Author Topic: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann  (Read 1365579 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3660 on: August 27, 2014, 02:08:40 AM »
Maddie: British police returns to the Algarve in September
 
google translate from The Sol
http://www.sol.pt/noticia/113886

I wonder who are the 4 people that weren't questioned before?
Impossible to guess but here goes anyway.
If that suspicious conversation story reported in PT press is true, maybe SY have identified its location?
Or maybe the posters that SY put up in PDL in July, showing the two photofits, and worded in both english and portuguese, with a number to call, produced some calls?

Online Wonderfulspam

I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3662 on: August 28, 2014, 07:11:02 AM »
'They believe Madeleine was snatched by a foreigner no longer in Portugal.'

I too believe that Maddie was taken out of the apartment by a foreigner who left the country.

I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3663 on: August 28, 2014, 07:48:45 AM »
Excellent to see SY moving forward...they have to have evidence to make these ILORs

Offline Brietta

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3664 on: August 28, 2014, 01:58:46 PM »
The abductees who have managed to escape or who have been found suggest there is a bigger underlying problem. As well as those high profile cases such as Natasha’s et al there are children who were never on the radar to begin with and there must be children who don't even know they were stolen.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 06:11:02 PM by John »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline John

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3665 on: August 29, 2014, 01:17:35 PM »
Madeleine McCann police make new request to Portuguese authorities for help in hunt for missing girl
  • Metropolitan Police send latest international letter of request to Portugal
  • The move comes ahead of officers return to the Algarve next month
  • Madeleine went missing at the age of three while on holiday in 2007
  • It is believed British police may wish to question suspects in the case
  • Comes after search of wasteland not far from site of disappearance

Police probing Madeleine McCann's disappearance have formally petitioned for more help, Portuguese authorities have revealed. Another international letter of request has been received from Scotland Yard, Portugal's Attorney General's Office confirmed. The news comes as officers prepare for a new trip to the Algarve next month following ground searches for missing Madeleine and interrogations of four suspects earlier this summer. Officials have declined to comment on the content of the new letter of request.



British police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are set to return to Portugal
next month after petitioning authorities for more help.

It was not clear last night if public prosecutors on the Algarve coordinating the separate Portuguese inquiry into Madeleine's May 2007 disappearance have yet approved the request. Previous requests - which sparked digs at three sites in and around the Praia da Luz resort where Madeleine vanished as well as the police quizzes - were submitted in July last year and January, February and May this year. A spokesman for the Lisbon-based Attorney General's Office confirmed last night: 'During the last few weeks Public Prosecution Services received from the British authorities a new Letter of Request in the context of the investigations related to the disappearance of young Madeleine McCann.

'The content of the request presented by the British authorities is classified, therefore the Prosecutor General's Office have no comments on such matter.'

Reports at the weekend suggested British police working on Operation Grange - the new probe into Madeleine's disappearance - want to conduct interviews with more key suspects.

Read more...
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 06:09:12 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Brietta

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3666 on: August 29, 2014, 04:09:30 PM »
See we still have 'sources close to the investigation' putting their oar in; the final paragraph seems to confirm the accord between both sets of investigators.

Met police set for Portugal return in search for Madeleine
by Brendan de Beer, in News • 28-08-2014 14:30:00 • 0 Comments

Scotland Yard officers could return to Portugal as early as next month as part of the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of Madeline McCann.

Reports this week claim the development comes after weeks of negotiations between the British and Portuguese forces and has been described as a ‘make-or-break’ moment.
It is understood the officers have been granted permission to interview up to seven key suspects identified earlier this year – three of whom will be questioned for a second time.
In comments to The Portugal News on Thursday, the Attorney-General’s office in Lisbon said: “The Public Prosecutor’s Office in the past few weeks received a new international letter of request from British authorities with regards to investigations relating to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.”
This is the fifth such letter to be received by Portuguese authorities since last October.
Last month, British detectives admitted upon their return to the UK that “no evidence relating to Madeleine McCann had been identified.”
With questioning in the Faro’s Polícia Judiciária police headquarters of four suspects ending, sources close to the case told The Portugal News: “Unfortunately we are nowhere nearer to solving the case than we were seven years ago” though it appears the investigation is far from over.
This comes after the largest ever overseas deployment undertaken by British police last month in Praia da Luz in June, though British police did indicate that new lines of inquiry could be pursued in the coming months.
Metropolitan Police said in June that in addition to the activities which have now taken place “further requests are being compiled and will be submitted in due course.”
British police further explained that there was still “a substantial amount of work yet to be completed in the coming months.”
Questioned over whether relations between the two police forces have become strained over the past few months, sources here said: “Portuguese police have provided total support of British detectives as is requested by law and will continue to do so in the future.”
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/met-police-set-for-portugal-return-in-search-for-madeleine/32555
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline sadie

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3668 on: September 06, 2014, 01:46:34 AM »
Very balanced article for a change.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11078595/Madeleine-McCann-are-we-any-closer-to-knowing-the-truth.html
yep, generally I agree, it is well balanced.



