Author Topic: THE ALIBI.  (Read 28831 times)

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Offline Angelo222

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2021, 03:02:48 AM »
I thought you were now saying the murderer was a female?

I can't help but notice that the person you're talking about here is male.

Also, the fact that this person's name was on Jack & Victor's list - that doesn't actually mean anything, in itself.

Is anyone really fooled for a second by the name on a computer screen that had to be edited out?  These TV documentaries are always carefully edited and checked for legal issues so imo it was intentional but it backfired.

It was all a set-up intended to throw suspicion elsewhere, a repeat of the same old tired mantra that has been promoted from the sidelines the moment Luke Mitchell was convicted. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 03:11:46 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline mrswah

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Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2021, 10:31:03 AM »
Is anyone really fooled for a second by the name on a computer screen that had to be edited out?  These TV documentaries are always carefully edited and checked for legal issues so imo it was intentional but it backfired.

It was all a set-up intended to throw suspicion elsewhere, a repeat of the same old tired mantra that has been promoted from the sidelines the moment Luke Mitchell was convicted.

Perfectly understandable, IMO. The TV documentary was implying that Luke could well be innocent, so of course possible alternative perpetrators are going to be suggested.

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2021, 11:05:59 AM »
Perfectly understandable, IMO. The TV documentary was implying that Luke could well be innocent, so of course possible alternative perpetrators are going to be suggested.

Given that the producers were forced to remove the name, it clearly wasn't legal.

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2021, 11:13:05 AM »
Is anyone really fooled for a second by the name on a computer screen that had to be edited out?  These TV documentaries are always carefully edited and checked for legal issues so imo it was intentional but it backfired.

It was all a set-up intended to throw suspicion elsewhere, a repeat of the same old tired mantra that has been promoted from the sidelines the moment Luke Mitchell was convicted.

Aye, it obviously was intentional - in keeping with the rest of the content in that nasty, insidious, biased and manipulative documentary.

It's managed to turn the heads of quite a lot of people, though - mainly people who clearly weren't paying attention at the time of the trial and appeals.

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2021, 11:15:42 AM »
Given that the producers were forced to remove the name, it clearly wasn't legal.

As I’ve said before to prove Luke didn’t do it you don’t have to prove who did.

It is, however, legitimate to point out the lack of scrutiny paid to anomalies within the statements of those close to Jodi, if only to underscore how unfairly Luke was treated.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Angelo222

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2021, 11:17:40 AM »

Aye, it obviously was intentional - in keeping with the rest of the content in that nasty, insidious, biased and manipulative documentary.

It's managed to turn the heads of quite a lot of people, though - mainly people who clearly weren't paying attention at the time of the trial and appeals.

People are so gullible.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Parky41

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2021, 11:18:05 AM »
Rolfe on Ms Leans book?

Quote
“I am simply gobsmacked that the time needed for Mrs Bryson to go  look at the house seems to have been airbrushed from the narrative. Her original story was that she drove first to the supermarket, did the shopping, loaded it into the car, then drove to Easthouses where there was a house for sale she was interested in. This wasn't an arranged viewing, she just wanted to take a look at it from the outside. She got a bit lost trying to find the house, but found it, had a look, then drove back home. It was quite clear at that time that she had seen the couple at the eastern end of Roan's Dyke path on her way home, after she'd looked at the house, not on her way to the house.

Why  was it airbrushed? - However. It has always been the case that AB saw this couple on her way home. She was driving towards Morris Road. Looking directly into the path, facing onto LM. From her first account to further clarification of times. That she had left the supermarket around 4.33pm. Aprox: 20-25 mins later she saw this couple. Lot's of missing information? Where is this supermarket? Where did AB stay. Which route did she drive?

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She said she got home, unloaded the car, put away the shopping, and started to make the tea. Then her phone rang and she took a call. She estimated the call came in about half an hour after she got home, at about 6.20. In fact the call was logged on her phone as 6.17, so she was about right. That would put her return home at about 5.45 to 5.50. She originally said she saw the couple at the path about five or ten minutes before she got home, which is about right for the drive from there to her house. This puts the time of the sighting at about 5.35 to 5.45, without any need to reference the supermarket checkout time
.

