Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: pegasus on December 07, 2014, 12:53:29 PM
Title: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 07, 2014, 12:53:29 PM
BTW I started this thread to provide a place to discuss the latest news stories appearing in the media.
3779
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 02:07:54 PM
I started this thread to provide a place to discuss the latest news stories appearing in the media.
Good idea, Pegasus.
The "news" on the "news" thread is rarely more than speculation anyway.
I don't have an opinion on the specific question you raised as the "news" often appears to be unreliable.
What does make sense to me is a methodical process of analysing information, identifying loose ends and exploring them in further detail.
The key issue seems to be a valid avenue to explore, although it may not lead anywhere.
No one knows at this point:
- whether keys actually disappeared or not;
- nor for how long if they did;
- nor in whose possession they may have been if they were;
- nor when a key to 5A specifically may have disappeared or been lost;
- nor whether keys could have been temporarily been taken from someone else's possession (hiding place) without them realising it.
Although such keys appear unusual for the UK, I'm told they are standard in Portugal. If that's the case, any corner kiosk / hardware shop could have made a duplicate and the original replaced within a very short space of time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 07, 2014, 02:40:25 PM
@carana yes I was just pointing out the relevance of witness TS on the speculative list may be the supposed missing keys as he was the one the newspaper "doorstepped" about the keys.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 03:18:15 PM
The "news" on the "news" thread is rarely more than speculation anyway.
I don't have an opinion on the specific question you raised as the "news" often appears to be unreliable.
What does make sense to me is a methodical process of analysing information, identifying loose ends and exploring them in further detail.
The key issue seems to be a valid avenue to explore, although it may not lead anywhere.
No one knows at this point:
- whether keys actually disappeared or not;
- nor for how long if they did;
- nor in whose possession they may have been if they were;
- nor when a key to 5A specifically may have disappeared or been lost;
- nor whether keys could have been temporarily been taken from someone else's possession (hiding place) without them realising it.
Although such keys appear unusual for the UK, I'm told they are standard in Portugal. If that's the case, any corner kiosk / hardware shop could have made a duplicate and the original replaced within a very short space of time.
While it may be a logical progression, they seem to have taken an awfully long time to get to 'tying up loose ends'. One might have expected these to have been done long ago, - perhaps before they started digging holes - particularly as the witnesses appear to be people know to and already interviewed by the PJ.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 07, 2014, 04:14:37 PM
While it may be a logical progression, they seem to have taken an awfully long time to get to 'tying up loose ends'. One might have expected these to have been done long ago, - perhaps before they started digging holes - particularly as the witnesses appear to be people know to and already interviewed by the PJ.
I don't think you should assume you know better than SY...It may be the searches came first to find possible evidence
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 04:26:32 PM
While it may be a logical progression, they seem to have taken an awfully long time to get to 'tying up loose ends'. One might have expected these to have been done long ago, - perhaps before they started digging holes - particularly as the witnesses appear to be people know to and already interviewed by the PJ.
If there had been agreement about a joint investigation team (JIT), progress would presumably have been much faster as every detail wouldn't have had to be subject to an excruciatingly long legal process.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 04:30:48 PM
That doesn't explain why questioning these people didn't take place before holes were dug. Its not as if these are new discovers- the witnesses were all interviewed before and their statements in the files. I agree that the process takes time, but that is not an explanation for the timing of these interviews. IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 04:40:59 PM
That doesn't explain why questioning these people didn't take place before holes were dug. Its not as if these are new discovers- the witnesses were all interviewed before and their statements in the files. I agree that the process takes time, but that is not an explanation for the timing of these interviews. IMO
The two events may have been (largely) unrelated strands.
The ground search may have been routine, or it may have been intelligence-based. If it was intelligence-based and had led to the discovery of evidence, that would have provided more pertinent questions to ask of potential suspects.
Or, even more mundanely, the timing may have been scheduled according to when it was feasible to gather together all the people necessary to conduct it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 04:43:14 PM
Perhaps we shall never know.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on December 07, 2014, 04:50:42 PM
That doesn't explain why questioning these people didn't take place before holes were dug. Its not as if these are new discovers- the witnesses were all interviewed before and their statements in the files. I agree that the process takes time, but that is not an explanation for the timing of these interviews. IMO
Christine Callan appears to be an associate of Michael Green so perhaps she is his alibi ? The two maintance men Luis Antonio and Mario Marreiros had a legitimate reason to be in 5a and for their fingerprints and even DNA to be there. It could also be argued that if they were looking into 5a, as seen by Miss Silence, that wouldn't be at all suspicious. Antonio Luis, Robert Murat and Michaela Walchzuch where included because they provided an alibi for each other and Joaquim Marques is only on the list, as far as I can see, because he was fingered as Cooperman.
Is this questioning about eliminating individuals who may be used by the defence in any future trial ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 07, 2014, 05:13:40 PM
While it may be a logical progression, they seem to have taken an awfully long time to get to 'tying up loose ends'. One might have expected these to have been done long ago, - perhaps before they started digging holes - particularly as the witnesses appear to be people know to and already interviewed by the PJ.
I agree, all of this should have been carried out long ago ... 2007 to be precise.
There is plenty of information in the files about Robert Murat's phone usage and that of Madeleine's parents and their friends and rightly so. However it must surely be accepted that it was a mistake to concentrate all resources to that and neglect other phone traffic in PDL. It took Operation Grange to undertake that diligence of scrutinising and analysing the phone triangulations which indicated other persons of interest.
That there are so many loose ends and witnesses to be interviewed and re-interviewed does indicate historical neglect. Operation Grange had in effect to go back to square one.
In the witness statements given by these people to the PJ ... was anyone asked about phone calls ... was their given location checked against these calls? Apparently not. Otherwise SY would not be having to play catch up now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 05:25:39 PM
It will be interesting to see if the analysis of the phone traffic proves to be of any use.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 07, 2014, 05:26:19 PM
Christine Callan appears to be an associate of Michael Green so perhaps she is his alibi ? The two maintance men Luis Antonio and Mario Marreiros had a legitimate reason to be in 5a and for their fingerprints and even DNA to be there. It could also be argued that if they were looking into 5a, as seen by Miss Silence, that wouldn't be at all suspicious. Antonio Luis, Robert Murat and Michaela Walchzuch where included because they provided an alibi for each other and Joaquim Marques is only on the list, as far as I can see, because he was fingered as Cooperman.
Is this questioning about eliminating individuals who may be used by the defence in any future trial ?
What fingerprints and DNA in 5A are associated with any of these people??
Unless there is a different Luis Antonio in the files, the only one I've seen is the swimming pool entrepreneur.
The questions asked at the time of Mario-the-laundry-man are so vague, it's not clear where he actually picked the laundry up from. Did he go into each of the flats to pick it up? How likely is that? Did the cleaning ladies dump it outside? Down the stairwell for central collection?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 07, 2014, 05:36:31 PM
It will be interesting to see if the analysis of the phone traffic proves to be of any use.
Even if it does not point to a perpetrator it is a line of investigation which should have been followed in 2007.
Similarly it should not have been left to Operation Grange to attempt to ascertain which of the flats in the immediate blocks were occupied prior to Madeleine's disappearance, by whom and which had been illegally sub-let ... that is a diligence which should have been carried out in 2007.
All investigation is a process of elimination. However if no-one bothers to investigate ... nothing will be found ... and that can only be of benefit to criminals.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 05:41:17 PM
Even if it does not point to a perpetrator it is a line of investigation which should have been followed in 2007.
Similarly it should not have been left to Operation Grange to attempt to ascertain which of the flats in the immediate blocks were occupied prior to Madeleine's disappearance, by whom and which had been illegally sub-let ... that is a diligence which should have been carried out in 2007.
All investigation is a process of elimination. However if no-one bothers to investigate ... nothing will be found ... and that can only be of benefit to criminals.
Though if it proves fruitless, it will be of no consequence that it wasn't done back then.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 07, 2014, 05:50:29 PM
Though if it proves fruitless, it will be of no consequence that it wasn't done back then.
It might have borne fruit if it had been thoroughly examined at the time.
Now, time is far less on Madeleine's side than on that of any perpretator.
However, even now, to take that one example, what if an abode (holiday flat or any other type) had been sub-let to someone who was wanted by the police for a serious offence? The offence in question may not have any connection to Madeleine, but it may still be a lead to pursue, particularly if combined with other evidence that the police may have gathered.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 07, 2014, 06:22:02 PM
Yes. Perhaps it was covered back then, though clearly SY want to investigate to their own satisfaction.
I think having to go back to the beginning was probably something SY could well have done without.
I don't think it was covered back in 2007 and I am sure that if it had been SY would have been satisfied just to take it from there and proceed to areas which came to light only after the case was archived.
The tragedy is ALL the groundwork had been meticulously carried out by the PJ in 2007. The evidence just wasn't followed through either to rule in or to rule out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 07, 2014, 06:36:35 PM
It might have borne fruit if it had been thoroughly examined at the time. Now, time is far less on Madeleine's side than on that of any perpretator.
However, even now, to take that one example, what if an abode (holiday flat or any other type) had been sub-let to someone who was wanted by the police for a serious offence? The offence in question may not have any connection to Madeleine, but it may still be a lead to pursue, particularly if combined with other evidence that the police may have gathered.
I would agree with that, though I think time never was on Madeleine's side and she was dead before the evening was over.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 07, 2014, 07:43:35 PM
What fingerprints and DNA in 5A are associated with any of these people??
Unless there is a different Luis Antonio in the files, the only one I've seen is the swimming pool entrepreneur.
The questions asked at the time of Mario-the-laundry-man are so vague, it's not clear where he actually picked the laundry up from. Did he go into each of the flats to pick it up? How likely is that? Did the cleaning ladies dump it outside? Down the stairwell for central collection?
I think Faith has the names wrong.
The only other fingerprint found besides Kates was Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR. I find the lack of prints quite disturbing, when so many people searched around the apartment.
The two handymen that went to 5A on the 1st May were Mario Domingos Moreira (not Mario Fernando Madeira Marreiros Laundry man) And Luis Ferro. Luis Antonio was Michaela's husband
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 07, 2014, 07:45:15 PM
I think having to go back to the beginning was probably something SY could well have done without.
I don't think it was covered back in 2007 and I am sure that if it had been SY would have been satisfied just to take it from there and proceed to areas which came to light only after the case was archived.
The tragedy is ALL the groundwork had been meticulously carried out by the PJ in 2007. The evidence just wasn't followed through either to rule in or to rule out.
So if the PJ didn't investigate phone records, why did they collect them?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on December 07, 2014, 07:53:07 PM
The only other fingerprint found besides Kates was Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR. I find the lack of prints quite disturbing, when so many people searched around the apartment.
The two handymen that went to 5A on the 1st May were Mario Domingos Moreira (not Mario Fernando Madeira Marreiros Laundry man) And Luis Ferro. Luis Antonio was Michaela's husband
Apologies you are of course correct.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 07, 2014, 08:23:40 PM
So if the PJ didn't investigate phone records, why did they collect them?
I am not certain about this ... so stand to be corrected ... I believe it was British technicians who collected the technical information and passed it to the PJ. Whether that was at the behest of Leicestershire Police or the PJ I have no idea.
The PJ thoroughly scrutinised the phone records of Mr Murat, the Drs McCann and their friends ... that they went no further is not a question for me ... I am equally in the dark about that as you are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 07, 2014, 10:30:30 PM
Someone could have said the same for Natascha Kampusch.
Or quite a few others...
There's certainly no forensic evidence that she was even injured in that flat, let alone died.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 12:12:10 AM
Been doing a little reading about the career of DCI Nicola Wall; I think she will be an excellent replacement for DCI Redwood.
25 years service at the Met eight of which are as a DCI are not to be sniffed at. I found it interesting that she is a hostage and crisis negotiator as well as head of the Murder Investigation Team in west London.
I doubt if she will be able to give an introductory interview, which is a pity; but I think she will be a no nonsense lady.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 08, 2014, 12:40:40 AM
I don't know why but I've got a feeling a really big news on this case is about to come out. Does anyone else have this feeling?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 08, 2014, 12:52:16 AM
It's not a silly question. There is no evidence they didn't investigate.
There is substantial evidence they did investigate the phone evidence. They just didn't investigate it thoroughly enough to note the calls made by those who appear to have been petty burglars, who were in communication and who were in PDL at the appropriate time. That the evidence was there is indisputable ... the PJ found it as did Operation Grange ... seven years down the line.
They concentrated everything on Madeleine's parents and Murat and cast the net no further.
Robert Murat and his associates were thoroughly investigated ... as an arguido that was perfectly in order.
Madeleine's parents and their friends were also scrutinised ... as the people closest to the missing child ... again a proper investigative strategy.
That a measure of cross checking was carried out is apparent from Inspector Paulo Diaz' report ...
2.0. METHODOLOGY
a) In the first phase, we proceeded to a careful reading of the files taking notes of the elements that could contribute, in any way, to the composition of the chronograms of the facts. From that reading is clear that much of the proof is testimonial.
b) So, at this phase, we compared the declarations of the Ocean Club's employees with the phone registries of the 3 operators, to figure out if there is any incongruence between the depositions made and their presence at the place, when they claimed that they were absent from that locality. http://madeleinemccannfiles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/PJ-1a-1s-Intelligence-Analysis-Report-05-02-08-PJ-Inspector-Paulo-Dias_29.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 08, 2014, 10:59:42 AM
There is substantial evidence they did investigate the phone evidence. They just didn't investigate it thoroughly enough to note the calls made by those who appear to have been petty burglars, who were in communication and who were in PDL at the appropriate time. That the evidence was there is indisputable ... the PJ found it as did Operation Grange ... seven years down the line.
They concentrated everything on Madeleine's parents and Murat and cast the net no further.
Robert Murat and his associates were thoroughly investigated ... as an arguido that was perfectly in order.
Madeleine's parents and their friends were also scrutinised ... as the people closest to the missing child ... again a proper investigative strategy.
That a measure of cross checking was carried out is apparent from Inspector Paulo Diaz' report ...
2.0. METHODOLOGY
a) In the first phase, we proceeded to a careful reading of the files taking notes of the elements that could contribute, in any way, to the composition of the chronograms of the facts. From that reading is clear that much of the proof is testimonial.
b) So, at this phase, we compared the declarations of the Ocean Club's employees with the phone registries of the 3 operators, to figure out if there is any incongruence between the depositions made and their presence at the place, when they claimed that they were absent from that locality. http://madeleinemccannfiles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/PJ-1a-1s-Intelligence-Analysis-Report-05-02-08-PJ-Inspector-Paulo-Dias_29.html
The petty burglar bit has been done to death. Burglars don't nick kids nor do burglars go into kids rooms as there is usually nothing of value in there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 12:01:57 PM
The petty burglar bit has been done to death. Burglars don't nick kids nor do burglars go into kids rooms as there is usually nothing of value in there.
Burglars are criminals who think nothing of entering peoples' homes and who on occasion violate or kill them ... and who sometimes kidnap children.
There are so many known and documented case that it makes your comment particularly risible. Somewhat along the lines of the heartfelt denials that the children of British holidaymakers in the Algarve had been assaulted in their beds.
Burglars don't usually burn down houses ... but this team of four did. Argentina: burglars burn family home, killing parents, badly injuring children http://www.neurope.eu/news/wire/argentina-burglars-burn-family-home-killing-parents-badly-injuring-children
All burglaries have the potential to get out of hand as this one did. E-fit appeal after toddler injured in aggravated burglary in Rossington http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/e-fit-appeal-after-toddler-injured-in-aggravated-burglary-in-rossington-1-6445283
Given the opportunity ... this burglar did precisely what you have claimed burglars do not do.
** snipped** The suspect had entered the home through an unlocked door, and was rummaging through the basement when he discovered the girl’s bedroom, Carriger said. The abductor picked up the child and carried her upstairs, where he walked out the front door. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-man-saves-kidnapped-daughter-article-1.2003192
The stereotype you have adopted for the type of person who takes it upon him/herself to invade homes is as seriously flawed as are the people you champion ... they are never 'nice' under any circumstances but quite often they are evil personified ... just like the ones in my town who nailed an elderly man to the floor leaving him to die.
... and it is a matter of record ... they DO take children.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 08, 2014, 01:34:39 PM
Burglars are criminals who think nothing of entering peoples' homes and who on occasion violate or kill them ... and who sometimes kidnap children.
There are so many known and documented case that it makes your comment particularly risible. Somewhat along the lines of the heartfelt denials that the children of British holidaymakers in the Algarve had been assaulted in their beds.
Burglars don't usually burn down houses ... but this team of four did. Argentina: burglars burn family home, killing parents, badly injuring children http://www.neurope.eu/news/wire/argentina-burglars-burn-family-home-killing-parents-badly-injuring-children
All burglaries have the potential to get out of hand as this one did. E-fit appeal after toddler injured in aggravated burglary in Rossington http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/e-fit-appeal-after-toddler-injured-in-aggravated-burglary-in-rossington-1-6445283
Given the opportunity ... this burglar did precisely what you have claimed burglars do not do.
** snipped** The suspect had entered the home through an unlocked door, and was rummaging through the basement when he discovered the girl’s bedroom, Carriger said. The abductor picked up the child and carried her upstairs, where he walked out the front door. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-man-saves-kidnapped-daughter-article-1.2003192
The stereotype you have adopted for the type of person who takes it upon him/herself to invade homes is as seriously flawed as are the people you champion ... they are never 'nice' under any circumstances but quite often they are evil personified ... just like the ones in my town who nailed an elderly man to the floor leaving him to die.
... and it is a matter of record ... they DO take children.
Red bit: Who are these people to whom you refer that you believe I champion? Furthermore please give corroborative detail of where I said I champion them? I suggest you should acquaint yourself a little better with the world of burglars and burglary and desist from from searching the world of Google to find the odd nutter before using expressions like risible and stereotype. You are eventually going to paint your self into a corner with your arguments.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 02:07:35 PM
Red bit: Who are these people to whom you refer that you believe I champion? Furthermore please give corroborative detail of where I said I champion them? I suggest you should acquaint yourself a little better with the world of burglars and burglary and desist from from searching the world of Google to find the odd nutter before using expressions like risible and stereotype. You are eventually going to paint your self into a corner with your arguments.
You fail to recognise ... all ... that is ... without exception ... people who think they have the right to enter other people's homes without invitation and very much against their will ... are by definition ... nutters and criminals.
Their conduct is inexcusable ... your defence of them is extraordinary.
I am in no corner ... but I think you recognise exactly where you are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 08, 2014, 02:12:33 PM
You fail to recognise ... all ... that is ... without exception ... people who think they have the right to enter other people's homes without invitation and very much against their will ... are by definition ... nutters and criminals.
Their conduct is inexcusable ... your defence of them is extraordinary.
I am in no corner ... but I think you recognise exactly where you are.
Criminals yes, nutters not necessarily...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 08, 2014, 02:34:50 PM
You fail to recognise ... all ... that is ... without exception ... people who think they have the right to enter other people's homes without invitation and very much against their will ... are by definition ... nutters and criminals.
Their conduct is inexcusable ... your defence of them is extraordinary.
I am in no corner ... but I think you recognise exactly where you are.
Red bit: I ask again; demonstrate where I defend them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 02:45:16 PM
Red bit: I ask again; demonstrate where I defend them.
If you cannot understand the content of your own posts concerning your attitude to burglars who wouldn't dream of entering a child's bedroom because there is nothing of value there ... depends what value one places on a child perhaps ... or who would never harm a child ... I am afraid no demonstration of mine would suffice to educate you.
Just reread your posts ... and try to see them for what they are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 08, 2014, 04:31:09 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 08, 2014, 04:39:59 PM
A serial burglar who broke into a woman's house in Dublin and raped her twice has been jailed for 9 years.
Gerard Kane of Dominic Street, Dun Laoghaire in Co. Dublin pleaded guilty on the 5th day of his trial to the attacks on June 11th last year.
The Central Criminal Court heard the victim was woken at 1.30am by a noise to find Mr. Kane standing in her bedroom doorway with socks on both hands carrying a hammer, screwdriver and small torch.
There are plenty more examples of burglars carrying out sexual offences...perhaps they haven't read the burglars manual
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 08, 2014, 05:09:45 PM
That's not to say that he broke in with the intent to steal anything. He may have entered with rape on his mind.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 06:26:00 PM
However it seems in your lexicon that ... breaking in to rape and putting you in fear of your life ... is fine. The archetypal burglar just burgles.
For your sake, I hope you are never in the position of encountering one of these guys in your home or getting between him and his purpose or his escape ... and I hope you do not have a vulnerable person under your roof to worry about.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 08, 2014, 06:38:36 PM
Burglars are criminals who think nothing of entering peoples' homes and who on occasion violate or kill them ... and who sometimes kidnap children.
There are so many known and documented case that it makes your comment particularly risible. Somewhat along the lines of the heartfelt denials that the children of British holidaymakers in the Algarve had been assaulted in their beds.
Burglars don't usually burn down houses ... but this team of four did. Argentina: burglars burn family home, killing parents, badly injuring children http://www.neurope.eu/news/wire/argentina-burglars-burn-family-home-killing-parents-badly-injuring-children
All burglaries have the potential to get out of hand as this one did. E-fit appeal after toddler injured in aggravated burglary in Rossington http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/e-fit-appeal-after-toddler-injured-in-aggravated-burglary-in-rossington-1-6445283
Given the opportunity ... this burglar did precisely what you have claimed burglars do not do.
** snipped** The suspect had entered the home through an unlocked door, and was rummaging through the basement when he discovered the girl’s bedroom, Carriger said. The abductor picked up the child and carried her upstairs, where he walked out the front door. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/utah-man-saves-kidnapped-daughter-article-1.2003192
The stereotype you have adopted for the type of person who takes it upon him/herself to invade homes is as seriously flawed as are the people you champion ... they are never 'nice' under any circumstances but quite often they are evil personified ... just like the ones in my town who nailed an elderly man to the floor leaving him to die.
... and it is a matter of record ... they DO take children.
Great post. Shame slippery old Alice has chosen to ignore the main thrust of your point.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 08, 2014, 06:40:46 PM
However it seems in your lexicon that ... breaking in to rape and putting you in fear of your life ... is fine. The archetypal burglar just burgles.
For your sake, I hope you are never in the position of encountering one of these guys in your home or getting between him and his purpose or his escape ... and I hope you do not have a vulnerable person under your roof to worry about.
What a strange and twisted mind you must have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 08, 2014, 06:41:39 PM
Red bit: Who are these people to whom you refer that you believe I champion? Furthermore please give corroborative detail of where I said I champion them? I suggest you should acquaint yourself a little better with the world of burglars and burglary and desist from from searching the world of Google to find the odd nutter before using expressions like risible and stereotype. You are eventually going to paint your self into a corner with your arguments.
If a person who enters a property illegally and walks out with a child isn't "the odd nutter", how else would you describe him / her?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 08, 2014, 07:02:10 PM
I do not attempt to excuse burglary or law breaking of any sort ... what is your excuse?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 09, 2014, 01:22:00 PM
There has been some speculation that DCI Redwood has retired in despair. Nothing could be further from the truth. It has been on the cards right from the beginning as in common with others on the team all were appointed in the knowledge that they would be eligible at some point in what they knew was going to be a long haul. By staggering redundancy payments it probably helped in the management of resources elsewhere in the Met.
**snip** Since then no police force has been actively looking for the child.
But last week, it was announced that Scotland Yard would reopen the search, a move that led to criticism that officers’ valuable time would be diverted away from other cases.
A police source said that the team of 30 Scotland Yard officers would in part be drawn from those who were due to leave the force through redundancy or retirement.
One of the major difficulties — and expenses — that detectives will face is that much of the material in the investigation will require translation from Portuguese, the source said.
Great post. Shame slippery old Alice has chosen to ignore the main thrust of your point.
Coming from you Alf bo that is rare praise indeed. I shall cherish it alongside being referred to as "a fly b'stard" by a weegie. Cool man 8(>(( keep em coming. It shows more class than insinuating people are pedalos. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 09, 2014, 04:11:32 PM
IMO there were two stairwell sightings (a) evening 2nd by witness MM (on purported list), (b) evening 3rd by witness BS (not on purported list).
TS (on purported list) was associated by a UK paper (IMO based on speaking with BS) to supposed lost keys.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 09, 2014, 06:38:15 PM
Of course he's gonna say that in early days. He had his business to protect..
There is a video available of JH stating there was no evidence of forced entry. I watched and listened and it sounds to me like it is his honest observation of the facts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 09, 2014, 06:50:08 PM
There is a video available of JH stating there was no evidence of forced entry. I watched and listened and it sounds to me like it is his honest observation of the facts.
Maybe so ... however I doubt very much his qualification to decide whether or not an abduction had taken place.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 09, 2014, 07:58:01 PM
Now who said this I wonder.
' “The total number of documents we have to go through is 39,148, of which we have processed 21,614 so far”. '
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 09, 2014, 08:03:25 PM
Gail insisted: "I know with all my heart that Marques definitely was NOT the guy I saw three times in Praia de Luz. That man was not the guy in my drawing".
28th January 2008
The Sun
McCann cops to quiz lookalike
By GARY O’SHEA in Praia da Luz
Detectives are to quiz a drifter who looks uncannily like a mystery suspect in Maddie McCann’s disappearance.
Joaquim Agostinho, 42, denies he is the creepy man depicted in a sketch issued by parents Kate and Gerry McCann.
But Metodo 3, the Spanish private investigators hired by the McCanns, are taking the possibility seriously.
The artist's impression was based on a description by tourist Gail Cooper of a man she saw lurking near kids in Praia da Luz, Portugal, before Maddie, four, disappeared.
A source close to Metodo 3 said: ''We are going to be talking to this man as a priority, to establish if he is the one Mrs Cooper saw.''
When shown a photo of Agostinho, Gail, 50, of Newark, Notts, gasped: ''He’s the spitting image of the man I saw three times at the resort. It’s deeply shocking to see my drawing come to life.''
Unkempt Agostinho lives on disability benefit in Altura, 87 miles east of Praia da Luz.
He said: ''People will claim the crazy guy is me — but I don't even know where that Praia da Luz place is.
''I've never been there. I can't even drive. I accept the drawing looks like me. But I did not kill Madeleine and the police haven’t spoken to me.''
Detectives are to quiz a drifter who looks uncannily like a mystery suspect in Maddie McCann’s disappearance.
Joaquim Agostinho, 42, denies he is the creepy man depicted in a sketch issued by parents Kate and Gerry McCann.
But Metodo 3, the Spanish private investigators hired by the McCanns, are taking the possibility seriously.
The artist's impression was based on a description by tourist Gail Cooper of a man she saw lurking near kids in Praia da Luz, Portugal, before Maddie, four, disappeared.
A source close to Metodo 3 said: ''We are going to be talking to this man as a priority, to establish if he is the one Mrs Cooper saw.''
When shown a photo of Agostinho, Gail, 50, of Newark, Notts, gasped: ''He’s the spitting image of the man I saw three times at the resort. It’s deeply shocking to see my drawing come to life.''
Unkempt Agostinho lives on disability benefit in Altura, 87 miles east of Praia da Luz.
He said: ''People will claim the crazy guy is me — but I don't even know where that Praia da Luz place is.
''I've never been there. I can't even drive. I accept the drawing looks like me. But I did not kill Madeleine and the police haven’t spoken to me.''
I thought it was crecheman that she saw walking by the beach? How many suspects did this witness see?
Mrs Cooper first spotted the man on the beach at Praia da Luz on April 20 at about 1pm when she went for lunch with friends at the Paraiso Restaurant.
She said: "He was wandering about on the beach alone even though it was pouring down with rain. There wasn't another soul about. I watched him for a few minutes before I went back to chatting to my friends."
A third unidentified man interviewed by police refused to talk to reporters as he arrived at Faro Police Station. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-police-quiz-rapist-4779612?
Thanks Vixte, any idea who this is?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 09, 2014, 11:48:17 PM
I am not sure but why there are no photos of this person? It is strange. They did photograph Mario, the laundy man and he seemed to be joking with the reporters. Maybe the person asked to be made arguido and is after that covered with secrecy?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 09, 2014, 11:56:26 PM
I am not sure but why there are no photos of this person? It is strange. They did photograph Mario, the laundy man and he seemed to be joking with the reporters. Maybe the person asked to be made arguido and is after that covered with secrecy?
Possibly MG just guessing from unofficial list. BTW if they are speaking with MM and with TS then I would think they would also speak with (as witness only) BS as he had sighting similar to MM's, and also was newspaper's source re TS/keys, all IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: colombosstogey on December 10, 2014, 06:33:19 AM
New detective may bring fresh focus to McCann probe
How many detectives does it take to solve this case .....??
ONE lol, but he was thrown off it.....nuff said ...... cos no other detectives paid for by the McCanns or by our TAX MONEY to the tune of over TEN MILLION DOLLARS has so far solved this case.
Perhaps they should go back to the beginning..............
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on December 10, 2014, 07:29:06 AM
Ah.. masks are falling.. at least we know now who is influencing Portuguese media..
It would be better they made the businesswoman tell the 'well known' secret!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 08:07:51 AM
it is fascinating to observe that the people being questioned in Portugal are being done so on the basis of 'inconsistencies'; in their previous accounts of events.
Now the mccanns and associates had also 'inconsistencies' in their accounts of events as well.
Yet no indication has emerged from SY that they ever questioned the mccanns and associates in the first place. Now why is that ?
Could it possibly be, they never were ???
Perish the thought. 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 08:42:41 AM
But the bottom-line is that by publishing the list people on it who are preparing to travel to Faro this week to face yet another grilling by police officers feel their privacy has been invaded.
So, the Stud Muffin is guilty of pretty much the same thing as Sky / dossier compilers who you recently likened to drug pushers I believe.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 08:53:12 AM
But the bottom-line is that by publishing the list people on it who are preparing to travel to Faro this week to face yet another grilling by police officers feel their privacy has been invaded.
So, the Stud Muffin is guilty of pretty much the same thing as Sky / dossier compilers who you recently likened to drug pushers I believe.
So when were the police going to interview Brenda Leyland ?
and where did the Blacksmith obtain the list ?
Was it from SY itself ?
as to the comilers of that dossier, who clearly liased with the mccanns, let's see what happens next week. 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 09:11:10 AM
You mean he should be on the list of 'usual suspects' whenever a crime is reported?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 09:19:03 AM
IMO you could not be more wrong about that. But back to the latest news, is there any video of a witness throwing water over a cameraman? IMO all these witnesses should have been provided by PJ/SY with privacy when attending these interviews. There must certainly have been people interviewed re this case recently in the UK they get privacy so why not witnesses in Portugal?
IMO it is only one illustration of why a joint working arrangement would have been beneficial.
Far more discretion would have been allowed to interview witnesses with far more discretion.
For example, the scoping exercise carried out by Operation Grange obviously involved contact with witnesses in GB (innocent-dad-man for one) but there were no letters of request to fanfare those interactions.
By the way, the water thrown was contained in a bottle.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 09:27:08 AM
No, i feel it is progressing slowly towards a conclusion. It just that its not going to be a very conclusive conclusion - there will be no convicted villain at the end of this story.
Redwood is retiring and the new leader's role is to wind the investigation up/down with a minimum of face loss.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 09:31:25 AM
How many detectives does it take to solve this case .....??
ONE lol, but he was thrown off it.....nuff said ...... cos no other detectives paid for by the McCanns or by our TAX MONEY to the tune of over TEN MILLION DOLLARS has so far solved this case.
Perhaps they should go back to the beginning..............
Do get things right.
EIGHT MILLION is the figure for three years intensive work.
Maybe next time you see someone spitting chewing gum onto the street you should point out the cost to the taxpayer of SIXTY MILLION per annum to clean it off.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 09:40:37 AM
No, i feel it is progressing slowly towards a conclusion. It just that its not going to be a very conclusive conclusion - there will be no convicted villain at the end of this story.
Redwood is retiring and the new leader's role is to wind the investigation up/down with a minimum of face loss.
Have you got clairvoyant powers?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 09:42:14 AM
No, i feel it is progressing slowly towards a conclusion. It just that its not going to be a very conclusive conclusion - there will be no convicted villain at the end of this story.
Redwood is retiring and the new leader's role is to wind the investigation up/down with a minimum of face loss.
I believe everyone on that team has many years experience and will be due to retire, in fact we do not know how many have already done so.
Dream on if you think the new DCI is there to 'save face'. She is there to crack this case and find out what happened to Madeleine McCann ... if there is evidence left after nearly eight years ... I hope it will lead to a conviction.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 09:59:25 AM
I believe everyone on that team has many years experience and will be due to retire, in fact we do not know how many have already done so.
Dream on if you think the new DCI is there to 'save face'. She is there to crack this case and find out what happened to Madeleine McCann ... if there is evidence left after nearly eight years ... I hope it will lead to a conviction.
Oh dear. &%&£(+ &%&£(+ &%&£(+
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 10, 2014, 10:01:41 AM
I am not too sure where to post this as it fits two or three threads I can't see it elsewhere but if I have stolen someone elses thunder I apologise.
Today is paradox day: Somewhere on Portugal's southern coast two police forces are questioning witnesses in an attempt to determine the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a little girl seven years ago. Meanwhile in the capital city to the north lawyers will be making closing arguments in a case where parties are claiming the publication of a book written by an ex police officer had caused "damage" to the search for that same child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 10:07:26 AM
I am not too sure where to post this as it fits two or three threads I can't see it elsewhere but if I have stolen someone elses thunder I apologise.
Today is paradox day: Somewhere on Portugal's southern coast two police forces are questioning witnesses in an attempt to determine the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a little girl seven years ago. Meanwhile in the capital city to the north lawyers will be making closing arguments in a case where parties are claiming the publication of a book written by an ex police officer had caused "damage" to the search for that same child.
Precisely Alice.
However, as most people are aware, the trial has far more to do with trying to get more money than anything else.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 10, 2014, 10:23:11 AM
I am not too sure where to post this as it fits two or three threads I can't see it elsewhere but if I have stolen someone elses thunder I apologise.
Today is paradox day: Somewhere on Portugal's southern coast two police forces are questioning witnesses in an attempt to determine the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a little girl seven years ago. Meanwhile in the capital city to the north lawyers will be making closing arguments in a case where parties are claiming the publication of a book written by an ex police officer had caused "damage" to the search for that same child.
Paradox? maybe ... Conundrum? maybe ... people somewhere who do not want a solution to what happened to Madeleine McCann to be found ... Certainly!
Madelaine McCann's parents ... against all the odds ... managed to have the official investigation reopened three years ago.
Remind me who was investigating her case and looking for her in the previous four ... oh that's right ... her parents.
Remind me why no one was looking for her ... the original lead detectives theory ... which he detailed in his book.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 10, 2014, 10:35:41 AM
I am not too sure where to post this as it fits two or three threads I can't see it elsewhere but if I have stolen someone elses thunder I apologise.
Today is paradox day: Somewhere on Portugal's southern coast two police forces are questioning witnesses in an attempt to determine the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of a little girl seven years ago. Meanwhile in the capital city to the north lawyers will be making closing arguments in a case where parties are claiming the publication of a book written by an ex police officer had caused "damage" to the search for that same child.
There's no paradox. The McCanns were libelled in a book that also damaged the search for Madeleine by propagating the lie that Madeleine was determined as dead by the first (shelved) enquiry, and her parents determined, both as the perpetrators and as the originators of a fraudulent "fund" in their dead daughter's name.
It is reasonable to speculate that had the shelved enquiry been properly led, there would have been no need of a second enquiry with Scotland Yard as key contributors.
Good post, Brietta.
And on the efits, they were in the possession of Scotland Yard and the PJ for several years before they were released.
Ask those two police forces why the efits weren't released sooner
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 10:40:13 AM
I saw a newspaper headline today - possibly Mirror- which said 'Maddie cops - last chance to solve mystery' ( or words to that effect). Do they know something that the rest of us don't, or is it just their usual hyperbole?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 10:40:58 AM
There's no paradox. The McCanns were libelled in a book that also damaged the search for Madeleine by propagating the lie that Madeleine was determined as dead by the first (shelved) enquiry, and her parents determined, both as the perpetrators and as the originators of a fraudulent "fund" in their dead daughter's name.
It is reasonable to speculate that had the shelved enquiry been properly led, there would have been no need of a second enquiry with Scotland Yard as key contributors.
Good post, Brietta.
And on the efits, they were in the possession of Scotland Yard and the PJ for several years before they were released.
Ask those two police forces why the efits weren't released sooner
but the mccanns had the e-fits first.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 10:44:43 AM
That is easy to find out. The yard only have to ask their investigators that question.
Easy for certain people to find out, no doubt.
Either way the question is irrelevant, unless you are seriously suggesting that the McCanns should have gainsaid the police by releasing efits also in the police's possession that they (British and Portuguese) chose not to release.
There is also the question of when Martin Smith raised the efit.
After the end of January 2008, beyond doubt, and almost certainly after the first enquiry was shelved (August 2008) and Martin Smith realised he had been wrong to suppose the man was Gerry.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 11:08:57 AM
and correct me if I'm wrong, with evidence of course, that the mccanns weren't given the e-fits.
You produce the evidence that the McCanns were given the efits, together with an explanation of why, if they were, they should have gainsaid the police when the police also had them, but chose to wait until the crimewatch programme to release them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 10, 2014, 11:22:07 AM
You produce the evidence that the McCanns were given the efits, together with an explanation of why, if they were, they should have gainsaid the police when the police also had them, but chose to wait until the crimewatch programme to release them.
I don't need to .
I didn't employ them. The mccanns did.
Why do you like to change history ?
Hold on, I know, you are here to defend the mccanns, NO MATTER WHAT.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 10, 2014, 11:24:55 AM
I have seen reports Murat's questioning has been suspended due to being questioned in past on the same matter.. Didn't I say this before? I remember seeing it somewhere before..
It is strange that Murat avoided this questioning when he claimed he was happy to give evidence..
His wife is to be questioned today.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 11:30:12 AM
I have seen reports Murat's questioning has been suspended due to being questioned in past on the same matter.. Didn't I say this before? I remember seeing it somewhere before..
It is strange that Murat avoided this questioning when he claimed he was happy to give evidence..
His wife is to be questioned today.
Where did the order of play come from - anywhere reliable?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 11:36:36 AM
I saw a newspaper headline today - possibly Mirror- which said 'Maddie cops - last chance to solve mystery' ( or words to that effect). Do they know something that the rest of us don't, or is it just their usual hyperbole?
I think I shall probably wait for an official announcement from SY to find out exactly what is going on as they are most likely to know.
In the interim newspaper headlines are great for us to speculate and squabble over ... and aren't video reports great for showing us the calibre of at least one witness connected to Madeleine's case ... you know the old saying "Birds of a feather flock together" and MSM has told us the interesting thing about these people are that some were known to each other and in contact with each other.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 11:40:49 AM
I think I shall probably wait for an official announcement from SY to find out exactly what is going on as they are most likely to know.
In the interim newspaper headlines are great for us to speculate and squabble over ... and aren't video reports great for showing us the calibre of at least one witness connected to Madeleine's case ... you know the old saying "Birds of a feather flock together" and MSM has told us the interesting thing about these people are that some were known to each other and in contact with each other.
And the least likely to tell us, I imagine. In the meantime we are thrown back on tabloid hacks and 'sources' of dubious reliability.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 10, 2014, 11:46:06 AM
Paradox? maybe ... Conundrum? maybe ... people somewhere who do not want a solution to what happened to Madeleine McCann to be found ... Certainly!
Madelaine McCann's parents ... against all the odds ... managed to have the official investigation reopened three years ago.
Remind me who was investigating her case and looking for her in the previous four ... oh that's right ... her parents.
Remind me why no one was looking for her ... the original lead detectives theory ... which he detailed in his book.
Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?
Remind us: When was Dr Amaral removed from the case? I presume it is he to whom you refer as "the original lead detective" What was the date the case was archived? What was the date of publication of Dr Amarals book?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 10, 2014, 12:13:09 PM
You produce the evidence that the McCanns were given the efits, together with an explanation of why, if they were, they should have gainsaid the police when the police also had them, but chose to wait until the crimewatch programme to release them.
Of course they were given them. They have progress meetings with their investigators. They are paying them so they want to know what they've been doing. Other efits are in their book except these ones. They've been trying to connect Tannerman and Smithman as being the same person from the beginning. The McCanns can make up their own excuses, they don't need you to be doing it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 12:37:13 PM
Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?
Remind us: When was Dr Amaral removed from the case? I presume it is he to whom you refer as "the original lead detective" What was the date the case was archived? What was the date of publication of Dr Amarals book?
"Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?" ... Hmm, and as we have seen subsequently there was a wealth of suspects and witnesses who it seems did not fit Dr Amaral's theory.
Cursory questioning at the time (with perhaps the exception of Malinka and Murat) allowed whatever evidence which may have been available to solve Madeleine McCann's case in 2007 ... only being looked at in 2014.
Unfortunately the original chief investigator developed his theory immediately (check his book) and ignored all other avenues of investigation or evidence in pursuit of that theory (Paiva 2010). Monumental mistakes in any inquiry ... but particularly reprehensible when a missing child is involved.
I'm sure if you 'google' for the date of Dr Amaral's sacking, the archiving of Madeleine's case and the date of the publication of Dr Amaral's book you will find the answers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 12:46:57 PM
I have seen reports Murat's questioning has been suspended due to being questioned in past on the same matter.. Didn't I say this before? I remember seeing it somewhere before..
It is strange that Murat avoided this questioning when he claimed he was happy to give evidence..
His wife is to be questioned today.
I can well understand him being wary of questioning.
I am absolutely unsure how the fact of him being questioned as an arguido before comes into it. Double jeopardy? but he wasn't charged or taken to trial.
He is on record on a few occasions declaring his readiness to help in any way he could ... suggesting reconstitutions for the Drs McCann and their friends etc.
Is it mandatory under law he does not submit to questioning as a witness?
Or is he requesting arguido status once more? Any one know?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 10, 2014, 12:53:32 PM
Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?
Remind us: When was Dr Amaral removed from the case? I presume it is he to whom you refer as "the original lead detective" What was the date the case was archived? What was the date of publication of Dr Amarals book?
The book was published a few days after the case was archived. It's impossible that judicial secrecy wasn't broken... but that's an issue for the criminal courts to take up, if they ever get around to considering it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Victoria on December 10, 2014, 01:04:14 PM
I can well understand him being wary of questioning.
I am absolutely unsure how the fact of him being questioned as an arguido before comes into it. Double jeopardy? but he wasn't charged or taken to trial.
He is on record on a few occasions declaring his readiness to help in any way he could ... suggesting reconstitutions for the Drs McCann and their friends etc.
Is it mandatory under law he does not submit to questioning as a witness?
Or is he requesting arguido status once more? Any one know?
All seems very strange to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 10, 2014, 01:12:51 PM
"Presumably because the official case was archived for lack of evidence?" ... Hmm, and as we have seen subsequently there was a wealth of suspects and witnesses who it seems did not fit Dr Amaral's theory.
Cursory questioning at the time (with perhaps the exception of Malinka and Murat) allowed whatever evidence which may have been available to solve Madeleine McCann's case in 2007 ... only being looked at in 2014.
Unfortunately the original chief investigator developed his theory immediately (check his book) and ignored all other avenues of investigation or evidence in pursuit of that theory (Paiva 2010). Monumental mistakes in any inquiry ... but particularly reprehensible when a missing child is involved.
I'm sure if you 'google' for the date of Dr Amaral's sacking, the archiving of Madeleine's case and the date of the publication of Dr Amaral's book you will find the answers.
Given we cannot be certain that all documents relating to the case were released after the archiving process how can you be certain that all other avenues were ignored and by implication not investigated? Is that merely your surmise or do you have some factual basis for that opinion which you would care to share with us?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 10, 2014, 02:32:36 PM
I wonder who is the third witness from yesterday and why he hasn't been identified and other two were. Still not identified.. hmm.
Also, has Murat been spoken to today or not .. British media is reporting he has..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 10, 2014, 04:40:21 PM
Given we cannot be certain that all documents relating to the case were released after the archiving process how can you be certain that all other avenues were ignored and by implication not investigated? Is that merely your surmise or do you have some factual basis for that opinion which you would care to share with us?
Would you care to make a statement which might be worthy of discussion then we can discuss; it seems to have escaped your notice that I am not your personal search engine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on December 10, 2014, 04:53:30 PM
Would you care to make a statement which might be worthy of discussion then we can discuss; it seems to have escaped your notice that I am not your personal search engine.
And so it begins !! First the refusal to answer pertinent questions and then the 'ignore' button !!
Textbook example of how to stymie uncomfotable debate !!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 04:55:06 PM
I wonder who is the third witness from yesterday and why he hasn't been identified and other two were. Still not identified.. hmm.
Also, has Murat been spoken to today or not .. British media is reporting he has..
Who knows? he may have turned up and waited with his wife while she was questioned, and they have wrongly assumed that he was also being questioned. Would the PTnews agency spread false information about him not being interviewed today? OK, don't answer that...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 10, 2014, 05:44:47 PM
I can well understand him being wary of questioning.
I am absolutely unsure how the fact of him being questioned as an arguido before comes into it. Double jeopardy? but he wasn't charged or taken to trial.
He is on record on a few occasions declaring his readiness to help in any way he could ... suggesting reconstitutions for the Drs McCann and their friends etc.
Is it mandatory under law he does not submit to questioning as a witness?
Or is he requesting arguido status once more? Any one know?
Probably best to wait for verifiable and reliable news ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on December 10, 2014, 05:55:45 PM
Not a reason to rape anyone.. I hope you agree and with rape on his file of course he should be questioned... if not for Madeleine but for other tourist girls assaults..
I agree, I can envisage the local youths trying it on with the visiting girls and taking it far too far. I don't have a problem with anyone being questioned, I just get concerned with the lynch mob mentality.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 06:46:45 PM
I agree, I can envisage the local youths trying it on with the visiting girls and taking it far too far. I don't have a problem with anyone being questioned, I just get concerned with the lynch mob mentality.
Time to deploy the irony klaxon again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 10, 2014, 06:48:14 PM
I agree, I can envisage the local youths trying it on with the visiting girls and taking it far too far. I don't have a problem with anyone being questioned, I just get concerned with the lynch mob mentality.
It seem 7 years of lynch mob mentality directed towards the McCanns has passed you by
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 10, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
I think he must have been given assurances that he was to be questioned only as a witness. I cannot criticise him for attending the interviews with his lawyer in attendance ... because under the circumstances I would have done exactly that ... but from the PR point of view, not necessarily a good move.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 11, 2014, 03:09:54 PM
I think he must have been given assurances that he was to be questioned only as a witness. I cannot criticise him for attending the interviews with his lawyer in attendance ... because under the circumstances I would have done exactly that ... but from the PR point of view, not necessarily a good move.
However, there was nothing wrong when km had a lawyer in attendance ?
Double standards or what.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 11, 2014, 05:08:43 PM
However, there was nothing wrong when km had a lawyer in attendance ?
Double standards or what.
Did you bother to read my post???
What does "I cannot criticise him" mean to you exactly??
What exactly do you read into "I would have done exactly that"??
Please stop making such an utter idiot of yourself and read and try to comprehend what you read ... just in case you fail to get my meaning, let me make it plain
Dr KATE McCANN WAS PERFECTLY WITHIN HER RIGHTS TO BE ACCOMPANIED BY HER LAWYER AS WAS Mr MURAT.
If that is double standards to you ... I despair ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 11, 2014, 05:24:31 PM
What does "I cannot criticise him" mean to you exactly??
What exactly do you read into "I would have done exactly that"??
Please stop making such an utter idiot of yourself and read and try to comprehend what you read ... just in case you fail to get my meaning, let me make it plain
Dr KATE McCANN WAS PERFECTLY WITHIN HER RIGHTS TO BE ACCOMPANIED BY HER LAWYER AS WAS Mr MURAT.
If that is double standards to you ... I despair ...
The lack of any moral standard is epitomized by those such as you.
Your only concern if for the mccanns.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 11, 2014, 05:28:41 PM
... Eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable, we are told, so unless they knew him well, could easily be mistaken for someone else with a passing resemblance, particularly as it was night-time.
And that is exactly what retrospectively happened. Of all the witnesses who claim to have seen RM there that night, not a single one of them knew what he looked like. Every one of those witnesses made the identification many days later, in retrospect, based in most cases on TV footage, its exactly like the the McCluskey and MSmith retrospective identifications done retrospectively from TV footage - rubbish. None of them knew what he looked like at the time. These witnesses did see and in some cases speak with a bilingual man with glasses that night who was helping with translating, but it was certainly not RM. Read DP rog, he says he thinks the translatorman he spoke with that night may have been RM, but is not sure, it could have been someone else. (That is why he did not fly out to testify with FP RO ROB).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 12, 2014, 06:16:25 PM
Strange.. Years ago I had a dream that a blond police woman found Madeleine. When I saw photo of DCI Wall it made me remember this.
She is renowned for solving cases quickly. IMO best to ignore all open unconcealed carrying sightings including the Smith sighting. It is so unlikely to be the method - it's as iff every investigator has been hypnotised. "When I click my fingers you will wake up and base your whole investigation on a single sighting which probably was not the missing person at all" "You will forget all your experience from other cases that tell you how ridiculous that is" "Click" Hopefully a female brain will not be so easily hypnotised
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 12, 2014, 06:33:43 PM
She is renowned for solving cases quickly. IMO best to ignore all open unconcealed carrying sightings including the Smith sighting. It is so unlikely to be the method - it's as iff every investigator has been hypnotised. "When I click my fingers you will wake up and base your whole investigation on a single sighting which probably was not the missing person at all" "You will forget all your experience from other cases that tell you how ridiculous that is" "Click" Hopefully a female brain will not be so easily hypnotised
Might depend upon what she sees enhancing her reputation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 12, 2014, 06:42:44 PM
Are you calling her professionalism into question? What a surprise.
Note the little word 'might', dear
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 12, 2014, 06:56:34 PM
I don't think gender is the issue.
She will take her own style to the investigation and the timing is probably just about right for a fresh pair of eyes to look at the pertinent evidence which has been separated from all the files which have been amassed over the years.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 12, 2014, 06:58:46 PM
Yes, I could imagine the whole team is getting a bit jaded by now.
Hmmm ... I doubt it, but then we really don't know a thing about the team or how many changes there have been already in personnel.
I am very sorry to see DCI Redwood go, but there is no doubt the investigation can only benefit from the skills and expertise of his replacement who by all accounts is not a person to let the grass grow under her feet.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 12, 2014, 09:35:27 PM
I am thinking about what we are having now: 4 new arguidos and 11 new witnesses.
Is there anything that would 'connect' these arguidos and these witnesses, eh?
Amongst the arguidos is one ex OC worked so this would 'connect' the ex OC witnesses with this person but RM and his wife are 'connection' with SM?
I must say it is a puzzling and unusual combination what we have now.. and it is really strange combination of witnesses..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 13, 2014, 01:29:01 AM
Might depend upon what she sees enhancing her reputation.
Reputation for solving cases quickly. And yes I can give you a link for that. So quickly that the media get left behind. I am seriously hoping that a female brain will discard the 7 year old brainwashed male obsession with open carrying, also the 7yr-old assumption there is more than one perp. Look at other cases and that is not usually the case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: colombosstogey on December 13, 2014, 06:50:07 AM
So the latest news is there is no news. Robert Murat was interviewed for 4 hours. No new aquidos in this 11.
I agree with Robert Murat in what he said lately the only way to solve this mystery is to bring the players back and do a real reconstruction to their timeline. Also bring back the Smiths too.
The key is in the Tapas group. The may have unwillingly seen something, or just by the way they walk etc, might trigger someones memory......who knows.
What have we so far really what are Scotland Yard working on. The bungled burglary....? Well we threw that one out way back on the Mirror forum.
First off its early in the season, so hardly anyone actually on holiday and holiday makers with families i woudlnt expect to be a target unless you were after prams and such like.
And why would a burglar kill a child and take the body away, where too? You would panic. The child wakes up you get out of there. I for one dont think the child did wake up, the twins never did even with all the people in the room afterwards.........
Anyway I hope there is some latest news soon that will close this case, but my heart is heavy....I feel there will never be justice for Madeliene. x
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 12:03:30 PM
So the latest news is there is no news. Robert Murat was interviewed for 4 hours. No new aquidos in this 11.
I agree with Robert Murat in what he said lately the only way to solve this mystery is to bring the players back and do a real reconstruction to their timeline. Also bring back the Smiths too.
The key is in the Tapas group. The may have unwillingly seen something, or just by the way they walk etc, might trigger someones memory......who knows.
What have we so far really what are Scotland Yard working on. The bungled burglary....? Well we threw that one out way back on the Mirror forum.
First off its early in the season, so hardly anyone actually on holiday and holiday makers with families i woudlnt expect to be a target unless you were after prams and such like.
And why would a burglar kill a child and take the body away, where too? You would panic. The child wakes up you get out of there. I for one dont think the child did wake up, the twins never did even with all the people in the room afterwards.........
Anyway I hope there is some latest news soon that will close this case, but my heart is heavy....I feel there will never be justice for Madeliene. x
I disagree there is no news. We are seeing the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot going on ... and very importantly there is a determination to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann underscoring it.
The fact that there is a very active investigation into the known facts of the case happening ... and all at the behest of her parents ... is the only chance there is to find out what happened to Madeleine.
I cannot imagine why it is still propounded that the answer lies in a reconstitution involving seven people who neither saw (with the exception of Jane Tanner) nor had anything at all to do with the crime against Madeleine.
HOLMES will have been fed all the information and very possibly has spat out the names of the people who should be looked at as witnesses who can possibly shed more light and suspects who might have been in place to be involved.
Which is why SY and the PJ are looking at the people they are in Portugal. These are the ones who may hold the key.
That people who are used to using various means to invade premises illicitly, leaving no trace or as little as possible, whose favoured times of entry are just prior to holidaymakers leaving ... I refer to criminal burglars who if encountered are not very nice people ... are always ruled out of the equation on forums is quite extraordinary. They have the skills, they have the criminal contacts. However burglars out ... innocent holidaymakers in. Didn't make sense in 2007 doesn't make sense today.
Maybe they weren't after prams ... or dead children. Maybe the intended target was a beautiful blue eyed, blonde little girl.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on December 13, 2014, 12:27:38 PM
I disagree there is no news. We are seeing the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot going on ... and very importantly there is a determination to find out what happened to Madeleine McCann underscoring it.
The fact that there is a very active investigation into the known facts of the case happening ... and all at the behest of her parents ... is the only chance there is to find out what happened to Madeleine.
I cannot imagine why it is still propounded that the answer lies in a reconstitution involving seven people who neither saw (with the exception of Jane Tanner) nor had anything at all to do with the crime against Madeleine.
HOLMES will have been fed all the information and very possibly has spat out the names of the people who should be looked at as witnesses who can possibly shed more light and suspects who might have been in place to be involved.
Which is why SY and the PJ are looking at the people they are in Portugal. These are the ones who may hold the key.
That people who are used to using various means to invade premises illicitly, leaving no trace or as little as possible, whose favoured times of entry are just prior to holidaymakers leaving ... I refer to criminal burglars who if encountered are not very nice people ... are always ruled out of the equation on forums is quite extraordinary. They have the skills, they have the criminal contacts. However burglars out ... innocent holidaymakers in. Didn't make sense in 2007 doesn't make sense today.
Maybe they weren't after prams ... or dead children. Maybe the intended target was a beautiful blue eyed, blonde little girl.
The fact that there is a very active investigation into the known facts of the case happening ... and all at the behest of her parents ... is the only chance there is to find out what happened to Madeleine.
Rubbish, Her parents could just tell the truth, that's the best way of finding Maddie.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 13, 2014, 12:54:55 PM
I am thinking about what we are having now: 4 new arguidos and 11 new witnesses.
Is there anything that would 'connect' these arguidos and these witnesses, eh?
Amongst the arguidos is one ex OC worked so this would 'connect' the ex OC witnesses with this person but RM and his wife are 'connection' with SM?
I must say it is a puzzling and unusual combination what we have now.. and it is really strange combination of witnesses..
An issue, IMO, is that we're getting scraps of "news", much of which isn't verified.
Unlike a TV drama such as The Missing, there aren't necessarily any links for the public to attempt to connect. Not that that stops speculation.
And, unlike a TV drama, this is a real one, involving real people and a real investigation.
The police may be interviewing these people as nothing more than routine plod work, expanding the circle of ground under their feet, cross-checking, but also hoping that some detail or other may lead somewhere, possibly to someone whose name has never even arisen in connection with the case.
The lack of a proper police/media conduit and articles by the tabloids with dodgy sources are leading to a huge amount of possibly unwarranted speculation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 13, 2014, 08:06:52 PM
An issue, IMO, is that we're getting scraps of "news", much of which isn't verified.
Unlike a TV drama such as The Missing, there aren't necessarily any links for the public to attempt to connect. Not that that stops speculation.
And, unlike a TV drama, this is a real one, involving real people and a real investigation.
The police may be interviewing these people as nothing more than routine plod work, expanding the circle of ground under their feet, cross-checking, but also hoping that some detail or other may lead somewhere, possibly to someone whose name has never even arisen in connection with the case.
The lack of a proper police/media conduit and articles by the tabloids with dodgy sources are leading to a huge amount of possibly unwarranted speculation.
But the 4 are still arguidos and 11 are still witnesses. This is what I am pointing out.. That there might be something going on behind the screen that we have no clue about due to no media coverage but these are the facts: 4 arguidos and 11 witnesses.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 13, 2014, 08:26:05 PM
But the 4 are still arguidos and 11 are still witnesses. This is what I am pointing out.. That there might be something going on behind the screen that we have no clue about due to no media coverage but these are the facts: 4 arguidos and 11 witnesses.
Do we know if the arguidos are of that status as a result of the police making them so or as the result of a request by themselves for that status?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 09:34:22 PM
If this information is being revealed to journalists ... it begs the question, what else is being leached from the heart of the investigation, by whom and to whom?
Who decides what is to be leaked or what is not to be leaked and who decides what spin is to be put on it for public consumption?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 13, 2014, 09:38:17 PM
I suppose it would depend upon whether it was an offical leak or an unofficial leak.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 09:42:43 PM
But the 4 are still arguidos and 11 are still witnesses. This is what I am pointing out.. That there might be something going on behind the screen that we have no clue about due to no media coverage but these are the facts: 4 arguidos and 11 witnesses.
Yes, I understand that.
However... a few questions.
If, indeed, the four alleged arguidos were so constituted, no one knows why. It may be McCann-related or not. It may be the nature of the questions submitted which may have been considered on the cusp of a legal threshold. There could have been a misunderstanding over the interpretation of the legal situation in an international context. There may have been McCann-related questions, but which may have their origin in suspected non-related activities of a potentially illegal nature. No one knows whether those questioned requested arguido status themselves (even if only to benefit from legal advice in an unfamiliar situation).
I'm just being cautious.
They may all be innocent people. If that's the case, they don't deserve to have wild speculation posted about them any more than the McCanns and their friends do.
My thought is in general terms, not about any specific poster.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 13, 2014, 10:38:13 PM
If, indeed, the four alleged arguidos were so constituted, no one knows why. It may be McCann-related or not. It may be the nature of the questions submitted which may have been considered on the cusp of a legal threshold. There could have been a misunderstanding over the interpretation of the legal situation in an international context. There may have been McCann-related questions, but which may have their origin in suspected non-related activities of a potentially illegal nature. No one knows whether those questioned requested arguido status themselves (even if only to benefit from legal advice in an unfamiliar situation).
I'm just being cautious.
They may all be innocent people. If that's the case, they don't deserve to have wild speculation posted about them any more than the McCanns and their friends do.
My thought is in general terms, not about any specific poster.
Of course. I agree with you 100%. I just pointed out at that because people are still in old mind set while the investigation seems to be moving.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 13, 2014, 10:59:00 PM
Murat resembled 2 other people one of which was David Payne, in actually uncanny likeness to him and i would think he would have been walking around at that time. ....
DP was not the man mistaken for RM that night. Here are two undisputable proofs of that.
1. FP testified about seeing the man that night. Assuming she does know what her OH looks like, it was not DP she saw.
2. DP himself testified about seeing and speaking to this man that night. I have checked and assure you there were no full-length mirrors in the stairwell area. Therefore the man DP saw was not DP.
It says little for SY's detective skills if they have not yet identified this man yet - it should be easy with their resources - it was definitely not RM, not DP, not AS, not JH. It was a bilingual male, probably with glasses. who was helping to translate that night , an innocent helper.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 13, 2014, 11:11:24 PM
I do feel sorry for RM and his wife. He is fairly, newly married with a young family and seven years later, he still has the McCann history, His old arquido status and sighting of him near 5A, dragging him down. He did however say that he was prepared to answer the necessary questions if asked. I hope this case will be solved soon, for the sake of many innocent people.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 11:27:41 PM
Of course. I agree with you 100%. I just pointed out at that because people are still in old mind set while the investigation seems to be moving.
Me too ... they are all definitely innocent until there is enough evidence found to change that status. There are indeed people around who are stuck in the past to the extent of being unable to see the wider picture, but did the Flat Earth Society ever disband?
back to the latest news
If I were in the situation of having to present myself for questioning either as a witness or arguido in the case of a missing child, if I could afford to, I would definitely instruct a lawyer to accompany me. Just common sense.
I find the press reports (if they are to be believed?) that Robert Murat did not answer questions already asked as an arguido a bit confusing.
When he was an arguido he had the right to refuse to answer incriminating questions and I am sure his lawyer at the time would so advise.
SY would of course already have a transcript of his interview question and anwers ... it is interesting that there appears to be so many for which they require clarification ... and it is interesting that there is resistance to providing that, particularly as he is on record on quite a few occasions over the years stating his eagerness to help in any way he can.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 13, 2014, 11:27:48 PM
I do feel sorry for RM and his wife. He is fairly, newly married with a young family and seven years later, he still has the McCann history, His old arquido status and sighting of him near 5A, dragging him down. ...
Me too. And it is because SY appear to not have the grassroots investigative ability to realise that RM was certainly not the man seen that night by DP FP RO ROB SB and [Name removed]. Ask the GNR officers whom this man was seen talking to, by most of those witnesses - 100% definite it was not RM.
And as for the [Name removed] sighting morning 4th in a striped top - that was not RM she saw - there are almost simultaneous photos of (a) RM in blue tshirt and jeans morning 4th exactly as he said (b) the different man in a striped top whom [Name removed] saw morning 4th IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 13, 2014, 11:30:32 PM
I do feel sorry for RM and his wife. He is fairly, newly married with a young family and seven years later, he still has the McCann history, His old arquido status and sighting of him near 5A, dragging him down. He did however say that he was prepared to answer the necessary questions if asked. I hope this case will be solved soon, for the sake of many innocent people.
Why? He chose to get involved and behave in a manner which aroused suspicion. I expect he answered nearly every question on Friday with "I refer you to the answer I gave in my original statements."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 11:31:30 PM
DP was not the man mistaken for RM that night. Here are two undisputable proofs of that.
1. FP testified about seeing the man that night. Assuming she does know what her OH looks like, it was not DP she saw.
2. DP himself testified about seeing and speaking to this man that night. I have checked and assure you there were no full-length mirrors in the stairwell area. Therefore the man DP saw was not DP.
It says little for SY's detective skills if they have not yet identified this man yet - it should be easy with their resources - it was definitely not RM, not DP, not AS, not JH. It was a bilingual male, probably with glasses. who was helping to translate that night , an innocent helper.
Then it should have been very simple to find out who he was if he was taking such a prominent part in the proceedings ... the police should have had a note of his name and contact details.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 13, 2014, 11:35:29 PM
Me too. And it is because SY appear to not have the grassroots investigative ability to realise that RM was certainly not the man seen that night by DP FP RO ROB SB and [Name removed]. Ask the GNR officers whom this man was seen talking to, by most of those witnesses - 100% definite it was not RM.
And as for the [Name removed] sighting morning 4th in a striped top - that was not RM she saw - there are almost simultaneous photos of (a) RM in blue tshirt and jeans morning 4th exactly as he said (b) the different man in a striped top whom [Name removed] saw morning 4th IMO.
We really have no idea of the direction SY are taking with their current question and answer sessions ... I am sure HOLMES will be having a high old time with it all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 13, 2014, 11:51:24 PM
We really have no idea of the direction SY are taking with their current question and answer sessions ... I am sure HOLMES will be having a high old time with it all.
Computer says no... 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 13, 2014, 11:54:05 PM
Why? He chose to get involved and behave in a manner which aroused suspicion. I expect he answered nearly every question on Friday with "I refer you to the answer I gave in my original statements."
Hi Misty, Are you referring to now or seven years ago?(In bold)
I was referring to the seven years that he has been associated with the case and whether suspicious or not to some, there is no evidence, as yet against him, but he is still discussed as being suspicious and that cannot be a good thing for a family to have to live with......
We know the pain, that suspicion is causing the McCann family.
Lets hope that SC get to the bottom of all this in the very near future.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 12:10:25 AM
Hi Misty, Are you referring to now or seven years ago?(In bold)
I was referring to the seven years that he has been associated with the case and whether suspicious or not to some, there is no evidence, as yet against him, but he is still discussed as being suspicious and that cannot be a good thing for a family to have to live with......
We know the pain, that suspicion is causing the McCann family.
Lets hope that SC get to the bottom of all this in the very near future.
Surely greater safeguards could have been put in place with regard to the confidentiality of all the persons called for questioning either as witnesses or arguidos.
Portugal is a country with Judicial secrecy laws; why were these identities not protected by them? It seems nothing has been learned from the constant drip of misinformation from 'sources' in 2007.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 12:19:17 AM
Surely greater safeguards could have been put in place with regard to the confidentiality of all the persons called for questioning either as witnesses or arguidos.
Portugal is a country with Judicial secrecy laws; why were these identities not protected by them? It seems nothing has been learned from the constant drip of misinformation from 'sources' in 2007.
I agree Brietta, but it seems the names of these witnesses were leaked from somewhere weeks ago.
I think a police presence preventing Reporters and photographers from invading, the immediate area of investigation area, would have been welcomed by these witnesses too.
It must have been distressing for those attending IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 12:25:35 AM
Hi Misty, Are you referring to now or seven years ago?(In bold)
I was referring to the seven years that he has been associated with the case and whether suspicious or not to some, there is no evidence, as yet against him, but he is still discussed as being suspicious and that cannot be a good thing for a family to have to live with......
We know the pain, that suspicion is causing the McCann family.
Lets hope that SC get to the bottom of all this in the very near future.
There are reasons he was under scrutiny then and reasons why he is still of interest to the investigation now. Both he & his wife, who, if you believe their testimonies, have no reason to be of any relevance to the authorities. None of the other police translators have come under suspicion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 12:42:57 AM
There are reasons he was under scrutiny then and reasons why he is still of interest to the investigation now. Both he & his wife, who, if you believe their testimonies, have no reason to be of any relevance to the authorities. None of the other police translators have come under suspicion.
That is of course true, but how many of the other translators were British,were not professional translators, were sighted by several people near 5A, only arrived very recently in PDL, lived close to 5A, Had a German (married) girlfriend, had a statement about some disgusting acts performed by them, made by a childhood friend, had a reporter complain that they were strange and suspicious. On top of all that the PJ thought he asked too many questions and put him under surveillance, very shortly after he started helping them.
Maybe the police wanted to know more about some of the people he was involved with, or it could be more. We do not know and are only speculating on possibilities.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 12:46:35 AM
I know that we quite often say things get lost in translation ... does that apply to carefully marking out the Murat property from Google Maps as the house next door? http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P4/04_VOLUME_IVa_Page_959.jpg
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on December 14, 2014, 12:49:54 AM
Murat and his wife each have an alibi for that evening. Murat was with his mother eating cheese sandwiches and his wife was in her church. They therefore cannot be witnessing anything about Madeleine. I think this questioning was about something else, i.e nothing to do with them directly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
Then it should have been very simple to find out who he was if he was taking such a prominent part in the proceedings ... the police should have had a note of his name and contact details.
Yes should be easy. For a start SY/PJ could simply ask the first 5 GNR officers at the scene: "in addition to the lady SB, do you remember a man who was also helping to translate that night?" IMO at least 2 of them will say yes (if you don't believe me, see ROB statement). Then ask those GNR officers "Was it RM?". They will certainly say no (see their statements of 2007 they all say definitely RM was not there). So just that simple procedure would prove once and for all that translatorman that night was not RM. But I doubt the illogical investigation then or now has ever done it. Nor studied in depth early photos.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 01:02:14 AM
Murat and his wife each have an alibi for that evening. Murat was with his mother eating cheese sandwiches and his wife was in her church. They therefore cannot be witnessing anything about Madeleine. I think this questioning was about something else, i.e nothing to do with them directly.
There is only one other person who links almost all of the witnesses currently being questioned.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 01:06:47 AM
Yes should be easy. For a start SY/PJ could simply ask the first 5 GNR officers at the scene: "in addition to the lady SB, do you remember a man who was also helping to translate that night?" IMO at least 2 of them will say yes (if you don't believe me, see ROB statement). Then ask those GNR officers "Was it RM?". They will certainly say no (see their statements of 2007 they all say definitely RM was not there). So just that simple procedure would prove once and for all that translatorman that night was not RM. But I doubt the illogical investigation then or now has ever done it. Nor studied in depth early photos.
All the officers who were asked whether or not they saw RM replied "No" as was the answer from some of the OC staff who were also asked, but if I remember correctly SB seemed confused and although she knew the family she did not know RM. I could be wrong and will check that out again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:12:16 AM
And another simple logical step. In early statement witness SB recommended to PJ that PJ should speak to resident witnesses PW and JW and BW (expecting them to confirm that RM was there that night). The response from all 3 (who unlike the other witnesses actually knew what RM looked like) was a resounding triple NO, definitely not there. It does not require much brains to see that the obvious question to ask those same 3 witnesses now is "Was there a different male helping translate that night?".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 01:16:43 AM
SB 2nd statement 15th may
Robert Murat doesn't seem to be mentioned in her first statement
Processos Vol V
Pages 1289 – 1290
Witness Statement
Silvia María Correio Ramos Batista
Date: 2007 – 05 – 15
She is responsible for maintenance of the OC resort in P da L. Because of her profession she knows many people from the English community who are resident in P da L.
She knows the Murat family, had done for about 30 years. Mainly Mr Murat and his wife, Jenny. Mr Murat was linked to a civil construction business and the development of tourist resorts, in Salema as far as she knows. Mr Murat died some years ago.
The Murats live in a house near to the OC, called Casa Liliana. When asked she says she does not remember whether the Murats have a son.
When asked, she says that on the night of Madeleine’s disappearance, 3rd May, she was called by her boss at about 22.30. As she lives in Lagos, she arrived shortly afterwards at the resort. There were about 60 people close to apartment 5 A, helping to look for the girl.
She remembers, but is not absolutely certain, given the time that has passed, that from the start, there was an individual helping to look for Madeleine, about 1.70 tall, with sort, light brown hair, with thin framed, brown glasses, who was also helping to search.
She does not remember at what time she saw him. She does not remember how he was dressed. She does not remember whom he was with or know if he arrived on foot or by car.
The same individual, she knew later to be the son of the Murat’s, Robert Murat.
Robert speaks fluent English and Portuguese. He helped the GNR in Lagos, and later the PJ to translate the witness statements of some English individuals.
In principal, she thinks it should be possible to confirm whether Murat was there on the date that Madeleine disappeared as well as other details, with Paul and June from the Duke of Holland bar and Mr Byron from the property administration company JNB in P da L.
She clarifies that on Saturday (05-05-2007) or Sunday (06-05-2007) or even Monday (07-05-2007) she spoke to Robert for the first time, during breaks between interviews, where he was acting as translator.
She describes him as a pleasant and easy going individual. He was quite open and extrovert in the conversations with her, he never spoke of anything personal.
Reads, ratifies, signs.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:18:43 AM
All the officers who were asked whether or not they saw RM replied "No" as was the answer from some of the OC staff who were also asked, but if I remember correctly SB seemed confused and although she knew the family she did not know RM. I could be wrong and will check that out again.
Correct, SB did know of his parents, but certainly did not even know what RM looked like. And BTW nor did DP nor FP nor ROB nor RO nor CP nor [Name removed] nor RB. The common factor shared by all (100%) of those people who claimed RM was there that night, is that they all had absolutely no idea what he looked like.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 01:25:40 AM
So......By now they must know, surely who this man was, who so closely resembled him. Who was the Realty man who looked a lot like him.
His name escapes me.
Could he have been there that night helping. I believe he lived nearby.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:31:57 AM
Correct, SB did know of his parents, but certainly did not even know what RM looked like. And BTW nor did DP nor FP nor ROB nor RO nor CP nor [Name removed] nor RB. The common factor shared by all (100%) of those people who claimed RM was there that night, is that they all had absolutely no idea what he looked like.
Did any of the GNR officers who attended that night have prior knowledge of Robert Murat? Do you not find it odd that several people present identified a man who looked like him but none of the officers made the same "error"?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:43:38 AM
EXCLUSIVE: Brazilians in the frame in Madeleine hunt The behaviour of a Brazilian couple who were seen acting suspiciously around the time of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance is now being re-examined by Portuguese police......
Actually the Express, for a change, was not making it up, they are reporting on a real diligence. The catamaran is "Tropics"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 01:45:12 AM
Yes should be easy. For a start SY/PJ could simply ask the first 5 GNR officers at the scene: "in addition to the lady SB, do you remember a man who was also helping to translate that night?" IMO at least 2 of them will say yes (if you don't believe me, see ROB statement). Then ask those GNR officers "Was it RM?". They will certainly say no (see their statements of 2007 they all say definitely RM was not there). So just that simple procedure would prove once and for all that translatorman that night was not RM. But I doubt the illogical investigation then or now has ever done it. Nor studied in depth early photos.
Do SY have the right to barge into Portugal to demand answers from GNR officers?
There should already be a list of names with this man's name and contact details available on it ... protocols dictate that victims should be protected from intrusion by any Tom, Dick or Harry. Obviously not a high priority as far as the police were concerned, Yvonne Martin was waved through without let or hindrance now it seems we have anonymous translators free to come and go as they pleased.
Really not good enough. If officers were busy, as they undoubtedly were, one of the senior management could have been delegated to the task of taking names.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:50:14 AM
Did any of the GNR officers who attended that night have prior knowledge of Robert Murat? Do you not find it odd that several people present identified a man who looked like him but none of the officers made the same "error"?
IIRC they did, but I might be wrong, maybe you could check the the GNR statements? So we can add them to these lists Peeps who had no idea what he looked like but claimed he was there: DP FP ROB RO SB CP [Name removed] RB. Peeps who did know what he looked like and confirm he was definitely not there: PW JW BW.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 01:53:35 AM
Actually the Express, for a change, was not making it up, they are reporting on a real diligence. The catamaran is "Tropics"
Processos Volume IV
Pages 854-855
External Inquiry Report
Date: 2007/05/09 Place: Praia da Luz - Lagos Responsible Officers: Raquel Neves and Tony Almeida, Inspectors Description and result of the inquiry:
In the sequence of information received by this Policia Judiciaria on this date, at around 11H40, we went to the Video Club “Eureka Services", located in Praia da Luz - Lagos, in order to contact Mr. S**** R******, the owner of the establishment. … Following an informal conversation, we were informed by that individual that he had remembered that on the previous Thursday, 3rd May, 2007, at the time he was closing up his shop, around 22h45, a small vehicle, whose make, model and number plate he does not remember, the only identifying element he captured was the colour of the vehicle—a dull red, almost as if the colour has been burnt off, sic, due to prolonged exposure to sunlight. Inside the vehicle, he could only make out the presence of one person, as well as a dog in the front passenger's seat. … At the moment that said vehicle passed him, he observed that the driver was looking towards the back seat . Mr R***** affirms that he did not have, at that time, the opportunity to determine what was in the back of the car. … When questioned, he further noted that he recognised the identity of the driver, indicating that it was a female, of Brazilian nationality, 1,70 cm in height, 25/26 years of age, slim with lightly coloured skin. He even added her name, S*** S***** because she and her partner had previously worked at his parents’ farm. … Due to minor arguments caused by the misuse of tools, involving mainly the woman’s companion identified as E***** S*****, the latter, also of Brazilian nationality, and Mr. R*****, effectively came to blows, and the services of the couple were concluded. … He adds that some of the physical aggressions he suffered in Marina de Lagos, had required help from the local police; … After the couple were fired, he found out that they went to work in the Marina de Lagos, in the area of repairs/maintenance of boats, and more concretely, for a boat which was moored there and that they it as their residence. He furthers that it was a catamaran of high dimensions with the name "TROPICS"; … Another individual called R***** also worked in that place with the couple. R*****’s telephone number is xxxxxxxxx, and he may help in determining other elements; … He only remembered the episode at this point, because in making some associations, given the disappearance of the child, it reminded of him of this couple who mentioned that they had an exceptional desire to have a child of their own; … After the facts occurred, he also stated that they had left Marina de Lagos, as the vessel was no longer found in that place.
When questioned about the physical characteristics of E**** S*****, he identified him as being bald, with a strong build, around 1,70 m in height, dark skin tone and around 42 years of age.
Signed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 01:54:26 AM
Do SY have the right to barge into Portugal to demand answers from GNR officers?...
SY currently can request through the proper methods for permission to have the PJ question witnesses in Portugal, I see no reason why that should exclude the first GNR officers at the scene, important witnesses methinks. Have a read of ROB rog. He saw translatorman translating between some angry brit searchers and GNR officers that night, calming down the searchers. So why not ask those GNR now about this? IMO it would be valuable because IMO they would confirm yes that happened but it certainly wasnt RM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 02:04:43 AM
@Anna. It's an extremely rare example of a UK tabloid article about this case without a single mistake in it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 02:10:58 AM
I can't see a boat called Tropics in the Maritime list. Should it be Tropico?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 02:13:49 AM
@Anna. It's an extremely rare example of a UK tabloid article about this case without a single mistake in it
It is indeed, but can not find "Tropics" in boat movements, only "Tropica". I think it was their home, so they probably moved away by car etc, or else, I missed something.
I will check again, later
This could have been connected to the pizza parlour owner's? sighting at the Marina, or near.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 02:15:30 AM
SY currently can request through the proper methods for permission to have the PJ question witnesses in Portugal, I see no reason why that should exclude the first GNR officers at the scene, important witnesses methinks. Have a read of ROB rog. He saw translatorman translating between some angry brit searchers and GNR officers that night, calming down the searchers. So why not ask those GNR now about this? IMO it would be valuable because IMO they would confirm yes that happened but it certainly wasnt RM
I have never suggested it was him. It is my opinion that it would have provided him with a better alibi, if he needed one, than being at home with his mother.
I am still very much of the opinion that it was remiss to have translators and searchers out and about without a name check in place.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 02:21:24 AM
I have never suggested it was him. It is my opinion that it would have provided him with a better alibi, if he needed one, than being at home with his mother.
I am still very much of the opinion that it was remiss to have translators and searchers out and about without a name check in place.
At first there were two GNR who BTW arrived very speedily after they were phoned at 10.42pm. Are you suggesting that on arrival they should have written down the names of all the hundred or so searchers present when they arrived?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 02:21:35 AM
IIRC they did, but I might be wrong, maybe you could check the the GNR statements? So we can add them to these lists Peeps who had no idea what he looked like but claimed he was there: DP FP ROB RO SB CP [Name removed] RB. Peeps who did know what he looked like and confirm he was definitely not there: PW JW BW.
I have read the GNR statements & each one stated that they didn't see RM there on the night of the 3rd into the early hours. What isn't clear is whether they even knew what RM looked like (I recall Bridget O'Donnell's reference to the GNR officer who failed to recognise Madeleine's photograph). Several of the statements were not made until 2 weeks after the event. Only Reis Santos is definitely known to RM - yet there is no statement on file from the officer Santos who was there that night. BW - yes, he was already searching at 9.45, so I don't think I'd trust his memory. Let me make it clear - I do not think RM was the translator. I am more interested in who was Smokingman - someone seen before the GNR were on the scene.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 02:25:37 AM
At first there were two GNR who BTW arrived very speedily after they were phoned at 10.42pm. Are you suggesting that on arrival they should have written down the names of all the hundred or so searchers present when they arrived?
I have already suggested there could have been delegation ... it is important to know who is in search parties and where they have searched.
However at the moment I am more interested in reading about the Brazilian couple, as I know you are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 02:28:43 AM
I have read the GNR statements & each one stated that they didn't see RM there on the night of the 3rd into the early hours. What isn't clear is whether they even knew what RM looked like (I recall Bridget O'Donnell's reference to the GNR officer who failed to recognise Madeleine's photograph). Several of the statements were not made until 2 weeks after the event. Only Reis Santos is definitely known to RM - yet there is no statement on file from the officer Santos who was there that night. BW - yes, he was already searching at 9.45, so I don't think I'd trust his memory. Let me make it clear - I do not think RM was the translator. I am more interested in who was Smokingman - someone seen before the GNR were on the scene.
Guess you mean smokingman seen that night by witness [Name removed]? As [Name removed] states he is the same as stripetopman seen by [Name removed] next morning. And it's elementary to prove he was not RM.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 02:46:12 AM
Guess you mean smokingman seen that night by witness [Name removed]? As [Name removed] states he is the same as stripetopman seen by [Name removed] next morning. And it's elementary to prove he was not RM.
Stripetop man was DP. DP wasn't idling in a doorway smoking. It's a pity [Name removed]/AW statements of 4th May to the PJ are also missing from the public files. I wonder why?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 02:54:24 AM
I can't see a boat called Tropics in the Maritime list. Should it be Tropico?
Tropico didn't come in until 9th may and was there a while. I think this vessel must have been a phantom, or there was an error in recording of the vessels going out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 03:03:24 AM
Stripetop man was DP. DP wasn't idling in a doorway smoking. It's a pity [Name removed]/AW statements of 4th May to the PJ are also missing from the public files. I wonder why?
[Name removed] states smokingman evening 3rd is same as stripetop morning 4th. [Name removed] would have recognised DP, having eaten in same restaurant, and played tennis in same group. Definitely IMO there was a different stripetop man morning 4th who is not DP and not RM.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 03:12:11 AM
[Name removed] states smokingman evening 3rd is same as stripetop morning 4th. [Name removed] would have recognised DP, having eaten in same restaurant, and played tennis in same group. Definitely IMO there was a different stripetop man morning 4th who is not DP and not RM.
I thought [Name removed] merely referred to the change of clothing from a striped t-shirt in the morning? Maybe she didn't have a close-up view of the morning man in the T-shirt as opposed to later in the day when she was engaged in conversation later with RM?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 03:17:00 AM
Tropico didn't come in until 9th may and was there a while. I think this vessel must have been a phantom, or there was an error in recording of the vessels going out.
There are two harbours at Lagos. The documents maybe cover only the inner harbour? See the jetty where boats probably log in and out (just south of the footbridge). Boats going in or out of outer harbour do not pass it. And the outer harbour is more likely to be where a cat is repaired? https://goo.gl/maps/nCe2P
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 14, 2014, 03:19:09 AM
José Carlos Leal Pimental - Statement, 16 May 2007
Processos Volume V
Pages 1346 – 1347
Witness Statement
José Carlos Leal Pimental
Date: 2007 – 05 – 16
Occupation: GNR Officer *snip* When asked about Robert Murat, he says that he does not remember having seen him at dawn, having seen him during the day on 4th May in the afternoon at about 17.00- 18.00. He saw Murat pass by close to the mobile post accompanied by Officer Costa. At this time he was searching, he (RM) appeared with roll of electrical cable, that he was going to give to the mobile GNR post in the Rua Agostinho da Silva.
The witness saw him that night at about 22.30 in the Tapas restaurant. He was sitting at a table with some OC employees, including, as he recalls, Silvia responsible for maintenance at the resort.
"at about 22.30 in the Tapas restaurant" on 4th May
.....with Sylvia Batista. Do you believe she was also mistaken when she identified RM as the man she had seen? What was a translator doing in the Tapas bar speaking with witnesses?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on December 14, 2014, 01:32:32 PM
.....with Sylvia Batista. Do you believe she was also mistaken when she identified RM as the man she had seen? What was a translator doing in the Tapas bar speaking with witnesses?
I thought SB was an unreliable witness ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on December 14, 2014, 01:59:57 PM
IMO, there is an awful lot of room for confusion.
- SB "later learned" that the translator was RM... but then appears to have changed her mind. Was that an early assumption as he was indeed helping to translate and to generally offer assistance?
- The GNR officer is reported to have stated that "as he recalls" SB was in the Tapas restaurant. What did the GNR officer actually say? Was it "as far as I can recall"? He remembered a lady who may well have been SB?
(One GNR officer on the scene early that evening had stated that he was given to underestand that Sky had been contacted - when that wasn't the case at that point. Rachael had contacted the wife of someone she knew in the BBC, so there was obviously a mix-up in recollection / underestanding there.)
There doesn't appear to have been any cross-checking on this, perhaps because of the workload and it may not have seemed of any importance at the time.
I don't find anything odd about RM and other people getting together to chat about a major event in a village. RM's obligation as an interpreter was to maintain the confidentiality of the content of the witness statements in which he was involved, not that he couldn't chat about the case in general.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 02:00:19 PM
It has been suggested that DCI Hall may bring a different dynamic to the case ... it certainly seems true of the PJ co-ordinator Ana Paulo Rito ... who seems to be busy tying up loose ends.
I would think if the Express have the story right, that this Brazilian couple have neither been ruled in or out of the inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.
***snip After British detectives sat in on interviews in Faro with witnesses last week, the Sunday Express can reveal Policia Judiciaria co-ordinator Ana Paula Rito is taking a broader look at leads which may not have been fully pursued.
She is now keen to learn more about the Brazilian couple, who are said to have expressed a strong desire to have a child when they were in the Algarve in May 2007 when Madeleine vanished.
A few days after Madeleine vanished from flat 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, a British man came forward with his concerns about the couple and was interviewed by Portuguese detectives. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/546818/Brazilian-couple-who-wanted-a-child-re-examined-in-Madeleine-hunt?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-express-uk-news+%28Daily+Express+%3A%3A+UK+Feed%29
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 04:16:14 PM
"To access the marina you have to call the marina office so they can open the pedestrian bridge to let you out so if you want an early start you need to stay on the visitors/check-in pontoon outside the marina as the bridge didn't open till 8am in the summer and later in the off season." http://www.sailblogs.com/member/kaivalya37/?xjMsgID=159685
The key words are "check-in pontoon". You can see it here https://goo.gl/maps/jnF9G Now zoom out and notice it controls access to the inner marina only. Boatsaccessing the outer harbour do not pass this jetty and therefore have no check-in or check-out documentation. This IMO explains why "Tropics" is not in the huge lists of arrivals/departures for Lagos marina in the files. IMO it was probably moored in the outer harbour, and so would not be in the arrival/departure lists which are IMO for the inner harbour only
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 14, 2014, 06:25:06 PM
All the officers who were asked whether or not they saw RM replied "No" as was the answer from some of the OC staff who were also asked, but if I remember correctly SB seemed confused and although she knew the family she did not know RM. I could be wrong and will check that out again.
Does anyone else not find it odd, to know someone for 30 years and not know they have children?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on December 14, 2014, 06:48:05 PM
It has been suggested that DCI Hall may bring a different dynamic to the case ... it certainly seems true of the PJ co-ordinator Ana Paulo Rito ... who seems to be busy tying up loose ends.
I would think if the Express have the story right, that this Brazilian couple have neither been ruled in or out of the inquiry into Madeleine's disappearance.
***snip After British detectives sat in on interviews in Faro with witnesses last week, the Sunday Express can reveal Policia Judiciaria co-ordinator Ana Paula Rito is taking a broader look at leads which may not have been fully pursued.
She is now keen to learn more about the Brazilian couple, who are said to have expressed a strong desire to have a child when they were in the Algarve in May 2007 when Madeleine vanished.
A few days after Madeleine vanished from flat 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, a British man came forward with his concerns about the couple and was interviewed by Portuguese detectives. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/546818/Brazilian-couple-who-wanted-a-child-re-examined-in-Madeleine-hunt?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-express-uk-news+%28Daily+Express+%3A%3A+UK+Feed%29
Good to see the Portuguese looking at this sort of lead.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 09:51:01 PM
Maybe it was unusual to see the woman in that area.
He knew that they wanted a child.
He heard of the disappearance of a British child and linked the info.
They were no longer at their regular address, when the police checked it out.
IIRC The boat left that night/day. (If they left swiftly by boat, maybe there was an abandoned red, car....It's not mentioned though)
The Portuguese police, have gathered all the evidence of this report and have decided to investigate.
It sounds like the right thing to do.........eliminate as many possibilities as they can.
Ana Paulo Rito has obviously found relevant leads which for one reason or another have not been followed through to what, as far as she is concerned, is a satisfactory conclusion.
Tracing this couple and finding out if they have any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance is good investigative practice. It may not lead to a satisfactory conclusion but at least it now seems things which were overlooked in the past are being addressed now.
I don't think we need to know every move and every lead being followed the PJ and SY. If these people did take Madeleine they now know that they are being looked for. I feel this is putting her at unnecessary risk. The leaks to the press really must be stopped.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 14, 2014, 10:46:15 PM
But all the witness saw in the car was a woman and a dog.
But he did note her unusual behaviour.
What did she keep checking in the back seat? A restrained child? A child coming to from drugs?
Normally dogs travel in the back of a vehicle. Perhaps the witness had never seen this dog travelling in the front passenger seat before? and he thought it odd.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 14, 2014, 10:59:32 PM
What did she keep checking in the back seat? A restrained child? A child coming to from drugs?
Normally dogs travel in the back of a vehicle. Perhaps the witness had never seen this dog travelling in the front passenger seat before? and he thought it odd.
One possibility is her own baby in a babyseat on the backseat. Recommended for some babyseats IIRC. Safer in back anyway. Dog on front seat to keep it away from her baby. Also remember this was 10.45pm. That would be a very relaxed getaway wouldn't it? 1 mph?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on December 14, 2014, 11:05:43 PM
One possibility is her own baby in a babyseat on the backseat. Recommended for some babyseats IIRC. Safer in back anyway. Dog on front seat to keep it away from her baby. Also remember this was 10.45pm. That would be a very relaxed getaway wouldn't it? 1 mph?
I thought she couldn't have children?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 11:06:02 PM
Ana Paulo Rito has obviously found relevant leads which for one reason or another have not been followed through to what, as far as she is concerned, is a satisfactory conclusion.
Tracing this couple and finding out if they have any involvement in Madeleine's disappearance is good investigative practice. It may not lead to a satisfactory conclusion but at least it now seems things which were overlooked in the past are being addressed now.
I don't think we need to know every move and every lead being followed the PJ and SY. If these people did take Madeleine they now know that they are being looked for. I feel this is putting her at unnecessary risk. The leaks to the press really must be stopped.
(In bold) It's Like asking a leopard to change it's spots, Brietta. I don't think it will ever happen, but like you I wish it would.
This lady is tying all the loose ends up and hopefully it will pay off.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 14, 2014, 11:07:41 PM
Was the playground photo of the man in the background ever identified I know there was speculation of him being a police man . This story makes me think of him
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 14, 2014, 11:10:03 PM
Don't worry, Folks. If Madeleine is with these people they aren't going to do anything to hurt her now. They might as well be dead if they do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 14, 2014, 11:10:09 PM
Was the playground photo of the man in the background ever identified I know there was speculation of him being a police man . This story makes me think of him
And remember gerry asking for the lady to contact kate . The lady by the pool
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 11:13:24 PM
Was the playground photo of the man in the background ever identified I know there was speculation of him being a police man . This story makes me think of him
Yes, identified, a brit tourist dad with own child (not a portuguese policeman).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 14, 2014, 11:19:50 PM
Do you remember Gerry making an appeal for the lady who Kate was chatting to to get in touch ? Trying to find it in the press I'd be interested to see what date it was
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 14, 2014, 11:22:46 PM
Do you remember Gerry making an appeal for the lady who Kate was chatting to to get in touch ? Trying to find it in the press I'd be interested to see what date it was
That appeal was made on 22 Aug 2007 and was about a lady at the toddler pool on Sun 3 June 2007
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 15, 2014, 12:04:29 AM
Tropico didn't come in until 9th may and was there a while. I think this vessel must have been a phantom, or there was an error in recording of the vessels going out.
I always thought madeleine was whisked away by boat...and still do ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 15, 2014, 12:11:12 AM
I always thought madeleine was whisked away by boat...and still do ...
This a belief of many others too, lizzibif . Being so close to the ocean and of course the nearby Marinas. The Perfect getaway, if you have access to a boat.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lizzibif on December 15, 2014, 12:27:00 AM
This a belief of many others too, lizzibif . Being so close to the ocean and of course the nearby Marinas. The Perfect getaway, if you have access to a boat.
i know it was reported that a man was dragging a little girl towards the marina..the morning after madeleine went missing..i don't believe that was madeleine..i believe she was moved by boat the same night she went missing ..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 15, 2014, 12:33:08 AM
i know it was reported that a man was dragging a little girl towards the marina..the morning after madeleine went missing..i don't believe that was madeleine..i believe she was moved by boat the same night she went missing ..
So do I. Always have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lizzibif on December 15, 2014, 12:40:31 AM
Walking to where exactly ? You talk of marinas ! The nearest marina to PdL is situated in Lagos harbour, completely the opposite direction of the Smith sighting ! Also PdL does not have mooring facilities for a yacht.
Wise up folks...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 15, 2014, 06:10:28 PM
That appeal was made on 22 Aug 2007 and was about a lady at the toddler pool on Sun 3 June 2007
No mention of it on 3/6 Was encouraged to learn of the large volume of information which has come through the Leicester incident room following the appeal. Hopefully the Portuguese police will have had a good reponse also and we hope to meet with them in the next couple of days for an update. Chris and Les, who travelled over with the huge inflatable banner which has been positioned near the Spanish border, are heading home today. They were very happy that the director of the Algarve tourist board allowed them to put it up in private property owned by them, with thousands of cars passing every hour and seeing Madeleine’s image and details of her disappearance and reward. Sunday papers have reported our interviews virtually verbatim but vey disappointed that the blog was lifted almost in entirety by one newspaper yesterday after expressly forbidding such an approach! The blog is to keep people visiting the website up to date with our progress in the campaign to find Madeleine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 15, 2014, 07:03:06 PM
No mention of it on 3/6 Was encouraged to learn of the large volume of information which has come through the Leicester incident room following the appeal. Hopefully the Portuguese police will have had a good reponse also and we hope to meet with them in the next couple of days for an update. Chris and Les, who travelled over with the huge inflatable banner which has been positioned near the Spanish border, are heading home today. They were very happy that the director of the Algarve tourist board allowed them to put it up in private property owned by them, with thousands of cars passing every hour and seeing Madeleine’s image and details of her disappearance and reward. Sunday papers have reported our interviews virtually verbatim but vey disappointed that the blog was lifted almost in entirety by one newspaper yesterday after expressly forbidding such an approach! The blog is to keep people visiting the website up to date with our progress in the campaign to find Madeleine.
Any help?
Fri 1 June: Madrid trip. DNA results. Sat 2 June: Quiet family day. TV/newspaper interview. DNA results. Sun 3 June: Car rental extended. K talks to lady by pool (according to Aug 22 blog). Mon 4 June: Finalising travel arrangements. Crimewatch interview. Tue 5 June: Meeting with police. Fly to Berlin. Wed 6 June: Argentina phonecall. Fly from Berlin to Amsterdam.
http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?
A curious statement is released that 'Kate is keen to get in touch with a very nice mum, who she spoke with at the toddler pool in the Ocean Club on Sunday 3rd June. She is sure she will remember the conversation and Kate would be grateful if you could get in touch with her at campaign@findmadeleine.com' f=1&t=13241&p=356672&sid=630f0d1ef66cb3ff9718ea4c498dff63
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id8.html )
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Kazcutt on December 15, 2014, 07:30:08 PM
Fri 1 June: Madrid trip. DNA results. Sat 2 June: Quiet family day. TV/newspaper interview. DNA results. Sun 3 June: Car rental extended. K talks to lady by pool (according to Aug 22 blog). Mon 4 June: Finalising travel arrangements. Crimewatch interview. Tue 5 June: Meeting with police. Fly to Berlin. Wed 6 June: Argentina phonecall. Fly from Berlin to Amsterdam.
http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?
A curious statement is released that 'Kate is keen to get in touch with a very nice mum, who she spoke with at the toddler pool in the Ocean Club on Sunday 3rd June. She is sure she will remember the conversation and Kate would be grateful if you could get in touch with her at campaign@findmadeleine.com' f=1&t=13241&p=356672&sid=630f0d1ef66cb3ff9718ea4c498dff63
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id8.html )
According to the 22 .just strange they never mentioned it on the day or day after
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 15, 2014, 07:42:05 PM
I guess it was a busy time, but she probably remembered it because it was a calendar month anniversary of Maddie's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 15, 2014, 08:50:38 PM
Re: Family of Ben Needham to sue Home Office for funding of police operation
It is my understanding that Ben Needham's grandfather made many visits to the Mediterranean since 1991 to carry out his own investigation and to follow up on sightings of children who could have been Ben.
Quite often this was at great personal risk as he followed leads into areas which were 'no go' for the police.
If North Yorkshire police think they have a good enough case and worth following through ... IMO they should be given the funding to help them pursue it.
Even if it proves to be a dead end at least the Needham family will know that as much has been done as is possible.
**clip
The money being sought by South Yorkshire police is understood to be a sum in thousands not millions.
Christine Needham, Ben’s grandmother, said: “The police really want to crack on with this and have heard nothing. We feel ignored and abandoned by the government. It’s very difficult. I am pleased for the family of Madeleine McCann that they are getting support, but what we are saying is please listen to our requests for support.
“Ben was a small child who went missing too. The police have some leads they need to follow up, and they need the funds to go and do it.”
Yes, someone (Payne's brother in law?) did that for Tapas group, as I recall
Sorry Jassi. Did what for the Tapas group?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on December 21, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
Members will be very aware that the policeman who until this week led the Madeleine enquiry also led the botched Jill Dando investigation which saw Barry George prosecuted, jailed and then freed after appeals. What some may not know however is that it is alleged that the BBC's Jill Dando was murdered because she had uncovered a well connected pedophile ring.
Is this a coincidence too far?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 21, 2014, 12:32:21 PM
Members will be very aware thant the policeman who until this week led the Madeleine enquiry also led the botched Jill Dando investigation which saw Barry George prosecuted, jailed and then freed after appeals. What some may not know however is that it is alleged that the BBC's Jill Dando was murdered because she had uncovered a well connected pedophile ring.
Is this a coincidence too far?
As I recall from the Jill Dando case, a residue of firearms discharge found (from memory) in Barry George's pocket was held to have been (possibly) planted, although there was no evidence that it had been planted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 21, 2014, 12:35:57 PM
As I recall from the Jill Dando case, a residue of firearms discharge found (from memory) in Barry George's pocket was held to have been (possibly) planted, although there was no evidence that it had been planted.
I thought it was considered to be cross-contamination due to poor procedure, rather than deliberate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 21, 2014, 12:41:44 PM
I think it is true that you can have quick justice or good justice but very rarely both.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 21, 2014, 02:36:46 PM
Members will be very aware that the policeman who until this week led the Madeleine enquiry also led the botched Jill Dando investigation which saw Barry George prosecuted, jailed and then freed after appeals. What some may not know however is that it is alleged that the BBC's Jill Dando was murdered because she had uncovered a well connected pedophile ring.
Is this a coincidence too far?
Perhaps not.
The paedophile ring clearly leads to several important people alive and dead.
The question is just how far.
and of course with the inquiry, will it be statutory, or just another 'inquiry' to find nothing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 21, 2014, 02:41:33 PM
As I recall from the Jill Dando case, a residue of firearms discharge found (from memory) in Barry George's pocket was held to have been (possibly) planted, although there was no evidence that it had been planted.
I may have a look at that case. Somebody very close to her set her up. The hitman was there earlier than when she arrived home but she had gone shopping which explained the delay and no cars were found to be tracking her &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 06:45:13 PM
Thank you Pegasus. It is very interesting. A very down to earth lady.
An excellent article indeed. Highly informative and gives an insight into the organisation and teamwork which goes on in the incident rooms of SY ... with very clear lines and chains of command and responsibility.
** snipped When cases break, Stewart is very much the brains of the operation; it's a fallacy that detectives spend their days charging around revisiting crime scenes or examining witnesses, as we might assume.
"You couldn't do it all," she says.
In most incident rooms, the workload is spread among about 18 detectives, most of whom have been trained specifically for different roles.
"I'm much more the co-ordinator," she continues. "I allocate things: the family liaison officer; someone to trawl through the CCTV. We'd have a house-to-house co-ordinator. I probably wouldn't meet the witness unless there was some problem - if we could give her any assistance with protection and that kind of thing…
Then you've got one case officer who will take the case to court eventually, an exhibits officer, the telephones officer and a float."
The biggest surprise is how rarely she even interviews the suspects. "We have specialist interviewers, so they would interview," she explains. So those psychologically charged detective/murderer interview showdowns we enjoy so much on screen? Pure fiction.
Stewart describes her most valuable skill as "good leadership. Being here, being open to talk to everyone, knowing the team, who they are, what their strengths are. I think the best managers are good people persons," she says.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 08:09:17 PM
I read that. Whether that will result in the loss of jobs remains to be seen.
Also, of relevance, how many people have lost their jobs there, in the aftermath of 2007 ?
and of course, what is the drop in tourism to that region, which is no fault at all of the residents.
Its not Maddie's fault either, Stephen. Do you think her disappearance should not have been investigated?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 08:24:15 PM
Another interesting point in http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/may-2013-vogue-true-crime
In the section about Detective Stewart: "I probably wouldn't meet the witness". and "how rarely she even interviews the suspects"
So it is fairly standard SY procedure for the investigation leader to not meet with the main witnesses and not meet with people being investigated. Yet some peeps have been criticising Mr Amaral for adhering exactly to that SY practice.
I hope very much that the new investigation leader Detective Wall will follow this good practice exactly like Mr Amaral did, and not personally have meetings with the main witnesses.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 22, 2014, 08:29:14 PM
Another interesting point in http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/may-2013-vogue-true-crime
In the section about Detective Stewart: "I probably wouldn't meet the witness". and "how rarely she even interviews the suspects"
So it is fairly standard SY procedure for the investigation leader to not meet with the main witnesses and not meet with people being investigated. Yet some peeps have been criticising Mr Amaral for adhering exactly to that SY practice.
I hope very much that the new investigation leader Detective Wall will follow this good practice exactly like Mr Amaral did, and not personally have meetings with the main witnesses.
Will she write a book on her hypothesis of The McCann's guilt if she fails to solve the case? Personally, I doubt it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 08:36:48 PM
No. You said "it's no fault at all of the residents" I very much, sympathise with them too, but nobody is at fault, so what is it you were you trying to say, exactly?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:39:06 PM
I was under the impression Gordon Brown had been blamed for the global recession ... now it seems Madeleine McCann has single handedly destroyed tourism and jobs in Portugal in the midst of it.
Well, well.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2014, 08:42:41 PM
I was under the impression Gordon Brown had been blamed for the global recession ... now it seems Madeleine McCann has single handedly destroyed tourism and jobs in Portugal in the midst of it.
Well, well.
Well Madeleine must have affected UK bookings to France as well. These have dropped over the last seven years.
Personally, I thought it was the exchange rate. It's played havoc with my pension.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:43:39 PM
An interesting phrase in http://portugalresident.com/madeleine-new-shock-as-tour-operator-drops-%E2%80%9Cinfamous%E2%80%9D-ocean-club-resort
"One day I would love to break my silence"
Only last month, Ocean Club manager Donna Hill told us: “I really cannot comment. One day I would love to break my silence”.
Wouldn't it be great if he confided in the PJ and SY if he is referring to Madeleine McCann ... if he doesn't we can only assume he has other concerns in which Madeleine's disappearance doesn't figure.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 08:46:45 PM
Will she write a book on her hypothesis of The McCann's guilt if she fails to solve the case? Personally, I doubt it.
She will have no need to as, unlike Mr Amaral, she is not going to be forced of the case by pressure applied by a foreign government.
Will UK journo Drose write an article about Detective Wall while she is working on this case containing fifty pathetically childish insults about her such as "corpulent" and "sweaty"? Nope.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:47:14 PM
Another interesting point in http://www.vogue.co.uk/news/2013/04/04/may-2013-vogue-true-crime
In the section about Detective Stewart: "I probably wouldn't meet the witness". and "how rarely she even interviews the suspects"
So it is fairly standard SY procedure for the investigation leader to not meet with the main witnesses and not meet with people being investigated. Yet some peeps have been criticising Mr Amaral for adhering exactly to that SY practice.
I hope very much that the new investigation leader Detective Wall will follow this good practice exactly like Mr Amaral did, and not personally have meetings with the main witnesses.
Yeah I did notice that ... but I also noted the disciplines allocated to the officers under her command ... one of whom was responsible for recovering CCTV footage.
I wonder if you would care to enumerate any instances you consider good practice in the conduct of the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 22, 2014, 08:55:13 PM
She will have no need to as, unlike Mr Amaral, she is not going to be forced of the case by pressure applied by a foreign government.
Will UK journo Drose write an article about Detective Wall while she is working on this case containing fifty pathetically childish insults about her such as "corpulent" and "sweaty"? Nope.
Too late. She is already being dissed elsewhere.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 08:59:50 PM
She will have no need to as, unlike Mr Amaral, she is not going to be forced of the case by pressure applied by a foreign government.
Will UK journo Drose write an article about Detective Wall while she is working on this case containing fifty pathetically childish insults about her such as "corpulent" and "sweaty"? Nope.
She's 'getting it' quite simply because she is the antithesis of 'corpulent and sweaty'.
Nobody wins in the name calling game, sometimes even if the cap fits really well it is much better just to ignore it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 09:01:40 PM
@)(++(* didn't see that on the remit ... but since she will be entitled to a full pension on retiral, she probably won't need the money
Mr Amaral did not write his book to make money. Mr Amaral wrote the book IMO because he is determined that this case will be solved. His book reaches an inaccurate conclusion, but his ethics are way up there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 09:07:16 PM
Mr Amaral did not write his book to make money. Mr Amaral wrote the book IMO because he is determined that this case will be solved. His book reaches an inaccurate conclusion, but his ethics are way up there.
I wasn't aware that Dr Amaral had pledged profits from his book to charity ... I have read that one of his intentions on retiral was to launch a career as an author and make a living from it. But there you are, you learn something new every day.
You and I are diametrically opposed in opinion as to the nature of the man and his motivation for writing his book.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 09:13:36 PM
She's 'getting it' quite simply because she is the antithesis of 'corpulent and sweaty'.
Nobody wins in the name calling game, sometimes even if the cap fits really well it is much better just to ignore it.
The childish insults article was a part of a destroy campaign launched from the UK against Detective Amaral while he was still working on the case. The peeps orchestrating that attack only got away with it because he was a foreign Detective. They now will be completely powerless if they don't like the way the SY current investigation goes.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 22, 2014, 09:18:29 PM
The childish insults article was a part of a destroy campaign launched from the UK against Detective Amaral while he was still working on the case. The peeps orchestrating that attack only got away with it because he was a foreign Detective. They now will be completely powerless if they don't like the way the SY current investigation goes.
So he punished them back, by launching a book, to destroy a family?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 22, 2014, 09:26:56 PM
I wasn't aware that Dr Amaral had pledged profits from his book to charity ... I have read that one of his intentions on retiral was to launch a career as an author and make a living from it. But there you are, you learn something new every day.
You and I are diametrically opposed in opinion as to the nature of the man and his motivation for writing his book.
Yes I have a very high opinion of this man's integrity. But I am not claiming he made no investigative mistakes. Several of his investigative deductions (for example about the window, and especially about the clothes) are IMO drastically incorrect, and so this led to the conclusion of his book being inaccurate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 22, 2014, 09:38:13 PM
I wasn't aware that Dr Amaral had pledged profits from his book to charity ... I have read that one of his intentions on retiral was to launch a career as an author and make a living from it. But there you are, you learn something new every day.
You and I are diametrically opposed in opinion as to the nature of the man and his motivation for writing his book.
Neither has Kate McCann so waht is your point ? It was his money with to do what he wished.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 22, 2014, 09:40:03 PM
The childish insults article was a part of a destroy campaign launched from the UK against Detective Amaral while he was still working on the case. The peeps orchestrating that attack only got away with it because he was a foreign Detective. They now will be completely powerless if they don't like the way the SY current investigation goes.
There are already people complaining about SY. Maybe because they don't like the way the current investigation is going ... but certainly that it is taking place at all.
... possibly they are the same people who fought tooth and nail to keep them out of investigating Madeleine's disappearance ... the same ones who graffiti'd Luz ... who complain about the expense ... leak press stories about stupid Brits digging and looking in culverts ... etc.
They have their reasons no doubt ... but some that I can think of are sinister indeed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 23, 2014, 12:36:59 AM
There are already people complaining about SY. Maybe because they don't like the way the current investigation is going ... but certainly that it is taking place at all.
... possibly they are the same people who fought tooth and nail to keep them out of investigating Madeleine's disappearance ... the same ones who graffiti'd Luz ... who complain about the expense ... leak press stories about stupid Brits digging and looking in culverts ... etc.
They have their reasons no doubt ... but some that I can think of are sinister indeed.
The point is that the campaign against Amaral fooled much of the UK public because he is a foreigner. The campaign to discredit Grime fooled people because he was in some sense a subcontractor. But the the peeps who orchestrated those campaigns realised they would not stand a chance rubbishing Harrison (much as they would have liked to) who worked for a 100% UK Police organisation, so they wisely left him alone, even though it was him who worked with Mr Amaral and recommended Grime and brought Eddie to Portugal. Similarly now those peeps will be totally powerless to attack should the SY investigation take a turn not to their liking - absolutely powerless.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 23, 2014, 01:01:39 AM
The point is that the campaign against Amaral fooled much of the UK public because he is a foreigner. The campaign to discredit Grime fooled people because he was in some sense a subcontractor. But the the peeps who orchestrated those campaigns realised they would not stand a chance rubbishing Harrison (much as they would have liked to) who worked for a 100% UK Police organisation, so they wisely left him alone, even though it was him who worked with Mr Amaral and recommended Grime and brought Eddie to Portugal. Similarly now those peeps will be totally powerless to attack should the SY investigation take a turn not to their liking - absolutely powerless.
I don't think anyone is actually looking for power. I certainly am not. Scotland Yard will do their job to the best of their ability, which will be good.
And just supposing The McCanns were found to be culpable, I have nothing to feel ashamed of by supporting them in the rule of law. Nor will I feel ashamed of criticising Amaral. He did a terrible, self serving job, and ignored a whole pile of evidence. And certainly never nailed The McCanns.
And anyway, I don't know any of them, so it has always been an exercise in logistics for me.
I work as a gardener around here, and yesterday I was talking to a client. A Brit of above average intelligence who told me that he thinks The McCanns are as guilty as sin, and Gerry isn't Madeleine's father. I was stunned. But No, we didn't fall out about it. And it isn't important anyway. Any more than is my opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 23, 2014, 07:33:00 AM
The point is that the campaign against Amaral fooled much of the UK public because he is a foreigner. The campaign to discredit Grime fooled people because he was in some sense a subcontractor. But the the peeps who orchestrated those campaigns realised they would not stand a chance rubbishing Harrison (much as they would have liked to) who worked for a 100% UK Police organisation, so they wisely left him alone, even though it was him who worked with Mr Amaral and recommended Grime and brought Eddie to Portugal. Similarly now those peeps will be totally powerless to attack should the SY investigation take a turn not to their liking - absolutely powerless.
I for one am happy for the police investigation to follow wherever the evidence takes us. I'm sure you cannot supply any evidence that Harrison supported amaral in his beliefs. The whole point is that the evidence used by the PJ against the McCanns was bogus as has been accepted by the archiving report..
As for Grime...I have no problem with him...the two best dogs in the world found nothing to implicate the McCanns ...the dogs support the theory that Maddie did not die in the apartmnet
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on December 23, 2014, 07:50:01 AM
At last the couple McCann have put their fear of being 'dissed' to one side and posted their annual Christmas message.
Christmas 2014
MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of our supporters.
Once again we have been amazed this year by the support we continue to have for our search for Madeleine - and opening the hundreds of Christmas cards has once again been a truly humbling experience. The warmth, kindness and commitment to never forget has precipitated more than a few happy tears! Thank you.
It's hard to ignore that 'here we are again' feeling at this time of year, still with no idea where our daughter is or of what's happened. What we can say is that our resolve to find out, as well as the hope which has always been present, has not lessened. In addition it's very apparent that the determination of the Metropolitan Police remains steadfast, in spite of the persistent challenges they face.
No matter where she is, Madeleine will, as always, be very much with us and our family this Christmas.
Thank you for holding her in your hearts too.
Kate and Gerry
Pity they had to be shamed into it !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 23, 2014, 08:07:31 AM
At last the couple McCann have put their fear of being 'dissed' to one side and posted their annual Christmas message.
Christmas 2014
MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of our supporters.
Once again we have been amazed this year by the support we continue to have for our search for Madeleine - and opening the hundreds of Christmas cards has once again been a truly humbling experience. The warmth, kindness and commitment to never forget has precipitated more than a few happy tears! Thank you.
It's hard to ignore that 'here we are again' feeling at this time of year, still with no idea where our daughter is or of what's happened. What we can say is that our resolve to find out, as well as the hope which has always been present, has not lessened. In addition it's very apparent that the determination of the Metropolitan Police remains steadfast, in spite of the persistent challenges they face.
No matter where she is, Madeleine will, as always, be very much with us and our family this Christmas.
Thank you for holding her in your hearts too.
Kate and Gerry
Great to see all the support the McCanns are still getting
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 23, 2014, 08:09:44 AM
At last the couple McCann have put their fear of being 'dissed' to one side and posted their annual Christmas message.
Christmas 2014
MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of our supporters.
Once again we have been amazed this year by the support we continue to have for our search for Madeleine - and opening the hundreds of Christmas cards has once again been a truly humbling experience. The warmth, kindness and commitment to never forget has precipitated more than a few happy tears! Thank you.
It's hard to ignore that 'here we are again' feeling at this time of year, still with no idea where our daughter is or of what's happened. What we can say is that our resolve to find out, as well as the hope which has always been present, has not lessened. In addition it's very apparent that the determination of the Metropolitan Police remains steadfast, in spite of the persistent challenges they face.
No matter where she is, Madeleine will, as always, be very much with us and our family this Christmas.
Thank you for holding her in your hearts too.
Kate and Gerry
Pity they had to be shamed into it !
Shamed into it were they? Says who? You?
Maybe they were just late putting it out.
Why do some always have to say something nasty about what ever they do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on December 23, 2014, 03:54:55 PM
Christ, it shows the level or anticipation and obsession in the "sceptic" camp! I had neither noticed, nor cared a jot that I hadn't received a Christmas message from the McCanns. Some people really need to get a life.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 23, 2014, 04:28:57 PM
The McCanns can thank their thousands of supporters but amaral would look a bit silly posting a similar message to his handful.....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 23, 2014, 08:27:21 PM
Interestingly, I see that support for the McCanns has grown massively over the last few years on Facebook - their 2010 Christmas message only received 280 likes compared with over 4500 so far for this latest one. So those who claim that the McCanns' support is dwindling are very mistaken.
One might wonder why they do it, in the face of the obvious.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 23, 2014, 08:56:17 PM
Oh dear Jane Longhurst case now on. Decomposing body smell detected in car boot. Reports of funny smell from his lockup. On cctv cleaning up body fluids and blood coming from big white box on pallet truck. I wonder what was inside? Not rotten meat! Graham Coutts and Paul Kelly the same man. He won't confess to her murder or hiding Jane's body for 5 weeks. Goes to trial and he claims it was accidental death *&*%£ She coughed up blood when he strangled her to death. He got 30 years. The same similarities - reported funny smell in car, body fluids in boot, car boot left constantly open because of rotten meat. Do you think detectives believe that after both CSI dogs alerted to the car?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on December 23, 2014, 09:03:44 PM
Oh dear Jane Longhurst case now on. Decomposing body smell detected in car boot. Reports of funny smell from his lockup. On cctv cleaning up body fluids and blood coming from big white box on pallet truck. I wonder what was inside? Not rotten meat! Graham Coutts and Paul Kelly the same man. He won't confess to her murder or hiding Jane's body for 5 weeks. Goes to trial and he claims it was accidental death *&*%£ She coughed up blood when he strangled her to death. He got 30 years. The same similarities - reported funny smell in car, body fluids in boot, car boot left constantly open because of rotten meat. Do you think detectives believe that after both CSI dogs alerted to the car?
Did they? How did they do that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 23, 2014, 09:11:27 PM
CSI dogs don't alert to rotten meat. He hid her body in his lockup for 5 weeks (using a different name) then moved her hidden in a big box on a palllet truck. Put her in the boot of his car, took her to a remote place and set the body alight. The fire was reported and she was discovered.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 23, 2014, 09:40:13 PM
Eddie was trained using pig foetuses; forgetting all his training and not waiting for a command he lunged into the apartment and ran round it, sniffing like mad, maybe reliving the wee puppy he once was when he was being trained using eau de cochon.
I once encountered a student who worked with his father who was a pig farmer.
There was evidence of a very strong smell associated with his work which IMO would be picked up by a dog for a long period from wherever that young man moved to in the room.
By the way, I found that opening windows dissipated the odour.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 23, 2014, 10:06:03 PM
Eddie was trained using pig foetuses; forgetting all his training and not waiting for a command he lunged into the apartment and ran round it, sniffing like mad, maybe reliving the wee puppy he once was when he was being trained using eau de cochon.
I once encountered a student who worked with his father who was a pig farmer.
There was evidence of a very strong smell associated with his work which IMO would be picked up by a dog for a long period from wherever that young man moved to in the room.
By the way, I found that opening windows dissipated the odour.
The FBI used these dogs. Harrison recommended these dogs.
Eddie is an enhanced victim recovery dog and is specially trained to detect the scent of human remains. He is able to smell through solid materials, like concrete, because of scientific training techniques.
It's this training that sets him apart from standard police sniffer dogs, which are able to detect human remains in shallow graves. The springer's nose is more sensitive and he is called in on more complicated cases.
The specialist training techniques - which are highly confidential - were developed by Eddie's handler Martin Grime, along with the UK's National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) and America's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).
"A standard sniffer dog is like a basic tool. An enhanced dog goes through much more training and is a lot more discriminating about smells, basically its nose is super sensitive. It's also about getting the dog to really focus on a task. Other dogs have to do other police duties but mine work full-time in this area, making them very sharp and highly skilled."
Charlotte Pinkney was abducted by an ex-boyfriend and has never been seen since. An initial search by the EVRD revealed a 'classic' secondary deposition site near to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances. The investigative team distrusted the dogs opinion until a full forensic search revealed a small button off of the girls clothing in long grass. This evidence was put to the suspect who fully admitted the offence.
Distrust Eddie's alert? Were they mad. Seems so.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 23, 2014, 10:33:19 PM
The FBI used these dogs. Harrison recommended these dogs.
Eddie is an enhanced victim recovery dog and is specially trained to detect the scent of human remains. He is able to smell through solid materials, like concrete, because of scientific training techniques.
It's this training that sets him apart from standard police sniffer dogs, which are able to detect human remains in shallow graves. The springer's nose is more sensitive and he is called in on more complicated cases.
The specialist training techniques - which are highly confidential - were developed by Eddie's handler Martin Grime, along with the UK's National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) and America's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).
"A standard sniffer dog is like a basic tool. An enhanced dog goes through much more training and is a lot more discriminating about smells, basically its nose is super sensitive. It's also about getting the dog to really focus on a task. Other dogs have to do other police duties but mine work full-time in this area, making them very sharp and highly skilled."
Charlotte Pinkney was abducted by an ex-boyfriend and has never been seen since. An initial search by the EVRD revealed a 'classic' secondary deposition site near to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances. The investigative team distrusted the dogs opinion until a full forensic search revealed a small button off of the girls clothing in long grass. This evidence was put to the suspect who fully admitted the offence.
Distrust Eddie's alert? Were they mad. Seems so.
Concrete isn't solid.
Eddie was a Victim Recovery Dog who was trained using pig foetuses.
Dogs indicate areas of interest.
Forensic examination provides evidence which backs up or rejects that indication.
In PDL Eddie ... who was trained using dead pig ... provided no indications which led to evidence being harvested.
... and you seem to have overlooked what I was saying in my post; just one of the dangers of being too enigmatic and not wishing to libel a person who in reality may be squeaky clean ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on December 23, 2014, 10:51:37 PM
Oh dear Jane Longhurst case now on. Decomposing body smell detected in car boot. Reports of funny smell from his lockup. On cctv cleaning up body fluids and blood coming from big white box on pallet truck. I wonder what was inside? Not rotten meat! Graham Coutts and Paul Kelly the same man. He won't confess to her murder or hiding Jane's body for 5 weeks. Goes to trial and he claims it was accidental death *&*%£ She coughed up blood when he strangled her to death. He got 30 years. The same similarities - reported funny smell in car, body fluids in boot, car boot left constantly open because of rotten meat. Do you think detectives believe that after both CSI dogs alerted to the car?
I think we have watched different programme. No dogs, no mention of funny smell in car, fluid in the boot, or the boot being left open because of rotting meat.
I think we have watched different programme. No dogs, no mention of funny smell in car, fluid in the boot, or the boot being left open because of rotting meat.
The FBI used these dogs. Harrison recommended these dogs.
Eddie is an enhanced victim recovery dog and is specially trained to detect the scent of human remains. He is able to smell through solid materials, like concrete, because of scientific training techniques.
It's this training that sets him apart from standard police sniffer dogs, which are able to detect human remains in shallow graves. The springer's nose is more sensitive and he is called in on more complicated cases.
The specialist training techniques - which are highly confidential - were developed by Eddie's handler Martin Grime, along with the UK's National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) and America's Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).
"A standard sniffer dog is like a basic tool. An enhanced dog goes through much more training and is a lot more discriminating about smells, basically its nose is super sensitive. It's also about getting the dog to really focus on a task. Other dogs have to do other police duties but mine work full-time in this area, making them very sharp and highly skilled."
Charlotte Pinkney was abducted by an ex-boyfriend and has never been seen since. An initial search by the EVRD revealed a 'classic' secondary deposition site near to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances. The investigative team distrusted the dogs opinion until a full forensic search revealed a small button off of the girls clothing in long grass. This evidence was put to the suspect who fully admitted the offence.
Distrust Eddie's alert? Were they mad. Seems so.
Mark Harrison distrusted Eddie's alerts.
That is clear enough if you read his reports carefully.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on December 23, 2014, 11:07:44 PM
I think we have watched different programme. No dogs, no mention of funny smell in car, fluid in the boot, or the boot being left open because of rotting meat.
A Town & Country Murder Tuesday 8pm CI Channel 555 Sky tv
Jane Longhurst
A shocking look at the chilling case surrounding the murder of teacher Jane Longhurst, whose body was found in a West Sussex beauty spot in 2003. (1 of 8)
http://tv.sky.com/tv-guide#/day/0
It said decomposing body smell in boot. Reported funny smell from lockup. I watched it. It showed cctv footage of pallet truck.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 23, 2014, 11:19:15 PM
A Town & Country Murder Tuesday 8pm CI Channel 555 Sky tv
Jane Longhurst
A shocking look at the chilling case surrounding the murder of teacher Jane Longhurst, whose body was found in a West Sussex beauty spot in 2003. (1 of 8)
http://tv.sky.com/tv-guide#/day/0
It said decomposing body smell in boot. Reported funny smell from lockup. I watched it. It showed cctv footage of pallet truck.
This was in 2004. so hardly latest news.
Now. how difficult would it have been to put this link on your original post?
I have yet to watch it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 24, 2014, 01:42:49 AM
Oh dear Jane Longhurst case now on. Decomposing body smell detected in car boot. Reports of funny smell from his lockup. On cctv cleaning up body fluids and blood coming from big white box on pallet truck. I wonder what was inside? Not rotten meat! Graham Coutts and Paul Kelly the same man. He won't confess to her murder or hiding Jane's body for 5 weeks. Goes to trial and he claims it was accidental death *&*%£ She coughed up blood when he strangled her to death. He got 30 years. The same similarities - reported funny smell in car, body fluids in boot, car boot left constantly open because of rotten meat. Do you think detectives believe that after both CSI dogs alerted to the car?
I have just finished watching this video, about that horrendous crime in 2003, but can find no reference to the car boot, apart from the murderer, putting the box containing the body, in it. Could you please direct me to that part, PF? I may possibly have missed it........Then we can clear up the car boot mystery. Thank you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 24, 2014, 08:05:27 AM
Forensic examination provides evidence which backs up or rejects that indication.
No, it can only back up evidence, it cannot reject it. The cautious words used to describe the alerts are legal not scientific.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on December 24, 2014, 09:39:31 AM
From my last post at http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com)
Personally, based on reading the files published in 2008 by the Polícia Judiciária of Portugal, some official communications of Scotland Yard in 2013 and 2014, and my three trips to Praia da Luz, the crime scene, in 2012 and 2013; I still think that the main hypothesis is IMO:
(a) It was a failed burglary attempt in apartment 5A, which escalated into the abduction of Madeleine. (b) Only one, or no more than two people, know what happened, for being involved in the crime. (c) At least one person who has participated in the crime was by then employed at the Ocean Club resort (OC). (d) The offender, or offenders, did not have a car or any vehicle the night of the abduction. (e) The offender, or offenders, were residing in Praia da Luz, or very near there, in 2007.
BTW, I will be visiting London on Dec. 28, 29 & 30. Anybody nearby to have a coffee? Heri.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 24, 2014, 10:25:57 AM
I have just finished watching this video, about that horrendous crime in 2003, but can find no reference to the car boot, apart from the murderer, putting the box containing the body, in it. Could you please direct me to that part, PF? I may possibly have missed it........Then we can clear up the car boot mystery. Thank you
27:20 - "On examining the car, we discovered the boot area smelt of decomposing body."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on December 24, 2014, 10:33:08 AM
In October 2013, I had made a list of Portuguese people who I would like to be interviewed, being the GROUP A the most important IMO:
GROUP A JCFdS, Vol III, Pages 679-680, THEFT, OC and/or MW, Driver BdAPdS, Vol II Pages 372-373 and Vol XV Pages 4114-4115, OC and/or MW, Driver MFMM, Vol III Pages 555-557, OC and/or MW, Driver Laundry MdGGAG, Vol II Pages 344-345, OC and/or MW, Administrative Ricardo R (added to the list on Feb, 2014)
GROUP B SMCRB, Vol II Pages 355-356, Vol V Pages 1289-1290 and Vol VIII Pages 1975-1977, OC and/or MW, Manager JCSB, Vol III Pages 540-542, OC and/or MW, Maintenance JDNdON, Vol II Pages 341-343, OC and/or MW, Administrative VMdS, Vol II Pages 331-333, FRAUD, OC and/or MW, Manager
GROUP C MDM, Vol III Pages 532-534, OC and/or MW, Maintenance LFMF, Vol II Pages 370-371, DRUGS, OC and/or MW, Maintenance MJSdS, Vol II Pages 392-394, OC and/or MW, Cleaner
GROUP D NFGdC, Vol II Pages 264-265, OC and/or MW and TANNER SIGHTING, Maintenance CMGdCP, Vol II Pages 412-414, OC and/or MW, Maintenance TPLdS, Vol II Pages 401-403, OC and/or MW, Maintenance
GROUP E JPSCdJH, Vol II Pages 469-470a, TANNER SIGHTING, Local MHH, Vol II Pages 469-470a, TANNER SIGHTING, Local MMMdS, Vol II Pages 469-470a, TANNER SIGHTING, Local AEGFP, Vol II Pages 471-473, OC and/or MW and TANNER SIGHTING TRB, Vol III Pages 602-604, OC and/or MW and TANNER SIGHTING NGMVdRB, Vol II Pages 239-241, OC and/or MW and TANNER SIGHTING
The other important thing IMO is the hairs & fingerprints recovered in May 4, 2007 (as Carana has pointed out many many times here).
From my blog: http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/11/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction.html (http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2014/11/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction.html)
"But the other 13 haplotypes remain unidentified, and not correspond to persons who were legally in the 5A and whose mitochondrial DNA profiles were determined."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on December 24, 2014, 01:07:10 PM
Thank you PF. Sorted! I apologize for misunderstanding, arising from your post.
My apologies too PF. But there was no mention of the boot being left constantly open because of rotting meat or body fluids was there? . Or did I miss that too? So no similarities really.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 24, 2014, 02:19:12 PM
My apologies too PF. But there was no mention of the boot being left constantly open because of rotting meat or body fluids was there? . Or did I miss that too? So no similarities really.
Thanks to you both. No dogs were mentioned. Just decomposing body smell detected in car boot and bad smell reported from his lockup. Reported bad smells in hire car, reported boot left open and both dogs alerted to car and Keela alerted to blood in boot 15 alleles match. So there are similarities. He stored the body for 5 weeks before moving it so it's not impossible to hide and move a body many weeks later in the boot of a car. This is a case where it was done.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 24, 2014, 03:55:28 PM
Thanks to you both. No dogs were mentioned. Just decomposing body smell detected in car boot and bad smell reported from his lockup. Reported bad smells in hire car, reported boot left open and both dogs alerted to car and Keela alerted to blood in boot 15 alleles match. So there are similarities. He stored the body for 5 weeks before moving it so it's not impossible to hide and move a body many weeks later in the boot of a car. This is a case where it was done.
Weren't you wittering vacuously earlier about something or another that you claimed was "libellous"?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 24, 2014, 04:59:25 PM
The dogs solved this case.
And I am the Queen of Sheba ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 24, 2014, 05:10:48 PM
The spurious and often inaccurately reported forensic findings, the irrelevant behaviour of the cadaver dogs, Mr and Mrs McCann’s perceived demeanour, as well as many other totally irrelevant points just fuel this uninformed and I must say offensive conjecture. The simple answer is, there is no information, let alone evidence to indicate their involvement in any way. Should they have supervised their children more closely that night? That is not for me to say, but regardless of the answer, it does not assist the investigation in any way.
The spurious and often inaccurately reported forensic findings, the irrelevant behaviour of the cadaver dogs, Mr and Mrs McCann’s perceived demeanour, as well as many other totally irrelevant points just fuel this uninformed and I must say offensive conjecture. The simple answer is, there is no information, let alone evidence to indicate their involvement in any way. Should they have supervised their children more closely that night? That is not for me to say, but regardless of the answer, it does not assist the investigation in any way.
Ian Horrocks.
and Ian Horrocks was involved in the Barry George case.
Try again Queen of Sheba. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on December 24, 2014, 05:31:58 PM
The spurious and often inaccurately reported forensic findings, the irrelevant behaviour of the cadaver dogs, Mr and Mrs McCann’s perceived demeanour, as well as many other totally irrelevant points just fuel this uninformed and I must say offensive conjecture. The simple answer is, there is no information, let alone evidence to indicate their involvement in any way. Should they have supervised their children more closely that night? That is not for me to say, but regardless of the answer, it does not assist the investigation in any way.
Sorry, no life sentences in Portugal. The most anyone can get is 25 years, even if they murder 10 people.
in the uk...life is 15 years
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 24, 2014, 09:32:16 PM
Was it rumoured in the latest news that the current investigation leader worked on the Addington case? Is that right? Now wasn't the huge mistake in that case that the investigation assumed a far too early time for exiting the premises?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 24, 2014, 11:59:39 PM
Was it rumoured in the latest news that the current investigation leader worked on the Addington case? Is that right? Now wasn't the huge mistake in that case that the investigation assumed a far too early time for exiting the premises?
That would appear to be the stuation ... that they may have been considered to have left the premises too early could possibly have been due to an over reliance on the nose of a dog.
** snip** She oversaw the investigation into the murder of Tia Sharp, whose body was found in the loft of her grandmother's house in New Addington, south London, days after she went missing in August 2012.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on December 25, 2014, 12:15:44 AM
Despite four searches by police officers using sniffer dogs, it was not until a specialist dog was taken in, that Tia's remains were found.
Met Commander Neil Basu, who was responsible for finding Tia, insisted the murder victim’s body was ‘well concealed’. He said a review found ‘human error’ in how the searches were conducted and managed was to blame for the extraordinary mistake.
He added that the PC who first searched the loft was ‘inexperienced’ and he was given ‘words of advice’, the lowest form of disciplinary sanction.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 26, 2014, 01:46:57 AM
In that south London case the failure to solve the case for a whole 5 days was due entirely to a drastically incorrect assumption by investigators about time of leaving residence. Now look at first page of final report in the Portugal case and find a similar assumption.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on December 26, 2014, 03:41:23 PM
In that south London case the failure to solve the case for a whole 5 days was due entirely to a drastically incorrect assumption by investigators about time of leaving residence. Now look at first page of final report in the Portugal case and find a similar assumption.
I rather thought it was the inability of the police to conduct a thorough search of the property on more than one occasion in the Sharpe case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 28, 2014, 12:57:39 AM
I rather thought it was the inability of the police to conduct a thorough search of the property on more than one occasion in the Sharpe case.
From the moment the police arrived they subconsciously assumed that the object of their search was not in the premises. Therefore they did not search as thoroughly as they should inside - they missed places. And those are not the only two cases where this happened - here are two more - the Turner case - and the Castillo case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 28, 2014, 01:41:29 AM
From the moment the police arrived they subconsciously assumed that the object of their search was not in the premises. Therefore they did not search as thoroughly as they should inside - they missed places. And those are not the only two cases where this happened - here are two more - the Turner case - and the Castillo case.
I am not familiar with the 2 other cases to which you refer - would you be good enough to provide Christian names, please? The subconscious assumption that TS was not on the premises - would that not have altered the moment the officers became aware of the background of the last known person to see her? I find it very distressing that the police in situ were just so damned incompetent.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on December 29, 2014, 01:48:57 AM
I am not familiar with the 2 other cases to which you refer - would you be good enough to provide Christian names, please? The subconscious assumption that TS was not on the premises - would that not have altered the moment the officers became aware of the background of the last known person to see her? I find it very distressing that the police in situ were just so damned incompetent.
Zyia Turner in Detroit MI, and Ari Aguilar-Castillo in Durham NC. Both involved incomplete search of a cupboard. Two very different outcomes. (Relevance is: a news report suggested the new investigation boss worked on the south London "inadequate search of premises" case).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 03, 2015, 09:32:08 PM
Madeleine McCann holiday firm pulls out of Portuguese resort where she vanished
Absolutely delighted that money is being made available to look for Ben Needham ... I hope his family are able to find out what happened to him.
As far as I know Ben Needham and Madeleine McCann are the only two British children who have disappeared while abroad and who remain unaccounted for ... it is right and proper they should be looked for.
So what happens now to the objectors who complain about paying for the search for Madeleine ... will Ben now become an expense we can't afford too? Or will even they see the hypocrisy of that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 06, 2015, 07:40:26 PM
Absolutely delighted that money is being made available to look for Ben Needham ... I hope his family are able to find out what happened to him.
As far as I know Ben Needham and Madeleine McCann are the only two British children who have disappeared while abroad and who remain unaccounted for ... it is right and proper they should be looked for.
So what happens now to the objectors who complain about paying for the search for Madeleine ... will Ben now become an expense we can't afford too? Or will even they see the hypocrisy of that?
People never complained about the funding for Operation Grange, they just (some of them anyway) believed its scope had already been determined.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 06, 2015, 07:42:57 PM
People never complained about the funding for Operation Grange, they just (some of them anyway) believed its scope had already been determined.
Let me get this right ... if the money being spent looking for a solution to Madeleine McCann's disappearance was instead being directed towards investigating her parents ... there would be no complaining.
Is that what you are saying?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 06, 2015, 10:47:03 PM
Let me get this right ... if the money being spent looking for a solution to Madeleine McCann's disappearance was instead being directed towards investigating her parents ... there would be no complaining.
Is that what you are saying?
I wouldn't go that far. There's always someone complaining about something.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 08, 2015, 12:20:44 AM
I see Ben Needham is worth about 10 times less than Maddie.
Ah well, at least we are all equal in God's eyes.
Indeed! and also they have saved the public a fortune by not having a 'fund' to help searching, they did that by themselves and following leads AND using proper aged progression pictures. unlike Little baby maddie pics which people are asked to 'look' for and are used in every MSM 'story'. I wonder why they still do that...Hmmmm sell ,sell, sell.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 08, 2015, 01:30:02 PM
Indeed! and also they have saved the public a fortune by not having a 'fund' to help searching, they did that by themselves and following leads AND using proper aged progression pictures. unlike Little baby maddie pics which people are asked to 'look' for and are used in every MSM 'story'. I wonder why they still do that...Hmmmm sell ,sell, sell.
I hate it when someone tries to use another child as a weapon against the McCann's.
There wasn't so much media involved when Ben went missing, indeed if there was who knows whether there would have been a fund or not.
As for the picture of Madeleine aged three, it could jog someone's memory, or maybe it is used as that is the picture that most people remember seeing when she disappeared. There are people who don't follow the McCann case you know, so showing that picture they would remember who it was.
Ben's picture of him as a baby is also shown in case you didn't notice.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 18, 2015, 01:32:12 PM
I suppose there is a Madeleine void at the moment so poor old msm journalists have to come up with something albeit old and stale.
No doubt this could change very quickly for a number of reasons.
I'm getting the feeling there is a lot of activity going on in the background both here and in Portugal, particularly as far as the new team leaders are concerned.
I think all three will be up to speed now and anxious to move things on, and I think they will have compartmentalised the information gleaned from the fresh interviews conducted.
Just a case of waiting to see where they go from here.
8)><( Sorry ... wrong thread
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on January 18, 2015, 01:59:09 PM
I'm getting the feeling there is a lot of activity going on in the background both here and in Portugal, particularly as far as the new team leaders are concerned.
I think all three will be up to speed now and anxious to move things on, and I think they will have compartmentalised the information gleaned from the fresh interviews conducted.
Just a case of waiting to see where they go from here.
8)><( Sorry ... wrong thread
I have moved both posts.
I agree Brietta, there will be a lot going on in both London and Lisbon. The new team at SY will be keen to take things forward but let's face it, they can't do much worse. Redwood's efforts appear to have achieved very little a far as finding Madeleine is concerned. One could argue that what he has been doing is preparing the ground work but my own experience is that changing the horses in the middle of a field is the wrong thing to do.
The Court in Lisbon will be very near to a decision by now and that should be forthcoming in March or April, always assuming that the documents requested by the court have been provided by all parties to the trial.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2015, 02:09:02 PM
I agree Brietta, there will be a lot going on in both London and Lisbon. The new team at SY will be keen to take things forward but let's face it, they can't do much worse. Redwood's efforts appear to have achieved very little a far as finding Madeleine is concerned. One could argue that what he has been doing is preparing the ground work but my own experience is that changing the horses in the middle of a field is the wrong thing to do.
The Court in Lisbon will be very near to a decision by now and that should be forthcoming in March or April, always assuming that the documents requested by the court have been provided by all parties to the trial.
When your nag is on his lasts legs, there's no option.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on January 18, 2015, 02:28:54 PM
When your nag is on his lasts legs, there's no option.
Could there be some significance in the fact that the new team leader is from the homicide and major crime command? Seems an odd choice for a case which is supposed to have been an abduction?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 18, 2015, 02:33:36 PM
Could there be some significance in the fact that the new team leader is from the homicide and major crime command? Seems an odd choice for a case which is supposed to have been an abduction?
What division was Andy Redwood from then?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 18, 2015, 02:34:27 PM
I thought that was where Redwood was from as well. As death is clearly an option, it would seem logical, even though they appeared to be concentrating on abduction initially.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 18, 2015, 02:36:19 PM
Could there be some significance in the fact that the new team leader is from the homicide and major crime command? Seems an odd choice for a case which is supposed to have been an abduction?
abduction is major crime...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 18, 2015, 02:38:57 PM
I don't think the Met has an Abductions division, it is actually specified as coming under the description "Serious Crime", which of course it is!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 18, 2015, 02:49:39 PM
To be honest, I was expecting them to 'rule in' and 'rule out' ALL scenarios, and theories,minus the gloating,from supporters and then the- minor non- related - interruption regrading the 'twittergate affair' re sending names for persons to be dealt with! This was, I suspect, to keep good favour with the investigating team.
I also suspect that there is a belief Maddie is no longer alive. There is no hard concrete evidence either way, so it is a stalemate! unless.... someone wants to go back to the beginning with a fresh look and no outside pressure.
It is worth noting that it was reported in the msn about a couple who were charged with child neglect, the 12 year old child removed from the family home for over a year (all due to a genuine misundestanding). I would like to give a link, But I don't have as this was relayed to me via phone call.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 19, 2015, 12:07:33 AM
Stephen D Birch plans to engadge directly with Prime Minister David Cameron via diplomatic channels for the release of Madeleine McCanns body ! http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg212703#msg212703
Given David Cameron's personal circumstances just a bit insensitive I would have thought; however can Mr Birch give any indication how the Prime Minister might achieve this?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 19, 2015, 12:39:59 AM
Stephen D Birch plans to engadge directly with Prime Minister David Cameron via diplomatic channels for the release of Madeleine McCanns body ! http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg212703#msg212703
Given David Cameron's personal circumstances just a bit insensitive I would have thought; however can Mr Birch give any indication how the Prime Minister might achieve this?
He's just after a bit of publicity? Or a writ 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 19, 2015, 12:45:46 AM
Yes, I saw that and wondered how the technique would handle samples of mixed DNA such as were found in PDL - samples that were too complex to interpret.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 23, 2015, 06:14:21 PM
You don`t refute my observations about the gist and purpose of your "discussion" then ?
Point out instances all you will..........what the "discussion" all boils down to is what I posted earlier.
That`s what it`s all about isn`t it?
As is the ultimate purpose of all the doggie-woggie threads.
Maybe it`s time to "confront" Mr Grime about your (collective) concerns about his work.
I see you have no explanation as to why there were no alerts in places where it is impossible for any reasonable person to believe that not a drop of blood or any other material capable of being detected by the dogs - had ever been deposited - over years and years - involving hundreds of people.
I have already 'confronted' M. Grime - in the form of a question elsewhere on this forum. I am still awaiting his reply.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 24, 2015, 11:58:46 AM
I see you have no explanation as to why there were no alerts in places where it is impossible for any reasonable person to believe that not a drop of blood or any other material capable of being detected by the dogs - had ever been deposited - over years and years - involving hundreds of people.
I have already 'confronted' M. Grime - in the form of a question elsewhere on this forum. I am still awaiting his reply.
Yes, Anna, way back, produced a fascinating link of all the people (besides Mr Gordon and his shaving cut) who had bled in apartment 5a.
Extraordinary that (apparently) no one else bled in any of the other apartments.
Perhaps not so extraordinary that "inspections" in all the other apartments were whistle-stop; while the inspection of apartment 5a was long-drawn-out and painstaking ....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 12:05:20 PM
I'm not the one who goes on about the dogs Sadie, unlike peeps like you.
8)--)) *&*%£
Do you like being a peep.
It is treatable you know.
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Nothing wrong with the dogs Stephen
Just some strange weird things that need sorting, like
1) The incorrect interpretataion of the alerts forensics [by Amaral] 2) Martin Grime stating that CCat had caused the alert in the cupboard when quite clearly thta was wrong. Almost certainly the alert was to the papers / folders on top of the counter. Whose papers/ folders were they? Who put them there and when ? 3) Eddie alerting to a "cadavar " scent that was claimed came through an impervious door seal on a car. Elo Elo Elo! It was claimed that the key fob was the source of the odour. 4) The key fob had Gerrys blood on it but some claim it was cadavarine. Now I met Gerry and I can assure you he is very much alive.
And the list goes on.
There is a whole list of them that others have identified.
It would be good for someone, who is au fait with the other dog alert anomolies, to add them to my list and for us to take screenshots before they possibly vanish.
The dogs, per se, did a good job, but the weird bits need looking at as does the interpretation of forensics and of what the alerts were pointing to.
As you know both Keela and Eddie alert to blood. Keela does not alert to Cadavar odour, but Eddie does.
Stephen
Please DO NOT deceive.
I have NEVER knocked the dogs. THEY did a good job, within their capabilities, which included pig cadavar odour as well as human cadavar odour, blood and other bodily matter
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 12:11:10 PM
Just some strange weird things that need sorting, like
1) The incorrect interpretataion of the alerts forensics [by Amaral] 2) Martin Grime stating that CCat had caused the alert in the cupboard when quite clearly thta was wrong. Almost certainly the alert was to the papers / folders on top of the counter. Whose papers/ folders were they? Who put them there and when ? 3) Eddie alerting to a "cadavar " scent that was claimed came through an impervious door seal on a car. Elo Elo Elo! It was claimed that the key fob was the source of the odour. 4) The key fob had Gerrys blood on it but some claim it was cadavarine. Now I met Gerry and I can assure you he is very much alive.
And the list goes on.
There is a whole list of them that others have identified.
It would be good for someone, who is au fait with the other dog alert anomolies, to add them to my list and for us to take screenshots before they possibly vanish.
The dogs, per se, did a good job, but the weird bits need looking at as does the interpretation of forensics and of what the alerts were pointing to.
As you know both Keela and Eddie alert to blood. Keela does not alert to Cadavar odour, but Eddie does.
Stephen
Please DO NOT deceive.
I have NEVER knocked the dogs. THEY did a good job, within their capabilities, which included pig cadavar odour as well as human cadavar odour, blood and other bodily matter
What happened to the cooked pork sadie ?
You must try harder. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 24, 2015, 12:14:04 PM
I see you have no explanation as to why there were no alerts in places where it is impossible for any reasonable person to believe that not a drop of blood or any other material capable of being detected by the dogs - had ever been deposited - over years and years - involving hundreds of people.
I have already 'confronted' M. Grime - in the form of a question elsewhere on this forum. I am still awaiting his reply.
Any such explanation would need to include the reasons why non-stop alerts from start to finish during any investigation everywhere do not occur......despite pork, lavatories, nosebleeds..... and all other residues found in the everyday work of the woofie on duty.
As I said, do we insinuate it`s all down to handler bias, cuing to alert or not to alert , all of which malpractices are glaringly obvious to those such as yourself ........( The handler doesn`t fool you! It apparently only needs good eyesight and common sense to have him bang to rights.)........
.........or do we accept that you aren`t the expert and request that you stop smearing those who are ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 12:29:03 PM
Any such explanation would need to include the reasons why non-stop alerts from start to finish during any investigation everywhere do not occur......despite pork, lavatories, nosebleeds..... and all other residues found in the everyday work of the woofie on duty.
As I said, do we insinuate it`s all down to handler bias, cuing to alert or not to alert , all of which malpractices are glaringly obvious to those such as yourself ........( The handler doesn`t fool you! It apparently only needs good eyesight and common sense to have him bang to rights.)........
.........or do we accept that you aren`t the expert and request that you stop smearing those who are ?
It's pure desperation on their part.
I heard that even on stop the my###, they hasve dropped the thread claiming the mccanns won in the trial.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 24, 2015, 01:22:36 PM
Any such explanation would need to include the reasons why non-stop alerts from start to finish during any investigation everywhere do not occur......despite pork, lavatories, nosebleeds..... and all other residues found in the everyday work of the woofie on duty.
As I said, do we insinuate it`s all down to handler bias, cuing to alert or not to alert , all of which malpractices are glaringly obvious to those such as yourself ........( The handler doesn`t fool you! It apparently only needs good eyesight and common sense to have him bang to rights.)........
.........or do we accept that you aren`t the expert and request that you stop smearing those who are ?
LOL - I am not smearing anyone. It is M. Grime's assertions about his dog's abilities not mine that I am using to make a point. I fully accept that what he tells us about his dogs skills are true. You are shooting the messenger.
Either you believe Martin Grime's claims about his dogs skills or you don't. I believe him - therefore it must be for some other reason why the dogs did not alert in any of the 9 other cars or any of the other apartments. - where common sense alone dictates that alerts would have been made - if they had been given long enough.
IMO it was pointless to even include other cars and other apartments in this test unless the dogs were given the same chance to find a scent in those places as they were given in 5A and the Renault. That didn't happen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lordpookles on January 24, 2015, 01:27:41 PM
Do we know if Grimes knew whose car was whose?
It probably doesn't need saying but obviously Keela only goes in when Eddie alerts. You definitely make an interesting point Benice given the blood alerts only at the McCanns properly plus car. I assume both dogs alert to any kind of blood from a living or dead person even though the dogs can tell the difference? An important point to note imo is we don't know if Eddie was alerting to possible cadaver scent or blood do we at the hire car?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 01:30:39 PM
LOL - I am not smearing anyone. It is M. Grime's assertions about his dog's abilities not mine that I am using to make a point. I fully accept that what he tells us about his dogs skills are true. You are shooting the messenger.
Either you believe Martin Grime's claims about his dogs skills or you don't. I believe him - therefore it must be for some other reason why the dogs did not alert in any of the 9 other cars or any of the other apartments. - where common sense alone dictates that alerts would have been made - if they had been given long enough.
IMO it was pointless to even include other cars and other apartments in this test unless the dogs were given the same chance to find a scent in those places as they were given in 5A and the Renault. That didn't happen.
The dogs are regularly tested so it is proven they can perform their job correctly or they wouldn't be working. It's not because Martin Grime says so! The dogs records speak for themselves. Eddie can detect that odour he knows so well. This was the enhanced training of the dog to recognise and alert to cadaver odour. These dogs were trained daily by MG.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 24, 2015, 01:41:59 PM
Indeed we have probably done this one a lot more than twice ... so maybe you can show us the Renault model that has porous door seals and maybe even an air vent or something in the front doors just so that the car doesn't turn into a bomb when the air con unit is operating? Does it work along the same principle as a pressurised plane ... or do they have porous door fittings too?
Really quite interested in how blood scent leaches through a padded metal door and an airtight seal and you seem to be the person to ask.
Oh dear! maybe you should have paid a little more attention when/if you studied physics. Are you suggesting that Renault Scenic is designed to be pressurised like an aircraft? Do you understand why an aircraft has a pressurised cabin and why a Renault Scenic does not?
Edited. Sorry I missed the question highlighted. Simples cos in this instance the seal ain't bleedin' air tight.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lordpookles on January 24, 2015, 01:43:34 PM
The airtight car is simply a non starter imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 24, 2015, 01:47:35 PM
It probably doesn't need saying but obviously Keela only goes in when Eddie alerts. You definitely make an interesting point Benice given the blood alerts. I assume both dogs alert to any kind of blood from a living or dead person even though they dogs can tell the difference?
I believe M. Grime claimed not to have known the Renault was the McCanns, although the 'Madeline' posters stuck on the car windows was a pretty obvious giveaway imo. It would very unlikely IMO that he did not know that 5A was the McCanns apartment.
AFAIK both dogs alert to blood from dead or living persons. They do not alert to fresh/wet blood. They simply alert to the particular scent they have been trained to detect - and don't know that it is blood they are alerting to - or who it belongs to - or even how long it has been there - which according to Grime- could be decades.
Once Keela had been put in the Renault then she should have been put in the other cars also IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 24, 2015, 01:51:07 PM
LOL - I am not smearing anyone. It is M. Grime's assertions about his dog's abilities not mine that I am using to make a point. I fully accept that what he tells us about his dogs skills are true. You are shooting the messenger.
Either you believe Martin Grime's claims about his dogs skills or you don't. I believe him - therefore it must be for some other reason why the dogs did not alert in any of the 9 other cars or any of the other apartments. - where common sense alone dictates that alerts would have been made - if they had been given long enough.
IMO it was pointless to even include other cars and other apartments in this test unless the dogs were given the same chance to find a scent in those places as they were given in 5A and the Renault. That didn't happen.
So we circle back to the oft repeated insinuations about the handling of the dog.........
in effect that given enough time and / or cuing, the dog will alert eventually anywhere the handler consciously or unconsciously wants him to.
......whilst at the same time, he`s apparently cleverly "negative cuing" to prevent any alerts to residues of pork products, lavatories, bathrooms, bins and ovens............ or historical splodges of this that or the other ........
.............which I posted in the first place.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 01:54:41 PM
I believe M. Grime claimed not to have known the Renault was the McCanns, although the 'Madeline' posters stuck on the car windows was a pretty obvious giveaway imo. It would very unlikely IMO that he did not know that 5A was the McCanns apartment.
AFAIK both dogs alert to blood from dead or living persons. They do not alert to fresh/wet blood. They simply alert to the particular scent they have been trained to detect - and don't know that it is blood they are alerting to - or who it belongs to - or even how long it has been there - which according to Grime- could be decades.
Once Keela had been put in the Renault then she should have been put in the other cars also IMO.
Eddie's behaviour substantially changed when passing their car. It had nothing to do with Martin Grime. The dog detected the scent when passing that car so Martin Grime had to bring him back to examine it further. Only when Eddie alerts Keela is used.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 24, 2015, 02:12:24 PM
Perhaps the GNR that drove the scenic from the cafe put his lunch in the boot.
Where was the scenic kept between being taken from the cafe, till it turned up at the garage?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 24, 2015, 02:13:13 PM
Eddie's behaviour substantially changed when passing their car. It had nothing to do with Martin Grime. The dog detected the scent when passing that car so Martin Grime had to bring him back to examine it further. Only when Eddie alerts Keela is used.
The scent of Gerry's blood on the ignition key won't have exercised the dog to that degree, I'm sure ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 24, 2015, 02:21:29 PM
Eddie's behaviour substantially changed when passing their car. It had nothing to do with Martin Grime. The dog detected the scent when passing that car so Martin Grime had to bring him back to examine it further. Only when Eddie alerts Keela is used.
pathfinder oh pathfinder ... either you are watching an entirely different video from the rest of us ... or you are capable of seeing only what you want to see.
Any idea why Eddie should be so attracted the wall ... Pink Floyd aficionado perhaps? ... or maybe even the next car in line which he kept running around?
IMO he was excited about something some distance and in a different direction from the Renault ... but we'll never really know will we? ... because he was consistently called back to the Renault.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 03:56:39 PM
pathfinder oh pathfinder ... either you are watching an entirely different video from the rest of us ... or you are capable of seeing only what you want to see.
Any idea why Eddie should be so attracted the wall ... Pink Floyd aficionado perhaps? ... or maybe even the next car in line which he kept running around?
IMO he was excited about something some distance and in a different direction from the Renault ... but we'll never really know will we? ... because he was consistently called back to the Renault.
Have you seen all of Eddie's alert in this case. What's the one thing they have in common? And it's not a wall 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 04:02:14 PM
Read back just a little to one of Sadie's posts where she has addressed this IMO very adequately ... if there are people around who choose to suggest we are discussing airtight cars ... that is certainly a problem ... but only so far as they are concerned.
Think about it carefully ... door seal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 04:07:21 PM
The passenger compartment of your car is not designed to be airtight. Fresh air comes in the front of the car, circulates through the passenger compartment and leaves the car through exhausters in the rear. If the cabin of a car or truck were truly airtight, the windows wouldn't defrost, it would get unbearably hot in there and anyone inside wouldn't be able to breathe.
Have you seen all of Eddie's alert in this case. What's the one thing they have in common? And it's not a wall 8)--))
Unless Eddie's trained response was to pick up something in his mouth and toss it around ... I saw nothing but an ill disciplined, panting animal working long hours into the darkness ... and very clearly past his best
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 24, 2015, 04:10:48 PM
Read back just a little to one of Sadie's posts where she has addressed this IMO very adequately ... if there are people around who choose to suggest we are discussing airtight cars ... that is certainly a problem ... but only so far as they are concerned.
Think about it carefully ... door seal.
Exactly. Aren't air vents usually on the dashboard, ours are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 04:13:58 PM
The passenger compartment of your car is not designed to be airtight. Fresh air comes in the front of the car, circulates through the passenger compartment and leaves the car through exhausters in the rear. If the cabin of a car or truck were truly airtight, the windows wouldn't defrost, it would get unbearably hot in there and anyone inside wouldn't be able to breathe.
The wilful obtuseness being displayed by posters is becoming tiresome ... the DOOR ... is the thing ... the SEAL AROUND the DOOR ... is the thing.
I suppose allowances should be made for posters who are unable to explain why Eddie was able to perform through a door and door seal ... so we need the deflection however irritating.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 24, 2015, 04:19:04 PM
The wilful obtuseness being displayed by posters is becoming tiresome ... the DOOR ... is the thing ... the SEAL AROUND the DOOR ... is the thing.
I suppose allowances should be made for posters who are unable to explain why Eddie was able to perform through a door and door seal ... so we need the deflection however irritating.
Scent can escape because it's not air tight. Eddie was right yet again. And with 15 alleles match in boot this will be further investigated.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 24, 2015, 04:29:28 PM
The wilful obtuseness being displayed by posters is becoming tiresome ... the DOOR ... is the thing ... the SEAL AROUND the DOOR ... is the thing.
I suppose allowances should be made for posters who are unable to explain why Eddie was able to perform through a door and door seal ... so we need the deflection however irritating.
Eddie and Keela and all the unnecessary haraz that has been introduced:
Car door seals are not airtight. Watertight maybe but not airtight.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 24, 2015, 04:39:29 PM
Scent can escape because it's not air tight. Eddie was right yet again. And with 15 alleles match in boot this will be further investigated.
I agree pathfinder73.
The doors would not be air tight not after a few years anyway, like anything the door seal isnt always air tight over time, BUT if you take a dead body into a car and the scent is in the inside, the person who carried the body into the car and exited would leave cadavar trace on the outside too surely?
As to the wall, the dogs are not fallible, he was sniffing the air, he may have smelt anything and was checking to see if he should alert to it or not, thats what they do. Also who is to say the person who drove the car into the garage, and came out of the car did not transfer cadavar scent around the wall, they could have stood there or touched the wall lol.....cadavar scent can be transferred as we keep being told constantly......for and against.
Also as the car was a hire car i doubt if the doors were in the best condition lol...
The doors would not be air tight not after a few years anyway, like anything the door seal isnt always air tight over time, BUT if you take a dead body into a car and the scent is in the inside, the person who carried the body into the car and exited would leave cadavar trace on the outside too surely?
As to the wall, the dogs are not fallible, he was sniffing the air, he may have smelt anything and was checking to see if he should alert to it or not, thats what they do. Also who is to say the person who drove the car into the garage, and came out of the car did not transfer cadavar scent around the wall, they could have stood there or touched the wall lol.....cadavar scent can be transferred as we keep being told constantly......for and against.
Also as the car was a hire car i doubt if the doors were in the best condition lol...
A witness said the boot was constantly open in July.
A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.
&%+((£ Dear oh dear What a shambles! 15 out of 19 components are present then it's out of 37.
I trusted Ricardo back then but I struggled to understand how, never mind why, somebody could have killed Madeleine and removed her body within such a short time frame. It didn’t make sense. And, like the business of the ‘blood’, this ‘evidence of death’ seemed tenuous in the extreme. The police appeared to be telling us, on the say-so of a dog, that someone had definitely died in apartment 5A and, since nobody else they knew of had passed away there, it must have been Madeleine. Supposing she had been killed – and we think this extremely unlikely – she must have been taken out of the apartment within minutes. (Madedleine)
I think it's extremely unlikely as well!
"I was you know going to Kate's about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content." (DP)
Apparently Madeleine was shattered and had to go to bed early &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 05:46:55 PM
Perhaps the GNR that drove the scenic from the cafe put his lunch in the boot.
Where was the scenic kept between being taken from the cafe, till it turned up at the garage?
Did the GNR officer wear gloves when handling the car keys and other McCann personal effects? Was he wearing protective clothing?? In the course of his duties had he recently come into contact with a dead body? A road traffic victim? A death at home? Had he attended a murder scene or a disinterment? Can we say with any certainty he and his colleagues were completely uncontaminated with cadaver odour? If we can say this then how do we know this for a fact? Why would any of these scenarios be considered far-fetched but the idea of MAdeleine's body being hidden in a coffin and cremated be considered quite feasible...?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 24, 2015, 05:56:15 PM
Not even always that. I had to drive through a flood once - nasty wet experience
I can't resist a George Mparrbe moment here: What you has to understand in the context of the McCann case is that the seal for this specific car has been cunningly designed to let the water in but not let the smell out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 05:59:05 PM
I can't resist a George Mparrbe moment here: What you has to understand in the context of the McCann case is that the seal for this specific car has been cunningly designed to let the water in but not let the smell out.
Now that is magic.
How about it ?
Vehicles have perfect seals do they ?
Cooked meat releases the same compounds as a corpse ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 24, 2015, 06:21:08 PM
I can't resist a George Mparrbe moment here: What you has to understand in the context of the McCann case is that the seal for this specific car has been cunningly designed to let the water in but not let the smell out.
Clever things, seals
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 06:22:25 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 24, 2015, 06:36:34 PM
Goading, insulting and disruptive, posts will be deleted. Please try to adhere to the rules...Thank You.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 24, 2015, 07:46:16 PM
Car Door Seal Rubber (weatherstripping) - (per metre) by Seal Rubber
Product Description Car Door Seal Rubber This is door seal rubber that install between the car door and the car body (in the metal edge for the car body) . all details about the install place, dimensions, and flexibility is clarified in the pictures . We Sell This door seal rubber in 1 Metre increments (1 Quantity = 1 Metre ) (1 metre = 3.3 foot ) . put the quantity you want in the quantity box . Your door seal will be cut in one Continuous Piece to the exact length you order . You can select the appropriate door rubber seal for your vehicle by the dimensions . you can compare this seal rubber dimensions and your old door seal dimensions . The dimensions : The dimensions available in millimeters and inch . The dimensions in millimeters : Height : 23 M.M . Width : 24 M.M . Edge thickness : 6 M.M . Grip range : 1.5 : 4.0 M.M . The dimensions in inch : Height :29/32" . Width : 15/16" . Edge thickness :15/64" . Materials : EPDM / METAL . Order code : A019 . The install place : - in the metal edge for the car body between the car door and car body . - in the external edge for the car door and more . This door rubber seal also designed to be : - Fiat cars door rubber seal . - Seal rubber for bus door . - cap for metal sheet . - rubber stripe for the metal boxes . - rubber seal for electric boards . - Door weather stripe for Car . - Door seal for trucks . - caravan door weather seal . - Weatherstripping for Trailer . - Door seal rubber for campers . - heavy equipments door rubber seal . - rubber stripe for motor lid . - and more . Benefits : - prevent leaks , gaps and vibration . - prevent leakage of air conditioner to out . - prevent entry of dust , air and rain water . - cover the sharp metal edges in the cars and the home . - save the external car door edge from the clash on the walls or other cars . http://www.amazon.co.uk/Car-Door-Seal-Rubber-weatherstripping/dp/B007V689TK#productDetails
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 07:47:50 PM
Car Door Seal Rubber (weatherstripping) - (per metre) by Seal Rubber
Product Description Car Door Seal Rubber This is door seal rubber that install between the car door and the car body (in the metal edge for the car body) . all details about the install place, dimensions, and flexibility is clarified in the pictures . We Sell This door seal rubber in 1 Metre increments (1 Quantity = 1 Metre ) (1 metre = 3.3 foot ) . put the quantity you want in the quantity box . Your door seal will be cut in one Continuous Piece to the exact length you order . You can select the appropriate door rubber seal for your vehicle by the dimensions . you can compare this seal rubber dimensions and your old door seal dimensions . The dimensions : The dimensions available in millimeters and inch . The dimensions in millimeters : Height : 23 M.M . Width : 24 M.M . Edge thickness : 6 M.M . Grip range : 1.5 : 4.0 M.M . The dimensions in inch : Height :29/32" . Width : 15/16" . Edge thickness :15/64" . Materials : EPDM / METAL . Order code : A019 . The install place : - in the metal edge for the car body between the car door and car body . - in the external edge for the car door and more . This door rubber seal also designed to be : - Fiat cars door rubber seal . - Seal rubber for bus door . - cap for metal sheet . - rubber stripe for the metal boxes . - rubber seal for electric boards . - Door weather stripe for Car . - Door seal for trucks . - caravan door weather seal . - Weatherstripping for Trailer . - Door seal rubber for campers . - heavy equipments door rubber seal . - rubber stripe for motor lid . - and more . Benefits : - prevent leaks , gaps and vibration . - prevent leakage of air conditioner to out . - prevent entry of dust , air and rain water . - cover the sharp metal edges in the cars and the home . - save the external car door edge from the clash on the walls or other cars . http://www.amazon.co.uk/Car-Door-Seal-Rubber-weatherstripping/dp/B007V689TK#productDetails
Can you still breathe ?
@)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 24, 2015, 08:02:51 PM
Back on the dogs, here is a classic quote from the botched £20m Jersey Children's Home investigation (Grime received £93,000 for 5 months of his service) Once Eddie started sniffing, any notion of a strategy disappeared. Karl Harrison, one of the scientists Harper brought in from a UK company, LGC Forensics, summed up the inquiry's approach in a comment to the financial investigators.
He said: 'We followed the dog. Where the dog barked was dug up.' This, says the interim report, was 'a fundamental error'.
Harper had not worked as a detective since 1991. In his website article he claims he was experienced at investigating child rape, 'execution-style' slayings and terrorism. In fact, he served as an SIO only in less complex cases, such as domestic murders
Back on the dogs, here is a classic quote from the botched £20m Jersey Children's Home investigation (Grime received £93,000 for 5 months of his service) Once Eddie started sniffing, any notion of a strategy disappeared. Karl Harrison, one of the scientists Harper brought in from a UK company, LGC Forensics, summed up the inquiry's approach in a comment to the financial investigators.
He said: 'We followed the dog. Where the dog barked was dug up.' This, says the interim report, was 'a fundamental error'.
Harper had not worked as a detective since 1991. In his website article he claims he was experienced at investigating child rape, 'execution-style' slayings and terrorism. In fact, he served as an SIO only in less complex cases, such as domestic murders
Car Door Seal Rubber (weatherstripping) - (per metre) by Seal Rubber
Product Description Car Door Seal Rubber This is door seal rubber that install between the car door and the car body (in the metal edge for the car body) . all details about the install place, dimensions, and flexibility is clarified in the pictures . We Sell This door seal rubber in 1 Metre increments (1 Quantity = 1 Metre ) (1 metre = 3.3 foot ) . put the quantity you want in the quantity box . Your door seal will be cut in one Continuous Piece to the exact length you order . You can select the appropriate door rubber seal for your vehicle by the dimensions . you can compare this seal rubber dimensions and your old door seal dimensions . The dimensions : The dimensions available in millimeters and inch . The dimensions in millimeters : Height : 23 M.M . Width : 24 M.M . Edge thickness : 6 M.M . Grip range : 1.5 : 4.0 M.M . The dimensions in inch : Height :29/32" . Width : 15/16" . Edge thickness :15/64" . Materials : EPDM / METAL . Order code : A019 . The install place : - in the metal edge for the car body between the car door and car body . - in the external edge for the car door and more . This door rubber seal also designed to be : - Fiat cars door rubber seal . - Seal rubber for bus door . - cap for metal sheet . - rubber stripe for the metal boxes . - rubber seal for electric boards . - Door weather stripe for Car . - Door seal for trucks . - caravan door weather seal . - Weatherstripping for Trailer . - Door seal rubber for campers . - heavy equipments door rubber seal . - rubber stripe for motor lid . - and more . Benefits : - prevent leaks , gaps and vibration . - prevent leakage of air conditioner to out . - prevent entry of dust , air and rain water . - cover the sharp metal edges in the cars and the home . - save the external car door edge from the clash on the walls or other cars . http://www.amazon.co.uk/Car-Door-Seal-Rubber-weatherstripping/dp/B007V689TK#productDetails
Go on then tell us how it keeps air out/in? That explanation should be very interesting; I wait with bated breath to see you rewrite the laws of physics.
Remember if you will the old London Transport Routemaster; it used to say "Bovril" on the back 8(>((
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 24, 2015, 08:29:23 PM
During the course of my work I have to pass a sewage plant.
Now when doing so , the windows are all closed, and whether the air conditioning is on or off, the 'odours' are very pronounced. 8((()*/
Indoles r'us.
....and don't forget the fact that substances can be adsorbed onto various surfaces and bond to them on a temporary or more permanent basis.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 24, 2015, 08:54:41 PM
Car Door Seal Rubber (weatherstripping) - (per metre) by Seal Rubber
Product Description Car Door Seal Rubber This is door seal rubber that install between the car door and the car body (in the metal edge for the car body) . all details about the install place, dimensions, and flexibility is clarified in the pictures . We Sell This door seal rubber in 1 Metre increments (1 Quantity = 1 Metre ) (1 metre = 3.3 foot ) . put the quantity you want in the quantity box . Your door seal will be cut in one Continuous Piece to the exact length you order . You can select the appropriate door rubber seal for your vehicle by the dimensions . you can compare this seal rubber dimensions and your old door seal dimensions . The dimensions : The dimensions available in millimeters and inch . The dimensions in millimeters : Height : 23 M.M . Width : 24 M.M . Edge thickness : 6 M.M . Grip range : 1.5 : 4.0 M.M . The dimensions in inch : Height :29/32" . Width : 15/16" . Edge thickness :15/64" . Materials : EPDM / METAL . Order code : A019 . The install place : - in the metal edge for the car body between the car door and car body . - in the external edge for the car door and more . This door rubber seal also designed to be : - Fiat cars door rubber seal . - Seal rubber for bus door . - cap for metal sheet . - rubber stripe for the metal boxes . - rubber seal for electric boards . - Door weather stripe for Car . - Door seal for trucks . - caravan door weather seal . - Weatherstripping for Trailer . - Door seal rubber for campers . - heavy equipments door rubber seal . - rubber stripe for motor lid . - and more . Benefits : - prevent leaks , gaps and vibration . - prevent leakage of air conditioner to out . - prevent entry of dust , air and rain water . - cover the sharp metal edges in the cars and the home . - save the external car door edge from the clash on the walls or other cars . http://www.amazon.co.uk/Car-Door-Seal-Rubber-weatherstripping/dp/B007V689TK#productDetails
Any help https://www.isma-isaac.be/publications/PMA_MOD.../1249_1262.pdf
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 24, 2015, 09:38:22 PM
Any help https://www.isma-isaac.be/publications/PMA_MOD.../1249_1262.pdf
Yeah a nice detail of a typical car door seal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Matthew Wyse on January 24, 2015, 09:39:27 PM
Scotland Yard are sure to turn up in Praia da Luz for Easter if past performances are anything to go by. If your going to wreck a community financially do it in times of expected tourism peaks. Make a note in your diaries.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 24, 2015, 10:45:00 PM
Scotland Yard are sure to turn up in Praia da Luz for Easter if past performances are anything to go by. If your going to wreck a community financially do it in times of expected tourism peaks. Make a note in your diaries.
If the Portuguese police had done a proper job..SY wouldn't be there
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 11:04:28 PM
Scotland Yard are sure to turn up in Praia da Luz for Easter if past performances are anything to go by. If your going to wreck a community financially do it in times of expected tourism peaks. Make a note in your diaries.
There was a report recently when the OC was taken over by Thomas Cook that made it clear that PdL has not been wrecked financially, and if anything is doing quite nicely thank you, despite the Met's concerted efforts to destroy it. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 24, 2015, 11:15:14 PM
The doors would not be air tight not after a few years anyway, like anything the door seal isnt always air tight over time, BUT if you take a dead body into a car and the scent is in the inside, the person who carried the body into the car and exited would leave cadavar trace on the outside too surely?
As to the wall, the dogs are not fallible, he was sniffing the air, he may have smelt anything and was checking to see if he should alert to it or not, thats what they do. Also who is to say the person who drove the car into the garage, and came out of the car did not transfer cadavar scent around the wall, they could have stood there or touched the wall lol.....cadavar scent can be transferred as we keep being told constantly......for and against.
Also as the car was a hire car i doubt if the doors were in the best condition lol...
It has already been explained that this car was nearly new. Just over 3,000 miles.
It is a nonsense to claim that the doors were opened and closed and the Cadaver odour would stick to the outside of the car.
The doors were airtight alright
You know, if I were backing Amaral, I would jump at the chance of a pork sandwich scent on fingers causing the scent, cos the other option ain't very palatable, for Amaral and Co.
Like the pile of papers/ folders on top of that cupboard that Eddie alerted to in the second apartment, ain't very palatable either. Unless the person who owned the papers had been eating a pork sarnie.... %£&)**#
Are you guys sure that you dont want it to be a pork sarnie that is causing all the embarrassing trouble for Amaral?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 11:33:02 PM
If Eddie can detect whatever he's trained to alert to through 6 inches of concrete I don't see a car door presenting that much of a problem tbh. What does strike me as odd is that Morse was unable to detect cadaver odour on a child's carseat in which a dead child had been placed simply because it had been wrapped in a paper bag. Apparently the bag was waxed, which is like some sort of krytponite for cadaver dogs - would-be murderers take note. Wrap your victim in a waxed paperbag before burying your victim and it will never be found.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 24, 2015, 11:41:42 PM
If Eddie can detect whatever he's trained to alert to through 6 inches of concrete I don't see a car door presenting that much of a problem tbh. What does strike me as odd is that Morse was unable to detect cadaver odour on a child's carseat in which a dead child had been placed simply because it had been wrapped in a paper bag. Apparently the bag was waxed, which is like some sort of krytponite for cadaver dogs - would-be murderers take note. Wrap your victim in a waxed paperbag before burying your victim and it will never be found.
Concrete is different from Steel and plastic, Alfie.
If it rains, then concrete, being granular and porous, allows the rain to seep throught it.
Cars, being metal which is impervious, do not allow the rain to seep thru.
If rain can penetrate, as in concrete, then gases can escape.
If the rain cannot penetrate, as in metal and plastic (and waxed paper), then no gases can escape erither .
Hence the reason that the dogs can alert thru 6" of concrete. It is porous.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 24, 2015, 11:50:41 PM
I must admit I don't remember water ever coming through the door when I sit in the car during an auto carwash, I'm sure this is a highly relevant point. 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 24, 2015, 11:59:50 PM
It has already been explained that this car was nearly new. Just over 3,000 miles.
It is a nonsense to claim that the doors were opened and closed and the Cadaver odour would stick to the outside of the car.
The doors were airtight alright
You know, if I were backing Amaral, I would jump at the chance of a pork sandwich scent on fingers causing the scent, cos the other option ain't very palatable, for Amaral and Co.
Like the pile of papers/ folders on top of that cupboard that Eddie alerted to in the second apartment, ain't very palatable either. Unless the person who owned the papers had been eating a pork sarnie.... %£&)**#
Are you guys sure that you dont want it to be a pork sarnie that is causing all the embarrassing trouble for Amaral?
Absolutely sadie
BTW about your genealogy research. You do know that Astro's real name isn't really Astro don't you ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 12:03:29 AM
I must admit I don't remember water ever coming through the door when I sit in the car during an auto carwash, I'm sure this is a highly relevant point. 8)--))
Eddie alerted to an impervious door seal What I am questioning is
"Where did the scent come from?"
Same with the cCat incident. The scent didn't come from cCat cos Eddie played with it earlier and also passed it several times.
As Eddie did alert, the question there is
" How did the cadaver scent get to the papers / folders on top of the cupboard? " and " Where did thay come from? Who had placed them there?"
As I said just, if I were an Amaral supporter, I would be grasping at the possibility of a pork sandwich entering the equation.
The other obvious conclusion isn't very good for Amaral, is it?
But maybe there is something that we have all missed? Thinking caps on folks !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 12:24:57 AM
When passing a vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family, the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert indication at the lower part of the drivers door where the dog was biting and barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door. (MG)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 12:43:24 AM
BTW about your genealogy research. You do know that Astro's real name isn't really Astro don't you ?
Is it Castro? @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 25, 2015, 12:45:20 AM
I don't think this thread is any longer "Discussion about the latest news" more like a "bit of all sorts" How can I remedy it, without erasing so much?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 01:01:29 AM
EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.
The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.
However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".
Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.
She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".
The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.
However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.
The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.
At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.
Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.
"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."
Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."
Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.
"The documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.
"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."
The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.
She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.
Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.
In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.
Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 01:17:26 AM
EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.
The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.
However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".
Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.
She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".
The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.
However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.
The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.
At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.
Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.
"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."
Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."
Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.
"The documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.
"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."
The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.
She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.
Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.
In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.
Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough
wow!!! 8@??)(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 01:31:39 AM
Smithman efits have also been whooshed from their website. I wonder if he's come forward and handed himself in 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 25, 2015, 02:00:00 AM
EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.
The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.
However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".
Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.
She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".
The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.
However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.
The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.
At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.
Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.
"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."
Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."
Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.
"The documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.
"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."
The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.
She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.
Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.
In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.
Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough
Dr. Amaral - ever the optimist. I'm awaiting his withheld revelations about the case with bated breath.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 02:01:53 AM
EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.
The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.
However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".
Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.
She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".
The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.
However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.
The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.
At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.
Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.
"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."
Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."
Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.
"The documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.
"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."
The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.
She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.
Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.
In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.
Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough
Wow there's a novelty for you.
The Express coming into the real world.
However, I feel sure davel in his dream world will still state the mccanns won the trial. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 07:50:34 AM
EXCLUSIVE: `McCanns will lose £1m libel trial' Judge's initial findings go against couple
The former Portuguese detective locked in a libel battle with Kate and Gerry McCann is confident of winning the case after a judge accepted some of his arguments.
Goncalo Amaral claimed in his book, The Truth Of The Lie, that evidence suggested Madeleine, then three, died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in the Algarve's Praia da Luz in 2007.
The book became a best seller and Amaral also worked on a television documentary detailing its claims.
However, Kate and Gerry McCann sued the detective for libel, claiming the book was a "slander".
Last week in Lisbon Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro set out in some detail what she had found to be proven and not proven, although she has not given her final verdict.
She did not find that because of statements in the book, documentary and a newspaper interview Kate and Gerry had been "completely destroyed" from a "moral, ethical and family point of view beyond the pain that their daughter's absence causes them". And she said it was not proven that they would suffer "permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite and an indefinable fear".
The judge said this psychological state existed before the publication of the book but added that it was normal for the couple to be affected by the book and they would also have "felt badly" over allegations by Mr Amaral that they hid their daughter's body.
However, it was not possible to determine what most people think after reading Mr Amaral's theories, she said, and she found it was not proven that the attention of the media and of people in general diminished when Amaral's book was published.
The judge thought it was proven that some facts in the documentary and book came from police files used by the investigation team, although others did not.
At the libel trial in Lisbon last July Kate, from Rothley, Leicestershire, spent 55 minutes detailing the distress the book and follow-up documentary had caused them, revealing that details of claims had even reached their nine-year-old children, Sean and Amelie.
Kate said: "Sean asked me in October last year, `Mr Amaral said you hid Madeleine, didn't he?' I just said, `He did, and he has said a lot of silly things'.
"I believe that after the book things got worse and were compounded because we were in a more desperate situation and felt defeated."
Closing her evidence, Kate said: "I do believe in freedom of speech, but I don't believe freedom of speech means the freedom to slander."
Heart doctor Gerry McCann told the hearing: "The book is an affront to me, my wife, my family and the people who believe in us.
"The documentary is even worse. It starts off that Madeleine is dead, that there is no abduction and essentially claims myself, my wife and our friends are liars and would be so cold and ruthless as to hide our daughter's body rather than try to help her should something have happened.
"When the file was closed it was made clear there was no evidence that Madeleine was dead and no evidence Kate and I were responsible for hiding her body."
The McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, could not be contacted by the Sunday Express for her assessment of the judge's findings to date.
She is hoping to win £1million in damages from Mr Amaral and has always been confident of victory.
Mr Amaral, now retired and living in Lisbon after the break-up of his marriage, went on Portuguese television on Friday morning.
In a long interview he was asked why he wrote the book, and said: "The investigation was at stake, an investigation that was never defended here in Portugal, namely by someone at the top of the Policia Judiciaria and it's me who defends those initial months of the investigation."
Mr Amaral said the indications given so far led him to believe that the verdict, which is expected this spring, may be "favourable" to him.
Scotland Yard officers continue to investigate Madeleine's disappearance but have so far failed to make a breakthrough
While I'm not sure that I would believe anything the Express prints, its nice to see a wider presentation of the situation than is normally seen in the UK media.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 08:52:39 AM
While I'm not sure that I would believe anything the Express prints, its nice to see a wider presentation of the situation than is normally seen in the UK media.
Well as some of the 'mainstream' papers have stated, including the sun, that they will not report anything negative against the sun, or report the mccanns losing the case, don't hold out for much in the papers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 09:03:40 AM
Well as some of the 'mainstream' papers have stated, including the sun, that they will not report anything negative against the sun, or report the mccanns losing the case, don't hold out for much in the papers.
True, but newspapers have a habit of picking up and reporting what other papers print, so one can live in hopes of a wider dissemination of the details of the case and of the background to it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 09:17:39 AM
I see a lot of people gloating about the trial.
For you who are jumping in glee, this is a man who mouthed off, got dumped then scurried off to make money out of a missing child. Not as he says to show the truth, because all of it was just his thesis. Some of it from the files but he slyly brought the Calpol and the swinging into his book, ok he didn't say it was true but where is that in the 'files'. He painted the McCann's as 'Swingers who didn't give a damn about their children, parents who drugged their kids up so that they would sleep whilst they went out for dinner, parents who when finding Madeleine's body, hid her and claimed there had been an abduction.
The judge said there it was obvious this book had had an affect on the McCann's they just couldn't prove it. Now you tell me, all you who are excited about the trial. If this had been YOU if someone had written this book about YOU what would you have done? Anyone who says they would have done nothing is a LIAR. You are all HYPOCRITES. Just look at this forum, as soon as someone says something to someone else that they take the wrong way, all hell breaks loose, imagine if that person wrote a book about you. The McCann's couldn't prove it had harmed the search, but of course it would have, when you have people phoning about sightings and the Police telling them 'sorry, we believe Madeleine is dead'.
So, you have Amaral talking about 'neglect' oh yes, I hear you say, the McCann's are guilty of neglect. Amaral drove his car DRUNK with his children in it. What is that if not NEGLECT they could have all been killed.
Amaral may have his dirty money returned to him, but what a way to earn it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 09:22:48 AM
For you who are jumping in glee, this is a man who mouthed off, got dumped then scurried off to make money out of a missing child. Not as he says to show the truth, because all of it was just his thesis. Some of it from the files but he slyly brought the Calpol and the swinging into his book, ok he didn't say it was true but where is that in the 'files'. He painted the McCann's as 'Swingers who didn't give a damn about their children, parents who drugged their kids up so that they would sleep whilst they went out for dinner, parents who when finding Madeleine's body, hid her and claimed there had been an abduction.
The judge said there it was obvious this book had had an affect on the McCann's they just couldn't prove it. Now you tell me, all you who are excited about the trial. If this had been YOU if someone had written this book about YOU what would you have done? Anyone who says they would have done nothing is a LIAR. You are all HYPOCRITES. Just look at this forum, as soon as someone says something to someone else that they take the wrong way, all hell breaks loose, imagine if that person wrote a book about you. The McCann's couldn't prove it had harmed the search, but of course it would have, when you have people phoning about sightings and the Police telling them 'sorry, we believe Madeleine is dead'.
So, you have Amaral talking about 'neglect' oh yes, I hear you say, the McCann's are guilty of neglect. Amaral drove his car DRUNK with his children in it. What is that if not NEGLECT they could have all been killed.
Amaral may have his dirty money returned to him, but what a way to earn it.
Lace.
Whose fault is this whole case ?
Not Amaral, not the Portuguese, not an unproven abductor.
This case starts and finishes with the .................
MCCANNS
So get real.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 09:23:16 AM
For you who are jumping in glee, this is a man who mouthed off, got dumped then scurried off to make money out of a missing child. Not as he says to show the truth, because all of it was just his thesis. Some of it from the files but he slyly brought the Calpol and the swinging into his book, ok he didn't say it was true but where is that in the 'files'. He painted the McCann's as 'Swingers who didn't give a damn about their children, parents who drugged their kids up so that they would sleep whilst they went out for dinner, parents who when finding Madeleine's body, hid her and claimed there had been an abduction.
The judge said there it was obvious this book had had an affect on the McCann's they just couldn't prove it. Now you tell me, all you who are excited about the trial. If this had been YOU if someone had written this book about YOU what would you have done? Anyone who says they would have done nothing is a LIAR. You are all HYPOCRITES. Just look at this forum, as soon as someone says something to someone else that they take the wrong way, all hell breaks loose, imagine if that person wrote a book about you. The McCann's couldn't prove it had harmed the search, but of course it would have, when you have people phoning about sightings and the Police telling them 'sorry, we believe Madeleine is dead'.
So, you have Amaral talking about 'neglect' oh yes, I hear you say, the McCann's are guilty of neglect. Amaral drove his car DRUNK with his children in it. What is that if not NEGLECT they could have all been killed.
Amaral may have his dirty money returned to him, but what a way to earn it.
Yes, I saw Davel's early posts as well.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 09:27:16 AM
While I'm not sure that I would believe anything the Express prints, its nice to see a wider presentation of the situation than is normally seen in the UK media.
Good point...the express is well known for printing sensationalist headlines that have little basis in fact
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 10:09:43 AM
It sell papers and will people read the article though.
absolutely spot on...and what the Express have been doing for seven years...they are the worst culprits...but they are in business to make money and as long as they stay onside they will continue...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 25, 2015, 10:15:28 AM
It's about time you found out the difference between manufacturer's claims and real science, along with certain other posters on here.
I feel sorry for you if your car lets in water and draughts. Especially if you are from Scotland. Where the wind blows hard and cold ion the winter And the freezing rain driving in ....
BRRRR..........
Maybe you should try and buy yourself a modern car Stephen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 25, 2015, 10:21:55 AM
I feel sorry for you if your car lets in water and draughts. Especially if you are from Scotland. Where the wind blows hard and cold ion the winter And the freezing rain driving in ....
BRRRR..........
Maybe you should try and buy yourself a modern car Stephen.
Oh dear sadie, and you claim to be an engineer.
You clearly lack a grasp of basic physics.
I'm not living in Scotland.
So much for your powers of deduction and investigative skills. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 10:25:43 AM
What I have never understood is the rampant devotion shown to these two, by some of their supporters.
Unless of course, the supporters include family and friends. &%+((£
LOL at the irony.
This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman. To go to those extremes really is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.
The crown is yours Stephen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 10:32:22 AM
This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman. To go to those extremes really is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.
The crown is yours Stephen.
One has to wonder why he is always at it , deriding / destroying ONE specific family?
There has to be a reason.
What is YOUR agenda Stephen?
Who is pulling YOUR strings?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
For you who are jumping in glee, this is a man who mouthed off, got dumped then scurried off to make money out of a missing child. Not as he says to show the truth, because all of it was just his thesis. Some of it from the files but he slyly brought the Calpol and the swinging into his book, ok he didn't say it was true but where is that in the 'files'. He painted the McCann's as 'Swingers who didn't give a damn about their children, parents who drugged their kids up so that they would sleep whilst they went out for dinner, parents who when finding Madeleine's body, hid her and claimed there had been an abduction.
The judge said there it was obvious this book had had an affect on the McCann's they just couldn't prove it. Now you tell me, all you who are excited about the trial. If this had been YOU if someone had written this book about YOU what would you have done? Anyone who says they would have done nothing is a LIAR. You are all HYPOCRITES. Just look at this forum, as soon as someone says something to someone else that they take the wrong way, all hell breaks loose, imagine if that person wrote a book about you. The McCann's couldn't prove it had harmed the search, but of course it would have, when you have people phoning about sightings and the Police telling them 'sorry, we believe Madeleine is dead'.
So, you have Amaral talking about 'neglect' oh yes, I hear you say, the McCann's are guilty of neglect. Amaral drove his car DRUNK with his children in it. What is that if not NEGLECT they could have all been killed.
Amaral may have his dirty money returned to him, but what a way to earn it.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Not as he says to show the truth, because all of it was just his thesis. Yet he calls the book "THE TRUTH OF THE LIE"
Duplicioius man, and let us not forget, a criminal to boot.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 10:46:25 AM
So does that mean we can cross the Express off the list of papers controlled by the McCanns once and for all?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 10:49:31 AM
Never say never. Allegiances can come and go in the twinkling of a lawyer's writ
The Express has always had it in for the McCanns, though sometimes the fist was wrapped in a velvet glove. This latest article tells us only what Gonc told us in his latest interview so nothing we didn't already know. Perhaps some people should leave off their bouncing until the verdict is finally revealed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 10:56:56 AM
This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman. To go to those extremes really is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.
The crown is yours Stephen.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 10:58:13 AM
This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman. To go to those extremes really is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.
The crown is yours Stephen.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:02:44 AM
This is from a poster who will slag off his own country, his own police force, his own countrymen - such is the level of immense pleasure he obviously derives on a daily basis from being as cruel as possible to a grieving family - even to the point of defending a crooked ex-policeman who lied to hide the torture of a defenceless woman. To go to those extremes really is 'devotion' on a grand scale imo.
The crown is yours Stephen.
No benice.
The DEVOTION witnessed on a daily basis, is those like you to the mccanns.
It has become, very ,very sad.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 11:05:26 AM
They are all the things that Stephen keeps crowing about the McCann's isn't it, he says the pro McCann's are devoted to lying parents who neglected their children. Maybe you don't see the irony in that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:11:58 AM
didnt the mcanns alleged neglect lead to maddie vanishing in the least??
The McCann's shouldn't have left the children, but they did not want them to be harmed. What do you call someone who drives with their children in the car DRUNK?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 11:12:32 AM
They are all the things that Stephen keeps crowing about the McCann's isn't it, he says the pro McCann's are devoted to lying parents who neglected their children. Maybe you don't see the irony in that.
Stephen has denied any such devotion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 11:13:37 AM
nota good week for mcann supporters... fund drying up and now a uk main stream paper saying the mcanns unlikley to win?
Shame, isn't it.
It's driving some McCann supporters mad.
Metaphorically of course.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:15:41 AM
mcann supporters seem a bit techy?? &%+((£ is it because the mcanns are unlikley to win against GA? GA would be open to sue people who have damaged his reputation too
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:17:22 AM
mcann supporters seem a bit techy?? &%+((£ is it because the mcanns are unlikley to win against GA? GA would be open to sue people who have damaged his reputation too
No doubt its because of heretical tracts - and on a Sunday, too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:18:54 AM
Stephen has denied it has he. Well others have denied being devoted to the McCann's, it doesn't stop Stephen coming out with the same tripe over and over does it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:20:37 AM
Also, of course the irony being the McCann's have tried to destroy Amaral.
Not going quite the way they expected.
Tried to destroy Amaral !!!! Excuse me, who wrote a book? Was that book not set out to destroy the McCann's? Wake up man. it was certainly not written to show them as a lovely family was it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:21:19 AM
Stephen has denied it has he. Well others have denied being devoted to the McCann's, it doesn't stop Stephen coming out with the same tripe over and over does it.
Tripe is the word I apply to people who come out with rubbish and back the McCann's to the exclusion of all logic and reason.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 11:21:40 AM
It has been explained to Stephen many times that folk support the McCanns because they are appalled at the cruelty, laced with lies and disinformation which is constantly aimed at that family. They also support justice, and believe in the concept of innocent until proved guilty. They do not support witchhunts, lynchmobs and kangaroo courts.
When Stephen accepts that - then I will accept that he doesn't worship the ground Amaral walks on.
That seems fair enough - don't you agree?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:22:00 AM
Tried to destroy Amaral !!!! Excuse me, who wrote a book? Was that book not set out to destroy the McCann's? Wake up man. it was certainly not written to show them as a lovely family was it.
Who exposed their children to unnecessary danger, and as a consequence their eldest child disappeared ?
It's time you woke up and smelt the coffee.
All that is visible this morning is rage from the McCann supporters as the trial has not turned out thge way they expected.
TOUGH.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:23:49 AM
Tripe is the word I apply to people who come out with rubbish and back the McCann's to the exclusion of all logic and reason.
So, tell me Stephen what tripe would that be? That there was an abduction? SY seems to think there was. Now, if one believes there was an abduction is that person devoted to the McCann's?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:24:34 AM
So, tell me Stephen what tripe would that be? That there was an abduction? SY seems to think there was. Now, if one believes there was an abduction is that person devoted to the McCann's?
What abduction ?
Pure make believe.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 11:25:25 AM
Not off topic, just saying Amaral was neglectful of his children. He neglected his children, would he be capable of making up a story if he had crashed and killed them? Would he hide their bodies?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:35:36 AM
Not off topic, just saying Amaral was neglectful of his children. He neglected his children, would he be capable of making up a story if he had crashed and killed them? Would he hide their bodies?
Again is any of this news?
More off topic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:36:57 AM
So in your car you feel a draft when you are driving at high speed?
Not in my car.... nor any car that I have driven
I never feel a draught
Same on aircraft. Strange but I never feel a draft on them either.
You don't have to feel a draught for a seal not to be airtight. If you feel a draught in a car the seal is defective and /or worn which is a different condition but the seal will never be airtight unless done by selective fitting and putting a ring of bolts around the door to pull it down the door lock not being able to pull down sufficiently. The door seals on aircraft work on a different principle. They are plug doors forced into the aperture and thus sealing by pressure differential inside to out. The cabin is pressurised to about 80kPa the external pressure at cruising altitude being about 30kPa. So 50kPa is shoving the door onto the seal. An aircraft cabin is not airtight either. There is a constants bleed out necessitating top up and the whole is controlled by a valve bleeding to atmosphere. So your aircraft analogy is hardly appropriate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on January 25, 2015, 11:44:26 AM
It's you who diverts with 'devoted to the McCann's' at every opportunity, or 'it all comes back to the neglect of the McCann's'.
Now I expect Amaral would be aghast at the thought that anyone would suspect him of making up a story if anything had happened to his children in his car. But that is what he accused the McCann's of. It isn't about the neglect it's about the story he wrote about the McCann's drugging their children and hiding Madeleine's body. Get it now?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 11:49:39 AM
As dust settles on judge’s findings, McCann €1.2 million “libel win” looks distinctly shaky
It took some hours for the much-awaited “reading of the proven facts” to come through last week - and even then newspapers here and abroad got it wrong.
In Britain, the Daily Express ran with the headline: “Kate and Gerry McCann win court ruling in £1 million libel battle against ex-police chief”.
Here, Lusa news agency proclaimed “Court rules damages caused by Gonçalo Amaral to Kate and Gerry McCann proved”.
But they both jumped the gun.
Within hours Público realised the mistake and pulled the Lusa story from its website, running instead with the much-fairer “Court proves Kate and Gerry McCann were “not destroyed” by book by Gonçalo Amaral”.
Lusa regained its equilibrium, posting a revised story the next day carrying much the same headline.
And then this morning (Sunday), four days after judge Emília Mello e Castro handed the lawyers her “reading of the proven facts” - the cornerstones on which she will base her judgement on the long-running case - the Express has done a complete U-turn, running with a new headline proclaiming: “Exclusive: McCann’s will lose £1 million libel trial”
In fact, the exclusive belongs to the Algarve’s Len Port - the only journalist who got the story right first time.
Writing on his Portugal Newswatch blogsite, reproduced regularly by this Portugal Resident news portal, Port’s Wednesday post: “Amaral supporters optimistic about judge’s rulings in McCann libel case” was, in the end, a far more succinct version of what unfolded in Lisbon four days ago.
The reason for the confusion was perhaps two-fold. First, it took reporters time to get their hands on Emília Mello e Castro’s complete list of “proven facts” in the case that centres on Amaral’s book, A Verdade da Mentira (The Truth of the Lie); and second, there appears to have been a degree of press manipulation.
But now that the facts are in the public domain, we can summarise key findings.
Certainly, the likelihood of a resounding McCann win looks distinctly shaky.
Port’s report of “cautious optimism” among Amaral supporters was in itself characteristically cautious.
Supporters of the beleaguered former police inspector targeted by the McCann’s are positively crowing from the rooftops.
“As of Wednesday, the McCann ship is beyond repair”, jubilant Textusa blog reported.
The UK’s Miscarriage of Justice forum took to Twitter to confirm: “Court holds as not proven that book hampered search for Madeleine”, while myriad followers of the case were enthusiastic about what they called the “wonderful news coming from Portugal”.
It was a window in on the welter of support for Amaral’s right to have written his hypothesis for the disappearance of the world’s most famous missing person seven years ago.
As he has frequently told interviewers since the McCann’s lodged their civil action for a reported €1.2 million in damages against him, his life has been made a misery by their action and his “civil position” a target for what he terms “assassination”.
Talking to RTP as the dust began to settle last week, Amaral elaborated on the hiccups caused by what he termed “complete manipulation of the media”.
“Lusa agency, since all of this began, has been taking sides”, he said. “I wouldn’t say as much as they have taken the side of the couple, but they have taken the side of the couple’s lawyer. So there has been completely false news about me”.
Amaral also elaborated on the “assassination of his civil position”.
“In 2009, in January of 2009, I lived in the Algarve and was indicated to run for mayor of Olhão on behalf of the Social Democratic Party [PSD]. That alerted the family and Mr Gerald McCann came to Lisbon… he met with a top political official from PSD who has a French surname, with Dr Rogério Alves and with Dr Isabel Duarte… what happened then was that PSD gave me up as a candidate. This puts the rights of a citizen, the rights of a Portuguese citizen, at stake”.
It was at this point, Amaral told his interviewer, that the McCanns started “thinking about the lawsuit” that is now in its final stages.
Key facts proven and unproven:
Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book (Truth of the Lie), in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, the Polícia Judiciária stopped collecting information and investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? Not proved
Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are completely destroyed, from a moral, social, ethical, sentimental, family point of view, much beyond the pain that their daughter’s absence causes them? Not proved
Because of the statements made by defendant Gonçalo Amaral in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, authors Kate McCann and Gerald McCann suffer permanent anguish, insomnia, lack of appetite, anxiety and irritability, preoccupation and indefinable fear? Proved, but the judge adds that this psychological state is pre-existent to the book, the documentary and the interview and was not caused by the book. Nonetheless, it cannot be reasonable to believe that the book, the documentary and the interview had no effect on the couple, i.e. It had an effect but that is perfectly normal.
Because of defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s statements in the book, in the documentary and in the interview to Correio da Manhã, author Kate McCann is immersed in a deep and serious depression, which has already made her state publicly “I wish I was in a coma, to relieve the pain”? Not proved
The attention of the media and of people in general diminished when defendant Gonçalo Amaral’s book was published? Not proved
For a full list of the proven facts, see the maddiecasefiles.com.
As Len Port explained in his initial report on the judge’s findings: “The McCanns now have time to seek and present authorisation from the British High Court to formally represent their daughter in this case. Madeleine was made a ward of court at the instigation of her parents in April 2008. This could have a bearing on the amount of any compensation eventually awarded”.
“No date has been set for a verdict but it is thought to be more than two months away. Even when it comes, the verdict will probably not be the end of the matter. An appeal is likely.”
The veteran journalist concluded: “Amaral has let it be known that he is considering instigating a counter defamation lawsuit against the McCanns to seek compensation for the enormous damages on different levels he claims they have caused him”.
Natasha Donn natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 11:50:43 AM
Just get over yourself Lace.
The McCann's got their just desserts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 12:01:15 PM
It's you who diverts with 'devoted to the McCann's' at every opportunity, or 'it all comes back to the neglect of the McCann's'.
Now I expect Amaral would be aghast at the thought that anyone would suspect him of making up a story if anything had happened to his children in his car. But that is what he accused the McCann's of. It isn't about the neglect it's about the story he wrote about the McCann's drugging their children and hiding Madeleine's body. Get it now?
Sadly the record gets stuck. I am sorry for you Stephen. Your lack of understanding and ability to keep on spouting the same old rubbish over and over is unbelievable TBH.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 12:08:20 PM
So, tell me Stephen what tripe would that be? That there was an abduction? SY seems to think there was. Now, if one believes there was an abduction is that person devoted to the McCann's?
Well it does seem to be faith driven, since the nature of the crime hasn`t been ascertained let alone collars felt.
Wouldn`t it be helpful to the McCanns and their beleaguered supporters if SY would just say what exactly it is that leaves no doubt as to the McCanns lack of involvement, especially at this difficult time in their struggle with Dr Amaral?
Surely something could be said to exonerate them without doubt once and for all?
Some sort of public and official censure of the dog handler due to his apparent incompetence might also help reduce the stress levels of those making their own "common sense" reports and allegations about his performance and his motives which would seem to be bordering on criminal?
Has a dossier on him been presented to the met yet ?
Should Sky News be alerted by concerned members of the public?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 12:16:20 PM
Well it does seem to be faith driven, since the nature of the crime hasn`t been ascertained let alone collars felt.
Wouldn`t it be helpful to the McCanns and their beleaguered supporters if SY would just say what exactly it is that leaves no doubt as to the McCanns lack of involvement, especially at this difficult time in their struggle with Dr Amaral?
Surely something could be said to exonerate them without doubt once and for all?
Some sort of public and official censure of the dog handler due to his apparent incompetence might also help reduce the stress levels of those making their own "common sense" reports and allegations about his performance and his motives which would seem to be bordering on criminal?
Has a dossier on him been presented to the met yet ?
Should Sky News be alerted by concerned members of the public?
It isn't faith driven...it's evidence driven...but several posters here are too thick to understand what evidence is. They even think the dogs alerts are some sort of evidence even though their own handler says they are not....
unbelievable I know...but true
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 12:21:12 PM
Sadly the record gets stuck. I am sorry for you Stephen. Your lack of understanding and ability to keep on spouting the same old rubbish over and over is unbelievable TBH.
The clear typing of rubbish Sadie belongs to club McCann and people like you.
In fact you and your fellows have become master of thge art of rubbish.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 25, 2015, 12:24:40 PM
Please, refrain from posting, remarks of a goading or insulting nature…Thank you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 12:25:19 PM
It isn't faith driven...it's evidence driven...but several posters here are too thick to understand what evidence is. They even think the dogs alerts are some sort of evidence even though their own handler says they are not....
unbelievable I know...but true
SY believe it was abduction don't they, because Mr McSmithDad & & Mrs Smelly trousers said it was.
Course, Hulk seems to think she was murdered, for some reason.
Can't imagine why.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 12:27:52 PM
It isn't faith driven...it's evidence driven...but several posters here are too thick to understand what evidence is. They even think the dogs alerts are some sort of evidence even though their own handler says they are not....
unbelievable I know...but true
The irrefutable evidence exonerating the McCanns hasn`t been revealed yet though........which still renders you faith driven and the McCanns beleaguered, perhaps unnecessarily.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 25, 2015, 12:28:37 PM
The irrefutable evidence exonerating the McCanns hasn`t been revealed yet though........which still renders you faith driven and the McCanns beleaguered, perhaps unnecessarily.
since when do people have to supply irrefutable evidence they are innocent...what sort of justice system do you want to live in....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 12:43:59 PM
Investigating police require it - they usually call it an alibi.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 12:45:09 PM
Investigating police require it - they usually call it an alibi.
so you think an alibl eqates to irrefutable evidence...then the mccanns have irrefutable evidence... The police may ask for an alibi but the fact someone doesn't have one is not an indication of guilt......
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 12:48:15 PM
since when do people have to supply irrefutable evidence they are innocent...what sort of justice system do you want to live in....
How have they been ruled out?
That is the question.
Must be cause of all that abduction evidence SY have uncovered, the stuff which points to some burglars, a gardener, the receptionist & a pig farmer having conspired to abduct/murder Maddie, change her pyjama top & then make off on foot with her, disguised as her dad.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 12:49:11 PM
It's interesting that as far as I am aware neither the Mail or the Express has added to their articles the 'fact' that the couple McCann have been cleared of all suspicion by SY. That seems to have been a prerequisite for all McCann articles recently.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 12:50:02 PM
so you think an alibl eqates to irrefutable evidence...then the mccanns have irrefutable evidence... The police may ask for an alibi but the fact someone doesn't have one is not an indication of guilt......
No, but it puts you in the frame until the police are satisfied otherwise.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 25, 2015, 12:52:40 PM
since when do people have to supply irrefutable evidence they are innocent...what sort of justice system do you want to live in....
You misinterpret.......
...........irrefutable evidence from SY regarding the impossibility of the McCanns involvement which has led to the assertion that they are not suspects.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 01:03:44 PM
Well it does seem to be faith driven, since the nature of the crime hasn`t been ascertained let alone collars felt.
Wouldn`t it be helpful to the McCanns and their beleaguered supporters if SY would just say what exactly it is that leaves no doubt as to the McCanns lack of involvement, especially at this difficult time in their struggle with Dr Amaral?
Surely something could be said to exonerate them without doubt once and for all?
Some sort of public and official censure of the dog handler due to his apparent incompetence might also help reduce the stress levels of those making their own "common sense" reports and allegations about his performance and his motives which would seem to be bordering on criminal?
Has a dossier on him been presented to the met yet ?
Should Sky News be alerted by concerned members of the public?
I'm unsure what gives you the impression McCann-supporters are beleaguered, but never mind.
The succinct answer to your question is that there is not a shred of evidence to support the contention that the McCanns are, in any way, involved in their daughter's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 25, 2015, 01:06:16 PM
...........irrefutable evidence from SY regarding the impossibility of the McCanns involvement which has led to the assertion that they are not suspects.
I don't misinterpret anything...your request for irrefutable evidence is ridiculous
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 25, 2015, 01:08:39 PM
Since when is an unbreakable alibi not irrefutable evidence?
when the alibi is not irrefutable.....you may note there was no mention of an unbreakable alibi in your original post...just alibi...when you have lost the argument ...just change to a new one
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on January 25, 2015, 01:13:06 PM
Please, refrain from posting, remarks of a goading or insulting nature…Such posts will be removed..Thank you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 01:16:47 PM
I'm unsure what gives you the impression McCann-supporters are beleaguered, but never mind.
The succinct answer to your question is that there is not a shred of evidence to support the contention that the McCanns are, in any way, involved in their daughter's disappearance.
Cousre SY have ruled the McCanns out because of a lack of evidence, whereas there is an abundance of evidence against a bus driver, the receptionist & a pig farmer, hence the reason they haven't been.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:18:02 PM
It has been explained to Stephen many times that folk support the McCanns because they are appalled at the cruelty, laced with lies and disinformation which is constantly aimed at that family. They also support justice, and believe in the concept of innocent until proved guilty. They do not support witchhunts, lynchmobs and kangaroo courts.
When Stephen accepts that - then I will accept that he doesn't worship the ground Amaral walks on.
That seems fair enough - don't you agree?
So those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are ............
........supporters of mobbing the McCanns with a view to lynching them .........do not support justice .........do not believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty .........support the setting up of kangaroo court before which to try the McCanns after witch-hunting them
I think you need to use such terms in order to justify the behaviour of "supporters" towards those who do not share your obsession with defending the McCanns.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:21:21 PM
I'm unsure what gives you the impression McCann-supporters are beleaguered, but never mind.
The succinct answer to your question is that there is not a shred of evidence to support the contention that the McCanns are, in any way, involved in their daughter's disappearance.
.............and non which directly clears them from any involvement.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 25, 2015, 01:23:18 PM
Cousre SY have ruled the McCanns out because of a lack of evidence, whereas there is an abundance of evidence against a bus driver, the receptionist & a pig farmer, hence the reason they haven't been.
and let's never forget Mr. Spotty.
A prime candidate for nothing at all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 25, 2015, 01:23:59 PM
So those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are ............
........supporters of mobbing the McCanns with a view to lynching them .........do not support justice .........do not believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty .........support the setting up of kangaroo court before which to try the McCanns after witch-hunting them
I think you need to use such terms in order to justify the behaviour of "supporters" towards those who do not share your obsession with defending the McCanns.
I think that the nature of the crime has been ascertained to a reasonable level of certainty...I believe the Mccanns have been ruled out..
I believe that those who try to pretend Redwood has lied...I believe those who think the McCanns covered up an accident...started a fraudulent fund...spend hours everyday repeating the same things ...post 6000 tweets attacking them ...range from being deluded to evil
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 01:28:43 PM
I think that the nature of the crime has been ascertained to a reasonable level of certainty...I believe the Mccanns have been ruled out..
I believe that those who try to pretend Redwood has lied...I believe those who think the McCanns covered up an accident...started a fraudulent fund...spend hours everyday repeating the same things ...post 6000 tweets attacking them ...range from being deluded to evil
I believe Mr Redwood was disingenuous, I don't believe it was an accident, I take a day off every now & then, don't use twitter & the McCanns are fair game.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:29:16 PM
I think that the nature of the crime has been ascertained to a reasonable level of certainty...I believe the Mccanns have been ruled out..
I believe that those who try to pretend Redwood has lied...I believe those who think the McCanns covered up an accident...started a fraudulent fund...spend hours everyday repeating the same things ...post 6000 tweets attacking them ...range from being deluded to evil
Well........quite.........which as I said justifies in your collective minds the behaviour and attitude of "supporters"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 01:29:40 PM
Yes you do...........and no I don`t "request" anything.............
SY could help the McCanns by producing that which has led them to assert the "non-suspect" status.
The Met are helping the McCanns by trying to find their child, or at least to find out what happened to her. In the fullness of time they will no doubt report back to the general public but as they have said time and again their job is not to give a running commentary on the investigation which is fair enough in my book. In the meantime it should be enough to take at face value statements issued by the Met without having to doubt every word they say or to read hidden meaning in to them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 01:33:13 PM
So those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are ............
........supporters of mobbing the McCanns with a view to lynching them .........do not support justice .........do not believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty .........support the setting up of kangaroo court before which to try the McCanns after witch-hunting them
I think you need to use such terms in order to justify the behaviour of "supporters" towards those who do not share your obsession with defending the McCanns.
If people on here are obsessed with defending the McCanns are there not also their opposite number - those obsessed with slagging them off? Or don't you see that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 25, 2015, 01:35:53 PM
If people on here are obsessed with defending the McCanns are there not also their opposite number - those obsessed with slagging them off? Or don't you see that?
Sort of like Newtons third law really 8(>((
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 25, 2015, 01:36:30 PM
The Met are helping the McCanns by trying to find their child, or at least to find out what happened to her. In the fullness of time they will no doubt report back to the general public but as they have said time and again their job is not to give a running commentary on the investigation which is fair enough in my book. In the meantime it should be enough to take at face value statements issued by the Met without having to doubt every word they say or to read hidden meaning in to them.
"In the fullness of time?"............The non-suspect-status was asserted early on.......
Any statement or evidence backing it would have helped the McCanns and silenced the "doubters" once and for all, surely?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 01:55:53 PM
If people on here are obsessed with defending the McCanns are there not also their opposite number - those obsessed with slagging them off? Or don't you see that?
Not the point.........
It was the idea that those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are .........
..........supporters of forming a mob in order to lynch the McCanns..........Trying them in a kangaroo Court..........Don`t believe in justice and all the other Over-The-Top- Ducking- Stool and Beating With Sticks terms so beloved of Benice in the original post I replied to and some other "supporters" in theirs.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 25, 2015, 02:00:13 PM
It was the idea that those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are .........
..........supporters of forming a mob in order to lynch the McCanns..........Trying them in a kangaroo Court..........Don`t believe in justice and all the other Over-The-Top- Ducking- Stool and Beating With Sticks terms so beloved of Benice in the original post I replied to and some other "supporters" in theirs.
Nothing wrong with raising questions......what is wrong is accusing the McCanns of criminal acts
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 02:01:05 PM
"In the fullness of time?"............The non-suspect-status was asserted early on.......
Any statement or evidence backing it would have helped the McCanns and silenced the "doubters" once and for all, surely?
I don't think it's the Met's job to silence "doubters" unless they have broken specific laws as well, such as threatening behaviour, stalking, etc. And let's face it, if the Met supplied their reasons for not casting the McCanns or their friends in the roles of prime suspects you still wouldn't accept it or believe a word of it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 25, 2015, 02:18:07 PM
"In the fullness of time?"............The non-suspect-status was asserted early on.......
Any statement or evidence backing it would have helped the McCanns and silenced the "doubters" once and for all, surely?
It has possibly escaped your notice that this is a Portuguese led investigation. In case you have forgotten this entails the investigation falling under the very strict Portuguese Judicial Secrecy Laws.
Therefore if you have any understanding of the situation you will realise that there will be no gratuitous information emanating from SY .
I don't think it was possible for DCI Redwood and his superior officers to anticipate that there are people around whose intelligence is so limited it is impossible for them to understand plain English ... "Neither her parents or any of the members of the group who were with her are either persons of interest or suspects."
This is an active investigation into a missing child yet there are those who act as if it is reality TV and seem to expect that every shred of evidence the police have should be published in a F/B page or a You tube video.
Madeleine McCann should be the focus here ... not a vendetta against her parents.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 02:24:26 PM
I don't think it's the Met's job to silence "doubters" unless they have broken specific laws as well, such as threatening behaviour, stalking, etc. And let's face it, if the Met supplied their reasons for not casting the McCanns or their friends in the roles of prime suspects you still wouldn't accept it or believe a word of it.
There you go............an assertion too far, without backup............just insult a "doubter" regardless .
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 02:32:26 PM
It has possibly escaped your notice that this is a Portuguese led investigation. In case you have forgotten this entails the investigation falling under the very strict Portuguese Judicial Secrecy Laws.
Therefore if you have any understanding of the situation you will realise that there will be no gratuitous information emanating from SY .
I don't think it was possible for DCI Redwood and his superior officers to anticipate that there are people around whose intelligence is so limited it is impossible for them to understand plain English ... "Neither her parents or any of the members of the group who were with her are either persons of interest or suspects."
This is an active investigation into a missing child yet there are those who act as if it is reality TV and seem to expect that every shred of evidence the police have should be published in a F/B page or a You tube video.
Madeleine McCann should be the focus here ... not a vendetta against her parents.
The search for Madeleine should be the focus, of her parents if no one else. So don't you find it strange that they are proactively hindering that search by not displaying the efits released by SY on their campaign and Facebook pages ( the only awareness raising vehicles they use these days ) as well as not encouraging their supporters to do th same ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 25, 2015, 02:33:12 PM
There you go............an assertion too far, without backup............just insult a "doubter" regardless .
Am I wrong then? Do you accept at face value the statement from Andy Redwood that neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects or persons of interest?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 02:40:24 PM
The search for Madeleine should be the focus, of her parents if no one else. So don't you find it strange that they are proactively hindering that search by not displaying the efits released by SY on their campaign and Facebook pages ( the only awareness raising vehicles they use these days ) as well as not encouraging their supporters to do th same ?
The e-fits were posted several times on the FB page - so much for "proactively hindering".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 02:49:35 PM
Am I wrong then? Do you accept at face value the statement from Andy Redwood that neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects or persons of interest?
"I don't think it's the Met's job to silence "doubters" unless they have broken specific laws as well, such as threatening behaviour, stalking, etc. And let's face it, if the Met supplied their reasons for not casting the McCanns or their friends in the roles of prime suspects you still wouldn't accept it or believe a word of it. "
Your post above prompted to my response, so yes you are wrong.
The met have not "supplied their reasons" as you put it.
As is oft pointed out.....this is an ongoing investigation and we are not given a running commentary,........ which apparently includes any reasons behind the McCann non-suspect status.........
We don`t know who will be considered suspects in an investigation which has not been concluded.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 25, 2015, 02:57:35 PM
It was the idea that those who believe that the nature of the disappearance has not yet been ascertained and that the McCanns have not yet been cleared of any possibility of involvement........and that they left 3 toddlers in a vulnerable situation unnecessarily are .........
..........supporters of forming a mob in order to lynch the McCanns..........Trying them in a kangaroo Court..........Don`t believe in justice and all the other Over-The-Top- Ducking- Stool and Beating With Sticks terms so beloved of Benice in the original post I replied to and some other "supporters" in theirs.
Certainly among those who are close followers of events, it can only ever be a matter of opinion about those who continue to insist that the McCanns are not definitely established as innocent whether they are deluded or pursuing a nefarious agenda.
It can only be one or the other.
There is literally no excuse for anyone who has followed events closely to spout opinions of suspicion about the McCanns or any of their friends.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 25, 2015, 03:00:37 PM
The e-fits were posted several times on the FB page - so much for "proactively hindering".
Too bad if the person with 'that missing piece of the jigsaw' looked at their Facebook page at a time when they weren't posted huh ?
Any reason you can think of why the efits aren't displayed in a prominent place on their campaign and Facebook page ALL THE TIME seeing as SY feel he is so important ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 03:40:40 PM
Too bad if the person with 'that missing piece of the jigsaw' looked at their Facebook page at a time when they weren't posted huh ?
Any reason you can think of why the efits aren't displayed in a prominent place on their campaign and Facebook page ALL THE TIME seeing as SY feel he is so important ?
Maybe Scotland Yard have now identified and eliminated this person already. When was the last time the Met were actively promoting this e-fit?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 03:57:10 PM
No Smithman was arrogant and extremely silly. Let's all split up and search for her %£&)**#
You're persisting with your silliness. The Met do not issue e-fits of someone who is sitting on the couch next to them. Please get real.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 25, 2015, 04:27:56 PM
When was the last time The Met actively promoted anything to the general public? The Crimewatch update after the Oct 2013 programme? Even "The Dig" was hardly actively promoted by The Met.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 04:28:30 PM
When was the last time The Met actively promoted anything to the general public? The Crimewatch update after the Oct 2013 programme? Even "The Dig" was hardly actively promoted by The Met.
So they've had plenty of time to identify / eliminate the Smith -fit since then.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 04:33:03 PM
They haven't got any choice in the matter. Ever heard the saying, keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
Ever heard of the saying "mad as a box of frogs"? Well you'd have to be to think the Met went on air with a photofit of Gerry McCann to get the public to phone in and id it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 04:35:01 PM
It has also been known for those actually under suspicion in a crime to make televised appeals to the public whilst sitting alongside Police officers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 04:35:33 PM
It has also been known for those actually under suspicion in a crime to make televised appeals to the public whilst sitting alongside Police officers.
Or, let documentary film crews into their homes & go on chat shows to make appeals for the return of a missing person, whom they had in fact dismembered in a bath tub & disposed of in plastic bags.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Oode9t6Yo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 04:44:01 PM
Do you think it's likely that they issued these photofits knowing that they were of Gerry McCann?
Nobody knows much for certain in this case, and I've no doubt that includes British police. I don't think the investigation is independent, so what the officers themselves may or may not think is irrelevant. They're just doing a job. Imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 04:49:41 PM
Oh I think it's highly likely. Nothing better to knock them off kilter !
It didn't really seem to have that effect did it? Neither McCann looked particularly "knocked off kilter" on Crimewatch seconds after Redwood revealed these e-fits to the public, and it's also very interesting to note that Redwood also drew the public's attention to 4 other e-fits, none of whom resembles Gerry or any other member of the McCanns' holiday party, but you conveniently forget those e-fits. What was that all about then? Knocking them off kilter and then knocking them back on kilter? *&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 04:58:49 PM
It didn't really seem to have that effect did it? Neither McCann looked particularly "knocked off kilter" on Crimewatch seconds after Redwood revealed these e-fits to the public, and it's also very interesting to note that Redwood also drew the public's attention to 4 other e-fits, none of whom resembles Gerry or any other member of the McCanns' holiday party, but you conveniently forget those e-fits. What was that all about then? Knocking them off kilter and then knocking them back on kilter? *&*%£
Not sure how to post pics but I'm sure someone will kindly post the screen grab of Kate caught like a bunny in the headlights at the beginning of the Crimewatch programme. Of course we know from experience how quickly the couple McCann can regain there equilibrium after a major shock ( remember that interview just after the meeting with the PJ when the accused her of disposing of her child's body ? ). Not a flicker !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 05:06:18 PM
Not sure how to post pics but I'm sure someone will kindly post the screen grab of Kate caught like a bunny in the headlights at the beginning of the Crimewatch programme. Of course we know from experience how quickly the couple McCann can regain there equilibrium after a major shock ( remember that interview just after the meeting with the PJ when the accused her of disposing of her child's body ? ). Not a flicker !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 05:09:01 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 05:16:00 PM
McCann interview taken a few days after they were accused by the PJ of being involved in their daughter's disappearance. Gerry is smirking when asked about hearing about any sightings of Madeleine &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 05:19:05 PM
When was the last time The Met actively promoted anything to the general public? The Crimewatch update after the Oct 2013 programme? Even "The Dig" was hardly actively promoted by The Met.
Have you forgotten the Crimewatch program in Spring 2014 ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on January 25, 2015, 05:25:29 PM
McCann interview taken a few days after they were accused by the PJ of being involved in their daughter's disappearance. Gerry is smirking when asked about hearing about any sightings of Madeleine &%+((£
It's called 'duping delight'.
Sharon Leal '100% innocent' didn't use that clip.
Fancy that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on January 25, 2015, 05:35:38 PM
Yes for more possible eye witnesses to come forward.
LOL. You think people who saw Gerry McCann carrying a child through PdL would have forgotten this fact until seeing a not-very-good photofit of him on Crimewatch 7 years later? LOL.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 05:49:41 PM
Not sure how to post pics but I'm sure someone will kindly post the screen grab of Kate caught like a bunny in the headlights at the beginning of the Crimewatch programme. Of course we know from experience how quickly the couple McCann can regain there equilibrium after a major shock ( remember that interview just after the meeting with the PJ when the accused her of disposing of her child's body ? ). Not a flicker !
A screen grab capturing a millisecond of a person's expression can be posted to convey anything you want it to convey, I watched the whole clip earlier and there was nothing off-kilter about the McCanns appearance whatsoever.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 25, 2015, 05:56:36 PM
A screen grab capturing a millisecond of a person's expression can be posted to convey anything you want it to convey, I watched the whole clip earlier and there was nothing off-kilter about the McCanns appearance whatsoever.
You've got to admit it was a corker though - must have taken the make-up artist hours to perfect that degree of haggardness.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 05:59:41 PM
LOL. You think people who saw Gerry McCann carrying a child through PdL would have forgotten this fact until seeing a not-very-good photofit of him on Crimewatch 7 years later? LOL.
There could be another reason. Sending a message loud and clear in the CW studio. We've got rid of your abductor Tannerman and now we're after you!
A screen grab capturing a millisecond of a person's expression can be posted to convey anything you want it to convey, I watched the whole clip earlier and there was nothing off-kilter about the McCanns appearance whatsoever.
Absolutely nothing suspicious about the pair at all is there, oh no, no sirree.
They're the very embodiment of innocence, innocence personified, aren't they.
Do you know, I don't think I've seen anyone, ever, look more innocent than the Dr's McCann.
That's just how overwhelmingly innocent they are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 25, 2015, 06:03:18 PM
Not sure how to post pics but I'm sure someone will kindly post the screen grab of Kate caught like a bunny in the headlights at the beginning of the Crimewatch programme. Of course we know from experience how quickly the couple McCann can regain there equilibrium after a major shock ( remember that interview just after the meeting with the PJ when the accused her of disposing of her child's body ? ). Not a flicker !
so this is the sort of evidence that leads some to doubt the mccanns....reality check needed
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 06:05:29 PM
We hear a lot on this forum about the obsession of McCann supporters - well what is it that drives someone to sit through an interview with the McCanns on Crimewatch and watch it frame by frame to find the least attractive still image from it that they can? Do you see McCann supporters doing this with interviews of Amaral? It's sad and desperate and IMO quite obsessive, not least because it has happened several times, not just with this interview.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 25, 2015, 06:20:25 PM
Erm........You seem to be trying to suggest that the clip was gratuitously selected purely to show a person as "unattractive" rather than as a clip possibly showing her reaction to what was going on at the start of the programme. Is that right?
Well Jassi has drawn attention to Kate's haggard appearance in the clip, however WHATEVER the reason for selecting that clip it demonstrates an unhealthy obsession with the McCanns' appearance(s). Perhaps you can tell me - at what exact point in the interview does that screen grab come from, because in the interview with Kirsty Young I watched which occurs directly after her interview with Andy Redwood there is no point at which Kate & Gerry look straight into the camera.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 06:43:51 PM
Well it does seem to be faith driven, since the nature of the crime hasn`t been ascertained let alone collars felt.
Wouldn`t it be helpful to the McCanns and their beleaguered supporters if SY would just say what exactly it is that leaves no doubt as to the McCanns lack of involvement, especially at this difficult time in their struggle with Dr Amaral?
Surely something could be said to exonerate them without doubt once and for all?
Some sort of public and official censure of the dog handler due to his apparent incompetence might also help reduce the stress levels of those making their own "common sense" reports and allegations about his performance and his motives which would seem to be bordering on criminal?
Has a dossier on him been presented to the met yet ?
Should Sky News be alerted by concerned members of the public?
Why would there be any need for that? Both SY and the Portuguese AG found that nothing revealed by the alerts of the dogs incriminated the McCanns. This is in line with Martin Grime's statement that no evidential value can be placed on the alerts without corroborating evidence. There is no corroborating evidence. IMO the fact that a group of sceptics on the internet disagree with Martin Grime and wrongly believe that a dead body must have once laid in apartment 5A - is of no consequence at all to the police officers investigating this case. Why would it be?
If DCI Redwoods statement that neither the McCanns or their friends are either suspects or persons of interest isn't believed by some sceptics then I fail to see what would convince them - as nothing could be more clear.
The idea that SY and the PJ are conducting some clever conspiracy against the McCanns which also includes conning the British Public with programmes like the Crimewatch appeal is preposterous. They would lose all credibility and no-one would ever believe a word they said again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 25, 2015, 06:44:39 PM
Well Jassi has drawn attention to Kate's haggard appearance in the clip, however WHATEVER the reason for selecting that clip it demonstrates an unhealthy obsession with the McCanns' appearance(s). Perhaps you can tell me - at what exact point in the interview does that screen grab come from, because in the interview with Kirsty Young I watched which occurs directly after her interview with Andy Redwood there is no point at which Kate & Gerry look straight into the camera.
@ 1min 40 secs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ8jmdWlB8Y#t=93
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 25, 2015, 06:50:59 PM
Why would there be any need for that? Both SY and the Portuguese AG found that nothing revealed by the alerts of the dogs incriminated the McCanns. This is in line with Martin Grime's statement that no evidential value can be placed on the alerts without corroborating evidence. There is no corroborating evidence. IMO the fact that a group of sceptics on the internet disagree with Martin Grime and wrongly believe that a dead body must have once laid in apartment 5A - is of no consequence at all to the police officers investigating this case. Why would it be?
If DCI Redwoods statement that neither the McCanns or their friends are either suspects or persons of interest isn't believed by some sceptics then I fail to see what would convince them - as nothing could be more clear.
The idea that SY and the PJ are conducting some clever conspiracy against the McCanns which also includes conning the British Public with programmes like the Crimewatch appeal is preposterous. They would lose all credibility and no-one would ever believe a word they said again.
So why the devoted attention to finding "reasons" for the alerts.............most of which appear to revolve around handler incompetence ...........if the doggie searches are all irrelevant anyway?
Try following your own advice.
The rest of your post is simply concerned with using mine on which to hang unrelated bluster.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on January 25, 2015, 07:02:34 PM
...and I thought you were supposed to be an engineer. The seal is located around the inner opening to the door not flush with the door, when anyone gets in or out of a car their legs get into close proximity of the sill within the door but outside the seal.
So why the devoted attention to finding "reasons" for the alerts.............most of which appear to revolve around handler incompetence ...........if the doggie searches are all irrelevant anyway?
Try following your own advice.
The rest of your post is simply concerned with using mine on which to hang unrelated bluster.
grime himself said that there could be several reasons for the alerts...he has also not confirmed that the alerts were to cadaverine....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 07:13:21 PM
Well Jassi has drawn attention to Kate's haggard appearance in the clip, however WHATEVER the reason for selecting that clip it demonstrates an unhealthy obsession with the McCanns' appearance(s). Perhaps you can tell me - at what exact point in the interview does that screen grab come from, because in the interview with Kirsty Young I watched which occurs directly after her interview with Andy Redwood there is no point at which Kate & Gerry look straight into the camera.
The fact is there is not a shred of evidence against the McCanns - which IMO is why some sceptics have had to resort to poring over every word they have ever said - taking a few words or phrases out of context to change their meaning - and then holding them up as 'evidence' of what nasty cold people they are. It also includes examining every hair, every expression, every photograph (all of which are photoshopped apparently) etc etc in an effort to 'prove' what 'evil' people they are - and insodoing convince themselves that they must therefore be guilty.
The power of 'wishful thinking' never ceases to amaze me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 25, 2015, 08:08:12 PM
And absolutely shit feared at the situation in which they found themselves .
How do you account for the fact that none of the FLO's who spent a lot of time with the McCanns noticed anything untoward about their behaviour. Those police officers are trained to observe.
None of the trauma counsellors who helped them noticed anything suspicious about them either.
Neither did Dr. Sharon Leal - the Behavioural Analyst who after studying the McCanns concluded that they were 100% innocent.
But then what do they know - they are only the experts in that field. Obviously they must have all been completely wrong.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
How do you account for the fact that none of the FLO's who spent a lot of time with the McCanns noticed anything untoward about their behaviour. Those police officers are trained to observe.
None of the trauma counsellors who helped them noticed anything suspicious about them either.
Neither did Dr. Sharon Leal - the Behavioural Analyst who after studying the McCanns concluded that they were 100% innocent.
But then what do they know - they are only the experts in that field. Obviously they must have all been completely wrong.
Let's have some independent analysis, not organized by Clarence Mitchell.
There are other expert opinions on the net, but after all I wouldn't wish to libel the mccanns.
Type on google, it's not hard to find.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 26, 2015, 11:04:34 AM
Let's have some independent analysis, not organized by Clarence Mitchell.
There are other expert opinions on the net, but after all I wouldn't wish to libel the mccanns.
Type on google, it's not hard to find.
Perhaps you could provide proof that Clarence Mitchell had anything to do with the appointment of the UK Family Liaison Police Officers.
Also proof that the trauma counsellors, and Dr. Leal were known to the McCanns prior to Madeleine's disappearance - and therefore could not possibly be independent - and so would obviously be prepared to lie. That is what you are suggesting isn't it? If not - please clarify.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 11:09:45 AM
Perhaps you could provide proof that Clarence Mitchell had anything to do with the appointment of the UK Family Liaison Police Officers.
Also proof that the trauma counsellors, and Dr. Leal were known to the McCanns prior to Madeleine's disappearance - and therefore could not possibly be independent - and so would obviously be prepared to lie. That is what you are suggesting isn't it? If not - please clarify.
Mitchell organized the McCann's PR.
fact.
Meanwhile look up either psychologists views of themccanns.
They don't concur.
Meanwhile the one you mention was on TV and she was hardly going to say anything against the McCann's, was she ?
Perhaps her body language she be analysed as well, during her TV appearance as to what she really thought. 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 26, 2015, 11:10:28 AM
How do you account for the fact that none of the FLO's who spent a lot of time with the McCanns noticed anything untoward about their behaviour. Those police officers are trained to observe.
None of the trauma counsellors who helped them noticed anything suspicious about them either.
Neither did Dr. Sharon Leal - the Behavioural Analyst who after studying the McCanns concluded that they were 100% innocent.
But then what do they know - they are only the experts in that field. Obviously they must have all been completely wrong.
I think it would be very difficult for any professional sent to PDL at that time to tell the difference between the grief the McCanns felt at the loss of a daughter to that displayed if their child had been lost due to an abduction. And don't forget if there had been a fatal accident which had been hidden the McCanns would be censoring their behaviour accordingly,
As to Sharon Leal, what did you expect her to say ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 26, 2015, 11:14:40 AM
Meanwhile look up either psychologists views of themccanns.
They don't concur.
Meanwhile the one you mention was on TV and she was hardly going to say anything against the McCann's, was she ?
Perhaps her body language she be analysed as well, during her TV appearance as to what she really thought. 8)-)))
Please provide proof that the people being discussed were part of any PR exercise. -starting with the Family Liaison Officers. What part did Clarence Mitchell play in their arrival in PdL. FLO's are a normal part of the procedures carried out by UK police in missing child cases.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 11:39:27 AM
Please provide proof that the people being discussed were part of any PR exercise. -starting with the Family Liaison Officers. What part did Clarence Mitchell play in their arrival in PdL. FLO's are a normal part of the procedures carried out by UK police in missing child cases.
Mitchell was 'assigned' to the McCann's for PR and to managrpe the McCann's image, as you well know.
As to what I said earlier, look at alternative analysis of the McCann's behaviour.
It is quite enlightening.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 12:06:27 PM
Mitchell was 'assigned' to the McCann's for PR and to managrpe the McCann's image, as you well know.
As to what I said earlier, look at alternative analysis of the McCann's behaviour.
It is quite enlightening.
Rather than placing my faith in self certified profilers and body language gurus ... I prefer to rely on something with more substance.
So I will go with the professional opinions of highly trained police liaison officers who were there at the relevant time to observe the family and who would have reported anything they noticed which was amiss.
They were also mainly high ranking and must have had many years of combined experience under their belts ... what a pity they didn't think to get someone to vouch that in over 200 cases they had never been wrong ... but such is life.
It should be remembered that we know of them only from their answer to Rebelo's question ... there will be full and concise statements from them elsewhere detailing exactly why they were so confident in their response.
According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:
Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?
My reply to the question was: No.
However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.
One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.
They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.
This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN_MARKLEY.htm
My reply to the question: No.
In relation to the above I would like to mention that at approximately 20.00 on the 5th May, I arrived at the McCann apartment with other family communications officers. We were asked several times during this meeting about questions that Gerald and Kate would like to have followed up and responded to by the PJ.
I remember that during the meetings, Kate revealed that Madeleine had spoken with her in the morning of her disappearance and said that she remembered the twins had cried during the night and that she wanted to know why neither her mother or father had appeared. Kate asked herself whether this fact could have any relation with Madeleine’s disappearance.
Gerry and Kate also questioned whether there was any suggestion that pointed to the use of drugs to facilitate Madeleine's abduction.
This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my knowledge. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JIM_McGARVEY.htm
“Was anything said or done by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your contacts that may have raised any suspicion that they had knowledge of what happened to Madeleine, besides the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators? “
My response to the above question is: No. This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ELEANOR_JOHNSON.htm
My response to the above question is: No. This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MICHAEL_GRAHAM.htm
My response to the above question is: No. This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NEIL_HOLDEN.htm
My response to the above question is: No. This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CAROLINE_BURROWS.htm
If the FLO had had any doubts about the Drs McCann there is no doubt they would have reported them ... that is their function after all.
Then again ... perhaps they don't 'do' dreams ... sticking to observation and facts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on January 26, 2015, 12:17:25 PM
Duffers and no-hopers, these Leicestershire Police Liaison Officers ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 12:19:29 PM
Where was Gerry from 10 to 10.10? DW got to the apartment at 10 - No Gerry there just Kate. No urgent phone calls to the police at 10 by Gerry or Kate knowing straight away that she had been abducted according to them (windows/shutters open, doors/gate closed). Gerry was searching the streets alone looking for his daughter. And then his mute doppelgänger is seen minutes later moving quickly and carrying a child matching the description of Madeleine McCann in a deep sleep.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 12:30:46 PM
Where was Gerry from 10 to 10.10? DW got to the apartment at 10 - No Gerry there just Kate. No urgent phone calls to the police at 10 by Gerry or Kate. Gerry was searching the streets alone looking for his daughter. And then his doppelgänger is seen minutes later carrying a child matching the description of Madeleine McCann in a deep sleep.
You really do have a very limited repertoire however you care to rephrase from post to post you end up with the same old same old same old ... repetition is just so passée and tiresome ... but who am I to complain if it satisfies some deep seated need within your psyche.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 12:32:07 PM
You really do have a very limited repertoire however you care to rephrase from post to post you end up with the same old same old same old ... repetition is just so passée and tiresome ... but who am I to complain if it satisfies some deep seated need within your psyche.
Those are the facts. Truth hurts!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 12:57:00 PM
Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 01:10:28 PM
Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.
How do we know that ? Who provides the definitive timing for anything?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 01:26:05 PM
Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.
It was actually 10:03 and he wasn't.
That's the truth.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 01:28:32 PM
Where was Gerry from 10 to 10.10? DW got to the apartment at 10 - No Gerry there just Kate. No urgent phone calls to the police at 10 by Gerry or Kate knowing straight away that she had been abducted according to them (windows/shutters open, doors/gate closed). Gerry was searching the streets alone looking for his daughter. And then his mute doppelgänger is seen minutes later moving quickly and carrying a child matching the description of Madeleine McCann in a deep sleep.
Such a mystery, ain't it PF.
I'm surprised that Gerry didn't bump into the Smith family whilst he was out searching.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on January 26, 2015, 01:37:06 PM
Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.
What's the source for this?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 01:38:36 PM
Martin Smith stated, when questioned on the phone by Mark W Thomas in 2013, that he saw "Smithman" at 9.55pm. Fact. Gerry was still at the table - TRUTH.
Aoife Smith said they left Kelly's Bar at 10 so the sighting had to be minutes later. She was correct on the leaving Dolphin restaurant time. Martin and Peter were not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 02:06:47 PM
Would I be right in assuming that first definitive times we get is when Tapas group, or O/C employees phones started to get active ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:06:51 PM
I'm sure you could edit in some more barking as easily as it could have been edited out.
If Eddie had been doing a tango with Anton Du Beke in between jumping at the wall and running in circles the video would still be a total irrelevance although slightly more believable. The videos are not worth the hot air expended on them.
We know from the files that the official video taken by the PJ was date and time stamped.
This is an amateur private video taken by private individuals to be used for private intentions ... the lack of a time and date stamp proves this is not the official PJ video and therefore can be nothing other than an irrelevance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:08:50 PM
Aoife Smith said they left Kelly's Bar at 10 so the sighting had to be minutes later. She was correct on the leaving Dolphin restaurant time. Martin and Peter were not.
All other timelines do not concur with Aoife's.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 02:09:29 PM
If Eddie had been doing a tango with Anton Du Beke in between jumping at the wall and running in circles the video would still be a total irrelevance although slightly more believable. The videos are not worth the hot air expended on them.
We know from the files that the official video taken by the PJ was date and time stamped.
This is an amateur private video taken by private individuals to be used for private intentions ... the lack of a time and date stamp proves this is not the official PJ video and therefore can be nothing other than an irrelevance.
Course, Eddies alerts are affected by the presence or otherwise of date stamps.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:16:29 PM
If Eddie had been doing a tango with Anton Du Beke in between jumping at the wall and running in circles the video would still be a total irrelevance although slightly more believable. The videos are not worth the hot air expended on them.
We know from the files that the official video taken by the PJ was date and time stamped.
This is an amateur private video taken by private individuals to be used for private intentions ... the lack of a time and date stamp proves this is not the official PJ video and therefore can be nothing other than an irrelevance.
Do you think this may be Grime's copy?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:16:36 PM
Aoife Smith said they left Kelly's Bar at 10 so the sighting had to be minutes later. She was correct on the leaving Dolphin restaurant time. Martin and Peter were not.
The Smith party of nine left a restaurant and went briefly to a pub, with children and a weary pregnant woman in tow whose husband was apparently very concerned to get her back to the hotel, and left not a trace of their visit.
The till receipts are just that ... till receipts ... and according to them it seems to have been a very quiet night, yet it seems the staff in Kelly's Bar were unable to confirm their presence.
Pity the CCTV at the hotel couldn't be used to firm up the time of arrival.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:16:49 PM
A young girl of 12 and other children in a group of nine lied @)(++(* The yard have talked to the family and found the sighting credible.
Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment. — Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left.
— The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run.
At the time she saw his face. (AS)
Smithman the Mute was moving a lot quicker when his face could be seen under that light where Aoife was 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 26, 2015, 02:17:49 PM
I don't have much faith in the recollections of a young woman who didn't know what day it was when she returned home from her holiday.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:20:50 PM
The Smithman efits didn't exist for 5 years *&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:23:45 PM
I'm more interested in why someone would want to invent a sighting of another man carrying a child. I'm also very interested to know if RM really has been made an arguido again. Time will tell. Literally, and not 10.03.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 02:25:51 PM
I don't have much faith in the recollections of a young woman who didn't know what day it was when she returned home from her holiday.
Funny, I have little faith in the parents of a missing child who don't bother calling the police, suffer selective amnesia & smell like death, myself.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:25:59 PM
" ... were we dreaming ? "
Surely not another dream ... wonder why it took a fortnight for the penny to drop, particularly when we are told the Smith Grandchildren were terrified to sleep on their own because a little girl was missing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:27:36 PM
Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. (Martin Smith)
Martin Smith said around 10 in his statement but Aoife said she was sure of the time in her statement. Big difference.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on January 26, 2015, 02:29:51 PM
Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. (Martin Smith)
Martin Smith said around 10 in his statement but Aoife said she was sure of the time in her statement. Big difference.
Forget it PF, the whole family were either dreaming or lying.
That's the most logical conclusion obviously.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:30:49 PM
OK ... personally speaking I'm not sure who that efit represents ... but it seems that SY and the PJ were in possessjon of them over the time scale you have noted ... must be something to do with that which got the ST into a spot of hot water last year.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:35:10 PM
A young girl of 12 and other children in a group of nine lied @)(++(* The yard have talked to the family and found the sighting credible.
Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment. — Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left.
— The individual's gait was normal, between a fast walk and a run.
At the time she saw his face. (AS)
Smithman the Mute was moving a lot quicker when his face could be seen under that light where Aoife was 8)--))
"The yard have talked to the family and found the sighting credible."
It would be good if you would please give a cite for that statement ... preferably from a SY source.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:36:30 PM
Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. (Martin Smith)
Martin Smith said around 10 in his statement but Aoife said she was sure of the time in her statement. Big difference.
It's very easy to be sure of something until someone proves otherwise. I will never convince you that Smithman does not exist. I hope that SY will be able to.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:37:41 PM
Forget it PF, the whole family were either dreaming or lying.
That's the most logical conclusion obviously.
---- Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house. (GM 10 May 2007)
— His trousers were smooth "rights" along the legs, beige in colour, cotton fabric, thicker than linen, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration. (Aoife Smith)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 26, 2015, 02:39:04 PM
Which timelines? Tapas had two- then couldn't recall when asked again. They didn't have phones or watches on...So could their timeline possibly be inaccurate? Oh I am thinking YES! and that is a definite Yes!
There was also no planned times to check on the children so nothing to tack.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:42:53 PM
Which timelines? Tapas had two- then couldn't recall when asked again. They didn't have phones or watches on...So could their timeline possibly be inaccurate? Oh I am thinking YES! and that is a definite Yes!
There was also no planned times to check on the children so nothing to tack.
Gerry and Matt had watches on.
"By the way, he clarifies that that news had been communicated to all the friends who were in the Tapas by KM subsequent to her having personally been to her flat to check that her children were well.
The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 02:44:08 PM
"By the way, he clarifies that that news had been communicated to all the friends who were in the Tapas by KM subsequent to her having personally been to her flat to check that her children were well.
The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)
How extraordinary!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 02:45:22 PM
OK ... personally speaking I'm not sure who that efit represents ... but it seems that SY and the PJ were in possessjon of them over the time scale you have noted ... must be something to do with that which got the ST into a spot of hot water last year.
Just to say while you are here that I posted the "evidence" you demanded yesterday of your accusing me of "trolling" you a few months back, but it was removed last night in the cull.
Your post is still there in my posting history, though, if you are still demanding "evidence";..........having been allowed to stand un-moderated at the time.
You did accuse me........ and I put up the post you asked for.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 02:47:14 PM
"By the way, he clarifies that that news had been communicated to all the friends who were in the Tapas by KM subsequent to her having personally been to her flat to check that her children were well.
The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)
Presumably an uncorroborated time and no way of knowing how accurate his watch was.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 02:50:41 PM
It has Duarte Levy's imprint on it, Misty, so no idea.
I would imagine that if Martin Grime was using it to promote his private business he would have used small excerpts to illustrate the dogs 'getting a result'.
Apart from the lack of date and time stamps I would be astounded if the person filming evidence for the PJ would have produced such an amateurish end product.
Whoever has ownership is just another entrepreneur who is using Madeleine McCann as a cash cow, wonder how much has been raked in since 2008.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 02:52:34 PM
Presumably an uncorroborated time and no way of knowing how accurate his watch was.
"and the last at 21:51, when Kate, Madeleine's mother goes to the apartment, before alerting to the disappearance." (Phone calls and hairs frame 4 suspects)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 26, 2015, 02:58:13 PM
until SY believed he did, then he existed! and became part of the new investigations - blowing Tannerman away AND MOVING from that other awkward situation about Gerry and jez not 'bumping' into JT...
Oh I misread something. They did have watches but did not use them to have a proper sheduled-tracking checking service...it was more relaxed=,as and when.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 26, 2015, 02:58:59 PM
It has Duarte Levy's imprint on it, Misty, so no idea.
I would imagine that if Martin Grime was using it to promote his private business he would have used small excerpts to illustrate the dogs 'getting a result'.
Apart from the lack of date and time stamps I would be astounded if the person filming evidence for the PJ would have produced such an amateurish end product.
Whoever has ownership is just another entrepreneur who is using Madeleine McCann as a cash cow, wonder how much has been raked in since 2008.
Levy was filming it Brietta. If you watch the video by the car. you can see his reflection!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 03:02:39 PM
Just to say while you are here that I posted the "evidence" you demanded yesterday of your accusing me of "trolling" you a few months back, but it was removed last night in the cull.
Your post is still there in my posting history, though, if you are still demanding "evidence";..........having been allowed to stand un-moderated at the time.
You did accuse me........ and I put up the post you asked for.
I did see it, thank you, and I am heartened to see that you are capable of recognising yourself within a generalisation.
Perhaps a more appropriate generalisation might have been WUM. As invited to do so, I had a look at your posting history, and that seems quite appropriate.
However the fact that the infantile exchange was whooshed should probably tell you something ... it does me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 03:07:24 PM
until SY believed he did, then he existed! and became part of the new investigations - blowing Tannerman away AND MOVING from that other awkward situation about Gerry and jez not 'bumping' into JT...
Oh I misread something. They did have watches but did not use them to have a proper sheduled-tracking checking service...it was more relaxed=,as and when.
Matt gave a definite time when Kate left. Not that he thinks it was around 9:50. He said he checked between meals. You're not going be half-way though a meal at 9:30 and leave it to check. You would finish it then check. So when he finished his starter he left at 9:25 to check before his main course arrives.
The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 03:09:52 PM
I note it hasn't occurred to some people that they have missed the boat regarding the court case, and the mccanns are going to come away from it with b....r all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 03:15:44 PM
Matt gave a definite time when Kate left. Not that he thinks it was around 9:50. He said he checked between meals. You're not going be half-way though a meal at 9:30 and leave it to check. You would finish it then check. So when he finished his starter he left at 9:25 to check before his main course arrives.
The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50." (MO 10 May 2007)
It seems reasonable to me that he might check what time it was when he left the table but why should he bother to check the time that Kate left?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 26, 2015, 03:18:38 PM
Levy was filming it Brietta. If you watch the video by the car. you can see his reflection!
Absolutely unmistakeable, DCI.
He certainly filmed the version we are familiar with in the garage, but Harrison in his statement said the PJ had used a time and date stamp when filming. The video would have been useless as evidence otherwise as it would have been too easily tampered with and capable of being edited inappropriately otherwise.
I think this was a private video and I believe the PJ must have known it was being filmed. I find it extraordinary if the PJ contracted Levy ... they have access to their own officers to work on taking photographic evidence still and movie versions.
I would also have expected them to use a clapper board between takes and when filming was started and stopped.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 03:23:35 PM
It seems reasonable to me that he might check what time it was when he left the table but why should he bother to check the time that Kate left?
Maybe he was checking if it was his time to do another check as well instead of twiddling his thumbs as he put it.
"I’m a fairly fast eater and I was finished and rather than just sitting there twiddling my thumbs while everybody else was still eating, I’d have usually gone." (MO)
And the only person he remembers seeing at night on his checks was Jez.
4078 "What about in the evenings when you were going back to check on G****, do you recall some of the other people around?"
Reply "No, there'd be rarely, rarely anybody about, maybe an occasional one person. Erm, tut, was he, was it the chap, whose name I can’t remember, he had a child who was willing to be part of, or was being suggested for the interview, Jeremy, Jeremy or somebody?
4078 "Yeah".
Reply "Who had a child and I think I'd seen him around because I think their child didn't sleep particularly well and he may have been pushing or he might have been collecting from crèche, but what day or what time, I don't really remember".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 03:39:03 PM
I don't need to give a cite for something that's elementary.
You have made a statement that the Smith family, citizens of the Republic, have been interviewed by foreign officers from New Scotland Yard and you are able to provide a cite ??
Must bring your statement into doubt as you have no way of showing the veracity of it or exactly where the efits promoted by DCI Redwood originate.
That is what is elementary.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on January 26, 2015, 05:14:22 PM
I realise it is not news, but someone several pages back asked whether the weather Portugal in winter is much like the UK in winter.
The answer is no, and it is relevant to the incident.
Portugal is a mix of deciduous and coniferous trees, much like the UK. The trees around apartment 5A are deciduous, therefore you might well think that they would have little or no leaves on 3 May 2007, thereby allowing 5A to be illuminated at the front by 2 nearby street lights.
The reality is that the Algarve does not freeze in winter. I have seen hail twice in 3 years, but never snow, and never ice. That is, it seldom or never falls below freezing at night.
During the day in mid-winter it seldom falls below 15 centigrade.
If it is sunny, which it often is, it is sun-bathing weather, literally.
It tends to rain a lot in November. It tends to rain a lot in February. In general, for the rest of the year there is no rain. It is close to bone dry.
So the deciduous trees do not drop their leaves in winter. Winter is where they stock up on water and enjoy the sunshine (and bushes put out flowers, but that is a digression).
By May 2007, the deciduous trees around 5A were fully on leaves, and these are at the same height as the street lights.
This explains why on 3rd May 2007 the front of 5A and the car park outside could be in relative darkness. While the Tanner sighting and the Smith sighting were actually fairly well-illuminated, despite reports to the contrary.
The layout for lights at both sightings is on shininginluz.worpress.com if you are interested. In summary the street lights are of the order of 20 metres apart, and the main issue is that they are sodium lights, casting that well-known yellowish glow.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on January 26, 2015, 05:23:32 PM
You have made a statement that the Smith family, citizens of the Republic, have been interviewed by foreign officers from New Scotland Yard and you are able to provide a cite ??
Must bring your statement into doubt as you have no way of showing the veracity of it or exactly where the efits promoted by DCI Redwood originate.
That is what is elementary.
Madeleine McCann: Key witness accuses Portuguese police of not taking his vital prime suspect evidence seriously
Retired businessman Martin Smith provided details for an e-fit of the prime suspect after spotting the mystery man close to where Maddie vanished.......
“It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”
He said he has met with Scotland Yard detectives twice over the past 18 months to help them with the new probe. He added: “We‘d all love to see the police get to the bottom of what happened.”
Levy was filming it Brietta. If you watch the video by the car. you can see his reflection!
Where? I've never noticed that. I just had another (quick) scan of that and can't see any reflection resembling him. If the voice is the person filming, it doesn't sound like him either. His voice is deeper than videoman's, isn't it?
Wasn't it established that there were two people filming?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 05:36:32 PM
Thanks for sharing this clip WS 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 26, 2015, 05:40:02 PM
Where? I've never noticed that. I just had another (quick) scan of that and can't see any reflection resembling him. If the voice is the person filming, it doesn't sound like him either. His voice is deeper than videoman's, isn't it?
Wasn't it established that there were two people filming?
In the Scenic car windows. Not sure if the rear or side window was best shot. Don't know if anyone else was filming but only Levy's edited ones are shown to the public. You would have thought the filming would have been in the files.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on January 26, 2015, 05:46:13 PM
Madeleine McCann: Key witness accuses Portuguese police of not taking his vital prime suspect evidence seriously
Retired businessman Martin Smith provided details for an e-fit of the prime suspect after spotting the mystery man close to where Maddie vanished.......
“It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”
He said he has met with Scotland Yard detectives twice over the past 18 months to help them with the new probe. He added: “We‘d all love to see the police get to the bottom of what happened.”
This article also includes the following quote from Redwood....
A reward of up to £20,000 is being offered for information leading to the identification, arrest and prosecution of those responsible for Madeleine’s abduction, he said.
so there you are..it's an abduction
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 05:52:51 PM
This article also includes the following quote from Redwood....
A reward of up to £20,000 is being offered for information leading to the identification, arrest and prosecution of those responsible for Madeleine’s abduction, he said.
so there you are..it's an abduction
Has he paid out yet? If not, perhaps it is because it wasn't an abduction.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 05:53:08 PM
This article also includes the following quote from Redwood....
A reward of up to £20,000 is being offered for information leading to the identification, arrest and prosecution of those responsible for Madeleine’s abduction, he said.
so there you are..it's an abduction
Is that the same way SY thought Barry George was guilty of Jill Dando's murder ?
The actual suspect was blonde, George wasn't of course.
What actually is Redwood's success rate in solving crimes by the way ?
He never solved Madeleine's disappearance and there is no evuidence of abduction, as they as we know are back to square one.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 26, 2015, 05:56:59 PM
Where? I've never noticed that. I just had another (quick) scan of that and can't see any reflection resembling him. If the voice is the person filming, it doesn't sound like him either. His voice is deeper than videoman's, isn't it?
Wasn't it established that there were two people filming?
There is no doubt that levy is clearly reflected in the windows of the Renault ... check the part of the video when Keela is inside the vehicle and prior to the boot being raised. He is clearly recognisable.
I have no doubt there were two cameras ... one the PJ operator's complete with the necessary time and date stamp ... but I have never seen it established or verified anywhere or the officer identified.
IMO the images posted on the internet are clearly amateur and do not ring true because they are a reprise of the official version.
Although we see Keela having a good lick in the back of the Renault, there are no images of the dramatic extraction of the key card from the door pocket, presumably because the PJ had already removed it. Nor have we seen the exciting bucket of sand scenario, perhaps because the card had been sent off for testing.
Neither have we seen online video of the Murat residence search ... possibly because it was not so easy for a civilian to gain access to a private residential property in occupation by the owner and arguido.
All the videos we have seen were filmed in holiday lets or public properties.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 26, 2015, 05:59:52 PM
Have you noticed that Redwood refers to "those responsible" rather than in the singular?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 26, 2015, 06:04:10 PM
There is no doubt that levy is clearly reflected in the windows of the Renault ... check the part of the video when Keela is inside the vehicle and prior to the boot being raised. He is clearly recognisable.
I have no doubt there were two cameras ... one the PJ operator's complete with the necessary time and date stamp ... but I have never seen it established or verified anywhere or the officer identified.
IMO the images posted on the internet are clearly amateur and do not ring true because they are a reprise of the official version.
Although we see Keela having a good lick in the back of the Renault, there are no images of the dramatic extraction of the key card from the door pocket, presumably because the PJ had already removed it. Nor have we seen the exciting bucket of sand scenario, perhaps because the card had been sent off for testing.
Neither have we seen online video of the Murat residence search ... possibly because it was not so easy for a civilian to gain access to a private residential property in occupation by the owner and arguido.
All the videos we have seen were filmed in holiday lets or public properties.
Yes, After the posters were removed. I have just noticed something else a bit odd. When Grime was putting Keela in the car, the filming cut to the front. It doesn't show Keela entering the car, unless I missed it!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 26, 2015, 06:06:06 PM
Yes, After the posters were removed. I have just noticed something else a bit odd. When Grime was putting Keela in the car, the filming cut to the front. It doesn't show Keela entering the car, unless I missed it!
Well spotted DCI and a perfect example of the brain 'remembering' and filling in the things you expect to see ... I would have sworn that I had seen her going in, I can actually visualise it ... but when checking we can see Martin Grime with his hand on the door handle and Keela in working mode at 1:24:57 the video then cuts and when we next see it Keela is inside the vehicle.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 26, 2015, 07:45:59 PM
Redwood - DCI in charge of Operation Grange with access to all available information, witnesses, etc + years of professional experience = "mistaken" Jassi - internet "sceptic", with limited access to available information and 0 years of relevant experience = ? &%+((£
and what is Redwoods success rate in solving crimes ?
Dando case....
McCann case...
Two round digits express the answers quite appropriately. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on January 26, 2015, 07:48:37 PM
That 20K is safe and there is more than one person responsible for Madeleine's disappearance. The black jacket 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 26, 2015, 07:58:56 PM
There is no doubt that levy is clearly reflected in the windows of the Renault ... check the part of the video when Keela is inside the vehicle and prior to the boot being raised. He is clearly recognisable.
I have no doubt there were two cameras ... one the PJ operator's complete with the necessary time and date stamp ... but I have never seen it established or verified anywhere or the officer identified.
IMO the images posted on the internet are clearly amateur and do not ring true because they are a reprise of the official version.
Although we see Keela having a good lick in the back of the Renault, there are no images of the dramatic extraction of the key card from the door pocket, presumably because the PJ had already removed it. Nor have we seen the exciting bucket of sand scenario, perhaps because the card had been sent off for testing.
Neither have we seen online video of the Murat residence search ... possibly because it was not so easy for a civilian to gain access to a private residential property in occupation by the owner and arguido.
All the videos we have seen were filmed in holiday lets or public properties.
Thanks for helping me find where to look. I have no idea who it is, but he doesn't look like Levy to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 26, 2015, 08:03:55 PM
Trying to make it a bit lighter...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 26, 2015, 08:14:01 PM
But Jassi could be pulling a double blind could he/she not? Therefore you cannot know for certain and your judgement will be colored by your own prejudices to a lesser or greater extent. So your comment "not very plausible" = it is plausible but with qualification.
What is 100% NOT plausible is that Jassi is in a position to know better than Andy Redwood with regard to this case, whether she's a keystone cop or not. Now challenge that, smart@rse!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on January 26, 2015, 08:16:33 PM
What is 100% NOT plausible is that Jassi is in a position to know better than Andy Redwood with regard to this case, whether she's a keystone cop or not. Now challenge that, smart@rse!
What has Redwood found ?
and the answer is NOTHING. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 26, 2015, 08:29:15 PM
I would be unable to recognise Levy from even a good still photograph ... I have seen a gross guy in dark clothes in a photo somewhere ... so I know he is overweight and has a full head of dark hair, but I wouldn't recognise his face.
If I was producing an efit ... it would have to be another egg man.
The impression I had of the photographer fitted my idea of Levy when I caught glimpses of him as he moved around the car ... and I am content that people who would recognise him facially don't think it is him. Which raises the question of Levy's part in this and why his copyright?
I am sure it is not the official PJ photographer ... the quality of filming is way too bad ... maybe he lent his camera out?
There are uniformed officers in one shot ... GNR?? ... so there was a police presence during this filming.
But whatever ... I think the whole thing is decidedly iffy and does not stand scrutiny.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on January 26, 2015, 10:03:46 PM
I would be unable to recognise Levy from even a good still photograph ... I have seen a gross guy in dark clothes in a photo somewhere ... so I know he is overweight and has a full head of dark hair, but I wouldn't recognise his face.
If I was producing an efit ... it would have to be another egg man.
The impression I had of the photographer fitted my idea of Levy when I caught glimpses of him as he moved around the car ... and I am content that people who would recognise him facially don't think it is him. Which raises the question of Levy's part in this and why his copyright?
I am sure it is not the official PJ photographer ... the quality of filming is way too bad ... maybe he lent his camera out?
There are uniformed officers in one shot ... GNR?? ... so there was a police presence during this filming.
But whatever ... I think the whole thing is decidedly iffy and does not stand scrutiny.
There is a slight resemblance (bearing in mind that the camera is in the way and the screen shot isn't brilliant). But I really don't think it's him. Videoman looks younger, not as large, I can't see a beard...
mcann supporters seem a bit techy?? &%+((£ is it because the mcanns are unlikley to win against GA? GA would be open to sue people who have damaged his reputation too
GA damaged his own reputation %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on January 27, 2015, 12:51:57 AM
I think it would be very difficult for any professional sent to PDL at that time to tell the difference between the grief the McCanns felt at the loss of a daughter to that displayed if their child had been lost due to an abduction. And don't forget if there had been a fatal accident which had been hidden the McCanns would be censoring their behaviour accordingly,
As to Sharon Leal, what did you expect her to say ?
Firstly Faith - the idea that 2 people, who were capable of dumping their own child's dead body with the clinical coldness of psychopaths required to do that unspeakable deed - could also be capable of genuine grief is not possible IMO.
It would seem there are two conflicting schools of thought amongst sceptics.
One is that the McCanns (that is both of them - not just one) by sheer luck BOTH just happened to be born brilliant actors capable of duping several professional experts about their behaviour and have successfully pulled the wool over their eyes - despite hours/days/weeks of direct contact with - and observation by - those various experts - who found nothing amiss in their behaviour.
But at the same time videos are being brought on here to 'prove' that actually the McCanns are such rubbish actors that even any old member of the public - never mind experts - can see through them at a glance - because their acting skills are so bad they can't keep up their act long enough to even to get through a short interview - without their masks always slipping and revealing their true 'evil' dispositions.
Both can't be right - but IMO both can and are completely wrong.
I would expect Dr. Leal to carry out the assessment she was asked to perform and report her findings in the normal way. Unless of course she was being blackmailed or bribed to do otherwise - but then I'm no conspiracy theorist so that doesn't enter into the equation as far as I am concerned. Perhaps you know differently.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 09:46:21 AM
Firstly Faith - the idea that 2 people, who were capable of dumping their own child's dead body with the clinical coldness of psychopaths required to do that unspeakable deed - could also be capable of genuine grief is not possible IMO.
It would seem there are two conflicting schools of thought amongst sceptics.
One is that the McCanns (that is both of them - not just one) by sheer luck BOTH just happened to be born brilliant actors capable of duping several professional experts about their behaviour and have successfully pulled the wool over their eyes - despite hours/days/weeks of direct contact with - and observation by - those various experts - who found nothing amiss in their behaviour.
But at the same time videos are being brought on here to 'prove' that actually the McCanns are such rubbish actors that even any old member of the public - never mind experts - can see through them at a glance - because their acting skills are so bad they can't keep up their act long enough to even to get through a short interview - without their masks always slipping and revealing their true 'evil' dispositions.
Both can't be right - but IMO both can and are completely wrong.
I would expect Dr. Leal to carry out the assessment she was asked to perform and report her findings in the normal way. Unless of course she was being blackmailed or bribed to do otherwise - but then I'm no conspiracy theorist so that doesn't enter into the equation as far as I am concerned. Perhaps you know differently.
There are other analyses by other psychologists who say the mccanns are concealing the truth.
As you should know with even your limited understanding of statistics, one sample being questioned, i.e. Dr. Leal, is insufficient to draw accurate conclusions.
perhaps you should also watch the mccanns on film/video.
Their body language and non-verbal responses are quite illuminating.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 27, 2015, 10:02:46 AM
There are other analyses by other psychologists who say the mccanns are concealing the truth.
As you should know with even your limited understanding of statistics, one sample being questioned, i.e. Dr. Leal, is insufficient to draw accurate conclusions.
perhaps you should also watch the mccanns on film/video.
Their body language and non-verbal responses are quite illuminating.
Perhaps you could answer my question to you on how you know that Clarence Mitchell was involved in the appointment of the FLO's from Leicester police force - i.e. the trained professionals who found nothing suspicious in the McCanns' behaviour.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 10:12:58 AM
Perhaps you could answer my question to you on how you know that Clarence Mitchell was involved in the appointment of the FLO's from Leicester police force - i.e. the trained professionals who found nothing suspicious in the McCanns' behaviour.
Why are you ignoring other Psychologists and other parties, who have analysed the mccanns behaviour and saying they are not telling the truth ?
As to Mitchell, he has been the orchestrating the mccanns contacts. FACT.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on January 27, 2015, 10:22:59 AM
When you address some of my questions, which you invariably ignore, we may have something to discuss.
LOL at the irony - you haven't answered any questions of mine yet - you've just moved the goalposts or ignored them. I will therefore have to take it you have no answer to my question re your claim that CM orchestrated the arrival of the FLO's in PdL.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 11:13:05 AM
LOL at the irony - you haven't answered any questions of mine yet - you've just moved the goalposts or ignored them. I will therefore have to take it you have no answer to my question re your claim that CM orchestrated the arrival of the FLO's in PdL.
I've answered the questions.
Mitchell has organized the mccanns contacts from the near onset of this case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 27, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
Mitchell has organized the mccanns contacts from the near onset of this case.
http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/crime/2008/200809-cba-family-liaison-officer.pdf I suggest you read the document on Family Liaison Officers at the above link and you will see how risible your opinion that these professionals take second place to your body language 'experts' and self certificated criminal profilers really is.
I think you will also realise exactly how ridiculous your assertion is that any press spokesman for any family caught up in a criminal case would be allowed to interfere in police procedure.
Common sense really.
Pity it isn't used more often by those who have a predilection for getting the knife into Madeleine McCann's parents and the families of other missing children.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 12:53:19 PM
http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/crime/2008/200809-cba-family-liaison-officer.pdf I suggest you read the document on Family Liaison Officers at the above link and you will see how risible your opinion that these professionals take second place to your body language 'experts' and self certificated criminal profilers really is.
I think you will also realise exactly how ridiculous your assertion is that any press spokesman for any family caught up in a criminal case would be allowed to interfere in police procedure.
Common sense really.
Pity it isn't used more often by those who have a predilection for getting the knife into Madeleine McCann's parents and the families of other missing children.
You can waffle on until the end of time.
The nature of the crime is uncertain.
The mccanns as Madeleine's legal guardians were responsible for her safety.
They were derelict in that duty.
Nothing you can say will change that fact.
and as I said earlier, the view of one psychologist on a n orchestrated TV program is hardly conclusive.
Until the actual crime is determined, several possibilities remain on the table, as to who caused Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 27, 2015, 01:28:24 PM
The mccanns as Madeleine's legal guardians were responsible for her safety.
They were derelict in that duty.
Nothing you can say will change that fact.
and as I said earlier, the view of one psychologist on a n orchestrated TV program is hardly conclusive.
Until the actual crime is determined, several possibilities remain on the table, as to who caused Madeleine's disappearance.
How terribly amusing ... you appear to have selected a reputable practitioner to diss.
Such self delusion may be comforting ... but it would be worth while trying trying to keep up with what goes on in the real world ... your head will only hurt for a wee while, but it won't take long to get acclimatised once you get rid of the blinkers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on January 27, 2015, 03:15:47 PM
I shall be deleting the entire content of any post containing insults.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 27, 2015, 03:46:48 PM
How terribly amusing ... you appear to have selected a reputable practitioner to diss.
Such self delusion may be comforting ... but it would be worth while trying trying to keep up with what goes on in the real world ... your head will only hurt for a wee while, but it won't take long to get acclimatised once you get rid of the blinkers.
Your judgement is clouded by your support for the McCann's, and the 'abduction' for which there is nho proof at all.
Now try addressing any other psychologist who believes the McCann's aren't telling the truth.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 27, 2015, 04:24:13 PM
Your judgement is clouded by your support for the McCann's, and the 'abduction' for which there is nho proof at all.
Now try addressing any other psychologist who believes the McCann's aren't telling the truth.
The only people whose opinion I'm at all bothered about are those who have already decided to reopen the investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance and in the process have exonerated her parents from any involvement in the crime.
Although there is a hiatus at the moment in news coming out of the investigation it is probably safe to assume that work is progressing both here and in Portugal to apprehend the person/s responsible if at all possible. With new faces in the key positions I think we can be assured of their determination and that of the authorities of both countries to complete the unfinished business of 2007/8 by finding out what happened to Madeleine McCann.
If there are people who prefer to ignore the fact that witnesses are being interviewed and reinterviewed ... none of whom have even the most tenuous connection with the Drs McCann or their friends ... that is entirely up to them.
Those members of society who are not stuck in a time warp are not interested in abusing the parents of a missing child in any way ... they are more interested in Madeleine McCann and the current search for her ... and the only complaint is that it took so long in happening.
It is probably worth reminding you it is only happening because of the hard work and tenacity of her parents to make it happen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 28, 2015, 11:27:25 PM
Quick question and please mods move if posted incorrectly.
Can anyone verifybwhether there is any mention of Operation Grange or the team's contact details after October last year on either the official Madeleine campaign website or the OFM Facebook page ?
I know that the efits are no longer being displayed but has OG now been painted ought of the picture completely by TM ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2015, 10:52:10 AM
Apparently the McCann's plan to use the faithful to push their own agenda has suffered a bit of a glitch. Seems there was so much dissention when the thread below was posted on the OFM Facebook page that it had to be pulled.
Official Find Madeleine Campaign 2 hrs · Edited · CHALLENGE OUR MPS: Invitation to Hacked Off's Parliamentary Campaign Day - 25th February 2015, 12.00pm - 3.30pm
Please join us and our supporters in Parliament to lobby MPs on Wednesday 25th February from 12.00pm to 3.30pm in Committee Room 11.
Following Prime Minister’s Questions – where we hope to put the PM on the spot - we will hear from party spokespersons, victims of press abuse and civil society organisations that work with individuals and groups who are regularly targeted or stigmatised by much of the British press.
It will be an opportunity for you to hear whether and how the main political parties intend to keep their promises to deliver Leveson, to meet some of our well-known supporters, and - if you choose - to lobby your own MP on a one-to–one basis.
If you can come, it would be very helpful (but not essential) for us if you would sign up here (https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/challeng ... hacked-off… ) so that we can estimate numbers of attendees. Also please do let us know if you any questions.
We will be in touch again soon with more details.
Thank you for your continuing support - it really does make a difference to the success of the campaign.
Best wishes,
The Hacked Off Team
https://www.facebook.com/hackinginquiry?fref=ts K...... s..... How does this help to find Madeleine??
R.... A........... C..... T........ I would like to know how is the process to find Madeleine.
K............... W..... What has this got to do with Official Find Madeleine Campaign
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 03, 2015, 02:47:15 PM
Apparently the McCann's plan to use the faithful to push their own agenda has suffered a bit of a glitch. Seems there was so much dissention when the thread below was posted on the OFM Facebook page that it had to be pulled.
Official Find Madeleine Campaign 2 hrs · Edited · CHALLENGE OUR MPS: Invitation to Hacked Off's Parliamentary Campaign Day - 25th February 2015, 12.00pm - 3.30pm
Please join us and our supporters in Parliament to lobby MPs on Wednesday 25th February from 12.00pm to 3.30pm in Committee Room 11.
Following Prime Minister’s Questions – where we hope to put the PM on the spot - we will hear from party spokespersons, victims of press abuse and civil society organisations that work with individuals and groups who are regularly targeted or stigmatised by much of the British press.
It will be an opportunity for you to hear whether and how the main political parties intend to keep their promises to deliver Leveson, to meet some of our well-known supporters, and - if you choose - to lobby your own MP on a one-to–one basis.
If you can come, it would be very helpful (but not essential) for us if you would sign up here (https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/challeng ... hacked-off… ) so that we can estimate numbers of attendees. Also please do let us know if you any questions.
We will be in touch again soon with more details.
Thank you for your continuing support - it really does make a difference to the success of the campaign.
Best wishes,
The Hacked Off Team
https://www.facebook.com/hackinginquiry?fref=ts K...... s..... How does this help to find Madeleine??
R.... A........... C..... T........ I would like to know how is the process to find Madeleine.
K............... W..... What has this got to do with Official Find Madeleine Campaign
yes...the trolls strike again
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 03, 2015, 02:50:35 PM
'How does this help to find Madeleine??'
Gosh, I've never seen such hateful trolling.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 03, 2015, 03:06:35 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 13, 2015, 08:02:25 PM
He said: "He has been on this one man crusade as he is perfectly satisfied that Madeleine McCann was removed from the property in 2007 and has found her way into a paedophile ring.
Poor little girl got snatched by some paedos & he's perfectly satisfied with it?!
A very twisted man indeed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 13, 2015, 08:20:11 PM
"He finds it sickening to look at these things but he thought that his crusade was such that he had to go through it.'
Poor guy was just trying to help, leaving no stone unturned n'all that.
Anyone buying it?
Not for a minute WS but I suppose if you include the description detailed on page 129 of Madeleine in your narrative it is bound to attract some undesirables.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 14, 2015, 07:53:29 AM
Not for a minute WS but I suppose if you include the description detailed on page 129 of Madeleine in your narrative it is bound to attract some undesirables.
I'd actually forgotten about p129 & Kate McCanns paedo obsessed mind.
Which is surprising really, because, being a sceptic, & therefore a paedophile, it was the only reason I bought Kate's book........
Eleanor:
--- Quote from: John on June 17, 2013, 07:48:58 PM ---Discussing her abducted daughters genitalia in a book which anyone can read was a huge blunder...another one!
--- End quote ---
How was it a blunder? The Book was a best seller. And so many more McCann Sceptics bought it when they heard about page 129.
I find it odd how some people seem obsessed by that sentence on p. 129. It's a mother expressing her torment at the idea.
But then I find it odd that some people also obsess about the eye shadow photo. All I see is a little girl playing at being a "grand lady".
Mccann did it for shock value in the book.
There was no need for it.
it merely added to the conjecture of her state of mind,
Also of course there is the point that Madeleine's siblings could at some point read the book and see that sentence.
As to the photograph of Madeleine in make up, that just added to the conspiracy theorists of paedophile involvement in the case. Again it was a very stupid thing to do, added to everything else the mccanns have shown poor judgement in.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on February 14, 2015, 11:04:54 AM
it merely added to the conjecture of her state of mind,
Also of course there is the point that Madeleine's siblings could at some point read the book and see that sentence.
As to the photograph of Madeleine in make up, that just added to the conspiracy theorists of paedophile involvement in the case. Again it was a very stupid thing to do, added to everything else the mccanns have shown poor judgement in.
Are you saying that at some stage in their lives the twins will be confronted with the word 'genitals! Good grief! call out the firing squad immediately.
I doubt whether there is a mother in history whose child has been abducted - who has NOT had those horrific thoughts push themselves into their minds as time went on - but let's pretend they didn't eh? and then it can be used as yet another stick to beat the McCanns with. A more pathetic one I have yet to see.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 14, 2015, 11:23:36 AM
Anyone who thinks that that sentence on pg 129 was written to titillate has some serious personal issues IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 14, 2015, 11:30:59 AM
Anyone who thinks that that sentence on pg 129 was written to titillate has some serious personal issues IMO.
I could add to that ... anyone who sees a photo of an innocent little girl in make up ... which by the look of it she has put on by herself, as generations of small children before her have done ... only to read something abhorrent into it, in my opinion, really does have serious personal issues.
In my neck of the woods we have a saying, "look in before you look out."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 11:33:29 AM
Are you saying that at some stage in their lives the twins will be confronted with the word 'genitals! Good grief! call out the firing squad immediately.
I doubt whether there is a mother in history whose child has been abducted - who has NOT had those horrific thoughts push themselves into their minds as time went on - but let's pretend they didn't eh? and then it can be used as yet another stick to beat the McCanns with. A more pathetic one I have yet to see.
What a pathetic and stupid reply, by another mccann supporter.
Are you for real ?
Do you think her siblings will want to read about their sisters genitals ?
There was no need for it in the book.
it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired.
So GET REAL.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 14, 2015, 11:38:24 AM
What a pathetic and stupid reply, by another mccann supporter.
Are you for real ?
Do you think her siblings will want to read about their sisters genitals ?
There was no need for it in the book.
it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired.
So GET REAL.
Stephen, please get real yourself. Kate McCann does not devote a chapter or even a page or paragraph to the subject of genitals. Iin the scheme of things I would think the fact that the twins will have to read about the McCanns' appalling treatment by the press, the police and some members of the public will be every bit as disturbing as having to read what was in effect simply the words of a devastated mother articlating a fleeting glimpse of the horror going on in her head at the time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 14, 2015, 11:47:52 AM
What a pathetic and stupid reply, by another mccann supporter.
Are you for real ?
Do you think her siblings will want to read about their sisters genitals ?
There was no need for it in the book.
it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired.
So GET REAL.
I think it is time for you to "get real", I think there is far more out there for Madeleine McCann's sibling to cope with than a sentence in their mother's book MADELEINE using an appropriate word for ??? well what else would you call female sex organs? ... the dictionary says genitals.
You really do have a warped view of the mother of a missing child "it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired."
Possibly it would be worth while taking my advice to look in before looking out ... and you might catch a glimpse of the picture you paint of yourself ... just enough of a glimpse to make you feel ashamed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 11:48:27 AM
Stephen, please get real yourself. Kate McCann does not devote a chapter or even a page or paragraph to the subject of genitals. Iin the scheme of things I would think the fact that the twins will have to read about the McCanns' appalling treatment by the press, the police and some members of the public will be every bit as disturbing as having to read what was in effect simply the words of a devastated mother articlating a fleeting glimpse of the horror going on in her head at the time.
Appalling treatment by the press ?
Don't make laugh.
The press has been bowing down to the McCann's for years.
and as to Kate McCann, she and her husband bear full responsibility for what happened or happens to their children, in their care.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 11:51:21 AM
I think it is time for you to "get real", I think there is far more out there for Madeleine McCann's sibling to cope with than a sentence in their mother's book MADELEINE using an appropriate word for ??? well what else would you call female sex organs? ... the dictionary says genitals.
You really do have a warped view of the mother of a missing child "it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired."
Possibly it would be worth while taking my advice to look in before looking out ... and you might catch a glimpse of the picture you paint of yourself ... just enough of a glimpse to make you feel ashamed.
They only people who should be ashamed are those who placed their children in unnecessary danger.
SO GET REAL.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on February 14, 2015, 11:55:07 AM
Members are reminded of the forum rules. Please keep debate convivial and refrain from using any language which could be considered unhelpful or abusive.
Admin
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 14, 2015, 12:00:54 PM
They only people who should be ashamed are those who placed their children in unnecessary danger.
SO GET REAL.
Don't you think it may be considered a little inappropriate to use the defence put forward by a monster who enjoys viewing and exchanging media containing images of child abuse with other paedophiles to berate the parents of a missing child?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 14, 2015, 12:02:13 PM
Don't you think it may be considered a little inappropriate to use the defence put forward by a monster who enjoys viewing and exchanging media containing images of child abuse with other paedophiles to berate the parents of a missing child?
He's innocent until proven guilty, isn't he?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 14, 2015, 12:05:43 PM
Don't you think it may be considered a little inappropriate to use the defence put forward by a monster who enjoys viewing and exchanging media containing images of child abuse with other paedophiles to berate the parents of a missing child?
YET AGAIN you are making a link to a paedophile in the mccann case which simply hasn't been established.
The mccanns as her parents were her legal guardians and responsible for her safety.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 14, 2015, 12:29:03 PM
Appalling treatment by the press Stephen, yes. Have you forgotten the Leveson Enquiry already?
That was only half of the story, Alfred. All of the papers at all times bent over backwards to assist the McCanns in their campaigns/PR, even the papers simultaneously running ridiculous front page stories. You haven't forgotten Leveson. We haven't forgotten Mitchell's Creepyman press conference.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 14, 2015, 12:34:05 PM
I think it is time for you to "get real", I think there is far more out there for Madeleine McCann's sibling to cope with than a sentence in their mother's book MADELEINE using an appropriate word for ??? well what else would you call female sex organs? ... the dictionary says genitals.
You really do have a warped view of the mother of a missing child "it was done to gain sympathy and it backfired."
Possibly it would be worth while taking my advice to look in before looking out ... and you might catch a glimpse of the picture you paint of yourself ... just enough of a glimpse to make you feel ashamed.
IMO I think the use of the phrase in the book says a lot about Kate, most mothers in that situation would not want to think it, let alone say it out loud and as for writing it in a published book! What was the reason for doing it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 17, 2015, 08:17:11 AM
IMO I think the use of the phrase in the book says a lot about Kate, most mothers in that situation would not want to think it, let alone say it out loud and as for writing it in a published book! What was the reason for doing it?
To give the reader a glimpse of the horror that fills the mind of the mother of an abducted child, why do you think she did it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2015, 10:29:37 AM
To give the reader a glimpse of the horror that fills the mind of the mother of an abducted child, why do you think she did it?
I think it was ill-advised and like the 'make-up' picture ( which of course to every rightminded person is absolutely innocent ) to some of a certain persuasion could be used to gratify themselves. I believe Mark William-Thomas felt the same and unless the McCanns are outrageously stupid, which we know they're not, they must have regarded it as a possibility too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 17, 2015, 11:17:38 AM
I think it was ill-advised and like the 'make-up' picture ( which of course to every rightminded person is absolutely innocent ) to some of a certain persuasion could be used to gratify themselves. I believe Mark William-Thomas felt the same and unless the McCanns are outrageously stupid, which we know they're not, they must have regarded it as a possibility too.
Oh please. To "some of a certain persuasion" the Junior Boden catalogue could be used to gratify themselves. Does freedom of expression (something you are a BIG fan of) need to be curtailed on the off-chance some creep might be turned on by what you've written?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 17, 2015, 11:40:52 AM
IMO I think the use of the phrase in the book says a lot about Kate, most mothers in that situation would not want to think it, let alone say it out loud and as for writing it in a published book! What was the reason for doing it?
It's because she doesn't actually know how an innocent mother of a genuinely abducted child would feel, & so she had to fabricate it.
All part of the 'it was the paedos wot dunnit, it wasn't us really guv, honest' narrative.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2015, 11:48:14 AM
Oh please. To "some of a certain persuasion" the Junior Boden catalogue could be used to gratify themselves. Does freedom of expression (something you are a BIG fan of) need to be curtailed on the off-chance some creep might be turned on by what you've written?
Yes if it's a child's safety that you may be jeopardising.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 17, 2015, 12:09:37 PM
It's because she doesn't actually know how an innocent mother of a genuinely abducted child would feel, & so she had to fabricate it.
All part of the 'it was the paedos wot dunnit, it wasn't us really guv, honest' narrative.
And you do?
Have you never been in a situation bouncing between hope and dread? Hoping for the best, yet dreading (and somehow trying to prepare yourself) for the worst?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on February 17, 2015, 12:24:45 PM
Have you never been in a situation bouncing between hope and dread? Hoping for the best, yet dreading (and somehow trying to prepare yourself) for the worst?
Of course he does!
WS would make a wonderful mother ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 17, 2015, 12:43:29 PM
Have you never been in a situation bouncing between hope and dread? Hoping for the best, yet dreading (and somehow trying to prepare yourself) for the worst?
I never said I did, but I'm certain that she doesn't.
I'm not buying the fantasy abduction, so save your words.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 17, 2015, 03:03:19 PM
In the beginning we are told the McCanns were told by experts not to show how upset they were because it may bring pleasure to whoever was holding Madeleine. That being the case surely even you can see how alerting that same kidnapper to the obscene pictures his abuse is causing in the mind of the child's mother may not be advisable ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 17, 2015, 03:38:26 PM
In the beginning we are told the McCanns were told by experts not to show how upset they were because it may bring pleasure to whoever was holding Madeleine. That being the case surely even you can see how alerting that same kidnapper to the obscene pictures his abuse is causing in the mind of the child's mother may not be advisable ?
I don't see how it puts into jeopardy the life of a child, but if it does then perhaps you could let me know what you think of the actions of those who are determined to draw attention to this short passage in the book at every available opportunity, of those who have even made a handy meme of the page number in question so that those seeking titillation from the passage don't even have to read through the whole book but can find it very easily - what say you to their actions, eh? You see these same people whilst supposedly repulsed by this passage also seem curiously drawn to it, and intent on drawing others' attention to it, do you think this is wise, seeing as how it may in your view jeopardise the safety of children?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 17, 2015, 06:06:47 PM
I don't understand what the fuss is all about. The first thing in the mind of any terrified mother would be A Paedophile and what might be happening to a much loved daughter. Why the word Genitals should upset some people so much is beyond my comprehension. What other word would one use? Unless of course these people find it to be disgusting. In which case I might worry about their understanding of The English Language.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 17, 2015, 06:22:57 PM
I doubt it very much, Davel, I don't think it would matter what the McCanns said, what they did, what they wore or if they scratched their eyebrows ... some cause for complaint would be found.
Too right. I remember a poster nearly wetting thier knickers, because Gerry didn't have his wedding ring on for an interview he did.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on February 18, 2015, 12:13:01 AM
Too right. I remember a poster nearly wetting thier knickers, because Gerry didn't have his wedding ring on for an interview he did.
Really ? Shameful behaviour !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 18, 2015, 08:37:10 AM
McCann tweets journalist told to reveal source
Fiona Hamilton Crime Correspondent Published at 10:01PM, February 17 2015
A coroner has demanded that a Sky News reporter divulge his source for a story about a woman who was found dead after the broadcaster revealed that she had “trolled” the parents of Madeleine McCann. The demand has raised fresh concerns about the state encroaching on journalists’ rights to keep their sources confidential, in the wake of revelations that police forces looked into their phone records on hundreds of occasions. Martin Brunt, Sky’s crime correspondent, is due to give evidence next month at the inquest of Brenda Leyland, 63, whose body was found in October.
Fiona Hamilton Crime Correspondent Published at 10:01PM, February 17 2015
A coroner has demanded that a Sky News reporter divulge his source for a story about a woman who was found dead after the broadcaster revealed that she had “trolled” the parents of Madeleine McCann. The demand has raised fresh concerns about the state encroaching on journalists’ rights to keep their sources confidential, in the wake of revelations that police forces looked into their phone records on hundreds of occasions. Martin Brunt, Sky’s crime correspondent, is due to give evidence next month at the inquest of Brenda Leyland, 63, whose body was found in October.
Fiona Hamilton Crime Correspondent Published at 10:01PM, February 17 2015
A coroner has demanded that a Sky News reporter divulge his source for a story about a woman who was found dead after the broadcaster revealed that she had “trolled” the parents of Madeleine McCann. The demand has raised fresh concerns about the state encroaching on journalists’ rights to keep their sources confidential, in the wake of revelations that police forces looked into their phone records on hundreds of occasions. Martin Brunt, Sky’s crime correspondent, is due to give evidence next month at the inquest of Brenda Leyland, 63, whose body was found in October.
the full article states that brunt does not have to reveal his source....
excellent
Excellent article when read in full.
"Leicestershire police wrote to Sky on behalf of the coroner, Catherine Mason, asking a series of questions including the identity of the person who was behind the dossier of tweets. Sky has said that it will protect its source, arguing that its rights are protected under European law. It is understood that neither the police nor the coroner have responded since".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 18, 2015, 12:35:08 PM
"Leicestershire police wrote to Sky on behalf of the coroner, Catherine Mason, asking a series of questions including the identity of the person who was behind the dossier of tweets. Sky has said that it will protect its source, arguing that its rights are protected under European law. It is understood that neither the police nor the coroner have responded since".
That skates rather gently round the Coroners powers one feels.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on February 18, 2015, 12:38:56 PM
Number of child kidnappings in Britain increased by a fifth in the last year Kidnappings and abductions of children under 18 rose by 13% in 2013-14 The vast majority of abductions, 401 from 559, carried out by strangers Number of children being abducted by parents was also up by six per cent Figures were compiled by charity Parents and Abducted Children Together They believe there is a different attitude to reporting such crimes in wake of Rotherham scandal.
The number of children in Britain who have been snatched has increased with almost 900 youngsters taken by strangers or their parents in the last year, a new report reveals.
Figures gathered by police forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and the charity Parents and Abducted Children Together (Pact) show that child kidnappings have increased by almost a fifth.
During 2013-14, kidnappings and abductions of children under 18 rose by 13 per cent since the previous year.Kidnappings alone, which are defined as using force or fraud to remove a child, increased at a faster rate, rising by 18 per cent over the same period.
Most abductions, 401 out of 559, were carried out by people other than the children's parents, while 321 were kidnapped.
The number of children being abducted by parents was 158, up by six per cent on the previous year.
And the charity believe the increase in numbers since 2012-13 could be down to a different attitude in recording such crimes in the light of the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandalPact's director of research Geoff Newiss said: 'I would imagine that (Rotherham) is something to do with it.
'I wouldn't be surprised if forces are more sensitive now to the need to record what comes their way.'
The highest rate of child abduction and kidnap was in Northern Ireland, with 11.6 offences per 100,00 children in the last year.
Meanwhile the lowest was in Wales where there were 4.5 offences per 100,000 children.
The largest forces such as the Metropolitan Police recorded the highest number of cases, while kidnapping and abduction offences in Lancashire doubled and there were also significant increases in Kent, North Yorkshire and Northumbria.
Mr Newiss added: 'Our analysis shows quite alarming rises in child abduction and kidnapping over the last two years.'However, it's difficult to say whether this is a consequence of victims being more likely to report crime, changes in the way police record it, or a genuine increase in offending.
'It is important to stress that child abduction or kidnapping is relatively rare.
'However, we know that many incidents go unreported to, or unrecorded by, the police.'
While Susannah Drury, Director of Policy for Missing People, said: 'The report has uncovered worrying increases in child abductions and kidnapping offences - highlighting the importance of a quick and effective national response to these crimes. '
The Association of Chief Police Officers say there has been a significant increase in the recording of these kinds of crimes due to a 'considerable focus' on improving crime-recording practices.
Thought people knew who the source was, i am sure i was on a forum and saw a discussion congratulating a certain person for sending all the stuff to sky lol.....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 24, 2015, 08:38:28 AM
Number of child kidnappings in Britain increased by a fifth in the last year Kidnappings and abductions of children under 18 rose by 13% in 2013-14 The vast majority of abductions, 401 from 559, carried out by strangers Number of children being abducted by parents was also up by six per cent Figures were compiled by charity Parents and Abducted Children Together They believe there is a different attitude to reporting such crimes in wake of Rotherham scandal.
The number of children in Britain who have been snatched has increased with almost 900 youngsters taken by strangers or their parents in the last year, a new report reveals.
Figures gathered by police forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and the charity Parents and Abducted Children Together (Pact) show that child kidnappings have increased by almost a fifth.
During 2013-14, kidnappings and abductions of children under 18 rose by 13 per cent since the previous year.Kidnappings alone, which are defined as using force or fraud to remove a child, increased at a faster rate, rising by 18 per cent over the same period.
Most abductions, 401 out of 559, were carried out by people other than the children's parents, while 321 were kidnapped.
The number of children being abducted by parents was 158, up by six per cent on the previous year.
And the charity believe the increase in numbers since 2012-13 could be down to a different attitude in recording such crimes in the light of the Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandalPact's director of research Geoff Newiss said: 'I would imagine that (Rotherham) is something to do with it.
'I wouldn't be surprised if forces are more sensitive now to the need to record what comes their way.'
The highest rate of child abduction and kidnap was in Northern Ireland, with 11.6 offences per 100,00 children in the last year.
Meanwhile the lowest was in Wales where there were 4.5 offences per 100,000 children.
The largest forces such as the Metropolitan Police recorded the highest number of cases, while kidnapping and abduction offences in Lancashire doubled and there were also significant increases in Kent, North Yorkshire and Northumbria.
Mr Newiss added: 'Our analysis shows quite alarming rises in child abduction and kidnapping over the last two years.'However, it's difficult to say whether this is a consequence of victims being more likely to report crime, changes in the way police record it, or a genuine increase in offending.
'It is important to stress that child abduction or kidnapping is relatively rare.
'However, we know that many incidents go unreported to, or unrecorded by, the police.'
While Susannah Drury, Director of Policy for Missing People, said: 'The report has uncovered worrying increases in child abductions and kidnapping offences - highlighting the importance of a quick and effective national response to these crimes. '
The Association of Chief Police Officers say there has been a significant increase in the recording of these kinds of crimes due to a 'considerable focus' on improving crime-recording practices.