However, one thing I noticed that was seriously wrong'

[Article snipped]
Later, the cadaver dog gave an alert inside a Renault car, hired by the McCanns 24 days after Madeleine went missing.
[snipped]

The dog in the car was the blood dog, Keela.   As far as we are aware, Eddie, the cadavar (and blood) dog did not enter the car.  The alert that we all saw on the video, within the car, was by Keela.

Therefore the alert within the car was NOT for cadavar but for blood.

No body carried in that car !

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3669 on: September 06, 2014, 10:18:34 AM »
Madeleine McCann: are we any closer to knowing the truth?

Ever since she disappeared in May 2007, the image of Madeleine McCann has remained burned on our national consciousness. How close are police to finding out the truth?

By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter

8:09PM BST 05 Sep 2014

In the seven years since Madeleine McCann went missing from a holiday apartment in Portugal, myriad theories about what happened to her have taken root, but only one fact remains uncontested: that she was reported missing at 10.14pm on the evening of Thursday, May 3, 2007.
 
It was at that point, when police were called, that the clock started ticking on the biggest missing persons investigation for decades, a search which remains very much active to this day.
 
Facts, the hard currency of any police investigation, have proved almost uniquely elusive; every sighting, every timing and every witness statement has been disputed in the years that have elapsed since.
 
Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann quickly came under suspicion by Portuguese police, a development that the couple are certain meant vital clues were missed in the first hours and days after Madeleine’s disappearance.
 
Every possible theory has been explored since then: that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile; that she was killed during a bungled burglary and her body dumped; that she was abducted by traffickers and sold to a childless couple; that she wandered out of the apartment and died in a tragic accident, and many more besides.

To date, however, not one shred of proof of what happened to Madeleine has been unearthed. The question of what happened to Madeleine would become not only a personal tragedy for the McCann family, but a national obsession in the UK and in Portugal.
 
Madeleine, of Rothley, Leicestershire, was on the penultimate day of her family holiday on the day she vanished. She had spent part of the day playing by the swimming pool in the Ocean Club resort, where the last known picture of her was taken at 2.29pm.

Reports of when she was last seen alive by independent witnesses vary, but she was still alive at around 6pm, when she and her parents went into their apartment at 5A Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva, where Madeleine and her two-year-old twin brother and sister were readied for bed.
 
The McCanns told police they put the children to bed at around 7pm, and that all three were asleep by 8.30pm, when they went for dinner at a tapas bar 50 yards across the pool from their apartment. There they met seven friends with whom they were on holiday.

The McCanns say checks were made on their children every half-hour, sometimes by other members of the party, comprising Dr Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner, from Exeter, Dr Matthew and Rachael Oldfield, from London, and David and Fiona Payne, from Leicester, together with Mrs Payne's mother Dianne Webster. Mrs Webster, however, reportedly told police that each couple was responsible for checking their own children.
 
Gerry McCann went to the apartment at 9.05pm, when all the children were sleeping soundly and Madeleine was still in her bed, he says.
 
The police in Portugal, however, have never accepted the McCanns’ evidence as undisputed. They initially regarded the McCanns as suspects, and believed the McCanns could have killed Madeleine any time after the last independent sighting of her at 6pm.
 
Dr Matthew Oldfield went into apartment 5A at 9.30pm, and noticed that Madeleine’s room seemed lighter than the others, as if the shutters had been partially opened. He could not be certain whether Madeleine was there.
 
Kate McCann was next to check on the children, at 10pm. She ran back to the restaurant moments later, saying Madeleine was missing. The McCanns and their friends made a quick search of the resort, but after finding no sign of Madeleine the police were called at 10.14pm.
 
The McCanns told police they had put Madeleine to bed with her pink comfort blanket and favourite soft toy, Cuddle Cat, and was wearing short-sleeved Marks & Spencer Eeyore pyjamas.

Crucially, however, the apartment was not initially treated as a crime scene, meaning around 20 people went in and out before it was sealed off, contaminating potential evidence. Roadblocks were not put in place until 10am the next day, border guards were not informed for hours and Interpol did not put out a global missing persons alert for five days.
 
