny, they were not in debt to Neville as Jb claims, so JB's theory of being framed by the Eatons because they were in debt goes out of the window!
That is correct, there was no loan thus nothing to pay back. Jeremy needed cash to pay the inheritance tax and thought that he would get it from Peter and Ann Eaton. I will come back to this at a later date but there is another issue which concerns me more.
Much has been argued about the order of the killings and how this effected the eventual distribution of the assets owned by Nevill and June. In every scenario that has been looked at, Sheila was the last to die thus everything should have gone to her kin, namely her natural parents. Please discuss.
I believe the way this was worked out was that jeremy was the ultimate beneficiary following the five deaths but since he was convicted of murder he was unable to benefit from his crime. In those circumstances the estate as left by nevill, June and Sheila would pass to the next in line. What ultimately happened was that jeremy's cousins on his mothers side and his second cousins on his fathers side inherited. Don't ask me how this was agreed because I don't know. I can say that it took some time and several court cases to resolve.
Remember also that White House farm was not part of the estate as Nevill was a tenant farmer and rented the house and farm.
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Jack , why dont the innocent side provide proof for their theories? The photo of sheila? The itemised phone bill? Take a look at the official website, it tells you on there that nevill purchased that land, and Ann and Peter had the option to purchase from him at a later date. Bamber has LIED. The Eatons had no reason to frame Bamber, they were not in debt to Nevill.
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I find it very strange that Vidvic has come up up with this explanation of the land deal after years of it being discussed on the forum and Vidvic and Hartley have been present through all these discussions.
I personally would have to see proof of why this is being highlighted now just as Ngb has announced there will be a new application to the CCRC. This has also prompted Hartley to return to the forum to strengthen the arguments against Jeremy.
I also note that Bridget has now returned to the JB forum since being put in the position she had to resign her position as a managing agent at Osprey Court but is allegedly holding on to all the service charge monies and documents relating to the building. Looks like Bridget has forced a position of being taken to court herself.
I am always open to new information being discussed but also suspicious and look forward to hearing and seeing more proof on what Vidvic has bought up after all this time.
I am also suspicious Jackie. There was a very good reason why John Eaton smacked Nevill over the land deal but I fear the whole truth will never be known. All we can really say is that John felt betrayed by what Nevill had done.
Vidvic may post about the family but he only gets told what they want him to hear. I have spoken with Janie about this some time ago but she says that it was much ado about very little. I cannot say much more about it other than to confirm that Peter didn't owe Nevill anything contrary to what has been suggested.
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Andrea are you talking of the alleged photo of Sheila with one gun shot? I have never discussed that or commented on it. I can understand if Mike says he saw a photo of Sheila on the bed but do not think that is relevant to guilt or innocence.
I also don't think the phone call situation will ever be proved so is irrelevant to any appeal.
I am just making the point that I find it strange that Vidvic is talking like this when he could have said this all many times before.
It will be interesting to see if Ngb comments because the thread was started after her left the forum
I like it when these arguments come up and are discussed and maybe you can get a final answer
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The photo of sheila on the bed, mike claims he had it, then he started a thread on how he lost it! But the mysterious Z managed to hand a copy to the CCRC. It doesnt exist, never did.
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Andrea I have only ever commented on there could be a photo of Sheila on the bed. None of us know where the bodies were moved around to because of the shoddy investigation
I dont think I have never commented on if I believe their is a photo taken with only one bullet wound
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Jack, do you believe sheila was shot once in the kitchen? Also, do you believe theres a possibility that the police fired the second shot that killed her?
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Andrea I have only ever commented on there could be a photo of Sheila on the bed. None of us know where the bodies were moved around to because of the shoddy investigation
I dont think I have never commented on if I believe their is a photo taken with only one bullet wound
Sheila wasn't moved Jackie. She was photographed where she fell.
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So were the others, David. Sheila certainly did not recieve the first shot in the kitchen.
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Bamber also LIED about the supposed land deal. Bamber reckons Peter Eaton owed neville money for some land that Neville had bought, Vic has proven tonight that that is and was a lie. Neville bought the land and Peter was going to buy it off him at some point in the future. peter and Anne didnt owe neville a penny, they were not in debt to Neville as Jb claims, so JB's theory of being framed by the Eatons because they were in debt goes out of the window!
