What makes it impossible for Sheila to have commited the murders?

[guinness]

The difficulty with any 'Sheila done it' theory is that Sheila had no reason to want to do it.  However, the only other person who could have 'done it' and as far as most of the evidence suggests did in fact 'do it', was Jeremy Bamber.  Hope that covers it?

Not really - if she was ill - then she would not have a "reason" to want to do it. Why would she even consider suicide ( which is documented) when she had two beautiful children? Why would she think Freddie Emani was the devil or that she was being stalked by the CIA?  There is no logical reason is there?. Whether guilty or innocent I think you are ignoring that her treatment was not adequate. Even Colin her ex admitted that her treatment was inadequate and he was not happy with the doctor that june was using for Sheila. Whatever the truth I don't think you can use the argument of a lack of motive.

[guinness]

Also out of interest I was reading about an American case where the alleged murderer had no marks on them or any evidence of getting rid of clothes with forensic evidence - the prosecution were allowed to use the argument that the accused was the aggressor in possession of the weapon - so there is no reason why they would be injured at all . Also the fact that there was no forensics in the car or on clothes - well they could have got rid of the clothes before they got in the car - it did not have to be proved - because it was a possibility. Also there was a huge character assassination and relatives persuaded to "embellish" their testimony and oh yes evidence that was with held by the prosecution - ring any bells?

I have always maintained that Jeremy would have HAD to on the night get rid of any clothes shoes and forensic evidence on him or the "bike" ( of which there was No evidence what so ever that it was used ) On that night. Because there was NO WAY he would know that the police would " fall for his story" and they could have been all over him like a rash the very next day . And the evidence was NEVER discovered . All this rubbish about him having a month to clean everything up ( he was under the microscope by his family from day one anyway) to me is rubbish.

[guinness]

To get back to the title of the thread then I can only see one thing that makes it impossible for Sheila to do the murders and that is the silencer - Because she would not have taken it off and put it in the cupboard - other that I have seen contrasting expert views on every thing else - So that to me is the crux of the whole case .

And no I don't have a theory on that except I don't think that something that was handled by several people , removed from the crime scene and of which the descriptions about its appearance wnen it was found vary a lot - is not acceptable.

[APRIL]

Not really - if she was ill - then she would not have a "reason" to want to do it. Why would she even consider suicide ( which is documented) when she had two beautiful children? Why would she think Freddie Emani was the devil or that she was being stalked by the CIA?  There is no logical reason is there?. Whether guilty or innocent I think you are ignoring that her treatment was not adequate. Even Colin her ex admitted that her treatment was inadequate and he was not happy with the doctor that june was using for Sheila. Whatever the truth I don't think you can use the argument of a lack of motive.

Guinness, I couldn't agree more. Sometimes I feel as if people want to forget Sheila and labour Jeremy's guilt in  order to do so. It has even been said that she was only mildly schizophrenic!!! It has been said that her medication was entirely adequate -although given that her consultant hadn't seen her for 18 weeks prior to her death and she wasn't monitored- I don't know how that can  possibly be known. A friend, who is a psychiatrist didn't agree that it was adequate. Personally I believe psychotherapy should have been used along side her medication because medication alone OR the once favoured ECT, have never yet been known to fix dysfunctional relationships or problems bought about by life circumstances.

[david1819]

Guinness, I couldn't agree more. Sometimes I feel as if people want to forget Sheila and labour Jeremy's guilt in  order to do so. It has even been said that she was only mildly schizophrenic!!! It has been said that her medication was entirely adequate -although given that her consultant hadn't seen her for 18 weeks prior to her death and she wasn't monitored- I don't know how that can  possibly be known. A friend, who is a psychiatrist didn't agree that it was adequate. Personally I believe psychotherapy should have been used along side her medication because medication alone OR the once favoured ECT, have never yet been known to fix dysfunctional relationships or problems bought about by life circumstances.

We also must also consider that this was in the mid 1980s. Schizophrenia back then would not be as understood/treated as much as it is today and the medications and methods would be obsolete. Her treatment by todays standards would probably be considered poor by people today but probably got fairly good treatment by the standards of those days. 

[APRIL]

We also must also consider that this was in the mid 1980s. Schizophrenia back then would not be as understood/treated as much as it is today and the medications and methods would be obsolete. Her treatment by todays standards would probably be considered poor by people today but probably got fairly good treatment by the standards of those days.

Does that not mean, if we compare her treatment to some of those released, unsupervised, from psychiatric care today, that she may have been more, rather than less likely to have done it.

[david1819]

Another point that makes me ponder is the amount of gun fire. 5 shots to one child's head and 3 shots to the other twin brothers head, It seems extremely sloppy and poorly executed. Would a rational calculating JB fire that many shots at point blank range when only 1 shot to the head was needed? plus he was allegedly using the silencer at the time so he would have no reason to fire more shots as he didn't want people to wake up/hear ect. Same goes for the parents far to many shots where fired to kill them. If you have a 22. calibre rifle with targets at point blank range you don't need 23 shots to kill 4 people.

People say Shelia did not know anything about guns, I am pretty sure anyone above the age of 5 understands the concept of point and pull the trigger you only need to watch movies to find that out. Also the weapon was a semi automatic you don't need to be taught how to use it as the weapon reloads by itself. If it was manual rifle needing to be re-cocked and re-loaded every shot then the argument that Shelia new nothing about guns would be a valid point but in this case it is not.

