UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: misty on March 13, 2018, 05:51:54 PM
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1pvDvPRaVhgJ:portugalresident.com/attorney-general-receives-%25E2%2580%259Cnew-theory%25E2%2580%259D-over-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on March 13, 2018
Attorney General receives “new theory” over disappearance of Madeleine McCann
A team of independent investigators working over the last decade has come up with what it believes happened to Madeleine McCann.
Just as the British Home Office is reported to be considering a new request by Metropolitan Police for the funding of its long-running Operation Grange investigation, the theory has landed on the desk of Portugal’s Attorney General.
It is explosive, it does not work to the accepted timeline, and it does not involve Portuguese gypsies or Eastern European child smugglers.
The objective of the 20-page letter, translated into Portuguese, is to prompt judicial authorities towards a reinvestigation.
Explains one the group’s principal spokespeople - a retired Nottinghamshire police superintendent - “it is important that people follow this logically, and without preconceptions, however shocking the conclusion may seem”.
“There is strong evidence, for example, that the famous Pool Photo was not taken on Thursday 3rd as was claimed.
“Weather reports, personal diaries, and many hundreds of photos on sites such as Flickr show that Thursday lunchtime was overcast and there was a cold Force 4 wind”.
The retired police officer is convinced that the mystery is “a very simple sad story” that for reasons unclear has been hopelessly muddled up.
As to why this may be the case, his response was a prememptory: “No Comment”.
“Any answers I give at this point would be personal opinions not based on facts or knowledge and therefore best avoided”, he said.
“It might be, after all, that the findings have "got through" and that a final answer is just around the corner.
“The last FOI (Freedom of Information) report from Grange stated there had been flights to Portugal in 2017:
“To date there have been 2 return flights to Portugal this year.
“In March three officers flew to Portugal at a total cost of £750 - whilst in May 2 officers flew to Portugal, costs being £500.
“To do WHAT ?
“How many of these had we heard about ?
“And don't forget that the CPS lawyers visited Portugal to speak to counterparts a couple of years ago . . .”
Thus for now, the team that calls itself the Madeleine McCann Research group waits.
The letter was sent on March 6 and has been tracked as having reached its destination.
Said one of the group’s members: “We can only hope the authorities take notice. If our findings get published in the Portuguese media, the authorities might be obliged to make an official statement and it might get reported in the UK.
“And then things finally might be able to move forwards…”
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
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Presumably Peter Mac (& Amaral's) latest project.
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1pvDvPRaVhgJ:portugalresident.com/attorney-general-receives-%25E2%2580%259Cnew-theory%25E2%2580%259D-over-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on March 13, 2018
Attorney General receives “new theory” over disappearance of Madeleine McCann
A team of independent investigators working over the last decade has come up with what it believes happened to Madeleine McCann.
Just as the British Home Office is reported to be considering a new request by Metropolitan Police for the funding of its long-running Operation Grange investigation, the theory has landed on the desk of Portugal’s Attorney General.
It is explosive, it does not work to the accepted timeline, and it does not involve Portuguese gypsies or Eastern European child smugglers.
The objective of the 20-page letter, translated into Portuguese, is to prompt judicial authorities towards a reinvestigation.
Explains one the group’s principal spokespeople - a retired Nottinghamshire police superintendent - “it is important that people follow this logically, and without preconceptions, however shocking the conclusion may seem”.
“There is strong evidence, for example, that the famous Pool Photo was not taken on Thursday 3rd as was claimed.
“Weather reports, personal diaries, and many hundreds of photos on sites such as Flickr show that Thursday lunchtime was overcast and there was a cold Force 4 wind”.
The retired police officer is convinced that the mystery is “a very simple sad story” that for reasons unclear has been hopelessly muddled up.
As to why this may be the case, his response was a prememptory: “No Comment”.
“Any answers I give at this point would be personal opinions not based on facts or knowledge and therefore best avoided”, he said.
“It might be, after all, that the findings have "got through" and that a final answer is just around the corner.
“The last FOI (Freedom of Information) report from Grange stated there had been flights to Portugal in 2017:
“To date there have been 2 return flights to Portugal this year.
“In March three officers flew to Portugal at a total cost of £750 - whilst in May 2 officers flew to Portugal, costs being £500.
“To do WHAT ?
“How many of these had we heard about ?
“And don't forget that the CPS lawyers visited Portugal to speak to counterparts a couple of years ago . . .”
Thus for now, the team that calls itself the Madeleine McCann Research group waits.
The letter was sent on March 6 and has been tracked as having reached its destination.
Said one of the group’s members: “We can only hope the authorities take notice. If our findings get published in the Portuguese media, the authorities might be obliged to make an official statement and it might get reported in the UK.
“And then things finally might be able to move forwards…”
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
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Presumably Peter Mac (& Amaral's) latest project.
Does it include the alerts made by the two cadaver dogs
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Does it include the alerts made by the two cadaver dogs
LOL. Presumably so, as no sceptic theory is complete without them.
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I expect that the PJ will be well impressed with being expected to wade through yet another 20-page missive based on "explosive" evidence that would in fact most likely require moving PdL to the east of Faro....
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Even if the last photo wasn't taken on the Thursday what difference does it make?
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You had my hopes up there for a minute Misty until I realised who the likely author of this "explosive" report is. How mischevious of Natasha Donn to give this any coverage whatsoever, but I guess it will help sell her little paper.
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Even if the last photo wasn't taken on the Thursday what difference does it make?
It would indicate deception.
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You had my hopes up there for a minute Misty until I realised who the likely author of this "explosive" report is. How mischevious of Natasha Donn to give this any coverage whatsoever, but I guess it will help sell her little paper.
What I posted is a cached copy from earlier today. It will be interesting to see if it makes the main page tonight.
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Even if the last photo wasn't taken on the Thursday what difference does it make?
Something to do with a certain theory that she died soon after arrival, because one "researcher"'s "analysis" was that no statement of having seen her could be considered to be reliable. Or something. Therefore the last photo had to be discredited to fit in.
Alternative ones over time have been that she was cloned for the pharmaceutical industry and taken there as an experiment, that she never existed anyway... I expect others can think of a few more.
Take your pick.
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What I posted is a cached copy from earlier today. It will be interesting to see if it makes the main page tonight.
Ah. I was about to ask why you posted a cached copy...
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It seems strange that I'm not allowed to refer to these people as numpties when they have investigated the case for ten years... Have sent a report to the Portuguese... But don't realise there was only one cadaver dog not two...
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It seems strange that I'm not allowed to refer to these people as numpties when they have investigated the case for ten years... Have sent a report to the Portuguese... But don't realise there was only one cadaver dog not two...
Who has said anything about the number of cadaver dogs?
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Who has said anything about the number of cadaver dogs?
I have posted before... This group has, reported that martin grime...and his two cadaver dogs... That is something of a basic error... If anyone can take them seriously when they make such a basic error is beyond me
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I have posted before... This group has, reported that martin grime...and his two cadaver dogs... That is something of a basic error... If anyone can take them seriously when they make such a basic error is beyond me
You are jumping to conclusions Davel for there is nothing about the dogs in this latest report, and if both the EVRD and CSI dog are called "cadaver dogs" who cares.
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You are jumping to conclusions Davel for there is nothing about the dogs in this latest report, and if both the EVRD and CSI dog are called "cadaver dogs" who cares.
it seems I know a lot more about this report than you do having read the background from where it came...
who cares re the dogs...anyone who is interested in the precise facts...otherwise its garbage in and garbage out...and there s a lot of garbage about....but carry on if you think detail is not important
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You are jumping to conclusions Davel for there is nothing about the dogs in this latest report, and if both the EVRD and CSI dog are called "cadaver dogs" who cares.
You've seen this report ?
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You've seen this report ?
..do you not realise where it comes from?
it is perfectly obvious where it comes from imo.
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..do you not realise where it comes from?
It would seem that Natasha's article has now been pulled as a bigger newspaper is going to publish a more comprehensive piece (watch this space).
I can only speculate why the report was sent straight to the top of the PJ rather than to the team currently investigating.........
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Those behind the report seem to think they are exposing some conspiracy and showing their true knowledge of the case when in reality they are showing how little they understand the evidence...and this from the leading sceptic site...they really are exposing themselves to ridicule
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I have posted before... This group has, reported that martin grime...and his two cadaver dogs... That is something of a basic error... If anyone can take them seriously when they make such a basic error is beyond me
Don’t get too excited Davel but for once I actually agree with you.
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Somewhat at a disadvantage as I have no idea who this group is, or what they have produced. The article doesn't really say.
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Somewhat at a disadvantage as I have no idea who this group is, or what they have produced. The article doesn't really say.
then there are those who understand what is going on more than others
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then there are those who understand what is going on more than others
Just come out with a name IYO please.
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Makes your mind go in a spin - so then why did the nannies produce records that she was at creche. Mind boggling really.
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Makes your mind go in a spin - so then why did the nannies produce records that she was a creche. Mind boggling really.
yes ..they are total numpties
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yes ..they are total numptiess
Some would argue the Tapas were total numptees for leaving their children alone and one getting stole like...
But its good to see the ole hypocracy cat raise it head... oh they are calling us names on other threads please make it stop.... lol
I think the weather report may be used to solve a problem re the moving door trigger.. Kate saying it was cold so Maddie was snuggled up in bed and Gerry saying he found her as he left her on top of the covers as it was warm... *%87.
The timeline is also well worth forensic analysis. Removing Tanner man and we only have Kate ,Gerry and David Payne (who can't seem to recall much of that visit- it being important!) are the last people to see young Maddie alive before being hailed as .'missing' Now what time was this?
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Some would argue the Tapas were total numptees for leaving their children alone and one getting stole like...
But its good to see the ole hypocracy cat raise it head... oh they are calling us names on other threads please make it stop.... lol
I think the weather report may be used to solve a problem re the moving door trigger.. Kate saying it was cold so Maddie was snuggled up in bed and Gerry saying he found her as he left her on top of the covers as it was warm... *%87.
The timeline is also well worth forensic analysis. Removing Tanner man and we only have Kate ,Gerry and David Payne (who can't seem to recall much of that visit- it being important!) are the last people to see young Maddie alive before being hailed as .'missing' Now what time was this?
Im sure the portuguese will give it the consideration it deserves..do you really expect the portuguese to take any notice of this
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Im sure the portuguese will give it the consideration it deserves..do you really expect the portuguese to take any notice of this
I have no idea and care even less. I believe the PJ made some mistakes, but were on the right track regarding the investigation. Namely not trusting the McCanns 'story'
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I have no idea and care even less. I believe the PJ made some mistakes, but were on the right track regarding the investigation. Namely not trusting the McCanns 'story'
I expect it has already been thrown in the bin
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I expect it has already been thrown in the bin
Oh I expect it still has a few media pages to fill... and it would be very wrong if they didn't investigate properly now would it. They have already investigated stranger abduction and came up with.... well.... nothing!
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In my opinion forming or joining groups can lead to mistakes and an overdeveloped sense of importance. Then dossiers and reports are produced which the group think have significance when they really don't. Convincing yourself and your mates is one thing, convincing the authorities is quite another.
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In my opinion forming or joining groups can lead to mistakes and an overdeveloped sense of importance. Then dossiers and reports are produced which the group think have significance when they really don't. Convincing yourself and your mates is one thing, convincing the authorities is quite another.
Indeed G. Yes didnt a supporters group get their 'dossier ' thrown out by police...
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It is pretty obvious to me where this Theory has come from. A bunch of very peculiar persons have been pushing this for years, and have now sent a very long winded and very boring account of what they think happened to The AG of Portugal, none of which makes any logical sense whatsoever.
I much doubt that The AG of Portugal will have any trouble with insomnia for the next week. If he reads it at all, that is. To date, I have never been able to get through more that a fraction of what has gone before, on you all know where.
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It is pretty obvious to me where this Theory has come from. A bunch of very peculiar persons have been pushing this for years, and have now sent a very long winded and very boring account of what they think happened to The AG of Portugal, none of which makes any logical sense whatsoever.
I much doubt that The AG of Portugal will have any trouble with insomnia for the next week. If he reads it at all, that is. To date, I have never been able to get through more that a fraction of what has gone before, on you all know where.
It is pretty obvious to me a bunch of peculiar persons have been pushing stranger abduction for years... So, why call out on others with theories.
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It is pretty obvious to me a bunch of peculiar persons have been pushing stranger abduction for years... So, why call out on others with theories.
Abduction is the simplest and most plausible explanation in this case, with "died before the 3rd, and death covered up by both parents and half a dozen of their friends, aided and abetted by senior members of government and UK police" probably the least likely - all in my opinion of course.
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Abduction is the simplest and most plausible explanation in this case, with "died before the 3rd, and death covered up by both parents and half a dozen of their friends, aided and abetted by senior members of government and UK police" probably the least likely - all in my opinion of course.
And no one is working on your opinion, not the PJ or Og Or anyone else... no evidence kills that.
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It is pretty obvious to me where this Theory has come from. A bunch of very peculiar persons have been pushing this for years, and have now sent a very long winded and very boring account of what they think happened to The AG of Portugal, none of which makes any logical sense whatsoever.
I much doubt that The AG of Portugal will have any trouble with insomnia for the next week. If he reads it at all, that is. To date, I have never been able to get through more that a fraction of what has gone before, on you all know where.
What ever their theory is its no more ridiculous than that of SY who had its officers scrambling around the Portuguese country side in search of evidence to support a theory of a burglary gone wrong some seven years previous, IMO of course.
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And no one is working on your opinion, not the PJ or Og Or anyone else... no evidence kills that.
How do you know what they're working on, out of interest? All the information we know for certain seems to point to the premise that the Met are treating this as a case of stranger abduction and /or murder.
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In my opinion forming or joining groups can lead to mistakes and an overdeveloped sense of importance. Then dossiers and reports are produced which the group think have significance when they really don't. Convincing yourself and your mates is one thing, convincing the authorities is quite another.
This is exactly what this group appear to have done
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This is exactly what this group appear to have done
As did a group of supporters who collated a dossier of 'evidence' which was handed to the UK police. They thought it was going to lead to prosecutions, but it didn't.
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As did a group of supporters who collated a dossier of 'evidence' which was handed to the UK police. They thought it was going to lead to prosecutions, but it didn't.
It didn't and in my opinion that is because of failure in the law ... but not to worry ... it may have been slow to take off but the serious nature of on line abuse is at last being recognised in England and Wales. In my opinion a situation which is long overdue.
Snip
Online hate crimes should be treated as seriously as abuse committed face-to-face, prosecutors in England and Wales have been told.
Revising its guidance for prosecutors, the Crown Prosecution Service said the impact of tweeting abuse can be as "equally devastating" as shouting it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40981235
However at risk of veering back On Topic ... one really has to wonder at the collective mentality of this group as they have, in my opinion, seethed away at the outrage that Madeleine McCann's parents pulled off the impossible and got a meaningful professional investigation going into Madeleine's disappearance both here (Scotland Yard) and in Portugal (Policia Judiciaria).
Why on earth have they taken it upon themselves to present this drivel to the Portuguese Attorney General at this late stage in proceedings?
With reference to the content of the opening post ... which apparently has been consigned to its rightful dustbin somewhere ... what can one say?
Has it passed them by that Madeleine's case has been in the process of being re-investigated since it was reopened in 2013 and hopefully funding will be approved to take it to its conclusion.
What motivates such malice towards a child for which this group pretends to demand justice while interfering assiduously in every vehicle capable of providing that justice ... makes me wonder if they think the Portuguese OG is actually going to read a twenty page catalogue of delusion before consigning it to the Paiva file. Or is it just another of their meaningful but meaningless gestures.
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As did a group of supporters who collated a dossier of 'evidence' which was handed to the UK police. They thought it was going to lead to prosecutions, but it didn't.
The difference is the dossier contained the actual evidence and at the time there was no one investigating the abuse
The sceptic dossier is a load of made up evidence in a case that is currently being investigated
I applaud the abuse dossier... On line abuse is something that needs to be, addressed
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The difference is the dossier contained the actual evidence and at the time there was no one investigating the abuse
The sceptic dossier is a load of made up evidence in a Cade that is currently being investigated
I applaud the abuse dossier... On line abuse is something that needs to be, addressed
Both dossiers were compiled by people with IMO way too much time on their hands and no meaningful way in which to use it.
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Both dossiers were compiled by people with IMO way too much time on their hands and no meaningful way in which to use it.
In my opinion ... that is exactly troo of those who went to the trouble of composing the trash compiled.
PS ... you seem to be sliding back into the bad habit of forgetting the all important "in my opinion".
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Both dossiers were compiled by people with IMO way too much time on their hands and no meaningful way in which to use it.
I agree entirely. Just as, imo, those who pester Operation Grange with their 'theories' and 'evidence' are misguided.
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It didn't and in my opinion that is because of failure in the law ... but not to worry ... it may have been slow to take off but the serious nature of on line abuse is at last being recognised in England and Wales. In my opinion a situation which is long overdue.
Snip
What motivates such malice towards a child for which this group pretends to demand justice while interfering assiduously in every vehicle capable of providing that justice ... makes me wonder if they think the Portuguese OG is actually going to read a twenty page catalogue of delusion before consigning it to the Paiva file. Or is it just another of their meaningful but meaningless gestures.
You seem to condemn others view of a failure in the law to prosecute those who IMO were guilty of child neglect.
Again you conflate a poor opinion of the McCanns with malice towards Madeleine.
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You seem to condemn others view of a failure in the law to prosecute those who IMO were guilty of child neglect.
Again you conflate a poor opinion of the McCanns with malice towards Madeleine.
It all depends on how one interprets "a poor opinion" of a missing child's parents when it is used to justify straining every sinew to organise campaign after campaign against their valiant efforts to help their daughter.
Not even letting up when Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria really are leaving no stone unturned as this 'latest theory' twenty page rehash of the hate of nearly eleven years wings it way to the Portuguese AG.
What motivates these individuals? Is it fear that Madeleine might actually be found? If they claim to have Madeleine's best interests at heart ... why aren't they content to let SY and the PJ get on with their jobs?
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It all depends on how one interprets "a poor opinion" of a missing child's parents when it is used to justify straining every sinew to organise campaign after campaign against their valiant efforts to help their daughter.
Not even letting up when Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria really are leaving no stone unturned as this 'latest theory' twenty page rehash of the hate of nearly eleven years wings it way to the Portuguese AG.
What motivates these individuals? Is it fear that Madeleine might actually be found? If they claim to have Madeleine's best interests at heart ... why aren't they content to let SY and the PJ get on with their jobs?
Why should it be?
Almost nobody has any serious commitment to this case, post anonymously and therefore lose nothing if Madeleine was to turn up alive at some future date.
No one is influencing OG, whatever they think or post.
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If the Oporto PJ team are in the process of, or already have, presented their case for prosecution to the AG, would the PJ be obliged to investigate the evidence contained in the Research Group's report before the AG could make a decision on the case?
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Those who believe The McCanns, will not be shamed if The McCanns are proved to have been involved.
Those who don't believe The McCanns could well be seem differently.
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As we are all, or almost all anonymous, it makes not a jot of difference.
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I know you weren't asking me, but I'm amazed that anybody can be sufficiently obsessed to be bothered producing it.
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I know you weren't asking me, but I'm amazed that anybody can be sufficiently obsessed to be bothered producing it.
I have to agree with you on this. But it is probably a copy and paste job of all of the trash which was produced in the past.
But since anyone who even remotely tried to question any of it was banned long ago then they have completely lost touch with the reality of logistics.
I prefer not to speculate on the obsession since it is a bit beyond me.
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My opinion of the report? See my post #51. No-one, in my opinion, should take it upon themselves to interfere in police matters. That includes all those who think they know better than the police whether it includes identifying, investigating or solving crime.
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I know you weren't asking me, but I'm amazed that anybody can be sufficiently obsessed to be bothered producing it.
The description 'discussion forum' suggests that we can all join with anyone and about anything, so in my opinion you should feel free and welcome to do that ... particularly as your comment is on topic!
Obviously I haven't read the twenty page tome but coming from the stable it does I doubt if anything it contains could be loosely termed 'new'.
As it has been almost eleven years in the making I think obsession is the perfect word to used to describe it and like you, I am bemused about their motivation for doing so. Then almost everything they do bemuses me.
What do you think they hope to achieve?
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The description 'discussion forum' suggests that we can all join with anyone and about anything, so in my opinion you should feel free and welcome to do that ... particularly as your comment is on topic!
Obviously I haven't read the twenty page tome but coming from the stable it does I doubt if anything it contains could be loosely termed 'new'.
As it has been almost eleven years in the making I think obsession is the perfect word to used to describe it and like you, I am bemused about their motivation for doing so. Then almost everything they do bemuses me.
What do you think they hope to achieve?
They want The McCanns hanged, drawn and quartered, preferably in public. In My Opinion, of course.
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The description 'discussion forum' suggests that we can all join with anyone and about anything, so in my opinion you should feel free and welcome to do that ... particularly as your comment is on topic!
Obviously I haven't read the twenty page tome but coming from the stable it does I doubt if anything it contains could be loosely termed 'new'.
As it has been almost eleven years in the making I think obsession is the perfect word to used to describe it and like you, I am bemused about their motivation for doing so. Then almost everything they do bemuses me.
What do you think they hope to achieve?
I really don't know. What is it with people who send their documents to the police in the belief that any notice will be taken of them.
Bit like prowling around PDL taking photographs and measurements all over the place. What do they expect to achieve ?
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I really don't know. What is it with people who send their documents to the police in the belief that any notice will be taken of them.
Bit like prowling around PDL taking photographs and measurements all over the place. What do they expect to achieve ?
Definitely plenty of scope there for discussion on two or three fronts but limiting it to discussion of the current twenty pager (I believe some folk would refer to that as a book!) like you, neither can I fathom what they think they are doing.
In my opinion, if this group had any credibility at all, they have blown it with one fell swoop. I doubt the AG will be over the moon about these amateurs presuming to know better than the Policia Judiciaria. But that apart, it is the timing of this latest venture which I find intriguing ... why now?
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Definitely plenty of scope there for discussion on two or three fronts but limiting it to discussion of the current twenty pager (I believe some folk would refer to that as a book!) like you, neither can I fathom what they think they are doing.
In my opinion, if this group had any credibility at all, they have blown it with one fell swoop. I doubt the AG will be over the moon about these amateurs presuming to know better than the Policia Judiciaria. But that apart, it is the timing of this latest venture which I find intriguing ... why now?
The Portuguese were saying they were going to keep their investigation going even if SY stop theirs so it makes sense to involve the Portuguese rather than the UK half.
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The Portuguese were saying they were going to keep their investigation going even if SY stop theirs so it makes sense to involve the Portuguese rather than the UK half.
I think you will find the portuguese have been approached because SY are considered to be complicit in a cover up
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I think you will find the portuguese have been approached because SY are considered to be complicit in a cover up
Why would they think that?
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Abduction is the simplest and most plausible explanation in this case, with "died before the 3rd, and death covered up by both parents and half a dozen of their friends, aided and abetted by senior members of government and UK police" probably the least likely - all in my opinion of course.
Don't forget the nannies are either mistaken, or have been bribed. Anyone who says they saw Madeleine are wrong.
They are calling all witnesses who say they saw Madeleine as being liars in other words. Why on earth would they say they have seen Madeleine if they haven't? Surely they would say they weren't sure rather than say they did, they were speaking to the Police after all.
I find it quite arrogant that they dispute these witnesses and what they say so that their idea of what happened to Madeleine can be shown to be plausible.
Kate went to the crèche and didn't take Madeleine, even though the nanny said Madeleine came out pleased to see her Mum or Dad and Kate was eager to talk about what Madeleine had been doing in the crèche. Who she was talking about is anyone's guess if Madeleine wasn't with her. It's quite mad IMO
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Don't forget the nannies are either mistaken, or have been bribed. Anyone who says they saw Madeleine are wrong.
They are calling all witnesses who say they saw Madeleine as being liars in other words. Why on earth would they say they have seen Madeleine if they haven't? Surely they would say they weren't sure rather than say they did, they were speaking to the Police after all.
I find it quite arrogant that they dispute these witnesses and what they say so that their idea of what happened to Madeleine can be shown to be plausible.
Kate went to the crèche and didn't take Madeleine, even though the nanny said Madeleine came out pleased to see her Mum or Dad and Kate was eager to talk about what Madeleine had been doing in the crèche. Who she was talking about is anyone's guess if Madeleine wasn't with her. It's quite mad IMO
Bit of a wasted effort as I don't suppose there's anyone on here who would disagree with you.
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Don't forget the nannies are either mistaken, or have been bribed. Anyone who says they saw Madeleine are wrong.
They are calling all witnesses who say they saw Madeleine as being liars in other words. Why on earth would they say they have seen Madeleine if they haven't? Surely they would say they weren't sure rather than say they did, they were speaking to the Police after all.
I find it quite arrogant that they dispute these witnesses and what they say so that their idea of what happened to Madeleine can be shown to be plausible.
Kate went to the crèche and didn't take Madeleine, even though the nanny said Madeleine came out pleased to see her Mum or Dad and Kate was eager to talk about what Madeleine had been doing in the crèche. Who she was talking about is anyone's guess if Madeleine wasn't with her. It's quite mad IMO
But I do understand the necessity to create a "dead before the 3rd May" narrative. It's because trying to work out a plausible theory of Madeleine dying on the 3rd and the McCanns being responsible for staging an abduction on the same day as the death is nigh on impossible. Far easier to create a workable narrative if you say the child died earlier in the holiday, however it does force one to consider all sorts of other highly implausible scenarios!
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But I do understand the necessity to create a "dead before the 3rd May" narrative. It's because trying to work out a plausible theory of Madeleine dying on the 3rd and the McCanns being responsible for staging an abduction on the same day as the death is nigh on impossible. Far easier to create a workable narrative if you say the child died earlier in the holiday, however it does force one to consider all sorts of other highly implausible scenarios!
It might have been a different situation if David Payne had not taken a video on a bus.
"Cheer up Gerry you're on Holiday" To which Gerry said (on film), "F*** off, I'm not here to enjoy myself".
I wonder who released that video to the media?
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Don't forget the nannies are either mistaken, or have been bribed. Anyone who says they saw Madeleine are wrong.
They are calling all witnesses who say they saw Madeleine as being liars in other words. Why on earth would they say they have seen Madeleine if they haven't? Surely they would say they weren't sure rather than say they did, they were speaking to the Police after all.