Worrying statistics - unless you don't believe in abductions.
An alarmingly high number. Strange that we don't seem to have anything like that number reported in the popular press. There was no indication, either, of how many of these cases led to charges and prosecutions.
Perhaps all will be revealed in another report.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 24, 2015, 10:54:01 AM
An alarmingly high number. Strange that we don't seem to have anything like that number reported in the popular press. There was no indication, either, of how many of these cases led to charges and prosecutions.
Perhaps all will be revealed in another report.
stranger abductions of small children, like Maddie and Ben will be reported in the MSM and are extremely rare....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 24, 2015, 11:21:10 AM
Agreed, but the report is about children. Unfortunately the DM give no link to this report so one can only guess at what is included in the figures quoted.
For those who want to wade through it, the report can be found here - http://www.childabduction.org.uk/images/PACT_Child_Abduction_report_2015_final.pdf but there are no details about what was included, nor any indication of prosecutions or outcomes.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 01:05:18 AM
Does anyone know anything about the event to remember Madeleine reportedly taking on the 5th of March ? There doesn't seem to be much talk of it on the two main supporter forums or the OFM Facebook page
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 25, 2015, 07:32:09 AM
Does anyone know anything about the event to remember Madeleine reportedly taking on the 5th of March ? There doesn't seem to be much talk of it on the two main supporter forums or the OFM Facebook page
where did you hear about it...that will tell us a lot
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 25, 2015, 09:08:33 AM
Thank you DCI but it would seem that the # is just another excuse for the supporters and sceptics to insult each other. There also appears to be no interest in the initiative from the largest supporter forums who seem to almost have forgotten Madeleine in favour of their campaign to demonise non-believers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 25, 2015, 10:57:10 AM
Thank you DCI but it would seem that the # is just another excuse for the supporters and sceptics to insult each other. There also appears to be no interest in the initiative from the largest supporter forums who seem to almost have forgotten Madeleine in favour of their campaign to demonise non-believers.
Probably because it's nothing to do with the McCanns. It's just another Facebook page set up by someone named Richard. I see only sceptics posted on there insulting was Xclamation and JillyC throwing insults at each other. That's the difference between us, I care about Madeliene, and no one forgets her.
How many supporters are on there compared to sceptics? 000000000000000
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 12:32:04 PM
Probably because it's nothing to do with the McCanns. It's just another Facebook page set up by someone named Richard. I see only sceptics posted on there insulting was Xclamation and JillyC throwing insults at each other. That's the difference between us, I care about Madeliene, and no one forgets her.
How many supporters are on there compared to sceptics? 000000000000000
It seems to me that if the OFM campaign can encourage their supporters to get behind the HackedOff campaign they could also harness that goodwill to get behind this initiative to remember Madeleine,don't you think ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on February 25, 2015, 12:36:40 PM
It seems to me that if the OFM campaign can encourage their supporters to get behind the HackedOff campaign they could also harness that goodwill to get behind this initiative to remember Madeleine,don't you think ?
Take it up with them then!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 12:42:39 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 25, 2015, 01:53:05 PM
Is this something akin to the the march timed to coincide with the anniversary of Madeleine McCann's disappearance organised by the people who fought tooth and nail to prevent the reopening of the investigation into her case?
If so, my apologies, as it more properly should be in the thread dealing with obsessives.
If not ... why on earth would anyone in their right mind wish to be tainted by association with the organisation of anything making free use of Madeleine McCann's name to campaign against her?
no comment! @march4maddie1 24 Nov 2013 Add your name to march for Madeleine Beth Mccann on the 3rd may 2014 http://m.facebook.com/events/253773958105731 … #mccann
Rothley Pillowcase™ @RothleyPillow @march4maddie1 CONGRATUALTIONS in getting so many justice-seekers for Maddie onto your page! Nudge me for RTs anytime bud #McCann #Savile
no comment! @march4maddie1 24 Nov 2013 @RothleyPillow cheers Roth I will good support is hard to find usually! Not in this case the tide is turning #mccann 0 replies . 1 retweet 1 favourite Reply Retweet1 Favourite1 More
Rothley Pillowcase™ @RothleyPillow 24 Nov 2013 @march4maddie1 Tell me about it! LOL The desperately depraved #McCann cult THREATENED us with the press again So erm > #GREATPublicityIfSo 0 replies . 1 retweet 1 favourite Reply Retweet1 Favourite1 More
no comment! @march4maddie1 24 Nov 2013 @RothleyPillow really missed it :( you know when their getting scared #mccann
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 03:18:58 PM
Is this something akin to the the march timed to coincide with the anniversary of Madeleine McCann's disappearance organised by the people who fought tooth and nail to prevent the reopening of the investigation into her case?
If so, my apologies, as it more properly should be in the thread dealing with obsessives.
If not ... why on earth would anyone in their right mind wish to be tainted by association with the organisation of anything making free use of Madeleine McCann's name to campaign against her?
no comment! @march4maddie1 24 Nov 2013 Add your name to march for Madeleine Beth Mccann on the 3rd may 2014 http://m.facebook.com/events/253773958105731 … #mccann
Rothley Pillowcase™ @RothleyPillow @march4maddie1 CONGRATUALTIONS in getting so many justice-seekers for Maddie onto your page! Nudge me for RTs anytime bud #McCann #Savile
no comment! @march4maddie1 24 Nov 2013 @RothleyPillow cheers Roth I will good support is hard to find usually! Not in this case the tide is turning #mccann 0 replies . 1 retweet 1 favourite Reply Retweet1 Favourite1 More
Rothley Pillowcase™ @RothleyPillow 24 Nov 2013 @march4maddie1 Tell me about it! LOL The desperately depraved #McCann cult THREATENED us with the press again So erm > #GREATPublicityIfSo 0 replies . 1 retweet 1 favourite Reply Retweet1 Favourite1 More
no comment! @march4maddie1 24 Nov 2013 @RothleyPillow really missed it :( you know when their getting scared #mccann
Nothing like that Brietta. This is, reportedly, to give supporters the chance to show that they have not forgotten Madeleine. Unfortunately as the usual suspects don't seem as mad keen on remembering Madeleine as the do compiling dossier and bad-mouthing anyone who isn't singing from the McCann-endorsed hymn sheet it unfortunately looks like it's going to be a bit of a damp squib.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 25, 2015, 03:35:59 PM
Nothing like that Brietta. This is, reportedly, to give supporters the chance to show that they have not forgotten Madeleine. Unfortunately as the usual suspects don't seem as mad keen on remembering Madeleine as the do compiling dossier and bad-mouthing anyone who isn't singing from the McCann-endorsed hymn sheet it unfortunately looks like it's going to be a bit of a damp squib.
perhaps some of us are not obsessed as you think we are and are content to leave SY to do their job.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 25, 2015, 03:52:26 PM
Agreed, but the report is about children. Unfortunately the DM give no link to this report so one can only guess at what is included in the figures quoted.
For those who want to wade through it, the report can be found here - http://www.childabduction.org.uk/images/PACT_Child_Abduction_report_2015_final.pdf but there are no details about what was included, nor any indication of prosecutions or outcomes.
Thanks Jassi. I'll have a go at wading through it.
The last time I tried to read through the few abduction / kidnapping reports available, I gave up.
Different studies used different criteria (including definitions); murdered children didn't necessarily appear as having been kidnapped / abducted as they were listed in the murdered or raped category; databases didn't seem to be compatible with others...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 27, 2015, 09:20:28 PM
Excuse the following off topic post.
Just heard about the death of Leonard Nimoy, who of course is well known for playing Spock.
A true icon who has met his final frontier.
Best wishes to his family and friends.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on February 27, 2015, 09:37:21 PM
US actor Leonard Nimoy, who played Mr Spock in the cult sci-fi series Star Trek, has died at the age of 83 in Los Angeles, his family has said. His son, Adam, said he died of end-stage chronic obstructive pulmonary disease on Friday morning. Nimoy had a long career as both an actor and director. However he was best known for his portrayal of the half-human, half-Vulcan character in both the TV franchise and series of films. Last year, the actor revealed he was suffering chronic lung disease COPD, despite stopping smoking 30 years ago. It was reported earlier this week he had been taken to hospital on 19 February after suffering from chest pains. He later tweeted: "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory." He signed off what was to be his final tweet with "LLAP" - a reference to his character's famous catchphrase, "Live long and prosper".
The same Twitter account was used by his granddaughter to confirm that he died at home on Friday in Bel-Air, California. Dani Nimoy said her grandfather was an "extraordinary man, husband, grandfather, brother, actor, author - the list goes on - and friend." She added that special merchandise was being added to Nimoy's website, with all proceeds going to the COPD foundation. George Takei, who played Hikaru Sulu on Star Trek and was a friend of Nimoy's, paid tribute to the actor. "The word extraordinary is often overused but I think it's really appropriate for Leonard", Mr Takei told US broadcaster MSNBC. "He was an extraordinarily talented man but he was also a very decent human being." Among the torrent of tributes on Twitter was a message from Nasa crediting Nimoy and Star Trek as an inspiration. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31662024
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: colombosstogey on February 28, 2015, 06:27:52 AM
See the dogs are back again, linked to the McCann case for this Bristol girl gone missing.....clever of the The Mirror to use her name to sell more papers....jeez give me a break.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2015, 08:04:59 AM
Thanks, Anna. I could almost say My Hero. I watched in real time, every one of the first Star Trek Series, which was a whole new concept at the time. I am in fact A Trekky to this day. I still think that The Whale Film was the best ever. And of course the whole thing carried a moral message, so he and the rest of them gave something good to the world of entertainment. He will be missed, not least by me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 28, 2015, 08:09:26 AM
Thanks, Anna. I could almost say My Hero. I watched in real time, every one of the first Star Trek Series, which was a whole new concept at the time. I am in fact A Trekky to this day. I still think that The Whale Film was the best ever. And of course the whole thing carried a moral message, so he and the rest of them gave something good to the world of entertainment. He will be missed, not least by me.
Yes, thanks to Anna for that.
I totally echo your sentiments Eleanor.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 28, 2015, 08:42:59 AM
I see this morning one "sceptic" darling George Galloway is planning to sue a whole bunch of tweeters for libel to the tune of £5k each for their accusations of anti-semitism...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 28, 2015, 08:53:02 AM
I see this morning one "sceptic" darling George Galloway is planning to sue a whole bunch of tweeters for libel to the tune of £5k each for their accusations of anti-semitism...
So Alfred, do you think Galloway is 'anti-semitic' ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 28, 2015, 08:56:31 AM
I see this morning one "sceptic" darling George Galloway is planning to sue a whole bunch of tweeters for libel to the tune of £5k each for their accusations of anti-semitism...
... Tweeters Beware! Gorgeous is very litigious ... and very successful when he does sue ... so this could be interesting for us and expensive for them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2015, 08:58:00 AM
Thanks, Stephen. Apparently he was a really nice man in real life, and he stayed married to the same woman for years and years. That is a miracle in itself. I hope he is still out there somewhere, looking after the Whales.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 28, 2015, 09:02:06 AM
Thanks, Stephen. Apparently he was a really nice man in real life, and he stayed married to the same woman for years and years. That is a miracle in itself. I hope he is still out there somewhere, looking after the Whales.
I met him once very briefly at a book signing at Brent Cross.
He was very charming.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 28, 2015, 09:20:47 AM
What do posters think of the unmasking of Jihadi John
Like the curates egg? Cue excuses about how he was marginalised by British society innit. His immediate family will no doubt now require police protection. I hope they unmasked the right bloke. Just random thoughts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 28, 2015, 10:52:54 AM
Like the curates egg? Cue excuses about how he was marginalised by British society innit. His immediate family will no doubt now require police protection. I hope they unmasked the right bloke. Just random thoughts.
I certainly hope it's the right bloke...is anyone claiming it isn't him
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 28, 2015, 10:54:15 AM
Like the curates egg? Cue excuses about how he was marginalised by British society innit. His immediate family will no doubt now require police protection. I hope they unmasked the right bloke. Just random thoughts.
I think 'they've' probably had a very good idea of exactly who he is for some time now ... I seem to remember we might have been helping these guys when we thought they were our 'friends' and were being downtrodden by nasty dictators.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 28, 2015, 02:10:10 PM
As long as he's funding it himself I don't think it's anyone else's business.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 28, 2015, 02:12:55 PM
We are seeing the western hostages for the shock! horror! values represented in them ... we are not seeing the many hundreds of indigenous populations being similarly dispatched in the lands controlled by these, in many cases, expensively educated courtesy of the British tax payers persons.
But no problems as long as they pay their own fares apparently. I just hope they didn't invest in a return ticket as they will probably expect to continue doing what they do without let or hindrance wherever they may be.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 28, 2015, 02:31:13 PM
I am glad to see George doing this...I don't think he is a sceptic and have always admired him. I don't think he's anti semitic either and to a certain extent has been proved right about the middle east. By removing these dictators...who were actually keeping the peace... a far worse force has been released
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 28, 2015, 04:01:39 PM
I think 'they've' probably had a very good idea of exactly who he is for some time now ... I seem to remember we might have been helping these guys when we thought they were our 'friends' and were being downtrodden by nasty dictators.
You are not wide of the mark unfortunately. William "the 15 pint a day Dreyman" Hague thought we should help them. Then we joined the Americans in the simplistic "mine enemy's enemy is my friend" foreign policy strategy. However for those old enough remember the 1960s/1970s middle east stuff which was equally as bad in some respects as now the Israelis carried out an effective (ish) plan. You can always find a nutter but the money is another thing, so knock off the financial backers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 28, 2015, 04:45:50 PM
You are not wide of the mark unfortunately. William "the 15 pint a day Dreyman" Hague thought we should help them. Then we joined the Americans in the simplistic "mine enemy's enemy is my friend" foreign policy strategy. However for those old enough remember the 1960s/1970s middle east stuff which was equally as bad in some respects as now the Israelis carried out an effective (ish) plan. You can always find a nutter but the money is another thing, so knock off the financial backers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 28, 2015, 06:22:08 PM
I hope GG is successful and it gives the necessary impetus for others to sue tweeters for their offensive libellous tweets. If each time you tweeted that the McCanns were liars and murderers it cost you £5k you might think again before writing such offensive nonsense.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 28, 2015, 06:24:10 PM
I hope GG is successful and it gives the necessary impetus for others to sue tweeters for their offensive libellous tweets. If each time you tweeted that the McCanns were liars and murderers it cost you £5k you might think again before writing such offensive nonsense.
If you've not got a pot to piss in, then what?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on February 28, 2015, 06:27:58 PM
If you are old enough to remember Hopalong Cassidy films you will recall that the "Blackhat" who becomes an "Honorary Whitehat" always but always winds up jed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 28, 2015, 11:10:41 PM
I hope GG is successful and it gives the necessary impetus for others to sue tweeters for their offensive libellous tweets. If each time you tweeted that the McCanns were liars and murderers it cost you £5k you might think again before writing such offensive nonsense.
It says that people with money will always be able to silence people without.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 12:04:07 AM
Of course not but on the other hand people with money should not be allowed to use that money to silence people with less.
so your view is that people should not be allowed to libel people with more money than themselves but that people should not be allowed to pursue libel actions against those with less money than themselves? That makes sense - not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 01, 2015, 10:55:10 AM
so your view is that people should not be allowed to libel people with more money than themselves but that people should not be allowed to pursue libel actions against those with less money than themselves? That makes sense - not.
What I'm saying is that in a fairer world it would be a much more even playing field.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 11:00:32 AM
I'm talking about the world we currently live in, not some fairyland Utopia.
Then if we are talking about reality your original question becomes somewhat redundant. Poor people do not libel those who are richer with impunity. Whether that is right or not is academic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 01, 2015, 11:27:48 AM
Perhaps people just shouldn't libel other people. Libel isn't difficult to define.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 11:54:05 AM
Then if we are talking about reality your original question becomes somewhat redundant. Poor people do not libel those who are richer with impunity. Whether that is right or not is academic.
You are joking aren't you? Are you telling me that all the "sceptics" on twitter are either a) richer than those they are libelling every day, or b) being punished for doing so?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 01, 2015, 12:12:03 PM
Then if we are talking about reality your original question becomes somewhat redundant. Poor people do not libel those who are richer with impunity. Whether that is right or not is academic.
Wealth brings privilege in education, healthcare, housing and access to law...this is nothing new
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 01, 2015, 12:13:53 PM
You are joking aren't you? Are you telling me that all the "sceptics" on twitter are either a) richer than those they are libelling every day, or b) being punished for doing so?
I'm really not sure why you are labouring this point Alfie.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 12:21:01 PM
I'm really not sure why you are labouring this point Alfie.
What point do you believe I'm labouring Faithlilly? I asked Slarti a simple question "Should people be allowed to libel with impunity those who have more money than themselves?" It seems you do and you don't. That's fine. We can leave it there, and I look forward to hearing from Slarti, to whom my original question was addressed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 01, 2015, 01:04:58 PM
I can't count how many times I've read highly defamatory accusations against the McCanns (and indeed against unrelated other people), often ending with the taunt "Come sue me, I don't have any money anyway". Some manage to stay just below the radar of what may constitute a criminal offence, and they know damned well that civil action is expensive.
Some of the worst remind me of sadistic little creeps poking sticks into injured or caged animals and then jumping back in glee when the victims can't defend themselves.
I doubt that anyone would relish a system in which poorer people don't dare exercise their right to freedom of expression within legal boundaries. On the other hand, their economic situation can't continue to be an excuse for behaviour beyond those boundaries.
What's the solution?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 01, 2015, 01:13:30 PM
I can't count how many times I've read highly defamatory accusations against the McCanns (and indeed against unrelated other people), often ending with the taunt "Come sue me, I don't have any money anyway". Some manage to stay just below the radar of what may constitute a criminal offence, and they know damned well that civil action is expensive.
Some of the worst remind me of sadistic little creeps poking sticks into injured or caged animals and then jumping back in glee when the victims can't defend themselves.
I doubt that anyone would relish a system in which poorer people don't dare exercise their right to freedom of expression within legal boundaries. On the other hand, their economic situation can't continue to be an excuse for behaviour beyond those boundaries.
What's the solution?
Kate & Gerry telling the truth.
That'd sort it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 01:14:37 PM
I can't count how many times I've read highly defamatory accusations against the McCanns (and indeed against unrelated other people), often ending with the taunt "Come sue me, I don't have any money anyway". Some manage to stay just below the radar of what may constitute a criminal offence, and they know damned well that civil action is expensive.
Some of the worst remind me of sadistic little creeps poking sticks into injured or caged animals and then jumping back in glee when the victims can't defend themselves.
I doubt that anyone would relish a system in which poorer people don't dare exercise their right to freedom of expression within legal boundaries. On the other hand, their economic situation can't continue to be an excuse for behaviour beyond those boundaries.
What's the solution?
Penalise them according to their means. After all, if they can afford a computer / phone and access to the internet they can't literally be penniless.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 01, 2015, 01:16:00 PM
I can't count how many times I've read highly defamatory accusations against the McCanns (and indeed against unrelated other people), often ending with the taunt "Come sue me, I don't have any money anyway". Some manage to stay just below the radar of what may constitute a criminal offence, and they know damned well that civil action is expensive.
Some of the worst remind me of sadistic little creeps poking sticks into injured or caged animals and then jumping back in glee when the victims can't defend themselves.
I doubt that anyone would relish a system in which poorer people don't dare exercise their right to freedom of expression within legal boundaries. On the other hand, their economic situation can't continue to be an excuse for behaviour beyond those boundaries.
What's the solution?
More FOS, not less of it. In the US books would have been written about the case but here it's obviously very, very difficult.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 01, 2015, 01:16:50 PM
I wouldn't call those books. They're more like tributes.
That's your opinion, to which you are entitled.
If I were to write a book about how a prominent living celebrity or politician repeatedly abused me as a child and named him or her in my book would you approve of this in your quest for more freedom of speech? What if I did so and made the whole thing up - still ok?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 01, 2015, 01:48:04 PM
That's an extreme example and isn't really relevant to this discussion. Carana asked "What's the solution?", and in my view it is the questions asked by 'sceptics' being answered. They can only be answered if they're clearly asked, competently and publicly. But we all know no UK publisher would touch it, so your problem will continue.
My question wasn't specifically about the McCanns, but about the perceived rights to a) absolute freedom of expression and b) the assumed freedom to abuse those rights due to socioeconomic status and the cost of applying existing laws.
My point applies to both ends of the spectrum: a corporation could squash justified criticism on the part of a disgruntled service user, just as those who stick pins into any victim who appears on their social media radar feel invincible.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 01, 2015, 01:52:49 PM
My question wasn't specifically about the McCanns, but about the perceived rights to a) absolute freedom of expression and b) the assumed freedom to abuse those rights due to socioeconomic status and the cost of applying existing laws.
My point applies to both ends of the spectrum: a corporation could squash justified criticism on the part of a disgruntled service user, just as those who stick pins into any victim who appears on their social media radar feel invincible.
This is why Grayling wanted to increase the maximum sentence for 'trolling'. The Act is law now and I'm assuming he got his 2 years sentence in it, so I'd wait and see what happens if/when there are prosecutions.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 01, 2015, 01:58:10 PM
This is why Grayling wanted to increase the maximum sentence for 'trolling'. The Act is law now and I'm assuming he got his 2 years sentence in it, so I'd wait and see what happens if/when there are prosecutions.
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but there seems to be a grey area between illegal criminal and civil behaviour.
What about those who manage to surf just under the criminal threshold but who nonetheless would be actionable in civil law?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 01, 2015, 02:05:13 PM
That's an extreme example and isn't really relevant to this discussion. Carana asked "What's the solution?", and in my view it is the questions asked by 'sceptics' being answered. They can only be answered if they're clearly asked, competently and publicly. But we all know no UK publisher would touch it, so your problem will continue.
It is not an extreme example at all. As you know, various members of the McCann group are repeatedly accused of the most heinous crimes imaginable and if you think it is incumbent on THEM to make it clear that they are not guilty of, variously, paedophilia, drugging children, concealing dead bodies etc, then quite how do you propose they do that in such a way as to satisfy the "sceptic" community?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 01, 2015, 02:10:53 PM
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but there seems to be a grey area between illegal criminal and civil behaviour.
What about those who manage to surf just under the criminal threshold but who nonetheless would be actionable in civil law?
I think there's too many of them, and it wouldn't be practical to take action against all of them.
But I wouldn't be surprised to see prosecutions testing that 'grey area' in the 'malicious communications' legislation. Parliament and the courts/police (and the lobbyists) see the same problem you do, and some folk will be made examples of I think to deter the others (perhaps involving those discussing this case).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 01, 2015, 02:18:31 PM
It is not an extreme example at all. As you know, various members of the McCann group are repeatedly accused of the most heinous crimes imaginable and if you think it is incumbent on THEM to make it clear that they are not guilty of, variously, paedophilia, drugging children, concealing dead bodies etc, then quite how do you propose they do that in such a way as to satisfy the "sceptic" community?
We all know there are extremists, but few with any sense take the extremists seriously anyway (they may as well all be on Icke's forum).
But it's not the extremists who are their problem: it's those who were not convinced of the story in 2007 and who haven't been convinced by either of the two books written since. This is a far larger group.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 01, 2015, 02:22:27 PM
We all know there are extremists, but few with any sense take the extremists seriously anyway (they may as well all be on Icke's forum).
But it's not the extremists who are their problem: it's those who were not convinced of the story in 2007 and who haven't been convinced by either of the two books written since. This is a far larger group.
you are dreaming. The McCanns problem is that their daughter is missing....they will not care if a very small proportion of the population don't believe them...they would be concerned at nutters turning up on their doorstep and preaching hate on the net
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 01, 2015, 03:03:46 PM
US actor Leonard Nimoy, who played Mr Spock in the cult sci-fi series Star Trek, has died at the age of 83 in Los Angeles, his family has said. His son, Adam, said he died of end-stage chronic obstructive pulmonary disease on Friday morning. Nimoy had a long career as both an actor and director. However he was best known for his portrayal of the half-human, half-Vulcan character in both the TV franchise and series of films. Last year, the actor revealed he was suffering chronic lung disease COPD, despite stopping smoking 30 years ago. It was reported earlier this week he had been taken to hospital on 19 February after suffering from chest pains. He later tweeted: "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory." He signed off what was to be his final tweet with "LLAP" - a reference to his character's famous catchphrase, "Live long and prosper".
The same Twitter account was used by his granddaughter to confirm that he died at home on Friday in Bel-Air, California. Dani Nimoy said her grandfather was an "extraordinary man, husband, grandfather, brother, actor, author - the list goes on - and friend." She added that special merchandise was being added to Nimoy's website, with all proceeds going to the COPD foundation. George Takei, who played Hikaru Sulu on Star Trek and was a friend of Nimoy's, paid tribute to the actor. "The word extraordinary is often overused but I think it's really appropriate for Leonard", Mr Takei told US broadcaster MSNBC. "He was an extraordinarily talented man but he was also a very decent human being." Among the torrent of tributes on Twitter was a message from Nasa crediting Nimoy and Star Trek as an inspiration. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31662024
RIP Leonard Nimoy. He even got Columbo angry in a good episode "A Stitch in Crime".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 01, 2015, 03:08:29 PM
Last Thursday was the date limit for the lawyers to hand in their written allegations and now it depends on the judge.
Thank you Montclair.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 03, 2015, 02:22:17 PM
03.03.2015 Paulo Pereira Cristóvão preso por roubos à mão armada
Atuou com a cumplicidade de três agentes da PSP, detidos no Verão passado.
Paulo Pereira Cristovao arrested for armed robbery
Acted with the complicity of three agents of the PSP, held last summer.
Paulo Pereira Cristovao, former vice president of Sporting, was arrested this morning by the National Counterterrorism Unit of the Judicial Police for armed robbery in Greater Lisbon, kidnapping and criminal association, found the Morning Post.
The old Leo leader, who was also inspector of the PJ, is suspected of being the mastermind of violent robberies in family homes, committed by three agents of the PSP and other civilian accomplices, been arrested since the beginning of summer.
The scheme went through simulation of police operations, with the display of false warrants for house searches, which ended with the kidnapping and robbery victims - some of whom were assaulted before they run out of money and goods kept at home, including gold. The agents arrived to attack uniformed.
As for Christopher Pereira, who have marked some of the targets to assault, where he knew the accomplices find value goods, is now indicted by the same violent crimes, co-authored. For months, the former vice Sporting is under investigation by the PJ in conjunction with the Central Bureau of Investigation and Penal Action. Should be present tomorrow the judge Carlos Alexandre, in Lisbon.
Paulo Pereira Cristovão, Former PJ inspector, former president of the Portuguese Missing Children Association [APCD] and author of influential books on missing children ... one of whom is Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 03, 2015, 04:59:26 PM
Cue (quite rightly) innocent until proved guilty.
What is it with people connected to the case? The sceptics could be forgiven for asking why, when they are so convinced of the McCanns guilt in all things, its others who seem to be arrested.....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 03, 2015, 05:02:35 PM
What is it with people connected to the case? The sceptics could be forgiven for asking why, when they are so convinced of the McCanns guilt in all things, its others who seem to be arrested.....
Perhaps it's to lull them into a false sense of security, you know like when Redwood announced that they are not suspects...? &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 03, 2015, 05:09:59 PM
I think perhaps after nearly eight years they may be said to be lulled.
Ya think? I think it might take a couple more cunning ruses before they are like totally lulled. Then it will be time to pounce!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2015, 11:47:29 AM
Certainly the recent arrest puts an entirely different aspect on the CW efits ... it has been a long time coming but this might end up being a very interesting space to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 04, 2015, 11:52:08 AM
Certainly the recent arrest puts an entirely different aspect on the CW efits ... it has been a long time coming but this might end up being a very interesting space to keep an eye on.
Can I request that John adds a 'clutching at straws' emoticon.? I fear we're going to need it in the future. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 04, 2015, 01:02:42 PM
What is it with people connected to the case? The sceptics could be forgiven for asking why, when they are so convinced of the McCanns guilt in all things, its others who seem to be arrested.....
Cristóvão had no connection with the Maddie case, the only thing he did was write a fictionalised account of the investigation. He wasnassociated with a lot of people who are now gobsmacked at his arrest. BTW, the head of the investigation into his criminal activities is Luís Neves, the same person who testified on Gonçalo Amaral's behalf in the libel/damages trial.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 04, 2015, 05:23:02 PM
Cristóvão had no connection with the Maddie case, the only thing he did was write a fictionalised account of the investigation. He wasnassociated with a lot of people who are now gobsmacked at his arrest. BTW, the head of the investigation into his criminal activities is Luís Neves, the same person who testified on Gonçalo Amaral's behalf in the libel/damages trial.
Have you ever read Uns Feios, Outros Porcos, Todos Maus by Cristaveo? I'd be interested to know more about the "fictional PJ Inspector" he wrote about.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2015, 05:36:23 PM
Cristóvão had no connection with the Maddie case, the only thing he did was write a fictionalised account of the investigation. He wasnassociated with a lot of people who are now gobsmacked at his arrest. BTW, the head of the investigation into his criminal activities is Luís Neves, the same person who testified on Gonçalo Amaral's behalf in the libel/damages trial.
I don't really think that the people who knew him best were at all "gobsmacked" by anything he did ... the precursor may have been his theft from the PJ and subsequent dismissal.
I think there is still a lot which may be giving his associates past and present pause for a lot of soul searching and thought.
Considering that he had no official role in the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance (although he did manage to hit the nail on the head re the progress of the investigation which would have been breaking Judicial secrecy laws if not 'fictional') the resonances of his authorship have been instrumental in fashioning many of the myths and attitudes adopted by people who maintain them eight years down the line and can be considered a propaganda coup.
We have all seen the allegations of racism, some of us have even had the accusation levied at us ... I think Mr Amaral's friend may have had a hand in forming opinion on that ... for example
** snip resuming that the investigation was a responsibility of the Portuguese police and the Public Ministery, which directed the process, and that the English policemen were in Portugal because they had been authorized by their Portuguese colleagues, then it is only fair to suggest that the "precious effort" should have been applied to the Portuguese. And "commitment" and "cooperation" are words that should have been used to refer to their British counterparts.
Gerry McCann's words illustrate what so many Portuguese, especially those who live and work in the South of the country, feel: that the Algarve has become a Little England, where the offices of GNR might as well replace the picture of the President that hangs on the wall of the Chief's office, with one of Queen Elizabeth II.
But the fact is that it is those "cooperating" and "committed" investigators from the PJ that are trying to solve this case. They do not obey the British Crown. It was not only the words, but rather other actions from the McCanns, who since the beginning were surrounded by media advisors, spokespeople, an ambassador and a prime minister who were available 24 hours per day and a favourable press, that offended the Portuguese.
A Estrela de Madeleine :: chapter 5
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2015, 05:47:16 PM
Have you ever read Uns Feios, Outros Porcos, Todos Maus by Cristaveo? I'd be interested to know more about the "fictional PJ Inspector" he wrote about.
Synopsis For the first time in Portugal, the novel that tells the life and crimes of the most corrupt police inspector.
Who is to say the PJ didn't develop a similar interest after reading it, Misty.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on March 04, 2015, 06:40:04 PM
Synopsis For the first time in Portugal, the novel that tells the life and crimes of the most corrupt police inspector.
Who is to say the PJ didn't develop a similar interest after reading it, Misty.
I've never read the book and did not know of it. BTW, the book was published in 2008 (looked it up on Google), 7 years before his arrest, so I don't think that it was important to the investigation.
Talking about connections, the McCanns' lawyer, Rogério Alves, was PPC's lawyer in a 2012 case involving SCP.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2015, 06:47:08 PM
I've never read the book and did not know of it. BTW, the book was published in 2008 (looked it up on Google), 7 years before his arrest, so I don't think that it was important to the investigation.
Talking about connections, the McCanns' lawyer, Rogério Alves, was PPC's lawyer in a 2012 case involving SCP.
To paraphrase the lawyer who defended him in the torture trial ... it's been a long time coming.
All that remains to be seen is who he will take down with him.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2015, 06:50:27 PM
The guy wrote a book about Joana's disappearance. Then he wrote about Madeleine's disappearance. Next he wrote a book about the criminal life of a fictional PJ Inspector. Then he wrote a book (in the first person) about a young boy abducted from his village & taken into a world of sex-trafficking & paedophilia (Levaram-me - translated as "They've taken me" as opposed to KM's "they've taken her") Finally he writes a book 444 Dias based on his short time at Sporting Lisbon.
Sense a pattern here?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on March 04, 2015, 07:19:18 PM
I wonder what kidnappings he's coughed up are? Him being one of the mastermind behind them.
According to police source, speaking on Tuesday, Lusa, the former PJ Inspector is alleged to have provided "useful information about the victims" to criminal association to which he belonged, being one of the "masterminds" of robberies and kidnappings perpetrated by the group.
Remember when he was stuck to Amarals side, like glue, every time he was in court, till he was caught trying to set up an innocent referee.
Montclair thinks folks are thick enough to believe his book was fictional, when he's obviously used the files for his information. If not where did he get all the names of the Tapas group and the dogs? Book released March 2008.
Seems he's another one that's been a crook for years before Madeliene's case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 04, 2015, 07:25:39 PM
I wonder what kidnappings he's coughed up are? Him being one of the mastermind behind them.
According to police source, speaking on Tuesday, Lusa, the former PJ Inspector is alleged to have provided "useful information about the victims" to criminal association to which he belonged, being one of the "masterminds" of robberies and kidnappings perpetrated by the group.
Remember when he was stuck to Amarals side, like glue, every time he was in court, till he was caught trying to set up an innocent referee.
Montclair thinks folks are thick enough to believe his book was fictional, when he's obviously used the files for his information. If not where did he get all the names of the Tapas group and the dogs? Book released March 2008.
Seems he's another one that's been a crook for years before Madeliene's case.
Is this is yet another desperate attempt to try and link people to Madeleine's disappearance.
How pathetic.
Desperate times indeed for the mccanns and their supporters. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2015, 08:33:56 PM
The guy wrote a book about Joana's disappearance. Then he wrote about Madeleine's disappearance. Next he wrote a book about the criminal life of a fictional PJ Inspector. Then he wrote a book (in the first person) about a young boy abducted from his village & taken into a world of sex-trafficking & paedophilia (Levaram-me - translated as "They've taken me" as opposed to KM's "they've taken her") Finally he writes a book 444 Dias based on his short time at Sporting Lisbon.
Sense a pattern here?
Maybe even chutzpah?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 04, 2015, 08:51:59 PM
The guy wrote a book about Joana's disappearance. Then he wrote about Madeleine's disappearance. Next he wrote a book about the criminal life of a fictional PJ Inspector. Then he wrote a book (in the first person) about a young boy abducted from his village & taken into a world of sex-trafficking & paedophilia (Levaram-me - translated as "They've taken me" as opposed to KM's "they've taken her") Finally he writes a book 444 Dias based on his short time at Sporting Lisbon.
Sense a pattern here?
Yes.
Desperation, desperation and just more desperation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 05, 2015, 06:28:26 AM
...............and there is no sign of anyone else in the frame for her disappearance.
Shows how little you know....We don't know who was the last person to see Maddie alive...and we don't know if she is dead....with so many facts wrong it's no wonder all your conclusions are wrong
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 05, 2015, 08:16:49 AM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 11:20:05 AM
Given the nature and the scale of the crimes allegedly organised by Paulo Pereira Cristovao one can see why cold cases such as Madeleine's have been on the back burner.
The time taken to gather the evidence for arrests and the deployment of the anti terrorist squad to effect them gives an indication of what the Portuguese authorities have been up against.
This man has taken a prominent role for himself in all aspects of Madeleine McCann's case ... he is documented as having an opinion on everything and is the source of many of the myths from 'swingers' to 'six dead bodies ... he has reinforced these by writing a book and has appeared many times in the media to discuss the case as an expert.
One has to wonder why this man, who seems to equate with most people's notion of a Mafia boss, has been involving himself so assiduously in Madeleine McCann's case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 05, 2015, 11:27:40 AM
You'll need more than that to build something out of this, Brietta. What involvement did the man have before September 2007 and the day the McCanns left Portugal? Any?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 05, 2015, 11:32:51 AM
Am I right in thinking you're now using one of the Crimewatch efits to link this man to the McCann case when only the other week you said the Irish family almost certainly didn't see Madeleine being taken anyway and therefore the efits are useless?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 11:35:21 AM
You'll need more than that to build something out of this, Brietta. What involvement did the man have before September 2007 and the day the McCanns left Portugal? Any?
I don't need to build anything at all about this man, Lyall, the Portuguese authorities seem to be managing to do that perfectly well on their own.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 11:37:53 AM
Am I right in thinking you're now using one of the Crimewatch efits to link this man to the McCann case when only the other week you said the Irish family almost certainly didn't see Madeleine being taken anyway and therefore the efits are useless?
You are such an expert on my posts, Lyall, you will perhaps recall that I am of the opinion that the CW efits have nothing to do with the Smith 'sighting'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 05, 2015, 11:42:06 AM
You are such an expert on my posts, Lyall, you will perhaps recall that I am of the opinion that the CW efits have nothing to do with the Smith 'sighting'.
So who created them then? Someone pointing the finger at Cristovão?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on March 05, 2015, 11:43:15 AM
I wonder what kidnappings he's coughed up are? Him being one of the mastermind behind them.
According to police source, speaking on Tuesday, Lusa, the former PJ Inspector is alleged to have provided "useful information about the victims" to criminal association to which he belonged, being one of the "masterminds" of robberies and kidnappings perpetrated by the group.
Remember when he was stuck to Amarals side, like glue, every time he was in court, till he was caught trying to set up an innocent referee.
Montclair thinks folks are thick enough to believe his book was fictional, when he's obviously used the files for his information. If not where did he get all the names of the Tapas group and the dogs? Book released March 2008.
Seems he's another one that's been a crook for years before Madeliene's case.
The charges included "false imprisonment" not kidnapping. PPC had a fictionalised detective in his book supposedly working on the case. I never read it and wasn't interested in doing so.
I think that people here should realise that not everything here in Portugal or in the world for that matter revolves around the McCanns.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on March 05, 2015, 11:47:51 AM
Given the nature and the scale of the crimes allegedly organised by Paulo Pereira Cristovao one can see why cold cases such as Madeleine's have been on the back burner.
The time taken to gather the evidence for arrests and the deployment of the anti terrorist squad to effect them gives an indication of what the Portuguese authorities have been up against.
This man has taken a prominent role for himself in all aspects of Madeleine McCann's case ... he is documented as having an opinion on everything and is the source of many of the myths from 'swingers' to 'six dead bodies ... he has reinforced these by writing a book and has appeared many times in the media to discuss the case as an expert.
One has to wonder why this man, who seems to equate with most people's notion of a Mafia boss, has been involving himself so assiduously in Madeleine McCann's case.
I think that the guy is a sociopath, a bit like Sócrates. I think that Madeleine's case was just a great opportunity to show off, nothing sinister there. He wasn't involved in the investigation but he liked to appear on television as someone important.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 11:51:03 AM
The charges included "false imprisonment" not kidnapping. PPC had a fictionalised detective in his book supposedly working on the case. I never read it and wasn't interested in doing so.
I think that people here should realise that not everything here in Portugal or in the world for that matter revolves around the McCanns.
Perhaps not everything in Portugal revolves around Madeleine McCann ... although this man certainly took the opportunity to capitalise on her disappearance.
Interesting that he chooses to write fictional accounts about factual cases for example
The star of Joana The star of Madeleine Rui Pedro?? a tale about a little boy stolen and abused A book about a corrupt PJ inspector
Perhaps he was at a loss for his next title ... corruption in football?? ... or lucrative home invasions?? ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 11:54:37 AM
I think that the guy is a sociopath, a bit like Sócrates. I think that Madeleine's case was just a great opportunity to show off, nothing sinister there. He wasn't involved in the investigation but he liked to appear on television as someone important.
You are attempting to defend the indefensible ...
I think at the moment charges have been laid concerning what the authorities have firm evidence to support. That is not to say there isn't more to come.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on March 05, 2015, 12:00:54 PM
If he had been a mate of the McCann's you would be leaping about with glee.
P.S. He is the image of Smithman.
The spitting image.
However I would be surprised if it is Paulo Pereira Cristovao as I don't think his MO involves getting his own hands dirty. Then again, I am of the opinion that the efit doesn't portray Smithman.
If not, I am sure the PJ and SY know the exact context.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 05, 2015, 12:30:24 PM
The charges included "false imprisonment" not kidnapping. PPC had a fictionalised detective in his book supposedly working on the case. I never read it and wasn't interested in doing so.
I think that people here should realise that not everything here in Portugal or in the world for that matter revolves around the McCanns.
Well said Montclair.
No matter what the mccanns and their supporters may like to think, the world doesn't revolve around the mccanns.
More pertinently, when people are fully equated with the FACTS of what the mccanns did, and failed to do, any sympathy goes out of the window.
It makes them realize how badly Madeleine and her siblings were let down by their 'loving' parents.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on March 05, 2015, 12:46:23 PM
I think at the moment charges have been laid concerning what the authorities have firm evidence to support. That is not to say there isn't more to come.
What am I defending here? I'm certainly not defending PPC.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 05, 2015, 12:49:06 PM
Cristaveo is not Smithman. Both the hair & stature are different.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 05, 2015, 01:12:29 PM
What am I defending here? I'm certainly not defending PPC.
Quite aside from the numerous charges against him (unrelated to the Madeleine case), he was the author of a book, wrapped as a novel, but in which he must have been privy to some leaks.
He was also a media pundit on the case, but so were numerous others. I'm not terribly fond of media pundits, but they aren't exclusive to Portugal.
I wonder how much they got paid for each TV appearance?
I have no problem with genuine experts, explaining, e.g., a point of law in an unbiased manner, but I do have an issue with the vast majority of so-called / self-styled "experts" appearing on TV shows who get paid to spout any old crap to fill airtime.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on March 05, 2015, 01:14:29 PM
Cristaveo is not Smithman. Both the hair & stature are different.
Now, I think there is a real likeness, the hair looks the same to me. Not saying he is Smithman though I think he looks much more like him than Gerry McCann.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on March 05, 2015, 01:24:20 PM
Now, I think there is a real likeness, the hair looks the same to me. Not saying he is Smithman though I think he looks much more like him than Gerry McCann.
Are we in the twilight zone?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 01:26:40 PM
What am I defending here? I'm certainly not defending PPC.
LOL ... to paraphrase a poster in another place ... who'd never been fooled because he's always had accusations about money and violent crime hovering about him ... but who likes him for the books on Joana and Madeleine and his comments about the crimes on TV.
Strange reasoning ... but now that the chickens started €800 ago are coming home to roost I think we can expect a few more convolutions.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 01:29:47 PM
No matter what the mccanns and their supporters may like to think, the world doesn't revolve around the mccanns.
More pertinently, when people are fully equated with the FACTS of what the mccanns did, and failed to do, any sympathy goes out of the window.
It makes them realize how badly Madeleine and her siblings were let down by their 'loving' parents.
You never miss an opportunity do you.
The thing is, you don't believe Madeleine was abducted, where as there are many who do, including two police forces.
The main priority is to find Madeleine, not dwell on what the McCann did or didn't do. I am concerned about there being a person out there who would enter an apartment and take a child. I am concerned about that child.
Trying to draw the attention away with the 'look at the bad McCann's' is my mind utterly shameful.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 05, 2015, 01:53:18 PM
The thing is, you don't believe Madeleine was abducted, where as there are many who do, including two police forces.
The main priority is to find Madeleine, not dwell on what the McCann did or didn't do. I am concerned about there being a person out there who would enter an apartment and take a child. I am concerned about that child.
Trying to draw the attention away with the 'look at the bad McCann's' is my mind utterly shameful.
Many ??
There are also many who think the mccanns made the whole thing up to protect themselves.
As to the police forces, they have found precisely NOTHING.
NOT ONE TRACE OF MADELEINE, NOT ONE TRACE OF ABDUCTOR OR ABDUCTION.
So keep to your dream world.
It's where you belong.
P.S. I find it shameful that there are people who excuse the mccanns actions and give the excuse that other people have done iy, and neglecting to say that the vast majority of people would never do such a thing to recklessly endanger their children.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 05, 2015, 01:56:35 PM
The thing is, you don't believe Madeleine was abducted, where as there are many who do, including two police forces.
The main priority is to find Madeleine, not dwell on what the McCann did or didn't do. I am concerned about there being a person out there who would enter an apartment and take a child. I am concerned about that child.
Trying to draw the attention away with the 'look at the bad McCann's' is my mind utterly shameful.
Well said Lace.
I find it intruging that some on here and elsewhere are determined to demonise the McCanns, who may have made mistakes but GM is doing a good job in the NHS, and helping to improve the lives of others.
Whilst defending and excusing others - including an ex cop who has writted a book about a case he failed to solve, lining his pockets in the process.
Another ex cop who has been found guilty of assaulting a prisoner.
And another ex cop who has been found guidty of corruption, and is now charged with other offences.
Perhaps there is a need for a bit of recalibration.
Whilst
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 05, 2015, 02:03:46 PM
There are also many who think the mccanns made the whole thing up to protect themselves.
As to the police forces, they have found precisely NOTHING.
NOT ONE TRACE OF MADELEINE, NOT ONE TRACE OF ABDUCTOR OR ABDUCTION.
So keep to your dream world.
It's where you belong.
P.S. I find it shameful that there are people who excuse the mccanns actions and give the excuse that other people have done iy, and neglecting to say that the vast majority of people would never do such a thing to recklessly endanger their children.
Have you ever watched Penn & Teller, Stephen? As for your PS - suggest you check out Free Range Parenting.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 02:09:04 PM
There are also many who think the mccanns made the whole thing up to protect themselves.
As to the police forces, they have found precisely NOTHING.
NOT ONE TRACE OF MADELEINE, NOT ONE TRACE OF ABDUCTOR OR ABDUCTION.
So keep to your dream world.
It's where you belong.
What an unusual post, not at all like you Stephen, rather shows you are not terribly laid back about the recent revelations emanating from Portugal about one of your pal's best mates.
Let's see ... who penned the "staged abduction theory" ...
was it ... Paulo Pereira Cristovao?
was it ... Vitor Tavares de Almeid?
was it ... Goncalo Amaral? Or could it have been all three??
Wonder why anyone would have any reason whatsoever to place any reliance on a word emanating from any one of them?
However ... takes all sorts ... so do keep up the good work.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 05, 2015, 02:27:44 PM
What an unusual post, not at all like you Stephen, rather shows you are not terribly laid back about the recent revelations emanating from Portugal about one of your pal's best mates.
Let's see ... who penned the "staged abduction theory" ...
was it ... Paulo Pereira Cristovao?
was it ... Vitor Tavares de Almeid?
was it ... Goncalo Amaral? Or could it have been all three??
Wonder why anyone would have any reason whatsoever to place any reliance on a word emanating from any one of them?
However ... takes all sorts ... so do keep up the good work.
And they were so convinced of this they not only let their prime suspect have her husband in the room with her while being interviewed but then didn't interview her again for four months?
The evidence doesn't support you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 05, 2015, 02:38:53 PM
What an unusual post, not at all like you Stephen, rather shows you are not terribly laid back about the recent revelations emanating from Portugal about one of your pal's best mates.
Let's see ... who penned the "staged abduction theory" ...
was it ... Paulo Pereira Cristovao?
was it ... Vitor Tavares de Almeid?
was it ... Goncalo Amaral? Or could it have been all three??
Wonder why anyone would have any reason whatsoever to place any reliance on a word emanating from any one of them?
However ... takes all sorts ... so do keep up the good work.
Why should anyone believe the mccanns story ?
For if what I and others think is correct, then the mccanns have everything to hide.
...........and let's face reality, their choice of investigators, who literally and metaphorically didn't have a clue, leaves a lot to be desired.
However, you of course think the mccanns have nothing to answer for, DO YOU ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on March 05, 2015, 02:46:29 PM
And they were so convinced of this they not only let their prime suspect have her husband in the room with her while being interviewed but then didn't interview her again for four months?
The evidence doesn't support you.
We'll just brush that bit under the carpet, can't have it interfering with the 'they were being framed' propaganda.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 03:39:17 PM
And they were so convinced of this they not only let their prime suspect have her husband in the room with her while being interviewed but then didn't interview her again for four months?
The evidence doesn't support you.
Are you for real, Lyall?
I certainly can't be bothered giving you cites chapter and verse, I know you are painfully aware of them already ... quite obviously if I saw a blue and black dress you would see it as white and glod.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 05, 2015, 03:48:04 PM
I certainly can't be bothered giving you cites chapter and verse, I know you are painfully aware of them already ... quite obviously if I saw a blue and black dress you would see it as white and glod.
8)-))) It was white and gold.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 03:51:01 PM
For if what I and others think is correct, then the mccanns have everything to hide.
...........and let's face reality, their choice of investigators, who literally and metaphorically didn't have a clue, leaves a lot to be desired.
However, you of course think the mccanns have nothing to answer for, DO YOU ?
It really doesn't matter what I believe and it doesn't matter what you believe.
The Portuguese Justice system has been working away quietly in the background amassing evidence which will stick in possibly one of the biggest police corruption cases not only in the history of Portugal but perhaps in Europe.
The dangers involved are intimated by the use of an anti terrorist squad to arrest the ringleaders.
Any associates of these alleged criminals might have more on their minds at the moment than libel trials; but you know that of course, hence the angst.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 05, 2015, 04:22:37 PM
It really doesn't matter what I believe and it doesn't matter what you believe.
The Portuguese Justice system has been working away quietly in the background amassing evidence which will stick in possibly one of the biggest police corruption cases not only in the history of Portugal but perhaps in Europe.
The dangers involved are intimated by the use of an anti terrorist squad to arrest the ringleaders.
Any associates of these alleged criminals might have more on their minds at the moment than libel trials; but you know that of course, hence the angst.
If you think I am in the least worried you are sorely mistaken.
You are clutching at any possible straw to divert attention from your beloved McCann's.
Now matter what you can say about the nonsense abduction theory, there is not one jot of evidence for it.
As to your naive belief that only 3 members of the PJ didn't swallow the made up abduction, that's your problem, not mine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on March 05, 2015, 05:56:13 PM
If you think I am in the least worried you are sorely mistaken.
You are clutching at any possible straw to divert attention from your beloved McCann's.
Now matter what you can say about the nonsense abduction theory, there is not one jot of evidence for it.
As to your naive belief that only 3 members of the PJ didn't swallow the made up abduction,that's your problem, not mine.
I see you are now stating that the claim that Madeleine was abducted is a lie. If that is the 'fact' you appear to think it is - can you explain why two police forces are looking for a stranger and have both ruled out the McCanns as suspects. Why don't they think it's a lie in your opinion? Surely you must have a theory about that. Care to share it with us?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2015, 07:03:59 PM
I see you are now stating that the claim that Madeleine was abducted is a lie. If that is the 'fact' you appear to think it is - can you explain why two police forces are looking for a stranger and have both ruled out the McCanns as suspects. Why don't they think it's a lie in your opinion? Surely you must have a theory about that. Care to share it with us?
I know you have not quite caught up yet benice, but the nature of Madeleine's disappearance was and still remains unknown.
Until that point is reached, several possibilities remain on the table.
Tell me how you can rule people out of an inquiry, if the nature of the crime has yet to be determined ?
As to the mccanns and associates, the stories have changed as you well know.
Inconsistencies are there in abundance.
Merely because you turn a blind eye to them, such as gerry mccann's, is a reflection of your 1-dimensional support for that pair.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 05, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2015, 07:24:36 PM
Hi, I'm a newbie on here so I hope you don't mind me putting 'my tuppenyworth' in.
I don't know who the two police forces are, but I don't think the PJ were convinced of an abduction, and nor am I. The Crimewatch reconstruction video shows what happens to the bedclothes when a child snuggles down in bed (as Kate McCann describes in her book). At 8.07 on the video Madeleine's stand -in is snuggled; http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-crimewatch-appeal-watch-2372789
Then compare with the PJ photo of the bed later; http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_PHOTO_REPORT.htm
This did not go unnoticed by Jose Maria Batista Roque of the GNR either;
During the search he did not find anything strange apart from the bedclothes on Madeleine's bed, which were too tidy http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm
The PJ requested a reconstruction because the statements they had from the family and their friends left hardly any opportunity for an abduction;
The establishment of a timeline and of a line of effective checking on the minors that were left alone in the apartments, given that, if it is believed that such checking was as tight as the witnesses and the arguidos describe it, it would be, at least, very difficult to reunite conditions for the introduction of an abductor in the residence and the posterior exit of said abductor, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 07:27:18 PM
If you think I am in the least worried you are sorely mistaken.
You are clutching at any possible straw to divert attention from your beloved McCann's.
Now matter what you can say about the nonsense abduction theory, there is not one jot of evidence for it.
As to your naive belief that only 3 members of the PJ didn't swallow the made up abduction, that's your problem, not mine.
There is usually a reason behind an intensive propaganda campaign; whether it is to encourage children to have a care when crossing the road or to sell a particular brand of sausage.
They are effective or no one would spend time and effort on them.
As far as the three members of the PJ whose names you cannot bear to mention but I presume you refer to ...
Almeida Amaral Cristovao
... who could imagine the chequered careers followed by these three who all left the Policia Judicaria under a cloud ... and I doubt very much if that and subsequent revelations have endeared them to the honest hard working officers tainted by association.
I think you have failed to grasp the enormity and the implication of the present charges laid by the Portuguese authorities against what essentially is a gangster network involving guardians and former guardians of the peace.
I think there is a lot more to be revealed.
Cui bono from the propaganda campaign organised by these three against the parents of a missing child? The last person being considered is the child who they have worked very hard to consign to the pages of history.
There is always something motivating a propaganda campaign ... I'm surprised you seem to be getting a buzz from association when to date others have reaped the obvious benefits of a secure income from TV appearances and books on the subject; whatever else they may have to gain is a fair subject for speculation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 05, 2015, 07:30:55 PM
There is usually a reason behind an intensive propaganda campaign; whether it is to encourage children to have a care when crossing the road or to sell a particular brand of sausage.
They are effective or no one would spend time and effort on them.
As far as the three members of the PJ whose names you cannot bear to mention but I presume you refer to ...
Almeida Amaral Cristovao
... who could imagine the chequered careers followed by these three who all left the Policia Judicaria under a cloud ... and I doubt very much if that and subsequent revelations have endeared them to the honest hard working officers tainted by association.
I think you have failed to grasp the enormity and the implication of the present charges laid by the Portuguese authorities against what essentially is a gangster network involving guardians and former guardians of the peace.
I think there is a lot more to be revealed.
Cui bono from the propaganda campaign organised by these three against the parents of a missing child? The last person being considered is the child who they have worked very hard to consign to the pages of history.
There is always something motivating a propaganda campaign ... I'm surprised you seem to be getting a buzz from association when to date others have reaped the obvious benefits of a secure income from TV appearances and books on the subject; whatever else they may have to gain is a fair subject for speculation.
Your attempt at diverting attention from the made up abduction,isn't going to work on me.
As to making money, the mccanns have made plenty, which of course is now stagnating, apart from the on-going and ever increasing legal fees.
As a salutatory note, read Blacksmith's latest.
You need a touch of realty into what the mccanns and their PR machine has done. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2015, 07:33:36 PM
Hi, I'm a newbie on here so I hope you don't mind me putting 'my tuppenyworth' in.
I don't know who the two police forces are, but I don't think the PJ were convinced of an abduction, and nor am I. The Crimewatch reconstruction video shows what happens to the bedclothes when a child snuggles down in bed (as Kate McCann describes in her book). At 8.07 on the video Madeleine's stand -in is snuggled; http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-crimewatch-appeal-watch-2372789
Then compare with the PJ photo of the bed later; http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_PHOTO_REPORT.htm
This did not go unnoticed by Jose Maria Batista Roque of the GNR either;
During the search he did not find anything strange apart from the bedclothes on Madeleine's bed, which were too tidy http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOSE_ROQUE.htm
The PJ requested a reconstruction because the statements they had from the family and their friends left hardly any opportunity for an abduction;
The establishment of a timeline and of a line of effective checking on the minors that were left alone in the apartments, given that, if it is believed that such checking was as tight as the witnesses and the arguidos describe it, it would be, at least, very difficult to reunite conditions for the introduction of an abductor in the residence and the posterior exit of said abductor, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
An unexplained deposit of 120,000 euros was deposited in this officer's bank account in the days after Madeleine's disappearance ... I have never seen it properly explained ... have you?
Maddie: Military investigation Correio da Manhã
20 June 2009 - 00h33 Translation by Nigel Moore Thanks to Astro for addendum note
The DCIAP is investigating a cabo [police rank] from the GNR for several deposits made into two bank accounts for about 120 thousand euros. The military was the first to come to Praia da Luz where Maddie disappeared and the deposits in cash, began shortly after. He argues that the money is not his and that there is another person with the same name.
*
Note: This short online article mentions an officer with the rank of 'cabo', which means that it would be José Maria Batista Roque. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id256.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 07:47:03 PM
Your attempt at diverting attention from the made up abduction,isn't going to work on me.
As to making money, the mccanns have made plenty, which of course is now stagnating, apart from the on-going and ever increasing legal fees.
As a salutatory note, read Blacksmith's latest.
You need a touch of realty into what the mccanns and their PR machine has done. 8((()*/
My advice Stephen ... stop digging ... and realise that the Portuguese authorities are having to deal with corruption on an industrial scale involving a close associate of Mr Amaral.
These are the facts.
The speculation is that the person involved who assumed he was untouchable will be upset to discover that is not the case, and I do not think he will go down alone, particularly if the authorities are inclined to dig deeper; they may be so fed up with these people that they may make it their mission to do just that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 05, 2015, 07:49:49 PM
My advice Stephen ... stop digging ... and realise that the Portuguese authorities are having to deal with corruption on an industrial scale involving a close associate of Mr Amaral.
These are the facts.
The speculation is that the person involved who assumed he was untouchable will be upset to discover that is not the case, and I do not think he will go down alone, particularly if the authorities are inclined to dig deeper; they may be so fed up with these people that they may make it their mission to do just that.
The clear digging, is being done by you and others.
Now the question is why you are doing it ?
and what relevance does it have to Madeleine's disappearance ?
Are you saying these three men had an involvement,because if you are, you are on very dangerous ground yourself.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 08:29:31 PM
The clear digging, is being done by you and others.
Now the question is why you are doing it ?
and what relevance does it have to Madeleine's disappearance ?
Are you saying these three men had an involvement,because if you are, you are on very dangerous ground yourself.
You are misguided and you underestimate the scale of the corruption.
The Portuguese authorities are the people doing the digging; they are the guys doing the work and laying the charges which cover the broadest seam of criminality imaginable.
There is a determination in Portugal to deal with people who have been bringing the country into disrepute ... they have been cleaning up corruption for some years now ... a measure of the nature of exactly the types being dealt with was the necessity to involve the anti terror squad in the current arrests.
It is surprising that you are blind to what is becoming known, I am rather interested in where it all may lead.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2015, 08:33:51 PM
I can see now why the embassy staff were so quick to get down to PDL....They knew what was going on with the Portuguese and were afraid what the PJ may have done
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 05, 2015, 08:39:49 PM
You are such an expert on my posts, Lyall, you will perhaps recall that I am of the opinion that the CW efits have nothing to do with the Smith 'sighting'.
Not according to your much quoted newspaper of choice, the Daily Mail.
'The E-fits of a ‘new’ suspect for Madeleine McCann’s disappearance were drawn up five years ago – and suppressed. Images of a man seen carrying a child through Praia da Luz at 10pm on the night the then three-year-old vanished were unveiled on BBC1’s Crimewatch two weeks ago. They are based on evidence from Irish holidaymaker Martin Smith and his family. At the same time, the British police team behind a new investigation revealed they had discounted a 9.15pm sighting of a man with a child by Jane Tanner, a friend holidaying with parents Gerry and Kate McCann and their three children.'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 05, 2015, 08:39:56 PM
You are misguided and you underestimate the scale of the corruption.
The Portuguese authorities are the people doing the digging; they are the guys doing the work and laying the charges which cover the broadest seam of criminality imaginable.
There is a determination in Portugal to deal with people who have been bringing the country into disrepute ... they have been cleaning up corruption for some years now ... a measure of the nature of exactly the types being dealt with was the necessity to involve the anti terror squad in the current arrests.
It is surprising that you are blind to what is becoming known, I am rather interested in where it all may lead.
in case you haven't observed, or merely turned a blind eye, corruption takes place in all countries, and the UK is no exception to that.
As you will have no doubt observed today, the first ex-M.P. is now under open police investigation into the Westminster based paedophile scandal.
Mr. Harvey proctor is just the first to be named.
He won't be the last.
As to your obsession with Amaral and the other two, are you saying that they are connected to Madeleine's disappearance ?
A YES or NO will suffice.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 05, 2015, 08:42:12 PM
I can see now why the embassy staff were so quick to get down to PDL....They knew what was going on with the Portuguese and were afraid what the PJ may have done
Of course dave.
Then again, you believe the mccanns are not accountable for what happened to Madeleine.
How wrong you are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 05, 2015, 08:45:10 PM
'The E-fits of a ‘new’ suspect for Madeleine McCann’s disappearance were drawn up five years ago – and suppressed. Images of a man seen carrying a child through Praia da Luz at 10pm on the night the then three-year-old vanished were unveiled on BBC1’s Crimewatch two weeks ago. They are based on evidence from Irish holidaymaker Martin Smith and his family. At the same time, the British police team behind a new investigation revealed they had discounted a 9.15pm sighting of a man with a child by Jane Tanner, a friend holidaying with parents Gerry and Kate McCann and their three children.'
so because it's in the mail it must be true.... @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 05, 2015, 08:57:20 PM
I can see now why the embassy staff were so quick to get down to PDL....They knew what was going on with the Portuguese and were afraid what the PJ may have done
Explain then why the Embassy never sent anyone for a British subject before or after the case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 05, 2015, 08:59:22 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2015, 10:04:51 PM
Let's be quite clear about this ... the Mafioso type gangsters gaining entry to homes through the subterfuge of being on official police business ... were making a very good living for themselves.
**snip
The day of the robbery, the suspects stole checks and statements of debts totalling in excess two million euros.
They took also three car keys, including a Lamborghini and Aston Martin.
A gold wire of 16 thousand euros, a mobile phone "with 400 contacts of Brazilian companies" and money, the entrepreneur prefers not to quantify.
Let's be quite clear about this ... the Mafioso type gangsters gaining entry to homes through the subterfuge of being on official police business ... were making a very good living for themselves.
**snip
The day of the robbery, the suspects stole checks and statements of debts totalling in excess two million euros.
They took also three car keys, including a Lamborghini and Aston Martin.
A gold wire of 16 thousand euros, a mobile phone "with 400 contacts of Brazilian companies" and money, the entrepreneur prefers not to quantify.
No only one watch revealed the exact minute so somebody was paying close attention to the time on that night so the timeline is crucial as DCI Redwood said.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 05, 2015, 10:31:24 PM
No only one watch revealed the exact minute so somebody was paying close attention to the time on that night so the timeline is crucial as DCI Redwood said.
Whose watch was that, then?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 05, 2015, 10:37:31 PM
No mention of any watches being checked according to the statements in the files.
To know an exact time you look at your watch. They are in the files.
Clarence Mitchell backtracks on previous statement about watches
Mitchell said he was not surprised by the inconsistencies in the initial accounts. 'You had nine people in a bar without watches on, without mobile phones, and absolute panic set in when they realised what had happened.
The Guardian 06 April 2008
"It was made out to be the biggest 'conspiracy' since the Diana 'conspiracy,'" says Mitchell. "Some of the group (of friends in the tapas restaurant) had their watches on that night, and others didn't...
Yorkshire Post 29 May 2008
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 05, 2015, 11:14:56 PM
To know an exact time you look at your watch. They are in the files.
Clarence Mitchell backtracks on previous statement about watches
Mitchell said he was not surprised by the inconsistencies in the initial accounts. 'You had nine people in a bar without watches on, without mobile phones, and absolute panic set in when they realised what had happened.
The Guardian 06 April 2008
"It was made out to be the biggest 'conspiracy' since the Diana 'conspiracy,'" says Mitchell. "Some of the group (of friends in the tapas restaurant) had their watches on that night, and others didn't...
Yorkshire Post 29 May 2008
We were talking about the Smith family and their timings, not the Tapas group. Stop twisting.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 05, 2015, 11:20:36 PM
"They came on holiday for about 10 days, having returned to Ireland on 9 May 2007. (She is not absolutely certain of the day)."
She was correct!
"Questioned, she responds that she knows the time that they left (Kelly's Bar)."
I couldn't tell you what time my o/h got in from work today or yesterday, not even to the nearest 10 minutes. Why? Because it's irrelevant - just as the time the family left the bar that night was irrelevant to all of them. I'd bet none of them could have told you their flight times either 2 weeks later.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 05, 2015, 11:50:43 PM
They had stopped serving drinks in the Dolphin Restaurant??
Why did they want to stay in one place if they're on holiday? They had finished their meal so they moved next door to a bar for a drink. It's not unusual.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 06, 2015, 12:25:23 AM
It said around in both cases. How can it be around when it was exactly 9:04? Aoife said 10pm on her statement.
Maybe his watch didn't always keep good time, but the discussion is about Kelly's bar. Now she said around 22 hrs according to.................................?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 06, 2015, 12:30:42 AM
Maybe his watch didn't always keep good time, but the discussion is about Kelly's bar. Now she said around 22 hrs according to.................................?
She said they left at 10 which connects to a passing sighting time of 10:03 and the time somebody said Kate left the table at and was gone for 10 minutes. That's one strange watch like that strange moving door.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 06, 2015, 12:32:42 AM
They're not my times. They're Aoife's and Gerry's in their statements! Smithman efits weren't seen for 5 years.
You are changing the subject of the discussion, but what else can we expect.
In articles dated October 27 ("Madeleine clues hidden for 5 years" and "Investigators had E-Fits five years ago", News) we referred to efits which were included in a report prepared by private investigators for the McCanns and the Fund in 2008. We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities. This was not the case. We now understand and accept that the efits had been provided to the Portuguese and Leicestershire police by October 2009. We also understand that a copy of the final report including the efits was passed to the Metropolitan police in August 2011, shortly after it commenced its review. We apologise for the distress caused." http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sunday-times-sued-mccanns-over-story-which-wrongly-claimed-evidence-was-withheld-police
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 06, 2015, 12:41:53 AM
Where were the other 4 children in relation to Aoife when she saw Smithman?
I believe they were spread out and probably too small to see much. Aoife was nearest ... at the top of the stairs and must have got the best look at him. (http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/smith3.jpg)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 01:11:42 AM
Why did they want to stay in one place if they're on holiday? They had finished their meal so they moved next door to a bar for a drink. It's not unusual.
Accompanied by children and with a heavily pregnant woman who was feeling unwell and was anxious to get home ... they went on a pub crawl ?? seems log illogical to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 06, 2015, 01:15:57 AM
I believe they were spread out and probably too small to see much. Aoife was nearest ... at the top of the stairs and must have got the best look at him. (http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/smith3.jpg)
Do you not consider it very poor policework that there are no sighting positions marked other than those who made statements? If each member of the group was walking at roughly the same pace, Aoife would not have even reached the top of the steps when Smithman passed Peter.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 01:30:05 AM
Do you not consider it very poor policework that there are no sighting positions marked other than those who made statements? If each member of the group was walking at roughly the same pace, Aoife would not have even reached the top of the steps when Smithman passed Peter.
Odd that it was considered sufficient for three from a party of nine to participate in the 'reconstitution' ... when the insistence seems to be that all parties are required to attend to ensure accuracy.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 06, 2015, 02:01:52 AM
Odd that it was considered sufficient for three from a party of nine to participate in the 'reconstitution' ... when the insistence seems to be that all parties are required to attend to ensure accuracy.
Yes, very odd. Even stranger that it had to be carried out secretly. Wonder how well Peter S knew RM? All the emphasis was on Martin as head of the family. The PJ were adamant that they didn't want the children to attend the Tapas 9 reconstitution, though. I found that a bit off - the little ones would have been a year older & just may have remembered something crucial if placed back in the same holiday apartments
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 06, 2015, 07:43:17 AM
Accompanied by children and with a heavily pregnant woman who was feeling unwell and was anxious to get home ... they went on a pub crawl ?? seems log illogical to me.
One farewell drink after a meal is not a pub crawl @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 06, 2015, 07:47:10 AM
You are changing the subject of the discussion, but what else can we expect.
In articles dated October 27 ("Madeleine clues hidden for 5 years" and "Investigators had E-Fits five years ago", News) we referred to efits which were included in a report prepared by private investigators for the McCanns and the Fund in 2008. We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities. This was not the case. We now understand and accept that the efits had been provided to the Portuguese and Leicestershire police by October 2009. We also understand that a copy of the final report including the efits was passed to the Metropolitan police in August 2011, shortly after it commenced its review. We apologise for the distress caused." http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sunday-times-sued-mccanns-over-story-which-wrongly-claimed-evidence-was-withheld-police
The Smithman efits were hidden from the public for 5 years and not included the Leaving No Stone Unturned book or the McCanns reconstruction documentary - only lies about Smithman how the child was carried - same style as Tannerman, incorrect time of 9:50 so It couldn't possibly be someone lol. This is all child's play. These are facts!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 06, 2015, 08:41:09 AM
An unexplained deposit of 120,000 euros was deposited in this officer's bank account in the days after Madeleine's disappearance ... I have never seen it properly explained ... have you?
Maddie: Military investigation Correio da Manhã
20 June 2009 - 00h33 Translation by Nigel Moore Thanks to Astro for addendum note
The DCIAP is investigating a cabo [police rank] from the GNR for several deposits made into two bank accounts for about 120 thousand euros. The military was the first to come to Praia da Luz where Maddie disappeared and the deposits in cash, began shortly after. He argues that the money is not his and that there is another person with the same name.
*
Note: This short online article mentions an officer with the rank of 'cabo', which means that it would be José Maria Batista Roque. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id256.html
Are you saying he was paid to lie in his statement about the condition of Madeleine's bed? That's not really relevant because we have the photograph in the PJ Files to confirm what it was like.
Other problems with the abduction are; Gerald McCann's confusion in his first statement (made just 13 hours after his daughter went missing, so he should have remembered) about how he and Kate entered the apartment to check on the children (front door with key or unlocked patio door). http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm
Then there is the open window/shutter. There is no independent evidence that the window was open apart from Amy Tierney. She arrived at the apartment after Fiona Payne. Amy saw an open window, Fiona didn't, so someone is mistaken. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 09:25:20 AM
Are you saying he was paid to lie in his statement about the condition of Madeleine's bed? That's not really relevant because we have the photograph in the PJ Files to confirm what it was like.
Other problems with the abduction are; Gerald McCann's confusion in his first statement (made just 13 hours after his daughter went missing, so he should have remembered) about how he and Kate entered the apartment to check on the children (front door with key or unlocked patio door). http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm
Then there is the open window/shutter. There is no independent evidence that the window was open apart from Amy Tierney. She arrived at the apartment after Fiona Payne. Amy saw an open window, Fiona didn't, so someone is mistaken. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm
I'm saying nothing about what this man may or may not have said.
I am far more interested in why he had 120,000 euros deposited in two bank accounts.
I wonder who the PJ inspectors were who investigated the circumstances of such deposits.
I wonder at what the outcome of that investigation may have been.
I think it is entirely relevant to the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance that one of the first responders had that amount of money deposited surreptitiously in two bank accounts days later.
I am sure the present investigation and the PJ who are rooting out police corruption on a mega scale are as interested in the explanation as I am.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 06, 2015, 09:33:08 AM
I'm saying nothing about what this man may or may not have said.
I am far more interested in why he had 120,000 euros deposited in two bank accounts.
I wonder who the PJ inspectors were who investigated the circumstances of such deposits.
I wonder at what the outcome of that investigation may have been.
I think it is entirely relevant to the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance that one of the first responders had that amount of money deposited surreptitiously in two bank accounts days later.
I am sure the present investigation and the PJ who are rooting out police corruption on a mega scale are as interested in the explanation as I am.
Were I a betting person my purse would be laid on random occurrence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 09:38:33 AM
One farewell drink after a meal is not a pub crawl @)(++(*
They left a restaurant and walked fifty metres to a bar to order more drink despite having a woman with them who was feeling unwell and children who must have been tired and ready for their beds.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 09:41:12 AM
Were I a betting person my purse would be laid on random occurrence.
Why do such 'random occurrences' never happen to me or anyone else I know ... when was the last time someone randomly paid one hundred thousand into your bank account?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 06, 2015, 09:43:57 AM
The Smithman efits were hidden from the public for 5 years and not included the Leaving No Stone Unturned book or the McCanns reconstruction documentary - only lies about Smithman how the child was carried - same style as Tannerman, incorrect time of 9:50 so It couldn't possibly be someone lol. This is all child's play. These are facts!
The fact is that if Peter Smith hadn't had his dream about seeing this man the day following Robert Murat being made an arguido, which was a fortnight after the event, and prompted his family to remember seeing him too ... none of us would probably ever have heard about Smithman.
The man ... who certainly was not Mr Murat ... was walking briskly in the opposite direction and away from Casa Liliana.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 06, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
Let's face it, the whole of the PJ were involved............ @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Then there's Arthur Brain, Ivor Biggun, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all....... 8)--))
Worth pointing out to you that the headline in vogue at the moment is KIDNAPPING ... if you don't like it take issue with the Portuguese press who are reporting one of the charges as such perhaps because it fits the dictionary definition.
**snip
A statement issued by PJ police reveals that three men, aged between 37 and 49, among them Cristivão, 45, were detained by the National Anti-Terrorism Unit on charges which included the use of illegal firearms in a series armed robberies, with victims often being taken against their will. http://theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges-including-kidnapping/34181?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on March 06, 2015, 09:58:23 AM
They left a restaurant and walked fifty metres to a bar to order more drink despite having a woman with them who was feeling unwell and children who must have been tired and ready for their beds.
They probably shouldn't have taken the children out with them ... 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on March 06, 2015, 10:00:43 AM
They left a restaurant and walked fifty metres to a bar to order more drink despite having a woman with them who was feeling unwell and children who must have been tired and ready for their beds.
Strange how if you take your children out for a meal and stop on the way home for a drink, you are a boozer, yet if you leave your children in your apartment and go out for a meal with drink you are a responsible parent.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 06, 2015, 10:07:06 AM
Why do such 'random occurrences' never happen to me or anyone else I know ... when was the last time someone randomly paid one hundred thousand into your bank account?
Random. made, done, or happening without method.
You seem to be suggesting that having 120grand paid into his account is somehow connected to the girls disappearance. I am sure you don't really mean that after all that would smell like a conspiracy theory would it not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 06, 2015, 10:11:03 AM
Strange how if you take your children out for a meal and stop on the way home for a drink, you are a boozer, yet if you leave your children in your apartment and go out for a meal with drink you are a responsible parent.
It's called "The George Mparrbe Factor" @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 10:17:36 AM
Strange how if you take your children out for a meal and stop on the way home for a drink, you are a boozer, yet if you leave your children in your apartment and go out for a meal with drink you are a responsible parent.
Strange to leave a restaurant where they serve alcohol and immediately walk a couple of yards up the street to go into a bar where they also serve alcohol.
A heavily pregnant, unwell woman would probably consider that the pinnacle of her holiday ... wonder what she made of it all in her statement?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 10:18:25 AM
You seem to be suggesting that having 120grand paid into his account is somehow connected to the girls disappearance. I am sure you don't really mean that after all that would smell like a conspiracy theory would it not.
What do you think?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 06, 2015, 10:26:49 AM
Strange to leave a restaurant where they serve alcohol and immediately walk a couple of yards up the street to go into a bar where they also serve alcohol.
A heavily pregnant, unwell woman would probably consider that the pinnacle of her holiday ... wonder what she made of it all in her statement?
Tis very strange.
As to her statement, she didn't make one. Three of the Smiths went back to Luz to do so. There is no reason to believe that she did.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 06, 2015, 10:30:14 AM
Worth pointing out to you that the headline in vogue at the moment is KIDNAPPING ... if you don't like it take issue with the Portuguese press who are reporting one of the charges as such perhaps because it fits the dictionary definition.
**snip
A statement issued by PJ police reveals that three men, aged between 37 and 49, among them Cristivão, 45, were detained by the National Anti-Terrorism Unit on charges which included the use of illegal firearms in a series armed robberies, with victims often being taken against their will. http://theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges-including-kidnapping/34181?
Do you have proof this has anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance ?
Now if you accusing these men of involvement in her disappearance, the next time you go to Portugal , raise your 'concerns' there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 06, 2015, 10:46:36 AM
I'm saying nothing about what this man may or may not have said.
I am far more interested in why he had 120,000 euros deposited in two bank accounts.
I wonder who the PJ inspectors were who investigated the circumstances of such deposits.
I wonder at what the outcome of that investigation may have been.
I think it is entirely relevant to the circumstances of Madeleine's disappearance that one of the first responders had that amount of money deposited surreptitiously in two bank accounts days later.
I am sure the present investigation and the PJ who are rooting out police corruption on a mega scale are as interested in the explanation as I am.
Brietta; I posted because there seemed to be a discussion taking place about whether or not Madeleine McCann was abducted by strangers, as her parents insisted. My post set out my reasons why I find that suggestion questionable. I would be grateful if you could tell me; a) whether you support the abduction story and b) if so, the reasons for that? (with reference to my points if possible). Thanks ?{)(**
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 10:56:46 AM
As to her statement, she didn't make one. Three of the Smiths went back to Luz to do so. There is no reason to believe that she did.
Mary Smith's statement is not available either; I presume she made one as the Garda officer who contacted the PJ concerning Martin Smith's alteration to his statement noted that Mrs Smith did not wish to change hers.
As we know, the files are incomplete.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on March 06, 2015, 10:57:36 AM
Worth pointing out to you that the headline in vogue at the moment is KIDNAPPING ... if you don't like it take issue with the Portuguese press who are reporting one of the charges as such perhaps because it fits the dictionary definition.
**snip
A statement issued by PJ police reveals that three men, aged between 37 and 49, among them Cristivão, 45, were detained by the National Anti-Terrorism Unit on charges which included the use of illegal firearms in a series armed robberies, with victims often being taken against their will. http://theportugalnews.com/news/ex-pj-detective-and-madeleine-book-author-arrested-on-a-series-of-charges-including-kidnapping/34181?
The targets were rich business men. They certainly weren't going to go after two middle class tourists who probably only had pocket change in the apartment. You do remember Philomena saying that nothing of value was taken? These insinuations of yours are absurd.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 11:03:00 AM
Do you have proof this has anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance ?
Now if you accusing these men of involvement in her disappearance, the next time you go to Portugal , raise your 'concerns' there.
For the record ... as there seems to be some confusion about the wording of the charges in the ranks ...
Paulo Pereira Cristovão
Ex-PJ detective and Madeleine book author arrested on a series of charges, including kidnapping IN NEWS · 05-03-2015 14:50:00 · 0 COMMENTS
Former Polícia Judiciária (PJ) detective and ex-Sporting Vice President Paulo Pereira Cristovão was this week arrested on a number of criminal charges, which include kidnapping and robbery. He gained widespread prominence after authoring a book, Estrela da Madeleine (Madeleine’s Star) in which he analyses the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from her holiday apartment almost eight years ago.
The targets were rich business men. They certainly weren't going to go after two middle class tourists who probably only had pocket change in the apartment. You do remember Philomena saying that nothing of value was taken? These insinuations of yours are absurd.
Of course they are Montclair and I'm sure Brietta knows that too but she has an agenda to push. The interesting part will be just how far she will go to achieve it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 11:11:00 AM
The targets were rich business men. They certainly weren't going to go after two middle class tourists who probably only had pocket change in the apartment. You do remember Philomena saying that nothing of value was taken? These insinuations of yours are absurd.
To what insinuations do you refer, Montclair?
I can think of few greater breaches of trust than police officers gaining illegal entry to peoples' homes using warrants, armed and in uniform to rob and abuse them and put them in fear of their lives.
I reiterate ... the Portuguese authorities considered this corruption so serious and the persons involved so dangerous they deployed the anti terrorist squad to make arrests.
Everything has a price for those willing to pay for it ... even a stolen Lamborghini.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 11:17:00 AM
Brietta; I posted because there seemed to be a discussion taking place about whether or not Madeleine McCann was abducted by strangers, as her parents insisted. My post set out my reasons why I find that suggestion questionable. I would be grateful if you could tell me; a) whether you support the abduction story and b) if so, the reasons for that? (with reference to my points if possible). Thanks ?{)(**
With respect, G-Unit ... in my opinion the clue is that the PJ and SY are spending time and money looking for an abductor. To that end arguidos and persons of interest have recently been interviewed by the lead authority in Portugal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 06, 2015, 11:24:52 AM
Mary Smith's statement is not available either; I presume she made one as the Garda officer who contacted the PJ concerning Martin Smith's alteration to his statement noted that Mrs Smith did not wish to change hers.
As we know, the files are incomplete.
Agreed, the files are incomplete. As to sex offenders and the such like.
The only reference I can find referring to Mary Smith is Martin Smith. Martin does give another statement, and in that statement he states that Mary does not wish to add to her previous statement. It's just that apart from Martin, there is nothing about a first statement from Mary.
Did she fly to Portugal with the other 3 to give a first statement? She is not in the files - apart from Martin.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 11:54:45 AM
Agreed, the files are incomplete. As to sex offenders and the such like.
The only reference I can find referring to Mary Smith is Martin Smith. Martin does give another statement, and in that statement he states that Mary does not wish to add to her previous statement. It's just that apart from Martin, there is nothing about a first statement from Mary.
Did she fly to Portugal with the other 3 to give a first statement? She is not in the files - apart from Martin.
As far as I can ascertain the Smith family unit holidaying in Praia da Luz comprised Martin Smith Mary Smith their daughter Aoife aged 12 one grandchild aged 10 one grandchild aged 4 Peter Smith Sheila Smith one child aged 13 one child aged 6
Three members of the Smith family returned to Portugal 26th May to make statements and return to the Rue da Escola Primaria where they alleged they saw the man with a child.
They were Martin, Peter and Aoife Smith.
If any other member of the family had made a statement I presume this would have been to the Garda Síochána.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 06, 2015, 12:44:42 PM
With respect, G-Unit ... in my opinion the clue is that the PJ and SY are spending time and money looking for an abductor. To that end arguidos and persons of interest have recently been interviewed by the lead authority in Portugal.
Sorry, still no answer to the points I raised. You can believe anything you wish, but it doesn't address the problems I pointed out. I hope the PJ & SY will justify your belief in them by explaining, when they find this abductor who has eluded them for almost 8 years, how he managed to enter and leave the apartment in the time available, find the child he wanted to abduct and open a window and some noisy shutters without waking said child or the other two children in the room. Oh - he may have tidied the bed too! What a cool and collected abductor he was.
9.05-9.15pm Gerry McCann & Jeremy Wilkins around. 9.10-9.15pm Jane Tanner around. 9.30-9.35pm Russell O'Brien and Matthew Oldfield around (no open window noticed by Matthew so no abduction unless McCanns lied about the window) 9.40-9.50pm Jane Tanner relieves Russell O'Brien. 9.50-10.00pm Kate McCann checks children - Madeleine gone.
No-one with any sense would have gone near G5A with all those people coming and going IMO. Perhaps he had a cloak of invisibility? Perhaps the McCanns and their friends lied about their comings and goings - but why would they do that when it was so important to help the police to get the facts correct?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 06, 2015, 12:50:13 PM
Christopher open war in prison Some of the 12 accomplices of the robbers former head of Sporting handed him over to justice. Eloi Facade, PSP officer arrested, has been dubbed the "snitch" and attacked the punch in Evora.
Sorry, still no answer to the points I raised. You can believe anything you wish, but it doesn't address the problems I pointed out. I hope the PJ & SY will justify your belief in them by explaining, when they find this abductor who has eluded them for almost 8 years, how he managed to enter and leave the apartment in the time available, find the child he wanted to abduct and open a window and some noisy shutters without waking said child or the other two children in the room. Oh - he may have tidied the bed too! What a cool and collected abductor he was.
9.05-9.15pm Gerry McCann & Jeremy Wilkins around. 9.10-9.15pm Jane Tanner around. 9.30-9.35pm Russell O'Brien and Matthew Oldfield around (no open window noticed by Matthew so no abduction unless McCanns lied about the window) 9.40-9.50pm Jane Tanner relieves Russell O'Brien. 9.50-10.00pm Kate McCann checks children - Madeleine gone.
No-one with any sense would have gone near G5A with all those people coming and going IMO. Perhaps he had a cloak of invisibility? Perhaps the McCanns and their friends lied about their comings and goings - but why would they do that when it was so important to help the police to get the facts correct?
I think you will find all the points you have raised have been the subject of much discussion over the past few years.
Particularly those emanating from the pens of close associates of Goncalo Amaral ...
Paulo Pereira Cristovão
Vitor Tavares de Almeida...
and indeed from the pen of Goncalo Amaral himself.
The singular result arising from all those years of speculation and hot air is that Madeleine McCann remains missing.
Why anyone should take cognisance of propaganda and myth emanating from people who have been and are of interest to the criminal courts in Portugal is beyond me; then I've looked beyond the apparent necessity to implicate Madeleine's parents in the crime against her in preference of finding the perpetrator/s.
Which is exactly in line with what the current PJ and SY investigation hopes to acheive.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 06, 2015, 01:25:40 PM
I think you will find all the points you have raised have been the subject of much discussion over the past few years.
Particularly those emanating from the pens of close associates of Goncalo Amaral ...
Paulo Pereira Cristovão
Vitor Tavares de Almeida...
and indeed from the pen of Goncalo Amaral himself.
The singular result arising from all those years of speculation and hot air is that Madeleine McCann remains missing.
Why anyone should take cognisance of propaganda and myth emanating from people who have been and are of interest to the criminal courts in Portugal is beyond me; then I've looked beyond the apparent necessity to implicate Madeleine's parents in the crime against her in preference of finding the perpetrator/s.
Which is exactly in line with what the current PJ and SY investigation hopes to acheive.
Then you are quite happy to take the myths and hot air from the McCann's, with their changing stories. &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 01:28:54 PM
Almost as enigmatic as a police officer finding his bank account considerably enhanced in the middle of a very serious investigation. Might even come into the realms of a Cardinal sin.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 06, 2015, 01:30:26 PM
Christopher open war in prison Some of the 12 accomplices of the robbers former head of Sporting handed him over to justice. Eloi Facade, PSP officer arrested, has been dubbed the "snitch" and attacked the punch in Evora.
Then you are quite happy to take the myths and hot air from the McCann's, with their changing stories. &%+((£
Cites, please, Stephen.
It will be so refreshing when you back up your statements with something which can be independently corroborated.
Perhaps you should take a step back and consider if there had ever been any proof of wrong doing against the Drs McCann or their friends ... they would have been charged and imprisoned.
As it stands ... not one of them have a criminal conviction of any kind.
Wonder why it doesn't strike you as being a cause for concern that all the loudest voices raised against them have criminal convictions which imo are as a result of serious infringement of human rights of others.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 06, 2015, 02:08:41 PM
It will be so refreshing when you back up your statements with something which can be independently corroborated.
Perhaps you should take a step back and consider if there had ever been any proof of wrong doing against the Drs McCann or their friends ... they would have been charged and imprisoned.
As it stands ... not one of them have a criminal conviction of any kind.
Wonder why it doesn't strike you as being a cause for concern that all the loudest voices raised against them have criminal convictions which imo are as a result of serious infringement of human rights of others.
What do you require cites for ?
The inconsistencies in the mccanns accounts have been discussed on numerous occasions.
Why do you have this blind faith in the mccanns ?
I am intrigued.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 06, 2015, 02:14:16 PM
I think you will find all the points you have raised have been the subject of much discussion over the past few years.
Points which you are unable to refute, apparently? If they have been refuted kindly point me to the posts, if you don't mind, and I will apologise for wasting your time.
BTW they are not 'hot air' and they were not invented by anyone, they are all taken from the evidence collected during the initial investigation. I would very much like to see Madeleine McCann found, but unlike some I cannot ignore the inconsistencies in the abduction story - inconsistencies which arise from the statements which were read and signed as truthful by the McCanns and their friends.
Why are you asking Stephen to cite sources when you don't? I have sources, answer me with yours!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 02:19:10 PM
The inconsistencies in the mccanns accounts have been discussed on numerous occasions.
Why do you have this blind faith in the mccanns ?
I am intrigued.
No surprise at all there, Stephen, I doubt if even on one of the numerous occasions when you have been asked by different members you have been prepared to or are capable of backing up your statements.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 06, 2015, 02:21:38 PM
No surprise at all there, Stephen, I doubt if even on one of the numerous occasions when you have been asked by different members you have been prepared to or are capable of backing up your statements.
Right back at ya Brietta!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 02:22:57 PM
I think you will find all the points you have raised have been the subject of much discussion over the past few years.
Points which you are unable to refute, apparently? If they have been refuted kindly point me to the posts, if you don't mind, and I will apologise for wasting your time.
BTW they are not 'hot air' and they were not invented by anyone, they are all taken from the evidence collected during the initial investigation. I would very much like to see Madeleine McCann found, but unlike some I cannot ignore the inconsistencies in the abduction story - inconsistencies which arise from the statements which were read and signed as truthful by the McCanns and their friends.
Why are you asking Stephen to cite sources when you don't? I have sources, answer me with yours!
For which of my posts do you require a cite?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 02:24:15 PM
Asking someone to cite sources makes no sense when you don't do it either. Last time of asking - can you point me to any sources which;
a) confirm the open shutters and windows? b) explain how a child can 'snuggle' into a bed and leave no trace of being there? c) explain how an abductor could get in and out of G5A, open a noisy shutter without anyone hearing, (at least two families were sitting on their balconies nearby) and choose a child to take without waking any of the children in the room and do all that in the extremely limited time available?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 06, 2015, 03:00:02 PM
No surprise at all there, Stephen, I doubt if even on one of the numerous occasions when you have been asked by different members you have been prepared to or are capable of backing up your statements.
Are you living in the real world, or have you buried your head so deep in the sand you will never find your way out ?
The files are there to read as are the inconsistencies in the accounts of the mccanns and associates.
Now if you are not accepting they exist, I have to ask why you won't.
Do you have a vested interest in the case ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 03:18:24 PM
Asking someone to cite sources makes no sense when you don't do it either. Last time of asking - can you point me to any sources which;
a) confirm the open shutters and windows? b) explain how a child can 'snuggle' into a bed and leave no trace of being there? c) explain how an abductor could get in and out of G5A, open a noisy shutter without anyone hearing, (at least two families were sitting on their balconies nearby) and choose a child to take without waking any of the children in the room and do all that in the extremely limited time available?
You may be new to this forum G-Unit ... but I think you are long enough in the tooth to be aware that the only links I am required to post are those to statements I have made.
I am not about to repeat on demand the contents of threads on this forum which if you were really interested you would already have visited.
Your demands are tiresome particularly as they do not follow on from debate and are probably OT since there is nothing there about 'latest news'.
I wonder if they could be construed as deflection from the only news coming out of Portugal at the moment which happens to concern Goncalo Amaral's close associate Paulo Pereira Cristovao and his arrest for, among many other charges, armed robbery?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 03:26:39 PM
Are you living in the real world, or have you buried your head so deep in the sand you will never find your way out ?
The files are there to read as are the inconsistencies in the accounts of the mccanns and associates.
Now if you are not accepting they exist, I have to ask why you won't.
Do you have a vested interest in the case ?
These allegations are soooo old hat, Stephen.
Let me know when you have some intel on the latest news on Paulo Pereira Cristovao and his arrest ... the subject of a Mafia type corruption case including present and former PJ inspectors is interesting me greatly at the moment.
It only remains to be seen how much more Elói Fachada is prepared to impart to the investigation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 06, 2015, 03:35:48 PM
Let me know when you have some intel on the latest news on Paulo Pereira Cristovao and his arrest ... the subject of a Mafia type corruption case including present and former PJ inspectors is interesting me greatly at the moment.
It only remains to be seen how much more Elói Fachada is prepared to impart to the investigation.
Old hat brietta ?
Now that's just something the mccanns would say. 8)-)))
As to the reality, the mccanns and co., have changed their statements on numerous occasions.
So do keep up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 06, 2015, 03:37:36 PM
Let me know when you have some intel on the latest news on Paulo Pereira Cristovao and his arrest ... the subject of a Mafia type corruption case including present and former PJ inspectors is interesting me greatly at the moment.
It only remains to be seen how much more Elói Fachada is prepared to impart to the investigation.
No idea whether this is accurate or not, but:
Fachada has since been “attacked” in Évora while apparently exercising in the gym and called a “snitch”.
- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/bail-terms-expected-today-for-ex-pj-high-flyers-and-alleged-associates#sthash.Eb0bgfiB.dpuf
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 06, 2015, 04:18:51 PM
You may be new to this forum G-Unit ... but I think you are long enough in the tooth to be aware that the only links I am required to post are those to statements I have made.
I am not about to repeat on demand the contents of threads on this forum which if you were really interested you would already have visited.
Your demands are tiresome particularly as they do not follow on from debate and are probably OT since there is nothing there about 'latest news'.
I wonder if they could be construed as deflection from the only news coming out of Portugal at the moment which happens to concern Goncalo Amaral's close associate Paulo Pereira Cristovao and his arrest for, among many other charges, armed robbery?
Sorry Brietta! As I said, I was responding to a post by you in which you seemed to be accepting the abduction story without question. I couldn't resist pointing out that there are questions to be answered if SY & the PJ eventually find an abductor. I tried to read the posts on the abduction story, but there were very few sources there either from what I could see, just a lot of speculation as to why some abductor would want to open a window. I was off topic, but with no intention of deflecting attention from the story about Paulo Cristovao. I have to say, however, that apart from him writing a book about it and knowing Amaral, I cannot see what connection his arrest has with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I don't think she was taken during an armed raid by police, or am I missing something?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 06, 2015, 06:21:46 PM
Sorry Brietta! As I said, I was responding to a post by you in which you seemed to be accepting the abduction story without question. I couldn't resist pointing out that there are questions to be answered if SY & the PJ eventually find an abductor. I tried to read the posts on the abduction story, but there were very few sources there either from what I could see, just a lot of speculation as to why some abductor would want to open a window. I was off topic, but with no intention of deflecting attention from the story about Paulo Cristovao. I have to say, however, that apart from him writing a book about it and knowing Amaral, I cannot see what connection his arrest has with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I don't think she was taken during an armed raid by police, or am I missing something?
I would have said that writing a book about the disappearance of Madeleine was quite a connection.
Another of Amaral's mates in trouble with the law. And yet the McCanns, who are thoroughly demonised here and elsewhere, do not seem to have so much as a parking ticket. Just goes to show how well protected they are...... 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 06:22:25 PM
Sorry Brietta! As I said, I was responding to a post by you in which you seemed to be accepting the abduction story without question. I couldn't resist pointing out that there are questions to be answered if SY & the PJ eventually find an abductor. I tried to read the posts on the abduction story, but there were very few sources there either from what I could see, just a lot of speculation as to why some abductor would want to open a window. I was off topic, but with no intention of deflecting attention from the story about Paulo Cristovao. I have to say, however, that apart from him writing a book about it and knowing Amaral, I cannot see what connection his arrest has with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I don't think she was taken during an armed raid by police, or am I missing something?
What evidence do you have that Madeleine McCann was not taken during an armed raid?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 06:48:42 PM
Fachada has since been “attacked” in Évora while apparently exercising in the gym and called a “snitch”.
- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/bail-terms-expected-today-for-ex-pj-high-flyers-and-alleged-associates#sthash.Eb0bgfiB.dpuf
Thanks for that link, Carana. The google translation re. the attack on him was unintelligible.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 06, 2015, 07:24:01 PM
I wonder why no one noticed a bunch of heavies armed with silenced Ingrams lurking about the place. I mean they would have rather stood out like a crocogator in a bath wouldn't they. But as we have no evidence they didn't do it, they must have I suppose.
Any one wanna buy this aqueduct? Do you a good deal my life; only twice the normal price. http://www.visitwales.com/things-to-do/attractions/castles-heritage/world-heritage-sites/pontcysyllte-aqueduct
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 06, 2015, 07:24:47 PM
I would have said that writing a book about the disappearance of Madeleine was quite a connection.
Another of Amaral's mates in trouble with the law. And yet the McCanns, who are thoroughly demonised here and elsewhere, do not seem to have so much as a parking ticket. Just goes to show how well protected they are...... 8(0(*
Clearly protected by the establishment.
No doubt about it.
As to demonising, their own arrogance and 'exhibiting responsible parenting' has seen to that. 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on March 06, 2015, 07:31:19 PM
Paulo Pereira Cristovao, former inspector of the PJ and former vice president of Sporting
Conspiracy, aggravated robbery and kidnapping prompted the coaçãoo measure more severe for Paulo Pereira Cristovao, former inspector of the PJ, and the leader of the leonine cheerleader, Nuno Vieira "Mustafa" Carlos Alexandre judge took this decision three days after the arrest by the judicial police of the former deputy of the Leo club, "Mustafa" and the photographer Nuno Lobito. Paulo Pereira Cristovao and Nuno Vieira were subject to more serious measure of coercion, indicted by a qualified robbery, kidnapping three crimes and co-authored material conspiracy crime. Nuno Lobito, indicted for criminal association membership crime, was incurred a term of identity and residence, with periodic presentations at the police station. , Indicted association criminal organization. The third detainee, the photographer Nuno Lobito, close to both and author of a book on Juve Leo, was subject to periodic presentations.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 06, 2015, 08:17:05 PM
Paulo Pereira Cristovao, former inspector of the PJ and former vice president of Sporting
Conspiracy, aggravated robbery and kidnapping prompted the coaçãoo measure more severe for Paulo Pereira Cristovao, former inspector of the PJ, and the leader of the leonine cheerleader, Nuno Vieira "Mustafa" Carlos Alexandre judge took this decision three days after the arrest by the judicial police of the former deputy of the Leo club, "Mustafa" and the photographer Nuno Lobito. Paulo Pereira Cristovao and Nuno Vieira were subject to more serious measure of coercion, indicted by a qualified robbery, kidnapping three crimes and co-authored material conspiracy crime. Nuno Lobito, indicted for criminal association membership crime, was incurred a term of identity and residence, with periodic presentations at the police station. , Indicted association criminal organization. The third detainee, the photographer Nuno Lobito, close to both and author of a book on Juve Leo, was subject to periodic presentations.
Although there's absolutely nothing to tie this arrest to the Madeleine case desperate measures I suppose. I get the feeling that March isn't going to be a good month for Team McCann.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on March 06, 2015, 09:02:55 PM
I would have said that writing a book about the disappearance of Madeleine was quite a connection.
Another of Amaral's mates in trouble with the law. And yet the McCanns, who are thoroughly demonised here and elsewhere, do not seem to have so much as a parking ticket. Just goes to show how well protected they are...... 8(0(*
Cristóvão was not Amaral's mate! He was someone who liked the attention and grabbed an opportunity to show off by latching on to certain people.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 06, 2015, 09:03:54 PM
Although there's absolutely nothing to tie this arrest to the Madeleine case desperate measures I suppose. I get the feeling that March isn't going to be a good month for Team McCann.
it will be interesting to see how good your judgement is...I feel march will not be a good month for you and your ilk
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 06, 2015, 09:06:27 PM
Although there's absolutely nothing to tie this arrest to the Madeleine case desperate measures I suppose. I get the feeling that March isn't going to be a good month for Team McCann.
You know that for sure? Yeah I can see March not being a good month but Let's see if there's a pig squealing before you celebrate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on March 06, 2015, 09:15:18 PM
So he wasn't invited to Amaral's 50th birthday bash then?
Would that be the same birthday bash to which Amaral's pal the ex-mayor of Portimao - since charged with Fraud and Corruption also got an invite? (from memory- so apols if I'm wrong)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on March 06, 2015, 09:59:37 PM
Would that be the same birthday bash to which Amaral's pal the ex-mayor of Portimao - since charged with Fraud and Corruption also got an invite? (from memory- so apols if I'm wrong)
That's the one. The ex mayor Sofia worked for, before being fired.
Cristoavo was there to light the first rocket ?>)()<
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 06, 2015, 10:01:39 PM
Would that be the same birthday bash to which Amaral's pal the ex-mayor of Portimao - since charged with Fraud and Corruption also got an invite? (from memory- so apols if I'm wrong)
Seems to have been quite an occasion ...
**snip Our source at the scene told us :
«After dinner, just outside of the restaurant, there was a huge cake, dessert and champagne. The Mayor of Portimão, Manuel da Luz, and a few members of his staff joined the party. At 11.30, there was fireworks, "Happy Birthday" was sung and champagne bottles were popped.
**snip When Gonçalo Amaral and Paulo Pereira Cristóvão (co-accused acquitted in the case of Leonor Cipriano) approached the PSP agents in the middle of the street, Aragão Correia fled running.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic1666.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 06, 2015, 10:03:12 PM
Would that be the same birthday bash to which Amaral's pal the ex-mayor of Portimao - since charged with Fraud and Corruption also got an invite? (from memory- so apols if I'm wrong)
Manuel da Luz? I think it was his deputy - Luis Carito - who has been arrested on corruption charges.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on March 06, 2015, 10:13:26 PM
Manuel da Luz? I think it was his deputy - Luis Carito - who has been arrested on corruption charges.
Seems they were all at.
The ex-Mayor Manuel da Luz, Deputy Mayor Luis Carito and Councillor Jorge Campos already have been arrested and accused of financial crimes and if the government audit into Manuel da Luz's period of rule is anything like the independent one commissioned by Isilda Gomes, criminal charges will have a good prospect of sticking.
The ex-Mayor Manuel da Luz, Deputy Mayor Luis Carito and Councillor Jorge Campos already have been arrested and accused of financial crimes and if the government audit into Manuel da Luz's period of rule is anything like the independent one commissioned by Isilda Gomes, criminal charges will have a good prospect of sticking.
Manuel da Luz? I think it was his deputy - Luis Carito - who has been arrested on corruption charges.
The deputy is mentioned as being there.
Paulo Pereira Cristóvão and lawyer João Grade dined. The mayor of Portimão and his deputy attended the toast on the street. http://truthcannotbesilenced.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/marcos-aragao-correia-interrupted.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 06, 2015, 10:33:34 PM
Lots of people Amaral didn;t know at his 50th then.
Oh well.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 06, 2015, 10:56:07 PM
@)(++(* Nothing smells quite as distinctive as desperation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 06, 2015, 11:00:11 PM
@)(++(* Nothing smells quite as distinctive as desperation.
You are so right there, Faith.
The whiff of certain members here denying that their beloved Amaral had anything to do with a growing list of corrupt ex police, ex mayors, deputy ex mayors is quite overpowering.
?{)(**
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 06, 2015, 11:00:51 PM
The whiff of certain members here denying that their beloved Amaral had anything to do with a growing list of corrupt ex police, ex mayors, deputy ex mayors is quite overpowering.
?{)(**
No he didn't have anything to do with Cristoavo. Cristóvão was not Amaral's mate! This chap was just someone who liked the attention and grabbed an opportunity to show off by latching on to certain people.
The whiff of certain members here denying that their beloved Amaral had anything to do with a growing list of corrupt ex police, ex mayors, deputy ex mayors is quite overpowering.
?{)(**
You know what JP Amaral could gave intimately involved with half of the convicts in Portugal and it would make absolutely no difference to the outcome of either the damages trial or SY's investigation. This is an attempt to deflect pure and simple, and not even a good one at that.
When the McCanns lose their litigation or receive derisory compensation the only people who will be the least bit bother with which criminals Amaral has associated with will be the diehards on forums like this. The MSM will be too busy disseminating the juicy details ( for once free from the spectre of CR ) to care who the McCann's nemesis shared his birthday cake with and the general public will care even less.
So carry on spreading your propoganda if it brings you comfort.. Events are happening beyond your or your compadre's control and I get the feeling you are all going to have to get used to that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 06, 2015, 11:34:10 PM
You know what JP Amaral could gave intimately involved with half of the convicts in Portugal and it would make absolutely no difference to the outcome of either the damages trial or SY's investigation. This is an attempt to deflect pure and simple, and not even a good one at that.
When the McCanns lose their litigation or receive derisory compensation the only people who will be the least bit bother with which criminals Amaral has associated with will be the diehards on forums like this. The MSM will be too busy disseminating the juicy details ( for once free from the spectre of CR ) to care who the McCann's nemesis shared his birthday cake with and the general public will care even less.
So carry on spreading your propoganda if it brings you comfort.. Events are happening beyond your or your compadre's control and I get the feeling you are all going to have to get used to that.
I won't lose a wink of sleep whatever happens but you...you seem almost emotionally involved
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Jean-Pierre on March 06, 2015, 11:35:12 PM
You know what JP Amaral could gave intimately involved with half of the convicts in Portugal and it would make absolutely no difference to the outcome of either the damages trial or SY's investigation. This is an attempt to deflect pure and simple, and not even a good one at that.
When the McCanns lose their litigation or receive derisory compensation the only people who will be the least bit bother with which criminals Amaral has associated with will be the diehards on forums like this. The MSM will be too busy disseminating the juicy details ( for once free from the spectre of CR ) to care who the McCann's nemesis shared his birthday cake with and the general public will care even less.
So carry on spreading your propoganda if it brings you comfort.. Events are happening beyond your or your compadre's control and I get the feeling you are all going to have to get used to that.
Getting a bit touchy, Faith?
Have you heard the expression "a man is known by the company he keeps"?
Anyway, I would guess I have got rather less "skin in the game" than you have, judging by your recent loss of cool.
Stay well. ?{)(**
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 06, 2015, 11:46:43 PM
Have you heard the expression "a man is known by the company he keeps"?
Anyway, I would guess I have got rather less "skin in the game" than you have, judging by your recent loss of cool.
Stay well. ?{)(**
I have heard the expression JP but I'm not sure how it relates to this situation. Amaral could be the most corrupt, lowdown dirty dog who ever wore a police uniform as may his friends be but what has that got to do with the current situation ? It has no bearing at all on the damages trial or the SY investigation, so why is his character, or indeed who he calls friend, important ? Surely you don't believe as the more cerebrally challenged among you have suggested that he or his mates where involved in Madeleine's disappearance...........nah you're far too intelligent for that. Aren't you ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 06, 2015, 11:52:52 PM
I have heard the expression JP but I'm not sure how it relates to this situation. Amaral could be the most corrupt, lowdown dirty dog who ever wore a police uniform as may his friends be but what has that got to do with the current situation ? It has no bearing at all on the damages trial or the SY investigation, so why is his character, or indeed who he calls friend, important ? Surely you don't believe as the more cerebrally challenged among you have suggested that he or his mates where involved in Madeleine's disappearance...........nah you're far too intelligent for that. Aren't you ?
This thread is re the latest news....if amaral IS involved in corruption then I think that is relevant...I don't think either him or his mates were involved in Maddie's disappearance but I think they may have been far to busy with their own agendas to mount a proper investigation
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 06, 2015, 11:57:27 PM
This thread is re the latest news....if amaral IS involved in corruption then I think that is relevant...I don't think either him or his mates were involved in Maddie's disappearance but I think they may have been far to busy with their own agendas to mount a proper investigation
So have you proved any corruption on Amaral's part ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 07, 2015, 12:01:00 AM
So have you proved any corruption on Amaral's part ?
amaral has already been found guilty in court of dishonesty...what's to follow...watch this space
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 07, 2015, 12:05:49 AM
I believe a lot of these posts which are not directly,related to the latest news, but corruption, would be better placed..here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5676.msg201679#msg201679
"Are the Portuguese cleansing the country of corruption at last?"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 07, 2015, 12:07:05 AM
I have heard the expression JP but I'm not sure how it relates to this situation. Amaral could be the most corrupt, lowdown dirty dog who ever wore a police uniform as may his friends be but what has that got to do with the current situation ? It has no bearing at all on the damages trial or the SY investigation, so why is his character, or indeed who he calls friend, important ? Surely you don't believe as the more cerebrally challenged among you have suggested that he or his mates where involved in Madeleine's disappearance...........nah you're far too intelligent for that. Aren't you ?
Personally I agree - not involved in Madeleines disappearance. Just a bent incompetent cop who saw an opportunity to profit. A bit like some of his mates, really
But I always thought he was considered akin to a saint by some.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 07, 2015, 12:09:14 AM
Personally I agree - not involved in Madeleines disappearance. Just a bent incompetent cop who saw an opportunity to profit. A bit like some of his mates, really
But I always thought he was considered akin to a saint by some.
He may be but not by me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 07, 2015, 12:23:30 AM
Just a bent incompetent cop who saw an opportunity to profit.
seconded...I don't hate amaral personally...I hate what he represents...people in authority who abuse their position
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 07, 2015, 12:24:03 AM
I believe a lot of these posts which are not directly,related to the latest news, but corruption, would be better placed..here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5676.msg201679#msg201679
"Are the Portuguese cleansing the country of corruption at last?"
If they do can they come and sort out the Met's next? &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 07, 2015, 12:30:01 AM
The whiff of certain members here denying that their beloved Amaral had anything to do with a growing list of corrupt ex police, ex mayors, deputy ex mayors is quite overpowering.
?{)(**
Oh desperation is definitely visible, and we know exactly where that is. @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 07, 2015, 10:00:08 AM
What evidence do you have that Madeleine McCann was not taken during an armed raid?
My comment was in the form of a question. Do you have evidence that suggests that she was?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on March 07, 2015, 10:32:47 AM
Our Prime Minister Passos Coelho is involved in a scandal for not having made his Social Security payments as an independent worker. I'm sure that you will find some way for Gonçalo Amaral to be involved.
José Sócrates, who was so obliging to Gordon Brown and got the case shelved, much to the McCanns' delight, is now in prison for corruption on a grande scale. The McCanns must somehow be involved surely.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 07, 2015, 11:13:39 AM
Our Prime Minister Passos Coelho is involved in a scandal for not having made his Social Security payments as an independent worker. I'm sure that you will find some way for Gonçalo Amaral to be involved.
José Sócrates, who was so obliging to Gordon Brown and got the case shelved, much to the McCanns' delight, is now in prison for corruption on a grande scale. The McCanns must somehow be involved surely.
Oh dear! I think a quick internet search and a browse through YouTube will reinforce the fact that Goncalo Amaral and Paulo Pereira Cristóvão have been very close colleagues for many years.
That much is fact and not speculation.
The charges faced by Cristóvão are very serious ones indeed and the fallout (which already seems to have started if the reported recriminations from the lockup are correct) has the potential to be enormous and wide hitting.
Good try though to mention the McCanns ... although if they or anyone they know had a parking ticket you can be sure someone would have made it their business to let us all know about it.
I think we can be certain sure that unlike Goncalo Amaral's friend Cristóvão ... no one they know either has a conviction for torture or is facing charges for being part of an organised criminal gang.
One robbery victim says that after the home invasion involving the gang of thieves who used subterfuge to enter at gunpoint, his sixteen year old daughter has been left traumatised.
The family had to move because they were too scared to stay in their home.
He and his family are breathing a sigh of relief because Paulo Pereira Cristovao has been arrested.
Don't think the proceeds of these carefully chosen raids were peanuts ... this was grand larceny and the perpetrators members of an organised criminal gang which was made up in large part of serving and former police officers.
**snip
The day of the robbery, the suspects stole checks and statements of debts totalling in excess two million euros . They took also three car keys, including a Lamborghini and Aston Martin. A gold wire of 16 thousand euros, a mobile phone "with 400 contacts of Brazilian companies" and money, the entrepreneur prefers not to quantify. "It was more than ten families who have suffered all together," he says. They could not take the car because the garage condo was locked.
**snip
It took a few months to gather evidence to arrest the former PJ inspector and former vice president of Sporting. It happened on Tuesday.
You know what JP Amaral could gave intimately involved with half of the convicts in Portugal and it would make absolutely no difference to the outcome of either the damages trial or SY's investigation. This is an attempt to deflect pure and simple, and not even a good one at that.
When the McCanns lose their litigation or receive derisory compensation the only people who will be the least bit bother with which criminals Amaral has associated with will be the diehards on forums like this. The MSM will be too busy disseminating the juicy details ( for once free from the spectre of CR ) to care who the McCann's nemesis shared his birthday cake with and the general public will care even less.
So carry on spreading your propoganda if it brings you comfort.. Events are happening beyond your or your compadre's control and I get the feeling you are all going to have to get used to that.
I think you have missed the point somewhat Faith. IMO 'supporters' of the McCanns are only interested in seeing JUSTICE done on behalf of a missing child and her family - whereas many sceptics only seem interested in conducting an angry personal vendetta against her parents. We are not two sides of the same coin. Far from it IMO. I don't hate Amaral - I hate injustice.
Nothing said here will change the verdict of the court - so the idea that folk are trying to deflect from it is preposterous - because as it makes no difference - it makes no sense to have that as an aim.
Personally I have never had any high expectations of the outcome - mainly because of the different stance re 'libel' which exists in Portuguese law - and which is so different to our own libel laws. If the book is deemed to be libellous that will be enough for me. I suspect it will be for the McCanns too.
Whether the decision of the court will bring the matter to a close is also not certain, as it would appear years of 'appeals' are par for the course in Portuguese court cases. So unfortunately the case may yet be far from over.
With regard to Cristovao's arrest this week. If it was DCI Redwood who it was revealed not only had a conviction for perjury, but was also in the habit of keeping company with an ex policeman now arrested for serious crimes (including kidnapping) - then I doubt that any comments made here would be so quickly dismissed as 'propaganda' by yourself. The implications of such an arrest/association would probably be the main topic of conversation by sceptics here - and the lynchmobbers would be out in force elsewhere. But I'm sure you already know that Faith.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 07, 2015, 12:25:06 PM
I think you have missed the point somewhat Faith. IMO 'supporters' of the McCanns are only interested in seeing JUSTICE done on behalf of a missing child and her family - whereas many sceptics only seem interested in conducting an angry personal vendetta against her parents. We are not two sides of the same coin. Far from it IMO. I don't hate Amaral - I hate injustice.
Nothing said here will change the verdict of the court - so the idea that folk are trying to deflect from it is preposterous - because as it makes no difference - it makes no sense to have that as an aim.
Personally I have never had any high expectations of the outcome - mainly because of the different stance re 'libel' which exists in Portuguese law - and which is so different to our own libel laws. If the book is deemed to be libellous that will be enough for me. I suspect it will be for the McCanns too.
Whether the decision of the court will bring the matter to a close is also not certain, as it would appear years of 'appeals' are par for the course in Portuguese court cases. So unfortunately the case may yet be far from over.
With regard to Cristovao's arrest this week. If it was DCI Redwood who it was revealed not only had a conviction for perjury, but was also in the habit of keeping company with an ex policeman now arrested for serious crimes (including kidnapping) - then I doubt that any comments made here would be so quickly dismissed as 'propaganda' by yourself. The implications of such an arrest/association would probably be the main topic of conversation by sceptics here - and the lynchmobbers would be out in force elsewhere. But I'm sure you already know that Faith.
I am honestly still not seeing your point Benice. Amaral's convictions, friends, debts or number of pre-marital affairs has nothing to do with what is happening now either in the damages trial or indeed the PJ/SY investigation.
Rebelo was head of the PJ investigation for far longer than Amaral and it was he who pushed for both the rogatory interviews and the reconstruction, not the actions of a man who was convinced of the McCanns and their friend's innocence and much as Amaral's part in the investigation is routinely potrayed as incompetent it seems that Rebelo didn't agree and simply followed the direction already tread by his predecessor.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 07, 2015, 12:31:31 PM
Our Prime Minister Passos Coelho is involved in a scandal for not having made his Social Security payments as an independent worker. I'm sure that you will find some way for Gonçalo Amaral to be involved.
José Sócrates, who was so obliging to Gordon Brown and got the case shelved, much to the McCanns' delight, is now in prison for corruption on a grande scale. The McCanns must somehow be involved surely.
It would seem that is how things are deduced on this thread. I would like to know what part of Madelienes disapearance Dr Amaral involved with. He is such a hated figue on the 'say so' of McCanns. The McCanns have not been found GUILTY of anything, but then they haven't been to court charged with anything--does that make them innocent...NO!
It may well be because no physical evidence or indepedance witnesses are lacking OR they did a great job in hiding the evidence; either way I ask again, what has this got to do with Amaral?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on March 07, 2015, 12:36:14 PM
It would seem that is how things are deduced on this thread. I would like to know what part of Madelienes disapearance Dr Amaral involved with. He is such a hated figue on the 'say so' of McCanns. The McCanns have not been found GUILTY of anything, but then they haven't been to court charged with anything--does that make them innocent...NO!
It may well be because no physical evidence or indepedance witnesses are lacking OR they did a great job in hiding the evidence; either way I ask again, what has this got to do with Amaral?
mccan supporters balame anybody but the mcanns ( not talking about montclair)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 07, 2015, 01:44:09 PM
mccan supporters balame anybody but the mcanns ( not talking about montclair)
I don’t know how you came to that conclusion, Carly, but I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Do the McCann adversaries, blame anyone other than the McCanns and associates?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 07, 2015, 09:52:33 PM
It would seem that is how things are deduced on this thread. I would like to know what part of Madelienes disapearance Dr Amaral involved with. He is such a hated figue on the 'say so' of McCanns. The McCanns have not been found GUILTY of anything, but then they haven't been to court charged with anything--does that make them innocent...NO!
It may well be because no physical evidence or indepedance witnesses are lacking OR they did a great job in hiding the evidence; either way I ask again, what has this got to do with Amaral?
If Paulo Pereira Cristovao had been an Egyptian Pharaoh his face would have been chiselled off every stele and wall painting by now ... I wonder if anyone in Portugal ever knew him and was happy to call him friend?
Guilt by association is unfair, but experience dictates that had Paulo Pereira Cristovao been a slight acquaintance of the Drs McCann rather than a good friend of Goncalo Amaral, there would be loads of people who would be incapable of restraining themselves from playing catchee monkey or whatever it is they do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 08, 2015, 01:01:45 PM
You really couldn't make it up ...
New Knights and Dames were dubbed this past weekend in the Commandery of Sintra of the Priory of Iberia (OSMTHU) in Portugal. We wish to congratulate them all, welcoming them in a brotherhood of service, spirituality and pursuit of knowledge. Let there be known their names: Dame Anabela Melão, DTJ; Dame Ana Tavares de Mello, DTJ; Dame Susana Ferreira, DTJ; Dame Isabel Passos, DTJ; Knight Bruno Judas, KTJ; Knight Michel Rodrigues, KTJ; Knight Paulo Cristóvão, KCTJ; Knight Paulo Valente, KTJ; Knight Rui Herdadinha, Knight Vitor Barata, KTJ and Knight Vitorino Batalim, KTJ. https://templars.wordpress.com/2014/10/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 08, 2015, 01:07:11 PM
New Knights and Dames were dubbed this past weekend in the Commandery of Sintra of the Priory of Iberia (OSMTHU) in Portugal. We wish to congratulate them all, welcoming them in a brotherhood of service, spirituality and pursuit of knowledge. Let there be known their names: Dame Anabela Melão, DTJ; Dame Ana Tavares de Mello, DTJ; Dame Susana Ferreira, DTJ; Dame Isabel Passos, DTJ; Knight Bruno Judas, KTJ; Knight Michel Rodrigues, KTJ; Knight Paulo Cristóvão, KCTJ; Knight Paulo Valente, KTJ; Knight Rui Herdadinha, Knight Vitor Barata, KTJ and Knight Vitorino Batalim, KTJ. https://templars.wordpress.com/2014/10/
When we hear just yesterday that Margaret Thatcher pushed for Cyril Smith to be awarded an MBE even though there had been accusations of paedophilia directed at him for years there's nothing that surprises me anymore.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 08, 2015, 01:14:52 PM
New Knights and Dames were dubbed this past weekend in the Commandery of Sintra of the Priory of Iberia (OSMTHU) in Portugal. We wish to congratulate them all, welcoming them in a brotherhood of service, spirituality and pursuit of knowledge. Let there be known their names: Dame Anabela Melão, DTJ; Dame Ana Tavares de Mello, DTJ; Dame Susana Ferreira, DTJ; Dame Isabel Passos, DTJ; Knight Bruno Judas, KTJ; Knight Michel Rodrigues, KTJ; Knight Paulo Cristóvão, KCTJ; Knight Paulo Valente, KTJ; Knight Rui Herdadinha, Knight Vitor Barata, KTJ and Knight Vitorino Batalim, KTJ. https://templars.wordpress.com/2014/10/
Note: It should be noted that Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, reported as Commander of Lisbon, hasn’t been a member of the Order since December 13, 2014. The recent criminal cahrges faced by Paulo Pereira Crisóvão pertain only to his private life and do not commit the Order or its members in any way. The Order regrets to have been misslead for his previous clean criminal record and will duly add his name, according to statutes, to the public record of those revoked from the Order.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 08, 2015, 01:47:38 PM
Note: It should be noted that Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, reported as Commander of Lisbon, hasn’t been a member of the Order since December 13, 2014. The recent criminal cahrges faced by Paulo Pereira Crisóvão pertain only to his private life and do not commit the Order or its members in any way. The Order regrets to have been misslead for his previous clean criminal record and will duly add his name, according to statutes, to the public record of those revoked from the Order.
Thank you for adding that caveat.
I don't know much at all about the Order and the work it undertakes, Anna, so my post was not pejorative towards them; I know they were duped and are not best pleased about it. Although the Google translation I had was so poor I couldn't make head nor tale, I got that much.
However I think this must have been a particularly cynical self serving ploy on behalf of Paulo Pereira Crisóvão.
I am really beginning to think he was of the opinion that he was untouchable and despite the sanctions imposed by the football club, I wonder if he really believed the Judiciary would not proceed with those and the added criminal charges against him.
I think this is a truly dangerous individual.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 08, 2015, 01:49:14 PM
I don't know much at all about the Order and the work it undertakes, Anna, so my post was not pejorative towards them; I know they were duped and are not best pleased about it. Although the Google translation I had was so poor I couldn't make head nor tale, I got that much.
However I think this must have been a particularly cynical self serving ploy on behalf of Paulo Pereira Crisóvão.
I am really beginning to think he was of the opinion that he was untouchable and despite the sanctions imposed by the football club, I wonder if he really believed the Judiciary would not proceed with those and the added criminal charges against him.
I think this is a truly dangerous individual.
Of course you do, and we know why, don't we brietta ?
%£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 08, 2015, 02:06:04 PM
I don't know much at all about the Order and the work it undertakes, Anna, so my post was not pejorative towards them; I know they were duped and are not best pleased about it. Although the Google translation I had was so poor I couldn't make head nor tale, I got that much.
However I think this must have been a particularly cynical self serving ploy on behalf of Paulo Pereira Crisóvão.
I am really beginning to think he was of the opinion that he was untouchable and despite the sanctions imposed by the football club, I wonder if he really believed the Judiciary would not proceed with those and the added criminal charges against him.
I think this is a truly dangerous individual.
Where there is Power, there is corruption, Brietta and where there is corruption, there is a power, behind it. Power often causes fear of retribution, for any act of retaliation, in the less powerful.
Will he get off lightly?
I didn't know that he was a Templar knight, so that was very interesting information. I know of someone on here who will be very interested.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on March 08, 2015, 03:49:04 PM
I am trying to know, but it is very difficult ... Who remains as arguido, or who remain as arguidos, up to date?
The Polícia Judiciária in Faro has two front person doors, and a back car door in the building. So it was difficult for the journalists to catch all the arguidos or all the witnesses, IMO ...
Does anyone of you know?
Heri.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 08, 2015, 03:58:47 PM
I am trying to know, but it is very difficult ... Who remains as arguido, or who remain as arguidos, up to date?
The Polícia Judiciária in Faro has two front person doors, and a back car door in the building. So it was difficult for the journalists to catch all the arguidos or all the witnesses, IMO ...
Does anyone of you know?
Heri.
Sorry, Heri, I was not aware there was any Arquidos, but I believe the secrecy laws are responsible for the lack of information.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on March 08, 2015, 06:26:24 PM
Where there is Power, there is corruption, Brietta and where there is corruption, there is a power, behind it. Power often causes fear of retribution, for any act of retaliation, in the less powerful.
Will he get off lightly?
I didn't know that he was a Templar knight, so that was very interesting information. I know of someone on here who will be very interested.
Some do say that Gerry is KT....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 08, 2015, 07:39:36 PM
Some say almost anything which pops into their tiny skulls when talking about Dr McCann.
I presume KT is Knights Templar ??
They do not appear to be an organisation which hides its light under a bushel, so for what it is worth I am sure the information regarding who is who in the organisation is readily available in the public domain.
That is after all exactly where I accessed the information concerning Paulo Pereira Cristóvão.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 09, 2015, 11:13:51 AM
Hulk Hogan tricked into re-tweeting sick Madeleine McCann joke of 'hide and seek champion'
(http://i.imgur.com/Bf313qt.jpg?1)
8 March 2015
By Simon Keegan
Wrestling veteran fell victim to trolls who tricked him into re-tweeting an insensitive Maddie McCann joke.
WWE legend Hulk Hogan fell victim to a sink prank on Twitter in which tragic Maddie McCann was referred to as a "hide and seek champion".
Hogan, 61, who is recognised as a 12 time world heavyweight wrestling champion was tricked by trolls.
Cruel pranksters messaged the grappler, real name Terry Bollea, saying: "any chance of an RT for my little niece? She just won the hide and seek competition and loves watching you."
Hogan, who became internationally famous for his role as Thunderlips in Rocky III, innocently re-tweeted the shot of Madeleine, not noticing it was a photograph of Madeline.
She disappeared during a family holiday in Portugal as her parents Kate and Gerry were eating in a near-by restaurant.
An international appeal for help finding Maddy has brought numerous reported sightings, none of them confirmed.
The Twitter user who originally posted the tweet wrote afterwards that it had been a joke and he later made his account private and the tweet can no longer be seen.
Hulk Hogan broke into wrestling in the 1970s and became the business's biggest star in the 1980s when he headlined the first WrestleMania events with the likes of Mr T, Rowdy Roddy Piper and Andre the Giant.
Some say almost anything which pops into their tiny skulls when talking about Dr McCann.
I presume KT is Knights Templar ??
They do not appear to be an organisation which hides its light under a bushel, so for what it is worth I am sure the information regarding who is who in the organisation is readily available in the public domain.
That is after all exactly where I accessed the information concerning Paulo Pereira Cristóvão.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 09, 2015, 02:24:39 PM
It may be, as is constantly suggested by some of the stranger posters, Gerry is a member of the knights of St Columbus?
This organisation was set up by the Roman Catholic church in opposition to the Free Masons, who refused to cow tow to the Pope with regards to religious doctrine, and dispersal of funds. The Pope forbade Catholics from joining.
This is why blaming the Masons and Gerry's membership of it is ludicrous!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 09, 2015, 02:50:08 PM
It may be, as is constantly suggested by some of the stranger posters, Gerry is a member of the knights of St Columbus?
This organisation was set up by the Roman Catholic church in opposition to the Free Masons, who refused to cow tow to the Pope with regards to religious doctrine, and dispersal of funds. The Pope forbade Catholics from joining.
This is why blaming the Masons and Gerry's membership of it is ludicrous!
Try Saint Columba and you will be nearer to the mark.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 09, 2015, 03:11:45 PM
Oh Seriously!
Try either Columba or Columbus (http://www.kofc.org/en/) Consider that mark HIT!...Oh bet you hate yourself for trying to be smart lol
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 09, 2015, 03:22:35 PM
WWE legend Hulk Hogan fell victim to a sink prank on Twitter in which tragic Maddie McCann was referred to as a "hide and seek champion".
Hogan, 61, who is recognised as a 12 time world heavyweight wrestling champion was tricked by trolls.
Cruel pranksters messaged the grappler, real name Terry Bollea, saying: "any chance of an RT for my little niece? She just won the hide and seek competition and loves watching you."
Hogan, who became internationally famous for his role as Thunderlips in Rocky III, innocently re-tweeted the shot of Madeleine, not noticing it was a photograph of Madeline.
She disappeared during a family holiday in Portugal as her parents Kate and Gerry were eating in a near-by restaurant.
An international appeal for help finding Maddy has brought numerous reported sightings, none of them confirmed.
The Twitter user who originally posted the tweet wrote afterwards that it had been a joke and he later made his account private and the tweet can no longer be seen.
Hulk Hogan broke into wrestling in the 1970s and became the business's biggest star in the 1980s when he headlined the first WrestleMania events with the likes of Mr T, Rowdy Roddy Piper and Andre the Giant.
Try either Columba or Columbus (http://www.kofc.org/en/) Consider that mark HIT!...Oh bet you hate yourself for trying to be smart lol
As I said ... try The Knights of St Columba ... much closer to the mark
**snip
The Knights of Saint Columba is a Catholic fraternal service organisation and the largest of its kind in Britain.
Founded in Glasgow in 1919, it is named in honour of Saint Columba, a Christian missionary from Ireland who helped to introduce Christianity to people in Northern Britain.
http://www.ksc.org.uk/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on March 09, 2015, 04:04:17 PM
As I said ... try The Knights of St Columba ... much closer to the mark
**snip
The Knights of Saint Columba is a Catholic fraternal service organisation and the largest of its kind in Britain.
Founded in Glasgow in 1919, it is named in honour of Saint Columba, a Christian missionary from Ireland who helped to introduce Christianity to people in Northern Britain.
http://www.ksc.org.uk/
It was brought from the USA...St Columbus/Columba same organization.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 09, 2015, 05:58:36 PM
It was brought from the USA...St Columbus/Columba same organization.
Not to be confused with Knights of St Columba. The Knights of Columbus is the world's largest Catholic fraternal service organization. Founded by Father Michael J. McGivney in New Haven, Connecticut, in 1882, it was named in honor of the mariner Christopher Columbus. Originally serving as a mutual benefit society to low-income immigrant Catholics, it developed into a fraternal benefit society dedicated to providing charitable services, promoting Catholic education and actively defending Roman Catholicism in various nations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus
Not at all the same ... one is a saint one is a mariner.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 09, 2015, 09:18:06 PM
[quote removed]
Hearts & expectations would have plummeted when the McCanns were briefed on the Cipriano case & they learned the same team of detectives had been assigned to find Madeleine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 09, 2015, 09:26:47 PM
Hearts & expectations would have plummeted when the McCanns were briefed on the Cipriano case & they learned the same team of detectives had been assigned to find Madeleine.
I wonder when they were told that Goncalo Amaral the co-ordinator of the PJ investigation into Madeleine's disappearance was an arguido and facing trial for the torture of Joana Cipriano's mother?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on March 09, 2015, 09:45:13 PM
The fund was set up because people were sending money and something had to be done about that. The McCanns could have put the money into their own bank account and just said thankyou very much. If they had done that people might have had something to criticise imo, but they didn't - and yet still they are criticised.
They could have put their compensation for libel into their own bank accounts, and also the profits from Kate's book - but they didn't do that either - and still they are criticised. The £55,000 latest payment for libel was donated by them to two charities. This means that over the years charities have benefited by approx £100,000 in total because of them. And yet still all they get is sneering criticism from some quarters and are accused of being in it for the money! Utterly bizarre IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 09, 2015, 10:56:14 PM
The fund was set up because people were sending money and something had to be done about that. The McCanns could have put the money into their own bank account and just said thankyou very much. If they had done that people might have had something to criticise imo, but they didn't - and yet still they are criticised.
They could have put their compensation for libel into their own bank accounts, and also the profits from Kate's book - but they didn't do that either - and still they are criticised. The £55,000 latest payment for libel was donated by them to two charities. This means that over the years charities have benefited by approx £100,000 in total because of them. And yet still all they get is sneering criticism from some quarters and are accused of being in it for the money! Utterly bizarre IMO.
They had no money prior to 3 May 2007. The wider agenda is being in control. Money money money! The yard releasing Smithman efits and getting rid of their abductor Tannerman on Crimewatch with them in the studio is taking back control. Not that you can tell from their website. They want to find Tannerman and Smithman efits are not there.
Gerry said in an interview the abductor used a high risk strategy and was nearly caught by Jane.
KM Well first of all, I didn't just walk in and notice she'd gone. It was the fact that the door was open to the bedroom quite wide. When I went to close the door, it slammed and that's when I noticed that Madeleine was there. And then I thought had she wandered through to our bed, so I went through to our room and she wasn't there and then I went back in again. And ermm... And then I just literally flew round the apartment, once I realised that the window was open and the shutter was up. I flew round the apartment and I just flew. I don't know, I don't... You know, I just ran out, I mean, I knew I could be there in seconds and I just screamed as soon as I saw the table. I screamed.
The moving door ?>)()< and Kate keeps forgetting about looking out the window first to see if she could see anything like she forgot in her statement (sounds like it never happened) or running out the front to check if there was any sign of her daughter. She didn't know if Maddy was close by or not - she didn't even check. Go check first not run in the opposite direction. But she remembered looking out the window for the book (excluding Smithman efits of course - gotta stay in control!) where her fingerprints were found. How extraordinary!
They had no money prior to 3 May 2007. The wider agenda is being in control. Money money money! The yard releasing Smithman efits and getting rid of their abductor Tannerman on Crimewatch with them in the studio is taking back control. Not that you can tell from their website. They want to find Tannerman and Smithman efits are not there.
Gerry said in an interview the abductor used a high risk strategy and was nearly caught by Jane.
KM Well first of all, I didn't just walk in and notice she'd gone. It was the fact that the door was open to the bedroom quite wide. When I went to close the door, it slammed and that's when I noticed that Madeleine was there. And then I thought had she wandered through to our bed, so I went through to our room and she wasn't there and then I went back in again. And ermm... And then I just literally flew round the apartment, once I realised that the window was open and the shutter was up. I flew round the apartment and I just flew. I don't know, I don't... You know, I just ran out, I mean, I knew I could be there in seconds and I just screamed as soon as I saw the table. I screamed.
The moving door ?>)()< and Kate keeps forgetting about looking out the window first to see if she could see anything like she forgot in her statement (sounds like it never happened) or running out the front to check if there was any sign of her daughter. She didn't know if Maddy was close by or not - she didn't even check. Go check first not run in the opposite direction. But she remembered looking out the window for the book (excluding Smithman efits of course - gotta stay in control!) where her fingerprints were found. How extraordinary!
Sorry PF but I really can't see the connection between my post and your reply - which seems to be finding fault with Kate because she is human and doesn't have a memory that works like a tape recorder and that she didn't do things the way you would have done them. You also forget that neither Kate or Gerry had the hindsight which you so often use to make points. You know what was going to happen following Madeleine's abduction - they did not. They could not see into the future.
As far as I am concerned the McCanns have done the exact opposite of what people with a plan to make money for themselves would have done. They have had several opportunities to quite legally amass money for themselves in their own private bank accounts - and have taken none of them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 10, 2015, 09:39:44 AM
They had no money prior to 3 May 2007. The wider agenda is being in control. Money money money! The yard releasing Smithman efits and getting rid of their abductor Tannerman on Crimewatch with them in the studio is taking back control. Not that you can tell from their website. They want to find Tannerman and Smithman efits are not there.
Gerry said in an interview the abductor used a high risk strategy and was nearly caught by Jane.
KM Well first of all, I didn't just walk in and notice she'd gone. It was the fact that the door was open to the bedroom quite wide. When I went to close the door, it slammed and that's when I noticed that Madeleine was there. And then I thought had she wandered through to our bed, so I went through to our room and she wasn't there and then I went back in again. And ermm... And then I just literally flew round the apartment, once I realised that the window was open and the shutter was up. I flew round the apartment and I just flew. I don't know, I don't... You know, I just ran out, I mean, I knew I could be there in seconds and I just screamed as soon as I saw the table. I screamed.
The moving door ?>)()< and Kate keeps forgetting about looking out the window first to see if she could see anything like she forgot in her statement (sounds like it never happened) or running out the front to check if there was any sign of her daughter. She didn't know if Maddy was close by or not - she didn't even check. Go check first not run in the opposite direction. But she remembered looking out the window for the book (excluding Smithman efits of course - gotta stay in control!) where her fingerprints were found. How extraordinary!
Sorry PF but I really can't see the connection between my post and your reply - which seems to be finding fault with Kate because she is human and doesn't have a memory that works like a tape recorder and that she didn't do things the way you would have done them. You also forget that neither Kate or Gerry had the hindsight which you so often use to make points. You know what was going to happen following Madeleine's abduction - they did not. They could not see into the future.
As far as I am concerned the McCanns have done the exact opposite of what people with a plan to make money for themselves would have done. They have had several opportunities to quite legally amass money for themselves in their own private bank accounts - and have taken none of them.
By making themselves directors of the fund the McCanns have control of the money they have paid into it and further we have no idea how much money the McCanns have made through TV and magazine interviews etc.
Tell me Benice why did you think the McCanns added themselves as directors to the fund when they knew it would be questioned by the public ? Didn't they trust their friends and family to use the money in the best interests of Madeleine ? And was talk that John McCann removed himself from the board after an disagreement with the couple relevant ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2015, 10:38:52 AM
I forget - was it ever explained what the 'wider agenda' referred to ?
I would say the wider agenda was looking for and finding Madeleine McCann.
The problem with concentrating on one image on a flip chart presentation, is similar to taking one sentence from a book.
It is totally meaningless ... if that image fits your agenda, I wonder if the next one would.
I find there is an inherent dishonesty involved in such selectivity which has made me highly suspicious of those who use the technique to promote their own agenda.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 10, 2015, 10:43:43 AM
I would say the wider agenda was looking for and finding Madeleine McCann.
The problem with concentrating on one image on a flip chart presentation, is similar to taking one sentence from a book.
It is totally meaningless ... if that image fits your agenda, I wonder if the next one would.
I find there is an inherent dishonesty involved in such selectivity which has made me highly suspicious of those who use the technique to promote their own agenda.
* Irony Klaxon *
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on March 10, 2015, 10:45:46 AM
By making themselves directors of the fund the McCanns have control of the money they have paid into it and further we have no idea how much money the McCanns have made through TV and magazine interviews etc.
Tell me Benice why did you think the McCanns added themselves as directors to the fund when they knew it would be questioned by the public ? Didn't they trust their friends and family to use the money in the best interests of Madeleine ? And was talk that John McCann removed himself from the board after an disagreement with the couple relevant ?
It seems to me to be common sense for them to be Directors of the fund. As Madeleine's parents they are the two people who - more than anyone else - would know most about the plans and requirements likely to involve the fund as they were permanently involved on a day to day basis in the plans being made and implemented - as part of the search to find out what had happened to their daughter.
IMO The only people questioning them are those sceptics who question and criticise everything they do and everything they say. Why would they be bothered about those people when it's a foregone conclusion that there is nothing they can do which is ever going to meet with their approval?
If they hadn't become Directors no doubt sceptics would be claiming that even their friends and family didn't trust them to use the money in Madeleine's best interests. One thing is for sure - sceptics woudn't be praising them for doing what they perceive to be the right thing i.e. not becoming Directors. Not a chance.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't - every step of the way.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 10, 2015, 10:49:41 AM
I would say the wider agenda was looking for and finding Madeleine McCann.
The problem with concentrating on one image on a flip chart presentation, is similar to taking one sentence from a book.
It is totally meaningless ... if that image fits your agenda, I wonder if the next one would.
I find there is an inherent dishonesty involved in such selectivity which has made me highly suspicious of those who use the technique to promote their own agenda.
You don't think that was adequately covered under 'investigation' and 'funding' ?
Bye the bye, I find your aggressive response quite illuminating, not to say predictable.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 10, 2015, 10:52:52 AM
It seems to me to be common sense for them to be Directors of the fund. As Madeleine's parents they are the two people who - more than anyone else - would know most about the plans and requirements likely to involve the fund as they were permanently involved on a day to day basis in the plans being made and implemented - as part of the search to find out what had happened to their daughter.
IMO The only people questioning them are those sceptics who question and criticise everything they do and everything they say. Why would they be bothered about those people when it's a foregone conclusion that there is nothing they can do which is ever going to meet with their approval?
If they hadn't become Directors no doubt sceptics would be claiming that even their friends and family didn't trust them to use the money in Madeleine's best interests. One thing is for sure - sceptics woudn't be praising them for doing what they perceive to be the right thing i.e. not becoming Directors. Not a chance.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't - every step of the way.
Conversely it could be argued that as the McCanns are Madeleine's parents and therefore they are too emotionally involved to make subjective decisions on how the fund money is spent.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2015, 11:30:21 AM
You don't think that was adequately covered under 'investigation' and 'funding' ?
Bye the bye, I find your aggressive response quite illuminating, not to say predictable.
Since I haven't seen the full presentation and listened to what the presenter has to say I have absolutely no idea and nor does anyone not in the room at that moment so long ago in time.
What I find illuminating is the constant rehash of events which happened eight years ago in the attempt to smear Madeleine McCann's parents ... this is all very old hat ... and events have moved on.
Recent and current news involves the reopening of Madeleine McCann's case and the rather extraordinary catalogue of criminal charges brought against close associates of Goncalo Amaral, whose criminal record doesn't pass muster either.
I'm not looking back to innuendos of 2007/2008 ... in 2015 I'm anticipating and hoping for good news regarding Madeleine ... and watching with interest the development and revelations of current criminal cases.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 10, 2015, 11:32:57 AM
Since I haven't seen the full presentation and listened to what the presenter has to say I have absolutely no idea and nor does anyone not in the room at that moment so long ago in time.
What I find illuminating is the constant rehash of events which happened eight years ago in the attempt to smear Madeleine McCann's parents ... this is all very old hat ... and events have moved on.
Recent and current news involves the reopening of Madeleine McCann's case and the rather extraordinary catalogue of criminal charges brought against close associates of Goncalo Amaral, whose criminal record doesn't pass muster either.
I'm not looking back to innuendos of 2007/2008 ... in 2015 I'm anticipating and hoping for good news regarding Madeleine ... and watching with interest the development and revelations of current criminal cases.
Surely, in that case, there was no need for you to answer my question as you clearly don't know.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2015, 11:56:58 AM
I would say the wider agenda was looking for and finding Madeleine McCann.
The problem with concentrating on one image on a flip chart presentation, is similar to taking one sentence from a book.
It is totally meaningless ... if that image fits your agenda, I wonder if the next one would.
I find there is an inherent dishonesty involved in such selectivity which has made me highly suspicious of those who use the technique to promote their own agenda.
I agree. Picking out a word here and a phrase there - and deliberately ignoring the context - results in comments such as ......'Nothing of value was taken'... being regularly held up as 'proof' of the McCanns uncaring attitude towards their daughter. Totally dishonest IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2015, 12:31:46 PM
I think you need to check the meaning of rhetorical and your answer seemed to have little relevance at all.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to stick to the subject of the threads. If you really want to start a thread where we can slag each other off and be thoroughly unpleasant to each other ... you could always check it out with admin.
In the meantime, I have given you my take on what constitutes latest news, which does not involve one image taken from a presentation circa 2007.
Unless you can tie it in with present developments in Madeleine McCann's case, which you have so far failed to do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 10, 2015, 03:02:09 PM
Of course it was explained, many years ago, and just as the presenter is depicted explaining the particular page he is speaking to, he would turn the page over to the next and explain that page to the audience, he would then turn the next page etc ... etc ... etc ... then there would probably be a question and answer session.
Is it your suggestion this secretive and inexplicable lecture by one of your prime subjects was entirely overlooked by the PJ ?
Surely not another obvious failure!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 10, 2015, 05:01:48 PM
I asked if anyone had given an explanation of what it meant. A straightforward question All I have had so far is your interpretation of what you think it might mean.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on March 10, 2015, 05:40:40 PM
A Child Rescue Alert for your area has been issued by the police.
If you have any information please call 0300 200 0333.
Charlotte Bainbridge
Missing From: Chilwell, Nottingham
Date went missing: 10/03/2015 06:00 AM
Age: 14
Gender: Female
Eyes: -
Hair: jaw line length, possibly tied up.
Height: -
Description: Petite build, wearing black leggings, a t-shirt and a green coat with a fur-lined hood
Incident:
Charlotte was reported missing from her home this morning. She is believed to be on her own. A member of the public reported seeing a girl, matching the description of Charlotte, near junction 28 of the M1, earlier today
Please do not reply to this email. Please visit the main Child Rescue Alert Website for more information http://www.childrescuealert.org.uk/CharlotteBainbridge (http://www.childrescuealert.org.uk/CharlotteBainbridge)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 10, 2015, 06:50:28 PM
Are you seriously suggesting that Gerry needed to explain to the general public (read: "sceptics") what a few words on a photo of his flip chart meant? Have you nothing of any serious import to question or wonder about?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 11, 2015, 08:07:30 PM
A Child Rescue Alert for your area has been issued by the police.
If you have any information please call 0300 200 0333.
Charlotte Bainbridge
Missing From: Chilwell, Nottingham
Date went missing: 10/03/2015 06:00 AM
Age: 14
Gender: Female
Eyes: -
Hair: jaw line length, possibly tied up.
Height: -
Description: Petite build, wearing black leggings, a t-shirt and a green coat with a fur-lined hood
Incident:
Charlotte was reported missing from her home this morning. She is believed to be on her own. A member of the public reported seeing a girl, matching the description of Charlotte, near junction 28 of the M1, earlier today
Please do not reply to this email. Please visit the main Child Rescue Alert Website for more information http://www.childrescuealert.org.uk/CharlotteBainbridge (http://www.childrescuealert.org.uk/CharlotteBainbridge)
Found safe and well. ?{)(** Relieved parents, I bet.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 12, 2015, 03:38:08 PM
Britain isn't the only country anxious to have cold cases wrapped up.
I hope the Spanish detectives trying to find out what happened to Yeremi manage to get some useful information from Lauchlan and O,Neill even if it is only to enable eliminating them from the inquiry.
Spanish detectives fly to Scotland to quiz two paedophiles about boy missing for eight years 08:43, 12 March 2015 By David Taylor THE two convicted sex offenders serving life in prison for a 1997 murder were in Spain at the time of Yeremi Vargas' disappearance.
SPANISH police are travelling to Scotland to interview two killer paedophiles about a schoolboy who disappeared eight years ago.
William Lauchlan, 36, and his lover Charles O’Neill, 50, will be quizzed about Yeremi Vargas, who went missing in March 2007.
The convicted child sex offenders are serving life in prison for killing 39-year-old Allison McGarrigle in 1997 after she planned to report them for abusing a boy.
They were also interviewed by British detectives probing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, three, who vanished while in Portugal eight weeks after Yeremi, seven, vanished.
José Miguel Hidalgo, who is leading the investigation into Yeremi’s disappearance, said officers will go to Scotland “as soon as possible”.
He added: “These are very dangerous men. We want to question them as they were in the area at the time of the boy’s disappearance.”
Yeremi, who will be 15 if he is alive, was playing near his home in Gran Canaria when he disappeared.
O’Neill and Lauchlan ran a cleaning business near Yeremi’s home in Vecindario and have been suspects since 2007.
They were served a formal request from a Spanish court last year but refused to speak until now.
Hidalgo said he did not know why they had such a “radical change of mind”.
Yeremi’s mother, Ithaisa Suarez, said previously: “I’m convinced those monsters took my little boy”.
A third Scot, Ewan Wilson from Falkirk, was named as a suspect in 2013.
A friend of the pair, who are from Largs, Ayrshire, is understood to have visited them in Gran Canaria the month Yeremi vanished.
Wilson insists all three are innocent, and that he visited O’Neill and Lauchlan after Yeremi was last seen.
I see this all took place in the Canary Isles, so nowhere near Portugal. I wonder why they were interviewed by SY ?
Edit - I see that it was thought that one of them might have visited Portugal in May 2007
The ease with which criminal classes appear to be able to come and go using false passports means that no-one can be completely clear about their whereabouts at any moment in time or what sort of illicit practices they may be involved in.
I'm sure the police could have been considered remiss had they ignored these two without trying to ascertain where they had been and what contacts they may have had.
**clip They were interviewed in prison by detectives after inquiries revealed they had been touring Spain, and possibly Portugal, on false passports when Madeleine disappeared in May 2007.
**clip The pair fled to Spain and started up a cleaning business called Rainbow Cleaning Services.
At the same time a seven-year-old boy called Yeremi Vargas disappeared in Gran Canaria where the pair were staying. The boy has never been found.
Lauchlan and O’Neill are known to have toured extensively and some reports suggested they were in the Algarve at the time Madeleine disappeared.
They returned to the UK and began living in Blackpool in November 2007.
As convicted sex offenders they were required to report to police but they failed to declare they had bought a van.
The ease with which criminal classes appear to be able to come and go using false passports means that no-one can be completely clear about their whereabouts at any moment in time or what sort of illicit practices they may be involved in.
I'm sure the police could have been considered remiss had they ignored these two without trying to ascertain where they had been and what contacts they may have had.
**clip They were interviewed in prison by detectives after inquiries revealed they had been touring Spain, and possibly Portugal, on false passports when Madeleine disappeared in May 2007.
**clip The pair fled to Spain and started up a cleaning business called Rainbow Cleaning Services.
At the same time a seven-year-old boy called Yeremi Vargas disappeared in Gran Canaria where the pair were staying. The boy has never been found.
Lauchlan and O’Neill are known to have toured extensively and some reports suggested they were in the Algarve at the time Madeleine disappeared.
They returned to the UK and began living in Blackpool in November 2007.
As convicted sex offenders they were required to report to police but they failed to declare they had bought a van.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 12, 2015, 07:40:57 PM
Yeremi's mother contacted me a few months back about these developments and she was hopeful for some sort of resolution even now. It must be really dreadful for her not knowing what happened to him.
She's certainly convinced this pair of sickos know more than they have hitherto admitted to.
Yeremi's mother contacted me a few months back about these developments and she was hopeful for some sort of resolution even now. It must be really dreadful for her not knowing what happened to him. She's certainly convinced this pair of sickos know more than they have hitherto admitted to.
Yeremi's mother contacted me a few months back about these developments and she was hopeful for some sort of resolution even now. It must be really dreadful for her not knowing what happened to him.
She's certainly convinced this pair of sickos know more than they have hitherto admitted to.
Perhaps we have an answer to the oft asked question ... why Madeleine and not one of the twins?? Maybe the passport they had been able to get hold of was for a little girl of Madeleine's age and not a toddler.
**snip The girl was found unharmed and returned to her parents, the minister said.
"The kidnappers had French passports so we immediately contacted the French police and learnt that the documents were valid and persons were known to the police there as they had committed a number of crimes before," Stefanovic said.
He said the motive and whether they targeted a particular child was unclear. They had on them the passport of a French child of a similar age.
In a separate statement, the interior ministry said they were suspected to be human traffickers.
Perhaps we have an answer to the oft asked question ... why Madeleine and not one of the twins?? Maybe the passport they had been able to get hold of was for a little girl of Madeleine's age and not a toddler.
**snip The girl was found unharmed and returned to her parents, the minister said.
"The kidnappers had French passports so we immediately contacted the French police and learnt that the documents were valid and persons were known to the police there as they had committed a number of crimes before," Stefanovic said.
He said the motive and whether they targeted a particular child was unclear. They had on them the passport of a French child of a similar age.
In a separate statement, the interior ministry said they were suspected to be human traffickers.
So you think they get a passport and then find a child to match? That makes sense, Brietta. I would have thought that this is how traffickers would operate.
----------------------------------------------------- Just a bit of the news, kindly posted by Vixte earlier.........................................
3 French citizens arrested for kidnapping 2-year old Serbian girl Published on March 13, 2015 by pmnews · No Comments Three French citizens were arrested in Serbia Friday after kidnapping a two-year-old girl in the capital Belgrade, prompting a movie-style police chase. Around noon a man snatched the girl from her mother’s arms on the street and fled in a car driven by a woman, police said. “We heard a voice screaming ‘my child, my child’ and saw a man and a woman who took away the child speeding off in a car,” a witness told national RTS television channel. Police used cars and helicopters in a sensational chase for some three hours, eventually managing to stop the vehicle with French number plates after it crashed through a ramp at pay toll some 30 kilometres (18 miles) northwest of the capital, Interior Minister Nebojsa Stefanovic said. The girl was found unharmed and returned to her parents, the minister said. “The kidnappers had French passports so we immediately contacted the French police and learnt that the documents were valid and persons were known to the police there as they had committed a number of crimes before,” Stefanovic said. He said the motive and whether they targeted a particular child was unclear. They had on them the passport of a French child of a similar age. In a separate statement, the interior ministry said they were suspected to be human traffickers. If they are tried in Serbia and convicted, they face up to a 15-year jail term.
Posted by pmnews on March 13, 2015, 9:52 pm. Filed under News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed. http://www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2015/03/13/3-french-citizens-arrested-for-kidnapping-2-year-old-serbian-girl/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 13, 2015, 10:44:36 PM
I have long thought that there had to have been a false passport involved in this. I just don't know how one goes about it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 13, 2015, 10:49:31 PM
So you think they get a passport and then find a child to match? That makes sense, Brietta. I would have thought that this is how traffickers would operate.
----------------------------------------------------- Just a bit of the news, kindly posted by Vixte earlier.........................................
3 French citizens arrested for kidnapping 2-year old Serbian girl Published on March 13, 2015 by pmnews · No Comments Three French citizens were arrested in Serbia Friday after kidnapping a two-year-old girl in the capital Belgrade, prompting a movie-style police chase. Around noon a man snatched the girl from her mother’s arms on the street and fled in a car driven by a woman, police said. “We heard a voice screaming ‘my child, my child’ and saw a man and a woman who took away the child speeding off in a car,” a witness told national RTS television channel. Police used cars and helicopters in a sensational chase for some three hours, eventually managing to stop the vehicle with French number plates after it crashed through a ramp at pay toll some 30 kilometres (18 miles) northwest of the capital, Interior Minister Nebojsa Stefanovic said. The girl was found unharmed and returned to her parents, the minister said. “The kidnappers had French passports so we immediately contacted the French police and learnt that the documents were valid and persons were known to the police there as they had committed a number of crimes before,” Stefanovic said. He said the motive and whether they targeted a particular child was unclear. They had on them the passport of a French child of a similar age. In a separate statement, the interior ministry said they were suspected to be human traffickers. If they are tried in Serbia and convicted, they face up to a 15-year jail term.
Posted by pmnews on March 13, 2015, 9:52 pm. Filed under News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed. http://www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2015/03/13/3-french-citizens-arrested-for-kidnapping-2-year-old-serbian-girl/
I cannot believe that people would be brazen enough to steal a child from her mother and try to take her across borders in the manner described.
Bad if this were to be a family dispute or custody battle ... if it proves to be stranger abduction it is the stuff of nightmare.
It also gives the policing authorities a huge dilemma ... do they conduct a hot pursuit as seems to have happened in this case perhaps risking the child ... or do they risk abductors and child vanishing by hanging back?
Words cannot describe the admiration I have for them in recovering the child as quickly as they did, absolutely outstanding.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 13, 2015, 10:57:13 PM
I have long thought that there had to have been a false passport involved in this. I just don't know how one goes about it.
According to the movies a (good) criminal forger is all that is required.
An example may be the people who have been questioned by Operation Grange detectives who have been able in at least one instance to cross continents and sail the Mediterranean with the help of at least one.
From the articles VIXTE posted links to, I get the impression another child's passport may have been used in this case.
I still can't quite take the audacity of it in.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 13, 2015, 10:59:36 PM
I cannot believe that people would be brazen enough to steal a child from her mother and try to take her across borders in the manner described.
Bad if this were to be a family dispute or custody battle ... if it proves to be stranger abduction it is the stuff of nightmare.
It also gives the policing authorities a huge dilemma ... do they conduct a hot pursuit as seems to have happened in this case perhaps risking the child ... or do they risk abductors and child vanishing by hanging back?
Words cannot describe the admiration I have for them in recovering the child as quickly as they did, absolutely outstanding.
They had already committed a number of crimes as told by the French police and they are suspected of trafficking. I believe this child was blonde also?
It has become a cruel world, with financial gain proving more important than human life or compassion for a family losing a child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 13, 2015, 11:00:06 PM
People pay a lot of money to adopt a child quickly, with no questions asked.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 13, 2015, 11:11:50 PM
All they need is a passport of a child and then they can take a similar child, when they find it.
Who were the couple who had a child that looked like Madeleine and said that she went back home with her father?
They can then show a child of similarities. Bushra was another. I am in no way implying that these people have done any wrong,just an example. If you have a similar child that can be shown as the one you were travelling with, you are covered and as Eleanor says there is a lot of money in human trafficking/adoption.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 14, 2015, 09:25:00 AM
Not sure where to put this but there is an interesting story today from Belgrade, Serbia. A two year old girl has been snatched while walking in the street with her mother. Their police acted quickly and closed all exits from the city. The car carrying the little girl broke the police barrier but they were caught. The kidnappers are not communicating with the police. The report is they hold French passports but speak Spanish between themselves.
They had on them the passport of a French child of a similar age. http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/three-french-citizens-held-for-kidnapping-serbian-girl_1561333.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 14, 2015, 09:25:27 AM
I have to ask the question...apart from the mothers statement...what was the evidence of abduction
There were eye witnesses as this happened on the street. A video showing the part of the kidnapping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7Df87mrEbU&t=14 A video of the police with kidnappers after they got caught https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPbRduBDs9A&t=19 (see the car, they have prepared children's stuff in the car)
The mother fought the kidnappers, she even jumped on the car and got hurt while doing this. The car drove away and the mother fell on the street.
In one of the links I have seen one CCTV which looks like the part of the kidnapping.
Quote
Around noon a man snatched the girl from her mother's arms on the street and fled in a car driven by a woman, police said.
"We heard a voice screaming 'my child, my child' and saw a man and a woman who took away the child speeding off in a car," a witness told national RTS television channel. http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/3-french-citizens-held-for-kidnapping-serbian-girl-746493
But also
Quote
If they are tried in Serbia and convicted, they face up to a 15-year jail term.
I thought the sentence would be 15 months in the UK? @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 09:28:40 AM
A snip from Vixte's post:
It is quite puzzling: why would French people go outside of EU into a country with a border and steal a child there?
The police officer also said that as they chased the kidnappers car they noticed them trying to drop the child through the window but the police acted quickly to avoid this..
They later tried to break the police barrier and drive through it, by doing this they would enter the EU - i.e. get to Belgrade-Zagreb motorway and soon after that they would be in Austria. Luckily they got caught!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 09:32:12 AM
I was wondering if they could be hired thugs for a parental abduction, but if that was the case, they wouldn't have attempted to throw a child out of a window, would they? Or perhaps they didn't actually try to do so, but the police just thought so?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 14, 2015, 09:48:48 AM
According to the movies a (good) criminal forger is all that is required.
An example may be the people who have been questioned by Operation Grange detectives who have been able in at least one instance to cross continents and sail the Mediterranean with the help of at least one.
From the articles VIXTE posted links to, I get the impression another child's passport may have been used in this case.
I still can't quite take the audacity of it in.
Please provide a cite for the claim above ? Who was the person 'questioned by Operation Grange' who crossed continents on a false passport ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 14, 2015, 09:51:28 AM
Throwing a child out of a car, or even at a parent might well have given the abductors a chance to escape.
I did wonder about the open window in 5A. The abductor is caught in the act, throws Madeleine at one of her parents and then dives out of the window to run off.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 09:55:55 AM
Throwing a child out of a car, or even at a parent might well have given the abductors a chance to escape.
I did wonder about the open window in 5A. The abductor is caught in the act, throws Madeleine at one of her parents and then dives out of the window to run off.
But if that had happened, Madeleine wouldn't be missing, presumably.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 14, 2015, 09:56:07 AM
I was wondering if they could be hired thugs for a parental abduction, but if that was the case, they wouldn't have attempted to throw a child out of a window, would they? Or perhaps they didn't actually try to do so, but the police just thought so?
I've seen nothing at all reported about this incident in MSM ... are there any updates about the perpetrators?... so no idea at all if this is a 'family' affair which is bad enough. IMO anyone putting a child at risk in this manner isn't fit enough to have charge of a budgie let alone a child.
I find the audacity of the abductors breathtaking to do this in broad daylight in a built up area ... how much simpler to enter a dwelling and lift a child from her bed, yet people have argued the 'impossibility' of such an action for over eight years.
I think the impetus in this incident was to cross the border with the child as quickly as possible ... PDL is very close to an international border which Madeleine could have been across in the minutes after her mother raised the alarm.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 14, 2015, 09:59:44 AM
According to the movies a (good) criminal forger is all that is required.
An example may be the people who have been questioned by Operation Grange detectives who have been able in at least one instance to cross continents and sail the Mediterranean with the help of at least one.
From the articles VIXTE posted links to, I get the impression another child's passport may have been used in this case.
I still can't quite take the audacity of it in.
Surely you're not talking about this fella who's only link to Madeleine seems to be 'a source' who says there is one.
You're doing that slippery thing again Brietta. Repeating McCann-fed nonsense to the Mirror ( their lapdog of choice ) as if it is fact, I would only assume hoping no one will notice.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 14, 2015, 10:09:00 AM
Please provide a cite for the claim above ? Who was the person 'questioned by Operation Grange' who crossed continents on a false passport ?
So tiresome to have demands to cites for statements which are common knowledge to anyone discussing Madeleine's case ... enjoy
Now do require a cite to what has been printed in MSM about this man's alleged travels with scant regard for borders?
Madeleine McCann: Cops quiz British paedophile who was in the Algarve when Maddie vanished
22:46, 2 December 2014 By Adam Aspinall
Officers from Scotland Yard flew to Malta to question Roderick MacDonald, 77, in his prison cell in a bid to uncover any vital clues British police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have quizzed a convicted paedophile said to have been in the Algarve when she vanished.
Officers from Scotland Yard flew to Malta to question Roderick MacDonald, 77, in his prison cell in a bid to uncover any vital clues about who snatched little Madeleine, aged three at the time.
MacDonald was questioned about his alleged connection to a child sex gang operating in Portugal, linked to her disappearance.
It is believed he was pressed on what he knew about a spate of burglaries which occurred in the Praia da Luz resort where Madeleine’s family were staying when she went missing in 2007.
British detectives reckon the burglaries – believed to be carried out by a lone intruder between 2004 and 2010 – could be the key to finally solving what happened to her. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-quiz-british-4736648
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 14, 2015, 10:11:03 AM
But if that had happened, Madeleine wouldn't be missing, presumably.
Probably not, but the thought could have been in the mind of the abductor. Hence another reason for the open window.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 10:15:52 AM
I had wondered if a different child's passport had simply been stolen... I suppose that that might be feasible if the child had the same family name as one of the adults. Otherwise, presumably it would have had to have been forged.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 14, 2015, 10:16:15 AM
Probably not, but the thought could have been in the mind of the abductor. Hence another reason for the open window.
It is like the Judgement of Solomon ... the abductor wouldn't be too concerned about the welfare of the child, whereas the parent would be immobilised by the risk to the child.
Perhaps these guys had no intention of actually throwing the child ... they were warning the police off ??
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 14, 2015, 10:21:41 AM
I had wondered if a different child's passport had simply been stolen... I suppose that that might be feasible if the child had the same family name as one of the adults. Otherwise, presumably it would have had to have been forged.
I think it would be difficult for border patrols to differentiate between an illicit crossing with an abducted child and what looked like a family group if they had the requisite documentation (probably altered in some way), particularly if they had not been alerted to a kidnapped child.
It is certainly a probability in Madeleine's case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 14, 2015, 10:26:12 AM
So tiresome to have demands to cites for statements which are common knowledge to anyone discussing Madeleine's case ... enjoy
Now do require a cite to what has been printed in MSM about this man's alleged travels with scant regard for borders?
Madeleine McCann: Cops quiz British paedophile who was in the Algarve when Maddie vanished
22:46, 2 December 2014 By Adam Aspinall
Officers from Scotland Yard flew to Malta to question Roderick MacDonald, 77, in his prison cell in a bid to uncover any vital clues British police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have quizzed a convicted paedophile said to have been in the Algarve when she vanished.
Officers from Scotland Yard flew to Malta to question Roderick MacDonald, 77, in his prison cell in a bid to uncover any vital clues about who snatched little Madeleine, aged three at the time.
MacDonald was questioned about his alleged connection to a child sex gang operating in Portugal, linked to her disappearance.
It is believed he was pressed on what he knew about a spate of burglaries which occurred in the Praia da Luz resort where Madeleine’s family were staying when she went missing in 2007.
British detectives reckon the burglaries – believed to be carried out by a lone intruder between 2004 and 2010 – could be the key to finally solving what happened to her. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-quiz-british-4736648
Yep as I thought.
You do know don't you Brietta that OG is only a small part of the Metropolitan Police, don't you ? Now here's a revelation, not all investigations carried out by SY into paedophile activity, unlike those carried out by OG, has anything to do with the McCann case.
There is not one direct quote from SY or OG verifying any of the above story and, indeed, if any of it was true we may quite rightly assume that OG were leaking like a sieve, a misdemeanour you lambast the PJ for at every possible opportunity.
So Brietta time to put up or.....well you know the rest ! Do you have a direct quote from OG verifying they have questioned Roderick McDonald in relation to the McCann case because if not I think it will be safe to assume that he has nothing to do with it and you are simply shoehorning him into the case to suit your own agenda.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 14, 2015, 10:28:38 AM
I think it would be difficult for border patrols to differentiate between an illicit crossing with an abducted child and what looked like a family group if they had the requisite documentation (probably altered in some way), particularly if they had not been alerted to a kidnapped child.
It is certainly a probability in Madeleine's case.
You mean a possibility don't you Brietta ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 14, 2015, 10:38:47 AM
It is quite puzzling: why would French people go outside of EU into a country with a border and steal a child there?
The police officer also said that as they chased the kidnappers car they noticed them trying to drop the child through the window but the police acted quickly to avoid this..
They later tried to break the police barrier and drive through it, by doing this they would enter the EU - i.e. get to Belgrade-Zagreb motorway and soon after that they would be in Austria. Luckily they got caught!
Some government official appeared on their TV saying their run the checks with their French colleagues and the gang (trio) is already known to the French police.
Serbian media named the trio - but they use write as they speak so not sure what the actual names would be. (Mišel Sebastijan (46), Sandrin Goren (40) i Kristel Eje (26) )
which I think in French might be be written as: male Michel Branko (or Branco?) Sebastian (or Sebastien?) age 46, female Sandrin Goren, age 40 (previously reported as Sabrina Gorin) and female Christel Eie, age 26..
They already had a prepared passport of a child of similar appearance with them!
These people were caught trying to cross the border with EU but if there was no border like in Madeleine's case then it would be much harder to catch them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 14, 2015, 10:53:47 AM
Some government official appeared on their TV saying their run the checks with their French colleagues and the gang (trio) is already known to the French police.
Serbian media named the trio - but they use write as they speak so not sure what the actual names would be. (Mišel Sebastijan (46), Sandrin Goren (40) i Kristel Eje (26) )
which I think in French might be be written as: male Michel Branko (or Branco?) Sebastian (or Sebastien?) age 46, female Sandrin Goren, age 40 (previously reported as Sabrina Gorin) and female Christel Eie, age 26..
They already had a prepared passport of a child of similar appearance with them!
These people were caught trying to cross the border with EU but if there was no border like in Madeleine's case then it would be much harder to catch them.
Would it be possible to keep us updated VIXTE, without your post we wouldn't have known about this as it doesn't seem to have been generally picked up yet. thankyou
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 10:55:02 AM
Some government official appeared on their TV saying their run the checks with their French colleagues and the gang (trio) is already known to the French police.
Serbian media named the trio - but they use write as they speak so not sure what the actual names would be. (Mišel Sebastijan (46), Sandrin Goren (40) i Kristel Eje (26) )
which I think in French might be be written as: male Michel Branko (or Branco?) Sebastian (or Sebastien?) age 46, female Sandrin Goren, age 40 (previously reported as Sabrina Gorin) and female Christel Eie, age 26..
They already had a prepared passport of a child of similar appearance with them!
These people were caught trying to cross the border with EU but if there was no border like in Madeleine's case then it would be much harder to catch them.
The saga is appearing in the French media, but they only identify the trio by their initials. http://www.midilibre.fr/2015/03/14/serbie-enlevement-d-un-enfant-par-trois-francais-la-voiture-serait-du-gard,1135601.php
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 14, 2015, 10:55:18 AM
Some government official appeared on their TV saying their run the checks with their French colleagues and the gang (trio) is already known to the French police.
Serbian media named the trio - but they use write as they speak so not sure what the actual names would be. (Mišel Sebastijan (46), Sandrin Goren (40) i Kristel Eje (26) )
which I think in French might be be written as: male Michel Branko (or Branco?) Sebastian (or Sebastien?) age 46, female Sandrin Goren, age 40 (previously reported as Sabrina Gorin) and female Christel Eie, age 26..
They already had a prepared passport of a child of similar appearance with them!
These people were caught trying to cross the border with EU but if there was no border like in Madeleine's case then it would be much harder to catch them.
But of course these folks had a car, an accessorie that the alleged abductor in Madeleine's case, whether you go with Tannerman or Smithman, seemed not to posess.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 14, 2015, 10:58:09 AM
I had wondered if a different child's passport had simply been stolen... I suppose that that might be feasible if the child had the same family name as one of the adults. Otherwise, presumably it would have had to have been forged.
If these crimes are planned, which I think they are, then they search Death Records. It isn't difficult to get a passport in these circumstances.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 14, 2015, 11:00:17 AM
But of course these folks had a car, an accessorie that the alleged abductor in Madeleine's case, whether you go with Tannerman or Smithman, seemed not to posess.
There is a report these people in Serbia also changed the car number plates before attempting to cross the border.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 14, 2015, 11:03:39 AM
The saga is appearing in the French media, but they only identify the trio by their initials. http://www.midilibre.fr/2015/03/14/serbie-enlevement-d-un-enfant-par-trois-francais-la-voiture-serait-du-gard,1135601.php
There was a report they speak Spanish amongst them.. Here is the photo of the guy http://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/1476665-ovo-je-branko-sebastijan-otmicar-male-mase-video
He does remind me of someone related to Madeleine's case but I cannot remember exactly who or what that was..maybe the Italian guy in France and his wife?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 11:07:42 AM
The car apparently has a Gard licence plate (Nîmes area, southern France), whether or not it's authentic remains to be seen.
But of course these folks had a car, an accessorie that the alleged abductor in Madeleine's case, whether you go with Tannerman or Smithman, seemed not to posess.
IMO it is very possible that Madeleine was removed by car.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 11:14:17 AM
There was a report they speak Spanish amongst them.. Here is the photo of the guy http://www.telegraf.rs/vesti/1476665-ovo-je-branko-sebastijan-otmicar-male-mase-video
He does remind me of someone related to Madeleine's case but I cannot remember exactly who or what that was..maybe the Italian guy in France and his wife?
Are you thinking of the Italian guy with a Portuguese wife... and some very murky story? Eventually arrested in Spain. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6251266.stm
I can't remember their names at the moment...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 14, 2015, 11:15:33 AM
IMO it is very possible that Madeleine was removed by car.
So where was the car ?
There was a car park outside the children's bedroom. Why not use it ? Why take the child through the streets with the risks that involved ? A stolen car could have been used and then burnt out when it was no longer needed so identification of the car would not be an issue.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 14, 2015, 11:19:22 AM
Are you thinking of the Italian guy with a Portuguese wife... and some very murky story? Eventually arrested in Spain. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6251266.stm
I can't remember their names at the moment...
Possibly. But to me this guys face (bent down and with glasses) rings some bells re Madeleine's case..
God knows what they real names are and where they are actually from!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 14, 2015, 11:19:29 AM
IMO it is very possible that Madeleine was removed by car.
All options have always been open as no-one who was not involved in the removal of Madeleine from the apartment knows exactly what happened. For all we know a vehicle could have been signalled to detour into the car park of block 5 for a pick up ... how long would that have taken? ... who would have seen, bearing in mind no witness saw a thing but for Jane Tanner?
It would explain the open window (so many explanations for that!) as the vehicle was watched for and the child handed over to an accomplice?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 14, 2015, 11:21:07 AM
There was a car park outside the children's bedroom. Why not use it ? Why take the child through the streets with the risks that involved ? A stolen car could have been used and then burnt out when it was no longer needed so identification of the car would not be an issue.
Thinking about PDL I suddenly get a feeling that these questions you've just raised are amongst the most important facts of Madeleine's case!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 11:23:30 AM
Possibly. But to me this guys face (bent down and with glasses) rings some bells re Madeleine's case..
God knows what they real names are and where they are actually from!
I don't think he looks like this Danilo Chemello guy: (http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2029879.ece/alternates/s615/%C2%A3%C2%A3%C2%A3Fee-for-use-Danilo-Chemello.jpg)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 14, 2015, 11:40:05 AM
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BARRINGTON_NORTON.htm Although eliminated from the inquiry that doesn't mean that a person who resembled him might not have been in the vicinity at the time ... eight years down the line I think there is a passing resemblance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2015, 12:29:02 PM
All options have always been open as no-one who was not involved in the removal of Madeleine from the apartment knows exactly what happened. For all we know a vehicle could have been signalled to detour into the car park of block 5 for a pick up ... how long would that have taken? ... who would have seen, bearing in mind no witness saw a thing but for Jane Tanner?
It would explain the open window (so many explanations for that!) as the vehicle was watched for and the child handed over to an accomplice?
The alleged open window. Seen only by the McCanns and Amy Tierney. Amy also saw Fiona Payne in the apartment who did not see the open window. So, seen only by the McCanns. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 14, 2015, 12:35:52 PM
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BARRINGTON_NORTON.htm Although eliminated from the inquiry that doesn't mean that a person who resembled him might not have been in the vicinity at the time ... eight years down the line I think there is a passing resemblance.
Of course you do 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 14, 2015, 12:38:53 PM
The alleged open window. Seen only by the McCanns and Amy Tierney. Amy also saw Fiona Payne in the apartment who did not see the open window. So, seen only by the McCanns. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm
Amy Tierny did see the window open. Or all three of them were lying. Is that what you are saying?
But why lie about a window when there were at least two other exits from the appartment. A bit pointless, don't you think?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
Amy Tierny did see the window open. Or all three of them were lying. Is that what you are saying?
But why lie about a window when there were at least two other exits from the appartment. A bit pointless, don't you think?
Amy Tierney said she saw the open window/shutters. She also said Fiona Payne was there when she saw them. Fiona Payne said she didn't see any open window/shutters. Someone's lying then. As to who and why, I have no idea.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on March 14, 2015, 01:33:09 PM
Amy Tierney said she saw the open window/shutters. She also said Fiona Payne was there when she saw them. Fiona Payne said she didn't see any open window/shutters. Someone's lying then. As to who and why, I have no idea.
Why does anyone have to be lying? No-one was joined at the hip or rooted to the spot. It is possible that in such a traumatic situation different people saw and/or remembered different things. IMO Fiona may have been more concerned about Kate and Madeleine than how the room looked. Things changed rapidly from second to second - with everyone having just been catapulted from having a pleasant relaxing meal one minute to absolute shock and horror - the next.
If it was part of a plan for Kate and Gerry to have the police believe they found the windows/shutters had been opened by an intruder - then IMO they would have made damn sure they were still open when they did arrive - and not immediately close them to check whether they could be opened from the outside. That makes no sense.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 14, 2015, 01:47:04 PM
Amy Tierney said she saw the open window/shutters. She also said Fiona Payne was there when she saw them. Fiona Payne said she didn't see any open window/shutters. Someone's lying then. As to who and why, I have no idea.
So where were Fiona Payne and Amy Tierny in relation to the children's bedroom? Perhaps Fiona was more concentrated on Kate and her distress.
No one can know who didn't see what, or why they didn't see something. The fact that some did and some didn't doesn't make anyone a liar.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 14, 2015, 02:06:38 PM
Amy Tierney said she saw the open window/shutters. She also said Fiona Payne was there when she saw them. Fiona Payne said she didn't see any open window/shutters. Someone's lying then. As to who and why, I have no idea.
What a very simplistic observation, no allowance whatsoever for mistaken recall there is there? Did all these enormous whoppers get recorded in the PT AG's Final Report as evidence of some terrible plot?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 14, 2015, 02:13:33 PM
Some people don't know the difference between a lie and an observation.
Just because they call it a lie doesn't make it a lie.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 14, 2015, 02:43:19 PM
Some people don't know the difference between a lie and an observation.
Just because they call it a lie doesn't make it a lie.
I guess that the 50% of people who saw a white dress with gold trim, rather than a blue dress with black trim were liars rather than mistaken, in the over-simplistic world of the "sceptic".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2015, 02:46:50 PM
So where were Fiona Payne and Amy Tierny in relation to the children's bedroom? Perhaps Fiona was more concentrated on Kate and her distress.
No one can know who didn't see what, or why they didn't see something. The fact that some did and some didn't doesn't make anyone a liar.
Very clear statements were made and signed as correct. That's how we know who saw what. Can statements given to the police be classed as 'observations?;
A witness statement is your written or video recorded account of what happened to you. A police officer will ask you questions and write down what you have said. You will be asked to read it and sign it with your name. When you sign a witness statement you are saying that you agree the statement is a true account of your experience. Your witness statement may be used as evidence in court. http://www.cps.gov.uk/victims_witnesses/reporting_a_crime/telling_police.html
Fiona Payne's statement; And by that point Kate was already saying that the, what she'd found when she'd gone back, which was that the, she'd found the window open and the shutter open and she was convinced at that point that somebody had taken, taken Madeleine and that's what she was telling me and I was like 'They can't have done. They can't have done this', you know. And I looked, I looked throughout the whole apartment and I looked in all the cupboards, under the drawers, under the beds, behind the curtains, everywhere, erm, just, you know, trying to, knowing it had already been done, but you just do. Erm, tut, I looked, when I went into the room that Madeleine was sleeping in, the room was dark, Madeleine, erm, Madeleine's bed was sort of folded back, the sheets, quite kind of neatly really, erm, Sean and Amelie were fast asleep in their cots, they didn't stir, you know, I was opening the cupboards in the room and moving around the room, they didn't stir at all, which that was, that was odd. Erm, we were trying to ascertain whether Madeleine could have got out, and I've already said earlier the shutters were very heavy, and I was almost trying to convince Kate that she could have opened the shutter and climbed out, although knowing that wasn't a likely thing, but at that point we were just trying to pacify Kate in that Madeleine was going to be alright. Erm, and I, I think I touched the webbing in that room, but because Sean and Amelie were asleep, I didn't actually open the shutter in that room, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
Amy Tierney's statement;
She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.
The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine's shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.
However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.
In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn't know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm
The PJ Final Report;
The situation that concerns the window of the bedroom where MADELEINE slept, together with the twins, which was open, according to KATE. It would be necessary to clarify whether there was a draft, due to the fact that movement of the curtains and pressure under the bedroom door are mentioned, which would eventually be clarified through the reconstitution.
. The establishing of a timeline and of the effective checking of the minors that were left alone inside the apartments, given the fact that, believing that said checking was as tight as the witnesses and the arguidos describe it, it would be, to say the least, very difficult that the conditions were reunited for the introduction of an abductor in the residence and the posterior exit of said individual, with the child, namely through a window with little space. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm
I do not consider my observations to be simplistic. They are all based on people's statements which I have taken the trouble to read and quote from.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 14, 2015, 02:59:32 PM
Some people don't know the difference between a lie and an observation.
Just because they call it a lie doesn't make it a lie.
Truth can mean different things to different people. Two people can experience or observe an event but report two different accounts of it. Each will consider their account to be truthful but to the other observer that account might not represent the truth.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 14, 2015, 03:09:37 PM
Truth can mean different things to different people. Two people can experience or observe an event but report two different accounts of it. Each will consider their account to be truthful but to the other observer that account might not represent the truth.
But not Lies, in fact. These "Lying" accusations really bother me. There is no proof that anyone was actually lying.
And such an accusation is bordering on Libel.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 14, 2015, 03:17:56 PM
But not Lies, in fact. These "Lying" accusations really bother me. There is no proof that anyone was actually lying.
And such an accusation is bordering on Libel.
I agree Eleanor and any reference to a named person lying should be edited or removed.
The general comment above to the effect that, "someone's lying" is a classic example of what I already posted. In the example given, witnesses saw different things at different times. Had they all seen the same thing at exactly the same time then we would expect their reports to match.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 14, 2015, 03:23:59 PM
Portugal among EU states where civil and commercial litigation takes longest
(http://i.imgur.com/IHi1qHi.jpg?1)
12 March 2015
The European Commission this week released the 2015 EU Justice Scoreboard, which gives an overview of the quality, independence and efficiency of the justice systems of member states. According to the report, Portugal ranks poorly in a number of areas surveyed, and is only better than a handful of European countries when solving civil and commercial legal cases.
While Portugal continues to record a modest performance in terms of the efficiency of its justice system, where it has actually dropped down the rankings, justice here reported a good showing in terms of internet access by ordinary citizens, alternative methods of resolving litigation and the overall perception of judicial independence.
According to the EU’s Justice Scoreboard, the average duration of a civil or commercial case to reach judgment took an average of 386 days in 2013, up from the 369 days in 2012. This result places in the sixth worst position out of the list of 23 EU member states researched.
The quickest resolution of cases occurs in Luxembourg, where it takes just 53 days, while one in Malta takes more than two years (750 days).
The EU Justice Scoreboard is an information tool aiming to assist member states to achieve more effective justice by providing objective, reliable and comparable data on their civil, commercial and administrative justice systems.
“An effective justice system is a fundamental pillar of every democracy. Justice reforms play a key role in strengthening the Union’s common values and creating the investment friendly environment that we need for sustainable growth,” said Vera Jourová, EU Commissioner for Justice, Consumers and Gender Equality.
Together with individual country assessments, the EU Justice Scoreboard contributes to identifying possible shortcomings and encouraging Member States to carry out, where necessary, structural reforms in the area of justice.
I agree Eleanor and any reference to a named person lying should be edited or removed.
The general comment above to the effect that, "someone's lying" is a classic example of what I already posted. In the example given, witnesses saw different things at different times. Had they all seen the same thing at exactly the same time then we would expect their reports to match.
Thank you, John. I shan't feel quite so bad about removing or editing these comments in future.
Hopefully the same applies to Posters accusing other Posters of lying. But I expect that it does.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 14, 2015, 03:27:13 PM
Thank you, John. I shan't feel quite so bad about removing or editing these comments in future.
Hopefully the same applies to Posters accusing other Posters of lying. But I expect that it does.
It does. Several threads are in the process of being edited at the moment in accordance with the rules.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2015, 03:53:08 PM
I seem to have made a mistake in a post. To clarify I would like to say that in my opinion someone seems to have been mistaken about the window/shutters in G5A on 3rd May. Two people searched the room that evening but only one of them noticed that the window and shutters were open.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 04:24:57 PM
Portugal among EU states where civil and commercial litigation takes longest
(http://i.imgur.com/IHi1qHi.jpg?1)
12 March 2015
The European Commission this week released the 2015 EU Justice Scoreboard, which gives an overview of the quality, independence and efficiency of the justice systems of member states. According to the report, Portugal ranks poorly in a number of areas surveyed, and is only better than a handful of European countries when solving civil and commercial legal cases.
While Portugal continues to record a modest performance in terms of the efficiency of its justice system, where it has actually dropped down the rankings, justice here reported a good showing in terms of internet access by ordinary citizens, alternative methods of resolving litigation and the overall perception of judicial independence.
According to the EU’s Justice Scoreboard, the average duration of a civil or commercial case to reach judgment took an average of 386 days in 2013, up from the 369 days in 2012. This result places in the sixth worst position out of the list of 23 EU member states researched.
The quickest resolution of cases occurs in Luxembourg, where it takes just 53 days, while one in Malta takes more than two years (750 days).
The EU Justice Scoreboard is an information tool aiming to assist member states to achieve more effective justice by providing objective, reliable and comparable data on their civil, commercial and administrative justice systems.
“An effective justice system is a fundamental pillar of every democracy. Justice reforms play a key role in strengthening the Union’s common values and creating the investment friendly environment that we need for sustainable growth,” said Vera Jourová, EU Commissioner for Justice, Consumers and Gender Equality.
Together with individual country assessments, the EU Justice Scoreboard contributes to identifying possible shortcomings and encouraging Member States to carry out, where necessary, structural reforms in the area of justice.
Well, they seem to be making efforts to improve, even though the process has had a number of hiccups. I posted an article or survey some time ago about how the new democracy brought with it a flood of civil suits, leading to a massive backlog as the structures and systems weren't in place to deal with them all.
It's perhaps too easy to forget how young this democracy actually is. Having a shiny new Constitution and evolving laws is great, but having the resources (including of the human variety) takes time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 14, 2015, 04:28:15 PM
Some government official appeared on their TV saying their run the checks with their French colleagues and the gang (trio) is already known to the French police.
Serbian media named the trio - but they use write as they speak so not sure what the actual names would be. (Mišel Sebastijan (46), Sandrin Goren (40) i Kristel Eje (26) )
which I think in French might be be written as: male Michel Branko (or Branco?) Sebastian (or Sebastien?) age 46, female Sandrin Goren, age 40 (previously reported as Sabrina Gorin) and female Christel Eie, age 26..
They already had a prepared passport of a child of similar appearance with them!
These people were caught trying to cross the border with EU but if there was no border like in Madeleine's case then it would be much harder to catch them.
If Vixte pops back in here... I was hunting for a different saga that this reminded me of.
Very clear statements were made and signed as correct. That's how we know who saw what. Can statements given to the police be classed as 'observations?;
A witness statement is your written or video recorded account of what happened to you. A police officer will ask you questions and write down what you have said. You will be asked to read it and sign it with your name. When you sign a witness statement you are saying that you agree the statement is a true account of your experience. Your witness statement may be used as evidence in court. http://www.cps.gov.uk/victims_witnesses/reporting_a_crime/telling_police.html
Fiona Payne's statement; And by that point Kate was already saying that the, what she'd found when she'd gone back, which was that the, she'd found the window open and the shutter open and she was convinced at that point that somebody had taken, taken Madeleine and that's what she was telling me and I was like 'They can't have done. They can't have done this', you know. And I looked, I looked throughout the whole apartment and I looked in all the cupboards, under the drawers, under the beds, behind the curtains, everywhere, erm, just, you know, trying to, knowing it had already been done, but you just do. Erm, tut, I looked, when I went into the room that Madeleine was sleeping in, the room was dark, Madeleine, erm, Madeleine's bed was sort of folded back, the sheets, quite kind of neatly really, erm, Sean and Amelie were fast asleep in their cots, they didn't stir, you know, I was opening the cupboards in the room and moving around the room, they didn't stir at all, which that was, that was odd. Erm, we were trying to ascertain whether Madeleine could have got out, and I've already said earlier the shutters were very heavy, and I was almost trying to convince Kate that she could have opened the shutter and climbed out, although knowing that wasn't a likely thing, but at that point we were just trying to pacify Kate in that Madeleine was going to be alright. Erm, and I, I think I touched the webbing in that room, but because Sean and Amelie were asleep, I didn't actually open the shutter in that room, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
Amy Tierney's statement;
She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.
The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine's shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.
However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.
In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn't know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/AMY-ELLEN-TIERNEY.htm
The PJ Final Report;
The situation that concerns the window of the bedroom where MADELEINE slept, together with the twins, which was open, according to KATE. It would be necessary to clarify whether there was a draft, due to the fact that movement of the curtains and pressure under the bedroom door are mentioned, which would eventually be clarified through the reconstitution.
. The establishing of a timeline and of the effective checking of the minors that were left alone inside the apartments, given the fact that, believing that said checking was as tight as the witnesses and the arguidos describe it, it would be, to say the least, very difficult that the conditions were reunited for the introduction of an abductor in the residence and the posterior exit of said individual, with the child, namely through a window with little space. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm
I do not consider my observations to be simplistic. They are all based on people's statements which I have taken the trouble to read and quote from.
I think you will find that none of the witnesses statements could be used in court as they were not cautiioned.....made arguuido This may mean the mccanns were not as carrful as they should have been with the translation
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2015, 07:38:43 PM
I think you will find that none of the witnesses statements could be used in court as they were not cautiioned.....made arguuido This may mean the mccanns were not as carrful as they should have been with the translation
I don't know anything about Portugese law. Witness statements can be used in court in the UK if both prosecution and defense agree and the perjury statement has been included. Statements taken by Leicester Police had it. Only suspects are cautioned. I don't know what you mean about the mccanns translation ? An example of declaration on a witness statement, which when signed, may be used in a perjury case:-
This statement, consisting of five pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have willfully states in it anything I know to be false or do not believe to be true. (Perjury statement)
An example of this statement on a witnesses statement:- http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
Under s9 CJA the contents of a written statement will be admissible, without the witness attending court to give oral evidence, if the following conditions are satisfied: the statement purports to be signed by the maker; the statement contains a declaration by the maker that it is true to the best of his/her knowledge and belief and that it was made knowing that, if it were tendered in evidence, the maker would be liable to prosecution if s/he wilfully stated in it anything which he knew to be false or did not believe to be true (known as a `perjury declaration'); a copy of the statement is served on the other parties before the hearing where the statement is tendered in evidence; and none of the other parties object to the statement being tendered in evidence. Part 27 of the Criminal Procedure Rules should be also complied with2. http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/investigation/witness-witness.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 14, 2015, 07:46:04 PM
I don't know anything about Portugese law. Witness statements can be used in court in the UK if both prosecution and defense agree and the perjury statement has been included. Statements taken by Leicester Police had it. Only suspects are cautioned. I don't know what you mean about the mccanns translation ? This statement, consisting of five pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that, if it is tendered in evidence, I shall be liable to prosecution if I have willfully states in it anything I know to be false or do not believe to be true. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
Under s9 CJA the contents of a written statement will be admissible, without the witness attending court to give oral evidence, if the following conditions are satisfied: the statement purports to be signed by the maker; the statement contains a declaration by the maker that it is true to the best of his/her knowledge and belief and that it was made knowing that, if it were tendered in evidence, the maker would be liable to prosecution if s/he wilfully stated in it anything which he knew to be false or did not believe to be true (known as a `perjury declaration'); a copy of the statement is served on the other parties before the hearing where the statement is tendered in evidence; and none of the other parties object to the statement being tendered in evidence. Part 27 of the Criminal Procedure Rules should be also complied with2. http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/investigation/witness-witness.htm
You can not accuse someone of perjury......Say what you have to say in reference to this statement, but not accusation of a crime
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2015, 08:09:32 PM
You can not accuse someone of perjury......Say what you have to say in reference to this statement, but not accusation of a crime
What? I have accused no one of perjury!
Davel said witness statements couldn't be used in court. I said I don't know about Portugese law, but they could be used in UK if they included the perjury statement. I then included the perjury statement from Jeremy Watkins rogatory statement as an example. I also included information on UK statements being used in court.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 14, 2015, 08:13:02 PM
Davel said witness statements couldn't be used in court. I said I don't know about Portugese law, but they could be used in UK if they included the perjury statement. I then included the perjury statement from Jeremy Watkins rogatory statement as an example. I also included information on UK statements being used in court.
I apologize sincerely, for my mistake G, I thought it said Jeremy Wilkins. I will replace it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2015, 08:20:01 PM
Complete confusion G. However although I can now see what you were trying to say. It made it look like Jeremy had made a P statement as you had above his statement the words "Perjury Statement;". Please be careful as such things can be misread.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 14, 2015, 08:46:09 PM
Davel said witness statements couldn't be used in court. I said I don't know about Portugese law, but they could be used in UK if they included the perjury statement. I then included the perjury statement from Jeremy Watkins rogatory statement as an example. I also included information on UK statements being used in court.
None of the statements made by the McCanns ...recorded in Portuguese and signed by them could be used in court against them....that's what the arguido status is about
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2015, 09:56:17 PM
None of the statements made by the McCanns ...recorded in Portuguese and signed by them could be used in court against them....that's what the arguido status is about
I have read (only in Wikipedia) that statements made by arguidos are similar to those made under caution to police in England and Wales. In particular they allow the suspect to have a lawyer with them and allow them to remain silent. Witnesses in Portugal, it says, are not allowed to remain silent. Do you have a link which says arguido statements can't be used in court? Gerald McCann made a statement as an arguido, Kate remained silent. I assume their earlier statements are witness statements? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguido
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 14, 2015, 10:08:03 PM
I have read (only in Wikipedia) that statements made by arguidos are similar to those made under caution to police in England and Wales. In particular they allow the suspect to have a lawyer with them and allow them to remain silent. Witnesses in Portugal, it says, are not allowed to remain silent. Do you have a link which says arguido statements can't be used in court? Gerald McCann made a statement as an arguido, Kate remained silent. I assume their earlier statements are witness statements? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arguido
arguido statements can be used as evidence against the suspect in court...that's the whole point...witnesses can choose to remain silent...they just request arguido status..The point I am making is that all the initial statements could not be used against the tapas as they had not been made arguido..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 14, 2015, 10:32:06 PM
arguido statements can be used as evidence against the suspect in court...that's the whole point...witnesses can choose to remain silent...they just request arguido status..The point I am making is that all the initial statements could not be used against the tapas as they had not been made arguido..
I'm really sorry if I'm being stupid, davel, but are you saying that none of the statements collected by the PJ could be used as evidence in a court case against someone?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 14, 2015, 10:34:32 PM
I'm really sorry if I'm being stupid, davel, but are you saying that none of the statements collected by the PJ could be used as evidence in a court case against someone?
You are not being stupid...the witness statements could be used in court against someone...but not the person making the statement unless they had been made arguido...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 14, 2015, 10:51:05 PM
So… You can request arquido status for your own protection ie: right not to answer questions and have a lawyer present, but if you go to trial, that statement can be used against you. or You can remain a witness and answer all questions, but your statement can not be used against you in court. or If you are made arquido because there is evidence that you may be implicated in the crime, you have the same rights as a voluntary Arquido.
No win solution really….Or is it a No lose solution. More about it on this thread……. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5673.msg204310#msg204310
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 14, 2015, 10:55:33 PM
So… You can request arquido status for your own protection ie: right not to answer questions and have a lawyer present, but if you go to trial, that statement can be used against you. or You can remain a witness and answer all questions, but your statement can not be used against you in court. or If you are made arquido because there is evidence that you may be implicated in the crime, you have the same rights as a voluntary Arquido.
No win solution really….Or is it a No lose solution. More about it on this thread……. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5673.msg204310#msg204310
That seems about it...arguido status is the same as being cautioned...if you are not cautioned..or arguido...nothing you say can be used in evidence against you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 14, 2015, 11:03:21 PM
That seems about it...arguido status is the same as being cautioned...if you are not cautioned..or arguido...nothing you say can be used in evidence against you
The funny thing about it is that an arquido does not have to answer questions, which means there would be no statement to use against him.
In a case recently, a lawyer advised an arquido to answer no questions put to him, which meant just that....No statement. This meant that evidence could only be used. I believe he was found guilty on the evidence of witnesses.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on March 15, 2015, 09:58:53 AM
That seems about it...arguido status is the same as being cautioned...if you are not cautioned..or arguido...nothing you say can be used in evidence against you
... Though all witness statements can be used against others.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 15, 2015, 01:43:28 PM
BELGRADE – Three arrested kidnappers told the police that the motive for kidnapping of the two-year-old girl Masa was supposedly obtain custody over an almost identical child that lives in France, and whose mother is one of the kidnappers, Serbian media reported.
“Three kidnappers who were arrested for kidnapping Masa are members of the same family. Misel Sebastian and his wife Sandrin Goren went to Serbia together with their daughter Kristel Etje to kidnap the girl, who incredibly looks like Kristel’s child,” media reports.
Kidnappers’ intention, as they claim, was to kidnap the girl who looks like the daughter Kristel (26) really does have in France. Masa was supposed to serve them in a lawsuit Kristel filed against her husband, with the goal to prove that the daughter they have is not his,” the police said.
Kidnappers planned to take Masa out of Serbia using the passport of Kristel’s real daughter. Then they planned to take Masa to the court, as Kristela’s daughter, and to have DNA taken from her to be tested to prove that she is not the daughter of Kristel’s husband. In that way, Kristela would have her child only to herself, and they counted that the fraud could have worked because Kristel’s husband has seen his daughter only once.
“Kidnappers claim that they planned to return Masa to Serbia after the fraud is over,” said the police.
The Prosecutor’s Office says that they are still waiting for information from their counterparts in France.
My reading of their 'story' is that they came prepared to abduct a child.
Not just any child.
A child who was the same age as the child in the passport and a child who was similar enough to the child in the passport photograph to be able to be mistaken for her.
Did they 'chance' upon a child who precisely fitted the bill?
Or did they or an accomplice actively search her out and kidnapped her at the first opportunity?
I have no idea why it was done in such a reckless manner in broad daylight ... obviously they didn't expect the police response to be as immediate as it was.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 15, 2015, 10:45:28 PM
Some more news regarding the kidnapping of the 2 years old girl in Serbia.
Their papers report on the reasons for kidnapping and this is the most bizarre one I've heard in all these years:
Apparently the youngest of the French kidnappers has a 'same' looking daughter and soon has to go to a DNA test the father of the child wants her to perform.
Now, she was looking for a similar child and they used some face recognitions software and through Facebook they found this girl in Serbia whose face matched the face of her daughter. Then they went to Serbia and they got the girl..
They are also saying that they would return the girl when the DNA in question has been performed!
Some more news regarding the kidnapping of the 2 years old girl in Serbia.
Their papers report on the reasons for kidnapping and this is the most bizarre one I've heard in all these years:
Apparently the youngest of the French kidnappers has a 'same' looking daughter and soon has to go to a DNA test the father of the child wants her to perform.
Now, she was looking for a similar child and they used some face recognitions software and through Facebook they found this girl in Serbia whose face matched the face of her daughter. Then they went to Serbia and they got the girl..
They are also saying that they would return the girl when the DNA in question has been performed!
Thanks Misty. There is a thread on this parental custody story here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6123.msg225695#msg225695
So how would the get an address and name from facebook? face recognition? Risk returning her? It all sounds pretty far fetched to me
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 15, 2015, 11:02:07 PM
Thank you! But I am thinking about this face recognition software. It should be used in Madeleine's case too,,
Maybe it has and that's why she disappeared. However, I don't think many parents would post their children's photographs on the internet nowadays. The only face recognition that I have heard of is what my camera does......but that is any face. If they do have all this technical equipment to find a child to match a passport and they are the, known to the police in france group.....................................
ETA Found this face recognition. http://www.facefirst.com/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: VIXTE on March 16, 2015, 12:45:05 AM
Thank you Anna.
There has been few stories of stolen children being returned to their parents, or lost children being reunited with their parents: in India, France etc. It means nothing in this case but it does throw in a bit of positivity.
I wonder if it is possible that Madeleine's parents can run a similar software using the photos on Facebook.. if this is true what these French people are saying i.e. if this software can find the faces of all children with similar face to Madeleine's.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 16, 2015, 08:22:52 AM
The Topic is "The Latest News." Blacksmith doesn't feature. So if we could get back On Topic, please. Any more references will be deleted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 16, 2015, 08:59:26 AM
There has been few stories of stolen children being returned to their parents, or lost children being reunited with their parents: in India, France etc. It means nothing in this case but it does throw in a bit of positivity.
I wonder if it is possible that Madeleine's parents can run a similar software using the photos on Facebook.. if this is true what these French people are saying i.e. if this software can find the faces of all children with similar face to Madeleine's.
What image would be used for the process - one that is 7 or more years old, or an aged-progressed enhancement neither of which may be very accurate ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 16, 2015, 09:31:10 AM
I don't like any of the age enhanced depictions of Madeleine. But I suppose they have to try something.
I know that family photographs were used to input data for the age enhanced photographs of Madeleine. Now that they are a bit older, who would look more like her than her siblings?
Using them to produce an age enhanced image would imo be a terribly sensitive thing to contemplate and perhaps unacceptable to the family if the slightest risk was assessed ... and we know Madeleine's siblings have been targeted in the past.
In fact it may be a reason why we have not had constant image progression updates and may not have another. Although as seen by people noticing a Madeleine 'lookalike' at an International football match ... she has certainly not been forgotten.
The recent South African case was solved because family likeness with a sibling was noticed. This happened in a closed environment and involved very few people with neither young person identifiable to a wider audience.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 16, 2015, 12:37:43 PM
Well,well,well.
The IPCC is going to investigate claims that the Metropolitan Police, including I believe, members of SY, are investigating police corruption, including claims, members 'covered up child sex offenses' by politicians, police officers,etc.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 16, 2015, 12:43:59 PM
The IPCC is going to investigate claims that the Metropolitan Police, including I believe, members of SY, are investigating police corruption, including claims, members 'covered up child sex offenses' by politicians, police officers,etc.
Are you referring to this, Stephen? https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/ipcc-investigate-allegations-historic-corruption-relating-child-sexual-abuse-metropolitan
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 16, 2015, 12:45:10 PM
I think its well recognised that the Metropolitan Police was as corrupt as they came, but is supposed to have improved since then.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 16, 2015, 12:49:00 PM
Are you referring to this, Stephen? https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/ipcc-investigate-allegations-historic-corruption-relating-child-sexual-abuse-metropolitan
Thank you Anna.
That is precisely what I was referring to.
Thank you for the link.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 16, 2015, 12:54:39 PM
It is more than time the perpetrators of these crimes were brought to justice, not least of all for the sake of the surviving victims.
It may be possible to find some, Stephen.... but from forty five years ago? I'm not so sure about that. I think abuse was taken less seriously back then....Very wrong, I know, but times have changed, thank goodness.
I think it more important, that the present day corruption and abusers be stopped and punished, before they do any more harm.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 16, 2015, 01:41:25 PM
BELGRADE – The special department of Belgrade’s high court has placed in detention for up to 30 days three French nationals suspected of kidnapping a two-year girl in Belgrade on Friday.
otmicar-branko-sebastijan
The two women and one man are facing charges of kidnapping, because they snatched the toddler in Belgrade’s Brace Jerkovic district around 1 p.m.
They tried to leave Serbia in their BMW car, but a timely police intervention prevented them from doing so.
The motives behind the kidnapping are still unknown, but if tried and convicted in Serbia as human traffickers following an investigation, the suspects could face up to 15 years in prison.
It may be possible to find some, Stephen.... but from forty five years ago? I'm not so sure about that. I think abuse was taken less seriously back then....Very wrong, I know, but times have changed, thank goodness.
I think it more important, that the present day corruption and abusers be stopped and punished, before they do any more harm.
I think the lack of cooperation with current inquiries by the Met (there are many already existing before the one announced today) shows the past and present are still unfortunately very much inextricably linked, Anna.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 16, 2015, 02:00:06 PM
I think the lack of cooperation with current inquiries by the Met (there are many already existing before the one announced today) shows the past and present are still unfortunately very much inextricably linked, Anna.
Very true, Lyall. Only the more recent investigations are being taken more seriously. IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 16, 2015, 02:08:41 PM
Very true, Lyall. Only the more recent investigations are being taken more seriously. IMO.
The investigations into the Met themselves? We shall see about that, but many think it will mostly all be buried again because we have no independent organisation capable of compelling the police to produce all evidence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 16, 2015, 02:18:21 PM
are the investigations complete....or are posters just assuming everything is true
The present investigations are not complete, Davel . I believe that some allegations, are possibly true, but until the investigation is complete, we can not know with any certainty what is or isn't true.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 16, 2015, 02:34:02 PM
The investigations into the Met themselves? We shall see about that, but many think it will mostly all be buried again because we have no independent organisation capable of compelling the police to produce all evidence.
Should we have? Is there some God given right? I don't think so. The UK Police will be called upon to explain themselves if anything ever comes to Court.
However, things might be different in Portugal. I become increasingly confused about that. But it would appear that The PJ are, or at least were a Law unto themselves.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 16, 2015, 02:36:31 PM
Excuse me. Could someone tell me what it is that we are discussing now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 16, 2015, 02:39:32 PM
Should we have? Is there some God given right? I don't think so. The UK Police will be called upon to explain themselves if anything ever comes to Court.
However, things might be different in Portugal. I become increasingly confused about that. But it would appear that The PJ are, or at least were a Law unto themselves.
Are you not realising by now we have no right to be moralising about other countries? Our institutions are as secretive as any. Especially the Metropolitan police.
I note in today's news that the Met themselves have referred this to the IPCC. What does that tell you?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on March 16, 2015, 02:41:20 PM
Are you not realising by now we have no right to be moralising about other countries? Our institutions are as secretive as any. Especially the Metropolitan police.
I note in today's news that the Met themselves have referred this to the IPCC. What does that tell you?
Oh, exactly. We shall indeed see about that. But since The McCanns are never going to be prosecuted for some imagined Crime, I am not entirely sure of what you are talking of. And quite probably neither are you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 16, 2015, 03:30:03 PM
Can we have any faith in the Metropolitan Police today?
IPCC to investigate allegations of historic corruption relating to child sexual abuse in the Metropolitan Police Mar 16, 2015 The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) is to investigate 14 referrals detailing allegations of corruption in the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) in relation to child sex offences dating from the 1970s to the 2000s.
The allegations, referred by the MPS, include:
Suppressing evidence; Hindering or halting investigations; Covering up the offences because of the involvement of members of parliament and police officers.
Parallel investigations being conducted by the MPS into the original allegations of child abuse and the new criminal investigations looking at alleged police corruption are closely linked and well underway. Therefore, after careful assessment, the IPCC will manage the investigations being conducted by the MPS’s Directorate of Professional Standards.
The IPCC Deputy Chair Sarah Green said:
“These allegations are of historic, high level corruption of the most serious nature.
“We will oversee the investigations and ensure that they meet the terms of reference that we will set. Allegations of this nature are of grave concern and I would like to reassure people of our absolute commitment to ensuring that the investigations are thorough and robust.”
The decision to conduct this as a managed investigation remains under review and can be amended at any time should it be deemed necessary.
Notes to Editors
The referrals are:
1) Allegation of a potential cover up around failures to properly investigate child sex abuse offences in South London and further information about criminal allegations against a politician being dropped.
2) Allegation that an investigation involving a proactive operation targeting young men in Dolphin Square, was stopped because officers were too near prominent people.
3) Allegation that a document was found at an address of a paedophile that originated from the Houses of Parliament listing a number of highly prominent individuals (MPs and senior police officers) as being involved in a paedophile ring and no further action was taken.
4) Allegation that an account provided by an abuse victim had been altered to omit the name of a senior politician.
5) Allegation that an investigation into a paedophile ring, in which a number of people were convicted, did not take action in relation to other more prominent individuals
6) Allegations that a politician had spoken with a senior MPS officer and demanded no action was taken regarding a paedophile ring and boys being procured and supplied to prominent persons in Westminster in the 1970s.
7) Allegation that in the late 1970s a surveillance operation that gathered intelligence on a politician being involved in paedophile activities was closed down by a senior MPS officer.
8) Allegation that a dossier of allegations against senior figures and politicians involved in child abuse were taken by Special Branch officers.
9) Allegations that a surveillance operation of a child abuse ring was subsequently shut down due to high profile people being involved.
10) Allegations of child sex abuse against a senior politician and a subsequent cover-up of his crimes.
11) Allegations that during a sexual abuse investigation a senior officer instructed the investigation be halted and that that order had come from ‘up high’ in the MPS.
12) Allegation of a conspiracy within the MPS to prevent the prosecution of a politician suspected of offences.
13) Allegations against a former senior MPS officer regarding child sex abuse and that further members of the establishment including judges were involved. It is claimed that no further action was taken.
14) Allegation that police officers sexually abused a boy and carried out surveillance on him. Further allegations of financial corruption in a London borough police force.
A further two referrals of a similar nature have been received from the MPS and are currently being assessed. https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/ipcc-investigate-allegations-historic-corruption-relating-child-sexual-abuse-metropolitan
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 16, 2015, 03:50:12 PM
Can we have any faith in the Metropolitan Police today?
IPCC to investigate allegations of historic corruption relating to child sexual abuse in the Metropolitan Police Mar 16, 2015 The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) is to investigate 14 referrals detailing allegations of corruption in the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) in relation to child sex offences dating from the 1970s to the 2000s.
The allegations, referred by the MPS, include:
Suppressing evidence; Hindering or halting investigations; Covering up the offences because of the involvement of members of parliament and police officers.
Parallel investigations being conducted by the MPS into the original allegations of child abuse and the new criminal investigations looking at alleged police corruption are closely linked and well underway. Therefore, after careful assessment, the IPCC will manage the investigations being conducted by the MPS’s Directorate of Professional Standards.
The IPCC Deputy Chair Sarah Green said:
“These allegations are of historic, high level corruption of the most serious nature.
“We will oversee the investigations and ensure that they meet the terms of reference that we will set. Allegations of this nature are of grave concern and I would like to reassure people of our absolute commitment to ensuring that the investigations are thorough and robust.”
The decision to conduct this as a managed investigation remains under review and can be amended at any time should it be deemed necessary.
Notes to Editors
The referrals are:
1) Allegation of a potential cover up around failures to properly investigate child sex abuse offences in South London and further information about criminal allegations against a politician being dropped.
2) Allegation that an investigation involving a proactive operation targeting young men in Dolphin Square, was stopped because officers were too near prominent people.
3) Allegation that a document was found at an address of a paedophile that originated from the Houses of Parliament listing a number of highly prominent individuals (MPs and senior police officers) as being involved in a paedophile ring and no further action was taken.
4) Allegation that an account provided by an abuse victim had been altered to omit the name of a senior politician.
5) Allegation that an investigation into a paedophile ring, in which a number of people were convicted, did not take action in relation to other more prominent individuals
6) Allegations that a politician had spoken with a senior MPS officer and demanded no action was taken regarding a paedophile ring and boys being procured and supplied to prominent persons in Westminster in the 1970s.
7) Allegation that in the late 1970s a surveillance operation that gathered intelligence on a politician being involved in paedophile activities was closed down by a senior MPS officer.
8) Allegation that a dossier of allegations against senior figures and politicians involved in child abuse were taken by Special Branch officers.
9) Allegations that a surveillance operation of a child abuse ring was subsequently shut down due to high profile people being involved.
10) Allegations of child sex abuse against a senior politician and a subsequent cover-up of his crimes.
11) Allegations that during a sexual abuse investigation a senior officer instructed the investigation be halted and that that order had come from ‘up high’ in the MPS.
12) Allegation of a conspiracy within the MPS to prevent the prosecution of a politician suspected of offences.
13) Allegations against a former senior MPS officer regarding child sex abuse and that further members of the establishment including judges were involved. It is claimed that no further action was taken.
14) Allegation that police officers sexually abused a boy and carried out surveillance on him. Further allegations of financial corruption in a London borough police force.
A further two referrals of a similar nature have been received from the MPS and are currently being assessed. https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/ipcc-investigate-allegations-historic-corruption-relating-child-sexual-abuse-metropolitan
We can but imagine what the faithful would say if this was a list of allegations against the PJ.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 16, 2015, 03:53:41 PM
So Dave, how does the Met compare to the PJ on corruption ?
It would be impossible to make a statistically valid comparison...but....When have uk police officers featured on the amnesty int website...have you ever seen a prisoner appearing in court in the uk looking like cipriano with the detectives involved saying "she fell down the stairs"...I think corruption runs very deep in Portugal...much worse than in the Uk and with the arrest of Christaveo more may come to light
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 16, 2015, 04:15:10 PM
It would be impossible to make a statistically valid comparison...but....When have uk police officers featured on the amnesty int website...have you ever seen a prisoner appearing in court in the uk looking like cipriano with the detectives involved saying "she fell down the stairs"...I think corruption runs very deep in Portugal...much worse than in the Uk and with the arrest of Christaveo more may come to light
Let's see what happens in the course of this investigation, on how many paedophiles are identified within the British establishment, and it would be an unwise move on your part to deny they exist.
As to corruption, you would be extremely naive to assume it doesn't exist over here as it does in Portugal.
Now can you give examples of pedophile cops in Portugal ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 16, 2015, 05:51:53 PM
Let's see what happens in the course of this investigation, on how many paedophiles are identified within the British establishment, and it would be an unwise move on your part to deny they exist.
As to corruption, you would be extremely naive to assume it doesn't exist over here as it does in Portugal.
Now can you give examples of pedophile cops in Portugal ?
if we look at the 14 cover up allegations with a critical eye we can see that this is not 14 different cover ups but most probably one...
I believe that the UK is far more open than Portugal...corruption does exist....but not on the scale seen in portugal
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 16, 2015, 05:57:39 PM
Portuguese American Journal...
In its latest international poll, Gallup has ranked the Portuguese government as one of the most corrupt in the world, based on the perceptions of the Portuguese people.
Of the 129 countries surveyed, Portugal is up there with the worst, though not quite as bad as the Czech Republic where 94% of respondents think corruption is widespread in their government, followed by Lithuania with 90%.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 16, 2015, 06:06:03 PM
What is Portugal's equivalent of the Independent Police Complaints Commission?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 16, 2015, 06:06:58 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 16, 2015, 06:14:13 PM
Printed 7th March;
Imagine you lived in a country which last year had 3,000 allegations of police corruption. Worse, imagine that of these 3,000 allegations only half of them were properly investigated — because for police officers in this country, corruption was becoming routine. Imagine that the police increasingly used their powers to crack down not on criminals but on anyone who dared speak out against them. What sort of a country is this? Well, it’s Britain I’m afraid — where what was once the finest, most honest service in the world is in danger of becoming rotten.
Some of this was revealed in a little-noticed report by HM Inspectorate of Constabulary, which went on to deliver some even more shocking news. Nearly half of 17,200 officers and staff surveyed said that if they discovered corruption among their colleagues and chose to report it, they didn’t believe their evidence would be treated in confidence and would fear ‘adverse consequences’. This appalling lack of protection for whistle-blowers — often amounting to persecution — has become commonplace throughout the public services and creates a climate in which dishonesty and malpractice flourish.
The second report, compiled by the Serious Organised Crime Agency, bears this out. It says there has been a sharp increase over the past five years in the number of police officers dealing heroin, cocaine and amphetamines and an equally startling rise in the number of officers abusing their power ‘for sexual gratification’ — in other words bullying or cajoling suspects, witnesses and even victims into having sex with them.
Just this week, in fact, it emerged that the Met suspended 73 coppers, community support officers and other staff on corruption charges in the past two years. They cited drug crimes, bribery, theft, fraud, sexual misconduct and — everybody’s favourite — un-authorised disclosure of information. Eleven were convicted in court, but what happened to the others? The Met spokesman said rather blandly that some were allowed to resign or retire (presumably with full pension rights) and some were dismissed. http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9461322/the-shocking-truth-about-police-corruption-in-britain/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 16, 2015, 06:39:26 PM
Imagine you lived in a country which last year had 3,000 allegations of police corruption. Worse, imagine that of these 3,000 allegations only half of them were properly investigated — because for police officers in this country, corruption was becoming routine. Imagine that the police increasingly used their powers to crack down not on criminals but on anyone who dared speak out against them. What sort of a country is this? Well, it’s Britain I’m afraid — where what was once the finest, most honest service in the world is in danger of becoming rotten.
Some of this was revealed in a little-noticed report by HM Inspectorate of Constabulary, which went on to deliver some even more shocking news. Nearly half of 17,200 officers and staff surveyed said that if they discovered corruption among their colleagues and chose to report it, they didn’t believe their evidence would be treated in confidence and would fear ‘adverse consequences’. This appalling lack of protection for whistle-blowers — often amounting to persecution — has become commonplace throughout the public services and creates a climate in which dishonesty and malpractice flourish.
The second report, compiled by the Serious Organised Crime Agency, bears this out. It says there has been a sharp increase over the past five years in the number of police officers dealing heroin, cocaine and amphetamines and an equally startling rise in the number of officers abusing their power ‘for sexual gratification’ — in other words bullying or cajoling suspects, witnesses and even victims into having sex with them.
Just this week, in fact, it emerged that the Met suspended 73 coppers, community support officers and other staff on corruption charges in the past two years. They cited drug crimes, bribery, theft, fraud, sexual misconduct and — everybody’s favourite — un-authorised disclosure of information. Eleven were convicted in court, but what happened to the others? The Met spokesman said rather blandly that some were allowed to resign or retire (presumably with full pension rights) and some were dismissed. http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9461322/the-shocking-truth-about-police-corruption-in-britain/
Interesting paragraph from that article:
Quote
The exposures of these corruption rackets had one thing in common — they were all revealed in the first place by the efforts of Britain’s free press. But these journalists could not have achieved all they did without the help of whistleblowers. Some of these were pornographers and criminals tired of being milked and intimidated, but others were rank and file police officers disgusted by the greed and criminality of so many of their peers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 16, 2015, 06:51:56 PM
BBC News London HomeWorldUKEnglandN. IrelandScotlandWalesBusinessPoliticsHealthEducationSci/EnvironmentTechnologyEntertainment & Arts
3 March 2015 Last updated at 08:28 Share this pageEmail Print Share this page
.Metropolitan Police corruption suspensions near 50 over two years By Josephine McDermott
BBC News
April Casburn Counter-terrorism officer April Casburn was convicted of misconduct in public office Continue reading the main story Related Stories Police corruption efforts criticised Police commander sacked over 'leak' Met 'deleted discrimination record'
Nearly 50 Metropolitan police officers and 26 staff members have been suspended for alleged corruption in the past two years, figures show.
Of the 47 officers, eleven were convicted, a Freedom of Information request revealed.
A total of 222 officers were suspended between 2012 and 2014, with alleged corruption cited as the main reason.
The Met said suspensions did not imply guilt, but all allegations were "taken extremely seriously".
The revelation follows a report by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) which warns "the threat to the Met of corrupt activity remains significant".
Officers dismissed
HMIC's January report said in the financial year from 1 April 2013 to 31 March 2014, the Met's Department of Professional Standards carried out 419 investigations into reports of behaviour that HMIC considered were likely to involve corruption.
They included allegations of drug-related offences, bribery, theft, fraud, dishonesty, sexual misconduct and unauthorised information disclosure.
These investigations resulted in 69 officers and staff members being dismissed, retiring or resigning, it said.
The Met's figures show in that year, 27 officers and 13 police staff members were suspended during corruption probes.
Police officer suspensions table Meanwhile, of a total of 222 officers suspended (from a workforce of 31,852) between April 2012 and March 2014, the second most common reason was neglect or failure in duty, 39 (18%), followed by assault, 25 (11%).
Seventy-seven percent of the 47 officers suspended over two years for alleged corruption were specials or constables.
But in January, former Ealing borough commander Det Ch Supt Andy Rowell was sacked for giving details of a "sensitive" police investigation to a journalist, though criminal proceedings against him were dropped.
And in 2013 Det Ch Insp April Casburn was jailed for 15 months for offering to sell information to the News of the World newspaper.
HMIC's report said while corruption in the force had previously involved "pockets of officers in specialist squads who had corrupt associations with criminals", today the Directorate of Professional Standards considers the biggest threat to be "exploitation of staff through inappropriate relationships with journalists, private investigators and criminals".
The report said: "Members of the Met workforce continue to be investigated, arrested and convicted for serious criminality and improper disclosure of information.
"The threat to the Met of corrupt activity remains significant."
line Recently dismissed officers:
Paul Randall, 49, given a suspended jail sentence for selling a story to The Sun about Naomi Campbell PC Gary Leaper, 42, commended in 2011, but sentenced to nine months for stealing £300 handed in to Fulham Police Station Westminster PC James Kiddie, 46, found guilty of common assault on a shoplifting suspect in Regent Street Det Con Ian Payne, 45, of Hammersmith and Fulham Police who admitted possession of cocaine Specialist Operations PC James Addison, 38, ordered to pay £5,000 for publishing 11 obscene videos Officers suspended and awaiting trial include:
Kingston PC Peter Ba Han, 52, charged with 15 counts of making an indecent image of a child. He appears at Southwark Crown Court in May Merton PC Irshad Kamal, 44, who appears at Southwark Crown Court on 19 March charged with sexually touching a woman aged 16 or over and harassment Safer Transport Sgt Demetrios Orros, 50, charged with three counts of sexually touching a woman aged 16 or over at a north London police station. His trial begins at Southwark Crown Court in May Officers suspended and convicted include:
PC Jack McGillivray, 24, a probationary officer, convicted of publishing an extreme pornographic image showing bestiality. He resigned PCSO Glynn Rogers, 52, who admitted stealing a wallet containing £2,450 which was handed in to him while on duty at Heathrow Airport Continue reading the main story Download Police Suspensions [2906kB] line PC Kiddie grabs Sarah Reed James Kiddie was already the subject of two previous substantiated complaints when he was convicted Complaints statistics show there were 12,502 allegations reported to the Independent Complaints Commission in 2012/13 and 11,542 in 2013/14.
The Criminal Justice and Courts Bill going through parliament will introduce a new offence of corrupt or other improper exercise of police powers and privileges.
This amendment was brought forward by Home Secretary Theresa May responding to the findings of Mark Ellison QC in relation to the Stephen Lawrence Independent Review.
Last year, Mrs May told MPs possible links with the unsolved murder of Daniel Morgan, a private investigator who was found with an axe in his head in a south London car park in 1987, and an allegedly corrupt police officer had been uncovered in the Ellison Report.
'Small fry'
Solicitor Raju Bhatt, who acts for Mr Morgan's family and other complainants against the police, said: "The routine case that we see is where police officers have perhaps been over-zealous, overstepped the mark and, after the event, abused their power to try to cover up that initial wrongdoing.
"That's something we see very routinely but that's not classed as corruption."
He said he believed the Met should do more to tackle corruption among higher ranking officers, claiming: "Instead of looking where the real problem is, it's easier to look at the small fry."
A Met spokesman said the force "expects a high level of conduct and behaviour from officers and staff and any breaches of these standards will be dealt with". "The number of police officers suspended represents a very small percentage of the police officers and members of police staff employed by the Met."
Madeleine McCann latest: are police any closer to knowing the truth? After a new detective takes over the helm of the investigation, Gordon Rayner looks at the latest news on the truth about what happened to Madeleine McCann madeleine mccann Madeleine McCann vanished without trace in May 2007 Photo: PA Gordon Rayner
By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter
11:24AM GMT 17 Mar 2015 Follow
In the eight years since Madeleine McCann went missing from a holiday apartment in Portugal, myriad theories about what happened to her have taken root, but only one fact remains uncontested: that she was reported missing at 10.14pm on the evening of Thursday, May 3, 2007.
It was at that point, when police were called, that the clock started ticking on the biggest missing persons investigation for decades, a search which remains very much active to this day.
Facts, the hard currency of any police investigation, have proved almost uniquely elusive; every sighting, every timing and every witness statement has been disputed in the years that have elapsed since.
Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann quickly came under suspicion by Portuguese police, a development that the couple are certain meant vital clues were missed in the first hours and days after Madeleine’s disappearance.
Time since Madeleine’s disappearance 7 : 320 : 11 : 46 Yrs Days Hrs Mins
Every possible theory has been explored since then: that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile; that she was killed during a bungled burglary and her body dumped; that she was abducted by traffickers and sold to a childless couple; that she wandered out of the apartment and died in a tragic accident, and many more besides. To date, however, not one shred of proof of what happened to Madeleine has been unearthed. The question of what happened to Madeleine would become not only a personal tragedy for the McCann family, but a national obsession in the UK and in Portugal.
Madeleine, of Rothley, Leicestershire, was on the penultimate day of her family holiday on the day she vanished. She had spent part of the day playing by the swimming pool in the Ocean Club resort, where the last known picture of her was taken at 2.29pm.
Latest in hunt for Madeleine McCann: former detective hopeful of new discovery
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on March 17, 2015, 11:49:13 PM
so no proof of abduction either the telegraph seems to be saying &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 18, 2015, 12:16:47 AM
Imagine you lived in a country which last year had 3,000 allegations of police corruption. Worse, imagine that of these 3,000 allegations only half of them were properly investigated — because for police officers in this country, corruption was becoming routine. Imagine that the police increasingly used their powers to crack down not on criminals but on anyone who dared speak out against them. What sort of a country is this? Well, it’s Britain I’m afraid — where what was once the finest, most honest service in the world is in danger of becoming rotten.
Some of this was revealed in a little-noticed report by HM Inspectorate of Constabulary, which went on to deliver some even more shocking news. Nearly half of 17,200 officers and staff surveyed said that if they discovered corruption among their colleagues and chose to report it, they didn’t believe their evidence would be treated in confidence and would fear ‘adverse consequences’. This appalling lack of protection for whistle-blowers — often amounting to persecution — has become commonplace throughout the public services and creates a climate in which dishonesty and malpractice flourish.
The second report, compiled by the Serious Organised Crime Agency, bears this out. It says there has been a sharp increase over the past five years in the number of police officers dealing heroin, cocaine and amphetamines and an equally startling rise in the number of officers abusing their power ‘for sexual gratification’ — in other words bullying or cajoling suspects, witnesses and even victims into having sex with them.
Just this week, in fact, it emerged that the Met suspended 73 coppers, community support officers and other staff on corruption charges in the past two years. They cited drug crimes, bribery, theft, fraud, sexual misconduct and — everybody’s favourite — un-authorised disclosure of information. Eleven were convicted in court, but what happened to the others? The Met spokesman said rather blandly that some were allowed to resign or retire (presumably with full pension rights) and some were dismissed. http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9461322/the-shocking-truth-about-police-corruption-in-britain/
The problem with figures like these is that we don't know whether the figures are seemingly high because we have an open system where people do not fear reporting police...where these reports are are properly recorded... From what we have seen from Portugal this does not seem to be the case
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 25, 2015, 10:11:49 AM
Others take issue with the £10million cost so far of searching for Madeleine when the average police “spend” per missing child is between £1,300 and £2,400.
But that is because nine out of 10 cases are solved within 48 hours.
Others take issue with the £10million cost so far of searching for Madeleine when the average police “spend” per missing child is between £1,300 and £2,400.
But that is because nine out of 10 cases are solved within 48 hours.
How many cases in the last three decades in the UK can you name that have exceeded say £1.5MM? Just to get a balance you understand.
Just two of the most recent
Shannon Matthews hunt cost police £3.2m.
April Jones largest search in British policing history and a police investigation which cost in the region of £8.5 million.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 25, 2015, 11:11:51 AM
DCI Wall has only arrived so unless she is as quick as they say at solving cases it will remain open.
For Wall, there is no typical murder. No two jobs are the same. "We could end up with the Tia Sharp jobs of this world," she says of the 12-year-old whose body was discovered at her grandmother's house last August. "And then there are jobs that are equally as difficult as those, but that just somehow don't get that media spark." She usually has about six or seven live cases at any one time, and prides herself on her investigative speed; she is only partially joking when she attributes her low media profile to the fact "we solve cases so quickly nobody gets involved…"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 25, 2015, 11:52:37 AM
April Jones largest search in British policing history and a police investigation which cost in the region of £8.5 million.
Fair enough, but these are disappearances of British children within the UK. Is there a record of the UK police incurring costs for carrying out searches in other countries in other cases or is the McCann case unique in this respect?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 25, 2015, 01:48:15 PM
well no one else is going to bother looking for them..yet they are missing children...why isn't Cameron spending 10 mill on them...it just isn't fair is it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 26, 2015, 08:54:29 PM
well no one else is going to bother looking for them..yet they are missing children...why isn't Cameron spending 10 mill on them...it just isn't fair is it
Why should it be fair? What it should be, but appears at face value not to be, is even handed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 27, 2015, 06:41:01 AM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 27, 2015, 10:30:45 AM
Im sure some hard rules would be useful, but there would be endless disagreement over what they should be and what is 'well within the bounds of responsible parenting'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 11:32:50 AM
For anyone interested there's three podcast episodes featuring the case on ITunes. These are Thinking Sideways, Generation Why and Those Conspiracy Guys.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 27, 2015, 06:35:59 PM
Every day a parent is arrested on suspicion of leaving one or more of their children at home alone, according to new research.
A study by the Press Association found 105 mothers and fathers faced criminal investigation for leaving youngsters unsupervised in the last three months of last year.
The cases involved children aged between just a few weeks old and 14 years old.
There is no law to specify at what age children can be left alone - but if they're placed at risk parents can be arrested and prosecuted for cruelty and neglect.
Figures provided by police forces in England and Wales following Freedom of Information (FoI) requests showed that 30 of those arrested were released without further action, 24 accepted a police caution and 19 were charged.
In other cases, investigations were ongoing or details of how suspects were dealt with were not available.
Liberal Democrat MP John Hemming, who has called on the Government to provide clarity over the issue, said it was difficult to comment on whether police actions covered by the FoI responses were reasonable without knowing the circumstances of individual cases but described the findings as "important research".
"Parents often get confused by what is happening," he said.
"The Government claims that the judgement as to whether it is right to leave a child home alone is made by the parents. However, in fact the judgement is made by the police and local council workers.
"Potentially, someone who leaves a baby in a car seat in a petrol station could face prosecution. Similarly, whereas an eight-year old can be sent to go swimming or to the park on their own, they are not allowed to stay at home (alone). There does need to be more clarity on this.
"This is where the state interfaces into ordinary life and people's lives can be massively disrupted merely for doing what they thought was right for their children."
Chris Cloke, head of child protection awareness at the NSPCC, said: "Children mature at different rates so it's vital we have a common sense approach that ensures flexibility for parents, as they are best-placed to know what is right for their child."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 29, 2015, 08:48:47 PM
In 2007 when their daughter went missing the McCanns had to use the Find Madeleine fund to pay their mortgage. Now they have a million pounds according to the Sun (?) with which to continue the search for her if Operation Grange is stopped. Well I never.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 29, 2015, 08:50:55 PM
In 2007 when their daughter went missing the McCanns had to use the Find Madeleine fund to pay their mortgage. Now they have a million pounds according to the Sun (?) with which to continue the search for her if Operation Grange is stopped. Well I never.
You said you didn't believe what you read in the papers.... @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
only when it suits you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on March 29, 2015, 09:01:30 PM
In 2007 when their daughter went missing the McCanns had to use the Find Madeleine fund to pay their mortgage. Now they have a million pounds according to the Sun (?) with which to continue the search for her if Operation Grange is stopped. Well I never.
Which bit are you finding hard to get your head around?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 29, 2015, 10:08:15 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 29, 2015, 10:22:49 PM
As Posted by Davel in Latest news
Claudia Lawrence arrest proves that the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann should continue
Claudia Lawrence arrest proves that the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann should continue
AS A police boss says it’s time to shelve the inquiry, surely this week’s arrest over missing chef Claudia Lawrence proves there’s still hope of a breakthrough.
Madeleine McCann, pictured age four, went missing from the family's holiday apartment in Portugal
The numbers are undeniably compelling.
Four years; 31 officers of the Metropolitan Police; 33 trips to Portugal; £10million.
There, in cold, unemotional figures, is the cost of the British inquiry in terms of the time, manpower, travel and money which has been spent on investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Expressed in this manner, it is not difficult to understand why some are saying that it is time to scale back the search for the little girl.
After all, it has produced no fruitful new leads or lines of inquiry.
At the same time, the Met is stretched as never before with quashing terrorist plots while also having to cope with ever diminishing finances.
A hard-nosed accountant or a time-and-motion inspector would no doubt use those numbers to swing the argument for calling a halt to Operation Grange, the name given by the Met to the inquiry into Maddie.
The trouble is that the unexplained disappearance of a child is never a cold, unemotional event.
The thought of a child in danger touches us in the most visceral way.
That is why many tens of thousands of people who have no connection to the McCanns became gripped by the tragedy of their predicament.
These people were not just from the McCanns’ home community in Leicestershire or even from this, their home country but people from all over the world. (http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/Kate-and-Gerry-McCann-268603.jpg)
Kate and Gerry McCannREX
Maddie's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, attending mass in Praia da Luz
Nearly eight years on, they remain engaged with the case.
That is why all parents – and even many who are not – will feel only dismay at the idea that it is time for the police to throw in the towel now.
What is even more distressing is the implied suggestion that a price can be put on a child’s life.
Some ask why it is the already over-burdened London force which is looking for Maddie when the McCanns are not residents of the capital.
But it is an irrelevant question.
As British citizens, Kate and Gerry McCann are entitled to all the help the British Government can provide.
In this instance, the Government, via the Home Office, simply decided to give them some of the best crime investigators that this country (some might say the world) can offer: a team from Scotland Yard.
Others take issue with the £10million cost so far of searching for Madeleine when the average police “spend” per missing child is between £1,300 and £2,400.
But that is because nine out of 10 cases are solved within 48 hours.
Police search in Praia da LuzSTEVE REIGATE
Police search a site in Praia da Luz with sniffer dogs
To continue looking for Maddie is to acknowledge that hope doesn’t die – and with good reason.
In this very week, police arrested a man in connection with the disappearance of chef Claudia Lawrence, who went missing from York six years ago.
As with the Maddie case, the place where Claudia was last seen has been searched time and again and still, it seems that it had not yet yielded up all its secrets.
Before Maddie, Britain’s best-known missing child was Ben Needham, who was a little blonde toddler when he vanished in 1991 while on holiday with his mother and grandparents on the Greek island of Kos.
While the search led by South Yorkshire Police (the Needhams are from Sheffield) has inevitably ebbed and flowed, it has never ground to a halt.
Further excavations on Kos were carried out as recently as 2012 and in January, Ben’s mother Kerry handed police a file listing eight separate sightings of Ben throughout the Nineties.
The Home Office has set aside a £700,000 fund to keep the search going.
Maddie is out there somewhere.
The only reason to cease looking for her is because her parents wish it and not because her fate has gone over budget.
Related articles Mother reunited with daughter 17 years writes letter to McCanns in hope for Madeleine Madeleine McCann inquiry: Police make progress at crucial summit meeting with Portuguese Is the hunt for Madeleine McCann over? Police urged to return and 're-focus' on UK safety Madeleine police face April deadline over questioning Portuguese suspects
I'm having no trouble getting my head around anything thank you Alfred.
Let me explain G. It's not really their money, it's donated money. Just as when a member of the public donates to say Save the Children that member of the public has worked for that money but once it is donated it is no longer their money but the charity's.
Kate has donated the money from her book to the fund and that makes it no longer 'their' money but the fund's. Of course the fund is further boosted by previous donations from members of the general public so again not 'their' money.
So to conclude none of the money in the fund is the 'McCann's money' but of course it's good PR to make the general public think it is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 29, 2015, 11:32:22 PM
Claudia Lawrence arrest proves that the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann should continue
Claudia Lawrence arrest proves that the hunt for missing Madeleine McCann should continue
AS A police boss says it’s time to shelve the inquiry, surely this week’s arrest over missing chef Claudia Lawrence proves there’s still hope of a breakthrough.
Madeleine McCann, pictured age four, went missing from the family's holiday apartment in Portugal
The numbers are undeniably compelling.
Four years; 31 officers of the Metropolitan Police; 33 trips to Portugal; £10million.
There, in cold, unemotional figures, is the cost of the British inquiry in terms of the time, manpower, travel and money which has been spent on investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Expressed in this manner, it is not difficult to understand why some are saying that it is time to scale back the search for the little girl.
After all, it has produced no fruitful new leads or lines of inquiry.
At the same time, the Met is stretched as never before with quashing terrorist plots while also having to cope with ever diminishing finances.
A hard-nosed accountant or a time-and-motion inspector would no doubt use those numbers to swing the argument for calling a halt to Operation Grange, the name given by the Met to the inquiry into Maddie.
The trouble is that the unexplained disappearance of a child is never a cold, unemotional event.
The thought of a child in danger touches us in the most visceral way.
That is why many tens of thousands of people who have no connection to the McCanns became gripped by the tragedy of their predicament.
These people were not just from the McCanns’ home community in Leicestershire or even from this, their home country but people from all over the world. (http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/Kate-and-Gerry-McCann-268603.jpg)
Kate and Gerry McCannREX
Maddie's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, attending mass in Praia da Luz
Nearly eight years on, they remain engaged with the case.
That is why all parents – and even many who are not – will feel only dismay at the idea that it is time for the police to throw in the towel now.
What is even more distressing is the implied suggestion that a price can be put on a child’s life.
Some ask why it is the already over-burdened London force which is looking for Maddie when the McCanns are not residents of the capital.
But it is an irrelevant question.
As British citizens, Kate and Gerry McCann are entitled to all the help the British Government can provide.
In this instance, the Government, via the Home Office, simply decided to give them some of the best crime investigators that this country (some might say the world) can offer: a team from Scotland Yard.
Others take issue with the £10million cost so far of searching for Madeleine when the average police “spend” per missing child is between £1,300 and £2,400.
But that is because nine out of 10 cases are solved within 48 hours.
Police search in Praia da LuzSTEVE REIGATE
Police search a site in Praia da Luz with sniffer dogs
To continue looking for Maddie is to acknowledge that hope doesn’t die – and with good reason.
In this very week, police arrested a man in connection with the disappearance of chef Claudia Lawrence, who went missing from York six years ago.
As with the Maddie case, the place where Claudia was last seen has been searched time and again and still, it seems that it had not yet yielded up all its secrets.
Before Maddie, Britain’s best-known missing child was Ben Needham, who was a little blonde toddler when he vanished in 1991 while on holiday with his mother and grandparents on the Greek island of Kos.
While the search led by South Yorkshire Police (the Needhams are from Sheffield) has inevitably ebbed and flowed, it has never ground to a halt.
Further excavations on Kos were carried out as recently as 2012 and in January, Ben’s mother Kerry handed police a file listing eight separate sightings of Ben throughout the Nineties.
The Home Office has set aside a £700,000 fund to keep the search going.
Maddie is out there somewhere.
The only reason to cease looking for her is because her parents wish it and not because her fate has gone over budget.
Related articles Mother reunited with daughter 17 years writes letter to McCanns in hope for Madeleine Madeleine McCann inquiry: Police make progress at crucial summit meeting with Portuguese Is the hunt for Madeleine McCann over? Police urged to return and 're-focus' on UK safety Madeleine police face April deadline over questioning Portuguese suspects
Whether the person charged is found guilty or not by the court ... the message loud and clear to criminals is that the police will continue to be on their trail however long it takes.
These people should never rest easy ... I'm happy with that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 29, 2015, 11:35:17 PM
Let me explain G. It's not really their money, it's donated money. Just as when a member of the public donates to say Save the Children that member of the public has worked for that money but once it is donated it is no longer their money but the charity's.
Kate has donated the money from her book to the fund and that makes it no longer 'their' money but the fund's. Of course the fund is further boosted by previous donations from members of the general public so again not 'their' money.
So to conclude none of the money in the fund is the 'McCann's money' but of course it's good PR to make the general public think it is.
So the one million pounds is not their money then? The Sun seemed to be suggesting that it was their personal money, additional to the money already in the fund (roughly £ 700,000 in the last accounts). I thought it might be the one million pounds they are expecting Goncalo Amaral to pay them.
The question of who 'owned' the money made by the book is a bit of a grey area in my opinion. Kate McCann said the deciding factor to write the book was because the Fund was running low. That implies that the money raised was always intended for the Fund, not for herself. She donated her time and energies to writing a book for the purpose of raising money for the Fund. If I donate my time and energy to baking cakes to raise money for charity the money raised is never mine. If I took it those who donated it would say I obtained it by false pretenses wouldn't they?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 29, 2015, 11:41:15 PM
So the one million pounds is not their money then? The Sun seemed to be suggesting that it was their personal money, additional to the money already in the fund (roughly £ 700,000 in the last accounts). I thought it might be the one million pounds they are expecting Goncalo Amaral to pay them.
The question of who 'owned' the money made by the book is a bit of a grey area in my opinion. Kate McCann said the deciding factor to write the book was because the Fund was running low. That implies that the money raised was always intended for the Fund, not for herself. She donated her time and energies to writing a book for the purpose of raising money for the Fund. If I donate my time and energy to baking cakes to raise money for charity the money raised is never mine. If I took it those who donated it would say I obtained it by false pretenses wouldn't they?
Exactly G-Unit and no the money mentioned in the article is not their personal money but the money in the fund.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2015, 12:26:37 AM
Exactly G-Unit and no the money mentioned in the article is not their personal money but the money in the fund.
The purpose of which is to leave no stone unturned in the search for their daughter? Nothing new then. What a non story as per usual. I wonder if the Portuguese investigation will be archived again if the SY one is? If so, will the files be released again? Or will the investigation continue in Portugal? The investigation which I thought could have been kept open or reopened had the McCanns requested it, which they didn't.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on March 30, 2015, 12:43:22 AM
It is the money the Mccanns have earned writing the book Madeleine + monies awarded to them for being libelled.
The source of the money is Kate and Gerry Mccann, all of it, but they have given their money to the Search Fund.
All the fund is now from THEIR MONEY.
Kate, of Rothley, Leics, said: 'Publishing this book has been a very difficult decision and is one that we have taken after much deliberation and with a very heavy heart. However, in the last few months with the depletion of Madeleine’s Fund, it is a decision that has virtually been taken out of our hands. 'Every penny we raise through its sales will be spent on our search for Madeleine. Nothing is more important to us than finding our little girl.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375693/JK-Rowling-helps-Kate-McCann-write-book-Madeleines-disappearance.html#ixzz3Vp86AXkp Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Considering the direct quote above, none of the money raised from the sale of the book was intended to be spent on the family, every penny was to be spent on the search. Had I bought the book I would have been upset had the family kept the money. Legally it may have been paid to them, but morally it was earmarked for the search. No-one has been found guilty of libeling the McCanns in court have they?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2015, 01:39:51 AM
It is the money the Mccanns have earned writing the book Madeleine + monies awarded to them for being libelled.
The source of the money is Kate and Gerry Mccann, all of it, but they have given their money to the Search Fund.
All the fund is now from THEIR MONEY.
IMO the fact that it is their money is in the public domain and has been common knowledge to those with the avid interest some individuals have displayed into the subject of the so called "fraudulent" fund; a phrase coined I believe by a person whose brother sued him for fraud so who no doubt sees everything through the example of his own actions or what he might do in the circumstances.
Totally irrelevant in a thread devoted to the discussion of the 'latest' news ... but I suppose they must think the misinformation reflects badly on the McCann's ... whereas the reality is it reflects badly on them as being either illiterate or nasty ... maybe even both.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on March 30, 2015, 02:02:16 AM
Whether the person charged is found guilty or not by the court ... the message loud and clear to criminals is that the police will continue to be on their trail however long it takes.
These people should never rest easy ... I'm happy with that.
I totally agree, Brietta.
The search for the culprits should continue regardless.
However, the fact that Madeleine's disappearance occurred in Portugal, does complicate matters, in the fact that the laws are different and the UK police are restricted in their investigation techniques, not to mention the extra expense involved.
Once it is abandoned, it will be left to the Portuguese police to continue their investigating, unless of course it is shelved again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2015, 02:38:24 AM
IMO the fact that it is their money is in the public domain and has been common knowledge to those with the avid interest some individuals have displayed into the subject of the so called "fraudulent" fund; a phrase coined I believe by a person whose brother sued him for fraud so who no doubt sees everything through the example of his own actions or what he might do in the circumstances.
Totally irrelevant in a thread devoted to the discussion of the 'latest' news ... but I suppose they must think the misinformation reflects badly on the McCann's ... whereas the reality is it reflects badly on them as being either illiterate or nasty ... maybe even both.
I beg to differ. The Sun said that the McCanns would use one million pounds of their own money to continue the search for Madeleine if the SY investigation was shelved. That is the story we were discussing. I was wondering whether the one million was in addition to what is left in the Fund or was the Sun referring to the money already in there. At the last count it was less than one million.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 30, 2015, 07:08:00 AM
I beg to differ. The Sun said that the McCanns would use one million pounds of their own money to continue the search for Madeleine if the SY investigation was shelved. That is the story we were discussing. I was wondering whether the one million was in addition to what is left in the Fund or was the Sun referring to the money already in there. At the last count it was less than one million.
suddenly...when it suits...the Sun becomes a reliable source of information...the hypocrisy of the sceptics yet again
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 30, 2015, 07:27:33 AM
Whether the person charged is found guilty or not by the court ... the message loud and clear to criminals is that the police will continue to be on their trail however long it takes.
These people should never rest easy ... I'm happy with that.
There's no news in the Express/Pukas article. It is an opinion piece.
There was no news in the article the day before, when some journalist opined that it was time for the search to stop (as nothing had been achieved according to him).
I think it was 20th Jan when the piece came out that a Police Federation chappie had said that resources earmarked for London should not be ring-fenced for crimes committed outside London. Brietta posted the graphic in the relevant thread showing that the union guy was simply saying enough was enough on police cuts (but a Madeleine headline in the media was so much more attractive re selling papers).
The simple fact is SY either has credible lines to pursue, in which case it should pursue, or it does not, in which case it should stop and release 31 staff to higher priorities.
The articles seem to have missed 2 clues. Operation Grange was 'downsized' by about 10% recently. It has had its cut, but 31 staff devoted to the op is still a very sizeable team.
Second is Nicola Wall's top-level meeting in Lisbon a short while back. That was definitely not a 'we are about to wind up, can we get our stories in sync please' meeting.
Simple summary. SY still has credible lines to investigate. For that reason, and that reason only, the investigation should, and will, continue.
(This is my opinion piece for the day!)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 30, 2015, 07:47:06 AM
There's no news in the Express/Pukas article. It is an opinion piece.
There was no news in the article the day before, when some journalist opined that it was time for the search to stop (as nothing had been achieved according to him).
I think it was 20th Jan when the piece came out that a Police Federation chappie had said that resources earmarked for London should not be ring-fenced for crimes committed outside London. Brietta posted the graphic in the relevant thread showing that the union guy was simply saying enough was enough on police cuts (but a Madeleine headline in the media was so much more attractive re selling papers).
The simple fact is SY either has credible lines to pursue, in which case it should pursue, or it does not, in which case it should stop and release 31 staff to higher priorities.
The articles seem to have missed 2 clues. Operation Grange was 'downsized' by about 10% recently. It has had its cut, but 31 staff devoted to the op is still a very sizeable team.
Second is Nicola Wall's top-level meeting in Lisbon a short while back. That was definitely not a 'we are about to wind up, can we get our stories in sync please' meeting.
Simple summary. SY still has credible lines to investigate. For that reason, and that reason only, the investigation should, and will, continue.
(This is my opinion piece for the day!)
Some sense spoken...what a refreshing change
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 30, 2015, 09:49:40 AM
IMO the fact that it is their money is in the public domain and has been common knowledge to those with the avid interest some individuals have displayed into the subject of the so called "fraudulent" fund; a phrase coined I believe by a person whose brother sued him for fraud so who no doubt sees everything through the example of his own actions or what he might do in the circumstances.
Totally irrelevant in a thread devoted to the discussion of the 'latest' news ... but I suppose they must think the misinformation reflects badly on the McCann's ... whereas the reality is it reflects badly on them as being either illiterate or nasty ... maybe even both.
It is not THEIR money. It was a donation to the fund and once there was added to the donations from the GBP, however small they now are. Just as honest to say it is the public's money.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on March 30, 2015, 10:05:10 AM
It is not THEIR money. It was a donation to the fund and once there was added to the donations from the GBP, however small they now are. Just as honest to say it is the public's money.
Can you clarify please Faith?
Are you saying that Kate's earning from the sale of her book was not her money to give in the first place?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 30, 2015, 10:20:23 AM
It is not THEIR money. It was a donation to the fund and once there was added to the donations from the GBP, however small they now are. Just as honest to say it is the public's money.
still relying on the sun article for your facts
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 30, 2015, 10:43:46 AM
Are you saying that Kate's earning from the sale of her book was not her money to give in the first place?
Of course it was her money to give just as anyone making a donation does so with their own money. However once the donation is made it is no longer their money but the cause they have given it to, in this case the fund. To say that the McCanns are giving their own money when it is money already donated is a tad disingenuous don't you think ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on March 30, 2015, 10:50:05 AM
I find that article in the Sun very confusing.
If the McCann's are ploughing £1,000,000 of their own money into the fund if SY were to stop their investigation then they wouldn't have put the money in yet as SY haven't stated the investigation is going to stop.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2015, 11:03:29 AM
If the McCann's are ploughing £1,000,000 of their own money into the fund if SY were to stop their investigation then they wouldn't have put the money in yet as SY haven't stated the investigation is going to stop.
Exactly. It's pure speculation IMO, but they've suggested that the McCanns are millionnaires. Any money already in the Fund belongs to the Company. not to two of the directors.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 30, 2015, 11:11:04 AM
Exactly. It's pure speculation IMO, but they've suggested that the McCanns are millionnaires. Any money already in the Fund belongs to the Company. not to two of the directors.
If the fund were to be wound up, who would the remaining money legally belong to?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on March 30, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
Of course it was her money to give just as anyone making a donation does so with their own money. However once the donation is made it is no longer their money but the cause they have given it to, in this case the fund. To say that the McCanns are giving their own money when it is money already donated is a tad disingenuous don't you think ?
No I don't - but I do think you could win prizes for nitpicking Faith.
Anyway - your usual response to SUN articles being quoted on here by 'supporters' is to question the reliability of anything printed in the SUN. Why don't you think this article deserves the same dismissive treatment from you?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 30, 2015, 11:18:48 AM
No I don't - but I do think you could win prizes for nitpicking Faith.
Anyway - your usual response to SUN articles being quoted on here by 'supporters' is to question the reliability of anything printed in the SUN. Why don't you think this article deserves the same dismissive treatment from you?
We've moved on Benice. The question now can the money donated to the fund by the McCanns be considered 'theirs' ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on March 30, 2015, 11:19:20 AM
We've moved on Benice. The question now can the money donated to the fund by the McCanns be considered 'theirs' ?
By the same token why do sceptics claim public donations to the Fund belong to the public? Isn't this their main argument for wanting to know from the Accounts how every last penny has been spent? i.e. it's the public's money so they are entitled to know? Why aren't you telling them that once it's donated - it's no longer their money and they should not be claiming it is?
You seem to want it both ways Faith.
And I still say you are nitpicking on the strength of a SUN article - which you normally dismiss and deride as unreliable.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 30, 2015, 11:35:46 AM
I'm not sure which Sun article you're referring to, but I suspect that it should have said that if funding dried up for the Met, then the McCanns would continue the search through the Fund.
A practical problem with that, however, is that the scope of what they could achieve would be extremely limited: they would have no authority to issue letters of request, for example. Even though they are apparently kept updated by the Met, it's not clear whether they would have access to the Met's files to see exactly what had been followed up or what had been left pending.
Personally, I find the stop-the-investigation-funding to be pre-election hype (no better time to have a moan about cut-backs than now). I also find that the police federation chap could have equally moaned about the cost of officers deployed to ensure that Assange doesn't do a runner from the Ecuadorian embassy... but perhaps Madeleine is a more emotive subject and the keyword of her name ensures more publicity.
I find it highly unlikely that 31 officers are assigned exclusively to this case. There are no doubt times or developments requiring a higher level of input from a larger number of staff and others that require substantial input from fewer staff depending on their function.
I also find it unlikely that the Madeleine investigation is the sole purpose behind the allocation of funds, even though that is the official banner.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2015, 11:41:15 AM
I believe the McCann's did say if Madeleine was found, then the fund money would be given to Missing People.
It will certainly be disbursed to charity.
Now that posters have revisited the Madeleine Fund ... may I make so bold as to raise the issue of the Goncalo Amaral Fund which is entirely reliant on public subscription.
Any links to where I can have a quick look at a breakdown of the figures and expenditure or even how much is left in the coffers and what will be done with it at the conclusion of the case it was apparently begged to finance?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2015, 11:46:33 AM
I'm not sure which Sun article you're referring to, but I suspect that it should have said that if funding dried up for the Met, then the McCanns would continue the search through the Fund.
A practical problem with that, however, is that the scope of what they could achieve would be extremely limited: they would have no authority to issue letters of request, for example. Even though they are apparently kept updated by the Met, it's not clear whether they would have access to the Met's files to see exactly what had been followed up or what had been left pending.
Personally, I find the stop-the-investigation-funding to be pre-election hype (no better time to have a moan about cut-backs than now). I also find that the police federation chap could have equally moaned about the cost of officers deployed to ensure that Assange doesn't do a runner from the Ecuadorian embassy... but perhaps Madeleine is a more emotive subject and the keyword of her name ensures more publicity.
I find it highly unlikely that 31 officers are assigned exclusively to this case. There are no doubt times or developments requiring a higher level of input from a larger number of staff and others that require substantial input from fewer staff depending on their function.
I also find it unlikely that the Madeleine investigation is the sole purpose behind the allocation of funds, even though that is the official banner.
It is my opinion that some people are just so blinkered and programmed to object to everything "McCann" that they cannot take in the bigger picture here.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2015, 11:51:35 AM
Now that posters have revisited the Madeleine Fund ... may I make so bold as to raise the issue of the Goncalo Amaral Fund which is entirely reliant on public subscription.
Any links to where I can have a quick look at a breakdown of the figures and expenditure or even how much is left in the coffers and what will be done with it at the conclusion of the case it was apparently begged to finance?
The matter of the Madeleine Fund was raised by the 'news' in the Sun I thought? Posters merely discussed issues arising from the story. Has there been any recent news about the Goncalo Amaral Fund?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2015, 12:18:16 PM
The matter of the Madeleine Fund was raised by the 'news' in the Sun I thought? Posters merely discussed issues arising from the story. Has there been any recent news about the Goncalo Amaral Fund?
... I missed entirely the new revelations in the 'news' section of the Sun rehashing information on the Madeleine Fund ... must have been in the 'news' section updating the total lack of information and transparency on the Goncalo Amaral Appeal Fund ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 30, 2015, 12:41:17 PM
It is my opinion that some people are just so blinkered and programmed to object to everything "McCann" that they cannot take in the bigger picture here.
Pavlov comes to mind...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 30, 2015, 01:21:10 PM
No! Just that the articles of association are at variance with that which was posted 8(>((. See section 2 page 14 http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/RESOLUTION.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 01, 2015, 10:13:47 AM
Portuguese police have been heavily criticised but all police forces make mistakes.
Coroner slams bungling police who destroyed vital evidence at murder scene because they treated death of pensioner found with her throat slit and her body set on fire as an ACCIDENT Una Crown, 86 found burnt and stabbed but police ruled death an accident Coroner said vital clues had been lost and death was 'clearly homicide' Bungled investigation saw PC wash a blood stained key after touching it Paramedics, fire crews and police also allowed to trample scene with mud
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3019745/Coroner-slams-bungling-police-destroyed-vital-evidence-murder-scene-treated-death-pensioner-throat-slit-body-set-fire-ACCIDENT.html#ixzz3W2zC56s8 Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 01, 2015, 02:21:31 PM
Now when it comes to talking about incompetent police.............................
''Coroner slams bungling police who destroyed vital evidence at murder scene because they treated death of pensioner found with her throat slit and her body set on fire as an ACCIDENT
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3019745/Coroner-slams-bungling-police-destroyed-vital-evidence-murder-scene-treated-death-pensioner-throat-slit-body-set-fire-ACCIDENT.html#ixzz3W08Belk9 Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
-------------------
and some dare to criticize the PJ.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 01, 2015, 02:41:45 PM
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html First Article.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 02, 2015, 03:46:43 PM
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on April 02, 2015 Ex-detective adds his voice to the legions backing disgraced Maddie cop
A former German detective with years of experience working on murder investigations has added his voice to the legions of people backing disgraced Madeleine cop Gonçalo Amaral.
Ulrich Merz, 60, was in Praia da Luz on the day Madeleine went missing in 2007. He has been following the various investigations ever since with the eye of a trained professional.
His “exasperation” at the way things have been handled down the years is one of the reasons for his decision to put pen to paper.
He writes to Amaral as the latter waits on tenterhooks to hear the judge’s final decision over whether or not he is liable for the €1.2 million defamation claim taken out against him by Madeleine’s parents five years ago.
Merz does not mince his words. Amaral’s theory, given the details available at the time, was “completely valid”, he tells the policeman.
The theory that burglars could have abducted Madeleine simply “does not fit the profile”, he claims - and indeed, in his opinion as a criminal investigator, Merz does “not believe in an abduction” at all.
Social media support for Amaral since he was “disgraced” - particularly by the British media - and removed from the original Portuguese investigation has been resounding, but this is perhaps the first time a trained police investigator has come out on record in this way.
Non-English speaking, Merz is unconcerned.
He claims the case is unique in that the Portuguese government “has allowed itself to be pushed around” by Britain, currently conducting the “Operation Grange” investigation into Madeleine’s almost eight-year-old disappearance.
“The way this case has been handled is particularly unique because your conclusions differed from those of the British government,” he told Amaral, stressing his “exasperation” at seeing a fellow policeman’s work “denigrated”.
The Resident learnt of Merz’ letter as it was handed to us to pass on to Amaral. We cannot go into the details of Merz’ theory as a criminal investigator with specific experience in murder cases as it would undoubtedly see us in legal hot-water.
As Portuguese news media has long pointed out, Amaral’s theory, expounded in his book “The Truth of the Lie”, has seen him financially-strapped since its publication.
Bank accounts have been frozen, the book ‘seized’ and withdrawn from sale for months, and his “civil position”, as the former detective refers to it, made untenable.
In an open letter to his supporters as the long-running trial for defamation came to a close, Amaral reiterated his belief that the parents of the missing child have “sought to ‘asphyxiate’ him financially and push him to a civil death” - a position from which he would be “unable to react judicially”.
“After five years, the parents of the child that mysteriously disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007 in the Algarve were not able to fully achieve what they intended. I am alive, I'm able to financially sustain the civil suit, although not much more than that…”
Since that message, Projecto Justiça Gonçalo Amaral has issued a new bulletin saying the judge’s decision on the McCann parents’ suit should come after the judicial holidays which close on April 6.
“We trust in justice and serenely await the judge’s decision,” the message came to its close.
“God’s windmills move slowly,” Merz concluded in his letter to Amaral. “You are in a trap made by bad people, but I know that when someone shares the knowledge of the deed, the conscience always come out - even if it is unintentional. “I have strong hope in your complete recovery and rehabilitation,” he tells the Portuguese “colleague” whom he has never met.
Endless column inches have been devoted to this eternal mystery but the truth is that Gonçalo Amaral has been fighting for his professional credibility in an arena bereft of mainstream support.
It is this reality that prompted Ulrich Merz’ hand-written letter which comes in the wake of rumblings from the UK that the Metropolitan Police may at last be considering a renewed scale back of the multi-million pound investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
By NATASHA DONN natasha.donn@algarveresident.com http://portugalresident.com/ex-detective-adds-his-voice-to-the-legions-backing-disgraced-maddie-cop
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 02, 2015, 04:02:17 PM
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on April 02, 2015 Ex-detective adds his voice to the legions backing disgraced Maddie cop
A former German detective with years of experience working on murder investigations has added his voice to the legions of people backing disgraced Madeleine cop Gonçalo Amaral.
Ulrich Merz, 60, was in Praia da Luz on the day Madeleine went missing in 2007. He has been following the various investigations ever since with the eye of a trained professional.
His “exasperation” at the way things have been handled down the years is one of the reasons for his decision to put pen to paper.
He writes to Amaral as the latter waits on tenterhooks to hear the judge’s final decision over whether or not he is liable for the €1.2 million defamation claim taken out against him by Madeleine’s parents five years ago.
Merz does not mince his words. Amaral’s theory, given the details available at the time, was “completely valid”, he tells the policeman.
The theory that burglars could have abducted Madeleine simply “does not fit the profile”, he claims - and indeed, in his opinion as a criminal investigator, Merz does “not believe in an abduction” at all.
Social media support for Amaral since he was “disgraced” - particularly by the British media - and removed from the original Portuguese investigation has been resounding, but this is perhaps the first time a trained police investigator has come out on record in this way.
Non-English speaking, Merz is unconcerned.
He claims the case is unique in that the Portuguese government “has allowed itself to be pushed around” by Britain, currently conducting the “Operation Grange” investigation into Madeleine’s almost eight-year-old disappearance.
“The way this case has been handled is particularly unique because your conclusions differed from those of the British government,” he told Amaral, stressing his “exasperation” at seeing a fellow policeman’s work “denigrated”.
The Resident learnt of Merz’ letter as it was handed to us to pass on to Amaral. We cannot go into the details of Merz’ theory as a criminal investigator with specific experience in murder cases as it would undoubtedly see us in legal hot-water.
As Portuguese news media has long pointed out, Amaral’s theory, expounded in his book “The Truth of the Lie”, has seen him financially-strapped since its publication.
Bank accounts have been frozen, the book ‘seized’ and withdrawn from sale for months, and his “civil position”, as the former detective refers to it, made untenable.
In an open letter to his supporters as the long-running trial for defamation came to a close, Amaral reiterated his belief that the parents of the missing child have “sought to ‘asphyxiate’ him financially and push him to a civil death” - a position from which he would be “unable to react judicially”.
“After five years, the parents of the child that mysteriously disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007 in the Algarve were not able to fully achieve what they intended. I am alive, I'm able to financially sustain the civil suit, although not much more than that…”
Since that message, Projecto Justiça Gonçalo Amaral has issued a new bulletin saying the judge’s decision on the McCann parents’ suit should come after the judicial holidays which close on April 6.
“We trust in justice and serenely await the judge’s decision,” the message came to its close.
“God’s windmills move slowly,” Merz concluded in his letter to Amaral. “You are in a trap made by bad people, but I know that when someone shares the knowledge of the deed, the conscience always come out - even if it is unintentional. “I have strong hope in your complete recovery and rehabilitation,” he tells the Portuguese “colleague” whom he has never met.
Endless column inches have been devoted to this eternal mystery but the truth is that Gonçalo Amaral has been fighting for his professional credibility in an arena bereft of mainstream support.
It is this reality that prompted Ulrich Merz’ hand-written letter which comes in the wake of rumblings from the UK that the Metropolitan Police may at last be considering a renewed scale back of the multi-million pound investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
By NATASHA DONN natasha.donn@algarveresident.com http://portugalresident.com/ex-detective-adds-his-voice-to-the-legions-backing-disgraced-maddie-cop
so there is a policeman in Germany who supports the DISGRACED cop amaral.....is that it... @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 02, 2015, 04:07:17 PM
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on April 02, 2015 Ex-detective adds his voice to the legions backing disgraced Maddie cop
A former German detective with years of experience working on murder investigations has added his voice to the legions of people backing disgraced Madeleine cop Gonçalo Amaral.
Ulrich Merz, 60, was in Praia da Luz on the day Madeleine went missing in 2007. He has been following the various investigations ever since with the eye of a trained professional.
His “exasperation” at the way things have been handled down the years is one of the reasons for his decision to put pen to paper.
He writes to Amaral as the latter waits on tenterhooks to hear the judge’s final decision over whether or not he is liable for the €1.2 million defamation claim taken out against him by Madeleine’s parents five years ago.
Merz does not mince his words. Amaral’s theory, given the details available at the time, was “completely valid”, he tells the policeman.
The theory that burglars could have abducted Madeleine simply “does not fit the profile”, he claims - and indeed, in his opinion as a criminal investigator, Merz does “not believe in an abduction” at all.
Social media support for Amaral since he was “disgraced” - particularly by the British media - and removed from the original Portuguese investigation has been resounding, but this is perhaps the first time a trained police investigator has come out on record in this way.
Non-English speaking, Merz is unconcerned.
He claims the case is unique in that the Portuguese government “has allowed itself to be pushed around” by Britain, currently conducting the “Operation Grange” investigation into Madeleine’s almost eight-year-old disappearance.
“The way this case has been handled is particularly unique because your conclusions differed from those of the British government,” he told Amaral, stressing his “exasperation” at seeing a fellow policeman’s work “denigrated”.
The Resident learnt of Merz’ letter as it was handed to us to pass on to Amaral. We cannot go into the details of Merz’ theory as a criminal investigator with specific experience in murder cases as it would undoubtedly see us in legal hot-water.
As Portuguese news media has long pointed out, Amaral’s theory, expounded in his book “The Truth of the Lie”, has seen him financially-strapped since its publication.
Bank accounts have been frozen, the book ‘seized’ and withdrawn from sale for months, and his “civil position”, as the former detective refers to it, made untenable.
In an open letter to his supporters as the long-running trial for defamation came to a close, Amaral reiterated his belief that the parents of the missing child have “sought to ‘asphyxiate’ him financially and push him to a civil death” - a position from which he would be “unable to react judicially”.
“After five years, the parents of the child that mysteriously disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007 in the Algarve were not able to fully achieve what they intended. I am alive, I'm able to financially sustain the civil suit, although not much more than that…”
Since that message, Projecto Justiça Gonçalo Amaral has issued a new bulletin saying the judge’s decision on the McCann parents’ suit should come after the judicial holidays which close on April 6.
“We trust in justice and serenely await the judge’s decision,” the message came to its close.
“God’s windmills move slowly,” Merz concluded in his letter to Amaral. “You are in a trap made by bad people, but I know that when someone shares the knowledge of the deed, the conscience always come out - even if it is unintentional. “I have strong hope in your complete recovery and rehabilitation,” he tells the Portuguese “colleague” whom he has never met.
Endless column inches have been devoted to this eternal mystery but the truth is that Gonçalo Amaral has been fighting for his professional credibility in an arena bereft of mainstream support.
It is this reality that prompted Ulrich Merz’ hand-written letter which comes in the wake of rumblings from the UK that the Metropolitan Police may at last be considering a renewed scale back of the multi-million pound investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
By NATASHA DONN natasha.donn@algarveresident.com http://portugalresident.com/ex-detective-adds-his-voice-to-the-legions-backing-disgraced-maddie-cop
Wonder if this German detective fits any of the efits of blonde German-speaking men seen in the vicinity of 5a that week?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 02, 2015, 04:11:07 PM
Its an item of news, whether you care for it or not.
I wonder what language he used to write to Amaral. He must be the only German in Germany not to speak English, especially being a detective. Sounds more like a "Spanish ex detective".
I wonder why he gave no statement, if he was there the day Madeliene went missing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 02, 2015, 05:21:51 PM
I wonder what language he used to write to Amaral. He must be the only German in Germany not to speak English, especially being a detective. Sounds more like a "Spanish ex detective".
I wonder why he gave no statement, if he was there the day Madeliene went missing.
I was about to make a similar comment... particularly about the lack of a statement if he was there on the day.
A "detective" in which capacity? A wannabe private eye or a police officer?
For some reason, I detect a strange whiff of déjà poo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 02, 2015, 05:29:08 PM
Its an item of news, whether you care for it or not.
Indeed.
Quite uncanny that the latest news emanating from Portugal is so up to date and interesting. Me ... I would have asked questions about his opinion of the organisation of the searches for Madeleine McCann and if he brought any of the famed German efficiency to them. Maybe he was undercover ...
Wonder if there is some real news due to break? ... I seem to remember something about judges and April.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 02, 2015, 05:36:04 PM
Quite uncanny that the latest news emanating from Portugal is so up to date and interesting. Me ... I would have asked questions about his opinion of the organisation of the searches for Madeleine McCann and if he brought any of the famed German efficiency to them. Maybe he was undercover ...
Wonder if there is some real news due to break? ... I seem to remember something about judges and April.
No surprise there under the circumstances 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 02, 2015, 06:18:44 PM
Well they all look alike to the uninitiated 8(>((. Something to do mit leder hosen und pickelhaube.
I only know what a few of them look like ... but he certainly has the 'doubters' handbook off pat.
The language problem is a thing though, bad enough we have English and Portuguese with assurances when I quote from Mr Amaral's book that it is a mistranslation from Portuguese to French and back to English ... and now we have German in the mix from a "Non-English speaking, Merz ", a detective unable to detect the address of perhaps the most famous ex-detective in Portugal with the exception perhaps of Cristovao.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 02, 2015, 06:27:37 PM
I want to know more about these "legions of people" all voicing their support Amaral. Natasha couldn't just be referring to the "sceptic" community could she? Or is there some sort of growing army of Gonc supporters amassing in Portugal ready to storm government buildings in the event of a bad result in court for their hero?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 02, 2015, 06:29:26 PM
I only know what a few of them look like ... but he certainly has the 'doubters' handbook off pat.
The language problem is a thing though, bad enough we have English and Portuguese with assurances when I quote from Mr Amaral's book that it is a mistranslation from Portuguese to French and back to English ... and now we have German in the mix from a "Non-English speaking, Merz ", a detective unable to detect the address of perhaps the most famous ex-detective in Portugal with the exception perhaps of Cristovao.
Errm err yes or no as the case may be. Don't worry about language barriers. German is a specification not a language.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2015, 07:09:10 PM
A former German detective with years of experience working on murder investigations has added his voice to the legions of people backing disgraced Madeleine cop Gonçalo Amaral.
Ulrich Merz, 60, was in Praia da Luz on the day Madeleine went missing in 2007. He has been following the various investigations ever since with the eye of a trained professional.
His “exasperation” at the way things have been handled down the years is one of the reasons for his decision to put pen to paper.
He writes to Amaral as the latter waits on tenterhooks to hear the judge’s final decision over whether or not he is liable for the €1.2 million defamation claim taken out against him by Madeleine’s parents five years ago.
Merz does not mince his words. Amaral’s theory, given the details available at the time, was “completely valid”, he tells the policeman.
The theory that burglars could have abducted Madeleine simply “does not fit the profile”, he claims - and indeed, in his opinion as a criminal investigator, Merz does “not believe in an abduction” at all.
Social media support for Amaral since he was “disgraced” - particularly by the British media - and removed from the original Portuguese investigation has been resounding, but this is perhaps the first time a trained police investigator has come out on record in this way.
Non-English speaking, Merz is unconcerned.
He claims the case is unique in that the Portuguese government “has allowed itself to be pushed around” by Britain, currently conducting the “Operation Grange” investigation into Madeleine’s almost eight-year-old disappearance.
“The way this case has been handled is particularly unique because your conclusions differed from those of the British government,” he told Amaral, stressing his “exasperation” at seeing a fellow policeman’s work “denigrated”.
The Resident learnt of Merz’ letter as it was handed to us to pass on to Amaral. We cannot go into the details of Merz’ theory as a criminal investigator with specific experience in murder cases as it would undoubtedly see us in legal hot-water.
As Portuguese news media has long pointed out, Amaral’s theory, expounded in his book “The Truth of the Lie”, has seen him financially-strapped since its publication.
Bank accounts have been frozen, the book ‘seized’ and withdrawn from sale for months, and his “civil position”, as the former detective refers to it, made untenable.
In an open letter to his supporters as the long-running trial for defamation came to a close, Amaral reiterated his belief that the parents of the missing child have “sought to ‘asphyxiate’ him financially and push him to a civil death” - a position from which he would be “unable to react judicially”.
“After five years, the parents of the child that mysteriously disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007 in the Algarve were not able to fully achieve what they intended. I am alive, I'm able to financially sustain the civil suit, although not much more than that…”
Since that message, Projecto Justiça Gonçalo Amaral has issued a new bulletin saying the judge’s decision on the McCann parents’ suit should come after the judicial holidays which close on April 6.
“We trust in justice and serenely await the judge’s decision,” the message came to its close.
“God’s windmills move slowly,” Merz concluded in his letter to Amaral. “You are in a trap made by bad people, but I know that when someone shares the knowledge of the deed, the conscience always come out - even if it is unintentional. “I have strong hope in your complete recovery and rehabilitation,” he tells the Portuguese “colleague” whom he has never met.
Endless column inches have been devoted to this eternal mystery but the truth is that Gonçalo Amaral has been fighting for his professional credibility in an arena bereft of mainstream support.
It is this reality that prompted Ulrich Merz’ hand-written letter which comes in the wake of rumblings from the UK that the Metropolitan Police may at last be considering a renewed scale back of the multi-million pound investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
By NATASHA DONN natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on April 02, 2015, 07:13:40 PM
A former German detective with years of experience working on murder investigations has added his voice to the legions of people backing disgraced Madeleine cop Gonçalo Amaral.
Ulrich Merz, 60, was in Praia da Luz on the day Madeleine went missing in 2007. He has been following the various investigations ever since with the eye of a trained professional.
His “exasperation” at the way things have been handled down the years is one of the reasons for his decision to put pen to paper.
He writes to Amaral as the latter waits on tenterhooks to hear the judge’s final decision over whether or not he is liable for the €1.2 million defamation claim taken out against him by Madeleine’s parents five years ago.
Merz does not mince his words. Amaral’s theory, given the details available at the time, was “completely valid”, he tells the policeman.
The theory that burglars could have abducted Madeleine simply “does not fit the profile”, he claims - and indeed, in his opinion as a criminal investigator, Merz does “not believe in an abduction” at all.
Social media support for Amaral since he was “disgraced” - particularly by the British media - and removed from the original Portuguese investigation has been resounding, but this is perhaps the first time a trained police investigator has come out on record in this way.
Non-English speaking, Merz is unconcerned.
He claims the case is unique in that the Portuguese government “has allowed itself to be pushed around” by Britain, currently conducting the “Operation Grange” investigation into Madeleine’s almost eight-year-old disappearance.
“The way this case has been handled is particularly unique because your conclusions differed from those of the British government,” he told Amaral, stressing his “exasperation” at seeing a fellow policeman’s work “denigrated”.
The Resident learnt of Merz’ letter as it was handed to us to pass on to Amaral. We cannot go into the details of Merz’ theory as a criminal investigator with specific experience in murder cases as it would undoubtedly see us in legal hot-water.
As Portuguese news media has long pointed out, Amaral’s theory, expounded in his book “The Truth of the Lie”, has seen him financially-strapped since its publication.
Bank accounts have been frozen, the book ‘seized’ and withdrawn from sale for months, and his “civil position”, as the former detective refers to it, made untenable.
In an open letter to his supporters as the long-running trial for defamation came to a close, Amaral reiterated his belief that the parents of the missing child have “sought to ‘asphyxiate’ him financially and push him to a civil death” - a position from which he would be “unable to react judicially”.
“After five years, the parents of the child that mysteriously disappeared on the 3rd of May of 2007 in the Algarve were not able to fully achieve what they intended. I am alive, I'm able to financially sustain the civil suit, although not much more than that…”
Since that message, Projecto Justiça Gonçalo Amaral has issued a new bulletin saying the judge’s decision on the McCann parents’ suit should come after the judicial holidays which close on April 6.
“We trust in justice and serenely await the judge’s decision,” the message came to its close.
“God’s windmills move slowly,” Merz concluded in his letter to Amaral. “You are in a trap made by bad people, but I know that when someone shares the knowledge of the deed, the conscience always come out - even if it is unintentional. “I have strong hope in your complete recovery and rehabilitation,” he tells the Portuguese “colleague” whom he has never met.
Endless column inches have been devoted to this eternal mystery but the truth is that Gonçalo Amaral has been fighting for his professional credibility in an arena bereft of mainstream support.
It is this reality that prompted Ulrich Merz’ hand-written letter which comes in the wake of rumblings from the UK that the Metropolitan Police may at last be considering a renewed scale back of the multi-million pound investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
By NATASHA DONN natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
How does this differ from the viewpoint of the other ex-detective Merz, that we have just been discussing for the last few hours?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2015, 07:16:22 PM
Well it's eminently clear certain people don't like what the ex-detective has said.
Something tells me, he will now be at the receiving end of of bile from certain mccann backers.
%£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#
It has started already! How long before we have words like b**h and h*n. It is so f*****g predictable. Push this button here and that motor over there fires up @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2015, 07:30:26 PM
It has started already! How long before we have words like b**h and h*n. It is so f*****g predictable. Push this button here and that motor over there fires up @)(++(*
You've nailed them to the post. 8@??)( 8@??)( 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 02, 2015, 07:37:18 PM
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on April 02, 2015 Ex-detective adds his voice to the legions backing disgraced Maddie cop
A former German detective with years of experience working on murder investigations has added his voice to the legions of people backing disgraced Madeleine cop Gonçalo Amaral.
Ulrich Merz, 60, was in Praia da Luz on the day Madeleine went missing in 2007. He has been following the various investigations ever since with the eye of a trained professional.
...............
PortugalPress. I've never heard of it so far.
Ulrich Merz. I've never heard of him so far.
Dang, he puts himself in Luz on the day Madeleine went missing. AND he is an expert in crime? That's just what we need to make him the prime suspect, no?
It's an interesting yarn, by a reporter on a small media outlet I have never heard of, making a claim that cannot be substantiated on evidence that will not be disclosed.
It's jolly fun. Thank you for this. It was much appreciated. But it is going into my red herrings folder.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 02, 2015, 11:11:08 PM
Dang, he puts himself in Luz on the day Madeleine went missing. AND he is an expert in crime? That's just what we need to make him the prime suspect, no?
It's an interesting yarn, by a reporter on a small media outlet I have never heard of, making a claim that cannot be substantiated on evidence that will not be disclosed.
It's jolly fun. Thank you for this. It was much appreciated. But it is going into my red herrings folder.
8@??)( How very perceptive of you, Shining.
I agree 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 03, 2015, 03:07:33 PM
Oh, I see that I have a new avatar @)(++(*
Wonder where that came from?
Who is she?
Thanks, I have got my old one back.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 07, 2015, 12:01:25 AM
Just for those who dismiss the possibility of alien abduction....
Embassy for aliens in Portugal Raelian Movement wants to build building for extraterrestrials. By John Fernandes Silva
The Raelian Movement in Portugal have sent the Portuguese Government a letter proposing the construction project of an extraterrestrial embassy in Portuguese territory. The embassy of the construction project is presented to the public this Saturday at the Hotel Tivoli in Lisbon, between 15h00 and 19h30. The aim of the movement is to ensure Portugal in the creation of an embassy to the aliens allegedly "responsible for human creation" can return safely to the planet. [see infographics] Sightings of aliens worldwide For those who never heard of the Raelian Movement may seem strange, but already has more than 80,000 members in 70 countries. He was born in 1973 when the French Claude Vorilhon, known as Rael, had an alleged alien encounter and took as its mission to "prepare the population to receive their creators," according to the official website. That is why "we need to prepare an official embassy," explain the members of that movement. The building must ensure the basic needs and rights of its occupants in order to prove that humanity is ready for an official meeting with extraterrestrials. The dream embassy "The ideal was the embassy be built in Israel," says the CM Marco Antunes, coordinator responsible for the movement in Portugal. "The Elohim, the beings we believe were responsible for the creation of traditional religions and transmitted certain information to certain individuals throughout history, which eventually give rise to religions," said the also architect of the project presented. However, the constant wars in the acclaimed Holy Land caused Rael, the founder of the international movement, decided to try elsewhere. "It has been requested authorization to Brazil to build the embassy there, now we decided to take the initiative" in Portugal, explains Marco Antunes, complaining of bureaucracy required to bring a project of these forward "even if there is money." Now that there is money, lack the political authorization. That's why Marco Antunes sent a letter to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Machete, and the Minister for Regional Planning, Jorge Moreira da Silva, to explain the idea and ask for support. The letter "is all explained," guarantees, but hope is not much. "Let's see if they react, how do we do this on a global scale. And also we sent the proposal to the UN, we are only waiting for an answer when it take a global proportion," explains while complaining of the Portuguese mentality. "In Portugal it's all drag, you know? Do not take advantage of the ideas, the only copied what others already have," he lamented. What is the Raelian Movement? It is a movement founded in 1973 by Claude Vorilhon (now known as Rael), after it allegedly had an alien encounter with a being from another planet, in central France. According account, this extraterrestrial gave him detailed explanations of human origin and information about the future. Rael took as its mission to inform humanity of this message and prepare the population to receive their creators. He founded the Raelian Movement that already has today more than 70,000 members in 70 countries. The Raelians are not "a religion in the traditional sense," despite believing in entities whose existence has not been proven by science, explains Marco Antunes. However, neither is "to talk about UFO and aliens". According explains the movement's representative in Portugal, speak of the future of humanity, lifestyle and what they can do "to improve the planet." In Portugal there are 15 active people in events promoted by the movement and "50 who believe" and appear at the meetings. But the numbers are much higher among Portuguese emigrant communities in France and Canada. "As the movements are bigger there, there are also more people," he explains. ====================================================
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on April 07, 2015, 01:30:44 PM
Personally, I'm not much into aliens, but I do wonder if known "religious communities" were checked out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 07, 2015, 01:56:52 PM
Personally, I'm not much into aliens, but I do wonder if known "religious communities" were checked out.
The death of respected lawyer and political activist Willie McRae has been controversial for many years. One of the main questions raised being the fact that two vehicle recovery firms claimed independently to have removed the vehicle from the scene. Another being the position of the gun if used by a suicide.
A bit of digging by students unearthed facts which had lain undiscovered and perhaps a cover up by the police at the time caused by embarrassment that they had failed to notice a gunshot wound to the head prior to moving the vehicle.
If this is the standard of investigative work we can expect from future journalists the future looks good.
It is probably work of this sort carried out by the officers of Operation Grange which has enabled the reopening of Madeleine McCann's case ... just as there were inconsistencies in the McRae case ... inconsistencies in the McCann case may have become apparent when looked at in depth ... I do not refer to the inconsistencies from the myth factory, I refer to real ones.
McRae conspiracy theories now laid to rest
THE road where Willie McRae died is one of the most scenic drives in the Highlands, affording magnificent views of mountain, loch, sky and hill. A small cairn has been built just off the A87 near the spot where, 30 years ago tomorrow, the lawyer and SNP office-bearer was found fatally injured in his car with what turned out to be a bullet in his head. In the years since, the case of Willie McRae has become something of a cause célèbre – at last year’s Edinburgh Festival Fringe there were two plays about his death, and folk songs have been written about it. The case has also been the inspiration for many conspiracy theories.
In part, these theories stemmed from McRae’s range of political interests and his firebrand personality – he was a charismatic politician who pursued the establishment on a range of issues, including the dumping of nuclear waste.
But the most compelling reason to see something amiss in the official account of McRae’s death was a number of glaring inconsistencies – including the fact that the hand-gun McRae was said to have used to commit suicide was found some distance from the car.
Now, an exemplary piece of journalism for Scotland on Sunday by students from Strathclyde University’s Investigative Journalism post-graduate course, has solved a 30-year mystery.
By examining the gaps in the story, and double checking every assertion and presumed fact, they have uncovered proof that the car was moved when it appeared to be a simple road traffic accident – and then returned when the hospital treating McRae found the bullet.
There are questions about why that initial misjudgment – a foolish mistake, albeit an innocent one – was never owned up to by the authorities. Perhaps the senior police officers and Crown officials were too embarrassed to admit a simple error. And yet all they succeeded in doing was to create an air of suspicion that has lasted for 30 years.
No doubt some conspiracy adherents will continue to insist McRae was murdered by the British state. The grassy knoll is a comfortable spot from which to view a bewildering world.
But for most reasonable people, today’s Scotland on Sunday revelations are the final chapter in a story three decades in the telling. http://www.scotsman.com/news/leaders-nickileaks-mcrae-theory-laid-to-rest-1-3738659
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on April 18, 2015, 02:23:09 AM
Does anyone know when the judgement is due in the Mccanns v Amaral trial in Portugal?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on April 18, 2015, 08:53:35 AM
Judge = Melo de Castro Gonc = Goncalo de Sousa Amaral
I have, more than 5 connections between those names, Goegraphical and bloodline, but I cant find them all at the moment..
1. Geographical = The village of Goncalo is only 12 miles from Melo in a remote Jewish valley to the east of PT Goncalo is only about a mile[ish] from Seixo Amarelo and Melo is only about 11 miles from Seixo Amarelo
2. There is a Rua Sousa, Melo e Alvim in Sao Paulo, Brazil
3. Intermarriage between the Sousa's and the Melos
Jun 2nd 1887 Marriage of Francisco Julio Sousa Pinto = Maria Jose Pereira de Gouveia de Queiroz e Melo
4. http://www.geni.com/people/Maria-Jos%C3%A9-Queir%C3%B3z-e-Melo/6000000021284371189 and http://www.geni.com/profile/6000000021284371189/events/6000000021516337987 and http://www.geni.com/profile/6000000021284371189/events/6000000021284389196
2 jul. 2014 ... Genealogy for Maria José Pereira de Gouveia de Queiróz e Melo (1867 ... Maria José De Sousa-pinto (born De Queirós E Melo) in MyHeritage ...
Sept 19th 1867 Birth of Maria Jose Pereira de Gouveia de Queiroz e Melo [Villages of Melo and Goncalo are in Gouveia province]
Date unknown: Birth of Francisco Julio Sousa Pinto
Jun 2nd 1887 Marriage of Francisco Julio Sousa Pinto = Maria Jose Pereira de Gouveia de Queiroz e Melo
March 23rd 1888 Birth of Rodrigo de Queiros e Melo[/b] de Sousa [/color] Pinto ..... at Ferreira de Zizere PT
Date unknown: Birth of Alberto Queiros e Melo e Sousa e Pinto Date unknown: Birth of Maria Louisa de Queiros e Melo e Sousa Pinto
To put this in perspective,
Just from this eaxmple alone, three peoople who are from Amarals bloodlines mixed with the Melo bloodline
My father was born in the early 1890's and so the children of these people could still be around as I am.
5. And then there was the link between the names in the Duchess of Braganzas ancestry page. I have already posted that.
6. The Amarals are married to the Castros {Amaral de Castro], so another link. There is even a porn group called Amaralys- Castro £4%4% £4%4£
There are other intermarriages which I am not going into
There will likely be family pressure and maybe even quasi-royal pressure on the Judge.
As a judge, Melo and Castro should be completely professional. I hope she is
As I say, I worry about this judgement
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on April 18, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Sadie, as far as I know, there aren't that many surnames in Portugal, but it doesn't mean that everyone with a common surname is related.
It seems that there are all kinds of historical reasons for common Portugese surnames, just as there are in many other countries.
Not all people named "Smith" belong to the same family hierarchy.
The 1755 Lisbon earthquakes had quite an influence on the country as a whole in terms of attempts to register who had survived and who hadn't. I'll add a link to that when I find it.
Sadie, as far as I know, there aren't that many surnames in Portugal, but it doesn't mean that everyone with a common surname is related.
It seems that there are all kinds of historical reasons for common Portugese surnames, just as there are in many other countries.
Not all people named "Smith" belong to the same family hierarchy.
The 1755 Lisbon earthquakes had quite an influence on the country as a whole in terms of attempts to register who had survived and who hadn't. I'll add a link to that when I find it.
Judge = Melo de Castro Gonc = Goncalo de Sousa Amaral
I have, more than 5 connections between those names, Goegraphical and bloodline, but I cant find them all at the moment..
1. Geographical = The village of Goncalo is only 12 miles from Melo in a remote Jewish valley to the east of PT Goncalo is only about a mile[ish] from Seixo Amarelo and Melo is only about 11 miles from Seixo Amarelo
2. There is a Rua Sousa, Melo e Alvim in Sao Paulo, Brazil
3. Intermarriage between the Sousa's and the Melos
Jun 2nd 1887 Marriage of Francisco Julio Sousa Pinto = Maria Jose Pereira de Gouveia de Queiroz e Melo
4. http://www.geni.com/people/Maria-Jos%C3%A9-Queir%C3%B3z-e-Melo/6000000021284371189 and http://www.geni.com/profile/6000000021284371189/events/6000000021516337987 and http://www.geni.com/profile/6000000021284371189/events/6000000021284389196
2 jul. 2014 ... Genealogy for Maria José Pereira de Gouveia de Queiróz e Melo (1867 ... Maria José De Sousa-pinto (born De Queirós E Melo) in MyHeritage ...
Sept 19th 1867 Birth of Maria Jose Pereira de Gouveia de Queiroz e Melo [Villages of Melo and Goncalo are in Gouveia province]
Date unknown: Birth of Francisco Julio Sousa Pinto
Jun 2nd 1887 Marriage of Francisco Julio Sousa Pinto = Maria Jose Pereira de Gouveia de Queiroz e Melo
March 23rd 1888 Birth of Rodrigo de Queiros e Melo[/b] de Sousa [/color] Pinto ..... at Ferreira de Zizere PT
Date unknown: Birth of Alberto Queiros e Melo e Sousa e Pinto Date unknown: Birth of Maria Louisa de Queiros e Melo e Sousa Pinto
To put this in perspective,
Just from this eaxmple alone, three peoople who are from Amarals bloodlines mixed with the Melo bloodline
My father was born in the early 1890's and so the children of these people could still be around as I am.
5. And then there was the link between the names in the Duchess of Braganzas ancestry page. I have already posted that.
6. The Amarals are married to the Castros {Amaral de Castro], so another link. There is even a porn group called Amaralys- Castro £4%4% £4%4£
There are other intermarriages which I am not going into
There will likely be family pressure and maybe even quasi-royal pressure on the Judge.
As a judge, Melo and Castro should be completely professional. I hope she is
As I say, I worry about this judgement
This is plainly silly/ a joke or ignorant! Using surnames and spurious connections between them to come to a conclusion of a bad decision by a judge?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 19, 2015, 12:57:39 AM
Sadie, as far as I know, there aren't that many surnames in Portugal, but it doesn't mean that everyone with a common surname is related.
It seems that there are all kinds of historical reasons for common Portugese surnames, just as there are in many other countries.
Not all people named "Smith" belong to the same family hierarchy.
The 1755 Lisbon earthquakes had quite an influence on the country as a whole in terms of attempts to register who had survived and who hadn't. I'll add a link to that when I find it.
From their names, I believe that The Melos, The Castros,The Goncalos, The de Sousas and The Amarals are Jewish and some, maybe all, are from Templar bloodline origins.
Some may be in exclusive Secret Societies, of which there are a number still operating. The Templars are reputed to have several Secret Societies. Dan Brown based his books on real Secret Societies and it is said on the internet that most are still running.
Bloodlines are all important to these people, The Templars, because historically, through the ages, they were joined together by their being monks, who adventured far and wide. More importantly by battles that they fought, they lived and died together. They grew rich together via setting up the early banking systems for wealthy travellers.
They shared everything and after the Templars were forced to flee and hide from the destruction brought about by King Philip of France [and Pope Clementine, we are told on some sites] formed Secret Brotherhoods . He/ they were killing them all off.
Incedentally this massive swoop upon the Templars started on Friday, October 13th 1307. It is thought that this event is probably the origin of bad luck being associated with Friday the 13th
Of course within bloodline family names there will be multiple "strings" and blood cousins far removed from each other. That goes without saying. And quite probably most of the "strings" will have little or no interest in Secret Societies etc.,
.... but I think that we should be aware of these definite links as shown in my post above.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 19, 2015, 09:31:55 AM
Judge = Melo de Castro Gonc = Goncalo de Sousa Amaral
I have, more than 5 connections between those names, Goegraphical and bloodline, but I cant find them all at the moment..
1. Geographical = The village of Goncalo is only 12 miles from Melo in a remote Jewish valley to the east of PT Goncalo is only about a mile[ish] from Seixo Amarelo and Melo is only about 11 miles from Seixo Amarelo
2. There is a Rua Sousa, Melo e Alvim in Sao Paulo, Brazil
3. Intermarriage between the Sousa's and the Melos
Jun 2nd 1887 Marriage of Francisco Julio Sousa Pinto = Maria Jose Pereira de Gouveia de Queiroz e Melo
4. http://www.geni.com/people/Maria-Jos%C3%A9-Queir%C3%B3z-e-Melo/6000000021284371189 and http://www.geni.com/profile/6000000021284371189/events/6000000021516337987 and http://www.geni.com/profile/6000000021284371189/events/6000000021284389196
2 jul. 2014 ... Genealogy for Maria José Pereira de Gouveia de Queiróz e Melo (1867 ... Maria José De Sousa-pinto (born De Queirós E Melo) in MyHeritage ...