[APRIL]

Another point that makes me ponder is the amount of gun fire. 5 shots to one child's head and 3 shots to the other twin brothers head, It seems extremely sloppy and poorly executed. Would a rational calculating JB fire that many shots at point blank range when only 1 shot to the head was needed? plus he was allegedly using the silencer at the time so he would have no reason to fire more shots as he didn't want people to wake up/hear ect. Same goes for the parents far to many shots where fired to kill them. If you have a 22. calibre rifle with targets at point blank range you don't need 23 shots to kill 4 people.

People say Shelia did not know anything about guns, I am pretty sure anyone above the age of 5 understands the concept of point and pull the trigger you only need to watch movies to find that out. Also the weapon was a semi automatic you don't need to be taught how to use it as the weapon reloads by itself. If it was manual rifle needing to be re-cocked and re-loaded every shot then the argument that Shelia new nothing about guns would be a valid point but in this case it is not.

"A rational, calculating Jeremy" wouldn't.............but a devious, cynical Jeremy wanting the deed to look like an amateurish Sheila was responsible, MAY have done.

[Holly Goodhead]

Also out of interest I was reading about an American case where the alleged murderer had no marks on them or any evidence of getting rid of clothes with forensic evidence - the prosecution were allowed to use the argument that the accused was the aggressor in possession of the weapon - so there is no reason why they would be injured at all . Also the fact that there was no forensics in the car or on clothes - well they could have got rid of the clothes before they got in the car - it did not have to be proved - because it was a possibility. Also there was a huge character assassination and relatives persuaded to "embellish" their testimony and oh yes evidence that was with held by the prosecution - ring any bells?

I have always maintained that Jeremy would have HAD to on the night get rid of any clothes shoes and forensic evidence on him or the "bike" ( of which there was No evidence what so ever that it was used ) On that night. Because there was NO WAY he would know that the police would " fall for his story" and they could have been all over him like a rash the very next day . And the evidence was NEVER discovered . All this rubbish about him having a month to clean everything up ( he was under the microscope by his family from day one anyway) to me is rubbish.

Guinness you make a good point above; AE was making meticulous notes from the off with JB rightly or wrongly under suspicion.  I have not read anywhere that JB's normal weekly rubbish at Goldhanger was gone through, although I am sure it was given that AE took the rubbish from WHF:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3171.0;attach=3568

[John]

Whichever way you want to spin it, there is a mountain of evidence which proves Sheila never handled any rifle or fought with Nevill before he died but you just go on believing the opposite if it makes you feel happy.  Bamber did it so get over it!

[Holly Goodhead]

Whichever way you want to spin it, there is a mountain of evidence which proves Sheila never handled any rifle or fought with Nevill before he died but you just go on believing the opposite if it makes you feel happy.  Bamber did it so get over it!

I think your comment above is a little flippant John.

A feature of any case under discussion claiming to be a MoJ has to be by its very nature a minority taking a different view. 

If we were discussing the Stefan Kiszko case prior to his conviction being quashed there would no doubt be a similar minority/majority view.

[puglove]

I think your comment above is a little flippant John.

A feature of any case under discussion claiming to be a MoJ has to be by its very nature a minority taking a different view. 

If we were discussing the Stefan Kiszko case prior to his conviction being quashed there would no doubt be a similar minority/majority view.

IMO, no one has ever explained....


The lack of Ralph's blood on the phone (considering that Bamber was "sure" that Ralph was injured before the supposed call.

The lack of Sheila's blood on her face, in her lungs and in her stomach, considering that she must have been conscious long enough to cope with the shock and pain of the first shot, re-position the gun, and shoot again (fortunately, there were 2 bullets left).

The almost TOTAL lack of prints on the gun.

[guinness]

I have never seen anything that said that Jeremy was sure that Neville was injured before he made the call?

Personally I think Sheila was waving the gun about and ranting and although Neville thought he was having problems calming her down he never thought she would fire the gun.

It was a semi automatic rifle - the second shot could have happened almost immediately after the first

[edited: automatic > semi automatic]

[guinness]

lack of prints on the gun

there was one of sheilas one of jeremys and some other partials - but guess what the police handled the rifle with no gloves on - so you would have thought it would have had their prints on it - wouldn't you?

[Holly Goodhead]

IMO, no one has ever explained....


The lack of Ralph's blood on the phone (considering that Bamber was "sure" that Ralph was injured before the supposed call.

The lack of Sheila's blood on her face, in her lungs and in her stomach, considering that she must have been conscious long enough to cope with the shock and pain of the first shot, re-position the gun, and shoot again (fortunately, there were 2 bullets left).

The almost TOTAL lack of prints on the gun.

I've read posts claiming that JB was "sure" NB was injured before the supposed call but nothing official.  I've had a look back on the WS's of JB and AE and the COA doc and can see nothing to this effect.  Grab your sick bucket and hear it from the horse's mouth:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-jeremy-bamber-files-exclusive-audio-191151 (Clip 1)

CC makes ref to it in his book below.  We don't have his WS here to see what he says in that.

There's no way NB could have made a call after the facial shots received upstairs:

Unable to engage in purposeful conversation only inaudible groans as per Dr V
Heavy bleeding from facial wounds would have resulted in blood on the handset

The lack of SC's blood on her face I have no idea.  I assume if it was something that stood out and/or was considered abnormal in such a situation then Dr Craig, the pathologist and EP would have observed?

Lack of prints overall and the fact that one from each of JB and SC was found is somewhat of a mystery.  I could speculate all night but would really rather tootle off down the local now. 

I wonder how quickly I could clear the local if I started up conversations about JB.  Could be a strategy to get to the bar when its busy  &%+((£