Author Topic: Barry George revisited.  (Read 170922 times)

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Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #675 on: May 04, 2019, 07:08:13 PM »
Troll Exposure blog
Which brings me to another supposition and theory: that Williams-Thomas is at the forefront of a media and police campaign, he is the link between police and media. He fulfils his own stated ambition of being a “middle man” for such matters but by doing so he’s effectively removed the chances of fair trials in many of the cases which he’s leaked information about to the media.
The key to his need to do so is personal ambition in my opinion. However it needs a willing set of players around him, the Murdoch empire stand out as the main willing recipients, the police are clearly leaking operational material through him. Operation Yewtree was leaking more than a sieve with a massive rusted hole in the bottom. The public clamour for arrests and guilty verdicts was being tub-thumped by the actions of Williams-Thomas in leaking such material to the media. And in order to not make the connection to the Murdoch empire so obvious every now and again he would pass other details to the likes of the BBC or the Mirror Group. Spread the wealth.

Read more here:
https://trollexposure.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/may-the-force-be-with-the-force/

Troll Exposure blog:
“In 2003, Williams-Thomas was charged with blackmail, he was subsequently found not guilty by a jury, however that charge alone and the investigation around it should’ve been a red flag. Especially as evidence was found on Williams-Thomas’ computer(s) that he was offering to sell “victim” information to the media in 2001. “Victim” information which was basically confidential information which should’ve remained within the offices of … Surrey Police.
However, it didn’t raise a red flag.

“In 2009, Williams-Thomas presented a two part ITV documentary entitled “To Catch a Paedophile”. He and a production team were allowed access into police investigations and police units revealing the methods employed to catch such offenders. Interestingly the series director/producer of that documentary is Lesley Gardiner who was also the same producer/director of the Exposure programme and also of Williams-Thomas’ Investigator series. Draw your own conclusions from that.
What it does suggest however is that Gardiner and Williams-Thomas had an existing working relationship on a very specific topic.



March 2015 - Mark Williams Thomas
Police let Jill Dando down and now they MUST launch a new hunt for her killer
“The Mirror is launching a major series revealing the secrets behind the investigation into the murder of one of Britain’s best-loved TV presenters, Jill Dando.

So after all the careful analysis I set about with my producer Lesley Gardiner to start to pull the strands together to make a documentary and build up this investigation with the Mirror.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-let-jill-dando-down-5415482
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 07:20:24 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #676 on: May 04, 2019, 07:45:15 PM »
Here Michelle Diskin Bates describes herself as Barry George’s second mother and comments on Mark Williams Thomas

10th December 2018
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21476295

During this interview - Michelle Diskin Bates makes the disingenuous claim that everyone believes Jill Dando was murdered by a hitman!

The police don’t believe it, her family and friends don’t believe it, Nick Ross does’t believe it and many journalists don’t believe it...... I could go on

They believe a misguided individual murdered Jill Dando and Barry George fits that description 100%.

There is no mention anywhere in the book Stand Against Injustice where Michelle Diskin Bates offers guidance to Barry George, which in itself is a red flag. His offending behaviour is minimised throughout the book and during all public interviews.

Quote
From the moment George came into their orbit, Mr Campbell knew a conviction would be difficult. But Mr Campbell told friends he believed "with all his heart" that George killed Miss Dando
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/jul/03/jilldando.media2

On 26th April Michelle Diskin Bates implies Hamish Campbell has “lost the plot.”

Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
·
Apr 26
Somebody's lost the plot!
Jill Dando’s diaries point to her ‘being murdered by a stranger’, says cop who led hunt for her...
JILL Dando’s personal diaries point to her being murdered by a stranger, says the cop who led the hunt for her killer. The Crimewatch presenter’s intimate thoughts show that she did not feel under …
thesun.co.uk


https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1121861952727322625

What is interesting about Michelle Diskin Bates behaviour is the fact she cannot back up any of her assertions with factual evidence, rather than help her cause it has the opposite effect.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 08:07:38 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #677 on: May 04, 2019, 09:22:23 PM »
The BBC panorama documentary “Jill Dando - The jury’s out” aired just before her brothers appeal.
(It last aired on Sat 3 Nov 2007 - 02:15) https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0085bqg

Barry George appeared before the Old Bailey on 14 December 2007


“The BBC's Panorama team has forensic analysis which questions the only piece of scientific evidence against the man jailed for murdering Jill Dando.
Firearms residue expert Professor Marco Morin says the single particle taken from Barry George's coat may not have even come from a gun. He says it should not have been introduced as evidence
.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/5314996.stm

“Lord Phillips also said that he and his fellow judges had not seen either of the recent television documentaries - one on Channel 4 the previous night and last week's BBC Panorama programme - which suggested that the case against George was deeply flawed.

At the end of the appeal, he said, the court would consider "the propriety of those broadcasts".

“Mr Clegg had barely started his argument when a man stood up in the public gallery behind him and delivered an impassioned attack on the QC for failing to put the case across properly. "This man is not doing his job," he shouted before he was led out.

He turned out to be Paul Cleeland, who was jailed for murder back in 1972 and who is still trying to prove his innocence, after being released after serving 26 years.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/nov/06/ukcrime.jilldando
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #678 on: May 04, 2019, 10:51:24 PM »
Michelle Diskin Bates has claimed, far too many times to count, how she heard of Jill Dando’s murder at the time but never really followed the case until her brothers arrest.

