Former Portuguese detective Gonçalo Amaral wins appeal in damages trial.

[Mr Gray]

And nobody has proven the dogs wrong yet.

it is impossible to prove the dogs wrong so that is an unfair comment...its a celestial teapot argument

[G-Unit]

we know what framed his opinions...the dog alerts and his misunderstanding of the dna evidence..

The dog alerts, he said 'don't constitute proof. The laboratory results may constitute proof, but in the end 'it is not enough'. He clearly knew there was no proof. Do policemen forget their suspicions just because they can't prove them? I expect they keep looking for it. 

The final questioning had to be done with the McCanns as arguidos because anything they said which was seen as incriminating would have been used against them in court. Witness statements can't be used in that way.

[John]

it is impossible to prove the dogs wrong so that is an unfair comment...its a celestial teapot argument

A fact all the same.  You like statistics Dave, so how often do cadaver or CSI dogs get it completely wrong?

Often
Seldom
Never

[Alfie]

A fact all the same.  You like statistics Dave, so how often do cadaver or CSI dogs get it completely wrong?

Often
Seldom
Never

In the case of the Swedish serial killer that never was the cadaver dog alerted falsely dozens of times.

[John]

In the case of the Swedish serial killer that never was the cadaver dog alerted falsely dozens of times.

Naughty doggy...letting the profession down 

[ShiningInLuz]

I have changed the word frame to blame and removed the word false since to frame someone requires the introduction of false evidence, in addition it is not known yet what is false and what is fact. The Portuguese were entitled to pursue the McCanns and Murat and designate them arguidos on the basis of the evidence before them.  That is procedure in the real world.

This bit intrigues me.

I can understand why the McCanns were made arguidos.  If either had looked at the dog 'evidence' or the DNA 'evidence' and blurted out a confession, the PJ would have been on shaky ground unless they were already arguidos.

But Murat?  I'm still not seeing any suggestion of criminal activity beyond Lori Campbell thinking he was acting suspiciously.  Hmmm - Lori thinks suspicious, plus a late night call to Malinka.  What would Murat confess to on the basis of that?

[Alice Purjorick]

This bit intrigues me.

I can understand why the McCanns were made arguidos.  If either had looked at the dog 'evidence' or the DNA 'evidence' and blurted out a confession, the PJ would have been on shaky ground unless they were already arguidos.

But Murat?  I'm still not seeing any suggestion of criminal activity beyond Lori Campbell thinking he was acting suspiciously.  Hmmm - Lori thinks suspicious, plus a late night call to Malinka.  What would Murat confess to on the basis of that?

This might be blx then again it might not.
Lori Wotserface reckoned Murat behaved like Ian Huntley and Clarrie did a tapping the side of his nose routine on that score with a "I can't tell you more but similarities have been observed............."
http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/reasons-why-murat-was-named-arguido.html

[ShiningInLuz]

This might be blx then again it might not.
Lori Wotserface reckoned Murat behaved like Ian Huntley and Clarrie did a tapping the side of his nose routine on that score with a "I can't tell you more but similarities have been observed............."
http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/reasons-why-murat-was-named-arguido.html

For the end of July 2008, it is actually quite a bit better than most I have read.

Was Clarence involved when Murat was made an arguido?  I thought CM came later.

[mercury]

For the end of July 2008, it is actually quite a bit better than most I have read.

Was Clarence involved when Murat was made an arguido?  I thought CM came later.

Yes he was, he was still around by 22 may when the mccanns made that press statement where gerry was asked if he knew robert Murat (murat made arguido 14 may iirc)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xadua4_mccanns-early-press-conference-2007_webcam

You can see hm from this clip of it

And heres another link re the clarence/lori thingy

Whilst you were a journalist following the case of Jessica and Holly in Soham. The children were found dead 2 weeks later. Did you predict the same ending to this case?