I find it quite arrogant that they dispute these witnesses and what they say so that their idea of what happened to Madeleine can be shown to be plausible.
Kate went to the crèche and didn't take Madeleine, even though the nanny said Madeleine came out pleased to see her Mum or Dad and Kate was eager to talk about what Madeleine had been doing in the crèche. Who she was talking about is anyone's guess if Madeleine wasn't with her. It's quite mad IMO
Really just as arrogant as individuals still talking about Tanner’s sighting as if he was Madeleine’s abductor even when OG have all but ruled him out or that Martin Smith was wrong in his identification or indeed second guessing just about everything that Grime ever said or did in connection with this case.
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1pvDvPRaVhgJ:portugalresident.com/attorney-general-receives-%25E2%2580%259Cnew-theory%25E2%2580%259D-over-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on March 13, 2018
Attorney General receives “new theory” over disappearance of Madeleine McCann
A team of independent investigators working over the last decade has come up with what it believes happened to Madeleine McCann.
Just as the British Home Office is reported to be considering a new request by Metropolitan Police for the funding of its long-running Operation Grange investigation, the theory has landed on the desk of Portugal’s Attorney General.
It is explosive, it does not work to the accepted timeline, and it does not involve Portuguese gypsies or Eastern European child smugglers.
The objective of the 20-page letter, translated into Portuguese, is to prompt judicial authorities towards a reinvestigation.
Explains one the group’s principal spokespeople - a retired Nottinghamshire police superintendent - “it is important that people follow this logically, and without preconceptions, however shocking the conclusion may seem”.
“There is strong evidence, for example, that the famous Pool Photo was not taken on Thursday 3rd as was claimed.
“Weather reports, personal diaries, and many hundreds of photos on sites such as Flickr show that Thursday lunchtime was overcast and there was a cold Force 4 wind”.
The retired police officer is convinced that the mystery is “a very simple sad story” that for reasons unclear has been hopelessly muddled up.
As to why this may be the case, his response was a prememptory: “No Comment”.
“Any answers I give at this point would be personal opinions not based on facts or knowledge and therefore best avoided”, he said.
“It might be, after all, that the findings have "got through" and that a final answer is just around the corner.
“The last FOI (Freedom of Information) report from Grange stated there had been flights to Portugal in 2017:
“To date there have been 2 return flights to Portugal this year.
“In March three officers flew to Portugal at a total cost of £750 - whilst in May 2 officers flew to Portugal, costs being £500.
“To do WHAT ?
“How many of these had we heard about ?
“And don't forget that the CPS lawyers visited Portugal to speak to counterparts a couple of years ago . . .”
Thus for now, the team that calls itself the Madeleine McCann Research group waits.
The letter was sent on March 6 and has been tracked as having reached its destination.
Said one of the group’s members: “We can only hope the authorities take notice. If our findings get published in the Portuguese media, the authorities might be obliged to make an official statement and it might get reported in the UK.
“And then things finally might be able to move forwards…”
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
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Presumably Peter Mac (& Amaral's) latest project.
A good catch misty. Natasha Donn has obviously been wrong footed on this one and it has been pulled by the editor for legal reasons.
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But I do understand the necessity to create a "dead before the 3rd May" narrative. It's because trying to work out a plausible theory of Madeleine dying on the 3rd and the McCanns being responsible for staging an abduction on the same day as the death is nigh on impossible. Far easier to create a workable narrative if you say the child died earlier in the holiday, however it does force one to consider all sorts of other highly implausible scenarios!
Nonsense it's impossible. Cadaver odour doesn't take days to develop. You don't hide a corpse in an apartment for days. Ridiculous theory. Did the cleaner notice any smells on the day prior? Nobody noticed smells in that apartment but the hire car is a different story!
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A good catch misty. Natasha Donn has obviously been wrong footed on this one and it has been pulled by the editor for legal reasons.
I don't take any credit for the catch, John; that was down to someone else on Twitter & I happened to take a peek at the right time. Natasha pulled it herself, so I've heard - possibly the CdM want to publish the more comprehensive exclusive.
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I don't take any credit for the catch, John; that was down to someone else on Twitter & I happened to take a peek at the right time. Natasha pulled it herself, so I've heard - possibly the CdM want to publish the more comprehensive exclusive.
The article was libellous so I'm not in the least surprised it was removed so quickly.
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The article was libellous so I'm not in the least surprised it was removed so quickly.
John, I can’t see how it is libellous?
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Nonsense it's impossible. Cadaver odour doesn't take days to develop. You don't hide a corpse in an apartment for days. Ridiculous theory. Did the cleaner notice any smells on the day prior? Nobody noticed smells in that apartment but the hire car is a different story!
Don't expect me to defend their theory, but do expect me to apply similar reasoning and exasperated epithets to any theory of parental involvement, they are all pretty ludicrous, IMO.
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John, I can’t see how it is libellous?
Really?? Wow. The premise of the theory is that Madeleine died days before the night her parents say Madeleine went missing. And you can't see how that's libellous?
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John, I can’t see how it is libellous?
Have another think
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Have another think
Maybe if the pair if you actually read the article and not what you think it means you may have less problem understanding.
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Maybe if the pair if you actually read the article and not what you think it means you may have less problem understanding.
It says the McCann's lied about the last photograph
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It says the McCann's lied about the last photograph
“There is strong evidence, for example, that the famous Pool Photo was not taken on Thursday 3rd as was claimed.
Can’t see lied in there.
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It says the McCann's lied about the last photograph
Absolutely, the article infers that there was a conspiracy and a cover-up in relation to when Maddie died. I know some journalists are a bit thick but I would have thought Natasha Donn would have realised what she was publishing was libel. Then again, maybe not... *%87
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Can’t see lied in there.
If you Google libel you will see it can be an inference
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Absolutely, the article infers that there was a conspiracy and a cover-up in relation to when Maddie died. I know some journalists are a bit thick but I would have thought Natasha Donn would have realised what she was publishing was libel. Then again, maybe not... *%87
Presumably she had an editor who initially thought it was OK
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Maybe if the pair if you actually read the article and not what you think it means you may have less problem understanding.
I don't have a problem but that article clearly implies the McCanns are liars.
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I don't have a problem but that article clearly implies the McCanns are liars.
Or at least mistaken. I take it Gerry was going off the Metadata on the photo as to when it was taken.
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Or at least mistaken. I take it Gerry was going off the Metadata on the photo as to when it was taken.
In my opinion the most interesting question about photographs is why the McCann's photos don't appear to have been given to the PJ.
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I don't have a problem but that article clearly implies the McCanns are liars.
Or at the least there is a suggestion that amateurs billing themselves as "independent investigators" know more than Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria.
The competence of the "independents" is questionable as they appear to be unaware that the Portuguese State has been reinvestigating Madeleine's case since 2013 when they reopened it.
Maybe the Attorney General will inform them of that technicality when she gets over her bemusement of their ignorance.
The OP states
"The objective of the 20-page letter, translated into Portuguese, is to prompt judicial authorities towards a reinvestigation."
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In my opinion the most interesting question about photographs is why the McCann's photos don't appear to have been given to the PJ.
You tend to quote extensively from the files and yet you appear to have overlooked the fact that Paiva actually came across evidence which was of interest to the investigation " ... that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, which is why these photographs, joined to the report, were printed."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm
The holiday photographs were given to the PJ ... you are in error to suggest otherwise.
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Or at the least there is a suggestion that amateurs billing themselves as "independent investigators" know more than Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria.
The competence of the "independents" is questionable as they appear to be unaware that the Portuguese State has been reinvestigating Madeleine's case since 2013 when they reopened it.
Maybe the Attorney General will inform them of that technicality when she gets over her bemusement of their ignorance.
The OP states
"The objective of the 20-page letter, translated into Portuguese, is to prompt judicial authorities towards a reinvestigation."
They don't like to old Reinvestigation so they want a new Reinvestigation, despite complaining bitterly about the cost of the old Reinvestigation, the cost of which they won't complain about if it looks like going their way.
It's the old Free Speach But Only For Me Brigade ramped up a bit.
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You tend to quote extensively from the files and yet you appear to have overlooked the fact that Paiva actually came across evidence which was of interest to the investigation " ... that there are several photographs of interest to the investigation, in which it is possible to visualise Madeleine McCann, as well as different adults and children that made up the group of friends who were on holiday together with the McCann couple in PdL, which is why these photographs, joined to the report, were printed."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm
The holiday photographs were given to the PJ ... you are in error to suggest otherwise.
The most famous photographs were the ones of Madeleine holding tennis balls and the one of her with her father and sister by the pool. Are you saying those two photographs were given to the PJ?
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The most famous photographs were the ones of Madeleine holding tennis balls and the one of her with her father and sister by the pool. Are you saying those two photographs were given to the PJ?
Those two photographs are everywhere. Are you saying that The PJ didn't have them?
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Those two photographs are everywhere. Are you saying that The PJ didn't have them?
I'm saying I can find no evidence in the files that the PJ were given those two photographs. Therefore I have formed the opinion that they weren't handed in.
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I'm saying I can find no evidence in the files that the PJ were given those two photographs. Therefore I have formed the opinion that they weren't handed in.
Is there a problem with this?
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Is there a problem with this?
No stone left unturned!
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by Get'emGonçalo Today at 10:52
Many thanks to Natasha Donn and Paulo Reis
Enlarge this image Click to see fullsize
A team of independent investigators working over the last decade has come up with what it believes may have happened to Madeleine McCann.
It is independent of the official story. It doesn’t work to the accepted timeline and it doesn’t involve gypsies, blundering burglars, or Eastern European child smugglers.
Says a member of the investigating group, the theory has been run past professionals from all walks of life, time and again.
The team are convinced that this now needs to be seriously considered by the investigative authorities.
They have communicated their findings to British prime minister Theresa May, and the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Cressida Dick (click here), but the six-page letter laying out what they believe to be “credible evidence” appears to have changed nothing (although it was purportedly forwarded to the Grange ‘investigation team’).
A new letter, translated into Portuguese - containing all the research, and the “detailed file of evidence” on which it has relied - has now been sent to the Portuguese Attorney General as well as newspaper and website journalists in this country.
Said our source: “It is a question of hoping one of them will have the courage to undertake what no-one seems willing to conduct in the UK: a serious investigation into what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann”.
This development comes just as the British Home Office is considering yet another request for funding of the Met’s long-running Operation Grange investigation.
Grange was opened in 2011 and has so far spent over £11 million investigating Madeleine’s disappearance against a backdrop of criticism, particularly over social media (click here).
As the Madeleine McCann Research Group waits to hear what develops from the 20-page letter - sent from the UK on March 6 and logged as received by the Attorney General’s office on March 12 - a leading member of the group said: “it is important that people follow this logically, and without preconceptions - however shocking the conclusion may seem”.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
http://portugalresident.com/attorney-general-receives-%E2%80%9Cnew-theory%E2%80%9D-in-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann
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by Get'emGonçalo Today at 10:52
Many thanks to Natasha Donn and Paulo Reis
Enlarge this image Click to see fullsize
A team of independent investigators working over the last decade has come up with what it believes may have happened to Madeleine McCann.
It is independent of the official story. It doesn’t work to the accepted timeline and it doesn’t involve gypsies, blundering burglars, or Eastern European child smugglers.
Says a member of the investigating group, the theory has been run past professionals from all walks of life, time and again.
The team are convinced that this now needs to be seriously considered by the investigative authorities.
They have communicated their findings to British prime minister Theresa May, and the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Cressida Dick (click here), but the six-page letter laying out what they believe to be “credible evidence” appears to have changed nothing (although it was purportedly forwarded to the Grange ‘investigation team’).
A new letter, translated into Portuguese - containing all the research, and the “detailed file of evidence” on which it has relied - has now been sent to the Portuguese Attorney General as well as newspaper and website journalists in this country.
Said our source: “It is a question of hoping one of them will have the courage to undertake what no-one seems willing to conduct in the UK: a serious investigation into what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann”.
This development comes just as the British Home Office is considering yet another request for funding of the Met’s long-running Operation Grange investigation.
Grange was opened in 2011 and has so far spent over £11 million investigating Madeleine’s disappearance against a backdrop of criticism, particularly over social media (click here).
As the Madeleine McCann Research Group waits to hear what develops from the 20-page letter - sent from the UK on March 6 and logged as received by the Attorney General’s office on March 12 - a leading member of the group said: “it is important that people follow this logically, and without preconceptions - however shocking the conclusion may seem”.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
http://portugalresident.com/attorney-general-receives-%E2%80%9Cnew-theory%E2%80%9D-in-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann
Why have you mentioned Paulo Reis?
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by Get'emGonçalo Today at 10:52
Many thanks to Natasha Donn and Paulo Reis
Enlarge this image Click to see fullsize
A team of independent investigators working over the last decade has come up with what it believes may have happened to Madeleine McCann.
It is independent of the official story. It doesn’t work to the accepted timeline and it doesn’t involve gypsies, blundering burglars, or Eastern European child smugglers.
Says a member of the investigating group, the theory has been run past professionals from all walks of life, time and again.
The team are convinced that this now needs to be seriously considered by the investigative authorities.
They have communicated their findings to British prime minister Theresa May, and the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Cressida Dick (click here), but the six-page letter laying out what they believe to be “credible evidence” appears to have changed nothing (although it was purportedly forwarded to the Grange ‘investigation team’).
A new letter, translated into Portuguese - containing all the research, and the “detailed file of evidence” on which it has relied - has now been sent to the Portuguese Attorney General as well as newspaper and website journalists in this country.
Said our source: “It is a question of hoping one of them will have the courage to undertake what no-one seems willing to conduct in the UK: a serious investigation into what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann”.
This development comes just as the British Home Office is considering yet another request for funding of the Met’s long-running Operation Grange investigation.
Grange was opened in 2011 and has so far spent over £11 million investigating Madeleine’s disappearance against a backdrop of criticism, particularly over social media (click here).
As the Madeleine McCann Research Group waits to hear what develops from the 20-page letter - sent from the UK on March 6 and logged as received by the Attorney General’s office on March 12 - a leading member of the group said: “it is important that people follow this logically, and without preconceptions - however shocking the conclusion may seem”.
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
http://portugalresident.com/attorney-general-receives-%E2%80%9Cnew-theory%E2%80%9D-in-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann
So a new version with the libel removed
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So, let's see.
Options:
a. The PJ never asked for cameras or phones.
b. They did.
c. Despite an inordinate amount of time trying to track the source of ink for the photos hastily printed out on the night as a handout, the PJ never noticed that two were missing, and never read the press to wonder why and ask for them.
d. The PJ have them, but they are in the "secret files" as evidence that metadata had been tampered with.
e. The PJ had them but whoever uploaded the accessible files missed doing so, along with some other missing pages.
f. ...
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So a new version with the libel removed
@)(++(*
Including the bit that the PJ got things "muddled up".
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I'm not sure if linking to blogs denigrating other members of the forum is allowed or not?
iF TONY IS A MEMBER IT WOULD BE UP TO HIM TO COMPLAIN.
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Posted by Havern
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14978-assunto-o-desaparecimento-de-madeleine-mccann-novas-provas-sobre-o-que-aconteceu#383196
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translation:
Get'emGonçalo Today at 13:52
I'll be posting it soon, just waiting for Paulo to give me the nod.
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Posted by Havern
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14978-assunto-o-desaparecimento-de-madeleine-mccann-novas-provas-sobre-o-que-aconteceu#383196
Is this the same investigative group that was supposed to have had the crèche signatures analysed by the FBI over 9 years ago that never materialised, do you think?
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Looks round for Rod Taylor...... *%87
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Looks round for Rod Taylor...... *%87
"Time Machine"?
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Is this the same investigative group that was supposed to have had the crèche signatures analysed by the FBI over 9 years ago that never materialised, do you think?
this will be the usual crew, Bennett, Hall, ho ho and the ace ex det. etc.
The creche records were propoganda rubbish from Reis and co.
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this will be the usual crew, Bennett, Hall, ho ho and the ace ex det. etc.
The creche records were propoganda rubbish from Reis and co.
From memory there were two rumours circulating at that time. According to rumour and blog posts of "hope". this investigative group had asked the FBI (didn't they? Or was if FBI-trained experts?) for forensic analysis of:
1. signature forgery
2. ink analysis of the signatures
Nine years on, many of us are still waiting.
Come to think of it, whatever happened to the 24 photos that were supposed to blow the whole case apart?
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J. Morais
What is not true/does not exist/incorrect fabrications :
The 24 photos - The story according to Duarte: a Spanish tourist that was on the night of 3 of May having dinner at the Ocean Club's restaurant known as Tapas Bar takes some photos which show a few of the Tapas group members and how some, like Kate McCann, changed clothes; then the Spanish tourist back in Spain is robbed, his apartment was broken in and the camera with the alleged photos is taken; then the camera and the thief are found by the Spanish police; then Duarte worked as a middle man between the Spanish tourist the PJ and the British media who had an interest and wanted to buy the alleged photos.
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J. Morais
What is not true/does not exist/incorrect fabrications :
The 24 photos - The story according to Duarte: a Spanish tourist that was on the night of 3 of May having dinner at the Ocean Club's restaurant known as Tapas Bar takes some photos which show a few of the Tapas group members and how some, like Kate McCann, changed clothes; then the Spanish tourist back in Spain is robbed, his apartment was broken in and the camera with the alleged photos is taken; then the camera and the thief are found by the Spanish police; then Duarte worked as a middle man between the Spanish tourist the PJ and the British media who had an interest and wanted to buy the alleged photos.
Thanks for that reminder, Byron.
Clarification about the article in the newspaper The People, of August 17, 2008
The information published today by the newspaper The People, concerning myself, are false. In the days between the 9th and 15th of August, I was contacted by and have met with several British journalists (*), at their request, about the witness who claimed to have seen Madeleine McCann, in Brussels, and about the article published by myself and Paulo Reis, about the existence of 24 photos, taken the night of May 3rd, by tourists who were in the Tapas Bar.
My help had been asked, by these colleagues, because, besides the fact that they did not speak French, they did not know Brussels, did not know where and to towards whom to turn to investigate the case of the witness who claimed to have seen Madeleine.
As it the custom amongst professional colleagues, I have met with these journalists and I've helped in everything that has been possible for me. As is obvious, we have talked about the Madeleine McCann case, about the information published recently in my blog and in the blog of my colleague Paulo Reis, we exchanged our impressions and comments. I will not reproduce the comments of my English colleagues, because private conversations are private conversations - at least, for principled people.
So that it is clear: I have not, in my possession, no part (evidence) that would be of interest to the authorities or could concern the investigation of a crime.
Duarte Levy
August 17, 2008
(*) Nick Fagge & Jonathan Buckmaster - Daily Express / Lucy Hagan - The Sun / Julie (?) Daily Mail / Emily Miller - The Mirror / James Millbank - The People (14 and 15 August)
Published on Paulo's blog:
https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/duarte-levy-and-people-story.html
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I wonder if his time spent for translation is in any way related to his allegedly upcoming ebook?
https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.ch/2018/02/em-e-book-disponivel-partir-de-28-de.html
From what I've read elsewhere (with no certainty as to veracity) is that it's an analysis of the UK tabloid media onslaught against PT. *
If that's the case, I'd find it interesting to read as an academic research study, but who is actually going to buy a journalist's account of it 11 years on?
* (For the record, I do find the UK xenophobic tabloid media to be an utter disgrace.)
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Anorak's take on this:
http://www.anorak.co.uk/448387/
NB: factual error, she disappeared in 2007, not 2003.
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https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14979-letter-to-portugal-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-new-evidence-of-what-happened-to-her#383206
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I thought all this was declared rubbish within the first dozen or so posts.
Why the continued interest?
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For anyone interested, here is a link to the full letter sent to the PJ Chief Prosecutor in Portugal.
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14979-letter-to-portugal-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-new-evidence-of-what-happened-to-her
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I thought all this was declared rubbish within the first dozen or so posts.
Why the continued interest?
It was reported in the PT press by Natasha Donn, in what is now known as the Portuguese Resident, formerly known as the Algarve Resident (not to be confused with Portugal News). natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
What has her stance been in her numerous other articles on the case?
Perhaps one should ask her as to why she was disseminating this?
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It was reported in the PT press by Natasha Donn, in what is now known as the Portuguese Resident (not to be confused with Portugal News, and formerly known as Algarve Resident). natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
What has her stance been in her numerous other articles on the case?
Perhaps one should ask her as to why she was disseminating this?
I agree, its a sad day for journalism when this rubbish gets into the msm.
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Clearly this research group are not concerned about increasing the cost of the investigation if they want OG/PJ to give their research due consideration. Perhaps all paths have led a little too close to home and this latest stunt is a last-ditch attempt at deflection.
IMO.
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I agree, its a sad day for journalism when this rubbish gets into the msm.
Well, if she lives in the area, maybe getting on the wrong side of the "old-school" PJ fan club might not be a good idea...
No idea.
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Clearly this research group are not concerned about increasing the cost of the investigation if they want OG/PJ to give their research due consideration. Perhaps all paths have led a little too close to home and this latest stunt is a last-ditch attempt at deflection.
IMO.
I hadn't really thought of that one, Misty...
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Clearly this research group are not concerned about increasing the cost of the investigation if they want OG/PJ to give their research due consideration. Perhaps all paths have led a little too close to home and this latest stunt is a last-ditch attempt at deflection.
IMO.
Who or what is it going to deflect?
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Who is it going to deflect?
Put it this way - if someone other than the McCanns (or friends) is arrested, can you imagine the deafening howls of protest should the MMRG's research not have been seen to have been investigated?
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Does anyone have the energy to do a comparison cut-and-paste job of what was eventually snipped?
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Bennett will be doing more than deflecting if CR can prove his paws are all over this and call in their £47.000
Not surprising that MacLeod is chief spokesman.
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Bennett will be doing more than deflecting if CR can prove his paws are all over this and call in their £47.000
Not surprising that MacLeod is chief spokesman.
Personally, I think it is way too funny to bother with.
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Put it this way - if someone other than the McCanns (or friends) is arrested, can you imagine the deafening howls of protest should the MMRG's research not have been seen to have been investigated?
I don't think police pay much attention to howls of protest.
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I don't think police pay much attention to howls of protest.
Maybe that explains why the letter was sent direct to the Portuguese AG, totally bypassing the PJ.
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Maybe that explains why the letter was sent direct to the Portuguese AG, totally bypassing the PJ.
But they don't investigate, so not likely to be bothered by any howls either. IMO
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But they don't investigate, so not likely to be bothered by any howls either. IMO
Kids play soccer on a mud patch pitch delineated by sweaters with the goal posts marked out by a bigger heap of sweaters.
They think it is Wembley and have a fun time with it. As they grow older some play "real" soccer, some move onto other things. Some remain as they were but move to compiling dossiers and stuff they think is of importantance* to the world at large.
edit:
* what a lovely word I think I'll leave it as it is !
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But they don't investigate, so not likely to be bothered by any howls either. IMO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ministry_(Portugal)
snipped
The superior body of the Public Prosecution Service is the Procuradoria-Geral da República (attorney-general's office), presided by the Procurador-Geral da República (PGR).
The PGR is the only magistrate of the Public Prosecution Service that is politically designated, being proposed by the Government and appointed by the President of the Republic for six years in office. The PGR is also the only magistrate of the Public Prosecution Service that can be chosen from among persons that previously were not magistrates, the person chosen not even being mandatory linked to any area of recruitment or having a specific training. However, in practice, most of the persons appointed for the office of PGR came from the career magistracy.
Under the Procuradoria-Geral da Reública there are also four procuradorias-gerais distritais (district attorneys-general's offices) and 23 procuradorias da República (attorney's offices). The first ones represent the Public Prosecution Service in the courts of second instance and the last ones in the courts of first instance.
For the role of directing the criminal investigation, each of the Public Prosecution Service offices includes a department of investigation and prosecution, composed of attorneys specially dedicated to the investigation of the most serious crimes. For the criminal investigation, the Public Prosecution Service also controls the activity of the Judiciary Police.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My interpretation of this is the AG can control, by delegation, what the PJ investigate.
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Personally, I think it is way too funny to bother with.
My thoughts precisely but I was of the opinion that it was too crass to write funny and Maddie in the same sentence. It's sad really and adds little credibility to the sceptic cause. The entire notion that she died prior to the 3rd May 2007 is just insane imo.
I will also point out that the letter is so poorly constructed that someone with English as their second language will have difficulty understanding what is really being implied. This letter should have been made as simple as possible using words of single syllable instead of the endless waffling it did contain but frankly I don't know why they bothered because none of it adds up to anything of significance.
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http://www.ladbible.com/news/news-mccann-investigator-claims-to-know-where-and-how-she-died-20180317
Moita Flores also chipping in with his tuppence-worth.
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My thoughts precisely but I was of the opinion that it was too crass to write funny and Maddie in the same sentence. It's sad really and adds little credibility to the sceptic cause. The entire notion that she died prior to the 3rd May 2007 is just insane imo.
I will also point out that the letter is so poorly constructed that someone with English as their second language will have difficulty understanding what is really being implied.
I find it interesting because ...we are told there is a large sceptic following who disbelieve the mccanns...the CMMOM is the main sceptic forum...its show their beliefs and conclusions are based on a total misunderstanding of the evidence...imo...the majority of those who contributed to the amaral fund believe such absolute rubbish
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At least this consortium of odd bods have nailed their colours to the mast and put together a theory, even if it is one which can easily be picked apart, and held up to well deserved ridicule. In a way, it's a more honest approach than those who are content to stick at "the McCanns dunnit" without ever bothering to try and explain why, how, when, where, who etc.
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http://www.ladbible.com/news/news-mccann-investigator-claims-to-know-where-and-how-she-died-20180317
Moita Flores also chipping in with his tuppence-worth.
Not really surprising given he has a habit of regurgitating everything Amaral says anyway.
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My thoughts precisely but I was of the opinion that it was too crass to write funny and Maddie in the same sentence. It's sad really and adds little credibility to the sceptic cause. The entire notion that she died prior to the 3rd May 2007 is just insane imo.
I will also point out that the letter is so poorly constructed that someone with English as their second language will have difficulty understanding what is really being implied. This letter should have been made as simple as possible using words of single syllable instead of the endless waffling it did contain but frankly I don't know why they bothered because none of it adds up to anything of significance.
It did cross my mind that "Funny" might be a bit inappropriate. Perhaps "Hysterical" might have been better.
