A three-year-old boy has disappeared from his home in Edinburgh. His parents last seen him at 9pm last night and when they checked him this morning he was gone.
If he can do it Madeleine McCann who was nearly 4 and precocious could certainly do it.
A three-year-old boy has disappeared from his home in Edinburgh. His parents last seen him at 9pm last night and when they checked him this morning he was gone.
If he can do it Madeleine McCann who was nearly 4 and precocious could certainly do it.
These stories have a nasty habit of turning into something much more sinister.
What do you mean by that?
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/260526-police-in-edinburgh-searching-for-mikael-kular-missing-from-ferry-gait/
I hope he is found quickly...you would be surprised at how many stories there are about toddlers just walking out of the house but they are normally found fairly quickly
To be thought to be possibly wearing a jacket and shoes...where was the little mite going?
Fingers crossed he is found quickly
Things aren't always as they first appear. He may have been assisted in his disappearance.
What do you mean by that?
I mean he was fully dressed yet was allegedly put to bed in his night clothes. Toddlers wandering are usually found within half an hour. This sounds like something else.
Ditto.
If the boy got out by himself, then I wonder if the door was locked.
Where are you getting that he was fully dressed?
I mean he was fully dressed yet was allegedly put to bed in his night clothes. Toddlers wandering are usually found within half an hour. This sounds like something else.
Media already talking sinister instead of innocuous.
Police
It doesn't say he was fully dressed didn't you read it properly john ?
Mikael was described as being 3ft tall and possibly wearing a beige hooded jacket, brown shoes and nightwear.
Fully dressed...not appropriately dressed. Our info comes from source...not media.
Apartment from which he disappeared shows no signs of a break in.
Does have that hinky feeling about it all in all taking into account what we are told so far....
More
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/search-for-missing-edinburgh-child-mikaeel-kular-1-3270466
Fantastic response from the police. The helicopter was in the air and door to doors were being conducted within minutes of him being reported missing.
Fantastic response from the police. The helicopter was in the air and door to doors were being conducted within minutes of him being reported missing.
It doesn't say he was fully dressed didn't you read it properly john ?
Mikael was described as being 3ft tall and possibly wearing a beige hooded jacket, brown shoes and nightwear.
According to Police Superintendant Liz McAinch who is heading up the enquiry, Mikaeel's beige hooded jacket, brown Clarkes shoes and his blue jogging bottoms are missing. She also said that his parent's are not living together, only Mikaeel's mum and his 4 siblings, including his twin sister live at the address from where he has gone missing. They are planning on speaking to all members of his family and would not be drawn on whether they had yet spoken to the little boy's father.
Media is reporting that neighbours and friends are suggesting that there are ongoing custody issues.
I just hope that whatever has happened, that he is found safe and well soon.
Ah, well...what a surprise but that is good regarding his safety
These stories have a nasty habit of turning into something much more sinister.
My thoughts too, do toddlers often get dressed at night & go for walks outside?
Does the father live with the family? I haven't heard yet, that's where I'd look.
My thoughts too, do toddlers often get dressed at night & go for walks outside?
Does the father live with the family? I haven't heard yet, that's where I'd look.
These stories have a nasty habit of turning into something much more sinister.
What do you consider "sinister"? For the moment, the priority would seem to be an appeal to the public to help find the child.
What do you consider "sinister"? For the moment, the priority would seem to be an appeal to the public to help find the child.As a member of the public, what would you do to help after an appeal ?
?{)(** I've just seen the Vasco da Gama (frigate) cross the Tagus (which is so large on Lisbon shore that it's called the Straw See).
The PJ officer meant that Portugal hadn't the means of the UK, but ironically quoted the Royal Navy.
Do toddlers often get dressed at night & go for walks outside?When they're in love, yes..
Do toddlers often get dressed at night & go for walks outside?
An absent father who seems to be estranged from the mother. Sky claiming the police aren't pursuing this angle.
ps sos Serendipity...didn't see your post.
Oh OK thanks....Gerry was very demanding wasnt he? Pity he didnt demand to Kate to put the kids in the safe night creche or get a babysitter! Instead of leang them all to their own devices out of sight and hearing......Why should he ask ? Why should he tell his wife "time for you to do your check" (twice he says he did). I always was shocked by Mr McCann's tendency to pull strings.
When they're in love, yes..
Reports of a man arrested close to Mikaeel's address
They're seeking out the known sex offenders and searching their property.
Still find it hard to believe it was an abduction as no sign of any break in. All very weird.
Still find it hard to believe it was an abduction as no sign of any break in. All very weird.
As a member of the public, what would you do to help after an appeal ?
1. Try to think if I'd seen a child matching that description anywhere during the timeframe; be vigilant anywhere I go and ask others if they had seen anything significant and encourage them to report to the police.
2. Try to think of anywhere a child of that age could possibly have gone or be hiding for any reason.
3. Help put up posters or otherwise disseminate his description with a police contact number if the person isn't found quickly.
4. Now, I'd probably also try to think whether I'd seen anything remotely connected and potentially suspicious prior to the timeframe.
5. Provide any other information to the police that I may have thought might help in some way, even if it proved to be irrelevant or hearsay.
1. Try to think if I'd seen a child matching that description anywhere during the timeframe; be vigilant anywhere I go and ask others if they had seen anything significant and encourage them to report to the police.Fine.
2. Try to think of anywhere a child of that age could possibly have gone or be hiding for any reason.
3. Help put up posters or otherwise disseminate his description with a police contact number if the person isn't found quickly.
4. Now, I'd probably also try to think whether I'd seen anything remotely connected and potentially suspicious prior to the timeframe (or beyond the timeframe of the actual disappearance).