It meant that the most crucial time of any missing persons investigation – the first 24 hours – were largely squandered, and police have been trying to catch up ever since. Yet potentially key sightings and artists’ impressions of suspects were kept from the public for years.
 
Mary and Martin Smith, from Ireland, told police they saw a man carrying a child matching Madeleine’s description at around 10pm on Rua da Escola Primaria, 500 yards from the McCanns’ apartment. He was heading towards the beach, did not look like a tourist and did not seem comfortable carrying the child, they said.
 
Their evidence was compelling, but it was only in October 2013 that two e-fit images of the man, compiled by police from descriptions given by Mr and Mrs Smith, were released by Scotland Yard to coincide with a BBC Crimewatch reconstruction of Madeleine’s disappearance. He remains a suspect.

There were also blind alleys. Jane Tanner, one of the tapas diners, told police that when she left the restaurant at 9.15pm to check on her own daughter, she saw a man carrying a small child, wearing pink pyjamas, in his arms.
 
For years afterwards, the mystery man would be a key suspect, if not the prime suspect, but in October 2013 the Metropolitan Police announced that a British holidaymaker who had been taking his daughter back to his apartment after picking her up from an evening crèche, had been identified as the man Miss Tanner had seen and ruled out of the inquiry.

The first person to become an “arguido”, or official suspect, was Robert Murat, a local property consultant, whose home was searched 12 days after the disappearance. He was formally cleared of suspicion in 2008 and won £600,000 in libel damages from 11 British newspapers.
 
The Portuguese Police, however, were suspicious of the McCanns from the beginning, partly due to a clash of cultures. They could not believe that parents would leave their children unattended, and did not approve of the McCanns’ use of the media to raise the profile of the case, in a country where secrecy is the hallmark of all police investigations.
 
The arrival of two British sniffer dogs in Portugal in July 2007 only hardened that belief. One dog was trained to sniff out traces of human blood, the other was trained to sniff out the scent of dead bodies. Both dogs were taken to several locations connected to the investigation, and gave alerts only in apartment 5A. Later, the cadaver dog gave an alert inside a Renault car, hired by the McCanns 24 days after Madeleine went missing.
 
DNA tests on samples taken from the car proved inconclusive, but the Portuguese police wrongly told journalists they were a “100 per cent match” for Madeleine.
 
The Portuguese police came up with the theory that Madeleine had been killed by her parents by accident, possibly by being given an overdose of a sedative to make her sleep, that they had hidden the body, faked her abduction and then used the hire car weeks later to move her body to a burial location.
 
In early September 2007, according to Kate McCann, she was told by the Portuguese police that if she admitted that Madeleine had died in the apartment and she had hidden her body she might only serve a two-year sentence and Gerry McCann would not be charged at all. On September 7 the couple were both made arguidos.
 
Goncalo Amaral, the chief inspector who had been in charge of the case, resigned in 2008 to write a book alleging that Madeleine had died in an accident in the apartment and the McCanns had faked the abduction. The McCanns sued him for libel, with the court expected to make its decision late in 2014.
 
In July 2008 the Portuguese attorney general announced that the McCanns were no longer suspects and the investigation was closed. The McCanns hired private investigators to carry on the search, but it was not until May 2011 that Theresa May, the Home Secretary, announced that Scotland Yard would review the evidence in the case, which had until then been the responsibility of Leicestershire Police, working with the Portuguese authorities.
 
In July 2013 Operation Grange, the review of the available evidence, became a full-blown criminal inquiry, and Scotland Yard said it was concentrating on a “criminal act by a stranger”.
 
The Yard announced it was looking into possible links between Madeleine’s disappearance and bogus charity collectors who were knocking on doors in Praia da Luz at the time. Between 3.30pm and 5.30pm on the day in question there were four separate sightings of men who said they were collecting money for an orphanage. British detectives believe men whose photofits they released in 2013 may have been engaged in reconnaissance for a pre-planned abduction or for burglaries, in keeping with the theory that Madeleine may have been killed by a burglar she disturbed.

Scotland Yard also said in 2013 it was eager to trace a blond-haired man who had been seen loitering in the area on April 30 and May 2, looking at apartment 1A. He was described as “ugly” with a spotty complexion and a large nose. Two blond-haired men were seen on the balcony of the empty apartment 5C, two doors from 5A, at 2.30pm on the day of the disappearance. Blond men were seen again near 5A at 4pm and 6pm that day, and at 11pm that night. Following the appeal on Crimewatch, the Portuguese police re-opened their own investigation.
 