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At least this consortium of odd bods have nailed their colours to the mast and put together a theory, even if it is one which can easily be picked apart, and held up to well deserved ridicule. In a way, it's a more honest approach than those who are content to stick at "the McCanns dunnit" without ever bothering to try and explain why, how, when, where, who etc.
In my opinion producing a theory is a matter of choice, and says nothing about someone's honesty.
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In my opinion producing a theory is a matter of choice, and says nothing about someone's honesty.
perhaps credibility would be a better word
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Personally, I think it is way too funny to bother with.
I actually just LOL'ed at "no evidence of any wind" in the "Last Photo" one of the supposed proofs that it was not taken on the 3rd May.
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In my opinion producing a theory is a matter of choice, and says nothing about someone's honesty.
I disagree. I think if one is being honest and really seriously thinks about it and is not massively into convoluted conspiracy theories (as the author of this massive letter clearly is) then one would admit that it is pretty much impossible to put forward a credible theory as to how the McCanns might have faked an abduction and disposed of a corpse on the evening of the 3rd May, why they would have felt the need to do this in the first place, when did opportunity present itself and why they were able to carry it all out without leaving any compelling evidence at all. IMO.
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I actually just LOL'ed at "no evidence of any wind" in the "Last Photo" one of the supposed proofs that it was not taken on the 3rd May.
I'm amazed you managed to get that far.
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Not really surprising given he has a habit of regurgitating everything Amaral says anyway.
Yeah, well, one of them. Along with a few others, including Cristovão, Sargento, and Anjos.
How is Cristovão doing with his electronic bracelet, these days?
Sargento got into a spot of bother a few years ago, but it seems to have blown over.
http://www.cmjornal.pt/exclusivos/detalhe/violador-foi-filmado-a-porta-do-psicologo
Paiva seemingly got a sideways promotion to Outer Hebrides Funchal.
Almeida kept his head down and retired.
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Yeah, well, one of them. Along with a few others, including Cristovão, Sargento, and Anjos.
How is Cristovão doing with his electronic bracelet, these days?
Sargento got into a spot of bother a few years ago, but it seems to have blown over.
http://www.cmjornal.pt/exclusivos/detalhe/violador-foi-filmado-a-porta-do-psicologo
Paiva seemingly got a sideways promotion to Outer Hebrides Funchal.
Almeida kept his head down and retired.
Cristovao (+ bracelet) has just started working for Goldman Sachs. Apparently crime does pay handsomely.
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My thoughts precisely but I was of the opinion that it was too crass to write funny and Maddie in the same sentence. It's sad really and adds little credibility to the sceptic cause. The entire notion that she died prior to the 3rd May 2007 is just insane imo.
I will also point out that the letter is so poorly constructed that someone with English as their second language will have difficulty understanding what is really being implied. This letter should have been made as simple as possible using words of single syllable instead of the endless waffling it did contain but frankly I don't know why they bothered because none of it adds up to anything of significance.
Yes, it does seem a bit disrespectful to find anything funny about this little girl's disappearance. On the other hand, if someone had gone on an on about a theory of little green men in UFOs, at some point, I wouldn't blame anyone for eventually giggling at how silly it was. That's not being disrespectful towards the child, just the insistence of some about an oddball theory.
I don't see the point of this: "It's sad really and adds little credibility to the sceptic cause."
I really don't get the point of this partisanship thing.
No, having weighed up everything I've been able to find so far, I don't think the McCanns were involved in her diseappearance. Others do.
So what?
At the end of the day, it's about finding her, alive, or perhaps sadly not, and who was involved, whoever that may have been.
Or isn't it?
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Cristovao (+ bracelet) has just started working for Goldman Sachs. Apparently crime does pay handsomely.
Has he? I must have missed that.
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Has he? I must have missed that.
Check out Facebook - PPC public posts.
Looks like another controversy surrounding him is breaking, although I am unable to c&p this article into Google translate. http://www.jornaleconomico.sapo.pt/noticias/sociedade-de-recuperacao-de-dividas-pede-insolvencia-da-sad-do-sporting-282166
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Check out Facebook - PPC public posts.
Looks like another controversy surrounding him is breaking, although I am unable to c&p this article into Google translate. http://www.jornaleconomico.sapo.pt/noticias/sociedade-de-recuperacao-de-dividas-pede-insolvencia-da-sad-do-sporting-282166
Thanks, but I don't see where it says that he's been hired by GS.
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Thanks, but I don't see where it says that he's been hired by GS.
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Can anyone explain in simple terms their theory?
If Madeleine died early in the week who was being signed into creche all week, who went sailing , who went to high tea?
Surely it wasn't a corpse being carried around all week!
Even that made me laugh a little. Nannies reported Madeleine was a quite and shy girl. Well she would be quiet if she was at creche as a corpse sitting quietly in the corner, waiting to be picked up by her parents at lunch time. Taking her to high tea was a bit of a problem too as she was tired and had to be carried all the way.
Off her food too. She didn't eat much for 4 nights. But they still took her to the play area at night, and had fun with her.!
It seems a bit of a ridiculous theory but they are supposed to be a group of ex professionals so I have to give it serious consideration.
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They would also have to rubbish what Mrs Fenn was saying for if she was dead there was no way it could be Madeleine crying on Tuesday night.
Were the twins not talking? Surely they would have mentioned to someone that their sister no longer plays with them! Just sits behind the sofa saying nothing!
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Thanks, Misty. Is that the same one (so many have similar names), and is there any indication as to his position there?
Just wondering if it could be someone else by the same name, or whether it's some kind of joke.
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"In summary, none of the dozens of investigators in the case in England believe that DCI Redwood was telling the truth. We believe her statements were more of a lie by British police, to continue to claim that Madeleine was abducted, which did not happen."
DCI Redwood was a male wasn't he?
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rJEkNErpeVA/UzGtWJeEUkI/AAAAAAAABao/TB6axCyKQKc/s1600/Andy+Redwood+DCI.jpg)
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Can anyone explain in simple terms their theory?
If Madeleine died early in the week who was being signed into creche all week, who went sailing , who went to high tea?
Surely it wasn't a corpse being carried around all week!
Even that made me laugh a little. Nannies reported Madeleine was a quite and shy girl. Well she would be quiet if she was at creche as a corpse sitting quietly in the corner, waiting to be picked up by her parents at lunch time. Taking her to high tea was a bit of a problem too as she was tired and had to be carried all the way.
Off her food too. She didn't eat much for 4 nights. But they still took her to the play area at night, and had fun with her.!
It seems a bit of a ridiculous theory but they are supposed to be a group of ex professionals so I have to give it serious consideration.
Two things spring to my mind.
Albert RN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Os6X-jhtI
ace peformance by Jack Warner a.k.a George Dixon who in the last knockings of Dixon of Dock Green was a collator a sort of forerunner of HOLMES.
and:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOakMyALSDw
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Two things spring to my mind.
Albert RN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Os6X-jhtI
ace peformance by Jack Warner a.k.a George Dixon who in the last knockings of Dixon of Dock Green was a collator a sort of forerunner of HOLMES.
and:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOakMyALSDw
You got it, but there was one major difference the McCanns pulled it off.
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If only someone had asked the twins when they last played with Maddie!
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They would also have to rubbish what Mrs Fenn was saying for if she was dead there was no way it could be Madeleine crying on Tuesday night.
Were the twins not talking? Surely they would have mentioned to someone that their sister no longer plays with them! Just sits behind the sofa saying nothing!
Well instead of crying out for "Daddy", Amelie might have been crying out for "Maddie"? Could Mrs Fenn have heard it wrong?
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It says "Worked at Goldman Sachs" in the profile?
https://www.facebook.com/paulo.cristovaoppc.9
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You got it, but there was one major difference the McCanns pulled it off.
And there's me thinking it was "Curt Jurgens"* for them...... 8(>((
* It was actually Anton Diffring but that does not work.
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Well instead of crying out for "Daddy", Amelie might have been crying out for "Maddie"? Could Mrs Fenn have heard it wrong?
A distinct possibility Rob but that was the Tuesday night so not much direct relevance to the Thursday night?
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It says "Worked at Goldman Sachs" in the profile?
https://www.facebook.com/paulo.cristovaoppc.9
The account, which I believe is genuine, is on the friends list of Sophia Leal, Amaral's ex-wife.
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Two things spring to my mind.
Albert RN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Os6X-jhtI
ace peformance by Jack Warner a.k.a George Dixon who in the last knockings of Dixon of Dock Green was a collator a sort of forerunner of HOLMES.
and:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOakMyALSDw
@)(++(*
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A distinct possibility Rob but that was the Tuesday night so not much direct relevance to the Thursday night?
Under that new theory there was no Thursday night Madeleine had died on Monday so the twins could be crying for her on the Tuesday night.
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I disagree. I think if one is being honest and really seriously thinks about it and is not massively into convoluted conspiracy theories (as the author of this massive letter clearly is) then one would admit that it is pretty much impossible to put forward a credible theory as to how the McCanns might have faked an abduction and disposed of a corpse on the evening of the 3rd May, why they would have felt the need to do this in the first place, when did opportunity present itself and why they were able to carry it all out without leaving any compelling evidence at all. IMO.
Just as it's proved impossible to put forward a credible theory of abduction in my opinion. Some of those proposed are pretty convoluted too, and some are pure fantasy.
My honest opinion is that there are very many questions and very few answers which don't rely on opinion rather than evidence. .
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Just as it's proved impossible to put forward a credible theory of abduction in my opinion. Some of those proposed are pretty convoluted too, and some are pure fantasy.
My honest opinion is that there are very many questions and very few answers which don't rely on opinion rather than evidence. .
Fortunately, Opinion won't do In Law. There remains nothing to point to the involvement of The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter.
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If only someone had asked the twins when they last played with Maddie!
Madeleine was there all week Rob, people saw her. The Nanny spoke to Gerry and Kate, Madeleine was practising for a dance that was supposed to be a surprise for the parents on the Friday. Please don't start the nonsense of Madeleine not being there all week, for that is what it is nonsense. IMO
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Fortunately, Opinion won't do In Law. There remains nothing to point to the involvement of The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter.
The stranger abduction theory is a matter of opinion.
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Fortunately, Opinion won't do In Law. There remains nothing to point to the involvement of The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter.
Unless you are part of the investigation team and know this for certain a massive imo should be added to that.
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The stranger abduction theory is a matter of opinion.
But the most likely one.
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But the most likely one.
I’m sure you can show your calculations and evidence?
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Just as it's proved impossible to put forward a credible theory of abduction in my opinion. Some of those proposed are pretty convoluted too, and some are pure fantasy.
My honest opinion is that there are very many questions and very few answers which don't rely on opinion rather than evidence. .
Once again, I disagree. The Met already identified a window of opportunity for an abductor to strike. An abduction could take less than 2 minutes to action from start to finish. Entering an unlocked apartment and removing a child in that time frame is eminently possible and the most uncomplicated expalanation by far. IMO.
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Once again, I disagree. The Met already identified a window of opportunity for an abductor to strike. An abduction could take less than 2 minutes to action from start to finish. Entering an unlocked apartment and removing a child in that time frame is eminently possible and the most uncomplicated expalanation by far. IMO.
You forgot a bit.
Here...
Entering an unlocked apartment, opening the window & shutters, and removing a child in that time frame is eminently possible and the most uncomplicated explanation by far. IMO
Thanks.
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Between 8.30 & 10pm on 3rd May 2007, for how many minutes were Kate, Gerry & Matt NOT inside 5A?
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I’m sure you can show your calculations and evidence?
Don't be silly. I don't have to.
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I’m sure you can show your calculations and evidence?
Parents are not suspects according to both investigations... When they we're made arguidos all the evidence against them had to be disclosed and according to the archiving report none of the evidence was consolidated... No evidence appears to have cone to light since and they have not been re interviewed as suspects... Woke and wandered deemed highly unlikely by the pj final report..
That leaves abduction as the most likely solution
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Don't be silly. I don't have to.
We are looking to you to set an example.
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Parents are not suspects according to both investigations... When they we're made arguidos all the evidence against them had to be disclosed and according to the archiving report none of the evidence was consolidated... No evidence appears to have cone to light since and they have not been re interviewed as suspects... Woke and wandered deemed highly unlikely by the pj final report..
That leaves abduction as the most likely solution
Good audition for the final report from SY.
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We are looking to you to set an example.
Why badger Eleanor when a perfectly good explanation has, already been privided
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Parents are not suspects according to both investigations... When they we're made arguidos all the evidence against them had to be disclosed and according to the archiving report none of the evidence was consolidated... No evidence appears to have cone to light since and they have not been re interviewed as suspects... Woke and wandered deemed highly unlikely by the pj final report..
That leaves abduction as the most likely solution
Remember the words "However she left the apartment she was abducted".
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Parents are not suspects according to both investigations... When they we're made arguidos all the evidence against them had to be disclosed and according to the archiving report none of the evidence was consolidated... No evidence appears to have cone to light since and they have not been re interviewed as suspects... Woke and wandered deemed highly unlikely by the pj final report..
That leaves abduction as the most likely solution
This leaves me thinking, what evidence came to light against the likes of Murat & Malinka?
They have been re interviewed.
Maybe it was the fact that they owned mobile phones & were in PDL on May 3rd.
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Parents are not suspects according to both investigations... When they we're made arguidos all the evidence against them had to be disclosed and according to the archiving report none of the evidence was consolidated... No evidence appears to have cone to light since and they have not been re interviewed as suspects... Woke and wandered deemed highly unlikely by the pj final report..
That leaves abduction as the most likely solution
Like it or not, the woke and wandered explanation is the ONLY one which fits with the actual evidence.
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Like it or not, the woke and wandered is the ONLY theory which fits with the actual evidence.
no it isnt and remember you may not have all the evidence.......it would be interesting to no on what evidence the pj all but ruled out woke and wandered...good to see you dont think the evidence supports parental involvemnt
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This leaves me thinking, what evidence came to light against the likes of Murat & Malinka?
They have been re interviewed.
Maybe it was the fact that they owned mobile phones & were in PDL on May 3rd.
Now that's some coincidence.
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Like it or not, the woke and wandered explanation is the ONLY one which fits with the actual evidence.
NO it isnt...and as you dont have all the evidence its an illogical statement...It would be interesting to know why the PJ all but ruled out woke and wandered and what evidence that statement is based on
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Just as an aside or rather on topic its obvious why the latest theory was posted to the PJ,SY aren't the slightest bit interested.
Rowley:Of course we always want information and we can't rule out making new appeals if that is required. However, right now, new appeals or prompts to the public are not in the interest of what we are trying to achieve.
http://news.met.police.uk/blog_posts/ac-mark-rowley-reflects-on-the-tenth-anniversary-of-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-56775#related
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NO it isnt...and as you dont have all the evidence its an illogical statement...It would be interesting to know why the PJ all but ruled out woke and wandered and what evidence that statement is based on
SY all but ruled Tannerman out,some like to cling on though.
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https://www.publico.pt/2013/10/24/sociedade/noticia/ministerio-publico-reabre-processo-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-1610207
The reanalysis of the case returns to focus the investigation on the kidnapping thesis, the main line followed by Scotland Yard, who also opened an investigation into the disappearance of Maddie. The PJ do Porto team was convinced of this thesis in view of the careful observation of all the information in the process.
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We are looking to you to set an example.
Precisely. No one on this Forum is forced to explain their opinions. Least of all me.
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You forgot a bit.
Here...
Entering an unlocked apartment, opening the window & shutters, and removing a child in that time frame is eminently possible and the most uncomplicated explanation by far. IMO
Thanks.
Exactly, thanks for pointing that out. But I thought you didn't want to interact with me?
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Between 8.30 & 10pm on 3rd May 2007, for how many minutes were Kate, Gerry & Matt NOT inside 5A?
Probably too many if the abduction theory is to be believed.
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Like it or not, the woke and wandered explanation is the ONLY one which fits with the actual evidence.
And yet it was the first theory to be abandoned by the police as the least likely, why do you suppose?
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And yet it was the first theory to be abandoned by the police as the least likely, why do you suppose?
The "probable" ones have led no where.
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The "probable" ones have led no where.
I don't think that because the probable theories have led nowhere that that means the improbable theories are now worthy of consideration. IMO.
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Did it ever occur to this so-called research group that there were hundreds (if not thousands) of people in and around PdL on the 3rd May who are far better placed to describe what the weather was like on that day than they are, and that so far as I know, not one of the people who was actually there that day has questioned the veracity of the so-called "Last Photo" based on the fact that it shows a sunny moment, and kids in sun hats?
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no it isnt and remember you may not have all the evidence.......it would be interesting to no on what evidence the pj all but ruled out woke and wandered...good to see you dont think the evidence supports parental involvemnt
So you admit that we may not have all the evidence?
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Did it ever occur to this so-called research group that there were hundreds (if not thousands) of people in and around PdL on the 3rd May who are far better placed to describe what the weather was like on that day than they are, and that so far as I know, not one of the people who was actually there that day has questioned the veracity of the so-called "Last Photo" based on the fact that it shows a sunny moment, and kids in sun hats?
Jane Tanner
10.30 4078 “What was the weather like at that time when you remember seeing Madeleine on the
beach then?”
Reply “Erm, I think that day was a bit nicer actually. I think, I’m trying to, I’ve got pictures
of Exxxx, of Exx, that’s about the first day I took pictures actually, and I’ve got
pictures of Exx and I’m trying to remember what she was wearing. It was a tee-shirt,
so I don’t think it was, it wasn’t as, I think it was actually getting a bit nicer, it wasn’t
as cold. No, yeah, because the Thursday was actually probably one of the first nice
days, which is why I think we had gone later in the day, we took all the kids down to
the beach because it was actually nicer weather. So, yeah, the Thursday was
probably the first day I think the sun had more come out in the day”.
4078 “When you were there with Exx and you had seen Madeleine and Exxxx sort of getting
ready to go back to the Kids Club, were there many other people around?”
.................................
This was the night when we were
all saying that, so, no, there was nothing. And we’d had a really, I think in some
ways it had been the nicest day because the weather had been nicer, we’d all had the
chance, you know, we’d taken the kids to the beach, we were all saying, you know, it
was probably, it’s ironic, but it had been the best day of the holiday so far because,
you know, we’d been able to do something with the kids and blah blah,
J. Wilkins
On Thursday, 3rd May 2007, at 10 am I went to tennis lesson as usual and Jerry was there and a female. The other two females were not present. We again engaged in general conversation and played (?!) the lesson for an hour.
I went to the pool where Bridget was. I think Jerry’s wife, Kate was already there speaking to the tennis coach. They got really involved in a conversation XXX Jerry would say a joke (?!!!!, unreadible) and go ...
O'Brien
E*** went back to the kids club and I went out with Matt sailing, I Jane was looking after E***. Whilst I was out sailing with Matt he fell in the water, I had to sail back to save him this made the day quite memorable that and it being the best day weather wise.
Rachael
1578 “Okay. So we move on then, we move forward to Thursday”.
Reply “Mmm mmm”.
1578 “The third of May, are you able to summarise the days activities”?
Reply “Yeah, the day was actually, it was different to the others because, well it was warmer weather
carole Tranmer
CT'If it was in the afternoon, somewhere three, three-thirty and five-thirty, because the sun was going down and it was getting colder.
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Did it ever occur to this so-called research group that there were hundreds (if not thousands) of people in and around PdL on the 3rd May who are far better placed to describe what the weather was like on that day than they are, and that so far as I know, not one of the people who was actually there that day has questioned the veracity of the so-called "Last Photo" based on the fact that it shows a sunny moment, and kids in sun hats?
Exactly. It is almost impossible to say precisely when the sun came out, and for how long. But this is by the by.
The first opinions of The Last Photo began ten years ago, by some idiot who happened to be in Brazil at the time. We had acres of Photo Shopping at a time when I still believed that The McCanns could have been culpable.
Been there and done all of this. 1,29pm or 2.29pm? Until someone sussed that Portugal is on UK time. Or did Kate forget to update her camera?
No one has ever effectively proved that The Last Photo wasn't exactly what it was purported to be.
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Parents are not suspects according to both investigations... When they we're made arguidos all the evidence against them had to be disclosed and according to the archiving report none of the evidence was consolidated... No evidence appears to have cone to light since and they have not been re interviewed as suspects... Woke and wandered deemed highly unlikely by the pj final report..
That leaves abduction as the most likely solution
Similarly there appears to be no evidence of abduction which logically therefore would leave some other event as the likely solution...
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Similarly there appears to be no evidence of abduction which logically therefore would leave some other event as the likely solution...
First... You are, using the absence of evidence as an argument... Which is quite valid but something you have consistently argued against.
Second... What other option are you referring to... I only see
Parental involvement
Woke and wandered
Abduction
If two are, unlikely... Then then the third must be likely
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no it isnt and remember you may not have all the evidence.......it would be interesting to no on what evidence the pj all but ruled out woke and wandered...good to see you dont think the evidence supports parental involvemnt
They have never ruled it out and neither have SY, all options are still open was the last thing we have heard from them I understand. I repeat for the benefit of those with cloth ears, woke and wandered is the only possibility which is supported by real evidence while abduction through a bedroom window is unsupported by anything.
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They have never ruled it out and neither have SY, all options are still open was the last thing we have heard from them I understand.
Last thing we heard was that the, parents are not suspects and that they believed maddie was abducted
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SY all but ruled Tannerman out,some like to cling on though.
It seems so yet SY have almost certainly ruled him out.
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Between 8.30 & 10pm on 3rd May 2007, for how many minutes were Kate, Gerry & Matt NOT inside 5A?
All very convenient don't ya think when two nights previously nobody went near the distraught children for well over an hour leading to several people in the vicinity being sufficiently concerned to look into what was going to on.
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And yet it was the first theory to be abandoned by the police as the least likely, why do you suppose?
It was the very first to be investigated but fell by the wayside after Tanner's claimed sighting of an abductor. A sighting which SY have now all but dismissed. If woke and wandered is eventually proven, the spotlight will once again be turned on the parents and their culpability in all of this.
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So you admit that we may not have all the evidence?
Anyone who doesn't is a fool imo.
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It was the very first to be investigated but fell by the wayside after Tanner's claimed sighting of an abductor. A sighting which SY have now all but dismissed. If woke and wandered is eventually proven, the spotlight will once again be turned on the parents and their culpability in all of this.
How do you imagine "woke and wandered" could ever be proven? Do you believe that Madeleine's death was as the result of an unfortunate accident as in the case of Ben Needham?
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How do you imagine "woke and wandered" could ever be proven? Do you believe that Madeleine's death was as the result of an unfortunate accident as in the case of Ben Needham?
Ben Needham's fate has never been proven. The run over by a digger claim is nothing but a theory.
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Ben Needham's fate has never been proven. The run over by a digger claim is nothing but a theory.
How a “4” year old could possibly disappear from an unlocked apartment is a complete mystery.
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So you admit that we may not have all the evidence?
In my opinion it is certain sure that Joe Public is aware of only one iota of the intelligence and evidence which is in the hands of Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria.
Anyway, it is heartening to see that the research group agree in principal to further financing for continued investigation of Madeleine's case; but why write to the Portuguese Attorney General about it, why not get up a campaign to do that over here?
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How a “4” year old could possibly disappear from an unlocked apartment is a complete mystery.
With a very simple and plausible theory - that she was taken by an intruder, during a short window of opportunity.
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Anyone who doesn't is a fool imo.
Do you know that once upon a time you were a very reasonable man. I don't understand what has come over you.
Delete, as appropriate.
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In my opinion it is certain sure that Joe Public is aware of only one iota of the intelligence and evidence which is in the hands of Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria.
Anyway, it is heartening to see that the research group agree in principal to further financing for continued investigation of Madeleine's case; but why write to the Portuguese Attorney General about it, why not get up a campaign to do that over here?
Can’t argue with any of that Brietta.
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Can’t argue with any of that Brietta.
Brietta remains, as ever, a reasonable person.
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In my opinion it is certain sure that Joe Public is aware of only one iota of the intelligence and evidence which is in the hands of Scotland Yard and the Policia Judiciaria.
Anyway, it is heartening to see that the research group agree in principal to further financing for continued investigation of Madeleine's case; but why write to the Portuguese Attorney General about it, why not get up a campaign to do that over here?
I think the public is aware of a lot more than an iota.
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So you admit that we may not have all the evidence?
We know all the evidence the original investigation had against the mccanns because the pj had to disclose it on making them arguidos... We also know that the archiving report said all the evidence against them was not consolidated....
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I think the public is aware of a lot more than an iota.
In your opinion, hopefully.
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We know all the evidence the original investigation had against the mccanns because the pj had to disclose it on making them arguidos... We also know that the archiving report said all the evidence against them was not consolidated....
We do not know what OG has uncovered since then. We only know what they have told us and certainly nothing that would prejudice any future trial.
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Do you know that once upon a time you were a very reasonable man. I don't understand what has come over you.
Delete, as appropriate.
It is very simple, it is logical that there is more evidence to find in the Maddie case regardless of whether she is alive or dead. If you disagree maybe you will elaborate please Eleanor.
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We know all the evidence the original investigation had against the mccanns because the pj had to disclose it on making them arguidos... We also know that the archiving report said all the evidence against them was not consolidated....
You have fallen into your own trap davel. They have to provide proof, evidence is something else and undoubtedly the PJ have material which they are not prepared to share for operational reasons. Those PJ officers including Amaral and Paiva who were involved from day one will always have a greater insight into what occurred that those who came after including SY.
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You have fallen into your own trap davel. They have to provide proof, evidence is something else and undoubtedly the PJ have material which they are not prepared to share for operational reasons. Those PJ officers including Amaral and Paiva who were involved from day one will always have a greater insight into what occurred that those who came after including SY.
No they had to provide the evidence... Proof is only decided in court... So all the evidence amaral had has been disclosed... As amaral didn't understand the evidence his insight is not worth a, fat lot
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It is very simple, it is logical that there is more evidence to find in the Maddie case regardless of whether she is alive or dead. If you disagree maybe you will elaborate please Eleanor.
No, I will not do that, Angelo. And nor should you. We both have opinions, although I have never gainsaid you.
Perhaps you should afford me the same courtesy.
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And yet it was the first theory to be abandoned by the police as the least likely, why do you suppose?
Was it? oh right .. now you can cite that one for me. Thanks in advance
I thought it was the 'abduction' the police abandoned due to the tapas stories and discovering absolutely no evidence of anyone coming entering or leaving via jemmied shutters and window.. but there ya go.
