UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Myths => Topic started by: John on May 02, 2013, 02:10:10 AM
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Myth #6 - Cadaver scenting dogs only react to human blood and corpses.
Wrong! These dogs react to many other substances.
Putrescine, or tetramethylenediamine, is a foul-smelling organic chemical compound NH2(CH2)4NH2 (1,4-diaminobutane or butanediamine) that is related to cadaverine; both are produced by the breakdown of amino acids in living and dead organisms and both are toxic in large doses. The two compounds are largely responsible for the foul odor of putrefying flesh, but also contribute to the odor of such processes as bad breath and bacterial vaginosis. They are also found in semen and some microalgae, together with related molecules like spermine and spermidine.
Cadaverine is a foul-smelling compound produced by protein hydrolysis during putrefaction of animal tissue. Cadaverine is a toxic diamine with the formula NH2(CH2)5NH2, which is similar to putrescine. Cadaverine is also known by the names 1,5-pentanediamine and pentamethylenediamine. However, this diamine is not purely associated with putrefaction. It is also produced in small quantities by living beings. It is partially responsible for the distinctive odors of urine.
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Very true. However, the main interest in the dogs' reactions for me was that (unless we are dealing with another forum myth) they reacted only in one particular flat, and to one particular car, and to certain other linked particular sites and objects, and not to all the other possibilities, despite the fact that they were trotted around all over the place.
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Very true. However, the main interest in the dogs' reactions for me was that (unless we are dealing with another forum myth) they reacted only in one particular flat, and to one particular car, and to certain other linked particular sites and objects, and not to all the other possibilities, despite the fact that they were trotted around all over the place.
What do you think they reacted to, comperedna? Have you read the full reports?
Any ideas on why Kate and Gerry weren't even arrested, never mind charged or convicted of anything?
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I detect a certain amount of "smoke and mirrors" over these two dogs. It is a fact that they are the best two canines in the world at what they do and that is undisputed.
As to a dog reacting to "other substances", it depends on their training and natural ability. For instance, a bloodhound will track one individuals scent to the total exclusion of anything else.
As a previous poster says, Eddie and Leela ONLY reacted to things relevant to the McCanns and nothing else. Quite a few of the substances referred to by John would be common in the other properties visited but it raised not a whimper in these two dogs. So no, what the dogs found is far from being a myth.
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I detect a certain amount of "smoke and mirrors" over these two dogs. It is a fact that they are the best two canines in the world at what they do and that is undisputed.
As to a dog reacting to "other substances", it depends on their training and natural ability. For instance, a bloodhound will track one individuals scent to the total exclusion of anything else.
As a previous poster says, Eddie and Leela ONLY reacted to things relevant to the McCanns and nothing else. Quite a few of the substances referred to by John would be common in the other properties visited but it raised not a whimper in these two dogs. So no, what the dogs found is far from being a myth.
That's just it...what did they find because frankly nobody knows??
Welcome to the forum by the way.
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Myth #6 - Cadaver scenting dogs only react to human blood and corpses.
Wrong! These dogs react to many other substances.
Putrescine, or tetramethylenediamine, is a foul-smelling organic chemical compound NH2(CH2)4NH2 (1,4-diaminobutane or butanediamine) that is related to cadaverine; both are produced by the breakdown of amino acids in living and dead organisms and both are toxic in large doses. The two compounds are largely responsible for the foul odor of putrefying flesh, but also contribute to the odor of such processes as bad breath and bacterial vaginosis. They are also found in semen and some microalgae, together with related molecules like spermine and spermidine.
Cadaverine is a foul-smelling compound produced by protein hydrolysis during putrefaction of animal tissue. Cadaverine is a toxic diamine with the formula NH2(CH2)5NH2, which is similar to putrescine. Cadaverine is also known by the names 1,5-pentanediamine and pentamethylenediamine. However, this diamine is not purely associated with putrefaction. It is also produced in small quantities by living beings. It is partially responsible for the distinctive odors of urine.
Eddie did not react to 'many' other substances as a Cadaver/EVRD dog. His original training was to detect blood and latterly to detect cadaver scent which was why he and Keela were used in tandem.
