Author Topic: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1  (Read 29126 times)

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Alfred R Jones

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Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2014, 05:02:01 PM »
There is no comparison between the cases. Tabak admitted killing Joanna Yeates, albeit by accident according to him. The McCanns deny involvement in Madeleine's disappearance and of fabricating an abduction but nevertheless created a situation in which abduction was made possible. The only reason they too were not prosecuted was because of the absence of intent according to the Portuguese AG.
you're missing the point - according to some nutcases Tabak didn't kill Jo at all and believe her boyfriend did it, hence to those nutters it is not cut and dried at all
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 05:14:02 PM by Alfred R Jones »

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2014, 05:04:16 PM »
Firstly, you may not have noticed but this thread appears in the Madeleine McCann section of the forum.
Secondly the programme in question referenced the beasting by the press dealt to the McCanns
Thirdly there are clear parallels in the way the cops in both cases decided they had their culprit pretty much from day one, and the ensuing media hullaboo, speculation and character assassination that followed.
Fourthly both Chris Jeffries and Gerry McCann represent Hacked Off.  Both Jeffries and the McCanns also gave evidence at the Leveson Enquiry about their treatment by the press.
So, if you can't see any connection I suggest you put your specs on and look again.

Gosh you don't say!
Are you sure there are parallels in the way the cops operated? or are you just saying it for effect? One case is resolved the other isn't, in that much they differ.
.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 10:42:24 PM by Eleanor »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2014, 05:14:12 PM »
you're missing the point - according to some nutcases Tabak didn't kill Jo at all and believe her boyfriend did it, hence to those butters it is not cut and dried at all

He killed her. It was murder. She had many injuries, manslaughter my ass. He confessed but look at the DNA confusion again.

DNA tests were carried out by LGC Forensics, a private company which undertakes forensic analysis for criminal investigations. Lindsey Lennen, a body fluids and DNA specialist member of the team that analysed DNA samples from Yeates' body, said that although DNA swabs matched Tabak, they were not of sufficient quality to be evaluated. The team deployed a method known as DNA SenCE, which enhances unusable DNA samples through purification and concentration: "We couldn't say whether the DNA was from saliva, or semen, or even touch. But we could say that the probability of it not being a match with Tabak was less than one in a billion." (wiki)
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2014, 05:16:50 PM »
He killed her. It was murder. She had many injuries, manslaughter my ass. He confessed but look at the DNA confusion again.

DNA tests were carried out by LGC Forensics, a private company which undertakes forensic analysis for criminal investigations. Lindsey Lennen, a body fluids and DNA specialist member of the team that analysed DNA samples from Yeates' body, said that although DNA swabs matched Tabak, they were not of sufficient quality to be evaluated. The team deployed a method known as DNA SenCE, which enhances unusable DNA samples through purification and concentration: "We couldn't say whether the DNA was from saliva, or semen, or even touch. But we could say that the probability of it not being a match with Tabak was less than one in a billion." (wiki)
Yes you should point that out to the author of the blog above. - I'm sure they will have a jolly good set of reasons why you are quite wrong.

Offline Carana

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2014, 06:38:35 PM »
There was also an indisputable crime - murder or manslaughter


Any of her nearest and dearest would have been vacillating between the hope that she may have been held somewhere (or that she'd been caught up in some other inexplicable situation) and that she would turn up alive, and the fear that she'd been killed.

Very sadly, the fears turned out to be true.

Finding out that your vibrant loved one's body has been found must be one of the most chilling experiences that anyone has to face.

Remaining in limbo, simply not knowing what has happend to your loved one, whether to face the grief or to maintain hope, must be an added layer of pain and anguish.

Offline Carana

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2014, 06:53:14 PM »
There is no comparison between the cases. Tabak admitted killing Joanna Yeates, albeit by accident according to him. The McCanns deny involvement in Madeleine's disappearance and of fabricating an abduction but nevertheless created a situation in which abduction was made possible. The only reason they too were not prosecuted was because of the absence of intent according to the Portuguese AG.

Did you not notice the "what-ifs"? If the BF hadn't asked for jump leads for a dead battery, which the landlord didn't have, but who found someone who did, BF wouldn't have gone off on his weekend.

There was no reason for anyone to suspect that a nutcase would come into her home and kill her.

The level of vitriol against the BF and others was atrocious, and could have led to vigilante action.