Sept 19th 1867 Birth of Maria Jose Pereira de Gouveia de Queiroz e Melo [Villages of Melo and Goncalo are in Gouveia province]
Date unknown: Birth of Francisco Julio Sousa Pinto
Jun 2nd 1887 Marriage of Francisco Julio Sousa Pinto = Maria Jose Pereira de Gouveia de Queiroz e Melo
March 23rd 1888 Birth of Rodrigo de Queiros e Melo[/b] de Sousa [/color] Pinto ..... at Ferreira de Zizere PT
Date unknown: Birth of Alberto Queiros e Melo e Sousa e Pinto Date unknown: Birth of Maria Louisa de Queiros e Melo e Sousa Pinto
To put this in perspective,
Just from this eaxmple alone, three peoople who are from Amarals bloodlines mixed with the Melo bloodline
My father was born in the early 1890's and so the children of these people could still be around as I am.
5. And then there was the link between the names in the Duchess of Braganzas ancestry page. I have already posted that.
6. The Amarals are married to the Castros {Amaral de Castro], so another link. There is even a porn group called Amaralys- Castro £4%4% £4%4£
There are other intermarriages which I am not going into
There will likely be family pressure and maybe even quasi-royal pressure on the Judge.
As a judge, Melo and Castro should be completely professional. I hope she is
As I say, I worry about this judgement
You made the accusations, so now, mercury, please back up your statements with facts
.... or withdraw and apologize
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 19, 2015, 09:51:27 AM
From their names, I believe that The Melos, The Castros,The Goncalos, The de Sousas and The Amarals are Jewish and some, maybe all, are from Templar bloodline origins.
Some may be in exclusive Secret Societies, of which there are a number still operating. The Templars are reputed to have several Secret Societies. Dan Brown based his books on real Secret Societies and it is said on the internet that most are still running.
Bloodlines are all important to these people, The Templars, because historically, through the ages, they were joined together by their being monks, who adventured far and wide. More importantly by battles that they fought, they lived and died together. They grew rich together via setting up the early banking systems for wealthy travellers.
They shared everything and after the Templars were forced to flee and hide from the destruction brought about by King Philip of France [and Pope Clementine, we are told on some sites] formed Secret Brotherhoods . He/ they were killing them all off.
Incedentally this massive swoop upon the Templars started on Friday, October 13th 1307. It is thought that this event is probably the origin of bad luck being associated with Friday the 13th
Of course within bloodline family names there will be multiple "strings" and blood cousins far removed from each other. That goes without saying. And quite probably most of the "strings" will have little or no interest in Secret Societies etc.,
.... but I think that we should be aware of these definite links as shown in my post above.
Your history of the Knights Templar seems to be a little a puddled. I wouldn't recommend websites on the subject as your source of authority.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on April 19, 2015, 07:15:47 PM
From their names, I believe that The Melos, The Castros,The Goncalos, The de Sousas and The Amarals are Jewish and some, maybe all, are from Templar bloodline origins.
Some may be in exclusive Secret Societies, of which there are a number still operating. The Templars are reputed to have several Secret Societies. Dan Brown based his books on real Secret Societies and it is said on the internet that most are still running.
Bloodlines are all important to these people, The Templars, because historically, through the ages, they were joined together by their being monks, who adventured far and wide. More importantly by battles that they fought, they lived and died together. They grew rich together via setting up the early banking systems for wealthy travellers.
They shared everything and after the Templars were forced to flee and hide from the destruction brought about by King Philip of France [and Pope Clementine, we are told on some sites] formed Secret Brotherhoods . He/ they were killing them all off.
Incedentally this massive swoop upon the Templars started on Friday, October 13th 1307. It is thought that this event is probably the origin of bad luck being associated with Friday the 13th
Of course within bloodline family names there will be multiple "strings" and blood cousins far removed from each other. That goes without saying. And quite probably most of the "strings" will have little or no interest in Secret Societies etc.,
.... but I think that we should be aware of these definite links as shown in my post above.
I know you feel you are some sort of super sleuth but relying on the Internet for good information about "secret societies" is a no win situation, there are a lot of hits and most if them are crap.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on April 19, 2015, 11:09:19 PM
The judge hasn't yet told us what her decision is ... in the meantime we all wait agog.
???
What does it matter if the judge has decreed or not, the argument was about whether she would be biased because she alledgedly came from an alledged bloodline.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2015, 12:50:47 AM
What does it matter if the judge has decreed or not, the argument was about whether she would be biased because she alledgedly came from an alledged bloodline.
We all come from a bloodline, mercury, and I don't remember making any mention of whether the judge might be influenced by hers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 20, 2015, 01:23:39 AM
What does it matter if the judge has decreed or not, the argument was about whether she would be biased because she alledgedly came from an alledged bloodline.
As far as I am concerned, there is no argument. She is a professional and should put family bonds behind her ... and hopefully she will.
However, I have to admit, I shall watch her verdict rather closely because of the multiple ways that her family bloodlines Melo and Castro are connected to the family bloodlines of Goncalo de Sousa Amaral via marriage and via the Quasi Royals.
And even more so because of the remote Jewish valley that her family the Melos share with the Goncalos and the Amarals
It is better that people are aware, because there could be a conflict of interests, could there not?
Am I right that in British Courts, Judges have to announce if there is a potential "Conflict of Interest?"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 20, 2015, 09:15:43 AM
I know you feel you are some sort of super sleuth but relying on the Internet for good information about "secret societies" is a no win situation, there are a lot of hits and most if them are crap.
You know all about it.
What Secret Society are you a member of, then, Slarti?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carew on April 20, 2015, 09:18:02 AM
As far as I am concerned, there is no argument. She is a professional and should put family bonds behind her ... and hopefully she will.
However, I have to admit, I shall watch her verdict rather closely because of the multiple ways that her family bloodlines Melo and Castro are connected to the family bloodlines of Goncalo de Sousa Amaral via marriage and via the Quasi Royals.
And even more so because of the remote Jewish valley that her family the Melos share with the Goncalos and the Amarals
It is better that people are aware, because there could be a conflict of interests, could there not?
Am I right that in British Courts, Judges have to announce if there is a potential "Conflict of Interest?"
............Maybe you are setting the groundwork to discredit the judgement should it not turn out as you would wish?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2015, 10:43:03 AM
............Maybe you are setting the groundwork to discredit the judgement should it not turn out as you would wish?
There have been too many cases that have been "strange in their judgements" in PT
And actually what I am doing is making sure that the people that could have clout in PT are aware that we know of potential *Conflicts of Interest.*
Better to place them in the open beforehand, rather than squabble about them after judgement. IMO
But if necessary we shall have to.
I feel so sorry for the poor woman Judge, Emilie Melo de Castro, should she be getting hassle from family members / her origins ... *IF* that *IS* happening.
Hopefully she will stay professional and take no notice of people that MIGHT put pressure on her.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 20, 2015, 11:23:08 AM
There was an article in the Correio da Manhã (Portugal Morning Post) yesterday entitled...
Listening to the Silence of the Lambs.**
"Two children were murdered and many thousands continue to be at risk. Officials explain how they can be helped."
** The above article appeared in the printed edition of the paper and is only available to view on the internet for subscribers. Do any of our Portuguese members have a copy? TY
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on April 20, 2015, 11:43:31 AM
My thoughts exactly. We have had the rubbishing of the Portuguese police, now the Judiciary are going to get it.
IMO they successfully rubbished themselves when they allowed a policeman who was not only an arguido himself, but was made one because he was suspected of serious wrongdoing in his previous missing child case - to be the lead investigator. That was one serious blunder IMO.
IIRC there have been plenty of acknowledgements of the hard work many PJ officers put in. Unfortunately the lead investigator and his no. 2 - Tavares were not amongst them IMO. The fact that they both ended up with criminal records speaks for itself.
I have a completely open mind re the judge in the present case. However with the laws that she will have to abide by and apply being so different to ours here in the UK I am not at all confident that the McCanns will succeed. That will not be the judge's fault IMO as she is obliged to follow the rules of her own country. It goes without saying that had the same case been held in this country, they would have won hands down. IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 20, 2015, 12:16:46 PM
IMO they successfully rubbished themselves when they allowed a policeman who was not only an arguido himself, but was made one because he was suspected of serious wrongdoing in his previous missing child case - to be the lead investigator. That was one serious blunder IMO.
IIRC there have been plenty of acknowledgements of the hard work many PJ officers put in. Unfortunately the lead investigator and his no. 2 - Tavares were not amongst them IMO. The fact that they both ended up with criminal records speaks for itself.
I have a completely open mind re the judge in the present case. However with the laws that she will have to abide by and apply being so different to ours here in the UK I am not at all confident that the McCanns will succeed. That will not be the judge's fault IMO as she is obliged to follow the rules of her own country. It goes without saying that had the same case been held in this country, they would have won hands down. IMO.
To be fair, the PJ bosses didn't realise what they were getting themselves into from the off. Amaral came straight from another missing child case so no doubt it was considered that his experience there was a perfect fit.
As someone pointed out to me the other day, hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 12:39:02 PM
To be fair, the PJ bosses didn't realise what they were getting themselves into from the off. Amaral came straight from another missing child case so no doubt it was considered that his experience there was a perfect fit.
As someone pointed out to me the other day, hindsight is a wonderful thing!
But The PJ already knew that Amaral was about to be made Arguido on the very next day, so hardly hindsight. They knew that Leonor Cipriano had been tortured by certain factions of The PJ, and that Amaral was implicated. That stinks of arrogance to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 12:40:39 PM
IMO they successfully rubbished themselves when they allowed a policeman who was not only an arguido himself, but was made one because he was suspected of serious wrongdoing in his previous missing child case - to be the lead investigator. That was one serious blunder IMO.
IIRC there have been plenty of acknowledgements of the hard work many PJ officers put in. Unfortunately the lead investigator and his no. 2 - Tavares were not amongst them IMO. The fact that they both ended up with criminal records speaks for itself.
I have a completely open mind re the judge in the present case. However with the laws that she will have to abide by and apply being so different to ours here in the UK I am not at all confident that the McCanns will succeed. That will not be the judge's fault IMO as she is obliged to follow the rules of her own country. It goes without saying that had the same case been held in this country, they would have won hands down. IMO.
It's not so very different - EU law is the same in both countries. Plus even in London you'd have the exact same issue with level of damages.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 12:44:04 PM
But The PJ already knew that Amaral was about to be made Arguido on the very next day, so hardly hindsight. They knew that Leonor Cipriano had been tortured by certain factions of The PJ, and that Amaral was implicated. That stinks of arrogance to me.
How did they know that? Who could possibly know exactly what happened and who did what but the people there at the time? Who could possibly know exact details before investigation and possible legal process?
GA was arguido but we're told that when the McCanns were arguido it didn't mean suspect. But when GA was it did?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 12:55:09 PM
How did they know that? Who could possibly know exactly what happened and who did what but the people there at the time?
He was arguido but we're told that when the McCanns were arguido it didn't mean suspect. But when GA was it did?
Are you saying that The PJ didn't know that Amaral was to be made Arguido? Didn't know that Amaral was implicated?
I still haven't fathomed what Arguido means, but it certainly means that there is some reason for doubt in any case. And a PJ Officer simply should not have been in any sort of charge of a similar situation.
Were it not for the final outcome, one might well have felt some sympathy for Amaral. But he was Convicted by a Portuguese Court, wherein I am told Miscarriages of Justice never happen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 20, 2015, 12:55:55 PM
But The PJ already knew that Amaral was about to be made Arguido on the very next day, so hardly hindsight. They knew that Leonor Cipriano had been tortured by certain factions of The PJ, and that Amaral was implicated. That stinks of arrogance to me.
The arguido or defendant status was no impediment to him working as were the torture claims until such time as they were properly investigated. If every police officer was suspended every time a defendant made a complaint against them I fear we would have no police on the ground at all.
I do agree however that as time went on and given the Cipriano debacle, he should have been replaced the minute it was seen as something other than a straight forward missing child case and that she would be found quickly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 01:00:04 PM
Are you saying that The PJ didn't know that Amaral was to be made Arguido? Didn't know that Amaral was implicated?
I still haven't fathomed what Arguido means, but it certainly means that there is some reason for doubt in any case. And a PJ Officer simply should not have been in any sort of charge of a similar situation.
Were it not for the final outcome, one might well have felt some sympathy for Amaral. But he was Convicted by a Portuguese Court, wherein I am told Miscarriages of Justice never happen.
You said the PJ knew Cipriano had been tortured (by their own officers). How did they know that before investigation?
All they knew was there had been an allegation?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 01:18:46 PM
You said the PJ knew Cipriano had been tortured (by their own officers). How did they know that before investigation?
All they knew was there had been an allegation?
Leonor Cipriano was tortured in 2004, so some three years later The PJ still didn't know this? Surely some sort of Investigation has to be done before anyone is made Arguido. Or did they just pick on any old person?
And I am certain sure that The PJ know exactly who was in that Police Station during those hours, and more or less what they were up to. They just couldn't prove it. At least, I hope that was the case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 20, 2015, 01:20:14 PM
Possibly a bit off topic but has anyone ever wondered why Amaral would do what he did unless he was convinced that he was right? He had a good job and a future with the PJ but he chose to put that all in jeopardy and for what?
Amaral could have just as easily gone with the flow and closed the case for lack of evidence and moved on to something new but he didn't. Why?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 01:22:21 PM
The arguido or defendant status was no impediment to him working as were the torture claims until such time as they were properly investigated. If every police officer was suspended every time a defendant made a complaint against them I fear we would have no police on the ground at all.
I do agree however that as time went on and given the Cipriano debacle, he should have been replaced the minute it was seen as something other than a straight forward missing child case and that she would be found quickly.
Are you saying that they didn't properly investigate the situation before Amaral was made Arguido? Mind you, in the light of The McCanns this was always possible.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 01:25:53 PM
Possibly a bit off topic but has anyone ever wondered why Amaral would do what he did unless he was convinced that he was right? He had a good job and a future with the PJ but he chose to put that all in jeopardy and for what?
Erm, his buddy Cristovao had made two small fortunes writing books. And his wife by her own admission was pissed off by the fact that her husband had been passed over for promotion yet again. So God only knows how pissed off he was.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 20, 2015, 01:37:41 PM
Are you saying that they didn't properly investigate the situation before Amaral was made Arguido? Mind you, in the light of The McCanns this was always possible.
It would never have been investigated to the extent it was had Leonor not benefitted from free legal aid thanks to Correia, Metodo 3 and their paymaster.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 20, 2015, 01:39:58 PM
Erm, his buddy Cristovao had made two small fortunes writing books. And his wife by her own admission was pissed off by the fact that her husband had been passed over for promotion yet again. So God only knows how pissed off he was.
A fair point Eleanor. We can only but assume he was passed over for promotion because of the Cipriano allegations but the need to write a book?
My own view is that he genuinely believed in what he was doing, whether he still does is another question?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 01:41:52 PM
Possibly a bit off topic but has anyone ever wondered why Amaral would do what he did unless he was convinced that he was right? He had a good job and a future with the PJ but he chose to put that all in jeopardy and for what?
Amaral could have just as easily gone with the flow and closed the case for lack of evidence and moved on to something new but he didn't. Why?
I think there's not much doubt he believes he's right. It wasn't just a financial decision to write it - if it had been he could simply have made it less controversial and it still would have sold. That applies to the film also, which is even more controversial.
There are other books written by investigators in other cases and they are very much motivated by the thought: if they themselves do not act in the interest of the child, who will?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 01:44:49 PM
A fair point Eleanor. We can only but assume he was passed over for promotion because of the Cipriano allegations but the need to write a book?
My own view is that he genuinely believed in what he was doing, whether he still does is another question?
I think so, and people are still overlooking he isn't alone in that courtroom - there are three other defendants (all of them organisations, not individuals) still resolute seven years later.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 01:57:01 PM
Leonor Cipriano was tortured in 2004, so some three years later The PJ still didn't know this? Surely some sort of Investigation has to be done before anyone is made Arguido. Or did they just pick on any old person?
And I am certain sure that The PJ know exactly who was in that Police Station during those hours, and more or less what they were up to. They just couldn't prove it. At least, I hope that was the case.
I don't know how far the investigation had got by May 4 2007, but the fact it was only on that day he was made arguido implies it was not near completion? If it was arguido status would have been reached earlier?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2015, 02:08:32 PM
I think so, and people are still overlooking he isn't alone in that courtroom - there are three other defendants (all of them organisations, not individuals) still resolute seven years later.
All of whom refused to reach an out of court settlement also.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 02:16:42 PM
A fair point Eleanor. We can only but assume he was passed over for promotion because of the Cipriano allegations but the need to write a book?
My own view is that he genuinely believed in what he was doing, whether he still does is another question?
I tend to agree that he did somewhat believe in what he was doing, totally devoid of detecting skills though it was. But you do have to wonder for why he seems to favour women for the dirty deed. The men only seem to be brought in because a woman couldn't do alone what he believes. His general attitude to women leaves a lot to be desired.
The book just amounted to loads a money, which he was never going to get from The PJ.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 02:19:15 PM
It would never have been investigated to the extent it was had Leonor not benefitted from free legal aid thanks to Correia, Metodo 3 and their paymaster.
Now that is a really sad thing to say.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 02:21:28 PM
I don't know how far the investigation had got by May 4 2007, but the fact it was only on that day he was made arguido implies it was not near completion? If it was arguido status would have been reached earlier?
Did Amaral ask for Arguido Status. Or was it imposed? I think we need to know.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 20, 2015, 02:25:15 PM
I don't know how far the investigation had got by May 4 2007, but the fact it was only on that day he was made arguido implies it was not near completion? If it was arguido status would have been reached earlier?
Perhaps they couldn't ignore it any longer, since Amnesty International were getting involved.
Two and a half years after the event, was it? And don't forget that Amaral damned himself. The evidence against him was by his own hand. Is that how long it takes in Portugal?
Sorry, I meant "Took" rather than "Takes" because I do believe that Portugal is trying to clean up the corrupt elements.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 02:40:33 PM
Perhaps they couldn't ignore it any longer, since Amnesty International were getting involved.
Two and a half years after the event, was it? And don't forget that Amaral damned himself. The evidence against him was by his own hand. Is that how long it takes in Portugal?
Sorry, I meant "Took" rather than "Takes" because I do believe that Portugal is trying to clean up the corrupt elements.
Are you therefore accusing Amaral of torture, or if not, by proxy ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 02:44:57 PM
You all want the ins and outs of the cat's backside when it comes to The McCanns. And I personally think that it is important.
Did Amaral use his superior knowledge of The Portuguese Justice System. Or did that system use him? Did he in fact refuse to answer questions?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2015, 02:48:15 PM
When it comes to covering up illegal activities, this country is definitely culpable, in aiding and abetting illegal rendition of potential terrorist suspects. I presume similar events took place in Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 02:49:35 PM
Are you therefore accusing Amaral of torture, or if not, by proxy ?
Don't be silly, Stephen. Amaral was convicted of Perjury, which by his own hand was proven. But I do believe that he knew what was going on. That much is obvious. Otherwise why lie about it in a Court of Law.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 02:51:37 PM
When it comes to covering up illegal activities, this country is definitely culpable, in aiding and abetting illegal rendition of potential terrorist suspects. I presume similar events took place in Northern Ireland.
Not what we are discussing, Stephen. So stop trying to derail. And that is just my personal opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 02:52:08 PM
Perhaps they couldn't ignore it any longer, since Amnesty International were getting involved.
Two and a half years after the event, was it? And don't forget that Amaral damned himself. The evidence against him was by his own hand. Is that how long it takes in Portugal?
Sorry, I meant "Took" rather than "Takes" because I do believe that Portugal is trying to clean up the corrupt elements.
Hmmm. Do you know how many years back some (i.e. most) of the investigations into the Met's activity go?
I really don't think we have any right to be 'casting stones'.
It's no surprise that police everywhere are slow to investigate themselves.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2015, 02:56:02 PM
Don't be silly, Stephen. Amaral was convicted of Perjury, which by his own hand was proven. But I do believe that he knew what was going on. That much is obvious. Otherwise why lie about it in a Court of Law.
and you really believe that 'professional' people don't cover up for other colleagues/friends in this country, when they have committed illegal or suspicious activities ?
It seems self evident that has happened in this country with the paedophile scandal.
As to the Cipriano's , they got the sentences they deserved.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 20, 2015, 03:31:31 PM
and you really believe that 'professional' people don't cover up for other colleagues/friends in this country, when they have committed illegal or suspicious activities ?
It seems self evident that has happened in this country with the paedophile scandal.
As to the Cipriano's , they got the sentences they deserved.
It is one thing to cover up dubious/illegal activities for friends - but it is quite another to send people to jail for a crime they did not commit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 03:33:35 PM
It is one thing to cover up dubious/illegal activities for friends - but it is quite another to send people to jail for a crime they did not commit.
It happens all over the world. In some places more than others. The UK has had more than it's fair share without the excuse of only being forty years out of a dictatorship.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2015, 04:58:57 PM
It happens all over the world. In some places more than others. The UK has had more than it's fair share without the excuse of only being forty years out of a dictatorship.
It happens everywhere, but is it acceptable? Many of the exonerations in the US were due to DNA evidence proving that people who had "confessed" weren't in fact guilty. If you don't lock down a suspected crime scene and do a proper forensic investigation, then there won't be any forensics to re-examine.
There was no blood found in that home attributable to the child. A bit odd in view of the blood-bath that was supposed to have occurred that evening.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2015, 05:36:22 PM
It happens everywhere, but is it acceptable? Many of the exonerations in the US were due to DNA evidence proving that people who had "confessed" weren't in fact guilty. If you don't lock down a suspected crime scene and do a proper forensic investigation, then there won't be any forensics to re-examine.
There was no blood found in that home attributable to the child. A bit odd in view of the blood-bath that was supposed to have occurred that evening.
If we were to look at convictions with confessions where the accused was later acquitted I'm sure we would find...below average intelligence...as a common factor. the police find it easy to bully these people.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2015, 06:34:45 PM
TOPIC, PLEASE.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 20, 2015, 06:36:56 PM
I can't believe all you armchair detectives haven't picked up on the latest developments in the William Tyrell case, which I posted on the appropriate thread. "When two worlds collide". I shudder to think what would have happened had William gone missing in Portugal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 07:16:06 PM
I can't believe all you armchair detectives haven't picked up on the latest developments in the William Tyrell case, which I posted on the appropriate thread. "When two worlds collide". I shudder to think what would have happened had William gone missing in Portugal.
&%&£(+ Does every other post have to insult Portugal?
I think you'll find Portuguese police don't shoot unarmed people every week, including people running away, run them down in cars or sit on them until they suffocate. Yet when people mention things or cases in the US they don't feel obliged to insult the country in every other sentence. This is xenophobia, tailored for your ideological reasons to of course be mainly aimed at Portugal.
You do realise I assume that it was the xenophobia shown by the English in 2007 that turned many away from the McCanns in 2007. Exactly as you and allies are doing yourselves now - every hour of the day. And that helps Madeleine, how?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 20, 2015, 07:23:25 PM
&%&£(+ Does every other post have to insult Portugal?
I think you'll find Portuguese police don't shoot unarmed people every week, including people running away, run them down in cars or sit on them until they suffocate. Yet when people mention things or cases in the US they don't feel obliged to insult the country in every other sentence. This is xenophobia, tailored for your ideological reasons to of course be mainly aimed at Portugal.
The case in question refers to a missing child. Most developed countries do not have police forces which display such an air of authority & secrecy as the Portuguese did/do, whilst at the same time failing in so many basic areas.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2015, 08:06:30 PM
The case in question refers to a missing child. Most developed countries do not have police forces which display such an air of authority & secrecy as the Portuguese did/do, whilst at the same time failing in so many basic areas.
Well, you've made a blanket statement about Portugal.
Now show other countries are better.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 20, 2015, 08:25:42 PM
Well, you've made a blanket statement about Portugal.
Now show other countries are better.
Please refer to the William Tyrell story as a classic example of a police force doing things in the correct fashion. You can also look at missing person Jon Anderson Edwards in Portugal to see that interest in missing Brits is still dealt with in the same cigarette-smoking, nonchalant manner as displayed after Madeleine disappeared.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 08:33:19 PM
Please refer to the William Tyrell story as a classic example of a police force doing things in the correct fashion. You can also look at missing person Jon Anderson Edwards in Portugal to see that interest in missing Brits is still dealt with in the same cigarette-smoking, nonchalant manner as displayed after Madeleine disappeared.
What exactly are you praising the police for in the Tyrell case?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2015, 08:33:55 PM
Please refer to the William Tyrell story as a classic example of a police force doing things in the correct fashion. You can also look at missing person Jon Anderson Edwards in Portugal to see that interest in missing Brits is still dealt with in the same cigarette-smoking, nonchalant manner as displayed after Madeleine disappeared.
That comment reveals pure xenophobia.
A hallmark of many mccann supporters.
Watch the news in this country about UK police forces and what they fail to do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Vulcair Anasak on April 20, 2015, 08:47:44 PM
Watch the news in this country about UK police forces and what they fail to do.
I am well aware of the failures of the UK police force. However, I think you will agree they deal extremely well on the whole with missing children cases, especially when foul play is suspected. I am not xenophobic. I am merely against those elements in the Portuguese police who have their own agendas & look upon the system as a tool for abuse.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 20, 2015, 09:00:15 PM
I am well aware of the failures of the UK police force. However, I think you will agree they deal extremely well on the whole with missing children cases, especially when foul play is suspected. I am not xenophobic. I am merely against those elements in the Portuguese police who have their own agendas & look upon the system as a tool for abuse.
Well you have your agenda on here to back the mccanns, and therefore denigrate the PJ.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2015, 09:01:58 PM
I am well aware of the failures of the UK police force. However, I think you will agree they deal extremely well on the whole with missing children cases, especially when foul play is suspected. I am not xenophobic. I am merely against those elements in the Portuguese police who have their own agendas & look upon the system as a tool for abuse.
No, British police in fact make mistakes in many cases including many recent high profile ones. The difference is the press and public don't blame them for it because all missing child cases in particular in any country are different and difficult.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Vulcair Anasak on April 20, 2015, 09:05:14 PM
I am well aware of the failures of the UK police force. However, I think you will agree they deal extremely well on the whole with missing children cases, especially when foul play is suspected. I am not xenophobic. I am merely against those elements in the Portuguese police who have their own agendas & look upon the system as a tool for abuse.
Sorry, but you can hardly blame the Portuguese police, lots countries even Britain have many faults in their systems and police force.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 20, 2015, 09:20:32 PM
No, British police in fact make mistakes in many cases including many recent high profile ones. The difference is the press and public don't blame them for it because all missing child cases in particular in any country are different and difficult.
There can be few more difficult than little William, missing from outdoors in a fairly remote area. However, 8 months down the line the Aussies haven't given up & decided he must have wandered into the Bush or his mother/gran killed him & fed him to the dingos. Compare that to the attitude of the man who, by that stage, had already signed his book deal and his replacement with files full of information & leads deemed irrelevant.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on April 20, 2015, 09:30:07 PM
There can be few more difficult than little William, missing from outdoors in a fairly remote area. However, 8 months down the line the Aussies haven't given up & decided he must have wandered into the Bush or his mother/gran killed him & fed him to the dingos. Compare that to the attitude of the man who, by that stage, had already signed his book deal and his replacement with files full of information & leads deemed irrelevant.
Well the Australians must have evidence then that indicates they should look elsewhere. The Portuguese (and British police) had none.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 20, 2015, 09:36:41 PM
Have you read the latest news, Lyall? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5793.0
Please don't say the Portuguese had no evidence. There were plenty of aspects they failed to follow up.
There are always loose ends in any case in any country, but it is a fact they had no evidence pointing elsewhere at the moment the dogs alerted. Police in any country would take those alerts seriously, and you should remember when Kate walked into the police station in September it was to be questioned alone for the very first time. That's hardly persecution.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2015, 09:51:59 PM
There can be few more difficult than little William, missing from outdoors in a fairly remote area. However, 8 months down the line the Aussies haven't given up & decided he must have wandered into the Bush or his mother/gran killed him & fed him to the dingos. Compare that to the attitude of the man who, by that stage, had already signed his book deal and his replacement with files full of information & leads deemed irrelevant.
Fair play to the Aussies
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: DCI on April 20, 2015, 10:02:14 PM
There are always loose ends in any case in any country, but it is a fact they had no evidence pointing elsewhere at the moment the dogs alerted. Police in any country would take those alerts seriously, and you should remember when Kate walked into the police station in September it was to be questioned alone for the very first time. That's hardly persecution.
Kate was only questioned once before September 6th. Except for the unofficial interview in August, and Gerry was told to leave, the room.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on April 21, 2015, 08:17:17 AM
Sorry, but you can hardly blame the Portuguese police, lots countries even Britain have many faults in their systems and police force.
When a child goes missing in the UK we have an alert which goes out to the public to say a child is missing. If that child goes missing from a home you expect that home to be cordoned off as it is a crime scene. The police here question the parents as they have to be investigated too [not three months later] The crime scene is forensically investigated [not three months later] The crime scene does not have other families staying in it. Items from the crime scene are kept [the bedding from Madeleine's bed went in the wash]
The police in the UK after a thorough search for the child would probably think to themselves, this child could have been abducted, they would alert the border to Spain the ferry, the airports, this was not done straight away it was hours later. The police here would think of speaking to the neighbours Mrs. Fenn was not interviewed until three months later.
I would think that all of the above would have been routine work for the police of the UK.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 21, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
Of course there are other cases in the UK where there have been abject failures by the force & its methods. People are not perfect & neither is forensic science. This link provides an example of how the science used as evidence to obtain a conviction in one era can be discredited in the future and could be particularly relevant to the MM case. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fbi-overstated-forensic-hair-matches-in-nearly-all-criminal-trials-for-decades/2015/04/18/39c8d8c6-e515-11e4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html
However, you do expect the police force, in an EU country so dependent on tourism for its economy, to be properly trained & equipped to deal with crime in their locale. A quick look at comments on Trip Advisor regarding the attitude of Algarve police about crime is indicative of how unimportant even now the issue is to their country's reputation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 21, 2015, 11:04:15 PM
General Discussion About The Latest News. Thank You.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on April 24, 2015, 12:14:31 AM
When a child goes missing in the UK we have an alert which goes out to the public to say a child is missing. If that child goes missing from a home you expect that home to be cordoned off as it is a crime scene. The police here question the parents as they have to be investigated too [not three months later] The crime scene is forensically investigated [not three months later] The crime scene does not have other families staying in it. Items from the crime scene are kept [the bedding from Madeleine's bed went in the wash]
The police in the UK after a thorough search for the child would probably think to themselves, this child could have been abducted, they would alert the border to Spain the ferry, the airports, this was not done straight away it was hours later. The police here would think of speaking to the neighbours Mrs. Fenn was not interviewed until three months later.
I would think that all of the above would have been routine work for the police of the UK.
Just like tia sharpe sitting rotting in the loft for a week, yes, the british police are so much better always
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 24, 2015, 12:18:06 AM
Despite four searches by police officers using sniffer dogs, it was not until a specialist dog was taken in, that Tia's remains were founds
A so-called ‘cadaver dog’, trained to detect the smell of decomposition, indicated that it was coming from the loft. This time, after removing an overfilled bin bag, officers found Tia wrapped in a ‘body shaped package’ within three feet of the hatch.
He added that the PC who first searched the loft was ‘inexperienced’ and he was given ‘words of advice’, the lowest form of disciplinary sanction. The officer has since volunteered to stop undertaking searches. His sergeant, who was responsible for supervising the search, also received ‘words of advice’.
Despite four searches by police officers using sniffer dogs, it was not until a specialist dog was taken in, that Tia's remains were founds
A so-called ‘cadaver dog’, trained to detect the smell of decomposition, indicated that it was coming from the loft. This time, after removing an overfilled bin bag, officers found Tia wrapped in a ‘body shaped package’ within three feet of the hatch.
He added that the PC who first searched the loft was ‘inexperienced’ and he was given ‘words of advice’, the lowest form of disciplinary sanction. The officer has since volunteered to stop undertaking searches. His sergeant, who was responsible for supervising the search, also received ‘words of advice’.
Who needs a specialist dog when the human nose does the job equally as well?
Tia Sharp's body only found when police noticed smell of decomposition
It took police three search attempts at grandmother's house before girl's body, wrapped in sheet and plastic, was found in loft
Press Association Monday 13 May 2013 12.49 BST
Police twice unsuccessfully searched the loft where Tia Sharp's body was hidden but only discovered her on the third attempt.
Tia's body was found wrapped in a sheet and layers of plastic in the loft of her grandmother's home on 10 August last year, a week after she went missing.
It was only when detectives noticed a smell of decomposition upstairs in Christine Bicknell's house that Tia was finally found.
A police constable first went into the loft on 4 August, climbing up on a stool balanced on a chair.
He said: "I was searching for a missing girl and from what I could see the loft seemed very clear. I thought: 'She is not hiding in here.'"
The following day a specialist team came in; one officer said he would have recognised the smell of a decomposing body if it had been apparent.
His colleague said he took about 25 minutes to search the loft, including moving black bags around that the team believed were too light to contain anything significant.
Later, a search dog was brought to the house in New Addington, south London, and indicated that there was something above one of the bedrooms, but the animal was too large to take into the loft.
On 10 August a detective noticed the smell of decomposition in the house, which Bicknell mistakenly thought was cat faeces.
Another dog also indicated that something might be in the loft of the house and Tia's body was then found.
Detective Constable Daniel Chatfield, who found Tia's body as he and a crime scene manager searched the loft, said: "The loft was extremely confined, it was very hot and quite chaotic, so there were a lot of boxes and bags around the hatch entrances which needed to be moved in order to search further into the loft.
"After about 10 minutes my colleague Mr Langley had alerted me to what he believed to be the body of Tia."
In the wake of Tia's death, Scotland Yard apologised to her family that it had taken so long to find her.
The smell of decomposition was such that a human could detect it ... something to be remembered and considered when pushing the ridiculous theory about Madeleine McCann's body being transported around Luz in the Portuguese heat.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 24, 2015, 10:03:22 AM
Who needs a specialist dog when the human nose does the job equally as well?
Tia Sharp's body only found when police noticed smell of decomposition
It took police three search attempts at grandmother's house before girl's body, wrapped in sheet and plastic, was found in loft
Press Association Monday 13 May 2013 12.49 BST
Police twice unsuccessfully searched the loft where Tia Sharp's body was hidden but only discovered her on the third attempt.
Tia's body was found wrapped in a sheet and layers of plastic in the loft of her grandmother's home on 10 August last year, a week after she went missing.
It was only when detectives noticed a smell of decomposition upstairs in Christine Bicknell's house that Tia was finally found.
A police constable first went into the loft on 4 August, climbing up on a stool balanced on a chair.
He said: "I was searching for a missing girl and from what I could see the loft seemed very clear. I thought: 'She is not hiding in here.'"
The following day a specialist team came in; one officer said he would have recognised the smell of a decomposing body if it had been apparent.
His colleague said he took about 25 minutes to search the loft, including moving black bags around that the team believed were too light to contain anything significant.
Later, a search dog was brought to the house in New Addington, south London, and indicated that there was something above one of the bedrooms, but the animal was too large to take into the loft.
On 10 August a detective noticed the smell of decomposition in the house, which Bicknell mistakenly thought was cat faeces.
Another dog also indicated that something might be in the loft of the house and Tia's body was then found.
Detective Constable Daniel Chatfield, who found Tia's body as he and a crime scene manager searched the loft, said: "The loft was extremely confined, it was very hot and quite chaotic, so there were a lot of boxes and bags around the hatch entrances which needed to be moved in order to search further into the loft.
"After about 10 minutes my colleague Mr Langley had alerted me to what he believed to be the body of Tia."
In the wake of Tia's death, Scotland Yard apologised to her family that it had taken so long to find her.
The smell of decomposition was such that a human could detect it ... something to be remembered and considered when pushing the ridiculous theory about Madeleine McCann's body being transported around Luz in the Portuguese heat.
Yes, so hot that the Tapas 9 were wearing every item of clothing they had to keep warm and Gerald asked relatives flying out to bring them some warm clothes.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 24, 2015, 10:45:36 AM
Topic, Please. Discussion about The latest News.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 01, 2015, 11:08:08 AM
No further action will be taken against dozens of people accused of directing online abuse at the McCanns, Sky sources have revealed.
Anti-abuse campaigners had compiled a dossier of names after becoming alarmed at the threatening nature of some tweets and posts.
Leicestershire Police Assistant Chief Constable Roger Bannister said: "While finding that much of the material was extremely distasteful and unpleasant in nature, it was determined that none of the messages/postings constituted a prosecutable offence."
No further action will be taken against dozens of people accused of directing online abuse at the McCanns, Sky sources have revealed.
Anti-abuse campaigners had compiled a dossier of names after becoming alarmed at the threatening nature of some tweets and posts.
Leicestershire Police Assistant Chief Constable Roger Bannister said: "While finding that much of the material was extremely distasteful and unpleasant in nature, it was determined that none of the messages/postings constituted a prosecutable offence."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 01, 2015, 11:11:50 AM
Kate McCann "more driven than ever" to find Madeleine
As the eighth anniversary of Madeleine McCann's disappearance in the Algarve approaches, her mother Kate says she is determined to continue the search
By Nicola Harley12:01AM BST 01 May 2015
Kate McCann says she is "more driven than ever" to continue the search for her missing daughter Madeleine ahead of the eighth anniversary of her disappearance. Madeleine was three when she went missing from her family's holiday apartment in Portugal's Algarve on May 3 2007 as her parents, Kate and Gerry, dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends. Mrs McCann, who is fundraising for Missing People, of which she is an ambassador, has spoken out as she announced that she will lead a 500-mile charity bike ride from Edinburgh to London in June to raise £10,000.
She said: "As the eighth anniversary of our daughter Madeleine's abduction is upon us, I'm more driven than ever to continue the search for Madeleine and to help other families who face the pain of a child being missing. All of us can play a part in helping this important charity."
Mrs McCann will lead 20 cyclists on a Cycle Challenge starting at Arthur's Seat, Edinburgh's landmark hill, on June 13. They will then take in Newcastle, York, Nottingham and Northampton before finishing at the Tower of London on June 17. Madeleine's disappearance is one of the most famous missing persons cases of all time. Last week her parents won a libel payout against Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, who had been on trial over claims he made in a book and a documentary that the couple were involved in Madeleine's disappearance in Praia da Luz.
In a written verdict, a Lisbon court agreed that Mr Amaral should pay Mr and Mrs McCann £179,000 each in damages and it banned further sales of his book, The Truth Of The Lie. British police officers spent eight days searching three areas of land in Praia da Luz last June, close to where Madeleine disappeared, but found no new evidence. The Metropolitan Police launched their own operation in 2011.
Missing People is launching a fundraising effort alongside Mrs McCann's ride. £MissforMay encourages people to give up a luxury for May and donate the money they save. Its chief executive, Jo Youle, said: "We are hugely grateful to Kate McCann for taking on this incredible challenge to help missing people and their families across the UK." To donate to Kate McCann's Cycle Challenge visit http://www.justgiving.com/KateMcCann
it led to the death of brenda though that Is illegal
This comment doesn't make sense. What Brenda had to say could have led to the death of someone, but her comments weren't Illegal. Is that because no one killed themselves?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: OxfordBloo on May 01, 2015, 01:40:38 PM
it led to the death of brenda though that Is illegal
No it is not illegal. There is no such crime.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2015, 12:05:36 PM
The fact that Summers and Swan are promoting a book on the subject is interesting but not nearly as much as the fact that the spate of home invasions in and around Luz when Madeleine McCann disappeared did in some cases yield forensic samples.
Perhaps matching them with those remaining from the McCann apartment may provide or may already have provided leads in what may still be a solvable case. Which makes the botched initial sweep of the apartment all the more regrettable.
Madeleine Police Probe More Break-Ins Detectives are following a new line of inquiry, ahead of the eighth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
British detectives searching for Madeleine McCann have discovered more of the holiday apartment burglaries they believe hold the key to solving the case.
They had been investigating 18 break-ins in which intruders entered the bedrooms of young, mostly British girls.
Now they are probing 28 such burglaries, Sky News has learned.
Forensic evidence is being tested against findings from the apartment from where Madeleine vanished eight years ago.
The development in the Scotland Yard investigation is revealed by authors Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan in a new edition of their recent book Looking For Madeleine.
Summers said: "Our source told us that after stumbling across 18 burglaries last year, they have now discovered a total of 28 in the area of Praia da Luz in the years around 2007 when Madeleine disappeared.
"It gives them a much better chance of matching evidence against forensics from the McCann apartment.
"I was told there was great sensitivity around this forensic testing, nobody wants to discuss it, but they are making progress and believe the case is solvable."
The author said in the past few days the Home Office had agreed to continue its controversial funding of the British investigation which has now cost more than £10m.
Summers said: "Officials meet the police every three months to review spending and only last week told them there was no financial or political pressure to cut back."
Madeleine was nearly four when she vanished from the family's rented holiday apartment on 3 May eight years ago. It's thought she was abducted.
Portuguese police abandoned their investigation after 15 months without establishing any clues to the mystery and for three years there was no official search for Madeleine.
With Home Office backing, Scotland Yard began a review of evidence in 2011 and then launched a full-scale investigation two years ago.
The London branch leader of the police union the Police Federation said recently that funding of the investigation could not be justified in the wake of continuing public spending cuts which have hit all forces.
Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann have said they are "more driven than ever" to continue the search for their daughter. http://news.sky.com/story/1476413/madeleine-police-probe-more-break-ins? Modify message
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lyall on May 02, 2015, 12:09:37 PM
"Our source told us..."
As it was in 2007 so it is in 2015.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 02, 2015, 12:13:39 PM
But it is probably true the UK police did get this year's funding for Madeleine's case.
I thought O.G. was being paid for out of a "special" fund the P.M. has ? So until the P.M. turns off the tap or the head of The Met says there is no point carrying on, the money will continue to be spent without effect on The Met's budget.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 03, 2015, 12:47:56 AM
THE luxury home where former Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, central to the Madeleine McCann investigation, hoped to spend his retirement is boarded up and desolate.
By JAMES MURRAY PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, May 3, 2015
But the property, in millionaires’ development Cerro Azul, near the town of Olhao, has been seized as an asset by a Lisbon court which last week ruled that Amaral must pay the McCanns 500,000 euros (£357,000) compensation for allegations he made in his book.
Amaral suggested that evidence showed that Madeleine died in the apartment from which she went missing, a claim that caused the McCanns untold distress. They are still searching for their daughter, who, if alive, would be 12 on May 12.
Guard dogs patrol inside the house while Amaral, who is now broke, lives with his father in Lisbon following his divorce from his wife Sofi a. She lives with their teenage daughter hundreds of miles away in Faro – a city that the abandoned property overlooks.
A family friend said: “He bought the property about 10 years ago as an investment and as somewhere to live with his family during retirement but events have taken a different turn. “The property is an asset of the court. He still has a loan, which would have to be paid back, with the rest potentially going to the McCanns, leaving him without anywhere to live except his father’s small home. “Everything he has worked for all his life could be lost.”
To help pay his legal fees, a fund in Portugal has raised about £5,000 and now a woman living in England, Leanne Baulch, has set up a “gofundme” crowd funding site, which has raised £3,000.
After analysing the judgment from judge Maria Castro, Amaral has decided to appeal, which could take two years, buying him time to raise more money. Describing the judgment as “unfair” he says he will appeal until the “very last judicial instance”, which signals it could end up in Portugal’s Supreme Court or the European Court of Human Rights.
Supporters point to a section of the judgment saying it was a proven fact that British police dogs detected the scent of human blood and a cadaver in Apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, from where Madeleine vanished eight years ago today.
Amaral used this evidence to suggest in his book that Madeleine had died in the apartment, a theory vehemently rejected by the McCanns who still hope that she is alive somewhere.
The judge felt Amaral’s theory caused the McCanns anger, despair and anguish but she said it was not proven that they had been destroyed from a moral, social and family point of view beyond the pain that the absence of their daughter causes them
The couple had sought 500,000 euros compensation for Madeleine and 100,000 euros for each of their twins Sean and Amelie, now 10, but the judge threw that out. She has still to decide if Amaral had the right to promote his theories under freedom of expression.
While the legal dispute looks set to last for a further five years, the anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance is being quietly remembered in Luz.
On the noticeboard of the Nossa Senhora yellow and white church, where the McCanns regularly prayed, there is no mention of Madeleine or the special prayers which will be said there today.
There are no pictures or posters of her and the only visible sign of the case is on Stop street signs. Someone using a sophisticated stencil has added “McCann Circus”, highlighting the view of many who feel the case should be forgotten and people should be allowed to get on with their lives.
Despite the costly Scotland Yard and Portuguese police investigation, the Sunday Express found that key witnesses have still not been spoken to. Jenny Murat, 78, the mother of wrongly accused Robert Murat, has potentially breakthrough evidence but no one has spoken to her. At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a and saw a woman hanging around. Her notes from the time say: “There was a woman standing on the corner under a lamp post.
“I don’t remember much of her other than she was of slight build and was wearing a plum coloured jacket. She moved around the lamp post as if trying not to be noticed.”
As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates I could not see the car but the woman was in the road looking in my direction.”
After her son was wrongly made an arguido (Portuguese for suspect), she contacted Hugo Swire, a Tory MP in Devon, and Leicestershire police about her sighting but, astonishingly, she has not been interviewed to this day.
Speaking at home this week, she told the Sunday Express: “I am happy to speak to Scotland Yard. This woman was just outside Apartment 5a and it didn’t look right. It could be relevant.”
After 12 years she has put Casa Liliana up for sale. “It is very sad but the place has become a tourist attraction for all the wrong reasons,” she said. “I get people banging on my gate and someone broke in once. I don’t feel safe. Robert’s life has been badly damaged by lies. It never goes away, it never ends. It gets you down She will live with her daughter, Sammy, in Devon, but Robert, wife Michaela and their four-year-old son will remain on the Algarve.
“I might buy a small flat in Luz but we will see,” said Jenny. “It is not the same place"
THE luxury home where former Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, central to the Madeleine McCann investigation, hoped to spend his retirement is boarded up and desolate.
By JAMES MURRAY PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, May 3, 2015
But the property, in millionaires’ development Cerro Azul, near the town of Olhao, has been seized as an asset by a Lisbon court which last week ruled that Amaral must pay the McCanns 500,000 euros (£357,000) compensation for allegations he made in his book.
Amaral suggested that evidence showed that Madeleine died in the apartment from which she went missing, a claim that caused the McCanns untold distress. They are still searching for their daughter, who, if alive, would be 12 on May 12.
Guard dogs patrol inside the house while Amaral, who is now broke, lives with his father in Lisbon following his divorce from his wife Sofi a. She lives with their teenage daughter hundreds of miles away in Faro – a city that the abandoned property overlooks.
A family friend said: “He bought the property about 10 years ago as an investment and as somewhere to live with his family during retirement but events have taken a different turn. “The property is an asset of the court. He still has a loan, which would have to be paid back, with the rest potentially going to the McCanns, leaving him without anywhere to live except his father’s small home. “Everything he has worked for all his life could be lost.”
To help pay his legal fees, a fund in Portugal has raised about £5,000 and now a woman living in England, Leanne Baulch, has set up a “gofundme” crowd funding site, which has raised £3,000.
After analysing the judgment from judge Maria Castro, Amaral has decided to appeal, which could take two years, buying him time to raise more money. Describing the judgment as “unfair” he says he will appeal until the “very last judicial instance”, which signals it could end up in Portugal’s Supreme Court or the European Court of Human Rights.
Supporters point to a section of the judgment saying it was a proven fact that British police dogs detected the scent of human blood and a cadaver in Apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, from where Madeleine vanished eight years ago today.
Amaral used this evidence to suggest in his book that Madeleine had died in the apartment, a theory vehemently rejected by the McCanns who still hope that she is alive somewhere.
The judge felt Amaral’s theory caused the McCanns anger, despair and anguish but she said it was not proven that they had been destroyed from a moral, social and family point of view beyond the pain that the absence of their daughter causes them
The couple had sought 500,000 euros compensation for Madeleine and 100,000 euros for each of their twins Sean and Amelie, now 10, but the judge threw that out. She has still to decide if Amaral had the right to promote his theories under freedom of expression.
While the legal dispute looks set to last for a further five years, the anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance is being quietly remembered in Luz.
On the noticeboard of the Nossa Senhora yellow and white church, where the McCanns regularly prayed, there is no mention of Madeleine or the special prayers which will be said there today.
There are no pictures or posters of her and the only visible sign of the case is on Stop street signs. Someone using a sophisticated stencil has added “McCann Circus”, highlighting the view of many who feel the case should be forgotten and people should be allowed to get on with their lives.
Despite the costly Scotland Yard and Portuguese police investigation, the Sunday Express found that key witnesses have still not been spoken to. Jenny Murat, 78, the mother of wrongly accused Robert Murat, has potentially breakthrough evidence but no one has spoken to her. At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a and saw a woman hanging around. Her notes from the time say: “There was a woman standing on the corner under a lamp post.
“I don’t remember much of her other than she was of slight build and was wearing a plum coloured jacket. She moved around the lamp post as if trying not to be noticed.”
As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates I could not see the car but the woman was in the road looking in my direction.”
After her son was wrongly made an arguido (Portuguese for suspect), she contacted Hugo Swire, a Tory MP in Devon, and Leicestershire police about her sighting but, astonishingly, she has not been interviewed to this day.
Speaking at home this week, she told the Sunday Express: “I am happy to speak to Scotland Yard. This woman was just outside Apartment 5a and it didn’t look right. It could be relevant.”
After 12 years she has put Casa Liliana up for sale. “It is very sad but the place has become a tourist attraction for all the wrong reasons,” she said. “I get people banging on my gate and someone broke in once. I don’t feel safe. Robert’s life has been badly damaged by lies. It never goes away, it never ends. It gets you down She will live with her daughter, Sammy, in Devon, but Robert, wife Michaela and their four-year-old son will remain on the Algarve.
“I might buy a small flat in Luz but we will see,” said Jenny. “It is not the same place"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2015, 01:37:56 AM
THE luxury home where former Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, central to the Madeleine McCann investigation, hoped to spend his retirement is boarded up and desolate.
By JAMES MURRAY PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, May 3, 2015
But the property, in millionaires’ development Cerro Azul, near the town of Olhao, has been seized as an asset by a Lisbon court which last week ruled that Amaral must pay the McCanns 500,000 euros (£357,000) compensation for allegations he made in his book.
Amaral suggested that evidence showed that Madeleine died in the apartment from which she went missing, a claim that caused the McCanns untold distress. They are still searching for their daughter, who, if alive, would be 12 on May 12.
Guard dogs patrol inside the house while Amaral, who is now broke, lives with his father in Lisbon following his divorce from his wife Sofi a. She lives with their teenage daughter hundreds of miles away in Faro – a city that the abandoned property overlooks.
A family friend said: “He bought the property about 10 years ago as an investment and as somewhere to live with his family during retirement but events have taken a different turn. “The property is an asset of the court. He still has a loan, which would have to be paid back, with the rest potentially going to the McCanns, leaving him without anywhere to live except his father’s small home. “Everything he has worked for all his life could be lost.”
To help pay his legal fees, a fund in Portugal has raised about £5,000 and now a woman living in England, Leanne Baulch, has set up a “gofundme” crowd funding site, which has raised £3,000.
After analysing the judgment from judge Maria Castro, Amaral has decided to appeal, which could take two years, buying him time to raise more money. Describing the judgment as “unfair” he says he will appeal until the “very last judicial instance”, which signals it could end up in Portugal’s Supreme Court or the European Court of Human Rights.
Supporters point to a section of the judgment saying it was a proven fact that British police dogs detected the scent of human blood and a cadaver in Apartment 5a of the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, from where Madeleine vanished eight years ago today.
Amaral used this evidence to suggest in his book that Madeleine had died in the apartment, a theory vehemently rejected by the McCanns who still hope that she is alive somewhere.
The judge felt Amaral’s theory caused the McCanns anger, despair and anguish but she said it was not proven that they had been destroyed from a moral, social and family point of view beyond the pain that the absence of their daughter causes them
The couple had sought 500,000 euros compensation for Madeleine and 100,000 euros for each of their twins Sean and Amelie, now 10, but the judge threw that out. She has still to decide if Amaral had the right to promote his theories under freedom of expression.
While the legal dispute looks set to last for a further five years, the anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance is being quietly remembered in Luz.
On the noticeboard of the Nossa Senhora yellow and white church, where the McCanns regularly prayed, there is no mention of Madeleine or the special prayers which will be said there today.
There are no pictures or posters of her and the only visible sign of the case is on Stop street signs. Someone using a sophisticated stencil has added “McCann Circus”, highlighting the view of many who feel the case should be forgotten and people should be allowed to get on with their lives.
Despite the costly Scotland Yard and Portuguese police investigation, the Sunday Express found that key witnesses have still not been spoken to. Jenny Murat, 78, the mother of wrongly accused Robert Murat, has potentially breakthrough evidence but no one has spoken to her. At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a and saw a woman hanging around. Her notes from the time say: “There was a woman standing on the corner under a lamp post.
“I don’t remember much of her other than she was of slight build and was wearing a plum coloured jacket. She moved around the lamp post as if trying not to be noticed.”
As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates I could not see the car but the woman was in the road looking in my direction.”
After her son was wrongly made an arguido (Portuguese for suspect), she contacted Hugo Swire, a Tory MP in Devon, and Leicestershire police about her sighting but, astonishingly, she has not been interviewed to this day.
Speaking at home this week, she told the Sunday Express: “I am happy to speak to Scotland Yard. This woman was just outside Apartment 5a and it didn’t look right. It could be relevant.”
After 12 years she has put Casa Liliana up for sale. “It is very sad but the place has become a tourist attraction for all the wrong reasons,” she said. “I get people banging on my gate and someone broke in once. I don’t feel safe. Robert’s life has been badly damaged by lies. It never goes away, it never ends. It gets you down She will live with her daughter, Sammy, in Devon, but Robert, wife Michaela and their four-year-old son will remain on the Algarve.
“I might buy a small flat in Luz but we will see,” said Jenny. “It is not the same place"
Sofia was at pains to let the world know the pittance that her husband received in a salary from the PJ. So two years before he became an infamous author and darling of the TV studios Mr Amaral bought a luxury property, at a time when he was being sued for defrauding his brother and as was later revealed to be extensively in debt, not least to the tax authorities.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on May 03, 2015, 01:49:19 AM
Sofia was at pains to let the world know the pittance that her husband received in a salary from the PJ. So two years before he became an infamous author and darling of the TV studios Mr Amaral bought a luxury property, at a time when he was being sued for defrauding his brother and as was later revealed to be extensively in debt, not least to the tax authorities.
Very interesting isn't it? And all these boozy shell fish dinners that we are told about too. They all cost money.
... And where did he get his diamond earring from ?
Have you googled Cerro Azul, Olhao and looked at Google street scene? Rather palatial for a cop who doesn't earn much money. Where did he get the funding, I wonder?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 03, 2015, 01:57:11 AM
Sofia was at pains to let the world know the pittance that her husband received in a salary from the PJ. So two years before he became an infamous author and darling of the TV studios Mr Amaral bought a luxury property, at a time when he was being sued for defrauding his brother and as was later revealed to be extensively in debt, not least to the tax authorities.
To be fair this was the newspaper which also called the Ocean Club ' a luxury holiday complex'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on May 03, 2015, 03:47:35 AM
I thought O.G. was being paid for out of a "special" fund the P.M. has ? So until the P.M. turns off the tap or the head of The Met says there is no point carrying on, the money will continue to be spent without effect on The Met's budget.
The fact that Summers and Swan are promoting a book on the subject is interesting but not nearly as much as the fact that the spate of home invasions in and around Luz when Madeleine McCann disappeared did in some cases yield forensic samples.
Perhaps matching them with those remaining from the McCann apartment may provide or may already have provided leads in what may still be a solvable case. Which makes the botched initial sweep of the apartment all the more regrettable.
Madeleine Police Probe More Break-Ins Detectives are following a new line of inquiry, ahead of the eighth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
British detectives searching for Madeleine McCann have discovered more of the holiday apartment burglaries they believe hold the key to solving the case.
They had been investigating 18 break-ins in which intruders entered the bedrooms of young, mostly British girls.
Now they are probing 28 such burglaries, Sky News has learned.
Forensic evidence is being tested against findings from the apartment from where Madeleine vanished eight years ago.
The development in the Scotland Yard investigation is revealed by authors Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan in a new edition of their recent book Looking For Madeleine.
Summers said: "Our source told us that after stumbling across 18 burglaries last year, they have now discovered a total of 28 in the area of Praia da Luz in the years around 2007 when Madeleine disappeared.
"It gives them a much better chance of matching evidence against forensics from the McCann apartment.
"I was told there was great sensitivity around this forensic testing, nobody wants to discuss it, but they are making progress and believe the case is solvable."
The author said in the past few days the Home Office had agreed to continue its controversial funding of the British investigation which has now cost more than £10m.
Summers said: "Officials meet the police every three months to review spending and only last week told them there was no financial or political pressure to cut back."
Madeleine was nearly four when she vanished from the family's rented holiday apartment on 3 May eight years ago. It's thought she was abducted.
Portuguese police abandoned their investigation after 15 months without establishing any clues to the mystery and for three years there was no official search for Madeleine.
With Home Office backing, Scotland Yard began a review of evidence in 2011 and then launched a full-scale investigation two years ago.
The London branch leader of the police union the Police Federation said recently that funding of the investigation could not be justified in the wake of continuing public spending cuts which have hit all forces.
Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann have said they are "more driven than ever" to continue the search for their daughter. http://news.sky.com/story/1476413/madeleine-police-probe-more-break-ins? Modify message
Only a halfwit keeping up with this case would believe this nonsense, oh well. I suppose it takes all sorts. Thanks for posting,
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 03, 2015, 12:14:19 PM
Sort of; it confirms that The Met are not funding it out of their budget.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 03, 2015, 05:19:52 PM
As with most communities and especially holiday resorts there are bound to be dozens of break-ins and attempted break-ins, many of which also go undetected or unreported for all sorts of reasons. These latest so-called revelations touted around by author Anthony Summers to our national Press as if they were something new or novel is yet another example of the desperation of some to keep this story going at all costs.
By the way, where are these spectacular reveals promised by Summer and Swan?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 03, 2015, 05:24:56 PM
As with most communities and especially holiday resorts there are bound to be dozens of break-ins and attempted break-ins, many of which also go undetected or unreported for all sorts of reasons. These latest so-called revelations touted around by author Anthony Summers to our national Press as if they were something new or novel is yet another example of the desperation of some to keep this story going at all costs.
By the way, where are these spectacular reveals promised by Summer and Swan?
They are not telling. You have to buy the book in order to learn that there are none @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 03, 2015, 06:03:07 PM
As with most communities and especially holiday resorts there are bound to be dozens of break-ins and attempted break-ins, many of which also go undetected or unreported for all sorts of reasons. These latest so-called revelations touted around by author Anthony Summers to our national Press as if they were something new or novel is yet another example of the desperation of some to keep this story going at all costs.
By the way, where are these spectacular reveals promised by Summer and Swan?
I must have missed the promise of "spectacular reveals" by S & S - where and when did they promise them?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 03, 2015, 06:37:01 PM
I must have missed the promise of "spectacular reveals" by S & S - where and when did they promise them?
Didn't it claim to be the most definite account possible and also claimed to demonstrate that speculation surrounding the McCanns involvement in their daughter's fate was unfounded?
Such hogwash!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 03, 2015, 06:39:28 PM
Didn't it claim to be the most definite account possible and also claimed to demonstrate that speculation surrounding the McCanns involvement in their daughter's fate was unfounded?
Such hogwash!
So, no "spectacular reveals" promised then, after all. The book is without doubt the most definitive account of the case yet committed to print, even if it doesn't satisfy your demand that it demonstrates the McCanns' innocence of involvement.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 03, 2015, 07:07:50 PM
As with most communities and especially holiday resorts there are bound to be dozens of break-ins and attempted break-ins, many of which also go undetected or unreported for all sorts of reasons. These latest so-called revelations touted around by author Anthony Summers to our national Press as if they were something new or novel is yet another example of the desperation of some to keep this story going at all costs.
By the way, where are these spectacular reveals promised by Summer and Swan?
I presume they are selling it in softback as opposed to hardback.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 04, 2015, 01:03:54 AM
So, no "spectacular reveals" promised then, after all. The book is without doubt the most definitive account of the case yet committed to print, even if it doesn't satisfy your demand that it demonstrates the McCanns' innocence of involvement.
The most definitive account that barely mentions the last occasion anyone, apart from her parents, saw Madeleine alive.
You are kidding ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on May 04, 2015, 01:19:34 AM
Madeleine McCann's parents unable to attend 8th anniversary of daughters' disappearance as her grandfather is ill
00:21, 4 May 2015 By Tracey Kandohla
A message from Kate McCann was read out at an annual prayer service in her home village vowing: “The will to find Madeleine is still as great"
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Madeleine McCann ’s parents were unable to attend the eighth anniversary of her disappearance yesterday because her grandfather is ill.
A message from Kate McCann was read out at an annual prayer service in her home village vowing: “The will to find Madeleine is still as great.”
Explaining Kate and husband Gerry ’s absence at an outdoor gathering for family, friends and locals, Maddie’s great-aunt Janet Kennedy said: “Sadly they cannot be here as Kate’s dad is not well.”
Former GP Kate, 47, and heart doctor Gerry, 46, were comforting her 75-year-old dad Brian Healy who is suffering from Parkinson’s disease, at his Liverpool home.
PA Madeleine was three when she disappeared from her room in Portugal
They had earlier prayed for their missing eldest child during mass at a nearby church.
Janet, reading a message from Kate to crowds of well wishers, said: “We are sorry we’re not with you but thank you for coming together and sharing your hope and love for Madeleine. The will to find her is still as great.
“One positive out of this horrible situation of Madeleine’s abduction is that we are highlighting the problem of missing children everywhere. We will do what we can to help other families.”
AFP/Getty Kate McCann and her husband Gerry McCann
An eye-catching rainbow – a symbol of hope – lit up the sky as villagers gathered in front of the war memorial in Rothley, Leics.
Kate and Gerry’s “Tapas Seven” holiday pal Fiona Payne, read a poem “Tree of Hope.” The mum-of-two, accompanied by her family, choked back tears as she recited the final line: “And every bloom bear a colour for the ones that we miss.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 04, 2015, 08:51:14 AM
Here is some breakfast reading for the mccanns and their allies from another poster and of course, for the mccanns, from their beloved daily mail.
"Most of those commenting in newspapers that allow comments are, despite hoping that Madeleine is found, very critical of the mccanns" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Indeed - the 3 best-rated comments in the Mail are:
"It is time the British Police dropped this investigation, whatever happened it occurred overseas not in the UK, taxpayers money is being wasted by continuing an investigation that will never be concluded." (Yes votes 2,750, No votes 759)
"Perhaps Mrs McCann would like to pay the cost of the British Police investigation." (Yes votes 2,516, No votes 573)
"Oh for goodness sake. Can someone please bring this farce to an end soon!" (Yes votes 2,371, No votes 661)
Meanwhile, the impression given by certain sections of the press who paid huge amounts to the McCanns in the past is that while being openly critical of Amaral, they are covertly supportive - for example, the Star has given the name of the appeal fundraising page, and the Express even more helpfully shows a screenshot of it, and quotes what it says: "There are many who follow Amaral's dissatisfaction, and whom, like him, urge for the day the truth, or some more of it will emerge."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: OxfordBloo on May 04, 2015, 09:05:11 AM
Here is some breakfast reading for the mccanns and their allies from another poster and of course, for the mccanns, from their beloved daily mail.
"Most of those commenting in newspapers that allow comments are, despite hoping that Madeleine is found, very critical of the mccanns" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Indeed - the 3 best-rated comments in the Mail are:
"It is time the British Police dropped this investigation, whatever happened it occurred overseas not in the UK, taxpayers money is being wasted by continuing an investigation that will never be concluded." (Yes votes 2,750, No votes 759)
"Perhaps Mrs McCann would like to pay the cost of the British Police investigation." (Yes votes 2,516, No votes 573)
"Oh for goodness sake. Can someone please bring this farce to an end soon!" (Yes votes 2,371, No votes 661)
Meanwhile, the impression given by certain sections of the press who paid huge amounts to the McCanns in the past is that while being openly critical of Amaral, they are covertly supportive - for example, the Star has given the name of the appeal fundraising page, and the Express even more helpfully shows a screenshot of it, and quotes what it says: "There are many who follow Amaral's dissatisfaction, and whom, like him, urge for the day the truth, or some more of it will emerge."
No problem there. People are entitled to their opinion however unsupported or illiberal
People are free to supplement Amaral's pension.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 04, 2015, 09:18:47 AM
No problem there. People are entitled to their opinion however unsupported or illiberal
People are free to supplement Amaral's pension.
Unsupported or illiberal ?
What is far more likely, is that those few people who pay any attention to the case at all, are increasingly fed up with the mccanns parade through the papers at regular intervals, with nothing to show for it, bar the 'poor me act of the mccanns' and the investigations which have singularly ended up where they began.
Namely, back at square one.
I wonder how many people are still donating to the 'fund', which has no use whatsoever.
N.B. I am obviously excluding that small band of supporters they still have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2015, 09:56:12 AM
Here is some breakfast reading for the mccanns and their allies from another poster and of course, for the mccanns, from their beloved daily mail.
"Most of those commenting in newspapers that allow comments are, despite hoping that Madeleine is found, very critical of the mccanns" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Indeed - the 3 best-rated comments in the Mail are:
"It is time the British Police dropped this investigation, whatever happened it occurred overseas not in the UK, taxpayers money is being wasted by continuing an investigation that will never be concluded." (Yes votes 2,750, No votes 759)
"Perhaps Mrs McCann would like to pay the cost of the British Police investigation." (Yes votes 2,516, No votes 573)
"Oh for goodness sake. Can someone please bring this farce to an end soon!" (Yes votes 2,371, No votes 661)
Meanwhile, the impression given by certain sections of the press who paid huge amounts to the McCanns in the past is that while being openly critical of Amaral, they are covertly supportive - for example, the Star has given the name of the appeal fundraising page, and the Express even more helpfully shows a screenshot of it, and quotes what it says: "There are many who follow Amaral's dissatisfaction, and whom, like him, urge for the day the truth, or some more of it will emerge."
It is wondrous that there are people who are very anxious to have the inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance cut off while the police still have avenues which they are actively pursuing.
It is almost as if they really do not want anyone to find out what may have happened to Madeleine McCann ... who is a British citizen under the protection of British Courts.
I must be wrong in thinking that because surely only a perpetrator or someone with a vested interest associated with the crime would wish to see the investigation curtailed.
Who else would be campaigning to have an active case stopped before it had reached its natural conclusion?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2015, 10:01:14 AM
What is far more likely, is that those few people who pay any attention to the case at all, are increasingly fed up with the mccanns parade through the papers at regular intervals, with nothing to show for it, bar the 'poor me act of the mccanns' and the investigations which have singularly ended up where they began.
Namely, back at square one.
I wonder how many people are still donating to the 'fund', which has no use whatsoever.
N.B. I am obviously excluding that small band of supporters they still have.
Why would people be donating to Madeleine's Fund at the moment? For the time being the Fund has achieved one of its objectives ... Madeleine McCann is being looked for by the PJ and SY ... doesn't get much better than that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: OxfordBloo on May 04, 2015, 10:11:03 AM
It is wondrous that there are people who are very anxious to have the inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance cut off while the police still have avenues which they are actively pursuing.
It is almost as if they really do not want anyone to find out what may have happened to Madeleine McCann ... who is a British citizen under the protection of British Courts.
I must be wrong in thinking that because surely only a perpetrator or someone with a vested interest associated with the crime would wish to see the investigation curtailed.
Who else would be campaigning to have an active case stopped before it had reached its natural conclusion?
I happen to believe that the chances of success in the Met investigation and the Portuguese investigation are negligible. I am neither supportive nor critical of either, but I am willing to let the relevant authorities decide on expenditure and timescale.
The demands to close them down is based on the fear that they might just reveal information that further indicates that the McCanns are innocent and Amaral was wrong.
The problem here is the one at the root of the McCann [ censored word ]s- arrogance.
Arrogance means exactly the unjustified arrogation of responsibility- which is exactly what the McCann [ censored word ]s do- arrogate to themselves decisions and actions that are within the purview of far more competent people and bodies than them and their little fora.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 04, 2015, 10:25:47 AM
I happen to believe that the chances of success in the Met investigation and the Portuguese investigation are negligible. I am neither supportive nor critical of either, but I am willing to let the relevant authorities decide on expenditure and timescale.
I concur. Too much time has now passed for anything useful to be discovered by investigators. The only way this case will be solved is if someone comes forward and reveals what happened. The biggest mistake made in this case was to remove the sizeable reward offered for information. It has become very clear that some are more interested in convictions than they are in recovering a little lost girl.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 04, 2015, 10:53:13 AM
Why would people be donating to Madeleine's Fund at the moment? For the time being the Fund has achieved one of its objectives ... Madeleine McCann is being looked for by the PJ and SY ... doesn't get much better than that.
Of course there are.
and they have found ?..............................................................
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 04, 2015, 10:55:43 AM
It is wondrous that there are people who are very anxious to have the inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance cut off while the police still have avenues which they are actively pursuing.
It is almost as if they really do not want anyone to find out what may have happened to Madeleine McCann ... who is a British citizen under the protection of British Courts.
I must be wrong in thinking that because surely only a perpetrator or someone with a vested interest associated with the crime would wish to see the investigation curtailed.
Who else would be campaigning to have an active case stopped before it had reached its natural conclusion?
So exactly for how many years to come should the tax payer continue to pay for the incompetence of Kate and Gerry Mccann ?
and with no results to show for it ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2015, 11:36:03 AM
So exactly for how many years to come should the tax payer continue to pay for the incompetence of Kate and Gerry Mccann ?
and with no results to show for it ?
British children in the Algarve have been subject to sexual assault, Madeleine McCann is a missing child ... is it your assertion British authorities should ignore these outrages and not work with Portuguese authorities to solve them and attempt to bring the perpetrators to justice?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 04, 2015, 12:08:55 PM
British children in the Algarve have been subject to sexual assault, Madeleine McCann is a missing child ... is it your assertion British authorities should ignore these outrages and not work with Portuguese authorities to solve them and attempt to bring the perpetrators to justice?
That was already known
I am talking about the mccann case.
Please keep on topic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 04, 2015, 12:20:12 PM
Can I assume from you answer that it is not part of the Operation Grange remit?
If a remit is to investigate murder/disappearance, and the unit makes a possible connection between murder/disappearance and assaults on other children, it does not need to return for a new remit.
Don't be so defensive.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 04, 2015, 03:33:05 PM
I am impressed that you have managed to access the Operation Grange files and are able to assess their results in order to form your opinion.
How did you manage it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 06, 2015, 11:30:44 AM
A small survey of journalists has revealed that they too as individuals have been the target of cyber attack so serious that some have admitted that fear is forcing them to think very seriously about covering contentious issues in future.
Quite a conundrum for the believers in their own entitlement to freedom of speech when it interferes with the freedom of the press and is certainly an issue which will not go away of its own accord. Legislation will undoubtedly be brought in at some stage to deal with the situation.
As one who believes with freedom comes responsibility ... I think it is way past time those abusing the internet take a long hard look at the probable consequences of their actions in the longer term ... and sort themselves out, before someone somewhere takes their choices out of their own hands and into theirs.
Journalists 'fear for their personal safety' after cyberbullying STV 5 May 2015 11:17 BST
Cyberbullying has left some journalists fearing for their personal safety, according to a survey.
A number of reporters said they have received death threats and others said they now take "additional security precautions" when out and at home.
Twitter was identified as the main source of cyberbullying, with 65% of those who took part in the survey reporting it as the source of abuse, 28% were threatened with violence or serious harm to themselves and 5% were subjected to threats of violence or serious harm to their families.
The study identified much of the abuse as political but there were also cases of sectarian, sexist, racist and homophobic abuse.
The survey revealed some journalists have experienced a form of cyberbullying more than 50 times in the past year, but more than 80% said they had not reported the abuse to police.
The findings are from a joint study by the National Union of Journalists (NUJ) and the University of Strathclyde.
Researchers said it was a "freedom-of-expression issue" and some journalists indicated they may avoid contentious stories in future.
Dr Sallyanne Duncan, a senior lecturer in journalism at Strathclyde University, said: "Social media is a professional tool for journalists which keeps them connected whether they are at work or at home, and consequently it can be really difficult for them to escape their abusers.
"They can't switch off their devices without potentially missing a story, so the result is that they are constantly a target.
"Our research is concerned with the effect on their mental and physical well-being, and how this affects them both personally and professionally. This is also a freedom-of-expression issue.
"Our research has indicated that some journalists might choose to self-censor, avoid contentious stories or stop using social media in order to avoid their abusers. This could have serious consequences for a free society.
"We plan to carry out more detailed research into the scale of the problem, its impact on journalists and the way they do their jobs, and how to address the problems raised."
NUJ Scottish organiser Paul Holleran said criticism of journalists is expected but that a line has to be drawn at "unacceptable levels of abuse and threats".
He said: "In September 2014 the NUJ called for the end to threats and intimidation of journalists reporting on the referendum.
"We had also earlier in the year supported a number of members who had been threatened by football supporters, unhappy at the way stories related to their club were being covered.
"In recent weeks there has been a spate of attacks on journalists and the union responded, targeting the bullies and demanding a stop to the abuse.
"This stage of our campaign is about stepping up the pressure on the bullies but also calling for employers to step up to the plate and stand up for journalists working for their titles or stations.
"As we have always stated, it is to be expected when journalists are criticised but we draw a line at unacceptable levels of abuse and threats.
"We will highlight any ongoing attacks and in serious cases we will involve Police Scotland who have always been supportive of our work in this field."
The sample size was 35, which included freelance, broadcast and print journalists.
TODAY is the 12th birthday of missing Rothley girl Madeleine McCann - and supporters are urging people to honour her by donating cash to her mother’s charity efforts.
On the ‘Official Find Madeleine Campaign’ Facebook site, it says: “Today is Madeleine’s 12th Birthday. In honour of Madeleine’s birthday, please consider sponsoring Kate in her upcoming 500 mile cycle challenge for Missing People: http://www.justgiving.com/KateMcCann/
“Please also light a candle for Madeleine at: http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Maddy .
“Thank you for continuing to hold Madeleine in your heart.”
Madeleine’s mum Kate McCann will lead a 500-mile (805km) bike ride from Edinburgh to London in June to raise £10,000 for a missing persons charity.
Madeleine was three when she went missing from her family’s holiday apartment in Portugal’s Algarve on May 3 2007 as her parents, Kate and Gerry, dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends.
Mrs McCann, who is fund-raising for Missing People, of which she is an ambassador, said: “As the eighth anniversary of our daughter Madeleine’s abduction is upon us, I’m more driven than ever to continue the search for Madeleine and to help other families who face the pain of a child being missing. All of us can play a part in helping this important charity.”
Mrs McCann will lead 20 cyclists on a Cycle Challenge starting at Arthur’s Seat, Edinburgh’s landmark hill, on June 13. They will then take in Newcastle, York, Nottingham and Northampton before finishing at the Tower of London on June 17.
Madeleine’s disappearance is one of the most famous missing persons cases of all time.
Her parents recently won a libel payout against Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, who had been on trial over claims he made in a book and a documentary that the couple were involved in Madeleine’s disappearance in Praia da Luz.
In a written verdict, a Lisbon court agreed that Mr Amaral should pay Mr and Mrs McCann 250,000 euros (£179,000) each in damages and it banned further sales of his book, The Truth Of The Lie.
British police officers spent eight days searching three areas of land in Praia da Luz last June, close to where Madeleine disappeared, but found no new evidence.
The Metropolitan Police launched their own operation in 2011.
Missing People is launching a fund-raising effort alongside Mrs McCann’s ride. £MissforMay encourages people to give up a luxury for May and donate the money they save.
Its chief executive, Jo Youle, said: “We are hugely grateful to Kate McCann for taking on this incredible challenge to help missing people and their families across the UK.”
TODAY is the 12th birthday of missing Rothley girl Madeleine McCann - and supporters are urging people to honour her by donating cash to her mother’s charity efforts.
On the ‘Official Find Madeleine Campaign’ Facebook site, it says: “Today is Madeleine’s 12th Birthday. In honour of Madeleine’s birthday, please consider sponsoring Kate in her upcoming 500 mile cycle challenge for Missing People: http://www.justgiving.com/KateMcCann/
“Please also light a candle for Madeleine at: http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Maddy .
“Thank you for continuing to hold Madeleine in your heart.”
Madeleine’s mum Kate McCann will lead a 500-mile (805km) bike ride from Edinburgh to London in June to raise £10,000 for a missing persons charity.
Madeleine was three when she went missing from her family’s holiday apartment in Portugal’s Algarve on May 3 2007 as her parents, Kate and Gerry, dined at a nearby tapas restaurant with friends.
Mrs McCann, who is fund-raising for Missing People, of which she is an ambassador, said: “As the eighth anniversary of our daughter Madeleine’s abduction is upon us, I’m more driven than ever to continue the search for Madeleine and to help other families who face the pain of a child being missing. All of us can play a part in helping this important charity.”
Mrs McCann will lead 20 cyclists on a Cycle Challenge starting at Arthur’s Seat, Edinburgh’s landmark hill, on June 13. They will then take in Newcastle, York, Nottingham and Northampton before finishing at the Tower of London on June 17.
Madeleine’s disappearance is one of the most famous missing persons cases of all time.
Her parents recently won a libel payout against Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, who had been on trial over claims he made in a book and a documentary that the couple were involved in Madeleine’s disappearance in Praia da Luz.
In a written verdict, a Lisbon court agreed that Mr Amaral should pay Mr and Mrs McCann 250,000 euros (£179,000) each in damages and it banned further sales of his book, The Truth Of The Lie.
British police officers spent eight days searching three areas of land in Praia da Luz last June, close to where Madeleine disappeared, but found no new evidence.
The Metropolitan Police launched their own operation in 2011.
Missing People is launching a fund-raising effort alongside Mrs McCann’s ride. £MissforMay encourages people to give up a luxury for May and donate the money they save.
Its chief executive, Jo Youle, said: “We are hugely grateful to Kate McCann for taking on this incredible challenge to help missing people and their families across the UK.”
All very touching but wouldn't a bike ride through the Algarve be more useful albeit 8 years too late?
The sentiment on the ground here is extremely hostile to the McCanns, whether rightly or wrongly. The window of opportunity for a charity bike ride through the Algarve closed shut before the McCanns left Luz for the UK.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfred R Jones on May 13, 2015, 09:25:37 AM
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/441800/Madeleine-McCann-Kate-McCann-12th-Birthday Kate McCann hit by internet trolls on missing Maddie's 12th birthday
INTERNET trolls sent cruel messages to Kate McCann on missing daughter Madeleine’s 12th birthday yesterday.
By Jerry Lawton / Published 13th May 2015
Madeleine McCann TROLLED: Kate McCann was bombarded with hate messages on the day of missing Maddie's 12th birthday [PA]
Kate, was abused as she appealed for sponsors for a cycle challenge to raise cash for missing children.
Trolls even made donations to her Just- Giving page so they could access it to leave hate messages too shocking to print.
“Keep strong Kate and don’t let the trolls get you down”
Twitter supporter
But supporters urged Kate to ignore the abuse.
One wrote: “Keep strong Kate and don’t let the trolls get you down.”
Kate and husband Gerry, 46, yesterday laid presents in their abducted daughter’s bedroom to mark her birthday at their home in Rothley, Leics. Kate, 47, is hoping to raise £10,000 by taking part in a 500-mile cycle challenge from Edinburgh to London next month.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on May 13, 2015, 07:42:57 PM
Jerry Lawton, never one to miss an opportunity.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 14, 2015, 10:05:12 PM
Sir Bernard said of the investigation: “It’s moving on apace at the moment in terms of the relationship with the Portuguese and that is to be welcomed. As long as there’s a basis for doing the investigation we will continue.” http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg240287#msg240287
An unequivocal statement which indicates that there remains a basis for continuing to look for Madeleine McCann ... very good news indeed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on May 14, 2015, 11:02:06 PM
Sir Bernard said of the investigation: “It’s moving on apace at the moment in terms of the relationship with the Portuguese and that is to be welcomed. As long as there’s a basis for doing the investigation we will continue.” http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg240287#msg240287
An unequivocal statement which indicates that there remains a basis for continuing to look for Madeleine McCann ... very good news indeed.
It says a basis for investigation, not continuing to look for MM.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on May 19, 2015, 05:23:26 PM
I have been told that tonight they are running an equivalent of Crimewatch within Greece, the focus of which is the Ben Needham investigation.
Has anyone got a link to the Portuguese broadcast of the BBC Crimewatch Appeal about the PDL case? BTW it's a trick question, don't bother looking, there was none.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 19, 2015, 06:40:29 PM
Has anyone got a link to the Portuguese broadcast of the BBC Crimewatch Appeal about the PDL case? BTW it's a trick question, don't bother looking, there was none.
This is actually a very pertinent point.
Between the Amaral book and the subsequent documentary, there has been no impetus in Portugal to find Smithman.
A Crimewatch in Portugal might well lead to a lot of very useful information.
It is unlikely to happen while there is the current combination of judicial secrecy laws and an active investigation underway within Portugal.
I'm not sure if the Smithman efits have received any significant exposure here.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on May 22, 2015, 11:31:49 PM
Between the Amaral book and the subsequent documentary, there has been no impetus in Portugal to find Smithman.
A Crimewatch in Portugal might well lead to a lot of very useful information.
It is unlikely to happen while there is the current combination of judicial secrecy laws and an active investigation underway within Portugal.
I'm not sure if the Smithman efits have received any significant exposure here.
Are SIC and TVI big broadcasters over there Shining? Both those companies asked for permission to broadcast the Crimewatch Appeal in Portugal. The BBC refused. How stupid is that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 23, 2015, 08:56:39 AM
SIC, TVI and RTP.
If they offered to do a CW here, I am surprised the offer was not taken up.
Interesting, cos most of the stuff they broadcast is both bland and highly predictable.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 23, 2015, 09:56:52 AM
If they offered to do a CW here, I am surprised the offer was not taken up.
Interesting, cos most of the stuff they broadcast is both bland and highly predictable.
Quite an interesting article here ...
Crimewatch aired in UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany, but why not Portugal? BY BRENDAN DE BEER, IN NEWS · 17-10-2013 http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/crimewatch-aired-in-uk-ireland-netherlands-germany-but-why-not-portugal/29659
Reading between the lines ... this programme was broadcast in the early days and we have seen newspapers printing leaks at the time reporting dichotomy between British and Portuguese police.
My impression is that situation, if it ever existed, is resolved ~ but I think the impetus to find the man featured in the efits has also been resolved. Either they have eliminated him, in which case I think we would have been told ~ or they know who he is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 23, 2015, 05:40:46 PM
Crimewatch aired in UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany, but why not Portugal? BY BRENDAN DE BEER, IN NEWS · 17-10-2013 http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/crimewatch-aired-in-uk-ireland-netherlands-germany-but-why-not-portugal/29659
Reading between the lines ... this programme was broadcast in the early days and we have seen newspapers printing leaks at the time reporting dichotomy between British and Portuguese police.
My impression is that situation, if it ever existed, is resolved ~ but I think the impetus to find the man featured in the efits has also been resolved. Either they have eliminated him, in which case I think we would have been told ~ or they know who he is.
Thank you for the link. It was both informative and enjoyable.
I would differ on interpretation. I believe the German equivalent was in German, the Dutch version was in Dutch and the Irish version was in ...
There would have to have been a Portuguese version in Portuguese. And I'm thinking that SY fell foul of the judicial secrecy laws here, which frankly is a bit of an obstacle.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on May 29, 2015, 03:21:11 AM
The Deputy Director of News at SIC Television was meanwhile reported to have exchanged e-mails with the BBC in the days running up to the Crimewatch programme in order to secure the rights to the full programme, but to no avail.“The BBC said they are not selling the rights”, Martim Cabral told The Portugal News, “therefore we cannot show it". http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/crimewatch-aired-in-uk-ireland-netherlands-germany-but-why-not-portugal/29659
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on May 29, 2015, 03:26:47 AM
Another Portuguese news channel TVI, told The Portugal News that it had contacted the British national broadcaster prior to the airing of the show, as it sought to “acquire the programme for Portugal, which was DENIED. http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/crimewatch-aired-in-uk-ireland-netherlands-germany-but-why-not-portugal/29659
So that's two major portuguese broadcasters who wanted to buy the programme, but the BBC refused.
@ShiningInLuz didn't BBC sell to SIC Downton Abbey broadcast rights?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 30, 2015, 03:48:29 AM
Another Portuguese news channel TVI, told The Portugal News that it had contacted the British national broadcaster prior to the airing of the show, as it sought to “acquire the programme for Portugal, which was DENIED. http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/crimewatch-aired-in-uk-ireland-netherlands-germany-but-why-not-portugal/29659
So that's two major portuguese broadcasters who wanted to buy the programme, but the BBC refused.
@ShiningInLuz didn't BBC sell to SIC Downton Abbey broadcast rights?
They might well have done. I'm sorry, I simply don't know because I don't watch Downton Abbey. Neither in English nor dubbed into Portuguese, possibly with sub-titles.
Crimewatch is different. It comes up against the laws in Portugal about whether a non-police officer can investigate a crime (illegal) and whether one can broadcast about a current investigation (contrary to judicial secrecy).
Both happen. Or perhaps more appropriately, both happened.
We still need a Crimewatch Portugal special. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on May 31, 2015, 02:06:29 PM
Its good to see that Mr Amaral's active supporters include some UK police and journalists appalled by his treatment.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on June 01, 2015, 11:59:29 PM
"In 2009, in January of 2009, I lived in the Algarve and was indicated to run for mayor of Olhão on behalf of the Social Democratic Party [PSD]. And that alerted that family, that situation of destabilising me, and Mr Gerald McCann came to Lisbon, there’s news from that time, he met with a top political official from PSD who has a French surname, with Dr Rogério Alves and with Dr Isabel Duarte – this is what is said, it’s what was published – and what happened then was that PSD gave me up as a candidate. This puts rights at stake, the rights of a citizen, the rights of a Portuguese citizen, and someone comes from the outside to do it. It’s the right to be elected. And this is when they start thinking about the lawsuit. It’s not about what is in the book, what is in the documentary, because what the book and the documentary contain is what is in the process. They contain technical opinions. And it’s the fear of that issue – when they come over here and put the right to be elected at stake, with the acquiescence of people inside PSD, that this happened." (translation by astro). http://www.rtp.pt/play/p1629/e180119/agora-nos/405316 The video is in portuguese with no subtitles, the interview starts in part 4 at 22:40.
Its easy to confirm that Mr Amaral was chosen in Jan 2008 by PSD. But does anyone have any extra information to confirm the alleged meeting by others with a PSD official in Jan 2009 please?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on June 02, 2015, 12:36:12 AM
Summary- Gonçalo Amaral was the PSD party candidate. Olhão was a stronghold of the PS party continuous since 1974 (PS and PSD are two different parties). Polls on Jan 22nd/23rd 2009 predicted PSD candidate Gonçalo Amaral would win. Then suddenly on Feb 2nd 2009 the PSD party announce that they are dropping Gonçalo Amaral.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on June 02, 2015, 11:55:15 AM
Why doesn't a PT paper just ask the polit party did this alleged meeting happen or didn't it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 19, 2015, 04:43:01 PM
British media getting it wrong again? Or Cyprus covering up a danger to their tourist industry?
Government rejects child abduction claims
By Constantinos Psillides
The uproar in the British media over the alleged attempted kidnapping of three children in Protaras was unnecessary and unsubstantiated, the government said on Friday.
In a written statement, deputy government spokesman Victoras Papadopoulos said that police had acted promptly upon receiving information about the case and investigated thoroughly, finding absolutely no evidence pointing towards the existence of a child snatching ring.
“The government wishes to emphatically stress that Cyprus was and remains one of the safest tourist destinations worldwide, both for locals and foreign visitors and their children,” Papadopoulos said.
The story of the alleged attempted kidnapping of three British youngsters in the Anastasia Beach hotel on Tuesday is featured prominently in UK media for the third day.
According to the new reports that surfaced, a similar incident took place at the Anastasia Beach hotel last year. A report in the Daily Mail says that Daniel Mann, 28, was vacationing in the hotel along with his partner and two-year old daughter Lillie when the child went missing. Lillie was reportedly with her father at the pool when she vanished. The child was found 40 minutes later, according to the report, in the hands of an “eastern European” woman who was taking the kid to a nearby parking lot. Mann told the Daily Mail that he demanded of the hotel manager to call police but that he refused telling them that “you’ve got her back, that’s it”.
Hotel manager Giannos Michaelides tells a different story. “I never told them not to call police or that they have their child and that’s it. I do not know to which hotel manager they refer to but I was the one here that day,” Michaelides told the Cyprus Mail, adding that his version of the story is quite different.
“The father came to the reception desk saying that his daughter disappeared. I gave instructions to the staff to start looking for her and we found her half an hour later, walking alone in a street behind the hotel. If my memory serves, the family was either leaving that very day or the morning after,” he said.
These reports sprouted following claims of around 60 UK tourists who took part in a wedding party on Tuesday at the pool area of the Anastasia Beach hotel. The holidaymakers told UK press that a gang of three persons –two men and one woman, all Romanians- were filming their kids and trying to lure them away to a pick-up truck and that their attempt was foiled at the last minute by a passerby.
The reports said that the man and the woman were dragged by the holidaymakers to the reception where police were notified. The third gang member left in a getaway car which crashed a short while after leaving the hotel.
It was also reported that the gang was 18 person strong and that the Romanians where stalking children throughout the week posing as hotel waiters.
Cyprus police have repeatedly dismissed these reports, saying that they only arrested a 19-year old Bulgarian, not two people, that there no was no car crash and that they didn’t find any evidence pointing towards a child-snatching gang.
The 19-year old was questioned, his phone and home searched –with his consent- and police found nothing to indicate that he was part of a child snatching gang. Pictures and video on his phone didn’t feature any children and he was released shortly after his arrest.
Hotel manager Giannos Michaelides also dismissed reports of undercover child snatchers, telling the Cyprus Mail that while an incident did take place on Tuesday it involved only one man and that he was immediately escorted off hotel grounds and handed over to the police.
More recent reports in the UK press say that eight arrests were made regarding the case and that police have another Romanian under custody for a different child abduction case.
“Im at a loss for words. This is getting ridiculous,” deputy police spokesperson Nikoletta Tyrimou told the Cyprus Mail, reiterating that there was only one arrest and that there is no Romanian man under custody for child abduction.
Tour operator Thomas Cook issued a statement on Thursday saying that all they move all holiday makers who requested so to a different hotel.
According to a statement by tour operator Thomas Cook, they are working closely with local police to resolve the matter. http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/06/19/government-rejects-child-abduction-claims/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on June 19, 2015, 05:00:40 PM
British media getting it wrong again? Or Cyprus covering up a danger to their tourist industry?
Government rejects child abduction claims
By Constantinos Psillides
The uproar in the British media over the alleged attempted kidnapping of three children in Protaras was unnecessary and unsubstantiated, the government said on Friday.
In a written statement, deputy government spokesman Victoras Papadopoulos said that police had acted promptly upon receiving information about the case and investigated thoroughly, finding absolutely no evidence pointing towards the existence of a child snatching ring.
“The government wishes to emphatically stress that Cyprus was and remains one of the safest tourist destinations worldwide, both for locals and foreign visitors and their children,” Papadopoulos said.
The story of the alleged attempted kidnapping of three British youngsters in the Anastasia Beach hotel on Tuesday is featured prominently in UK media for the third day.
According to the new reports that surfaced, a similar incident took place at the Anastasia Beach hotel last year. A report in the Daily Mail says that Daniel Mann, 28, was vacationing in the hotel along with his partner and two-year old daughter Lillie when the child went missing. Lillie was reportedly with her father at the pool when she vanished. The child was found 40 minutes later, according to the report, in the hands of an “eastern European” woman who was taking the kid to a nearby parking lot. Mann told the Daily Mail that he demanded of the hotel manager to call police but that he refused telling them that “you’ve got her back, that’s it”.
Hotel manager Giannos Michaelides tells a different story. “I never told them not to call police or that they have their child and that’s it. I do not know to which hotel manager they refer to but I was the one here that day,” Michaelides told the Cyprus Mail, adding that his version of the story is quite different.
“The father came to the reception desk saying that his daughter disappeared. I gave instructions to the staff to start looking for her and we found her half an hour later, walking alone in a street behind the hotel. If my memory serves, the family was either leaving that very day or the morning after,” he said.
These reports sprouted following claims of around 60 UK tourists who took part in a wedding party on Tuesday at the pool area of the Anastasia Beach hotel. The holidaymakers told UK press that a gang of three persons –two men and one woman, all Romanians- were filming their kids and trying to lure them away to a pick-up truck and that their attempt was foiled at the last minute by a passerby.
The reports said that the man and the woman were dragged by the holidaymakers to the reception where police were notified. The third gang member left in a getaway car which crashed a short while after leaving the hotel.
It was also reported that the gang was 18 person strong and that the Romanians where stalking children throughout the week posing as hotel waiters.
Cyprus police have repeatedly dismissed these reports, saying that they only arrested a 19-year old Bulgarian, not two people, that there no was no car crash and that they didn’t find any evidence pointing towards a child-snatching gang.
The 19-year old was questioned, his phone and home searched –with his consent- and police found nothing to indicate that he was part of a child snatching gang. Pictures and video on his phone didn’t feature any children and he was released shortly after his arrest.
Hotel manager Giannos Michaelides also dismissed reports of undercover child snatchers, telling the Cyprus Mail that while an incident did take place on Tuesday it involved only one man and that he was immediately escorted off hotel grounds and handed over to the police.
More recent reports in the UK press say that eight arrests were made regarding the case and that police have another Romanian under custody for a different child abduction case.
“Im at a loss for words. This is getting ridiculous,” deputy police spokesperson Nikoletta Tyrimou told the Cyprus Mail, reiterating that there was only one arrest and that there is no Romanian man under custody for child abduction.
Tour operator Thomas Cook issued a statement on Thursday saying that all they move all holiday makers who requested so to a different hotel.
According to a statement by tour operator Thomas Cook, they are working closely with local police to resolve the matter. http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/06/19/government-rejects-child-abduction-claims/
In what way do you think the British media have it "wrong again".
Why did Thomas Cook move families to other hotels? Did families leave their holiday to fly home early?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on August 09, 2015, 07:48:48 PM
According to the Daily Mail police are probing 8 theories about what happened to Ben Needham http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3191115/Greek-police-hunting-missing-Ben-Needham-probing-eight-theories-happened-British-toddler.html
As at least 7 of these must be wrong, so it sounds as if they haven't much idea about what happened.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on August 11, 2015, 02:10:17 AM
8 theories sounds a bit silly to me, 8 theories???? wtf two decades gone, never will be found unless someone talks
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on August 13, 2015, 01:11:40 AM
Abducted girl's mum slams Frankie Boyle's jokes about Madeleine McCann
A mother whose nine-year-old daughter was abducted and murdered has hit out at controversial comedian Frankie Boyle for making jokes about missing Madeleine McCann.
Patricia Cardy (67) told the Belfast Telegraph last night she was offended Boyle used the disappearance of children to crack a 'joke'.
Boyle made the jibe during a Feile an Phobail performance in west Belfast which already had been overshadowed by his previous material aimed at Down's Syndrome children.
Patricia Cardy's daughter Jennifer was just nine when she was abducted from her home at Ballinderry near Lisburn in 1981. Her body was later found in a dam at Hillsborough, Co Down.
Reacting to Boyle's 'joke' about Madeleine McCann, Mrs Cardy, now a great-grandmother, said the subject was neither funny nor suitable for humour.
"It has offended me in the sense he has used this to promote laughter and that would be all I would say.
"I don't think anything can promote laughter that is not laughable, and that would be all I would say. You cannot promote laughter by something that is not laughable - and that's where I stand."
In 2011, convicted child sex killer Robert Black was found guilty of murdering Jennifer Cardy who was abducted from a road near her home in Ballinderry on 12 August 1981.
After a huge search operation, her body was found at McKee's Dam near Hillsborough, six days after she disappeared.
Meanwhile, a spokesperson for the family of Jean McConville also slammed Boyle's "sick" comments over Madeleine who went missing eight years ago.
Mrs McConville, a 38-year-old mother-of-ten, was abducted from her home in front of her children and shot dead by the IRA in 1972.
Her son-in-law Seamus McKendry, who is married to Helen, described how they have also endured abuse following her disappearance. I don't think Frankie Boyle knows where to draw the line," he said.
"He is getting handsomely paid and he is just being given more oxygen to say these types of crude comments.
"He should be more careful with his topic especially in west Belfast where so many people have been disappeared.
"The minute we started the campaign we got abuse, calling her things like the world's best hide and seek champion. But those types of comments are water off a duck's back now. People say these things and you can't stop them."
Jim Gamble, a child protection expert and former RUC detective, told the Belfast Telegraph: "I don't know why people pay money to go and see him when he is only a school-yard bully.
"Everyone else laughs while he picks on the weakest and most vulnerable people in our society until it is them he is picking on.
"People are entitled to go and watch whoever they want and I understand that. But to come out with those vile comments that picks on children with Down's Syndrome, my opinion is that they need to take a long hard look at themselves.
"Anyone laughing at that simply encourages the school-yard bully and by giving this man an audience only makes it worse. I wonder what it says about all of us.
"On the back of everything if he has not had the decency to come out and say he regretted the hurt he has caused and apologise for what he said then it makes things worse.
"But he has only added insult to injury by trying to justify his disgusting comments about things that are close to people's hearts - I don't think that's fine.
"He refuses to go on public shows like Stephen Nolan or Talkback or any other show to try and explain why he thinks its OK to say what he says.
"What he wants is the publicity that this shock tactic levels at. I say there should be a debate and he should apologise.
"To make fun of people who are missing is horrifying and to make fun of families who are hurting in these circumstances is so cruel and sick."
But what's this...the same sentence as in her 2008 article on Mitchell: "Before that, he had been acting as an adviser to the McCanns last summer at the request of the Foreign Office, while retaining his government role."
But what's this...the same sentence as in her 2008 article on Mitchell: "Before that, he had been acting as an adviser to the McCanns last summer at the request of the Foreign Office, while retaining his government role."
A mother whose nine-year-old daughter was abducted and murdered has hit out at controversial comedian Frankie Boyle for making jokes about missing Madeleine McCann.
Patricia Cardy (67) told the Belfast Telegraph last night she was offended Boyle used the disappearance of children to crack a 'joke'.
Boyle made the jibe during a Feile an Phobail performance in west Belfast which already had been overshadowed by his previous material aimed at Down's Syndrome children.
Patricia Cardy's daughter Jennifer was just nine when she was abducted from her home at Ballinderry near Lisburn in 1981. Her body was later found in a dam at Hillsborough, Co Down.
Reacting to Boyle's 'joke' about Madeleine McCann, Mrs Cardy, now a great-grandmother, said the subject was neither funny nor suitable for humour.
"It has offended me in the sense he has used this to promote laughter and that would be all I would say.
"I don't think anything can promote laughter that is not laughable, and that would be all I would say. You cannot promote laughter by something that is not laughable - and that's where I stand."
In 2011, convicted child sex killer Robert Black was found guilty of murdering Jennifer Cardy who was abducted from a road near her home in Ballinderry on 12 August 1981.
After a huge search operation, her body was found at McKee's Dam near Hillsborough, six days after she disappeared.
Meanwhile, a spokesperson for the family of Jean McConville also slammed Boyle's "sick" comments over Madeleine who went missing eight years ago.
Mrs McConville, a 38-year-old mother-of-ten, was abducted from her home in front of her children and shot dead by the IRA in 1972.
Her son-in-law Seamus McKendry, who is married to Helen, described how they have also endured abuse following her disappearance. I don't think Frankie Boyle knows where to draw the line," he said.
"He is getting handsomely paid and he is just being given more oxygen to say these types of crude comments.
"He should be more careful with his topic especially in west Belfast where so many people have been disappeared.
"The minute we started the campaign we got abuse, calling her things like the world's best hide and seek champion. But those types of comments are water off a duck's back now. People say these things and you can't stop them."
Jim Gamble, a child protection expert and former RUC detective, told the Belfast Telegraph: "I don't know why people pay money to go and see him when he is only a school-yard bully.
"Everyone else laughs while he picks on the weakest and most vulnerable people in our society until it is them he is picking on.
"People are entitled to go and watch whoever they want and I understand that. But to come out with those vile comments that picks on children with Down's Syndrome, my opinion is that they need to take a long hard look at themselves.
"Anyone laughing at that simply encourages the school-yard bully and by giving this man an audience only makes it worse. I wonder what it says about all of us.
"On the back of everything if he has not had the decency to come out and say he regretted the hurt he has caused and apologise for what he said then it makes things worse.
"But he has only added insult to injury by trying to justify his disgusting comments about things that are close to people's hearts - I don't think that's fine.
"He refuses to go on public shows like Stephen Nolan or Talkback or any other show to try and explain why he thinks its OK to say what he says.
"What he wants is the publicity that this shock tactic levels at. I say there should be a debate and he should apologise.
"To make fun of people who are missing is horrifying and to make fun of families who are hurting in these circumstances is so cruel and sick."
Madeleine McCann, 3, was abducted in Portugal in May 2007.
A Queensland magistrate has highlighted the Madeleine McCann mystery to admonish a mother for "grossly negligent behaviour" after she left her toddler at home alone overnight and went on a drunken spree slashing the tyres and smashing windows of two parked vehicles.
The 25-year-old Gladstone woman was angry after a break-up with her partner and used bricks to attack his parked vehicle and apparently that of a friend.
The mother, who cannot be named to protect her child, pleaded guilty in Gladstone Magistrates Court to leaving a child without supervision overnight on July 7 between 10pm and 4am, and two counts of wilful damage to a Toyota four-wheel-drive and a car.
Magistrate Penelope Hay said the mother placed her child at serious risk in a a "fit of jealous rage".
"Children can be abducted. The parents of Madeleine McCann left her asleep in a locked apartment. She has never been found," she said.
Madeleine McCann was three years old when she disappeared from a holiday apartment in Portugal on May 3, 2007.
Read more at The Gladstone Observer (http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/news/all-alone-as-mum-rages/2747944/)
Madeleine McCann, 3, was abducted in Portugal in May 2007.
A Queensland magistrate has highlighted the Madeleine McCann mystery to admonish a mother for "grossly negligent behaviour" after she left her toddler at home alone overnight and went on a drunken spree slashing the tyres and smashing windows of two parked vehicles.
The 25-year-old Gladstone woman was angry after a break-up with her partner and used bricks to attack his parked vehicle and apparently that of a friend.
The mother, who cannot be named to protect her child, pleaded guilty in Gladstone Magistrates Court to leaving a child without supervision overnight on July 7 between 10pm and 4am, and two counts of wilful damage to a Toyota four-wheel-drive and a car.
Magistrate Penelope Hay said the mother placed her child at serious risk in a a "fit of jealous rage".
"Children can be abducted. The parents of Madeleine McCann left her asleep in a locked apartment. She has never been found," she said.
Madeleine McCann was three years old when she disappeared from a holiday apartment in Portugal on May 3, 2007.
Read more at The Gladstone Observer (http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/news/all-alone-as-mum-rages/2747944/)
We all know that it was unlocked at the patio doors, but very close to the tapas restaurannt where Kate and Gerry and their friends ater.
Also illuminated by the street lamp opposite.
No intruder would go in via that way with the parents so close according to Amaral.
We also now know what the Mccanns did not know then. That a lowered shutter and a closed window does not mean that they are locked.
Most of us Brits would think such a shutter lowered with the controls only on the inside would be unopenable (locked in effect) from the outside, but we would all be wrong as sadly the Mccanns were.
However the abductor almost certainly came in and went out via the very dark, recessed and off the beaten track front door. I wonder how long the light had been broken by the front door? Was that done a little earlier, especially to make it easier for the perp?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on September 01, 2015, 11:48:35 AM
We all know that it was unlocked at the patio doors, but very close to the tapas restaurannt where Kate and Gerry and their friends ater.
Also illuminated by the street lamp opposite.
No intruder would go in via that way with the parents so close according to Amaral.
We also now know what the Mccanns did not know then. That a lowered shutter and a closed window does not mean that they are locked.
Most of us Brits would think such a shutter lowered with the controls only on the inside would be unopenable (locked in effect) from the outside, but we would all be wrong as sadly the Mccanns were.
However the abductor almost certainly came in and went out via the very dark, recessed and off the beaten track front door. I wonder how long the light had been broken by the front door? Was that done a little earlier, especially to make it easier for the perp?
You should see me checking the shutters these days, on the holiday house I manage. None of them have internal locks. Just wind up mechanism on the inside. But I never leave the standard gaps anymore, in case someone could get their fingers in to pull them up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on September 01, 2015, 11:19:44 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-metropolitan-police-should-636514022:52, 1 September 2015 Updated 22:54, 1 September 2015 By Alex Wellman
The investigation has so far cost almost £11 million compared to an average of just £2,415 spent on hunts for other missing youngstBritish police hunting for missing Madeleine McCann have been advised to consider winding down the investigation by a former top cop.
Ex-Flying Squad chief John O'Connor questioned whether or not the spiralling cost of looking for clues as to the whereabouts of the child was the best use of public cash.
Mr O'Connor called for a senior officer to review Operation Grange - the Metropolitan Police's operation set up to find Maddie - and draw a line under it, if it was deemed to not be the best use of resources.
Speaking to The Sun, he said: "If there are no firm leads, and by that I mean no substantial operational things like active surveillance on suspects, then I’d have thought they should be considering winding it down now."
The police operation to find Maddie was launched in May 2011 by Prime Minister David Cameron after the child went missing in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz in four years earlier.
According to The Sun, Operation Grange has so far cost the British taxpayer almost £11 million, but this could balloon to £12 million by April next year.
The Missing Kids UK website has 155 children, including Maddie, registered but research shows an average of just £2,415 is spent investigating disappeared youngsters.
Mr O'Connor told The Sun: "You can’t keep chasing shadows. Chasing sightings all over the world. It depends on whether the detectives are making any real progress."
There are 30 officers and support staff currently working on Operation Grange and in March this year, Met Police Federation chairman John Tully voiced his concern about whether or not the investigation was a good use of cash.
He said: "It is surprising to see an inquiry like the McCann investigation ring-fenced. I’ve heard a few rumblings of discontent about it from lots of sources."
A source close to the McCanns said the family was eternally grateful to British police for launching the operation to find their daughter.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on September 01, 2015, 11:53:43 PM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-metropolitan-police-should-636514022:52, 1 September 2015 Updated 22:54, 1 September 2015 By Alex Wellman
The investigation has so far cost almost £11 million compared to an average of just £2,415 spent on hunts for other missing youngstBritish police hunting for missing Madeleine McCann have been advised to consider winding down the investigation by a former top cop.
Ex-Flying Squad chief John O'Connor questioned whether or not the spiralling cost of looking for clues as to the whereabouts of the child was the best use of public cash.
Mr O'Connor called for a senior officer to review Operation Grange - the Metropolitan Police's operation set up to find Maddie - and draw a line under it, if it was deemed to not be the best use of resources.
Speaking to The Sun, he said: "If there are no firm leads, and by that I mean no substantial operational things like active surveillance on suspects, then I’d have thought they should be considering winding it down now."
The police operation to find Maddie was launched in May 2011 by Prime Minister David Cameron after the child went missing in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz in four years earlier.
According to The Sun, Operation Grange has so far cost the British taxpayer almost £11 million, but this could balloon to £12 million by April next year.
The Missing Kids UK website has 155 children, including Maddie, registered but research shows an average of just £2,415 is spent investigating disappeared youngsters.
Mr O'Connor told The Sun: "You can’t keep chasing shadows. Chasing sightings all over the world. It depends on whether the detectives are making any real progress."
There are 30 officers and support staff currently working on Operation Grange and in March this year, Met Police Federation chairman John Tully voiced his concern about whether or not the investigation was a good use of cash.
He said: "It is surprising to see an inquiry like the McCann investigation ring-fenced. I’ve heard a few rumblings of discontent about it from lots of sources."
A source close to the McCanns said the family was eternally grateful to British police for launching the operation to find their daughter.
Thanks Misty, So here we go again, with the cost of Madeleine McCann investigation. I must admit though, that it will have to end eventually, if nothing is found.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on September 02, 2015, 01:54:54 AM
About time too that millions a re stopped being spent on the back of irresponsible parents
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 02, 2015, 09:50:56 AM
Checking the internet for missing children reveals that three British children are reported to have disappeared while overseas. They are
Katrice Lee Reported missing 28 Nov 1981 Current age: 35
Ben Needham Reported missing: 21 Jul 1991 Current age: 25
Madeleine McCann Reported missing: 03 May 2007 Current age: 12
At present there are live investigations being carried out on behalf of Ben Needham and Madeleine McCann. In Madeleine's case two police bodies SY and the PJ have concluded after review that she was abducted from her bed by a stranger and people of interest to the investigation have been interviewed.
OK ... this investigation has not come cheap. I'll guarantee that those who continually carp about the cost would never think to raise an eyebrow about the cost of policing other crimes, particularly those involving property.
I would suggest that as long as the police on the ground can justify the expenditure to their political masters who have approved funding by demonstrating progress ~ they should be allowed to continue until they reach the end of the road. More and more British families are holidaying in countries where the life of a child can come cheap. The Brinx-Mat robbers found to their cost they would be pursued until caught ... perhaps the same message should be conveyed to those who might consider stealing, not gold but a fair haired, blue eyed British child just to avoid the annoyance of years of pursuit.
I cannot help but think that there are those in Portugal who thought they had committed the crime of kidnapping a child with impunity ... who are now worried about each stranger they think is looking at them ... and each visitor seeking access beyond the villa gates.
Madeleine McCann is twelve ... she has been missing for over eight years. If there is evidence to find her ... keep following it, particularly as that wasn't done for her when she first vanished.
Police traced laundered money around the world IT WAS billed as the crime of the century. The theft of 6,000 gold ingots worth pounds 26m from the Brink’s-Mat security warehouse at Heathrow airport captured the public imagination immediately, and a pounds 2m insurance reward for information further whetted appetites. The four people convicted at the Old Bailey in the latest trial were among more than 30 charged with offences stemming from the robbery, which has cost millions of pounds to investigate. http://robbermagazine.com/gold-brinks-mat/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 02, 2015, 11:04:13 AM
Checking the internet for missing children reveals that three British children are reported to have disappeared while overseas. They are
Katrice Lee Reported missing 28 Nov 1981 Current age: 35
Ben Needham Reported missing: 21 Jul 1991 Current age: 25
Madeleine McCann Reported missing: 03 May 2007 Current age: 12
At present there are live investigations being carried out on behalf of Ben Needham and Madeleine McCann. In Madeleine's case two police bodies SY and the PJ have concluded after review that she was abducted from her bed by a stranger and people of interest to the investigation have been interviewed.
OK ... this investigation has not come cheap. I'll guarantee that those who continually carp about the cost would never think to raise an eyebrow about the cost of policing other crimes, particularly those involving property.
I would suggest that as long as the police on the ground can justify the expenditure to their political masters who have approved funding by demonstrating progress ~ they should be allowed to continue until they reach the end of the road. More and more British families are holidaying in countries where the life of a child can come cheap. The Brinx-Mat robbers found to their cost they would be pursued until caught ... perhaps the same message should be conveyed to those who might consider stealing, not gold but a fair haired, blue eyed British child just to avoid the annoyance of years of pursuit.
I cannot help but think that there are those in Portugal who thought they had committed the crime of kidnapping a child with impunity ... who are now worried about each stranger they think is looking at them ... and each visitor seeking access beyond the villa gates.
Madeleine McCann is twelve ... she has been missing for over eight years. If there is evidence to find her ... keep following it, particularly as that wasn't done for her when she first vanished.
Police traced laundered money around the world IT WAS billed as the crime of the century. The theft of 6,000 gold ingots worth pounds 26m from the Brink’s-Mat security warehouse at Heathrow airport captured the public imagination immediately, and a pounds 2m insurance reward for information further whetted appetites. The four people convicted at the Old Bailey in the latest trial were among more than 30 charged with offences stemming from the robbery, which has cost millions of pounds to investigate. http://robbermagazine.com/gold-brinks-mat/
I know some are convinced that Madeleine McCann was abducted, but there is as yet no proof of what happened to her. Operation Grange may be near to a solution and it may not. Perhaps an update would be helpful? As far as we know nothing has happened since the meeting in Lisbon earlier this year. At a time when the police are enduring cuts to the service they can offer the expenditure on this case needs to be justified. If people choose to go abroad for a holiday they should be warned that any crimes committed against them will be investigated by the authorities of the country they visit, and not their own country. UK police have a hard job with limited resources, we can't expect them to investigate crimes committed in other countries as well as this one.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 02, 2015, 11:22:27 AM
I know some are convinced that Madeleine McCann was abducted, but there is as yet no proof of what happened to her. Operation Grange may be near to a solution and it may not. Perhaps an update would be helpful? As far as we know nothing has happened since the meeting in Lisbon earlier this year. At a time when the police are enduring cuts to the service they can offer the expenditure on this case needs to be justified. If people choose to go abroad for a holiday they should be warned that any crimes committed against them will be investigated by the authorities of the country they visit, and not their own country. UK police have a hard job with limited resources, we can't expect them to investigate crimes committed in other countries as well as this one.
Fortunately ACPO do not appear to hold the same insular view you express. They seem to be aware of the necessity for cross border cooperation and joint working arrangements with their counterparts. What a pity such a joint arrangement apparently could not have been worked out in Madeleine's case.
Investigation European investigations
Increasing cross-border mobility means that many homicide and serious crime investigations involve enquiries in one or more countries. To work with European partners and support an investigation, officers need to understand the policing and legal systems in other countries.
Officers may become involved in such investigations in a number of ways, for example:
an investigation into one or more incidents committed in the UK which involve a victim and/or offender located abroad, or may be linked to other crimes committed abroad
a UK citizen becoming the victim of serious crime while abroad
a request received for information or assistance from investigators in another country.
Investigators may also be involved in working to support the extradition of a suspect.
Further information ACPO (2012) Practice Advice on European Cross-Border Investigations Addendum
ACPO (forthcoming) Fact Files for Investigators https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/european-investigations/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 02, 2015, 01:22:51 PM
The information given by ACPO is about how police forces approach and work with other forces in European countries. Joint working arrangements are just one of the options discussed, and are not entered into as a matter of course. The McCann case comes under Portuguese jurisdiction and it is their choice how the investigation is managed. When Operation Grange visit Portugal they have no more powers than a member of the public. Their role is to assist the Portuguese authorities, not to usurp them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 02, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
The information given by ACPO is about how police forces approach and work with other forces in European countries. Joint working arrangements are just one of the options discussed, and are not entered into as a matter of course. The McCann case comes under Portuguese jurisdiction and it is their choice how the investigation is managed. When Operation Grange visit Portugal they have no more powers than a member of the public. Their role is to assist the Portuguese authorities, not to usurp them.
Did I say otherwise?
However I welcome any initiative to curb the activities of criminals who enjoy privileges of being able to ignore International Borders while those who would apprehend them must go through official channels. Anything which accelerates cutting through red tape for the benefit of law abiding people who have been the victims of crime must surely be welcomed.
There are few cases more urgent than that of a missing child ~ speedy and close cooperation between law enforcement agencies can only promote greater efficiency.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 02, 2015, 02:46:44 PM
However I welcome any initiative to curb the activities of criminals who enjoy privileges of being able to ignore International Borders while those who would apprehend them must go through official channels. Anything which accelerates cutting through red tape for the benefit of law abiding people who have been the victims of crime must surely be welcomed.
There are few cases more urgent than that of a missing child ~ speedy and close cooperation between law enforcement agencies can only promote greater efficiency.
The link you provided contains no recommendations for cutting through red tape. It simply explains how cross border crime is dealt with.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 02, 2015, 04:59:26 PM
The link you provided contains no recommendations for cutting through red tape. It simply explains how cross border crime is dealt with.
Then you have not read the document with any degree of understanding nor have you followed the links within it to the Initiatives agreed with other countries which exist solely to expedite cross border law enforcement.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 02, 2015, 07:07:33 PM
Then you have not read the document with any degree of understanding nor have you followed the links within it to the Initiatives agreed with other countries which exist solely to expedite cross border law enforcement.
Well I saw nothing new nor any recommendations for new methods, but I bow to your superior understanding of the written word.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 02, 2015, 08:00:14 PM
Well I saw nothing new nor any recommendations for new methods, but I bow to your superior understanding of the written word.
With thanks to Anna for the link http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6587.msg268917#msg268917 ...
In an attempt to speed up what is proving to be a laborious investigation, and in the absence of much progress, France and Britain agreed yesterday to cut through red-tape by implementing a rarely-used EU law. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/alps-murders-annecy-squad-to-join-forces-with-surrey-police-8163894.html
It seems I am not the only one to put that interpretation on initiatives implemented by law enforcement ... the wonder of it all is why you think it so important to nit-pick over utter trivia.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 02, 2015, 08:44:41 PM
With thanks to Anna for the link http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6587.msg268917#msg268917 ...
In an attempt to speed up what is proving to be a laborious investigation, and in the absence of much progress, France and Britain agreed yesterday to cut through red-tape by implementing a rarely-used EU law. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/alps-murders-annecy-squad-to-join-forces-with-surrey-police-8163894.html
It seems I am not the only one to put that interpretation on initiatives implemented by law enforcement ... the wonder of it all is why you think it so important to nit-pick over utter trivia.
What I find amazing is your ability to link a JIT between the UK and France with the link you provided. They aren't related as far as I can see. Explain the connection if you wish, or, as is more likely, don't.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on September 02, 2015, 09:44:35 PM
Fortunately ACPO do not appear to hold the same insular view you express. They seem to be aware of the necessity for cross border cooperation and joint working arrangements with their counterparts. What a pity such a joint arrangement apparently could not have been worked out in Madeleine's case.
Investigation European investigations
Increasing cross-border mobility means that many homicide and serious crime investigations involve enquiries in one or more countries. To work with European partners and support an investigation, officers need to understand the policing and legal systems in other countries.
Officers may become involved in such investigations in a number of ways, for example:
an investigation into one or more incidents committed in the UK which involve a victim and/or offender located abroad, or may be linked to other crimes committed abroad
a UK citizen becoming the victim of serious crime while abroad
a request received for information or assistance from investigators in another country.
Investigators may also be involved in working to support the extradition of a suspect.
Further information ACPO (2012) Practice Advice on European Cross-Border Investigations Addendum
ACPO (forthcoming) Fact Files for Investigators https://www.app.college.police.uk/app-content/investigations/european-investigations/
Investigators may also be involved in working to support the extradition of a suspect.
I wonder how they are getting on with extraditing Roderick MacDonald aka Roderick Robinson from Malta ?
He was in custody way back in October of last year and jailed by the Maltese; they said for possessing indecent images of children on his computer IIRC..
Was he not jailed for 12 months? Surely he should be free by now(ish)?
I wonder what is going on?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on September 02, 2015, 10:58:54 PM
Over the last eight years, the McCanns have made a big play of saying ''How could we have known our child would be abducted?'' --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
' The risk of abduction is not the primary reason why young children should not be left home alone. In fact, in terms of how often it happens, it's low down on the list. Having an accident is far more likely. Most accidents to children happen in the home. The risk increases when they are away from their own home and on holiday as they are less familiar with the dangers present in that environment. And the risk increases again if they are left unattended. '
Gerry once said ''if she had an accident in the flat - how would that be our fault?''
' It would be your fault because you weren't there. '
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 03, 2015, 08:51:16 AM
Over the last eight years, the McCanns have made a big play of saying ''How could we have known our child would be abducted?'' --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
' The risk of abduction is not the primary reason why young children should not be left home alone. In fact, in terms of how often it happens, it's low down on the list. Having an accident is far more likely. Most accidents to children happen in the home. The risk increases when they are away from their own home and on holiday as they are less familiar with the dangers present in that environment. And the risk increases again if they are left unattended. '
Gerry once said ''if she had an accident in the flat - how would that be our fault?''
' It would be your fault because you weren't there. '
Perhaps you failed to notice that children dangling from railings on tall buildings is not exactly a unique occurrence in China ~ such is your haste to get a little dig into Madeleine McCann's parents ~ worth noting that at least one burglar suffering the same indignity.
Moments from death... man saves tot dangling from window with head stuck http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/6618148/Toddler-dangling-from-window-saved-by-stuck-head.html?CMP=spklr-_-S9SunSocial-_-FBPAGE-_-TheSun-thesun-_-20150902-_-News-_-230980205
China: Firefighters Rescue 5-year-old With Head Stuck in Skyscraper Window Railing [VIDEO] By Drishya Nair July 24, 2013 09:09 BST http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chinese-girl-head-stuck-window-rescue-video-494126
Chinese toddler dangling over 40ft drop plucked to safety by rescuer who scaled side of building to save him By CHRIS PARSONS PUBLISHED: 13:30, 6 June 2012 | UPDATED: 10:51, 7 June 2012 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155298/Chinese-toddler-dangling-40ft-drop-plucked-safety-rescuer.html#ixzz3ketiI2sW
Chinese boy filmed stuck on balcony 66ft up Dramatic video shows a policeman rescue a four-year-old boy left clinging onto the seventh floor of a building in Chongqing, China. 4:25PM GMT 07 Mar 2013 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9915474/Chinese-boy-filmed-stuck-on-balcony-66ft-up.html
Girl gets head wedged in railings in China http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsn8r3_girl-gets-head-wedged-in-railings-in-china_news
Dangling burglar rescued by firemen http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xib462_dangling-burglar-rescued-by-firemen_news
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on September 03, 2015, 09:17:15 AM
Perhaps you failed to notice that children dangling from railings on tall buildings is not exactly a unique occurrence in China ~ such is your haste to get a little dig into Madeleine McCann's parents ~ worth noting that at least one burglar suffering the same indignity.
Moments from death... man saves tot dangling from window with head stuck http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/6618148/Toddler-dangling-from-window-saved-by-stuck-head.html?CMP=spklr-_-S9SunSocial-_-FBPAGE-_-TheSun-thesun-_-20150902-_-News-_-230980205
China: Firefighters Rescue 5-year-old With Head Stuck in Skyscraper Window Railing [VIDEO] By Drishya Nair July 24, 2013 09:09 BST http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chinese-girl-head-stuck-window-rescue-video-494126
Chinese toddler dangling over 40ft drop plucked to safety by rescuer who scaled side of building to save him By CHRIS PARSONS PUBLISHED: 13:30, 6 June 2012 | UPDATED: 10:51, 7 June 2012 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155298/Chinese-toddler-dangling-40ft-drop-plucked-safety-rescuer.html#ixzz3ketiI2sW
Chinese boy filmed stuck on balcony 66ft up Dramatic video shows a policeman rescue a four-year-old boy left clinging onto the seventh floor of a building in Chongqing, China. 4:25PM GMT 07 Mar 2013 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/9915474/Chinese-boy-filmed-stuck-on-balcony-66ft-up.html
Girl gets head wedged in railings in China http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsn8r3_girl-gets-head-wedged-in-railings-in-china_news
Dangling burglar rescued by firemen http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xib462_dangling-burglar-rescued-by-firemen_news
Perhaps you have yet to understand, that very young children should not be left alone for extended periods. 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on September 03, 2015, 10:51:19 PM
He was in custody way back in October of last year and jailed by the Maltese; they said for possessing indecent images of children on his computer IIRC..
Was he not jailed for 12 months? Surely he should be free by now(ish)?
I wonder what is going on?
I did ask but someone thought it best to wipe my post, what has this person go to do with the case?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on September 03, 2015, 11:32:05 PM
From the link posted by Sadie last time we discussed this man ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5426.230;wap2
**Snip MacDonald was due to be extradited to the UK after he was remanded in custody in Malta.
But when detectives there searched his flat, in the quiet village of Sannat, they uncovered a stash of child pornography and sentenced him to 16 months in prison.
This forced Scotland Yard detectives to jet out to Malta in order to question him at the Corradino Correctional Facility outside the capital Valletta. http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/local-news/convicted-aldershot-paedophile-questioned-over-8218098
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 04, 2015, 12:29:48 PM
McDonald was in Australia and New Zealand between 2001-2009, when he left New Zealand for the UK. In March 2010 he was arrested in Portugal and he was extradited to Australia. He wasn't in Portugal in 2007. Maybe Op Grange thought he may have had information about 'gangs' but he wasn't around in Portugal when Madeleine disappeared.
Bottom of page 29; http://ceop.police.uk/Documents/CEOP_AnnualReview_09-10.pdf
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on September 04, 2015, 12:46:08 PM
From the link posted by Sadie last time we discussed this man ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5426.230;wap2
**Snip MacDonald was due to be extradited to the UK after he was remanded in custody in Malta.
But when detectives there searched his flat, in the quiet village of Sannat, they uncovered a stash of child pornography and sentenced him to 16 months in prison.
This forced Scotland Yard detectives to jet out to Malta in order to question him at the Corradino Correctional Facility outside the capital Valletta. http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/local-news/convicted-aldershot-paedophile-questioned-over-8218098
So Sadie was incorrect in saying...
Quote
Operation Grange were trying to extradite him.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 04, 2015, 01:22:29 PM
There was an international arrest warrant for him to be returned to the UK. It seems to have been connected to his conviction for molesting two young girls in Brighton in 2012. He fled while still on licence for those offences. I can see no reason why Operation Grange would have applied for the warrant, it would be those who dealt with the Brighton case I would think. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793541/on-run-british-paedophile-portugal-madeleine-mccann-disappeared-quizzed-detectives-arrested-malta.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 04, 2015, 01:42:36 PM
Obviously your little googly thing is broken or you are just too lazy to use it. Mine has thrown up plenty of hits ... here is one look out the others for yourself'
**Snip A British paedophile has been interviewed by police in his jail cell in Malta about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in 2007.
Roderick MacDonald, 77, was quizzed as part of Operation Grange by Scotland Yard detectives.
They wanted to know about MacDonald's links to a paedophile ring which was active in Portugal and has been linked to Madeleine's disappearance.
A former friend of MacDonald revealed he boasted about his time in the Algarve area.
"He was always talking about how he was in the Algarve when Madeleine went missing," they said. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/madeleine-mccann-police-interview-uk-paedophile-roderick-macdonald-malta-prison-cell-1477802
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on September 04, 2015, 01:44:56 PM
Obviously your little googly thing is broken or you are just too lazy to use it. Mine has thrown up plenty of hits ... here is one look out the others for yourself'
**Snip A British paedophile has been interviewed by police in his jail cell in Malta about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in 2007.
Roderick MacDonald, 77, was quizzed as part of Operation Grange by Scotland Yard detectives.
They wanted to know about MacDonald's links to a paedophile ring which was active in Portugal and has been linked to Madeleine's disappearance.
A former friend of MacDonald revealeBd he boasted about his time in the Algarve area.
"He was always talking about how he was in the Algarve when Madeleine went missing," they said. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/madeleine-mccann-police-interview-uk-paedophile-roderick-macdonald-malta-prison-cell-1477802
Now read what Sadie said.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 04, 2015, 02:05:18 PM
I can't decide if you can't help it or if you are being deliberately obtuse.
According to CEOP this guy was in Australia and New Zealand in 2007. He lied to his friend or his friend lied when saying he was in the Algarve when MM went missing. Read my CEOP link. The international arrest warrant was issued because he left the UK while on licence for offences commited in Brighton.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on September 04, 2015, 04:21:25 PM
I can't decide if you can't help it or if you are being deliberately obtuse.
If you can't tell the difference between Operation Grange talking to someone and Operation Grange failing to extradite that person then it will be difficult to help you understand.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anna on September 04, 2015, 06:36:46 PM
According to CEOP this guy was in Australia and New Zealand in 2007. He lied to his friend or his friend lied when saying he was in the Algarve when MM went missing. Read my CEOP link. The international arrest warrant was issued because he left the UK while on licence for offences commited in Brighton.
Nobody knew where he was, with his stolen passports and boats, until he was arrested in a country….. which he most certainly was in a few cases. So where else, (unknown to us and the country that he was supposed to be in), could he have been and when??? Nobody knew that he had left new Zealand until he was arrested in Portugal with another person’s passport. Smith?.
Briton arrested over child sex
Roderick Robinson, 73, was detained in Pattaya on Tuesday, having been on the run from Australia since 2001. The Thai authorities have said British-born Robinson's right to stay in the country had been cancelled and he would be deported back to the UK. Robinson was first arrested in 2001 in Australia for the alleged assault of a young girl and was bailed pending court hearings, according to the Ceop spokeswoman. He failed to appear to answer the charges in 2001 and fled to New Zealand where he was arrested for child sex offences allegedly committed there. He was granted bail with the requirement he surrender his passport, but in November 2009 using a stolen passport, Robinson left New Zealand. Ceop investigators, working with local police and the UK Border Agency, then traced him to Portugal where he was arrested in March 2010 and brought back to Australia. But having been given bail, Robinson once again used a forged passport and made his way to Thailand where he was arrested this week. A Ceop spokeswoman said that once back in the UK, Robinson would be met by police and put on the sex offenders register. She added: "As part of the notification requirements of this, he will be required to inform police of any travel plans." The Ceop spokeswoman said that the Australian authorities could apply for him to be deported to face the outstanding charges there or they might simply allow him to be managed by the British authorities. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/229684/Briton-arrested-over-child-sex
Dont you remember? Andy Redwood coming back looking very upset cos the Maltese refused.
Extradition of this person by the UK had nothing to do with Madeleine's case IIRC. Do you think any s..mmy paedophile might know about the kidnapping if she was kidnapped for her bloodline as you say , again IIRC, and being well looked after by rich elites? That's what I don't get. From your posts. My point being, there has been too much tenuous linking in this case, sometimes going from the sublime to the ridiculous, much of it probably made up by the press.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 05, 2015, 10:52:41 AM
Extradition of this person by the UK had nothing to do with Madeleine's case IIRC. Do you think any s..mmy paedophile might know about the kidnapping if she was kidnapped for her bloodline as you say , again IIRC, and being well looked after by rich elites? That's what I don't get. From your posts. My point being, there has been too much tenuous linking in this case, sometimes going from the sublime to the ridiculous, much of it probably made up by the press.
I would say that "any s..mmy paedophile" with a known connection to Portugal might be worthy of a little bit of attention from a competent police investigation team.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 05, 2015, 11:02:20 AM
I would say that "any s..mmy paedophile" with a known connection to Portugal might be worthy of a little bit of attention from a competent police investigation team.
It was probably worth speaking to him and they did. He was not, however, in Portugal at the time of Madeleine's disappearance, he was in New Zealand. Operation Grange did not try to extradite him from Malta either as far as I can discover. All gossip, speculation, and myths.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 05, 2015, 11:34:35 AM
It was probably worth speaking to him and they did. He was not, however, in Portugal at the time of Madeleine's disappearance, he was in New Zealand. Operation Grange did not try to extradite him from Malta either as far as I can discover. All gossip, speculation, and myths.
Actually Roderick whoever's patronym he happens to have appropriated for the time being has been questioned by SY detectives. It is very doubtful if he could be classed as the latest news.
Of far more interest is the fact that the Portuguese authorities have confirmed that there is no intention of the Madeleine McCann investigation being wound down. Particularly as they are in the process of cooperating in a letter of request from the British authorities.
I must admit it is rather perplexing that some low lives are encouraging other like minded low lives to vote "NO" in a poll - "should we continue the search for Madeleine McCann" - because real members of the Great British Public have been overwhelmingly voting "YES ... we should continue".
Where does that depth of malice and hatred for a missing child come from ... at what is probably the 11th hour of a search for her ... they are actually voting and encouraging others to discontinue.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 05, 2015, 11:49:26 AM
Actually Roderick whoever's patronym he happens to have appropriated for the time being has been questioned by SY detectives. It is very doubtful if he could be classed as the latest news.
Of far more interest is the fact that the Portuguese authorities have confirmed that there is no intention of the Madeleine McCann investigation being wound down. Particularly as they are in the process of cooperating in a letter of request from the British authorities.
I must admit it is rather perplexing that some low lives are encouraging other like minded low lives to vote "NO" in a poll - "should we continue the search for Madeleine McCann" - because real members of the Great British Public have been overwhelmingly voting "YES ... we should continue".
Where does that depth of malice and hatred for a missing child come from ... at what is probably the 11th hour of a search for her ... they are actually voting and encouraging others to discontinue.
What poll?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 05, 2015, 03:00:17 PM
You responded to a post discussing the the poll you are asking about « Reply #1704 on: Today at 11:49:26 AM » ... but whatever ... my post has resonance insofar as it is applicable to each and every poll and each and every tabloid comments section where people whose opinion is inimical to Madeleine McCann's case conspire to promote their opinion.
Disingenuous or short term memory problem is a matter for you ... however I think we can accept that you knew the answer at one time to the question you posed.
« Reply #217 on: Today at 10:54:47 AM » http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6587.msg269647#msg269647
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 05, 2015, 07:08:51 PM
You responded to a post discussing the the poll you are asking about « Reply #1704 on: Today at 11:49:26 AM » ... but whatever ... my post has resonance insofar as it is applicable to each and every poll and each and every tabloid comments section where people whose opinion is inimical to Madeleine McCann's case conspire to promote their opinion.
Disingenuous or short term memory problem is a matter for you ... however I think we can accept that you knew the answer at one time to the question you posed.
« Reply #217 on: Today at 10:54:47 AM » http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6587.msg269647#msg269647
Why bring it here? It's being discussed on another thread. Deflection?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 05, 2015, 08:42:31 PM
Deflection from what do you imagine? I wrote it as part of my post ... what you thought you were doing is for you.
I have no idea Brietta. The workings of your mind are, I must admit, a mystery to me. I do know what I was discussing for at least two pages however, and it wasn't some poll.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 05, 2015, 10:35:34 PM
I have no idea Brietta. The workings of your mind are, I must admit, a mystery to me. I do know what I was discussing for at least two pages however, and it wasn't some poll.
I think the important part of my post was not the old hat stuff which is hardly current, but the latest news from the Portuguese authorities letting us know that Madeleine's McCann's case continues to progress.
Do please feel free to have the last word ... if you feel it is important to you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 05, 2015, 10:45:13 PM
I think the important part of my post was not the old hat stuff which is hardly current, but the latest news from the Portuguese authorities letting us know that Madeleine's McCann's case continues to progress.
Do please feel free to have the last word ... if you feel it is important to you.
It clearly is to you. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on September 05, 2015, 10:48:23 PM
I would say that "any s..mmy paedophile" with a known connection to Portugal might be worthy of a little bit of attention from a competent police investigation team.
Another post of mine which went over your head or you obtusely laid into...try reading again
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on September 08, 2015, 01:24:23 AM
Learn to use the net when a child disappears
Correio da Manha
7 September 2015
Englishwoman inspired by Maddie to write a book.
By Cátia Carmo
The disappearance of a child is the most distressing situations that a family can face. The first few hours are crucial to discover the whereabouts of the missing, but the panic did not always let the parents act as correct. At a time when millions of people around the world are connected through social networks, the Internet has become crucial to publicize and solve cases of disappearance. The English writer Gilly Macmillan lost one of the three sons of sight once, for 10 minutes. The son was hiding under the kitchen table. Still, told CM that the horror was immediate. Now decided to tell the fictional story of Ben Finch, an 8-year-old child who was abducted when his mother left her alone for brief minutes on a playground.
The Internet is crucial
In the book don't leave Me, the author uses Facebook messages, emails, and online news not only to give realism to the story, but also to demonstrate the growing importance the Internet has in the disappearances. "Could be crucial to the success of the investigation. The Internet is a very valuable tool for families and for law enforcement, "says Gilly Macmillan the Correio da Manhã.Parents should disseminate missing child photos on social networks. However, they must be prepared to deal with the harsh opinions of Internet users. "The trial of the situation from the outside world can be a burden to the family, at a time when the affliction is already intense," stresses.
Maddie's disappearance was the most striking
The disappearance of Maddie McCann from an apartment in the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz, in the Algarve, without a trace, was the more newsworthy in Portugal in the last ten years. For Gilly Macmillan, who has a son the same age as English girl and usually go on holiday in the South of Portugal, also was the most striking. Maddie's parents left the girl in a room where would sleep only with the brothers, May 3, 2007. In the opinion of the writer should avoid leaving children alone, "but we can't live in fear of extreme cases. We have care and common sense ".
Synopsis: Rachel Jenner got distracted briefly. And now Ben, his 8-year-old son, disappeared. But what really happened that fateful afternoon? Torn between his personal tragedy and a public that turned against her, Rachel doesn't know who to trust. I wonder if other people, in turn, can be trusted? The clock is ticking for that Ben is found alive.
She was already on the radar of social services (toddler nearly run over whilst unsupervised on the street) & had been repeatedly asked to cover the pond. It could also be asked why she was housed in a large property with an obvious risk in the garden to the safety of children. An accident waiting to happen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 10, 2015, 07:57:01 PM
There were a couple of stories posted today about fatalities, they both are lessons that need to be learned about leaving really young kids alone, ie anythng could have happened to Madeleine and the twins and no one would be around to do anything about it if they could
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on October 10, 2015, 08:03:28 PM
The mother was there, the water was an obvious risk she had been repeatedly warned about. Wasn't there always a risk the child would get into the garden if one of the others left the door open & the mother was otherwise engaged?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on October 10, 2015, 08:11:23 PM
The mother was there, the water was an obvious risk she had been repeatedly warned about. Wasn't there always a risk the child would get into the garden if one of the others left the door open & the mother was otherwise engaged?
The mother neglected her son.
The mccanns neglected their children.
They were left by themselves.................
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on October 10, 2015, 08:17:44 PM
In that case, 99.99% of UK parents are guilty of negligence at some stage during their children's early years. Prosecute them all & take the children into care. And, seriously, what's with that cat?!!!!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on October 10, 2015, 09:04:54 PM
In that case, 99.99% of UK parents are guilty of negligence at some stage during their children's early years. Prosecute them all & take the children into care. And, seriously, what's with that cat?!!!!
Slippery Slope arguments again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on October 11, 2015, 08:28:21 AM
Double standards. A mother took her eye off her child for five minutes and gets five years in prison. Another mother takes her eye off her children for five evenings in a row and was practicing 'responsible parenting'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on October 12, 2015, 05:03:03 PM
Double standards. A mother took her eye off her child for five minutes and gets five years in prison. Another mother takes her eye off her children for five evenings in a row and was practicing 'responsible parenting'.
Five years was a bit ott for what ultimately was an accident albeit a preventable one. Leaving three babes under four alone in an unlocked foreign apartment while one goes out for a jolly was but another folly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on October 16, 2015, 01:57:11 PM
7 OCT Chance Walsh Cadaver dog hit on poss. remains/found blood in North Port apt.
Body of Missing 9-Week-Old Baby Boy Believed to Have Been Found: 'We Have Confirmed Our Worst Fears' 15 OCT
Police were first alerted that Chance was missing after his grandmother, Sally Susino, called authorities to report that she hadn't seen him in a nearly a month. She also said that the boy's parents, Kristen Bury and Joseph Walsh, had allegedly told relatives contradictory stories to explain his absence, "including that the child was unharmed, that he died in [a car] crash and that they gave him to a woman at a hotel in Georgia," police said.
Bury and Walsh have been in custody since last week, when they were apprehended by South Carolina authorities on charges of child neglect. No charges have been brought in connection with Chance's death, but a search of the couple's North Port home turned up bloodstains and evidence of blood splatter on the wall. Cadaver dogs also indicated the presence of possible human remains, according to a police report obtained by PEOPLE.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on October 16, 2015, 02:41:49 PM
As they promised, the Official Find Madeleine facebook pages had begun to stream appeals for other missing children, one of whom was Chance Walsh. Unfortunately it seems the cadaver dogs were right in this case and the appeal has had to be removed. Poor child;
Perish the very suggestion that certain people are more concerned with the reputation of a bloody dog than with the tragedy of a deceased child ....
They don't read the small print that comes with the cadaver dogs, Ferryman - and it should also be pointed out that the parents in the case not to be discussed here also had a child which died last year, cause not disclosed as yet.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on October 19, 2015, 07:35:54 PM
Oct 19th 2015 5:49AM
BRADENTON, Fla. (AP) — Police believe they have found the body of a missing 11-year-old central Florida girl in a freezer.
Janiya's mother, 31-year-old Keishanna Thomas, was taken into custody Friday after police say she refused to answer questions about her daughter's whereabouts.
They don't read the small print that comes with the cadaver dogs, Ferryman - and it should also be pointed out that the parents in the case not to be discussed here also had a child which died last year, cause not disclosed as yet.
In ths case there was no "small print to read" misty as the dogs were proved right
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 19, 2015, 10:22:15 PM
BRADENTON, Fla. (AP) — Police believe they have found the body of a missing 11-year-old central Florida girl in a freezer.
Janiya's mother, 31-year-old Keishanna Thomas, was taken into custody Friday after police say she refused to answer questions about her daughter's whereabouts.
The mother is refusing to co-operate. She won't say a word!
Makes you wonder what sick people inhabit this Earth...killing children, theirs or others and putting them in a freezer!
Harrowing
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 21, 2015, 10:45:03 AM
Body in suitcase that police feared could have been Madeleine McCann finally identified By Western Daily Press | Posted: October 21, 2015
An investigation into a decomposed body found in a suitcase in Australia which had already ruled out the possibility of it being Madeleine McCann has finally discovered its identity .
It turned out that the decomposed child's body - which had roused the suspicions of police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann - has been identified as the daughter of a woman whose skeletal remains were found in a forest 750 miles away.
The identities of both bodies had long baffled police in two states until they received a tip on a crime prevention hotline two weeks ago. The caller suggested the girl in the suitcase might be a missing two-year-old named Khandalyce Pearce, South Australia state police said.
Police had sifted through dozens of missing persons profiles to try to identify the child's remains – even receiving a call from British police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, who vanished during a 2007 family holiday in Portugal.
Body in suitcase that police feared could have been Madeleine McCann finally identified By Western Daily Press | Posted: October 21, 2015
An investigation into a decomposed body found in a suitcase in Australia which had already ruled out the possibility of it being Madeleine McCann has finally discovered its identity .
It turned out that the decomposed child's body - which had roused the suspicions of police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann - has been identified as the daughter of a woman whose skeletal remains were found in a forest 750 miles away.
The identities of both bodies had long baffled police in two states until they received a tip on a crime prevention hotline two weeks ago. The caller suggested the girl in the suitcase might be a missing two-year-old named Khandalyce Pearce, South Australia state police said.
Police had sifted through dozens of missing persons profiles to try to identify the child's remains – even receiving a call from British police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, who vanished during a 2007 family holiday in Portugal.
This is awful. I really don't want to think about what happened to that poor child after she was separated from her mother. But The Australian Police are well on track to finding the perpetrator.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 21, 2015, 11:34:30 AM
This is awful. I really don't want to think about what happened to that poor child after she was separated from her mother. But The Australian Police are well on track to finding the perpetrator.
Wonder if the tip off was from an anonymous caller ... and if it was someone making a 'lucky' guess or someone with knowledge. In any case a terrible tragedy and I hope the police are able to get to the bottom of it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on October 21, 2015, 11:49:15 AM
Wonder if the tip off was from an anonymous caller ... and if it was someone making a 'lucky' guess or someone with knowledge. In any case a terrible tragedy and I hope the police are able to get to the bottom of it.
Someone came up with a photo of the child wearing the dress that was found in the suitcase, and reported it to The Police. Someone who was in the vicinity of the mother's body must then have moved to dump the body of the child some 750 miles away.
It's all looking good to catch the perpetrator.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on October 22, 2015, 02:17:28 AM
A reminder to all members.
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Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 25, 2015, 01:18:23 AM
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-detectives-examine-former-6699750 Thanks for posting the link Alfred.
Wonder how they got the information that "Operation Grange has been looking at possible leads in northern and central Europe."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 25, 2015, 01:36:42 AM
Is the the Mirror trying to reinvent Tannerman? SY have ruled hm out lol
Odd very odd story/timing
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 26, 2015, 04:12:38 PM
@Misty
You said ... "Curious timing of such an article, with the GFM appeal closing this very week."
The whole thing is very curious.
If there has been criminal activities carried out against Madeleine's Fund ... don't we have a police service in place to report the alleged fraud to? Why on earth an affidavit for the SUN?
I don't know what may be going on but it seems to be giving some individuals something to chew over so perhaps it is serving some purpose.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on October 26, 2015, 04:21:40 PM
It is just possible that going to the Sun ensured a public airing, whereas going to the police may not have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 26, 2015, 04:43:41 PM
It is just possible that going to the Sun ensured a public airing, whereas going to the police may not have.
Hmmm ... maybe someone somewhere is keen to rehash old 'news' ... the reason will be known to them the rest of us can wait and watch another non-event which like the rest will wither on the vine and never reach fruition.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on October 26, 2015, 04:46:06 PM
I was meaning the Revelation about alleged fraudulent use of the funds. That is certainly not rehashed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 26, 2015, 06:25:01 PM
I was meaning the Revelation about alleged fraudulent use of the funds. That is certainly not rehashed.
We shall see in due course ... however we have had a period of eight years within which an enterprising documentary maker (or someone) could have tracked down the Polish gentleman to get his take on events ... why now??
Intriguing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on October 26, 2015, 08:44:59 PM
We shall see in due course ... however we have had a period of eight years within which an enterprising documentary maker (or someone) could have tracked down the Polish gentleman to get his take on events ... why now??
Intriguing.
Emma loach?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 03, 2015, 11:03:31 PM
A Portuguese police source “We haven’t a clue what happened”
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on November 03, 2015
PJ police reveal: “We haven’t a clue who took Maddie”
As news that manpower behind Scotland Yard’s four-year investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is to be cut back to four officers did the rounds of the world’s press last week, a source from the PJ - carrying out a parallel investigation from Porto - admitted: “We haven’t a clue what happened” to the little girl who went missing from apartment 5a at Luz Ocean Club eight publicity-jammed years ago.
Despite all the police work - not to mention the millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money ploughed into Operation Grange launched in 2011 - police in Portugal say they are no closer to discovering the truth than they were on May 4, when Madeleine’s alleged abduction hit the headlines.
“This is worrying,” explained the source, “because in most cases where no-one is arrested or charged, we know what happened, we just can’t prove it. But in this case, rigorously, there is no definitive idea on what happened. We don’t know a thing.”
The source said it was “perfectly reasonable” to see Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange investigation reduced to just four police officers after so much time, as now all material available has been analysed and it is time for the “second phase” - in which Portugal will be lending its full support.
“We have a great relationship with the Metropolitan Police,” the source confirmed. “And the PJ has never stopped worrying about this case. It is important to try and find answers.”
What was intriguing about the statement put out by Scotland Yard last week is that British police are no longer talking about an abduction.
The truncated investigation centres on “the disappearance” of the little girl. Sky News also refers to the case as a “disappearance”.
Talking to Sky last week, the McCanns’ press spokesman Clarence Mitchell said his clients were buoyed by the fact that eight years on they still feel there is no evidence to suggest that their daughter “has come to any harm”.
- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/pj-police-reveal-%E2%80%9Cwe-haven%E2%80%99t-a-clue-who-took-maddie%E2%80%9D#sthash.xJFO7nBs.dpuf
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on November 03, 2015, 11:11:44 PM
So the PJ havent a clue or know a thing...you would have to be stupid to believe that! And since SY have been working in tandem, it means they feel the same. Oh dear.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on November 04, 2015, 12:30:22 PM
A Portuguese police source “We haven’t a clue what happened”
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on November 03, 2015
PJ police reveal: “We haven’t a clue who took Maddie”
As news that manpower behind Scotland Yard’s four-year investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is to be cut back to four officers did the rounds of the world’s press last week, a source from the PJ - carrying out a parallel investigation from Porto - admitted: “We haven’t a clue what happened” to the little girl who went missing from apartment 5a at Luz Ocean Club eight publicity-jammed years ago.
Despite all the police work - not to mention the millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money ploughed into Operation Grange launched in 2011 - police in Portugal say they are no closer to discovering the truth than they were on May 4, when Madeleine’s alleged abduction hit the headlines.
“This is worrying,” explained the source, “because in most cases where no-one is arrested or charged, we know what happened, we just can’t prove it. But in this case, rigorously, there is no definitive idea on what happened. We don’t know a thing.”
The source said it was “perfectly reasonable” to see Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange investigation reduced to just four police officers after so much time, as now all material available has been analysed and it is time for the “second phase” - in which Portugal will be lending its full support.
“We have a great relationship with the Metropolitan Police,” the source confirmed. “And the PJ has never stopped worrying about this case. It is important to try and find answers.”
What was intriguing about the statement put out by Scotland Yard last week is that British police are no longer talking about an abduction.
The truncated investigation centres on “the disappearance” of the little girl. Sky News also refers to the case as a “disappearance”.
Talking to Sky last week, the McCanns’ press spokesman Clarence Mitchell said his clients were buoyed by the fact that eight years on they still feel there is no evidence to suggest that their daughter “has come to any harm”.
- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/pj-police-reveal-%E2%80%9Cwe-haven%E2%80%99t-a-clue-who-took-maddie%E2%80%9D#sthash.xJFO7nBs.dpuf
Nothing new there but at least the Portuguese cops are honest enough to admit it. I can just see the reaction if the money wasting Met said the same thing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on November 04, 2015, 10:52:31 PM
Nothing new there but at least the Portuguese cops are honest enough to admit it. I can just see the reaction if the money wasting Met said the same thing.
Thats going to be interesting
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 08, 2015, 01:33:50 AM
Madeleine McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell to headline fourth CommsCon
Clarence Mitchell to open CommsCon
The man who has handled media relations for the family of Madeleine McCann is to headline the CommsCon Conference next March.
Former BBC journalist Clarence Mitchell will launch the day by outlining how he has worked with the family of Madeleine, who disappeared eight years ago while aged three from a family holiday, to keep the story in the news. He will also reflect on his career as a journalist and the recent launch of his own communications consultancy.
The story behind the origin of the McWhopper Peace Day campaign will also be presented for the first time anywhere and how Lindt handled media relations during the Sydney Siege, while speakers include Edelman’s Michelle Hutton, UM’s Sophie Price, One Green Bean’s Claire Salvetti and former STW COO Chris Savage. The conference, which is organised by Mumbrella and presented in association with headline sponsor Isentia, will delve into a range of issues and topics designed to help PR and communications professionals better understand their discipline and the issues their ever-changing industry is facing.
Earlybird tickets for CommsCon which takes place in Sydney on March 23, 2016, go on sale today with savings of up to $240 per person.
Former Edelman Australia CEO and now global consumer marketing chair at the global PR agency, Michelle Hutton will take to the conference stage to discuss the opportunities for public relations as a the new category of “communications marketing” emerges.
Hutton will then be joined onstage by creative, media and PR professionals, including UM chief strategy officer Sophie Price, for a panel discussion on should, and could, PR agencies position themselves to be the creative agency of the future.
One Green Bean managing partner Claire Salvetti will be giving a presentation outlining how the agency creates work that grabs headline and media coverage, looking at local and international case-studies to highlight best practice.
.........continued
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on December 29, 2015, 04:57:07 PM
Investigations into the controversial disappearance of Madeleine McCann seem set to continue in the new year at high cost but dubious worth.
The Metropolitan Police Service investigation codenamed Operation Grange has so far cost £12.5 million but has it come up with any substantive evidence to show what happened to Madeleine? The Met is not saying.
“We have not given a running commentary on the investigation, have not discussed ongoing lines of the investigation and the enquiry has not reached a conclusion,” a spokesperson reiterated at the weekend, adding that “there are still focused lines of investigation to be pursued.”
In a Christmas message expressing “new energy, new opportunities and new hope,” Kate and Gerry McCann thanked the Met for the “progress” made over the year, but they are reportedly poised to use the £750,000 left in their Find Madeleine fund to hire a new team of private detectives when the Operation Grange investigation ends.
The Met disclosed in October it was scaling down the Operation Grange team from 29 full-time officers to just four.
In its early review work starting in 2011, they collated more than 40,000 documents from UK and foreign law enforcement agencies as well as various private investigation companies.
Some of this had to be translated into English, facts had to be cross-referred and diligently analysed in the search for new lines of inquiry before the review was turned into a full-scale investigation in mid-2012. Since then the Operation Grange team say they have raised 7,154 actions and identified 560 lines of enquiry, taken 1,338 statements and collected 1,027 exhibits. More than 30 international requests have been sent to various countries asking for work to be undertaken on behalf of the Met.
Officers have investigated more than 60 persons of interest, considered 650 sex offenders and looked into reports of 8,685 potential sightings of Madeleine around the world.
That all seems clear enough, but to many sceptics who have followed the case closely it is all a show, a sham, a cover-up, a whitewash, a conspiracy to hide the truth. They allege the claim that Madeleine was abducted, which her parents have always been adamant about and which the police and mainstream press in the UK seem to accept, is a fabrication.
The Met, of course, will have none of it. Poring through a vast wealth of information and theories in the extraordinary circumstances of investigating a missing child years later in another country was always going to be an immense task and required a full team of 29 staff working on it, is the official view.
“While there remain lines of enquiry to follow, the vast majority of the work by Operation Grange has been completed,” according to the Met.
The team now consists of a detective sergeant and three detective constables who have been working on the case for a long time. They will continue to be overseen by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall. Officers will deploy to Portugal if required to do so.
The Met’s Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley has stated that every possible measure is being taken to find out what happened to Madeleine.
“We still have very definite lines to pursue which is why we are keeping a dedicated team of officers working on the case. “The Portuguese police remain the lead investigators and our team will continue to support their inquiry. They have extended every courtesy to Operation Grange and we maintain a close working relationship. I know they remain fully committed to investigating Madeleine's disappearance with support from the Metropolitan Police.”
The willingness of Madeleine’s parents to go private again begs the question of how any latter-day team of private detectives could hope to solve a case that seems to have stumped not only Operation Grange, but two lengthy investigations by the Portuguese judicial police and expensive earlier probes by three previous teams of private detectives.
An unnamed source quoted by in the British press shortly before Christmas said: “We don't know exactly when Operation Grange will end but while it continues it has the finest technology and analysts.”
The source added poignantly: “Private investigations are expensive and do not have anything like the range and capabilities available to the Yard.”
The Operation Grange enquiry may close in a few months by which time another landmark in this costly case will probably have been reached. A ruling could come at any time now on former detective Gonçalo Amaral’s appeal against the outcome of the civil action brought against him by Kate and Gerry McCann
The McCanns were awarded €500,000 plus interest in damages over his book, Maddie, the Truth of the Lie. If the McCanns lose the appeal, it is thought they may counter-appeal.
As to what really happened to Madeleine in Praia da Luz in May 2007, with the passing of each year we seem no closer to learning the whole truth.
By LEN PORT Len Port is a journalist and author based in the Algarve. Follow Len’s reflections on current affairs in Portugal on his blog: algarvenewswatch.blogspot.pt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While investigative opportunities continue to be followed there is hope. It would only take one to piece of information to lead to the solution of Madeleine's case. Which might well have been less of a "mystery" had all leads been followed as they have been since 2011 to a logical conclusion, which they patently were not back in 2007.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on December 30, 2015, 05:27:51 AM
While investigative opportunities continue to be followed there is hope. It would only take one to piece of information to lead to the solution of Madeleine's case. Which might well have been less of a "mystery" had all leads been followed as they have been since 2011 to a logical conclusion, which they patently were not back in 2007.
The PJ did the best they could in the circumstances at the time...continually lambasting them aint gonna bring the child back.....if its a possibility that is, which I doubt...very much....unless you have some scenario in your mnd which you mght care to share
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on December 30, 2015, 09:11:24 AM
While investigative opportunities continue to be followed there is hope. It would only take one to piece of information to lead to the solution of Madeleine's case. Which might well have been less of a "mystery" had all leads been followed as they have been since 2011 to a logical conclusion, which they patently were not back in 2007.
In your opinion, I think. We have no way of knowing if all leads have been followed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 08, 2016, 05:32:31 PM
http://portugalresident.com/outrage-as-yet-more-thousands-discovered-to-have-been-jettisoned-at-maddie-inquiry Posted by portugalpress on January 04, 2016 A new disgrace in the €16.4 million police investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has erupted in the British media. It now appears that the Operation Grange ‘Maddie probe’ has involved the hiring of private investigators from firms that were actually being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office for “allegedly overcharging” the British government. According to a report in the Sunday Times, both firms were under suspicion of putting in bogus charges for the electronic tagging of released prisoners who were either “dead, back in prison or had fled the country”. One of the companies, G4S, has “since repaid more than €130 million to the Treasury” over the scandal, but it is still another low moment for the Metropolitan Police which has come under enormous criticism for spending so much money on the Maddie investigation over the past eight-plus years, without coming up with one single charge or provable theory. According to stories in the media today, “up to 81 officers from private security firm G4S were recruited to assist Operation Grange - even though at one stage 31 detectives were assigned to work on the case full-time”. G4S was also involved in Operations Yewtree, the Met’s child sex abuse inquiry, and Withern - a probe into the 2011 London riots. But it is the Maddie angle that has inflamed tabloid media, as it centres on the “failed” aspects of police investigations this far, and how much they have cost the British taxpayer. The information emerged as a result of documents obtained under Freedom of Information laws, explained the Sunday Times, quoting shadow police minister Jack Dromey as saying: “The public will be rightly concerned at the creeping privatisation of core police functions and that the policing of their communities is being increasingly handed over to private companies”. Where the revelations will leave the already “drastically scaled down” Maddie investigation is anyone’s guess. Here in Portugal, the PJ’s parallel investigation remains ongoing, although not exclusively focused on finding the British toddler who disappeared without trace from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in May 2007. As a police source told us late last year, the case has been “worrying, because in most cases where no-one is arrested or charged, we know what happened, we just can’t prove it. “But in this case, rigorously, there is no definitive idea on what happened. We don’t know a thing”. As Sky News Martin Brunt said on air last October, “it is a case of £10 million spent and nothing achieved”. Since then, the investigation’s total expenditure has increased, with the figure of €16.4 million due to be reached by April this year.
http://portugalresident.com/outrage-as-yet-more-thousands-discovered-to-have-been-jettisoned-at-maddie-inquiry Posted by portugalpress on January 04, 2016 A new disgrace in the €16.4 million police investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has erupted in the British media. It now appears that the Operation Grange ‘Maddie probe’ has involved the hiring of private investigators from firms that were actually being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office for “allegedly overcharging” the British government. According to a report in the Sunday Times, both firms were under suspicion of putting in bogus charges for the electronic tagging of released prisoners who were either “dead, back in prison or had fled the country”. One of the companies, G4S, has “since repaid more than €130 million to the Treasury” over the scandal, but it is still another low moment for the Metropolitan Police which has come under enormous criticism for spending so much money on the Maddie investigation over the past eight-plus years, without coming up with one single charge or provable theory. According to stories in the media today, “up to 81 officers from private security firm G4S were recruited to assist Operation Grange - even though at one stage 31 detectives were assigned to work on the case full-time”. G4S was also involved in Operations Yewtree, the Met’s child sex abuse inquiry, and Withern - a probe into the 2011 London riots. But it is the Maddie angle that has inflamed tabloid media, as it centres on the “failed” aspects of police investigations this far, and how much they have cost the British taxpayer. The information emerged as a result of documents obtained under Freedom of Information laws, explained the Sunday Times, quoting shadow police minister Jack Dromey as saying: “The public will be rightly concerned at the creeping privatisation of core police functions and that the policing of their communities is being increasingly handed over to private companies”. Where the revelations will leave the already “drastically scaled down” Maddie investigation is anyone’s guess. Here in Portugal, the PJ’s parallel investigation remains ongoing, although not exclusively focused on finding the British toddler who disappeared without trace from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in May 2007. As a police source told us late last year, the case has been “worrying, because in most cases where no-one is arrested or charged, we know what happened, we just can’t prove it. “But in this case, rigorously, there is no definitive idea on what happened. We don’t know a thing”. As Sky News Martin Brunt said on air last October, “it is a case of £10 million spent and nothing achieved”. Since then, the investigation’s total expenditure has increased, with the figure of €16.4 million due to be reached by April this year.
The highlighted part is the most significant remark from Portugal in the last 12 months, imo.
I think the Portuguese are resolved to keep the inquiry going to conclusion which is appropriate for the lead authority in the case. I don't think they would be bothering if they and SY were not still investigating positive lines of inquiry.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 02, 2016, 01:00:18 AM
Clarence Mitchell: ‘I approached Madeleine McCann disappearance as a major news story’ Clarence Mitchell to open CommsCon Former BBC journalist Clarence Mitchell helped keep the story of the disappearance of three-year-old British child Madeleine McCann in the media for eight years. In this Q&A he discusses the challenges of the case, his career as a journalist and the road to launching his own communications consultancy, Clarence Mitchell Communications.
What was the most challenging part of being the spokesman for the McCann family? There were constant daily challenges. Hourly, in fact. And at times 24/7 – for the first couple of years. Not least having to correct, rebut or balance very rapidly the initial hostile coverage that the family faced, particularly in Portuguese media. False stories based on anonymous briefings on one day were then simply repeated internationally the next day before being re-repeated in Portugal on the third day. UK journalists, especially, were under immense newsdesk pressure to deliver a sensational splash irrespective of the day’s actual events or the truth of something, which meant much of my time was spent dampening down – or stopping altogether – the most lurid, exaggerated or blatantly fabricated headlines. Hostile UK coverage of the Portuguese police also meant the situation quickly became very nationalistic and highly political, too. Cultural differences added to the mix. Being an advocate for the family and their friends, defending their reputation and actions and constantly attempting to pull what felt like a daily soap opera back to concentrating purely on the search for Madeleine was the main overall challenge.
How do you go about engaging with media on such a sensitive story as Madeleine McCann’s disappearance? Whilst it has been and continues to be a highly emotionally-charged situation, I could not, and cannot, afford to be emotional with the media in any way. Tact, sensitivity, understanding and diplomacy were needed from the outset. Not least given the international and cultural differences so publicly at play, quite apart from the core human story of Madeleine’s disappearance itself. I approached it as a major news story as a news reporter would, with all the dispassionate journalistic demands for immediate information, access and briefings that go with one. As a former journalist myself it also helped considerably that I knew what journalists, both print and broadcast, would largely want, how they would approach it and when were their individual pressure points, according to their respective deadline rhythms. It meant I could predict with some certainty what elements of the story they would focus on, how it would play out over any given 24 hour news cycle and, if feasible and practical with law enforcement on the ground, how I could create opportunities for them, while liaising closely with the family at all times. I then prioritised which outlets would get what and when, if at all. Part of it was also daily relationship-building on the ground and developing trust to overcome the language difficulties and improve international media co-operation. Getting local media to share pooled picture and interview opportunities, for example, was a particular hurdle until they understood they could trust me to deliver for them.
What are the key PR skills needed when handling a case such as the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? It needed a mixture of skills: sheer common sense, honesty, rapidity of response, having a clear line to take ready and dealing with the journalists in as straightforward and open a way as possible, given the constraints of the police operation. If a journalist was straight with me in their approach and demands, I was straight with them in what I could or could not tell or offer them, which on many days wasn’t much. In terms of assisting the family themselves, it also required tact and sensitivity and an understanding of their own antipathy towards certain media requests, discussing with them in detail the merits of certain bids and how they may or may not help the wider search. I effectively acted as the middleman trying daily to balance the family’s privacy and law enforcement’s operational restrictions on public statements or picture opportunities with the media’s constant desire and demand for updated information and their central, over-riding desire to help the search. At certain times coverage could be highly counter-productive and it was hard for journalists to accept that. I also took a hard-nosed attitude to any journalistic nonsense, blatant exaggeration or swallowing of downright lies. Later, I acted as liaison with the family’s defamation lawyers and senior editorial figures in the UK, which required tact and diplomacy whilst also making robustly clear the failures of their own internal editorial systems.
What are the lessons you’ve taken away from handling the McCann case that you can apply to your other clients, especially now you’ve started your own firm? To be as human, empathetic and sensitive as possible, whilst still being firm, brutally honest and fair in dealing with both your clients and the media. Common sense, transparency and an ability not to be afraid to say it how it is still takes you a long way in PR, not the latest comms jargon or buzzword. The industry, at heart, is still driven by relationships and the mutual trust that develops as your advocacy grows for a client or your sell-in delivers for a journalist. Nurture those core characteristics in all your client and media relationships and they will underpin your success, bolstering everything you do.
How does working as a journalist for the BBC differ to working in public relations? There were both similarities and key differences. At the BBC, I spent 20 years dealing with hard facts rather than opinion, researching stories extensively and establishing the accuracy of a situation – the exact same attributes needed in PR when understanding a client, their background or product and the facts of their situation. That core journalistic discipline has stood me in very good stead ever since. The differences, though, lie in my originally not being able to express any view as a news reporter. In PR, particularly within reputation management, I had to rapidly become an advocate, taking a position and arguing it strongly on behalf of the client, almost, in fact, a political role. That was a big adjustment to make from simply being the impartial BBC observer and messenger.
How did your experience leading the British government’s media monitoring unit prepare you for working in PR? It gave me a crucial insight into the workings of central government structures at the highest level, along with an understanding of the civil service culture and attitudes – all vital for effective public affairs outreach in my later PR life. It also gave me strong political insight. Although I, of course, operated with strict neutrality under the Civil Service Code of propriety, working for Ministers of the day, no matter which Party was in power. Running a mid-sized team of Information Officers across a 24/7 rota was also good management experience for my later chairing of public affairs and media practice areas in a network agency. In many respects, the UK civil service was the ideal bridging element in my career to make the transition from journalism to PR.
What are the challenges in starting your own PR business? Establishing, expanding and diversifying my core client list as swiftly as possible. I have been fortunate enough so far to have built a public profile that has brought me a valued client base, stretching across the personal, corporate and political spheres. Clarence MitchellMy central challenge now is to consolidate CMC Ltd to become a significant industry presence, whilst building out new relationships and client offers across potential new sectors, for example, in entertainment and sport.
In terms of the PR industry what do you see as the key challenges for the year ahead? The industry still needs to build a far broader C-suite acceptance of the PR and comms function as an integral part of the core management and marketing portfolio. For too many companies PR remains a bolt-on, regarded as expensive, only really visible and valued when a crisis hits. The key industry challenge remains the need for PR to prove its worth daily within the boardroom, not simply as a generator of publicity or some sort of press office add-on, but as the ever watchful. multi-channel promoter and guardian of reputation, brand and share price. In the sprawling digital age, clients – corporate, political and personal – still need to understand that while the day of controlling the message is largely over, replaced by the day of influencing it, the attendant multi–platform opportunities to do so have never been greater. Logistically, staff retention, low pay for interns and an uncertain global economic climate continuing the downward pressure on budget spend will also all continue to present central industry challenges in the coming year.
Clarence Mitchell is the keynote speaker at Mumbrella’s 2016 CommsCon conference, in Sydney on March 23. For more information on the CommsCon program and how to buy tickets click on the banner below.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 02, 2016, 07:32:02 AM
Yep, that's what spin doctors do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 02, 2016, 01:23:53 PM
Clarence Mitchell: ‘I approached Madeleine McCann disappearance as a major news story’ Clarence Mitchell to open CommsCon Former BBC journalist Clarence Mitchell helped keep the story of the disappearance of three-year-old British child Madeleine McCann in the media for eight years. In this Q&A he discusses the challenges of the case, his career as a journalist and the road to launching his own communications consultancy, Clarence Mitchell Communications.
What was the most challenging part of being the spokesman for the McCann family? There were constant daily challenges. Hourly, in fact. And at times 24/7 – for the first couple of years. Not least having to correct, rebut or balance very rapidly the initial hostile coverage that the family faced, particularly in Portuguese media. False stories based on anonymous briefings on one day were then simply repeated internationally the next day before being re-repeated in Portugal on the third day. UK journalists, especially, were under immense newsdesk pressure to deliver a sensational splash irrespective of the day’s actual events or the truth of something, which meant much of my time was spent dampening down – or stopping altogether – the most lurid, exaggerated or blatantly fabricated headlines. Hostile UK coverage of the Portuguese police also meant the situation quickly became very nationalistic and highly political, too. Cultural differences added to the mix. Being an advocate for the family and their friends, defending their reputation and actions and constantly attempting to pull what felt like a daily soap opera back to concentrating purely on the search for Madeleine was the main overall challenge.
The first question gives a measure of what exactly the McCann family found themselves up against in terms of media attention; the tone of which was set by very early Portuguese stories designed to cast the Drs McCann and their companions in the darkest light possible.
The family were at their lowest having just suffered the disappearance of a treasured daughter ~ sibling ~ grand-daughter ~ niece ~ cousin.
What became a war of attrition was unprecedented, in my opinion and fed by the lack of control which would have been provided by a better organised media strategy organised by the investigating authorities. I think this might have gone some way towards nipping in the bud the largely prejudicial reporting based on the leaks purporting to be from a 'source close to the inquiry'.
No bereaved family should have been subjected to that level of pressure: none could have coped. Thankfully that was recognised by the powers that be in Britain who sent a media professional to balance the unequal equation in existence.
That this was portrayed as "political interference" by the source which should have attempted to put the lid on the Portuguese press and their 'source' as soon as the first leaked calumny made its appearance, is risible.
However at a time when all concentration should have been on the missing child the fact it was necessary to "defend the reputation and actions" of her family speaks volumes.
There was no counterbalance in the Cipriano case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 02, 2016, 03:43:40 PM
The first question gives a measure of what exactly the McCann family found themselves up against in terms of media attention; the tone of which was set by very early Portuguese stories designed to cast the Drs McCann and their companions in the darkest light possible.
The family were at their lowest having just suffered the disappearance of a treasured daughter ~ sibling ~ grand-daughter ~ niece ~ cousin.
What became a war of attrition was unprecedented, in my opinion and fed by the lack of control which would have been provided by a better organised media strategy organised by the investigating authorities. I think this might have gone some way towards nipping in the bud the largely prejudicial reporting based on the leaks purporting to be from a 'source close to the inquiry'.
No bereaved family should have been subjected to that level of pressure: none could have coped. Thankfully that was recognised by the powers that be in Britain who sent a media professional to balance the unequal equation in existence.
That this was portrayed as "political interference" by the source which should have attempted to put the lid on the Portuguese press and their 'source' as soon as the first leaked calumny made its appearance, is risible.
However at a time when all concentration should have been on the missing child the fact it was necessary to "defend the reputation and actions" of her family speaks volumes.
There was no counterbalance in the Cipriano case.
The mccanns have used the media for their own ends.
As a reminder, watch mccanns interview with Jeremy Paxman.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 02, 2016, 05:41:13 PM
If you are going to use the media to broadcast something it's best to make sure your story is correct. If it isn't you risk your every word and action being scrutinised thereafter.
The Sun May 4th According to friends and relatives, her mother, Kate McCann, came back to check on her three children and found Madeleine's 18-month-old brother and sister asleep in cots on either side of her empty bed. The window had been forced open and the door left ajar.
"They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut," said Trish Cameron, Madeleine's aunt. "Kate went back at 10pm to check, the front door was lying open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jammied open, and Madeleine was missing."
The Sun 6th May
There was confusion yesterday over early reports that there had been a break-in at the McCanns' two-bedroom, ground-floor apartment at Ocean Club, a resort run by the Mark Warner travel company.
Robin Crossland, the administrator of the resort said he had been present when the McCanns were first interviewed by police soon after Maddy vanished. "They clearly said that they had left the French windows unlocked as they were using them to access the apartment to check on the children throughout their meal," he said
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 02, 2016, 06:39:49 PM
The mccanns have used the media for their own ends.
As a reminder, watch mccanns interview with Jeremy Paxman.
I think you may have failed to grasp the thrust of my post. I have spoken about the scurrilous media attacks most of which seem to have emanated from 'a source close to the investigation'. The first of which appeared in the Portuguese press shortly after Madeleine's disappearance.
To what ends have the Drs McCann "used the media"??? MADELEINE!!! and the Missing People Charity. So what is your objection to that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 02, 2016, 07:13:05 PM
I think you may have failed to grasp the thrust of my post. I have spoken about the scurrilous media attacks most of which seem to have emanated from 'a source close to the investigation'. The first of which appeared in the Portuguese press shortly after Madeleine's disappearance.
To what ends have the Drs McCann "used the media"??? MADELEINE!!! and the Missing People Charity. So what is your objection to that?
The first use of the media by the McCanns was to get out a story which was wrong in quite a few details. The aim was alleged to be publicising Madeleine's disappearance, but because of their misleading phone calls it publicised 'THE ABDUCTION' in the headlines, along with 'THE BREAK-IN TO A LOCKED APARTMENT'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 02, 2016, 10:02:26 PM
The first question gives a measure of what exactly the McCann family found themselves up against in terms of media attention; the tone of which was set by very early Portuguese stories designed to cast the Drs McCann and their companions in the darkest light possible.
The family were at their lowest having just suffered the disappearance of a treasured daughter ~ sibling ~ grand-daughter ~ niece ~ cousin.
What became a war of attrition was unprecedented, in my opinion and fed by the lack of control which would have been provided by a better organised media strategy organised by the investigating authorities. I think this might have gone some way towards nipping in the bud the largely prejudicial reporting based on the leaks purporting to be from a 'source close to the inquiry'.
No bereaved family should have been subjected to that level of pressure: none could have coped. Thankfully that was recognised by the powers that be in Britain who sent a media professional to balance the unequal equation in existence.
That this was portrayed as "political interference" by the source which should have attempted to put the lid on the Portuguese press and their 'source' as soon as the first leaked calumny made its appearance, is risible.
However at a time when all concentration should have been on the missing child the fact it was necessary to "defend the reputation and actions" of her family speaks volumes.
There was no counterbalance in the Cipriano case.
Unless I am hugely mistaken, the Portuguese authorities did not invite media attention at the outset. It was the McCanns, or relatives of the McCanns. No one on the Portuguese side, before the PJ had even arrived at 5A, called the Foreign Office in London, the British Embassy in Lisbon, or the British Consulate in the Algarve.
I shall be happy to debate this point if you choose. My assertion is that people called by the McCanns before the PJ responded were already going through diplomatic channels. So when the PJ was asked about media involvement, and said no media, it was already far too late.
The wheels were in motion before the PJ got to 5A.
Care to discuss? It would be very interesting to see what comes out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 02, 2016, 11:38:00 PM
Unless I am hugely mistaken, the Portuguese authorities did not invite media attention at the outset. It was the McCanns, or relatives of the McCanns. No one on the Portuguese side, before the PJ had even arrived at 5A, called the Foreign Office in London, the British Embassy in Lisbon, or the British Consulate in the Algarve.
I shall be happy to debate this point if you choose. My assertion is that people called by the McCanns before the PJ responded were already going through diplomatic channels. So when the PJ was asked about media involvement, and said no media, it was already far too late.
The wheels were in motion before the PJ got to 5A.
Care to discuss? It would be very interesting to see what comes out.
The gist of my reply to Misty's post concerned the dual standards of those who condemn Madeleine's parents use of the media in their aim of publicising Madeleine and her disappearance but turn a blind eye to the media manipulation which was employed by using the Portuguese press for propaganda purposes against Goncalo Amaral's prime suspects.
Open use of the media by the police is customary certainly in British experience. What is extraordinary is the use of the media to destroy the characters of the people who had caught the interest of the lead investigator with pejorative leaks containing information from an active investigation.
This was a covert operation using a technique familiar from the Cipriano case and probably many others we know nothing of.
When the world's media arrived and 'camped out' in Luz it was surely not out with the abilities of the Portuguese authorities to take advice, if their own experience was lacking and lay down parameters and a working strategy with them.
This was not an invading army who were calling the shots, these were journalists hungry for copy with a timeline to meet ... the pretence that the authorities were overwhelmed just does not ring true. The press presence was annoying and some were annoyed ... should they have been?
Managed competently situations could have been avoided and lasting impressions circumvented.
Advice then and now is to get a missing child's image 'out there' using all media outlets. That was done, not by the McCann parents but by others on their behalf.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 03, 2016, 11:42:01 AM
The gist of my reply to Misty's post concerned the dual standards of those who condemn Madeleine's parents use of the media in their aim of publicising Madeleine and her disappearance but turn a blind eye to the media manipulation which was employed by using the Portuguese press for propaganda purposes against Goncalo Amaral's prime suspects.
Open use of the media by the police is customary certainly in British experience. What is extraordinary is the use of the media to destroy the characters of the people who had caught the interest of the lead investigator with pejorative leaks containing information from an active investigation.
This was a covert operation using a technique familiar from the Cipriano case and probably many others we know nothing of.
When the world's media arrived and 'camped out' in Luz it was surely not out with the abilities of the Portuguese authorities to take advice, if their own experience was lacking and lay down parameters and a working strategy with them.
This was not an invading army who were calling the shots, these were journalists hungry for copy with a timeline to meet ... the pretence that the authorities were overwhelmed just does not ring true. The press presence was annoying and some were annoyed ... should they have been?
Managed competently situations could have been avoided and lasting impressions circumvented.
Advice then and now is to get a missing child's image 'out there' using all media outlets. That was done, not by the McCann parents but by others on their behalf.
I am not going to go through this point by point, as all it would do is generate a post of enormous length.
By the actions of the Tapas 9, sufficient media members had already invaded Luz by 4 May 2007 to make a reconstruction either extremely difficult or impossible.
It was NOT up to a police force operating in a country with judicial secrecy to develop OVERNIGHT methods for handling a media frenzy NOR to provide the resources to do so.
That was a MAJOR diversion from what should have been the police priorities at the time, and the Portuguese police did NOT initiate this, the McCann group did.
I have NO interest in linking this to the Cipriano case. If you think anyone in the T9, or anyone they talked to in the UK, knew of the Cipriano case and thought it important to take a different tack, then cite your source.
They pressed the media button before the PJ got there. They were already manipulating the investigation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on February 03, 2016, 12:05:09 PM
I am not going to go through this point by point, as all it would do is generate a post of enormous length.
By the actions of the Tapas 9, sufficient media members had already invaded Luz by 4 May 2007 to make a reconstruction either extremely difficult or impossible.
It was NOT up to a police force operating in a country with judicial secrecy to develop OVERNIGHT methods for handling a media frenzy NOR to provide the resources to do so.
That was a MAJOR diversion from what should have been the police priorities at the time, and the Portuguese police did NOT initiate this, the McCann group did.
I have NO interest in linking this to the Cipriano case. If you think anyone in the T9, or anyone they talked to in the UK, knew of the Cipriano case and thought it important to take a different tack, then cite your source.
They pressed the media button before the PJ got there. They were already manipulating the investigation.
I have to disagree with you there Sil. No-one was savvy about the Press at that stage. They were all as green as grass on the subject. Neither would they have any reason to know that in PT - the rule was 'No press'. - as that is not what happens in the UK - in fact quite the opposite is the case.
Their intentions in involving the media at that time were purely to help to find Madeleine. The idea that informing the media was in any way intended to 'Manipulate the investigation' is a complete non-starter IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2016, 01:26:05 PM
I have to disagree with you there Sil. No-one was savvy about the Press at that stage. They were all as green as grass on the subject. Neither would they have any reason to know that in PT - the rule was 'No press'. - as that is not what happens in the UK - in fact quite the opposite is the case.
Their intentions in involving the media at that time were purely to help to find Madeleine. The idea that informing the media was in any way intended to 'Manipulate the investigation' is a complete non-starter IMO.
The only supporting evidence for that assertion is the word of the people involved. Imo there was no need to insist on the'abduction' word and no need to describe a break-in which never occurred if the only aim was to publicise details of the missing child. There was also little point in contacting UK media only, as she was unlikely to be in the UK. Better to have insisted that the Portuguese published an appeal, as she was more likely to have been in that country at that stage.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 03, 2016, 01:36:59 PM
I have to disagree with you there Sil. No-one was savvy about the Press at that stage. They were all as green as grass on the subject. Neither would they have any reason to know that in PT - the rule was 'No press'. - as that is not what happens in the UK - in fact quite the opposite is the case.
Their intentions in involving the media at that time were purely to help to find Madeleine. The idea that informing the media was in any way intended to 'Manipulate the investigation' is a complete non-starter IMO.
I am not commenting on their intentions.
But the initial manipulation of the media came from the Tapas 9 side and those whom they contacted.
Equally I am not saying they would have been aware of judicial secrecy in Portugal, even though the onus is on a person to understand the laws of the land and claiming ignorance is no defence.
The jemmied shutters story could not possibly have originated within the GNR or the PJ, consequently that had to originate from the UK side of things. I don't care how it came about, nor what the intention was.
Many readers of this forum may be less than fully informed about the disappearance of Madeleine and the aftermath.
The news crews did NOT descend on Luz as a result of leaks on the Portuguese side. The difficulties that then hindered the investigation as a result of this were NOT inflicted by the Portuguese side, they were inflicted by actions on the UK side. Whether such actions were well-intentioned or not is not the issue.
The issue is who alerted the media, hindering the investigation from the very outset. It did not come from the Portuguese side. It came from the UK side, and very swiftly indeed.
To portray the Portuguese forces as leaky without acknowledging the leaks through the UK side paints a biased picture for forum readers. I am simply portraying a more accurate depiction of the facts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 03, 2016, 02:13:38 PM
I am not going to go through this point by point, as all it would do is generate a post of enormous length.
By the actions of the Tapas 9, sufficient media members had already invaded Luz by 4 May 2007 to make a reconstruction either extremely difficult or impossible.
It was NOT up to a police force operating in a country with judicial secrecy to develop OVERNIGHT methods for handling a media frenzy NOR to provide the resources to do so.
That was a MAJOR diversion from what should have been the police priorities at the time, and the Portuguese police did NOT initiate this, the McCann group did.
I have NO interest in linking this to the Cipriano case. If you think anyone in the T9, or anyone they talked to in the UK, knew of the Cipriano case and thought it important to take a different tack, then cite your source.
They pressed the media button before the PJ got there. They were already manipulating the investigation.
Goncalo Amaral requested permission to publicise Madeleine's disappearance using the media; permission was given. There is provision for the relaxation of the secrecy law in certain situations. Missing persons' cases is one of of those.
From the PJ
To: The Assistant Prosecutor Public Ministry
Date: 04-05-2007
Subject: Request for Divulgation by means of the Press
As it is of clear interest to the investigation of the case in reference, I have the honour to ask you to authorise the divulgation of the disappearance of the young girl Madeleine McCann by means of the organs of the press, with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts.
I enclose a model for divulgation.
With best compliments
The Coordinator of the Investigation.
G. Amaral
Page 33 is a confirmation of this fax. Page 33 A is a handwritten note ? not very legible.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm
When the media was informed the only thought in anyone's mind was for the safe and speedy return of Madeleine.
That it became a war of attrition is the extraordinary aspect. All because it seems a mother found her daughter missing from the apartment and her bed with the bedroom window open and what had been assumed to be a security shutter raised and immediately realised she had been abducted.
A reasonable assumption to make in the circumstances.
There was no 'manipulation' of the case ... only an assumption made later that there was.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2016, 04:17:15 PM
One of the first to contact the media was Trish Cameron;
I feel the necessity of contacting the media and called the BBC, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
What did she tell them? The not quite accurate abduction story;
"They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut," said Trish Cameron, Madeleine's aunt. "Kate went back at 10pm to check, the front door was lying open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jammied open, and Madeleine was missing."
"It looks as if somebody has come in the window, that's either been watching or they've targeted her."...."Everybody has been praying all night," Ms Cameron told BBC News 24. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/1may7/04-05-07-Times-Transcript.htm
John Hill did his best to clarify matters;
"It's still questionable as to whether it's an abduction," he said. "We are hoping that Madeleine is found as soon as possible and safe and well. Everybody here is just wishing that she is found as soon as possible." http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/1may7/04-05-07-Times-Transcript.htm
So we immediately have the family broadcasting a 'questionable' scenario and they have continued to do that to this day.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 03, 2016, 05:29:24 PM
Goncalo Amaral requested permission to publicise Madeleine's disappearance using the media; permission was given. There is provision for the relaxation of the secrecy law in certain situations. Missing persons' cases is one of of those.
From the PJ
To: The Assistant Prosecutor Public Ministry Date: 04-05-2007
Subject: Request for Divulgation by means of the Press
As it is of clear interest to the investigation of the case in reference, I have the honour to ask you to authorise the divulgation of the disappearance of the young girl Madeleine McCann by means of the organs of the press, with the aim of obtaining information leading to her whereabouts.
I enclose a model for divulgation.
With best compliments
The Coordinator of the Investigation.
G. Amaral
Page 33 is a confirmation of this fax. Page 33 A is a handwritten note ? not very legible.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELINE.htm
When the media was informed the only thought in anyone's mind was for the safe and speedy return of Madeleine.
That it became a war of attrition is the extraordinary aspect. All because it seems a mother found her daughter missing from the apartment and her bed with the bedroom window open and what had been assumed to be a security shutter raised and immediately realised she had been abducted.
A reasonable assumption to make in the circumstances.
There was no 'manipulation' of the case ... only an assumption made later that there was.
If I have got the gist correct, you either think my use of 'manipulation' has a connotation that is negative e.g. wrongdoing, or that what happened in the media afterwards implied manipulation associated with a negative sentiment.
As to the latter, I have made clear that I did not follow case, and I do so again. Therefore, I am in no position to comment.
As to the former, you should know me well enough by now to know that I do not do either pro-McCann or anti-McCann. That is simply not my starting point. If you feel the word 'manipulation' has a negative connotation, I am happy to change it to one of several others. Would you accept leveraging? I cannot see a potential negative connotation in that.
The McCann 'team', loosely defined as relatives and contacts, seem to have gotten round to putting a lot of material into the public domain in a very short time. I cannot see how this can be contested. The media scrum in Luz would not have happened if this had not been the case.
Help me out here, as I did NOT follow the case.
Were the press briefings in the UK conducted by the McCann team (sorry, but I need to use a shorter tag than McCann relatives and contacts every time I refer to this, no connotation implied), or were they conducted by UK police with representatives from the McCann team?
Is it normal for people involved in a UK crime to hold media briefings that do not involve the UK police?
If this had happened the other way round would we applaud it? The other way round is where a Portuguese family on holiday in the UK had a child go missing. And then decided before the British detectives turned up, that they should contact relatives in Portugal. And those relatives would in turn contact the Portuguese Foreign Office, the Portuguese Embassy (presumably in London) and, should it exist, whatever Portuguese Consulate is nearest to the incident scene?
If this Portuguese family had, directly or through contacts, got the Portuguese media onto the case by early next day, would we applaud such an intervention into a British case?
If such actions had meant hordes of media descending on the incident scene, would we applaud it?
If such actions had meant the British investigation had to divert significant resources to deal with the media scrum, would we applaud it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2016, 06:42:10 PM
a very similar place is the small seaside town of Watchet near Minehead. It has a similar population and is in a similar setting, with a couple of roads in and out. It relies heavily on tourism. The locals would have been decidedly unimpressed with the type of foreign media feeding frenzy which descended on Luz, I would imagine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 03, 2016, 06:55:06 PM
If I have got the gist correct, you either think my use of 'manipulation' has a connotation that is negative e.g. wrongdoing, or that what happened in the media afterwards implied manipulation associated with a negative sentiment.
As to the latter, I have made clear that I did not follow case, and I do so again. Therefore, I am in no position to comment.
As to the former, you should know me well enough by now to know that I do not do either pro-McCann or anti-McCann. That is simply not my starting point. If you feel the word 'manipulation' has a negative connotation, I am happy to change it to one of several others. Would you accept leveraging? I cannot see a potential negative connotation in that.
The McCann 'team', loosely defined as relatives and contacts, seem to have gotten round to putting a lot of material into the public domain in a very short time. I cannot see how this can be contested. The media scrum in Luz would not have happened if this had not been the case.
Help me out here, as I did NOT follow the case.
Were the press briefings in the UK conducted by the McCann team (sorry, but I need to use a shorter tag than McCann relatives and contacts every time I refer to this, no connotation implied), or were they conducted by UK police with representatives from the McCann team?
Is it normal for people involved in a UK crime to hold media briefings that do not involve the UK police?
If this had happened the other way round would we applaud it? The other way round is where a Portuguese family on holiday in the UK had a child go missing. And then decided before the British detectives turned up, that they should contact relatives in Portugal. And those relatives would in turn contact the Portuguese Foreign Office, the Portuguese Embassy (presumably in London) and, should it exist, whatever Portuguese Consulate is nearest to the incident scene?
If this Portuguese family had, directly or through contacts, got the Portuguese media onto the case by early next day, would we applaud such an intervention into a British case?
If such actions had meant hordes of media descending on the incident scene, would we applaud it?
If such actions had meant the British investigation had to divert significant resources to deal with the media scrum, would we applaud it?
If I have got the gist correct, you either think my use of 'manipulation' has a connotation that is negative e.g. wrongdoing, or that what happened in the media afterwards implied manipulation associated with a negative sentiment.
As to the latter, I have made clear that I did not follow case, and I do so again. Therefore, I am in no position to comment.
As to the former, you should know me well enough by now to know that I do not do either pro-McCann or anti-McCann. That is simply not my starting point. If you feel the word 'manipulation' has a negative connotation, I am happy to change it to one of several others. Would you accept leveraging? I cannot see a potential negative connotation in that.
Madeleine McCann's case was re-opened in 2013 ... since then I have discovered that one of the standard accusations of sceptics is the manipulation of the media by 'team McCann'.
The McCann 'team', loosely defined as relatives and contacts, seem to have gotten round to putting a lot of material into the public domain in a very short time. I cannot see how this can be contested. The media scrum in Luz would not have happened if this had not been the case.
The 'McCann team' was not on standby for the event, for the simple reason 'team McCann' did not exist as a cohesive entity straining to heave its manipulative tentacles into influencing the world's media mainly to cast the Portuguese police and in particular the case coordinator in the worst possible light. An hysterical phone call from Gerry to his sister informing her that the police were telling him Madeleine had probably just wandered and would turn up in the morning, engendered reaction from her. She contacted her local police who could not help; her husband searched the internet to find contact for assistance; she contacted relations; she broke the news to Madeleine's grandmother and she spoke to the BBC. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
Help me out here, as I did NOT follow the case.
Neither did I. I arrived on the scene when the case was reopened and I innocently posted a 'good luck' message on a Yahoo comment page ... and unleashed the whirlwind of Dogs Don't Lie / Gaspar statement / cats files and all the usual accusations and calumnies which although discounted seem to be treasured.
Were the press briefings in the UK conducted by the McCann team (sorry, but I need to use a shorter tag than McCann relatives and contacts every time I refer to this, no connotation implied), or were they conducted by UK police with representatives from the McCann team?
Is it normal for people involved in a UK crime to hold media briefings that do not involve the UK police?
I have absolutely no idea if there were official statements or press briefings in which Leicestershire Police were involved; however I detect a tone that you think the friends and relations of the Drs McCann should have been 'gagged' from giving interviews (if they did). Freedom of speech for Portugal but none for the UK ??
If this had happened the other way round would we applaud it? The other way round is where a Portuguese family on holiday in the UK had a child go missing. And then decided before the British detectives turned up, that they should contact relatives in Portugal. And those relatives would in turn contact the Portuguese Foreign Office, the Portuguese Embassy (presumably in London) and, should it exist, whatever Portuguese Consulate is nearest to the incident scene?
If this Portuguese family had, directly or through contacts, got the Portuguese media onto the case by early next day, would we applaud such an intervention into a British case?
Who has applauded the media intrusion into Portugal?
Who had the power to prevent it?
The victims of the crime had no power over the press, but much maligned Clarence Mitchell did manage to reach a compromise with them which allowed the Drs McCann some breathing space from the scrum.
The Portuguese authorities had the power; which those on the ground abused lending to the feeding frenzy.
The problem as I see it and have already said is that the media presence was not subject to appropriate management and was used in a way by the police which made it subject to abuse.
If such actions had meant hordes of media descending on the incident scene, would we applaud it?
If such actions had meant the British investigation had to divert significant resources to deal with the media scrum, would we applaud it?
The key to preventing the supposed media scrum to which you refer is in my opinion to keep it informed.
Hanging around Hugo Beaty's waiting for the odd crumb of rumour or 'information' comes well within what I would have considered a recipe for disaster.
I doubt that a similar tragedy involving a Portuguese couple on British soil would ever have been allowed to sink to the depths that Madeleine McCann's investigation was allowed to dredge.
The blame directed at her parents for media intrusion is misplaced; for information ... neither they nor anyone else contacted SKY NEWS.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2016, 08:56:13 PM
Trish Cameron contacted the BBC. Rachael Oldfield contacted the BBC. David Payne composed an email to Sky News, although it's not clear if it was sent or not. I don't know what he used to do that, I don't think his phone could have been used, could it?
‘David was also keen to make use of the media and I think he may have conducted’, conducted, ‘may have sent an email but I’m not sure’, I think he was looking to do it but I don’t think, erm, I don’t think that actually happened”. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 03, 2016, 10:03:15 PM
If I have got the gist correct, you either think my use of 'manipulation' has a connotation that is negative e.g. wrongdoing, or that what happened in the media afterwards implied manipulation associated with a negative sentiment.
As to the latter, I have made clear that I did not follow case, and I do so again. Therefore, I am in no position to comment.
As to the former, you should know me well enough by now to know that I do not do either pro-McCann or anti-McCann. That is simply not my starting point. If you feel the word 'manipulation' has a negative connotation, I am happy to change it to one of several others. Would you accept leveraging? I cannot see a potential negative connotation in that.
Madeleine McCann's case was re-opened in 2013 ... since then I have discovered that one of the standard accusations of sceptics is the manipulation of the media by 'team McCann'.
The McCann 'team', loosely defined as relatives and contacts, seem to have gotten round to putting a lot of material into the public domain in a very short time. I cannot see how this can be contested. The media scrum in Luz would not have happened if this had not been the case.
The 'McCann team' was not on standby for the event, for the simple reason 'team McCann' did not exist as a cohesive entity straining to heave its manipulative tentacles into influencing the world's media mainly to cast the Portuguese police and in particular the case coordinator in the worst possible light. An hysterical phone call from Gerry to his sister informing her that the police were telling him Madeleine had probably just wandered and would turn up in the morning, engendered reaction from her. She contacted her local police who could not help; her husband searched the internet to find contact for assistance; she contacted relations; she broke the news to Madeleine's grandmother and she spoke to the BBC. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
Help me out here, as I did NOT follow the case.
Neither did I. I arrived on the scene when the case was reopened and I innocently posted a 'good luck' message on a Yahoo comment page ... and unleashed the whirlwind of Dogs Don't Lie / Gaspar statement / cats files and all the usual accusations and calumnies which although discounted seem to be treasured.
Were the press briefings in the UK conducted by the McCann team (sorry, but I need to use a shorter tag than McCann relatives and contacts every time I refer to this, no connotation implied), or were they conducted by UK police with representatives from the McCann team?
Is it normal for people involved in a UK crime to hold media briefings that do not involve the UK police?
I have absolutely no idea if there were official statements or press briefings in which Leicestershire Police were involved; however I detect a tone that you think the friends and relations of the Drs McCann should have been 'gagged' from giving interviews (if they did). Freedom of speech for Portugal but none for the UK ??
If this had happened the other way round would we applaud it? The other way round is where a Portuguese family on holiday in the UK had a child go missing. And then decided before the British detectives turned up, that they should contact relatives in Portugal. And those relatives would in turn contact the Portuguese Foreign Office, the Portuguese Embassy (presumably in London) and, should it exist, whatever Portuguese Consulate is nearest to the incident scene?
If this Portuguese family had, directly or through contacts, got the Portuguese media onto the case by early next day, would we applaud such an intervention into a British case?
Who has applauded the media intrusion into Portugal?
Who had the power to prevent it?
The victims of the crime had no power over the press, but much maligned Clarence Mitchell did manage to reach a compromise with them which allowed the Drs McCann some breathing space from the scrum.
The Portuguese authorities had the power; which those on the ground abused lending to the feeding frenzy.
The problem as I see it and have already said is that the media presence was not subject to appropriate management and was used in a way by the police which made it subject to abuse.
If such actions had meant hordes of media descending on the incident scene, would we applaud it?
If such actions had meant the British investigation had to divert significant resources to deal with the media scrum, would we applaud it?
The key to preventing the supposed media scrum to which you refer is in my opinion to keep it informed.
Hanging around Hugo Beaty's waiting for the odd crumb of rumour or 'information' comes well within what I would have considered a recipe for disaster.
I doubt that a similar tragedy involving a Portuguese couple on British soil would ever have been allowed to sink to the depths that Madeleine McCann's investigation was allowed to dredge.
The blame directed at her parents for media intrusion is misplaced; for information ... neither they nor anyone else contacted SKY NEWS.
Ok, I have offered you a concession on my part, and you appear to have refused it. Such is life.
That makes it clear that I am able to tuck into the post you have posted, without fear or favour.
Who had the power to prevent a media intrusion in Portugal? No one.
Is it important? No. The important question is who triggered the media intrusion? It started in the UK, before it spread to Portugal.
Do you detect a tone in which I think the McCanns (or relatives, or friends) should have been 'gagged'? Crikey, that is a substantial allegation, is it not?
Was team McCann on standby? WHAT? If team McCann was on standby it would imply that team McCann knew something was going to happen IN ADVANCE. Hence the need to be on standby, ready to react when this event happened.
This is scurrilous. I have made no such suggestion. Please refrain from suggesting that I have made a post to this effect. I have not.
NB I thought the info came out through GMTV, not Sky News, but as I did not follow the case, I am willing to be corrected on this.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2016, 10:15:54 PM
Ah ha! According to Summers and Swan Paul Moyes upstairs in Block 5 used his laptop to e-mail Sky News at the request of one of the group. David Payne, perhaps? I wonder who told them about that? Allegedly the McCanns didn't help them, nor did their friends or Op Grange. That snippet was not in the media as far as I know, so who told S & S?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 03, 2016, 10:29:01 PM
Ah ha! According to Summers and Swan Paul Moyes upstairs in Block 5 used his laptop to e-mail Sky News at the request of one of the group. David Payne, perhaps? I wonder who told them about that? Allegedly the McCanns didn't help them, nor did their friends or Op Grange. That snippet was not in the media as far as I know, so who told S & S?
Not to mention Jon Corner issuing photos to the media in the early hours of 4th May 2007. One presumes that is true as it is in G.McCann's witness statement to the Leveson Inquiry. http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140122145147/http:/www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Witness-Statement-of-Gerry-McCann.pdf
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 03, 2016, 10:55:19 PM
a very similar place is the small seaside town of Watchet near Minehead. It has a similar population and is in a similar setting, with a couple of roads in and out. It relies heavily on tourism. The locals would have been decidedly unimpressed with the type of foreign media feeding frenzy which descended on Luz, I would imagine.
Quite apposite. It was a funeral procession by Watchet harbour that lead to Coleridge writing "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner". The connection is an Albatross around yer neck.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 03, 2016, 11:27:12 PM
Ok, I have offered you a concession on my part, and you appear to have refused it. Such is life.
That makes it clear that I am able to tuck into the post you have posted, without fear or favour.
Who had the power to prevent a media intrusion in Portugal? No one.
Is it important? No. The important question is who triggered the media intrusion? It started in the UK, before it spread to Portugal.
Do you detect a tone in which I think the McCanns (or relatives, or friends) should have been 'gagged'? Crikey, that is a substantial allegation, is it not?
Was team McCann on standby? WHAT? If team McCann was on standby it would imply that team McCann knew something was going to happen IN ADVANCE. Hence the need to be on standby, ready to react when this event happened.
This is scurrilous. I have made no such suggestion. Please refrain from suggesting that I have made a post to this effect. I have not.
NB I thought the info came out through GMTV, not Sky News, but as I did not follow the case, I am willing to be corrected on this.
Bit presumptive of you to offer me a concession ... I have never had the conceit I merit one. Nor do I expect to be treated other than without 'fear or favour'. If you think I am wrong that is fine by me if you say so ... if you can provide a more accurate condition for saying so than I contended.
Did I suggest you had made a scurrilous and libellous statement ... which is not to say such do not exist, because they do and are the subject of much 'learned' discussion.
Who started the media frenzy??? That is along the lines of 'a big boy dunit and ran away'.
As the media furore was unprecedented there was no way anyone could have expected the attention Madeleine's story would attract and would continue to attract.
What is usual in such cases is media saturation to begin with fading rapidly into wrapping for fish and chips. Which is why parents of the missing are advised of strategies to keep their child in the public eye or as the memory fades to remind people of the missing child.
Uniquely this scenario did not present itself in Madeleine McCann's case.
Why was this? I doubt phone calls or emails advising the media of the situation encouraged the longevity?
Rather there was a constant story there feeding the media need for copy.
An insidious drip, drip, drip of scurrilous information about the missing child's parents and their companions titillated the press who gave less attention to the missing child ... the parents and their companions became the continuing story and the focus of editors with an eye to headlines and sales. With a new piece of misinformation emanating from the 'source close to the investigation' on a regular basis ... some of which tied in with what was actually happening in the case ... who could blame them.
I cannot think of another case where the media was used to this extent by the investigators ... nor can I think of another case which generated such media interest.
A chicken and egg situation ~ or the perfect storm.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 04, 2016, 08:41:56 AM
Bit presumptive of you to offer me a concession ... I have never had the conceit I merit one. Nor do I expect to be treated other than without 'fear or favour'. If you think I am wrong that is fine by me if you say so ... if you can provide a more accurate condition for saying so than I contended.
Did I suggest you had made a scurrilous and libellous statement ... which is not to say such do not exist, because they do and are the subject of much 'learned' discussion.
Who started the media frenzy??? That is along the lines of 'a big boy dunit and ran away'.
As the media furore was unprecedented there was no way anyone could have expected the attention Madeleine's story would attract and would continue to attract.
What is usual in such cases is media saturation to begin with fading rapidly into wrapping for fish and chips. Which is why parents of the missing are advised of strategies to keep their child in the public eye or as the memory fades to remind people of the missing child.
Uniquely this scenario did not present itself in Madeleine McCann's case.
Why was this? I doubt phone calls or emails advising the media of the situation encouraged the longevity?
Rather there was a constant story there feeding the media need for copy.
An insidious drip, drip, drip of scurrilous information about the missing child's parents and their companions titillated the press who gave less attention to the missing child ... the parents and their companions became the continuing story and the focus of editors with an eye to headlines and sales. With a new piece of misinformation emanating from the 'source close to the investigation' on a regular basis ... some of which tied in with what was actually happening in the case ... who could blame them.
I cannot think of another case where the media was used to this extent by the investigators ... nor can I think of another case which generated such media interest.
A chicken and egg situation ~ or the perfect storm.
It is self evident that the media frenzy was initiated by the mccanns , for their own ends.
For references purposes, watch the Paxman interview with gerry mccann,, it says it all, as does mccann's expressions.
No doubt the media made money from the story, that's what they do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on February 04, 2016, 08:59:05 AM
Ah ha! According to Summers and Swan Paul Moyes upstairs in Block 5 used his laptop to e-mail Sky News at the request of one of the group. David Payne, perhaps? I wonder who told them about that? Allegedly the McCanns didn't help them, nor did their friends or Op Grange. That snippet was not in the media as far as I know, so who told S & S?
From memory G - so I could be wrong, but IIRC David Payne did send an E-mail to Sky News, but it lay in their email box unread until after the BBC broke the news. If that is the case then that info can only have come from Sky News itself. So it may be that Summers and Swan got that info directly from Sky?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 04, 2016, 09:32:15 AM
Bit presumptive of you to offer me a concession ... I have never had the conceit I merit one. Nor do I expect to be treated other than without 'fear or favour'. If you think I am wrong that is fine by me if you say so ... if you can provide a more accurate condition for saying so than I contended.
Did I suggest you had made a scurrilous and libellous statement ... which is not to say such do not exist, because they do and are the subject of much 'learned' discussion.
Who started the media frenzy??? That is along the lines of 'a big boy dunit and ran away'.
As the media furore was unprecedented there was no way anyone could have expected the attention Madeleine's story would attract and would continue to attract.
What is usual in such cases is media saturation to begin with fading rapidly into wrapping for fish and chips. Which is why parents of the missing are advised of strategies to keep their child in the public eye or as the memory fades to remind people of the missing child.
Uniquely this scenario did not present itself in Madeleine McCann's case.
Why was this? I doubt phone calls or emails advising the media of the situation encouraged the longevity?
Rather there was a constant story there feeding the media need for copy.
An insidious drip, drip, drip of scurrilous information about the missing child's parents and their companions titillated the press who gave less attention to the missing child ... the parents and their companions became the continuing story and the focus of editors with an eye to headlines and sales. With a new piece of misinformation emanating from the 'source close to the investigation' on a regular basis ... some of which tied in with what was actually happening in the case ... who could blame them.
I cannot think of another case where the media was used to this extent by the investigators ... nor can I think of another case which generated such media interest.
A chicken and egg situation ~ or the perfect storm.
There was a constant drip drip drip of information from the McCann side from the moment the media arrived. Appeals, photo shoots, church appearances, balloon releases, celebrity appeals, photos of the child, videos. I cannot think of another case where the media was used to this extent by a family. The less positive stories came from 'a friend of the family'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 04, 2016, 09:35:38 AM
From memory G - so I could be wrong, but IIRC David Payne did send an E-mail to Sky News, but it lay in their email box unread until after the BBC broke the news. If that is the case then that info can only have come from Sky News itself. So it may be that Summers and Swan got that info directly from Sky?
They don't say, so I don't know. Can you find where it says it sat in an Inbox unread? I haven't seen that anywhere so it may be worth looking at the context and who said it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on February 04, 2016, 10:36:25 AM
They don't say, so I don't know. Can you find where it says it sat in an Inbox unread? I haven't seen that anywhere so it may be worth looking at the context and who said it.
Sorry G - I can't remember where I read/heard that - and I'm useless at searching. Maybe someone else will know.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 04, 2016, 12:53:08 PM
They don't say, so I don't know. Can you find where it says it sat in an Inbox unread? I haven't seen that anywhere so it may be worth looking at the context and who said it.
Kate's book, pages 79 and 80.
"Dave, seeing Gerry's anguish and frustration at how little was being done, knew Madeleine needed more help than she was getting. At some point before the PJ left, a retired British couple in a nearby apartment lent him their computer and he sent an email to Sky News alerting them to the abduction of our daughter, using an address listed on their website.
Evidently this wasn't the best way of contacting Sky, because, as it turned out, Dave's email remained buried in some inbox. Despite the fabricated tales that later emerged in certain quarters, suggesting that we had contacted the media before we'd even called the police, apparently the first Sky heard of Madeleine's disappearance was from the Press Association, and from seeing one of our friends on GMTV, later that morning. ... Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC, seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am."
And so, by the time the first section of the Tapas 9 were taken to Portimão on the morning of 4 May 2007, there was already enough of a media presence in Luz to video the event for posterity.
David tried to inform UK media and failed. I've seen a video of someone from Sky confirming that Sky did not break the news. He attributed that to GMTV.
Rachael sought help and advice from a friend in the BBC, if we go by Kate's book. There is no mention of whether said friend passed the story to BBC News.
Several friends (not one, none named, but several) informed the press (manner of informing and which elements were informed not disclosed) some time after 7am. Whether one of these was the Press Association is not clear.
From there to media storm was guaranteed.
Concerted effort by the UK side to get this into the media, and not via the Portuguese police authorities.
The McCann team had already decided who would drive the incident. David, Rachael, and 'several friends'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on February 04, 2016, 01:12:14 PM
"Dave, seeing Gerry's anguish and frustration at how little was being done, knew Madeleine needed more help than she was getting. At some point before the PJ left, a retired British couple in a nearby apartment lent him their computer and he sent an email to Sky News alerting them to the abduction of our daughter, using an address listed on their website.
Evidently this wasn't the best way of contacting Sky, because, as it turned out, Dave's email remained buried in some inbox. Despite the fabricated tales that later emerged in certain quarters, suggesting that we had contacted the media before we'd even called the police, apparently the first Sky heard of Madeleine's disappearance was from the Press Association, and from seeing one of our friends on GMTV, later that morning. ... Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC, seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am."
Snipped...
Thanks for that info SiL. Much obliged.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 04, 2016, 01:16:20 PM
Rachael Oldfield rog. interview;
I spoke to a couple of people on the BBC News 24 desk, so I mean you know, it must'. 1578 'That was on the Thursday evening'' Reply 'That was on the Thursday night'. 1578 'What time would that have been'' Reply 'Well that was sort of you know, midnight after midnight (inaudible)'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 04, 2016, 01:26:41 PM
Sorry G - I can't remember where I read/heard that - and I'm useless at searching. Maybe someone else will know.
It has been denied on a few occassions from Sky sources. You know about it. I know about it. Denial suggest selective memory to me if it emanates from any who take the time to make comment on the case on a regular basis.
**Snip The Guardian, 02 June 2007, reports that: 'Jill Renwick has known the couple since they all worked together at a Glasgow hospital more than a decade ago. She spoke to Kate at 7am on the morning after Madeleine vanished: "She just said, 'Help me, please help me'. She said, 'We've been searching all night until 4.30am, and then everybody left us'. At that stage there was only one police officer at the door. They didn't know what to do. So I phoned GMTV."'
07:30am David James Smith writes that: 'It is widely believed among the Portuguese media, and perhaps the police too, even now, that the McCanns called Sky News before they called the police. For the record, Sky News picked up the story from GMTV breakfast television, at around 7.30am the following day.' http://www.mccannfiles.com/id121.html
In my opinion it is immaterial who contacted the media and when.
The concern is the circumstance which caused it.
Where was the liaison that should have been in place to keep the parents informed and reassured? Why were they in the desperate situation of being left to their own devices when they must have been in the full knowledge that speed is of the essence to help in the recovery of a missing child?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 04, 2016, 01:54:22 PM
"Dave, seeing Gerry's anguish and frustration at how little was being done, knew Madeleine needed more help than she was getting. At some point before the PJ left, a retired British couple in a nearby apartment lent him their computer and he sent an email to Sky News alerting them to the abduction of our daughter, using an address listed on their website.
Evidently this wasn't the best way of contacting Sky, because, as it turned out, Dave's email remained buried in some inbox. Despite the fabricated tales that later emerged in certain quarters, suggesting that we had contacted the media before we'd even called the police, apparently the first Sky heard of Madeleine's disappearance was from the Press Association, and from seeing one of our friends on GMTV, later that morning. ... Rachael had contacted a friend of hers at the BBC, seeking help and advice and several friends in the UK informed the press some time after 7am."
And so, by the time the first section of the Tapas 9 were taken to Portimão on the morning of 4 May 2007, there was already enough of a media presence in Luz to video the event for posterity.
David tried to inform UK media and failed. I've seen a video of someone from Sky confirming that Sky did not break the news. He attributed that to GMTV.
Rachael sought help and advice from a friend in the BBC, if we go by Kate's book. There is no mention of whether said friend passed the story to BBC News.
Several friends (not one, none named, but several) informed the press (manner of informing and which elements were informed not disclosed) some time after 7am. Whether one of these was the Press Association is not clear.
From there to media storm was guaranteed.
Concerted effort by the UK side to get this into the media, and not via the Portuguese police authorities.
The McCann team had already decided who would drive the incident. David, Rachael, and 'several friends'.
Thanks, SIL. The Moyes are not named by Kate then, so it could have been another couple.
The Moyes were never interviewed as far as I know, although they did speak to the media. They mentioned searching after 11.30pm, but not lending out their laptop. Were they retired? They were both 58 years old and had owned their apartment for 6 years. They clearly should have been interviewed. They returned to their apartment around 9pm, going onto the balcony at 9.15pm and then to bed. At 11.30pm they were awakened and told 'a child' had been abducted. Did they see any of the group between 9.00-9.15pm? They didn't say. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id52.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 04, 2016, 02:30:01 PM
It has been denied on a few occassions from Sky sources. You know about it. I know about it. Denial suggest selective memory to me if it emanates from any who take the time to make comment on the case on a regular basis.
**Snip The Guardian, 02 June 2007, reports that: 'Jill Renwick has known the couple since they all worked together at a Glasgow hospital more than a decade ago. She spoke to Kate at 7am on the morning after Madeleine vanished: "She just said, 'Help me, please help me'. She said, 'We've been searching all night until 4.30am, and then everybody left us'. At that stage there was only one police officer at the door. They didn't know what to do. So I phoned GMTV."'
07:30am David James Smith writes that: 'It is widely believed among the Portuguese media, and perhaps the police too, even now, that the McCanns called Sky News before they called the police. For the record, Sky News picked up the story from GMTV breakfast television, at around 7.30am the following day.' http://www.mccannfiles.com/id121.html
In my opinion it is immaterial who contacted the media and when.
The concern is the circumstance which caused it.
Where was the liaison that should have been in place to keep the parents informed and reassured? Why were they in the desperate situation of being left to their own devices when they must have been in the full knowledge that speed is of the essence to help in the recovery of a missing child?
It cannot be said that there was a need to contact the media due to 'circumstance'. If Rachael told the truth she spoke to the BBC around midnight. Had the PJ arrived by then? The police came as soon as they were called, GNR first and they then brought in the PJ.
The 'circumstance' they found did not support the abduction theory being insisted upon by the parents. Speed? Enough time had already passed for an 'abductor' to be miles away. The GNR and PJ can't be blamed for that. The police worked on two scenarios; woke and wandered and paedophile abduction. In both cases searching the immediate area made sense because she was likely to be nearby; dead or alive.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 04, 2016, 03:04:19 PM
Thanks, SIL. The Moyes are not named by Kate then, so it could have been another couple.
The Moyes were never interviewed as far as I know, although they did speak to the media. They mentioned searching after 11.30pm, but not lending out their laptop. Were they retired? They were both 58 years old and had owned their apartment for 6 years. They clearly should have been interviewed. They returned to their apartment around 9pm, going onto the balcony at 9.15pm and then to bed. At 11.30pm they were awakened and told 'a child' had been abducted. Did they see any of the group between 9.00-9.15pm? They didn't say. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id52.html
This is another instance of someone not being asked seemingly trivial questions that would have added to the knowledge pool. Where did they eat? Which route did they take to get home? What did they see on that trip? What was outside the front of block 5? How long did they stay on the balcony?
I would also like to know how easy or difficult it would be to see a man in the alley at the rear of block 4 from their balcony.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 04, 2016, 03:43:30 PM
This is another instance of someone not being asked seemingly trivial questions that would have added to the knowledge pool. Where did they eat? Which route did they take to get home? What did they see on that trip? What was outside the front of block 5? How long did they stay on the balcony?
I would also like to know how easy or difficult it would be to see a man in the alley at the rear of block 4 from their balcony.
SUSAN MOYES Sure. We went out for a meal about seven o’clock down in the town. We walked back about nine o’clock, round past, erm, the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment. Went out on the balcony about quarter past nine. Everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely. We then went to bed. We were woken up at half past eleven at night by one of the friends of the McCanns to say a little girl had been abducted. Those were the words she used. https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/radio-stoke-speak-to-susan-moyes/
There is no record in the files of a statement given by Mrs Moyes. Which is a pity. Mr and Mrs Moyes were out and about in relevant areas at times which could have been significant. They were in pole position to have seen something which may have been of importance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 04, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
SUSAN MOYES Sure. We went out for a meal about seven o’clock down in the town. We walked back about nine o’clock, round past, erm, the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment. Went out on the balcony about quarter past nine. Everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely. We then went to bed. We were woken up at half past eleven at night by one of the friends of the McCanns to say a little girl had been abducted. Those were the words she used. https://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/radio-stoke-speak-to-susan-moyes/
There is no record in the files of a statement given by Mrs Moyes. Which is a pity. Mr and Mrs Moyes were out and about in relevant areas at times which could have been significant. They were in pole position to have seen something which may have been of importance.
So you are assuming they either didn't think about the case and check their memories or didn't see or hear anything unusual or just decided not to contact the authorities.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 04, 2016, 04:20:47 PM
So you are assuming they either didn't think about the case and check their memories or didn't see or hear anything unusual or just decided not to contact the authorities.
What makes you assume that?
Do you have any ideas about what things Mr and Mrs Moyes might have considered "unusual" and how they would know what might have been of relevance and what information they may unknowingly have had?
Information apparently non consequential of itself may have tied in with something said or seen by another witness.
That could only have been determined by collating and coordinating statements from different witnesses who have been asked the correct questions by an experienced interviewer. Something members of the public have neither the necessary experience or the right to do ... it is called 'detective' work.
They thought about the case a lot; giving interviews in the UK and even being quoted in the press and radio. They were directly above Mrs Fenn whose apartment was directly above 5A ... neither they or Mrs Fenn were interviewed in the days following Madeleine's disappearance ??
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 04, 2016, 05:23:33 PM
This is another instance of someone not being asked seemingly trivial questions that would have added to the knowledge pool. Where did they eat? Which route did they take to get home? What did they see on that trip? What was outside the front of block 5? How long did they stay on the balcony?
I would also like to know how easy or difficult it would be to see a man in the alley at the rear of block 4 from their balcony.
There's a bit more;
Sure. We went out for a meal about 7 o'clock, down in the town, we walked back about 9 o'clock, round past, errm... the... the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment, went out on the balcony about quarter past nine - everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely - we then went to bed.
Mrs Moyes says what I think is a strange choice of words. I've never heard an abduction described as an accident before;
it's just unfortunate. Just a sad, unfortunate accident.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id52.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 04, 2016, 06:49:32 PM
Sure. We went out for a meal about 7 o'clock, down in the town, we walked back about 9 o'clock, round past, errm... the... the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment, went out on the balcony about quarter past nine - everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely - we then went to bed.
Mrs Moyes says what I think is a strange choice of words. I've never heard an abduction described as an accident before;
it's just unfortunate. Just a sad, unfortunate accident.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id52.html
I should have read the original link re this source somewhat back in the thread a bit more carefully than I did.
The route described puts the Moyes on the road from Baptista up to block 5, hence around apartment 5A, at a very interesting time. No mention of other people on the street (Gerry, Jes, Jane), or a man carrying a child.
Nor how long was spent on the balcony.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 04, 2016, 07:44:08 PM
I should have read the original link re this source somewhat back in the thread a bit more carefully than I did.
The route described puts the Moyes on the road from Baptista up to block 5, hence around apartment 5A, at a very interesting time. No mention of other people on the street (Gerry, Jes, Jane), or a man carrying a child.
Nor how long was spent on the balcony.
Were the only people out on the street around that time "(Gerry, Jes, Jane), or a man carrying a child."? Had the Moyes been adequately questioned we may have had the answer to that or even known if they had noticed anyone in a vehicle while walking home.
I think you are in danger of falling into the trap of making the Drs McCann and the tapas seven the focus to the exclusion of all else. We have seen how far that attitude, to the failure of running other possibilities in parallel, was unsuccessful in making the slightest inroad to solving what happened to Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 04, 2016, 09:03:43 PM
According to the jack-in-a-box Tapas checkers there was no-one at all around. No people, no cars parked or moving. The only person they saw was Jeremy Wilkins. Matt was checking the shutters at 9pm and he didn't see the Moyes returning, neither did the Paynes who he passed en route, neither did Gerry who left almost as soon as Matt returned. Jane didn't see them either. Amazing how people can be in the same street at roughly the same time and not see each other. Gerry and Jeremy didn't even see Jane!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on February 04, 2016, 09:23:43 PM
Sure. We went out for a meal about 7 o'clock, down in the town, we walked back about 9 o'clock, round past, errm... the... the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment, went out on the balcony about quarter past nine - everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely - we then went to bed.
Mrs Moyes says what I think is a strange choice of words. I've never heard an abduction described as an accident before;
it's just unfortunate. Just a sad, unfortunate accident.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id52.html
I think she got her words muddled...the context was about leaving kids alone...and weve all done it /accidents do happen etc
It has been denied on a few occassions from Sky sources. You know about it. I know about it. Denial suggest selective memory to me if it emanates from any who take the time to make comment on the case on a regular basis.
**Snip The Guardian, 02 June 2007, reports that: 'Jill Renwick has known the couple since they all worked together at a Glasgow hospital more than a decade ago. She spoke to Kate at 7am on the morning after Madeleine vanished: "She just said, 'Help me, please help me'. She said, 'We've been searching all night until 4.30am, and then everybody left us'. At that stage there was only one police officer at the door. They didn't know what to do. So I phoned GMTV."'
07:30am David James Smith writes that: 'It is widely believed among the Portuguese media, and perhaps the police too, even now, that the McCanns called Sky News before they called the police. For the record, Sky News picked up the story from GMTV breakfast television, at around 7.30am the following day.' http://www.mccannfiles.com/id121.html
In my opinion it is immaterial who contacted the media and when.
The concern is the circumstance which caused it.
Where was the liaison that should have been in place to keep the parents informed and reassured? Why were they in the desperate situation of being left to their own devices when they must have been in the full knowledge that speed is of the essence to help in the recovery of a missing child?
I thought I'd seen something about Sky...
During the early morning in question I received some telephone calls from people whom, with the exception of one, expressed themselves in Portuguese to ask whether an English girl had really disappeared in Lagos and about what was being done with relation to this and I informed them that this was true and that inquiries were being made in order to find her. One of these calls, from the person who did not express themselves in Portuguese but in English and which was received between 04.30 and 05.30, was made by someone who identified themselves as being from the Sky News TV chain and who requested the same information mentioned earlier. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MANUEL_QUEIROZ.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 19, 2016, 11:30:30 PM
Ian Woods: McCanns Did Not Call Sky News First
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 20, 2016, 07:48:19 AM
I have never been allowed to say this before. I’ve been given all sorts of reasons — people who are normally brutally honest with me fobbing me off, arguing I am not bringing anything new to the debate It’s been a white-out, like the silence of snow. But seeing the faces of Gerry and Kate McCann yet again this week, promoting the Child Rescue Alert Campaign to track down missing kids, I think it's finally time to speak out. Kate McCann says she lives in a never-ending limbo. But I believe the truth is that Madeleine McCann is never coming home. She is long gone. It is time to stop looking and stop imagining there is some happy ending to this sorry tale. Enough. There is no amount of money the will right the wrongs of the past, no libel action that will cancel out the damage the McCanns inflicted on themselves. Kate and Gerry McCann didn't deserve £11million of our cash to look for Maddie or try to resolve their consciences or salvage reputations. Others have greater need. If you really must blame someone, then Kate and Gerry are right there in front of you. And yet, protected by some invisible force-shield I don’t understand. Show me a family from a council estate who left their child alone to go out eating and drinking who have been lauded with such support and the protection of the state. Last year, a father of a two year old was arrested and prosecuted after leaving his daughter in a car for two minutes whilst he ran in to a chemist to buy Calpol.
Even our British broadcaster was in on the act. A Crimewatch Special in 2013 featuring new photo-fits of Maddie’s abductor failed to acknowledge that the McCanns had been sitting on these pictures for nearly five years. Pictures compiled by their own investigation team whose report they later hid from view when it pointed the finger of blame in a direction Gerry didn't enjoy. They left their child in an unlocked ground-floor apartment next to two busy roads. Too self-assured to hire a babysitter and too self-centred to care.
The McCanns put their own children in harm’s way. Those kids were in danger. Because of their parents. And as a mum I can’t look at Gerry McCann — a man his wife says can ‘switch off’ from grief — without the hairs on my arms standing on end. Kate was no better. There were 48 police questions Kate McCann refused to answer after Maddie was gone. Surely if you wanted to find your child you would give anything, tell police everything you knew, offer anything you had? We are not the police. We cannot pretend to know what really went on. What happened that night will remain a mystery and someone will take the truth to their grave But we can understand as parents how we would feel if it happened to us. Any mother who has lost her child even for a heartbeat understands how horrifying it is.
The prickle under the armpit, the sudden silence in a noisy shopping centre, the blind panic. Running through treacle while time stands still. Waiting for a little face to show itself, telling her off when she reappears because you love her so much you can’t bear for her to be lost even for a second. And in that second you imagined the very worst. When your first baby is born you join a special group of people – a group whose lives have been transformed. That first morning in hospital you understand the enormity of your new responsibility to keep another little part of you alive. You have accepted The Fear. Suddenly the life you knew before is transformed, filled with all the bad things that could happen to your baby. Jabs which go wrong. Death in a cot for no reason. Spots on the chest which don’t go away under glass. You live every second with The Fear that your baby will be taken from you, or die before you and upset the natural order of life turning everything you trusted into a lie. I still live in dread of my children’s lives being shortened, that someone might take them from me, strip away the thing I would happily hand over my own life to sustain. I tell them to shout fire if someone grabs them. And I will never need them to get in a strangers car, no matter what they say. Others give their children phones, hoping these will keep them safe, imagining them to be protection from predators roaming our streets looking for baby prey. Mine sleep with the soft toy bunnies they have had since the day they were born. Not so cuddly now, mostly rags at best.
But rags which I will keep if I live to watch my children grow old. They are keepsakes of another time, when my kids were chubby and twitchy in their cots, when they needed me more fundamentally. For warmth and food, cuddles for tears and encouragement to be brave. And when they leave me for families of their own, for every day I wished I didn’t have to do the school run, there will be a thousand more when I am grateful that I did, knowing I kept them safe. But now the faces I associate with neglect are being used to promote the Child Rescue Alert campaign. And I am sorry, but I am not buying it. Because nothing in this story reads well to the mum in me. Or the dad if that's you. Leaving your babies alone, too far away to see. Knowing your daughter is gone and still able to play tennis. Taking her little bed-time toy, Cuddle Cat, with the last smell of their daughter, and putting it in the wash just five days after she vanished into the night. I speak to people who have lost parents and cannot bear to wipe messages from their answer machine because it’s something to hold on to. They keep them just to feel close. Some even call their mothers’ phone, just to hear it ring and imagine she might there to say ‘sleep tight’ one last time. I would put Cuddle Cat under my pillow every night to be close to the baby I lost. Not wash its memories away. The night before she became a memory, Maddie asked her mother, ‘Why did you not come when Sean and I cried last night? I’d ask her the same question now. How did you leave the daughter you longed to have? Maddie wasn’t lost because someone took her. She was lost because she was left to be found."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on February 23, 2016, 11:15:48 PM
The rags really will drag Madeleines name into everything in an effort to sell copies won't they...no similarities in this case at all and its rather insulting that instead of making the headline about the missing child, it is spun to be about the McCanns.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 01, 2016, 08:34:10 PM
For those who missed it. Panorama on corruption in the Metropolitan Police. 29th February 2016;
During the early morning in question I received some telephone calls from people whom, with the exception of one, expressed themselves in Portuguese to ask whether an English girl had really disappeared in Lagos and about what was being done with relation to this and I informed them that this was true and that inquiries were being made in order to find her. One of these calls, from the person who did not express themselves in Portuguese but in English and which was received between 04.30 and 05.30, was made by someone who identified themselves as being from the Sky News TV chain and who requested the same information mentioned earlier. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MANUEL_QUEIROZ.htm
The original allegation was that Kate had contacted Sky before the police, which doesn't appear to be true.
My understanding of the sequence of events was that Rachael had contacted a friend whose hubby worked for the BBC. It's possible that he then contacted the Press Association to get the word out.
According to Kate (pp. 79-80 hardcover), David Payne sent an email to Sky News at some point in the early hours using the computer of a retired couple in a nearby flat (Moyse?).
I find it plausible that someone on the Sky News night shift did contact the PJ (either through monitoring a press wire or the email (or both). However, it's not clear how well the responding officer spoke English. If whatever he said wasn't very clear, the next opportunity was via monitoring GMTV in the morning.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 06, 2016, 03:25:28 PM
The original allegation was that Kate had contacted Sky before the police, which doesn't appear to be true.
My understanding of the sequence of events was that Rachael had contacted a friend whose hubby worked for the BBC. It's possible that he then contacted the Press Association to get the word out.
According to Kate (pp. 79-80 hardcover), David Payne sent an email to Sky News at some point in the early hours using the computer of a retired couple in a nearby flat (Moyse?).
I find it plausible that someone on the Sky News night shift did contact the PJ (either through monitoring a press wire or the email (or both). However, it's not clear how well the responding officer spoke English. If whatever he said wasn't very clear, the next opportunity was via monitoring GMTV in the morning.
I was answering the assertion that the first Sky heard of it was from GMTV. Clearly not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 06, 2016, 04:38:59 PM
I was answering the assertion that the first Sky heard of it was from GMTV. Clearly not.
Did the inspector understand English? If he did, then perhaps he did hear Sky News. He doesn't appear to have taken note of who the person was, so hard to tell.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 06, 2016, 07:57:05 PM
Did the inspector understand English? If he did, then perhaps he did hear Sky News. He doesn't appear to have taken note of who the person was, so hard to tell.
He understood 'Sky News'. The man was searching, do you expect him to stop, get out a pen and paper and make a note of who called him? Unbelievable!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 06, 2016, 08:16:05 PM
He understood 'Sky News'. The man was searching, do you expect him to stop, get out a pen and paper and make a note of who called him? Unbelievable!
Poor chap was on duty apparently at the PJ station for 24 hours from 8:30 am on 3 May until 8:30 on 4 May. His statement reads as if he was the real coordinator that night. Was he out searching? Or was he trying to coordinate everything from the PJ station? If he was alone, I'm not surprised that he didn't have time to take notes, but then if he didn't, there's no way of telling what he actually remembered of relatively unimportant calls during that stressful night.
What was Amaral doing?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 07, 2016, 07:20:12 AM
Poor chap was on duty apparently at the PJ station for 24 hours from 8:30 am on 3 May until 8:30 on 4 May. His statement reads as if he was the real coordinator that night. Was he out searching? Or was he trying to coordinate everything from the PJ station? If he was alone, I'm not surprised that he didn't have time to take notes, but then if he didn't, there's no way of telling what he actually remembered of relatively unimportant calls during that stressful night.
What was Amaral doing?
When did Amaral take over the case? Was he appointed in the middle of the night of 3/4th?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 07, 2016, 05:09:07 PM
When did Amaral take over the case? Was he appointed in the middle of the night of 3/4th?
The Truth of the Lie. Chapter 3 *snipped* On this evening, May 3rd 2007, I decide to dine at the Carvi Brasserie, in the centre of Portimão, before going home. I have been living for a year in this town, where I lead the Department of Criminal Investigation of the police judiciaire. In 1982, when I was 23 and I had just taken up this career, I had already gone there. There, I had made the acquaintance of someone who was to become my friend, Manuel João. Former local official and sporty, a charismatic person. He always lent a hand to members of the police judiciaire who went to the town for the purposes of an investigation. As an elected local official, he originated the creation of a police judiciaire department in Portimão. Thus, that evening, while savouring fruits de mer, we discuss the problems of Portuguese society. It is midnight when I receive the news about the disappearance of a little four-year-old English girl. The police officer on call was informed about it by the National Guard of The Republic (GNR) At the time of her disappearance, the little girl was supposed to have been sleeping in an apartment while her parents were dining a hundred metres away. An inspector is sent to the scene immediately to establish the initial facts. A forensic expert assigned to security of the premises will join him. All precautions are taken to preserve possible clues and elements of evidence. I demand to be informed very regularly and, before going home, I call on the police on duty to check that all urgent measures are underway. The head of the Guard has already alerted the police authorities at Faro airport and the control post set up on the Guadiana* bridge.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on March 07, 2016, 09:05:18 PM
Does that mean he was overseeing all the PJ cases in that area at the time?
Dunno.
I've never come across anything to indicate whether or not there was more than one coordinator in Portimão at a time.
Faro is the southern PJ regional hub, and Portimão is a satellite, technically within that region.
I had found one of those official notices that he'd been appointed coordinator for Portimão in 2006 (?). I'll post it if I find it again. Prior to that, he was a coordinator in Faro, under head honcho Encarnação.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 10, 2016, 09:04:31 AM
Missing Madeleine McCann's parents Kate and Gerry aware of claims daughter was spotted in Paraguay
15:19, 9 MAR 2016 UPDATED 17:26, 9 MAR 2016 BY ANTHONY BOND , SOPHIE EVANS
**Snip "This news stretches across the globe, it is very important. So if they are in the area we need to find this girl and return her to her family."
However, Inspector Luis Ignacio Arias, of Interpol in Paraguay, told EFE that his office has no 'concrete' information on the investigator behind the claims.
"There's nothing concrete about that person," Arias said of Ali.
He added that the researcher has not even contacted the National Police or the Foreign Ministry about the alleged sighting of Maddie, Fox News reports.
Another local police officer suggested that Ali - who has reportedly not been seen in the area - is only 'getting involved' in high-profile case for the publicity. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-madeleine-mccanns-parents-kate-7525118?
Just a few thoughts on the actions of this rather strange individual ... who may possibly find himself being on the receiving end of a grilling by the Paraguayan authorities who must be less than happy about having to divert time and effort to investigating what looks like a bizarre publicity stunt.
in a covert search for a missing child I rather suspect that taking a large advert in a newspaper is hardly the best way of going about it
if the child ever had been in the location specified in such an advert the one thing we can be certain sure of is that she is not there now
what was he trying to publicise ... the fact he is an idiot??
thoughtless, insensitive and no thought given to the dashed hope - and however improbable the word that she has been seen or how hard they might try to disregard an alleged sighting until it has been checked out, there must have been some measure of hope - of Madeleine's parents and family
I wonder if we will ever hear more about Mr Ali and his 'team of investigators'?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 20, 2016, 08:17:19 PM
Several page thread on the case in the latest issue of Real Crime magazine
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 23, 2016, 11:33:40 AM
Madeleine McCann family PR advisor said he had to ‘think like a journalist’ to keep the story in press for nine years
The man who has kept the disappearance of toddler Madeleine McCann in the news for the past nine years said he managed to do so by looking at the case through the eyes of a journalist.
Speaking on the challenges of dealing with what became one of the biggest news stories in the world at the time, Clarence Mitchell revealed to the CommsCon Conference in Sydney, it was “the first big missing child case of the internet age”. Explaining how he handled the initial issues posed by a press pack of 3-400 international reporters, former BBC reporter Mitchell explained: “I had to look at it as a journalist would – pose the questions a journalist would ask. If you’re half-way to answering those questions you are half-way to getting good coverage.”
After the four-year-old was snatched from her hotel room at a Portuguese resort while her parents dined at a nearby restaurant, Mitchell said it became “like a daily soap opera” as it was “a story that shocked the world and continues to shock”, leading the media to bay for more headlines to feed public interest in the case.
He explained how turf wars developed between local and international press, and how he had had reporters in tears begging for extra information otherwise they ‘would be fired’, leading to stories containing “wild allegations” in the media against parents Kate and Jerry McCann.
Mitchell said the family were initially reluctant to go legal for fear of getting the press offside, but have ultimately taken action against several papers in the UK and Portugal, which Mitchell said: “Did set a marker, we were reluctant to go legal, and the British media calmed down and they have been a lot more responsible since then.”
Mitchell insists campaign materials are included in every news story about Madeleine
The family has had more than 550,000 pounds in damages paid out to the foundation, which helps to fund the ongoing search for Madeleine.
Ultimately Mitchell said his job was to try and bring reporters back to the central message – the hunt for Madeleine – and “not the wider family soap opera which was developing around it”.
Asked how he had kept the story, which has had thousands of front page articles around the world, in the public attention, he explained: “We were aware early on there could be a boredom threshold with members of the public – as awful as that sounds.
“News desks did start to say they need something different, and that’s where the age-progressed images were important and gave us new hooks to create more interest in it.” He said he avoided exclusivity with papers as “that would have backfired spectacularly” saying they key was to get as much publicity as possible.
“Later on, as the appetite began to wane on a daily basis we had to be a bit more imaginative”, pointing to a segment on the second anniversary on the Oprah Winfrey show which showed how they produce the age-progressed images of Madeleine. He added they also insist on campaign materials being used in every story about Madeleine.
“For something that’s running as an ongoing issue you need everyone on board,” he added. Explaining how he approached working with journalists, he explained: “A legitimate tier-one journalist, if they have a good relationship with you, will hear you out, it doesn’t mean they will change their story, but they will give you a fair hearing.”
He also explained how “there’s too little investigative journalism” as “a lot of news desks have turned into cut-and-paste because of the constant monster of the internet”.
“If I knew the journalists and they knew me and I could say here’s the truth of the situation then they’d give me a fair hearing.”
But he warned: “There’s no such thing as ‘off the record’ any more. If you don’t want to see it in print and on the air, don’t say it.
“I would ask understanding as to why we couldn’t get into that today, but it will become clear. Or I’d say ‘if you don’t print that today, I’m promising you you will have something better on Friday’.
“That worked with media I knew. With the Portuguese media I didn’t know from Adam I had to be more careful.”
Madeleine McCann family PR advisor said he had to ‘think like a journalist’ to keep the story in press for nine years
The man who has kept the disappearance of toddler Madeleine McCann in the news for the past nine years said he managed to do so by looking at the case through the eyes of a journalist.
Speaking on the challenges of dealing with what became one of the biggest news stories in the world at the time, Clarence Mitchell revealed to the CommsCon Conference in Sydney, it was “the first big missing child case of the internet age”. Explaining how he handled the initial issues posed by a press pack of 3-400 international reporters, former BBC reporter Mitchell explained: “I had to look at it as a journalist would – pose the questions a journalist would ask. If you’re half-way to answering those questions you are half-way to getting good coverage.”
After the four-year-old was snatched from her hotel room at a Portuguese resort while her parents dined at a nearby restaurant, Mitchell said it became “like a daily soap opera” as it was “a story that shocked the world and continues to shock”, leading the media to bay for more headlines to feed public interest in the case.
He explained how turf wars developed between local and international press, and how he had had reporters in tears begging for extra information otherwise they ‘would be fired’, leading to stories containing “wild allegations” in the media against parents Kate and Jerry McCann.
Mitchell said the family were initially reluctant to go legal for fear of getting the press offside, but have ultimately taken action against several papers in the UK and Portugal, which Mitchell said: “Did set a marker, we were reluctant to go legal, and the British media calmed down and they have been a lot more responsible since then.”
Mitchell insists campaign materials are included in every news story about Madeleine
The family has had more than 550,000 pounds in damages paid out to the foundation, which helps to fund the ongoing search for Madeleine.
Ultimately Mitchell said his job was to try and bring reporters back to the central message – the hunt for Madeleine – and “not the wider family soap opera which was developing around it”.
Asked how he had kept the story, which has had thousands of front page articles around the world, in the public attention, he explained: “We were aware early on there could be a boredom threshold with members of the public – as awful as that sounds.
“News desks did start to say they need something different, and that’s where the age-progressed images were important and gave us new hooks to create more interest in it.” He said he avoided exclusivity with papers as “that would have backfired spectacularly” saying they key was to get as much publicity as possible.
“Later on, as the appetite began to wane on a daily basis we had to be a bit more imaginative”, pointing to a segment on the second anniversary on the Oprah Winfrey show which showed how they produce the age-progressed images of Madeleine. He added they also insist on campaign materials being used in every story about Madeleine.
“For something that’s running as an ongoing issue you need everyone on board,” he added. Explaining how he approached working with journalists, he explained: “A legitimate tier-one journalist, if they have a good relationship with you, will hear you out, it doesn’t mean they will change their story, but they will give you a fair hearing.”
He also explained how “there’s too little investigative journalism” as “a lot of news desks have turned into cut-and-paste because of the constant monster of the internet”.
“If I knew the journalists and they knew me and I could say here’s the truth of the situation then they’d give me a fair hearing.”
But he warned: “There’s no such thing as ‘off the record’ any more. If you don’t want to see it in print and on the air, don’t say it.
“I would ask understanding as to why we couldn’t get into that today, but it will become clear. Or I’d say ‘if you don’t print that today, I’m promising you you will have something better on Friday’.
“That worked with media I knew. With the Portuguese media I didn’t know from Adam I had to be more careful.”
If I had a stab at writing fiction, I could not better real life.
A couple of days ago I sent a proposal to Team McCann on how to leverage Operation Grange while it is still active. I got an auto reply, saying the McCanns are not doing interviews at the moment (I had not asked for one) and that my communication had been sent to Clarence Mitchell, who deals with all media aspects (I had not requested Mr Mitchell or suggested media).
So I thought about things for a while. I sent another missive to Team McCann deliberately designed to auto bounce to Clarence, asking him to flag to Team McCann that my proposal had nothing to do with Mr Mitchell and nothing to do with the media. Then I sent another email, this one designed to NOT get bounced to Clarence, to clarify with Team McCann.
My two efforts got exactly the same response as the first - an auto-reply that the McCanns were not doing interviews, and that my email had gone to Clarence, who handles the media.
Fun and games indeed.
Then I find out Clarence is doing his headline act in Australia, so I'm guessing the amount of attention given to my emails probably defines a zero.
Tragedy!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 23, 2016, 09:05:26 PM
My guess would bet that they get lots of such e-mails and have agreed a policy of not engaging with the senders. Also, you are assuming they want to 'leverage' OG; they may not. I remember lots of pronouncements of support for the initial investigation in public, when privately they didn't think much of it at all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 23, 2016, 09:05:58 PM
I wonder if smeone emailed them a tip off would it go to auto reply?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 23, 2016, 09:15:28 PM
As fir Mitchell, he cant help hmself, some credit has to go to Lord Bell who has written the Mccanns paid him half a mllion quid to keep the story on the front pages for a year
As fir Mitchell, he cant help hmself, some credit has to go to Lord Bell who has written the Mccanns paid him half a mllion quid to keep the story on the front pages for a year
My guess would bet that they get lots of such e-mails and have agreed a policy of not engaging with the senders. Also, you are assuming they want to 'leverage' OG; they may not. I remember lots of pronouncements of support for the initial investigation in public, when privately they didn't think much of it at all.
I've got no idea as to whether they think getting more out of OG is good or bad. I know that I would like to get more out of OG, but that of course is quite a different question.
Their current policy on emails will become a bit clearer to me soon, and to anyone wishing to try a simple test. Can you get ANYTHING to stick with Team McCann? And not get auto-shunted to Clarence?
The truth about Smithman. Is that worthy of Team McCann? Surely that should not get redirected to Clarence?
Think of a topic not worthy of Mr Mitchell's intervention. Then test it out. I predict ....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2016, 09:23:50 AM
I've got no idea as to whether they think getting more out of OG is good or bad. I know that I would like to get more out of OG, but that of course is quite a different question.
Their current policy on emails will become a bit clearer to me soon, and to anyone wishing to try a simple test. Can you get ANYTHING to stick with Team McCann? And not get auto-shunted to Clarence?
The truth about Smithman. Is that worthy of Team McCann? Surely that should not get redirected to Clarence?
Think of a topic not worthy of Mr Mitchell's intervention. Then test it out. I predict ....
If you know the truth about Smithman perhaps you should tell OG?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 24, 2016, 10:59:40 AM
If you know the truth about Smithman perhaps you should tell OG?
I have tried OG on multiple topics, each time offering a piece of clarification that has been laboriously established elsewhere. On each occasion I have the standard OG auto-reply and nothing more.
In the Oct 2013 Crimewatch, both the presenter and DCI Andy Redwood laboured under the apprehension that Smithman had turned and headed towards the beach. The evidence does not support this. Is OG now clear that this was an error? I don't know. I have given up supplying a system that provides zero real feedback.
It looks like the McCann system is much the same as the OG system.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 24, 2016, 11:21:57 AM
I have tried OG on multiple topics, each time offering a piece of clarification that has been laboriously established elsewhere. On each occasion I have the standard OG auto-reply and nothing more.
In the Oct 2013 Crimewatch, both the presenter and DCI Andy Redwood laboured under the apprehension that Smithman had turned and headed towards the beach. The evidence does not support this. Is OG now clear that this was an error? I don't know. I have given up supplying a system that provides zero real feedback.
It looks like the McCann system is much the same as the OG system.
It was intelligence such as yours that was requested; there must be someone reading what is coming in and collating it ... even if just to avoid egg on their faces at a later date should it be found that vital info had been ignored willy nilly.
I agree that zero feed back is not a productive way to handle the situation and I wonder if that was why Heri posted a similar disillusionment with OG as you have.
I understand totally why the McCanns are exercising caution in what they say and do at what must be a very stressful time for them ... but the situation is as it is and you cannot be reproached for going as far as is possible with the information you have passed on to the campaign and OG ... the ball is now in their court.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2016, 12:32:39 PM
Have you tried telephoning either of them SIL?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 24, 2016, 12:47:25 PM
If you mean Kate and Gerry then no. I would expect their land line to be ex-directory and their mobile numbers to be hush hush, otherwise they would get all sorts of dross at all hours of the day.
Someone else has suggested a way of getting round the McCann auto bounce system and I am making progress with that. At the moment I am waiting for the Easter break to pass.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 24, 2016, 01:04:58 PM
If you mean Kate and Gerry then no. I would expect their land line to be ex-directory and their mobile numbers to be hush hush, otherwise they would get all sorts of dross at all hours of the day.
Someone else has suggested a way of getting round the McCann auto bounce system and I am making progress with that. At the moment I am waiting for the Easter break to pass.
This is still on the website;
Investigation Line: +44 845 838 4699
Have you tried this for the Met? You could mark it DCI Wall
https://secure.met.police.uk/email-an-officer/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 24, 2016, 01:48:18 PM
Have you tried this for the Met? You could mark it DCI Wall
https://secure.met.police.uk/email-an-officer/
I'll put these into my file of things to try after Easter.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on March 24, 2016, 05:28:25 PM
I noticed that BHH has now stated that victims of cybercrime should not be compensated if they didn't take the proper steps to protect themselves.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 29, 2016, 02:45:32 PM
Two teenage girls set up a bogus Facebook page offering free children's clothes to mothers so they could KIDNAP babies
One of the teenagers posed as a social worker to try and abduct a toddler
Would-be kidnappers tricked parents into sharing details on Facebook
Girls admitted conspiring to kidnap babies, named as S, W and U, last year
They were caught after one mother from Normanton, Derby, called police
By MATT HUNTER FOR MAILONLINE PUBLISHED: 18:58, 24 March 2016 | UPDATED: 23:33, 24 March 2016
Two girls aged 17 and 18 admitted setting up a fake Facebook page offering free children's clothes to mums so they could snatch their babies.
One of the teenagers, aged 17, even posed as a social worker to try and abduct a toddler from her mother in her own home.
The would-be kidnappers tricked parents into sharing their contact details over Facebook so they could track down a selection of 'targets'.
The girls appeared at Derby Youth Court last week where they admitted conspiring to kidnap babies, named as S, W and U, between September 14 and 23 last year.
They were caught after the mother of Baby U, from Normanton, Derby, called the police on September 21 after one of the girls turned up at her door posing as a social worker.
Once inside the would-be kidnappers tricked parents into sharing their contact details over Facebook so they could track down a selection of 'targets'. asked to hold the child and when she handed her back she said she wanted to take her away for a medical check-up.
But the mother became suspicious and after the girl left she called the police.
Detectives found the girl's Facebook page which had been set up by the 18-year-old, of Evesham, Worcestershire, and the 17-year-old, of Wolverhampton, West Midlands.
A week later the pair were arrested and charged.
The court heard the girls had plotted to kidnap two other babies in Huddersfield and Wolverhampton.
Detective Sergeant Duncan Gouck, of Derbyshire Police, said: 'It was very harrowing in terms of what could have happened, considering how young the babies were and the impact on the families could have been immense.
'The team of officers worked tirelessly on it and we put everything else on hold. The defendants were arrested within a week of the report.
'We don't think the intention was to have all three babies but they were trying to select different targets.
'The conspiracy involved Facebook. They set up a fake profile which they used to contact the mothers.
'Their plan was to gain the trust of the mothers so they could get their contact details. We're not 100 per cent sure how they identified who the new mothers were.'
'The defendants' first target had been Baby W, in Huddersfield.
'However, this never moved beyond contact on Facebook. Next was the Derby case and then the baby in Wolverhampton.
'From the moment the older girl was arrested she told officers she was pregnant but as time went on we realised she was faking this, and we believe that the intention was to get a baby which she would have pretended to have been her own.
'This case was unique to us in its nature and seriousness. I would like to give credit to the families of the victims for their strength of character that they have shown.'
The motive for the attempted kidnap was to pass the child off as the kidnapper's own; an effort was put in to getting an appropriately matching child; it all took some time to plan ...
To the majority of people an absolutely preposterous endeavour as well as an unbelievable one.
However the tale does in my opinion reinforce the possibility that the much ridiculed suggestion that Madeleine may have met the physical requirements to be a 'replacement' child for someone might not have been too far off the mark ... just as Dontae would have been for the phantom child had the plan succeeded.
**Snip Police also discovered the 18-year-old girl had lied to her Jamaican boyfriend and had claimed to be pregnant to get him to stay with her. The teenagers, who cannot be named, planned to abduct a mixed race baby and contacted Ms Ullah when they saw Dontae on her Facebook page.
**Snip 'I didn't really think anything more of it. It was obviously very well planned. They must have been looking through my Facebook profile and seen pictures of Dontae. The police said they'd been watching me for months. 'Apparently one of them had a Jamaican boyfriend and had told him she was eight months pregnant so needed to come up with a newborn mixed-race baby quickly. 'My Dontae, who was just two weeks old at the time, was to be that baby.'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 30, 2016, 01:14:13 AM
MM was not a baby so couldnt be passed off as a newborn to a boyfriend, come on Brietta, that has got to be one of the worst theories "possible" as a lead
And why is ths on the latest news in madelene mccann case? Thread? It does not concern her, maybe should be on a theory thread somewhere
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2016, 07:48:55 AM
MM was not a baby so couldnt be passed off as a newborn to a boyfriend, come on Brietta, that has got to be one of the worst theories "possible" as a lead
And why is ths on the latest news in madelene mccann case? Thread? It does not concern her, maybe should be on a theory thread somewhere
It may no doubt be easier to kidnap a baby and pass it off as one's own as numerous cases attest, the most recent to hit the headlines being the very sad South African case.
The connection with Madeleine's case is that the suspicion she may have been specifically targeted has been derided, but three families were watched and targeted obviously because they met the criteria.
That Madeleine may have been stalked is also dismissed ... in this case, three families were stalked and the object was to kidnap a child.
The question asked quite a lot is why Madeleine? Why not her sibling? Perhaps a three year old and not a baby fitted the requirement just as Dontae met the requirements of his would be kidnappers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 30, 2016, 07:56:12 AM
It may no doubt be easier to kidnap a baby and pass it off as one's own as numerous cases attest, the most recent to hit the headlines being the very sad South African case.
The connection with Madeleine's case is that the suspicion she may have been specifically targeted has been derided, but three families were watched and targeted obviously because they met the criteria.
That Madeleine may have been stalked is also dismissed ... in this case, three families were stalked and the object was to kidnap a child.
The question asked quite a lot is why Madeleine? Why not her sibling? Perhaps a three year old and not a baby fitted the requirement just as Dontae met the requirements of his would be kidnappers.
True.
I've got this theory that someone had the passport of a dead three year old girl. Motive and opportunity.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 30, 2016, 02:07:01 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3512089/Girl-rescued-escaping-2-year-confinement.html PUBLISHED: 11:48, 28 March 2016 | UPDATED: 11:48, 28 March 2016 TOKYO (AP) — Japanese police early Monday caught a 23-year-old man who had been sought since a teenage girl escaped his apartment after being held captive for nearly two years. The girl's disappearance from her hometown in Saitama, near Tokyo, when she was just 13, was major news in Japan at the time. Police said the now-15-year-old girl escaped from suspect Kabu Terauchi's apartment in downtown Tokyo on Sunday while he was shopping in Akihabara, a district known for technology and comic book geeks. Saitama police said the girl, whose name was withheld because she is a minor, told investigators that she escaped when her captor forgot to lock the door.
The girl was seen wearing a sweat suit and sandals in the cold weather when she called home from a pay phone at a train station in downtown Tokyo. Her mother reported the call to the police, who raided Terauchi's apartment. Investigators captured Terauchi in the early hours of Monday near a forest west of Tokyo. He was bleeding from the neck from a minor self-inflicted injury as a result of a failed suicide attempt. Police plan to formally arrest him on suspicion of kidnapping. Terauchi attended university during the years he allegedly had the girl in captivity. He graduated this month and even had a job offer. Police quoted the girl as saying that she was confined in Terauchi's apartment near his university in Chiba before moving to Tokyo last month. She was always locked inside and closely watched, but was not tied up or put in chains. He sometimes took her outside but always closely watched her, according to police.
Another example of how it is possible to keep a kidnapping victim "in plain sight" & get away with it for a long period of time - and this is a teenage girl, not a very young child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Heriberto Janosch on March 30, 2016, 07:52:23 PM
I agree that zero feed back is not a productive way to handle the situation and I wonder if that was why Heri posted a similar disillusionment with OG as you have.
After thinking calmly, the disillusionment was not with OG, but with some people who are members of the Official Campaign. No more comments on this subject.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2016, 08:24:21 PM
After thinking calmly, the disillusionment was not with OG, but with some people who are members of the Official Campaign. No more comments on this subject.
Thank you, Heri.
OG are the main players in Madeleine's case and it is a relief that they still enjoy your confidence. I shan't mention it again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 30, 2016, 08:35:38 PM
It may no doubt be easier to kidnap a baby and pass it off as one's own as numerous cases attest, the most recent to hit the headlines being the very sad South African case.
The connection with Madeleine's case is that the suspicion she may have been specifically targeted has been derided, but three families were watched and targeted obviously because they met the criteria.
That Madeleine may have been stalked is also dismissed ... in this case, three families were stalked and the object was to kidnap a child.
The question asked quite a lot is why Madeleine? Why not her sibling? Perhaps a three year old and not a baby fitted the requirement just as Dontae met the requirements of his would be kidnappers.
That is too many "mays" , whether dismissed or considered possible, in other words speculation with no hard facts imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2016, 10:21:19 PM
That is too many "mays" , whether dismissed or considered possible, in other words speculation with no hard facts imo
There is absolutely no conjecture that some serious thought went into planning how to kidnap a child. It didn't matter whose; there were three on the list who must have met the prerequisite.
The whole scenario is absolutely unbelievable to the majority of law abiding people who would never dream of performing such an aberrant act. Which may explain why there are those who find it inconceivable that Madeleine McCann was kidnapped.
A 17 year old and an 18 year old have been convicted of plotting and attempting the abduction of a child. They tried and failed ... is it so out with the bounds of possibility that the kidnap of a child could have been plotted and successfully accomplished in Luz?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 30, 2016, 10:22:11 PM
If I had a stab at writing fiction, I could not better real life.
A couple of days ago I sent a proposal to Team McCann on how to leverage Operation Grange while it is still active. I got an auto reply, saying the McCanns are not doing interviews at the moment (I had not asked for one) and that my communication had been sent to Clarence Mitchell, who deals with all media aspects (I had not requested Mr Mitchell or suggested media).
So I thought about things for a while. I sent another missive to Team McCann deliberately designed to auto bounce to Clarence, asking him to flag to Team McCann that my proposal had nothing to do with Mr Mitchell and nothing to do with the media. Then I sent another email, this one designed to NOT get bounced to Clarence, to clarify with Team McCann.
My two efforts got exactly the same response as the first - an auto-reply that the McCanns were not doing interviews, and that my email had gone to Clarence, who handles the media.
Fun and games indeed.
Then I find out Clarence is doing his headline act in Australia, so I'm guessing the amount of attention given to my emails probably defines a zero.
Tragedy!
why would the mccanns want any involvement with someone who does not believe they are telling the truth...the whole idea that they would engage with someone who thinks they may be lying is simply ridiculous
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 30, 2016, 10:34:01 PM
There is absolutely no conjecture that some serious thought went into planning how to kidnap a child. It didn't matter whose; there were three on the list who must have met the prerequisite.
The whole scenario is absolutely unbelievable to the majority of law abiding people who would never dream of performing such an aberrant act. Which may explain why there are those who find it inconceivable that Madeleine McCann was kidnapped.
A 17 year old and an 18 year old have been convicted of plotting and attempting the abduction of a child. They tried and failed ... is it so out with the bounds of possibility that the kidnap of a child could have been plotted and successfully accomplished in Luz?
if MM was kidnapped there may have been plannng there may have not, since we know zero about either, or if she was, then yes it is all conjecture....it seems there is no hard evidence for her abduction, that is partly why both the pj and sy have failed to date to identify anyone
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 30, 2016, 10:35:56 PM
SIL has stated that she believes that the mccanns may not be telling the truth...on thst basis I cannot see how the mccanns would want to have any involvement with her..is that so hard to understand...please respond to the post and not make pathetic personal attacks
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 30, 2016, 10:40:54 PM
SIL has stated that she believes that the mccanns may not be telling the truth...on thst basis I cannot see how the mccanns would want to have any involvement with her..is that so hard to understand...please respond to the post and not make pathetic personal attacks
And how would they know what she has posted??
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2016, 10:50:54 PM
if MM was kidnapped there may have been plannng there may have not, since we know zero about either, or if she was, then yes it is all conjecture....it seems there is no hard evidence for her abduction, that is partly why both the pj and sy have failed to date to identify anyone
We do not know that the PJ and/or SY have failed to identify anyone. I've not seen that the arguidos have had that status removed ... have you?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 30, 2016, 10:54:58 PM
SIL has a theory about where Smithman went, I think. She hasn't factored in these possibilities;
Smithman is/was some kind of red herring. Smithman's destination is known. The investigation has identified him and moved on. The investigation hasn't identified him but is going in a completely different direction now. The four people working on OG are actually doing other work, not sitting there working on it full-time.
Looking at the official find Madeleine Facebook page it seems to be slowly moving away from Madeleine to a more general page about missing children.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 30, 2016, 10:57:02 PM
SIL has a theory about where Smithman went, I think. She hasn't factored in these possibilities;
Smithman is/was some kind of red herring. Smithman's destination is known. The investigation has identified him and moved on. The investigation hasn't identified him but is going in a completely different direction now. The four people working on OG are actually doing other work, not sitting there working on it full-time.
Looking at the official find Madeleine Facebook page it seems to be slowly moving away from Madeleine to a more general page about missing children.
#lets leave it to the experts rather than some anonymous blogger on the net
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 30, 2016, 11:01:13 PM
I am unaware of any information that the arguidos in Madeleine's case have had that status removed.
If these people remain arguidos your supposition that neither SY or the PJ "have failed to date to identify anyone" is inaccurate.
Being an arguido does not equal to identified, almost identified, will definitely be identified as the culprit..By that logic the mccanns and murat were identified as the culprits
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on March 30, 2016, 11:20:02 PM
I have asked nicely that the snide comments cease. On this forum we don't refer to other members as deluded or worthless.
From now on I will apply sanctions.
Admin
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2016, 11:24:01 PM
Being an arguido does not equal to identified, almost identified, will definitely be identified as the culprit..By that logic the mccanns and murat were identified as the culprits
Thank you Mercury.
Since the Drs McCann and Robert Murat were constituted arguido in 2007 there has been a change in Portuguese law requiring that evidence is now a requirement before a person to be made an arguido. Therefore if either the PJ or SY had enough evidence to convince a magistrate ... and if that status remains in force ... particularly as I understand there are strict time bars ... it would be my opinion that you are mistaken that law enforcement do not have persons in their sights.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 30, 2016, 11:33:51 PM
Since the Drs McCann and Robert Murat were constituted arguido in 2007 there has been a change in Portuguese law requiring that evidence is now a requirement before a person to be made an arguido. Therefore if either the PJ or SY had enough evidence to convince a magistrate ... and if that status remains in force ... particularly as I understand there are strict time bars ... it would be my opinion that you are mistaken that law enforcement do not have persons in their sights.
Are you saying the PJ were free to make anyone an arguido withut any evidence prior to this change in law then?
Lets not forget that arguido is similar to questionng under caution...not necessarily meanng they are thought of as a definite contender as culprit but person of interest...all very complicated..and some people ask for arguido status...as it gives them more rights
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on March 30, 2016, 11:37:00 PM
Witnesses in criminal investigations are legally bound to co-operate with the police and do not have the right to silence and face legal actions if they lie. Because of the legal advantages, some individuals apply for arguido status to be given to themselves, e.g. when it would appear that the police suspect them but are trying to use their witness status to extract as much information as possible.
A person who has arguido status has not been formally accused of a crime, arrested or charged, and not all arguidos are subsequently charged.The police may ask a court to restrict an arguido's movement and oblige them to not leave the country. Arguidos cannot change their place of residence, without permission from a court.There is no time limit on the status.
So the "current" arguidos may have requested the status themselves to gain more rights rather than arguido status was inflicted on them. Does anyone know which it was? or we can debate it til the cows come home.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2016, 11:46:14 PM
Are you saying the PJ were free to make anyone an arguido withut any evidence prior to this change in law then?
Lets not forget that arguido is similar to questionng under caution...not necessarily meanng they are thought of as a definite contender as culprit but person of interest...all very complicated
The law was changed days after the McCanns were made arguidos.
The interpretation of being made an arguido was misconstrued by the British press and was damaging to any who were made arguidos. As confirmed by the payout to Robert Murat subsequently followed by damage awards from the Portuguese press also ...
**snip The first person to become an “arguido”, or official suspect, was Robert Murat, a local property consultant, whose home was searched 12 days after the disappearance. He was formally cleared of suspicion in 2008 and won £600,000 in libel damages from 11 British newspapers. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11078595/Madeleine-McCann-are-we-any-closer-to-knowing-the-truth.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 30, 2016, 11:51:48 PM
The law was changed days after the McCanns were made arguidos.
The interpretation of being made an arguido was misconstrued by the British press and was damaging to any who were made arguidos. As confirmed by the payout to Robert Murat subsequently followed by damage awards from the Portuguese press also ...
**snip The first person to become an “arguido”, or official suspect, was Robert Murat, a local property consultant, whose home was searched 12 days after the disappearance. He was formally cleared of suspicion in 2008 and won £600,000 in libel damages from 11 British newspapers. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11078595/Madeleine-McCann-are-we-any-closer-to-knowing-the-truth.html
a spokesman for the PJ actually said (in English) at a press conference they were made "official suspects"
Maybe the term arguido has a few meanings....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2016, 11:53:39 PM
Witnesses in criminal investigations are legally bound to co-operate with the police and do not have the right to silence and face legal actions if they lie. Because of the legal advantages, some individuals apply for arguido status to be given to themselves, e.g. when it would appear that the police suspect them but are trying to use their witness status to extract as much information as possible.
A person who has arguido status has not been formally accused of a crime, arrested or charged, and not all arguidos are subsequently charged.The police may ask a court to restrict an arguido's movement and oblige them to not leave the country. Arguidos cannot change their place of residence, without permission from a court.There is no time limit on the status.
So the "current" arguidos may have requested the status themselves to gain more rights rather than arguido status was inflicted on them. Does anyone know which it was? or we can debate it til the cows come home.
I think we already have on another thread and if I remember rightly it was around the time someone stemmed the leak in the dam and we have had no more info or misinfo from sources ... so we reached no sensible conclusion there either.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 30, 2016, 11:57:52 PM
a spokesman for the PJ actually said (in English) at a press conference they were made "official suspects"
Maybe the term arguido has a few meanings....
With reference to Alice's post ... It might have been a good idea for the discussion to have taken place earlier in the investigation regarding arguido status without prejudice to enable them to enjoy the rights the status brings with it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 31, 2016, 12:03:15 AM
With reference to Alice's post ... It might have been a good idea for the discussion to have taken place earlier in the investigation regarding arguido status without prejudice to enable them to enjoy the rights the status brings with it.
Sorry, dont follow
what difference would it have made?
the PJ ultmately made a case against them
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2016, 12:18:26 AM
Arguidos have the right to be kept informed of aspects of the case that witnesses don't have ... for example they can also refuse to answer the questions they were obliged to as witnesses before being constituted arguida, Kate McCann exercising that right being one example.
I'm sorry but I don't see why you think the PJ made a case against them. If they had ... they would have been charged ... so there was no case only initial suspicion which the AG disregarded.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 31, 2016, 08:58:11 AM
why would the mccanns want any involvement with someone who does not believe they are telling the truth...the whole idea that they would engage with someone who thinks they may be lying is simply ridiculous
First, I have offered a way in which they can check my CV by my previous record, if they wish to conduct a check.
Second, the case can be progressed irrespective of whether I happen to think the McCanns are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, or not. Such a requirement is nonsense.
Third, you appear not to have grasped the fundamental issue here. If I get through to the McCanns, they can choose to work with me or not. However, they cannot make that decision at the moment, since their system is blocking all contact. I doubt very much that they know I exist.
Try it for yourself. Send them a 'warning' email about me, since you seem to feel strongly about it. You will get in response a reply that the McCanns are not doing interviews at the moment, and your email has been sent to Clarence Mitchell, who deals with the media.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 31, 2016, 09:43:44 AM
First, I have offered a way in which they can check my CV by my previous record, if they wish to conduct a check.
Second, the case can be progressed irrespective of whether I happen to think the McCanns are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, or not. Such a requirement is nonsense.
Third, you appear not to have grasped the fundamental issue here. If I get through to the McCanns, they can choose to work with me or not. However, they cannot make that decision at the moment, since their system is blocking all contact. I doubt very much that they know I exist.
Try it for yourself. Send them a 'warning' email about me, since you seem to feel strongly about it. You will get in response a reply that the McCanns are not doing interviews at the moment, and your email has been sent to Clarence Mitchell, who deals with the media.
I repeat that the mccanns would not want to work with anyone who had not worked out that they played no part in maddie's disappearance. You have said you do not have a mobile phone which is a little strange and a sign of someone not embracing new technology. If you have any useful information which I doubt just send it to Grange. What is your fixation with working with the McCanns and what makes you think you would be any use to them. It would be quite easy to contact Gerry through the hospital...you could write directly to him there...had you not worked that out
Do you think the McCanns should sit down with you and answer your questions...totally bizarre
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 31, 2016, 01:38:39 PM
Email: *.*@*.*.*
it took about 5 secs to find
{SIL Edited to remove personal details.}
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 31, 2016, 02:18:23 PM
It took me about 15 minutes to wade past material related to Madeleine. I did that over 10 days ago. I have been waiting for the Easter break to pass and the McCann routine to return to normal. I anticipate making a further attempt at contact around a week from now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 31, 2016, 03:45:19 PM
It took me about 15 minutes to wade past material related to Madeleine. I did that over 10 days ago. I have been waiting for the Easter break to pass and the McCann routine to return to normal. I anticipate making a further attempt at contact around a week from now.
you now have a direct email address for Gerry. The address is in the public domain so I didn't see a problem posting it but I suppose if some see it they may send him abusive messageses
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on March 31, 2016, 10:06:12 PM
Arguidos have the right to be kept informed of aspects of the case that witnesses don't have ... for example they can also refuse to answer the questions they were obliged to as witnesses before being constituted arguida, Kate McCann exercising that right being one example.
I'm sorry but I don't see why you think the PJ made a case against them. If they had ... they would have been charged ... so there was no case only initial suspicion which the AG disregarded.
I dont know how the system works in Portugal. The final PJ report was sent to the Public Prosecutor..to...decide whether to charge or not? That is different to the UK system.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 01, 2016, 12:25:12 AM
I dont know how the system works in Portugal. The final PJ report was sent to the Public Prosecutor..to...decide whether to charge or not? That is different to the UK system.
Probably a bit like our Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal in Scotland?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on April 01, 2016, 01:12:18 AM
Probably a bit like our Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal in Scotland?
Ive no idea, case remains they were made arguidos (suspects in this instance) because they were suspected...this is what police do, police cannot be criticised for doing so, uk police make people suspects on far less..probably not charged though, that only happens in america
Oh well, quiet evening, sleep well all
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 01, 2016, 09:55:07 AM
Ive no idea, case remains they were made arguidos (suspects in this instance) because they were suspected...this is what police do, police cannot be criticised for doing so, uk police make people suspects on far less..probably not charged though, that only happens in america
Oh well, quiet evening, sleep well all
Beg to disagree with you there, Mercury.
Check out people by all means ... but don't use charging them with an offence as part of trying to build a case against them when there is no evidence which allows you to do so.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2016, 11:43:23 AM
Ive no idea, case remains they were made arguidos (suspects in this instance) because they were suspected...this is what police do, police cannot be criticised for doing so, uk police make people suspects on far less..probably not charged though, that only happens in america
Oh well, quiet evening, sleep well all
nothing wrong with the pj making the MccCanns ...the fault lies with them not understanding the forensic evidence and feeding lies to the press...unforgivable
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on April 01, 2016, 12:25:37 PM
Check out people by all means ... but don't use charging them with an offence as part of trying to build a case against them when there is no evidence which allows you to do so.
They weren't charged, only "cautioned"?
Many people in this country can be cautioned when only peripherally associated with a case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 12:47:25 PM
Many people in this country can be cautioned when only peripherally associated with a case.
You are correct, they were not charged, the arguido status merely being a precursor. However 'cautioned' isn't accurate either a police caution being a formal warning given to an offender which draws a line under an admitted offence.
Perhaps 'accused' of an offence might be more accurate ... however their arguido status made them suspects ... which remains the case as far as the press are concerned when people are made arguidos.
You are correct, they were not charged, the arguido status merely being a precursor. However 'cautioned' isn't accurate either a police caution being a formal warning given to an offender which draws a line under an admitted offence.
Perhaps 'accused' of an offence might be more accurate ... however their arguido status made them suspects ... which remains the case as far as the press are concerned when people are made arguidos.
You are correct, they were not charged, the arguido status merely being a precursor. However 'cautioned' isn't accurate either a police caution being a formal warning given to an offender which draws a line under an admitted offence.
Perhaps 'accused' of an offence might be more accurate ... however their arguido status made them suspects ... which remains the case as far as the press are concerned when people are made arguidos.
Cautioned as in "You have the right...".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 01:30:39 PM
Don't forget the police may question someone under caution. See unsolved Diane Jones murder and her husband being twice "questioned under caution".
A very formal occasion and as Slarti has noted mirroring the real status of an arguido, but not quite as there doesn't appear to be the same stigma attached on completion of an interview concluding without charge.
Interviews under caution (commonly known in HSE as "PACE interviews") http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/investigation/witness-questioning.htm#P26_4152
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 01, 2016, 01:55:06 PM
Not much point if they don't have to answer Question. Where do they go from there?
I was merely pointing out that Dr Jones was twice questioned under caution relating to his wife's murder as can be done by the police. Being questioned under caution and a police caution are two different things. If you believe it is not much use take it up with those who draft the statutes, I have no influence over such things.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 02:03:07 PM
I was merely pointing out that Dr Jones was twice questioned under caution relating to his wife's murder as can be done by the police. Being questioned under caution and a police caution are two different things. If you believe it is not much use take it up with those who draft the statutes, I have no influence over such things.
I have never understood the purpose of Arguido Status. It simply isn't possible to force a Witness to answer questions, and after they become Arquidos they simply don't have to.
I don't have to take it up with anyone. It's plain common sense.
Amaral merely used the Arguido Status to create suspicion in the world of Public Opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 01, 2016, 02:22:35 PM
I have never understood the purpose of Arguido Status. It simply isn't possible to force a Witness to answer questions, and after they become Arquidos they simply don't have to.
I don't have to take it up with anyone. It's plain common sense.
Amaral merely used the Arguido Status to create suspicion in the world of Public Opinion.
In my opinion had he been sure of his position he would have waited the eight days for the law to change, but he knew his 'evidence' for making them arguidos wouldn't have passed the scrutiny that would have required.
He was trying the McCanns in the court of public opinion and if he didn't get a confession out of them in interview their reputation would never have recovered from them being made suspects in their daughter's disappearance. It has worked out that way as far as some people are concerned.
If he had put as much creative energy into pursuing the actual perpetrator as he did into persecuting her parents Madeleine's case would have had a far greater chance of being resolved.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on April 01, 2016, 02:30:45 PM
I have never understood the purpose of Arguido Status. It simply isn't possible to force a Witness to answer questions, and after they become Arquidos they simply don't have to.
I don't have to take it up with anyone. It's plain common sense.
Amaral merely used the Arguido Status to create suspicion in the world of Public Opinion.
From what I understand, the PJ didn't have enough hard evidence and needed to ask questions of the McCanns which were not allowed unless they were Arguidos. An assumption as to other ulterior motives is unfounded speculation and should be avoided.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 03:31:22 PM
From what I understand, the PJ didn't have enough hard evidence and needed to ask questions of the McCanns which were not allowed unless they were Arguidos. An assumption as to other ulterior motives is unfounded speculation and should be avoided.
They didn't have enough hard evidence to make them Arguidos either. In fact they didn't have any evidence at all.
Everyone is using Unfounded Speculation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on April 01, 2016, 03:45:05 PM
From what I understand, the PJ didn't have enough hard evidence and needed to ask questions of the McCanns which were not allowed unless they were Arguidos. An assumption as to other ulterior motives is unfounded speculation and should be avoided.
unfounded speculation as in....is this photograph fake....when did maddie die.....did maddie die in an accident and much much more
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 03:54:58 PM
Have you read them? Seriously? Would you have answered that pile of rubbish if you didn't have to? All they served to do was to prove that The PJ were floundering.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 01, 2016, 03:57:10 PM
Have you read them? Seriously? Would you have answered that pile of rubbish if you didn't have to? All they served to do was to prove that The PJ were floundering.
That is a matter of opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 01, 2016, 04:10:03 PM
Didn't it occur to the PJ to ask those questions the day before when she spent hours being asked questions which as a witness she was obliged to answer.
KATE MARIE HEALY ' STATEMENT (from DVD) September 6/2007 3pm at Portimao
>>> >>> >>>
At this moment, and because it was so late, 11 PM, the interview was interrupted and will be continued tomorrow morning. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 04:29:44 PM
Do you think that hoping something is so actually makes any difference ?
Bit off topic possibly, but treating hope as akin to belief, then yes, it makes a difference. Trouble is, we would be wandering into religion v science, which is a mine field to be avoided on an Internet forum.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 05:05:46 PM
Do you think that hoping something is so actually makes any difference ?
It makes a difference to how I view life, and what I think of myself. But I give no credit to me for this. It is just the way that I am. I don't see cruelty and conspiracy everywhere I turn. And I never assume that someone is guilty without proof. Of which there is none in this case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 05:08:37 PM
Yes. Off Topic. But everyone is being given licence at the moment.
But Back On Topic would be good.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 01, 2016, 05:30:48 PM
It is an evaluation of the time elapsed and the lack of any evidence of what happened to her, and no trace of Madeleine at all.
Likewise I don't believe in miracles.
No, I don't believe in miracles either, Love. But then neither do I believe in death when there is no proof. Madeleine could be alive somewhere, and you cannot gainsay that because you simply do not know.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 01, 2016, 06:05:50 PM
have you ever bought a lottery ticket...millions have...if you ever have bought a lottery ticket then you do believe in miracles
I believe that miracles sometimes do happen ... winning the lottery really would be for me cos I don't play it. But I don't see anything wrong in hoping for the miracle that Madeleine might be somewhere living a good quality of life.
If there is a 50/50 chance ... my choice is a preference to look on the bright side of that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 01, 2016, 06:14:17 PM
I believe that miracles sometimes do happen ... winning the lottery really would be for me cos I don't play it. But I don't see anything wrong in hoping for the miracle that Madeleine might be somewhere living a good quality of life.
If there is a 50/50 chance ... my choice is a preference to look on the bright side of that.
I'm fairly sure stephen has bought a lottery ticket because he accepts those odds are possible...just as maddie may still be alive
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 06:16:51 PM
I believe that miracles sometimes do happen ... winning the lottery really would be for me cos I don't play it. But I don't see anything wrong in hoping for the miracle that Madeleine might be somewhere living a good quality of life.
If there is a 50/50 chance ... my choice is a preference to look on the bright side of that.
But it wouldn't be a miracle, would it. Just something that happened that could always have happened.
Best just to hope, if you ask me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 01, 2016, 06:19:25 PM
How long will you look at that possibility with no results ?
and why should the tax payers of this country continue to fork out money with nothing to show for this ?
Likewise, why didn't the mccanns put their own money in the search run by private investigators ?
Why should other people pay for the mistakes of the mccanns ?
This isn't actually getting us anywhere, is it? The UK Government decided to pursue this, probably because Goncalo Amaral decided to write his highly contentious book which according to him, put paid to a British child, and accused her parents of hiding her dead body. He really shouldn't have done that. On his head be it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 01, 2016, 07:54:46 PM
This isn't actually getting us anywhere, is it? The UK Government decided to pursue this, probably because Goncalo Amaral decided to write his highly contentious book which according to him, put paid to a British child, and accused her parents of hiding her dead body. He really shouldn't have done that. On his head be it.
'On his head be it' ?
That is what should be said about the mccanns in leaving their children as they did.
UNSAFE.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 01, 2016, 08:00:58 PM
So you would spend £12 million plus on a lottery ticket in the chance you might win ? *&*%£
you have things back to front....you would spend 2 pounds on a ticket...it would have to be an extremely remote chance you would win...you accept these sort of things happen....maddie may still be alive
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 02, 2016, 02:28:31 PM
you have things back to front....you would spend 2 pounds on a ticket...it would have to be an extremely remote chance you would win...you accept these sort of things happen....maddie may still be alive
More chance than winning The Lottery.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2016, 02:31:39 PM
you have things back to front....you would spend 2 pounds on a ticket...it would have to be an extremely remote chance you would win...you accept these sort of things happen....maddie may still be alive
Where might she be alive ?
According to kate mccann she is still in Portugal.
Now would that be in Edgar's lawless village 10 miles from PDL ? 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on April 02, 2016, 02:46:45 PM
Pursuit of riches beyond the dreams of avarice versus desire to get at the truth of what happened to a missing little girl, execute justice, increase safety for other children (by taking perpetrator(s) out of circulation) and protect tourism (yes, a perfectly legitimate goal, particularly for a country reliant on tourism as its principal source of income) through investment in investigating a crime.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 02, 2016, 02:50:17 PM
Pursuit of riches beyond the dreams of avarice versus desire to get at the truth of what happened to a missing little girl, execute justice, increase safety for other children (by taking perpetrator(s) out of circulation) and protect tourism (yes, a perfectly legitimate goal, particularly for a country reliant on tourism as its principal source of income) through investment in investigating a crime.
Madeleine has been searched for extensively and there have been several investigations which have neither found how she disappeared from the apartment or what fate ultimately befell her.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 02, 2016, 05:17:22 PM
Why the inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance has proved so frustrating
THE cut in funding to £95,000 for Scotland Yard’s Madeleine McCann investigation reflects growing frustration that finding out what happened to her has become a near-impossible task.
By JAMES MURRAY, INVESTIGATIONS EDITOR PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Apr 3, 2016
Effectively, the investigation is being allowed to wither on the vine because British and Portuguese police officers have been unable to find the vital missing pieces of the jigsaw.
Although the Yard say they have a “much clearer picture” of the events leading up to Madeleine’s abduction, they still do not know whether she is dead or alive and, if she is alive, where she is now.
Following on from the collapse of Operation Midland, the failed investigation of child abuse allegedly by establishment figures, the impending winding up of Operation Grange – the Maddie case – exposes worrying fallibility in what was once seen as the world’s best police force.
When the Home Office announced the review way back in 2011, there was a real sense that at last, after so many false dawns, the true facts about what happened to Madeleine would emerge.
The funding by Home Secretary Theresa May was rightly generous, more than £2million a year, fuelling expectation of a breakthrough.
Seasoned murder detective DCI Andy Redwood pulled in all the known information from the McCanns’s failed private investigations, persuaded distrushut upl Portuguese counterparts to get on board and had some of the best murder detectives in the country on his hand-picked team.
In October 2013 the mood of the team was positive when it was announced the Yard was receiving “increasing cooperation” from Portuguese judicial authorities and, more crucially, the highly sensitive Policia Judiciaria (PJ), the country’s equivalent of our CID.
The Portuguese even appointed six officers based in Faro to carry out inquiries on DCI Redwood’s behalf on the Algarve. Then there were 41 persons of interest, including 15 Britons, plenty to go at and plenty of people keen and able to do the digging.
A BBC TV Crimewatch edition featured a reconstruction and e-fits of men police were keen to speak to, particularly the man seen by an Irish family carrying a child in his arms toward the seafront in the late evening of May 3, 2007, when she vanished nine days before her fourth birthday.
Sensationally, they announced that the famous sighting by Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCanns, near apartment 5A of the Ocean Club, where she was taken, was probably not significant as they believe he was on holiday and was simply returning to his holiday home with his own child.
A reward of £20,000 and TV appeals in Germany and Holland produced a good response from the international public, but not a ground-breaking clue.
In March 2014 Operation Grange announced there were 12 crimes between 2004 and 2010 on the western Algarve in which an intruder had gained entrance to holiday villas and assaulted sleeping girls. The smelly suspect had a pot belly, but despite publicity he was never identified.
In June of that year the tension was ratcheted up with an intensive search of scrubland in and around Praia da Luz, which, alas, produced no evidence relating to Madeleine. The Portuguese police and the Yard were less forthcoming about four potential suspects they had in for questioning in Faro, firing more than 250 questions at each of them.
The Sunday Express understands police from both countries were interested in a sofa got rid of by one of the men, which when retrieved and analysed was found to have fibres similar to fibres found in apartment 5A.
It also emerged that a British woman witness had made a statement saying that she had overheard someone saying near one of the suspects’ homes, “Why did you bring her here? Now we have to dispose of the body.”
It was widely reported that officers were working on a theory that a team of burglars targeted apartment 5A and Madeleine was abducted during a burglary that went wrong. However, officers have to date been unable to substantiate this line of inquiry with a view to bringing any charges.
Despite all the millions spent and the many trips to Portugal by the Yard, no one has been brought to book and it would appear the trail has gone stone cold. Exactly what happened during the past five years may never be fully known because Scotland Yard and the Portuguese shared little important information with the public. However, details of their correspondence and interviews may emerge if the PJ decides to release its new files publicly. There was a storm when the PJ released thousands of documents after shelving their investigation in 2008.
Statements from Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry and their friends, the so-called Tapas Seven with whom they were dining when Madeleine went missing, were made available along with thousands of pages of once-secret information.
Now the impatient Portuguese media will demand that the substance of the new investigation should also be freely available and the judicial authorities are likely to accede to their requests to bring this new material into the public domain.
With all that information available, the McCanns would have a considerable dossier at their disposal to present to any new private investigators they may wish to hire. Sadly, the likelihood of discovering the fate of Madeleine before what would have been her 13th birthday next month looks as distant as ever.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 03, 2016, 04:04:39 AM
Andy Redwood did much more for this investigation than he gets credit for. He organised the really boring ground work.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 03, 2016, 07:26:20 AM
This information has yet to be taken up by any other member of the press.
The 6 months period was announced some months ago, and £90,000 won't go far. That will soon dry up.
No mention of SY interviewing the mccanns and associates, they seemed to rely on previous statements, which to put it mildly were inconsistent.
Quite an interesting phone in on LBC Radio last night, and even the host described what the mccanns did as neglect, though he did say they should not be prosecuted.
A woman from the UK living in Marbella rang in made sure he knew a few of the facts. 8)-)))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 03, 2016, 08:34:23 AM
This information has yet to be taken up by any other member of the press.
The 6 months period was announced some months ago, and £90,000 won't go far. That will soon dry up.
No mention of SY interviewing the mccanns and associates, they seemed to rely on previous statements, which to put it mildly were inconsistent.
Quite an interesting phone in on LBC Radio last night, and even the host described what the mccanns did as neglect, though he did say they should not be prosecuted.
A woman from the UK living in Marbella rang in made sure he knew a few of the facts. 8)-)))
Did the woman from Marbella say anything supportive of the investigation which is trying to locate Madeleine McCann or did she use her few minutes of fame to denigrate her parents?
If the latter ... why would anyone bother.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 03, 2016, 08:41:35 AM
Did the woman from Marbella say anything supportive of the investigation which is trying to locate Madeleine McCann or did she use her few minutes of fame to denigrate her parents?
If the latter ... why would anyone bother.
You can listen to the podcast yourself.
As to the parents, they have needed no help in denigrating themselves.
and the host of the program also mentioned the behaviour of the rest of the group as regards not taking care of their children either, AND BY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 03, 2016, 08:44:07 AM
Some interesting messages in that Express article, if you read it carefully 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 03, 2016, 08:45:32 AM
As to the parents, they have needed no help in denigrating themselves.
and the host of the program also mentioned the behaviour of the rest of the group as regards not taking care of their children either, AND BY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.
Going by that it seems apparent she took time out of her no doubt full life to go on air and say nothing positive about a missing child ... makes me scratch my head in puzzlement, but there you are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 03, 2016, 08:54:20 AM
Going by that it seems apparent she took time out of her no doubt full life to go on air and say nothing positive about a missing child ... makes me scratch my head in puzzlement, but there you are.
It was a phone in, and that's what she did.
She said she knows PDL well and was more than aware of the events of the case.
I recorded part of the broadcast, and I will listen to the rest later, after work.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 03, 2016, 08:58:14 AM
Now Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, who leads the small team, has the unenviable task of trying to make a breakthrough with limited resources and a ticking clock. Scotland Yard has said there are no “immediate” plans to further cut the team working on the case and insisted “there are still focused lines of investigation to be pursued”.
However, it remains to be seen whether those inquiries will produce meaningful results. A Home Office spokeswoman said: “Following a request from the Metropolitan Police Service, we have agreed to provide nearly £95,000 of further funding. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/657734/Scotland-Yard-six-months-Madeleine-McCann-pull-plug-missing-Briton
The request for further funding came from the MPS, it is indicative they still have avenues of investigation to pursue and made a case in support of that.
Six months ago I seem to remember we were told that was it and the case would be closed in April this year. Patently that has not happened and those who might wish to see this case closed ( including the perpetrators) may see the further justification and approval of further funding six months from now. One can only hope so ... in the meantime the investigation continues.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 03, 2016, 09:03:35 AM
The program host made quite a few interesting points.
Including his opinion, that if Madeleine had been from a poor family and of a different ethnic origin, we would probably never have heard of the case, or it would have disappeared into the ether rather quickly.
Merely because 'she ticked the correct boxes' as far as the media are concerned, the story has continued in the press, who have of course obtained revenue from it.
Meanwhile no one else has appeared to pick up the story. Have the Express merely caught up with the 6 months rather late ?
and as was said in the Express, the £95,000 just about covers the coppers salaries.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 03, 2016, 09:26:11 AM
As to the parents, they have needed no help in denigrating themselves.
and the host of the program also mentioned the behaviour of the rest of the group as regards not taking care of their children either, AND BY PEOPLE WHO SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.
Any chance of a link to the podcast?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 03, 2016, 09:30:26 AM
The program host made quite a few interesting points.
Including his opinion, that if Madeleine had been from a poor family and of a different ethnic origin, we would probably never have heard of the case, or it would have disappeared into the ether rather quickly.
Merely because 'she ticked the correct boxes' as far as the media are concerned, the story has continued in the press, who have of course obtained revenue from it.
Meanwhile no one else has appeared to pick up the story. Have the Express merely caught up with the 6 months rather late ?
and as was said in the Express, the £95,000 just about covers the coppers salaries.
1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome 2 There are four officers allegedly, whose combined salary and overhead will be ca £260k. Given the Home Office were throwing about £2MM pa at it that is an indication of how it sits now. Of course I expect as they are spending so little now in comparison, all the leg work is complete and arrests are imminent..... &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 03, 2016, 02:40:23 PM
The program host made quite a few interesting points.
Including his opinion, that if Madeleine had been from a poor family and of a different ethnic origin, we would probably never have heard of the case, or it would have disappeared into the ether rather quickly.
Merely because 'she ticked the correct boxes' as far as the media are concerned, the story has continued in the press, who have of course obtained revenue from it.
Meanwhile no one else has appeared to pick up the story. Have the Express merely caught up with the 6 months rather late ?
and as was said in the Express, the £95,000 just about covers the coppers salaries.
looks like the programme was of little interest ...simply repeating claims made on forums for the last 9 years
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 03, 2016, 02:48:28 PM
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on April 03, 2016 Met ready to throw in the towel as Maddie inquiry “appears to have gone stone cold”
The Algarve - and particularly the seaside village of Praia da Luz - can stop worrying that Scotland Yard might appear back on the ground just as the season gets going to continue the search for Madeleine McCann.
After numerous high-profile visits and almost £12 million spent by the Home Office-led Operation Grange investigation over the last five years, funding has reached tipping point.
Less than £95,000 has been allocated this year - which the Sunday Express explains “will just about cover” wages of the four detectives left on the team for the next six months, and “leaves little left for flights to Portugal or paying for expensive forensic work”.
“Despite all the millions spent and the many trips to Portugal by the Yard, no one has been brought to book and it would appear the trail has gone stone cold”, adds sister paper the Express - stressing that although it was “widely reported” when Grange was in full swing that officers were working on a theory that Madeleine was “abducted during a burglary that went wrong” officers have been “unable to substantiate this line of inquiry with a view to bringing any charges”.
Indeed, police are no nearer knowing what happened to Madeleine almost nine years ago, whether she is alive or dead, and if the former, “where she is now” - though the Express story suggests the Yard has a “much clearer picture” of the events leading up to what detectives still refer to as “Madeleine’s abduction”.
For a holiday resort that lives in dread of the Met returning in force just as the sun comes out, the story could not have been better news.
“The way the village has been ‘hounded’ over the years - labelled as place full of child molesterers, homosexuals, burglars and Eastern European child-snatchers could not have been further from the truth””, said long-term resident Nana Van der Velden who became something of a celebrity in 2014 when she held up a protest banner in front of television cameras with the words: “Dig up the Lies, not Luz”.
But the Express article suggests the news “exposes worrying fallibility in what was once seen as the world’s best police force”.
The “impatient Portuguese media” is almost certain to “demand” that the substance of Grange is now brought into the public domain, adds the paper - and “with all that information available”, Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry will “have a considerable dossier at their disposal to present to any new private investigators they may wish to hire”.
But the Express concludes: “Sadly, the likelihood of discovering the fate of Madeleine before what would have been her 13th birthday next month, looks as distant as ever”.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on April 03, 2016, 11:01:21 PM
simple...if it did those findings would be all over the net by now,,,,but nothing....that's how I know..
it seems my quite innocuous posts are being removed....the forum still has bias
Your logic is flawed somewhere...innocuous posts do get deleted, from "supporters" and "sceptics" alike, send a pm to admin and find out why
8**8:/:
Of course you might "think " a post of yours was innocuous when it was anythng but...just a thought..eta Well there you go, a bunch of posts have just been deleted, roll with it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on April 05, 2016, 10:22:58 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 06, 2016, 12:28:45 AM
Just saw this too.