Morning, Andy!! Wipe your nose!! Ralph bought that bit of land to save it from development, which any farmer/landowner worth his salt would do. In a rush, catch you later. XXX
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Andy where I am on this case and probably always will be is I don't ever see Jeremy capable of murdering his family. I don't think he had the guts and nobody has shown me PROOF he hated his family that much and he had no history of violence. I have asked him stuff so many times to.
From there I have to work backwards and maybe I have come to the conclusion it was either Sheila or a third party who knew WHF well enough to get in and force Neville to make that call to Jeremy.
If in fact Jeremy is innocent he has paid the price for his behaviour after the murders. I believe he was stupid then and continues to behave in a way that does not help himself but that does not make him a murderer.
I think the time has definately come for the CCRC to stop wasting money and reveal what is held under PII giving absolute reasons why certain information cannot be revealed and release the rest so there may be some conclusion.
No more PII no more CCRC applications
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I find it very strange that Vidvic has come up up with this explanation of the land deal after years of it being discussed on the forum and Vidvic and Hartley have been present through all these discussions.
I personally would have to see proof of why this is being highlighted now just as Ngb has announced there will be a new application to the CCRC. This has also prompted Hartley to return to the forum to strengthen the arguments against Jeremy.
I also note that Bridget has now returned to the JB forum since being put in the position she had to resign her position as a managing agent at Osprey Court but is allegedly holding on to all the service charge monies and documents relating to the building. Looks like Bridget has forced a position of being taken to court herself.
I am always open to new information being discussed but also suspicious and look forward to hearing and seeing more proof on what Vidvic has bought up after all this time.
I am also suspicious Jackie. There was a very good reason why John Eaton smacked Nevill over the land deal but I fear the whole truth will never be known. All we can really say is that John felt betrayed by what Nevill had done.
Vidvic may post about the family but he only gets told what they want him to hear. I have spoken with Janie about this some time ago but she says that it was much ado about very little. I cannot say much more about it other than to confirm that Peter didn't owe Nevill anything contrary to what has been suggested.
To be honest I'm surprised she knows anything about it at all as the family tend to keep these things low key. There were a lot of court cases over it all some years ago and the last thing they need is all of this being dragged up again. It didn't make for very great inter family harmony at the time and it is only recently that things have improved. Janie Robbo has always been quite charming to me when down at the boat club.
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Still a bit in the dark I'm afraid. How many Appeals were there, and on what grounds? Why is some of the evidence being kept secret?
I certainly got the impression that The Investigation was botched, which always leaves me suspicious.
What do PII and CCRC stand for? Thanks in advance.
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Still a bit in the dark I'm afraid. How many Appeals were there, and on what grounds? Why is some of the evidence being kept secret?
I certainly got the impression that The Investigation was botched, which always leaves me suspicious.
What do PII and CCRC stand for? Thanks in advance.
There were several appeals, but the most recent in 2002 and 2012 are documented here....
http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html (http://www.homepage-link.to/justice/judgements/Bamber/index.html)
http://www.crimeline.info/case/bamber-v-criminal-cases-review-commission (http://www.crimeline.info/case/bamber-v-criminal-cases-review-commission)
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PII is short for Public Interest Immunity.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-interest_immunity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-interest_immunity)
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CCRC - Criminal Cases Review Commission based in Birmingham....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Cases_Review_Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Cases_Review_Commission)
http://www.justice.gov.uk/about/criminal-cases-review-commission (http://www.justice.gov.uk/about/criminal-cases-review-commission)
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Thank you. I am a bit saturated at the moment, so will read them later.
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Andy where I am on this case and probably always will be is I don't ever see Jeremy capable of murdering his family. I don't think he had the guts and nobody has shown me PROOF he hated his family that much and he had no history of violence. I have asked him stuff so many times to.
From there I have to work backwards and maybe I have come to the conclusion it was either Sheila or a third party who knew WHF well enough to get in and force Neville to make that call to Jeremy.
If in fact Jeremy is innocent he has paid the price for his behaviour after the murders. I believe he was stupid then and continues to behave in a way that does not help himself but that does not make him a murderer.
I think the time has definately come for the CCRC to stop wasting money and reveal what is held under PII giving absolute reasons why certain information cannot be revealed and release the rest so there may be some conclusion.