Alfred R Jones

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Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2014, 06:55:55 PM »
I've just noticed Angelo's declaration that the "only" reason the McCanns weren't prosecuted was because of an absence of intent.  What about an absence of evidence?

Offline Carana

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2014, 07:09:33 PM »
From what I recall of the online speculation that I saw on places like Tony Bennett's forum the large majority of it was directed not at Chris Jeffries at all but ludicrously at Jo's boyfriend and father.  Yes, many of the McCann doubters jumped to the completely erroneous conclusion that one or both of them dunnit.

When I briefly observed certain forums, what I noticed was that in the beginning, there were people who were simply seeking news and engaging to a certain extent in a Jo thread or sub-forum. However, those encouraging caution got banned, and the more outspoken about whoever was supposed to be the obvious guilty part of the day were invited to join and express their views on the Madeleine case.

My impression, based on what I observed, was that Jo's fate wasn't important to the old-timers on a particular well-known forum, it was a blatant recruitment drive for a certain McCann faction.

Offline Carana

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2014, 07:14:13 PM »
I've just noticed Angelo's declaration that the "only" reason the McCanns weren't prosecuted was because of an absence of intent.  What about an absence of evidence?

Well spotted, Aflie. I wonder what he meant?

Offline Anna

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2014, 07:19:47 PM »
Well spotted, Aflie. I wonder what he meant?

Could be this:-

It seems evident to us and because the files contain enough elements for such, that the crime of exposure or abandonment according to article 138 of the Penal Code can be eliminated from that range:


“1 – Whoever places another person’s life in danger,
a) By exposing her in a location where she is subject to a situation from which she, on her own, cannot defend herself against; or
b) Abandoning her without defence, whenever the agent had the duty to guard her, to watch over her or to assist her;”

This legal type of crime is only fulfilled with intent, and this intent has to cover the creation of danger to the victim’s life, as well as the absence of a capacity to defend herself, on the victim’s behalf. In the case of the files and facing the elements that were collected it is evident that none of the arguidos Gerald or Kate acted with intent. The parents could not foresee that in the resort that they chose to spend a brief holiday, they could place the life of any of their children in danger, nor was that demanded from them: it was located in a peaceful area, where most of the residents are foreign citizens of the same nationality and without any known history of this type of criminality.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post8683.html#p8683
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2014, 07:26:53 PM »
When I briefly observed certain forums, what I noticed was that in the beginning, there were people who were simply seeking news and engaging to a certain extent in a Jo thread or sub-forum. However, those encouraging caution got banned, and the more outspoken about whoever was supposed to be the obvious guilty part of the day were invited to join and express their views on the Madeleine case.

My impression, based on what I observed, was that Jo's fate wasn't important to the old-timers on a particular well-known forum, it was a blatant recruitment drive for a certain McCann faction.
Yes there was that as well.  Certainly Bennett was very sure that there was something suspicious about the boyfriend and the father and everyone on that forum was encouraged to speculate, the wilder the speculation the better.  There seems to be a view amongst certain people that it is their duty to crack these high-profile cases before the police do it first, despite the fact that they are usually all working from a position of almost complete ignorance (in every sense of the word).

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2014, 08:07:42 PM »
Could be this:-

It seems evident to us and because the files contain enough elements for such, that the crime of exposure or abandonment according to article 138 of the Penal Code can be eliminated from that range:


“1 – Whoever places another person’s life in danger,
a) By exposing her in a location where she is subject to a situation from which she, on her own, cannot defend herself against; or
b) Abandoning her without defence, whenever the agent had the duty to guard her, to watch over her or to assist her;”

This legal type of crime is only fulfilled with intent, and this intent has to cover the creation of danger to the victim’s life, as well as the absence of a capacity to defend herself, on the victim’s behalf. In the case of the files and facing the elements that were collected it is evident that none of the arguidos Gerald or Kate acted with intent. The parents could not foresee that in the resort that they chose to spend a brief holiday, they could place the life of any of their children in danger, nor was that demanded from them: it was located in a peaceful area, where most of the residents are foreign citizens of the same nationality and without any known history of this type of criminality.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post8683.html#p8683

It  probably is.
Is it not amazing how those who have studied the case short back and sideways for seven years (ish) feign a certain amount of ignorance of facts when it suits them?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Anna

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2014, 08:26:59 PM »
It  probably is.
Is it not amazing how those who have studied the case short back and sideways for seven years (ish) feign a certain amount of ignorance of facts when it suits them?

We are all guilty of Memory failure from time to time. Myself included.

