https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4635087/madeleine-mccann-investigation-critical-witness-portugal/It could be what she knows, what she has been told, what she has seen.
Published 7th Oct 2017
"Sources say she lived near the holiday flat in Praia da Luz on the Algarve from which Madeleine, then aged three, vanished in May 2007 but left the country after her husband’s death.
Scotland Yard’s £12million Operation Grange hunt for Madeleine was kept open with an extra £154,000 to trace the woman.
A source said: “She may have seen or heard something which to her may seem insignificant but to us could prove vital. If she recognises herself she should contact police. She has nothing to fear. This is just to eliminate her from enquiries."
A source close to Operation Grange, launched in 2011, described the woman as a “critical line of inquiry’’.
So if this woman is such a 'critical line of enquiry' why aren't SY appealing for her to come forward on their website, or Facebook page or Twitter feed ? As 'the source' says she has nothing to fear.
Further why do they need £154,000 to find her as they must be aware of her name as why would an innocent person change it ?
It could be what she knows, what she has been told, what she has seen.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4635087/madeleine-mccann-investigation-critical-witness-portugal/
Published 7th Oct 2017
"Sources say she lived near the holiday flat in Praia da Luz on the Algarve from which Madeleine, then aged three, vanished in May 2007 but left the country after her husband’s death.
Scotland Yard’s £12million Operation Grange hunt for Madeleine was kept open with an extra £154,000 to trace the woman.
A source said: “She may have seen or heard something which to her may seem insignificant but to us could prove vital. If she recognises herself she should contact police. She has nothing to fear. This is just to eliminate her from enquiries."
A source close to Operation Grange, launched in 2011, described the woman as a “critical line of inquiry’’.
So if this woman is such a 'critical line of enquiry' why aren't SY appealing for her to come forward on their website, or Facebook page or Twitter feed ? As 'the source' says she has nothing to fear.
Further why do they need £154,000 to find her as they must be aware of her name as why would an innocent person change it ?
OR simply nothing of any consequence whatsoever.You seem to look at the glass as half empty rather than half full.
So is this the reason for £150,000 ?
You seem to look at the glass as half empty rather than half full.
Come on Rob,six years, multi millions,Grange are now reduced to a sauce,really?It hasn't been easy.
It hasn't been easy.
You seem to look at the glass as half empty rather than half full.
Any one who thought finding an alleged abductor which hasn't even been proved to exist is/was deluded.imoThat is the case in any abduction the finding and existence go hand in hand.
What has this investigation achieved other than wild speculation, and let's not forget the sources.....................Think of all the people that have been eliminated. To eliminate someone must be an achievement.
Meanwhile......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4959766/Police-searching-Madeleine-McCann-critical-witness.html
Think of all the people that have been eliminated. To eliminate someone must be an achievement.
You are still presuming there was an abduction Rob, and you know my views on that.I was talking generally.
Think of all the people that have been eliminated. To eliminate someone must be an achievement.
Not if it was likely a dead cert that these people were not involved in the first place.There were guys in 5C during the day were they eliminated? How can you say who is a "dead cert"?
I was talking generally.
That is the case in any abduction the finding and existence generally go hand in hand.
There were guys in 5C during the day were they eliminated? How can you say who is a "dead cert"?
There were guys in 5C during the day were they eliminated? How can you say who is a "dead cert"?
That is the case in any abduction the finding and existence go hand in hand.
There were people in 5a also have they been eliminated, I know you'll point out they are not suspects,but have they been eliminated?Well all the forensic evidence from 5A came back inconclusive or negative, so they ended up with no evidence at all.
Neither has happened yet.
A cite for that and I might agree, especially in the case of Madeleine McCann which this part of the board is all about.
Many of these people would have already been eliminated by the PJ, so why would they need to be cleared again, when you consider that OG was quite happy to accept the PJ work over the tapas 9 without any concern or re-examination.
That does beggar the question.
Let's not forget Murat either, who was supposed to have been eliminated the first time.
So why weren't the Mccann's or their associates re-questioned formally , as he was.
Only those directing OG could answer that. They are the ones who decide what evidence/information is relative or not and which direction the investigation will take.
Is that your own thought?
It is a pity they didn't take note of the original shelving inquiry and what it stated.
There is also a line of thought, that SY are doing a blinder and eliminating abduction.
Is that your own thought?
An insider said: “Detectives have scoured Europe looking for this woman who is thought to hold the key to solving the entire case.
It is a pity they didn't take note of the original shelving inquiry and what it stated.
There is also a line of thought, that SY are doing a blinder and eliminating abduction.
If this were the case, they would have got to that stage before now.
Even if you have eliminated everybody but X, it is still necessary to prove that X is guilty.
It is a pity they didn't take note of the original shelving inquiry and what it stated.
There is also a line of thought, that SY are doing a blinder and eliminating abduction.
It's interesting that while the McCanns, via their spokesperson, had expressed their hope that the funding would be granted ( several hours after it was announced that funding had been granted but let's not get bogged down in the detail) when it was granted, not a peep from them. Odd !
Indeed Faithlilly.They can't win.
The silence is deafening.
However, The Sunday Times understands Met detectives have been relying on Portuguese transcripts of key interviews with British witnesses, rather than conducting their own.
Operation Grange has conducted no formal witness interviews with Gerry or Kate McCann or the seven friends they dined with on the night Madeleine disappeared
However, The Sunday Times understands that Met detectives have been relying on Portuguese transcripts of key interviews with British witnesses, rather than conducting their own.
Operation Grange has conducted no formal witness interviews with Gerry or Kate McCann or the seven friends they dined with on the night Madeleine disappeared.
They can't win.
Why should they ?I meant it in more of the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation they would be in.
I meant it in more of the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation they would be in.
Why would they be 'damned' if they simply thanked the appropriate authorities for allowing more public money to be spent on the investigation?from what I've seen no matter what the McCanns do it will be turned as something to be held against them. Surely you know that.
from what I've seen no matter what the McCanns do it will be turned as something to be held against them. Surely you know that.
Not if it was likely a dead cert that these people were not involved in the first place.What makes you so full of it being a dead cert?
If this were the case, they would have got to that stage before now.
Even if you have eliminated everybody but X, it is still necessary to prove that X is guilty.
What makes you so full of it being a dead cert?
OG and Porto Pj seem to be far more open minded than you, and what is more, appear to be homing in nicely
Why would they be 'damned' if they simply thanked the appropriate authorities for allowing more public money to be spent on the investigation?Oh, they would be damned alright.
Oh, they would be damned alright.
Every time they speak or appear or appeal there is a multitude of trolls ready there, just waiting to pounce and put the boot in as hard as they can.
And often in an organised manner. It is really sick. They obviously dont want Madeleine to have a chance of being found.
Did you, stephen, ever get round to answering those two simple questions I asked you?
To remind you:
Can you tell me, stephen, if Madeleine is out there, do you want her back?
Can you tell me stephen, if they find an abductor/s, do you want him/them brought to Justice?
Please answer individually . Yes or no to each will do, although please feel free to add any bits you wish.
As I believe in (decent) Freedom of Speech, I will not automatically be deleting your answer as some repeatedly do to me.
I did, to your goading.Please guide me, cos I haven't seen your answers
Why didn't you read it, it's still there, listed in my posts.
Likewise, why didn't you answer the questions I set you ?
Please guide me, cos I haven't seen your answers
Your answers first - after you have answered mine, if you please.
I asked first
Oh, they would be damned alright.
Every time they speak or appear or appeal there is a multitude of trolls ready there, just waiting to pounce and put the boot in as hard as they can.
And often in an organised manner. It is really sick. They obviously dont want Madeleine to have a chance of being found.
Did you, stephen, ever get round to answering those two simple questions I asked you?
To remind you:
Can you tell me, stephen, if Madeleine is out there, do you want her back?
Can you tell me stephen, if they find an abductor/s, do you want him/them brought to Justice?
Please answer individually . Yes or no to each will do, although please feel free to add any bits you wish.
As I believe in (decent) Freedom of Speech, I will not automatically be deleting your answer as some repeatedly do to me.
It goes without saying Sadie that any right minded person would want to see Madeleine returned safely to her family and if someone was responsible, to see that person or persons prosecuted according to the law. If she is deceased, the family need closure and to grieve and that can only happen when she is returned to them. Anything else is unthinkable and unimaginable imho.It would be valuable to the forum for Stephen to plainly answer Sadie's questions. I have tried to follow that point back to the beginning and the original questions were deleted.
It would be valuable to the forum for Stephen to plainly answer Sadie's questions. I have tried to follow that point back to the beginning and the original questions were deleted.
I did Rob.
I now await her replies.
these were the questions:
Can you tell me, stephen, if Madeleine is out there, do you want her back?
Can you tell me stephen, if they find an abductor/s, do you want him/them brought to Justice?
I don't think they are simple questions or simple answers. but they represent two classes of outcomes or cases, Case 1 and Case 2 in coding. You can't introduce other cases as you did even though other cases do exist.
these were the questions:Sadie these were Stephens answers:
Can you tell me, stephen, if Madeleine is out there, do you want her back?
Can you tell me stephen, if they find an abductor/s, do you want him/them brought to Justice?
I don't think they are simple questions or simple answers. but they represent two classes of outcomes or cases, Case 1 and Case 2 in coding. You can't introduce other cases as you did even though other cases do exist.
Maybe had they got on a plane to Portugal and organised a proper campaign to elicit information about the disappearance instead of employing a bunch of crooked PI's then they might just have attracted some sympathy from those who would otherwise condemn them. Don't hold your breath though!
You make it sound as if McCanns deliberately employed crooked PI's imo. They were the victims of conman Halligen - along with his other victims.
I doubt if the McCanns themselves had much to do with the choice of PI's - as they would have no expertise on that subject imo - and would have to rely on advice from others.
What is it that you think the McCanns could have done in Portugal to elicit more information - other than what they had already put in place - i.e. billboards etc asking for info?
Thanks to the vile press campaign conducted against them assisted by 'leaks' from the PJ - they were more likely to receive abuse from hostile, misinformed members of the public rather than their co-operation imo.
So - how does this 'proper campaign' you mention work? You don't give any details.
AIMHO
You make it sound as if McCanns deliberately employed crooked PI's imo. They were the victims of conman Halligen - along with his other victims.
I doubt if the McCanns themselves had much to do with the choice of PI's - as they would have no expertise on that subject imo - and would have to rely on advice from others.
What is it that you think the McCanns could have done in Portugal to elicit more information - other than what they had already put in place - i.e. billboards etc asking for info?
Thanks to the vile press campaign conducted against them assisted by 'leaks' from the PJ - they were more likely to receive abuse from hostile, misinformed members of the public rather than their co-operation imo.
So - how does this 'proper campaign' you mention work? You don't give any details.
AIMHO
The McCanns appeared to learn very quickly how to run an 'awareness campaign' using posters, social media and the press. When it came to hiring Private Investigators they appear to have learned nothing. They have consistently complained about 'the few' who have been critical of them, but I have never heard them complain about the heartless ripping off of the Fund money by dodgy detectives. They have an unusual set of priorities in my opinion.
In my opinion many of the 'Critical Leads' of the time appear to have been ignored by the investigating team responsible for chasing them up.
Nor in my opinion should it ever become the responsibility of the victims of crime to have to mount their own investigation and the more information which became available the more the investigative omissions which forced the McCanns to do just that became apparent.
Snip
Gail Cooper reported the stranger to police four days after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and gave a statement at her home two weeks later, but the link wasn’t made between the mysterious stranger and the sightings of a man carrying a pyjama-clad child by Jane Tanner and the family of Martin Smith until a UK Sunday newspaper conducted a detailed review of the case, which was read by a member of the McCann team.
The question immediately arose that, if police working under the direction of DCI Amaral from Portimao had considered the theory that Madeleine had wandered from the apartment that night and been carried off by a passing stranger, surely a subsequent call to the public for reports of suspicious itinerants in the community would have started the search for this man sooner?
Danny Collins
VANISHED
Just as the newspaper review highlighted the deficiencies in the initial investigation into Madeleine's case necessitating the McCanns to join the dots with critical leads ignored at the time; Operation Grange discovered many other witnesses and leads which required investigation and justified reopening Madeleine's case.
The Home Office, Scotland Yard and the Portuguese authorities are the only ones who know exactly where the investigation has gone from there and in my opinion reliance on media rehashes is as pointless as its likely inaccuracy.
Better to wait for the official statement.
It has crossed my mind that the police may be more interested in what this sought-after witness can tell them about her late husband's life & the circumstances surrounding his death.
It has crossed my mind that the police may be more interested in what this sought-after witness can tell them about her late husband's life & the circumstances surrounding his death.
Have you anything to lead your thoughts in that direction Misty?
What is it they have done to make you think they appear to have learned nothing about PI's?
As we don't know all the details re Halligan - we don't know what the McCanns priorities were at the time. I can understand why they were careful what they said about him before he was tried and found guilty as charged. At the time Kate wrote her book he was still on remand in Ireland - fighting extradition to the USA and denying all the charges. They could not see into the future and so publicly making accusations against him may well have been libellous at that time.
I think it goes without saying that they would be deeply upset about his criminal activities when it came to the fund. Why anyone would think anything other than that is beyond me.
Even if their priorities were different to yours - doesn't automatically make them wrong - it just makes them different to yours.
AIMHO
Just the mysterious death of someone else connected to a POI in this case (and no, I won't be naming the deceased)
Mysterious? He was killed by a tractor. Nothing very 'mysterious' about that.
Ah Danny Collins the intrepid churnalist who, in his book, claimed that the McCanns had been on a two week holiday and perhaps do you think the REAL police didn't join the dots between Cooper's sighting and Madeleine's disappearance because there was no dots to join?
Maybe the Police, you refer to, didn't join the dots because wrong decisions were made at the beginning?
And because the main thrust of the search was not for a living Madeleine but for dead body ?
Amaral is on record as having decided the day after Madeleine went that he was looking for a dead body and NOT a living child.
How come he ignored
- the bunch of sightings up in the Porto - Guimares area
- the children who had been assaulted in their own holiday apartments with their parents asleep in the next bedroom
- the group of young children who were taken /vanished in the Algarve, one every 18 months or so
- the string of pre-pubescent children who vanished roughly every 18 months, some around Porto / Guimares and some within 25 miles of PdL ? Why did he ignore these missing children?
Historical happenings could in certain cases help solve crimes such as these. Why wasn't Amaral interested?
Maybe the Police, you refer to, didn't join the dots because wrong decisions were made at the beginning?
And because the main thrust of the search was not for a living Madeleine but for dead body ?
Amaral is on record as having decided the day after Madeleine went that he was looking for a dead body and NOT a living child.
How come he ignored
- the bunch of sightings up in the Porto - Guimares area
- the children who had been assaulted in their own holiday apartments with their parents asleep in the next bedroom
- the group of young children who were taken /vanished in the Algarve, one every 18 months or so
- the string of pre-pubescent children who vanished roughly every 18 months, some around Porto / Guimares and some within 25 miles of PdL ? Why did he ignore these missing children?
Historical happenings could in certain cases help solve crimes such as these. Why wasn't Amaral interested?
After 10 years you do not yet understand that Gonçalo Amaral did not lead the investigation, he did not decide what leads or clues to follow.
Also please cite where Amaral said that he was looking for a body from the first day. As for these allegations that children had been vanishing every 18 months in the Algarve, I will just say that someone's imagination is running wild.
Amaral is quite clear in his book;
"Two deputy national directors....will direct the investigations."
His role was to assist them.
Maybe the Police, you refer to, didn't join the dots because wrong decisions were made at the beginning?
And because the main thrust of the search was not for a living Madeleine but for dead body ?
Amaral is on record as having decided the day after Madeleine went that he was looking for a dead body and NOT a living child.
How come he ignored
- the bunch of sightings up in the Porto - Guimares area
- the children who had been assaulted in their own holiday apartments with their parents asleep in the next bedroom
- the group of young children who were taken /vanished in the Algarve, one every 18 months or so
- the string of pre-pubescent children who vanished roughly every 18 months, some around Porto / Guimares and some within 25 miles of PdL ? Why did he ignore these missing children?
Historical happenings could in certain cases help solve crimes such as these. Why wasn't Amaral interested?
After 10 years you do not yet understand that Gonçalo Amaral did not lead the investigation, he did not decide what leads or clues to follow.
Also please cite where Amaral said that he was looking for a body from the first day. As for these allegations that children had been vanishing every 18 months in the Algarve, I will just say that someone's imagination is running wild.