I don’t believe this for varying reasons but also because of what she wrote about Jeremy Bamber and how it appears she has had an interest in real crime for many many years


“It was well after midnight on August 6th 1985 and I couldn’t sleep. Switching on the T.V., I absent-mindedly tuned into a news channel. We were living in Co. Cork, in Southern Ireland, and I was joyfully awaiting the birth of our first child who was already overdue, making me feel restless; that was why I was up and about at such an hour.

“Becoming aware of a breaking-news story I began to listen in more closely. A siege was taking place at a farmhouse in England. The broadcaster relayed that five people were inside and there was great fear for their safety. As the story unfolded it became apparent that this was an older couple. A farmer and retired Magistrate, Nevill Bamber and his wife, June; their daughter, Sheila, and her six year old twin sons. https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html

“Awaking early I was anxious for news, hopefully of a rescue, so I put the News on immediately. The siege was over, police had stormed the house and five bodies had been found inside. I was heartbroken, a whole family! My heart went out to the young man who had waited all night long with the police for news of his family; this was not what he wanted to hear.

Another point is that Michelle Diskin Bates has repeatedly claimed (in her book & during interviews) that because she lived in Ireland they didn’t really get to hear much about UK news. Yet here she is claiming to be watching the news following the White House farm murders?

“Not having lived in the UK since 1973, I hadn’t really been following the case about the senseless murder of a much loved TV presented; it was a crime that had taken place in London and I’d felt somewhat removed from it.


I don’t believe this. Her story gets embellished depending on what medium you listen to or read. 

« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 11:02:29 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #679 on: May 04, 2019, 11:24:06 PM »
Michelle Diskin Bates has claimed, far too many times to count, how she heard of Jill Dando’s murder at the time but never really followed the case until her brothers arrest.

I don’t believe this for varying reasons but also because of what she wrote about Jeremy Bamber and how it appears she has had an interest in real crime for many many years

Another reason for not believing her is because of what her uncle Mike wrote in his book.

In early May 2000 I visited my sister Margaret in London as part of my summer holidays. Her son Barry had called to see me on the day I arrived, but had left before I got there. Later I mentioned that to one of my brothers who explained that Barry was a little uptight as he was getting a bit of hassle from the police over the Jill Dando murder. I was puzzled, why would the police be interested in him, surely he wasn’t involved? Could he have done it? ‘No no of course not, but the silly prat has been going around talking about the murder and has got the attention of the police’.
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #680 on: May 04, 2019, 11:29:57 PM »
Another reason for not believing her is because of what her uncle Mike wrote in his book.

In early May 2000 I visited my sister Margaret in London as part of my summer holidays. Her son Barry had called to see me on the day I arrived, but had left before I got there. Later I mentioned that to one of my brothers who explained that Barry was a little uptight as he was getting a bit of hassle from the police over the Jill Dando murder. I was puzzled, why would the police be interested in him, surely he wasn’t involved? Could he have done it? ‘No no of course not, but the silly prat has been going around talking about the murder and has got the attention of the police’.

Barry George’s uncle Mike continues:

A couple of days later Margaret told me that the police had recently questioned Barry in her presence and had also searched her house. I felt glad that I hadn’t been there. Barry called around in the evening before Coronation Street ended. Margaret’s lifelong friend Annie was chatting away as she does while I was engrossed in Corrie. After a time I realised that something had changed and then I realised that Annie had stopped talking. I looked over to her and was a little surprised to see her sitting in silence, which is unusual. Barry had a meal and watched a film on Channel 5, a rather nasty film about a woman who was trapped with a murderous psychotic gunman in a camper van. At one stage she managed to get hold of a gun but could not bring herself to shoot the man in the back. ‘She knows what to do but she can’t do it’ said Barry. That sent a shiver down my spine and I stole a sideways glance at him wondering for a moment would he be able to do it, was I sitting next to a murderer? But though I thought he looked a little tense he otherwise seemed much the same as ever and I dismissed the possibility. I didn’t mention the police and neither did he. I wasn’t aware then that he was being followed around by a team of police. I did fear that he might ask me for a drive to Ireland when I was going home the next morning but to my relief he didn’t.

“A couple of weeks after I had returned from my London holiday SKY News reported that police were confident of making a breakthrough in the Jill Dando murder investigation. I told my brother Tom that Barry had been questioned, and he laughed loudly at the idea. It just seemed too ridiculous to him. But the speculation on Sky was gaining momentum and news of an arrest came on Thursday May 25th. Again I tried to warn Tom, saying I hoped it wasn’t Barry. Again he laughed, but I was uneasy, though not seriously worried.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 11:39:12 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #681 on: May 05, 2019, 09:57:48 AM »
WHY did Barry George tell police. re his alibi, he wanted to account for his movements because people had said he was similar in appearance to a photofit of the killer - when the photofit wasn’t released until a couple of days after he’d been to HAFAD.

More importantly WHO told him he looked like the photofit? His mother perhaps? His sister maybe?