Speaking to the Guardian, Gerry McCann said, “Feelings are very strong among those of us to whom the Prime Minister publicly and privately made his pledges. If he does not keep his promises to implement the cross-party agreement in full, allow the Leveson Inquiry to be completed and put the needs of the public before press proprietors, we will have been betrayed by him.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2016, 01:00:43 PM
Parents of four-week-old baby boy who died wedged between a bed and a wall after they went on 24-hour Christmas drinking binge and FORGOT where they left him WON'T be prosecuted
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3526140/Parents-baby-died-drunk-WON-T-prosecuted.html#ixzz452ynRDwO Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
This is beyond description.............
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 06, 2016, 01:02:45 PM
Parents of four-week-old baby boy who died wedged between a bed and a wall after they went on 24-hour Christmas drinking binge and FORGOT where they left him WON'T be prosecuted
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3526140/Parents-baby-died-drunk-WON-T-prosecuted.html#ixzz452ynRDwO Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
This is beyond description.............
Not our fault - it was the alcohol that was responsible.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 06, 2016, 02:02:43 PM
Speaking to the Guardian, Gerry McCann said, “Feelings are very strong among those of us to whom the Prime Minister publicly and privately made his pledges. If he does not keep his promises to implement the cross-party agreement in full, allow the Leveson Inquiry to be completed and put the needs of the public before press proprietors, we will have been betrayed by him.”
I would imagine that right now Mr C has other more important fish to fry (or boil). I doubt this morning that Gerry McCann's opinion of him ranks very high on his list of priorities. Not a good day for HackedOff's announcement.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 08, 2016, 11:06:39 AM
Going by that it seems apparent she took time out of her no doubt full life to go on air and say nothing positive about a missing child ... makes me scratch my head in puzzlement, but there you are.
Exactly! And all the way from Marbella!
If I were the police I would wonder at her motives and have a look at her, but then there is no knowing what motivates vindictive people.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2016, 10:49:44 AM
CommsCon 2016: Clarence Mitchell – The Hunt for Madeleine McCann (keynote) In a series of highlights from this year’s CommsCon event, we look at how public relations professional Clarence Mitchell kept the Madeleine McCann story in the news for 8 years in this keynote presentation.
Clarence Mitchell, the man who kept the story of the disappearance of three-year-old British child Madeleine McCann in the media for eight years, opened CommsCon 2016. The former BBC reporter discusses how he worked with the McCann family, international police forces, British government and international media to keep the story of Madeleine’s disappearance in the news – and what he did to fight defamation, handle daily requests from upward of 300 journalists and manage overwhelming expectation from all angles.
Moderator: Miranda Ward, public relations and publishing editor, Mumbrella.
Timeline: 0:00 Introduction by Miranda Ward 4:00 Clarence Mitchell takes the stage 5:15 The case of Madeleine McCann: An exceptional story in a multi-platform environment 10:30 Public perception 11:44 The big picture: international police, international media, official leaks, the parents, friends, the governments 14:00 Information leaks: the deal, the damage 15:00 Blogging – in the wrong hands and with an agenda can do enormous damage 16:00 Question everything, no matter what, as a journalist would 17:00 A ‘pool’ is not just something you swim in: sharing information 19:26 The newsroom and the tidal wave of content 20:55 Lack of relationships between competing media: 200 to 300 media on-site and more in the UK 22:30 Going legal: defeating misinformation, lies and gross defamation 23:20 Keeping the focus on the search not the parents 26:40 Keeping the British press in line 28:00 The media pool: A daily soap opera with few checks or balances 29:00 Journalists pressured to produce stories resulted in false sighting reports 31:00 Calling on the government for help: Operation Grange, the Scotland Yard inquiry 33:00 More than 100 articles deemed “grossly defamatory”; the front page apologies, payouts and trust fund 35:00 Be straight with the media 39:00 Meeting the Pope 40:00 Kate McCann’s role for missing children organisations in Britain 42:00 Media calls for 2017’s 10 year anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance 44:00 The battle for hope: cases of women being held against their will 45:00 Miranda Ward takes stage with Clarence for one-on-one Q&A 49:00 Audience questions 1:02:15 Presentation concludes Sponsored by media intelligence company iSentia, CommsCon helps PR and communications professionals better understand their discipline and the issues the ever-changing industry is facing. http://mumbrella.com.au/commscon-2016-clarence-mitchell-madeleine-mccann-359344?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 13, 2016, 10:57:44 AM
CommsCon 2016: Clarence Mitchell – The Hunt for Madeleine McCann (keynote) In a series of highlights from this year’s CommsCon event, we look at how public relations professional Clarence Mitchell kept the Madeleine McCann story in the news for 8 years in this keynote presentation.
Clarence Mitchell, the man who kept the story of the disappearance of three-year-old British child Madeleine McCann in the media for eight years, opened CommsCon 2016. The former BBC reporter discusses how he worked with the McCann family, international police forces, British government and international media to keep the story of Madeleine’s disappearance in the news – and what he did to fight defamation, handle daily requests from upward of 300 journalists and manage overwhelming expectation from all angles.
Moderator: Miranda Ward, public relations and publishing editor, Mumbrella.
Timeline: 0:00 Introduction by Miranda Ward 4:00 Clarence Mitchell takes the stage 5:15 The case of Madeleine McCann: An exceptional story in a multi-platform environment 10:30 Public perception 11:44 The big picture: international police, international media, official leaks, the parents, friends, the governments 14:00 Information leaks: the deal, the damage 15:00 Blogging – in the wrong hands and with an agenda can do enormous damage 16:00 Question everything, no matter what, as a journalist would 17:00 A ‘pool’ is not just something you swim in: sharing information 19:26 The newsroom and the tidal wave of content 20:55 Lack of relationships between competing media: 200 to 300 media on-site and more in the UK 22:30 Going legal: defeating misinformation, lies and gross defamation 23:20 Keeping the focus on the search not the parents 26:40 Keeping the British press in line 28:00 The media pool: A daily soap opera with few checks or balances 29:00 Journalists pressured to produce stories resulted in false sighting reports 31:00 Calling on the government for help: Operation Grange, the Scotland Yard inquiry 33:00 More than 100 articles deemed “grossly defamatory”; the front page apologies, payouts and trust fund 35:00 Be straight with the media 39:00 Meeting the Pope 40:00 Kate McCann’s role for missing children organisations in Britain 42:00 Media calls for 2017’s 10 year anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance 44:00 The battle for hope: cases of women being held against their will 45:00 Miranda Ward takes stage with Clarence for one-on-one Q&A 49:00 Audience questions 1:02:15 Presentation concludes Sponsored by media intelligence company iSentia, CommsCon helps PR and communications professionals better understand their discipline and the issues the ever-changing industry is facing. http://mumbrella.com.au/commscon-2016-clarence-mitchell-madeleine-mccann-359344?
Ah, so Mitchell doing the 'big I am'.
'Media calls for 2017’s 10 year anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance'
Now that says it all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 13, 2016, 11:04:26 AM
Likewise...
'Keeping the British press in line'.
Not so much recently.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2016, 11:13:54 AM
You've not taken the time to listen to the presentation before commenting; perhaps you should.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 13, 2016, 11:40:14 AM
I have no intention into listening to mitchell's par for the course propaganda.
I know exactly what he is and what he represents.
That's for you to decide, Stephen.
One media professional speaking to other media professionals about how the media operated in relation to Madeleine's case is imo worth a listen.
I'm listening to it as I work around (it isn't visually stimulating and I can get on with things) and it isn't telling me anything I didn't know, that's at 24mins in; but I'm finding the first hand account of someone who was working in Luz at the time informative.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 13, 2016, 11:58:51 AM
One media professional speaking to other media professionals about how the media operated in relation to Madeleine's case is imo worth a listen.
I'm listening to it as I work around (it isn't visually stimulating and I can get on with things) and it isn't telling me anything I didn't know, that's at 24mins in; but I'm finding the first hand account of someone who was working in Luz at the time informative.
Apart from defense of the parents, what else has he achieved ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2016, 12:10:22 PM
Actually one of the points he covered was the strenuous effort required keep the media focus on Madeleine.
and the media have made money from this.
What else has been achieved that is of any value whatsoever ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 13, 2016, 06:20:15 PM
CommsCon 2016
A rather unfortunate choice. Do these people never think? Even the American Navy worked out it was unwise to have a Commander in Chief of the United States Navy [CINCUS .... &%+((£ ]
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on April 13, 2016, 06:40:46 PM
Thanks for that Brietta, quite interesting.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2016, 07:30:34 PM
A rather unfortunate choice. Do these people never think? Even the American Navy worked out it was unwise to have a Commander in Chief of the United States Navy [CINCUS .... &%+((£ ]
It is lost on me, Alice, I don't know what it might be an acronym for. Is that a sign of a well spent youth?
However you are not alone in your observation about CommsCon ...
**snip Is CommsCon the new Vegemite renaming disaster? You tell us http://mumbrella.com.au/is-commscon-the-new-vegemite-renaming-disaster-you-tell-us-134074
Doesn't detract at all from the information being given out by Clarence Mitchell on aspects of the reporting of Madeleine's case which reverberate even today ~ nine years after the event.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on April 13, 2016, 07:55:54 PM
The man is a spin doctor, that is what he is paid for.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 13, 2016, 08:06:33 PM
It is lost on me, Alice, I don't know what it might be an acronym for. Is that a sign of a well spent youth?
However you are not alone in your observation about CommsCon ...
**snip Is CommsCon the new Vegemite renaming disaster? You tell us http://mumbrella.com.au/is-commscon-the-new-vegemite-renaming-disaster-you-tell-us-134074
Doesn't detract at all from the information being given out by Clarence Mitchell on aspects of the reporting of Madeleine's case which reverberate even today ~ nine years after the event.
It's pronunciation would be "sink us". Not good for a navy. I discovered a long time ago that if one always works from first principles one does not have to remember too much thus creating more space in ones head for trivia.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2016, 08:59:53 PM
It's pronunciation would be "sink us". Not good for a navy. I discovered a long time ago that if one always works from first principles one does not have to remember too much thus creating more space in ones head for trivia.
I see it now, thankyou Alice. Agreed it might be considered inappropriate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 22, 2016, 12:02:02 AM
MOD NOTE
Folks, please do not post links to defamatory material, even if what you are doing is pointing out the slop that exists on the Internet. I still need to prune such links.
Thank you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 22, 2016, 12:12:53 AM
Folks, please do not post links to defamatory material, even if what you are doing is pointing out the slop that exists on the Internet. I still need to prune such links.
Thank you.
I think you missed the point Shining, which is why I only posted the link. The author of the defamatory material is standing to be a regional Police Crime Commissioner and views himself as a compassionate upholder of the law. If it can appear in a regional newspaper then surely it can appear here.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 22, 2016, 01:04:55 AM
I think you missed the point Shining, which is why I only posted the link. The author of the defamatory material is standing to be a regional Police Crime Commissioner and views himself as a compassionate upholder of the law. If it can appear in a regional newspaper then surely it can appear here.
Please feel free to go above my head on this one, should you feel aggrieved, or that a different decision should have been taken.
As I understand it, posting a link to defamatory material, considering such material to be defamatory, even if you are only pointing out that the material appears defamatory, is a no go option. It is publicising material one considers to be defamatory.
As I said, if you are not 100% happy with my decision on this, please feel free to kick it upstairs. I will be happy to go with whatever is decided.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 22, 2016, 01:21:53 AM
Please feel free to go above my head on this one, should you feel aggrieved, or that a different decision should have been taken.
As I understand it, posting a link to defamatory material, considering such material to be defamatory, even if you are only pointing out that the material appears defamatory, is a no go option. It is publicising material one considers to be defamatory.
As I said, if you are not 100% happy with my decision on this, please feel free to kick it upstairs. I will be happy to go with whatever is decided.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on April 22, 2016, 06:32:19 AM
Please feel free to go above my head on this one, should you feel aggrieved, or that a different decision should have been taken.
As I understand it, posting a link to defamatory material, considering such material to be defamatory, even if you are only pointing out that the material appears defamatory, is a no go option. It is publicising material one considers to be defamatory.
As I said, if you are not 100% happy with my decision on this, please feel free to kick it upstairs. I will be happy to go with whatever is decided.
SiL, generally links to news articles are allowed as they are expected to have already been through some legal review.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 22, 2016, 07:56:39 AM
I think you missed the point Shining, which is why I only posted the link. The author of the defamatory material is standing to be a regional Police Crime Commissioner and views himself as a compassionate upholder of the law. If it can appear in a regional newspaper then surely it can appear here.
#could you repost the link...this censorship is ridiculous
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 22, 2016, 11:33:37 AM
For once I think we can all agree that this man is unsuitable for the position he hopes to be elected to.
I would recommend those who think abuse happens on this forum to read the article so they can see what abuse actually consists of.
Possibly there are some on this forum who would resort to the same type of abuse, given free rein to do so. The article shows why the content of a person's social media can be crucial in determining their suitability for a job. I don't know how many votes the individual concerned would have acquired without the disclosure of his personal opinions but I sincerely hope the total is zero if he is not removed from candidacy before voting day.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 22, 2016, 01:39:12 PM
Possibly there are some on this forum who would resort to the same type of abuse, given free rein to do so. The article shows why the content of a person's social media can be crucial in determining their suitability for a job. I don't know how many votes the individual concerned would have acquired without the disclosure of his personal opinions but I sincerely hope the total is zero if he is not removed from candidacy before voting day.
The danger is that he could increase his electoral chances, the sad thing is there are some who share all or many of the views expressed in his eclectic mix.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 22, 2016, 01:42:24 PM
The danger is that he could increase his electoral chances, the sad thing is there are some who share all or many of the views expressed in his eclectic mix.
That's the flip side of the coin. We can only hope that the very authority he wishes to employ him now take the appropriate action against him and he is not permitted to stand for the position of PCC.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 22, 2016, 01:48:25 PM
That's the flip side of the coin. We can only hope that the very authority he wishes to employ him now take the appropriate action against him and he is not permitted to stand for the position of PCC.
Seems to have been an excellent example of investigative journalism from the Express & Star from a man who defends his position ... "I am not racist, not a Zionist, not homophobic. I believe in an open society and what I stand for is on my election material and if elected what I want is a fairer and more just society.”
I'm rather of the opinion that what he actually stands for was plastered all over social media and should probably make his position untenable. If he withdraws voluntarily will he get his five grand deposit back?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 22, 2016, 02:21:37 PM
Seems to have been an excellent example of investigative journalism from the Express & Star from a man who defends his position ... "I am not racist, not a Zionist, not homophobic. I believe in an open society and what I stand for is on my election material and if elected what I want is a fairer and more just society.”
I'm rather of the opinion that what he actually stands for was plastered all over social media and should probably make his position untenable. If he withdraws voluntarily will he get his five grand deposit back?
It wouldn't bother me if he did get his deposit back. People can see him for what he really is, rather like people can read Amaral's opinion of the effect his book may have on the twins, aside from his very public opinions of the McCanns. Whether or not people respect others who hold such opinions is between them & their conscience.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on April 22, 2016, 03:35:15 PM
Perhaps the Star and Express has some sort of legal review capability, perhaps not.
But until someone higher up the food chain advises me otherwise, I will leave such posts/links alone in future.
My apologies to the original poster of this news.
Newspapers need legal departments if they are to survive, sort of mod for the news.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 23, 2016, 07:32:34 PM
The Strange Case of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the McCanns
By Craig Murray. Former Ambassador, Human Rights Activist.
I have a confession to make. Back in 2014 I posted that I was going to write something further on the subject of the McCanns. In the end I did not, because I was surprised by the strong emotional reaction I received, from a number of decent people, who were enraged that I might be prepared to write something not to the McCanns’ advantage. But I regret being so pusillanimous, particularly as so much discussion has been suppressed by the extremely aggressive stance taken on threats of libel action on this story.
So in the full knowledge that some decent people will be outraged, here it is.
This week there have been two more developments. The Home Office has announced that it will fund still further the police investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, on which £10 million has already been spent. Plus the appeals court in Lisbon has overturned the libel verdict against the Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, who led the case and formed his own firm convictions at to what happened. The 500,000 euro libel award to the McCanns is now cancelled.
None of these sums of money would matter in the least, and practically nobody would grudge any expense, to have Madeleine McCann alive, safe and happy. There can be nothing worse for a parent than the loss of a child, whatever the circumstances. If the McCanns genuinely do not know what happened, that must be agonising beyond belief. My grandparents had a nineteen year old son, an uncle I never knew, missing in action in World War 2 and the pain never left them, even when his fate was resolved.
And yet, and yet… It is because our children are so precious to us that we treat them as such. I recall an incident on Jamie’s first birthday, which we spent in a hotel in Italy. I was in the room with Jamie. My then wife had gone out to the car. The birthday cake was delivered to reception and had to be paid for. Jamie was fast asleep. I dashed out of the hotel room, down two flights of steps to reception, literally threw the money at them and ran back up the stairs. I was away under two minutes but have never experienced such adrenalin, nor would wish to again. An overwhelming instinct had kicked in telling me I had done wrong in leaving the baby unattended, even so briefly.
I find the McCanns’ behaviour indefensible. There appears to be a disconnect in the public mind in the UK which prevents people from realising just how far the McCanns were from their children. This is a useful graphic just to see the layout, (do not worry about the other info on it).
The McCanns could not actually see their apartment from the tapas bar due to the wall around the pool. To get back there, they had to use the gate and walk around that wall, which made it a 75 yard hike. And the apartment had double doors onto the street on the opposite side of the block from that facing the pool.
I do not see how anybody understanding this geography can consider that it was normal parenting for the McCanns to leave two one year olds and a three year old, alone in the apartment in these circumstances – for hours, and repeatedly several days running. It is something I would absolutely never dream of doing with my own children. If nothing else, had any of the children been crying and in distress – and the chances of that with three tiny children are pretty high – there was no way they could hear them.
The claimed abduction is not the only thing that could have happened. Cholic. Vomiting. Sore nappies. Coughing. Choking. Bad dreams. Overheating. All kinds of thing can distress children. So far as I can judge, it is not that I am weird in my own views, rather it is absolutely accepted in British society that you do not leave 1 year olds without care of an adult. Why are the McCanns an exception?
Which leads me on to the question of why they received such exceptional treatment from British authorities, directed straight from No. 10, to the extent that Blair and Brown eventually gave them a PR representative? I used at one stage to be Resident Clerk in the FCO, a now abolished post effectively of night duty officer. I can tell you from horrible personal experience that the FCO deals with gut-wrenching cases of lost or dead children abroad frequently. I spent one of the most terrible three hours of my life, through to a cold dawn, on the phone with a hysterical bereaved mother desperate to explore any avenue that might give a possibility that the boy who had just drowned in Brazil was misidentified as her son. On average, I am afraid such tragedies get substantially less than 1% of the public resources that were devoted to the McCanns.
I am going to come straight out with this. British diplomatic staff were under direct instruction to support the McCanns far beyond the usual and to put pressure on the Portuguese authorities over the case. I have direct information that more than one of those diplomatic staff found the McCanns less than convincing and their stories inconsistent. Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police.
This again is absolutely not the norm. On a daily basis more British citizens have contact with foreign authorities than the total staff of the FCO. It would be simply impossible to give that level of support to everybody. Plus, against jingoistic presumption, a great many Brits who have contact with foreign police are actually criminals.
The British Ambassador in Portugal, John Buck, had been my direct boss in the FCO. he was Deputy Head of Southern European Department when I was Head of Cyprus Section. He and his staff were concerned by contradictions in the McCann’s story. The Embassy warned, in writing, that being perceived as too close to the McCanns might not prove wise. They demanded the instruction from London be reconfirmed. It was.
I know of people’s misgivings because I was told directly. But material was also leaked to a Belgian newspaper confirming what I have said. It was published by the Express, but like so much other material which is not supportive of the McCanns, it got taken down. Fortunately that last link preserved it. It also shows that the FCO continues to refuse Freedom of Information requests for the material on the interesting grounds that it might damage relations with Portugal.
For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe there was a high level paedophile ring involved. I make no such argument. Nor do I claim to know what happened to Madeleine McCann. But I do believe that the McCanns were less than exemplary parents. I believe that New Labour’s No.10 saw, in typical Blair fashion, a highly photogenic tragedy which there might be popularity in appearing to work on.
And I believe there is a genuine danger that the high profile support from the top of the British government might have put some psychological pressure on the Portuguese investigators and prosecuting officers in their determinations.
The Strange Case of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the McCanns
By Craig Murray. Former Ambassador, Human Rights Activist.
I have a confession to make. Back in 2014 I posted that I was going to write something further on the subject of the McCanns. In the end I did not, because I was surprised by the strong emotional reaction I received, from a number of decent people, who were enraged that I might be prepared to write something not to the McCanns’ advantage. But I regret being so pusillanimous, particularly as so much discussion has been suppressed by the extremely aggressive stance taken on threats of libel action on this story.
So in the full knowledge that some decent people will be outraged, here it is.
This week there have been two more developments. The Home Office has announced that it will fund still further the police investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, on which £10 million has already been spent. Plus the appeals court in Lisbon has overturned the libel verdict against the Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral, who led the case and formed his own firm convictions at to what happened. The 500,000 euro libel award to the McCanns is now cancelled.
None of these sums of money would matter in the least, and practically nobody would grudge any expense, to have Madeleine McCann alive, safe and happy. There can be nothing worse for a parent than the loss of a child, whatever the circumstances. If the McCanns genuinely do not know what happened, that must be agonising beyond belief. My grandparents had a nineteen year old son, an uncle I never knew, missing in action in World War 2 and the pain never left them, even when his fate was resolved.
And yet, and yet… It is because our children are so precious to us that we treat them as such. I recall an incident on Jamie’s first birthday, which we spent in a hotel in Italy. I was in the room with Jamie. My then wife had gone out to the car. The birthday cake was delivered to reception and had to be paid for. Jamie was fast asleep. I dashed out of the hotel room, down two flights of steps to reception, literally threw the money at them and ran back up the stairs. I was away under two minutes but have never experienced such adrenalin, nor would wish to again. An overwhelming instinct had kicked in telling me I had done wrong in leaving the baby unattended, even so briefly.
I find the McCanns’ behaviour indefensible. There appears to be a disconnect in the public mind in the UK which prevents people from realising just how far the McCanns were from their children. (And you are putting out disinformation. Perhaps you have never been there?) This is a useful graphic just to see the layout, (do not worry about the other info on it).
The McCanns could not actually see their apartment from the tapas bar due to the wall around the pool.(This is untrue. The rear of apartment 5A was raised because it was on a hill and there were about 10 steps up. When the greenery had been newly pruned back, as it had when Madeleine vanished, the tapas group could see well over the wall and also see most of the patio area and patio windows. I have eaten at the Tapas restaurant and observed.) To get back there, they had to use the gate and walk around that wall, which made it a 75 yard hike. And the apartment had double doors onto the street (Totally incorrect. There was a SINGLE door, at the front, which opened onto a longish walled walkway. This walkway opened out at the end on to a largish walled car park, which had one exit on to the road. At the rear there were patio doors that opened on to a balcony with views of the tapas Restaurant only 50 metres away. The balcony had a child gate at the top which was closed and then steps and then another closed gate onto the street. Oh, and they did NOT have to walk around the wall that you are referring to. on the opposite side of the block from that facing the pool.
I do not see how anybody understanding this geography {haha !, he clearly doesn't ! He got it all wrong !}can consider that it was normal parenting for the McCanns to leave two one year olds (Got it wrong again mate. The twins were born on Feb 2nd 2005 and were 2 years 3 months old on the day that Madeleine vanished) , and a three year old ((now this is correct, but Madeleine was nearer 4 than 3 cos her 4th birthday was just 9 days later on May 12th) , alone in the apartment in these circumstances – for hours (but with regular checks every 30 minutes or more often. This is better than most hotels did when they were asked to check on children in rooms), and repeatedly several days running. It is something I would absolutely never dream of doing with my own children. If nothing else, had any of the children been crying and in distress – and the chances of that with three tiny children are pretty high – there was no way they could hear them.
The claimed abduction is not the only thing that could have happened. Cholic. Vomiting. Sore nappies. Coughing. Choking. Bad dreams. Overheating. All kinds of thing can distress children. So far as I can judge, it is not that I am weird in my own views, rather it is absolutely accepted in British society that you do not leave 1 year olds without care of an adult.To remind you, you got the ages wrong mate! Why are the McCanns an exception? (and prior to Madeleine being taken, it was common everyday practice at Butlins and many hotels ... so The Mccanns were only doing what thousands had done over the decades)
Which leads me on to the question of why they received such exceptional treatment from British authorities, directed straight from No. 10, to the extent that Blair and Brown eventually gave them a PR representative? I used at one stage to be Resident Clerk in the FCO, a now abolished post effectively of night duty officer. I can tell you from horrible personal experience that the FCO deals with gut-wrenching cases of lost or dead children abroad frequently. I spent one of the most terrible three hours of my life, through to a cold dawn, on the phone with a hysterical bereaved mother desperate to explore any avenue that might give a possibility that the boy who had just drowned in Brazil was misidentified as her son. On average, I am afraid such tragedies get substantially less than 1% of the public resources that were devoted to the McCanns.
I am going to come straight out with this. British diplomatic staff were under direct instruction to support the McCanns far beyond the usual and to put pressure on the Portuguese authorities over the case. I have direct information that more than one of those diplomatic staff found the McCanns less than convincing and their stories inconsistent. Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police. (I cant ask Craig for cites to prove what he is saying altho I would like to. I would like to ask, "Are you certain of all this, Craig?" .... But, in any case, why should anyone be peturbed that Embassy Staff should be present at every meeting? .. if they were? Seems the correct procedure to me)This again is absolutely not the norm. On a daily basis more British citizens have contact with foreign authorities than the total staff of the FCO. It would be simply impossible to give that level of support to everybody. ( Yes, but this was not about a trivial motoring offence or about a camera being stolen, this was about a little girl being potentually stolen ... rather different, dont you think?)
Plus, against jingoistic presumption, a great many Brits who have contact with foreign police are actually criminals. (What's this got to do with The Mccanns? Craig isn't trying to implant seeds of doubt about the honesty of The Mccanns into the readers mind, is he ? ... sort of subliminal stuff/ propaganda.)
The British Ambassador in Portugal, John Buck, had been my direct boss in the FCO. he was Deputy Head of Southern European Department when I was Head of Cyprus Section. He and his staff were concerned by contradictions in the McCann’s story. The Embassy warned, in writing, that being perceived as too close to the McCanns might not prove wise. They demanded the instruction from London be reconfirmed. It was. [Self promotion and Chinese whispers here, it seems .... citation please]
I know of people’s misgivings because I was told directly. But material was also leaked to a Belgian newspaper confirming what I have said. It was published by the Express, but like so much other material which is not supportive of the McCanns, it got taken down. Fortunately that last link preserved it. (After what happened with officialdom, the media and The Mark Dutroux Paedophile Affair in Belgium ... also the cannabis processing from Kif (hemp) to cocaine, crack, Marijuana, hashish, etc. and global distribution at Molenbeek St John in Brussels where Madeleine was sighted walking around the bank and videoed. The cannabis (kif) having been grown in the Rif Mountains, before being sent to Molenbeek St John for processing and distribution.
Zinat is in the drug growing Rif Mountains (it is on a massive global scale) and that is where Madeleine was sighted being carried on a wo/mans back.
And then there was a Madeleine sighting in Leh in the Himalayas. Ley is where most of the Hashish coming into India arrived.
After all this can we trust anything coming from Belgium? ) It also shows that the FCO continues to refuse Freedom of Information requests for the material on the interesting grounds that it might damage relations with Portugal.
For the avoidance of doubt, I do not believe there was a high level paedophile ring involved. (your thoughts, and you got virtually everything else WRONG !) I make no such argument. Nor do I claim to know what happened to Madeleine McCann. But I do believe that the McCanns were less than exemplary parents. I believe that New Labour’s No.10 saw, in typical Blair fashion, a highly photogenic tragedy which there might be popularity in appearing to work on.
And I believe there is a genuine danger that the high profile support from the top of the British government might have put some psychological pressure on the Portuguese investigators and prosecuting officers in their determinations.
What a load of clap trap this guy Craig Murray speaks. He has put out so much biased disinformation in the one piece, it makes one wonder... Are you part of a propaganda machine, Craig ?
ETA Thanks for the corrections on the Kif/ cannabis derivatives. you obviously know a good deal more about them than I know
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 26, 2016, 05:03:36 PM
What a load of clap trap this guy Craig Murray speaks. He has put out so much biased disinformation in the one piece, it makes one wonder... Are you part of a propaganda machine, Craig ?
Disinformation? You said;
"also the cannabis processing from Kif (hemp) to cocaine, crack, hashish, etc. and global distribution at Molenbeek St John in Brussels where Madeleine was sighted walking around the bank and videod. The canabis (kif) having been grown in the Rif Mountains, before being sent to Molenbeek St John for processing and distribution".
Please note;
Cannabis is a plant which has an effect if you smoke it's buds.
Kif is a cannabis product too. When pressed it becomes hash or hashish.
Hemp is a variation of cannabis which doesn't have any effect if you smoke it.
Cocaine is nothing to do with cannabis it comes from the coca plant.
Crack has nothing to do with cannabis, it's cocaine based.
The girl seen in Brussels wasn't Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on April 26, 2016, 09:11:11 PM
"Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police". http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/
I've already pointed out that KM's book is a useful and honest source. What Craig says is confirmed by KM:
"regular meetings set up with the police at the British consulate in Portimão" http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Gl1YDgqho6kC&printsec=frontcover
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 26, 2016, 11:59:22 PM
"also the cannabis processing from Kif (hemp) to cocaine, crack, hashish, etc. and global distribution at Molenbeek St John in Brussels where Madeleine was sighted walking around the bank and videod. The canabis (kif) having been grown in the Rif Mountains, before being sent to Molenbeek St John for processing and distribution".
Please note;
Cannabis is a plant which has an effect if you smoke it's buds.
Kif is a cannabis product too. When pressed it becomes hash or hashish.
Hemp is a variation of cannabis which doesn't have any effect if you smoke it.
Cocaine is nothing to do with cannabis it comes from the coca plant.
Crack has nothing to do with cannabis, it's cocaine based.
The girl seen in Brussels wasn't Madeleine McCann.
Thank you Gumit. You obviously know a good deal more about the derivatives of Cannabis/ kif than I do. Have correcyed my post.
However, I disagree about the little girl being walked around the bank in Molenbeek St John. I believe that she was Madeleine as do many people.
Now, I am doing this from memory, but I think that the Mccanns thought that she was likely to be Madeleine too. Also the little girl being carried on the wo/mans back in Zinat in the Rif mountains was thought to be Madeleine by The Mccanns.
I believe both were Madeleine ... and having studied, practiced and taught figure drawing and portraiture for over 60 years, I have rather a good eye.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 27, 2016, 12:10:45 AM
"Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police". http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/the-strange-case-of-gordon-brown-and-the-mccanns/
I've already pointed out that KM's book is a useful and honest source. What Craig says is confirmed by KM:
"regular meetings set up with the police at the British consulate in Portimão" http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Gl1YDgqho6kC&printsec=frontcover
Umm, with all due respect, Pegasus
"regular meetings set up with the police at the British consulate in Portimão" does not confirm that "Embassy staff were perturbed to be ordered that British authorities were to be present at every contact between the McCanns and Portuguese police".
Kate says nothing about the staff being ordered to do anything and neither does she confirm that the Embassy staff were peturbed in any way.
In such a case as this, with added language difficulties, it would be astonishing if the Embassy staff had not been present at every contact between the Mccanns and Portuguese police. Additionally they would have been aware of the torture and injustices in the Michael Cook and the Cipriano cases. They would want to ensure that the same did not happen to Kate and Gerry
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Matthew Wyse on April 27, 2016, 01:12:14 AM
Thank you Gumit. You obviously know a good deal more about the derivatives of Cannabis/ kif than I do. Have correcyed my post.
However, I disagree about the little girl being walked around the bank in Molenbeek St John. I believe that she was Madeleine as do many people.
Now, I am doing this from memory, but I think that the Mccanns thought that she was likely to be Madeleine too. Also the little girl being carried on the wo/mans back in Zinat in the Rif mountains was thought to be Madeleine by The Mccanns.
I believe both were Madeleine ... and having studied, practiced and taught figure drawing and portraiture for over 60 years, I have rather a good eye.
you are welcome to post opinion but in my opinion you are totally mistaken.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 27, 2016, 01:19:11 AM
They have been discounted Sadie already by the Police, some time ago, and you know that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 27, 2016, 11:41:15 AM
A terrible neighborhood it seems. Read all about it;
Molenbeek-Saint-Jean is not just a terrible neighborhood — it is the root of all evil. It is basically the Mordor of Europe’s Middle-Earth. This is why you should never, ever go there; in fact, most people who go to Molenbeek either disappear or become insane because they can’t handle the pleasantly leafy streets, the beautiful art-nouveau architecture, or the buzzing multicultural vibe. Don’t say we didn’t warn you. http://theculturetrip.com/europe/belgium/articles/10-reasons-you-should-never-visit-molenbeek-saint-jean/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 27, 2016, 11:53:10 AM
A terrible neighborhood it seems. Read all about it;
Molenbeek-Saint-Jean is not just a terrible neighborhood — it is the root of all evil. It is basically the Mordor of Europe’s Middle-Earth. This is why you should never, ever go there; in fact, most people who go to Molenbeek either disappear or become insane because they can’t handle the pleasantly leafy streets, the beautiful art-nouveau architecture, or the buzzing multicultural vibe. Don’t say we didn’t warn you. http://theculturetrip.com/europe/belgium/articles/10-reasons-you-should-never-visit-molenbeek-saint-jean/
Brussels attacks: Life in Molenbeek shows the road taken from drug-dealing to armed robbery and terrorism
The Brussels’ suburb has come to be regarded as the germination centre for Islamist terrorism in Europe
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 27, 2016, 12:05:27 PM
Nothing has been reported about drug processing. Drug dealing happens all over the place. The media suggested the area was full of militant muslims. Not everyone agrees;
Vincent Kompany defends Molenbeek: 'It's not what the media makes it out to be' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/vincent-kompany-defends-molenbeek-its-not-what-the-media-makes-it-out-to-be-a6790736.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 27, 2016, 12:57:15 PM
Nothing has been reported about drug processing. Drug dealing happens all over the place. The media suggested the area was full of militant muslims. Not everyone agrees;
Vincent Kompany defends Molenbeek: 'It's not what the media makes it out to be' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/vincent-kompany-defends-molenbeek-its-not-what-the-media-makes-it-out-to-be-a6790736.html
Jamie Schram and Bob Fredericks in the New York Times describe Molenbeek as "a Brussels slum that has long been a hotbed for radical Islam, drugs and lawlessness."
These problems are not exclusive to Molenbeek but it was in that area that a little blonde girl was captured on video accompanied by a woman in Muslim attire and there is no record of precisely how she was ruled out of contention for being Madeleine McCann.
Therefore in my opinion Sadie's argument bears a little more respect and consideration to be given to it.
Jamie Schram and Bob Fredericks
So-called “no go” zones, he added, are not formal designations by law enforcement, but an informal understanding that they are areas that are crime-ridden, run by drug dealers and gangs not safe for non-Muslims — even police and firefighters.
Jamie Schram and Bob Fredericks in the New York Times describe Molenbeek as "a Brussels slum that has long been a hotbed for radical Islam, drugs and lawlessness."
These problems are not exclusive to Molenbeek but it was in that area that a little blonde girl was captured on video accompanied by a woman in Muslim attire and there is no record of precisely how she was ruled out of contention for being Madeleine McCann.
Therefore in my opinion Sadie's argument bears a little more respect and consideration to be given to it.
Jamie Schram and Bob Fredericks
So-called “no go” zones, he added, are not formal designations by law enforcement, but an informal understanding that they are areas that are crime-ridden, run by drug dealers and gangs not safe for non-Muslims — even police and firefighters.
Jamie Schram and Bob Fredericks in the New York Times describe Molenbeek as "a Brussels slum that has long been a hotbed for radical Islam, drugs and lawlessness."
These problems are not exclusive to Molenbeek but it was in that area that a little blonde girl was captured on video accompanied by a woman in Muslim attire and there is no record of precisely how she was ruled out of contention for being Madeleine McCann.
Therefore in my opinion Sadie's argument bears a little more respect and consideration to be given to it.
Jamie Schram and Bob Fredericks
So-called “no go” zones, he added, are not formal designations by law enforcement, but an informal understanding that they are areas that are crime-ridden, run by drug dealers and gangs not safe for non-Muslims — even police and firefighters.
A possible sighting of Madeleine McCann in Belgium has been ruled out, the Belgian authorities said today. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/madeleine-mccann-belgian-sighting-ruled-3478589
I can find nothing to suggest that this district of Brussels is a drug processing area. People should check their facts if they want their arguments to be respected.
As to the article you posted, the Americans are quite good at casting aspersions on European cities;
The Fox News commentator who said the British city of Birmingham was a no-go zone for non-Muslims is a “complete idiot”, the prime minister, David Cameron, has said. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/12/fox-news-expert-ridiculed-over-birmingham-is-totally-muslim-city-claims
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 27, 2016, 04:04:33 PM
I have just watched an extract from Mitchell's interview in Australia.
He was hyperactive and displayed nervousness.
Interesting ADMISSIONS about those working on the mccanns , and therefore his behalf, on the net.
2 active participants and some women in America........
Some points more than suggested he was being economic with the truth.
It was hardly a high profile event either.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 27, 2016, 04:11:55 PM
I don't see where Muslims and terrorist come into this debate. Read "Blood Year" by David Kilcullen if you are looking for informed opinion on both.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 27, 2016, 04:25:49 PM
Where do you think they caught Abdeslam.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 27, 2016, 04:33:39 PM
If that was aimed at me I think you will recall I said something about informed debate on the topics of Muslims and terrorism. I doubt you are as knowledgeable as David Kilcullen ?{)(**
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 27, 2016, 04:50:51 PM
If that was aimed at me I think you will recall I said something about informed debate on the topics of MIslima and terrorism. I doubt you are as knowledgeable as David Kilcullen ?{)(**
No, it wasn't aimed at you. But Molenbeek is notorious on this side of The Channel.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 27, 2016, 04:58:46 PM
A possible sighting of Madeleine McCann in Belgium has been ruled out, the Belgian authorities said today. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/madeleine-mccann-belgian-sighting-ruled-3478589
I can find nothing to suggest that this district of Brussels is a drug processing area. People should check their facts if they want their arguments to be respected.
As to the article you posted, the Americans are quite good at casting aspersions on European cities;
The Fox News commentator who said the British city of Birmingham was a no-go zone for non-Muslims is a “complete idiot”, the prime minister, David Cameron, has said. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/12/fox-news-expert-ridiculed-over-birmingham-is-totally-muslim-city-claims
The sighting was ruled out. The child's father explained this English speaking child was his daughter.
Where does it say that anyone in authority actually saw this child or investigated beyond her father's claim?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 27, 2016, 05:16:37 PM
Are you suggesting the Belgian police are incompetent?
Well, they can't be all that hot if Abdeslam went undetected for at least a couple of months. And then there was that awful paedophile who escaped justice for years while starving his victims to death.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 27, 2016, 05:29:13 PM
Well, they can't be all that hot if Abdeslam went undetected for at least a couple of months. And then there was that awful paedophile who escaped justice for years while starving his victims to death.
Who explained away the cries of children locked in his cellar as the sound of children playing outside to the police who were questioning him. I would say the police did not cover themselves in glory in the Dutroux case having been taken in by their murderer's claim ... and if they didn't bother to check on the identity of a child beyond the father's claim of paternity they would imo have been remiss yet again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 27, 2016, 05:42:39 PM
They might have the fusing/timing wrong and score an own goal.
But it's one of their bolt holes. Even The Police knew that. So God knows who could have been hidden there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 27, 2016, 06:11:09 PM
Sadie is 100% correct in her assessment.
I suggest that anyone going through a process to identify a child some 'Mr Big' didn't want to be identified would perhaps have been putting themselves at grave risk. No place more so than in Molenbeek where the CCTV footage was recorded. But it did happen elsewhere.
The child in the CCTV images was identified by her father. Who was allowed to see her or speak with her and in what way was the father allowed to verify his claim???
**snip
"On the witness stand, Jean-Marc Connerotte, the original judge of the case, broke down in tears when he described "the bullet-proof vehicles and armed guards needed to protect him against the shadowy figures determined to stop the full truth coming out.
Never before in Belgium has an investigating judge at the service of the king been subjected to such pressure.
We were told by police that [murder] contracts had been taken out against the magistrates."
Connerotte testified that the investigation was seriously hampered by protection of suspects by people in the government. "Rarely has so much energy been spent opposing an inquiry," he said. He believed that the Mafia had taken control of the case.[6]
I suggest that anyone going through a process to identify a child some 'Mr Big' didn't want to be identified would perhaps have been putting themselves at grave risk. No place more so than in Molenbeek where the CCTV footage was recorded. But it did happen elsewhere.
The child in the CCTV images was identified by her father. Who was allowed to see her or speak with her and in what way was the father allowed to verify his claim???
**snip
"On the witness stand, Jean-Marc Connerotte, the original judge of the case, broke down in tears when he described "the bullet-proof vehicles and armed guards needed to protect him against the shadowy figures determined to stop the full truth coming out.
Never before in Belgium has an investigating judge at the service of the king been subjected to such pressure.
We were told by police that [murder] contracts had been taken out against the magistrates."
Connerotte testified that the investigation was seriously hampered by protection of suspects by people in the government. "Rarely has so much energy been spent opposing an inquiry," he said. He believed that the Mafia had taken control of the case.[6]
I would like to know more about this story, which seems to have originated from The Sun. Which police force was it reported to? Who informed the McCann's detectives and why did they go off to Belgium to 'liaise' with the police there? How did The Sun get hold of CCTV images from the area? http://www.mccannfiles.com/id152.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 27, 2016, 09:58:49 PM
I would like to know more about this story, which seems to have originated from The Sun. Which police force was it reported to? Who informed the McCann's detectives and why did they go off to Belgium to 'liaise' with the police there? How did The Sun get hold of CCTV images from the area? http://www.mccannfiles.com/id152.html
The link you posted was from the Liverpool Echo ... and you and me both would like to know more about this story.
In my case I would be content with information about the process used to eliminate the daughter of the man who presented himself to the authorities from the inquiry .
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on April 28, 2016, 01:19:40 AM
I would like to know more about this story, which seems to have originated from The Sun. Which police force was it reported to? Who informed the McCann's detectives and why did they go off to Belgium to 'liaise' with the police there? How did The Sun get hold of CCTV images from the area? http://www.mccannfiles.com/id152.html
The cctv camera episode showing ' Madeleine' walking around the bank in Molenbeek St John, Central Brussels, with her Moroccan nanny, was IIRC on TV.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Gunit, the first time I heard about the Marc Dutroux case in Belgium, was from a Portuguese poster on a forum that I was on, way back probably in 2008.
The whole case made my blood run cold; it was so awful.
As Brietta says, the police had info and went to check Marc Dutroux address. According to one report, a Senior Officer from one polce branch was accompanied by a jumior officer from another branch and when they went down into the basement they heard childrens voices and cries. The jumior officer wanted to search more thoroughly, but he was totally over-ruled by the senior officer who said the girls voices were coming from the street outside. The voices were actually coming from a divided off bit adjacent to where they were standing, but no search was allowed.
The junior officer was deeply upset, but feared to undermine the senior officer.
Several times IIRC the police had been close to finding the girls but each time there had been interference from above.
Two girls starved to death in Dutroux dungeons, two others were eventually rescued after appalling treatment and another two girls also died..
Dutroux told an associate how to capture girls, from the street and throw them in a van. The associate went to the police and reported this.
Dutroux already had a record for assaulting and raping 5 girls.
Dutroux own mother reported him for keeping underage girls in the house.
.... but either the authorities ignored the warnings or officialdom got in the way
His wife also knew what was going on and helped him .
When finally Dutroux was arrested and two girls freed and the extent of corruption in high ranking officers, police Justice and government etc revealed. .... the people of Belgium rose up in anger and protest and marched the streets in their anger. I think that a very senior member of the royal family was involved in paedophilia too
As Brietta has already stated, the poor judge in the case was threatened and ended up a nervous wreck
"On the witness stand, Jean-Marc Connerotte, the original judge of the case, broke down in tears when he described "the bullet-proof vehicles and armed guards needed to protect him against the shadowy figures determined to stop the full truth coming out.
Never before in Belgium has an investigating judge at the service of the king been subjected to such pressure.
We were told by police that [murder] contracts had been taken out against the magistrates."
Connerotte testified that the investigation was seriously hampered by protection of suspects by people in the government. "Rarely has so much energy been spent opposing an inquiry," he said. He believed that the Mafia had taken control of the case.[6]
I suggest that anyone going through a process to identify a child some 'Mr Big' didn't want to be identified would perhaps have been putting themselves at grave risk. No place more so than in Molenbeek where the CCTV footage was recorded. But it did happen elsewhere.
The child in the CCTV images was identified by her father. Who was allowed to see her or speak with her and in what way was the father allowed to verify his claim???
Any guy who went against the drug barons/traffickers or child procurers/ traffickers was risking his livelyhood and even his life. Best policy was to go along with them imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 28, 2016, 07:53:52 AM
With the name of The Sun on that clip. If the Belgian police seized the tapes how did The Sun get hold of them? Mitchell's quotes make no sense either. A very strange story imo.
Cops interviewed the guard yesterday and are taking the sighting seriously. Commissioner Johan Berckmans said: “We’ve taken tapes from the bank for analysis.”
As Belgian police urgently studied recent CCTV images from a bank, McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell said their own investigators would “move promptly”.
Mr Mitchell said of the new CCTV shots: “This is exactly the kind of up-to-date information we are looking for. We will be liaising to get access to the footage.”
McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell said last night: “We’re extremely grateful to The Sun for providing the footage. It is potentially very significant. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/madeleine/1537301/Madeleine-McCann-seen-5-days-ago.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 28, 2016, 11:32:54 AM
Maddie McCann 'snatched in botched break-in' Cops sure they know what happened to girl
BRIT police are convinced they know what happened to Madeleine McCann – and believe they spoke to her attacker.
By Jerry Lawton / Published 28th April 2016
Detectives say they can still crack the case despite Met Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Hogan saying they are only chasing one final lead before the investigation is shelved.
That theory is that the tot was snatched after disturbing burglars who had been targeting the Portuguese holiday block where she was staying.
Police believe three suspects they have been pursuing hold the key to the nine-year mystery.
The trio have already been declared arguidos – or suspects – and were interviewed at least twice.
They are linked by a series of phone calls they made to each other near the McCanns’ apartment around the time she vanished.
A source said: “This remaining lead is thought to be key.”
The suspects are Jose Carlos da Silva, 30, who used to drive guests to their apartments at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz from where Madeleine vanished, drifter Ricardo Rodrigues, 24, and drug addict Paulo Ribeiro, 53.
Da Silva made no mention of the calls or texts when he was questioned by police in 2007.
Rodrigues is also suspected of collecting cash for a non-existent orphanage just 100 metres from the McCanns’ apartment at 4pm on the day Madeleine, then three, disappeared.
Criminal psychologist Heriberto Janosch González says he tipped off police about da Silva and Rodrigues in 2013.
He said: “I view the events not as a kidnapping but as a theft that escalated.”
Maddie McCann 'snatched in botched break-in' Cops sure they know what happened to girl
BRIT police are convinced they know what happened to Madeleine McCann – and believe they spoke to her attacker.
By Jerry Lawton / Published 28th April 2016
Detectives say they can still crack the case despite Met Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Hogan saying they are only chasing one final lead before the investigation is shelved.
That theory is that the tot was snatched after disturbing burglars who had been targeting the Portuguese holiday block where she was staying.
Police believe three suspects they have been pursuing hold the key to the nine-year mystery.
The trio have already been declared arguidos – or suspects – and were interviewed at least twice.
They are linked by a series of phone calls they made to each other near the McCanns’ apartment around the time she vanished.
A source said: “This remaining lead is thought to be key.”
The suspects are Jose Carlos da Silva, 30, who used to drive guests to their apartments at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz from where Madeleine vanished, drifter Ricardo Rodrigues, 24, and drug addict Paulo Ribeiro, 53.
Da Silva made no mention of the calls or texts when he was questioned by police in 2007.
Rodrigues is also suspected of collecting cash for a non-existent orphanage just 100 metres from the McCanns’ apartment at 4pm on the day Madeleine, then three, disappeared.
Criminal psychologist Heriberto Janosch González says he tipped off police about da Silva and Rodrigues in 2013.
He said: “I view the events not as a kidnapping but as a theft that escalated.”
Maddie McCann 'snatched in botched break-in' Cops sure they know what happened to girl
BRIT police are convinced they know what happened to Madeleine McCann – and believe they spoke to her attacker.
By Jerry Lawton / Published 28th April 2016
Detectives say they can still crack the case despite Met Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Hogan saying they are only chasing one final lead before the investigation is shelved.
That theory is that the tot was snatched after disturbing burglars who had been targeting the Portuguese holiday block where she was staying.
Police believe three suspects they have been pursuing hold the key to the nine-year mystery.
The trio have already been declared arguidos – or suspects – and were interviewed at least twice.
They are linked by a series of phone calls they made to each other near the McCanns’ apartment around the time she vanished.
A source said: “This remaining lead is thought to be key.”
The suspects are Jose Carlos da Silva, 30, who used to drive guests to their apartments at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz from where Madeleine vanished, drifter Ricardo Rodrigues, 24, and drug addict Paulo Ribeiro, 53.
Da Silva made no mention of the calls or texts when he was questioned by police in 2007.
Rodrigues is also suspected of collecting cash for a non-existent orphanage just 100 metres from the McCanns’ apartment at 4pm on the day Madeleine, then three, disappeared.
Criminal psychologist Heriberto Janosch González says he tipped off police about da Silva and Rodrigues in 2013.
He said: “I view the events not as a kidnapping but as a theft that escalated.”
Seems that SY are working to try and get enough evidence to convict.
If the man is my man, then he is very elite and has an enormous backing organisation that stand to lose a massive income if their nefarious goings-on are revealed + a lot of very important people who are members of this organisation are going to lose their hitherto good reputations .... even if they are not directly involved in trafficking in any practical way.
If I am correct, then the Organisation has been benefitting from trafficking drugs, slaves and maybe weapons over the centuries. . It is a global organisation and it seems the trafficking covers much of the World. Thousands of people will be employed in it. Such organisations do not appear overnight, they take centuries to perfect.
And they are like the legendary Phoenix (as mentioned in JK Rowlings Harry Potter books). If brought down, they will rise again from the ashes, as they have done from time immemorial. They will just repackage themselves with another benevolent front, and start all over again
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 28, 2016, 01:29:26 PM
Signs that the Amaral investigation failed to check out the information they had to hand in 2007.
There was no requirement to check beyond the phone traffic from those closest to Madeleine and those who may legitimately have come into contact with her ... employees at the complex.
If they had carried out this diligence into an employee who failed to mention calls he made when interviewed at the time it is entirely possible that what happened to Madeleine could have been resolved nine years ago.
"They are linked by a series of phone calls they made to each other near the McCanns’ apartment around the time she vanished."
"Da Silva made no mention of the calls or texts when he was questioned by police in 2007." http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/511311/Three-key-burglar-suspects-questioned-Madeleine-McCann-police-theory-attack-lead-Portugal
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 28, 2016, 02:11:17 PM
Signs that the Amaral investigation failed to check out the information they had to hand in 2007.
There was no requirement to check beyond the phone traffic from those closest to Madeleine and those who may legitimately have come into contact with her ... employees at the complex.
If they had carried out this diligence into an employee who failed to mention calls he made when interviewed at the time it is entirely possible that what happened to Madeleine could have been resolved nine years ago.
"They are linked by a series of phone calls they made to each other near the McCanns’ apartment around the time she vanished."
"Da Silva made no mention of the calls or texts when he was questioned by police in 2007." http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/511311/Three-key-burglar-suspects-questioned-Madeleine-McCann-police-theory-attack-lead-Portugal
Why would he?
Option 1 He is guilty (of whatever). Why would offer up info about dodgy phone calls?
Option 2 He is innocent. Why would he mention innocent phone calls?
And how would the PJ know about them at the date of his interview, to extract information from him? The staff interviews were done before anyone got round to extracting phone data from the phone companies.
OG knew about the phone calls when the trio were made arguidos. They may have known more, but I suspect those phone calls were at least part of the reason the men were made arguidos, and that the 3 of them were asked about the calls. Obviously, I have no idea what actual intelligence came out of those interviews.
Equally, I believe the 3 are still arguidos, though that is an assumption based on knowing that Sergey Malinka has reportedly been told he is no longer of interest, while I have not seen such a report for these 3.
The number of phone calls in/out of Luz on 2 May to 4 May was 74,104 and from memory there were checks by the PJ on some traceable ones.
Given that the calls in question were traceable, it is possible that the PJ has already checked on these. I can't remember the parameters for that diligence, and I have yet to see anything beyond newspaper reports on the topic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on April 28, 2016, 07:43:37 PM
Signs that the Amaral investigation failed to check out the information they had to hand in 2007.
There was no requirement to check beyond the phone traffic from those closest to Madeleine and those who may legitimately have come into contact with her ... employees at the complex.
If they had carried out this diligence into an employee who failed to mention calls he made when interviewed at the time it is entirely possible that what happened to Madeleine could have been resolved nine years ago.
"They are linked by a series of phone calls they made to each other near the McCanns’ apartment around the time she vanished."
"Da Silva made no mention of the calls or texts when he was questioned by police in 2007." http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/511311/Three-key-burglar-suspects-questioned-Madeleine-McCann-police-theory-attack-lead-Portugal
I wonder what near the apartment means?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 28, 2016, 09:21:49 PM
1 lived in LuzTur, within eyesight of 5A. The other 2 lived somewhere in Luz, don't know where, but everywhere in Luz is close to 5A, so near means little.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on April 28, 2016, 11:02:52 PM
New Maddie book claims to have nugget police have been waiting for
(http://i.imgur.com/Cc5v4Ht.jpg?1)
By Natasha Donn 28 April 2016
A new book on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been published in English this week, claiming to have discovered the missing nugget that has been baffling police for the last nine years.
The Truth is Out There - a title taken from the cult TV series X-files - has been written by Dutch investigative journalist Peter Scharrenberg who says he found two witnesses who “told quite a different story” to the accepted version of events on the night of May 3, 2007.
Promising to lift the lid on what he calls the “false timeline” “an impossible burglary” and “a mysterious pool picture”, Scharrenberg’s book has been available in Dutch for €15.95 for over a year, but this is the first time it can be read in English.
Coincidentally, it has been published a week after Lisbon’s Court of Appeal freed-up a book written by the original investigation’s coordinator, PJ detective Gonçalo Amaral, after deciding that nothing Amaral had written in it warranted censure (click here).
Amaral was also absolved from paying the 500 thousand euros in damages that a lower court fixed last April over a civil action taken out by Kate and Gerry McCann (click here).
This new book, costing 12.95 pounds, “will be in bookstores, online and very soon as an ePublication” says Scharrenberg.
For further details, see: http://www.thetruthisoutthereblog.com/
Earlier this week British police chief Sir Bernard Hogan Howe revealed that “only one line of inquiry” was being followed by the vastly reduced Scotland Yard team that has already spent over €15 million investigating Madeleine’s disappearance. But he did add the proviso of “unless something else comes up”.
It remains to be seen whether Scharrenberg’s book constitutes that ‘something else’.
For now, British media is reinforcing the ‘botched burglary’ theory, carried out says the Mirror today by three ‘key suspects’ all of whom have been interviewed at least twice before and freed without charge.
Calling the theory “new” the Mirror claims it could give police “renewed hope they can solve the mystery”.
But Scharreberg is hoping they consider his material. " I strongly believe that the 'revelations' in the book should cause a change in the direction of the investigation, in a final attempt to solve the mystery", he told us. "If this causes the investigation to last for a few months longer, then so be it. I don't expect this file will be ever opened again when it's finally closed. So this is the (only) time to do it."
1 lived in LuzTur, within eyesight of 5A. The other 2 lived somewhere in Luz, don't know where, but everywhere in Luz is close to 5A, so near means little.
Thanks, I thought as much and given the lack of accuracy of mobile phone locations appears to mean that anyone in Luz is suspicious.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 29, 2016, 01:32:25 PM
New Maddie book claims to have nugget police have been waiting for
(http://i.imgur.com/Cc5v4Ht.jpg?1)
By Natasha Donn 28 April 2016
A new book on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been published in English this week, claiming to have discovered the missing nugget that has been baffling police for the last nine years.
The Truth is Out There - a title taken from the cult TV series X-files - has been written by Dutch investigative journalist Peter Scharrenberg who says he found two witnesses who “told quite a different story” to the accepted version of events on the night of May 3, 2007.
Promising to lift the lid on what he calls the “false timeline” “an impossible burglary” and “a mysterious pool picture”, Scharrenberg’s book has been available in Dutch for €15.95 for over a year, but this is the first time it can be read in English.
Coincidentally, it has been published a week after Lisbon’s Court of Appeal freed-up a book written by the original investigation’s coordinator, PJ detective Gonçalo Amaral, after deciding that nothing Amaral had written in it warranted censure (click here).
Amaral was also absolved from paying the 500 thousand euros in damages that a lower court fixed last April over a civil action taken out by Kate and Gerry McCann (click here).
This new book, costing 12.95 pounds, “will be in bookstores, online and very soon as an ePublication” says Scharrenberg.
For further details, see: http://www.thetruthisoutthereblog.com/
Earlier this week British police chief Sir Bernard Hogan Howe revealed that “only one line of inquiry” was being followed by the vastly reduced Scotland Yard team that has already spent over €15 million investigating Madeleine’s disappearance. But he did add the proviso of “unless something else comes up”.
It remains to be seen whether Scharrenberg’s book constitutes that ‘something else’.
For now, British media is reinforcing the ‘botched burglary’ theory, carried out says the Mirror today by three ‘key suspects’ all of whom have been interviewed at least twice before and freed without charge.
Calling the theory “new” the Mirror claims it could give police “renewed hope they can solve the mystery”.
But Scharreberg is hoping they consider his material. " I strongly believe that the 'revelations' in the book should cause a change in the direction of the investigation, in a final attempt to solve the mystery", he told us. "If this causes the investigation to last for a few months longer, then so be it. I don't expect this file will be ever opened again when it's finally closed. So this is the (only) time to do it."
I think we can be sure the book will tell us Eddie alerted to cadaver and the usual rubbish started by amaral...there will be nothing new in it whatsoever
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on April 29, 2016, 01:47:43 PM
I find it very sad that in all these newspaper articles the child is generally treated as an inanimate object to be slotted into a theory, who doesn't see anything, hear anything, or think anything, or do anything. The one rare and welcome exception is our Heri, who is quoted in the Sun:
"Madeleine awoke and confronted him. Perhaps she started to scream when she realised he was not a relative ..."
Heri shines out like a shaft of gold, as the only person, in all these newspaper articles, who actually puts himself in the bare feet of the child, and thinks - what did the child see and hear, what did the child do?
I don't quite agree exactly with Heri on details (for example "confront" is wrong IMO) but 10/10 to Heri for treating the child as a real intelligent person, something the journos, some forum posters, and possibly OG seem to have forgotten.
I find it very sad that in all these newspaper articles the child is generallyy treated as an inanimate object to be slotted into a theory, who doesn't see anything, hear anything, or think anything, or do anything. The one rare and welcome exception is our Heri, who is quoted in the Sun:
"Madeleine awoke and confronted him. Perhaps she started to scream when she realised he was not a relative ..."
Heri shines out like a shaft of gold, as the only person, in all these newspaper articles, who actually puts himself in the bare feet of the child, and thinks - what did the child see and hear, what did the child do?
I don't quite exactly with Heri on details (for example "confront" is wrong IMO) but 10/10 to Heri for treating the child as a real intelligent person, something the journos seem to have forgotten.
Good Post. Heri is not to be faulted because he is logical, always.
Yes show me any other poster, or any journo at all, who puts themselves in the child's bare feet, and examines the seconds when a burglar was opening the shutter, and asks: what did the child see, hear, think, and do?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 29, 2016, 02:31:43 PM
Yes show me any other poster, or any journo at all, who puts themselves in the child's bare feet, and examines the seconds when a burglar was opening the shutter, and asks: what did the child see, hear, think, and do?
Apart from Heri, Pathfinder and you, I would be hard pushed to find a Poster who actually uses their brain without getting nasty.
Your conclusions are not for us all, But at least you try. If all Posters were like you then Moderators wouldn't be necessary.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pegasus on April 29, 2016, 02:40:44 PM
Heri and me at least try to put ourselves in the child's shoes bare feet at the moment someone opened that shutter.
You see, I can see the possibility of Madeleine about to screech her head off, although I don't know if she did. And God knows what a burglar might have done in panic.
When I was a very small child, and surrounded by bombs dropping, I often lost my voice and became entirely incapable of uttering a sound.
Look now, just go on being as reasonable as you always are. This Forum does not give you as much credit as you deserve.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 29, 2016, 03:13:06 PM
You see, I can see the possibility of Madeleine about to screech her head off, although I don't know if she did. And God knows what a burglar might have done in panic.
When I was a very small child, and surrounded by bombs dropping, I often lost my voice and became entirely incapable of uttering a sound.
Look now, just go on being as reasonable as you always are. This Forum does not give you as much credit as you deserve.
Quick exit is my guess.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 29, 2016, 03:26:33 PM
I would have thought so. But whoever it was doesn't seem to have done so. Which leads me back to Abduction by Order. Or at least the knowledge that someone would buy the child.
I remain suspicious of the Brazilian Couple who were living on a boat in the Marina, and who had apparently voiced a desire for a child. Where did they disappear to?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 29, 2016, 04:45:55 PM
I would have thought so. But whoever it was doesn't seem to have done so. Which leads me back to Abduction by Order. Or at least the knowledge that someone would buy the child.
I remain suspicious of the Brazilian Couple who were living on a boat in the Marina, and who had apparently voiced a desire for a child. Where did they disappear to?
What evidence is there to demonstrate this?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 29, 2016, 04:56:00 PM
Not very much at all, on record. But it was said that one of them said that they wanted a child. And then they disappeared at precisely the same time as Madeleine.
Make of that what you will. But you probably won't.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 29, 2016, 05:06:29 PM
Not very much at all, on record. But it was said that one of them said that they wanted a child. And then they disappeared at precisely the same time as Madeleine.
Make of that what you will. But you probably won't.
No I won't, thank you, because I was asking what evidence there was that this theoretical burglar didn't make an immediate exit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 29, 2016, 11:27:40 PM
There is no evidence of a burglary, even Clarence Mitchell admitted that.
and without evidence any belief is worthless.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 30, 2016, 05:39:23 PM
It looks as if we are going to be unable to take at face value the media statements attributed to 'a friend close to the *seething* McCanns'. One would have thought we would have learned that lesson after nine years.
Kate and Gerry McCann did not pull out of new Maddie appeal on Lorraine show 12:22, 30 APR 2016 UPDATED 12:22, 30 APR 2016 The parents of Madeleine McCann were accused of cancelling an appearance on the ITV morning show
The parents of Madeleine McCann have been accused of cancelling an appearance on the Lorraine show, where they were allegedly set to launch a fresh appeal on the ninth anniversary of their daughter’s disappearance.
However, Kate and Gerry McCann were never due to appear on the ITV morning show, it has been confirmed.
A spokesperson for ITV told Mirror Celebs: "The McCanns have never been booked or confirmed to come and appear on Lorraine next Tuesday." http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/kate-gerry-mccann-not-pull-7866528?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 30, 2016, 07:33:09 PM
It looks as if we are going to be unable to take at face value the media statements attributed to 'a friend close to the *seething* McCanns'. One would have thought we would have learned that lesson after nine years.
Kate and Gerry McCann did not pull out of new Maddie appeal on Lorraine show 12:22, 30 APR 2016 UPDATED 12:22, 30 APR 2016 The parents of Madeleine McCann were accused of cancelling an appearance on the ITV morning show
The parents of Madeleine McCann have been accused of cancelling an appearance on the Lorraine show, where they were allegedly set to launch a fresh appeal on the ninth anniversary of their daughter’s disappearance.
However, Kate and Gerry McCann were never due to appear on the ITV morning show, it has been confirmed.
A spokesperson for ITV told Mirror Celebs: "The McCanns have never been booked or confirmed to come and appear on Lorraine next Tuesday." http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/kate-gerry-mccann-not-pull-7866528?
Or the Mirror is being economical with truth.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on April 30, 2016, 07:46:29 PM
Perhaps ... and perhaps ITV are INNIT too ... I rather doubt that but what you think is entirely a matter for you.
Quote A spokesperson for ITV told Mirror Celebs: "The McCanns have never been booked or confirmed to come and appear on Lorraine next Tuesday." End quote
However the story which originally appeared in the Star was wrong. It is not possible to cancel a booking never made nor to confirm an appointment which never existed in the first instance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 30, 2016, 07:49:30 PM
Nothing from the McCanns or their mouthpiece to clarify the position.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2016, 08:03:54 PM
Nothing from the McCanns or their mouthpiece to clarify the position.
Clarification has never been their strong point, has it?
ITV could be saying the McCanns had asked or been invited to appear but hadn't confirmed it. No confirmation no booking. I don't suppose we'll ever know.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on April 30, 2016, 10:15:13 PM
Yes tell that to gerry the architect of confusion is good
Dr Gerry McCann is not "the architect of confusion is good."
**Snip "Confusion is good" It is falsely but nevertheless frequently claimed by anti-McCann posters that Gerry McCann used the phrase "confusion is good" in the above interview. It is possible that this false claim has its roots in a comment which was posted under the video on the STV website:-
Quote by "The Slave" on 9th February 2010 "Confusion is good ? For you maybe, Gerry." http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078182/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2039
However, this expression was not at any time used by Gerry McCann in the interview.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 01, 2016, 03:30:24 PM
Dr Gerry McCann is not "the architect of confusion is good."
**Snip "Confusion is good" It is falsely but nevertheless frequently claimed by anti-McCann posters that Gerry McCann used the phrase "confusion is good" in the above interview. It is possible that this false claim has its roots in a comment which was posted under the video on the STV website:-
Quote by "The Slave" on 9th February 2010 "Confusion is good ? For you maybe, Gerry." http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078182/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2039
However, this expression was not at any time used by Gerry McCann in the interview.
Oh, her. One might have known.
But that's another Myth debunked.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 01, 2016, 06:17:57 PM
Dr Gerry McCann is not "the architect of confusion is good."
**Snip "Confusion is good" It is falsely but nevertheless frequently claimed by anti-McCann posters that Gerry McCann used the phrase "confusion is good" in the above interview. It is possible that this false claim has its roots in a comment which was posted under the video on the STV website:-
Quote by "The Slave" on 9th February 2010 "Confusion is good ? For you maybe, Gerry." http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078182/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2039
However, this expression was not at any time used by Gerry McCann in the interview.
He may not have the said the exact three words in sequence but he defintely said that it was good that no one knew whether anythng written in the papers was true or false, albeit he was saying from the point of view of givng info to an abductor, nothing to do with any comment by any poster off a forum...have you seen the interview?
Quote
And, in fact, one of the slight positives in... in all of this is that there is so much rumour about what did and didn't happen, it's actually very difficult, if you're reading the newspapers, watching TV, to know what is true and what's not.
Unquote
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2016, 01:26:12 AM
He may not have the said the exact three words in sequence but he defintely said that it was good that no one knew whether anythng written in the papers was true or false, albeit he was saying from the point of view of givng info to an abductor, nothing to do with any comment by any poster off a forum...have you seen the interview?
Quote
And, in fact, one of the slight positives in... in all of this is that there is so much rumour about what did and didn't happen, it's actually very difficult, if you're reading the newspapers, watching TV, to know what is true and what's not.
Unquote
The whole point is that he didn't say the exact same words either in sequence or out of it ... some woman who has chosen the rather extraordinary name of "The Slave" for herself, said them.
Therefore it is wrong to attribute what someone else has said to another individual whether that individual is Gerry McCann, whether it is me, whether it is you. It is wrong. I am sure you will agree with that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on May 03, 2016, 07:26:55 AM
The whole point is that he didn't say the exact same words either in sequence or out of it ... some woman who has chosen the rather extraordinary name of "The Slave" for herself, said them.
Therefore it is wrong to attribute what someone else has said to another individual whether that individual is Gerry McCann, whether it is me, whether it is you. It is wrong. I am sure you will agree with that.
It's a précis of what he said.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on May 03, 2016, 08:15:52 AM
A precis is useless from an 'information' point of view unless it includes reference to the context from which the precis was made.
Because the context has been omitted - the precis on its own can be used to give a completely different meaning to the true meaning - which is exactly what has happened - and hence 'Gerry said confusion is good' has become a forum myth which is still doing the rounds years later. IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2016, 08:35:02 AM
The expression has been repeatedly used to portray Gerry as deliberately covering up the truth in an attempt to Confuse The Police, which is exactly the opposite to what he actually said. This is hardly a précis.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 03, 2016, 10:58:23 AM
A simple reminder that posts should be amiable and to the point. Please remember that posts which contain goading or abusive remarks will be removed. TY
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on May 03, 2016, 09:52:28 PM
The whole point is that he didn't say the exact same words either in sequence or out of it ... some woman who has chosen the rather extraordinary name of "The Slave" for herself, said them.
Therefore it is wrong to attribute what someone else has said to another individual whether that individual is Gerry McCann, whether it is me, whether it is you. It is wrong. I am sure you will agree with that.
Yes it is wrong if untrue. So lets ask, how is it a positive thing in a case like this that no one knows what happened or didnt happen then?
@benice you can find the context in the STV interview here, half way down the page
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id211.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on May 03, 2016, 09:52:52 PM
I find the McCanns vow so empty if I'm honest. Gerry McCann in particular has put his own career ahead of any real attempt to get directly involved in looking for his daughter. The only time he sets foot in Portugal that we are aware of was to do with his persecution of Amaral and we all know how that has backfired. The McCanns are on the backfoot now and frankly they brought it all upon themselves.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 04, 2016, 12:37:04 PM
I find the McCanns vow so empty if I'm honest. Gerry McCann in particular has put his own career ahead of any real attempt to get directly involved in looking for his daughter. The only time he sets foot in Portugal that we are aware of was to do with his persecution of Amaral and we all know how that has backfired. The McCanns are on the backfoot now and frankly they brought it all upon themselves.
That Angelo is a precise summation of the situation.
Why the press continue to print these articles is somewhat curious, since the readers comments and votes make it abundantly clear the mccanns are no longer supported as they were.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on May 04, 2016, 12:44:39 PM
That Angelo is a precise summation of the situation.
Why the press continue to print these articles is somewhat curious, since the readers comments and votes make it abundantly clear the mccanns are no longer supported as they were.
The Mail obviously has a hotline to Clarry.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 04, 2016, 01:39:14 PM
That Angelo is a precise summation of the situation.
Why the press continue to print these articles is somewhat curious, since the readers comments and votes make it abundantly clear the mccanns are no longer supported as they were.
Yea,, you guys have done a great job at spreading disinformation
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 06, 2016, 09:35:20 PM
Yea,, you guys have done a great job at spreading disinformation
I try very hard not to spread disinformation. If I give an opinion I try to base it on facts and I provide cites to those facts. I don't post theories and refuse to explain my sources. I don't support my arguments by referring to 'common sense' because my common sense is not the same as other's. I don't promote an abduction because there's no evidence there was an abduction. I can't be confident in a full unbiased investigation by OG because of their restrictive remit. I don't speculate about burglar's methods and motivations because there's no evidence of a burglary taking place.
My main aim is to point out when others speculate and offer their opinions as fact. In other words, I try to prevent the spreading of disinformation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on May 07, 2016, 07:28:30 AM
I try very hard not to spread disinformation. If I give an opinion I try to base it on facts and I provide cites to those facts. I don't post theories and refuse to explain my sources. I don't support my arguments by referring to 'common sense' because my common sense is not the same as other's. I don't promote an abduction because there's no evidence there was an abduction. I can't be confident in a full unbiased investigation by OG because of their restrictive remit. I don't speculate about burglar's methods and motivations because there's no evidence of a burglary taking place.
My main aim is to point out when others speculate and offer their opinions as fact. In other words, I try to prevent the spreading of disinformation.
Succinct and to the point. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on May 07, 2016, 08:28:42 AM
I try very hard not to spread disinformation. If I give an opinion I try to base it on facts and I provide cites to those facts. I don't post theories and refuse to explain my sources. I don't support my arguments by referring to 'common sense' because my common sense is not the same as other's. I don't promote an abduction because there's no evidence there was an abduction. I can't be confident in a full unbiased investigation by OG because of their restrictive remit. I don't speculate about burglar's methods and motivations because there's no evidence of a burglary taking place.
My main aim is to point out when others speculate and offer their opinions as fact. In other words, I try to prevent the spreading of disinformation.
I don't have you down as a poster who is here to spread disinformation G - far from it.
However, as the reason why Gerry changed his statement re the doors was never divulged to us - can you explain how you came to the conclusion that it was because he couldn't remember which door he used on 3rd May? Isn't that stating an opinion as fact?
IMO that claim definitely defies common sense.
IMO many of the arguments put forward on here from both sides are based on 'common sense', or maybe 'common knowledge' would be a more accurate description at times.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 07, 2016, 09:23:33 AM
I don't have you down as a poster who is here to spread disinformation G - far from it.
However, as the reason why Gerry changed his statement re the doors was never divulged to us - can you explain how you came to the conclusion that it was because he couldn't remember which door he used on 3rd May? Isn't that stating an opinion as fact?
IMO that claim definitely defies common sense.
IMO many of the arguments put forward on here from both sides are based on 'common sense', or maybe 'common knowledge' would be a more accurate description at times.
Thank you, Benice, I try my best. It's a fine line between opinion and fact.
It's a fact that Gerry said he used the front door, and it's a fact that he changed that later to using the patio doors. I used those facts to suggest his memory wasn't the greatest. My opinion may be wrong but the facts are there, they can be seen and checked.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 07, 2016, 09:33:05 AM
Thank you, Benice, I try my best. It's a fine line between opinion and fact.
It's a fact that Gerry said he used the front door, and it's a fact that he changed that later to using the patio doors. I used those facts to suggest his memory wasn't the greatest. My opinion may be wrong but the facts are there, they can be seen and checked.
It is a fact that the interview quoted is not verbatim, was written by a translator from English into Portuguese and translated back from Portuguese into English.
It is also on record that there was considerable confusion as to what was referred to as the back door and the front door ... what could possibly go wrong?
There are facts ... and then there is innuendo and interpretation of what those alleged facts may mean ... one has to be very careful when differentiating between the two.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 07, 2016, 10:56:23 AM
It is a fact that the interview quoted is not verbatim, was written by a translator from English into Portuguese and translated back from Portuguese into English.
It is also on record that there was considerable confusion as to what was referred to as the back door and the front door ... what could possibly go wrong?
There are facts ... and then there is innuendo and interpretation of what those alleged facts may mean ... one has to be very careful when differentiating between the two.
I have previous answered all those objections. Just to clarify; a key was mentioned and the patio doors had no key, and in Gerry's second statement he admits what he said in his first statement and that he is now changing it. Pretty clear imo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 07, 2016, 12:48:51 PM
I have previous answered all those objections. Just to clarify; a key was mentioned and the patio doors had no key, and in Gerry's second statement he admits what he said in his first statement and that he is now changing it. Pretty clear imo.
A quote which is originally mistaken or taken out of context can mean many different things to many different people.
It is therefore difficult to take seriously a claim to one being 'unbiased' both in selection and interpretation unless there is evidence of even handedness.
The rogatory statements are what they are because they were recorded and appropriate questions asked and expanded upon.
The statements taken in Portugal are what they are and as far as I am concerned I wouldn't bet the mortgage on them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on May 08, 2016, 12:48:26 AM
A quote which is originally mistaken or taken out of context can mean many different things to many different people.
It is therefore difficult to take seriously a claim to one being 'unbiased' both in selection and interpretation unless there is evidence of even handedness.
The rogatory statements are what they are because they were recorded and appropriate questions asked and expanded upon.
The statements taken in Portugal are what they are and as far as I am concerned I wouldn't bet the mortgage on them.
It doesn't help when a suspect refuses to answer. Would Kate McCann please stand up!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 08, 2016, 01:34:45 AM
It doesn't help when a suspect refuses to answer. Would Kate McCann please stand up!
Kate McCann exercised her right as an arguida. The questions asked had nothing to do with Madeleine's case. They were to build a case against her ... she was 100% (not DNA) correct not to answer, particularly as her Portuguese lawyer told her not to.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on May 08, 2016, 01:53:16 AM
Kate McCann exercised her right as an arguida. The questions asked had nothing to do with Madeleine's case. They were to build a case against her ... she was 100% (not DNA) correct not to answer, particularly as her Portuguese lawyer told her not to.
So asking her what she saw on her entrance to her apartment and what she did were trick questions? there is no reason whatsoever for her not answering that question seeing as she ignored her lawyers advice by answering thr last question
The police wouldnt be able to build a case against someone who was truthful and cooperative and especially with uk political support, pull the other one
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 08, 2016, 02:23:33 AM
So asking her what she saw on her entrance to her apartment and what she did were trick questions? there is no reason whatsoever for her not answering that question seeing as she ignored her lawyers advice by answering thr last question
The police wouldnt be able to build a case against someone who was truthful and cooperative and especially with uk political support, pull the other one
You mean she hadn't already been asked and answered that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on May 08, 2016, 02:52:57 AM
You mean she hadn't already been asked and answered that?
Its the polices prerogative to ask questions which they have already asked if they have reason to suspect one or more were not truthful in the first instance...they would be amiss in their duty if they did not
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 08, 2016, 06:58:11 PM
Kate McCann exercised her right as an arguida. The questions asked had nothing to do with Madeleine's case. They were to build a case against her ... she was 100% (not DNA) correct not to answer, particularly as her Portuguese lawyer told her not to.
It was indeed her right yet Gerry chose to answer. Her Portuguese lawyer thought she was guilty having just returned from a meeting with the PJ. It was all he could do but advise not to answer any questions.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 08, 2016, 07:26:49 PM
It was indeed her right yet Gerry chose to answer. Her Portuguese lawyer thought she was guilty having just returned from a meeting with the PJ. It was all he could do but advise not to answer any questions.
Probably her lawyer had been given a showing of 'the dogs' and told that they were alerting to Madeleine's body; but I don't think he would have been much of a lawyer had he not advised her in any case not to answer any questions.
Gerry McCann was given the same advice, but chose not to take it.
I think the main target was Kate McCann and I think it was hoped to wear her down and into a confession.
That would have solved a problem for the chief investigator who had all his eggs in the one thesis. Particularly as it was already known after the receipt of John Lowe's e-mail that there wasn't a scintilla of evidence against either of Madeleine's parents hence the rush to constitute them arguidos days before the change in the law which would have precluded that happening without evidence in support. Which they did not have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 08, 2016, 07:41:11 PM
It was indeed her right yet Gerry chose to answer. Her Portuguese lawyer thought she was guilty having just returned from a meeting with the PJ. It was all he could do but advise not to answer any questions.
Kate says in her book that neither of them were planning to answer any questions then Gerry changed his mind;
unfortunately our inconsistent responses to interrogation led to me being portrayed as ‘difficult’ or even ‘guilty’ in certain sections of the media
Well it would, wouldn't it? The one who co-operates is often seen as less culpable.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on May 15, 2016, 12:27:57 AM
Police ALWAYS suspect the uncooperative
See the telegraph has repeated the story and stuck trolls in inverted commas lol
sceptics started saying things like this about 8 years ago.....tick tock
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 15, 2016, 09:43:12 AM
Indeed. No mention of Amaral accusing the McCanns of killing their daughter. No outing of those who donated. It's not 'news', but it's almost truthful.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 18, 2016, 11:07:27 AM
Has Mr Mitchell got a new job with JBP?
Clarence Mitchell Director of Client & Media Services
http://www.jbp.co.uk/about/clarence-mitchell
McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell joins public affairs agency JBP Read more at http://www.prweek.com/article/1395236/mccann-family-spokesman-clarence-mitchell-joins-public-affairs-agency-jbp#YIgDKyliBGXHX0UR.99
When he launched Clarence Mitchell Communications JBP were mentioned as clients;
Among his founding clients are JBP, a Westminster strategic PR and public affairs agency, where he will act as a senior consultant. http://www.prweek.com/article/1360396/madeleine-mccann-family-spokesman-clarence-mitchell-sets-pr-agency
So is he running his own company, working for the McCanns and for JBP? He seems to have gone quiet on the McCann front lately. Perhaps he's spreading himself a bit thinly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on May 18, 2016, 11:16:43 AM
Clarence Mitchell Director of Client & Media Services
http://www.jbp.co.uk/about/clarence-mitchell
McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell joins public affairs agency JBP Read more at http://www.prweek.com/article/1395236/mccann-family-spokesman-clarence-mitchell-joins-public-affairs-agency-jbp#YIgDKyliBGXHX0UR.99
When he launched Clarence Mitchell Communications JBP were mentioned as clients;
Among his founding clients are JBP, a Westminster strategic PR and public affairs agency, where he will act as a senior consultant. http://www.prweek.com/article/1360396/madeleine-mccann-family-spokesman-clarence-mitchell-sets-pr-agency
So is he running his own company, working for the McCanns and for JBP? He seems to have gone quiet on the McCann front lately. Perhaps he's spreading himself a bit thinly.
Maybe he is being astute making a smooth move. Still close enough to take credit but far enough away to say "nothing to do with me pal" ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 18, 2016, 12:06:53 PM
Maybe he is being astute making a smooth move. Still close enough to take credit but far enough away to say "nothing to do with me pal" ?
I guess he did what he was paid to do. Judging by the 'anniversary' silence it's possible that the idea of keeping Madeleine's 'abduction' in the headlines is being toned down or abandoned. The media seem willing to carry on printing the stories but the comments suggest that people don't want to read them any more.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on May 18, 2016, 12:09:36 PM
Honest police don't suspect (or especially accuse) without ground or foundation.
Who are these honest police then? South Yorkshire police were assumed to be honest about Hillsborough (although I heard the truth from an eye-witness on the day) and their behaviour at Orgreave is being questioned (I heard from people involved in the Miner's Strike about 'dirty tricks' at the time). It seems UK policemen are only honest until found out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 18, 2016, 04:00:06 PM
This topic is sailing too close to the wind. Kindly turn down the knob marked 'potential for libel'.
Thanks.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 20, 2016, 10:07:24 AM
The donkey jacket that never was and the birth of spin:
Brian McArthur reviews Keith McDowall's Before Spin
Before Spin is an illuminating memoir of McDowall's distinguished career
The title of the book is a deliberate tilt at modern spin doctors
The book should be read by journalists, civil servants and politicians
By BRIAN MCARTHUR FOR THE DAILY MAIL PUBLISHED: 23:25, 19 May 2016 | UPDATED: 23:39, 19 May 2016
**snip The title of the book, Before Spin, is a deliberate tilt at modern spin doctors, although he doesn't exempt papers from his criticisms.
Have today's journalists no pride left, he asks?
'Would they rather take Richard Desmond's shilling on the Daily Express than tell him where to put his job if it meant inflicting further torture on the McCanns, falsely accused of murdering their own child?'
Another one assuming that he knows the truth about what happened in the Madeleine McCann case.
Anther one forgetting the mccanns actually employed a spin doctor. Didnt see that article. The chap has been reading the tabloids to talk about the tabloids. Does he believe the tabloids or not? As he states the mccanns were accused of murder, only available in the tabloids, nowhere else. SO who was spnnng the truth here? The tabloids or the spn doctors? does he know the difference?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on May 21, 2016, 11:43:50 PM
Just looking for supreme e court application news , nothing yet, but oops, wtf , sharon osborne? Her mate simon cowell wont like this
I don't think theorizing that Gerry smuggled Madeleine's body back to England in a holdall was particularly reasonable myself.
When did Pat Brown suggest that theory ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: lordpookles on May 28, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
She has postulated that this is a credible theory before. IMO she is often hilariously blinkered and biased. She also makes good points in amongst the rubbish too. See below:
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic15571.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 28, 2016, 12:14:46 PM
She has postulated that this is a credible theory before. IMO she is often hilariously blinkered and biased. She also makes good points in amongst the rubbish too. See below:
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic15571.html
Totally mind numbing ...
Quote from Pat Brown
Because of the climate in Portugal, it is possible that should they have buried Maddy in a shallow grave in a sandy substrate, her body would have mummified. Mummification is a desiccation of the corpse where the fluids drain into the ground and the rest of the body dries up. There is relatively little odor associated with a mummified body.
If this occurred, the body would be easier to transport; it would be lighter and drier and lacking the horrible smell of a corpse. Such a body could easily be placed in a sealed bag and placed in a suitcase. Screening of stowed luggage is not likely to uncover a body inside of a suitcase and when the traveler reaches the other end and goes through customs, they enter the “Have nothing to declare line,” and just walk through (unless they exhibit concerning behavior that raises a red flag and launches a search of the luggage). As to the McCanns, I seriously doubt they were searched upon arrival, not with all the press surrounding them and the mass of curious onlookers, reporters, and VIPS lurking about. ‘ IF the McCanns were involved and IF Maddy’s body was brought home, when this would have happened is another question. Unfortunately, only those inside the organization would (we hope) know the truth about the McCann’s movements. For example, Gerry McCann returned to England on June 19, just four days after an exhaustive search for Madeleine was called off. This search was in an arid, desolate area (the kind of climate which might encourage the mummification of a body) near a town called Odiaxere. A letter from an unknown sender had stated she could be found there in a shallow grave. Four days later, Gerry is on a plane home. I don’t know if he took any luggage with him, anything more than a rucksack (which I don’t know the size of). End quote
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic15571.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 30, 2016, 09:21:20 AM
I wasn't sure if this is the correct thread, but here goes. The 'friend' speaks again and shares interesting information. I do find it strange that any friend would make these statements though, because they don't help imo;
The exasperation and anguish continues......The Fund will pay the 'big' legal bill if they lose. (The Star says it could wipe the Fund out).....When OG ends they will have to fund their own private investigation again.
If you undertake litigation you can't be sure you'll win, so I don't understand this exasperation. They started all this, so it's self-inflicted. Now we know that the plan is to settle the bill from the Fund if they lose. Note 'when' OG ends, not 'if', and no expectation of a solution. The references to Amaral have changed - no more insults I notice.
Maddie McCann's parents lodge legal bid against cop who claimed 'cover-up' MADELEINE McCann's parents have lodged a new legal bid to silence the former detective who claims they covered up her death.
By Jerry Lawton / Published 30th May 2016
BATTLE: Gerry and Kate McCann have lodged a legal bid against cop Goncalo Amaral
Goncalo Amaral overturned a court ruling ordering him to pay doctors Kate and Gerry McCann 500,000 Euro (£380,000) in libel damages over the claims in his best-selling book The Truth Of The Lie.
The victory meant the former policeman – who led the hunt for the youngster for five months after she vanished in Portugal in 2007 – did not have to pay the McCanns any compensation and could re-publish his book.
The couple, from Rothley, Leics, were ordered to pay his court costs.
But they have now submitted an appeal to Portugal's Supreme Court to overturn Mr Amaral's win.
If they lose, the legal bill could wipe out the Find Madeleine Fund set up using public donations to help the search for their daughter.
A friend of the couple said: "They are exasperated by this. The longer it goes on the more anguish it causes them.
"We hope the appeal will be successful.
"If they lose there will be a big legal bill to pay which will come from the fund set up to find Madeleine.
"When Operation Grange ends Kate and Gerry will have to finance their own private investigation again." http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/519300/Maddie-McCanns-parents-lodge-legal-bid-cop-claimed-cover-up?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+daily-star-latest-news+%28Daily+Star+::+News+Feed%29
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on June 03, 2016, 01:43:37 AM
None of their true friends would make thngs worse they cant be that stupid can they, its probably clarence spin doctor hedging his bets.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 03, 2016, 06:45:20 AM
Because of the climate in Portugal, it is possible that should they have buried Maddy in a shallow grave in a sandy substrate, her body would have mummified. Mummification is a desiccation of the corpse where the fluids drain into the ground and the rest of the body dries up. There is relatively little odor associated with a mummified body.
If this occurred, the body would be easier to transport; it would be lighter and drier and lacking the horrible smell of a corpse. Such a body could easily be placed in a sealed bag and placed in a suitcase. Screening of stowed luggage is not likely to uncover a body inside of a suitcase and when the traveler reaches the other end and goes through customs, they enter the “Have nothing to declare line,” and just walk through (unless they exhibit concerning behavior that raises a red flag and launches a search of the luggage). As to the McCanns, I seriously doubt they were searched upon arrival, not with all the press surrounding them and the mass of curious onlookers, reporters, and VIPS lurking about. ‘ IF the McCanns were involved and IF Maddy’s body was brought home, when this would have happened is another question. Unfortunately, only those inside the organization would (we hope) know the truth about the McCann’s movements. For example, Gerry McCann returned to England on June 19, just four days after an exhaustive search for Madeleine was called off. This search was in an arid, desolate area (the kind of climate which might encourage the mummification of a body) near a town called Odiaxere. A letter from an unknown sender had stated she could be found there in a shallow grave. Four days later, Gerry is on a plane home. I don’t know if he took any luggage with him, anything more than a rucksack (which I don’t know the size of). End quote
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic15571.html
Pat Brown is a laugh a minute.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on June 11, 2016, 07:05:21 PM
The disappearance of a 13-year-old schoolboy in Dublin attracted huge attention - on a scale similar to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in 2007.
The cases of missing children always deserve such attention.
Like Madeleine, the disappearance of Philip Cairns has been one of the most perplexing criminal cases in recent times.
Images of a beaming Philip in his confirmation suit, with a white rosette pinned to his jacket, became ingrained in the minds of a generation throughout Ireland - many of whom had simply assumed we would never know what happened to the Dublin schoolboy.
The death of Eamon Cooke (79), a convicted paedophile and founder of pirate station Dublin Radio, has unexpectedly brought into sharp focus the schoolboy's disappearance.
But we must be careful - although a woman has nominated Cooke as the killer of Philip, it will be extremely hard for investigating gardaí to conclusively prove this is the case.
The woman came forward last month as Cooke lay dying in a Dublin hospice and made a statement along the lines that Cooke murdered Philip in his radio studios.
Philip disappeared on the afternoon of October 23, 1986, as he walked back to Coláiste Éanna school where he had been a first-year student for just over a month.
His schoolbag was later discovered in a lane near his family home on Ballyroan Road six days after his disappearance.
This woman has told gardaí that, on the day Philip disappeared, she was in a car with Cooke and the schoolboy.
She says Cooke drove them to his radio studios in Inchicore. The woman claims Cooke struck the child with an implement following an argument. She claims she saw the young boy unconscious and bleeding on the floor shortly after the assault.
The woman claims that she then fainted. When she woke up, she says she was in a car driven by Cooke. She opted to keep this information to herself for almost three decades.
I met Cooke several years ago when he was on the run and wanted by gardaí at the time. He had a disturbing preoccupation with another child, whose pictures he showed me during an interview. I organised, and I'm delighted to have done so, for gardaí to be there at the Red Cow Hotel to arrest him.
Following that arrest, Cooke never tasted freedom again and, in 2007, he was jailed for 10 years for sexually abusing two young girls in the 1970s.
What is particularly interesting at the moment is how he has now become a suspect in this, the most long-running case of child disappearance in the history of the State.
Cooke, who was a twisted, nasty, sick creature preyed on children for many years - and got away with it.
Only when this sick monster was dying in a Dublin hospice, while on temporary release from Arbour Hill, did he become a suspect in Philip Cairns's disappearance.
But even then, as he was receiving palliative care and at the very least knew he was gravely ill, Cooke would admit to very little, although he did verify some details of the woman's statement.
Gardaí were mindful of this. They offered Cooke the opportunity to give any information he had about Philip to a solicitor, a priest or any other professional, who could disclose it to them after his death.
However, 'Captain Cooke' would not or could not give them any information.
It will be very difficult for gardaí to conclusively prove that this paedophile was responsible for Philip's disappearance.
The radio studios in Inchicore has been named as the scene of the crime - but it was demolished a long time ago.
I personally know a number of Cooke's victims - and I have never in all my years as a journalist seen or witnessed a more depraved individual than Cooke.
As a journalist I spoke to Cooke directly and was astonished by the way that he rationalised his abuse of a child.
The fact that Eamon Cooke had the capacity to kill Philip Cairns - if we know this to be a fact or otherwise - may bring some closure to his family.
I truly hope that gardaí can bring this investigation to a satisfactory conclusion for Philip's family, and with that, finally give them some closure.
This could be a huge step towards resolving one of the country's most chilling and unsolved murders.
Irish Independent
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on June 23, 2016, 12:05:15 AM
'IT COULD HAVE BEEN ME' Chilling echoes of Madeleine McCann as mum tells how an intruder tried to snatch her from her cot at Portugal resort Nicole Shuttleworth was aged three when her parents foiled Algarve kidnapper 13 years before McCann case EXCLUSIVE BY FELIX ALLEN 22nd June 2016, 5:51 pm
A WOMAN who was saved from a child snatcher in Portugal 13 years before Madeleine McCann went missing has revealed: “It could easily have been me.”
Nicole Shuttleworth, 25, was just three years old when her mum woke to see a dark intruder reaching into her cot in their Algarve hotel room. Her case has chilling echoes of Madeleine, who was also three when she vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in May 2007.
Nine years on, Madeleine is still missing and the police seem no closer to serving the mystery.
But in 1994, Nicole was holidaying with her cleaner mum Lilian and painter decorator dad Stephen in Albufeira, 45 minutes away from Praia Da Luz.
Photos show the blonde youngster bore a striking resemblance to Madeleine at the time the pervert tried to snatch her.
One night Lilian, now 53, woke up to a dark male figure standing over Nicole’s cot reaching in to grab her.
Lilian let out a “blood-curdling scream” which woke her husband Stephen, now 58, who chased the intruder off.
As there was no sign of a break in, the family believed the would-be abductor used hotel keys to enter their room – something the hotel denied.
The shaken family moved to another hotel that day as they could not bear to stay in the room after what happened.
In 2007, when the family heard of the devastating news of Madeline McCann, they got in touch with investigators to offer up information in case there was a link with their experience.
Incredibly, despite contacting them twice they only got a call back eight years later.
Today Nicole is a mum herself to son Charlie, 15 months, and wants to share her story to warn other parents.
Nicole said: “I remember snippets, but my mum and dad filled me in.
“We shudder at the thought of what might have happened had my mum never woken up.
“As a mum, to wake up to an empty cot would be agonising.
“A dark figure was watching over my cot and reaching in touching me. My mum let out a blood curdling scream and woke my dad who chased them away.
“When news broke about Maddie we were all in shock. We wanted to offer as much info as we could.
“We were so surprised no one contacted us back, we only received a call back eight years later.
“My heart goes out to the McCanns. It is a lot to go through for any family, but their result was a lot more devastating than ours.
“People must be aware of the dangers that are there home or away. We must look out and after our children.
“I am so blessed that I am here to share this horror story.”
In April, Scotland Yard said its £11m Operation Grange probe into Madeleine’s disappearance would end within months as detectives have run out of leads to follow.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on July 18, 2016, 09:58:37 PM
SICK MADDIE STUNT Outrage as sick trolls ‘joke’ about finding MADDIE on Pokemon Go
(http://i.imgur.com/CumYM2C.jpg?1)
Vile bullies share shocking image of tragic youngster superimposed onto screenshot from smash hit smartphone game.
by JASPER HAMILL 18th July 2016
Trolls have posted sick jokes on social media suggesting missing Madeleine McCann can be found on the Pokemon Go game.
Vile yobs have used Twitter and Facebook to make shocking comments linking Madeleine to the new craze, which has seen millions of people hunting for Pokemon using a mobile phone app.
A man using the name Scott Rennie, from Glasgow, published a highly offensive image in which Madeleine’s face was superimposed on a screenshot of the Pokemon app along with the message: “Doon dalmuir park doing pre season wae ma gowdie boys when a stumbled across the rarest of Pokemon.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on July 18, 2016, 11:11:32 PM
I've seen much worse posted on the #McCann tag on twitter, by regular so-called "justice-seekers". Honestly, if the paper wants a "Maddie Outrage" story on a daily basis they need look no further than #McCann, or any of the infamous "Justice 4 Maddie" Facebook pages and forums.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on July 19, 2016, 12:37:09 AM
Awww the good ole sun
Vile bullies they say, whose bullying who here?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 19, 2016, 03:45:19 AM
I'd say once the truth comes out it will spread like a wildfire via social media. I prefer the forums but Facebook has friends linked to friends so it won't take long to spread around the globe.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on August 06, 2016, 11:56:57 PM
No more forensic work on Madeleine McCann case say British police 20:53, 6 AUG 2016 UPDATED 20:53, 6 AUG 2016 BY NICK DORMAN
Operation Grange was costing more and more of taxpayers money while other areas face budget cuts.
British police hunting for missing Madeleine McCann have made the decision to stop all forensic work.
The Sunday Mirror can reveal the final scientific tests on the case were completed three months ago as part of Scotland Yard’s £12million inquiry.
Operation Grange was launched by ex-PM David Cameron five years ago to find the doctors’ daughter, who vanished, aged three, during a holiday to Portugal in 2007.
But it is expected to be shelved in the autumn amid concerns about its spiralling cost while other areas of policing face budget cuts.
A source said: “The final forensics were carried out about three months ago but, sadly, they didn’t take us forward. There are no plans for any further forensic work to take place.”
It had been hoped tests could be carried out on hairs recovered from the holiday flat from which Madeleine vanished.
It is a further blow for parents Kate and Gerry, who lost a £434,000 libel payout in April from a Portuguese officer who wrote a book questioning the pair’s account.
The couple, from Rothley, Leics, said: “Until we have answers, until there is news, there will always be hope and we will do everything we can to help find Madeleine.”
The inquiry has taken 1,338 statements and investigated 60 “persons of interest” but police privately concede they are no closer to finding Madeleine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on August 18, 2016, 01:03:55 AM
Oh dear Linking to MM is sometimes a bad idea http://metro.co.uk/2011/06/13/murderers-of-madeleine-mccann-of-israel-jailed-for-life-42706/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 29, 2016, 11:32:46 PM
Madeleine McCann's parents dump a key member of their team in a bid to slash spiralling costs
BY TRACEY KANDOHLA
Kate and Gerry axed PR expert Clarence Mitchell after nine years as they face uncertainty over the future of the £12million investigation
The parents of Madeleine McCann have dumped their spokesman in a bid to reduce spiralling costs.
Kate and Gerry axed PR expert Clarence Mitchell after nine years as they face uncertainty over the future of the £12million investigation – codenamed Operation Grange – into the disappearance of their daughter.
Kate and Gerry have just five more weeks of guaranteed Government funding towards the search.
The couple have vowed to use money from the official fund to continue the probe themselves, saying: “We will continue to do everything we can to help find our daughter. Our hope and resolve continues.”
Mr Mitchell was told his “services were no longer needed” in an email from heart doctor Gerry, who explained the family had to “cut costs”.
The Tory MP hopeful and former BBC journalist, who has helped keep Maddie’s disappearance in the global spotlight, was said to be “hurt” but respects their “more pressing agenda”.
The fund stands at £480,000, but the McCanns face a £434,000 libel bill to ex-Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral.
It is the first time since the three-year-old vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal’s Praia da Luz, in May 2007, that the family have not had an official spokesman.
Mr Mitchell told the Mirror last night: “It makes perfect sense for Kate and Gerry to keep careful consideration over all their costs. I will continue to help them as circumstances require.”
Former GP Kate and Gerry, both 48, are bracing themselves for Scotland Yard shelving the investigation on October 5. Officers have said there is now only one lead “worth pursuing”.
So he's gone but he's not - "I will continue to help them as circumstances require."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on August 30, 2016, 12:34:46 AM
Why they bracing themselves Did they think this investigation would go on for ever?Their kid isnt the only one missing and theyve been given years and years of help unlike anyone else, their thanks in church should ensue
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 30, 2016, 01:07:37 AM
Madeleine McCann's parents dump a key member of their team in a bid to slash spiralling costs
BY TRACEY KANDOHLA
Kate and Gerry axed PR expert Clarence Mitchell after nine years as they face uncertainty over the future of the £12million investigation
The parents of Madeleine McCann have dumped their spokesman in a bid to reduce spiralling costs.
Kate and Gerry axed PR expert Clarence Mitchell after nine years as they face uncertainty over the future of the £12million investigation – codenamed Operation Grange – into the disappearance of their daughter.
Kate and Gerry have just five more weeks of guaranteed Government funding towards the search.
The couple have vowed to use money from the official fund to continue the probe themselves, saying: “We will continue to do everything we can to help find our daughter. Our hope and resolve continues.”
Mr Mitchell was told his “services were no longer needed” in an email from heart doctor Gerry, who explained the family had to “cut costs”.
The Tory MP hopeful and former BBC journalist, who has helped keep Maddie’s disappearance in the global spotlight, was said to be “hurt” but respects their “more pressing agenda”.
The fund stands at £480,000, but the McCanns face a £434,000 libel bill to ex-Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral.
It is the first time since the three-year-old vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal’s Praia da Luz, in May 2007, that the family have not had an official spokesman.
Mr Mitchell told the Mirror last night: “It makes perfect sense for Kate and Gerry to keep careful consideration over all their costs. I will continue to help them as circumstances require.”
Former GP Kate and Gerry, both 48, are bracing themselves for Scotland Yard shelving the investigation on October 5. Officers have said there is now only one lead “worth pursuing”.
The good thing about this is that the mccanns might actually speak for themselves for a change ouwith controlled interviews, maybe
They have certainly learned a lot about handling the media. I wish them all the luck they need.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on August 30, 2016, 09:37:21 PM
Sounds like there might have been a fallng ut or else tracey kandhla cant stand mitchell, why the use of words like dumped and axed? For someone whose worked for them for years
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on September 05, 2016, 11:34:12 PM
Well that's one rumour scotched then. Amaral stressed that he has not asked for “any kind of compensation” - let alone €500,000.
It's nice to read a measured newspaper report without sensational claims which we all suspect are wild guesses. Is it only in small newspapers that journalists can do what they should be doing; reporting, not speculating?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on September 07, 2016, 12:25:44 AM
Indeed, whoeverer was behnd those tabloid reports is an utter plank and a half
A) for lying B) for thnkng it will encourage sympathy
Or else the tabloids have been given the go ahead to play mischief
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on September 07, 2016, 12:35:16 AM
By JAMES MURRAY AND CAROLINE WHEELER PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Sep 18, 2016
Financing for the four-strong team of officers working on Operation Grange was due to end in October.
But a fresh request, believed to be for a sum of around £100,000, was submitted to the Home Office as the deadline approached and has now been signed off.
A Whitehall source had indicated funding would be approved if “compelling evidence that justifies the use of additional taxpayers’ money” was provided by the team.
A spokesman for the Home Office said on Friday: “We have provided the Metropolitan Police with the funding required for Operation Grange to continue until at least the end of this financial year.
“The resources required will be reviewed again at this point.”
So far the inquiry into Madeleine’s disappearance from the apartment in Praia de Luz has cost £12million. At its height more than 30 officers were on the case.
Last month the "German Madeline McCann" was found 15 years after the girl's disappearance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent news! That one remaining lead must be worth continued investigation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on September 18, 2016, 12:44:30 AM
By JAMES MURRAY AND CAROLINE WHEELER PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Sep 18, 2016
Financing for the four-strong team of officers working on Operation Grange was due to end in October.
But a fresh request, believed to be for a sum of around £100,000, was submitted to the Home Office as the deadline approached and has now been signed off.
A Whitehall source had indicated funding would be approved if “compelling evidence that justifies the use of additional taxpayers’ money” was provided by the team.
A spokesman for the Home Office said on Friday: “We have provided the Metropolitan Police with the funding required for Operation Grange to continue until at least the end of this financial year.
“The resources required will be reviewed again at this point.”
So far the inquiry into Madeleine’s disappearance from the apartment in Praia de Luz has cost £12million. At its height more than 30 officers were on the case.
Last month the "German Madeline McCann" was found 15 years after the girl's disappearance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent news! That one remaining lead must be worth continued investigation.
Great News! They are on to something, almost without doubt!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 18, 2016, 02:43:44 AM
Great News! They are on to something, almost without doubt!
If they had reached the end of the road with nothing further left to investigate they would have wound down. I think your assessment is correct, Sadie. There is something going on and Madeleine's case is still considered to be very much a live one by the investigators. They would never have been able to convince the new Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, to extend the timescale and invest more money if they hadn't had something compelling with which to convince her.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on September 18, 2016, 08:22:41 AM
If they had reached the end of the road with nothing further left to investigate they would have wound down. I think your assessment is correct, Sadie. There is something going on and Madeleine's case is still considered to be very much a live one by the investigators. They would never have been able to convince the new Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, to extend the timescale and invest more money if they hadn't had something compelling with which to convince her.
£100000 for six months is not a lot in police budget terms.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 18, 2016, 08:45:01 AM
£100000 for six months is not a lot in police budget terms.
Better than nothing ... and perhaps as much as they need to be going on with until April ... when, if their line of enquiry remains unresolved but active, they will make the case for more funding.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on September 18, 2016, 09:22:14 AM
Better than nothing ... and perhaps as much as they need to be going on with until April ... when, if their line of enquiry remains unresolved but active, they will make the case for more funding.
£100000 isn't enough for imminent activities required to bring the case to a successful conclusion. As you say it is more of a holding situation. The sceptic in me says it is a lot easier for any government to give a small amount of budget to a case than archive a case with the negative publicity that would entail.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 18, 2016, 03:36:31 PM
£100000 isn't enough for imminent activities required to bring the case to a successful conclusion. As you say it is more of a holding situation. The sceptic in me says it is a lot easier for any government to give a small amount of budget to a case than archive a case with the negative publicity that would entail.
Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria have been actively working on Madeleine's case since 2011 ... we know when SY began their review, less certain is exactly when the PJ started on theirs.
We haven't a clue where they are at operationally. We only know from a Scotland Yard spokesperson that it is hoped that Madeleine may still be alive and that there are active leads still being followed.
I think the negative publicity would arise should the government be found to have acquiesced in throwing good money after bad, however piddling we might consider that amount, in pursuit of a case in which all avenues had been exhausted.
People are adult enough to understand that not all missing child investigations have a happy ending. When the police say they have taken it as far as they can that has to be respected. The other side of the coin must be respected too when they say there is further to go ... and I believe that is where SY and the government are at the moment.
It should also be remembered that the Portuguese government is also paying wages for this investigation and have given no indication to date of an inclination to stop doing so.
The adverse publicity to which you refer and indeed further abrogation of Madeleine McCann's human rights would certainly arise should it be discovered that the government had reneged on following through on active lines of enquiry in her case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on September 18, 2016, 04:10:30 PM
Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria have been actively working on Madeleine's case since 2011 ... we know when SY began their review, less certain is exactly when the PJ started on theirs.
We haven't a clue where they are at operationally. We only know from a Scotland Yard spokesperson that it is hoped that Madeleine may still be alive and that there are active leads still being followed.
I think the negative publicity would arise should the government be found to have acquiesced in throwing good money after bad, however piddling we might consider that amount, in pursuit of a case in which all avenues had been exhausted.
People are adult enough to understand that not all missing child investigations have a happy ending. When the police say they have taken it as far as they can that has to be respected. The other side of the coin must be respected too when they say there is further to go ... and I believe that is where SY and the government are at the moment.
It should also be remembered that the Portuguese government is also paying wages for this investigation and have given no indication to date of an inclination to stop doing so.
The adverse publicity to which you refer and indeed further abrogation of Madeleine McCann's human rights would certainly arise should it be discovered that the government had reneged on following through on active lines of enquiry in her case.
Well said, Brietta 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 18, 2016, 04:14:06 PM
The Express article is very restrained. No quotes from unnamed police sources, no quotes from friends of the family. No 'Kate and Gerry are encouraged' quotes. Just the plain unvarnished facts. Is that because Mitchell has departed, I wonder?.....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on September 18, 2016, 09:04:25 PM
Has any other paper taken up that story ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on September 18, 2016, 09:12:48 PM
It merely reflects that the Express and Star are too scared to allow comments.
Mind you, I'm sure if other papers run the story, comments will result.
Perhaps moderators have borne the brunt of the owner's austerity measures. I'm sure we can count on your positive response to the additional funding should you be permitted to respond on MSM sites.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on September 18, 2016, 09:48:39 PM
Perhaps moderators have borne the brunt of the owner's austerity measures. I'm sure we can count on your positive response to the additional funding should you be permitted to respond on MSM sites.
To what end ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on September 18, 2016, 09:55:44 PM
It merely reflects that the Express and Star are too scared to allow comments.
Mind you, I'm sure if other papers run the story, comments will result.
Comments may indeed result, but is that the pertinent point?
Unless SY and the Home Office are both a complete shambles, then the case has been made for an extension, with funding, and it has gained approval.
Presumably, someone on OG presented a case that valid lines of enquiry remained, and what was required to investigate them? Perhaps DCI Nicola Wall, but we don't know.
That almost certainly went higher up for approval. It might be Duthie, but that does not strike me as sufficiently high in SY.
Then the file/request went to the Home Office for approval and funds.
As to who approved this request, I have not got a clue, nor do I care.
What I am not seeing is some sort of conspiracy theory here, between OG, SY and the Home Office.
It is much easier to conclude, IMO, that OG/SY detailed further work and the cost thereof, and the Home Office looked at it and decided it was reasonable, therefore approved the proposal.
Of course, I have no idea what 'the proposal' actually is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Admin on September 18, 2016, 09:56:01 PM
Comments may indeed result, but is that the pertinent point?
Unless SY and the Home Office are both a complete shambles, then the case has been made for an extension, with funding, and it has gained approval.
Presumably, someone on OG presented a case that valid lines of enquiry remained, and what was required to investigate them? Perhaps DCI Nicola Wall, but we don't know.
That almost certainly went higher up for approval. It might be Duthie, but that does not strike me as sufficiently high in SY.
Then the file/request went to the Home Office for approval and funds.
As to who approved this request, I have not got a clue, nor do I care.
What I am not seeing is some sort of conspiracy theory here, between OG, SY and the Home Office.
It is much easier to conclude, IMO, that OG/SY detailed further work and the cost thereof, and the Home Office looked at it and decided it was reasonable, therefore approved the proposal.
Of course, I have no idea what 'the proposal' actually is.
What is more to the point, is how long will this investigation continue with nothing to show for it ?
It has been stated, several times in the press, according to 'sources', there remains one line of inquiry.
Nothing appears to be happening in Portugal, other than the wait for the Supreme Court decision on the Mccann's appeal.
Now if I were to be cynical, I would say the extension is more due to the appeal in the Supreme Court, to give the impression that the investigation is alive and kicking.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on September 18, 2016, 10:12:30 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 19, 2016, 01:31:44 PM
A little embroidery here;
The move will come as a relief to Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry as the fund they set up to find their daughter could soon be wiped out paying lawyers. http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/546526/Madeline-McCann-fund-boost-keep-hunt-alive-until-April
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on September 23, 2016, 10:24:59 PM
Theres always embrodery in mccann released i nfo...always
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on October 04, 2016, 09:25:39 PM
"Internet trolls who create derogatory hashtags or post doctored images to humiliate others could face prosecution in England and Wales" - BBC News.
The internet is like the wild west where the bandits were let loose and law and order had a tough time catching up ... if it ever did.
It is way past time that something was done to control the sheer nastiness targeting ordinary people and children which has been bad enough to cause irreversible harm, as self regulation is never going to happen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 10, 2016, 11:54:17 PM
Police deal with threats to life and property, and stalking, not net spats and disagreements
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 11, 2016, 12:51:58 AM
Police deal with threats to life and property, and stalking, not net spats and disagreements
I think you may be wrong on that one. The police uphold the law and the law appears to be considering this as more of a problem than you apparently do and might at long last be going to do something more about it.
Internet trolls targeted with new legal guidelines
Internet trolls who create derogatory hashtags or doctored images to humiliate others could face prosecution in England and Wales.
Inciting people to harass others online, known as virtual mobbing, could also result in court action, under new Crown Prosecution Service guidance.
The director of public prosecutions said it means the CPS would prosecute just as if offences occurred offline.
But she stressed this did not mean prosecutors could "stifle free speech".
The new guidance aims to help police identify online crimes more easily.
It also highlights those who post people's personal information, such as bank details - known as doxxing.
Speaking to BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Director of Public Prosecutions Alison Saunders said: "The internet's not an anonymous place where people can post without any consequences. People should think about their own conduct.
"If you are grossly abusive to people, if you are bullying or harassing people online, then we will prosecute in the same way as if you did it offline."
However, Ms Saunders said context will be an important factor in decisions - for example "if you're offensive, the legislation would say you have to be grossly offensive, and that's quite a high test".
'Hateful names'
One woman, who wished to remain anonymous, said she and her daughter, who has Down's Syndrome, had suffered such severe online abuse over the last six years that they had to move house three times.
The abuse started, she said, when a friend wrote a book about trolls - anonymously but mentioning her by name.
"The trolls photoshopped images of myself and my daughter on to pornography and posted it on Facebook. They have said I'm a paedophile and called her hateful names like mongoloid; they even set up a website in her name."
The woman believes the trolls kept getting hold of her details using official forms she submitted when complaining at the use of images of her daughter.
"Even after we moved, they have called us at three of four in the morning threatening to petrol-bomb our house if we will not give up the name of the author.
"It's been horrific - this trolling is not free speech; it's hate speech," she said.
She added that one of the men stood outside the family home and followed her daughter to school, taking pictures. The incidents are now being investigated by police.
'No escape from it'
Kevin Healey told the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme he had been abused online for five years over his autism campaign work.
He said: "Not even one troll has been prosecuted or jailed, even though I have made complaints to Twitter and the police.
"It's been a nightmare; it's been horrific - it doesn't go away. It's with you 24 hours and seven days a week, there's no escape from it".
Mr Healey said he doesn't think the changes will make any difference and wants changes to legislation in the UK - and abroad.
"With the laws in the UK, if someone is trolling you from outside the UK - and my last batch of trolls were from the US - the police said we can't do anything," he added.
'Sexting' ruling
The CPS says it will use "considerable caution" before charging those posting "grossly offensive" material.
The changes come after a report found that one in four teenagers is abused online over their sexual orientation, race, religion, gender or disability.
The CPS also said underage "sexting" between consenting children in a relationship should not be prosecuted, but cases which involve "exploitation, grooming or bullying" may lead to legal action.
Ms Saunders told the BBC: "If they are children, they are the same age, there's no suggestion or any coercion or bad motives, then we would not expect that case to be prosecuted. It shows you how careful you have to be about the context of it," she said.
Asked about whether guidelines on misogynistic hate crimes would be introduced, Ms Saunders said: "We probably need to think about it."
A new law on revenge porn - someone uploading explicit images or film of a former partner to humiliate or embarrass them - has led to the prosecution of 206 people across England and Wales since its introduction in April 2015.
The public policy statements on hate crime will be subject to public consultation for 13 weeks.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37601431
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 11, 2016, 02:17:28 AM
Youre deluded brietta (as is the cps) if you thnk police have the time and reaources to moniter all that Thats all
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 11, 2016, 02:28:38 PM
Youre deluded brietta (as is the cps) if you thnk police have the time and reaources to moniter all that Thats all
I would imagine there would be little requirement for the police to monitor very much of it if at all - except for training purposes. Those who have cause for complaint will no doubt bring any outrages to police attention who will then investigate to check if the law is being broken and take the appropriate action if it is.
By the way ... I hope you meant to say that my post was deluded and not me personally, as that is contrary to forum etiquette.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 11, 2016, 11:29:36 PM
Sorry Brietta, i have no idea what you are rabbitting on about
The cps can talk but its a far far cry from reality
People may be prosecuted forserious threats to life property and stalking, photoshopping pictures is not going to clam up the courts, trust me
It also belittles you alot to give me points for nothng...hey ho, do i look bothered???
Thats right
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 13, 2016, 07:47:48 PM
You may or may not have seen this today.
A largish yacht pulled into Titchmarsh Marina in Essex. The normal procedure is that the yacht radios ahead to find out which berth it is to use. The yacht did not make this radio call. It simply proceeded to a large jetty in the centre of the marina.
Seven men jumped out and headed to a nearby car park, where two cars were waiting. The men piled in and the cars sped off.
The reason this was noticed was because it was caught on CCTV.
Why post this on a Madeleine forum? This is an illustration that it is nigh-well impossible to seal off a country with a lot of harbours, whether that be the UK or Portugal.
Full story and the CCTV footage at http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2016-10-13/seven-men-sail-into-essex-marina-unannounced/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on October 13, 2016, 08:24:42 PM
A largish yacht pulled into Titchmarsh Marina in Essex. The normal procedure is that the yacht radios ahead to find out which berth it is to use. The yacht did not make this radio call. It simply proceeded to a large jetty in the centre of the marina.
Seven men jumped out and headed to a nearby car park, where two cars were waiting. The men piled in and the cars sped off.
The reason this was noticed was because it was caught on CCTV.
Why post this on a Madeleine forum? This is an illustration that it is nigh-well impossible to seal off a country with a lot of harbours, whether that be the UK or Portugal.
Full story and the CCTV footage at http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2016-10-13/seven-men-sail-into-essex-marina-unannounced/
The Marina and a boat were always suspect.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 18, 2016, 09:55:28 PM
Interesting list but it only mentions one sighting in Malta and there were 28. It doesn't mention the sighting walking around the bank in Molenbeek St John, nor the several in the Porto area of Portugal ... and these are the few I have noticed missing at a very quick glance
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 18, 2016, 11:25:11 PM
I have published this link on my blog under a heading of 'we are approaching the 10th anniversary so we need some stock stories packed in'.
Get used to it. You are going to see a lot more of this non 'news' in the next 7 months. Once upon a time it was what was used to wrap your fish and chips. Before the time you couldn't use it as wrapper. Before there was no fish in fish and chips.
I R getting old.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on October 19, 2016, 07:55:03 AM
Overwhelmed the investigators and significantly hampered the search.
I agree By appealng to almost every country that was the result
Chaos mayhem and waste of time not to mention harm to some children and their families vis a vis morocco and india and new zealand being forced to prove who they were!!!
Meanwhile the mccanns told the world in tv interviews not a single sighting was their daughter but still carried on
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on October 19, 2016, 11:48:33 PM
I agree By appealng to almost every country that was the result
Chaos mayhem and waste of time not to mention harm to some children and their families vis a vis morocco and india and new zealand being forced to prove who they were!!!
Meanwhile the mccanns told the world in tv interviews not a single sighting was their daughter but still carried on
Are you of the opinion the general public should be actively discouraged from contacting the police with possible leads or information regarding missing people because it could have an adverse effect on workloads?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 19, 2016, 11:53:22 PM
Are you of the opinion the general public should be actively discouraged from contacting the police with possible leads or information regarding missing people because it could have an adverse effect on workloads?
What do you think? appealing to all countries is GOING to GENERATE LOTS of false leads Which leads to a bunch of wasted manhours which are taken away from honed searches
Pls qute another case where ths has happened
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on October 19, 2016, 11:55:10 PM
Are you of the opinion the general public should be actively discouraged from contacting the police with possible leads or information regarding missing people because it could have an adverse effect on workloads?
I think restricting the search to the area around the Iberian peninsula may have helped.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on October 20, 2016, 12:27:22 AM
What do you think? appealing to all countries is GOING to GENERATE LOTS of false leads Which leads to a bunch of wasted manhours which are taken away from honed searches
Pls qute another case where ths has happened
Do you think the PJ officers personally flew abroad to check each & every sighting - or rather that the police in the individual countries actually checked matters out & reported back?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 20, 2016, 12:33:14 AM
Do you think the PJ officers personally flew abroad to check each & every sighting - or rather that the police in the individual countries actually checked matters out & reported back?
Appealing to the whole world harmed the search
Thats the point
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on October 20, 2016, 10:59:22 PM
Depeleted police sources from focused searches eleanor
And what if one of those sightings had been the special one?
The Police didn't bother to check them because Amaral had decided Madeleine was dead, and that the parents were involved. No proof, nothing to indicate that. But he didn't bother to check the sightings.
How disgusting is that !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 21, 2016, 12:07:22 AM
And what if one of those sightings had been the special one?
The Police didn't bother to check them because Amaral had decided Madeleine was dead, and that the parents were involved. No proof, nothing to indicate that. But he didn't bother to check the sightings.
How disgusting is that !
Cite pls
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on October 21, 2016, 01:05:17 AM
Maddie McCann hunt in numbers: Public’s 8,685 ‘sightings’ over 101 countries 18 Oct 2016
<B><i>Maddie McCann: Charting a history</B></i> Maddie McCann: Charting a history The nine-year search for Leicestershire youngster Madeleine McCann has involved an A to Z of police forces across the globe.
Potential sightings of the British three-year old – snatched in May 2007 in Portugal – total 8,685 across 101 countries and territories, a Freedom of Information request reveals.
Many were collated by Portuguese officers and stamped ‘NFA’ – No Further Action – as they believed the child was dead.
Since May 2011 the Metropolitan Police Service has collated reported sightings – which stretch from French Polynesia to New Zealand – under the auspices of Operation Grange.
There has been a reported sighting of Madeleine in the UK, on February 20, 2008 when a retired civil servant reported that a Portuguese couple who knocked on his door in Dorset had a blonde-haired child with them he was sure was the missing girl. The couple were never traced.
By Nick Hudson
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 21, 2016, 01:12:53 AM
Maddie McCann hunt in numbers: Public’s 8,685 ‘sightings’ over 101 countries 18 Oct 2016
<B><i>Maddie McCann: Charting a history</B></i> Maddie McCann: Charting a history The nine-year search for Leicestershire youngster Madeleine McCann has involved an A to Z of police forces across the globe.
Potential sightings of the British three-year old – snatched in May 2007 in Portugal – total 8,685 across 101 countries and territories, a Freedom of Information request reveals.
Many were collated by Portuguese officers and stamped ‘NFA’ – No Further Action – as they believed the child was dead.
Since May 2011 the Metropolitan Police Service has collated reported sightings – which stretch from French Polynesia to New Zealand – under the auspices of Operation Grange.
There has been a reported sighting of Madeleine in the UK, on February 20, 2008 when a retired civil servant reported that a Portuguese couple who knocked on his door in Dorset had a blonde-haired child with them he was sure was the missing girl. The couple were never traced.
By Nick Hudson
So another myth does NOT get started, does anyone know how many countries Madeleine was supposedly seen in?
This is a re-hash of the Madeleine-seen-in-101-countries by Antonella Lazzeri in The Sun.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 21, 2016, 01:34:51 AM
And what if one of those sightings had been the special one?
The Police didn't bother to check them because Amaral had decided Madeleine was dead, and that the parents were involved. No proof, nothing to indicate that. But he didn't bother to check the sightings.
How disgusting is that !
You attribute some sort of similar weight between the sightings. You think the police should have spent lots of time raising the paperwork etc. To investigate...
Quote
I inform you that today at about 13.15 I received a phone call from Mr Nicholas McEwen (resident in Workington, tel no. *****) informing me about a supposed sighting of Madeleine McCann. As the undersigned officer does not speak fluent English, the collaboration of Carla Romana Esteves, a translator was requested in order to register the call made in English.
The witness stated that he thinks he saw Madeleine McCann today at about 10.30, walking down Newlands Green street in Workington, in the north of England. Mr McEwen was walking up the same street when he passed the girl on the opposite pavement at a distance of 5 metres. The girl was accompanied by an individual known to the witness as Dane Bragt, who was "leading" the girl down the street. The girl appeared to be wearing make-up and was wearing a shirt and blue trousers. Her hair was arranged in two bunches. The witness heard the girl complaining, in English, to the individual named Dane Bragt.
The witness describes the individual as being about 1.7m in height, aged about 30, slim build, with a short beard and short brown hair. The individual lives about 2 km from the site in the Westfield Drive area, the witness does not know the exact address. However, the witness knows that the individual often frequents the house of Joanne O'Neill, situated at No.** Newlands Gardens, Workington. He says that Joanne O'Neill has lived there for almost 10 years and has a daughter with medium length hair (to her shoulders) dark brown in colour, therefore the witness is certain that the girl he saw is not Joanne O'Neill's daughter.
When questioned about the reasons he thinks the girl was Madeleine McCann, the witness says it is because the girl was really similar to Madeleine McCann and because she was in the company of this individual who had nothing to do with Joanne O'Neill's daughter as well as the fact that he has not seen Mrs O'Neill's daughter for some time.
Signed
Inspector Costa and Carla Esteves
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on October 21, 2016, 10:12:10 AM
Who would have believed that the parents of a missing child would ever be criticised for appealing to the public for information. And yet even that perfectly normal procedure has been turned into a stick to beat the McCanns with.
It would appear their 'crime' in doing that, was not to be able to see into the future and know exactly what the response from an appeal for information would result in!
Of course if they had not made appeals that would have been wrong too - and there would be those who would have claimed it was because they already knew where their daughter was.
IIRC sceptic Pat Brown criticised them for making no direct appeals to the public. Something else she got completely wrong.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't - every step of the way.
Pathetic.
IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 21, 2016, 01:03:22 PM
I've always found this one quite interesting, John.
What are the odds that a journalist was able to track down an unknown family photographed travelling on a road somewhere in Morocco weeks after the event and within days of the photograph being published?
'That's not Madeleine in the photo, it's our little Bushra'.
Byline: By John Bingham and Sam Marsden 27 September 2007
Journalists track down 'mystery' girl to remote village in Morocco
HOPES that a girl photographed in Morocco could be Madeleine McCann were dashed yesterday after British journalists said they had tracked her down.
Reporters descended on the remote hillside village of Zinat in the north of the country after the image of a young girl being carried on a Moroccan woman's back was flashed around the world as a possible sighting of the missing four-year-old.
But it emerged the girl in the photograph is believed to be five-year-old Bushra Binhisa, the daughter of an olive farmer.
Evening Standard journalist Rashid Razaq, who flew to Morocco from London, said he saw the youngster yesterday.
He said, "She has got a resemblance to Madeleine but when you see her properly, it is obvious it isn't her."
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said, "Clearly, if these reports that the girl in the photograph isn't Madeleine are true, it is disappointing news.
"Clearly, the search for Madeleine will continue and I would appeal for everyone to refocus their efforts to achieve her safe return."
The photograph taken by Spanish tourist Clara Torres on August 31 was passed to the McCanns' lawyers on Tuesday and forwarded to experts for analysis.
Ms Torres came forward with the grainy image after a spate of reports of possible sightings of Madeleine in Morocco made her re-examine her photographs. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/'That's+not+Madeleine+in+the+photo,+it's+our+little+Bushra'.-a0169171750
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on October 21, 2016, 11:27:36 PM
I've always found this one quite interesting, John.
What are the odds that a journalist was able to track down an unknown family photographed travelling on a road somewhere in Morocco weeks after the event and within days of the photograph being published?
'That's not Madeleine in the photo, it's our little Bushra'.
Byline: By John Bingham and Sam Marsden 27 September 2007
Journalists track down 'mystery' girl to remote village in Morocco
HOPES that a girl photographed in Morocco could be Madeleine McCann were dashed yesterday after British journalists said they had tracked her down.
Reporters descended on the remote hillside village of Zinat in the north of the country after the image of a young girl being carried on a Moroccan woman's back was flashed around the world as a possible sighting of the missing four-year-old.
But it emerged the girl in the photograph is believed to be five-year-old Bushra Binhisa, the daughter of an olive farmer.
Evening Standard journalist Rashid Razaq, who flew to Morocco from London, said he saw the youngster yesterday.
He said, "She has got a resemblance to Madeleine but when you see her properly, it is obvious it isn't her."
Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said, "Clearly, if these reports that the girl in the photograph isn't Madeleine are true, it is disappointing news.
"Clearly, the search for Madeleine will continue and I would appeal for everyone to refocus their efforts to achieve her safe return."
The photograph taken by Spanish tourist Clara Torres on August 31 was passed to the McCanns' lawyers on Tuesday and forwarded to experts for analysis.
Ms Torres came forward with the grainy image after a spate of reports of possible sightings of Madeleine in Morocco made her re-examine her photographs. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/'That's+not+Madeleine+in+the+photo,+it's+our+little+Bushra'.-a0169171750
It's explained in the McCanns versus the media documentary. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1776.0
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 22, 2016, 10:35:53 PM
MCCANNS THANK THE SUN Official Find Madeleine McCann campaign says The Sun has kept hunt for missing daughter alive The Facebook group searching for Maddie said it was "extremely grateful" for the support BY PAUL HARPER 22nd October 2016, 11:36 am
MADELINE McCann’s parents have thanked The Sun for keeping the search for their missing daughter alive.
A Facebook campaign supported by her mum and dad highlighted The Sun’s article revealing that people across the world are still looking for her.
The Official Find Madeleine Campaign has now posted a link to our story, saying: “It’s comforting to know people are still looking for Madeleine. We are extremely grateful for your support. Thank you.”
Kelly Green posted: “Always thinking about Madeleine and her family. In my prayers. Never give up!”
Campaign organisers are endorsed by Maddie’s parents Kate and Gerry of Rothley, Leics.
Their three-year-old daughter vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal’s Prai da Luz in May 2007.
They have never given up hope of finding the youngster, who would now be 13, alive.
Potential sightings of the British three-year old – snatched in 2007 in Portugal – total 8,685 across 101 countries and territories, according to figures obtained by The Sun via Freedom of Information.
Many of the sightings were collated by Portuguese cops and stamped “NFA” – No Further Action. They believed the youngster, left, was dead, compounding the despair of parents Kate and Gerry.
Since May 2011 the Met police has collated reported sightings under Operation Grange.
These have been revealed exclusively by The Sun. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2028106/official-find-madeleine-mccann-campaign-says-the-sun-has-kept-hunt-for-missing-daughter-alive/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 22, 2016, 10:59:55 PM
Mccanns thank the sun Rivetting news I wouldnt
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on October 22, 2016, 11:44:13 PM
Something must be happening...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 22, 2016, 11:54:56 PM
MCCANNS THANK THE SUN Official Find Madeleine McCann campaign says The Sun has kept hunt for missing daughter alive The Facebook group searching for Maddie said it was "extremely grateful" for the support BY PAUL HARPER 22nd October 2016, 11:36 am
MADELINE McCann’s parents have thanked The Sun for keeping the search for their missing daughter alive.
A Facebook campaign supported by her mum and dad highlighted The Sun’s article revealing that people across the world are still looking for her.
The Official Find Madeleine Campaign has now posted a link to our story, saying: “It’s comforting to know people are still looking for Madeleine. We are extremely grateful for your support. Thank you.”
Kelly Green posted: “Always thinking about Madeleine and her family. In my prayers. Never give up!”
Campaign organisers are endorsed by Maddie’s parents Kate and Gerry of Rothley, Leics.
Their three-year-old daughter vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal’s Prai da Luz in May 2007.
They have never given up hope of finding the youngster, who would now be 13, alive.
Potential sightings of the British three-year old – snatched in 2007 in Portugal – total 8,685 across 101 countries and territories, according to figures obtained by The Sun via Freedom of Information.
Many of the sightings were collated by Portuguese cops and stamped “NFA” – No Further Action. They believed the youngster, left, was dead, compounding the despair of parents Kate and Gerry.
Since May 2011 the Met police has collated reported sightings under Operation Grange.
These have been revealed exclusively by The Sun. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2028106/official-find-madeleine-mccann-campaign-says-the-sun-has-kept-hunt-for-missing-daughter-alive/
That is old news, nobody is looking any more as it is almost certain she is deceased and never left the Algarve.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on October 23, 2016, 01:01:19 AM
I have posted the full article on the Portugal's Missing Children board. (subject to approval)
I love the caveat in the following bit snipped from the article. "For now, the estranged father of the child - resident in France - is not a suspect". Apparently they [the cops] are using sniffer dogs. They clearly don't read this forum.................. ?{)(**
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on October 25, 2016, 12:40:53 AM
I love the caveat in the following bit snipped from the article. "For now, the estranged father of the child - resident in France - is not a suspect". Apparently they [the cops] are using sniffer dogs. They clearly don't read this forum.................. ?{)(**
Deorr Kunz Jr. William Tyrrell Raine Peterson Noah Chamberlain Issac Leuewenberger
Guess how many of these children the sniffer dogs tracked/located?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on October 25, 2016, 07:55:19 AM
Deorr Kunz Jr. William Tyrrell Raine Peterson Noah Chamberlain Issac Leuewenberger
Guess how many of these children the sniffer dogs tracked/located?
Dunno. Do you have a comprehensive list so I can do my own comparisons? I trust that method more than the being spoonfed someone elses prejudices method.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on November 04, 2016, 12:52:52 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37871157 Not Madeleine-like in the slightest, but there is a minor reference to a cadaver dog.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on November 05, 2016, 12:09:47 AM
Ms Hodgkiss, pictured with her daughter Nina, said the family are indebted to the charity Missing People for its help
Kate McCann says every day brings fresh hope that her missing daughter Madeleine will be found.
Ms McCann, whose daughter has been missing since 2007, said she still believes that every new day will be the one to end her torment.
The former GP revealed her continued heartache during an impassioned speech as she joined forces with the mother of murdered Alice Gross to launch a new charity.
The appeal, Find Every Child, aims to raise money so the charity Missing People can reach out to the thousands of youngsters who disappear each year.
Speaking at the launch event in London, Ms McCann said: 'We go to bed every night with the agonising feeling that just maybe tomorrow we will find something to lead us back to Madeleine. To let us know what happened. To give us hope.'
Ms McCann shared the stage at the Corinthia Hotel with Ros Hodgkiss, whose 14-year-old daughter Alice was found dead in September 2014 after she went missing for five weeks.
Together, the mothers - united it grief over the loss of their daughters - highlighted the plight of 140,000 youngsters who go missing in Britain each year.
Ms McCann, an ambassador for Missing People, then made an impromptu speech in which she urged the public to give their support.
'When my little girl first disappeared, on that horrendous night that changed our lives forever, I could never have imagined that nearly 10 years later we would still be in the same position.
'That I would be stood here in front of you tonight talking about the issue and how important it is that we look for each and every missing child.
'Giving hope is what Missing People do day in and day out. Please help this wonderful charity in their ambitious goal to Find Every Child.'
Ms Hodgkiss also relived the nightmare of her daughter's disappearance and murder, adding that the family are indebted to the charity for its help.
She said: 'We had access to their 24 hour helpline to help us deal with the ongoing crisis of her disappearance.
'Missing People also provided specialized trauma counselling to us, which helped us manage the immediate aftermath of Alice's disappearance prior to the news of her death.'
She said it was still hard to express the 'enormity' of their loss.
She added: 'The one thing we can be certain of is that our lives can never be the same again.
'But Missing People helped me, and I know that they will help other parents faced with the disorienting mayhem of a child going missing. Find every child is one way of doing that.'
Madeleine, three, vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal's Praia da Luz nearly 10 years ago in May 2007.
Ms McCann and her heart doctor husband Gerry, both 48, from Rothley, Leicestershire, believe their daughter – who would now be aged 13 – could still be alive.
Her family have been buoyed up by Scotland Yard's pledge to continue searching for Madeleine for at least another five months.
Schoolgirl Alice never returned to her home in Hanwell, West London, after going for a walk in August 2014.
Her Latvian killer Arnis Zalkalns , who hung himself, had been able to live freely in Britain despite a conviction for murdering his wife in Latvia.
Continuing her plea, Alice's mother described the time of Alice's disappearnace as 'an unbearable period of shock and suspended grief.'
In a reference to Ms McCann, she added: 'But there are families and friends who have had people missing for months, years, decades.'
She paid tribute to her daughter as 'a vibrant girl, full of life and energy, quirky and funny, smart and pretty.' She is helping to repair her life by singing in the Missing People choir – music was her daughter's passion.
Jo Youle, charity CEO, said: 'If every vulnerable child who went missing last year in the UK were together they would fill Wembley Stadium – twice.
The number of children we are desperately searching for increased by 60 per cent this year. We have the means to help far more children.
However our team is absolutely stretched to capacity. If we don't urgently raise more funds, this year alone hundreds of vulnerable children will not be found.'
She said the fundraising event was made possible thanks to the support of players of the People's Postcode Lottery, Clear Channel and Royal Mail.
The event took place at the Corinthia Hotel in central London in front of guests including Sir Trevor McDonald, Fiona Phillips and actress Monica Dolan. To support the appeal, visit the campaign page.
Names 1,2,4, and 5 have Jewish elements. Am not sure about number 3
Nothing to do with being Jewish, Sadie. The last 3 names on the list were children who had wandered. Two were found alive & one dead. The whereabouts of 1 & 2 are currently unknown.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on November 06, 2016, 09:48:13 PM
No need. If I am right then time, hopefully, will prove it to you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 08, 2016, 02:43:03 PM
The UK's finest make a mess of things again;
Numerous errors were made in Scotland Yard's investigation into paedophile allegations against VIPs, an independent review has found. The decision to abandon Operation Midland should have been taken "much earlier", Sir Richard Henriques said. He found "grave" errors in the handling of historical sex crime probes against high profile figures. Five officers have been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission as a result. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37912886
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 08, 2016, 03:13:32 PM
Numerous errors were made in Scotland Yard's investigation into paedophile allegations against VIPs, an independent review has found. The decision to abandon Operation Midland should have been taken "much earlier", Sir Richard Henriques said. He found "grave" errors in the handling of historical sex crime probes against high profile figures. Five officers have been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission as a result. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37912886
I wonder if that is because of prejudice ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on November 08, 2016, 05:32:47 PM
Numerous errors were made in Scotland Yard's investigation into paedophile allegations against VIPs, an independent review has found. The decision to abandon Operation Midland should have been taken "much earlier", Sir Richard Henriques said. He found "grave" errors in the handling of historical sex crime probes against high profile figures. Five officers have been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission as a result. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37912886
Any true victims must be as sickened by the review's findings as the officers who are being investigated for doing what must have been a very difficult job.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 08, 2016, 06:04:46 PM
Any true victims must be as sickened by the review's findings as the officers who are being investigated for doing what must have been a very difficult job.
The review found 43 failings in Operation Midland, including believing the complainant, a man known as "Nick", for too long; one officer announcing that Nick's claims were "credible and true"; and applying for search warrants with flawed information.
The Met have confirmed that Nick is now being investigated for allegedly attempting to pervert the course of justice.
Sir Richard said: "The principal cause of the many failures in this investigation was poor judgement and a failure to accurately evaluate known facts and to react to them.
"A major contributing factor was the culture that 'victims' must be believed."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37912886
I think the danger here must lie in the possibility that there will be a huge backwards step which will again make it difficult for real victims of historical abuse to come forward.
Quote The "UK's finest" made numerous errors in the investigation into accusations of VIP paedophiles ... an independent review has determined exactly what those mistakes were - they will be learned from and steps taken to reduce the chance of similar future occurrences.
Five heads have rolled.
What sort of review was conducted into the initial inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance and how many heads rolled as a result? None, that I can recall.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 08, 2016, 06:37:15 PM
The review found 43 failings in Operation Midland, including believing the complainant, a man known as "Nick", for too long; one officer announcing that Nick's claims were "credible and true"; and applying for search warrants with flawed information.
The Met have confirmed that Nick is now being investigated for allegedly attempting to pervert the course of justice.
Sir Richard said: "The principal cause of the many failures in this investigation was poor judgement and a failure to accurately evaluate known facts and to react to them.
"A major contributing factor was the culture that 'victims' must be believed."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37912886
I think the danger here must lie in the possibility that there will be a huge backwards step which will again make it difficult for real victims of historical abuse to come forward.
Quote The "UK's finest" made numerous errors in the investigation into accusations of VIP paedophiles ... an independent review has determined exactly what those mistakes were - they will be learned from and steps taken to reduce the chance of similar future occurrences.
Five heads have rolled.
What sort of review was conducted into the initial inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance and how many heads rolled as a result? None, that I can recall.
I posted the story because some people's hero-worship of the Metropolitan Police is incomprehensible to me. They are human beings and make mistakes as we all do. If they fail to do their jobs properly they are disciplined.
I have no idea why you think there should have been a review into the initial inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance. According to José de Magalhaes e Menezes;
In summary, it is notorious that the PJ spared no efforts in the sense of making exceptional technical, human and financial means available to find the child and to discover the truth of facts http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 08, 2016, 08:15:04 PM
The review found 43 failings in Operation Midland, including believing the complainant, a man known as "Nick", for too long; one officer announcing that Nick's claims were "credible and true"; and applying for search warrants with flawed information.
The Met have confirmed that Nick is now being investigated for allegedly attempting to pervert the course of justice.
Sir Richard said: "The principal cause of the many failures in this investigation was poor judgement and a failure to accurately evaluate known facts and to react to them.
"A major contributing factor was the culture that 'victims' must be believed."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37912886
I think the danger here must lie in the possibility that there will be a huge backwards step which will again make it difficult for real victims of historical abuse to come forward.
Quote The "UK's finest" made numerous errors in the investigation into accusations of VIP paedophiles ... an independent review has determined exactly what those mistakes were - they will be learned from and steps taken to reduce the chance of similar future occurrences.
Five heads have rolled.
What sort of review was conducted into the initial inquiry into Madeleine McCann's disappearance and how many heads rolled as a result? None, that I can recall.
Five heads have rolled? Stretching a point aren't we? The report says: "Five officers have been referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) following the review". No mention of the findings of the review by the IPCC or even if it has taken place let alone a punishment as a result.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: mercury on November 08, 2016, 09:03:18 PM
Terribly difficult subject matter to get your head around IMO if youre a layman ie The justice system and who and what to trust And the media always play devils advocate it seems
Pass
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on November 10, 2016, 10:28:09 PM
Translation & another previous report on Yeremi Vargas board. Looks like the guilty party may have been a local & not the 2 Scots + white van.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on November 26, 2016, 11:18:38 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38111636
UK photographer David Hamilton dies aged 83
"The controversial British photographer David Hamilton, best known for nude images of young girls, has died at his home in Paris at the age of 83.
The circumstances of his death are unclear. Some media reports suggest he killed himself.
Hamilton had recently denied accusations that he had in the past raped some of his teenage models.
He made his name in the 1960s with soft-focus pictures of young girls published by major magazines."
As yet there is no connection to either Madeleine McCann or Portugal. With another story blossoming in UK media about young footballers being sexually abused by trainers, it paints a picture of what attitudes were like, back in the 'good old days'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 26, 2016, 12:27:24 PM
"The controversial British photographer David Hamilton, best known for nude images of young girls, has died at his home in Paris at the age of 83.
The circumstances of his death are unclear. Some media reports suggest he killed himself.
Hamilton had recently denied accusations that he had in the past raped some of his teenage models.
He made his name in the 1960s with soft-focus pictures of young girls published by major magazines."
As yet there is no connection to either Madeleine McCann or Portugal. With another story blossoming in UK media about young footballers being sexually abused by trainers, it paints a picture of what attitudes were like, back in the 'good old days'.
I think the difference when I was a child was that people didn't have the means to travel like they do now. I was told by other children who to 'stay away from' in the village where I grew up. In my first job I was told never to be alone in an office with the manager.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 03, 2016, 11:11:00 AM
Here is a link to one Mccann backer , and a breakdown of his rubbish.
Portuguese police chiefs have refused to rule out a new lead in the Madeleine McCann case which claims she was snatched by a gang of European traffickers in 2007.
Policia Judiciaria (PJ) today declined to make any official comment on the weekend trafficking claims being investigated by Scotland Yard.
However bosses say they are ‘completely in tune’ with British detectives and their relationship with the UK police team involved is ‘easy and fluid.’
Funding for the new probe is expected to run out in April, when the case will be reviewed again.
Before this weekend’s trafficking revelations, it was thought the botched burglary claims formed the final line of inquiry.
But Portugal’s Attorney General’s office confirmed today that the last of six ‘letters of request’ Portuguese police had been asked to work on, which is thought to have contained the results of DNA tests, was only completed and sent back on October 25.
Officers in Faro also revealed that they had been expecting to receive a new rogatory letter asking them to arrange a fresh interrogation of four locals questioned as official suspects in July 2014 as part of the botched burglary theory – but so far none has been forthcoming. There is still work to do. Not all possibilities have been dismissed.
‘There is one line of investigation to be explored and we and Scotland Yard are completely in tune with each other.
‘We are both working on the same line of investigation and are in close contact.’
It was revealed at the weekend that Metropolitan Police officers have briefed Whitehall officials on the progress of the case, according to The Sun.
Reports say that investigators feel it is the ‘last throw of the dice’ in their search for her.
A senior Lisbon-based PJ officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said: ‘Although we are talking from a formal point of view about two different investigations which are independent of each other, the contacts between the two teams are easy and frequent.
The PJ previously made no secret of their rejection of a theory which claimed Madeleine was kidnapped from her Algarve holiday flat during a bungled burglary.
The latest claims, which are based on a tip that the then three-year-old was taken by traffickers, has seen Scotland Yard given more money to investigate. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A leak for a leak?
ETA a more detailed report in the Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4001976/Madeleine-McCann-kidnapped-European-child-trafficking-ring-fear-British-Portuguese-police-forces-say-focusing-theory.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on December 05, 2016, 04:36:10 PM
Portuguese police chiefs have refused to rule out a new lead in the Madeleine McCann case which claims she was snatched by a gang of European traffickers in 2007.
Policia Judiciaria (PJ) today declined to make any official comment on the weekend trafficking claims being investigated by Scotland Yard.
However bosses say they are ‘completely in tune’ with British detectives and their relationship with the UK police team involved is ‘easy and fluid.’
Funding for the new probe is expected to run out in April, when the case will be reviewed again.
Before this weekend’s trafficking revelations, it was thought the botched burglary claims formed the final line of inquiry.
But Portugal’s Attorney General’s office confirmed today that the last of six ‘letters of request’ Portuguese police had been asked to work on, which is thought to have contained the results of DNA tests, was only completed and sent back on October 25.
Officers in Faro also revealed that they had been expecting to receive a new rogatory letter asking them to arrange a fresh interrogation of four locals questioned as official suspects in July 2014 as part of the botched burglary theory – but so far none has been forthcoming. There is still work to do. Not all possibilities have been dismissed.
‘There is one line of investigation to be explored and we and Scotland Yard are completely in tune with each other.
‘We are both working on the same line of investigation and are in close contact.’
It was revealed at the weekend that Metropolitan Police officers have briefed Whitehall officials on the progress of the case, according to The Sun.
Reports say that investigators feel it is the ‘last throw of the dice’ in their search for her.
A senior Lisbon-based PJ officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said: ‘Although we are talking from a formal point of view about two different investigations which are independent of each other, the contacts between the two teams are easy and frequent.
The PJ previously made no secret of their rejection of a theory which claimed Madeleine was kidnapped from her Algarve holiday flat during a bungled burglary.
The latest claims, which are based on a tip that the then three-year-old was taken by traffickers, has seen Scotland Yard given more money to investigate. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A leak for a leak?
There seems to be an ambivalent attitude toward what constitutes "official comment".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on December 05, 2016, 06:56:34 PM
Then there's this................
http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 05, 2016, 07:57:02 PM
Smiffy would have you believe that all these latest news stories have been completely invented by the McCanns and Clarence Mitchell, right down to the quotes ascribed to sources with the Met and the PJ. My question would be - if that's true, what sort of an impression do the McCanns think they are giving Operation Grange by concocting all these tall tales? Not a very favourable one surely? Which then leads one to think that they must be very stupid people indeed, either that or perhaps just maybe they are not responsible for these reports after all...?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 06, 2016, 01:05:19 AM
Smiffy would have you believe that all these latest news stories have been completely invented by the McCanns and Clarence Mitchell, right down to the quotes ascribed to sources with the Met and the PJ. My question would be - if that's true, what sort of an impression do the McCanns think they are giving Operation Grange by concocting all these tall tales? Not a very favourable one surely? Which then leads one to think that they must be very stupid people indeed, either that or perhaps just maybe they are not responsible for these reports after all...?
I've just asked B/S on another forum to explain the thinking behind his opinion & will report back if I am deemed worthy of his response.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on December 06, 2016, 08:24:56 AM
Blacksmith and his fan club seem to have convinced themselves that the Met have the McCanns in their sights (tick tock and all that) so for the McCanns to invent stories for the press which tell blatant lies about Operation Grange would have to be verging on insanity. I'm sure he will manage to conveniently overlook your question Misty.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on December 06, 2016, 09:05:19 AM
Smiffy would have you believe that all these latest news stories have been completely invented by the McCanns and Clarence Mitchell, right down to the quotes ascribed to sources with the Met and the PJ. My question would be - if that's true, what sort of an impression do the McCanns think they are giving Operation Grange by concocting all these tall tales? Not a very favourable one surely? Which then leads one to think that they must be very stupid people indeed, either that or perhaps just maybe they are not responsible for these reports after all...?
I guess the Met and PJ would be very disappointed to hear their relationship was good.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on December 06, 2016, 09:20:30 AM
It was part of the story which you seemed to think the Met and PJ would be upset about.
Sorry, I'm having comprehension issues. I don't understand what you are driving at. My point was that the Met and the PJ would find it deeply suspicious of the McCanns to be planting false stories about their activities in the press. What your last two posts are trying to say completely escapes me but that's no doubt because I'm not very smart.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on December 16, 2016, 06:21:29 PM
UK papers apologise to Robert Murat, again IN NEWS · 15-12-2016 14:21:00 · 0 COMMENTS British national and Algarve resident Robert Murat has received yet another public apology from the UK press following articles published back in June.
Under “Clarifications and corrections”, the Daily Mail on Monday followed the Sun’s example by issuing an apology to Mr. Murat. The tabloid had on 19 June published an article ‘Clement Freud drank with Maddie suspect Robert Murat in Praia da Luz bar – and his local pub was dubbed the Plough and Paedo’ in which it reported claims made in “another newspaper” that Robert Murat had known Sir Clement Freud in the Portuguese town where Madeleine McCann went missing. The above article has since been deleted from the Daily Mail official website. The Daily Mail further admitted that “in fact, Mr Murat, who was totally cleared of any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, never met or had any connection with the alleged paedophile ex-MP. We are happy to make this clear and apologise to Mr Murat for any suggestion he was involved in wrongdoing.” Contacted by The Portugal News, Mr Murat preferred not to comment on this latest development. This follows a similar apology published on 29 October by The Sun, in which it wrote that “on 19 June we published an article on the late Clement Freud and on Madeleine McCann. The article also referred to Robert Murat who was totally cleared of any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. We would like to make it clear that Mr Murat never met or had any connection with Clement Freud. It was not our intention to suggest any wrongdoing by Mr Murat. We apologise to Mr Murat.” Back in 2008, Mr Murat received £600,000 in compensation after his lawyers brokered a settlement with several British newspapers, including The Sun and the Daily Mail. Mr Murat said at the time “the newspapers in this case brought about the total and utter devastation of me and my family’s life and caused immense distress. “I’m pleased they have admitted the falsity of their allegations and I can start to rebuild my life. “I can emerge from this action vindicated with the recognition and acknowledgement that what was said against me was wholly untrue.”
UK papers apologise to Robert Murat, again IN NEWS · 15-12-2016 14:21:00 · 0 COMMENTS British national and Algarve resident Robert Murat has received yet another public apology from the UK press following articles published back in June.
Under “Clarifications and corrections”, the Daily Mail on Monday followed the Sun’s example by issuing an apology to Mr. Murat. The tabloid had on 19 June published an article ‘Clement Freud drank with Maddie suspect Robert Murat in Praia da Luz bar – and his local pub was dubbed the Plough and Paedo’ in which it reported claims made in “another newspaper” that Robert Murat had known Sir Clement Freud in the Portuguese town where Madeleine McCann went missing. The above article has since been deleted from the Daily Mail official website. The Daily Mail further admitted that “in fact, Mr Murat, who was totally cleared of any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, never met or had any connection with the alleged paedophile ex-MP. We are happy to make this clear and apologise to Mr Murat for any suggestion he was involved in wrongdoing.” Contacted by The Portugal News, Mr Murat preferred not to comment on this latest development. This follows a similar apology published on 29 October by The Sun, in which it wrote that “on 19 June we published an article on the late Clement Freud and on Madeleine McCann. The article also referred to Robert Murat who was totally cleared of any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. We would like to make it clear that Mr Murat never met or had any connection with Clement Freud. It was not our intention to suggest any wrongdoing by Mr Murat. We apologise to Mr Murat.” Back in 2008, Mr Murat received £600,000 in compensation after his lawyers brokered a settlement with several British newspapers, including The Sun and the Daily Mail. Mr Murat said at the time “the newspapers in this case brought about the total and utter devastation of me and my family’s life and caused immense distress. “I’m pleased they have admitted the falsity of their allegations and I can start to rebuild my life. “I can emerge from this action vindicated with the recognition and acknowledgement that what was said against me was wholly untrue.”
It leaves you wondering where the association story was sourced from in the first place.
Tabloids aren't best known for fact-checking, Misty.
They probably just had a search menu for certain words (one of which being PdL) in their database and hey presto: another "article" banged out in 20 minutes.
As long as they fill the allotted space for a few quid, I don't think many of the hacks actually care.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on December 18, 2016, 06:22:45 PM
Tabloids aren't best known for fact-checking, Misty.
They probably just had a search menu for certain words (one of which being PdL) in their database and hey presto: another "article" banged out in 20 minutes.
As long as they fill the allotted space for a few quid, I don't think many of the hacks actually care.
We've actually covered this on the forum.
The start was the documentary in mid-year about Sir CF's antics. The Sun appears to have then picked out that the McCanns ate with Sir CF in a villa in Luz after Madeleine disappeared, so there is now a Sir CF <> McCanns <>Luz<> paedo opportunity. Antonella Lazzeri and A N Other from The Sun were despatched to Luz. The next link is the Plough, at the centre of some paedo upset in 2005, two years before the MBM incident. It looks like the Sun enquired there, and got info from a bar worker that both Murat and Sir CF had visited the Pig's Head. Mr Hurst, landlord of the Pig's Head, has explained that he got sand-bagged by The Sun duo, who enquired if Sir CF had ever been in the Pig's Head (which he had on one occasion). The Sun team then asked if he, Mr Hurst, knew Murat, and Mr Hurst said he was on nodding terms.
This got printed as Murat and Sir CF as drinking buddies, with the Plough and the Pig's Head as local paedo centres.
It's interesting that Murat got an apology, but it seems there was no correction re the Plough or the Pig's Head.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on December 26, 2016, 07:37:17 PM
Kate McCann lays presents in Madeleine's bedroom as she faces her 10th Christmas without her daughter
Madeleine McCann disappeared in May 2007 while on holiday in Portugal
Her mother Kate McCann faces her 10th Christmas without her daughter
She will lay presents in her daughter's bedroom in Rothley, Leicestershire
By Tracey Kandohla For Mailonline PUBLISHED: 21:30, 24 December 2016
Kate McCann will lay presents in her daughter Madeleine's bedroom on Christmas morning and hopes one day she will be back home to open them. A stocking full of gifts will be kept in Maddie's pretty pink room which has remained untouched since she vanished nearly a decade ago. It has become a shrine to her and is full of photos, drawings, and untouched Christmas and birthday presents. Mrs McCann's gesture comes after she told how she bitterly misses sharing Maddie's excitement during the festive season and listening to her singing carols.
The anguished mother, who faces her milestone 10th Christmas without her eldest child, said the occasion would be 'tinged with pain and longing.' She said: 'She should be here and we should be celebrating with her.' But ex-GP Mrs McCann and heart doctor husband Gerry, both 48, will try and make it 'as happy a family occasion as possible' for the sake of their 11-year-old twins Sean and Amelie. Maddie's parents have never given up hope that she could still be alive. She would now be aged 13.
And to their daughter's kidnapper or their friends and family they say: 'Somebody knows. We just hope they find the courage and compassion to let us know too.' The brave couple, in a new posting on the official Find Maddie website, said they hope support from others will 'keep us strong and afloat during the difficult months to come.' They have previously said: 'We have not lost hope that we may get to celebrate another Christmas with her. 'If anything can drive us on, that most definitely will. The urge to look for Madeleine absolutely hasn't changed at all.' The family are expected to have a quiet family Christmas at home in Rothley, Leicestershire.
Prayers will be said for Maddie during the village church's Christmas Day service and a candle for the missing teenager burns round the clock beside the war memorial.
Scotland Yard are chasing up a final 'last throw of the dice' lead that three-year-old Maddie was snatched by child traffickers during a bungled burglary at a holiday apartment in Portugal's Praia da Luz in May 2007. Mr and Mrs McCann say in the shortest and simplest of festive postings, with no mention of the Met Police's failed hunt to find their daughter: 'This Christmas marks our tenth without Madeleine. 'There are no words really. The year ahead too is one which we never could have believed or contemplated we would have to face.'
They thank everyone 'who hasn't forgotten about Madeleine for their help and continued prayers.' They add: 'The support we continue to have from so many people, friends and strangers, will we're sure, keep us strong and afloat during the difficult months to come.' The McCanns, in their online message decorated with Christmas trees and stars, wish their supporters 'hope, joy and peace' for the New Year.
Presumably Tracey Kandola was told to cobble together another non-story out of whatever meagre scraps she could find.
I suppose it acts as a barometer, letting us know that there is no news of any significance.
And yet some people (even some on this forum) tend to regard these stories as a sign that big news unfavourable to the McCanns is about to break! The last time it happened (beginning December) being a case in point.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on January 07, 2017, 07:20:34 AM
TRAGIC TOTS
Toddler twins die just days apart after being found floating in family swimming pool during Christmas holiday Robbie and Charli Manago, aged just 23 months, were laid to rest in tiny white coffins today
BY JENNY AWFORD 6th January 2017, 8:14 pm
A PAIR of twin toddlers died just days apart after being found floating in their family’s pool during the Christmas holiday.
Robbie and Charli Manago, aged just 23 months, were laid to rest in tiny white coffins today during a heartbreaking funeral service.
Robert and Fleur Manago were only looking away for a very brief moment when the tragedy struck
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on January 08, 2017, 01:15:46 AM
Portugal father of democracy Mario Soares dies aged 92
Mr Soares headed Portugal's first democratically elected government in 1976
Ex-Portuguese President Mario Soares, regarded as a father of the country's democracy, has died at the age of 92.
Mr Soares was prime minister between 1976 and 1978, in the aftermath of the Carnation Revolution that ended decades of right-wing dictatorship.
A Socialist, he returned as PM in the early 1980s and served as president between 1986 and 1996.
He had been admitted to hospital in Lisbon last month following a "general worsening of his health", doctors said.
He had shown signs of improvement, but later fell into a deep coma from which he never recovered. The hospital, however, has not revealed the exact cause of death.
After flirting briefly with communism at university and then embracing Portugal's democratic movement as a Socialist, Mr Soares was jailed 12 times and then exiled for his political activities during the dictatorship of Antonio de Oliveira Salazar.
Mr Soares played a key role after the 1974 Carnation Revolution, a military coup that put an end to 48 years of Salazar rule.
This file photo taken on 2 March, 1975 shows General Secretary of Portuguese Socialist Party and Foreign Minister of the Portuguese provisional government Mario Soares speaking on the phone at his office in Lisbon.
Picture from March 1975 shows Mr Soares, then secretary general of Portugal's Socialist Party at his office in London
A fierce critic of the junta that ruled Portugal for the next two years, Mr Soares in 1976 became the first post-war democratically elected prime minister.
He then spearheaded the country's entry into the European Union. But, in recent years, he became a vocal critic of the austerity policies associated with the massive eurozone bailout Portugal sought in 2011.
Mr Soares left the presidency in 1996 after the maximum tenure in the office permitted under the constitution, with his popularity at a peak. For years, he remained one of the country's most influential politicians.
He ran again for president in 2006 at the age of 82, but finished in third.
This file photo taken on June 13, 1985 shows Portuguese Prime Minister Mario Soares (R) signing the joint treaty to become a member of the European Economic Community, at the Royal Palace in Madrid. He was instrumental in Portugal's entry in the European Economic Community in 1985
Portugal declared three days of national mourning from Monday.
"President Mario Soares was born and graduated to be a fighter, to have a cause to fight - freedom," President Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa said.
"Mario Soares never gave up on a free Portugal, a free Europe, a free world and what was decisive... he was always victorious."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 13, 2017, 06:45:00 PM
After eighteen years Kamiyah Mobley who was abducted as a new born has been found by Florida police. Over the years since her abduction police had checked out more than 2,500 leads ... investigation of the two more recent led to Kamiyah's recovery.
They found her because they didn't write her off and kept looking for her.
Baby Kamiyah Mobley found safe 18 years after abduction, say police 18:23, UK, Friday 13 January 2017 http://news.sky.com/story/baby-kamiyah-mobley-found-safe-18-years-after-abduction-say-police-10727685
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on January 13, 2017, 06:51:39 PM
After eighteen years Kamiyah Mobley who was abducted as a new born has been found by Florida police. Over the years since her abduction police had checked out more than 2,500 leads ... investigation of the two more recent led to Kamiyah's recovery.
They found her because they didn't write her off and kept looking for her.
Baby Kamiyah Mobley found safe 18 years after abduction, say police 18:23, UK, Friday 13 January 2017 http://news.sky.com/story/baby-kamiyah-mobley-found-safe-18-years-after-abduction-say-police-10727685
I think tip offs help solve most of these cases.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 13, 2017, 07:17:28 PM
Sometimes. However a woman disturbed enough to abduct a new born is obviously a danger and who knows what she may be capable of. The police, to their credit, didn't ever give up on the missing child, and I doubt very much if Kamiyah's whereabouts would ever have been uncovered but for that continued dedication.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on January 13, 2017, 07:19:23 PM
Sometimes. However a woman disturbed enough to abduct a new born is obviously a danger and who knows what she may be capable of. The police, to their credit, didn't ever give up on the missing child, and I doubt very much if Kamiyah's whereabouts would ever have been uncovered but for that continued dedication.
...and a tip off in 2015.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 14, 2017, 12:26:27 AM
Indeed ... and one which was acted upon, which apparently is not always the case where the police are concerned.
Quote Williams credited tips made to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and a quickly secured DNA match with finding the teen. Jay Howell, a Jacksonville attorney who was the co-founder of of the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, said Jacksonville police deserve credit for taking the tips seriously. “That does not always happen with law enforcement,” he said. End quote http://jacksonville.com/news/2017-01-13/expert-says-outcomes-kamiyah-mobley-s-just-doesn-t-happen
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on January 14, 2017, 09:26:15 AM
It will be interesting to see how this young woman deals with the situation. Will she reject the people who brought her up for 18 years in preference for a group of strangers with which she may have nothing in common beyond some shared genes. Discovering and meeting birth parents can result in disappointment for all and this woman has a difficult time ahead of her.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on January 14, 2017, 12:32:45 PM
It will be interesting to see how this young woman deals with the situation. Will she reject the people who brought her up for 18 years in preference for a group of strangers with which she may have nothing in common beyond some shared genes. Discovering and meeting birth parents can result in disappointment for all and this woman has a difficult time ahead of her.
From the point of view of her blood relations, at the moment, they have the delight of knowing that their long lost daughter is alive and well and has apparently been loved and looked after by her abductor and her extended family.
It most certainly isn't going to be easy for any of the parties concerned and we can only wish them well for the future.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on January 14, 2017, 02:44:30 PM
From the point of view of her blood relations, at the moment, they have the delight of knowing that their long lost daughter is alive and well and has apparently been loved and looked after by her abductor and her extended family.
It most certainly isn't going to be easy for any of the parties concerned and we can only wish them well for the future.
Agreed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on January 14, 2017, 06:37:11 PM
It will definitely be incredibly difficult for Kamiyah as the lady she has always known as her mum will no doubt be facing a long custodial sentence. The agony for all is far from over, despite the crime being solved.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on January 16, 2017, 09:22:33 PM
Madeleine McCann’s parents ‘buoyed’ after newborn baby snatched from hospital found 18 years later.
Kate and Gerry said to be excited by the news as they hope a new year 'miracle' with reunite them with their missing daughter ten years after she disappeared.
(http://i.imgur.com/CumYM2C.jpg?1)
BY JENNIFER HALE AND TRACEY KANDOHLA 14th January 2017
THE parents of missing Madeleine McCann are full of fresh hope after a newborn baby taken from a hospital 18 years ago was found alive.
Kate and Gerry McCann are “buoyed” by the news of Kamiyah Mobley, who was discovered alive after being kidnapped from a Florida hospital in 1998.
Kamiyah was born in University Medical Centre, Jacksonville, Florida to mum Shanara but just eight hours later was snatched by a woman posing to be a nurse.
Kamiyah had no idea of her real identity and assumed the woman she was living with was her birth mother – until cold case cops traced her to her home in Walterboro, South Carolina.
A DNA test confirmed she is Shanara's daughter and 'mum' Gloria Williams, 51, has now been arrested on charges of kidnapping and interference with custody.
Kamiyah's dad has said he "can't wait" to meet her but local authorities say it it up to Kamiyah to decide whether she will return to her biological family or not.
The case is believed to have triggered fresh hope in Maddie's parents, who are hoping a new year "miracle" with reunite them with their missing daughter ten years after she vanished.
A family friend said: "It shows that dreams can come true and this teenager being found so many years after the event is another example that will give Kate and Gerry hope.”
The McCann's have never given up hope that Maddie, who disappeared on a family holiday aged three, could still be alive.
A Facebook campaign promoting the hunt for their daughter, which they endorse, said recently: “We still have great hope and believe in miracles. Thank you for continuing to be by our side. Let’s get her home.”
At Christmas former GP Kate and heart doctor Gerry, both 48, appealed to Maddie's abductor and people close to their tormentor to finally "do the right thing" and come forward.
They wrote in a global message: "Somebody knows. We just hope they find the courage and compassion to let us know too.”
Madeleine was born on 12 May 2003 and disappeared just before her fourth birthday on 3 May 2007.
This means she would be 13 years old today.
Her parents have always insisted that they would never give up searching for her.
Potential sightings of the British three-year old were followed up by British cops total 8,685 across 101 countries and territories, a Freedom of Information request by The Sun showed in October.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on February 16, 2017, 12:13:44 PM
Madeleine McCann's parents 'considering legal action after controversial Portuguese documentary appears on YouTube'.
The who show was made to accompany ex-police chief Goncalo Amaral's book claiming Kate and Gerry were responsible for covering up Madeleine’s “death” in May 2007
According to the Daily Star, the McCanns have enlisted the help of specialist libel firm Carter Ruck.
The couple's spokesman told the Star: "Any potentially defamatory material found online will be reviewed and assessed by Kate and Gerry’s lawyers."
Amaral is currently believed to be in Switzerland putting the finishing touches to a sequel to his first book about the case.
But earlier this month, the McCanns warned they will sue if the book is sold in the UK.
Researchers find not feeding them does not kill them
A team of brave boffins have been investigating internet trolls and reached the conclusion that there is no cure.
The team looked at a specific bunch of trolls who like to swap notes about the abduction of three-year-old Madeleine McCann from her family’s holiday villa in Portugal.
Most of the trolls are focused on insulting McCann’s parents, celebrating their daughter’s disappearance and gloating over their misery.
The team of shrinks bashed out a paper called Online Trolling, (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563217300614) where they tried to engage with this troll community, to study their attitudes and behaviour, and to work out what makes them tick.
Once the goal of their study was exposed by others in the anti-McCann community, “you need better English to do a PHD luv!” was among the politer messages sent in response to questions from “the psychology student studying trolls”.
The comments became even more toxic when the scientists tried to introduce some science into the debate. One of the psychologists posted a reference to an academic paper showing that tracking dogs might have made mistakes in finding a body because of the hot weather.
The trolls became more insulting and started attacking on the researcher’s motive, labelling them a “shill” and blocking them when they tried to steer conversations back to the findings.
The researchers discovered that the trolls has identified key phrases that act as calling cards and draw activity. In this study, the word ‘shill’ implying that the researcher was paid by the McCann family to protect its reputation was a red rag, and led to more and more trolls circling the discussion and piling in.
The paper shows trolls have some powerful psychology at play. One theme of the anti-McCann messages is motherhood and how the trolls argue that they would have behaved differently, both before and after the abduction.
This is “disassociation” and arises from an irrational belief that parents who explicitly distance themselves from the plight of the McCann family somehow keep their own children safer.
Although most of the trolls argued that they were fighting for justice, the researchers conclude that this was thin cover for being able to hurl insults anonymously.
Most of the abusive and offensive messages sent and received were against the rules of the social-media provider, yet no action was taken. Saying ‘do not feed the trolls’ does not work as they are cultural scavengers who feast on alternative facts and false news already in the system, the report said.
Last modified on 16 FEBRUARY 2017 http://www.fudzilla.com/news/42890-internet-trolls-cannot-be-cured
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2017, 08:04:59 AM
A balancing study on 'the other side' would be interesting. They'd get a lot worse than having their grasp of the English language criticised.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 17, 2017, 08:56:38 AM
A balancing study on 'the other side' would be interesting. They'd get a lot worse than having their grasp of the English language criticised.
Is there a 'balancing' study? Or have researchers just gone for the extraordinarily easy option of utilising such an embarrassment of data which is is so readily available?
Online trolling: The case of Madeleine McCann
John Synnott, , Andria Coulias , Maria Ioannou International Research Centre for Investigative Psychology, School of Human and Health Sciences, University of Huddersfield, Queensgate, Huddersfield, HD1 3DH, UK Received 7 November 2016, Revised 12 January 2017, Accepted 26 January 2017, Available online 27 January 2017
Highlights
• Case study analysis of Ant1-McCann internet Trolling Group. • The role of language, group identity and in group cohesion is examined. • Language is central to Ant1-McCann group in the construction of identity. • Several strategies were employed by Ant1-McCanns to provoke outsiders. • Support for previous research linking trolling to western media culture and Ant1 Social Personality Disorder.
Abstract Despite the sustained media attention surrounding internet trolling, academic studies investigating its occurrence are rare.
This study aimed to provide a case study analysis of the behaviours and strategies of a group of alleged Twitter trolls referred to as the ant1-McCanns due to their continual abuse of Kate and Gerry McCann as well as those who support them and thus identify as pr0-McCann.
The way in which language was used to construct the ant1-McCanns group identity, enhance in-group cohesion and facilitate out-group disassociation from the pr0-Mccann group was additionally explored, given that previous research has implicated group processes in the propagation of aggressive online conduct.
A multi-method approach involving a combination of ethnographic observations and the collection of online commentary was employed.
The data was then analysed using quantitative content analysis and discourse analysis, which indicated that language was utilised in a variety of ways by the ant1-McCanns to construct a salient group identity and negatively stereotype and disassociate from the pr0-McCann group.
Findings additionally revealed that several strategies were employed by the ant1-McCann trolls to provoke and derogate members of the pr0-McCann group, supporting previous findings which have linked trolling to both western media culture and the characteristics of ant1-social personality disorder.
The implications of these findings both theoretical and practical are discussed, alongside recommendations for future research.
Researchers find not feeding them does not kill them
A team of brave boffins have been investigating internet trolls and reached the conclusion that there is no cure.
The team looked at a specific bunch of trolls who like to swap notes about the abduction of three-year-old Madeleine McCann from her family’s holiday villa in Portugal.
Most of the trolls are focused on insulting McCann’s parents, celebrating their daughter’s disappearance and gloating over their misery.
The team of shrinks bashed out a paper called Online Trolling, (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563217300614) where they tried to engage with this troll community, to study their attitudes and behaviour, and to work out what makes them tick.
Once the goal of their study was exposed by others in the anti-McCann community, “you need better English to do a PHD luv!” was among the politer messages sent in response to questions from “the psychology student studying trolls”.
The comments became even more toxic when the scientists tried to introduce some science into the debate. One of the psychologists posted a reference to an academic paper showing that tracking dogs might have made mistakes in finding a body because of the hot weather.
The trolls became more insulting and started attacking on the researcher’s motive, labelling them a “shill” and blocking them when they tried to steer conversations back to the findings.
The researchers discovered that the trolls has identified key phrases that act as calling cards and draw activity. In this study, the word ‘shill’ implying that the researcher was paid by the McCann family to protect its reputation was a red rag, and led to more and more trolls circling the discussion and piling in.
The paper shows trolls have some powerful psychology at play. One theme of the anti-McCann messages is motherhood and how the trolls argue that they would have behaved differently, both before and after the abduction.
This is “disassociation” and arises from an irrational belief that parents who explicitly distance themselves from the plight of the McCann family somehow keep their own children safer.
Although most of the trolls argued that they were fighting for justice, the researchers conclude that this was thin cover for being able to hurl insults anonymously.
Most of the abusive and offensive messages sent and received were against the rules of the social-media provider, yet no action was taken. Saying ‘do not feed the trolls’ does not work as they are cultural scavengers who feast on alternative facts and false news already in the system, the report said.
Last modified on 16 FEBRUARY 2017 http://www.fudzilla.com/news/42890-internet-trolls-cannot-be-cured
Quote
Most of the abusive and offensive messages sent and received were against the rules of the social-media provider, yet no action was taken. Saying ‘do not feed the trolls’ does not work as they are cultural scavengers who feast on alternative facts and false news already in the system, the report said.
Interesting.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on February 17, 2017, 10:38:44 AM
A balancing study on 'the other side' would be interesting. They'd get a lot worse than having their grasp of the English language criticised.
Are you seriously suggesting that a) having their grasp of the English language criticised was the worst insult dished out to these authors (they even claim it was not in the article) and b) that McCann supporters are far more insulting?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 23, 2017, 02:42:15 PM
These are her own personal feelings and not based on any real facts other than the amount spent on finding Madeleine, which is rather incredible but that is people's salaries etc so it not really wasted as such.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 24, 2017, 08:57:22 AM
These are her own personal feelings and not based on any real facts other than the amount spent on finding Madeleine, which is rather incredible but that is people's salaries etc so it not really wasted as such.
Except that the people might have been employed more productively in solving crimes in London.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on February 26, 2017, 01:38:47 AM
Jodie Marsh CONDEMNS the McCanns in scathing Twitter attack: 'I'd dig with my bare hands'
JODIE MARSH condemned Kate and Gerry McCann as she launched a scathing attack on the parents of missing Madeleine McCann on Twitter this week.
The former glamour model claimed it's "all going to come crashing down" for the family as she questioned their innocence in a series of fiery tweets.
After watching investigative journalist Mark Williams-Thomas reveal his theory on the youngster's disappearance on This Morning, the 38-year-old blasted the police's efforts and insinuated that the couple hadn't searched hard enough for their daughter.
"In my opinion it's all going to come crashing down for the Mccanns…" she began.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on February 26, 2017, 01:51:37 AM
Jodie Marsh claims a magazine pulled her article on the McCanns after their lawyers raised concerns.
(http://i.imgur.com/CumYM2C.jpg?1)
BY HOLLY CHRISTODOULOU 24th February 2017
She added: "Already been silenced. Today I was commissioned to write an article about the Mccanns for a national magazine. They have just pulled it....
"They said their lawyers had 'raised some concerns' - it was an article simply stating the FACTS & MY opinion. Why did they NEED to stop it??
"If I had been commissioned to write an article about ANY other person in the public eye, it would never have been pulled."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on February 26, 2017, 09:38:57 AM
Can anyone explain to me why Jodie Marsh's opinion of the McCanns is worthy of banner headlines in the tabs? On second thoughts no need to answer that... @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 26, 2017, 10:21:55 AM
Can anyone explain to me why Jodie Marsh's opinion of the McCanns is worthy of banner headlines in the tabs? On second thoughts no need to answer that... @)(++(*
Sells papers, same with all McCann stories.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 26, 2017, 10:33:50 AM
I don't buy into any of this celebrity crap so had to google to find out who she was, but yes, it's all about selling papers, irrespective of content.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on February 26, 2017, 02:09:12 PM
And yet according to some, no one's interested in McCann stories anymore.... &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 26, 2017, 05:39:32 PM
I see Katie Hopkins has made a 'speech' on LBC, on her Sunday stint.
I will post it later, unless someone does it in the meantime.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on February 26, 2017, 05:53:38 PM
I think we can all guess what it says...."blah blah blah McCanns are terrible parents and deserve to be tongue lashed in the tabs by me, the great Katie Hopkins on a twice yearly basis at least....blah blah blah....my ickle children have special cuddly bunnies that I would never wash in a million years..blah blah blah...I would have been axing down every door in Portugal not making sure my nails matched my earrings....blah blah blah...." that sort of thing
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 26, 2017, 06:10:38 PM
Something along those lines. Will she receive a slap from CR, do you think ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on February 26, 2017, 06:27:32 PM
Something along those lines. Will she receive a slap from CR, do you think ?
I think these days anything goes. You're not a z-list two-bit hard-faced boob-jobbed spray-tanned cleb worth a bean until you've given the McCs a good old kicking on social media and the tabs. The tsunami of hate cannot be held back, let it swamp us all and let us all revel in its glorious McCann hating bile!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 26, 2017, 07:14:04 PM
I think these days anything goes. You're not a z-list two-bit hard-faced boob-jobbed spray-tanned cleb worth a bean until you've given the McCs a good old kicking on social media and the tabs. The tsunami of hate cannot be held back, let it swamp us all and let us all revel in its glorious McCann hating bile!
If you actually bother to read she is only critical of them leaving the children which is what they actually did according to their own statements.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on February 26, 2017, 07:26:15 PM
If you actually bother to read she is only critical of them leaving the children which is what they actually did according to their own statements.
Who cares what she has to say on the matter, really? Is hers a view I must respect and value? Has this woman set a perfect example in all areas of her personal life?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 26, 2017, 07:30:48 PM
"Maddie was lost because she was left to be found." Katie Hopkins. So she was found not lost. Who found her.
Katie Hopkins supports the abduction theory but is still considered a champion by many McCann sceptics. Never mind, as long as she is slagging off the parents who cares?!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on February 26, 2017, 11:58:39 PM
Katie Hopkins supports the abduction theory but is still considered a champion by many McCann sceptics. Never mind, as long as she is slagging off the parents who cares?!
I think the woman is confused.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 27, 2017, 06:37:21 AM
If indeed it is the law against libel which is restricting what people can say.
Put in the simplest terms ... it is an offence in most of the civilised world to print lies about an individual or individuals. If you wish to avoid restrictions such as that I suggest you try moving to Portugal and learn the language.
Do be careful not to criticise those members of the establishment in public office in any way though or you may find yourself doing serious jail time as a consequence.
One law for the rich etc ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 27, 2017, 11:11:40 AM
Put in the simplest terms ... it is an offence in most of the civilised world to print lies about an individual or individuals. If you wish to avoid restrictions such as that I suggest you try moving to Portugal and learn the language.
Do be careful not to criticise those members of the establishment in public office in any way though or you may find yourself doing serious jail time as a consequence.
One law for the rich etc ...
I would suggest G-Unit does not. We appear to be hacking over the appeal court judgement again, and that, put simply, said that the publication of McCann theory of abduction (without proof) meant Amaral's alternative (without proof) could be published, and that in the main, it reflected the interim report.
Criticising members of the establishment in public office is treated in the main in a similar manner in Portugal and the UK. If it defames, it is a civil offence, not criminal, so jail time is zero. The difference in Portugal is that if it is someone in public office (and other cases) that is defamed, the financial penalty is increased by 50%.
The only instance I am personally aware of is a woman who defamed two GNR officers by getting her facts wrong and putting that on social media. GNR officers are hardly "the rich", but the rules are simple. Defame GNR officers and the financial penalty will be increased by 50%.
This tends to mean that people in general and the media in particular are careful to make sure their allegations are backed by solid evidence. Personally, I prefer that to what appears to be a much more loose and sloppy approach in the UK.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 27, 2017, 11:31:50 AM
Put in the simplest terms ... it is an offence in most of the civilised world to print lies about an individual or individuals. If you wish to avoid restrictions such as that I suggest you try moving to Portugal and learn the language.
Do be careful not to criticise those members of the establishment in public office in any way though or you may find yourself doing serious jail time as a consequence.
One law for the rich etc ...
You think people fear the law on libel, but that isn't necessarily what is restricting them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 27, 2017, 01:23:36 PM
I would suggest G-Unit does not. We appear to be hacking over the appeal court judgement again, and that, put simply, said that the publication of McCann theory of abduction (without proof) meant Amaral's alternative (without proof) could be published, and that in the main, it reflected the interim report.
Criticising members of the establishment in public office is treated in the main in a similar manner in Portugal and the UK. If it defames, it is a civil offence, not criminal, so jail time is zero. The difference in Portugal is that if it is someone in public office (and other cases) that is defamed, the financial penalty is increased by 50%.
The only instance I am personally aware of is a woman who defamed two GNR officers by getting her facts wrong and putting that on social media. GNR officers are hardly "the rich", but the rules are simple. Defame GNR officers and the financial penalty will be increased by 50%.
This tends to mean that people in general and the media in particular are careful to make sure their allegations are backed by solid evidence. Personally, I prefer that to what appears to be a much more loose and sloppy approach in the UK.
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on October 11, 2016 Outrage over jailing of Portuguese woman who called judges “gangs of organised criminals”
It is a case that goes back 16 years and which is causing a wave of outrage on social media. Fifty-year-old Maria de Lurdes Lopes Rodrigues entered Tires jail (Cascais) nearly two weeks ago to serve a three-year sentence for defamation - handed out almost 16 years ago.
The ‘victims’ of her crimes are judges, policemen and prosecutors - many of them high-profile, and extremely well-connected.
As critics explain, it is “extremely rare, almost unheard of” for anyone to be prosecuted for “minor crimes such as offence and defamation”, but in this case perhaps, Maria de Lurdes’ ‘victims’ were simply too important to let the insults go. Suffice it to say, she is now sharing a cell with two women convicted of murder.
She had dodged her conviction for years, managed to evade orders remanding her to ‘psychiatric accompaniment’ but finally, on September 29, ‘time ran out’.
“It seems that we are in a Third World country, but this is Portugal in the 21st century”, writes friend and ‘social activist’ Mário Gomes, who is behind the gathering appeal to free Rodrigues.
“This woman is not a criminal. She is an intellectual and an artist”.
Indeed, Gomes explains that in the two weeks since her incarceration, Rodrigues has “tried to adapt to prison life, the very rigorous timetables, the slamming of doors, the internal conflicts - very often violent - in which no-one in authority steps in to halt”, and she has made friends: a Moldovian woman imprisoned for falsifying immigration papers, and a Brazilian girl in jail for carrying drugs into Europe.
The trio asked to be transferred to a shared cell. “On the explicit orders of the prison governor, the Moldovian and Brazilian were transferred to a joint cell. Lurdes was transferred to another where her company are two women serving time for murder”.
“What more can I say?” He asks. “People say it isn’t possible to jail someone for words denouncing illegalities. I am sorry but it is. Please all of you leave your iPads, PCs, latest generation mobile phones and do something to get this human being out of prison!”
The facebook group now in operation is rapidly amassing members (click here).
The background to this story can be found in media archives. It centres on Rodrigues taking out a prosecution against former culture minister Manuel Maria Carrilho (currently involved in VIP divorce proceedings with a former game show hostess) in 1996.
Carrilho had ‘robbed her’ of the chance of a scholarship to continue her studies in cinematography, claimed Rodrigues.
Then in her late 30s, Lurdes won the case, which went to appeal.
As her friend Mário Gomes explains, she lost thereafter in court “with a judge whom she accused of corruption because, as (Rodrigues) believed, she (the judge) always put herself on the side of the minister”.
And so it went on. Diário de Notícias explained in 2013 that Rodrigues refused to give up, filing complaints about “various personalities, like the former Attorney General of the Republic Pinto Monteiro, the director of DCIAP Maria José Morgado and the director of the PJ Almeida Rodrigues, accusing them of “excusing crimes” practised by people she had accused of “stealing and plundering” her home and property”.
There came a point where she wrote that DIAP director Morgado “smiled like a psychopath and murderer” over Rodrigues’ case of eviction.
And then came the letters describing the Attorney General and other personalities as “criminal gangs”.
As DN said at the time, Maria de Lurdes Lopes Rodrigues has entered into the history of Portuguese justice “as being one of the few people condemned to prison for a minor crime like offence and defamation”.
It now remains to be seen if she stays there, or if this impetus to see her freed rings the changes.
The Free Maria de Lurdes facebook group is open to anyone, of any nationality.
Its next upcoming event is a meeting at the Faculty of Human and Social Sciences on October 24, to debate: “Freedom, Censure and Democracy”.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Categories: Portugal
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 27, 2017, 01:32:17 PM
You think people fear the law on libel, but that isn't necessarily what is restricting them.
Please provide a cite detailing the restrictions placed on individuals who intend to put factual material into the public domain but are deterred from doing so by whatever it is you think may deter them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 27, 2017, 01:44:34 PM
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on October 11, 2016 Outrage over jailing of Portuguese woman who called judges “gangs of organised criminals”
It is a case that goes back 16 years and which is causing a wave of outrage on social media. Fifty-year-old Maria de Lurdes Lopes Rodrigues entered Tires jail (Cascais) nearly two weeks ago to serve a three-year sentence for defamation - handed out almost 16 years ago.
The ‘victims’ of her crimes are judges, policemen and prosecutors - many of them high-profile, and extremely well-connected.
As critics explain, it is “extremely rare, almost unheard of” for anyone to be prosecuted for “minor crimes such as offence and defamation”, but in this case perhaps, Maria de Lurdes’ ‘victims’ were simply too important to let the insults go. Suffice it to say, she is now sharing a cell with two women convicted of murder.
She had dodged her conviction for years, managed to evade orders remanding her to ‘psychiatric accompaniment’ but finally, on September 29, ‘time ran out’.
“It seems that we are in a Third World country, but this is Portugal in the 21st century”, writes friend and ‘social activist’ Mário Gomes, who is behind the gathering appeal to free Rodrigues.
“This woman is not a criminal. She is an intellectual and an artist”.
Indeed, Gomes explains that in the two weeks since her incarceration, Rodrigues has “tried to adapt to prison life, the very rigorous timetables, the slamming of doors, the internal conflicts - very often violent - in which no-one in authority steps in to halt”, and she has made friends: a Moldovian woman imprisoned for falsifying immigration papers, and a Brazilian girl in jail for carrying drugs into Europe.
The trio asked to be transferred to a shared cell. “On the explicit orders of the prison governor, the Moldovian and Brazilian were transferred to a joint cell. Lurdes was transferred to another where her company are two women serving time for murder”.
“What more can I say?” He asks. “People say it isn’t possible to jail someone for words denouncing illegalities. I am sorry but it is. Please all of you leave your iPads, PCs, latest generation mobile phones and do something to get this human being out of prison!”
The facebook group now in operation is rapidly amassing members (click here).
The background to this story can be found in media archives. It centres on Rodrigues taking out a prosecution against former culture minister Manuel Maria Carrilho (currently involved in VIP divorce proceedings with a former game show hostess) in 1996.
Carrilho had ‘robbed her’ of the chance of a scholarship to continue her studies in cinematography, claimed Rodrigues.
Then in her late 30s, Lurdes won the case, which went to appeal.
As her friend Mário Gomes explains, she lost thereafter in court “with a judge whom she accused of corruption because, as (Rodrigues) believed, she (the judge) always put herself on the side of the minister”.
And so it went on. Diário de Notícias explained in 2013 that Rodrigues refused to give up, filing complaints about “various personalities, like the former Attorney General of the Republic Pinto Monteiro, the director of DCIAP Maria José Morgado and the director of the PJ Almeida Rodrigues, accusing them of “excusing crimes” practised by people she had accused of “stealing and plundering” her home and property”.
There came a point where she wrote that DIAP director Morgado “smiled like a psychopath and murderer” over Rodrigues’ case of eviction.
And then came the letters describing the Attorney General and other personalities as “criminal gangs”.
As DN said at the time, Maria de Lurdes Lopes Rodrigues has entered into the history of Portuguese justice “as being one of the few people condemned to prison for a minor crime like offence and defamation”.
It now remains to be seen if she stays there, or if this impetus to see her freed rings the changes.
The Free Maria de Lurdes facebook group is open to anyone, of any nationality.
Its next upcoming event is a meeting at the Faculty of Human and Social Sciences on October 24, to debate: “Freedom, Censure and Democracy”.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Categories: Portugal
Supreme rejects application for release of Maria de Lourdes The Fellow has been detained at the Tires Prison since September, serving a three-year prison term for crimes of defamation and libel against judges and magistrates. ALINE FLOR February 21, 2017, 9:50 p.m.
The Supreme Court last week rejected the petition for habeas corpus by Maria de Lurdes Rodrigues, a grantee who is serving three years in prison for crimes of defamation and libel against judges and magistrates.
The habeas corpus petition , sent by four members of the Madeira Legislative Assembly at the beginning of February, argued that "the penalty imposed is totally out of step with the seriousness of the crimes attributed to him and of which he was accused, and that his arrest results from A judicial error that translates into a violation of human rights ".
The case of Maria de Lourdes grantee: request for release sent to the Supreme Court In a decision signed on February 15, the judges understood that "the unlawfulness of the imprisonment is not verified" and decided "to dismiss, as unfounded, the writ of habeas corpus requested by the citizens of the Autonomous Region of Madeira ... in favor of Maria of Lurdes Lopes Rodrigues ".
The case goes back to 1996, when Maria de Lourdes felt wronged for not having been awarded a scholarship by the Ministry of Culture. After challenging the scholarship process, the investigator challenged the actions of the judges involved in the proceedings, in a way that was considered insulting.
On 29 September 2016, after a lengthy appeal and rejection of the psychiatric treatment measure proposed to suspend the sentence, the grantee was detained and taken to the Tires Prison to serve the three-year sentence of Imprisonment for crimes of defamation and libel against judges and magistrates.
Raquel Coelho, a member of the Portuguese Labor Party in the Legislative Assembly of Madeira and one of the applicants for habeas corpus , was not surprised by the court's decision on this specific request, despite disagreeing with the view of the judges on the legality of the case. "We consider that her arrest violates the Constitution," he said in statements to the public.
The regional deputy emphasizes that the request was filed as "the only option" to "try to humanize the Portuguese justice", considering the sentence of disproportionate arrest - it is one of the few people sentenced to serve an effective prison sentence for minor crimes - And that "it makes little sense for a person in these circumstances to be arrested for criticizing a judge."
Without confirming whether there will be scope for further legal action, Raquel Coelho guarantees that the petition's subscribers will continue to put public pressure to ensure that the case is not forgotten. https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=https://www.publico.pt/2017/02/21/sociedade/noticia/supremo-rejeita-pedido-de-libertacao-da-bolseira-maria-de-lurdes-1762868&prev=search
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on February 27, 2017, 02:11:06 PM
I think she's restricted in what she's allowed to say, as is anyone speaking via the media, it seems.
In the UK, we are not allowed to libel and slander people without the threat of legal action hanging over our heads. What a primitive country we live in, eh? How much more civilized it would be if I could accuse your son of being a paedophile or your daughter of being a spouse beater, with the onus being on your kids to "prove their innocence".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on February 27, 2017, 07:57:49 PM
After yesterdays LBC rant, I see the 'wonderful' Katie Hopkins today was the recipient of libel proceedings, and not for the first time it seems.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 02, 2017, 08:12:51 AM
' Watchdog says police cuts have left force in 'perilous state'
Government austerity blamed in report, which shows stretched forces downgrading calls and leaving suspects at large '
Policing in England and Wales is in a “potentially perilous state” as government cuts lead to investigations being shelved, vulnerable victims being let down and tens of thousands of dangerous suspects remaining at large, a watchdog has warned.
In a report on effectiveness in policing, Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) uncovered a range of “dangerous” and “disturbing” practices that have arisen out of police forces’ approach to dealing with budget cuts in excess of 20%.
Some police staff are deliberately downgrading emergency calls in order to justify a slower response when there is a shortage of officers, HMIC said, while others are reclassifying high-risk domestic abuse victims to a lower level of concern.
Police officers are being assigned to investigations that they are not qualified to conduct, the watchdog found, while forces are struggling to get to grips with the volume of wanted suspects – including murderers, rapists and violent offenders.
Around a third of domestic abuse cases across England and Wales are being shelved because the victim does not support police action – this rises to 50% in five of the 43 forces, which has led to concern at HMIC that officers are not properly discharging their responsibilities in a bid to slash their workload.
HMIC also issued a warning that a shortage of detectives and investigators amounts to a “national crisis”.
In a stark message about the current state of policing, Zoë Billingham, Her Majesty’s Inspector of Constabulary, said the “disturbing” practices did not apply to the majority of forces but the watchdog could see the problems spreading if action was not taken.
“We’re leading to a very serious conclusion regarding the potentially perilous state of policing,” she said. “It’s a red flag that we’re raising at this stage. A large red flag.”
Billingham said “ad hoc rationing” of services was due to “stretch in the system” and was the “unintended consequence of the way in which some forces have adapted to austerity”.
“This suppression of demand, this ad hoc rationing that’s happening at different pinch points, isn’t part of a deliberate plan, it’s not part of a rational evidence-based plan decision model,” she said. “It’s happening under the radar, it’s often happening by stealth and it’s often an unintended consequence of the way in which some forces have adapted to austerity
Despite the inspector’s criticism of the policing landscape, the majority of police forces were graded as “good” or “outstanding” for effectiveness. One force – Bedfordshire police – was rated inadequate.
But the inspectorate said it had discovered some forces using “inappropriate” methods to deal with increasing levels of demand with fewer resources.
In some cases, this has led to failings in dealing with the most vulnerable victims, HMIC said, in particular to victims of domestic abuse. In two forces, for example, domestic abuse risk assessments were, in too many cases, conducted over the telephone when the call taker judged that there was not an immediate risk to the victim. HMIC said this was in part due to the increase in demand on the service: between August 2013 and June 2016 police recorded a 61% increase in domestic abuse crimes. As a way of dealing with this demand, some forces are not sending officers to domestic abuse incidents.
Similarly, forces are struggling to cope with the number of wanted suspects. HMIC found that 67,000 wanted suspects had not been placed on the police national computer (PNC). In addition, as of August, there were 45,960 wanted suspects on the PNC, including those being sought for offences including terrorism, murder and rape.
“In too many forces, there is a lack of grip, supervision, active management, pursuit and tracking down of wanted suspects,” the report said.
HMIC said it was concerned about the workloads of the teams supervising registered sex offenders. It found that throughout England and Wales, the risk represented by some 2,700 registered sex offenders had yet to be assessed by police officers responsible for their supervision in order to keep communities safe. In six forces, more than 10% of registered sex offenders had yet to be assessed at the time of the inspection. In one force, that figure was 30%
The watchdog found that organised crime groups were not being assessed properly by some forces, including the Metropolitan police. Assessing organised crime gangs, once they have been identified, allows forces to understand the threat posed and to decide which groups to tackle first.
“It is unacceptable that some large urban forces with a high threat from serious and organised crime have relatively fewer mapped criminal groups than small rural forces,” the report said.
The difficulties are being compounded by what HMIC called the “national crisis” of the severe shortage of investigators, such as detectives. The lack of investigators is leading to “excessive workloads and stress” among police officers and staff, the watchdog said. The inspectorate added the shortage meant some investigations were being led by those who lacked the appropriate skills and experience.
Ch Supt Gavin Thomas, the president of the Police Superintendents’ Association of England and Wales, said: “The public will be worried by this report and I share their concerns. There are now 34,000 fewer staff working in policing than there were in 2010, including 19,000 fewer police officers. The amount of money available for policing has also reduced over time.
“At the same time, a great deal of police time and resources are now spent meeting the demands of complex welfare and vulnerability issues in society. As a minimum these should be addressed in partnership with other public services. But as a 24/7 service, policing continues to pick up demand that is not being met by other services.”
Steve White, chair of the Police Federation of England and Wales, which represents tens of thousands of rank-and-file officers, said: “The federation has been pointing out the pitfalls of continually taking the axe to police budgets over successive years and warning that it will actually hurt the very people we have pledged to protect – members of the public.
“Some forces are clearly coping better than others, but you can’t compare 43 forces to one another – it’s like comparing apples with pears. What we are seeing is a service that is only being driven by cost constraints and some areas of policing are on the critical list and heading towards intensive care.”
Brandon Lewis, minister for policing and the fire service, said: “I am pleased that two-thirds of forces are rated in [the] report as either good or outstanding, and that there have been real improvements, in particular, in the overall police response to vulnerable people.
“But a number of forces clearly still have more work to do to ensure they are providing the level of service which communities expect and deserve.
“This government has protected police funding, through the 2015 spending review. There can be no excuse for any force that fails to deliver on its obligations – those identified as inadequate or requiring improvement must take HMIC’s findings very seriously.”
Diane Abbott, the shadow home secretary, said: “The report shows that the police are doing their best despite this Tory government’s actions. Her Majesty’s inspectorate says that some forces are struggling to respond to shrinking resources. Some are artificially downgrading the severity of calls, others are not able to properly carry out their core functions of crime prevention, public security and apprehending criminals. Some are setting quotas for specialist police or failing to register organised gangs in their area, because that would require further action.
“We should be clear, the primary responsibility for this is not individual forces or officers. The fault lies with the Tory government, who have cut 20,000 police officers and who are now cutting police budgets across the country.”
Brian Paddick: ‘The thin blue line is getting stretched to breaking point.’ Photograph: Murdo MacLeod/the Guardian Brian Paddick, Liberal Democrat shadow home secretary and former deputy assistant commissioner in the Metropolitan police, said: “Police officers have a ‘can-do’ mentality. But the thin blue line is getting stretched to breaking point and vulnerable people are being placed at risk as a result.
“It is totally unacceptable that police officers, who are doing more than anyone can reasonably expect of them, are being forced to downgrade ‘life at risk’ calls. How long will it be before someone dies because there is no police officer to respond?
“The government needs to urgently rethink imposing even more cuts on the police service ahead of the budget next week.”
Yet money is being spent on this case with nothing to show for it, after £13,000,000.................
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 02, 2017, 10:30:58 PM
PUBLIC RELEASE: 2-MAR-2017 Exploring the world of the Madeleine McCann trolls UNIVERSITY OF HUDDERSFIELD
A DECADE has passed since the disappearance of toddler Madeleine McCann on holiday in Portugal, but activity online regarding the case is constant, with some of this commentary being directed in the form of abuse, a behaviour commonly referred to as 'trolling'. It is estimated that every hour there are more than 100 tweets posted using the McCann hashtag.
Now, University of Huddersfield psychology researchers have entered the world of internet trolls and their abusive, aggressive language, directed towards those who disagree with them. Described in a new journal article, the project has led to a call for measures - including an end to pseudonyms on Twitter - that would curb the anonymity that enables cyber-trolling.
The work is featured in an online editorial headed The dark side of social media for the prestigious journal, Nature, and the research reinforces newly-revealed UK Government plans to curb cyber abuse.
The University of Huddersfield's Dr John Synnott - who co-authored the new article in Computers in Human Behaviour - commented that: "It is encouraging to see that ministers have called the major social media platforms to Whitehall to demand that they do more to protect people online from cyber bullying and trolling or face sanctions. This is a step in the right direction by making these platforms responsible for negative behaviour that they unfortunately enable."
"There is absolutely a need for such precautions," continued Dr Synnott. "Trolls are hiding behind the facility to be anonymous, which Twitter enables to a certain degree. Our research can contribute to an understanding and a reduction in trolling behaviour and one of the main interpretations is that the level of anonymity provided by certain social networking sites is a massive enabler."
A key discovery of the research conducted by Dr Synnott, his Huddersfield colleague Dr Maria Ioannou and postgraduate student Andria Coulias, is that far from operating in isolation - as has usually been argued - trolls form "anti-social networks" that reinforce their behaviour. Also, media reports that condemn the trolls' actions have the effect of "showering them with the very attention they appear to covet".
Trailing the trolls
Dr Synnott is Assistant Director of the University of Huddersfield's MSc in Investigative Psychology - Dr Ioannou is Course Director - and as a regular user of social media sites he developed an interest in trolling and the psychology behind it
The sheer volume of tweets by the anti-McCann group - and by supporters of Madeleine's parents - meant that it would be an excellent case study. A sample of 400 McCann-related tweets obtained from 37 user accounts and containing a total of 7,600 words was analysed by the research team. The article describing the project contains samples of the abusive, often illiterate language used by trolls.
It was found that "the insults and abuse levelled at both the McCanns and the pro-McCann users were constant, repetitive, and in clear violation of Twitter policies, though user accounts were rarely suspended".
The theme of motherhood implied a strong female presence in the anti-McCann group, whereas earlier research has suggested that trolls are mostly male, because of frequent misogynistic sentiments.
"This is stage one of this research," said Dr Synnott. "The paper doesn't attempt to take a position on the case, but rather aims to explore trolling behaviour in general. The McCann group was the most obvious place for us to start. Stage two, which is currently in development, will be an analysis of the Pro-McCann group, to explore any differences or similarities between them."
The article concludes that "the damaging impact the McCann trolls' behaviour has had on those victimised" makes necessary "the continuation of research exploiting the ways in which aggressive forms of trolling materialise, so that we might consequently establish ways in which to effectively deal with them".
* The article, Online trolling: The case of Madeleine McCann, by Dr John Synnott, Andria Coulias and Dr Maria Ioannou, is in the latest issue of Computers in Human Behavior.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 02, 2017, 10:33:33 PM
PUBLIC RELEASE: 2-MAR-2017 Exploring the world of the Madeleine McCann trolls UNIVERSITY OF HUDDERSFIELD
A DECADE has passed since the disappearance of toddler Madeleine McCann on holiday in Portugal, but activity online regarding the case is constant, with some of this commentary being directed in the form of abuse, a behaviour commonly referred to as 'trolling'. It is estimated that every hour there are more than 100 tweets posted using the McCann hashtag.
Now, University of Huddersfield psychology researchers have entered the world of internet trolls and their abusive, aggressive language, directed towards those who disagree with them. Described in a new journal article, the project has led to a call for measures - including an end to pseudonyms on Twitter - that would curb the anonymity that enables cyber-trolling.
The work is featured in an online editorial headed The dark side of social media for the prestigious journal, Nature, and the research reinforces newly-revealed UK Government plans to curb cyber abuse.
The University of Huddersfield's Dr John Synnott - who co-authored the new article in Computers in Human Behaviour - commented that: "It is encouraging to see that ministers have called the major social media platforms to Whitehall to demand that they do more to protect people online from cyber bullying and trolling or face sanctions. This is a step in the right direction by making these platforms responsible for negative behaviour that they unfortunately enable."
"There is absolutely a need for such precautions," continued Dr Synnott. "Trolls are hiding behind the facility to be anonymous, which Twitter enables to a certain degree. Our research can contribute to an understanding and a reduction in trolling behaviour and one of the main interpretations is that the level of anonymity provided by certain social networking sites is a massive enabler."
A key discovery of the research conducted by Dr Synnott, his Huddersfield colleague Dr Maria Ioannou and postgraduate student Andria Coulias, is that far from operating in isolation - as has usually been argued - trolls form "anti-social networks" that reinforce their behaviour. Also, media reports that condemn the trolls' actions have the effect of "showering them with the very attention they appear to covet".
Trailing the trolls
Dr Synnott is Assistant Director of the University of Huddersfield's MSc in Investigative Psychology - Dr Ioannou is Course Director - and as a regular user of social media sites he developed an interest in trolling and the psychology behind it
The sheer volume of tweets by the anti-McCann group - and by supporters of Madeleine's parents - meant that it would be an excellent case study. A sample of 400 McCann-related tweets obtained from 37 user accounts and containing a total of 7,600 words was analysed by the research team. The article describing the project contains samples of the abusive, often illiterate language used by trolls.
It was found that "the insults and abuse levelled at both the McCanns and the pro-McCann users were constant, repetitive, and in clear violation of Twitter policies, though user accounts were rarely suspended".
The theme of motherhood implied a strong female presence in the anti-McCann group, whereas earlier research has suggested that trolls are mostly male, because of frequent misogynistic sentiments.
"This is stage one of this research," said Dr Synnott. "The paper doesn't attempt to take a position on the case, but rather aims to explore trolling behaviour in general. The McCann group was the most obvious place for us to start. Stage two, which is currently in development, will be an analysis of the Pro-McCann group, to explore any differences or similarities between them."
The article concludes that "the damaging impact the McCann trolls' behaviour has had on those victimised" makes necessary "the continuation of research exploiting the ways in which aggressive forms of trolling materialise, so that we might consequently establish ways in which to effectively deal with them".
* The article, Online trolling: The case of Madeleine McCann, by Dr John Synnott, Andria Coulias and Dr Maria Ioannou, is in the latest issue of Computers in Human Behavior.
Now, has this person examined the Mccann supporting trolls ?
There is an extensive dossier of their behaviour, in their idolatry of the Mccann's.
It would make an interesting psychological study, to put it mildly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 02, 2017, 10:36:16 PM
PUBLIC RELEASE: 2-MAR-2017 Exploring the world of the Madeleine McCann trolls UNIVERSITY OF HUDDERSFIELD
A DECADE has passed since the disappearance of toddler Madeleine McCann on holiday in Portugal, but activity online regarding the case is constant, with some of this commentary being directed in the form of abuse, a behaviour commonly referred to as 'trolling'. It is estimated that every hour there are more than 100 tweets posted using the McCann hashtag.
Now, University of Huddersfield psychology researchers have entered the world of internet trolls and their abusive, aggressive language, directed towards those who disagree with them. Described in a new journal article, the project has led to a call for measures - including an end to pseudonyms on Twitter - that would curb the anonymity that enables cyber-trolling.
The work is featured in an online editorial headed The dark side of social media for the prestigious journal, Nature, and the research reinforces newly-revealed UK Government plans to curb cyber abuse.
The University of Huddersfield's Dr John Synnott - who co-authored the new article in Computers in Human Behaviour - commented that: "It is encouraging to see that ministers have called the major social media platforms to Whitehall to demand that they do more to protect people online from cyber bullying and trolling or face sanctions. This is a step in the right direction by making these platforms responsible for negative behaviour that they unfortunately enable."
"There is absolutely a need for such precautions," continued Dr Synnott. "Trolls are hiding behind the facility to be anonymous, which Twitter enables to a certain degree. Our research can contribute to an understanding and a reduction in trolling behaviour and one of the main interpretations is that the level of anonymity provided by certain social networking sites is a massive enabler."
A key discovery of the research conducted by Dr Synnott, his Huddersfield colleague Dr Maria Ioannou and postgraduate student Andria Coulias, is that far from operating in isolation - as has usually been argued - trolls form "anti-social networks" that reinforce their behaviour. Also, media reports that condemn the trolls' actions have the effect of "showering them with the very attention they appear to covet".
Trailing the trolls
Dr Synnott is Assistant Director of the University of Huddersfield's MSc in Investigative Psychology - Dr Ioannou is Course Director - and as a regular user of social media sites he developed an interest in trolling and the psychology behind it
The sheer volume of tweets by the anti-McCann group - and by supporters of Madeleine's parents - meant that it would be an excellent case study. A sample of 400 McCann-related tweets obtained from 37 user accounts and containing a total of 7,600 words was analysed by the research team. The article describing the project contains samples of the abusive, often illiterate language used by trolls.
It was found that "the insults and abuse levelled at both the McCanns and the pro-McCann users were constant, repetitive, and in clear violation of Twitter policies, though user accounts were rarely suspended".
The theme of motherhood implied a strong female presence in the anti-McCann group, whereas earlier research has suggested that trolls are mostly male, because of frequent misogynistic sentiments.
"This is stage one of this research," said Dr Synnott. "The paper doesn't attempt to take a position on the case, but rather aims to explore trolling behaviour in general. The McCann group was the most obvious place for us to start. Stage two, which is currently in development, will be an analysis of the Pro-McCann group, to explore any differences or similarities between them."
The article concludes that "the damaging impact the McCann trolls' behaviour has had on those victimised" makes necessary "the continuation of research exploiting the ways in which aggressive forms of trolling materialise, so that we might consequently establish ways in which to effectively deal with them".
* The article, Online trolling: The case of Madeleine McCann, by Dr John Synnott, Andria Coulias and Dr Maria Ioannou, is in the latest issue of Computers in Human Behavior.
There are no earth shattering disoveries there then; except perhaps the motherhood theme.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on March 02, 2017, 11:01:39 PM
PUBLIC RELEASE: 2-MAR-2017 Exploring the world of the Madeleine McCann trolls UNIVERSITY OF HUDDERSFIELD
A DECADE has passed since the disappearance of toddler Madeleine McCann on holiday in Portugal, but activity online regarding the case is constant, with some of this commentary being directed in the form of abuse, a behaviour commonly referred to as 'trolling'. It is estimated that every hour there are more than 100 tweets posted using the McCann hashtag.
Now, University of Huddersfield psychology researchers have entered the world of internet trolls and their abusive, aggressive language, directed towards those who disagree with them. Described in a new journal article, the project has led to a call for measures - including an end to pseudonyms on Twitter - that would curb the anonymity that enables cyber-trolling.
The work is featured in an online editorial headed The dark side of social media for the prestigious journal, Nature, and the research reinforces newly-revealed UK Government plans to curb cyber abuse.
The University of Huddersfield's Dr John Synnott - who co-authored the new article in Computers in Human Behaviour - commented that: "It is encouraging to see that ministers have called the major social media platforms to Whitehall to demand that they do more to protect people online from cyber bullying and trolling or face sanctions. This is a step in the right direction by making these platforms responsible for negative behaviour that they unfortunately enable."
"There is absolutely a need for such precautions," continued Dr Synnott. "Trolls are hiding behind the facility to be anonymous, which Twitter enables to a certain degree. Our research can contribute to an understanding and a reduction in trolling behaviour and one of the main interpretations is that the level of anonymity provided by certain social networking sites is a massive enabler."
A key discovery of the research conducted by Dr Synnott, his Huddersfield colleague Dr Maria Ioannou and postgraduate student Andria Coulias, is that far from operating in isolation - as has usually been argued - trolls form "anti-social networks" that reinforce their behaviour. Also, media reports that condemn the trolls' actions have the effect of "showering them with the very attention they appear to covet".
Trailing the trolls
Dr Synnott is Assistant Director of the University of Huddersfield's MSc in Investigative Psychology - Dr Ioannou is Course Director - and as a regular user of social media sites he developed an interest in trolling and the psychology behind it
The sheer volume of tweets by the anti-McCann group - and by supporters of Madeleine's parents - meant that it would be an excellent case study. A sample of 400 McCann-related tweets obtained from 37 user accounts and containing a total of 7,600 words was analysed by the research team. The article describing the project contains samples of the abusive, often illiterate language used by trolls.
It was found that "the insults and abuse levelled at both the McCanns and the pro-McCann users were constant, repetitive, and in clear violation of Twitter policies, though user accounts were rarely suspended".
The theme of motherhood implied a strong female presence in the anti-McCann group, whereas earlier research has suggested that trolls are mostly male, because of frequent misogynistic sentiments.
"This is stage one of this research," said Dr Synnott. "The paper doesn't attempt to take a position on the case, but rather aims to explore trolling behaviour in general. The McCann group was the most obvious place for us to start. Stage two, which is currently in development, will be an analysis of the Pro-McCann group, to explore any differences or similarities between them."
The article concludes that "the damaging impact the McCann trolls' behaviour has had on those victimised" makes necessary "the continuation of research exploiting the ways in which aggressive forms of trolling materialise, so that we might consequently establish ways in which to effectively deal with them".
* The article, Online trolling: The case of Madeleine McCann, by Dr John Synnott, Andria Coulias and Dr Maria Ioannou, is in the latest issue of Computers in Human Behavior.
We've already had that one.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2017, 09:39:01 AM
Madeleine McCann's parents subjected to 150 abusive tweets a DAY from online trolls Psychologist Dr John Synott has carried out the first study of its kind on trolls and found their “whole existence relies on social media accounts” BYTOM PETTIFOR 18:35, 3 MAR 2017
Up to 150 abusive tweets about Maddie McCann’s parents are posted by online trolls every day, researchers have estimated.
Psychologist Dr John Synott has carried out the first study of its kind on trolls and found their “whole existence relies on social media accounts”.
He is calling for to end the right to anonymously troll strangers on Twitter.
Dr Synott said: “Most trolling behaviour has a lifespan of a couple of days. This has gone on for ten years, and you cannot see it ever ending. That is the legacy of the McCann case.
“In the physical world there are repercussions. You couldn’t get away with saying these things in the street. But in the virtual world there are no consequences.”
Three-year-old Maddie disappeared from the family’s holiday apartment in Portugal in 2007. Twitter trolls blame parents’ Kate and Gerry and discuss the case constantly.
Dr Synott has been interested in the McCann trolling ever since he first saw it at work in about 2012.
He said: “It was somewhat organised, it was repetitive, but the volume of information was the real surprising thing.”
The University of Huddersfield researchers want pseudonyms which enable cyber trolling to be prevented from being used on Twitter.
Dr Synott said: “It is encouraging to see ministers have called the major social media platforms to Whitehall to demand they do more to protect people online from cyber bullying and trolling or face sanctions.
His study published in Computers in Human Behaviour has been featured in an editorial headed ‘The dark side of social media’ for the prestigious journal, Nature.
It reinforces newly-revealed UK Government plans to curb cyber abuse.
Dr Synott said: “We found there were between 100 and 150 abusive comments on Twitter, Facebook and McCann messageboards every day.”
Dr Synott is now planning to extend the research by analysing the pro McCann camp.
Now let's if he deals with the extreme McCann supporters.
Supplying the relevant data to him will not be any problem. 8(0(*
The researchers appear to be perfectly capable of carrying out their own research ... the beauty of which will be the impartiality of their report. Who knows where it will lead ... but interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 04, 2017, 10:26:14 AM
The researchers appear to be perfectly capable of carrying out their own research ... the beauty of which will be the impartiality of their report. Who knows where it will lead ... but interesting nonetheless.
Impartiality, would have been to treat both extremes at the same side.
I don't see it being done as regards Mccann supporters, but that can be amended.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2017, 10:34:12 AM
In my opinion the tweeting trolls pursuing the McCanns are going come out of any independent research very badly.
I rather suspect you may share that thought ... as you are already calling the impartiality of this one into question.
Impartiality Brietta, would be to tackle both ends of the spectrum.
Make no mistake, the 'behaviour' of the extreme McCann supporters has been catalogued, and to put it mildly would make an interesting psychological study.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 04, 2017, 10:54:15 AM
Impartiality Brietta, would be to tackle both ends of the spectrum.
Make no mistake, the 'behaviour' of the extreme McCann supporters has been catalogued, and to put it mildly would make an interesting psychological study.
Dr John Synott appears to have a wealth of material to be going on with ... and in my opinion, his study may well have repercussions for social media as a whole if not the more maniacal trolls as individuals.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 04, 2017, 10:59:51 AM
Dr John Synott appears to have a wealth of material to be going on with ... and in my opinion, his study may well have repercussions for social media as a whole if not the more maniacal trolls as individuals.
I have watched some of the behaviour from the extremes of both sides, and easily found on twitter, and other social media.
The question remains, why didn't he tackle both ends of the spectrum at the same time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 04, 2017, 11:48:20 PM
Evil Karen Matthews 'tried to dupe Kate and Gerry McCann into handing over £25,000 from Madeleine's fund' McCann believed Matthews' 9-year-old daughter Shannon had been kidnapped Shannon disappeared in 2008, less than a year after Madeleine, was snatched Man claiming to represent Matthews visited the McCann's home to demand cash By RACHAEL BURFORD FOR MAILONLINE PUBLISHED: 22:59, 4 March 2017 | UPDATED: 23:31, 4 March 2017
The parents of missing Madeleine McCann were almost duped into handing over £25,000 from their charity to Karen Matthews.
Kate and Gerry McCann believed Matthews' 9-year-old daughter Shannon had been kidnapped and were planning to send money to the search effort in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire.
Shannon disappeared in 2008, less than a year after Madeleine, three, was snatched from a holiday apartment in Portugal.
A source close to Mrs McCanns, 48, told The Sun: 'She was deeply upset by Shannon's abduction and felt sorry for the family. She wanted to help.'
A man claiming to represent Matthews even visited the McCann's home in Leicestershire to demand money.
But the demand was a rouse as Matthews had drugged her daughter and hidden her at the house of friend Michael Donovan.
Shannon was found by police in the base of a divan bed 24 days after she went missing.
It is believed the pair hatched the plan after they saw the McCann's raise more than £1million in the search for their daughter.
A spokesman for the McCann's said the trustees were tipped off when they contacted police about who they should make a cheque out to.
Clarence Mitchell told the Sun: 'Police advised us not to hand over money. We heard things had come to light in investigations.
'It is beyond belief anyone could've sought to exploit poor Madeleine's plight.'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 05, 2017, 12:09:27 AM
Evil Karen Matthews 'tried to dupe Kate and Gerry McCann into handing over £25,000 from Madeleine's fund' McCann believed Matthews' 9-year-old daughter Shannon had been kidnapped Shannon disappeared in 2008, less than a year after Madeleine, was snatched Man claiming to represent Matthews visited the McCann's home to demand cash By RACHAEL BURFORD FOR MAILONLINE PUBLISHED: 22:59, 4 March 2017 | UPDATED: 23:31, 4 March 2017
The parents of missing Madeleine McCann were almost duped into handing over £25,000 from their charity to Karen Matthews.
Kate and Gerry McCann believed Matthews' 9-year-old daughter Shannon had been kidnapped and were planning to send money to the search effort in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire.
Shannon disappeared in 2008, less than a year after Madeleine, three, was snatched from a holiday apartment in Portugal.
A source close to Mrs McCanns, 48, told The Sun: 'She was deeply upset by Shannon's abduction and felt sorry for the family. She wanted to help.'
A man claiming to represent Matthews even visited the McCann's home in Leicestershire to demand money.
But the demand was a rouse as Matthews had drugged her daughter and hidden her at the house of friend Michael Donovan.
Shannon was found by police in the base of a divan bed 24 days after she went missing.
It is believed the pair hatched the plan after they saw the McCann's raise more than £1million in the search for their daughter.
A spokesman for the McCann's said the trustees were tipped off when they contacted police about who they should make a cheque out to.
Clarence Mitchell told the Sun: 'Police advised us not to hand over money. We heard things had come to light in investigations.
'It is beyond belief anyone could've sought to exploit poor Madeleine's plight.'
I am not sure what the sum total of errors Rachael Burford has made, but it must be quite a few.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 05, 2017, 12:28:23 AM
She did not mention Madeleine's Fund. She mentioned 'Charity'.
True. But what was their charity? The ability to write out a cheque for 25k from their own funds? Pretty stonking demand. Hello, I'm on your doorstep. I'm a charity collector. Could you give me 25k? Clarence said no after contacting the police.
Wouldn't this mean a bogus charity collector in Rothley?
It's about Madeleine's Fund. It has more holes than the Titanic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2017, 01:23:04 AM
True. But what was their charity? The ability to write out a cheque for 25k from their own funds? Pretty stonking demand. Hello, I'm on your doorstep. I'm a charity collector. Could you give me 25k? Clarence said no after contacting the police.
Wouldn't this mean a bogus charity collector in Rothley?
It's about Madeleine's Fund. It has more holes than the Titanic.
There was huge National concern about Shannon Matthews disappearance and a great deal of empathy for her distressed mother.
I took the Charity Missing People to be the one mentioned in the article as it was set up to assist the families of the missing. Step one ... approach made to Kate McCann Step two ... Kate McCann relays the request to the Charity for consideration Step three ... nobody hands over a sum of money like that without ensuring everything is kosher ~ on police advice, the trustees do not part with any money.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 05, 2017, 01:40:27 AM
There was huge National concern about Shannon Matthews disappearance and a great deal of empathy for her distressed mother.
I took the Charity Missing People to be the one mentioned in the article as it was set up to assist the families of the missing. Step one ... approach made to Kate McCann Step two ... Kate McCann relays the request to the Charity for consideration Step three ... nobody hands over a sum of money like that without ensuring everything is kosher ~ on police advice, the trustees do not part with any money.
When did Kate get associated with Missing People?
Sharon Matthews had been found well before that, had she not? If I have got it wrong, I apologise.
If not, the Sun thinks the 25k would come from the Find Madeleine fund.
The fund was set up not set up as a charity, because it had a specific aim of searching for just one child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2017, 02:12:17 AM
The McCanns were associated with Missing People in 2008 ~ a relationship which developed over the years.
Maddie McCann's parents 'nearly tricked out of £25,000 by Karen Matthews'
Kate McCann thought Matthews was also going through the same agony of losing a daughter and asked Madeleine fund trustees to send cash
BYKEITH PERRY 23:03, 4 MAR 2017UPDATED23:09, 4 MAR 2017
Maddie McCann’s parents were nearly tricked out of £25,000 by evil Karen Matthews, it has been revealed.
Kate McCann thought Matthews was also going through the same agony of losing a daughter and asked Madeleine fund trustees to send cash.
Matthews’ nine-year-old girl Shannon went missing in 2008, less than a year after Madeleine, three, was snatched in Portugal.
A source close to Kate, 48, told The Sun : “She was deeply upset by Shannon’s abduction and felt sorry for the family. She wanted to help.
Matthews and pal Michael Donovan decided to contact the McCanns after seeing how their appeal raised £1million.
Donovan drugged Shannon and hid her at his home in Dewsbury, West Yorks, for 24 days.
The pair later confessed and were jailed for eight years.
A man claiming to represent Karen Matthews even visited Kate and hubby Gerry in Rothley, Leicestershire, to ask for money.
Trustees were tipped off when they contacted police over who should receive the cheque.
McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “Police advised us not to hand over money.
“We heard things had come to light in investigations.
“It is beyond belief anyone could’ve sought to exploit poor Madeleine’s plight.”. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddie-mccanns-parents-were-nearly-9967698
Has this been reported before? It seems remiss of Mr Mitchell to fail to get it into the newspapers at the time. I thought it was his job to make sure that positive stories were told in the media.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 05, 2017, 07:36:21 AM
Has this been reported before? It seems remiss of Mr Mitchell to fail to get it into the newspapers at the time. I thought it was his job to make sure that positive stories were told in the media.
Is it positive?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2017, 08:16:07 AM
Kind hearted Kate and Madeleine's Fund almost getting ripped off by evil con merchants? Oh yes. Ironically the Fund was being ripped off at the time by Oakley International for a lot more than £25k.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 05, 2017, 10:04:14 AM
Kind hearted Kate and Madeleine's Fund almost getting ripped off by evil con merchants? Oh yes. Ironically the Fund was being ripped off at the time by Oakley International for a lot more than £25k.
Not really a truly positive story.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 05, 2017, 10:40:44 AM
Has this been reported before? It seems remiss of Mr Mitchell to fail to get it into the newspapers at the time. I thought it was his job to make sure that positive stories were told in the media.
Writer Jack Monroe has won £24,000 damages in a High Court libel action against controversial columnist Katie Hopkins.
She says Hopkins' tweets caused "serious harm" to her reputation.
Monroe, who also campaigns on poverty issues, was asking a judge at the High Court in London to find that she was "defamed" by the former Apprentice contestant.
At the heart of the action is a posting on Twitter in May 2015.
At the time Monroe suggested an apology and £5,000 to migrant rescue might be cheaper!!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 10, 2017, 05:45:12 PM
Poor old Katie's costs are pushing the £130k mark I see. Perhaps a Hopkins Fund similar to the Amaral Fund is in order, or will that only get set up by her fan club in the event that she gets sued by the McCanns?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 16, 2017, 07:35:01 AM
'Maddie died in that apartment': Kate and Gerry McCann face fresh misery after Portuguese crime expert makes outrageous claim about the night she vanished
'Maddie died in that apartment': Kate and Gerry McCann face fresh misery after Portuguese crime expert makes outrageous claim about the night she vanished
....and more people are beginning to say what they really think about the Mccann's.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 16, 2017, 11:41:08 PM
So there seems to be a growing weight of criticism being heaped upon the McCanns shoulders by the media (vicariously, reporting hateful criticsm and suspicions by z-list clebs and two-bit so-called experts) as we approach the 10th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. Is the intention to break the McCanns? To make them crack, push them over the edge, kill them with 10years of mounting opprobrium with the promise of years more to come? Is that the only way that their detractors can hope to get their "justice 4 Maddie" and would the early death(s) of one or both parents be seen as some sort of victory by their detractors?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 17, 2017, 12:07:04 AM
So there seems to be a growing weight of criticism being heaped upon the McCanns shoulders by the media (vicariously, reporting hateful criticsm and suspicions by z-list clebs and two-bit so-called experts) as we approach the 10th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. Is the intention to break the McCanns? To make them crack, push them over the edge, kill them with 10years of mounting opprobrium with the promise of years more to come? Is that the only way that their detractors can hope to get their "justice 4 Maddie" and would the early death(s) of one or both parents be seen as some sort of victory by their detractors?
Heavens forbid!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 17, 2017, 07:45:09 AM
So there seems to be a growing weight of criticism being heaped upon the McCanns shoulders by the media (vicariously, reporting hateful criticsm and suspicions by z-list clebs and two-bit so-called experts) as we approach the 10th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. Is the intention to break the McCanns? To make them crack, push them over the edge, kill them with 10years of mounting opprobrium with the promise of years more to come? Is that the only way that their detractors can hope to get their "justice 4 Maddie" and would the early death(s) of one or both parents be seen as some sort of victory by their detractors?
Should the media voluntarily refrain from reporting hateful criticism and suspicions of the McCanns? If they don't refrain should they be forced to stop?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 17, 2017, 07:59:53 AM
Should the media voluntarily refrain from reporting hateful criticism and suspicions of the McCanns? If they don't refrain should they be forced to stop?
Good questions.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 08:20:26 AM
Should the media voluntarily refrain from reporting hateful criticism and suspicions of the McCanns? If they don't refrain should they be forced to stop?
I think the tabloid press are behaving mischievously at the moment. They know that there is still huge public interest in Madeleine McCann and that the name McCann helps to generate website clicks and newspaper sales. Therefore any opportunity to print anything some two-bit nonentity has to say on the subject is being used to this end. It enables the media to rehash the unfounded suspicions and hateful opinions of 10years ago without fear of getting sued if they present them with words of faux outrage and dismay wrapped around the story. We all know the media has no conscience and that it would quite happily kill the goose that laid the golden egg safe in the knowledge that another goose will be along shortly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 08:21:42 AM
As a reminder Rob. the media, by and large, has been supporting the McCann's for 8 years, and never questioning 'abduction'.
Mind you, Mitchell, never allowed questions about anything other than abduction in press conferences involving the Mccann's.
Has it actually occurred to you, and others, that many members of the press never believed in abduction, and merely toed the line due to threat of libel action from Carter-Ruck ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on March 17, 2017, 08:36:26 AM
So there seems to be a growing weight of criticism being heaped upon the McCanns shoulders by the media (vicariously, reporting hateful criticsm and suspicions by z-list clebs and two-bit so-called experts) as we approach the 10th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. Is the intention to break the McCanns? To make them crack, push them over the edge, kill them with 10years of mounting opprobrium with the promise of years more to come? Is that the only way that their detractors can hope to get their "justice 4 Maddie" and would the early death(s) of one or both parents be seen as some sort of victory by their detractors?
Peraps the fact that the criticism is made by "z-list celebrities" and two-bit so-called experts" will lessen the impact on the McCann family. I have know idea of what the detractors seek as a victory. Nothing the detractors have said has had any influence on the progress of the investigation and that will be of comfort to the family.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 17, 2017, 08:41:14 AM
As a reminder Rob. the media, by and large, has been supporting the McCann's for 8 years, and never questioning 'abduction'.
Mind you, Mitchell, never allowed questions about anything other than abduction in press conferences involving the Mccann's.
Has it actually occurred to you, and others, that many members of the press never believed in abduction, and merely toed the line due to threat of libel action from Carter-Ruck ?
Oh? Who are these 'members of the press'? Any chance of by lines?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 08:41:50 AM
Peraps the fact that the criticism is made by "z-list celebrities" and two-bit so-called experts" will lessen the impact on the McCann family. I have know idea of what the detractors seek as a victory. Nothing the detractors have said has had any influence on the progress of the investigation and that will be of comfort to the family.
You say 'z-list' celebrities. IMO, an accurate description of what the Mccanns tried to become.
As to Moita Flores, he was in the PJ at the time.
As to 'detractors' as you call them, they reflect what many people think about the case, and their taxes are being used in this 'investigation'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 08:43:13 AM
You say 'z-list' celebrities. IMO, an accurate description of what the Mccanns tried to become.
As to Moita Flores, he was in the PJ at the time.
As to 'detractors' as you call them, they reflect what many people think about the case, and their taxes are being used in this 'investigation'.
So the detractors all woke up one morning in a brilliant flash of light which determined their thought processes on the matter ... Hmmmm &%+((£
So no guidance whatsoever from the organised campaigning sites set up specifically to disseminate misinformation and bile directed towards Madeleine McCann and her family?
How droll.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 17, 2017, 09:46:09 AM
Do you seriously imagine, in a million years, that the Mccann's get undying support from all members of the media ?
What a surprise ... yet another completely unsubstantiated assertion making false claims about Madeleine McCann's parents.
If the press had any substantive dirt about the McCanns ... or any connected to them ... they would not nor would they ever have sat on it. They would have printed and sold papers. That after all is their raison d'être and it is what they do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 09:48:39 AM
So the detractors all woke up one morning in a brilliant flash of light which determined their thought processes on the matter ... Hmmmm &%+((£
So no guidance whatsoever from the organised campaigning sites set up specifically to disseminate misinformation and bile directed towards Madeleine McCann and her family?
How droll.
It wan't on one morning.
..and what of the sites, where Mccann supporters spew bile towards those who don't believe the McCann's, and attack people such as Amaral, Grime and others who dare question the McCann's ?
Or has that thought never crossed your horizon ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 17, 2017, 10:05:09 AM
I think the tabloid press are behaving mischievously at the moment. They know that there is still huge public interest in Madeleine McCann and that the name McCann helps to generate website clicks and newspaper sales. Therefore any opportunity to print anything some two-bit nonentity has to say on the subject is being used to this end. It enables the media to rehash the unfounded suspicions and hateful opinions of 10years ago without fear of getting sued if they present them with words of faux outrage and dismay wrapped around the story. We all know the media has no conscience and that it would quite happily kill the goose that laid the golden egg safe in the knowledge that another goose will be along shortly.
Although you chose not to answer my questions about control of the media, I'll ask another. You said;
Is the intention to break the McCanns? To make them crack, push them over the edge, kill them with 10years of mounting opprobrium with the promise of years more to come?
Is that the intention of the media in your honest opinion?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 17, 2017, 10:13:10 AM
Peraps the fact that the criticism is made by "z-list celebrities" and two-bit so-called experts" will lessen the impact on the McCann family. I have know idea of what the detractors seek as a victory. Nothing the detractors have said has had any influence on the progress of the investigation and that will be of comfort to the family.
The stories are being instigated by 'celebrities' and reported by the media. The only person introducing 'detractors' into the mix is Alfie. Who they might be he doesn't say. You seem to know who he means though; care to elaborate?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 10:14:00 AM
Although you chose not to answer my questions about control of the media, I'll ask another. You said;
Is the intention to break the McCanns? To make them crack, push them over the edge, kill them with 10years of mounting opprobrium with the promise of years more to come?
Is that the intention of the media in your honest opinion?
Many's the time I've asked you a question which you have chosen not to answer but I will answer your question. I don't believe in putting controls on the media, I just wish they were more responsible, I wish in vain of course. I don't suppose the media collectively sets out to push the McCanns to breaking point but I don't think they care less if the net result of their actions is that one or both of them is pushed too far. In fact, think of the mileage they could make out of a McCann breakdown, marriage break up, suicide, etc. So many extra clicks then, more money in the bank!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on March 17, 2017, 10:46:13 AM
The stories are being instigated by 'celebrities' and reported by the media. The only person introducing 'detractors' into the mix is Alfie. Who they might be he doesn't say. You seem to know who he means though; care to elaborate?
I don't know any of the detractors by name, but I assume Alfie meant those who rush to add their nasty comments about the mccanns at each and every opportunity.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 10:50:19 AM
I don't know any of the detractors by name, but I assume Alfie meant those who rush to add their nasty comments about the mccanns at each and every opportunity.
I don't think anyone would dispute the fact that there are a few dozen / hundred McCann detractors (for want of a better word that is proscribed on this forum) who post on social media daily on the subject of the McCanns, be it forums, facebook, twitter. That's who I'm talking about. One or two of them post here too, but they have to be more careful about what they say.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 10:51:23 AM
I don't know any of the detractors by name, but I assume Alfie meant those who rush to add their nasty comments about the mccanns at each and every opportunity.
...and what of those who launched vicious attacks on people such as Amaral, from the Mccann support ranks ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 17, 2017, 10:54:02 AM
I don't know any of the detractors by name, but I assume Alfie meant those who rush to add their nasty comments about the mccanns at each and every opportunity.
Are all the comments nasty? Is that because they say nasty things or because they disagree with the McCann's theory? Is it nasty to hold a different opinion or to remind people of the facts of the case?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on March 17, 2017, 11:07:31 AM
Many's the time I've asked you a question which you have chosen not to answer but I will answer your question. I don't believe in putting controls on the media, I just wish they were more responsible, I wish in vain of course. I don't suppose the media collectively sets out to push the McCanns to breaking point but I don't think they care less if the net result of their actions is that one or both of them is pushed too far. In fact, think of the mileage they could make out of a McCann breakdown, marriage break up, suicide, etc. So many extra clicks then, more money in the bank!
So your answer to your rhetorical question is no, the media are not setting out deliberately to 'break the McCanns'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 11:09:48 AM
Are all the comments nasty? Is that because they say nasty things or because they disagree with the McCann's theory? Is it nasty to hold a different opinion or to remind people of the facts of the case?
It seems the inference is, if you don't believe the McCann's story, even though an abduction has not bewen shown to have occurred, you must be a nasty person.
It really has become quite pathetic, in that respect.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 17, 2017, 11:16:17 AM
It seems the inference is, if you don't believe the McCann's story, even though an abduction has not bewen shown to have occurred, you must be a nasty person.
It really has become quite pathetic, in that respect.
Never a truer word spoken.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 11:17:26 AM
Are all the comments nasty? Is that because they say nasty things or because they disagree with the McCann's theory? Is it nasty to hold a different opinion or to remind people of the facts of the case?
No all the comments are not nasty but many of them are. Why would I think it is nasty to hold a different opinion? They can express their different opinion but it will not change whatever will be the final conclusion of the investigation. Their motivation for their behaviour is beyond my ken.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 11:22:39 AM
No all the comments are not nasty but many of them are. Why would I think it is nasty to hold a different opinion? They can express their different opinion but it will not change whatever will be the final conclusion of the investigation. Their motivation for their behaviour is beyond my ken.
I find the motivation for those who back the McCann's without hesitation, questionable.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 11:34:25 AM
So your answer to your rhetorical question is no, the media are not setting out deliberately to 'break the McCanns'.
Do you think the media deliberately set out to punish Brenda Leyland and push her to breaking point? In her case it only took a day or two, imagine the pressure of opprobrium after 10 years. Do you think the media behaved responsibly or should it be controlled in some way to prevent further Brenda Leyland-style tragedies?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on March 17, 2017, 11:38:48 AM
Do you think the media deliberately set out to punish Brenda Leyland and push her to breaking point? In her case it only took a day or two, imagine the pressure of opprobrium after 10 years. Do you think the media behaved responsibly or should it be controlled in some way to prevent further Brenda Leyland-style tragedies?
Brenda Leyland , was thought to be an easy target.
Why didn't Sky News let the Police investigate her first ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on March 17, 2017, 11:42:22 AM
No all the comments are not nasty but many of them are. Why would I think it is nasty to hold a different opinion? They can express their different opinion but it will not change whatever will be the final conclusion of the investigation. Their motivation for their behaviour is beyond my ken.
Whenever they are mentioned the words 'nasty' or 'vile' crop up nevertheless, even if they are just expressing a different opinion. Other favourite words seem to be 'orchestrated' and 'campaign', suggesting group activities.
I think that reminding the media and their readers that another point of view exists is a good thing. It might concentrate the minds of those investigating if they're aware that a lot of knowledge exists about the case amongst the general population. Any solution offered will have to account for that knowledge or the 'final conclusion' will be greeted with the same hilarity that Redwood encountered with his rather pathetic narrative about 'crecheman'.
Perhaps people are frustrated by the failure of the UK media to ever report the case in a balanced way? That might motivate them to point out the facts as they see them. If the facts are wrong the media could take on the task of correcting them, of course, if they so wished.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 12:11:52 PM
Whenever they are mentioned the words 'nasty' or 'vile' crop up nevertheless, even if they are just expressing a different opinion. Other favourite words seem to be 'orchestrated' and 'campaign', suggesting group activities.
I think that reminding the media and their readers that another point of view exists is a good thing. It might concentrate the minds of those investigating if they're aware that a lot of knowledge exists about the case amongst the general population. Any solution offered will have to account for that knowledge or the 'final conclusion' will be greeted with the same hilarity that Redwood encountered with his rather pathetic narrative about 'crecheman'.
Perhaps people are frustrated by the failure of the UK media to ever report the case in a balanced way? That might motivate them to point out the facts as they see them. If the facts are wrong the media could take on the task of correcting them, of course, if they so wished.
Define balanced. Furthermore, what evidence do you have that the general population has enough knowledge of the case to come to the conclusion that Redwood's narrative about crecheman was both hilarious and pathetic?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on March 17, 2017, 12:13:44 PM
Whenever they are mentioned the words 'nasty' or 'vile' crop up nevertheless, even if they are just expressing a different opinion. Other favourite words seem to be 'orchestrated' and 'campaign', suggesting group activities.
I think that reminding the media and their readers that another point of view exists is a good thing. It might concentrate the minds of those investigating if they're aware that a lot of knowledge exists about the case amongst the general population. Any solution offered will have to account for that knowledge or the 'final conclusion' will be greeted with the same hilarity that Redwood encountered with his rather pathetic narrative about 'crecheman'.
Perhaps people are frustrated by the failure of the UK media to ever report the case in a balanced way? That might motivate them to point out the facts as they see them. If the facts are wrong the media could take on the task of correcting them, of course, if they so wished.
The nasty comments are not the ones to be found in "letters to the editor" but the online newspaper comments. Many of them are vile and libellous and how they are allowed to remain is something of a mystery to me. In my opinion it is orchestrated and there is a concerted campaign by some, not all, of the detractors. I do not know what you mean by balanced? Surely the balance of reporting about the Mccanns has been thoroughly detrimental to them for the majority of time this case has been reported. I sincerely hope that anything discussed//debated or reported in the media does not in any way affect the minds of those who are tasked with the investigation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 12:16:34 PM
The nasty comments are not the ones to be found in "letters to the editor" but the online newspaper comments. Many of them are vile and libellous and how they are allowed to remain is something of a mystery to me. In my opinion it is orchestrated and there is a concerted campaign by some, not all, of the detractors. I do not know what you mean by balanced? Surely the balance of reporting about the Mccanns has been thoroughly detrimental to them for the majority of time this case has been reported. I sincerely hope that anything discussed//debated or reported in the media does not in any way affect the minds of those who are tasked with the investigation.
..................and what about Mccann supporter attacks on others ?
Or is your view of the world merely 1-dimensional ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 12:41:32 PM
The nasty comments are not the ones to be found in "letters to the editor" but the online newspaper comments. Many of them are vile and libellous and how they are allowed to remain is something of a mystery to me. In my opinion it is orchestrated and there is a concerted campaign by some, not all, of the detractors. I do not know what you mean by balanced? Surely the balance of reporting about the Mccanns has been thoroughly detrimental to them for the majority of time this case has been reported. I sincerely hope that anything discussed//debated or reported in the media does not in any way affect the minds of those who are tasked with the investigation.
Well exactly. It's a preposterous notion that the Met should be worried that a few oddbods find Redwood's assessment of crecheman to be hilarious and pathetic. I would hope that they were above such childish concerns and focussed instead entirely on the job at hand, and without feeling any pressure whatsoever to alter their focus to suit those who think they're not doing their jobs properly (an opinion formed without having access to the full picture anyway).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 17, 2017, 12:47:43 PM
The nasty comments are not the ones to be found in "letters to the editor" but the online newspaper comments. Many of them are vile and libellous and how they are allowed to remain is something of a mystery to me. In my opinion it is orchestrated and there is a concerted campaign by some, not all, of the detractors. I do not know what you mean by balanced? Surely the balance of reporting about the Mccanns has been thoroughly detrimental to them for the majority of time this case has been reported. I sincerely hope that anything discussed//debated or reported in the media does not in any way affect the minds of those who are tasked with the investigation.
Balanced? According to the media the McCanns are 'innocent, cleared, brave, tormented, anguished, pained and smeared' to name but a few. Their detractors are 'cruel, trolls, evil, sick and a baying mob' (Mitchell).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 12:54:30 PM
Balanced? According to the media the McCanns are 'innocent, cleared, brave, tormented, anguished, pained and smeared' to name but a few. Their detractors are 'cruel, trolls, evil, sick and a baying mob' (Mitchell).
How would you prefer the McCanns to be described then? Cowardly? Neglectful? Shifty? Liars? Laughing all the way to the bank? And the detractors? Justice seekers? Kind and considerate?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on March 17, 2017, 12:54:39 PM
..................and what about Mccann supporter attacks on others ?
Or is your view of the world merely 1-dimensional ?
Supporters and detractors making nasty comments about each other do not appear in the online comments of the newspaper, AFAIK.
We are discussing the "attacks" on the parents of a misssing little girl which appear every time there is an opportunity in the online comments section.
You accuse supporters of having a "Mccann bias", or spouting the "McCann mantra" or having a "one dimensional view of the world". The same accusation can be directed at you in your sustained efforts to decry everything McCann related.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 17, 2017, 01:01:11 PM
How would you prefer the McCanns to be described then? Cowardly? Neglectful? Shifty? Liars? Laughing all the way to the bank? And the detractors? Justice seekers? Kind and considerate?
I was replying to a post which described media reports as 'detrimental to the McCanns'. Clearly they are not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 01:55:57 PM
I was replying to a post which described media reports as 'detrimental to the McCanns'. Clearly they are not.
I disagree. I think the tab reports are clearly designed to put the boot in, even though they appear to be using sympathetic terms. It would be far less detrimental to the McCanns if they didn't report the vitriolic tweets of every Karen, Jodie and Katie but by doing so they succeed in whipping up even more bile and vitriol and they know it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 17, 2017, 04:08:59 PM
I disagree. I think the tab reports are clearly designed to put the boot in, even though they appear to be using sympathetic terms. It would be far less detrimental to the McCanns if they didn't report the vitriolic tweets of every Karen, Jodie and Katie but by doing so they succeed in whipping up even more bile and vitriol and they know it.
So they should only print stories favourable to the McCanns and allow no comments?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 04:51:10 PM
So they should only print stories favourable to the McCanns and allow no comments?
Did I say that?
Perhaps they should consider only printing stories that are genuine news, not tweets from twitter trolls and opinionated shite from "shock jocks" like Hopkins. Perhaps they should consider what it is like to be the parents of a missing child on the receiving end of the kind of comments their pretendy sympathetic non-stories engender and consider the effect on these parents, their kids and extended family.
But of course they won't, they couldn't give a stuff. And if one of them tops themselves, or one of the kids runs away or is bullied then they will print acres of words of faux-grief about it while greedily reaping the rewards such stories bring them.
PS: I note your refusal to answer my earlier question(s) as is your prerogative of course. Never let it be said however that I shirk from responding to yours!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 17, 2017, 05:19:05 PM
Perhaps they should consider only printing stories that are genuine news, not tweets from twitter trolls and opinionated shite from "shock jocks" like Hopkins. Perhaps they should consider what it is like to be the parents of a missing child on the receiving end of the kind of comments their pretendy sympathetic non-stories engender and consider the effect on these parents, their kids and extended family.
But of course they won't, they couldn't give a stuff. And if one of them tops themselves, or one of the kids runs away or is bullied then they will print acres of words of faux-grief about it while greedily reaping the rewards such stories bring them.
PS: I note your refusal to answer my earlier question(s) as is your prerogative of course. Never let it be said however that I shirk from responding to yours!
Most people with any awareness know that the media don't do responsible journalism, so no surprises there. I expect even the McCanns have worked it out by now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 05:21:56 PM
Most people with any awareness know that the media don't do responsible journalism, so no surprises there. I expect even the McCanns have worked it out by now.
Was that comment necessary? Were you unaware of the irresponsible journalism surrounding the case in 2007/2008 which led to the McCanns' appearance at the Leveson Inquiry? You just can't help yourself can you?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 17, 2017, 05:22:03 PM
Perhaps they should consider only printing stories that are genuine news, not tweets from twitter trolls and opinionated shite from "shock jocks" like Hopkins. Perhaps they should consider what it is like to be the parents of a missing child on the receiving end of the kind of comments their pretendy sympathetic non-stories engender and consider the effect on these parents, their kids and extended family.
But of course they won't, they couldn't give a stuff. And if one of them tops themselves, or one of the kids runs away or is bullied then they will print acres of words of faux-grief about it while greedily reaping the rewards such stories bring them.
PS: I note your refusal to answer my earlier question(s) as is your prerogative of course. Never let it be said however that I shirk from responding to yours!
If that happened Alfie, not a lot would get published on many subjects.
As we know the tabloids especially love salacious headlines.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 17, 2017, 05:36:50 PM
If that happened Alfie, not a lot would get published on many subjects.
As we know the tabloids especially love salacious headlines.
Salacious headlines, salacious copy. If there is a responsible tabloid reporting this case I am pig-ignorant of it. The 'quality' media are perhaps less salacious, but it is difficult to get sources that are both accurate and balanced.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 17, 2017, 05:41:11 PM
Was that comment necessary? Were you unaware of the irresponsible journalism surrounding the case in 2007/2008 which led to the McCanns' appearance at the Leveson Inquiry? You just can't help yourself can you?
One of the reasons why they should have worked it out by now, which I'm sure they have. Whether they meant to become people of interest to the media or not, that is what they are now. Just like the others who find themselves in that position they have to live with it. The alternative is censorship, and censorship is not an option with the internet in existence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 05:52:17 PM
One of the reasons why they should have worked it out by now, which I'm sure they have. Whether they meant to become people of interest to the media or not, that is what they are now. Just like the others who find themselves in that position they have to live with it. The alternative is censorship, and censorship is not an option with the internet in existence.
They have lived with it for 10 years and the hatred and vitriol which has recently been whipped up by tabloid news reports seems just as vigorous and fresh as it was in 2007. If I were them I would probably not be looking forward to spending the rest of my life as a hate object for so many people. If it were me I'd probably want to kill myself, or move to a little island in the middle of the Pacific with no internet connection and no TV. But then I'm probably not made of such strong and determined stuff as them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 17, 2017, 07:02:22 PM
They have lived with it for 10 years and the hatred and vitriol which has recently been whipped up by tabloid news reports seems just as vigorous and fresh as it was in 2007. If I were them I would probably not be looking forward to spending the rest of my life as a hate object for so many people. If it were me I'd probably want to kill myself, or move to a little island in the middle of the Pacific with no internet connection and no TV. But then I'm probably not made of such strong and determined stuff as them.
It is what it is, I'm afraid. Media attention is always a mixed blessing. I can see no solution and neither, I suspect, can you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 17, 2017, 07:06:23 PM
It is what it is, I'm afraid. Media attention is always a mixed blessing. I can see no solution and neither, I suspect, can you.
No, on that we are agreed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 18, 2017, 05:24:26 PM
I see another Attention Seeking Z-List Cleb Whore has seen fit to tweet his illiterate views on the McCanns in the hope presumably of generating some headline grabbing publicity. There is a definite theme (of "defiant" if you prefer the thicko's way of spelling the word) running here - repulsive so-called celebs with dubious moral standards themselves getting on their high horses about the McCanns in the hope of raising their own profiles. When is it ever going to end and why are the media so intent of scouring social media to tell us about it? They are clearly complicit now in this McCann bashing trend. Shame on them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 18, 2017, 05:35:46 PM
I see another Attention Seeking Z-List Cleb Whore has seen fit to tweet his illiterate views on the McCanns in the hope presumably of generating some headline grabbing publicity. There is a definite theme (of "defiant" if you prefer the thicko's way of spelling the word) running here - repulsive so-called celebs with dubious moral standards themselves getting on their high horses about the McCanns in the hope of raising their own profiles. When is it ever going to end and why are the media so intent of scouring social media to tell us about it? They are clearly complicit now in this McCann bashing trend. Shame on them.
Somebody must have been following this non-celebrity on Twitter for the story to arise in The Sun.
A couple of thoughts.
Is life in the UK so vapid that this nobody has 40k followers, allegedly?
The Sun (amongst others) seems to have turned on the McCanns. With The Sun it appears to be a case of biting the hand that feeds.
And I suspect it is going to get a lot worse over the next 6 weeks or so.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 18, 2017, 05:44:41 PM
I see another Attention Seeking Z-List Cleb Whore has seen fit to tweet his illiterate views on the McCanns in the hope presumably of generating some headline grabbing publicity. There is a definite theme (of "defiant" if you prefer the thicko's way of spelling the word) running here - repulsive so-called celebs with dubious moral standards themselves getting on their high horses about the McCanns in the hope of raising their own profiles. When is it ever going to end and why are the media so intent of scouring social media to tell us about it? They are clearly complicit now in this McCann bashing trend. Shame on them.
This was inevitable given the current state of affairs.
The current culprit is a major A hole, and one has only to look at his behaviour to see his double standards.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 18, 2017, 05:45:58 PM
THE family of a man interviewed over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have called on police to close the case.
By JAMES MURRAY, IN PRAIA DA LUZ PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Mar 19, 2017
They claim it lacks evidence, is casting a cloud over their lives and is unfair.
Their relative is one of three men living in the Algarve town of Praia da Luz named in the Portuguese press as “arguidos” – a legal term loosely translated as “suspects”.
Scotland Yard detectives felt the trio should be interviewed, as phone records suggested they were in contact when Madeleine was taken on May 3, 2007.
All denied having anything to with the three year old when interviewed three years ago by Portuguese detectives with Scotland Yard officers present.
Two have jobs and the other suffers from mental health problems.
He has told friends the continuing investigation is unjustified and is affecting his health. None can be named for legal reasons.
However, a sibling of one of the men said: “This investigation is just so unfair.
“My brother is 100 per cent innocent. He has spoken with police, like the others, but he cannot talk about it because of judicial secrecy laws in Portugal.
“He is working, has a responsible job and just wants to get on with his life without this cloud hanging over him.”
The man works on the Algarve in the tourism industry and has a wide circle of friends who are standing by him.
One said: “All this nonsense has affected him. He was the centre of the party years ago, before all this, and loved hanging out with his friends, going to parties, cycling around town and just having a good time.
“Now he likes to lead a quiet life and tells friends he wants all this to go away.
“Like everyone in Luz he wants the mystery to be solved.
“This investigation by Scotland Yard has gone on too long. If they can’t get anywhere, they should speak to the Portuguese authorities and let them formally close it down.
“The file would be shelved again and only opened if there is a significant development. That is more fair than having a cloud of suspicion hanging over the Algarve.”
The Home Office has given the Yard’s Operation Grange team £85,000 more, to fund the four-strong team, headed by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, who are looking into the case.
The Portuguese are in charge of the case and the Yard has to work closely with them to carry out enquiries.
Some newspapers in Portugal have suggested a man Scotland Yard want interviewed further – not one of the three men – had links to the Ocean Club, from where Madeleine went missing.
There was also a report that the Yard wants to speak to a homeless drifter on the Algarve, allegedly involved in petty theft on the day Madeleine disappeared.
As the 10th anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance approaches, Scotland Yard is considering what to do to capitalise on the global interest in the case.
So far officers have ruled out producing an “age progression” picture of what Madeline would look like at 13 and are reluctant to hold a press conference.
But a high-ranking officer may give television and radio interviews.
Madeleine’s parents Kate, 49, and Gerry McCann, 48, a heart expert, are considering giving one television interview, possibly to Piers Morgan or ITV News presenter Mary Nightingale.
THE family of a man interviewed over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have called on police to close the case.
By JAMES MURRAY, IN PRAIA DA LUZ PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, Mar 19, 2017
They claim it lacks evidence, is casting a cloud over their lives and is unfair.
Their relative is one of three men living in the Algarve town of Praia da Luz named in the Portuguese press as “arguidos” – a legal term loosely translated as “suspects”.
Scotland Yard detectives felt the trio should be interviewed, as phone records suggested they were in contact when Madeleine was taken on May 3, 2007.
All denied having anything to with the three year old when interviewed three years ago by Portuguese detectives with Scotland Yard officers present.
Two have jobs and the other suffers from mental health problems.
He has told friends the continuing investigation is unjustified and is affecting his health. None can be named for legal reasons.
However, a sibling of one of the men said: “This investigation is just so unfair.
“My brother is 100 per cent innocent. He has spoken with police, like the others, but he cannot talk about it because of judicial secrecy laws in Portugal.
“He is working, has a responsible job and just wants to get on with his life without this cloud hanging over him.”
The man works on the Algarve in the tourism industry and has a wide circle of friends who are standing by him.
One said: “All this nonsense has affected him. He was the centre of the party years ago, before all this, and loved hanging out with his friends, going to parties, cycling around town and just having a good time.
“Now he likes to lead a quiet life and tells friends he wants all this to go away.
“Like everyone in Luz he wants the mystery to be solved.
“This investigation by Scotland Yard has gone on too long. If they can’t get anywhere, they should speak to the Portuguese authorities and let them formally close it down.
“The file would be shelved again and only opened if there is a significant development. That is more fair than having a cloud of suspicion hanging over the Algarve.”
The Home Office has given the Yard’s Operation Grange team £85,000 more, to fund the four-strong team, headed by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall, who are looking into the case.
The Portuguese are in charge of the case and the Yard has to work closely with them to carry out enquiries.
Some newspapers in Portugal have suggested a man Scotland Yard want interviewed further – not one of the three men – had links to the Ocean Club, from where Madeleine went missing.
There was also a report that the Yard wants to speak to a homeless drifter on the Algarve, allegedly involved in petty theft on the day Madeleine disappeared.
As the 10th anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance approaches, Scotland Yard is considering what to do to capitalise on the global interest in the case.
So far officers have ruled out producing an “age progression” picture of what Madeline would look like at 13 and are reluctant to hold a press conference.
But a high-ranking officer may give television and radio interviews.
Madeleine’s parents Kate, 49, and Gerry McCann, 48, a heart expert, are considering giving one television interview, possibly to Piers Morgan or ITV News presenter Mary Nightingale.
Why have these arguidos failed to prove their innocence? They do realise that closing the case won't clear them don't they? At least they have the advantage of not being internationally known and hated, so they should count themselves lucky IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 19, 2017, 10:38:07 AM
Why have these arguidos failed to prove their innocence? They do realise that closing the case won't clear them don't they? At least they have the advantage of not being internationally known and hated, so they should count themselves lucky IMO.
My sentiments too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 20, 2017, 09:27:29 AM
' Kate and Gerry McCann vow to fight any prosecution for abandoning their children after Katie Hopkins demanded 'justice'
The parents of Maddie McCann have hit back at the outspoken reality star. '
They must still feel it is within the time limit of the statute of limitations for that charge.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on March 20, 2017, 09:55:13 AM
Get past the headlines,the headlines talk in present tense the articles talk in past tense.
The Mirror:The source insists: “Any legal action against them would have failed. A court would have to show Kate and Gerry had wilfully neglected their daughter and her siblings, and they did not. They would have robustly defended any charges, if brought.”
The Sun:MADELEINE McCann’s parents vowed they would have “fought tooth and nail” if they had ever been prosecuted for leaving their missing daughter and her twin brother and sister alone, a close pal has revealed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 20, 2017, 10:05:26 AM
I know what was meant, I was commenting on what was reported. Sloppy journalism.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2017, 12:04:18 AM
Monteiro, 40, a drug addict and ex Ocean Club worker, who died in a tractor accident in 2009, was also ruled out.
“Yes, he was a suspect but on the files that I saw there was no evidence that he was involved to the level that the Portuguese police thought” said Mr Edgar.
“My understanding is that they were convinced he had done it. They decided it was him. On what basis?” http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/someone-protecting-madeleine-mccann-kidnapper-10104793
Misty pointed out, "So the PJ were convinced it was Euclideswotdunit! Who forgot to tell the Appeal Court Judges about that fact?"
Dave Edgar is obviously quoting from the files we have not seen. It seems therefore that Euclides Monteiro was a suspect long before his name was released in 2013 when the Portuguese reopened the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.
The McCanns who must have known what was in that file, have been horribly traduced by the establishment in Portugal ... yet this information was sitting in a file being studiously ignored by those with the power to intervene while that was going on.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 27, 2017, 12:41:27 AM
Monteiro, 40, a drug addict and ex Ocean Club worker, who died in a tractor accident in 2009, was also ruled out.
“Yes, he was a suspect but on the files that I saw there was no evidence that he was involved to the level that the Portuguese police thought” said Mr Edgar.
“My understanding is that they were convinced he had done it. They decided it was him. On what basis?” http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/someone-protecting-madeleine-mccann-kidnapper-10104793
Misty pointed out, "So the PJ were convinced it was Euclideswotdunit! Who forgot to tell the Appeal Court Judges about that fact?"
Dave Edgar is obviously quoting from the files we have not seen. It seems therefore that Euclides Monteiro was a suspect long before his name was released in 2013 when the Portuguese reopened the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.
The McCanns who must have known what was in that file, have been horribly traduced by the establishment in Portugal ... yet this information was sitting in a file being studiously ignored by those with the power to intervene while that was going on.
I think you are off-base on multiple levels, so you may wish to rethink.
As we have just finally managed to purchase our house in Portelas (yes we finally own the beast, water is reconnected, electricity later today) I happen to be InterestedInPortelas. Not quite as snazzy as ShiningInLuz, but when one needs, one must.
First, take a look at the Mirror's block 5 in your link. Kindly note it is not block 5. This is par for the course for the Mirror.
After this stramash, are we expected to believe Edgar has access to files that we do not? Obviously, his PI report went to the McCanns, but that is not what he seems to be talking about.
Precisely when did Senhor Monteiro enter the public domain? This is no small point. I hope that in the next month or so I can have a chat with Sr Monteiro's widow or friends in Portelas so I'd like to get it right.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 27, 2017, 02:16:58 AM
I think you are off-base on multiple levels, so you may wish to rethink.
As we have just finally managed to purchase our house in Portelas (yes we finally own the beast, water is reconnected, electricity later today) I happen to be InterestedInPortelas. Not quite as snazzy as ShiningInLuz, but when one needs, one must.
First, take a look at the Mirror's block 5 in your link. Kindly note it is not block 5. This is par for the course for the Mirror.
After this stramash, are we expected to believe Edgar has access to files that we do not? Obviously, his PI report went to the McCanns, but that is not what he seems to be talking about.
Precisely when did Senhor Monteiro enter the public domain? This is no small point. I hope that in the next month or so I can have a chat with Sr Monteiro's widow or friends in Portelas so I'd like to get it right.
Congratulations on your move; I wish you and your family long and happy enjoyment of your new home.
In my opinion he is talking not about files he generated but about files he had sight of when working for the McCanns.
I did note the photograph used was not of Block 5; in my opinion the viewpoint is from Block 5 taking in Block 2 on the opposite side of R. Dr. Agostinho da Silva from Block 5. Anyway the photograph does not purport to be Block 5; the caption reads ... "Praia Da Luz Ocean Club Resort where Madeleine McCann went missing from flat 5a". Not even an error and who knows what the photo editor's intention was but in my opinion it means little to the body of the article in which it is clearly stated that the Policia Judiciaria suspected Euclides Montiero ... not the Brits ... the PJ.
Clearly they had a stranger suspect ... clearly they were aware of stranger abduction ... and in my opinion the determination was made as a result of the Rebelo investigation of late 2007\08 and the file seen was one of those not released into the public domain.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 27, 2017, 02:45:18 AM
As the 10th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance approaches we will be treated to more and more of these speculations which after all sell newspapers and are nice little earners for all concerned. Unfortunately though, none of this brings closure of this case any nearer.
Madeleine is still missing with the truth of her disappearance being as evasive as ever.
Someone is protecting Madeleine McCann's kidnappers' claims cop who spent years hunting her
Former Detective Inspector Dave Edgar says the motive for taking Madeleine was sexual and insists her parents had nothing to do with her disappearance
BY PAUL BYRNE, MARTIN FRICKER 26 MAR 2017
Someone is protecting Madeleine McCann’s kidnappers, says a detective who hunted for her for three years.
As Kate McCann faced her 10th Mother’s Day without Maddie, retired Det Insp Dave Edgar broke his silence for the first time to open his files.
Revealing findings, that a child-sex gang most likely took the three-year-old, he said: “Someone knows what happened and it’s time they came forward.”
Mr Edgar believes an abductor has secretly confessed to the crime and, speaking for the first time since his three-year private investigation into the 2007 disappearance, he said one of those involved will have opened-up to a friend or relative.
Calling for an end to the agony of Maddie’s parents Kate and Gerry, he pleaded: “If anyone confided in you, now is the time to come forward.”
One of the top experts on the case, he also believes:
There is no evidence to suggest Kate and Gerry were involved. It was a well planned abduction.
There was no evidence against two prime suspects of abducting her from Praia Da Luz in May. The motive for taking three-year-old Madeleine was sexual. There is still hope she is alive.
Former Det Insp Dave Edgar said he still has hope Madeleine may be alive.
He insists that Kate and Gerry McCann were not involved in their daughter's disappearance (Photo: PA) When the Metropolitan Police took over the search in 2011, Mr Edgar handed his files to the force.
But he has kept in contact with the probe and believes a new appeal could finally solve it.
He said: “Someone knows, it must be on someone’s conscience, please come forward.”
After Madeleine vanished from the McCanns’ Warner Ocean Club holiday flat, while her parents were dining with friends, Portuguese police named Kate and Gerry as “arguidos” or suspects.
But Mr Edgar dismisses that, flying in the face of last week’s Lisbon court decision to uphold the right of Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral to publish his book alleging Madeleine had died and the McCanns covered it up.
“I was looking at everything and that would include them,” he said.
“If I found any evidence against Kate and Gerry I would have given it to the police immediately. Kate and Gerry would expect no less. But I found no shred of evidence.
“We obviously look at all factors – motive, preparation, opportunity – and there was absolutely nothing.”
During his probe, paid for by the Find Madeleine Fund, Mr Edgar’s small team of investigators examined a number of potential suspects, including two of the most high profile names on the list, Raymond Hewlett and Euclides Monteiro.
Convicted UK paedophile Hewlett was living near the resort in 2007. He died, aged 64, of cancer in Germany in 2010.
Mr Edgar, 60, said: “He was high on the person of interest list as far as the press were concerned but he was someone who we just wanted to speak to and look at. In terms of fitting the profile, Hewlett would probably come as close as you would get to a main suspect.
But he added: “There was no hard and fast evidence because, if there had been, he would have been arrested.”
Monteiro, 40, a drug addict and ex Ocean Club worker, who died in a tractor accident in 2009, was also ruled out.
“Yes, he was a suspect but on the files that I saw there was no evidence that he was involved to the level that the Portuguese police thought” said Mr Edgar.
“My understanding is that they were convinced he had done it. They decided it was him. On what basis?”
So what did happen to Madeleine? Mr Edgar had a 30-year career with the RUC and Cheshire police and worked on high profile murder cases, including Shafilea Ahmed and Garry Newlove.
He has heard dozens of theories about Madeleine – that she had wandered off, and been run over, become the victim of a random burglar or taken by someone wanting to raise a child for themselves.
He believes it was a planned operation by a lone kidnapper or a gang.
He said: “There was a very narrow window of opportunity for them to get away with Madeleine. So it does point to it being planned and some level of surveillance, perhaps of the apartment.”
He added: “If the motive was gang-related child prostitution, there might have been more than one involved.”
And that’s where a breakthrough may come. He said: “They can’t keep it to themselves and research has shown they always confide in someone else.
“I think that someone else apart from the perpetrator knows and that is one of the best hopes of getting to the truth, that someone comes forward and says what they know.”
He says a cash reward, like those offered in the past, is unlikely to yield results, but an appeal to the heart might. Instead, he wants a police-backed European campaign.
Dave Edgar wants to appeal 'to the heart' to see if anyone will come forward (Photo: Daily Mirror) “I’m talking about TV, posters, letters, text messages, new technology. We’re talking Europe. Get the message out there.”
He fears whoever was responsible will have struck again. He said: “It’s the type of crime they cannot help themselves, certainly if it was sexually motivated.”
Like millions of others, the retired detective clings to the hope that Madeleine is still alive, possibly being held prisoner and potentially still in Portugal.
There have been a number of cases where victims have emerged after being held in captivity for years.
“Until such time that a body is found it is a live investigation and there is always hope,” he said.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 27, 2017, 07:50:49 AM
Now Edgar of course was employed on behalf of the Mccanns.
He has made various claims, such as Madeleine being in a lawless village, 10 miles from PDL.
There was the press conference headed by him and Mitchell, in regard to the the 'Beckham lookalike', which in reality was not investigated.
The Mail on Sunday, however, has established that members of Mr Edgar’s team who had visited Barcelona:
Failed to speak to anyone working at the seafood restaurant near where the agitated woman was seen at 2am.
Failed to ask the port authority about movement of boats around the time Madeleine disappeared.
Failed to ask if the mystery woman had been filmed on CCTV.
Knew nothing about the arrival of an Australian luxury yacht just after Madeleine vanished until told by British journalists, who gave them the captain’s mobile phone number.
Failed to interview anyone at a nearby dockside bar where, according to Mr Edgar, the mystery woman was later seen drinking.
Failed to ask British diplomats in Spain for advice before or during the visit.
Also, Spanish police could not confirm that they had been contacted by the British investigators.
Last night Mr Edgar said: ‘We are not above criticism and I take responsibility for any shortcomings. If somebody has not done what they should have done, that’s my job to deal with that.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1206842/Why-did-Madeleine-McCann-detectives-ask-questions.html#ixzz4cVPfhZSd Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Then he was in the company with Cowley, ‘Alpha Investigations group’, which was really run by Brian Kennedy.
Sigh.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 27, 2017, 12:46:21 PM
Members are again reminded that posts should be constructive and add to the debate. Members are allowed to express their own opinions but comments should not include attacks on other members. If this continues temporary bans will ensue.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 27, 2017, 01:13:53 PM
Australians have a different story in their papers
Comes complete with useful links to other facets of the McCann story
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 27, 2017, 02:49:45 PM
"Detective who spent years hunting Madeleine McCann claims 'someone is protecting kidnapper'" http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/detective-who-spent-years-hunting-madeleine-mccann-claims-someone-is-protecting-kidnapper/ar-BByQ5gJ?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=UP97DHP
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 27, 2017, 02:55:34 PM
"Detective who spent years hunting Madeleine McCann claims 'someone is protecting kidnapper'" http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/detective-who-spent-years-hunting-madeleine-mccann-claims-someone-is-protecting-kidnapper/ar-BByQ5gJ?li=BBqdg4K&ocid=UP97DHP
I wonder how much Edgar is pocketing from this syndication?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 27, 2017, 03:11:38 PM
I know Australia is a long, long way away and a bit behind the times, but really - is this news?
Was the 'a bit behind the times' jibe necessary?
It clearly is news. This chap is clearly doing a series of articles in preparation for the 10th anniversary. Quite whether anything worthwhile emerges remains to be seen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 27, 2017, 11:26:13 PM
It clearly is news. This chap is clearly doing a series of articles in preparation for the 10th anniversary. Quite whether anything worthwhile emerges remains to be seen.
Perhaps you would like to highlight the parts of this article that I was referring to that you consider news
"It clearly is news. This chap is clearly doing a series of articles in preparation for the 10th anniversary. Quite whether anything worthwhile emerges remains to be seen."
I cannot make the English any simpler.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 28, 2017, 12:52:36 AM
"It clearly is news. This chap is clearly doing a series of articles in preparation for the 10th anniversary. Quite whether anything worthwhile emerges remains to be seen."
I cannot make the English any simpler.
Some of it is news to me. For example ... "It was a reconstruction that the McCanns appeared reluctant to participate in - despite Portugal's police pleading its importance - and it was eventually aborted." is absolute nonsense.
According to the files ...
Public Ministry of Portimao Case Section Case 201/07 GALGS
Dear Sir Public prosecutor
Kate Marie Healy arguida in the case referred to above, having been notified (page 3947) expresses her availability to participate in the reconstruction of the events on the second of the dates suggested, in other words on the 15 and 16th of next May. Her husband, Gerry McCann has also already expressed his availability.
Some of it is news to me. For example ... "It was a reconstruction that the McCanns appeared reluctant to participate in - despite Portugal's police pleading its importance - and it was eventually aborted." is absolute nonsense.
According to the files ...
Public Ministry of Portimao Case Section Case 201/07 GALGS
Dear Sir Public prosecutor
Kate Marie Healy arguida in the case referred to above, having been notified (page 3947) expresses her availability to participate in the reconstruction of the events on the second of the dates suggested, in other words on the 15 and 16th of next May. Her husband, Gerry McCann has also already expressed his availability.
Do you believe for a moment that the tapas friends would have refused to participate had the McCanns encouraged them to do so? I bet there was plenty of behind the scenes conferring going on.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 28, 2017, 02:58:52 AM
Do you believe for a moment that the tapas friends would have refused to participate had the McCanns encouraged them to do so? I bet there was plenty of behind the scenes conferring going on.
Quite speculative, but certainly possible.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2017, 08:22:14 AM
"It clearly is news. This chap is clearly doing a series of articles in preparation for the 10th anniversary. Quite whether anything worthwhile emerges remains to be seen."
I cannot make the English any simpler.
The writer appears to have been reading the PJ files. Unless the subject discussed has been reported in Australia previously it may well be news to them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 28, 2017, 09:35:11 AM
"It clearly is news. This chap is clearly doing a series of articles in preparation for the 10th anniversary. Quite whether anything worthwhile emerges remains to be seen."
I cannot make the English any simpler.
Does your quote come from that article? How bizarre! Funny how the UK press is constantly being accused of re-hashing old news but when the Aussies do it, it's "news" - double standards innit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 28, 2017, 09:44:36 AM
The writer appears to have been reading the PJ files. Unless the subject discussed has been reported in Australia previously it may well be news to them.
Hence why I said Australia are a bit behind the times.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 28, 2017, 09:57:41 AM
Hence why I said Australia are a bit behind the times.
I think you'll find the UK media have never reported the ins and outs of the reconstruction in quite the same detail, with reference to the facts in the files.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 28, 2017, 10:33:25 AM
I think you'll find the UK media have never reported the ins and outs of the reconstruction in quite the same detail, with reference to the facts in the files.
I think you mean "with quite the same bias" and with quotes for self-styled Criminal Profiler Pat Brown. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 28, 2017, 10:44:20 AM
Does your quote come from that article? How bizarre! Funny how the UK press is constantly being accused of re-hashing old news but when the Aussies do it, it's "news" - double standards innit.
What I have seen in the UK media seems to contain the same errors that crept in to the reporting very early on. Gordon Rayner of the UK Telegraph is still stating, erroneously, that the first call to the police was made at 10.14pm, an error which can be dated as far back as Sep 2007. His article then continues to the effect that this is the only concrete evidence we have, which is another glaring error. It would appear Mr Rayner has not bothered to read the PJ Files. Nor does he follow this forum or read my blog, because if he did, he would not be making the same errors nearly 10 years on.
Mark Saunokonoko appears to me to have read the PJ Files and Australia is getting a higher quality summary of the contents than I can find elsewhere.
If you think his articles are in error, perhaps you should consider critiquing them. As I said, I expect more from him in the run-up to the 10th anniversary, and the simple fact that a media outlet in Australia was doing this was news to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 28, 2017, 10:52:58 AM
What I have seen in the UK media seems to contain the same errors that crept in to the reporting very early on. Gordon Rayner of the UK Telegraph is still stating, erroneously, that the first call to the police was made at 10.14pm, an error which can be dated as far back as Sep 2007. His article then continues to the effect that this is the only concrete evidence we have, which is another glaring error. It would appear Mr Rayner has not bothered to read the PJ Files. Nor does he follow this forum or read my blog, because if he did, he would not be making the same errors nearly 10 years on.
Mark Saunokonoko appears to me to have read the PJ Files and Australia is getting a higher quality summary of the contents than I can find elsewhere.
If you think his articles are in error, perhaps you should consider critiquing them. As I said, I expect more from him in the run-up to the 10th anniversary, and the simple fact that a media outlet in Australia was doing this was news to me.
Fancy that, a Telegraph reporter not subscribing to your blog, how very remiss of him. I don't think I ever said that the article question was "in error" merely that it was not "news". You appear to think it is "news" - and it would seem you also appear to think it is unbiased (quoting as it does the completely unbiased Pat Brown - lol). Your prerogative I guess... &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 28, 2017, 11:18:53 AM
Fancy that, a Telegraph reporter not subscribing to your blog, how very remiss of him. I don't think I ever said that the article question was "in error" merely that it was not "news". You appear to think it is "news" - and it would seem you also appear to think it is unbiased (quoting as it does the completely unbiased Pat Brown - lol). Your prerogative I guess... &%+((£
That roughly summarises what was wrong with your line of thought on this.
You have ignored the point that Australia running a series of articles on this constitutes news in itself. AFAIK, Australian media is under no obligation to cover the 10th anniversary in the way that UK media will or Portuguese media will.
You may not be interested in how other countries are covering this event, but it looks like other forum members do.
The only personal assessment I have given on it is that it seems to have a basis in the PJ Files, and therefore some advantages over the UK media, where I cannot find such a source.
I will leave it to individual forum members to make up their own minds as to whether the articles are biased or not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on March 28, 2017, 12:16:47 PM
Oh I see - a journalist in Australia covering the 10th anniversary is a newsworthy event. Right. Gotcha. *&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on March 28, 2017, 12:18:49 PM
Some of it is news to me. For example ... "It was a reconstruction that the McCanns appeared reluctant to participate in - despite Portugal's police pleading its importance - and it was eventually aborted." is absolute nonsense.
According to the files ...
Public Ministry of Portimao Case Section Case 201/07 GALGS
Dear Sir Public prosecutor
Kate Marie Healy arguida in the case referred to above, having been notified (page 3947) expresses her availability to participate in the reconstruction of the events on the second of the dates suggested, in other words on the 15 and 16th of next May. Her husband, Gerry McCann has also already expressed his availability.
Not absolute nonsense according to a 'family friend';
The friend said the McCanns, both doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire, believe it would have done 'absolutely nothing' to help find their daughter not least because police had refused requests to televise it.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1022373/Madeleine-reconstruction-scrapped-suspicious-McCanns-refuse-return-Portugal-part.html#ixzz4ccQmHToD Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 28, 2017, 12:29:25 PM
I am of the opinion that "missing children" is trending in Australia right now, with the news of an arrest in the historical Cheryl Grimmer case. http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/03/23/00/20/man-arrested-over-1970-abduction-and-murder-of-cheryl-grimmer-on-nsw-beach
The Mail over there also ran an irrelevant story on the parents of missing toddler William Tyrrell this week. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4337588/William-Tyrrell-s-parents-769k-home-renovation.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 29, 2017, 11:33:29 PM
Fury over online petition calling for Madeleine McCann's parents to take a LIE DETECTOR test about their daughter's disappearance Almost 27,000 people signed the crass petition on the Care2 Petitions website A source close to the McCanns slammed the petition as 'nonsense' The tenth anniversary of their Madeline's disappearance will be on May 3
By Hannah Al-Othman For MailOline PUBLISHED: 22:59, 29 March 2017 | UPDATED: 23:14, 29 March 2017
Tens of thousands of people have signed a petition calling for Madeleine McCann's parents Kate and Gerry to take a lie detector test. Almost 27,000 people have so far put their names to the crass petition, which calls on the couple to take a voluntary test. The new campaign, on website Care2 Petitions, will no doubt bring fresh heartache for the McCanns, who will face the tenth anniversary of their daughter's disappearance on May 3. The unnamed organisers of the petition claimed they wanted to gather 100,000 signatures so that the issue could be debated by Parliament. However, the petition is not listed on the official Downing Street petitions website, which means it has no chance of being debated by MPs. A source close to the McCanns slammed the petition, telling the Sun: 'Kate and Gerry will not do a lie detector test because they've got nothing to lie about. 'It's just nonsense to suggest they have.' Three-year-old Madeleine disappeared from Portuguese resort Praia da Luz in May 2007 as her parents were dining at a nearby tapas bar. Kate, 49, and Gerry, 48, are bracing themselves for the painful milestone 10th anniversary of their daughter's disappearance in just five weeks. The couple, from Rothley, Leicestershire, are clinging on to a glimmer of hope that the girl, who would now be aged 13, nearly 14, could still be alive. Madeline McCann would now be aged 13, nearly 14-years-old +5 Madeline McCann would now be aged 13, nearly 14-years-old Maddie's parents were recently hit with a fresh blow of anguish after a long civil battle. Last month, The Portuguese Supreme Court ruled they had not proved they were innocent in the disappearance. The McCanns accused the Supreme Court judges who ruled against them in their court fight with ex-police chief Goncalo Amaral of nonsensical 'contradictions'.
Furious Gerry and Kate made it clear through lawyers that they strongly disagreed with the judges' 'erroneous' premise the lifting of their status as 'arguidos' or formal suspects did not mean they were innocent of any involvement in their daughter's May 3, 2007 disappearance. Portugal's Supreme Court issued its devastating put-down in February when it backed Amaral over his hurtful 2008 book 'The Truth of the Lie', in which he claimed the McCanns faked Madeleine's abduction to cover up her death in their Algarve holiday apartment. Earlier in March, Portuguese crime expert Moita Flores made the outrageous claim Madeleine died in an apartment in the resort. The hunt to find missing Madeline, which has cost more than £12 million, could be in its last year as topped-up funds are set to run out at the end of March. =======================================================================
So many petitions, so little time.....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on March 30, 2017, 09:30:38 PM
I see that Kate Mccann's friend, Tracey Kandhola has 'written' another article in the sun about Amaral's new book.
I am sure that will help the book sales.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 30, 2017, 09:37:33 PM
I see that Kate Mccann's friend, Tracey Kandhola has 'written' another article in the sun about Amaral's new book.
I am sure that will help the book sales.
Will it be available in the UK, though?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 10, 2017, 08:14:47 AM
I have just bought "Vanished: The Truth About the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann by Danny Collins"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 16, 2017, 07:34:44 AM
As I predicted, the B.S. stories are appearing prior to May the 3 rd.
...and anyone who says the McCann aren't still being protected by some parties including the press, clearly are denying the truth.
'HE WANTS TO SQUEEZE EVERY PENNY' Cop who led initial hunt for Madeleine McCann shamelessly vows to ‘clean out’ her parents by suing them for damaging his reputation.
'The McCanns won a libel case against Goncalo Amaral in 2015 after he claimed they covered up Maddie's death, but the decision was later overturned' i
'He is also still working on his second book on the case despite claims to the contrary'
As I predicted, the B.S. stories are appearing prior to May the 3 rd.
...and anyone who says the McCann aren't still being protected by some parties including the press, clearly are denying the truth.
'HE WANTS TO SQUEEZE EVERY PENNY' Cop who led initial hunt for Madeleine McCann shamelessly vows to ‘clean out’ her parents by suing them for damaging his reputation.
'The McCanns won a libel case against Goncalo Amaral in 2015 after he claimed they covered up Maddie's death, but the decision was later overturned' i
'He is also still working on his second book on the case despite claims to the contrary'
As I predicted, the B.S. stories are appearing prior to May the 3 rd.
...and anyone who says the McCann aren't still being protected by some parties including the press, clearly are denying the truth.
'HE WANTS TO SQUEEZE EVERY PENNY' Cop who led initial hunt for Madeleine McCann shamelessly vows to ‘clean out’ her parents by suing them for damaging his reputation.
'The McCanns won a libel case against Goncalo Amaral in 2015 after he claimed they covered up Maddie's death, but the decision was later overturned' i
'He is also still working on his second book on the case despite claims to the contrary'
8((()*/ Now, wasn't there a school of thought that said the UK media had turned against the McCanns since the odious little man's court victory and that the MSM would never dare be critical of him again? Good to see that myth put to bed so emphatically! @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 16, 2017, 11:53:38 AM
8((()*/ Now, wasn't there a school of thought that said the UK media had turned against the McCanns since the odious little man's court victory and that the MSM would never dare be critical of him again? Good to see that myth put to bed so emphatically! @)(++(*
How many newspapers allow comments and the Sun articles are extremely one sided.
Kate McCann's good friend I presume had a hand in that.
8**8:/:
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on April 16, 2017, 11:57:08 AM
What really turns my stomach is the Murdochs, the sleazy News Corp UK & Ireland Limited (previously News International Corporation) and the criminals who work for it who should be in jail for their crimes. Murdoch and Fox should never be allowed to control Sky otherwise we in the UK will be subject to even more Americanised propaganda never before seen this side of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 16, 2017, 12:01:39 PM
The Tabloids will push any angle if they think it will make money.
If the stuff being pumped out of the Sun newspaper recently is anything to go by then some sort of deal has been done with the McCann camp ahead of the tenth anniversary. The charming Rebekah Brooks is CEO of the Murdoch controlled News Corp UK & Ireland Limited which in turn owns the Sun newspaper. Her sleazy paws are all over these latest stories attempting to demonise Amaral despite the Portuguese courts rulings. Yet again the Sun newspaper has set itself up above the law. I'm sure they must be so proud of their sleazeball Sun columnist Kelvin McKenzie and his latest racist rants.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on April 16, 2017, 12:13:24 PM
If the stuff being pumped out of the Sun newspaper recently is anything to go by then some sort of deal has been done with the McCann camp ahead of the tenth anniversary. The charming Rebekah Brooks is CEO of the Murdoch controlled News Corp UK & Ireland Limited which in turn owns the Sun newspaper. Her sleazy paws are all over these latest stories attempting to demonise Amaral despite the Portuguese courts rulings. Yet again the Sun newspaper has set itself up above the law. I'm sure they must be so proud of their sleazeball Sun columnist Kelvin McKenzie and his latest racist rants.
Isn't Kelvin a bit of a McCan sceptic hero?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 16, 2017, 12:50:23 PM
If the stuff being pumped out of the Sun newspaper recently is anything to go by then some sort of deal has been done with the McCann camp ahead of the tenth anniversary. The charming Rebekah Brooks is CEO of the Murdoch controlled News Corp UK & Ireland Limited which in turn owns the Sun newspaper. Her sleazy paws are all over these latest stories attempting to demonise Amaral despite the Portuguese courts rulings. Yet again the Sun newspaper has set itself up above the law. I'm sure they must be so proud of their sleazeball Sun columnist Kelvin McKenzie and his latest racist rants.
These headlines reek of desperation on behalf of those who back the Mccanns.
As to the Sun, what hasn't been said before.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 16, 2017, 12:52:58 PM
These headlines reek of desperation on behalf of those who back the Mccanns.
As to the Sun, what hasn't been said before.
It's quite amusing really watching the 'news' since the SC ruling. So many sympathy attempts.
The Fund is going to be wiped out! Kate's book is having it's copyright breached! Gerry saves lives! The Webmaster is having a breakdown! Amaral's writing another book! McCann trolls can't be cured! Kate's got a choir!
Etc. Etc.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 16, 2017, 05:44:09 PM
It's quite amusing really watching the 'news' since the SC ruling. So many sympathy attempts.
The Fund is going to be wiped out! Kate's book is having it's copyright breached! Gerry saves lives! The Webmaster is having a breakdown! Amaral's writing another book! McCann trolls can't be cured! Kate's got a choir!
Etc. Etc.
Yep, it's predictably pathetic, just like the whining of the mccanns and certain sections of their supporters.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 16, 2017, 05:49:21 PM
You seemed to approve of his critical article about the McCanns not that long ago http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7246.msg334011#msg334011
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 16, 2017, 07:11:58 PM
You seemed to approve of his critical article about the McCanns not that long ago http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7246.msg334011#msg334011
Personally, I can't stand the man, and that won't change.
Rather like Katie Hopkins.
Now, she doesn't like me at all. 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 17, 2017, 12:37:37 AM
Is there any word yet on a new GFM appeal to help the poor ex-detective try to bankrupt the parents of a missing child, thus abandoning his right to be described as honourable, humble & dignified?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 17, 2017, 01:34:45 AM
Is there any word yet on a new GFM appeal to help the poor ex-detective try to bankrupt the parents of a missing child, thus abandoning his right to be described as honourable, humble & dignified?
So you believe everything you read in the current bun ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 17, 2017, 01:57:00 AM
Is there any word yet on a new GFM appeal to help the poor ex-detective try to bankrupt the parents of a missing child, thus abandoning his right to be described as honourable, humble & dignified?
He doesn't need a GFM appeal, he has regained access to his own funds after being prevented by the McCanns for seven years.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 17, 2017, 01:32:24 PM
Nanny who looked after Madeleine McCann has broken her silence after 10 years Said she is haunted by the image of Gerry McCann desperately trying to find her Child minder said Madeleine's devastated mother Kate cried, 'They've taken her' By Amie Gordon For Mailonline PUBLISHED: 22:34, 17 April 2017 | UPDATED: 23:12, 17 April 2017
A child minder who looked after Madeleine McCann has broken her silence nearly ten years after the three-year-old went missing. The witness, who was working at the Portuguese resort where Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007, said she is still haunted by the night's events a decade on. She said Gerry McCann desperately tried to find his missing daughter as his wife Kate wailed, 'They've taken her'.
The woman, who has not been named, reportedly looked after Madeleine several times. She told The Mirror the resort Madeleine vanished from was considered so unsafe nannies were given rape whistles and told not to go out alone. The nanny claimed the resort Madeleine vanished from was considered unsafe +6 She also criticised how Portuguese police handled the incident. She said: '[Kate] was pacing up and down. The worst possible thing had just happened to her. 'She was crying, but almost in a catatonic state, and Gerry was very distressed. 'That's the one thing I really remember from him, looking under the cars. I can't forget that.' The woman also claimed police missed out 'whole chunks' of information during their investigation and took some 90 minutes to arrive at the scene. She said there was 'no way' the McCann's had any involvement in their daughter's disappearance. Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine were last month given an £85,000 ‘last throw of the dice’ after identifying a new ‘person of interest’. The hunt had been due to end within weeks but extra cash was found to explore a lead in the investigation, which is nearly a decade old. An insider said police had found a person who was close by when the three-year-old went missing while on holiday in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz in 2007.
The source said: ‘There is just one person who detectives want to speak to, who was near the area where Madeleine disappeared almost ten years ago. An international search has been under way to find them.’ The Portuguese press reported that ‘police are understood to have clues pointing to the existence of a new suspect’, but it was not said whether it was a man or a woman.
A report in newspaper Correio da Manha read: ‘This new suspect is believed to be Portuguese and was apparently seen near the Ocean Club, where Kate and Gerry McCann were staying with their children when Madeleine disappeared. ‘British police are understood to be preparing to question this new suspect.’ Kate and Gerry McCann were said to be ‘very grateful’ for the continued funding amid fears the £11.1million investigation into Maddie’s disappearance, which is codenamed Operation Grange, was about to be shelved.
Senior Yard officers see the development as the ‘last throw of the dice’. A family spokesman said: ‘Kate and Gerry remain incredibly grateful to the Home Office and the Met Police for the continued work into the search for their daughter.’ A close friend of former GP Kate, 49, and heart doctor Gerry, 48, said: ‘They have never given up hope of finding out what happened to Madeleine, and believe she could be alive. ‘They appreciate the Met Police’s help and know they are doing everything possible for a resolution.’
see also http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-really-happened-night-madeleine-10245222
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 18, 2017, 12:41:21 AM
And so it begins, as predicted, the old stories are starting to be rehashed again as the tenth anniversary approaches.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 18, 2017, 12:49:21 AM
And so it begins, as predicted, the old stories are starting to be rehashed again as the tenth anniversary approaches.
I don't see anything wrong with that, John, particularly as there is still so much in daily circulation on the internet which is just plain malicious and vindictive. There must be a counterbalance to that and at least MSM prints with a weather eye to libel laws giving the chance that they will go to print with greater accuracy than the keyboard warriors of the internet bother about.
Even so there are still little points of information which are still capable of causing a raised eyebrow.
For example ... what on earth happened to the rest of the former nanny's statement which was missing two pages when forwarded to Scotland Yard? Which begs the question ... what may be missing from other statements given to the police and how much vital information may have been lost as a result?
What REALLY happened the night Madeleine McCann disappeared as nanny breaks her 10-year silence
She also told how she was interviewed by officers in the wake of Madeleine’s disappearance and later detectives from the Met’s Operation Grange handed her two pages of statements they had retrieved from their Algarve compratiots.
Her original statement was four to five pages long, but the one the Portuguese had been working from was only two pages long – missing a number of details from her interview. The woman claimed “whole chunks of information were missed out”. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-really-happened-night-madeleine-10245222
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 18, 2017, 01:09:42 AM
"Broken her silence after 10 years" "Rape whistles" "Don't go out alone"
Not rehashed stories by any stretch of the imagination.
The Mirror has joined the vultures and syndicated the story out to just about every regional newspaper so a few choice uncorroborated and scornful claims always go down well. I would say this story is yet another load of cobblers and challenge said nanny, if she even exists, to identify herself and make her claims publicy instead of hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2017, 01:11:06 AM
"Broken her silence after 10 years" "Rape whistles" "Don't go out alone"
Not rehashed stories by any stretch of the imagination.
She also gave a first hand heartrending account of the state Madeleine's parents were in. Something which is seldom given much consideration by those who seem to imagine that losing a daughter equates nearly as much as losing a kitten might be.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2017, 01:15:19 AM
The Mirror has joined the vultures and syndicated the story out to just about every regional newspaper so a few choice claims always go down well. I would say this story is yet another load of cobblers and challenge said nanny, if she even exists, to identify herself and make her claims publicy instead of hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.
You've really got to be joking that any sentient individual who has a good word to say about the McCanns is going to open themselves to the inevitable hate fest they would have to endure as a result of 'going public'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 18, 2017, 01:18:48 AM
You've really got to be joking that any sentient individual who has a good word to say about the McCanns is going to open themselves to the inevitable hate fest they would have to endure as a result of 'going public'.
I would say the Mirror and their collaborator have made the entire thing up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 18, 2017, 01:26:25 AM
I would say the Mirror and their collaborator have made the entire thing up.
That's almost as ridiculous as someone saying that "Team McCann" was behind the story of Amaral wanting to bankrupt the parents for the damage done to his reputation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 18, 2017, 02:34:55 AM
That's almost as ridiculous as someone saying that "Team McCann" was behind the story of Amaral wanting to bankrupt the parents for the damage done to his reputation.
People cannot believe a word these newspapers print any more as the Leveson Inquiry has effectivelyended up a whitewash. They will print any garbage if it sells their tatty wares.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 18, 2017, 03:30:27 AM
"Broken her silence after 10 years" "Rape whistles" "Don't go out alone"
Not rehashed stories by any stretch of the imagination.
