Author Topic: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)  (Read 400490 times)

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Offline Eleanor

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3330 on: February 15, 2018, 08:42:46 PM »

This is a bit of a turn up after the slagging off I got repeatedly for admitting to doing the same things.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3331 on: February 15, 2018, 08:48:59 PM »
This is a bit of a turn up after the slagging off I got repeatedly for admitting to doing the same things.

An incredible admission  in the circumstances

Offline Robittybob1

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3332 on: February 15, 2018, 08:57:34 PM »
Fine... About the same chance the mccanns took
Problem with the McCanns the incidences of break-ins were being kept quite.  So the concept of a "safe place" was in some ways distorted but they did not know that. 
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline Eleanor

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3333 on: February 15, 2018, 09:01:34 PM »
An incredible admission  in the circumstances

It's all old hat now.  Everybody knows.  Certain members of this Forum made sure of that, and still do from time to time, although it's ten years now since I first admitted it.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3334 on: February 15, 2018, 09:02:43 PM »
Problem with the McCanns the incidences of break-ins were being kept quite.  So the concept of a "safe place" was in some ways distorted but they did not know that.

Just as sil thinks her garden is, safe.... The mccanns thought the OC was safe...

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3335 on: February 15, 2018, 09:04:25 PM »
It's all old hat now.  Everybody knows.  Certain members of this Forum made sure of that, and still do from time to time, although it's ten years now since I first admitted it.

I did it on more than one occasion.. It felt safe at the time.. I certainly  wouldn't do it now

Offline Eleanor

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3336 on: February 15, 2018, 09:12:59 PM »
I did it on more than one occasion.. It felt safe at the time.. I certainly  wouldn't do it now

The rights and wrongs of it aren't really relevant.  But there was no way in which I could berate The McCanns for what I had done myself, and wasn't ashamed to admit it.

Offline Brietta

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3337 on: February 15, 2018, 09:33:21 PM »
In retrospect, I don't know if there is anyone who could say hand on heart that either through inexperience or thoughtlessness they have not put the most precious beings in their lives in jeopardy ... and that is inclusive of the wrong choice of babysitter.

The McCanns were caught out.  The majority of the rest of us got off with it for which we should be ever thankful.  I know I am.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline G-Unit

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3338 on: February 15, 2018, 10:15:30 PM »
All any parent can do is their best. No-one can be on red alert 24/7. With the McCann case we aren't discussing a moment's lack of attention though. It was 5 nights of deliberate abandonment of small children. No-one expects an abduction but any parent with any sense is aware that children can wake, feel ill, cry, fall and more in the space of a few minutes, let alone 30 of them. I knew this at the age of 26, why didn't the McCanns take it into account at their more mature ages?
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Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3339 on: February 15, 2018, 10:28:23 PM »
In retrospect, I don't know if there is anyone who could say hand on heart that either through inexperience or thoughtlessness they have not put the most precious beings in their lives in jeopardy ... and that is inclusive of the wrong choice of babysitter.

The McCanns were caught out.  The majority of the rest of us got off with it for which we should be ever thankful.  I know I am.

As a then GP with appropriate training KM could potentially have been a member of a team passing judgement on parents whose children may then have been placed on the Children at Risk Register.
It is difficult to see how the two can be reconciled; although I am sure there will be plenty of not so apposite reasoning.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline slartibartfast

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3340 on: February 15, 2018, 10:47:31 PM »
All any parent can do is their best. No-one can be on red alert 24/7. With the McCann case we aren't discussing a moment's lack of attention though. It was 5 nights of deliberate abandonment of small children. No-one expects an abduction but any parent with any sense is aware that children can wake, feel ill, cry, fall and more in the space of a few minutes, let alone 30 of them. I knew this at the age of 26, why didn't the McCanns take it into account at their more mature ages?