No more PII no more CCRC applications
Jackie, if I may interject here for just a second. What you have said is simply not true. Bamber had a lengthy history of violence stretching back to his school days where he was widely known as a bully. Remind me Jackie who was it that twisted Julie's arm behind her back, so severely she couldnt operate it properly for hours after? Moreover, the reasons you have given as to why you think he may be innocent are, to be honest, rather strange. You stated that no proof of his violence has come to light that convinces you of his guilt and then state in defense of his innocence that you 'don't ever see Jeremy capable of murdering his family. I don't think he had the guts' I find that rather hypocritical and somewhat puzzling. Jackie you cannot have it both ways. You have been given scope to state your views and I respect them, but can you not see that you are convincing yourself of his innocence through nothing more than gut feelings and then in the same breath insisting that he cannot be guilty because it lacks any cogent proof. Now excuse me if I dont subscribe to your brand of innocence or guilt.
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I think Jackie's problem is that she cannot believe such a well presented lad could do such a thing. Unfortunately, history shows that murderers come from all ilks of society.
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You forgot the fact that his father didn't trust him to the point that he refused to give him keys to the house. The farm caretaker was given keys but not his own son.
Another fact worth mentioning is that his son did not own a gun he borrowed his father's guns when he wanted to shoot. This point is relevant to the issue of why would he call his son for help after Sheila shot him. Obviously he didn't have a gun to come over with to use to stop her.
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Re Sheila: the original police log of when they broke into the farmhouse stated that there were two bodies downstairs, one male and one female. Could it be that the subsequent change to there just being one body, was an attempt to cover up their own incompetence? Also the photo taken at gone 10am shows blood still flowing. Which it couldn't have been if she had died at 3am (or earlier). &%+((£
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Re Sheila: the original police log of when they broke into the farmhouse stated that there were two bodies downstairs, one male and one female. Could it be that the subsequent change to there just being one body, was an attempt to cover up their own incompetence? Also the photo taken at gone 10am shows blood still flowing. Which it couldn't have been if she had died at 3am (or earlier). &%+((£
Hello Pauline... welcome to the Forum.
The general consensus of those who believe Jeremy Bamber guilty was that only one body was seen through the kitchen window and that it was just a cursory glance by a TFU member, probably because they had been warned by JB beforehand that Sheila was familiar with the use of all weaponry inside the farm. So any firearms officer would be wary of poking his head in front of the window just in case Sheila took a pot shot. Nevill's body was kneeling prostrate and facing away from their view, so his bare legs and long grey hair covering his face made it appear that he was female, hence the confusion. It was simply an error in communication made by the call recipient back at the control centre having received a first message that the body was female, but later when the TFU broke in and confirmed it was a male, added an extra one to the list. So yes, they made a mistake.
The only way you could tell later that blood was flowing would be by a dated video recording rather than a still photo. Perhaps the blood trails appear to be flowing even if dry because of reflection caused by a camera flash... note the similar reflected shine from her necklace. Or if Sheila's head was moved slightly when she was examined for signs of life, then the large amount of blood still liquid in her mouth and throat could have been disturbed. In a different case, blood was still draining from the heads of the Rettendon three when lying on mortuary tables many hours after they were murdered.
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The blood that had trickled down Sheilas face was dry and had started to crack.
When the Dr came to confirm them dead he said they could have died at anytime the previous night.
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The blood that had trickled down Sheilas face was dry and had started to crack.
When the Dr came to confirm them dead he said they could have died at anytime the previous night.
Hi Andrea. From CoA:
38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night. The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.
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The blood that had trickled down Sheilas face was dry and had started to crack.
When the Dr came to confirm them dead he said they could have died at anytime the previous night.
I'm hopeless at assessing the photos but I recall Bridget pointing out that SC's upper wound in photo 1 (face on) appears dried and cracked. I think the blood looks wet due to lighting/photographic equip? It certainly appears different compared with photo 2.
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It's so obvious. You can see the reflection from the camera flash in a straight line through the two blood trails and her necklace. Contrary to what has been said before the first photo is the original (not enhanced), whereas the second has been reproduced maybe several times from the former, hence the poorer quality. In other words the dried blood is giving the appearance that it's wet, not cracked.
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I'm hopeless at assessing the photos but I recall Bridget pointing out that SC's upper wound in photo 1 (face on) appears dried and cracked. I think the blood looks wet due to lighting/photographic equip? It certainly appears different compared with photo 2.