But one very much does need to reference the checkout times, as all of this information is inclusive. That AB had been shopping, there would be receipts. That AB had received a call from her husband after arriving home. There is a starting point and a finishing point. There is a lot of estimates in between. Nothing more. These times needed to be determined. And where does one start, at the beginning. And upon clarification it was also known that AB had used the ATM. The wheat from the chaff. The starting point, upon completion of the shop, as it was after this shop AB drove to Easthouses.

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The till receipt time of 4.45 (and 31 seconds) tallies with Mrs Bryson's own estimate of what she did, giving her 30 to 35 minutes for the actual shopping in the store (she in fact estimated 35 to 45 minutes) and about an hour in total for the drive to Easthouses (12 to 17 minutes each way), the search for the house for sale, time to look at it, and then the drive back home again. If the bank statement time of 4.32 (and 45 seconds) is used instead, this cuts the time for the actual shopping to only 20 minutes maximum, including queueing up for the till and ringing up the purchases. I suppose it depends on how much she bought, but the till receipt tallies better with her own recollection of how the time went.

Where is the fault of the till receipt? Upon checking AB's account, that Ms Bryson had did her shop, she used the ATM after her shop. As above the ATM was 12mins earlier than the till receipt, something was wrong? If AB's account was to be correct then one of these had to be faulty, and the till receipt time mechanism was out. This has been discussed many times. (will touch on this subject later, of what is actually evident, of "all" of this information that Ms Lean may have)

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However, why does it matter? If you take 13 minutes off the time spent in the supermarket, all this does is add 13 minutes to the time spent looking for and looking at the house for sale, because it doesn't affect the timing of her return home. It moves her arrival in Easthouses 13 minutes earlier, but it doesn't change her departure time. And yet it was on her way out of Easthouses that she was supposed to have seen the couple at the end of
the path!

But you don't take 13mins spent off the time in the supermarket do you? There is no need to, as the till mechanism was out. Let's think about that. AB estimated she had been in the supermarket, as above for, 35-45mins. She had in fact only been in around 20mins, as you clearly deduced by the ATM receipt. These are estimations. Ms Bryson was not keeping tally. Much like the clarification of LM on Newbattle R'd. The police used clear starting and finishing points. The call to the Jones house at 5.32pm and to his friends after 7pm. His estimation was massively out, was it not? This short period turned into over 90mins. His claimed start point and finishing point. However, with LM there was nothing in this wait, was there? That could make him lose track of time??
However - it does change her departure time from Easthouses by 13mins. If one arrives 13mins earlier then they depart 13mins earlier. They arrive home 13mins earlier. And onto estimations yet again of the time in the house. Which clearly showed, that AB had been longer home than her estimate - before her husband called. That is all.
This lady had children, shopping, dinner and so forth - lot's to distract real time.
However again - The times were from leaving the store, to this sighting. 

 
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Using the bank statement time for the completion of the supermarket shop instead of the till receipt gets her arrival in Easthouses to about 16.53, which is exactly the time the prosecution needed Luke to have been seen at the end of the path with Jodi. But that's not when Mrs Bryson said she saw the people at the path!

No it does not - Let us think of other information missing here, that AB's children had been playing up, that she quickly gave up the notion of viewing this house in any detail at all. That upon her arrival in Easthouses, that she pretty much turned around to drive home. This yet again, has been discussed many times. AB arrived in Easthouses then went home again. This part of her journey was mere minutes. The sighting approx: 4.50-55pm, could have been slightly over this but not before. The lane is in Easthouses, AB was in Easthouses.

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Bear in mind that Mrs Bryson was driving her car, with two children in it, one of them only a two-year-old. She didn't stop to scrutinise these people, she simply noticed them as she drove past. The layout of the road is important here. If you're driving south from Easthouses on the road in question, the end of the path is at a fairly sharp bend. In fact at that point the path appears to continue on in a south-west direction while the road makes a fairly sharp left turn to continue in a south-east direction.