WHO Knew Barry George best? 


https://jeremybamber.blogspot.com/2016/08/justice-is-never-served-by-conviction.html

Michelle Diskin Bates is renowned for spinning a yarn.

What she doesn’t recognise (And I suspect it’s to do with her lack of insight) is that some of us who were once involved in the moj movement - for want of a better word, see manipulation for what it is.

Her credibility has long been shot to bits.
Barry George’s uncle Mike states:
“As I looked over the papers I felt nauseous, broke out in a sweat and had to push my breakfast away, I felt quite ill and it was not Guinness related. Our great victory now seemed hollow and I later said to David James Smith that it seemed like we had won the battle but lost the war. The Sunday Mirror ‘Exclusive’ had the independent article by Scott Lomax which was much more sympathetic towards Barry, though perhaps not entirely accurate. I was later told that there were threats of legal action over the article and I let it be known that if so I would be a witness for the defendants. Fortunately that Pandora’s Box was never opened. In the Mail on Sunday Jon Roseman revealed that he had never believed that Barry was the killer, instead thinking that Jill was shot by the Serbs. Overall much of the press coverage seemed to insinuate that Barry got away with it, but that he was really guilty. That would seem to reflect the police response. I saw just a little of the SKY News interview but I was not impressed by what I saw and heard. It seemed to me as if Barry was reciting from a script. I almost laughed as he earnestly said that he couldn’t begin to understand what the Dando family was going through. It just didn’t sound like something which he would say without being prompted, I felt they were not his words.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ltgorwROQfwC&pg=PA212&lpg=PA212&dq=Then+there+was+the+body+charged+with+monitoring+Barry+and+smoothing+his+path+back+into+society+under+a+Multi+Agency+Public+Protection+Agreement&source=bl&ots=Osy89OF-cJ&sig=ACfU3U0zgkLRZxktkcCyj-B_-VTf-1st0Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP_uOK-dvhAhWssKQKHT4IBzYQ6AEwAHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Then%20there%20was%20the%20body%20charged%20with%20monitoring%20Barry%20and%20smoothing%20his%20path%20back%20into%20society%20under%20a%20Multi%20Agency%20Public%20Protection%20Agreement&f=false

Would be interesting to hear what Barry George’s uncle Mike thought of his niece and nephews behaviour during their recent TV interviews.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 10:42:48 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #682 on: May 05, 2019, 10:42:21 AM »
Barry George’s uncle Mike Bourke
Quote
”Overall much of the press coverage seemed to insinuate that Barry got away with it, but that he was really guilty. That would seem to reflect the police response

Obsessed with visiting Jill Dando's grave and acting more erratically than ever, Barry George is a man on the edge by David Jones 10th October 2008
“During the interview he gave (or rather sold for £80,000) to a down-market tabloid after his release, George insisted he was never fixated with the 37-year-old star, as the prosecution had alleged.
Yet if George wasn't obsessed with Jill at the time she was murdered, he certainly is now.
He spends hour upon hour poring over books and websites about her  -  and, now, with a breathtaking lack of insight into the likely furore, he aims to travel 150miles from London to the West Country.

“Mr Singh Clair is a Midlands-based freelance journalist who was enlisted by the Miscarriages of Justice Organisation (MOJO) to promote George's cause four years ago, when he was battling to overturn his murder conviction.
He brokered the £80,000 interview deal after George's acquittal, and he is now among the trusted inner circle who proffer assistance to George
In an angry email to me this week, Michelle Diskin claimed her brother was the victim of a media-driven plot designed to smear and intimidate him. George's uncle on his mother's side, Michael Bourke fears that the police, having ultimately failed to nail him for murder, might be trying to frame him. It could be like O. J. Simpson  -  you get him second time around,' he said. His mother said much the same when I spoke to her at her West London home. 'I'm very worried for Barry,' she said. 'How can he be happy when they're all out to get him?'
The George family, incidentally, have been torn apart by in-fighting since their 'Free Barry' crusade ended.
Limerick bus-driver Mr Bourke, 53, is estranged from the main George camp for suggesting that the Miscarriages of Justice outfit might be self-serving.
He also questioned the wisdom of parading his nephew (who, in the words of one friend 'can't tell the difference between fame and infamy') before the TV cameras just hours after he was freed.
Of course, all this turmoil is just what a volatile character like George does not need, as he struggles to adjust to the real world after eight years inside.
In the grim appraisal of Ian Horrocks, the retired Scotland Yard detective who was number two on the original Dando murder inquiry, George is still a 'danger to women' and in need of constant supervision.
 
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #683 on: May 05, 2019, 10:51:30 AM »
Barry George was I believe diagnosed as having a narcissistic personality disorder or traits of?

What causes personality disorders?
“Research suggests that genetics, abuse and other factors contribute to the development of obsessive-compulsive, narcissistic or other personality disorders.
In the past, some believed that people with personality disorders were just lazy or even evil. But new research has begun to explore such potential causes as genetics, parenting and peer influences:https://www.apa.org/topics/personality/disorders-causes

What is narcissistic personality disorder?
The word narcissism gets tossed around a lot in our selfie-obsessed, celebrity-driven culture, often to describe someone who seems excessively vain or full of themselves. But in psychological terms, narcissism doesn’t mean self-love—at least not of a genuine sort. It’s more accurate to say that people with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) are in love with an idealized, grandiose image of themselves. And they’re in love with this inflated self-image precisely because it allows them to avoid deep feelings of insecurity. But propping up their delusions of grandeur takes a lot of work—and that’s where the dysfunctional attitudes and behaviors come in.