I meant to add the dried and cracked blood appears apparent around SC's upper wound towards the left of the wound (face on)?
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I meant to add the dried and cracked blood appears apparent around SC's upper wound towards the left of the wound (face on)?
OK, just a short reply before I have to go.
Do you mean where the finger icon is pointing, because I don't see any cracking there? And what do you mean "face on"?
Something has been drawn left to right across that top wound trail twice, whether a thumb, finger or end of the moderator. It must have to create the two dark blobs at the ends. More blood then started to flow from the wound covering the tracks of the two wipes across. If the moderator, this could be another reason why it was cleaned (poorly) in addition to drawback or backspatter contamination, leaving blood traces in the knurling of the end piece.
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OK, just a short reply before I have to go.
Do you mean where the finger icon is pointing, because I don't see any cracking there? And what do you mean "face on"?
Something has been drawn left to right across that top wound trail twice, whether a thumb, finger or end of the moderator. It must have to create the two dark blobs at the ends. More blood then started to flow from the wound covering the tracks of the two wipes across. If the moderator, this could be another reason why it was cleaned (poorly) in addition to drawback or backspatter contamination, leaving blood traces in the knurling of the end piece.
Yes where the finger icon is pointing. Bridget highlighted this area as giving the appearance of being dried and cracked and I agreed. By face on I mean as I look at the image on the screen it is to the left but I thought you might come to my aid with a finger icon. No doubt EP moving the rifle to make it safe will have disturbed the blood to some degree.
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Re Sheila: the original police log of when they broke into the farmhouse stated that there were two bodies downstairs, one male and one female. Could it be that the subsequent change to there just being one body, was an attempt to cover up their own incompetence? Also the photo taken at gone 10am shows blood still flowing. Which it couldn't have been if she had died at 3am (or earlier). &%+((£
Hi Pauline and welcome to the forum.
Although I believe JB is in all probability innocent I am inclined towards going along with Myster's explanation of the original log/two bodies downstairs.
Dr Craig said the deaths could have occurred anytime the previous night. At court he stated that SC's body suggested to him that her wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. If it was obvious she had died much later than the other victims then surely he would have said as much? Especially if blood was visibly wet?
Even though professionals are trained to a high standard to manage such situations as WHF surely it is inevitable that some genuine errors/mistakes will be made? It would be very unusual if there were no errors/mistakes in communication and paperwork?
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Yes where the finger icon is pointing. Bridget highlighted this area as giving the appearance of being dried and cracked and I agreed. By face on I mean as I look at the image on the screen it is to the left but I thought you might come to my aid with a finger icon. No doubt EP moving the rifle to make it safe will have disturbed the blood to some degree.
I don't see that happening because the rifle wouldn't have been in contact with her neck. That said, the thumb swipe (if that's what it is) is interesting. Always remember too that the dark blobs are mirror images of each other, caused when her head was moved forward and then back again.
(http://i.imgur.com/KN4xf.gif)
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hi new to forum. firstly i am big fan of admin.john.and scipio usmc.you 3 are master sleuths.and have explained your points brilliantly. we can never be sure what happened that night or the next morning nor what bamber bought to the farm or took away with him after the murders.because he is a proven lier and thief.not to mention a convicted child killer .this story is all about greed .had the bambers been poor they would be alive now .and bamber would have been a career criminal.june was not a bible freak/as bamber have you think.she was a god fearing Christan with the highest of morals and principals as was Neville.they were pillars of society no one says a bad word about them only bamber.it was the dog and brave june and Neville that made sure his evil plan would not succeed.he is not a psychopath.but a cold calculated killer.i hope one day bamber will set a new Guinness world record as the longest serving British prisoner
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hi new to forum. firstly i am big fan of admin.john.and scipio usmc.you 3 are master sleuths.and have explained your points brilliantly. we can never be sure what happened that night or the next morning nor what bamber bought to the farm or took away with him after the murders.because he is a proven lier and thief.not to mention a convicted child killer .this story is all about greed .had the bambers been poor they would be alive now .and bamber would have been a career criminal.june was not a bible freak/as bamber have you think.she was a god fearing Christan with the highest of morals and principals as was Neville.they were pillars of society no one says a bad word about them only bamber.it was the dog and brave june and Neville that made sure his evil plan would not succeed.he is not a psychopath.but a cold calculated killer.i hope one day bamber will set a new Guinness world record as the longest serving British prisoner
I think it was probably more CC who painted a picture of June as being over zealous with regard to her Christian beliefs rather than JB.