At last - Clear cut information. However as you drive along Easthouses Road towards this bend (bearing in mind those children, speed restrictions and of approaching this bend.) You are looking straight onto the entrance of this lane. Here is the important part. This was not simply just two people standing at the entrance, was it? Where is the reason and explanation of why AB's attention was caught momentarily? You are correct there was no scrutinizing. AB, for those brief seconds was focussed upon this male, his actions, It was these very actions that captured her attention. They were odd. There appeared to be some form of altercation. It was this very reason, as to why, AB went forward the next day. Not simply, Just two people.

Quote
Note that a driver coming from this direction is pretty much looking straight up the path for a few moments, and Mrs Bryson would have had a reasonable view of anyone standing at the path entrance, although only for a couple of seconds. (Zoom in to the path itself here. Before you continue to Google Maps) This is what Mrs Bryson originally said she saw. She wouldn't have had much time to see the couple, and she would obviously have had to concentrate on the left-hand bend in front of her, but it's a reasonable enough story
.

It's not a story though, is it - it is the truth is it not? Interestingly here, think of the shade. Of that sandy coloured hair appearing darker. But most of all, think of one person facing out, and another looking right at them. The time it would take for a photograph. Click, there we have what was implanted in AB's mind, that image of LM, the person she ID.

Quote
In order for Mrs Bryson to have seen anyone at that path at 4.53, she must have seen this when she was driving north, towards Easthouses, before she went to look at the house for sale. But driving north you simply can't see what she is supposed to have seen. Driving south, you can see it (although to clock that much detail in the couple of seconds as you drive past is quite a feat), but if she saw this when she was driving south then the time was about 5.40, not 4.53.

And this I'm afraid is nothing short of guff. Where on Earth does Rolfe get this 48mins later from. Dear of dear?! Let's Just make this very simple, yet again. Remove all these IF's - AB drove to Easthouses. The lane and Easthouses are one and the same. Jodi stayed in Easthouses, a minutes walk from this lane. AB was going to view a house which she pretty much gave up on. She drove in and out of Easthouses. Her children were playing up. This part of her journey took no more than 2-3 mins. 4.50-55pm.

The police did not make up the ATM nor faulty till receipt. The police did not make up AB's route. AB did not make up anything. - AB ID LM and got the clothing pretty much 80% accurate. Not spot on, as Rolfe clearly states. There was not scrutinizing. It was LM who captured her attention. His actions for those brief seconds

« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 03:13:55 PM by Parky41 »

Offline Angelo222

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2021, 11:18:44 AM »
Perfectly understandable, IMO. The TV documentary was implying that Luke could well be innocent, so of course possible alternative perpetrators are going to be suggested.

That is not the job of a TV production.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Paranoid Android

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2021, 11:24:32 AM »
Wee question - I can't remember, but would rather not watch the 'documentary' again.

Does it mention SM's refusal to provide the alibi at any point?

Offline faithlilly

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2021, 12:09:43 AM »
Rolfe on Ms Leans book?

Why  was it airbrushed? - However. It has always been the case that AB saw this couple on her way home. She was driving towards Morris Road. Looking directly into the path, facing onto LM. From her first account to further clarification of times. That she had left the supermarket around 4.33pm. Aprox: 20-25 mins later she saw this couple. Lot's of missing information? Where is this supermarket? Where did AB stay. Which route did she drive?
.
The supermarket was Scotmid in Gorebridge. AB lived in the Bryans. At trial AB could not remember what route she took on the 30th.

But one very much does need to reference the checkout times, as all of this information is inclusive. That AB had been shopping, there would be receipts. That AB had received a call from her husband after arriving home. There is a starting point and a finishing point. There is a lot of estimates in between. Nothing more. These times needed to be determined. And where does one start, at the beginning. And upon clarification it was also known that AB had used the ATM. The wheat from the chaff. The starting point, upon completion of the shop, as it was after this shop AB drove to Easthouses.

The starting point is 4.05 when she started out from her home. The finishing point is 6.17 when AB received her husband’s call. The receipt from Scotmid was timed at 4.45pm. I’m reliably informed by someone who worked at Scotmid at the time that all Scotmid tills were linked to a main computer for that shop and that information at end of working day was uploaded to head office and that the tills were never wrong. 

