Jeremy Bamber - Unluckiest person in the world?

[goatboy]

I've just read this over there>>>>
"the dog should have been questioned as it was the only reliable witness to the whole murder incident"-I know I shouldn't laugh but this is a classic! Epic even!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3770.msg152313/topicseen.html#msg152313

The dog wouldn't know much as he hid under the bed.   

If he thought the dog could have said anything Jeremy would have murdered poor Crispy too. That is because Jeremy Bamber is a murdering s..mbag. If you can't be rude about a psycopathic convicted child killer who can you be rude about Lugg?

[Dog The Bounty Hunter]

I've just read this over there>>>>
"the dog should have been questioned as it was the only reliable witness to the whole murder incident"-I know I shouldn't laugh but this is a classic! Epic even!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3770.msg152313/topicseen.html#msg152313

The dog wouldn't know much as he hid under the bed.   

If he thought the dog could have said anything Jeremy would have murdered poor Crispy too. That is because Jeremy Bamber is a murdering s..mbag. If you can't be rude about a psycopathic convicted child killer who can you be rude about Lugg?

Didn't he shoot the dog too when nobody wanted it?

[insider]

I've just read this over there>>>>
"the dog should have been questioned as it was the only reliable witness to the whole murder incident"-I know I shouldn't laugh but this is a classic! Epic even!
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3770.msg152313/topicseen.html#msg152313

The dog wouldn't know much as he hid under the bed.   

If he thought the dog could have said anything Jeremy would have murdered poor Crispy too. That is because Jeremy Bamber is a murdering s..mbag. If you can't be rude about a psycopathic convicted child killer who can you be rude about Lugg?

Didn't he shoot the dog too when nobody wanted it?

Had it been an intruder who had broken into the farmuse they would have shot the dog instantly.  Crispy knew it was not an intruder so went and hid when the gunfire started. 

[Padgates staff]

Can I ask what is probably a stupid question but, the .22 used in the murders right, how loud was is without a silencer and how loud was it with? Would it be louder being fired inside the house due to the walls as apose to outside where the noise would be distributed more widely especially in a field (not in a dense woods etc)?


And Nevilles injuries to his face, could some of them be attributed to him falling into the coal bucket thingy? Were the causes of his facial injuries accounted for ie a fight, falling etc?

[Padgates staff]

And another useless question-the bible found at the side of Sheila, what chapter/verse was it opened at?
I asked for 2 reasons, one bing in the Mccann investigation, Kate Mccann sourced 2 Samuel v12 (allegedly) which they thought reflected her mood (about a child dying) and I think it would be s similar situation in this case (had Sheila done it but she didn't), Sheila would have found a relevent chapter/verse to her situation and left it open at that page. If Sheila didn't do it (which she didn't), it wouldn't have mattered where it was open at, unless the person who did it thought to find appropriate passages.

[John]

And another useless question-the bible found at the side of Sheila, what chapter/verse was it opened at?
I asked for 2 reasons, one bing in the Mccann investigation, Kate Mccann sourced 2 Samuel v12 (allegedly) which they thought reflected her mood (about a child dying) and I think it would be s similar situation in this case (had Sheila done it but she didn't), Sheila would have found a relevent chapter/verse to her situation and left it open at that page. If Sheila didn't do it (which she didn't), it wouldn't have mattered where it was open at, unless the person who did it thought to find appropriate passages.

The pathologist made specific mention of the fact that the Bible lay over her hand in the original police photo, a point which was not conducive of her putting it there given she was supposed to have shot herself twice.  It was also face down when found.

By the way Jackie, how do you manage to shoot yourself whilst holding a rifle in both hands whilst at the same time holding a Bible open?  Some of the suggestions put forward in the Bamber range from the surreal to the ridiculous quite frankly don't you think?

[John]

Can I ask what is probably a stupid question but, the .22 used in the murders right, how loud was is without a silencer and how loud was it with? Would it be louder being fired inside the house due to the walls as apose to outside where the noise would be distributed more widely especially in a field (not in a dense woods etc)?


And Nevilles injuries to his face, could some of them be attributed to him falling into the coal bucket thingy? Were the causes of his facial injuries accounted for ie a fight, falling etc?

The sound of the rifle would have been exaggerated when used inside the farmhouse Joanne.  The sound moderator would have muffled the sound ever so slightly.

As for Nevill's injuries, the pathologist was very clear that his head and facial wounds were the result of being beaten by someone wielding the rifle by holding it by the barrel and beating him with the stock. The piece of stock was broken off in this assault and was found lying in front of the Aga.