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Was it? oh right .. now you can cite that one for me. Thanks in advance
I thought it was the 'abduction' the police abandoned due to the tapas stories and discovering absolutely no evidence of anyone coming entering or leaving via jemmied shutters and window.. but there ya go.
It's in the final report... Woke and wandered highly unlikely
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Did it ever occur to this so-called research group that there were hundreds (if not thousands) of people in and around PdL on the 3rd May who are far better placed to describe what the weather was like on that day than they are, and that so far as I know, not one of the people who was actually there that day has questioned the veracity of the so-called "Last Photo" based on the fact that it shows a sunny moment, and kids in sun hats?
Well, never mind the tens of thousands who were watching the weather in PDL the parent swere confused.
Kate left Maddie tucked up inside the covers as it was a cold night
Gerry saw Maddie on his toilet visit lying on the top of the bed outside the covers where HE left her as it was a warm night..
Hot n cold took on a new meaning... One expects one to do the hokey cockey and turn around tadah!
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No they had to provide the evidence... Proof is only decided in court... So all the evidence amaral had has been disclosed... As amaral didn't understand the evidence his insight is not worth a, fat lot
Wrong again. Guilt or innocence is decided in court, not proof. Proof based on some of the evidence is provided by investigators.
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No, I will not do that, Angelo. And nor should you. We both have opinions, although I have never gainsaid you.
Perhaps you should afford me the same courtesy.
That applies to other members too so shooting them down in flames just because they ask valid questions is unacceptable.
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what happened to my post ? the PJ belived the McCanns staged an abduction.... so what about that being the truth. we not allowed that again.
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Was it? oh right .. now you can cite that one for me. Thanks in advance
I thought it was the 'abduction' the police abandoned due to the tapas stories and discovering absolutely no evidence of anyone coming entering or leaving via jemmied shutters and window.. but there ya go.
I agree, the focus changed from looking for a little girl who got out of an unlocked apartment to chasing a ghost only after Tanner belatedely decided to add her tuppence worth.
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Once again, I disagree. The Met already identified a window of opportunity for an abductor to strike. An abduction could take less than 2 minutes to action from start to finish. Entering an unlocked apartment and removing a child in that time frame is eminently possible and the most uncomplicated expalanation by far. IMO.
Which window was this then? 2 mins lolololol
where did the abuctor throw that jemmie then? in the non bushes?
(&^& (&^& (&^& (&^&
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That applies to other members too so shooting them down in flames just because they ask valid questions shouldn't happen.
This is between thee and me. And nothing to do with other members. I never question what you do. Or have you failed to notice?
So don't ask me questions On Forum that I cannot answer, and I would never ask of you.
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I agree, the focus changed from looking for a little girl who got out of an unlocked apartment to chasing a ghost only after Tanner belatedely decided to add her tuppence worth.
Yes that was a bit of a thing was it not. Is this woman totally for real? Her friend screams her child is missing JT stands by watching them all search THEN later decides to mention an abductor leaving the scene with Maddie.
What sort of people are they at all?
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It's in the final report... Woke and wandered highly unlikely
Clearly they got that one completely wrong. The retired senior British detectives who reviewed the case in detail concluded that the woke and wandered theory was extremely credible.
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Yes that was a bit of a thing was it not. Is this woman totally for real? Her friend screams her child is missing JT stands by watching them all search THEN later decides to mention an abductor leaving the scene with Maddie.
What sort of people are they at all?
Could be that Tanner saw crecheman walking about with a child in his arms much later than the 9.15 claimed.
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Well, never mind the tens of thousands who were watching the weather in PDL the parent swere confused.
Kate left Maddie tucked up inside the covers as it was a cold night
Gerry saw Maddie on his toilet visit lying on the top of the bed outside the covers where HE left her as it was a warm night..
Hot n cold took on a new meaning... One expects one to do the hokey cockey and turn around tadah!
Could we keep to the topic which is the theory that the Last Photograph couldn't have been taken on the 3rd according to this latest "research" because allegedly the sun never came out and therefore no one would have been by the pool or wearing sunhats?
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Clearly they got that one completely wrong. The retired senior British detectives who reviewed the case in detail concluded that the woke and wandered theory was extremely credible.
They didn't have all the information the investigation had....so it's,simply your belief they got it wrong....nothing more.
Colin Sutton never reviewed the case in detail.. He, said he, would.. But he didnt
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Could we keep to the topic which is the theory that the Last Photograph couldn't have been taken on the 3rd according to this latest "research" because allegedly the sun never came out and therefore no one would have been by the pool or wearing sunhats?
Who took the photo? Was it Kate? Does she ever admit to doing that? Did she have her camera with her on that day?
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Could we keep to the topic which is the theory that the Last Photograph couldn't have been taken on the 3rd according to this latest "research" because allegedly the sun never came out and therefore no one would have been by the pool or wearing sunhats?
I would not agree with you that the topic is just restricted to the so called last photo.
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I would not agree with you that the topic is just restricted to the so called last photo.
No but it is a central plank of the so-called evidence presented by these so-called researchers
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In your opinion, hopefully.
No, on the balance of probability.
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Could we keep to the topic which is the theory that the Last Photograph couldn't have been taken on the 3rd according to this latest "research" because allegedly the sun never came out and therefore no one would have been by the pool or wearing sunhats?
Please avoid trying to moderate, the topic is the latest theory which includes many things including the weather.
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No, on the balance of probability.
What does that mean?
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/B/BalanceofProbabilities.aspx
"Balance of Probabilities Definition:
Burden of proof in civil trials.
Related Terms: Reasonable Doubt, Burden of Proof, Trial
Also known as preponderance of evidence.
The common distinction is made with the burden of truth in a criminal trial, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil trial, one party's case need only be more probable than the other.
The corollary of this is the rare occurrence when the evidence is evenly balanced. In that case, victory goes to the defendant as the burden of proof is with the plaintiff, who initiates legal proceedings.
The threshold a party's evidence must attain in order for that party to be successful at trial.
A court of law commences a trial with no knowledge; hence the blindfold on the iconic statue of Lady Justice.
Lady Justice also has a set of scales in her hands, as in the scales of justice.
Each party presents the evidence to the court and slowly the scales begin to tip. At the end of the trial, the winner is the party which has tipped the scale.
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What does that mean?
http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/B/BalanceofProbabilities.aspx
"Balance of Probabilities Definition:
Burden of proof in civil trials.
Related Terms: Reasonable Doubt, Burden of Proof, Trial
Also known as preponderance of evidence.
The common distinction is made with the burden of truth in a criminal trial, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. In a civil trial, one party's case need only be more probable than the other.
The corollary of this is the rare occurrence when the evidence is evenly balanced. In that case, victory goes to the defendant as the burden of proof is with the plaintiff, who initiates legal proceedings.
The threshold a party's evidence must attain in order for that party to be successful at trial.
A court of law commences a trial with no knowledge; hence the blindfold on the iconic statue of Lady Justice.
Lady Justice also has a set of scales in her hands, as in the scales of justice.
Each party presents the evidence to the court and slowly the scales begin to tip. At the end of the trial, the winner is the party which has tipped the scale.
ive used the term quite a lot...abduction can be proved...on the balance of probabilities...mean only 51%. Psters continually talk about proof without defining what level of proof they are referring to
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ive used the term quite a lot...abduction can be proved...on the balance of probabilities...mean only 51%. Psters continually talk about proof without defining what level of proof they are referring to
I wonder how one calculates that. Is it a calculation or just an argument?
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I wonder how one calculates that. Is it a calculation or just an argument?
Exactly the same as it's done in a court of law....
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I wonder how one calculates that. Is it a calculation or just an argument?
In Davel’s case I would say it was an argument as he has never produced any calculations.
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In Davel’s case I would say it was an argument as he has never produced any calculations.
As I have, said... Exactly as it's, done in a court of law..
Im happy to talk figures....3 possibilities
first theparents...highly unlikely based on the evidence...but lets be generous...15%
wokae and wandered...highly unlikely base on the final report...but lets be generous...25%
That leaves abduction at 60 % proved on the balance of probabilities
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Exactly the same as it's done in a court of law....
So it is not mathematical, but a judge's considered opinion, whether the scale tilts to one side or the other. So I'd say the decision is influenced by the ability of those presenting the case. Where as with maths there would be one answer regardless.
Looking back I'm not sure why the comment "No, on the balance of probability." was made.
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So it is not mathematical, but a judge's considered opinion, whether the scale tilts to one side or the other. So I'd say the decision is influenced by the ability of those presenting the case. Where as with maths there would be one answer regardless.
Looking back I'm not sure why the comment "No, on the balance of probability." was made.
It's, far more influenced by the evidencd
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As I have, said... Exactly as it's, done in a court of law..
Im happy to talk figures....3 possibilities
first theparents...highly unlikely based on the evidence...but lets be generous...15%
wokae and wandered...highly unlikely base on the final report...but lets be generous...25%
That leaves abduction at 60 % proved on the balance of probabilities
You have just made up some figures.
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You have just made up some figures.
In your opinion
I've give estimates based on the evidence... You give your estimates...
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In your opinion
I've give estimates based on the evidence... You give your estimates...
Everyone could just choose figures that suit their case.
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Everyone could just choose figures that suit their case.
I've based my figures on evidence
So which one do you not agree with... Do you see parental involvement higher than 15
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You have just made up some figures.
Balance of probablities applies only to civil proceedings. He with evidence > 50% wins.
Criminal cases are decided on beyond reasonable doubt requiring > 83% to "win".
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Balance of probablities applies only to civil proceedings. He with evidence > 50% wins.
Criminal cases are decided on beyond reasonable doubt requiring > 83% to "win".
I've never claimed any different... I'm highlighting the meaning of the word.. Proof... Which is, an oft used but not defined word
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I've based my figures on evidence
So which one do you not agree with... Do you see parental involvement higher than 15
That is the thing I would dispute the so called evidence you list.
Based on the studies about who abducts kids, I have not seen enough evidence to eliminate the parents and those known to the parents as yet. They turned Yvonne Martin away who was there to help. Others have found the group appear to be hiding something. So that whole group still in the picture. OK that is not just the family but those known to the family. So I'm not saying Kate and Gerry did it, but someone they know.
And the fact that the PJ said "Woke and wandered is unlikely" - that was just another opinion without facts to back it up IMO.
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Balance of probablities applies only to civil proceedings. He with evidence > 50% wins.
Criminal cases are decided on beyond reasonable doubt requiring > 83% to "win".
You have given me food for thought...
If it went to court now.... Based on the evidence... The mccanns, would be found not guilty..
So based on that, we, can put their involvement at Max 17 %...so my 15% was, pretty good
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That is the thing I would dispute the so called evidence you list.
Based on the studies about who abducts kids, I have not seen enough evidence to eliminate the parents and those known to the parents as yet. They turned Yvonne Martin away who was there to help. Others have found the group appear to be hiding something. So that whole group still in the picture. OK that is not just the family but those known to the family. So I'm not saying Kate and Gerry did it, but someone they know.
And the fact that the PJ said "Woke and wandered is unlikely" - that was just another opinion without facts to back it up IMO.
The, studies, are not evidence and cannot be used as, evidence... You are, way of the mark with your understanding there.. Imo
I don't think the pj would make such a, definite statement without some evidence... So it's, expert opinion
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Balance of probablities applies only to civil proceedings. He with evidence > 50% wins.
Criminal cases are decided on beyond reasonable doubt requiring > 83% to "win".
How did you calculate the 83%
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The, studies, are not evidence and cannot be used as, evidence... You are, way of the mark with your understanding there.. Imo
I don't think the pj would make such a, definite statement without some evidence... So it's, expert opinion
The definition of expert in these cases was such that the experts had to be not involved in the case. The PJ being the investigators can't be the ones giving the expert opinion.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Expert+witnesses
"expert witness
n. a person who is a specialist in a subject, often technical, who may present his/her expert opinion without having been a witness to any occurrence relating to the lawsuit or criminal case. It is an exception to the rule against giving an opinion in trial, provided that the expert is qualified by evidence of his/her expertise, training and special knowledge. If the expertise is challenged, the attorney for the party calling the "expert" must make a showing of the necessary background through questions in court, and the trial judge has discretion to qualify the witness or rule he/she is not an expert, or is an expert on limited subjects. Experts are usually paid handsomely for their services and may be asked by the opposition the amount they are receiving for their work on the case. In most jurisdictions, both sides must exchange the names and addresses of proposed experts to allow pre-trial depositions."
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The definition of expert in these cases was such that the experts had to be not involved in the case. The PJ being the investigators can't be the ones giving the expert opinion.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Expert+witnesses
"expert witness
n. a person who is a specialist in a subject, often technical, who may present his/her expert opinion without having been a witness to any occurrence relating to the lawsuit or criminal case. It is an exception to the rule against giving an opinion in trial, provided that the expert is qualified by evidence of his/her expertise, training and special knowledge. If the expertise is challenged, the attorney for the party calling the "expert" must make a showing of the necessary background through questions in court, and the trial judge has discretion to qualify the witness or rule he/she is not an expert, or is an expert on limited subjects. Experts are usually paid handsomely for their services and may be asked by the opposition the amount they are receiving for their work on the case. In most jurisdictions, both sides must exchange the names and addresses of proposed experts to allow pre-trial depositions."
It speaks of being a witness in the case... So looks, you are wrong on that one too
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I've never claimed any different... I'm highlighting the meaning of the word.. Proof... Which is, an oft used but not defined word
If you knew anything about law you would know definitions are a moveable feast.
That's why pretty well every law and standard form of contract has a section entitled "Definitions".
Which proof would you like to discuss?
Proof of fact
Proof of theory
Proof of concept
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If you knew anything about law you would know definitions are a moveable feast.
That's why pretty well every law and standard form of contract has a section entitled "Definitions".
Which proof would you like to discuss?
Proof of fact
Proof of theory
Proof of concept
You have missed, the, point... I'm talking about the meaning of the, word proof
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It speaks of being a witness in the case... So looks, you are wrong on that one too
So you say but I don't believe you.
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You have missed, the, point... I'm talking about the meaning of the, word proof
So am I. In the English language it can be a noun an adjective or a verb, having that many variations of meaning it may help were you a little more specific.
Edit: Deleted off topic posting.
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So am I. In the English language it can be a noun an adjective or a verb, having that many variations of meaning it may help were you a little more specific.
YAWN
Oh dear, please pardon me, but what has this to do with the sort of proof Davel was talking about?
In my opinion, unnecessary, and way off topic Alice.
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As I have, said... Exactly as it's, done in a court of law..
Im happy to talk figures....3 possibilities
first theparents...highly unlikely based on the evidence...but lets be generous...15%
wokae and wandered...highly unlikely base on the final report...but lets be generous...25%
That leaves abduction at 60 % proved on the balance of probabilities
Those percentages are all 'in your opinion' so not definitive in my opinion.
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Those percentages are all 'in your opinion' so not definitive in my opinion.
My opinion based on the evidence... A guilty. Not guilty verdict in court... Is an opinion based on the evidence..
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My opinion based on the evidence... A guilty. Not guilty verdict in court... Is an opinion based on the evidence..
No, based on your opinion of the evidence. Looking at the same evidence the PJ and the prosecutor couldn't even identify the crime. You think you can, but it's just opinion imo.
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No, based on your opinion of the evidence. Looking at the same evidence the PJ and the prosecutor couldn't even identify the crime. You think you can, but it's just opinion imo.
My opinion based on the evidence... I haven't identified the crime so you are 100% wrong on that one... I've given three options
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So you say but I don't believe you.
I and don't accept much of what you say
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I and don't accept much of what you say
Fair enough we know where we stand.
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Fair enough we know where we stand.
You have referred to me as confused..I would say you are very confused... Particularly on the significance of the statistics
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You have given me food for thought...
If it went to court now.... Based on the evidence... The mccanns, would be found not guilty..
So based on that, we, can put their involvement at Max 17 %...so my 15% was, pretty good
You seem to have got it back to front. Based on Alice’s 83%, if they were found not guilty it would put their involvement at 82.999% or less. Then again you appear to be getting probability of involvement mixed up with level of involvement.
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You seem to have got it back to front. Based on Alice’s 83%, if they were found not guilty it would put their involvement at 82.999% or less. Then again you appear to be getting probability of involvement mixed up with level of involvement.
ive got nothing back to front...not guilty would signify a 17 % probabilty that they were involved with maddies disappearnace and an 83% probablity that they were not involved...which makes my initial estimte of 15% a pretty good estimate which contradicts your claim I wa simply aking figures up
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so we have a real situation...not made up...that based on the evidence we are aware of...a figure of 15% is a realistic estmate....based on logic
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so we have a real situation...not made up...that based on the evidence we are aware of...a figure of 15% is a realistic estmate....based on logic
Why 15%?
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ive got nothing back to front...not guilty would signify a 17 % probabilty that they were involved with maddies disappearnace and an 83% probablity that they were not involved...which makes my initial estimte of 15% a pretty good estimate which contradicts your claim I wa simply aking figures up
You are talking about the chances of them getting away with it if guilty or wrongly convicted not the weight of proof required to convict.
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You are talking about the chances of them getting away with it if guilty or wrongly convicted not the weight of proof required to convict.
now I thin you are getting mixed up...Im not talking about them getting away with anything....that is presumption they are guilty
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now I thin you are getting mixed up...Im not talking about them getting away with anything....that is presumption they are guilty
That is the way you are presenting the statistics, not me.
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Yes that was a bit of a thing was it not. Is this woman totally for real? Her friend screams her child is missing JT stands by watching them all search THEN later decides to mention an abductor leaving the scene with Maddie.
What sort of people are they at all?
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Jane was in her apartment when Kate found Madeleine missing, she was informed later.
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Was it? oh right .. now you can cite that one for me. Thanks in advance
I thought it was the 'abduction' the police abandoned due to the tapas stories and discovering absolutely no evidence of anyone coming entering or leaving via jemmied shutters and window.. but there ya go.
Maybe they should have thought about another entry then?
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Which window was this then? 2 mins lolololol
where did the abuctor throw that jemmie then? in the non bushes?
(&^& (&^& (&^& (&^&
What jemmie? Are you getting confused?
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Jane was in her apartment when Kate found Madeleine missing, she was informed later.
How much later?
When she was in the apartment, at about 22.00- 22.15 she heard Kate and Fiona shouting and saying that Madeleine had disappeared.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm
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How much later?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER.htm
You can see how much later. It was Fiona Jane told about seeing the man as soon as they had told her about Madeleine going missing. We must remember that Jane even though she was scared that she may have seen Madeleine being taken, she wasn't SURE it was Madeleine, so she was hardly likely to go blurting out to Kate that she had seen someone taking Madeleine away was she? IMO
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For the benefit of new members, it is against forum rules to post links to other blog sites abusing fellow members of this forum. If you wish to criticise or ridicule someone please do so in your real name and not by hiding behind usernames. TY
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What jemmie? Are you getting confused?
I don't know about being confused but it is a ridiculous post which should have been removed. I M O
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Maybe they should have thought about another entry then?
Yes Indeed, that would have been a good idea, the PJ were not convinced of that 'abductor' entry or exit anyway. Come to think of it it was embarrassingly pathetic IMO.
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What jemmie? Are you getting confused?
No. No confusion here. Perhaps you missed that first interview with sister Phil. claiming Kate saw the the window open, curtains blowing and shutters 'jemmied' that was the word she used . now how does she know that? well someone who was there told her- simples.
So that initial claim is lies no shutters were damaged by being 'jemmied'. Perhaps they should have mentioned there was an unlocked door... but then what would people say about them?...
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I don't know about being confused but it is a ridiculous post which should have been removed. I M O
It is the Tapas group who made these stupid stories to try and make a time line fit with a 'phantom 'abductor'. I am just questioning them.
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It is the Tapas group who made these stupid stories to try and make a time line fit with a 'phantom 'abductor'. I am just questioning them.
Not at all!
I find your posts extremely enlightening!
I assume you are accusing the Tapas parents of lying ( making up stories) to make the time line fit with a " phantom abductor"
Is it just your opinion the abductor is a phantom ?
Do you have a cite to back this statement as the forum rules require?
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Erngath very true --don't forget witnesses and other people who were on holiday at the time.
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Please return to the topic of the thread ... future off topic posts will be deleted.
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Back on topic,its alleged in places that the theory libels certain people,given that Amaral successfully defended his theory are they on safe ground in Portugal rather than in the uk?
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Back on topic,its alleged in places that the theory libels certain people,given that Amaral successfully defended his theory are they on safe ground in Portugal rather than in the uk?
Do you think the theory is not libellous?
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Back on topic,its alleged in places that the theory libels certain people,given that Amaral successfully defended his theory are they on safe ground in Portugal rather than in the uk?
Has there been an English Language edition released? However I wasn't aware Amaral was part of this research group corresponding with the Portuguese AG ... if he is not, you may very well still be swinging off topic.
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Has there been an English Language edition released? However I wasn't aware Amaral was part of this research group corresponding with the Portuguese AG ... if he is not, you may very well still be swinging off topic.
Over on Cmomm I believe.
I was citing Amaral's win as an example,
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Do you think the theory is not libellous?
I've no idea unlike some I don't pretend to be a libel lawyer,you'll notice I said alleged in other places.
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Back on topic,its alleged in places that the theory libels certain people,given that Amaral successfully defended his theory are they on safe ground in Portugal rather than in the uk?
may be...may be not...amaral was given some consideration because he was a policeman and claiming things taht were mainly in the files
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I've no idea unlike some I don't pretend to be a libel lawyer,you'll notice I said alleged in other places.
do we have someone claiming to be a libel lawyer on here...or are you confused
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As far as I know that's been said on CMOMM for years. I wonder why the McCanns have taken no action?
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm
List of photos handed to the PJ on 8/9 May 2007.
The playground photo, showing a very much alive Madeleine, was taken on 2/5/07 (587-B R-90).
CCTV from the Paraiso seems to show bright sunlight around 5.30pm .http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PARAISO.htm
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As far as I know that's been said on CMOMM for years. I wonder why the McCanns have taken no action?
Perhaps because the McCanns know from their past dealings with one of their members that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference and would only enhance that forum's sense of solidarity and victimhood, which they so seem to thrive upon? IMO.
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http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HOLIDAY-PHOTOS-LIST.htm
List of photos handed to the PJ on 8/9 May 2007.
The playground photo, showing a very much alive Madeleine, was taken on 2/5/07 (587-B R-90).
CCTV from the Paraiso seems to show bright sunlight around 5.30pm .http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PARAISO.htm
I think I even saw someone in a sunhat and sunglasses on that video, it must have been faked!
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Is there anyone currently posting on this forum on a regular basis who believes there is any merit in this letter and this theory? Is there anyone here prepared to defend it?
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Is there anyone currently posting on this forum on a regular basis who believes there is any merit in this letter and this theory? Is there anyone here prepared to defend it?
Were you expecting anyone to defend it? I would have thought anyone agreeing with it would be posting on another very popular site, not this one.
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Were you expecting anyone to defend it? I would have thought anyone agreeing with it would be posting on another very popular site, not this one.
Anyone who disagreed with it would of course be automatically banned from the site
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Were you expecting anyone to defend it? I would have thought anyone agreeing with it would be posting on another very popular site, not this one.
I thought there was a cross-section of views on this forum, with not everyone singing from the same hymn sheet, as it were, so yes, I was expecting someone to defend it. Do you believe popularity of the forum in question confers any credibility to the theory?
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Anyone who disagreed with it would of course be automatically banned from the site
You can, of course, prove the truth of your statement? Otherwise you seem to have forgotten to add imo.
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You can, of course, prove the truth of your statement? Otherwise you seem to have forgotten to add imo.
Maybe that comes from personal experience. In which case I'd have to agree.
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You can, of course, prove the truth of your statement? Otherwise you seem to have forgotten to add imo.
There is, not one dissenting voice... Dissent is not allowed.. Ime
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Maybe that comes from personal experience. In which case I'd have to agree.
Well, speaking from my personal experience, you are both wrong.
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Well, speaking from my personal experience, you are both wrong.
We can't change our personal experiences.
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We can't change our personal experiences.
All I can say is that CMOMM doesn't ban those who simply disagree with them in my experience. So it's not a blanket rule, as has been asserted.
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All I can say is that CMOMM doesn't ban those who simply disagree with them in my experience. So it's not a blanket rule, as has been asserted.
I think you'd be hard pressed to spot a single member of that forum who thinks Madeleine was abducted and who is currently allowed to post.
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All I can say is that CMOMM doesn't ban those who simply disagree with them in my experience. So it's not a blanket rule, as has been asserted.
I think all the various McCann sites are guilty of tolerating little dissent from the stated aims.
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Well, speaking from my personal experience, you are both wrong.
And speaking from my personal experience, they are both wrong.
I don't agree with the MMRG findings.
Neither do I have evidence of an abduction, hence I cannot be described as a supporter or a believer.
And that's the difference.
It may well be that supporters or believers get banned. I wouldn't know about that.
From a quick scan of the file sent to the Portuguese AG, it is not likely to lead to a re-evaluation of the evidence. I need to add an IMO to this assertion.
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And speaking from my personal experience, they are both wrong.
I don't agree with the MMRG findings.
Neither do I have evidence of an abduction, hence I cannot be described as a supporter or a believer.
And that's the difference.
It may well be that supporters or believers get banned. I wouldn't know about that.
From a quick scan of the file sent to the Portuguese AG, it is not likely to lead to a re-evaluation of the evidence. I need to add an IMO to this assertion.
If you do not believe the mccanns are truthful then you are, a sceptic
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All I can say is that CMOMM doesn't ban those who simply disagree with them in my experience. So it's not a blanket rule, as has been asserted.
Yes they do
Belief in abduction results in a ban
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And speaking from my personal experience, they are both wrong.
I don't agree with the MMRG findings.
Neither do I have evidence of an abduction, hence I cannot be described as a supporter or a believer.
And that's the difference.
It may well be that supporters or believers get banned. I wouldn't know about that.
From a quick scan of the file sent to the Portuguese AG, it is not likely to lead to a re-evaluation of the evidence. I need to add an IMO to this assertion.
Are you still a member? have you posted your reasons for disagreeing with their findings on their forum?
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Are you still a member? have you posted your reasons for disagreeing with their findings on their forum?
sil is not a memeber..as I understand sil was banned
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If you do not believe the mccanns are truthful then you are, a sceptic
It makes it a lot easier to Group people together and then criticise the whole group based on the actions of the most extreme. We could all do that.