5. Provide any other information to the police that I may have thought might help in some way, even if it proved to be irrelevant or hearsay.
Did the police close the borders yet?8(0(*
8(0(*
I really doubt that a walking toddler, even with shoes on, would remain transparent for a long time.
Why should a toddler have shoes on if not for walking ?
Fine.
Have you done 1. after being alerted this morning by the breaking news ?
I don't live anywhere near this child. It is therefore somewhat unlikely that I might have spotted him, or have any other information that could be useful.What do you call "not near" ? Abroad ?
?{)(** We're on the same wavelength.
I hope the young chap turns up, safe and well 8((()*/
What do you call "not near" ? Abroad ?
I also hope that the little chap turns up safe and well.
Whatever the result may be in this case, I do fear that giving up on potentially findable children due to the publicity surrounding truly faked abductions or domestic abuse situations is detrimental to the unique case of the child in question.
I'd also extend that to missing teens and adults.
Who has given up? Its only been less than a day, not heard anyne sayng they have given up!
Within a physical proximity to where he disappeared or a social sphere in which I might have been aware of any family issues which may - or may not - have been of any significance.Therefore you admit that the appeal you recommend concerns only people in a "physical proximity" and that closing the borders isn't a must.
No, not quite given up. A knee-jerk negative reaction in some parts of the Internet makes me wonder how many people will actually be actively trying to help find this little chap. I find that depressing.
No, not quite given up. A knee-jerk negative reaction in some parts of the Internet makes me wonder how many people will actually be actively trying to help find this little chap. I find that depressing.Some parts of the Internet ? Where geographically ? Haven't you said that you weren't concerned because you weren't near the scene ?
No, not quite given up. A knee-jerk negative reaction in some parts of the Internet makes me wonder how many people will actually be actively trying to help find this little chap. I find that depressing.
As soon as I read he was wearing his shoes and coat, I thought something sinister might have happened. I'd still look though.
Saying that, if I saw a child that age out alone, I would always react, news report of a missing person or not.
Therefore you admit that the appeal you recommend concerns only people in a "physical proximity" and that closing the borders isn't a must.
No, not quite given up. A knee-jerk negative reaction in some parts of the Internet makes me wonder how many people will actually be actively trying to help find this little chap. I find that depressing.
Some parts of the Internet ? Where geographically ? Haven't you said that you weren't concerned because you weren't near the scene ?
Almost everybody in the country will be completely unaware of any of that gossip, Carana.
And sensible people know every case of a disappearance is obviously not the same.
Good to see the forensic officers searching the scene are properly suited and conducting themselves professionally:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-01-16/forensic-officers-at-the-home-of-missing-mikaeel-kular/
Almost everybody in the country will be completely unaware of any of that gossip, Carana.
And sensible people know every case of a disappearance is obviously not the same.
How long does the boy have to be missing before they send in the pope?
Only 10% of UK population live in Scotland and only10% of that lives in Edinburgh, so most people will only have a passing interest.
Good to see the forensic officers searching the scene are properly suited and conducting themselves professionally:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-01-16/forensic-officers-at-the-home-of-missing-mikaeel-kular/
My issue is not with "gossip". It's with a fatalistic attitude that a missing young child is probably dead and not worth public vigilance.
It may turn out to be the case, but it seems far too early, IMO, to encourage the public to switch off as a "déjà vu" scenario.
You have a point there. But that's certainly not going to be a factor after just a few hours is it?
Nope. Where did I say that I wasn't concerned? In what way?In a geographically way, as you perfectly know ?{)(**
Are the family Catholic?
Of course it isnt and for carana to suggest that people on the internet saying stuff will stop the search is ridiculous, not that ive seen anything in that regard either
I though only a handful of us nutters read these sites anyway, so hardly much of an influence.
I thought only a handful of us nutters read these sites anyway, so hardly much of an influence.So did I. I didn't even suppose Carana used to visit that kind of site.
So did I. I didn't even suppose Carana used to visit that kind of site.
Whch kind of site?Sites of hatred, of course.
Sites of hatred, of course.
In a geographically way, as you perfectly know ?{)(**
Have you done 1. after being alerted this morning by the breaking news ?
CARANA I don't live anywhere near this child. It is therefore somewhat unlikely that I might have spotted him, or have any other information that could be useful.
What do you call "not near" ? Abroad ?
CARANA Within a physical proximity to where he disappeared or a social sphere in which I might have been aware of any family issues which may - or may not - have been of any significance.
You have a point there. But that's certainly not going to be a factor after just a few hours is it?
There's obviously huge police activity, and Sky News have shown much of it. Not one shot I've seen of members of the public searching however, and several of groups of people just standing around. Sometimes some police forces think the public searching can potentially do more harm than good I think.
At the moment, there's a public appeal. Whatever the outcome may be, I don't see the need to discourage the public at this point by negative comments which may stop people actively searching for him. I don't find that fair to the child.
At the moment, there's a public appeal. Whatever the outcome may be, I don't see the need to discourage the public at this point by negative comments which may stop people actively searching for him. I don't find that fair to the child.Can you cite somebody or some entity making negative comments at this point ?
Oh, OK, I misread...yes the dedicated hatred sites ..but none in this case, let alone anything near it which is why I found caranas comments ridiculous! Suggesting people might be influenced by the internet and not go help...
At the moment, there's a public appeal. Whatever the outcome may be, I don't see the need to discourage the public at this point by negative comments which may stop people actively searching for him. I don't find that fair to the child.
Who is doing this then
Who are you accusing and what are you accusing them of exactly?
You best reign your gob in for now carana
Why do you find my comments ridiculous? Based on what?
