Apartment Key

[Miss Taken Identity]

The door latch is designed not to allow the door to blow shut and lock yourself out without the key.  To close the door from the outside you need the key.  So if Madeleine left by the front door she only had to pull the latch open and leave.  But the door could not be shut behind her.  So if it was shut properly when Kate did her check someone had closed it from the inside after Madeleine had left.  That sequence is pretty dam important.

Indeed it is very important.
BUT  we must accept that Kate is telling the truth and that the keys are a  fantastic get out of jail card if you are into that story.

Keys? what about the whoosing,slaming doors and abductors climbing in and out of windows? Are we assuming Kate is making that bit up?

please note the question mark at the end of that sentence I am asking a question not stating facts...

[ShiningInLuz]

How did you obtain the original key from which the copy was cut ? 

Who had access to the keys in the OC?  Try Panorama, 3 May 2017.  Not rocket science.

[Alice Purjorick]

Who had access to the keys in the OC?  Try Panorama, 3 May 2017.  Not rocket science.

I asked you. Either you can answer or you can't. I take it you can't.

[ShiningInLuz]

I asked you. Either you can answer or you can't. I take it you can't.

R15 of this thread, I already did.

[Robittybob1]

Indeed it is very important.
BUT  we must accept that Kate is telling the truth and that the keys are a  fantastic get out of jail card if you are into that story.

Keys? what about the whoosing,slaming doors and abductors climbing in and out of windows? Are we assuming Kate is making that bit up?

please note the question mark at the end of that sentence I am asking a question not stating facts...

Did Kate see an abductor?  No she didn't but she turned the findings ("the whoosing,slaming doors") that she encountered and constructed that into a hypothesis - an alleged abductor (AA) that used the window for exit.  I can see why she said the window now for if Tannerman was the abductor and he left via the front door there is no way for him to lock that door behind him, and the front door wasn't found open. 

Since Gerry and Jez were outside the steps she must have discounted the AA using the patio door because of Gerry and Jez' presence on the road.
But in actual fact Kate didn't know about Tannerman at that stage, but the logic still applies.  As Kate found all gates and doors closed at her check she must have discounted the AA using the patio door and the gates. 
OK in hindsight  I don't think her diagnosis was perfect.

[Robittybob1]

Did Kate see an abductor?  No she didn't but she turned the findings ("the whoosing,slaming doors") that she encountered and constructed that into a hypothesis - an alleged abductor (AA) that used the window for exit.  I can see why she said the window now for if Tannerman was the abductor and he left via the front door there is no way for him to lock that door behind him, and the front door wasn't found open. 

Since Gerry and Jez were outside the steps she must have discounted the AA using the patio door because of Gerry and Jez' presence on the road.
But in actual fact Kate didn't know about Tannerman at that stage, but the logic still applies.  As Kate found all gates and doors closed at her check she must have discounted the AA using the patio door and the gates. 
OK in hindsight  I don't think her diagnosis was perfect.

I pronounce the H in hypothesis.

[sadie]

Did Kate see an abductor?  No she didn't but she turned the findings ("the whoosing,slaming doors") that she encountered and constructed that into a hypothesis - an alleged abductor (AA) that used the window for exit.  I can see why she said the window now for if Tannerman was the abductor and he left via the front door there is no way for him to lock that door behind him, and the front door wasn't found open.

Since Gerry and Jez were outside the steps she must have discounted the AA using the patio door because of Gerry and Jez' presence on the road.
But in actual fact Kate didn't know about Tannerman at that stage, but the logic still applies.  As Kate found all gates and doors closed at her check she must have discounted the AA using the patio door and the gates. 
OK in hindsight  I don't think her diagnosis was perfect.

I dont agree about not being able to shut the front door.  I have shut doors with a somewhat similar locking mechanism by pulling it sharply closed using the key.   When pulled to, it needed a key to unlock it and get in again.

However, I can see how Kate might have been mistaken about that, being probably non-technical

[sadie]

Did Kate see an abductor?  No she didn't but she turned the findings ("the whoosing,slaming doors") that she encountered and constructed that into a hypothesis - an alleged abductor (AA) that used the window for exit.  I can see why she said the window now for if Tannerman was the abductor and he left via the front door there is no way for him to lock that door behind him, and the front door wasn't found open. 

Since Gerry and Jez were outside the steps she must have discounted the AA using the patio door because of Gerry and Jez' presence on the road.
But in actual fact Kate didn't know about Tannerman at that stage, but the logic still applies.  As Kate found all gates and doors closed at her check she must have discounted the AA using the patio door and the gates. 
OK in hindsight  I don't think her diagnosis was perfect.

Soz, Rob, but Gerry and Jez were further down the road near the corner of the alleyway betwixt the Tapas area and the apartments.  Watch Amarals latest video.  He has the spot more or less spot on (according to Janes account on the Cutting Edge Video and Jezes hand drawn map and account.)

I agree with your logic about having found the gates and doors closed.  Also maybe the fact that the patio area was lit by the street lamp opposite and in full view of the tapas group only 50 metres away may have been on her mind.

