Author Topic: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)  (Read 400482 times)

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Offline faithlilly

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4020 on: February 28, 2019, 12:01:28 PM »
From what he says here I think it is irrefutable that Martin Grime was under the impression that the crime scene had been locked down after Madeleine's disappearance.
I doubt he would have used that description of scent pooling had he known that business as usual had been allowed and that various families had occupied it since Madeleine went missing.  Ruling out Grime's appraisal of the hot climate in combination with the closed down apartment would allow the scent to remain undisturbed ... hence the dog alert.

It is an entirely different scenario from families living daily in the apartment.  Coming and going ~ opening doors ~ opening windows ~ cooking ~ eating takeaways ~ cleaning schedules while occupied and deep clean schedules between occupations.
Making it impossible to determine what exactly it was that excited the excitable dog into barking.

Snip
The blunder was revealed in the extensive 30,000 page police dossier into the investigation.

Details of all those who stayed in 5A after the McCanns were disclosed in an internal document written by Chief Inspector Vitor Matos to Goncalo Amaral, who was then leading the investigation.
- After the disappearance apartment 5 A was occupied by the following individuals: 12-06-2007 - 19-06-2007 by R and F. F****** (friends of the owners), from 28-06-2007 - 12-07-2007 by SR, W & CF, 12-07-2007 to 19-07-2007 by BSP and JFP, 19-07-2007 - 26-07-07 by MMS family.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DCCB_LETTER.htm

__________________________________________________________________________________

On June 12, a couple from Liverpool who were friends of the owner, retired teacher Ruth McCann - who is no relation to Kate and Gerry McCann - stayed in 5A for a week.

A family of four from Falkirk in Scotland stayed from June 28 to July 12, followed by a couple from New Barnet in Hertfordshire.

On July 19, a family of three from Leicester stayed for a week.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2523523/Madeleine-McCann-Apartment-was-not-made-crime-scene-for-two-months.html


It is highly probable that Martin Grime had no idea of these occupancies since it seems the McCanns were made arguidos prior to the judicial police locating evidence which justified it as the dates from the files would indicate.

So Grime says that scent pooling occurs when a building is secured. From the information above it’s obvious that the apartment was not secured therefore no scent pooling would have occurred which means that Eddie alerted to exactly what he was trained to alert to in the areas he alerted. Eddie alerts to blood and cadaver scent. Keels didn’t alert to blood in the area and therefore the alert must have been to cadaver scent.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4021 on: February 28, 2019, 12:27:57 PM »
From what he says here I think it is irrefutable that Martin Grime was under the impression that the crime scene had been locked down after Madeleine's disappearance.
I doubt he would have used that description of scent pooling had he known that business as usual had been allowed and that various families had occupied it since Madeleine went missing.  Ruling out Grime's appraisal of the hot climate in combination with the closed down apartment would allow the scent to remain undisturbed ... hence the dog alert.

It is an entirely different scenario from families living daily in the apartment.  Coming and going ~ opening doors ~ opening windows ~ cooking ~ eating takeaways ~ cleaning schedules while occupied and deep clean schedules between occupations.
Making it impossible to determine what exactly it was that excited the excitable dog into barking.

Snip
The blunder was revealed in the extensive 30,000 page police dossier into the investigation.

Details of all those who stayed in 5A after the McCanns were disclosed in an internal document written by Chief Inspector Vitor Matos to Goncalo Amaral, who was then leading the investigation.
- After the disappearance apartment 5 A was occupied by the following individuals: 12-06-2007 - 19-06-2007 by R and F. F****** (friends of the owners), from 28-06-2007 - 12-07-2007 by SR, W & CF, 12-07-2007 to 19-07-2007 by BSP and JFP, 19-07-2007 - 26-07-07 by MMS family.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DCCB_LETTER.htm

__________________________________________________________________________________

On June 12, a couple from Liverpool who were friends of the owner, retired teacher Ruth McCann - who is no relation to Kate and Gerry McCann - stayed in 5A for a week.

A family of four from Falkirk in Scotland stayed from June 28 to July 12, followed by a couple from New Barnet in Hertfordshire.