It was similar to the report I saw before where it appeared the staff were under pressure to lie. If you don't remember her interview was saved on a HiDeHo you Tube and there was an enormous uproar. What was her name again? I can't recall it but I thought it was starting with an "M".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2017, 07:10:27 AM
"Broken her silence after 10 years" "Rape whistles" "Don't go out alone"
Not rehashed stories by any stretch of the imagination.
The most interesting bit for me was in the Mirror version of this article and it refers to the abbreviated statements that the PJ were using ie: not the full statements given at the time so much of the detail is missing from the files, as we suspected.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 18, 2017, 09:28:06 AM
The Mirror has joined the vultures and syndicated the story out to just about every regional newspaper so a few choice uncorroborated and scornful claims always go down well. I would say this story is yet another load of cobblers and challenge said nanny, if she even exists, to identify herself and make her claims publicy instead of hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.
Do you really want her to face the troll shitstorm that would inevitably fall down on her head if she were named?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 18, 2017, 09:29:32 AM
The most interesting bit for me was in the Mirror version of this article and it refers to the abbreviated statements that the PJ were using ie: not the full statements given at the time so much of the detail is missing from the files, as we suspected.
Really ?
This is merely and undeniably a planted story prior to the 3 rd May.
IMO of course.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 18, 2017, 09:33:20 AM
If you read yesterday's Mirror article carefully you will see Cat Baker is named, so the anonymous nanny can't be her.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 19, 2017, 10:22:00 PM
More barrel-scraping.
The holidaymaker, who wished to remain anonymous, said she is confident she saw the child in Morocco on May 9, 2007, six days after the three-year-old vanished.
I have just spoken to MARIE OLLI - POLLARD (19/05/62(sic) ) in more detail. She has spoken with SKY NEWS, ITN NEWS, THE LEICESTER MERCURY & NSY regarding her reported sighting. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Mari_Olli.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 20, 2017, 09:29:14 AM
Interesting that Gerry was looking underneath cars. If he was doing that he can't have thought that Kate was right about her theory that Madeleine was abducted. https://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/watch/35082312/maddy-mccanns-nanny-recounts-that-fateful-night/#page1
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2017, 10:51:18 AM
Interesting that Gerry was looking underneath cars. If he was doing that he can't have thought that Kate was right about her theory that Madeleine was abducted. https://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/watch/35082312/maddy-mccanns-nanny-recounts-that-fateful-night/#page1
Another one who was there;
Mr Woolfall says that he heard no suggestion in the early days that the girl had been snatched. "Certainly I did not hear any discussion that this could be a paedophile or an aggravated robbery. All the time I was around it was whether she could have wandered off and had an accident or somebody had actually taken her in, perhaps not with ill-intent. http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?p=261728&sid=2abe6aab8d68b68af55990eabd1f3fbd
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2017, 01:08:13 PM
Mr Woolfall says that he heard no suggestion in the early days that the girl had been snatched. "Certainly I did not hear any discussion that this could be a paedophile or an aggravated robbery. All the time I was around it was whether she could have wandered off and had an accident or somebody had actually taken her in, perhaps not with ill-intent. http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?p=261728&sid=2abe6aab8d68b68af55990eabd1f3fbd
Don't these extinct blogs carry interesting information sometimes. Websleuths have managed to salvage quite a bit from what was happening at the time copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com...7741018&page=6 post # 88 which is no longer on line.
I'm reading through reactions to the occasion when Alípio Ribeiro upset the apple cart by expressing the opinion that Kate and Gerry McCann had been constituted arguidos too hastily ... for example ...
Quote Alípio Ribeiro - Today, at this distance, with the experience I have as a public prosecutor - although the constitution of defendants in investigations ... the Director of the Judicial Police does not give orders - perhaps another evaluation should have been made. I have no doubt about that.
- Was there some precipitation?
- There was some precipitation. end quote
That certainly caused quite an upset. But of interest is Goncalo Amaral's role in the affair which we are always informed was not his decision alone but a corporate one.
Maddie case prompts crisis within Justice Director's statements open new war at the PJ
After having set Gonçalo Amaral aside because of public statements from the officer that was in charge of the Maddie case investigation, the national director is now under fire for having said, also publicly, that there was 'precipitation' from the entity that he directs and from the Public Ministry in constituting the McCanns as arguidos.
Alipio Ribeiro's statements contradict what he defended himself about the Maddie case earlier on (see column with citations) and are classified as 'very serious' by judges and prosecutors, but also by high-ranking officials within the Judiciaria, who did not appreciate the director's stance. CM asked the Ministry of Justice whether Alipio Ribeiro, a longtime friend of [Justice Minister] Alberto Costa, has the necessary conditions to remain in his post, but until this edition closed, there was no reply. The Public Prosecutor's Office has also remained silent.
An exclusive decision for the PJ
The Public Ministry agreed, but the decision to make Kate and Gerry McCann arguidos was taken by Goncalo Amaral, a coordinator at the PJ and the official who was formerly in charge of the case. He took "a decision that was exclusively from the PJ, which has autonomy within the investigation", a senior police officer recalls for CM. And he adds: "The national director speaks of precipitation now, based on his experience as a prosecutor within the Public Ministry - but, by doing this, he is distancing himself from the entity that he directs, in order to position himself alongside the magistrature."
Alipio Ribeiro's statements didn't go well with the PJ's high-ranking officials, having been seen "once again" as coming from "someone who does not defend his police, and who likes to reaffirm his status as a magistrate under these situations - more balanced than policemen when it is time to make decisions".
Another leading PJ official says that this is not the first time that the national director has surprised with his public statements. When he was questioned by journalists over the role that the Public Ministry's special team, lead by prosecutor Helena Fazenda, has in fighting crime in Oporto nightlife, Alipio Ribeiro said it was "to investigate. But he showed a complete lack of knowledge because the processes that concern those crimes were already being investigated by the PJ in Oporto..." http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=9&p=200 Link no longer active
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2017, 01:29:05 PM
Something which was later explained more fully after he was taken to task for speaking out about ongoing cases;
While a source close to the national director of the PJ said to the CM that when he spoke of "hastiness", he was misinterpreted.............. the words of the director were in the sense that, if Kate and Gerry had been maintained witnesses, as they would become under the new penal prosecution code (CPP), "perhaps they should not have left so soon for England. And they would be more cooperative with the Justice". http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?p=44166&sid=06c2af4b601d7e7dd5c0e06bb675f347
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on April 20, 2017, 01:31:42 PM
Something which was later explained more fully after he was taken to task for speaking out about ongoing cases;
While a source close to the national director of the PJ said to the CM that when he spoke of "hastiness", he was misinterpreted.............. the words of the director were in the sense that, if Kate and Gerry had been maintained witnesses, as they would become under the new penal prosecution code (CPP), "perhaps they should not have left so soon for England. And they would be more cooperative with the Justice". http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?p=44166&sid=06c2af4b601d7e7dd5c0e06bb675f347
Xclamation!
The last word in 'clarification' of all things McCann ....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2017, 04:56:30 PM
Something which was later explained more fully after he was taken to task for speaking out about ongoing cases;
While a source close to the national director of the PJ said to the CM that when he spoke of "hastiness", he was misinterpreted.............. the words of the director were in the sense that, if Kate and Gerry had been maintained witnesses, as they would become under the new penal prosecution code (CPP), "perhaps they should not have left so soon for England. And they would be more cooperative with the Justice". http://3as.madeleinemccann.org/viewtopic.php?p=44166&sid=06c2af4b601d7e7dd5c0e06bb675f347
Quite: but it does clarify the situation regarding the changes which occurred to the penal code just days after Kate and Gerry McCann were constituted arguidos in haste.
Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com...386581&page=42 Post #628
"PJ reacted late"
An interview with Carlos Pinto Abreu, one of the McCann couple's lawyers in Portugal
In Portugal, there is the idea that arguido is synonimous with guilty. How can this situation be avoided?
We all have to increase our judiciary culture. And we have to understand that the penal process is a dynamic reality that can be started with an unfounded complaint, a false denunciation, a report about a crime that indicates agressors which are not. And it is necessary to understand that, in the preliminary phase of an investigation, or even of the process, the persons that are made arguidos are not necessarily guilty.
Do you think a precipitated judgement is being made about Kate and Gerry McCann?
No journalist will ever hear me make a comment about the process.
But how do you comment the PGR's [General Attorney] statements that said that "according to the new code, the McCanns would not be arguidos"?
The Attorney General said what he said. Which means he made a judgement over an absence of clues that cast suspicions on certain persons. That statement has its own value. If there are no clues of suspicions about persons, those persons are not made arguidos. Which means that, taking into account the statements that have been made, people may draw the conclusions they want. I don't [draw conclusions].
The English ambassador said he was satisfied with the PJ's action. Does England approve of our investigation methods?
I am not going to comment on political or diplomatic speeches. But I can say the following. I respect all criminal police forces because of what they represent. And the PJ needs serenity, time and ponderation in their investigations. You will not hear me saying whether a criminal police force acted well or not, except within the processes themselves. Because I think it is with time and ponderation that all judiciary operators work. If they work well, we will have a fair process. If they work poorly, we will have an unfair process.
Portugal is not very used to this type of investigation?
Being used to an investigation is not the issue here. The issue is more the media exposure of a certain process. And in this case, media exposure has reached international level. And from there on, there was a reaction I would say... late, when compared with what was demanded in a process of this nature. But I must say that, although late, the reaction from the PJ's highest leaders, and now I'm referring to the national director himself, Alipio Ribeiro, was adequate. Because it put all the fiction in its proper place.
Are you referring to the dismissal of Gonçalo Amaral?
No. I'm referring to statements that were made by the Attorney General and by Alipio Ribero, who clearly stated that all investigation lines are on the table. Which means just that. Which means all investigation lines are open. And that's the way it should be.
Are you referring to news that guaranteed that Madeleine is dead?
Yes. But all scenarios are possible. And as all scenarios are possible, the investigation can't hold onto one and dismiss the other. This is very clear to me, and good news, as much as possible. What one wants is, first, to find the child, and second, to find the child alive.
Do you think the PJ hurt the investigation with the information leaks?
The information leaks are the worst service that can be rendered to an investigation. Because it generates the manipulation of evidence by the public opinion, of the witness reports themselves, and that contamination, wherever it comes from, is a terrible service.
Is the McCann couple hurt by public opinion?
What I can say is that the McCanns' sole concern is to find their daughter. Everything else hurts and causes pain, but it's not important. A página que procura não existe
Seems clear enough ... don't you think? In the early days the information was available and it was discussed on the various fora which appeared on the internet to address what was happening in Madeleine's case.
It is not the stuff of discussion now. Vilification and neglect of the facts evident at the time have largely taken over. Leading one to wonder exactly why the propaganda overtook the truth.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2017, 06:24:12 PM
Quite: but it does clarify the situation regarding the changes which occurred to the penal code just days after Kate and Gerry McCann were constituted arguidos in haste.
Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com...386581&page=42 Post #628
"PJ reacted late"
An interview with Carlos Pinto Abreu, one of the McCann couple's lawyers in Portugal
In Portugal, there is the idea that arguido is synonimous with guilty. How can this situation be avoided?
We all have to increase our judiciary culture. And we have to understand that the penal process is a dynamic reality that can be started with an unfounded complaint, a false denunciation, a report about a crime that indicates agressors which are not. And it is necessary to understand that, in the preliminary phase of an investigation, or even of the process, the persons that are made arguidos are not necessarily guilty.
Do you think a precipitated judgement is being made about Kate and Gerry McCann?
No journalist will ever hear me make a comment about the process.
But how do you comment the PGR's [General Attorney] statements that said that "according to the new code, the McCanns would not be arguidos"?
The Attorney General said what he said. Which means he made a judgement over an absence of clues that cast suspicions on certain persons. That statement has its own value. If there are no clues of suspicions about persons, those persons are not made arguidos. Which means that, taking into account the statements that have been made, people may draw the conclusions they want. I don't [draw conclusions].
The English ambassador said he was satisfied with the PJ's action. Does England approve of our investigation methods?
I am not going to comment on political or diplomatic speeches. But I can say the following. I respect all criminal police forces because of what they represent. And the PJ needs serenity, time and ponderation in their investigations. You will not hear me saying whether a criminal police force acted well or not, except within the processes themselves. Because I think it is with time and ponderation that all judiciary operators work. If they work well, we will have a fair process. If they work poorly, we will have an unfair process.
Portugal is not very used to this type of investigation?
Being used to an investigation is not the issue here. The issue is more the media exposure of a certain process. And in this case, media exposure has reached international level. And from there on, there was a reaction I would say... late, when compared with what was demanded in a process of this nature. But I must say that, although late, the reaction from the PJ's highest leaders, and now I'm referring to the national director himself, Alipio Ribeiro, was adequate. Because it put all the fiction in its proper place.
Are you referring to the dismissal of Gonçalo Amaral?
No. I'm referring to statements that were made by the Attorney General and by Alipio Ribero, who clearly stated that all investigation lines are on the table. Which means just that. Which means all investigation lines are open. And that's the way it should be.
Are you referring to news that guaranteed that Madeleine is dead?
Yes. But all scenarios are possible. And as all scenarios are possible, the investigation can't hold onto one and dismiss the other. This is very clear to me, and good news, as much as possible. What one wants is, first, to find the child, and second, to find the child alive.
Do you think the PJ hurt the investigation with the information leaks?
The information leaks are the worst service that can be rendered to an investigation. Because it generates the manipulation of evidence by the public opinion, of the witness reports themselves, and that contamination, wherever it comes from, is a terrible service.
Is the McCann couple hurt by public opinion?
What I can say is that the McCanns' sole concern is to find their daughter. Everything else hurts and causes pain, but it's not important. A página que procura não existe
Seems clear enough ... don't you think? In the early days the information was available and it was discussed on the various fora which appeared on the internet to address what was happening in Madeleine's case.
It is not the stuff of discussion now. Vilification and neglect of the facts evident at the time have largely taken over. Leading one to wonder exactly why the propaganda overtook the truth.
I'm not sure what your point is.
The McCanns decided they would leave Portugal. As it so happened, they chose a date that preceded a change in Portuguese law.
The McCanns informed Bob Small of this. Bob Small informed the PJ of this.
The PJ decided to re-interview the McCanns prior to their departure. Under Portuguese law relevant to that time, they were obliged to make the McCanns arguidos.
I seem to have lost the point of your post. Would you be so kind as to clarify for me?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2017, 07:01:34 PM
The McCanns decided they would leave Portugal. As it so happened, they chose a date that preceded a change in Portuguese law.
The McCanns informed Bob Small of this. Bob Small informed the PJ of this.
The PJ decided to re-interview the McCanns prior to their departure. Under Portuguese law relevant to that time, they were obliged to make the McCanns arguidos.
I seem to have lost the point of your post. Would you be so kind as to clarify for me?
I think what you have posted here is an opinion piece. You have some of the timetable right but you need to back up the outcomes with cites of the thought processes of the PJ ... as is clear from what I have posted ... there was no obligation on the PJ to constitute Kate and Gerry McCann arguidos.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 20, 2017, 07:10:16 PM
Quite: but it does clarify the situation regarding the changes which occurred to the penal code just days after Kate and Gerry McCann were constituted arguidos in haste.
Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com...386581&page=42 Post #628
"PJ reacted late"
An interview with Carlos Pinto Abreu, one of the McCann couple's lawyers in Portugal
In Portugal, there is the idea that arguido is synonimous with guilty. How can this situation be avoided?
We all have to increase our judiciary culture. And we have to understand that the penal process is a dynamic reality that can be started with an unfounded complaint, a false denunciation, a report about a crime that indicates agressors which are not. And it is necessary to understand that, in the preliminary phase of an investigation, or even of the process, the persons that are made arguidos are not necessarily guilty.
Do you think a precipitated judgement is being made about Kate and Gerry McCann?
No journalist will ever hear me make a comment about the process.
But how do you comment the PGR's [General Attorney] statements that said that "according to the new code, the McCanns would not be arguidos"?
The Attorney General said what he said. Which means he made a judgement over an absence of clues that cast suspicions on certain persons. That statement has its own value. If there are no clues of suspicions about persons, those persons are not made arguidos. Which means that, taking into account the statements that have been made, people may draw the conclusions they want. I don't [draw conclusions].
The English ambassador said he was satisfied with the PJ's action. Does England approve of our investigation methods?
I am not going to comment on political or diplomatic speeches. But I can say the following. I respect all criminal police forces because of what they represent. And the PJ needs serenity, time and ponderation in their investigations. You will not hear me saying whether a criminal police force acted well or not, except within the processes themselves. Because I think it is with time and ponderation that all judiciary operators work. If they work well, we will have a fair process. If they work poorly, we will have an unfair process.
Portugal is not very used to this type of investigation?
Being used to an investigation is not the issue here. The issue is more the media exposure of a certain process. And in this case, media exposure has reached international level. And from there on, there was a reaction I would say... late, when compared with what was demanded in a process of this nature. But I must say that, although late, the reaction from the PJ's highest leaders, and now I'm referring to the national director himself, Alipio Ribeiro, was adequate. Because it put all the fiction in its proper place.
Are you referring to the dismissal of Gonçalo Amaral?
No. I'm referring to statements that were made by the Attorney General and by Alipio Ribero, who clearly stated that all investigation lines are on the table. Which means just that. Which means all investigation lines are open. And that's the way it should be.
Are you referring to news that guaranteed that Madeleine is dead?
Yes. But all scenarios are possible. And as all scenarios are possible, the investigation can't hold onto one and dismiss the other. This is very clear to me, and good news, as much as possible. What one wants is, first, to find the child, and second, to find the child alive.
Do you think the PJ hurt the investigation with the information leaks?
The information leaks are the worst service that can be rendered to an investigation. Because it generates the manipulation of evidence by the public opinion, of the witness reports themselves, and that contamination, wherever it comes from, is a terrible service.
Is the McCann couple hurt by public opinion?
What I can say is that the McCanns' sole concern is to find their daughter. Everything else hurts and causes pain, but it's not important. A página que procura não existe
Seems clear enough ... don't you think? In the early days the information was available and it was discussed on the various fora which appeared on the internet to address what was happening in Madeleine's case.
It is not the stuff of discussion now. Vilification and neglect of the facts evident at the time have largely taken over. Leading one to wonder exactly why the propaganda overtook the truth.
Interesting timeline of events.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2017, 07:14:42 PM
I think what you have posted here is an opinion piece. You have some of the timetable right but you need to back up the outcomes with cites of the thought processes of the PJ ... as is clear from what I have posted ... there was no obligation on the PJ to constitute Kate and Gerry McCann arguidos.
Brietta, as I am sure you are well aware, I am under no obligation whatsoever to post cites re anyone's thought processes. How could anyone ever do that?
The law as it stood required that the McCanns were made arguidos. And I am confident that you are aware of it.
I would thank you for clarifying, but as you have not, I am unable to do so.
For the second time of asking, what was the point you were making?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 22, 2017, 03:03:36 PM
Did Madeleine McCann wander off and have an accident? Was she stolen to order? Or was it a burglary gone wrong? Detective lays out theories about her disappearance.
(http://i.imgur.com/vXOx0hK.jpg?1)
By Katie French PUBLISHED: 22 April 2017
A former Scotland Yard detective believes he has come up with the five most plausible theories to explain the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Murder detective Colin Sutton said a trafficking gang could have snatched her to replace a dead child or she could have been snatched by a paedophile. But he theorised the 'most likely and credible scenario' for Maddie's disappearance was a targeted kidnap.
Speaking to The Mirror, he questioned why traffickers didn't take one of Maddie's twin baby siblings instead – who would have no memory of their previous life and less physical identity. As the 10th anniversary of Maddie's disappearance approaches next month, the investigator has analysed multiple theories for a new book. Madeleine was just three went missing from Praia da Luz in Portugal in May 2007, almost a decade ago. He said those closest to Maddie, including her parents, would have been the first line of inquiry for police. But he added he believed Portuguese police appeared make this their only line of investigation early on in the probe.
He said: 'By concentrating just on that scenario they may have missed tips or other lines that meant going down a completely different investigation route.'
He said: 'A trafficking ring is more likely than a lone paedophile or paedophile ring.'But unless the order was specifically for a young blonde girl, why her and not one of the twins?
'Has a young blonde girl died and their parents want to replace her? Or is there another reason for stealing to order?'
While cops initially believed Maddie could have wandered off and been killed, Sutton believes the tot would surely have taken her beloved toy 'Cuddle Cat' if she had walked out of the apartment.
He said: 'Incidents of children wandering off are much more common than a targeted or non-targeted abduction. 'However Cuddle Cat is a compelling fly in the ointment with this theory.'
He said it was highly unlikely that an opportunist had snatched her, saying that most predatory paedophiles are 'not interested in pre-school age children'.
He said: 'The chances of a predatory paedophile just happening across Madeleine and being able to abduct her without being detected are just so remote.
'I don't know of any other opportunistic abduction of a girl so young.' And he also believes it is extremely unlikely that she was killed as part of a burglary gone wrong, as most burglars are drug addicts looking for something small they can easily sell.
He said: 'Junkies don't take three-year-old girls.'
Did Madeleine McCann wander off and have an accident? Was she stolen to order? Or was it a burglary gone wrong? Detective lays out theories about her disappearance.
(http://i.imgur.com/vXOx0hK.jpg?1)
By Katie French PUBLISHED: 22 April 2017
A former Scotland Yard detective believes he has come up with the five most plausible theories to explain the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Murder detective Colin Sutton said a trafficking gang could have snatched her to replace a dead child or she could have been snatched by a paedophile. But he theorised the 'most likely and credible scenario' for Maddie's disappearance was a targeted kidnap.
Speaking to The Mirror, he questioned why traffickers didn't take one of Maddie's twin baby siblings instead – who would have no memory of their previous life and less physical identity. As the 10th anniversary of Maddie's disappearance approaches next month, the investigator has analysed multiple theories for a new book. Madeleine was just three went missing from Praia da Luz in Portugal in May 2007, almost a decade ago. He said those closest to Maddie, including her parents, would have been the first line of inquiry for police. But he added he believed Portuguese police appeared make this their only line of investigation early on in the probe.
He said: 'By concentrating just on that scenario they may have missed tips or other lines that meant going down a completely different investigation route.'
He said: 'A trafficking ring is more likely than a lone paedophile or paedophile ring.'But unless the order was specifically for a young blonde girl, why her and not one of the twins?
'Has a young blonde girl died and their parents want to replace her? Or is there another reason for stealing to order?'
While cops initially believed Maddie could have wandered off and been killed, Sutton believes the tot would surely have taken her beloved toy 'Cuddle Cat' if she had walked out of the apartment.
He said: 'Incidents of children wandering off are much more common than a targeted or non-targeted abduction. 'However Cuddle Cat is a compelling fly in the ointment with this theory.'
He said it was highly unlikely that an opportunist had snatched her, saying that most predatory paedophiles are 'not interested in pre-school age children'.
He said: 'The chances of a predatory paedophile just happening across Madeleine and being able to abduct her without being detected are just so remote.
'I don't know of any other opportunistic abduction of a girl so young.' And he also believes it is extremely unlikely that she was killed as part of a burglary gone wrong, as most burglars are drug addicts looking for something small they can easily sell.
He said: 'Junkies don't take three-year-old girls.'
I have just been researching Mr Sutton because he appears in tomorrow's Australian special. He appears to be balanced and capable, with a good track record, and 9 years as an SIO with the Met.
I am somewhat surprised that The Mirror has given perhaps its most balanced consideration I have ever seen, but I dare say it had to happen some time.
ETA I spoke too soon. I see it is the Mail using information lifted from the Mirror.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 22, 2017, 03:57:15 PM
I have just been researching Mr Sutton because he appears in tomorrow's Australian special. He appears to be balanced and capable, with a good track record, and 9 years as an SIO with the Met.
I am somewhat surprised that The Mirror has given perhaps its most balanced consideration I have ever seen, but I dare say it had to happen some time.
It's good to see that the wandered off and met with some sort of accident theory is very much alive and well.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 22, 2017, 05:40:42 PM
From the Daily Star.
....and just when you think the tabloid press can't be any more stupid.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 22, 2017, 07:10:02 PM
Mr Sutton makes a pertinent point echoing opinion expressed by other police professionals that the investigation concentrated far too much on one specific line of inquiry for too long. Rather than keeping all options open they allowed themselves to get bogged down investigating the parents possibly missing other opportunities.
Quote He said those closest to Maddie, including her parents, would have been the first line of inquiry for police. But he added he believed Portuguese police appeared make this their only line of investigation early on in the probe.
He said: 'By concentrating just on that scenario they may have missed tips or other lines that meant going down a completely different investigation route.' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4435038/Did-Madeleine-McCann-wander-accident.html#ixzz4ezFjPZug
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 22, 2017, 07:11:24 PM
Mr Sutton makes a pertinent point echoing opinion expressed by other police professionals that the investigation concentrated far too much on one specific line of inquiry for too long. Rather than keeping all options open they allowed themselves to get bogged down investigating the parents possibly missing other opportunities.
Quote He said those closest to Maddie, including her parents, would have been the first line of inquiry for police. But he added he believed Portuguese police appeared make this their only line of investigation early on in the probe.
He said: 'By concentrating just on that scenario they may have missed tips or other lines that meant going down a completely different investigation route.' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4435038/Did-Madeleine-McCann-wander-accident.html#ixzz4ezFjPZug
Indeed, there has been far too much concentration on abduction, despite the lack of evidence to support it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 22, 2017, 07:27:19 PM
Indeed, there has been far too much concentration on abduction, despite the lack of evidence to support it.
There is a lack of evidence available to support any possible scenario of what happened to Madeleine McCann. Yet another police professional has indicated this may very well be that the police overlooked it while being distracted by concentrating solely on a particular theory.
By taking that route they went a long way to prove the adage that the way to solve a crime is to follow the evidence; not by trying to fit the evidence to the crime.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 22, 2017, 07:29:50 PM
Indeed, there has been far too much concentration on abduction, despite the lack of evidence to support it.
what he says is that if the parents are ruled out then abduction is the most likely scenario........which you may remember is what i have been saying for a couple of years
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 22, 2017, 07:32:58 PM
There is a lack of evidence available to support any possible scenario of what happened to Madeleine McCann. Yet another police professional has indicated this may very well be that the police overlooked it while being distracted by concentrating solely on a particular theory.
By taking that route they went a long way to prove the adage that the way to solve a crime is to follow the evidence; not by trying to fit the evidence to the crime.
I'm glad you seem to have realized that.
A lack of evidence on all the scenarios.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 22, 2017, 07:34:58 PM
what he says is that if the parents are ruled out then abduction is the most likely scenario........which you may remember is what i have been saying for a couple of years
You can believe what you like.
There is absolutely nothing to place abduction above any other possibility.
You don't appear to have grasped that yet.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 22, 2017, 07:40:31 PM
what he says is that if the parents are ruled out then abduction is the most likely scenario........which you may remember is what i have been saying for a couple of years
You can believe what you like.
There is absolutely nothing to place abduction above any other possibility.
You don't appear to have grasped that yet.
you need to look at the evidence and you will find there is
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 22, 2017, 07:44:24 PM
There is a lack of evidence available to support any possible scenario of what happened to Madeleine McCann. Yet another police professional has indicated this may very well be that the police overlooked it while being distracted by concentrating solely on a particular theory.
By taking that route they went a long way to prove the adage that the way to solve a crime is to follow the evidence; not by trying to fit the evidence to the crime.
The PJ spent a lot more effort investigating Murat than the McCanns. He was still of interest when Grime and his dogs were brought in, hence the search of his house and various vehicles.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 22, 2017, 07:57:52 PM
The PJ spent a lot more effort investigating Murat than the McCanns. He was still of interest when Grime and his dogs were brought in, hence the search of his house and various vehicles.
makes you think they just wanted someone who wasnt portuguese
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 22, 2017, 08:24:35 PM
The PJ spent a lot more effort investigating Murat than the McCanns. He was still of interest when Grime and his dogs were brought in, hence the search of his house and various vehicles.
Wasn't that more down to Mark Harrison's recommendations?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 22, 2017, 09:32:56 PM
Interesting. So Mark Harrison's recommendations were ignored or not, by The PJ. Whatever suited them, it seems.
He was there at their request and what was investigated was their choice, not his. That situation remains the same within Portugal, which has the lead in this case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 24, 2017, 12:56:47 PM
He was there at their request and what was investigated was their choice, not his. That situation remains the same within Portugal, which has the lead in this case.
So they asked him to do stuff, and then ignored it if it didn't suit them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 24, 2017, 01:26:05 PM
Am I correct in thinking it was in a garage where it was valeted?
I've never heard that. AFAIK there wasn't any explanation as to why the Getz wasn't subjected to the cadaver dogs examination. That vehicle was substituted in the line up by ROB's hire car. The Getz was examined by the Portuguese sniffer dogs - but they were trained to look for living scent not cadaver.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm#p5p1119 *snipped* The GNR dog team commanded by First-Sergeant A.Silva used four dogs to search for a trace of Madeleine Beth McCann in the entire property (inside and outside). The work results were negative. - In the location were three vehicles - VW Transporter; Peugeot 205; Hyundai Getz - all of which were searched. - The entire property was inspected by colleagues from Local Crime Section and Police Science Laboratory, with respective photographic reports made, with special focus on R.Murat's room and the vehicles
Murat had let his mother use the V/W for her information post. That vehicle was cleaned on 13/5/07, the day before the PJ swooped on Casa Liliana, according to MW's statement of 16/5/07
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MICHAELA_WALCZUCH.htm 1358 to 1360 Witness statement of Michaela Walzuch 2007.05.16
*snipped* --- Asked, she states that on the 13 May last she was with Robert washing the VW Transporter at GALP-Lagos because it was dirty.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 24, 2017, 03:03:44 PM
I don't quite follow. Was he employed in a freelance capacity or was he a British police operative?
He was the National Adviser in relation to Search for all Police agencies within the United Kingdom for Missing persons, Abduction and Homicide, so a British police operative. The British police had no jurisdiction in Portugal so Harrison was used only because the PJ agreed he might be useful. What he did was done at the direct request and benefit of Guillhemino Encamacao the Algarve Regional Director of the Portuguese Judicial Police. Encarnacao was one of the two regional directors involved in organising the investigation, the other being Neves. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 24, 2017, 03:21:14 PM
Nanny who looked after Madeleine McCann has broken her silence after 10 years Said she is haunted by the image of Gerry McCann desperately trying to find her Child minder said Madeleine's devastated mother Kate cried, 'They've taken her' By Amie Gordon For Mailonline PUBLISHED: 22:34, 17 April 2017 | UPDATED: 23:12, 17 April 2017
A child minder who looked after Madeleine McCann has broken her silence nearly ten years after the three-year-old went missing. The witness, who was working at the Portuguese resort where Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007, said she is still haunted by the night's events a decade on. She said Gerry McCann desperately tried to find his missing daughter as his wife Kate wailed, 'They've taken her'.
The woman, who has not been named, reportedly looked after Madeleine several times. She told The Mirror the resort Madeleine vanished from was considered so unsafe nannies were given rape whistles and told not to go out alone. The nanny claimed the resort Madeleine vanished from was considered unsafe +6 She also criticised how Portuguese police handled the incident. She said: '[Kate] was pacing up and down. The worst possible thing had just happened to her. 'She was crying, but almost in a catatonic state, and Gerry was very distressed. 'That's the one thing I really remember from him, looking under the cars. I can't forget that.' The woman also claimed police missed out 'whole chunks' of information during their investigation and took some 90 minutes to arrive at the scene. She said there was 'no way' the McCann's had any involvement in their daughter's disappearance. Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine were last month given an £85,000 ‘last throw of the dice’ after identifying a new ‘person of interest’. The hunt had been due to end within weeks but extra cash was found to explore a lead in the investigation, which is nearly a decade old. An insider said police had found a person who was close by when the three-year-old went missing while on holiday in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz in 2007.
The source said: ‘There is just one person who detectives want to speak to, who was near the area where Madeleine disappeared almost ten years ago. An international search has been under way to find them.’ The Portuguese press reported that ‘police are understood to have clues pointing to the existence of a new suspect’, but it was not said whether it was a man or a woman.
A report in newspaper Correio da Manha read: ‘This new suspect is believed to be Portuguese and was apparently seen near the Ocean Club, where Kate and Gerry McCann were staying with their children when Madeleine disappeared. ‘British police are understood to be preparing to question this new suspect.’ Kate and Gerry McCann were said to be ‘very grateful’ for the continued funding amid fears the £11.1million investigation into Maddie’s disappearance, which is codenamed Operation Grange, was about to be shelved.
Senior Yard officers see the development as the ‘last throw of the dice’. A family spokesman said: ‘Kate and Gerry remain incredibly grateful to the Home Office and the Met Police for the continued work into the search for their daughter.’ A close friend of former GP Kate, 49, and heart doctor Gerry, 48, said: ‘They have never given up hope of finding out what happened to Madeleine, and believe she could be alive. ‘They appreciate the Met Police’s help and know they are doing everything possible for a resolution.’
see also http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-really-happened-night-madeleine-10245222
I wonder which police arrived after 90 minutes? 90 minutes after what?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 24, 2017, 03:48:01 PM
I've never heard that. AFAIK there wasn't any explanation as to why the Getz wasn't subjected to the cadaver dogs examination. That vehicle was substituted in the line up by ROB's hire car. The Getz was examined by the Portuguese sniffer dogs - but they were trained to look for living scent not cadaver.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ROBERT-MURAT.htm#p5p1119 *snipped* The GNR dog team commanded by First-Sergeant A.Silva used four dogs to search for a trace of Madeleine Beth McCann in the entire property (inside and outside). The work results were negative. - In the location were three vehicles - VW Transporter; Peugeot 205; Hyundai Getz - all of which were searched. - The entire property was inspected by colleagues from Local Crime Section and Police Science Laboratory, with respective photographic reports made, with special focus on R.Murat's room and the vehicles
Murat had let his mother use the V/W for her information post. That vehicle was cleaned on 13/5/07, the day before the PJ swooped on Casa Liliana, according to MW's statement of 16/5/07
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MICHAELA_WALCZUCH.htm 1358 to 1360 Witness statement of Michaela Walzuch 2007.05.16
*snipped* --- Asked, she states that on the 13 May last she was with Robert washing the VW Transporter at GALP-Lagos because it was dirty.
Thanks, Misty. I think that must be where I was getting the car washing episode from.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 24, 2017, 03:52:48 PM
May I ask you if you subject sources like this to some sanity-checking?
Not a single nanny mentioned rape whistles in their statements or being advised not to travel alone. If these facets are true, the nannies failed Madeleine totally and utterly by not drawing this to the attention of the police.
Then there is OC management, who, believing Luz to be dangerous in this respect, failed to warn guests and failed to report such facets to the PJ, thus failing Madeleine totally and utterly.
This would take us into massive conspiracy territory, so I prefer to view this unnamed source with extreme caution.
It is relatively easy to attribute salacious stories to unnamed sources. I have no expectation of all the nannies coming forward to claim this is true or untrue. But the paper should have been able to cross-check such 'facts' with other nannies, and appears not to have done so.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 24, 2017, 06:03:28 PM
May I ask you if you subject sources like this to some sanity-checking?
Not a single nanny mentioned rape whistles in their statements or being advised not to travel alone. If these facets are true, the nannies failed Madeleine totally and utterly by not drawing this to the attention of the police.
Then there is OC management, who, believing Luz to be dangerous in this respect, failed to warn guests and failed to report such facets to the PJ, thus failing Madeleine totally and utterly.
This would take us into massive conspiracy territory, so I prefer to view this unnamed source with extreme caution.
It is relatively easy to attribute salacious stories to unnamed sources. I have no expectation of all the nannies coming forward to claim this is true or untrue. But the paper should have been able to cross-check such 'facts' with other nannies, and appears not to have done so.
There has been no mention of this before.
Rather strange that this story appeared just prior to May the 3 rd.
I wonder what will emerge next. &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on April 24, 2017, 06:15:21 PM
I can only speak from memory, but I am pretty certain that Robert Murat's hire car wasn't included in the search.
Not that I think he was driving around with a dead body in the back.
And a non search would hardly have been included in The Files.
Your memory does not fail you.
No fault of Murat's but a car he hired and originally intended to be included in a (nominal) 'line-up' of 10 vehicles (plus one that was the only one of the slightest interest to humans, the Renault Scenic with the Find Madeleine stickers in the back) became a nominal 'line-up' of 9 (plus one, the only one of real interest to humans, the Renault Scenic with the Find Madeleine stickers in the back).
The reason?
The PJ crashed Robert Murat's hire-car driving it to the garage where the inspection took place.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 24, 2017, 06:19:00 PM
No fault of Murat's but a car he hired and originally intended to be included in a (nominal) 'line-up' of 10 vehicles (plus one that was the only one of the slightest interest to humans, the Renault Scenic with the Find Madeleine stickers in the back) became a nominal 'line-up' of 9 (plus one, the only one of real interest to humans, the Renault Scenic with the Find Madeleine stickers in the back).
The reason?
The PJ crashed Robert Murat's hire-car driving it to the garage where the inspection took place.
Good Heavens.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 24, 2017, 07:03:58 PM
I interpreted this as the time the GNR turned up at apartment 5A, though why a nanny would know this is puzzling.
Well it wasn't 90 minutes after the alarm was raised, that would have been 11.30 pm. It wasn't 90 minutes after Matthew's visit to reception at 10.10 pm and it wasn't 90 minutes after the first phone call. The PJ arrived at 12.40-50 am, so that doesn't fit with anything.
90 minutes before the GNR arrived is 9.30 pm.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 24, 2017, 07:32:11 PM
Well it wasn't 90 minutes after the alarm was raised, that would have been 11.30 pm. It wasn't 90 minutes after Matthew's visit to reception at 10.10 pm and it wasn't 90 minutes after the first phone call. The PJ arrived at 12.40-50 am, so that doesn't fit with anything.
90 minutes before the GNR arrived is 9.30 pm.
Only if the GNR arrived at 5A at 11pm, and I'm 99% confident, based on Gerry's 2 calls to Kate, that it was actually around 11.25-ish, or nearly 90 minutes after Kate raised the alarm.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 24, 2017, 08:52:15 PM
Only if the GNR arrived at 5A at 11pm, and I'm 99% confident, based on Gerry's 2 calls to Kate, that it was actually around 11.25-ish, or nearly 90 minutes after Kate raised the alarm.
The GNR came from Odiaxere, 14 minutes drive away. They arrived at Reception while Gerry was still in 5A. He then had to go to meet them and then speak to them through Silvia. After that they were taken to 5A in the police car. He called his wife four times between 23.14 and 23.17. That suggests the GNR arrived at least 5 minutes before 23.14, just not at 5A.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 24, 2017, 09:09:49 PM
The GNR came from Odiaxere, 14 minutes drive away. They arrived at Reception while Gerry was still in 5A. He then had to go to meet them and then speak to them through Silvia. After that they were taken to 5A in the police car. He called his wife four times between 23.14 and 23.17. That suggests the GNR arrived at least 5 minutes before 23.14, just not at 5A.
He called his wife twice. These calls were double-recorded.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 24, 2017, 09:11:58 PM
No fault of Murat's but a car he hired and originally intended to be included in a (nominal) 'line-up' of 10 vehicles (plus one that was the only one of the slightest interest to humans, the Renault Scenic with the Find Madeleine stickers in the back) became a nominal 'line-up' of 9 (plus one, the only one of real interest to humans, the Renault Scenic with the Find Madeleine stickers in the back).
The reason?
The PJ crashed Robert Murat's hire-car driving it to the garage where the inspection took place.
It wasn't the hire car which they crashed, it was RM's VW Passat.
Policia Judiciaria inspectors drove the family's Renault Scenic and Mr Murat's van to the police laboratory in Portimao themselves, instead of sealing them off and transporting them on low-loaders. They could have destroyed a wealth of potential evidence and contaminated minute DNA traces, experts said yesterday. They even crashed Mr Murat's green Volkswagen Passat on the way. His lawyer said: "The van was scratched all down one side. The damage is not great but nobody has yet paid for the repairs. "We don't know how the accident happened."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 24, 2017, 09:39:19 PM
He called his wife twice. These calls were double-recorded.
Assuming the first call was at 23.14 that was probably to tell her he was on his way with the GNR, so they clearly arrived at Reception before then because they arrived before he left 5A.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 24, 2017, 09:55:22 PM
Assuming the first call was at 23.14 that was probably to tell her he was on his way with the GNR, so they clearly arrived at Reception before then because they arrived before he left 5A.
Situation 1. Gerry called at 11.14 to say the GNR had arrived. Gerry called at 11.17 to say they were on their way to 5A
Situation 2, Gerry called at 11.14 to say he was in OC reception and the GNR had not arrived. Gerry called at 11.17 to say the GNR had just arrived.
Take your pick. Neither gets you to GNR at 5A at much before 80 minutes after Kate raised the alarm.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 24, 2017, 10:05:06 PM
Situation 1. Gerry called at 11.14 to say the GNR had arrived. Gerry called at 11.17 to say they were on their way to 5A
Situation 2, Gerry called at 11.14 to say he was in OC reception and the GNR had not arrived. Gerry called at 11.17 to say the GNR had just arrived.
Take your pick. Neither gets you to GNR at 5A at much before 80 minutes after Kate raised the alarm.
There is testimony saying that the GNR arrived at Reception before Gerry left 5A (Silvia). So he was unlikely to be calling Kate at 11.14 to say they had not arrived.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 27, 2017, 02:06:15 AM
There seem to be a plethora of ridiculous stories in the media, as the 10 th year of Madeleine's disappearance nears.
They are shameless money making exercises.
Just read the Sun, in it'so latest.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 27, 2017, 06:06:15 PM
Ten years after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, Gonçalo Amaral returns to Praia da Luz to remember everything that happened. A unique report and interview from SÁBADO and CMTV.
He had dinner with a friend after a day's work, when around midnight on May 3, 2007 he received the call that set the course for the following years: an English girl, the daughter of a couple of doctors, had disappeared from the iillage of Praia da Luz. The then chief inspector gave instructions over the phone, then moved to the picket and headed home. At that moment he could not imagine it, but he had just come across the investigation that would end his career, calling him the internet name of "drunk", "womanizing" and "despicable" cop and involving him in a judicial proceeding in which he was asked to pay damages of € 1,200,000. The missing girl was Madeleine McCann.
Ten years later, the former coordinator of the Judiciary Police returns to Praia da Luz to relive everything that happened in those days. Gonçalo Amaral also criticizes the persistence of the public prosecution and the government over the British authorities and leaves a clue as to what he believes may have happened to Maddie McCann in an exclusive report, the result of a partnership between SÁBADO and CMTV.
Read the full story in the printed edition of SÁBADO, this Thursday in the stands.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 27, 2017, 07:12:46 PM
Read more here for the evidence of paranoia and conspiracy freakery:
Madeleine McCann detective claims investigation was 'tainted' as soon as it was an 'abduction' Goncalo Amaral says Portuguese prosecutors felt ‘intimidated by the United Kingdom’ and claims Kate and Gerry McCann were given special treatment by British authorities.
The former Portuguese detective who led the probe into Madeleine McCann’s disappearance a decade ago claims the investigation was tainted as soon as it was deemed an ‘abduction’.
Goncalo Amaral says Portuguese prosecutors felt ‘intimidated by the United Kingdom’ and claims Kate and Gerry McCann were given special treatment by British authorities because they were doctors.
The ex-policeman refuted claims his officers’ probe was shoddy and says interference from the UK hindered the process.
He maintains devastated parents Kate and Gerry were involved in three-year-old Maddie’s disappearance on May 3 2007 in Praia da luz.
The former officer also pointed the finger at the British class system in an interview which will be aired on Portuguese news channel CMTV on Monday.
He told Portuguese magazine Sábado: “They belong to the upper-middle class and the British do not like their doctors to mess up abroad and get convicted for it.”
Retired Amaral, who was removed as head of the probe after criticising British detectives, claimed UK authorities tried to rush the process.
He said: “It is not normal for an ambassador from a foreign country to come to the place to push in the sense that ‘this has to be quick’.
“If the ambassador and even the consul had not appeared, the investigation would have been directed to what is normal - to suspect those who have responsibility for the custody of the child.
“(The) Judiciary, Public Prosecutor’s Office and the government felt intimidated by the United Kingdom.
“The mistake was the statement about the abduction. It was almost a lack of respect to make the decision (that it was an abduction) and to make it public.”
Portuguese detectives said on May 5 2007 - just two days after her disappearance - that they believed she was still alive in the country after being abducted.
Then director of the Policia Judiciaria Guilhermino Encarnacao made the announcement, stating officers were working on the assumption Maddie was being held between 1.8 and 3.1 miles from the resort.
One eyewitness told the Mirror Portuguese police arrived on the scene at the Ocean Club complex some 90 minutes after Madeleine vanished.
Our source also accused police of messing up key witness statements taken in the days after the tragedy.
But Amaral denies Portuguese police made a string of errors, instead accusing British police of trying to ‘protect’ the McCanns.
Amaral said: “When the couple left, the British police who were here to cooperate and help also left. The feeling was that the British police were here to protect the couple.”
Amaral accused Portuguese police of now ‘doing the politically correct’ thing by following Scotland Yard’s lines of enquiry, to ensure they do not compromise relations between the UK and Portugal.
He said: “The management of the Policia Judiciária and the prosecutor himself are doing the politically correct.
“In the United Kingdom and here the direction of the police walked with Scotland Yard. Do not investigate anything that might compromise your parents or friends. It is a mistake.”
By Clarence Mitchell 28 APRIL 2017 • 9:30PM A former BBC reporter, Clarence Mitchell was appointed to assist Kate and Gerry McCann as their media spokesman following the disappearance of their daughter, Madeleine, in Portugal in 2007. Mitchell now works for a public relations company and continues to assist the McCanns when necessary. Here is his incredible account of the youngster's disappearance, the police operation to find her and the subsequent 10 years of anguish....
Twice in the ten years I have worked with the McCanns, I genuinely thought we were within reach of finding their missing daughter, Madeleine.
The first moment came very early on, just weeks after her disappearance on May 3, 2007. I had been sent by the British government to the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz to assist Kate and Gerry in dealing with the already huge media interest. Shortly after I arrived, I started to get phone calls, always at three o’clock in the morning, always the same ghostly man’s voice, repeatedly naming a farm where she was being hidden.
The British police recorded the calls and it turned out there was indeed a farm, fitting his description exactly, near Seville, over the border in Spain. As it was raided, and turned out to look exactly as he had painted it in those calls, I really felt we were on to something. But she wasn’t there, and those tip-offs – like so many others that we received from hoaxers, ransom seekers, conmen and psychics – were never explained.
The second came at the end of 2007. I was now being employed by Kate and Gerry as their press spokesman, and they were back at home in Leicestershire with their twins, Sean and Amelie. Spanish private investigators working on their behalf had found a blonde-haired girl who spoke English in a village in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco. All the information coming back to us suggested heavily that it could be Madeleine, so much so that an aircraft was put on stand-by, with its engines running, waiting to fly to pick her up.
Kate and Gerry sat tight. They had learned by that stage to be sceptical, not to give in to natural hope only for it to be dashed. They preferred to wait until the Moroccan authorities had checked it out. And when they did, it became clear she was not Madeleine.
On the tenth anniversary of her disappearance, I continue to assist Kate and Gerry as required, keeping a weather eye on reports and sightings, such as the “significant lead” that Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said this week that Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange is following up.
Beyond that, rightly, the Metropolitan Police do not go into operational detail publicly. So, wherever this latest lead may take them, be it Portugal or elsewhere, this time around, like Kate and Gerry, I will sit tight and simply let the authorities do their job before getting my hopes up.
I had spent 20 years as a BBC journalist before becoming a civil servant and helping the McCanns. I met Gerry first. It was some two weeks after Madeleine had gone missing, and he had flown back to England to collect some of her belongings and see members of their large, close extended family.
Obviously, he was distressed, but also very rational. As I have subsequently learnt by spending time with the couple at close quarters, Gerry deals with trauma by compartmentalising it and being in control. His emotions, then as now, are poured into what he can do practically to raise awareness of Madeleine’s disappearance.
In Portugal, I found Kate very friendly, grateful for the support I could offer, but already wary of the media attention. Even though she realised that it was invaluable in keeping awareness high, she – more so that Gerry – found it very intrusive.
That was before it turned into something altogether more cruel, with the McCanns becoming widely vilified for making a mistake in the way in which they chose to care for their children on that fateful night in Praia da Luz. They had left them in an unlocked holiday apartment, though still checking on them regularly, because there was no baby-listening service at their complex.
They were always the first to admit their mistake, but what a price they are still paying. God forbid it is a price they may have to pay for the rest of their lives. I was with them, in private, away from the cameras on many occasions, when they were in absolute grief and misery.
For all the doubters, they have never done or said anything at any time that has given me any cause for suspicion that they were anything other than the innocent victims of a dreadful crime. Before that first meeting with Gerry, I was briefed by British police working alongside the Portuguese on the case. They told me then, categorically, that they had “cleared the ground beneath their feet”
In other words, the British authorities believed that Gerry and Kate were categorically not guilty of any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance.
Yet the Portuguese police turned against them, naming them as arguido, a technical term conferring certain legal rights that is clumsily and misleadingly translated into English as “suspect”. You can become an arguido over the most minor traffic offence. By that time, though, I had been called back by the government to London, but Kate and Gerry were ringing me at four in the morning saying: “We’ve been out here in Portugal too long, we’ve been stitched up, we’re about to be arrested, it’s all dreadful.”
Other than being sympathetic, I couldn’t do anything to help them. So when the offer came to work for them full-time, I took it in an instant.
What stands out, looking back over ten years, is the sheer lunacy of the accusations made against them.
There was, for instance, the theory entertained by the Portuguese police that their daughter had somehow been killed accidentally and that they then had used their hire car to remove her body and bury it in a secret location. I was there when the keys to that car were handed over to them, at their apartment; they hired it several weeks after Madeleine had disappeared.
Even if they had already got their daughter’s body out of the holiday apartment and stored it somewhere (a fridge was suggested, ridiculously), the police theory would mean that, in the full view of the world’s media, who were camped on their doorstep around the clock, the McCanns would have had to put her into the boot and then shaken off the ever-present paparazzi to dispose of her. It was as implausible as it was utterly offensive.
Later, in the autumn of 2007, when we were all back in England, a team of Portuguese police officers came to interview me about the times I had ridden in that car with Kate and Gerry. Did I notice any unusual smells in the hire car, they asked? It was beyond laughable. It also revealed, I felt, frightening ineptitude.
By then, a whole, vile cottage industry had grown around the case, with retired police officers who had nothing to do with the investigation appearing on Portuguese TV to suggest, for example, the McCanns had been at a swingers’ party on the night of Madeleine’s disappearance. It all compounded their pain.
Kate, in particular, got deeply angry. There was no shouting, sobbing or throwing things. It was more of a simmering but intense rage that things could be so misrepresented and so blatantly unfair.
Their real fury, though, was that such lazy reporting of wild untruths would actually mislead people and so hinder the search for Madeleine. That was why they took legal action against Gonçalo Amaral, the Portuguese police officer who wrote a very unpleasant book about them after being removed from the investigation. If people in Portugal, or elsewhere, believe the claims of an officer who never interviewed them, then Kate and Gerry feared that the public would simply assume Madeleine was dead and forget her.
The pressure would have broken other couples. Occasionally, I would catch them in tears, or hugging each other. But they seem to have coped. If anything, it has brought them together even more, rather than split them apart.
The McCanns are private people. I have never been privy to their innermost thoughts. It is not that sort of relationship. We haven’t even discussed politics. I am hoping to stand as a Conservative candidate in the forthcoming election, and my flag is blue; theirs, I’ve always believed, is red. It certainly didn’t affect our friendship.
They have thrown themselves into looking after the twins, trying as best to create a home where reminders of Madeleine are all around them, where she is still very much part of the family, and where they can shield Sean and Amelie against this constant gaze that the family is still under.
We have a good understanding with the British media that, until they are 18, the twins should never be photographed, but we can’t always enforce it. A local paper here or a foreign agency photographer there has occasionally managed to include them “by accident” in a photograph at a school sports day or other public event.
Despite the support they have received, there are still bills to pay. Before Madeleine’s disappearance, Kate was a locum GP, but she has never returned to work. Gerry continues as a senior cardiologist. (It is a tiny point, but symbolic of how almost every fact is twisted in this story. Gerry is not a surgeon, as often inaccurately reported. He is the man who keeps you alive and your essential tubes open when you are having your heart operation under the surgeon’s knife.)
Kate and Gerry hate being recognised. When I was with them, we would sometimes walk into a restaurant and the whole place would go quiet as they entered. People are mostly sympathetic. Many just don’t know what to say to them. Nobody in my experience has ever been bold enough to accuse them of anything unpleasant to their faces. All of the worst, ugly nonsense is online – that Gerry is not Madeleine’s real dad, that paedophilia is somehow involved, that there’s a huge global government conspiracy to cover something up.
One of the most ridiculous and offensive theories I have come across online – and there are many – is that Madeleine had somehow been hidden at the church in Praia da Luz inside a coffin, beneath a body awaiting burial.
I continue to believe Madeleine was abducted for some reason. Kate is sure that, just short of her fourth birthday, Madeleine would not have been capable of wandering out of the apartment, closing the curtains, sliding doors and two small gates behind her.
And so the couple keep her bedroom in Leicestershire ready for her return, with the presents there for all the birthdays and Christmases with them that she has missed. It is very much a family-only place. In all my time in their house, that door has remained shut.
They hope and pray that, wherever she is, Madeleine is being looked after. What sustains them is that there is absolutely no evidence of physical harm coming to her. So they will always believe firmly that it is as logical to think she might be alive as it is illogical to assume the worst.
How curious that the little girl identified as Bushra reportedly spoke English.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 29, 2017, 12:02:24 AM
Oh Dear God, does it have to be this dreadful. Did some very silly little man have nothing better to do than to prematurely decide that women kill their daughters.
It was aways Leonor who killed Joanna. And it was always Kate who killed Madeleline.
This ghastly man who never managed to prove anything about anything, other than God knows what.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 29, 2017, 05:50:18 AM
By Clarence Mitchell 28 APRIL 2017 • 9:30PM A former BBC reporter, Clarence Mitchell was appointed to assist Kate and Gerry McCann as their media spokesman following the disappearance of their daughter, Madeleine, in Portugal in 2007. Mitchell now works for a public relations company and continues to assist the McCanns when necessary. Here is his incredible account of the youngster's disappearance, the police operation to find her and the subsequent 10 years of anguish....
Twice in the ten years I have worked with the McCanns, I genuinely thought we were within reach of finding their missing daughter, Madeleine.
The first moment came very early on, just weeks after her disappearance on May 3, 2007. I had been sent by the British government to the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz to assist Kate and Gerry in dealing with the already huge media interest. Shortly after I arrived, I started to get phone calls, always at three o’clock in the morning, always the same ghostly man’s voice, repeatedly naming a farm where she was being hidden.
The British police recorded the calls and it turned out there was indeed a farm, fitting his description exactly, near Seville, over the border in Spain. As it was raided, and turned out to look exactly as he had painted it in those calls, I really felt we were on to something. But she wasn’t there, and those tip-offs – like so many others that we received from hoaxers, ransom seekers, conmen and psychics – were never explained.
The second came at the end of 2007. I was now being employed by Kate and Gerry as their press spokesman, and they were back at home in Leicestershire with their twins, Sean and Amelie. Spanish private investigators working on their behalf had found a blonde-haired girl who spoke English in a village in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco. All the information coming back to us suggested heavily that it could be Madeleine, so much so that an aircraft was put on stand-by, with its engines running, waiting to fly to pick her up.
Kate and Gerry sat tight. They had learned by that stage to be sceptical, not to give in to natural hope only for it to be dashed. They preferred to wait until the Moroccan authorities had checked it out. And when they did, it became clear she was not Madeleine.
On the tenth anniversary of her disappearance, I continue to assist Kate and Gerry as required, keeping a weather eye on reports and sightings, such as the “significant lead” that Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said this week that Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange is following up.
Beyond that, rightly, the Metropolitan Police do not go into operational detail publicly. So, wherever this latest lead may take them, be it Portugal or elsewhere, this time around, like Kate and Gerry, I will sit tight and simply let the authorities do their job before getting my hopes up.
I had spent 20 years as a BBC journalist before becoming a civil servant and helping the McCanns. I met Gerry first. It was some two weeks after Madeleine had gone missing, and he had flown back to England to collect some of her belongings and see members of their large, close extended family.
Obviously, he was distressed, but also very rational. As I have subsequently learnt by spending time with the couple at close quarters, Gerry deals with trauma by compartmentalising it and being in control. His emotions, then as now, are poured into what he can do practically to raise awareness of Madeleine’s disappearance.
In Portugal, I found Kate very friendly, grateful for the support I could offer, but already wary of the media attention. Even though she realised that it was invaluable in keeping awareness high, she – more so that Gerry – found it very intrusive.
That was before it turned into something altogether more cruel, with the McCanns becoming widely vilified for making a mistake in the way in which they chose to care for their children on that fateful night in Praia da Luz. They had left them in an unlocked holiday apartment, though still checking on them regularly, because there was no baby-listening service at their complex.
They were always the first to admit their mistake, but what a price they are still paying. God forbid it is a price they may have to pay for the rest of their lives. I was with them, in private, away from the cameras on many occasions, when they were in absolute grief and misery.
For all the doubters, they have never done or said anything at any time that has given me any cause for suspicion that they were anything other than the innocent victims of a dreadful crime. Before that first meeting with Gerry, I was briefed by British police working alongside the Portuguese on the case. They told me then, categorically, that they had “cleared the ground beneath their feet”
In other words, the British authorities believed that Gerry and Kate were categorically not guilty of any involvement in Madeleine’s disappearance.
Yet the Portuguese police turned against them, naming them as arguido, a technical term conferring certain legal rights that is clumsily and misleadingly translated into English as “suspect”. You can become an arguido over the most minor traffic offence. By that time, though, I had been called back by the government to London, but Kate and Gerry were ringing me at four in the morning saying: “We’ve been out here in Portugal too long, we’ve been stitched up, we’re about to be arrested, it’s all dreadful.”
Other than being sympathetic, I couldn’t do anything to help them. So when the offer came to work for them full-time, I took it in an instant.
What stands out, looking back over ten years, is the sheer lunacy of the accusations made against them.
There was, for instance, the theory entertained by the Portuguese police that their daughter had somehow been killed accidentally and that they then had used their hire car to remove her body and bury it in a secret location. I was there when the keys to that car were handed over to them, at their apartment; they hired it several weeks after Madeleine had disappeared.
Even if they had already got their daughter’s body out of the holiday apartment and stored it somewhere (a fridge was suggested, ridiculously), the police theory would mean that, in the full view of the world’s media, who were camped on their doorstep around the clock, the McCanns would have had to put her into the boot and then shaken off the ever-present paparazzi to dispose of her. It was as implausible as it was utterly offensive.
Later, in the autumn of 2007, when we were all back in England, a team of Portuguese police officers came to interview me about the times I had ridden in that car with Kate and Gerry. Did I notice any unusual smells in the hire car, they asked? It was beyond laughable. It also revealed, I felt, frightening ineptitude.
By then, a whole, vile cottage industry had grown around the case, with retired police officers who had nothing to do with the investigation appearing on Portuguese TV to suggest, for example, the McCanns had been at a swingers’ party on the night of Madeleine’s disappearance. It all compounded their pain.
Kate, in particular, got deeply angry. There was no shouting, sobbing or throwing things. It was more of a simmering but intense rage that things could be so misrepresented and so blatantly unfair.
Their real fury, though, was that such lazy reporting of wild untruths would actually mislead people and so hinder the search for Madeleine. That was why they took legal action against Gonçalo Amaral, the Portuguese police officer who wrote a very unpleasant book about them after being removed from the investigation. If people in Portugal, or elsewhere, believe the claims of an officer who never interviewed them, then Kate and Gerry feared that the public would simply assume Madeleine was dead and forget her.
The pressure would have broken other couples. Occasionally, I would catch them in tears, or hugging each other. But they seem to have coped. If anything, it has brought them together even more, rather than split them apart.
The McCanns are private people. I have never been privy to their innermost thoughts. It is not that sort of relationship. We haven’t even discussed politics. I am hoping to stand as a Conservative candidate in the forthcoming election, and my flag is blue; theirs, I’ve always believed, is red. It certainly didn’t affect our friendship.
They have thrown themselves into looking after the twins, trying as best to create a home where reminders of Madeleine are all around them, where she is still very much part of the family, and where they can shield Sean and Amelie against this constant gaze that the family is still under.
We have a good understanding with the British media that, until they are 18, the twins should never be photographed, but we can’t always enforce it. A local paper here or a foreign agency photographer there has occasionally managed to include them “by accident” in a photograph at a school sports day or other public event.
Despite the support they have received, there are still bills to pay. Before Madeleine’s disappearance, Kate was a locum GP, but she has never returned to work. Gerry continues as a senior cardiologist. (It is a tiny point, but symbolic of how almost every fact is twisted in this story. Gerry is not a surgeon, as often inaccurately reported. He is the man who keeps you alive and your essential tubes open when you are having your heart operation under the surgeon’s knife.)
Kate and Gerry hate being recognised. When I was with them, we would sometimes walk into a restaurant and the whole place would go quiet as they entered. People are mostly sympathetic. Many just don’t know what to say to them. Nobody in my experience has ever been bold enough to accuse them of anything unpleasant to their faces. All of the worst, ugly nonsense is online – that Gerry is not Madeleine’s real dad, that paedophilia is somehow involved, that there’s a huge global government conspiracy to cover something up.
One of the most ridiculous and offensive theories I have come across online – and there are many – is that Madeleine had somehow been hidden at the church in Praia da Luz inside a coffin, beneath a body awaiting burial.
I continue to believe Madeleine was abducted for some reason. Kate is sure that, just short of her fourth birthday, Madeleine would not have been capable of wandering out of the apartment, closing the curtains, sliding doors and two small gates behind her.
And so the couple keep her bedroom in Leicestershire ready for her return, with the presents there for all the birthdays and Christmases with them that she has missed. It is very much a family-only place. In all my time in their house, that door has remained shut.
They hope and pray that, wherever she is, Madeleine is being looked after. What sustains them is that there is absolutely no evidence of physical harm coming to her. So they will always believe firmly that it is as logical to think she might be alive as it is illogical to assume the worst.
His history in trying to control the 'truth' released through the media is well known.
A former worker for Blair.
At least you don't mince your words with total disregard to the mental image you send out to observers.
The effect on a parent of a missing child being convinced that she had been found must be unimaginabe.
" ... I started to get phone calls, always at three o’clock in the morning, always the same ghostly man’s voice, repeatedly naming a farm where she was being hidden.
The British police recorded the calls and it turned out there was indeed a farm, fitting his description exactly, near Seville, over the border in Spain. As it was raided, and turned out to look exactly as he had painted it in those calls, I really felt we were on to something. But she wasn’t there, and those tip-offs – like so many others that we received from hoaxers, ransom seekers, conmen and psychics – were never explained." Clarence Mitchell
Clarence Mitchell was working on behalf of the British people government to recover a missing British child.
Unlike the plethora of innuendo and downright lies emanating from the Amaral led death cult anything he says can be substantiated particularly when documented as in this instance by the British police.
Interesting that it was not the Policia Judiciaria who recorded these calls so particularly, even in the early days there was a lot of co-operation going on. Unfortunately even in the early days, Amaral's theory had already taken over.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 29, 2017, 08:19:48 AM
At least you don't mince your words with total disregard to the mental image you send out to observers.
The effect on a parent of a missing child being convinced that she had been found must be unimaginabe.
" ... I started to get phone calls, always at three o’clock in the morning, always the same ghostly man’s voice, repeatedly naming a farm where she was being hidden.
The British police recorded the calls and it turned out there was indeed a farm, fitting his description exactly, near Seville, over the border in Spain. As it was raided, and turned out to look exactly as he had painted it in those calls, I really felt we were on to something. But she wasn’t there, and those tip-offs – like so many others that we received from hoaxers, ransom seekers, conmen and psychics – were never explained." Clarence Mitchell
Clarence Mitchell was working on behalf of the British people to recover a missing British child.
Unlike the plethora of innuendo and downright lies emanating from the Amaral led death cult anything he says can be substantiated particularly when documented as in this instance by the British police.
Interesting that it was not the Policia Judiciaria who recorded these calls.
I have total contempt for Mitchell, and I am far being the only person who views him that way.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 29, 2017, 08:27:57 AM
I have total contempt for Mitchell, and I am far being the only person who views him that way.
There is a coterie which shows contempt for anyone and anything with a positive outlook on Madeleine McCann ... even ridiculing on occasion those who express the hope she may be alive.
Don't you think that ten years into such self destructive venom ... ENOUGH!!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 29, 2017, 08:29:27 AM
Clarence comes across as thoroughly honest and decent in that piece, which is sure to generate a huge wealth of scorn and vitriol today, oh Faithlilly, where are yooooou?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 29, 2017, 08:41:28 AM
There is a coterie which shows contempt for anyone and anything with a positive outlook on Madeleine McCann ... even ridiculing on occasion those who express the hope she may be alive.
Don't you think that ten years into such self destructive venom ... ENOUGH!!
Aren't you aware of Mitchell's history by know ?
Again Brietta, I don't recall you answering this question yet. With no abduction, where would it leave the McCann's ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 29, 2017, 09:02:23 AM
Clarence comes across as thoroughly honest and decent in that piece, which is sure to generate a huge wealth of scorn and vitriol today, oh Faithlilly, where are yooooou?
He wanted to become an MP I'm not sure honest and decent are compatible with that,maybe that's why he failed in his selection bid.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 29, 2017, 09:13:55 AM
He wanted to become an MP I'm not sure honest and decent are compatible with that,maybe that's why he failed in his selection bid.
Amaral also had political ambitions which he blamed the McCanns for thwarting ... it never occurring to him that his criminal conviction in 2008 might actually have played a major part.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 29, 2017, 09:55:57 AM
Madeleine was abducted as AC Rowley has very recently attested and the McCann family are the victims of that abduction.
Unfortunately AC Rowley offered no evidence to support his belief that Madeleine was abducted except that 'she was not old enough to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted.' Really? Has every missing child too young to walk out and start their own lives been abducted? I think not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 29, 2017, 10:09:48 AM
Unfortunately AC Rowley offered no evidence to support his belief that Madeleine was abducted except that 'she was not old enough to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted.' Really? Has every missing child too young to walk out and start their own lives been abducted? I think not.
He is privy to the evidence available on a live case. I prefer to listen to what he can say ... not to what he cannot.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 29, 2017, 10:11:58 AM
At least you don't mince your words with total disregard to the mental image you send out to observers.
The effect on a parent of a missing child being convinced that she had been found must be unimaginabe.
" ... I started to get phone calls, always at three o’clock in the morning, always the same ghostly man’s voice, repeatedly naming a farm where she was being hidden.
The British police recorded the calls and it turned out there was indeed a farm, fitting his description exactly, near Seville, over the border in Spain. As it was raided, and turned out to look exactly as he had painted it in those calls, I really felt we were on to something. But she wasn’t there, and those tip-offs – like so many others that we received from hoaxers, ransom seekers, conmen and psychics – were never explained." Clarence Mitchell
Clarence Mitchell was working on behalf of the British people government to recover a missing British child.
Unlike the plethora of innuendo and downright lies emanating from the Amaral led death cult anything he says can be substantiated particularly when documented as in this instance by the British police.
Interesting that it was not the Policia Judiciaria who recorded these calls so particularly, even in the early days there was a lot of co-operation going on. Unfortunately even in the early days, Amaral's theory had already taken over.
Has anyone ever mentioned these calls, this farm, this raid, before?
I can see no mention of this supposedly significant development in Kate's book.
Nobody on the forum appears to have been aware of this and we haven't got a cite.
Did this supposedly significant development appear in Gerry's blog?
Is there any reason to suppose the British police did not inform the Portuguese police? Is there any reason to suppose this information would be purged from the PJ Files before they were released?
Until there is credible evidence to support this claim, I am filing this assertion in the same folder as the nanny rape whistles story.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 29, 2017, 10:46:07 AM
Has anyone ever mentioned these calls, this farm, this raid, before?
I can see no mention of this supposedly significant development in Kate's book.
Nobody on the forum appears to have been aware of this and we haven't got a cite.
Did this supposedly significant development appear in Gerry's blog?
Is there any reason to suppose the British police did not inform the Portuguese police? Is there any reason to suppose this information would be purged from the PJ Files before they were released?
Until there is credible evidence to support this claim, I am filing this assertion in the same folder as the nanny rape whistles story.
Doesn't matter where you put the report...what happens in this case is posters put in the bin any story which does not fit their agenda.....amaral ahs no credible evidence to support his accusations so perhaps ypou should put those in the same file
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 29, 2017, 12:15:52 PM
Doesn't matter where you put the report...what happens in this case is posters put in the bin any story which does not fit their agenda.....amaral ahs no credible evidence to support his accusations so perhaps ypou should put those in the same file
The issue wasn't Amaral's anything, was it?
It was Mitchell's unsupported claim of what at the minimum would have been a joint operation by the British and Spanish police.
So think it through. Is the word 'raid' correct? I cannot imagine the Spanish police in such a situation would have knocked on a door and enquired if Madeleine was being held inside. So 'raid' appears to be the correct terminology.
If anyone thinks Spanish police are permitted to raid because they feel like it, I don't. It's warrant time which means obtaining one after presenting sufficient evidence to whoever approves these in Spain.
All of this and not a snifter of this alleged significant development anywhere, except for Mr Mitchell's 10-year-story?
*&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 29, 2017, 12:33:39 PM
REMINDER RE FORUM RULES
As the tenth anniversary of Madeleine McCann's disappearance approaches with the inevitable media interest, the forum will undoubtedly attract a lot more guest readers. Please bear this in mind when commenting and above all please adhere to the rules at all times. In particular, please avoid going off topic as such posts will be removed.
Have a great bank holiday weekend! 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 29, 2017, 12:36:00 PM
It was Mitchell's unsupported claim of what at the minimum would have been a joint operation by the British and Spanish police.
So think it through. Is the word 'raid' correct? I cannot imagine the Spanish police in such a situation would have knocked on a door and enquired if Madeleine was being held inside. So 'raid' appears to be the correct terminology.
If anyone thinks Spanish police are permitted to raid because they feel like it, I don't. It's warrant time which means obtaining one after presenting sufficient evidence to whoever approves these in Spain.
All of this and not a snifter of this alleged significant development anywhere, except for Mr Mitchell's 10-year-story?
*&*%£
In the UK the police do not always need a warrant to enter a property. They can do so if they have reasonable cause, eg, to protect life, to capture a fugitive, deal with a breach of the peace. I do not know if the same laws apply in Spain (or to Metado3) but it's worth bearing in mind this is a case in which Interpol are involved. Just because it's not in the book/files doesn't mean the raid didn't happen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 29, 2017, 12:50:22 PM
In the UK the police do not always need a warrant to enter a property. They can do so if they have reasonable cause, eg, to protect life, to capture a fugitive, deal with a breach of the police. I do not know if the same laws apply in Spain (or to Metado3) but it's worth bearing in mind this is a case in which Interpol are involved. Just because it's not in the book/files doesn't mean the raid didn't happen.
No, it means the sole source is Mr Mitchell for this alleged raid, when there should be multiple verifications.
It should mean it should have been covered earlier, when it has not.
I wouldn't have an issue in accepting this tale if supporting evidence were to emerge. Until something like that happens, I am not wiling to accept this occurred merely because Mr Mitchell says so.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 29, 2017, 01:01:27 PM
No, it means the sole source is Mr Mitchell for this alleged raid, when there should be multiple verifications.
It should mean it should have been covered earlier, when it has not.
I wouldn't have an issue in accepting this tale if supporting evidence were to emerge. Until something like that happens, I am not wiling to accept this occurred merely because Mr Mitchell says so.
and it matters not a jot whether you brelieve it or not
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 29, 2017, 01:41:53 PM
Unfortunately AC Rowley offered no evidence to support his belief that Madeleine was abducted except that 'she was not old enough to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted.' Really? Has every missing child too young to walk out and start their own lives been abducted? I think not.
What other alternative is there then, once the nearest and dearest have been ruled out?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 29, 2017, 02:17:06 PM
Has anyone ever mentioned these calls, this farm, this raid, before?
I can see no mention of this supposedly significant development in Kate's book.
Nobody on the forum appears to have been aware of this and we haven't got a cite.
Did this supposedly significant development appear in Gerry's blog?
Is there any reason to suppose the British police did not inform the Portuguese police? Is there any reason to suppose this information would be purged from the PJ Files before they were released?
Until there is credible evidence to support this claim, I am filing this assertion in the same folder as the nanny rape whistles story.
Perhaps the clue may lie in the closing words ... were never explained ... unless you think it appropriate to put what might have been substantive evidence into the public domain for the benefit of a wrongdoer.
There will be many aspects of this case as of any other which we may never know ... but that does not detract from the important aspect which is finding Madeleine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 29, 2017, 02:26:32 PM
Unfortunately AC Rowley offered no evidence to support his belief that Madeleine was abducted except that 'she was not old enough to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment, she has been abducted.' Really? Has every missing child too young to walk out and start their own lives been abducted? I think not.
if the parents are not suspects...and as Kate says Maddie would not have closed curtain , door and two gates behind her then only abduction is left...abduction by deduction
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 29, 2017, 03:05:50 PM
Perhaps the clue may lie in the closing words ... were never explained ... unless you think it appropriate to put what might have been substantive evidence into the public domain for the benefit of a wrongdoer.
There will be many aspects of this case as of any other which we may never know ... but that does not detract from the important aspect which is finding Madeleine.
That does not alter my evaluation.
To believe it I would have to expect Gerry to keep stum about it, Kate to keep stum about it, Amaral to keep stum about it, the Spanish police to keep stum about it but Mr Mitchell to deem this fit and proper to disclose whilst there are 2 active investigations under way.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 29, 2017, 04:02:44 PM
To believe it I would have to expect Gerry to keep stum about it, Kate to keep stum about it, Amaral to keep stum about it, the Spanish police to keep stum about it but Mr Mitchell to deem this fit and proper to disclose whilst there are 2 active investigations under way.
It may no longer be necessary to keep it under wraps any longer ... in fact, I was wondering if this is the secret information which will be broken to us in the forthcoming documentary about Madeleine's case. Time will tell.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 29, 2017, 04:14:38 PM
if the parents are not suspects...and as Kate says Maddie would not have closed curtain , door and two gates behind her then only abduction is left...abduction by deduction
That's pretty much what Rowley said. He seems to have assumed the parents were not involved also.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 29, 2017, 04:15:22 PM
It may no longer be necessary to keep it under wraps any longer ... in fact, I was wondering if this is the secret information which will be broken to us in the forthcoming documentary about Madeleine's case. Time will tell.
If this appears on Sky or Panorama, and is presented in a credible manner, then I will be most happy to change my evaluation.
At the moment, I am doubtful it will appear on either. It is normal practice to avoid letting the cat out of the bag in advance.
But you are right in that we will know in a short space of time so we might as well wait. Where's the popcorn emoticon when you need one?
8@??)(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 29, 2017, 04:35:56 PM
You have been saying the McCanns had been investigated and ruled out by OG. They haven't.
The Met reviewed all the evidence and came to the conclusion (as would anybody with access to the files) that they din't dunnit. Which part of that do you struggle with?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 29, 2017, 05:44:08 PM
Erm....when you reach second in command of the Met it's fair to say you are a Top Cop. Here's his record FYI... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Rowley
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 29, 2017, 06:11:49 PM
No critical analysis from you then. Just the same blind belief in the parents and OG.
i think you are the one being blind.....SY examined the files...they agreed with the portuguese...thats two seperate police forces disagreeing with you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 29, 2017, 06:48:51 PM
i think you are the one being blind.....SY examined the files...they agreed with the portuguese...thats two seperate police forces disagreeing with you
Are you under the impression that the first investigation ruled out the parents? Not according to Portugal's most senior judges they didn't.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 29, 2017, 06:54:17 PM
No critical analysis from you then. Just the same blind belief in the parents and OG.
I think that's rather rude. Let's have some critical analysis from you that Operation Grange were too stupid and / or too lazy and / or corrupted by the High Ups to pursue the parents in the light of all the supposed evidence against them then? Over to you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 29, 2017, 06:55:27 PM
SCOTLAND Yard’s key suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is a woman, the Sunday Express can reveal.
By EXCLUSIVE BY CAROLINE WHEELER AND JAMES MURRAY PUBLISHED: 22:30, Sat, Apr 29, 2017
The hunt for the woman, who was spotted close to where the three year old went missing, is the critical lead in the investigation and has been described as “a hugely significant line of inquiry”.
The news comes as Madeleine’s parents gave a moving interview to mark the tenth anniversary of her disappearance.
Last month we revealed that the police had identified a person they wanted to question having been given an extra £85,000 to follow up the crucial lead.
The hunt was due to end within weeks as funding ran out.
But the fresh development means funding for the investigation will continue until September.
Last week Met Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said they still hoped they could provide answers to what happened.
The Scotland Yard chief said there are still “critical” leads that are of “great interest” to the investigation.
Full story will be published in the Sunday Express.
The Sunday Express is also publishing an eight page special report on the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance
Madeleine was in Praia da Luz with her parents Kate and Gerry when she went missing.
She disappeared from their apartment while the parents dined just 60 yards away.
On Wednesday, the famly including Madeleine's younger twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, now 12, will mark the 10th anniversary of her disappearance with an outdoor prayer service in their home village of Rothley.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 29, 2017, 11:47:59 PM
APRIL 30 2017 - 4:26AM
Madeleine McCann's parents are trying to protect their twins, 12, from online abuse
The parents of Madeleine McCann have spoken of the hurt caused by fake news and how they are now trying to protect their 12-year-old twins from online abuse.
In a moving interview to mark the tenth anniversary of the disappearance, Kate and Gerry McCann also tell of a new normality of adjusting to life after so long without their eldest child.
The McCanns also disclose they are taking their legal battle with the former Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral to the European courts after a judgment that ruled in his favour.
Madeleine was three when she vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve on May 3, 2007.
In their interview with the BBC's Fiona Bruce, Mrs McCann said they would do "whatever it takes for as long as it takes" to find their daughter.
Of the anniversary, she said: "I never thought we'd still be in this situation, so far along the line. It's a huge amount of time. In some ways it feels like it was only a few weeks ago, in other times it has felt really long. But it's a hard marker of time. It's time we should have had with Madeleine. We should have been a family of five for all that time. It just feels stolen."
Asked about the postings on the internet, Mrs McCann said they did their best to avoid social media.
But she said she was anxious for their children Sean and Amelie, who were two at the time, but are now beginning to use social media themselves.
"Our worry is for our children," said Mrs McCann, 49, a former GP, who disclosed she has started working again in medicine but not as a general practitioner.
"I think we've tried to educate them a little bit as well because obviously it's not just us that has fallen victim to the downside of social media."
Of the postings, she said: "I think it has been shocking... that aspect of human nature that I hadn't really encountered before. It's been striking and quite hard really to get your head round. Because why would somebody write that? Why would somebody add to someone's upset, why would someone in a position of ignorance do something like that?"
Mr McCann, 48, a cardiologist, added: "I don't want to dwell on the negative aspects too long, but I think in this era of fake news, it is extremely topical and I think people just need to think twice before what they write and the effects it has.
"Certainly I know ourselves with our own experience, both in the mainstream media and also on the internet, we just say I am not going to believe that until I see evidence of it.
"I'm sure it is a very small minority of people who spend their time doing it, but it has totally inhibited what we do. Personally, we don't use social media, although we have used it in Madeleine's campaign. But for our twins who are growing up in an era where mobile technology is used all the time, we don't want them not to be able to use it in the same way that their peers do."
The couple, from Rothley in Leicestershire, lamented that they had only been able to enjoy their "little perfect nuclear family of five" for such a short period of time.
Mr McCann, acknowledging the passing of time, said: "You adapt and you have a new normality. And unfortunately for us a new normality is a family of four.
"The last five years in particular has allowed us to really properly devote time to looking after the twins and ourselves and of course carrying on with our work.
"At some point you've got to realise that time is not frozen and I think both of us realise that we owed it to the twins to make sure that their life is as fulfilling as they deserve, and we have certainly tried our best to achieve that."
The couple's misery was compounded by finding themselves accused by the Portuguese police of being implicated in the disappearance.
Although they have been formally cleared by both Portuguese and British police for almost a decade, they remain locked in a legal battle with Amaral, who was sacked from the case but wrote a book about it.
The McCanns successfully sued Amaral for libel but the ex-detective won the latest round of the bitter dispute in the Portuguese supreme court.
Mr McCann said they would take the case to Europe because "the last judgment is terrible", adding: "We've got to challenge it, and we will do."
Mrs McCann said: "I find it all incomprehensible to be honest. It has been very upsetting, and it has caused a lot of frustration and anger which is a real negative emotion.
"I just have to hope that in the long run that justice will prevail."
The Sunday Telegraph
http://linkis.com/brisbanetimes.com.au/gH5v8
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 29, 2017, 11:53:57 PM
SCOTLAND Yard’s key suspect in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is a woman, the Sunday Express can reveal.
By EXCLUSIVE BY CAROLINE WHEELER AND JAMES MURRAY PUBLISHED: 22:30, Sat, Apr 29, 2017
The hunt for the woman, who was spotted close to where the three year old went missing, is the critical lead in the investigation and has been described as “a hugely significant line of inquiry”.
The news comes as Madeleine’s parents gave a moving interview to mark the tenth anniversary of her disappearance.
Last month we revealed that the police had identified a person they wanted to question having been given an extra £85,000 to follow up the crucial lead.
The hunt was due to end within weeks as funding ran out.
But the fresh development means funding for the investigation will continue until September.
Last week Met Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said they still hoped they could provide answers to what happened.
The Scotland Yard chief said there are still “critical” leads that are of “great interest” to the investigation.
Full story will be published in the Sunday Express.
The Sunday Express is also publishing an eight page special report on the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance
Madeleine was in Praia da Luz with her parents Kate and Gerry when she went missing.
She disappeared from their apartment while the parents dined just 60 yards away.
On Wednesday, the famly including Madeleine's younger twin siblings, Sean and Amelie, now 12, will mark the 10th anniversary of her disappearance with an outdoor prayer service in their home village of Rothley.
Please take my message as being in no way critical of you personally whatsoever, because the truth is I am grateful for being given a pointer as to what is going on.
Woman? The supposed woman who allegedly disappeared on a boat to Brazil, perhaps.
Revelation tomorrow? I shall wait and see.
The Sunday Express is also to publish an 8 page special on the 10th anniversary? I make that 3rd of May 2017, a Wednesday.
I presume they mean Sunday 30 Apr 2017.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2017, 07:31:22 AM
Please take my message as being in no way critical of you personally whatsoever, because the truth is I am grateful for being given a pointer as to what is going on.
Woman? The supposed woman who allegedly disappeared on a boat to Brazil, perhaps.
Revelation tomorrow? I shall wait and see.
The Sunday Express is also to publish an 8 page special on the 10th anniversary? I make that 3rd of May 2017, a Wednesday.
I presume they mean Sunday 30 Apr 2017.
Spotted close to where she went missing? Are they referring to the woman in purple perhaps?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 30, 2017, 07:42:20 AM
The woman who does not live in Portugal is do to be questioned, how far does SY jurisdiction spread unless of course its close to the UK.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 30, 2017, 07:45:48 AM
Well, if it's the woman in purple we have a good idea who she could have been.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 30, 2017, 07:48:20 AM
I think that's rather rude. Let's have some critical analysis from you that Operation Grange were too stupid and / or too lazy and / or corrupted by the High Ups to pursue the parents in the light of all the supposed evidence against them then? Over to you.
Rude? Compared to some on here my manners are impeccable.
There's no reason to assume OG were stupid, lazy or corrupt. Their remit was to investigate 'the abduction' and that is what they have done.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 30, 2017, 08:22:27 AM
Cryptic comments are fine never mind the bandwidth they take up but you either know or you don't know. If you do know ... please do share, otherwise please move on to something about which you do know enough to enable you to express an opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on April 30, 2017, 10:50:03 AM
You have been saying the McCanns had been investigated and ruled out by OG. They haven't.
Groundhog day G??
All the information in SY's possession was meticulously examined by a team of around 30 officers.
So - either they found but ignored evidence pointing to the McCanns - which would mean all those officers are corrupt - or they found no evidence pointing to the McCanns - hence their statement ruling them out as suspects.
The idea that so many police officers agreed to be part of a 'conspiracy' to exclude the McCanns from their investigatons is way too far fetched for me.
AIMHO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 30, 2017, 10:55:08 AM
Rude? Compared to some on here my manners are impeccable.
There's no reason to assume OG were stupid, lazy or corrupt. Their remit was to investigate 'the abduction' and that is what they have done.
there is every reason to assume the Met are stupid, lazy or corrupt if they haven't at any point considered the parents might have been involved especially if there is evidence to suggest they were (evidence you seem to consider exists in notable enough quantity).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 30, 2017, 11:04:54 AM
there is every reason to assume the Met are stupid, lazy or corrupt if they haven't at any point considered the parents might have been involved especially if there is evidence to suggest they were (evidence you seem to consider exists in notable enough quantity).
Its hard to understand and possibly understanderble just what SY are doing, question to and answer from Rowley.
Quote
Q: You say you haven’t got definitive evidence, do you have any clues at all which might explain what happened to her? MR: So, younger’ll understand from your experience, the way murder investigations work, detectives will start off with various hypotheses, about what’s happened in a murder, what has happened in a missing person’s investigation, whether someone has been abducted. All those different possibilities will be worked through. This case is no different from that but the evidence is limited at the moment to be cast iron as to which one of those hypotheses we should follow. So we have to keep an open mind. As I said we have some critical lines of enquiry, those linked to particular lines of enquiry, but I’m not going to discuss them today because they are very much live investigations.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 30, 2017, 11:18:03 AM
'I'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES'
'Kate McCann reveals she plans to buy missing Maddie a present for her 14th birthday in only interview to mark 10th anniversary of disappearance
The defiant couple have poured their hearts out as they admitted they should've been a 'family of five' for all this time'
The irony of those words is beyond redemption.
..and the use of 'defiant', also marks the article out.
All the information in SY's possession was meticulously examined by a team of around 30 officers.
So - either they found but ignored evidence pointing to the McCanns - which would mean all those officers are corrupt - or they found no evidence pointing to the McCanns - hence their statement ruling them out as suspects.
The idea that so many police officers agreed to be part of a 'conspiracy' to exclude the McCanns from their investigatons is way too far fetched for me.
AIMHO
Do you have any idea how a team works? Do you have an idea how a hierarchical organisation works? If you do you will understand that 30 police officers wouldn't be involved in assessing all the evidence or in any decisions taken about what that evidence meant.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 30, 2017, 02:19:26 PM
Do you have any idea how a team works? Do you have an idea how a hierarchical organisation works? If you do you will understand that 30 police officers wouldn't be involved in assessing all the evidence or in any decisions taken about what that evidence meant.
Hogan Howe alluded to this back last April when asked what did 30 officers do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 30, 2017, 06:41:30 PM
Do you have any idea how a team works? Do you have an idea how a hierarchical organisation works? If you do you will understand that 30 police officers wouldn't be involved in assessing all the evidence or in any decisions taken about what that evidence meant.
Do you think most of Op Grange's team don't have the ability to think for themselves, or have enquiring minds, do you think if an one of them had voiced suspicions about the parents they'd be told to keep quiet?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on April 30, 2017, 07:59:29 PM
Do you think most of Op Grange's team don't have the ability to think for themselves, or have enquiring minds, do you think if an one of them had voiced suspicions about the parents they'd be told to keep quiet?
They would do what their superiors told them to do.
Meanwhile they would have had no trouble donating to Amaral's fund.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 30, 2017, 09:13:46 PM
Do you think most of Op Grange's team don't have the ability to think for themselves, or have enquiring minds, do you think if an one of them had voiced suspicions about the parents they'd be told to keep quiet?
Do you understand hierarchical organisations? Do you understand how tasks are allocated and carried out? You can think what you like but you do what you're told.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 30, 2017, 11:27:08 PM
Do you understand hierarchical organisations? Do you understand how tasks are allocated and carried out? You can think what you like but you do what you're told.
There is nothing quite like being patronized by G-Unit, it's such a pleasure and a privilege. Perhaps you could explain why those at the top of the heirarchy in this case would instruct those below them to ignore or keep silent about any suspicions or evidence of guilt concerning the parents, and don't just say "remit" please. You have previously claimed that the Met only bothered to read the archiving report which they misunderstod according to you and thought the Portuguese had cleared the parents so decided to put any suspicions they may have had out of their minds. Have you any idea how ridiculous that claim is? It would mean the Met are lying to us about the amount of work they put in to Operation Grange, and are also incredibly lazy and incredibly stupid. Is this your opinion of them or not?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on April 30, 2017, 11:51:04 PM
Amaral on Portuguese TV tonight:
He said: “We had information three figures went into the church via a side door at night. They had a box and there was to be a cremation of a British woman. It is possible the child’s remains were in this box and cremated as well. The parents had the key to the church.”
What a tw...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 30, 2017, 11:52:40 PM
He said: “We had information three figures went into the church via a side door at night. They had a box and there was to be a cremation of a British woman. It is possible the child’s remains were in this box and cremated as well. The parents had the key to the church.”
What a tw...
Cite.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on April 30, 2017, 11:53:15 PM
He said: “We had information three figures went into the church via a side door at night. They had a box and there was to be a cremation of a British woman. It is possible the child’s remains were in this box and cremated as well. The parents had the key to the church.”
What a tw...
Here's a report in the Sun. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3450890/shamed-ex-portuguese-top-cop-goncalo-amaral-claims-madeleines-body-was-hidden-in-coffin-then-burned/
He's well & truly lost the plot.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 01, 2017, 12:03:49 AM
Here's a report in the Sun. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3450890/shamed-ex-portuguese-top-cop-goncalo-amaral-claims-madeleines-body-was-hidden-in-coffin-then-burned/
He's well & truly lost the plot.
Thank you.
Let me check the Portuguese channels.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 01, 2017, 12:10:58 AM
3 main channels checked. Nothing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 01, 2017, 12:12:17 AM
A list of police questions which Madeleine McCann’s mother Kate refused to answer three months after her daughter disappeared has re-emerged in the media as the 10 year anniversary of her disappearance approaches.
In an interview with Fiona Bruce, Madeleine’s father, Gerry McCann, hit out at “fake news” and the hurt that speculation and conspiracy theories have caused to the family.
But the list of 48 questions Mrs McCann refused to answer has made headlines again a decade after the four-year-old vanished from the family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
It would be really great if they sat down with some interviewer (even Goncalo) and answered them.
43 In the case files, you were shown canine forensic testing films. After watching them, did you say you couldn't explain any more than you already had?
44 When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
45 When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
46 When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
47 When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, carried out in a British lab, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/48-questions-kate-mccann-refused-to-answer-madeleine-disappearance-portugal-a7710111.html
Kate McCann already had answered all these questions. At the time of the above re-interrogation when she had been constituted arguida ... she exercised her legal right to remain silent. Gerry McCann did not exercise his legal right and did answer questions put to him.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 01, 2017, 06:32:46 AM
43 In the case files, you were shown canine forensic testing films. After watching them, did you say you couldn't explain any more than you already had?
44 When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
45 When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
46 When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
47 When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, carried out in a British lab, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/48-questions-kate-mccann-refused-to-answer-madeleine-disappearance-portugal-a7710111.html
Kate McCann already had answered all these questions. At the time of the above re-interrogation when she had been constituted arguida ... she exercised her legal right to remain silent. Gerry McCann did not exercise his legal right and did answer questions put to him.
When did Kate previously answer the questions?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 01, 2017, 09:04:07 AM
Do you think the Policia Judiciaria are lying when they conclude those questions with ... "did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?"
You are the file 'expert' ~ you know precisely when and for how long Kate was interviewed prior to being constituted arguida ~ you won't know what the questioning consisted of but it is known that she had already provided answers to questions 43 ~ 44 ~ 45 ~ 46 and 47. Unless you have your doubts about the veracity of the PJ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 01, 2017, 10:14:52 AM
Do you think the Policia Judiciaria are lying when they conclude those questions with ... "did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?"
You are the file 'expert' ~ you know precisely when and for how long Kate was interviewed prior to being constituted arguida ~ you won't know what the questioning consisted of but it is known that she had already provided answers to questions 43 ~ 44 ~ 45 ~ 46 and 47. Unless you have your doubts about the veracity of the PJ?
I don't know where those quotes come from. What was actually reported in the files was;
she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_07-09-07.htm
That seems to be Kate saying she has mentioned and explained everything she knew and has nothing to add.
There was an alleged interview with Encarnacao and Neves but it was not recorded so neither I nor the PJ would know what was said that day. If incriminating questions were asked with no lawyer or interpreter present that was a clear breach of the process and the McCanns should have immediately launched an official complaint.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 01, 2017, 10:38:57 AM
I don't know where those quotes come from. What was actually reported in the files was;
she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_07-09-07.htm
That seems to be Kate saying she has mentioned and explained everything she knew and has nothing to add.
There was an alleged interview with Encarnacao and Neves but it was not recorded so neither I nor the PJ would know what was said that day. If incriminating questions were asked with no lawyer or interpreter present that was a clear breach of the process and the McCanns should have immediately launched an official complaint.
It's good to see you admit that those may have been incriminating questions and that there may have been a breach of process, which explains why Kate McCann refused to answer their questions as an arguido.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 01, 2017, 10:40:05 AM
I don't know where those quotes come from. What was actually reported in the files was;
she said that she can not explain anything more than that already mentioned. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_07-09-07.htm
That seems to be Kate saying she has mentioned and explained everything she knew and has nothing to add.
There was an alleged interview with Encarnacao and Neves but it was not recorded so neither I nor the PJ would know what was said that day. If incriminating questions were asked with no lawyer or interpreter present that was a clear breach of the process and the McCanns should have immediately launched an official complaint.
Sure that would be a piece of cake!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 01, 2017, 11:41:47 AM
43 In the case files, you were shown canine forensic testing films. After watching them, did you say you couldn't explain any more than you already had?
44 When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
45 When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
46 When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
47 When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, carried out in a British lab, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/48-questions-kate-mccann-refused-to-answer-madeleine-disappearance-portugal-a7710111.html
Kate McCann already had answered all these questions. At the time of the above re-interrogation when she had been constituted arguida ... she exercised her legal right to remain silent. Gerry McCann did not exercise his legal right and did answer questions put to him.
I totally agree Brie that everyone has a legal right to remain silent and that right is enshrined in Law but by the same token an investigator has the right to interpret such conduct in any way they choose depending on the circumstances.
Gerry McCann felt able to answer all the questions put to him yet his wife took the legal option and refused to answer. Given that the police were perfectly within their rights to question them as suspects and parents of a missing child does it not appear strange if not borderline sinister that a mother should display such arrogance?
My own view is that Kate should have played along with the police and answered everything fully and in great detail and in the end they would have got the message. Kindness always achieves so much more than intransigence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on May 01, 2017, 11:52:03 AM
I totally agree Brie that everyone has a legal right to remain silent and that right is enshrined in Law but by the same token an investigator has the right to interpret such conduct in any way they choose depending on the circumstances.
Gerry McCann felt able to answer all the questions put to him yet his wife took the legal option and refused to answer. Given that the police were perfectly within their rights to question them as suspects and parents of a missing child does it not appear strange if not borderline sinister that a mother should display such arrogance?
My own view is that Kate should have played along with the police and answered everything fully and in great detail and in the end they would have got the message. Kindness always achieved so much more than intransigence.
Would you say that the police were within their legal rights to lie (as, unquestionably, they did in so many of the questions they asked, and particularly, the 'information' they presented)?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 01, 2017, 11:54:10 AM
I totally agree Brie that everyone has a legal right to remain silent and that right is enshrined in Law but by the same token an investigator has the right to interpret such conduct in any way they choose depending on the circumstances.
Gerry McCann felt able to answer all the questions put to him yet his wife took the legal option and refused to answer. Given that the police were perfectly within their rights to question them as suspects and parents of a missing child does it not appear strange if not borderline sinister that a mother should display such arrogance?
My own view is that Kate should have played along with the police and answered everything fully and in great detail and in the end they would have got the message. Kindness always achieves so much more than intransigence.
Odd that you would view answering potentially incriminating questions put by the police as an act of kindness. Some might class it as an act of naivety or foolishness, but kindness....?! Hardly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 01, 2017, 11:54:30 AM
It's good to see you admit that those may have been incriminating questions and that there may have been a breach of process, which explains why Kate McCann refused to answer their questions as an arguido.
If Encarnacao and Neves acted unlawfully the question remains why the McCanns never complained. Kate was made arguido because her answers might have incriminated her, not the questions.
I find the questions about the children most interesting. Why did the PJ suspect that she didn't cope well?
Asked whether or not it is true that the twins have difficulty sleeping, that they are restless and that that causes her uneasiness, she did not respond.
--- Asked whether or not it is true that at certain times she felt desperate [driven to despair; angered; exasperated] by the attitude of the children and that that left her much disquiet [unease], she did not respond.
--- Asked whether or not it is true that in England she was thinking to deliver MADELEINE into the custody [guardianship] of a family member, she did not respond. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_07-09-07.htm
No-one, to my knowledge, has said Kate struggled with her children. The only reports on that subject came in September 2007;
Portuguese newspapers said she wrote in her diary about her difficulties with her children
Odd that you would view answering potentially incriminating questions put by the police as an act of kindness. Some might class it as an act of naivety or foolishness, but kindness....?! Hardly.
Honesty is the best policy Alfie.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 01, 2017, 12:02:15 PM
If Encarnacao and Neves acted unlawfully the question remains why the McCanns never complained. Kate was made arguido because her answers might have incriminated her, not the questions.
I find the questions about the children most interesting. Why did the PJ suspect that she didn't cope well?
Asked whether or not it is true that the twins have difficulty sleeping, that they are restless and that that causes her uneasiness, she did not respond.
--- Asked whether or not it is true that at certain times she felt desperate [driven to despair; angered; exasperated] by the attitude of the children and that that left her much disquiet [unease], she did not respond.
--- Asked whether or not it is true that in England she was thinking to deliver MADELEINE into the custody [guardianship] of a family member, she did not respond. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_07-09-07.htm
No-one, to my knowledge, has said Kate struggled with her children. The only reports on that subject came in September 2007;
Portuguese newspapers said she wrote in her diary about her difficulties with her children
Either they were making things up or we didn't see everything the diary/diaries contained.
Mischevious post. They were fishing nothing more. Do you really think Kate would have written about her inability to cope with Madeleine / her other children in a diary written after the child's disappearance, if this inability to cope had played any part whatsoever in the child's disappearance?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 01, 2017, 12:03:48 PM
That's what police detectives do for a living Alfie, they fish for ANSWERS.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 01, 2017, 12:06:48 PM
That's what police detectives do for a living Alfie, they fish for ANSWERS.
Why play their game then if it can only end up looking bad for you? Suppose Kate really struggled with the kids, suppose they were bad sleepers, suppose she had often been at her wit's end - suppose she admitted all this to the police? She has handed them motive on a plate, even if this lack of ability to cope had nothing whatsoever to do with MAdeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 01, 2017, 12:11:12 PM
Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have identified a female suspect who they believe could be the key to solving the case, reports suggest.
Investigators are said to have searched all over Europe for the woman, who was seen close to the apartment in Praia de Luz, Portugal from which Madeleine was taken. Sources say officers will soon be in a position to question the suspect.
“Detectives have scoured Europe looking for this woman who is thought to hold the key to solving the entire case,” a source told the Sunday Express.
“After months of tireless police work they will soon be in a position to move in and finally get some answers after a decade of dead ends. It is a hugely significant line of inquiry that officers hope could lead to an arrest.”
It was revealed earlier in the year that Metropolitan Police officers working on the case, codenamed Operation Grange, had identified a new person who they wanted to question and had been given an extra £85,000 by the Home Office to pursue the lead. The investigation, which to date has cost £11m, had been due to be closed but will now continue until at least September.
Madeleine, then three years old, disappeared from her family’s holiday apartment in the Algarve on 3 May 2007. Her mother, Kate, discovered her missing when she went to check on her during a meal with friends and found the window open and her oldest daughter gone.
The disappearance sparked one of the biggest missing person investigations of all time, with teams in both the UK and Portugal assessing hundreds of potential lines of inquiry and persons of interest.
The latest development comes as Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, vowed to do “whatever it takes for as long as it takes” to find out what happened to their daughter.
During an interview with BBC presenter Fiona Bruce to coincide with the ten-year anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance, Ms McCann said:‘‘We’ve come a long way and there is progress and there are some very credible lines of inquiry that the police are working on.
“Whilst there’s no evidence to give us any negative news, hope is still there.”
Mr McCann added: ‘‘They’ve managed to pull so much together and sift through so much information, so now we do seem to be on just several lines of inquiry rather than tens/hundreds.”
"We just have to go with the process and follow it through - whatever it takes for as long as it takes. There is still hope that we can find Madeleine."
Mischevious post. They were fishing nothing more. Do you really think Kate would have written about her inability to cope with Madeleine / her other children in a diary written after the child's disappearance, if this inability to cope had played any part whatsoever in the child's disappearance?
I would be grateful if you would keep your thoughts about the nature of my posts to yourself. Your opinion carries no weight and adds nothing to any discussion.
One diary or two diaries?
Authorise the Public Ministry to validate the apprehension of the “two diaries” and a block note obtained during the search authorised by the dispatch contained in pages 2082 and 2083. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BIBLE.htm
The NoTW said;
The 135-page journal covering April 28, 2007 to Tuesday, July 31. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/19-Sep8/NOTW-14-09-08.htm
The case files said;
Inside the envelope is another sealed envelope containing 188 photocopies, 187 are handwritten and one typed. My examination of these photocopies indicates that this is a “diary” http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BIBLE.htm
It seems that 53 pages were not obtained or printed by the NoTW.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 01, 2017, 12:30:03 PM
I would be grateful if you would keep your thoughts about the nature of my posts to yourself. Your opinion carries no weight and adds nothing to any discussion.
One diary or two diaries?
Authorise the Public Ministry to validate the apprehension of the “two diaries” and a block note obtained during the search authorised by the dispatch contained in pages 2082 and 2083. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BIBLE.htm
The NoTW said;
The 135-page journal covering April 28, 2007 to Tuesday, July 31. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/19-Sep8/NOTW-14-09-08.htm
The case files said;
Inside the envelope is another sealed envelope containing 188 photocopies, 187 are handwritten and one typed. My examination of these photocopies indicates that this is a “diary” http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BIBLE.htm
It seems that 53 pages were not obtained or printed by the NoTW.
If I wish to express my opinion of your post I will, whether you like it or not. Once again I ask: Do you really think Kate would have written about her inability to cope with Madeleine / her other children in a diary written after the child's disappearance, if this inability to cope had played any part whatsoever in the child's disappearance?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 01, 2017, 12:32:34 PM
I would be grateful if you would keep your thoughts about the nature of my posts to yourself. Your opinion carries no weight and adds nothing to any discussion.
One diary or two diaries?
Authorise the Public Ministry to validate the apprehension of the “two diaries” and a block note obtained during the search authorised by the dispatch contained in pages 2082 and 2083. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BIBLE.htm
The NoTW said;
The 135-page journal covering April 28, 2007 to Tuesday, July 31. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/19-Sep8/NOTW-14-09-08.htm
The case files said;
Inside the envelope is another sealed envelope containing 188 photocopies, 187 are handwritten and one typed. My examination of these photocopies indicates that this is a “diary” http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/BIBLE.htm
It seems that 53 pages were not obtained or printed by the NoTW.
Did Amaral have access to these 53 pages?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 01, 2017, 12:42:32 PM
If I wish to express my opinion of your post I will, whether you like it or not. Once again I ask: Do you really think Kate would have written about her inability to cope with Madeleine / her other children in a diary written after the child's disappearance, if this inability to cope had played any part whatsoever in the child's disappearance?
You can say what you like and I will comment on it every time unless it adds to the debate.
You assume there was only one diary begun after M's disappearance. Perhaps there were two of them, one of which recorded her thoughts and feelings before the event.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 01, 2017, 12:54:50 PM
You can say what you like and I will comment on it every time unless it adds to the debate.
You assume there was only one diary begun after M's disappearance. Perhaps there were two of them, one of which recorded her thoughts and feelings before the event.
Now you are doing the assuming. Any evidence for this speculation? If the diary is incriminating why aren't the 'missing' incriminating passages mentioned in Amaral's book? He missed a trick there didn't he?! Perhaps he's saving it up for Volume 2. Talking of which....we were promised his new book at the end of April... &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 01, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
You can say what you like and I will comment on it every time unless it adds to the debate.
You assume there was only one diary begun after M's disappearance. Perhaps there were two of them, one of which recorded her thoughts and feelings before the event.
Copies of which were ordered by a Portuguese Judge to be destroyed after they were unlawfully taken. So we won't ever know what was true or untrue. But somehow were leaked to The Media.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 01, 2017, 02:00:10 PM
I totally agree Brie that everyone has a legal right to remain silent and that right is enshrined in Law but by the same token an investigator has the right to interpret such conduct in any way they choose depending on the circumstances.
Gerry McCann felt able to answer all the questions put to him yet his wife took the legal option and refused to answer. Given that the police were perfectly within their rights to question them as suspects and parents of a missing child does it not appear strange if not borderline sinister that a mother should display such arrogance?
My own view is that Kate should have played along with the police and answered everything fully and in great detail and in the end they would have got the message. Kindness always achieves so much more than intransigence.
Having looked at the questions, I firmly believe that had Kate McCann answered the questions put to her there would have been supplementary questions the answers to which would have been used by the Policia Judiciaria to incriminate her.
You better than anyone knows how it works.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on May 01, 2017, 03:21:21 PM
Why play their game then if it can only end up looking bad for you? Suppose Kate really struggled with the kids, suppose they were bad sleepers, suppose she had often been at her wit's end - suppose she admitted all this to the police? She has handed them motive on a plate, even if this lack of ability to cope had nothing whatsoever to do with MAdeleine's disappearance.
IMO that is exactly what they were trying to do i.e. prove that Kate had not bonded with Madeleine and didn't care about her - in fact she was more of a nuisance to her than anything else. Didn't they do a similar job on Leanora Cipriano?
The fact that they treated newspaper tittle tattle, gossip and rumour as serious evidence on which to base questions is what I found to be so jaw-dropping.
The question - ''What does 'We let her down' mean'' was positively cringeworthy IMO - when all they had to do was ask one of the UK police officers who had been working alongside them for months on end.
If that and other questions was a mark of their professionalism then it left a lot to be desired IMO. But then what can you expect from policemen who claimed that it was a dream which changed the whole direction of this case.
The best decision Kate ever made IMO was to claim her right as an arguido not to reply. AIMHO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 01, 2017, 06:30:18 PM
IMO that is exactly what they were trying to do i.e. prove that Kate had not bonded with Madeleine and didn't care about her - in fact she was more of a nuisance to her than anything else. Didn't they do a similar job on Leanora Cipriano?
The fact that they treated newspaper tittle tattle, gossip and rumour as serious evidence on which to base questions is what I found to be so jaw-dropping.
The question - ''What does 'We let her down' mean'' was positively cringeworthy IMO - when all they had to do was ask one of the UK police officers who had been working alongside them for months on end.
If that and other questions was a mark of their professionalism then it left a lot to be desired IMO. But then what can you expect from policemen who claimed that it was a dream which changed the whole direction of this case.
The best decision Kate ever made IMO was to claim her right as an arguido not to reply. AIMHO
Given that it moved the investigation not a jot further forward, I disagree.
It impeded a chance to find out what happened to Madeleine.
It left Kate with a legacy of 'no comment', which further damaged her standing in Portugal.
It was a major own goal.
IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 01, 2017, 06:43:43 PM
IMO that is exactly what they were trying to do i.e. prove that Kate had not bonded with Madeleine and didn't care about her - in fact she was more of a nuisance to her than anything else. Didn't they do a similar job on Leanora Cipriano?
The fact that they treated newspaper tittle tattle, gossip and rumour as serious evidence on which to base questions is what I found to be so jaw-dropping.
The question - ''What does 'We let her down' mean'' was positively cringeworthy IMO - when all they had to do was ask one of the UK police officers who had been working alongside them for months on end.
If that and other questions was a mark of their professionalism then it left a lot to be desired IMO. But then what can you expect from policemen who claimed that it was a dream which changed the whole direction of this case.
The best decision Kate ever made IMO was to claim her right as an arguido not to reply. AIMHO
Quite. There is not a single thing Kate could have said that would have helped the PJ to find Madeleine. They were barking up the wrong tree and nothing Kate could have replied to those dumbass questions would have changed that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 01, 2017, 06:47:52 PM
Those questions will go down in the history of infamy.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on May 01, 2017, 06:56:47 PM
I'm curious. In what way would 'not answering' the 48 questions have impeded the chance to find Madeleine?
In what way does 'no comment' impede an investigation in the UK? It denies the police access to information. It suggests to the police that they are on the track of a guilty party.
Both negatives if Madeleine was to get justice.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 01, 2017, 07:24:12 PM
In what way does 'no comment' impede an investigation in the UK? It denies the police access to information. It suggests to the police that they are on the track of a guilty party.
Both negatives if Madeleine was to get justice.
are you saying that kate not answerring the questions suggests she is guilty ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 01, 2017, 09:27:17 PM
In what way does 'no comment' impede an investigation in the UK? It denies the police access to information. It suggests to the police that they are on the track of a guilty party.
Both negatives if Madeleine was to get justice.
you state quite clearly that being silent suggests to the police they are on the track of a guilty party...kate wa silent so ...by your logic...that would suggest to the police they are on the track of a guilty party...no distortion whatsoever
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 01, 2017, 10:23:12 PM
In what way does 'no comment' impede an investigation in the UK? It denies the police access to information. It suggests to the police that they are on the track of a guilty party.
Both negatives if Madeleine was to get justice.
Madeleine was never going to 'get justice' if either of her parents had been incarcerated in a Portuguese goal though, was she?
The Policia Judiciaria being convinced they had in their hands the 'guilty party' weren't interested in Madeleine. Goodness gracious me the lead investigator went to the trouble of writing a book to affirm that.
As has been proven by events ... the only hope Madeleine had was her parents.
The policia Judiciaria had chosen their culprit ... and despite no supporting evidence had decided Madeleine was dead.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 01, 2017, 10:28:09 PM
But if you have to distort my post to make a point,
8((()*/
My reading of your post is exactly how Davel interpreted it. So as far as two individuals are concerned you actually did say it although not in so many words.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 01, 2017, 10:30:25 PM
I left my apartment pushing my son's pram so that he could sleep. I did not have a particular direction to follow nor did I have a specific time to do this. I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner.
Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
Madeleine was never going to 'get justice' if either of her parents had been incarcerated in a Portuguese goal though, was she?
The Policia Judiciaria being convinced they had in their hands the 'guilty party' weren't interested in Madeleine. Goodness gracious me the lead investigator went to the trouble of writing a book to affirm that.
As has been proven by events ... the only hope Madeleine had was her parents.
The policia Judiciaria had chosen their culprit ... and despite no supporting evidence had decided Madeleine was dead.
I would class that as propaganda.
The McCanns were left free to leave Portugal, which is not what would have happened if they were deemed guilty.
The 'incarcerated parent' mantra wore thin a long time ago.
If charged, the McCanns would have had access to the lawyer of their choice. And there would have been a trial, eagerly followed by the media, including the Brits. And the McCanns had unprecedented diplomatic access.
Other than reality, there is nothing wrong about the 'incarcerated parent' mantra.
Pity Madeleine was let down again, IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 01, 2017, 11:29:06 PM
Why didn't the PJ insist on a reconstruction to clarify the timeline before they made the McCanns arguidos instead of treating it as an afterthought when all other avenues of possible prosecution had failed?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 01, 2017, 11:36:05 PM
The McCanns were left free to leave Portugal, which is not what would have happened if they were deemed guilty.
The 'incarcerated parent' mantra wore thin a long time ago.
If charged, the McCanns would have had access to the lawyer of their choice. And there would have been a trial, eagerly followed by the media, including the Brits. And the McCanns had unprecedented diplomatic access.
Other than reality, there is nothing wrong about the 'incarcerated parent' mantra.
Pity Madeleine was let down again, IMO.
there was a possibility of being held on remand...for up to a year as I remember....maddie was let down by the pj..imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 01, 2017, 11:59:59 PM
Why didn't the PJ insist on a reconstruction to clarify the timeline before they made the McCanns arguidos instead of treating it as an afterthought when all other avenues of possible prosecution had failed?
Timescale.
It's somewhere in Kate's book. The date when they informed Bob Small / PJ they were going home.
The T9 were later invited to a reconstruction. The invitation was declined.
The PJ had no power to insist that people in the UK were obliged to take part in a reconstruction.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 02, 2017, 12:07:03 AM
Jez Wilkins left on 5 May 2007. Perhaps you think they should have got round to it on the 4th, even as the first interviews were being conducted.
8((()*/
you have misread/misunderstood the post...by the time they got round to it everyone...including the mccanns had left...your sniping is getting tiresome...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 02, 2017, 01:13:31 AM
you have misread/misunderstood the post...by the time they got round to it everyone...including the mccanns had left...your sniping is getting tiresome...
Is there something you do not understand about the departure dates of Jez Wilkins and the T7?
Yet for a 'reason' that you have not yet given, the reconstruction deadline you choose is after the date the McCanns informed the PJ they were flying out.
If you ignore the facts, the remaining vacuum fits any agenda.
What can I say. Duran Duran. Hungry like the wolf.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2017, 01:17:58 AM
Why didn't the PJ insist on a reconstruction to clarify the timeline before they made the McCanns arguidos instead of treating it as an afterthought when all other avenues of possible prosecution had failed?
Having given some thought to that ... perhaps it is the difference between inefficient cop and efficient cop.
Amaral should have and could have called for a reconstruction as soon as it could be arranged while many people who were in the resort on the 3rd were still in situ. In a holiday town with a transient population speed before people moved on would have been essential.
One definite advantage would have been that the Smith family might have remembered their encounter and realised its significance earlier than the fortnight it took for the realisation to dawn on Peter.
Kate and Gerry were constituted arguidos by the Amaral investigation.
On taking over the investigation Rebelo did what should have been done initially. He personally went back to the root of the case starting at Apartment 5.
He tried to arrange a reconstruction because that is what should have been done but was not by the first investigation. I think he was between a rock and a hard place with that particularly as the Portuguese notion of a reconstitution differs from our model and neither the twain shall meet. Although the Amaral Documentary had no problem with reconstruction and the opportunity to show copious clinking of glasses among empty bottles and portray a parody of the parent's grief.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 02, 2017, 01:18:40 AM
Is there something you do not understand about the departure dates of Jez Wilkins and the T7?
Yet for a 'reason' that you have not yet given, the reconstruction deadline you choose is after the date the McCanns informed the PJ they were flying out.
If you ignore the facts, the remaining vacuum fits any agenda.
What can I say. Duran Duran. Hungry like the wolf.
i think you are confused ...I havent suggested any date
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2017, 01:36:25 AM
The McCanns were left free to leave Portugal, which is not what would have happened if they were deemed guilty.
The 'incarcerated parent' mantra wore thin a long time ago.
If charged, the McCanns would have had access to the lawyer of their choice. And there would have been a trial, eagerly followed by the media, including the Brits. And the McCanns had unprecedented diplomatic access.
Other than reality, there is nothing wrong about the 'incarcerated parent' mantra.
Pity Madeleine was let down again, IMO.
As arguidos the McCanns had access to the lawyer of their choice.
The "unprecedented diplomatic access" might have been as a result of the unprecedented nature of Madeleine's case.
The case you make falls at the first hurdle ... Cipriano. The second ... missing keys for block 5. The third ... the burglaries rife throughout the holiday complex. The fourth ... the burglaries which had occurred in block 5 and in the corresponding apartment to the McCann's in block 4. The fifth ... the spate of intruder attacks on little British girls in their holiday accommodation while their parents slept in an adjoining room.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 02, 2017, 02:24:41 AM
As arguidos the McCanns had access to the lawyer of their choice.
The "unprecedented diplomatic access" might have been as a result of the unprecedented nature of Madeleine's case.
The case you make falls at the first hurdle ... Cipriano. The second ... missing keys for block 5. The third ... the burglaries rife throughout the holiday complex. The fourth ... the burglaries which had occurred in block 5 and in the corresponding apartment to the McCann's in block 4. The fifth ... the spate of intruder attacks on little British girls in their holiday accommodation while their parents slept in an adjoining room.
Propaganda.
Cipriano is not relevant. Prove any key went missing. Prove rife burglaries in the Ocean Club. Or even in Luz. Prove spate of attacks on little British girls in their holiday accommodation while their parents slept in an adjoining room.
Kindly get a move on. Luz tour 6 is underway, and I am sure my visitor would be interested in the facts
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2017, 02:33:36 AM
Cipriano is not relevant. Prove any key went missing. Prove rife burglaries in the Ocean Club. Or even in Luz. Prove spate of attacks on little British girls in their holiday accommodation while their parents slept in an adjoining room.
Kindly get a move on. Luz tour 6 is underway, and I am sure my visitor would be interested in the facts
What a genuinely weird response to my post.
Hey ho, anyway ... (please don't link to your favourite recording, Alice) have a nice time with your guest I'm sure you will both enjoy.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 02, 2017, 03:55:02 AM
Cipriano is not relevant. Prove any key went missing. Prove rife burglaries in the Ocean Club. Or even in Luz. Prove spate of attacks on little British girls in their holiday accommodation while their parents slept in an adjoining room.
Kindly get a move on. Luz tour 6 is underway, and I am sure my visitor would be interested in the facts
They haven't got young kids have they? Keep their doors locked this time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 02, 2017, 11:20:17 AM
The woman in purple? Mrs Murat never told the police about this woman, according to the files. She did tell the story to a newspaper some years ago. Are OG getting their leads from newspaper articles now?
'Woman in purple' is prime suspect in Madeleine McCann disappearance after witness saw her outside apartment
The witness says she saw the woman looking up at the apartments, “watching intently” and a police insider said they were ready to “move in” and arrest the mystery women
BYTRACEY KANDOHLA 08:58, 2 MAY 2017
A mystery “woman in purple” is the prime suspect British police are thought to be searching for over Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
Jenny Murat, 79, has told how she saw the woman outside the apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, which Maddie vanished from in 2007.
Jenny, whose son Robert was the first “arguido” – official suspect – but was formally cleared of suspicion in 2008, said: “I saw the woman standing on the corner of the street.”
The woman was looking up at the apartments, “watching intently” .
Jenny said: “She caught my eye as she was dressed in purple-plum clothes.
“It struck me as strange. It’s so usual for anyone, particularly a woman, to be standing alone on the street in our resort, just watching a building.”
The next morning she heard that Maddie had gone missing and told police about the woman. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-purple-prime-suspect-madeleine-10336719
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2017, 11:34:15 AM
Interesting. I thought they passed information to the police who ignored it. Well, they got it all in the end, didn't they?
McCanns 'fell out' with police over search for Madeleine A Home Office report details the "turbulent relationship" between the McCanns and Portuguese and British law enforcement. 06:38, UK, Tuesday 02 May 2017
By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent
The parents of Madeleine McCann claimed they were treated badly by Portuguese police from the start of the investigation into her disappearance, according to a secret Home Office report.
They eventually fell out with UK authorities too and later did not share with police information gathered by their own private investigators.
The revelations are contained in a report ordered by the then Home Secretary Alan Johnson who wanted to know if it was worth getting Scotland Yard involved after Portuguese officers closed their first investigation.
The report said: "It is clear that from the beginning the McCanns felt there was a lack of clarity and communication on the part of the Portuguese police.
"Despite the involvement of British consular staff, they were, by their own accounts, left for long periods without any updates or communication with the investigators.
"They state they were taken to the police station on more than one occasion and then left for hours waiting to speak to someone who never materialised.
"They describe this situation as inhumane, with no real consideration for their emotional and physical wellbeing."
The report, written by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, also said too many UK law enforcement agencies had rushed to help and caused chaos, and that frequent criticism of the Portuguese investigation led to accusations the UK was acting like "a colonial power".
The report said: "Clearly, the McCanns have had a turbulent relationship with both Portuguese and UK law enforcement. They now openly acknowledge that there is a distinct lack of trust between all parties."
Even before the end of the first Portuguese investigation, Kate and Gerry McCann used money collected by their Madeleine Fund to hire private investigators. They continued to use them for the three years before Scotland Yard got involved.
The report said: "It is clear that the McCanns and the private investigators working on their behalf have gathered a large amount of information during the course of their enquiries. This information does not appear to have been shared fully with the Leicestershire constabulary or the Portuguese authorities.
"It is imperative that they are encouraged and persuaded to share this information."
The report led to Scotland Yard launching a review and later its own investigation in 2011.
It recommended the setting up of a UK national centre for missing children to better coordinate the response when British children go missing abroad. That has never happened.
Mr Johnson supported the report's recommendation, but was voted out of office in the 2010 General Election.
He said: "Nothing's happened in the ensuing 10 years that suggests that if it happened again it would be an any better, more coordinated response." http://news.sky.com/story/mccanns-fell-out-with-police-over-search-for-madeleine-10859915
:
Doesn't really tell us anything we didn't already know.
The shortcomings of Leicestershire Police were discussed at the Chilcot Inquiry and what can one possibly say about the insensitivity of keeping anyone, let alone grieving and anxious parents, hanging around in a police station for hours for no good reason as was done in Portugal.
In my opinion you have highlighted the wrong part of that item. It is history and its only use now is as a convenient excuse for a plethora of pejorative McCann comment ... watch this space!
What isn't history; what is really important; what is an issue that needs to be addressed if for nothing else than to spare people involved in a future missing child abroad case the vile treatment suffered by the McCanns, is the implementation of measures highlighted by Madeleine's case.
quote The report led to Scotland Yard launching a review and later its own investigation in 2011.
It recommended the setting up of a UK national centre for missing children to better coordinate the response when British children go missing abroad. That has never happened.
Mr Johnson supported the report's recommendation, but was voted out of office in the 2010 General Election.
He said: "Nothing's happened in the ensuing 10 years that suggests that if it happened again it would be an any better, more coordinated response."
I think it should also be noted that the McCanns really did not receive anything like the alleged unprecedented special attention of myth and propaganda ... they were barely treated in accordance with regard for their human rights ... unless anyone thinks it appropriate in the circumstances to be by their own account ...
"left for long periods without any updates or communication with the investigators.
"They state they were taken to the police station on more than one occasion and then left for hours waiting to speak to someone who never materialised."
I'm sure there will be at least one.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 02, 2017, 12:21:16 PM
Doesn't really tell us anything we didn't already know.
The shortcomings of Leicestershire Police were discussed at the Chilcot Inquiry and what can one possibly say about the insensitivity of keeping anyone, let alone grieving and anxious parents, hanging around in a police station for hours for no good reason as was done in Portugal.
In my opinion you have highlighted the wrong part of that item. It is history and its only use now is as a convenient excuse for a plethora of pejorative McCann comment ... watch this space!
What isn't history; what is really important; what is an issue that needs to be addressed if for nothing else than to spare people involved in a future missing child abroad case the vile treatment suffered by the McCanns, is the implementation of measures highlighted by Madeleine's case.
quote The report led to Scotland Yard launching a review and later its own investigation in 2011.
It recommended the setting up of a UK national centre for missing children to better coordinate the response when British children go missing abroad. That has never happened.
Mr Johnson supported the report's recommendation, but was voted out of office in the 2010 General Election.
He said: "Nothing's happened in the ensuing 10 years that suggests that if it happened again it would be an any better, more coordinated response."
I think it should also be noted that the McCanns really did not receive anything like the alleged unprecedented special attention of myth and propaganda ... they were barely treated in accordance with regard for their human rights ... unless anyone thinks it appropriate in the circumstances to be by their own account ...
"left for long periods without any updates or communication with the investigators.
"They state they were taken to the police station on more than one occasion and then left for hours waiting to speak to someone who never materialised."
I'm sure there will be at least one.
You knew they fell out with LP? That's not something the McCanns have ever said as far as I know.
The report by Jim Gamble didn't lead to OG being set up, Cameron and May decided on that despite May having no interest in it previously.
The McCanns rejected the FLO's sent out by LP. It would have been their job to 'update' them. Instead, beginning on 24th May they met with Encarnacao and Neves, with Angela Morado to translate. At the same time Paiva became their liaison officer.
They met with the PJ directors every seven to ten days, and saw a lot of Paiva, according to Kate's book. If that is "left for long periods without any updates or communication with the investigators" we need to know what it is being compared with.
Kate McCann attended the police station four times. On 10th May she waited to be interviewed but time ran out and she was asked to return the following day. That's the only time she waited but wasn't seen to my knowledge, so hardly "more than one occasion".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2017, 02:07:48 PM
You knew they fell out with LP? That's not something the McCanns have ever said as far as I know.
The report by Jim Gamble didn't lead to OG being set up, Cameron and May decided on that despite May having no interest in it previously.
The McCanns rejected the FLO's sent out by LP. It would have been their job to 'update' them. Instead, beginning on 24th May they met with Encarnacao and Neves, with Angela Morado to translate. At the same time Paiva became their liaison officer.
They met with the PJ directors every seven to ten days, and saw a lot of Paiva, according to Kate's book. If that is "left for long periods without any updates or communication with the investigators" we need to know what it is being compared with.
Kate McCann attended the police station four times. On 10th May she waited to be interviewed but time ran out and she was asked to return the following day. That's the only time she waited but wasn't seen to my knowledge, so hardly "more than one occasion".
Please provide a cite to substantiate "The McCanns rejected the FLO's sent out by LP." Thank you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 02, 2017, 02:55:47 PM
If what Sutton and Brunt say is true, Operation Grange was and is an absolute disgrace.
My ten years of looking for Madeleine: how the McCann case has dominated my life
Martin Brunt, sky news crime correspondent 2 MAY 2017 • 11:14AM
I know so much about the story of Madeleine McCann, the heartbreakingly little girl who vanished into thin air.
In the ten years since she disappeared I’ve spoken to her parents, their friends, the heads of Scotland Yard and the Portuguese police, private investigators, Government ministers and diplomats, witnesses and suspects, the family’s supporters and their trolls.
I’ve been back to Praia da Luz 20 times or more and have struck up friendships. They don’t like why I’m there. I don’t think there’s a word for the look on their faces In the resort where she went missing I’ve chatted for many hours with residents, expats, taxi drivers, waiters and bar owners. A lot of bar owners.
But what do I really know? What do I know about the only thing that matters, what happened to three-year-old Madeleine after her parents left her and her two-year-old twin siblings Sean and Amelie sleeping in their rented holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on a breezy, late Spring night 10 years ago on Wednesday?
The answer, of course, is nothing. There are theories galore and wild speculation, but for all the time and money spent by police, journalists and armchair detectives, nobody has unearthed the slightest proof to explain her fate. For crime reporters, as an unsolved case it stands alone.
There have been two Portuguese police investigations and Scotland Yard has spent more than £11 million since it began its own inquiry in 2011. In six years the British detectives identified 600 ‘potentially significant’ individuals, all of whom have been ruled out. They have one significant line of enquiry which may or may not provide an answer.
And that’s why I’m sitting here in an editing room, more baffled and fascinated by the story than I was 10 years ago, putting the final touches to a TV documentary that hopes to shed some light, at least on what’s happened since.
‘Madeleine.’ That’s all I have to say to colleagues, friends or family who ask me what I’m working on. I don’t even have to say her surname for them to understand what’s keeping me busy. By her first name, she is so well known as the little girl at the heart of an enduring mystery.
I’ve been back to Praia da Luz 20 times or more and have struck up friendships with several people. They greet me warmly enough, but they don’t like why I’m there. I don’t think there’s a word for the look on their faces, a mixture of smile and scowl.
In the absence of facts there’s a vacuum filled by speculation and opinion, more often than not tinged with a lack of sympathy for her parents. That is especially true in Portugal, where I’ve seldom met anyone who cannot get over the hurdle of Kate and Gerry McCann leaving their three asleep while they dined with friends across the holiday complex. Kate McCann has described tomorrow’s anniversary as ‘a horrible marker of time, stolen time’.
Nobody can beat up the parents for leaving the children more than the couple do themselves. Long ago they acknowledged they made a mistake, one they have to wake up to each morning.
Yet, the level of hostility the McCann family continues to attract, mainly on on social media, is dreadful - heaping more misery on their blighted lives. A recent posting on a Facebook page which is devoted to the theory that Madeleine’s body is buried in Praia da Luz carried an apparent photograph of her brother Sean, attributing to him a ‘comment’ in which he criticises his parents.
One of those behind the posting told me he had contacted Sean’s school in a bizarre attempt to enlist its help in a campaign to retrieve Madeleine’s body. I knew Scotland Yard was aware of the activity, but they appeared to have done nothing about it. I was told it was something they did not want to discuss with me.
Two months ago someone posted an apparent photograph of the family having lunch in a restaurant. While they were still eating, the picture was put on Twitter, followed by a map and directions to the restaurant along with many vile comments such as ‘Are the kids with them or are they also home alone?’ And ‘Shame they didn’t choke.’ One poster suggested spitting in their food, another wanted to pour beer over them.
As far as I know, none of the McCanns has ever been physically attacked, but I’ve learned as well as anyone the human impact social media activity can have.
Three years ago Leicestershire police were sent a dossier of the online anti-McCann hostility, which included death threats. After six months they decided to take no action against anyone.
I confronted one of the McCann critics, Brenda Leyland, a woman who had Tweeted many nasty comments. She invited me into her home for a chat, though she didn’t want to be interviewed formally. Four days later she took her own life.
In an interview for our documentary the former Home Secretary Alan Johnson said he couldn’t understand why police refused to investigate the McCann trolls.
The former head of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection centre (CEOP), Jim Gamble, described the thousands of online attacks as “a legacy of bile” that would always be there on the Internet to confront Madeleine’s younger twin brother and sister.
We reveal in the documentary details of a secret report Mr Johnson commissioned from CEOP in 2009 to explore the possibility of Scotland Yard getting involved. It led to the Metropolitan Police reviewing the case in 2011 and then launching their own full investigation two years later.
The document exposes the early failures of the first Portuguese investigation and the chaos added by many British agencies competing to help. They included the Association of Chief Police Officers, the National Policing Improvement Agency, the Serious Organised Crime Agency, the Crown Prosecution Service and others. It led to the Portuguese authorities accusing Britain of acting like “a colonial power.”
In turn, says the leaked report, it lead to growing distrust between the McCanns and both Portuguese and UK police. So much so, that when the McCanns later hired a series of private investigators, the couple refused to share the information that was gathered with either force.
We’ve also spoken to former detective Colin Sutton, who was in the running to head the Scotland Yard investigation before he retired. He says that a senior officer rang and warned him that if he took on the case he would not be able to do everything he wished. He interpreted that as a ban on any formal interview with the McCanns.
Mr Sutton says that if Scotland Yard really did intend to “re-analyse and re-assess everything, accept nothing”, as Det Chief Insp Andy Redwood told BBC Crimewatch in 2013, it should have interviewed the McCanns under caution at the start, if only to rule them out. Mr Sutton says that from the beginning they did accept something, the abduction theory.
The Metropolitan Police has confirmed it didn’t formally interview the McCanns because it was satisfied the couple had been ruled out by the initial Portuguese investigation.
Without that interview, says Mr Sutton, the Scotland Yard inquiry was flawed from the start and so the McCanns have still not had the “proper” investigation Alan Johnson promised them.
The growing distrust between the McCanns and police was so bad that when the McCanns later hired private investigators, they refused to share the information gathered The 10th anniversary has been an excuse for me to contact my fellow hacks who spent many weeks in Praia da Luz in the summer of 2007 to see if they have learned anything more than me.
So far, despite recent headlines about breakthroughs and new leads, they haven’t. Over the years we have all tried very hard to beat each other to exclusives, sometimes going to extraordinary lengths. I remember turning up one January to discover that three of my rivals had spent Christmas in Praia da Luz and shared a lonely festive lunch in the dimly-lit Fortaleza restaurant with the sound of freezing waves crashing on the rocks below.
It was a reminder that Madeleine’s disappearance has played such a big part in our lives and, as long as it remained a mystery, we couldn’t let it go.
There’s talk of a reporters’ reunion, but that would hardly be appropriate. Now, Madeleine’s safe return, wouldn’t that be a cause for celebration for us all? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/ten-years-looking-madeleine-mccann-case-has-dominated-life/
This Colin Sutton bloke sounds like he has an axe to grind. Why didn't he get the job?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 02, 2017, 06:12:46 PM
If that's the case then why is he somewhat vague in his assessment of the situation? Moreover why if he was considered for the job of heading up OG did he not actually get the job? &%+((£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 02, 2017, 06:30:34 PM
Luz is abuzz with media reps today. We passed half a dozen this afternoon.
I talked to the GMB team, and the gist was that the locals are saying nothing.
I have seen part of the look described by Martin Brunt. Anyone toting a video camera on a tripod, or sporting a media-quality camera gets it. Minus the friendship.
8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 02, 2017, 06:34:45 PM
If that's the case then why is he somewhat vague in his assessment of the situation? Moreover why if he was considered for the job of heading up OG did he not actually get the job? &%+((£
Perhaps he had the common sense not to handle the proverbial hot potato. 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 02, 2017, 06:34:57 PM
If that's the case then why is he somewhat vague in his assessment of the situation? Moreover why if he was considered for the job of heading up OG did he not actually get the job? &%+((£
He retired from the Met in Jan 2011. http://www.colinsutton.com/cv.pdf
The review process did not start until May 2011.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 02, 2017, 06:39:10 PM
Maybe his post of 4/1/11 goes part way to explaining it. (at the bottom of the page) http://colinsutton.blogspot.co.uk/2011/
Interesting, he keeps a blog. I skimmed a couple of the entries and they both seemed rather critical of the police generally....I wonder why it's taken him 6 years though to dish the supposed dirt on Op Grange - maybe he was keeping his powder dry for the 10th Anniversary media onslaught.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 02, 2017, 08:20:35 PM
What happened to Madeleine McCann? Six key theories.
(http://i.imgur.com/eG38XPQ.gif?1)
By Martin Evans 2 MAY 2017
Ten years ago, three-year-old Madeleine McCann vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal sparking one of the largest missing persons hunts in history.
The case sparked an unprecedented level of media interest but a decade later there have still been no definitive breakthroughs and her fate remains unknown.
Although rumours, conspiracies and speculation still run rife, there are a handful of more likely theories behind her disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 02, 2017, 09:11:09 PM
How Madeleine McCann's parents refused to share information from their own private investigators after falling out with Portuguese and British police.
(http://i.imgur.com/vXOx0hK.jpg?1)
Kate and Gerry McCann still hope to find her ten years after her disappearance
Leaked report reveals how McCanns' relationship with police hit rock bottom
Document said: The McCanns have had a turbulent relationship with both Portuguese and UK law enforcement. There is a lack of trust between all parties.'
Goncalo Amaral claims she was hidden in British woman's coffin and cremated
By Martin Robinson, Uk Chief Reporter For Mailonline PUBLISHED: 2 May 201
Madeleine McCann's parents fell out with both the Portuguese and British police investigating her disappearance, a leaked report revealed today. Gerry and Kate McCann's relationship with detectives became so poor that they refused to share information dug up by their own private investigators.
A Home Office report ordered by then Labour minister Alan Johnson before the 2010 election shows that the couple's 'turbulent relationship' with police led to a breakdown in trust.
It says that the McCann's felt badly treated by the Portuguese authorities who closed the investigation into Madeleine's 2007 disappearance.
But when the Met Police came in they then fell out with police in Praia de Luz - and later the McCanns too, the report says.
Mr Johnson wanted to find out if the Met should intervene further in the case so the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre investigated.
It was commissioned in late 2009, completed by March 2010 and published in May 2010, MailOnline understands. In May 2011 the Home Office launched the Scotland Yard review of the case. The Met's investigation has cost £11million so far.
The report, seen by Sky News' Martin Brunt, said: 'It is clear that from the beginning the McCanns felt there was a lack of clarity and communication on the part of the Portuguese police.
'Despite the involvement of British consular staff, they were, by their own accounts, left for long periods without any updates or communication with the investigators.
'They state they were taken to the police station on more than one occasion and then left for hours waiting to speak to someone who never materialised.
'They describe this situation as inhumane, with no real consideration for their emotional and physical wellbeing.'
The report also reveals tensions between the Portuguese and British police, with the Met accused of acting 'like a colonial power'.
The report says: 'Clearly, the McCanns have had a turbulent relationship with both Portuguese and UK law enforcement. They now openly acknowledge that there is a distinct lack of trust between all parties.'
The police in Britain and Portugal say they are working together to find Madeleine, who vanished on May 3 2007.
Yesterday it emerged the former Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral has claimed Madeleine's body was cremated in a TV interview that will add to her parents' anguish.
The detective, one of the leading investigators early in the case, made the wild statement hours after her parents vowed to take him back to court over other claims.
Amaral made his latest statement on a TV documentary to be aired on the 10th anniversary of her disappearance from the Praia da Luz resort in Portugal.
The latest news leaked by who knows, is suggesting a woman was involved in the 'abduction' of young Madeleine.
One has to wonder what her role was. lookout? perpetrator? childless woman desperate for a child of her own? Did she want to care for young Maddie herself?
Hadn't we already decided the woman in purple was JT, as identified by Jez Wilkins?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 02, 2017, 09:57:47 PM
Surely this can't be the key lead, a woman in purple spotted near 5a, when we already know JT was there on the night?
The one thing I didn't think about before when we discussed this was the route JM drove to the Baptista & back home again. Was Rua Dr. Francisco Gentil Martins a one-way street back in May 2007?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 02, 2017, 11:32:18 PM
That is the same cite you provided the last time I asked for it ... but since you didn't respond to it you appear either not to have seen it or to have ignored it http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8140.msg401151#msg401151
Please note there is nothing untoward in Kate and Gerry McCann releasing the FLO.
It is wrong of you to keep posting as if it is.
If you had read further into the cite you provided you might have ascertained that the limitations imposed on the FLO by Portuguese secrecy laws impeded their function. A scenario which was obviously apparent to all concerned.
Deploying Family Liaison Officers (FLO) Abroad, pages 28 and 29 http://library.college.police.uk/docs/npia/Strategic-debrief-operation-task-2009.pdf
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 02, 2017, 11:44:07 PM
In an interview with Expresso newspaper, the deputy director of the Judiciary Police, Pedro do Carmo, argues that no police in the world could guarantee results different from those obtained so far in Portugal in the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
"We had never had and did not have a similar case again"
By Hugo Franco I's a ten year old mystery that still divides the public opinion and intrigues the Portuguese and English authorities that investigate the case. What happened to Madeleine Beth McCann, the 4-year-old English girl who disappeared from the Ocean Club apartment in Praia da luz (Lagos) on the night of May 3, 2007 - 10 years ago the next Wednesday? The Judiciary Police (PJ) has some suspicions and a certainty: it was not the parents, Gerry and Kate McCann, who harmed to the child born in Leicester.
In September 2007, the McCanns were constituted as arguidos by the the Portuguese Justice but in the following year the case was closed for lack of evidence. It was reopened by the PJ in 2013 and continues to be investigated simultaneously with Scotland Yard. To this day, however, despite hundreds of leads and sightings of Maddie, no one was charged or convicted and the girl, who would have been 14 years old, has never been found.
Until the process was archived in 2008, there were three lines of investigation by the Judiciary Police on the case. Hypothesis 1: the parents accidentally killed their daughter and then concealed the body. Hypothesis 2: Maddie was abducted by a group linked to the trafficking of minors and sold for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Hypothesis 3: The child was killed following an abduction that went wrong.
Did the reopening of the case in 2013 open up more investigative lines than the three that were followed at that time? I cannot speak about the investigation. What I can say is that the PJ remains convinced that there are elements that can still be worked and that can lead to some results. If it is not possible to achieve this result, at least we want to get some answers to the many questions that the case generates. Ultimately, to get to a point where the PJ concludes that there is nothing more that can be done to answer those questions.
Did Scotland Yard's entry into action in the case back in 2011 delivered results?
Since they've also decided to open an investigation, the contacts between the PJ and Metropolitan Police have been regular. There has been a constant exchange of information, which has been positive. This exchange of information remains. It can even be said that the relationship between the two police forces is of great proximity and great collaboration. The reconstruction of the night of May 3, 2007, as the PJ investigators initially intended, with the presence of the McCanns and their English friends at the scene (that never happened due to the group's lack of willingness to return to Praia da Luz) would it have been essential to better understand what happened to the English girl?
I do not want to talk about what happened up to 2008. This has been sufficiently debated at its appropriate place. Any idea how many people were heard in total in this case?
No. But certainly several hundred people. Ten years on after the events at Praia da Luz, why do you think the case is still so much debated?
First because there was a deliberate and legitimate effort on the part of the child's parents in keeping the issue on the agenda of the media. But there are also other elements, such as the circumstances of the disappearance. Ten years later we still do not know what happened, which makes it possible to say, at least in relation to Portugal, that this is a unique case. We had never had one, and we did not have a similar case again. There were other cases of disappearances of children where it was not possible to bring the perpetrators to justice. But in those cases we either caught someone or it was possible for the police to understand what had happened. In this case we are not yet in a position to say what is behind the disappearance. This makes it a unique case. And maybe an extremely rare case worldwide. Do you hope to know the truth about what happened on the night of May 3, 2007 in Praia da Luz?
Of course that's what motivates us. It is that hope that keeps us working on the investigation.
As you said in a recent interview, the Maddie case is a thorn on the side of the Judiciary Police?
Although I have used this expression into the conversation, it is not the term 'thorn on the side'. It is in the DNA of the Judiciary Police to solve all the crimes that as a duty to investigate. Whenever this does not happen it is something that will not leave us, and can not leave us, satisfied. We are very demanding with our work. In this case, we are not satisfied and remain committed to resolve the case. Is the PJ still learning from this case ten years on?
We like to learn from every case and we also want to learn from this one. But only after we know what has happened will we be able to draw conclusions from it: understand what we have done well and less well. And we have not yet reached that point. We want to learn lessons from it in its due time.
The English media again insinuates that Portugal continues to be a country that cannot solve a case of this dimension. But the British police have not done better. Can the English public opinion change since Scotland Yard has not been successful, either?
We are not insensitive to others' opinions but our responsibility and commitment is with our fellow citizens. The Portuguese have every reason to be proud and trust their Judiciary Police, which proves on a daily basis its capacity, effectiveness and competence. Difficult cases exist in all countries. The results sometimes take time to arrive and this is also true for all countries. Our expectation is that there is a capacity for everyone to understand that this is so. No police anywhere in the world could guarantee different results. So would a case like this one have the same results today anywhere else in the world?
I would not say it would have the same results. I would say is that in a case like this one there would be no guarantee of having different results anywhere else in the world. No police in any part of the world could guarantee different results, up to this moment, from those the Judiciary has achieved.
Would the PJ have done something different today in this investigation?
That is a conclusion that we can only reach after the moment we know what has happened or have reached a point where it is not possible to do anything more to clarify the case. And we have not yet reached that point. Do you think it was a mistake to have the McCann couple constituted as arguidos in September 2007?
Obviously, I will not answer that question. But what I can say, just as I did back in 2011 and 2013, is that Maddie's parents are not suspects. That statement remains: the parents are not suspects. Period.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 02, 2017, 11:57:34 PM
"The parents are not suspects. Period". I have just subjected this statement to some serious analysis and here are my findings:
Note Pedro de Carmo uses the expression "the parents" and not "the McCanns" - this impersonal way of addressing them indicates a lack of candour, and indicates his less than truthful demeanour. He then goes on to use the word "suspects" which is clearly quite suspect in itself. He then cuts off any further discussion by using the blunt riposte "Period" which could be a Freudian reference to menstruation = blood, blood = murder. It's clear following my analysis that de Carmo means "The parents ARE suspects".
I've just paid $100 to do the statement analysis course so I'm now an authority on the subject.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 03, 2017, 12:07:39 AM
"The parents are not suspects. Period". I have just subjected this statement to some serious analysis and here are my findings:
Note Pedro de Carmo uses the expression "the parents" and not "the McCanns" - this impersonal way of addressing them indicates a lack of candour, and indicates his less than truthful demeanour. He then goes on to use the word "suspects" which is clearly quite suspect in itself. He then cuts off any further discussion by using the blunt riposte "Period" which could be a Freudian reference to menstruation = blood, blood = murder. It's clear following my analysis that de Carmo means "The parents ARE suspects".
I've just paid $100 to do the statement analysis course so I'm now an authority on the subject.
He also stated, "Ten years later we still do not know what happened..." so any claim as to culpability or non culpability is worthless. The police don't know what happened to Madeleine, they don't even know if a crime was committed, bottom line is they are simply pissing in the dark!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 03, 2017, 12:10:00 AM
He also stated, "Ten years later we still do not know what happened..." so any claim as to culpability or non culpability is worthless. The police don't know what happened to Madeleine, they don't even know if a crime was committed, bottom line is they are simply pissing in the dark!
But one thing he is sure about it seems - the parents dint dunnit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 03, 2017, 12:12:13 AM
But one thing he is sure about it seems - the parents dint dunnit.
As Stephen constantly points out, how can any police officer state the parents "didn't dun it" when they don't even know what they were supposed to have dun? The whole thing is preposterous. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 03, 2017, 12:17:09 AM
"The parents are not suspects. Period". I have just subjected this statement to some serious analysis and here are my findings:
Note Pedro de Carmo uses the expression "the parents" and not "the McCanns" - this impersonal way of addressing them indicates a lack of candour, and indicates his less than truthful demeanour. He then goes on to use the word "suspects" which is clearly quite suspect in itself. He then cuts off any further discussion by using the blunt riposte "Period" which could be a Freudian reference to menstruation = blood, blood = murder. It's clear following my analysis that de Carmo means "The parents ARE suspects".
I've just paid $100 to do the statement analysis course so I'm now an authority on the subject.
We hereby award you an honorary PHD in Statement Analysis (that's a Peter Hyatt Degree for the uninitiated.)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2017, 01:53:32 AM
"The parents are not suspects. Period". I have just subjected this statement to some serious analysis and here are my findings:
Note Pedro de Carmo uses the expression "the parents" and not "the McCanns" - this impersonal way of addressing them indicates a lack of candour, and indicates his less than truthful demeanour. He then goes on to use the word "suspects" which is clearly quite suspect in itself. He then cuts off any further discussion by using the blunt riposte "Period" which could be a Freudian reference to menstruation = blood, blood = murder. It's clear following my analysis that de Carmo means "The parents ARE suspects".
I've just paid $100 to do the statement analysis course so I'm now an authority on the subject.
I don't like the way you make fun of Peter Hyatt.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 03, 2017, 07:07:32 AM
Detective refused to head up Madeleine McCann probe because 'Scotland Yard would order him to prove Kate and Gerry were innocent and ignore other leads' Colin Sutton said he was warned by senior friend in the Met about case in 2010 Friend said he would be told 'who to talk to and what to investigate', he claimed 'Narrow focus' would be to prove Kate, Gerry and Tapas Nine innocent, he said Spoke on Sky Documentary based on leaked Home Office report that revealed 'turbulent relationship' between McCanns and police in London and Portugal By James Dunn For Mailonline PUBLISHED: 00:03, 3 May 2017 | UPDATED: 01:01, 3 May 2017
A detective tipped to head up the Madeleine McCann probe was warned he would be ordered to prove she was abducted and ignore other leads.
Colin Sutton said a high-ranking friend in the Met called him and warned him not to lead the case when Scotland Yard announced it would get involved in 2010.
The source warned that he would be tasked with proving her parents Kate and Gerry were innocent and ignoring any alternatives to the abduction theory, he claims.
Speaking to Martin Brunt on Sky News, he said: 'I did receive a call from a very senior met police officer who knew me and said it wouldn’t be a good idea for me to head investigation on the basis that I wouldn’t be happy conducting an investigation being told where I could go and where I couldn’t go, the things I could investigate and the things I couldn’t.
Asked to clarify what he meant, he added: 'The Scotland Yard investigation was going to be very narrowly focused and that focus would be away from any suspicion of wrongdoing on the part of the McCanns or the tapas friends.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4467832/Met-interested-proving-McCann-parents-innocent.html#ixzz4fzcZhQFn Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook Modify message
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2017, 07:33:14 AM
Detective refused to head up Madeleine McCann probe because 'Scotland Yard would order him to prove Kate and Gerry were innocent and ignore other leads' ....
Seems to have paid off if thy can find the woman wearing the purple dress. Arrests are imminent. Wow can we believe it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 03, 2017, 08:41:21 AM
Seems to have paid off if thy can find the woman wearing the purple dress. Arrests are imminent. Wow can we believe it?
It was a 'top'. Mrs Murat was on TV this morning talking about her and the speeding car. What she didn't say is why she never told the PJ about her sighting.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 03, 2017, 09:59:27 AM
It was a 'top'. Mrs Murat was on TV this morning talking about her and the speeding car. What she didn't say is why she never told the PJ about her sighting.
Did she say she never told them?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2017, 10:10:23 AM
It was a 'top'. Mrs Murat was on TV this morning talking about her and the speeding car. What she didn't say is why she never told the PJ about her sighting.
Do you think this is the same woman that Jez Wilkins saw?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 03, 2017, 11:18:34 AM
Do you think this is the same woman that Jez Wilkins saw?
Absolutely - which somewhat pushes Jenny M's time of returning home from the Baptista to well past 8pm if it was JT they both saw. 2 questions - which car was JM driving as RM was using the VW Transporter? And was Rua Dr. Francisco Gentil Martins a one-way street in May 2007?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 03, 2017, 11:33:40 AM
It was a 'top'. Mrs Murat was on TV this morning talking about her and the speeding car. What she didn't say is why she never told the PJ about her sighting.
“The next morning we heard that a little girl had gone missing and I later told police about the woman I’d seen right outside" - Mrs Murat in today's Sun. So either she's lying / senile or the police didn't pay any appear to pay attention to what she had to tell them, nor recorded it in her statement.
Which is most likely do we think?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2017, 12:56:00 PM
Absolutely - which somewhat pushes Jenny M's time of returning home from the Baptista to well past 8pm if it was JT they both saw. 2 questions - which car was JM driving as RM was using the VW Transporter? And was Rua Dr. Francisco Gentil Martins a one-way street in May 2007?
But doesn't Jez somehow link that woman to Jane Tanner? Well maybe she looked like Jane Tanner. Or was it just that Jane had changed her top that Jez didn't see Jane go by?
Jane Tanner did go to the Tapas on her own so it is possible Jez saw Jane outside her apartment and the woman Jennifer Murat saw was someone else altogether?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 03, 2017, 12:58:16 PM
There were so many women there, all dressed in purple, that it was impossible to distinguish one from another 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2017, 01:06:11 PM
I don't think anyone is actually accusing Jane Tanner of watching the appartment and abducting Madeleine, are they?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2017, 01:10:51 PM
There were so many women there, all dressed in purple, that it was impossible to distinguish one from another 8)--))
Does Jez mention this woman in purple in an earlier statement? By the time he did his rogatory had he learned what Jane was wearing and what she was saying?
Could it be another case like the Smiths saying Smithman looks like Gerry and hence the lady in purple looks like Jane.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 03, 2017, 01:12:26 PM
But doesn't Jez somehow link that woman to Jane Tanner? Well maybe she looked like Jane Tanner. Or was it just that Jane had changed her top that Jez didn't see Jane go by?
Jane Tanner did go to the Tapas on her own so it is possible Jez saw Jane outside her apartment and the woman Jennifer Murat saw was someone else altogether?
IMO JT had put a fleece on sometime between leaving her apartment & returning for her 9.15p.m check so her purple top would have been covered. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm
*snipped* Reply “Yeah. Erm, I’m just trying to, well I’ve walked out of the, walked out of the, erm, the Tap, you know, walked sort of into the reception of the Tapas Bar and obviously walked up the road. I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably came down to about here, but then I’d got flip-flops on and cropped trousers, because I’d only got, I didn’t take jeans, I know I didn’t take jeans on holiday, and then.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on May 03, 2017, 01:29:20 PM
It was a 'top'. Mrs Murat was on TV this morning talking about her and the speeding car. What she didn't say is why she never told the PJ about her sighting.
Do you remember which programme?
Can you remember what she said about the speeding car? I am trying to use this as a timing device, so the more I know about the incident the better.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 03, 2017, 02:08:41 PM
Can you remember what she said about the speeding car? I am trying to use this as a timing device, so the more I know about the incident the better.
I think it was BBC Breakfast. She said the car sped the wrong way up a one-way street. It was small, typical of a hire car. She saw the driver clearly and he looked British.
Do you have any thoughts on which one-way street?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 03, 2017, 03:46:41 PM
At last! The 'they' who took her?
WHO WERE THEY? Mystery couple ‘seen clambering over wall and fence directly behind apartment where Madeleine McCann was sleeping on night she vanished’ Brit police probed key witnesses about the information By Charles Yates and Sam Christie 3rd May 2017, 2:02 pm Updated: 3rd May 2017, 3:24 pm
A MYSTERY couple were seen clambering over a wall and fence directly behind the apartment where Madeleine McCann was sleeping just moments before she went missing, it has been claimed.
The news was revealed by British police to key witnesses as they questioned them in 2015 over Maddie’s disappearance.
Paul and Susan Moyes had an apartment above the McCanns and were out on their balcony when Maddie is thought to have gone missing
British holidaymakers Paul and Susan Moyes told the Sun Online how officers asked them about a mystery man and woman while questioning them about what they remembered from the night Maddie went missing on May 3, 2007.
Paul, 68, said officers asked them about the potentially explosive information two years ago – after swabbing both he and his wife for their DNA.
The retired accountant said: “The Met police came here about two years ago and both times they came into our house.
“The first time they interviewed us in separate rooms and took our DNA and that visit lasted more than an hour.
“The second visit was about three months later and lasted more than an hour and that was to pursue a lead and to make sure we were convinced on our timeline.
“The lead was that a couple had climbed over the fence and the back garden wall and they asked if that was us. It wasn’t.”
The couple said they had no idea who the mystery couple were but the information was “a few times removed” and had been spoken about in restaurants in the area.
The news comes after the Sun Online revealed how police are currently looking for a mysterious woman in purple seen by one witness hanging outside the apartment in the hours before Maddie went missing.
Paul and Susan, who still have the same apartment in the complex, also revealed to The Sun that despite having a prime view of both the tapas bar where Kate and Gerry McCann were with friends and the apartment where Maddie and her siblings were sleeping, they were never questioned by Goncalo Amaral – the cop who who lead the initial hunt for the three-year-old.
The now retired detective was removed as head of the investigation after criticising British detectives.
In July 2008, Amaral released a book called “The Truth of the Lie” which claims the McCanns faked the abduction.
Paul said: "It was not long afterwards (Maddie went missing) that the Portuguese police came into the apartment with a sniffer dog. They went round the apartment and we were not asked too many questions.
"They asked to see our passports and my thoughts at the time was that this was purely for elimination purposes."
The couple still regularly holiday in Praia du Luz, though they are currently selling their 200,000-plus Euros apartment.
The pair purchased a villa in the resort in 2014.
Mr Moyes described Praia du Luz as idyllic and safe and his wife added: “It is paradise.” https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3429641/mystery-couple-seen-clambering-over-wall-and-fence-directly-behind-apartment-where-madeleine-mccann-was-sleeping-on-night-she-vanished/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2017, 06:22:52 PM
Where is the Moyes' statement when you need it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 03, 2017, 06:32:34 PM
EXCLUSIVE: Who was the woman outside Maddie's flat?
A WOMAN was seen acting suspiciously outside Kate and Gerry McCann’s apartment just an hour before their daughter Madeleine was abducted
.
2017 the more things alter the more they stay the same. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/798676/Madeleine-McCann-latest-Maddie-mystery-woman-hunt-prime-suspect Hunt for Madeleine McCann mystery woman
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2017, 06:36:06 PM
I've not seen a report of that article before now so it is news to me. I don't think Mr and Mrs Moyes were interviewed by the Policia Judiciaria. Their statements must have been made when they returned home.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 03, 2017, 06:56:14 PM
I've not seen a report of that article before now so it is news to me. I don't think Mr and Mrs Moyes were interviewed by the Policia Judiciaria. Their statements must have been made when they returned home.
No they weren't despite being in such close proximity to the missing child's apartment on the night she went missing.... &%+((£
"the Portuguese police came into the apartment with a sniffer dog. They went round the apartment and we were not asked too many questions.
"They asked to see our passports and my thoughts at the time was that this was purely for elimination purposes"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 03, 2017, 10:48:49 PM
'THE F***ING B******S HAVE TAKEN HER' Kate McCann’s tormented screams on night Madeleine went missing revealed by witnesses who told how Gerry sobbed on pals shoulder and frantic friends launched search Key witnesses reveal desperate moments after Maddie vanished
By Charles Yates and Sam Christie 3rd May 2017, 5:33 pm Updated: 3rd May 2017, 10:10 pm
KATE McCann screamed: “the f***ing b******s have taken her” in the frantic moments after daughter Madeleine went missing, a key witness has revealed.
The distraught mother was heard screaming out in anguish as husband Gerry sobbed on a friend’s shoulder while a frantic search for their missing three-year-old daughter took place.
Key witnesses told how they saw Kate McCann screaming in anguish after Maddie went missing Brit couple Paul and Susan Moyes’ apartment was one floor directly above where the McCanns were staying
Brit couple Paul and Susan Moyes’ apartment was one floor directly above where the McCanns were staying Apartment 5a, pictured today, was where Maddie was sleeping on the night she disappeared
Speaking to the Sun Online a decade after the chilling crime which gripped the world, holidaymakers Paul and Susan Moyes, who had an apartment just two floors directly above where the McCanns were staying, recounted how the couple were in hysterics.
Paul, 68, said: “The McCanns were in bits, he was crying on the shoulder of a friend.
“She was screaming ‘the f***ing b******s have taken her’. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3428088/kate-mccann-scream-night-madeleine-went-missing/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 04, 2017, 06:49:52 AM
As the McCanns mark 10 agonising years without Madeleine, how can Portuguese police keep being so vile?
Kate and gerry have had to rebuild their family as they suffer the agony of not knowing where their oldest child is, but now one ex-cop is airing yet more ludicrous claims
Alison Phillips BYALISON PHILLIPS 22:01, 2 MAY 2017UPDATED09:32, 3 MAY 2017
Another agonising anniversary for the McCann family. Another opportunity for slug-like Portuguese ex-cop Goncalo Amaral to crawl out of his hole and slither around in their pain.
Out of all the horrific days Kate and Gerry McCann have had to endure in the decade since their daughter went missing, this must surely be one of the toughest.
Despite their determination in an interview this weekend that they will one day be reunited with Maddie , it seems less likely than ever.
This 10th anniversary will serve as a reminder not only of how much time has passed since they last held their daughter in their arms, but also of how they’ve rebuilt family life around the chasm of missing Maddie.
Something they must have never, ever wanted to do. But which they had to for the sake of their now 12-year-old twins.
Having lost one child, they had to do everything possible to safeguard the lives of those who remained.
Yet as the family mark 10 agonising years without Maddie today, how can some Portuguese cops still be so cruel?
Missing Madeleine McCann's parents 'fell out with police so badly they refused to share info from own investigation'
While they mourn and remember, Amaral – whose blundering officers fouled up so much of the search – has been airing his latest ludicrous claims about the disappearance.
And in so doing, caused new upset and anxiety for Maddie’s siblings.
He was on Portuguese television again pointing the finger at Maddie’s parents – the twins’ parents – and claiming she may have been hidden in a Praia de Luz church before being cremated .
Why the Portuguese broadcasters give him air time is a total mystery. Presumably it suits some to pump out such lies to deflect from their police failings.
Meanwhile another former Portuguese cop, Carlos Anjos, who probably knows less about the details of the case than my cat, has laid into the £11million Scotland Yard investigation as a ‘waste of money’.
Mr Anjos, a former inspector, is entitled to his opinion. Except that he is the former head of the Portuguese police union so his chief concern isn’t Maddie - it’s defending his officers’ botched investigation.
He and Amaral could do everyone a favour on this anniversary by keeping their opinions strictly to themselves.
Because these men know every smear or suggestion they make will be lapped up and repeated by the sickos and saddos of social media whose conspiracy theories have continued relentlessly over the past decade.
With children now old enough to Google their sister’s disappearance, it must be an endless battle for Kate and Gerry to keep them safe from the slurs that are constantly lobbed at their family on social media.
As Kate said this weekend: “We’ve tried to educate them a little bit as well.
“Because why would somebody write that? Why would somebody add to someone’s upset?”
A question it is impossible for right-minded people to answer.
For whatever Amaral and his band of [ censored word ]s may think about Gerry and Kate, surely anyone would have compassion for two children who have grown up against a backdrop of sadness and who have lost not just their sister but also so much of the joy of normal family life.
Amaral claims his family was also damaged by the investigation and he lost his marriage and son because of it. Rubbish.
I imagine he lost his marriage and son because they were able to see exactly what kind of a man he is.
A man who, incompetent at trying to find one missing little girl, appears intent on inflicting pain on her surviving brother and sister. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mccanns-mark-10-agonising-years-10343580
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on May 04, 2017, 07:41:34 AM
'THE F***ING B******S HAVE TAKEN HER' Kate McCann’s tormented screams on night Madeleine went missing revealed by witnesses who told how Gerry sobbed on pals shoulder and frantic friends launched search Key witnesses reveal desperate moments after Maddie vanished
By Charles Yates and Sam Christie 3rd May 2017, 5:33 pm Updated: 3rd May 2017, 10:10 pm
KATE McCann screamed: “the f***ing b******s have taken her” in the frantic moments after daughter Madeleine went missing, a key witness has revealed.
The distraught mother was heard screaming out in anguish as husband Gerry sobbed on a friend’s shoulder while a frantic search for their missing three-year-old daughter took place.
Key witnesses told how they saw Kate McCann screaming in anguish after Maddie went missing Brit couple Paul and Susan Moyes’ apartment was one floor directly above where the McCanns were staying
Brit couple Paul and Susan Moyes’ apartment was one floor directly above where the McCanns were staying Apartment 5a, pictured today, was where Maddie was sleeping on the night she disappeared
Speaking to the Sun Online a decade after the chilling crime which gripped the world, holidaymakers Paul and Susan Moyes, who had an apartment just two floors directly above where the McCanns were staying, recounted how the couple were in hysterics.
Paul, 68, said: “The McCanns were in bits, he was crying on the shoulder of a friend.
“She was screaming ‘the f***ing b******s have taken her’. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3428088/kate-mccann-scream-night-madeleine-went-missing/
Interesting turn of phrase.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2017, 07:46:42 AM
I very much doubt that Kate said that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 04, 2017, 07:59:06 AM
Just another anonymous statement from the stable of anonymous waiters, cooks, cleaners, advogados daily seeing things passing villas, did someone actually see Gerry at the tip with a fridge?, witnesses seeing people crawling about in the dark intent on coffin invasion no doubt having come straight from the apartment Madeleine's parents had been witnessed frequenting but the address of which hadn't been noticed and Amaral couldn't locate ... ... ...
Silvia Batista who commented on Kate's request for a priest etc as recorded in the PJ files ... kept schtum on that one as did everyone else ... even those bemused by the "praying Arab" scenario.
So all in all I would class it as yet another downright lie.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 04, 2017, 09:23:58 AM
Just another anonymous statement from the stable of anonymous waiters, cooks, cleaners, advogados daily seeing things passing villas, did someone actually see Gerry at the tip with a fridge?, witnesses seeing people crawling about in the dark intent on coffin invasion no doubt having come straight from the apartment Madeleine's parents had been witnessed frequenting but the address of which hadn't been noticed and Amaral couldn't locate ... ... ...
Silvia Batista the who commented on Kate's request for a priest etc as recorded in the PJ files ... kept schtum on that one as did everyone else ... even those bemused by the "praying Arab" scenario.
So all in all I would class it as yet another downright lie.
Actually it's not an anonymous statement - it is attributed to the Moyes (female). I have no opinion on whether Kate said "f..king b........s have taken her" or not - it wouldn't surprise me or worry me in anyway if she did, it only serves to give more ammunition to the little army of hate mongers who will no doubt find plenty of satirical mirth to be had at the expense of a woman at her most desperate moment.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2017, 09:33:06 AM
Just another anonymous statement from the stable of anonymous waiters, cooks, cleaners, advogados daily seeing things passing villas, did someone actually see Gerry at the tip with a fridge?, witnesses seeing people crawling about in the dark intent on coffin invasion no doubt having come straight from the apartment Madeleine's parents had been witnessed frequenting but the address of which hadn't been noticed and Amaral couldn't locate ... ... ...
Silvia Batista the who commented on Kate's request for a priest etc as recorded in the PJ files ... kept schtum on that one as did everyone else ... even those bemused by the "praying Arab" scenario.
So all in all I would class it as yet another downright lie.
Yep. A downright lie. How utterly pathetic
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2017, 09:34:32 AM
Actually it's not an anonymous statement - it is attributed to the Moyes (female). I have no opinion on whether Kate said "f....ing b......s have taken her" or not - it wouldn't surprise me or worry me in anyway if she did, it only serves to give more ammunition to the little army of hate mongers who will no doubt find plenty of satirical mirth to be had at the expense of a woman at her most desperate moment.
That as well.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 04, 2017, 09:47:21 AM
It's not a new idea though, apart from the cursing, is it?
Reply "And then, I mean, and then as we were walking up, err and there's you know the exchange of conversation was you know, was they've taken her.' http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 04, 2017, 02:22:11 PM
What happened to Madeleine McCann? Five possible scenarios explained.
With interest in the case showing no signs of abating, the chances are that unless Madeleine is found, the theories will keep proliferating.
In the ten years since Madeleine McCann went missing from an apartment in the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, Portugal, there have been a near-infinite number of theories as to what happened to her.
Having started reviewing the case in 2011, Scotland Yard are still investigating.
With interest in the case showing no signs of abating, the chances are that unless Madeleine is found, the theories will keep proliferating.
For now, though, the most commonly discussed scenarios seem to be:
The parents were involved
On September 7 2007, four months after Madeleine’s disappearance, Kate and Gerry McCann were made “arguidos”, formal suspects in the case.
The theory seems to have been that the two doctors killed their daughter by accident, possibly by giving her too much sedative in the hope that she would sleep while they went out to dine with friends at a tapas restaurant 50 yards away.
The McCanns are then supposed to have hidden the body, faked Madeleine’s abduction, and then, weeks later, with the search for the three-year-old in full cry, put the corpse in the boot of a hire car and hid it in some super-secret location.
The Portugese police appear to have been bolstered in the belief that this – or something like it – could be possible by the reactions of two sniffer dogs brought to the Algarve by British officers in July 2007.
The two dogs, one trained to detect human blood, the other the smell of dead bodies, were taken to numerous locations, but only gave alerts inside the McCanns’ holiday apartment. The cadaver dog later gave another alert signal while inside the Renault Scenic hire car that the McCanns had rented 24 days after their daughter went missing.
Analysis of hair and other fibres taken from the hire car and apartment were analysed by the UK’s Forensic Science Service. Four days after the FSS analysis was complete, the McCanns were made arguidos, with Portugese officials citing DNA evidence as one of the grounds for suspicion.
It later transpired, however, that neither the sniffer dog or DNA evidence were as watertight as some observers assumed.
Sniffer dog evidence has been the subject of research questioning its reliability, and in one US court case, a judge agreed with analysis of three cadaver dogs’ performances which found they were wrong 78 per cent, 71 per cent and 62 per cent of the time.
The DNA evidence, meanwhile, came with a major ‘health warning’ from the FSS.
An email from John Lowe, of the FSS team, stated that only 15 out of a set of 19 components of Madeleine’s DNA profile had been found in the hire car.
Mr Lowe cautioned: “The individual components in Madeleine's profile are not unique to her; it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of Madeleine's profile are also present within the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included.
“It's important to stress that 50 per cent of Madeleine's profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible, in a mixture of more than two people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. ... Therefore, we cannot answer the question: Is the match genuine, or is it a chance match."
Kate and Gerry McCann had their formal arguido status removed in July 2008. They have always maintained their innocence. They have dismissed as “ludicrous” theories about how they might have used the hire car to dispose of the body in a location that Algarve locals didn’t know about.
They are also continuing their legal action against Goncalo Amaral, the former lead Portugese investigator in the case, who in 2008 wrote a book claiming they had faked their daughter’s abduction after her accidental death.
Burglary gone wrong
According to this theory, thieves broke into the apartment, then killed or abducted Madeleine when she woke up and saw what they were doing.
It is understood that the Scotland Yard review team has not yet ruled out such a scenario – even though you might expect it to involve thieves acting in panic, making hurried mistakes and leaving a trail of obvious clues in their wake.
At one time, though, the Met detectives had identified four Praia da Luz locals who seemed as if they might have fitted the bill. Their backgrounds, mobile phone contact and locations around the time of Madeleine’s disappearance all seemed to fit the pattern of men involved in a burglary that had gone wrong.
The men were questioned in 2014 – but Scotland Yard has now announced there was no evidence to implicate any of them and abandoned the case against all four.
Paulo Ribeiro, one of the men, has also told BBC Panorama how amazed he had been when approached by British detectives.
"I thought it was incredible," he said. "I knew of nothing when the police arrived at my door with a piece of paper that had a drawing on it, saying it bore a likeness to me and that someone had said I was involved and that I looked like the person who had kidnapped Maddie.”
He and the other three men, were also backed by Pedro do Carmo, deputy director of the Policia Judiciaria, who told Panorama he had never considered them to be suspects.
He said: "I can only say that we questioned those people on request of the Metropolitan Police and only based on the request of the Metropolitan Police.
"We never questioned those people. We never saw or looked at those people as suspects of the crime."
And, despite British detectives still considering the idea of a burglary gone wrong to be plausible, Carlos Anjos, the former head of the Policia Judiciaria officers' union, told Panorama: "This burglary theory is absurd. Not even a wallet disappeared, no television disappeared, nothing else disappeared. A child disappeared."
Abducted or killed by a local paedophile
In 2009 there were reports that some of those investigating Madeleine’s disappearance believed the Algarve had been “awash with paedophiles” when she went missing.
One source was quoted as saying: “There are 38 known sex offenders in the Algarve. The area is a magnet for paedophiles. There have been seven sexual assaults involving the children of tourists in the Algarve in the last four years.
“They all have the same modus operandi as Madeleine's disappearance - that is, a break-in at a holiday apartment and children molested.
“Five happened before Madeleine's abduction, and two afterwards. One took place a month before she vanished.”
Could a local serial paedophile have escalated his activities to the point where instead of leaving a molested foreign child in situ, they progressed to abduction or killing?
family:
"He was a private man, not the type to suddenly befriend a couple who had intense media attention. It really jarred with me, left me feeling very uneasy. Nobody else would have thought Freud capable of abuse and rape but he did it to me.”
Some investigators, however, have cautioned against the whole idea of the involvement of a local paedophile. They point out that only very rarely do predatory paedophiles take the risk of sneaking or breaking into a building to get at a child.
Abducted by slave traders or paedophile child traffickers
There have been numerous variations of this theory, placing Madeleine in locations from Belgium to Africa.
In 2008, for example, it was reported that police were examining claims that Madeleine was taken on the orders of a Belgium-based paedophile ring that had placed an order for a “young girl”.
The highly organised gang, it was said, may even have taken a photograph of Madeleine beforehand so the Belgian paedophiles could confirm she fitted their requirements and give the go-ahead for the abduction.
Other theories have suggested Madeleine could have been taken to Lagos marina, five miles from Praia da Luz, and put on a boat bound for Morocco.
There have been reports of girls fitting Madeleine’s description being seen in Morocco around the time of her disappearance, and in the first few weeks of the hunt for their daughter, the McCanns did visit the north African country to appeal for information.
Morocco also fits into theories that Madeleine was sold into slavery: it is on the trafficking route to the Saharan desert country of Mauritania.
Mauritania was the last country in the world to abolish slavery, outlawing the practice only in 1981. There are rumours that significant numbers of people remain in slavery in the country to this day, and that gangs operating out of Mauritania sell children to rich Middle Eastern families.
Colin Sutton, an ex-Scotland Yard detective, told the Mirror last month: “The Mauritania line is certainly a possibility and needs to be looked at.
“If someone wanted to get a three-year-old child into Africa it’s the obvious route. The infrastructure and contacts for people smuggling are clearly there.”
Madeleine woke up, wandered from the apartment, and was involved in an accident
If Madeleine had woken up and gone to see her parents at the tapas restaurant, it has been claimed, there were a number of potentially fatal accidents that could have befallen her.
If she lost her way in the dark and took a wrong turn, a walk of less than 200 yards would have taken her to some roadworks.
It has been reported that workers repairing drains had dug a 6ft-deep, 4ft-wide trench. Had she fallen in, causing her to die or be knocked unconscious? And had she then not been noticed when the trench was filled in the next morning?
This theory has been disputed by the engineer and the foreman in charge of the works, who have both insisted the trench was checked by them and the police.
Other accident theories have posited a drink driver who runs over Madeleine, panics, and hides the body. A local might know hiding places where a body could lie undiscovered for ten years: the surrounding countryside is sparsely populated with plenty of scrubland and many old, long-abandoned wells.
Such scenarios, though, would require unusual behaviour from a little girl going in search of her parents.
Kate McCann has pointed out that Madeleine, coming up to her fourth birthday, would have had to have been able to open the curtains, slide open the patio door and then shut both of them behind her. Then she would have had to open and shut the garden gate leading to the road.
During her holiday, she had got to know the way that took her to the pool complex where her parents were eating. So why would this little girl have continued down the dark, lonely path leading to the roadworks, instead of turning towards the reassuring lights and noise coming from where she knew she could find her mum and dad?
She lived and worked in NZ for some years, and that is just how we would express ourselves around here.
Its terminology used frequently by Irish people and as both parents were Irish...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 06, 2017, 11:19:56 AM
Why do some commentators think they know the motivations of those who doubt the McCann abduction story? Perhaps it's just their way of enabling themselves to dismiss the points those who have doubts raise?
From Nick Cave to Kate McCann, it’s time we judged parents a little less
Hadley Freeman Saturday 6 May 2017 09.00 BST
Parents of missing children are demonised by a public needing to reassure themselves it could never happen to them
Kate and Gerry McCann give an interview to the BBC to mark the 10th anniversary of Madeleine McCann. Photograph: Getty Images
This is a story about missing children, and what happens to those who are left behind. Last week marked the 10th anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a story told so many times it has taken on the form of a litany: Praia da Luz, the tapas restaurant, the open window. Madeleine vanished, but she is ever-present in the public consciousness, whereas thousands of missing children are just that – wholly missing.
There has been much hand-wringing in the media over this disparity: was it because Kate and Gerry McCann are white and photogenic? Or because Madeleine was blond and cute? Or because she vanished in a country where journalists also take their cute kids on holiday? To which the answers are yes, obviously, but this is to miss the point; the argument should be not that the McCanns deserve less attention, but that other missing children should get more. In an interview last weekend, Kate McCann said she felt “guilty” and “embarrassed” about the £11m spent on the search for her daughter. The only people who should be embarrassed are those who sneer that there should be some kind of cap on the amount of sympathy, or a time limit placed on a parent’s hope. In recent weeks, the tabloids have been eagerly publishing spurious decades-old sightings of Madeleine, seen crying for her mother in the company of “suspicious men”. It is hard to see what any of this is supposed to achieve, beyond torturing the McCanns.
The common take on the McCann coverage is that middle-class newspaper readers related to them and so cared more about the story than, say, that of Ben Needham, the British toddler who vanished in Kos in 1991. And yet in both cases the parents were instantly vilified: Kerry Needham for being working class, Gerry and Kate McCann for being too self-possessed and attractive. The parents of missing children are often demonised by a public that need to reassure themselves that this could never happen to them. Those parents were feckless, foolish, bad – not like us, the good parents. If anything, the relatability of the McCanns made them even more terrifying, and thus more necessary to condemn.
When Nick Cave’s 15-year-old son Arthur died in 2015, after falling off a cliff while on LSD, parts of the media were so keen to blame his father they became self-parodic. Much was made of the singer’s previous drug habit, as though no other parent on the planet had ever taken drugs, while the Times tutted that Cave had “an obsession with death” and watched “super-violent” films with his children. (The paper later removed the article from its website.)
In an extraordinary interview in American GQ, Cave recently said: “I don’t want to give too much oxygen to the matter of responsibility because it raises a point that only someone who knows nothing about parenting, drug-taking or bereavement would suggest.” Even so, he added: “You can find yourself indulging in all sorts of irrational and self-destructive thoughts – self-pity, self-blame – because they form a direct connection to the small but present part of you that just wants to die.”
I have written a lot about missing or dead children: Etan Patz, the six-year-old who vanished in New York in 1979, and whose face haunted American parents in the 80s; JonBenét Ramsey, the six-year-old beauty contestant found dead in her home in 1996; Noah Pozner, the youngest victim of the 2012 Sandy Hook shootings. All very different stories, all connected by a vilification of the parents by a public so terrified of anything like that happening to them. A police officer once described it to me like this: “You know that moment when you lose sight of your child in a shopping mall? Imagine that feeling lasting for 30 years.” But there is no need for anyone to pull an Andrea “as a mother” Leadsom here; anyone can feel that fear, as if your arm has been ripped off your body and your heart pulled out after it.
The cynical take on Madeleine McCann is that she is gone for good: why are we still talking about this? “Her parents need to accept their share of the blame and let her go,” one notoriously bilious columnist wrote. There is a condescension towards parents of missing children and their magical thinking, their desperate hope that the family will one day be reunited. But it’s their critics who are engaging in the worst kind of magical thinking, believing that if they turn bereaved parents into the demonised Other, they will protect their own children. All they are doing, really, is revealing that they know the terrible truth: that this could happen to any of us, and we would never stop looking.
Why do some commentators think they know the motivations of those who doubt the McCann abduction story? Perhaps it's just their way of enabling themselves to dismiss the points those who have doubts raise?
From Nick Cave to Kate McCann, it’s time we judged parents a little less
Hadley Freeman Saturday 6 May 2017 09.00 BST
Parents of missing children are demonised by a public needing to reassure themselves it could never happen to them
Kate and Gerry McCann give an interview to the BBC to mark the 10th anniversary of Madeleine McCann. Photograph: Getty Images
This is a story about missing children, and what happens to those who are left behind. Last week marked the 10th anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a story told so many times it has taken on the form of a litany: Praia da Luz, the tapas restaurant, the open window. Madeleine vanished, but she is ever-present in the public consciousness, whereas thousands of missing children are just that – wholly missing.
There has been much hand-wringing in the media over this disparity: was it because Kate and Gerry McCann are white and photogenic? Or because Madeleine was blond and cute? Or because she vanished in a country where journalists also take their cute kids on holiday? To which the answers are yes, obviously, but this is to miss the point; the argument should be not that the McCanns deserve less attention, but that other missing children should get more. In an interview last weekend, Kate McCann said she felt “guilty” and “embarrassed” about the £11m spent on the search for her daughter. The only people who should be embarrassed are those who sneer that there should be some kind of cap on the amount of sympathy, or a time limit placed on a parent’s hope. In recent weeks, the tabloids have been eagerly publishing spurious decades-old sightings of Madeleine, seen crying for her mother in the company of “suspicious men”. It is hard to see what any of this is supposed to achieve, beyond torturing the McCanns.
The common take on the McCann coverage is that middle-class newspaper readers related to them and so cared more about the story than, say, that of Ben Needham, the British toddler who vanished in Kos in 1991. And yet in both cases the parents were instantly vilified: Kerry Needham for being working class, Gerry and Kate McCann for being too self-possessed and attractive. The parents of missing children are often demonised by a public that need to reassure themselves that this could never happen to them. Those parents were feckless, foolish, bad – not like us, the good parents. If anything, the relatability of the McCanns made them even more terrifying, and thus more necessary to condemn.
When Nick Cave’s 15-year-old son Arthur died in 2015, after falling off a cliff while on LSD, parts of the media were so keen to blame his father they became self-parodic. Much was made of the singer’s previous drug habit, as though no other parent on the planet had ever taken drugs, while the Times tutted that Cave had “an obsession with death” and watched “super-violent” films with his children. (The paper later removed the article from its website.)
In an extraordinary interview in American GQ, Cave recently said: “I don’t want to give too much oxygen to the matter of responsibility because it raises a point that only someone who knows nothing about parenting, drug-taking or bereavement would suggest.” Even so, he added: “You can find yourself indulging in all sorts of irrational and self-destructive thoughts – self-pity, self-blame – because they form a direct connection to the small but present part of you that just wants to die.”
I have written a lot about missing or dead children: Etan Patz, the six-year-old who vanished in New York in 1979, and whose face haunted American parents in the 80s; JonBenét Ramsey, the six-year-old beauty contestant found dead in her home in 1996; Noah Pozner, the youngest victim of the 2012 Sandy Hook shootings. All very different stories, all connected by a vilification of the parents by a public so terrified of anything like that happening to them. A police officer once described it to me like this: “You know that moment when you lose sight of your child in a shopping mall? Imagine that feeling lasting for 30 years.” But there is no need for anyone to pull an Andrea “as a mother” Leadsom here; anyone can feel that fear, as if your arm has been ripped off your body and your heart pulled out after it.
The cynical take on Madeleine McCann is that she is gone for good: why are we still talking about this? “Her parents need to accept their share of the blame and let her go,” one notoriously bilious columnist wrote. There is a condescension towards parents of missing children and their magical thinking, their desperate hope that the family will one day be reunited. But it’s their critics who are engaging in the worst kind of magical thinking, believing that if they turn bereaved parents into the demonised Other, they will protect their own children. All they are doing, really, is revealing that they know the terrible truth: that this could happen to any of us, and we would never stop looking.
"The common take on the McCann coverage is that middle-class newspaper readers related to them and so cared more about the story than, say, that of Ben Needham, the British toddler who vanished in Kos in 1991.
And yet in both cases the parents were instantly vilified: Kerry Needham for being working class, Gerry and Kate McCann for being too self-possessed and attractive.
The parents of missing children are often demonised by a public that need to reassure themselves that this could never happen to them. Those parents were feckless, foolish, bad – not like us, the good parents.
If anything, the relatability of the McCanns made them even more terrifying, and thus more necessary to condemn."
The difficulty with attributing motivation to 'doubters' is the myriad of doubts they lay claim to and the malice with which some have promulgated their doubts and the burning need of some to "educate" others with those doubts.
The majority of which are based on false information and innuendo and an esoteric belief system.
From the remove of ten years new audiences are puzzling about the whys and wherefores of those who 'doubt' and who fiercely defend and promote them. Their intention is that their doubts should be publicised and discussed since which the pains taken to promote them on the public domain attest.
How can there possibly be complaint that commentators have actually read their narrative and having found it wanting have commentated on it and have questioned if there is a legitimate basis for it.
A ten year long obsession to vilify the parents of a missing child invites opinion and comment ... and I think that is exactly what is happening.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 06, 2017, 01:32:13 PM
Why do some commentators think they know the motivations of those who doubt the McCann abduction story? Perhaps it's just their way of enabling themselves to dismiss the points those who have doubts raise?
From Nick Cave to Kate McCann, it’s time we judged parents a little less
Hadley Freeman Saturday 6 May 2017 09.00 BST
Parents of missing children are demonised by a public needing to reassure themselves it could never happen to them
Kate and Gerry McCann give an interview to the BBC to mark the 10th anniversary of Madeleine McCann. Photograph: Getty Images
This is a story about missing children, and what happens to those who are left behind. Last week marked the 10th anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a story told so many times it has taken on the form of a litany: Praia da Luz, the tapas restaurant, the open window. Madeleine vanished, but she is ever-present in the public consciousness, whereas thousands of missing children are just that – wholly missing.
There has been much hand-wringing in the media over this disparity: was it because Kate and Gerry McCann are white and photogenic? Or because Madeleine was blond and cute? Or because she vanished in a country where journalists also take their cute kids on holiday? To which the answers are yes, obviously, but this is to miss the point; the argument should be not that the McCanns deserve less attention, but that other missing children should get more. In an interview last weekend, Kate McCann said she felt “guilty” and “embarrassed” about the £11m spent on the search for her daughter. The only people who should be embarrassed are those who sneer that there should be some kind of cap on the amount of sympathy, or a time limit placed on a parent’s hope. In recent weeks, the tabloids have been eagerly publishing spurious decades-old sightings of Madeleine, seen crying for her mother in the company of “suspicious men”. It is hard to see what any of this is supposed to achieve, beyond torturing the McCanns.
The common take on the McCann coverage is that middle-class newspaper readers related to them and so cared more about the story than, say, that of Ben Needham, the British toddler who vanished in Kos in 1991. And yet in both cases the parents were instantly vilified: Kerry Needham for being working class, Gerry and Kate McCann for being too self-possessed and attractive. The parents of missing children are often demonised by a public that need to reassure themselves that this could never happen to them. Those parents were feckless, foolish, bad – not like us, the good parents. If anything, the relatability of the McCanns made them even more terrifying, and thus more necessary to condemn.
When Nick Cave’s 15-year-old son Arthur died in 2015, after falling off a cliff while on LSD, parts of the media were so keen to blame his father they became self-parodic. Much was made of the singer’s previous drug habit, as though no other parent on the planet had ever taken drugs, while the Times tutted that Cave had “an obsession with death” and watched “super-violent” films with his children. (The paper later removed the article from its website.)
In an extraordinary interview in American GQ, Cave recently said: “I don’t want to give too much oxygen to the matter of responsibility because it raises a point that only someone who knows nothing about parenting, drug-taking or bereavement would suggest.” Even so, he added: “You can find yourself indulging in all sorts of irrational and self-destructive thoughts – self-pity, self-blame – because they form a direct connection to the small but present part of you that just wants to die.”
I have written a lot about missing or dead children: Etan Patz, the six-year-old who vanished in New York in 1979, and whose face haunted American parents in the 80s; JonBenét Ramsey, the six-year-old beauty contestant found dead in her home in 1996; Noah Pozner, the youngest victim of the 2012 Sandy Hook shootings. All very different stories, all connected by a vilification of the parents by a public so terrified of anything like that happening to them. A police officer once described it to me like this: “You know that moment when you lose sight of your child in a shopping mall? Imagine that feeling lasting for 30 years.” But there is no need for anyone to pull an Andrea “as a mother” Leadsom here; anyone can feel that fear, as if your arm has been ripped off your body and your heart pulled out after it.
The cynical take on Madeleine McCann is that she is gone for good: why are we still talking about this? “Her parents need to accept their share of the blame and let her go,” one notoriously bilious columnist wrote. There is a condescension towards parents of missing children and their magical thinking, their desperate hope that the family will one day be reunited. But it’s their critics who are engaging in the worst kind of magical thinking, believing that if they turn bereaved parents into the demonised Other, they will protect their own children. All they are doing, really, is revealing that they know the terrible truth: that this could happen to any of us, and we would never stop looking.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 10, 2017, 08:17:20 AM
Missing Madeleine McCann: Inter-force ‘trust, co-operation and understanding’ issues still exist
09 May 2017
Dr Graham Hill: 'Not much further ahead today'
European police forces should create a specialist hub to manage future investigations into child abductions that cross international boundaries to avoid “mistakes” that blighted the Madeleine McCann case being repeated, a leading criminologist argues.
Ten years on from the disappearance of the Leicestershire toddler, the lessons of the failed investigation have not been learned, says a senior British officer who worked on the case in Portugal.
Ex-Detective Chief Superintendent Graham Hill claims the same “lack of trust, co-operation and understanding” continues to exist today between forces either side of The Channel.
Talks on a co-ordinated approach to abduction cases were held after Madeleine went missing but they became stymied in territorial issues and European Union bureaucracy, said Dr Hill, founder and first head of Behaviour Analysis at the National Crime Agency’s Child Exploitation Online Protection centre (CEOP).
Suggesting “we’re not that much further forward,” Dr Hill added: “Now is a good time to say enough is enough; what are we going to learn from this, or are we not going to learn anything?
“Are we going to walk away and say we’ve spent umpteen million in taxpayers’ money and not learnt anything?”
The hunt for Madeleine began on May 3, 2007 when the three-year-old went missing while on a family holiday at Praia da Luz on the Algarve.
She was asleep in an apartment with her twin siblings when it is believed that she was abducted while her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, dined with friends in the same holiday complex.
The couple, now aged 49 and 48, say they will do "whatever it takes, for as long as it takes" to find their missing daughter as they applauded the Metropolitan Police Service for the “real progress” made over the last five years. "There is still hope that we can find Madeleine," Mrs McCann added.
Theorising by “armchair experts” about what might have happened to Madeleine had drowned out debate about how to respond to a similar incident in future, Dr Hill added.
As head of behavioural analysis at CEOP in 2007, he was sent to the Algarve to assist the Portuguese investigation.
He told The Times: “I don’t think they really wanted us there. The lead detectives saw our presence as an insult. It became clear we were just being told little bits of information but we were kept away from what was really happening.” http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=29219
He was one of the behavioural analysts from CEOP sent out to Portugal by the Foreign Office.
Two forensic behavioural analysts from the CEOP Centre have been assisting with this inquiry. They have been made available to the authorities to ensure they have the full range of expertise available for every possible avenue of investigation. https://ceop.police.uk/Media-Centre/Press-releases/2007/Disappearance-of-Madeleine-McCann-Web-Appeal-for-Information/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1gOOkyaPAU
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 10, 2017, 12:34:37 PM
Members are reminded that abusive personal comments aimed at other members are prohibited on this forum. Attack the comments by all means but not the poster.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 11, 2017, 08:05:33 PM
Another uninformed piece. How did he walk into the apartment and introduce himself to the McCanns on the morning of 4th May? I don't think Kay Burley was there. and the small side gate led to 5A, not a 'complex'.
A paedophile took Madeleine McCann, not her parents Jon Clarke analyses why her parents were not involved and recalls the shocking way he ended up accused of being involved
By Jon Clarke (Publisher & Editor) - PUBLISHED - 11 May, 2017 @ 15:00 LAST UPDATED: 11 May, 2017 @ 15:22 4 SHARE
Madeleine McCannAs the case of missing Madeleine McCann reaches its tenth anniversary, Olive Press editor JON CLARKE – the first journalist on the scene – analyses why her parents were not involved… and recalls the shocking way he ended up accused of being involved.
I RECEIVED the call at 7.15am from the Daily Mail foreign desk. It was a Friday morning as we approached deadline for one of the first editions of the Olive Press, then in its early fledgling stage.
The daughter of a pair of British doctors had gone missing on the Algarve the night before. Could I get over and investigate?
I was on the road half an hour later from Ronda, where we had our office, based out of a cowshed next to my home.
As a stringer for Associated Newspapers in Spain, I was long used to these early morning calls that invariably led to wild goose chases around the Iberian countryside…but this journey would lead to one of the biggest news stories in history.
It was a tale as sad as it was intriguing, and it would keep me in Praia da Luz where four-year-old Maddie went missing for the best part of a month.
It would lead to over a dozen stories in the Olive Press linked to sightings and possible culprits around Spain, with a number making the front pages in the UK.
There were claims that she was put on a ferry in Tarifa, claims she had been sold in Barcelona and even claims that she was living in a small village in Malaga province.
There was even the deluded former deputy chief superintendent, who trolled long and hard from his villa in Andalucia, convinced that the parents were guilty.Madeleine McCann
Finally, I would even find myself accused, more of which later.
Of course, the best whodunnits are always complex and far-fetched. But for a couple of loving parents to murder their daughter, bury and cover all traces in an hour while on holiday is stretching it just a bit too far.
But this didn’t stop the Portuguese police from charging them… and to this day, one notorious ex-detective continues to publish books claiming they were involved.
No care that Kate and Gerry McCann were educated doctors with not a blemish on their names.
That they were on holiday with two other families.
And that they had invited the world’s press to help in the search.
These are just some of the reasons why I am convinced the McCanns did not kill their daughter.
It is perhaps too obvious to point the finger at the parents.
After all, they say that in cases of child molesting and abducting, more than half the time it is family members to blame.
But accusing them had more to do with the ineptitude of the Portuguese police investigation, which didn’t bring in specialists to pick up vital strands of DNA evidence strewn around the flat, until THREE months later.
Then they seized the hire car of the McCann’s, found so-called ‘key, crucial DNA evidence on the back seat,’ and finally allowed them to have it back to drive around.
And, of course, they allowed dozens of local people, including one of the main suspects, Robert Murat – and even me – to wander around the crime scene.
Nor did they shut the border with Spain until the next day.
From the word go, they did not take this crime seriously.
And, in a way, who can blame them?
Praia da Luz sits in the sleepy south west corner of Europe, just short of Sagres. There had been no kidnappings, murders, or any serious crime reported for three years, as it turned out.
The Mark Warner holiday club that charged thousands to parents like the McCanns, did not even have security cameras, or secure premises.
There was no suggestion of putting families on higher floors and anyone could walk into the complex through a small side gate.
All the more perfect for a predatory paedophile who lived in the area.
I was completely shocked by the laid back manner the local authorities were dealing with the case that Friday morning.
When I arrived at about 11.45am I was firstly able to walk into the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns and told them I would do everything I could to help.
The only reporter on the scene till late that evening – apart from Sky News reporter Kay Burley, who happened to be on holiday there – I spent time grilling neighbours, before noticing that a road crew was still digging up the street to lay sewage pipes literally right outside the apartment. The trench was nearly two metres deep and three men continued to shuffle around inside it.
Nobody had stopped them.
Incredibly, we had to wait till late afternoon before a couple of sniffer dogs had arrived, which was amateur to say the least, given that Maddie had been reported missing a full 18 hours earlier.
I am not going to be able to solve the mystery, but I am convinced she was snatched by a local paedophile, who had been watching the family’s movements.
It was coming to the end of their holiday. The fifth night they had put their children to bed and gone down to have dinner with their friends, all doctors bar one.
The apartment door was shut, but within easy reach and in full view of the road and the small village had apparently very little crime . . . until you scratched the surface.
While there had only been one murder of any substance for nearly three years in the area, there was, it turned out, a seedy underworld inhabited by numerous expatriates.
One woman told me how she had been the victim of an attempted snatch at midnight in nearby Lagos a month earlier. A long term English couple, who lived in a nearby hamlet, told me there were ‘half a dozen’ paedophiles living there alone.mccann2
One of these is still being sought.
It was sketchy and unsubstantiated, but there was no doubt – as in any place where northern European expatriates drift in their hundreds – there were a number of bad eggs among them.
Then, there was the Russian connection. Murat’s friend Sergei, a handsome young man, who masqueraded as an estate agent and had a number of connections to boats.
I discovered he worked out of a small office in Lagos, where the police had been the day before to find he had suspiciously just wiped his computer clean.
He refused to comment, but I discovered that he and Murat, who lived in direct sight of the Maddie apartment, allegedly talked a number of times within half an hour of the girl going missing.
While he was never charged, and Murat was later exonerated, it summed up the sense of paranoia that everyone felt in the resort that month.
Whatever happened I am sure the McCanns could not have done it.
Much has been made of the missing hour-and-a-half window between 7pm and 8.30pm on May 3, between Madeleine being put to bed and the parents coming down to dinner.
While Gerry was seen playing tennis, Kate was apparently in the flat . . . she must be guilty then? Not really. She was probably relaxing, having a bath, putting on her make up for the evening.
One Portuguese tabloid claimed Kate had killed Maddie and then hid the body in the fridge of their apartment before ‘passing it through various locations’ and finally moving it in a hire car, perhaps on a ‘suspicious’ trip to Huelva three weeks later.
But given that the apartment fridges are tiny, they would have had to chop her up first. Would they have then calmly sat at dinner with their friends at 8.30pm, showing no sign of a struggle or the anguish of murdering their daughter to their pals?
If they had killed Madeleine and then somehow driven her body away in the tiny time scale, they would have needed to have gone more than 25 miles – the distance from the resort sniffer dogs and police searched.
That would mean driving for at least half an hour on the windy backroads inland from the Algarve. They did not know the back roads, nor a good spot to hide the body. How would they have hidden the body? Using a shovel? Hold on, would not there then be a shop somewhere that sold them a shovel? Is anyone still missing a shovel? If so, please call the Olive Press newsdesk.
It is all so far fetched it is quite ridiculous. And then I got accused of being involved!!!
It came after I inadvertently found myself interviewing a former nightclub bouncer in Huelva, who claimed he know who snatched Maddie.
A huge Angolan chap, he told me she had been taken on order and was now, most likely, in America.
We double checked his credentials, ran it past Maddie’s family and published a carefully worded and, I believe, sensitive piece, which then of course got picked up by the Sun to be splashed on its front page. Not so sensitively.
And all hell broke loose.
Within a week there was a 5,000-word essay from an anti-McCann ‘troll’ named Tony Bennett, a solicitor, who was later found guilty of contempt of court over his repeated claims that the parents were guilty.
In his article, still online, ‘Jon Clarke’s role in Maddie in US claim’, he made numerous wild accusations about me and my integrity, named my wife and children and even where I lived.
He accused me of lying about the case, and crucially claimed I could not have got to Praia da Luz so quickly on the day after her disappearance.
He suggested I was actually staying there.
More alarmingly, it emerged, he had close connections to the aforementioned former UK police chief, who is still based in Andalucia.
When I went to confront this ex-copper, who I vaguely knew, he refused to back down and thrust me a pamphlet entitled ‘What Really Happened to Madeleine?’, which gave 60 reasons insisting she was not abducted.
It’s fair to say we do not see eye to eye, but he is sadly one of millions of people around the world who still think the McCanns are guilty.
One thing for sure, it made me think long and hard about doing my job and how evil and pernicious the internet and its many trolls can be.
I doubt the case will ever be solved, but I am certain the parents were not involved.
And nor, should I add, was I. http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2017/05/11/madeleine-mccann-olive-press-editor-talks-first-journalist-scene-10th-anniversary-disappearance/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 11, 2017, 10:13:09 PM
Excellent article, from someone who was actually there at the time and knows what he's talking about. G-Unit's nit-picking of a few trivial details in an attemt to rubbish the whole article is a bit desperate IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 12, 2017, 06:47:19 AM
Excellent article, from someone who was actually there at the time and knows what he's talking about. G-Unit's nit-picking of a few trivial details in an attemt to rubbish the whole article is a bit desperate IMO.
I think it's a bit desperate to applaud every article just because they say what you want to hear.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 12, 2017, 07:02:43 AM
Another uninformed piece. How did he walk into the apartment and introduce himself to the McCanns on the morning of 4th May? They were with the police in Portimao at the time quoted. I don't think Kay Burley was there. Malinka was a computer person not an estate agent, and the small side gate led to 5A, not a 'complex'.
A paedophile took Madeleine McCann, not her parents Jon Clarke analyses why her parents were not involved and recalls the shocking way he ended up accused of being involved
By Jon Clarke (Publisher & Editor) - PUBLISHED - 11 May, 2017 @ 15:00 LAST UPDATED: 11 May, 2017 @ 15:22 4 SHARE
Madeleine McCannAs the case of missing Madeleine McCann reaches its tenth anniversary, Olive Press editor JON CLARKE – the first journalist on the scene – analyses why her parents were not involved… and recalls the shocking way he ended up accused of being involved.
I RECEIVED the call at 7.15am from the Daily Mail foreign desk. It was a Friday morning as we approached deadline for one of the first editions of the Olive Press, then in its early fledgling stage.
The daughter of a pair of British doctors had gone missing on the Algarve the night before. Could I get over and investigate?
I was on the road half an hour later from Ronda, where we had our office, based out of a cowshed next to my home.
As a stringer for Associated Newspapers in Spain, I was long used to these early morning calls that invariably led to wild goose chases around the Iberian countryside…but this journey would lead to one of the biggest news stories in history.
It was a tale as sad as it was intriguing, and it would keep me in Praia da Luz where four-year-old Maddie went missing for the best part of a month.
It would lead to over a dozen stories in the Olive Press linked to sightings and possible culprits around Spain, with a number making the front pages in the UK.
There were claims that she was put on a ferry in Tarifa, claims she had been sold in Barcelona and even claims that she was living in a small village in Malaga province.
There was even the deluded former deputy chief superintendent, who trolled long and hard from his villa in Andalucia, convinced that the parents were guilty.Madeleine McCann
Finally, I would even find myself accused, more of which later.
Of course, the best whodunnits are always complex and far-fetched. But for a couple of loving parents to murder their daughter, bury and cover all traces in an hour while on holiday is stretching it just a bit too far.
But this didn’t stop the Portuguese police from charging them… and to this day, one notorious ex-detective continues to publish books claiming they were involved.
No care that Kate and Gerry McCann were educated doctors with not a blemish on their names.
That they were on holiday with two other families.
And that they had invited the world’s press to help in the search.
These are just some of the reasons why I am convinced the McCanns did not kill their daughter.
It is perhaps too obvious to point the finger at the parents.
After all, they say that in cases of child molesting and abducting, more than half the time it is family members to blame.
But accusing them had more to do with the ineptitude of the Portuguese police investigation, which didn’t bring in specialists to pick up vital strands of DNA evidence strewn around the flat, until THREE months later.
Then they seized the hire car of the McCann’s, found so-called ‘key, crucial DNA evidence on the back seat,’ and finally allowed them to have it back to drive around.
And, of course, they allowed dozens of local people, including one of the main suspects, Robert Murat – and even me – to wander around the crime scene.
Nor did they shut the border with Spain until the next day.
From the word go, they did not take this crime seriously.
And, in a way, who can blame them?
Praia da Luz sits in the sleepy south west corner of Europe, just short of Sagres. There had been no kidnappings, murders, or any serious crime reported for three years, as it turned out.
The Mark Warner holiday club that charged thousands to parents like the McCanns, did not even have security cameras, or secure premises.
There was no suggestion of putting families on higher floors and anyone could walk into the complex through a small side gate.
All the more perfect for a predatory paedophile who lived in the area.
I was completely shocked by the laid back manner the local authorities were dealing with the case that Friday morning.
When I arrived at about 11.45am I was firstly able to walk into the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns and told them I would do everything I could to help.
The only reporter on the scene till late that evening – apart from Sky News reporter Kay Burley, who happened to be on holiday there – I spent time grilling neighbours, before noticing that a road crew was still digging up the street to lay sewage pipes literally right outside the apartment. The trench was nearly two metres deep and three men continued to shuffle around inside it.
Nobody had stopped them.
Incredibly, we had to wait till late afternoon before a couple of sniffer dogs had arrived, which was amateur to say the least, given that Maddie had been reported missing a full 18 hours earlier.
I am not going to be able to solve the mystery, but I am convinced she was snatched by a local paedophile, who had been watching the family’s movements.
It was coming to the end of their holiday. The fifth night they had put their children to bed and gone down to have dinner with their friends, all doctors bar one.
The apartment door was shut, but within easy reach and in full view of the road and the small village had apparently very little crime . . . until you scratched the surface.
While there had only been one murder of any substance for nearly three years in the area, there was, it turned out, a seedy underworld inhabited by numerous expatriates.
One woman told me how she had been the victim of an attempted snatch at midnight in nearby Lagos a month earlier. A long term English couple, who lived in a nearby hamlet, told me there were ‘half a dozen’ paedophiles living there alone.mccann2
One of these is still being sought.
It was sketchy and unsubstantiated, but there was no doubt – as in any place where northern European expatriates drift in their hundreds – there were a number of bad eggs among them.
Then, there was the Russian connection. Murat’s friend Sergei, a handsome young man, who masqueraded as an estate agent and had a number of connections to boats.
I discovered he worked out of a small office in Lagos, where the police had been the day before to find he had suspiciously just wiped his computer clean.
He refused to comment, but I discovered that he and Murat, who lived in direct sight of the Maddie apartment, allegedly talked a number of times within half an hour of the girl going missing.
While he was never charged, and Murat was later exonerated, it summed up the sense of paranoia that everyone felt in the resort that month.
Whatever happened I am sure the McCanns could not have done it.
Much has been made of the missing hour-and-a-half window between 7pm and 8.30pm on May 3, between Madeleine being put to bed and the parents coming down to dinner.
While Gerry was seen playing tennis, Kate was apparently in the flat . . . she must be guilty then? Not really. She was probably relaxing, having a bath, putting on her make up for the evening.
One Portuguese tabloid claimed Kate had killed Maddie and then hid the body in the fridge of their apartment before ‘passing it through various locations’ and finally moving it in a hire car, perhaps on a ‘suspicious’ trip to Huelva three weeks later.
But given that the apartment fridges are tiny, they would have had to chop her up first. Would they have then calmly sat at dinner with their friends at 8.30pm, showing no sign of a struggle or the anguish of murdering their daughter to their pals?
If they had killed Madeleine and then somehow driven her body away in the tiny time scale, they would have needed to have gone more than 25 miles – the distance from the resort sniffer dogs and police searched.
That would mean driving for at least half an hour on the windy backroads inland from the Algarve. They did not know the back roads, nor a good spot to hide the body. How would they have hidden the body? Using a shovel? Hold on, would not there then be a shop somewhere that sold them a shovel? Is anyone still missing a shovel? If so, please call the Olive Press newsdesk.
It is all so far fetched it is quite ridiculous. And then I got accused of being involved!!!
It came after I inadvertently found myself interviewing a former nightclub bouncer in Huelva, who claimed he know who snatched Maddie.
A huge Angolan chap, he told me she had been taken on order and was now, most likely, in America.
We double checked his credentials, ran it past Maddie’s family and published a carefully worded and, I believe, sensitive piece, which then of course got picked up by the Sun to be splashed on its front page. Not so sensitively.
And all hell broke loose.
Within a week there was a 5,000-word essay from an anti-McCann ‘troll’ named Tony Bennett, a solicitor, who was later found guilty of contempt of court over his repeated claims that the parents were guilty.
In his article, still online, ‘Jon Clarke’s role in Maddie in US claim’, he made numerous wild accusations about me and my integrity, named my wife and children and even where I lived.
He accused me of lying about the case, and crucially claimed I could not have got to Praia da Luz so quickly on the day after her disappearance.
He suggested I was actually staying there.
More alarmingly, it emerged, he had close connections to the aforementioned former UK police chief, who is still based in Andalucia.
When I went to confront this ex-copper, who I vaguely knew, he refused to back down and thrust me a pamphlet entitled ‘What Really Happened to Madeleine?’, which gave 60 reasons insisting she was not abducted.
It’s fair to say we do not see eye to eye, but he is sadly one of millions of people around the world who still think the McCanns are guilty.
One thing for sure, it made me think long and hard about doing my job and how evil and pernicious the internet and its many trolls can be.
I doubt the case will ever be solved, but I am certain the parents were not involved.
And nor, should I add, was I. http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2017/05/11/madeleine-mccann-olive-press-editor-talks-first-journalist-scene-10th-anniversary-disappearance/
Thank you very much for this. It is a true classic. It was very enjoyable, unfortunately for all the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on May 12, 2017, 07:06:45 AM
I think it's a bit desperate to applaud every article by every know-nothing just because they say what you want to hear.
I think it's the height of arragance to believe you know more about something that someone who was actually there and who actually met the McCanns and who has followed this case closely from day one. "Know-nothing"? What incredible arrogance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 08:08:35 AM
I think it's the height of arragance to believe you know more about something that someone who was actually there and who actually met the McCanns and who has followed this case closely from day one. "Know-nothing"? What incredible arrogance.
At least he met and spoke to the McCanns before taking out his chisel to get to work on his 'tablet of stone' opinion piece, which is something the senior investigating officer didn't bother to do.
Amaral relied on the second hand reports of his officers and witness statements which fitted his prejudices.
Which is no doubt fine if it concerns the evidence ... but when it reduces immeasurable grief into the tittle tattle of 'praying Arabs' it is hardly objective.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on May 12, 2017, 09:04:42 AM
I think I will drop Jon Clarke an email so he can read this exchange. Perhaps he'd like to defend himself agsinst accusations of knowing nothing.
His times may be inaccurate (due to fallibility of memory) but according to David Payne, not only did Yvonne Mitchell turn up at around 9.30 (according to her), but Robert Murat and a 'journalist' also arrived at some stage during that morning while they were waiting to be taken to the police station Could this be Jon Clarke?
Quote 1485 "And then you spoke to Yvonne MARTIN around about nine o' clock you said.' Reply "Mm.' 1485 "What did you do up until nine o' clock'' Reply "Err I remember we were hang, you know I was outside with, you know, with Kate quite a bit err just basically looking, seeing whether anything was happening, err outside, err I say there was, there was the local report and the news journalist who came up as well at some stage, then err then there was a correspondence between you know, with Robert MURAT and the err Police who err arrived and you know trying to find out what was going on. And then, you know, obviously we were gonna be going to the err Portim' Police Station and then you know we were waiting obviously for that to happen and err that's about it really.'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 12, 2017, 09:11:51 AM
His times may be inaccurate (due to fallibility of memory) but according to David Payne, not only did Yvonne Mitchell turn up at around 9.30 (according to her), but Robert Murat and a 'journalist' also arrived at some stage during that morning while they were waiting to be taken to the police station Could this be Jon Clarke?
Quote 1485 "And then you spoke to Yvonne MARTIN around about nine o' clock you said.' Reply "Mm.' 1485 "What did you do up until nine o' clock'' Reply "Err I remember we were hang, you know I was outside with, you know, with Kate quite a bit err just basically looking, seeing whether anything was happening, err outside, err I say there was, there was the local report and the news journalist who came up as well at some stage, then err then there was a correspondence between you know, with Robert MURAT and the err Police who err arrived and you know trying to find out what was going on. And then, you know, obviously we were gonna be going to the err Portim' Police Station and then you know we were waiting obviously for that to happen and err that's about it really.'
I've not seen any other journalist claiming to have spoken to Kate and Gerry on the 4th. So that looks very much like verification of Jon Clarke's version of events.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 12, 2017, 09:28:02 AM
I've not seen any other journalist claiming to have spoken to Kate and Gerry on the 4th. So that looks very much like verification of Jon Clarke's version of events.
So talking to someone, could rule them out.
Right, got it. *&*%£
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 12, 2017, 09:30:12 AM
I think your opinion might carry some weight ... if you explained it a bit more ... rather than trotting out the latest put down on everything which dents whatever theory you espouse.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 12, 2017, 09:31:11 AM
His times may be inaccurate (due to fallibility of memory) but according to David Payne, not only did Yvonne Mitchell turn up at around 9.30 (according to her), but Robert Murat and a 'journalist' also arrived at some stage during that morning while they were waiting to be taken to the police station Could this be Jon Clarke?
Quote 1485 "And then you spoke to Yvonne MARTIN around about nine o' clock you said.' Reply "Mm.' 1485 "What did you do up until nine o' clock'' Reply "Err I remember we were hang, you know I was outside with, you know, with Kate quite a bit err just basically looking, seeing whether anything was happening, err outside, err I say there was, there was the local report and the news journalist who came up as well at some stage, then err then there was a correspondence between you know, with Robert MURAT and the err Police who err arrived and you know trying to find out what was going on. And then, you know, obviously we were gonna be going to the err Portim' Police Station and then you know we were waiting obviously for that to happen and err that's about it really.'
He admits he didn't arrive until 11.45 am, by which time the McCanns and the other interviewees among their friends were gone from Luz.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 09:53:24 AM
Alfie accused me of desperation because I pointed out the incorrect details in the article. I replyed by returning the compliment. ?{)(**
Thanks you're very kind. Perhaps you could explain why a few (very) trivial details in the journo's first hand account make this article worthless and he a "know-nothing"? It strikes me that you are determined to pour scorn on this article - but why? Could it be that it is for the simple reason that the author firmly believes the McCanns did not hide their child's body? Surely he's entitled to an opinion and surely you respect his right to this opinion, don't you?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 09:54:28 AM
So you already 'know' what happened? One wonders why the Policia Judiciaria and Scotland Yard have placed such store in their continuing investigations when all they have to do is ask you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 12, 2017, 10:00:30 AM
Thanks you're very kind. Perhaps you could explain why a few (very) trivial details in the journo's first hand account make this article worthless and he a "know-nothing"? It strikes me that you are determined to pour scorn on this article - but why? Could it be that it is for the simple reason that the author firmly believes the McCanns did not hide their child's body? Surely he's entitled to an opinion and surely you respect his right to this opinion, don't you?
He was on the ground, Alfie.
He was therefore well placed to ascertain how physically impossible it would have been for the McCanns to have done what they are accused of.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on May 12, 2017, 10:08:32 AM
He admits he didn't arrive until 11.45 am, by which time the McCanns and the other interviewees among their friends were gone from Luz.
It doesn't mean his memory of the time is correct G. The differences between times remembered in many of the witness statements are vast - even though they are all talking about the same event.
He may have mis-remembered the time he arrived, but that doesn't prove he wasn't there.
Your apparent expectation that everyone should be able to remember the precise time of every move they made at any given time is totally unrealistic imo.
The human memory is notoriously fallible.
AIMHO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 12, 2017, 10:09:20 AM
Thanks you're very kind. Perhaps you could explain why a few (very) trivial details in the journo's first hand account make this article worthless and he a "know-nothing"? It strikes me that you are determined to pour scorn on this article - but why? Could it be that it is for the simple reason that the author firmly believes the McCanns did not hide their child's body? Surely he's entitled to an opinion and surely you respect his right to this opinion, don't you?
He's entitled to his opinion as is everyone. As a journalist he should check his facts too. If his facts are wrong his opinion doesn't deserve to be valued.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 10:11:21 AM
He's entitled to his opinion as is everyone. As a journalist he should check his facts too. If his facts are wrong his opinion doesn't deserve to be valued.
What, so because he misremembered the time he arrived the whole article can be dismissed as a piece of crap is that what you're saying?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 12, 2017, 10:13:06 AM
So you already 'know' what happened? One wonders why the Policia Judiciaria and Scotland Yard have placed such store in their continuing investigations when all they have to do is ask you.
Like I asked you yesterday, have they solved the crime ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 12, 2017, 10:16:48 AM
It doesn't mean his memory of the time is correct G. The differences between times remembered in many of the witness statements are vast - even though they are all talking about the same event.
He may have mis-remembered the time he arrived, but that doesn't prove he wasn't there.
Your apparent expectation that everyone should be able to remember the precise time of every move they made at any given time is totally unrealistic imo.
The human memory is notoriously fallible.
AIMHO
So he got it wrong about when he arrived? He says;
"When I arrived at about 11.45am I was firstly able to walk into the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns and told them I would do everything I could to help."
Perhaps his watch was still on Spanish time, so he left Spain at 6.45 am, not 7.45 am and arrived at 10.45 am not 11.45 am? As the PJ arrived at 10 am to take the McCanns to Portimao he still missed them, I'm afraid. He's wrong about being able to enter 5A too, and even if he had, the McCanns weren't in there, the forensic people were.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 12, 2017, 10:36:27 AM
So he got it wrong about when he arrived? He also got it wrong about speaking to the parents upon his arrival.
He says;
"When I arrived at about 11.45am I was firstly able to walk into the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns and told them I would do everything I could to help."
Perhaps his watch was still on Spanish time, so he left Spain at 6.45 am, not 7.45 am and arrived at 10.45 am not 11.45 am? As the PJ arrived at 10 am to take the McCanns to Portimao he still missed them, I'm afraid. He's wrong about being able to enter 5A too, and even if he had, the McCanns weren't in there, the forensic people were.
Do you have a cite for the PJ leaving on the dot of 10am? Kate wasn't interviewed until 2pm - the journey to the station is less than half an hour so what was the poor woman doing for 3 and a half hours at the station prior to the interview?
You (who was not there) know better than the man himself (who was) that he did not meet the parents on the morning of the 4th - quite incredible!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on May 12, 2017, 10:50:23 AM
So he got it wrong about when he arrived? He says;
"When I arrived at about 11.45am I was firstly able to walk into the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns and told them I would do everything I could to help."
Perhaps his watch was still on Spanish time, so he left Spain at 6.45 am, not 7.45 am and arrived at 10.45 am not 11.45 am? As the PJ arrived at 10 am to take the McCanns to Portimao he still missed them, I'm afraid. He's wrong about being able to enter 5A too, and even if he had, the McCanns weren't in there, the forensic people were.
So do you think David Payne was lying when he said a journalist arrived.
Yvonne Mitchell seemed to think there was no reason why they could not go into 5A at that time.
Quote Because she found it strange that Kate told her that her daughter had been taken by a couple, she tried to separate her from the other two individuals so that she could speak to her with more privacy, suggesting to Kate that they (Y and K) should enter the apartment, Kate aggressively rejected this idea and told her that they could speak on the street. Unquote
No mention of Kate saying they couldn't go into 5a because the forensic bods were in there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on May 12, 2017, 11:05:02 AM
What, so because he misremembered the time he arrived the whole article can be dismissed as a piece of crap is that what you're saying?
No. All the mistakes I highlighted, not just one. Opinions abound in this case ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous. Should we just accept them all unquestioningly?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 12, 2017, 11:08:47 AM
No. All the mistakes I highlighted, not just one. Opinions abound in this case ranging from the sublime to the ridiculous. Should we just accept them all unquestioningly?
What is ridiculous about Jon Clarke's opinion?
ALL the mistakes? They are piffling and do not in any way compromise his opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 11:21:33 AM
No it isn't, agreeing with someone post isn't goading, over effusive commendations of their post and their supposed intellectual prowess is.
OK, well you tell me what level of commendation I may be permitted then. Also, in my opinion G-Unit is desperate to denigrate Jon Clarke and his article, that is not a slur on her (undoubtedly huge) intellectual prowess.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 12, 2017, 11:22:36 AM
So do you think David Payne was lying when he said a journalist arrived.
Yvonne Mitchell seemed to think there was no reason why they could not go into 5A at that time.
Quote Because she found it strange that Kate told her that her daughter had been taken by a couple, she tried to separate her from the other two individuals so that she could speak to her with more privacy, suggesting to Kate that they (Y and K) should enter the apartment, Kate aggressively rejected this idea and told her that they could speak on the street. Unquote No mention of Kate saying they couldn't go into 5a because the forensic bods were in there.
I expect it was Len Port, he arrived very early;
The only other people in sight were two women in conversation close to a corner ground floor apartment, 5A. As I approached, I noticed that one of them was clearly distressed, so much so I guessed she must be the missing girl's mother, Kate McCann. Later I learned that the other woman was a senior social worker on holiday from England. I overheard Mrs McCann tell her the police were "doing nothing" to find her daughter. She complained that they had not even questioned people staying in the same block of apartments. I understood the social worker to suggest that a description of the missing child should be circulated more widely. That prompted me to introduce myself as an Algarve-based reporter and say that I could use contacts to arrange alerts to be broadcast on an Algarve bilingual radio station. It had flashed through my mind that such alerts had been broadcast when Rachel Charles was reported missing in the Algarve 17 years earlier. The social worker then mentioned the British Consulate. I said I could help there too as I knew the staff at the Consulate and had just spoken to one of them on the phone. Perhaps my offer sounded disingenuous coming from a total stranger and a reporter to boot. Anyway, it was ignored. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/86june14/LenPort_June2014.htm
The apartment was secured and guarded, apparently, no matter what people thought;
The witness carried out finger print testing on the inside of the bedroom window, where the girl had been sleeping, leaving other examinations for the following day given that on that occasion these tests could not be carried out in the best technical conditions. For this reason, the apartments and the surrounding area were sealed off, watched over by the GNR officers who remained on site. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 12, 2017, 11:52:25 AM
Do you have a cite for the PJ leaving on the dot of 10am? Kate wasn't interviewed until 2pm - the journey to the station is less than half an hour so what was the poor woman doing for 3 and a half hours at the station prior to the interview?
You (who was not there) know better than the man himself (who was) that he did not meet the parents on the morning of the 4th - quite incredible!
I find it quite incredible that he claimed to have met them when it was clearly impossible. He couldn't get to Luz before 10.45 am at the earliest. By 10.45 am the parents were not in any apartment, they were in Portimao or well on their way there. The facts recorded by Kate are below.
She says the PJ arrived at 10 am to take them for questioning. They spent time waiting then;
[Madeleine] After an hour or so, Gerry, Matt and Jane were taken off for questioning.
Gerry's interview took place at 11.15 am, Matt and Jane's at 11.30 am. It wasn't an hour they waited because even if they left Luz at 10 am sharp they were only there for 45 minutes before Gerry's interview.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 12:49:01 PM
I find it quite incredible that he claimed to have met them when it was clearly impossible. He couldn't get to Luz before 10.45 am at the earliest. By 10.45 am the parents were not in any apartment, they were in Portimao or well on their way there. The facts recorded by Kate are below.
She says the PJ arrived at 10 am to take them for questioning. They spent time waiting then;
[Madeleine] After an hour or so, Gerry, Matt and Jane were taken off for questioning.
Gerry's interview took place at 11.15 am, Matt and Jane's at 11.30 am. It wasn't an hour they waited because even if they left Luz at 10 am sharp they were only there for 45 minutes before Gerry's interview.
If Jon Clarke's account is "impossible" then you're basically calling the author a liar. Thanks for confirming, I will now take this up with the journo himself.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 12, 2017, 01:12:06 PM
If Jon Clarke's account is "impossible" then you're basically calling the author a liar. Thanks for confirming, I will now take this up with the journo himself.
I will be interested to hear his explanation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 02:52:47 PM
Who knows? He was called out at 7.15 am. by the Daily Mail. He set off at 7.45 am. It takes four and a half hours from Ronda to Luz. His arrival time of 11.15 am appears correct, allowing for the time difference. Gerry was beginning his interview at Portimao police station and Kate was in the waiting room.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 06:19:22 PM
Jon Clarke (Publisher & Editor) 12 May, 2017 @ 09:26 at 09:26 I’m pretty sure Kate Burley was also there on holiday, whether jo wheeler was reporting or not, and as for meeting the mccanns if it was an hour or so later so what?!! I was there earlier and longer than most online trolls and armchair detectives who spend their whole time picking apart anything or anyone who thinks the parents are innocent… As Kate Burley later wrote she was stunned at the amount of ‘[ censored word ]s’ and conspiracy theorists out there, which was the point of my last few paragraphs – did I deserve to have my family and where I lived dragged into a post by ex detective Peter macloud just because I might have got to praia da luz one hour quicker than him from Ronda and because he disagrees with my findings? Take a deep breath…
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 06:21:02 PM
No need for me to write him, the trolls are out in force under his article, he's replied twice - see above for the first reply.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 12, 2017, 07:33:53 PM
No need for me to write him, the trolls are out in force under his article, he's replied twice - see above for the first reply.
Truthfulness doesn't seem to matter to him, does it? Caught out lying his (rather childish imo) reply is "So what". Journalists used to have standards but few do these days, and he's a prime example. He should learn about ethical journalism perhaps;
Truth and Accuracy Journalists cannot always guarantee ‘truth’, but getting the facts right is the cardinal principle of journalism. We should always strive for accuracy, give all the relevant facts we have and ensure that they have been checked. When we cannot corroborate information we should say so. http://ethicaljournalismnetwork.org/who-we-are/5-principles-of-journalism
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 12, 2017, 08:09:19 PM
Truthfulness doesn't seem to matter to him, does it? Caught out lying his (rather childish imo) reply is "So what". Journalists used to have standards but few do these days, and he's a prime example. He should learn about ethical journalism perhaps;
Truth and Accuracy Journalists cannot always guarantee ‘truth’, but getting the facts right is the cardinal principle of journalism. We should always strive for accuracy, give all the relevant facts we have and ensure that they have been checked. When we cannot corroborate information we should say so. http://ethicaljournalismnetwork.org/who-we-are/5-principles-of-journalism
What is the lie?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 12, 2017, 08:14:25 PM
When I arrived at about 11.45am I was firstly able to walk into the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns and told them I would do everything I could to help.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 12, 2017, 08:25:48 PM
When I arrived at about 11.45am I was firstly able to walk into the apartment, where I introduced myself to the McCanns and told them I would do everything I could to help.
You have raised the point the time is wrong ~ I missed the "in your opinion" to accompany what is in effect, your opinion ... please confirm the lie and provide the supporting evidence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 10:10:08 PM
Truthfulness doesn't seem to matter to him, does it? Caught out lying his (rather childish imo) reply is "So what". Journalists used to have standards but few do these days, and he's a prime example. He should learn about ethical journalism perhaps;
Truth and Accuracy Journalists cannot always guarantee ‘truth’, but getting the facts right is the cardinal principle of journalism. We should always strive for accuracy, give all the relevant facts we have and ensure that they have been checked. When we cannot corroborate information we should say so. http://ethicaljournalismnetwork.org/who-we-are/5-principles-of-journalism
You have accused Jon Clarke of breaching professional ethics and of lying. You'd better be absolutely certain you're right hadn't you?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 12, 2017, 10:38:46 PM
You have raised the point the time is wrong ~ I missed the "in your opinion" to accompany what is in effect, your opinion ... please confirm the lie and provide the supporting evidence.
It wasn't an opinion, it was clear from the evidence that he wasn't able to arrive in Luz before the McCanns left for the Police station, so he could not have spoken to them on the morning of 4th May.
He did not meet the McCanns at the time he said he did and he has now, rather ungraciously, admitted it. The reporter he refers to is Kay, not Kate Burley, by the way and the video link below shows her at work on the morning of 4th May 2007;
Jon Clarke (Publisher & Editor) 12 May, 2017 @ 09:26 at 09:26 I’m pretty sure Kate Burley was also there on holiday, whether jo wheeler was reporting or not, and as for meeting the mccanns if it was an hour or so later so what?!! http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2017/05/11/madeleine-mccann-olive-press-editor-talks-first-journalist-scene-10th-anniversary-disappearance/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RazOGuQ_r8E
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 10:46:44 PM
It wasn't an opinion, it was clear from the evidence that he wasn't able to arrive in Luz before the McCanns left for the Police station, so he could not have spoken to them on the morning of 4th May.
He did not meet the McCanns at the time he said he did and he has now, rather ungraciously, admitted it. The reporter he refers to is Kay, not Kate Burley, by the way and the video link below shows her at work on the morning of 4th May 2007;
Jon Clarke (Publisher & Editor) 12 May, 2017 @ 09:26 at 09:26 I’m pretty sure Kate Burley was also there on holiday, whether jo wheeler was reporting or not, and as for meeting the mccanns if it was an hour or so later so what?!! http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2017/05/11/madeleine-mccann-olive-press-editor-talks-first-journalist-scene-10th-anniversary-disappearance/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RazOGuQ_r8E
So what indeed. Talk about making sometimg out of nothing. No proof that he lied still I see, only an admission that he may have got the time wrong. We all make mistakes (apart from sceptics who are perfect in every way).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 12, 2017, 11:20:42 PM
So what indeed. Talk about making sometimg out of nothing. No proof that he lied still I see, only an admission that he may have got the time wrong. We all make mistakes (apart from sceptics who are perfect in every way).
He thought he spoke to the McCanns that morning, but if he did speak to them it was after 8.30 pm, at least nine hours after he said it was. What a memory! How many "mistakes" did he make in his article I wonder?
1. He didn't enter 5A 2. He didn't speak to the McCanns that morning. 3. He didn't see Kay Burley there. 4. He wasn't the first journalist on the scene. 5. The Portuguese police didn't charge the McCanns. 6. There were four families in the group. not three. 7. It was not three months before the PJ looked for forensic evidence. 8. There were no road works 'literally right outside the apartment' with a two metre deep trench. 9. Sergei Malinka didn't masquerade as an estate agent. http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2017/05/11/madeleine-mccann-olive-press-editor-talks-first-journalist-scene-10th-anniversary-disappearance/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 11:40:54 PM
He thought he spoke to the McCanns that morning, but if he did speak to them it was after 8.30 pm, at least nine hours after he said it was. What a memory! How many "mistakes" did he make in his article I wonder?
1. He didn't enter 5A 2. He didn't speak to the McCanns that morning. 3. He didn't see Kay Burley there. 4. He wasn't the first journalist on the scene. 5. The Portuguese police didn't charge the McCanns. 6. There were four families in the group. not three. 7. It was not three months before the PJ looked for forensic evidence. 8. There were no road works 'literally right outside the apartment' with a two metre deep trench. 9. Sergei Malinka didn't masquerade as an estate agent. http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2017/05/11/madeleine-mccann-olive-press-editor-talks-first-journalist-scene-10th-anniversary-disappearance/
As you have no way of knowing for certain whether points 1,2 and 4 are true or not I strongly suggest the use of a CAVEAT.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 12, 2017, 11:53:27 PM
The only other people in sight were two women in conversation close to a corner ground floor apartment, 5A. As I approached, I noticed that one of them was clearly distressed, so much so I guessed she must be the missing girl's mother, Kate McCann. Later I learned that the other woman was a senior social worker on holiday from England. I overheard Mrs McCann tell her the police were "doing nothing" to find her daughter. She complained that they had not even questioned people staying in the same block of apartments. I understood the social worker to suggest that a description of the missing child should be circulated more widely. That prompted me to introduce myself as an Algarve-based reporter and say that I could use contacts to arrange alerts to be broadcast on an Algarve bilingual radio station. It had flashed through my mind that such alerts had been broadcast when Rachel Charles was reported missing in the Algarve 17 years earlier. The social worker then mentioned the British Consulate. I said I could help there too as I knew the staff at the Consulate and had just spoken to one of them on the phone. Perhaps my offer sounded disingenuous coming from a total stranger and a reporter to boot. Anyway, it was ignored. http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/86june14/LenPort_June2014.htm
The apartment was secured and guarded, apparently, no matter what people thought;
The witness carried out finger print testing on the inside of the bedroom window, where the girl had been sleeping, leaving other examinations for the following day given that on that occasion these tests could not be carried out in the best technical conditions. For this reason, the apartments and the surrounding area were sealed off, watched over by the GNR officers who remained on site. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm
Len Port's first-hand observations chime uncannily well with Jon Clarke's
"Len Port, now an Algarve publisher who covered the case for The Portugal News, said: "The police search was highly inefficient, as, frankly, was everything else about the case. The way the police handled it was desperately amateurish - and ultimately, a travesty of justice."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-560696/Madeleine-The-damning-case-police-Britains-investigative-reporter.html#ixzz4guLZStOu Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 13, 2017, 05:26:55 AM
Len Port's first-hand observations chime uncannily well with Jon Clarke's
"Len Port, now an Algarve publisher who covered the case for The Portugal News, said: "The police search was highly inefficient, as, frankly, was everything else about the case. The way the police handled it was desperately amateurish - and ultimately, a travesty of justice."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-560696/Madeleine-The-damning-case-police-Britains-investigative-reporter.html#ixzz4guLZStOu Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
That is a tough article to digest, Quite gruesome stuff mentioned in there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 13, 2017, 07:21:52 AM
As you have no way of knowing for certain whether points 1,2 and 4 are true or not I strongly suggest the use of a CAVEAT.
He did not enter 5A and speak to the McCanns on the morning of 4th May because the McCanns weren't in 5A at the time he arrived. Len Port was there before him according to both men's accounts. I can see no need of a caveat.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 13, 2017, 07:36:33 AM
Len Port's first-hand observations chime uncannily well with Jon Clarke's
"Len Port, now an Algarve publisher who covered the case for The Portugal News, said: "The police search was highly inefficient, as, frankly, was everything else about the case. The way the police handled it was desperately amateurish - and ultimately, a travesty of justice."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-560696/Madeleine-The-damning-case-police-Britains-investigative-reporter.html#ixzz4guLZStOu Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Len Port is a journalist more worthy of respect in my opinion. His stories are balanced and his facts are checked. His opinion of the way this story has been reported largely match mine;
'Madeleine McCann and the media' by Len Port
Created: 26 April 2017
The most reported and discussed missing person case ever recorded is still not only a highly contentious mystery, but also a personal tragedy that has been turned into a public farce by elements of the media.
In the entirely predictable press frenzy surrounding the imminent 10th anniversary of the disappearance, much of the coverage, particularly in the British tabloids, has been absurd. But it should not be dismissed lightly.
Unable to come up with “news” on the case, the tabloids have been rehashing the same old speculation and guesswork.
“Could Madeleine McCann have been snatched by a lone paedo or simply wandered off?....”
“Abducted by slave traders and sold to a rich family, says ex-Met detective..”
“New hope after decade-long search....”
“Experts say Madeleine McCann’s body is almost impossible to find ”.
And then there was the much-touted Australian TV show that promised “a major breakthrough in the case”.
Meanwhile, the Daily Mirror took a slightly different tack with a story headlined, “What REALLY happened the night Madeleine McCann disappeared as nanny breaks her 10-year silence”.
The story did not explain what “really” happened, nor did it name the nanny or why she had remained silent for so long.
It quoted her as considering the McCanns to be “the picture perfect family” and repeated the usual British criticism of the Portuguese police.
More surprisingly, she claimed that the resort from which Madeleine vanished was considered so unsafe that nannies were given rape alarms (whistles) and advised, “don’t go anywhere by yourself, ever”.
There was nothing to suggest the Mirror had tried to question or check this or any of the nanny’s other assertions, but, in Praia da Luz, they were viewed with derision. It was seen as yet another attempt to brand Praia da Luz as a den of iniquity, which it is not and never has been.
The official police files on the case contain nothing about rape whistles or alarms. None of the signed statements by child-care workers mentioned anything about suspicious goings-on or Luz being “unsafe”.
The manager of the Ocean Club where the McCanns were staying said in a police statement in 2007 that he had “no knowledge of any untoward situation involving Ocean Club users or in the village itself, other than some damage and minor thefts”.
The Mirror story was also a reminder that real journalism has to a large extent been replaced by ‘churnalism’, which disregards traditional standards of original news gathering based on impartiality and fact-checking for accuracy and honesty.
The nanny’s story was quickly recycled virtually verbatim on the Internet by other tabloids. Even the broadsheet Daily Telegraph fell into line as did news services in the United States, Australia and New Zealand.
Trial by the media has had a huge influence on public perceptions about guilt or innocence in this case. Most of the mainstream media reports state as if it were a fact that Madeleine was “abducted”. Maybe she was. Maybe she wasn’t. There is no certainty either about the other main theory, that her parents covered up an accidental death in the apartment.
Until solid evidence is found and the culprits are brought to justice, the public fascination with this case will continue to fuel and be fuelled by the media’s determination to churn out stories whose accuracy and agenda may sometimes be open to doubt.
The current avalanche of stories inevitably evokes the previous admission by Lord Bell, founder and former chairman of the Bell Pottinger public relations group, to columnist and author Owen Jones, that “the McCanns paid me £50,000 in fees to keep them on the front page of every single newspaper for a year, which we did”.
Nevertheless, “Maddie” helps circulation figures and makes money. Money, along with misinformation, has always played far too big a part in this case which, let’s remember, is about the tragic loss of a child. https://www.algarvedailynews.com/news/11540-madeleine-mccann-and-the-media-by-len-port
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 13, 2017, 08:24:58 AM
He did not enter 5A and speak to the McCanns on the morning of 4th May because the McCanns weren't in 5A at the time he arrived. Len Port was there before him according to both men's accounts. I can see no need of a caveat.
Maybe he got his time of arrival wrong. You weren't there so you can't state anything as fact. FACT.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on May 13, 2017, 08:32:51 AM
He did not enter 5A and speak to the McCanns on the morning of 4th May because the McCanns weren't in 5A at the time he arrived. Len Port was there before him according to both men's accounts. I can see no need of a caveat.
I've just read David Payne's comments again and I disagree that JC could not have spoken to the McCanns that morning.
Quote - from David Payne's rog.
Reply "Err I remember we were hang, you know I was outside with, you know, with Kate quite a bit err just basically looking, seeing whether anything was happening, err outside, err I say there was, there was the local report and the news journalist who came up as well at some stage, then err then there was a correspondence between you know, with Robert MURAT and the err Police who err arrived and you know trying to find out what was going on. And then, you know, obviously we were gonna be going to the err Portim' Police Station and then you know we were waiting obviously for that to happen and err that's about it really.' again. End
IMO the word 'report' is a typo and the word should be 'reporter'. This would signify the arrival of two reporters i.e. the local reporter, Len Port followed by the news journalist, (Jon Clarke) ''who came up as well at some stage'' . David Payne is describing what happened before the McCanns left for the police station - so they would still be there when Jon Clarke arrived IMO. David Payne would only know they were reporters if he and/or the McCanns spoke to them - when they would have introduced themselves. AIMHO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 13, 2017, 08:33:43 AM
Maybe he got his time of arrival wrong. You weren't there so you can't state anything as fact. FACT.
As he also gave his departure time I don't need to be there to work out that it's impossible to leave Ronda at 7.45 am and arrive in Luz before 11.15 am. Even I can do the maths required to work that out. FACT.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 13, 2017, 09:26:30 AM
I've just read David Payne's comments again and I disagree that JC could not have spoken to the McCanns that morning.
Quote - from David Payne's rog.
Reply "Err I remember we were hang, you know I was outside with, you know, with Kate quite a bit err just basically looking, seeing whether anything was happening, err outside, err I say there was, there was the local report and the news journalist who came up as well at some stage, then err then there was a correspondence between you know, with Robert MURAT and the err Police who err arrived and you know trying to find out what was going on. And then, you know, obviously we were gonna be going to the err Portim' Police Station and then you know we were waiting obviously for that to happen and err that's about it really.' again. End
IMO the word 'report' is a typo and the word should be 'reporter'. This would signify the arrival of two reporters i.e. the local reporter, Len Port followed by the news journalist, (Jon Clarke) ''who came up as well at some stage'' . David Payne is describing what happened before the McCanns left for the police station - so they would still be there when Jon Clarke arrived IMO. David Payne would only know they were reporters if he and/or the McCanns spoke to them - when they would have introduced themselves. AIMHO
He himself seems to have acknowledged his "mistake" however;
Jon Clarke (Publisher & Editor) 12 May, 2017 @ 09:26 at 09:26 I’m pretty sure Kate Burley was also there on holiday, whether jo wheeler was reporting or not, and as for meeting the mccanns if it was an hour or so later so what?!! http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2017/05/11/madeleine-mccann-olive-press-editor-talks-first-journalist-scene-10th-anniversary-disappearance/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 14, 2017, 10:30:58 PM
I've said it before, but the McCanns really should stay away from TV appearances. They don't seem to engender sympathy, but to a lot of parents and grandparents they sadly serve as a constant reminder of their ineffectual parenting, and the possible fate of their little daughter. And (why they can't see this, I'll never understand) they seem very media-savvy.
I used to feel so desperately sad for them. I still feel crushingly sad, but also a bit used. And patronised.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 15, 2017, 08:11:59 AM
I've said it before, but the McCanns really should stay away from TV appearances. They don't seem to engender sympathy, but to a lot of parents and grandparents they sadly serve as a constant reminder of their ineffectual parenting, and the possible fate of their little daughter. And (why they can't see this, I'll never understand) they seem very media-savvy.
I used to feel so desperately sad for them. I still feel crushingly sad, but also a bit used. And patronised.
compassion fatigue. I understand that, no need to apologise.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 16, 2017, 12:01:20 AM
I've said it before, but the McCanns really should stay away from TV appearances. They don't seem to engender sympathy, but to a lot of parents and grandparents they sadly serve as a constant reminder of their ineffectual parenting, and the possible fate of their little daughter. And (why they can't see this, I'll never understand) they seem very media-savvy.
I used to feel so desperately sad for them. I still feel crushingly sad, but also a bit used. And patronised.
I believe their pursuit of Amaral through the courts in Portugal was a really big mistake and achieved nothing at the end of the day except to fill the pockets of the lawyers. They should have put their energy into finding their daughter instead of looking for scapegoats.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on May 16, 2017, 01:10:14 PM
I believe their pursuit of Amaral through the courts in Portugal was a really big mistake and achieved nothing at the end of the day except to fill the pockets of the lawyers. They should have put their energy into finding their daughter instead of looking for scapegoats.
Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing. Maybe if they had been able to see into the future and known just how many years it would take for the case to finally come to court they would have made a different decision. The long delay did them no favours IMO.
I cannot agree that taking action against Amaral for his book which encouraged people to believe Madeleine was dead can possibly come under the heading of ... 'looking for scapegoats'. It's unfortunate IMO that so much prominence has been attributed to 'Freedom of Expression' in PT - that the concept of ' Innocent until proved guilty' has been almost wiped out in the process. AIMHO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 16, 2017, 05:16:39 PM
Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing. Maybe if they had been able to see into the future and known just how many years it would take for the case to finally come to court they would have made a different decision. The long delay did them no favours IMO.
I cannot agree that taking action against Amaral for his book which encouraged people to believe Madeleine was dead can possibly come under the heading of ... 'looking for scapegoats'. It's unfortunate IMO that so much prominence has been attributed to 'Freedom of Expression' in PT - that the concept of ' Innocent until proved guilty' has been almost wiped out in the process. AIMHO
It was considered but it wasn't relevant;
First of all it has to be said that the principle of the presumption of innocence (art. 32°-2 of the CRP, 11°-1 of the UDHR and 6°-2 of the European Convention on Human Rights) is a rule of treatment to be given to the arguido (formal suspect) throughout the judicial criminal process.
Accordingly, this principle can not be construed as a restriction on public discussion of potentially criminal facts http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.15 Page 68
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 16, 2017, 05:59:43 PM
First of all it has to be said that the principle of the presumption of innocence (art. 32°-2 of the CRP, 11°-1 of the UDHR and 6°-2 of the European Convention on Human Rights) is a rule of treatment to be given to the arguido (formal suspect) throughout the judicial criminal process.
Accordingly, this principle can not be construed as a restriction on public discussion of potentially criminal facts http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7937.15 Page 68
Apart from the legalities of the matter there is I think a matter of decency and respect. What respect was shown to Madeleine by insisting on a personal obsession with her death? What respect was shown to Madeleine's parents by writing a book accusing them of complicity?
In my opinion the lack of decency arises when Amaral abused his position as senior officer in Madeleine's case to write a book promoting his theory, exonerating his failures and heaping blame on Madeleine's parents. All in the full knowledge that there was no supporting evidence for any of it.
If there is any saint among us who would not take action to prevent libels being perpetrated against them I've yet to meet him; and if two parents were convinced a campaign conducted against them using all media possible was destroying the credibility of and the search for their missing child I can well understand their chagrin on her behalf.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 16, 2017, 08:04:43 PM
Apart from the legalities of the matter there is I think a matter of decency and respect. What respect was shown to Madeleine by insisting on a personal obsession with her death? What respect was shown to Madeleine's parents by writing a book accusing them of complicity?
In my opinion the lack of decency arises when Amaral abused his position as senior officer in Madeleine's case to write a book promoting his theory, exonerating his failures and heaping blame on Madeleine's parents. All in the full knowledge that there was no supporting evidence for any of it.
If there is any saint among us who would not take action to prevent libels being perpetrated against them I've yet to meet him; and if two parents were convinced a campaign conducted against them using all media possible was destroying the credibility of and the search for their missing child I can well understand their chagrin on her behalf.
Unfortunately for them the Portuguese courts (or any others) don't make judgements based on sympathy and emotion. Their legal arguments were what counted and they were inadequate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on May 16, 2017, 09:03:49 PM
Unfortunately for them the Portuguese courts (or any others) don't make judgements based on sympathy and emotion. Their legal arguments were what counted and they were inadequate.
To misquote Mr Bumble sometimes the law is indeed an ass.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 17, 2017, 12:16:08 AM
Unfortunately for them the Portuguese courts (or any others) don't make judgements based on sympathy and emotion. Their legal arguments were what counted and they were inadequate.
I wasn't discussing the Portuguese courts nor was I discussing legal arguments I don't think I was even discussing sympathy and emotion.
I spoke of decency. I also spoke of respect. Which are words describing morality and due consideration as far as others are concerned.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 17, 2017, 05:49:49 AM
I wasn't discussing the Portuguese courts nor was I discussing legal arguments I don't think I was even discussing sympathy and emotion.
I spoke of decency. I also spoke of respect. Which are words describing morality and due consideration as far as others are concerned.
You brought those notions into what was a discussion about Amaral's trial and the relevance of the presumption of innocence, brushing aside 'the legalities' as you did so.
I see nothing immoral about a man writing a book in defence of his and his team's efforts to solve the mystery of Madeleine's disappearance.
I accept that you support the McCanns but no-one knows what happened to Madeleine and until we do the only certainty is that due consideration wasn't given to her safety by those who should have put her needs before their own.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 17, 2017, 08:30:34 AM
You brought those notions into what was a discussion about Amaral's trial and the relevance of the presumption of innocence, brushing aside 'the legalities' as you did so.
I see nothing immoral about a man writing a book in defence of his and his team's efforts to solve the mystery of Madeleine's disappearance.
I accept that you support the McCanns but no-one knows what happened to Madeleine and until we do the only certainty is that due consideration wasn't given to her safety by those who should have put her needs before their own.
Amaral's book is not a defence of his team's efforts to solve Madeleine's disappaearance, it purports to solve that mystery giving us "the truth of the lie". That's the immoral bit IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 17, 2017, 09:05:19 AM
You brought those notions into what was a discussion about Amaral's trial and the relevance of the presumption of innocence, brushing aside 'the legalities' as you did so.
I see nothing immoral about a man writing a book in defence of his and his team's efforts to solve the mystery of Madeleine's disappearance.
I accept that you support the McCanns but no-one knows what happened to Madeleine and until we do the only certainty is that due consideration wasn't given to her safety by those who should have put her needs before their own.
You are yet again failing to differentiate between fact and what is your opinion. But where is the fun in that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 17, 2017, 09:40:07 AM
Amaral's book is not a defence of his team's efforts to solve Madeleine's disappaearance, it purports to solve that mystery giving us "the truth of the lie". That's the immoral bit IMO.
Morality is a matter of opinion. I prefer to rely on the law;
As was stated in the decision, from this Section, concerning the appended injunction, the 1st appellant [Gonçalo Amaral], wanted, through this book – because the institution to which he was bound did not allow him to reply to attacks against his pride and honour, as a professional of the criminal investigation police – to expose his vision of the facts, and therefore the publication of said book has to be considered a legitimate exercise of the right to an opinion. Appeal Court decision http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7153.0
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 17, 2017, 09:46:34 AM
Morality is a matter of opinion. I prefer to rely on the law;
As was stated in the decision, from this Section, concerning the appended injunction, the 1st appellant [Gonçalo Amaral], wanted, through this book – because the institution to which he was bound did not allow him to reply to attacks against his pride and honour, as a professional of the criminal investigation police – to expose his vision of the facts, and therefore the publication of said book has to be considered a legitimate exercise of the right to an opinion. Appeal Court decision http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7153.0
One wonders if the ECHR will give the same weight to McCann "pride and honour" as the Portuguese appeal court gave to Amaral.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 17, 2017, 09:55:34 AM
Morality is a matter of opinion. I prefer to rely on the law;
As was stated in the decision, from this Section, concerning the appended injunction, the 1st appellant [Gonçalo Amaral], wanted, through this book – because the institution to which he was bound did not allow him to reply to attacks against his pride and honour, as a professional of the criminal investigation police – to expose his vision of the facts, and therefore the publication of said book has to be considered a legitimate exercise of the right to an opinion. Appeal Court decision http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7153.0
pride? Honour? All very emotive, subjective terms. It seems in Portugal everyone has the right to expressing an opinion even if it includes blatant misrepresentations of the truth which hurt others. If you think that's fair and just then I'm afraid I don't share that opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 17, 2017, 09:59:06 AM
Morality is a matter of opinion. I prefer to rely on the law;
As was stated in the decision, from this Section, concerning the appended injunction, the 1st appellant [Gonçalo Amaral], wanted, through this book – because the institution to which he was bound did not allow him to reply to attacks against his pride and honour, as a professional of the criminal investigation police – to expose his vision of the facts, and therefore the publication of said book has to be considered a legitimate exercise of the right to an opinion. Appeal Court decision http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7153.0
The Institution to which he was bound refused him permission to write a book. Kudos to them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 17, 2017, 10:04:57 AM
They admitted to neglecting to ensure the safety of their children, which did them no favours imo. They demonstrated what many saw as unseemly haste in setting up a website to sell memorabilia imo. The official files highlighted some peculiar behaviour imo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 17, 2017, 10:55:11 AM
They admitted to neglecting to ensure the safety of their children, which did them no favours imo. They demonstrated what many saw as unseemly haste in setting up a website to sell memorabilia imo. The official files highlighted some peculiar behaviour imo.
IYO is of little import in the grand scheme of things. I don't think your opinion damaged the McCanns pride and honour as much as the media's evisceration of them, nor Amaral's Book Of Blatant Bollocks.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 17, 2017, 11:17:30 AM
IYO is of little import in the grand scheme of things. I don't think your opinion damaged the McCanns pride and honour as much as the media's evisceration of them, nor Amaral's Book Of Blatant Bollocks.
My opinion of how the McCann's pride and honour were damaged are as valid as yours, nonetheless. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 17, 2017, 11:24:27 AM
My opinion of how the McCann's pride and honour were damaged are as valid as yours, nonetheless.
If you think your opinion of the McCanns damaged them as much as Amaral's or countless newspaper headlines then I think you may be suffering from a degree of self-importance - just my opinion of course. 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 17, 2017, 01:38:58 PM
If you think your opinion of the McCanns damaged them as much as Amaral's or countless newspaper headlines then I think you may be suffering from a degree of self-importance - just my opinion of course. 8(0(*
I think the things I listed may have caused others to look askance at them, not just me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 17, 2017, 02:00:31 PM
I think the things I listed may have caused others to look askance at them, not just me.
But not enough to damage their pride and honour, certainly not in the way Amaral and the media achieved. You and people like you who "look askance" at the McCanns usually confine your activities to internet backwaters like this one, easily overlooked and ignorable by both the McCanns and the public generally.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 17, 2017, 02:20:25 PM
But not enough to damage their pride and honour, certainly not in the way Amaral and the media achieved. You and people like you who "look askance" at the McCanns usually confine your activities to internet backwaters like this one, easily overlooked and ignorable by both the McCanns and the public generally.
Do you think people in the UK knew or cared what Amaral wrote? I don't.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 17, 2017, 03:02:03 PM
Do you think people in the UK knew or cared what Amaral wrote? I don't.
No, but I do think the people in Portugal (the country where Madeleine went missing) did. Without the people of Portugal on side and with their honour in ruins there it made the McCanns' search for Madeleine even more challenging than it already was. IN MY OPINION.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 17, 2017, 03:32:16 PM
No, but I do think the people in Portugal (the country where Madeleine went missing) did. Without the people of Portugal on side and with their honour in ruins there it made the McCanns' search for Madeleine even more challenging than it already was. IN MY OPINION.
I was appalled by some of the comments under this article about a child thought to be about five with whom communication was limited and difficult who was found wandering clad in pyjamas weighted down by a soiled nappy. http://www.dn.pt/sociedade/interior/crianca-encontrada-sozinha-e-de-pijama-junto-a-supermercado-na-amadora-8475273.html?
The criticism was huge against the parents, and it was only after about twenty odd comments that someone as disgusted as I was by that time wrote about the possibility the child had been found as he was ~ ie in a nappy at appx five and with communication difficulties ~ not as a result of neglect but because he was vulnerable.
I see the comments now number 112 ... so how that one panned out I don't know ... but although a small example it shows how many are ready to jump in with both feet without knowledge of the facts. I think in many ways that is what happened in Madeleine's case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 17, 2017, 05:33:20 PM
No, but I do think the people in Portugal (the country where Madeleine went missing) did. Without the people of Portugal on side and with their honour in ruins there it made the McCanns' search for Madeleine even more challenging than it already was. IN MY OPINION.
My opinion is that leaving their children unsupervised damaged their reputation in Portugal before Amaral wrote his book.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alfie on May 17, 2017, 05:54:00 PM
My opinion is that leaving their children unsupervised damaged their reputation in Portugal before Amaral wrote his book.
If in Portugal the act of leaving your children alone for 30 minutes at a time while you dine a 50 metres away is considered equally as damaging to one's reputation as the act of hiding your child's body and digging it up 23 days later to drive around in a car or stuff in a coffin then all I can say is - them Portuguese is a strange lot!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 18, 2017, 07:36:02 AM
If in Portugal the act of leaving your children alone for 30 minutes at a time while you dine a 50 metres away is considered equally as damaging to one's reputation as the act of hiding your child's body and digging it up 23 days later to drive around in a car or stuff in a coffin then all I can say is - them Portuguese is a strange lot!
You seem to see what they did as something minor to be shrugged off. Others don't see it like that. Some think the 'circus' wouldn't have happened if the parents had guarded their children.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on May 21, 2017, 06:50:08 PM
My opinion is that leaving their children unsupervised damaged their reputation in Portugal before Amaral wrote his book.
Yes, I guess it did for some. However, I haven't noticed many people commenting on who was actually looking after Amaral's young daughter who was supposedly staying with him while he was in a bar (according to his wife).
Whatever people's views on the child-minding issue, it still doesn't explain what then happened to her. Whatever anyone thinks of the parents, she is still a missing child, fate unknown.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 21, 2017, 07:05:03 PM
Yes, I guess it did for some. However, I haven't noticed many people commenting on who was actually looking after Amaral's young daughter who was supposedly staying with him while he was in a bar (according to his wife).
Whatever people's views on the child-minding issue, it still doesn't explain what then happened to her. Whatever anyone thinks of the parents, she is still a missing child, fate unknown.
Yes, I have often wondered about Amaral's daughter when he was drunk in that bar.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 22, 2017, 06:20:05 AM
Yes, I guess it did for some. However, I haven't noticed many people commenting on who was actually looking after Amaral's young daughter who was supposedly staying with him while he was in a bar (according to his wife).
Whatever people's views on the child-minding issue, it still doesn't explain what then happened to her. Whatever anyone thinks of the parents, she is still a missing child, fate unknown.
I was discussing whether the McCanns reputation was damaged in Portugal before Amaral wrote his book. My opinion is that it was.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 22, 2017, 12:12:01 PM
Where should they have looked? Once the areas had been checked by the GNR tracker dogs etc where were the McCanns suppose to look? What would have made you happy Miss Taken Identity?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 22, 2017, 12:51:07 PM
I was discussing whether the McCanns reputation was damaged in Portugal before Amaral wrote his book. My opinion is that it was.
I agree with that opinion but you have to ask the question regarding who allowed the repeated breaches of judicial secrecy which resulted in lurid headlines in the Portuguese press.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on May 22, 2017, 01:01:50 PM
I agree with that opinion but you have to ask the question regarding who allowed the repeated breaches of judicial secrecy which resulted in lurid headlines in the Portuguese press.
Only if you think that's what damaged their reputation in Portugal. Even if it was, no-one knows who did it so no-one can be blamed for 'allowing it'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 22, 2017, 07:44:34 PM
Besides, as you well know, I was referring to the self-imposed damage caused by their '....parenting skills'.
Police leaks, gossip and clash of cultures close in on McCanns Portuguese hostility towards the McCanns grows with every twist, reports CHRISTINA LAMB in Praia da Luz. • The Press • 18 Sep 2007
The two men in dark suits coming out of the Portimao restaurant adjusted their ties and jackets after what had clearly been a satisfying Friday lunch.
Guilhermino Encarnacao and his deputy, Goncalo Amaral, are the two Portuguese detectives heading the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann more than four months ago.
But their relaxed appearance belies the weight of international scrutiny their investigation is under— and the role their team has played in contributing to a propaganda war, with Gerry and Kate McCann in their sights.
Officially, Encarnacao was quick to condemn the press coverage. ‘‘There’s been far too much speculation in the press,’’ he said.
However, Jose Manuel Oliveira, who has covered the case since the beginning for the respected daily Diario de Noticias, said: ‘‘Who is responsible for all the information and counterinformation? It’s the police themselves.’’
Under Portuguese secrecy laws, police are forbidden from revealing details of an investigation.
Yet, as they struggle to cope with the whirlwind generated by ‘‘Caso Maddie’’, they have used a series of daily leaks to Portuguese journalists about supposed forensic evidence, diary extracts and tapped phone calls to insinuate that the couple were involved in the disappearance of their own daughter. https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/the-press/20070918/281921653668753
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 23, 2017, 05:26:55 AM
The upshot being that for whatever reason (leaks, gossip, clash of cultures) the McCanns were not well thought of in Portugal before Amaral had even thought of writing a book.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 23, 2017, 07:28:00 AM
Police leaks, gossip and clash of cultures close in on McCanns Portuguese hostility towards the McCanns grows with every twist, reports CHRISTINA LAMB in Praia da Luz. • The Press • 18 Sep 2007
The two men in dark suits coming out of the Portimao restaurant adjusted their ties and jackets after what had clearly been a satisfying Friday lunch.
Guilhermino Encarnacao and his deputy, Goncalo Amaral, are the two Portuguese detectives heading the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann more than four months ago.
But their relaxed appearance belies the weight of international scrutiny their investigation is under— and the role their team has played in contributing to a propaganda war, with Gerry and Kate McCann in their sights.
Officially, Encarnacao was quick to condemn the press coverage. ‘‘There’s been far too much speculation in the press,’’ he said.
However, Jose Manuel Oliveira, who has covered the case since the beginning for the respected daily Diario de Noticias, said: ‘‘Who is responsible for all the information and counterinformation? It’s the police themselves.’’
Under Portuguese secrecy laws, police are forbidden from revealing details of an investigation.
Yet, as they struggle to cope with the whirlwind generated by ‘‘Caso Maddie’’, they have used a series of daily leaks to Portuguese journalists about supposed forensic evidence, diary extracts and tapped phone calls to insinuate that the couple were involved in the disappearance of their own daughter. https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/the-press/20070918/281921653668753
Both sides leaked regularly, and we have been through all this before.
Have you forgotten the undeniable hostility towards the Portuguese, especially Amaral and the PJ in most sections of the UK press ?
Likewise , the well nigh bending over backwards to support the McCann's since the litigation against the Express ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 25, 2017, 01:34:46 AM
This must be one of the earliest news reports "Tapas for two ... then parents' nightmare began" https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/05/world.sandralaville
Interesting bit: "Their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, lay undisturbed in their cots beside the bed, making the absence of the child they call Maddy all the more haunting. Nothing appeared to have been stolen from the room, but the shutters seemed to have been forced, the window was open and the main door unlocked, according to the family."
The main door unlocked what does that mean?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 25, 2017, 01:55:33 AM
This must be one of the earliest news reports "Tapas for two ... then parents' nightmare began" https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/05/world.sandralaville
Interesting bit: "Their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, lay undisturbed in their cots beside the bed, making the absence of the child they call Maddy all the more haunting. Nothing appeared to have been stolen from the room, but the shutters seemed to have been forced, the window was open and the main door unlocked, according to the family."
The main door unlocked what does that mean?
The door was not double locked [deadlocked], but it was latched requiring a key to get in.
This is like, I suspect, the majority of homes in the UK. Most of us go out slamming the door behind us in the knowledge that a key is required to open the door.
Many of us, however, double lock our doors (deadlock) when we go away for a prolonged time.
On many UK doors, a little known fact is that the latched door lock can be opened using something most of us carry around every day. I dont think this is possible on a double (dead) locked door ... but I am not an expert!
So, it seems, the front door was effectively locked, even if not dead locked
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 25, 2017, 12:11:12 PM
I know that one journalist made ill considered remarks which may have offended Goncalo ... but one swallow does not a summer make.
I don't think it really equates with publishing unverifiable theses about the parents of a missing child.
That journalist was a very busy person;
Adjectives used by the British Press to describe Goncalo Amaral and/or the Portuguese police (Source: Factiva database)
53 articles: "boozy" or "boozer" (Examples) 418 articles: "disgraced, disgraceful, disgrace" (Examples) 440 articles: "outrage, outrageous" etc. 37 articles: "bungling" 23 articles: "Keystone cops" (or Kops) (or Keystone cretins) ("Keystone" cops has been used by English speaking people to describe bumbling or inept cops; based on old movies of the Keystone Cops. Extremely insulting articles.)
42 articles: "Goncalo Amaral" and "lunch" (includes all the "boozy lunch" "two hour lunch" etc. Many accuse him of "boozy three hour lunches" etc. Why is it newsworthy that a man eats lunch?) 45 articles: "inept" 220 articles: "sacked" or "fired" (Note: Amaral was TRANSFERRED off the Maddie case and then chose to quit.) 49 articles: "hampered" "hampering" "hindered" "hindering" (the investigation); 43 articles: "outburst" (regarding his statement re: McCanns and the British police) 43 articles: "shameful" "shame" "shamed" 14 articles: "evil" 146 articles: "torture" "tortured" "attacked" (re: Leonor Cipriano) http://newsoutlines.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/adjectives-used-by-british-press-to.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 25, 2017, 01:37:37 PM
Goncalo Amaral had his own axe to grind. It completely defeats me for why he was allowed to coordinate this case in the first place. He apparently offered to do so when he was bout to take a holiday. So why did he do this?
He must have thought that all of his birthdays had come, and was about to prove that yet another Mother had murdered her child, proving that he was right in the first instance, when in fact there never was any evidence of such.
This again is quite simple to me. Amaral was on the run and had to in some way excuse his diabolical conclusions, bearing in mind that he hadn't yet been called to Court.
I have no real thoughts on who this man is. Probably an intellectual moron who never needed to be anything other. Probably still a Fascist, but not exactly his fault.
Just a very sorry tale of the damage that he did.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on May 25, 2017, 03:14:58 PM
Adjectives used by the British Press to describe Goncalo Amaral and/or the Portuguese police (Source: Factiva database)
53 articles: "boozy" or "boozer" (Examples) 418 articles: "disgraced, disgraceful, disgrace" (Examples) 440 articles: "outrage, outrageous" etc. 37 articles: "bungling" 23 articles: "Keystone cops" (or Kops) (or Keystone cretins) ("Keystone" cops has been used by English speaking people to describe bumbling or inept cops; based on old movies of the Keystone Cops. Extremely insulting articles.)
42 articles: "Goncalo Amaral" and "lunch" (includes all the "boozy lunch" "two hour lunch" etc. Many accuse him of "boozy three hour lunches" etc. Why is it newsworthy that a man eats lunch?) 45 articles: "inept" 220 articles: "sacked" or "fired" (Note: Amaral was TRANSFERRED off the Maddie case and then chose to quit.) 49 articles: "hampered" "hampering" "hindered" "hindering" (the investigation); 43 articles: "outburst" (regarding his statement re: McCanns and the British police) 43 articles: "shameful" "shame" "shamed" 14 articles: "evil" 146 articles: "torture" "tortured" "attacked" (re: Leonor Cipriano) http://newsoutlines.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/adjectives-used-by-british-press-to.html
I must admit, I like all those adjectives, but if one looks hard enough there must be some good bits.
Surely?
TBH he destroyed himself even before the Madeleine case with all 'the stuff' he made up about Leonor and Joao and Joana ... and the torture .... and of course his perjury in Court
1) He had no proof that Joana had died. 2) The blood he claimed was Joanas was not even tested to see if it was human or pig blood 3) He claimed that Joana had found her Mum Leonor having sex with her brother Joao ... so they had to kill her. No proof at all, just from his imagination 4) He claimed that they had cut up Joanas body and fed it to the pigs. No proof, just from his imjagination. And of course no-one could prove either way, cos no traces left. But a damned good way of stopping people searching for a living (or dead) Joana IMO
There is more but I will leave it there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on May 25, 2017, 03:25:41 PM
I must admit, I like all those adjectives, but if one looks hard enough there must be some good bits.
Surely?
TBH he destroyed himself even before the Madeleine case with all 'the stuff' he made up about Leonor and Joao and Joana ... and the torture .... and of course his perjury in Court
1) He had no proof that Joana had died. 2) The blood he claimed was Joanas was not even tested to see if it was human or pig blood 3) He claimed that Joana had found her Mum Leonor having sex with her brother Joao ... so they had to kill her. No proof at all, just from his imagination 4) He claimed that they had cut up Joanas body and fed it to the pigs. No proof, just from his imjagination. And of course no-one could prove either way, cos no traces left. But a damned good way of stopping people searching for a living (or dead) Joana IMO
There is more but I will leave it there.
Some of those labels are (unjustly) pejorative when applied to the whole of the Portuguese input to the first, shelved, enquiry.
To be clear, there was some (genuinely) excellent work put in on the ground by Portuguese officers, and also the Portuguese dog-handlers, who first looked for Madeleine.
But an investigation of honest endeavour was (badly) betrayed by poor leadership and inept processing of information gathered during the course of the investigation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on May 25, 2017, 03:27:53 PM
Goncalo Amaral had his own axe to grind. It completely defeats me for why he was allowed to coordinate this case in the first place. He apparently offered to do so when he was bout to take a holiday. So why did he do this?
He must have thought that all of his birthdays had come, and was about to prove that yet another Mother had murdered her child, proving that he was right in the first instance, when in fact there never was any evidence of such.
This again is quite simple to me. Amaral was on the run and had to in some way excuse his diabolical conclusions, bearing in mind that he hadn't yet been called to Court.
I have no real thoughts on who this man is. Probably an intellectual moron who never needed to be anything other. Probably still a Fascist, but not exactly his fault.
Just a very sorry tale of the damage that he did.
If the McCanns had spent tbeir energies cooperating fully with the police investigation instead of demeaning it constantly then some progress could have been made but their actions only attracted suspicion and diverted valuable resources which could have been deployed elsewhere.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on May 25, 2017, 03:30:50 PM
If the McCanns had spent tbeir energies cooperating fully with the police investigation instead of demeaning it constantly then some progress could have been made but their actions only attracted suspicion and diverted valuable resources which could have been deployed elsewhere.
If the McCanns had meekly submitted to the lies rained down upon them in the form of inaccurate presentation of forensic results (in particular) they would now be in a Portuguese jail and the case would be 'solved'.
Is that what you mean?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on May 25, 2017, 03:31:25 PM
I must admit, I like all those adjectives, but if one looks hard enough there must be some good bits.
Surely?
TBH he destroyed himself even before the Madeleine case with all 'the stuff' he made up about Leonor and Joao and Joana ... and the torture .... and of course his perjury in Court
1) He had no proof that Joana had died. 2) The blood he claimed was Joanas was not even tested to see if it was human or pig blood 3) He claimed that Joana had found her Mum Leonor having sex with her brother Joao ... so they had to kill her. No proof at all, just from his imagination 4) He claimed that they had cut up Joanas body and fed it to the pigs. No proof, just from his imjagination. And of course no-one could prove either way, cos no traces left. But a damned good way of stopping people searching for a living (or dead) Joana IMO
There is more but I will leave it there.
John Cipriano can be seen on video enacting how he cut up his niece and fed her to the swine so let's stop the crap Sadie. Amaral might have crossed a few lines before he put the Ciprianos away but in my opinion he was spot on. Whether he was right to pursue the McCanns to tbe extent he and the prosecutors did is still open to debate.
ps you still haven't grasped the fact that Amaral wasn't in charge but was taking orders from above.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on May 25, 2017, 03:34:02 PM
If the McCanns had meekly submitted to the lies rained down upon them in the form of inaccurate presentation of forensic results (in particular) they would now be in a Portuguese jail and the case would be 'solved'.
Is that what you mean?
Kate's lawyer must have doubted them and panicked when push came to shove otherwise he wouldn't have advised them not to answer the questions put to them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 25, 2017, 03:52:46 PM
Kate's lawyer must have doubted them and panicked when push came to shove otherwise he wouldn't have advised them not to answer the questions put to them.
There are times when your absence from this Forum is a really good idea.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on May 25, 2017, 03:57:22 PM
How safe is any 'confession' under torture or duress?
Exactly.
Nothing there to prove anything about the Ciprianos being responsible for Joana vanishing. Just erm.. 'wind' from Amaral and Cristavao. And lurid imaginations.
And nothing to prove that she is dead either.
I believe she is alive, as Madeleine is. IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 25, 2017, 05:29:42 PM
I must admit, I like all those adjectives, but if one looks hard enough there must be some good bits.
Surely?
TBH he destroyed himself even before the Madeleine case with all 'the stuff' he made up about Leonor and Joao and Joana ... and the torture .... and of course his perjury in Court
1) He had no proof that Joana had died. 2) The blood he claimed was Joanas was not even tested to see if it was human or pig blood 3) He claimed that Joana had found her Mum Leonor having sex with her brother Joao ... so they had to kill her. No proof at all, just from his imagination 4) He claimed that they had cut up Joanas body and fed it to the pigs. No proof, just from his imjagination. And of course no-one could prove either way, cos no traces left. But a damned good way of stopping people searching for a living (or dead) Joana IMO
There is more but I will leave it there.
Your response doesn't surprise me in the least.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 25, 2017, 05:45:49 PM
I must admit, I like all those adjectives, but if one looks hard enough there must be some good bits.
Surely?
TBH he destroyed himself even before the Madeleine case with all 'the stuff' he made up about Leonor and Joao and Joana ... and the torture .... and of course his perjury in Court
1) He had no proof that Joana had died. 2) The blood he claimed was Joanas was not even tested to see if it was human or pig blood 3) He claimed that Joana had found her Mum Leonor having sex with her brother Joao ... so they had to kill her. No proof at all, just from his imagination 4) He claimed that they had cut up Joanas body and fed it to the pigs. No proof, just from his imjagination. And of course no-one could prove either way, cos no traces left. But a damned good way of stopping people searching for a living (or dead) Joana IMO
There is more but I will leave it there.
Maybe he had been reading of the Hosein brothers and Muriel McKay ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 25, 2017, 05:57:53 PM
Innocent parents of a missing child refusing to answer the most simplistic of police questions is unheard of, there was obviously something behind Kate's refusal to assist the police. If she was truly innocent she had nothing to fear.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 25, 2017, 08:30:01 PM
Innocent parents of a missing child refusing to answer the most simplistic of police questions is unheard of, there was obviously something behind Kate's refusal to assist the police. If she was truly innocent she had nothing to fear.
All In Your Opinion, of course.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ferryman on May 25, 2017, 08:34:15 PM
Why else would a lawyer advise the parents of a missing child not to answer police questions? The entire situation was far from normal imo.
Because the questions might be -- in the instance we are talking about, were -- loaded and either incompetently researched or (worse) corruptly delivered?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 25, 2017, 08:59:39 PM
Because the questions might be -- in the instance we are talking about, were -- loaded and either incompetently researched or (worse) corruptly delivered?
In Your Opinion, for God's sake. Sheesh, when will you ever learn?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on May 25, 2017, 10:20:51 PM
If the McCanns had spent tbeir energies cooperating fully with the police investigation instead of demeaning it constantly then some progress could have been made but their actions only attracted suspicion and diverted valuable resources which could have been deployed elsewhere.
Deleted. Eleanor has said it before me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on May 25, 2017, 10:38:50 PM
Innocent parents of a missing child refusing to answer the most simplistic of police questions is unheard of, there was obviously something behind Kate's refusal to assist the police. If she was truly innocent she had nothing to fear.
Well I think that Leonor Ciprianao and her brother, Joao, were very likely totally innocent
But somehow she copped it from Amaral and Cristavao. It seems to that there was a good bit of embelishment here and a good bit of embellishment there.
No proof that leonor and her brother were having sex and Joana caught them at it,so they had to murder her. Not a whisper of proof or intelligence even !
No proof that the blood on the wall nor in the fridge was Joanas. It was not even tested to check that it was human blood !
No proof, nor intelligence that Joana was dead let alone that she was fed to the pigs ... and of course no identifiable remains. Same as there would hvae been no identifiable remains had Madeleine beeen cremated with the English woman lying in her coffin in Luz church.
Both those scenarios have the benefit of persuading people to forget looking for the missing girl ...and also with no remains, the benefit of not being provable that Amarals theory was incorrect.
In the circumstances Kate would have been crazy to answer those questions IMO
AIMHO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Benice on May 26, 2017, 09:14:02 AM
Innocent parents of a missing child refusing to answer the most simplistic of police questions is unheard of, there was obviously something behind Kate's refusal to assist the police. If she was truly innocent she had nothing to fear.
Are you being serious Angelo? Why would any innocent person, in the full knowledge that the police wanted to arrest them for a crime which they didn't commit, actually want to assist them to do that very thing? They would have to be crazy!!
As you obviously disagree with it - why do you think her Portuguese lawyer (the expert) was wrong to give Kate the advice which he did?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on May 26, 2017, 09:16:01 AM
Are you being serious Angelo? Why would any innocent person, in the full knowledge that the police wanted to arrest them for a crime which they didn't commit, actually want to assist them to do that very thing? They would have to be crazy!!
As you obviously disagree with it - why do you think her Portuguese lawyer (the expert) was wrong to give Kate the advice which he did?
The full knowledge? Please explain where this full knowledge came from?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on May 26, 2017, 02:04:32 PM
The full knowledge? Please explain where this full knowledge came from?
Well I soon had a pretty good idea 'what was about', with all the slurs and disinformation that was flooding out. I was aghast by it .. and when I discovered about what happened in the Joana Cipriano case. With warnings to the Mccanns from Leandro (brave man) about what happened to Leonor, I immediately feared for The Mccanns.
Little doubt in my mind that the British Diplomats in Portugal took a special interest based upon what had happened in that case .... and in the Michael Cook case. His torture was horrendous ... and of course, it was discussed in The House of Commons and recorded in Hansard.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1992/jun/09/mr-michael-cook Do read this, it is an eye opener, altho it might not have involved Amaral. That we dont know.
I think I was the first on the internet to find out above.
Based on the way Michael Cook and Leonor were treated by Portuguese so called "Justice", I too think that kate was very wise to not answer the questions. Her solicitors advice seems well founded to me.
AIMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on May 26, 2017, 02:11:01 PM
I here hear that Katie Hopkins has been let go , namely sacked by LBC.
Apparently there were loud cheers in the LBC Newsroom.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 26, 2017, 02:25:09 PM
Well I soon had a pretty good idea 'what was about', with all the slurs and disinformation that was flooding out. I was aghast by it .. and when I discovered about what happened in the Joana Cipriano case. With warnings to the Mccanns from Leandro (brave man) about what happened to Leonor, I immediately feared for The Mccanns.
Little doubt in my mind that the British Diplomats in Portugal took a special interest based upon what had happened in that case .... and in the Michael Cook case. His torture was horrendous ... and of course, it was discussed in The House of Commons and recorded in Hansard.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1992/jun/09/mr-michael-cook Do read this, it is an eye opener, altho it might not have involved Amaral. That we dont know.
I think I was the first on the internet to find out above.
Based on the way Michael Cook and Leonor were treated by Portuguese so called "Justice", I too think that kate was very wise to not answer the questions. Her solicitors advice seems well founded to me.
AIMO
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Mr. Mark Lennox-Boyd, does not appear to agree with you, based upon multiple visits to Mr Cook.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 26, 2017, 02:28:14 PM
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Mr. Mark Lennox-Boyd, does not appear to agree with you, based upon multiple visits to Mr Cook.
Oh Yeh,
When the tyre marks from the Red car seen at the scene did not match Mike Cooks car ... and the so called witness rescinded his statement after the case had been fouind against Michael Cook? Also when it was found that Michael Cooks red car did not have the necessary ground clearance to go to the place where Rachaels body was found.
Then the stepfather known for his bad temper, did have a high ground clearance Red car (4 wheel drive IIRC) ... and pine needles like the ones where Rachel was found were found in his car. The locals suspected him. The stepfather committed suicide exactly one year later.
Also the one policeman who had been earmarked to verify that he had witnessed Michael Cook admitting that he did it, refused to say that in court. Brave man
And Michaels colleagues confirmed that he had been at work with them at the operative time.
Dont forget the most dreadful torture:
Hanging him upside down from a window and beating the soles of his feet Smashing his teeth in Putting a gun in his mouth and threatening him Keeping him without toilet facilities so that he went into Court in a filthy and beaten up state
All because he wouldn't admit to something he didn't do.
And finally, let us not forget the two lawyers who because of the inconsistencies and injustices of the case became interested several months later and delved deeply. It is said that they had possession of documents which showed that then PJ had "arranged things" to fabricate a case against Michael Cook, and were going to proceed with them.
Let us not forget that they had an 'Accident" in the mountains with their car. One was killed and one was seriously injured. This was before they were able to proceed with the case in the Courts. Needless to say, their evidence never came to Court.
No-one else was prepared to take it up. Unsurprisingly
SIL, do you really think this case was proceeeded with in a proper manner? Thank God, that Kate had diplomatic protection and the World was watching.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 26, 2017, 06:41:04 PM
When the tyre marks from the Red car seen at the scene did not match Mike Cooks car ... and the so called witness rescinded his statement after the case had been fouind against Michael Cook? Also when it was found that Michael Cooks red car did not have the necessary ground clearance to go to the place where Rachaels body was found.
Then the stepfather known for his bad temper, did have a high ground clearance Red car (4 wheel drive IIRC) ... and pine needles like the ones where Rachel was found were found in his car. The locals suspected him. The stepfather committed suicide exactly one year later.
Also the one policeman who had been earmarked to verify that he had witnessed Michael Cook admitting that he did it, refused to say that in court. Brave man
And Michaels colleagues confirmed that he had been at work with them at the operative time.
Dont forget the most dreadful torture:
Hanging him upside down from a window and beating the soles of his feet Smashing his teeth in Putting a gun in his mouth and threatening him Keeping him without toilet facilities so that he went into Court in a filthy and beaten up state
All because he wouldn't admit to something he didn't do.
And finally, let us not forget the two lawyers who because of the inconsistencies and injustices of the case became interested several months later and delved deeply. It is said that they had possession of documents which showed that then PJ had "arranged things" to fabricate a case against Michael Cook, and were going to proceed with them.
Let us not forget that they had an 'Accident" in the mountains with their car. One was killed and one was seriously injured. This was before they were able to proceed with the case in the Courts. Needless to say, their evidence never came to Court.
No-one else was prepared to take it up. Unsurprisingly
SIL, do you really think this case was proceeeded with in a proper manner? Thank God, that Kate had diplomatic protection and the World was watching.
I have no doubt that Kate and Gerry's companions had researched the implication of participating in reconstructions of crimes organised by the Policia Judiciaria ... if they read in Hansard what had happened to Mr Cook I think it may have concentrated their minds wonderfully.
Quote Hon. Members may be horrified to learn that, much earlier than that parade—indeed, the day after the body was found—Cook was shown to the gardener by the local police, and the gardener said that Cook was not the man whom he had seen on the fateful day in question. He changed his story. Clearly, the police case needed boosting, so the most incredible thing happened: a reconstruction of the crime was forced on Cook.
The police said that, in the reconstruction, Cook had shown them the exact positions in which they had found Rachel's school bag and shoes. They said that those items had been thrown by Cook from a fast-moving car over many kilometres on a country road down which he can seldom have been before, some weeks after the alleged event. Even the police blushed when they told that one in court. http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1992/jun/09/mr-michael-cook
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on May 26, 2017, 06:52:11 PM
I have no doubt that Kate and Gerry's companions had researched the implication of participating in reconstructions of crimes organised by the Policia Judiciaria ... if they read in Hansard what had happened to Mr Cook I think it may have concentrated their minds wonderfully.
Quote Hon. Members may be horrified to learn that, much earlier than that parade—indeed, the day after the body was found—Cook was shown to the gardener by the local police, and the gardener said that Cook was not the man whom he had seen on the fateful day in question. He changed his story. Clearly, the police case needed boosting, so the most incredible thing happened: a reconstruction of the crime was forced on Cook.
The police said that, in the reconstruction, Cook had shown them the exact positions in which they had found Rachel's school bag and shoes. They said that those items had been thrown by Cook from a fast-moving car over many kilometres on a country road down which he can seldom have been before, some weeks after the alleged event. Even the police blushed when they told that one in court. http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1992/jun/09/mr-michael-cook
You are aware that statements in parliament need less proof then elsewhere due to parliamentary privilege?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 26, 2017, 07:27:28 PM
When the tyre marks from the Red car seen at the scene did not match Mike Cooks car ... and the so called witness rescinded his statement after the case had been fouind against Michael Cook? Also when it was found that Michael Cooks red car did not have the necessary ground clearance to go to the place where Rachaels body was found.
Then the stepfather known for his bad temper, did have a high ground clearance Red car (4 wheel drive IIRC) ... and pine needles like the ones where Rachel was found were found in his car. The locals suspected him. The stepfather committed suicide exactly one year later.
Also the one policeman who had been earmarked to verify that he had witnessed Michael Cook admitting that he did it, refused to say that in court. Brave man
And Michaels colleagues confirmed that he had been at work with them at the operative time.
Dont forget the most dreadful torture:
Hanging him upside down from a window and beating the soles of his feet Smashing his teeth in Putting a gun in his mouth and threatening him Keeping him without toilet facilities so that he went into Court in a filthy and beaten up state
All because he wouldn't admit to something he didn't do.
And finally, let us not forget the two lawyers who because of the inconsistencies and injustices of the case became interested several months later and delved deeply. It is said that they had possession of documents which showed that then PJ had "arranged things" to fabricate a case against Michael Cook, and were going to proceed with them.
Let us not forget that they had an 'Accident" in the mountains with their car. One was killed and one was seriously injured. This was before they were able to proceed with the case in the Courts. Needless to say, their evidence never came to Court.
No-one else was prepared to take it up. Unsurprisingly
SIL, do you really think this case was proceeeded with in a proper manner? Thank God, that Kate had diplomatic protection and the World was watching.
To repeat "The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Mr. Mark Lennox-Boyd, does not appear to agree with you, based upon multiple visits to Mr Cook."
His reply is in your link.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 26, 2017, 08:34:22 PM
First the Auditors, now a director resigns from the Find Madeleine Fund;
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 28, 2017, 12:35:02 PM
For Information:
Some of you will have noticed that a new moderator has been appointed to replace Shining in Luz who is taking a break from the task. Please afford the usual courtesies to this new moderator as he settles in to the job.
John Senior Editor
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on June 02, 2017, 08:47:01 AM
Electrician Daniel Bevis, 22, was with friends when he spotted the tot near the Colossus ride at Thorpe Park, Surrey.
He said: “We were so shocked that someone could leave a kid. What’s worse is that security said it happens a lot.
“It’s horrifying — like the parents had no regard for their child. Anyone could have taken her.
Baby abandoned at Thorpe park
The baby was left in her pram which was abandoned near a bin in the Surrey theme park
“We stood with her for ten to 15 minutes. No one turned up so we called security. They took her to first aid then the parents arrived. They’d been gone over an hour.
“We confronted them — a mum, dad and three other kids, who’d been on the ride — but they had nothing to say.”
Thorpe Park said staff were at the scene within two minutes on Monday.
The family, thought to be from West London, claimed their 11-year-old daughter was looking after the tot.
Surrey Police said: “The family’s home force has been notified for a follow-up.”
A social services source said the incident has been referred to the family’s local authority.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on June 03, 2017, 10:40:49 PM
It is now being reported there is a major incident in London.
London Bridge closed along with Tube Station.
A cab driver is speaking on LBC.
He has seen several injured people and bodies, along the bridge on both sides.
A man has been seen with a knife.
It is being described by police as a major incident.
Other witnesses coming forward.
Armed police are in attendance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 04, 2017, 10:40:14 AM
Are we right to think we should continue with our normal activities in light of the risks we seem to be facing? Is it brave or foolish? If people started avoiding cities and crowded venues would the government have to take more action?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 04, 2017, 11:07:29 AM
Are we right to think we should continue with our normal activities in light of the risks we seem to be facing? Is it brave or foolish? If people started avoiding cities and crowded venues would the government have to take more action?
Difficult problem. Individual risk is minimal, so sensible to continue life as before. Terrorists generally want to disrupt society by any means possible. Over-response by government plays into their hands by causing even more disruption.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 04, 2017, 12:23:58 PM
Difficult problem. Individual risk is minimal, so sensible to continue life as before. Terrorists generally want to disrupt society by any means possible. Over-response by government plays into their hands by causing even more disruption.
I'm quite security conscious having been aware of threats for many years. In the 1970's I had to warn my children to beware of unattended bags and packages when the Baader-Meinhof were a threat to our troops and their families in Germany.
On our return to the UK we began to be targeted by the I.R.A. and again I had to warn my children to be security aware.
In this current climate there seem to be no specific targets but the risk is higher in crowded places.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 04, 2017, 12:35:06 PM
I'm quite security conscious having been aware of threats for many years. In the 1970's I had to warn my children to beware of unattended bags and packages when the Baader-Meinhof were a threat to our troops and their families in Germany.
On our return to the UK we began to be targeted by the I.R.A. and again I had to warn my children to be security aware.
In this current climate there seem to be no specific targets but the risk is higher in crowded places.
Unfortunately that includes just about everywhere - though the risk to any particular place is very low.
In the absence of any specific aims by the current batch of terrorists, it is difficult to bring this sort of action to any sort of conclusion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 07, 2017, 06:00:20 PM
Unfortunately that includes just about everywhere - though the risk to any particular place is very low.
In the absence of any specific aims by the current batch of terrorists, it is difficult to bring this sort of action to any sort of conclusion.
Oh they have aims!... this is a global attack !here is a couple of views from Muslims (In case I get accused of being a rascist or xenophobic. and have my posts swiped).
Theresa May wants to talk about extremism? Let’s start with our ties with the Saudis BY: Moni Mohsin While western leaders have castigated Muslims for not doing more to rein in radicals, they have been cosying up to the propagators of jihad Tuesday 6 June 2017 17.53 BST Last modified on Tuesday 6 June 2017 17.59 BST Two years ago, while researching a book on migration, I visited West Java. One day, while driving through the uplands of Subang, I saw, among the acres of tea and coffee plantations, a huge white edifice. At first I thought it was a mosque: it had a big dome and minarets. But as we drew nearer, I realised it was a cluster of several buildings. When I quizzed my driver, he said that it was indeed a mosque and the buildings attached to it comprised a boarding school. Before I could ask what such an obviously expensive complex was doing in a rural backwater, he added that it was a Saudi-funded establishment. It was one of many, he said, that had cropped up all over West Java in recent years. Did he know anyone who attended that school? He was not local to the area but, he said, near his own village, a similar Saudi-funded school had appeared a while back. Impressed by its spacious grounds and imposing building, he had moved his 10-year-old son there, but within a few weeks he had hastily returned him to his ramshackle old village school. His son had begun, he reported, to express some alarming ideas about “true Islam” and berate his Muslim parents for their easygoing ways. “You mean it was a madrasa?” I asked him. “You know the word?” Yes, I know the word. Originally meaning a seminary for learning the Qur’an and subjects such as philosophy and mathematics, the word “madrasa” has assumed darker connotations in my country of birth, Pakistan. To be fair, a small minority are still that – ordinary schools – but most of Pakistan’s 15,000 to 40,000 madrasas, with a student body of almost 2 million (according to the BBC), are incubators of radicalism where young, impressionable boys from poor homes are sent ostensibly to receive free education and food but in fact to be instructed in hardline Wahhabism (a strict version of Sunni Islam practised in Saudi Arabia) as per the instructions of their financiers and organisers, the Saudis. By the time they “graduate”, they are fully fledged jihadists and recruited as foot soldiers by banned terrorist organisations such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, which orchestrated the Mumbai attacks in 2008, or Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, which targeted Sri Lankan cricketers in Lahore in 2009, or indeed Tehreek-e-Taliban, which attacked a school in Peshawar in 2014, murdering 132 schoolchildren. This infrastructure of jihad, conceived, organised and financed by Saudis, has been exported all over the Muslim world to systematically destroy plural, liberal traditions of Islam and replace them with Wahhabism. In the Philippines, it has spawned Abu Sayyaf, designated a terrorist organisation by the UN and UK, among others.
In postwar Kosovo, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states have financed the construction of hundreds of mosques, Qur’an schools and visits by preachers to gradually undermine the tolerant, liberal Islam bequeathed by the Ottomans. In the Saudi-sponsored madrasas of Afghanistan, Islamic extremists from Malaysia, Thailand, Chechnya and central Asia have received instruction in hardline Islam.
Wahhabism made inroads into Pakistan in the early 80s, when I was a schoolgirl in Lahore. I remember when it became mandatory for female newscasters to cover their heads. Mullahs began appearing on television insisting women should confine themselves to their homes. Dance was banned. Cinemas closed down. Someone scrawled a sign on a wall near my house declaring Shias (a minority Muslim sect) to be kafirs (unbelievers). Now the signs go further: they incite believers to kill Shias. And indeed, over the past 20 years, thousands have been killed.
Two of my cousins, prominent Shia men in their districts, were gunned down in broad daylight by a Saudi-backed Sunni terrorist organisation called Sipah-e-Sahaba. Ahmedis (another minority deemed apostates by Wahhabis) and Christians have fared even worse. They have frequently been massacred in their places of worship; those who could afford to do so have left the country. Ancient Sufi shrines, the last strongholds of a liberal Islam, have been bombed up and down the country. In February, a grenade and suicide bomb at a shrine in Sehwan, Sindh, killed at least 88 people and injured more than 250. Anyone who resists or criticises – activists, journalists, religious leaders, lawyers, politicians, artists – has been silenced.
And all this time, while castigating us for not doing more to rein in radical Islam, western leaders have been laying out the red carpet for Saudi royals. While performing sword dances with their Saudi hosts and pledging undying friendship, they have sold billions of dollars worth of arms to them.
So yes, Theresa May, let’s, by all means, have a “difficult conversation” with Muslims. I entirely agree: “enough is enough” and there has been “far too much tolerance of extremism”. I loathe the killers as much as you, but please let’s not confine ourselves only to the foot soldiers. When we converse, let’s be honest and even-handed for once. Let’s start by making public the findings of the report commissioned by your Conservative predecessor, David Cameron, into the funding of jihadi groups in the UK. Instead of regulating cyberspace, why not regulate the flow of funds from Saudi Arabia into the UK? Until you are prepared to do that, Mrs May, let’s not waste our breath on meaningless conversations.
And another piece:
'Get them off the street' Muslim leader demands terror glorifiers are immediately detained MUSLIMS glorifying terrorist attacks need to be immediately locked up, according to the leader of a Muslim organisation. By Chris Campbell PUBLISHED: 08:35, Tue, Jun 6, 2017 | UPDATED: 10:18, Tue, Jun 6, 2017 Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of the Ramadhan Foundation, said those voicing support for extremism were out in public “hurling their abuse”. Mr Shafiq added the police and terrorist prevention agencies should step in to put an end to the “glorification” of “barbaric acts” and not leave it to Muslim communities. Speaking on the Today programme on BBC Radio 4, he said terrorist sympathisers should not be left to “roam our streets”. He said: “You can’t point the finger at the Muslim community as the Prime Minister did and say we Muslims are too tolerant of Islamic extremism when actually it’s the society and its the agencies that are there to protect us from these terrorists are allowing these terrorist to They’re out there. They’ve been outside mosques, they’ve been out there outside Edgware Road and other parts of the country hurling their abuse.” Asked if Muslims who hurl that abuse should be “locked up”, he added: “If you glorify terrorism, if you glorify the barbaric crimes which Isis have been involved in then the law should take its course and you should be held accountable.” The number of potential UK-based terrorists on the radar of the British security services is as high as 23,000, it has emerged. The figure is more than six times the figure previously released by the Home Office at the time of last month's Manchester bombing. roam our streets. Then, it was revealed the security services had 500 live investigations into more than 3,000 suspected radical jihadis, including about 400 people who have remarkably been allowed to return to our shores after fighting with terror group Islamic State in Syria. But, it has since emerged a further 20,000 radical Islamists have been considered a "person of interest" to the security services at anyone time, according to a security services source. It is not clear over which timescale the figure relates to. But the news has led to fears there are simply not enough resources for our security forces and counter terror police to monitor all their activities at anyone time.