Amaral stated that no abductor would have used the patio door entrance with it being overlooked so closely by the family friends.  For once, i agree with him.


I dont think that the patio door entrance was used by either an abductor, or by Madeleine on her own ... and neither was the window.

AIMHO

[Robittybob1]

Soz, Rob, but Gerry and Jez were further down the road near the corner of the alleyway betwixt the Tapas area and the apartments.  Watch Amarals latest video.  He has the spot more or less spot on (according to Janes account on the Cutting Edge Video and Jezes hand drawn map and account.)

I agree with your logic about having found the gates and doors closed.  Also maybe the fact that the patio area was lit by the street lamp opposite and in full view of the tapas group only 50 metres away may have been on her mind.

Amaral stated that no abductor would have used the patio door entrance with it being overlooked so closely by the family friends.  For once, i agree with him.


I dont think that the patio door entrance was used by either an abductor, or by Madeleine on her own ... and neither was the window.

AIMHO

So you told us all the places where she didn't exit, so does that just leave the front door? If the AA had a key to the apartment (how would they get that if they were targeting Madeleine?) then he could lock the front door behind him, but without the key the door had to be left open and that has not been described ass the case.  So what is your explanation for the exit portal and if it was the front door how did it end up closed?

[Innominate]

The door latch is designed not to allow the door to blow shut and lock yourself out without the key.  To close the door from the outside you need the key.  So if Madeleine left by the front door she only had to pull the latch open and leave.  But the door could not be shut behind her.  So if it was shut properly when Kate did her check someone had closed it from the inside after Madeleine had left.  That sequence is pretty dam important.

I thought the front door was a simple spring latch. Was there something special about the front door lock mechanism that prevented it blowing shut?

It is interesting that the key could be easily copied, although that does not prove what happened.

[Robittybob1]

I thought the front door was a simple spring latch. Was there something special about the front door lock mechanism that prevented it blowing shut?

It is interesting that the key could be easily copied, although that does not prove what happened.

There is the rectangular bit that isn't part of the spring latch 

[Miss Taken Identity]

Did Kate see an abductor?  No she didn't but she turned the findings ("the whoosing,slaming doors") that she encountered and constructed that into a hypothesis - an alleged abductor (AA) that used the window for exit.  I can see why she said the window now for if Tannerman was the abductor and he left via the front door there is no way for him to lock that door behind him, and the front door wasn't found open. 

Since Gerry and Jez were outside the steps she must have discounted the AA using the patio door because of Gerry and Jez' presence on the road.
But in actual fact Kate didn't know about Tannerman at that stage, but the logic still applies.  As Kate found all gates and doors closed at her check she must have discounted the AA using the patio door and the gates. 
OK in hindsight  I don't think her diagnosis was perfect.

Initially and for the press releases: Kate absolutely stated her daughter has been 'taken'/ abducted and implied the entry /exit was via the window.  It was  much later when they decided to mention about the doors being unlocked.

[Miss Taken Identity]

It is also interesting as 'negative press' for the McCanns, brought up the whole window theory- it has been trashed by so many people, It has even  been mentioned somewhere, Kate had got to thinking about it and mentioned it may have been a red herring(many years later). I mentioned this as being a Red Herring three days after the event on a few chat pages.

So if Kate thinks it is a red herring how did the abducter enter and exit the apartment... key or not to key? The parents left the doors unlocked. hmmm so woke and wandered is still on the cards then!

[Benice]

Initially and for the press releases: Kate absolutely stated her daughter has been 'taken'/ abducted and implied the entry /exit was via the window.  It was  much later when they decided to mention about the doors being unlocked.

I don't think Kate 'implied' anything -  she stated that she came in to find the bedroom window and shutters wide open and her daughter missing from her bed.    In that first instant - it would have  been abnormal of her - NOT to to immediately think that an intruder had entered via that window and removed Madeleine by the same route.    What else would you expect any normal person to think when first confronted with that scene?   

It could not have been a more normal reaction IMO and it was also completely normal for them to consider other possibilities later on - but certainly not in the severe trauma of the first few hours - or even the first few days.     

AIMHO

 

[G-Unit]

I don't think Kate 'implied' anything -  she stated that she came in to find the bedroom window and shutters wide open and her daughter missing from her bed.    In that first instant - it would have  been abnormal of her - NOT to to immediately think that an intruder had entered via that window and removed Madeleine by the same route.    What else would you expect any normal person to think when first confronted with that scene?   

It could not have been a more normal reaction IMO and it was also completely normal for them to consider other possibilities later on - but certainly not in the severe trauma of the first few hours - or even the first few days.     

AIMHO

Her first thought, like Gerry's was that MM may have gone into their bedroom. I don't know why, because it wasn't something they would have expected her to do;

He glanced into our room to make sure Madeleine hadn’t wandered in there......I went through to our bedroom to see if she’d got into our bed.

If Madeleine ever woke during the night it was always in the small hours, practically never earlier than two or three in the morning.
[Madeleine]