A: I thought that by this time she would have been found dead or alive, but an ending similar to the case of Jessica and Holly is possible, I don't want to and can't speak about Robert Murat but some of the journalists that worked with me in Soham, and that were recently in Portugal, saw similarities between the case and Robert Murat, more than this I will not say.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id255.html


Ps you can find  i nfo by dates in this excellent chronological save of news stories, i think Im going to add it to the reference bit of this forum


http://themaddiecasefiles.com/forum16.html

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/NEWS_REPORT_INDEX.htm

[lordpookles]

An interesting tidbit considering some commentators were referring to Portugal as bordering on facisim regarding the latest ruling. Portugal is regarded as one of the 10 countries which is truly at peace. Here's a quote from wiki taken from the GPI(global peace index):

The GPI currently indicates Iceland, Denmark, Austria, Portugal, and New Zealand to be the most peaceful countries and Syria, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Central African Republic and Iraq to be the least peaceful.

Another interesting fact about Portugal is it has decriminalised all drugs and treats addicts as patients rather then criminals - very forward thinking imo. Does beg the question who is the most grown up - the UK or Portugal?

[Alfie]

An interesting tidbit considering some commentators were referring to Portugal as bordering on facisim regarding the latest ruling. Portugal is regarded as one of the 10 countries which is truly at peace. Here's a quote from wiki taken from the GPI(global peace index):

The GPI currently indicates Iceland, Denmark, Austria, Portugal, and New Zealand to be the most peaceful countries and Syria, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Central African Republic and Iraq to be the least peaceful.

Another interesting fact about Portugal is it has decriminalised all drugs and treats addicts as patients rather then criminals - very forward thinking imo. Does beg the question who is the most grown up - the UK or Portugal?

Those are the most peaceful countries based on being "consistently free of conflict zones, political instability and terrorism".  It is possible to be both a fascist state and free of all of the above (not saying that Portugal IS Fascist, but just sayin' like).

[lordpookles]

Ahh but political instability is the pertinent point here - if the country was in danger of being a facist state or having facist tendencies this would likely imply political instability imo. I was inclined to agree with you and other posters regarding the ruling but ultimately I think I believe the right to free speech is bigger then any individual. And in this case if for instance said book was published in the UK it would have a lot less power then it does right now as it would be exposed for its weaknesses. As we do not allow publication in any form it is never exposed or contested in the mainstream media.

[Alfie]

Ahh but political instability is the pertinent point here - if the country was in danger of being a racist state or having facist tendencies this would likely imply political instability imo. I was inclined to agree with you and other posters regarding the ruling but ultimately I think I believe the right to free speech is bigger then any individual. And in this case if for instance said book was published in the UK it would have a lot less power then it does right now as it would be exposed for its weaknesses. As we do not allow publication in any form it is never exposed in the mainstream media.

Hmm...well as Austria recently managed to narrowly avoid electing a far right president I tend to disagree with that.  the Far Right is certainly on the rise in Austria which I would say is slightly worrying given European history in the last 100 years.

Do you support absolute freedom of speech or do you believe there have to be some restrictions, eg: racist and homophobic language?

[lordpookles]

Hmm...well as Austria recently managed to narrowly avoid electing a far right president I tend to disagree with that.  the Far Right is certainly on the rise in Austria which I would say is slightly worrying given European history in the last 100 years.

Do you support absolute freedom of speech or do you believe there have to be some restrictions, eg: racist and homophobic language?

True, but how many stable facist governments are there? And far right is not the same as facist I suppose but they are cousins. Regarding freedom of speech we are talking about where the line should be. Let me ask you where do you think it should be. The obvious example being running through a station shouting bomb. I would answer first Alfie but I'm at work...

[Alfie]

True, but how many stable facist governments are there? And far right is not the same as facist I suppose but they are cousins. Regarding freedom of speech we are talking about where the line should be. Let me ask you where do you think it should be. The obvious example being running through a station shouting bomb. I would answer first Alfie but I'm at work...

LOL, so am I... it's a tricky one, not easy to answer but I would say if you're allowed to write a best-selling book in which you accuse someone who is technically innocent of serious crimes, thereby potentially harming their home and professional lives and general well-being, then in theory you should be allowed to verbally accuse and abuse anyone on the basis of anything at all, including race, sexuality, religion.  Can you do so in Portugal?  I'm not sure....