To explain: If EVRD/Blood dog Eddie alerted then CSI Blood dog Keela was brought in to check & if she too alerted it meant blood detected. If Keela did not alert it meant eddie had alerted to cadaver scent.
Eddie was not trained using cadaverine during his cadaver training but was trained on pigs and human cadavers. He was trained to exclude (deconditioned to) the scent of human urine, faeces, and semen and would not alert on residual scent from a live human; and was never trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.
Research from March 2013 blows the myth that Eddie possibly alerted to urine, bad breath, semen or other substances out of the water.
The following is sourced from https://ir.library.dc-uoit.ca/bitstream/10155/315/1/Stadler_Sonja.pdf and is further supported here http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0039005
Cadaverine and putrescine are products of amino acid breakdown and were previously thought to be the main contributors of decomposition odour. It was also beleived that these volatile compounds are a target for cadaver dogs. However research into the VOCs produced by pig and human decomposition was UNABLE to identify these two diamines. This casts doubt on the importance of putrescine and cadaverine as key components in decomposition odour.
Both the reports referenced above are a very enlightening read and I am sure once John has also read them he will agree that this subject needs removing from the Myths section.
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Eddie did not react to 'many' other substances as a Cadaver/EVRD dog. His original training was to detect blood and latterly to detect cadaver scent which was why he and Keela were used in tandem.
To explain: If EVRD/Blood dog Eddie alerted then CSI Blood dog Keela was brought in to check & if she too alerted it meant blood detected. If Keela did not alert it meant eddie had alerted to cadaver scent.
Eddie was not trained using cadaverine during his cadaver training but was trained on pigs and human cadavers. He was trained to exclude (deconditioned to) the scent of human urine, faeces, and semen and would not alert on residual scent from a live human; and was never trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.
Research from March 2013 blows the myth that Eddie possibly alerted to urine, bad breath, semen or other substances out of the water.
The following is sourced from https://ir.library.dc-uoit.ca/bitstream/10155/315/1/Stadler_Sonja.pdf and is further supported here http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0039005
Cadaverine and putrescine are products of amino acid breakdown and were previously thought to be the main contributors of decomposition odour. It was also beleived that these volatile compounds are a target for cadaver dogs. However research into the VOCs produced by pig and human decomposition was UNABLE to identify these two diamines. This casts doubt on the importance of putrescine and cadaverine as key components in decomposition odour.
Both the reports referenced above are a very enlightening read and I am sure once John has also read them he will agree that this subject needs removing from the Myths section.
Finally......some more relevant facts.....
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If , as you say, this could be caused by vaginosis or semen, who was doing what behind the sofa?
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Who was doing what with that little red t shirt?
Who was doing what in the carboot?
Who was doing what in the wardrobe?
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Eddie did not react to 'many' other substances as a Cadaver/EVRD dog. His original training was to detect blood and latterly to detect cadaver scent which was why he and Keela were used in tandem.
To explain: If EVRD/Blood dog Eddie alerted then CSI Blood dog Keela was brought in to check & if she too alerted it meant blood detected. If Keela did not alert it meant eddie had alerted to cadaver scent.
Eddie was not trained using cadaverine during his cadaver training but was trained on pigs and human cadavers. He was trained to exclude (deconditioned to) the scent of human urine, faeces, and semen and would not alert on residual scent from a live human; and was never trained to locate any scent other than that of decomposed human tissue.
Research from March 2013 blows the myth that Eddie possibly alerted to urine, bad breath, semen or other substances out of the water.
The following is sourced from https://ir.library.dc-uoit.ca/bitstream/10155/315/1/Stadler_Sonja.pdf and is further supported here http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0039005
Cadaverine and putrescine are products of amino acid breakdown and were previously thought to be the main contributors of decomposition odour. It was also beleived that these volatile compounds are a target for cadaver dogs. However research into the VOCs produced by pig and human decomposition was UNABLE to identify these two diamines. This casts doubt on the importance of putrescine and cadaverine as key components in decomposition odour.
Both the reports referenced above are a very enlightening read and I am sure once John has also read them he will agree that this subject needs removing from the Myths section.
That has given me plenty of reading tonight .....Great breakthrough!
Eddie was used in the Adrian Prout case to convict him of his wifes murder http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=61.msg27005#msg27005