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It makes it a lot easier to Group people together and then criticise the whole group based on the actions of the most extreme. We could all do that.
If you read my post you will see I am not criticizing anyone
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If you read my post you will see I am not criticizing anyone
You are putting labels on people, why?
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If you do not believe the mccanns are truthful then you are, a sceptic
SIL said he doesn't have evidence of an abduction. How does that translate to doubting the McCann's truthfulness?
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It makes it a lot easier to Group people together and then criticise the whole group based on the actions of the most extreme. We could all do that.
The thing is ... we are discussing the actions of people who have grouped themselves together. They are the ones putting a label on themselves. One might say they have dedicated themselves to numerous campaigns showing extraordinary persistence in devising wheezes to throw a spanner into the works or at least impede as best they can any positive initiative into the search for a missing child.
In my opinion they have brought extraordinary resolve to their self appointed task which has been continued over a time span of eleven years and which will continue as long as the authorities and as long as Madeleine McCann's parents keep trying to find out what happened to her.
There is nothing to prevent members of that forum posting here; just as there is nothing to prevent some of our own members from agreeing with their action of contacting the Portuguese Attorney General.
I await with interest the AG's response.
Does anyone know if there has been a formal acknowledgement of receipt sent out yet?
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SIL said he doesn't have evidence of an abduction. How does that translate to doubting the McCann's truthfulness?
The open window... The mccanns statements.. Does sil accept these as truthful or is he, sceptical... Probably better if sil answers for himself
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The thing is ... we are discussing the actions of people who have grouped themselves together. They are the ones putting a label on themselves. One might say they have dedicated themselves to numerous campaigns showing extraordinary persistence in devising wheezes to throw a spanner into the works or at least impede as best they can any positive initiative into the search for a missing child.
In my opinion they have brought extraordinary resolve to their self appointed task which has been continued over a time span of eleven years and which will continue as long as the authorities and as long as Madeleine McCann's parents keep trying to find out what happened to her.
There is nothing to prevent members of that forum posting here; just as there is nothing to prevent some of our own members from agreeing with their action of contacting the Portuguese Attorney General.
I await with interest the AG's response.
Does anyone know if there has been a formal acknowledgement of receipt sent out yet?
Sounds like a good description of the McCann supporter group.
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You are putting labels on people, why?
I'm not putting any labels on anyone... The labels, are already there.. It is, sil who mentioned labels in his post.. Ask him
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The open window... The mccanns statements.. Does sil accept these as truthful or is he, sceptical... Probably better if sil answers for himself
I can answer if I want to and you seem to think that anyone who sees no evidence of an abduction is accusing the McCanns of lying. I disagree. Mark Williams-Thomas thinks Madeleine woke and wandered. Is he a sceptic? Is he accusing the McCanns of being liars?
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I can answer if I want to and you seem to think that anyone who sees no evidence of an abduction is accusing the McCanns of lying. I disagree. Mark Williams-Thomas thinks Madeleine woke and wandered. Is he a sceptic? Is he accusing the McCanns of being liars?
Of course you can answer as it, seems sil doesn't want to
A sceptic in this instance is someone who does not believe the mccanns
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Of course you can answer as it, seems sil doesn't want to
A sceptic in this instance is someone who does not believe the mccanns
It seems you don't want to answer my questions.
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It seems you don't want to answer my questions.
I'm more than happy too... Fire, away
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I'm more than happy too... Fire, away
They're in my post #323
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They're in my post #323
I don't believe he has, accused the mccanns of lying so he is, therefore not a, skeptic
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Is there anyone currently posting on this forum on a regular basis who believes there is any merit in this letter and this theory? Is there anyone here prepared to defend it?
The moment the author claimed that something happened to Maddie prior to the 3rd May 2007 was the moment he or she lost ALL credibility because numerous independent witnesses saw her that day.
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I don't believe he has, accused the mccanns of lying so he is, therefore not a, skeptic
Williams-Thomas disagreed with the abduction theory. I assume that was because he thought the evidence didn't support it. SIL also found no evidence to support it. Why then do you reach different conclusions about them?
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Williams-Thomas disagreed with the abduction theory. I assume that was because he thought the evidence didn't support it. SIL also found no evidence to support it. Why then do you reach different conclusions about them?
Because sil has doubted the mccanns on several other issues, suggesting they are not telling the truth
There is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction so to say there is no evidence is untrue
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Is there anyone currently posting on this forum on a regular basis who believes there is any merit in this letter and this theory? Is there anyone here prepared to defend it?
Why should anyone feel the need to defend it ?
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Williams-Thomas disagreed with the abduction theory. I assume that was because he thought the evidence didn't support it. SIL also found no evidence to support it. Why then do you reach different conclusions about them?
Why are you quoting SIL as an authority? He has made a number of mistakes in his blog .... and I have only skim read part of it. SIL has done some valuable research and taken some wonderful photos for which we must thank him, but he certainly is no authority.
Williams-Thomas might have been influenced by the Mccanns being made arquidos? And his possible misunderstanding of the dog alerts and what they did and did not mean? I think many of us misunderstood those until they were deeply researched (thanks to Ferryman, Carana and others) and we began realise how futile they were.
Amaral, a senior Police Officer certainly misunderstood them, and maybe influenced by him W-T accepted them at face value, not realising what little they showed ?
AIMO, of course, but SILS mistakes are facts
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The moment the author claimed that something happened to Maddie prior to the 3rd May 2007 was the moment he or she lost ALL credibility because numerous independent witnesses saw her that day.
But, according to that group, all of the witnesses were all "unreliable", either because they were all mistaken or were in cahoots in a mega conspiracy.
What I find a bit bewildering is the hero worship of a certain coordinator who apparently got everything right... except for, well... just about everything.
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Why should anyone feel the need to defend it ?
Those who feel that it's an accurate portrayal of facts that would withstand scrutiny might, Jassi, why not?
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But, according to that group, all of the witnesses were all "unreliable", either because they were all mistaken or were in cahoots in a mega conspiracy.
What I find a bit bewildering is the hero worship of a certain coordinator who apparently got everything right... except for, well... just about everything.
Don't know about 'hero worship' but there's certainly a degree of enthusiasm for the guy who challenged the McCanns and won.
What is there not to like ? 8)-)))
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Williams-Thomas disagreed with the abduction theory. I assume that was because he thought the evidence didn't support it. SIL also found no evidence to support it. Why then do you reach different conclusions about them?
think the latest development means sil could never be regarded as neutral....I had to chuckle...what neutral person would name their dog......wait for it......
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Because sil has doubted the mccanns on several other issues, suggesting they are not telling the truth
There is certainly circumstantial evidence of abduction so to say there is no evidence is untrue
So your post #311 in answer to SIL's post wasn't in answer to that particular post at all. It was, in effect, an accusation based upon your opinion of SJL's unidentified previous posts? An accusation for which you have offered no evidence. Until you do so, it remains your opinion.
What is your circumstantial evidence of abduction?
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So your post #311 in answer to SIL's post wasn't in answer to that particular post at all. It was, in effect, an accusation based upon your opinion of SJL's unidentified previous posts? An accusation for which you have offered no evidence. Until you do so, it remains your opinion.
What is your circumstantial evidence of abduction?
lets start withe the mccanns statements
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Don't know about 'hero worship' but there's certainly a degree of enthusiasm for the guy who challenged the McCanns and won.
What is there not to like ? 8)-)))
On his right to continue to accuse them of unproven crimes.
If you were the subject of such a book, a documentary and an intense promo tour all to the effect that, as an expert, professional X's view was that you had (substitute anything you like... that you had defrauded a family member, that you are a covert hooker working for the FSB, that you had raped x victims, ate babies for breakfast, whatever you like), all in the name of the superior right of free speech, what would your reaction be?
Add to that that you felt at the time that you felt that you were being framed.
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lets start withe the mccanns statements
What about them?
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On his right to continue to accuse them of unproven crimes.
If you were the subject of such a book, a documentary and an intense promo tour all to the effect that, as an expert, professional X's view was that you had (substitute anything you like... that you had defrauded a family member, that you are a covert hooker working for the FSB, that you had raped x victims, ate babies for breakfast, whatever you like), all in the name of the superior right of free speech, what would your reaction be?
Don't take it so to heart, he hasn't written about you, has he?
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What about them?
They are circumstantial evidence of abduction
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They are circumstantial evidence of abduction
Really? How?
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Any chance we might consider meandering back to the topic of the thread even if just now and again ... thank you
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Don't take it so to heart, he hasn't written about you, has he?
No, but it's the kind of thing that could happen to any of us (you, me... anyone).
Can you honestly say that it wouldn't have bothered you if you and your loved ones had been subjected to a constant onslought, particularly by someone with a supposed level of credibility? Plus threats of vigilante action against you and your loved ones?
All I'm asking is to step back a minute and think about it, not for anyone to change their minds as to their perception that they must have been involved (or not)... too late for that, for most of those who still follow the case.
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No, but it's the kind of thing that could happen to any of us (you, me... anyone).
Can you honestly say that it wouldn't have bothered you if you and your loved ones had been subjected to a constant onslought, particularly by someone with a supposed level of credibility? Plus threats of vigilante action against you and your loved ones?
All I'm asking is to step back a minute and think about it, not for anyone to change their minds as to their perception that they must have been involved (or not)... too late for that, for most of those who still follow the case.
Yes, but it didn't so I don't.
I can't influence the outcome of this so I don't bother and I certainly don't get concerned over the fate of people I don't know and wouldn't want to know.
Harsh maybe, but that's life.
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On his right to continue to accuse them of unproven crimes.
If you were the subject of such a book, a documentary and an intense promo tour all to the effect that, as an expert, professional X's view was that you had (substitute anything you like... that you had defrauded a family member, that you are a covert hooker working for the FSB, that you had raped x victims, ate babies for breakfast, whatever you like), all in the name of the superior right of free speech, what would your reaction be?
Add to that that you felt at the time that you felt that you were being framed.
Sounds like Lorna Doone, well Carver rather than Lorna I suppose.
Now if ever there was a blagging book that was it. There is even a statue of the dear lady by the River Barle in Dulverton.... *%87
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Yes, but it didn't so I don't.
I can't influence the outcome of this so I don't bother and I certainly don't get concerned over the fate of people I don't know and wouldn't want to know.
Harsh maybe, but that's life.
Fair enough, but thanks for the honesty.
It would be impossible, IMO, for anyone to get worked up about the fate of every single person on this planet, anyway. I don't see how it would be possible.
On the other hand... I do find the quote / saying that starts with "First they came for..." to be thought provoking.
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Sounds like Lorna Doone, well Carver rather than Lorna I suppose.
Now if ever there was a blagging book that was it. There is even a statue of the dear lady by the River Barle in Dulverton.... *%87
Not a terribly nice chap, was he?
Or was it a case of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfwN0X8YnWo
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Sounds like Lorna Doone, well Carver rather than Lorna I suppose.
Now if ever there was a blagging book that was it. There is even a statue of the dear lady by the River Barle in Dulverton.... *%87
Why do you call it a blagging book, Alice?
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Why are you quoting SIL as an authority? He has made a number of mistakes in his blog .... and I have only skim read part of it. SIL has done some valuable research and taken some wonderful photos for which we must thank him, but he certainly is no authority.
Williams-Thomas might have been influenced by the Mccanns being made arquidos? And his possible misunderstanding of the dog alerts and what they did and did not mean? I think many of us misunderstood those until they were deeply researched (thanks to Ferryman, Carana and others) and we began realise how futile they were.
Amaral, a senior Police Officer certainly misunderstood them, and maybe influenced by him W-T accepted them at face value, not realising what little they showed ?
AIMO, of course, but SILS mistakes are facts
I wasn't quoting SIL as 'an authority' if you read the previous posts. I am, however, of the opinion that SIL has done far more research than Ferryman, and is streets ahead in terms of attention to detail and lack of bias.
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I wasn't quoting SIL as 'an authority' if you read the previous posts. I am, however, of the opinion that SIL has done far more research than Ferryman, and is streets ahead in terms of attention to detail and lack of bias.
I would say sil does not have a clue...but you all seem to think you are world class experts....
sils take on the australian DOC
Davel has predicted that it will be supportive of the McCanns. I am of the opinion it will be heavily critical of the McCanns. This difference of opinion matters not a jot as we will soon find out the reality of the situation.
Sil is heavily biased due to the fact that both the mCcanns and Grange were not interested in his offer of assistance.....I find the fact that he expected both these to accept his help quite strange
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On his right to continue to accuse them of unproven crimes.
If you were the subject of such a book, a documentary and an intense promo tour all to the effect that, as an expert, professional X's view was that you had (substitute anything you like... that you had defrauded a family member, that you are a covert hooker working for the FSB, that you had raped x victims, ate babies for breakfast, whatever you like), all in the name of the superior right of free speech, what would your reaction be?
Add to that that you felt at the time that you felt that you were being framed.
Isn't that just your opinion? His reasons for 'going public' were accepted by the Portuguese courts, as was the fact that he was describing the investigation up to a certain point in time. The first judge found him guilty, but only by by resorting to accusing him of breaking rules connected to his employment. Even she acknowledged that she would have been unable to find him guilty otherwise.
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Isn't that just your opinion? His reasons for 'going public' were accepted by the Portuguese courts, as was the fact that he was describing the investigation up to a certain point in time. The first judge found him guilty, but only by by resorting to accusing him of breaking rules connected to his employment. Even she acknowledged that she would have been unable to find him guilty otherwise.
he wasnt describing the investigation...the investigation never said they could prove maddie died in the apartment...he was guilty of defamation..imo...which the ECHR will correct...again imo
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Why do you call it a blagging book, Alice?
OFF TOPIC I KNOW
Have you ever been to that part of Exmoor? It's a beautiful place, I have even been up The Doone Valley on horseback but talk about cashing in on a book about someone who didn't exist!. The closer to Malmsmead Bridge the higher the prices starting with the ice creams!
It's no worse than Jamaica Inn on Bodmin Moor though where there is a plaque on the floor in one of the bars inscribed "Joss Merlyn was murdered on this spot"; oh no he wasn't, he didn't exist either.
It's a question of "do you really mind that you are being blagged and where is your personal line".
Just steer clear of the "Trekkies" !
I like The Animals vid. Hilton Valentine looking bored and Alan Price looking smug cos he was the only one to make money from The House of The Rising Sun!
Bin it if you wish mods.... ?{)(**
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OFF TOPIC I KNOW
Have you ever been to that part of Exmoor? It's a beautiful place, I have even been up The Doone Valley on horseback but talk about cashing in on a book about someone who didn't exist!. The closer to Malmsmead Bridge the higher the prices starting with the ice creams!
It's no worse than Jamaica Inn on Bodmin Moor though where there is a plaque on the floor in one of the bars inscribed "Joss Merlyn was murdered on this spot"; oh no he wasn't, he didn't exist either.
It's a question of "do you really mind that you are being blagged and where is your personal line".
Just steer clear of the "Trekkies" !
I like The Animals vid. Hilton Valentine looking bored and Alan Price looking smug cos he was the only one to make money from The House of The Rising Sun!
Bin it if you wish mods.... ?{)(**
Wuthering Heights too. Haworth does very well out of Cathy and Heathcliffe.
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OFF TOPIC I KNOW
Have you ever been to that part of Exmoor? It's a beautiful place, I have even been up The Doone Valley on horseback but talk about cashing in on a book about someone who didn't exist!. The closer to Malmsmead Bridge the higher the prices starting with the ice creams!
It's no worse than Jamaica Inn on Bodmin Moor though where there is a plaque on the floor in one of the bars inscribed "Joss Merlyn was murdered on this spot"; oh no he wasn't, he didn't exist either.
It's a question of "do you really mind that you are being blagged and where is your personal line".
Just steer clear of the "Trekkies" !
I like The Animals vid. Hilton Valentine looking bored and Alan Price looking smug cos he was the only one to make money from The House of The Rising Sun!
Bin it if you wish mods.... ?{)(**
I stayed at the Hunters Inn and re read Lorna doone...didnt do it on horseback...did Ibiza on Andaluzion stallion...that was an experience...cut the barrymore jokes
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Why should anyone feel the need to defend it ?
I agree, it's indefensible, however I was simply curious to know if anyone here thought the theory had merit. It would appear not.
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I stayed at the Hunters Inn and re read Lorna doone...didnt do it on horseback...did Ibiza on Andaluzion stallion...that was an experience...cut the barrymore jokes
You disappoint me.
I was expecting a claim you chased around the streets of Ciutadella on a PRE during the festival of Sant Joan.
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I would say sil does not have a clue...but you all seem to think you are world class experts....
sils take on the australian DOC
Davel has predicted that it will be supportive of the McCanns. I am of the opinion it will be heavily critical of the McCanns. This difference of opinion matters not a jot as we will soon find out the reality of the situation.
Sil is heavily biased due to the fact that both the mCcanns and Grange were not interested in his offer of assistance.....I find the fact that he expected both these to accept his help quite strange
Trashing a fellow member? oh how things never change. I was just wondering who you were referring to regarding this sentence: "but you all seem to think you are world class experts...." I would surmise the 'you all' are every person who do not fall at the feet of the McCANNS IN holy worship.
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he wasnt describing the investigation...the investigation never said they could prove maddie died in the apartment...he was guilty of defamation..imo...which the ECHR will correct...again imo
He was describing the investigation- namely a theory which they all agreed was more believable than the abductor through a window bit of nonsense. A theory. yes that is what it was/is on record as being. and he wasn't charged with defamation or anything else regarding his claims. So time to break the good news. The McCanns were suspects and may well still be.
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They are circumstantial evidence of abduction
Oh Good. Care to explain them em is there more than one?
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I agree, it's indefensible, however I was simply curious to know if anyone here thought the theory had merit. It would appear not.
Simply curious?, and what did you intend to do with the information if anyone did agree? Is it any of your business what people think, it's not like you can control them hahahahahaha- yes posts can be deleted but the thoughts are still there.
It would seem the supporters on this particular forum are so used to demonising anyone who does not fall at the feet of the McCanns get 'shocked' when this does not match their expectations.
News - we do not all share Bennett's ideas or beliefs we are not a unified religion!
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Simply curious?, and what did you intend to do with the information if anyone did agree? Is it any of your business what people think, it's not like you can control them hahahahahaha- yes posts can be deleted but the thoughts are still there.
It would seem the supporters on this particular forum are so used to demonising anyone who does not fall at the feet of the McCanns get 'shocked' when this does not match their expectations.
News - we do not all share Bennett's ideas or beliefs we are not a unified religion!
I apologise for any offence my question may have caused you.
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I apologise for any offence my question may have caused you.
I trust you have managed to regain your ability to stand.
We supporters seem to be prone to" falling down" at the feet of the McCanns.😁
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I apologise for any offence my question may have caused you.
No offence caused- but thank you for the apology anyway.
You didn't like my reply huh? well ya win some...
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I trust you have managed to regain your ability to stand.
We supporters seem to be prone to" falling down" at the feet of the McCanns.😁
metaphorically speaking... but you get the picture. 8**8:/: 8**8:/:
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metaphorically speaking... but you get the picture. 8**8:/: 8**8:/:
No. !
It's a picture you strive to paint but it's entirely ridiculous.
In fact the more you try to paint that particular picture, the more ridiculous it seems.
In my opinion of course.
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No offence caused- but thank you for the apology anyway.
You didn't like my reply huh? well ya win some...
I don't believe I expressed a preference either way, however it would have been interesting to find someone on this forum who did believe Madeleine died before the 3rd of May in order to enter into an on-topic discussion with them about it (though I suppose that wouldn't have been allowed owing to the libel rules). Still, it does interest me, how people get these strange ideas in their heads based on evidence as flimsy as "The Last Photo".
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I trust you have managed to regain your ability to stand.
We supporters seem to be prone to" falling down" at the feet of the McCanns.😁
It is quite baffling how one can be tarred with the very same brush that one is accused of using against others. Oh well. It's late.
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I don't believe I expressed a preference either way, however it would have been interesting to find someone on this forum who did believe Madeleine died before the 3rd of May in order to enter into an on-topic discussion with them about it (though I suppose that wouldn't have been allowed owing to the libel rules). Still, it does interest me, how people get these strange ideas in their heads based on evidence as flimsy as "The Last Photo".
Yes, I understand your point there. seems reasonable if it were for a debate and not accusatory as is the usual case by forum supporters.
We all have to understand unless we were NOT there we do not know what happened and so theories- some good, some bad some pathetic all should be discussed and analysed reasonably.
It should also be helpful if supporters would understand that they do not know this family or anything about their private lives or what goes on behind closed doors AND they do not know know what has happened to MBM or if her parents were involved or not. They may or may not be victims of something- we just do not know.
I am still bewildered about their behaviour- it makes me feel uneasy. I am quite vocal about that, I don't apologise for that because they are quite happy to label me a troll.
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No. !
It's a picture you strive to paint but it's entirely ridiculous.
In fact the more you try to paint that particular picture, the more ridiculous it seems.
In my opinion of course.
If you read this forum, and the excuses the supporters use it isn't difficult to get the picture. everyone and anyone who even mentions not believing the parents are set upon be protective cheetahs in a zoo.
It really does look like victim worship to me.
A bit like celebrities who do wrong.... aw poor them. to hell with their victims...just aw poor them.
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If you read this forum, and the excuses the supporters use it isn't difficult to get the picture. everyone and anyone who even mentions not believing the parents are set upon be protective cheetahs in a zoo.
It really does look like victim worship to me.
A bit like celebrities who do wrong.... aw poor them. to hell with their victims...just aw poor them.
What abject nonsense.
You do love the use of hyperbole.
"Falling down in worship"
"To hell with their victims""
"Victim worship"
"Set upon be protective cheetahs in a zoo"
Lol.
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What abject nonsense.
You do love the use of hyperbole.
"Falling down in worship"
"To hell with their victims""
"Victim worship"
"Set upon be protective cheetahs in a zoo"
Lol.
Hyperbole. &%%6 I am very impressed you are hanging onto my every word. I must be interestingly annoying to you in some way. It is very effective. I use that a lot.
I have absolutely nothing to say about you writing about me. yawn bed time.
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If you do not believe the mccanns are truthful then you are, a sceptic
A label.
In this case intended to discriminate.
Hence odious.
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A label.
In this case intended to discriminate.
Hence odious.
If you remember it was you who introduced the, label ...supporter... In your post
I don't see any discrimination...
Edit : personal comment removed
I will change it then
You see discrimination... Therefore... Odious
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Could we have some clarification on the rules rob
You refer to me as... Clearly confused...
But don't accept me referring to a poster as misguided
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It is my opinion that sil is misguided on quite a few things...am I not allowed to day that
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Why would anyone who is sceptical of the abduction theory be upset to be classed as a sceptic? I though many self-identified as sceptics anyway...?
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Why would anyone who is sceptical of the abduction theory be upset to be classed as a sceptic? I though many self-identified as sceptics anyway...?
That is why I find sils post misguided
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Why would anyone who is sceptical of the abduction theory be upset to be classed as a sceptic? I though many self-identified as sceptics anyway...?
It depends whether you are creating strawman arguments.
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It depends whether you are creating strawman arguments.
that does't explain it IMO.
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that does't explain it IMO.
Slartibartfast never does. You are on a wing and a prayer on this one.
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Slartibartfast never does. You are on a wing and a prayer on this one.
It isn’t difficult, identify a group (baddies) with nasty characters, create arguments about why those nasty characters are wrong (and nasty) and hence the Group (baddies), suggest that some reasonable and sensible people are part of the Group (baddies) and hey presto those people are nasty...
Not rocket science.
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It isn’t difficult, identify a group (baddies) with nasty characters, create arguments about why those nasty characters are wrong (and nasty) and hence the Group (baddies), suggest that some reasonable and sensible people are part of the Group (baddies) and hey presto those people are nasty...
Not rocket science.
Are sceptics baddies then? I thought that was the politically correct term, as used by the "baddies" themselves?
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Are sceptics baddies then? I thought that was the politically correct term, as used by the "baddies" themselves?
Doesn’t matter, to the obsessives on each side the others are baddies.
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Doesn’t matter, to the obsessive son each side the others are baddies.
So, are we allowed to refer to sceptics and supporters or not?
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So, are we allowed to refer to sceptics and supporters or not?
There was discussion on the forum some time ago ... sorry I can't find the thread ... the result of which was a consensus to use the terminologies of "sceptic" and "supporter" in lieu of more offensive sobriquets.
I've always found the labelling puerile ... but there it is :)
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And speaking from my personal experience, they are both wrong.
I don't agree with the MMRG findings.
Neither do I have evidence of an abduction, hence I cannot be described as a supporter or a believer.
And that's the difference.
It may well be that supporters or believers get banned. I wouldn't know about that.
From a quick scan of the file sent to the Portuguese AG, it is not likely to lead to a re-evaluation of the evidence. I need to add an IMO to this assertion.
so sil uses the terms...supporter and beleiver....and then baulks when the term sceptic is used...
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It isn’t difficult, identify a group (baddies) with nasty characters, create arguments about why those nasty characters are wrong (and nasty) and hence the Group (baddies), suggest that some reasonable and sensible people are part of the Group (baddies) and hey presto those people are nasty...
Not rocket science.
There ae basically two groups...those who support the mccanns and those who are sceptical of the mccanns. Im a sceptic when it comes to the alerts and have no problem with the word. I dont see why others have aproblem
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There ae basically two groups...those who support the mccanns and those who are sceptical of the mccanns. Im a sceptic when it comes to the alerts and have no problem with the word. I dont see why others have aproblem
I was just thinking that perhaps we should reverse the labels for a bit: sceptics and supporters of the theory of parental involvement, just to shake things up abit.
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so sil uses the terms...supporter and beleiver....and then baulks when the term sceptic is used...
I find the term "believer" quite insulting tbh.
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There ae basically two groups...those who support the mccanns and those who are sceptical of the mccanns. Im a sceptic when it comes to the alerts and have no problem with the word. I dont see why others have aproblem
They would have been better concentrating on what occurred post disappearance and more specifically with Halligen and Metodo 3.
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I find the term "believer" quite insulting tbh.
Just as much so in my opinion is "the faithful". As adults do we really require any such terminology ... particularly when quite often the intention in using it is derision.
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They would have been better concentrating on what occurred post disappearance and more specifically with Halligen and Metodo 3.