On July 19, a family of three from Leicester stayed for a week.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/2523523/Madeleine-McCann-Apartment-was-not-made-crime-scene-for-two-months.html


It is highly probable that Martin Grime had no idea of these occupancies since it seems the McCanns were made arguidos prior to the judicial police locating evidence which justified it as the dates from the files would indicate.
I disagree with your first premise.  You would need to check with Mr Grime if he thought that to be the case.  And whether or not he would have claimed scent pooling under both options.

Personally, I cannot fathom why scent pooling should not have occurred at any time, from before Madeleine's disappearance until Grime's search.

Without that, your post is pure speculation.

There is nothing in the video to suggest to Grime that 5A was sealed off.  I am not aware of a case in the UK where a scene of disappearance gets sealed off for that length of time. If you have an example, please enlighten me.

The scene was forensically searched by 3 PJ teams over the 3rd and 4th of May.  When it was returned to the owner there was no reason to think a search by English dogs would be conducted some months later.

I can see no reason why Mr Grime should think the apartment had been sealed off.

I have a number of questions for Mr Grime.  If you have a contact method for him, please enlighten me.

After all, if I don't ask, I am unlikely to get answers.
What's up, old man?

Offline Brietta

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4022 on: February 28, 2019, 01:15:21 PM »
I disagree with your first premise.  You would need to check with Mr Grime if he thought that to be the case.  And whether or not he would have claimed scent pooling under both options.

Personally, I cannot fathom why scent pooling should not have occurred at any time, from before Madeleine's disappearance until Grime's search.

Without that, your post is pure speculation.

There is nothing in the video to suggest to Grime that 5A was sealed off.  I am not aware of a case in the UK where a scene of disappearance gets sealed off for that length of time. If you have an example, please enlighten me.

The scene was forensically searched by 3 PJ teams over the 3rd and 4th of May.  When it was returned to the owner there was no reason to think a search by English dogs would be conducted some months later.

I can see no reason why Mr Grime should think the apartment had been sealed off.

I have a number of questions for Mr Grime.  If you have a contact method for him, please enlighten me.

After all, if I don't ask, I am unlikely to get answers.

According to the files it took the Judicial Police until the end of September to record the details of all the families who had occupied 5A between crime scene restrictions being lifted and the occasion of the canine inspection conducted by Martin Grime.

There is no record that Martin Grime was privy to the information imparted to Amaral a month after the canines had left Luz for Jersey.  One may speculate that what Amaral did not know he could hardly be expected to convey to a contractor ... that is if he even thought it appropriate to convey anything at all.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Venturi Swirl

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4023 on: February 28, 2019, 05:54:46 PM »
So Grime says that scent pooling occurs when a building is secured. From the information above it’s obvious that the apartment was not secured therefore no scent pooling would have occurred which means that Eddie alerted to exactly what he was trained to alert to in the areas he alerted. Eddie alerts to blood and cadaver scent. Keels didn’t alert to blood in the area and therefore the alert must have been to cadaver scent.
@)(++(*
"Surely the fact that their accounts were different reinforces their veracity rather than diminishes it? If they had colluded in protecting ........ surely all of their accounts would be the same?" - Faithlilly

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4024 on: February 28, 2019, 07:59:53 PM »
I disagree with your first premise.  You would need to check with Mr Grime if he thought that to be the case.  And whether or not he would have claimed scent pooling under both options.

Personally, I cannot fathom why scent pooling should not have occurred at any time, from before Madeleine's disappearance until Grime's search.

Without that, your post is pure speculation.

There is nothing in the video to suggest to Grime that 5A was sealed off.  I am not aware of a case in the UK where a scene of disappearance gets sealed off for that length of time. If you have an example, please enlighten me.

The scene was forensically searched by 3 PJ teams over the 3rd and 4th of May.  When it was returned to the owner there was no reason to think a search by English dogs would be conducted some months later.

I can see no reason why Mr Grime should think the apartment had been sealed off.

I have a number of questions for Mr Grime.  If you have a contact method for him, please enlighten me.

