This is the full transcription
Of last night's interview with Goncalo Amaral on Tv
Anchor - After CMTV screened a reconstitution about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, there were many reactions, that multiplied themselves, mainly because of the various contradictions in the witnesses’ statements.
Voiceover – The case dates back to the 3rd of May of 2007. Six years later, several inconsistencies and contradictions are counted, which contribute to the mystery surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine. After the screening of CMTV’s reconstruction relating to the little girl’s disappearance, there were many reactions that multiplied themselves, mainly about the various contradictions that were raised.
One of the inconsistencies has to do with the time of the visit that was done by a friend of the McCann couple. David Payne would have met Gerry at 6.30 p.m., and only afterwards went to see Kate. Until today, it is not known how long the visit took: According to Gerry, Payne was at the location for over half an hour; according to Kate, the visit lasted little over 30 seconds.
Gonçalo Amaral – This is a figure that, I use to say, that is enigmatic, and who was not well investigated. Not a lot is known about this person.
Voiceover – A mysterious man with a profile that is linked to indications of inadequate behaviours towards children. He even used to bathe the daughters of the friends that he spent holidays with.
To CMTV, Gonçalo Amaral and Francisco Moita Flores, former Judiciary Police inspectors, state that this is one of the gaps in the process.
Moita Flores – It is strange, in a group of friends, that one friend bathes the other friends’ children. And that all of this is natural, and nobody questions this from the investigation’s point of view.
Gonçalo Amaral – What weight did it have in the disappearance, if it had any weight at all, and what was going on there with that individual. One is this one, the 30 minutes or the 30 seconds, what he went there to do. The other one is the fact that he always cared to bathe the other people’s daughters.
Voiceover – There is even a concrete episode, which took place on the island of Mallorca, in 2005. David Payne, in the company of Gerry McCann, would have been seen making obscene gestures, while referring to Maddie.
Gonçalo Amaral – Then there is the other moment, that of the obscene gestures he made, in Spain, in Mallorca, where there is a denunciation in May 2007, ten days after the disappearance, by another doctor, who was also on holidays, who knows him and tells the English police about said obscene gestures in the presence of the father.
Voiceover – For Eduardo Dâmaso, joint editor at Correio da Manhã, these indications should have been explored.
Eduardo Dâmaso – All of those indications are much stronger to explore, that enigma that is installed within that group, than the thesis of the abductor. The feeling that I have is –
Voiceover – Some statements by Gerry McCann are also contradictory. To the police, Maddie’s father told different versions about the way that he entered the Ocean Club apartment at 9 p.m. In a first statement, Gerry said he had entered through the front door; later, he changed the statement and said he had entered through the back window. Despite everything, the key was inside the apartment.
For the former Judiciary Police inspector Carlos Anjos, the change in the depositions is an attempt by Gerry to adjust to the facts.
Carlos Anjos – I think he has no certainty whatsoever. That is the big problem. And hence the difficulty, the contradictions they had, all of the contradictions they had, which were verbalised when they gave statements, even the changing of depositions… We at the police use to say that when the depositions start to be changed, it’s an attempt by the witness to adjust the deposition to the fact.
Voiceover – Another inconsistency has to do with the visit of another friend of the couple to the Ocean Club apartment. Matthew Oldfield entered the room, looked to where Maddie and her siblings were. Later on, he said he wasn’t sure whether or not the little girl was in the apartment.
Eduardo Dâmaso – We return to another aspect which, from my point of view, proves that all the indications that exist, which point towards an enigma that is installed within that group, is much stronger than what exists about the possibility of an abduction.
Voiceover – Another question that remains unanswered is the place where Gerry was at 10 p.m. Two Tapas Bar employees said that Gerry was not at the restaurant. According to Gonçalo Amaral, there are only three moments that the authorities are able to locate in time. This is not one of them.
Gonçalo Amaral – As far as accurate times are concerned, there are only three: The time at which they pick up Maddie from the crèche, which is at 5.30 p.m., the time of the payment at the restaurant by the Irish family, which is at 9.22 or 9.27 p.m., and the time of the phone call to GNR, which is at 10.47 p.m. From there on, nothing is certain.
Voiceover - Contributing to the mystery of Gerry’s location at 10 p.m., a statement from a family of Irish tourists, four adults and five children, appears. According to the Smiths, that evening, the family left Kelly’s Bar and headed home at around 10 p.m. Five minutes later, Kate raises the alarm to the disappearance. At the same time, the family crosses ways with a man that carried a blonde child, aged approximately four, wearing a pink pyjama.
Martin Smith, one of the group’s members, gives the police a detailed description. Four months later, already in the United Kingdom, the Smith family sees images of Gerry McCann carrying one of his children. When he sees the image on television, Martin remembers the same man that he had seen in Praia da, Luz.