Who was responsible for the request to make the McCanns arguidos on 7/9/2007, given that Tavares de Almeida's interim report containing the "theseis" and addressed to the co-ordinator of the investigation was dated 10/9/07 and signed by the MP 11/9/07?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLyrijBWkAA5UUN.jpg)
All formal steps in an investigation are referred up for authorisation. I accept that I don't know the exact protocols in Portugal but Amaral would not have had the authority to designate anyone as arguido, he would have had to have sought permission from the upper echelons of the Faro police service.
Is this really what you believe the OG are doing.
Such a cheap shot at an investigating police force.
This post is more reminiscent of posts that would be shown on forums of much less calibre than this one.
Is this really what you believe the OG are doing.
Such a cheap shot at an investigating police force.
This post is more reminiscent of posts that would be shown on forums of much less calibre than this one.
Do you think Joao Carlos was higher in the chain of command than Amaral, as pages 2565 - 6 have Carlos's name on them?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-ARGUIDO.htm
Is this really what you believe the OG are doing.
Such a cheap shot at an investigating police force.
This post is more reminiscent of posts that would be shown on forums of much less calibre than this one.
Operation Grange had the chance to show how to rescue an investigation which was abandoned. Instead they chased after charity collectors, burglars, and sex offenders in a seemingly vain effort to find an abductor. If they are mocked for their biased investigation they have only themselves to blame imo.
Everyone is entitled to a view so I'm not sure if Pathfinder really believes that or just wants to add some black humour to a dull subject.
Pathfinder got it from Twitter....need we say any more?
No.I like a little humour now and then even if I don't agree with the picture it paints.
I like a little humour now and then even if I don't agree with the picture it paints.
Visiting Transylvania seems to be more in keeping with the coffin theory.....Surely Count Dracula had nothing to do with it!
I like a little humour now and then even if I don't agree with the picture it paints.
Trace, Investigate, Evaluate - that's how UK police work. There's absolutely no point in placing all the eggs in one basket in case the basket has a hole in it.
Just not in tune with my sense of humour.
Love Have I got news for you.
Would I lie to you.
And my all-time favourite Yes Minister and Yes Prime minister.
Nothing funny in the investigation of a missing child..
Perhaps makes me a party pooper.
i think it's called black humour like this award-winning cartoon about Hillsborough.
Not at a
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/dave-brown-wins-cartoonist-of-year-at-uk-press-awards-2013-8525601.html#gallery
You have to know so much background before it is funny - Hillsborough?
i think it's called black humour like this award-winning cartoon about Hillsborough.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/dave-brown-wins-cartoonist-of-year-at-uk-press-awards-2013-8525601.html#gallery
To be fair, Operation Grange don't have an awfully good record of achieving any follow-through in this case what with everything that has happened since they started to investigate Madeleine's disappearance. You really can't blame some folks for being cynical every time a hot new lead is announced by The Sun. @)(++(*
According to Kate McCann's book the Chief Constable of LP intervened with the media in 2007;[/b]
"On 17 September, the chief constable wrote to newspapers and broadcasters urging restraint, to little effect. On 8 October he sent a further letter, again making it clear that much of the media coverage simply had no foundation and that rumour appeared to have taken precedence over due diligence."
I wonder if the Met have tried to rein the media in during their investigation? If so, it seems to have had no more effect than those previous attempts.
I think you misjudge the point of some political cartoons.
I see that as more thought-provoking than funny ha ha.
And incidentally clever in its execution.
[/b]
Didn't the PT team threaten to cease their re-investigations if our press 'abused' them (words to that effect) - resulting in a plea for responsible reporting from Kate McCann? (from memory).
As I recall Scotland Yard appealed for restraint because the PJ threatened to pull out if the UK press ran wild with speculation, but I can't find it just now. I don't recall Kate McCann's input.
We're all going off memory. Mine is that there were two different situations. One was the UK police requesting media back-off due to PT sensitivities, and the other was Kate over photos that had somehow got leaked over potential supsects.
Q: There was a report recently that there was an international manhunt in regards to a person you
were interested in talking to, maybe not even a suspect, maybe a witness?
MR: There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are
nonsense.
Mark Rowley recently had this to say in the question and answer session back in April.
There appears to have been an appeal of some sort on German TV.
That's just a picture of the 2013 Crimewatch programme the full story here;
https://www.theepochtimes.com/report-madeleine-mccann-investigators-hunting-person-of-significance_2323908.html
There appears to have been an appeal of some sort on German TV.
My mistake, I didn't notice the date under the picture. Here is the article from today which I used.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/madeleine-mccann-case-police-searching-for-eastern-european-woman-report-says_2331443.html
There appears to have been an appeal of some sort on German TV.yes. I looked into all of this and the age progressed image was in the paper over there. This prompted a sighting of a lady who had a child that matched that image and the guy reported it to OG. He did some investigation of his own. It will be amazing if we are discussing the same person and OG is looking for the person he met with the daughter who looked like Madeleine at 9 years of age.
Trace, Investigate, Evaluate - that's how UK police work. There's absolutely no point in placing all the eggs in one basket in case the basket has a hole in it.
Like the abduction theory being played as fact? one egg - one basket- full of holes!
You forgot to add IMO at the end of your post.
Back to the topic. The critical lead, perhaps the last straw in the hay barn, will turn out to be something of nothing... PJ are still saying nothing... the only reason OG talk is to ask for more money. The McCanns are silent. perhaps the calm before the storm?Is that IYO, or do you know that?
In my opinion there really can't be much of a chance of anyone who isn't privy to the inner workings of the reopened PJ and SY investigation to pick up on anything about the lead we have been told is currently being followed.How interesting. Thanks for finding that Brietta.
There was just so much information from the time which was swishing around ignored ... which may or may not have been reported to Operation grange but if it was, would take time to collate and which may have slotted into something else to lead off in an entirely different direction from any we know of.
I have dwelt on the fact that Mr and Mrs Moyes who were out and about around the time of Madeleine's disappearance might have seen something of relevance without even knowing it ... but despite being resident in the apartment block from which Madeleine disappeared, were not interviewed by the police.
The other night I discovered they were not the only family who may have had a story to tell ... but it seems they, like the Moyes had no-one to tell it to.
Crucial Madeleine McCann case questions that remain unanswered after a decade
Irish journalist John McGee was holidaying in Praia da Luz when the little girl went missing. In a compelling account, he says we seem to be no nearer to the truth
May 2 2017
Snip
Somewhat oblivious to what was unfolding on the streets below us, my wife and I and our daughter, who was only a few months older than Madeleine, went to bed in the Estrela da Luz apartment complex a couple of hundred yards from where Madeleine disappeared.
Having just returned from dinner in a nearby restaurant, we could hear commotion four floors below us on the street. It eventually moved on to another street and, thinking nothing of it, we headed for our wine-induced and, in hindsight, selfish slumber.
*******************************************************************************************
A little English girl has gone missing overnight, we were told by one of the women working on the reception of the apartment complex. Hastily printed photos of a pretty, young blonde child had been left at hotel and apartment reception desks. This was the same Madeleine McCann we had seen tagging along with her mother as she pushed her twins in a double buggy up the hill. This was happening to the same family we had passed on several occasions days before as we walked down towards the supermarket. This was the same Gerry McCann we had seen playing tennis several days earlier.
*******************************************************************************************
At no stage of the initial investigation, however, did local police attempt to interview us or anyone in our apartment complex, despite its proximity to the Ocean Club resort. In our case, certain things we had witnessed over the previous week and indeed on the night of Madeleine's disappearance might have been of use to them.
The suspicious looking characters hanging around Hugo Beatty's bar two nights earlier - one of whom resembled the identikit photo issued by the Metropolitan Police years later; the pick-up-style truck that sped past us as we walked back to the apartment from the restaurant that fateful night; the elderly bearded man videoing children at a nearby theme park three days before.
At the time, their possible significance meant nothing to us, but they might have been of some help. It was only when we arrived back in Dublin five days later that we felt compelled to volunteer statements to the gardai, who then passed them on to Interpol, by then already on the case. Presumably, Interpol then passed them on to the Portuguese police.
In addition, the many photos we had taken during our holiday that might have provided clues or identified 'people of interest' in and around Praia da Luz and Lagos were uploaded to a website that was set up by the investigation. We never heard anything back from the Portuguese police, who in July 2008 officially closed the case.
*******************************************************************************************
... the Find Madeleine campaign never gave up hope, and a concerted effort was made to keep it in the headlines, something that irked the Portuguese police considerably.
*******************************************************************************************
Of particular interest to the Metropolitan Police was the speeding pick-up truck that flew past us on the way home from the restaurant and the three suspicious looking in Hugo Beatty's bar. It later emerged that two waiters working in the restaurant also noticed a man acting suspiciously in a phone box across the road earlier in the evening. And one of the subsequent identikit photos published by the Metropolitan Police of two men they wanted to talk to resembled one of the men we'd spotted in the bar.
After carrying out a cell-dump of all mobile phone activity in the Praia da Luz area in the lead-up to Madeleine's disappearance and the days after, the Metropolitan Police were also able to identify all the telephone numbers we dialled, as well as the numbers that had dialled us during that period. As is the norm in such cases, details of all calls made and received were submitted as part of our statements.
The use of cell-dumps has helped police gain convictions in several high-profile murder cases in the past, and nowadays cell-dumps are almost as useful to the police as fingerprints or DNA. It was later reported by several UK newspapers that the cell-dump turned up a large number of telephone calls and texts in and around the Ocean Club between a group of men around the time of Madeleine's disappearance. Nothing ever came of it.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/crucial-madeleine-mccann-case-questions-that-remain-unanswered-after-a-decade-35670997.html
I'd never heard of that potential witness before now ... one wonders how many similar stories there may be which were not heard in May 2007 ... and one wonders if there might have been one which might have provided the key to part of the puzzle which would have found Madeleine.
Back to the topic. The critical lead, perhaps the last straw in the hay barn, will turn out to be something of nothing... PJ are still saying nothing... the only reason OG talk is to ask for more money. The McCanns are silent. perhaps the calm before the storm?
Old stuiff Mistaken. Do you really want us to keep going over it?
This was brought to my attention. It is actually a really good well balanced piece for the DM... surprisingly.
The headline...
The TWO vital Maddie questions: Why didn't the Met quiz the McCanns again and who was the woman in purple?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5048349/The-TWO-vital-Maddie-questions.html?mrn_rm=rta.
This was brought to my attention. It is actually a really good well balanced piece for the DM... surprisingly.
The headline...
The TWO vital Maddie questions: Why didn't the Met quiz the McCanns again and who was the woman in purple?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5048349/The-TWO-vital-Maddie-questions.html?mrn_rm=rta.
The Mail is fixated on the woman in purple;Jane Tanner was wearing Russells fleece cos it was cold. Was that purple?
The TWO vital Maddie questions: Why didn't the Met quiz the McCanns again and who was the woman in purple?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5048349/The-TWO-vital-Maddie-questions.html#ixzz4xT8c7C6V
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
They could ask Jeremy Wilkins on Jane Tanner;
I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
Two women wearing purple or one woman seen by two people?
Who is this latest journalist? What can be substantiated beyond the fact that there was apparently a woman in a purplish top somewhere in the vicinity?
Personally, I don't pay much attention to such phrases as "it is understood / believed that..." in the tabloids.
Anyone could submit an article stating that it is widely believed / understood that the moon is made of blue cheese, or perhaps pumpkin at the moment (as it seems to be the season for the clickbait key word "pumpkin").
It's not defamatory towards the McCanns, but questions the Met's continued investigation into what appears to be the last lead.
I can't find anything to substantiate that the woman in purple is still a lead, let alone that the Met would be criss-crossing around Europe to interview her.
Nor can I find anything substantiated to the contrary... so perhaps the moon is indeed made of pumpkin.
Jane Tanner was wearing Russells fleece cos it was cold. Was that purple?
Nor I , which makes for awful lot of stuff to be ignored then consigned to the wpb.
Do you know of any other case with so much chaff and so few facts?
I don't know, TBH. I'd only ever come across tabloids left in a train seat or elsewhere of a similar nature.
Back in my innocent days, I used to think that the press adhered to a code of ethics.
Boy, was I depressed when I realised what crap they could come up with that people don't question concerning the content... even worse, rarely read beyond the headline.
However... perhaps this case woke me up to be more attentive to potential BS.
Jane Tanner was wearing Russells fleece cos it was cold. Was that purple?
Yes , I agree. most of from the Murdoch/McCann sun- the paper favoured by the McCann PR. you know Serialising the book and Rebecca Brooks getting the government involved with the McCanns. I posted the link because I saw the headline. and the piece did go over old ground, but it wasn't overly gushing of the family.
I found the video link along with this to be of more interest to be honest.
The clip that I could see appears to date back to when it was when the Met agreed to open an investigation (unless you see a different clip).
Whatever one thinks of the McCanns, what Gerry said is true: the PT investigation did have to shut down due to deadlines.
Old stuiff Mistaken. Do you really want us to keep going over it?
Very old.
Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;
Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm
It wasn't shut down- it was archived! and they could have had it re opened any time. He failed to say why it was archived but we get then from the police investigation- they could not find any evidence of an abductor.
So are we all agreed that we believe it was Jane who was staring at the apartment and who was seen wearing purple? so are SY onto a blinder?
Yes, thanks for taking the time to dig that out again.
As far as I know, O'Brien isn't Bulgarian, nor has Jane disappeared.
I'm well aware that it was archived... it went into cold-case mode pending anything new that was credible, pertinent, relevant and presumably actionable.
My understanding is that until the Met flagged up all kinds of potential leads, the PT side had nothing concrete to warrant re-opening the case on their side.
Their hands were tied, even though I've no doubt that they would have dearly wanted to get to the bottom of the case.
Q: There was a report recently that there was an international manhunt in regards to a person you were interested in talking to, maybe not even a suspect, maybe a witness?
MR: There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense.
So somebody says @)(++(*
A pic in that DM article - irony?
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/11/03/21/45FC1FA700000578-0-image-a-20_1509744720793.jpg)
Looking for a woman in purple and the Mail duly prints one.
The question being did she borrow his fleece before they went out or later when she realised she was cold? If it was before they could have had one each, because he had more than one with him.I am happy to accept your reasoning there ?{)(**, altho if she had packed expecting warm weather per usual in the Algarve, she might have needed to borrow from Russell before they left for the Tapas restaurant
On the evening I was wearing brown jeans/cord style trousers, a pale blue stripe top, and Jane had taken my jumper which was blue. The nights were quite chilly which is why Jane had my jumper I am quite use to the cold.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm
Yet they don't seem to have led anywhere, so perhaps they were more wishful thinking than concrete ideas.
The question being did she borrow his fleece before they went out or later when she realised she was cold? If it was before they could have had one each, because he had more than one with him.
On the evening I was wearing brown jeans/cord style trousers, a pale blue stripe top, and Jane had taken my jumper which was blue. The nights were quite chilly which is why Jane had my jumper I am quite use to the cold.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_RIGATORY.htm
DETECTIVES hunting for Madeleine McCann have travelled to Bulgaria to pursue a new lead, we can reveal
Oh! dear is the much vaunted (by some) Scotland Yard leaking like a sieve, or remember what Rowley had to say as regards newspaper reports.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4843610/madeleine-mccann-woman-in-purple-bulgaria/
Was that the bit about it mostly being rubbish?
This latest effort certainly is, rubbish that is. OGs four men and maybe a dog criss crossing Europe to find a Bulgarian woman who may or may not be a widow her (late?) husband (was) is some sort of German or East European who may be or (may not have been) a convicted paedophile.
And to cap it all:
"A source told The Sun: 'There is no evidence they were involved but it would be good to eliminate them from the investigation.' "
And yet another gold mine full of pyrites.
I guess it's good for about 90 pages of how the initiated have worked out what the subliminal message is and everyone else is a dodo........... @)(++(*
It does seem to be just a tag coincidental that the Carpenters identified a woman in purple seen outside block 5 as being Jane Tanner yet Scotland Yard are off traipsing around Bulgaria looking for said woman in purple?Do you know if her flip flops were purple too?
Is it beyond the bounds of possibility that there were two WOMEN IN PURPLE lurking around block 5 on the night that Madeleine disappeared?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5048349/The-TWO-vital-Maddie-questions.html
(http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/jane_small.jpg) (http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Tappas9/JS.jpg)
I can't believe the BS that's printed. Slim purple Jenny Murat sighting woman has turned into a wobbly fat woman. Lawton is a clown - right at home in this circus.
Madeleine McCann 'snatched by wobbly fat woman and is still alive', psychic claims.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/657850/Maddie-McCann-psychic-claims-tot-still-alive-after-being-snatched-child-trafficker
This woman has been peddling her theories for some time;
https://twitter.com/foyermagazine/status/542648722703020033?lang=en
This woman has been peddling her theories for some time;
https://twitter.com/foyermagazine/status/542648722703020033?lang=en
I can't believe the BS that's printed. Slim purple Jenny Murat sighting woman has turned into a wobbly fat woman. Lawton is a clown - right at home in this circus.