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding. This way of thinking and behaving surfaces in every area of the narcissist’s life: from work and friendships to family and love relationships.

People with narcissistic personality disorder are extremely resistant to changing their behavior, even when it’s causing them problems. Their tendency is to turn the blame on to others. What’s more, they are extremely sensitive and react badly to even the slightest criticisms, disagreements, or perceived slights, which they view as personal attacks. For the people in the narcissist’s life, it’s often easier just to go along with their demands to avoid the coldness and rages.

Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder

Grandiose sense of self-importance
Grandiosity is the defining characteristic of narcissism. More than just arrogance or vanity, grandiosity is an unrealistic sense of superiority. Narcissists believe they are unique or “special” and can only be understood by other special people. What’s more, they are too good for anything average or ordinary. They only want to associate and be associated with other high-status people, places, and things.

Narcissists also believe that they’re better than everyone else and expect recognition as such—even when they’ve done nothing to earn it. They will often exaggerate or outright lie about their achievements and talents. And when they talk about work or relationships, all you’ll hear is how much they contribute, how great they are, and how lucky the people in their lives are to have them. They are the undisputed star and everyone else is at best a bit player.

Lives in a fantasy world that supports their delusions of grandeur
Since reality doesn’t support their grandiose view of themselves, narcissists live in a fantasy world propped up by distortion, self-deception, and magical thinking. They spin self-glorifying fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, attractiveness, and ideal love that make them feel special and in control. These fantasies protect them from feelings of inner emptiness and shame, so facts and opinions that contradict them are ignored or rationalized away. Anything that threatens to burst the fantasy bubble is met with extreme defensiveness and even rage, so those around the narcissist learn to tread carefully around their denial of reality.

Needs constant praise and admiration
A narcissist’s sense of superiority is like a balloon that gradually loses air without a steady stream of applause and recognition to keep it inflated. The occasional compliment is not enough. Narcissists need constant food for their ego, so they surround themselves with people who are willing to cater to their obsessive craving for affirmation. These relationships are very one-sided. It’s all about what the admirer can do for the narcissist, never the other way around. And if there is ever an interruption or diminishment in the admirer’s attention and praise, the narcissist treats it as a betrayal.

Sense of entitlement
Because they consider themselves special, narcissists expect favorable treatment as their due. They truly believe that whatever they want, they should get. They also expect the people around them to automatically comply with their every wish and whim. That is their only value. If you don’t anticipate and meet their every need, then you’re useless. And if you have the nerve to defy their will or “selfishly” ask for something in return, prepare yourself for aggression, outrage, or the cold shoulder.

Exploits others without guilt or shame
Narcissists never develop the ability to identify with the feelings of others—to put themselves in other people’s shoes. In other words, they lack empathy. In many ways, they view the people in their lives as objects—there to serve their needs. As a consequence, they don’t think twice about taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends. Sometimes this interpersonal exploitation is malicious, but often it is simply oblivious. Narcissists simply don’t think about how their behavior affects others. And if you point it out, they still won’t truly get it. The only thing they understand is their own needs.

Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others
Narcissists feel threatened whenever they encounter someone who appears to have something they lack—especially those who are confident and popular. They’re also threatened by people who don’t kowtow to them or who challenge them in any way. Their defense mechanism is contempt. The only way to neutralize the threat and prop up their own sagging ego is to put those people down. They may do it in a patronizing or dismissive way as if to demonstrate how little the other person means to them. Or they may go on the attack with insults, name-calling, bullying, and threats to force the other person back into line.
https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder.htm/
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 11:30:22 AM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #684 on: May 05, 2019, 11:19:06 AM »
What’s New in Narcissism?
“Narcissism is definitely one of the hot button topics in psychology. The term comes from the legend of Narcissus, the mythical Greek nymph who fell in love with his own reflection in the water. Transfixed by this image, which he did not recognize as his own, he was unable to leave the pool and died.
It was not until the early 20th Century that the myth of Narcissus became embraced by psychology.  According to Freud, narcissism is a normal stage of development, when infants need to love themselves to survive. The pathological condition develops when infants fail to overcome this normal phase, called “primary narcissism.” When all goes well, primary narcissism becomes the basis for healthy self-love on which we build a solid sense of our self-worth and identity.

Freud believed, then, that a certain amount of self-love is essential for having a positive approach to yourself and your life.  Following Freud’s ideas, other psychoanalysts defined a phase early in life in which children have a grandiose sort of narcissism in which they see themselves as capable of anything. Over time, children’s narcissism transforms into a more realistic view of what they can accomplish. In both theories, the child’s family plays an important role in setting the path from healthy narcissism to healthy, and more limited, self-regard.