Some sites try to promote awareness of a missing child who might be found. Others promote the idea that there is no point within hours of the public appeal.
I prefer to promote the fact that a child is missing, whatever the outcome.
Out of curiosity where are you promoting that fact ? In the North Pole ?
I prefer to promote the fact that a child is missing, whatever the outcome.
Why do you find my comments ridiculous? Based on what?Ridiculous based your continuous posts on the matter.....
Some sites try to promote awareness of a missing child who might be found. Others promote the idea that there is no point within hours of the public appeal.
I prefer to promote the fact that a child is missing, whatever the outcome.
You have yet to provide any evidence or examples of this.
What do you think about comments (which I find, at best, discouraging) about the value of appeals?
Why do you think that I should "reign in my gob" when there is an active public appeal for information concerning a missing young child?
Err, because of what you say, and it has nothing to do with the appeal, Im shocked you would suggest I say shut up because there is an appeal....its only to do with your nonsensical posts and nothng to do with an appeal....have you applied to the clarence mitchell school yet? You should do seeing as you are good at twisting others words
Where have I even suggested that you should shut up? Confused.com. It was you who suggested that I should "reign in my gob", not me.
The issue is an appeal about a small child who is missing, whatever the outcome may be. What's the issue?
Good to see the forensic officers searching the scene are properly suited and conducting themselves professionally:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-01-16/forensic-officers-at-the-home-of-missing-mikaeel-kular/
Good that they are being professional.That they are professional? LoL
Don't want to think too closely about what their attire might portend
Peace guys. Let's just hope he's found ok. 8((()*/
That's the main thing.
Odd that a little boy would go walking of his own accord on such a cold night....
I think the sad case in Wales showed that people do not stop searching in any case.
But there is a good point: the media doesn't give anywhere near the same coverage to cases that have good outcomes as it does to those that don't. So people are perhaps conditioned to think fatalistically.
He was coaxed out for sure, who by remains to be seen
Why do you say he was coaxed, Red?
Is this Anne's 'abduction from bed', or is it too early to say?
Put his mother on telly so we can all have a go at her body language. That should sort it.
As Anne said earlier, what abductor would pause to put his shoes and coat on him?Only a dad would put shoes and coat on him.
I hope to goodness his Dad has him.
Abduction from bed with shoes is unprecedented. Or is it not ?
Is this Anne's 'abduction from bed', or is it too early to say?
Put his mother on telly so we can all have a go at her body language. That should sort it.
Abduction from bed with shoes is unprecedented. Or is it not ?
Has the boys mother been out searching for him ?
Has the boys mother been out searching for him ?
Good point, Has she received a phonecall from Samantha Cameron yet?
Why do you say he was coaxed, Red?
Is this Anne's 'abduction from bed', or is it too early to say?
There's no police activity at all at the boy's flat, and news reporter says police have said there's no evidence of a crime there. So if it's abduction it has to be someone the child knows surely?Yes.
Has the boys mother been out searching for him ?
That they are professional? LoL
There's no police activity at all at the boy's flat, and news reporter says police have said there's no evidence of a crime there. So if it's abduction it has to be someone the child knows surely?
As when they saw the pope and numerous other 'visits' ?
Call me racist but I can't help but wonder if the remaining 4 children, in this family of Asian origin, are girls.
Are the boys family catholic ? 8)-)))
Call me racist but I can't help but wonder if the remaining 4 children, in this family of Asian origin, are girls.
No just facts.....total facts too
8((()*/
Doesn't seem from the police statement now that the father is under suspicion.
The father has been spoken to yet the police stress 'no evidence of criminality; a missing person's inquiry'
Pretty sad state of affairs. It's getting dark now as well. By the sound of it, they really do think he's wandered off, which probably explains why they're limiting the search are to specific parts of Edinburgh.
Nowhere you obviousy didnt understand......my post
You suggested I suggested YOU should shut up, but why would I? clear now? Hope so
Your post 3 02 pm
Reigning in your gob comment had nothing to do whatsoever with any help and search i n this case, just your comments..you decided to make a link in your head that shut up meant dont help,see now? Hope so! so just bloody leave it
I observe that they have not closed the borders nor organized stop operations on the highways, nor checked every vessel leaving a harbour, but are rationally searching this wee-boy.
And they said they think the boy could have opened the flat door himself >@@(*&) Mystery. Your skills are needed, Mr Holmes.
Or your brother's. 8(0(*
Too late anyway Anne. If he has been snatched by say a family member he could have been over the border before they even realised he was gone.
I see the mother has said that he was capable of opening the outside security door. Sounds a bit iffy?
The police just said that too.What does "that" represent ? Too late for borders or weird he could open the door?
The boy is not Asian hes English,he is of Asian appearance that's all.
so its ok for a parent to use it in front of them,just because they might hear it at school 8-)(--)
Where did you get this information from? I assumed he was Scottish!So did I, is he not ?
The police are very keen to highlight distinguishing features, including a scar on the nose and a sore on one side of the mouth. They believe it's very important that as accurate a description as possible is released to the general public via the media.
Knowledge of these distinguishing features can assist the public in searching.
So did I, is he not ?
Where did you get this information from? I assumed he was Scottish!
Foul language in front of young children is always wrong. "I'm not here to F*cking enjoy myself" is one example.
Where did you get this information from? I assumed he was Scottish!
Foul language in front of young children is always wrong. "I'm not here to F*cking enjoy myself" is one example.
Unless you wish to explain to me how I took that comment out of context, then, no, I don't understand.
I am, however, willing to let it go, as I think that we both hope that this little boy may be found as fast as possible.
Unless you wish to explain to me how I took that comment out of context, then, no, I don't understand.