Madeleine McCann 'snatched by wobbly fat woman and is still alive', psychic claims.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/657850/Maddie-McCann-psychic-claims-tot-still-alive-after-being-snatched-child-trafficker
.
.
It seems "woman in purple" is NOT the woman who was married with the paedophile.
Thank you for that, Heri. Do you know if sources are aware of the identity of the Bulgarian woman & also if her deceased husband was ever questioned by the PJ? (given the PJ stated in the archiving report they had traced & interviewed all known local paedophiles).
I thought Heri said the woman was not the wife of a paedophile?
I'm a bit confused as to how many women there are. There is the woman in purple, the Bulgarian woman married to a dead German paedophile who first reportedly lived near 5a but now apparently only worked near there, & finally the large cleaner (Yvonne Albino) who used to visit a house with an orange grove where a couple of dodgy teachers, who associated with fat gypsies, were known to live.
I'm a bit confused as to how many women there are. There is the woman in purple, the Bulgarian woman married to a dead German paedophile who first reportedly lived near 5a but now apparently only worked near there, & finally the large cleaner (Yvonne Albino) who used to visit a house with an orange grove where a couple of dodgy teachers, who associated with fat gypsies, were known to live.
CdM's take on the story.
British police investigating the disappearance of Maddie McCann in the Algarve in 2007 have moved to Bulgaria in an attempt to locate the widow of a pedophile, the British press reports. Nicknamed 'woman in purple', she would live in Praia da Luz, Lagos, with her partner, who would be German or Eastern Europe. They stopped being seen in the Algarve shortly after the disappearance of Maddie, who was then 3 years old. The complaint is from Jenny Murat, the mother of Robert Murat, who came to be accused in the case
Ler mais em: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=pt-BR&sp=nmt4&u=http://www.cmjornal.pt/mundo/detalhe/viuva-de-pedofilo-procurada-pela-policia-inglesa%3Fref%3DHP_Grupo1&usg=ALkJrhjPsQHyLEMAeT7nljCTlZNahCKaug
Wouldn't it be wonderful that after everthing that has occurred, that Jenny Murat ends up the hero of the day?
Thank you for that, Heri. Do you know if sources are aware of the identity of the Bulgarian woman & also if her deceased husband was ever questioned by the PJ? (given the PJ stated in the archiving report they had traced & interviewed all known local paedophiles)..
I trust your tongue was totally stuck in your cheek when you typed that.
Wouldn't it be wonderful that after everthing that has occurred, that Jenny Murat ends up the hero of the day?Yes John
Yes John
If Jenny Murat's information shows an abductor does exist it would've dad but at least bring closure
It's a pity she never mentioned it in her statement on May 15th.
I don't that's how it works in PT, G-Unit.
As far as I can tell, you answer questions. End of.
She doesn't appear to have been asked anything other than questions relating to Rob.
.
.
I am investigating who is the woman Grange is trying to locate. Any ideas?
.
.
I am investigating who is the woman Grange is trying to locate. Any ideas?
It doesn't mention anyone in purple.The handwritten note seems longer than that.
It appears to be a summary in Portuguese of a UK police interview: after reading an article in the Daily Express with accompanying photos, a woman was convinced Jane and Russell were the people she'd seen at an airport in Bulgaria on 25 May.
The handwritten note seems longer than that.
Was that your translation Carana?
Not a translation, just a summary.I have asked a translator to give me a true full translation but I can't guarantee to get a response. Are you capable?
Ah. A bit I missed, trying to read the note upside down was that she apparently saw "Maddie" with them. You can work out the English around that...Probably not. I'll wait till I get a translation from Laura Rachana who is a "professional translator" I've been told.
Probably not. I'll wait till I get a translation from Laura Rachana who is a "professional translator" I've been told.
I meant the English report on which the note in Portuguese was placed.The page comes from http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_MOBILE.htm
The page comes from http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE_TANNER_MOBILE.htm
The bit s that are visible:
Leicestershire Constabulary
Subject : Mrs Jennifer CONROY (N1309
Date : 23rd August 2007
_________________________
Sir,
Thi........................................(Jenn?)ifer CONROY (016236xxxxx)
wis........................................
She......................................(r?)elation to a sighting of
Ma(d?)...................................She is adamant that she saw
Ma(d?)...................................a male and two females and
beli.......................................
She......................................per concerning the Madeleine
enq......................................d as Russell O'BRIEN and Jane
TA.......................................(w?)ith Madeleine at Varna Airport,
with.....................................(d?)er only reservations are that if
Rus.....................................(m?)ale at the Airport and,
obvi....................................it could not have been them
with.....................................
Mrs......................................(ex?)pert at portraits, her
emp.....................................(t?)o detail most of her working life.
She......................................Airport and supported this by
conf.....................................o had a mannerism of biting her
lip, (a?)...................................
I hav(e?)................................es to a message taken from Mrs.
CON(ROY?)...........................(r?)efers to the Airport sighting but
puts.....................................(s?)poken to at length by DC 317
LAN......................................(st?)ating, This is a well meaning
call.......................................(val?)idity in the sighting".
I don't think we have enough information to fill in the blanks.
Perhaps Bulgarian man who started work at 8pm cleaning the pool area was in cahoots with purple Bulgarian woman on the street corner.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P3/03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_723.jpg
He worked hard, didn't he? Nine till six as a car painter in Lagos, then eight till twelve washing up at the Ocean Club.
Yes, like many Eastern Europeans he doesn't appear to shy away from a hard day's work. I wonder if he drove to OC?
Do you fancy him as the stoppo driver/wheelman who morphed into Mr Wetpants in "The Sadies Theory" Thread?
No, because he was working at the time. It did, however, occur to me that any OC employee with a vehicle could have easily hidden a bound-and-gagged child in the boot before later driving away.
It does not have to be an OC employee.
It does not have to be an OC employee.
I agree and for the simple reason that an OC employee would need to be crazy to try this in their own backyard.
MR: There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense.
Normal people would think so; then again normal people don't burglarise other people's residences.
Snip
When they were previously interviewed the men admitted petty theft from apartments at the complex but denied being involved in Madeleine’s disappearance.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/1150260/revealed-brit-cops-know-who-snatched-maddie-and-think-they-have-questioned-him-already/
The line of inquiry is believed to be the ‘one final lead’ that Metropolitan
Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe referred to this week during a
radio interview.
He said that it was the only one Brit cops were continuing to pursue and that
it could solve the case.
He said: “There is a line of inquiry that remains to be concluded and
it’s expected that in the coming months that will happen.”
Normal people would think so; then again normal people don't burglarise other people's residences.
Snip
When they were previously interviewed the men admitted petty theft from apartments at the complex but denied being involved in Madeleine’s disappearance.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/1150260/revealed-brit-cops-know-who-snatched-maddie-and-think-they-have-questioned-him-already/
Normal people would think so; then again normal people don't burglarise other people's residences.Once again from the article.
Snip
When they were previously interviewed the men admitted petty theft from apartments at the complex but denied being involved in Madeleine’s disappearance.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/1150260/revealed-brit-cops-know-who-snatched-maddie-and-think-they-have-questioned-him-already/
When they were previously interviewed the men admitted petty theft from
apartments at the complex but denied being involved in Madeleine’s
disappearance.
The youth said he had got involved in crime because he was desperate to have a
fast sports car.
R .
Rachael Mariamma Jean Mampilly Oldfield (1/4), Friend, travelling companion of the McCann family, p. 73
Rachael Mariamma Jean Mampilly Oldfield (2/4), Friend, travelling companion of the McCann family, p. 943
Rachael Mariamma Jean Mampilly Oldfield (3/4), Friend, travelling companion of the McCann family, p. 1292
Rachael Mariamma Jean Mampilly Oldfield (4/4), Rogatory interview 09.04.2008
Rajinder Singh Balu 2008.05.28, on holiday in Praia da Luz, early search, CR 8 p. 3
Rex Morgan, re: collector at his door, p. 4013
Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira (1/2) (snippet), Waiter, Tapas restaurant, Ocean Club, served meal on may, 3rd, p. 125
Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira (2/3), Waiter, Tapas restaurant, Ocean Club, served meal on may, 3rd, p. 266
Ricardo Alexandre da Luz Oliveira (3/3), Waiter, Tapas restaurant, Ocean Club, served meal on may, 3rd, p. 2941
Richard McCluskey (1/2), holidaymaker, sighting 2007.05.09 - Alvores, A. 5 Vol. 1 p. 128
Richard McCluskey (2/2), holidaymaker - Alvores, A. 5 Vol. 1 p. 137
Ricardo Manuel Goncalves de Paiva, Inspector PJ, p. 3898
Rita Cristina Rose dos Santos Silva, receptionist, Main reception, Ocean Club, off duty may 3rd, p. 579
Robert Murat (1/3), Resident of Praia da Luz, arguido, p. 1169
Robert Murat (2/3), Resident of Praia da Luz, arguido, p. 1947
Robert Murat (3/3), Resident of Praia da Luz, arguido, p. 1959
Rui Sergio Lopes Silva, GNR Officer, Lagos, p. 1342
Russel James O'Brien (1/5), Friend, travelling companion of the McCann family, p. 80
Russel James O'Brien (2/5), Friend, travelling companion of the McCann family, p. 934
Russel James O'Brien (3/5), Friend, travelling companion of the McCann family, p. 1320
Russel James O'Brien (4/5), Friend, travelling companion of the McCann family, p. 1945
Russell James O'Brien (5/5), Friend, travelling companion of the McCann family, Rogatory interview 10.04.2008
From that article.
That obviously failed to materialise,now its a purple haze,still its summit to talk about.
From that article.
That obviously failed to materialise,now its a purple haze,still its summit to talk about.
I do wish forum etiquette would be respected and "In my opinion" used when that is what you are expressing and nothing else.
The truth of the matter is that like the rest of us ... you have absolutely no idea what or who the police are currently investigating. Some think the tabloid "woman in purple" is possible ... but who knows?
I'm quite relaxed about it and happy that they are obviously still justifying working an active line of inquiry on Madeleine's behalf. I'm hoping it is a productive one ... but we shall all just have to wait and see.
The team has looked at in excess of 600 individuals who were identified as being potentially significant to the disappearance. In 2013 the team identified four individuals they declared to be suspects in the case. This led to interviews at a police station in Faro facilitated by the local Policia Judiciária and the search of a large area of wasteland which is close to Madeleine's apartment in Praia Da Luz. The enquiries did not find any evidence to further implicate the individuals in the disappearance and so they are no longer subject of further investigation.
Time to remember Caveats or Cites, if you please.
As an investigation team we are only too aware of the significance of dates and anniversaries. Whatever the inquiry, we want to get answers for everyone involved.
The disappearance of Madeleine McCann is no different in that respect but of course the circumstances and the huge public interest, make this a unique case for us as police officers to deal with. In a missing child inquiry every day is agony and an anniversary brings this into sharp focus. Our thoughts are with Madeleine's family at this time - as it is with any family in a missing person’s inquiry - and that drives our commitment to do everything we can for her.
On 3rd May 2017, it will be 10 years since Madeleine vanished from her apartment in Praia Da Luz, a small town on the Algarve. In the immediate hours following her disappearance, an extensive search commenced involving the local police, community and tourists. This led to an investigation that has involved police services across Europe and beyond, experts in many fields, the world’s media and the public, which continues to this day. The image of Madeleine remains instantly recognisable in many countries across the world.
The Met’s dedicated team of four detectives, continues to work closely on the outstanding enquiries along with colleagues of the Portuguese Policia Judiciária. Our relationship with the Policia Judiciária is good. We continue to work together and this is helping us to move forward the investigation.
We don't have evidence telling us if Madeleine is alive or dead. It is a missing person’s inquiry but as a team we are realistic about what we might be dealing with - especially as months turn to years.
Now is a time we can reflect on an investigation which captured an unprecedented amount of media coverage and interest. The enormity of scale and the complexity of such a case brings along its own challenges, not least learning to work with colleagues who operate under a very different legal system. The inquiry has been, and continues to be helped and supported by many organisations and individuals. We acknowledge the difference these contributions have made to the investigation and would like it known that we appreciate all the support we have and continue to receive.
Since the Met was instructed by the Home Office to review the case in 2011, we have reviewed all the material gathered from multiple sources since 2007. This amounted to over 40,000 documents out of which thousands of enquiries were generated. We continue to receive information on a daily basis, all of which is assessed and actioned for enquiries to be conducted.
We have appealed on four BBC Crimewatch programmes since April 2012. This included an age progression image which resulted in hundreds of calls about alleged sightings of Madeleine; an appeal for the identity of possibly relevant individuals through description or Efit; and information sought relating to suspicious behaviour or offences of burglary. These programmes collectively produced a fantastic response from the public. The thousands of calls and information enabled detectives to progress a number of enquiries. This was in addition to over 3,000 holiday photographs from the public in response to an earlier appeal.
The team has looked at in excess of 600 individuals who were identified as being potentially significant to the disappearance. In 2013 the team identified four individuals they declared to be suspects in the case. This led to interviews at a police station in Faro facilitated by the local Policia Judiciária and the search of a large area of wasteland which is close to Madeleine's apartment in Praia Da Luz. The enquiries did not find any evidence to further implicate the individuals in the disappearance and so they are no longer subject of further investigation.
We will not comment on other parts of our investigation - it does not help the teams investigating to give a commentary on those aspects. I am pleased to say that our relationship with the Portuguese investigators is better than ever and this is paying dividends in the progress all of us are making.
We are often asked about funding and you can see that we are now a much smaller team. We know we have the funding to look at the focused enquiry we are pursuing.
Of course we always want information and we can't rule out making new appeals if that is required. However, right now, new appeals or prompts to the public are not in the interest of what we are trying to achieve.
As detectives, we will always be extremely disappointed when we are unable to provide an explanation of what happened. However the work carried out by Portuguese and Met officers in reviewing material and reopening the investigation has been successful in taking a number of lines of interest to their conclusion. That work has provided important answers.
Right now we are committed to taking the current inquiry as far as we possibly can and we are confident that will happen. Ultimately this, and the previous work, gives all of us the very best chance of getting the answers – although we must, of course, remember that no investigation can guarantee to provide a definitive conclusion.
However the Met, jointly with colleagues from the Policia Judiciária continue the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann with focus and determination.
We will not comment on other parts of our investigation - it does not help the teams investigating to give a commentary on those aspects. I am pleased to say that our relationship with the Portuguese investigators is better than ever and this is paying dividends in the progress all of us are making.
Its been posted often enough but here it is in its entirety.
http://news.met.police.uk/blog_posts/ac-mark-rowley-reflects-on-the-tenth-anniversary-of-the-disappearance-of-madeleine-mccann-56775#related
After 10 years you do not yet understand that Gonçalo Amaral did not lead the investigation, he did not decide what leads or clues to follow.
Also please cite where Amaral said that he was looking for a body from the first day. As for these allegations that children had been vanishing every 18 months in the Algarve, I will just say that someone's imagination is running wild.
Who was responsible for the request to make the McCanns arguidos on 7/9/2007, given that Tavares de Almeida's interim report containing the "theseis" and addressed to the co-ordinator of the investigation was dated 10/9/07 and signed by the MP 11/9/07?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TAVARES_ALMEIDA.htm
It depends what you mean by "leading", perhaps. Amaral was the most senior officer in the Portimão PJ, wasn't he?
Those in charge were Encarnacao and Neves. Amaral coordinated the investigation, but they directed it.
Oh! dear is the much vaunted (by some) Scotland Yard leaking like a sieve, or remember what Rowley had to say as regards newspaper reports.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4843610/madeleine-mccann-woman-in-purple-bulgaria/
I find it difficult to know exactly what his role was and where his responsibilities started and ended.
Yes, fair enough, they were indeed higher up the PJ food chain and were at least following the investigation.
Amaral was just a glorified office boy, then, was he?
I find it difficult to know exactly what his role was and where his responsibilities started and ended.
Me too, Jassi.
This document has come up on a video about the lady in purple and it has a handwritten note across it. Has that note been translated? (http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ap/A6_5/apenso5_vol_6_p1242.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1jA9rOUBgM
“English Police 07/08/23 [Aug 23 2007]Thanks for that. It would have been easy at the time to find out what Russell and Jane were doing on the 25th of May. If they were in England they had a good alibi.
Jennifer Conroy has already informed authorities of having seen Madeleine at Varna Airport, Bulgaria, on 25/05/2007. After reading the Daily Express issue of 22/08/2007, containing the photos of Russel O'Brien and Jane Tanner, Jennifer Conroy says that these were the people she saw Madeleine with on 25/05/2007”
If Jenny Murat had actually seen a woman in purple she would have come up with this 10 years ago when her son was an arguido. Jane Tanner was often pictured wearing purple. Purple is also indistinguishable in the dark. It's taken 10 years for them to come up with this! Instead of investigating the last people to see the victim and re interviewing them. That is the best way forward in the case imo.