Narcissism wasn’t considered a psychological disorder until 1980 when the psychiatrists who developed the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Diseases (DSM) decided to introduce it as an official term in the nomenclature. Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), as it was called, was intended to fit a pattern of behavior in which an individual shows such behaviors as excessive grandiosity, attention-seeking, and sensitivity to being rejected or ignored.  In the revision of the DSM slated for 2013, the working groups on personality disorder diagnoses tentatively decided to scrap the diagnosis. Ironically enough, a loud clamoring by clinicians to preserve the NPD diagnosis occurred and now it will still qualify as its own diagnosis.

Apart from the diagnostic disputes, narcissism remains an area of focus in personality and abnormal psychology that continues to – shall we say- draw attention. In a recent issue of the Journal of Clinical Psychology: In Session, Dr. Donna Bender (2012) organized a series of papers to help advance our knowledge of the way that narcissism is conceived of and treated.  Her summary of these papers provides us with a brief and useful snapshot to summarize the status of the official diagnosis and an understanding, even more importantly, of its cultural and social connections.  These points show where narcissism is and where it is going as an area of study in psychology:

1.No one agrees on how to define narcissism. This is a little bit of a disappointment, I suppose. It would be nice to tie up the definition with a bow and present it clearly to you. However, although the myth of Narcissus is itself pretty straightforward, the way that mental health practitioners and researchers pin down the specifics of the disorder is surprisingly murky and difficult to measure.  The basic criteria include feeling grandiosely self-important, fantasizing that you have unlimited power, believing that you are “special,” needing to be admired, feeling entitled, exploiting others, being unable to empathize with others, jealous, and arrogant. Quite a collection of undesirable traits, is it not? And this is the heart of the diagnostic problem, according to Bender. The people who came up with these diagnostic criteria may be showing just a bit of what psychoanalysts call “countertransference” meaning that they don’t like working with narcissistic clients and so paint them with an overly negative label. If we move beyond those pejorative terms, as the newest DSM authors hope to do, we could avoid these harsh terms and instead rate people with more neutral terms such as identity, empathy, intimacy, and self-direction. To diagnose someone with NPD, you would not just check off their negative traits, but scale them from high to low on these dimensions.

2. Narcissism can be healthy and begins as a normal part of development.  It’s not always bad to be narcissistic, at least early in life.  If we stamp out all forms of narcissism, including those that exist in childhood, we could run the risk of creating a generation of children who lack a foundation of healthy self-regard. Children develop into adults who accept themselves more realistically when their parents have propped up their self-esteem early in life. It’s not only the Freudians who believe this, either. Carl Rogers and other humanistic theorists talk about “unconditional positive regard” as a parenting style that can help children accept themselves rather than feeling that they constantly have to meet someone else’s expectations.

3. Narcissism isn’t an all-or-none thing.  When the DSM authors considered dropping narcissistic personality disorder as its own category, they thought that they could do the condition more justice by making it a dimensional rating. As Bender indicated in point #1 above, mental health workers may be more accepting of their clients who have this personality disorder if they rate them along a continuous dimension.  Similarly, if you’re thinking about the people you know, it’s important not to throw the narcissistic label around just because they strike you as selfish and self-centered.  When it comes to thinking about yourself, it’s also helpful to realize that you may be a little bit narcissistic  (especially if you hear this enough from other people) but it doesn’t mean you’re a hopeless case. If we think of narcissism as a dimension instead of a category, it provides hope that people can slide up or down that scale as they (or you) learn from life experiences to be more empathetic and less attention-seeking.

4. Social and familial factors help to shape narcissism. Bender brings up this next important point, one that is too often neglected when we think about this personality disorder. It’s easy to blame someone for being too self-centered and egotistical and attribute these behaviors to a personal flaw or failing. However, people who suffer from pathological narcissism may have received not too much, but too little attention and acceptance by their parents. Their outward grandiosity covers up their fundamental insecurities, the result of having been rejected or devalued by their parents.  They’re constantly hoping that someone will fulfill their need to be admired and accepted.  In extreme cases, their actual sense of self becomes indistinguishable from their ideal self, and they seek the approval only of those people who they see as up to their unrealistically high standards.  Called by one psychoanalyst “malignant narcissism,” people with this form of pathology can’t get intimate with anyone because they can’t find anyone who they think is qualified enough to evaluate or judge them.

5. Pathological narcissism may be fairly common and even on the rise. It’s undoubtedly come to your attention that in a society focused on “me” time, amplified by minute-by-minute Facebook and Twitter updates, narcissism is becoming a fact of life. Back in 1979, author Christopher Lasch wrote The Culture of Narcissism” in which he argued that the individualism of Western society is leading us to pursue happiness above all else. When all we care about is our own feelings of comfort and well-being, it’s hard for us to care about anyone else’s. Considering that the era of all these me-focused social media were far distant on the horizon, Lasch’s work seems especially prescient. Reality shows, from Honey Boo Boo to MTV’s Real World only reinforce the focus on the self.  Bender suggests that the proposal that narcissism is becoming a more prominent social disease may have some truth in that the diagnosis of NPD is becoming more prevalent among young adults. Again, this begs the question of whether we should blame the narcissists for their own disorder or the society in which everyone has become just that much more self-focused.
Now that you’re up on the narcissism news, how can you use this to improve your life? I think the findings can help you understand that not all narcissists really want to be that way. If at their core they are insecure and afraid of being criticized, you might be more sympathetic to your narcissistic friends. You can also realize that people can change, especially if they are helped to feel more secure and grounded.  This doesn’t mean that you won’t be annoyed, angered, and even hurt by someone whose narcissism is out of control. However, if you put their behaviors into perspective, you’ll at least be able to feel less likely to think the problem rests within you.  Finally, therapy can work to help people with narcissism become more empathetic, less inwardly self-critical, and more in touch with their problematic feelings. Great narcissists may be made and not born, but with the right kind of intervention, they can be tamed.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201211/what-s-new-in-narcissism
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #685 on: May 05, 2019, 11:28:35 AM »
6 Common Traits of Narcissists and Gaslighters
“Psychologist Stephen Johnson writes that a narcissist is someone who has “buried his true self-expression in response to early injuries and replaced it with a highly developed, compensatory false self.” This alternate persona often comes across as grandiose, “above others,” self-absorbed, and highly conceited.