[Padgates staff]

The whole episode is far worse than I thought, so not only 2 babies got shot (overkill), their Nan and Mum shot but Neville must have known the end game and took a beating in the process. It was horrendous enough what happened but to know what was going on and try and fight back. Even more reason why Sheila could not and never could have done it.

[Matthew Wyse]

The whole episode is far worse than I thought, so not only 2 babies got shot (overkill), their Nan and Mum shot but Neville must have known the end game and took a beating in the process. It was horrendous enough what happened but to know what was going on and try and fight back. Even more reason why Sheila could not and never could have done it.

If a deranged person had done it there would have been spent bullets all over the place.  As it was all but one of the bullets found their target making the whole episode one in which all targets were carefully selected and then executed.  Whoever did it knew exactly what they were doing and were not in the grip of some psychotic episode.

[Myster]

Can I ask what is probably a stupid question but, the .22 used in the murders right, how loud was is without a silencer and how loud was it with? Would it be louder being fired inside the house due to the walls as apose to outside where the noise would be distributed more widely especially in a field (not in a dense woods etc)?


And Nevilles injuries to his face, could some of them be attributed to him falling into the coal bucket thingy? Were the causes of his facial injuries accounted for ie a fight, falling etc?

If the twins were shot first and one or other of the doors between their bedroom, adjoining box room and master bedroom had been slightly ajar (or even closed for that matter) I think the sound of the rifle would have been prominent. I wonder if one or both parents heard it and then dismissed it at first. (when you hear an unusual noise in the night it's all too easy to roll over in a comfy bed and say to yourself ..."I'll see what it is in the morning")

The jury were taken out in the field to hear a demonstration of the rifle's report, although I'm not sure if they carried out the same indoors.

[goatboy]

And another useless question-the bible found at the side of Sheila, what chapter/verse was it opened at?
I asked for 2 reasons, one bing in the Mccann investigation, Kate Mccann sourced 2 Samuel v12 (allegedly) which they thought reflected her mood (about a child dying) and I think it would be s similar situation in this case (had Sheila done it but she didn't), Sheila would have found a relevent chapter/verse to her situation and left it open at that page. If Sheila didn't do it (which she didn't), it wouldn't have mattered where it was open at, unless the person who did it thought to find appropriate passages.

I think pretty much every page of the Bible could be considered to be loaded with significance if you look for it. I think it was planted there to make it look like she had committed the murders in a mad frenzy but with a crazy religious element to it as well.

[Myster]

As for Nevill's injuries, the pathologist was very clear that his head and facial wounds were the result of being beaten by someone wielding the rifle by holding it by the barrel and beating him with the stock. The piece of stock was broken off in this assault and was found lying in front of the Aga.

The rifle stock must have taken one hell of a knock to break a piece off, unless of course it was damaged and split beforehand.
I've only had experience of a .22 air rifle of similar weight and size, but it would take more than hitting a pliable live human to break a piece off it.... something like contact with an immoveable object such as a door frame, edge of a table or worktop, or an AGA towel rail.

Weren't the arm defence wounds only narrow, matching the barrel diameter?

It's quite difficult to hold a rifle by the barrel with two hands, even with one hand on the stock and use it in a clubbing action.. it's hard to describe but it feels out of balance and you don't have full control.

[John]

As for Nevill's injuries, the pathologist was very clear that his head and facial wounds were the result of being beaten by someone wielding the rifle by holding it by the barrel and beating him with the stock. The piece of stock was broken off in this assault and was found lying in front of the Aga.

The rifle stock must have taken one hell of a knock to break a piece off, unless of course it was damaged and split beforehand.
I've only had experience of a .22 air rifle of similar weight and size, but it would take more than hitting a pliable live human to break a piece off it.... something like contact with an immoveable object like door frame, edge of a table or worktop, or an AGA towel rail.

Absolutely, it must have come into contact with something solid like the kitchen floor as blows were being rained down on Nevill.  If there was a scrap between Nevill and his assailant in the kitchen as the evidence suggests there was every opportunity for the rifle stock to sustain damage as the table and chairs were being knocked about and lamp shades smashed.

 

[jackiepreece]

Where did the evidence come from that Sheila Caffelll asked Colin Caffell to take her back on the last journey to WHF and he said no because he was with someone else?
I am guessing this must have been detailed in Colin's book and was this used at trial as something that might have been significant to Sheila's state of mind?
Also is it documented if she shared this information with her mother, father or Jeremy?

[Andrea]

I have Colins book and dont recall reading that Sheila asked him to get from WHF. Colin was due to collect his twins, as he was due to take them abroad to visit a Aunt.