IMO allowing children more freedom during the day is part of developing self reliance in the child. Leaving them home alone does nothing for child development.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Robittybob1

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3341 on: February 15, 2018, 10:58:59 PM »
IMO allowing children more freedom during the day is part of developing self reliance in the child. Leaving them home alone does nothing for child development.
If we were to analyse when is it that most kids have serious accidents, I would not be surprised most of them are occurring during that " developing self reliance" phase. 
As a kid we would make rafts and paddle down the river -  "developing self reliance" but looking back absolutely dangerous but a heck of a lot of fun.
What would have we said if Mum told us we were not allowed to do it?  Families are tending to be smaller today and I suppose it is more important to make sure all the kids survive. 
Moderation
John has instructed all moderators to take a very strong line with posters who constantly breach the rules of this forum.  This sniping, goading, name calling and other various forms of disruption will cease.

Offline barrier

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3342 on: February 16, 2018, 10:21:50 AM »
A recent FOI to the MET has brought this response regarding funding.

Quote
The MPS have decided to disclosure the cost of Operation Grange to date to
you in full. 

The cost of Operation Grange is as follows:

* 2011/12 - £1.9m
* 2012/13 - £2.8m
* 2013/14 - £2.6m
* 2014/15 - £2.4m
* 2015/16 - £1.1m
* 2016/17 - £332,994

In addition the cost for the first three quarters of financial year
2017/18 (April - December 2017) is £217,411.  As this is not a full year
this data cannot be compared to other years


https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/operation_grange#incoming-1110345
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.

Offline Brietta

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3343 on: February 16, 2018, 11:49:15 AM »
A recent FOI to the MET has brought this response regarding funding.

he MPS have decided to disclosure the cost of Operation Grange to date to
you in full. 

The cost of Operation Grange is as follows:

* 2011/12 - £1.9m
* 2012/13 - £2.8m
* 2013/14 - £2.6m
* 2014/15 - £2.4m
* 2015/16 - £1.1m
* 2016/17 - £332,994

In addition the cost for the first three quarters of financial year
2017/18 (April - December 2017) is £217,411.  As this is not a full year
this data cannot be compared to other years

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/operation_grange#incoming-1110345

Actually in my opinion you have really omitted the meat and bones from your link;  it is well worth reading and mulling over in context.
Who in their right mind seeks to interfere in any way with an obviously active ongoing criminal investigation, particularly when we know there are matters of grave sensitivity to be addressed. Not to mention this is a case concerning a missing child who allegedly comes first in the thoughts of all.  Heh!

I don't quite see how that sentiment can be claimed by those who get themselves tied in knots at mention of Madeleine's fund and have apoplexy at the thought of a farthing being spent in the continuing search for her.




Dear Ms Kendall

Freedom of Information Request Reference No: 2018010000845

I write in connection with your request for information which was received
by the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) on 19/01/2018.  I note you seek
access to the following information:

* Will you please inform me if Operation Grange will be requesting more
money for the ongoing search for Madeleine McCann when present funding
runs out in March
* Also the total sum that has been spent so far of taxpayers money in
this search

DECISION IN RESPECT OF PART ONE OF YOUR REQUEST

The Metropolitan Police Service can neither confirm nor deny whether it
holds the information that you requested as the duty in Section 1(1)(a) of
the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (the Act) does not apply by virtue of
the following exemptions:

* Section 30 - Investigations

Please see the legal annex for further information on the exemptions
applied in respect of your request.

REASONS FOR DECISION

The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is ongoing
and as with any ongoing investigation we need to ensure that any
information provided under the Freedom of Information Act does not impact
on the police operation.
  In this instance the MPS have decided to apply a
neither confirm nor deny (NCND) response to the first part of your
request.  This is because the MPS are not prepared to say whether we have
or have not approached the Home Office in respect of the continuation of
Operation Grange. 

As you would expect the MPS will not provide a running commentary on live
investigations.  Any response which confirms whether or not additional
funding is being sought would also be likely to confirm whether or not
there are any outstanding lines of enquiry that the Operation Grange team
feel should be explored. 