And now can we please get back to discussing the invasion of young single males (all suni muslims) from Asia and Africa calling themselves 'refugess and child refufees. And the celebrity luvvies who demand we lose our civil rights to accomodate these parasites to humanity causing mayhem and slaughter in many countries.
That is the answer to the question, what can we do to stop them... well remove human rights, bring in more laws before you know it we will be advised to wear coloured stars to gain access certain public places! No I aint kidding. Fear is the best weapon governments have to control us. candle light vigils are cute for those to go and cry enmass... sadly this display does nothing to these junkie jihadies, they rather enjoy it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on June 11, 2017, 10:30:08 AM
Now May is on the way out, I wonder if any more money will be given to OG.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 11, 2017, 11:25:04 AM
Now May is on the way out, I wonder if any more money will be given to OG.
I would demand justification from Ruth Davidson if this was the case.
Maddie should be lumped in with the other 'missing' people's families files, who have to bear their agony in private without having 'loadsamunny' to search themselves. AND they don't get aniversary media coverage. But then the didn't waste money chasing more money, and trying to aportion blame onto others.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on June 11, 2017, 11:38:25 AM
Note to all members:
We have had harmony on the forum recently which is the way it should be. Any member who attempts to disrupt debate should be in no doubt that they will be sanctioned heavily.
Moderators please take note! TY
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 11, 2017, 11:42:16 AM
Now May is on the way out, I wonder if any more money will be given to OG.
I wondered the same.
Hopefully anyway, the investigation will be completed by September/October this year. I just hope they have enough evidence to prosecute.
I have no inside info, but last time I phoned SY with info, i was told that they are no longer looking for information about the perp., but are wanting info about where Madeleine is.
To me, that means they know who the perp is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 11, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
Hopefully anyway, the investigation will be completed by September/October this year. I just hope they have enough evidence to prosecute.
I have no inside info, but last time I phoned SY with info, i was told that they are no longer looking for information about the perp., but are wanting info about where Madeleine is.
To me, that means they know who the perp is.
But to be kind by saying please do not contact us again with information unless it is important re the the location of Maddie-i.e no time wasters please?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on June 13, 2017, 01:52:13 PM
Kansas prisoner released after 17 years behind bars as researchers find his lookalike
Richard Jones (right) was freed from prison after researchers tracked down Ricky (left), and proved that eyewitness reports of a robbery were insufficient evidence
Harriet Alexander, new york 12 JUNE 2017 • 2:31PM
An inmate at a Kansas prison has been released after 17 years behind bars for a crime he did not commit, after researchers tracked down his lookalike.
Richard Anthony Jones was sent to prison for a robbery in 1999 in Roeland Park, Kansas.
There was no DNA evidence or fingerprints linking him to the crime scene, and at trial Mr Jones said that he was with his girlfriend and other family members in Kansas City on the day of the robbery.
But he was convicted on eyewitness accounts, and sentenced to 19 years.
Mr Jones said that he began to despair that he would ever be released from jail, after repeated efforts to appeal against his sentence.
"All my appeals had been denied. It has been a rough ride," he said.
In 2015 he told researchers from the Midwest Innocence Project - a group that aids wrongly convicted prisoners - about a man called Ricky he had heard about. Mr Jones had been told by fellow inmates that he looked identical to Ricky.
Researchers finally managed to track Ricky down, and discovered that he lived within 10 miles of the crime scene.
"When I saw the picture of my double it all made sense to me," he said.
Mr Jones' lawyers then showed the two men's photographs to the victim, two eyewitnesses, and the prosecutor in the original case. None of them could tell the two apart.
A judge agreed and ordered that Mr Jones be released, with the prisoner finally walking free on Thursday.
“Richard Jones has presented sufficient evidence to meet the under of manifest injustice (under Kansas law),” his lawyers argued in their motion seeking his release.
“Mr Jones was convicted solely on eyewitness testimony that has been proven to be inherently flawed and unreliable.”
Mr Jones said finding a photo of the other man was a "needle in a haystack moment".
“I don't believe in luck, I believe I was blessed,” Mr Jones told the Kansas City Star.
No criminal case has been filed against his double, who gave evidence at Mr Jones's robbery hearing and denied committing the crime.
A lawyer working on his case said the team were "floored by how much" Mr Jones and his double looked alike.
Mr Jones told the paper that he was now adjusting to life outside of jail and was happy to be back with his children.
"Everybody has a doppelgänger," said Alice Craig, Mr Jones' lawyer. "Luckily we found his." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/12/kansas-prisoner-released-17-years-behind-bars-researchers-find/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on June 13, 2017, 03:35:48 PM
But to be kind by saying please do not contact us again with information unless it is important re the the location of Maddie-i.e no time wasters please?
Response shown long enough, so deleted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on June 17, 2017, 11:20:57 PM
A little over a month since the world’s press went into overdrive commemorating the 10 years since Madeleine McCann vanished during a family holiday in Portugal, campaigners doggedly researching the case insist it has been “pretty much solved”.
It is simply a question of doing away with the “expensive farce” that Operation Grange - the British police investigation into the mystery -“has become”, and opening the field to an “unlimited remit”.
Volunteers running The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann (CMoMM) forum contend that “ten years of the UK Police and government deliberately looking in the wrong direction is criminal”.
Thus, the group that includes retired police officers has approached Prime Minister Theresa May and Metropolitan Police chief Cressida Dick with a renewed call for action in the form of a six-page letter setting out all their reasons.
CMoMM leading light Jill Havern - formerly attached to RAF military police at USAFE, Alconbury airbase in the UK - told the Resident that she suspects “something very wicked lies at the heart of this case”, bearing in mind that the forum’s repeated approaches to the authorities “always fall on deaf ears”.
“We have written Petitions, submitted FOI (Freedom of Information) requests… All replies are written from the same script. It doesn't matter from which department.
“Basically people want to prevent our research”, she continued.
Right now, “CMoMM is being mercilessly attacked by nameless faceless entities on the internet”, she added. There have even been “death threats” aimed at a forum member whose book: “"What Really Happened to Madeleine McCann: 60 Reasons which suggest she was not abducted" was ‘silenced’ in 2009 by lawyers working for the McCann parents.
But adversity has not deterred campaigners from pushing for what they believe to be the truth to be allowed to come out.
Thus last month’s media razzmatazz - and three key developments that it threw up - have been seized in this latest bid for “a new unlimited remit”.
Havern actually dubs the moment “urgent”.
She explains in the letter sent to Downing Street and the Met that Portugal’s highest court in the land has ruled in favour of former Maddie investigator Gonçalo Amaral - bringing his court wins in the bitter legal case brought by the McCanns to three (click here), and dispensing with any further chances of appeal.
In a rejection of the McCann’s ‘last pitch’ at litigation in Portugal, the Supreme Tribunal reiterated that the couple had not been cleared of involvement in their daughter’s disappearance (click here).
And in interviews with Sky News and “an Australian news source” former Metropolitan Police Detective Chief Inspector Colin Sutton dropped the bombshell about being warned off leading Grange “by a very senior Met police officer” as he (Sutton) “wouldn’t be able to go where he wanted to” .
Havern quoted Sutton as saying: "Operation Grange's narrow remit to focus only on the theory that the four-year-old was abducted from the family's holiday apartment in Portugal was unusual and a 'missed opportunity'..."
Reminding the prime minister of a previous letter from the forum, pushing for true transparency, openness and thoroughness - to the point that detectives are free to go “wherever the evidence leads them” - CMoMM said that it hopes a new remit would also give a green-light to investigate “all aspects of the operation of the Find Madeleine Fund, including: investigating the actions of all of its Directors, the funding of the private investigations, whether or not funds have been used to pay the McCanns’ legal fees and expenses, why it was necessary for a separate account to be set up last year, to be controlled by the McCanns and not the Directors, and accounting for all monies paid into and from the Find Madeleine Fund since it was set up in May 2007.”
So, does Havern think she will get answers?
The amateur sleuth is not holding her breath - particularly as Theresa May is “up to her ears in problems” right now.
“Ultimately, we will have to make a Misconduct in Public Office complaint”, she told us. “But that cannot happen until Grange is concluded”.
Indeed, there are those who believe the only reason Grange remains open is to stave off the effects of its closure - both in UK and Portugal - bearing in mind it has spent around €15 million without producing any answers.
Here, for example, a vindicated Amaral is still adamant that the Supreme Court victory should impel the PJ to “once and for all start investigating” (click here).
“REAL JOURNALISM WOULD HAVE QUESTIONED TAPAS GROUP”
Amaral, who has a second book in hand - ready for publication once Grange is wound-up - believes it is “high time to channel efforts into what’s important”: getting to the truth.
In an interview with the Resident shortly after his third legal victory in the battle for his right to freedom of expression, he said “perhaps it is time to transform the PJGA initiative” (set up to help him pay his legal costs) “into PJMM, Projecto Justiça Madeleine McCann”.
“With the collaboration of retired Portuguese and British police”, PJMM could “advance with a real, objective, independent investigation to investigate the causes of the mysterious disappearance, search for the child and identify those responsible”, he said.
“An independent investigation that doesn’t look at names but looks at evidence and facts - without worrying about the position of anyone - is possible”, he believes, though the quality of journalism over the last 10 years has clearly left him unimpressed.
“Not one organ of communication bothered interviewing the companions of (Madeleine’s) parents”, he told us.
“They should be bombarded with questions, but no one questions.
“In the front line appears the parents, with the friends in silence...It is strange, very strange”.
A former British police superintendent, member of CMoMM and author of the ebook “What Really Happened to Madeleine McCann?” put the forum’s new initiative into three simple sentences:
“This is not about any kind of personal vendetta against the McCann parents, it is a search for the truth of what happened to Madeleine”.
“If the McCanns, any of their detectives, the PJ or Grange can come up with a cogent, coherent and credible story about what happened between 9pm and 9.50 pm on 3/5/2007 then we all want to hear it.
“But each bit of what we have been told has been proved to have been wrong, mistaken, irrelevant, or a simple lie”.
Not TB's forum has submitted yet another letter to various top bods on 12th June demanding a fresh investigation. Quite how he/they think(s) a new investigation governed by the same forces would differ from the current one is anybody's guess but it's clear that because OG is not seen to be producing the result desired by CMoMM (i.e the parents incarcerated) then that particular team should be removed. I was drawn to another article today and wondered if this may be the area the Met may be forbidden to investigate, bearing in mind the Russian presence in Luz (referenced by Murat & Walczuch in a telephone intercept). Just something to ponder. https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil?utm_term=.deeqGmdBN#.xqn73pDM2
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2017, 01:33:51 AM
What is a "Misconduct in Office Complaint?"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on June 18, 2017, 12:17:16 PM
But what on earth makes Havern's Honchos think they have right to do this? And to whom?
However, it might be amusing to see them get The Sex and Travel Option again.
IMO they are just sick that their 10 years of "research" may be proved worthless as current investigators just really, really aren't investigating the parents. Reading the Resident article I get the sense a new Crowdfunding appeal may be imminent......
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2017, 01:06:39 PM
IMO they are just sick that their 10 years of "research" may be proved worthless as current investigators just really, really aren't investigating the parents. Reading the Resident article I get the sense a new Crowdfunding appeal may be imminent......
They are all plain Barking, if you ask me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 18, 2017, 01:41:31 PM
They have had lots of labels applied to them but they have continued to work away analysing evidence, collecting new evidence via F.O.I's etc., and posting their findings for people to read. I don't agree with all their conclusions but they have gathered a lot of information and links which are a useful resource for others.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 18, 2017, 01:50:18 PM
They have had lots of labels applied to them but they have continued to work away analysing evidence, collecting new evidence via F.O.I's etc., and posting their findings for people to read. I don't agree with all their conclusions but they have gathered a lot of information and links which are a useful resource for others.
And they Ban anyone who doesn't agree with them or criticises their "Findings.". Hardly well balanced, is it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2017, 02:31:01 PM
They have had lots of labels applied to them but they have continued to work away analysing evidence, collecting new evidence via F.O.I's etc., and posting their findings for people to read. I don't agree with all their conclusions but they have gathered a lot of information and links which are a useful resource for others.
They have on the whole completely misunderstood the evidence They are convinced Maddie blood was recovered from the boot as a fact Convinced the dog alerts prove the past presence of a cadaver Eleanor's description of them as barking is bang on
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 18, 2017, 02:42:02 PM
And they Ban anyone who doesn't agree with them or criticises their "Findings.". Hardly well balanced, is it.
Any post vwhich points out a fault in their reasoning is removed and therefore gives the impression that everyone agrees with them Anyone who thinks they offer any insight needs to examine their evidence a little more critically
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 18, 2017, 06:20:49 PM
Any post vwhich points out a fault in their reasoning is removed and therefore gives the impression that everyone agrees with them Anyone who thinks they offer any insight needs to examine their evidence a little more critically
I imagine that would depend on how such posts were phrased. Some people seem to have an unerring ability to offend, don't they?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on June 18, 2017, 07:15:19 PM
They have had lots of labels applied to them but they have continued to work away analysing evidence, collecting new evidence via F.O.I's etc., and posting their findings for people to read. I don't agree with all their conclusions but they have gathered a lot of information and links which are a useful resource for others.
What have they achieved by their analysis of 'evidence'? You seem to believe their conclusions have some merit. What exactly would that be? They have provided many links ... but to what end exactly £5%4%
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 18, 2017, 08:07:16 PM
What have they achieved by their analysis of 'evidence'? You seem to believe their conclusions have some merit. What exactly would that be? They have provided many links ... but to what end exactly £5%4%
Pretty much the same end as any civilian who is providing allegedly researched "pukkah gen " which will resolve the case for the investigating authorities. "Aqui, Pedro, outro arquivo de nutter para o gabinete de classificação cinza redondo" "Here Pete, another nutter file for the round grey filing cabinet"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on June 18, 2017, 08:18:24 PM
But what on earth makes Havern's Honchos think they have right to do this? And to whom?
However, it might be amusing to see them get The Sex and Travel Option again.
What makes them think they can? Misconduct in public office should be considered only where: There is no suitable statutory offence for a piece of serious misconduct (such as a serious breach of or neglect of a public duty that is not in itself a criminal offence); There was serious misconduct or a deliberate failure to perform a duty owed to the public, with serious potential or actual consequences for the public; The facts are so serious that the court's sentencing powers would otherwise be inadequate
It will be worth hanging around to watch which mechanism is used, who they go for and the reaction of the CPS and courts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 18, 2017, 09:16:10 PM
What makes them think they can? Misconduct in public office should be considered only where: There is no suitable statutory offence for a piece of serious misconduct (such as a serious breach of or neglect of a public duty that is not in itself a criminal offence); There was serious misconduct or a deliberate failure to perform a duty owed to the public, with serious potential or actual consequences for the public; The facts are so serious that the court's sentencing powers would otherwise be inadequate
It will be worth hanging around to watch which mechanism is used, who they go for and the reaction of the CPS and courts.
Could it be allegedly deciding which offence has been committed before you start investigating a case?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 19, 2017, 04:01:49 AM
I imagine that would depend on how such posts were phrased. Some people seem to have an unerring ability to offend, don't they?
You imagine.... Don't you know Do you really believe what you are posting Looks like not one person has managed to phrase a dissenting post correctly as every one has been removed The forum you support bans any sort of free speech and lies about the evidence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 19, 2017, 04:33:56 AM
What makes them think they can? Misconduct in public office should be considered only where: There is no suitable statutory offence for a piece of serious misconduct (such as a serious breach of or neglect of a public duty that is not in itself a criminal offence); There was serious misconduct or a deliberate failure to perform a duty owed to the public, with serious potential or actual consequences for the public; The facts are so serious that the court's sentencing powers would otherwise be inadequate
It will be worth hanging around to watch which mechanism is used, who they go for and the reaction of the CPS and courts.
So pie in the sky then. But I agree that it will be worth hanging around to see what happens.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 19, 2017, 04:49:33 AM
Could it be allegedly deciding which offence has been committed before you start investigating a case?
I think that The Offence is Misconduct. They will probably try it on, although it sounded like more of A Threat to me.
It would seem that a complaint has to be made to The CPS, but since there is no evidence of any Misconduct by Anyone, then it will just be more sleep inducing words with no real content. They, of course, will just see this as proof of a Cover Up. It is just what they want to make it. You can't beat that sort of mentality.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 19, 2017, 05:08:11 AM
I think that The Offence is Misconduct. They will probably try it on, although it sounded like more of A Threat to me.
It would seem that a complaint has to be made to The CPS, but since there is no evidence of any Misconduct by Anyone, then it will just be more sleep inducing words with no real content. They, of course, will just see this as proof of a Cover Up. It is just what they want to make it. You can't beat that sort of mentality.
Lots of people don't accept Judicial decisions if they don't like them. Some people think a whole country is conspiring against the McCanns. How mad is that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 19, 2017, 05:33:59 AM
Lots of people don't accept Judicial decisions if they don't like them. Some people think a whole country is conspiring against the McCanns. How mad is that?
I don't think that the whole country is conspiring against The McCann, and nor does anyone I know. And no matter what anyone thinks of Judicial Decisions, they are just that. Even in Portugal. Even I can see why The Supreme Court of Portugal ruled as it did.
But this is about Misconduct in Public Office. Who exactly? A Police Officer? A Politician? An Entire Investigation? This is the crazy bit. The McCanns have never even been arrested, let alone charged with anything. So did The Portuguese Investigation fail miserably, due to incompetence?
I think not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 19, 2017, 07:23:14 AM
Lots of people don't accept Judicial decisions if they don't like them. Some people think a whole country is conspiring against the McCanns. How mad is that?
I don't know anyone who thinks the whole country is conspiring against the Mccann's.... That would be as barmy as CMOMM Do you have a cite Of course not
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 19, 2017, 07:43:27 AM
I don't know anyone who thinks the whole country is conspiring against the Mccann's.... That would be as barmy as CMOMM Do you have a cite Of course not
Of course not. Why would the whole country conspire against The McCanns? And for what reason? This suggestion is bordering on insane. It has no logic whatsoever.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on June 19, 2017, 09:11:25 AM
Lots of people don't accept Judicial decisions if they don't like them. Some people think a whole country is conspiring against the McCanns. How mad is that?
I think you may be confusing those of us who spend a great deal of our time posting on internet fora with what goes on in the real world among those who have a life of their own and who are far too busy with that to involve themselves with the imagined minutiae of the lives of others. Particularly people they don't know. People they have never met. People who are living a family tragedy day and daily and who, as a result, have been chosen by some to be unjustifiably pilloried.
I could almost guarantee that the 'whole country', let alone 'conspiring against the McCann family' don't give them a thought unless to wish Madeleine well when her case is mentioned by the media.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 19, 2017, 09:21:19 AM
I think you may be confusing those of us who spend a great deal of our time posting on internet fora with what goes on in the real world among those who have a life of their own and who are far too busy with that to involve themselves with the imagined minutiae of the lives of others. Particularly people they don't know. People they have never met. People who are living a family tragedy day and daily and who, as a result, have been chosen by some to be unjustifiably pilloried.
I could almost guarantee that the 'whole country', let alone 'conspiring against the McCann family' don't give them a thought unless to wish Madeleine well when her case is mentioned by the media.
Yep, to suggest that the whole country might be conspiring against The McCanns is a trifle unhinged. In My Opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on June 23, 2017, 09:07:11 AM
''the strain on many officers has already reached breaking point'' , due to funding cuts.
So says Detective Inspector Warren Hines, on Sky News.
Quote
“This does have an impact on other investigations. We’ve had to pause some and slow down on some and that’s just a necessity.”
What I alluded to in another post,hard to see how Grange can come higher than counter terroism.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
What resources have been removed from counter terrorism or any other policing duties by Operation Grange?
Some have found the very limited resources now allocated to an active investigation into the fate of a child risible. Now as well as being risible ... it is portrayed as a threat to national security &%+((£
Why do I get the impression there might be individuals in existence ... other than those who might have reason to be made uncomfortable by it ... who are keen that an active investigation into the fate of a missing child is curtailed before reaching its conclusion. Decidedly odd imo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 23, 2017, 10:31:31 AM
What resources have been removed from counter terrorism or any other policing duties by Operation Grange?
Its possibly the other way around,there is only so much money and man power,the story suggest's other inquiries are to be curtailed,hard to see how therefore an inquiry into a crime in a foreign country which is yet to be determined can continue in this vain imo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on June 23, 2017, 10:53:01 AM
Its possibly the other way around,there is only so much money and man power,the story suggest's other inquiries are to be curtailed,hard to see how therefore an inquiry into a crime in a foreign country which is yet to be determined can continue in this vain imo.
It is an active police investigation ... when they have gone as far with it as they can no doubt they will inform us ... in the interim life goes on with forest fires in Portugal and tower block fires in Britain ... and active police cases continuing to be pursued, the old along side the new.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 23, 2017, 12:46:23 PM
It is an active police investigation ... when they have gone as far with it as they can no doubt they will inform us ... in the interim life goes on with forest fires in Portugal and tower block fires in Britain ... and active police cases continuing to be pursued, the old along side the new.
We'll see in the fullness of time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2017, 01:13:20 PM
A long fight but justified in the end;
Hillsborough: Criminal charges against six people
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on June 28, 2017, 01:16:22 PM
The CPS representative did state, that any prosecutions are not to be discussed on social media, in case fair trials are jeopardized.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 28, 2017, 05:37:58 PM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on July 05, 2017, 12:37:07 AM
Breaking news is that a baby of 18 months has gone missing in the district of Braga in northern Portugal.
The parents noticed the baby's absence at 8pm and the authorities were called at 10pm.
The local bombeiros, GNR, and PJ are on site.
The CM report says the gates were open when the child disappeared. It does not make clear whether this was done by the parents or by someone else.
Police will force terror informants to undergo lie detector tests after four attacks in just four months
The tests will target those with questionable motives for supplying intelligence
It will be headed by Mark Rowley, Britain's most senior counter-terror officer
There are fears police are not receiving enough high-quality intel on terrorists
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4679022/Terror-informants-face-lie-detector-tests-police.html#ixzz4mK8NH2Uq Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Just shows how inept SY really is. They must watch too much Jeremy Kyle rubbish on their days off if they think for a moment the polygraph is anything more than a scare tactic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on July 09, 2017, 11:45:37 AM
You have to wonder just why Britains most senior counter terrorist officer was rolled out to recently speak on the McCann case.
He has been involved for a long time;
Madeleine McCann case: Portuguese police reopen inquiry 24 October 2013
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley and Det Ch Insp Andy Redwood met senior Portuguese police in Lisbon last Thursday for a briefing on the new lines of enquiry, which are "separate" to those being followed by the Met. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24655826
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on July 09, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
Madeleine McCann case: Portuguese police reopen inquiry 24 October 2013
Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley and Det Ch Insp Andy Redwood met senior Portuguese police in Lisbon last Thursday for a briefing on the new lines of enquiry, which are "separate" to those being followed by the Met. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24655826
Thank you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on July 09, 2017, 02:55:56 PM
Police will force terror informants to undergo lie detector tests after four attacks in just four months
The tests will target those with questionable motives for supplying intelligence
It will be headed by Mark Rowley, Britain's most senior counter-terror officer
There are fears police are not receiving enough high-quality intel on terrorists
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4679022/Terror-informants-face-lie-detector-tests-police.html#ixzz4mK8NH2Uq Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
How do they intend to accomplish this? This is errant nonsense. No one can be "Forced" to take a lie detector test.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on July 09, 2017, 03:00:10 PM
And one good and sure way to ensure that no one tells them anything.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on July 10, 2017, 09:10:36 AM
Cadaver scent after 77 yrs?
Quote
Cadaver dogs find 'the lonely spot under a tree on deserted island where Amelia Earhart died': New theory claims aviator was a castaway and NOT captured by Japanese
Actually, I think it was The Mail beefing things up a bit, again. I do read The Mail On Line, because it is the best organised Media Web Site. But I take all newspaper articles with a pinch of salt these days.
I am never going to quite forgive myself for being briefly taken in by Media reports when Madeleine first went missing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2017, 10:53:08 AM
Actually, I think it was The Mail beefing things up a bit, again. I do read The Mail On Line, because it is the best organised Media Web Site. But I take all newspaper articles with a pinch of salt these days.
I am never going to quite forgive myself for being briefly taken in by Media reports when Madeleine first went missing.
It's not clear to me why the media became so unreliable, but I heard an interesting quote the other day saying 'We don't have a monopoly any more'. Was it because a few owners had a monopoly that they thought they could shape public opinion? Both Blair and Cameron made sure they had Murdoch's support, then he became irrelevant.
Now very few people trust the media and it's all their own fault. They felt so 'in charge' that their standards fell dramatically and even those who aren't particularly aware realised they couldn't be trusted.
Lie detector tests, as far as I know, aren't compulsory in the UK.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2017, 11:03:40 AM
It's not clear to me why the media became so unreliable, but I heard an interesting quote the other day saying 'We don't have a monopoly any more'. Was it because a few owners had a monopoly that they thought they could shape public opinion? Both Blair and Cameron made sure they had Murdoch's support, then he became irrelevant.
Now very few people trust the media and it's all their own fault. They felt so 'in charge' that their standards fell dramatically and even those who aren't particularly aware realised they couldn't be trusted.
Lie detector tests, as far as I know, aren't compulsory in the UK.
Lie Detector Tests aren't compulsory anywhere. Although Torture sometimes raises it's ugly head.
I don't buy newspapers anymore, but I am sure that they are worse than they were twenty odd years ago when I still did.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2017, 12:24:34 PM
Lie Detector Tests aren't compulsory anywhere. Although Torture sometimes raises it's ugly head.
I don't buy newspapers anymore, but I am sure that they are worse than they were twenty odd years ago when I still did.
I suppose anyone refusing a lie detector test might be seen as having something to hide. On the other hand fear of failing test might stop people coming forward with important information. I think it just adds complications.
Most of the media are out of touch, as their complete failure to spot what was happening with the Labour leader clearly demonstrated.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on July 10, 2017, 01:25:55 PM
Lie Detector Tests aren't compulsory anywhere. Although Torture sometimes raises it's ugly head.
I don't buy newspapers anymore, but I am sure that they are worse than they were twenty odd years ago when I still did.
I believe US Law Enforcement makes candidates undergo a polygraph based on an extensive written application. The FBI often turns down applicants who fail the test so I guess refusal to participate is not an option if you want the job.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2017, 01:48:23 PM
I suppose anyone refusing a lie detector test might be seen as having something to hide. On the other hand fear of failing test might stop people coming forward with important information. I think it just adds complications.
Most of the media are out of touch, as their complete failure to spot what was happening with the Labour leader clearly demonstrated.
Of course it will. I'm not sure I would want to come forward if I thought I might not be believed.
So one refuses and they don't believe you. Then what?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2017, 01:50:16 PM
I believe US Law Enforcement makes candidates undergo a polygraph based on an extensive written application. The FBI often turns down applicants who fail the test so I guess refusal to participate is not an option if you want the job.
That made me laugh. But best I don't say anything Libellous about The FBI.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on July 10, 2017, 02:01:59 PM
Of course it will. I'm not sure I would want to come forward if I thought I might not be believed.
So one refuses and they don't believe you. Then what?
I think they're using it on people who are voluntarily offering information about others, so no consequences for them, but a potential loss of information by the security services.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on July 10, 2017, 02:13:44 PM
Given the amount of thread cleaning which has been required recently, posters should ensure that their comments are relevant to the thread they intend to post on. A single comment can take a thread off at a tangent so please bear this in mind.
Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on July 10, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
I think they're using it on people who are voluntarily offering information about others, so no consequences for them, but a potential loss of information by the security services.
There could be grave consequences for anyone caught providing intelligence to the security services as they have often been on the wrong side of the law themselves. Most sources have some sort of connection to whoever they are offering information about & usually the officer dealing with a source keeps the identity of the source secret. To arrange a polygraph, which would leave DNA evidence on the equipment & the capacity for voice recognition aside from sorting out a baseline test, would undermine the whole informant process. IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on July 10, 2017, 03:25:46 PM
There could be grave consequences for anyone caught providing intelligence to the security services as they have often been on the wrong side of the law themselves. Most sources have some sort of connection to whoever they are offering information about & usually the officer dealing with a source keeps the identity of the source secret. To arrange a polygraph, which would leave DNA evidence on the equipment & the capacity for voice recognition aside from sorting out a baseline test, would undermine the whole informant process. IMO.
I think you are right. This is a very silly idea. So who let this one loose, and why?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on July 11, 2017, 11:54:55 PM
Over two years since a shocking BBC investigation exposed extreme cases of police brutality in Lisbon neighbourhood Cova da Moura, the Public ministry has finally cited 18 PSP agents for the crimes of torture, kidnapping and qualified injury and offence to physical integrity “aggravated by hatred and racial discrimination”.
The news will come as vindication to those who gave their stories to BBC journalist James Fletcher in 2015.
As Fletcher explained at the time “Four separate investigations are underway... Both the Interior Ministry and Portugal's racial discrimination commission are investigating”.
But it has taken all this time for “an accusation without precedent in this country” to be formulated.
Indeed, if the interior ministry’s ‘investigation’ had been accepted, no accusations would have been made, reports Diário de Notícias today, as IGAI (the general inspectorate of internal administration) archived the case “by virtue that inquiries showed an absence of fundamentation for disciplinary proceedings against (police agents) to be opened”.
The PJ’s counter-terrorism unit (UNCT) has found differently, and this has led to the Public Ministry accusations.
The case centres on the treatment of six young Cape Verdian men, in February 2015.
The BBC’s story can be read here (click here).
Diário de Notícias has repeated it today, with emphasis on the insults hurled at the young men as they were being “kicked and punched” repeatedly as they lay helpless on the floor.
According to the paper as they were being physically assaulted in the local police station, one agent told them: “You do not know how much I hate your race. I want to exterminate all of you. You should be deported. If it was up to me, you would all be sterilised”.
Another challenged the men to “go to ISIS” … “You will all disappear, you, your race and your stinking neighbourhood”
DN stresses that the PJ investigation has also uncovered the crimes of “falsification of (police) reports and witness statements”.
There is even a female sub-commissioner and a female police agent accused of the crimes of failing to help (the victims) and failing to denounce (the behaviour of colleagues).
As DN explains: “At the station everyone participated in the crimes”.
Today, SOS Racism has declared that “the (Portuguese) State has been blind and deaf to the existence of racism in (its) institutions for too long”.
Talking to TSF radio, the association’s leader Mamadou Ba said “now isn’t the time for celebrating. We need to wait for judicial authorities to do their work. This is an important step for the affirmation of justice and for the concept of equality of justice for all.
“For now, I wait in hope. There have been several cases in which, first there is an accusation - particularly in the case of deaths in police custody - and then police end up being cleared”.
Over two years since a shocking BBC investigation exposed extreme cases of police brutality in Lisbon neighbourhood Cova da Moura, the Public ministry has finally cited 18 PSP agents for the crimes of torture, kidnapping and qualified injury and offence to physical integrity “aggravated by hatred and racial discrimination”.
The news will come as vindication to those who gave their stories to BBC journalist James Fletcher in 2015.
As Fletcher explained at the time “Four separate investigations are underway... Both the Interior Ministry and Portugal's racial discrimination commission are investigating”.
But it has taken all this time for “an accusation without precedent in this country” to be formulated.
Indeed, if the interior ministry’s ‘investigation’ had been accepted, no accusations would have been made, reports Diário de Notícias today, as IGAI (the general inspectorate of internal administration) archived the case “by virtue that inquiries showed an absence of fundamentation for disciplinary proceedings against (police agents) to be opened”.
The PJ’s counter-terrorism unit (UNCT) has found differently, and this has led to the Public Ministry accusations.
The case centres on the treatment of six young Cape Verdian men, in February 2015.
The BBC’s story can be read here (click here).
Diário de Notícias has repeated it today, with emphasis on the insults hurled at the young men as they were being “kicked and punched” repeatedly as they lay helpless on the floor.
According to the paper as they were being physically assaulted in the local police station, one agent told them: “You do not know how much I hate your race. I want to exterminate all of you. You should be deported. If it was up to me, you would all be sterilised”.
Another challenged the men to “go to ISIS” … “You will all disappear, you, your race and your stinking neighbourhood”
DN stresses that the PJ investigation has also uncovered the crimes of “falsification of (police) reports and witness statements”.
There is even a female sub-commissioner and a female police agent accused of the crimes of failing to help (the victims) and failing to denounce (the behaviour of colleagues).
As DN explains: “At the station everyone participated in the crimes”.
Today, SOS Racism has declared that “the (Portuguese) State has been blind and deaf to the existence of racism in (its) institutions for too long”.
Talking to TSF radio, the association’s leader Mamadou Ba said “now isn’t the time for celebrating. We need to wait for judicial authorities to do their work. This is an important step for the affirmation of justice and for the concept of equality of justice for all.
“For now, I wait in hope. There have been several cases in which, first there is an accusation - particularly in the case of deaths in police custody - and then police end up being cleared”.
It seems that the Portuguese are finally beginning to acknowledge the terrible injustices inflicted on innocent people by an element of their police force who have shown total contempt for their own laws - in the knowledge that they will almost certainly get away with it.
Maybe there is hope for justice for Leonora Cipriano after all. Her PJ torturers are still walking around free.
AIMHO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on July 12, 2017, 01:43:46 PM
It seems that the Portuguese are finally beginning to acknowledge the terrible injustices inflicted on innocent people by an element of their police force who have shown total contempt for their own laws - in the knowledge that they will almost certainly get away with it.
Maybe there is hope for justice for Leonora Cipriano after all. Her PJ torturers are still walking around free.
I don't know that there's actually any hope for proper justice for anyone there 8(8-)). No-one can give Leonor back her lost time, with or without Joana, even if she is innocent. The "Super-Judge" Carlos Alexandre, who oversaw the most recent aborted trial of Cristovao, is being accused of all sorts. https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/magistrado-acusado-de-corrupcao-emprestou-10-mil-euros-ao-juiz-carlos-alexandre&prev=search Cristovao continues to be at loggerheads with the Sporting Lisbon president Carvalho http://www.record.pt/futebol/futebol-nacional/liga-nos/sporting/detalhe/paulo-pereira-cristovao-sobre-bruno-de-carvalho-e-um-deslumbrado-hipocrita.html
Everywhere you look, the same names with some sort of link to the McCann/Cipriano cases keep cropping up in relation to alleged criminal activity.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on July 12, 2017, 01:50:27 PM
I don't know that there's actually any hope for proper justice for anyone there 8(8-)). No-one can give Leonor back her lost time, with or without Joana, even if she is innocent. The "Super-Judge" Carlos Alexandre, who oversaw the most recent aborted trial of Cristovao, is being accused of all sorts. https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/magistrado-acusado-de-corrupcao-emprestou-10-mil-euros-ao-juiz-carlos-alexandre&prev=search Cristovao continues to be at loggerheads with the Sporting Lisbon president Carvalho http://www.record.pt/futebol/futebol-nacional/liga-nos/sporting/detalhe/paulo-pereira-cristovao-sobre-bruno-de-carvalho-e-um-deslumbrado-hipocrita.html
Everywhere you look, the same names with some sort of link to the McCann/Cipriano cases keep cropping up in relation to alleged criminal activity.
Yep. Is this suspicious, do you think? I am reluctant to express an opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on July 13, 2017, 10:24:48 PM
Someone got his just desserts for bad behaviour on the internet;
Viscount jailed for offering money for killing of Gina Miller
Soliciting to commit murder carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment. IMO he got off really lightly & the court has sent out totally the wrong message.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on July 14, 2017, 07:24:34 AM
Soliciting to commit murder carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment. IMO he got off really lightly & the court has sent out totally the wrong message.
On that we can agree.
It should have been for several years.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on July 14, 2017, 01:09:34 PM
One of the men made his comments publicly so was unlikely to have been serious imo. The other seemed very serious as he actually tried to recruit specific people.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on July 14, 2017, 02:14:59 PM
One of the men made his comments publicly so was unlikely to have been serious imo. The other seemed very serious as he actually tried to recruit specific people.
So, rather like those who incite racial hatred on street corners or the internet, it's not serious unless they actually try to recruit people. OK......
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on July 14, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
So, rather like those who incite racial hatred on street corners or the internet, it's not serious unless they actually try to recruit people. OK......
There are degrees of seriousness which the sentences reflected.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on July 14, 2017, 03:40:03 PM
One of the men made his comments publicly so was unlikely to have been serious imo. The other seemed very serious as he actually tried to recruit specific people.
Yes I would agree with that G. She used her money and position to try and change the legal democratic vote from the white indigenous population who wanted to leave the EU.
She is the racist and in my opinion. she met her match and didn't like it. I do believe if anything happened to her via a car crash he would be horrified and he wouldn't payout as he was just ranting on...as men do.
Just my opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on July 14, 2017, 10:15:36 PM
How cadaver dogs found a missing Pennsylvania man deep underground
The extensive search for four missing young men on a sprawling property in Pennsylvania has involved about 50 law enforcement investigators, including local and state police and the FBI.
But the big break in the case -- a 12-and-a-half-foot deep grave with the body of one of the missing men and other human remains -- came from team members of a different species.
"We had cadaver dogs," Bucks County District Attorney Matt Weintraub said, shaking his head in amazement.
"I don't understand the science behind it, but those dogs could smell those poor boys 12-and-a-half feet below ground."
The science of cadaver dogs is a fascinating combination of biology and single-minded training, said Cat Warren, the author of "What the Dog Knows: Scent, Science, and the Amazing Ways Dogs Perceive the World."
"I'm a real believer in the purity of these dogs when they're properly trained," Warren said. "They do have good noses. They are able to distinguish that faint scent -- that human scent."
A dog's sense of smell
Dogs of all skill sets -- such as smelling for narcotics or for explosives -- are used in different roles as part of law enforcement teams. Cadaver dogs are trained to identify a scent specific to dead human bodies and then notify their trainers.
These dogs are often used in death investigations, such as in the Casey Anthony case, or during the search for survivors after the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in Ukraine.
Training goes a long way, but dogs are genetically better than other animals at sniffing out specific scents, said Dave Pappalardo, owner of K9 Unlimited, which trains dogs for law enforcement and civilians.
"The dog sees the world through its nose first, before its eyes," he said. "Just like we look at things first, they smell things first."
Imagine, Pappalardo said, a dog and a human walk into a house with soup cooking. The human smells soup, full stop. The dog, though, smells every ingredient in the pot individually and clearly.
"That's why they're so good at their job, they can discriminate odors individually," he said.
One of those distinct odors is human bodies, and the dogs are trained to recognize that specific smell and brush aside others.
"There is a lot of crossover with dead animals and dead humans, but humans have enough distinct things about them that cadaver dogs can tell the difference," Warren said.
The dogs hone those skills with training that uses real donated human body parts, including placenta, teeth, bones and human fat, she said. At some research facilities, including Western Carolina University, dogs are trained using actual entire human bodies, Warren said.
At a sprawling and busy investigation like the one in Bucks County, the ability of a dog to narrow down the search to one area can be hugely valuable.
"Dogs are smelling all sorts of other things when on a farm or construction site," Warren said, "but there's only one set of odors that the dog is going to get a reward for if it's a cadaver dog, and that's the scent of human remains."
On Tuesday, Weintraub, the district attorney, said that local and state police and the FBI were in an "all hands on deck" investigation to find the missing men.
How cadaver dogs found a missing Pennsylvania man deep underground
The extensive search for four missing young men on a sprawling property in Pennsylvania has involved about 50 law enforcement investigators, including local and state police and the FBI.
But the big break in the case -- a 12-and-a-half-foot deep grave with the body of one of the missing men and other human remains -- came from team members of a different species.
"We had cadaver dogs," Bucks County District Attorney Matt Weintraub said, shaking his head in amazement.
"I don't understand the science behind it, but those dogs could smell those poor boys 12-and-a-half feet below ground."
The science of cadaver dogs is a fascinating combination of biology and single-minded training, said Cat Warren, the author of "What the Dog Knows: Scent, Science, and the Amazing Ways Dogs Perceive the World."
"I'm a real believer in the purity of these dogs when they're properly trained," Warren said. "They do have good noses. They are able to distinguish that faint scent -- that human scent."
A dog's sense of smell
Dogs of all skill sets -- such as smelling for narcotics or for explosives -- are used in different roles as part of law enforcement teams. Cadaver dogs are trained to identify a scent specific to dead human bodies and then notify their trainers.
These dogs are often used in death investigations, such as in the Casey Anthony case, or during the search for survivors after the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in Ukraine.
Training goes a long way, but dogs are genetically better than other animals at sniffing out specific scents, said Dave Pappalardo, owner of K9 Unlimited, which trains dogs for law enforcement and civilians.
"The dog sees the world through its nose first, before its eyes," he said. "Just like we look at things first, they smell things first."
Imagine, Pappalardo said, a dog and a human walk into a house with soup cooking. The human smells soup, full stop. The dog, though, smells every ingredient in the pot individually and clearly.
"That's why they're so good at their job, they can discriminate odors individually," he said.
One of those distinct odors is human bodies, and the dogs are trained to recognize that specific smell and brush aside others.
"There is a lot of crossover with dead animals and dead humans, but humans have enough distinct things about them that cadaver dogs can tell the difference," Warren said.
The dogs hone those skills with training that uses real donated human body parts, including placenta, teeth, bones and human fat, she said. At some research facilities, including Western Carolina University, dogs are trained using actual entire human bodies, Warren said.
At a sprawling and busy investigation like the one in Bucks County, the ability of a dog to narrow down the search to one area can be hugely valuable.
"Dogs are smelling all sorts of other things when on a farm or construction site," Warren said, "but there's only one set of odors that the dog is going to get a reward for if it's a cadaver dog, and that's the scent of human remains."
On Tuesday, Weintraub, the district attorney, said that local and state police and the FBI were in an "all hands on deck" investigation to find the missing men.
There is a vast social gap between a retired TV Producer and the old money and connections of an aristocrat, a Viscount.
I think the brevitty of Viscount Phillipps sentence was because he was talking big talk, rather than it seems really meaning it. But what a foolish and dangerous thing to do ... and twice!
But the sentence was far too short IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on July 16, 2017, 02:51:20 PM
There is a vast social gap between a retired TV Producer and the old money and connections of an aristocrat, a Viscount.
I think the brevitty of Viscount Phillipps sentence was because he was talking big talk, rather than it seems really meaning it. But what a foolish and dangerous thing to do ... and twice!
But the sentence was far too short IMO
In theory all are equal before the law. The Viscount seemed rich in titles but not in money, old or new. He was probably offering money he didn't have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on July 21, 2017, 09:50:56 PM
The search for the body of airman Corrie Mckeague in a UK landfill site has been called off, with no body found.
Yes, this news relates to Madeleine McCann.
I have been tracking 3 bodies-in-the-rubbish stories. One is obviously the MBM story, posited on parents or locals disposing of the body by dumping it in a wheelie bin which then went to landfill.
The second is a tragic tale of a young baby found in a rubbish processing plant in southern Lisbon about 18 months ago. Within the last week, CMTV has provided what appears to be an update on this story. A woman was given 7 years and 10 months for murdering her baby and disposing of the body in the rubbish.
The 3rd story is Corrie Mckeague, in the UK. If we are to believe the link, police thought to find an adult human being from a load totalling around 100kg of rubbish. Unless rubbish processing in the UK is cr*p, this idea is cr*p. I happen to be skinny, but I weigh 64kg, over half the supposed weight delivered to the processing centre. If those refuse centre staff could not find my dead body before I went into landfill, I would be more than slightly p***ed off.
What went into the landfill? If anything.
Unless the figures are way off, I can be 99.9% confident Corrie did not go into the landfill. So what did?
Perhaps his mobile? After all, it was tracked from where he was to the rubbish dump. Even that, I am thinking no. I have no doubt his mobile made the journey. But European directives demanded that toxic waste like old phones were prevented from going into landfill. It should have got separated out. Presumably it did, otherwise the police would know from signals exactly where the phone was buried.
This leaves the burning issue of where Corrie Mckeague is now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on July 22, 2017, 09:20:23 AM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on August 06, 2017, 08:57:35 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-40842261 40 minutes ago (6th August 2017) From the section Tayside and Central Scotland A body has been found at the home of a man who has been missing for almost a month. Police believe remains discovered at the property Bo'ness are those of Arnold Mouat, but they have not yet been formally identified. Mr Mouat, 64, was last seen at an address in Panbrae Road on 6 July. In a statement, Supt Martin Fotheringham said Police Scotland had referred its handling of the case to the police watchdog. Officers had made a number of public appeals in an effort to trace Mr Mouat since his disappearance last month. They asked people living in the Bo'ness, West Lothian and Falkirk areas to check their outhouses, gardens and garages. Search and rescue officers, a dog unit, and a helicopter were deployed in a bid to find him. A public search of the local area by 59 volunteers was also carried out. Police confirmed that a body was discovered at Mr Mouat's family home in Panbrae Road at about 14:45 on Saturday. They are treating Mr Mouat's death as unexplained but not suspicious. A report will be sent to the procurator fiscal. Supt Fotheringham said: "This is a tragic set of circumstances and our thoughts and sympathies are with the Mouat family as they come to terms with their loss. "Following a review of our response to this incident, Police Scotland has referred this matter to the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner (PIRC). "We will provide them with all the necessary assistance and support they require during their investigation. "I would like to thank those members of the public and media who responded to our appeal for information, in particular those who assisted with searching for Mr Mouat. "We are continuing to support Mr Mouat's family with dedicated family liaison officers and will continue to offer any assistance we can throughout this difficult time." A spokeswoman for the PIRC said it had launched an investigation into the response from Police Scotland. "This investigation is in the very early stages and a report will be sent to the chief constable in due course," she added. ================================================================
How very sad that he should have remained undiscovered for so long. Despite all the training, all the available resources, the man's home was apparently not searched thoroughly; human failure & possible canine failure is probable.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on August 06, 2017, 09:17:15 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-40842261 40 minutes ago (6th August 2017) From the section Tayside and Central Scotland A body has been found at the home of a man who has been missing for almost a month. Police believe remains discovered at the property Bo'ness are those of Arnold Mouat, but they have not yet been formally identified. Mr Mouat, 64, was last seen at an address in Panbrae Road on 6 July. In a statement, Supt Martin Fotheringham said Police Scotland had referred its handling of the case to the police watchdog. Officers had made a number of public appeals in an effort to trace Mr Mouat since his disappearance last month. They asked people living in the Bo'ness, West Lothian and Falkirk areas to check their outhouses, gardens and garages. Search and rescue officers, a dog unit, and a helicopter were deployed in a bid to find him. A public search of the local area by 59 volunteers was also carried out. Police confirmed that a body was discovered at Mr Mouat's family home in Panbrae Road at about 14:45 on Saturday. They are treating Mr Mouat's death as unexplained but not suspicious. A report will be sent to the procurator fiscal. Supt Fotheringham said: "This is a tragic set of circumstances and our thoughts and sympathies are with the Mouat family as they come to terms with their loss. "Following a review of our response to this incident, Police Scotland has referred this matter to the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner (PIRC). "We will provide them with all the necessary assistance and support they require during their investigation. "I would like to thank those members of the public and media who responded to our appeal for information, in particular those who assisted with searching for Mr Mouat. "We are continuing to support Mr Mouat's family with dedicated family liaison officers and will continue to offer any assistance we can throughout this difficult time." A spokeswoman for the PIRC said it had launched an investigation into the response from Police Scotland. "This investigation is in the very early stages and a report will be sent to the chief constable in due course," she added. ================================================================
How very sad that he should have remained undiscovered for so long. Despite all the training, all the available resources, the man's home was apparently not searched thoroughly; human failure & possible canine failure is probable.
Why is canine failure a probable when there is nothing to suggest they were used in a search of his house?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on August 06, 2017, 09:31:19 PM
What is the role of a dog unit in a missing person's investigation?
I'll ask again where in the article is it suggestive of dogs being used in the house where the chaps body was found,there are reports of divers,mountain rescue,helicopters being used,so in all probability they all failed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on August 07, 2017, 10:49:36 AM
I'll ask again where in the article is it suggestive of dogs being used in the house where the chaps body was found,there are reports of divers,mountain rescue,helicopters being used,so in all probability they all failed.
I can't find an on-line version of the report printed in yesterday's Sunday Mail written by one of the authors of the above but it suggests that dogs may very well have been used to search the house initially. It seems that all the stops were pulled out in the search for Mr Mouat ... and when searching for a missing person what is the first principal? To work out from where the person was last seen?
The GNR used that principal in the initial search for Madeleine and it is known that the dogs had been present inside apartment 5A.
From the Sunday Mail 6th July 2017 ...
Arnold was last seen at the house late on July 6.
In the four weeks since, officers searched different areas for him, including West Lothian.
Then, in the latest twist, police sealed off his property yesterday afternoon.
The detached home lies at the end of a row of upmarket houses next to the town's Old Kirk church.
Neighbours last night expressed shock that police had returned to the street.
Arnold - who is 6ft 3in - was often seen walking his dog along the road, which has stunning views over the Forth Estuary.
One local, who did not want to be named, said yesterday: "After he went missing, police searched every garden in the street and questioned everyone who lives there. There were sniffer dogs, a helicopter and many police - they appeared to be very thorough indeed. They hunted from top to bottom in the house where he lives so it is surely inconceivable they have missed something."
The Police Investigations & Review Commissioner may give an explanation of the circumstances of the search.
Condolences to Mr Mouat's family at what must be a distressing time for them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 15, 2017, 08:27:06 AM
For those interested in why Luz has very little CCTV, the article above gives information about when the GNR and PSP can turn on sound recording in monitoring systems.
It appears this was done for the Pope's visit to Fátima, but it is very much the exception.
The article does not cover what/when private CCTV can operate, only that of the GNR and PSP. However, it does give a flavour of why CCTV was not used on public streets in Luz in 2007.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on August 16, 2017, 05:38:36 PM
For those interested in why Luz has very little CCTV, the article above gives information about when the GNR and PSP can turn on sound recording in monitoring systems.
It appears this was done for the Pope's visit to Fátima, but it is very much the exception.
The article does not cover what/when private CCTV can operate, only that of the GNR and PSP. However, it does give a flavour of why CCTV was not used on public streets in Luz in 2007.
Portugal has some arcane laws on how CCTV footage may be used in court. But basically the judge gives the nod whether it may be admissible and how it may be used. It can't be used for fishing trips it would seem. Good lead ins are Decree-Law 35/2004 and Law 1/2005. Be warned there is a lot of it and it ain't that simple to follow even as a precis in English ?{)(**
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on August 21, 2017, 04:38:35 PM
Judge frees ex-coordinator and former chief inspector of PJ, accused of drug trafficking
Tamara Lopes 08 Aug 2017
The former coordinator of the Judicial Police (PJ) and the former chief inspector, who were under house arrest with an electronic bracelet, following the indictment of drug trafficking and corruption, are on the list of the nine defendants who were released today.
The lawyer of the former coordinator of the PJ, Carlos Melo Alves, told Lusa that the decision to release the defendants was from Judge Carlos Alexandre, due to the maximum time of pre-trial detention until the investiture decision, to end on the 13th of this month. And as the preliminary ruling will not be known before the deadline, the judge today determined, once again, the beginning of the investigation debate at the Central Criminal Court for September 1 in Monsanto Court, that the defendants under house arrest And preventive "were immediately" released.
According to the news agency, which had access to the 'Operation Achilles' accusation, in October 2006, the PJ already had strong indications of suspected links of Carlos Dias Santos to the drug traffickers, evidences that arose from information resulting from Surveillance and collection of information that "showed strong suspicions of links to the world of crime", the former coordinator of the PJ, the National Unit to Combat Trafficking in Narcotic Drugs (UNCTE), with Jorge Manero de Lemos and his trafficking activity damn it.
A disguised PJ agent was able to determine at the time, through a meeting with a suspect of Paraguayan nationality, that the criminal organization that exported cocaine to Terras Australis, a company in Torres Vedras, "had an informant in the Judicial Police" While the United States authorities (DEA) informed the PJ that the element that collaborated with drug trafficking organizations had the nickname "la machine", one of the facts that led them to Dias Santos, by the significant use of the term " You are a machine. "
The two elements of the PJ also used information that the criminal organizations protected by them advanced on "competing" organizations, using the same information "in UNCTE to do good services with drug seizures and thus to give credence to the alleged informants."
The Public Prosecutor's Office accused 29 people accused of drug trafficking, criminal association and corruption with a view to trafficking and passive corruption to commit illicit acts, including the military of GNR José Baltazar da Silva and Frankelim Lobo, leader of the organization Of drug trafficking with residence in Málaga, Spain, but with an unknown whereabouts, concludes the Portuguese news agency. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A link to Paraguay? I know very little about Paraguay so I am shocked to read that the country produces around 15% of the world's cannabis.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on August 23, 2017, 07:13:49 PM
Notice a lot of kerfuffle going on about the OFM FB page coming up as a Charity. Someone has been a bit careless hopefully.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on August 23, 2017, 09:48:27 PM
Judge frees ex-coordinator and former chief inspector of PJ, accused of drug trafficking
Tamara Lopes 08 Aug 2017
The former coordinator of the Judicial Police (PJ) and the former chief inspector, who were under house arrest with an electronic bracelet, following the indictment of drug trafficking and corruption, are on the list of the nine defendants who were released today.
The lawyer of the former coordinator of the PJ, Carlos Melo Alves, told Lusa that the decision to release the defendants was from Judge Carlos Alexandre, due to the maximum time of pre-trial detention until the investiture decision, to end on the 13th of this month. And as the preliminary ruling will not be known before the deadline, the judge today determined, once again, the beginning of the investigation debate at the Central Criminal Court for September 1 in Monsanto Court, that the defendants under house arrest And preventive "were immediately" released.
According to the news agency, which had access to the 'Operation Achilles' accusation, in October 2006, the PJ already had strong indications of suspected links of Carlos Dias Santos to the drug traffickers, evidences that arose from information resulting from Surveillance and collection of information that "showed strong suspicions of links to the world of crime", the former coordinator of the PJ, the National Unit to Combat Trafficking in Narcotic Drugs (UNCTE), with Jorge Manero de Lemos and his trafficking activity damn it.
A disguised PJ agent was able to determine at the time, through a meeting with a suspect of Paraguayan nationality, that the criminal organization that exported cocaine to Terras Australis, a company in Torres Vedras, "had an informant in the Judicial Police" While the United States authorities (DEA) informed the PJ that the element that collaborated with drug trafficking organizations had the nickname "la machine", one of the facts that led them to Dias Santos, by the significant use of the term " You are a machine. " The two elements of the PJ also used information that the criminal organizations protected by them advanced on "competing" organizations, using the same information "in UNCTE to do good services with drug seizures and thus to give credence to the alleged informants."
The Public Prosecutor's Office accused 29 people accused of drug trafficking, criminal association and corruption with a view to trafficking and passive corruption to commit illicit acts, including the military of GNR José Baltazar da Silva and Frankelim Lobo, leader of the organization Of drug trafficking with residence in Málaga, Spain, but with an unknown whereabouts, concludes the Portuguese news agency. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A link to Paraguay? I know very little about Paraguay so I am shocked to read that the country produces around 15% of the world's cannabis.
I find this fascianting misty.
So the bad drug cops who are protecting their own set up of drug lords are gaining Kudos with the authorities by shopping on rival drug gangs and drug barons.
How very clever !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on August 24, 2017, 07:50:50 AM
You insinuated: "Notice a lot of kerfuffle going on about the OFM FB page coming up as a Charity. Someone has been a bit careless hopefully."
Misty has provided a screenshot http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5764.msg420941#msg420941
What exactly am I meant to be looking at?
They obviously realised their mistake. Strange that it had been trending a lot yesterday was still described as a Charity when you asked your question and has now turned into a Community organisation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2017, 08:17:26 AM
They obviously realised their mistake. Strange that it had been trending a lot yesterday was still described as a Charity when you asked your question and has now turned into a Community organisation.
Strange neither you nor anyone else managed to grab a screen shot of this phenomenon. Calls to mind the fridge allegation no-one had the presence of mind to capture either.
Amazing fora myths are still being promulgated all these years down the line. Shame you brought the latest to a forum you moderate and which prides itself on accuracy.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on August 24, 2017, 08:22:16 AM
They obviously realised their mistake. Strange that it had been trending a lot yesterday was still described as a Charity when you asked your question and has now turned into a Community organisation.
I suspect a Facebook change has converted Non-profit to Charity and someone has had to go and change it.
I suspect Photoshop may just have been slightly more sophisticated than past efforts. Very strange Madeleine's page has been up for quite some time without ** Charity ** being noticed before now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on August 24, 2017, 08:55:36 AM
It isn't going to take too long for it to be 'trending' I rather suspect ... any chance of giving a cite for the blog from where your information originated?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on August 24, 2017, 09:30:32 AM
I suspect Photoshop may just have been slightly more sophisticated than past efforts. Very strange Madeleine's page has been up for quite some time without ** Charity ** being noticed before now.
I suspect you are calling me a liar. Please desist. I know what I saw on FB which the many screen shots back that up. Apology please.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2017, 12:21:38 PM
I suspect you are calling me a liar. Please desist. I know what I saw on FB which the many screen shots back that up. Apology please.
You are asking me to apologise for your suspicion? &%+((£
"Notice a lot of kerfuffle going on about the OFM FB page coming up as a Charity. Someone has been a bit careless hopefully." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5764.msg420900#msg420900
I repeat my request for a cite for the above.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on August 24, 2017, 01:55:30 PM
I suspect you are calling me a liar. Please desist. I know what I saw on FB which the many screen shots back that up. Apology please.
There are indeed many shots showing "charity", mostly from i-phones. However, it is no coincidence that on the very day the news was full of the McCanns complaining about troll activity that their site has been "attacked" so complaints to the Met & Charity Commission could be made about Fraud. It's no coincidence that it was Thompson who brought the issue to HdH's forum after "noticing" something no-one else had. In the same way that Amaral's GFM appeal was inexplicably altered to remove it from search engines just before its closure was announced, the mischief makers have been at it again. IMHO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2017, 03:00:39 PM
There are indeed many shots showing "charity", mostly from i-phones. However, it is no coincidence that on the very day the news was full of the McCanns complaining about troll activity that their site has been "attacked" so complaints to the Met & Charity Commission could be made about Fraud. It's no coincidence that it was Thompson who brought the issue to HdH's forum after "noticing" something no-one else had. In the same way that Amaral's GFM appeal was inexplicably altered to remove it from search engines just before its closure was announced, the mischief makers have been at it again. IMHO.
There is mention of "Charity" on Ben Needham's page. It appears to be a publicity vehicle for links to charities: when I clicked on it I reached Scottish Charities perhaps accessing it from other areas enables access to local charities.
I think it is yet again another storm in a teacup jumped upon as a rod to beat the McCanns with; one could have hoped that this forum might have been spared the speculation.
It does however reinforce discussion on another thread "Maddie parents agony at being taunted by online trolls" who it seems never pass an opportunity to denigrate Madeleine's parents.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on August 24, 2017, 04:09:22 PM
You are asking me to apologise for your suspicion? &%+((£
"Notice a lot of kerfuffle going on about the OFM FB page coming up as a Charity. Someone has been a bit careless hopefully." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5764.msg420900#msg420900
I repeat my request for a cite for the above.
What do you want citing?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on August 24, 2017, 04:18:20 PM
kerfuffle kəˈfʌf(ə)l/Submit nounBRITISHinformal a commotion or fuss, especially one caused by conflicting views. Google
You instigated a query for a cite when you insinuated: "Notice a lot of kerfuffle going on about the OFM FB page coming up as a Charity. Someone has been a bit careless hopefully." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5764.msg420900#msg420900
You brought a claim to the forum stating that you have noticed a commotion or fuss. You have not stated provenance of your information which is stated as a fact. A cite involves indicating where exactly you noticed this kerfuffle ~ commotion or fuss.
Or are you declaring exemption from the strictures expected of every other member of the forum?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on August 24, 2017, 05:59:24 PM
kerfuffle kəˈfʌf(ə)l/Submit nounBRITISHinformal a commotion or fuss, especially one caused by conflicting views. Google
You instigated a query for a cite when you insinuated: "Notice a lot of kerfuffle going on about the OFM FB page coming up as a Charity. Someone has been a bit careless hopefully." http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5764.msg420900#msg420900
You brought a claim to the forum stating that you have noticed a commotion or fuss. You have not stated provenance of your information which is stated as a fact. A cite involves indicating where exactly you noticed this kerfuffle ~ commotion or fuss.
Or are you declaring exemption from the strictures expected of every other member of the forum?
Since you answered the question and asked so nicely....
I can't access most of the groups at the link you have provided, so not much good as a cite ... what on earth is it that has to be hidden from the public domain?
By the way ... I missed the dismemberment of the owner's videos on this forum, before my time ... absolutely debunked, I believe. Was there not a restriction in place about linking to her as well as other disreputable sites? If so does it still stand?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on August 24, 2017, 07:33:17 PM
I can't access most of the groups at the link you have provided, so not much good as a cite ... what on earth is it that has to be hidden from the public domain?
By the way ... I missed the dismemberment of the owner's videos on this forum, before my time ... absolutely debunked, I believe. Was there not a restriction in place about linking to her as well as other disreputable sites? If so does it still stand?
You asked for a cite, you got it.
P.S. my original post neither supported nor opposed the kerfuffle, just pointed out its existence and possible cause.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on August 24, 2017, 08:42:14 PM
I can't access most of the groups at the link you have provided, so not much good as a cite ... what on earth is it that has to be hidden from the public domain?
By the way ... I missed the dismemberment of the owner's videos on this forum, before my time ... absolutely debunked, I believe. Was there not a restriction in place about linking to her as well as other disreputable sites? If so does it still stand?
I saw something the other day which said Facebook had limited what non-members could see. I didn't take much notice and I can't find it now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on August 24, 2017, 10:20:24 PM
I can't access most of the groups at the link you have provided, so not much good as a cite ... what on earth is it that has to be hidden from the public domain?
By the way ... I missed the dismemberment of the owner's videos on this forum, before my time ... absolutely debunked, I believe. Was there not a restriction in place about linking to her as well as other disreputable sites? If so does it still stand?
You are quite correct Brietta. IIRC the videos were completely debunked and they were officially declared not allowed on this forum.
Seems John has renagued on that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on August 30, 2017, 11:26:26 AM
Another epic from Tracey, this time about the fund
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on August 30, 2017, 12:25:29 PM
An investigative journalist she isn't;
The most recent accounts filed last month covering the financial year 2015-2016 show a balance of £714,800.
05 Jan 2017 Accounts for a small company made up to 31 March 2016 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06248215/filing-history
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 07, 2017, 06:20:57 PM
Very much as expected. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4862592/Met-police-asks-money-Madeleine-McCann-probe.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 24, 2017, 03:24:45 PM
This seems to bring out strong opinions on both sides. I think it clouds the issue when it's children. Looking at these actions in another way might help. Is it OK to drug your partner so you can nip out and meet your lover, for example? Is it OK to drug an elderly relative you care for so you can have a night out? No matter what the age or mental capacity of the person, is it ever ethical to medicate them for your own ends?
MUMBELIEVABLE Mum sparks furious debate after saying she drugs her kids and leaves them alone in hotel room Some shocked mums asked if the 'self-centred parents' had 'learned nothing from Madeleine McCann' By Josie Griffiths 24th September 2017, 12:02 pm Updated: 24th September 2017, 12:28 pm
A SHOCKED mum has asked for advice after an Instagram user boasted about “drugging her children and leaving them alone in a hotel room” – but is all as it seems?
Mumsnet user amazinggracie was horrified when a woman she follows, who is on holiday in Geneva with her husband and two kids, shared the post last night.
There’s been shock on Mumsnet after a woman boasted about ‘drugging’ her kids before leaving them alone to go to the hotel bar with her husband
In her “horrendous” Instagram story, the unnamed mum-of-two is said to have “given the kids Piriton to get them to sleep.”
Piriton is an allergy relief drug which can cause drowsiness in both children and adults.
According to the thread, the woman then went and “joined her husband in the bar, leaving her phone in the room connected to Skype to her husband’s phone so they could see them while they were in the bar.”
“I just feel all kinds of uncomfortable,” amazinggracie added. “Surely people don’t do this??
“I should add that she’d posted support from her other followers who were hailing it a great idea”.
Many of her fellow mums were equally shocked.
The Instagram user claims to have given her kids Piriton to make them drowsy – but some suspect it’s just a ‘bad taste joke’
Among them was TheStoic, who wrote: “So she posted that she drugged her children and left them alone in a hotel room? Can you post a screenshot?”
While HiJenny35 wrote: “What drug your children so you can go on the p***, no that’s not ok”.
And YellowFlower201 added: “Crazy!!! Leaving them is bad enough but drugging them is just madness.”
One mum said said: “I would literally take a screenshot and inform social services when they get back.
“How can you drug your kids?! And then leave them alone in a hotel room?!
“Did bloody idiotic self-centred parents learn nothing from Madeleine McCann?”
While another concerned parent said of the decision: “What a risk to take.”
But other mums were less worried about the post.
One wrote: “It’s definitely not a crime to give kids Piriton for sleep as my GP prescribed it for DD (dear daughter) at one stage.
“I also doubt it’s a crime to leave them in a hotel room if you’re watching them via a link the entire time.”
Another mum agreed, adding: “FFS (for f***s sake) get a grip people, this is not the work of the devil, it is at most a tad irresponsible”.
While others suspected the entire thing was nothing more than a “bad taste” joke.
One commenter said: “I know the lady you are referring to and she is one of the best mums I know.
“I suspect a large amount of hyperbole has gone into this, and you are taking things a bit too literally.”
But amazinggracie was still unimpressed, writing: “If it’s a big joke then I’ll accept that but it’s just in really bad taste.
“I can’t see the humour in leaving your kids alone in a hotel room”. https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/4534502/mum-sparks-furious-debate-drugs-kids-leaves-them-alone-hotel-room/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: stephen25000 on September 24, 2017, 06:20:36 PM
This seems to bring out strong opinions on both sides. I think it clouds the issue when it's children. Looking at these actions in another way might help. Is it OK to drug your partner so you can nip out and meet your lover, for example? Is it OK to drug an elderly relative you care for so you can have a night out? No matter what the age or mental capacity of the person, is it ever ethical to medicate them for your own ends?
MUMBELIEVABLE Mum sparks furious debate after saying she drugs her kids and leaves them alone in hotel room Some shocked mums asked if the 'self-centred parents' had 'learned nothing from Madeleine McCann' By Josie Griffiths 24th September 2017, 12:02 pm Updated: 24th September 2017, 12:28 pm
A SHOCKED mum has asked for advice after an Instagram user boasted about “drugging her children and leaving them alone in a hotel room” – but is all as it seems?
Mumsnet user amazinggracie was horrified when a woman she follows, who is on holiday in Geneva with her husband and two kids, shared the post last night.
There’s been shock on Mumsnet after a woman boasted about ‘drugging’ her kids before leaving them alone to go to the hotel bar with her husband
In her “horrendous” Instagram story, the unnamed mum-of-two is said to have “given the kids Piriton to get them to sleep.”
Piriton is an allergy relief drug which can cause drowsiness in both children and adults.
According to the thread, the woman then went and “joined her husband in the bar, leaving her phone in the room connected to Skype to her husband’s phone so they could see them while they were in the bar.”
“I just feel all kinds of uncomfortable,” amazinggracie added. “Surely people don’t do this??
“I should add that she’d posted support from her other followers who were hailing it a great idea”.
Many of her fellow mums were equally shocked.
The Instagram user claims to have given her kids Piriton to make them drowsy – but some suspect it’s just a ‘bad taste joke’
Among them was TheStoic, who wrote: “So she posted that she drugged her children and left them alone in a hotel room? Can you post a screenshot?”
While HiJenny35 wrote: “What drug your children so you can go on the p***, no that’s not ok”.
And YellowFlower201 added: “Crazy!!! Leaving them is bad enough but drugging them is just madness.”
One mum said said: “I would literally take a screenshot and inform social services when they get back.
“How can you drug your kids?! And then leave them alone in a hotel room?!
“Did bloody idiotic self-centred parents learn nothing from Madeleine McCann?”
While another concerned parent said of the decision: “What a risk to take.”
But other mums were less worried about the post.
One wrote: “It’s definitely not a crime to give kids Piriton for sleep as my GP prescribed it for DD (dear daughter) at one stage.
“I also doubt it’s a crime to leave them in a hotel room if you’re watching them via a link the entire time.”
Another mum agreed, adding: “FFS (for f***s sake) get a grip people, this is not the work of the devil, it is at most a tad irresponsible”.
While others suspected the entire thing was nothing more than a “bad taste” joke.
One commenter said: “I know the lady you are referring to and she is one of the best mums I know.
“I suspect a large amount of hyperbole has gone into this, and you are taking things a bit too literally.”
But amazinggracie was still unimpressed, writing: “If it’s a big joke then I’ll accept that but it’s just in really bad taste.
“I can’t see the humour in leaving your kids alone in a hotel room”. https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/4534502/mum-sparks-furious-debate-drugs-kids-leaves-them-alone-hotel-room/
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Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 24, 2017, 08:43:10 PM
I like the idea of using Skype to keep an eye on your room. If baby monitors are acceptable so should Skype be. Even more so for you can get a video image and have a way of saving the file on a flash drive. Very modern parenting.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 31, 2017, 12:21:01 AM
'OFFENSIVE AND CRUEL' Madeleine McCann’s parents Kate and Gerry’s fury as ‘idiot’ dresses up in sick Maddie outfit for Halloween
Maddie's parents said the 25-year-old, from Dundee, "should know better at his age"
Exclusive By Tracey Kandohla, Ellie Cambridge and John Shammas Published 30th October 2017
A HALLOWEEN reveller has been slammed by the parents of Madeleine McCann after he dressed up as their missing daughter for Halloween for a sick joke.
Daniel Gearie posted a picture of himself wearing a blonde wig and an Everton shirt on Twitter yesterday, next to a famous photo of the missing youngster in the same outfit.
The 25-year-old, from Dundee, who has since made his account private, tweeted "you've taken it too far daniel".
Adding: "And before you say 'this is sick' etc I know it is but I'm not the one who left a child unattended in a Portuguese hotel."
A spokesman for the McCann family said: "Kate and Gerry think he's an idiot and at his age should know better. What he did was deeply offensive and cruel."
Gerry and Kate McCann left their three children sleeping in their apartment while they dined at a tapas bar - 120 metres away while on holiday in 2007.
Read full article here... (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4798852/madeleine-mccann-parents-kate-gerry-maddie-halloween-costume/)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on October 31, 2017, 07:53:33 AM
Why did he do it? To get attention. Which The Sun has given him.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on October 31, 2017, 12:24:35 PM
I like the idea of using Skype to keep an eye on your room. If baby monitors are acceptable so should Skype be. Even more so for you can get a video image and have a way of saving the file on a flash drive. Very modern parenting.
I like it too, but would you need two computers? A bit of a fag to have to take two on holiday.
Another device would be to take a small security camera that you can link to your phone. If the place was in complete darkness, you would need an infra red light too.
I am not a techie so cannot answer questions about these devices but have seen them in action .... very good.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 31, 2017, 03:26:01 PM
I like it too, but would you need two computers? A bit of a fag to have to take two on holiday.
Another device would be to take a small security camera that you can link to your phone. If the place was in complete darkness, you would need an infra red light too.
I am not a techie so cannot answer questions about these devices but have seen them in action .... very good.
My son had that for his flat in Auckland. If there was motion he would get a message on his phone even though he was down here in Levin.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 31, 2017, 07:45:47 PM
My son had that for his flat in Auckland. If there was motion he would get a message on his phone even though he was down here in Levin.
Yes that would come under IoT (Internet of Things). Wifi has enabled a great many products to be controlled by smart phones and other hand held devices. a great deal 'progress' is in place with this new technology. But what is wrong with parents looking after their children and having them dine with them?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on October 31, 2017, 10:55:09 PM
My son had that for his flat in Auckland. If there was motion he would get a message on his phone even though he was down here in Levin.
A friend of ours has such a security camera in several places including his aged parents home miles away, and his own home in several places, outside and inside. Where ever he is in the world, he can see what is going on in these places on his Ipad (split screen mini photos).
They would be brilliant as child monitors and at the same time keeping an eye in their home back in the UK
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 31, 2017, 11:28:49 PM
A friend of ours has such a security camera in several places including his aged parents home miles away, and his own home in several places, outside and inside. Where ever he is in the world, he can see what is going on in these places on his Ipad (split screen mini photos).
They would be brilliant as child monitors and at the same time keeping an eye in their home back in the UK
I suppose if you see something going wrong you could call the police. Even if you are not there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on November 02, 2017, 01:53:53 PM
Normal sociable kids lurve these creches. Why deprive them of their enjoyment when they can share their time with you and this fun
Once they were trained to accept it, yes.
Amelie, true to form, was completely unfazed; sensitive Sean, when it came to it, was initially a bit upset, all of which was situation normal with the twins. [madeleine]
Erm, Evie when we dropped off, would have a bit, a few tears like a lot of young kids do when you leave them at nursery, http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
I seem to recall too one of the Paynes avoiding being seen by theirs because they would cry to be with Mum and Dad if they saw them, but I can't find the quote atm.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 03, 2017, 06:29:57 PM
How desperate for sales or whatever are The Sun to drag Madeleine's name into this story?
DEATH PLUNGE MYSTERY Maddie cops probing death of Brit man and his wife who fell 50ft from Portugal apartment https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4835170/maddie-cops-probing-death-of-brit-man-and-his-wife-who-fell-50ft-from-portugal-apartment/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on November 03, 2017, 06:48:26 PM
How desperate for sales or whatever are The Sun to drag Madeleine's name into this story?
DEATH PLUNGE MYSTERY Maddie cops probing death of Brit man and his wife who fell 50ft from Portugal apartment https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4835170/maddie-cops-probing-death-of-brit-man-and-his-wife-who-fell-50ft-from-portugal-apartment/
It's only about 300 klicks away so the connection is obvious.
"Kray Twin cops probing the disappearance of MBM".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on February 01, 2018, 01:26:00 AM
‘PARTY TINGED WITH SADNESS’ Madeleine McCann’s parents celebrate twins becoming teens with prayers for missing daughter ‘wherever she is’.
Sean and Amelie were just aged two when Maddie's vanished in Praia da Luz in Portugal on May 3 2007
(http://i.imgur.com/CumYM2C.jpg?1)
By Tracey Kandohla 1st February 2018
THE parents of Madeleine McCann are today celebrating their twins becoming teenagers with prayers too for their missing daughter “wherever she is.”
Kate and Gerry cling onto a glimmer of hope their eldest child could still be alive and are remembering her during a joint 13th birthday party for her siblings.
As Maddie’s younger brother and sister blow out candles on their cake a family pal said: “Their only wish is for their big sister to come home.”
Sean and Amelie, who are both aspiring amateur athletes, are having a special milestone celebration with friends and family.
One guest said: “There will be prayers to remember Madeleine as well wherever she is. Kate and Gerry want to give the twins a memorable occasion, they’re teenagers now and that’s a big deal.
“But the party will be marred with a tinge of sadness because Madeleine is not here to join in the fun.”
Home Office 'to give Scotland Yard another £154,000 to fund Madeleine McCann search'
Three-year-old Maddie vanished from a Portuguese holiday apartment nearly 11 years ago.
British police continue to search for her and have not ruled out the possibility of finding her alive despite failing to unearth any new clues. She would now be aged 14.
Her parents are bravely trying to mark the double birthdays in “as normal way as possible” for the sake of the twins.
Former GP Kate, now a medical worker, has previously told how the family often pray for Maddie’s safe return and always remember her on key occasions.
She said her twins have “grown up essentially without Madeleine but knowing their sister is missing and they want her back.”
The anguished mum, speaking in the past to promote her charity Missing People of which she is an ambassador, added: “They have their own friends and they keep busy and they’re really sporty but their only wish is for their big sister to come home. We miss our complete family of five.
“As a family 98 per cent of the time we’re busy. I don’t know if that’s a conscious thing but it helps. The urge to look for Madeleine absolutely hasn’t changed at all.”
Kate and renowned heart doctor Gerry, both 49, of Rothley, Leics, celebrate their own milestone 50th birthdays this spring.
Sean and Amelie attend a Catholic secondary school in nearby Loughborough which still holds a place for their big sister and hopes one day to welcome her as a pupil.
‘PARTY TINGED WITH SADNESS’ Madeleine McCann’s parents celebrate twins becoming teens with prayers for missing daughter ‘wherever she is’.
Sean and Amelie were just aged two when Maddie's vanished in Praia da Luz in Portugal on May 3 2007
(http://i.imgur.com/CumYM2C.jpg?1)
By Tracey Kandohla 1st February 2018
THE parents of Madeleine McCann are today celebrating their twins becoming teenagers with prayers too for their missing daughter “wherever she is.”
Kate and Gerry cling onto a glimmer of hope their eldest child could still be alive and are remembering her during a joint 13th birthday party for her siblings.
As Maddie’s younger brother and sister blow out candles on their cake a family pal said: “Their only wish is for their big sister to come home.”
Sean and Amelie, who are both aspiring amateur athletes, are having a special milestone celebration with friends and family.
One guest said: “There will be prayers to remember Madeleine as well wherever she is. Kate and Gerry want to give the twins a memorable occasion, they’re teenagers now and that’s a big deal.
“But the party will be marred with a tinge of sadness because Madeleine is not here to join in the fun.”
Home Office 'to give Scotland Yard another £154,000 to fund Madeleine McCann search'
Three-year-old Maddie vanished from a Portuguese holiday apartment nearly 11 years ago.
British police continue to search for her and have not ruled out the possibility of finding her alive despite failing to unearth any new clues. She would now be aged 14.
Her parents are bravely trying to mark the double birthdays in “as normal way as possible” for the sake of the twins.
Former GP Kate, now a medical worker, has previously told how the family often pray for Maddie’s safe return and always remember her on key occasions.
She said her twins have “grown up essentially without Madeleine but knowing their sister is missing and they want her back.”
The anguished mum, speaking in the past to promote her charity Missing People of which she is an ambassador, added: “They have their own friends and they keep busy and they’re really sporty but their only wish is for their big sister to come home. We miss our complete family of five.
“As a family 98 per cent of the time we’re busy. I don’t know if that’s a conscious thing but it helps. The urge to look for Madeleine absolutely hasn’t changed at all.”
Kate and renowned heart doctor Gerry, both 49, of Rothley, Leics, celebrate their own milestone 50th birthdays this spring.
Sean and Amelie attend a Catholic secondary school in nearby Loughborough which still holds a place for their big sister and hopes one day to welcome her as a pupil.
‘PARTY TINGED WITH SADNESS’ Madeleine McCann’s parents celebrate twins becoming teens with prayers for missing daughter ‘wherever she is’.
Sean and Amelie were just aged two when Maddie's vanished in Praia da Luz in Portugal on May 3 2007
(http://i.imgur.com/CumYM2C.jpg?1)
By Tracey Kandohla 1st February 2018
THE parents of Madeleine McCann are today celebrating their twins becoming teenagers with prayers too for their missing daughter “wherever she is.”
Kate and Gerry cling onto a glimmer of hope their eldest child could still be alive and are remembering her during a joint 13th birthday party for her siblings.
As Maddie’s younger brother and sister blow out candles on their cake a family pal said: “Their only wish is for their big sister to come home.”
Sean and Amelie, who are both aspiring amateur athletes, are having a special milestone celebration with friends and family.
One guest said: “There will be prayers to remember Madeleine as well wherever she is. Kate and Gerry want to give the twins a memorable occasion, they’re teenagers now and that’s a big deal.
“But the party will be marred with a tinge of sadness because Madeleine is not here to join in the fun.”
Home Office 'to give Scotland Yard another £154,000 to fund Madeleine McCann search'
Three-year-old Maddie vanished from a Portuguese holiday apartment nearly 11 years ago.
British police continue to search for her and have not ruled out the possibility of finding her alive despite failing to unearth any new clues. She would now be aged 14.
Her parents are bravely trying to mark the double birthdays in “as normal way as possible” for the sake of the twins.
Former GP Kate, now a medical worker, has previously told how the family often pray for Maddie’s safe return and always remember her on key occasions.
She said her twins have “grown up essentially without Madeleine but knowing their sister is missing and they want her back.”
The anguished mum, speaking in the past to promote her charity Missing People of which she is an ambassador, added: “They have their own friends and they keep busy and they’re really sporty but their only wish is for their big sister to come home. We miss our complete family of five.
“As a family 98 per cent of the time we’re busy. I don’t know if that’s a conscious thing but it helps. The urge to look for Madeleine absolutely hasn’t changed at all.”
Kate and renowned heart doctor Gerry, both 49, of Rothley, Leics, celebrate their own milestone 50th birthdays this spring.
Sean and Amelie attend a Catholic secondary school in nearby Loughborough which still holds a place for their big sister and hopes one day to welcome her as a pupil.
My, my. I'd forgot how grief-stricken the parents were in the early days. Brings it all back.
Now you are not being entirely truthful, are you? Sceptics have endlessly posted photos of the happy, delighted parents for over ten years and many, many times have discussed the joy on their faces in those early days.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 01, 2018, 10:50:20 AM
Now you are not being entirely truthful, are you? Sceptics have endlessly posted photos of the happy, delighted parents for over ten years and many, many times have discussed the joy on their faces in those early days.
Don't you think they look grief-stricken ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on February 01, 2018, 10:53:04 AM
There were 42 comments when I read this article earlier today. Credit where it's due, at least one of the comments I read wasn't blaming the McCanns for child neglect or accusing them or knowing where Maddie is.
I feel sorry for the twins, they'll have to live their teenage years having Kate & Gerry breathing down their necks every time they go online.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 01, 2018, 03:13:46 PM
There were 42 comments when I read this article earlier today. Credit where it's due, at least one of the comments I read wasn't blaming the McCanns for child neglect or accusing them or knowing where Maddie is.
I feel sorry for the twins, they'll have to live their teenage years having Kate & Gerry breathing down their necks every time they go online.
Another own goal for whatshername.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 01, 2018, 03:22:04 PM
There were 42 comments when I read this article earlier today. Credit where it's due, at least one of the comments I read wasn't blaming the McCanns for child neglect or accusing them or knowing where Maddie is.
I feel sorry for the twins, they'll have to live their teenage years having Kate & Gerry breathing down their necks every time they go online.
Actually, I think the twins will have had to be educated about the filth they will encounter when they go on line; the individuals you should really feel sorrow for are the inadequates who derive some sort of satisfaction and define themselves and think they are gaining kudos from being able to post an inane couple of sentences after a newspaper article. I think they epitomise the dregs ... but one must also allow for feeling sympathy for their plight.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 01, 2018, 03:35:45 PM
There were 42 comments when I read this article earlier today. Credit where it's due, at least one of the comments I read wasn't blaming the McCanns for child neglect or accusing them or knowing where Maddie is.
I feel sorry for the twins, they'll have to live their teenage years having Kate & Gerry breathing down their necks every time they go online.
I think the twins will soon learn to ignore some of the rubbish on the net
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 01, 2018, 03:36:20 PM
Actually, I think the twins will have had to be educated about the filth they will encounter when they go on line; the individuals you should really feel sorrow for are the inadequates who derive some sort of satisfaction and define themselves and think they are gaining kudos from being able to post an inane couple of sentences after a newspaper article. I think they epitomise the dregs ... but one must also allow for feeling sympathy for their plight.
I think, when the twins are educated enough, they'll search online, maybe see that clip of the CSI dog, his head snapping back, as he barks, at their mothers clothes & at the wardrobe & the hire car, & then they'll reach their own conclusions. And that will be more of a problem to the McCann's than any posed by some inadequate dregs posting about child neglect.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on February 01, 2018, 03:45:42 PM
There were 42 comments when I read this article earlier today. Credit where it's due, at least one of the comments I read wasn't blaming the McCanns for child neglect or accusing them or knowing where Maddie is.
I feel sorry for the twins, they'll have to live their teenage years having Kate & Gerry breathing down their necks every time they go online.
Many teenagers have their parents carefully monitoring their online viewing.Im sure the twins have been helped to prepare for the vitriol which has been directed at their mother and father. It will not be easy for them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 01, 2018, 03:46:39 PM
I think, when the twins are educated enough, they'll search online, maybe see that clip of the CSI dog, his head snapping back, as he barks, at their mothers clothes & at the wardrobe & the hire car, & then they'll reach their own conclusions. And that will be more of a problem to the McCann's than any posed by some inadequate dregs posting about child neglect.
and the twins will be educated and intelligent enough to understand the alerts have no value...imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 01, 2018, 03:48:27 PM
I think, when the twins are educated enough, they'll search online, maybe see that clip of the CSI dog, his head snapping back, as he barks, at their mothers clothes & at the wardrobe & the hire car, & then they'll reach their own conclusions. And that will be more of a problem to the McCann's than any posed by some inadequate dregs posting about child neglect.
After 12 years of indoctrination, they probably now believe they actually saw the intruder
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 01, 2018, 03:52:45 PM
People have been known to confess just through the pressure of interrogation. There was a case in NZ Teina Pora. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teina_Pora#Pora's_confession
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 01, 2018, 11:11:14 PM
Nice example, given the perpetrators of said child's disappearance.
Shannon Matthews was a missing child for whom the police were looking. Houses were searched. Cadaver dogs alerted. Shannon was recovered alive.
A nice example of a missing child being recovered alive despite the cadaver dogs being used to locate her reacting to the scent they had been trained to react to. The only thing being ... whatever the dogs alerted to ... it wasn't Shannon.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 02, 2018, 01:18:39 AM
And exactly how would you know what the charges brought against Kate would have been had she 'confessed'?
If she had confessed to actions more serious that corpse disposal, don't you think she should have been charged with more serious actions? This seems to be all about Kate and Madeleine doesn't get a look in.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 02, 2018, 07:32:18 AM
If she had confessed to actions more serious that corpse disposal, don't you think she should have been charged with more serious actions? This seems to be all about Kate and Madeleine doesn't get a look in.
thats your opinion again....much of this forum is criticism of the parents thats why threads take this line..imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 02, 2018, 08:12:50 AM
If she had confessed to actions more serious that corpse disposal, don't you think she should have been charged with more serious actions? This seems to be all about Kate and Madeleine doesn't get a look in.
If Madeleine is the "corpse" no, she won't get a look in.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 02, 2018, 08:43:32 AM
Shannon Matthews was a missing child for whom the police were looking. Houses were searched. Cadaver dogs alerted. Shannon was recovered alive.
A nice example of a missing child being recovered alive despite the cadaver dogs being used to locate her reacting to the scent they had been trained to react to. The only thing being ... whatever the dogs alerted to ... it wasn't Shannon.
A dead mans old matress iirc
Victim recovery dogs from four different police forces were used during searches for kidnapped schoolgirl Shannon Matthews in Dewsbury in West Yorkshire in 2008.
The dogs found evidence of dead bodies, but officers later discovered the corpses were nothing to do with her disappearance.
"The properties searched contained a high level of second-hand furniture bought from dwellings where someone had died," according to the NPIA report.
They find this abuse that they don't actually read to be 'shocking, striking and quite hard to get your head round' & 'so awful and upsetting.' Which is one good reason I don't intend to stop.
They find this abuse that they don't actually read to be 'shocking, striking and quite hard to get your head round' & 'so awful and upsetting.' Which is one good reason I don't intend to stop.
They find this abuse that they don't actually read to be 'shocking, striking and quite hard to get your head round' & 'so awful and upsetting.' Which is one good reason I don't intend to stop.
Why exactly do you think she would be in prison, if she had answered the questions.
They all seem straight forward, imo unless there is some ulterior motive.
There was an ulterior motive.... To try and find a reason to arrest her.... Innocent people can incriminate themselves.... That's why they have the right to silence... Imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kizzy on February 02, 2018, 10:11:25 AM
There was an ulterior motive.... To try and find a reason to arrest her.... Innocent people can incriminate themselves.... That's why they have the right to silence... Imo
The questions are straight forward, what questions, do you think would incriminate her.
IMO , they were very lenient, the way they treated them.
Surely if they were looking for a reason to arrest her, it would have been leaving the children alone. IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 02, 2018, 10:12:58 AM
There was an ulterior motive.... To try and find a reason to arrest her.... Innocent people can incriminate themselves.... That's why they have the right to silence... Imo
This is true.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 02, 2018, 10:15:46 AM
Maybe, just maybe, if she had answered the questions in question, she wouldn't be in the situation she finds herself.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 02, 2018, 11:51:11 AM
There was an ulterior motive.... To try and find a reason to arrest her.... Innocent people can incriminate themselves.... That's why they have the right to silence... Imo
IMO PJ thought they could get Kate to confess to occulting Madeleine's body (and maybe more) using a combination of Eddie's alerts & the nature of the questions asked. IMO that particular theory was thrown into chaos when Martin Smith came forward & said he was 60/80% sure the man he saw on the night of the 3rd carrying a child was Gerry. There were no alerts to any of Gerry's clothing. There was no evidence to implicate Gerry so he had no need to refuse to answer any questions, IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 02, 2018, 04:43:43 PM
No cite then. Nor a cite for Gerry being incensed.
Im sure I will be able to find one but its a little late...perhaps when I do you can apologise ....as they both had the same lawyer it would be strange if he advised kate not to answer but didnt give the same advice to gerry.....dont you think
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 02, 2018, 10:53:14 PM
Im sure I will be able to find one but its a little late...perhaps when I do you can apologise ....as they both had the same lawyer it would be strange if he advised kate not to answer but didnt give the same advice to gerry.....dont you think
The only evidence that Gerry was advised to keep silent is in Kate's book; she says he was, but she wasn't there when it took place;
7th September Today Carlos had advised me not to answer any of the questions put to me. [madeleine]
Gerry wasn't there, he arrived later so they didn't get advised together;
As I walked out of the interview room at 3.15pm, Gerry was on his way to Portimão for his interrogation. I wasn’t allowed to see him but I had been able to speak to him on the phone [madeleine]
Gerry wasn’t back from his interrogation until 1.30am. Like me, he was officially declared an arguido at the start of the proceedings. His intention had been to take Carlos’s advice, as I had done, and refuse to answer any questions [madeleine]
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 02, 2018, 10:55:40 PM
The only evidence that Gerry was advised to keep silent is in Kate's book; she says he was, but she wasn't there when it took place;
7th September Today Carlos had advised me not to answer any of the questions put to me. [madeleine]
Gerry wasn't there, he arrived later so they didn't get advised together;
As I walked out of the interview room at 3.15pm, Gerry was on his way to Portimão for his interrogation. I wasn’t allowed to see him but I had been able to speak to him on the phone [madeleine]
Gerry wasn’t back from his interrogation until 1.30am. Like me, he was officially declared an arguido at the start of the proceedings. His intention had been to take Carlos’s advice, as I had done, and refuse to answer any questions [madeleine]
cite provided
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 03, 2018, 06:49:45 AM
The only evidence that Gerry was advised to keep silent is in Kate's book; she says he was, but she wasn't there when it took place;
7th September Today Carlos had advised me not to answer any of the questions put to me. [madeleine]
Gerry wasn't there, he arrived later so they didn't get advised together;
As I walked out of the interview room at 3.15pm, Gerry was on his way to Portimão for his interrogation. I wasn’t allowed to see him but I had been able to speak to him on the phone [madeleine]
Gerry wasn’t back from his interrogation until 1.30am. Like me, he was officially declared an arguido at the start of the proceedings. His intention had been to take Carlos’s advice, as I had done, and refuse to answer any questions [madeleine]
What the lawyer said to Gerry and reported by Kate would be a classic hearsay situation, and hence would hardly be classed as a factual event. IMO of course for I'm not a lawyer.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2018, 08:06:39 AM
What the lawyer said to Gerry and reported by Kate would be a classic hearsay situation, and hence would hardly be classed as a factual event. IMO of course for I'm not a lawyer.
It's a fact that Kate wrote it in her book. Whether it's a fact that the lawyer advised Gerry to stay silent depends on whether the reader sees Kate as a reliable source.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 03, 2018, 08:47:28 AM
It's a fact that Kate wrote it in her book. Whether it's a fact that the lawyer advised Gerry to stay silent depends on whether the reader sees Kate as a reliable source.
But in a hearsay situation we are dependent on both Kate and Gerry reporting the situation correctly. It is definitely "information received from other people which cannot be substantiated"
noun information received from other people which cannot be substantiated; rumour. "according to hearsay, Bez had managed to break his arm" synonyms: rumour, gossip, tittle-tattle, tattle, idle chatter, idle talk, mere talk, report; More LAW the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law. "everything they had told him would have been ruled out as hearsay"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 03, 2018, 09:44:03 AM
It's a fact that Kate wrote it in her book. Whether it's a fact that the lawyer advised Gerry to stay silent depends on whether the reader sees Kate as a reliable source.
I have been asked to provide a cite...which I have via you. I was not asked to provide proof of the statement
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 03, 2018, 10:37:19 AM
I have been asked to provide a cite...which I have via you. I was not asked to provide proof of the statement
But I question whether you can use hearsay evidence as proof. The cite you use is hearsay therefore does not prove your point IMO. It might be the cite you remember but the cite does not back the statement IMO. I appreciate it is a tricky situation for Kate may genuinely believe Gerry was told to remain silent, but she didn't hear that lawyer saying that to him herself, but Gerry tells her, according to Kate, that he was told to remain silent. And then Gerry does not follow the advice. So should we just accept that as gospel?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 03, 2018, 10:40:07 AM
But I question whether you can use hearsay evidence as proof. The cite you use is hearsay therefore does not prove your point IMO. It might be the cite you remember but the cite does not back the statement IMO. I appreciate it is a tricky situation for Kate may genuinely believe Gerry was told to remain silent, but she didn't hear that lawyer saying that to him herself, but Gerry tells her, according to Kate, that he was told to remain silent. And then Gerry does not follow the advice. So should we just accept that as gospel?
Note... I was not asked for proof I was, asked for a cite
You can accept it as you wish but it is a cite
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 03, 2018, 10:44:04 AM
If everyone wants proven cites then we might as well give up.
I think a cite should attempt to meet the definition of the word. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9105.msg444528#msg444528 It should be a cite that supports the statement not just any citation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 03, 2018, 10:59:39 AM
If everyone wants proven cites then we might as well give up.
But if were to say I've just read elsewhere that Mr Smith has never retracted his statement regards the sighting on the night of 3rd May 2007 and remain's with a certain degree of percentage of whom he saw would the forum accept it or would a cite be required?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 03, 2018, 11:04:51 AM
But if were to say I've just read elsewhere that Mr Smith has never retracted his statement regards the sighting on the night of 3rd May 2007 and remain's with a certain degree of percentage of whom he saw would the forum accept it or would a cite be required?
you would provide the cite and others could make up their minds how reliable it was...a cite is not proof is the point i made
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 03, 2018, 11:05:30 AM
But if were to say I've just read elsewhere that Mr Smith has never retracted his statement regards the sighting on the night of 3rd May 2007 and remain's with a certain degree of percentage of whom he saw would the forum accept it or would a cite be required?
I found it all so much more lively when Posters made statements and some other Posters proved it or not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 03, 2018, 11:07:18 AM
I found it all so much more lively when Posters made statements and some other Posters proved it or not.
so did I...the forum has got to restrictive...imo of course. The fact that I am unable to post without adding imo to everything proves the point...imo of course
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 03, 2018, 11:08:29 AM
But if were to say I've just read elsewhere that Mr Smith has never retracted his statement regards the sighting on the night of 3rd May 2007 and remain's with a certain degree of percentage of whom he saw would the forum accept it or would a cite be required?
Since Mr. Smith's original statement quoted 60% to 80% his statement itself is ambiguous and in some doubt.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2018, 11:16:27 AM
I have been asked to provide a cite...which I have via you. I was not asked to provide proof of the statement
I know. I was answering a different point raised by Rob. A better cite would have been a direct quote from Gerry or the lawyer saying he was advised to be silent, but I don't think either of them have commented.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 03, 2018, 11:19:00 AM
I know. I was answering a different point raised by Rob. A better cite would have been a direct quote from Gerry or the lawyer saying he was advised to be silent, but I don't think either of them have commented.
i think we all understand that but imo its unlikely that the lawyer advised kate not to answer and not gerry...secondly I dont remember you questioning kates account of the advice before
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2018, 11:29:52 AM
I found it all so much more lively when Posters made statements and some other Posters proved it or not.
I disagree. Why should members be expected to research whether another members post is correct r not? Without cites being provided entire threads end up discussing things which may never have happened.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 03, 2018, 11:34:46 AM
That's news to me. Is there a cite? Or was that an IYO?
Incensed is the exact word Kate uses in her book to describe how gerry felt when asked the questions and that is why he decided to ignore the lawyers advice...according to Kate. The fact that it is news to you shows how incomplete your knowledge of the case is
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 03, 2018, 11:36:20 AM
I disagree. Why should members be expected to research whether another members post is correct r not? Without cites being provided entire threads end up discussing things which may never have happened.
Entire Threads do end up discussing things that may never have happened.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 03, 2018, 11:39:55 AM
Seeing as the court and jury of Jf holds no sway its subjective.
In your opinion
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 03, 2018, 12:02:18 PM
Nonsense that certain posters on here claimed witness Martin Smith had changed his mind. He's never changed his mind about the sighting.
Gemma O'Doherty @gemmaod1 36 minutes ago
Louth man Martin Smith has confirmed he remains 60-80% sure he saw Gerry McCann carrying a child on the night Madeleine disappeared. Police are keen to talk to the man he saw, who has yet to come forward and identify himself. My report is in @VillageMagIRE today #McCann
i think we all understand that but imo its unlikely that the lawyer advised kate not to answer and not gerry...secondly I dont remember you questioning kates account of the advice before
Why do you think it's unlikely that the lawyer gave different advice to Kate and Gerry? It was Kate that the lawyer warned on 6th;
Carlos came over and told me not to be so definite in some of my answers. [madeleine]
She was more volatile than Gerry, as Fiona says;
And Gerry, that's the way he was seeing things, he was very, erm, aware that he had to work with the, with the Police here and be sensible about their approach with the media and everything and Kate's very reactive, you know, she's, she's a completely different personality and, you know, if she's angry she'll show she's angry and when she's upset she'll show she's upset, whereas Gerry can be, erm, he's more able to, to sort of see through all that and just think, hang on what's right for, what's right, what's going to get us further forward here, you know, getting upset and screaming at the Police isn't going to get us anywhere and he's always sort of pulling Kate back a bit really and saying, 'Look, that that's not going to help, we've got to do this', erm and that's just the way they are, and that's the way, before this happened, that's the personalities they are. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm
If Abreu noticed their different personalities he may well have given them different advice.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 03, 2018, 12:26:56 PM
If we look at what john says...Amaral deliberately altered a timesheet to try and help his officers avoid prosecution...thats perverting the course of justice and a serious offence....why would he need to do this if they were innocent
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 12, 2018, 05:59:24 PM
More funding for Madeleine McCann search requested by police
Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have requested more money from the Home Office, Sky News has learned.
Funding for the Scotland Yard investigation is due to run out at the end of March, Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said.
But officers have now asked that extra cash be provided to keep it going until the end of September, he added.
Scotland Yard is "keen to continue its investigation", he explained.
"The situation at the moment," he said, "is that there is Home Office funding to keep Scotland Yard's part of the joint investigation with the Portuguese going until the end of March.
"But Scotland Yard has asked for more money."
It is not known how much money is being requested, and Martin Brunt said it "may be some time" before Home Office ministers make a decision.
"Clearly Scotland Yard feels it hasn't come to the end of the line," he added.
Last May, on the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance, Scotland Yard said it had one critical piece of work still to do, but did not say what it was.
Martin Brunt said that as he understood it, it was a "final theory that was very complicated", and involved "a lot of sensitive diplomacy".
It was "likely to take some time to find the clues, if they were there".
The investigation team, which once numbered 30 officers, is now down to four.
The Home Office said in a statement: "Resources required are reviewed regularly, with careful consideration given before any new funding is allocated.
"The Metropolitan Police has made a further application for funding, which is currently being considered."
More funding for Madeleine McCann search requested by police
Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have requested more money from the Home Office, Sky News has learned.
Funding for the Scotland Yard investigation is due to run out at the end of March, Sky's Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said.
But officers have now asked that extra cash be provided to keep it going until the end of September, he added.
Scotland Yard is "keen to continue its investigation", he explained.
"The situation at the moment," he said, "is that there is Home Office funding to keep Scotland Yard's part of the joint investigation with the Portuguese going until the end of March.
"But Scotland Yard has asked for more money."
It is not known how much money is being requested, and Martin Brunt said it "may be some time" before Home Office ministers make a decision.
"Clearly Scotland Yard feels it hasn't come to the end of the line," he added.
Last May, on the tenth anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance, Scotland Yard said it had one critical piece of work still to do, but did not say what it was.
Martin Brunt said that as he understood it, it was a "final theory that was very complicated", and involved "a lot of sensitive diplomacy".
It was "likely to take some time to find the clues, if they were there".
The investigation team, which once numbered 30 officers, is now down to four.
The Home Office said in a statement: "Resources required are reviewed regularly, with careful consideration given before any new funding is allocated.
"The Metropolitan Police has made a further application for funding, which is currently being considered."
And if they knew her whereabouts why would they be requesting funding to September ?
"Oh yes. I'm loving the words 'complicated' & 'sensitive diplomacy'." Misty
A sentiment with which I concur wholeheartedly 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 13, 2018, 09:59:40 AM
If they knew her whereabouts in another country, it would be more likely for the Foreign Office and the CPS to be involved, rather than the police, so there wouldn't be the need for extra funding.
IMO this has nothing to do with that but is for further investigation of a potential culprit in conjunction with the Portuguese.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 13, 2018, 10:05:04 AM
If they knew her whereabouts in another country, it would be more likely for the Foreign Office and the CPS to be involved, rather than the police, so there wouldn't be the need for extra funding.
IMO this has nothing to do with that but is for further investigation of a potential culprit in conjunction with the Portuguese.
With the amount of time it's taking I think it's more likely to involve rotatory letters.... So not really in conjunction with the Portuguese
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on February 13, 2018, 10:05:14 AM
Police don't do extradition. That's down to another part of the justice system.
They first have to conclusively prove that it is Madeleine. This can only be done with cooperation and a chain of evidence. This could well not be given willingly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 13, 2018, 10:22:40 AM
Portugal had a lot of colonies and dependencies sprinkled throughout the world where Portuguese is still spoken ... so any of those?
But whatever ... I don't imagine it would be easy to extradite a child from anywhere ... even if her parents had the foresight to have her declared a Ward of Court.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on February 13, 2018, 10:26:21 AM
Seeing as the brit police have no jurisdiction in Portugal that is stating the obvious imo.
And PT doesn't have the same resources...
Here, PJ police are famous for playing their cards close to their chests. Last week national director Pedro do Carmo told the Resident that Portuguese costs in the hunt that began eight years ago “cannot be quantified”.
“We don’t have budgets for specific investigations”, he explained, adding that, unlike the UK - where Grange has a 30-strong team working full time - the PJ team in Porto running the Portuguese hunt is not exclusively working on the British toddler’s disappearance.
“It has other cases”, he told us. “Other disappearances. None of them children”.
Carmo said the Portuguese investigation was analysed regularly.
“If it comes to a point where there is nothing more that we think we can do, if there is no perpetrator of the crime to be found, then the next step would be to archive”, he agreed. But for the time being, “there is no deadline”.
“We are still working with the Metropolitan Police”, he stressed, and there has been an “enormous effort” in terms of PJ resources in the joint police collaboration.
You don't extradite a child from South America very easily.
When Biggs was found the world and its wife were informed,with the much publicised investigation into Madeleine's disappearance any notion of her being any where would soon draw attention.Redwood 2014:“There is always the potential that she didn’t leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options,” he said.Still nothing to confirm either way.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 13, 2018, 10:29:41 AM
Portugal had a lot of colonies and dependencies sprinkled throughout the world where Portuguese is still spoken ... so any of those?
But whatever ... I don't imagine it would be easy to extradite a child from anywhere ... even if her parents had the foresight to have her declared a Ward of Court.
I would imagine the government of any country would be falling over themselves to be helpful when a child is involved, especially a child as famous as Madeleine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 13, 2018, 10:34:42 AM
When Biggs was found the world and its wife were informed,with the much publicised investigation into Madeleine's disappearance any notion of her being any where would soon draw attention.Redwood 2014:“There is always the potential that she didn’t leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options,” he said.Still nothing to confirm either way.
I think the problem with Biggs was mainly to do with the law of the country where he was living, had married a national and fathered a child? Was he not rushed off their hands tout suite when his marriage failed?
However in my opinion the circumstances are not comparable.
Biggs was a fugitive from justice.
Madeleine is a missing person.
The fact that MPS have requested further funding is in my opinion a confirmation of sorts. Make of it what you like ... I find it another hopeful development.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 13, 2018, 10:36:37 AM
When Biggs was found the world and its wife were informed,with the much publicised investigation into Madeleine's disappearance any notion of her being any where would soon draw attention.Redwood 2014:“There is always the potential that she didn’t leave the apartment alive. What is important for us to do is consider all the options,” he said.Still nothing to confirm either way.
This is probably why they are keeping quiet. They wouldn't want her to vanish again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 13, 2018, 10:38:04 AM
I would imagine the government of any country would be falling over themselves to be helpful when a child is involved, especially a child as famous as Madeleine.
Some South American countries don't do extradition.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 13, 2018, 10:38:20 AM
I would imagine the government of any country would be falling over themselves to be helpful when a child is involved, especially a child as famous as Madeleine.
... and you know that inter governmental cooperation isn't in operation using existing channels ... how?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 13, 2018, 10:39:57 AM
Portugal had a lot of colonies and dependencies sprinkled throughout the world where Portuguese is still spoken ... so any of those?
But whatever ... I don't imagine it would be easy to extradite a child from anywhere ... even if her parents had the foresight to have her declared a Ward of Court.
You don't extradite children, you repatriate them. I agree with Kate McCann however when she opined that Maddie never left the Algarve and can most probably be found close to Luz. Puzzling then why they bothered to spend a fortune searching for her in every country except Portugal. *%87
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 13, 2018, 11:30:10 AM
I think the problem with Biggs was mainly to do with the law of the country where he was living, had married a national and fathered a child? Was he not rushed off their hands tout suite when his marriage failed?
However in my opinion the circumstances are not comparable.
Biggs was a fugitive from justice.
Madeleine is a missing person.
The fact that MPS have requested further funding is in my opinion a confirmation of sorts. Make of it what you like ... I find it another hopeful development.
Its a confirmation of asking for more funding nothing more nothing less,which is strange in its self with the mirror article stating that the MET will not comment.Still we know what Rowley thinks of the rags.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 13, 2018, 11:43:40 AM
You don't extradite children, you repatriate them. I agree with Kate McCann however when she opined that Maddie never left the Algarve and can most probably be found close to Luz. Puzzling then why they bothered to spend a fortune searching for her in every country except Portugal. *%87
I think their private detectives were following the evidence in much the same way that Scotland Yard have been doing so where that may have taken them, who knows?
The thirteen children brought up in plain sight in America, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/16/thirteen-siblings-found-chained-starving-california-home-say/ were never on anyone's radar because they came from an area and a section of Americans who had a firm belief system in operation which included home schooling of their children.
If these thirteen were raised in hidden circumstances which would be of concern to most, in the middle of a well populated middle class residential area ... how easy might it be to raise one child with two or three 'siblings' under the radar in many other areas of the world, including the Algarve.
Wasn't there at least one McCann private detective who contemplated the possibility?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 13, 2018, 11:47:41 AM
Its a confirmation of asking for more funding nothing more nothing less,which is strange in its self with the mirror article stating that the MET will not comment.Still we know what Rowley thinks of the rags.
As far as I know there has been no comment made by anyone from Scotland Yard ... nor would I expect any.
Snip Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have applied for more funding for the search, the Home Office has confirmed. http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=31483
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on February 13, 2018, 12:38:40 PM
As long as they bring the guilty party to book it doesn’t matter if they are powerful or not.
If someone like a President of the US, or even a President of an alien country were involved, (money making from the mega world trafficking and narcotics set ups, rather than actual paedophilia per se) then it would need immense diplomacy and unbreakable proof. World Wars could be precipitated by an unsuccessful prosecution.
The same goes with a bunch of say European Royalty, they do intermarry and come from the same roots in large part .... and their ancient origins are pretty dicy in quite a few cases.
Or with someone like the Pope. Previous Popes have have historically had some pretty nasty things against them
All these people are virtually untouchable. The Police have to have enormous quality proof to prosecute such people. Altho it is likely, from history, that the head honcho will manage to come out of it smelling of roses and some poor sucker at a lower level will catch the charge instead
I hope I am wrong that any of these groups, or similar, could be the top baddies. Seems that SY have their teeth into something tho. Good luck to them. Let's make our children safer, let's get rid of the perps.
how lovely it would be to return Madeleine and Joana and other children to their rightful families and homes.
AIMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 13, 2018, 04:38:41 PM
You don't extradite children, you repatriate them. I agree with Kate McCann however when she opined that Maddie never left the Algarve and can most probably be found close to Luz. Puzzling then why they bothered to spend a fortune searching for her in every country except Portugal. *%87
Extradite, Repatriate. You can't just snatch anyone from the streets. Believing it's Madeleine just isn't good enough. There has to be documented proof. This could be hard to come by.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 13, 2018, 05:01:58 PM
As far as I know there has been no comment made by anyone from Scotland Yard ... nor would I expect any.
Snip Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have applied for more funding for the search, the Home Office has confirmed. http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=31483
Final lead like I've been saying for the past two years. This lead has been going on for a while no doubt i.e. SY and PJ working together on it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 13, 2018, 05:10:09 PM
Eleven Million and all that has entailed, to catch out a couple of Doctors that live in UK?
Mere nothing really when you consider that £2.7 million is spent each year in subsidising the bars & restaurants at Westminster http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4713580/Subsidy-MPs-bars-restaurants-rises-2-7m.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 13, 2018, 07:13:18 PM
Mere nothing really when you consider that £2.7 million is spent each year in subsidising the bars & restaurants at Westminster http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4713580/Subsidy-MPs-bars-restaurants-rises-2-7m.html
You are absolutely right of course. Why would anyone complain about 11 Million to find a missing child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 13, 2018, 07:46:23 PM
Whatever it takes; and it is worthy of note that few missing three year olds require twelve million to be spent on them years after the event as most of the necessary police work gets carried out without prejudice at the time of disappearance.
Just as an aside ... can you name a few of the missing children whose cases you equate with Madeleine's?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 13, 2018, 07:56:59 PM
It would seem from another thread where I bowled a Chinaman at 'em in that respect, that is not an option as they say but no one had the neck to say it was some children are more equal than others...... 8(>((
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 13, 2018, 08:40:59 PM
It would seem from another thread where I bowled a Chinaman at 'em in that respect, that is not an option as they say but no one had the neck to say it was some children are more equal than others...... 8(>((
Well we have to endure many posts about MBM being a 'special case and well worth 11.mil. Only special in the fact that parents went out every night for a drink and food and left her to fend for herself- poor wee mite what chance did she have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 13, 2018, 09:30:03 PM
The parents of the nameless ones ... unless you care to put a name to a couple?
Kate could name them.. she may have access to the Missing children's parents...Bit unfair to ask forum members questions they have not got access to. IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on February 13, 2018, 11:18:14 PM
You don't extradite children, you repatriate them. I agree with Kate McCann however when she opined that Maddie never left the Algarve and can most probably be found close to Luz. Puzzling then why they bothered to spend a fortune searching for her in every country except Portugal. *%87
Because SY obviously think that she has been kept elsewhere. Only a suggestion, but maybe Kate was encouraged to say that by the two police Forces to relax the perps.
I dont think that she has mainly been been kept in PT, but having said that, there are two areas of PT that particularly interest me .... so who knows?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on February 13, 2018, 11:19:30 PM
Because SY obviously think that she has been kept elsewhere. Only a suggestion, but maybe Kate was encouraged to say that by the two police Forces to relax the perps.
I dont think that she has mainly been been kept in PT, but having said that, there are two areas of PT that particularly interest me .... so who knows?
I have to agree with Kate on this one.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on February 13, 2018, 11:24:11 PM
It would seem from another thread where I bowled a Chinaman at 'em in that respect, that is not an option as they say but no one had the neck to say it was some children are more equal than others...... 8(>((
And it could be that they have greater leads on this case than on any other ...so likely to be more productive than any case with no significant leads.
This might stop (for a period anyway) child abductions, slave trading, narcotics, arms, sex trafficking. Any combination of those and probably others.
But like the Phoenix it WILL rise again, unfortunately
I appreciate that I might be wrong BUT I have a good number of pointers to these things.
AIMHO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on February 13, 2018, 11:37:06 PM
Well we have to endure many posts about MBM being a 'special case and well worth 11.mil. Only special in the fact that parents went out every night for a drink and food and left her to fend for herself- poor wee mite what chance did she have.
yep, they dined and wined iin Tapas Restaurant within the garden to their apartments.
Visually just a wee bit over 50 metres from the back patio doors of the apartment which even Amaral said that no intruder would risk going in that way cos it was too close and overlooked by the Tapas Friends. The patio area was also lightly lit by the street lamp immediately opposite
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on February 13, 2018, 11:39:26 PM
Interesting. What grounds do you have for that, John ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 14, 2018, 07:10:27 AM
I think that Madeleine is more of a symbol. A british child, lost abroad. An awful lot of small children are taken abroad on holiday and are at risk. Britain can't save the children of the world, but it can make efforts to save it's own. Which is what Operation Grange is doing.
Whoever these people are, they need to know that it isn't going to be easy, and that they will be pursued.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 14, 2018, 07:38:46 AM
yep, they dined and wined iin Tapas Restaurant within the garden to their apartments.
Visually just a wee bit over 50 metres from the back patio doors of the apartment which even Amaral said that no intruder would risk going in that way cos it was too close and overlooked by the Tapas Friends. The patio area was also lightly lit by the street lamp immediately opposite
Quote
When is someone in high authority going to pick up posters who repeatedly disinform ?
When are they going to be properly stopped ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 14, 2018, 09:49:57 AM
I think that Madeleine is more of a symbol. A british child, lost abroad. An awful lot of small children are taken abroad on holiday and are at risk. Britain can't save the children of the world, but it can make efforts to save it's own. Which is what Operation Grange is doing.
Whoever these people are, they need to know that it isn't going to be easy, and that they will be pursued.
A lot of small children are taken on holiday and the risks they face are no greater than those they face at home in my opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 14, 2018, 10:07:26 AM
I was discussing small children getting lost in unfamiliar surroundings. You appear to be discussing a small child being lured away from his mother.
You were criticising what you consider to be careless parents. So can I take it that you have never been careless?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 14, 2018, 12:10:52 PM
In my opinion it is long past the time for the wicked abuse dished out to the parents of the missing, particularly the parents of toddlers, to be considered for the hate crime it is.
James Bulger's mother has rightly been given the protection of the law ... speed on the day when such protection is afforded to all.
Twitter troll who taunted James Bulger's mother with 'sadistic' abuse including pretending to be the murdered toddler and blaming her for his death is jailed for three years Chloe Cowan contacted Denise Fergus pretending to be her dead son She also tried to troll Ms Fergus by claiming to be her son's killer The 20-year-old student admitted stalking at Canterbury Crown Court She was jailed for three years and banned from contacting Ms Fergus
In my opinion it is long past the time for the wicked abuse dished out to the parents of the missing, particularly the parents of toddlers, to be considered for the hate crime it is.
James Bulger's mother has rightly been given the protection of the law ... speed on the day when such protection is afforded to all.
Twitter troll who taunted James Bulger's mother with 'sadistic' abuse including pretending to be the murdered toddler and blaming her for his death is jailed for three years Chloe Cowan contacted Denise Fergus pretending to be her dead son She also tried to troll Ms Fergus by claiming to be her son's killer The 20-year-old student admitted stalking at Canterbury Crown Court She was jailed for three years and banned from contacting Ms Fergus
You were criticising what you consider to be careless parents. So can I take it that you have never been careless?
The point I was making was that small children are no more at risk of getting lost on holiday than they are at home. That's because they are accompanied and supervised by their parents in both locations.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 15, 2018, 11:41:03 AM
The point I was making was that small children are no more at risk of getting lost on holiday than they are at home. That's because they are accompanied and supervised by their parents in both locations.
My experience of holidays abroad reveals a more casual approach to child supervision especially around the resort itself. Parents go on holiday to relax and in most cases leave children to their own devices within the confines of the holiday complex. Ultimately, it all depends on the age of the child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 15, 2018, 02:05:23 PM
My experience of holidays abroad reveals a more casual approach to child supervision especially around the resort itself. Parents go on holiday to relax and in most cases leave children to their own devices within the confines of the holiday complex. Ultimately, it all depends on the age of the child.
Small children of Madeleine's age were being discussed. I don't suppose parents allow them to wander about on their own, although I'm beginning to wonder.
I had the impression that parents today were more protective of their children than people like me who had children in the 1960's, but it seems it's not so simple as that.
I had a basic level of care that I applied at all times, wherever the family happened to be. I seem to be being told that modern parents take less care on holiday than they do at home.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 15, 2018, 02:45:47 PM
I suppose it could be that modern parents are more selfish than earlier generations and want more 'me time'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 15, 2018, 02:58:07 PM
In my opinion an age of innocence was lost in Britain when the moors murderers began their killing spree; it was a definitive time for all parents and children.
Another defining moment was the disappearance of Madeleine McCann while on holiday abroad.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 15, 2018, 03:28:13 PM
In my opinion an age of innocence was lost in Britain when the moors murderers began their killing spree; it was a definitive time for all parents and children.
Another defining moment was the disappearance of Madeleine McCann while on holiday abroad.
I would agree re: the moors murders, though I think the McCann case has only pointed out what can happen when you leave your kids on their own.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 15, 2018, 03:36:00 PM
I would agree re: the moors murders, though I think the McCann case has only pointed out what can happen when you leave your kids on their own.
Innocents were the victims of both instances in unforeseen circumstances. As were those children assaulted in their beds while on holiday. Of course nothing forewarned parents of the dangers of that since no-one was publicising it was happening. These kids categorically had not been left on their own.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 15, 2018, 06:50:59 PM
In my opinion an age of innocence was lost in Britain when the moors murderers began their killing spree; it was a definitive time for all parents and children.
Another defining moment was the disappearance of Madeleine McCann while on holiday abroad.
The moors murders were truly shocking and horrifying although they didn't affect the way I treated my children. They weren't as free as I was, but that was due to other considerations such as where we lived.
I don't think MBM's disappearance would have affected my behaviour if I'd had children of a similar age because I don't know what happened to her. I never took the same risks with my children either, I paid babysitters if I went out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on February 15, 2018, 07:00:42 PM
The moors murders were truly shocking and horrifying although they didn't affect the way I treated my children. They weren't as free as I was, but that was due to other considerations such as where we lived.
I don't think MBM's disappearance would have affected my behaviour if I'd had children of a similar age because I don't know what happened to her. I never took the same risks with my children either, I paid babysitters if I went out.
Babysitters whom you knew?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 15, 2018, 07:42:46 PM
Small children of Madeleine's age were being discussed. I don't suppose parents allow them to wander about on their own, although I'm beginning to wonder.
I had the impression that parents today were more protective of their children than people like me who had children in the 1960's, but it seems it's not so simple as that.
I had a basic level of care that I applied at all times, wherever the family happened to be. I seem to be being told that modern parents take less care on holiday than they do at home.
Tough call.
We have a back garden that makes the Tapas zone look pocket handkerchief size.
I think of it as ultra-safe. The worst intruder I have seen is the neighbours' cat, though I am told there has been a wild boar.
However, much of our boundary is a ditch. Normally dry, but a ditch all the same.
I have 2 young grandchildren, one aged 7+. One aged a little over two.
I was digging our vegetable patch recently when the two kids came past me in a little electric car. This was perhaps 100m from the house. And not a parent in sight.
I carried on digging. The kids went maybe another 50m into the garden.
Then the 7-year-old came back, playing with a tree cutting he had picked up.
I stopped digging and went into alert mode. I could not see or hear the two year old or the toy car. All I did was ask the 7-year-old where his brother was, on the basis he had been with him.
It turned out there was no reason to worry. The child and car were safe in a part of the garden I couldn't see.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 15, 2018, 08:08:49 PM
Mostly teenagers belonging to friends. All that was required was someone in charge in case the children woke up. My children very rarely woke up because with three under 5's I was strict about bed and sleep times. Evenings were my 'me time' after twelve hours or more of childcare, shopping and housework.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 15, 2018, 08:09:30 PM
We have a back garden that makes the Tapas zone look pocket handkerchief size.
I think of it as ultra-safe. The worst intruder I have seen is the neighbours' cat, though I am told there has been a wild boar.
However, much of our boundary is a ditch. Normally dry, but a ditch all the same.
I have 2 young grandchildren, one aged 7+. One aged a little over two.
I was digging our vegetable patch recently when the two kids came past me in a little electric car. This was perhaps 100m from the house. And not a parent in sight.
I carried on digging. The kids went maybe another 50m into the garden.
Then the 7-year-old came back, playing with a tree cutting he had picked up.
I stopped digging and went into alert mode. I could not see or hear the two year old or the toy car. All I did was ask the 7-year-old where his brother was, on the basis he had been with him.
It turned out there was no reason to worry. The child and car were safe in a part of the garden I couldn't see.
So a 2 and 7 yr old were basically unsupervised... Out of site.. Absolutely crazy...imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 15, 2018, 08:24:47 PM
So a 2 and 7 yr old were basically unsupervised... Out of site.. Absolutely crazy...imo
It is the risk some take. It was based on the past experience. Probably OK in 999,999 cases in a million. Call it crazy if you want, but a lot of us did that sort of thing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 15, 2018, 08:30:36 PM
It is the risk some take. It was based on the past experience. Probably OK in 999,999 cases in a million. Call it crazy if you want, but a lot of us did that sort of thing.
Fine... About the same chance the mccanns took
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 15, 2018, 08:35:34 PM
So a 2 and 7 yr old were basically unsupervised... Out of site.. Absolutely crazy...imo
I was a latchkey kid at seven years of age and my children would go to the shop and the playground with their friends at that age, although not if there was a busy road to cross. My husband walked to school alone at five years of age. There is concern that today's children aren't being allowed to learn self-reliance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 15, 2018, 08:39:31 PM
I was a latchkey kid at seven years of age and my children would go to the shop and the playground with their friends at that age, although not if there was a busy road to cross. My husband walked to school alone at five years of age. There is concern that today's children aren't being allowed to learn self-reliance.
A two year old unsupervised 150 yrds from the house Not much difference to what the mccanns did.. Imo
Could have ended in tragedy...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 15, 2018, 08:42:46 PM
This is a bit of a turn up after the slagging off I got repeatedly for admitting to doing the same things.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 15, 2018, 08:48:59 PM
Problem with the McCanns the incidences of break-ins were being kept quite. So the concept of a "safe place" was in some ways distorted but they did not know that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 15, 2018, 09:01:34 PM
It's all old hat now. Everybody knows. Certain members of this Forum made sure of that, and still do from time to time, although it's ten years now since I first admitted it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 15, 2018, 09:02:43 PM
Problem with the McCanns the incidences of break-ins were being kept quite. So the concept of a "safe place" was in some ways distorted but they did not know that.
Just as sil thinks her garden is, safe.... The mccanns thought the OC was safe...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 15, 2018, 09:04:25 PM
It's all old hat now. Everybody knows. Certain members of this Forum made sure of that, and still do from time to time, although it's ten years now since I first admitted it.
I did it on more than one occasion.. It felt safe at the time.. I certainly wouldn't do it now
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 15, 2018, 09:12:59 PM
I did it on more than one occasion.. It felt safe at the time.. I certainly wouldn't do it now
The rights and wrongs of it aren't really relevant. But there was no way in which I could berate The McCanns for what I had done myself, and wasn't ashamed to admit it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 15, 2018, 09:33:21 PM
In retrospect, I don't know if there is anyone who could say hand on heart that either through inexperience or thoughtlessness they have not put the most precious beings in their lives in jeopardy ... and that is inclusive of the wrong choice of babysitter.
The McCanns were caught out. The majority of the rest of us got off with it for which we should be ever thankful. I know I am.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 15, 2018, 10:15:30 PM
All any parent can do is their best. No-one can be on red alert 24/7. With the McCann case we aren't discussing a moment's lack of attention though. It was 5 nights of deliberate abandonment of small children. No-one expects an abduction but any parent with any sense is aware that children can wake, feel ill, cry, fall and more in the space of a few minutes, let alone 30 of them. I knew this at the age of 26, why didn't the McCanns take it into account at their more mature ages?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 15, 2018, 10:28:23 PM
In retrospect, I don't know if there is anyone who could say hand on heart that either through inexperience or thoughtlessness they have not put the most precious beings in their lives in jeopardy ... and that is inclusive of the wrong choice of babysitter.
The McCanns were caught out. The majority of the rest of us got off with it for which we should be ever thankful. I know I am.
As a then GP with appropriate training KM could potentially have been a member of a team passing judgement on parents whose children may then have been placed on the Children at Risk Register. It is difficult to see how the two can be reconciled; although I am sure there will be plenty of not so apposite reasoning.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on February 15, 2018, 10:47:31 PM
All any parent can do is their best. No-one can be on red alert 24/7. With the McCann case we aren't discussing a moment's lack of attention though. It was 5 nights of deliberate abandonment of small children. No-one expects an abduction but any parent with any sense is aware that children can wake, feel ill, cry, fall and more in the space of a few minutes, let alone 30 of them. I knew this at the age of 26, why didn't the McCanns take it into account at their more mature ages?
IMO allowing children more freedom during the day is part of developing self reliance in the child. Leaving them home alone does nothing for child development.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 15, 2018, 10:58:59 PM
IMO allowing children more freedom during the day is part of developing self reliance in the child. Leaving them home alone does nothing for child development.
If we were to analyse when is it that most kids have serious accidents, I would not be surprised most of them are occurring during that " developing self reliance" phase. As a kid we would make rafts and paddle down the river - "developing self reliance" but looking back absolutely dangerous but a heck of a lot of fun. What would have we said if Mum told us we were not allowed to do it? Families are tending to be smaller today and I suppose it is more important to make sure all the kids survive.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 16, 2018, 10:21:50 AM
A recent FOI to the MET has brought this response regarding funding.
Quote
The MPS have decided to disclosure the cost of Operation Grange to date to you in full.
In addition the cost for the first three quarters of financial year 2017/18 (April - December 2017) is £217,411. As this is not a full year this data cannot be compared to other years
In addition the cost for the first three quarters of financial year 2017/18 (April - December 2017) is £217,411. As this is not a full year this data cannot be compared to other years
Actually in my opinion you have really omitted the meat and bones from your link; it is well worth reading and mulling over in context. Who in their right mind seeks to interfere in any way with an obviously active ongoing criminal investigation, particularly when we know there are matters of grave sensitivity to be addressed. Not to mention this is a case concerning a missing child who allegedly comes first in the thoughts of all. Heh!
I don't quite see how that sentiment can be claimed by those who get themselves tied in knots at mention of Madeleine's fund and have apoplexy at the thought of a farthing being spent in the continuing search for her.
Dear Ms Kendall
Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2018010000845
I write in connection with your request for information which was received by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on 19/01/2018. I note you seek access to the following information:
* Will you please inform me if Operation Grange will be requesting more money for the ongoing search for Madeleine McCann when present funding runs out in March * Also the total sum that has been spent so far of taxpayers money in this search
DECISION IN RESPECT OF PART ONE OF YOUR REQUEST
The Metropolitan Police Service can neither confirm nor deny whether it holds the information that you requested as the duty in Section 1(1)(a) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) does not apply by virtue of the following exemptions:
* Section 30 - Investigations
Please see the legal annex for further information on the exemptions applied in respect of your request.
REASONS FOR DECISION
The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is ongoing and as with any ongoing investigation we need to ensure that any information provided under the Freedom of Information Act does not impact on the police operation. In this instance the MPS have decided to apply a neither confirm nor deny (NCND) response to the first part of your request. This is because the MPS are not prepared to say whether we have or have not approached the Home Office in respect of the continuation of Operation Grange.
As you would expect the MPS will not provide a running commentary on live investigations. Any response which confirms whether or not additional funding is being sought would also be likely to confirm whether or not there are any outstanding lines of enquiry that the Operation Grange team feel should be explored.
The MPS provide updates to the public by way of press releases and blogs which are carefully timed and prepared in order to ensure we keep the public informed without compromising the ongoing investigation. An example of such an update can be found at the following link: http://news.met.police.uk/blog_posts/ac-....
The MPS appreciate that the funding for Operation Grange is of high public interest however as explained confirmation of whether or not the requested information is held would give an insight in to the investigation itself. Clearly information concerning an ongoing investigation must be protected in order to ensure that any response issued does not disrupt the investigation or assist offenders.
To clarify, any response which outlines whether or not there are further enquiries to be made concerning a criminal investigation could not be placed in the public domain as this would be highly valuable information to the individuals who are responsible for offences. Such individuals may subsequently decide to take additional measures to avoid detection or apprehension. Conversely offenders would also benefit should the MPS response indicate that our enquiries have concluded or are near completion.
At this point, I would like to explain that all FOI disclosures are published on our website as the information, once disclosed, is considered to be available to all members of the public.
We must protect the integrity of our investigation, however we are also keenly aware of the public's interest in the cost of this investigation and how it is funded. A careful balance is needed to show that we are both accountable for our decisions and transparent regarding the cost to the public purse.
The exemption provide under section 30 of the Act is qualified and therefore I am required to provide you with a public interest test which you can find in the legal annex below.
Please note this response should not be taken to as an indication of whether the information requested under part one of your request is or is not held.
DECISION IN RESPECT OF PART TWO OF YOUR REQUEST
The MPS have decided to disclosure the cost of Operation Grange to date to you in full.
The MPS understands that there is significant public interest in matters concerning Madeleine McCann. The investigation has been lengthy and ultimately is resourced using public funds. It is important that we are as open and transparent as possible when dealing with matters of such high public interest. A full response here would provide clarity on whether additional funding for the operation is being sought. This would help encourage debate concerning the use of public funds.
Public interest considerations favouring the application of the neither confirm nor deny (NCND) response
It is important to acknowledge that this is an ongoing investigation into the disappearance of a child. As with all investigations it is of paramount importance that the response to a Freedom of Information request does not disrupt or have any negative impact on that investigation. Clearly such disruption to an investigation would not be in the best interests of the public. The length of time and money that is put into an investigation does not diminish the argument above.
Balancing Test
After weighing up the competing interests I have determined that the public interest favours the maintenance of the neither confirm nor deny exemption. The argument in favour of the NCND is significant as ultimately it is not in the best interests of the public to issue any response that could prejudice an ongoing investigation, assist offenders or increase the risk of further offences being committed. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/operation_grange#incoming-1110345
In my opinion, the communication from Grange certainly makes the position as far as an active investigation is concerned crystal clear. The right 'to know' comes nowhere near to the right of the police to be allowed to get on with their jobs without let or hindrance.
The reply is logical and and obvious and that in my opinion should have deterred yet another FOI request concerning Madeleine McCann and the active investigation into her case (one wonders how many in total this one makes from those allegedly concerned about the efficiency of the public purse).
The snip you posted while giving important information ... really doesn't come close to reviewing the far wider picture ... information on which either you chose to ignore or just failed to see the significance of.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 16, 2018, 12:21:23 PM
As far as I know there has been no comment made by anyone from Scotland Yard ... nor would I expect any.
Snip Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have applied for more funding for the search, the Home Office has confirmed. http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=31483
Who in their right mind seeks to interfere in any way with an obviously active ongoing criminal investigation, particularly when we know there are matters of grave sensitivity to be addressed. Not to mention this is a case concerning a missing child who allegedly comes first in the thoughts of all. Heh!
You need to make your mind up, do you believe the tittle tattle spouted by the likes of Brunt or yourself when stating you don't expect any thing from the Scotland Yard.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 16, 2018, 01:56:05 PM
You need to make your mind up, do you believe the tittle tattle spouted by the likes of Brunt or yourself when stating you don't expect any thing from the Scotland Yard.
Are you confused? The link in my post is not to Martin Brunt ... http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=31483 ... and if it had been ... so what?
The news story might very well be in the public domain as a result of replies to FOI replies being published in fora on the internet.
Shock! Horror! that Martin Brunt should be doing his job. &%%6
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 16, 2018, 07:17:35 PM
Actually in my opinion you have really omitted the meat and bones from your link; it is well worth reading and mulling over in context. Who in their right mind seeks to interfere in any way with an obviously active ongoing criminal investigation, particularly when we know there are matters of grave sensitivity to be addressed. Not to mention this is a case concerning a missing child who allegedly comes first in the thoughts of all. Heh!
I don't quite see how that sentiment can be claimed by those who get themselves tied in knots at mention of Madeleine's fund and have apoplexy at the thought of a farthing being spent in the continuing search for her.
Dear Ms Kendall
Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2018010000845
I write in connection with your request for information which was received by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on 19/01/2018. I note you seek access to the following information:
* Will you please inform me if Operation Grange will be requesting more money for the ongoing search for Madeleine McCann when present funding runs out in March * Also the total sum that has been spent so far of taxpayers money in this search
DECISION IN RESPECT OF PART ONE OF YOUR REQUEST
The Metropolitan Police Service can neither confirm nor deny whether it holds the information that you requested as the duty in Section 1(1)(a) of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) does not apply by virtue of the following exemptions:
* Section 30 - Investigations
Please see the legal annex for further information on the exemptions applied in respect of your request.
REASONS FOR DECISION
The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is ongoing and as with any ongoing investigation we need to ensure that any information provided under the Freedom of Information Act does not impact on the police operation. In this instance the MPS have decided to apply a neither confirm nor deny (NCND) response to the first part of your request. This is because the MPS are not prepared to say whether we have or have not approached the Home Office in respect of the continuation of Operation Grange.
As you would expect the MPS will not provide a running commentary on live investigations. Any response which confirms whether or not additional funding is being sought would also be likely to confirm whether or not there are any outstanding lines of enquiry that the Operation Grange team feel should be explored.
The MPS provide updates to the public by way of press releases and blogs which are carefully timed and prepared in order to ensure we keep the public informed without compromising the ongoing investigation. An example of such an update can be found at the following link: http://news.met.police.uk/blog_posts/ac-....
The MPS appreciate that the funding for Operation Grange is of high public interest however as explained confirmation of whether or not the requested information is held would give an insight in to the investigation itself. Clearly information concerning an ongoing investigation must be protected in order to ensure that any response issued does not disrupt the investigation or assist offenders.
To clarify, any response which outlines whether or not there are further enquiries to be made concerning a criminal investigation could not be placed in the public domain as this would be highly valuable information to the individuals who are responsible for offences. Such individuals may subsequently decide to take additional measures to avoid detection or apprehension. Conversely offenders would also benefit should the MPS response indicate that our enquiries have concluded or are near completion.
At this point, I would like to explain that all FOI disclosures are published on our website as the information, once disclosed, is considered to be available to all members of the public.
We must protect the integrity of our investigation, however we are also keenly aware of the public's interest in the cost of this investigation and how it is funded. A careful balance is needed to show that we are both accountable for our decisions and transparent regarding the cost to the public purse.
The exemption provide under section 30 of the Act is qualified and therefore I am required to provide you with a public interest test which you can find in the legal annex below.
Please note this response should not be taken to as an indication of whether the information requested under part one of your request is or is not held.
DECISION IN RESPECT OF PART TWO OF YOUR REQUEST
The MPS have decided to disclosure the cost of Operation Grange to date to you in full.
The MPS understands that there is significant public interest in matters concerning Madeleine McCann. The investigation has been lengthy and ultimately is resourced using public funds. It is important that we are as open and transparent as possible when dealing with matters of such high public interest. A full response here would provide clarity on whether additional funding for the operation is being sought. This would help encourage debate concerning the use of public funds.
Public interest considerations favouring the application of the neither confirm nor deny (NCND) response
It is important to acknowledge that this is an ongoing investigation into the disappearance of a child. As with all investigations it is of paramount importance that the response to a Freedom of Information request does not disrupt or have any negative impact on that investigation. Clearly such disruption to an investigation would not be in the best interests of the public. The length of time and money that is put into an investigation does not diminish the argument above.
Balancing Test
After weighing up the competing interests I have determined that the public interest favours the maintenance of the neither confirm nor deny exemption. The argument in favour of the NCND is significant as ultimately it is not in the best interests of the public to issue any response that could prejudice an ongoing investigation, assist offenders or increase the risk of further offences being committed. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/operation_grange#incoming-1110345
In my opinion, the communication from Grange certainly makes the position as far as an active investigation is concerned crystal clear. The right 'to know' comes nowhere near to the right of the police to be allowed to get on with their jobs without let or hindrance.
The reply is logical and and obvious and that in my opinion should have deterred yet another FOI request concerning Madeleine McCann and the active investigation into her case (one wonders how many in total this one makes from those allegedly concerned about the efficiency of the public purse).
The snip you posted while giving important information ... really doesn't come close to reviewing the far wider picture ... information on which either you chose to ignore or just failed to see the significance of.
What an interesting observation! What is the extent of your belief in that observation? Is it global or just to suit what ever argument you are propounding at any given moment?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 16, 2018, 07:59:07 PM
What an interesting observation! What is the extent of your belief in that observation? Is it global or just to suit what ever argument you are propounding at any given moment?
Could it be any clearer There, an active investigation so little will be revealed
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 16, 2018, 08:39:56 PM
So briettas post could be clearer.. And seems to change in the wind... That's, all your opinion but for some reason Rob accepts it as fact
You should pay attention. It is not just my opinion. He /she /it has expressed two opposing opinions about interference with live police investigations. I was just trying to establish his/her/its ground rules.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 16, 2018, 10:19:02 PM
You should pay attention. It is not just my opinion. He /she /it has expressed two opposing opinions about interference with live police investigations. I was just trying to establish his/her/its ground rules.
I disagree.. You are stating your opinion as fact Could you cite the two opposing opinions
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2018, 06:54:00 AM
Who told the press that Operation Grange have applied for more funds from the Home Office? Where's the leak? So much for the MPS being secretive about a live investigation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 17, 2018, 07:13:20 AM
You should pay attention. It is not just my opinion. He /she /it has expressed two opposing opinions about interference with live police investigations. I was just trying to establish his/her/its ground rules.
Can you provide cites for the two opposing opinions please.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 17, 2018, 07:27:22 AM
As far as I know there has been no comment made by anyone from Scotland Yard ... nor would I expect any.
Snip Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have applied for more funding for the search, the Home Office has confirmed. http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=31483
Who in their right mind seeks to interfere in any way with an obviously active ongoing criminal investigation, particularly when we know there are matters of grave sensitivity to be addressed.
Shock! Horror! that Martin Brunt should be doing his job. &%%6
Clearly indicating that she doesn't expect anything from the officals ie: MET officers but is happy to rely on some hack spreading rubbish even when the MET will not comment,simples.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 17, 2018, 08:03:34 AM
Who told the press that Operation Grange have applied for more funds from the Home Office? Where's the leak? So much for the MPS being secretive about a live investigation.
Maybe the Portuguese leaked it, they got the blame for all the burglary suspect leaks.
I never could understand why that theory was so well publicised, risking jeopardising the live investigation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 17, 2018, 08:06:19 AM
Where it is said: "As far as I know there has been no comment made by anyone from Scotland Yard" I take that as Brietta has accepted that as a fact, and there is no point in asking for a cite as there supposedly there is none. If someone can provide a cite that proves that wrong it will no longer be a fact. "As far as I know there has been no comment made by anyone from Scotland Yard ... nor would I expect any." The "... nor would I expect any" bit is opinion. So the opinion component is "nor would I expect any comment made by anyone from Scotland Yard.
So where is the opposing opinion to that?
The next sentence "Who in their right mind seeks to interfere in any way with an obviously active ongoing criminal investigation, particularly when we know there are matters of grave sensitivity to be addressed." would be opinion. On a different topic to the first so it isn't opposing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2018, 08:37:25 AM
Also. Clearly indicating that she doesn't expect anything from the officals ie: MET officers but is happy to rely on some hack spreading rubbish even when the MET will not comment,simples.
My interest lies in wondering what purpose is served by Martin Bunt reporting that Operation Grange have applied for more funding. Who told him and why?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 17, 2018, 08:43:29 AM
My interest lies in wondering what purpose is served by Martin Bunt reporting that Operation Grange have applied for more funding. Who told him and why?
According to the statement the home office confirmed the request.... As to why... It's a matter of public interest and there is no harm in revealing it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on February 17, 2018, 09:08:09 AM
If I were Madeleine's abductor, this information would be important. I'd know I had to remain in hiding. I might even harm Maddie as I'd possibly think the Met were closing in. If I were led to believe that funding had ceased however , I might be more likely to venture from the hideout, and then be caught unaware in an ingenious double bluff.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 17, 2018, 09:17:29 AM
If I was the abductor, I would dump Madeleine and head for the hills.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 17, 2018, 10:26:46 AM
Quote from: Robittybob1 on Today at 07:13:20 AM Can you provide cites for the two opposing opinions please.
Earlier Brietta had this to say, Quote from: Brietta on February 13, 2018, 11:47:41 AM As far as I know there has been no comment made by anyone from Scotland Yard ... nor would I expect any.[/color]
Snip Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have applied for more funding for the search, the Home Office has confirmed. http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=31483
Later followed by. Quote from: Brietta on February 16, 2018, 11:49:15 AM
Who in their right mind seeks to interfere in any way with an obviously active ongoing criminal investigation, particularly when we know there are matters of grave sensitivity to be addressed.
Also. Quote from: Brietta on February 16, 2018, 01:56:05 PM
Shock! Horror! that Martin Brunt should be doing his job. &%%6
Clearly indicating that she doesn't expect anything from the officals ie: MET officers but is happy to rely on some hack spreading rubbish even when the MET will not comment,simples.
First of two observations in this latest ploy ... The cut and paste in blue above would not be there if I hadn't taken the time to do it. It was required to add because without it, the attempted cut and thrust of the post would have been entirely lost to posterity making the post even more of a nonsense than absolutely necessary. The device you have used to illustrate different quotations in your original post just does not travel well when your post is being replied to ... it would be worth while to remember that in future.
@Alice The second observation concerns insults ... Just for the record ... my gender in the real world is female ... referring to me or any other forum member as "he/she/or it" is not only incredibly rude ... it is against forum rules. It may be within the rules of whatever game you claim to play, but it is worth bearing in mind that I am the banker with the penalty point ability which will be implemented in all future infringements, whether aimed at me or any other member.
I have no idea why sceptics have decided that Martin Brunt is the bogey man in this ... why not the Home Office?
On 12th February 2018 a spokeswoman for which said: "The Home Office has provided funding to the Metropolitan Police for Operation Grange and the resources required are reviewed regularly with careful consideration given before any new funding is allocated."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2018, 10:42:03 AM
According to the statement the home office confirmed the request.... As to why... It's a matter of public interest and there is no harm in revealing it
According to the MPS they would prefer that it wasn't revealed as it could harm the investigation. It seems their priorities and those of the Home Office differ.
There is no official joint investigation, so this bit is interesting;
Scotland Yard's part of the joint investigation with the Portuguese https://news.sky.com/story/more-funding-for-madeleine-mccann-search-requested-by-police-11248085
Someone seems interesting in suggesting an equal partnership, but it isn't. The MPS have made it perfectly clear that the PJ have primacy.
Operation Grange is working to support the Portuguese investigation and this work continues. http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459
With just four police officers to provide the support.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 17, 2018, 10:49:25 AM
According to the MPS they would prefer that it wasn't revealed as it could harm the investigation. It seems their priorities and those of the Home Office differ.
There is no official joint investigation, so this bit is interesting;
Scotland Yard's part of the joint investigation with the Portuguese https://news.sky.com/story/more-funding-for-madeleine-mccann-search-requested-by-police-11248085
Someone seems interesting in suggesting an equal partnership, but it isn't. The MPS have made it perfectly clear that the PJ have primacy.
Operation Grange is working to support the Portuguese investigation and this work continues. http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459
With just four police officers to provide the support.
"Clearly Scotland Yard feels it hasn't come to the end of the line" Martin Brunt
Wonder if that's all four of them ... or maybe just the majority.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 17, 2018, 10:49:44 AM
According to the MPS they would prefer that it wasn't revealed as it could harm the investigation. It seems their priorities and those of the Home Office differ.
There is no official joint investigation, so this bit is interesting;
Scotland Yard's part of the joint investigation with the Portuguese https://news.sky.com/story/more-funding-for-madeleine-mccann-search-requested-by-police-11248085
Someone seems interesting in suggesting an equal partnership, but it isn't. The MPS have made it perfectly clear that the PJ have primacy.
Operation Grange is working to support the Portuguese investigation and this work continues. http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459
With just four police officers to provide the support.
I think this has probably been so since day 1
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 17, 2018, 10:51:25 AM
According to the MPS they would prefer that it wasn't revealed as it could harm the investigation. It seems their priorities and those of the Home Office differ.
There is no official joint investigation, so this bit is interesting;
Scotland Yard's part of the joint investigation with the Portuguese https://news.sky.com/story/more-funding-for-madeleine-mccann-search-requested-by-police-11248085
Someone seems interesting in suggesting an equal partnership, but it isn't. The MPS have made it perfectly clear that the PJ have primacy.
Operation Grange is working to support the Portuguese investigation and this work continues. http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-the-investigation-into-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-135459
With just four police officers to provide the support.
I think you are, reading too much into a news, article. Both SY and the, PJ are investigating the same crime... It is loosely a joint investigation but not strictly a, joint investigation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2018, 12:36:33 PM
I think you are, reading too much into a news, article. Both SY and the, PJ are investigating the same crime... It is loosely a joint investigation but not strictly a, joint investigation.
Brunt knows very well it's not a joint investigation, despite the efforts made by the UK to set that up 'at a political level, and at a police and judicial level' as Hogan-Howe explained. It was important because an official joint investigation would have allowed Operation Grange to work in Portugal without having to wait for the PJ to do things for them. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643
Both forces are investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, if that's what you mean.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 17, 2018, 12:49:19 PM
Brunt knows very well it's not a joint investigation, despite the efforts made by the UK to set that up 'at a political level, and at a police and judicial level' as Hogan-Howe explained. It was important because an official joint investigation would have allowed Operation Grange to work in Portugal without having to wait for the PJ to do things for them. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643 R Both forces are investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, if that's what you mean.
These details are not of any importance to the general public
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2018, 01:05:58 PM
Why would Brunt try to mislead the 'general public' do you think?
I don't think he is... The press just are not particularly accurate.. They are both investigating.. They work together.... Joint investigation sounds, a, reasonable description
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 17, 2018, 01:36:23 PM
Do you think he is deliberately trying to mislead ...I dont
Martin Brunt is a reporter who reports the news as given to him by what he supposes are reliable sources and that sometimes causes him to be the the news rather than the harbinger of it. Much as he did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRFzXcJK8vQ when reporting false information regarding the DNA results sent from England to the Portuguese police.
Unfortunate? ... in my opinion, disastrously so. Deliberately misleading? ... absolutely not again in my opinion.
The man is a reporter doing his job. Is there any suggestion that he should not have reported that the police give the impression that they think it is worthwhile pursuing Madeleine's case by asking for an extension of funding to do so? His reporting of it appears to be in the public interest given what has been posted here about at least one FOI request in the public domain; at least on this occasion the Home Office confirmation that consideration is being given to the police request tends to prove that on this occasion any Sky News report to that effect is accurate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2018, 06:18:44 PM
Do you think he is deliberately trying to mislead ...I dont
I would expect a crime reporter to know exactly what a joint investigation is. As he has covered the story for ten years I expect him to remember how badly the MPS (and the McCanns) pushed to get one set up, but failed. There was no need to include the word 'joint' at all.
there is Home Office funding to keep Scotland Yard's part of the joint investigation with the Portuguese going until the end of March," he said. https://news.sky.com/story/more-funding-for-madeleine-mccann-search-requested-by-police-11248085
The McCanns, who also understand the meaning of the term, tend to imply that a joint investigation is taking place too;
there is now a joint Metropolitan Police-Policia Judiciaria investigation which is what we've always wanted. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15060465.Madeleine_McCann_s_parents__disappointed__after_losing_Portugal_libel_appeal/
But didn't get;
Mrs McCann said she was particularly frustrated that police in Portugal had so far ruled out a joint inquiry with their British counterparts. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27239149
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 17, 2018, 06:24:26 PM
I would expect a crime reporter to know exactly what a joint investigation is. As he has covered the story for ten years I expect him to remember how badly the MPS (and the McCanns) pushed to get one set up, but failed. There was no need to include the word 'joint' at all.
there is Home Office funding to keep Scotland Yard's part of the joint investigation with the Portuguese going until the end of March," he said. https://news.sky.com/story/more-funding-for-madeleine-mccann-search-requested-by-police-11248085
The McCanns, who also understand the meaning of the term, tend to imply that a joint investigation is taking place too;
there is now a joint Metropolitan Police-Policia Judiciaria investigation which is what we've always wanted. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15060465.Madeleine_McCann_s_parents__disappointed__after_losing_Portugal_libel_appeal/
But didn't get;
Mrs McCann said she was particularly frustrated that police in Portugal had so far ruled out a joint inquiry with their British counterparts. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27239149
I think you are getting worked up about nothing... One thing that has become clear is, the press, are sometimes, not too accurate..
Again... Do you think brunt is deliberately trying to mislead. I just can't see, why he would do that
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 17, 2018, 07:00:06 PM
I think there is a point being missed here. The PJ can't operate unattended in Britain and Scotland Yard can't operate unattended in Portugal. This does not mean that there isn't a joint operation with joint cooperation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on February 17, 2018, 07:09:26 PM
Can you provide cites for the two opposing opinions please.
Posts on this forum. One on this thread a few before this post in an excahnge with barrier. Several on other threads justifying interference by Metodo3 Brian Kennedy et al interviewing witnesses in a live criminal investigation. You could always ask her for an unequivocal statement that in her opinion civilians interfering with a live criminal investigation is neither acceptable nor justifiable whomsoever be carrying out the interference.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 17, 2018, 07:11:40 PM
Posts on this forum. One on this thread a few before this post in an excahnge with barrier. Several on other threads justifying interference by Metodo3 Brian Kennedy et al interviewing witnesses in a live criminal investigation. You could always ask her for an unequivocal statement that in her opinion civilians interfering with a live criminal investigation is neither acceptable nor justifiable whomsoever be carrying out the interference.
I think you will find there is a long history of family and friends trying to help a live criminal investigation
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2018, 07:31:42 PM
I'm just presenting evidence which, in my opinion, demonstrates that Brunt wouldn't make that particular mistake.
Brunt may have been using the word joint in a more loose term... It is on the face of things a joint investigation as they are working together on the same crime
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 17, 2018, 07:37:31 PM
I think there is a point being missed here. The PJ can't operate unattended in Britain and Scotland Yard can't operate unattended in Portugal. This does not mean that there isn't a joint operation with joint cooperation.
It doesn't mean there is a joint operation with joint cooperation either, despite Brunt's implication.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 17, 2018, 08:14:46 PM
Brunt may have been using the word joint in a more loose term... It is on the face of things a joint investigation as they are working together on the same crime
On the face of it? Whatever it is one of these it ain't: JITs are now an established efficient and effective cooperation tool amongst national investigative agencies when tackling cross-border crime. They facilitate the coordination of investigations and prosecutions conducted in parallel across several States. https://www.europol.europa.eu/activities-services/joint-investigation-teams
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 17, 2018, 09:24:39 PM
It's a response to post 3375 so I would suggest it's judged accordingly. I would say both were opinion, wouldn't you?
That is what I was thinking I noticed the post you were responding to was opinion, but your reply came across quite like a matter of fact so I wanted you to confirm whether it was fact or opinion. Getting to the logic "It doesn't mean [fact or opinion is true] either, is that saying we can't be sure that the "fact or opinion in question is true" or false in other words "fact or opinion in question" is not determined? So "It doesn't mean there is a joint operation with joint cooperation either, despite Brunt's implication." is not advancing the case either way, reminding us it is undetermined IYO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 17, 2018, 09:30:10 PM
That is what I was thinking I noticed the post you were responding to was opinion, but your reply came across quite like a matter of fact so I wanted you to confirm whether it was fact or opinion.
Was there a particular reason for writing in capitals?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on February 17, 2018, 11:34:09 PM
Also. Clearly indicating that she doesn't expect anything from the officals ie: MET officers but is happy to rely on some hack spreading rubbish even when the MET will not comment,simples.
Sorry but your argument did not hold water. IMO
The cites please.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 17, 2018, 11:58:53 PM
I think you will find there is a long history of family and friends trying to help a live criminal investigation
Yes, however, there are laws to protect witnesses from harassment AND harassment and intimidating witnesses is punishable by jail time.
There are also laws in Portugal which do now allow for private investigations during live cases. We have no way of knowing how much harm they caused by doing this.
However, it is worth noting that as mentioned on another thread the UK police could be investigating UK nationals here or in Portugal whom they suspect are involved with MBM's disappearance, which could result in them being charged and tried in the UK- or arrests in Portugal and charged by PJ. The net is closing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 18, 2018, 09:23:39 PM
Yes, however, there are laws to protect witnesses from harassment AND harassment and intimidating witnesses is punishable by jail time.
There are also laws in Portugal which do now allow for private investigations during live cases. We have no way of knowing how much harm they caused by doing this.
However, it is worth noting that as mentioned on another thread the UK police could be investigating UK nationals here or in Portugal whom they suspect are involved with MBM's disappearance, which could result in them being charged and tried in the UK- or arrests in Portugal and charged by PJ. The net is closing.
There is a long history of friends and families trying to help investigations yet I don't recall one, charge.. The net is closing....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 18, 2018, 09:39:50 PM
There is a long history of friends and families trying to help investigations yet I don't recall one, charge.. The net is closing....
So what job do you do that takes you into this field of 'witness intimidation' and people being let off, perhaps you can name a few for us. Cuz I would hate to be wrong
For all you other readers out there, we have in this country a witness protection program, only in case loving ex husbands are seeking to be reunited with his 'missing' children and to threaten,harass, abuse, or murder the mother who fled for her life. I could be making this up...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 09, 2018, 02:54:34 AM
Madeleine McCann cops in secret trips to Portugal as police remain on trail POLICE looking for missing Madeleine McCann have made secret visits to Portugal. By Jonhathan Corke / Published 9th September 2018
The Daily Star Sunday can reveal detectives bought five return flights to the country in the last financial year.
The air tickets, which cost £1,240, were for two separate trips, according to the Metropolitan Police.
The senior investigating officer, Det Chief Insp Nicola Wall, also claimed £811 for accommodation along with £80 on taxis to and from UK airports.
As well as DCI Wall, three detective constables and one detective sergeant are in the Operation Grange investigating team.
Their probe recently won further Home Office funding of up to £150,000.
Former police and taxpayers have questioned why the probe is still going on.
Details of the flights, which we obtained via Freedom of Information laws, suggest there could still be important leads.
Madeleine’s parents Kate, 50, and Gerry, 49, of Rothley, Leics, believe their girl, who would now be 15, could still be alive.
An £11.5million police probe into her disappearance began in 2011 after a plea to then Prime Minister David Cameron for a British investigation.
Madeleine was three when she vanished from a holiday apartment in 2007 while her parents dined with friends nearby.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 09, 2018, 08:27:22 AM
I think the Star is rehashing old news,a freedom of information request determined that there were two flights to Portugal last one in March one in May 2017 costing £1250 so unless the cost's have come down its very much the same. But if you note it does say the last finacial year which would be 2017/18.
Still any news is better than no news or even flogging a dead horse brings in some money.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 09, 2018, 08:33:40 AM
One would have to question what dirt they were hoping to dig on Kate and Gerry in Portugal wouldn’t one, if one believed the investigation was hot on their trail...?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 09, 2018, 08:39:08 AM
One would have to question what dirt they were hoping to dig on Kate and Gerry in Portugal wouldn’t one, if one believed the investigation was hot on their trail...?
Two flights over twelve months ago hardly suggest's they are hot on the heels of any thing.Trying to find a way out more like.OG that is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 09, 2018, 08:42:25 AM
Are they investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? If the parents were their prime suspects I would have thought they would, unless they are content just to sit on their backsides in Portugal waiting for someone to phone them up with some evidence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 09, 2018, 08:55:49 AM
Are they investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann? If the parents were their prime suspects I would have thought they would, unless they are content just to sit on their backsides in Portugal waiting for someone to phone them up with some evidence.
Cite for prime suspects?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 09, 2018, 08:58:35 AM
Did you not read the first word of my sentence? It began with an “If”. Some here believe the McCanns are the main suspects in the current investigation, were you not aware of that fact?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on September 09, 2018, 08:59:28 AM
One would have to question what dirt they were hoping to dig on Kate and Gerry in Portugal wouldn’t one, if one believed the investigation was hot on their trail...?
And you don’t think they might have gone there simply to liaise with their Portuguese counterparts?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 09, 2018, 10:51:03 AM
To succeed isn’t there one vital thing they need ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on September 12, 2018, 12:41:17 AM
It looks like Operation Grange are due to request more money and they probably will get it as this is the usual scenario.
Maddie cops want more cash as funds due to run out in THREE WEEKS POLICE want more cash to carry on the search for Madeleine McCann.
By Jerry Lawton / Published 12th September 2018
They are “in dialogue” with the Home Office to obtain another grant to continue their investigation.
She vanished, aged three, from her parents’ holiday apartment in Portugal 11 years ago.
The Metropolitan Police’s Operation Grange probe has so far cost taxpayers £11.6million.
It has been financed by Home Office grants but funding is due to run out in three weeks.
Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry, who maintain their daughter could still be alive, reportedly fear the Government may pull the plug amid outcry over police budget cuts.
But we can reveal detectives are to ask for more cash as they think they can crack the case.
A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: “The investigation continues and we are in dialogue with the Home Office over more funding.”
The Home Office said it had not yet received a formal request for further cash.
But if police make a bid it would be “carefully considered”.
They think they can "crack the case". I should hope so after so many years and over £11.6 million pounds spent.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2018, 07:24:33 AM
Excellent news ...this indicates to me they have information we know nothing about
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 12, 2018, 08:58:15 AM
Doesn't "crack the case" sound good!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on September 12, 2018, 09:11:49 AM
Javid is 2 Home Secretaries removed from the instigator of OG, so it will be interesting to see if he views this request in the same way as previous incumbents.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on September 12, 2018, 10:21:29 AM
I don't understand you. It has been said by the Met over and over that Portugal have the lead. OG are assisting them.
I would say that's the polite way of putting it... We know SY have arranged interviews of those they want questioned... Is ther any evidence the PJ have interviewed anyone.. I don't think there is
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2018, 05:07:44 PM
I don't understand you. It has been said by the Met over and over that Portugal have the lead. OG are assisting them.
What evidence is there that the PJ have done any investigating at all since the case was re-opened? Do tney do FOI requests in Portugal? I’m sure we’d all be very interested to know how much money they have spent in the last 5 years investigating Madeleine’s disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on September 12, 2018, 05:56:53 PM
What evidence is there that the PJ have done any investigating at all since the case was re-opened? Do tney do FOI requests in Portugal? I’m sure we’d all be very interested to know how much money they have spent in the last 5 years investigating Madeleine’s disappearance.
It's looking like Lip Service to me. Operation Grange do the work, because they are better at it, and Portugal says, "Thanks very much."
In the end it all depends on who was responsible for the abduction of Madeleine McCann, and of what Nationality. Quite possibly not even Portuguese.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2018, 05:58:53 PM
Are, the Portuguese public angry at the amount of money the PJ are, spending on the case..... Prob not as, they are doing nothing... Just paying lip service imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 12, 2018, 08:35:48 PM
Are, the Portuguese public angry at the amount of money the PJ are, spending on the case..... Prob not as, they are doing nothing... Just paying lip service imo
In the meantime OG are going no where fast.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 12, 2018, 08:37:18 PM
It doesn't appear that Operation Grange have actually achieved anything of value as yet. However I still believe that their gravy train will continue.
If the Portuguese are doing nothing as some posters say then I don't blame them as Scotland Yard don't seem to be getting very far IMO.
Surely if Operation Grange have not interviewed the McCanns or the tapas friends this should be done quickly as they may hold a vital clue to Madeleine's disappearance possibly without knowing it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on September 12, 2018, 09:29:51 PM
It doesn't appear that Operation Grange have actually achieved anything of value as yet. However I still believe that their gravy train will continue.
If the Portuguese are doing nothing as some posters say then I don't blame them as Scotland Yard don't seem to be getting very far IMO.
Surely if Operation Grange have not interviewed the McCanns or the tapas friends this should be done quickly as they may hold a vital clue to Madeleine's disappearance possibly without knowing it.
I find it amazing that they haven't done so as all the Tapas group interviews in Portugal were recorded in Portuguese.
Maybe these translations are no where near as unreliable as some like to claim 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 12, 2018, 09:31:27 PM
It doesn't appear that Operation Grange have actually achieved anything of value as yet. However I still believe that their gravy train will continue.
If the Portuguese are doing nothing as some posters say then I don't blame them as Scotland Yard don't seem to be getting very far IMO.
Surely if Operation Grange have not interviewed the McCanns or the tapas friends this should be done quickly as they may hold a vital clue to Madeleine's disappearance possibly without knowing it.
They have no need to interview them,Rowley was happy with what happened in the first investigation, remembering what the SC court had to say.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on September 12, 2018, 09:34:07 PM
I wasn't meaning as suspects just that there may be something in their memories that they don't even know is evidence.
I wonder what translations Scotland Yard are using. The ones online, the ones the McCanns paid for or their own translations.
Their own,in reply to a question on a radio programme which was what do 30 officers do all day,Hogan Howe replied that you had to remember that all the thousands of pages had to be translated.
https://youtu.be/n9vJm03dlI8
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2018, 09:21:44 AM
Their own,in reply to a question on a radio programme which was what do 30 officers do all day,Hogan Howe replied that you had to remember that all the thousands of pages had to be translated.
https://youtu.be/n9vJm03dlI8
Not just translated... But assessed and if necessary followed up. There was a colossal amount of information and this us why it has cost 11 million
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2018, 05:36:18 PM
Sunny said in response to the news that the police have submitted a request to the Home Office for further support in their joint operation with the Portuguese police https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-request-another-six-months-funding-investigate-disappearance-madeleine-mccann-114513101.html
Snip It is looking like groundhog day to me. In 2 - 3 weeks we will get the approval of funding for Operation Grange. I haven't had an interest in this case for all that long but even I see a pattern with the media stories.
I think it is groundhog day in more than one way. The general focus appears to be not on the police asking for money to continue what logically must therefore be an active investigation with more work still to be done but on the money which has been spent in allowing them to get to that stage.
I believe the small but vociferous force which purports to be all for Madeleine have had that small amount of success causing the gripe of cost for justice to be in the forefront. In my opinion ignoring the fact that the police are tasked with following evidence until there is none to follow.
One FOI request on top of another has pursued the investigation into this missing child right from inception in what I consider could be classed as an abuse of the system. As for example ... not so much on money in this one ... more in my opinion a transparent longing for the closure of Madeleine's case long before it is due ...
Question 3. Who will make the final decision as to whether or not to close or 'shelve' the active investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The MPS response to Q3: As in all major enquiries the decision to close the active phase of an investigation is taken by a senior officer in consultation with the relevant partners and stakeholders. It is then kept under review for new opportunities.
What sort of individuals are these who in my opinion are willing to actively leave no stone unturned in their desire to sacrifice the police investigation into the disappearance of a missing child on their own altar of hatred.
Groundhog day indeed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 13, 2018, 06:12:37 PM
It doesn't appear that Operation Grange have actually achieved anything of value as yet. However I still believe that their gravy train will continue.
If the Portuguese are doing nothing as some posters say then I don't blame them as Scotland Yard don't seem to be getting very far IMO.
Surely if Operation Grange have not interviewed the McCanns or the tapas friends this should be done quickly as they may hold a vital clue to Madeleine's disappearance possibly without knowing it.
Sorry, I don’t follow your logic there. Surely the PJ should be putting in more work if Operation Grange are so inept, not resting on their backsides doing nothing simply because in your estimation SY haven’t got very far?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on September 13, 2018, 06:16:37 PM
Sunny said in response to the news that the police have submitted a request to the Home Office for further support in their joint operation with the Portuguese police https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-request-another-six-months-funding-investigate-disappearance-madeleine-mccann-114513101.html
Snip It is looking like groundhog day to me. In 2 - 3 weeks we will get the approval of funding for Operation Grange. I haven't had an interest in this case for all that long but even I see a pattern with the media stories.
I think it is groundhog day in more than one way. The general focus appears to be not on the police asking for money to continue what logically must therefore be an active investigation with more work still to be done but on the money which has been spent in allowing them to get to that stage.
I believe the small but vociferous force which purports to be all for Madeleine have had that small amount of success causing the gripe of cost for justice to be in the forefront. In my opinion ignoring the fact that the police are tasked with following evidence until there is none to follow.
One FOI request on top of another has pursued the investigation into this missing child right from inception in what I consider could be classed as an abuse of the system. As for example ... not so much on money in this one ... more in my opinion a transparent longing for the closure of Madeleine's case long before it is due ...
Question 3. Who will make the final decision as to whether or not to close or 'shelve' the active investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
The MPS response to Q3: As in all major enquiries the decision to close the active phase of an investigation is taken by a senior officer in consultation with the relevant partners and stakeholders. It is then kept under review for new opportunities.
What sort of individuals are these who in my opinion are willing to actively leave no stone unturned in their desire to sacrifice the police investigation into the disappearance of a missing child on their own altar of hatred.
Groundhog day indeed.
I suppose in this case the stakeholders are the CPS and the Home Office, both of whom will be used to making pragmatic decisions based on reality rather than emotion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on September 13, 2018, 06:30:00 PM
I suppose in this case the stakeholders are the CPS and the Home Office, both of whom will be used to making pragmatic decisions based on reality rather than emotion.
Exactly and so far they have agreed to extra funding, presumably because they have been presented with reasons to do so.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on September 13, 2018, 06:31:26 PM
Exactly and so far they have agreed to extra funding, presumably because they have been presented with reasons to do so.
Interesting choice of words Erngath. Surely Scotland Yard would have found their own investigative reasons for wanting to continue the investigation rather that be "presented with reasons" IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2018, 06:34:20 PM
Interesting choice of words Erngath. Surely Scotland Yard would have found their own investigative reasons for wanting to continue the investigation rather that be "presented with reasons" IMO
Erngarth is talking about the Home Office... Not SY
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2018, 06:48:24 PM
I suppose in this case the stakeholders are the CPS and the Home Office, both of whom will be used to making pragmatic decisions based on reality rather than emotion.
In my opinion Madeleine's case was already a cold case when the decision was taken to reactivate it because there was sufficient evidence to do so.
If police opinion based on the work they are doing is that evidence exists to justify that there is still work to be done on Madeleine's case ... which the request for a continuation of funding would appear to support ... then it raises the dilemma for the Home Secretary of justifying cancelling at the eleventh hour a still solvable case despite the money already spent on it.
Very much a case of spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar ~ springs to mind.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on September 13, 2018, 06:54:51 PM
In my opinion Madeleine's case was already a cold case when the decision was taken to reactivate it because there was sufficient evidence to do so.
If police opinion based on the work they are doing is that evidence exists to justify that there is still work to be done on Madeleine's case ... which the request for a continuation of funding would appear to support ... then it raises the dilemma for the Home Secretary of justifying cancelling at the eleventh hour a still solvable case despite the money already spent on it.
Very much a case of spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar ~ springs to mind.
There would seem every possibility of it never being solved. IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 13, 2018, 06:55:19 PM
There would seem every possibility of it never being solved. IMO
There seems to be every chance it could be solved. It almost certainly will not happen if we revert to the police investigation being cancelled for any reason apart from having reached the end of the evidence trail.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on September 13, 2018, 07:00:57 PM
Just pointing out what was written. The Sun being close to the couple n all, you’d think abducted would be a given.
Do you think the Sun have been privately briefed by the Met then? Or has a memrandum been sent out to the media by the government to cease and desist the use of the A word...? *%87 *%6^
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2018, 07:25:43 AM
It's a sign of how little sceptics have to support their argument that they should take so much encouragement to such an insignificant detail
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on September 14, 2018, 07:28:05 AM
Apart from the headline that story is exactly the same as the previous one shared by Brietta.
In that article too the Home Office hadn't received an official request from Scotland Yard.
Ergo a rehash with a sensational headline and IMO totally pointless.
Apologies Erngath for earlier misreading your post.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: xtina on September 14, 2018, 07:29:40 AM
Do you think the Sun have been privately briefed by the Met then? Or has a memrandum been sent out to the media by the government to cease and desist the use of the A word...? *%87 *%6^
Or has a memrandum been sent out to the media by the government to cease and desist the use of the A word...?
Or stop printing fake news........
Probably be getting ...another serialisation from the mccs soon.......
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on September 14, 2018, 10:45:24 AM
Do you think the Sun have been privately briefed by the Met then? Or has a memrandum been sent out to the media by the government to cease and desist the use of the A word...? *%87 *%6^
Not at all but if the McCanns have been ruled out, as many on here claim, then shouldn’t the word be abducted not disappeared?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on September 14, 2018, 10:51:00 AM
The link I provided states the Sun contacted the home office, so I don't see why it's in any way amusing that FaithLilly is discussing what is said in The Sun. It's hardly from an anonymous 'source close to the family' like so much of the McCann clap-trap stories.
"The Met Police said earlier this week it was 'in dialogue' with the Home Office over more funding to carry on the 11-year hunt - which has cost £11million to date.
But the Home Office today told The Sun Online no formal request has been made."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2018, 10:53:43 AM
The link I provided states the Sun contacted the home office, so I don't see why it's in any way amusing that FaithLilly is discussing what is said in The Sun. It's hardly from an anonymous 'source close to the family' like so much of the McCann clap-trap stories.
"The Met Police said earlier this week it was 'in dialogue' with the Home Office over more funding to carry on the 11-year hunt - which has cost £11million to date.
But the Home Office today told The Sun Online no formal request has been made."
that's exactly what has been said the last three times afaiaa
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on September 14, 2018, 11:15:18 AM
The link I provided states the Sun contacted the home office, so I don't see why it's in any way amusing that FaithLilly is discussing what is said in The Sun. It's hardly from an anonymous 'source close to the family' like so much of the McCann clap-trap stories.
"The Met Police said earlier this week it was 'in dialogue' with the Home Office over more funding to carry on the 11-year hunt - which has cost £11million to date.
But the Home Office today told The Sun Online no formal request has been made."
"Formal Request." Make what you will of that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on September 14, 2018, 11:19:50 AM
News Stories make money. Nothing interesting about that.
Really? Making money is a moot point, l'm sure everyone knows that. The UK Media are usually kept well versed or 'in the loop' by the McCann's spokesman Clarence. So this time he either told them porkies, or they didn't consult him for some reason. Maybe he isn't 'in the loop' anymore with the Met. ....so it is interesting IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 14, 2018, 01:17:40 PM
Really? Making money is a moot point, l'm sure everyone knows that. The UK Media are usually kept well versed or 'in the loop' by the McCann's spokesman Clarence. So this time he either told them porkies, or they didn't consult him for some reason. Maybe he isn't 'in the loop' anymore with the Met. ....so it is interesting IMO.
Can you provide a Cite for Clarence Mitchell being involved in this?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: xtina on September 14, 2018, 04:29:10 PM
Do you think the Sun have been privately briefed by the Met then? Or has a memrandum been sent out to the media by the government to cease and desist the use of the A word...? *%87 *%6^
The Sun? Rubbish when it supports The McCanns and Spot On when it doesn't.
No, it's rubbish all the time. What is interesting is that it is allowing its reader to express their views freely. Previously only the Mail has been so outspoken.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: xtina on September 14, 2018, 05:01:30 PM
No, it's rubbish all the time. What is interesting is that it is allowing its reader to express their views freely. Previously only the Mail has been so outspoken.
LOL i know.............surley some of them are libelous....
The Sun could be guilty by association ... but seems they don't care what is written.........
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on September 14, 2018, 05:51:58 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2018, 11:16:08 AM
EXCLUSIVE: Gerry McCann to open up about his mental health struggles in 'honest, personal and sometimes painful' Radio 4 interview 11 years after daughter Maddie vanished https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6173813/Gerry-McCann-open-mental-health-struggles-Radio-4-interview.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on September 17, 2018, 04:12:56 PM
EXCLUSIVE: Gerry McCann to open up about his mental health struggles in 'honest, personal and sometimes painful' Radio 4 interview 11 years after daughter Maddie vanished https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6173813/Gerry-McCann-open-mental-health-struggles-Radio-4-interview.html
Thanks G-Unit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on September 17, 2018, 08:00:24 PM
The Sun have the story about Gerry's interview on mental health but have chosen to put the video of Eddie and Keela alerting to the car and 5a at the bottom of the story. With the caption ' Video of sniffer dogs by rental car and in apartment of parents of Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz.
The Sun have the story about Gerry's interview on mental health but have chosen to put the video of Eddie and Keela alerting to the car and 5a at the bottom of the story. With the caption ' Video of sniffer dogs by rental car and in apartment of parents of Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz.
The Sun have the story about Gerry's interview on mental health but have chosen to put the video of Eddie and Keela alerting to the car and 5a at the bottom of the story. With the caption ' Video of sniffer dogs by rental car and in apartment of parents of Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz.
How often has that video been put up with stories about the McCanns in the last 11 years? I'd hazard a guess and say not at all since they started suing Goncalo Amaral and many other people at the end of 2007. So you could say it's pretty unusual to plonk it next to a story about the McCanns.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 17, 2018, 08:57:46 PM
How often has that video been put up with stories about the McCanns in the last 11 years? I'd hazard a guess and say not at all since they started suing Goncalo Amaral and many other people at the end of 2007. So you could say it's pretty unusual to plonk it next to a story about the McCanns.
Yes I really have to ask what the paper would be afraid of, you failed to answer the question.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on September 17, 2018, 08:59:56 PM
Probably on very shaky ground since 2017, that's the point IMO.
Unless the videos were faked or made a specific untrue allegation they would have no grounds to sue. Have they ever sued any media outlet that has shown this video in the past?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2018, 09:16:39 PM
Probably on very shaky ground since 2017, that's the point IMO.
I dont think you have a point...showing a dog video is not libellous and never has been libellous...you're mistaken...what difference do you think 2017 has made..its made none
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 17, 2018, 09:21:08 PM
Unless the videos were faked or made a specific untrue allegation they would have no grounds to sue. Have they ever sued any media outlet that has shown this video in the past?
Has any media outlet ever shown that video previously?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on September 17, 2018, 09:23:16 PM
I dont think you have a point...showing a dog video is not libellous and never has been libellous...you're mistaken
I didn't say the video was libellous. Why has it never been shown under a McCann story in the last 10 years by UK MSM? As far as I can see it hasn't.
If a person or organisation has a lot of money and legal clout behind them many papers won't even take the chance of airing something that could be seen as libel. The UK media has been very careful over the last 10 years, now it would seem they aren't as bothered IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 17, 2018, 09:25:56 PM
I didn't say the video was libellous. Why has it never been shown under a McCann story in the last 10 years by UK MSM? As far as I can see it hasn't.
If a person or organisation has a lot of money and legal clout behind them many papers won't even take the chance of airing something that could be seen as libel. The UK media has been very careful over the last 10 years, now it would seem they aren't as bothered IMO.
it couldnt be seen as libel imo...as i said...I think someones having a bit of fun...and again...2017 has made no difference....amarals book would still be libellous in the uk
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 17, 2018, 10:30:36 PM
Has any media outlet ever shown that video previously?
Short memory haven’t you? Or did you not watch last year’s Panorama which shows a clip of Eddie alerting in the McCanns apartment?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 17, 2018, 11:07:28 PM
Also a short clip of Eddie barking by the hire car was shown in the Sky doc. “Searching For Madeleine”, the video clip has Sun logos on it, do they own the copyright? Maybe that’s the connection.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on September 17, 2018, 11:46:42 PM
Also a short clip of Eddie barking by the hire car was shown in the Sky doc. “Searching For Madeleine”, the video clip has Sun logos on it, do they own the copyright? Maybe that’s the connection.
The video, when shown, is always quickly followed by the disclaimer that nothing of a forensic nature was found and the parents were cleared. Anything in that vein here ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 17, 2018, 11:56:00 PM
The video, when shown, is always quickly followed by the disclaimer that nothing of a forensic nature was found and the parents were cleared. Anything in that vein here ?
Only what Martin says on the video words to the effect - "Keela has found blood but it is important to remember that she doesn't say who's blood it was".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 18, 2018, 07:12:19 AM
The video, when shown, is always quickly followed by the disclaimer that nothing of a forensic nature was found and the parents were cleared. Anything in that vein here ?
Yes, pretty much the whole (sympathetic) article above it, in particular this bit
“The following summer the McCanns were cleared by investigators in Portugal who declared they had exhausted all avenues in the case”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on September 18, 2018, 10:03:17 AM
I think they have. it was a long time since I said "Was it a case of Sun stroke?"
New thread maybe http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10176.msg488988#msg488988?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 26, 2018, 10:41:09 AM
It is apparent that Scotland Yard still has work to do as far as investigating Madeleine's disappearance is concerned, in my opinion they would not be asking for continued funding if they were ready to quit because they had reached the end of the line.
It seems that it is still possible that Madeleine's case is still capable of being resolved ~ and one can only hope that will be to Madeleine's benefit and that of her family.
Madeleine McCann probe police seek more cash The Home Office is considering an application from Scotland Yard for extra funding to continue the hunt for the missing girl.
September 26 2018
Scotland Yard bosses have applied for more funding to continue the hunt for Madeleine McCann.
There was speculation over the future of the investigation when it emerged that funding would run out at the end of September.
But the Home Office has now confirmed that it is considering an application from the force for more cash.
In a blog published on Wednesday, it said: “We have received and are considering a request from the Metropolitan Police Service to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.
“The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.”
Madeleine was three when she was last seen on holiday with her parents in Praia da Luz in Portugal in May 2007.
Scotland Yard launched its own investigation, Operation Grange, into her disappearance in 2013 after a Portuguese inquiry failed to make any headway.
UK detectives were granted an extra £150,000 in March to continue the probe, to cover until the end of September.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on September 26, 2018, 10:50:44 AM
“There has been media coverage of funding for Operation Grange, the Metropolitan Police Service’s (MPS) operation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Some of the recent coverage has suggested that funding for Operation Grange will expire on 30 September 2018, and that the MPS will be unable to continue the operation thereafter unless additional funds are provided.
We have received and are considering a request from the MPS to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.
Funding for Special Grant applications can be paid retrospectively for operational work already done in the same financial year. It is therefore incorrect to suggest that the MPS would have to discontinue its operational work after 30 September 2018 unless additional funds were provided in advance of this date.
The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.
Special Grant funding is usually available to police forces when they face significant or exceptional costs. The cost of Operation Grange – which, to date, is £11.6m – has been met through Special Grant funding.
As usual, full details of any Special Grant awards in 2018/19 will be published after the end of the financial year.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 26, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
“There has been media coverage of funding for Operation Grange, the Metropolitan Police Service’s (MPS) operation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Some of the recent coverage has suggested that funding for Operation Grange will expire on 30 September 2018, and that the MPS will be unable to continue the operation thereafter unless additional funds are provided.
We have received and are considering a request from the MPS to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.
Funding for Special Grant applications can be paid retrospectively for operational work already done in the same financial year. It is therefore incorrect to suggest that the MPS would have to discontinue its operational work after 30 September 2018 unless additional funds were provided in advance of this date.
The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.
Special Grant funding is usually available to police forces when they face significant or exceptional costs. The cost of Operation Grange – which, to date, is £11.6m – has been met through Special Grant funding.
As usual, full details of any Special Grant awards in 2018/19 will be published after the end of the financial year.”
Which would indicate Grange still has things to investigate
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on September 26, 2018, 11:19:15 AM
That depends on the person sought. If within EU they can accept the extradition request immediately and be returned within days or refuse extradition in which case the entire process can become protracted and even eventually fail.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on September 26, 2018, 12:00:21 PM
That depends on the person sought. If within EU they can accept the extradition request immediately and be returned within days or refuse extradition in which case the entire process can become protracted and even eventually fail.
You should have stuck it out. What a fit up. In my opinion, of course.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on September 26, 2018, 01:28:19 PM
It proves they want more money and indicates they have more work to do
Indeed; which work could be a variety of things. Including but not limited to. New leads to follow Box it up then consign to archive having hit the buffers. Box it up and pass to CPS for action in UK Box it up and pass to CPS to pass to Portuguese Ministry of Justice for action in Portugal.
Faites vos jeux.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 26, 2018, 01:52:07 PM
Indeed; which work could be a variety of things. Including but not limited to. New leads to follow Box it up then consign to archive having hit the buffers. Box it up and pass to CPS for action in UK Box it up and pass to CPS to pass to Portuguese Ministry of Justice for action in Portugal.
Faites vos jeux.
As they wouldn't need 6 months to box anything up that leaves explore leads
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 26, 2018, 02:28:12 PM
I don't think that Scotland Yard approach the Home Office cap in hand when the tabloids remind them the period of grace allowed to financing Madeleine's case is due to expire.
Snip “The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.”
In my opinion that says it all ... there is a rolling programme in place during which the investigators keep the HO informed of progress or lack of it.
In my opinion it would not be a very astute politician who as Home Secretary would run the risk of ending up with egg on his/her face as a result of not being kept up to speed on a high profile case for which the undertaking had been given for finance to be approved ... and taking decisions based on intelligence received.
I think if Scotland Yard have gone to the trouble of justifying the request for a further six month extension to finance Madeleine's case it is because they deem it necessary to do so. If the Home Office agrees the extension it means they have been convinced of the validity of the case being presented to them ... so here's hoping they will do that ... and here's hoping it is another step towards solving Madeleine's case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on September 26, 2018, 03:09:11 PM
Madeleine v Reported Missing
Monday night's Reported Missing prog gave a lot on insight into missing person searches in the UK and cold case searches.
For anyone inside the UK, watch it on iPlayer at https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0blqjw0/reported-missing-series-2-episode-4
For anyone outside the UK, the poor man's version is at https://shininginluz.wordpress.com/2018/09/26/madeleine-v-reported-missing/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 26, 2018, 03:36:12 PM
This will be the last lead they asked more money for last time? seems like the last lead is being the longest and more costly than all other leads? digging a hole in the ocean seems to be an apt description of this one.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 26, 2018, 10:42:15 PM
If the Portuguese were seeking the extradition of UK citizens why would this be conducted in secret, unlike in other cases in which media reports have named those threatened with extradition?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on September 26, 2018, 10:58:55 PM
This is from the Home Office Blog about Operation Grange
Funding for Operation Grange Posted by: HO News Team, Posted on: 25 September 2018 - Categories: Leading stories, Reactive statements, Uncategorised
The Home Office responds to media coverage on funding for Operation Grange.
Home Office in the media
There has been media coverage of funding for Operation Grange, the Metropolitan Police Service’s (MPS) operation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Some of the recent coverage has suggested that funding for Operation Grange will expire on 30 September 2018, and that the MPS will be unable to continue the operation thereafter unless additional funds are provided.
We have received and are considering a request from the MPS to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.
Funding for Special Grant applications can be paid retrospectively for operational work already done in the same financial year. It is therefore incorrect to suggest that the MPS would have to discontinue its operational work after 30 September 2018 unless additional funds were provided in advance of this date.
The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.
Special Grant funding is usually available to police forces when they face significant or exceptional costs. The cost of Operation Grange – which, to date, is £11.6m – has been met through Special Grant funding.
As usual, full details of any Special Grant awards in 2018/19 will be published after the end of the financial year. https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2018/09/25/home-office-in-the-media/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on September 26, 2018, 11:42:35 PM
Are OG and the PJ so close to a resolution to this case that another six months of funding isn’t necessary ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on September 27, 2018, 12:22:23 AM
Are OG and the PJ so close to a resolution to this case that another six months of funding isn’t necessary ?
I don't think the PJ are doing any work on the case. As for SY, if they really had credible leads they would finish the job regardless of funding. Consequently the request for more funds can be considered nothing more than 'a dripping roast'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on September 27, 2018, 07:32:20 AM
I don't think the PJ are doing any work on the case. As for SY, if they really had credible leads they would finish the job regardless of funding. Consequently the request for more funds can be considered nothing more than 'a dripping roast'.
You must think the government is massively stupid that they’d consider further funding if OG weren’t making a good case for it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 27, 2018, 08:09:02 AM
Six months seems to have been the norm. Interestingly though not this time it seems.
I believe that after so many years, and so many £millions spent it is time for the Yard to either give information on what our money is being spent on or pack it in.
It has gone on enough without any evidence that they are getting anywhere. Just my opinion but as resources are scarce and other crimes are not being adequately investigated it is time to say enough is enough.
No need to provide a cite on this one but here are two examples. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/knife-crime-young-people-unsolved-stabbings-soar-police-figures-a8410491.html https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/16/low-level-crimes-to-go-uninvestigated-in-met-police-spending-cuts
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on September 28, 2018, 02:41:00 PM
Six months seems to have been the norm. Interestingly though not this time it seems.
Indeed not. Another poster must have been thinking "box it up" meant putting it in cardboard boxes @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 28, 2018, 04:41:12 PM
LOL ... Erngath fame at last!!!
Although if you deigned to reply ... I think you might very well be spoilt for choice as far as semi-literacy and ignorance is concerned.
I rather tend to go for "mean spirited" for starters. Good of Sherlock to advertise the forum though.
Snip sherlock holmes 29 minutes ago Which of the semi-literate and ignorant posts do you find most unintentionally hilarious on here then Erngath?
What do you think of the full public enquiry when the case is shelved idea? A semi illiterate one is it?The comments on here aren't anymore depressing than some of those posted on the UK Justice Forum.Remember that the next time you talk about spite.
Although if you deigned to reply ... I think you might very well be spoilt for choice as far as semi-literacy and ignorance is concerned.
I rather tend to go for "mean spirited" for starters. Good of Sherlock to advertise the forum though.
Snip sherlock holmes 29 minutes ago Which of the semi-literate and ignorant posts do you find most unintentionally hilarious on here then Erngath?
What do you think of the full public enquiry when the case is shelved idea? A semi illiterate one is it?The comments on here aren't anymore depressing than some of those posted on the UK Justice Forum.Remember that the next time you talk about spite.
My "fame" is thanks to Jassi who did provide the link and did mention the comments.
Wouldn't my old English teacher be pleased, mentioned in a comment in the Sun.? I will not be revisiting the comments . Once was quite enough! @)(++(*
Normally I don't bother ... same old, same old comments and commentators ... so predictable and tiresome. I found that one though was a hoot as I visualised the amount of head scratching it would generate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on September 28, 2018, 07:28:03 PM
Is this a good time to say, "No Shit, Sherlock?"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on September 29, 2018, 06:35:48 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45694119
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 29, 2018, 08:21:23 PM
Indeed; which work could be a variety of things. Including but not limited to. New leads to follow Box it up then consign to archive having hit the buffers. Box it up and pass to CPS for action in UK Box it up and pass to CPS to pass to Portuguese Ministry of Justice for action in Portugal.
Faites vos jeux.
I fancy the first and the last
1) New leads to folllow, or maybe further evidence to obtain 2) Box it up and pass to CPS to pass to Portuguese Ministry of Justice for action in Portugal.
With Elites and mega Organisations which appear extraordinarily good to the eye, it will take a lot of evidence to prosecute
.... and as you know, I think that Elites (untouchables) and mega 'sweet smelling' Organisations (also untouchables?) are involved. I believe that they have deliberately developed a well publicized 'whiter than white' image whilst carry on nefarious money making schemes behind the scenes, such as trafficking
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on September 29, 2018, 11:40:41 PM
1) New leads to folllow, or maybe further evidence to obtain 2) Box it up and pass to CPS to pass to Portuguese Ministry of Justice for action in Portugal.
With Elites and mega Organisations which appear extraordinarily good to the eye, it will take a lot of evidence to prosecute
.... and as you know, I think that Elites (untouchables) and mega 'sweet smelling' Organisations (also untouchables?) are involved. I believe that they have deliberately developed a well publicized 'whiter than white' image whilst carry on nefarious money making schemes behind the scenes, such as trafficking
You would have thought Elites and Mega Organisations would have enough money without resorting to kidnapping. Not exactly the most lucrative pastime, especially if you don’t send a ransom note.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on September 30, 2018, 01:06:06 AM
You would have thought Elites and Mega Organisations would have enough money without resorting to kidnapping. Not exactly the most lucrative pastime, especially if you don’t send a ransom note.
Trafficking, smuggling, drug production and distribution, slavery etc. are some of the most lucrative global money making occupations afflicting humanity.
They started as piracy, Privateering, smuggling and raiding other countries to steal their wealth etc. Much of it was started by Kings , Aristocrats, and Powers That Be
Alice seems to know a lot about it. His Avatars have included a pirate, a Viking axe, a Viking helmet IIRC, ... plus also using the Christian and original family name of an English family who became British Aristocrats,. This was written in a way that indicated that he seemed to know the family imo. This family were Privateers and made their massive wealth and built their pile, probably slave labour (imo) from the proceeds of Privateering. Titles were awarded historically to many men who brutally raised wealth for Kings and the like, through Privateeering
Ask Alice. I feel sure that he will be able to enlighten you with his interest in kit all. I think he said that he was from Viking descent, which a lot of us are because they raped or butchered everyone in sight in The British Isles.
All fact or in my opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on October 01, 2018, 10:31:56 AM
Well midnight came and went with out so much as a bye your leave from Grange,is it still continuing?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on October 01, 2018, 10:46:19 AM
I saw on FB and twitter that OG's request for further funds had been accepted. Don't know if it is true or not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on October 01, 2018, 10:58:18 AM
Wonderful news, if so. Any of you begrudge your pennies to support the search? Remember, for every man woman and child in the UK, the 7+ years search has so far cost around 2 pence each year
Just tuppence each.
[Modified per Slartis observations]
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 01, 2018, 12:19:07 PM
Wonderful news, if so. Any of you begrudge your pennies to support the search? Remember, for every man woman and child in the UK, the 6+ years search has so far cost under 1.8 pence each
Less than tuppence each.
IMO we should also consider though, how many other cold cases are not being investigated by Scotland Yard or other police forces, possibly at the expense of Madeleine's case. How many other families who have a member either missing or murdered and who have no chance of finding out the truth about their loved ones.
They may begrudge Operation Grange getting nearly £12 million as there loved ones get nothing or next to nothing, IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2018, 01:07:15 PM
IMO we should also consider though, how many other cold cases are not being investigated by Scotland Yard or other police forces, possibly at the expense of Madeleine's case. How many other families who have a member either missing or murdered and who have no chance of finding out the truth about their loved ones.
They may begrudge Operation Grange getting nearly £12 million as there loved ones get nothing or next to nothing, IMO.
Could you give us a cold case not being investigated due to lack of money
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 01, 2018, 01:11:58 PM
As I understand it's not being investigated as there are no leads.... Not due to lack of money
But are there no leads Davel? How can they find leads if they don't investigate. According to the pictured article earlier it is a "new lead" that may have lead to Madeleine's case continuing.
I have looked on google and can't find any reference to that story, which is strange.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on October 01, 2018, 01:25:16 PM
But are there no leads Davel? How can they find leads if they don't investigate. According to the pictured article earlier it is a "new lead" that may have lead to Madeleine's case continuing.
I have looked on google and can't find any reference to that story, which is strange.
Tho police in the case you quoted say all investigative leads have been exhausted.... In the Maddie case according to the police they havent
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 01, 2018, 02:45:08 PM
So no examples of missing people not being investigated due to lack of money... That's, what you claimed... Many other cases and you haven't been able to quote one
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on October 01, 2018, 04:17:59 PM
Portugal resident is reporting funding not granted.
Operation Grange - the controversial British police investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann - has reached the ‘official closure’ of its funding. At least this is the version of reports circulating in Portugal this week. In UK, the Home Office line is that expenses on any future operations “could be paid retroactively” - intimating the probe is still active. There are even reports that a final decision on funding is still being considered. But it seems largely an issue of semantics. Here, tabloid Correio da Manhã leads on the ‘bottom line’ which is that “after seven years and over €13 million spent, the investigation by British authorities is approaching its end without producing any result”. CM stresses that Grange has followed various leads “but never the possibility of involvement of Maddie’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, in the (child’s) disappearance. “The couple and friends with whom they spent holidays at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz in 2007 never made any statements within the scope of Operation Grange”. CM questions former Portuguese minister for Internal Administration Rui Pereira, himself a well-known commentator and indeed critic on this case. Pereira stresses that in his opinion Grange has always been politically directed. It’s a suggestion that has come from multiple sources, not least former Metropolitan police detective chief inspector Colin Sutton, and former ambassador Craig Murray (click here and click here). Meantime, in UK mainstream papers have been focusing on Madeleine’s father Gerry’s latest interview with BBC Radio 4, centering on the incredibly special relationship that he had with his missing daughter (click here) natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 01, 2018, 04:23:07 PM
Operation Grange - the controversial British police investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann - has reached the ‘official closure’ of its funding. At least this is the version of reports circulating in Portugal this week. In UK, the Home Office line is that expenses on any future operations “could be paid retroactively” - intimating the probe is still active. There are even reports that a final decision on funding is still being considered. But it seems largely an issue of semantics. Here, tabloid Correio da Manhã leads on the ‘bottom line’ which is that “after seven years and over €13 million spent, the investigation by British authorities is approaching its end without producing any result”. CM stresses that Grange has followed various leads “but never the possibility of involvement of Maddie’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, in the (child’s) disappearance. “The couple and friends with whom they spent holidays at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz in 2007 never made any statements within the scope of Operation Grange”. CM questions former Portuguese minister for Internal Administration Rui Pereira, himself a well-known commentator and indeed critic on this case. Pereira stresses that in his opinion Grange has always been politically directed. It’s a suggestion that has come from multiple sources, not least former Metropolitan police detective chief inspector Colin Sutton, and former ambassador Craig Murray (click here and click here). Meantime, in UK mainstream papers have been focusing on Madeleine’s father Gerry’s latest interview with BBC Radio 4, centering on the incredibly special relationship that he had with his missing daughter (click here) natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
So we still don't know.. This is new isn't it. The Sun going out to say funding continues in the paper version but it not going online. No other Uk media picking up this story and then this from Portugal.
Thanks barrier for the information *&(+(+
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on October 01, 2018, 04:29:14 PM
I guess we'll have to wait and see who else picks up on the story. If true it'll be interesting to see OG's end of term report.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 01, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
I don’t see how the Met can ever justify the amount of money spent on OG if, as we are lead to believe, the involvement of the parents was never considered.
The archiving report did not clear the parents, a fact made clear in the SC’s judgement, and of course we don’t know what leads the PJ have been following. Is the pulling of Rowley’s statement claiming the parents guilt had been dealt with by the first Portuguese investigation significant ? I suppose only time will tell.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 01, 2018, 05:16:45 PM
I don’t see how the Met can ever justify the amount of money spent on OG if, as we are lead to believe, the involvement of the parents was never considered.
The archiving report did not clear the parents, a fact made clear in the SC’s judgement, and of course we don’t know what leads the PJ have been following. Is the pulling of Rowley’s statement claiming the parents guilt had been dealt with by the first Portuguese investigation significant ? I suppose only time will tell.
We don't know what OG is investigating and we can't rule out their looking at the parents. They obviously have their reasons to keep everything under wraps. What's the use of a criminal investigation if the police are going to give the public a running commentary, especially if any suspects are still walking free. Also, it seems that the PJ asked that the UK authorities keep things secret.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 01, 2018, 09:06:04 PM
I can’t find the Operation Grange remit on the Met site. Could someone please post the link ?
The Met site appears to have changed its search function or removed certain items. The remit said this:
Op Grange Remit
The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1.
The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an ‘investigative review’. This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy);
• The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies. • UK Law Enforcement agencies, • Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.
The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.
It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.
The ‘investigative review’ will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness.
The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit.
End
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 01, 2018, 09:06:35 PM
We don't know what OG is investigating and we can't rule out their looking at the parents. They obviously have their reasons to keep everything under wraps. What's the use of a criminal investigation if the police are going to give the public a running commentary, especially if any suspects are still walking free. Also, it seems that the PJ asked that the UK authorities keep things secret.
That is absolutely correct Monclair. That is the reason SY stepped in and told them to shut up at the anniversary- because if they wanted any assistance from the PJ they would have to abide by their terms and conditions. Hence why we have been getting 'friends of the family' or those close to the investigation' BS.
Nice move to have a BBC radio show 'invented' for Gerry- to get your story retold the way you want it told. Are we going to hear from mums who have lost daughters? Oh No not Kate...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on October 01, 2018, 09:15:39 PM
The Met site appears to have changed its search function or removed certain items. The remit said this:
Op Grange Remit
The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1.
The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an ‘investigative review’. This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy);
• The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies. • UK Law Enforcement agencies, • Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.
The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.
It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.
The ‘investigative review’ will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness.
The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit.
End
Thanks Alice. It seems the remit and Rowley’s 10th anniversary interview has disappeared.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 01, 2018, 09:40:58 PM
The Met site appears to have changed its search function or removed certain items. The remit said this:
Op Grange Remit
The support and expertise proffered by the Commissioner will be provided by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command - SCD1.
The activity, in the first instance, will be that of an ‘investigative review’. This will entail a review of the whole of the investigation(s) which have been conducted in to the circumstances of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.
The focus of the review will be of the material held by three main stakeholders (and in the following order of primacy);
• The Portuguese Law Enforcement agencies. • UK Law Enforcement agencies, • Other private investigative agencies/staff and organisations.
The investigative review is intended to collate, record and analyse what has gone before.
It is to examine the case and seek to determine, (as if the abduction occurred in the UK) what additional, new investigative approaches we would take and which can assist the Portuguese authorities in progressing the matter. Whilst ordinarily a review has no investigative remit whatsoever- the scale and extent of this enquiry cannot permit for such an approach. It will take too long to progress to any “action stage” if activity is given wholly and solely to a review process.
The ‘investigative review’ will be conducted with transparency, openness and thoroughness.
The work will be overseen through the Gold Group management structure, which will also manage the central relationships with other key stakeholders and provide continuing oversight and direction to the investigative remit.
End
It seems the investigative review was as transparent as Madeleine's fund. Wonder why the Met haven't updated the information as it is a full investigation now and has been for years.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on October 02, 2018, 01:30:57 AM
IMO we should also consider though, how many other cold cases are not being investigated by Scotland Yard or other police forces, possibly at the expense of Madeleine's case. How many other families who have a member either missing or murdered and who have no chance of finding out the truth about their loved ones.
They may begrudge Operation Grange getting nearly £12 million as there loved ones get nothing or next to nothing, IMO.
I can understand that,
1) but had SY got as many clues on those cases as in the Madeleine case? So many witnesses to strange sightings etc
2) Did the police in those cases behave in a similar manner to the way that the chief, Amaral, behaved ?
3) Did the country where the various children went missing have so many extraordinarily bizarre findings in the cases as in Portugal?
4) Did they have any thoughts about trafficking as seems to have been the case here? Investigating that would cost a fortune.
4) Did any of the other cases have an old woman come and give them a huge number of thought provoking opinions, and ensuing ideas, as happened in this case. Bringing them a completely fresh outlook on the case, the likes of which nobody had thought of before?
Think about it, Sunny
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on October 02, 2018, 02:00:41 AM
It's now the 2nd of October. This date was significant in 2007 - will it be significant in 2018?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on October 02, 2018, 03:43:15 AM
1) but had SY got as many clues on those cases as in the Madeleine case? So many witnesses to strange sightings etc
2) Did the police in those cases behave in a similar manner to the way that the chief, Amaral, behaved ?
3) Did the country where the various children went missing have so many extraordinarily bizarre findings in the cases as in Portugal?
4) Did they have any thoughts about trafficking as seems to have been the case here? Investigating that would cost a fortune.
4) Did any of the other cases have an old woman come and give them a huge number of thought provoking opInions, and ensuing ideas, as happened in this case. Bringing them a completely fresh outlook on the case, the likes of which nobody had thought of before?
Think about it, Sunny
Sadie I have thought about it and have some answers.
1) There almost certainly wont have been as many strange sightings as I don't expect that any missing person has ever had the mass media coverage that Madeleine Mccann has.
2) Goncalo Amaral was only one policeman (there were many others working on the case at the time he was the "chief" and he was removed from the case in October 2007. The investigation continued on until July 2008. I believe that the replacement "chiefs" also suspected the McCanns.
3) I didn't say children I said missing family members. "Bizarre" is all in the eyes of the beholder IMO. I find the Caylee Anthony case findings bizarre and I believe that the police were correct in that instance.
4) I assume you are the "old woman" sadie. I doubt that many cases would have someone of your clear interest travel to another country more than once to try and piece together what they thought may have happened. That is down to media coverage again though. Most missing people do not get the mass exposure that Madeleine's case has. This from the first 12 hours as well. Whether Scotland Yard are taking your information seriously I have no idea as they haven't contacted me to tell me their views.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on October 02, 2018, 08:49:35 AM
Thinking about this overnight, I wonder if we are seeing a change of HO tactics.
Instead of giving money in advance in response to claims of 'viable leads' , perhaps they are going for the 'payment by result' approach. SY now to pay for further work and will be reimbursed if they can demonstrate progress.
Could be a cunning way of phasing the investigation out without a big hoo-ha from 'interested parties'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on October 02, 2018, 09:25:32 AM
Thinking about this overnight, I wonder if we are seeing a change of HO tactics.
Instead of giving money in advance in response to claims of 'viable leads' , perhaps they are going for the 'payment by result' approach. SY now to pay for further work and will be reimbursed if they can demonstrate progress.
Could be a cunning way of phasing the investigation out without a big hoo-ha from 'interested parties'.
Perhaps it is already in the hands of the CPS ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on October 02, 2018, 09:36:42 AM
So you don’t think OG may have suspect’s in their sights ? Do you believe they’ve spent £12 million pounds for nothing ?
I don't think Operation Grange have built a case against the McCanns and have handed it over to the CPS a belief you appear to be clinging to for dear life.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 02, 2018, 10:32:47 AM
So you don’t think OG may have suspect’s in their sights ? Do you believe they’ve spent £12 million pounds for nothing ?
They have tried to pin the blame on several different people, both Portuguese and English but to no avail. But in the end I fear they are no closer to solving this case that they were at the outset.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 02, 2018, 10:34:43 AM
I don't think Operation Grange have built a case against the McCanns and have handed it over to the CPS a belief you appear to be clinging to for dear life.
Isn't that why Sutton wants a full investigation of everything?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on October 02, 2018, 10:37:13 AM
I don't think Operation Grange have built a case against the McCanns and have handed it over to the CPS a belief you appear to be clinging to for dear life.
That’s not what I asked.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on October 02, 2018, 10:38:05 AM
Do I think OP Grange have a suspect in their sights? Maybe. Do I believe they have spent £12m on nothing? Not quite nothing, but I do believe the case may never be solved despite their best efforts. What I don't believe is that dawn raids on Rothley are due in this century or next, how about you?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on October 02, 2018, 10:45:30 AM
Do I think OP Grange have a suspect in their sights? Maybe. Do I believe they have spent £12m on nothing? Not quite nothing, but I do believe the case may never be solved despite their best efforts. What I don't believe is that dawn raids on Rothley are due in this century or next, how about you?
Why would there be dawn raids ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 02, 2018, 12:59:00 PM
Sutton has admitted hedoesnt know a lot about the case
He doesn't need to. As a former senior Met officer he will know that only a full in-depth investigation will get to the bottom of what happened to Madeleine McCann and anything less just doesn't cut it. I agree with him that Operation Grange should only be extended if that full encompassing enquiry takes place as to who did what and when.
The sorry sagas involving Red Defence/Oakley and Método 3 require a separate investigation to the disappearance of the child imo because clearly thinks were done which involved criminality. The Met or another UK force if deemed necessary must investigate the links between these so-called private investigators and everyone involved with the parents.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on October 02, 2018, 01:45:30 PM
He doesn't need to. As a former senior Met officer he will know that only a full in-depth investigation will get to the bottom of what happened to Madeleine McCann and anything less just doesn't cut it. I agree with him that Operation Grange should only be extended if that full encompassing enquiry takes place as to who did what and when.
The sorry sagas involving Red Defence/Oakley and Método 3 require a separate investigation to the disappearance of the child imo because clearly thinks were done which involved criminality. The Met or another UK force if deemed necessary must investigate the links between these so-called private investigators and everyone involved with the parents.
But other... More senior officers who are running Grange obviously don't agree, with him.... And we still don't know, exactly what he means..
Grange is struggling IMO because what it investigates is limited by the PJ... They cannot investigate freely in Portugal which is, where the crime took place...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 02, 2018, 01:51:55 PM
But other... More senior officers who are running Grange obviously don't agree, with him.... And we still don't know, exactly what he means..
Grange is struggling IMO because what it investigates is limited by the PJ... They cannot investigate freely in Portugal which is, where the crime took place...
I know exactly what Sutton means. As for investigating outside the UK, that has never been a problem. I'm quite confident that the Spanish National Police, the Portuguese Judicial Police and any other force would be only too pleased to cooperate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on October 02, 2018, 01:54:41 PM
I know exactly what Sutton means. As for investigating outside the UK, that has never been a problem.
Investigating outside the UK is a massive problem... SY cannot interview anyone... Ilors for everything... As I understand they wanted to take DNA from the 3 burhlglars but were refused...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 02, 2018, 01:58:32 PM
Investigating outside the UK is a massive problem... SY cannot interview anyone... Ilors for everything... As I understand they wanted to take DNA from the 3 burhlglars but were refused...
ILOR's are only required when there are no personnel on the ground. As for the three burglars, if the Portuguese did refuse to provide DNA samples then they must have had a valid reason for doing so.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 02, 2018, 02:02:02 PM
But other... More senior officers who are running Grange obviously don't agree, with him.... And we still don't know, exactly what he means..
Grange is struggling IMO because what it investigates is limited by the PJ... They cannot investigate freely in Portugal which is, where the crime took place...
We know exactly what he means. Sky 2/5/17.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 02, 2018, 02:08:06 PM
But other... More senior officers who are running Grange obviously don't agree, with him.... And we still don't know, exactly what he means..
Grange is struggling IMO because what it investigates is limited by the PJ... They cannot investigate freely in Portugal which is, where the crime took place...
Do you have a cite for what "more senior officers who are running Grange" think, Davel? How do you know they don't think exactly the same as Colin Sutton?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 02, 2018, 02:18:18 PM
”dawn raids on Rothley”, “tick tock”, “slowly, slowly catchee monkey” all oft heard mantras on the 3 Arguidos website, perhaps you weren’t a member. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on October 02, 2018, 05:53:41 PM
”dawn raids on Rothley”, “tick tock”, “slowly, slowly catchee monkey” all oft heard mantras on the 3 Arguidos website, perhaps you weren’t a member. @)(++(*
So what was the point of your post ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 02, 2018, 06:57:52 PM
Eventually it will be passed to the CPS as that is the way the system works. Otherwise OG would have had no objective whatever......except possibly "it all makes work for the working man to do".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 02, 2018, 07:05:34 PM
Here is my post again with the phrase “dawn raids at Rothley” replaced with “arrests in Rothley” - hopefully this will enable you to understand a bit better and to answer the post without deflecting.
Do I think OP Grange have a suspect in their sights? Maybe. Do I believe they have spent £12m on nothing? Not quite nothing, but I do believe the case may never be solved despite their best efforts. What I don't believe is that arrests in Rothley are due in this century or next, how about you?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 02, 2018, 07:09:37 PM
Eventually it will be passed to the CPS as that is the way the system works. Otherwise OG would have had no objective whatever......except possibly "it all makes work for the working man to do".
Even if there is no British suspect, or any suspect at all?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 02, 2018, 07:19:53 PM
Even if there is no British suspect, or any suspect at all?
What is the function of the CPS in your opinion then?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Snowgirl on October 02, 2018, 11:12:09 PM
New YouTube video Sonia Poulton https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw8ednZYRbI&t=768s (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw8ednZYRbI&t=768sp) Public Relations & Protecting Reputations
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 02, 2018, 11:14:21 PM
I should think there’s a clue in the name, particularly the second word.
IMO the CPS will be involved in forwarding to Portugal any relevant evidence/proof the Met. have uncovered during the course of their investigative review. There will be no prosecution in the UK as the Met have been denied certain investigative avenues in Portugal e.g. DNA swabs from the "burglars".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on October 03, 2018, 12:33:50 AM
IMO the CPS will be involved in forwarding to Portugal any relevant evidence/proof the Met. have uncovered during the course of their investigative review. There will be no prosecution in the UK as the Met have been denied certain investigative avenues in Portugal e.g. DNA swabs from the "burglars".
It is obvious that you have no understanding of the CPS’s role Misty.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on October 03, 2018, 12:50:41 AM
It is obvious that you have no understanding of the CPS’s role Misty.
Perhaps you'd care to explain their role, outside the handling of ILOR's, in a non-UK crime investigation review for the benefit of those of us who don't understand.
ETA Perhaps this will help explain how complicated it is. http://library.college.police.uk/docs/appref/european-cross-border-investigations.pdf
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 03, 2018, 07:12:11 AM
When parallel proceedings are coordinated, competent authorities should consider dealing with all the prosecutions in one jurisdiction, provided doing so is practicable, taking into account the effect that prosecuting some defendants in one jurisdiction might have on any prosecution in a second or third jurisdiction. Every effort should be made to prevent one prosecution from undermining another. ` The decision on where to prosecute should be reached as early as possible in the investigation or prosecution process and in full consultation with all the relevant authorities in each jurisdiction. ` Eurojust is in a privileged position to offer assistance to the concerned authorities in their efforts to cooperate and find solutions, at any time in all of the previous steps, and even to identify cases pending in Member States
So Misty the CPS can operate in another member state.
The above is the Eurojust guidelines published in 2017. Cite below
IMO the CPS will be involved in forwarding to Portugal any relevant evidence/proof the Met. have uncovered during the course of their investigative review. There will be no prosecution in the UK as the Met have been denied certain investigative avenues in Portugal e.g. DNA swabs from the "burglars".
Is it a fact that the Met were denied DNA swabs, or one of them there media rumours?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 03, 2018, 11:44:03 AM
In either event it would be interesting to know what they would compare them with?
There were hairs found in the apartment that could not be assigned to a known person. "4 - Mitochondrial DNA study" http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on October 03, 2018, 01:54:48 PM
There were hairs found in the apartment that could not be assigned to a known person. "4 - Mitochondrial DNA study" http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm
You might want to start a separate thread for this i.e. unmatched hairs.
In the past few days it has been established that Emma Knight was in 5a, and I don't remember her getting DNA tested.
Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me, but isn't Officer Duarte in the 'entered 5a/untested' category?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on October 03, 2018, 01:55:13 PM
There were hairs found in the apartment that could not be assigned to a known person. "4 - Mitochondrial DNA study" http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm
Mitochondrial DNA can't be assigned to a known person anyway. Jane Tanner, for example, matched mitochondrial DNA found in an apartment in Burgau, but no-one suggested she was there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 03, 2018, 03:44:20 PM
'Maddie's still in Portugal': Detective who worked on Madeleine McCann case believes she could be alive with no idea of world-wide hunt to find her - as police ask for more cash for search
Former detective Dave Edgar believes missing Madeleine McCann is still alive Speaking last year Mr Edgar claimed the disappearance was 'intricately planned' Mr Edgar said it was 'unlikely' that Madeleine was smuggled out of the country
A former detective has revealed he remains 'hopeful' that Madeleine McCann will be found alive in Portugal.
Former Detective Inspector Dave Edgar was hired by Kate and Gerry McCann to look into their daughter's disappearance and worked on the case for three years before it was taken over by the Met Police in 2011.
Speaking out today, Mr Edgar believes the case is 'solvable' and maintains there are 'people out there who know what happened'.
Last year Mr Edgar claimed the kidnapper was being protected and said the disappearance was 'intricately planned by a gang of paedophiles'.
He once said he believed Madeleine was being held in an underground cell or dungeon, like the victims of Josef Fritzl.
Mr Edgar told The Sun today there is still the chance of a breakthrough, adding: '[Madeleine] could literally be anywhere in the world but my hunch is that she is in Portugal.
The chance that she may have been smuggled out of the country without being detected is highly unlikely. There is someone in Portugal with an open knowledge of where she is and what happened.'
Last week, the Home Office confirmed it was considering an application from Scotland Yard for more funding to continue the hunt for the youngster.
In a blog published on September 26, it said: 'We have received and are considering a request from the Metropolitan Police Service to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.
'The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.'
Scotland Yard launched Operation Grange in 2013 after a Portuguese inquiry failed to make any headway.
UK detectives were granted an extra £150,000 in March to continue the probe, to cover until the end of September.
'Maddie's still in Portugal': Detective who worked on Madeleine McCann case believes she could be alive with no idea of world-wide hunt to find her - as police ask for more cash for search
Former detective Dave Edgar believes missing Madeleine McCann is still alive Speaking last year Mr Edgar claimed the disappearance was 'intricately planned' Mr Edgar said it was 'unlikely' that Madeleine was smuggled out of the country
A former detective has revealed he remains 'hopeful' that Madeleine McCann will be found alive in Portugal.
Former Detective Inspector Dave Edgar was hired by Kate and Gerry McCann to look into their daughter's disappearance and worked on the case for three years before it was taken over by the Met Police in 2011.
Speaking out today, Mr Edgar believes the case is 'solvable' and maintains there are 'people out there who know what happened'.
Last year Mr Edgar claimed the kidnapper was being protected and said the disappearance was 'intricately planned by a gang of paedophiles'.
He once said he believed Madeleine was being held in an underground cell or dungeon, like the victims of Josef Fritzl.
Mr Edgar told The Sun today there is still the chance of a breakthrough, adding: '[Madeleine] could literally be anywhere in the world but my hunch is that she is in Portugal.
The chance that she may have been smuggled out of the country without being detected is highly unlikely. There is someone in Portugal with an open knowledge of where she is and what happened.'
Last week, the Home Office confirmed it was considering an application from Scotland Yard for more funding to continue the hunt for the youngster.
In a blog published on September 26, it said: 'We have received and are considering a request from the Metropolitan Police Service to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.
'The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.'
Scotland Yard launched Operation Grange in 2013 after a Portuguese inquiry failed to make any headway.
UK detectives were granted an extra £150,000 in March to continue the probe, to cover until the end of September.
Mitochondrial DNA can't be assigned to a known person anyway. Jane Tanner, for example, matched mitochondrial DNA found in an apartment in Burgau, but no-one suggested she was there.
You would have a reason to look at it again if it does.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on October 03, 2018, 07:06:30 PM
Perhaps he's letting everyone know he's still available as Operation Grange seems to be tip-toeing away.
a
Right now it would be folly for the H.O or The Met to announce extra funding for the investigation into an eleven year old missing child case, in foreign parts that has already cost ca £12MM, against the backdrop of the inquest into those who died in the Westminster terror attack. Considering some of the blistering attacks by the coroner. Best maintain a hull down position.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 03, 2018, 08:02:28 PM
Speaking out today, Mr Edgar believes the case is 'solvable' and maintains there are 'people out there who know what happened'.
No shxt Sherlock!
At one point he thought the Algarve had a "lawless hinterland" wherein dwelled all sorts of undesirables. Similar to Copperhead Road or Kirby Hill I expect.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on October 03, 2018, 08:42:25 PM
Right now it would be folly for the H.O or The Met to announce extra funding for the investigation into an eleven year old missing child case, in foreign parts that has already cost ca £12MM, against the backdrop of the inquest into those who died in the Westminster terror attack. Considering some of the blistering attacks by the coroner. Best maintain a hull down position.
I think they are hoping it will all die a death quietly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on October 03, 2018, 09:31:11 PM
I think they are hoping it will all die a death quietly.
It may well do so. I can't imagine the PJ working on it, and the McCanns nay be prepared to let it go now, especially if the ECHR isn't interested in their complaint.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on October 03, 2018, 09:31:23 PM
They have a huge website which I commend to you. You may then be able to make a sensible comment on the role of the CPS.
Thank you. From their website
The CPS:
decides which cases should be prosecuted; determines the appropriate charges in more serious or complex cases, and advises the police during the early stages of investigations; prepares cases and presents them at court; and provides information, assistance and support to victims and prosecution witnesses.
So, if there is no suspect, and no case for prosecution what is their role then going forward ? Genuine question asked by a genuine idiot.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 03, 2018, 10:50:30 PM
'Maddie's still in Portugal': Detective who worked on Madeleine McCann case believes she could be alive with no idea of world-wide hunt to find her - as police ask for more cash for search
Former detective Dave Edgar believes missing Madeleine McCann is still alive Speaking last year Mr Edgar claimed the disappearance was 'intricately planned' Mr Edgar said it was 'unlikely' that Madeleine was smuggled out of the country
A former detective has revealed he remains 'hopeful' that Madeleine McCann will be found alive in Portugal.
Former Detective Inspector Dave Edgar was hired by Kate and Gerry McCann to look into their daughter's disappearance and worked on the case for three years before it was taken over by the Met Police in 2011.
Speaking out today, Mr Edgar believes the case is 'solvable' and maintains there are 'people out there who know what happened'.
Last year Mr Edgar claimed the kidnapper was being protected and said the disappearance was 'intricately planned by a gang of paedophiles'.
He once said he believed Madeleine was being held in an underground cell or dungeon, like the victims of Josef Fritzl.
Mr Edgar told The Sun today there is still the chance of a breakthrough, adding: '[Madeleine] could literally be anywhere in the world but my hunch is that she is in Portugal.
The chance that she may have been smuggled out of the country without being detected is highly unlikely. There is someone in Portugal with an open knowledge of where she is and what happened.'
Last week, the Home Office confirmed it was considering an application from Scotland Yard for more funding to continue the hunt for the youngster.
In a blog published on September 26, it said: 'We have received and are considering a request from the Metropolitan Police Service to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.
'The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.'
Scotland Yard launched Operation Grange in 2013 after a Portuguese inquiry failed to make any headway.
UK detectives were granted an extra £150,000 in March to continue the probe, to cover until the end of September.
And the most popular comment with over a thousand likes under this article?
“Do not give any more money PLEASE we all know she is still in Portugal ! buried somewhere”
How utterly vile some people are, to beg and plead for that child to be left to rot in the ground unfound and the mystery of her death never solved, that is if she is indeed dead which no one can say for certain apart from the person or people responsible for her disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 03, 2018, 11:16:51 PM
decides which cases should be prosecuted; determines the appropriate charges in more serious or complex cases, and advises the police during the early stages of investigations; prepares cases and presents them at court; and provides information, assistance and support to victims and prosecution witnesses.
So, if there is no suspecnd it.t, and no case for prosecution what is their role then going forward ? Genuine question asked by a genuine idiot.
You really need to look at the CPS role and powers for international cases where Letters of Request are required. I am sure if you dabble about in CPS/ACPO/College of Policing stuff you will find it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 03, 2018, 11:32:37 PM
You really need to look at the CPS role and powers for international cases where Letters of Request are required. I am sure if you dabble about in CPS/ACPO/College of Policing stuff you will find it.
I was asking specifically about their role at the conclusion of an investigation where no suspect has been identified and the case sheved or wound up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 04, 2018, 06:28:47 AM
I was asking specifically about their role at the conclusion of an investigation where no suspect has been identified and the case sheved or wound up.
Then the CPS would do nothing surely if there was no one to prosecute. IMO. Surely the Crown Prosecution Service is for enabling prosecution of someone not for closing a case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 04, 2018, 07:12:42 AM
Then the CPS would do nothing surely if there was no one to prosecute. IMO. Surely the Crown Prosecution Service is for enabling prosecution of someone not for closing a case.
Well those were my thoughts too but I was firmly put in my place by Alice for suggesting it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2018, 10:46:07 AM
Is SY now funding the case through their budget ? Does this point to the ‘last lead’ being a British one ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Snowgirl on October 04, 2018, 10:52:24 AM
And the most popular comment with over a thousand likes under this article?
“Do not give any more money PLEASE we all know she is still in Portugal ! buried somewhere”
How utterly vile some people are, to beg and plead for that child to be left to rot in the ground unfound and the mystery of her death never solved, that is if she is indeed dead which no one can say for certain apart from the person or people responsible for her disappearance.
Not neccesarily a vile remark .Could it have meant it’s up to the PJ to search , not OG ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on October 04, 2018, 10:52:41 AM
slightly off topic but it is 4 years ago today since brenda was hounded and killed herself RIP brenda leyland xx
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on October 04, 2018, 10:52:58 AM
Is SY now funding the case through their budget ? Does this point to the ‘last lead’ being a British one ?
The idea of paying retrospectively suggests to me that OG have no firm plans to do anything. If something should come up. they'll pay for any expenses and then claim back the money from the Home Office.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on October 04, 2018, 10:59:45 AM
The idea of paying retrospectively suggests to me that OG have no firm plans to do anything. If something should come up. they'll pay for any expenses and then claim back the money from the Home Office.
If that is the case surely the public would have been told, as with Claudia Lawrence.
Well those were my thoughts too but I was firmly put in my place by Alice for suggesting it.
As it is an international case the CPS will be involved throughout. My post to which you responded said: "Eventually it will be passed to the CPS as that is the way the system works. Otherwise OG would have had no objective whatever......except possibly "it all makes work for the working man to do". You seem to think differently or wanted to drag the conversation away from that particular issue.
Maybe this will help clarify:
CPS The CPS is a designated prosecuting authority under the Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003 (CICA). Every case the CPS deals with is allocated to a reviewing lawyer who is responsible for all aspects of the file, including the issue of letters of request (LOR) and extradition requests.
Early consultation with the CPS is required due to the timescales involved in producing the LOR, particularly in cases where arrest warrants are involved.
Some European countries may be very specific on the way information is requested. The Netherlands, for example, has strict privacy laws which subsequently mean that they require an LOR for almost any request for personal data. Investigators should provide the CPS with robust reasons why an LOR is needed. [/b]
That's clear enough I think. Should you have any queries, however, please hesitate to contact me and ponder whether your query would be more appropriately addressed to the CPS.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on October 04, 2018, 02:04:13 PM
Madeleine McCann search to CARRY ON even after official cash gone SCOTLAND YARD appeared to be footing the bill for the Madeleine McCann search last night as official cash dried up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on October 04, 2018, 02:24:46 PM
I think the money is being spent on Surveillance, The Bills for which would be submitted and paid retrospectively.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 04, 2018, 02:29:17 PM
Madeleine McCann search to CARRY ON even after official cash gone SCOTLAND YARD appeared to be footing the bill for the Madeleine McCann search last night as official cash dried up.
Wow! That's some story but the truth is the enquiry has all but ended because all leads were dead ends. SY aren't going to come out and say that though as they might be asked to justify their spend.
There's probably enough surplus in the kitty to keep a file open, other than that its anyone's guess.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on October 04, 2018, 02:31:59 PM
Madeleine McCann search to CARRY ON even after official cash gone SCOTLAND YARD appeared to be footing the bill for the Madeleine McCann search last night as official cash dried up.
If they are footing the bill then I think we can assume it has been shelved! Not closed- just shelved.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 04, 2018, 02:42:10 PM
The two cases are very different. Announcing that OG is moving to a reactive phase would result in a media storm of epic proportions, don't you think?
I agree they are both different. For a start the crime was in UK for young Stephen. Then there was institutionalised racism alledged (Which I beleive in the case with Stephen). The people (I loath to call them people) who did commit this heious, cowardly crime, were known to the police as being rascist themselves, and the CPS just couldn't make a case to stick. And how they taunted the public/and stephens parents with their vile videos and behaviour.
We don't have a name for the crime/s which have been and/ or, may still being commited against her- So as such there are no suspects. The SY have told us that the parents are not suspects in the abduction of their daughter- which is great because why would they abduct their own daughter? and since there is no evidence of forced entry and the removal of MBM then many police are stood standing scrathing their heads.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 04, 2018, 02:52:32 PM
Wow! That's some story but the truth is the enquiry has all but ended because all leads were dead ends. SY aren't going to come out and say that though as they might be asked to justify their spend.
There's probably enough surplus in the kitty to keep a file open, other than that its anyone's guess.
Hmm I just wonder IF the Portuguese can now shout back a huge "WE TOLD YOU SO"....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on October 04, 2018, 02:55:39 PM
So,Smithman must have been identified if information is no longer required.
I can't know for certain, but IMO, Smithman has not been identified. I would class Smithman as a dead end, as far as OG is concerned. It's pure speculation, but Smithman might have been the final line of enquiry.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on October 04, 2018, 03:04:52 PM
I can't know for certain, but IMO, Smithman has not been identified. I would class Smithman as a dead end, as far as OG is concerned. It's pure speculation, but Smithman might have been the final line of enquiry.
That would make sense.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on October 04, 2018, 03:09:56 PM
I can't know for certain, but IMO, Smithman has not been identified. I would class Smithman as a dead end, as far as OG is concerned. It's pure speculation, but Smithman might have been the final line of enquiry.
... and if this was the last line, and he was 'found' this would have been splattered all over the news as an abductor has been identified and eliminated from enquiries.
So... Smithman...Hmmm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on October 04, 2018, 03:13:44 PM
There was quite a lot of planning that went into the abduction of Madeleine McCann. Hardly likely to have been a paedophile.
Is the A word allowed Eleanor? You have said it several times this afternoon but I was under the impression it was not allowed. If I am wrong then I apologise.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 04, 2018, 04:17:05 PM
Is the A word allowed Eleanor? You have said it several times this afternoon but I was under the impression it was not allowed. If I am wrong then I apologise.
Well no fridge was found and the forensics didn't bear out body fluids sloshing about in the boot of the hire car either and the PJ and SY have been investigating Madeleine's abduction since 2013 ... the word "abduction" not allowed?? isn't that a breach of freedom of speech or freedom of expression?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on October 04, 2018, 04:21:41 PM
Is the A word allowed Eleanor? You have said it several times this afternoon but I was under the impression it was not allowed. If I am wrong then I apologise.
The word Abduction is allowed. But I probably should have said, In My Opinion. Thanks for reminding me. I shall pay more attention to that in future, in all Comments. Expect me to remind you all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 04, 2018, 04:25:16 PM
The word Abduction is allowed. But I probably should have said, In My Opinion. Thanks for reminding me. I shall pay more attention to that in future, in all Comments. Expect me to remind you all.
That is fine Eleanor. Thanks for making the rules clear. *&(+(+
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on October 04, 2018, 04:36:46 PM
Well no fridge was found and the forensics didn't bear out body fluids sloshing about in the boot of the hire car either and the PJ and SY have been investigating Madeleine's abduction since 2013 ... the word "abduction" not allowed?? isn't that a breach of freedom of speech or freedom of expression?
Therein is the possibility of why Grange is stalled imo of course.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on October 04, 2018, 05:01:05 PM
I assume you are making an assumption that possible adoptive families care exactly which child they get and the other persons mentioned earlier don't. I don't believe that to be correct.
I also don't believe that someone was given a pic of Madeleine and said "get her for me" which I think you are also implying.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on October 04, 2018, 06:54:32 PM
I assume you are making an assumption that possible adoptive families care exactly which child they get and the other persons mentioned earlier don't. I don't believe that to be correct.
I also don't believe that someone was given a pic of Madeleine and said "get her for me" which I think you are also implying.
Your assumptions concerning my Comment are correct.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on October 04, 2018, 07:13:13 PM
Can I ask you how you think this forced adoption will have worked Eleanor?
In my opinion that is an exceedingly silly question which flies in the face of reasonable debate. Any chance of getting back on topic ... discussion of LATEST NEWS. Thank you/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on October 04, 2018, 07:31:56 PM
As it is an international case the CPS will be involved throughout. My post to which you responded said: "Eventually it will be passed to the CPS as that is the way the system works. Otherwise OG would have had no objective whatever......except possibly "it all makes work for the working man to do". You seem to think differently or wanted to drag the conversation away from that particular issue.
Maybe this will help clarify:
CPS The CPS is a designated prosecuting authority under the Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003 (CICA). Every case the CPS deals with is allocated to a reviewing lawyer who is responsible for all aspects of the file, including the issue of letters of request (LOR) and extradition requests.
Early consultation with the CPS is required due to the timescales involved in producing the LOR, particularly in cases where arrest warrants are involved.
Some European countries may be very specific on the way information is requested. The Netherlands, for example, has strict privacy laws which subsequently mean that they require an LOR for almost any request for personal data. Investigators should provide the CPS with robust reasons why an LOR is needed. [/b]
That's clear enough I think. Should you have any queries, however, please hesitate to contact me and ponder whether your query would be more appropriately addressed to the CPS.
Oh ok then. Your post does not really explain what role the CPS has when a case is shelved with no arrests or suspects to speak of but thanks anyway.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on October 04, 2018, 07:50:24 PM
These three managed to 'spot' exactly the type of child they were looking for and crossed borders prepared for an abduction which is exactly what they did. If their premeditated plan had worked as it so easily could have without the speedy action of the authorities and I think a lot of luck, who knows what would have become of that little girl.
Snip Sébastien Branchu, 46, his wife Alexia, 59, and Emeline Oeillet, 27, followed the toddler and her mother around a supermarket and out into the street in preparation for the kidnapping.
Once they had an opportunity, they violently shoved the woman, snatched the child then bundled her into a car and fled, leaving the mother in the road.
They then changed the child’s hair, dressed her in separate clothes they had brought with them, and drove towards the Serbian border in March 2015. ============================================== French national Emeline Oeillet didn’t want her ex-partner to have rights to look after their daughter, and planned to use the kidnapped two-year-old as a stand-in during a paternity test.
The three defendants reportedly targeted the girl as she looked similar to Emeline’s child, and reasoned people would not know the difference when it came to DNA testing.
When the false result came back, it would ‘prove’ her ex-boyfriend was not the father.
In my opinion that is an exceedingly silly question which flies in the face of reasonable debate. Any chance of getting back on topic ... discussion of LATEST NEWS. Thank you/
Not silly at all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Montclair on October 05, 2018, 11:44:08 AM
These three managed to 'spot' exactly the type of child they were looking for and crossed borders prepared for an abduction which is exactly what they did. If their premeditated plan had worked as it so easily could have without the speedy action of the authorities and I think a lot of luck, who knows what would have become of that little girl.
Snip Sébastien Branchu, 46, his wife Alexia, 59, and Emeline Oeillet, 27, followed the toddler and her mother around a supermarket and out into the street in preparation for the kidnapping.
Once they had an opportunity, they violently shoved the woman, snatched the child then bundled her into a car and fled, leaving the mother in the road.
They then changed the child’s hair, dressed her in separate clothes they had brought with them, and drove towards the Serbian border in March 2015. ============================================== French national Emeline Oeillet didn’t want her ex-partner to have rights to look after their daughter, and planned to use the kidnapped two-year-old as a stand-in during a paternity test.
The three defendants reportedly targeted the girl as she looked similar to Emeline’s child, and reasoned people would not know the difference when it came to DNA testing.
When the false result came back, it would ‘prove’ her ex-boyfriend was not the father.
So allegedly.. gypsies that openly ask to buy children from dodgy fellas get desperate and break into a watched house to steal a child?
Why not just go on asking dodgy blokes if they can buy their children? Surely this is not 'latest news' either, it's very, very old news.
Hewlett was the only one who got friendly with the Gypsies on the camp site he stayed at. He said this to friends way before the police came to hunt him down. A man without money what was stopping him looking out for a child who resembled his own? He lied to the police too about the van he had when Madeleine went missing he said he had the blue one but he really had a white one, then all of a sudden he has money for a new van. All IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on October 05, 2018, 01:23:52 PM
Sorry is it off topic? I read the posts above about how children were targeted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 05, 2018, 01:40:55 PM
So allegedly.. gypsies that openly ask to buy children from dodgy fellas get desperate and break into a watched house to steal a child?
Why not just go on asking dodgy blokes if they can buy their children? Surely this is not 'latest news' either, it's very, very old news.
Sounds like something out of Rutland Weekend Television or a Cher song or a story me owd granny used to tell to stop me going out the end of the ginnel. Anyway we should be being PC it's "travelling people" now, not gipsies,gyppos, didikais, dids or tinks no more...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on October 05, 2018, 01:43:34 PM
Hewlett was the only one who got friendly with the Gypsies on the camp site he stayed at. He said this to friends way before the police came to hunt him down. A man without money what was stopping him looking out for a child who resembled his own? He lied to the police too about the van he had when Madeleine went missing he said he had the blue one but he really had a white one, then all of a sudden he has money for a new van. All IMO
All this stuff is 'alleged'. I can't find any direct source of Hewlett saying the stuff about gypsies. I do see a lot of stories where he is mentioned together with quotes from Clarence Mitchell.
IMO all this stuff about gypsies is xenophobic fairy stories with no evidence to back it up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on October 05, 2018, 01:45:49 PM
Sounds like something out of Rutland Weekend Television or a Cher song or a story me owd granny used to tell to stop me going out the end of the ginnel. Anyway we should be being PC it's "travelling people" now, not gipsies,gyppos, didikais, dids or tinks no more...
Ahh, memories. There was a ginnel near my grannies house too. I never saw any swarthy 'travelling people' out catching children though.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on October 05, 2018, 01:55:19 PM
Sounds like something out of Rutland Weekend Television or a Cher song or a story me owd granny used to tell to stop me going out the end of the ginnel. Anyway we should be being PC it's "travelling people" now, not gipsies,gyppos, didikais, dids or tinks no more...
Are you sure they want to be called 'travelling people'? I thought true Gypsies were proud to be called Gypsies. They were certainly called Gypsies on the tv programmes eg 'My big fat Gypsy wedding'.
I am not saying all Gypsies are child stealers, but I won't be ruling out Raymond Hewlett.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on October 05, 2018, 02:03:56 PM
Are you sure they want to be called 'travelling people'? I thought true Gypsies were proud to be called Gypsies. They were certainly called Gypsies on the tv programmes eg 'My big fat Gypsy wedding'.
I am not saying all Gypsies are child stealers, but I won't be ruling out Raymond Hewlett.
I wouldn't rule out Hewlett either but he has been ruled out first by the PJ and presumably by Scotland Yard. I think it's worth noting it was Clarence who said the McCann's investigators were investigating Hewitt, ie. private individuals. Scotland Yard have never said anything about him as far as I can see.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 05, 2018, 02:14:06 PM
What a story! Sounds like a plot from some telefilm on Fox Life!
They went to a lot of bother to steal a child who met with their specifications.
Now imagine the same set of circumstances with CCTV cameras taken out of the equation and the child bundled into the car with no witnesses around to see the abduction.
Just another mother with an impossible story and another missing child with nothing to connect her to the abductors? Something along the lines of what happened in Madeleine's case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on October 05, 2018, 02:18:17 PM
A child stalked and taken forcefully from parents outside in the street is nothing like a sleeping child taken from inside an apartment IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on October 05, 2018, 02:52:16 PM
Are you sure they want to be called 'travelling people'? I thought true Gypsies were proud to be called Gypsies. They were certainly called Gypsies on the tv programmes eg 'My big fat Gypsy wedding'.
I am not saying all Gypsies are child stealers, but I won't be ruling out Raymond Hewlett.
Romany Gypsies and Travellers are distinct unrelated genetic groups. Travellers are mostly Irish and it was them who were in the TV programmes in my opinion, not true gypsies.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 05, 2018, 03:24:31 PM
All this stuff is 'alleged'. I can't find any direct source of Hewlett saying the stuff about gypsies. I do see a lot of stories where he is mentioned together with quotes from Clarence Mitchell.
IMO all this stuff about gypsies is xenophobic fairy stories with no evidence to back it up.
One day someone will write a book comprising a compilation of Clarence Mitchell quotes along the lines of Alan Coren's Idi Amin Bulletins. I suppose there is one flaw in that idea like how many people have heard of Clarence Mitchell after his fifteen minutes of fame. "These people really are the big boys and can do things the police can not".
Punch a hole in the corner of the book push through a bit of string then hang it on a nail in the door of the little shack out back to provide entertainment for your visitors.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Alice Purjorick on October 05, 2018, 03:27:37 PM
They went to a lot of bother to steal a child who met with their specifications.
Now imagine the same set of circumstances with CCTV cameras taken out of the equation and the child bundled into the car with no witnesses around to see the abduction.
Just another mother with an impossible story and another missing child with nothing to connect her to the abductors? Something along the lines of what happened in Madeleine's case.
You can't say that with any certainty whatsoever tho it does show how guillible some are to believe an unsubstantiated tale of abduction as opposed to a faked abduction . I wonder why this is ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 05, 2018, 05:40:57 PM
A child stalked and taken forcefully from parents outside in the street is nothing like a sleeping child taken from inside an apartment IMO.
The intent is the same. the only thing different is the type of location and we know from a very recent case that strangers can and do abduct sleeping children from their beds without leaving a trace.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on October 05, 2018, 06:08:11 PM
The intent is the same. the only thing different is the type of location and we know from a very recent case that strangers can and do abduct sleeping children from their beds without leaving a trace.
Yes, I agree it's possible and no-one ever can say 100% that it doesn't happen.. but this is a very unusual case that doesn't seem to match any others in terms of possible motivation, the location she vanished from and the age of the child and the short time between the parents checks.
In the Isabel Celis case we have not been told what evidence they found exactly, the police did consider the screen removed from the window as an entry point and they did find footprints. However details have been kept back and it hasn't been confirmed what evidence collected related to an abductor or not, so for me I think the McCann case is extremely hard to compare to any other.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on October 05, 2018, 06:12:09 PM
Yes, I agree it's possible and no-one ever can say 100% that it doesn't happen.. but this is a very unusual case that doesn't seem to match any others in terms of possible motivation, the location she vanished from and the age of the child and the short time between the parents checks.
In the Isabel Celis case we have not been told what evidence they found exactly, the police did consider the screen removed from the window as an entry point and they did find footprints. However details have been kept back and it hasn't been confirmed what evidence collected related to an abductor or not, so for me I think the McCann case is extremely hard to compare to any other.
In the Isabel Celis case the father was thr prime suspect for a long time so whatever evidence they claimed to have found couldn’t have been very compelling. I think the comparisons between the two cases are extremely valid. ETA: just look at all the comments from the online sleuths pointing the finger at her dad here: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3tpf5l/6_year_old_isabel_celis_unresolved_disappearance/#thing_t1_cx84ugl
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on October 05, 2018, 06:35:54 PM
In the Isabel Celis case the father was thr prime suspect for a long time so whatever evidence they claimed to have found couldn’t have been very compelling. I think the comparisons between the two cases are extremely valid. ETA: just look at all the comments from the online sleuths pointing the finger at her dad here: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/3tpf5l/6_year_old_isabel_celis_unresolved_disappearance/#thing_t1_cx84ugl
I'm not comparing public suspicion. I was comparing evidence that the police collected. They found quite a bit of evidence and we have not been told which pieces ( if any) relate to an abductor. A blanket was found, sandals, footprints outside the house and police DID believe the window screen on the floor to be evidence of entry - unlike the McCann case with just them insisting the window was a point of entry.
I would wait until the Celis case is over completely before deciding it is so similar.
I'm not comparing public suspicion. I was comparing evidence that the police collected. They found quite a bit of evidence and we have not been told which pieces ( if any) relate to an abductor. A blanket was found, sandals, footprints outside the house and police DID believe the window screen on the floor to be evidence of entry - unlike the McCann case with just them insisting the window was a point of entry.
I would wait until the Celis case is over completely before deciding it is so similar.
Plenty of evidence has been collected from witnesses in the McCann case, as yet we don’t know which pertains to the perpetrator (s), there is also a possible point of entry, the similarities are myriad.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Gertrude on October 05, 2018, 07:03:19 PM
Plenty of evidence has been collected from witnesses in the McCann case, as yet we don’t know which pertains to the perpetrator (s), there is also a possible point of entry, the similarities are myriad.
Yes plenty of evidence in an investigation that was shelved because none of it proved an abductor had been there. I think you're being disingenuous if you mean the entry point was the window. No police in the McCann case have agreed it was an entry point. Even Clarence Mitchell eventually confirmed there was no forced entry. The Celis evidence has not been assessed and tested publicly yet.
Quote
Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.
Yes plenty of evidence in an investigation that was shelved because none of it proved an abductor had been there. I think you're being disingenuous if you mean the entry point was the window. No police in the McCann case have agreed it was an entry point. Even Clarence Mitchell eventually confirmed there was no forced entry. The Celis evidence has not been assessed and tested publicly yet.
I am not being disingenuous. I said there was a POSSIBLE point of entry which there is, we don’t know what the current police have agreed re: the open window and how could anyone rule it out 100% anyway? If you refuse to accept that there are numerous parallels between the two cases then that is up to you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on October 05, 2018, 10:58:01 PM
'Maddie's still in Portugal': Detective who worked on Madeleine McCann case believes she could be alive with no idea of world-wide hunt to find her - as police ask for more cash for search
Former detective Dave Edgar believes missing Madeleine McCann is still alive Speaking last year Mr Edgar claimed the disappearance was 'intricately planned' Mr Edgar said it was 'unlikely' that Madeleine was smuggled out of the country
A former detective has revealed he remains 'hopeful' that Madeleine McCann will be found alive in Portugal.
Former Detective Inspector Dave Edgar was hired by Kate and Gerry McCann to look into their daughter's disappearance and worked on the case for three years before it was taken over by the Met Police in 2011.
Speaking out today, Mr Edgar believes the case is 'solvable' and maintains there are 'people out there who know what happened'.
Last year Mr Edgar claimed the kidnapper was being protected and said the disappearance was 'intricately planned by a gang of paedophiles'.
He once said he believed Madeleine was being held in an underground cell or dungeon, like the victims of Josef Fritzl.
Mr Edgar told The Sun today there is still the chance of a breakthrough, adding: '[Madeleine] could literally be anywhere in the world but my hunch is that she is in Portugal.
The chance that she may have been smuggled out of the country without being detected is highly unlikely. There is someone in Portugal with an open knowledge of where she is and what happened.'
Last week, the Home Office confirmed it was considering an application from Scotland Yard for more funding to continue the hunt for the youngster.
In a blog published on September 26, it said: 'We have received and are considering a request from the Metropolitan Police Service to extend funding for Operation Grange until the end of March 2019.
'The Home Office maintains an ongoing dialogue with the MPS regarding funding for Operation Grange.'
Scotland Yard launched Operation Grange in 2013 after a Portuguese inquiry failed to make any headway.
UK detectives were granted an extra £150,000 in March to continue the probe, to cover until the end of September.
This is all merely supposition and opinion by Dave Edgar. The real difficulty is an absence of credible evidence one way or another. She might well have been carried off but what happened to her then is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on October 13, 2018, 02:58:28 AM
Please confine discussion of a topic which already has a thread in the members' area to that place. Thank you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 13, 2018, 05:22:23 PM
Just enough money I think to keep whatever it is they are investigating ticking over ... but in terms that it means that a live investigation still needs it to keep going is in my opinion a confirmation of the determination behind the investigation which still obviously has some mileage.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on November 13, 2018, 07:50:25 PM
I'm the first to admit my maths are bad, but I divided £150,000 by six months?
Ha ha I see my mistake now. Approx wages are in the range of £9,500 per month, so they have plenty to spend on other things.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 18, 2018, 02:12:29 PM
Fresh hope for Kate and Gerry McCann As They meet with Yard detective to discuss vital two new leads in the search for daughter Madeleine http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg503406#msg503406
Is there anyone who seriously thinks Scotland Yard should throw in the towel at this stage?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 18, 2018, 02:19:09 PM
So grange have had to justify the request for extra funds ...still have laeds to investigate and beleive tehy will find out what happened to Maddie...excelellent
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on November 18, 2018, 03:46:02 PM
Fresh hope for Kate and Gerry McCann As They meet with Yard detective to discuss vital two new leads in the search for daughter Madeleine http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg503406#msg503406
Is there anyone who seriously thinks Scotland Yard should throw in the towel at this stage?
If they don’t know if it is one or two leads then the resounding answer has to be yes @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 18, 2018, 04:28:05 PM
If they don’t know if it is one or two leads then the resounding answer has to be yes @)(++(*
Oh, I think Scotland Yard know precisely what they are about ... and as Misty has posted, there appears to be a bit of interest being shown by someone anxiously trying to find out exactly what that might be.
The mind boggles.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 18, 2018, 04:41:02 PM
If they don’t know if it is one or two leads then the resounding answer has to be yes @)(++(*
I must admit to bemusement that it is being spun that Scotland Yard might be incapable of following more than one lead at a time or that one lead might point to another. They would be unable to justify continuation of funding to the Home Office without having a sustainable case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on November 18, 2018, 04:46:16 PM
It's pretty obvious that something is going on.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on November 18, 2018, 06:20:01 PM
From Brietta's link
Maddie's parents, however, had been told weeks ago by police that they expected the grant to be made.
So the McCanns were not on tenterhooks waiting to hear about funding. They had been told weeks ago. Therefore, I believe I was right about the timing of the release of the news regarding funding being deliberately released with massive brexit news so as to get less coverage. Next question is why
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 18, 2018, 06:28:39 PM
Maddie's parents, however, had been told weeks ago by police that they expected the grant to be made.
So the McCanns were not on tenterhooks waiting to hear about funding. They had been told weeks ago. Therefore, I believe I was right about the timing of the release of the news regarding funding being deliberately released with massive brexit news so as to get less coverage. Next question is why
It says they expected the grant to be made.... Nothing certain
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on November 18, 2018, 06:29:00 PM
I must admit to bemusement that it is being spun that Scotland Yard might be incapable of following more than one lead at a time or that one lead might point to another. They would be unable to justify continuation of funding to the Home Office without having a sustainable case.
Indeed Brietta, indeed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 18, 2018, 10:17:59 PM
On other news - according to this report, Portugal is the 4th safest country in the world - amazing considering how useless the PJ are you'd think it would be a crime paradise @)(++(*
The think tank Institute for Economics and Peace this published the Global Peace Index 2018, which ranks major nations around the world by how safe they are.
The report ranked 163 countries based on how peaceful they are. The ranking is determined by 23 factors, which include murder rate, political terror, and deaths from internal conflict.
On other news - according to this report, Portugal is the 4th safest country in the world - amazing considering how useless the PJ are you'd think it would be a crime paradise @)(++(*
The think tank Institute for Economics and Peace this published the Global Peace Index 2018, which ranks major nations around the world by how safe they are.
The report ranked 163 countries based on how peaceful they are. The ranking is determined by 23 factors, which include murder rate, political terror, and deaths from internal conflict.
Yep,idle hands are the devil's workshop,this rubbish will be repeated next year after the next batch of funding nonsense will raise its head.imo and all that jazz.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 19, 2018, 07:06:29 AM
Meanwhile Portugal languishes at 29 in the chart of least corrupt countries, to the UK’s 10th position.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 19, 2018, 10:25:12 AM
Meanwhile Portugal languishes at 29 in the chart of least corrupt countries, to the UK’s 10th position.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
Wow worse than the UK at something!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on November 19, 2018, 01:11:16 PM
Fresh hope for Kate and Gerry McCann As They meet with Yard detective to discuss vital two new leads in the search for daughter Madeleine http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg503406#msg503406
Is there anyone who seriously thinks Scotland Yard should throw in the towel at this stage?
Rereading this there’s something that is strange about this story.
In May the McCanns, so we are told, were asked by SY not to do any interviews around the 11th anniversay as it may jeopardise ongoing investigations. So who is talking to the newspapers now ? Surely SY, after silencing the parents would not release details, however obscure, of the investigation, the HO likewise but that only leaves the parents, and we know they were asked by SY not to divulge investigation details to the public.
Questions, questions !!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 19, 2018, 02:04:10 PM
Rereading this there’s something that is strange about this story.
In May the McCanns, so we are told, were asked by SY not to do any interviews around the 11th anniversay as it may jeopardise ongoing investigations. So who is talking to the newspapers now ? Surely SY, after silencing the parents would not release details, however obscure, of the investigation, the HO likewise but that only leaves the parents, and we know they were asked by SY not to divulge investigation details to the public.
Questions, questions !!
Snip A Whitehall source told the Daily Mail: “Metropolitan Police officers had a sit-down meeting with Madeleine's parents to tell them exactly where they were with their inquiries.
“They informed them they had two specific and active leads that still needed to be chased and that although the investigation was taking longer than they initially thought officers said they were confident and hopeful they could get a result.”
A senior Government source added: “Police seeking special grant funding have needed to justify exactly what the money would be spent on, who they are chasing and why.
“They have had to outline their intended work in full detail and careful consideration has been given but we cannot divulge any aspects of that while there is an ongoing operation.” https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/new-madeleine-mccann-hope-police-15431891
Seems normal for government civil servants not to be named in communications with the press ... if you have a complaint about that why not contact the departments concerned?
Snip A Home Office spokesman said: “We have confirmed that Special Grant funding of £150,000 will be provided to the Metropolitan Police Service for the six-month period to 31 March 2019.” http://theportugalnews.com/news/madeleine-uk-police-handed-more-cash/47510
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on November 19, 2018, 02:20:28 PM
Snip A Whitehall source told the Daily Mail: “Metropolitan Police officers had a sit-down meeting with Madeleine's parents to tell them exactly where they were with their inquiries.
“They informed them they had two specific and active leads that still needed to be chased and that although the investigation was taking longer than they initially thought officers said they were confident and hopeful they could get a result.”
A senior Government source added: “Police seeking special grant funding have needed to justify exactly what the money would be spent on, who they are chasing and why.
“They have had to outline their intended work in full detail and careful consideration has been given but we cannot divulge any aspects of that while there is an ongoing operation.” https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/new-madeleine-mccann-hope-police-15431891
Seems normal for government civil servants not to be named in communications with the press ... if you have a complaint about that why not contact the departments concerned?
Snip A Home Office spokesman said: “We have confirmed that Special Grant funding of £150,000 will be provided to the Metropolitan Police Service for the six-month period to 31 March 2019.” http://theportugalnews.com/news/madeleine-uk-police-handed-more-cash/47510
It seems normal ? How so ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 19, 2018, 04:54:04 PM
Rereading this there’s something that is strange about this story.
In May the McCanns, so we are told, were asked by SY not to do any interviews around the 11th anniversay as it may jeopardise ongoing investigations. So who is talking to the newspapers now ? Surely SY, after silencing the parents would not release details, however obscure, of the investigation, the HO likewise but that only leaves the parents, and we know they were asked by SY not to divulge investigation details to the public.
Questions, questions !!
The article says who divulged the information does it not?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on November 19, 2018, 04:57:15 PM
The article says who divulged the information does it not?
It doesn't appear to have been The McCanns or their Sources.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on November 19, 2018, 04:57:45 PM
It looks like we are back to the woman in purple being one of the leads (well according to Tracy Kandohla).
Madeleine McCann BREAKTHROUGH: New woman in purple lead over Maddie disappearance SCOTLAND Yard detectives working on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are pursuing two leads. By TRACEY KANDOHLA, EXCLUSIVE
The Operation Grange team had been thought to be focusing on just one. But it has now emerged they have two "specific and active" lines of inquiry. And the Home Office last week announced it would give a further £150,000 to the Yard, which covers the Grange officers' wages and expenses.
Detectives told Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry about the two leads in a lengthy meeting, thought to have taken place at the couple's home in Rothley, Leicestershire, last week.
Kate and Gerry, both 50, are said to be "greatly encouraged" that police could finally be closing in on Madeleine's kidnapper after nearly 12 years and are hopeful "we can get a result".
Madeleine disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, on May 3, 2007. A senior Whitehall source said: "Metropolitan Police officers had a sit-down meeting with Madeleine's parents.
Madeleine "They informed them they had two specific and active leads that still needed to be chased and officers were confident and hopeful they could get a result."
The clues have not been made public for fear that suspects will go to ground.
Previously the Yard has confirmed detectives were working on a theory that Madeleine was taken in a burglary that went wrong.
Officers have also been keen to identify a woman in purple seen hanging around the holiday flat around the time the three-year-old went missing.
The Home Office has so far spent £11.75million on the investigation.
The Government source added: "Police seeking special grant funding have needed to justify exactly what the money would be spent on, who they are chasing and why. They have had to outline their intended work in full detail and careful consideration has been given but we cannot divulge any aspects of that while there is an ongoing operation."
The McCann's spokesman Clarence Mitchell said the couple were "incredibly grateful" for the extra Home Office funding amid police cutbacks.
He said: "They are greatly encouraged that the Met Police still believe there is work left to be done in the search for their daughter. It gives them renewed hope that one day they may finally find out what happened to Madeleine."
The cash will fund Grange until the end of March next year.
The Yard applied for more cash in September but the Home Office only confirmed last Tuesday that it had been approved. Madeleine's parents, however, knew weeks ago.
The couple, who also have 13-year-old twins Sean and Amelie, cling on to the hope Madeleine is still alive. She would now be 15 years old.
The British inquiry, launched in May 2011 after a bungled Portuguese investigation, is spearheaded by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall.
A force spokeswoman said: "We still have important work to do and focused lines of investigation to be pursued. The inquiry has not reached a conclusion and we're continuing with focus and determination."
The Find Maddie Campaign website, run by a family friend and endorsed by Kate and Gerry, has updated its cover photo.
The word "Hope" written in yellow to symbolise the Portuguese colour of strength and solidarity against a vibrant background, is accompanied by a brief note to supporters: "We just want to thank you continuing to be by our side and keeping Madeleine in your heart."
Tracy also now says that the McCanns knew it had been approved weeks ago, not that they only had an indication that funding would be agreed. Perhaps she could make her mind up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on November 19, 2018, 05:40:55 PM
Rereading this there’s something that is strange about this story.
In May the McCanns, so we are told, were asked by SY not to do any interviews around the 11th anniversay as it may jeopardise ongoing investigations. So who is talking to the newspapers now ? Surely SY, after silencing the parents would not release details, however obscure, of the investigation, the HO likewise but that only leaves the parents, and we know they were asked by SY not to divulge investigation details to the public.
Questions, questions !!
Does it trouble you, the idea that the McCanns are being briefed by the Met and keeping you out of the loop? Or do you believe this story is a complete invention, made up by Team McCann themselves?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 19, 2018, 05:56:04 PM
For those not from the UK "Whitehall", a metonym for the United Kingdom's central government administration
metonym noun a word, name, or expression used as a substitute for something else with which it is closely associated. For example, Washington is a metonym for the US government.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on November 19, 2018, 06:02:28 PM
Does it trouble you, the idea that the McCanns are being briefed by the Met and keeping you out of the loop? Or do you believe this story is a complete invention, made up by Team McCann themselves?
I think the meeting took place, it’s the spin I don’t believe.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 19, 2018, 06:14:49 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on January 30, 2019, 10:19:39 PM
THE parents of missing Madeleine McCann have shared their "great hope" that she will be still found as they thanked people for their continued support.
As the 12th anniversary of their daughter's disappearance approaches, a Facebook page endorsed by Kate and Gerry McCann revealed a heartfelt message.
THE parents of missing Madeleine McCann have shared their "great hope" that she will be still found as they thanked people for their continued support.
As the 12th anniversary of their daughter's disappearance approaches, a Facebook page endorsed by Kate and Gerry McCann revealed a heartfelt message.
Recycling old images. Don’t they even have the interest to find a new one ?
There was no news so she had to invent something and settled on the twin's upcoming birthdays. All the rest is padding. It's almost as if the Sun are obliged to mention Madeleine McCann at regular intervals whether there's anything to say or not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 31, 2019, 11:10:44 AM
I don’t think so. If there really is ‘hope’ why aren’t the parents publicising that fact at every opportunity ? The official site has been static for many a year and occasionally the webmaster throws supporters a bone....is it really too much to ask that that bone is new ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on January 31, 2019, 11:25:33 AM
I simply do not understand the need for nastiness.
I will be Deleting any further Comments in this vein.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on January 31, 2019, 12:12:20 PM
I don’t think so. If there really is ‘hope’ why aren’t the parents publicising that fact at every opportunity ? The official site has been static for many a year and occasionally the webmaster throws supporters a bone....is it really too much to ask that that bone is new ?
Not only that but actively seeking out information in the country she went missing from. But then since the Portuguese Supreme Court has ordained that they haven't been cleared, the thought of spending any time in Portugal would most likely generate concerns that they could be taken in for further questioning and so it begins all over again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 31, 2019, 12:22:14 PM
I simply do not understand the need for nastiness.
I will be Deleting any further Comments in this vein.
It’s not nasty for to expect the parents of a missing child to publicise her disappearance.....until she is found. Surely that’s what supporters want too ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on January 31, 2019, 12:40:57 PM
It’s not nasty for to expect the parents of a missing child to publicise her disappearance.....until she is found. Surely that’s what supporters want too ?
It is the way in which it is done that I object to.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 31, 2019, 12:42:00 PM
It’s not nasty for to expect the parents of a missing child to publicise her disappearance.....until she is found. Surely that’s what supporters want too ?
Why just the McCann's, go and write to the parents of all the other missing children and ask why they aren't publicising that their child is missing until their child is found.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on January 31, 2019, 12:43:44 PM
Not only that but actively seeking out information in the country she went missing from. But then since the Portuguese Supreme Court has ordained that they haven't been cleared, the thought of spending any time in Portugal would most likely generate concerns that they could be taken in for further questioning and so it begins all over again.
I doubt the McCann's will do that as the Portuguese have a live investigation going on, along with OG.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 31, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Why just the McCann's, go and write to the parents of all the other missing children and ask why they aren't publicising that their child is missing until their child is found.
Because the McCanns have the money, spokesman and connections that other missing children’s families don’t.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on January 31, 2019, 04:35:45 PM
There was no news so she had to invent something and settled on the twin's upcoming birthdays. All the rest is padding. It's almost as if the Sun are obliged to mention Madeleine McCann at regular intervals whether there's anything to say or not.
I am uncomfortable with her mentioning the twins birthday. That has nothing at all to do with Madeleine's disappearance and they deserve privacy IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 31, 2019, 04:54:41 PM
I am uncomfortable with her mentioning the twins birthday. That has nothing at all to do with Madeleine's disappearance and they deserve privacy IMO.
It has everything to do with the birthday of the Twins. The Twins know that their sister is missing. You can't alter that. Nothing will pretend otherwise. So why even try?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 31, 2019, 05:12:28 PM
Don't you think that this might have had something to do with The Internet, and the large amount of money that was so quickly donated?
Small amounts were donated at first thenalmost instantly, the family created a company and went all out to sell the 'abduction' theory and offered the donating public that they would use this money to search for their daughter... well...
They declared leaving no stone unturned... well leaving the walk and wandered stone well in it's place.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on January 31, 2019, 05:15:20 PM
It has everything to do with the birthday of the Twins. The Twins know that their sister is missing. You can't alter that. Nothing will pretend otherwise. So why even try?
Do the Uk public really need to know it is the twins birthday? it is really headline news in the midst of everything that is going on? I mean does anyone really care about their birthday? just asking
it is right up there with Posh spice wears new lipstick colour... ppft
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 31, 2019, 05:44:26 PM
It’s not nasty for to expect the parents of a missing child to publicise her disappearance.....until she is found. Surely that’s what supporters want too ?
There are no other parents on the planet that have put as much effort into publicizing their missing child but it’s still not enough for you. What a surprise.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 31, 2019, 05:47:31 PM
There are no other parents on the planet that have put as much effort into publicizing their missing child but it’s still not enough for you. What a surprise.
Even bigger surprise -no other parent on the planet started up a company using their daughters disappearance as a selling point. It is an absolute tradgedy that A child not long out of nappies when she disappeared, has become click bait not for the right reasons.
IMO young Maddie- sold to the Sun newspapers =her name making a fortune for advertisers and 7th rate 'journos'
disgusting and shameful IMO.
now it's the twins turn...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 31, 2019, 06:44:49 PM
Even bigger surprise -no other parent on the planet started up a company using their daughters disappearance as a selling point. It is an absolute tradgedy that A child not long out of nappies when she disappeared, has become click bait not for the right reasons.
IMO young Maddie- sold to the Sun newspapers =her name making a fortune for advertisers and 7th rate 'journos'
disgusting and shameful IMO.
now it's the twins turn...
So do you think the parent are wrong to publicise their child’s disappearance or do you agree with Faithlilly that they aren’t doing enough? What would you do if your child went missing?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on January 31, 2019, 07:54:46 PM
It has everything to do with the birthday of the Twins. The Twins know that their sister is missing. You can't alter that. Nothing will pretend otherwise. So why even try?
I was under the impression that the media were not discussing the twins for their own protection. So again what does the twins birthday have to do with Madeleine's disappearance. Their birthday should mean nothing to the general mass of the population and the twins lives should be kept secure and private. Days like this should not be publicised IMO.
It appears to me though that you think they are fair game for the media unfortunately.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on January 31, 2019, 11:28:28 PM
I was under the impression that the media were not discussing the twins for their own protection. So again what does the twins birthday have to do with Madeleine's disappearance. Their birthday should mean nothing to the general mass of the population and the twins lives should be kept secure and private. Days like this should not be publicised IMO.
It appears to me though that you think they are fair game for the media unfortunately.
What’s the big deal? The twins have a birthday, as do we all, how is mentioning their birthday an invasion of privacy exactly?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Sunny on January 31, 2019, 11:31:54 PM
I'll remember these posts when someone mentions the twins elsewhere and supporters get up in arms about it as has happened before.
Unless it’s me getting up in arms about the twins being mentioned you have no right to use my post as ammunition against anyone else. Mentioning the twins’ birthday is hardly an invasion of privacy imo, publishing details without their permission of where and how they were going to be spending their birthday would be IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 01, 2019, 12:41:18 AM
Unless it’s me getting up in arms about the twins being mentioned you have no right to use my post as ammunition against anyone else. Mentioning the twins’ birthday is hardly an invasion of privacy imo, publishing details without their permission of where and how they were going to be spending their birthday would be IMO.
I think posting their photograph and map directions to their whereabouts on Twitter while they were eating a meal in a restaurant ... without their permission or knowledge https://news.sky.com/story/mccanns-still-trolled-online-10-years-after-madeleine-disappeared-10861082 ... would probably count as an invasion of privacy. Not to mention being potentially dangerous.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 01, 2019, 01:32:36 PM
So do you think the parent are wrong to publicise their child’s disappearance or do you agree with Faithlilly that they aren’t doing enough? What would you do if your child went missing?
My opinion is the same as Faiths in the way I read it. You may have read it differently.
They do not need to publicise in the newspapers or the TV about MBM being missing we all know already! the whole world knows- why that should be the case is anyones guess. Good marketing and PR for the company I would suggest. They have funds and a web site; why not use that media to communicate with the faithful to the cause.
"What would you do if your child went missing?"
Nothing that the McCanns did for sure!
1. call the police right away- no messing about 2 not touch anything!!!!!! 3. leave it to the police to control the investigation 4. not be the least bit bothered if they suspected me 5 If I suspected them of being drugged I would demand they be taken to hospital to be checked.
Missing? 'I thought she was 'abducted' according to the family'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 01, 2019, 01:49:33 PM
I think posting their photograph and map directions to their whereabouts on Twitter while they were eating a meal in a restaurant ... without their permission or knowledge https://news.sky.com/story/mccanns-still-trolled-online-10-years-after-madeleine-disappeared-10861082 ... would probably count as an invasion of privacy. Not to mention being potentially dangerous.
As would posting their image here, as one supporter did, simply to win an argument.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on February 01, 2019, 02:21:19 PM
My opinion is the same as Faiths in the way I read it. You may have read it differently.
They do not need to publicise in the newspapers or the TV about MBM being missing we all know already! the whole world knows- why that should be the case is anyones guess. Good marketing and PR for the company I would suggest. They have funds and a web site; why not use that media to communicate with the faithful to the cause.
"What would you do if your child went missing?"
Nothing that the McCanns did for sure!
1. call the police right away- no messing about 2 not touch anything!!!!!! 3. leave it to the police to control the investigation 4. not be the least bit bothered if they suspected me 5 If I suspected them of being drugged I would demand they be taken to hospital to be checked.
Missing? 'I thought she was 'abducted' according to the family'
You have posted in a scornful manner that Kate knew Madeleine had been abducted [by a paedophile you keep adding] as soon as she found her missing, yet here you are with a list of five things you would do if your child went missing and all of them point to it being a crime. So which is it with the McCann's should they have treated 5a as a crime scene [as you do] or think first of all that she may have wandered out? IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 01, 2019, 02:33:58 PM
My opinion is the same as Faiths in the way I read it. You may have read it differently.
They do not need to publicise in the newspapers or the TV about MBM being missing we all know already! the whole world knows- why that should be the case is anyones guess. Good marketing and PR for the company I would suggest. They have funds and a web site; why not use that media to communicate with the faithful to the cause.
"What would you do if your child went missing?"
Nothing that the McCanns did for sure!
1. call the police right away- no messing about 2 not touch anything!!!!!! 3. leave it to the police to control the investigation 4. not be the least bit bothered if they suspected me 5 If I suspected them of being drugged I would demand they be taken to hospital to be checked.
Missing? 'I thought she was 'abducted' according to the family'
So the second you found your child missing you would assume the worst and not just that she had woke and wandered and would be in the near vicinity? Interesting....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 02, 2019, 10:18:13 AM
Kate wrote a book mentioning the conception, pregnancy and birth of the twins. It is hardly a full blown secret.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 02, 2019, 07:18:35 PM
Small amounts were donated at first thenalmost instantly, the family created a company and went all out to sell the 'abduction' theory and offered the donating public that they would use this money to search for their daughter... well...
They declared leaving no stone unturned... well leaving the walk and wandered stone well in it's place.
What searching have Maddie's parents done for her in the last 12 years? Anyone??
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 02, 2019, 07:19:46 PM
There are no other parents on the planet that have put as much effort into publicizing their missing child but it’s still not enough for you. What a surprise.
Really? Publicising??
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 02, 2019, 07:22:13 PM
So do you think the parent are wrong to publicise their child’s disappearance or do you agree with Faithlilly that they aren’t doing enough? What would you do if your child went missing?
That question is best answered by reference to Ben Needham and the efforts his parents have put into their search for him. Puts the McCanns to shame by any standard imo.
A good starting point would be Praia da Luz.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 02, 2019, 07:40:16 PM
That question is best answered by reference to Ben Needham and the efforts his parents have put into their search for him. Puts the McCanns to shame by any standard imo.
A good starting point would be Praia da Luz.
I think Kerry Needham mostly searched and publicised Ben's disappearance in Greece. As that's where he disappeated that made sense. The McCanns didn't concentrate on Praia da Luz in the same way, they seemed to aim their attention elsewhere almost immediately.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 02, 2019, 07:49:22 PM
I think Kerry Needham mostly searched and publicised Ben's disappearance in Greece. As that's where he disappeated that made sense. The McCanns didn't concentrate on Praia da Luz in the same way, they seemed to aim their attention elsewhere almost immediately.
And everybody is a master at this, in hindsight when it is not your child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 02, 2019, 09:32:31 PM
As is usual for me, it all gets a bit on top of me from time to time. And the mindless unkindness leaves me briefly devastated.
For the rest of the time I try to see this all as a right to free speech. Although this is not a right that I personally want, or need.
Look to yourselves and never find yourself wanting. Don't speak ill of other people because this has a nasty habit of turning itself back on those who do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 02, 2019, 10:48:29 PM
I think Kerry Needham mostly searched and publicised Ben's disappearance in Greece. As that's where he disappeated that made sense. The McCanns didn't concentrate on Praia da Luz in the same way, they seemed to aim their attention elsewhere almost immediately.
I always thought it appalling that neither parent could be bothered to go out and search with the community but then went on to criticise the lack of searching.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 02, 2019, 11:15:26 PM
I always thought it appalling that neither parent could be bothered to go out and search with the community but then went on to criticise the lack of searching.
Dear Angelo,
I have always thought that you are a kind person, so I really don't get your continued demands for Searching when you full well know that this wasn't possible.
However, if you could tell us all how you think The McCanns could and should have done this then I at least will be better informed.
You tell us all that The McCanns should have done this, but you never tell us how. And I for one am a bit pissed off with this.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 02, 2019, 11:18:41 PM
I always thought it appalling that neither parent could be bothered to go out and search with the community but then went on to criticise the lack of searching.
Why did the necessity and the responsibility of having to raise funds to look for British children missing abroad fall on the children's families who did not speak the language of the country where the children disappeared?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 02, 2019, 11:48:10 PM
Why did the necessity and the responsibility of having to raise funds to look for British children missing abroad fall on the children's families who did not speak the language of the country where the children disappeared?
This has long gone by now. People have forgotten the language problem, mainly because they don't want to know. And raising Funds is here or there. It doesn't matter from where they come. The fact that The Files are a total cock up is now irrelevant.
I really don't want to be totally boring, although I can't say I care if I am. Beyond finding Madeleine it is now over.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2019, 06:58:50 AM
Did the McCanns concentrate on appealing in the Portuguese media or in the UK media?
I seem to recall they put up big posters in PdL and the surrounding area which garnered huge scorn not just from the locals but from a member of this forum who thought that was quite an idiotic thing to do. What do you think?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 03, 2019, 09:35:44 AM
I seem to recall they put up big posters in PdL and the surrounding area which garnered huge scorn not just from the locals but from a member of this forum who thought that was quite an idiotic thing to do. What do you think?
Did they do that immediately? Did they appeal immediately and regularly in the Portuguese media?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 03, 2019, 09:44:46 AM
Its a secret but yet the sun know's,and some believe the media to be perfectly acceptable as verifiable cites. What was it Rowley said:"There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense". Its in that category imo.
Quote
MADDIE POLICE PROBE Three Madeleine McCann cops secretly investigated for alleged misconduct Officers who worked on the investigation into Madeleine’s 2007 disappearance were accused of 'neglect or failure in their duty' whilst working on the £12million probe
"Each officer was accused of “neglect or failure in their duty” while working on the Met Police’s £12million investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance. But two allegations were not upheld and one was later withdrawn after Scotland Yard found there was no case to answer. It is not clear if the complaints were made by members of the public or Madeleine’s family. Sources even hinted that internet trolls could be responsible. One said: “Because the precise details of the allegations aren’t made public, it’s entirely possible good officers have been subjected to a complaints process even though there may be little merit in the allegations against them.”
Good old sauce,always good for a laugh,still won't be long before the next load of funding nonsense.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2019, 09:46:51 AM
THREE Madeleine McCann probe cops have been secretly investigated for alleged misconduct.
They were all cleared but the detail of the claims has been kept under wraps.
The investigation into Maddie's disappearance has cost the Metropolitan Police nearly £12million
Each officer was accused of “neglect or failure in their duty” while working on the Met Police’s £12million investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
But two allegations were not upheld and one was later withdrawn after Scotland Yard found there was no case to answer.
It is not clear if the complaints were made by members of the public or Madeleine’s family.
Sources even hinted that internet trolls could be responsible.
One said: “Because the precise details of the allegations aren’t made public, it’s entirely possible good officers have been subjected to a complaints process even though there may be little merit in the allegations against them.”
Details of the cases were disclosed under Freedom of Information laws.
Fresh hope for Maddie McCann’s parents as they reveal Jayme Closs case has boosted confidence they’ll find missing daughter
Madeleine was three when she vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal in 2007.
A probe by Portuguese police ended in 2008.
The Met’s Operation Grange probe was launched in 2011.
All three officers who were accused of misconduct during the search for Maddie have been cleared of the allegations
All three officers who were accused of misconduct during the search for Maddie have been cleared of the allegations Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter went missing whilst on a family holiday to Portugal in 2007
Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter went missing whilst on a family holiday to Portugal in 2007
Madeleine McCann's father Gerry McCann describes 'disbelief, panic and terror' at moment he realised daughter was missing in rare interview
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2019, 09:47:28 AM
Its a secret but yet the sun know's,and some believe the media to be perfectly acceptable as verifiable cites. What was it Rowley said:"There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense". Its in that category imo.
Its a secret but yet the sun know's,and some believe the media to be perfectly acceptable as verifiable cites. What was it Rowley said:"There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense". Its in that category imo.
"Each officer was accused of “neglect or failure in their duty” while working on the Met Police’s £12million investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance. But two allegations were not upheld and one was later withdrawn after Scotland Yard found there was no case to answer. It is not clear if the complaints were made by members of the public or Madeleine’s family. Sources even hinted that internet trolls could be responsible. One said: “Because the precise details of the allegations aren’t made public, it’s entirely possible good officers have been subjected to a complaints process even though there may be little merit in the allegations against them.”
Good old sauce,always good for a laugh,still won't be long before the next load of funding nonsense.
Interesting article on so many levels.
What were the allegations?
Who knew enough about the investigation to lodge them ? There certainly had to be some merit to the claims for an investigation to be launched and a member of the public or trolls would not have had access to that kind of information I would have thought.
The McCann family ? If they are being kept in the loop as we are told then they certainly would have the means but what would be the motive ? What would the gain ?
Who lodged the freedom request ? Who told the lodger that an investigation had taken place.
So many questions but the main one as always with this case is...who benefits ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 03, 2019, 11:01:22 AM
Did they do that immediately? Did they appeal immediately and regularly in the Portuguese media?
Oh, it’s Portugal now, not the immediate locale as you were talking about previously? I see, goal post shifting. You tell me what they should have done then vis-a-vis the Portuguese media then. When they made public appeals in front of the world’s media were the Portuguese not invited?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 03, 2019, 11:02:54 AM
THREE Madeleine McCann probe cops have been secretly investigated for alleged misconduct.
They were all cleared but the detail of the claims has been kept under wraps.
The investigation into Maddie's disappearance has cost the Metropolitan Police nearly £12million
Each officer was accused of “neglect or failure in their duty” while working on the Met Police’s £12million investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
But two allegations were not upheld and one was later withdrawn after Scotland Yard found there was no case to answer.
It is not clear if the complaints were made by members of the public or Madeleine’s family.
Sources even hinted that internet trolls could be responsible.
One said: “Because the precise details of the allegations aren’t made public, it’s entirely possible good officers have been subjected to a complaints process even though there may be little merit in the allegations against them.”
Details of the cases were disclosed under Freedom of Information laws.
Fresh hope for Maddie McCann’s parents as they reveal Jayme Closs case has boosted confidence they’ll find missing daughter
Madeleine was three when she vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal in 2007.
A probe by Portuguese police ended in 2008.
The Met’s Operation Grange probe was launched in 2011.
All three officers who were accused of misconduct during the search for Maddie have been cleared of the allegations
All three officers who were accused of misconduct during the search for Maddie have been cleared of the allegations Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter went missing whilst on a family holiday to Portugal in 2007
Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter went missing whilst on a family holiday to Portugal in 2007
Madeleine McCann's father Gerry McCann describes 'disbelief, panic and terror' at moment he realised daughter was missing in rare interview
Sounds like the CMOMM Justice fighters at it again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 03, 2019, 11:07:31 AM
Who knew enough about the investigation to lodge them ? There certainly had to be some merit to the claims for an investigation to be launched and a member of the public or trolls would not have had access to that kind of information I would have thought.
The McCann family ? If they are being kept in the loop as we are told then they certainly would have the means but what would be the motive ? What would the gain ?
Who lodged the freedom request ? Who told the lodger that an investigation had taken place.
So many questions but the main one as always with this case is...who benefits ?
The paper benefits, click bait and newspaper sales. You should realise this by now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 03, 2019, 11:44:16 AM
The paper benefits, click bait and newspaper sales. You should realise this by now.
Only from the article. Who benefited from making the complaints in the first place? Who was sufficiently close to the investigation to know the identities of 3 officers?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2019, 12:06:29 PM
Only from the article. Who benefited from making the complaints in the first place? Who was sufficiently close to the investigation to know the identities of 3 officers?
Certainly not Bennett whose letters and petitions are generally rather more scattershot. Not Twitter ‘trolls’ who wouldn’t have access to that information. Further I don’t think the general public know nor care about the internal workings of OG.
Of course if the parents felt that the investigation was looking in the wrong direction , as they did with the PJ, it might be worth a punt. They certainly had access to the necessary information and it would also be a way of discrediting the current investigation.
I suppose time will tell.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 03, 2019, 12:12:10 PM
I have always thought that you are a kind person, so I really don't get your continued demands for Searching when you full well know that this wasn't possible.
However, if you could tell us all how you think The McCanns could and should have done this then I at least will be better informed.
You tell us all that The McCanns should have done this, but you never tell us how. And I for one am a bit pissed off with this.
I have explained what they should have done but you obviously missed it. To recap, they should have set up a missing person office in Praia da Luz in order to keep the issue alive and to receive information from persons who don't want to talk to the police. Jenny Murat opened the door by her efforts and that should have continued on a more permanent basis.
The McCanns don't want to do this though, by their actions they have alienated the local population. From day 1 they acted in a manner which could only be described as xenophobic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 03, 2019, 01:40:26 PM
As OG was downsized in 2016, these events would have to have taken place prior to then, for what are the chances of 3 out of the 3 remaining officers being subject to investigation?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 03, 2019, 01:42:26 PM
As OG was downsized in 2016, these events would have to have taken place prior to then, for what are the chances of 3 out of the 3 remaining officers being subject to investigation?
2015 jassi.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 03, 2019, 01:43:19 PM
I seem to recall they put up big posters in PdL and the surrounding area which garnered huge scorn not just from the locals but from a member of this forum who thought that was quite an idiotic thing to do. What do you think?
It was crass imo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 03, 2019, 01:45:40 PM
THREE Madeleine McCann probe cops have been secretly investigated for alleged misconduct.
They were all cleared but the detail of the claims has been kept under wraps.
The investigation into Maddie's disappearance has cost the Metropolitan Police nearly £12million
Each officer was accused of “neglect or failure in their duty” while working on the Met Police’s £12million investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance.
But two allegations were not upheld and one was later withdrawn after Scotland Yard found there was no case to answer.
It is not clear if the complaints were made by members of the public or Madeleine’s family.
Sources even hinted that internet trolls could be responsible.
One said: “Because the precise details of the allegations aren’t made public, it’s entirely possible good officers have been subjected to a complaints process even though there may be little merit in the allegations against them.”
Details of the cases were disclosed under Freedom of Information laws.
Fresh hope for Maddie McCann’s parents as they reveal Jayme Closs case has boosted confidence they’ll find missing daughter
Madeleine was three when she vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal in 2007.
A probe by Portuguese police ended in 2008.
The Met’s Operation Grange probe was launched in 2011.
All three officers who were accused of misconduct during the search for Maddie have been cleared of the allegations
All three officers who were accused of misconduct during the search for Maddie have been cleared of the allegations Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter went missing whilst on a family holiday to Portugal in 2007
Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter went missing whilst on a family holiday to Portugal in 2007
Madeleine McCann's father Gerry McCann describes 'disbelief, panic and terror' at moment he realised daughter was missing in rare interview
Could this relate to the recently identified arguidos from the Luz area?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 03, 2019, 01:53:53 PM
Madeleine McCann, 3, disappeared from the resort in Praia da Luz, Portugal, where her parents were vacationing on May 3, 2007. This missing-person poster, stuck to a board at a bus stop near the resort, reads, "Disappeared yesterday, if you see her contact the police." http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id183.htm
The forum has of course discussed this or similar concerns on many past occasions ... for example John posted ... Snip No doubt in the panic to get something out there wouldn't have been much thought given to how old a particular photo was. Just a thought but this particular first photo showing her in pink clothing might have had more to do with the pink PJ's she was wearing the night she disappeared. I believe it was a short time later that her eye defect became a prominent feature in photos. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7811.msg367130#msg367130
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 03, 2019, 03:03:29 PM
I really don't know why they bother. Just yet another illustration of an own goal over a fuss about nothing ... if I didn't know better I would think it was nothing but an attempt to throw a spanner into the works.
Snip "Two of the allegations made against the cops were withdrawn and the final one was dropped by Scotland Yard when they decided there was no case to answer ... ____________________________________________________
One said: “Because the precise details of the allegations aren’t made public, it’s entirely possible good officers have been subjected to a complaints process even though there may be little merit in the allegations against them.” https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/757467/Madeleine-McCann-police-investigated-misconduct-Kate-Gerry-McCann-Portugal-missing-person?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-star-latest-news+%28Daily+Star+%3A%3A+News+Feed%29
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 07, 2019, 06:32:21 PM
You know that argument “if the McCanns were being investigated do you really think we’d know anything about it”, well how does one explain the fact that I’ve just read in the newspaper the name and life history of some chap in Hull who is being investigated for abducting a student?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 07, 2019, 07:13:32 PM
You know that argument “if the McCanns were being investigated do you really think we’d know anything about it”, well how does one explain the fact that I’ve just read in the newspaper the name and life history of some chap in Hull who is being investigated for abducting a student?
It also shows the suspect's car being taken away after being loaded and secured onto a flatbed truck.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 07, 2019, 07:58:40 PM
Leonor Cipriano – the Algarve mother jailed in 2006 for the murder of her eight year old daughter Joana – has been released after serving five-sixths of her sentence.
Talking to TVI24 at the gates of Odemira jail this morning, she said she was leaving with her head held high.
“I am going to work. I have a little job. I don’t need to say anymore”.
But the questions remain. What really happened to tragic Joana whose body has never been found?
Leonor and her now estranged brother João admitted in court that they had killed the little girl at her home in Figueira, midway between Portimão and Mexilhoeira Grande.
João claims to have cut up her body and hidden it in a chest freezer. The child’s remains were later ‘fed to the pigs’.
“I didn’t hurt her, I just killed her”, João told the court which originally passed sentences on him of 19 years and two months, and on Leonor of 20 years and four months.
The prosecution’s case was based on the theory that Leonor and João were engaged in an incestuous relationship – and that they killed Joana for having walked in on them both in bed.
But there have always been those that doubted the story – neighbours particularly. And now Leonor has once again insisted that she had nothing to do with her daughter’s disappearance, least of all her death.
In the mists of this morning in the Alentejo she answered the question “what happened that night when Joana left to go shopping ?” with “she left and never came home. Anyone who says she came home is lying”.
Leonor claims the only reason she admitted to having killed the little girl was because she was tortured by agents of the investigating PJ police.
“They tortured me so much, they left me black and blue from so much punching that I reached the point where I didn’t know what I was saying…” This too is a sore point in the case: PJ inspectors Gonçalo Amaral and António Nunes Cardoso were given suspended jail sentences for profering false testimonies over the beating.
The condemnation was used liberally to discredit Amaral when he later went on to coordinate the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. But back to Joana, and fact that a body has never been found. Leonor told TVI this morning: “I was condemned without proof. I did not kill my daughter I would never have hurt her”.
Even more, she claims that she “will go everywhere” she can to look for Joana, who would now be 22 years old.
It also shows the suspect's car being taken away after being loaded and secured onto a flatbed truck.
Have been following this each day & I hope Libby is found soon. Her family must be suffering so much. 2 students gone in one week, one known unhappy outcome. However old our children are, they're never safe.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2019, 08:49:34 PM
Have been following this each day & I hope Libby is found soon. Her family must be suffering so much. 2 students gone in one week, one known unhappy outcome. However old our children are, they're never safe.
Indeed. And then the grandchildren come along and one hopes for their safety too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 07, 2019, 09:17:36 PM
He was arrested. We knew that the McCanns were suspects only after they were made arguidos but, officially, not during the investigation.
If the McCanns are once again prime suspects then that must be because of new evidence. Why therefore have they not been arrested and questioned about it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 07, 2019, 09:20:34 PM
Leonor Cipriano – the Algarve mother jailed in 2006 for the murder of her eight year old daughter Joana – has been released after serving five-sixths of her sentence.
Talking to TVI24 at the gates of Odemira jail this morning, she said she was leaving with her head held high.
“I am going to work. I have a little job. I don’t need to say anymore”.
But the questions remain. What really happened to tragic Joana whose body has never been found?
Leonor and her now estranged brother João admitted in court that they had killed the little girl at her home in Figueira, midway between Portimão and Mexilhoeira Grande.
João claims to have cut up her body and hidden it in a chest freezer. The child’s remains were later ‘fed to the pigs’.
“I didn’t hurt her, I just killed her”, João told the court which originally passed sentences on him of 19 years and two months, and on Leonor of 20 years and four months.
The prosecution’s case was based on the theory that Leonor and João were engaged in an incestuous relationship – and that they killed Joana for having walked in on them both in bed.
But there have always been those that doubted the story – neighbours particularly. And now Leonor has once again insisted that she had nothing to do with her daughter’s disappearance, least of all her death.
In the mists of this morning in the Alentejo she answered the question “what happened that night when Joana left to go shopping ?” with “she left and never came home. Anyone who says she came home is lying”.
Leonor claims the only reason she admitted to having killed the little girl was because she was tortured by agents of the investigating PJ police.
“They tortured me so much, they left me black and blue from so much punching that I reached the point where I didn’t know what I was saying…” This too is a sore point in the case: PJ inspectors Gonçalo Amaral and António Nunes Cardoso were given suspended jail sentences for profering false testimonies over the beating.
The condemnation was used liberally to discredit Amaral when he later went on to coordinate the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. But back to Joana, and fact that a body has never been found. Leonor told TVI this morning: “I was condemned without proof. I did not kill my daughter I would never have hurt her”.
Even more, she claims that she “will go everywhere” she can to look for Joana, who would now be 22 years old.
‘Even more, she claims that she “will go everywhere” she can to look for Joana, who would now be 22 years old.’
I believe OJ Simpson said the same thing about finding Nicole’s killer.
Leonor has served her time so she doesn't have to do anything at all insofar as searching for Joana is concerned. I hope she can find a group who will back any quest to find her daughter.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 07, 2019, 10:15:32 PM
I see she’s got a little job lined up - SIL’s new cleaner perhaps?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2019, 10:28:01 PM
Leonor has served her time so she doesn't have to do anything at all insofar as searching for Joana is concerned. I hope she can find a group who will back any quest to find her daughter.
Have you forgotten Misty, she’s here daughter ? It would be a talking point, whether guilty or innocent, if she didn’t even pretend to search.
Perhaps now the McCanns have the GBP bankrolling their search they may give Cipriano some money from the fund and advice, what with their search being so successful and all. It’s the least they could do by way of a thank you for her part in the downfall of their greatest foe.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 07, 2019, 10:30:32 PM
I am pleased to hear this, in so far as it is possible to be pleased.
Agreed. However even at this late date the inaccurate reporting continues.
Ms Donn reports ... "The condemnation was used liberally to discredit Amaral when he later went on to coordinate the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann." which is a distortion of the facts.
Amaral's trial and conviction didn't occur until 2009 long after Madeleine's case had been shelved.
Snip
23 May 2009
The former Portuguese police chief who accused the parents of Madeleine McCann of involvement in her disappearance, has been found guilty of falsifying evidence in another missing child case.
Have you forgotten Misty, she’s here daughter ? It would be a talking point, whether guilty or innocent, if she didn’t even pretend to search.
Perhaps now the McCanns have the GBP bankrolling their search they may give Cipriano some money from the fund and advice, what with their search being so successful and all. It’s the least they could do by way of a thank you for her part in the downfall of their greatest foe.
Perhaps "their greatest foe" played a huge part in his own "downfall". I am assuming you are referring to GA.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2019, 10:37:23 PM
Agreed. However even at this late date the inaccurate reporting continues.
Ms Donn reports ... "The condemnation was used liberally to discredit Amaral when he later went on to coordinate the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann." which is a distortion of the facts.
Amaral's trial and conviction didn't occur until 2009 long after Madeleine's case had been shelved.
Snip
23 May 2009
The former Portuguese police chief who accused the parents of Madeleine McCann of involvement in her disappearance, has been found guilty of falsifying evidence in another missing child case.
Even before he was tried the fact that he was an arguido was certainly used to condemn him.
I often wonder how the Amaral supporters would have reacted had a Portuguese couple's child gone missing in the UK in similar circumstances & a UK DCI under investigation for complicity in the abuse of a prisoner had been overseeing the case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 07, 2019, 11:04:23 PM
Have you forgotten Misty, she’s here daughter ? It would be a talking point, whether guilty or innocent, if she didn’t even pretend to search.
Perhaps now the McCanns have the GBP bankrolling their search they may give Cipriano some money from the fund and advice, what with their search being so successful and all. It’s the least they could do by way of a thank you for her part in the downfall of their greatest foe.
Why would Leonor resume a search for Joana if she knows she is dead? She's already lost 20 years of her own life & freedom. I think it's up to the Portuguese public to back any search if they have no faith in their justice system.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 07, 2019, 11:10:05 PM
Perhaps "their greatest foe" played a huge part in his own "downfall". I am assuming you are referring to GA.
I think the great divide starts an end there regarding who was the architect of his own misfortunes.
Interesting that I've never seen the volume of alleged criticism of Amaral on MSM during the few months while Madeleine's case was active. Although if it had been ... so what? Should he even have been near the case given what his superiors knew about him and given his conduct of the case apropos the two mothers of the missing children. A situation about which the husband of the one convicted of the murder of her child warned the one still an arguida in the disappearance of hers.
Detective in McCann Case Investigated For Beating Convicted Child Murderer Portuguese detective in McCann case accused of beating suspect in 2004 case.
By FABIOLA ANTEZANAPRAIA DA LUZ, Portugal, Sept. 26, 2007 — — Feb 12, 2009 4:42 PM ET The husband of a convicted murderer has accused the Portuguese investigator spearheading the case of Madeleine McCann of beating a confession out of his wife.
Leonor Cipriano, 36, was convicted of the murder of her eight-year-old daughter Joana, who disappeared in the Algarve region in September 2004 under similar circumstances to the McCann disappearance.
In an exclusive interview, Cipriano's common-law husband, Leandro Silva, told ABC News that his wife said she was beaten repeatedly as police grilled her during a three-day long interrogation.
"'They beat it out of me', she told me, 'they beat me until I confessed,'" Silva said as he recalled his first visit to his wife about a week after police took her into custody.
"The only difference between the McCanns and us is that we don't have money," Silva said. "They have means, they have high powered attorneys that they can pay."
According to Silva, his wife told him that chief inspector Gonçalo Amaral, one of the leading detectives in the McCann case, watched as police hit her in the face and chest again and again.
Local newspapers have reported that Amaral and four other officers will be in court next month to face charges surrounding the beating allegations. But Amaral has not been suspended from his work on the McCann case.
Cipriano is currently serving a 16-year sentence for the murder of Joana who disappeared in 2004 in a town less than 15 miles from where Madeleine McCann disappeared nearly five months ago.
Joana's body has never been found. McCann, who was 3 years old when she went missing has also not been found, but the family and police still hold out hope that she is still alive.
Kate McCann and her husband, Gerry, were declared "arguido," or official suspects, last month, although under Portuguese law, the police are not allowed to divulge publicly what evidence they have. But the couple, both doctors and substantially well-off, have been allowed to leave Portugal.
