Jemmied Shutters ? A Badly Told Story ?

[faithlilly]

@ Eleanor

If Gerry had already lifted the shutters from outside why would he assume they needed to be jemmied to gain entry and of course there was no sign of them being broken.

[faithlilly]

@ gilet

You have the quotes requested and I'm sure you are quite able to read. Unless of course you want them to give you the quotes in person ?

[gilet]

@ Eleanor

If Gerry had already lifted the shutters from outside why would he assume they needed to be jemmied to gain entry and of course there was no sign of them being broken.

@ Martha

The only problem with your theory is by the time the McCanns told their family/friends that the windows had been broken/jemmied Gerry had already, we are told, found that the shutters were easy to open from the outside and there was no need to force them.

It would appear that you are either simply making a presumption that Gerry lifted the shutters before he phoned or texted people in the UK or are you telling us that is a fact?

If you are claiming this as a fact please give a link to the information.  If it is just your presumption then please make that clear because debate is impossible without facts.

[Eleanor]

@ Eleanor

If Gerry had already lifted the shutters from outside why would he assume they needed to be jemmied to gain entry and of course there was no sign of them being broken.

I don't know at precisely what time Gerry attempted to lift the shutter.  He was almost certainly trying to see if it was possible.  A dispute about how it was done is pointless.  We know that it can be done, with or without a jemmy.

[debunker]

I donot usually do this sort ofdiscussion as I thinkit is a waste of energy, but I looked at your cites and found this which I did not know:

"The window shutters, which had been closed since we arrived on Saturday, were open along with the window. They can be opened from the outside."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddy-3-goes-missing-472340

So let us look into Kate's mind. All week she has believed that these shutters which have always been closed ( and probably assumed locked) are found t OK be open for thefirst time. Immediate reaction- someone jemmied them.

THe fact thatthey had not been opened all week suddenly explains a lot!

[gilet]

@ gilet

You have the quotes requested and I'm sure you are quite able to read. Unless of course you want them to give you the quotes in person ?

No. You claim there are four or more people who have made specific comments about the windows. Who are those people?

Just name them and then we know who we are talking about. Giving a link to a very long page with a host of names on it is either laziness on your part or an indication you cannot actually name those people.

[debunker]

@ gilet

You have the quotes requested and I'm sure you are quite able to read. Unless of course you want them to give you the quotes in person ?

IT is good forum manners to not only give the URL but also either a quote or some indication of where the information is.

[gilet]

@ Eleanor

If Gerry had already lifted the shutters from outside why would he assume they needed to be jemmied to gain entry and of course there was no sign of them being broken.

I don't know at precisely what time Gerry attempted to lift the shutter.  He was almost certainly trying to see if it was possible.  A dispute about how it was done is pointless.  We know that it can be done, with or without a jemmy.

But Faithlilly tells us specifically that the shutters were opened by Gerry from the outside before he contacted people in the UK.

@ Martha

The only problem with your theory is by the time the McCanns told their family/friends that the windows had been broken/jemmied Gerry had already, we are told, found that the shutters were easy to open from the outside and there was no need to force them.

Unfortunately as per... she gives no evidence to back up this rather crucial claim of hers.

If it is true then it matters. If it is not true then the question in the opening post of this thread is completely redundant.

[faithlilly]

@ debunker

Except where the pages indicated by the poster happens to about something else entirely.

[gilet]

@ debunker

Except where the pages indicated by the poster happens to about something else entirely.

Please simply name the four people and then I can search that page for their comments.

Please just give the evidence you have for claiming that Gerry opened the window before contacting his family/friends or admit it is supposition on your part.

Till then you are delaying the debate on your topic by your refusal to even tell us who we are supposed to be looking at.  Are we supposed to simply guess who the four people are and whether you are telling the truth about Gerry?

[faithlilly]

@ gilet

Just for you as comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point :

Jill Renwick, Trish Cameron, John Corner and Brian Healy. Of course there are more but that should be enough to be going on with.

[faithlilly]

@ gilet

From Kate's book :

'In the children’s room, Gerry lowered the shutter at the open window. Rushing outside, he made the sickening discovery that it could be raised from this side, too, not just from inside as we’d thought. Gerry, David, Russell and Matt split into pairs and dashed around the adjacent apartment blocks, meeting back at our flat within a couple of minutes. Just after ten past ten, Gerry asked Matt to run to the Ocean Club’s twenty-four-hour reception to get the staff to call the police.'

From Trish Cameron's police statement :

'I remember hearing about Madeleines disappearance by phone on the night of 3rd May 2007. I usually go to bed late but I was particularly tired that night and went to bed early. I was woken by the phone ringing at about 23.30'

[Eleanor]

@ gilet

Just for you as comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point :

Jill Renwick, Trish Cameron, John Corner and Brian Healy. Of course there are more but that should be enough to be going on with.

Were any of these people in Portugal at the time?  Not that I consider "Jemmied"  to be important.  It is a turn of phrase.  Those shutters could be opened from outside.

[gilet]

@ gilet

Just for you as comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point :

Jill Renwick, Trish Cameron, John Corner and Brian Healy. Of course there are more but that should be enough to be going on with.

Thank you, that wasn't too difficult now was it?

Even if Gerry or Kate had phoned or texted just a couple of these people before that happened it is very likely (don't you think) that the message would have been passed around in the UK between family and friends.  Why do you say in your opening post that none of these people had any contact with each other? Do you have any evidence for that or are you simply guessing?  Personally, I would have thought that with that kind of news the phones would be red hot between every family member and friend who could be informed.

However now I have some names at least I can read what they said while you find the evidence.

I await the evidence that none of the people contacted each other in the UK because such phoning (very likely in my view) would completely demolish the point you are making in your opening post.

[gilet]

@ gilet

Just for you as comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point :

Jill Renwick, Trish Cameron, John Corner and Brian Healy. Of course there are more but that should be enough to be going on with.

Were any of these people in Portugal at the time?  Not that I consider "Jemmied"  to be important.  It is a turn of phrase.  Those shutters could be opened from outside.

Jemmied is a turn of phrase as you say. It has various tones of meaning in different parts of the UK I believe, from opening something that is locked merely by pushing with a blunt instrument to using extreme force and a metal bar to gain entry. 

As described before by another poster the scenario is quite simple, I believe.

The window is open which it clearly should not be as it was left closed. Gerry goes out, finds that with minimal force the shutter can be "jemmied" open from the outside even though he believed that the closing mechanism on the inside effectively locked it. It had been forced open in his view. Most people would think the same if the window on their property had been opened without their permission.

He then phones home and to other people using the term jemmied perfectly correctly. Those people use the word precisely because they only had Gerry's comment to go on and had not been to PDL. Others in the UK were given the same story by word of mouth between each other because I believe that they would have contacted each other given that a child of the family or of their friends was missing. I know I would be phoning like mad to find information.

Now I will look at precisely what the people you have named for me actually said.