I am, however, willing to let it go, as I think that we both hope that this little boy may be found as fast as possible.
@)(++(*His surname, yes. He wee looks.
Well, thats a point
The wee boy can be scottish or english if born here but certainly looks of asian origin, his surname is a clue too
yes thanks, as its a waste of time, i tried to explain but we are n different planets, so lets forget it...this boy has either been taken by a family member or friend or killed by one...3 yr olds dont get dressed to go out in the middle of the night on their own
The police do seem to think he may have Red.Is is really only 3, or 3 near to 4 ?
TV reporters don't seem to have taken yes for an answer though - they're not convinced.
The police do seem to think he may have Red.
TV reporters don't seem to have taken yes for an answer though - they're not convinced.
Is is really only 3, or 3 near to 4 ?
What? Got dressed and went out?
>@@(*&) Not sure what you mean, Anne.Sorry a typo : Is the boy only 3 or almost 4 ?
Sorry a typo : Is the boy only 3 or almost 4 ?
Yep. They said so at the press conference.
You don't have to think about it, we ALL hope the boy is found.
"Where did you get this information from? I assumed he was Scottish!"
English people live in Scotland you know @)(++(* you really shouldn't assume anything 8-)(--)
So police think he made his own way out on purpose. Ok thanks will check out the reports and footage....
I do indeed hope so. My objection is to the pessimism expressed such a short time after his disappearance.
A different story. Someone found a little girl wandering around a petrol station. The person thought that this was unusual and checked. She was indeed a missing little one and had been dumped there. Her name is not online for reasons that shouldn't be too difficult to work out.
If the person in question who had noticed her had just assumed that she'd been let out of a family car while someone paid for petrol or had gone for a pee, she might have been dead by the next day.
I do indeed hope so. My objection is to the pessimism expressed such a short time after his disappearance.You do indeed hope that all hope ?
May have, that's all they said. They've said nothing for certain, except that so far they have no evidence anywhere indicating a crime has taken place.Well that is all they can say isnt it, i never heard of a three yr old dressing themselves up to go out after being put to bed...somethings not right
I do indeed hope so. My objection is to the pessimism expressed such a short time after his disappearance.
A different story. Someone found a little girl wandering around a petrol station. The person thought that this was unusual and checked. She was indeed a missing little one and had been dumped there. Her name is not online for reasons that shouldn't be too difficult to work out.
If the person in question who had noticed her had just assumed that she'd been let out of a family car while someone paid for petrol or had gone for a pee, she might have been dead by the next day.
What I mean is no three yr old gets up from their bed puts their jacket and shoes on and decides to go out..on their own...a toddler might wander, but one doesnt dress before going out thinking oh it might be cold
ie an older person must be involved
Ah...common sense at last. Appears someone put his coat and shoes on for a reason. Someone who must have had access to that apartment somehow.
Who wouldn't do something if they saw a small child out alone? I certainly wouldn't just assume that everything was ok. at the very least I'd hang around till the parents came back and if they didn't, I'd call the police and approach the child myself.Nobody can.
I can't imagine anyone assuming that a three year old out alone is fine.
I do indeed hope so. My objection is to the pessimism expressed such a short time after his disappearance.
A different story. Someone found a little girl wandering around a petrol station. The person thought that this was unusual and checked. She was indeed a missing little one and had been dumped there. Her name is not online for reasons that shouldn't be too difficult to work out.
If the person in question who had noticed her had just assumed that she'd been let out of a family car while someone paid for petrol or had gone for a pee, she might have been dead by the next day.
Ah...common sense at last. Appears someone put his coat and shoes on for a reason. Someone who must have had access to that apartment somehow..and someone who cared not someone set out to harm
.and someone who cared not someone set out to harmYes.
I agree. Maybe mother and father are from different religions? I read that the father lives separately. But it is all surmise until more information comes out officially
Brunty said he spoke to the father of the other children, but said he's not sure that man is also Mikaeel's father.
Yes.
Now, if he did this alone, his Mum might have an idea about his purpose.
Sounds like a dad getting his son back to me.....so far, so good vis a vis safety and not abduction/harmIt sounds a bit like this, yes, but what about the twin ?
Sounds like a dad getting his son back to me.....so far, so good vis a vis safety and not abduction/harmI wondered the same; but as I said do not really want to surmise on the internet until there is more info
Was a twin though so why one and not the other?
Is the twin a girl?
Twasn't a joke, I was serious. The bit I can't understand though is how he got out without disturbing the others. Are we expected to believe he closed the doors behind him too?
I can't help but think that this missing little Asian boy is getting less media coverage & outpourings of grief than he would if he were a little white girl.
I'm not sure if that makes me racist, sexist or both.
A realist.
Three year old boy walks out of house .?
Have they said he walked out of house or is it because his shoes and coat have gone
Three year old boy walks out of house .?
Have they said he walked out of house or is it because his shoes and coat have gone
Three year old boy walks out of house .?
Have they said he walked out of house or is it because his shoes and coat have gone
They're just saying it's possible, and that's all they've said really.
"At this stage we’re keeping an open mind. There is no evidence to suggest criminality at this moment but clearly we are keeping an open mind
Sounds very dodgy .if he was wondering around surely the chances of meeting bad are far less than meeting good
Most people would have handed him in to police
He can't just dissapear can he ?
Does he live with his father as well ?
Yes, they are not giving too much away are they, and no public appeal from the parent yet.
Two teenagers from a neighbouring estate said they wanted to help "to see if there was something we could do". One said his mother had heard of a small girl nearby who had told of a "stranger tapping on her window".
>@@(*&)
That was on sky news today,the police went to the house of the little girl to investigate it.