There is so much to remember in all these files, which makes it  impossible to recall every one of them.

I however do not believe that insulting remarks are of any advantage to a civilised, debate.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Carana

Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2014, 08:35:46 PM »
Could be this:-

It seems evident to us and because the files contain enough elements for such, that the crime of exposure or abandonment according to article 138 of the Penal Code can be eliminated from that range:


“1 – Whoever places another person’s life in danger,
a) By exposing her in a location where she is subject to a situation from which she, on her own, cannot defend herself against; or
b) Abandoning her without defence, whenever the agent had the duty to guard her, to watch over her or to assist her;”

This legal type of crime is only fulfilled with intent, and this intent has to cover the creation of danger to the victim’s life, as well as the absence of a capacity to defend herself, on the victim’s behalf. In the case of the files and facing the elements that were collected it is evident that none of the arguidos Gerald or Kate acted with intent. The parents could not foresee that in the resort that they chose to spend a brief holiday, they could place the life of any of their children in danger, nor was that demanded from them: it was located in a peaceful area, where most of the residents are foreign citizens of the same nationality and without any known history of this type of criminality.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post8683.html#p8683

Thanks, Anna. That's true of the potential neglect charge. It's not clear if that is what Angelo was reffering to. I expect he'll clarify the next time he pops in.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies - ITV1
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2014, 10:09:03 PM »
What is the moral of the story of Christopher Jeffries?


by Brian Cathcart

If you watched the television drama, ask yourself this: how different would things have been if newspapers had reported the truth?

Imagine if the national newspapers that vilified Christopher Jefferies had investigated his story properly, or at least had honestly reported the views of the people who knew him at the time.

These newspapers had the power, the resources and the expertise. They could have done it. They often boast that this is the sort of thing they do – the mural in the front hall of the Sun’s head office speaks of ‘sticking up for the little guy’.

If they had done it, if they had shown independence of mind and bravery, they might have been heroes. But they didn’t.

Instead they simply told lies. In fact those two short words ‘told lies’ hardly do justice to the depravity of it. They published story after story that was the reverse of the truth. They repeated outrageous suggestions that they had not even attempted to verify. They indulged in fantasy for the sake of slick and impactful front pages.

This wasn’t just a mistake. It didn’t just happen one morning, but over three or four days. Eight newsrooms were involved: that is dozens of experienced news executives, dozens of seasoned reporters. Every one of those news organisations also employs lawyers, and expects its journalists to know the law.

This is the list of papers ultimately forced to admit publishing falsehoods about an entirely innocent man: the Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Daily Mail, the Daily Express, the Daily Star, the Daily Record, the Sunday Mirror and the Scotsman. In addition the Daily Mirror and the Sun were prosecuted and convicted for contempt of court.

Some in the industry want to shift the responsibility to the police. The police, they plead, led the papers into this. It is true that the police were also at fault, but since when did journalists sheepishly follow the lead of the police?

At the moment we are hearing almost every day about conflict between press and police. We are repeatedly told that journalists are independent and that they do an important job of challenging the narratives of officials such as police officers.

Not one of those papers challenged the police narrative on Christopher Jefferies. They all accepted the police line – and then added their own embroidery of inventions to create a kind of Silence of the Lambs fiction on their front pages. Truth was nowhere.

And almost unbelievably, all of this was a repeat of previous collective outrages perpetrated most notably against Kate and Gerry McCann. Almost all of those papers had done it before, and had apologised, and had paid damages. But they just did it again.

It is the culture summed up in the infamous words of a News of the World news executive since jailed for phone hacking: ‘That is what we do – we go out and destroy other people’s lives.’

So, what is the moral of this?

It is that British journalism desperately needs to rebuild its relationship with the British public. Outrageous wrongdoing has been too prevalent at too high a level at too many newspapers for this to be dismissed as a freak event. There is a serious problem and there has to be change.

And we know exactly the nature of the change is needed: the Leveson Inquiry heard every relevant opinion, weighed the evidence and made careful, cautious recommendations designed to uphold standards without inhibiting freedom of expression.

How did these news organisations react – the very same organisations that libelled Christopher Jefferies? With two fingers to the inquiry, to parliament, to their victims and to the public.

Since nothing has changed, you could be the next Christopher Jefferies – or a member of your family, or a colleague, or a neighbour. The culprits don’t care about reporting truth or being fair or standing up for justice.

Please help Hacked Off to put pressure on them to see sense. Find out how you can help here

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