Telephones at White House Farm and JB's insistance that NB phoned him.

[scipio_usmc]

Something else worth remembering, the doors were locked from the inside so even if he had a key he wouldn't have been able to open them.  The other thing is that the police didn't have to break down the back door in order to gain access as Jeremy knew how to get into the house using a window.  Convenient wasn't it that he forgot to tell the police about this BEFORE they forced entry to the property.

The invented telephone call from Nevill was Jeremy's attempt at creating an alibi, quite a pathetic effort really.  Who in their right mind would call their girlfriend for a chat in such circumstances before attempting to call the police and especially so at 3am in the morning.  It is telling that Mugford didn't take him on and told him to go back to bed, obviously she assumed this was yet another one of his fantasies.

Do you have a source that states they were locked from the inside?  I recall a police statement to the effect a key to the back door was sitting on a shelf.  I haven;t read anything that indicated the keys were inside the locks. 

There was a spare key kept on the premises (barn or something like that I don't recall the precise location) which Jeremy never told the police about.  Whether that key would have been of any use of course depends on whether a key was in the lock or not.

As for the window, I always thought it odd that Jeremy let police know he could get in from the window.  He didn't tell them till later though of course.  Why he told them at all is what makes me wonder.

   

[John]

Do you have a source that states they were locked from the inside?  I recall a police statement to the effect a key to the back door was sitting on a shelf.  I haven;t read anything that indicated the keys were inside the locks. 

There was a spare key kept on the premises (barn or something like that I don't recall the precise location) which Jeremy never told the police about.  Whether that key would have been of any use of course depends on whether a key was in the lock or not.

As for the window, I always thought it odd that Jeremy let police know he could get in from the window.  He didn't tell them till later though of course.  Why he told them at all is what makes me wonder.

 

It is in the statements somewhere, the doors could only be opened from the inside after the family had retired for the night.  This was yet another reason why a 3rd party intruder was discounted.  They could not have left without leaving a door unlocked.

Only Jerry knew the secret of the unsecure window.

[Joanne]

That's what happened to me John, my friend had locked both front and back doors (not that I knew how to access his garden it was a row of bungalows and it was dark) and left the keys in situ, they ended up breaking the glass in the back door and 'rolling' it down, it didn't smash as such.
Scipio_usmc you certainly know this case inside and outside.

[Holly Goodhead]

Something else worth remembering, the doors were locked from the inside so even if he had a key he wouldn't have been able to open them.  The other thing is that the police didn't have to break down the back door in order to gain access as Jeremy knew how to get into the house using a window.  Convenient wasn't it that he forgot to tell the police about this BEFORE they forced entry to the property.

The invented telephone call from Nevill was Jeremy's attempt at creating an alibi, quite a pathetic effort really.  Who in their right mind would call their girlfriend for a chat in such circumstances before attempting to call the police and especially so at 3am in the morning.  It is telling that Mugford didn't take him on and told him to go back to bed, obviously she assumed this was yet another one of his fantasies.

Bews states in the following vid (3.30 in) that he wasn't going to run the risk of knocking on the front door, or even going up close to the property, for fear of getting shot at (big girls blouse).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EDp_tqUysI

Are you suggesting that member(s) of EP should have put themselves in a compromising position by squeezing their bulky (protective vests/helmets) frames through a small window?  They would have been in a very vulnerable position had anyone appeared with a gun.  Others would not have been able to cover for them.  It goes against my TA training (now known as the Army Reserves) and I would think TFG too? Breaking down the door was imo the right tactical decision.

[John]

Bews states in the following vid (3.30 in) that he wasn't going to run the risk of knocking on the front door, or even going up close to the property, for fear of getting shot at (big girls blouse).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EDp_tqUysI

Are you suggesting that member(s) of EP should have put themselves in a compromising position by squeezing their bulky (protective vests/helmets) frames through a small window?  They would have been in a very vulnerable position had anyone appeared with a gun.  Others would not have been able to cover for them.  It goes against my TA training (now known as the Army Reserves) and I would think TFG too? Breaking down the door was imo the right tactical decision.

Jeremy knew he could get in using the window and could have done so if he had wanted. But that wasn't part of the plan obviously.

 

[scipio_usmc]

Bews states in the following vid (3.30 in) that he wasn't going to run the risk of knocking on the front door, or even going up close to the property, for fear of getting shot at (big girls blouse).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EDp_tqUysI

Are you suggesting that member(s) of EP should have put themselves in a compromising position by squeezing their bulky (protective vests/helmets) frames through a small window?  They would have been in a very vulnerable position had anyone appeared with a gun.  Others would not have been able to cover for them.  It goes against my TA training (now known as the Army Reserves) and I would think TFG too? Breaking down the door was imo the right tactical decision.