Scotland Yard officers travelled to Portugal in 2014 to interview four suspects and carried out searches of the area around the apartment using ground-penetrating radar. One of the men who was interview has since been eliminated from the inquiry, but the other three men remain arguidos.
 
The British officers questioned them on suspicion of being part of a burglary gang that panicked after killing Madeleine during a bungled break-in. They all protested their innocence and were released without charge.
 
Another suspect was Euclides Monteiro, a convicted burglar with a drug habit, who had been sacked from the Ocean Club in 2006. Mobile phone tracking showed he had been in the area on the night of the disappearance, and police believe he may have been burgling apartments there to fund his drug addiction. He died in a tractor accident in 2009.
 
In March 2014 Scotland Yard announced that a lone intruder sexually assaulted five girls aged between seven and 10 in the Algarve between 2004 and 2006. The man, who has never been caught, was said to have a “very, very unhealthy interest” in young white girls.
 
The four incidents, one of which involved two girls, were among 12 in which men had entered holiday accommodation in the area, including two incidents in Praia da Luz. The force also said it was looking at 38 “people of interest” and were researching the backgrounds of 530 known sex offenders, including 59 regarded as high interest.
 
Kate and Gerry McCann remain convinced their daughter is alive and that they will one day be reunited. The hunt to find her continues.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11078595/Madeleine-McCann-are-we-any-closer-to-knowing-the-truth.html
I stand with Putin. Glory to Mother Putin.

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3670 on: September 07, 2014, 08:56:12 AM »
Madeleine McCann hunt slowed by Portuguese court chaos

SCOTLAND Yard’s probe into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is being held up because of chaos in the Portuguese legal ­system, the Sunday Express has learned.

By: James Murray
Published: Sun, September 7, 2014

Frustrated detectives want to quickly press ahead with their investigations and have sent a fifth letter of request detailing their requirements to legal chiefs in Portugal.

The process is being bogged down because of major changes in the way justice is delivered.

In an attempt to improve the ­service, 20 courts have closed creating a huge backlog of cases and a nightmare for administrators.

Trials are being held up as vast amounts of documents are moved all over the country in a bid to streamline the service. So government lawyers are giving priority to running trials and urgent cases.

A legal official in Portugal said: “The system is a mess, which is causing a huge political row between the right-of-centre government and the socialist opposition.

“This all means that Maddie is taking a low priority because all the effort is going on keeping the courts running. There is also a new prosecutor in Portimao on the Algarve who is having to be fully briefed on scores of cases, including Madeleine’s, and that all takes time.

“There are delays but people are working extra hours to try to get everything moving again.”

It is understood that the Yard detectives have requested to do further work on the background of three arguidos, or suspects, and several other people they believe could have important information.

Yard officers can sit in on interviews but they have to be conducted by Portuguese ­detectives.

They are now anxiously awaiting the formal legal response to their request before they can plan their next moves.

The hold-up is the latest problem to affect the work to find the youngster who, then aged three, vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve in May 2007.

Last week details emerged about a Home Office report which showed British police forces helping with the search for Madeleine hampered the Portuguese investigation.

So many UK agencies were keen to be seen to be helping, it created a “sense of chaos and competition”.

That damaged relations with Portuguese police and had a long-term ­negative effect, according to the unpublished findings of Jim Gamble, former head of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre.

Commissioned by former home secretary Alan Johnson in 2009, the report was ­delivered the following year and led to the Met Police reopening the ­investigation into the disappearance.

The Home Office, which would not release the report under Freedom of Information laws, declined to ­comment.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/507849/Madeleine-McCann-hunt-slowed-by-court-chaos

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  • Guest
Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3671 on: September 07, 2014, 06:26:06 PM »
I'll let the legendary SY go first. After all it's their case and I can't track Smithman's mobile unfortunately in order to find Maddy.
Scotland Yard aren't in the business of writing books.  But you raise a good point and that is that you don't have all the information at your disposal, perhaps this is why your conclusions do not match those of the Met, who DO have access to those involved and ALL the information gathered by police and PIs. 

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3672 on: September 07, 2014, 09:41:56 PM »
Scotland Yard aren't in the business of writing books.  But you raise a good point and that is that you don't have all the information at your disposal, perhaps this is why your conclusions do not match those of the Met, who DO have access to those involved and ALL the information gathered by police and PIs.