I think thats all in your imagination......but you seem to want to introduce it to every thread...you said you were going to contact the PJ about it several months ago...I take it you havent
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They would have been better concentrating on what occurred post disappearance and more specifically with Halligen and Metodo 3.
I don't think there should have been any question of the parents of a missing child being put in the situation of having to employ private detectives to carry out a police duty.
Since the police weren't looking for a live child when the case was archived and prior to that the first investigation had the bit between the teeth of investigating suspects and not a live child; with the second investigation clearing up as much mess as possible and retrieving usable information from the first; what on earth were the parents to do?
They had the money donated by well wishers ... it could have sat in a bank gathering interest when there was still interest to be accrued ... or it could have been used to actively pursue their daughter's case and what had become of her.
I don't think there is any room to criticise her parents for doing what they could to find Madeleine. I think the criticism lies in the fact they had to.
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There ae basically two groups...those who support the mccanns and those who are sceptical of the mccanns. Im a sceptic when it comes to the alerts and have no problem with the word. I dont see why others have aproblem
I disagree, there are a wide range of people with different opinions. To put them in two groups is far too simplistic. For example TB and his follows are not sceptics IMO, they are not inclined to question or doubt the McCanns, they are believers in an alternate truth.
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I disagree, there are a wide range of people with different opinions. To put them in two groups is far too simplistic. For example TB and his follows are not sceptics IMO, they are not inclined to question or doubt the McCanns, they are believers in an alternate truth.
Are these "believers in an alternate truth" attempting to proselyte by their membership of other fora, perhaps even this one?
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I disagree, there are a wide range of people with different opinions. To put them in two groups is far too simplistic. For example TB and his follows are not sceptics IMO, they are not inclined to question or doubt the McCanns, they are believers in an alternate truth.
Is that another way of saying that he's looking for revenge having been publicly humiliated and hung out to dry by the court?
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I disagree, there are a wide range of people with different opinions. To put them in two groups is far too simplistic. For example TB and his follows are not sceptics IMO, they are not inclined to question or doubt the McCanns, they are believers in an alternate truth.
A bizarre post... You are suggesting TB does not doubt the McCanns...
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Are these "believers in an alternate truth" attempting to proselyte by their membership of other fora, perhaps even this one?
In my opinion they join other forums to have their say, just like anyone else.
It appears to me that there are areas which people agree on, although their reasons may differ. The McCann's supporters and the MMRG share doubts about the Smith's evidence and motives, for example.
I admire Carana's dedication in responding to these 60 questions, and I mostly agree with Carana's conclusions.
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Are these "believers in an alternate truth" attempting to proselyte by their membership of other fora, perhaps even this one?
Have they proselytised you?
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Have they proselytised you?
Having had experience of "rough wooing" ... I would reply in the affirmative.
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What is, the problem.... I support the mccanns because based on the evidence I've seen I think they are good people who have suffered the loss of their daughter... I don't believe they are trying to cover anything up...I think they are genuine in their efforts to find out what has happened... So I'm a supporter and a believer... No problem
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In my opinion they join other forums to have their say, just like anyone else.
It appears to me that there are areas which people agree on, although their reasons may differ. The McCann's supporters and the MMRG share doubts about the Smith's evidence and motives, for example.
I admire Carana's dedication in responding to these 60 questions, and I mostly agree with Carana's conclusions.
You mean they are members of a forum which does not allow them "to have their say" so feel the need to join fora such as ours which will enable them to express an opinion "just like anyone else."
How extraordinary is that?
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I disagree, there are a wide range of people with different opinions. To put them in two groups is far too simplistic. For example TB and his follows are not sceptics IMO, they are not inclined to question or doubt the McCanns, they are believers in an alternate truth.
You mean like those who believe the Queen is actually a lizard from Middle Earth?
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You mean like those who believe the Queen is actually a lizard from Middle Earth?
No, more that as we don’t know what the truth is people believe different versions of it.
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No, more that as we don’t know what the truth is people believe different versions of it.
IMO Either the mccanns know exactly what happened to Maddie and where she is... or they don't.... There is no in between
Edit IMO added.
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IMO Either the mccanns know exactly what happened to Maddie and where she is... or they don't.... There is no in between
Edit IMO added.
There is Angelo’s theory, though not one I subscribe to myself.
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You mean they are members of a forum which does not allow them "to have their say" so feel the need to join fora such as ours which will enable them to express an opinion "just like anyone else."
How extraordinary is that?
No, that's not what I meant. People join different forums to discuss the case with different people imo.
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IMO Either the mccanns know exactly what happened to Maddie and where she is... or they don't.... There is no in between
Edit IMO added.
What the McCanns know or don’t know is immaterial. The members of this forum don’t know.
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When a, new, thread, is, posted it's, totally predictable how individual posters, will respond... The, dogs.... The 48 questions... The jemmied shutters.. They respond on a supporter/sceptic viewpoint
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What the McCanns know or don’t know is immaterial. The members of this forum don’t know.
What the mccanns do or do not know is not immaterial... It's very important ....
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IMO Either the mccanns know exactly what happened to Maddie and where she is... or they don't.... There is no in between
Edit IMO added.
Strange edit... Either the mccanns know what happened and where she is.. Or they don't.... Surely that is a fact not an opinion
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What the mccanns do or do not know is not immaterial... It's very important ....
As far as debate on internet fora it is immaterial. We don’t know what they know.
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As far as debate on internet fora it is immaterial. We don’t know what they know.
There is constant debate here suggesting it hey do know
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There is constant debate here suggesting it hey do know
So who on here knows what the McCanns know?
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So who on here knows what the McCanns know?
Since that is off topic it is probably immaterial to the thread. Maybe a more pertinent question would be why this group of people ... what are they? ... researchers or investigators? took it upon themselves to send a twenty page letter to the Portuguese Attorney General possibly on the presumption they know more than Scotland Yard and the Judicial Police combined.
First of all ... why only twenty pages?
Isn't the going rate 60?
Secondly the purpose of the missive? Do they really expect acknowledgement?
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So who on here knows what the McCanns know?
Some think they do
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Some think they do
Some even profess to know what they were thinking and feeling at certain moments in time.
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*%^^&
Some even profess to know what they were thinking and feeling at certain moments in time.
Yes it's called empathy... Some of us have it...
Edit :Personal insult removed.
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Some even profess to know what they were thinking and feeling at certain moments in time.
not to mention where they were going and what they were carrying at certain moments in time.
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*%^^&
Yes it's called empathy... Some of us have it... You obviously don't
You obviously think you do.
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You obviously think you do.
I would say I have a good understanding of how the mccanns feel... I also understand why they went jogging ....whats wong with that
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I would say I have a good understanding of how the mccanns feel... I also understand why they went jogging ....whats wong with that
Nothing so long as you understand you might be reading it wrong.
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Nothing so long as you understand you might be reading it wrong.
I'm not reading it wrong.. Perhaps you are reading things, wrong
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not to mention where they were going and what they were carrying at certain moments in time.
Those are facts to be discovered, what someone is feeling or thinking isn’t.
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Those are facts to be discovered, what someone is feeling or thinking isn’t.
How a person is, feeling is a fact... What they are thinking is, a, fact
It's ten years, now and I think it's just too difficult for sceptics to accept they have been wrong all this time
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How a person is, feeling is a fact... What they are thinking is, a, fact
It's ten years, now and I think it's just too difficult for sceptics to accept they have been wrong all this time
You can’t prove how someone is thinking or feeling.
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You can’t prove how someone is thinking or feeling.
Once again you use the word prove... What level of proof are you talking about... Justice and proof are based on belief...
I would, say it is clear and beyond any doubt how the mccanns have felt over the disappearance if maddie... They are devastated.... Do you dispute that
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Once again you use the word prove... What level of proof are you talking about... Justice and proof are based on belief...
I would, say it is clear and beyond any doubt how the mccanns have felt over the disappearance if maddie... They are devastated.... Do you dispute that
Only they know that.
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Only they know that.
Do you not think their close families would know
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Do you not think their close families would know
They may think they know.
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Those are facts to be discovered, what someone is feeling or thinking isn’t.
Yes, some people think that where someone was going and carrying what are facts, yet they haven't really got a clue.
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Only they know that.
and yet you wouldn't question it if it were Kerry or Denise telling you how they feel, I don't suppose?
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They may think they know.
And you may think they don't... You seem to want absilutevpriif which is plainly ridiculous... The mccanns have to prove themselves innocent... Which is impossible
Even if a culpritvwas found and found guilty some.... Perhaps you... Would still suspect the mccanns
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And you may think they don't... You seem to want absilutevpriif which is plainly ridiculous... The mccanns have to prove themselves innocent... Which is impossible
Even if a culpritvwas found and found guilty some.... Perhaps you... Would still suspect the mccanns
You appear to be struggling with the fact that at the present time we have no way of knowing for certain how someone feels or what they are thinking.
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You appear to be struggling with the fact that at the present time we have no way of knowing for certain how someone feels or what they are thinking.
I we every way of knowing....
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I we every way of knowing....
How do you know? Can you explain?
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I we every way of knowing....
On one hand you say we have no idea how someone would react to a situation like the disappearance of their daughter, on the other that we have every way of knowing. Could you please make your mind up ?
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"Said one of the group’s members: “We can only hope the authorities take notice. If our findings get published in the Portuguese media, the authorities might be obliged to make an official statement and it might get reported in the UK.
In a vague attempt to get back OnT, any idea of how the latest self-styled investigative initiative may have "prompt [ed] judicial authorities towards a reinvestigation" (of their current investigation) as a result of their "shocking" "conclusion"?
Come to think of it, has anyone noted extensive coverage in the PT media go, aside from Natasha Donn's hastily redacted press release report?
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"Said one of the group’s members: “We can only hope the authorities take notice. If our findings get published in the Portuguese media, the authorities might be obliged to make an official statement and it might get reported in the UK.
In a vague attempt to get back OnT, any idea of how the latest self-styled investigative initiative may have "prompt [ed] judicial authorities towards a reinvestigation" (of their current investigation) as a result of their "shocking" "conclusion"?
Come to think of it, has anyone noted extensive coverage in the PT media go, aside from Natasha Donn's hastily redacted press release report?
I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that this group's efforts are likely to sink without trace, like all their other attempts at attracting the attention of the authorities to their cause.
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I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that this group's efforts are likely to sink without trace, like all their other attempts at attracting the attention of the authorities to their cause.
I'm intrigued as to why Natasha's original "article" was pulled prior to redaction.
Who disapproved? Someone from the "research group"? An editor? Amaral? Someone else?
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I'm intrigued as to why Natasha's original "article" was pulled prior to redaction.
Who disapproved? Someone from the "research group"? An editor? Amaral? Someone else?
I thought the article reappeared with the offending libel about the Last Photo removed?
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Apparently this was her reply to someone on twitter.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYMagXvWsAEe9RZ?format=jpg
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Something to look forward to 8)-)))
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Apparently this was her reply to someone on twitter.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYMagXvWsAEe9RZ?format=jpg
Hmmm. Tabloid hacks don't normally cede their right to scoops out of deference, do they?
A redacted version did eventually reappear, and I haven't come across a mega scoop by a "much bigger paper" with a "much more comprehensive article"...
I wonder what could possibly have gone wrong?
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Apparently this was her reply to someone on twitter.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYMagXvWsAEe9RZ?format=jpg
That was days ago wasn't it, and she reposted the article with the libellous inference removed. I think it's fairly safe to say that the "big" paper had second thoughts...
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That was days ago wasn't it, and she reposted the article with the libellous inference removed. I think it's fairly safe to say that the "big" paper had second thoughts...
If one compares the two versions, there's more than a libellous comment removed...
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And if the Portuguese authorities don't respond positively to this latest theory, then what will the research group infer from this, I wonder? That the Portuguese are somehow complicit in a cover up, or being bullied by the UK, or simply incompetent, but never, never that they (the internet sleuths) are barking up the wrong tree, I'll bet.
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And if the Portuguese authorities don't respond positively to this latest theory, then what will the research group infer from this, I wonder? That the Portuguese are somehow complicit in a cover up, or being bullied by the UK, or simply incompetent, but never, never that they (the internet sleuths) are barking up the wrong tree, I'll bet.
Does anyone really care ?.
In most cop shops dossier toting civilians are usually preceded by the customary "RRR RRR RRR Nutter Alert !" before some poor unsuspecting occifer draws the short straw then goes to deal with said dossier toting civilian.
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And if the Portuguese authorities don't respond positively to this latest theory, then what will the research group infer from this, I wonder? That the Portuguese are somehow complicit in a cover up, or being bullied by the UK, or simply incompetent, but never, never that they (the internet sleuths) are barking up the wrong tree, I'll bet.
Will it matter what they infer? It's not as if they are relevant to the investigation.
Like us, they are mere observers.
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Does anyone really care ?.
In most cop shops dossier toting civilians are usually preceded by the customary "RRR RRR RRR Nutter Alert !" before some poor unsuspecting occifer draws the short straw then goes to deal with said dossier toting civilian.
At the same time, they have no problem highlighting articles about taxpayers' money being wasted.
Oh, well, at least Natasha presumably earned something from the "scoop".
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Does anyone really care ?.
In most cop shops dossier toting civilians are usually preceded by the customary "RRR RRR RRR Nutter Alert !" before some poor unsuspecting occifer draws the short straw then goes to deal with said dossier toting civilian.
Care? No. Curious about the way these people's minds work? A bit. It was a rhetorical question anyway but thanks for your reply.
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Will it matter what they infer? It's not as if they are relevant to the investigation.
Like us, they are mere observers.
31 pages of discussion in, and we've reached a logical conclusion, may as well delete this, and all other threads on the subject of Madeleine's disappearance then!
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31 pages of discussion in, and we've reached a logical conclusion, may as well delete this, and all other threads on the subject of Madeleine's disappearance then!
Well for all the good it does we might as well. However, people do so love to exercise their egos so I suppose we must continue the game.
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At the same time, they have no problem highlighting articles about taxpayers' money being wasted.
Oh, well, at least Natasha presumably earned something from the "scoop".
That one is a two edged sword with folk on both "sides" wasting tax payers money on frivolous and vexatious FOIA enquiries. They all should be "done" for wasting police time.
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Care? No. Curious about the way these people's minds work? A bit. It was a rhetorical question anyway but thanks for your reply.
The same way as those who make FOIA applications about how many times a dawg has been deployed and what it trained on; IMNSHO
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Rules of the game?
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Rules of the game?
Should be a bit like 'Just a Minute' and played without repetition or deviation , but that would exclude a couple of the major contestants @)(++(*
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Should be a bit like 'Just a Minute' and played without repetition or deviation , but that would exclude a couple of the major contestants @)(++(*
No objections to that.
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Well for all the good it does we might as well. However, people do so love to exercise their egos so I suppose we must continue the game.
No one is compelling you to stay on the forum, or are you one of those with an ego to exercise too?
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No one is compelling you to stay on the forum, or are you one of those with an ego to exercise too?
Could be, but I'm mainly here for the entertainment value and I can certainly say I get my money's worth.
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Could be, but I'm mainly here for the entertainment value and I can certainly say I get my money's worth.
I'd consider leaving if you leave Jassi. I get value from your humour and wit too.
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Could be, but I'm mainly here for the entertainment value and I can certainly say I get my money's worth.
Its certainly peaked the interest of the guest's,up from the twenties and thirties to the low one hundreds yesterday.
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I'd consider leaving if you leave Jassi. I get value from your humour and wit too.
The thought of leaving never entered my head ?{)(**
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The thought of leaving never entered my head ?{)(**
It never entered robs either... It does enter mine
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Its certainly peaked the interest of the guest's,up from the twenties and thirties to the low one hundreds yesterday.
There are always peaks and troughs in the number of guests visiting the forum just as there are peaks and troughs in the number of members taking part in discussions at any given time.
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Its certainly peaked the interest of the guest's,up from the twenties and thirties to the low one hundreds yesterday.
Was there anything new or of renewed interest being discussed?
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Was there anything new or of renewed interest being discussed?
Not really probably just spectators interested in the arguments being put forward by some posters.
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Combining UK justice and a high twitter following could work. Being a member of a Facebook group with a large following could also make wild swings in the number of visitors. It is all hard work though.
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That would be boring! Combing UK justice and a high twitter following could work. Being a member of a Facebook group with a large following could also make wild swings in the number of visitors. It is all hard work though.
Indeed, but for some it seems to be their life's work.
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Indeed, but for some it seems to be their life's work.
Well it has been for me for nearly 2 years but I'm easing back as it is going on for too long. I'm comfortable with what I've achieved.
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Well it has been for me for nearly 2 years but I'm easing back as it is going on for too long. I'm comfortable with what I've achieved.
I wasn't thinking of you in particular when I wrote that.
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Anyway ... let us get back on topic ... anyone got erudite thoughts regarding the Portuguese Attorney General and the delivery of a was it forty page tome? landing on her desk.
Any one know if she has sent off a letter of thanks to the researchers as yet ... or is she too underwhelmed still?
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Are her manners of any importance or relevance?
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Anyway ... let us get back on topic ... anyone got erudite thoughts regarding the Portuguese Attorney General and the delivery of a was it forty page tome? landing on her desk.
Any one know if she has sent off a letter of thanks to the researchers as yet ... or is she too underwhelmed still?
I’d say the AG was as interested in the tome as SY were on the dodgy dossier.
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Are her manners of any importance or relevance?
To me, that is a matter entirely for her ... but it doe appear to have some importance or relevance as far as the senders are concerned ... else, why bother?
So I take it you like me have no idea if she acknowledged receipt as yet.
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Maybe she's a fan of Elvis.
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To me, that is a matter entirely for her ... but it doe appear to have some importance or relevance as far as the senders are concerned ... else, why bother?
So I take it you like me have no idea if she acknowledged receipt as yet.
"It doesn't matter if it's true as long as people believe it.
Paraphrasing, while searching for the precise comment...
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"It doesn't matter if it's true as long as people believe it.
Paraphrasing, while searching for the precise comment...
Could have been the strap line for the McCanns propaganda campaign.
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Could have been the strap line for the McCanns propaganda campaign.
Would you discount that for Amaral?
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Maybe she's a fan of Elvis.
I doubt if she would be as impolite as to do that ... although in my opinion it would keep twitter et al busy for a while with a new hate figure if she did.
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Could have been the strap line for the McCanns propaganda campaign.
Oh dear! ... I would have been amazed if you hadn't managed to get dig in against Madeleine (in whose aid there is McCann 'propaganda' to which you object) and her family.
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Oh dear! ... I would have been amazed if you hadn't managed to get dig in against Madeleine (in whose aid there is McCann 'propaganda' to which you object) and her family.
Sigh....poor child ! When is she going to stop being sacrificed on the alter of her parent’s reputation ?
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Sigh....poor child ! When is she going to stop being sacrificed on the alter of her parent’s reputation ?
I doubt you really care... Much of the posting here seems more about attacking the parents than really caring for maddie... IMO... But that is the nature of some
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I doubt you really care
I care that any child is used in the way that Madeleine has been.
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I care that any child is used in the way that Madeleine has been.
From what I can see she has been used to vent nastiness on her parents
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Sigh....poor child ! When is she going to stop being sacrificed on the alter of her parent’s reputation ?
Well, Indeed Faith! Now we are to be branded Madeleine [ censored word ]s as well. This will probably be deleted BUT ...
I am not convinced if MBM was abducted from the unlocked apartment and held by a paedophile gang for years would be in any great hurry to hug her parents, after reading how they spent THEIR time while she was missing. After all did she not mention to her parents she wasn't all that keen on being left alone every night or words to that effect? AND didn't the parents ignore her and leave them alone again? yes they did indeed!
Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Posters are reminded that derogatory personal comments and insults are forbidden. TY
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Even if the last photo wasn't taken on the Thursday what difference does it make?
Firstly, it would show that the Mccanns are trying very hard to manipulate Maddie's timeline and the events of the said holiday. It will also prove that the Mccanns Lied.
Funny how the very best photograph was the best of the bunch, just like it was funny how Gerry thought how Beautiful Maddie looked sleeping in her bed. Just like Maddie had the Best Day Ever.
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Firstly, it would show that the Mccanns are trying very hard to manipulate Maddie's timeline and the events of the said holiday. It will also prove that the Mccanns Lied.
Funny how the very best photograph was the best of the bunch, just like it was funny how Gerry thought how Beautiful Maddie looked sleeping in her bed. Just like Maddie had the Best Day Ever.
Was the high tea at the Tapas the best meal ever too?
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Firstly, it would show that the Mccanns are trying very hard to manipulate Maddie's timeline and the events of the said holiday. It will also prove that the Mccanns Lied.
Funny how the very best photograph was the best of the bunch, just like it was funny how Gerry thought how Beautiful Maddie looked sleeping in her bed. Just like Maddie had the Best Day Ever.
What makes you think that it may not have been taken on Thursday?
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What makes you think that it may not have been taken on Thursday?
Have you looked at the time the kids were booked in at creche? I have checked Madeleine was booked in after that time.
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Have you looked at the time the kids were booked in at creche? I have checked Madeleine was booked in after that time.
After what time?
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Firstly, it would show that the Mccanns are trying very hard to manipulate Maddie's timeline and the events of the said holiday. It will also prove that the Mccanns Lied.
Funny how the very best photograph was the best of the bunch, just like it was funny how Gerry thought how Beautiful Maddie looked sleeping in her bed. Just like Maddie had the Best Day Ever.
What is it you find suspicious about the best photo being used, the fact that Gerry thought how beautiful his daughter looked, or that Madeleine had said she'd had her best day ever? What's funny about it?
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What is it you find suspicious about the best photo being used, the fact that Gerry thought how beautiful his daughter looked, or that Madeleine had said she'd had her best day ever? What's funny about it?
I didn’t think it was funny (surprising), just seemed more PR than witness statement.
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I didn’t think it was funny (surprising), just seemed more PR than witness statement.
Do you think expressing love and for your beautiful missing child and remembering wishut uplly what she said can be explained by anything other than a cynical PR opportunity?
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Sigh....poor child ! When is she going to stop being sacrificed on the alter of her parent’s reputation ?
In my opinion Madeleine's parents' reputations are doing just fine outside of a very small contingent whose opinions don't excite too much attention outwith their rather cringe making self promoting stunts the latest being the epistle to Portugal.
In my opinion, none of it from one FOI request to the next has been undertaken with Madeleine McCann's best interests being either considered or taken to heart.
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In my opinion Madeleine's parents' reputations are doing just fine outside of a very small contingent whose opinions don't excite too much attention outwith their rather cringe making self promoting stunts the latest being the epistle to Portugal.
In my opinion, none of it from one FOI request to the next has been undertaken with Madeleine McCann's best interests being either considered or taken to heart.
Perhaps you are right but that’s FOI requests on both sides, none of which are, as you say, ever done in Madeleine’s interests but simply to, hopefully, prove their very narrow points.
As to the McCanns reputation if everything was going as swimmingly as you suggest why the application to the ECHR ? It’s not about ‘damage to the search’ this time as there is now two full-blown investigations being carried out in two countries. So what reason is there other than to save the reputations you seem to believe are doing just fine ?
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Perhaps you are right but that’s FOI requests on both sides, none of which are, as you say, ever done in Madeleine’s interests but simply to, hopefully, prove their very narrow points.
As to the McCanns reputation if everything was going as swimmingly as you suggest why the application to the ECHR ? It’s not about ‘damage to the search’ this time as there is now two full-blown investigations being carried out in two countries. So what reason is there other than to save the reputations you seem to believe are doing just fine ?
It's about righting the wrongs done by amaral... Showing that he did harm the search for maddie... It's too late to be of any use now but the Portuguese justice system needs, to be shown up for the disgrace that it is... All my opinion
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It's about righting the wrongs done by amaral... Showing that he did harm the search for maddie... It's too late to be of any use now but the Portuguese justice system needs, to be shown up for the disgrace that it is... All my opinion
You still here Davel ?
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You still here Davel ?
No I'm in London relaxing in a, hotel before I go out for, dinner
Posted, on the, way down from the train... Kills, time
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You still here Davel ?
As am I and as are you.
But I am about to leave, out for dinner.
You do seem to be stalking Davel. IMO
@)(++(*
Just realised that my post and Davels post will no doubt lead to further the cause that supporters are all known to each other.
For clarification, I am not in London!
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Was the high tea at the Tapas the best meal ever too?
I don't think Maddie herself would be able to answer your question about high tea at the Tapas bar, but if she could she would probably say, I wasn't there Robittybob1.
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http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1pvDvPRaVhgJ:portugalresident.com/attorney-general-receives-%25E2%2580%259Cnew-theory%25E2%2580%259D-over-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Posted by PORTUGALPRESS on March 13, 2018
Attorney General receives “new theory” over disappearance of Madeleine McCann
A team of independent investigators working over the last decade has come up with what it believes happened to Madeleine McCann.
Just as the British Home Office is reported to be considering a new request by Metropolitan Police for the funding of its long-running Operation Grange investigation, the theory has landed on the desk of Portugal’s Attorney General.
It is explosive, it does not work to the accepted timeline, and it does not involve Portuguese gypsies or Eastern European child smugglers.
The objective of the 20-page letter, translated into Portuguese, is to prompt judicial authorities towards a reinvestigation.
Explains one the group’s principal spokespeople - a retired Nottinghamshire police superintendent - “it is important that people follow this logically, and without preconceptions, however shocking the conclusion may seem”.
“There is strong evidence, for example, that the famous Pool Photo was not taken on Thursday 3rd as was claimed.
“Weather reports, personal diaries, and many hundreds of photos on sites such as Flickr show that Thursday lunchtime was overcast and there was a cold Force 4 wind”.
The retired police officer is convinced that the mystery is “a very simple sad story” that for reasons unclear has been hopelessly muddled up.
As to why this may be the case, his response was a prememptory: “No Comment”.
“Any answers I give at this point would be personal opinions not based on facts or knowledge and therefore best avoided”, he said.
“It might be, after all, that the findings have "got through" and that a final answer is just around the corner.
“The last FOI (Freedom of Information) report from Grange stated there had been flights to Portugal in 2017:
“To date there have been 2 return flights to Portugal this year.
“In March three officers flew to Portugal at a total cost of £750 - whilst in May 2 officers flew to Portugal, costs being £500.
“To do WHAT ?
“How many of these had we heard about ?
“And don't forget that the CPS lawyers visited Portugal to speak to counterparts a couple of years ago . . .”
Thus for now, the team that calls itself the Madeleine McCann Research group waits.