The CoA doc also comments on June and religion.
14. June Bamber was also 61 years old. Religion had always played a strong part in her life. In her latter years her interest in this regard had to an extent come to dominate her thinking, to a point that might have been thought to be obsessive. In 1982, she received treatment at a psychiatric hospital in Northampton.
I agree noone seemed to have a bad word to say about NB but it appears some found June difficult for want of a better word.
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hi yes thats true.but as one gets old and starts thinking of death and taking the bible as the gods word they will become a bit weird .and every one is different.just over zealous.but no different than most old people
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Re Sheila: the original police log of when they broke into the farmhouse stated that there were two bodies downstairs, one male and one female. Could it be that the subsequent change to there just being one body, was an attempt to cover up their own incompetence? Also the photo taken at gone 10am shows blood still flowing. Which it couldn't have been if she had died at 3am (or earlier). &%+((£
Welcome to the forum Pauline.
When the police glanced through the kitchen window they saw what looked like a female lying with her head partly supported by a coal scuttle. This would have been reported to senior officers and passed to the control room. Later when entry was achieved this person was seen to be a male with long straggly hair. Thus the one female and one male found myth was born!
A victim lying on their back with gunshot wounds to their throat will always have partially congealed blood welled up in their mouth, throat and lungs. If you move this victim that blood can be released and looks like they are still bleeding.
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Thank you John, I have now seen the photo of Nevill in the kitchen, and see how it was an understandable mistake to make.
Poor man, after fighting for his family's lives, to end up like that is a terrible tragedy.
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Hi all
I'm a newbie here, and as I mentioned in the Introductions forum, I am genuinely undecided about the Bamber case. However I am very interested in the case, and I'm hoping to find out more about it. I know that there are some websites devoted to campaigning to prove his innocence, and equally many people who think he is guilty. For now, I need to keep an open mind.
However, just reading the list of facts about Bamber in this thread, a number of questions come to mind, and any information that anyone can offer on these, I would be very grateful for.
He loved his family so much that weeks before the murders he trashed & robbed the family business at Osea Road Caravan Park. This was only revealed after the murders when he was forced to admit to the robbery after girlfriend Julie Mugford came forward as a witness against him.
Was this crime reported to the police at the time? Is there a record of Bamber admitting to the robbery, and were any charges brought against him in connection with this?
His real father rose to the rank of Major in the army and worked at Buckingham Palace for HM the Queen. His mother was a Bishops daughter who was unmarried at the time. She and the Major later married and have another family together.
I'm not clear how this information is material to the murder case?
While 5 members of his family lay murdered Jeremy Bamber cooked and ate a full English breakfast in front of stunned police officers. This was one of the factors which raised suspicions about him at the time.
White House Farm was a crime scene. As soon as police had established it contained dead bodies, they would surely have followed standard practice, which is to seal off the scene, and only police and forensics personnel would have been allowed to enter. Surely Bamber could not have entered the house and cooked breakfast, if he had wanted to??
Bamber tried to flog nude pictures of his murdered sister Sheila Caffell round Fleet Street in London for a substantial sum before he was arrested. His friend Brett Collins approached several newspapers on his behalf but every one declined the offer. The London Times printed an article shortly thereafter referring to the offer which they felt was in rather poor taste and certainly newsworthy in itself given the circumstances.
Were the photos taken by Bamber? If not, who took them and do we know how Bamber came into possession of them? Is there a record of the Times article about this?
The murder weapon, an Anschütz 525 .22 calibre semi-automatic rifle, found lying on top of Sheila Caffell's body did not contain any ammunition when found by police on their entry to White House Farm on the morning of the murders.
I'm not sure of the point here. Whoever carried out the murders could have used up all the ammunition. It does not tell us anything about who the murderer is. Or is the implication that the Anschutz was not the real murder weapon?
Bambers twin 6-year-old nephews Nicholas & Daniel Caffell were shot several times as they slept in bed. One was shot in the back of the head and the other in the face as he sucked his thumb.