Either am I - my theory is documented on this forum from my posts. The Met's job is to investigate all possible leads to end up at one.  But they need to find Maddy or at least find clues/evidence to where she was hidden by Smithman on 3 May.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 09:46:25 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3673 on: September 08, 2014, 11:45:23 AM »
More "revelations" in the British media

Today (Sunday) saw Sky News once again heavily feature new ‘revelations’ from the soon-to-be-released book Looking for Madeleine, written by Pulitzer prize finalist Anthony Summers and his fourth wife, investigative journalist Robbyn Swan.

But as the ‘revelations’ revealed themselves to be facts in the public domain since at least 2009, former PJ police inspector Carlos Anjos has penned a damning article claiming the objective of the current Scotland Yard investigation into Madeleine’s seven-year disappearance has “never been to find out what happened to Maddie”.

Instead, he maintains, it has “always been to remove suspicions of the McCanns”.

Concentrating solely on facts, the only clear truth coming out of today’s stories is that the ‘revelations’ in Looking for Madeleine are “nothing new” - and that Sky news appears to be doing one heck of a PR job.

As a commentator who has followed the mystery closely since day one confided: “I doubt if Summers and Swan would call them revelations, but we´ll soon see”.

Looking for Madeleine is due to go on sale on Tuesday September 11, and certainly hundreds if not thousands of readers are eagerly waiting to read it.

A former British policeman told us today: “Will it address Gerry McCann’s change of story about his point of entry? Will it address Kate’s change of story about the curtains? Will it address their telling all the relatives that the shutters were smashed open? Will it give a coherent scenario which includes all the known facts? Will it address the dogs’ alerts over items associated with the McCanns and to no others?”

According to Amazon, “award-winning authors Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan have produced the first independent, objective account of the case” and have demonstrated that “speculation that the McCann’s played a role in their daughter’s fate” is unfounded.

Cataloguing the “string of sexual assaults and burglaries” that had been reported in the Algarve before Madeleine went missing, Anthony Summers is quoted by Sky News as suggesting Kate and Gerry McCann should have been warned by their tour operators Mark Warner Ltd when they checked in for their family holiday at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz at the end of April, 2007.

"Had there been a warning note in the apartment, do we think the McCanns would have left the patio door unlocked on the night they went to the other side of the pool to have dinner away from their children?

"One would be tempted to think they would make sure everything was firmly locked up."

As the Sky news report repeats itself throughout the day, elsewhere in the Portuguese media Carlos Anjos, currently president of the Commission for the Protection of Victims of Crimes, writes at length on his theory that multi-million pound police investigation Operation Grange has always set out to clear the McCann parents of any suspicions in their daughter’s disappearance.

“One of the doubts that persist is understanding why the British police have insisted in repeating PJ police investigations, and have never tried to effect the only one the PJ did not do: the reconstruction”, he explains - stressing that the much-publicised BBC Crimewatch programme that purported to reconstruct the events leading up to Madeleine’s disappearance was a “travesty” of the facts.

Addressing the alerts to blood traces and cadaver odours in the family’s apartment thrown up by sniffer dogs Eddie and Keela in 2007, Anjos writes: “I believe that these two dogs, seven years on, are either dead, under lock and key, or have certainly been retired from police duty as a result of their work in Portugal”.

It is a sweeping statement, with apparently no proof to back it up.

Swan, in interview with Sky News, points out that cadaver dog alerts always require the back up of solid forensic evidence - which, in this case, has not been forthcoming.

In other words, today’s ‘revelations’ and media stories, both here and abroad, have just added to all the others swirling in the vortex of questions about what really happened to Madeleine McCann.

With no ‘light at the end of the tunnel’ likely as a result of Summers and Swan’s new book, there is nonetheless an apparent “positive note” in conclusion.

According to the Sky News report: “Quoting American statistics, it (the book) says that only 4% of missing children of Madeleine’s age are not located, and more than half of them - 56% - are recovered alive”.

Meanwhile, Carlos Anjos concludes his article in today’s Domingo supplement of Correio da Manhã with the only firm conviction of which he says he has “no doubt”:
“The English (police) will stop (their investigation) on the day in which the Portuguese authorities say: enough. And, on this day, the British police will say they did not discover what happened (to Madeleine) because the Portuguese authorities did not let them”.

http://portugalresident.com/more-revelations-in-the-british-media
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Latest news on the search for Madeleine McCann
« Reply #3674 on: September 08, 2014, 12:00:08 PM »
A former British policeman told us today: “Will it address Gerry McCann’s change of story about his point of entry? Will it address Kate’s change of story about the curtains? Will it address their telling all the relatives that the shutters were smashed open? Will it give a coherent scenario which includes all the known facts? Will it address the dogs’ alerts over items associated with the McCanns and to no others?”


There is only one theory that does.
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