If Jenny Murat had actually seen a woman in purple she would have come up with this 10 years ago when her son was an arguido. Jane Tanner was often pictured wearing purple. Purple is also indistinguishable in the dark. It's taken 10 years for them to come up with this! Instead of investigating the last people to see the victim and re interviewing them. That is the best way forward in the case imo.
Each level has some autonomy, but they are answerable to and directed by higher levels. Is DCI Wall 'in charge' of Operation Grange or is she directed by and answerable to A C Rowley (or others), for example?
If Jenny Murat had actually seen a woman in purple she would have come up with this 10 years ago when her son was an arguido. Jane Tanner was often pictured wearing purple. Purple is also indistinguishable in the dark. It's taken 10 years for them to come up with this! Instead of investigating the last people to see the victim and re interviewing them. That is the best way forward in the case imo.
Slightly OT but - if Amaral was not "in charge" why do you think he felt the McCanns were responsible for him losing his job, ruining his political prospects, destroying his reputation, etc etc? After all, GA had reportedly never met them before his removal from the case & it was other officers who were doing the groundwork & Encarnacao/Neves with whom the McCanns had update meetings? Surely, anyone BUT Amaral should have been the target of the McCanns' frustration & anger prior to his book being published?
Wrong conclusion then imo.Did you make it clear who's conclusion you did not agree with? Use the "Quote" button.
Did he specifically blame them? I haven't seen a cite for that, sorry.
I'll phrase it another way. Of all the people in charge during the first investigation, why do you think the McCanns & the people apparently protecting them only targeted Amaral?One reason was he wrote the book about it.
One reason was he wrote the book about it.
I'll phrase it another way. Of all the people in charge during the first investigation, why do you think the McCanns & the people apparently protecting them only targeted Amaral?
My purse would go on : "He was the easiest target."
What rational analysis did you use to come to that decision?
Do you really want me to show my prejudices wrt the brain power of the average MSM reader?.
Well OK the average MSM reader will have it hook line sinker and half way down the bleedin' rod if it is presented right.
Far easier to hit a corpulent boozy diamond earringed SM than to really stick it to the judicial system of an EU member state. The yahoos will lap it up with a spoon.
Just read some back numbers of threads on here.
I rest my case.
The people allegedly doing the targeting were not the average MSM reader. Why not pick on Almeida?
Dunno.
I could never understand the obsession with Sr Amaral anyway. He was given the bums rush in Sept 2007.
LOL So you'd wager your purse on a random choice without much forethought?
The people allegedly doing the targeting were not the average MSM reader. Why not pick on Almeida?
What rational analysis did you use to come to that decision?
..
.
I am investigating who is the woman Grange is trying to locate. Any ideas?
.
.
Think I have found who is the woman Grange is trying to locate (and her by then husband). If confirmed, there will be news before next Monday.
.
.
Think I have found who is the woman Grange is trying to locate (and her by then husband). If confirmed, there will be news before next Monday.
All we need now is confirmation that OG are actually looking for her.When I phoned SY, a good few months ago now, I was told that they only needed informatiion about where Madeleine was. Seemed that they knew who the perp was.
.
.
Think I have found who is the woman Grange is trying to locate (and her by then husband). If confirmed, there will be news before next Monday.
The former husband is dead.
Any 'evidence' would be second hand.
....and isn't this the final.............final line of inquiry ?
If he is dead you can locate him anyway 8(0(*
When I phoned SY, a good few months ago now, I was told that they only needed informatiion about where Madeleine was.
Snip
Please provide a cite? To be honest, in my opinion that is pure fantasy. The police do not tend to give progress reports to members of the public who ring up.
When I phoned SY, a good few months ago now, I was told that they only needed informatiion about where Madeleine was. Seemed that they knew who the perp was.
That seems a good indicator that they are actively looking for her.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if they found her?
Thanks Heri for your efforts. And well done.
I wonder if they say that to all their informants.
Probably not everyone, just their 'regulars' 8(0(*
All we need now is confirmation that OG are actually looking for her.
I wonder if they say that to all their informants.Trouble with that was I hadn't given my name at that stage ...... ^*&&
Trouble with that was I hadn't given my name at that stage ...... ^*&&
Trouble with that was I hadn't given my name at that stage ...... ^*&&
So you are suggesting SY give out case updates to random callers?I wasn't after a case update. That is their business, not mine.
I wasn't after a case update. That is their business, not mine.
Had you been a journalist ringing up you would have had a front page headline.
'Met have all the information they need except Maddie's present whereabouts!'.
Are the Met really so naive? Strewth!
MR: Ourselves and the Portuguese are doing a critical piece of work and we don’t want to spoil it by putting titbits out on it publically.
MR: There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense.
Had you been a journalist ringing up you would have had a front page headline.
'Met have all the information they need except Maddie's present whereabouts!'.
Are the Met really so naive? Strewth!
I certainly got the feeling that they knew who they were up against. Doesn't mean that they have enough evidence to prosecute tho.
I think the claim you made about what they actually said is far more important than your impressions and feelings. Now tell me. Did a Metropolitan Police Officer actually tell you, an unknown telephone caller, "they only needed information about where Madeleine was"?I think he was a Civilian Officer attached to Operation Grange and as I remember it, he sad (not the exact words, cos i cant remember them) that OG didn't need any more info to help find the person/s who had taken Madeleine, but they did need help to find Madeleine.
I think he was a Civilian Officer attached to Operation Grange and as I remember it, he sad (not the exact words, cos i cant remember them) that OG didn't need any more info to help find the person/s who had taken Madeleine, but they did need help to find Madeleine.
At that stage I was unable to help them. They already knew where I believed Madeleine to be about 3 years previiously.
I could have some educated guesses of places that no-one on here seems to have thought of, but I probably would be wrong. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack TBH
It seems you spoke to someone whose job is to deal with the public while the police officers get on with their jobs. If he said what you say he said I very much doubt that he was either qualified or instructed to say it.
That's in your opinion is it? When you didn't speak to him? Ah I see.
Do you know whether it was a civilian or police officer you spoke to ?Already answered stephen ... on this page
That's in your opinion is it? When you didn't speak to him? Ah I see.
I have to spend the rest of my life worrying about that little girl because her parents were selfish and crap. Brilliant.
Luisa is from Madeira, not Bulgaria.
There is a clue in that her husband started work at 8pm & his first duty was to clean up around the pool area. Had they had a meal in Luz after both finished their respective jobs at 1800hrs & she had left him at the Tapas Bar then gone up to the street corner to wait for a lift/meet someone?
They probably agree with you.
.
.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/881339/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-waitress-woman-in-purple-scotland-yard-bulgaria (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/881339/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-waitress-woman-in-purple-scotland-yard-bulgaria)
Scotland Yard said they could not give a running commentary on investigations carried out by officers working on Operation Grange.
Mark Rowley:We will not comment on other parts of our investigation - it does not help the teams investigating to give a commentary on those aspects.
from what I can see all the information in this article has come from Heri with zero input from SY. perhaps Heri could confirm this. Is it so difficult to locate a person when all the details of this person are known.
Only if they don't want to be found perhaps?Of course. So is the person SY is looking for not wanting to be found.......the question then is ...why. That makes it much more interesting.
Of course. So is the person SY is looking for not wanting to be found.......the question then is ...why. That makes it much more interesting.
A cite from an official source informing the board and the wider reading public just what SY are investigating wouldn't go amiss,imo.
Of course. So is the person SY is looking for not wanting to be found.......the question then is ...why. That makes it much more interesting.
Mark Rowley:We will not comment on other parts of our investigation - it does not help the teams investigating to give a commentary on those aspects.
I tnink we have to trust Mark.....
Only if they don't want to be found perhaps?
It seems some people put more faith in Supporter Criminal Experts than Sceptic Criminal Experts.
We can't expect SY to make public statements about what they are doing, but it would be nice if they were prepared to dispel the B/S information put out by MSM -m e.g. we are not looking for a Purple People Eater in Bulgaria. 8)--))
It seems some people put more faith in Supporter Criminal Experts than Sceptic Criminal Experts.
So when you say is,you really mean if.
There are persons or person that SY is looking for...so it is....is. whether it is this woman in purple is another question
Or, of course , the MSM have been fed with false info.
There are persons or person that SY is looking for...so it is....is. whether it is this woman in purple is another question
The information has come from Heri on this forum
So for information posted on here, is it always correct ?
So for information posted on here, is it always correct ?
That makes sense. A bit of time together early evening. Outside block 5 was a good place to be picked up by a taxi from the rank by the church, too. Up R 1 da Maio, turn left, pick her up and out to Lagos. I still think Jane Tanner was the 8.30 sighting by Jes Wilkins.
As her husband was working that night and she was at work the following morning I can't see them as suspects. If SY are looking for her it's more likely to be as a witness to anything she may have seen or heard nearby.
On the other hand is any of this factual? It seems to me to be speculation presented as fact but if there is any truth in it should the Express be printing the couple's names?
"THE “woman in purple” being sought by Scotland Yard detectives in Bulgaria in connection with the Madeleine McCann case worked with her husband at the Ocean Club resort on the Algarve in Portugal."
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/881339/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-waitress-woman-in-purple-scotland-yard-bulgaria
There was a Bulgarian employee who worked for "the OC restaurant". Which one isn't clear. His wife appears to have been working at the Millennium at the time (ETA: during that period). Although the wording is a bit vague, I interpret it as being that he worked at the Tapas.
Unless he managed to get off pot-cleaning duty in a reasonably busy kitchen without anyone noticing that evening, when he apparently went off duty at 12:00, I can't see a connection to the Smellyman MO.
I'm wondering that, as well, G-Unit.
I haven't found any other Bulgarian (that I can recall) in the files that have been on the Internet for the past 9 years.
Where did this sudden morphing succession of tabloid "scoops" come from that he was a dead paedophile?
I haven't a clue, either, where the idea came from that she might have been the woman in purple. Wouldn't Jenny have recognised her, even by sight, if she worked in the village?
It all seemed to begin with Jenny Murat telling the media something she never told the police at the time. Then SY were looking for someone in Europe. Then they were looking in Bulgaria. Now Heri has thrown this couple to the dogs. I find it quite distasteful to be honest because it all seems to be based on rumours. Naming this couple, whether dead or alive, in Portugal or elsewhere is unjustifiable imo.
We can't expect SY to make public statements about what they are doing, but it would be nice if they were prepared to dispel the B/S information put out by MSM - e.g. we are not looking for a Purple People Eater in Bulgaria. 8)--))
Luisa is still living in Almádena and can be seen most mornings as she waits for a bus or a lift to get to her place of work. My source is someone who has lived and worked in Almádena for over 20 years and knows Luisa by name and face.
The PJ Files show clearly that Luisa is Portuguese. The 'Todorov' came from her Bulgarian husband. Those snippets were also confirmed by my source.
If you look at the PJ Files, she and her husband both had jobs in the Millennium that did not bring them into customer contact. I should have asked if Luisa speaks English as well as Portuguese, but I didn't.
Nothing in the PJ Files fits with her being around apartment 5A on 3 May 2007 at 8 pm.
In the unlikely event OG is trying to track her down, it would have taken 5 minutes with Almádena sources, not a hunt across Bulgaria.
I didn't bother with this tale when it emerged, for the simple reason that OG traipsing across Bulgaria seemed nonsensical to me. Without the Bulgarian link, there is nothing to connect Luisa or her husband to a 'woman in purple'.
Thank you for that info S.I.L.
Luisa is from Madeira, not Bulgaria.
There is a clue in that her husband started work at 8pm & his first duty was to clean up around the pool area. Had they had a meal in Luz after both finished their respective jobs at 1800hrs & she had left him at the Tapas Bar then gone up to the street corner to wait for a lift/meet someone?
Luisa is still living in Almádena and can be seen most mornings as she waits for a bus or a lift to get to her place of work. My source is someone who has lived and worked in Almádena for over 20 years and knows Luisa by name and face.
The PJ Files show clearly that Luisa is Portuguese. The 'Todorov' came from her Bulgarian husband. Those snippets were also confirmed by my source.
If you look at the PJ Files, she and her husband both had jobs in the Millennium that did not bring them into customer contact. I should have asked if Luisa speaks English as well as Portuguese, but I didn't.
Nothing in the PJ Files fits with her being around apartment 5A on 3 May 2007 at 8 pm.
In the unlikely event OG is trying to track her down, it would have taken 5 minutes with Almádena sources, not a hunt across Bulgaria.
I didn't bother with this tale when it emerged, for the simple reason that OG traipsing across Bulgaria seemed nonsensical to me. Without the Bulgarian link, there is nothing to connect Luisa or her husband to a 'woman in purple'.
It seems its Heri who has come upwith the link sio it will be interesting to see what he has to say. Im not at all convinced SY are looking for her.
Neither am I, and in the unlikely event that they are they're not great at finding people either. Well done SIL.
Heri is not obliged to answer questions. As already stated by John in the case of another Member.
Heri will do so or not, as he pleases.
We already know that.
Likewise, he has placed his theories on here. If he isn't prepared to answer questions, without challenge, then why post them ?
By the way, this will not stop people debating his theories.
.
.
It is very simple. Stefan was working at Tapas Bar, very near to the 5A, and maybe his work allowed him to move outside at times. And his wife was free after 16:30, where was Luisa at the time of the abduction? PJ did not ask.
The two are really interisting persons for the investigation, considering a "Burglarian link" or not.
.According to Luisa's statement, she worked in the Millennium, and her husband worked in the same restaurant that she did. If that is correct, it puts both of them around 650m from apartment 5A. I have not checked the waiter routines in the Tapas, but that should clearly show if I am wrong on this point.
.
It is very simple. Stefan was working at Tapas Bar, very near to the 5A, and maybe his work allowed him to move outside at times. And his wife was free after 16:30, where was Luisa at the time of the abduction? PJ did not ask.
The two are really interesting persons for the investigation, considering a "Burglarian link" or not.
It seems some people put more faith in Supporter Criminal Experts than Sceptic Criminal Experts.
Wasn't crecheman later in the evening, when it was dark when it would be impossible to distinguish purple from any other colour ?
.
.
It is very simple. Stefan was working at Tapas Bar, very near to the 5A, and maybe his work allowed him to move outside at times. And his wife was free after 16:30, where was Luisa at the time of the abduction? PJ did not ask.
The two are really interesting persons for the investigation, considering a "Burglarian link" or not.
I think the people who should decide whether people are of interest to the investigation are members of the two police forces working on it. Did you share your find with either of them or just with a UK newspaper?
.
.
It is very simple. Stefan was working at Tapas Bar, very near to the 5A, and maybe his work allowed him to move outside at times. And his wife was free after 16:30, where was Luisa at the time of the abduction? PJ did not ask.
The two are really interesting persons for the investigation, considering a "Burglarian link" or not.
According to Luisa's statement, she worked in the Millennium, and her husband worked in the same restaurant that she did. If that is correct, it puts both of them around 650m from apartment 5A. I have not checked the waiter routines in the Tapas, but that should clearly show if I am wrong on this point.
Please note, I am not interested in a points-scoring contest. That is NOT what this is about.
Heri asked me some questions in the run up to this story. The simple fact is that I could not answer them, due to lack of knowledge. Then when the story emerged, I was able to do a bit of digging, to get to where we are now.
I don't have any problem with this process. I would consider that with input from several people, we emerge ahead of the media. IE, with a clearer picture.
I have the capability of 'door-stepping' the lady in question. I am confident no-one on the forum is suggesting that. And I definitely to not intend to get into this.
My source is a close personal friend of the family, so you are getting no more details. Take it or leave it as you please.
So it looks Heri asked sil if this woman was still in Luz
sil said no....but later found out she was
That seems to be about it
So it looks Heri asked sil if this woman was still in LuzThe post quoted does not have a single accurate fact in it. *&^^&
sil said no....but later found out she was
That seems to be about it
No, Davel. I did not ask SIL to locate her. I asked SIL about an address in Almadena, and Almadena psycho-social environment in general. And the answer was very useful.
The post quoted does not have a single accurate fact in it. *&^^&
Is her husband still alive, SIL?I did not ask, so I do not know. If it has relevance, I will be happy to enquire.
If he worked at the same restaurant as she did, then he worked at the Millenium, not the Tapas. And she worked until 18:00, not 16:30, if we're looking at the same documents.
"She works from 10.00 to 18.00 except for Sundays and Mondays, her functions include washing up, tidying up and other kitchen duties. (...) She heard about the events on the night in question, when her husband - who works in the same restaurant as the witness"
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LOUISA_TODOROV.htm
I suppose she could have been around the area that evening, but if she'd been of interest to either police force, she doesn't appear to have been difficult to find.