I hope this wee little boy is found safe asap.
Me too, but in them Scotish mists at this time of year after 24 hours, unless as I suspect & hope, his father has somehow gained traceless entry & taken him, then things don't look great for the boy. 8(8-))
Less important if it is someone in the public eye. I've seen plenty of 'celebrities' used in this context.
"Celebrity" or not, I suppose it might depend on the intention... I didn't see what this was about.
My attention is far more focused at the moment on hoping that this wee lad will be found soon.
I haven't followed any of this, let alone seen it for myself, but thanks for the explanation.
I'm really more concerned as to where this little boy might be right now as I expect we all are.
Police Scotland have activated a Child Rescue Alert throughout the UK given the potential risk to Mikaeel and the time he has been missing.
It allows officers to interrupt television and radio programmes with news flashes, while members of the public are urged to call 0300 200 0200 if they have any information that may help police locate the missing youngster.
Earlier on today the story of this missing boy was interupted for Oscar nominations.
That is far sicker than any joke I have ever come up with.
It's a damning indictment of society. Actually, that's really depressed me. It's like something out of a Chuck Palahniuk book.
I'm off to bed. I'm really, really hope that I wake up to hear that this kid fell asleep somewhere, has wondered home and is cwtched up with his Mother.
The BBC don't seem to be paying him much attention. Not like if he were a little white girl.
checked borders and coastal areas,Are you sure that all vessels leaving the port and marina of Edinburgh have been checked ?
Are you sure that all vessels leaving the port and marina of Edinburgh have been checked ?
That's a good question, Anne. I didn't check up on that. Will just have a look now..They've searched the coast and used lifeboats and helicopters, it doesn't seem they searched the ships. Have you any idea of the maritime traffic ?
They've searched the coast and used lifeboats and helicopters, it doesn't seem they searched the ships. Have you any idea of the maritime traffic ?
I observed they've launched a CRA rather late. Perhaps because one criteria was missing : reasonable belief that the child has been abducted.
They always make the same mistake in their panic. They have widened the search area beyond that which a 3-year-old could possibly have wandered unseen and on his own. The Scottish police in general have little experience of child abduction so they are effectively feeling their way. They were far too slow to bring in forensics or move the family from the flat concerned.
The Edinburgh lot in particular still haven't learned a lesson from the Jodi Jones case where the forensics were a complete shambles.
Can you explain a little more John about how they are handling the forensics too slowly in this case? I don't know much about these things.
A potential crime scene and they never sealed it off immediately. They allowed people to wander in and out for hours.
Sounds familiar...
It seems they decided early on that there were no 'suspicious' circumstances.
I think that (in France) in case of proved or high probability of abduction (independent witness), the delay is 1 hour because the regional State representative has to examine the case before allowing the operation which includes all highways and Internet, apart from TV and radio.
As far as CRA goes, I read about it at around 12.00pm on Wednesday. That's about 5 hours after the boy was discovered missing. I'm not sure if that is quick or slow to be honest. As you say, police are not yet convinced that there is any criminality so that could explain why it was not implemented slightly earlier.
I think that (in France) in case of proved or high probability of abduction (independent witness), the delay is 1 hour because the regional State representative has to examine the case before allowing the operation which includes all highways and Internet, apart from TV and radio.
Regarding ports and ships, I cannot imagine how these would come into play in this particular case.Commercial ships take people on board, at least some of them.
If the boy was removed by a family member they certainly don't sound like the kind of people who would have had access to private boats. And where would they be taking him anyway?
As John says Edinburgh port is mainly commercial. There were a few passenger lines in my day ( we often sailed from Leith to Bergen in western Norway - beautiful journey) though few of these lines run today. Again, what relevance these mainly commercial ships or private boats would have to this case is hard to imagine.
Interesting. I suppose the whole idea is that it is implemented in that golden time, otherwise there's not much point.
Commercial ships take people on board, at least some of them.
I find it also hard to imagine, unless the father works on a ship or unless the boy was abducted by yacht people. It was suggested in the McCann case, why not here ?
How many hours was it before the Child Rescue Alert CRA was invoked? Reported missing after 7.15am if I recall.
Interesting. I suppose the whole idea is that it is implemented in that golden time, otherwise there's not much point.It's very delicate on many aspects. The alert must be overwhelming but can't last more than 3 hours, because rapidly it becomes counterproductive and eventually dangerous for the child (whose life has to be considered in danger). It's delicate in particular on the highways, the drivers can't be distracted.
taking the situation as a whole, I don't see any reason to believe that ships would have been involved.Why were all yachts of the Lagos Marina checked ?
Commercial ships take people on board, at least some of them.
I find it also hard to imagine, unless the father works on a ship or unless the boy was abducted by yacht people. It was suggested in the McCann case, why not here ?
Remember too that it is still dark in Edinburgh at 7.20am so why on earth would a toddler go out on his own in the dark and the cold when previously he never even ventured outside to play?
Nite all.
Well first of all as John says, the fastest way of getting out of Scotland is by car. Just over an hour to the English border. Similar to the journey from PdL to the Spanish border - though probably quicker.
Remember also that Scotland and England, in constitutional terms, are the same country. The border is completely open - no checks on it anywhere. No police presence, guards, passport control - not even for foreigners in the country. No Schengen agreement needed!
Secondly I think I read that the father, who presumably be the prime suspect in a family abduction, works in some kind of call centre. No connection to ships at all. And as far as I know the Asian community does not have much of a presence in Leith / the shipping world there. I could be wrong on that as my information is slightly out of date, but taking the situation as a whole, I don't see any reason to believe that ships would have been involved.