Gaslighting is a form of persistent manipulation and brainwashing that causes the victim to doubt her or himself, and to ultimately lose one’s own sense of perception, identity, and self-worth. A gaslighter’s statements and accusations are often based on deliberate falsehoods and calculated marginalization. The term gaslighting is derived from the 1944 film Gaslight, where a husband tries to convince his wife that she’s insane by causing her to question herself and her reality.

Multiple studies and writings have been done on the impact of narcissism and gaslighting on relationships(1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6). While each of these often destructive pathologies is unique, there are certain behavioral overlaps. Following are six common traits, with references from my books: "How to Successfully Handle Narcissists" and "How to Successfully Handle Gaslighters & Stop Psychological Bullying". Not all narcissists and gaslighters possess every characteristic identified below. However, chronic narcissists and gaslighters are likely to exhibit at least several of the following on a regular basis.

1. Frequent Lies and Exaggerations
Both narcissists and gaslighters are prone to frequent lies and exaggerations (about themselves and others), and have the tendency of lifting themselves up by putting others down. While narcissists often strive to make themselves seem superior and “special” by showing off, bragging, taking undeserved credit, and other forms of self-aggrandizement, gaslighters tend to concentrate on making you feel inferior through false accusations, constant criticism, and psychological intimidation. Both narcissists and gaslighters can be adept at distortion of facts, deliberate falsehoods, character assassinations, and negative coercions. One key difference is that while the narcissist lies and exaggerates to boost their fragile self-worth, the gaslighter does so to augment their domination and control.

2. Rarely Admit Flaws and Are Highly Aggressive When Criticized
Many narcissists and gaslighters have thin skin and can react poorly when called to account for their negative behavior. When challenged, the narcissist is likely to either fight (e.g., temper tantrum, excuse-making, denial, blame, hypersensitivity, etc.) or take flight (bolt out the door, avoidance, silent treatment, sulking resentment, or other forms of passive-aggression). The gaslighter nearly always resorts to escalation by doubling or tripling down on their false accusations or coercions, to intimidate or oppress their opponent. Many gaslighters view relationships as inherently competitive rather than collaborative; a zero-sum game where one is either a winner or a loser, on top or at the bottom. “Offense is the best defense” is a mantra for many gaslighters, which also represents their aggressive method of relating to people.

3. False Image Projection
“My husband always wants people to see him as successful, powerful, and envy-worthy, no matter how shaky his real life actually is.” —Anonymous partner of narcissist

Both narcissists and gaslighters tend to project false, idealized images of themselves to the world, in order to hide their inner insecurities. Many narcissists like to impress others by making themselves look good externally. This “trophy complex" can exhibit itself physically, romantically, sexually, socially, religiously, financially, materially, professionally, academically, or culturally. The underlying message of this display is: “I’m better than you!” or “Look at how special I am — I’m worthy of everyone’s love, admiration, and acceptance!”

Gaslighters, on the other hand, often create an idealized self-image of being the dominant, suppressive alpha male or female in personal relationships, at the workplace, or in high-profile positions of society (such as politics and media). Many gaslighters like to view themselves falsely as all-powerful and strong, capable of dishing out judgments and penalties at will. Pathological gaslighters often take pride and boost themselves up by marginalizing those whom they perceive as weaker, believing that the meek deserve their downtrodden fate. They attack their victims with direct or subtle cruelty and contempt, gaining sadistic pleasure from these offenses, and betraying a lack of empathy and humanity.

In essence, narcissists want others to worship them, while gaslighters want others to submit to them. In a big way, these external facades become pivotal parts of their false identities, replacing the real and insecure self.

4. Rule Breaking and Boundary Violation
Many narcissists and gaslighters enjoy getting away with violating rules and social norms. Examples of narcissistic trespass include cutting in line, chronic under-tipping, personal space intrusion, borrowing items without returning, using other’s properties without asking, disobeying traffic laws, breaking appointments, and negating promises. Examples of gaslighting trespass include direct or subtle marginalizing remarks, public or private shaming and humiliation, sardonic humor and sarcastic comments, internet trolling, angry and hateful speech, and virulent attacks on undesirable individuals and groups.

Both narcissist and gaslighter boundary violations presume entitlement, with a narrow, egocentric orientation that oppresses and de-humanizes their victims. In severe cases, this boundary violation pathology may result in illicit and underhanded dealings, financial abuse, sexual harassment, date rape, domestic abuse, hate crimes, human rights violations, and other forms of criminality. Many narcissists and gaslighters take pride in their destructive behaviors, as their machinations provide them with a hollow (and desperate) sense of superiority and privilege.