Hi Carana,How does the fact that Luisa is in Portugal and not Bulgaria affect your thinking
I have reasons to think Stefan was at Tapas on May 3, 2007 from 20:00 to 24:00.
How does the fact that Luisa is in Portugal and not Bulgaria affect your thinking
IMO the couple should be quizzed again.Is Luisa in Portugal or Bulgaria
IMO the couple should be quizzed again.
Mark Rowley:We will not comment on other parts of our investigation - it does not help the teams investigating to give a commentary on those aspects
Mark Rowley:There are odd headlines and odd stories in newspapers on a regular basis and most of those are nonsense.
.
.
It is very simple. Stefan was working at Tapas Bar, very near to the 5A, and maybe his work allowed him to move outside at times. And his wife was free after 16:30, where was Luisa at the time of the abduction? PJ did not ask.
The two are really interesting persons for the investigation, considering a "Burglarian link" or not.
IMO the couple should be quizzed again.
When Rowley had this to say its clear in what sort of stories he had in mind.
Can you clarify what you mean?
What Eleanor means is that attacks on other members will not be tolerated. We rely on the goodwill of posters on this forum who can make valuable contribution to the facts. We have lost informed members in the past due to the way they were treated, this will not be allowed to happen again.
Have the Express been informed that have been presented with incorrect information, and shouldcwithdraw the article abd/or amend it.Perhaps you could telephone and explain
I see the Daily Star, stalemate of the Express is now running the same incorrect story.
Presumably, they don't know their R'ses from their elbows either.
It is quite possible that this woman was Luisa but I do not believe she is the woman the Met are reportedly seeking. Somehow the story has morphed from an Eastern European woman with a now-deceased German paedophile husband who lived near 5A into a Portuguese woman who worked at OC & was very much not missing after Madeleine disappeared.
Stefan had/had been in Portugal since 2002 & had his visa renewed at Portimao up until 2014. Did Immigration not have any details of a criminal history which the PJ could have picked up at the time?
Agree, the story keeps morphing, with the usual tabloids copying and embellishing on their rivals as they go along.[/color]
I don't know if PT ran background checks on visa applications / renewals.
OG banged off rog letters to 30 other countries. I think asking for any criminal records or open investigations of foreign employees, guests, residents, whatnot, known to have been there would be standard procedure. If he'd had prior convictions, Op Grange would presumably have found out well before now.
If he'd been extradited to face charges back in his native country, I would expect it to have hit the headlines.
Friday 04 October 2013:
Assistant Commissioners Mark Rowley and Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood are also sending formal International Letters Of Request to 30 other countries asking for assistance with their inquiry, reflecting the range of nationalities likely to have been in the town on May 3, 2007.
https://news.sky.com/story/madeleine-mccann-police-probe-phone-records-10432510
[/color]
It would be interesting to know whether the 30 countries bit is true or just Sky having a punt.
[/color]
It would be interesting to know whether the 30 countries bit is true or just Sky having a punt.
Indeed,what would SY being doing issuing ILOr's in other countries whilst supposedly investigating a crime that happened elsewhere where they have more rights than a citizen of that country (Portugal)
Indeed,what would SY being doing issuing ILOr's in other countries whilst supposedly investigating a crime that happened elsewhere where they have more rights than a citizen of that country (Portugal)
To check on criminal records or whether there are any open investigations re known people?
By JAMES MURRAY
PUBLISHED: 00:01, Sun, May 3, 2015
Despite the costly Scotland Yard and Portuguese police investigation, the Sunday Express found that key witnesses have still not been spoken to.
Jenny Murat, 78, the mother of wrongly accused Robert Murat, has potentially breakthrough evidence but no one has spoken to her. At 8pm on May 3, 2007, she went to a supermarket and then drove past Apartment 5a and saw a woman hanging around. Her notes from the time say: “There was a woman standing on the corner under a lamp post.
“I don’t remember much of her other than she was of slight build and was wearing a plum coloured jacket. She moved around the lamp post as if trying not to be noticed.”
As she turned into the driveway of her home, Casa Liliana, she was nearly hit by a car going the wrong way. “When I stopped to open the gates I could not see the car but the woman was in the road looking in my direction.”
After her son was wrongly made an arguido (Portuguese for suspect), she contacted Hugo Swire, a Tory MP in Devon, and Leicestershire police about her sighting but, astonishingly, she has not been interviewed to this day.
Speaking at home this week, she told the Sunday Express: “I am happy to speak to Scotland Yard. This woman was just outside Apartment 5a and it didn’t look right. It could be relevant.”
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/574547/Maddie-libel-detective-ruined-Retirement-retreat-seized-cover-McCann-payout
Mrs Murat didn't just wheel out the story of the woman standing outside block 5 in time for the tenth anniversary editions recounting Madeleine's disappearance. She had recognised the implicit implications much earlier than that.
There was a school of thought, on this forum as well as elsewhere that Mrs Murat had seen Jane Tanner. Just as it was assumed (even by him I think) that the woman Jes Wilkins saw outside the apartments was Jane Tanner.
Jane outside the apartment block in my opinion would not be the least bit extraordinary, she was in residence there. Jane at the other side of the road as described by Mrs Murat would in my opinion be an entirely different kettle of fish
If nothing else the 'woman in purple' saga has in my opinion cast the net just a little bit wider ... and the fact that the police are actively pursuing a lead for which they have taken the time and made the effort to justify extra funding ... in my opinion shows their informed dedication to bringing Madeleine's case to a conclusion.
Which will be great if it is the one we all hope for ... but a conclusion nonetheless.
Interpol would be the correct route imo.
If the Met could have simply passed a message via Europol to the PJ, they wouldn't have had to go through all the ILOR process.
One observation - why was Jenny M making notes about her own observations, which she didn't pass on to the PJ, before her son was made an arguido? If they're as accurate as her recollection of what she was doing between 9 & 11pm that night..........
JMO.
I always found that whole episode quite bizarre. Misty. But maybe she did pass her own information on to the PJ, I don't think there is any record of anything she forwarded to them. None that we are privy to anyway.
Maybe Hugo Swire or Leicestershire police can verify being contacted at the time.
Wasn't Mrs Murat responsible for another report having noticed something while walking her dogs? Maybe not named but described as "elderly ex pat"?
Here we go... Another morph.
Mystery 'woman in purple' sought by Madeleine McCann police identified as waitress
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/criminologist-identifies-mysterious-woman-purple-11549497
The Met are seeking the couple. What are they doing- staking out cemeteries?
The Met are seeking the couple. What are they doing- staking out cemeteries?
The Met are seeking the couple. What are they doing- staking out cemeteries?
It seems the dead husband may have been resurrected.
CdM about an hour or so ago.
Spanish criminologist Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez says he found and identified the "woman dressed in purple" that English police say is a key witness in the case of Madeleine McCann's disappearance in Praia da Luz, Lagos, in 2007. Detectives in Scotland Yard look for the 'mystery woman', who will have been seen by two witnesses next to the apartment at the Ocean Club resort, where the McCann family was. The latest information reported that Operation Grange investigators had gone to Bulgaria in search of the woman. Herbierto Gonzalez, a well-known criminologist, now states that he identified the woman. She says she is Luisa Todorov, a Bulgarian national employee who, at the time of Maddie's disappearance, worked at the Ocean Club. According to the criminologist, the 58-year-old woman and her husband Stefan, 5, were questioned by Portuguese authorities five days after Maddie's disappearance and the two have denied seeing or witnessing anything suspicious. However, the two have returned to Bulgaria and were never questioned again. Gonzalez, who has been following the case for 10 years, says Luisa Todorov is the woman who was seen next to the McCanns apartment at 8:00 pm on May 3, 2007. "I have seen, analyzed, and It seems to me that it is very likely that the purple woman the English police are looking for is Mrs. Todorov. They are the only ones with links to Bulgaria and this explains why Scotland Yard was there. I believe they have returned to their country of origin, "says the criminologist. The British police have already followed more than 560 different lines of investigation and even made excavations in Praia da Luz. About 13 million euros have already been spent on Operation Grange and the British government has ceded this year another 175,000 research.
Ler mais em: http://www.cmjornal.pt/mundo/detalhe/mulher-misterio-testemunha-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-encontrada?ref=HP_Grupo1
There is nothing new, so there is no point in my flogging my guts out trying to get you something better.
CdM about an hour or so ago.
Spanish criminologist Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez says he found and identified the "woman dressed in purple" that English police say is a key witness in the case of Madeleine McCann's disappearance in Praia da Luz, Lagos, in 2007. Detectives in Scotland Yard look for the 'mystery woman', who will have been seen by two witnesses next to the apartment at the Ocean Club resort, where the McCann family was. The latest information reported that Operation Grange investigators had gone to Bulgaria in search of the woman. Herbierto Gonzalez, a well-known criminologist, now states that he identified the woman. She says she is Luisa Todorov, a Bulgarian national employee who, at the time of Maddie's disappearance, worked at the Ocean Club. According to the criminologist, the 58-year-old woman and her husband Stefan, 5, were questioned by Portuguese authorities five days after Maddie's disappearance and the two have denied seeing or witnessing anything suspicious. However, the two have returned to Bulgaria and were never questioned again. Gonzalez, who has been following the case for 10 years, says Luisa Todorov is the woman who was seen next to the McCanns apartment at 8:00 pm on May 3, 2007. "I have seen, analyzed, and It seems to me that it is very likely that the purple woman the English police are looking for is Mrs. Todorov. They are the only ones with links to Bulgaria and this explains why Scotland Yard was there. I believe they have returned to their country of origin, "says the criminologist. The British police have already followed more than 560 different lines of investigation and even made excavations in Praia da Luz. About 13 million euros have already been spent on Operation Grange and the British government has ceded this year another 175,000 research.
Ler mais em: http://www.cmjornal.pt/mundo/detalhe/mulher-misterio-testemunha-do-desaparecimento-de-maddie-encontrada?ref=HP_Grupo1
There is nothing new, so there is no point in my flogging my guts out trying to get you something better.
So if she is still in Portugal she's now in their newspapers for no real reason as far as we know. The media in both Portugal and the UK should hang their heads in shame in my opinion.
IMO I think it also shows why armchair detectives should not be sharing their theories with the press & be content with giving any useful information they have to only the relevant authorities.
IMO I think it also shows why armchair detectives should not be sharing their theories with the press & be content with giving any useful information they have to only the relevant authorities.
IMO I think it also shows why armchair detectives should not be sharing their theories with the press & be content with giving any useful information they have to only the relevant authorities.
So if she is still in Portugal she's now in their newspapers for no real reason as far as we know. The media in both Portugal and the UK should hang their heads in shame in my opinion.I think we can be fairly certain she is not in Portugal.
I think we can be fairly certain she is not in Portugal.
Why?They would have looked there first Logically IMO.
They would have looked there first Logically IMO.
They would have looked there first Logically IMO.
They would have looked there first Logically IMO.I agree
I agree
Also, too many red herrings being pushed that she is there, in Portugal .... IMO
It's a variation of the old HIDDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT syndrome. Put out enough and well presented disinformation and the gullible will follow it.
It has happened to me, but I think most people know better now.
AIMHO
I agree
Also, too many red herrings being pushed that she is there, in Portugal .... IMO
It's a variation of the old HIDDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT syndrome. Put out enough and well presented disinformation and the gullible will follow it.
It has happened to me, but I think most people know better now.
AIMHO
Whatever way you look at it, why would any police investigation let slip where they are investigating ?Glad to agree with you on that one stephen, unless of course, they have put out a big appeal for information as to hrr whereabouts in Bulgaria.... then it is already public knowledge
Glad to agree with you on that one stephen, unless of course, they have put out a big appeal for information as to hrr whereabouts in Bulgaria.... then it is already public knowledge
They would have looked there first Logically IMO.
Who said they were even looking for her - let alone in Bulgaria - aside from some hack that I'd certainly never heard in a tabloid, that is?
Who said they were even looking for her - let alone in Bulgaria - aside from some hack that I'd certainly never heard in a tabloid, that is?
I am in total agreement on you with that Carana.
What I do find irritating is how this story has spread in tabloid land, without it seems, anyone checking the facts.
Then again tabloids are known for that.
That's the sad thing. Tabloids can print these ridiculous stories in the certain knowledge that they will not be challenged.
The fact that SY make no comment strongly suggests that the information printed is not going to jeopardise their investigations.
IMO I think it also shows why armchair detectives should not be sharing their theories with the press & be content with giving any useful information they have to only the relevant authorities.
Casting aside prejudices; given the manpower, materiel, technology and access to world wide data bases the average national police force has one does really wonder just what the "armchair and notso armchair detective" believes they can bring to the party short of witnessing the event ?
ETA Correction to my earlier post: the original hack didn't mention Bulgaria.
The first I heard of this latest tabloid saga is here, by a certain Neil Tweedie on 3 November:
"It is this ‘woman in purple’, the Mail understands, who is keeping alive Operation Grange, the marathon reinvestigation of the Madeleine McCann case by Scotland Yard, now in its sixth year.
The suspect is believed to be Bulgarian and was living in Praia da Luz with her partner, a man of German or Eastern European descent (now believed to be dead) at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance. It is thought that police interest is linked to discoveries about her late partner’s history.
In the past few months, the Grange team — now down to four detectives from a peak of 31 — has been criss-crossing Europe trying to locate the woman."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5048349/The-TWO-vital-Maddie-questions.html#ixzz4xRZhi3Me
Then Nick Pisa, now working for the Sun, (best known for his "Foxy Knoxy" coverage and particularly a certain hastily deleted article written and published at the drop of a mouse button re the outcome of a court case...) has an "exclusive", published on 4 November:
"Her husband, now dead, is a convicted paedophile."
"Cops have been unable to locate the wife despite extensive searches."
The only bit of that article that might be accurate, and would be consistent with a quick phone call:
A source said: “There is no evidence they were involved but it would be good to eliminate them from the investigation.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4843610/madeleine-mccann-woman-in-purple-bulgaria/
There's more to come...
Casting aside prejudices; given the manpower, materiel, technology and access to world wide data bases the average national police force has one does really wonder just what the "armchair and notso armchair detective" believes they can bring to the party short of witnessing the event ?
That sounds a particularly ludicrous statement. The same could apply to anyone who was in the vicinity at the time.
James Murray seems to have had a relationship with Jenny Murat for a long time, but she clean forgot to mention her woman in purple until 2015!
In 2009 she was telling him all about a mysterious villa;
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/25MAY9/EXPRESS_24_05_09.htm
In 2012 she commented on Kate's book;
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/361930/Jenny-Murat-Kate-McCann-printed-such-awful-things-about-my-Robert-in-her-Madeleine-book
In 2013 he spoke to Robert for a change, but in Jenny's house;
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/397244/Madeleine-world-exclusive-Bring-them-all-back-to-Portugal
In 2015 the woman in purple story surfaces;
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/574547/Maddie-libel-detective-ruined-Retirement-retreat-seized-cover-McCann-payout
I can well imagine the question: "Has the woman in purple been formally identified and eliminated? What about her husband?"
Response:
(No, but)
"A source said: “There is no evidence they were involved but it would be good to eliminate them from the investigation.”
IMO the 2 forces are working to close any possible avenue which a defence may use to show that a known offender reported by several members of the public was never (properly) investigated. I think the 2 teams know exactly where they are going in order to prove something beyond reasonable doubt.
If there is no evidence the couple were involved, I assume that means no phone data or witness statements implicated them in any way or they'd have been sought a long time ago.
In certain circumstances, yes, I find it possible.
You don't have to be a witness to the event to offer specialist knowledge, if you have any: e.g., engineers, builders, architects contacting the police to alert them to details of a particular construction / demolition in the area of interest, for example.
Or, if someone suddenly stumbles on something odd while clearing out a deceased great-uncle's attic that raises a suspicion (still not a direct witness to the events).
Or, any member of the public who notices something potentially relevant that the police may not have been aware of even if it turns out to be a dead-end.
However, this doesn't appear to be the case in this latest tabloid saga.
Wasn't crecheman later in the evening, when it was dark when it would be impossible to distinguish purple from any other colour ?Most cars have monchromatic lights, in other words their beams do not show colour, only shades between black and white. If the sodium lights were as the old sodium lights uised to be, the colour that they gave out was a sickly yellow... and shades of sickly yellow. So she wouild have a mixture of the two.
IMO the 2 forces are working to close any possible avenue which a defence may use to show that a known offender reported by several members of the public was never (properly) investigated. I think the 2 teams know exactly where they are going in order to prove something beyond reasonable doubt.Precisely
If there is no evidence the couple were involved, I assume that means no phone data or witness statements implicated them in any way or they'd have been sought a long time ago.