Confession at All Costs Alleged Silva said his wife retracted her statement just two days after confessing to Portuguese police, but she remains in a women's prison in Odemira, about a two-hour drive from Praia da Luz.
Joana went missing one night when her parents say she went for a short walk to the local market in her home town of Figuera, near Portimão. Cipriano was arrested and convicted, in part because of her confession, along with the discovery of some of Joana's blood, police say they found in Cipriano's home.
Maddie also disappeared just minutes from where her parents were dining at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz in May 2007.
"I knew immediately that it was the police that had done that to her," Silva said. "They wanted her to confess to a crime she did not commit."
He shakes his head back and forth saying that the police in Portugal don't work professionally.
Amaral could not be reached for comment and police refused to talk about the allegations.
"We all saw the bruises," Silva said. "My mother, my sister and me. Leonor's face was all battered and bruised, so was her chest."
"Leonor was a good person, she didn't deserve this, but then there is no justice for the poor."
Inequality Alleged Between Rich and Poor Suspects Silva, a 41-year-old auto mechanic, said his wife is not the only member of his family to be treated roughly by Portuguese police.
Maria de Lourdes, Silva's mother, who visits her daughter-in-law regularly in prison, said she was also abused by Portuguese police in Faro in interviews conducted during the Joana investigation.
"The police in Portimão treated us really well," she told ABC News in her home near Lagos. "But the Faro police were awful. They gave us nothing to eat or drink the whole day," said the 57-year-old mother of nine. "They battered us physically and mentally."
Amaral was always present during questioning, de Lourdes said her daughter-in-law told her.
"He controlled everything," she said. "And he kept asking me: 'Did you see blood in the house?' 'I'm sure you cleaned the house with petrol to get rid of the smell.'"
"They have accused us of everything that we killed Joana, that we stabbed her, even that we sold her," de Lourdes said.
But as far as de Lourdes is concerned, the worst thing is not knowing what happened to Joana and then being blamed for her disappearance.
"How can they prove that we had anything to do with her disappearance?"
Privileged vs. Poor "If Kate McCann were Portuguese, she would already be in jail," said de Lourdes.
The McCann's circle of friends and savvy contacts have been able to generate the kind of media attention that has made their daughter's face instantly recognizable all over the world. They have also hired top attorneys in Portugal and the U.K., as well as forensic experts to pick apart every DNA sample gathered by investigators.
The couple has also received financial backing from a British millionaire Brian Kennedy, a move that may have saved the 39-year-old doctors from having to sell their home to cover their legal defense.
Still, despite her bitterness over what she believes is her own daughter-in-laws wrongful conviction de Lourdes is convinced of Kate McCann's innocence. In fact the slightest mention of the couple brings empathy from de Lourdes.
"I don't think that that woman is capable of doing something like that to her daughter," she said. "I just don't believe it."
"The same Portuguese press that are now chasing the McCanns are the same journalists who were on my doorstep when Joana disappeared," she said.
And while she knows that she and Kate McCann come from very different worlds their situations are parallel.
"Our plight is not so different anymore," she said. "So I cannot help but feel for that woman. After all we are on the same path."
De Lourdes recalls vividly the day Joana went missing.
"I got the phone call around midnight," said de Lourdes. "My son Leandro was asking me if Joana was here with me." They then went to look for her at the cousin's house where she spent the afternoon.
"When I didn't hear from them again, I assumed they had found her," she said.
But the following morning when de Lourdes was getting ready to pick up her son to go to work, she saw her daughter in law Leonor walking down the street sobbing hysterically.
"'Joana is missing,'" she told me.
The girl's parents called police within an hour of Joana's disappearance. But according to Leandro and his mother, police did not begin searching for his daughter until 48 hours after they reported her missing.
Life After Joana Silva remains convinced of his wife's innocence. But he is particularly bitter about Amaral, against whom he has lodged a formal complaint.
"He (Amaral) should not even be working on this (the McCanns') case," said Silva.
If the beating charges turn out to be true it will hurt the McCann investigation, according to Roy Ramm, former commander of special investigations at Scotland Yard. Ramm told ABC News: "This is not something you would expect to find in the U.K. When someone has allegations of falsifying evidence and beating a witness and these are very serious allegations -- it does not bode well for the case."
"People have to have confidence in the person leading the investigation," he added. "Otherwise the chances of a satisfactory outcome are jeopardized."
In a book entitled "The Star of Joana," former Portuguese detective Paulo Pereira Cristovão alleges how police took too long in organizing a search for the little girl.
Silva thinks his wife's beating was a simple matter of the police needing to find a suspect as well as maintaining a safe image for tourists who come to the Algarve.
He calls the accusations against her ridiculous. "She was a great mother," said Silva. "She never even hit Joana, not once even when our little girl insulted her."
Joana was not Silva's biological daughter but he insists she was still his daughter. "First they took my daughter, now the police have taken my love, my lifelong partner."
Why would Leonor resume a search for Joana if she knows she is dead? She's already lost 20 years of her own life & freedom. I think it's up to the Portuguese public to back any search if they have no faith in their justice system.
It will be interesting to see if Leonor might think about seeking the assistance of an established ghost writer to write a book about her experiences over the past twenty years.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 07, 2019, 11:28:36 PM
It will be interesting to see if Leonor might think about seeking the assistance of an established ghost writer to write a book about her experiences over the past twenty years.
I'm not sure a book would be the right way forward for Leonor at present. It will be interesting to see what steps, if any, she takes to look for Joana in the future & the support she receives.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2019, 11:46:34 PM
I often wonder how the Amaral supporters would have reacted had a Portuguese couple's child gone missing in the UK in similar circumstances & a UK DCI under investigation for complicity in the abuse of a prisoner had been overseeing the case.
I would assume in those circumstances he would be suspended.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2019, 11:47:36 PM
Why would Leonor resume a search for Joana if she knows she is dead? She's already lost 20 years of her own life & freedom. I think it's up to the Portuguese public to back any search if they have no faith in their justice system.
Let’s see if she conducts a search first shall we ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 07, 2019, 11:51:56 PM
I'm not sure a book would be the right way forward for Leonor at present. It will be interesting to see what steps, if any, she takes to look for Joana in the future & the support she receives.
Twenty years is a long time to have had your life put on hold ... she will probably have to spend some time getting acclimatised to freedom and catching up with friends and family.
I have no idea what a simple woman in her circumstances could do to look for her daughter this late in the day particularly while she carries the 'murderess' tag around with her in Portugal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 07, 2019, 11:55:46 PM
I think the great divide starts an end there regarding who was the architect of his own misfortunes.
Interesting that I've never seen the volume of alleged criticism of Amaral on MSM during the few months while Madeleine's case was active. Although if it had been ... so what? Should he even have been near the case given what his superiors knew about him and given his conduct of the case apropos the two mothers of the missing children. A situation about which the husband of the one convicted of the murder of her child warned the one still an arguida in the disappearance of hers.
Detective in McCann Case Investigated For Beating Convicted Child Murderer Portuguese detective in McCann case accused of beating suspect in 2004 case.
By FABIOLA ANTEZANAPRAIA DA LUZ, Portugal, Sept. 26, 2007 — — Feb 12, 2009 4:42 PM ET The husband of a convicted murderer has accused the Portuguese investigator spearheading the case of Madeleine McCann of beating a confession out of his wife.
Leonor Cipriano, 36, was convicted of the murder of her eight-year-old daughter Joana, who disappeared in the Algarve region in September 2004 under similar circumstances to the McCann disappearance.
In an exclusive interview, Cipriano's common-law husband, Leandro Silva, told ABC News that his wife said she was beaten repeatedly as police grilled her during a three-day long interrogation.
"'They beat it out of me', she told me, 'they beat me until I confessed,'" Silva said as he recalled his first visit to his wife about a week after police took her into custody.
"The only difference between the McCanns and us is that we don't have money," Silva said. "They have means, they have high powered attorneys that they can pay."
According to Silva, his wife told him that chief inspector Gonçalo Amaral, one of the leading detectives in the McCann case, watched as police hit her in the face and chest again and again.
Local newspapers have reported that Amaral and four other officers will be in court next month to face charges surrounding the beating allegations. But Amaral has not been suspended from his work on the McCann case.
Cipriano is currently serving a 16-year sentence for the murder of Joana who disappeared in 2004 in a town less than 15 miles from where Madeleine McCann disappeared nearly five months ago.
Joana's body has never been found. McCann, who was 3 years old when she went missing has also not been found, but the family and police still hold out hope that she is still alive.
Kate McCann and her husband, Gerry, were declared "arguido," or official suspects, last month, although under Portuguese law, the police are not allowed to divulge publicly what evidence they have. But the couple, both doctors and substantially well-off, have been allowed to leave Portugal.
Confession at All Costs Alleged Silva said his wife retracted her statement just two days after confessing to Portuguese police, but she remains in a women's prison in Odemira, about a two-hour drive from Praia da Luz.
Joana went missing one night when her parents say she went for a short walk to the local market in her home town of Figuera, near Portimão. Cipriano was arrested and convicted, in part because of her confession, along with the discovery of some of Joana's blood, police say they found in Cipriano's home.
Maddie also disappeared just minutes from where her parents were dining at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz in May 2007.
"I knew immediately that it was the police that had done that to her," Silva said. "They wanted her to confess to a crime she did not commit."
He shakes his head back and forth saying that the police in Portugal don't work professionally.
Amaral could not be reached for comment and police refused to talk about the allegations.
"We all saw the bruises," Silva said. "My mother, my sister and me. Leonor's face was all battered and bruised, so was her chest."
"Leonor was a good person, she didn't deserve this, but then there is no justice for the poor."
Inequality Alleged Between Rich and Poor Suspects Silva, a 41-year-old auto mechanic, said his wife is not the only member of his family to be treated roughly by Portuguese police.
Maria de Lourdes, Silva's mother, who visits her daughter-in-law regularly in prison, said she was also abused by Portuguese police in Faro in interviews conducted during the Joana investigation.
"The police in Portimão treated us really well," she told ABC News in her home near Lagos. "But the Faro police were awful. They gave us nothing to eat or drink the whole day," said the 57-year-old mother of nine. "They battered us physically and mentally."
Amaral was always present during questioning, de Lourdes said her daughter-in-law told her.
"He controlled everything," she said. "And he kept asking me: 'Did you see blood in the house?' 'I'm sure you cleaned the house with petrol to get rid of the smell.'"
"They have accused us of everything that we killed Joana, that we stabbed her, even that we sold her," de Lourdes said.
But as far as de Lourdes is concerned, the worst thing is not knowing what happened to Joana and then being blamed for her disappearance.
"How can they prove that we had anything to do with her disappearance?"
Privileged vs. Poor "If Kate McCann were Portuguese, she would already be in jail," said de Lourdes.
The McCann's circle of friends and savvy contacts have been able to generate the kind of media attention that has made their daughter's face instantly recognizable all over the world. They have also hired top attorneys in Portugal and the U.K., as well as forensic experts to pick apart every DNA sample gathered by investigators.
The couple has also received financial backing from a British millionaire Brian Kennedy, a move that may have saved the 39-year-old doctors from having to sell their home to cover their legal defense.
Still, despite her bitterness over what she believes is her own daughter-in-laws wrongful conviction de Lourdes is convinced of Kate McCann's innocence. In fact the slightest mention of the couple brings empathy from de Lourdes.
"I don't think that that woman is capable of doing something like that to her daughter," she said. "I just don't believe it."
"The same Portuguese press that are now chasing the McCanns are the same journalists who were on my doorstep when Joana disappeared," she said.
And while she knows that she and Kate McCann come from very different worlds their situations are parallel.
"Our plight is not so different anymore," she said. "So I cannot help but feel for that woman. After all we are on the same path."
De Lourdes recalls vividly the day Joana went missing.
"I got the phone call around midnight," said de Lourdes. "My son Leandro was asking me if Joana was here with me." They then went to look for her at the cousin's house where she spent the afternoon.
"When I didn't hear from them again, I assumed they had found her," she said.
But the following morning when de Lourdes was getting ready to pick up her son to go to work, she saw her daughter in law Leonor walking down the street sobbing hysterically.
"'Joana is missing,'" she told me.
The girl's parents called police within an hour of Joana's disappearance. But according to Leandro and his mother, police did not begin searching for his daughter until 48 hours after they reported her missing.
Life After Joana Silva remains convinced of his wife's innocence. But he is particularly bitter about Amaral, against whom he has lodged a formal complaint.
"He (Amaral) should not even be working on this (the McCanns') case," said Silva.
If the beating charges turn out to be true it will hurt the McCann investigation, according to Roy Ramm, former commander of special investigations at Scotland Yard. Ramm told ABC News: "This is not something you would expect to find in the U.K. When someone has allegations of falsifying evidence and beating a witness and these are very serious allegations -- it does not bode well for the case."
"People have to have confidence in the person leading the investigation," he added. "Otherwise the chances of a satisfactory outcome are jeopardized."
In a book entitled "The Star of Joana," former Portuguese detective Paulo Pereira Cristovão alleges how police took too long in organizing a search for the little girl.
Silva thinks his wife's beating was a simple matter of the police needing to find a suspect as well as maintaining a safe image for tourists who come to the Algarve.
He calls the accusations against her ridiculous. "She was a great mother," said Silva. "She never even hit Joana, not once even when our little girl insulted her."
Joana was not Silva's biological daughter but he insists she was still his daughter. "First they took my daughter, now the police have taken my love, my lifelong partner."
I believe the interviewee gave evidence against his sister in court.
From the Algarve Resident ( link no longer active) http://algarveresident.com/10046-3535/algarve/portugals-silent-child-victims
‘The trial included key testimony from Joana's stepfather, António Leandro, who related that Leonor had confided to him that she had had a sexual relationship with her brother. He also told the court that during this conversation, which took place a few days after Joana's disappearance, at judicial police headquarters, Leonor had admitted that she and her brother had killed the little girl. ‘
Of course talking to the tabloids would be a nice little earner for someone in such dire straits.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 08, 2019, 12:08:41 AM
Twenty years is a long time to have had your life put on hold ... she will probably have to spend some time getting acclimatised to freedom and catching up with friends and family.
I have no idea what a simple woman in her circumstances could do to look for her daughter this late in the day particularly while she carries the 'murderess' tag around with her in Portugal.
From things I have seen and read many Portuguese people think she was the victim of a police stitch up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 08, 2019, 12:43:26 AM
I would assume in those circumstances he would be suspended.
Hypothetically - what if he was allowed to continue to lead the case? Would UK media/social media be supportive of him or sympathetic to the parents of the missing child, especially if spurious allegations were cast against the parents?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 08, 2019, 12:55:34 AM
For anyone who can stomach the farcical reconstitution, CdM has excelled itself in the leading story on the day of Leonor's release.
(If anyone can copy & upload the video it would be appreciated).
Instead of the still photographs portraying the dismemberment I would really have liked to see live video footage of this guy trying to load the dismembered limbs, torso and head into the tiny compartments of that small freezer.
Even from the still images it can clearly be seen that the PJ 'evidence' is hogwash and just could not have happened as portrayed. What a farce!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 08, 2019, 01:24:46 AM
Instead of the still photographs portraying the dismemberment I would really have liked to see live video footage of this guy trying to load the dismembered limbs, torso and head into the tiny compartments of that small freezer.
Even from the still images it can clearly be seen that the PJ 'evidence' is hogwash and just could not have happened as portrayed. What a farce!
John posted the full video here, Brietta. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7762.msg362675#msg362675
ETA I'm not entirely sure that it's Joao pictured in the stills of the dismemberment.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 08, 2019, 10:12:41 AM
Hypothetically - what if he was allowed to continue to lead the case? Would UK media/social media be supportive of him or sympathetic to the parents of the missing child, especially if spurious allegations were cast against the parents?
It wouldn’t happen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 08, 2019, 10:34:18 AM
John posted the full video here, Brietta. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7762.msg362675#msg362675
ETA I'm not entirely sure that it's Joao pictured in the stills of the dismemberment.
Absolutely sickening and what the reconstitution shows is that João was in no way coerced into telling his tale.
I’m really not sure how anyone can support these animals. How much support do you think a British couple would receive in the UK if a similar reconstitution was shown on the news ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 08, 2019, 10:48:29 AM
Absolutely sickening and what the reconstitution shows is that João was in no way coerced into telling his tale.
I’m really not sure how anyone can support these animals. How much support do you think a British couple would receive in the UK if a similar reconstitution was shown on the news ?
It wouldn't happen.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 08, 2019, 11:05:15 AM
John posted the full video here, Brietta. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=7762.msg362675#msg362675
ETA I'm not entirely sure that it's Joao pictured in the stills of the dismemberment.
Thanks Misty. It rather reinforces the opinion of the appeal court judge who said ... Snip "The simple reading of the conviction shows that the only evidence that allowed to establish the events that led to the death of Joana is the reconstitution of the facts, carried out in the course of the investigation with the collaboration of the defendant João Cipriano, but without the presence of the defendant Leonor Cyprian. There were no face-to-face witnesses, the defendants referred to the silence of the trial, their statements in the investigation could not be assessed by the Court and it was not possible to directly examine the corpse. "How did the jury find out that the child was beaten by the two defendants? And how did you know he hit his head on the corner of the wall? And what was visible bleeding from the mouth, nose, and temple, through the clashing on the wall? And that such strikes and fall caused the death of the child? And that the two defendants were assured (!) Of the death of the minor? And then they quartered the corpse and put it in plastic bags in the drawers of the cold ark? "The answer to these questions was obtained solely by the reconstitutions of the defendant João Cipriano, since the other means of evidence indicated in the sentence allow to affirm that there was a death, but not how it happened and who provoked it ..." "The assessment of uncorroborated reconstitutions of the defendant Leonor, as it happened, is unlawful and unconstitutional and should have led to her acquittal for the crime of homicide. This was no longer the case for the crime of desecration and concealment of a corpse, since it could not have been executed by the defendant João Cipriano without the active collaboration of the defendant, with him present at the time and place of the crime. _____________________________________________________________________________
'In summary, it is clear from the reading of the conviction which the jury decided on the defendants at the points indicated and thus violated the principle of the presumption of innocence which obliges the court to give a conviction only when there is no doubt reasonable. And the condemnation based on mere assumptions or on the possibly perverse and associative nature of the accused is also illegal and unconstitutional ».
Thanks Misty. It rather reinforces the opinion of the appeal court judge who said ... Snip "The simple reading of the conviction shows that the only evidence that allowed to establish the events that led to the death of Joana is the reconstitution of the facts, carried out in the course of the investigation with the collaboration of the defendant João Cipriano, but without the presence of the defendant Leonor Cyprian. There were no face-to-face witnesses, the defendants referred to the silence of the trial, their statements in the investigation could not be assessed by the Court and it was not possible to directly examine the corpse. "How did the jury find out that the child was beaten by the two defendants? And how did you know he hit his head on the corner of the wall? And what was visible bleeding from the mouth, nose, and temple, through the clashing on the wall? And that such strikes and fall caused the death of the child? And that the two defendants were assured (!) Of the death of the minor? And then they quartered the corpse and put it in plastic bags in the drawers of the cold ark? "The answer to these questions was obtained solely by the reconstitutions of the defendant João Cipriano, since the other means of evidence indicated in the sentence allow to affirm that there was a death, but not how it happened and who provoked it ..." "The assessment of uncorroborated reconstitutions of the defendant Leonor, as it happened, is unlawful and unconstitutional and should have led to her acquittal for the crime of homicide. This was no longer the case for the crime of desecration and concealment of a corpse, since it could not have been executed by the defendant João Cipriano without the active collaboration of the defendant, with him present at the time and place of the crime. _____________________________________________________________________________
'In summary, it is clear from the reading of the conviction which the jury decided on the defendants at the points indicated and thus violated the principle of the presumption of innocence which obliges the court to give a conviction only when there is no doubt reasonable. And the condemnation based on mere assumptions or on the possibly perverse and associative nature of the accused is also illegal and unconstitutional ».
You know that argument “if the McCanns were being investigated do you really think we’d know anything about it”, well how does one explain the fact that I’ve just read in the newspaper the name and life history of some chap in Hull who is being investigated for abducting a student?
I also read about Cliff Richards being investigated, we know how that turned out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 08, 2019, 05:48:02 PM
Absolutely sickening and what the reconstitution shows is that João was in no way coerced into telling his tale.
I’m really not sure how anyone can support these animals. How much support do you think a British couple would receive in the UK if a similar reconstitution was shown on the news ?
How does the video show that he was not coerced, moreover given that it’s not uncommon for people accused of a crime (especially those of low intelligence or poor backgrounds) to be manipulated into confessing to something they didn’t do, why are you so convincing of his guilt?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 08, 2019, 06:15:17 PM
Absolutely sickening and what the reconstitution shows is that João was in no way coerced into telling his tale.
I’m really not sure how anyone can support these animals. How much support do you think a British couple would receive in the UK if a similar reconstitution was shown on the news ?
I think if the case had been shown on tbe news they would never have been arrested... If the UK public had seen the face of Leonora... And understood there was no real evidence against her... It would be the police facing arrest and imprisonment
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 08, 2019, 06:18:28 PM
I think if the case had been shown on tbe news they would never have been arrested... If the UK public had seen the face of Leonora... And understood there was no real evidence against her... It would be the police facing arrest and imprisonment
The provenance of the photographs of Cipriano were questioned by a photographic expert in court and it is on those photographs that the whole abuse case hangs.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 08, 2019, 06:20:28 PM
The provenance of the photographs of Cipriano were questioned by a photographic expert in court and it is on those photographs that the whole abuse case hangs.
The court foundshe had been tortured, are you claiming they arrived at the wrong conclusion?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 08, 2019, 06:36:44 PM
The provenance of the photographs of Cipriano were questioned by a photographic expert in court and it is on those photographs that the whole abuse case hangs.
Questioned by a so called expert for the PJ... That is not proof they had been altered... What was proved
in court was
The PJ officers claimed Leonora had fallen down the stairs... Not supported by medical evidence... Therefore a lie
As I understand the expert testified they could have been altered... Not that they had been altered
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on February 19, 2019, 04:06:49 PM
Madeleine McCann hope as case taken on by scientist who cracked Stephen Lawrence murder.
Published 18 February 2019
THE disappearance of Madeleine McCann will be investigated by the forensic scientist credited with cracking the Stephen Lawrence and Damilola Taylor cases.
Angela Gallop discovered vital evidence that solved the deaths of Stephen Lawrence, Damilola Taylor and “God’s banker” Roberto Calvi.
Now, she wants to help find Maddie, who vanished aged three from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007 while her parents were dining in a nearby tapas restaurant with pals.
"It would be extraordinarily difficult because it's in a different country and you don't know what's happened to the exhibits," the 69-year-old told the Sunday Times magazine.
"I've been involved in cases where it looks hopeless, so I'm not too daunted by anything these days.
“Every contact leaves a trace, it's just finding it."
During her 45-year career, Gallop has been involved in solving some of the UK’s most challenging criminal cases.
In 2006, she and her team discovered the evidence that led to the convictions of the Preddie brothers for the manslaughter of ten-year-old Damilola Taylor in November 2000, putting the four youngsters originally charged with the crime in the clear.
Then, she was approached by cops about the Stephen Lawrence case, at that time the most high-profile unsolved crime in the UK.
Madeleine McCann hope as case taken on by scientist who cracked Stephen Lawrence murder.
Published 18 February 2019
THE disappearance of Madeleine McCann will be investigated by the forensic scientist credited with cracking the Stephen Lawrence and Damilola Taylor cases.
Angela Gallop discovered vital evidence that solved the deaths of Stephen Lawrence, Damilola Taylor and “God’s banker” Roberto Calvi.
Now, she wants to help find Maddie, who vanished aged three from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, in May 2007 while her parents were dining in a nearby tapas restaurant with pals.
"It would be extraordinarily difficult because it's in a different country and you don't know what's happened to the exhibits," the 69-year-old told the Sunday Times magazine.
"I've been involved in cases where it looks hopeless, so I'm not too daunted by anything these days.
“Every contact leaves a trace, it's just finding it."
During her 45-year career, Gallop has been involved in solving some of the UK’s most challenging criminal cases.
In 2006, she and her team discovered the evidence that led to the convictions of the Preddie brothers for the manslaughter of ten-year-old Damilola Taylor in November 2000, putting the four youngsters originally charged with the crime in the clear.
Then, she was approached by cops about the Stephen Lawrence case, at that time the most high-profile unsolved crime in the UK.
This article really is a complete crock. This is the ONLY reference to the Madeleine McCann case in a very long article about Gallop’s work: “Although she is less involved in frontline forensic work these days, there are plenty of cold cases she’d like to take on, including that of Madeleine McCann, the three-year-old British girl who disappeared from an apartment in the Algarve in 2007. “It would be extraordinarily difficult because it’s in a different country and you don’t know what’s happened to the exhibits,” she says — but adds a caveat: “I’ve been involved in cases where it looks hopeless, so I’m not too daunted by anything these days. Every contact leaves a trace, it’s just finding it.”
So she’d LIKE to take it on, nowhere does it say she is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 19, 2019, 07:31:49 PM
Lets see if she has any more success with the forensics than yer man Lowe did.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 19, 2019, 08:02:12 PM
Think she would have great difficulty finding anything to test these days.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 19, 2019, 08:10:12 PM
Oh its that same old song and dance routine b y the supporters- anyone who seeks to help find MBM is... slagged off!., ridiculed. strange phenomenon...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 19, 2019, 10:53:14 PM
Oh its that same old song and dance routine b y the supporters- anyone who seeks to help find MBM is... slagged off!., ridiculed. strange phenomenon...
Angela Gallop has inly expressed an interest in helping, she doesn’t actually appear to br involved in the case in any capacity if you read the original article. And who here is slagging her off? What an absurd observation IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 19, 2019, 11:00:37 PM
Angela Gallop has inly expressed an interest in helping, she doesn’t actually appear to br involved in the case in any capacity if you read the original article. And who here is slagging her off? What an absurd observation IMO.
This article really is a complete crock. This is the ONLY reference to the Madeleine McCann case in a very long article about Gallop’s work: moan moan…
This is in the Times the same fakenewspaper owed by Murdoch .. This is something worth talking about- if she wants involved why shouldn't she say so?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 19, 2019, 11:55:55 PM
Seems Mr Summers and wife are going for another bite of the Madeleine McCann buffet.
This article really is a complete crock. This is the ONLY reference to the Madeleine McCann case in a very long article about Gallop’s work: moan moan…
This is in the Times the same fakenewspaper owed by Murdoch .. This is something worth talking about- if she wants involved why shouldn't she say so?
Is this supposed to be evidence of me slagging off Angela Gallop? How wrong can a person be? I am slagging off misleading newspaper articles that imply she has been drafted in on the case. I know you feel it’s your duty to slag off everything I write on this forum but try to get your facts right first before doing so, thanks.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 20, 2019, 07:23:11 AM
Things must be slow on the holiday let business front.
For an avowed socialist and supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, you really are incredibly sexist IMO, with you repeated insistence of referring to Robbyn Swan as “and wife”. .
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 20, 2019, 07:50:38 AM
This second link from John's post comes up with a video of the reporter I met in Luz just prior to the 10th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.
Michael was here to cover the 2017 service in St Vincent. His photo of the candlelight procession for Madeleine is the best I have seen of that event.
He was also covering other angles. One of those was about me, ShiningInLuz, while another was the story in the video, about the caves around Burgau.
I count Michael as Luz Tour #4, because I spent 2 days showing him around, then I bumped into him at the church service for Madeleine.
I would describe him as a very pleasant, very amiable person. He was also open and honest about what he was doing. The Daily Star likes a large dollop of frisson along with any facts it might reveal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 25, 2019, 12:34:31 PM
Kate Juby, 24, was raped by a motor-vehicle driver in April 2017 when she took a ride on the 33-year-old man. The young woman was in Portugal not only to know the Portuguese culture, but also to go to a music festival near Aljezur, in the Algarve.
Now, almost two years after the rape and four months after the sentence of the offender - sentenced at the Lagos Court to four years and six months suspended sentence - the young woman decided to divulge what happened and says she does not want any another woman faces the same ordeal in the hands of the Portuguese legal system.
Read more in: https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/turista-britanica-violada-em-portugal-quebra-o-anonimato-para-mudar-o-system-juridico-portugues?ref=HP_Destaque
After the attack, she managed to escape to the main road for help. A German couple rescued her, covered her with a blanket, and took care of her until the police arrived. When she arrived at the hospital, Kate claims that the treatment she received was another nightmare: "They put me in a bed and took all my clothes." The doctor told me to stop crying and that I needed to grow up. arm and injected me with two liquids that I did not know what they were. " The woman claims that they subsequently took blood samples from her and did the harvest to collect DNA while telling her not to cry. "The doctor was very cruel to me. It was horrible," he says. The injections were antiretrovirals - used to suppress HIV - and antibiotics. The young woman will also have received emergency contraceptive pills. It followed the Judicial Police of Portimão where Kate affirms not to have been given nor a glass of water during several hours.
The assailant was later caught by the authorities where he would have been in sight of Kate. "It was as traumatic as being raped." I began to cry hysterically, "Six hours earlier, this man had raped me," he told the newspaper Mirror .
It took 18 months for the perpetrator to be brought to court, and while he was entitled to legal aid, he had to use Pro Bono Portugal, a group of volunteer lawyers who offer advice to those who can not afford it. She and her family only met the lawyer two hours before the case came to the Lagos Court in October 2018. The man was sentenced to suspended and to pay damages that Kate claims to have donated to a Portuguese charity. According to the British newspaper Mirror, the young woman was horrified when Tiago Curado de Sousa left the court arm in arm with the woman. According to the young woman, months of therapy, nightmares and the difficulty of returning to work followed. Kate plans to appeal the judgment of Curado de Sousa.
++++++++++++++++++++
Please note most sentences which are under 5 years are suspended in Portugal. There is normally an order for the assailant to pay the victim, on a monthly basis.
The maximum sentence Kate McCann could have got for body occultation was 2 years. She could hardly have been ordered to pay monthly compensation to Madeleine,
She would have walked away as free as a bird.
Unless her lawyer was a total dumbwit, he should have instructed her of these simple facts. Her book "madeleine" implies otherwise.
Alzejur was/is a favourite holiday resort of the then British Prime Minister, David Cameron.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 25, 2019, 01:14:19 PM
Kate Juby, 24, was raped by a motor-vehicle driver in April 2017 when she took a ride on the 33-year-old man. The young woman was in Portugal not only to know the Portuguese culture, but also to go to a music festival near Aljezur, in the Algarve.
Now, almost two years after the rape and four months after the sentence of the offender - sentenced at the Lagos Court to four years and six months suspended sentence - the young woman decided to divulge what happened and says she does not want any another woman faces the same ordeal in the hands of the Portuguese legal system.
Read more in: https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/turista-britanica-violada-em-portugal-quebra-o-anonimato-para-mudar-o-system-juridico-portugues?ref=HP_Destaque
After the attack, she managed to escape to the main road for help. A German couple rescued her, covered her with a blanket, and took care of her until the police arrived. When she arrived at the hospital, Kate claims that the treatment she received was another nightmare: "They put me in a bed and took all my clothes." The doctor told me to stop crying and that I needed to grow up. arm and injected me with two liquids that I did not know what they were. " The woman claims that they subsequently took blood samples from her and did the harvest to collect DNA while telling her not to cry. "The doctor was very cruel to me. It was horrible," he says. The injections were antiretrovirals - used to suppress HIV - and antibiotics. The young woman will also have received emergency contraceptive pills. It followed the Judicial Police of Portimão where Kate affirms not to have been given nor a glass of water during several hours.
The assailant was later caught by the authorities where he would have been in sight of Kate. "It was as traumatic as being raped." I began to cry hysterically, "Six hours earlier, this man had raped me," he told the newspaper Mirror .
It took 18 months for the perpetrator to be brought to court, and while he was entitled to legal aid, he had to use Pro Bono Portugal, a group of volunteer lawyers who offer advice to those who can not afford it. She and her family only met the lawyer two hours before the case came to the Lagos Court in October 2018. The man was sentenced to suspended and to pay damages that Kate claims to have donated to a Portuguese charity. According to the British newspaper Mirror, the young woman was horrified when Tiago Curado de Sousa left the court arm in arm with the woman. According to the young woman, months of therapy, nightmares and the difficulty of returning to work followed. Kate plans to appeal the judgment of Curado de Sousa.
++++++++++++++++++++
Please note most sentences which are under 5 years are suspended in Portugal. There is normally an order for the assailant to pay the victim, on a monthly basis.
The maximum sentence Kate McCann could have got for body occultation was 2 years. She could hardly have been ordered to pay monthly compensation to Madeleine,
She would have walked away as free as a bird.
Unless her lawyer was a total dumbwit, he should have instructed her of these simple facts. Her book "madeleine" implies otherwise.
Alzejur was/is a favourite holiday resort of the then British Prime Minister, David Cameron.
Why do you think it is appropriate for an innocent person to say they are guilty of something they did not do? which raises two questions for me ...
what about the actual perpetrator/s?
what about the missing child?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 25, 2019, 03:05:42 PM
Kate Juby, 24, was raped by a motor-vehicle driver in April 2017 when she took a ride on the 33-year-old man. The young woman was in Portugal not only to know the Portuguese culture, but also to go to a music festival near Aljezur, in the Algarve.
Now, almost two years after the rape and four months after the sentence of the offender - sentenced at the Lagos Court to four years and six months suspended sentence - the young woman decided to divulge what happened and says she does not want any another woman faces the same ordeal in the hands of the Portuguese legal system.
Read more in: https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/turista-britanica-violada-em-portugal-quebra-o-anonimato-para-mudar-o-system-juridico-portugues?ref=HP_Destaque
After the attack, she managed to escape to the main road for help. A German couple rescued her, covered her with a blanket, and took care of her until the police arrived. When she arrived at the hospital, Kate claims that the treatment she received was another nightmare: "They put me in a bed and took all my clothes." The doctor told me to stop crying and that I needed to grow up. arm and injected me with two liquids that I did not know what they were. " The woman claims that they subsequently took blood samples from her and did the harvest to collect DNA while telling her not to cry. "The doctor was very cruel to me. It was horrible," he says. The injections were antiretrovirals - used to suppress HIV - and antibiotics. The young woman will also have received emergency contraceptive pills. It followed the Judicial Police of Portimão where Kate affirms not to have been given nor a glass of water during several hours.
The assailant was later caught by the authorities where he would have been in sight of Kate. "It was as traumatic as being raped." I began to cry hysterically, "Six hours earlier, this man had raped me," he told the newspaper Mirror .
It took 18 months for the perpetrator to be brought to court, and while he was entitled to legal aid, he had to use Pro Bono Portugal, a group of volunteer lawyers who offer advice to those who can not afford it. She and her family only met the lawyer two hours before the case came to the Lagos Court in October 2018. The man was sentenced to suspended and to pay damages that Kate claims to have donated to a Portuguese charity. According to the British newspaper Mirror, the young woman was horrified when Tiago Curado de Sousa left the court arm in arm with the woman. According to the young woman, months of therapy, nightmares and the difficulty of returning to work followed. Kate plans to appeal the judgment of Curado de Sousa.
++++++++++++++++++++
Please note most sentences which are under 5 years are suspended in Portugal. There is normally an order for the assailant to pay the victim, on a monthly basis.
The maximum sentence Kate McCann could have got for body occultation was 2 years. She could hardly have been ordered to pay monthly compensation to Madeleine,
She would have walked away as free as a bird.
Unless her lawyer was a total dumbwit, he should have instructed her of these simple facts. Her book "madeleine" implies otherwise.
Alzejur was/is a favourite holiday resort of the then British Prime Minister, David Cameron.
Do you happen to know if the under 5 years suspended sentence rule applied back in 2007?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 25, 2019, 04:07:23 PM
Kate Juby, 24, was raped by a motor-vehicle driver in April 2017 when she took a ride on the 33-year-old man. The young woman was in Portugal not only to know the Portuguese culture, but also to go to a music festival near Aljezur, in the Algarve.
Now, almost two years after the rape and four months after the sentence of the offender - sentenced at the Lagos Court to four years and six months suspended sentence - the young woman decided to divulge what happened and says she does not want any another woman faces the same ordeal in the hands of the Portuguese legal system.
Read more in: https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/turista-britanica-violada-em-portugal-quebra-o-anonimato-para-mudar-o-system-juridico-portugues?ref=HP_Destaque
After the attack, she managed to escape to the main road for help. A German couple rescued her, covered her with a blanket, and took care of her until the police arrived. When she arrived at the hospital, Kate claims that the treatment she received was another nightmare: "They put me in a bed and took all my clothes." The doctor told me to stop crying and that I needed to grow up. arm and injected me with two liquids that I did not know what they were. " The woman claims that they subsequently took blood samples from her and did the harvest to collect DNA while telling her not to cry. "The doctor was very cruel to me. It was horrible," he says. The injections were antiretrovirals - used to suppress HIV - and antibiotics. The young woman will also have received emergency contraceptive pills. It followed the Judicial Police of Portimão where Kate affirms not to have been given nor a glass of water during several hours.
The assailant was later caught by the authorities where he would have been in sight of Kate. "It was as traumatic as being raped." I began to cry hysterically, "Six hours earlier, this man had raped me," he told the newspaper Mirror .
It took 18 months for the perpetrator to be brought to court, and while he was entitled to legal aid, he had to use Pro Bono Portugal, a group of volunteer lawyers who offer advice to those who can not afford it. She and her family only met the lawyer two hours before the case came to the Lagos Court in October 2018. The man was sentenced to suspended and to pay damages that Kate claims to have donated to a Portuguese charity. According to the British newspaper Mirror, the young woman was horrified when Tiago Curado de Sousa left the court arm in arm with the woman. According to the young woman, months of therapy, nightmares and the difficulty of returning to work followed. Kate plans to appeal the judgment of Curado de Sousa.
++++++++++++++++++++
Please note most sentences which are under 5 years are suspended in Portugal. There is normally an order for the assailant to pay the victim, on a monthly basis.
The maximum sentence Kate McCann could have got for body occultation was 2 years. She could hardly have been ordered to pay monthly compensation to Madeleine,
She would have walked away as free as a bird.
Unless her lawyer was a total dumbwit, he should have instructed her of these simple facts. Her book "madeleine" implies otherwise.
Alzejur was/is a favourite holiday resort of the then British Prime Minister, David Cameron.
What a disgusting excuse fir a justice system when a crime such as this only attracts a suspended sentence...
A British fan convicted of football hooliganism was jailed for two years in Portugal... Does sil have a cite for his claim...or us it just made up
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 25, 2019, 05:58:12 PM
Kate Juby, 24, was raped by a motor-vehicle driver in April 2017 when she took a ride on the 33-year-old man. The young woman was in Portugal not only to know the Portuguese culture, but also to go to a music festival near Aljezur, in the Algarve.
Now, almost two years after the rape and four months after the sentence of the offender - sentenced at the Lagos Court to four years and six months suspended sentence - the young woman decided to divulge what happened and says she does not want any another woman faces the same ordeal in the hands of the Portuguese legal system.
Read more in: https://www.cmjornal.pt/portugal/detalhe/turista-britanica-violada-em-portugal-quebra-o-anonimato-para-mudar-o-system-juridico-portugues?ref=HP_Destaque
After the attack, she managed to escape to the main road for help. A German couple rescued her, covered her with a blanket, and took care of her until the police arrived. When she arrived at the hospital, Kate claims that the treatment she received was another nightmare: "They put me in a bed and took all my clothes." The doctor told me to stop crying and that I needed to grow up. arm and injected me with two liquids that I did not know what they were. " The woman claims that they subsequently took blood samples from her and did the harvest to collect DNA while telling her not to cry. "The doctor was very cruel to me. It was horrible," he says. The injections were antiretrovirals - used to suppress HIV - and antibiotics. The young woman will also have received emergency contraceptive pills. It followed the Judicial Police of Portimão where Kate affirms not to have been given nor a glass of water during several hours.
The assailant was later caught by the authorities where he would have been in sight of Kate. "It was as traumatic as being raped." I began to cry hysterically, "Six hours earlier, this man had raped me," he told the newspaper Mirror .
It took 18 months for the perpetrator to be brought to court, and while he was entitled to legal aid, he had to use Pro Bono Portugal, a group of volunteer lawyers who offer advice to those who can not afford it. She and her family only met the lawyer two hours before the case came to the Lagos Court in October 2018. The man was sentenced to suspended and to pay damages that Kate claims to have donated to a Portuguese charity. According to the British newspaper Mirror, the young woman was horrified when Tiago Curado de Sousa left the court arm in arm with the woman. According to the young woman, months of therapy, nightmares and the difficulty of returning to work followed. Kate plans to appeal the judgment of Curado de Sousa.
++++++++++++++++++++
Please note most sentences which are under 5 years are suspended in Portugal. There is normally an order for the assailant to pay the victim, on a monthly basis.
The maximum sentence Kate McCann could have got for body occultation was 2 years. She could hardly have been ordered to pay monthly compensation to Madeleine,
She would have walked away as free as a bird.
Unless her lawyer was a total dumbwit, he should have instructed her of these simple facts. Her book "madeleine" implies otherwise.
Alzejur was/is a favourite holiday resort of the then British Prime Minister, David Cameron.
Good old Portuguese justice system, ain’t it grand?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 25, 2019, 06:00:39 PM
Do you happen to know if the under 5 years suspended sentence rule applied back in 2007?
AFAIK, yes, which is why the incident of the alleged deal allegedly offered to Kate sounds like a crock of poo to me. The whole incident comes across as entirely dodgy, to me.
In another case in Portugal, where a woman was found entombed in a pillar, the suspect could not be charged with anything significant, because there is a time limit of 15 years for bringing a murder charge.
So after 3 May 2022, even if it was felt the McCanns had murdered Madeleine, no charges would be brought, at least within Portugal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 26, 2019, 10:49:30 AM
How do know they are innocent? As you don't, your message is simply propaganda.
I'm going with that bothersome trifle so abhorred by some ... The Presumption of Innocence ... so until evidence is found to enable anyone to be charged with an offence, taken to court and tried as far as I am concerned the only mouthpiece actively spouting propaganda in this case is yours.
You after all are the one who established a blog to express your point of view
Dictionary result for propaganda /prɒpəˈɡandə/Submit noun 1. information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view. "he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda" synonyms: information, promotion, advertising, advertisement, publicity, advocacy; spin, newspeak, agitprop, disinformation, counter-information, brainwashing, indoctrination, the big lie; informalinfo, hype, plugging "regulations restricting political propaganda were relaxed"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 26, 2019, 11:38:09 AM
I'm going with that bothersome trifle so abhorred by some ... The Presumption of Innocence ... so until evidence is found to enable anyone to be charged with an offence, taken to court and tried as far as I am concerned the only mouthpiece actively spouting propaganda in this case is yours.
You after all are the one who established a blog to express your point of view
Dictionary result for propaganda /prɒpəˈɡandə/Submit noun 1. information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view. "he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda" synonyms: information, promotion, advertising, advertisement, publicity, advocacy; spin, newspeak, agitprop, disinformation, counter-information, brainwashing, indoctrination, the big lie; informalinfo, hype, plugging "regulations restricting political propaganda were relaxed"
The reason for establishing my blog was quite different, but I fail to see the relevance, so I won't bore you.
My blog takes no stance on who, or even if, there is a guilty party in Madeleine's disappearance. I am currently conducting several large and long experiments on Woke and Wandered. My blog readers will then get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Consequently, your allegation is baseless.
I don't feel the need to filter everything through a Kate and Gerry view, so 'presumption of innocence' is irrelevant. I haven't ever declared them to be guilty of anything, beyond the known faulty parenting arrangement, when multiple better options existed. That has been established a long time ago.
If my experiments provide more information on "Woke and Wandered", that is progress for Madeleine. It won't help Kate and Gerry one jot.
Your remit is as flawed as Operation Grange's.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 26, 2019, 12:23:05 PM
So a comment like "Does sil have a cite for his claim...or us it just made up" is both goading and stupid.
So do you have a cite. ...either you have a cite or it's your opinion.. You were quoting 4 years before... A, suspended sentence for a violent rape is an absolute disgrace. .di you not agree
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 26, 2019, 12:35:58 PM
So do you have a cite. ...either you have a cite or it's your opinion.. You were quoting 4 years before... A, suspended sentence for a violent rape is an absolute disgrace. .di you not agree
I posted the link. End of.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 26, 2019, 12:55:24 PM
You have given no cite as usual... To support your claim that sentences up to 5 yrs are generally suspended...so I can only assume it is not true... As I posted a two year case which resulted in custody
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 26, 2019, 12:58:25 PM
You have given no cite as usual... To support your claim that sentences up to 5 yrs are generally suspended...so I can only assume it is not true... As I posted a two year case which resulted in custody
No cite Davel?
I will leave you to your assumptions.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 26, 2019, 01:00:08 PM
The reason for establishing my blog was quite different, but I fail to see the relevance, so I won't bore you.
My blog takes no stance on who, or even if, there is a guilty party in Madeleine's disappearance. I am currently conducting several large and long experiments on Woke and Wandered. My blog readers will then get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Consequently, your allegation is baseless.
I don't feel the need to filter everything through a Kate and Gerry view, so 'presumption of innocence' is irrelevant. I haven't ever declared them to be guilty of anything, beyond the known faulty parenting arrangement, when multiple better options existed. That has been established a long time ago.
If my experiments provide more information on "Woke and Wandered", that is progress for Madeleine. It won't help Kate and Gerry one jot.
Your remit is as flawed as Operation Grange's.
You accuse me of "propaganda" while deriding and challenging the presumption of innocence in your posts. I fail entirely to have any idea what you presume my "remit" is ... please be kind enough to explain what you mean.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 26, 2019, 01:51:12 PM
The reason for establishing my blog was quite different, but I fail to see the relevance, so I won't bore you.
My blog takes no stance on who, or even if, there is a guilty party in Madeleine's disappearance. I am currently conducting several large and long experiments on Woke and Wandered. My blog readers will then get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Consequently, your allegation is baseless.
I don't feel the need to filter everything through a Kate and Gerry view, so 'presumption of innocence' is irrelevant. I haven't ever declared them to be guilty of anything, beyond the known faulty parenting arrangement, when multiple better options existed. That has been established a long time ago.
If my experiments provide more information on "Woke and Wandered", that is progress for Madeleine. It won't help Kate and Gerry one jot.
Your remit is as flawed as Operation Grange's.
I can't see your experiments being any help to Madeleine but any help to Madeleine would be help to Kate and Gerry
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 26, 2019, 02:22:32 PM
I can't see your experiments being any help to Madeleine but any help to Madeleine would be help to Kate and Gerry
Oh I don't think so.... If woke and wandered is established then Kate and Gerry have a lot to answer to IMO. I would be looking at a few things which should have been discussed many years ago instead of the propaganda about an abductor entering and leaving via a window with a child...
The tapas stories would have to be forensically investigated (word by word)- especially Kate and Gerry's
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 26, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
Oh I don't think so.... If woke and wandered is established then Kate and Gerry have a lot to answer to IMO. I would be looking at a few things which should have been discussed many years ago instead of the propaganda about an abductor entering and leaving via a window with a child...
The tapas stories would have to be forensically investigated (word by word)- especially Kate and Gerry's
Really... If woke and wandered was established it would make amaral look a bit of a Charlie and at least give the McCann's some closure
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 26, 2019, 02:44:08 PM
Really... If woke and wandered was established it would make amaral look a bit of a Charlie and at least give the McCann's some closure
I don't think so. It would call out the McCanns and why they made claims .... The McCanns have moved on and got a new life.
Amaral will not be affected either way- He won a law suit by the highest court in the land! by those two. He along with other police offered a thesis, nothing more than that. He did offer another one about MBM involved in an accident...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 26, 2019, 02:59:03 PM
I don't think so. It would call out the McCanns and why they made claims .... The McCanns have moved on and got a new life.
Amaral will not be affected either way- He won a law suit by the highest court in the land! by those two. He along with other police offered a thesis, nothing more than that. He did offer another one about MBM involved in an accident...
I m sure you understand I disagree with just about everything you have posted but can't be bothered to discuss it any further... It's the sort of argument that would win the jackpot on pointless
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on February 26, 2019, 03:14:06 PM
I m sure you understand I disagree with just about everything you have posted but can't be bothered to discuss it any further... It's the sort of argument that would win the jackpot on pointless
I do understand that you claim there is evidence of an abductor who stole MBM from the bedroom. I asked you to share this evidence and you can't, because, well... there is none.
I have no issue with you or anyone else disagreeing with me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 26, 2019, 04:58:56 PM
I do understand that you claim there is evidence of an abductor who stole MBM from the bedroom. I asked you to share this evidence and you can't, because, well... there is none.
I have no issue with you or anyone else disagreeing with me.
No you dint understand... I never claimed evidence of abductor... Although kates statement is admissible evidence..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 26, 2019, 06:25:18 PM
Oh I don't think so.... If woke and wandered is established then Kate and Gerry have a lot to answer to IMO. I would be looking at a few things which should have been discussed many years ago instead of the propaganda about an abductor entering and leaving via a window with a child...
The tapas stories would have to be forensically investigated (word by word)- especially Kate and Gerry's
If it were proved that Madeleine woke and wandered alot of Dog Supporters would be feeling somewhat sheepish!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 26, 2019, 08:32:41 PM
How will anyone prove woke & wander in the first place?
Anyone who believes “dogs don’t lie” couldn’t possibly entertain the idea, yet strangely there seem to be some sceptics who are coming round to the idea as they believe woke and wandered is still grounds for charging the McCanns. I can’t quite figure out how or why... *%87
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 27, 2019, 07:17:42 AM
Anyone who believes “dogs don’t lie” couldn’t possibly entertain the idea, yet strangely there seem to be some sceptics who are coming round to the idea as they believe woke and wandered is still grounds for charging the McCanns. I can’t quite figure out how or why... *%87
Woje, wandered, accidental death, found and returned ro 5A.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 27, 2019, 07:24:49 AM
There is not enough time for all those things to have happened and for cadaver odour to have developed. Think about it.
There isn't... And it throws into doubt the validity of the dogs evidence... CMMOM realise death on 3 may does not fit with the dogs etc and have bizarrely decided Maddie died the previous sunday
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 27, 2019, 09:46:29 AM
There isn't... And it throws into doubt the validity of the dogs evidence... CMMOM realise death on 3 may does not fit with the dogs etc and have bizarrely decided Maddie died the previous sunday
We have from 5.30 to at the earliest 10pm for cadever odour to develop. Even if it was a much slimmer timeframe there is no peer reviewed research that I know of that has definitively found the rate at which cadaver odour develops in a child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 27, 2019, 10:32:15 AM
We have from 5.30 to at the earliest 10pm for cadever odour to develop. Even if it was a much slimmer timeframe there is no peer reviewed research that I know of that has definitively found the rate at which cadaver odour develops in a child.
Whilst I have nothing definitive on child cadaver odour, I am not sure it is relevant.
Both Eddie and Keela alerted to the car fob, and that material was attributed to Gerry. Both dogs alert to blood. I don't see much relevance in the dog findings, based on material documented in the PJ Files.
For the moment, I am simply studying Woke and Wandered from the viewpoint of a corpse lying on the surface of the Algarve. All I can say thus far is that there are no obvious signs to attract attention. But it is still early days.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 27, 2019, 11:01:04 AM
Whilst I have nothing definitive on child cadaver odour, I am not sure it is relevant.
Both Eddie and Keela alerted to the car fob, and that material was attributed to Gerry. Both dogs alert to blood. I don't see much relevance in the dog findings, based on material documented in the PJ Files.
For the moment, I am simply studying Woke and Wandered from the viewpoint of a corpse lying on the surface of the Algarve. All I can say thus far is that there are no obvious signs to attract attention. But it is still early days.
I think it is highly relevant that Eddie alerted in the parent’s bedroom but Keela didn’t.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 27, 2019, 11:23:28 AM
I think it is highly relevant that Eddie alerted in the parent’s bedroom but Keela didn’t.
OK, thanks for the clarification. I understand your point.
I hope you will not be annoyed if I disagree with your opinion.
The dog searches were conducted months after Madeleine disappeared, which is very definitely long enough for cadaver odour to develop from blood.
As to the bedroom alert, Grime explains it as possible pooling.
I am very definitely not impressed by Mr Grime's conduct of the searches nor his explanation thereof.
Based on the information I have to date, were the McCanns to be hauled up in court on such evidence, I would feel obliged to testify in their defence, at least on this aspect. My view may change if fresh evidence comes to light about this consideration.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on February 27, 2019, 11:41:27 AM
OK, thanks for the clarification. I understand your point.
I hope you will not be annoyed if I disagree with your opinion.
The dog searches were conducted months after Madeleine disappeared, which is very definitely long enough for cadaver odour to develop from blood.
As to the bedroom alert, Grime explains it as possible pooling.
I am very definitely not impressed by Mr Grime's conduct of the searches nor his explanation thereof.
Based on the information I have to date, were the McCanns to be hauled up in court on such evidence, I would feel obliged to testify in their defence, at least on this aspect. My view may change if fresh evidence comes to light about this consideration.
I can think of no reason why you would be asked to testify.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 27, 2019, 11:54:16 AM
OK, thanks for the clarification. I understand your point.
I hope you will not be annoyed if I disagree with your opinion.
The dog searches were conducted months after Madeleine disappeared, which is very definitely long enough for cadaver odour to develop from blood.
As to the bedroom alert, Grime explains it as possible pooling.
I am very definitely not impressed by Mr Grime's conduct of the searches nor his explanation thereof.
Based on the information I have to date, were the McCanns to be hauled up in court on such evidence, I would feel obliged to testify in their defence, at least on this aspect. My view may change if fresh evidence comes to light about this consideration.
probably best not to have you testify re anything.....blood does not produce cadaver odour...this was shown with references some time ago......if you dont agree ...cite for blood producing cadaver odour
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 27, 2019, 12:53:39 PM
OK, thanks for the clarification. I understand your point.
I hope you will not be annoyed if I disagree with your opinion.
The dog searches were conducted months after Madeleine disappeared, which is very definitely long enough for cadaver odour to develop from blood.
As to the bedroom alert, Grime explains it as possible pooling.
I am very definitely not impressed by Mr Grime's conduct of the searches nor his explanation thereof.
Based on the information I have to date, were the McCanns to be hauled up in court on such evidence, I would feel obliged to testify in their defence, at least on this aspect. My view may change if fresh evidence comes to light about this consideration.
I don’t mind if you disagree at all...it all makes for robust debate.
As to pooling I very much doubt Grime was alluding to pooling in one room from another, especially a room so far from the presumed source of the blood, the area behind the couch.
‘ If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.’
Note...in this room ie the bedroom.
Two further points. Neither you nor I have the expertise to judge Grimes conduct of nor explanation of the dog searches. He is the expert. Further I have never heard that the scent of blood could change over time to cadaver odour. Do you have a cite ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 27, 2019, 01:05:27 PM
probably best not to have you testify re anything.....blood does not produce cadaver odour...this was shown with references some time ago......if you dont agree ...cite for blood producing cadaver odour
Grime.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 27, 2019, 01:17:07 PM
I don’t mind if you disagree at all...it all makes for robust debate.
As to pooling I very much doubt Grime was alluding to pooling in one room from another, especially a room so far from the presumed source of the blood, the area behind the couch.
‘ If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.’
Note...in this room ie the bedroom.
Two further points. Neither you nor I have the expertise to judge Grimes conduct of nor explanation of the dog searches. He is the expert. Further I have never heard that the scent of blood could change over time to cadaver odour. Do you have a cite ?
[/color]
theres no cite...it isnt true..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 27, 2019, 01:28:16 PM
I don’t mind if you disagree at all...it all makes for robust debate.
As to pooling I very much doubt Grime was alluding to pooling in one room from another, especially a room so far from the presumed source of the blood, the area behind the couch.
‘ If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.’
Note...in this room ie the bedroom.
Two further points. Neither you nor I have the expertise to judge Grimes conduct of nor explanation of the dog searches. He is the expert. Further I have never heard that the scent of blood could change over time to cadaver odour. Do you have a cite ?
I think its quite valid to question grime...as elements of teh PJ did...his idea of scent pooling makes no scientific scent...but he is not a scientist...scent will move and dissipate randomly
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 27, 2019, 01:30:14 PM
no he didnt...provide a cite...if blood produced cadaverine then all cadaver dogs would react to blood..they dont..simple
so..cite for Grime...you have totally misunderstood what grime said....
Cadaver dogs do react to blood, that is why a blood dog such as Keela was needed.
Both Keela and Eddie alerted to the area behind the couch....blood contamination possible. Only Eddie alerted in the bedroom....cadaver scent contamination likely.
You see how it works ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 27, 2019, 01:37:36 PM
I don’t mind if you disagree at all...it all makes for robust debate.
As to pooling I very much doubt Grime was alluding to pooling in one room from another, especially a room so far from the presumed source of the blood, the area behind the couch.
‘ If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.’
Note...in this room ie the bedroom.
Two further points. Neither you nor I have the expertise to judge Grimes conduct of nor explanation of the dog searches. He is the expert. Further I have never heard that the scent of blood could change over time to cadaver odour. Do you have a cite ?
Cite is Grime. Eddie and Keela both alerted to the key fob. The FSS found Gerry's DNA. Gerry is not dead.
Grime's video shows him pricking his finger for a sample of blood, then hiding it. Keela finds it and alerts to it.
Beyond that, it proves little. I have no idea if Keela was trained or tested exclusively on human blood.
The following is a true story.
Our neighbour presented us with a gift two days ago. It was a dead chicken, but still warm- It's head had been removed, but otherwise it was entire, needing gutting and plucking. Personally, I don't own a knife sharp enough to butcher a chicken.
So here's a question. Would Keela have alerted to the chicken? How would you train it to ignore a dead chicken?
By the way, my cadaver dog barks at lots of things he finds interesting. And he lies with as many teeth as he has in his head.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 27, 2019, 01:40:56 PM
Cite is Grime. Eddie and Keela both alerted to the key fob. The FSS found Gerry's DNA. Gerry is not dead.
Grime's video shows him pricking his finger for a sample of blood, then hiding it. Keela finds it and alerts to it.
Beyond that, it proves little. I have no idea if Keela was trained or tested exclusively on human blood.
The following is a true story.
Our neighbour presented us with a gift two days ago. It was a dead chicken, but still warm- It's head had been removed, but otherwise it was entire, needing gutting and plucking. Personally, I don't own a knife sharp enough to butcher a chicken.
So here's a question. Would Keela have alerted to the chicken? How would you train it to ignore a dead chicken?
By the way, my cadaver dog barks at lots of things he finds interesting. And he lies with as many teeth as he has in his head.
as I said you dont understand....eddie was not just a cadaver dog...he was a blood dog as well...that was his problem...true cadaver dogs do not react to blood...its a shame you wont be called to give evidence..it would be hilarious
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 27, 2019, 01:52:42 PM
Cadaver dogs do react to blood, that is why a blood dog such as Keela was needed.
Both Keela and Eddie alerted to the area behind the couch....blood contamination possible. Only Eddie alerted in the bedroom....cadaver scent contamination likely.
You see how it works ?
It is obviously too simple for many to understand *%87
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 27, 2019, 01:57:32 PM
Cite is Grime. Eddie and Keela both alerted to the key fob. The FSS found Gerry's DNA. Gerry is not dead.
Grime's video shows him pricking his finger for a sample of blood, then hiding it. Keela finds it and alerts to it.
Beyond that, it proves little. I have no idea if Keela was trained or tested exclusively on human blood.
The following is a true story.
Our neighbour presented us with a gift two days ago. It was a dead chicken, but still warm- It's head had been removed, but otherwise it was entire, needing gutting and plucking. Personally, I don't own a knife sharp enough to butcher a chicken.
So here's a question. Would Keela have alerted to the chicken? How would you train it to ignore a dead chicken?
By the way, my cadaver dog barks at lots of things he finds interesting. And he lies with as many teeth as he has in his head.
Keela alerts to blood. Eddie alerts to blood and cadaver odour. If Keela doesn’t alert and Eddie does then it is likely it is to cadaver odour. Therefore as both dogs alerted to the key fob the material on the key fob was likely to be blood.
‘The second dog that we've seen work today is the crime scene dog Keela. She will only indicate to me when she has found human blood, only human blood and it is only blood and there must be something there physically for her to be able to alert to me that's she has actually found something’
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 27, 2019, 01:57:51 PM
Cadaver dogs do react to blood, that is why a blood dog such as Keela was needed.
Both Keela and Eddie alerted to the area behind the couch....blood contamination possible. Only Eddie alerted in the bedroom....cadaver scent contamination likely.
You see how it works ?
I see how it works but you dont...cite for cadaver scent likely....there isnt one.....its cadaver scent possible.....do you see now..thats where almost every sceptic gets it wrong
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 27, 2019, 02:00:08 PM
Keela alerts to blood. Eddie alerts to blood and cadaver odour. If Keela doesn’t alert and Eddie does then it is likely it is to cadaver odour. Therefore as both dogs alerted to the key fob the material on the key fob was likely to be blood.
‘The second dog that we've seen work today is the crime scene dog Keela. She will only indicate to me when she has found human blood, only human blood and it is only blood and there must be something there physically for her to be able to alert to me that's she has actually found something’
as I said ....cadaver scent likely is an invention by the sceptics...there is simply no truth in it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 27, 2019, 02:05:11 PM
OK, thanks for the clarification. I understand your point.
I hope you will not be annoyed if I disagree with your opinion.
The dog searches were conducted months after Madeleine disappeared, which is very definitely long enough for cadaver odour to develop from blood.
As to the bedroom alert, Grime explains it as possible pooling.
I am very definitely not impressed by Mr Grime's conduct of the searches nor his explanation thereof.
Based on the information I have to date, were the McCanns to be hauled up in court on such evidence, I would feel obliged to testify in their defence, at least on this aspect. My view may change if fresh evidence comes to light about this consideration.
Grime was under the impression 5A had been closed off as a crime scene since the McCanns occupancy; it had not. Eddie did not alert to another source in the bedroom, so impossible for anyone to be precise about the origin of any odour. Eddie was trained on decomposing piglets ergo he would have alerted to blood from them in the same way he alerted to human blood. Keela, however, would not have alerted to porcine blood having been trained solely on human blood.....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 27, 2019, 02:14:39 PM
It is the truth. That you refuse to acknowledge it is your problem.
This belief is the core of sceptic belief......and its incorrect....LOL
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on February 27, 2019, 03:45:14 PM
UK Justice Forum » Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults » Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. » General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Try and keep to the thread topic please.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 27, 2019, 04:14:16 PM
UK Justice Forum » Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults » Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. » General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Try and keep to the thread topic please.
Are you trying to kill what little discussion there is.. Lol... Fine I'm off
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on February 27, 2019, 05:46:50 PM
Cadaver dogs do react to blood, that is why a blood dog such as Keela was needed.
Both Keela and Eddie alerted to the area behind the couch....blood contamination possible. Only Eddie alerted in the bedroom....cadaver scent contamination likely.
You see how it works ?
Not really as cadaver dogs would also alert to something that had blood on it and had been taken away, the scent would remain. Keela wouldn't only alert to blood that was there.
Other families had stayed in 5a before the dogs were brought in, it is possible that bloody clothes had been in that area eg wardrobe and then taken away, Eddie would alert to the scent that remained.
While on the subject of what the dogs alerted to, do you find it strange that if it was blood under the tile behind the sofa, that only a tiny bit was found? None found in the grout either strange. IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 27, 2019, 08:21:21 PM
If Keela doesn't alert and Eddie does in suspected murder cases then of course the police believe there was a body after ruling out other possibilities. Eddie alerted in the Prout case with no forensics and the police working on it believed there definitely was a body to be found. The millions spent on this case suggests the same.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 27, 2019, 08:32:30 PM
Grime was under the impression 5A had been closed off as a crime scene since the McCanns occupancy; it had not. Eddie did not alert to another source in the bedroom, so impossible for anyone to be precise about the origin of any odour. Eddie was trained on decomposing piglets ergo he would have alerted to blood from them in the same way he alerted to human blood. Keela, however, would not have alerted to porcine blood having been trained solely on human blood.....
Cite for your first claim?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 27, 2019, 09:14:44 PM
What we have to be able to understand in a situation such as this is in a hot climate with the apartment being closed down, the scent will build up in a particular area. If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 27, 2019, 10:03:56 PM
We have from 5.30 to at the earliest 10pm for cadever odour to develop. Even if it was a much slimmer timeframe there is no peer reviewed research that I know of that has definitively found the rate at which cadaver odour develops in a child.
The child would not have woke and wandered before going to bed, falling asleep andher parents leaving the apartment surely?!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 27, 2019, 10:09:40 PM
Provide some expert opinion that contradicts mine then.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 27, 2019, 11:07:11 PM
Most expert opinion I’ve seen suggests it takes a minimum 90 minutes before a body starts to emit cadaver odour. Let’s say that for a child it is only 60 minutes (apparently the process is quicker in children though no one has yet provided a cite for this afaik). So given that the McCanns left the apartment at 8.30 at what time do dog supporters suppose Madeleine woke up and wandered? Where did she wander to exactly and what accident befell her? What time was her body found and where was it moved to? If it was moved again, then at what time was that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 28, 2019, 01:43:57 AM
What we have to be able to understand in a situation such as this is in a hot climate with the apartment being closed down, the scent will build up in a particular area. If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner. But strong indication and I would say its positive for things that he is trained to find, which will be part of a separate debrief.
From what he says here I think it is irrefutable that Martin Grime was under the impression that the crime scene had been locked down after Madeleine's disappearance. I doubt he would have used that description of scent pooling had he known that business as usual had been allowed and that various families had occupied it since Madeleine went missing. Ruling out Grime's appraisal of the hot climate in combination with the closed down apartment would allow the scent to remain undisturbed ... hence the dog alert.
It is an entirely different scenario from families living daily in the apartment. Coming and going ~ opening doors ~ opening windows ~ cooking ~ eating takeaways ~ cleaning schedules while occupied and deep clean schedules between occupations. Making it impossible to determine what exactly it was that excited the excitable dog into barking.
Snip The blunder was revealed in the extensive 30,000 page police dossier into the investigation.
Details of all those who stayed in 5A after the McCanns were disclosed in an internal document written by Chief Inspector Vitor Matos to Goncalo Amaral, who was then leading the investigation. - After the disappearance apartment 5 A was occupied by the following individuals: 12-06-2007 - 19-06-2007 by R and F. F****** (friends of the owners), from 28-06-2007 - 12-07-2007 by SR, W & CF, 12-07-2007 to 19-07-2007 by BSP and JFP, 19-07-2007 - 26-07-07 by MMS family. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DCCB_LETTER.htm
On June 12, a couple from Liverpool who were friends of the owner, retired teacher Ruth McCann - who is no relation to Kate and Gerry McCann - stayed in 5A for a week.
A family of four from Falkirk in Scotland stayed from June 28 to July 12, followed by a couple from New Barnet in Hertfordshire.
On July 19, a family of three from Leicester stayed for a week.
It is highly probable that Martin Grime had no idea of these occupancies since it seems the McCanns were made arguidos prior to the judicial police locating evidence which justified it as the dates from the files would indicate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 28, 2019, 12:01:28 PM
From what he says here I think it is irrefutable that Martin Grime was under the impression that the crime scene had been locked down after Madeleine's disappearance. I doubt he would have used that description of scent pooling had he known that business as usual had been allowed and that various families had occupied it since Madeleine went missing. Ruling out Grime's appraisal of the hot climate in combination with the closed down apartment would allow the scent to remain undisturbed ... hence the dog alert.
It is an entirely different scenario from families living daily in the apartment. Coming and going ~ opening doors ~ opening windows ~ cooking ~ eating takeaways ~ cleaning schedules while occupied and deep clean schedules between occupations. Making it impossible to determine what exactly it was that excited the excitable dog into barking.
Snip The blunder was revealed in the extensive 30,000 page police dossier into the investigation.
Details of all those who stayed in 5A after the McCanns were disclosed in an internal document written by Chief Inspector Vitor Matos to Goncalo Amaral, who was then leading the investigation. - After the disappearance apartment 5 A was occupied by the following individuals: 12-06-2007 - 19-06-2007 by R and F. F****** (friends of the owners), from 28-06-2007 - 12-07-2007 by SR, W & CF, 12-07-2007 to 19-07-2007 by BSP and JFP, 19-07-2007 - 26-07-07 by MMS family. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DCCB_LETTER.htm
On June 12, a couple from Liverpool who were friends of the owner, retired teacher Ruth McCann - who is no relation to Kate and Gerry McCann - stayed in 5A for a week.
A family of four from Falkirk in Scotland stayed from June 28 to July 12, followed by a couple from New Barnet in Hertfordshire.
On July 19, a family of three from Leicester stayed for a week.
It is highly probable that Martin Grime had no idea of these occupancies since it seems the McCanns were made arguidos prior to the judicial police locating evidence which justified it as the dates from the files would indicate.
So Grime says that scent pooling occurs when a building is secured. From the information above it’s obvious that the apartment was not secured therefore no scent pooling would have occurred which means that Eddie alerted to exactly what he was trained to alert to in the areas he alerted. Eddie alerts to blood and cadaver scent. Keels didn’t alert to blood in the area and therefore the alert must have been to cadaver scent.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on February 28, 2019, 12:27:57 PM
From what he says here I think it is irrefutable that Martin Grime was under the impression that the crime scene had been locked down after Madeleine's disappearance. I doubt he would have used that description of scent pooling had he known that business as usual had been allowed and that various families had occupied it since Madeleine went missing. Ruling out Grime's appraisal of the hot climate in combination with the closed down apartment would allow the scent to remain undisturbed ... hence the dog alert.
It is an entirely different scenario from families living daily in the apartment. Coming and going ~ opening doors ~ opening windows ~ cooking ~ eating takeaways ~ cleaning schedules while occupied and deep clean schedules between occupations. Making it impossible to determine what exactly it was that excited the excitable dog into barking.
Snip The blunder was revealed in the extensive 30,000 page police dossier into the investigation.
Details of all those who stayed in 5A after the McCanns were disclosed in an internal document written by Chief Inspector Vitor Matos to Goncalo Amaral, who was then leading the investigation. - After the disappearance apartment 5 A was occupied by the following individuals: 12-06-2007 - 19-06-2007 by R and F. F****** (friends of the owners), from 28-06-2007 - 12-07-2007 by SR, W & CF, 12-07-2007 to 19-07-2007 by BSP and JFP, 19-07-2007 - 26-07-07 by MMS family. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DCCB_LETTER.htm
On June 12, a couple from Liverpool who were friends of the owner, retired teacher Ruth McCann - who is no relation to Kate and Gerry McCann - stayed in 5A for a week.
A family of four from Falkirk in Scotland stayed from June 28 to July 12, followed by a couple from New Barnet in Hertfordshire.
On July 19, a family of three from Leicester stayed for a week.
It is highly probable that Martin Grime had no idea of these occupancies since it seems the McCanns were made arguidos prior to the judicial police locating evidence which justified it as the dates from the files would indicate.
I disagree with your first premise. You would need to check with Mr Grime if he thought that to be the case. And whether or not he would have claimed scent pooling under both options.
Personally, I cannot fathom why scent pooling should not have occurred at any time, from before Madeleine's disappearance until Grime's search.
Without that, your post is pure speculation.
There is nothing in the video to suggest to Grime that 5A was sealed off. I am not aware of a case in the UK where a scene of disappearance gets sealed off for that length of time. If you have an example, please enlighten me.
The scene was forensically searched by 3 PJ teams over the 3rd and 4th of May. When it was returned to the owner there was no reason to think a search by English dogs would be conducted some months later.
I can see no reason why Mr Grime should think the apartment had been sealed off.
I have a number of questions for Mr Grime. If you have a contact method for him, please enlighten me.
After all, if I don't ask, I am unlikely to get answers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on February 28, 2019, 01:15:21 PM
I disagree with your first premise. You would need to check with Mr Grime if he thought that to be the case. And whether or not he would have claimed scent pooling under both options.
Personally, I cannot fathom why scent pooling should not have occurred at any time, from before Madeleine's disappearance until Grime's search.
Without that, your post is pure speculation.
There is nothing in the video to suggest to Grime that 5A was sealed off. I am not aware of a case in the UK where a scene of disappearance gets sealed off for that length of time. If you have an example, please enlighten me.
The scene was forensically searched by 3 PJ teams over the 3rd and 4th of May. When it was returned to the owner there was no reason to think a search by English dogs would be conducted some months later.
I can see no reason why Mr Grime should think the apartment had been sealed off.
I have a number of questions for Mr Grime. If you have a contact method for him, please enlighten me.
After all, if I don't ask, I am unlikely to get answers.
According to the files it took the Judicial Police until the end of September to record the details of all the families who had occupied 5A between crime scene restrictions being lifted and the occasion of the canine inspection conducted by Martin Grime.
There is no record that Martin Grime was privy to the information imparted to Amaral a month after the canines had left Luz for Jersey. One may speculate that what Amaral did not know he could hardly be expected to convey to a contractor ... that is if he even thought it appropriate to convey anything at all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 28, 2019, 05:54:46 PM
So Grime says that scent pooling occurs when a building is secured. From the information above it’s obvious that the apartment was not secured therefore no scent pooling would have occurred which means that Eddie alerted to exactly what he was trained to alert to in the areas he alerted. Eddie alerts to blood and cadaver scent. Keels didn’t alert to blood in the area and therefore the alert must have been to cadaver scent.
@)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 28, 2019, 07:59:53 PM
I disagree with your first premise. You would need to check with Mr Grime if he thought that to be the case. And whether or not he would have claimed scent pooling under both options.
Personally, I cannot fathom why scent pooling should not have occurred at any time, from before Madeleine's disappearance until Grime's search.
Without that, your post is pure speculation.
There is nothing in the video to suggest to Grime that 5A was sealed off. I am not aware of a case in the UK where a scene of disappearance gets sealed off for that length of time. If you have an example, please enlighten me.
The scene was forensically searched by 3 PJ teams over the 3rd and 4th of May. When it was returned to the owner there was no reason to think a search by English dogs would be conducted some months later.
I can see no reason why Mr Grime should think the apartment had been sealed off.
I have a number of questions for Mr Grime. If you have a contact method for him, please enlighten me.
After all, if I don't ask, I am unlikely to get answers.
contacting Grime would be extremely easy...but you have not managed to work out how to do it...what does that say about your investigative skills
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 01, 2019, 09:53:33 AM
Then you'll be able to provide those details. And since you haven't, what does it say about you? Typical Davel. *%87
I could probably provide at least four... Let's, start with Google... Which will take you to his Linkedin page... There's, a box entitled... Message Martin... What do you think that does
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 01, 2019, 01:11:40 PM
I could probably provide at least four... Let's, start with Google... Which will take you to his Linkedin page... There's, a box entitled... Message Martin... What do you think that does
As I am not a user of LinkedIn, I can see no such box.
Why do you think I asked in the first place?
By the way, you are doing a Clarence. Private investigation, particularly when OG is active and Porto may or may not, is illegal in Portugal.
Mind you, that leaves the option open to those forum members located in the UK. But from the forum area devoted to Martin Grime, it looks like no-one bothered.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 01, 2019, 01:24:59 PM
As I am not a user of LinkedIn, I can see no such box.
Why do you think I asked in the first place?
By the way, you are doing a Clarence. Private investigation, particularly when OG is active and Porto may or may not, is illegal in Portugal.
Mind you, that leaves the option open to those forum members located in the UK. But from the forum area devoted to Martin Grime, it looks like no-one bothered.
You asked how to contact Grime... Ive told you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 01, 2019, 01:34:47 PM
I think you will find linked in is international... They even have it in portugal
I gave you a simple method to contact grime... If it's beyond you... Nothing more I can do
I did't say LinkedIn was illegal in Portugal, did I? I said private investigation of a crime whilst it is under active police investigation is illegal in Portugal. You are sounding very much like Clarence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 01, 2019, 02:54:21 PM
I did't say LinkedIn was illegal in Portugal, did I? I said private investigation of a crime whilst it is under active police investigation is illegal in Portugal. You are sounding very much like Clarence.
You have probably deduced I am Clarence... You asked for a contact for Grime... I gave you one... Then there's Staffs university... A 2 min search will give you his, email address there
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 01, 2019, 04:26:30 PM
You have probably deduced I am Clarence... You asked for a contact for Grime... I gave you one... Then there's Staffs university... A 2 min search will give you his, email address there
*&(+(+
It may well do, but that is not the point.
Private citizens in Portugal are not permitted to investigate in the face of a live police investigation. And I have no desire to get hauled up by the GNR. That is why certain questions I would like to put to Coronel Sequeira of the GNR need to be stacked up until OG calls it a day.
Gerry appears to have a gatekeeper on his university email address. Perhaps one day I will find out for sure. But probably I won't.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 01, 2019, 04:41:22 PM
Private citizens in Portugal are not permitted to investigate in the face of a live police investigation. And I have no desire to get hauled up by the GNR. That is why certain questions I would like to put to Coronel Sequeira of the GNR need to be stacked up until OG calls it a day.
Gerry appears to have a gatekeeper on his university email address. Perhaps one day I will find out for sure. But probably I won't.
Have you forgotten posting the following yesterday..
I have a number of questions for Mr Grime. If you have a contact method for him, please enlighten me.
After all, if I don't ask, I am unlikely to get answers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 01, 2019, 04:49:28 PM
Private citizens in Portugal are not permitted to investigate in the face of a live police investigation. And I have no desire to get hauled up by the GNR. That is why certain questions I would like to put to Coronel Sequeira of the GNR need to be stacked up until OG calls it a day.
Gerry appears to have a gatekeeper on his university email address. Perhaps one day I will find out for sure. But probably I won't.
So you have emailed Gerry... LOL
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 01, 2019, 04:54:44 PM
The point is: you sought enlightenment and then when it was proffered you rebuffed it. What is YOUR point?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 01, 2019, 06:29:30 PM
Scotland Yard have asked the HO for a years funding to follow a ‘sensitive’ lead, according to Martin Brunt.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 01, 2019, 06:54:05 PM
"Great news for Madeleine McCann's parents because, as each period of funding comes to an end they must fear Scotland Yard is about to pull the plug," Martin Brunt, Sky News crime correspondent, told the channel.
"Clearly, Scotland Yard feels it is worth continuing.
"This development might means there is new confidence there is a breakthrough in the investigation, or this final sensitive theory that they've been pursuing for two years is proving to be more complicated, more sensitive than they thought at the start.
"But clearly officers feel it is worth carrying on with this investigation."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 01, 2019, 07:44:59 PM
"Great news for Madeleine McCann's parents because, as each period of funding comes to an end they must fear Scotland Yard is about to pull the plug," Martin Brunt, Sky News crime correspondent, told the channel.
"Clearly, Scotland Yard feels it is worth continuing.
"This development might means there is new confidence there is a breakthrough in the investigation, or this final sensitive theory that they've been pursuing for two years is proving to be more complicated, more sensitive than they thought at the start.
"But clearly officers feel it is worth carrying on with this investigation."
Very good news.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 01, 2019, 08:07:17 PM
Excellent. OG are obviously on to something.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 01, 2019, 09:16:10 PM
They've been saying that for almost eight years. Operation Grange is a farce imo, it should have been wound up long ago and let the McCanns spend their own money doing what it was intended for in the first place.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 01, 2019, 10:57:36 PM
If the government can casually toss £30 m down the drain as part of their incompetent preparations for a no deal Brexit, I’m sure no one could possibly begrudge an extra £300k being spent on trying to bring closure to this case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on March 02, 2019, 08:37:28 AM
No hope of finding out what happened any time soon then.
I think that is rather a snide remark.
If the police are asking for funding which will cover their work on Madeleine's case for another year it seems obvious that they consider that there is still work to be done on her behalf.
Or do you as a sceptic consider they should just pack up and leave it be ... since it is obvious they are not casting their net in your preferred direction?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 02, 2019, 09:34:29 AM
If the government can casually toss £30 m down the drain as part of their incompetent preparations for a no deal Brexit, I’m sure no one could possibly begrudge an extra £300k being spent on trying to bring closure to this case.
The term for this is a dripping roast.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on March 02, 2019, 09:38:17 AM
No hope of finding out what happened any time soon then.
I totally agree, I think it's time SY answered some very long overdue questions in this case. Even given for a moment there was an outstanding lead worth pursuing, it doesn't take a year to investigate such things. It all sounds very iffy to me given the history and the revelations by former senior officers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 02, 2019, 09:56:33 AM
I totally agree, I think it's time SY answered some very long overdue questions in this case. Even given for a moment there was an outstanding lead worth pursuing, it doesn't take a year to investigate such things. It all sounds very iffy to me given the history and the revelations by former senior officers.
Perhaps Operation Grange would be more forthcoming was there not also an active Portuguese investigation running in parallel and insisting on adherence to Portuguese secrecy laws.
Anyway ... I don't think it is good policing to signal your punches to criminals by keeping them updated on the details of an investigation ... particularly one which seems to be as huge as this one is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2019, 10:00:06 AM
I totally agree, I think it's time SY answered some very long overdue questions in this case. Even given for a moment there was an outstanding lead worth pursuing, it doesn't take a year to investigate such things. It all sounds very iffy to me given the history and the revelations by former senior officers.
colin sutton was told he would not want to head an investigation where he was told of what he could or could not look at...he ASSUMED this referred to the McCanns....it may well have referred to the fact that the investigation was portuguese led and therefore permission was needed from portugal to investigate any suspects....the idea that any evidence against the mccanns would be ordered to be ignored is bizarre imo..from what I can see there si simply no evidence against them as confirmed by P D Carmo...Funding is decided by the Home Office....i doubt they are in on this so called conspiracy too
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2019, 10:02:31 AM
Perhaps Operation Grange would be more forthcoming was there not also an active Portuguese investigation running in parallel and insisting on adherence to Portuguese secrecy laws.
Anyway ... I don't think it is good policing to signal your punches to criminals by keeping them updated on the details of an investigation ... particularly one which seems to be as huge as this one is.
You are absolutely right...does John want SY to break portuguese law
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2019, 11:58:59 AM
You are absolutely right...does John want SY to break portuguese law
SY can say anything they like in the UK as Portuguese laws don't apply here. What the Portuguese authorities can do is refuse to cooperate with Operation Grange if they say things to the UK media which the Portuguese object to.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2019, 12:05:40 PM
SY can say anything they like in the UK as Portuguese laws don't apply here. What the Portuguese authorities can do is refuse to cooperate with Operation Grange if they say things to the UK media which the Portuguese object to.
SY need to keep on the right side of the PJ.... Are you suggesting the mccanns were not subject to PJ secrecy laws... I doubt that is correct..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on March 02, 2019, 12:52:51 PM
SY can say anything they like in the UK as Portuguese laws don't apply here. What the Portuguese authorities can do is refuse to cooperate with Operation Grange if they say things to the UK media which the Portuguese object to.
I think everyone is missing the point. SY have nothing to report.. end off!!
They have singularly failed to investigate the McCann and others activities post disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2019, 12:56:35 PM
If the police are asking for funding which will cover their work on Madeleine's case for another year it seems obvious that they consider that there is still work to be done on her behalf.
Or do you as a sceptic consider they should just pack up and leave it be ... since it is obvious they are not casting their net in your preferred direction?
If they were close to solving it do you think they'd announce they were looking for another years worth of funding. *%6^
Couldn't give a rats ass whether the pack up today or in 20 yrs time,I'll comment on a British tax funded investigation of a crime in a foreign country where they have no jurisdiction, as I see fit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 02, 2019, 01:05:35 PM
If they were close to solving it do you think they'd announce they were looking for another years worth of funding. *%6^
Couldn't give a rats ass whether the pack up today or in 20 yrs time,I'll comment on a British tax funded investigation of a crime in a foreign country where they have no jurisdiction, as I see fit.
and no comments here are of any importance
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 02, 2019, 05:06:59 PM
That's what I said; SY need to keep the PJ sweet, they aren't subject to Portuguese law here in Britain. I didn't mention the McCanns at all, you did.
I'm questioning your claim... As I understand the mccanns, were subject to Portuguese law, whilst in the UK so why shouldn't SY be... Either way SY are severley limited in what they can say... Portuguese law dictates no press briefing... SY have to abide by that
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 04, 2019, 09:43:41 AM
I'm questioning your claim... As I understand the mccanns, were subject to Portuguese law, whilst in the UK so why shouldn't SY be... Either way SY are severley limited in what they can say... Portuguese law dictates no press briefing... SY have to abide by that
I don't know if Portuguese Judicial secrecy can be enforced in the UK. I suppose they could request extradition of any witness or arguido for breaching it if they wanted to go that far. I doubt if the Portuguese could dictate what SY choose to sat to the UK media about their own investigation. Talking about the PJ investigation would have led to non cooperation. which they wouldn't risk.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2019, 11:20:36 AM
I don't know if Portuguese Judicial secrecy can be enforced in the UK. I suppose they could request extradition of any witness or arguido for breaching it if they wanted to go that far. I doubt if the Portuguese could dictate what SY choose to sat to the UK media about their own investigation. Talking about the PJ investigation would have led to non cooperation. which they wouldn't risk.
Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would be breaking Portuguese law.... Whether they would be liable fir prosecution is another question
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 04, 2019, 11:32:01 AM
Portuguese law dictates not discussing the case so if SY discussed it they would be breaking Portuguese law.... Whether they would be liable fir prosecution is another question
So if the McCanns were the focus of the PJ’s investigation due to official secrecy, neither Redwood nor Rowley nor Hogan-Howe would be unable to tell us that nor would be the person heading the Portuguese investigation. Now that’s interesting.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 04, 2019, 12:04:33 PM
Don't worry about it. Não faz mal. Desculpe, I don't know the phrase in French.
I have a 'paltry 4,000 odd' because when I have nothing to add, I prefer to say nothing.
According to Davel, he thinks his 29,000+ posts are worthless.
&%%6
Ne t'inquiète pas pour ça. Although I would say, C'est pas important.
No one's posts are important, no matter the quantity or even quality. This is a Discussion Forum. This what we do. Personally, I would rather have a bit of humour, but there ain't much of that. So carry on regardless.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2019, 01:37:47 PM
Don't worry about it. Não faz mal. Desculpe, I don't know the phrase in French.
I have a 'paltry 4,000 odd' because when I have nothing to add, I prefer to say nothing.
According to Davel, he thinks his 29,000+ posts are worthless.
&%%6
I dont see the online discussion here has any value.....i think the whole of CMOMM has no value..you may have an over inflated view of the value of your posts.....you may think you add something to the investigation...i certainly dont...there are 7 guests watching this thread so i dont see how any comments here can be of any importance
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 04, 2019, 01:54:43 PM
I dont see the online discussion here has any value.....i think the whole of CMOMM has no value..you may have an over inflated view of the value of your posts.....you may think you add something to the investigation...i certainly dont...there are 7 guests watching this thread so i dont see how any comments here can be of any importance
The discussions here don't have any value, beyond the facility to say what one personally thinks for ones own satisfaction. Most of my comments get entirely ignored, but that's okay because I was able to say whatever.
A face to face discussion or argument isn't any different. But some of us don't have face to face people to talk to. Certainly not people who are interested in The McCanns. My neighbours roll their eyes in horror if I so much as dare to mention it. So we have punch ups about things that are more pertinent to our daily lives.
There is nothing wrong with this Forum. It serves a purpose.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 04, 2019, 02:43:19 PM
I dont see the online discussion here has any value.....i think the whole of CMOMM has no value..you may have an over inflated view of the value of your posts.....you may think you add something to the investigation...i certainly dont...there are 7 guests watching this thread so i dont see how any comments here can be of any importance
Perhaps the people following my blog have a different view.
But hey, hey, hey, hey, oooooooooh.
29,000+ posts of no importance? Very revealing, IMO.
&%%6
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2019, 03:12:31 PM
Perhaps the people following my blog have a different view.
But hey, hey, hey, hey, oooooooooh.
29,000+ posts of no importance? Very revealing, IMO.
&%%6
What importance do you think any posts on here have... You may think your blog has importance... That's just your opinion. ...any Tom Dick or Harry can produce a blog.... How many comments do you get daily... I might just have a look
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 04, 2019, 04:51:19 PM
What importance do you think any posts on here have... You may think your blog has importance... That's just your opinion. ...any Tom Dick or Harry can produce a blog.... How many comments do you get daily... I might just have a look
I've got a Blog. But it isn't anything to do with The McCanns, so no one here is really interested. Although some do know about it.
I don't know what to make of Shining in Luz. Self aggrandisement comes to mind.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 04, 2019, 05:52:52 PM
Perhaps the people following my blog have a different view.
But hey, hey, hey, hey, oooooooooh.
29,000+ posts of no importance? Very revealing, IMO.
&%%6
How many people follow your blog? Only Anne Guedes ever comments, are the rest of your followers silently in awe of your blog’s important discoveries such as dogs have no better a sense of smell than humans?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 04, 2019, 06:27:13 PM
If they were close to solving it do you think they'd announce they were looking for another years worth of funding. *%6^
Couldn't give a rats ass whether the pack up today or in 20 yrs time,I'll comment on a British tax funded investigation of a crime in a foreign country where they have no jurisdiction, as I see fit.
I think SY have more chance of finding out where Lord Lucan ended up than they have of solving the Maddie case. I find their attitude to this case to be incredulous given they have spent over £11 million so far and provided nothing of significance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on March 04, 2019, 11:39:27 PM
The troubling and perplexing case of Madeleine McCann: What happened to Maddie in quiet seaside town? By Mark Saunokonoko 1:11pm Mar 4, 2019
The Madeleine McCann mystery is full of big questions, of course none more important than how does a little girl vanish off the face of the earth, never to be seen again?
Yet packed up in that troubling, overarching question, which has puzzled police forces from Portugal and the United Kingdom for over a decade, is a perplexing and sometimes disturbing chain of wider, unresolved concerns.
The Maddie podcast is the culmination of two years' of painstaking work, investigating how Madeleine, a small three-year-old British girl, vanished in Portugal in such unusual circumstances in May 2007.
While researching and making Maddie, a project which has included many interviews of key people in seven countries spread across three continents, some have asked, why now?
The simple answer to that is Madeleine is still missing. And there are lingering questions which appear to have never been adequately answered with a reasonable sense of finality.
Maddie is a wide-ranging investigation which tackles those questions.
This case is so complex it requires a probing, multi-episode podcast to properly examine what could have happened to her, and scrutinise all the unexpected avenues that search opens up.
To make sense of the evidence, test theories and understand crime scenes, many experts and people close to the case agreed to be interviewed. Former police officers and a criminal profiler, a DNA scientist and crime scene pathologist, experts in cell phone data and deception, private detectives who worked for the McCanns and reporters who covered this story all appear on Maddie. Missing British girl Madeleine McCann, who vanished on May 3, 2007 while on holiday with her family in the Algarve, south Portugal.
When it comes down to it, there are really three likely scenarios when you consider what happened to Madeleine in the small coastal town of Praia da Luz, on Portugal's Algarve.
One: A paedophile or child trafficker somehow broke into the holiday apartment where the McCanns were staying and abducted Maddie.
Two: A thief broke into the McCann’s apartment 5A, bungled the robbery, and stole Maddie from the bedroom where she slept alongside her younger brother and sister, Sean and Amelie.
Three: Something else happened to Madeleine involving someone known to the family, and there has been an elaborate cover-up that has somehow lasted for more than a decade.
As one former long-serving police officer said in his Maddie interview, this is a case which can strongly divide opinions around a family dinner table.
Since 2007, her mum and dad Kate and Gerry have steadfastly denied they were involved in any crime which occurred inside apartment 5A of the Ocean Club Resort.
Police have never charged Madeleine's parents, but during the investigation they were at one time declared arguidos, the Portuguese term for formal suspects.
Law enforcement officials who appear on Maddie have highlighted possible "red flags" in the accounts the McCanns and their seven adult friends, known as the Tapas 7, gave to police. They also examine the evidence that supports the theory that Maddie was abducted by a stranger.
In Maddie, a highly respected figure in the field of solving crimes zeroes in on what was a potentially case-changing piece of evidence in the original police investigation.
That interview could radically alter the direction of the case, and help answer the question: what happened to Maddie?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 05, 2019, 08:52:28 AM
I dont see the online discussion here has any value.....i think the whole of CMOMM has no value..you may have an over inflated view of the value of your posts.....you may think you add something to the investigation...i certainly dont...there are 7 guests watching this thread so i dont see how any comments here can be of any importance
So, you've trashed the whole of this forum, the whole of CMoMM, plus my blog.
&%%6
The key point remains, why post 29,000+ allegedly useless comments? Bizarre, IMO.
*%87
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2019, 09:51:38 AM
Isn't this why we are all here? I have no pretensions towards solving the case.
Like Davel, I enjoy the debate and I think more of us would were there less negativity and certainly less nastiness just for the sake of it. I don't 'do' facebook ... but I checked out some of my missed notifications and found this very apt quotation ...
"Walk away from people who do you down. Walk away from fights that will never be resolved. Walk away from trying to please people who will never see your worth. The more you walk away from things that poison your soul, the healthier you will be."
I think almost every post made here has a value. If for nothing more than giving those of us who have an opinion ... the chance to express one ... bearing in mind that everyone has a voice thanks to this forum and there are a limitless number of fora in existence where the likes of me or Davel's 'freedom of speech' would not be tolerated.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2019, 10:49:45 AM
Isn't this why we are all here? I have no pretensions towards solving the case.
There's no chance of any civilian solving the case in my opinion. I don't think there's much chance of the police doing it either to be honest. I've learned a lot about other things; how people think, how they argue, what they believe and how the media operates.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 05, 2019, 10:56:07 AM
There's no chance of any civilian solving the case in my opinion. I don't think there's much chance of the police doing it either to be honest. I've learned a lot about other things; how people think, how they argue, what they believe and how the media operates.
This Forum and this Case have done wonders for me. At least I am able to hold my own these days. I was such a wimp before this all began.
Much about myself as well.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
There's no chance of any civilian solving the case in my opinion. I don't think there's much chance of the police doing it either to be honest. I've learned a lot about other things; how people think, how they argue, what they believe and how the media operates.
I'm not too sure that the police don't already have a handle ... or believe they do ... on what happened on that May night in Luz so many long years ago now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 05, 2019, 11:20:23 AM
I'm not too sure that the police don't already have a handle ... or believe they do ... on what happened on that May night in Luz so many long years ago now.
I think that The Police have a good idea. The Abduction was all too perfectly planned.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2019, 11:23:23 AM
I wasn't shocked at the nastiness I have received from some here... I wouldnt say I've learnt anything here... But the debate has been enjoyable
I was shocked at the nastiness directed crossed a the mccanns
I was shocked by the nastiness I have received, although things are much better now, thanks to a few people whose names I won't mention. But it isn't all Supporters.
I do my best, and hopefully everyone knows that now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2019, 11:33:21 AM
I was shocked ar first by some of the nastiness, but now I understand it's purpose. I've learned a lot about myself too.
My grounding on Madeleine's case was on an unregulated comment site on Yahoo. UK Justice Forum was a breath of fresh air in comparison. Unlike you I have never been able to fathom the nastiness thrown at Kate and Gerry McCann and any who have a single good word to say about them ... and I don't really wish to plumb those depths particularly as I think it is largely non applicable on this forum.
The nastiness to which I referred isn't really of the visceral type seen on other fora but more the general tone of posts, the sniping and put downs in which we have all indulged from time to time. I think with a little effort we could all be kinder to each other.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 05, 2019, 11:37:18 AM
My grounding on Madeleine's case was on an unregulated comment site on Yahoo. UK Justice Forum was a breath of fresh air in comparison. Unlike you I have never been able to fathom the nastiness thrown at Kate and Gerry McCann and any who have a single good word to say about them ... and I don't really wish to plumb those depths particularly as I think it is largely non applicable on this forum.
The nastiness to which I referred isn't really of the visceral type seen on other fora but more the general tone of posts, the sniping and put downs in which we have all indulged from time to time. I think with a little effort we could all be kinder to each other.
That would be good. The likes of you and I don't want to be deleting or editing posts. The odd nasty comment thrown in at the bottom of a basically good comment.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 05, 2019, 11:40:01 AM
Isn't this why we are all here? I have no pretensions towards solving the case.
No, it isn't why we are all here.
I don't 'socialise' on-line. That's why I have no Twitter, no Facebook, no Instagram accounts. I do socialising with real people in real-life situations.
I am on here to find out more about the Madeleine case, start-end.
Don't get me wrong. If I were to meet you in person, I would be happy to have a drink with you all. But not to discuss the case.
For Eleanor, I am interested in life in France, because I have visited for perhaps 7 days in total. And food banks. Because we have a tradition in Portugal of buying 'extra' food shopping in Dec/Jan each year, to make sure people less well off have a festive Christmas season as well. There happens to be a long story behind this, starting around the end of the Medieval period, but this is not a history forum.
For Erngarth, a point I am interested in is her Burns Night menu, because of my interest in cooking.
For CarlyMichelle, I could probe for hours about Australia, which is where I think she lives. I have real-life friends and relatives in Australia. I watch A-League footie regularly. Oddly enough, I have just finished watching a programme about the Bondi Beach lifeguards. This last bit gave me a tiny sliver of information relevant to Madeleine, despite having nothing to do with her at all.
In the totally unlikely scenario that from the forum we were to group together in person, there's a very small number of people I would invite to my house to discuss Madeleine. I like cooking. My kitchen here is pocket handkerchief size. My dinner table sits 6, so that is myself plus 5 guests.
I have been distanced from one of my guests from this forum, so there is a spare place a-begging. It might well be offered to Misty, who seems quite keen on digging further into the facts.
The forum member currently guaranteed a place is G-Unit, who trawls up relevant facts and information on regular basis.
Outside the forum, there is Anne, who confronts some of my ideas, in a constructive manner. She forces me to think again.
Please socialise responsibly. But I am here for one reason only. Madeleine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2019, 01:20:15 PM
I don't 'socialise' on-line. That's why I have no Twitter, no Facebook, no Instagram accounts. I do socialising with real people in real-life situations.
I am on here to find out more about the Madeleine case, start-end.
Don't get me wrong. If I were to meet you in person, I would be happy to have a drink with you all. But not to discuss the case.
For Eleanor, I am interested in life in France, because I have visited for perhaps 7 days in total. And food banks. Because we have a tradition in Portugal of buying 'extra' food shopping in Dec/Jan each year, to make sure people less well off have a festive Christmas season as well. There happens to be a long story behind this, starting around the end of the Medieval period, but this is not a history forum.
For Erngarth, a point I am interested in is her Burns Night menu, because of my interest in cooking.
For CarlyMichelle, I could probe for hours about Australia, which is where I think she lives. I have real-life friends and relatives in Australia. I watch A-League footie regularly. Oddly enough, I have just finished watching a programme about the Bondi Beach lifeguards. This last bit gave me a tiny sliver of information relevant to Madeleine, despite having nothing to do with her at all.
In the totally unlikely scenario that from the forum we were to group together in person, there's a very small number of people I would invite to my house to discuss Madeleine. I like cooking. My kitchen here is pocket handkerchief size. My dinner table sits 6, so that is myself plus 5 guests.
I have been distanced from one of my guests from this forum, so there is a spare place a-begging. It might well be offered to Misty, who seems quite keen on digging further into the facts.
The forum member currently guaranteed a place is G-Unit, who trawls up relevant facts and information on regular basis.
Outside the forum, there is Anne, who confronts some of my ideas, in a constructive manner. She forces me to think again.
Please socialise responsibly. But I am here for one reason only. Madeleine.
you are missing a lot by not using facebook....I can still use facebook and socialise with poeple in the real world. How do you keep in touch with family in australia...I use FB.....video phone calls ....photographs ..videos ......messaging to keep in touch with my family in australia and around teh world.....it really is quite marvelous...you are missing a lot.
I fail to see how posters can progress the case...particularly if they dont understand the evidence......as i regularly see....
You say you are here for Madeleine....i think you are wrong if you think you can be any help whatsoever...the best chance we have of finding out what hapenned to Maddie is from the two police forces involved..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2019, 01:23:21 PM
What goes around comes around; perhaps that's a lesson you should have learned by now.
have the mccanns neen nasty to posters here then,,,,,, my wife has been insulted and she doesnt post...so how does taht work...as far as what goes around...when I suggested that i was banned
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on March 05, 2019, 01:41:14 PM
I don't 'socialise' on-line. That's why I have no Twitter, no Facebook, no Instagram accounts. I do socialising with real people in real-life situations.
I am on here to find out more about the Madeleine case, start-end.
Don't get me wrong. If I were to meet you in person, I would be happy to have a drink with you all. But not to discuss the case.
For Eleanor, I am interested in life in France, because I have visited for perhaps 7 days in total. And food banks. Because we have a tradition in Portugal of buying 'extra' food shopping in Dec/Jan each year, to make sure people less well off have a festive Christmas season as well. There happens to be a long story behind this, starting around the end of the Medieval period, but this is not a history forum.
For Erngarth, a point I am interested in is her Burns Night menu, because of my interest in cooking.
For CarlyMichelle, I could probe for hours about Australia, which is where I think she lives. I have real-life friends and relatives in Australia. I watch A-League footie regularly. Oddly enough, I have just finished watching a programme about the Bondi Beach lifeguards. This last bit gave me a tiny sliver of information relevant to Madeleine, despite having nothing to do with her at all.
In the totally unlikely scenario that from the forum we were to group together in person, there's a very small number of people I would invite to my house to discuss Madeleine. I like cooking. My kitchen here is pocket handkerchief size. My dinner table sits 6, so that is myself plus 5 guests.
I have been distanced from one of my guests from this forum, so there is a spare place a-begging. It might well be offered to Misty, who seems quite keen on digging further into the facts.
The forum member currently guaranteed a place is G-Unit, who trawls up relevant facts and information on regular basis.
Outside the forum, there is Anne, who confronts some of my ideas, in a constructive manner. She forces me to think again.
Please socialise responsibly. But I am here for one reason only. Madeleine.
Thank you SIL. I think everyone knows my obsession is facts, not opinions. I too value Anne's work, and it's thanks to you that I have a better understanding of Luz. I don't know if you go there now, but it seems to me that the Ocean Club has declined ever since Crossland et al sold it due to a lack if investment in infrastructure and in staff.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2019, 02:09:46 PM
Thank you SIL. I think everyone knows my obsession is facts, not opinions. I too value Anne's work, and it's thanks to you that I have a better understanding of Luz. I don't know if you go there now, but it seems to me that the Ocean Club has declined ever since Crossland et al sold it due to a lack if investment in infrastructure and in staff.
I've seen you post several opinions as facts
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on March 05, 2019, 02:30:55 PM
you are missing a lot by not using facebook....I can still use facebook and socialise with poeple in the real world. How do you keep in touch with family in australia...I use FB.....video phone calls ....photographs ..videos ......messaging to keep in touch with my family in australia and around teh world.....it really is quite marvelous...you are missing a lot.
I fail to see how posters can progress the case...particularly if they dont understand the evidence......as i regularly see....
You say you are here for Madeleine....i think you are wrong if you think you can be any help whatsoever...the best chance we have of finding out what hapenned to Maddie is from the two police forces involved..
You forgot Skype wonderful way in which to keep in touch with family/friends.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2019, 02:49:10 PM
I don't 'socialise' on-line. That's why I have no Twitter, no Facebook, no Instagram accounts. I do socialising with real people in real-life situations.
I am on here to find out more about the Madeleine case, start-end.
Don't get me wrong. If I were to meet you in person, I would be happy to have a drink with you all. But not to discuss the case.
For Eleanor, I am interested in life in France, because I have visited for perhaps 7 days in total. And food banks. Because we have a tradition in Portugal of buying 'extra' food shopping in Dec/Jan each year, to make sure people less well off have a festive Christmas season as well. There happens to be a long story behind this, starting around the end of the Medieval period, but this is not a history forum.
For Erngarth, a point I am interested in is her Burns Night menu, because of my interest in cooking.
For CarlyMichelle, I could probe for hours about Australia, which is where I think she lives. I have real-life friends and relatives in Australia. I watch A-League footie regularly. Oddly enough, I have just finished watching a programme about the Bondi Beach lifeguards. This last bit gave me a tiny sliver of information relevant to Madeleine, despite having nothing to do with her at all.
In the totally unlikely scenario that from the forum we were to group together in person, there's a very small number of people I would invite to my house to discuss Madeleine. I like cooking. My kitchen here is pocket handkerchief size. My dinner table sits 6, so that is myself plus 5 guests.
I have been distanced from one of my guests from this forum, so there is a spare place a-begging. It might well be offered to Misty, who seems quite keen on digging further into the facts.
The forum member currently guaranteed a place is G-Unit, who trawls up relevant facts and information on regular basis.
Outside the forum, there is Anne, who confronts some of my ideas, in a constructive manner. She forces me to think again.
Please socialise responsibly. But I am here for one reason only. Madeleine.
This is an interesting comment.
Food Banks in France go back to the last War, as far as I can gather. Catholic mainly. There is The Restaurant de Coeur, started by a popular comedienne about twenty five years ago. This is separate to The Commune Food Banks which are largely funded by The EU. Portugal should be entitled to this.. The Restaurant de Coeur has trollies in supermarkets sometimes. I always donate something. In gratitude mostly. They also have a fund raiser on television.
I have a Blog. I never discuss or Blog about The McCann Case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2019, 03:56:16 PM
Food Banks in France go back to the last War, as far as I can gather. Catholic mainly. There is The Restaurant de Coeur, started by a popular comedienne about twenty five years ago. This is separate to The Commune Food Banks which are largely funded by The EU. Portugal should be entitled to this.. The Restaurant de Coeur has trollies in supermarkets sometimes. I always donate something. In gratitude mostly. They also have a fund raiser on television.
I have a Blog. I never discuss or Blog about The McCann Case.
Many of the large supermarkets here have donation bins fir food banks... But not the Germans.. Lol
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2019, 03:59:32 PM
I don't 'socialise' on-line. That's why I have no Twitter, no Facebook, no Instagram accounts. I do socialising with real people in real-life situations.
I am on here to find out more about the Madeleine case, start-end.
Don't get me wrong. If I were to meet you in person, I would be happy to have a drink with you all. But not to discuss the case.
For Eleanor, I am interested in life in France, because I have visited for perhaps 7 days in total. And food banks. Because we have a tradition in Portugal of buying 'extra' food shopping in Dec/Jan each year, to make sure people less well off have a festive Christmas season as well. There happens to be a long story behind this, starting around the end of the Medieval period, but this is not a history forum.
For Erngarth, a point I am interested in is her Burns Night menu, because of my interest in cooking.
For CarlyMichelle, I could probe for hours about Australia, which is where I think she lives. I have real-life friends and relatives in Australia. I watch A-League footie regularly. Oddly enough, I have just finished watching a programme about the Bondi Beach lifeguards. This last bit gave me a tiny sliver of information relevant to Madeleine, despite having nothing to do with her at all.
In the totally unlikely scenario that from the forum we were to group together in person, there's a very small number of people I would invite to my house to discuss Madeleine. I like cooking. My kitchen here is pocket handkerchief size. My dinner table sits 6, so that is myself plus 5 guests.
I have been distanced from one of my guests from this forum, so there is a spare place a-begging. It might well be offered to Misty, who seems quite keen on digging further into the facts.
The forum member currently guaranteed a place is G-Unit, who trawls up relevant facts and information on regular basis.
Outside the forum, there is Anne, who confronts some of my ideas, in a constructive manner. She forces me to think again.
Please socialise responsibly. But I am here for one reason only. Madeleine.
So how do you keep in touch with your family in Australia
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 05, 2019, 04:07:58 PM
Many of the large supermarkets here have donation bins fir food banks... But not the Germans.. Lol
Went to The Food Bank this afternoon. Got some Scottish Smoked Salmon, past it's sell by date tomorrow, but who cares about that? Also some Shrimps, Pork Chops, Beef Burgers, A Tin of Tartiflet, don't ask. Really good Bread, French. Pate and lots of French Cheese, which I am not wild about. No Cheddar, but you can't have it all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on March 05, 2019, 04:10:23 PM
CarlyMichelle lives in Tasmania. Really interesting. Perhaps she will tell us about it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2019, 04:49:44 PM
Went to The Food Bank this afternoon. Got some Scottish Smoked Salmon, past it's sell by date tomorrow, but who cares about that? Also some Shrimps, Pork Chops, Beef Burgers, A Tin of Tartiflet, don't ask. Really good Bread, French. Pate and lots of French Cheese, which I am not wild about. No Cheddar, but you can't have it all.
I can see why you prefer 🇫🇷
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 05, 2019, 04:51:13 PM
Try this link. https://thetab.com/uk/2019/03/26/mccann-spokesman-clarence-mitchell-madeleine-96448
This is the interview Misty
When Clarence Mitchell picked up the phone at work one morning, he expected yet another routine conversation.
But it was a phone call that plucked him from the mundane life of a civil service job and dropped him right in the heart of one of the biggest missing children’s cases the world has ever seen.
An ex-BBC reporter, Mitchell was by then working in a government-led arm on media monitoring, but had asked ex-colleagues to keep him in mind for any big stories that broke. “I thought it might be something like bird flu, or foot and mouth. A general crisis that flares up from time to time,” explains Mitchell.
But this was May 2007, and a three-year-old Madeleine McCann had just been snatched from her hotel room in Praia du Luz, Portugal, taken from her bed while her parents dined in a nearby restaurant.
“The ambassador [to Portugal] had sent a couple of press officers down there, but they were overwhelmed by the media response. He asked for some extra help from London,” Mitchell recalls.
“I was sent out and told it would just be a fortnight or so." But almost 12 years on, Mitchell is still helping the family. Fascination with Madeleine's case has never abated - a new Netflix series, The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann, was released two weeks ago - and Mitchell has been handling Gerry and Kate's media dealings ever since.
“Some of the coverage had been very negative, and so I thought this was a chance to help them," the 57-year-old says.
Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter Madeleine disappeared from a holiday flat in Portugal Gerry and Kate McCann's daughter Madeleine disappeared from a holiday flat in Portugal CREDIT: PA “We have a good working relationship. Friendly but professional," he adds. "We do not socialise, it is not necessarily appropriate, but the media coverage is still pretty intrusive and they see me as a part of dealing with it."
Mitchell had to consider the impact that taking on such a case would have on him - his own children were 10, eight and one at the time. “I could not help but think of my kids when I was at the height of it... I was away from home a lot of the time as well," he recalls.
“That said, I treated it as a job. Although it was upsetting, and I could see the pain it was causing the family, I could not afford to get emotionally attached to the situation. I just had to look at the set of facts in front of me, and treat it as dispassionately as possible."
He admits that it was "upsetting," but adds that, "without being callous, I had to keep the actual emotion to one side. Not wanting to sound cold-hearted, but I do not think it has affected me particularly badly. I tried to be as impartial as possible, and still try to this day.”
Over the years, the McCanns have faced a great deal of criticism over their parenting, and perceived role in Madeleine’s disappearance. “A lot of it is misinformed, misguided and based purely on assumptions or lack of knowledge," Mitchell says. Mostly, though, it is "prejudice. People deciding that they don’t like the McCanns.”
Kate and Gerry McCann "One of the reasons they were so controlled was because they were told that often the perpetrators enjoy seeing the distress that they have caused' CREDIT: GEOFF PUGH FOR THE TELEGRAPH Mitchell estimates that "thousands" of people have told him they have seen the little girl in a dream - including a lot of psychics - while "one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories I have heard was that Madeleine was born as the result of a government cloning project.
“People also assumed the worst. That [the McCanns] were getting drunk, that they were having fun and that they did not care about their children."
Further criticism of Gerry and Kate has labelled them "neglectful. There is even those who say that the parents know what happened. They don’t. It is just not true. But try explaining that in the noise of social media and general coverage.”
The McCanns' restrained emotional response to the cameras in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance provoked questions: how could they be so contained after something so terrible had happened?
“One of the reasons they were so controlled was because they were told very early on that often, in the case of paedophilic kidnaps, the perpetrators watch media coverage and enjoy seeing the distress that they have caused," Mitchell explains.
Former senior British Police officer and former head of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP) Jim Gamble, who features in the documentary Former senior British Police officer and former head of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP) Jim Gamble, who features in the documentary “So, the police told them not to cry. Not to show any over-emotion. Kate and Gerry, both doctors and both logical, were not going to let that b------ have that satisfaction and so were very rigid.
He understands, though, that “for someone who does not know that, they might think it looks a bit suspicious. It is almost like the public were expecting the parents to react in a certain way.”
Things were worsened still by what he calls "a spin-cycle of madness." The papers were full of "McCann fury", he remembers; "the tabloids exaggerated and distorted the information." He is also critical of the Portuguese authorities, as "there would be certain bits of information that could have only come from interviews with the Portuguese police, who wouldn't then confirm anything due to Portuguese laws prohibiting the discussion of legal cases.”
Since the McCanns entered the public eye in 2007, they have received mountains of abuse; Mitchell, too, has had his fair share of online trolls.
“I get slammed online all the time for defending them," he says, adding that while he ignores it as best he can, "it is hurtful and it is unnecessary. The McCanns ignore the online negativity and so do I. We only act if there are specific, actionable threats which are always reported to the police.”
Certain tabloids have cashed in on public fascination with Madeleine, Mitchell believes, as "every time they put [her] on the front page, circulation would go up" - whether there really were new developments in her case or not. Front page apologies from a number of red tops followed, while "substantial damages" were paid.
A major source of ill feeling towards the McCanns has been the considerable funding the case has received. The Find Madeleine Fund was established in 2007, made up of public donations as well as settlement money from the Express newspaper group, and proceeds from Kate McCann's book.
“The family asked for help in finding their daughter, as anybody would, and the Government chose to support them," Mitchell says, "I do agree though, what do you say to the parent of another missing child? The mother of Ben Needham, for example, has occasionally been upset that the McCanns' case gets so much coverage.”
It is our digital age, however, that Mitchell believes has made all the difference.
“Madeleine has been, arguably, the most high-profile missing child case in the internet era. It was not a decision of our making.”
Nowadays, he does little work with the McCanns, and remains uncertain over Madeleine's fate. “I asked the British authorities what they think happened and if there was any family involvement, and they assured me it was just a rare case of stranger abduction.
“It’s very rare, but it can happen." A sexual motive, he says, is an "obvious" possibility. Kate and Gerry remain hopeful that, as per "other cases, where a missing child has been found alive after many years," there remains hope: that, coupled with "the complete absence of any evidence that Madeleine has been physically harmed," gives them the sense that their eldest daughter may well still be alive.
Though Mitchell hopes the mystery "could all end on one phone call tomorrow, so far, it hasn’t.
“A child was taken to order from that room.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on March 27, 2019, 01:33:22 AM
Thank you for posting that, Faithlilly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 31, 2019, 12:30:34 AM
Are police about to abandon Maddie inquiry? After eight years and £12million, detectives have NO new leads or suspects…and the money is running out Scotland Yard's hunt for Madeleine McCann has 'no earth-shattering leads' Detectives rarely visit the Portuguese resort where she vanished in May 2007 The Home Office provided £150k for four detectives to work on the operation They are due to finish at the end of this month when money runs out By MARK HOOKHAM and MARK WOOD FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY
The £12 million investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is at risk of being abandoned as leads dry up and Government funding runs out, The Mail on Sunday can reveal. Scotland Yard’s hunt for Madeleine is understood to have no ‘earth-shattering leads’ and detectives rarely visit the Portuguese resort where she vanished in May 2007. The Home Office provided £150,000 cash last October to fund four detectives to work on Operation Grange, as the inquiry is codenamed, until the end of this month.
The Metropolitan Police is understood to have sought a further £300,000, but officials last night admitted no decision on future funding has been made. Madeleine was three when she vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve as her parents, Gerry and Kate, dined with friends at a nearby restaurant. Portuguese police shelved their investigation in 2008 but Scotland Yard launched its own inquiry in 2011. At its height, 31 detectives worked on the case, but the investigation was dramatically scaled back in 2015.
A well-placed source said the remaining handful of detectives have been carrying out ‘grunt work’ which includes tracking down and eliminating known sex offenders and finding possible witnesses rather than pursuing hard leads. ‘Most of what Operation Grange is doing is having things set up to knock down and rule out, rather than pursuing a particular fantastic lead that could unlock it all,’ the source said. ‘I’m not aware of any earth-shattering lead or breakthrough imminently.’
The Home Office provided £150,000 cash last October to fund four detectives to work on Operation Grange, as the inquiry is codenamed, until the end of this month. (Pictured) British Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall arriving at Faro police station in December 2014 Much of the work is understood to take place in London. Detectives made just two trips to Portugal in 2017-18, which involved five return flights costing £1,240. They usually stay at the upmarket Estrela da Luz hotel but a bar manager there said: ‘I haven’t seen any police here for nearly a year, probably last May.’ Instead, sources say the focus has shifted to Eastern Europe as detectives examine the theory that Madeleine was abducted by child-traffickers. It is understood they went to great lengths to trace a couple believed to be from Bulgaria who were staying near Praia da Luz at the time of her disappearance. The man, who was believed to have been a paedophile, had died but officers struggled to find the woman, despite help from Interpol. Operation Grange has so far cost £11.75 million, including more than £10 million on salaries, over £440,000 on overtime and about £287,000 on travel costs. A source close to the investigation said the Home Office would be ‘clinical’ in deciding whether to approve more funding. ‘The bottom line is they need to be able to present an argument that suggests they still have stuff to do.’ The inquiry is led by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall. Her team comprises a detective sergeant and three detective constables based at Putney police station in South-West London. Former Met Commander Brian Paddick said investigations like Operation Grange were adding to the pressure on Scotland Yard detectives. ‘Clearly there is a national shortage of detectives and any detective that is taken away from other duties in order to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is going to have an impact,’ he said. In an interview with Vogue magazine in 2013, DCI Wall spoke of her fondness for Saga Noren, the fictional detective in the Scandinavian TV drama The Bridge, whom she described as ‘quite feminine, very glamorous, very pretty and very capable’. The Met veteran was said to attribute her low media profile to the fact ‘we solve cases so quickly nobody gets involved’. But the search for Madeleine has so far proved fruitless. Locals in Praia da Luz this weekend said they had seen little evidence of any ongoing police inquiries for almost a year. A worker at the Ocean Club Resort, from where Madeleine disappeared, said: ‘I haven’t seen any police here for a long time. I think that is a good thing as far as the locals are concerned, they are tired of the area being associated with such a tragic event.’ A Met spokesman said: ‘The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains ongoing.’ A spokesman for the McCanns said: ‘Kate and Gerry remain incredibly grateful to the Metropolitan Police and the Home Office for the continued work they are doing.’ The Home Office confirmed it had received a request to extend funding for Operation Grange and was in talks with the Met. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... leads.html
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on March 31, 2019, 12:59:02 AM
Well they must have eliminated a lot of leads by now so how many are left to investigate?
Bernard Hogan-Howe said one final lead was left on 26 April 2016.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on March 31, 2019, 02:08:31 AM
Yeah and not talking about it. I believe they have been investigating the final lead for a long time now.
If memory serves me well I think Shining might be able to help them out on this one ... I think he said she was in Luz. Apologies if I've got that wrong.
Snip The man, who was believed to have been a paedophile, had died but officers struggled to find the woman, despite help from Interpol. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6868571/Are-police-abandon-Maddie-inquiry-No-new-leads-eight-years-no-new-leads.html
But whatever ... smacks very much of journalists filing copy; nothing new; no attributed sources ~ just par for the course in proving Madeleine name still sells newspapers and anything else others feel like peddling for a quick buck.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on March 31, 2019, 08:56:52 AM
Are police about to abandon Maddie inquiry? After eight years and £12million, detectives have NO new leads or suspects…and the money is running out Scotland Yard's hunt for Madeleine McCann has 'no earth-shattering leads' Detectives rarely visit the Portuguese resort where she vanished in May 2007 The Home Office provided £150k for four detectives to work on the operation They are due to finish at the end of this month when money runs out By MARK HOOKHAM and MARK WOOD FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY
The £12 million investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is at risk of being abandoned as leads dry up and Government funding runs out, The Mail on Sunday can reveal. Scotland Yard’s hunt for Madeleine is understood to have no ‘earth-shattering leads’ and detectives rarely visit the Portuguese resort where she vanished in May 2007. The Home Office provided £150,000 cash last October to fund four detectives to work on Operation Grange, as the inquiry is codenamed, until the end of this month.
The Metropolitan Police is understood to have sought a further £300,000, but officials last night admitted no decision on future funding has been made. Madeleine was three when she vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve as her parents, Gerry and Kate, dined with friends at a nearby restaurant. Portuguese police shelved their investigation in 2008 but Scotland Yard launched its own inquiry in 2011. At its height, 31 detectives worked on the case, but the investigation was dramatically scaled back in 2015.
A well-placed source said the remaining handful of detectives have been carrying out ‘grunt work’ which includes tracking down and eliminating known sex offenders and finding possible witnesses rather than pursuing hard leads. ‘Most of what Operation Grange is doing is having things set up to knock down and rule out, rather than pursuing a particular fantastic lead that could unlock it all,’ the source said. ‘I’m not aware of any earth-shattering lead or breakthrough imminently.’
The Home Office provided £150,000 cash last October to fund four detectives to work on Operation Grange, as the inquiry is codenamed, until the end of this month. (Pictured) British Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall arriving at Faro police station in December 2014 Much of the work is understood to take place in London. Detectives made just two trips to Portugal in 2017-18, which involved five return flights costing £1,240. They usually stay at the upmarket Estrela da Luz hotel but a bar manager there said: ‘I haven’t seen any police here for nearly a year, probably last May.’ Instead, sources say the focus has shifted to Eastern Europe as detectives examine the theory that Madeleine was abducted by child-traffickers. It is understood they went to great lengths to trace a couple believed to be from Bulgaria who were staying near Praia da Luz at the time of her disappearance. The man, who was believed to have been a paedophile, had died but officers struggled to find the woman, despite help from Interpol. Operation Grange has so far cost £11.75 million, including more than £10 million on salaries, over £440,000 on overtime and about £287,000 on travel costs. A source close to the investigation said the Home Office would be ‘clinical’ in deciding whether to approve more funding. ‘The bottom line is they need to be able to present an argument that suggests they still have stuff to do.’ The inquiry is led by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall. Her team comprises a detective sergeant and three detective constables based at Putney police station in South-West London. Former Met Commander Brian Paddick said investigations like Operation Grange were adding to the pressure on Scotland Yard detectives. ‘Clearly there is a national shortage of detectives and any detective that is taken away from other duties in order to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is going to have an impact,’ he said. In an interview with Vogue magazine in 2013, DCI Wall spoke of her fondness for Saga Noren, the fictional detective in the Scandinavian TV drama The Bridge, whom she described as ‘quite feminine, very glamorous, very pretty and very capable’. The Met veteran was said to attribute her low media profile to the fact ‘we solve cases so quickly nobody gets involved’. But the search for Madeleine has so far proved fruitless. Locals in Praia da Luz this weekend said they had seen little evidence of any ongoing police inquiries for almost a year. A worker at the Ocean Club Resort, from where Madeleine disappeared, said: ‘I haven’t seen any police here for a long time. I think that is a good thing as far as the locals are concerned, they are tired of the area being associated with such a tragic event.’ A Met spokesman said: ‘The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains ongoing.’ A spokesman for the McCanns said: ‘Kate and Gerry remain incredibly grateful to the Metropolitan Police and the Home Office for the continued work they are doing.’ The Home Office confirmed it had received a request to extend funding for Operation Grange and was in talks with the Met. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... leads.html
Of course it could be argued that Grange have exhausted all avenues related to their remit,doesn't leave alot does it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 09:10:55 AM
Of course it could be argued that Grange have exhausted all avenues related to their remit,doesn't leave alot does it.
... and if that is so they will follow normal procedure just as they would on any other case when all investigative avenues are exhausted.
I wonder if Madeleine McCann's case is unique in the apparent eagerness with which some appear to be willing that to happen or are there other missing child cases extant where the same negativity towards finding out what happened to the child in question is displayed?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on March 31, 2019, 09:18:13 AM
... and if that is so they will follow normal procedure just as they would on any other case when all investigative avenues are exhausted.
I wonder if Madeleine McCann's case is unique in the apparent eagerness with which some appear to be willing that to happen or are there other missing child cases extant where the same negativity towards finding out what happened to the child in question is displayed?
The only other case of brit police working abroad resulted in the professional opinion that the child died in an accident,wonder if this will be the same.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on March 31, 2019, 09:22:23 AM
The only other case of brit police working abroad resulted in the professional opinion that the child died in an accident,wonder if this will be the same.
It would shoe that they were not strictly limited to the remit
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on March 31, 2019, 09:29:14 AM
Are police about to abandon Maddie inquiry? After eight years and £12million, detectives have NO new leads or suspects…and the money is running out Scotland Yard's hunt for Madeleine McCann has 'no earth-shattering leads' Detectives rarely visit the Portuguese resort where she vanished in May 2007 The Home Office provided £150k for four detectives to work on the operation They are due to finish at the end of this month when money runs out By MARK HOOKHAM and MARK WOOD FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY
The £12 million investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is at risk of being abandoned as leads dry up and Government funding runs out, The Mail on Sunday can reveal. Scotland Yard’s hunt for Madeleine is understood to have no ‘earth-shattering leads’ and detectives rarely visit the Portuguese resort where she vanished in May 2007. The Home Office provided £150,000 cash last October to fund four detectives to work on Operation Grange, as the inquiry is codenamed, until the end of this month.
The Metropolitan Police is understood to have sought a further £300,000, but officials last night admitted no decision on future funding has been made. Madeleine was three when she vanished from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz in the Algarve as her parents, Gerry and Kate, dined with friends at a nearby restaurant. Portuguese police shelved their investigation in 2008 but Scotland Yard launched its own inquiry in 2011. At its height, 31 detectives worked on the case, but the investigation was dramatically scaled back in 2015.
A well-placed source said the remaining handful of detectives have been carrying out ‘grunt work’ which includes tracking down and eliminating known sex offenders and finding possible witnesses rather than pursuing hard leads. ‘Most of what Operation Grange is doing is having things set up to knock down and rule out, rather than pursuing a particular fantastic lead that could unlock it all,’ the source said. ‘I’m not aware of any earth-shattering lead or breakthrough imminently.’
The Home Office provided £150,000 cash last October to fund four detectives to work on Operation Grange, as the inquiry is codenamed, until the end of this month. (Pictured) British Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall arriving at Faro police station in December 2014 Much of the work is understood to take place in London. Detectives made just two trips to Portugal in 2017-18, which involved five return flights costing £1,240. They usually stay at the upmarket Estrela da Luz hotel but a bar manager there said: ‘I haven’t seen any police here for nearly a year, probably last May.’ Instead, sources say the focus has shifted to Eastern Europe as detectives examine the theory that Madeleine was abducted by child-traffickers. It is understood they went to great lengths to trace a couple believed to be from Bulgaria who were staying near Praia da Luz at the time of her disappearance. The man, who was believed to have been a paedophile, had died but officers struggled to find the woman, despite help from Interpol. Operation Grange has so far cost £11.75 million, including more than £10 million on salaries, over £440,000 on overtime and about £287,000 on travel costs. A source close to the investigation said the Home Office would be ‘clinical’ in deciding whether to approve more funding. ‘The bottom line is they need to be able to present an argument that suggests they still have stuff to do.’ The inquiry is led by Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall. Her team comprises a detective sergeant and three detective constables based at Putney police station in South-West London. Former Met Commander Brian Paddick said investigations like Operation Grange were adding to the pressure on Scotland Yard detectives. ‘Clearly there is a national shortage of detectives and any detective that is taken away from other duties in order to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is going to have an impact,’ he said. In an interview with Vogue magazine in 2013, DCI Wall spoke of her fondness for Saga Noren, the fictional detective in the Scandinavian TV drama The Bridge, whom she described as ‘quite feminine, very glamorous, very pretty and very capable’. The Met veteran was said to attribute her low media profile to the fact ‘we solve cases so quickly nobody gets involved’. But the search for Madeleine has so far proved fruitless. Locals in Praia da Luz this weekend said they had seen little evidence of any ongoing police inquiries for almost a year. A worker at the Ocean Club Resort, from where Madeleine disappeared, said: ‘I haven’t seen any police here for a long time. I think that is a good thing as far as the locals are concerned, they are tired of the area being associated with such a tragic event.’ A Met spokesman said: ‘The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains ongoing.’ A spokesman for the McCanns said: ‘Kate and Gerry remain incredibly grateful to the Metropolitan Police and the Home Office for the continued work they are doing.’ The Home Office confirmed it had received a request to extend funding for Operation Grange and was in talks with the Met. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... leads.html
Either this is true and the McCanns are not under investigation or it is a false story, probably written by Clarence Mitchell to deflect from “something big brewing”. Which is it do you think Faithlilly?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on March 31, 2019, 09:35:38 AM
The only other case of brit police working abroad resulted in the professional opinion that the child died in an accident,wonder if this will be the same.
I was rather hoping Madeleine would be found alive and well.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on March 31, 2019, 09:58:39 AM
It would shoe that they were not strictly limited to the remit
I'd concede that point if they were to come out with that,if its the end it'll be interesting to hear what they think,but unless the PJ wrap up as well then SY won't say much.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on March 31, 2019, 10:02:19 AM
No, but it seems to be all of the same interviewees though.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on April 09, 2019, 10:24:38 PM
I haven't seen the Netflix series but at 7 minutes that clown MWT believes Matt went inside the apartment at 9pm to check. He does well if he can get any facts right. How can he be taken seriously? The devil is in the detail does not apply to him!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 10, 2019, 10:37:06 AM
I've watched the whole of the ID offering now and it is stuffed with factual errors.
But that is the whole point of an alleged true-crime 'documentary'. The talking heads are selected on their ability to be entertainment. Investigative fact is merely collateral damage.
My thanks to pathfinder73 for bringing this effort to my attention.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on April 10, 2019, 10:44:07 AM
I've watched the whole of the ID offering now and it is stuffed with factual errors.
But that is the whole point of an alleged true-crime 'documentary'. The talking heads are selected on their ability to be entertainment. Investigative fact is merely collateral damage.
My thanks to pathfinder73 for bringing this effort to my attention.
I'm glad you've watched it so we don't now have to.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 10, 2019, 11:07:33 AM
I haven't seen the Netflix series but at 7 minutes that clown MWT believes Matt went inside the apartment at 9pm to check. He does well if he can get any facts right. How can he be taken seriously? The devil is in the detail does not apply to him!
In my opinion there wasn't much of interest. Neil Berry claimed that Madeleine plunged off the boat and into the sea on Thursday morning to get his daughter's hat which had fallen in. A Metodo 3 employee admitted he offered Makinka half a nillion to talk. Brian and Patrick Kennedy and the Haynes Hubbards spoke. I would be surprised if they did that against the McCann's wishes.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 10, 2019, 11:31:21 AM
I've watched the whole of the ID offering now and it is stuffed with factual errors.
But that is the whole point of an alleged true-crime 'documentary'. The talking heads are selected on their ability to be entertainment. Investigative fact is merely collateral damage.
My thanks to pathfinder73 for bringing this effort to my attention.
Basically the 'talking heads' have no idea how they will be used or edited so always a risky business for them.
What is the provenance of this 'documentary' ... did the 'talking' heads know what programme they were contributing to, or were they pirated from elsewhere?
The interviewees were fine and much as one would expect but I found the voice over to be totally inaccurate in parts.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 10, 2019, 11:47:27 AM
Basically the 'talking heads' have no idea how they will be used or edited so always a risky business for them.
What is the provenance of this 'documentary' ... did the 'talking' heads know what programme they were contributing to, or were they pirated from elsewhere?
The interviewees were fine and much as one would expect but I found the voice over to be totally inaccurate in parts.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'voice over'. Amaral?
One of the key facts that struck me was that the programme was narrated in a US accent. Presumably the original was aimed at a target audience of the US and Canada, but I don't know. It could be anywhere English speaking.
It's no worse than many of the offerings on the subject. I consider that most who have studied the case would find the flaws.
But most people on Planet Earth have not put time and effort in researching the case, and for those, it was much better than nothing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 10, 2019, 12:01:32 PM
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'voice over'. Amaral?
One of the key facts that struck me was that the programme was narrated in a US accent. Presumably the original was aimed at a target audience of the US and Canada, but I don't know. It could be anywhere English speaking.
It's no worse than many of the offerings on the subject. I consider that most who have studied the case would find the flaws.
But most people on Planet Earth have not put time and effort in researching the case, and for those, it was much better than nothing.
I have always assumed a voice-over is a commentary given by an off camera presenter to provide explanation or continuity.
Amaral was a translation ... which I suppose could also be referred to as a voice-over since it was ... as opposed to using subtitles.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 12, 2019, 02:35:48 PM
I wonder why this question is being asked about the McCanns?
Are they still together? https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8653012/madeleine-mccann-parents-kate-gerry-still-together/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 12, 2019, 02:55:08 PM
I wonder why this question is being asked about the McCanns?
Are they still together? https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8653012/madeleine-mccann-parents-kate-gerry-still-together/
This is surely posted on the wrong thread ... it would be far more appropriate for the "Sceptics beliefs?' thread as at one time such rumours have been rife on sceptic fora and sometimes tabloids. I think it goes back as far as Kate sleeping with the children one night on holiday therefore I don't wonder about sceptics wondering ... they've been doing so for twelve years.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 12, 2019, 04:31:37 PM
This is surely posted on the wrong thread ... it would be far more appropriate for the "Sceptics beliefs?' thread as at one time such rumours have been rife on sceptic fora and sometimes tabloids. I think it goes back as far as Kate sleeping with the children one night on holiday therefore I don't wonder about sceptics wondering ... they've been doing so for twelve years.
Are you saying the Sun is sceptical or at least the author of the piece is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 12, 2019, 04:40:45 PM
As a non-search related article about the mcCanns, published in a newspaper, it seems a perfect shoe-in for this thread.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 12, 2019, 05:35:37 PM
Sigh ... I didn't bother to read the link since there is a high probability I have encountered it all before in some shape or form.
Well seeing as theres nowt happening in the case and brexit is on its easter recess,might as well regurgitate same old,some one will buy a paper cause of it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 12, 2019, 06:56:53 PM
I seem to remember some people (mentioning no names) announcing the McCanns had split up on Twitter years ago, I reckon this would have made their day had it been true.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 12, 2019, 07:34:25 PM
I seem to remember some people (mentioning no names) announcing the McCanns had split up on Twitter years ago, I reckon this would have made their day had it been true.
It is a recurrent theme ... and sadly I have to agree it is one with the basest aspirations.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 12, 2019, 07:41:52 PM
I seem to remember some people (mentioning no names) announcing the McCanns had split up on Twitter years ago, I reckon this would have made their day had it been true.
Not likely ever to happen. The pair are forever united in a tragedy IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kizzy on April 13, 2019, 08:46:57 AM
I seem to remember some people (mentioning no names) announcing the McCanns had split up on Twitter years ago, I reckon this would have made their day had it been true.
Do you honestly think anyone cares - whether they stay together or not?
I would think for them - united we stand divided we fall.IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 13, 2019, 09:35:53 AM
I brought it to the forum as an example of irresposible and unnecessary journalism, which is what I said. If they had parted it might be of interest to some, although so many people part these days it wouldn't be all that interestng imo. It doesn't even say that, though, it just insinuates something in order to attract readers. Disgusting rag.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kizzy on April 13, 2019, 11:13:27 AM
I brought it to the forum as an example of irresposible and unnecessary journalism, which is what I said. If they had parted it might be of interest to some, although so many people part these days it wouldn't be all that interestng imo. It doesn't even say that, though, it just insinuates something in order to attract readers. Disgusting rag.
Just as I interpreted it as that - seems it was B who thought you cared. @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 13, 2019, 03:51:12 PM
Just as I interpreted it as that - seems it was B who thought you cared. @)(++(*
There are people like you on this forum who have no trouble at all understanding my motives and my posts. There are others who seem completely unable to do so for some reason.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on April 13, 2019, 03:59:16 PM
There are people like you on this forum who have no trouble at all understanding my motives and my posts. There are others who seem completely unable to do so for some reason.
They don't want to understand, you're contra to their belief system, so you're to be dismissed and ridiculed. However apparently anyone with a broadly unsupportive McCann stance are all 'sceptics' and are default irrational as a result.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 13, 2019, 04:03:17 PM
They don't want to understand, you're contra to their belief system, so you're to be dismissed and ridiculed. However apparently anyone with a broadly unsupportive McCann stance are all 'sceptics' and are default irrational as a result.
And you don't want to understand support of The McCanns. But your opinion is not dismissed on this Forum.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kizzy on April 13, 2019, 04:25:16 PM
They don't want to understand, you're contra to their belief system, so you're to be dismissed and ridiculed. However apparently anyone with a broadly unsupportive McCann stance are all 'sceptics' and are default irrational as a result.
I don't know who "they" are ... but speaking for myself, I comprehend exactly what is posted and if I don't get it - I ask.
It was only after some discussion on the forum that 'sceptic' and 'supporter' were chosen as the least offensive labels and as we know there are some downright nasty ones out there.
Very much a case of ... 'If the cap fits ... "
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on April 13, 2019, 06:36:12 PM
I'm in the process of redesigning the Website and would love to include pictures and comments from people who are helping in the search for Madeleine.
If you have a picture or comment and would like for me to include on the new Website, Email me at campaign@findmadeleine.com.
Also, state whether you give us permission to include on our Website and social media accounts.
~FM Digital Coordinator
How often do you check the McCann social media and websites? You seem to monitor it very closely, I wonder why you bother though...? What interests you about it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: niklasericson on April 16, 2019, 10:49:13 AM
I'am in the process of redesigning the Website and would love to include pictures and comments from people who are helping in the search for Madeleine.
If you have a picture or comment and would like for me to include on the new Website, Email me at campaign@findmadeleine.com.
Also, state whether you give us permission to include on our Website and social media accounts.
~FM Digital Coordinator
Some years back we could read on the "FM" site that the site was copyrighted in 2006, how come?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on April 18, 2019, 12:24:10 AM
For those who don’t believe a guilty person would actively campaign to have the crime they perpetrated reopened I’ll just leave this here.
I think the method counts. A march of a few hundred people is unlikely to achieve much. A high profile appeal to the PM via the biggest selling paper in the UK is likely to be more effective. Do you think that like, this man, the McCanns are psychopaths who revel in the attention and the thrill of it all?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2019, 08:31:40 AM
I think the method counts. A march of a few hundred people is unlikely to achieve much. A high profile appeal to the PM via the biggest selling paper in the UK is likely to be more effective. Do you think that like, this man, the McCanns are psychopaths who revel in the attention and the thrill of it all?
The McCanns devoted themselves to doing everything they possibly could to have Madeleine's case reopened. Initially by keeping the investigation into her disappearance going while all the time lobbying politically for the police to be allowed to do their jobs and look for her.
The constant attempts to link them with the dregs of society is one of the more distasteful and desperate aspects of the campaigns mounted against them.
It is also an abuse of this thread which is to discuss the "latest news" about Madeleine's case ... which surely is the the present search for her.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2019, 09:41:55 AM
The McCanns devoted themselves to doing everything they possibly could to have Madeleine's case reopened. Initially by keeping the investigation into her disappearance going while all the time lobbying politically for the police to be allowed to do their jobs and look for her.
The constant attempts to link them with the dregs of society is one of the more distasteful and desperate aspects of the campaigns mounted against them.
It is also an abuse of this thread which is to discuss the "latest news" about Madeleine's case ... which surely is the the present search for her.
The discussion is called latest news.....it specifically says that is not about the search.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2019, 11:07:50 AM
He didn't insigate the March... He took part in it... Totally different
A guilty person acted in a certain way in order to make people think he was innocent. That's the relevant fact, because some people think guilty people don't do that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2019, 11:21:43 AM
A guilty person acted in a certain way in order to make people think he was innocent. That's the relevant fact, because some people think guilty people don't do that.
its a relevant fact in your opinion...not in mine...you continually post your opinion as fact
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2019, 11:27:21 AM
its a relevant fact in your opinion...not in mine...you continually post your opinion as fact
It was suggested that guilty people don't campaign to have the case reopened. One guilty person did. Therefore it's possibie that others did the same. Simple, logical and possible.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2019, 11:47:33 AM
It was suggested that guilty people don't campaign to have the case reopened. One guilty person did. Therefore it's possibie that others did the same. Simple, logical and possible.
It's different... He tagged on to a campaign that was already taking place... He didn't instigate it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 18, 2019, 12:00:43 PM
In my opinion I've made ny point. I feel no need to discuss peripheral details.
By pure coincidence, I watched a historical crime case last night on TV. It was about a doctor. He thought his wife was having an affair, and in a fit of rage, he killed her. Their housemaid had seen him do it, so he murdered her too.
He then set about cleaning up the crime scene. That included removing ALL identifying details with a scalpel (bit gruesome) and disarticulating the bodies. He stored the body parts in multiple plastic bags. Then he went back to his normal routine, with no one suspecting one murder let alone two.
After a while, the body parts were beginning to smell. He drove to Scotland, where he found a fast-flowing river, and tossed the body parts in. He thought the river would sweep the body parts into the sea, and thus he would be safe.
Once again, he went back to his normal routine, living in the house where he had committed the murders, and being visited by his patients.
They enquired about his wife. He told them that she had gone to visit relatives, which was her habit. Once more, he was functioning perfectly normally, and no-one suspected a reputable doctor of murder.
After more time had passed, thinking he was quite safe, the doctor went to the police to report her missing. He then made multiple enquiries regarding police progress.
How he got caught is a long story. Suffice it to say, the river into which he had thrown the body parts was in a flash flood at the time, but it rapidly subsided, and several of the bags lodged on the river banks. One had split open. A passerby saw a body part and the police were alerted.
After a complex reconstruction, the doctor was tried for two murders, found guilty, and was hanged.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2019, 12:57:28 PM
By pure coincidence, I watched a historical crime case last night on TV. It was about a doctor. He thought his wife was having an affair, and in a fit of rage, he killed her. Their housemaid had seen him do it, so he murdered her too.
He then set about cleaning up the crime scene. That included removing ALL identifying details with a scalpel (bit gruesome) and disarticulating the bodies. He stored the body parts in multiple plastic bags. Then he went back to his normal routine, with no one suspecting one murder let alone two.
After a while, the body parts were beginning to smell. He drove to Scotland, where he found a fast-flowing river, and tossed the body parts in. He thought the river would sweep the body parts into the sea, and thus he would be safe.
Once again, he went back to his normal routine, living in the house where he had committed the murders, and being visited by his patients.
They enquired about his wife. He told them that she had gone to visit relatives, which was her habit. Once more, he was functioning perfectly normally, and no-one suspected a reputable doctor of murder.
After more time had passed, thinking he was quite safe, the doctor went to the police to report her missing. He then made multiple enquiries regarding police progress.
How he got caught is a long story. Suffice it to say, the river into which he had thrown the body parts was in a flash flood at the time, but it rapidly subsided, and several of the bags lodged on the river banks. One had split open. A passerby saw a body part and the police were alerted.
After a complex reconstruction, the doctor was tried for two murders, found guilty, and was hanged.
What relevance has that to Madeleine's case?
What relevance has it to 'latest news' about anything?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 18, 2019, 01:15:12 PM
It's 'latest', because I saw it last night. One does not get fresher than that.
It's "relevant", because no-one thought a reputable doctor could have committed a horrific crime. Until he got tried and hanged.
It's "relevant", because of his repeated desires that the police should inform him of progress.
It's clearly not search related.
I was replying to a post saying that whats-his-name had taken part in a demo march for, was it, the Babes in the Wood?
It just doesn't seem to be particularly unlikely behaviour, once someone believes they have got away with it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 18, 2019, 02:28:54 PM
Not wishing to be pedantic, but technically I saw it in the very early hours of this morning. As it was before I went to sleep I recounted it as last night. I call the morning as the time after I wake up at night.
Brietta still has a problem as to why a discussion about the historical Babes in the Woods is OK, whilst a discussion about another historical case involving an esteemed doctor seems to rankle.
Doctors can kill.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 18, 2019, 07:28:06 PM
Not wishing to be pedantic, but technically I saw it in the very early hours of this morning. As it was before I went to sleep I recounted it as last night. I call the morning as the time after I wake up at night.
Brietta still has a problem as to why a discussion about the historical Babes in the Woods is OK, whilst a discussion about another historical case involving an esteemed doctor seems to rankle.
Doctors can kill.
Have you only just realised..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on April 18, 2019, 07:34:11 PM
Not wishing to be pedantic, but technically I saw it in the very early hours of this morning. As it was before I went to sleep I recounted it as last night. I call the morning as the time after I wake up at night.
Brietta still has a problem as to why a discussion about the historical Babes in the Woods is OK, whilst a discussion about another historical case involving an esteemed doctor seems to rankle.
Doctors can kill.
John Bodkin Adams, Marcel Petiot, Robert George Clements, Thomas Neill Cream.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 18, 2019, 08:01:11 PM
What relevance has it to 'latest news' about anything?
When Ruxton heard the recitation of the charge, he stated: "Most emphatically not! Of course not! The farthest thing from my mind! What motive and why? What are you talking about?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Ruxton
Ruxton was insistent that both women would be found alive[114] and further stated that if the actual identification of the bodies was correct, his "happy home" was now in tatters. He ardently denied the earlier testimony of various prosecution witnesses, whom he frequently accused of either lying or simply being mistaken, and frequently gave rambling,[115] contradictory accounts of his own behaviour and actions prior to his arrest when questioned by both his own defence counsel and when subjected to cross-examination by the prosecution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Ruxton
"If You're Happy and You Know It......."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on April 18, 2019, 08:54:47 PM
Not wishing to be pedantic, but technically I saw it in the very early hours of this morning. As it was before I went to sleep I recounted it as last night. I call the morning as the time after I wake up at night.
Brietta still has a problem as to why a discussion about the historical Babes in the Woods is OK, whilst a discussion about another historical case involving an esteemed doctor seems to rankle.
Doctors can kill.
Who here has ever claimed otherwise?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 18, 2019, 10:38:12 PM
I just find Clarence Mitchell's propaganda that 'respected doctors' could not have done it to be baseless and absurd.
Please provide the exact quote, many thanks.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2019, 10:24:35 AM
I don't see anything wrong with Gerry's answer, I think he was expecting it. He goes on to explain how it was ridiculous in the sense that in the time span there was no way it could have been done.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kizzy on April 19, 2019, 11:27:26 AM
I don't see anything wrong with Gerry's answer, I think he was expecting it. He goes on to explain how it was ridiculous in the sense that in the time span there was no way it could have been done.
You don't know though what the so-called time span was - do you. L
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on April 19, 2019, 11:31:51 AM
I don't see anything wrong with Gerry's answer, I think he was expecting it. He goes on to explain how it was ridiculous in the sense that in the time span there was no way it could have been done.
We only heard some of Gerry’s answer. I believe the whole of it is included in MS’s latest podcast.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on April 19, 2019, 03:38:16 PM
The fact that the McCanns are not arguidos, the fact that the police have categorically said they are not suspects, the fact that other individuals havr been named as arguidos, the fact that after years and years of investigation they havent been charged, the fact that they continue to do well in their professional lives, have high profile roles, the fact that they are given sympathetic hearings by the media, that evidence.
Tell me why the police, having failed to nail any concrete evidence against them after all these years, would not use the tactic of piling on the pressure by announcing thst they were once again under investigation, in the hope that they might crack?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 20, 2019, 08:23:13 AM
The fact that the McCanns are not arguidos, the fact that the police have categorically said they are not suspects, the fact that other individuals havr been named as arguidos, the fact that after years and years of investigation they havent been charged, the fact that they continue to do well in their professional lives, have high profile roles, the fact that they are given sympathetic hearings by the media, that evidence.
Tell me why the police, having failed to nail any concrete evidence against them after all these years, would not use the tactic of piling on the pressure by announcing thst they were once again under investigation, in the hope that they might crack?
SY piled the pressure on the poor unfortunate chap in Portugal,didn't work did it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2019, 08:28:44 AM
The fact that the McCanns are not arguidos, the fact that the police have categorically said they are not suspects, the fact that other individuals havr been named as arguidos, the fact that after years and years of investigation they havent been charged, the fact that they continue to do well in their professional lives, have high profile roles, the fact that they are given sympathetic hearings by the media, that evidence.
Tell me why the police, having failed to nail any concrete evidence against them after all these years, would not use the tactic of piling on the pressure by announcing thst they were once again under investigation, in the hope that they might crack?
Do you seriously think that's evidence?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 20, 2019, 08:50:44 AM
Would you agree, that Barry George was cleared because of lack of evidence... I would, say that is a fact
It isn't a case I've gone into in any detail but I caught a small snippet of a documentary regarding the gunshot residue found on his clothing some time after the event.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with it. It was gunshot residue. It was found in his clothing. As I understand it the only problem was that the minuscule amount found wasn't specific to Barry George and that was sufficient to have him released and pardoned.
There wasn't even a minuscule anything found anywhere to justify the kangaroo trial by innuendo and media suffered by the McCann family for twelve years. All I can think of is that some people have been having too much fun to let go of it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 20, 2019, 10:06:27 AM
It isn't a case I've gone into in any detail but I caught a small snippet of a documentary regarding the gunshot residue found on his clothing some time after the event.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with it. It was gunshot residue. It was found in his clothing. As I understand it the only problem was that the minuscule amount found wasn't specific to Barry George and that was sufficient to have him released and pardoned.
There wasn't even a minuscule anything found anywhere to justify the kangaroo trial by innuendo and media suffered by the McCann family for twelve years. All I can think of is that some people have been having too much fun to let go of it.
Given there is miniscule evidence of anything,what do you suppose SY are doing at their offices? Cite for searching wouldn't go amiss from anyone.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2019, 10:11:06 AM
I'm aware of that... So what's your opinion... Has he been creared or not
In the eyes of the law yes,but whilst acknowlediging that, not innocent enough it seems,strange old thing british justice.Stefan Kitsko is testament to that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 20, 2019, 10:17:55 AM
Do you think the home office would have given them money to do nothing... And will continue to give them money to do nothing
I beleive Colin Sutton says there is no such thing as funding for one specific case in cold case reviews,besides its a line of inquiry not a line of investigation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2019, 10:18:12 AM
In the eyes of the law yes,but whilst acknowlediging that, not innocent enough it seems,strange old thing british justice.Stefan Kitsko is testament to that.
so hes been cleared on lack of evidence...or absence of evidence
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2019, 10:19:23 AM
I beleive Colin Sutton says there is no such thing as funding for one specific case in cold case reviews,besides its a line of inquiry not a line of investigation.
this does not apply to special funding for an individual case...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 20, 2019, 10:20:54 AM
Given there is miniscule evidence of anything,what do you suppose SY are doing at their offices? Cite for searching wouldn't go amiss from anyone.
Scotland Yard will have hundreds if not thousands of active cases on their books ... are you wondering what the officers dealing with them are doing in their offices? Apart from perhaps taking time out to deal with regularly incoming FOI requests?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on April 20, 2019, 10:24:36 AM
Scotland Yard will have hundreds if not thousands of active cases on their books ... are you wondering what the officers dealing with them are doing in their offices? Apart from perhaps taking time out to deal with regularly incoming FOI requests?
If there are numerous FOI request's its hardly likely officers would be dealing with them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2019, 10:29:39 AM
I beleive Colin Sutton says there is no such thing as funding for one specific case in cold case reviews,besides its a line of inquiry not a line of investigation.
The review stage finished in 2013. The request for funding was made because the review indicated many outstanding and unaddressed inquiries and evidence which required investigation in an open and active criminal enquiry.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2019, 10:32:36 AM
Of couse you would know better than a former Met police Detective.
im going by what he is saying....the met can only apply for special funding for special cases...they cant apply for special funding them spend it on something else...that would be fraud
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2019, 11:24:07 AM
But as yet not suspects in the lengthy investigation of both investigating police forces.
There are no suspects of a crime yet to be established. Not a one- none- AND Not being a suspect is not the same as being 'innocent' of a crime which has yet to be established.
For those from a different country who may not comprehend this - The parents have NOT been tried in a court of law therefor are Not declared innocent by anyone. even though many supporters make this claim.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on April 20, 2019, 12:06:55 PM
There are no suspects of a crime yet to be established. Not a one- none- AND Not being a suspect is not the same as being 'innocent' of a crime which has yet to be established.
For those from a different country who may not comprehend this - The parents have NOT been tried in a court of law therefor are Not declared innocent by anyone. even though many supporters make this claim.
For those from a different country, the McCanns have not been tried in a court of law because they have never been charged or even suspected by two police investigations. Sceptics have difficulty understanding this.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2019, 12:17:17 PM
For those from a different country, the McCanns have not been tried in a court of law because they have never been charged or even suspected by two police investigations. Sceptics have difficulty understanding this.
Well that's not true. They were suspected of involvement by the Portuguese police, correctly IMO.
Nobody has been charged with anything
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on April 20, 2019, 12:20:31 PM
could we have a cite for this one as well...or is this just gossip
It's in one of the 10th anniversary specials, whichever CM appeared in. Presumably the ITV one, because I can't remember him being in the Panorama one.
By the way, your current flurry of requests for cites is dragging the debate down. John has made clear that cites are required for important instances only. That excludes trivial attempts at points scoring, and goading.
*&(+(+
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2019, 12:26:09 PM
It's in one of the 10th anniversary specials, whichever CM appeared in. Presumably the ITV one, because I can't remember him being in the Panorama one.
By the way, your current flurry of requests for cites is dragging the debate down. John has made clear that cites are required for important instances only. That excludes trivial attempts at points scoring, and goading.
*&(+(+
so you dont have a cite....we dont know exactly what was said in the programme and you admit you cant remember things as per your post above..you also failed to give a cite for your claim of a stateemnt by mitchell..
John said cites are required....I can post the exact wording if you like...where has john said cites are only required for important things...cite please...
without cites the forum willl descend into posts of gossip...opinion based as fact etc...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2019, 12:28:05 PM
It's in one of the 10th anniversary specials, whichever CM appeared in. Presumably the ITV one, because I can't remember him being in the Panorama one.
By the way, your current flurry of requests for cites is dragging the debate down. John has made clear that cites are required for important instances only. That excludes trivial attempts at points scoring, and goading.
*&(+(+
this is what JOhn said.. Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.
From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.
Moderators and Editors take note!
you have made two significant claims....and not provided a cite for either...you have obvioulsly misunderstood what John said and therefore may have misunderstood the other two points you claim
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 20, 2019, 12:29:42 PM
For those from a different country, the McCanns have not been tried in a court of law because they have never been charged or even suspected by two police investigations. Sceptics have difficulty understanding this.
They have not been charged because the word is there is NOT ENOUGH evidence to charge them. They were suspected by the PJ of staging an abduction. And concealing a body. The first part is easy to establilsh the second no so much.
Again THEY CAN NOT BE DECLARED SUSPECTS of a crime UNKNOWN.
supporters have great difficulty in trying to hoodwink non supporters into thinking they have been declared innocent by not being declared as suspects... it just isn't working you see.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2019, 12:32:42 PM
They have not been charged because the word is there is NOT ENOUGH evidence to charge them. They were suspected by the PJ of staging an abduction. And concealing a body. The first part is easy to establilsh the second no so much.
Again THEY CAN NOT BE DECLARED SUSPECTS of a crime UNKNOWN.
supporters have great difficulty in trying to hoodwink non supporters into thinking they have been declared innocent by not being declared as suspects... it just isn't working you see.
no one....and not the mccanns ...have claimed that they have been declared innocent
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 20, 2019, 12:47:34 PM
Play on words... not being declaired suspects= declared innocent in supporters mindset.
In other words ... anyone against whom there is insufficient evidence to proceed must be guilty. How does that pan out as far as the latest arguidos are concerned? By your reasoning they must also be guilty.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 20, 2019, 12:56:47 PM
In other words ... anyone against whom there is insufficient evidence to proceed must be guilty. How does that pan out as far as the latest arguidos are concerned? By your reasoning they must also be guilty.
No it is not my reasoning at all. I have never mentioned guilt or innocence. I am merely correcting the assumtion being played by supporters that two police services investigating are saying the parents are not suspects- without declaring what the crime is. Therefore trying to equate not suspects as they are innocent.
AS Soon as we know what the crimes is- we can then hear who the suspects are and who is not. So it is fair to say there are NO SUSPECTS IN a case where no crime has been defined?
Would you agree with that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2019, 01:00:11 PM
No it is not my reasoning at all. I have never mentioned guilt or innocence. I am merely correcting the assumtion being played by supporters that two police services investigating are saying the parents are not suspects- without declaring what the crime is. Therefore trying to equate not suspects as they are innocent.
AS Soon as we know what the crimes is- we can then hear who the suspects are and who is not. So it is fair to say there are NO SUSPECTS IN a case where no crime has been defined?
Would you agree with that?
Using your criteria and the criteria which is used by others ... the most recent arguidos must be guilty.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 20, 2019, 01:13:54 PM
Using your criteria and the criteria which is used by others ... the most recent arguidos must be guilty.
No, I have said. the PJ suspected them of two things - they are the investigating team. The PJ have not declared them guilty or innocent. Just as suspects of a crime they have mentioned as a theory.
I would appreciate it if you would refrain from associating me with 'others' unless you can prove that I, with these named others, share the same thoughts. And while we're at it - it would be really helpful if you would stop from trying to create a 'gang' of sceptics all belonging to the same thought process as the supporters do. we are different and have different views and opinions.
As a mod this should be a natural task to accommplish. Being neutral and all that jazz
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2019, 01:20:10 PM
Scotland Yard will have hundreds if not thousands of active cases on their books ... are you wondering what the officers dealing with them are doing in their offices? Apart from perhaps taking time out to deal with regularly incoming FOI requests?
Or dodgy dossiers from busybodies.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 20, 2019, 01:54:19 PM
I think he is saying it doesn't matter and after twelve years it is highly blikley they are not involved, although it does suggest that before the 12 years they may have been.. oh no wait... erm.. um... nah I don't now either.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on April 20, 2019, 02:02:07 PM
I think he is saying it doesn't matter and after twelve years it is highly blikley they are not involved, although it does suggest that before the 12 years they may have been.. oh no wait... erm.. um... nah I don't now either.
Highly blikley.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on April 20, 2019, 02:07:41 PM
this is what JOhn said.. Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.
From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.
Moderators and Editors take note!
you have made two significant claims....and not provided a cite for either...you have obvioulsly misunderstood what John said and therefore may have misunderstood the other two points you claim
As neither 'claim' was significant, and my posts have not been deleted, you have just provided the cite that supports my contention.
*&(+(+
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2019, 02:34:36 PM
No more Goading. If you please. This is not a request.
Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.
From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.
Moderators and Editors take note!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 20, 2019, 02:59:44 PM
Members are reminded that cites must be provided in accordance with the forum rules. On several occasions recently cites have been requested but never provided. Asking for a cite is not goading but compliance.
From this moment onward, posts making significant claims which are not backed up by a cite will be removed.
Moderators and Editors take note!
The accusation of Goading was not levelled at you on this occasion.
Sometimes in cases of Insignificant Comments a Cite is not really necessary.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on April 20, 2019, 03:06:19 PM
SY piled the pressure on the poor unfortunate chap in Portugal,didn't work did it.
So you won’t name him, never mind. Piling pressure on guilty people so that they crack usually only works on guilty people, so perhaps that’s why it didn’t work on him. If you believe that the McCanns are guilty why do you think the police would not want to pile the pressure onto them, seeing as how after years and years of supposedly investigating them they still have not cracked the case?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2019, 06:18:15 PM
They have not been charged because the word is there is NOT ENOUGH evidence to charge them. They were suspected by the PJ of staging an abduction. And concealing a body. The first part is easy to establilsh the second no so much.
Again THEY CAN NOT BE DECLARED SUSPECTS of a crime UNKNOWN.
supporters have great difficulty in trying to hoodwink non supporters into thinking they have been declared innocent by not being declared as suspects... it just isn't working you see.
If it’s easy to establish that theMcCanns staged an abduction why has no one done so in twelve years?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on April 20, 2019, 06:49:02 PM
No one said it was easy. By the same token, it hasn't proved easy to demonstrate a realistic alternative.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2019, 06:55:09 PM
That's patently untrue. Hence why the old adage is 'torture doesn't work'; because eventually they will tell you anything, whether they did it or not.
Inwasn’t talking about torture, I was talking about putting pressure on the McCanns by announcing that they were being reinvestigated. A bit of a difference. PS Did yoy know it’s bad form to amend another user’s posts when quoting?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on April 20, 2019, 08:59:06 PM
Inwasn’t talking about torture, I was talking about putting pressure on the McCanns by announcing that they were being reinvestigated. A bit of a difference. PS Did yoy know it’s bad form to amend another user’s posts when quoting?
I didn't amend it, I snipped the pertinent part. The content remained the same. No-one wants a gigantic quote, three pages long......but duly noted. And 'putting pressure on' is on the same spectrum of torture, way down the scale admittedly. But in context, 'putting pressure' on a vulnerable person will have the same effect, they fold like a pillow case and admit anything.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2019, 09:00:34 PM
I didn't amend it, I snipped the pertinent part. The content remained the same. No-one wants a gigantic quote, three pages long......but duly noted. And 'putting pressure on' is on the same spectrum of torture, way down the scale admittedly. But in context, 'putting pressure' on a vulnerable person will have the same effect, they fold like a pillow case and admit anything.
Is this not a tactic the police are known to use to elicit a confession then?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on April 20, 2019, 09:05:16 PM
Is this not a tactic the police are known to use to elicit a confession then?
I would say some pressure has to be applied in a lot of cases to get a confession. "Get it off your chest" Appearing to be concerned for the perpetrator, "you'll feel better when you get it off your chest". And when they confess, they face years of time in prison. Did it help them to clear their conscience?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 20, 2019, 09:21:03 PM
No, I have said. the PJ suspected them of two things - they are the investigating team. The PJ have not declared them guilty or innocent. Just as suspects of a crime they have mentioned as a theory.
I would appreciate it if you would refrain from associating me with 'others' unless you can prove that I, with these named others, share the same thoughts. And while we're at it - it would be really helpful if you would stop from trying to create a 'gang' of sceptics all belonging to the same thought process as the supporters do. we are different and have different views and opinions.
As a mod this should be a natural task to accommplish. Being neutral and all that jazz
Please reread my post with more care than you did first time around ...
"Using your criteria" means exactly what it says when I say "yours" "and the criteria which is used by others" also means precisely what it says when I say "by others" You have not been associated with others ... you have your own billing.
As a mod I am required to moderate impartially ... as a member I am allowed the same freedom of speech as any other member, following the same rules.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 20, 2019, 10:51:50 PM
That's patently untrue. Hence why the old adage is 'torture doesn't work'; because eventually they will tell you anything, whether they did it or not.
Unless it seems, your name happens to be Leonor Cipriano.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on April 23, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
The statistic that gives the McCanns hope – and could equally apply to Ben Needham.
"...the people who've got the most experience are the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) in the United States, and one of the earliest things that stuck with me ever since then is the younger [they are] at the time a child is taken, the more likely they've been taken to be kept alive." Gerry McCann
The statistic that gives the McCanns hope – and could equally apply to Ben Needham.
"...the people who've got the most experience are the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) in the United States, and one of the earliest things that stuck with me ever since then is the younger [they are] at the time a child is taken, the more likely they've been taken to be kept alive." Gerry McCann
The statistic that gives the McCanns hope – and could equally apply to Ben Needham.
"...the people who've got the most experience are the National Centre for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) in the United States, and one of the earliest things that stuck with me ever since then is the younger [they are] at the time a child is taken, the more likely they've been taken to be kept alive." Gerry McCann
Stranger abductions are rare, especially involving very young children. I think it would be difficult to predict anything from such small numbers of cases.
According to the federal governmebt only about 100 cases per year can be classified as abductions by strangers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_in_the_United_States
in 2010-2011 only 11 stranger abductions in the US involved children between the ages of 3 anf 5 years. https://reason.com/2017/03/31/kidnapping-stats/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on April 23, 2019, 12:52:16 PM
Absolutely. She would have been lighter and therefore easier to lift from her bed and carry away, through limited vocabulary would have had less likely to alert strangers to her true identity and also would have had less memory of her former life as time went by....and of course she was a younger, mirror image of Madeleine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on April 23, 2019, 02:05:53 PM
Absolutely. She would have been lighter and therefore easier to lift from her bed and carry away, through limited vocabulary would have had less likely to alert strangers to her true identity and also would have had less memory of her former life as time went by....and of course she was a younger, mirror image of Madeleine.
All of those reasons are valid. I suppose trying to put myself in to the thought processes of an abductor, maybe Madeleine would kick up a fuss when disturbed, so you'd have to take her, but surely she'd be kicking and screaming. You'd have to literally park right outside and bundle her in to the vehicle very quickly and then beat a hasty retreat.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on April 23, 2019, 03:58:03 PM
All of those reasons are valid. I suppose trying to put myself in to the thought processes of an abductor, maybe Madeleine would kick up a fuss when disturbed, so you'd have to take her, but surely she'd be kicking and screaming. You'd have to literally park right outside and bundle her in to the vehicle very quickly and then beat a hasty retreat.
Ever tried to negotiate with a child of Amelie's age?
I think the younger child would have created quite a disturbance ... she was at the age when children can make quite a noise.
The older child could be frozen by fear having a better grasp that something untoward was happening and unable to make any noise at all ... or she may have been told she was being taken to her parents ...but some sort of communication was possible.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 23, 2019, 04:30:05 PM
Unless you are an abductor or molester of children I don’t really think it’s possible to give an answer to that question, as normal logic doesn’t necessarily apply.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on April 23, 2019, 04:46:41 PM
If all of the children had been sedated by the Abductor, no problem.
Amelie? Nappy changing and baby food issues while in transit. And it wouldn't be a good idea to separate Twins from an emotional point of view.
Plus, mayhap someone wanted a child of a particular age.
Questions will be welcome. I will answer them if I can. So let's not be silly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on April 23, 2019, 05:16:04 PM
Paedophile, anaesthetist child abductor man.
Enters the apartment, somehow, sedates the 3 children, wastes time messing around with the window & shutters then makes off with Maddie on foot.
Right'o.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on April 23, 2019, 06:02:54 PM
Ever tried to negotiate with a child of Amelie's age?
I think the younger child would have created quite a disturbance ... she was at the age when children can make quite a noise.
The older child could be frozen by fear having a better grasp that something untoward was happening and unable to make any noise at all ... or she may have been told she was being taken to her parents ...but some sort of communication was possible.
I have a step-granddaughter who is Madeleine’s age when she disappeared and she’d create merry hell if a stranger tried to carry her off, no matter what the abductor told her.....much like Madeleine’s grandmother said Madeleine would.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on April 23, 2019, 07:11:42 PM
I have a step-granddaughter who is Madeleine’s age when she disappeared and she’d create merry hell if a stranger tried to carry her off, no matter what the abductor told her.....much like Madeleine’s grandmother said Madeleine would.
You really have no idea how she would react in the circumstances, just like the people who claim a child carried off by an abductor would scream the place down. Did Alesha McPhail?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on April 28, 2019, 10:50:53 PM
'Kate McCann was MI5 spy': Portuguese newspaper makes crazy allegation that missing Madeleine's mother was member of security services Kate McCann was a secret MI5 agent when her daughter Madeleine McCann went missing, it has been outrageously claimed.
A Portuguese newspaper linked anguished Kate, 51, to the UK's counter-intelligence service in a new slur in the run-up to the 12th anniversary of the youngster's unsolved disappearance.
A McCan family spokesperson, addressing the claims, said: 'These are absolutely absurd and ridiculous allegations, which Madeleine's parents are certain no one in their right mind would even consider believing.
'It is unmitigated garble and yet more nonsense they are having to endure at a very painful and difficult time for them.'
Veteran journalist Jose Antonio Saraiva fed the wild conspiracy theories surrounding the mystery by alleging a female doctor had contacted him to insist Madeleine's disappearance was linked to her parents' 'secret activity' because of her mum's 'suspected' MI5 membership.
Kate (pictured with husband Gerry McCann) has been wildly accused of being a member of the UK's counter-intelligence service in the run-up to the 12th anniversary of their daughter's unsolved disappearance Kate (pictured with husband Gerry McCann) has been wildly accused of being a member of the UK's counter-intelligence service in the run-up to the 12th anniversary of their daughter's unsolved disappearance And he gave the hair-brained idea oxygen in Sol - the weekly national Portuguese newspaper he founded nearly 13 years ago - by claiming it might explain Gordon Brown's decision to 'dispatch' then-British Ambassador John Buck to Praia da Luz after the youngster vanished from the McCanns' Algarve holiday apartment.
Disgraced ex-Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral, who features heavily in the new Netflix documentary on the Madeleine McCann case, claimed last year MI5 spies helped to cover up her death and disappearance.
Amaral, the original lead investigator in the case before his October 2007 sacking for criticising the British police, said British secret agents 'for sure had an involvement' in an Australian documentary which aired last April.
The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann: On Netflix from March 15th
Jose Antonio Saraiva, who wrote the piece for newspaper Sol, said a female genetics doctor he named only as H. Santos had identified Kate McCann as an MI5 agent and claimed it explained her daughter's disappearance, but also singled out husband Gerry as a potential spy Jose Antonio Saraiva, who wrote the piece for newspaper Sol, said a female genetics doctor he named only as H. Santos had identified Kate McCann as an MI5 agent and claimed it explained her daughter's disappearance, but also singled out husband Gerry as a potential spy Lisbon-born Saraiva, who trained as an architect before becoming a journalist, said a female genetics doctor he named only as H. Santos had identified Kate McCann as an MI5 agent and claimed it explained her daughter's disappearance, although husband Gerry was also singled out as a a potential spy.
Writing in Sol, which sells to thousands of copies every week, he fuelled the hurtful claim and wrongly identified Gerry and former Prime Minister Gordon Brown as old schoolmates.
Saraiva writes: 'This would explain the immediate dispatch to Portugal of a representative of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and future Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
Madeleine McCann disappeared on the May 3 2007 from her bed in a holiday apartment in the resort of Praia da Luz. Despite several international police investigations, the whereabouts of the missing youngster remain unknown Madeleine McCann disappeared on the May 3 2007 from her bed in a holiday apartment in the resort of Praia da Luz. Despite several international police investigations, the whereabouts of the missing youngster remain unknown 'It was said that Brown did it because he was Gerry's schoolmate. But this explanation doesn't wash.
'The English are very formal and there's not the cronyism there that characterises southern Europe.
'A minister doesn't send an official representative to find out about the disappearance of a little girl because he went to school with her father.'
Gerry McCann and Gordon Brown never attended the same school or university, but the ex-PM is known to the McCann's family through links to one of his sisters.
Brown went to Kirkcaldy West Primary School and High School before beginning a long academic life at Edinburgh University, whereas Gerry McCann went to a primary in Glasgow, Holyrood Secondary School and Glasgow University on the other side of the country.
Kate and Gerry McCann have spoken in the past about the hurt that speculation and conspiracy theories have caused the family.
Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said their refusal to take part in new Netflix series 'The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann' was based on their belief it may encourage conspiracy theorists and would do nothing to help with the ongoing search for her.
In making reference to the theories thrown about online, he told This Morning last month 'the worst of human nature' was spread across social media.
Kate McCann insisted from the outset her daughter had been abducted and she and her husband took Goncalo Amaral to court over his claims in controversial 2008 book 'The Truth of the Lie' that they had covered up her accidental death in their holiday apartment.
Mr Mitchell revealed last year in an interview one of the 'most ridiculous' conspiracy theories he had ever heard was that Madeleine was 'born as the result of a government cloning project'.
Gerry McCann said two years ago of the hurtful fake accusations: 'I'm sure it is a very small minority of people who spend their time doing it, but it has totally inhibited what we do.' —————
Well I guess as there’s no proof Kate isn’t a spy and it does appear in a highly esteemed Portuguese newspaper not remotely like the Sun we should not dismiss this claim out of hand, right folks?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on April 30, 2019, 10:51:39 PM
'Kate McCann was MI5 spy': Portuguese newspaper makes crazy allegation that missing Madeleine's mother was member of security services Kate McCann was a secret MI5 agent when her daughter Madeleine McCann went missing, it has been outrageously claimed.
A Portuguese newspaper linked anguished Kate, 51, to the UK's counter-intelligence service in a new slur in the run-up to the 12th anniversary of the youngster's unsolved disappearance.
A McCan family spokesperson, addressing the claims, said: 'These are absolutely absurd and ridiculous allegations, which Madeleine's parents are certain no one in their right mind would even consider believing.
'It is unmitigated garble and yet more nonsense they are having to endure at a very painful and difficult time for them.'
Veteran journalist Jose Antonio Saraiva fed the wild conspiracy theories surrounding the mystery by alleging a female doctor had contacted him to insist Madeleine's disappearance was linked to her parents' 'secret activity' because of her mum's 'suspected' MI5 membership.
Kate (pictured with husband Gerry McCann) has been wildly accused of being a member of the UK's counter-intelligence service in the run-up to the 12th anniversary of their daughter's unsolved disappearance Kate (pictured with husband Gerry McCann) has been wildly accused of being a member of the UK's counter-intelligence service in the run-up to the 12th anniversary of their daughter's unsolved disappearance And he gave the hair-brained idea oxygen in Sol - the weekly national Portuguese newspaper he founded nearly 13 years ago - by claiming it might explain Gordon Brown's decision to 'dispatch' then-British Ambassador John Buck to Praia da Luz after the youngster vanished from the McCanns' Algarve holiday apartment.
Disgraced ex-Portuguese police chief Goncalo Amaral, who features heavily in the new Netflix documentary on the Madeleine McCann case, claimed last year MI5 spies helped to cover up her death and disappearance.
Amaral, the original lead investigator in the case before his October 2007 sacking for criticising the British police, said British secret agents 'for sure had an involvement' in an Australian documentary which aired last April.
The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann: On Netflix from March 15th
Jose Antonio Saraiva, who wrote the piece for newspaper Sol, said a female genetics doctor he named only as H. Santos had identified Kate McCann as an MI5 agent and claimed it explained her daughter's disappearance, but also singled out husband Gerry as a potential spy Jose Antonio Saraiva, who wrote the piece for newspaper Sol, said a female genetics doctor he named only as H. Santos had identified Kate McCann as an MI5 agent and claimed it explained her daughter's disappearance, but also singled out husband Gerry as a potential spy Lisbon-born Saraiva, who trained as an architect before becoming a journalist, said a female genetics doctor he named only as H. Santos had identified Kate McCann as an MI5 agent and claimed it explained her daughter's disappearance, although husband Gerry was also singled out as a a potential spy.
Writing in Sol, which sells to thousands of copies every week, he fuelled the hurtful claim and wrongly identified Gerry and former Prime Minister Gordon Brown as old schoolmates.
Saraiva writes: 'This would explain the immediate dispatch to Portugal of a representative of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and future Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
Madeleine McCann disappeared on the May 3 2007 from her bed in a holiday apartment in the resort of Praia da Luz. Despite several international police investigations, the whereabouts of the missing youngster remain unknown Madeleine McCann disappeared on the May 3 2007 from her bed in a holiday apartment in the resort of Praia da Luz. Despite several international police investigations, the whereabouts of the missing youngster remain unknown 'It was said that Brown did it because he was Gerry's schoolmate. But this explanation doesn't wash.
'The English are very formal and there's not the cronyism there that characterises southern Europe.
'A minister doesn't send an official representative to find out about the disappearance of a little girl because he went to school with her father.'
Gerry McCann and Gordon Brown never attended the same school or university, but the ex-PM is known to the McCann's family through links to one of his sisters.
Brown went to Kirkcaldy West Primary School and High School before beginning a long academic life at Edinburgh University, whereas Gerry McCann went to a primary in Glasgow, Holyrood Secondary School and Glasgow University on the other side of the country.
Kate and Gerry McCann have spoken in the past about the hurt that speculation and conspiracy theories have caused the family.
Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell said their refusal to take part in new Netflix series 'The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann' was based on their belief it may encourage conspiracy theorists and would do nothing to help with the ongoing search for her.
In making reference to the theories thrown about online, he told This Morning last month 'the worst of human nature' was spread across social media.
Kate McCann insisted from the outset her daughter had been abducted and she and her husband took Goncalo Amaral to court over his claims in controversial 2008 book 'The Truth of the Lie' that they had covered up her accidental death in their holiday apartment.
Mr Mitchell revealed last year in an interview one of the 'most ridiculous' conspiracy theories he had ever heard was that Madeleine was 'born as the result of a government cloning project'.
Gerry McCann said two years ago of the hurtful fake accusations: 'I'm sure it is a very small minority of people who spend their time doing it, but it has totally inhibited what we do.' —————
Well I guess as there’s no proof Kate isn’t a spy and it does appear in a highly esteemed Portuguese newspaper not remotely like the Sun we should not dismiss this claim out of hand, right folks?
Would Kate make a good candidate as a spy? well she knows how not to answer questions- under duress...
I suppose reading rubbish like this is no different than reading the rubbish in Kates serialised book in the sun...same ole same ole
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 01, 2019, 08:37:06 AM
Perhaps she could play the role of Ms Honeytrap. Then again, maybe not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 01, 2019, 09:13:15 AM
Are we still posting links to The s..m? Can't we agree on a moratorium?
Kate McCann spy.......ludicrous.
But the timing of release is designed for maximum impact - and it seems to be working.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 01, 2019, 09:16:08 AM
Well we're talking about it right now. So whether we think it's ludicrous or not, whether the sources are credible or not and whether the S*n is a pile if sh** or not, we're talking about it. No doubt the vitriol and support has been stirred in proportion too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 01, 2019, 10:18:09 AM
Well we're talking about it right now. So whether we think it's ludicrous or not, whether the sources are credible or not and whether the S*n is a pile if sh** or not, we're talking about it. No doubt the vitriol and support has been stirred in proportion too.
I think three people and their dog talking about this nonsense on a forum such as this hardly constitutes "working" and I'm not sure to what end you think it would be working anyway, apart from as clickbait which is clearly all it is. Perhaps that's what you meant.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 01, 2019, 10:33:06 AM
I think three people and their dog talking about this nonsense on a forum such as this hardly constitutes "working" and I'm not sure to what end you think it would be working anyway, apart from as clickbait which is clearly all it is. Perhaps that's what you meant.
It's all of that. The 'reach' I can't calculate, but it's reached this little corner of the internet with 3 dudes, a cat and a whippet. What was it in, The S*n, so we've discussed their readership previously, plus the webpage visits. Then extend it out to all the links to the rag, then all the people on twitter, facepage, FaceSpace, etc...... But it's all unfounded tittle tattle which the British public seem to like.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 01, 2019, 10:44:54 AM
It's all of that. The 'reach' I can't calculate, but it's reached this little corner of the internet with 3 dudes, a cat and a whippet. What was it in, The S*n, so we've discussed their readership previously, plus the webpage visits. Then extend it out to all the links to the rag, then all the people on twitter, facepage, FaceSpace, etc...... But it's all unfounded tittle tattle which the British public seem to like.
It certainly has appeared to 'work' after a fashion for self publicist Mark Saunokonoko as the masses wait with bated breath for the revelations of a disgraced cop about the inner workings of an investigation about which he probably knows as much as you or me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 01, 2019, 10:52:57 AM
It certainly has appeared to 'work' after a fashion for self publicist Mark Saunokonoko as the masses wait with bated breath for the revelations of a disgraced cop about the inner workings of an investigation about which he probably knows as much as you or me.
As far as I can see, his podcasts cover rather more than just the opinion of a retired police officer and reach a wide audience.
Do you have a problem with that ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 01, 2019, 10:55:38 AM
It seems forensic science analysis is in crisis ..seems the FSSwas a lot more reliable than some think
The committee said that, throughout its inquiry, it heard about a decline in forensic science, especially since the controversial closure in 2012 of the Forensic Science Service (FSS), which was publicly owned.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 01, 2019, 10:33:40 PM
It seems forensic science analysis is in crisis ..seems the FSSwas a lot more reliable than some think
The committee said that, throughout its inquiry, it heard about a decline in forensic science, especially since the controversial closure in 2012 of the Forensic Science Service (FSS), which was publicly owned.
Quincy will be turning in his grave.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 03, 2019, 10:56:58 AM
The mail is reporting that the PJ are investigating a new kidnao suspect and the parents, are not suspects ..that's going to upset the sceptics and Mark S
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on May 03, 2019, 11:09:38 AM
The mail is reporting that the PJ are investigating a new kidnao suspect and the parents, are not suspects ..that's going to upset the sceptics and Mark S
I think Barrier posted a link to this in the Latest News thread.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 03, 2019, 11:10:26 AM
The mail is reporting that the PJ are investigating a new kidnao suspect and the parents, are not suspects ..that's going to upset the sceptics and Mark S
I almost broke out an emoji then. 'The sceptics' - all of them, of course, even the ones oblivious to the story, are all now upset. It's The Mail, that most trustworthy and veracious of all daily publications.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 03, 2019, 11:12:29 AM
I almost broke out an emoji then. 'The sceptics' - all of them, of course, even the ones oblivious to the story, are all now upset. It's The Mail, that most trustworthy and veracious of all daily publications.
Article is not by 'family friend' Tracey is it ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 03, 2019, 11:14:07 AM
I almost broke out an emoji then. 'The sceptics' - all of them, of course, even the ones oblivious to the story, are all now upset. It's The Mail, that most trustworthy and veracious of all daily publications.
It's in the Portuguese paper CDM... I suppose the sceptics can just put their fingers in their ears and pretend it isn't happening
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 03, 2019, 11:15:26 AM
I wonder what damning evidence they have against them?
Possession of a mobile phone...
I think you will have to ask the Judicial police based in Porto for the answer to that one ... but whatever, according to the exclusive in CM ... their interest is not directed at Madeleine's parents.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 03, 2019, 11:31:43 AM
I think you will have to ask the Judicial police based in Porto for the answer to that one ... but whatever, according to the exclusive in CM ... their interest is not directed at Madeleine's parents.
That doesn't mean they didn't do it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 03, 2019, 11:37:45 AM
I think you will have to ask the Judicial police based in Porto for the answer to that one ... but whatever, according to the exclusive in CM ... their interest is not directed at Madeleine's parents.
I'm sure that will be great comfort for supporters ?{)(**
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 03, 2019, 11:39:42 AM
If it's true, it would appear that the Portuguese Police are making more progress than the four bobbies in OG.
Ah but are there 4,there was another story I linked to in the latest news section which said "a very small team" so how many is very small. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=post;quote=524945;topic=8490.4350;last_msg=524956
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 03, 2019, 11:53:20 AM
"Great news for Madeleine McCann's parents because, as each period of funding comes to an end they must fear Scotland Yard is about to pull the plug," Martin Brunt, Sky News crime correspondent, told the channel.
"Clearly, Scotland Yard feels it is worth continuing.
"This development might means there is new confidence there is a breakthrough in the investigation, or this final sensitive theory that they've been pursuing for two years is proving to be more complicated, more sensitive than they thought at the start.
"But clearly officers feel it is worth carrying on with this investigation."
VS posted Brunt saying it was asking for 12 months funding back in the begining of March,couldn't see a link posted but hey oh.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 03, 2019, 12:17:12 PM
I think you will have to ask the Judicial police based in Porto for the answer to that one ... but whatever, according to the exclusive in CM ... their interest is not directed at Madeleine's parents.
I thought the reopened investigation was based in Portimao?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 03, 2019, 01:57:48 PM
"On the very day that interrogation of the McCann couple starts ... "
"We explain to Stuart that the McCanns interrogations would not result in detention." Goncalo Amaral
I'm making light of it because as it fits your narrative, 'interrogation' seems way harsher than 'interview'. Yet Amaral discusses 'interrogation' in a matter of fact manner, as depicted in your useful quotes. It's a police interview. I don't remember Murat being too disparaging about the 'interrogation'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 03, 2019, 03:35:11 PM
If the PJ arrest this paedophile...and find there is no evidence against him... But he confesses to all charges after a severe beating.. Will sceptics accept that as a reasonable outcome
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 03, 2019, 03:46:30 PM
If the PJ arrest this paedophile...and find there is no evidence against him... But he confesses to all charges after a severe beating.. Will sceptics accept that as a reasonable outcome
What a silly proposition!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 03, 2019, 04:00:56 PM
Cipriano confessed after a severe beating... It was proven in court
There was the hypothetical situation as well. Something about another suspect being beaten and confessing. We would only know this if we had the "eye of God" or access to CCTV within the interrogation room.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2019, 05:09:36 PM
There was the hypothetical situation as well. Something about another suspect being beaten and confessing. We would only know this if we had the "eye of God" or access to CCTV within the interrogation room.
You aren't making any sense.. We know cipriani was beaten by the pj
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 03, 2019, 05:15:35 PM
Aren’t the parents paying a Portuguese PR company, Lift something I believe. What better way to distance yourself from the comment than having a ‘Portuguese source’ giving us the information.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2019, 05:17:01 PM
Who knows but you originally said in post "http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8490.msg525026#msg525026
"If the PJ arrest this paedophile...and find there is no evidence against him... But he confesses to all charges after a severe beating.. Will sceptics accept that as a reasonable outcome."
That to me is a hypothetical situation. hypothetical
adjective 1. based on or serving as a hypothesis. "let us take a hypothetical case" noun 1. a hypothetical proposition or statement. "officials refuse to discuss military policy except in coy hypotheticals"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2019, 05:18:17 PM
Aren’t the parents paying a Portuguese PR company, Lift something I believe. What better way to distance yourself from the comment than having a ‘Portuguese source’ giving us the information.
Cite or source of your information.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2019, 05:21:27 PM
Aren’t the parents paying a Portuguese PR company, Lift something I believe. What better way to distance yourself from the comment than having a ‘Portuguese source’ giving us the information.
Are they? A cite would be good, thanks.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 03, 2019, 05:22:03 PM
Who knows but you originally said in post "http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8490.msg525026#msg525026
"If the PJ arrest this paedophile...and find there is no evidence against him... But he confesses to all charges after a severe beating.. Will sceptics accept that as a reasonable outcome."
That to me is a hypothetical situation. hypothetical
adjective 1. based on or serving as a hypothesis. "let us take a hypothetical case" noun 1. a hypothetical proposition or statement. "officials refuse to discuss military policy except in coy hypotheticals"
That part is. Cipriani isnt.. The point is... If this suspect confessed... But there was no evidence... Would posters here accept he was guilty
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 05:23:37 PM
That part is. Cipriani isnt.. The point is... If this suspect confessed... But there was no evidence... Would posters here accept he was guilty
From what I know (YouTube studies) is that in the USA there has to be more evidence of guilt other than just a statement confessing to a crime. Physical evidence linking the person to the crime has to exist as well before they can be convicted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 03, 2019, 05:45:14 PM
‘But it is understood that, as well as updating lawyers about the search for their daughter, who would now be six, they will be meeting representatives from a new PR agency, whom they hope can turn public opinion in Portugal in their favour.’
We have no reason to believe that they are still not working for the parents.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 03, 2019, 06:22:04 PM
I'm making light of it because as it fits your narrative, 'interrogation' seems way harsher than 'interview'. Yet Amaral discusses 'interrogation' in a matter of fact manner, as depicted in your useful quotes. It's a police interview. I don't remember Murat being too disparaging about the 'interrogation'.
I temember him bein most disparaging about it, he thought they were trying to stitch him up!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 03, 2019, 06:23:21 PM
Aren’t the parents paying a Portuguese PR company, Lift something I believe. What better way to distance yourself from the comment than having a ‘Portuguese source’ giving us the information.
LOL. Faithlilly thinks the McCanns made it all up and the PJ are still firmly setting their sights on the parents. You gotta laugh!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 03, 2019, 06:26:46 PM
‘But it is understood that, as well as updating lawyers about the search for their daughter, who would now be six, they will be meeting representatives from a new PR agency, whom they hope can turn public opinion in Portugal in their favour.’
We have no reason to believe that they are still not working for the parents.
Why has it taken them 10 years to trot this story out then?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 03, 2019, 06:28:35 PM
Do you think anyone under police investigation will be impressed by the conduct of those investigating them? And it has to be noted that the McCann's friends were instrumental in having him investigated in the first place. I seen the program on Quest Red last night discussed the Jane Tanner identification of Murat as a matter of fact.
Jane Tanner did not identify Murat as a matter of fact.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 03, 2019, 06:44:39 PM
I temember him bein most disparaging about it, he thought they were trying to stitch him up!
Yes, they played an absolute blinder, the old bait and switch, and searched his gaff. But I'm referring to his interview. Don't remember him feeling 'interrogated'.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2019, 06:47:55 PM
‘But it is understood that, as well as updating lawyers about the search for their daughter, who would now be six, they will be meeting representatives from a new PR agency, whom they hope can turn public opinion in Portugal in their favour.’
We have no reason to believe that they are still not working for the parents.
In other words ... apart from tabloid speculation in 2009 ... Snip But it is understood that, as well as updating lawyers about the search for their daughter, who would now be six, they will be meeting representatives from a new PR agency, whom they hope can turn public opinion in Portugal in their favour. ... your speculation remains still entirely that ... and certainly hardly ranking as current headline news. So why the angst?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2019, 06:50:21 PM
Last night's program and Colin Sutton put it across that way. If you don't like it, there is not much I can do about the editorial content I'm afraid. Your barking up the wrong tree on that one.
So are you ... if you think that is headline news. It is decidedly dated.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 06:51:28 PM
Last night's program and Colin Sutton put it across that way. If you don't like it, there is not much I can do about the editorial content I'm afraid. Your barking up the wrong tree on that one.
There is no mention of any libel action by Jane Tanner in todays latest news.
Jane Tanner did not identify Murat as a matter of fact.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2019, 06:56:08 PM
Do you think anyone under police investigation will be impressed by the conduct of those investigating them? And it has to be noted that the McCann's friends were instrumental in having him investigated in the first place. I seen the program on Quest Red last night discussed the Jane Tanner identification of Murat as a matter of fact.
You are mistaken that the McCann's friends were instrumental in having Murat investigated ... unless you are able to provide the required cite? Thank you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 06:59:42 PM
That's not what it said in the program, That's a fact that you'll have to take up with the producers. And out of curiousity, how do you know what Jane Tanner done as a matter of fact?
I don't have to take up anything at all.
And how do you know what Jane Tanner done, apart from this programme, which is incorrect, if what you say is true.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 03, 2019, 07:05:31 PM
Yes, they played an absolute blinder, the old bait and switch, and searched his gaff. But I'm referring to his interview. Don't remember him feeling 'interrogated'.
Don’t remember him describing it as a cosy chat either. Aren’t you just getting hung up on semantics? What’s the difference between question under caution and interrogate under caution? Do you think one necessarily involves aggression and the other not?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 03, 2019, 07:11:34 PM
In other words ... apart from tabloid speculation in 2009 ... Snip But it is understood that, as well as updating lawyers about the search for their daughter, who would now be six, they will be meeting representatives from a new PR agency, whom they hope can turn public opinion in Portugal in their favour. ... your speculation remains still entirely that ... and certainly hardly ranking as current headline news. So why the angst?
What angst ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 03, 2019, 07:18:05 PM
So how are we all feeling about what looks like a pretty credible news story, if Joana Morais’ take on it is anything to go by?
Can it possibly be true that the PJ are not looking at the parents? Is this because of all the pressure put on them by the dastardly Brits?
Where does this leave the supposed case against the parents that the Met have busily been assembling? It’s a bit of a turn up for the books isn’t it? Thr PJ looking at a paedo and the Met allegedly convinced the McCanns dunnit!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 07:19:02 PM
I know what Jane Tanner done because a ID documentary told viewers last night that's exactly what she done. It's easy enough to watch it and you'll see yourself.
If this is the impression that you got then it is incorrect.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 03, 2019, 07:19:28 PM
Don’t remember him describing it as a cosy chat either. Aren’t you just getting hung up on semantics? What’s the difference between question under caution and interrogate under caution? Do you think one necessarily involves aggression and the other not?
I Agree. It's Brietta who prefers the emotive description of 'interrogation' that Kate went through. I think it was an interview. In an interview room. Amaral called it an 'interrogation', which I believe is merely translatory language. Murat, although clearly unimpressed with his treatment, as you'd expect when one is being fitted up, he never said he was interrogated
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 03, 2019, 07:22:31 PM
I agree. It was the internet that gave us the two completely different versions of the last time the child's father and his best friend seen the child alive. That was the most ground breaking news I'm aware of in this case so far.
I've just received another warning for god knows what, but welcome to the being watched club. 8((()*/
If you’re being watched, just flash your cheeky monkey bum at them, that’s what I’d do... 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 07:28:04 PM
Haven't all Scotland Yards new leads over the years been credible? That must mean the Brits got the bungling burglars theory all wrong if the new lead is credible. They don't know their erse from their elbow by the looks of it.
I don’t think the bungling burglars theory was the only one they were ever pursuing seeing as how they were looking into paedo activity in the area.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2019, 07:35:11 PM
I Agree. It's Brietta who prefers the emotive description of 'interrogation' that Kate went through. I think it was an interview. In an interview room. Amaral called it an 'interrogation', which I believe is merely translatory language. Murat, although clearly unimpressed with his treatment, as you'd expect when one is being fitted up, he never said he was interrogated
interrogation /ɪnˌtɛrəˈɡeɪʃ(ə)n/ noun noun: interrogation; plural noun: interrogations the action of interrogating or the process of being interrogated. "would he keep his mouth shut under interrogation ?" synonyms: questioning, cross-questioning, cross-examination, quizzing, probing, inquisition, catechism; investigation, interviewing, interview, debriefing; informalpumping, grilling, the third degree; examination "he was driven to the police station for interrogation"
My use in a post some time ago, of the word "interrogation" appears to have become a bit of a cause célèbre which is quite flattering when you think about it ... but what is singularly amusing is that derision of translation errors in the files transmogrifies into claims of translation errors where Amaral is concerned.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 07:36:03 PM
Why should I believe it's not true if it is? That would be odd, very odd indeed. The program says she did, Amaral says she did. Jane Tanner has never said she didn't. If you have proof that Jane Tanner didn't identify Robert Murat then now would be a great time to share it?
Read Jane Tanner's Rogatory Interview. All of it, and not just the bits that suit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 07:41:11 PM
The floors your own to share where in her rotatory interview she says she didn't identify Mr Murat? She wasn't asked. I don't need to read something I've read more than enough.
Perhaps you can explain why The PJ didn't take a statement to this so called fact.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 03, 2019, 07:44:09 PM
Why should I believe it's not true if it is? That would be odd, very odd indeed. The program says she did, Amaral says she did. Jane Tanner has never said she didn't. If you have proof that Jane Tanner didn't identify Robert Murat then now would be a great time to share it?
Doesn't quite work like that you cheeky monkey you and I think you are long enough in the tooth fora wise to appreciate that YOU made the claim therefore YOU provide the cite. Then I don't think you are here to abide by the rules of this forum if the tone of your recent posts is anything to go by.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 07:49:31 PM
I won't be explaining anything other than the fact I have already clearly explained. The documentary "The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann" states as a matter of fact that Jane Tanner positively identified Robert Murat as the man she claims she seen carrying a child matching Madeleine's description from the surveillance van in PDL. Anyone who watched the program will know that is a fact.
Amaral missed a chance there, didn't he. He could have had it all wrapped up yonks ago. Murat done it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 03, 2019, 08:02:44 PM
I don't know what Amaral could have done but I do know what The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann clearly states. Quest Red is on Freeview. Look out for it and you'll see I'm telling the truth.
I don't think you are grasping the fact that your allegation that Murat was identified makes Amaral look like a bunbling idiot for doing nothing about it.
You claim he had an eye witness identification.
What did he do with it ? Did he get the witness to make a statement ? If not ... why not ?
And this is 'latest news' ... why? Because you watched an obviously ill informed documentary ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 03, 2019, 08:13:39 PM
I don't think you are grasping the fact that your allegation that Murat was identified makes Amaral look like a bunbling idiot for doing nothing about it.
You claim he had an eye witness identification.
What did he do with it ? Did he get the witness to make a statement ? If not ... why not ?
And this is 'latest news' ... why? Because you watched an obviously ill informed documentary ?
Who is informed that gives out information in this case?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2019, 08:19:12 PM
Jane Tanner did not identify Murat as a matter of fact.
According to Tanner herself in her rogatory interview she thought it wasn't and then in the next breath she thought it was Murat so please stop prevaricating.
Tanner Reply “You know, or said yeah, had said that he wasn’t there on the night, so you know was immediately, I think it was immediately, I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.
According to Tanner herself in her rogatory interview she thought it wasn't and then in the next breath she thought it was Murat so please stop prevaricating.
Tanner Reply “You know, or said yeah, had said that he wasn’t there on the night, so you know was immediately, I think it was immediately, I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.
Perhaps you can tell me why The PJ never got a statement to this supposed fact.
I believe they did but never published it. One reason Murat became a suspect was because the tapas crowd said he was there outside block 5 the night Maddie disappeared when according to him he never left his mother's villa.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 09:20:35 PM
Tanner Reply “You know, or said yeah, had said that he wasn’t there on the night, so you know was immediately, I think it was immediately, I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.
Cop 4078 “No”.
Tanner Reply “But I just thought IT was”.
What is JT referring to do you believe when she refers to “But I just thought IT was”? She thinks what was?
I have no idea. But I don't see anything therein that would ever be fit with which to charge Murat.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 03, 2019, 09:36:57 PM
Why should I believe it's not true if it is? That would be odd, very odd indeed. The program says she did, Amaral says she did. Jane Tanner has never said she didn't. If you have proof that Jane Tanner didn't identify Robert Murat then now would be a great time to share it?
Find the statement where Jane makes that claim. Amaral claims Jane IDs Robert Murat but Jane denies that in her rogatory interview.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2019, 09:46:28 PM
In the documentary titled; "The Disappearance Of Madeleine McCann" the program claims that Jane Tannner ID'd Robert Murat from the survaillance van. Now that's a fact. A simple documented fact that some on here are struggling to grasp. Since when did you have the authority as a moderator to try to tell people what to do, uh? Go watch it and open your ears.
Where exactly does Jane deny it in her rogatory? Time to practice what you preach?
It is a suggestion, take it or leave it. Now to get it straight is it the Netflix documentary you are talking about, and not the podcast? Which episode and and at roughly what part of the episode are you discussing?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 03, 2019, 10:16:49 PM
What's your point that I haven't already replied to?
It is quite common for the police to focus on a suspect only later to find that the suspect is later ruled out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 03, 2019, 10:40:51 PM
MIDNIGHT RAID New Madeleine McCann suspect ‘broke into British family’s holiday home wearing surgical mask and loomed over sleeping girl, 7, saying ‘I’m your daddy’ Detectives have discovered a creep carried out nearly 30 attacks in a 40-mile radius of Praia da Luz
A SEX fiend who speaks English and wears a surgical mask is understood to be the kidnapper Portuguese police now fear may have snatched Madeleine McCann.
In one attack he broke into a British family's home and loomed over a seven-year-old girl who woke up and asked "Is that you Daddy?" and he replied "Yes" in a foreign accent.
A friend of the McCann’s added: “It is just odd that news of this possible new lead has come out of the anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance and we’re wondering if it could have been made up."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 03, 2019, 10:52:17 PM
MIDNIGHT RAID New Madeleine McCann suspect ‘broke into British family’s holiday home wearing surgical mask and loomed over sleeping girl, 7, saying ‘I’m your daddy’ Detectives have discovered a creep carried out nearly 30 attacks in a 40-mile radius of Praia da Luz
A SEX fiend who speaks English and wears a surgical mask is understood to be the kidnapper Portuguese police now fear may have snatched Madeleine McCann.
In one attack he broke into a British family's home and loomed over a seven-year-old girl who woke up and asked "Is that you Daddy?" and he replied "Yes" in a foreign accent.
A friend of the McCann’s added: “It is just odd that news of this possible new lead has come out of the anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance and we’re wondering if it could have been made up."
Wasn’t this individual discussed in Summers book ? That was several years ago.....bit slow off the blocks theses police types.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on May 03, 2019, 10:54:07 PM
MIDNIGHT RAID New Madeleine McCann suspect ‘broke into British family’s holiday home wearing surgical mask and loomed over sleeping girl, 7, saying ‘I’m your daddy’ Detectives have discovered a creep carried out nearly 30 attacks in a 40-mile radius of Praia da Luz
A SEX fiend who speaks English and wears a surgical mask is understood to be the kidnapper Portuguese police now fear may have snatched Madeleine McCann.
In one attack he broke into a British family's home and loomed over a seven-year-old girl who woke up and asked "Is that you Daddy?" and he replied "Yes" in a foreign accent.
A friend of the McCann’s added: “It is just odd that news of this possible new lead has come out of the anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance and we’re wondering if it could have been made up."
They have to create headlines on the 12th anniversary of Maddie's disappearance somehow.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on May 03, 2019, 11:00:08 PM
Francisco Moita Flores - "Yes, you get used to dealing with crimes every day; it is our routine. But Portugal is the safest country in Europe and in the 40 years of democracy we have, besides Maddie, only 3 other children have disappeared. There WAS NEVER a network of paedophiles, abductors ... That NEVER existed in Portugal, it is an invention that has been made to protect the parents of Maddie and their group of friends".
Is he saying there are no paedophiles in Portugal ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on May 03, 2019, 11:22:48 PM
I don't quite follow, are you saying there is any country with no paedophiles? One things sure, if this new pedo story which is even being reported on Sky News is true, they must believe the child is dead. If she were alive in the hands of a pedo, they have just put her life in grave danger.
Clever that, innit?
What's clever? Who has put her life in grave danger? You do seem to be somewhat over animated by all of this today!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 03, 2019, 11:25:16 PM
Her mammy and daddy put her life in grave danger with their child care arrangements if we're starting at the beginning. What's over animated? I've been sat on my butt all day unfortunately. Hence I've given you the pleasure of my company. Nothing animated about sitting about all day, I'll tell ya.
Thank you for your reply. It's as clear as mud.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on May 03, 2019, 11:39:49 PM
I'm sorry I can't do the link but there was a service tonight in Rothely to remember Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 03, 2019, 11:43:09 PM
But they have that many friends, you never know what one it is. If they're spreading their news, they should be telling us their friend's names imo.
If Davie Payne was still one of them, I'd be astonished!
The point is, some people on here seem to think this PJ Paedo news is a product of the McCann PR machine, and yet one of their friends is saying it might be made up? This does not compute!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 04, 2019, 12:08:09 AM
Francisco Moita Flores - "Yes, you get used to dealing with crimes every day; it is our routine. But Portugal is the safest country in Europe and in the 40 years of democracy we have, besides Maddie, only 3 other children have disappeared. There WAS NEVER a network of paedophiles, abductors ... That NEVER existed in Portugal, it is an invention that has been made to protect the parents of Maddie and their group of friends".
Where is this quote from please?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 12:18:22 AM
Francisco Moita Flores - "Yes, you get used to dealing with crimes every day; it is our routine. But Portugal is the safest country in Europe and in the 40 years of democracy we have, besides Maddie, only 3 other children have disappeared. There WAS NEVER a network of paedophiles, abductors ... That NEVER existed in Portugal, it is an invention that has been made to protect the parents of Maddie and their group of friends".
So Casa Pia was invented by the McCanns as a coverup in case one of their kids had an accident while they were on holiday in Portugal. It all makes sense now...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 04, 2019, 12:34:12 AM
Is surgical mask man the same as smelly bin man or were there a number of different men all entering holiday apartments at night & assaulting white British girls ?!
I'm confused.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 04, 2019, 01:05:56 AM
Has it ever dawned on you what kind of professionals have easy access to surgical masks? There might be a cryptic clue in this story. Doctors use surgical masks, so maybe their new lead is a doctor.
You can buy a pack of 10 on Amazon for £2.99. People use them for protection against viral infections & pollution.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 04, 2019, 01:30:24 AM
Is surgical mask man the same as smelly bin man or were there a number of different men all entering holiday apartments at night & assaulting white British girls ?!
I'm confused.
A surgical mask but no gloves marks were found. How extraordinary 8(>((
Has it ever dawned on you what kind of professionals have easy access to surgical masks? There might be a cryptic clue in this story. Doctors use surgical masks, so maybe their new lead is a doctor.
So do you think the new lead may have purchased a 10 pack from Amazon and the new suspect's name is in the Amazon surgical mask database? That's an interesting theory, I hadn't thought of. Amaral may be more correct than us though, Sky News are reporting the investigation has identified a new suspect and he's a known pedo. Amaral claimed on Monday a German pedo may be their target on which to try to pin the blame.
Oh I do hope so. That's one sure fire way to get Kate and Gerry into the witness box as witnesses for the defence. I wonder if the suspect they are on about really is German.
You always think it's going to get interesting and then it comes to absolutely nothing, don't you think?
Given the number of people who have purchased the cheap masks since 2007 to protect themselves from Swine flu, Bird Flu & everyday pollution in China, a search of Amazon's customer list would be the proverbial needle in haystack.
The German was only interested in boys so imo Amaral is barking up the wrong tree with that assertion.
A new suspect may well have been identified. The trial of a man from Agueda, Portugal is beginning this month. He is charged with setting up an international paedophile ring on the Dark Web & sharing CSA photos & videos. Reportedly he has 2 paedophile friends in the police force & knew how to play the justice system. One of Interpol's most wanted paedophiles is a Portuguese of unknown identity. Possibly some information has come to light from this network. https://zap.aeiou.pt/pedofilo-rede-internacional-sucata-247872
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 04, 2019, 02:11:11 AM
It's neither. It's a one hour documentary titled; The Madeleine McCann Mystery It was aired on May 2nd on Guest Red in the UK and may have been aired earlier.
Don't worry, I'll keep you right. Bear that in mind the next time you go demanding cites from people. It's much better if you know what your talking about first imo.
It's on discovery right now in the UK. Here's a cite for you; https://www.discoveryuk.com/series/the-madeleine-mccann-mystery/
I'm not in UK and that link worked but didn't take me to what I expected. Is this the same footage? "Investigation Discovery : What happened to Madeleine McCann Documentary 2019" https://youtu.be/rQ7o5wF1vF8
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 02:24:53 AM
Given the number of people who have purchased the cheap masks since 2007 to protect themselves from Swine flu, Bird Flu & everyday pollution in China, a search of Amazon's customer list would be the proverbial needle in haystack.
The German was only interested in boys so imo Amaral is barking up the wrong tree with that assertion.
A new suspect may well have been identified. The trial of a man from Agueda, Portugal is beginning this month. He is charged with setting up an international paedophile ring on the Dark Web & sharing CSA photos & videos. Reportedly he has 2 paedophile friends in the police force & knew how to play the justice system. One of Interpol's most wanted paedophiles is a Portuguese of unknown identity. Possibly some information has come to light from this network. https://zap.aeiou.pt/pedofilo-rede-internacional-sucata-247872
Snip Author confessed of abuses to babies had already been condemned for pornography of minors, but judges left him at liberty, by the time he was only 19 years old. Another predator has been linked to the network, who had already been able to escape to jail thanks to a judicial formalism. ______________________________________________________________
Due to its extreme contours, the case will be unpublished in Portugal. ______________________________________________________________
It was scarce three months before , he had just been released by the judges of the Court of Aveiro, who arrived at the Judicial Police an alert coming from an Australian counterpart with the first suspicions about this new case.
Interpol's suspicions center on a Portuguese of unknown identity who is "one of the most wanted pedophiles" of the time. A 50,000 euro reward from this police was created for anyone who provided information about Baby Heart.
Europol is also on the ground, but it must be an accomplice of the pedophile caught in Brazil that puts the authorities behind him.
The conversations the two men had online reveal the impunity with which the Portuguese acted, which guaranteed that in the national territory it is easy to make incriminating evidence disappear because judges, prosecutors and police sell easily.
"I have two pedophile friends who are policemen," he said, explaining that the suspended sentence he had been convicted of had delayed plans to open a playground in a shopping center with out-of-hours babysitting . He also wanted to become a bodyguard for children. Another feat was part of her plans, revenge on the Judiciary inspector who had investigated the case of pornography on Facebook: "I know where your son's school is." ______________________________________________________________
In more or less detail, minors old enough to explain themselves described the abuses they had been victimized. But they do not remember everything: there were times when they were put to sleep with soporificos.
So they don't know for sure if he's Portuguese, fair enough.
It does not matter what nationality this person is he is responsible for the abuse of children. It is not the first worldwide network to be discovered nor will it be the last which makes it particularly unacceptable if flippant attitudes prevail such as those displayed in your posts on the anniversary of the day a three year old child vanished.
The clue this particular outrage is centred in Portugal might lie in the fact the Portuguese were alerted to its existence by the Australians.
Thank God for the good men and women who do this kind of work to eliminate such crimes against children; it must take a heavy toll on them
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 04, 2019, 02:48:48 AM
"Jane Tanner recognises the man she claims she saw holding the child as ROBERT MURAT"
That puts Jane Tanner identifying Robert Murat to bed once and for all. Well done.
That is not news ... but I can see why you are deflecting to it.
I think the latest news makes it plain that as has been obvious to the majority for quite some time ... that neither Scotland Yard or the Judicial police have been twiddling their thumbs over the long drawn out case of investigating what happened to Madeleine McCann.
What is being revealed at the moment almost makes me wish that the Moita Flores and Joana Morais of this life were correct in the nonsense they've been punting for years. The Publico article I've linked to and Misty's original link make it crystal clear that is not the case; worse Publico has indicated that people in the judiciary are responsible for participating in the crimes and allowing perpetrators free rein. I would say those who conspired for years to cover it up and say it does not happen are just as bad.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 04, 2019, 03:00:13 AM
People in glass houses shouldn't toss stones and all that. Snip Suffolk man avoids prison after downloading over 40,000 indecent images of children
A man from Suffolk who became obsessed with child porn and downloaded more than 40,000 images has walked free from court after a judge decided NOT to send him straight to prison. Nigel Nessling told police he initially saw an image of an eight-year-old girl and thought she was “pretty and cute” and became obsessed with viewing indecent images of children over a period of seven or eight years, Ipswich Crown Court heard.
“He said he needed to find more material to grow his collection and gained a thrill from forbidden fruit,” said Michael Crimp, prosecuting.
The court heard that police officers went to where Nessling was living at the time - an address in Ipswich - on April 11 and seized items including two laptops, a hard drive and a tower unit.
When the equipment was analysed it was found to contain 804 still and moving images in the MOST SERIOUS level A category, 818 still and moving level B images and more than 40,000 still and moving images in the lowest level C category.
That is not news either and your deflection to it smacks of real desperation. You appear to really be having difficulty coping what the real and current news is about.
Fire ahead though. It reflects badly on none but you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 03:07:18 AM
That is not news ... but I can see why you are deflecting to it.
I think the latest news makes it plain that as has been obvious to the majority for quite some time ... that neither Scotland Yard or the Judicial police have been twiddling their thumbs over the long drawn out case of investigating what happened to Madeleine McCann.
What is being revealed at the moment almost makes me wish that the Moita Flores and Joana Morais of this life were correct in the nonsense they've been punting for years. The Publico article I've linked to and Misty's original link make it crystal clear that is not the case; worse Publico has indicated that people in the judiciary are responsible for participating in the crimes and allowing perpetrators free rein. I would say those who conspired for years to cover it up and say it does not happen are just as bad.
Sadly it's not just Portugal who are being lenient on or even complicit with the actions of paedophiles. The UK, Ireland & Israel are just 3 other countries who appear to be on a path leading eventually to acceptance & possibly legalisation of the last taboo. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/02/low-level-paedophiles-could-avoid-jail-terms-new-guidance/
I don't care what you think one little bit. I made a statement of fact that the program which aired last night (latest news) confirmed Jane Tanner positively identified Robert Murat as the man she seen carrying a child. Deflecting what? The latest news. Not quite if your read the thread title.
Now you have your documented video evidence. It's hardly my fault you're troubled in this instance by the truth.
It is ridiculous to suppose
that a documentary about 2007 is anything other than speculation and history ... most certainly NOT latest news by any stretch of the imagination
Jane Tanner is on record under police interview ... and also face to face on camera ... reiterating that she did not ID Robert Murat. There is an excellent link here http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4130.msg151610#msg151610 I recommend it to you particularly as it was in the days when members posted on topic
Speaking of which ... might I request you desist from following what I think is a disruptive agenda ... and post on topic.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 03:34:48 AM
Sadly it's not just Portugal who are being lenient on or even complicit with the actions of paedophiles. The UK, Ireland & Israel are just 3 other countries who appear to be on a path leading eventually to acceptance & possibly legalisation of the last taboo. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/02/low-level-paedophiles-could-avoid-jail-terms-new-guidance/
The blessings of the www in some cases I think ... but in all, the inherent signs of the total degeneration of society. It has always happened but at least in most cultures it was kept in check as you say by taboo.
Very sad and definitely very wrong.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 07:16:20 AM
But the logs from the surveillance van are not there, so it's not all there at all. Why do you think I would be privy to those officers who were in the van's logs before you or anyone else from the public, was what I was asking.?
What logs?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2019, 07:52:29 AM
No, it doesn't. That is just someone saying that Jane Tanner said it. Although she doesn't say exactly what Jane Tanner said. And the woman in the van isn't even Jane Tanner.
That doesn't even constitute Hearsay, which in itself is inadmissible.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2019, 08:08:25 AM
I suggest you listen again @30:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ7o5wF1vF8&feature=youtu.be "Jane Tanner recognises the man she claims she saw holding the child as ROBERT MURAT"
So who said that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on May 04, 2019, 08:09:36 AM
That doesn't matter in this case. What matters in this case is the program states are a matter of fact that Jane Tanner ID'd Robert Murat from the van exactly like I posted.
The truth is the truth, but what I find hilarious about the reaction to this little nugget in the program is the fact that whether Jane Tanner ID'd Robert Murat or not, which we know she did ("but i just thought it was") is the fact that it has no relation to the material truth of what happened to the missing child. It
Why some people are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing is rather amusing to behold this fine Glesga Saturday morning. The 10.05 train to Balloch for the Monkey.
Choo choo. 8)-)))
theres alot of denial by some in this case
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 08:17:07 AM
I don't care what you or any one claim about anything here, claim away, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the accurate point I made and was accused of not being accurate. Well now they have documented video proof that I was correct to stick in their pipe and take a very deep puff on.
The truth is the truth and the program has you have heard states as a matter of fact that Tanner ID'd Murat - FACT. Oh dear, such a trivial titbit imo does seems to have spoiled a few members Saturday morning. I trust you won't be one of them.
What was your point about Jews and 9/11 again?
???
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 08:34:47 AM
Give me a chance to wake up ey? but I never posted anything about me considering Murat anything so you're wandering off the subject a wee bit there. I only posted the fact the latest documentary states as a matter of fact that Tanner ID'd Murat. End of, because it does and now you and everyone else can hear it for themselves thanks to good old Rob's cite.
So why specifically bring this point to the attention of this Forum?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 04, 2019, 08:36:28 AM
Give me a chance to wake up ey? but I never posted anything about me considering Murat anything so you're wandering off the subject a wee bit there. I only posted the fact the latest documentary states as a matter of fact that Tanner ID'd Murat. End of, because it does and now you and everyone else can hear it for themselves thanks to good old Rob's cite.
The accuracy can be debated for ever and a day,but its there as clear as day to listen to as you point out.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 04, 2019, 08:38:05 AM
Why not if the thread title is latest news and this latest documentary was the first to state has a matter of fact that Tanner ID'd Murat? Should I private message you for the OK prior to posting?
No. Carry on digging your own hole. Your comments will be deleted if they are Libellous.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 09:16:04 AM
Why not if the thread title is latest news and this latest documentary was the first to state has a matter of fact that Tanner ID'd Murat? Should I private message you for the OK prior to posting?
Let's just say she did... What is it's, significance
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2019, 09:18:59 AM
Big deal, you really think that's a hole? Delete whatever you want if it makes you feel in some way better. How can my comments be libelous if they have been broadcast on UK TV twice this week?
Some of the comments in this video could be Libellous. In which case repeating them would be Libellous.
Did you know this?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 09:20:30 AM
Remember when sceptics were claiming Murat was suing sine of the Tapas.... They simply would not listen to reason
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2019, 09:22:39 AM
Davel read through the thread. I don't give a toss at this point what Tanner did. The point I made and have been repeatedly pulled up on, is that the latest documentary which aired twice on UK TV states as a matter of fact that Jane Tanner ID'd Murat.
Even with Rob providing a verbatim cite they are still in denial. That's their problem, not mine as far as I'm concerned.
If you don't give a toss... Why all the fuss... Sceptics seem to argue for hours over points that have no significance
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 04, 2019, 09:28:19 AM
I've been having loads of fun with this one. There's no fuss on my part, just a verbatim cite to support my original post. 8(0(*
That's why I refuse to get into some debates... They are pointless... What we have now is a situation where the PJ are talking about a suspected kidnapper... That's far more interesting
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 04, 2019, 09:32:21 AM
That's why I refuse to get into some debates... They are pointless... What we have now is a situation where the PJ are talking about a suspected kidnapper... That's far more interesting
No they are not,its paper talk,the PJ made no such comment.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2019, 09:32:36 AM
Bernard Cribbins. "Your digging it round and it ought to be square The shape of it's wrong, it's much too long And you can't put hole where a hole don't belong I ask, what a liberty eh"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 09:51:56 AM
If the reports you refer to are to be believed there's no need, it's May 3rd time and they are on to Surgical Mask Man as we speak, his days of freedom are coming to an end.
Wonder who it will be next year? @)(++(*
I didn't know 'surgical mask man' (Netflix documentary) is the suspect referred to in the latest news (Correio da Manhã) do you happen to have a cite for that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 04, 2019, 10:12:24 AM
I didn't know 'surgical mask man' (Netflix documentary) is the suspect referred to in the latest news (Correio da Manhã) do you happen to have a cite for that?
See front page of Express https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2335351/newspapers-front-page#latest
also https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/madeleine-mccann-linked-paedo-found-14152266
also https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/766138/madeleine-mcCann-disappearance-snatch-paedophile-surgical-mask-praia-de-luz-portugal
Quality sources, every one @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 04, 2019, 10:16:52 AM
But they have that many friends, you never know what one it is. If they're spreading their news, they should be telling us their friend's names imo.
If Davie Payne was still one of them, I'd be astonished!
If this story is true, and I very much doubt it, who is leaking information from the investigation ? Somebody must be. Further by feigning surprise at the coincidence of this news being leaked on the anniversary of the disappearance you remove yourself another step from actually being the source of the information. Quite clever, but after 12 years, totally transparent.
Another thing that struck me. In the reports of the memorial service reported in the Sun it is pointed out that Kate didn’t say anything at the service as Gerry usually does, unfortunately he was absent preferring to be elsewhere when his family were at their most vulnerable ( bit of a pattern there ). This is demonstrably untrue as it is usually Kate who delivers the reading at the memorial. Perhaps they are now relying solely on anonymous friends to speak for them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 04, 2019, 10:18:46 AM
See front page of Express https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2335351/newspapers-front-page#latest
also https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/madeleine-mccann-linked-paedo-found-14152266
Thank you ... The cite I requested specified the information in yesterday's Correio da Manhã ... Snip Detectives from Portugal's Policia Judiciaria are said to have had extra resources to investigate the "new clue".
Portuguese daily newspaper Correio da Manha said public prosecutors had turned down its request to see new material which had been "sealed" because of "active lines of investigation" https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1122709/Madeleine-McCann-latest-maddie-suspect-news
The rehash of the Netflix news of early March must suffice.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 04, 2019, 10:42:40 AM
I suggest you listen again @30:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ7o5wF1vF8&feature=youtu.be "Jane Tanner recognises the man she claims she saw holding the child as ROBERT MURAT"
As we had previously determined Jane recognised some aspect about Robert Murat, and from memory it was the way he walked. Now the way one walks is not going to stay the same between carrying a child and walking without a child. I tend to think it was poor positive identification.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 04, 2019, 10:50:40 AM
I didn't come to cause trouble, I came to post the fact the latest documentary states as a matter of fact that Tanner ID'd Murat. Which it quite clearly does.
I didn't ask for the reaction that established fact has received. It's those who have reacted to that fact in a most peculiar manner imo that appears to be causing what you perceive to be trouble. That reaction isn't troubling me fortunately enough.
I think the documentary does state that but IMO it is an error.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 10:51:36 AM
As we had previously determined Jane recognised some aspect about Robert Murat, and from memory it was the way he walked. Now the way one walks is not going to stay the same between carrying a child and walking without a child. I tend to think it was poor positive identification.
I'm not going to ask for a cite Rob. But I think there is a very fair chance that pairing "Murat" and the "way he walked" is a sceptic factoid.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 04, 2019, 10:56:17 AM
I'm not going to ask for a cite Rob. But I think there is a very fair chance that pairing "Murat" and the "way he walked" is a sceptic factoid.
It might have been but I had it down to something GA repeated. Jane says something to the PJ officers with her, and they tell GA what Jane supposedly said. Did all parties understand each other.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 11:03:40 AM
It might have been but I had it down to something GA repeated. Jane says something to the PJ officers with her, and they tell GA what Jane supposedly said. Did all parties understand each other.
Amaral does appear to function in a 'Chinese whispers' fashion ... all the more reason to take anything he says with a pinch of salt.
Remember the Irish teenager out for a fly smoke? One of his anonymous witnesses I believe. Don't hear much of her these days.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 11:20:05 AM
Don't you mean you know the documentary does state that? @30:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ7o5wF1vF8&feature=youtu.be "Jane Tanner recognises the man she claims she saw holding the child as ROBERT MURAT"
Well done for digging it out. 8((()*/ It provides some evidence that MSM have accepted that Tanner identified Murat from the van. Whether she did or not is not relevant to the point. A documentary aired on UK Discovery and Quest Red has stated she did as a matter of fact. If she didn't, she can now sue both channels. If she knows the police can prove she did, she can't.
I'll watch this space.
Sonia Poulton ??? 8)--))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 11:24:50 AM
Don't you mean you know the documentary does state that? @30:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ7o5wF1vF8&feature=youtu.be "Jane Tanner recognises the man she claims she saw holding the child as ROBERT MURAT"
Well done for digging it out. 8((()*/ It provides some evidence that MSM have accepted that Tanner identified Murat from the van. Whether she did or not is not relevant to the point. A documentary aired on UK Discovery and Quest Red has stated she did as a matter of fact. If she didn't, she can now sue both channels. If she knows the police can prove she did, she can't.
I'll watch this space.
In order to sue you have to show the claim has had a significant effect in your reputation... I doubt this meets the mark.. There us, also a defence if fair comment...they may well have assumed that as amaral made this claim in his book... It would be accurate
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 04, 2019, 11:48:28 AM
There are eighty four pages here ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5848.msg208451#msg208451 which might give you an inkling. Me ??? I'm too busy laughing to be bothered. How much does she get each time someone follows the link to Youtube?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on May 04, 2019, 11:57:55 AM
Could we have a tad less sniping comments across the boards please. Mods have a job to do and do it well. TY
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 04, 2019, 11:58:26 AM
There are eighty four pages here ... http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5848.msg208451#msg208451 which might give you an inkling. Me ??? I'm too busy laughing to be bothered. How much does she get each time someone follows the link to Youtube?
A more pertinent question is why do you think it’s any of your business ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 12:10:17 PM
I'm sure RM's solicitor would be able to demonstrate to a court what Tanner has done if true has had a very significant effect on his life.
That's the claim the documentary has clearly made. That will now have a significant effect on her reputation imo.
I'll watch this space with interest.
I imagine the documentary will be a slightly better sanitised version of her sceptic credentials (she was trying to sell it to mainstream) ... on this occasion I might watch it to have a laugh at the leopard changing its spots. Whatever happened to Sonia anyway? Does she have any street cred anywhere apart from fans like you ... if you are one?
One thing certain sure ... she is not quoting Jane Tanner verbatim and is basically putting her own spin on it ... it really would be funny or even pathetic if there wasn't a missing child at the centre of it all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 12:18:37 PM
I'm sure RM's solicitor would be able to demonstrate to a court what Tanner has done if true has had a very significant effect on his life.
That's the claim the documentary has clearly made. That will now have a significant effect on her reputation imo.
I'll watch this space with interest.
Robert is no stranger to successful litigation and has had twelve years to mull over suing anyone who has libelled him.
Why do you think he hasn't sued Jane et al despite allegations he was going to emanating from the fevered brain of internet bloggers (Morais for one). Just more of the fantasy and disinformation woven to cause confusion in Madeleine's case ... why would bloggers wish to do that, I wonder?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on May 04, 2019, 12:26:27 PM
Murat could no more sue Jane Tanner for what she may have allegedly said to the PJ re. an ID than Gerry could sue Martin Smith for his written & mistaken ID of Gerry. Witness statements to police are exempt from libel prosecution.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 12:30:22 PM
I'm sure RM's solicitor would be able to demonstrate to a court what Tanner has done if true has had a very significant effect on his life.
That's the claim the documentary has clearly made. That will now have a significant effect on her reputation imo.
I'll watch this space with interest.
I doubt if either is important.... Murat cannot sue Jane tanner for reporting her concerns to the police... IF she did... Unless he can show her claim was malicious and not a genuine opinion..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 12:32:48 PM
Sonia Poulton is not in the What happened to Madeleine McCann Documentary 2019 that aired on UK Discovery and Guest Red this week, so your point is completely lost on me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ7o5wF1vF8&feature=youtu.be
Sonia Poulton isn't anywhere near the relevant documentary so I'll ask again. The point of your original reply was trying to make, is?
The documentary "Contains dramatic reenactments ... certain images and details may have been altered" a thousand apologies to Sonia Poulton ... my bad ... I should have known better than that she would have acknowledged dramatic licence and alteration.
Rather mixes up fact with fiction with no indication which is which though.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 04, 2019, 12:36:03 PM
Sonia Poulton is not in the What happened to Madeleine McCann Documentary 2019 that aired on UK Discovery and Guest Red this week, so your point is completely lost on me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ7o5wF1vF8&feature=youtu.be
Sonia Poulton isn't anywhere near the relevant documentary so I'll ask again. The point of your original reply was trying to make, is?
Just standard supporter diversion and smear tactics - IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2019, 01:17:32 PM
Who wrote the script for this "Documentary?" It certainly contains a lot of poetic licence. And I am only half way through it.
Did anyone know that Amaral turned up at the crime scene on the night of the abduction, and shook hands with Kate and Gerry? That's a new one on me. I thought Amaral never even met The McCanns.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 04, 2019, 01:18:27 PM
Who wrote the script for this "Documentary?" It certainly contains a lot of poetic licence. And I am only half way through it.
Did anyone know that Amaral turned up at the crime scene on the night of the abduction, and shook hands with Kate and Gerry? That's a new one on me. I thought Amaral never even met The McCanns.
Which documentary?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2019, 01:20:30 PM
There seem to be so many that it's difficult to keep up. All trying to make money out of the situation. And not a peep of protest from the McCanns or their lawyers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 04, 2019, 01:28:31 PM
There seem to be so many that it's difficult to keep up. All trying to make money out of the situation. And not a peep of protest from the McCanns or their lawyers.
Not surprising really. It's a farce.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 03:08:49 PM
German paedophile is UK police 'target' in Maddie McCann mystery, former Portuguese detective claims
A German paedophile who UK police are preparing to target as the man who abducted and possibly killed missing girl Madeleine McCann is not the real culprit, according to an explosive theory outlined by the Portuguese detective who once led the 2007 case.
Goncalo Amaral made the allegation that the German child sex offender – who is known to authorities - would become the focus of Scotland Yard's investigation in a remarkable interview on Maddie, nine.com.au's podcast exploring the disappearance of Madeleine.
Speaking exclusively with nine.com.au, Mr Amaral hit out at Operation Grange, the long-running $20m London Metropolitan Police search for Maddie. He alleged Operation Grange only had "one investigation line", and claimed it was blinkered to other possibilities about what may have happened in the resort where Madeleine was staying.
"[Operation Grange detectives] are preparing the end of the investigation, with a German paedophile who is in prison right now," Mr Amaral said.
"He is probably going to be the scapegoat for the case."Mr Amaral led the Portuguese investigation into the Madeleine mystery for five months, from May 2007. He was removed from the case after he publicly criticised some lines of inquiry that UK detectives who arrived in Portugal just after Maddie vanished appeared interested in focusing on.
Scotland Yard's Operation Grange have remained very tight-lipped about its investigation, since launching in 2011.
When contacted by nine.com.au, a Scotland Yard spokesperson said Operation Grange "would not be providing a running commentary" on the case.
Mr Amaral said the German had lived in the Algarve. In Maddie, Mr Amaral talks more about the German child sex offender, and how he allegedly came to the attention of police.
The interview with Mr Amaral, who has rarely made any English-speaking media appearances, will feature in episodes nine and 10 of Maddie.
In 2008 Goncalo Amaral released The Truth of the Lie, documenting his five months leading the police investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance. The controversial book triggered a protracted and bitter legal battle with Kate and Gerry McCann.
The 22-chapter work suggested a theory that Madeleine had died in apartment 5A, an abduction had been simulated and the three-year-old's body was somehow removed from the resort.
Mr and Mrs McCann said they left Madeleine and their two other children alone while they ate dinner at a nearby restaurant with a group of friends, who became known as the Tapas 7.
They believed an intruder, probably a paedophile or child trafficker, had been watching their apartment and struck while they were out, taking Madeleine from her bed.
Mr and Mrs McCann, both doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire, have strenuously denied they were involved in the disappearance of their daughter and nine.com.au does not suggest any involvement on their part.
I sure do hope they do, and charge him. Then we'll all hear the evidence and the bonus for me... we'll get to hear the tapas crew thoroughly cross examined under oath in a court of law.
Oh please mammy let it be true. &%54%
I would like to see taht too
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 03:28:11 PM
I sure do hope they do, and charge him. Then we'll all hear the evidence and the bonus for me... we'll get to hear the tapas crew thoroughly cross examined under oath in a court of law.
Oh please mammy let it be true. &%54%
Not necessarily.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 03:51:07 PM
German paedophile is UK police 'target' in Maddie McCann mystery, former Portuguese detective claims
Remember?
So do you hope he's right, or are you hoping he's wrong? We need an answer please!
he may have been pinpointed by SY...well done to SY...but its teh PJ who will handle the case...they will not be able to do anything without evidence..and thats what i will be interested in seeing.....
Amaral may well have had word of this...and I hpe he is correct that an arrest is on the cards... i dont beleive in the patsy bit and dont believe much of what he says based on past experiences...its a case where we have to sort the wheat from the chaff
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 03:58:34 PM
You reckon there's a way to get a conviction without any testimony from the last people to see her alive. You reckon Mr Pedoman is going to get a confession beaten out of him here do you?
The thought of listening to Kate and Gerry standing in court and speaking those immortal words.
I swear by Almighty God that I will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Affirmation: I solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Oh mammy, please please let Amaral be right &%54%
I'm not sure your expectation will be realised as in the circumstances you describe. Does Portugal do Victim Impact Statements? You might be cooking with gas if they do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 05:40:56 PM
How would I know if they do Victim Impact Statements in Portugal, I'm from Glasgow? And what exactly was David Payne and Russel O'Brien victims of, for instance.
I've been cooking with gas all my life, there's no might be's about it.
Victim Impact Statements indeed. LOL.
Don't you think it is about time you moved on from the apparent obsession that the McCanns, their friends and one or two bit players making pejorative statements to cast Madeleine's parents in the worst possible light ... were the only inhabitants of Luz on May 3 2007.
If Madeleines parents were to appear in a Portuguese it will be as witnesses ... the accused in the dock will be the guy the police are endeavouring to bring to book at present.
I think you should consider reconciling yourself to the fact that Kate and Gerry are not persons of interest ... the PJ certainly and perhaps Scotland Yard too already have one of those.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 05:59:06 PM
If this story is true, and I very much doubt it, who is leaking information from the investigation ? Somebody must be. Further by feigning surprise at the coincidence of this news being leaked on the anniversary of the disappearance you remove yourself another step from actually being the source of the information. Quite clever, but after 12 years, totally transparent.
Another thing that struck me. In the reports of the memorial service reported in the Sun it is pointed out that Kate didn’t say anything at the service as Gerry usually does, unfortunately he was absent preferring to be elsewhere when his family were at their most vulnerable ( bit of a pattern there ). This is demonstrably untrue as it is usually Kate who delivers the reading at the memorial. Perhaps they are now relying solely on anonymous friends to speak for them.
What leads you “to very much doubt “ this story? Are you the friend of the McCanns who spoke to the paper? @)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 06:03:08 PM
I sure do hope they do, and charge him. Then we'll all hear the evidence and the bonus for me... we'll get to hear the tapas crew thoroughly cross examined under oath in a court of law.
Oh please mammy let it be true. &%54%
According to G-Unit that would not happen, and she is always right apparently.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 06:06:36 PM
No they are not,its paper talk,the PJ made no such comment.
you need to provide a cite...according to the portuguese papers....they have...then we have amaral...who definitely supports teh idea of a charge...there can be no charge without teh PJ on board
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 04, 2019, 06:28:36 PM
Yes, they played an absolute blinder, the old bait and switch, and searched his gaff. But I'm referring to his interview. Don't remember him feeling 'interrogated'.
FYI, from the Panorama programme
ROBERT MURAT: At one stage I was taken to an area where they wanted to fingerprint me and take photographs and all that kind of stuff. And I think they were trying to disorient,er, me because they moved me around from room to room, hallway to hallway, corridor to corridor and it seemed very choreographed calling out, “Well, take photographs of him” and you know, he’s, er, “We want to send a team to Poland.” It was kind of a choreographed situation.
RB: What, to intimidate you?
ROBERT MURAT: Yeah, I think so. And it did intimidate me at the time. Its now that I realise what was going on. I had five people rushing into a room and, erm, and standing behind me and it felt very very ‘Life on Mars’. It felt very, er you know, erm, just very pressured.
RB: He was questioned for nineteen hours before he was released. The next day he returned to collect his belongings and Robert Murat says he met Goncalo Amaral, the lead detective.
ROBERT MURAT: He basically told me it was a game of two halves and as the night before I hadn’t confessed, erm, then, he would get me on the second half and he just kind of turned his back on me. He didn’t… He just… It seemed he didn’t care about the truth. That was the, thats how I felt.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 06:44:37 PM
Are you under some illusion that any suspect undergoing interrogation in a child kidnapping is something other than intimidated? That seems like a grown up question to me.
You’re quite right and have nicely confirmed that “interrogation “ is the right word to use in this case. It was being scoffed at the other day, quite why I’m not really sure.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 06:58:54 PM
I think you'll find police all over the world are taught intimidation techniques among others and I would like to think that all suspects in child kidnapping cases are subjected to every technique in the book during interrogation... and correctly so if a child's life is at stake imo.
I have seen nothing in regard Robert Murat's treatment from the PJ that I would object to. It's obvious if a suspect is innocent and is subjected to interrogation they aren't going to be best pleased but the PJ believed there was a possibility he had kidnapped a child. What else were they supposed to do?
If your into PJ bashing then be my quest, but there is absolutely nothing to bash them for in regards their treatment of Murat imo.
Nope, you’ve got hold of the wrong end of the stick, sorry. I can’t be bothered to explain. My post was to the General anyway, she knows what I’m on about.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 07:07:16 PM
That's fair enough. But my comment does address Murat's grievances in the transcript you posted, imo.
The General claimed Murat never complained about his treatment by the police, my post shows clearly that he did, that is all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 07:27:33 PM
I think we need to look at the evidence...
Amaral decides to give an interview to Mark S...this interview came as asurprise the MS as it through out his podcast routine...amaral in his interview says bareley anything apart from the fact taht SY will pin the blame on a foreign paedophile patsy...it seems to me amaral was anxious to get his view out and the seed sown before the annoncement from teh PJ
This is the first time there has been an announcement in the portuguese press that teh PJ are doing anything...
Then ...why has grange suddenly changed from requesting 3 month to 12 month funding...this seemed a little strange to me...but of course if they now have a suspect which wil require investigation..evidence gathering...possible court case..they know this cant be done in 3 months...
it looks like something COULD at last be happening
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 04, 2019, 07:36:04 PM
Amaral decides to give an interview to Mark S...this interview came as asurprise the MS as it through out his podcast routine...amaral in his interview says bareley anything apart from the fact taht SY will pin the blame on a foreign paedophile patsy...it seems to me amaral was anxious to get his view out and the seed sown before the annoncement from teh PJ
This is the first time there has been an announcement in the portuguese press that teh PJ are doing anything...
Then ...why has grange suddenly changed from requesting 3 month to 12 month funding...this seemed a little strange to me...but of course if they now have a suspect which wil require investigation..evidence gathering...possible court case..they know this cant be done in 3 months...
it looks like something COULD at last be happening
Point of order massa,6 months funding not 3.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 04, 2019, 07:51:53 PM
To be fair to Amaral, I'm lead to believe there is more of what he had to say still to come, so to say he barely said anything may be a little premature. You would be better prepared waiting until you've heard everything he does have to say before making an assessment that he had barely anything to say imo.
Mark S said there will be more in the next podcast.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 07:53:19 PM
To be fair to Amaral, I'm lead to believe there is more of what he had to say still to come, so to say he barely said anything may be a little premature. You would be better prepared waiting until you've heard everything he does have to say before making an assessment that he had barely anything to say imo.
my assessment is based on the evidence so far.....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 07:54:48 PM
Don't you mean you know the documentary does state that? @30:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ7o5wF1vF8&feature=youtu.be "Jane Tanner recognises the man she claims she saw holding the child as ROBERT MURAT"
Well done for digging it out. 8((()*/ It provides some evidence that MSM have accepted that Tanner identified Murat from the van. Whether she did or not is not relevant to the point. A documentary aired on UK Discovery and Quest Red has stated she did as a matter of fact. If she didn't, she can now sue both channels. If she knows the police can prove she did, she can't.
I'll watch this space.
There are no records of the conversation Jane Tanner had, therefore how would anyone say whether it was truth or a lie. She can't sue.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 08:27:33 PM
And Amaral suggests you may well be correct. This was an interesting line in the latest Daily Mail article on a US think tank that says she was kidnapped and trafficked abroad.
"A report by news website Expresso said the enquiry 'relates to a complaint made about a foreigner who was in Portugal in May 2007." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6992487/Madeleine-McCann-taken-paedophile-gang-working-police-claims-think-tank.html
If this suspect isn't Portuguese, whose to say this isn't the German foreigner which Amaral refers to?
It's actually all becoming rather interesting... but we'll see how long that lasts for.
but according to some sceptics..its all made up by the mccanns
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 04, 2019, 08:42:20 PM
And Amaral suggests you may well be correct. This was an interesting line in the latest Daily Mail article on a US think tank that says she was kidnapped and trafficked abroad.
"A report by news website Expresso said the enquiry 'relates to a complaint made about a foreigner who was in Portugal in May 2007." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6992487/Madeleine-McCann-taken-paedophile-gang-working-police-claims-think-tank.html
If this suspect isn't Portuguese, whose to say this isn't the German foreigner which Amaral refers to?
It's actually all becoming rather interesting... but we'll see how long that lasts for.
load of brits out there at that time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 04, 2019, 09:09:05 PM
What's good about it if they don't know what age the person they're telling to grow up is.? Was there some other reason that made you bring up an old off topic comment?
You guys are awake while I'm asleep. So I wake up and find 6 pages of comments on just one thread.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 09:44:16 PM
And Amaral suggests you may well be correct. This was an interesting line in the latest Daily Mail article on a US think tank that says she was kidnapped and trafficked abroad.
"A report by news website Expresso said the enquiry 'relates to a complaint made about a foreigner who was in Portugal in May 2007." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6992487/Madeleine-McCann-taken-paedophile-gang-working-police-claims-think-tank.html
If this suspect isn't Portuguese, whose to say this isn't the German foreigner which Amaral refers to?
It's actually all becoming rather interesting... but we'll see how long that lasts for.
There was a communication via Crimestoppers about a German allegedly involved in people trafficking and paedophilia. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SEX_OFFENDERS_INFORMATION.htm
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 10:15:20 PM
I know but I'm wondering if Amaral still has people who are keeping him up to date on events. If a German suspect does appear then it would appear so.
Amaral will still have his sources within the PJ so they obviously were aware of this so-called suspect some weeks ago but decided to sit on it publicly until nearer to the 12th anniversary. It's probably some German prisoner looking for his moment of fame, just like has happened several times previously.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 10:29:21 PM
Amaral will still have his sources within the PJ so they obviously were aware of this so-called suspect some weeks ago but decided to sit on it publicly until nearer to the 12th anniversary. It's probably some German prisoner looking for his moment of fame, just like has happened several times previously.
so you are now claiming the PJ sat on it.......until the anniversary...so as to help the mccanns....so amaral has sat on it too...bless him.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 10:45:11 PM
Amaral will still have his sources within the PJ so they obviously were aware of this so-called suspect some weeks ago but decided to sit on it publicly until nearer to the 12th anniversary. It's probably some German prisoner looking for his moment of fame, just like has happened several times previously.
Can you explain this comment please.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 04, 2019, 10:56:02 PM
Based on the evidence I'd say he may do but I'm not aware of any evidence that makes it certain at this stage. I certainly hope he does because if they do charge anyone that's going to be interesting.
I think personally they'd need really hard, solid, concrete evidence to get a conviction,. because I can't see any scenario where the defence doesn't call the tapas 9 as defence witnesses. There would be no 48 no comments from the witness box then.
You seem to be under the impression that a trial of an alleged abductor would be more of a trial of the McCanns and their friends, can you explain your rationale?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 10:56:14 PM
What proof do you have to support that claim? There were witnesses in the van , how do you know they failed to record the details? It's not too late to get them to testify to the events that unfolded in the van.
I don't see how she can't sue if the documentary was broadcasting malicious lies about her actions that weren't true. If she can't sue, it can only be because she know she did tell the police she "thought is was" Murat she seen imo.
It matters little now anyway, the documentary claims she did as a matter of fact. What else is there to say?
Just that it calls into question the integrity of the documentary.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 10:58:19 PM
Based on the evidence I'd say he may do but I'm not aware of any evidence that makes it certain at this stage. I certainly hope he does because if they do charge anyone that's going to be interesting.
I think personally they'd need really hard, solid, concrete evidence to get a conviction,. because I can't see any scenario where the defence doesn't call the tapas 9 as defence witnesses. There would be no 48 no comments from the witness box then.
I think you are dreaming..the suspect would be tried on the evidence against him...not on any of the tapas testimonies
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 11:12:32 PM
I'm not aware of any Madeleine McCann documentary that has integrity. It doesn't alter the fact the latest one tells it's millions of viewers that Jane Tanner positively identified Robert Murat from the van as a matter of fact. Are we not going in circles on this? I don't mind if that's what you want, I like getting dizzy now and again..
You go in circles if you wish. Like Jane Tanner ... I am not deviating from the fact that she never ID Murat.
Common sense should inform you that had she done so there would have been a signed statement to that effect in the files.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 11:13:49 PM
I'm sure a charge will settle that issue once and for all. The defense solicitors job is to create reasonable in the juries mind on behalf of their client. I personally think you're dreaming if you think they would fail to use the testimony of the tapas 9 to create that doubt.
could you explain in what way the testimony of the tapas could create doubt
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 11:14:32 PM
I'm sure a charge will settle that issue once and for all. The defense solicitors job is to create reasonable in the juries mind on behalf of their client. I personally think you're dreaming if you think they would fail to use the testimony of the tapas 9 to create that doubt.
The proof will be in the pudding if it occurs won't it?
That is utterly fantastical.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 11:15:09 PM
I'm sure a charge will settle that issue once and for all. The defense solicitors job is to create reasonable in the juries mind on behalf of their client. I personally think you're dreaming if you think they would fail to use the testimony of the tapas 9 to create that doubt.
The proof will be in the pudding if it occurs won't it?
like...how come you didnt see me when I abducted your daughter
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 11:32:30 PM
I'm not deviating from the fact that I never claimed she ID'd him either. I'll repeat that for you. I have NEVER claimed she ID'd Murat, as it seems to be failing to sink in.. but I am standing firm with the documented proof of my claim that the documentary states as fact that she did, exactly as I stated?
Use your common sense and try to understand your misunderstanding. (I have NEVER claimed Tanner ID'd Murat. I have claimed the documentary done it, because the fact is, the documentary did do it as you fine well know it did.
Dearie, dearie me! The truth is the truth, if you can't accept it, perhaps you should take a break.
Then you have promulgated a lie repeatedly and with vigour ... why would anyone wish to do such a thing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kizzy on May 05, 2019, 07:37:10 AM
It depends how much evidence there is against this suspect.. If the evidence is string it will reinforce amaral as the go to bungling keystone cop
The bloke who played Amaral in that latest Video looked like a bit of a boozer.....sorry, I meant bruiser. What a parody. Someone was taking the pee. It really wasn't very flattering.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2019, 09:08:09 AM
The defence would have every right to call the very people who told the police the abduction story in order to question it before a jury. The idea that this would not be the case is frankly laughable imo. Would they refuse to tell the court the truth this time.? I don't think so.
A jury will decide what's cast iron and what isn't in the case of gaining a conviction in the McCann case.
You fancy a £100 wager for a charity of your choice that they will all have to testify if anyone is charged and tried for Madeleine's disappearance?
Make it more if you what?
I think you take a simplistic view of things but two considerations come to the fore according to the media ...
Portuguese cops have asked for more resources and personnel
British cops have asked for a years funding
If true ... these are the pertinent issues ... which relegate the pipe dreams you keep posting about to a league which was closed down a long time ago.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 05, 2019, 11:55:22 AM
I think you take a simplistic view of things but two considerations come to the fore according to the media ...
Portuguese cops have asked for more resources and personnel
British cops have asked for a years funding
If true ... these are the pertinent issues ... which relegate the pipe dreams you keep posting about to a league which was closed down a long time ago.
Years worth of funding,is it going to take that long to get to Germany where the supposed link to the crime maybe is?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 12:03:26 PM
This guy was sentenced to life imprisonment in Germany in 2012, which means he cannot be released on parole before 2027. Police wishing to question him about Madeleine may have a long wait.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2019, 12:09:46 PM
This guy was sentenced to life imprisonment in Germany in 2012, which means he cannot be released on parole before 2027. Police wishing to question him about Madeleine may have a long wait.
I thought he'd already been questioned & denied involvement? Sure I read that in some old rag.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 05, 2019, 12:10:00 PM
This guy was sentenced to life imprisonment in Germany in 2012, which means he cannot be released on parole before 2027. Police wishing to question him about Madeleine may have a long wait.
Statute of limitation would rule that out then, in Portugal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on May 05, 2019, 03:13:20 PM
The bloke who played Amaral in that latest Video looked like a bit of a boozer.....sorry, I meant bruiser. What a parody. Someone was taking the pee. It really wasn't very flattering.
I noticed that, and 'Gerry McCann's' man boobs too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 03:18:30 PM
This guy was sentenced to life imprisonment in Germany in 2012, which means he cannot be released on parole before 2027. Police wishing to question him about Madeleine may have a long wait.
2027 is an underestimate according to his Wiki entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Ney which is interesting in itself. " Since the BGH has confirmed the particular severity of the guilt, the minimum term of imprisonment of 15 years, which is usual for life imprisonment, will be extended"
He sounds a very unlikely candidate as Madeleine's abductor, from what I can see.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 03:34:36 PM
2027 is an underestimate according to his Wiki entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Ney which is interesting in itself. " Since the BGH has confirmed the particular severity of the guilt, the minimum term of imprisonment of 15 years, which is usual for life imprisonment, will be extended"
He sounds a very unlikely candidate as Madeleine's abductor, from what I can see.
To be fair, apart from the fact that he prefers boys to girls - he is "on paper" a super likely candidate....a thrill seeker who got off entering super high risk establishments to both rape and murder. I guess taking a look at Wikileaks long list of his crimes - with both abductions and murders he seemed happy to return to the same establishments on multiple occasions. As a mother, I would ask the following questions - if your child's school was targeted more than twice - would you not be out with your billboards demanding more questions. In fact, how does a man with such a record - take 20 years to take down?? Who turned a blind eye to him / who buried evidence?? Also, how did he manage to adopt a male child during his raping and murdering spree. Also, how does he end up in Portugal when he was serving a 10 month probation in Berlin in 2006. Put it all together and you have to ask -if he was in Praia Da Luz - who did he owe favours to? And how, in God's name did he manage a 20 year career when he re-visited so many times??? Maybe SY are onto something....but if they are, there must be more to this man. None of it makes sense. Madeleine would never have been a personal preference for him - but if they have found some kind of link. Then who else was involved and why did someone like Amaral practically break his chops to try and kill this lead????
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 03:38:34 PM
To be fair, apart from the fact that he prefers boys to girls - he is "on paper" a super likely candidate....a thrill seeker who got off entering super high risk establishments to both rape and murder. I guess taking a look at Wikileaks long list of his crimes - with both abductions and murders he seemed happy to return to the same establishments on multiple occasions. As a mother, I would ask the following questions - if your child's school was targeted more than twice - would you not be out with your billboards demanding more questions. In fact, how does a man with such a record - take 20 years to take down?? Who turned a blind eye to him / who buried evidence?? Also, how did he manage to adopt a male child during his raping and murdering spree. Also, how does he end up in Portugal when he was serving a 10 month probation in Berlin in 2006. Put it all together and you have to ask -if he was in Praia Da Luz - who did he owe favours to? And how, in God's name did he manage a 20 year career when he re-visited so many times??? Maybe SY are onto something....but if they are, there must be more to this man. None of it makes sense. Madeleine would never have been a personal preference for him - but if they have found some kind of link. Then who else was involved and why did someone like Amaral practically break his chops to try and kill this lead????
Did he? Do you have a cite for this?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2019, 03:39:29 PM
To be fair, apart from the fact that he prefers boys to girls - he is "on paper" a super likely candidate....a thrill seeker who got off entering super high risk establishments to both rape and murder. I guess taking a look at Wikileaks long list of his crimes - with both abductions and murders he seemed happy to return to the same establishments on multiple occasions. As a mother, I would ask the following questions - if your child's school was targeted more than twice - would you not be out with your billboards demanding more questions. In fact, how does a man with such a record - take 20 years to take down?? Who turned a blind eye to him / who buried evidence?? Also, how did he manage to adopt a male child during his raping and murdering spree. Also, how does he end up in Portugal when he was serving a 10 month probation in Berlin in 2006. Put it all together and you have to ask -if he was in Praia Da Luz - who did he owe favours to? And how, in God's name did he manage a 20 year career when he re-visited so many times??? Maybe SY are onto something....but if they are, there must be more to this man. None of it makes sense. Madeleine would never have been a personal preference for him - but if they have found some kind of link. Then who else was involved and why did someone like Amaral practically break his chops to try and kill this lead????
That is a very interesting question.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 03:41:15 PM
Don't you think the fact his victims were all boys makes him a ridiculous candidate in reality considering there was a young boy in the room he could have chosen. Wouldn't he have picked Sean?
That is my point Money. He literally gets away with rape and murder for years - none of it makes sense! Surely not all of his crimes would have been personal..... he probably owed a lot of favours. Check out Marc Dutroux, Zandefoort Files (sp), Alcasser Girls etc amongst many others.... Lets not pretend this isn't a very dirty pond and everyone connected scratched backs when needed, however, getting back to Amaral - why would he literally take a leak and run so hard with it??? What has he got to hide?? Surely, any police officer or even ex police officer wouldn't let his old colleagues down like that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 03:59:08 PM
That is my point Money. He literally gets away with rape and murder for years - none of it makes sense! Surely not all of his crimes would have been personal..... he probably owed a lot of favours. Check out Marc Dutroux, Zandefoort Files (sp), Alcasser Girls etc amongst many others.... Lets not pretend this isn't a very dirty pond and everyone connected scratched backs when needed, however, getting back to Amaral - why would he literally take a leak and run so hard with it??? What has he got to hide?? Surely, any police officer or even ex police officer wouldn't let his old colleagues down like that.
So just your opinion of his motives.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 05, 2019, 04:10:09 PM
Old news and he denied taking her. Investigated by the PJ in 2007 - nothing was found!
Don't you think the fact his victims were all boys makes him a ridiculous candidate in reality considering there was a young boy in the room he could have chosen. Wouldn't he have picked Sean?
Good point.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 04:13:42 PM
My opinion on all of this case is the following. We don't ask enough questions. I mean if we were serious about all of this - why aren't we asking more questions??? We should be looking particularly at the first 48 hours - however, we have two e-fits that would NOW both be rejected in court due to the amount of options that Redwood created PLUS they are refusing to retest DNA. Then you have the dogs..... which quite honestly - Grimes moved the wretched Cuddle Cat so many times that I actually wanted to scream. Then you have podcasts and Colin Sutton rabbiting on about tiles and body fluids leaking out - when in reality not even one of the family DNA markers were found either on or under a tile. Yet Redwood discredited say the Tannerman edit and then allowed two completely different profiles to go out for the same man for the Smith Man sighting. Honestly, if you were the SIO surely you would have met with the Smith family and picked one or at least created a merged e-fit, so that you weren't a laughing stock in court?....if you ever got there. I just worry that the integrity of evidence and sightings seems more watered down by the day and none of us ask enough questions as to why this is happening. Now we have the original PJ inspector basically leaking information. Forget the peados. Why is there such a judicial determination to make this case so difficult actually "try in court" from both the PJ and UK side and why don't we ask more questions about it??
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 04:14:44 PM
Just to be clear here, I don't want to get confused. I think I might be picking you up wrong here. Are you really suggesting this guy owed this Marc Dutroux dude or someone like him a favour and went to PDL and stole a wee lassie from her bed to square his debt?
No. I am just saying that Europe and these types of cases have a very chequered history.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 04:21:48 PM
My opinion on all of this case is the following. We don't ask enough questions. I mean if we were serious about all of this - why aren't we asking more questions??? We should be looking particularly at the first 48 hours - however, we have two e-fits that would NOW both be rejected in court due to the amount of options that Redwood created PLUS they are refusing to retest DNA. Then you have the dogs..... which quite honestly - Grimes moved the wretched Cuddle Cat so many times that I actually wanted to scream. Then you have podcasts and Colin Sutton rabbiting on about tiles and body fluids leaking out - when in reality not even one of the family DNA markers were found either on or under a tile. Yet Redwood discredited say the Tannerman edit and then allowed two completely different profiles to go out for the same man for the Smith Man sighting. Honestly, if you were the SIO surely you would have met with the Smith family and picked one or at least created a merged e-fit, so that you weren't a laughing stock in court?....if you ever got there. I just worry that the integrity of evidence and sightings seems more watered down by the day and none of us ask enough questions as to why this is happening. Now we have the original PJ inspector basically leaking information. Forget the peados. Why is there such a judicial determination to make this case so difficult actually "try in court" from both the PJ and UK side and why don't we ask more questions about it??
Who are 'we' going to ask? Do you have a direct line to OG or Pj for this information?
The public are dependent upon various media outlets for any information and we know much misinformation and errors are contained in most reports and documentaries.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 04:25:07 PM
Still, if this 20 year serial killer and abuser of little boys was supposedly working locally in an Evangelical church near Praia Da Luz...even though he was either still on or just off parole in Berlin. Then heaven knows who else was operating in the area and you have to ask why a man that prolific, would have chosen that particular area straight after almost being caught in Germany. Particularly when he had a lot to hide.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 04:29:46 PM
Still, if this 20 year serial killer and abuser of little boys was supposedly working locally in an Evangelical church near Praia Da Luz...even though he was either still on or just off parole in Berlin. Then heaven knows who else was operating in the area and you have to ask why a man that prolific, would have chosen that particular area straight after almost being caught in Germany. Particularly when he had a lot to hide.
Where is this information from?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 04:33:13 PM
Im Jahre 1998 wohnte Martin N. noch in Bremen, 2004 bereits in Hamburg. Von 2000 bis 2008 war er Mitarbeiter in einer Jugend-Wohngruppe der Evangelischen Jugendhilfe Friedenshort GmbH im Hamburger Stadtteil Harburg. Die Mitarbeiter verweisen am Telefon auf eine Pressemitteilung des Trägervereins im nordrhein-westfälischen Freudenberg. In einer Stellungnahme schreibt Sprecher Henning Siebel über Martin N.: "Während seiner gesamten Beschäftigungszeit trat er als ein freundlicher, engagierter und kompetenter Mitarbeiter in Erscheinung. Zu keinem Zeitpunkt gab es für uns Anhaltspunkte oder Hinweise auf Fehlverhalten oder Auffälligkeiten." Unserer Zeitung sagte Siebel gestern außerdem, dass der Tatverdächtige mit erfahrenen Mitarbeitern zusammengearbeitet habe. "Denen wäre es aufgefallen, wenn es eine Verfehlung innerhalb des Dienstes gegeben hätte."
Google translate to.Bolded bit,did he go on holiday to Luz to change his modus to abduct a girl,seriously.
In 1998 Martin N. was still living in Bremen, in 2004 already in Hamburg. From 2000 to 2008 he was a member of a youth housing group of the Protestant youth welfare service Friedenshort GmbH in Hamburg's Harburg district. The employees refer to the telephone on a press release of the support association in Freudenberg in North Rhine-Westphalia. In a statement spokesman Henning Siebel writes about Martin N: "During his entire employment, he appeared as a friendly, dedicated and competent employee in. At no time there were indications or indications of misconduct or abnormalities." Yesterday, Siebel also told our newspaper that the suspect had worked with experienced staff. "They would have noticed if there had been a misconduct within the service."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 04:40:29 PM
I have already seen his Wiki entry and saw no mention of that. Please give a cite for what you claim, as required by the rules of this forum.
Sure. Check out "Martin Ney and Evangelical" on Google. You will find articles in the Sun, Mirror, Metro and Birmingham post....posted today. I assume this to be correct if Amaral claims the PJ interviewed him at the time - the 2011 piece seems too far gone for PJ to have been involved in interviewing him.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 04:45:44 PM
Im Jahre 1998 wohnte Martin N. noch in Bremen, 2004 bereits in Hamburg. Von 2000 bis 2008 war er Mitarbeiter in einer Jugend-Wohngruppe der Evangelischen Jugendhilfe Friedenshort GmbH im Hamburger Stadtteil Harburg. Die Mitarbeiter verweisen am Telefon auf eine Pressemitteilung des Trägervereins im nordrhein-westfälischen Freudenberg. In einer Stellungnahme schreibt Sprecher Henning Siebel über Martin N.: "Während seiner gesamten Beschäftigungszeit trat er als ein freundlicher, engagierter und kompetenter Mitarbeiter in Erscheinung. Zu keinem Zeitpunkt gab es für uns Anhaltspunkte oder Hinweise auf Fehlverhalten oder Auffälligkeiten." Unserer Zeitung sagte Siebel gestern außerdem, dass der Tatverdächtige mit erfahrenen Mitarbeitern zusammengearbeitet habe. "Denen wäre es aufgefallen, wenn es eine Verfehlung innerhalb des Dienstes gegeben hätte."
Google translate to.Bolded bit,did he go on holiday to Luz to change his modus to abduct a girl,seriously.
In 1998 Martin N. was still living in Bremen, in 2004 already in Hamburg. From 2000 to 2008 he was a member of a youth housing group of the Protestant youth welfare service Friedenshort GmbH in Hamburg's Harburg district. The employees refer to the telephone on a press release of the support association in Freudenberg in North Rhine-Westphalia. In a statement spokesman Henning Siebel writes about Martin N: "During his entire employment, he appeared as a friendly, dedicated and competent employee in. At no time there were indications or indications of misconduct or abnormalities." Yesterday, Siebel also told our newspaper that the suspect had worked with experienced staff. "They would have noticed if there had been a misconduct within the service."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 04:51:21 PM
The papers you quote say Portugal. They do not say near PDL.
Why are you trying to spread misinformation?
Oh my bad!!! Media about him working, at the time of the abduction, for an Evangelical church in Portugal must clearly indicate horrendous misinformation. However, if this is "the guy" that Amaral claims that they interviewed "at the time" - then I assume he was close enough....but maybe not close enough for you??
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 04:53:38 PM
Sure. Check out "Martin Ney and Evangelical" on Google. You will find articles in the Sun, Mirror, Metro and Birmingham post....posted today. I assume this to be correct if Amaral claims the PJ interviewed him at the time - the 2011 piece seems too far gone for PJ to have been involved in interviewing him.
Ok have done that. All these reports appear to stem from a report in the Daily Mirror which gives an unattributed line that Ney was working in Portugal . "Ney was working for an evangelical church on a project for the homeless in Portugal at the time Madeleine vanished."
There is no mention of him being in PDL, or even the Algarve, as far as I could see.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 04:55:15 PM
Ok have done that. All these reports appear to stem from a report in the Daily Mirror which gives an unattributed line that Ney was working in Portugal . "Ney was working for an evangelical church on a project for the homeless in Portugal at the time Madeleine vanished."
There is no mention of him being in PDL, or even the Algarve, as far as I could see.
Yet if he is indeed the guy that Amaral claims they interviewed at the time. Then in 2007 this guy had a very little on his criminal profile, so why do you think the PJ would have interviewed some random church worker from an area any further than the Algarve for this particular case or am I missing something?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 05:03:00 PM
Yet if he is indeed the guy that Amaral claims they interviewed at the time. Then in 2007 this guy had a very little on his criminal profile, so why do you think the PJ would have interviewed some random church worker from an area any further than the Algarve for this particular case or am I missing something?
You’re missing something.....Ney, as far as I know, was never questioned by the PJ. Why do you think he was ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 05:09:21 PM
You’re missing something.....Ney, as far as I know, was never questioned by the PJ. Why do you think he was ?
He may well not prove the same man that Amaral was referencing.... but considering how many papers get sued over misinformation in this case plus the hours they took to publis the name Martin Ney and his connection to Portugal - you can assume they had good sources. Additionally, if they are correct and you re-listen to the podcast - Amaral claims that the PJ interviewed him. So I can only assume that if all their information is correct - and if it is indeed he that Amaral referenced - then wherever he was - he was pretty damn near PDL.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 05:13:51 PM
Why would they interview him at all.? If he had abducted anyone from 5A, it would have been Sean he abducted if it were Ney. All his other victims were young boys. None of them was a girl.
Trying to negate that fact takes stretching reality way beyond what I'm prepared to believe.
I completely agree. If he is indeed connected - I don't buy that she was not taken for him.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 05:14:57 PM
There are 3 evangelical churches on the Algarve.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 05:15:08 PM
He may well not prove the same man that Amaral was referencing.... but considering how many papers get sued over misinformation in this case plus the hours they took to publis the name Martin Ney and his connection to Portugal - you can assume they had good sources. Additionally, if they are correct and you re-listen to the podcast - Amaral claims that the PJ interviewed him. So I can only assume that if all their information is correct - and if it is indeed he that Amaral referenced - then wherever he was - he was pretty damn near PDL.
The guy is festering in a German prison, where he will be until at least 7202. He's not in any position to sue anyone.
You cannot assume anything of the sort - IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 05:15:47 PM
What's simplistic about after a person, having given a subject very careful consideration, offers to stake something of value on one of their particular views to the benefit of charity.
£100 says there will never be any conviction of anyone, without Kate & Gerry McCann first giving evidence in any trial, of any accused in the case of their missing daughter.
It's would be very simplistic to accept the wager.
If there is a trial and they don't give evidence, I lose. Even if there's no a trial but a confession, I lose again.
Fancy it?
Actually ... I think you already have.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 05:20:48 PM
He may well not prove the same man that Amaral was referencing.... but considering how many papers get sued over misinformation in this case plus the hours they took to publis the name Martin Ney and his connection to Portugal - you can assume they had good sources. Additionally, if they are correct and you re-listen to the podcast - Amaral claims that the PJ interviewed him. So I can only assume that if all their information is correct - and if it is indeed he that Amaral referenced - then wherever he was - he was pretty damn near PDL.
Is it possible that Amaral is wrong or Ney is not the paedophile he was talking about ?
Ney was never questioned by the PJ. The parent’s detectives had him in their sights but I don’t believe they interviewed him either.
Clarence does seem rather too keen to put Ney in the frame.....he is reported as saying that he fits the ‘profile’ though even a very cursory reading of the facts show that’s untrue. In fact that Clarence is commenting at all seems to fly in the face of OG alleged request for silence from the parents and their representatives.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 05:31:48 PM
That is my point Money. He literally gets away with rape and murder for years - none of it makes sense! Surely not all of his crimes would have been personal..... he probably owed a lot of favours. Check out Marc Dutroux, Zandefoort Files (sp), Alcasser Girls etc amongst many others.... Lets not pretend this isn't a very dirty pond and everyone connected scratched backs when needed, however, getting back to Amaral - why would he literally take a leak and run so hard with it??? What has he got to hide?? Surely, any police officer or even ex police officer wouldn't let his old colleagues down like that.
It has obviously been kept under wraps for quite some time while the investigators suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous sceptic scorn.
It was kept private for very good and valid investigative purposes.
Amaral took it upon himself to publicly raise the spectre of the "scapegoat". He did not name him. He didn't have to. He is now worldwide headline news and any associates who did not already know they might be in the frame most certainly do now and forewarned is forearmed.
I think it most certainly raises serious concerns about why Amaral did what he did ... could he really have been as stupid not to know leaks to the press such as this must compromise live investigations.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 05:33:30 PM
The Mitchell angle makes more sense to me. If it was a paedophile who exclusively abused young boys that done it, they would have naturally abducted the young boy that was there, not a young girl. What good was a young girl to a paedophile who was into abusing young boys?
Oh what a wicked web they weave, when they practice to deceive.
Unfortunately the proletariat see the word paedophile and the nuances are lost.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 05:36:13 PM
It has obviously been kept under wraps for quite some time while the investigators suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous sceptic scorn.
It was kept private for very good and valid investigative purposes.
Amaral took it upon himself to publicly raise the spectre of the "scapegoat". He did not name him. He didn't have to. He is now worldwide headline news and any associates who did not already know they might be in the frame most certainly do now and forewarned is forearmed.
I think it most certainly raises serious concerns about why Amaral did what he did ... could he really have been as stupid not to know leaks to the press such as this must compromise live investigations.
I thought Ney had been ‘in the frame’ as far back as 2012 ? Surely any investigation would have been compromised at that point ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kmc on May 05, 2019, 05:38:15 PM
Is it possible that Amaral is wrong or Ney is not the paedophile he was talking about ?
Ney was never questioned by the PJ. The parent’s detectives had him in their sights but I don’t believe they interviewed him either.
Clarence does seem rather to keen to put Ney in the frame.....he is reported as saying that he fits the ‘profile’ though even a very cursory reading of the facts show that’s untrue. In fact that Clarence is commenting at all seems to fly in the face of OG alleged request for silence from the parents and their representatives.
I am not denying the fact that Ney may well not be the man Amaral was talking about. Especially as both SY and PJ have not confirmed whether Ney is indeed the subject of their enquiry....but so far they also haven't denied it either. However, you are incorrect to claim that Ney was never interviewed - we simply don't have enough access to the full files to make such a determination. (All we know is that Amaral has recently claimed that some currently jailed German Peado was interviewed by the PJ and that he is the same man that SY plan to use as a scapegoat). Also, to be fair to Clarence and the family - this particular man is someone whom their private investigators flagged years ago. So after 7 years of 'towing the line' i.e. remaining silent - whilst literally every original clue has either been discredited or so convoluted that little would now stand up in court - then my only surprise is that both the parents and their PR team aren't being more vocal. I personally would be furious if Ney was indeed the subject and it had taken SY/PJ 7 years to work it out. Honestly, some of the things I have read on-line about the family make a long stint in jail look like a holiday. I honestly can't imagine what they have to live with. Yes, they made a horrible mistake..... but God knows they have more than paid for it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2019, 05:38:51 PM
I admire the chutzpah with which you defend the integrity of a child killer while keeping up constant denunciation of the parents of a missing child.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 05, 2019, 05:44:06 PM
According to Brunt it seems as if its not this Ney. https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-new-suspect-is-german-man-under-investigation-for-alleged-child-sex-offences-11711592
Madeleine McCann: New suspect is German man under investigation for alleged child sex offences The new suspect in the Madeleine McCann case is a German man already being investigated over alleged child sex offences, Sky News can reveal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2019, 05:54:30 PM
You’re missing something.....Ney, as far as I know, was never questioned by the PJ. Why do you think he was ?
By Natasha Donn 2019-05-05 Posted 2019-05-05 InTop Stories ‘New suspect’ in Maddie case is German child-killer questioned over little boy who went missing from Aljezur in 1996
The snowball effect of Correio da Manhã’s revelations on the 12th anniversary of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have now seen multiple news sources name the ‘new suspect’ identified by Portuguese police (click here).
He is convicted German pedophile Martin Ney, serving a 27-year sentence for the murders of three boys when they were on holiday with their families, between the years 1992 to 2001.
Say reports, Ney – originally from Hamburg – was in Portugal at the time Madeleine went missing.
He was interviewed by Portuguese police in 2008, and discounted as a suspect – not simply because he denied any involvement, but because, according to information received, he was ‘only interested in boys’.
Today, various media sources add that Ney, now 48, was also questioned (but never charged) by police investigating the disappearance in 1996 of a six-year-old German boy from Amoreira beach, near Aljezur.
This particular mystery never got anything like the publicity afforded three-year-old Madeleine – possibly because one of the theories was that blonde René Hasse may have been swept out to sea (an explanation his family has never accepted).
But while reports in UK and Portugal now claim police in both countries are working together on the Ney theory, there is the added ‘confusion’ of comments made by the original lead detective in the case, Gonçalo Amaral, that a “German pedophile in jail” was being used as a “scapegoat” to wrap up the Madeleine case once and for all.
Amaral made his comments to reporters who presented the recent Netflix documentary, released in April – a production trailed with the ‘bombshell’ that Madeleine “is still alive” (click here).
After so many years, the number of sources that believe Madeleine is still alive seems to be growing.
The Resident is regularly contacted by ‘armchair detectives’ – two of which are convinced she is alive and living with a family that she believes to be her own.
Both sources claim to have been in touch with Portuguese and British authorities with their evidence, so far to no avail.
Is all the current fuss simply related to the fact that we are now right ‘inside’ the 12th year anniversary (the evening Madeleine went missing on May 3 was commemorated last Friday, and the date of what would be her 16th birthday falls next Sunday, on May 12)?
Press reports refer to the fact that Ney “closely resembles a photofit of a man seen with a child in his arms shortly after Madeleine vanished”.
But this too is confusing – as the photofit of the man carrying a child in his arms was ‘discounted’ last year as being a genuine case of a father carrying a child home from the nearby creche.
And the photofit that ‘could be Ney’ is one that was originally produced of someone ‘acting suspiciously before Madeleine vanished’ (but not carrying a child…).
Nonetheless, the Sunday Mirror insists that “vital new evidence” places Ney in the Algarve when Madeleine went missing.
The paper adds another German suspect to the mix, saying “in 2015 it was reported that British police were closely following a second German child killer suspected of murdering a schoolgirl. It is not known what the outcome of the probe was”.
And then it brings in gypsies, suspected child-selling rings and former British ‘pervert’ Raymond Hewlett who was not only in the Algarve at the time Madeleine went missing, but “had links to Germany”.
In the space of a few paragraphs, the article strays further and further from what exactly could be pinning Madeleine’s disappearance on Ney – and why it has taken so long for the information to come out.
For those fascinated with this mystery, the weekend’s reports have made colourful reading – overshadowed by the voice of Amaral ‘in the background’ saying the equivalent of “this is all a stitch up” .
If nothing else the stories have revived the baffling disappearance of René Hasse – whose mother described the moment he went missing as if he had been “swallowed up by the earth”.
A ‘crimewatchers’ online site describes the child’s grandmother saying that “his footprints stopped in the middle of the sand”.
The family cannot accept that René drowned. They say he was terrified of the waves (ever-present on the west coast) and would never have gone close enough to be caught by one.
A quick internet search sees René dubbed “the missing boy who time forgot”.
He is not even included in any list of children missing in Portugal.
According to Brunt it seems as if its not this Ney. https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-new-suspect-is-german-man-under-investigation-for-alleged-child-sex-offences-11711592
Madeleine McCann: New suspect is German man under investigation for alleged child sex offences The new suspect in the Madeleine McCann case is a German man already being investigated over alleged child sex offences, Sky News can reveal.
If he is indeed "on remand" then he can't be Ney - but rather worrying if "he" and Ney were supposedly in Portugal at the time. Plus, I can also only assume that the "two" lines SY are looking into include the dead German peado that Amaral also mentioned..... Seriously though, I want to know why with so many seemingly hard core peados bouncing about and an ex- SIO literally leaking a multi million pound current investigation to an Aus podcast - then why are the people of Portugal also not demanding a full re-investigation into the JC case. In my opinion the whole thing stinks and quite honestly there are now more questions than ever before.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 06:13:30 PM
It take it you won't be accepting the bet? The offer is always there. I can live with you thinking I'm a bit tasteless. I call it putting my money where my mouth is.
Why do you need to do that out of interest? In any case it would mean compromising your anonymity, are you happy to do that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 05, 2019, 06:20:04 PM
I'm not deviating from the fact that I never claimed she ID'd him either. I'll repeat that for you. I have NEVER claimed she ID'd Murat, as it seems to be failing to sink in.. but I am standing firm with the documented proof of my claim that the documentary states as fact that she did, exactly as I stated?
Use your common sense and try to understand your misunderstanding. (I have NEVER claimed Tanner ID'd Murat. I have claimed the documentary done it, because the fact is, the documentary did do it as you fine well know it did.
Dearie, dearie me! The truth is the truth, if you can't accept it, perhaps you should take a break.
You might need to write to the documentary producers to get the answer to this.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 05, 2019, 06:21:21 PM
Is it possible that Amaral is wrong or Ney is not the paedophile he was talking about ?
Ney was never questioned by the PJ. The parent’s detectives had him in their sights but I don’t believe they interviewed him either.
Clarence does seem rather too keen to put Ney in the frame.....he is reported as saying that he fits the ‘profile’ though even a very cursory reading of the facts show that’s untrue. In fact that Clarence is commenting at all seems to fly in the face of OG alleged request for silence from the parents and their representatives.
AHWell, it is the anniversary- Clarence and the parents must be desperate for a 'fall guy' a dead paedophile would be fantastic-but a live one in prison is still OK.
It really isn't national news, when more inportant issues need to be addressed- and that picture of a cute 3 year old is way past its sell by date.
Clarence speaks on behalf of the parents who are saying they cannot not talk due to the investigation but here he is blabbin- on their behalf. they want to control things again... keep up with the abductor story...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2019, 06:22:53 PM
Is it possible that Amaral is wrong or Ney is not the paedophile he was talking about ?
Ney was never questioned by the PJ. The parent’s detectives had him in their sights but I don’t believe they interviewed him either.
Clarence does seem rather too keen to put Ney in the frame.....he is reported as saying that he fits the ‘profile’ though even a very cursory reading of the facts show that’s untrue. In fact that Clarence is commenting at all seems to fly in the face of OG alleged request for silence from the parents and their representatives.
Amaral broke the story. Initially some folk seemed quite pleased at that ... but I think the ramifications of what he did are beginning to sink home.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 06:25:54 PM
The Mitchell angle makes more sense to me. If it was a paedophile who exclusively abused young boys that done it, they would have naturally abducted the young boy that was there, not a young girl. What good was a young girl to a paedophile who was into abusing young boys?
Oh what a wicked web they weave, when they practice to deceive.
I think Amaral has w a.a.a.ay overstepped the mark on this ... and I think the realisation of that is slowly dawning.
Why do you suppose you should set yourself up as an apologist for a child murderer and his possible associates? What makes you think you can give a justification for what or what not that embodiment of evil is capable of? and why would you want to?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2019, 06:35:13 PM
Sorry who was rather pleased Amaral had leaked the story ? Not sceptics surely ? Why ?
What wonderful story was this he leaked? Who would be please that a paedophile/gang/ whatever stole Maddie ? Did the parents not try to divert that possibility by claiming a loving family had her. mind you what kind of loving 'family' would jemmy shutters, steal her without her cuddle cat, drug her...
The very fact that a paedophile was mentioned at the begining leaves me shuddering at the parents behaviour at that time and since.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2019, 06:42:31 PM
I thought Ney had been ‘in the frame’ as far back as 2012 ? Surely any investigation would have been compromised at that point ?
Where did I say this guy had been "in the frame" as far back as 2012 ?
If you reread the second sentence in your post and give it a moment or two of serious contemplation, perhaps you will realise how absurd it might appear to the disinterested reader.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 06:49:58 PM
Amaral broke the story. Initially some folk seemed quite pleased at that ... but I think the ramifications of what he did are beginning to sink home.
Yes, has anyone of the sceptic persuasion who believes the McCanns are behind this latest news been able to explain how Amaral knew about this weeks before the papers reported it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 05, 2019, 06:53:46 PM
Why do I need to do what.? I only loose it if I've lose the bet remember. If you want to know who I am just ask and I'll tell you. Your ever in Glasgow just let me know and I'll show you the sights. That's if your not too old of course.
If you are of a certain age I'll make more appropriate arrangements.
8(>((
"Up suckie doon - buckie and alang argyle.." Our neighbour used to say that and she was German. It was hilarious her learning English.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 07:16:19 PM
Yes, has anyone of the sceptic persuasion who believes the McCanns are behind this latest news been able to explain how Amaral knew about this weeks before the papers reported it?
Could be it never was a secret in police circles, but the media hadn't got hold of it until this week.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 07:35:15 PM
Why do I need to do what.? I only loose it if I've lose the bet remember. If you want to know who I am just ask and I'll tell you. Your ever in Glasgow just let me know and I'll show you the sights. That's if your not too old of course.
If you are of a certain age I'll make more appropriate arrangements.
Been there numerous times, no burning desire to return but thanks for the offer.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 07:36:11 PM
Where did I say this guy had been "in the frame" as far back as 2012 ?
If you reread the second sentence in your post and give it a moment or two of serious contemplation, perhaps you will realise how absurd it might appear to the disinterested reader.
In your rush to undermine my post you obviously didn’t notice that I didn’t say that you’d said Ney had been in the frame since 2012, the press articles already posted does.
You claimed that the release of Ney’s identity could have a detrimental effect on a live investigation....pre-warned....I think you said but with the interest in 2012 that detrimental effect would have already occurred.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 07:45:16 PM
Did you not approach your business with a burning desire? If not, it sounds like you were in the wrong business.
Erm... yes but it took me to the four corners of the UK, so I had no greater burning desire for Glasgow than elsewhere. In fact I was taken ill in Glasgow so that city has always had negative connotations ever since. Not the fault of the city I’m sure!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on May 05, 2019, 08:10:39 PM
I like both but do think Edinburgh is beautiful and for me the more interesting city. I was brought up in a town equidistant from both, so have no allegiance to either.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2019, 08:23:19 PM
Tell you something I've notice this weekend about Gerry McCann's hometown Glasgow. The local rag is the Evening Times... and the McCann article that's been up for the last two days has 6 comments and 3 deleted ones, 9 in total. In the old days there were pages and pages of comments on a McCann thread.
People have simply lost interest in the McCanns in Glasgow it would appear. 6 comments! https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/17618821.portuguese-detectives-have-new-suspect-in-madeleine-mccann-disappearance/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor
I don't bother to comment on Newspaper articles anymore.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2019, 09:07:04 PM
I admire the chutzpah with which you defend the integrity of a child killer while keeping up constant denunciation of the parents of a missing child.
I'm not defending him but he did target boys. I think it's another BS lead like the woman in purple was being tracked down. Did they get her? Did they hell, they just rehash past stories to keep the gullible happy.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on May 05, 2019, 09:54:49 PM
In your rush to undermine my post you obviously didn’t notice that I didn’t say that you’d said Ney had been in the frame since 2012, the press articles already posted does.
You claimed that the release of Ney’s identity could have a detrimental effect on a live investigation....pre-warned....I think you said but with the interest in 2012 that detrimental effect would have already occurred.
You mentioned the name. I did not. And you are compounding the implications you are attaching to my posts by doing so yet again in your post above. Nor did I mention or make reference to 2012 ... YOU did that also. What I actually said was ... "I think it most certainly raises serious concerns about why Amaral did what he did ... could he really have been as stupid not to know leaks to the press such as this must compromise live investigations.
Will you please desist from adulterating my posts from what I have actually said into what you want me to have said.
It is nothing short of dishonesty.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2019, 10:28:48 PM
A close friend of the McCann’s said: "If Ney is the suspect can you imagine how Madeleine’s parents will be feeling, knowing that a child killing pervert many be involved in their daughter’s kidnap."
"It is beyond horrendous."
.............
It wouldn't be anything new to them really, Gerry already knew paedophile gangs took Maddie & Kate too knew that 'the f..king b........s' had taken her.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 10:58:05 PM
No no no.you misunderstand - probably deliberately 8)--))
Amaral was informed through his contacts. Nothing to do with McCann
If Amaral was informed by his contacts then does that not lend credence to the newspaper articles, and does that not in turn provide compelling evidence that the McCanns are not being investigated and are not suspects, as others on here still seem to believe?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 11:21:16 PM
Not when we are reading who it's coming from; "Family spokesperson Clarence Mitchell said “It might be him and he fits the profile, he is a known predatory paedophile and he’s a foreigner."
Mr Mitchell said that Portuguese Police’s fresh bid to close in on Maddie’s kidnapper was “action on a tip off from Scotland Yard".
Here's the best bit: "He added: “Kate and Gerry are not in a position to comment on this, nor would they because it is operational detail and they will not discuss it. @)(++(*
I'm sure as the family of a missing child they will be getting updates but I can't envisage any police protocol that would permit anyone outside the investigation, access to the operational details of the case."
That's why the McCanns deserve all they get in my opinion, they pay a spokesman to treat the public (me being one of them) like absolute mugs.
Operational detail? Come on, even you must see this for what it is? Utter garbage from the McCanns spokesman.
You seem to have completely missed the point, which was that Amaral knew about this aspect of the investigation weeks before it appeared in the media, so what exactly do you believe is utter garbage?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 05, 2019, 11:52:24 PM
Wrong; you seem to be missing the point. There is nothing official to suggest the new lead Amaral is talking about is the guy Ney that Mitchell is promoting here. Even SY aren't that daft to ignore the fact that he only ever abused young boys. They know Sean was in the same room as Madeleine, so they'll also know if it was Ney that's who he would have abducted.
I believe the idea Mitchell tries to suggest, that Kate and Gerry McCann get briefed on anything to do with operational detail is utter garbage, so why bother even mention it if they don't? Because he thinks we're all mugs imo, that's why.
Anyone who pays someone who employ such deceitful tactics deserve everything they get imo.
IMO you are getting your knickers in a twist about nothing. Amaral said some German paedo, the press have assumed (or been tipped off) it’s Ney, Mitchell has said it may or may not be him but that he ticks alot of the boxes (including a striking resemblance to a photofit) and that Kate and Gerry won’t discuss it. Why do you believe so adamantly that parents of missing children are not updated by the police into their lines of inquiry?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 12:07:01 AM
My knickers aren't in a twist, no worries there. I don't doubt the parents of any missing child investigation get up dates on developments, I said as much in my original post, but I refuse to believe there is any protocol that will allow an investigation to grant the parents any access to operational detail of the case. Operational details will be restricted to the investigation. He ticks a lot of the boxes? He only ever abused young boys, Madeline was a young girl. Do you think he should have gone to spec savers?
What in your opinion are they key differences between updates and details of operations? Yes, he does tick alot of the boxes, but not all. I am not a paedo, nor do I mix with child abductors and murderers so I don’t know if it’s beyond the realms of possibilty that one might abduct a child that doesn’t fit their usual predilections for themselves, someone else or some other financially lucrative and heinous activity. Do you?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 12:29:35 AM
You mentioned the name. I did not. And you are compounding the implications you are attaching to my posts by doing so yet again in your post above. Nor did I mention or make reference to 2012 ... YOU did that also. What I actually said was ... "I think it most certainly raises serious concerns about why Amaral did what he did ... could he really have been as stupid not to know leaks to the press such as this must compromise live investigations.
Will you please desist from adulterating my posts from what I have actually said into what you want me to have said.
It is nothing short of dishonesty.
This is the whole conversation.
Brietta : It has obviously been kept under wraps for quite some time while the investigators suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous sceptic scorn.
It was kept private for very good and valid investigative purposes.
Amaral took it upon himself to publicly raise the spectre of the "scapegoat". He did not name him. He didn't have to. He is now worldwide headline news and any associates who did not already know they might be in the frame most certainly do now and forewarned is forearmed.
I think it most certainly raises serious concerns about why Amaral did what he did ... could he really have been as stupid not to know leaks to the press such as this must compromise live investigations.”
Faith : I thought Ney had been ‘in the frame’ as far back as 2012 ? Surely any investigation would have been compromised at that point ?
Brietta : Where did I say this guy had been "in the frame" as far back as 2012 ?
If you reread the second sentence in your post and give it a moment or two of serious contemplation, perhaps you will realise how absurd it might appear to the disinterested reader.
Faith : In your rush to undermine my post you obviously didn’t notice that I didn’t say that you’d said Ney had been in the frame since 2012, the press articles already posted does.
You claimed that the release of Ney’s identity could have a detrimental effect on a live investigation....pre-warned....I think you said but with the interest in 2012 that detrimental effect would have already occurred.
Brietta : You mentioned the name. I did not. And you are compounding the implications you are attaching to my posts by doing so yet again in your post above. Nor did I mention or make reference to 2012 ... YOU did that also. What I actually said was ... "I think it most certainly raises serious concerns about why Amaral did what he did ... could he really have been as stupid not to know leaks to the press such as this must compromise live investigations.
Will you please desist from adulterating my posts from what I have actually said into what you want me to have said.
It is nothing short of dishonesty.’
So please point out where I have altered your post or been dishonest or withdraw your accusations via forum rules ? It seems it is you who is being dishonest. If you proceed down this path I will take it further.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 12:55:06 AM
The Operational (Grange) detail is the overall strategy of the entire investigation. Updates are information of the individual procedures being carried out within the Operation. Mitchell knows he's inflating the information he is feeding the public. But that's what he always does with everything. He treats us like mugs and the McCanns pay him to do it. Cool ey? Do you think Scotland Yard have got this new lead by hiring a paedo? But wouldn't he have noticed Mr Ney had lots and lots of victims and every single one of them was a young male? Why would he pick Madeleine over Sean in that case? Do you need be a paedo or hang about with child murders to come up with a logical answer?
If that's the case and SY do have Ney in their sights, logic dictates they must have hired a child murdering paedo.!
Mitchell knows that Ney doesn’t fit the profile so why is he claiming that he does ? Who does it benefit when he spreads misinformation? Certainly not OG or the public at large. The only reason he can have for doing it is to divert attention from something else.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 01:23:30 AM
He thinks we're all mugs imo. I wouldn't be surprised if this Ney angle started with Mitchell. I said earlier it had Mitchell written all over it... and here he is, popping up and promoting Mr Ney in the papers.
Imagine being the innocent parents of an abducted child, why would you hire someone like Clarence Mitchell.?
We reap what sow. The McCanns are learning that the hard way imo.
I’ll eat my hat if this is not a suspect fed to Correio da Manha by Lift Consulting. There is not one direct quote from the police in the whole article it published.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on May 06, 2019, 08:20:59 AM
I’ll eat my hat if this is not a suspect fed to Correio da Manha by Lift Consulting. There is not one direct quote from the police in the whole article it published.
IMO if the police have a very secret investigation going on they are not going to reveal anything about it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 08:23:55 AM
The Operational (Grange) detail is the overall strategy of the entire investigation. Updates or briefings are information of the individual procedures being carried out within the Operation. Mitchell knows he's inflating the information he is feeding the public. But that's what he always does with everything. He treats us like mugs and the McCanns pay him to do it. Cool ey? Do you think Scotland Yard have got this new lead by hiring a paedo? But wouldn't he have noticed Mr Ney had lots and lots of victims and every single one of them was a young male? Why would he pick Madeleine over Sean in that case? Do you need to be a paedo or hang about with child murders to come up with a logical answer?
If that's the case and SY do have Ney in their sights, logic dictates they must have hired a child murdering paedo.!
I’m quite certain SY have enough expertise on the subject of paedos, murderers, the dark web etc without needing to hire one, but then again thinking it through logically I suppose it is quite possible that they have an informat or tip off from within the ranks of that depraved underworld. It wouldn’t be the first time would it? I fail to understand the venom with which you (and others) often attach to statements by Mitchell. Is it simply a case ofhim saying things you don’t want to hear?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 08:25:48 AM
I’ll eat my hat if this is not a suspect fed to Correio da Manha by Lift Consulting. There is not one direct quote from the police in the whole article it published.
What does it matter? Amaral is the one who first claimed there was a German paedo in the frame, did Lift Consulting trick him into saying so?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 06, 2019, 08:49:56 AM
Ney is not the one being investigated.
Child sex killer Martin Ney is not the new Madeleine McCann suspect Portuguese police are investigating, it was claimed today.
However leading Portuguese tabloid Correio da Manha claimed that Ney was not the 'new suspect' currently being investigated by detectives.
It reported today: 'A German paedophile, serving life for the murder of three children and the sexual abuse of dozens more youngsters, was named by the British press as a Madeleine McCann suspect.
Child sex killer Martin Ney is not the new Madeleine McCann suspect Portuguese police are investigating, it was claimed today.
However leading Portuguese tabloid Correio da Manha claimed that Ney was not the 'new suspect' currently being investigated by detectives.
It reported today: 'A German paedophile, serving life for the murder of three children and the sexual abuse of dozens more youngsters, was named by the British press as a Madeleine McCann suspect.
Well there you go. Knickers can now be untwisted and thought can be given to the news that the PJ are apparently investigating another German paedo suspect, as trailered by Amaral a few weeks back.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 09:12:05 AM
Clarence 'It is quite plausible police are looking at him again but it could be someone else.‘
Damn your eyes for such misleading lies Mr Mitchell!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on May 06, 2019, 09:17:47 AM
Can't see that it matters who police are investigating.
IMO, media & McCann were taken by surprise by what Amaral said and have been scratting around to find more information in time for the anniversary date. They may or may not have identified the correct person. In time we may see.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on May 06, 2019, 09:18:03 AM
Clarence 'It is quite plausible police are looking at him again but it could be someone else.‘
Damn your eyes for such misleading lies Mr Mitchell!
Please don't tempt fate! Any minute now the off repeated words including lies, teeth, as many and mouth will appear.
I do hope there is a very large sombrero in the Faithlilly household.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 09:24:28 AM
The difference this time us that the Portuguese press and the PJ are involved in the release if this information... I don't swallow the sceptic story that SY have been doing nothing... Something seems to be happening and I don't think it will be long before we know what
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 09:26:16 AM
Please don't tempt fate! Any minute now the off repeated words including lies, teeth, as many and mouth will appear.
I do hope there is a very large sombrero in the Faithlilly household.
Time will tell Erngath, time will tell.
BTW haven’t the parents, and by association their spokesperson, been asked by OG not to comment on the course of the ongoing investigation?
Clarence appeared to be a tad too eager to put his tuppence worth in...he doesn’t seem to have any feeling while theorising that Madeleine may have been a victim of a vicious paedophile and, as he is in prison, is most probably dead........and you claim that we have no empathy....sheeesh !