The big question is have they spoken to the father.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-25772465
"Supt McAinsh confirmed that police had spoken to Mikaeel's father and his family were being very helpful."
The best case scenario is that the father or another family member has him.
Someone cared enough to dress him.
If he was taken by his family he would be in a car south to England immediately. An hour and you would be over the border, no checkpoints or sod all. If this is what happened he will be sheltered by the Asian communities and might never surface again in the UK.
But none of the newspapers seem to care enough to stick a large picture of him on the front page
Over 24 hours later now with no sign, so it's really not looking good. Plenty of CCTV around and I would hope that will give them something to work with. Fingers crossed. The police response has been huge, immediate, and entirely professional, and the public have been a great help too. Anything that can be done is being done which is something. I suppose if there is still no progress today we might see a public appeal from the family tomorrow.
http://news.sky.com/
See Fridays front pages, the Telegraph is the only paper to give the story its main front page, a couple of others had a smaller inset but in the main youre right
The police are being played, all the experts agree that he didn't go out on his own. The search is a farce basically and that Supt is beginning to look very much out of her depth. She has consistently and very publicly insisted there was no criminality yet she has no proof of the alternative. Naivety personified .
The police are being played, all the experts agree that he didn't go out on his own. The search is a farce basically and that Supt is beginning to look very much out of her depth. She has consistently and very publicly insisted there was no criminality yet she has no proof of the alternative. Naivety personified .
The police are being played, all the experts agree that he didn't go out on his own. The search is a farce basically and that Supt is beginning to look very much out of her depth. She has consistently and very publicly insisted there was no criminality yet she has no proof of the alternative. Naivety personified .
This happened in the UK. CCTVs are everywhere.. even on the council buildings like this one..
So why they don't look at the CCTVs?
The police are being played, all the experts agree that he didn't go out on his own. The search is a farce basically and that Supt is beginning to look very much out of her depth. She has consistently and very publicly insisted there was no criminality yet she has no proof of the alternative. Naivety personified .
This happened in the UK. CCTVs are everywhere.. even on the council buildings like this one..
So why they don't look at the CCTVs?
You would think that by now they would have done so and will know whether he left the building on his own, or indeed, at all.
I imagine the police don't want to leap to conclusions based on insufficient evidence.
That they are not telling everything to the public may be frustrating, but is entirely proper.
It's quite simple isn't it, the media cares more about girls than boys & whites more than asians.
The father confirmed as a Pakistani born national.
Time his mother made a public appeal imo.
If there is more to the story than waking & wandering then that could give the cops a clue.
We already knew that. Presumably you think its significant?
All very odd, wouldn't any parent want to make a public appeal in such circumstances?
Is it a council building? The mother comes from a rather middle class background, I understand.
I think it is a council building with one of these heavy main doors.. I've seen it mentioned somewhere.. a 70 something old man living above said the door makes a beep after pressing exit.. and a child would not be able to open it..
I think council buildings have CCTVs
Superintendent mcainsh is reported to have said the cctv at the front of the building was believed to be working
http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2014/01/16/police-tell-of-huge-operation-to-find-missing-3-year-old-mikaeel-kular/
See third paragraph under sub heading "shelter"
It would appear nothing was found on it then if true
Well, if this was the case they can see everyone who entered and exited the building..
Well, if this was the case they can see everyone who entered and exited the building..
Is there back entrance? I imagine there would be for health and safety.
(http://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/1560473_710149235672193_74747906_n.jpg) Here is the Child Alert on Facebook page, which includes the little boy dressed in the clothes he is meant to have put on
And the Mail confirms the mother's surname is Kular, so she may be Sikh and the father confirmed as Muslim (Pakistani)
The Mail shows the same two photos actually, but larger than the Child Alert photos
Conflicting info here to what neighbours say...regarding how easy it is getting out of the flat
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-search-for-missing-threeyearold-boy-mikaeel-kular-9063569.html
Scenarios
Boy left on his own and exited flat block
Boy left flat on his own and someone in the block ws involved
Boy was taken by someone he knew from inside flat
Boy was taken by someone he didnt know from inside flat
Boy did not leave at all
Any others?
He is still in the building.
Dont think police are preparing just yet to bring cadaver dogs in....but what do I know?
Do you really want someone to answer that?
It's a bit obvious who has taken him
He will be abroad now
Brunty says it's possible the lad disappeared earlier than previously stated.
(another TV reporter said more or less the same yesterday)
Brunty says it's possible the lad disappeared earlier than previously stated.
(another TV reporter said more or less the same yesterday)
Brunt's never shied away from throwing wild speculation around, to be fair.
Brunt's never shied away from throwing wild speculation around, to be fair.
Yea,thats what I heard too....he didnt go to nursery on the wednesday as he was not well and police are open to the idea he may have gone missing before Wednesday..what does that say about him being put to bed on Wednesday night???
If no door finger prints and no CCTV clues - it all screams 'check the neighbours'
its odd that the CCTV cameras outside the flats have come up with zilch. Although they are saying there may have been a sighting of a young boy at about 8.30 close by to the flats they are checking CCTV now.
IF there is no real stuff on CCTV perhaps he is still in the flats.....
Do the cameras on the flats record then?
Well i assume so the police lady mentioned it this morning, and they said so on the news nothing of note on the CCTV outside the flats....
Police is giving only 'little' information.. the mention is sighting is only mentioned because they want to investigate whether this was little Mikaeel
So the police have cctv of a young boy matchng his description taken at 8.30 am yesterday but are not releasing it! And neither can they tell if it is him
Just asking people if they saw a child or if they thnk it was their own child...