Well, according to S.I.L., this lady is alive and well in Portugal, and easily contactable.I must have missed that bit. Has he done it? You can say something is easy but when you try you find it not so easy.
I must have missed that bit. Has he done it? You can say something is easy but when you try you find it not so easy.
Most cars have monchromatic lights, in other words their beams do not show colour, only shades between black and white. If the sodium lights were as the old sodium lights uised to be, the colour that they gave out was a sickly yellow... and shades of sickly yellow. So she wouild have a mixture of the two.
However some vehicles (Land Rover fell within this catagory) had head lamps that showed colour. May be Jenny had such a vehicle?
Jassi was referring to a previous poster who thought crecheman might have seen the woman in purple, which seems unlikely. It wasn't dark when Jenny Murat was driving around.You are quite right, it was soon after 8 pm when she drove back, it seems. She drove there at about 7.50 pm. It wopuld be light.
You are quite right, it was soon 8 pm when she drove back, it seems. She drove there at about 7.50 pm. It wopuld be light.You'd be unlikely to go through a supermarket in 10 minutes.
You'd be unlikely to go through a supermarket in 10 minutes.
Buying basics like bread? a full shop I'd agree with.Even parking the car takes 10 minutes.
Even parking the car takes 10 minutes.
Luisa is still living in Almádena and can be seen most mornings as she waits for a bus or a lift to get to her place of work. My source is someone who has lived and worked in Almádena for over 20 years and knows Luisa by name and face.The post by Shining
The PJ Files show clearly that Luisa is Portuguese. The 'Todorov' came from her Bulgarian husband. Those snippets were also confirmed by my source.
If you look at the PJ Files, she and her husband both had jobs in the Millennium that did not bring them into customer contact. I should have asked if Luisa speaks English as well as Portuguese, but I didn't.
Nothing in the PJ Files fits with her being around apartment 5A on 3 May 2007 at 8 pm.
In the unlikely event OG is trying to track her down, it would have taken 5 minutes with Almádena sources, not a hunt across Bulgaria.
I didn't bother with this tale when it emerged, for the simple reason that OG traipsing across Bulgaria seemed nonsensical to me. Without the Bulgarian link, there is nothing to connect Luisa or her husband to a 'woman in purple'.
You'd be unlikely to go through a supermarket in 10 minutes.It's only a fairly small place, you know and at that time of night, my bet is that it was almost empty; straight thru th check out.
If Luisa is yet another innocent caught up in this bloody awful charade she will be horrified and rightly so. So what if she wore purple, is it a crime now?
Yes, John. Anyone who may have worn anything from a dark pink to purple is the latest "critical lead". Whether they did or not. Do keep up. ;)
Grasping at very tenuous straws comes to mind. For SY to disregard the very strong evidence that the child walked out of the apartment that night is in my opinion tantamount to unmitigated incompetence.It was the Portuguese final report that made it clear that woke and wandered was highly unlikely...as you have repeatedly pointed out it is highly likely they have more information than has been released
The reason her name is in the public domain is as a direct result of the Portuguese decision to release the files to the public. I don't really see the reason or benefit for doing thisThat is a really important point - one of your best.
The reason her name is in the public domain is as a direct result of the Portuguese decision to release the files to the public. I don't really see the reason or benefit for doing this
1. They didn't release the files to the public, Duarte Levy did.Who was Duarte Levy again? I know Heriberto.
2. The cause of her name being in the public domain is Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez and the Express.
1. They didn't release the files to the public, Duarte Levy did.By releasing the files to journalists they were bound to get into the public domain
2. The cause of her name being in the public domain is Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez and the Express.
Yes, John. Anyone who may have worn anything from a dark pink to purple is the latest "critical lead". Whether they did or not. Do keep up. ;)
By releasing the files to journalists they were bound to get into the public domain
Why on earth release files to the press.. they are not the most ethical people
Totally ridiculous
It’s an outcome of having an open justice system.
I don't see how that adds to anything
It leads to people being unfairly accused by people playing armchair detective....as has happened in this case
Therefore the naming of this lady would be the price to pay for a more so called open justice system
Who gave her name to the press, and did so, not knowing the facts.AFAIAC the police files should not have been in the public domain.....I don't know another country that does this... do you
As to police services releasing information to the press, hardly unique to the Portuguese.
AFAIAC the police files should not have been in the public domain.....I don't know another country that does this... do you
You mean police forces around the world don't leak information ?So you can't name another country that released files...
Second, when were the files released ?
Perhaps you could remind me of that.
Meanwhile who released the ladies name to the press ?
Who gave her name to the press, and did so, not knowing the facts.
As to police services releasing information to the press, hardly unique to the Portuguese.
So you can't name another country that released files...
You have your opinion I have mine
The information should not have been released imo
That's where the blame lies
Were the files released, after the shelving of the case ?
Who gave Luisa's name to the press ?
I must admit to being hugely perplexed about all of this. The person named may or may not be the "woman in purple" as seen by witnesses.
Why is it considered "wrong" to analyse her statement and look into background information but it is considered wholly appropriate to carry out what is laughingly called "forensic analysis" of every single full stop and "erm" of the files and in very many instances interpreting perfectly innocent examples of everyday occurrence into instances pejorative in the extreme to Madeleine and her family.
If one is wrong in my opinion it stands to reason that it all is wrong and has been since the first unlawfully released and unlawfully translated files appeared on the internet.
I must admit to being hugely perplexed about all of this. The person named may or may not be the "woman in purple" as seen by witnesses.
Why is it considered "wrong" to analyse her statement and look into background information but it is considered wholly appropriate to carry out what is laughingly called "forensic analysis" of every single full stop and "erm" of the files and in very many instances interpreting perfectly innocent examples of everyday occurrence into instances pejorative in the extreme to Madeleine and her family.
If one is wrong in my opinion it stands to reason that it all is wrong and has been since the first unlawfully released and unlawfully translated files appeared on the internet.
Apart from anything else, I'm sure Operation Grange are quite capable of combing the files themselves if they feel the need. For all he knows they have. Either way they are interfering in a live investigation.
Apart from anything else, I'm sure Operation Grange are quite capable of combing the files themselves if they feel the need. For all he knows they have. Either way they are interfering in a live investigation.
I can see a contradiction here. Those who support the McCanns object strongly to suggestions that they were to blame, even though, if she was abducted, their actions contributed. Only the abductor bears the blame, they say.
Now another person who did something he shouldn't have is blameless, they say. He wouldn't have been able to do it but for the files being released. It's those who released the files who are to blame.
It was the Portuguese final report that made it clear that woke and wandered was highly unlikely...as you have repeatedly pointed out it is highly likely they have more information than has been released
As already pointed out it was Joao Carlos who made that observation, not the Prosecutor. To put it bluntly, I think he was wrong to ignore the evidence of his own sniffer dogs. Police should be guided by the tangible evidence and not make spurious comments based on speculations.It would be interesting to know on what basis he was so sure
1. They didn't release the files to the public, Duarte Levy did.
2. The cause of her name being in the public domain is Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez and the Express.
I find it highly irresponsible of a British national newspaper to print the woman's name in the manner they did. I wonder if Luisa would have a case against them for defamation?
I find it highly irresponsible of a British national newspaper to print the woman's name in the manner they did. I wonder if Luisa would have a case against them for defamation?
.....and what of Heriberto in this regard ?
Only if they printed something which was not true, I think.
Her privacy has already been invaded when her name was put into in the public domain along with all the others, with the illegal publication of the files.
What I find ironic is the furore unleashed by this single alleged breach and the total acceptance that others' privacy being invaded, including their most intimate details ... has never been questioned.
Only if they printed something which was not true, I think.
Her privacy has already been invaded when her name was put into in the public domain along with all the others, with the illegal publication of the files.
What I find ironic is the furore unleashed by this single alleged breach and the total acceptance that others' privacy being invaded, including their most intimate details ... has never been questioned.
Heriberto merely supplied the information, the Express should not have published the couples names.
If you are referring to the McCann's Brietta.
Look no further than the details they allowed to be printed in the Sun Newspaper of their private lives.
I find it highly irresponsible of a British national newspaper to print the woman's name in the manner they did. I wonder if Luisa would have a case against them for defamation?
Actually no.
I was referring to all those whose only role was as a witness who subsequently found themselves subject to scrutiny bordering on obsession.
Putting the nannies aside ... let's think of the outrages which have been said about Father Pacheco.
I find it highly irresponsible of a British national newspaper to print the woman's name in the manner they did. I wonder if Luisa would have a case against them for defamation?
'Think I have found who is the woman Grange is trying to locate (and her by then husband). If confirmed, there will be news before next Monday.'
This received 7 votes of support.
hardly defamatory
So, are you saying davel, it was unsubstantiated rubbish ?
He supplied unsubstantiated information.
The difficulty as I see it for the Express is that they indirectly inferred the couple were in some way involved in Madeleine's disappearance.
Her name shouldn't have been made public. All SY said was they were seeking her to ask her if she had any information about Madeleine's disappearance as she was there on the day she was taken, whether she saw something or someone.
If it is this woman, she has now been alerted that the Police are looking for her. If she has nothing to do with the disappearance of Madeleine, then I would expect she would come forward and say so.
Have you a link for that bit ?
She has become the focus of Yard inquiries for months as officers want to know if she saw anything suspicious on the night of Madeleine’s abduction from Praia da Luz when she was aged just three.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/881339/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-waitress-woman-in-purple-scotland-yard-bulgaria
Lest we forget:
"A source told The Sun: 'There is no evidence they were involved but it would be good to eliminate them from the investigation.' "
That masterpiece of prose was buried at the foot of the article from the start.
Heriberto merely supplied the information, the Express should not have published the couples names.
I think there's difference between saying something yourself and reporting what someone else said. In the first case you bear the blame. In the second you don't.
That Brietta has come from both sides of the fence.
You keep on making the same or similar accusations.
You keep on failing to substantiate those accusations when asked to do so but in my opinion even if you could, which you cannot, is nothing more or less than a fallacy of relevance.
However surely there must be a glimmer of recognition that condemnation of the research which has led to the identification of one individual with the starting point for the research being the PJ files cannot be in isolation.
In my opinion it has to be sauce for the goose and the gander.
The researcher in this instance has in my opinion a proven track record of extracting meaningful information from the files ... so it will be interesting to eventually see how far or how close he may be to the mark on this occasion ... but whatever, since the files were illegally released on the internet there has been a concerted effort made on numerous blogs, fora, face book, twitter, newspaper comment sections etc to make use of them.
It cannot be other than a contradiction in terms, in my opinion, to criticise an honest researcher who has done exactly that.
I'm sure SY are capable of deciding who they wish to interview without interference from here and from others
You may value his research, but then given the researchers 1-dimensional stance, I would expect no more.
Also, what other cases has this researcher worked on ?
The other information he came up with was about the mini bus driver and his friends as far as I know. That didn't end well.
For anyone who doesn't know Heri, the mini bus driver is discussed here, just scroll down and look under 'A question'
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-janosch.html
I fail to understand why they place any belief in this person's statements.
I dont place beleif in his statements just as I dont place beleif in the stateemnts of R D Hall..Amaral etc. I simply look at where the evidence points and for me it points to abduction so in that respect I agree with Heri
What evidence of abduction ?
Certainly no forensic evidence to show anyone in the apartment.
Just belief and that isn't evidence.
I am still waiting to hear of a certain parties involvement in other cases.🚀
No one is obliged to provide you with this information.
And you are getting dangerously close to insulting another forum member.
He is the one who placed the information on here in the first instance, and he had votes of support, including one from you Eleanor.
I and others are free to ask questions.
If he chooses not to reply , so be it.
So tell me why the story hasn't been retracted , when it is known that this lady is not Bulgarian, is living in Portugal, and easily contactable. ?
What evidence of abduction ?
Certainly no forensic evidence to show anyone in the apartment.
Just belief and that isn't evidence.
I am still waiting to hear of a certain parties involvement in other cases.🚀
He is the one who placed the information on here in the first instance, and he had votes of support, including one from you Eleanor.
I and others are free to ask questions.
If he chooses not to reply , so be it.
So tell me why the story hasn't been retracted , when it is known that this lady is not Bulgarian, is living in Portugal, and easily contactable. ?
Cite, Please.
Read S.I.L.'s comments on this thread as regards this matter.
The 'story', which is precisely how I regard it, is still running in the Express.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/881339/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-waitress-woman-in-purple-scotland-yard-bulgaria
Read S.I.L.'s comments on this thread as regards this matter.
The 'story', which is precisely how I regard it, is still running in the Express.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/881339/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-waitress-woman-in-purple-scotland-yard-bulgaria
I note this matter is being discussed elsewhere, having passed into the public foray by appearing in several newspapers.
So, even if questions are not asked or answered here, it will make no difference.
Being discussed by half a dozen people...or perhaps even a dozen....who cares
Is that I.Y.O. ?
How would you know ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5099423/Police-investigating-Madeleine-McCann-scouring-Bulgaria.html#comments
Is that I.Y.O. ?
How would you know ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5099423/Police-investigating-Madeleine-McCann-scouring-Bulgaria.html#comments
As far as I am aware there are very few active forums with very few discussing the case...that's my opinion....unless you can show otherwise then you are stating your opinion
That isn't discussion it's comments...and again who cares
Basically, this story is bogus, and should have been removed.
Any police investigation worth their salt, would never reveal where they are investigating, and have SY confirmed any of this ?
8)-)))
Think I have found who is the woman Grange is trying to locate (and her by then husband). If confirmed, there will be news before next Monday.
I believe this is the original post by Heri which you are referring to Stephen. It is worth pointing out however that Heri never identified the woman, it was the Express newspaper which did that.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/881339/madeleine-mccann-police-hunt-waitress-woman-in-purple-scotland-yard-bulgaria
Who gave the Express her name ?
...and that is not excusing the Express or other newspapers carrying this fake story.
Heri obviously did as he told us the information was going to be published on the following Monday. But the fact the Express chose to publish the couples names in full is not down to Heri unless he is moonlighting as the Express editor.
As far as I am concerned, if Heriberto never contacted the Express with her name, there would have been no story, and no mention of her name at all.
He did do so.
Personally, I believe people should be responsible for their actions.
As far as I am concerned, if Heriberto never contacted the Express with her name, there would have been no story, and no mention of her name at all.
He did do so.
Personally, I believe people should be responsible for their actions.
Heri obviously did as he told us the information was going to be published on the following Monday. But the fact the Express chose to publish the couples names in full is not down to Heri unless he is moonlighting as the Express editor.
I agree but the question should be put to Heri in a civil way as to why he chose to inform a newspaper. I would also be interested to know if he informed SY of the information in advance of the media, whether they advised the information should not be made public and if he received a fee for his story from any media organization.
Then write to the Express and complain.
Has this story been picked up in the quality press ?
I don't see what you are getting so excited about....
What harm has been done
You wouldn't be saying that if you were an innocent Luisa. How many more people will fall foul of this fiasco before it ends?
Actually I would.....I would ring up SY and ask them what they needed to know...if anything
Glad to see at least Luisa is entitled to the presumption of innocence
The more recent newspaper story about the woman in purple suggested a hunt for a Bulgarian couple in Bulgaria. We then learned that the man might be deceased so the hunt must be for his wife. A Bulgarian employee is identified from the files but he was married to a Portuguese national who seemingly came from Madeira. We then learn that the woman still lives near Luz and is allegedly known to one of our members. So what is SY looking for in Bulgaria?
What ever it is OG only have four blokes and £174K to do it.
Then why is her name in the press ?
There was no need for it.
I'm surprised you are so shocked....this is what papers are doing all the time. Look at the lies printed about the McCanns.....by the express
...and absolutely no proof they are , or have been in Bulgaria.
Indeed! I remian wedded to the sentiments expressed in posts 58,61,67,121 & 145.
Especially the "and yet another gold mine full of pyrites"..................... ?{)(**
Indeed! I remian wedded to the sentiments expressed in posts 58,61,67,121 & 145.
Especially the "and yet another gold mine full of pyrites"..................... ?{)(**
Then why is her name in the press ?
There was no need for it.
Those stories in the Express disappeared some time ago.
Ever since then, they have shown unfettered support for the Mccanns, and don't question abduction, regardless of the lack of evidence to support it.
Don't assume either that all members of the press support the mccanns, unless you can provide evidence to the contrary.
I don't think many will disagree, Madeleine's disappearance is a cash cow for some.
I remain astounded that you and some others are so incensed by this. As far as I know not one of you have ever raised a single objection either to innocent names being banded about for years or to yourselves or others trawling the files selectively for quotes to suit whatever argument being made at the time.