Again, how does this information indicate the identity of the murderer?
Thanks again for any information you can provide, and again, I emphasise that I have an open mind on this case.
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Hi all
I'm a newbie here, and as I mentioned in the Introductions forum, I am genuinely undecided about the Bamber case. However I am very interested in the case, and I'm hoping to find out more about it. I know that there are some websites devoted to campaigning to prove his innocence, and equally many people who think he is guilty. For now, I need to keep an open mind.
However, just reading the list of facts about Bamber in this thread, a number of questions come to mind, and any information that anyone can offer on these, I would be very grateful for.
He loved his family so much that weeks before the murders he trashed & robbed the family business at Osea Road Caravan Park. This was only revealed after the murders when he was forced to admit to the robbery after girlfriend Julie Mugford came forward as a witness against him.
Was this crime reported to the police at the time? Is there a record of Bamber admitting to the robbery, and were any charges brought against him in connection with this?
My understaning is that the family were suspicious that Jeremy Bamber was involved in the robbery and trashing at Osea Caravans but chose not to get the police involved. His girlfriend Julie Mugford was there when he carried out the crime and it was she who later communicated the fact to police. Only then did Jeremy Bamber admit to the cirme. He later appeared in court on charges relating to the robbery.
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His real father rose to the rank of Major in the army and worked at Buckingham Palace for HM the Queen. His mother was a Bishops daughter who was unmarried at the time. She and the Major later married and have another family together.
I'm not clear how this information is material to the murder case?
It is merely background information and helps readers to understand a little about Jeremy Bamber's family history.
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While 5 members of his family lay murdered Jeremy Bamber cooked and ate a full English breakfast in front of stunned police officers. This was one of the factors which raised suspicions about him at the time.
White House Farm was a crime scene. As soon as police had established it contained dead bodies, they would surely have followed standard practice, which is to seal off the scene, and only police and forensics personnel would have been allowed to enter. Surely Bamber could not have entered the house and cooked breakfast, if he had wanted to??
Jeremy Bamber didn't live at the farmhouse. His father Nevill Bamber bought a cottage in nearby Goldhanger and that is where Jeremy set up house with Julie Mugford. On the morning of the murders it was to that cottage that Jeremy returned with the police, it is there that he cooked a hearty breakfast and it is to there that the police brought Julie Mugford after collecting her in London.
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Bamber tried to flog nude pictures of his murdered sister Sheila Caffell round Fleet Street in London for a substantial sum before he was arrested. His friend Brett Collins approached several newspapers on his behalf but every one declined the offer. The London Times printed an article shortly thereafter referring to the offer which they felt was in rather poor taste and certainly newsworthy in itself given the circumstances.
Were the photos taken by Bamber? If not, who took them and do we know how Bamber came into possession of them? Is there a record of the Times article about this?
The nude photos were taken by Colin Caffell. Jeremy knew where to find them in Sheila's flat in Maida Vale in London. There is indeed a record of the Times article, I have posted it below.
Published 29 October 1986
(http://i.imgur.com/HqBg3.jpg)
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The murder weapon, an Anschütz 525 .22 calibre semi-automatic rifle, found lying on top of Sheila Caffell's body did not contain any ammunition when found by police on their entry to White House Farm on the morning of the murders.
I'm not sure of the point here. Whoever carried out the murders could have used up all the ammunition. It does not tell us anything about who the murderer is. Or is the implication that the Anschutz was not the real murder weapon?
I agree, this doesn't point to the murderer. For that you have to look at all the circumstantial evidence. In this case the evidence indicates who couldn't have been the killer and not who was. In a nutshell, the house was secured from the inside, only Jeremy Bamber knew how to get in and out after the doors had been locked. He blames his adoptive sister Sheila Caffell for the murders but the forensic and other evidence clears her. His former girlfriend gave evidence to the effect that he was planning to kill his family. Work the rest out for yourself.
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Bambers twin 6-year-old nephews Nicholas & Daniel Caffell were shot several times as they slept in bed. One was shot in the back of the head and the other in the face as he sucked his thumb.
Again, how does this information indicate the identity of the murderer?
Thanks again for any information you can provide, and again, I emphasise that I have an open mind on this case.
It doesn't identify the killer, see my last post.
Always glad to help and to provide any information on the case.
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great work john excellent posts 8((()*/