The denunciation was made to the Judiciary Police and the PJ decides to bring him to Portugal. At that time, Gonçalo Amaral, the coordinator, is removed from the investigation, and the new coordinator, Paulo Rebelo, considers that the trip of the Irishman to Portugal is useless.
Six years later, Gonçalo Amaral remains certain that it is important to listen to the witnesses’ statement.
Gonçalo Amaral – It makes all kind of sense to even bring him, and the family, it’s 3 or 4 people more, to Portugal, even to understand how long they took after leaving the Dolphins restaurant, how long they remained in Kelly’s bar, because there is no payment, the payment was not made with a card, we found out the exact time of the payment, not the exit from the restaurant, through the payment, because the payment was made with a bank card. At the bar, it was made in cash, so we don’t know. We don’t know how long they took having their drinks. We don’t know at what time the sighting takes place. It would have been around ten, a bit earlier, a bit later, at around that time, we don’t know exactly at what time it was.
Voiceover – For the former Judiciary Police inspector, the question of the e-fit that appeared at the time ended up taking importance away from the deposition.
Gonçalo Amaral – This family, which is not only one person, says that the person that they saw that night is a certain person. They say it is. Then they say it’s 80%. And then the e-fit – someone appears that looks like a certain person. While they never said it was a person that looked like Gerald McCann. The e-fit has that effect, the effect of evaluating the statement itself.
Voiceover – These are contradictions and inconsistencies that remain unanswered to this day. And adding to all of these questions, a new issue appears That of the crime of exposure or abandonment [child endangerment], that would have been committed by Kate and Gerry McCann when they left Maddie alone during the night.
Moita Flores – You can be absolutely certain that if this couple was Portuguese, the Public Ministry would have immediately triggered the child protection measures against them. Have no doubts about that. Because in our culture, this is not reasonable nor explainable. And I don’t know if I can even be explained under the light of the Anglo-Saxon culture.
Rui Pereira – At the beginning, the McCanns were obviously suspected of a crime of exposure of abandonment. Obviously. It is evident that it was not easy to make them arguidos right away. Why? Because investigators are also human. And the most immediate sentiment that was experienced was that of a certain compassion towards the parents.
Moita Flores – I understand, with some effort, but I understand that it’s a cultural trait that is different from ours, to leave children far away from the place where we are, and to enjoy ourselves until midnight, from 8.30, 9 p.m. until midnight. I find this hard to believe, for our Latin culture, in which the children are very directly controlled, I find this very difficult.
Voiceover – For Carlos Anjos, all the participants in the case tried to find a way not to be implicated in this crime.
Carlos Anjos – They all knew that they were at stake because of exposure and abandonment, and all of them somehow tried to find a story that would not harm them much, that would not mistreat them much in that situation.
Voiceover – These are reactions that are raised after the exhibition of CMTV’s reconstruction about the disappearance of Maddie. A job that was never done by the Portuguese police.
Gonçalo Amaral – The reconstruction was never done because one awaited the best moment. At the time when everything happened, one thought about the reconstruction, which is normal in such a situation. There were many journalists in Praia da, Luz, it was not convenient to do it at that time, due to the apparatus and the spectacle that would be given, it was almost as someone said, necessary to close the airspace to make a reconstruction.
Moita Flores – This was decisive. And I don’t know how the police could do it, I understand the difficulties of this media circus that was built there, but it would have been necessary and decisive. Because as can be seen from this reconstruction, and one understands that it follows the statements from the participants in the process, one realises that it is full of contradictions.
Voiceover – For Francisco Moita Flores, the reconstitution by CMTV is more accurate than the one that was shown by the English Crimewatch programme.
Moita Flores – What CMTV just did, I saw the reconstitution that was made by Crimewatch and this one, and one understands that it is like day and night, in terms of accuracy.
Gonçalo Amaral – One has more red wine and the other one shows empty glasses.
Moita Flores – This one has the wine, it has the party, it has the disposition of the people, it has the relationship with the physical space, which is important.
Voiceover – These are reactions that appear after the exhibition of the reconstitution of the moments before and after the disappearance of Madeleine, a case that still prompts much discussion.
Carlos Anjos – This is the most verified case that I can recall in the history of criminal investigation. Countless CDs were made, they were distributed to all of the newspapers, to all of the detective agencies, to all of the policemen. And one thing is objective at this moment in time, just like Gonçalo said: Today we are exactly the same as when the case was closed. This is to say that we are, today, just like we were in 2007. The entire investigative community, that read the process from beginning to end, possibly all of us read it already, there was nobody who said – some have said that this or that could be done, but those are diligences that could hardly have any other result than the one that is there [in the case files].
Voiceover – The doubts remain. The uncertainties about what really happened to Madeleine McCann remain.