If it is wrong to access information and publicise one individual from information available in the public domain why has it never occurred to you that it must also be wrong for all those others whose names have been similarly bandied about simply because they have been innocent parties in a police investigation?
I'm equally astounded that you can't see the difference between a discussion forum and a national newspaper. Or between posting anonymously and publicly identifying yourself as some kind of expert. Amaral got a lot of stick for being an expert, didn't he? The difference being that he had the track record to support his claim.I've never seen amarals track record..
I'm equally astounded that you can't see the difference between a discussion forum and a national newspaper. Or between posting anonymously and publicly identifying yourself as some kind of expert. Amaral got a lot of stick for being an expert, didn't he? The difference being that he had the track record to support his claim.
Not everyone posts anonymously though do they? Nor do the fora on which they post shy from promoting, using and linking to the very instrument which has caused the present outrage.
The information regarding the person named in the newspapers has been in the public domain since the day and hour Portuguese law was flouted by the illegal publication of the PJ files on the internet.
That this repository of information ... which enables all sorts of personal information to be accessed such as the crime busting invasion of privacy represented by revelation of Mr Healey's medication ... apparently has become offensive because there are those who now disagree with some of the information under release.
In my opinion it is not the principle which is now found to be objectionable but the fact that the information retrieved just is not liked because it diversifies somewhat from core belief.
Surely a conundrum? Something cannot be selectively wrong ... it either is or is not entirely wrong and all the posturing in the world cannot, in my opinion, detract from that.
Right, wrong, guilty, innocent, pregnant; all absolutes one is or one isn't.
It seems that those who say she should not have been named are repeatedly naming her and providing links to where she is named. If they were truly concerned then why are they doing this. Any news from the lady herself...it seems not. When lambasting the UK press I believe she has also been named by the Portuguese press
As the saying goes, the cat is out of the bag.
I hope she brings a case against the Express, and any of the other tabloids who placed her name in the National Media.
Let's have some constructive city moments please and less of the tit for tat shenanigans.
I dont see any defamation in the article...thats my opinion of course
No, I doubt that the article could be considered defamatory, unless it could be understood that she was evading the police for some nefarious reason.
This woman is a Portuguese National who was ruled out by the PJ in 2007. She was only a witness and not a suspect. Her husband was also ruled out as never left the tapas kitchen all night. This woman in purple is fake news imo.
Shock horror,woman who works in restaurant seen near restaurant!Same or different restaurants?
Same or different restaurants?
Near the McCann apartment is the main problem. Anyone hanging around there needs investigating IMO.
Ok,shock, horror,woman who works in Luz,seen in Luz.
Near the McCann apartment is the main problem. Anyone hanging around there needs investigating IMO.
How would you define 'hanging about'Standing or walking in the area.
Near the McCann apartment is the main problem. Anyone hanging around there needs investigating IMO.
I agree but the question should be put to Heri in a civil way as to why he chose to inform a newspaper. I would also be interested to know if he informed SY of the information in advance of the media, whether they advised the information should not be made public and if he received a fee for his story from any media organization.
Standing or walking in the area.
Near the McCann apartment is the main problem. Anyone hanging around there needs investigating IMO.
If we are to accept that it was a planned snatch then that would cover anyone in the area over a period of six days.With particular emphasis on the Thursday evening/night.
Did you notice the hours the husband worked? Time to abduct children aswell. Pathetic lol.
"He regularly works as a car painter in the Vasco da Gama office in Lagos. He has worked there for almost one year. He begins work at 09.00 and finishes at 18.00, on Fridays he works from 08.30 to 18.30 and for the other days of the week except for Saturdays and Sundays, he works from 08.30 to 18.00."
"He works every day from 20.00 - 24.00 and has Sundays off."
Jane Tanner was seen in PURPLE hanging outside by witness Jez Wilkins.
Yes, difficult to get away from that statement.Investigate both of them IMO.
Investigate both of them IMO.
I guess OG could easily investigate Tanner if they so wished as she is within their jurisdiction.Where does Jez live?
Where does Jez live?
Did you notice the hours the husband worked? Time to abduct children aswell. Pathetic lol.
"He regularly works as a car painter in the Vasco da Gama office in Lagos. He has worked there for almost one year. He begins work at 09.00 and finishes at 18.00, on Fridays he works from 08.30 to 18.30 and for the other days of the week except for Saturdays and Sundays, he works from 08.30 to 18.00."
"He works every day from 20.00 - 24.00 and has Sundays off."
Jane Tanner was seen in PURPLE hanging outside by witness Jez Wilkins.
Another coincidence that two separate women wearing purple where spotted at the same time in virtually the same place ?
All this talk about people hanging round mccanns apartment.
Now indicating it could be an inside job.
Yet they were quite happy to leave twins in creche everyday,after the so called abduction.
Even leaving them, when they wasn't there.
Why did they think it was so safe.
IMO because there was no abduction.
In April/May 2007 that area of Luz seems have been a magnet for "Lurkers".
I wonder what the incidence of "Lurkers" was pre and post that time?
All this talk about people hanging round mccanns apartment.
Now indicating it could be an inside job.
Yet they were quite happy to leave twins in creche everyday,after the so called abduction.
Even leaving them, when they wasn't there.
Why did they think it was so safe.
IMO because there was no abduction.
All this talk about people hanging round mccanns apartment.IMO there was an abduction and that's where the evidence points
Now indicating it could be an inside job.
Yet they were quite happy to leave twins in creche everyday,after the so called abduction.
Even leaving them, when they wasn't there.
Why did they think it was so safe.
IMO because there was no abduction.
Who's to say who should be hanging about and who shouldn't in a busy holiday resort where everyone is a stranger to everyone else. No one knows anyone so they wouldn't know a stranger and who was staying in what apartment. I don't think there was an abduction and the last people to see her should be the ones under investigation imo.
IMO there was an abduction and that's where the evidence points
IMO there was an abduction and that's where the evidence points
I'm afraid your observation is unwarranted. There is no truly independent evidence which can support abduction. A missing child and an open window can suggest many other things. Your continued insistence to the contrary is just a tad obvious.
On the other hand however, the trail followed by two specially trained and wholly independent scent dogs who were brought in immediately after Madeleine disappeared tells a different story. Should it be later proven that she did get out and thereafter met with some mischief the attention will then rightly return to focus on her parents.
Well what evidence is that, Davel.
Surely, not the mysterious woman in purple.
All the circumstantial evidence points to abduction...
As I understand the dogs trail is not considered evidence according to a post by Alice
If we knew why the final report considered woke and wandered highly unlikely we might understand why SAY seem so convinced in abduction
All the circumstantial evidence points to abduction...
As I understand the dogs trail is not considered evidence according to a post by Alice
If we knew why the final report considered woke and wandered highly unlikely we might understand why SAY seem so convinced in abduction
That has been asked for, for some time.
We already know that no forensic evidence has been found of an intruder in the apartment, and the walking out theory is also credible, and accidental death has not been disproved either, inside or outside the apartment.
I M O the circumstantial evidence points to anything but abduction.
The list is endless.
And I have given it many times
Will post again later
There has to be a reason why the Portuguese said woke and wandered was highly unlikely and why both investigations deem the parents not suspects
You are ignoring both the elephants in the room
Actually the scent dog evidence is the elephant in the room.
Circumstantial evidence is only consequential if real tangible evidence is unavailable. In the Madeleine disappearance, there was no indication of an intruder, no valuables were disturbed or missing, no ransom was demanded and the investigation of every trail and possible suspect proved futile.
Circumstantial evidence is only consequential if real tangible evidence is unavailable. In the Madeleine disappearance, there was no indication of an intruder, no valuables were disturbed or missing, no ransom was demanded and the investigation of every trail and possible suspect proved futile.
Police Dogs cannot be cross-examined!
R v Pieterson and Holloway, (1994) The Times, 11th November
There was no authority hitherto in English law as to the admissibility of evidence concerning a tracker dog. There were a number of authorities from other jurisdictions including R v Te Whiu and Buckton [1964] NZLR 748 where it was held that a person giving evidence of a tracker dog's actions must not express his opinion about what the dog was thinking at the material time. This decision, R v Pieterson and Holloway, (1994) The Times, 11th November should blaze an English trail and set a precedent for any future dog tracking.
The case concerns the admissibility of tracker dog evidence. Within minutes of a robbery, Ben, a police dog, searched an area surrounding a club and picked up a track. Both appeals were based on the contention that the judge was wrong to admit evidence concerning the tracker dog's actions.
The submission was that that evidence was, in effect or certainly analogous to, hearsay because there was only the handler's evidence of the actions or reactions of the dog; which could not be cross examined.
Alternatively it was submitted that the evidence with regard to such tracker dogs was unreliable, that a dog had a will of its own and might act mischievously or, even without that, might act in a way inconsistent with the Pavlovian reaction sought to be induced in the dog by its training.
The Court of Appeal ruled, (with safeguards); that if a dog handler could establish that the dog had been properly trained and, over a period of time, the dog's reactions indicated that it was a reliable pointer to the existence of a scent of some particular individual then that evidence should properly be admitted.
Bottom line.
There is no forensic evidence of anyone else in the apartment has been found.
As to abduction, just one of the unproven theories.
Thanks for that.
I am afraid without tangible evidence of an intruder into the apartment, abduction is a dead duck.
I M O the circumstantial evidence points to anything but abduction.
The list is endless.
That's your opinion....and you are totally wrong imo...and in SYs official opinion
They haven't solved the case by looking only at abduction.
All the circumstantial evidence points to abduction...
As I understand the dogs trail is not considered evidence according to a post by Alice
If we knew why the final report considered woke and wandered highly unlikely we might understand why SAY seem so convinced in abduction
Doesn't mean an abduction didn't take place...it may well have been the forensic examination of the apartment was poor
Maddie's sheets being sent to the laundry for instance...they should still be available
In this search the following was recovered:
- various hairs from the floor in the area of the doorway of the bedroom with two single beds from where the minor disappeared, they being placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC and referenced as trace evidence #1;
- various hairs from the floor area next to the bed where the missing child was sleeping, they being placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC and referenced as trace evidence #2;
- various hairs from the top of the bed where the missing child was sleeping, they being placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC and referenced as trace evidence #3;
- various hairs from the floor area next to the bed opposite to the bed from which the sleeping child disappeared, they being placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC and referenced as trace evidence #4;
- various hairs from the floor of the living room, they being placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC and referenced as trace evidence #6;
- various hairs from the floor of the main door entrance hallway of the apartment, they being placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC and referenced as trace evidence #7;
On the single bed opposite to that from which the child disappeared, despite it being impregnated the red-coloured chemical product referred to, the search for hairs proceeded,that search having been negative.
After the recovery of hairs described above there proceeded the search for possible traces of semen, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, there being identified various [several] areas where fluorescence characteristic of this type of trace evidence was seen.
The areas where the fluorescence was seen were submitted to a "Phosphatise test" search there being a slightly positive reaction (purplish colour) only in area of the bed-cover of the single bed opposite to the bed from where the minor disappeared, a piece of that bed-cover being collected and placed inside a paper envelope in accordance with instructions issued by the Biology Section of the LPC, it being referenced as trace evidence #5;
A search was also made for possible biological traces and fibres on the single bed from where the minor disappeared, using a variable-wave light source appropriate for the task, the result obtained having been negative.
The area of the pillow of the bed from the minor disappeared was inspected with the intention to detect the presence of some smell [aroma] characteristic of volatile substances typical of chloroform or ether, this search proving negative
There proceeded the search for possible blood traces in all of the apartment, using a variable- wave light source appropriate for the task.This search resulted in the detection of several spots having a red-brown tone that suggested blood, which were subjected to a "Kastle-Mayer" peroxidise test, the result obtained, in all cases, being negative.
There also proceeded the observation and search for blood traces inside the apartment using a chemical product to find latent blood traces. In the application of the referred product no results characteristic of the presence of blood traces were found.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
Does that mean that there were no traces of Madeleine found on her bed ?
I don't know what Teresa May thought about the case, but I know that her predecessor, Alan Johnson,was 'enormously sympathetic to their case'' and 'absolutely clear that they (the McCanns) were the victims in all of this'. His opinion of how the Portuguese police treated the McCanns was 'disgraceful'. He thought they ;hadn't had the benefit of a proper police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance'. From 5:12 on the video;SY said they looked at the evidence the PJ had gathered and were happy with it.....there is no real evidence against the parents...
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/60april12/PANORAMA_20_04_2012.htm
Quite how he reached his conclusions he doesn't explain. Indeed, he acknowledges that press reports suggested the opposite and that he had no real knowledge of the PJ investigation. All he says is he met with the McCanns in 2009. Is that when he decided they were victims? This seems to have led to the request for CEOP's scoping exercise, completed in March 2010.
It's strange how many people seem convinced of the McCann's innocence just by meeting them. Either they are incredibly persuasive or the people they meet are incredibly naive in my opinion.
It seems possible that government ministers were clear about what SY were required to do. HELP THE FAMILY, as Cameron put it.
I don't know what Teresa May thought about the case, but I know that her predecessor, Alan Johnson,was 'enormously sympathetic to their case'' and 'absolutely clear that they (the McCanns) were the victims in all of this'. His opinion of how the Portuguese police treated the McCanns was 'disgraceful'. He thought they ;hadn't had the benefit of a proper police investigation into Madeleine's disappearance'. From 5:12 on the video;
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/60april12/PANORAMA_20_04_2012.htm
Quite how he reached his conclusions he doesn't explain. Indeed, he acknowledges that press reports suggested the opposite and that he had no real knowledge of the PJ investigation. All he says is he met with the McCanns in 2009. Is that when he decided they were victims? This seems to have led to the request for CEOP's scoping exercise, completed in March 2010.
It's strange how many people seem convinced of the McCann's innocence just by meeting them. Either they are incredibly persuasive or the people they meet are incredibly naive in my opinion.
It seems possible that government ministers were clear about what SY were required to do. HELP THE FAMILY, as Cameron put it.
You are making a massive assumption that SY have simply disregard the parents...you are totally wrong imo
They have stated that they looked at the evidence gathered by the pj and were happy that the parents were not involved
You idea that SY are ignoring evidence against the parents is misguided imo
The PJ and the Portuguese Prosecutors were unable to identify the crime.I do believe the met are far superior to the initial investigators who targeted the parents due to their failure to understand the canine and forensic evidence
Along come the Metropolitan Police and they can.
Both used the same evidence.
Do you really believe that the Metropolitan Police are so superior?
I'm not 100 per cent but as I understand its the same as the alerts and not considered reliable evidence
Why would the Portuguese ignore their own dogs
You are making a massive assumption that SY have simply disregard the parents...you are totally wrong imo
They have stated that they looked at the evidence gathered by the pj and were happy that the parents were not involved
You idea that SY are ignoring evidence against the parents is misguided imo
As previously pointed out, we aren't privy to SY's actual thinking in this case. Anything they say publicly can be taken with a big pinch of sodium chloride.
Mark Rowley was very clear and I would be totally astonished if he wasn't speaking truthfully.
It isn't just what SY and the Portuguese have said...
Taken with everything else it's obvious ..imo..the parents are not suspects
Not so, they have not demonstrated their innocence according to the highest court in Portugal.
I think the ECHR may have something to say about that....it's basically impossible to demonstrate innocence....Barry George still hasn't managed it despite two trials
I doubt it very much, we all know the ECHR cannot overturn decisions by National courts.
Now back on topic please.
I don't want to pursue this discussion into yet another canine debate but I must point out one major difference between said scent dogs and the CSI dogs deployed by Mark Harrison. The scent dogs follow the ACTUAL SCENT left by their target whereas the CSI dogs look for various scents UNASSOCIATED with the target.
Consequently, it is beyond doubt that the GNR scent dogs both followed Madeleine's scent, the only question is, when was that trail laid down.
The parents have been ruled out ..w and w... highly unlikely
So they have looked at other scenarios
you say beyond doubt,....the dog handlers say different..
- I would like to clarify that a search in a bad area, where a more intense odour perceived by the sniffer dog, such as in an urban area due to the large concentration of external odours, make it possible to confuse the dog. In this situation, search activity is very difficult as is the case when some time has passed since the event in question.
- Because he is asked, he states that in relation to this, it is difficult to evaluate precisely the work of the sniffer dog. It is clear that some conditions involved in this action augment the degree of uncertainty. The signalling of the dog may only signify that they are confirming an intense odour in a zone. On the other hand, given the interest of the dog(s) in some of the apartment doorways, this could signify nothing, but could also very well mean that the dog has caught the odour. The dog did not demonstrate to its owner that it had found the scent it was searching for.
then take this into account..
It should be taken into account that the second sniffer dog may have been conditioned by the first sniffer dog. That is to say that in the case of doubt, the second dog may have followed the second of the first.
that doesnt sound like beyond doubt to me....all taken from the files
SY said they looked at the evidence the PJ had gathered and were happy with it.....there is no real evidence against the parents...