Where is the fault of the till receipt? Upon checking AB's account, that Ms Bryson had did her shop, she used the ATM after her shop. As above the ATM was 12mins earlier than the till receipt, something was wrong? If AB's account was to be correct then one of these had to be faulty, and the till receipt time mechanism was out. This has been discussed many times. (will touch on this subject later, of what is actually evident, of "all" of this information that Ms Lean may have)

An ATM had nothing to do with it. The discrepancy was between the time on AB’s Scotmid receipt and the time that that payment appeared on her bank statement.

But you don't take 13mins spent off the time in the supermarket do you? There is no need to, as the till mechanism was out. Let's think about that. AB estimated she had been in the supermarket, as above for, 35-45mins. She had in fact only been in around 20mins, as you clearly deduced by the ATM receipt. These are estimations. Ms Bryson was not keeping tally. Much like the clarification of LM on Newbattle R'd. The police used clear starting and finishing points. The call to the Jones house at 5.32pm and to his friends after 7pm. His estimation was massively out, was it not? This short period turned into over 90mins. His claimed start point and finishing point. However, with LM there was nothing in this wait, was there? That could make him lose track of time??

There was no ATM receipt.


However - it does change her departure time from Easthouses by 13mins. If one arrives 13mins earlier then they depart 13mins earlier. They arrive home 13mins earlier. And onto estimations yet again of the time in the house. Which clearly showed, that AB had been longer home than her estimate - before her husband called. That is all.
This lady had children, shopping, dinner and so forth - lot's to distract real time.
However again - The times were from leaving the store, to this sighting. 

AB, according to your good self, is pretty bad at estimating the time events occurred. According to her she went from the supermarket to the house that was for sale, getting lost on the way and on to the sighting so the times after she left the supermarket can only be estimates, and not very accurate ones if she is as easily distracted as you say. So with a sighting where 5 minutes either way would negate any value it had to the investigation, how can we possibly be sure AB’s time estimate was correct?

 
No it does not - Let us think of other information missing here, that AB's children had been playing up, that she quickly gave up the notion of viewing this house in any detail at all. That upon her arrival in Easthouses, that she pretty much turned around to drive home. This yet again, has been discussed many times. AB arrived in Easthouses then went home again. This part of her journey was mere minutes. The sighting approx: 4.50-55pm, could have been slightly over this but not before. The lane is in Easthouses, AB was in Easthouses.

There is absolutely no basis for your claim that AB’s children were playing up and there was no planned viewing of the house, AB simply wanted to look at it from outside. That she took some time to find the house also needs to be considered.


At last - Clear cut information. However as you drive along Easthouses Road towards this bend (bearing in mind those children, speed restrictions and of approaching this bend.) You are looking straight onto the entrance of this lane. Here is the important part. This was not simply just two people standing at the entrance, was it? Where is the reason and explanation of why AB's attention was caught momentarily? You are correct there was no scrutinizing. AB, for those brief seconds was focussed upon this male, his actions, It was these very actions that captured her attention. They were odd. There appeared to be some form of altercation. It was this very reason, as to why, AB went forward the next day. Not simply, Just two people.

Again AB didn’t mention her children ‘playing up’ or that there appeared to be an ‘altercation’ between the couple. 
.

It's not a story though, is it - it is the truth is it not? Interestingly here, think of the shade. Of that sandy coloured hair appearing darker. But most of all, think of one person facing out, and another looking right at them. The time it would take for a photograph. Click, there we have what was implanted in AB's mind, that image of LM, the person she ID.

Had the children stopped ‘playing up’ long enough to let her take her ‘photograph’ and what about that sharp corner...not very wise to rubberneck while approaching dangerous corners.

And this I'm afraid is nothing short of guff. Where on Earth does Rolfe get this 48mins later from. Dear of dear?! Let's Just make this very simple, yet again. Remove all these IF's - AB drove to Easthouses. The lane and Easthouses are one and the same. Jodi stayed in Easthouses, a minutes walk from this lane. AB was going to view a house which she pretty much gave up on. She drove in and out of Easthouses. Her children were playing up. This part of her journey took no more than 2-3 mins. 4.50-55pm.

AB’s first two statements were very clear in their timings and those timings were corroborated by other evidence. I’d be interested to know if the bank statement which supposedly showed an earlier checkout time to the receipt was ever disclosed to the defence?