After all, if I don't ask, I am unlikely to get answers.

contacting Grime would be extremely easy...but you have not managed to work out how to do it...what does that say about your investigative skills

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4025 on: March 01, 2019, 09:53:33 AM »
contacting Grime would be extremely easy...but you have not managed to work out how to do it...what does that say about your investigative skills
Then you'll be able to provide those details.  And since you haven't, what does it say about you?  Typical Davel.   *%87
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4026 on: March 01, 2019, 10:31:02 AM »
Then you'll be able to provide those details.  And since you haven't, what does it say about you?  Typical Davel.   *%87

I could probably provide at least four... Let's, start with Google... Which will take you to his Linkedin page... There's, a box entitled... Message Martin... What do you think that does

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4027 on: March 01, 2019, 01:11:40 PM »
I could probably provide at least four... Let's, start with Google... Which will take you to his Linkedin page... There's, a box entitled... Message Martin... What do you think that does
As I am not a user of LinkedIn, I can see no such box.

Why do you think I asked in the first place?

By the way, you are doing a Clarence.  Private investigation, particularly when OG is active and Porto may or may not, is illegal in Portugal.

Mind you, that leaves the option open to those forum members located in the UK.  But from the forum area devoted to Martin Grime, it looks like no-one bothered.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4028 on: March 01, 2019, 01:24:59 PM »
As I am not a user of LinkedIn, I can see no such box.

Why do you think I asked in the first place?

By the way, you are doing a Clarence.  Private investigation, particularly when OG is active and Porto may or may not, is illegal in Portugal.

Mind you, that leaves the option open to those forum members located in the UK.  But from the forum area devoted to Martin Grime, it looks like no-one bothered.

You asked how to contact Grime... Ive told you

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4029 on: March 01, 2019, 01:34:47 PM »
You asked how to contact Grime... Ive told you
So to be legal, I have to join LinkedIn, leave the country, and message him from there?

I'll bear it in mind.   &^^&*
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4030 on: March 01, 2019, 02:14:47 PM »
So to be legal, I have to join LinkedIn, leave the country, and message him from there?

I'll bear it in mind.   &^^&*

I think you will find linked in is international... They even have it in portugal

I gave you a simple method to contact grime... If it's beyond you... Nothing more I can do
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 02:20:08 PM by Davel »

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4031 on: March 01, 2019, 02:45:06 PM »
I think you will find linked in is international... They even have it in portugal

I gave you a simple method to contact grime... If it's beyond you... Nothing more I can do
I did't say LinkedIn was illegal in Portugal, did I?  I said private investigation of a crime whilst it is under active police investigation is illegal in Portugal.  You are sounding very much like Clarence.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4032 on: March 01, 2019, 02:54:21 PM »
I did't say LinkedIn was illegal in Portugal, did I?  I said private investigation of a crime whilst it is under active police investigation is illegal in Portugal.  You are sounding very much like Clarence.

You have probably deduced I am Clarence... You asked for a contact for Grime... I gave you one... Then there's Staffs university... A 2 min search will give you his, email address there

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4033 on: March 01, 2019, 04:26:30 PM »
You have probably deduced I am Clarence... You asked for a contact for Grime... I gave you one... Then there's Staffs university... A 2 min search will give you his, email address there

 *&(+(+

It may well do, but that is not the point.

Private citizens in Portugal are not permitted to investigate in the face of a live police investigation.  And I have no desire to get hauled up by the GNR.  That is why certain questions I would like to put to Coronel Sequeira of the GNR need to be stacked up until OG calls it a day.

Gerry appears to have a gatekeeper on his university email address.  Perhaps one day I will find out for sure.  But probably I won't.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: General discussion about the latest news (not search related)
« Reply #4034 on: March 01, 2019, 04:41:22 PM »
*&(+(+

It may well do, but that is not the point.

Private citizens in Portugal are not permitted to investigate in the face of a live police investigation.  And I have no desire to get hauled up by the GNR.  That is why certain questions I would like to put to Coronel Sequeira of the GNR need to be stacked up until OG calls it a day.

Gerry appears to have a gatekeeper on his university email address.  Perhaps one day I will find out for sure.  But probably I won't.

Have you forgotten posting the following yesterday..


I have a number of questions for Mr Grime.  If you have a contact method for him, please enlighten me.

After all, if I don't ask, I am unlikely to get answers.