Also taken from the files and from the same statement;
He remembers that on the 4th of May of the current year, around 23H00, they attempted to tentatively identify and thus reconstruct the path taken by the missing minor.
Taking into account the aforementioned results, he states that it can be confirmed with a certain degree of certainty that the missing child passed by that location, on that day or on a previous day.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANTONIO_SILVA.htm
These were the tracker dogs from Lisbon. Before they arrived the patrol dogs had already followed the same track.
The tracker dogs had another go on 8th, which is what your quotes mostly refer to.
Yet we are supposed to be lead to believe per thread title that SY still want to investigate some one who was also already interviewed as witnessed in the same PJ files.
I think its absolutely clear how unlikely and abduction was which supports the mccanns decision not to be concerned about it
They locked the apartment during the day, so that argument holds no water.
you are making an assumption that this is what SY want...thats all it is ...an assumption
SY won't reveal the crucial line of inquiry. Rowley made that clear.Rowley also made it clear as have the portguese that the parents are not suspects
(http://i68.tinypic.com/x6079.png)
I'm not Madeleine McCann case "woman in purple" insists waitress after criminologist's claim
After a criminologist identified Luisa Todorov as the mystery women police are said to be searching for, she claims to have "no idea about" any such person
The hunt continues for the “woman in purple” in the Madeleine McCann probe after a waitress whose name came up insisted: “It wasn’t me.”
A criminologist claimed to have identified Luisa Todorov as the mystery person police are said to be searching for.
And we discovered she lives less than a mile from Praia da Luz in the Algarve, where Maddie disappeared.
Luisa, 58, was working at the resort where the McCanns were staying. But she insisted she is not the woman in purple and has not been approached by Scotland Yard detectives.
She told the Mirror: “I’ve no idea about any woman in purple. It wasn’t me. I spoke to the police a long time ago about the Madeleine case.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/it-wasnt-me-waitress-who-11573764
The only surprise is how many believe such nonsense. Easy to do in this case 8(0(*
No...its way ahead of the question posed...and puts the question into context
At least we now know Luisa is not the woman in purple the police are reportedly seeking. That's last week's & this week's Madeleine news sorted.Tell us how you do it Misty? Bubbling brews etc and magic chants "Avada Kedavra"
Next week Sergey's new book will be the main feature.
IMHO & without the aid of crystals or magic beans.
I'm not Madeleine McCann case "woman in purple" insists waitress after criminologist's claim
After a criminologist identified Luisa Todorov as the mystery women police are said to be searching for, she claims to have "no idea about" any such person
By Martin Fricker
22:04, 23 NOV 2017 UPDATED 22:10, 23 NOV 2017
The hunt continues for the “woman in purple” in the Madeleine McCann probe after a waitress whose name came up insisted: “It wasn’t me.”
A criminologist claimed to have identified Luisa Todorov as the mystery person police are said to be searching for.
And we discovered she lives less than a mile from Praia da Luz in the Algarve, where Maddie disappeared.
Luisa, 58, was working at the resort where the McCanns were staying. But she insisted she is not the woman in purple and has not been approached by Scotland Yard detectives.
She told the Mirror: “I’ve no idea about any woman in purple. It wasn’t me. I spoke to the police a long time ago about the Madeleine case.
“I don’t really want to talk about it, nobody around here does, it brings back lots of bad memories.
“Nobody knows what happened to her. If the British police want to speak to me that’s fine, but I don’t know anything.”
Two separate witnesses saw the mystery woman in purple standing outside the apartment where three-year-old Maddie was snatched in May 2007.
Criminologist Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez recently named the woman as Luisa, who now uses her maiden name Camara on social media.
The restaurant worker, originally from Madeira, gave a statement to Portuguese police five days after Maddie’s disappearance, along with husband Stefan, 50.
He also worked at the Ocean Club resort, in the kitchens, and is believed to have returned to his native Bulgaria without being quizzed again.
Both strenuously deny any involvement in Maddie’s abduction and were only interviewed as potential witnesses. The youngster’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann , from Rothley, Leics, have never given up hope of finding their daughter, who would now be 14.
They were dining with friends in a restaurant near the apartment when she vanished from a ground-floor bedroom.
Despite a massive police investigation, there have been no confirmed sightings of Maddie in more than a decade
Officers have made no arrests, despite investigating 60 people of interest and taking more than 1,300 witness statements. More than 500 lines of enquiry have been probed and areas of Praia da Luz dug up in the search for clues.
Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange was massively scaled back in 2015. There are now four detectives working on the case.
In September it emerged £154,000 in Home Office funding had been granted to continue the £12million probe for another six months.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/it-wasnt-me-waitress-who-11573764
you are making an assumption that this is what SY want...thats all it is ...an assumption
I'm not Madeleine McCann case "woman in purple" insists waitress after criminologist's claimAnother shock,woman who works in Luz,was seen in Luz,now it turns out she lives in Luz.My,my,my.
And we discovered she lives less than a mile from Praia da Luz in the Algarve, where Maddie disappeared.
Luisa, 58, was working at the resort where the McCanns were staying. But she insisted she is not the woman in purple and has not been approached by Scotland Yard detectives.
Detectives searching for the youngster have been scouring Europe in an attempt to locate the mysterious figure, who was the main lead keeping the investigation alive.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5113205/Maddie-McCann-Waitress-DENIES-woman-purple.html#ixzz4zKwiBAvl
Luisa Todorov, who worked in the resort, was recently cited by criminologist Heriberto Janosch Gonzalez as being the 'woman in purple' and still lives less than a mile away from site where Maddie disappeared from.
Now the Mail are in on it,its not April fool is it.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5113205/Maddie-McCann-Waitress-DENIES-woman-purple.html#ixzz4zKwiBAvl
.......................and now the Sun has joined in.
'IT'S NOT ME!'
Madeleine McCann twist as waitress denies she is the mysterious ‘woman in purple’
Scotland Yard detectives questioned Luisa Todorov years ago, but the woman insisted she wasn't the figure spotted outside the McCann's apartment in 2007
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4987394/madeleine-mccann-search-waitress-woman-in-purple-bulgaria-portugal/
I really can't get over the stupidity of statement -
A source told The Sun: 'There is no evidence they were involved but it would be good to eliminate them from the investigation.'
She has already been questioned and so if there is no evidence of involvement of such a peripheral figure , then there is no need to be investigated again
I do believe the met are far superior to the initial investigators who targeted the parents due to their failure to understand the canine and forensic evidence
I totally agree. Also the fact that SY detectives will not be adversely affected by the many culture differences - some of which IMO caused the PJ to be unnecessarily suspicious of the McCanns..
It seems clear to me that UK police officers and some PJ officers of Amaral's 'generation' (the old school) have very different attitudes and understandings as to what constitutes legitimate proof/ evidence. For instance a 'dream' would never be regarded by SY detectives as a reason to change the whole direction of a case imo.
IMO both the differences in culture and the language barrier worked against the McCanns throughout their time in Portugal.
SY are in the superior position of not being in danger of being wrongly influenced or sidetracked by a lack of understanding caused by cultural differences.
AIMHO
SY in a superior position? can't solve it though.
Jane is the one wearing purple identified by name by Jez and if there is anyone who should beinterrogatedquestioned by police, it's her
I wonder why some think SY are in a superior position, having 'investigated' the case longer than the PJ did initially, and have progressed no further.
Cultural differences ?
Really ?
Are you saying that it is part of British Culture to leave children unattended and unsafe, whilst parents go out to wine and dine ?
It is not unusual for UK parents ON HOLIDAY to adopt the Listening method of childcare when they went to dinner and have been doing this for decades.
You may not agree with it and you are entitled to your opinion. However that doesn't alter the fact that other people do agree with it and are also entitled to their opinions.
It seems to me that the PJ were not immediately familiar with this method of childcare. I presume that was because it is not part of their culture.
IMO
Probably because they've had unlimited finance and other resources thrown at it.
However, for all the technology available to them, they appear to have made little headway.
Eliminating hundreds of people who had no involvement in the first place can hardly be called progress.
Detectives searching for the youngster have been scouring Europe in an attempt to locate the mysterious figure, who was the main lead keeping the investigation alive.
Erm, according to whom, besides the tabloids?
Mrs Todorov, 48, worked there with her husband, Stefan, who has since returned to his homeland of Bulgaria.
Did she confirm that? If so, why no direct quote?
It is this 'woman in purple', the Mail understands, who is keeping alive Operation Grange, the marathon reinvestigation of the Madeleine McCann case by Scotland Yard, now in its sixth year.
(...)
In the past few months, the Grange team — now down to four detectives from a peak of 31 — has been criss-crossing Europe trying to locate the woman.
(...)
Their budget had been due to run out in September, but officers are understood to have used the 'woman in purple' line of investigation to persuade the Home Office — which is financing the inquiry from central government funds — to grant a six-month extension.
But where exactly did the Mail get this "understanding" from?
"...It must be asked why it has taken ten years for attention to focus on this suspect?"
(...)
"Why is the British taxpayer being asked to finance Operation Grange further when all other leads have come to dispiriting dead-ends?"
Cue howls of outrage at taxpayers's money on bungling police operation. Hardly subtle, is it?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5113205/Maddie-McCann-Waitress-DENIES-woman-purple.html#ixzz4zLFXItB8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
I disagree there, Jassi.
If you're looking for a potential diamond in a boxful of glass pebbles, eliminating the pebbles narrows down the possibilities. Time-consuming donkey work, for sure, but I don't see how else they could have systematically drilled down to a single "critical lead".
ETA: to keep vaguely to topic - the "critical lead" in question doesn't appear to have been this lady.
What childcare ?
Wasn't one of the children ill, and still left alone ?
"critical lead"
Which means exactly what ?
I've heard that phraseology before.
Predictable though Carana.
Probably because they've had unlimited finance and other resources thrown at it.
However, for all the technology available to them, they appear to have made little headway.
Eliminating hundreds of people who had no involvement in the first place can hardly be called progress.
Well, I suppose it takes the heat off Brexit for a few minutes. ;)
Seriously, what's the point of plugging every hole in a bucket unless you plug the last remaining one as well?
This last lead may also turn out to be irrelevant, but at least there's a vast database to consult if ever any new information needs to be checked out.
Aside from whatever happened to Madeleine, whoever assaulted those kids (whether the same person in all instances or different ones) needs to be found, and so far, he (or they) could still be at large.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
How could SY know in advance, i.e. BEFORE they investigated them - that as a result of their investigations people would be eliminated?
Eliminating potential suspects from an investigation is perfectly normal police practice imo.
She said she was wearing Rob's fleece, but wasn't asked what colour it was. She said she called across the carpark to Rob to check what time it was. I suppose it's possible that Jes simply didn't notice Rob, or else it may simply not have been her and Jes was mistaken.
No.
Where did that come from? Who is Rob?
No.
Around 19h00 each one went to their apartment with the children. She bathed her daughters, she read them a story, she put them to bed. Ev was sick and had difficulty with sleeping stayed with her father, who had arrived in the meantime, (on the previous night the deponent stayed later in the bedroom because her daughter had difficulty in sleeping; on this night it was her husband's turn). She left the apartment and went to the Tapas, for dinner, around 20h30.
When she arrived at the restaurant there were already some adult members of the group, namely the McCanns, without their children. They [the children] were supposedly sleeping.
Around 21h00 her husband arrived at the restaurant, Ev, meanwhile, having fallen asleep.
Jane is the one wearing purple identified by name by Jez and if there is anyone who should beinterrogatedquestioned by police, it's her
She said she was wearing Rob's fleece, but wasn't asked what colour it was. She said she called across the carpark to Rob to check what time it was. I suppose it's possible that Jes simply didn't notice Rob, or else it may simply not have been her and Jes was mistaken.When?
Around 19h00 each one went to their apartment with the children. She bathed her daughters, she read them a story, she put them to bed. Ev was sick and had difficulty with sleeping stayed with her father, who had arrived in the meantime, (on the previous night the deponent stayed later in the bedroom because her daughter had difficulty in sleeping; on this night it was her husband's turn). She left the apartment and went to the Tapas, for dinner, around 20h30.
Not OG's job, of course, that's the responsibility of the Portuguese police.
British police have more than enough to do trying to keep on top of British crimes
If the police do consider the 'woman in purple' to be of importance then the idea that JT has not been interviewed over this is not remotely credible IMO.
Rowley tells us that they have not questioned the parents,so why should it not follow that they have not questioned the others?
Besides imo there is no police consideration for this particular woman who went to Bulgaria but didn't.
When?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm
When?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JANE-TANNER-10MAY.htm
Rowley tells us that they have not questioned the parents,so why should it not follow that they have not questioned the others?
Besides imo there is no police consideration for this particular woman who went to Bulgaria but didn't.
IIRC Jez Wilkins thought it was JT who he saw dressed in purple. If SY are interested in finding out who this person is then surely in view of what Jez had said - contact with JT for clarification would be the obvious thing to do. So why would they not do that?
Rowley has not said the parents have not been interviewed
Two points to that, firstly the involvement of the parents, that was dealt with at the time by the original investigation by the Portuguese. We had a look at all the material and we are happy that was all dealt with and there is no reason whatsoever to reopen that or start rumours that was a line of investigation.
If Jane left at about 8.30, leaving Russell with sick child, when did Russell arrive at the Tapas?
At around 7.15/7.30pm, the informant went back to his apartment. He read stories to his daughters, including **** who was feeling better. His partner, Jane, went to have dinner at the "TAPAS" restaurant at around 8.30pm and he went there at around 8.45pm. When he arrived at the restaurant, nearly all the adults were present, without children, with the exception of David, Fiona and Diane. They arrived more or less 5 minutes later.http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN.htm
One has to ask who, if anyone, is likely to benefit from this story about a woman in purple?The newspapers...I thought that was obvious
The newspapers...I thought that was obvious
In this day of the internet I'm not sure that sales are impacted with any such nonsense,was this story front page?
Personally if there was an headline choice regarding the McCann saga v one of Englands exploits at the Gabba,cricket would win out.
At least we now know Luisa is not the woman in purple the police are reportedly seeking. That's last week's & this week's Madeleine news sorted.
Next week Sergey's new book will be the main feature.
IMHO & without the aid of crystals or magic beans.
This appeared recently in the tabloids, but I can't find the original article, for the moment, and so am resorting to Anorak.
Mea culpa: I should have double-checked before posting.
And in 2009, the Express reported the words of a woman who wished to remain anonymous:
The slim, Portuguese-looking woman in a plum-coloured top and white skirt with long, dark, swept-back hair acted furtively when she was spotted at 8pm on May 3 in 2007 near the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex.
http://www.anorak.co.uk/439414/tabloids/madeleine-mccann-the-woman-in-purple-and-plum.html/
If that description refers to anyone in the group, it sounds more like Rachel (IMO) than Jane.
As others have pointed out, JT did indeed state that she'd left alone.
In this day of the internet I'm not sure that sales are impacted with any such nonsense,was this story front page?
Personally if there was an headline choice regarding the McCann saga v one of Englands exploits at the Gabba,cricket would win out.
While media might benefit financially,IMO, this story was deliberately fed to them, for some obscure reason that we are not party to.
Will we ever hear an apology for why this ever appeared in the press.It is sorted that is the important part.
Will we ever hear an apology for why this ever appeared in the press.
If this really was the final,ultimate, eventual, last,conclusive, terminal, endmost lead then it's game over...... &%%6
Wait what have we here? a source close to the investigation says it has evidence the witness had recently failed the Ishihara Test, consequentlythe top was possibly mauve not purple ........ back on yer 'eads.................... 8)><(
If this really was the final,ultimate, eventual, last,conclusive, terminal, endmost lead then it's game over...... &%%6
Wait what have we here? a source close to the investigation says it has evidence the witness had recently failed the Ishihara Test, consequentlythe top was possibly mauve not purple ........ back on yer 'eads.................... 8)><(
If this really was the final,ultimate, eventual, last,conclusive, terminal, endmost lead then it's game over...... &%%6What colour is purple anyway? (http://forum.englishforlife.mk/index.php?u=/serve/attachment&path=585e8e3b95151.jpg)
Wait what have we here? a source close to the investigation says it has evidence the witness had recently failed the Ishihara Test, consequentlythe top was possibly mauve not purple ........ back on yer 'eads.................... 8)><(
I just looked at Heri's blog for the video of the shutter video & discovered that there is only one post remaining. Has the woman in purple had her revenge?
http://espacioexterior.blogspot.co.uk/2017/11/the-abduction-of-madeleine-mccann-my.html
I doubt if it was anything to do with her, I don't think anything was written about her on there.
She's made contact with him within the last week on F/B.