The MPS provide updates to the public by way of press releases and blogs
which are carefully timed and prepared in order to ensure we keep the
public informed without compromising the ongoing investigation.  An
example of such an update can be found at the following link:
http://news.met.police.uk/blog_posts/ac-....

The MPS appreciate that the funding for Operation Grange is of high public
interest however as explained confirmation of whether or not the requested
information is held would give an insight in to the investigation itself.
 Clearly information concerning an ongoing investigation must be protected
in order to ensure that any response issued does not disrupt the
investigation or assist offenders. 

To clarify, any response which outlines whether or not there are further
enquiries to be made concerning a criminal investigation could not be
placed in the public domain as this would be highly valuable information
to the individuals who are responsible for offences.  Such individuals may
subsequently decide to take additional measures to avoid detection or
apprehension.  Conversely offenders would also benefit should the MPS
response indicate that our enquiries have concluded or are near
completion. 


At this point, I would like to explain that all FOI disclosures are
published on our website as the information, once disclosed, is considered
to be available to all members of the public. 

We must protect the integrity of our investigation, however we are also
keenly aware of the public's interest in the cost of this investigation
and how it is funded.  A careful balance is needed to show that we are
both accountable for our decisions and transparent regarding the cost to
the public purse.

The exemption provide under section 30 of the Act is qualified and
therefore I am required to provide you with a public interest test which
you can find in the legal annex below.

Please note this response should not be taken to as an indication of
whether the information requested under part one of your request is or is
not held.

DECISION IN RESPECT OF PART TWO OF YOUR REQUEST

The MPS have decided to disclosure the cost of Operation Grange to date to
you in full. 

The cost of Operation Grange is as follows: ...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The MPS understands that there is significant public interest in matters
concerning Madeleine McCann.  The investigation has been lengthy and
ultimately is resourced using public funds.  It is important that we are
as open and transparent as possible when dealing with matters of such high
public interest.  A full response here would provide clarity on whether
additional funding for the operation is being sought.  This would help
encourage debate concerning the use of public funds.

Public interest considerations favouring the application of the neither
confirm nor deny (NCND) response

It is important to acknowledge that this is an ongoing investigation into
the disappearance of a child.
  As with all investigations it is of
paramount importance that the response to a Freedom of Information request
does not disrupt or have any negative impact on that investigation.

 Clearly such disruption to an investigation would not be in the best
interests of the public.  The length of time and money that is put into an
investigation does not diminish the argument above. 

Balancing Test

After weighing up the competing interests I have determined that the
public interest favours the maintenance of the neither confirm nor deny
exemption.  The argument in favour of the NCND is significant as
ultimately it is not in the best interests of the public to issue any
response that could prejudice an ongoing investigation, assist offenders
or increase the risk of further offences being committed.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/operation_grange#incoming-1110345


In my opinion, the communication from Grange certainly makes the position as far as an active investigation is concerned crystal clear.
The right 'to know' comes nowhere near to the right of the police to be allowed to get on with their jobs without let or hindrance.

The reply is logical and and obvious and that in my opinion should have deterred yet another FOI request concerning Madeleine McCann and the active investigation into her case (one wonders how many in total this one makes from those allegedly concerned about the efficiency of the public purse).

The snip you posted while giving important information ... really doesn't come close to reviewing the far wider picture ... information on which either you chose to ignore or just failed to see the significance of.
 
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline barrier

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #3344 on: February 16, 2018, 12:21:23 PM »
As far as I know there has been no comment made by anyone from Scotland Yard ... nor would I expect any.

Snip
Detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have applied for more funding for the search, the Home Office has confirmed.
http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=31483


Who in their right mind seeks to interfere in any way with an obviously active ongoing criminal investigation, particularly when we know there are matters of grave sensitivity to be addressed. Not to mention this is a case concerning a missing child who allegedly comes first in the thoughts of all.  Heh!



You need to make your mind up, do you believe the tittle tattle spouted by the likes of Brunt or yourself when stating you don't expect any thing from the Scotland Yard.
This is my own private domicile and I shall not be harassed, biatch:Jesse Pinkman Character.