The letter was sent on March 6 and has been tracked as having reached its destination.
Said one of the group’s members: “We can only hope the authorities take notice. If our findings get published in the Portuguese media, the authorities might be obliged to make an official statement and it might get reported in the UK.
“And then things finally might be able to move forwards…”
natasha.donn@algarveresident.com
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Presumably Peter Mac (& Amaral's) latest project.
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I won't be satisfied until the Landfill site has been fully searched, let's hope that's on the agenda.
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I don't think Maddie herself would be able to answer your question about high tea at the Tapas bar, but if she could she would probably say, I wasn't there Robittybob1.
It's good to know that there's someone here posting who think Madeleine died days before the 3rd. Are you interested in debating your theory?
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I won't be satisfied until the Landfill site has been fully searched, let's hope that's on the agenda.
How do you propose they would do that after eleven years worth of rubbish had been dumped in it?
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I won't be satisfied until the Landfill site has been fully searched, let's hope that's on the agenda.
Searching the landfill site won't be on the agenda.
It is the sole landfill site for the whole of the western Algarve. It is approaching the 11th anniversary. 11 years of tons and tons of rubbish.
A search is not going to happen.
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Searching the landfill site won't be on the agenda.
It is the sole landfill site for the whole of the western Algarve. It is approaching the 11th anniversary. 11 years of tons and tons of rubbish.
A search is not going to happen.
The bins were checked on 7 May. That would have been the Monday. There's no confirmation as to when they'd been emptied prior to that.
@SIL - do you remember if people from the area could go to the fill to dump stuff by themselves or not?
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It's about righting the wrongs done by amaral... Showing that he did harm the search for maddie... It's too late to be of any use now but the Portuguese justice system needs, to be shown up for the disgrace that it is... All my opinion
It'll be McCanns V Portugal, how will Amaral will involved? still its nearly 11 yrs on and the PJ nor SY can find anything that leads to any other conclusion.Another tranche of brit tax payers money might bring some solace to those who remain ever hopeful.
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How do you propose they would do that after eleven years worth of rubbish had been dumped in it?
I'm not an expert in waste disposal but what I do know is waste disposal sites document what waste goes where. If Maddie was my Child, I would have demanded this be done on the Friday morning, but unfortunately everyone was looking for an abductor.
Not every stone has been turned...
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I'm not an expert in waste disposal but what I do know is waste disposal sites document what waste goes where. If Maddie was my Child, I would have demanded this be done on the Friday morning, but unfortunately everyone was looking for an abductor.
Not every stone has been turned...
Who would you have demanded to do do this in Portugal and when?
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How do you propose they would do that after eleven years worth of rubbish had been dumped in it?
That depends whether its a dump or a landfill in accordance with the The Landfill Directive (99/31/EC).
What ever a few draglines D8s bodies and loads of time will be needed. More if its a dump than if its pukkah landfill.
Feast your eyes:
http://www.advanceddisposal.com/for-mother-earth/education-zone/learn-about-landfills.aspx
But don't be disheartened check out the Neshoba County killings of 1964(?). That was a search.
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The bins were checked on 7 May. That would have been the Monday. There's no confirmation as to when they'd been emptied prior to that.
@SIL - do you remember if people from the area could go to the fill to dump stuff by themselves or not?
I wasn't here in 2007, so my memory is not relevant in that respect.
The process was that the rubbish in Luz was collected, taken to Portelas (N of Lagos), dumped on the ground, transferred by a JCB to a larger lorry and taken to Porto de Lagos, where it was processed.
Processed in this context means checked to remove toxic contaminants etc.
I don't know how secure Porto de Lagos is. But to get a Madeleine-sized body into the landfill, it would require that someone understood the process and had the capacity to bypass it.
Or they fluked it.
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Who would you have demanded to do do this in Portugal and when?
The Portuguese Police, the British Police, Gordon Brown. Gary Ligg a British Police Investigator was on the right tracks, but unfortunately he got side tracked.
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Searching the landfill site won't be on the agenda.
It is the sole landfill site for the whole of the western Algarve. It is approaching the 11th anniversary. 11 years of tons and tons of rubbish.
A search is not going to happen.
Is a search of any description actually happening, rhetorical question.
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Perhaps you are right but that’s FOI requests on both sides, none of which are, as you say, ever done in Madeleine’s interests but simply to, hopefully, prove their very narrow points.
As to the McCanns reputation if everything was going as swimmingly as you suggest why the application to the ECHR ? It’s not about ‘damage to the search’ this time as there is now two full-blown investigations being carried out in two countries. So what reason is there other than to save the reputations you seem to believe are doing just fine ?
The sheer abhorrence of paying out a single brass farthing into the pocket of a man who has defamed them and in doing so could very well have scuppered Madeleine's chances in Portugal where the answer to her disappearance might well lie ... would do it for me.
What Kate and Gerry's thinking on the matter may be I haven't a scooby.
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The sheer abhorrence of paying out a single brass farthing into the pocket of a man who has defamed them and in doing so could very well have scuppered Madeleine's chances in Portugal where the answer to her disappearance might well lie ... would do it for me.
What Kate and Gerry's thinking on the matter may be I haven't a scooby.
Need an IMO in there. Could even be libellous.
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It'll be McCanns V Portugal, how will Amaral will involved? still its nearly 11 yrs on and the PJ nor SY can find anything that leads to any other conclusion.Another tranche of brit tax payers money might bring some solace to those who remain ever hopeful.
No objection to the expenditure of a further tranche of taxpayers money being spent along the lines of the that copied and sent to the Portuguese AG?
Can't you see that some might consider that hypocritical?
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Need an IMO in there. Could even be libellous.
I'm terribly sorry ... do please indicate exactly where you would like your IMO to be placed ... before or after "that would do it for me"?
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No objection to the expenditure of a further tranche of taxpayers money being spent along the lines of the that copied and sent to the Portuguese AG?
Can't you see that some might consider that hypocritical?
I wasn't aware they were using brit's tax money,cite?
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After what time?
2:29 the time of the last photo.
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I'm terribly sorry ... do please indicate exactly where you would like your IMO to be placed ... before or after "that would do it for me"?
Liberally scattered throughout.
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The sheer abhorrence of paying out a single brass farthing into the pocket of a man who has defamed them and in doing so could very well have scuppered Madeleine's chances in Portugal where the answer to her disappearance might well lie ... would do it for me.
What Kate and Gerry's thinking on the matter may be I haven't a scooby.
They still have to pay what they owe.
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They still have to pay what they owe.
It seems as yet they don't
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It seems as yet they don't
Don't or haven't?
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Don't or haven't?
It seems they haven't... And the question is, why..
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Don't or haven't?
A thought.. Amaral has not been paid and has gone very quiet..... Article 8 guarantees, the right to a privarltw life and is one of the few articles that the ECHR can impose an interim judgement...
Could it be argued that the SC ruling has denied Maddie the right to be considered alive... The right to life.. A breach of article 8
Just a thought
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I'm not an expert in waste disposal but what I do know is waste disposal sites document what waste goes where. If Maddie was my Child, I would have demanded this be done on the Friday morning, but unfortunately everyone was looking for an abductor.
Not every stone has been turned...
I'm not the McCanns and I've never had a child go missing for any length of time but I don't think I'd be insisting on a landfill search after 12 hours, I don't think I would be able to bring myself to contemplate such a horrific outcome at that stage.
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Self confessed ..yet ignored by the moderator s
We do allow a little humour here.
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I wasn't aware they were using brit's tax money,cite?
Didn't they send their 'research' to the Brits in the first instance?
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Don't talk silly... John removes most of the personal remarks from fl... You just don't have the backbone
It is not my role to delete posts. Aren't you lucky!
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As a moderator you find the goading of other members of the board humorous? OK, sorry - haha.
As I understand the system every member has the right to report a post that they are offended by. It is too much to look through every post and work out who is being offended. You can all just lighten up a bit.
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Mods, enforce the rules.. What, an absolute joke.. Ha happy
And one of the rules is not picking on the mods.
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So you think her, accusation I don't look after my children is funny..
There is no way I can read every post. If you were offended you report it.
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2:29 the time of the last photo.
Thanks Rob.
The twins were checked in at 2.45 and Madeleine at 2:50
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page119-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page107-CrecheRecords3.jpg
I don't see the problem...
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Thanks Rob.
The twins were checked in at 2.45 and Madeleine at 2:50
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01pages108-118%20[112-120]/processopdf01page119-CrecheRecordsJ.jpg
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page107-CrecheRecords3.jpg
I don't see the problem...
Same here and the shadows on the photo are consistent with a photo at 2:29 too. I can't find fault with the last photo myself either.
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A thought.. Amaral has not been paid and has gone very quiet..... Article 8 guarantees, the right to a privarltw life and is one of the few articles that the ECHR can impose an interim judgement...
Could it be argued that the SC ruling has denied Maddie the right to be considered alive... The right to life.. A breach of article 8
Just a thought
No, it couldn't be argued that the SC ruling has denied Madeleine anything. Unless, of course, you can provide evidence for our consideration?
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No, it couldn't be argued that the SC ruling has denied Madeleine anything. Unless, of course, you can provide evidence for our consideration?
It could be argued that the SC in supporting amarals right to say he can prove maddie is dead is denying her the right to be considered alive
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A thought.. Amaral has not been paid and has gone very quiet..... Article 8 guarantees, the right to a privarltw life and is one of the few articles that the ECHR can impose an interim judgement...
Could it be argued that the SC ruling has denied Maddie the right to be considered alive... The right to life.. A breach of article 8
Just a thought
Or it could be just as simple that the wheels of justice work so slow in Portugal Amaral is in a queue and will be dealt with when its his turn.
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It could be argued that the SC in supporting amarals right to say he can prove maddie is dead is denying her the right to be considered alive
Scotland Yard don't/ can't confirm her to be dead or alive what sort of situation is that? is that denying her that same right.
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Scotland Yard don't/ can't confirm her to be dead or alive what sort of situation is that? is that denying her that same right.
SC have stated clearly there is no evidence of death. Amaral claims he has proof of her death
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SC have stated clearly there is no evidence of death. Amaral claims he has proof of her death
Pardon?
Mark Rowley:
We don't have evidence telling us if Madeleine is alive or dead. It is a missing person’s inquiry but as a team we are realistic about what we might be dealing with - especially as months turn to years.
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Pardon?
Mark Rowley:
Read it again... No evidence of alive or DEATH... yet amaral claims he can prove death
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Didn't they send their 'research' to the Brits in the first instance?
Did they? not a lot to chose between forums then with a member here doing the same I'm led to believe.
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Read it again... No evidence of alive or DEATH... yet amaral claims he can prove death
SY can't confirm if she is alive do they therefore deny her the same right that you protest Amaral's book didn't,did he actually say in his book this? if so relevant passage if you please.
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No, it couldn't be argued that the SC ruling has denied Madeleine anything. Unless, of course, you can provide evidence for our consideration?
It’s a Stan->Loretta right.
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SY can't confirm if she is alive do they therefore deny her the same right that you protest Amaral's book didn't,did he actually say in his book this? if so relevant passage if you please.
Amaral claims in his documentary he can prove maddie died in the, apartment
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Amaral claims in his documentary he can prove maddie died in the, apartment
The McCanns claim in their documentary that Maddie was abducted..... I haven't seen any proof of that.
That makes them even, imo
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It’s a Stan->Loretta right.
Why do you want to be Loretta Stan?
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Why do you want to be Loretta Stan?
Are you the Judean peoples front?
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It could be argued that the SC in supporting amarals right to say he can prove maddie is dead is denying her the right to be considered alive
The SC judgement supported Amaral's right to freedom of speech. It didn't say it agreed with what he said.
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The SC judgement supported Amaral's right to freedom of speech. It didn't say it agreed with what he said.
It supported amarals right to claim Maddie was dead
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It supported amarals right to claim Maddie was dead
It supported his right to express his opinion. It can't be demonstrated that the SC judges agreed with his opinion.
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It supported his right to express his opinion. It can't be demonstrated that the SC judges agreed with his opinion.
It's fascinating that his rights to express an opinion outweighed the missing child's right to be considered alive and findable, and also the rights of her parents not to be defamed in such a cruel manner.
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It supported his right to express his opinion. It can't be demonstrated that the SC judges agreed with his opinion.
It doesn't matter whether they agree with him or not... They supported his right to express his, opinion which the ECHR may well decide violated the human rights of maddie and her parents
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It doesn't matter whether they agree with him or not... They supported his right to express his, opinion which the ECHR may well decide violated the human rights of maddie and her parents
There again they mighten,round and round the mulberry bush.
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It supported amarals right to claim Maddie was dead
It supported his right to express his opinion. It can't be demonstrated that the SC judges agreed with his opinion.
I find both of your points valid.
However, weighing up both, IMO, Madeleine's right to be considered as potentially alive, in the absence of any proof of death, nor even any criminal trial, should have taken precedence over a short-term coordinator's lucrative and prolonged assertions to the contrary.
On the other hand, proving that whatever he said or wrote had a direct influence on public opinion is impossible: a precursor was the multitude of half-baked leaks during his relatively short tenure, but without any proof of who was actually leaking.
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It supported amarals right to claim Maddie was dead
Do you realise how insignificant that sounds? You appear to be suggesting that anyone who claims someone is dead is infringing their rights in some way? Please do elaborate.
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Do you realise how insignificant that sounds? You appear to be suggesting that anyone who claims someone is dead is infringing their rights in some way? Please do elaborate.
If you are convinced that someone is dead because someone once in authority and with a "credibility" factor keeps on repeating it, how many people who took those assertions at face value would remain vigilant?
It may be worth remembering that this lawsuit was filed once the official investigation had been archived, with no ongoing active investigation, either from the UK side, nor the PT side.
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If you are convinced that someone is dead because someone once in authority and with a "credibility" factor keeps on repeating it, how many people who took those assertions at face value would remain vigilant?
It may be worth remembering that this lawsuit was filed once the official investigation had been archived, with no ongoing active investigation, either from the UK side, nor the PT side.
I assume you are meaning the general public?
My question is 'why should they'? Why should parents who lose their children expect other to spend the rest of their lives looking for them?
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I assume you are meaning the general public?
My question is 'why should they'? Why should parents who lose their children expect other to spend the rest of their lives looking for them?
I didn't say that others should spend their lives looking for her, did I?
She hasn't been found - dead or alive.
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I didn't say that others should spend their lives looking for her, did I?
She hasn't been found - dead or alive.
Hide and seek.
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Hide and seek.
Just hide, not much in the way of seek IMO
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Do you realise how insignificant that sounds? You appear to be suggesting that anyone who claims someone is dead is infringing their rights in some way? Please do elaborate.
Writing a book... Going on tv... Professing to have proof of death... And then we have the accusations against her parents
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I'm simply speculating... But is it a human right to be considered alive and findable if there is no real evidence to the lattter..
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I'm simply speculating... But is it a human right to be considered alive and findable if there is no real evidence to the lattter..
In some countries you are considered alive until there has been no proof of being alive for 7 years at which time you can be legally considered dead.
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In some countries you are considered alive until there has been no proof of being alive for 7 years at which time you can be legally considered dead.
Which countries... Certainly not the uk
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Which countries... Certainly not the uk
It was something Mum told me years ago, and I thought it would be similar in the UK. It is a law from memory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declared_death_in_absentia#United_Kingdom > says 7 years.
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It was something Mum told me years ago, and I thought it would be similar in the UK. It is a law from memory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declared_death_in_absentia#United_Kingdom > says 7 years.
Have another look and you will see how the law actually applies
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Have another look and you will see how the law actually applies
Well will the explanation in Wikipedia be good enough?
"A person may be legally declared dead (declared death in absentia or legal presumption of death) despite the absence of direct proof of the person's death, such as the finding of remains (e.g., a corpse or skeleton) attributable to that person. Such a declaration is typically made when a person has been missing for an extended period of time and in the absence of any evidence that the person is still alive – or after a much shorter period but where the circumstances surrounding a person's disappearance overwhelmingly support the belief that the person has died (e.g., an aeroplane crash)."
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Bye Ron &^&*%
Bye Jassi &^&*%
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I'm simply speculating... But is it a human right to be considered alive and findable if there is no real evidence to the lattter..
It may well might be,but SY in saying they have no evidence either way doesn't encourage it.
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Well will the explanation in Wikipedia be good enough?
"A person may be legally declared dead (declared death in absentia or legal presumption of death) despite the absence of direct proof of the person's death, such as the finding of remains (e.g., a corpse or skeleton) attributable to that person. Such a declaration is typically made when a person has been missing for an extended period of time and in the absence of any evidence that the person is still alive – or after a much shorter period but where the circumstances surrounding a person's disappearance overwhelmingly support the belief that the person has died (e.g., an aeroplane crash)."
"May" being the operative word. Why would the parents of a missing 3-year-old child wish to declare her dead?
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"May" being the operative word. Why would the parents of a missing 3-year-old child wish to declare her dead?
It'll be up to the court to decide that if she's still a ward surely.
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"May" being the operative word. Why would the parents of a missing 3-year-old child wish to declare her dead?
Has anyone asked them to do that?
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Has anyone asked them to do that?
Not as far as I know.
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Not as far as I know.
So why suggest it?
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It may well might be,but SY in saying they have no evidence either way doesn't encourage it.
But the Portuguese are
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But the Portuguese are
Are they?
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Are they?
Amaral said he can prove it
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(&^&
Well will the explanation in Wikipedia be good enough?
"A person may be legally declared dead (declared death in absentia or legal presumption of death) despite the absence of direct proof of the person's death, such as the finding of remains (e.g., a corpse or skeleton) attributable to that person. Such a declaration is typically made when a person has been missing for an extended period of time and in the absence of any evidence that the person is still alive – or after a much shorter period but where the circumstances surrounding a person's disappearance overwhelmingly support the belief that the person has died (e.g., an aeroplane crash)."
The court may declare a missing person legally dead but only at the request of a small section of people... Family..
This is for things such as instance payouts... The court cannot do it on it's own and it is not proof of death
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Amaral said he can prove it
Not the Portuguese but a Portuguese person.
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Not the Portuguese but a Portuguese person.
And the Portuguese couRts supported him in saying it
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So why suggest it?
I didn't.
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And the Portuguese couRts supported him in saying it
Supported him because it was Amaral or supported him as a free man exercising his right to freedom of expression with in the rules of Portugal.
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I didn't.
Did you not say ""May" being the operative word. Why would the parents of a missing 3-year-old child wish to declare her dead?"
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Supported him because it was Amaral or supported him as a free man exercising his right to freedom of expression with in the rules of Portugal.
It is the rules of the ECHR that will apply and should have applied
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Did you not say ""May" being the operative word. Why would the parents of a missing 3-year-old child wish to declare her dead?"
It was rob who suggested it. ...Carana was merely commenting on robs post
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"May" being the operative word. Why would the parents of a missing 3-year-old child wish to declare her dead?
We are talking about human rights, weren't we? The right to be thought of alive until declared deceased.
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(&^&
The court may declare a missing person legally dead but only at the request of a small section of people... Family..
This is for things such as instance payouts... The court cannot do it on it's own and it is not proof of death
These could be your opinion but otherwise please provide a cite proving your points.
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These could be your opinion but otherwise please provide a cite proving your points.
No it's, fact... It's been discussed at length before... There, are, several children have in the uk who have been missing for many years.. The, courts, don't and can't just declare them deceased..
What you are, talking about is, a certificate of presumption of death
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No it's, fact... It's been discussed at length before... There, are, several children have in the uk who have been missing for many years.. The, courts, don't and can't just declare them deceased..
What you are, talking about is, a certificate of presumption of death
Thanks for that clarification.
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Thanks for that clarification.
You're welcome
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No it's, fact... It's been discussed at length before... There, are, several children have in the uk who have been missing for many years.. The, courts, don't and can't just declare them deceased..
What you are, talking about is, a certificate of presumption of death
This article explains the purpose "https://www.winstonsolicitors.co.uk/legal-news/presumption-death-act.html"
"The Presumption of Death Act 2013 now provides a solution by allowing families to apply to the High Court for a Certificate of Presumption of Death. This performs the same function as an ordinary death certificate, particularly in areas such as:
Allowing the missing person’s estate to be distributed in accordance with their will or the laws of intestacy
Allowing the dissolution their marriage or Civil Partnership so that their spouse can move on with their life
Finalising the person’s entitlement to any State benefits and settling any overpayments etc from the estate.
The declaration will be made if the Court is satisfied that the person has died or has not been known to be alive for a period of at least seven years.
There is a period after the Order has been made during which an appeal can be lodged, but if no such appeal is lodged, the “deceased’s” details will be entered in a new Register of Presumed Deaths"
Looking at the actual legislation "any person can apply"
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2013/13/section/1/enacted
"1Applying for declaration
(1)This section applies where a person who is missing—
(a)is thought to have died, or
(b)has not been known to be alive for a period of at least 7 years.
(2)Any person may apply to the High Court for a declaration that the missing person is presumed to be dead.
(3)The court has jurisdiction to hear and determine an application under this section only if—
(a)the missing person was domiciled in England and Wales on the day on which he or she was last known to be alive,
(b)the missing person had been habitually resident in England and Wales throughout the period of 1 year ending with that day, or
(c)subsection (4) is satisfied.
(4)This subsection is satisfied if the application is made by the spouse or civil partner of the missing person and—
(a)the applicant is domiciled in England and Wales on the day on which the application is made, or
(b)the applicant has been habitually resident in England and Wales throughout the period of 1 year ending with that day.
(5)The court must refuse to hear an application under this section if—
(a)the application is made by someone other than the missing person’s spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling, and
(b)the court considers that the applicant does not have a sufficient interest in the determination of the application.
(6)This section has effect subject to section 21(2)."
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Before certain people have their next "bright" PR idea...
5)The court must refuse to hear an application under this section if—
(a)the application is made by someone other than the missing person’s spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling, and
(b)the court considers that the applicant does not have a sufficient interest in the determination of the application.
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Before certain people have their next "bright" PR idea...
5)The court must refuse to hear an application under this section if—
(a)the application is made by someone other than the missing person’s spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling, and
(b)the court considers that the applicant does not have a sufficient interest in the determination of the application.
Fair enough too. That condition is linked by the word "and" so the application is not automatically rejected if the application is made by "someone other than the missing person’s spouse, civil partner, parent, child or sibling".
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It's fascinating that his rights to express an opinion outweighed the missing child's right to be considered alive and findable, and also the rights of her parents not to be defamed in such a cruel manner.
He repeated what the investigation said in September 2007, he didn't make it up. Is there a right to be considered to be alive? Which article says that? The McCanns accused him, but failed to prove their case.
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He repeated what the investigation said in September 2007, he didn't make it up. Is there a right to be considered to be alive? Which article says that? The McCanns accused him, but failed to prove their case.
He did make an awful lot of it up IMO . His theory is entirely unsubstantiated imo . If there is not a legally enshrined right to be considered alive then I guess we can all go round claiming anyone we like has actually died the minute they go missing. Save so much money on having to bother looking for them!
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He repeated what the investigation said in September 2007, he didn't make it up. Is there a right to be considered to be alive? Which article says that? The McCanns accused him, but failed to prove their case.
That statement in Sept 2007 was just a matter of opinion, it wasn't fact, because next year the case was archived with no evidence against the McCanns.
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He repeated what the investigation said in September 2007, he didn't make it up. Is there a right to be considered to be alive? Which article says that? The McCanns accused him, but failed to prove their case.
He added things that were not in the files.... Article 8 covers the right to a private life... That's Maddies private life
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He added things that were not in the files.... Article 8 covers the right to a private life... That's Maddies private life
Though they may well have been discussed and accepted in the investigation IMO.
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Though they may well have been discussed and accepted in the investigation IMO.
Celestial teapot...
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Celestial teapot...
I know it was always one of your favourite terms but you appear to have forgotten what it means. Amaral’s book says that it was about what the investigation thought. So that is evidence for you.
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He did make an awful lot of it up IMO . His theory is entirely unsubstantiated imo . If there is not a legally enshrined right to be considered alive then I guess we can all go round claiming anyone we like has actually died the minute they go missing. Save so much money on having to bother looking for them!
He made a lot of it up in your opinion? Is that a wild guess or can you identify these inventions for us?
You posted 'the missing child's right to be considered alive' as if there was such a right. It seems you don't know if such a right exists or not, so an 'imo' should have been used in my opinion.
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He added things that were not in the files.... Article 8 covers the right to a private life... That's Maddies private life
Madeleine's claim was rejected by the judge of the first instance.
27th April 2016
IV. fully dismiss the requests, made in the same action, by the claimants MADELEINE MCCANN, SEAN MICHAEL MCCANN and AMELIE EVE MCCANN against the defendant GONCALO AMARAL and of those claims acquit the defendant.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6307.0
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He made a lot of it up in your opinion? Is that a wild guess or can you identify these inventions for us?
You posted 'the missing child's right to be considered alive' as if there was such a right. It seems you don't know if such a right exists or not, so an 'imo' should have been used in my opinion.
I'd say if someone says "If there is not a legally enshrined right to be considered alive then I guess we can all go round claiming anyone we like has actually died the minute they go missing." That is clearly not an opinion but rather a search for an answer.
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A police force has no right to consider a person dead and can be proven to be dead when the evidence does not support that view... A possible area for an ECHR claim
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I'd say if someone says "If there is not a legally enshrined right to be considered alive then I guess we can all go round claiming anyone we like has actually died the minute they go missing." That is clearly not an opinion but rather a search for an answer.
The opinion I was referring to was expressed in post #557;
"the missing child's right to be considered alive and findable"
posted as if it was a fact that such a right exists.
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The opinion I was referring to was expressed in post #557;
"the missing child's right to be considered alive and findable"
posted as if it was a fact that such a right exists.
So you are of the opinion that right does not exist... The right to be considered alive. If there is no proof to the contrary
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He repeated what the investigation said in September 2007, he didn't make it up. Is there a right to be considered to be alive? Which article says that? The McCanns accused him, but failed to prove their case.
you asked:
Is there a right to be considered to be alive? Not if she is dead- what would be the point? *%87
Which article says that? None. a person cannot legally state they are dead, if they are not,and vice versa.
Ask any insurance company ^*&&
The McCanns accused him, but failed to prove their case.
re this claim for compensation on behalf of MBM from GA. The McCanns would have to prove the child was alive to claim for such monies- because if they claimed, and she turned up dead, then the money would go to????.