If there was in fact a living gunman inside then breaking the door down would have alerted the gunman to their presence and oculd have provoked a response.  If there is a way to sneak inside that is a better option.  That is why it would have been a big deal if the key wasn't in the door. There was a spare key hidden around the premises that could have been used to sneak in.  Moroever, they were so scared of being shot because of Jeremy's lies.  He told police Sheila had fired and was proficient with all the guns in the house when in fact she had never used any of them. He even told some officers that he had given her lessons on how to use the murder weapon!

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=166.0 page 3-4

He also later claimed that she had gone shooting with Nevill and Anthony.  Anthony denied this and he changed his story to never seeing her touch a gun as an adult. You never account for such lies which served no valid purpose.  You pretend such lies never happened because they are damning.

He told other police varying things as well such as saying that after the phone went dead he tried to call back but no one would answer.  It didn't go dead though the call was disconnected on his end so he dropped this claim after the bodies were found.  All his dropped claims he attributed to police lying and denied ever making such contradictory claims, how convenient.

[scipio_usmc]

It is in the statements somewhere, the doors could only be opened from the inside after the family had retired for the night.  This was yet another reason why a 3rd party intruder was discounted.  They could not have left without leaving a door unlocked.

Only Jerry knew the secret of the unsecure window.

The source for the claim the doors were normally bolted from the inside is Jeremy.  I found the statements you were referring to though. I was aware that police indicated in their statements that Jeremy told them he did not have access to a key and that the usual practice was to lock and bolt the door from the inside so it likely was bolted from the inside.  He lied because there was a spare key kept on the premises. To be accurate he should have stated there is a spare key but it probably won't do any good because the door is usually bolted from the inside.  Given his lies I didn't consider his claim alone worth much.

Apparently PC Collins though said that he saw a key in the lock when he looked into it.

 
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=166.0 page 4

page 8 states the other doors were secured from the inside by locks and bolts.

Woodcock notes at the end he never looked for a suppressor only ammunition and firearms

 

[Lindyhop]

As for the window, I always thought it odd that Jeremy let police know he could get in from the window.  He didn't tell them till later though of course.  Why he told them at all is what makes me wonder.

I thought this was because he had become a suspect and knew his fingerprints may have been on that window, especially if he had done a dress rehearsal earlier. If his fingerprints were found there and he had maintained that he'd never used that window,  the prosecution could have used this against him.

[scipio_usmc]

I thought this was because he had become a suspect and knew his fingerprints may have been on that window, especially if he had done a dress rehearsal earlier. If his fingerprints were found there and he had maintained that he'd never used that window,  the prosecution could have used this against him.

I thought he claimed to have opened the windows because the house smelled from cleaners.  You are right that such could have been his motive for telling police that is how he entered when he needed to get some things after the murders.  His prints on the windows would not be that suspicious though given he lived there. He could have given a more innocent excuse. He didn't seem to think well on the fly and outsmarted himself instead of the police.

I personally have been able to knock skelton keys out of mortise locks using either the key to force it out or if it was turned inside then I would use long needlenose pliers to turn it to the point where I could force it out. So that could be why he didn't want to tell them about the spare key to get in.

If I had been in his place no way would I have told police I could gain access through the windows.  The house being locked from the inside was a major asset to claiming it had to have been carried out by someone inside the house.  Letting police known he could get in through the window hurt his cause way more than saying he opened and closed the windows plenty of times so his prints should be expected on some of them.  If he was smarter he would not have gotten convicted though so thank goodness for stupid criminals.   

[Holly Goodhead]

Posters on Blue seem to think that simply unplugging the 'master' phone will disable the others.  I think they will find this is incorrect.  Only removing a handset from the cradle, which causes the line to become engaged, will disable extension phones. 

Check it out on your home telephony with your mobiles.

[John]

Posters on Blue seem to think that simply unplugging the 'master' phone will disable the others.  I think they will find this is incorrect.  Only removing a handset from the cradle, which causes the line to become engaged, will disable extension phones. 

Check it out on your home telephony with your mobiles.

That's correct Holly, telephones are wired in such a way that all or any of them can be used regardless of which ones are or aren't plugged in.  However, lifting the handset will not disable the other extensions as long as a dialing tone can be heard.

The master phone in older properties back in 1985 tended to be in the hall or the study and not in a bedroom or an office.  That said and out of interest, does anyone know where the master phone was located at WHF?

[Caroline]

That's correct Holly, telephones are wired in such a way that all or any of them can be used regardless of which ones are or aren't plugged in.  However, lifting the handset will not disable the other extensions as long as a dialing tone can be heard.

The master phone in older properties back in 1985 tended to be in the hall or the study and not in a bedroom or an office.  That said and out of interest, does anyone know where the master phone was located at WHF?

It was near the serving hatch and what I meant by being able to disable the other phones by pulling the plug is if the phones used this kind of set-up

[Holly Goodhead]

It was near the serving hatch and what I meant by being able to disable the other phones by pulling the plug is if the phones used this kind of set-up

Was that sort of set up around in 1985?  Openreach certainly wasn't.  I think you will find that sort of set up is used to run a fax and tel on one line with no interruption to one if the other is used.