I dont understand why they are not releasing this cctv image
Police is giving only 'little' information.. the mention is sighting is only mentioned because they want to investigate whether this was little Mikaeel
So the police have cctv of a young boy matchng his description taken at 8.30 am yesterday but are not releasing it! And neither can they tell if it is him
Just asking people if they saw a child or if they thnk it was their own child...
I dont understand why they are not releasing this cctv image
If they need to release it, they will.
i dont see why they are not....if they cant tell if its him maybe someone else can, not rocket science.....that lady superintendent should either put up or shut up, her evasions are starting to get tedious
The image might be poor? They don't want the world (and perps) seeing technology has limits too often maybe.
I must admit I never saw any sniffer dogs on any of the live tv footage all morning yesterday so where were the dogs? Surely if a kiddie had walked out of that apartment so early his would be the only live scent and easily followed??
They always know more than they tell us, Red. She was losing patience with those reporters though (she's probably had no sleep, or not much if any).
Yes, the superintendent was on the ground almost immediately and has been working flat out ever since. A true professional.
The whole story is odd.
He wasn't in the nursery on Wednesday due to being sick.
Although he was sick and usually he sleeps with his little sister this time he was left to sleep alone and then he disappears in the middle of the nigh..
Although he was sick nobody checked on him the whole night!
And his grandma is a doctor!
Very very strange!
Yes, the superintendent was on the ground almost immediately and has been working flat out ever since. A true professional.
Has his mother shown her face yet?
Dont think his grandma was there!
He had a cold, not anythng serious to warrant constant checking thoughout the night
Mikaeel’s grandmother, retired doctor Harjinder Kular, joined the rest of the family in Edinburgh as the search continued
I think it is a council building with one of these heavy main doors.. I've seen it mentioned somewhere.. a 70 something old man living above said the door makes a beep after pressing exit.. and a child would not be able to open it..
I think council buildings have CCTVs
I am looking for a video I watched yesterday about the main door to the flats.. can't find it ..very annoying!
A news reporter was demonstrating what was required to exit.
The doors were locked electronically. In order to exit you press a button on the wall (not high on the wall but would be high for a 3 year-old), then push the heavy door open.
The reporter was expressing skepticism about the notion that a young child would manage to do that.
The whole story is odd.
He wasn't in the nursery on Wednesday due to being sick.
Although he was sick and usually he sleeps with his little sister this time he was left to sleep alone and then he disappears in the middle of the nigh..
Although he was sick nobody checked on him the whole night!
And his grandma is a doctor!
Very very strange!
wasnt that to enter the flats or was it the same to exit them aswell..?
It was reported the mother moved to Edinburogh when she divorced for the first time.. then also reported that the first husband was now living few streets away.. so he perhaps followed her?
Then it was reported that she found a new love and with this new guy who was of Pakistani origin had the twins and they were delighted to have them..
And now the second husband, the father of the missing boy, is not there but the first husband is there.. >@@(*&)
I don't think theres anyway a 3 yr old gets dressed and pops out in the middle of the night...theres more to come in this story...when my children are unwell I always check them in the middle of the night to give more medication when necessary
I would have thought the back and front door would have the same electronic lock.
There are some modern flats in my area which use a wall button & beeping electronic lock to exit.
The doors are pretty damn heavy too.
That's my guess anyway.
Nope, the time for her to make a public appeal is overdue imo.
If I were her, I would be demanding the chance to do so. Unless I had something to hide.
What could she say that hasn't already been said. At the moment police say they have no evidence of criminality - they don't think it's an abduction (or at least perhaps don't want to say so publicly)
Plus they can't always be sure of what a parent will say if they're speaking publicly.
Why should it matter what she might say publicly?
That's not what I heard. Maybe you should listen again.
wasnt that to enter the flats or was it the same to exit them aswell..?
So she put him to bed at 9.00pm alone...no witnesses then
So she put him to bed at 9.00pm alone...no witnesses then
Demonstration of door system:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-01-17/not-easy-for-missing-boy-to-open-doors-in-his-flat/
>@@(*&) It doesn't look that difficult to me (assuming it's the exact same system as the one in the lad's flat. But he would of course have had to open two doors wouldn't he? Assuming the door to his flat was closed/locked. But there are two doors?)
The police don't seem to have mentioned anything about the door to the flat itself; only this heavy door.
Doesn't look too heavy in the clip, but for a three year old wouldn't it be quite difficult to push?
Apparently the boy was small for his age. A 3 year old who was nearly four and on the strong side for his age could maybe manage it.
Demonstration of door system:
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-01-17/not-easy-for-missing-boy-to-open-doors-in-his-flat/
He may be small but could still be strong for a lad his age. Maybe the door to the flat wasn't locked or even closed for some reason (all sorts of possibilities there).
Thank you.. this is very useful..
Now, if he was technically minded, which some kids are this would be very easy for him to open.. My 2 year old nephew who is all about technology could do that.. but my three year old niece wouldn't.. it all depends on a child..
No way he wandered out. Have they sent cadaver dogs into the house yet?
Has the mother shown her face yet
My god.. the police conference was heart breaking 8(8-))
What happened with the news that the second property had been searched?
..AND.. now we see how a proper police investigation should have been in Case Madeleine..
No way he wandered out. Have they sent cadaver dogs into the house yet?Before those, did they send tracker and trailer dogs ? As Angelo said, early in the morning the trail was fresh and yet uncorrupted. SH says she saw dog, but I didn't.
I'm sorry to say that I believe we are looking at an abduction situation. It will be interesting to see where the public volunteers are directed to search tomorrow. It sounded from the ACC that although standard procedures had been put into place in terms of the sea port and airports, those aren't avenues they are particularly interested in.