As I mentioned at the time. this was a chancers greed at grabbing money on behalf of someone who's mortal state was unknown, and therefore, no judge would grant any claim on their behalf.
Article 8 states that you have to be alive to have a right to a private life...
1. It was her parents who removed that right by taking her on a global media chase...
2. she is having a private life,if alive, because no one knows where she is! and if she is dead then she is certainly having privcacy as no one can find her!
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He did make an awful lot of it up IMO . His theory is entirely unsubstantiated imo . If there is not a legally enshrined right to be considered alive then I guess we can all go round claiming anyone we like has actually died the minute they go missing. Save so much money on having to bother looking for them!
There is nothing wrong in thinking if someone goes missing they may have died in an accident or other reason. KATE LOOKED IN THE BINS in case her daughter was dumped in one!.. ok next.
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A police force has no right to consider a person dead and can be proven to be dead when the evidence does not support that view... A possible area for an ECHR claim
Perhaps you do not understand what the police do. they investigate based on a suspicion of a crime. They gather evidence to the point where they have enough to charge someone. During that time the police can suspect anyone they chose and investigate them.
'Stop and search' is a good way of understanding this.
Also the police can suspect someone but not have ENOUGH evidence to convict someone AND people have been charged with murder without a body being found.
Moors murders as an example.
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Perhaps you do not understand what the police do. they investigate based on a suspicion of a crime. They gather evidence to the point where they have enough to charge someone. During that time the police can suspect anyone they chose and investigate them.
'Stop and search' is a good way of understanding this.
Also the police can suspect someone but not have ENOUGH evidence to convict someone AND people have been charged with murder without a body being found.
Moors murders as an example.
My post refers to the fact that amaral said he can prove maddie is dead... That sounds to me he is denying her the most basic human right
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A police force has no right to consider a person dead and can be proven to be dead when the evidence does not support that view... A possible area for an ECHR claim
Which police force said it could prove anything?
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My post refers to the fact that amaral said he can prove maddie is dead... That sounds to me he is denying her the most basic human right
Yes...
However, dead people do not have human rights. Unless of course they just got some last week. where can I find this out?
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Which police force said it could prove anything?
Amaral said he could prove laddie died in the, apartment and the judges, ruled, what he, claimed came from the investigation
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Yes...
However, dead people do not have human rights. Unless of course they just got some last week. where can I find this out?
But there is, no proof la
Maddie is, dead
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But there is, no proof laddie is, dead
If no one knows her mortal state, then no one can claim her human rights have been violated! so this would come under "no case to answer "UNTIL we find out (if ever) so bit of a moot point there.
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If no one knows her mortal state, then no one can claim her human rights have been violated! so this would come under "no case to answer "UNTIL we find out (if ever) so bit of a moot point there.
If no one knows... Why is amaral claiming proof of her death
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If no one knows... Why is amaral claiming proof of her death
I wasn't talking about GA's claim. I was talking general answer to your question.
He may or may not have proof, either way MBM is not around to take him to court via the human rights act being breached now is she?
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Amaral said he could prove laddie died in the, apartment and the judges, ruled, what he, claimed came from the investigation
Did they? I thought they recognised the distinction between the facts from the investigation and his opinion of what those facts meant?
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I wasn't talking about GA's claim. I was talking general answer to your question.
He may or may not have proof, either way MBM is not around to take him to court via the human rights act being breached now is she?
No but her parents are.... Or as a, Ward of court the uk courts are
Amarals funds, still frozen.. Strange
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Did they? I thought they recognised the distinction between the facts from the investigation and his opinion of what those facts meant?
The Portuguese courts have supported amarals right to promote maddies death
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I wasn't talking about GA's claim. I was talking general answer to your question.
He may or may not have proof, either way MBM is not around to take him to court via the human rights act being breached now is she?
Even if Madeleine is no longer around to take court action, ie deceased, her family can take action on her behalf for violations which occurred during her lifetime (criminal act against her). Such violations include her right to life (article 2 of the ECHR) &, in the event of her death, a full & proper inquest into how she died.
IMO Amaral has declared her dead without either the required proof or the results of a proper inquest.
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Even if Madeleine is no longer around to take court action, ie deceased, her family can take action on her behalf for violations which occurred during her lifetime (criminal act against her). Such violations include her right to life (article 2 of the ECHR) &, in the event of her death, a full & proper inquest into how she died.
IMO Amaral has declared her dead without either the required proof or the results of a proper inquest.
As they don't when she died, how does that work?
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As they don't when she died, how does that work?
In the UK, that's where the Coroner comes in. I don't know if it's the same in Portugal but I would hope it is.
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/guidance-no-18-investigation-without-body.pdf
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So you are of the opinion that right does not exist... The right to be considered alive. If there is no proof to the contrary
Why not just quote the article from the convention?
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Why not just quote the article from the convention?
It isn't that simple and that's, why I have not claimed it as fact... Defamation is, covered by article 8 but it is not mentioned in the convention.. Could be article 2.. Right to life... What's interesting is, that interim measures, are, allowed under 2 and 8....and, amaral has gone awfully quiet....
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It isn't that simple and that's, why I have not claimed it as fact... Defamation is, covered by article 8 but it is not mentioned in the convention.. Could be article 2.. Right to life... What's interesting is, that interim measures, are, allowed under 2 and 8....and, amaral has gone awfully quiet....
The Court will only issue an interim measure against a Member State where, having reviewed all the relevant information, it considers that the applicant faces a real risk of serious, irreversible harm if the measure is not applied.
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If maddie is still alive.. Any delay in finding her... Caused by the SCs support of amarals theory could damage the search and therefore be a threat to her life
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As they don't when she died, how does that work?
For the moment, it's not clear if she died or not.
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As they don't when she died, how does that work?
You make the point that sine [some] have been convinced of her death by what they have read
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If maddie is still alive.. Any delay in finding her... Caused by the SCs support of amarals theory could damage the search and therefore be a threat to her life
That would be a very hard point to argue when there are two full scale investigation taking place as we speak.
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That would be a very hard point to argue when there are two full scale investigation taking place as we speak.
The most important point is cooperation from the people of Portugal but they have mostly been convinced that maddie us dead... So it's not a, hard point to argue
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There is nothing wrong in thinking if someone goes missing they may have died in an accident or other reason. KATE LOOKED IN THE BINS in case her daughter was dumped in one!.. ok next.
It is definitely an option to be considered seriously.
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It is definitely an option to be considered seriously.
No one is, saying death is not a, possibility but amaral wants to tell people it's, a certainty.. Imo
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The Portuguese courts have supported amarals right to promote maddies death
They decided that he was entitled to give his opinion.
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They decided that he was entitled to give his opinion.
The ruling was not about giving an opinion in general... It referred to this particular opinion..
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The ruling was not about giving an opinion in general... It referred to this particular opinion..
When was it an opinion and when is it presented as fact? Personally I was surprised they (SC Judges) allowed his book and the video to be considered an opinion, when I'm sure I heard him (GA) say it was a fact.
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The most important point is cooperation from the people of Portugal but they have mostly been convinced that maddie us dead... So it's not a, hard point to argue
I think the McCanns tried to argue that the book damaged the search for Madeleine, but they failed to prove it.
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He made a lot of it up in your opinion? Is that a wild guess or can you identify these inventions for us?
You posted 'the missing child's right to be considered alive' as if there was such a right. It seems you don't know if such a right exists or not, so an 'imo' should have been used in my opinion.
Well for a start he states in his conclusion as a fact that Madeleine died in the apartment.
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Yes...
However, dead people do not have human rights. Unless of course they just got some last week. where can I find this out?
I may be wrong but in Portugal dead people have the right not to be libelled, believe it or not!
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Well for a start he states in his conclusion as a fact that Madeleine died in the apartment.
GA wouldn't last long on the UKJ forum
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I may be wrong but in Portugal dead people have the right not to be libelled, believe it or not!
Shame the living don't appear to enjoy the same protection as the dead 8)-)))
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I once made a comment that half the population are of below, average intelligence and it was deleted
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I once made a comment that half the population are of below, average intelligence and it was deleted
Someone was looking after you.
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Someone was looking after you.
No rob... It's a basic fact... Think about it... Half the population... Below average... Don't say you don't understand the little joke
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Half the population are below average height too
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No rob... It's a basic fact... Think about it... Half the population... Below average... Don't say you don't understand the little joke
Is that applied maths? I need more sleep.
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Is that applied maths? I need more sleep.
No it's simple.. But too difficult for some on here to undetstand
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I once made a comment that half the population are of below, average intelligence and it was deleted
haha! But surely it is a politically incorrect observation, particularly on an internet forum where it's a well known fact that everyone who posts is a certified genius.
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haha! But surely it is a politically incorrect observation, particularly on an internet forum where it's a well known fact that everyone who posts is a certified genius.
its only politically incorrect to those who do not undersatnd the simple maths involved
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Is that applied maths? I need more sleep.
surprisingly half are above average intelligence
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I may be wrong but in Portugal dead people have the right not to be libelled, believe it or not!
Well please explain how a dead person woud know they are being libelled,AND how they would go about comminicating this.
That is very interesting becau didn't the McCanns 'sauces; calim that a dying known paedophile was THE guy in the know? and what about the other dead guy.... oh yeah it is always the dead guys who are involved ...
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I may be wrong but in Portugal dead people have the right not to be libelled, believe it or not!
Yes.
Criminal defamation - Portugal
Also problematic is Art. 185, which punishes “seriously
offending” the dead with up to six months in prison,
which sets a staggering 50-year limitations period for
filing claims.
https://ipi.media/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/PortugalCriminalDef_IPI_ENG.pdf
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Yes.
Criminal defamation - Portugal
Also problematic is Art. 185, which punishes “seriously
offending” the dead with up to six months in prison,
which sets a staggering 50-year limitations period for
filing claims.
https://ipi.media/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/PortugalCriminalDef_IPI_ENG.pdf
Thanks for that Carana, the point I was making was IF MBM was libelled how would she know this and how would this affect her if she is dead?
Suspecting someone is dead is not libel. or offensive.
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No rob... It's a basic fact... Think about it... Half the population... Below average... Don't say you don't understand the little joke
Which average are you using?
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surprisingly half are above average intelligence
I went back to sleep pondering this question, and you are wrong. There will be a lot of people who are the average height maybe 10% so only 90% will be above and below the average height. So there is a fair chance it won't be 50% either side.
Same for intelligence.
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My post refers to the fact that amaral said he can prove maddie is dead... That sounds to me he is denying her the most basic human right
Could he have made a big mistake there (alternatively a mighty imagination or telling porkies to beef up his case ) ?
Unless he was there, OR has evidence that he hasn't shared, he cannot KNOW whether Madeleine is dead or alive.
The dogs didn't prove anything. Nothing there to show whether Madeleine is dead or alive FACT
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Which average are you using?
It's patently obvious
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I went back to sleep pondering this question, and you are wrong. There will be a lot of people who are the average height maybe 10% so only 90% will be above and below the average height. So there is a fair chance it won't be 50% either side.
Same for intelligence.
You are not using the exact average height or intelligence... You are rounding it off... In reality it would be unlikely that anyone is the exact average...
It's a little joke.... Some thought it was offensive but in reality it's just an observation
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When was it an opinion and when is it presented as fact? Personally I was surprised they (SC Judges) allowed his book and the video to be considered an opinion, when I'm sure I heard him (GA) say it was a fact.
Yes, he said that he could PROVE that Madeleine was dead. We had a discussion about it on another forum
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Yes, he said that he could PROVE that Madeleine was dead. We had a discussion about it on another forum
If he proved it then it would be a fact, prior to that it is a prediction. There is obviously a better term.
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You are not using the exact average height or intelligence... You are rounding it off... In reality it would be unlikely that anyone is the exact average...
It's a little joke.... Some thought it was offensive but in reality it's just an observation
Don't worry.
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Don't worry.
I'm not at all worried
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I'm not at all worried
I was thinking someone with above average IQ but below average height.
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I was thinking someone with above average IQ but below average height.
Bearing in mind that IQ and intelligence are not the same thing.
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Wonder if members would like to consider directing their thoughts in the direction of the thread topic. Please do, t y.
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It's patently obvious
No it isn’t? It leads to different answers.
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No it isn’t? It leads to different answers.
do you not understand the word average
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do you not understand the word average
Yes, it’s fairly obvious you don’t.
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Yes, it’s fairly obvious you don’t.
I do...but I think my post would have lost its edge if I had referred to the arithmetic mean...I used the term most understand
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I do...but I think my post would have lost its edge if I had referred to the arithmetic mean...I used the term most understand
If you meant arithmetic mean then you would probably be wrong.
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If you meant arithmetic mean then you would probably be wrong.
I don't really care... It doesn't affect the point I was making... Perhaps you should start a thread on averages
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I don't really care... It doesn't affect the point I was making... Perhaps you should start a thread on averages
It just shows that throw away remarks can often be flawed.
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It just shows that throw away remarks can often be flawed.
It wasn't a throw away remark.... It was a little lighthearted entertainment... And it wasn't flawed
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So, anyway, those tapas doctors are allegedly intelligent and yet look at the stupidity in their decision-making regarding their children's safety. The arithmetic and averages are just a deflection away from the thread.
Davel has no 'evidence' of an intruder/abductor. IF he had, he would have given it to the OG or PJ. Or if he was shy he could just say it in this open room and someone else could pass it on ,on his behalf. However, we can only just read he BELIEVES the McCanns story.
Again repeating: there IS no evidence of an intruder. No Eye witness of abductor leaving the apartment with MBM through a window.
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So, anyway, those tapas doctors are allegedly intelligent and yet look at the stupidity in their decision-making regarding their children's safety. The arithmetic and averages are just a deflection away from the thread.
Davel has no 'evidence' of an intruder/abductor. IF he had, he would have given it to the OG or PJ. Or if he was shy he could just say it in this open room and someone else could pass it on ,on his behalf. However, we can only just read he BELIEVES the McCanns story.
Again repeating: there IS no evidence of an intruder. No Eye witness of abductor leaving the apartment with MBM through a window.
What is this thread about?
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What is this thread about?
The diffference between mean, average and median?
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The diffference between mean, average and median?
There are only 2 f's in difference!
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There are only 2 f's in difference!
Indeed and two ds in haddock two ls in pollack, two rs in herring but no f in cod.... 8(0(*
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Indeed and two ds in haddock two ls in pollack, two rs in herring but no f in cod.... 8(0(*
I spell cod with an F.
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Oh it was,
.
Do you understand what humour is...
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Bearing in mind that IQ and intelligence are not the same thing.
You are wrong about that. In fact, IQ and knowledge are not the same thing.
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You are wrong about that. In fact, IQ and knowledge are not the same thing.
Can We Stop Confusing IQ With Intelligence?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201212/can-we-stop-confusing-iq-intelligence
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Can We Stop Confusing IQ With Intelligence?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201212/can-we-stop-confusing-iq-intelligence
From "Mainstream Science on Intelligence" (1994), an op-ed statement in the Wall Street Journal signed by fifty-two researchers (out of 131 total invited to sign):[6]
A very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings—"catching on," "making sense" of things, or "figuring out" what to do.[7]
intelligent people tend to have a high IQ...the terms may not be the same but are closely related
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Can We Stop Confusing IQ With Intelligence?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201212/can-we-stop-confusing-iq-intelligence
I tend to think of it as a tripod, intelligence, knowledge and common sense. High performing people have those associated with social skills.
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I tend to think of it as a tripod, intelligence, knowledge and common sense. High performing people have those associated with social skills.
Very intelligent people don't always have good social skills..IQ is a good test of intelligence
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Can We Stop Confusing IQ With Intelligence?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201212/can-we-stop-confusing-iq-intelligence
IQ is Intelligence. It is not Knowledge.
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Very intelligent people don't always have good social skills..IQ is a good test of intelligence
That’s why I said high performing people, not just those with intelligence or knowledge or common sense.
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IQ is Intelligence. It is not Knowledge.
and IQ measures intelligence
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Very intelligent people don't always have good social skills..IQ is a good test of intelligence
A good test of intelligence in my opinion is whether people are willing to look at all the evidence. It's been known for quite some time that there are aspects of intelligence which IQ tests don't measure;
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/9755929/IQ-tests-do-not-reflect-intelligence.html
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A good test of intelligence in my opinion is whether people are willing to look at all the evidence. It's been known for quite some time that there are aspects of intelligence which IQ tests don't measure;
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/9755929/IQ-tests-do-not-reflect-intelligence.html
poeple who are intelligent do look and understand the evidence...you stated that it was grimes opinion that cadaver triggered the alert...you are patently wrong...so by your own definition...where does that place your level of intelligence
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poeple who are intelligent do look and understand the evidence...you stated that it was grimes opinion that cadaver triggered the alert...you are patently wrong...so by your own definition...where does that place your level of intelligence
My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
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My professional opinion as regards to the EVRD's alert indications is that it is
suggestive that this is 'cadaver scent' contaminant.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm
thats right he said its suggestive...he didnt say cadaver odour triggered ther alert as you did...can you still not see your mistake
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https://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/19/health/iq-score-meaning/index.html
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https://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/19/health/iq-score-meaning/index.html
an IQ test is ameasure of intelligence...but it has limitations...it is still a very good indication
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an IQ test is ameasure of intelligence...but it has limitations...it is still a very good indication
What about the connection to slow learning?
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What about the connection to slow learning?
in what way.....I quite understand children develop at different rates
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poeple who are intelligent do look and understand the evidence...you stated that it was grimes opinion that cadaver triggered the alert...you are patently wrong...so by your own definition...where does that place your level of intelligence
People who are intelligent don’t spell people poeple @)(++(*
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People who are intelligent don’t spell people poeple @)(++(*
How would you know
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and IQ measures intelligence
Intelligence is gifted. Knowledge is hard gained. My IQ is way above average and not far-off genius, but I grossly lack Knowledge, which grieves me greatly. But then I have the intelligence to know this. I never had access to an Education being a frightfully working class girl, on whom education was not to be wasted.
Actually, I don't think it matters anymore. I earned quite a lot of money cleaning the lavatories of other people in the process of paying School Fees for my children, none of whom have the faintest idea of what I did, or why. But I bet that all three of them have a greater IQ than I. At least I do hope so. Or do I? I suppose that it can only matter to them.
I do think that IQ is related to Common Bleeding Sense, and or the ability to rationalise.
I am quietly proud of my IQ, albeit nothing to do with me personally. It was a gift for which I am truly grateful.
And this is why I know that the chances of The McCanns being involved in the disappearance of their daughter are way below zero. Just plain Logistics. It simply was not possible.
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an IQ test is ameasure of intelligence...but it has limitations...it is still a very good indication
It is like any other tool or measuring device. In the hands of those who know what they are at it can useful. In the hands of those who don't know what they are at it is NBG.
Brummagem Screwdriver syndrome.
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People who are intelligent don’t spell people poeple @)(++(*
That can't be true.
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It is like any other tool or measuring device. In the hands of those who know what they are at it can useful. In the hands of those who don't know what they are at it is NBG.
Brummagem Screwdriver syndrome.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-bru2.htm
"In the nineteenth century, great quantities of cheap plated goods, such as trinkets and gilt jewellery, were being made in Birmingham. As a result, its bad reputation resurfaced, so much so that its old name came to be used figuratively for anything that was considered tawdry, not just items of Birmingham manufacture.
An example is in a work of 1862, The Reminiscences of Captain Gronow: “The equipages were generally much more gorgeous than at a later period, when democracy invaded the parks, and introduced what may be termed a ‘brummagem society,’ with shabby-genteel carriages and servants”. The short form Brummy was taken to Australia and has remained a term of insult for something poorly made or falsely showy. The city’s workmen were thought to be clumsy and unskilled, hence a Brummagem screwdriver was a hammer (an insult that has been applied to several other places and nationalities as well).
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and IQ measures intelligence
That is all that it does. And it is a great thing. But there is a bit more to life in general.
I am only grateful.
Ah Ha, this little working class tart has the IQ not far off Einstein. And then what do you do? You do shit jobs very well because you don't have the education to do any better.
But at least you don't accuse without thought.
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Natasha Donn reported that ...
" ... a new thesis on the mystery - only last month mailed to Portugal’s Attorney General in the hope that it might change the status quo - appears to have fallen on stony ground.
The theory, developed over the years by a number of professionals - including a former British police superintendent - challenges the starting point of Grange, which has consistently run-up against claims that its remit is far too narrow and that the £11 million and rising spent on it this far has been “an expensive farce”."
http://portugalresident.com/maddie-cops-get-yet-more-cash-to-continue-investigate-%E2%80%9Cfinal-line-of-enquiry%E2%80%9D
Oh dear ~ never mind ... maybe the Attorney General has a clearer insight than they imagine into the ongoing work of the Policia Judiciaria which is far better informed than the prejudices of sleuths apparently professionals of one sort or another, who obviously labour under the mistaken belief she has any locus whatsoever in the work of Operation Grange.
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Natasha Donn reported that ...
" ... a new thesis on the mystery - only last month mailed to Portugal’s Attorney General in the hope that it might change the status quo - appears to have fallen on stony ground.
The theory, developed over the years by a number of professionals - including a former British police superintendent - challenges the starting point of Grange, which has consistently run-up against claims that its remit is far too narrow and that the £11 million and rising spent on it this far has been “an expensive farce”."
http://portugalresident.com/maddie-cops-get-yet-more-cash-to-continue-investigate-%E2%80%9Cfinal-line-of-enquiry%E2%80%9D
Oh dear ~ never mind ... maybe the Attorney General has a clearer insight than they imagine into the ongoing work of the Policia Judiciaria which is far better informed than the prejudices of sleuths apparently professionals of one sort or another, who obviously labour under the mistaken belief she has any locus whatsoever in the work of Operation Grange.
IMO Maybe in 6 months time when the funds run out, and the UK police are no longer actively investigating the case the Portuguese might look at it. I don't think there will be any real desire to upset the relationship between the two police forces while the current arrangement is in place.
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IMO Maybe in 6 months time when the funds run out, and the UK police are no longer actively investigating the case the Portuguese might look at it. I don't think there will be any real desire to upset the relationship between the two police forces while the current arrangement is in place.
No... The dossier is total rubbish IMO
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Natasha Donn reported that ...
" ... a new thesis on the mystery - only last month mailed to Portugal’s Attorney General in the hope that it might change the status quo - appears to have fallen on stony ground.
The theory, developed over the years by a number of professionals - including a former British police superintendent - challenges the starting point of Grange, which has consistently run-up against claims that its remit is far too narrow and that the £11 million and rising spent on it this far has been “an expensive farce”."
http://portugalresident.com/maddie-cops-get-yet-more-cash-to-continue-investigate-%E2%80%9Cfinal-line-of-enquiry%E2%80%9D
Oh dear ~ never mind ... maybe the Attorney General has a clearer insight than they imagine into the ongoing work of the Policia Judiciaria which is far better informed than the prejudices of sleuths apparently professionals of one sort or another, who obviously labour under the mistaken belief she has any locus whatsoever in the work of Operation Grange.
I wonder whether in the spirit of cooperation the Portuguese shared this information with their British colleagues?
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I wonder whether in the spirit of cooperation the Portuguese shared this information with their British colleagues?
The British have already received it IMO
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Warning to all posters:
As we approach the Easter weekend I want to make it very clear that continued disruptive behaviour will NOT be tolerated, sanctions will be applied where necessary. As a sign of goodwill however ahead of the holidays, I am revoking all warning points.
Moderators are expected to lead by example but should those moderating skills fall short of what is expected, permissions will be revoked.
Have a great Easter everyone but please keep the above in mind before commenting.
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Thanks for that reminder, Byron.
Clarification about the article in the newspaper The People, of August 17, 2008
The information published today by the newspaper The People, concerning myself, are false. In the days between the 9th and 15th of August, I was contacted by and have met with several British journalists (*), at their request, about the witness who claimed to have seen Madeleine McCann, in Brussels, and about the article published by myself and Paulo Reis, about the existence of 24 photos, taken the night of May 3rd, by tourists who were in the Tapas Bar.
My help had been asked, by these colleagues, because, besides the fact that they did not speak French, they did not know Brussels, did not know where and to towards whom to turn to investigate the case of the witness who claimed to have seen Madeleine.
As it the custom amongst professional colleagues, I have met with these journalists and I've helped in everything that has been possible for me. As is obvious, we have talked about the Madeleine McCann case, about the information published recently in my blog and in the blog of my colleague Paulo Reis, we exchanged our impressions and comments. I will not reproduce the comments of my English colleagues, because private conversations are private conversations - at least, for principled people.
So that it is clear: I have not, in my possession, no part (evidence) that would be of interest to the authorities or could concern the investigation of a crime.
Duarte Levy
August 17, 2008
(*) Nick Fagge & Jonathan Buckmaster - Daily Express / Lucy Hagan - The Sun / Julie (?) Daily Mail / Emily Miller - The Mirror / James Millbank - The People (14 and 15 August)
Published on Paulo's blog:
https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/duarte-levy-and-people-story.html
There was another post, after this one, where I clarified my position about Mr. Levy. I stoped witihg about for the case, for more than two months, while I analysed all stories we signed togheter. I made two mistakes, as a journalist, writing about the case: the 24 pictures and a wrong information about who was the father of Gerry McCan. I apologized for this second mistake, apologies where accepted by the family of the former MP who I said was Gerry's father. I cut all contacts with Mr. Levy. Un til noe, I think he was somebody with a specific mission - to get the trust of the Portuguese bloggers who wrote in Englsh about the case. I also think his "handlers" lost control of him and he started to act by himself, as some kind of "rogue spy"...
https://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2009/07/credibility-and-journalism.html
Thursday, 9 July 2009
Credibility and journalism
As a journalist since 1982, I always did my best to check and confirm, with several and reliable sources, all facts and information in the articles I published, either alone or co-authored. Serious allegations were raised by Joana Morais, a blogger that I know and respect, concerning the credibility of Mr. Duarte Levy, with whom I co-authored many articles about Madeleine Mccann's investigation.
My credibility is also seriously damaged, due to my association with him. A journalist's credibility takes a long time to build but it's a fragile thing. A single mistake is enough to destroy it. Once lost, it's almost impossible to have it back. So, I decided to stop writing about this case.
Time – and the persistent work of so many people, in hundreds of blogs and dozens of forums, analyzing the large amount of information available – will show what is truth and what is not truth. In the end, I believe, truth will prevail – and that is the most important.