I do find it interesting that your narrative seems to be arguing even with itself. First AB is this easily distracted airhead with the concentration span of a gnat, then she is a super observant Miss Marple who uses her amazing powers of recall to pinpoint to the minute a chance sighting of no significance. Hilarious.


The police did not make up the ATM nor faulty till receipt. The police did not make up AB's route. AB did not make up anything. - AB ID LM and got the clothing pretty much 80% accurate. Not spot on, as Rolfe clearly states. There was not scrutinizing. It was LM who captured her attention. His actions for those brief seconds

There was no ATM...the discrepancy was between the supermarket receipt and AB’s bank statement. By the time AB gave evidence in court she didn’t know her route. Thick Sandy hair, green fishing jacket (definitely not a parka) , green trousers..not even close. In fact AB might have been closer if she had simply guessed.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 12:14:46 AM by faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline William Wallace

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2021, 01:00:58 AM »
I thought you were now saying the murderer was a female?

I can't help but notice that the person you're talking about here is male.

Also, the fact that this person's name was on Jack & Victor's list - that doesn't actually mean anything, in itself.

The person mentioned above is male yes and we know who it is, but I'm not suggesting he did it, although the lack of corroboration of his whereabouts should have at least have made him a person of interest. I do still think it was a female yes.

Offline William Wallace

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2021, 01:14:50 AM »
Hmmm.  A 'suspect list' allowed to be glimpsed in a discredited documentary.

I think your post is unsubstantiated speculation and I find the linking of named individuals distasteful.  If there is a miscarriage of justice being perpetrated here, it lies in the kangaroo court of the internet.

Am I the only one finding all the associated fabrication and the lack of primary sources evident in all of this extremely tiresome.
I am yet to see a valid justification that even hints that Mitchell is anything other than the murderer his trial found him to be.

Mitchell's alibi did not stand up in court because it was a lie and I think much of what has been said in attempts to get him out of jail are from the same stable. 

In my short experience of this case I am dizzy from the rotation and number of named individuals who have been put under the spotlight by internet detectives - none of which stood up when looked at by the real police.

Discredited documentary @)(++(*

« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 12:37:57 AM by William Wallace »

Offline William Wallace

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2021, 01:24:07 AM »
Given that the producers were forced to remove the name, it clearly wasn't legal.

Funny that, when nobody moaned about other names being on view. MK's name has been mentioned everywhere except desert islands but nobody complained about that before he died. The person's name that did it wasn't on that list anyway.

Offline WakeyWakey

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2021, 02:19:32 AM »
Funny that, when nobody moaned about other names being on view. MK's name has been mentioned everywhere except desert islands but nobody complained about that before he died. The person's name that did it wasn't on that list anyway.

he complained about that himself before he died, extensively. used to post on the original miscarriage of justice web page. contacted the police about being hounded and assualted by SF. posted on this forum to that effect.

we can speculate how it's not widely known that all this happened, but the answer is probably as depressing as "he was a vulnerable drug user who didn't have a broad support network of close friends and family"

Offline Brietta

Re: THE ALIBI.
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2021, 02:53:05 AM »
Discredited documentary @)(++(*.  Answer this one then. We'll leave aside the "disappearing" AO statement seeing as you don't think these nice straight Police would ever have conveniently left something crucial in a locked drawer until the Trial was over. AO arrived home from work at about 440pm. Ju J said Jodi and Jo J were in the house when he came in and he was still in when Jodi went out supposedly to meet Luke. AO's importance as a witness at that stage was no more and no less than Ju J's, so why was AO never cited to give evidence in Court to verify Ju J's statement?

Let me put it bluntly to you that you are making up your own factoids based on your observation of two "nice straight Police" flashing libel on screen in the discredited Channel5 documentary.

I asked you for the source of your assertion that "We recently find out that a statement made by him was "discovered" later, maybe years later and was clearly put in a locked drawer in 2003."

In return you gave me your opinion and supposition instead of a reliable source ~ and that simply isn't good enough for the expectations of this forum, the members and visitors who perhaps anticipate finding accurate and reliable information here. 

I find this myth you are promulgating as fact about a witness statement being secreted in a locked drawer outrageous, particularly when it is dovetailed with the distrust you are projecting on named individuals in your posts.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....