Before those, did they send tracker and trailer dogs ? As Angelo said, early in the morning the trail was fresh and yet uncorrupted. SH says she saw dog, but I didn't.
Before those, did they send tracker and trailer dogs ? As Angelo said, early in the morning the trail was fresh and yet uncorrupted. SH says she saw dog, but I didn't.
I fear it could be more sinister than a abduction..i sure hope not but theres something not right imo..
I'm sorry to say that I believe we are looking at an abduction situation. It will be interesting to see where the public volunteers are directed to search tomorrow. It sounded from the ACC that although standard procedures had been put into place in terms of the sea port and airports, those aren't avenues they are particularly interested in.
I have my doubts also. Especially as it has been said that Mikaeel hadn't been back to nursery since Christmas break as he had bad cold that turned into a chest infection. So who was the last person to see him apart from is direct family and when?
That's what I was thinking..when was he last seen..ie by neighbours friends etc..all very strange isn't it..
The police has some kind of a timetable on this but they are not telling.. they said they cannot comment on this at this point..
A very good info.. best so far! The back door to the building had a broken lock..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2541111/Police-continue-search-Edinburgh-toddler-Mikaeel-Kular.html#ixzz2qgQsyR1a
Probably unrelated, but you never know
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/mikaeel-kular-s-mother-lost-friend-in-shooting-1-3272716
Probably unrelated, but you never know
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/mikaeel-kular-s-mother-lost-friend-in-shooting-1-3272716
Allegedly killed by a Somali gang. Potentially complicates things but no real evidence of the mother's involvement in anything.
Allegedly killed by a Somali gang. Potentially complicates things but no real evidence of the mother's involvement in anything.Could she maybe be the witness to this case:
Have you thought of this in the McCann case, younger children accidentally hurting older ?
- What if the older child has accidentally hurt the younger child, how the mother would react?
Have you thought of this in the McCann case, younger children accidentally hurting older ?
I wouldn't like to mix Portugal into this story. This is about another missing boy. If you like to know, you may as well start a new topic 8(0(*
The husband's name has been given - the father of the there children. He is Nigerian
I wouldn't like to mix Portugal into this story. This is about another missing boy. If you like to know, you may as well start a new topic 8(0(*I didn't expect another (no) answer ?{)(**
Though I think forum members are expressing opinions in this case that reflects their opinions in the McCann case.So do I, starting with comparing the (certainly) efficient Scottish police with the (certainly not) incompetent Portuguese one. Curiously nobody yet speculated on gypsies.
So do I, starting with comparing the (certainly) efficient Scottish police with the (certainly not) incompetent Portuguese one. Curiously nobody yet speculated on gypsies.
We got the black guy out of the way early on in this case, will there be any creepy men lurking in the scotch mist, surely paedophile gang must be due soon or smack addict abducting him to pay for his next fix.
Has there been any burglaries in the local area?
I have seen on FB there is been an award put up for information on Mikaeel..
25 000 pounds has been offered by the Sun
Yet more proof that white girls are valued higher than asian boys.
Yet more proof that white girls are valued higher than asian boys.
next you will be asking why Ricard Branson hasn't got involved
Well, for me not! For me it is all equal, a child is a child... and I don't care about those who might think different, that is their own problem..Spot on!
But according to the number of the people searching for Mikaeel, Scottish people think the same way I do!
Yet more proof that white girls are valued higher than asian boys.Not true. The Sun was quicker in the McCann case, but they only offered 15 thousand euros for infos.
After 9 days missing Madeleine had a value of roughly 2.5m.Let's hope we will not have to compare what Mikaeel "has" after 9 days.
On average then Maddie was worth roughly £277000 per day.
Whereas Mikaeel is currently worth just £12500 per day.
Still, at least we are all equal in Gods eyes.
Yet more proof that white girls are valued higher than asian boys.
Let's hope we will not have to compare what Mikaeel "has" after 9 days.
There's an emulation effect. Once Mr Doublewall, convinced by your PR/broker, announces that he will invest XXX, Mr Virgin wants to get XXXX stocks...
PRs are best trained by the wolf of Wall Street.
I tend to agree with you that the UK media gave more attention to certain children more than others in the past, but I get the impression that the attention has improved in the past few years.I think so too. This is consistent with living in a self proclaimed multicultural society.
Specialist search dogs are being brought tomorrow.
Apparently there is a 'big secret' about this case which is being mentioned as 'not being denied' but cannot be mentioned and it has been deleted from FB pages and other forums..
This makes me very curious! Still, I haven't figured out what everyone is talking about!
Nobody would, even in hurry.
One questions why they were not brought in sooner....and....how on earth can anybody drive past a young boy, who they can see is all alone....and not stop and help?
That's what the GNR thought in Praia da Luz and that's why they searched for so long, instead of grilling the parents.
I keep thinking he's trapped somewhere in someones garden. If he was at all frightened he would just run wouldn't he.....gone into hiding, stayed low and found he cannot get himself out.
Apparently there is a 'big secret' about this case which is being mentioned as 'not being denied' but cannot be mentioned and it has been deleted from FB pages and other forums..
This makes me very curious! Still, I haven't figured out what everyone is talking about!
Theres no big secret! Its all over the place. Its been alledged by a handful of posters on the FB page that the twins were taken into foster care for several months but eventually returned, reason being the mother was leaving the kids alone at night....Im thinking familial abduction here so far...eta in the first instance...Has the father been found and heard ?
Ah! Is it possible the mother put the kids to bed and went out?
mother arrested as I thought.
mother arrested as I thought.
yes his mother..just seen on sky news..poor little baby 8(8-))
... and thoughts for the policemen/women who made such a grim discovery
Finding the body of a child ... such a little body ... must be the stuff of nightmares