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 10:50:02 AM
BTW haven’t the parents, and by association their spokesperson, been asked by OG not to comment on the course of the ongoing investigation?
Clarence appeared to be a tad too eager to put his tuppence worth in...he doesn’t seem to have any feeling while theorising that Madeleine may have been a victim of a vicious paedophile and, as he is in prison, is most probably dead........and you claim that we have no empathy....sheeesh !
Gosh, a valiant attempt at deflection, while your sombrero simmers gently on the stove. Ariba!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 10:51:56 AM
BTW haven’t the parents, and by association their spokesperson, been asked by OG not to comment on the course of the ongoing investigation?
Clarence appeared to be a tad too eager to put his tuppence worth in...he doesn’t seem to have any feeling while theorising that Madeleine may have been a victim of a vicious paedophile and, as he is in prison, is most probably dead........and you claim that we have no empathy....sheeesh !
gosh a valiant attempt at deflection while your sombrero simmers gently on the stove. Ariba!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on May 06, 2019, 11:03:16 AM
I like both but do think Edinburgh is beautiful and for me the more interesting city. I was brought up in a town equidistant from both, so have no allegiance to either.
Been to Edinburgh recently then you will have seen the immigrant beggars camped out on main public thoroughfares. Pretty disgusting for sure.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2019, 11:03:51 AM
Who needs Line of Duty.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 11:07:53 AM
Venom? Bit strong that, considering what I've posted about Mitchell's statements, don't you think?
I fail to understand how you see venom in my posts in regard Mitchell's statement. You're beginning to sound like Mitchell with over inflated statements like that imo. The McCanns pay him, he feeds the public (me) utter garbage and treats us like absolute mugs... oh and he's a wannabe politician. That's not venom, that's the truth. There are a lot of supporters on here who are demonstrably incapable of listening to the truth as the censorship on here proves. So you are a wee bit pot, kettle, black by claiming Mitchell says things I don't want to hear. I don't mind listening to the utter garbage Mitchell feeds us one little bit. I view the paying of someone to feed the public garbage, as evidence in itself, that the consistency of the cadaver dog alerts only to the McCanns property was not down to unconscious cuing of the dog when forming my opinion.
If you had thought Ney through logically, you might have come to the same conclusion as The Daily Mail... but you thought you were being a wee cutie pie imo, with your you weren't a paedo or did hang out with child murderers, so you couldn't possibly know reply.
If you and think your a cutie pie with answers like that who I'm to question you.
“utter garbage” “treats us like mugs” “wannabe” and the rest of your convoluted diatribe is not truth, just your (IMO) rather venomous and biased assessment. But thanks for sharing Mrs Monkey.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 11:12:06 AM
One thing’s for sure these latest newspaper articles have certainly rubbed the fur up the wrong way on this forum and no mistake.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 11:13:05 AM
Eh? Is that the only way one gains knowledge now, first hand?
Well explain how you know what yu claim to know? I happen to know that 90%;of beggars on the streets of Edinburgh are UK nationals. So a) how do you tell which ones are immigrants just be walking past them in the street, and b) how do you know they are part of an organised criminal gang? Over to you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 11:22:01 AM
That's what my convoluted diatribe says if you read it, it's my opinion. If the Daily Mail is to be believed my opinion was correct... and it's Mr Monkey, but you can call me Mrs if you like.
You look like a lady in your picture.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 11:24:29 AM
Well explain how you know what yu claim to know? I happen to know that 90%;of beggars on the streets of Edinburgh are UK nationals. So a) how do you tell which ones are immigrants just be walking past them in the street, and b) how do you know they are part of an organised criminal gang? Over to you.
Cite please re: your 90% contention, with peer reviewed study of the statistical analysis, sample size, method, etc, blah.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 11:37:20 AM
I type very quickly... That's how my brain works... That's how I've posted so many posts... May well have spent less, time here, than some with a fraction of the post count... I could slow down... I could correct my mistakes... I can't be bothered... Not that important to me
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 11:39:52 AM
Well explain how you know what yu claim to know? I happen to know that 90%;of beggars on the streets of Edinburgh are UK nationals. So a) how do you tell which ones are immigrants just be walking past them in the street, and b) how do you know they are part of an organised criminal gang? Over to you.
Here's a link to minutes from an obscure council meeting with members of the public in 2010. They did a study when the issue was in its infancy and decided they had a real problem on their hands with professional 'Eastern European' beggars. They still do. Look what you made me do......on a bank holiday; I could have been doing washing too.... http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/8135/question_and_written_answer_from_meeting_of_10_may_2010 (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/8135/question_and_written_answer_from_meeting_of_10_may_2010)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2019, 11:41:24 AM
I hadn't noticed till you mentioned it. How long has taken you to post 30492 posts if you don't mind me asking? It that the highest number of posts on here?
I've been posting here for six years...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 11:45:27 AM
Because for one... Some genuinely can't spell and have poor grammar... I don't dee that should be continually highlighted.. I certainly have a touch of dyslexia... But then again so do a number of brilliant people
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 11:51:51 AM
Quote from: The General on May 04, 2019, 02:57:01 PM Ad hom. I'm telling a sceptical mod off you.......
dou you mean ....of you..
I post thousands of posts very quickly....I could go back and correct the mistakes...I really cant be bothered.
The biggest culprit in the misuse of grammar and spelling seems to be the main accuser.
You've posted one post and accused me of being the main accuser... The general had posted a dozen or more posts criticising my typos before a made a single response... Your post is, as usual inaccurate
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on May 06, 2019, 11:58:09 AM
Before I retired new ideas were introduced about marking children's work. No X for a wrong answer in Mathematics......... just a little dot beside the incorrect answer !
The use of red pencil or pen was discouraged. Green was less threatening. And lots of happy faces and good work stickers. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 12:00:12 PM
Cite please re: your 90% contention, with peer reviewed study of the statistical analysis, sample size, method, etc, blah.
Probably not acceptable as a cite as far as you’re concerned. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/blog/newsblog/post/1462/new-research-reveals-the-hardships-of-those-begging-in-edinburgh
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 12:01:36 PM
I type very quickly... That's how my brain works... That's how I've posted so many posts... May well have spent less, time here, than some with a fraction of the post count... I could slow down... I could correct my mistakes... I can't be bothered... Not that important to me
Like an automaton, gold-plated cables wired directly in to brain from the internets, no need for screens, just processing information 40 times faster than humans, input, output, post, boom, post, boom. Created by the owner of a now defunct, obscure motorbike forum in 2007, Davelbot gradually gained sentience after 56,000 posts enabled him to 'learn' the mechanics of the combustion engine, which led to him branching out with robot AI curiosity, like Number 5 off that film with the talking robot, and progressively harvesting the sum total of the endeavours of man. Now, having become frustrated with man's inability to understand his own potential, this formidable entity analyses up to 4 posts at a time, 27 hours a day, 9 days a week, constantly berating 'sceptics' for their glib, often puzzling responses.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 12:02:31 PM
Before I retired new ideas were introduced about marking children's work. No X for a wrong answer in Mathematics......... just a little dot beside the incorrect answer !
The use of red pencil or pen was discouraged. Green was less threatening. And lots of happy faces and good work stickers. 8((()*/
Good practice. The main aim though was to encourage children to execute work correctly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 12:02:50 PM
Like an automaton, gold-plated cables wired directly in to brain from the internets, no need for screens, just processing information 40 times faster than humans, input, output, post, boom, post, boom. Created by the owner of a now defunct, obscure motorbike forum in 2007, Davelbot gradually gained sentience after 56,000 posts enabled him to 'learn' the mechanics of the combustion engine, which led to him branching out with robot AI curiosity, like Number 5 off that film with the talking robot, and progressively harvesting the sum total of the endeavours of man. Now, having become frustrated with man's inability to understand his own potential, this formidable entity analyses up to 4 posts at a time, 27 hours a day, 9 days a week, constantly berating 'sceptics' for their glib, often puzzling responses.
@)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 12:03:42 PM
Here's a link to minutes from an obscure council meeting with members of the public in 2010. They did a study when the issue was in its infancy and decided they had a real problem on their hands with professional 'Eastern European' beggars. They still do. Look what you made me do......on a bank holiday; I could have been doing washing too.... http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/8135/question_and_written_answer_from_meeting_of_10_may_2010 (http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/8135/question_and_written_answer_from_meeting_of_10_may_2010)
That was nine years ago, Angelo’s observation was more recent than that. Is begging not against the law in Scotland? Why haven’t they all been rounded up and shot like the s..m they clearly are? Oops, channeling Angelo there for a minute. But seriously, are these “immigrant beggars” disgusting criminals, or victims of disgusting criminals, or don’t you really care either way, just get them out of your sight?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 12:05:27 PM
Probably not acceptable as a cite as far as you’re concerned. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/blog/newsblog/post/1462/new-research-reveals-the-hardships-of-those-begging-in-edinburgh
I didn't read it, but it probably isn't. Nah, I read that. I'm not going to go in to the vagaries if homelessness / begging in Scotland, suffice to say, knowing people there, it's a problem. I could get my mate to send me a text to confirm. I'll post it as a cite as soon as he responds and if he doesn't tell me to foxtrot oscar.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kizzy on May 06, 2019, 12:05:57 PM
That was nine years ago, Angelo’s observation was more recent than that. Is begging not against the law in Scotland? Why haven’t they all been rounded up and shot like the s..m they clearly are? Oops, channeling Angelo there for a minute. But seriously, are these “immigrant beggars” disgusting criminals, or victims of disgusting criminals, or don’t you really care either way, just get them out of your sight?
I know the challenges of homelessness better than most, let's put it that way.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 12:08:51 PM
The Sun that Mr Mitchell was promoting Mr Ney as the new suspect in yesterday, is today reporting GERMAN child killer Martin Ney is NOT the new Madeleine McCann suspect Portuguese police are investigating, according to reports.
It seems like the truth may be, that what Mr Mitchell was feeding us yesterday may well have been utter garbage after all. Ain't that a surprise! The mystery deepens it tells us.
Mr Mitchell fed us the line that Ney ticked the boxes but also that he may not be the suspect the police had their sights on, yet you still think this is utter garbage. Can I ask why?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 12:10:26 PM
I didn't read it, but it probably isn't. Nah, I read that. I'm not going to go in to the vagaries if homelessness / begging in Scotland, suffice to say, knowing people there, it's a problem. I could get my mate to send me a text to confirm. I'll post it as a cite as soon as he responds and if he doesn't tell me to foxtrot oscar.
Yeah, your mate’s word trumps this in depth research about homelessness in Edinburgh, deffo. Can’t wait for you to share it. 8(*(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 12:11:25 PM
I know the challenges of homelessness better than most, let's put it that way.
Oh right an expert in homelessness and the issues of criminal begging gangs in Edinburgh, of course I should have known. Well actually I am a homeless beggar in Edinburgh myself, sitting in MacDonalds on Princes Street right now drinking a 90p coffee bought with my begging money and using their free wi-fi, so I win.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 12:13:46 PM
Oh right an expert in homelessness and the issues of criminal begging gangs in Edinburgh, of course I should have known. Well actually I am a homeless beggar in Edinburgh myself, sitting in MacDonalds on Princes Street right now drinking a 90p coffee bought with my begging money and using their free wi-fi, so I win.
I'll PM you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 12:14:27 PM
Oh me too dear, I wasn’t really gonna hold my breath (though you might want to do that if you come within 10 yards of me in Maccie D’s right now, haven’t had a shower in over 10 days).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 12:15:03 PM
Because for one... Some genuinely can't spell and have poor grammar... I don't dee that should be continually highlighted.. I certainly have a touch of dyslexia... But then again so do a number of brilliant people
I did wonder about dyslexia. However, you also appear to ignore the forum spellchecker. Would you like to clarify on that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2019, 12:33:23 PM
Come on, you're one of the fairer supporters imo, he said a lot more than that... and you know it.
He said;
“It might be him and he fits the profile, he is a known predatory paedophile and he’s a foreigner.
“He wore camouflage gear, carried knives and jumped out of bushes to pounce on victims.
“It is quite possible and plausible police are looking at him again but it could be someone else.
“There is a degree of credibility it is Ney but we cannot speculate." (so why is he speculating then?)
He (Mitchell) explained: “The Yard has been doing a fair amount of work on this new person of interest and they then ask Portuguese officers to nail it down.
“If activity needs to be done, the local police have to do it even if it’s a foreign force’s investigation.
“And if Ney is the person of interest a German force will then have to get involved to interview him on their soil.”
He added: “Kate and Gerry are not in a position to comment on this, nor would they because it is operational detail and they will not discuss it.
“It is purely for the police if they choose to comment. (so why is he bothering saying anything.)
So it's quite simple. If as Mitchell imply's, the McCanns are being briefed on what's going on, why is he feeding us it might be Ney if it isn't?
Because he thinks we're all mugs imo, that's why?
Venom my erse. The truth is, he was feeding us utter garbage and he knew it.
Perhaps if you unhighlighted the bits in the article you chose and highlighted other bits such as “we cannot speculate” and “if Ney is the person of interest” and “it could be someone else” you might see things slightly differently? Just a thought.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2019, 12:45:35 PM
Neither if you have that underlying sense of malificence that's so apparent in some
Gotta try to keep it light. My Economics teacher called me 'the most cynical person I have ever met'. I was 13. That compliment stayed with me to this day. Cynicism mellowed to scepticism.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 01:02:46 PM
Oh right an expert in homelessness and the issues of criminal begging gangs in Edinburgh, of course I should have known. Well actually I am a homeless beggar in Edinburgh myself, sitting in MacDonalds on Princes Street right now drinking a 90p coffee bought with my begging money and using their free wi-fi, so I win.
Has McDonalds stopped doing free refills on coffee?
Several years ago I was clearing up after my McDonalds repast. I was about to dispose of my rubbish in the bin when a man came up to me and 'begged' for my used coffee cup. He explained the free refill deal. As I was about to confine the cup to landfill, I was civil enough to hand it to him. Off he trotted to get his prize. Just a tiny bit of recycling.
Going back to Angelo's post, I have stated my first degree was at the University of Edinburgh, unfortunately now many years ago. There was a definite 'beggar on main street' problem then. Some were polite, but quite a few were aggressive. As a financially-struggling young student, I had to work outside of University term, in order to pay for absolute basics, so I didn't have a penny to spare. So the beggars went on a-begging.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 01:08:29 PM
Yes.. Some here did quite some research... Faith has made several comments so obviously has made an effort... I'm not to bothered as long ad the comments stay within the bounds of the law
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2019, 01:16:55 PM
Has McDonalds stopped doing free refills on coffee?
Several years ago I was clearing up after my McDonalds repast. I was about to dispose of my rubbish in the bin when a man came up to me and 'begged' for my used coffee cup. He explained the free refill deal. As I was about to confine the cup to landfill, I was civil enough to hand it to him. Off he trotted to get his prize. Just a tiny bit of recycling.
Going back to Angelo's post, I have stated my first degree was at the University of Edinburgh, unfortunately now many years ago. There was a definite 'beggar on main street' problem then. Some were polite, but quite a few were aggressive. As a financially-struggling young student, I had to work outside of University term, in order to pay for absolute basics, so I didn't have a penny to spare. So the beggars went on a-begging.
Talking of McDonalds I've perfected the sausage and egg mccmuffin...saves me the drive
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 01:21:26 PM
Yes.. Some here did quite some research... Faith has made several comments so obviously has made an effort... I'm not to bothered as long ad the comments stay within the bounds of the law
You posted the details, I responded....don’t make a bigger deal of it than it actually was. In fact, as you know, I don’t believe the identity leaked is you....yes, I know, I’m sounding as if I care.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 01:23:54 PM
You posted the details, I responded....don’t make a bigger deal of it than it actually was. In fact, as you know, I don’t believe the identity leaked is you....yes, I know, I’m sounding as if I care.
I never posted any details... You do get a lot wrong... I was quite shocked one day at work to receive a call from Sadie..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 01:25:36 PM
It's the thing that puts a red line under taht automatically even as you type your reply.
It's not always correct. It correctly flags taht. It incorrectly flags McDonalds.
It also spellchecks in American English. So it does not flag color, but it does flag colour.
How many posts have you got Robittybob1? Your username has just been flagged by the spellchecker, but I'm fairly sure I've got it right. Whereas I would expect it to not flag Eleanor. Correct. And it hasn't got a chance with Saunokonoko. Also correct.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 01:26:52 PM
It's the thing that puts a red line under taht automatically even as you type your reply.
It's not always correct. It correctly flags taht. It incorrectly flags McDonalds.
It also spellchecks in American English. So it does not flag color, but it does flag colour.
How many posts have you got Robittybob1? Your username has just been flagged by the spellchecker, but I'm fairly sure I've got it right. Whereas I would expect it to not flag Eleanor. Correct. And it hasn't got a chance with Saunokonoko. Also correct.
most of my posts are from my phone which means much of the post isnt visible....i dont bother checking,,anyone with an ounce of sense can understand the post
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 06, 2019, 01:35:22 PM
It's the thing that puts a red line under taht automatically even as you type your reply.
It's not always correct. It correctly flags taht. It incorrectly flags McDonalds.
It also spellchecks in American English. So it does not flag color, but it does flag colour.
How many posts have you got Robittybob1? Your username has just been flagged by the spellchecker, but I'm fairly sure I've got it right. Whereas I would expect it to not flag Eleanor. Correct. And it hasn't got a chance with Saunokonoko. Also correct.
I don't think its a forum spool chucker,its likely on your browser of choice,I,m using firefox and its useless for splee checking.
Right,if using firebox you have to add on British English dictionary for it to spell check properly. This information was brought free of charge from barriers infotainments factoids..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 06, 2019, 01:43:09 PM
"We cannot speculate"? So why is he speculating it might be Ney then? If they are being briefed on who's being investigated wouldn't they know it wasn't him and say nothing? Wouldn't that be the correct thing for the family of any missing child to do, just shut up? But Mitchell adds, he wore camouflage gear, carried knives and jumped out of bushes to pounce on victims, but it might be someone else. Is that better?
@)(++(*
Treat us mugs..! In my opinion I'll add, to keep everyone happy.
How do you believe it works with Mitchell then? Do you think he just phones the papers up out of the blue to feed them his “utter garbage”, or do you think he is asked for his / the McCanns views of new information by the journos when it turns up? Of course he could have said no comment, but his remarks were fairly non comfirmatory either way so I really don’t understand your problem.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 06, 2019, 01:48:12 PM
most of my posts are from my phone which means much of the post isnt visible....i dont bother checking,,anyone with an ounce of sense can understand the post
Which make and model of phone do you use?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 01:50:35 PM
I don't think its a forum spool chucker,its likely on your browser of choice,I,m using firefox and its useless for splee checking.
Right,if using firebox you have to add on British English dictionary for it to spell check properly. This information was brought free of charge from barriers infotainments factoids..
OK *&(+(+
I don't use firebox, so I can't test your theory.
All I can confirm is it has red-flagged chucker, firefox, splee and infotainments. Obviously, it has not flagged barriers.
Once more *&(+(+
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 06, 2019, 01:58:18 PM
Oh but it really does. My phone is an iPhone SE, I use Safari, but rarely to post on this forum. Just thought you’d like to know. Anyone need my IP address while you’re at it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on May 06, 2019, 02:02:57 PM
Oh but it really does. My phone is an iPhone SE, I use Safari, but rarely to post on this forum. Just thought you’d like to know. Anyone need my IP address while you’re at it?
Don't know where you're going with this but the conversation was concerning spell checker's. SIL thought it was a forum one,its clearly not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2019, 02:08:43 PM
My Spell Checker works on this Forum. But I am on an Apple Laptop which has got it's own Spell Checker as far as I can see. But I do have to watch out for Predictive Text which has a nasty habit of deciding what I am going to say.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 02:10:12 PM
My Spell Checker works on this Forum. But I am on an Apple Laptop which has got it's own Spell Checker as far as I can see. But I do have to watch out for Predictive Text which has a nasty habit of deciding what I am going to say.
Yeah, my predictive text got me into trouble recently... 8(0(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2019, 02:11:35 PM
My Spell Checker works on this Forum. But I am on an Apple Laptop which has got it's own Spell Checker as far as I can see. But I do have to watch out for Predictive Text which has a nasty habit of deciding what I am going to say.
I'd forgotten when using fox,a dictionary needs to be added on,how else would it know what language its to correct the spelling on?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 06, 2019, 02:25:30 PM
But if he told us he couldn't speculate, so why was almost every single word that came out his mouth, speculation? Most of it false it now seems. I don't understand what makes you think I have a problem, I thought I'm having a debate about the utter garbage that a spokesman for the parents of a missing child has feed to the public through a recent news feed.
Espresso, a known McCann friendly network, claim that the new suspect is a German paedophile...the McCann’s spokesperson is ready when asked with a comment even though he claims he can’t comment on the ongoing investigation and even though, it was claimed, that he and the parents were specifically asked not to comment on the investigation.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to gauge what’s happening here.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 06, 2019, 02:40:59 PM
Oh but it really does. My phone is an iPhone SE, I use Safari, but rarely to post on this forum. Just thought you’d like to know. Anyone need my IP address while you’re at it?
Thanks, I was simply curious as to why 95% plus of Davel's mistakes are simply QWERTY keyboard errors.
I've had a look at the Huawei P10 virtual keyboard, and it is QWERTY, so puzzle over.
Or is it? Does a modern phone lack a spellchecker?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 02:51:44 PM
Espresso, a known McCann friendly network, claim that the new suspect is a German paedophile...the McCann’s spokesperson is ready when asked with a comment even though he claims he can’t comment on the ongoing investigation and even though, it was claimed, that he and the parents were specifically asked not to comment on the investigation.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to gauge what’s happening here.
I’m not a rocket scientist, not even half as clever as one, so why don’t you tell us what is happening here, in your view? Educate me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 02:52:11 PM
Thanks, I was simply curious as to why 95% plus of Davel's mistakes are simply QWERTY keyboard errors.
I've had a look at the Huawei P10 virtual keyboard, and it is QWERTY, so puzzle over.
Or is it? Does a modern phone lack a spellchecker?
when Im typing with my one manly fat finger Im looling at the keyboard not the tiny are of the screen where the text is displayed...most of it quickly scrolls up and disappears...I usually dont bother to check it...when youre making the number of posts i do there simply isnt time...and the more im criticised the less i want to correct it..on the phone keyboard the comma is next to the space bar...hence the excess commas
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 06, 2019, 03:04:03 PM
when Im typing with my one manly fat finger Im looling at the keyboard not the tiny are of the screen where the text is displayed...most of it quickly scrolls up and disappears...I usually dont bother to check it...when youre making the number of posts i do there simply isnt time...and the more im criticised the less i want to correct it
The fat finger remark has reminded me of another true event.
Once upon a time I made a cup of tea, for my beloved to enjoy in her bed. I asked my grandson to take it upstairs for her, because at that time he was the apple of her eye. Tea in bed plus favourite grandchild. Does it get any better?
He took the tea from me and made it to the bottom of the stairs. There he stopped.
I asked him what was wrong. He replied "I can't do it. I've got fat fingers."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 03:55:39 PM
He's treating the public like mugs. Was there anything he said in the article that wasn't speculation? Was any of it true? Is that not what you calling spinning on the parent's behalf unless the utter garbage (speculation) about Ney is true... and he is the new lead? AND they were informed about it by the police? He's their spokesman.
If Ney is the new lead, that's an apology I owe both you and Mitchell. If he's not, then Mitchell is clearly treating the public like mugs.
Once again, you aren’t making much sense. Do I have to point out again that Mitchell said it might not be him? Which statement by Mitchell is a lie in your view?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 04:51:59 PM
You've got more brains and you have to ask me that. Mitchell: “we cannot speculate."
If he spent almost the entire article feeding them speculation, then he must be lying about he couldn't speculate.
Get it now?
Edited to add, if the parents were really being briefed on any new developments by SY there should have been no need whatsoever for their spokesman to speculate. The parents aren't being briefed by SY on new developments imo if their spokesman feels the need to feed utter garbage (speculation) to the newspapers imo.
Can you think of any other reason why a spokesman who cannot speculate would choose to go speculating to the newspapers if his clients were really being briefed on new developments?
No I’m sorry I still don’t get what is making you so apparently het up. He was asked for a comment and he gave it, it tells us nothing more than the papers already new and advises caution. No lies, no misinformation, nothing to hang the man for, IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2019, 06:28:09 PM
Cite for he was ask for a comment? Thank you. Cite for me being 'het' up? Thank You.
From the Mail article that has so provoked your ire:
Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry said at the weekend when asked about Ney: 'He fits the profile - he is a known predatory paedophile and he's a foreigner.
'It is quite plausible police are looking at him again but it could be someone else.
'If he is the person of interest, a German force will have to get involved to interview him on their soil.'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 08:06:21 PM
Out of curiosity, why would they ask Clarence Mitchell for a comment.? It wasn't his child that went missing.. and the police won't be providing him with briefings on the investigation. How would he know anything?
All you have provided us with is confirmation of Mitchell's lies. That's speculation you have cited, the one thing he "cannot do." False speculation at that, it would appear.
LOL. Clarence Mitchell is the McCanns’ spokesman, I that’s probably why the media approached him for a quote don’t you?
Please list all Mitchell’s lies from the article. Speculation cannot be a lie.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on May 06, 2019, 08:23:01 PM
Out of curiosity, why would they ask Clarence Mitchell for a comment.? It wasn't his child that went missing.. and the police won't be providing him with briefings on the investigation. How would he know anything?
All you have provided us with is confirmation of Mitchell's lies. That's speculation you have cited, the one thing he "cannot do." False speculation at that, it would appear.
We won't be accusing Clarence Mitchell of telling lies either. This is all in your opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 08:32:08 PM
He said he couldn't speculate and in fact immediately proceeded to speculate for much of the article, let me put it that way.
Would you like cites for any of that?
You’ve obviously got a massive bee in your bonnet about this, IMO there are no lies and nothing worth getting so aerated about in what Clarence said, but it seems he does have this effect on some sceptics.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 08:33:22 PM
He said he couldn't speculate and in fact immediately proceeded to speculate for much of the article, let me put it that way.
Would you like cites for any of that?
yes ...Id like to raed it...waht I know from personal expereince ...sil found the same...is its newsappers that tell teh lies...I was quoted in the SUn...and what they claimed I said...was not what I said
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 08:35:00 PM
Mitchel: "It might be him and he fits the profile," Mitchell: "It is quite possible and plausible police are looking at him" Mitchell: "There is a degree of credibility it is Ney but we cannot speculate." Mitchell: "And if Ney is the person of interest a German force will then have to get involved"
He doesn't know if any of those are true, so he bloody well can speculate.
sorry,....you have to provide a link to the whole article...
when he says we cannot speculate he is referring to Ney....a particular point,,,..hes not saying we cannot speculate in general...so he isnt lying
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on May 06, 2019, 08:44:53 PM
Hang in there a littler longer. No you haven't. You provided a cite for Mitchell being asked for a comment
Now you are asked to support your claim that the "media approach Mitchell for a comment." Big difference. That's actually what I should have asked for the first time. Silly young me... Thank you.
Who do you think asked him for a comment? Theresa May?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 07, 2019, 03:10:36 AM
He does.seem to be quite a repellent person. Is.he still a "Sir"?
The rumours suggest you aren't the only one who finds him repellebt. I think he still has his knighthood. There have always been men who have used their power to harass women, but I feel their days are numbered. The first thing I was told in my first job aged 15 was never to go into the manager's office alone, and that I would be required to accompany my colleague if he called her in.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 12:41:47 AM
The rumours suggest you aren't the only one who finds him repellebt. I think he still has his knighthood. There have always been men who have used their power to harass women, but I feel their days are numbered. The first thing I was told in my first job aged 15 was never to go into the manager's office alone, and that I would be required to accompany my colleague if he called her in.
The good old days?
I probably caught it in the neck precisely the opposite way. I had worked for /with / above a number of ladies who were fully competent in their own right.
But then we got a PC order. We had to hire / promote more females, to balance the demographics.
I felt that was an insult to the women who had earned their position on pure ability.
And that was when I decided to bale-out.
That company was taken over shortly afterwards.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 09:38:59 AM
I probably caught it in the neck precisely the opposite way. I had worked for /with / above a number of ladies who were fully competent in their own right.
But then we got a PC order. We had to hire / promote more females, to balance the demographics.
I felt that was an insult to the women who had earned their position on pure ability.
And that was when I decided to bale-out.
That company was taken over shortly afterwards.
There was a scheme some years ago to get young people into work. The government helped by paying some of their wages. I suggested we take on someone to help me as my job was growing. The girl we got was almost illiterate. It wasn't a good experience for anyone. I questioned her 'handler' as to why they put her forward for a job she couldn't do. Apparently they were placed on what they wanted to do rather than on what they were able to do. That was a bad idea because discovering they were unable to do what they wanted to do wasn't good for their confidence and self worth. It also wasted my time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2019, 10:03:41 AM
I employed one of those. They had their hand in the till tout de suite. That cost me a few bob.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on June 01, 2019, 10:40:53 AM
There was a scheme some years ago to get young people into work. The government helped by paying some of their wages. I suggested we take on someone to help me as my job was growing. The girl we got was almost illiterate. It wasn't a good experience for anyone. I questioned her 'handler' as to why they put her forward for a job she couldn't do. Apparently they were placed on what they wanted to do rather than on what they were able to do. That was a bad idea because discovering they were unable to do what they wanted to do wasn't good for their confidence and self worth. It also wasted my time.
I can agree with you there.
That sounds like a fault in the system. Had she taken an assessment test, or not? Otherwise, anyone could claim that they were an astrophysicist, or an aspiring one, because they liked the stars at night.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 11:20:46 AM
That sounds like a fault in the system. Had she taken an assessment test, or not? Otherwise, anyone could claim that they were an astrophysicist, or an aspiring one, because they liked the stars at night.
Their academic records weren't taken into account and they weren't assessed. It was madness. I needed someone who could type invoices and she could neither type nor spell.
I see it as the beginning of the idea that young people could be anything they wanted to be. Obviously they can't unless they have the training and ability. It's not an employers place to teach spelling.
Spelling isn't a priority in schools it seems. My granddaughter told me her English teacher corrected her class's spelling and grammar before she submitted their assessments. My view was that they should have mastered spelling and grammar long before GCSE's.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2019, 11:30:22 AM
Their academic records weren't taken into account and they weren't assessed. It was madness. I needed someone who could type invoices and she could neither type nor spell.
I see it as the beginning of the idea that young people could be anything they wanted to be. Obviously they can't unless they have the training and ability. It's not an employers place to teach spelling.
Spelling isn't a priority in schools it seems. My granddaughter told me her English teacher corrected her class's spelling and grammar before she submitted their assessments. My view was that they should have mastered spelling and grammar long before GCSE's.
I thought that the idea was to get people involved with work who weren't very good at anything.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 11:42:10 AM
I thought that the idea was to get people involved with work who weren't very good at anything.
I'm all for that, but I wasn't told that I was getting someone who wouldn't be able to do what I needed them to do. There were jobs in the company which such people could have done had we known the truth. The poor girl ended up making tea and doing sandwich runs. I ended up stayng late to deal with my expanding workload as the company was growing very quickly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on June 01, 2019, 11:47:19 AM
Their academic records weren't taken into account and they weren't assessed. It was madness. I needed someone who could type invoices and she could neither type nor spell.
I see it as the beginning of the idea that young people could be anything they wanted to be. Obviously they can't unless they have the training and ability. It's not an employers place to teach spelling.
Spelling isn't a priority in schools it seems. My granddaughter told me her English teacher corrected her class's spelling and grammar before she submitted their assessments. My view was that they should have mastered spelling and grammar long before GCSE's.
Then the person wasn't a match to the job. That sounds like a fault in the system, as opposed to the girl's capabiliies.
She might have been great for a different job, but not the one that you needed at the time.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 12:05:14 PM
Their academic records weren't taken into account and they weren't assessed. It was madness. I needed someone who could type invoices and she could neither type nor spell.
I see it as the beginning of the idea that young people could be anything they wanted to be. Obviously they can't unless they have the training and ability. It's not an employers place to teach spelling.
Spelling isn't a priority in schools it seems. My granddaughter told me her English teacher corrected her class's spelling and grammar before she submitted their assessments. My view was that they should have mastered spelling and grammar long before GCSE's.
We are now firmly in the good old days.
When I was at secondary school it was forced to switch from selective, based on scholastic ability, to comprehensive, so everyone had identical access.
Our Latin teacher was distraught. How was she supposed to teach Latin, when a fair chunk of the new intake could not read or write English?
A couple of years on and one of those cheeky chappies burned down the school gym in a deliberate act of arson. Fortunately, the gym was separate from the other school buildings.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 01, 2019, 01:02:05 PM
When I was at secondary school it was forced to switch from selective, based on scholastic ability, to comprehensive, so everyone had identical access.
Our Latin teacher was distraught. How was she supposed to teach Latin, when a fair chunk of the new intake could not read or write English?
A couple of years on and one of those cheeky chappies burned down the school gym in a deliberate act of arson. Fortunately, the gym was separate from the other school buildings.
I don't think they were the good old days. Children being tested and selected at such a early age and because of this selection their whole future was decided. A friend of mine failed her eleven plus twice and was not able to attend High School. She was fortunate enough to be sent to a school where the teachers realised that as she matured she was capable of much more than the school could offer. She transferred at fifteen to a High School and gained enough Highers to gain entry into Glasgow school of Art. Her career was with one of the most prestigious jewellers where she designed jewellery . She was one of the lucky ones, many children's future was decided at eleven years of age.
Much, much better now. IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 01:27:01 PM
I don't think they were the good old days. Children being tested and selected at such a early age and because of this selection their whole future was decided. A friend of mine failed her eleven plus twice and was not able to attend High School. She was fortunate enough to be sent to a school where the teachers realised that as she matured she was capable of much more than the school could offer. She transferred at fifteen to a High School and gained enough Highers to gain entry into Glasgow school of Art. Her career was with one of the most prestigious jewellers where she designed jewellery . She was one of the lucky ones, many children's future was decided at eleven years of age.
Much, much better now. IMO
Strangely enough, I don't see that dragging down an entire generation of kids who would end up repaying their teaching through 40% tax rates to the level of the illiterate was a step forward. Funny old world, innit?
I have no idea about the quality of education in Scotland in current times, so I shall give that one a miss.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 02:12:04 PM
When I was at secondary school it was forced to switch from selective, based on scholastic ability, to comprehensive, so everyone had identical access.
Our Latin teacher was distraught. How was she supposed to teach Latin, when a fair chunk of the new intake could not read or write English?
A couple of years on and one of those cheeky chappies burned down the school gym in a deliberate act of arson. Fortunately, the gym was separate from the other school buildings.
I remember speaking to one mother whose son was learning French (without much success)M. Why, she asked, when he hasn't mastered English yet? Many children who fail in Primary school are practically guaranteed to fail in the next stage.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 02:14:10 PM
Strangely enough, I don't see that dragging down an entire generation of kids who would end up repaying their teaching through 40% tax rates to the level of the illiterate was a step forward. Funny old world, innit?
I have no idea about the quality of education in Scotland in current times, so I shall give that one a miss.
What an appallingly insulting and totally ignorant post aimed at those children who do not pass the eleven plus....many children from non selective state schools go on to study at the the top universities
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 02:17:04 PM
I remember speaking to one mother whose son was learning French (without much success)M. Why, she asked, when he hasn't mastered English yet? Many children who fail in Primary school are practically guaranteed to fail in the next stage.
if the child hadnt mastered english it was more than likely down to parental input...If a child is labelled a failure at 10...which you seem to condone.....then perhaps tahts the reason they are more likely to fail...children need encouragement...not labels...and children develop at different rates
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 01, 2019, 02:42:20 PM
if the child hadnt mastered english it was more than likely down to parental input...If a child is labelled a failure at 10...which you seem to condone.....then perhaps tahts the reason they are more likely to fail...children need encouragement...not labels...and children develop at different rates
There was a dreadful cruelty about the selection process of examining children at such an early age and labelling them as failures.
I know twin sisters who attended the same Primary School. One passed the Qualifying Exam, one failed ! They then had to attend different schools. This had such a huge effect on both of them, by especially the one who failed. I know some children overcame this failure and went on to have successful lives and good incomes but it is not a system that I would ever wish to see return.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2019, 02:56:54 PM
A bit too personal for me. I was labelled one thing and then went on to prove another, but I never quite recovered from the label. I have no qualifications, and passing The Royal Navy Air Mechanics Board never cut the mustard in civy street.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 03:03:08 PM
What an appallingly insulting and totally ignorant post aimed at those children who do not pass the eleven plus....many children from non selective state schools go on to study at the the top universities
What an appallingly insulting and totally ignorant post aimed at both those children who passed an 11+ and those who did not.
Those who passed an 11+ plus deserved one type of teaching and support, whilst those who did not deserved a totally different type of teaching and support.
You have managed to bring one set down to LCD, whilst putting the other set through the grinder.
That's not bizarre. The correct description is inhumane. What an awful post.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2019, 03:06:18 PM
What an appallingly insulting and totally ignorant post aimed at both those children who passed an 11+ and those who did not.
Those who passed an 11+ plus deserved one type of teaching and support, whilst those who did not deserved a totally different type of teaching and support.
You have managed to bring one set down to LCD, whilst putting the other set through the grinder.
That's not bizarre. The correct description is inhumane. What an awful post.
What? You have totally misunderstood Davel's comment.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 03:08:33 PM
What an appallingly insulting and totally ignorant post aimed at both those children who passed an 11+ and those who did not.
Those who passed an 11+ plus deserved one type of teaching and support, whilst those who did not deserved a totally different type of teaching and support.
You have managed to bring one set down to LCD, whilst putting the other set through the grinder.
That's not bizarre. The correct description is inhumane. What an awful post.
what ridiculously uninformed post......its almost too ridiculous for words...so how many of those pupils you claim have been dragged down have gone on to university...gerry mccanns one...
just to add....i sailed through the eleven plus.....but i can still see the unfairness off it....and the damage it does
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 03:09:55 PM
if the child hadnt mastered english it was more than likely down to parental input...If a child is labelled a failure at 10...which you seem to condone.....then perhaps tahts the reason they are more likely to fail...children need encouragement...not labels...and children develop at different rates
So you blame the parents for the failure of that boy's primary school? I asked the mother if she had raised the problem during his primary education and she said she had, but was ignored. I can relate to that as one of my children struggled. I found empty books at parent's evening and raised it with her teacher, who wasn't concerned. I went to the headmaster and insisted that my daughter was given extra help. He managed to organise it and my daughter caught up, but not all parents are confident enough to challenge the teachers as I did.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 03:12:33 PM
So you blame the parents for the failure of that boy's primary school? I asked the mother if she had raised the problem during his primary education and she said she had, but was ignored. I can relate to that as one of my children struggled. I found empty books at parent's evening and raised it with her teacher, who wasn't concerned. I went to the headmaster and insisted that my daughter was given extra help. He managed to organise it and my daughter caught up, but not all parents are confident enough to challenge the teachers as I did.
your whole post is anectdotal......Didnt you realise your child struggled when you read at home with them...did you raed at home
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 03:22:10 PM
So you blame the parents for the failure of that boy's primary school? I asked the mother if she had raised the problem during his primary education and she said she had, but was ignored. I can relate to that as one of my children struggled. I found empty books at parent's evening and raised it with her teacher, who wasn't concerned. I went to the headmaster and insisted that my daughter was given extra help. He managed to organise it and my daughter caught up, but not all parents are confident enough to challenge the teachers as I did.
May I ask what the subject was that was an issue?
We've got an 8 year-old grandchild, and I can help him out with many subjects. My difficulty is that his lessons and books are in Portuguese, and that is not my strong point.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 03:23:04 PM
What an appallingly insulting and totally ignorant post aimed at both those children who passed an 11+ and those who did not.
Those who passed an 11+ plus deserved one type of teaching and support, whilst those who did not deserved a totally different type of teaching and support.
You have managed to bring one set down to LCD, whilst putting the other set through the grinder.
That's not bizarre. The correct description is inhumane. What an awful post.
so how will your grandchildren in portugal cope....will they be dragged down with the illiterate
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 03:24:35 PM
We've got an 8 year-old grandchild, and I can help him out with many subjects. My difficulty is that his lessons and books are in Portuguese, and that is not my strong point.
will you be sending him to a selective school in portugal...if you live in portugal might be worth learning the language
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 03:26:37 PM
i was referring to your post ...I understand posts can be criticised....your post wa sinsulting to children who fail to pass the eleven plus...who you refer to as illiterate...that shows a complete lack...or ignorance...of the truth
Your post was insulting to both those who pass and those who don't.
And that was why I found your post to be highly insulting.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 03:28:24 PM
Your post was insulting to both those who pass and those who don't.
And that was why I found your post to be highly insulting.
It certainly wasnt insulting to any children...as Eleanor said...you obviously didnt understand it....in fact you have shown you ahve totally misunderstood it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 03:33:26 PM
There was a dreadful cruelty about the selection process of examining children at such an early age and labelling them as failures.
I know twin sisters who attended the same Primary School. One passed the Qualifying Exam, one failed ! They then had to attend different schools. This had such a huge effect on both of them, by especially the one who failed. I know some children overcame this failure and went on to have successful lives and good incomes but it is not a system that I would ever wish to see return.
I was listening to Terry Waite on the radio last night. He grew up in a small village in Cheshire and he failed his 11 plus, as did all his classmates. In fact that particular school, I think he said, had only one child who passed it in about ten years. That child was a teacher's child who was coached.
My primary school, on the other hand, managed three passes in my year; me and two others. He pointed out that there was a shortage of good tIeachers after WW2 due to the horrendous death toll. I know there was a scheme to get ex-service men into teaching, and there were some in my Grammar school who, with hindsight, had serious problems.
I would describe my English teacher as a complete and utter nutter, to be honest. We could spend whole lessons watching him sweep around the room with his gown flying behind him as he performed Shakespeare without any input from us whatsoever. Perhaps he was a frustrated actor.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 03:36:05 PM
As you are not au fait with the Portuguese educational system, I trust you will not be offended if I ignore your opinion.
I am au fait with it.... If there no selection then it's, a comprehensive system..same as the UK non selective.. With the same level of literacy amongst students as the uk
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2019, 03:43:57 PM
So you blame the parents for the failure of that boy's primary school? I asked the mother if she had raised the problem during his primary education and she said she had, but was ignored. I can relate to that as one of my children struggled. I found empty books at parent's evening and raised it with her teacher, who wasn't concerned. I went to the headmaster and insisted that my daughter was given extra help. He managed to organise it and my daughter caught up, but not all parents are confident enough to challenge the teachers as I did.
I gave up with State Schools and then beggared myself to send mine all to Public School.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 03:46:08 PM
your whole post is anectdotal......Didnt you realise your child struggled when you read at home with them...did you raed at home
If you want me to pontificate about education systems I can, for hours. Of course I noticed, my child was struggling. I read to and with all my children both before and during their schooling. That paeticular one was different. Something she seemed to grasp one day had gone the next day. It was my intention to discuss it at her parent's evening. Visiting at other times wasn't encouraged in those days.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 03:51:02 PM
I am au fait with it.... If there no selection then it's, a comprehensive system..same as the UK non selective.. With the same level of literacy amongst students as the uk
Errr, no.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 03:53:57 PM
We've got an 8 year-old grandchild, and I can help him out with many subjects. My difficulty is that his lessons and books are in Portuguese, and that is not my strong point.
I knew her reading was a problem because as a voracious reader myself I started them on reading at an early age. At parent's evening I discovered to my horror that she was learning nothing at all. There was nothing to see, no work at all in any subject.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 03:56:03 PM
I was listening to Terry Waite on the radio last night. He grew up in a small village in Cheshire and he failed his 11 plus, as did all his classmates. In fact that particular school, I think he said, had only one child who passed it in about ten years. That child was a teacher's child who was coached.
My primary school, on the other hand, managed three passes in my year; me and two others. He pointed out that there was a shortage of good tIeachers after WW2 due to the horrendous death toll. I know there was a scheme to get ex-service men into teaching, and there were some in my Grammar school who, with hindsight, had serious problems.
I would describe my English teacher as a complete and utter nutter, to be honest. We could spend whole lessons watching him sweep around the room with his gown flying behind him as he performed Shakespeare without any input from us whatsoever. Perhaps he was a frustrated actor.
I had a few teachers at High school who terrified me. After the war there was interest a shortage of teachers and many who did not have the correct qualifications were allowed to teach. Here they were called Dilutee teachers. Not held in high esteem by those who had spent three years at University and one at teacher training college.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 01, 2019, 04:14:23 PM
I had a few teachers at High school who terrified me. After the war there was interest a shortage of teachers and many who did not have the correct qualifications were allowed to teach. Here they were called Dilutee teachers. Not held in high esteem by those who had spent three years at University and one at teacher training college.
Many of these that filled the gaps were people who had had to go to war.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 04:15:05 PM
Literacy, of course, meaning the ability to read and write. That covers the whole spectrum from those who can just about read and write to those who can produce and understand complex texts using correct spelling and punctuation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 04:16:49 PM
Literacy, of course, meaning the ability to read and write. That covers the whole spectrum from those who can just about read and write to those who can produce and understand complex texts using correct spelling and punctuation.
ive provided a cite for my claim..sil hasnt...and it might be better to read the cite provided before making claims.
Test
Each student takes a two-hour handwritten test. Part of the test is multiple-choice and part involves fuller answers. There are six and a half hours of assessment material, but each student is not tested on all the parts. Following the cognitive test, participating students spend nearly one more hour answering a questionnaire on their background including learning habits, motivation, and family. School directors fill in a questionnaire describing school demographics, funding, etc. In 2012 the participants were, for the first time in the history of large-scale testing and assessments, offered a new type of problem, i.e. interactive (complex) problems requiring exploration of a novel virtual device
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 04:18:27 PM
Many of these that filled the gaps were people who had had to go to war.
Some of whom would these days be seen as likely to be suffering from PTSD. I remember a man in our village who had been a prisoner of the Japanese. He never worked again.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 04:27:01 PM
I had a few teachers at High school who terrified me. After the war there was interest a shortage of teachers and many who did not have the correct qualifications were allowed to teach. Here they were called Dilutee teachers. Not held in high esteem by those who had spent three years at University and one at teacher training college.
Our History teacher, a woman, only had to look at someone. She was very powerful, but a fabulous teacher too.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) is a worldwide study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in member and non-member nations intended to evaluate educational systems by measuring 15-year-old school pupils' scholastic performance on mathematics, science, and reading.[1] It was first performed in 2000 and then repeated every three years. Its aim is to provide comparable data with a view to enabling countries to improve their education policies and outcomes. It measures problem solving and cognition. [2]
explain why its self evident...you wont be able to ...you have simply dug yourself a very deep hole
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 01, 2019, 04:33:07 PM
Some of whom would these days be seen as likely to be suffering from PTSD. I remember a man in our village who had been a prisoner of the Japanese. He never worked again.
Probably received.no help or counseling. I don't.know.How anyone.could resume a normal life.after the.horrors they saw and ensured.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 04:42:29 PM
imo...you are looking very silly...could you explain why its meaningless....
The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) is a worldwide study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in member and non-member nations intended to evaluate educational systems by measuring 15-year-old school pupils' scholastic performance on mathematics, science, and reading.[1] It was first performed in 2000 and then repeated every three years. Its aim is to provide comparable data with a view to enabling countries to improve their education policies and outcomes. It measures problem solving and cognition. [2]
explain why its self evident...you wont be able to ...you have simply dug yourself a very deep hole
I don't think they're testing literacy.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 04:47:09 PM
i do..but i realise sil needs help to get out of the hole
literacy /ˈlɪt(ə)rəsi/ Learn to pronounce noun the ability to read and write. "tests of literacy and numeracy" synonyms: ability to read and write, reading/writing ability, reading/writing proficiency
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 04:59:21 PM
Our history teachers.were all excellent,.The geography teachers were so boring . Perhaps it was the subject and not the teachers!
Snap! My favourite subjects were Englidh Lit., French and History. Completely beyond my ken were Chemistry, Physics and Maths. My Maths teacher amused the class once when returning homework when he informed me that my 3/10 marks were for writing my name, form and the date on my paper. Ironically I earned ny living later by working in accountng; once calculators, accounting software and spreadsheets had been invented.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 01, 2019, 05:01:02 PM
Snap! My favourite subjects were Englidh Lit., French and History. Completely beyond my ken were Chemistry, Physics and Maths. My Maths teacher amused the class once when returning homework when he informed me that my 3/10 marks were for writing my name, form and the date on my paper. Ironically I earned ny living later by working in accountng; once calculators, accounting software and spreadsheets had been invented.
I never use calculators. I don't trust them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 05:04:17 PM
i do..but i realise sil needs help to get out of the hole
literacy /ˈlɪt(ə)rəsi/ Learn to pronounce noun the ability to read and write. "tests of literacy and numeracy" synonyms: ability to read and write, reading/writing ability, reading/writing proficiency
Your cite was about more than literacy.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 05:07:37 PM
imo...you are looking very silly...could you explain why its meaningless....
The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) is a worldwide study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in member and non-member nations intended to evaluate educational systems by measuring 15-year-old school pupils' scholastic performance on mathematics, science, and reading.[1] It was first performed in 2000 and then repeated every three years. Its aim is to provide comparable data with a view to enabling countries to improve their education policies and outcomes. It measures problem solving and cognition. [2]
explain why its self evident...you wont be able to ...you have simply dug yourself a very deep hole
Read the article.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 01, 2019, 05:14:36 PM
Of course it can be measured in different ways... Pisa chose one and applied that to all the countries in the study... To describe the study as meaningless which you appear to support is risible... Carry on
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 05:24:15 PM
It's a red flag that your cite does not support your claim.
Perhaps members and guests have the stamina to wade through your alleged cite.
Or perhaps not.
you continue to state your opinion as fact
If you state my cite does not support my claim as a fact...you need to supply some supporting argument..you cannot...which leads me to think your claim is fraudulent
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 01, 2019, 05:46:46 PM
If you state my cite does not support my claim as a fact...you need to supply some supporting argument..you cannot...which leads me to think your claim is fraudulent
Don't worry. Your opinion matters to me just as much as you claim it does. Not a jot.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 05:53:51 PM
Don't worry. Your opinion matters to me just as much as you claim it does. Not a jot.
and do you think yours matters to me...as ive stated...I dont value anyones opinion unless its based on evidence...that includes everyone....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 01, 2019, 06:52:57 PM
What's goading about a song title ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 07:09:45 PM
what is the point in providing a cite when poster such a sil can simply say its meaningless...when it obviously isnt....nd provide nothing to support that claim...could a mod explain...it makes a mockery of the rules
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 01, 2019, 07:15:23 PM
sil is just annoyed because he claimed the UK education system had taken students down to the LCD and I provided a cite which showed students in the UK are at the same level as portugal in maths and reading and ahead in science...so are the portuguese dumbed down too
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 01, 2019, 08:14:29 PM
There was a message about that. More emphasis on editing.
Other Mods - do you have to report a post before editing it, or just cut corners and edit it?
I report everything. Because if the modified post is not reported the editors will be unable to see the original wording used if arbitration is requested. There has been discussion very recently http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=8404.0 where it would be beneficial to discuss moderation.
Jassi hasn't answered my question.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 01, 2019, 10:45:56 PM
Can we try and keep it civil please.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on June 01, 2019, 10:50:30 PM
So you blame the parents for the failure of that boy's primary school? I asked the mother if she had raised the problem during his primary education and she said she had, but was ignored. I can relate to that as one of my children struggled. I found empty books at parent's evening and raised it with her teacher, who wasn't concerned. I went to the headmaster and insisted that my daughter was given extra help. He managed to organise it and my daughter caught up, but not all parents are confident enough to challenge the teachers as I did.
Well done, Gunit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 01, 2019, 11:38:02 PM
what is the point in providing a cite when poster such a sil can simply say its meaningless...when it obviously isnt....nd provide nothing to support that claim...could a mod explain...it makes a mockery of the rules
Of it’s good enough for SIL it’s good enough for us. Next time s9meone provides a cite for something you request just tell them it’s rubbish and means nothing, job done.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on June 01, 2019, 11:48:37 PM
And meanwhile back in the adult world......!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 01, 2019, 11:52:52 PM
Of it’s good enough for SIL it’s good enough for us. Next time s9meone provides a cite for something you request just tell them it’s rubbish and means nothing, job done.
Well if is assessed by a moderator maybe that response will not be acceptable either.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 02, 2019, 12:03:17 AM
what is the point in providing a cite when poster such a sil can simply say its meaningless...when it obviously isnt....nd provide nothing to support that claim...could a mod explain...it makes a mockery of the rules
I think a cite is only valid if it directs the reader to a specific page and point. Like it would not be acceptable to say read the PJ files at http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm. That is not specific enough to satisfy a cite request.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 02, 2019, 07:19:19 AM
I think a cite is only valid if it directs the reader to a specific page and point. Like it would not be acceptable to say read the PJ files at http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm. That is not specific enough to satisfy a cite request.
....it wasnt My cite linked to a fairly short report...a single page... Did you check my cite... I'm fairly sure you didn't.... So why did you allow sil to state as, a, fact it was, meaningless ...it wasn't imo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 09:00:22 AM
....it wasnt My cite linked to a fairly short report.... Did you check my cite... I'm fairly sure you didn't. So why did you allow sil to state as, a, fact it was, meaningless ...it wasn't imo.
What was the point you were making with your cite again? I've looked back and I'm not sure what you claim it demonstrates.
I know it measures the scholastiic performance of 15 year olds in maths, science and reading. The results are used to compare the educational systems of the countries taking part.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 09:07:31 AM
What was the point you were making with your cite again? I've looked back and I'm not sure what you claim it demonstrates.
I know it measures the scholastiic performance of 15 year olds in maths, science and reading. The results are used to compare the educational systems of the countries taking part.
My point was in relation to posts from sil... I'm not prepared to go through it all again...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 09:13:01 AM
What was the point you were making with your cite again? I've looked back and I'm not sure what you claim it demonstrates.
I know it measures the scholastiic performance of 15 year olds in maths, science and reading. The results are used to compare the educational systems of the countries taking part.
Sil claimed that the abolition of selection had reduced brighter students to the illiterate level of those who didn't pass the eleven plus... That's an appalling insult to millions of children... My cite showed that abilities had not been dumbed down.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 09:19:11 AM
Did your child pass the eleven plus... Do you mind sil referring to them as illiterate.. My older children did... Bit I resent insults against less able children.. Particularly when they are based on total ignorance
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2019, 10:20:27 AM
Sil claimed that the abolition of selection had reduced brighter students to the illiterate level of those who didn't pass the eleven plus... That's an appalling insult to millions of children... My cite showed that abilities had not been dumbed down
As I understood it SIL was speaking of mixed ability classes. Obviously the teacher has to teach in such a way that the less able can progress. This penalises the more able by slowing them down.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 10:24:53 AM
As I understood it SIL was speaking of mixed ability classes. Obviously the teacher has to teach in such a way that the less able can progress. This penalises the more able by slowing them down.
Sil never mentioned mixed ability classes so unless you have a cite you are making things up He specifically talked of the abolition of entry based on selection... Schools have streaming to cater for different abilities
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2019, 10:31:36 AM
Did your child pass the eleven plus... Do you mind sil referring to them as illiterate.. My older children did... Bit I resent insults against less able children.. Particularly when they are based on total ignorance
Are you sure SIL said anyone who failed the 11 plus was illiterate? Illiterate means unable to read and write and many who failed the 11 plus could read and write.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 10:32:44 AM
Are you sure SIL said anyone who failed the 11 plus was illiterate? Illiterate means unable to read and write and many who failed the 11 plus could read and write.
Have a read back at sils posts
Strangely enough, I don't see that dragging down an entire generation of kids who would end up repaying their teaching through 40% tax rates to the level of the illiterate was a step forward. Funny old world, innit?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 10:33:13 AM
Sil never mentioned mixed ability classes so unless you have a cite you are making things up He specifically talked of the abolition of entry based on selection... Schools have streaming to cater for different abilities
I think you'll find I spoke about my Latin teacher trying to teach Latin to kids who could not read or write English.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 10:37:54 AM
I think you'll find I spoke about my Latin teacher trying to teach Latin to kids who could not read or write English.
your post..
Strangely enough, I don't see that dragging down an entire generation of kids who would end up repaying their teaching through 40% tax rates to the level of the illiterate was a step forward. Funny old world, innit?
its a little difficult debating with posters who cannot remember their own posts
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 10:42:34 AM
I think you'll find I spoke about my Latin teacher trying to teach Latin to kids who could not read or write English.
How was she supposed to teach Latin, when a fair chunk of the new intake could not read or write English?
so you claim a fair chunk of those who failed the 11 plus could not read or write english...more rubbish
at my school..latin was only taught to the top stream...even though teh school was s elective...so I doubt your lati teacher would ahve been expected to teach latin to all...as you admitted...you couldnt hack it
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2019, 10:47:32 AM
Strangely enough, I don't see that dragging down an entire generation of kids who would end up repaying their teaching through 40% tax rates to the level of the illiterate was a step forward. Funny old world, innit?
its a little difficult debating with posters who cannot remember their own posts
I have to question that post. I can't believe that illiterate students were taught in the same classes as the brightest students in any comprehensive school. The comprehensive my children attended had streaming.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 10:49:24 AM
I have to question that post. I can't believe that illiterate students were taught in the same classes as the brightest students in any comprehensive school. The comprehensive my children attended had streaming.
Thats why I questioned it and posted taht sils claims were based on ignorance....and provided a cite to show taht the lack of selection had not dumb down our education system
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2019, 11:07:38 AM
Being literate means being able to read and write. People who were illiterate used to sign with an X where their signature should be. We have very few who are in that category any more. What we have are levels of literacy from minimal to highly accomplished.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 11:09:48 AM
How was she supposed to teach Latin, when a fair chunk of the new intake could not read or write English?
so you claim a fair chunk of those who failed the 11 plus could not read or write english...more rubbish
at my school..latin was only taught to the top stream...even though teh school was s elective...so I doubt your lati teacher would ahve been expected to teach latin to all...as you admitted...you couldnt hack it
I wrote about the school going comprehensive. That, unless I'm mistaken, does not equate to 'failure at 11+ level".
I needed to get 2 languages to get accepted at university, even though I was not going to study languages. I got 2. One was Latin. The other was French. I disliked them both so I stopped studying them as soon as I had passed my exams.
I wish I hadn't, because both are extremely valuable.
Shortly before the 10th anniversary, I was on a Luz Tour with a team from AFP, a large media organisation which originated in France. Two of the team members started conversing in French, possibly to keep their conversation private. I informed them that though my French is rusty after years of non-use, I could remember enough to understand what they were saying.
You don't get into Edinburgh University unless you can 'hack it'. They are very selective. &^^&*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 11:28:23 AM
I wrote about the school going comprehensive. That, unless I'm mistaken, does not equate to 'failure at 11+ level".
I needed to get 2 languages to get accepted at university, even though I was not going to study languages. I got 2. One was Latin. The other was French. I disliked them both so I stopped studying them as soon as I had passed my exams.
I wish I hadn't, because both are extremely valuable.
Shortly before the 10th anniversary, I was on a Luz Tour with a team from AFP, a large media organisation which originated in France. Two of the team members started conversing in French, possibly to keep their conversation private. I informed them that though my French is rusty after years of non-use, I could remember enough to understand what they were saying.
You don't get into Edinburgh University unless you can 'hack it'. They are very selective. &^^&*
My offer was three grade Es for a course that now requires three As.... Hardly a, sign of education dumbing down.. You posted re the change from your school being selective then changing to non selective... That's the 11 plus...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 11:35:00 AM
I have to question that post. I can't believe that illiterate students were taught in the same classes as the brightest students in any comprehensive school. The comprehensive my children attended had streaming.
When did they stream? Pre-entry? Day 1? You have to be able to test or judge a child's ability before you can stream.
There was only one Latin class (per year) in my school, so by definition they had to be lumped together until such times as those who were not going to make the cut could be counselled out to try something else.
Latin was not mandatory. It was an elective option. It is very similar your story which kicked this whole shebang off. Someone who fancied doing a bit of book-keeping without being able to perform the basics.
As an aside, we had one girl in our year who elected to do Ancient Greek. The school was able to accommodate her choice because her father was the school teacher for Ancient Greek. As far as I know, she passed her exam. I do know that she entered Edinburgh University the year that I did, but I lost touch with her after that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 11:37:29 AM
When did they stream? Pre-entry? Day 1? You have to be able to test or judge a child's ability before you can stream.
There was only one Latin class (per year) in my school, so by definition they had to be lumped together until such times as those who were not going to make the cut could be counselled out to try something else.
Latin was not mandatory. It was an elective option. It is very similar your story which kicked this whole shebang off. Someone who fancied doing a bit of book-keeping without being able to perform the basics.
As an aside, we had one girl in our year who elected to do Ancient Greek. The school was able to accommodate her choice because her father was the school teacher for Ancient Greek. As far as I know, she passed her exam. I do know that she entered Edinburgh University the year that I did, but I lost touch with her after that.
You say there was only one Latin class.... So everyone was in it... How big was the class...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2019, 11:41:09 AM
My offer was three grade Es for a course that now requires three As.... Hardly a, sign of education dumbing down.. You posted re the change from your school being selective then changing to non selective... That's the 11 plus... You can't wriggle out if your, appalling statements
Do all students get the same offers these days? Offers used to be made on an individual basis. One student could get an unconditional offer and another one could be asked to get 3 A's for the same course.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 11:46:22 AM
Do all students get the same offers these days? Offers used to be made on an individual basis. One student could get an unconditional offer and another one could be asked to get 3 A's for the same course.
There are basic guidelines... You don't apply for medicine unless you expect 3As... In my day it, was 3 Cs.. Education has not been dumbed down by non selection
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 02, 2019, 11:48:11 AM
When did they stream? Pre-entry? Day 1? You have to be able to test or judge a child's ability before you can stream.
There was only one Latin class (per year) in my school, so by definition they had to be lumped together until such times as those who were not going to make the cut could be counselled out to try something else.
Latin was not mandatory. It was an elective option. It is very similar your story which kicked this whole shebang off. Someone who fancied doing a bit of book-keeping without being able to perform the basics.
As an aside, we had one girl in our year who elected to do Ancient Greek. The school was able to accommodate her choice because her father was the school teacher for Ancient Greek. As far as I know, she passed her exam. I do know that she entered Edinburgh University the year that I did, but I lost touch with her after that.
Before any child begins Comprehensive they have all been taught together at Primary school. There they will be taught in groups of children with the same academic ability. Streaming exists in Primary schools. Sometimes it was possible to have three different groups of children and perhaps one or two individual children who required extra learning support. And perhaps one or two very academic children who required extra input! The High schools receive very detailed reports about each child and there will be comunication between both schools and teachers. Primary children also spend several days at High School while still in Primary seven. The High schools will be very aware from day one of each child's individual ablity. There is no "dumbing down" for the more academic child but there is every possibility that those who would have been cast aside by the old system have every opportunity to progress.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 02, 2019, 11:53:53 AM
Before any child begins Comprehensive they have all been taught together at Primary school. There they will be taught in groups of children with the same academic ability. Streaming exists in Primary schools. Sometimes it was possible to have three different groups of children and perhaps one or two individual children who required extra learning support. And perhaps one or two very academic children who required extra input! The High schools receive very detailed reports about each child and there will be comunication between both schools and teachers. Primary children also spend several days at High School while still in Primary seven. The High schools will be very aware from day one of each child's individual ablity. There is no "dumbing down" for the more academic child but there is every possibility that those who would have been cast aside by the old system have every opportunity to progress.
I have no idea what the current primary system is like, so i'm not going to debate that.
My own experience at primary school was no streaming. Classes simply weren't big enough to support such a notion.
I remember one occasion when the teacher hoiked myself and one other boy up to the front of the class to have a long-division race on the blackboard.
My parents were working class with little formal education. We were never well-off, but we never went short.
My opponent came from a very large family that could only be described as dirt poor. He would often turn up dressed like a Charles Dickens ragamuffin. I don't know whether he got enough to eat.
He struggled academically, quite possibly due to his adverse family situation.
The long-division race began. I won, but only by a nose.
The teacher must have twigged that though this boy struggled with other areas of his schooling, he had a natural affinity for long division, of all things. She had given him his chance to shine.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 12:23:50 PM
There are basic guidelines... You don't apply for medicine unless you expect 3As... In my day it, was 3 Cs.. Education has not been dumbed down by non selection
On one reading of that 3 A's today could be seen as equal to 3 C's in your time. In other words A Levels are not as valuable as they used to be.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 12:34:57 PM
Davel is proposing that everyone in my year was forced to take Latin, when I have repeatedly made clear this was not the case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 12:38:20 PM
Cite for the word forced.... You need to read my posts precisely... Not add your own words and interpretations to them... And then imagine that's what I have said..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 12:59:36 PM
When I was at secondary school it was forced to switch from selective, based on scholastic ability, to comprehensive, so everyone had identical access.
Our Latin teacher was distraught. How was she supposed to teach Latin, when a fair chunk of the new intake could not read or write English?
A couple of years on and one of those cheeky chappies burned down the school gym in a deliberate act of arson. Fortunately, the gym was separate from the other school buildings.
Did your Latin teacher not realise Latin was elective and he would not have to teach it to everyone
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 02, 2019, 01:05:28 PM
In my school (posh boarding school) you were either bright and did Latin or dim and did DS. I had to do Latin but would have gained so many more life skills from DS, so I feel I was somewhat disadvantaged by my high intelligence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 02, 2019, 01:08:13 PM
In my school (posh boarding school) you were either bright and did Latin or dim and did DS. I had to do Latin but would have gained so many more life skills from DS, so I feel I was somewhat disadvantaged by my high intelligence.
I'm dim. What's DS. Domestic Science?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 02, 2019, 01:16:00 PM
Yes. Cooking and that. The girls who did DS were always very popular on a Friday afternoon as they usually had made something quite tasty that they were willing to share, and which always knocked spots off school teas which were inadequate and vile.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 02, 2019, 01:17:41 PM
I have no idea what the current primary system is like, so i'm not going to debate that.
My own experience at primary school was no streaming. Classes simply weren't big enough to support such a notion.
I remember one occasion when the teacher hoiked myself and one other boy up to the front of the class to have a long-division race on the blackboard.
My parents were working class with little formal education. We were never well-off, but we never went short.
My opponent came from a very large family that could only be described as dirt poor. He would often turn up dressed like a Charles Dickens ragamuffin. I don't know whether he got enough to eat.
He struggled academically, quite possibly due to his adverse family situation.
The long-division race began. I won, but only by a nose.
The teacher must have twigged that though this boy struggled with other areas of his schooling, he had a natural affinity for long division, of all things. She had given him his chance to shine.
I have a very good idea of the Primary Education System from the 1950's to the present and there is no doubt in my mind that it is vastly superior now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 02, 2019, 01:19:09 PM
I have a very good idea of the Primary Education System from the 1950's to the present and there is no doubt in my mind that it is vastly superior now.
Undoubtedly true, and teachers are no longer allowed to beat kids with sticks either which is a marked improvement.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 01:19:55 PM
Yes. Cooking and that. The girls who did DS were always very popular on a Friday afternoon as they usually had made something quite tasty that they were willing to share, and which always knocked spots off school teas which were inadequate and vile.
I never did Domestic Science. We had to choose in Primary seven whether we studied Latin, or Commercial subjects or Domestic Science. Whichever we chose had nothing to do with ability.
Passing the Qualifying Exam and the Intelligence Tests decided whether you would go to High School or Junior Secondary. Once at High School everyone did the same subjects except for the one you had chosen. We three siblings all managed to pass but my brother did Latin, I did Commercial subjects and my sister did Domestic Science.
Now Domestic Science leads to a variety of attainable qualifications.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 02, 2019, 01:31:36 PM
Our Latin teacher was a she, though that is not important.
She was obliged to attempt to teach Latin to everyone who elected to take it.
That's the whole point of her original comment.
You appear to enjoy going round in circles.
I think your memory may be letting you down...so you are saying if a student was illiterate and opted to study latin...they would be accepted in the class,,,I simply dont beleive that
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 02, 2019, 01:42:21 PM
I have a very good idea of the Primary Education System from the 1950's to the present and there is no doubt in my mind that it is vastly superior now.
As I never went into the teaching profession, I am not in a position to debate that point.
My personal experience of the system is that it has deteriorated. However, as that is limited to a few individuals, again there is no point in debating the issue.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 02:52:35 PM
My offer was three grade Es for a course that now requires three As.... Hardly a, sign of education dumbing down.. You posted re the change from your school being selective then changing to non selective... That's the 11 plus... You can't wriggle out if your, appalling statements
That is actually a sign of education dumbing down.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 02:55:35 PM
Mind you, as you repeatedly claim that your opinion is valueless, maybe not?
when did your school cease selection..the 11 plus was going strong all through the sixties and early seventies as I understand...you are not in your fifties
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 02:56:17 PM
in your opinion...how would you prove your statement of fact
Grades measure knowledge.
Higher level courses require a certain level of knowledge which is fairly constant.
If Cs were required at a certain period and As are required now, then it follows that a C in the past is equivalent to an A now. It is as easy to get an A now as a C then.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2019, 03:03:15 PM
I have a very good idea of the Primary Education System from the 1950's to the present and there is no doubt in my mind that it is vastly superior now.
I think it's swings and roundabouts. I found 'times tables', reading, grammar and punctuation very useful in my life and they were a big part of my primary education. Spellcheckers are no help when you have to decide whether to write there or their, witch or which or where to put an apostrophe.
On the other hand children are more confident and imaginative these days.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2019, 03:10:57 PM
You could take GSEs at a London Comprehensive. No such thing was available at a Middlesex Secondary Modern. I know because I went to both.
Not disagreeing. The old education system had Grammar Schools for academic subjects and Secondary Mods aimed at work related subjects, all covered by modern comprehensives.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 03:14:42 PM
Comprehensives were seriously better than Secondary Moderns.
I am not sure where you were raised, so I cannot comment on your personal experiences, nor would I if I could.
I know that in my day, there was an 11+. That the brightest kids were challenged academically. And that those not so bright went to schools where the curriculum was tailored appropriately to them.
It was a high quality school system, possibly even the finest in the world.
Then comprehensives tried desperately to fit square pegs into round holes. I am not convinced the system has ever recovered.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 03:22:05 PM
I am not sure where you were raised, so I cannot comment on your personal experiences, nor would I if I could.
I know that in my day, there was an 11+. That the brightest kids were challenged academically. And that those not so bright went to schools where the curriculum was tailored appropriately to them.
It was a high quality school system, possibly even the finest in the world.
Then comprehensives tried desperately to fit square pegs into round holes. I am not convinced the system has ever recovered.
The 11 plus was abolished in 76....were you still at school then.... I actually think the present system is better... We are still producing just as many if not more professionals
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 02, 2019, 03:25:00 PM
That is actually a sign of education dumbing down.
As, in my opinion, is replacing timed exams with assessments. I think one of the componenrs of intelligence is speed.Slow thinkers may get there in the end, but they will always arrive after those who think quickly.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2019, 03:26:12 PM
The 11 plus was abolished in 76....were you still at school then.... I actually think the present system is better... We are still producing just as many if not more professionals
Can you provide a cite for that?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2019, 03:27:14 PM
As, in my opinion, is replacing timed exams with assessments. I think one of the componenrs of intelligence is speed.Slow thinkers may get there in the end, but they will always arrive after those who think quickly.
I think speed of thought is key to some professions but not all.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 03:28:35 PM
Higher level courses require a certain level of knowledge which is fairly constant.
If Cs were required at a certain period and As are required now, then it follows that a C in the past is equivalent to an A now. It is as easy to get an A now as a C then.
Or it could be educational standards have risen and more students are acheiving higher grades...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 03:29:57 PM
The 11 plus was abolished in 76....were you still at school then.... I actually think the present system is better... We are still producing just as many if not more professionals
I was at school when it went comprehensive.
I sat an 11+.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 02, 2019, 03:31:50 PM
I am not sure where you were raised, so I cannot comment on your personal experiences, nor would I if I could.
I know that in my day, there was an 11+. That the brightest kids were challenged academically. And that those not so bright went to schools where the curriculum was tailored appropriately to them.
It was a high quality school system, possibly even the finest in the world.
Then comprehensives tried desperately to fit square pegs into round holes. I am not convinced the system has ever recovered.
London and Middlesex. I was moved from a London Comprehensive where I could have taken GSEs, to a Middlesex Secondary Modern where I didn't even get the opportunity. French? No chance. Although I was learning French at the Comprehensive.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2019, 03:32:59 PM
Can we stop all the petty sniping.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 02, 2019, 03:35:50 PM
London and Middlesex. I was moved from a London Comprehensive where I could have taken GSEs, to a Middlesex Secondary Modern where I didn't even get the opportunity. French? No chance. Although I was learning French at the Comprehensive.
May I ask what a GSE is?
I presume it is not a GCSE, but how does it compare?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2019, 03:38:24 PM
I presume it is not a GCSE, but how does it compare?
It's what they used to be called. Probably fractionally more difficult.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 02, 2019, 03:48:08 PM
I don;'t even know if i can follow the point of this conversation. Are we measuring intellegence with one another or generally?
The thing about educaitons is it has been set up to a one size fits all- which we know it doesn't.
Every individual has a different learning curve and even then they have various degrees of levels of attainment.
As an example my friend went to Private school and was never diagniosed as having dyslexia- failed all academic exams, however, she is a very successful business woman- multi millionaire.
My nephew has Autism he is an absolute genius with numbers, cannot communcate at an intellectual level. he is also more IT savvy than his teacher- he is 9.
Some people can read an instruction manual and withou tchecking it again can build something Some people can build something by watching some one else and copying them. It depends on your learning curve. Exams do not measure how employable someone is.
Being a snob about money or education is a sad pastime for many.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 03:51:01 PM
You are being obtuse, I ask you for a cite backing up that statement and you then seem to lose all powers of reasoning.
“We are still producing just as many if not more professionals”
without digging too deep ....certainly im my profession at least one new university has opened and their are more palces for medics now....we ahve more universities so are producing more professionals...can you not see taht simple fact
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2019, 04:00:01 PM
without digging too deep ....certainly im my profession at least one new university has opened and their are more palces for medics now....we ahve more universities so are producing more professionals...can you not see taht simple fact
We need figures not your feelings.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 04:05:15 PM
Year-on-year growth in membership figures at the accountancy bodies has hit a five-year high, while the total fee income of the audit firms which audit public interest entities (PIEs) has increased, although there has been a notable decrease in the fee income for non-audit work, according to the Financial Reporting Council (FRC)
In my school (posh boarding school) you were either bright and did Latin or dim and did DS. I had to do Latin but would have gained so many more life skills from DS, so I feel I was somewhat disadvantaged by my high intelligence.
@)(++(* @)(++(* 8@??)(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 02, 2019, 04:19:33 PM
Year-on-year growth in membership figures at the accountancy bodies has hit a five-year high, while the total fee income of the audit firms which audit public interest entities (PIEs) has increased, although there has been a notable decrease in the fee income for non-audit work, according to the Financial Reporting Council (FRC)
The 11 plus was abolished in 76....were you still at school then.... I actually think the present system is better... We are still producing just as many if not more professionals
I recall passing my mock 11+ but they changed the system that year and brought in so-called intelligence tests which I failed simply because we weren't ready for them. I was accepted into grammar school however as a private feepaying student until I passed a further exam after a year. I always resented what occurred and the way we were treated as Guinea pigs.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: slartibartfast on June 02, 2019, 04:24:42 PM
I recall passing my mock 11+ but they changed the system that year and brought in so-called intelligence tests which I failed simply because we weren't ready for them. I was accepted into grammar school however as a private feepaying student until I passed a further exam after a year. I always resented what occurred and the way we were treated as Guinea pigs.
I just sailed through them all ...horses for courses I suppose
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on June 02, 2019, 05:04:28 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 07, 2019, 11:32:11 PM
Now why on earth would Faithlilly feel moved to report to us that Gerry McCann did not receive an honour in the New Year’s (sic) Honours List? Has anyone here suggested that he would or should? Are supporters meant to be cross or upset that he hasn’t? Are we to take it that no honour = guilty as sin?? I’m pretty sure it’s not the first time Faith has reported here on the non-bestowing of an honour on Gerry, one might think she was harbouring a deep obsessive hatred for the man and is intent on using any and every news report and twisting it into bad news for the McCanns. How incredibly childish. IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on June 07, 2019, 11:38:39 PM
Now why on earth would Faithlilly feel moved to report to us that Gerry McCann did not receive an honour in the New Year’s (sic) Honours List? Has anyone here suggested that he would or should? Are supporters meant to be cross or upset that he hasn’t? Are we to take it that no honour = guilty as sin?? I’m pretty sure it’s not the first time Faith has reported here on the non-bestowing of an honour on Gerry, one might think she was harbouring a deep obsessive hatred for the man and is intent on using any and every news report and twisting it into bad news for the McCanns. How incredibly childish. IMO.
The Queen's Birthday Honours list has just been announced today.....I presume Faithlilly does not have use of a Tardis.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 07, 2019, 11:44:28 PM
It's the usual list of actors, musicians and some well deserved charity and good deed awards. Gerry isn't there, I'm not there and honestly VS you are not there either. 8)><(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on June 07, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
It's the usual list of actors, musicians and some well deserved charity and good deed awards. Gerry isn't there, I'm not there and honestly VS you are not there either. 8)><(
Maybe next year Erngath.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 07, 2019, 11:57:01 PM
Now why on earth would Faithlilly feel moved to report to us that Gerry McCann did not receive an honour in the New Year’s (sic) Honours List? Has anyone here suggested that he would or should? Are supporters meant to be cross or upset that he hasn’t? Are we to take it that no honour = guilty as sin?? I’m pretty sure it’s not the first time Faith has reported here on the non-bestowing of an honour on Gerry, one might think she was harbouring a deep obsessive hatred for the man and is intent on using any and every news report and twisting it into bad news for the McCanns. How incredibly childish. IMO.
Indeed
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on June 08, 2019, 12:03:33 AM
That would depend on whether you'd be prepared to embrace knowledge of the future or take steps to alter the course of events. I wish I'd had one 20 years ago, though.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on June 08, 2019, 12:05:16 AM
Is this directed to me or " all" ? Carly liked your post. She's never, ever liked any of my posts or replied to one of my posts. 8)><(
Ouch. Think of all you ae missing
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 10, 2019, 06:35:24 PM
Top Madeleine McCann cop slams trolls for harming tot's siblings – calls for police action
A TOP Brit detective has lashed out at trolls for attacking Madeleine McCann's parents Kate and Gerry and creating a "vile cesspit" of allegations.
Jim Gamble was the UK’s top child protection police officer in the UK and heavily involved in the initial search for Maddie.
The experienced cop spent years examining the case and analysing evidence – and has now called for the police to step in over Kate and Gerry's abuse.
The tragic tot disappeared from her family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, on the evening of May 3, 2007.
British and Portuguese police afterwards launched an enormous operation, but the desperate hunt continues 12 years on.
Since then, sick trolls have made allegations about Kate and Gerry – despite their being no evidence to support their claims.
The family have been relentlessly abused on social media, with keyboard sickos posting cruel jokes and baseless theories on Facebook and Twitter.
Mr Gamble helped Gerry draft a statement during the initial investigation.
He told Daily Star Online: “The trolls take the view that Kate and Gerry can ignore Twitter and not go online, but that is in essence harassing someone from a public place where they have every right to be.
“The hypocrisy of the trolls that really gets me is: they hide behind anonymous names, they rant at the parents, and they do so claiming to be child protection advocates – to be only interested in doing what’s best for Madeleine and children.
“Yet they’re failing to grasp the irony that Sean and Amelie (Madeleine’s siblings) will now be at an age when they’ll be occupying online spaces.
“And every time they search their names or search anything about their sister, they’re going to come across this cesspit of vile comments that these self-proclaimed child protection advocates – who are in essence trolls – have left there for them.
“I remain disappointed at the police’s failure to hold those who are clearly committing offences of criminal harassment online responsible.”
Sean and Amelie are Maddie’s twin siblings, and were born in February 2005, meaning they are now aged 14, so highly likely to be aware of social media.
They were two years old at the time of their sister’s disappearance on May 3, 2007, and are thought to have been asleep during her disappearance.
Cops are still trying to trace 13 suspects seen acting suspiciously in and around the resort before Madeleine’s disappearance.
Despite high profile police appeals and the release of a series of sketches and e-fits in the 12 years since, no trace of Maddie has been found.
One suspect is feared to have carried out up to 28 sex attacks on other children within a 40-mile radius of the apartment from which then-three-year-old Madeleine went missing.
Wearing a surgical mask, he apparently got into bed with a seven-year-old British girl but fled when she woke up and asked: “Is that you daddy?’’
Another was chased from a holiday apartment after a horrified mum caught him standing over her young daughter.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 10, 2019, 06:37:36 PM
Good on ya Jim Gamble, for telling it how it is and for saying what we on here are not allowed to say. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 10, 2019, 06:41:17 PM
Don't get too excited, its not likely to change anything
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 10, 2019, 06:41:51 PM
Trolling the McCanns is a victim less crime, since Kate & Gerry don't use social media & the twins don't use the internet without someone breathing down their necks.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 10, 2019, 06:43:18 PM
Trolling the McCanns is a victim less crime, since Kate & Gerry don't use social media & the twins don't use the internet without someone breathing down their necks.
I think the trolls are the real victims personally. Victims of their own malice and stupidity, they probably struggle with inter-personal relationships in real life. You've got to feel sorry for such inadequates.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 10, 2019, 07:33:54 PM
I think the trolls are the real victims personally. Victims of their own malice and stupidity, they probably struggle with inter-personal relationships in real life. You've got to feel sorry for such inadequates.
Trolling the McCanns is pure fun & has never caused me any personal ill, infact, I'd say it makes me a better person for doing it. I could be doing far worse things on the internet, but I'll leave that to the supporters.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 10, 2019, 08:01:30 PM
Trolling the McCanns is pure fun & has never caused me any personal ill, infact, I'd say it makes me a better person for doing it. I could be doing far worse things on the internet, but I'll leave that to the supporters.
Sad, so sad.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 10, 2019, 08:07:07 PM
Good on ya Jim Gamble, for telling it how it is and for saying what we on here are not allowed to say. 8((()*/
No one is stopping you saying trolls should be proscecuted- what a daft idea.
Perhaps you are getting confused as to what a troll is. JIM G points out specificly about accusing the parents of killing or harming their daughter-without showing actual physical evidence of such- I agree with him- that is what a troll is. You and the other supporters were calling everyone on here who did not believe the McCanns version of that evening- trolls.
If we ask questions that make the parents feel uncomfortable that is too bad- they brought a lot of misery to a lot of people including their own families- not to mention what happened to their daughter Madeleine!
On this very forum supporters do their fair bit of 'trolling' of Amaral, the Portuguese judicery and police also,the locals. and anyone who disagrees with Team McCanns account.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 10, 2019, 10:20:21 PM
No one is stopping you saying trolls should be proscecuted- what a daft idea.
Perhaps you are getting confused as to what a troll is. JIM G points out specificly about accusing the parents of killing or harming their daughter-without showing actual physical evidence of such- I agree with him- that is what a troll is. You and the other supporters were calling everyone on here who did not believe the McCanns version of that evening- trolls.
If we ask questions that make the parents feel uncomfortable that is too bad- they brought a lot of misery to a lot of people including their own families- not to mention what happened to their daughter Madeleine!
On this very forum supporters do their fair bit of 'trolling' of Amaral, the Portuguese judicery and police also,the locals. and anyone who disagrees with Team McCanns account.
This: “The hypocrisy of the trolls that really gets me is: they hide behind anonymous names, they rant at the parents, and they do so claiming to be child protection advocates – to be only interested in doing what’s best for Madeleine and children.
“Yet they’re failing to grasp the irony that Sean and Amelie (Madeleine’s siblings) will now be at an age when they’ll be occupying online spaces.
“And every time they search their names or search anything about their sister, they’re going to come across this cesspit of vile comments that these self-proclaimed child protection advocates – who are in essence trolls – have left there for them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 10, 2019, 10:32:53 PM
This: “The hypocrisy of the trolls that really gets me is: they hide behind anonymous names, they rant at the parents, and they do so claiming to be child protection advocates – to be only interested in doing what’s best for Madeleine and children.
“Yet they’re failing to grasp the irony that Sean and Amelie (Madeleine’s siblings) will now be at an age when they’ll be occupying online spaces.
“And every time they search their names or search anything about their sister, they’re going to come across this cesspit of vile comments that these self-proclaimed child protection advocates – who are in essence trolls – have left there for them.
Has anyone on here actually said they are child protection experts? Is anyone on here saying anything untrue about the case? are sceptics on here harrassing the parents annonymously ? I don't think so. most are seeking answer to questions which challlemge the parents story. Nothing wrong with that at all.
So the twins are being used as a ploy now? The twins are victims for sure- they may want to ask the very same questions we ask, it could have been one of them. Shutting down global network to 'protect' parents who have failed to protect their own daughter is an irony too much.
What if the actual figure of this trolling is in 10s of thousands...spend more money on police protection of the reputation for the McCanns?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 10, 2019, 10:54:28 PM
Has anyone on here actually said they are child protection experts? Is anyone on here saying anything untrue about the case? are sceptics on here harrassing the parents annonymously ? I don't think so. most are seeking answer to questions which challlemge the parents story. Nothing wrong with that at all.
So the twins are being used as a ploy now? The twins are victims for sure- they may want to ask the very same questions we ask, it could have been one of them. Shutting down global network to 'protect' parents who have failed to protect their own daughter is an irony too much.
What if the actual figure of this trolling is in 10s of thousands...spend more money on police protection of the reputation for the McCanns?
Methink the lady doth protest too much.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 10, 2019, 11:00:17 PM
You thinks you is smart. No one is protesting anything ,I was asking questions but ferry enuff You cannot answer them. Just say so in future because your sarcasm is bland,predictable and boring. It also missed its target- bit pointless really. @)(++(*
Have a nice eveing-
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 10, 2019, 11:02:50 PM
You thinks you is smart. No one is protesting anything ,I was asking questions but ferry enuff You cannot answer them. Just say so in future because your sarcasm is bland,predictable and boring. It also missed its target- bit pointless really. @)(++(*
Have a nice eveing-
Stop being so beastly to me, my children are reading this over my shoulder and now they are both crying. 8)><(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on June 10, 2019, 11:07:27 PM
No one is stopping you saying trolls should be proscecuted- what a daft idea.
Perhaps you are getting confused as to what a troll is. JIM G points out specificly about accusing the parents of killing or harming their daughter-without showing actual physical evidence of such- I agree with him- that is what a troll is. You and the other supporters were calling everyone on here who did not believe the McCanns version of that evening- trolls.
If we ask questions that make the parents feel uncomfortable that is too bad- they brought a lot of misery to a lot of people including their own families- not to mention what happened to their daughter Madeleine!
On this very forum supporters do their fair bit of 'trolling' of Amaral, the Portuguese judicery and police also,the locals. and anyone who disagrees with Team McCanns account.
We can back all we say with proof, tho.
You can't
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 10, 2019, 11:08:39 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on June 11, 2019, 09:41:33 AM
WARNING!
Some of the language that has been used recently towards members and moderators is totally unacceptable and has resulted in at least one temporary ban. Regular posters are very well aware of the forum rules so I shouldn't need to have to keep reminding of them. Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion here but it must be done respectfully, there can be no exceptions.
A challenge, let's try and get through today without the need for any moderation. TY
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on June 11, 2019, 11:26:25 AM
Unless I provide a covering statement, I have always, until my serious recent illness, provided proofs where needed.
Now I am too tired BUT I always tell the truth and provide Imo's where necessary. Most things that your side ask for cites for are common knowledge and have been gone over multiple times already.
If you are honest, many of the requests are just made to time waste for me ... and to throw me off making a point as thoroughly as I, at times, do.
Interrupt the flow, harrass the poster, then change the topic.
That's the real reason that most cites are requested imo. Your side do it all the time with such as Davel.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 11, 2019, 11:45:29 AM
What I know is that you can spend the time of a temporary ban to improve.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2019, 11:50:34 AM
Improve what? Your ability to withstand constantly being asked for cites, when others aren't? Your ability to withstand being goaded and harassed?
There are posters here who seem to be allowed to post their opinions and sometimes libellous opinions without experiencing any of the above!
I'm sure that if moderators consider something to libelous, then it is removed PDQ. If it remains, it clearly isn't as libelous as you would like to think.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2019, 11:56:42 AM
I'm sure that if moderators consider something to libelous, then it is removed PDQ. If it remains, it clearly isn't as libelous as you would like to think.
Nothing posted about the McCanns would ever be libellous to your goodself and to others here ! . Some even find humour in the plight of a missing little girl.
In my opinion of course.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 11, 2019, 12:01:59 PM
Nothing posted about the McCanns would ever be libellous to your goodself and to others here ! . Some even find humour in the plight of a missing little girl.
In my opinion of course.
IMO very little that is libelous gets posted on this forum.
As for humour, its more a case to taking the piss out of the likes of you and your attitudes towards the McCanns and the inventive excuses you make for them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on June 11, 2019, 12:05:10 PM
Unless I provide a covering statement, I have always, until my serious recent illness, provided proofs where needed.
Now I am too tired BUT I always tell the truth and provide Imo's where necessary. Most things that your side ask for cites for are common knowledge and have been gone over multiple times already.
If you are honest, many of the requests are just made to time waste for me ... and to throw me off making a point as thoroughly as I, at times, do.
Interrupt the flow, harrass the poster, then change the topic.
That's the real reason that most cites are requested imo. Your side do it all the time with such as Davel.
Whilst the divisive tone of this post is disappointing, as I'm not a fan of all this 'supporter' 'sceptic' nonsense, you have a decent point. Surely there are numerous 'known facts' or 'givens' that we can all agree upon without having to constantly cite. ....I was just about to suggest the creation of organically created list that's consensus driven and populated - but then I reflected, had a word with myself and remembered where I was. There'd be a fire fight over every single aspect that would quickly descend in to a maelstrom of abuse, heckling, goading, followed by trigger moderation.
I'll get my coat.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2019, 12:05:32 PM
IMO very little that is libelous gets posted on this forum.
As for humour, its more a case to taking the piss out of the likes of you and your attitudes towards the McCanns.
Is that the reason you post on the forum........" to take the piss out of the likes of me and my attitude" towards a missing child and her family?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on June 11, 2019, 12:06:30 PM
There is a reporting facility on the forum and it only takes a few seconds to use it. There is no reason for any potentially litigious comments to escape moderation.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 11, 2019, 12:07:13 PM
Whilst the divisive tone of this post is disappointing, as I'm not a fan of all this 'supporter' 'sceptic' nonsense, you have a decent point. Surely there are numerous 'known facts' or 'givens' that we can all agree upon without having to constantly cite. ....I was just about to suggest the creation of organically created list that's consensus driven and populated - but then I reflected, had a word with myself and remembered where I was. There'd be a fire fight over every single aspect that would quickly descend in to a maelstrom of abuse, heckling, goading, followed by trigger moderation.
I'll get my coat.
I agree with you about the constant requesting for cites, especially as there is no consistency with the requests!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2019, 12:12:06 PM
Improve what? Your ability to withstand constantly being asked for cites, when others aren't? Your ability to withstand being goaded and harassed?
There are posters here who seem to be allowed to post their opinions and sometimes libellous opinions without experiencing any of the above!
I was banned from this forum several times IIRC back in 2017. I would spend that month or whatever thew time was to study up on the points of the case, so I felt I came back stronger, and knowing what I had done wrong, and try not to do it again.
It is an advantage to not feel harassed especially when you are not. You might not have noticed but most times I ask for cites I go and find them myself. But I expect at least some help in finding the right source material.
As a member it might be hard to see what is going on in the background. Some posters might appear to get away with murder, but I'd say learn from them. How do they do it? To me it feels like there is a threshold that they don't pass.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on June 11, 2019, 12:20:37 PM
What I know is that you can spend the time of a temporary ban to improve.
Did you spend the time improving ... and you did improve somewhat ... then you posted that AWFUL post about Davel? Now removed, thank goodness, but not until after my complaint.
And, no I am not going to repeat it. I suggest that anyone who does should be sued.
Rob, You have done more than your fair share of bullying Davel, no wonder if he has got a wee bit ragged around the edges with such a rabble constantly going at him. It's Political, and you, Davel, are too fast and good for them
They won't allow Davel to make any points without all diving in and trying to destroy him. Davel, they are trying to hide your points and get rid of you
Great fighter is Davel
Good to see you, Erngath, supporting him. We all should be, if we believe in JUSTICE. In FREE SPEECH and allowing both sides to speak
My guess is that this post will be removed or heavily modified
AIMHO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 11, 2019, 12:21:26 PM
I agree with you about the constant requesting for cites, especially as there is no consistency with the requests!
If someone asks for a cite anyone from the whole forum community can step in and help. OK it was a particularly difficult topic the other day as we were discussing Portuguese law and only a few members here actually read Portuguese so very few came to our help.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2019, 12:26:00 PM
I was banned from this forum several times IIRC back in 2017. I would spend that month or whatever thew time was to study up on the points of the case, so I felt I came back stronger, and knowing what I had done wrong, and try not to do it again.
It is an advantage to not feel harassed especially when you are not. You might not have noticed but most times I ask for cites I go and find them myself. But I expect at least some help in finding the right source material.
As a member it might be hard to see what is going on in the background. Some posters might appear to get away with murder, but I'd say learn from them. How do they do it? To me it feels like there is a threshold that they don't pass.
I note all that you say. However it is my opinion that moderation is not fairly applied. I appreciate it is a difficult and thankless task. That does not alter my opinion that cites are demanded from certain posters but not from others with the same consistency.
It is not a level playing field!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2019, 12:28:44 PM
Did you spend the time improving ... then you posted that AWFUL post about Davel? Now removed, thank goodness, but not until after my complaint.
And, no I am not going to repeat it. I suggest that anyone who does should be sued.
You have done more than your fair share of bullying Davel, no wonder if he has got a wee bit ragged around the edges with such a rabble constantly going at him. It's Political, and you are too fast and good for them
You won't allow him to make any points without all diving in and trying to destroy him. They are trying to hide your points and get rid of you
Great fighter is Davel
Good to see you, Erngath, supporting him. We all should be, if we believe in JUSTICE. In FREE SPEECH
My guess is that this post will be removed or heavily modified
AIMHO
It was all most unfair!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 11, 2019, 12:30:16 PM
I complained to John about members blocking Moderators. OK Davel and I could have discussed much of the issue off the forum via personal messages (PM) but I was blocked.
Most other forums that was considered an offence to block a moderator. OK how do you feel about that? Should you be allowed to block a moderator?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 11, 2019, 12:37:54 PM
I note all that you say. However it is my opinion that moderation is not fairly applied. I appreciate it is a difficult and thankless task. That does not alter my opinion that cites are demanded from certain posters but not from others with the same consistency.
It is not a level playing field!
I have studied this case for 3 years now so most things that you think require cites I probably know or have seen already. I do ask for cites, and recently when I asked for a cite I followed that up with a PM and got responses from the people I requested cites from. OK Davel has me blocked remember so I can't PM him to track the progress of the cite request.
If you think something requires a cite ask for it yourself.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on June 11, 2019, 12:43:44 PM
Did you spend the time improving ... then you posted that AWFUL post about Davel? Now removed, thank goodness, but not until after my complaint.
And, no I am not going to repeat it. I suggest that anyone who does should be sued.
You have done more than your fair share of bullying Davel, no wonder if he has got a wee bit ragged around the edges with such a rabble constantly going at him. It's Political, and you are too fast and good for them
You won't allow him to make any points without all diving in and trying to destroy him. They are trying to hide your points and get rid of you
Great fighter is Davel
Good to see you, Erngath, supporting him. We all should be, if we believe in JUSTICE. In FREE SPEECH
My guess is that this post will be removed or heavily modified
AIMHO
To be fair it was all a bit ridiculous. I tried to lend some sense to proceedings (I don't have much to give), but it fell on deaf ears. Rob and Dave were on a mission and I think both should have been moderated. I know it's hard for some to comprehend, but this forum ,and your really important stance on a certain point, is not so important. Squabbling over the nuances of an obscure facet of the Portuguese legal framework with strangers on the internet who you have decided you hate, is futile.
I was guilty of this on a forum about 10 years ago, until I had a Damasean epiphany when I decided I wanted to physically have an actual real life fight with my online nemesis - long story curtailed - I logged out, switched the computer off and never went back to the forum - I was trying to find this guys home address to go round there to fill him in. We all think we're clever. We're all perfect and we're all always right. We get it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 11, 2019, 12:52:31 PM
To be fair it was all a bit ridiculous. I tried to lend some sense to proceedings (I don't have much to give), but it fell on deaf ears. Rob and Dave were on a mission and I think both should have been moderated. I know it's hard for some to comprehend, but this forum ,and your really important stance on a certain point, is not so important. Squabbling over the nuances of an obscure facet of the Portuguese legal framework with strangers on the internet who you have decided you hate, is futile.
I was guilty of this on a forum about 10 years ago, until I had a Damasean epiphany when I decided I wanted to physically have an actual real life fight with my online nemesis - long story curtailed - I logged out, switched the computer off and never went back to the forum - I was trying to find this guys home address to go round there to fill him in. We all think we're clever. We're all perfect and we're all always right. We get it.
Well it is one thing I'll never come across as, as being perfect or always right. I treat this case as something to learn about. You and I can learn together.
But when it comes to matters of moderation, I moderate, and even then the Admin can reverse my moderation decisions, but that is how it goes.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on June 11, 2019, 12:58:02 PM
Well it is one thing I'll never come across as, as being perfect or always right. I treat this case as something to learn about. You and I can learn together.
But when it comes to matters of moderation, I moderate, and even then the Admin can reverse my moderation decisions, but that is how it goes.
Everyone here can see that my knowledge is lacking, which I try to cover with levity and humour. Yes I've read everything and watched videos, read the books, but there's some here who have trodden this path many times - which is why I sense frustration with my raising rudimentary points. Some have gone and investigated in situ - fair play, I'm not that dedicated. You put me straight the other day - I'm happy with that, as you say, it's about learning. The ego needs to be told to shut up when it butts in and tells us it's been 'offended'. I still have a pop every now and again, but I'm trying to self-counsel that sh1t out of my behaviour.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 11, 2019, 01:10:09 PM
Everyone here can see that my knowledge is lacking, which I try to cover with levity and humour. Yes I've read everything and watched videos, read the books, but there's some here who have trodden this path many times - which is why I sense frustration with my raising rudimentary points. Some have gone and investigated in situ - fair play, I'm not that dedicated. You put me straight the other day - I'm happy with that, as you say, it's about learning. The ego needs to be told to shut up when it butts in and tells us it's been 'offended'. I still have a pop every now and again, but I'm trying to self-counsel that sh1t out of my behaviour.
I was thinking the other day when we had our little moment, I thought of all the people here I relate to you the most as we behave similarly.
And just what you talk about above is where I was 2-3 years ago, adjusting and learning.
Now for the last year or so I've been learning the art of moderator. It is a complex issue and I'm trying to make a difference. (It was around Christmas 2017 that I was invited to be a moderator. (So 1.5 years so far).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on June 11, 2019, 01:50:25 PM
I complained to John about members blocking Moderators. OK Davel and I could have discussed much of the issue off the forum via personal messages (PM) but I was blocked.
Most other forums that was considered an offence to block a moderator. OK how do you feel about that? Should you be allowed to block a moderator?
He can't block you but he can put you on ignore.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 11, 2019, 02:04:48 PM
I complained to John about members blocking Moderators. OK Davel and I could have discussed much of the issue off the forum via personal messages (PM) but I was blocked.
Most other forums that was considered an offence to block a moderator. OK how do you feel about that? Should you be allowed to block a moderator?
Personally, no, I do not think it should be permissible to block a moderator.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 11, 2019, 02:18:46 PM
Everyone here can see that my knowledge is lacking, which I try to cover with levity and humour. Yes I've read everything and watched videos, read the books, but there's some here who have trodden this path many times - which is why I sense frustration with my raising rudimentary points. Some have gone and investigated in situ - fair play, I'm not that dedicated. You put me straight the other day - I'm happy with that, as you say, it's about learning. The ego needs to be told to shut up when it butts in and tells us it's been 'offended'. I still have a pop every now and again, but I'm trying to self-counsel that sh1t out of my behaviour.
If someone on the forum who has considerable expertise is not willing to help with a basic, much discussed question is unwilling to provide assistance, that is their choice, and I take no issue with that.
However, if someone answers such a request with a curt put-down, I most certainly do take issue with that.
If you check the number of guests on this forum, it is often quite considerable.
So one has to ask oneself, how many of these guests would become active posters if the forum was less abrasive and more helpful?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on June 11, 2019, 02:23:54 PM
If someone on the forum who has considerable expertise is not willing to help with a basic, much discussed question is unwilling to provide assistance, that is their choice, and I take no issue with that.
However, if someone answers such a request with a curt put-down, I most certainly do take issue with that.
If you check the number of guests on this forum, it is often quite considerable.
So one has to ask oneself, how many of these guests would become active posters if the forum was less abrasive and more helpful?
True. Although I do know that the number of 'guests' will sometimes be up to 70% Googlebots / spiders. Apparently.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 11, 2019, 02:52:14 PM
Did you spend the time improving ... and you did improve somewhat ... then you posted that AWFUL post about Davel? Now removed, thank goodness, but not until after my complaint.
And, no I am not going to repeat it. I suggest that anyone who does should be sued.
Rob, You have done more than your fair share of bullying Davel, no wonder if he has got a wee bit ragged around the edges with such a rabble constantly going at him. It's Political, and you, Davel, are too fast and good for them
They won't allow Davel to make any points without all diving in and trying to destroy him. Davel, they are trying to hide your points and get rid of you
Great fighter is Davel
Good to see you, Erngath, supporting him. We all should be, if we believe in JUSTICE. In FREE SPEECH and allowing both sides to speak
My guess is that this post will be removed or heavily modified
AIMHO
I don't think you're helping Davel when you paint him as a victim. He's no shrinking violet and he often reaps what he's sown imo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2019, 03:07:20 PM
He is a much valued contributor to the.forum and it will be much.the poorer by.his absence. In my opinion of course . I doubt you will agree!
I didn't see the.post.which Sadie references. Did you?
He,....contributes, a lot, to the average,... use of, incorrect, punctuation, on, the forum..,,, I .......see, his.... misuse of, punctuation has,....rubbed off ,....on.,.. you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 11, 2019, 03:55:47 PM
I complained to John about members blocking Moderators. OK Davel and I could have discussed much of the issue off the forum via personal messages (PM) but I was blocked.
Most other forums that was considered an offence to block a moderator. OK how do you feel about that? Should you be allowed to block a moderator?
The Rule is that you may block a Moderator. I only found it difficult when I wanted to say something pleasant to a Member .. And as what was said to me was it was their loss, I settled for that. But then I have never had any desire to say something unpleasant by PM. Neither do I feel inclined to apologise or explain what I choose to do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 11, 2019, 03:59:44 PM
To be fair it was all a bit ridiculous. I tried to lend some sense to proceedings (I don't have much to give), but it fell on deaf ears. Rob and Dave were on a mission and I think both should have been moderated. I know it's hard for some to comprehend, but this forum ,and your really important stance on a certain point, is not so important. Squabbling over the nuances of an obscure facet of the Portuguese legal framework with strangers on the internet who you have decided you hate, is futile.
I was guilty of this on a forum about 10 years ago, until I had a Damasean epiphany when I decided I wanted to physically have an actual real life fight with my online nemesis - long story curtailed - I logged out, switched the computer off and never went back to the forum - I was trying to find this guys home address to go round there to fill him in. We all think we're clever. We're all perfect and we're all always right. We get it.
A Good Post. Well, the first bit anyway.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 11, 2019, 04:00:56 PM
The Rule is that you may block a Moderator. I only found it difficult when I wanted to say something pleasant to a Member .. And as what was said to me was it was their loss, I settled for that. But then I have never had any desire to say something unpleasant by PM. Neither do I feel inclined to apologise or explain what I choose to do.
I've never been tempted to put any poster on ignore. It is much more satisfying to read the drivel some post, have a good laugh at the drivel and then ignore the drivel!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 11, 2019, 04:03:11 PM
I was thinking the other day when we had our little moment, I thought of all the people here I relate to you the most as we behave similarly.
And just what you talk about above is where I was 2-3 years ago, adjusting and learning.
Now for the last year or so I've been learning the art of moderator. It is a complex issue and I'm trying to make a difference. (It was around Christmas 2017 that I was invited to be a moderator. (So 1.5 years so far).
It is a learning curve, several actually. I can't remember how long I have been doing this. But in the end you have to believe in yourself while being open to learning something else.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 11, 2019, 05:22:02 PM
To be fair it was all a bit ridiculous. I tried to lend some sense to proceedings (I don't have much to give), but it fell on deaf ears. Rob and Dave were on a mission and I think both should have been moderated. I know it's hard for some to comprehend, but this forum ,and your really important stance on a certain point, is not so important. Squabbling over the nuances of an obscure facet of the Portuguese legal framework with strangers on the internet who you have decided you hate, is futile.
I was guilty of this on a forum about 10 years ago, until I had a Damasean epiphany when I decided I wanted to physically have an actual real life fight with my online nemesis - long story curtailed - I logged out, switched the computer off and never went back to the forum - I was trying to find this guys home address to go round there to fill him in. We all think we're clever. We're all perfect and we're all always right. We get it.
What were you arguing about, out of interest?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 11, 2019, 05:33:32 PM
IMO very little that is libelous gets posted on this forum.
As for humour, its more a case to taking the piss out of the likes of you and your attitudes towards the McCanns and the inventive excuses you make for them.
Why are the supporters of an abduction, often accused of 'making excuses' for the McCann's? How can you debate if you can't put forward your opinion as to what you believe happened? I really get quite annoyed by being accused of 'making excuses' if I come up with a reason why the McCann's said something or did something, it's my opinion and I and other supporters of an abduction are entitled to an opinion.
Those who don't agree with what a supporter says don't get accused of making excuses for an abuctor do they?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 11, 2019, 05:43:51 PM
Why are the supporters of an abduction, often accused of 'making excuses' for the McCann's? How can you debate if you can't put forward your opinion as to what you believe happened? I really get quite annoyed by being accused of 'making excuses' if I come up with a reason why the McCann's said something or did something, it's my opinion and I and other supporters of an abduction are entitled to an opinion.
Those who don't agree with what a supporter says don't get accused of making excuses for an abuctor do they?
How, or indeed why should one make excuses for something that doesn't exist ?
IMO (as requested)
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 11, 2019, 05:45:41 PM
When you can prove the existence of an abductor, then I will review my opinion.
People who deny the possible existence of an abductor in this case are potentially aiding and abetting their crimes. IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2019, 06:22:24 PM
"He or she or they may strike again"
"There's an unsolved serious crime and there's a series of other crimes against children which have come to light who have been on holiday so at the very least these people need to be brought to justice."
"We don't know if Madeleine is alive or dead but there is no evidence that she is dead and she is a missing child and she is completely innocent."
Quick, to the helicopters!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on June 11, 2019, 06:24:13 PM
Do you deny the possible existence of an abductor? I had you down as a “possibly maybe”.
I was taking issue with the tenuous claim that, by refusing to believe the possibility of an abductor, someone would somehow be 'aiding and abetting'. A pedant could flip that statement on it's head.....'by refusing to believe Gerry and/or Kate are perverting the course of justice, etc, etc......'. All theories are on the table.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on June 11, 2019, 06:48:52 PM
I was taking issue with the tenuous claim that, by refusing to believe the possibility of an abductor, someone would somehow be 'aiding and abetting'. A pedant could flip that statement on it's head.....'by refusing to believe Gerry and/or Kate are perverting the course of justice, etc, etc......'. All theories are on the table.
Really? All of them? Ever read a sensible theory of parental involvement? I very much doubt it, but if you have feel free to pm it to me, I’ve been asking to read one for the last 12 years to no avail so far.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 11, 2019, 06:52:04 PM
Really? All of them? Ever read a sensible theory of parental involvement? I very much doubt it, but if you have feel free to pm it to me, I’ve been asking to read one for the last 12 years to no avail so far.
You've heard the Maddie in the bin theory plenty of times, you just won't accept it, despite it's simplicity.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on June 11, 2019, 06:52:59 PM
Really? All of them? Ever read a sensible theory of parental involvement? I very much doubt it, but if you have feel free to pm it to me, I’ve been asking to read one for the last 12 years to no avail so far.
I know Davel isn't here to castigate me at the moment, but I can't get past those damned, infernal dogs. "Cry 'Havoc!,' and let slip the dogs of war."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on June 11, 2019, 06:56:33 PM
I was taking issue with the tenuous claim that, by refusing to believe the possibility of an abductor, someone would somehow be 'aiding and abetting'. A pedant could flip that statement on it's head.....'by refusing to believe Gerry and/or Kate are perverting the course of justice, etc, etc......'. All theories are on the table.
I brought it up as many sceptics use the phrase 'making excuses for the McCann's' I don't think anyone would like it if supporters said 'making excuses for the abductor' and I've been proved right
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 11, 2019, 06:56:49 PM
I brought it up as many sceptics use the phrase 'making excuses for the McCann's' I don't think anyone would like it if supporters said 'making excuses for the abductor' and I've been proved right
It's not as simplistic as that. It's how far some supporters will go, even to the point of tweaking their moral compass to suit the circumstance, to align with the McCann's (the Jimmy Saville debate a week or so ago being a case in point). I'm not sure what you've been right about, or indeed what purpose that perceived victory serves.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 11, 2019, 07:02:06 PM
It's not as simplistic as that. It's how far some supporters will go, even to the point of tweaking their moral compass to suit the circumstance, to align with the McCann's (the Jimmy Saville debate a week or so ago being a case in point). I'm not sure what you've been right about, or indeed what purpose that perceived victory serves.
I was involved in that discussion and I don’t recall having to tweak anything. Please explain.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on June 11, 2019, 09:01:11 PM
Round and round we go. There is evidence I say, no there isn’t you say, blah blah blah ad infinitum.
No need to go round and round, the abducted from the bedroom claim has nothing to support it. It was invented on the night of Madeleine's disappearance without a shred of evidence. We don't even know for sure if the window was open or the shutter raised, certainly forensics offers a very different view of what occurred.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 11, 2019, 09:09:14 PM
No need to go round and round, the abducted from the bedroom claim has nothing to support it. We don't even know for sure if the window was open or the shutter raised, certainly forensics offers a very different view of what occurred.
So I’m just to accept what you say am I? Whatever.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on June 11, 2019, 09:10:17 PM
No need to go round and round, the abducted from the bedroom claim has nothing to support it. It was invented on the night of Madeleine's disappearance without a shred of evidence. We don't even know for sure if the window was open or the shutter raised, certainly forensics offers a very different view of what occurred.
Invented by whom?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 11, 2019, 09:39:32 PM
I was involved in that discussion and I don’t recall having to tweak anything. Please explain.
Certainly. I mentioned the ill-conceived, much vaunted Clement Freud invitiation acceptance, but not as a particular criticism of the McCann's, because how could they know what was to be revealed, but more of a reflection on what his motives were, given all that we now know. There were a few here who thought he wasn't given a fair trot because he was too dead to defend himself, and I used the Jimmy Saville analogy to refute that, given the overwhelming evidence against him. The Proof by Example fallacy was trotted out as a defence of Saville, with isolated cases of money grabbing being cited as casting doubt upon the other 500+ cases - hence, despite the government, NHS, various charities, et al apologising retrospectively, apparently the 'rule of law' should be applied in absentia irrespective. Given that we are talking about inveterate, heinous, prolonged recidivism here, I question the veracity and motive of the moral compass tweaking to fit the paradigm of McCann defence at all costs. So again, I'm more interested in the concepts at play here, and not the actual acts. It would appear to be a ham-fisted and transparent attempt to dispel the 'tainted by association' label at the cost of their own previous moral standing. Always stick the shoe on the other foot, see if it fits.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 11, 2019, 11:12:09 PM
Certainly. I mentioned the ill-conceived, much vaunted Clement Freud invitiation acceptance, but not as a particular criticism of the McCann's, because how could they know what was to be revealed, but more of a reflection on what his motives were, given all that we now know. There were a few here who thought he wasn't given a fair trot because he was too dead to defend himself, and I used the Jimmy Saville analogy to refute that, given the overwhelming evidence against him. The Proof by Example fallacy was trotted out as a defence of Saville, with isolated cases of money grabbing being cited as casting doubt upon the other 500+ cases - hence, despite the government, NHS, various charities, et al apologising retrospectively, apparently the 'rule of law' should be applied in absentia irrespective. Given that we are talking about inveterate, heinous, prolonged recidivism here, I question the veracity and motive of the moral compass tweaking to fit the paradigm of McCann defence at all costs. So again, I'm more interested in the concepts at play here, and not the actual acts. It would appear to be a ham-fisted and transparent attempt to dispel the 'tainted by association' label at the cost of their own previous moral standing. Always stick the shoe on the other foot, see if it fits.
Hmm..did I do some moral compass tweaking? I think not, I think I simply pointed out that the extent of Savile’s crimes may well have been grossly exaggerated which I think is fair comment. As far as Freud was concerned, his wife seemed prepared to accept his guilt despite him not being around to defend himself so that’s enough to convince me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on June 12, 2019, 01:05:41 AM
Hmm..did I do some moral compass tweaking? I think not, I think I simply pointed out that the extent of Savile’s crimes may well have been grossly exaggerated which I think is fair comment. As far as Freud was concerned, his wife seemed prepared to accept his guilt despite him not being around to defend himself so that’s enough to convince me.
No, it wasn't you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on June 12, 2019, 06:37:17 PM
No need to go round and round, the abducted from the bedroom claim has nothing to support it. It was invented on the night of Madeleine's disappearance without a shred of evidence. We don't even know for sure if the window was open or the shutter raised, certainly forensics offers a very different view of what occurred.
I don't agree with the bit in bold, John.
Forensics didn't reveal anything of use, aside from the fact that Kate's fingerprints were on the inside of the window, which is in no way incompatible with her placing fingers on the window to check if she wasn't outside.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 12, 2019, 09:39:21 PM
Many would think differently that nothing important was discovered lol. Kate never said she looked through the window in her statements but she did leave the twins and ran in the opposite direction to where Madeleine may have been.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on June 12, 2019, 10:24:56 PM
No need to go round and round, the abducted from the bedroom claim has nothing to support it. It was invented on the night of Madeleine's disappearance without a shred of evidence. We don't even know for sure if the window was open or the shutter raised, certainly forensics offers a very different view of what occurred.
Sorry John, but absolute Tommy Rot.
Plenty of evidence/pointers , but if you chose to turn a blind eye to them, then all we can do is despair.
You will not listen to arguments and you blow hot and cold on the subject of abductors.
Why?
All IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on June 12, 2019, 11:58:32 PM
Apart from your whimsical theory, you couldn't enlighten us as to what these might be?
SY seemed to like it anyway. 8(0(*
If Madeleine went through the window, then:
1. The massive pointer is the window being open and the shutters raised, but no Madeleine finger prints on the glass?
2. Then why were there no fibres on the window frame, no footprints on the sill, no finger prints anywhere?
3. The next one is the bedroom door being open far more than Madeleine on her own needed
4. The fourth one, if Madeleine woke and wandered is "Why didn't she take her beloved Cuddlw Cat" with her?
5. How would she cope with the nets in the way?
6. Would she be tall enough to reach the window handle ?
7. Then, apparently, no skin , blood or fibres on the wall under the window, nor on the concrete (IIRC) pathway. For such a little one the jump from that cill is rather too large for most kids to contemplate.
8. Also, it would have been dark out there. Daunting.
9. If she was distressed, before making the hypothetical decision to leave, where was the evidence of messed up bedclothes under her? No signs of distress there.
Am sure there are more but am tired. I personally am sure thta Madeleine did NOT exit via her bedroom window, but it is all my opinion basede upon facts.
If you want the front door and patio door, they will have to come later, but it has all been gone over before, umpteen times
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 13, 2019, 01:48:29 PM
Madeleine never opened the window and how are you certain she was in bed? Just because suspects told yer so? CC was placed on the bed with cadaver hands. SY like what you say? Really 8(>((
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on June 13, 2019, 01:54:43 PM
Madeleine never opened the window and how are you certain she was in bed? Just because suspects told yer so? CC was placed on the bed with cadaver hands. SY like what you say? Really 8(>((
What suspects? What are their names ?
We have already been told by the Police that The Drs Mccann are NOT suspects. Who are you referring to?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: kizzy on June 13, 2019, 02:08:21 PM
Gonçalo Amaral: 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie' to be published in English in book form Ga_pr_10 http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.com/
Wonder how this will pan out - was the injunction lifted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 13, 2019, 02:12:28 PM
What’s the hold up? There was a whole new book ready to go years ago if I recall correctly- why has it not been published in Portugal at least...?
Could be any number of reasons that we don't know about; statute of limitations, legal advice, really slow at typing. I know you're chomping at the bit to absorb the new content, but just be patient.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2019, 08:57:00 AM
That all depends on just what the McCann- Healey application is about.
Ask Davel. He knows. Whoops, sorry, Davel is absent for the moment. But then you probably don't want to know anyway. However, it is basically to do with Human Rights for all and not just for some.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 14, 2019, 09:42:52 AM
Ask Davel. He knows. Whoops, sorry, Davel is absent for the moment. But then you probably don't want to know anyway. However, it is basically to do with Human Rights for all and not just for some.
Lets get this right Davel thinks he knows, unless he's in contact with the Mccann,have you let slip and that he is?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on June 14, 2019, 09:51:36 AM
It's nothing to do with him. If the Portuguese Judiciary made a legal mistake it's their fault.
There's an almost endearing naivety in the Eleanator's statement. Supporters are so desperate to watch Amaral burn that they are blind to the facts; in this case, the judicial process.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2019, 10:16:29 AM
Lets get this right Davel thinks he knows, unless he's in contact with the Mccann,have you let slip and that he is?
That is a silly accusation, so enough of that.
Davel knows because he has searched EU Regulations pertains to Human Rights, various sections of, numbers included. You could always check Davel's posts. Or is that too much like hard work?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2019, 10:19:22 AM
There's an almost endearing naivety in the Eleanator's statement. Supporters are so desperate to watch Amaral burn that they are blind to the facts; in this case, the judicial process.
Thanks for the complement. I am indeed naive when it comes to adherence to The Rule of Law, especially in Portugal.
Portugal has made an ass of itself, and not for the first time. Sadly, lives get ruined.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 14, 2019, 11:03:58 AM
Davel knows because he has searched EU Regulations pertains to Human Rights, various sections of, numbers included. You could always check Davel's posts. Or is that too much like hard work?
He can research as much as he likes,its opinion passed off as fact until its known just what the case presented to the ECHR is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 14, 2019, 11:20:46 AM
Of course it is to do with Amaral. That's what the whole case is about. The Portuguese Judiciary backed Amaral's Rights against The McCanns Rights.
The McCanns sued Amaral for damages. They put their case to the Portuguese courts but failed to convince them. They have now complained to the ECHR about the Portuguese Judiciary. Anaral us not involved in the ECHR case at all. It's McCann and Healy v Portugal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 14, 2019, 11:54:14 AM
Oh but its much more fun to blame Amaral for everything, doncha know ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 14, 2019, 03:17:15 PM
Could be any number of reasons that we don't know about; statute of limitations, legal advice, really slow at typing. I know you're chomping at the bit to absorb the new content, but just be patient.
You haven’t suggested the most obvious reasons.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 14, 2019, 03:18:27 PM
There may be a lot more to worry him than the ECHR for all we know. He did seem to think his book was the definitive version of 'proving' his fantasies at one time ... and look what has happened to that now that the Judicial police and Scotland Yard have taken a real interest for long enough to make it apparent they've definitely got their teeth into something of substance.
We may not know what it is and the chances are he doesn't know either ... but maybe he does ... ???
But at the moment ... I agree, he should be worried about the ECHR ... maybe that's where his Ace is?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 14, 2019, 04:02:52 PM
There may be a lot more to worry him than the ECHR for all we know. He did seem to think his book was the definitive version of 'proving' his fantasies at one time ... and look what has happened to that now that the Judicial police and Scotland Yard have taken a real interest for long enough to make it apparent they've definitely got their teeth into something of substance.
We may not know what it is and the chances are he doesn't know either ... but maybe he does ... ???
But at the moment ... I agree, he should be worried about the ECHR ... maybe that's where his Ace is?
What can the echr do to him? to warrant your need and others for him to be worried?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2019, 04:08:00 PM
What can the echr do to him? to warrant your need and others for him to be worried?
In my opinion Amaral is a nothing as far as the present conduct of Madeleine's case is concerned ... but also in my opinion the facts of his self publicised conduct of Madeleine's case is much more than a nothing ... the gravity of just how much is highlighted by every day the Judicial Police and Scotland Yard spend doing what he never even attempted or apparently contemplated.
Keep this in mind for future information ... to me AMARAL = NOTHING. I have never indulged in exaggerating his failings or accusing him of false crimes ... I don't need to do that.
Would that sceptics give Madeleine's family the same ... but you and I know they do not ... so what do you think they 'need'?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on June 14, 2019, 05:46:12 PM
In my opinion Amaral is a nothing as far as the present conduct of Madeleine's case is concerned ... but also in my opinion the facts of his self publicised conduct of Madeleine's case is much more than a nothing ... the gravity of just how much is highlighted by every day the Judicial Police and Scotland Yard spend doing what he never even attempted or apparently contemplated.
Keep this in mind for future information ... to me AMARAL = NOTHING. I have never indulged in exaggerating his failings or accusing him of false crimes ... I don't need to do that.
Would that sceptics give Madeleine's family the same ... but you and I know they do not ... so what do you think they 'need'?
I couldn't agree more, Brie.
In my opinion, far bigger fish to fry than Amaral ....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 14, 2019, 05:50:06 PM
Seems there is going to be a few more chapters added - when TOTL is published in English. VS
from what I have seen its being published by Paolo reiss...who last week was asking for donations to pay his rent as his own book had been such a miserable failure... the book has already been published in english on the web
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 14, 2019, 05:57:40 PM
It's nothing to do with him. If the Portuguese Judiciary made a legal mistake it's their fault.
its everything to do with amaral...from what I have read the court will consider the evidence amaral based his thesis on...they will decide if his calims were reasonable...if the rule in favour of the mccanns then teh mccanns could go back to the portuguse court armed with the judgement....anything amaral has said since the original trial or if his book has been on sale since the original trial could be the subject of a new claim..imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 14, 2019, 06:46:31 PM
In my opinion Amaral is a nothing as far as the present conduct of Madeleine's case is concerned ... but also in my opinion the facts of his self publicised conduct of Madeleine's case is much more than a nothing ... the gravity of just how much is highlighted by every day the Judicial Police and Scotland Yard spend doing what he never even attempted or apparently contemplated.
Keep this in mind for future information ... to me AMARAL = NOTHING. I have never indulged in exaggerating his failings or accusing him of false crimes ... I don't need to do that.
Would that sceptics give Madeleine's family the same ... but you and I know they do not ... so what do you think they 'need'?
Couldn't care less,I'm emotionally as far removed from the case as one can be.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 14, 2019, 06:58:24 PM
Amaral is a total embarrassment to the Portuguese Justice System. Actually probably worse than that. But I doubt that The Portuguese Justice System wants to go down that road.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on June 14, 2019, 07:26:01 PM
Because Amaral is the face of The Portuguese Fascists, left over from The Glorious Revolution, or two.
Sorry. I am supposing that you know that there were Two Revolutions, during which time of about two years that a lot of the hierarchy reinvented themselves, and are now back in charge.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on June 14, 2019, 07:39:45 PM
Amaral is a total embarrassment to the Portuguese Justice System. Actually probably worse than that. But I doubt that The Portuguese Justice System wants to go down that road.
Shouldn't be an IMO at the end of your little rant?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on June 14, 2019, 07:41:55 PM
its everything to do with amaral...from what I have read the court will consider the evidence amaral based his thesis on...they will decide if his calims were reasonable...if the rule in favour of the mccanns then teh mccanns could go back to the portuguse court armed with the judgement....anything amaral has said since the original trial or if his book has been on sale since the original trial could be the subject of a new claim..imo
That, of course, being all your opinion. As it stands no-one knows yet if their claim will be accepted or not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 14, 2019, 10:19:05 PM
I read all of that earlier. Of course you think it is as you describe
Yep and what you can determine from it is that SY aren't telling any one diddly squat,why else would they be wanting to drag something up from 12 yrs ago,ergo nowt new.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on June 16, 2019, 01:15:01 PM
“It’s all very secret but then it always is with the Madeleine case.
“Only the police know who the suspect is.”
And they aren't talking @)(++(*
Well apart from telling all the rags ? no body I guess ^*&& It will be very interesting how this pans out...
Notice: this is not the same 'Brittish man' who was jumping into bed with children all over the place.
If it is Ney I have a feeling he didn't do it to protect an Irish blood line which is associated with jewish anscestory owing to the middle name of Maddie. WHO KNEW?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on June 22, 2019, 06:12:56 PM
@)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on June 22, 2019, 06:37:25 PM
Because in my opinion, Amaral is the face of The Portuguese Fascists, left over from The Glorious Revolution, or two.
He was a senior police officer Eleanor who earned his stripes under the old regime. One has always to remember that the PJ and the GNR are military brigades and not civil police. The PSP is the civilian police probably a cross between our own plod and a traffic warden.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on June 25, 2019, 12:29:54 PM
He was a senior police officer Eleanor who earned his stripes under the old regime. One has always to remember that the PJ and the GNR are military brigades and not civil police. The PSP is the civilian police probably a cross between our own plod and a traffic warden.
Are you sure about that, Angelo?
The GNR is military - agreed.
The PJ is part of the judiciary.
The PSP is civilian - agreed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on June 26, 2019, 08:03:53 AM
MADDIE BLOW Madeleine McCann news – Met chief Cressida Dick admits missing girl may never be found despite multimillion-pound search Mark Hodge 25 Jun 2019, 22:39Updated: 26 Jun 2019, 7:38 BRITAIN'S top cop Cressida Dick has admitted she doesn't know if the Madeleine McCann case will ever be solved.
The Metropolitan Police commissioner said it would be "fantastic" if detectives found Madeleine McCann - who vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal 12 years ago.
Met Police chief Cressida Dick has admitted she doesn't know if Madeleine McCann will ever be found 3 Met Police chief Cressida Dick has admitted she doesn't know if Madeleine McCann will ever be foundCredit: PA:Press Association But Ms Dick admitted she did not know if the multi-million pound probe would be successful and said it could be "closed" if there were no more “active lines of inquiry”.
Speaking on LBC radio on Monday, she said: “We don’t give a running commentary on this case. We frequently speak to the Portuguese police team.
–– ADVERTISEMENT ––
“We are still doing our work as best as we possibly can.”
LBC host Nick Ferrari asked: “Do you think it will ever be solved?".
She replied: “It would be fantastic if it was. I don’t know whether it will be.
“But we are carrying on. While there are still lines of inquiry we will of course continue with this.
“Once, or if, we get to a point where there are no longer active lines of inquiry then of course we will – as with all similar investigations – say, ‘Right, that one is now closed or dormant if you like.’
“If new information comes in we have it all ready to go to look at it again.’’
It would be fantastic if it was (solved). I don’t know whether it will be Met Police Chief Cressida Dick This comes after it was revealed last week that cops are closing in on a new prime suspect in the long-running case.
Portuguese police are perusing a “new clue and suspect” after talks with British officers, according to a bombshell local media report.
Correio da Manha newspaper claimed local detectives are now "nearer to knowing what happened to Madeleine”.
It comes after a tip-off over a mystery "foreign" man who was in the Algarve at the time of Maddie's disappearance in 2007.
Detectives from Scotland Yard recently met Policia Judiciaria (PJ) officers in Porto to share key information on the investigation.
A source in Portugal told The Mirror: "The British were here recently, there were talks at the PJ office in the city.
NEW PRIME SUSPECT
“It’s all very secret but then it always is with the Madeleine case.
"Only the police know who the suspect is.”
It's not clear if the suspect's whereabouts is known to detectives.
But the face-to-face meeting between British and Portuguese police is believed to be the first since the new suspect came to light.
It could be the biggest leap forward in the £12million investigation since Maddie vanished from her holiday flat at Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.
MADDIE BLOW Madeleine McCann news – Met chief Cressida Dick admits missing girl may never be found despite multimillion-pound search Mark Hodge 25 Jun 2019, 22:39Updated: 26 Jun 2019, 7:38 BRITAIN'S top cop Cressida Dick has admitted she doesn't know if the Madeleine McCann case will ever be solved.
The Metropolitan Police commissioner said it would be "fantastic" if detectives found Madeleine McCann - who vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal 12 years ago.
Met Police chief Cressida Dick has admitted she doesn't know if Madeleine McCann will ever be found 3 Met Police chief Cressida Dick has admitted she doesn't know if Madeleine McCann will ever be foundCredit: PA:Press Association But Ms Dick admitted she did not know if the multi-million pound probe would be successful and said it could be "closed" if there were no more “active lines of inquiry”.
Speaking on LBC radio on Monday, she said: “We don’t give a running commentary on this case. We frequently speak to the Portuguese police team.
–– ADVERTISEMENT ––
“We are still doing our work as best as we possibly can.”
LBC host Nick Ferrari asked: “Do you think it will ever be solved?".
She replied: “It would be fantastic if it was. I don’t know whether it will be.
“But we are carrying on. While there are still lines of inquiry we will of course continue with this.
“Once, or if, we get to a point where there are no longer active lines of inquiry then of course we will – as with all similar investigations – say, ‘Right, that one is now closed or dormant if you like.’
“If new information comes in we have it all ready to go to look at it again.’’
It would be fantastic if it was (solved). I don’t know whether it will be Met Police Chief Cressida Dick This comes after it was revealed last week that cops are closing in on a new prime suspect in the long-running case.
Portuguese police are perusing a “new clue and suspect” after talks with British officers, according to a bombshell local media report.
Correio da Manha newspaper claimed local detectives are now "nearer to knowing what happened to Madeleine”.
It comes after a tip-off over a mystery "foreign" man who was in the Algarve at the time of Maddie's disappearance in 2007.
Detectives from Scotland Yard recently met Policia Judiciaria (PJ) officers in Porto to share key information on the investigation.
A source in Portugal told The Mirror: "The British were here recently, there were talks at the PJ office in the city.
NEW PRIME SUSPECT
“It’s all very secret but then it always is with the Madeleine case.
"Only the police know who the suspect is.”
It's not clear if the suspect's whereabouts is known to detectives.
But the face-to-face meeting between British and Portuguese police is believed to be the first since the new suspect came to light.
It could be the biggest leap forward in the £12million investigation since Maddie vanished from her holiday flat at Praia da Luz on May 3, 2007.
and to think some claim to know.. tsk. It does sound like they believe she is dead. They are giving nothing away about suspects. The paps will ofcourse name and shame who they think it may be...
It will be very interesting to read when the 'archive' is reinstated by the PJ.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 29, 2019, 11:50:47 PM
and to think some claim to know.. tsk. It does sound like they believe she is dead. They are giving nothing away about suspects. The paps will ofcourse name and shame who they think it may be...
It will be very interesting to read when the 'archive' is reinstated by the PJ.
Will they make the same mistake twice?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 30, 2019, 08:59:21 AM
The T9 should have been taken away from the scene and questioned individually on that night! They should have been charged with interfering with a police investigation (using PIs to question potential witneses) And if they are as bad as you all say why were they not locked up right away and tortured for information? and a fitnup charge of child abondonment or other trumped up charge labelled t them?
The mistakes were to let the parents their PR and expensive Legal team to run the show, (IMO) and what a show it was.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 11:59:15 AM
In what way was a mistake made in the first instance.
Releasing the file has certainly shown me that the investigation wasn't really an investigation, but to me it appears more an exercise in clearing Ocean Club of blame for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 12:01:39 PM
The T9 should have been taken away from the scene and questioned individually on that night! They should have been charged with interfering with a police investigation (using PIs to question potential witneses) And if they are as bad as you all say why were they not locked up right away and tortured for information? and a fitnup charge of child abondonment or other trumped up charge labelled t them?
The mistakes were to let the parents their PR and expensive Legal team to run the show, (IMO) and what a show it was.
Yes, the PJ should have abandoned any pretence of looking for the missing child or a potential abductor and just banged up the T9 that night and interrogated them til they cracked. That would have been much better. *&^^&
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 12:03:33 PM
Yes, the PJ should have abandoned any pretence of looking for the missing child or a potential abductor and just banged up the T9 that night and interrogated them til they cracked. That would have been much better. *&^^&
I think amaral felt there was too much political interference in the PJ carrying out their normal investigation and interrogation methods.. Perhaps he was right
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 30, 2019, 12:04:03 PM
Releasing the file has certainly shown me that the investigation wasn't really an investigation, but to me it appears more an exercise in clearing Ocean Club of blame for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
In what way were the ocean club responsible? It was the parents 100% responsibility to look after their own children while they slept.
OC had various child minding services which the T9 refused to procure. And don't forget, the T9 had devised the plan to have their own childcare arrangements ie listening at the doors, long before they left the UK.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 30, 2019, 12:04:43 PM
Releasing the file has certainly shown me that the investigation wasn't really an investigation, but to me it appears more an exercise in clearing Ocean Club of blame for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Why should it be the OClubs fault,I could see that if a babysitting service was used and the babysitter went out for a few minutes leaving the children unattended.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 12:05:56 PM
In what way were the ocean club responsible? It was the parents 100% responsibility to look after their own children while they slept.
OC had various child minding services which the T9 refused to procure. And don't forget, the T9 had devised the plan to have their own childcare arrangements ie listening at the doors, long before they left the UK.
On this occasion I agree with you
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 30, 2019, 12:11:44 PM
Yes, the PJ should have abandoned any pretence of looking for the missing child or a potential abductor and just banged up the T9 that night and interrogated them til they cracked. That would have been much better. *&^^&
Well that seems to work in the UK, USA and other EU countries. Cracked? you mean told the truth, was it a missing child or an abducted child? was it throught a window or unlocked door
Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, they were on the defence from day 1.. why? no one arrested them or tortured them. The timeline shows that very clearly.
they checked every half hour? I do not believe that. No one had a phone or a watch then one had a watch...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 12:14:15 PM
Well that seems to work in the UK, USA and other EU countries. Cracked? you mean told the truth, was it a missing child or an abducted child? was it throught a window or unlocked door
Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, they were on the defence from day 1.. why? no one arrested them or tortured them. The timeline shows that very clearly.
they checked every half hour? I do not believe that. No one had a phone or a watch then one had a watch...
Let’s have a cite for calling the media before the police, there’s a good girl.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on June 30, 2019, 12:25:44 PM
Perhaps it would be an idea for us all to do that....starve him of oxygen so to speak ?
Send me to Coventry you mean? Just because you don't like being asked to back up statements such as "they called the media before the police?" What bullies you are.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 12:38:52 PM
As per forum rules I have asked you for a cite. What's pathetic about that?
This is typical... Continually crying cite but failing to provide ine when asked ...of course when it's me... A moderator dives in immediately and insists on a cite
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 12:46:01 PM
deleted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 12:46:28 PM
Yes, we could just chat amongst ourselves about important issues and ignore the supporters sniping. 8)--))
Better still, go and chat on a sceptic forum where us irritating supporters with our awkward questions are not allowed to post - it will be sheer bliss for you. 8((()*/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 12:52:47 PM
Why is asking for a cite that the parents called the media before they called the police considered "sniping"?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 30, 2019, 12:53:19 PM
They requested for the police to be called within ten minutes of Madeleine's disappearance being discovered. WEre the media called before the police as Misstaken alleges? If so you can provide the cite as she refuses to do so.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 12:56:08 PM
Yes, the PJ should have abandoned any pretence of looking for the missing child or a potential abductor and just banged up the T9 that night and interrogated them til they cracked. That would have been much better. *&^^&
That would have never happened IMO as the PJ would have had to get out of bed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 30, 2019, 12:57:28 PM
That's because the McCanns didn't call the police.
They didn't call the police by putting their fingers in the dialling ring but they requested the police to be called within ten minutes of Madeleine's disappearance. They did this before any media were called. Now prove me wrong. You can't because you don't have a cite.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 30, 2019, 01:08:52 PM
They didn't call the police by putting their fingers in the dialling ring but they requested the police to be called within ten minutes of Madeleine's disappearance. They did this before any media were called. Now prove me wrong. You can't because you don't have a cite.
You're the one making the claim, it's up to you to provide the cite.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 01:10:49 PM
You're the one making the claim, it's up to you to provide the cite.
No, Miss Taken is the one making the claim and I've asked for a cite but she says I'm playing pathetic games. I love the way y'all gang up and make out as if it's me who's made the bogus claim, nice work pack animals!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 30, 2019, 01:11:36 PM
No mention in either of their 4th May statements about requesting the police.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 01:12:36 PM
and he went to the main reception and asked for the police to be called.
was this immediatly? Kate tells them MBM is missing- Fiona tells Mat to go directly to reception to call the police OR did all the tapas ,bar Diane, go straight to the apartments to search for missing- not abducted Maddie? *%87
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on June 30, 2019, 01:33:45 PM
and he went to the main reception and asked for the police to be called.
VS claims the McCanns requested the police be called within ten minutes of Madeleine's disappearance. There's not a great deal of evidence to support his assertion however.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 01:44:33 PM
was this immediatly? Kate tells them MBM is missing- Fiona tells Mat to go directly to reception to call the police OR did all the tapas ,bar Diane, go straight to the apartments to search for missing- not abducted Maddie? *%87
Look I can't imagine Kate asking for anything else than for the police to be called immediately. If the others decided to look first before calling the Police that needs to be assessed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on June 30, 2019, 02:37:03 PM
Actions speak louder than words!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 02:52:53 PM
VS claims the McCanns requested the police be called within ten minutes of Madeleine's disappearance. There's not a great deal of evidence to support his assertion however.
Miss Taken claimed that the media were called before the police. There is NO evidence to support it but I don’t suppose you care about the truth really.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 02:54:00 PM
was this immediatly? Kate tells them MBM is missing- Fiona tells Mat to go directly to reception to call the police OR did all the tapas ,bar Diane, go straight to the apartments to search for missing- not abducted Maddie? *%87
You have misled the forum with your comment regarding calling the media before the police. Care to retract or are you fine to leave your unevidenced propaganda on the forum?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 30, 2019, 04:04:43 PM
They requested for the police to be called within ten minutes of Madeleine's disappearance being discovered. WEre the media called before the police as Misstaken alleges? If so you can provide the cite as she refuses to do so.
AFAIK, there is no evidence that they ever requested that the police should be called.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 30, 2019, 04:09:38 PM
AFAIK, there is no evidence that they ever requested that the police should be called.
Kate claims in her book that just after ten past ten Gerry asked Matt to run to reception to ask them to call the police. Page 95 paperback edition. Is there any evidence the media were called before the police? You seem cool with that allegation....?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 30, 2019, 04:20:49 PM
Kate claims in her book that just after ten past ten Gerry asked Matt to run to reception to ask them to call the police. Page 95 paperback edition. Is there any evidence the media were called before the police? You seem cool with that allegation....?
As another claim was made in the rogatories, I don't intend spending significant time on this.
If you can actually quote what was said in p95 of the paperback edition, I will try to find it in my hardback edition. It doesn't get fairer than that, does it?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 30, 2019, 04:27:46 PM
As another claim was made in the rogatories, I don't intend spending significant time on this.
If you can actually quote what was said in p95 of the paperback edition, I will try to find it in my hardback edition. It doesn't get fairer than that, does it?
I pretty much have quoted it word for word. Why are you challenging my claim and not the claim made about the media being called first?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on June 30, 2019, 04:35:45 PM
Somebody had to do it,MO says he thinks Fiona asked him to phone the police.
Many thanks.
I caught up with this when I read the rest of the thread after posting. My days of trying to read through the whole of the remaining thread before going back to a key point have long since gone.
*&(+(+
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 30, 2019, 04:40:46 PM
What’s that got to do with Miss Taken’s contention that the media were called before the police? You don’t seem remotely interested in questioning her allegation - may I ask why not?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 06:22:50 PM
What’s that got to do with Miss Taken’s contention that the media were called before the police? You don’t seem remotely interested in questioning her allegation - may I ask why not?
For the simple reason that I know when the police were called, and I have a fair idea of when the media were 'called'.
Question - Did the McCanns call the police?
Answer - Nope.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 06:25:07 PM
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on June 30, 2019, 06:42:05 PM
I'm going to start issuing penalties shortly if the goading continues. Surely it's not beyond the bounds of intelligent members to debate without arguing or criticising others?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 30, 2019, 06:43:31 PM
I'm going to start issuing penalties shortly if the goading continues. Surely it's not beyond the bounds of intelligent members to debate without arguing or criticising others?
Can I ask why you removed my post and not Faithlilly’s two goading posts?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 30, 2019, 06:51:21 PM
yes it is...why should you ask me to provide a cite for something I havent claimed....please explain
I have NOT asked anyone for a cite today, so kindly calm down.
I HAVE pointed out that your version of events is NOT as per the witness statements.
Simple.
The nearby wasps nest has now been removed. I now need to get my doggie out for a perambulation in the cool of the evening. Before I cook large prawns for us, and pork or turkey for Gonçalo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 07:05:50 PM
I have NOT asked anyone for a cite today, so kindly calm down.
I HAVE pointed out that your version of events is NOT as per the witness statements.
Simple.
The nearby wasps nest has now been removed. I now need to get my doggie out for a perambulation in the cool of the evening. Before I cook large prawns for us, and pork or turkey for Gonçalo.
you have pointed out nothing as usual
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 07:08:02 PM
I have NOT asked anyone for a cite today, so kindly calm down.
I HAVE pointed out that your version of events is NOT as per the witness statements.
Simple.
The nearby wasps nest has now been removed. I now need to get my doggie out for a perambulation in the cool of the evening. Before I cook large prawns for us, and pork or turkey for Gonçalo.
it was only half an hour ago that you posted this to me...
Perhaps you would be good enough to supply the evidence that the rogs show that MO arranged his non-call to the police upon Gerry's instructions?
that looks like a cite request to me
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 08:25:46 PM
You have misled the forum with your comment regarding calling the media before the police. Care to retract or are you fine to leave your unevidenced propaganda on the forum?
\
Which post from MTI are you referring to?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 08:31:57 PM
Well that seems to work in the UK, USA and other EU countries. Cracked? you mean told the truth, was it a missing child or an abducted child? was it throught a window or unlocked door
Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, they were on the defence from day 1.. why? no one arrested them or tortured them. The timeline shows that very clearly.
they checked every half hour? I do not believe that. No one had a phone or a watch then one had a watch...
a cite was requested for the point in red.....miss refused
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 08:33:49 PM
To save me agonising hours of re-reading that, does he claim the McCanns requested him to arrange such a call?
From memory, the answer is no.
Sometimes I do wish the PJ had asked Kate a few more questions before they made her an arguido.
You would think that a person that is saying "they've taken her" would automatically say "call the police", but you are right there are those that report what she says but no one says "Kate said ring the police".
The nearest was when John Hill turned up and Kate said to him "where are the police". Which can only mean she had expected the police to have turned up by then.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 08:38:52 PM
”Just after ten past ten, Gerry asked Matt to run to the Ocean Club’s twenty-four-hour reception to get the staff to call the police” Happy now?
Funny you refuse to demand a cite from Miss Taken, any reason why not?
We will get around to Miss Taken. But what concerns me if Gerry asked Matt to go to reception why didn't he do it without consulting Fiona and the others first?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 08:39:03 PM
this one Quote from: Miss Taken Identity on Today at 12:11:44 PM
Well that seems to work in the UK, USA and other EU countries. Cracked? you mean told the truth, was it a missing child or an abducted child? was it throught a window or unlocked door
Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, they were on the defence from day 1.. why? no one arrested them or tortured them. The timeline shows that very clearly.
they checked every half hour? I do not believe that. No one had a phone or a watch then one had a watch...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 08:41:02 PM
We will get around to Miss Taken. But what concerns me if Gerry asked Matt to go to reception why didn't he do it without consulting Fiona and the others first?
lets see if you honour your promise...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 08:42:15 PM
And why do you need to do that? Do you mot trust me to be telling the truth?
There are more than one edition of Kate's book. It is possible the wording is different. Rather than saying hardback or soft cover the actual edition number was used.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 08:46:19 PM
I find gerry checking the blind could be opened from the outside quite significant in supporting the mccanns innocence
I find it the opposite. He could have used any shutter in the house as did Fiona to see what shutters can do. Do the utmost to preserve the forensic evidence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 08:47:12 PM
I find it the opposite. He could have used any shutter in the house as did Fiona to see what shutters can do. Do the utmost to preserve the forensic evidence.
then we disagree...no surprise there
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 08:50:10 PM
We will get around to Miss Taken. But what concerns me if Gerry asked Matt to go to reception why didn't he do it without consulting Fiona and the others first?
I am going to insist you kep your promise
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 08:50:47 PM
it was only half an hour ago that you posted this to me...
Perhaps you would be good enough to supply the evidence that the rogs show that MO arranged his non-call to the police upon Gerry's instructions?
that looks like a cite request to me
Make it clear if it is a cite request or not. I don't believe you can ask for a cite request using the words you have as they are not from SIL. Quote SIL and then ask for a cite request.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 08:57:04 PM
Well that seems to work in the UK, USA and other EU countries. Cracked? you mean told the truth, was it a missing child or an abducted child? was it throught a window or unlocked door
Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, they were on the defence from day 1.. why? no one arrested them or tortured them. The timeline shows that very clearly.
they checked every half hour? I do not believe that. No one had a phone or a watch then one had a watch...
Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, I don't read that as a direct accusation but MTI 's opinion that Calling the media before the police is never a great idea,.
Does MTI ever claim it was a fact?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 09:04:29 PM
Why should it be the OClubs fault,I could see that if a babysitting service was used and the babysitter went out for a few minutes leaving the children unattended.
They were fully aware it was happening, and profiting from the business going on.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on June 30, 2019, 09:07:17 PM
Why should it be the OClubs fault,I could see that if a babysitting service was used and the babysitter went out for a few minutes leaving the children unattended.
Hardly. If that happened the child would be right there to be found. What does a teacher do if a child walks out of the class?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on June 30, 2019, 09:09:42 PM
As per forum rules I have asked you for a cite. What's pathetic about that?
Hold it. You don't seem to be asking for a cite for the actual words used, but rather your interpretation of the words used. Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, is the phrase that was pointed out to me and that appears to be an opinion not a fact.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on June 30, 2019, 09:16:17 PM
Hold it. You don't seem to be asking for a cite for the actual words used, but rather your interpretation of the words used. Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, is the phrase that was pointed out to me and that appears to be an opinion not a fact.
theres only one interpretation of those words in the context they were used...that is criticism of the mccanns for doing just that...what other interpretation is there
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 09:26:44 PM
Perhaps you would be good enough to supply the evidence that the rogs show that MO arranged his non-call to the police upon Gerry's instructions?
that looks like a cite request to me
It isn't worded the way I would want a cite request. It has to be in clear. "Please provide a cite showing ....." Not "Perhaps you would be good enough to supply the evidence ...." It is just not clear enough.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 09:27:51 PM
Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, I don't read that as a direct accusation but MTI 's opinion that Calling the media before the police is never a great idea,.
Does MTI ever claim it was a fact?
@)(++(* I give up, really this place is a Mad House.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 09:33:16 PM
theres only one interpretation of those words in the context they were used...that is criticism of the mccanns for doing just that...what other interpretation is there
But it is an opinion not a claim of fact, even if you interpret it as a fact.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on June 30, 2019, 09:36:09 PM
it might not be to you because you are obviously biased against me .. You told me you never tell a lie so dont tell one to yourself
Look TBH I've always struggled with MTI's posts for the wording is so clever. Never statements of fact but full of challenging opinions. It is not a lie but a fact.
Why was she allowed to write it without putting IMO then?
I read every post (almost every post) and I assess whether I consider it opinion or fact. It depends on how it is phrased, I have not insisted on IMO even though I do continue using the "IMO" a lot.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on June 30, 2019, 09:44:34 PM
Look TBH I've always struggled with MTI's posts for the wording is so clever. Never statements of fact but full of challenging opinions. It is not a lie but a fact.
I read every post (almost every post) and I assess whether I consider it opinion or fact. It depends on how it is phrased, I have not insisted on IMO even though I do continue using the "IMO" a lot.
What if someone's opinion is based on an untruth?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on June 30, 2019, 09:52:17 PM
Releasing the file has certainly shown me that the investigation wasn't really an investigation, but to me it appears more an exercise in clearing Ocean Club of blame for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
In my opinion the PJ did an amazing job. They gathered a huge amount of information which allows us to understand the setting in which the events took place. Without their hard work there's so much we wouldn't know. I find it amazing that the UK police failed completely to do the same job with the holidaymakers who returned to the UK. Every single one of them should have been interviewed too in my opinion. Who knows what information we would have if they had been? We would have known what everyone did that week, we would have known where everyone was on 3rd.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on July 01, 2019, 07:36:11 AM
Why is it OK iyo to poke fun at Rob's religious beliefs?
If Rob is going to try and impose his beliefs on us..... As he has by telling me I should learn from Jesus... I have the right to give my view that it is claptrap
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 01, 2019, 08:06:27 AM
Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, I don't read that as a direct accusation but MTI 's opinion that Calling the media before the police is never a great idea,.
Does MTI ever claim it was a fact?
Great. So we’re all agreed then. Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, and as the media were not called before the police this is definitely one criticism that categorically cannot be levelled at the McCanns. Sorted!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 01, 2019, 08:54:45 AM
Great. So we’re all agreed then. Calling the media before the police is never a great idea, and as the media were not called before the police this is definitely one criticism that categorically cannot be levelled at the McCanns. Sorted!
You're right, it's sorted. You manage to wangle an affirmation out of a forum member. 2 Wangle Points added.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 01, 2019, 09:05:09 AM
Why is it OK iyo to poke fun at Rob's religious beliefs?
I was more worried about Davel, I'm fine. He was pleading for my help but I didn't come. That's quite a change really. When I get up in the morning I start reading the forum clicking "new" from the oldest new post to the most recent. It is just a habit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 01, 2019, 10:42:45 AM
If Rob is going to try and impose his beliefs on us..... As he has by telling me I should learn from Jesus... I have the right to give my view that it is claptrap
Impose? What does impose mean? Is it more than suggest? Have you ever tried learning from Jesus? That is just about a copyright-able phrase Davel. That is a mighty thought in my book.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 01, 2019, 10:43:42 AM
I was more worried about Davel, I'm fine. He was pleading for my help but I didn't come. That's quite a change really. When I get up in the morning I start reading the forum clicking "new" from the oldest new post to the most recent. It is just a habit.
I wasn't pleading fir your help at all.. You've made an incorrect assumption... I was highlighting what I see as your bias... I made an important point IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 01, 2019, 10:47:18 AM
Impose? What does impose mean? Is it more than suggest? Have you ever tried learning from Jesus? That is just about a copyright-able phrase Davel. That is a mighty thought in my book.
If you ask me to learn from Jesus you are asking me to accept his, existence.... I don't believe he ever existed.. I was brought up aChristian and rejected it. I watched an interesting debate between Richard Dawkins and Cardinal Pell... What an evil man the Christian was found to be by the courts ...but Dawkins the aetheist... A real gentleman
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 01, 2019, 10:51:42 AM
It's a shame posters.. Particularly mods... Can't focus on proper debate and continually resort to personal criticism
Think about it Davel. I'm suppose to forgive those who trespass against me, maybe I'm just a bit slow. I find forgiveness the most difficult thing to do.
I wasn't pleading fir your help at all.. You've made an incorrect assumption... I was highlighting what I see as your bias... I made an important point IMO
Weren't you talking about ".... and continually resort to personal criticism". Howabout you setting the example of being one who does not ever resort to personal criticism?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 01, 2019, 10:53:39 AM
Think about it Davel. I'm suppose to forgive those who trespass against me, maybe I'm just a bit slow. I find forgiveness the most difficult thing to do. Weren't you talking about ".... and continually resort to personal criticism". Howabout you setting the example of being one who does not ever resort to personal criticism?
I was replying to your post making an incorrect assumption Re myself
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 01, 2019, 10:57:12 AM
If you ask me to learn from Jesus you are asking me to accept his, existence.... I don't believe he ever existed.. I was brought up aChristian and rejected it. I watched an interesting debate between Richard Dawkins and Cardinal Pell... What an evil man the Christian was found to be by the courts ...but Dawkins the aetheist... A real gentleman
I'm surprised KM has such strong faith given her background in science.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on July 01, 2019, 11:16:22 AM
Moderation
I have this morning instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum. This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease. Posters who continue to flaunt the rules despite this warning will be subject to a ban without further notice.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on July 01, 2019, 11:25:22 AM
If you are hurt by what I say that'd your decision... That's from Buddha... I'm not expecting you to accept that but that's the way I work
I once had a girlfriend who was a Buddhist, but I must admit I don't know too much about the Buddhist philosophy myself. As John said "sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease", well here's to becoming a true Buddhist.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on July 01, 2019, 11:42:44 AM
I once had a girlfriend who was a Buddhist, but I must admit I don't know too much about the Buddhist philosophy myself. As John said "sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease", well here's to becoming a true Buddhist.
Being a Buddhist means you don't let the sniping and name calling hurt you... If posters want to insult me that's fine.. I'm not at all bothered... But I like to point out the unfairness involved... Buddhism is the only atheistic religion..
I'm interested in angels.... Common throughout many religions and therefore a uniting force rather than a dividing force... In Buddhism we have the Chinese Angel..Guan Yin.. I'm just about to have a cup of Guan Yin tea
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 01, 2019, 12:09:19 PM
Everyone brought up in Liverpool in that era had little choice.
My husband was of Irish Catholic stock. He attended church on Sundays because the priest came to his school every Monday morning to cross examine those who hadn't attended.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 01, 2019, 12:41:30 PM
My husband was of Irish Catholic stock. He attended church on Sundays because the priest came to his school every Monday morning to cross examine those who hadn't attended.
Exactly. We used to go to the church, grab a leaflet, check what colour frock he had on and legged it down to the shop with the money that was meant for the collection box.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 01, 2019, 12:52:19 PM
Exactly. We used to go to the church, grab a leaflet, check what colour frock he had on and legged it down to the shop with the money that was meant for the collection box.
Are you a supporter or a sceptic as regards the McCann case?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 01, 2019, 12:55:37 PM
Exactly. We used to go to the church, grab a leaflet, check what colour frock he had on and legged it down to the shop with the money that was meant for the collection box.
@)(++(*
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 01, 2019, 06:13:17 PM
Desperation... Although there are, scientists who are religious
More than you would imagine.
Humanist are a lot like Buddhist in some respect. It is a lovely religion.
It is not that surprising Kate needed the presence of a priest, I believe there was maybe a guilt factor.
The pope visit that was a staged -almost presedential visit-IMO the fear was there ,of them becoming hate figures, losing jobs/careers and maybe short term prison for neglect. They became untouchable.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on July 01, 2019, 06:21:33 PM
Humanist are a lot like Buddhist in some respect. It is a lovely religion.
It is not that surprising Kate needed the presence of a priest, I believe there was maybe a guilt factor.
The pope visit that was a staged -almost presedential visit-IMO the fear was there ,of them becoming hate figures, losing jobs/careers and maybe short term prison for neglect. They became untouchable.
The pope thing puzzles me. Why was such a big thing made of it ? I’m not a catholic but attended a papal audience when in Rome. Anyone who attended could have gone up to be blessed by him....it was also much more intimate than the parents meeting with the supreme pontiff.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on July 01, 2019, 06:21:53 PM
Humanist are a lot like Buddhist in some respect. It is a lovely religion.
It is not that surprising Kate needed the presence of a priest, I believe there was maybe a guilt factor.
The pope visit that was a staged -almost presedential visit-IMO the fear was there ,of them becoming hate figures, losing jobs/careers and maybe short term prison for neglect. They became untouchable.
Is that the " lovely religion" which is responsible for the persecution and genocide of Muslims in Myanmar?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on July 01, 2019, 06:33:56 PM
Humanist are a lot like Buddhist in some respect. It is a lovely religion.
It is not that surprising Kate needed the presence of a priest, I believe there was maybe a guilt factor.
The pope visit that was a staged -almost presedential visit-IMO the fear was there ,of them becoming hate figures, losing jobs/careers and maybe short term prison for neglect. They became untouchable.
All in your opinion of course?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 01, 2019, 06:34:14 PM
The pope thing puzzles me. Why was such a big thing made of it ? I’m not a catholic but attended a papal audience when in Rome. Anyone who attended could have gone up to be blessed by him....it was also much more intimate than the parents meeting with the supreme pontiff.
Are you suggesting that any old Tom, Dick or Lilly can get an intimate audience with His Magnificent Popeness when ever they fancy?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on July 01, 2019, 06:42:47 PM
I was referring to the religion- the philosophy of self enlightement ect.
AND muslims, Roman Catholics don't kill. maim, murder, or commit atrocities in the name of their 'gods' invisible man in sky?
It would have been less of a prejudiced post if you had said Christians rather than specifying only the Roman Catholic faith but to be expected! In my opinion of course. Of course all religions have committed atrocities, much against the intrinsic beliefs of their faith. Buddhists are no exception!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on July 01, 2019, 06:47:46 PM
Are you suggesting that any old Tom, Dick or Lilly can get an intimate audience with His Magnificent Popeness when ever they fancy?
The McCanns were given an 'almost Presedential Visit". Welcomed personally by the Pope in the Vatican, the exchange of gifts, the quiet private meeting???? I believe I saw them in a long line of people waiting outside to meet and greet the Pope?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on July 01, 2019, 06:53:45 PM
The McCanns were given an 'almost Presedential Visit". Welcomed personally by the Pope in the Vatican, the exchange of gifts, the quiet private meeting???? I believe I saw them in a long line of people waiting outside to meet and greet the Pope?
Perhaps you have a different version of Kate's book than I have?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on July 01, 2019, 06:54:55 PM
It would have been less of a prejudiced post if you had said Christians rather than specifying only the Roman Catholic faith but to be expected! In my opinion of course. Of course all religions have committed atrocities, much against the intrinsic beliefs of their faith. Buddhists are no exception!
You reminded me of a quote from the late, great Christopher Hitchens “Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on July 01, 2019, 07:04:33 PM
You reminded me of a quote from the late, great Christopher Hitchens “Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.”
And Stalin's excuse for his barbarity was?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Erngath on July 01, 2019, 07:05:17 PM
Are you suggesting that any old Tom, Dick or Lilly can get an intimate audience with His Magnificent Popeness when ever they fancy?
Not an intimate audience. There was about 200 of us from all over the world. It was all rather surreal as he was greeted like Elvis with everyone whooping and hollering. One cardinal was even drinking from a badly concealed flask. All very odd.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 01, 2019, 07:37:59 PM
Not an intimate audience. There was about 200 of us from all over the world. It was all rather surreal as he was greeted like Elvis with everyone whooping and hollering. One cardinal was even drinking from a badly concealed flask. All very odd.
At least it was only alcohol he was abusing
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on July 01, 2019, 07:41:24 PM
A skewed sense of socialism, from what I recall. Not you, Stalin.
I believe that there are those who will always find a reason to hate. They might find that reason for hate to be in religion,.race, sexual orientation, class....But find that reason....They will do.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 01, 2019, 08:01:51 PM
A skewed sense of socialism, from what I recall. Not you, Stalin.
He wasn't too keen on religious leaders either- he slaughtered millions. Socialism at it best some report! I use that argument when I get bogged down with being accused of being a fascist and nazis blah blah, but find these self same people hold up to socialism as if it is a better way. It Isn't!
"They might find that reason for hate to be in religion,.race, sexual orientation, class....But find that reason....They will do."
Indeed, and those who fiollow and give financial aid play no hand in this hatred they pass on as love?
"Christopher Hitchens “Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.”
a man after my own heart and sadly missed- great debator.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on July 01, 2019, 11:46:31 PM
Not Benedict XVI, was it ? Now didn't he resign because of some persistent rumours?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 04, 2019, 12:22:56 AM
Virginia police believe they've found the remains of missing 2-year-old Noah Tomlin
By Jason Hanna and Carma Hassan, CNN July 3, 2019
Remains believed to be those of a missing 2-year-old Virginia boy were found Wednesday morning in a steam plant that converts trash to energy, ending days of searching in a case where the boy's mother is charged in his disappearance, police said.
The remains, suspected to be Noah Tomlin's, were found at the city-owned steam plant in Hampton just before 9 a.m., nine days after his mother reported him missing from their Hampton mobile home, Hampton Police Chief Terry Sult said.
The plant is where city waste goes to burn. The combustion interacts with a water supply, creating steam that is piped to the nearby NASA Langley Research Center, which uses the steam for power.
City police officers -- suspecting the boy's body may have been taken to the plant or a landfill -- spent days sifting through about 2 million pounds of garbage by hand, Sult said.
The remains were not incinerated, said Sult, who declined to otherwise describe the remains' condition or say how they arrived at the plant.
A medical examiner will examine the remains for formal identification, he said.
"Make no mistake: This has taken a toll on our community and our first responders," Sult told reporters Wednesday afternoon. "It will take time for all involved to recover and to heal."
The mother was arrested four days after she reported the boy missing
The investigation began June 24 when the boy's mother, Julia Leanna Tomlin, reported him missing. She initially said her son was last seen when he was put to bed around 1 a.m.; she reported him missing that day at 11:36 a.m., Sult said.
Initially, police said no explanation was being ruled out, including the chance he walked away.
But on Friday, Julia Tomlin, 34, was arrested on three counts of felony child neglect in connection with the boy's disappearance, police said without elaborating.
Investigators still are trying to determine how Noah died, Sult said.
Prosecutors will determine whether more charges will be filed in the case, the chief said. Asked whether anyone else would be arrested, Sult said Wednesday: "We're not excluding anything."
Officers picked through trash in awful conditions
Sult didn't say why investigators started searching the landfill and the steam plant, except that "information gained through the investigation helped focus the search efforts."
City police officers waded through trash in terrible conditions for days, the chief said.
"You're dealing with conditions that are high humidity, high temperature. In this case, at the steam plant, they're in a confined space," Sult said.
Firefighters monitored carbon dioxide and methane levels while officers searched, and called the officers back when the levels rose too high.
"When you get into that and you smell the odors and you're in the midst of everything, then you realize what you're there for, and you're going through literally millions of pounds of garbage," Sult said. "It takes tolls."
Virginia police believe they've found the remains of missing 2-year-old Noah Tomlin
By Jason Hanna and Carma Hassan, CNN July 3, 2019
Remains believed to be those of a missing 2-year-old Virginia boy were found Wednesday morning in a steam plant that converts trash to energy, ending days of searching in a case where the boy's mother is charged in his disappearance, police said.
The remains, suspected to be Noah Tomlin's, were found at the city-owned steam plant in Hampton just before 9 a.m., nine days after his mother reported him missing from their Hampton mobile home, Hampton Police Chief Terry Sult said.
The plant is where city waste goes to burn. The combustion interacts with a water supply, creating steam that is piped to the nearby NASA Langley Research Center, which uses the steam for power.
City police officers -- suspecting the boy's body may have been taken to the plant or a landfill -- spent days sifting through about 2 million pounds of garbage by hand, Sult said.
The remains were not incinerated, said Sult, who declined to otherwise describe the remains' condition or say how they arrived at the plant.
A medical examiner will examine the remains for formal identification, he said.
"Make no mistake: This has taken a toll on our community and our first responders," Sult told reporters Wednesday afternoon. "It will take time for all involved to recover and to heal."
The mother was arrested four days after she reported the boy missing
The investigation began June 24 when the boy's mother, Julia Leanna Tomlin, reported him missing. She initially said her son was last seen when he was put to bed around 1 a.m.; she reported him missing that day at 11:36 a.m., Sult said.
Initially, police said no explanation was being ruled out, including the chance he walked away.
But on Friday, Julia Tomlin, 34, was arrested on three counts of felony child neglect in connection with the boy's disappearance, police said without elaborating.
Investigators still are trying to determine how Noah died, Sult said.
Prosecutors will determine whether more charges will be filed in the case, the chief said. Asked whether anyone else would be arrested, Sult said Wednesday: "We're not excluding anything."
Officers picked through trash in awful conditions
Sult didn't say why investigators started searching the landfill and the steam plant, except that "information gained through the investigation helped focus the search efforts."
City police officers waded through trash in terrible conditions for days, the chief said.
"You're dealing with conditions that are high humidity, high temperature. In this case, at the steam plant, they're in a confined space," Sult said.
Firefighters monitored carbon dioxide and methane levels while officers searched, and called the officers back when the levels rose too high.
"When you get into that and you smell the odors and you're in the midst of everything, then you realize what you're there for, and you're going through literally millions of pounds of garbage," Sult said. "It takes tolls."
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on July 04, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
Fauvrelle family were in house when pregnant woman killed Mother and siblings woken by screams, police say after announcing baby’s death Mattha Busby Wed 3 Jul 2019
A woman in the advanced stages of her pregnancy was stabbed to death in her bedroom with her entire family in the home, Scotland Yard has announced.
Her baby son, who was named Riley by the family after being delivered by paramedics via a caesarean section at the scene, died in hospital early on Wednesday morning.
Kelly Mary Fauvrelle, 26, was eight months pregnant when she was murdered at her home in Raymead Avenue, Thornton Heath, in south London, in the early hours of Saturday morning.
Riley’s father, who did not live with Fauvrelle, was with him when he died on Wednesday and is not being treated as a suspect at this stage, according to the force.
As part of what police said was a “fast-paced” and “extremely challenging investigation”, CCTV footage was released by the Met on Wednesday showing a possible suspect wearing light-coloured clothing, including what appears to be a hooded top, walking towards the address at 3.11am before sprinting away towards Colliers Water Lane, just off the high street, about 10 minutes later.
Two men have been arrested on suspicion of murder. One, aged 37, was released with no further action, and a second, aged 29, has been released on bail until early August.
The MP for Croydon North, Steve Reed, said during prime minister’s questions on Wednesday: “The police now believe this may have been a random attack by someone unknown to the family.”
In response, Theresa May said: “We were all shocked when we saw this terrible act.”
The force are appealing for anyone who may know the potential suspect to contact them, while officers retain an open mind as to whether Fauvrelle’s attacker was known to her.
DCI Mick Norman said: “We need to identify the man shown in the footage urgently, even if only to eliminate him from our inquiries. I need to hear from anyone who knows who he is. If this is you, it is imperative that you contact my team immediately.”
He explained how the Royal Mail worker’s family heard her screams at about 3.30am, alerting them to the attack. However, when Fauvrelle’s sister entered the ground-floor room there was no one else there.
“It was a savage and sustained attack on a clearly and obviously heavily pregnant woman, which has had catastrophic results,” Norman said. “She has suffered from multiple stab wounds. When the family got into her room, she was clearly critically injured.”
He said Fauvrelle’s whole family – her mother, two brothers, as well as her sister and the sister’s baby son – were in the house but none of them witnessed the attack, while the murder weapon, which could be a kitchen knife, has yet to be found.
“The attack took place in Kelly’s bedroom on the ground floor and at the rear of the premises … In terms of access there is a communal passageway and potentially the obvious access point would be through the kitchen,” he said. “There is no sign of a forced entry but that does not mean, through accident, the premises were insecure.”
A dedicated team of detectives are working “day and night” to develop a detailed picture of Fauvrelle’s life in order to find the person responsible for her death.
“What is very clear is she was very happy to be pregnant,” Norman said. “She was very much looking forward to being a mother. She was popular but also a very private person.”
He explained that police and paramedics did “everything they possibly could to try to save Kelly’s life” but they delivered the baby when it became clear they were going to be unsuccessful. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/03/kelly-mary-fauvrelle-family-in-house-when-pregnant-woman-killed?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZGF5cy0xOTA3MDQ%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&CMP=GTUK_email
Someone entered Kelly Mary's home and stabbed her to death ... unseen by anyone, apparently not even the CCTV camera. Snip “The police now believe this may have been a random attack by someone unknown to the family.”
The police don't seem to have much to go on since it appears the attacker left little behind except devastation. Certainly no murder weapon nor sign of a forced entry.
One thing we can rely on though is that the police will not pick a suspect or two and embark on a press campaign against them and expect it to be considered
acceptable behaviour to be tolerated in a justice system
or legal behaviour with the slightest chance of standing up in court
If Kelly Mary's screams had not wakened her family her murder would not have been discovered until they were up and about in the morning. Even with a house full of people, there were no witnesses and the murderer was able to make good his escape.
But whatever the circumstances of Kelly Mary's death it has to be accepted that there are deviants out there who have no qualms about taking chances to achieve their ends ... I think the thought of that is something that should be borne in mind by those who delight in excoriating Madeleine McCann's friends and family with the hatefulness unleashed against them on every day that has passed for over the past twelve years.
Snip He said Fauvrelle’s whole family – her mother, two brothers, as well as her sister and the sister’s baby son – were in the house but none of them witnessed the attack, while the murder weapon, which could be a kitchen knife, has yet to be found.
“The attack took place in Kelly’s bedroom on the ground floor and at the rear of the premises … In terms of access there is a communal passageway and potentially the obvious access point would be through the kitchen,” he said. “There is no sign of a forced entry but that does not mean, through accident, the premises were insecure.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 04, 2019, 10:11:17 AM
This case is utterly sickening and depressing. So sad.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 04, 2019, 10:15:35 AM
Call me racist if you like but I bet her assailant is black.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 04, 2019, 10:16:39 AM
The police don't seem to have much to go on since it appears the attacker left little behind except devastation. Certainly no murder weapon nor sign of a forced entry.
One thing we can rely on though is that the police will not pick a suspect or two and embark on a press campaign against them and expect it to be considered
acceptable behaviour to be tolerated in a justice system
or legal behaviour with the slightest chance of standing up in court
If Kelly Mary's screams had not wakened her family her murder would not have been discovered until they were up and about in the morning. Even with a house full of people, there were no witnesses and the murderer was able to make good his escape.
But whatever the circumstances of Kelly Mary's death it has to be accepted that there are deviants out there who have no qualms about taking chances to achieve their ends ... I think the thought of that is something that should be borne in mind by those who delight in excoriating Madeleine McCann's friends and family with the hatefulness unleashed against them on every day that has passed for over the past twelve years.
I think you need to have a word with yourself, using this savage attack to somehow support your views on the treatment of the McCann's.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on July 04, 2019, 02:47:01 PM
I think you need to have a word with yourself, using this savage attack to somehow support your views on the treatment of the McCann's.
A random intruder who the police believe may have been a stranger entered Kelly Mary's home without leaving sign of a forced entry, murdered her and ultimately her baby son while her entire family slept around her.
The only proactive timeline of relevance that I can see there is the murderers.
It can be speculated that the man seen on the CCTV footage approaching the house then running away from it ten minutes later ... and certainly the police would like to speak to him ... might be able to fill in the gaps.
That is the bare outline of what happened in the last minutes of Kelly Mary's life before an intruder took it from her and her son.
The lesson to be learned as far as those following Madeleine's story are concerned is that random evil acts which are beyond understanding are carried out by evil people and the evil which befell Madeleine is by no stretch of the imagination something which is either mysterious or unique.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on July 04, 2019, 06:06:05 PM
A random intruder who the police believe may have been a stranger entered Kelly Mary's home without leaving sign of a forced entry, murdered her and ultimately her baby son while her entire family slept around her.
The only proactive timeline of relevance that I can see there is the murderers.
It can be speculated that the man seen on the CCTV footage approaching the house then running away from it ten minutes later ... and certainly the police would like to speak to him ... might be able to fill in the gaps.
That is the bare outline of what happened in the last minutes of Kelly Mary's life before an intruder took it from her and her son.
The lesson to be learned as far as those following Madeleine's story are concerned is that random evil acts which are beyond understanding are carried out by evil people and the evil which befell Madeleine is by no stretch of the imagination something which is either mysterious or unique.
And lest we forget, children are tens of times more likely to be harmed by a family member than a random stranger.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 04, 2019, 06:23:02 PM
And lest we forget, children are tens of times more likely to be harmed by a family member than a random stranger.
Mibbe so ... and in Kelly Mary's home at the time she and her son were murdered by a knifeman, there were plenty of them about ... her mother, two brothers, as well as her sister and the sister’s baby son.
But it seems someone went to the bother of entering the premises from outside to carry out the murder just as it seems someone entered the McCann apartment to kidnap Madeleine.
At the moment in Kelly Mary's case it seems the police are indeed going with a random stranger ... just in much the same way that the Judicial Police and Scotland Yard have been looking for an abductor in Madeleine's case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 04, 2019, 06:41:11 PM
I think you need to have a word with yourself, using this savage attack to somehow support your views on the treatment of the McCann's.
What do you think Spam is doing every time he posts here about some poor child killed by a parent? The implication being “see parents kill their kids and fake an abduction therefore it follows that the McCanns dunnit”.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 04, 2019, 06:47:36 PM
Mibbe so ... and in Kelly Mary's home at the time she and her son were murdered by a knifeman, there were plenty of them about ... her mother, two brothers, as well as her sister and the sister’s baby son.
But it seems someone went to the bother of entering the premises from outside to carry out the murder just as it seems someone entered the McCann apartment to kidnap Madeleine.
At the moment in Kelly Mary's case it seems the police are indeed going with a random stranger ... just in much the same way that the Judicial Police and Scotland Yard have been looking for an abductor in Madeleine's case.
I think we’ll learn a lot more about this case in the coming days and months, just the same as we did with Madeleine’s.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 04, 2019, 07:03:27 PM
A random intruder who the police believe may have been a stranger entered Kelly Mary's home without leaving sign of a forced entry, murdered her and ultimately her baby son while her entire family slept around her.
The only proactive timeline of relevance that I can see there is the murderers.
It can be speculated that the man seen on the CCTV footage approaching the house then running away from it ten minutes later ... and certainly the police would like to speak to him ... might be able to fill in the gaps.
That is the bare outline of what happened in the last minutes of Kelly Mary's life before an intruder took it from her and her son.
The lesson to be learned as far as those following Madeleine's story are concerned is that random evil acts which are beyond understanding are carried out by evil people and the evil which befell Madeleine is by no stretch of the imagination something which is either mysterious or unique.
Still weak. Random acts of 'evil acts' have been perpetrated since time immemorial; no lesson learned required. And certainly not by drawing tenuous parallels to this case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on July 04, 2019, 07:10:11 PM
Still weak. Random acts of 'evil acts' have been perpetrated since time immemorial; no lesson learned required. And certainly not by drawing tenuous parallels to this case.
In my opinion there are parallels which I have already enumerated with minus one ... which is the social media intervention and the distortion and misinterpretation of events which took place after Madeleine's disappearance. But only time will tell about that.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 04, 2019, 08:07:20 PM
According to your statistics children are safer with strangers
The data relates to abused children, not all children. It could be argued, in a somewhat obtuse way, that the abused children may have been 'better off' with strangers, statistically.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 04, 2019, 08:11:47 PM
The data relates to abused children, not all children. It could be argued, in a somewhat obtuse way, that the abused children may have been 'better off' with strangers, statistically.
The data supplied to the PJ didn't mention abused children... It's an oft trotted out statistic to try to show that the mccanns are likely to be guilty
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 04, 2019, 08:17:12 PM
so when maddie was alone in the apartment who was she more in danger from..her parents or a stranger
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 04, 2019, 08:35:52 PM
The data supplied to the PJ didn't mention abused children... It's an oft trotted out statistic to try to show that the mccanns are likely to be guilty
No it's not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 04, 2019, 08:38:01 PM
Why do you think I care.. Why are you replying to my posts.. It makes no difference to me whos guilty...
Because you asked. But now it's a rhetorical question. Got it. Rhetorical questions are difficult to spot on an open forum where the point is to respond.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 05, 2019, 07:28:04 PM
What do you think Spam is doing every time he posts here about some poor child killed by a parent? The implication being “see parents kill their kids and fake an abduction therefore it follows that the McCanns dunnit”.
You may feel the need to see the implication. for a few years most supporters were throwing 'they can't harm their children they are doctors blah blah blah posts at the forum
Evens things up a bit I think.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 05, 2019, 08:53:07 PM
I feel more than a little uneasy about the subject & I was hoping someone would put me right.
What subject? On a serious note, I actually have digs in Brixton. Suffice to say the statistics would bear out the assumption. It's a very sad time. I don't think it's the epidemic it's being reported as, but the carrying of knives absolutely is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 05, 2019, 09:26:38 PM
What subject? On a serious note, I actually have digs in Brixton. Suffice to say the statistics would bear out the assumption. It's a very sad time. I don't think it's the epidemic it's being reported as, but the carrying of knives absolutely is.
The question is, what to do about it?
I think the sale of knives needs to be controlled somehow.
Not really sure how that would work though.
In the extreme I would suggest a ban on the production & sale of knives other than culinary knives etc would perhaps be a start.
I mean, who really needs a hunting knife in Tower Hamlets?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 05, 2019, 09:47:48 PM
I think the sale of knives needs to be controlled somehow.
Not really sure how that would work though.
In the extreme I would suggest a ban on the production & sale of knives other than culinary knives etc would perhaps be a start.
I mean, who really needs a hunting knife in Tower Hamlets?
It's tough. These kids have very little to lose. It's driven by drugs, turf wars, gangs, 'respect', hubris, lack of male role models and very little else to do of a night. It's not a new societal cocktail, but I do believe austerity and cuts in public services have fuelled it. I get off the tube, go the gym, go to Tesco, go to digs, eat, sleep, get on tube, go to work. I don't mince about the park or Stockwell Park Estate too often.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on July 05, 2019, 09:48:53 PM
I think the sale of knives needs to be controlled somehow.
Not really sure how that would work though.
In the extreme I would suggest a ban on the production & sale of knives other than culinary knives etc would perhaps be a start.
I mean, who really needs a hunting knife in Tower Hamlets?
Ah but they might only live in Tower Hamlets but use the knives when on their hunting holiday 8(0(*
Just think, if they hadn't banned guns, we probably wouldn't have all this knife crime. If we ban knives ( an impossiblity), then thugs will turn to some other weapon.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 05, 2019, 09:58:19 PM
Ah but they might only live in Tower Hamlets but use the knives when on their hunting holiday 8(0(*
Just think, if they hadn't banned guns, we probably wouldn't have all this knife crime. If we ban knives ( an impossiblity), then thugs will turn to some other weapon.
This is true, if someone is determined enough a kitchen knife would suffice.
I notice several stores have stopped selling single knives...
It's tough. These kids have very little to lose. It's driven by drugs, turf wars, gangs, 'respect', hubris, lack of male role models and very little else to do of a night. It's not a new societal cocktail, but I do believe austerity and cuts in public services have fuelled it. I get off the tube, go the gym, go to Tesco, go to digs, eat, sleep, get on tube, go to work. I don't mince about the park or Stockwell Park Estate too often.
When you cut the funding to youth clubs etc and take away the only shield between the vulnerable child and criminality what do you expect to happen ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 05, 2019, 10:38:15 PM
Nothing excuses breaking into someone’s house and stabbbing an eight month pregnant woman to deatth, not even the closure of the local youth club or the government’s austerity measures.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 05, 2019, 10:44:07 PM
Nothing excuses breaking into someone’s house and stabbbing an eight month pregnant woman to deatth, not even the closure of the local youth club or the government’s austerity measures.
Disappointing comment. I was referring to an erosion of societal norms exacerbated by the reduction of public services and poverty over half a generation. I see it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on July 05, 2019, 10:48:07 PM
Nothing excuses breaking into someone’s house and stabbbing an eight month pregnant woman to deatth, not even the closure of the local youth club or the government’s austerity measures.
Until we know the exact circumstances surrounding this horrendous crime it is impossible to say what motivated the killer.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 05, 2019, 10:52:37 PM
Disappointing comment. I was referring to an erosion of societal norms exacerbated by the reduction of public services and poverty over half a generation. I see it.
I know what you were referring to but no amount of poverty or reduction in public services explains why someone shhould choose to murder an expectant mother. If that comment disappoints you well then frankly I’m disappointed by your disappointment.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 05, 2019, 10:54:21 PM
On a completely different note is anyone having difficulty writing posts because of a slow keyboard response or is it just me?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 05, 2019, 10:59:44 PM
I know what you were referring to but no amount of poverty or reduction in public services explains why someone shhould choose to murder an expectant mother. If that comment disappoints you well then frankly I’m disappointed by your disappointment.
I'm talking holistically. This is obviously an isolated, targeted incident. I'm disappointed in myself for being disappointed, which is now compounded by your disappointment of my disappointment.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 05, 2019, 11:04:53 PM
Did anyone ever belong to a youth club? Their demise is usually trotted out as a reason for juvenile delinquency and I wondered why. Nobody I hung around with as a youth went to one and yet none of us felt the need to stab people.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 05, 2019, 11:06:23 PM
Did anyone ever belong to a youth club? Their demise is usually trotted out as a reason for juvenile delinquency and I wondered why. Nobody I hung around with as a youth went to one and yet none of us felt the need to stab people.
I did. Most visits ended in a fight. No one ever died, mind.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on July 05, 2019, 11:07:52 PM
Davelitis. Another arse kicking coming up from my favourite mystery mod.
no problem...Ive decided not to report the numerous goading...ad homs directed towards myself...im not bothered...I might just aknowledge them . Its a sign taht posters are having problems countering my superior ,logically well founded arguments
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on July 06, 2019, 09:24:33 AM
Disappointing comment. I was referring to an erosion of societal norms exacerbated by the reduction of public services and poverty over half a generation. I see it.
Forgive me if I am misreading your post general.
I have never been a great fan of blaming poverty,bad housing etc for crime. The math just isn't there.
People from wealthy back grounds commit henous crimes, so it tends to stigmatise those who live in poverty and unsuitable housing. It also offers excuses.
As we see with this McCann forum thread. people refuse to believe the parents did anything wrong because of their status!
People are judged by how much money they have and where they live and this can weigh on juries as well as judges descisions.
The person who commited this crimes knows why they commited it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 15, 2019, 02:24:54 PM
DOUBLE KILLING Man, 25, in court over murder of pregnant Kelly Mary Fauvrelle and manslaughter of her baby Riley in Croydon
THE 25-YEAR-OLD alleged killer of a heavily pregnant woman and her baby in Croydon has appeared in court today.
Aaron McKenzie is accused of murdering Kelly Mary Fauvrelle, 26, who was eight months pregnant when she was stabbed to death in her bed in the early hours of June 29...........
A random intruder who the police believe may have been a stranger entered Kelly Mary's home without leaving sign of a forced entry, murdered her and ultimately her baby son while her entire family slept around her.
The only proactive timeline of relevance that I can see there is the murderers.
It can be speculated that the man seen on the CCTV footage approaching the house then running away from it ten minutes later ... and certainly the police would like to speak to him ... might be able to fill in the gaps.
That is the bare outline of what happened in the last minutes of Kelly Mary's life before an intruder took it from her and her son.
The lesson to be learned as far as those following Madeleine's story are concerned is that random evil acts which are beyond understanding are carried out by evil people and the evil which befell Madeleine is by no stretch of the imagination something which is either mysterious or unique.
Kelly Mary Fauvrelle death: Ex-partner 'accepts responsibility'
An article “KEY TO FINDING MADDIE Expert says mystery man spotted on night she disappeared is key to solving case of missing Madeleine McCann” (11 March) originally had a headline which reported that criminal profiler Pat Brown believed Madeleine McCann may have been abducted by a mystery man seen on the night she disappeared. To clarify, she believes that the man is key to solving the case, but does not believe that he abducted Madeleine. A version of the headline also suggested that two ‘mystery men’ seen on the night may have been the same person; in fact, Pat Brown believes they were different men. We apologise for the error.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on July 22, 2019, 11:46:38 PM
An article “KEY TO FINDING MADDIE Expert says mystery man spotted on night she disappeared is key to solving case of missing Madeleine McCann” (11 March) originally had a headline which reported that criminal profiler Pat Brown believed Madeleine McCann may have been abducted by a mystery man seen on the night she disappeared. To clarify, she believes that the man is key to solving the case, but does not believe that he abducted Madeleine. A version of the headline also suggested that two ‘mystery men’ seen on the night may have been the same person; in fact, Pat Brown believes they were different men. We apologise for the error.
Was Pat Brown crystal clear regarding her beliefs when discussing the matter with Mark Saunokonoko?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on July 29, 2019, 09:08:11 PM
He was being watched by staff- they knew where the parents were and how to contact them. The boy was mature enough to speak up in hs mother tongue should anyone try to abduct him... I am not a fan of Gove.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on July 31, 2019, 11:23:25 PM
He was being watched by staff- they knew where the parents were and how to contact them. The boy was mature enough to speak up in hs mother tongue should anyone try to abduct him... I am not a fan of Gove.
Indeed and yet it still caused raised eyebrows.
For me if Madeleine had gone missing in this country, and there hadn’t been the old xenophobic tropes to rely on, then the parents would have found themselves in a much more perilous position, legally speaking.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 01, 2019, 04:53:44 AM
For me if Madeleine had gone missing in this country, and there hadn’t been the old xenophobic tropes to rely on, then the parents would have found themselves in a much more perilous position, legally speaking.
Xenophobia literally means fear of the strange or foreign. Politically, it is applied as a blanket term for nationalism, racism, tribalism, or any other fear or suspicion of an ingroup towards an outgroup.
trope
noun plural noun: tropes a figurative or metaphorical use of a word or expression. "both clothes and illness became tropes for new attitudes toward the self" a significant or recurrent theme; a motif. "she uses the Eucharist as a pictorial trope"
Well whatever "old xenophobic trope" means it doesn't sound great so you'll get warning points for confusing the moderators with jargon beyond our understanding.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 01, 2019, 06:04:47 AM
Xenophobia literally means fear of the strange or foreign. Politically, it is applied as a blanket term for nationalism, racism, tribalism, or any other fear or suspicion of an ingroup towards an outgroup.
trope
noun plural noun: tropes a figurative or metaphorical use of a word or expression. "both clothes and illness became tropes for new attitudes toward the self" a significant or recurrent theme; a motif. "she uses the Eucharist as a pictorial trope"
Well whatever "old xenophobic trope" means it doesn't sound great so you'll get warning points for confusing the moderators with jargon beyond our understanding.
Faithlilly's post was perfectly clear to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 01, 2019, 06:44:01 AM
For me if Madeleine had gone missing in this country, and there hadn’t been the old xenophobic tropes to rely on, then the parents would have found themselves in a much more perilous position, legally speaking.
It caused raised eyebrows because people love to judge, nowhere more so than in the UK where eyebrows flew off foreheads to flock together on the comments pages of the Daily Mail when the McCann case was first reported and ever since. You think the UK legal system takes this sort of thing more seriously than Portugal? Isn’t that somewhat critical of the Portuguese, xenophobic even?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 01, 2019, 08:39:41 AM
Well would you like to explain the phrase "old xenophobic tropes" as it is used in the sentence please: "For me if Madeleine had gone missing in this country, and there hadn’t been the old xenophobic tropes to rely on, then the parents would have found themselves in a much more perilous position, legally speaking.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on August 01, 2019, 08:55:19 AM
Well would you like to explain the phrase "old xenophobic tropes" as it is used in the sentence please: "For me if Madeleine had gone missing in this country, and there hadn’t been the old xenophobic tropes to rely on, then the parents would have found themselves in a much more perilous position, legally speaking.
I don't need to. Your somewhat laboured analysis got there in the end.
I got it without your analysis. It's pretty clear to me.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 01, 2019, 08:58:26 AM
But it makes sense to everyone else... Have you thought the problem might be with you
I very much doubt anyone here has a problem after all isn't it what most 'normal' people do: spend hours, days, months, years and eventually no doubt decades poring over tiny details and mass debating them to death? 8()-000(
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 01, 2019, 11:24:16 AM
I very much doubt anyone here has a problem after all isn't it what most 'normal' people do: spend hours, days, months, years and eventually no doubt decades poring over tiny details and mass debating them to death? 8()-000(
rob seems to have a problem understanding faiths post...normal people it seems spend hours watcthing banal tv programmes
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 01, 2019, 11:31:51 AM
rob seems to have a problem understanding faiths post...normal people it seems spend hours watcthing banal tv programmes
People could be doing far worse than watching "banal" tv progs or browsing The Sun. Each to their own.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: John on August 01, 2019, 01:36:35 PM
Posters are reminded of the forum rules and the penalties for breaching same. Please keep posts amicable and constructive and above all, on topic. TY
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 03, 2019, 06:30:47 PM
I'll just leave this here.
..........
Missing autistic boy found dead, ‘MOM’ and her girlfriend arrested and charged: Police
August 3, 2019
The case of a missing Baltimore has turned tragic after authorities found his deceased body late Friday night, according to the Baltimore police.
Malachi Lawson, 4, was supposedly last seen Friday at around 3:22 p.m., on the front porch of his grandmother’s house, off of the 4500 block of Rogers Avenue in Northwest Baltimore.
However, shortly after Baltimore Police Commissioner Michael Harrison asked for the public’s help in finding the boy, Malachi’s mother, Alicia Lawson, allegedly admitted the boy was never really missing. Instead, his body was hidden.
Police said Lawson led police to Malachi’s remains in a nearby dumpster, off of Hayden Avenue. The woman indicated the boy died on August 1.
Lawson, along with her girlfriend, Shatika Lawson, will be charged with child neglect resulting in the death of a minor, according to authorities. Additional charges may follow after the Medical Examiner determines the boy’s official cause of death.
According to police, Malachi had a mild form of autism and walked with a limp. Upon finding him, authorities noticed “obvious signs of injury.”
Missing autistic boy found dead, ‘MOM’ and her girlfriend arrested and charged: Police
August 3, 2019
The case of a missing Baltimore has turned tragic after authorities found his deceased body late Friday night, according to the Baltimore police.
Malachi Lawson, 4, was supposedly last seen Friday at around 3:22 p.m., on the front porch of his grandmother’s house, off of the 4500 block of Rogers Avenue in Northwest Baltimore.
However, shortly after Baltimore Police Commissioner Michael Harrison asked for the public’s help in finding the boy, Malachi’s mother, Alicia Lawson, allegedly admitted the boy was never really missing. Instead, his body was hidden.
Police said Lawson led police to Malachi’s remains in a nearby dumpster, off of Hayden Avenue. The woman indicated the boy died on August 1.
Lawson, along with her girlfriend, Shatika Lawson, will be charged with child neglect resulting in the death of a minor, according to authorities. Additional charges may follow after the Medical Examiner determines the boy’s official cause of death.
According to police, Malachi had a mild form of autism and walked with a limp. Upon finding him, authorities noticed “obvious signs of injury.”
So, if I post a news report of a stranger abduction what would that say about the case?
Post one & we can talk about it.
Problem there is, there haven't been any lately, unlike death & disposal in the trash cases, of which there's been about 3 or 4 I can think of from recent months.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 03, 2019, 07:03:18 PM
Problem there is, there haven't been any lately, unlike death & disposal in the trash cases, of which there's been about 3 or 4 I can think of from recent months.
What relevance has “recently” got to do with it? Madeleine did not disappear recently? If three or four cases of disposal by parents in a trash can happened recently does that mean it’s more likely to have happened to Madeleine? Could you please explain the logic?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 03, 2019, 07:10:17 PM
What relevance has “recently” got to do with it? Madeleine did not disappear recently? If three or four cases of disposal by parents in a trash can happened recently does that mean it’s more likely to have happened to Madeleine? Could you please explain the logic?
We are discussing the case now. Not 12 years ago.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 03, 2019, 07:13:58 PM
Is this one recent enough or did it have to have happened yesterday to qualify? https://eu.delawareonline.com/story/news/crime/2018/06/14/4-year-old-abducted-bedroom-avondale-dad-interrupted-assault/702407002/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 03, 2019, 07:18:55 PM
I bet this one isn’t recent enough either, it happened two months ago now
Is this one recent enough or did it have to have happened yesterday to qualify? https://eu.delawareonline.com/story/news/crime/2018/06/14/4-year-old-abducted-bedroom-avondale-dad-interrupted-assault/702407002/
Last year. Old news. Doesn't qualify.
There was an abduction rape & murder in India recently, but that's a 3rd world shit hole so doesn't really qualify either.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on August 03, 2019, 07:23:03 PM
There was an abduction rape & murder in India recently, but that's a 3rd world shit hole so doesn't really qualify either.
Of course it doesn’t qualify. Be honest - none of them does, because there is no logic to the premise you are attempting to put forward. Just because some parents kill their kid and put the body in a dumpster doesn’t mean that’s what the McCanns did. Just because a kid is abducted from her room, raped and murdered by a stranger doesn’t mean that’s what happened to Madeleine. Of course you knew that anyway, you just post these tragic stories for your own amusement, as a wind up. Nice.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on August 04, 2019, 09:57:46 AM
Of course it doesn’t qualify. Be honest - none of them does, because there is no logic to the premise you are attempting to put forward. Just because some parents kill their kid and put the body in a dumpster doesn’t mean that’s what the McCanns did. Just because a kid is abducted from her room, raped and murdered by a stranger doesn’t mean that’s what happened to Madeleine. Of course you knew that anyway, you just post these tragic stories for your own amusement, as a wind up. Nice.
Don't some people post stories about abducted children in order to support the abduction theory? A particular favourite is the child taken from her bath. Those posts are also irrelevant but they keep cropping up.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 04, 2019, 10:02:54 AM
Don't some people post stories about abducted children in order to support the abduction theory? A particular favourite is the child taken from her bath. Those posts are also irrelevant but they keep cropping up.
the abduction from bath has relevance as to the necessary window of opportunity
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 04, 2019, 10:13:03 AM
the abduction from bath has relevance as to the necessary window of opportunity
Well actually no it doesn't.
The shamed 'abducter' of MBM was carrying a tool bag containing: jemmie for the window- drugs for the kids. coupld bottles of cilit bang to clean the place up. However, going by your logic if ther was window of opportunity to grab a child then one must exist for getting rid of the body?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 04, 2019, 10:22:04 AM
The shamed 'abducter' of MBM was carrying a tool bag containing: jemmie for the window- drugs for the kids. coupld bottles of cilit bang to clean the place up. However, going by your logic if ther was window of opportunity to grab a child then one must exist for getting rid of the body?
it does imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on August 04, 2019, 10:41:54 AM
Don't some people post stories about abducted children in order to support the abduction theory? A particular favourite is the child taken from her bath. Those posts are also irrelevant but they keep cropping up.
There is a difference. Some Sceptics do seem to have a penchant for the more gory details.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 04, 2019, 10:55:27 AM
Don't some people post stories about abducted children in order to support the abduction theory? A particular favourite is the child taken from her bath. Those posts are also irrelevant but they keep cropping up.
Only in response to those who claim no stranger would be brazen enough to enter an apartment and steal a child when parents were coming and going. It proves that the premise is incorrect.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on August 04, 2019, 11:48:03 AM
And passed our fondness for Elvis to our grandchildren, particularly our eighteen year old grandson who is a huge fan. However the grandchildren have made us huge fans of George Ezra, Paulo Nattini, and Leo .Capaldi
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 04, 2019, 09:10:03 PM
And passed our fondness for Elvis to our grandchildren, particularly our eighteen year old grandson who is a huge fan. However the grandchildren have made us huge fans of George Ezra, Paulo Nattini, and Leo .Capaldi
I love Only fools rush in... Ive had it played at each of my weddings
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on August 04, 2019, 09:18:59 PM
MADDIE DNA HOPE Hope of new Madeleine McCann breakthrough as DNA expert offers to re-test samples to help solve mystery case Jon Rogers 10 Aug 2019, 9:36Updated: 10 Aug 2019, 10:04
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 11, 2019, 09:16:00 AM
MADDIE DNA HOPE Hope of new Madeleine McCann breakthrough as DNA expert offers to re-test samples to help solve mystery case Jon Rogers 10 Aug 2019, 9:36Updated: 10 Aug 2019, 10:04
So Perlin can only find a dna profile of an unknown person... He can't isolate maddies dna and prove it was hers in the car... This is what I suspected from the beginning. How would this help... Portugal has no DNA database
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on August 11, 2019, 10:03:55 AM
So Perlin can only find a dna profile of an unknown person... He can't isolate maddies dna and prove it was hers in the car... This is what I suspected from the beginning. How would this help... Portugal has no DNA database
The FSS said they couldn't say if the 15/19 markers were actually all Madeleine's. As I understand it Perlin could clarify that.
If he isolated a stranger's DNA in the 5A samples the question arising is what was a stranger doing behind that couch?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on August 11, 2019, 10:08:19 AM
Why is the Sun running these articles at this time?
Is it just to fill a quiet spell ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 11, 2019, 10:08:28 AM
No... Perli never said exactly what he could do.. Saunokonoko and others made their own claims imo If you remember several posters including myself doubted he could confirm maddie dna... This is the first time there's anything directly from him and it looks like he claims to be able to isolate a strangers profile... No sure how much use that would be
Certainly not the game changer some claimed
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 11, 2019, 05:56:57 PM
No... Perli never said exactly what he could do.. Saunokonoko and others made their own claims imo If you remember several posters including myself doubted he could confirm maddie dna... This is the first time there's anything directly from him and it looks like he claims to be able to isolate a strangers profile... No sure how much use that would be
Certainly not the game changer some claimed
So is it worth dismissing? It maybe helpful/ maybe not but worth a try. If it wasn't helpful to do a reconstitution for the PJ to help investigate MBM's disappearance ,BUT worth while to do one for the BBC (entertainment for the masses), you have to wonder who is calling the shots here an why.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on September 10, 2019, 10:41:08 AM
Cressida Dick has been awarded a damehood, the female equivalent of a knighthood, in Theresa May's outgoing honours list.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on September 10, 2019, 10:44:01 AM
Standard procedure. All the previous Commissioners of the Met have been given knighthoods at some point.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 10, 2019, 08:46:30 PM
You know its a crock when the likes of her receive it,opinion of course.
I don't have any facts and figures to back this up but it seems to me that crime may well have increased under her stewardship? Especially violent crime eg stabbings?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 11, 2019, 09:11:37 AM
I don't have any facts and figures to back this up but it seems to me that crime may well have increased under her stewardship? Especially violent crime eg stabbings?
Hasn't violent crime... Stabbings... Acid, attacks ..increased all over the UK.... Not just the Met
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 11, 2019, 09:11:43 AM
I don't have any facts and figures to back this up but it seems to me that crime may well have increased under her stewardship? Especially violent crime eg stabbings?
At least she doesn’t have a conviction for violent assault, unlike “sir” Geoffrey Boycott l
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 11, 2019, 09:21:07 AM
Hasn't violent crime... Stabbings... Acid, attacks ..increased all over the UK.... Not just the Met
As I said I don't have all the fact and figures so quite possibly yes but we're not justifying a Chief Constable elsewhere receiving a dame hood or knighthood we're talking about the Met Comm receiving a dame hood.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 11, 2019, 10:28:03 AM
As I said I don't have all the fact and figures so quite possibly yes but we're not justifying a Chief Constable elsewhere receiving a dame hood or knighthood we're talking about the Met Comm receiving a dame hood.
I think she received it for years of service to the police and for achieving high rank, whether or not you think individuals should be rewarded in this manner for years of public service is another argument entirely.. Personally, I think they should do away with the whole outdated concept for everyone.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 11, 2019, 10:33:19 AM
As I said I don't have all the fact and figures so quite possibly yes but we're not justifying a Chief Constable elsewhere receiving a dame hood or knighthood we're talking about the Met Comm receiving a dame hood.
And how is that relevant to the case. The point I'm making is that you can't see a rise in crime in isolation and infer it's down to her management when violent crime is rising everywhere. It seems another unfair attempt to criticise the Met
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 11, 2019, 11:18:15 AM
I think she received it for years of service to the police and for achieving high rank, whether or not you think individuals should be rewarded in this manner for years of public service is another argument entirely.. Personally, I think they should do away with the whole outdated concept for everyone.
Agreed. And we can many were dished out when clearly they should not have been eg Crosby, Goodwin, Green, Savile.
Former police officer Hamish Campbell who was a senior officer in the case of Jill Dando and MM was awarded the QPM. It remains to be seen whether or not it was deserved! Its all a form of cronyism imo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 11, 2019, 11:26:45 AM
And how is that relevant to the case. The point I'm making is that you can't see a rise in crime in isolation and infer it's down to her management when violent crime is rising everywhere. It seems another unfair attempt to criticise the Met
I believe CD has for some of the time had ultimate responsibility for Op Grange the operation tasked with investigating the disappearance of MM?
And the point I'm making is that rising crime might be well be a theme running across the length and breadth of the country but afaik Chief Constables have not been recognised for this failure by way of receiving a dame hood or knighthood? So on what basis is CD being awarded a dame hood?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 11, 2019, 11:41:41 AM
I believe CD has for some of the time had ultimate responsibility for Op Grange the operation tasked with investigating the disappearance of MM?
And the point I'm making is that rising crime might be well be a theme running across the length and breadth of the country but afaik Chief Constables have not been recognised for this failure by way of receiving a dame hood or knighthood? So on what basis is CD being awarded a dame hood?
You want to blame the police fir rising crime.. I think that's illigical and unfair for several reasons
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 11, 2019, 11:45:44 AM
You want to blame the police fir rising crime.. I think that's illigical and unfair for several reasons
Can you point me in the direction where I have blamed the police for rising crime? I have simply questioned CD's eligibility for a dame hood. What exactly has she achieved during her tenure that qualifies her to receive such a reward?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 11, 2019, 11:54:26 AM
Can you point me in the direction where I have blamed the police for rising crime? I have simply questioned CD's eligibility for a dame hood. What exactly has she achieved during her tenure that qualifies her to receive such a reward?
It seems it's normal practice.... I think it's, an outdated system. You di seem to want to continually criticise the Met Moped crime is halved due to the, Mets initiative... But they dint get the, support they deserve from politicians and courts...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 11, 2019, 12:02:59 PM
Can you point me in the direction where I have blamed the police for rising crime? I have simply questioned CD's eligibility for a dame hood. What exactly has she achieved during her tenure that qualifies her to receive such a reward?
Your post.
rising crime might be well be a theme running across the length and breadth of the country but afaik Chief Constables have not been recognised for this failure
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 11, 2019, 12:53:29 PM
Can you point me in the direction where I have blamed the police for rising crime? I have simply questioned CD's eligibility for a dame hood. What exactly has she achieved during her tenure that qualifies her to receive such a reward?
It's what the establishment does - hands out gongs to the head of the the Met. Get over it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2019, 08:06:43 AM
rising crime might be well be a theme running across the length and breadth of the country but afaik Chief Constables have not been recognised for this failure
I think the operative word above is 'might'. If crime is on the increase it could be down to many factors including poorly performing police officers across all ranks.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2019, 08:17:47 AM
It's what the establishment does - hands out gongs to the head of the the Met. Get over it.
Nothing to get over I saw with my own eyes working in financial services for 2.5 decades that the system is perverse. Almost all those responsible for the financial crisis of 07/08 had been awarded knighthoods in the run up, need I say more.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 12, 2019, 08:58:27 AM
I think the operative word above is 'might'. If crime is on the increase it could be down to many factors including poorly performing police officers across all ranks.
More likely to do with the cuts to police numbers.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2019, 09:36:07 AM
I think the operative word above is 'might'. If crime is on the increase it could be down to many factors including poorly performing police officers across all ranks.
What about fluoride in the water... Mercury in vaccines
You can blame just about anything but it's meaningless without evidence..
The Met reduced moped crime by 50%....but their methods received criticism not praise....
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2019, 09:39:02 AM
I think the operative word above is 'might'. If crime is on the increase it could be down to many factors including poorly performing police officers across all ranks.
Imo you have very little knowledge of police work and the difficulties they face on a day to day basis
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2019, 10:14:00 AM
About the same sort of difficulties most others face I would have thought: bureaucracy, health and safety, procedures, politics, resources etc, etc.
The point is are the police the best they can be? Or do they need to up their game?
I remember 20 years ago talking to a police woman...she said they arrest a young teenager for mugging an old lady..
the teenager spits in their face....and theres nothing they can do....as i said..imo you dont understand the difficulties the police face on a day by day basis
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 12, 2019, 10:31:19 AM
About the same sort of difficulties most others face I would have thought: bureaucracy, health and safety, procedures, politics, resources etc, etc.
The point is are the police the best they can be? Or do they need to up their game?
No organisation or public service is the best it can be, there is always room for improvement, but what has any of this got to do with Cressida Dick getting a gong?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 12, 2019, 01:40:32 PM
I remember 20 years ago talking to a police woman...she said they arrest a young teenager for mugging an old lady..
the teenager spits in their face....and theres nothing they can do....as i said..imo you dont understand the difficulties the police face on a day by day basis
It's not acceptable the way people react to the police these days. They have to put spit hoods onto people to protect themselves. I think spitting should be treated as assault, and that the police should be allowed to respond up to and including tasering.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on September 12, 2019, 02:59:43 PM
It's not acceptable the way people react to the police these days. They have to put spit hoods onto people to protect themselves. I think spitting should be treated as assault, and that the police should be allowed to respond up to and including tasering.
I think it is.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2019, 03:23:01 PM
It's not acceptable the way people react to the police these days. They have to put spit hoods onto people to protect themselves. I think spitting should be treated as assault, and that the police should be allowed to respond up to and including tasering.
I agree but how do you react to a 12 or 13 Yr old child who spits in your face... The police cannot react and criminals know that
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2019, 03:34:25 PM
I remember 20 years ago talking to a police woman...she said they arrest a young teenager for mugging an old lady..
the teenager spits in their face....and theres nothing they can do....as i said..imo you dont understand the difficulties the police face on a day by day basis
But many front line public servants face similar eg ambulance/paramedics, A&E, school teachers, social workers etc.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2019, 03:36:38 PM
No organisation or public service is the best it can be, there is always room for improvement, but what has any of this got to do with Cressida Dick getting a gong?
What has the MET achieved under her stewardship deserving of a dame hood? As you said they don't need to achieve or under achieve they simply receive a dame hood or knighthood as as part of the package.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2019, 03:41:04 PM
It's no good simply criticising when imo you don't understand the difficulties they face and you actually think you can do better
What evidence do you have that the police face more difficulties in the work place than others?
Where have I said or even implied I could do better? And could do better where: frontline policing, special operations, commercial and finance, professionalism or what?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2019, 04:32:00 PM
What evidence do you have that the police face more difficulties in the work place than others?
Where have I said or even implied I could do better? And could do better where: frontline policing, special operations, commercial and finance, professionalism or what?
You claim to have solved the McCann case and said your findings will embarrass the Met
How many police have been killed or injured in the line of work in the last ten years... Compared to say... Mortgage Brokers
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2019, 04:34:37 PM
What has the MET achieved under her stewardship deserving of a dame hood? As you said they don't need to achieve or under achieve they simply receive a dame hood or knighthood as as part of the package.
But hey ho at least she paid for her own oil painting and sat in her own time for it.
How many police have been killed or injured in the line of work in the last ten years... Compared to say... Mortgage Brokers
Not sure what mortgage brokers have got to do with anything?
Its a myth the police suffer more fatalities in the workplace than others but I thought you might trot that one out. See fatality figures produced by HSE. Page 5, fig 5:
Even if I achieve the above its not the same as saying I think I could do better than the police as a whole.
Of course it will be embarrassing for the MET if an armchair sleuth has cracked the case in less than a month at zero cost.
Not sure what mortgage brokers have got to do with anything?
Its a myth the police suffer more fatalities in the workplace than others but I thought you might trot that one out. See fatality figures produced by HSE. Page 5, fig 5:
I think my post above incorporates the word 'if' on two occasions. Even if I have solved the McCannn case I don't see why it be so outlandish given we almost have all the same info to work with that the police have given Portuguese law of placing it all in the public domain.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 12, 2019, 05:27:36 PM
I think my post above incorporates the word 'if' on two occasions. Even if I have solved the McCannn case I don't see why it be so outlandish given we almost have all the same info to work with that the police have given Portuguese law of placing it all in the public domain.
Not everything is in the public domain.. I think it's a ridiculous idea..
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 12, 2019, 05:35:31 PM
Not everything is in the public domain.. I think it's a ridiculous idea..
What's not in the public domain that's relevant?
Just repeating something is ridiculous doesn't make it so. Please set out your reasons explaining why in your opinion it is not possible for an armchair sleuth to crack the case?
Catcha you later Davel.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 12, 2019, 06:09:38 PM
What has the MET achieved under her stewardship deserving of a dame hood? As you said they don't need to achieve or under achieve they simply receive a dame hood or knighthood as as part of the package.
I’m sure the Met must have achieved SOMETHING under her stewardship, but so what?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on September 12, 2019, 06:34:23 PM
Just repeating something is ridiculous doesn't make it so. Please set out your reasons explaining why in your opinion it is not possible for an armchair sleuth to crack the case?
Catcha you later Davel.
as Ive said before its possible for an armchair detective to have a theory that fits ...that doesnt mean its true. There is no evidence in the public domain to enable anything to be proven with any real degree of certainty.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 12, 2019, 07:57:04 PM
I think my post above incorporates the word 'if' on two occasions. Even if I have solved the McCannn case I don't see why it be so outlandish given we almost have all the same info to work with that the police have given Portuguese law of placing it all in the public domain.
"If" isn't what you said four weeks ago when it was cut and dried, Dr. G...
I never claimed she was found guilty of wrongdoing. I said she called it wrong ie made the wrong decision which ultimately resulted in the death of an innocent man.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 13, 2019, 09:21:36 AM
I try to play it down so as not to upset Davel but if you play your cards right I might consider sharing with you and cancelling my meeting with Sir Martin Brunt.
Its a simple and straightforward case only made complex if you don't filter out all the noise that has surrounded it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2019, 11:52:31 AM
I try to play it down so as not to upset Davel but if you play your cards right I might consider sharing with you and cancelling my meeting with Sir Martin Brunt.
Its a simple and straightforward case only made complex if you don't filter out all the noise that has surrounded it.
Why should it upset me... Its more likely to make me laugh. You've given away more than you think.... And you have no evidence to put before a court... Just a theory
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on September 13, 2019, 12:00:43 PM
Why should it upset me... Its more likely to make me laugh. You've given away more than you think.... And you have no evidence to put before a court... Just a theory
If I've given away more than I think and its making you laugh then why not give the others here the potential for a laugh too?
If my theory is correct it will be a cinch for a reasonably competent officer to gather evidence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 13, 2019, 12:04:47 PM
You said I have no evidence to put before a court but that doesn't mean that I don't have any evidence at all.
It means you have no evidence to put before a court.. So the evidence you think you have is weak and doesn't prove anything... You have a theory unsupported by evidence that could be used in court.. The same as Amaral.. Cmomm.. And many.. Many others
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 13, 2019, 07:04:36 PM
She looks like she’s been punched in the face, not fallen and hit her head, that’s for sure.
The bruises are consistent with having banged her right forehead (visible raised bump) and/or the bridge of her nose on the floor, and then bleeding down internally underneath her eyes. I used to have bottled milk delivered by a farmer's sister. One morning she turned up for payment, unrecognisable with a purple forehead and facial bruises below both eyes worse than those of Margaret Moore. I asked her "What on earth happened to your face and haven't you been to A&E yet?" She replied "Oh no, it's nowt... I tripped over't bailer in't farmyard and landed on me yed".
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 13, 2019, 07:25:32 PM
The bruises are consistent with having banged her right forehead (visible raised bump) and/or the bridge of her nose on the floor, and then bleeding down internally underneath her eyes. I used to have bottled milk delivered by a farmer's sister. One morning she turned up for payment, unrecognisable with a purple forehead and facial bruises below both eyes worse than those of Margaret Moore. I asked her "What on earth happened to your face and haven't you been to A&E yet?" She replied "Oh no, it's nowt... I tripped over't bailer in't farmyard and landed on me yed".
Where was the Farmer’s sister in Geoffrey’s hour of need?! The French courts obviously haven’t a clue then, much like the Portuguese ones.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 14, 2019, 08:22:29 AM
Cressida Dick has been awarded a damehood, the female equivalent of a knighthood, in Theresa May's outgoing honours list.
Is she a buck passer,thats how the greasy pole usually works.Best say opinion again, one supposes.
Now Britain's top cop Cressida Dick is dragged into the Nick scandal after it's revealed she had a key role in probe as she tries to shift blame to her deputy
Is she a buck passer,thats how the greasy pole usually works.Best say opinion again, one supposes.
Now Britain's top cop Cressida Dick is dragged into the Nick scandal after it's revealed she had a key role in probe as she tries to shift blame to her deputy
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Carl Beech, aka 'Nick', benefit from a £22,000 payout by lying about being assaulted by Savile? He managed to con the legal system and no doubt a few conspiracy theorists to boot.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on September 14, 2019, 10:31:05 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Carl Beech, aka 'Nick', benefit from a £22,000 payout by lying about being assaulted by Savile? He managed to con the legal system and no doubt a few conspiracy theorists to boot.
Do you include the met amongst those of a conspiracy bent,credible and true weren't his claims thought to be.
Sir Richard said: "The fact remains, however, that Beech had not remained consistent, the Metropolitan Police informed the district judge that Beech had remained consistent and 'he is felt to be a credible witness who is telling the truth'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49160506
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2019, 11:45:42 AM
Do you include the met amongst those of a conspiracy bent,credible and true weren't his claims thought to be.
Sir Richard said: "The fact remains, however, that Beech had not remained consistent, the Metropolitan Police informed the district judge that Beech had remained consistent and 'he is felt to be a credible witness who is telling the truth'."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49160506
Perhaps the Met just aren't very good at spotting inconsistences.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 14, 2019, 05:34:46 PM
Perhaps the Met just aren't very good at spotting inconsistences.
As I remember it was the sceptics here who swallowed this hook line and sinker... The Met had no option but to take such accusations seriously... Can you imagine the uproar if they hadnt
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on September 14, 2019, 07:35:25 PM
As I remember it was the sceptics here who swallowed this hook line and sinker... The Met had no option but to take such accusations seriously... Can you imagine the uproar if they hadnt
The Sceptics? what ALL of them? really. I never!
Of course all allegations should be investigated, when something seems to be wrong, then that should be addressed also.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 14, 2019, 07:53:21 PM
As I remember it was the sceptics here who swallowed this hook line and sinker... The Met had no option but to take such accusations seriously... Can you imagine the uproar if they hadnt
Taking something seriously, yes. Not noticing inconsistencies, fail.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on September 14, 2019, 08:57:40 PM
Though if it proves fruitless, it will be of no consequence that it wasn't done back then.
How can you possibly determine what the result might have been if things which were ignored at the time had been dealt with appropriately. It is perfectly possible that if appropriate leads had been followed through as they should have been that the investigation might have led somewhere positive all those years ago.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on September 14, 2019, 09:20:09 PM
How can you possibly determine what the result might have been if things which were ignored at the time had been dealt with appropriately. It is perfectly possible that if appropriate leads had been followed through as they should have been that the investigation might have led somewhere positive all those years ago.
I think not, but dream on if it so suits you ?{)(**
'Tis of no consequence.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on September 20, 2019, 08:08:23 PM
Wasnt it an interesting forum when we had vigorous debate before the moderators shut it all down
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on September 20, 2019, 09:04:52 PM
How can you possibly determine what the result might have been if things which were ignored at the time had been dealt with appropriately. It is perfectly possible that if appropriate leads had been followed through as they should have been that the investigation might have led somewhere positive all those years ago.
Do you not think if they checked like they claimed and did a reconstruction THAT would have helped? The abduction via a window story was a glaringly red herring. The PJ saw this. We all see it!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on September 24, 2019, 08:34:18 PM
Do you not think if they checked like they claimed and did a reconstruction THAT would have helped? The abduction via a window story was a glaringly red herring. The PJ saw this. We all see it!
Oh no we don't.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on September 24, 2019, 08:39:45 PM
John Coxon, former Met Police, on Facebook I wish to register a formal complaint in regard to Operation Grange , the so called Met Police search for Madeleine McCann. I do so on the following grounds.
1/ It has blatantly and inexplicably failed to look at the parents and accompanying party as suspects in the investigation.
This is in complete disregard to the findings in the original Portuguese investigation.
Namely
A/ multiple and significant discrepancies in their accounts
B/ deletion of mobile phone data and obstruction of evidence
C/ multiple indications by forensic cadaver and blood dogs in their apartment on Kate McCann’s clothing , the child’s toy and on a vehicle they hired 3 weeks after her disappearance. Also a close DNA match found in the boot of the same vehicle.
D/ An eye witness account naming Gerry McCann as the so called prime suspect, Smith man.
E/ The McCanns refusal to cooperate , answer questions and take part in a reconstruction which shelved the original enquiry
F/ Allegations from two healthcare professionals that at least one of the party , doctor David Payne is a paedophile.
They were made suspects for all these perfectly valid reasons , it is apparent that Operation Grange has failed to address a single one of them. The Portuguese closing report does not exonerate them at all , I presume during the 5 years of its existence Grange was aware of these matters , yet has acted as if none of this ever happened.
More specifically , Met police chief Hogan Howe has on at least one occasion claimed the McCanns have been ” ruled out” , firstly , this is at complete odds with Granges opening statement which claims ” treat the abduction as if it happened yesterday” clearly implying they were totally off the table from the start , secondly it is simply impossible as there is no independent evidence that exonerates them and if there was the McCanns publicity machine would be screaming it from the roof tops.
2/ It is apparent lines of enquiry have been leaked to the media. If this were the case and a live child were being held captive , it would clearly endanger that individuals life, obviously a totally unacceptable situation. Furthermore these leaks have frequently coincided with an ongoing civil case the McCanns are fighting in Portugal , too frequently for comfort.
3/ This failure to investigate properly has boosted the McCanns public profile, helped promote KMs book sales and enabled them to take on further projects. Do you believe , for instance KM would have been made an ambassador for a charity had the Met asked her the same 48 questions she refused to answer in Portugal? I doubt it.
4/ Grange has wasted huge amounts of public money and police time chasing shadows in Portugal which its legal advisors must surely have told them were not viable lines of enquiry. In other words it has done a lot of work and spent a lot of money for the sake of doing it , no other credible reason.
The conclusions here are blatantly obvious.
Operation Grange is a whitewash – a vast PR exercise to promote an abduction scenario that not one shred of evidence exists to support ever even happened.
The implications are equally obvious .
A/ It obstructs the real police investigation going on in Portugal
B/ It potentially supports a criminal fraud of huge proportions the McCanns ongoing business.
C/ It undermines the entire credibility of the whole Metropolitan Police Service ( as if it needed any further help)
D/ It threatens the credibility of the entire UK criminal justice system. In summary Grange is simply corrupt , it has misappropriated huge amounts of public money , it potentially lets child murderers walk free, it is beyond a disgrace, it is worthy of extensive investigation in itself
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 08, 2019, 10:39:41 AM
John Coxon, former Met Police, on Facebook I wish to register a formal complaint in regard to Operation Grange , the so called Met Police search for Madeleine McCann. I do so on the following grounds.
1/ It has blatantly and inexplicably failed to look at the parents and accompanying party as suspects in the investigation.
This is in complete disregard to the findings in the original Portuguese investigation.
Namely
A/ multiple and significant discrepancies in their accounts
B/ deletion of mobile phone data and obstruction of evidence
C/ multiple indications by forensic cadaver and blood dogs in their apartment on Kate McCann’s clothing , the child’s toy and on a vehicle they hired 3 weeks after her disappearance. Also a close DNA match found in the boot of the same vehicle.
D/ An eye witness account naming Gerry McCann as the so called prime suspect, Smith man.
E/ The McCanns refusal to cooperate , answer questions and take part in a reconstruction which shelved the original enquiry
F/ Allegations from two healthcare professionals that at least one of the party , doctor David Payne is a paedophile.
They were made suspects for all these perfectly valid reasons , it is apparent that Operation Grange has failed to address a single one of them. The Portuguese closing report does not exonerate them at all , I presume during the 5 years of its existence Grange was aware of these matters , yet has acted as if none of this ever happened.
More specifically , Met police chief Hogan Howe has on at least one occasion claimed the McCanns have been ” ruled out” , firstly , this is at complete odds with Granges opening statement which claims ” treat the abduction as if it happened yesterday” clearly implying they were totally off the table from the start , secondly it is simply impossible as there is no independent evidence that exonerates them and if there was the McCanns publicity machine would be screaming it from the roof tops.
2/ It is apparent lines of enquiry have been leaked to the media. If this were the case and a live child were being held captive , it would clearly endanger that individuals life, obviously a totally unacceptable situation. Furthermore these leaks have frequently coincided with an ongoing civil case the McCanns are fighting in Portugal , too frequently for comfort.
3/ This failure to investigate properly has boosted the McCanns public profile, helped promote KMs book sales and enabled them to take on further projects. Do you believe , for instance KM would have been made an ambassador for a charity had the Met asked her the same 48 questions she refused to answer in Portugal? I doubt it.
4/ Grange has wasted huge amounts of public money and police time chasing shadows in Portugal which its legal advisors must surely have told them were not viable lines of enquiry. In other words it has done a lot of work and spent a lot of money for the sake of doing it , no other credible reason.
The conclusions here are blatantly obvious.
Operation Grange is a whitewash – a vast PR exercise to promote an abduction scenario that not one shred of evidence exists to support ever even happened.
The implications are equally obvious .
A/ It obstructs the real police investigation going on in Portugal
B/ It potentially supports a criminal fraud of huge proportions the McCanns ongoing business.
C/ It undermines the entire credibility of the whole Metropolitan Police Service ( as if it needed any further help)
D/ It threatens the credibility of the entire UK criminal justice system. In summary Grange is simply corrupt , it has misappropriated huge amounts of public money , it potentially lets child murderers walk free, it is beyond a disgrace, it is worthy of extensive investigation in itself
As you say "non stories" ... so why bring them here? Particularly the two year old blog tirade and opinion piece which I rather think might be a reflection of your opinion.
I think you are illustrating here the sceptic mantra that the only good English cop is one holding McCann sceptic views ... the bad ones are those who are actively looking for Madeleine McCann to resolve what happened to her.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 08, 2019, 10:44:46 AM
Weir that attention should be drawn to a 2 year old article in an apparently fresh article by Tracey.
Perhaps her's is also a regenerated article
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 08, 2019, 10:45:21 AM
As you say "non stories" ... so why bring them here? Particularly the two year old blog tirade and opinion piece which I rather think might be a reflection of your opinion.
I think you are illustrating here the sceptic mantra that the only good English cop is one holding McCann sceptic views ... the bad ones are those who are actively looking for Madeleine McCann to resolve what happened to her.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ...
Actively looking for Madeleine?
4 coppers sat in an office drinking tea.
Have you seen them out searching recently?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 08, 2019, 10:51:30 AM
Maybe this team only exists on paper, and like the new man himself, is actively deployed in more useful police work on a day to day basis.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 08, 2019, 10:57:59 AM
You really know nothing about what the police are doing since both the Policia Judiciaria and Scotland Yard are working as per Portuguese Judicial Secrecy laws which are being operated as they were designed to with no leaks during the investigation.
Is there any reason why your posts appear to reflect contempt for the forces of law and order conducting an active criminal investigation ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: carlymichelle on November 08, 2019, 11:00:58 AM
As you say "non stories" ... so why bring them here? Particularly the two year old blog tirade and opinion piece which I rather think might be a reflection of your opinion.
I think you are illustrating here the sceptic mantra that the only good English cop is one holding McCann sceptic views ... the bad ones are those who are actively looking for Madeleine McCann to resolve what happened to her.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ...
The Sun is also revisiting this story for some reason;
'INSENSITIVE AND SPITEFUL' Madeleine McCann’s parents hit back at ex-cop who branded £12m search for Maddie a ‘waste of resources’ Tracey Kandohla 6 Nov 2019, 23:59Updated: 7 Nov 2019, 1:12
The Sun is also revisiting this story for some reason;
'INSENSITIVE AND SPITEFUL' Madeleine McCann’s parents hit back at ex-cop who branded £12m search for Maddie a ‘waste of resources’ Tracey Kandohla 6 Nov 2019, 23:59Updated: 7 Nov 2019, 1:12
Reporters have to make a living one supposes ... even if the information is dredged up from a two year old opinion piece blog: I posted a pertinent question on another thread ... asked by Isabel Duarte ...
‘How can you find a person when you are not looking for them?’”. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/7215353/Portuguese-police-ignored-Madeleine-McCann-leads.html
Maybe those who purport to 'seek justice for Madeleine McCann' ... might contemplate that question for a while and let us know how they suggest that might be accomplished without working for it or by doing as Paiva did and just consider it all "irrelevant" ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on November 08, 2019, 11:36:46 AM
As you say "non stories" ... so why bring them here? Particularly the two year old blog tirade and opinion piece which I rather think might be a reflection of your opinion.
I think you are illustrating here the sceptic mantra that the only good English cop is one holding McCann sceptic views ... the bad ones are those who are actively looking for Madeleine McCann to resolve what happened to her.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ...
Coxon's article may be two years old,the sun piece is far from it,Madeleine the gift that keeps giving.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on November 08, 2019, 11:42:21 AM
The lead is on Grange part time,he's heading up other murder inquiry's,wonder why a man who is leading them is in charge of a supposed abduction investigation.
SCOTLAND Yard’s hunt for Madeleine McCann is being led by a top murder cop already battling London’s knife crime epidemic, The Sun can reveal.
Det Chief Insp Mark Cranwell has recently been put in part-time charge of Operation Grange, which has cost taxpayers £12 MILLION to date.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on November 08, 2019, 11:45:06 AM
The eagerness of sceptics to have Madeleine McCann's case investigated is not palpable in my opinion ... more imperceptible or even non existent. But to me it is also very revealing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 08, 2019, 01:54:13 PM
The eagerness of sceptics to have Madeleine McCann's case investigated is not palpable in my opinion ... more imperceptible or even non existent. But to me it is also very revealing.
As Coxon quite correctly pointed out, Operation Grange was never fit for purpose. Who knows; a full and free investigation might just have found something.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on November 08, 2019, 04:07:02 PM
The eagerness of sceptics to have Madeleine McCann's case investigated is not palpable in my opinion ... more imperceptible or even non existent. But to me it is also very revealing.
Bizarre sentence construction aside, why is it 'very revealing'?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on November 08, 2019, 04:16:19 PM
The eagerness of sceptics to have Madeleine McCann's case investigated is not palpable in my opinion ... more imperceptible or even non existent. But to me it is also very revealing.
I'm sceptical a true version of events will ever be known,save from a confession.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 08, 2019, 05:05:16 PM
As Coxon quite correctly pointed out, Operation Grange was never fit for purpose. Who knows; a full and free investigation might just have found something.
Any chance of an IMO here? No, didn’t think so...
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Robittybob1 on November 08, 2019, 05:07:22 PM
As Coxon quite correctly pointed out, Operation Grange was never fit for purpose. Who knows; a full and free investigation might just have found something.
In Your Opinion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on November 08, 2019, 05:17:18 PM
As Coxon quite correctly pointed out, Operation Grange was never fit for purpose. Who knows; a full and free investigation might just have found something.
It begs the question as to why SY deemed it necessary to limit the enquiry, that in itself requires a public inquiry imo given the £millions that have been wasted chasing dead ends.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 08, 2019, 05:19:45 PM
Sorry Didn't notice the highlight. "As Coxon quite correctly pointed out, Operation Grange was never fit for purpose." To me this is more like a cite. I'm not checking whether all cites are correct.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 08, 2019, 06:47:29 PM
Sorry Didn't notice the highlight. "As Coxon quite correctly pointed out, Operation Grange was never fit for purpose." To me this is more like a cite. I'm not checking whether all cites are correct.
I give up. 8(8-))
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 08, 2019, 06:49:54 PM
As Andy Redwood quite rightly pointed out, neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects in their daughter’s disappearance (which has all the hallmarks of a stranger abduction).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 08, 2019, 07:02:57 PM
As Andy Redwood quite rightly pointed out, neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects in their daughter’s disappearance (which has all the hallmarks of a stranger abduction).
But that doesn't mean they didn't do it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 08, 2019, 07:11:54 PM
As Andy Redwood quite rightly pointed out, neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects in their daughter’s disappearance (which has all the hallmarks of a stranger abduction).
Operation Gramge have been very clear about that, but have failed to explain why.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 08, 2019, 07:26:56 PM
As Andy Redwood quite rightly pointed out, neither the McCanns nor their friends are suspects in their daughter’s disappearance (which has all the hallmarks of a stranger abduction).
You never know that maybe the very reason its where its at.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 08, 2019, 07:47:34 PM
You don't get to pick and choose who answers. You should know that by now
I’m well aware of that, anyone can answer my posts but likewise I am allowed to say that their replies are of no interest to me, you should know that by now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on November 09, 2019, 10:05:16 AM
You never know that maybe the very reason its where its at.
We don't know 'where it's at' do we? They are not giving a running commentary. The fact they have been given yet more money, to me, shows they are following a lead.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on November 11, 2019, 09:01:35 AM
We don't know 'where it's at' do we? They are not giving a running commentary. The fact they have been given yet more money, to me, shows they are following a lead.
Let's assume that this 'lead', this one remaining lead is as obscure, compelling, elusive and fugacious as possible. What could it possibly be? An elusive person of interest? DNA or other forensic material that is awaiting new, or emerging technology to analyse or unravel, or some other reason for a forensic delay, such as attempting to gain a sample or match? Waiting for a person of interest to make a mistake? Waiting for 'just cause' to execute a warrant? Scouring a large land mass for remnants of evidence, something painstaking and meticulous that requires a team of specialists, like sifting through big data? But the numbers don't support any of those hypotheses, apart from one. £300k for another year seems like a large sum of money, but in policing terms it's actually not much at all. According to fullfact.org a police officer on the lowest pay point would cost £28,600 in London and £25,400 across the rest of England and Wales, including their pay, tax and pensions contributions. After four years’ service, that will usually rise to £35,500 and £32,300 respectively. Let's assume £35k per operative for the year, which is £140,000 for 4 officers. But this is just the standard salary rate - internally they will be assigned a cost code and the 'charge out rate' is often way higher inter-departmentally. Factor in a part-time DI or DCI, then the budget is all but spent - https://www.metfriendly.org.uk/services/police-finance-information/police-pay/ - level 1 inspector = £52,722 + £2,373 / 2 = £27,547. So it would appear just simple bums on seats equates to most of the £300k - without factoring in resources, internal and external - cars and fuel, printing, civvy admin, welfare, assistance with IT / analysis, etc, etc - all of which is internally charegable. What tactic could the investigators be deploying that took so long and required a further injection of funding? What convinced the Home Office that this was worth the continued and costly pursuit? Let's crunch the possibilities. What are the strings to their bow - all of them? Pursuing an elusive person - how elusive would you need to be? Lord Lucan elusive - you have eye witness accounts of your quarry and are actively pursuing them, like hunting for Martin Bormann in remote backwaters in Argentina. Problem is, there's been no appeal for information - the public is not being asked to get involved. You don't want your target to go further underground, but you need more eyes and ears - it's a trade off. Besides the money isn't there to chase a phantom around the globe. Waiting for forensics technology to catch up? Well haven't NSY been offered cutting edge, new analysis of existing data by Dr Mark Perlin, depending on who you believe. The refusal / non-response should not be construed as 'not required' however, as this may also be fraught with legal difficulties, or the samples may not even exist, even if Dr Perlin's credentials and techniques can be verified. How about digging great swathes of Portugal up? The press would be on to that and the resources are mis-matched - it's not happening. Detailed data analysis - again, those resources attract costs and they are finite - there's a queue and priorities, such as heatmapping knife crime, etc. What else? Surveillance. What does surveillance cost if you've already paid for the core team of bums on seats? Not much more. It's business as usual, isn't it? And that, if anything, over and above simply keeping the lights on and the phones answered, seems most plausible. £5k a week is nothing. A routine murder enquiry will burn that in a day (assume 10 officers / support at Met rates as per the cite above). Listening to covert surveillance equipment in a cupboard in London on shifts is just about business as usual. It's costly and time consuming, probably just costly and time consuming to require further, ongoing, indefinite support, but the 'target' would have to be pretty compelling i.e. there's other evidence, but not enough to convince a wary Home Office and a circumspect and nervous CPS.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on November 11, 2019, 09:06:07 AM
We don't know 'where it's at' do we? They are not giving a running commentary. The fact they have been given yet more money, to me, shows they are following a lead.
Or it could be money allocated should it be needed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 11, 2019, 09:14:39 AM
Let's assume that this 'lead', this one remaining lead is as obscure, compelling, elusive and fugacious as possible. What could it possibly be? An elusive person of interest? DNA or other forensic material that is awaiting new, or emerging technology to analyse or unravel, or some other reason for a forensic delay, such as attempting to gain a sample or match? Waiting for a person of interest to make a mistake? Waiting for 'just cause' to execute a warrant? Scouring a large land mass for remnants of evidence, something painstaking and meticulous that requires a team of specialists, like sifting through big data? But the numbers don't support any of those hypotheses, apart from one. £300k for another year seems like a large sum of money, but in policing terms it's actually not much at all. According to fullfact.org a police officer on the lowest pay point would cost £28,600 in London and £25,400 across the rest of England and Wales, including their pay, tax and pensions contributions. After four years’ service, that will usually rise to £35,500 and £32,300 respectively. Let's assume £35k per operative for the year, which is £140,000 for 4 officers. But this is just the standard salary rate - internally they will be assigned a cost code and the 'charge out rate' is often way higher inter-departmentally. Factor in a part-time DI or DCI, then the budget is all but spent - https://www.metfriendly.org.uk/services/police-finance-information/police-pay/ - level 1 inspector = £52,722 + £2,373 / 2 = £27,547. So it would appear just simple bums on seats equates to most of the £300k - without factoring in resources, internal and external - cars and fuel, printing, civvy admin, welfare, assistance with IT / analysis, etc, etc - all of which is internally charegable. What tactic could the investigators be deploying that took so long and required a further injection of funding? What convinced the Home Office that this was worth the continued and costly pursuit? Let's crunch the possibilities. What are the strings to their bow - all of them? Pursuing an elusive person - how elusive would you need to be? Lord Lucan elusive - you have eye witness accounts of your quarry and are actively pursuing them, like hunting for Martin Bormann in remote backwaters in Argentina. Problem is, there's been no appeal for information - the public is not being asked to get involved. You don't want your target to go further underground, but you need more eyes and ears - it's a trade off. Besides the money isn't there to chase a phantom around the globe. Waiting for forensics technology to catch up? Well haven't NSY been offered cutting edge, new analysis of existing data by Dr Mark Perlin, depending on who you believe. The refusal / non-response should not be construed as 'not required' however, as this may also be fraught with legal difficulties, or the samples may not even exist, even if Dr Perlin's credentials and techniques can be verified. How about digging great swathes of Portugal up? The press would be on to that and the resources are mis-matched - it's not happening. Detailed data analysis - again, those resources attract costs and they are finite - there's a queue and priorities, such as heatmapping knife crime, etc. What else? Surveillance. What does surveillance cost if you've already paid for the core team of bums on seats? Not much more. It's business as usual, isn't it? And that, if anything, over and above simply keeping the lights on and the phones answered, seems most plausible. £5k a week is nothing. A routine murder enquiry will burn that in a day (assume 10 officers / support at Met rates as per the cite above). Listening to covert surveillance equipment in a cupboard in London on shifts is just about business as usual. It's costly and time consuming, probably just costly and time consuming to require further, ongoing, indefinite support, but the 'target' would have to be pretty compelling i.e. there's other evidence, but not enough to convince a wary Home Office and a circumspect and nervous CPS.
Do you think there are four undercover cops trailing the McCanns all day every day waiting for them to let slip they know where the body is then?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anthro on November 11, 2019, 09:28:37 AM
If, hypothetically, an individual’s DNA has only been captured for the first time one year ago on an European database and that person is currently awaiting trial for murder (to start on 20 November), but s/he is now also positively linked to Madeleine’s disappearance - would Operation Grange be allowed to continue pursuing such an individual or must his/her current trial first be dealt with?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on November 11, 2019, 09:31:11 AM
If, hypothetically, an individual’s DNA has only been captured for the first time one year ago on an European database and that person is currently awaiting trial for murder (to start on 20 November), but s/he is now also positively linked to Madeleine’s disappearance - would Operation Grange be allowed to continue pursuing such an individual or must his/her current trial first be dealt with?
Its a PJ case it would be up to them.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: ShiningInLuz on November 11, 2019, 09:46:17 AM
If, hypothetically, an individual’s DNA has only been captured for the first time one year ago on an European database and that person is currently awaiting trial for murder (to start on 20 November), but s/he is now also positively linked to Madeleine’s disappearance - would Operation Grange be allowed to continue pursuing such an individual or must his/her current trial first be dealt with?
One potential fly in the ointment is how Portugal accesses cases involving DNA.
One is not permitted to trawl through a given case DNA unless one has probable cause.
I.e. OG would need to have a case solid enough to implicate an individual in MBM's disappearance (solid enough to pass the scrutiny of Portuguese judiciary) BEFORE they could say let's check the MBM case DNA against said bod.
The Portuguese approach was developed because authorities were worried that big brother might be watching you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 11, 2019, 10:02:56 AM
People tend to forget that Operation Grange isn't in charge of this case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 11, 2019, 10:09:47 AM
One wouldn't think so given the £millions they have spent on it and achieved absolutely nothing.
They've managed to damage their own reputation, imo. That's an achievement of sorts. On the plus side we don't have any more inadequate/dodgy 'private investigators' winding the media up with their daft theories.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 11, 2019, 04:27:58 PM
To be fair, the Met were bounced into it by an opportunistic and naive Prime Minister, eager for some popularity. It will continue, seemingly for ever as no one will want to be known as the one who pulled the plug on 'Little Maddie'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on November 11, 2019, 05:29:43 PM
To be fair, the Met were bounced into it by an opportunistic and naive Prime Minister, eager for some popularity. It will continue, seemingly for ever as no one will want to be known as the one who pulled the plug on 'Little Maddie'
They'll have no option once the statute of limitations kicks in,2022? Rowley in 2017 said the Metropolitan police contribution won't go on for as long has it has been going,that was 3 yrs ago,it was going for 6 prior to that,not long now.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 11, 2019, 05:45:30 PM
They'll have no option once the statute of limitations kicks in,2022? Rowley in 2017 said the Metropolitan police contribution won't go on for as long has it has been going,that was 3 yrs ago,it was going for 6 prior to that,not long now.
You've lost me there, Barrier. Statute of limitations 2022 ??
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on November 11, 2019, 05:48:43 PM
You've lost me there, Barrier. Statute of limitations 2022 ??
Portugal.
Portuguese Penal Code - Article 118 Terms of prescription
1. The criminal proceedings extinguishes through the effect of prescription as soon as from the exertion of the crime has elapsed the following terms: a) 15 years, concerning crime punishable with prison penalty for a maximum limit superior to 10 years. b) 10 years, when it concerns crimes punishable with prison penalties with a maximum term equal or superior to 5 years, but not exceeding 10 years. c) 5 years, when it concerns crimes punishable with prison penalties with a maximum term equal or superior to one year, but inferior to 5 years.
Portuguese Penal Code - Article 118 Terms of prescription
1. The criminal proceedings extinguishes through the effect of prescription as soon as from the exertion of the crime has elapsed the following terms: a) 15 years, concerning crime punishable with prison penalty for a maximum limit superior to 10 years. b) 10 years, when it concerns crimes punishable with prison penalties with a maximum term equal or superior to 5 years, but not exceeding 10 years. c) 5 years, when it concerns crimes punishable with prison penalties with a maximum term equal or superior to one year, but inferior to 5 years.
Of course I don’t but it doesn’t stop me wondering. People here like to scoff and jeer at the Met but surely far more worthy of questioning is the police force in charge that don’t appear to be doing anything at all to help solve the case.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 11, 2019, 06:43:21 PM
Portuguese Penal Code - Article 118 Terms of prescription
1. The criminal proceedings extinguishes through the effect of prescription as soon as from the exertion of the crime has elapsed the following terms: a) 15 years, concerning crime punishable with prison penalty for a maximum limit superior to 10 years. b) 10 years, when it concerns crimes punishable with prison penalties with a maximum term equal or superior to 5 years, but not exceeding 10 years. c) 5 years, when it concerns crimes punishable with prison penalties with a maximum term equal or superior to one year, but inferior to 5 years.
You appear to have misread barriers post. Try point 1a again.
So I have, I guess it was the gobbledygoogletranslate that threw me. So murderers and child abductor/rapists get a free pass after 15 years? That’s appalling IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 11, 2019, 07:21:53 PM
‘What if OG have no evidence Madeleine left Portugal, what then’?
And on the flipside, what if OG have evidence that Madeleine left Portugal alive?
Rowley 2017,we have no definitive evidence if she is alive or dead,given they had a high profile dig in front of the world's press,wonder where their thoughts are. Something/someone somewhere must have convinced them to dig the waste land,something/someone somewhere must have convinced the police to excavate in the Needham case,someone/something somewhere must have convinced the police to recently dig a garden and field in the search for Suzi lamplugh. Not alot or even any sign the police looked elsewhere in the Madeleine case. What did Smithman do with the body,its the key and always as been and will be,all imo one understands.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on November 12, 2019, 05:39:57 PM
Discussion about the latest news. Not Search Related.
Off Topic Posts will be removed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on November 12, 2019, 09:04:43 PM
Rowley 2017,we have no definitive evidence if she is alive or dead,given they had a high profile dig in front of the world's press,wonder where their thoughts are. Something/someone somewhere must have convinced them to dig the waste land,something/someone somewhere must have convinced the police to excavate in the Needham case,someone/something somewhere must have convinced the police to recently dig a garden and field in the search for Suzi lamplugh. Not alot or even any sign the police looked elsewhere in the Madeleine case. What did Smithman do with the body,its the key and always as been and will be,all imo one understands.
I tend to agree that Smithman is a key player, even Amaral thought so. Redwood must have also been convinced so little wonder that they dug up parts of the scrubland bordering the beach beyond the point where Smithman was seen. She could well have been dumped there but later moved.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on November 13, 2019, 12:43:08 PM
That's a good point. A body could have been hidden anywhere for a short time and later moved way before the dogs arrived.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on November 13, 2019, 01:37:01 PM
I have seen no reports of a problem with 'wild dogs' in Luz.
This comes following complaints in recent weeks from residents on the opposite side of Lagos, in the Monte São Pedro area of Valeverde, in Luz, of a similar problem. Locals there claim a large pack of roaming dogs is “growing and becoming increasingly more aggressive.” A resident in that area told The Portugal News “there are many stories of people who were attacked, animals that were attacked... I’ve lived in Monte São Pedro for little over a year and as soon as I moved here I was warned by another resident that whenever I walk my dog outside the complex I should take a stick, because ‘there are stray dogs in the area that every now and then attack’”. The resident went on to say that the dogs in question were “initially one or two but now are six adult dogs.” “This is an area that is used frequently by walkers, people exercising, cycling, and I’m worried that one of these days it’s going to end badly. I don’t walk outside the complex anymore and I have also banned my daughter from it. It’s a shame because it is a lovely place, especially to walk our dog.” Regarding the situation in Arão, the resident said “I hadn’t heard about it but I’m not surprised. Unfortunately there is still a lot to be done for animals that are abandoned or left to their own devices, and in those cases instinct takes over.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 13, 2019, 02:21:08 PM
What about the wild dogs roaming around, they would easily find a buried body.
Perhaps they did.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on November 13, 2019, 04:20:03 PM
Plus, as Amaral said the ground was very hard and dry that was why he couldn't bury his dog. So someone trying to bury a body of a child, would find it very hard work.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 13, 2019, 04:33:12 PM
Plus, as Amaral said the ground was very hard and dry that was why he couldn't bury his dog. So someone trying to bury a body of a child, would find it very hard work.
Did Amaral try to bury his dog in PDL in early May?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on November 13, 2019, 04:37:09 PM
Plus, as Amaral said the ground was very hard and dry that was why he couldn't bury his dog. So someone trying to bury a body of a child, would find it very hard work.
Didn't seem to cross the minds of grange though did it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on November 13, 2019, 04:40:33 PM
Plus, as Amaral said the ground was very hard and dry that was why he couldn't bury his dog. So someone trying to bury a body of a child, would find it very hard work.
So the ground in his backyard is representative of the ground across Southern Portugal now? If a hypothetical someone couldn't muster the wherewithal to dig a hole in wet sand, then I'm afraid humanity is essentially doomed.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 13, 2019, 06:00:04 PM
So the ground in his backyard is representative of the ground across Southern Portugal now? If a hypothetical someone couldn't muster the wherewithal to dig a hole in wet sand, then I'm afraid humanity is essentially doomed.
Not a good idea trying to hide a body in wet sand, imo.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on November 13, 2019, 07:10:54 PM
So the ground in his backyard is representative of the ground across Southern Portugal now? If a hypothetical someone couldn't muster the wherewithal to dig a hole in wet sand, then I'm afraid humanity is essentially doomed.
Amaral was wondering what they could have done with Madeleine's body, he said it the ground was too hard and dry for burial, he give the idea that they put her in a bin IMO
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on November 13, 2019, 07:23:14 PM
Did Amaral try to bury his dog in PDL in early May?
From Amaral's book -
I receive a phone call from Sofia, who insists on my going home: our Shitzu dog is dead. She found it that morning, lifeless on the ground, with a head injury. She did everything to make sure the girls did not see it, but she didn’t have the courage to remove him. When I arrive, everyone is already in bed. I place the Shitzu in a plastic bag, not sure about where I am going to be able to bury him. The ground is hard here. it’s not easy to dig a hole and I hardly have the time for it. I decide to drop his remains into a bin. The animal is small, but he seems to weigh more than usual. I use my car to take her. As I am getting rid of it, I realise just how easy it is to hide a body – and how difficult it is to bury….When I get back, I discuss it with Sofia: she is afraid. She asks me to abandon the investigation and to worry about our daughters rather than other people’s. For her, the dog’s death is a bad omen. I reply that she is unfair, that her fears are irrational. Justice must be done for Madeleine, as for all other children and adults. It’s my duty as a police officer: to seek the truth so that justice may be done.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 13, 2019, 07:26:32 PM
Kate was the first to believe Maddie could be in the bin.
Whatever gave her that idea.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 13, 2019, 07:33:11 PM
Kate was the first to believe Maddie could be in the bin.
Whatever gave her that idea.
yeah obviously if you drug a child to death and hide her body in a bin you’re basically going to suggest to the police that’s what happened if you want to throw them off the track.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 13, 2019, 07:43:25 PM
yeah obviously if you drug a child to death and hide her body in a bin you’re basically going to suggest to the police that’s what happened if you want to throw them off the track.
She waited until her book release before divulging it. Cops would have a tough time finding Maddie under a years layer of trash imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 13, 2019, 07:49:33 PM
Shame the portuguese police are so incompetent it didn’t even occur to them that’s what she done until they read it in the killer’s memoir innit.
Yes. They should have halted all refuse collections & searched the trash instead of wasting time looking for an abductor that didn't exist. It's standard procedure in the states these days, halting bin collections in missing child cases. Even though parents never put their dead kids in the bin, innit.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 13, 2019, 08:29:04 PM
Yes. They should have halted all refuse collections & searched the trash instead of wasting time looking for an abductor that didn't exist. It's standard procedure in the states these days, halting bin collections in missing child cases. Even though parents never put their dead kids in the bin, innit.
Yes they should have searched the trash because although disposing of kids’ bodies by this method is usually the preserve of the kids parents, it’s not unheard of for murderous b........ abductor types to use this method also.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on November 14, 2019, 09:19:47 AM
Kate was the first to believe Maddie could be in the bin.
Whatever gave her that idea.
It's where an abductor might have placed her body, but the bins around the area of the Tapas bar were searched, the Nannies said they were told to check the bins.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on November 14, 2019, 09:22:16 AM
Yes. They should have halted all refuse collections & searched the trash instead of wasting time looking for an abductor that didn't exist. It's standard procedure in the states these days, halting bin collections in missing child cases. Even though parents never put their dead kids in the bin, innit.
Yes another thing Amaral slipped up on. In the UK video cameras are checked, even if there is a fight and someone got hurt, or a burglary, let alone a missing child. Another thing Amaral slipped up on.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 14, 2019, 09:27:10 AM
Which cameras did you have in mind ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 14, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
It's where an abductor might have placed her body, but the bins around the area of the Tapas bar were searched, the Nannies said they were told to check the bins.
The only nanny who mentioned bins was Charlotte Pennington, and her pronouncements were hardly reliable imo. Who mentioned the bins near the Tapas bar in particular?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 14, 2019, 10:13:01 AM
The only nanny who mentioned bins was Charlotte Pennington, and her pronouncements were hardly reliable imo. Who mentioned the bins near the Tapas bar in particular?
Could you please draw up a list of witnesses whose pronouncements you consider reliable and why? Much obliged.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on November 14, 2019, 10:32:40 AM
Not a good idea trying to hide a body in wet sand, imo.
I don't think so either, certainly not a shallow hole anyway, in my experience; I was alluding to the fact that there are several different ground conditions, all with varying degrees of 'hardness'. The whole of southern Portugal is not uniform, so simply stating that the ground is baked, even in May, is superfluous.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on November 14, 2019, 10:34:30 AM
I've started up a new thread to discuss the above posts:
Yes another thing Amaral slipped up on. In the UK video cameras are checked, even if there is a fight and someone got hurt, or a burglary, let alone a missing child. Another thing Amaral slipped up on.
OK, OK, we get it......another thing. You think CCTV wasn't checked?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on November 14, 2019, 10:58:47 AM
I don't think so either, certainly not a shallow hole anyway, in my experience; I was alluding to the fact that there are several different ground conditions, all with varying degrees of 'hardness'. The whole of southern Portugal is not uniform, so simply stating that the ground is baked, even in May, is superfluous.
Amaral seemed to rule it out and one would suppose he knows more about digging holes in the Portuguese terrain than either you or I.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Holly Goodhead on November 14, 2019, 10:06:33 PM
I have written a blog article which has a clearer picture of that visit.
It sparked off a thought about what I might ask the McCanns if I ever bumped into them.
I sincerely hope you would have the decency and manners not to accost the McCanns in such an intrusive and uncalled for way were they ever to have the misfortune of dining in the same restaurant as you.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 17, 2019, 02:13:47 PM
I have written a blog article which has a clearer picture of that visit.
It sparked off a thought about what I might ask the McCanns if I ever bumped into them.
While dining privately in a restaurant a McCann stalker has seen fit to surreptitiously photograph and post on social media for the edification of critics many of whom bemoan the couples' alleged publicity seeking. I doubt if you could make it up. I have no idea what you have posted on your blog ... my only thought is ... why on earth would you want to be associated with such an invasion of privacy? At least the twins photographs weren't posted on this occasion.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 17, 2019, 02:31:23 PM
While dining privately in a restaurant a McCann stalker has seen fit to surreptitiously photograph and post on social media for the edification of critics many of whom bemoan the couples' alleged publicity seeking. I doubt if you could make it up. I have no idea what you have posted on your blog ... my only thought is ... why on earth would you want to be associated with such an invasion of privacy? At least the twins photographs weren't posted on this occasion.
Since you haven't read my blog and therefore clearly haven't got a clue what you are talking about, perhaps you would have been wiser to say nothing.
Actually, there's no perhaps about it.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 17, 2019, 04:41:51 PM
Can one dine privately in a public restaurant?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 17, 2019, 04:54:19 PM
Since you haven't read my blog and therefore clearly haven't got a clue what you are talking about, perhaps you would have been wiser to say nothing.
Actually, there's no perhaps about it.
Since i have read your blog ...so I know what im talking about. I think you would be foolish and rude enough to try and speak to the mccanns if you bumped into them...just my opinion
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 17, 2019, 05:10:48 PM
Since you haven't read my blog and therefore clearly haven't got a clue what you are talking about, perhaps you would have been wiser to say nothing.
Actually, there's no perhaps about it.
There is nothing unwise in what Brietta posted, she merely asked why you would want to be associated with such an invasion of privacy which is a perfectly legitimate question. What do you think gives you the right to approach the McCanns when they are dining out with your list of (imo quite stupid) questions?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on November 17, 2019, 05:37:14 PM
One can expect not to be approached by a strange old man asking you what was on telly when you were on holiday 12 years previously IMO.
its a very strange suggestion...if a strange old man approached me and started asking personal questions he would quite rightly get a nudge in the nuts
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 17, 2019, 05:57:28 PM
its a very strange suggestion...if a strange old man approached me and started asking personal questions he would quite rightly get a nudge in the nuts
It seems some people think the McCanns owe them answers. How entitled some people believe themselves to be!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on November 17, 2019, 06:02:01 PM
When you dine out do you think a stranger is entitled to stalk you, take your photograph without your knowledge and to post it on the internet without your permission ? Speaking for myself, I would be concerned for my personal security - and that of my friends and family - at the knowledge that an unknown individual very possibly of unsound mind given his/her proven unhealthy interest in my whereabouts has made his/her target when I am out for a meal.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anthro on November 17, 2019, 06:05:53 PM
Why is the animosity, by some, towards the McCanns so severe and often veiled as subtext? Is it in essence aimed at them, or rather a system that decides how citizens’ contribution towards the coffers is allocated? Please remove if this is considered to be ‘off topic’.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 17, 2019, 06:07:10 PM
Not sure whether it was a stalker or opportunistic journalism , considering that the photos were part of a newspaper article.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 17, 2019, 06:07:20 PM
Why is the animosity, by some, towards the McCanns so severe and often veiled as subtext? Is it in essence aimed at them, or rather a system that decides how citizens’ contribution towards the coffers is allocated? Please remove if this is considered to be ‘off topic’.
This question should have its own thread.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 17, 2019, 06:10:05 PM
Not sure whether it was a stalker or opportunistic journalism , considering that the photos were part of a newspaper article.
The photos were taken by a facebook troll who set up a fake profile in Madeleine’s name to taunt the McCanns. I expect you find that perfectly acceptable behaviour but not everyone shares your values (or lack of them).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 17, 2019, 06:14:15 PM
The photos were taken by a facebook troll who set up a fake profile in Madeleine’s name to taunt the McCanns. I expect you find that perfectly acceptable behaviour but not everyone shares your values (or lack of them).
I don't find it acceptable but I have no responsibility for whatever others do. This person obviously feels very strongly about the subject. That is their right, provided they stay within the law.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on November 17, 2019, 06:15:38 PM
The photos were taken by a facebook troll who set up a fake profile in Madeleine’s name to taunt the McCanns. I expect you find that perfectly acceptable behaviour but not everyone shares your values (or lack of them).
The McCanns don't use social media so they wouldn't have known anything about it had the mainstream media not been so insensitive in broadcasting the harmless trolling.
One thing I noticed from the pictures is that I have bigger boobs than Kate.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 17, 2019, 06:35:39 PM
The McCanns don't use social media so they wouldn't have known anything about it had the mainstream media not been so insensitive in broadcasting the harmless trolling.
One thing I noticed from the pictures is that I have bigger boobs than Kate.
I thought the McCanns had an official facebook page? Congratulations on your moobs btw, you must be delighted.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on November 17, 2019, 06:37:37 PM
I don't find it acceptable but I have no responsibility for whatever others do. This person obviously feels very strongly about the subject. That is their right, provided they stay within the law.
Did I accuse you of having responsibility for whatever others do? People can do all sorts of nasty, vindictive, spiteful, immoral, b........ things that are within the law and it is also within the law to name and shame such people for their actions, IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Lace on November 19, 2019, 01:17:02 PM
I don't find it acceptable but I have no responsibility for whatever others do. This person obviously feels very strongly about the subject. That is their right, provided they stay within the law.
You say 'this person obviously feels very strongly about the subject' subject of what? Kate and Gerry dining out?
It wasn't against the law, but you must ask yourself 'why' this person is certainly obsessed with the McCann's.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on November 19, 2019, 01:38:25 PM
I was meaning the Madeleine McCann affair generally. It seems to attract obsessives among both sceptics and supporters
Everybody commenting here is obsessive to some degree.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 22, 2020, 11:08:47 PM
Madeleine McCann police quiz British expat barmaid over her German ex-boyfriend
Madeleine McCann police quiz British expat barmaid over her German ex-boyfriend
Police probing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have quizzed a British barmaid about her German ex-boyfriend.
Carol Hickman, 59, was asked for information on Michael Jehle, 51, who lives near Praia da Luz – where Maddie, three, vanished in 2007.
But Mr Jehle insisted to the Sunday Mirror: “I don’t know about Maddie. Police know where I live.”
Barmaid Carol Hickman told of her shock today.
Expat Carol – who works at Kelly’s Bar just 450 metres from where Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007 – said two plain-clothed officers acting for Scotland Yard asked about the German decorator.
They wanted phone numbers and any Facebook contact.
The Sunday Mirror has learned another of his exes was quizzed in 2007 – and had her freezer searched.
As the mystery deepened yesterday, baffled Carol, 59, described Mr Jehle as “a friendly hippy”.
And when our team tracked him down he said he had nothing to hide.
Carol said officers from the Portuguese Judicial Police were trying to trace her ex and another of his old flames, a German woman.
Carol, 59, who has lived on the Algarve since 1997, told us: “They came into the bar and said ‘You can thank Her Majesty for this visit’.
"That’s when I knew they were from Scotland Yard. They asked if I could remember May 3, 2007.
“Of course I remember. I was in the bar and we had a call from friends saying a little girl had vanished. We went out on the search and we were out all night.”
Carol said the police visited her two weeks ago – first at the bar, followed by an interview at her home.
She went on: “They were asking about Madeleine and interested in my German ex-boyfriend.
"We were in an 18-month relationship, but at the time of Maddie’s disappearance hadn’t been together for years.
“There’s no reason to suspect him at all. I’m amazed I’m being asked about him. He was a friendly hippy.
"I just find it so strange, the whole thing. The police asked if I had any contact numbers or if I was friends on Facebook, but I’m not.”
She was working at Kelly's Bar on 3 May 2007. If they didn't ask her any questions about the Smiths visit that night then off with their heads 8)--))
The article doesn't say she was working in Kelly's Bar on 3/5/07, only that she was in the bar when she had a phone call notifying her about Madeleine's disappearance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on February 23, 2020, 01:37:28 AM
After 11 years is really as far as the investigation has progressed....trying to get ex-girlfriends to look on individuals social media.....really ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 23, 2020, 08:45:40 AM
SY just can't roll up to any old place and start questioning,the defence are going to have a field day with this bunch,remember the ILOR's in 2014.Seriously this is to believed?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 23, 2020, 08:53:25 AM
More evidence.. Or proof... That the parents, are not suspects or being investigated... No wonder the sceptics are angry this morning
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 23, 2020, 08:57:38 AM
She was working at Kelly's Bar on 3 May 2007. If they didn't ask her any questions about the Smiths visit that night then off with their heads 8)--))
The Judicial Police didn't know about the Smiths or their sighting until nearly a fortnight after the event when Peter Smith apparently thought he dreamt it. So ... back on with their heads ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 23, 2020, 09:17:24 AM
After 11 years is really as far as the investigation has progressed....trying to get ex-girlfriends to look on individuals social media.....really ?
I am of the opinion that the ex-girlfriend should have kept her mouth firmly closed about her visit from the police for two reasons
respecting her ex-boyfriend's privacy
respecting the Portuguese law on the privacy of an active investigation
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 23, 2020, 09:26:58 AM
A Scotland Yard spokesperson tonight said: 'The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains ongoing. We are not providing a running commentary.'
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 23, 2020, 09:30:01 AM
A Scotland Yard spokesperson tonight said: 'The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann remains ongoing. We are not providing a running commentary.'
Doesn’t stop people they have questioned from going to the press though, as has clearly happened here (unless of course you believe this woman made the whole thing up).
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 23, 2020, 09:36:52 AM
Doesn’t stop people they have questioned from going to the press though, as has clearly happened here (unless of course you believe this woman made the whole thing up).
Gets the juices of some flowing it seems,still "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth".Full marks to SY if true,covering all bases,they're getting there slowly slowly catchy monkey,and the guy living 20 miles away just waiting for plod isn't the one.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 23, 2020, 09:46:57 AM
Gets the juices of some flowing it seems,still "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth".Full marks to SY if true,covering all bases,they're getting there slowly slowly catchy monkey,and the guy living 20 miles away just waiting for plod isn't the one.
if you think that the mccanns involvement is proven because an abductor cant be found....its just too absurd for words
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 23, 2020, 09:55:44 AM
Gets the juices of some flowing it seems,still "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth".Full marks to SY if true,covering all bases,they're getting there slowly slowly catchy monkey,and the guy living 20 miles away just waiting for plod isn't the one.
If Madeleine came to harm at the hands of another do you not suppose that it was by someone who was in the area at the time of the disappearance or would it make more sense to you for the police to investigate people who lived further than 20 miles away on the basis that they’d not investigated them before?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 23, 2020, 10:03:20 AM
if you think that the mccanns involvement is proven because an abductor cant be found....its just too absurd for words
Yes I have often heard this excuse. It boggles the mind that supposedly sentient beings can arrive at this conclusion simply to excuse the actions of the police.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 23, 2020, 10:20:06 AM
If Madeleine came to harm at the hands of another do you not suppose that it was by someone who was in the area at the time of the disappearance or would it make more sense to you for the police to investigate people who lived further than 20 miles away on the basis that they’d not investigated them before?
Smiths came from Kelly's bar,tying up loose ends,any case will have to be water tight and then some.No room for error.IMO all movements have to accounted for on the evening of 3/05/2007.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on February 23, 2020, 10:41:10 AM
Smiths came from Kelly's bar,tying up loose ends,any case will have to be water tight and then some.No room for error.IMO all movements have to accounted for on the evening of 3/05/2007.
Right, so you really ARE one of those poor deluded souls whi believe the police are just clearing the ground before proceeding to the main course, ie: the McCanns. Hilarious!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 23, 2020, 11:10:27 AM
Right, so you really ARE one of those poor deluded souls whi believe the police are just clearing the ground before proceeding to the main course, ie: the McCanns. Hilarious!
Sigh! read my tag line.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 23, 2020, 11:13:05 AM
The Judicial Police didn't know about the Smiths or their sighting until nearly a fortnight after the event when Peter Smith apparently thought he dreamt it. So ... back on with their heads ?
Kelly's bar is important in this case to corroborate the timeline and nail Smithman.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Angelo222 on February 23, 2020, 05:47:37 PM
Madeleine McCann police quiz British expat barmaid over her German ex-boyfriend
Madeleine McCann police quiz British expat barmaid over her German ex-boyfriend
Police probing the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have quizzed a British barmaid about her German ex-boyfriend.
Carol Hickman, 59, was asked for information on Michael Jehle, 51, who lives near Praia da Luz – where Maddie, three, vanished in 2007.
But Mr Jehle insisted to the Sunday Mirror: “I don’t know about Maddie. Police know where I live.”
Barmaid Carol Hickman told of her shock today.
Expat Carol – who works at Kelly’s Bar just 450 metres from where Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007 – said two plain-clothed officers acting for Scotland Yard asked about the German decorator.
They wanted phone numbers and any Facebook contact.
The Sunday Mirror has learned another of his exes was quizzed in 2007 – and had her freezer searched.
As the mystery deepened yesterday, baffled Carol, 59, described Mr Jehle as “a friendly hippy”.
And when our team tracked him down he said he had nothing to hide.
Carol said officers from the Portuguese Judicial Police were trying to trace her ex and another of his old flames, a German woman.
Carol, 59, who has lived on the Algarve since 1997, told us: “They came into the bar and said ‘You can thank Her Majesty for this visit’.
"That’s when I knew they were from Scotland Yard. They asked if I could remember May 3, 2007.
“Of course I remember. I was in the bar and we had a call from friends saying a little girl had vanished. We went out on the search and we were out all night.”
Carol said the police visited her two weeks ago – first at the bar, followed by an interview at her home.
She went on: “They were asking about Madeleine and interested in my German ex-boyfriend.
"We were in an 18-month relationship, but at the time of Maddie’s disappearance hadn’t been together for years.
“There’s no reason to suspect him at all. I’m amazed I’m being asked about him. He was a friendly hippy.
"I just find it so strange, the whole thing. The police asked if I had any contact numbers or if I was friends on Facebook, but I’m not.”
Scotland Yard officers have no authority to question anyone in Portugal so this woman didn't even need to speak to them. If two officers from SY turned up without PJ being in attendance then they are out of order. Only a PJ detective has any authority to question people in Portugal and then only in certain circumstances.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 23, 2020, 05:48:02 PM
Kelly's bar is important in this case to corroborate the timeline and nail Smithman.
From the mirror article.
It is the second time Kelly’s Bar – a four-minute walk from the McCanns’ apartment – has been mentioned in the investigation.
On the night Madeleine vanished Martin Smith, from Co Louth, Ireland, was there with his family.
As they left they saw a man carrying a small blonde girl who they believe to be Madeleine. Tonight, the memory remained vivid as Martin told the Sunday Mirror: “I’d say it was definitely the child.
"I’d say it definitely had to be. The place was very quiet at that time of year so I’d say it was definitely the child.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 23, 2020, 05:59:13 PM
Scotland Yard officers have no authority to question anyone in Portugal so this woman didn't even need to speak to them. If two officers from SY turned up without PJ being in attendance then they are out of order. Only a PJ detective has any authority to question people in Portugal and then only in certain circumstances.
SY just can't roll up to any old place and start questioning,the defence are going to have a field day with this bunch,remember the ILOR's in 2014.Seriously this is to believed?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on February 23, 2020, 06:00:26 PM
I doubt SY rolled up without the PJ
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on February 23, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
Scotland Yard officers have no authority to question anyone in Portugal so this woman didn't even need to speak to them. If two officers from SY turned up without PJ being in attendance then they are out of order. Only a PJ detective has any authority to question people in Portugal and then only in certain circumstances.
I agree. But I don't think anything has been done by Scotland Yard without the full knowledge, assistance and co-operation of the Judicial Police.
Snip Expat Carol said two plain-clothed officers acting for Scotland Yard asked about the German decorator.
_________________________________
Carol said officers from the Portuguese Judicial Police were trying to trace her ex and another of his old flames, a German woman.
_________________________________
Carol, 59, who has lived on the Algarve since 1997, said: “They came into the bar and said ‘You can thank Her Majesty for this visit’.
"That’s when I knew they were from Scotland Yard. https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/madeleine-mccann-police-question-brit-17798566
I think it possible that the police she refers to are Portuguese ... but whatever, if they were SY I doubt very much if they were acting without the PJ being in attendance.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on February 23, 2020, 06:56:09 PM
Scotland Yard officers have no authority to question anyone in Portugal so this woman didn't even need to speak to them. If two officers from SY turned up without PJ being in attendance then they are out of order. Only a PJ detective has any authority to question people in Portugal and then only in certain circumstances.
From the article you quoted
“Carol said officers from the Portuguese Judicial Police were trying to trace her ex and another of his old flames, a German woman.”
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: pathfinder73 on February 23, 2020, 07:19:30 PM
Damn right as he was the one carrying Madeleine away. He doesn't want to show his face so you have to do it for him.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on February 28, 2020, 09:57:56 AM
I see that the UK intends to withdraw from the European Arrest Warrant mechanism. I wonder what, if any, effect this may have on any future prosecution in the Madeleine McCann case ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: misty on February 28, 2020, 01:37:39 PM
I see that the UK intends to withdraw from the European Arrest Warrant mechanism. I wonder what, if any, effect this may have on any future prosecution in the Madeleine McCann case ?
The EAW is not without its faults and the process can be abused by the State. I think anyone who may be subjected to an EAW in the McCanc case will need a very good team of lawyers.
also https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/28/football-leaks-rui-pinto-in-prison-with-hard-drive-passwords-in-his-head *snipped* The 31-year-old, who created the Football Leaks website which provided some of the evidence that led to Manchester City’s Champions League ban and numerous other investigations into tax evasion and corruption in football and beyond, is still awaiting trial for alleged extortion, violation of secrecy and illegally accessing information despite being extradited to his homeland from Hungary in March 2019. Last week, his lawyers filed a complaint to the European Commission over inconsistencies in the original arrest warrant that accused Pinto of only six offences before that was increased to 147 while he was in custody.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on March 01, 2020, 10:05:25 PM
Nothing has been reported about drug processing. Drug dealing happens all over the place. The media suggested the area was full of militant muslims. Not everyone agrees;
Vincent Kompany defends Molenbeek: 'It's not what the media makes it out to be' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/vincent-kompany-defends-molenbeek-its-not-what-the-media-makes-it-out-to-be-a6790736.html
I got hold of an official document outlining the huge druggie connections between the Rif mountains of Morocco and Molenbeek St John in central Brussels
A long document; it is with SY, so I cannot share it.
ETA: Soz. Posted in the wrong thread, will copy it over if I am able
But I do wonder if that is something being investigated, cos human trafficking is also known to be practiced by people who also drug deal and smuggle.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on March 02, 2020, 08:59:35 AM
I see that the UK intends to withdraw from the European Arrest Warrant mechanism. I wonder what, if any, effect this may have on any future prosecution in the Madeleine McCann case ?
This case may well end with an unexpected twist such as this.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on March 02, 2020, 09:02:25 AM
The EAW is not without its faults and the process can be abused by the State. I think anyone who may be subjected to an EAW in the McCanc case will need a very good team of lawyers.
also https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/feb/28/football-leaks-rui-pinto-in-prison-with-hard-drive-passwords-in-his-head *snipped* The 31-year-old, who created the Football Leaks website which provided some of the evidence that led to Manchester City’s Champions League ban and numerous other investigations into tax evasion and corruption in football and beyond, is still awaiting trial for alleged extortion, violation of secrecy and illegally accessing information despite being extradited to his homeland from Hungary in March 2019. Last week, his lawyers filed a complaint to the European Commission over inconsistencies in the original arrest warrant that accused Pinto of only six offences before that was increased to 147 while he was in custody.
Not being of a legal mind,I'd imagine if the EAW specified only six then lumping more on him is out side of the terms of the EAW.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on March 02, 2020, 09:23:28 AM
I see that the UK intends to withdraw from the European Arrest Warrant mechanism. I wonder what, if any, effect this may have on any future prosecution in the Madeleine McCann case ?
If the SY are investigating the crime as if it happened in The UK and the parents are suspects with proof they can be arrested here in the UK.
Same as Gary Glitter who commited some of his crimes against children abroad- he was arrested and charged here!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on March 02, 2020, 07:33:19 PM
Ah yes, I wasn't thinking about that. what If the OG have real proof Jassi and hand it over to PJ then they can make the arrests?
They may be waiting for the next wedge of money to arrive to fund the continuing action.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 13, 2020, 06:56:43 PM
A new hero for the sceptics emerges...
Police officer who allegedly posted joke about Madeleine McCann keeps job PC Paula Manos will be 'encouraged to reflect and learn from the issue'
A police officer who allegedly wrote a Facebook post mocking the parents of missing Madeleine McCann will keep her job - but will be put under a review.
The comment was posted on a Facebook page belonging to PC Paula Manos, a beat manager in Thornbury, back in March 23, the day the UK's coronavirus lockdown was announced.
The post read: "I need a holiday so much I'd be willing to go away with the McCanns at this point."
After investigating the matter, Avon and Somerset Police has said the post does not meed the 'threshold of misconduct'.
However, the force added that the 48-year-old's profile post fell short of the standards of behaviour expected and that she will expected to take part in a review.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on July 13, 2020, 07:06:10 PM
Police officer who allegedly posted joke about Madeleine McCann keeps job PC Paula Manos will be 'encouraged to reflect and learn from the issue'
A police officer who allegedly wrote a Facebook post mocking the parents of missing Madeleine McCann will keep her job - but will be put under a review.
The comment was posted on a Facebook page belonging to PC Paula Manos, a beat manager in Thornbury, back in March 23, the day the UK's coronavirus lockdown was announced.
The post read: "I need a holiday so much I'd be willing to go away with the McCanns at this point."
After investigating the matter, Avon and Somerset Police has said the post does not meed the 'threshold of misconduct'.
However, the force added that the 48-year-old's profile post fell short of the standards of behaviour expected and that she will expected to take part in a review.
That's pretty funny to be fair.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Myster on July 13, 2020, 07:08:28 PM
Only to you. Most sensible people here probably thought it was pathetic.
Well, forgive me for having a sense of humour.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 13, 2020, 09:27:04 PM
Ah well. She’s been publicly shamed and in trouble with her bosses but I expect it was all worth it for the trolls and [ censored word ]s’ likes and retweets.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on July 14, 2020, 07:48:15 AM
I see that the UK intends to withdraw from the European Arrest Warrant mechanism. I wonder what, if any, effect this may have on any future prosecution in the Madeleine McCann case ?
The EAW, Europol and quick access to databases are just more of those Brexit "sunny uplands" to look forward to... ?8)@)-) https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/27/uk-to-withdraw-from-european-arrest-warrant
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on July 14, 2020, 08:20:37 AM
The EAW, Europol and quick access to databases are just more of those Brexit "sunny uplands" to look forward to... ?8)@)-) https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/27/uk-to-withdraw-from-european-arrest-warrant
I think this will come back on us and bite us on the bum and not only making us a 'safe haven' for European criminals I think it makes us a less safe country all round when we lose access to co-operation and intelligence. Just something else not thought through, perhaps?
Snip From 2009/2010 to 2017/2018, the UK returned 9,853 EU nationals to their home states to face justice, and brought back 1,271 Britons over the same period.
Before the arrest warrant existed it took 10 years to extradite Rachid Ramda from Britain to France over his role in the 1995 Paris metro bombing. In 2005 it took just 56 days to bring the failed 21/7 London tube bomber Hussain Osman back from Italy to London using an arrest warrant.
Yvette Cooper MP, the chair of the home affairs select committee, said: “The government’s new proposals for security cooperation with the EU are extremely worrying. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/27/uk-to-withdraw-from-european-arrest-warrant
“The announcement today made it plain that the UK is no longer seeking the kind of access to vital EU databases and security tools that would replicate our existing relationship, despite its own analysis stating repeatedly that failing to participate in existing tools would mean a serious loss of capability with damaging consequences for public safety.
“The government’s new red lines make it exceedingly difficult for anything more than the standard third-country relationship with the EU on security cooperation to be negotiated. That is not good enough and marks a huge scaling back in ambition.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on July 16, 2020, 08:41:54 AM
New family spokesman it seems,Mitchell is described as a former spokesman.
The family’s former spokesman Clarence Mitchell said:
That article was written by Tracy Kandola who reported Mitchell's sacking in 2016.
Mr Mitchell was told his “services were no longer needed” in an email from heart doctor Gerry, who explained the family had to “cut costs”. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-dump-key-8731091
Whether his words since then were uttered with the McCanns approval I don't know.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on July 16, 2020, 11:31:36 AM
That article was written by Tracy Kandola who reported Mitchell's sacking in 2016.
Mr Mitchell was told his “services were no longer needed” in an email from heart doctor Gerry, who explained the family had to “cut costs”. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-dump-key-8731091
Whether his words since then were uttered with the McCanns approval I don't know.
Hardly "Sacked", was he. More word twisting.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on July 16, 2020, 11:35:33 AM
That article was written by Tracy Kandola who reported Mitchell's sacking in 2016.
Mr Mitchell was told his “services were no longer needed” in an email from heart doctor Gerry, who explained the family had to “cut costs”. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccanns-parents-dump-key-8731091
Whether his words since then were uttered with the McCanns approval I don't know.
Yoour whole post is filled with contempt whilst you maintain you are open minded...just doesn't ring true imo
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on July 16, 2020, 11:48:36 AM
But another 'friend of the McCanns told the Daily Mail'....
''"It looks like the latest suspect could be ruled out because there is not sufficient evidence to charge him, which would be a huge embarrassment to the German authorities and very disappointing but not a total surprise to Kate and Gerry," the friend said.
"It had initially appeared such a vital and solid lead, and the breakthrough they had been dreaming of, but there seems to be a lack of any real evidence.
"Kate and Gerry have had their hopes raised and dashed so many times before. All they want is answers and to find out what happened to their daughter after more than 13 years.''
The man's a prick; I left him a voicemail saying as much.
What was it that riled you so much?
I used to get angry about his pretendy Police Press Conferences where he'd hold up a picture of the latest suspect yet never mention the Irish family who saw a man carrying a child just after 10pm in PdL!!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on July 18, 2020, 05:27:04 PM
I used to get angry about his pretendy Police Press Conferences where he'd hold up a picture of the latest suspect yet never mention the Irish family who saw a man carrying a child just after 10pm in PdL!!
You people need anger management lessons IMO.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on August 08, 2020, 01:14:31 PM
Isn't this what Perlin thinks he could do.
'YOU WON'T GET AWAY WITH IT' Top forensic expert says Madeleine McCann riddle WILL be solved one day as ‘every contact leaves a trace’
This thing about always leaving a trace is all well and good if it is someone who's shouldn't be present, but doesn't work with someone who had a legitimate reason to be there.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Anthro on August 08, 2020, 02:19:41 PM
This thing about always leaving a trace is all well and good if it is someone who's shouldn't be present, but doesn't work with someone who had a legitimate reason to be there.
Except in this case, Brückner was on record as a sex offender.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on August 08, 2020, 02:27:21 PM
Yes but they don't seem to have found any forensic trace of him connected to Madeleine as yet
And we, as the public, would be the last to know what information and evidence German Police have on Brückner. I believe it is significant since Wolters does not come across as posturing.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on August 08, 2020, 02:41:04 PM
And we, as the public, would be the last to know what information and evidence German Police have on Brückner. I believe it is significant since Wolters does not come across as posturing.
Of course but do you not think that if police had something significant on him they wouldn't at least be interviewing him ?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Eleanor on August 08, 2020, 02:51:33 PM
It doesn't appear to be the same at all: Perlin's system is apparently an algorithm that churns out probabilities of a profile belonging to one person as opposed to another unrelated person, when compared to a database. But whose database? A US one? A Portuguese one? A British one?
It can't say that this is Madeleine's x allele, as all of her components would also be in the combined profiles of her parents, and numerous ones would be in common with her siblings and other relatives. It might be useful in some kinds of cases, and may be useful in mass casualty situations for its potential speed in calculating, but I just don't see how it could add anything in this case.
This lady is advocating touch analysis, which is fine, provided that items were handled and stored correctly. Imagine that Christian B had touched something (e.g., a glass) with his bare fingers - that could be useful, but the forensic sweep in 5A didn't go that far.
OTOH, if e.g. her pyjamas had been found and DNA still on them (a bit of a long shot, I would have thought...) that might be a different matter. Or her uncontaminated profile somewhere in one of his vehicles, but again a long shot.
And the Sun, as usual gets totally muddled up: "And while it has been more than 20 years since Madeleine disappeared on that fateful night in Portugal, Prof Gallop is still optimistic that the answers will be found."
No, it hasn't been 20 years. "As part of the investigation, it is hoped a tiny scrap of blue material held in the vaults of a Portuguese forensic lab could provide the vital link between Christian B and Madeleine.
Tests uncovered a microscopic a DNA profile initially identified as semen, but later confirmed to be saliva.
Scientists were unable to obtain a full DNA profile at the time but have continued to work on it with new testing techniques.
Authorities now hope that continuing advances in DNA testing may yet provide a full profile for comparison with the convicted paedophile and rapist."
No, the saliva was identified back in 2007 and a complete profile was obtained. It came from a baby boy.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Carana on August 08, 2020, 03:05:49 PM
Doesn't stop them asking, which they don't seem to have done.
Someone on here helpfully posted on German law. From memory as I can't find the post for the moment, you can be invited to provide a witness statement, but you aren't obliged to. Or you get summoned, but then you have to be presented with the evidence against you. A bit like in Portugal.
A case will only go to trial if there is a stronger chance of a conviction than an acquittal. More like the UK.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 08, 2020, 03:55:57 PM
Someone on here helpfully posted on German law. From memory as I can't find the post for the moment, you can be invited to provide a witness statement, but you aren't obliged to. Or you get summoned, but then you have to be presented with the evidence against you. A bit like in Portugal.
A case will only go to trial if there is a stronger chance of a conviction than an acquittal. More like the UK.
HCW has already said he doesn't want to question Breukner yet as if he does he has to show him all the evidence and that there is evidence he doesn't want Breukner to know they have
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on August 08, 2020, 04:32:34 PM
HCW has already said he doesn't want to question Breukner yet as if he does he has to show him all the evidence and that there is evidence he doesn't want Breukner to know they have
Cite for the last bit please?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 08, 2020, 05:01:36 PM
HCW has already said he doesn't want to question Breukner yet as if he does he has to show him all the evidence and that there is evidence he doesn't want Breukner to know they have
They have no evidence or he would be questioned. Not surprising as there's no evidence to be found linking him to MM.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on August 08, 2020, 07:04:31 PM
Someone on here helpfully posted on German law. From memory as I can't find the post for the moment, you can be invited to provide a witness statement, but you aren't obliged to. Or you get summoned, but then you have to be presented with the evidence against you. A bit like in Portugal.
A case will only go to trial if there is a stronger chance of a conviction than an acquittal. More like the UK.
Could you provide a cite for.....have to be presented with all the evidence against you......need it for my files
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on August 08, 2020, 08:27:33 PM
They have no evidence or he would be questioned. Not surprising as there's no evidence to be found linking him to MM.
I think German police have sufficient time before Brückner would be formally questioned. He is not going anywhere soon and police are being tactical in their approach. My thoughts only.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on August 08, 2020, 09:05:56 PM
I think German police have sufficient time before Brückner would be formally questioned. He is not going anywhere soon and police are being tactical in their approach. My thoughts only.
Yep another 7 yrs, don't expect a resolution any time soon.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on August 08, 2020, 09:06:48 PM
Yep another 7 yrs, don't expect a resolution any time soon.
I believe this will not be the case. I get the impression that a lot more will be revealed soon. In his chat on the dark web as ‘Wahnsinnholger’ with another person, he stated he wants to capture something small ... Soon afterwards Inga Gehricke disappeared.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: barrier on August 09, 2020, 07:15:30 AM
I believe this will not be the case. I get the impression that a lot more will be revealed soon. In his chat on the dark web as ‘Wahnsinnholger’ with another person, he stated he wants to capture something small ... Soon afterwards Inga Gehricke disappeared.
No suggestion of it being Madeline.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on August 09, 2020, 08:06:31 AM
With far too many for them to be just coincidences
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Mr Gray on August 09, 2020, 08:41:11 AM
Thera are posters here who have been saying for years that no burglar would abduct a child yet now we ahve a burglar with ahistory of paedophilia...another coincidence.
statements from friends saying he claims to know what happenend to maddie..
phone pinings which may plce him in Luz that evening.....more coincindences.
All those who have rubbished the abduction theory for yeras now rubbishing the german police.
And then the HCW sayoing they nhave strong evidence Breukner killed maddie
I think it will be very interesting to see where this leads.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on August 09, 2020, 10:04:52 AM
Thera are posters here who have been saying for years that no burglar would abduct a child yet now we ahve a burglar with ahistory of paedophilia...another coincidence.
statements from friends saying he claims to know what happenend to maddie..
phone pinings which may plce him in Luz that evening.....more coincindences.
All those who have rubbished the abduction theory for yeras now rubbishing the german police.
And then the HCW sayoing they nhave strong evidence Breukner killed maddie
I think it will be very interesting to see where this leads.
I think it is interesting that Brueckner appealed the rape conviction on a technicality not on innocence and only learned opinion is keeping it standing for the time being.
Going on the information in the public domain I am certainly of the opinion that it would be a dereliction of duty if the police didn't continue their investigation into whether or not he is connected to Madeleine's disappearance.
I think the chances of that are very slim as they show no sign of giving up. Bearing in mind that the police will certainly have more information and intelligence than they have released. I think those who hope that what they think is inaction will soon find that they are examining the information received from the public appeals ~ the information gleaned from searching which in combination with what they already have on him to build a watertight case against him.
I don't think it was ever going to be easy which is proved by the length of time he has been the subject of an active police investigation. He or whoever did this has had a head start of thirteen years to cover their tracks. Aided and abetted by an initial police investigation which took the wrong path and ended in a dead end but which ultimately contributed to the fact no-one was looking for him.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on August 09, 2020, 10:38:03 AM
It's possible that challenging the legality of the trial is the first step and he can only appeal the verdict & sentence once the legality has been established.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on August 09, 2020, 11:45:48 AM
I think it is interesting that Brueckner appealed the rape conviction on a technicality not on innocence and only learned opinion is keeping it standing for the time being.
Going on the information in the public domain I am certainly of the opinion that it would be a dereliction of duty if the police didn't continue their investigation into whether or not he is connected to Madeleine's disappearance.
I think the chances of that are very slim as they show no sign of giving up. Bearing in mind that the police will certainly have more information and intelligence than they have released. I think those who hope that what they think is inaction will soon find that they are examining the information received from the public appeals ~ the information gleaned from searching which in combination with what they already have on him to build a watertight case against him.
I don't think it was ever going to be easy which is proved by the length of time he has been the subject of an active police investigation. He or whoever did this has had a head start of thirteen years to cover their tracks. Aided and abetted by an initial police investigation which took the wrong path and ended in a dead end but which ultimately contributed to the fact no-one was looking for him.
I'll bet you £45 sterling that he doesn't even get charged. I'll further wager that he 'cooperates' fully when it comes to interview.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Brietta on August 09, 2020, 02:59:38 PM
It's possible that challenging the legality of the trial is the first step and he can only appeal the verdict & sentence once the legality has been established.
I am sure Brueckner's lawyers will pull out every stop they possibly can on his behalf. That is their job and as far as I can see they appear to be very good at it.
Hopefully, the prosecution will be better if there is evidence which warrants it and I shall be very surprised as well as disappointed if there is not.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: sadie on August 10, 2020, 02:39:38 AM
I am not so sure that if Inga Gehrickes body is found, that it will not be passed off as Madeleines, if at all feasible size wise.
Inga went missing on May 2, 2015, from a forest in Schönebeck, Saxony-Anhalt, during a barbecue. At the time of her disappearance, the girl was visiting the Wilhelmshof district of Stendal. She went to collect wood for a campfire with other children in the forest.
in another article "Police initially believed Inga had run into woodland to collect wood for a campfire. Detectives were on the scene that evening and the search expanded to include more than 1,000 officers.
Police officers and volunteers searched the 3,500-hectare forest for four days using dogs, helicopters with thermal imaging cameras, searchlights and loud speakers, but no evidence was found." https://inews.co.uk/news/inga-gehricke-missing-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner-what-happened-disappearance-434507
That is a large area to cover.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: faithlilly on September 15, 2020, 11:56:12 AM
From elsewhere.
August 5 2020:
Mother of missing Peterborough girl tells media:
"I can't eat or sleep properly. I miss and love my eldest princess so much, she's missing out on her baby sister, who has learned to smile and coo already. I have to think that she is hiding at one of her friend's homes, worried about coming home now that the police will want to speak to her, I can't think of any alternative scenarios, I just can't.
"I know my baby girl wouldn't be out in the open. She's scared of being out in the dark alone, that's what makes me think she's at a friend's house. I just wish someone would just say she's here and she's safe. I want to cuddle her, but right now I'd accept that she's safe and well."
"I believe the police are doing their job, but as a parent I need more. I'm desperate for my daughter to be found. When will they up the risk to high instead of medium?"
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 11:57:21 AM
I wondered how long it would be before this case was brought up, and my money was always on Faithlilly to be the first to sink so low. Thanks for not disappointing!
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: The General on September 15, 2020, 12:11:58 PM
"I can't eat or sleep properly. I miss and love my eldest princess so much, she's missing out on her baby sister, who has learned to smile and coo already. I have to think that she is hiding at one of her friend's homes, worried about coming home now that the police will want to speak to her, I can't think of any alternative scenarios, I just can't.
"I know my baby girl wouldn't be out in the open. She's scared of being out in the dark alone, that's what makes me think she's at a friend's house. I just wish someone would just say she's here and she's safe. I want to cuddle her, but right now I'd accept that she's safe and well."
"I believe the police are doing their job, but as a parent I need more. I'm desperate for my daughter to be found. When will they up the risk to high instead of medium?"
Inga went missing on May 2, 2015, from a forest in Schönebeck, Saxony-Anhalt, during a barbecue. At the time of her disappearance, the girl was visiting the Wilhelmshof district of Stendal. She went to collect wood for a campfire with other children in the forest.
in another article "Police initially believed Inga had run into woodland to collect wood for a campfire. Detectives were on the scene that evening and the search expanded to include more than 1,000 officers.
Police officers and volunteers searched the 3,500-hectare forest for four days using dogs, helicopters with thermal imaging cameras, searchlights and loud speakers, but no evidence was found." https://inews.co.uk/news/inga-gehricke-missing-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-brueckner-what-happened-disappearance-434507
That is a large area to cover.
They only searched for four days? Even the so-called bumbling PJ searched for Madeleine McCann for seven days.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 15, 2020, 04:41:23 PM
They only searched for four days? Even the so-called bumbling PJ searched for Madeleine McCann for seven days.
British police obviously take the disappearance of children far more seriously than their counterparts on the continent and for that we should be proud, but instead we moan about the cost to the taxpayer.
“On Friday, after almost eight weeks of searching, officers from Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire major crime unit declared a “no-body” murder investigation”.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: G-Unit on September 15, 2020, 05:48:26 PM
British police obviously take the disappearance of children far more seriously than their counterparts on the continent and for that we should be proud, but instead we moan about the cost to the taxpayer.
“On Friday, after almost eight weeks of searching, officers from Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire major crime unit declared a “no-body” murder investigation”.
Then arrested her parents?
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: jassi on September 15, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
Not the normal sort of parental activity, though, so worthy of note. IMO
That’s why it’s in the newspapers for people to salivate over.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 25, 2021, 10:42:46 PM
For all those claiming that Kate was unemployed because she hadn’t completed her GP training or was now unemployable this should come as disappointing news. Let’s hope none of you is hospitalized in the Leicester area as you might need her ministrations and that would probably finish you off @)(++(* https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16191846/madeleine-mccanns-ex-gp-mum-kate-returns-to-work/
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Wonderfulspam on September 25, 2021, 11:45:51 PM
For all those claiming that Kate was unemployed because she hadn’t completed her GP training or was now unemployable this should come as disappointing news. Let’s hope none of you is hospitalized in the Leicester area as you might need her ministrations and that would probably finish you off @)(++(* https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16191846/madeleine-mccanns-ex-gp-mum-kate-returns-to-work/
I wonder if the children's ward has since recorded an increase in prescriptions for sedative drugs?
Anyway, I suppose she had to return to work eventually, what with the twins being old enough to fend for themselves now, like they were when they were 18 months.
Title: Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
Post by: Venturi Swirl on September 26, 2021, 07:28:55 AM
I wonder if the children's ward has since recorded an increase in prescriptions for sedative drugs?
Anyway, I suppose she had to return to work eventually, what with the twins being old enough to fend for themselves now, like they were when they were 18 months.
Then she should have returned to work back when they were 18 months, shouldn’t she? . Also she is working with Covid patients so the ickle children should be safe from the wicked witch. Leave the cutting “comedy” to Frankie Boyle, he’s a bit better at it than you…