5. Emotional Invalidation and Coercion
Although narcissists and gaslighters can be (but are not always) physically abusive, for the majority of their victims, emotional suffering is where the damage is most painfully felt. Both narcissists and gaslighters enjoy spreading and arousing negative emotions in order to feel powerful, and keep you insecure and off-balance. They habitually invalidate others’ thoughts, feelings, and priorities, showing little remorse for causing people in their lives pain. They often blame their victims for having caused their own victimization (“You wouldn’t get yelled at if you weren’t so stupid!”).

In addition, many narcissists and gaslighters have unpredictable mood swings and are prone to emotional drama — you never know what might displease them and set them off. They become upset at any signs of independence and self-affirmation (“Who do you think you are!?”). They turn agitated if you disagree with their views or fail to meet their expectations. As mentioned earlier, they are sensitive to criticism, but quick to judge others. By keeping you down and making you feel inferior, they boost their fragile ego, and feel more reassured about themselves.

6. Manipulation: The Use or Control of Others as an Extension of Oneself
Both narcissists and gaslighters have a tendency to make decisions for others to suit their own agenda. Narcissists may use their romantic partner, child, family, friend, or colleague to meet unreasonable self-serving needs, fulfill unrealized dreams, or cover-up weaknesses and shortcomings. Narcissists are also fond of using guilt, blame, and victimhood as manipulative devices.

Gaslighters conduct psychological manipulation toward individuals and groups through persistent distortion of the truth, with the intention of causing their victims to question themselves and feel less confident. In personal and/or professional environments, they manipulate by micromanaging (controlling) relationships, including telling others how they should think, feel, and behave under the gaslighter’s unreasonable restrictions and scrutiny. They often become critical, angry, intimidating, and/or hostile toward those who fail to bow down to their directives. Gaslighter manipulation is often highly aggressive, with punitive measures (tangible or psychological) executed toward those who fail to recognize and obey their self-perceived authority.

Perhaps the biggest distinction between narcissists and gaslighters is that narcissists use and exploit, and gaslighters dominate and control. While the narcissist does so to compensate for a desperate sense of deficiency (of being unloved as the real self), the gaslighter does so to hide their ever-present insecurity (of being powerless and losing control). Both of these pathological types betray an inability and/or unwillingness to relate to people genuinely and equitably as human beings. They become “special” and “superior” by being less human and by de-humanizing others.

In the worst-case scenario, some individuals possess traits of both narcissism and gaslighting. This is a highly toxic and destructive combination of vanity, manipulation, bullying, and abuse — all unleashed in order to compensate for the perpetrator’s deep-seated sense of inadequacy and fear.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/communication-success/201707/6-common-traits-narcissists-and-gaslighters
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #686 on: May 05, 2019, 12:00:58 PM »
“I suspect Michelle Diskin Bates, like many of us, is fully aware of Mark Williams Thomas’ behaviour but chooses to carry on regardless in the hope her disingenuous behaviours, along with his, will all disappear.

There is no mention in either Michelle Diskin Bates book or her uncle Mike Bourke’ s book regarding the following claims made by Mark Williams Thomas (& Nick Dorman):

Jill Dando murder: Cops tried honeytrap to get Barry George to confess to her murder
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jill-dando-murder-cops-tried-5431123

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/gallery/barry-george-police-honeytrap-operation-5431175
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #687 on: May 05, 2019, 12:47:13 PM »
During this interview - Michelle Diskin Bates makes the disingenuous claim that everyone believes Jill Dando was murdered by a hitman!

The police don’t believe it, her family and friends don’t believe it, Nick Ross does’t believe it and many journalists don’t believe it...... I could go on

They believe a misguided individual murdered Jill Dando and Barry George fits that description 100%.

There is no mention anywhere in the book Stand Against Injustice where Michelle Diskin Bates offers guidance to Barry George, which in itself is a red flag. His offending behaviour is minimised throughout the book and during all public interviews.

On 26th April Michelle Diskin Bates implies Hamish Campbell has “lost the plot.”

Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
·
Apr 26
Somebody's lost the plot!
Jill Dando’s diaries point to her ‘being murdered by a stranger’, says cop who led hunt for her...
JILL Dando’s personal diaries point to her being murdered by a stranger, says the cop who led the hunt for her killer. The Crimewatch presenter’s intimate thoughts show that she did not feel under …
thesun.co.uk


https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1121861952727322625

What is interesting about Michelle Diskin Bates behaviour is the fact she cannot back up any of her assertions with factual evidence, rather than help her cause it has the opposite effect.

CCRC
@ccrcupdate
Tonight's BBC programme #TheMurderofJillDando looks interesting and
@ccrcupdate
 recalls the CCRC's June 2007 referral for appeal of Barry George's murder conviction. His appeal succeeded and he was acquitted at a retrial.


Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
·
Apr 2
Replying to
@ccrcupdate
Not so much interesting for Barry, as scary! He’s been battling for justice for 19yrs, then the officer who was responsible for his wrongful conviction is given a platform on BBC to say ‘no one else was being sought for this crime’ how else would he be feeling? Disgraceful!

https://mobile.twitter.com/ccrcupdate/status/1113074556862976001


WHY would Barry George be scared if what his sister Michelle Diskin Bates claims is true, then appear on an ITV documentary a few weeks later? The ITV documentary, which included her interview and her brothers interview, was made in advance of it’s airing.

The BBC documentary first aired on BBC1 on Tue 2 Apr 2019 @ 21:00 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0003w40

And from this article in The Sunday Times, dated April 14 2019, Barry George and his sister has already been interviewed.

Interestingly, Crazy making behaviour is often behavior that is a projection from the person who is crazy making onto the person who is being crazy made. It is behavior that is not logical, not based on truth but on manipulating the other person into feeling wrong and changing their behavior
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/crazy-making_n_5860048



Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Watch this space...the must-see 👁 documentary! 😊🙃💪🏼

This is the documentary that will air on next Thursday at 9pm. In this programme you will learn far more than you ever have before😎 Both Barry and myself have taken part.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1119322847074299904


Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Good grief...people don’t have enough work to do! #getalife There are more important things to get agitated about than TV presenters.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1118096335436165120


Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Please everyone, share on...I really want people to view this. More info soon 🤗♥️😸

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1119349775785132034


When someone’s words do not match their behaviour this is a red flag and no amount of emotional manipulation, as I see it, will further Barry George’s cause.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 01:11:42 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #688 on: May 05, 2019, 01:21:21 PM »

CCRC
@ccrcupdate
Tonight's BBC programme #TheMurderofJillDando looks interesting and
@ccrcupdate
 recalls the CCRC's June 2007 referral for appeal of Barry George's murder conviction. His appeal succeeded and he was acquitted at a retrial.


Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
·
Apr 2
Replying to
@ccrcupdate
Not so much interesting for Barry, as scary! He’s been battling for justice for 19yrs, then the officer who was responsible for his wrongful conviction is given a platform on BBC to say ‘no one else was being sought for this crime’ how else would he be feeling? Disgraceful!

https://mobile.twitter.com/ccrcupdate/status/1113074556862976001


WHY would Barry George be scared if what his sister Michelle Diskin Bates claims is true, then appear on an ITV documentary a few weeks later? The ITV documentary, which included her interview and her brothers interview, was made in advance of it’s airing.

The BBC documentary first aired on BBC1 on Tue 2 Apr 2019 @ 21:00 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0003w40

And from this article in The Sunday Times, dated April 14 2019, Barry George and his sister has already been interviewed.

Interestingly, Crazy making behaviour is often behavior that is a projection from the person who is crazy making onto the person who is being crazy made. It is behavior that is not logical, not based on truth but on manipulating the other person into feeling wrong and changing their behavior
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/crazy-making_n_5860048



Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Watch this space...the must-see 👁 documentary! 😊🙃💪🏼

This is the documentary that will air on next Thursday at 9pm. In this programme you will learn far more than you ever have before😎 Both Barry and myself have taken part.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1119322847074299904


Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Good grief...people don’t have enough work to do! #getalife There are more important things to get agitated about than TV presenters.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1118096335436165120


Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
Please everyone, share on...I really want people to view this. More info soon 🤗♥️😸

https://mobile.twitter.com/Michelle_Diskin/status/1119349775785132034


When someone’s words do not match their behaviour this is a red flag and no amount of emotional manipulation, as I see it, will further Barry George’s cause.

Interesting projections, in response to Mark Williams Thomas.

Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
·
2 Apr
This is just betraying the Dando family further, they’ve been lied to for 19years. Not to mention us 😢

https://mobile.twitter.com/mwilliamsthomas/status/1113200690321612800
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 01:23:36 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation

Offline Nicholas

Re: Barry George revisited.
« Reply #689 on: May 05, 2019, 01:45:24 PM »
Interesting projections, in response to Mark Williams Thomas.

Michelle Diskin Bates 🎀
@Michelle_Diskin
·
2 Apr
This is just betraying the Dando family further, they’ve been lied to for 19years. Not to mention us 😢

https://mobile.twitter.com/mwilliamsthomas/status/1113200690321612800

Barry George’s uncle Mike claimed:

I saw just a little of the SKY News interview but I was not impressed by what I saw and heard. It seemed to me as if Barry was reciting from a script. I almost laughed as he earnestly said that he couldn’t begin to understand what the Dando family was going through. It just didn’t sound like something which he would say without being prompted, I felt they were not his words.

I got the strong sense Michelle Diskin Bates and Barry George’s words were scripted (From their imaginations) in their recent ITV & GMB interviews; wonder if Mike Bourke felt the same?

My impression of the pair of them is that they are hiding a secret, and are codependent on each other and
Michelle Diskin Bates became her brothers enabler many years ago.

”Codependency is a behavioral condition in a relationship where one person enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement. Among the core characteristics of codependency is an excessive reliance on other people for approval and a sense of identity.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency

Enabling Behavior and Codependency
https://greatoaksrecovery.com/enabling-behavior-and-codependency/
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 02:02:52 PM by Nicholas »
Who wants to take on this great massive lie?” Writer Martin Preib on the tsunami of innocence fraud sweeping our nation