Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on May 04, 2019, 02:16:45 PM
Title: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 04, 2019, 02:16:45 PM
This new revelation coming as it does on the 12th anniversary of Maddie's disappearance reeks to high heaven imo. How many times before have we had this same claim rolled out just as the money is about to run out?
All very convenient or simply coincidence?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 02:19:08 PM
This new revelation coming as it does on the 12th anniversary of Maddie's disappearance reeks to high heaven imo. How many times before have we had this same claim rolled out just as the money is about to run out?
All very convenient or simply coincidence?
The claim is coming from the PJ ...according to the portuguese press...not from SY...do you seriously believe the portuguese would support a false rumour to help the mccanns ....have a think
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 04, 2019, 02:26:24 PM
This new revelation coming as it does on the 12th anniversary of Maddie's disappearance reeks to high heaven imo. How many times before have we had this same claim rolled out just as the money is about to run out?
All very convenient or simply coincidence?
There had to be a 12th anniversary story, surely?
One clue is the actual timing. 01:30.
That's how CdM prepares stories in advance and then releases them automatically very early in the morning.
To be fair to her, Tánia Laranjo seems to have done a fair job in another more current case in Portugal, and she seems to have a source or sources within the PJ.
Time will tell. &^^&*
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: The General on May 04, 2019, 02:32:42 PM
The claim is coming from the PJ ...according to the portuguese press...not from SY...do you seriously believe the portuguese would support a false rumour to help the mccanns ....have a think
So you're happy for the PJ to leak now and those leaks are reliable? The worm has turned.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 02:40:51 PM
So you're happy for the PJ to leak now and those leaks are reliable? The worm has turned.
you need to be a little more accurate with your reading and posting...Ive never had a problem with either police force releasing information...but not when its lies that has a serious effect on the victims of the leaks
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: The General on May 04, 2019, 02:47:31 PM
you need to be a little more accurate with your reading and posting...Ive never had a problem with either police force releasing information...but not when its lies that has a serious effect on the victims of the leaks
I mean, fair enough, all of your posts are pristine. I love how you start or end all posts to sceptics with a bitchy barb.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 02:51:03 PM
This new revelation coming as it does on the 12th anniversary of Maddie's disappearance reeks to high heaven imo. How many times before have we had this same claim rolled out just as the money is about to run out?
All very convenient or simply coincidence?
Yes.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 04, 2019, 03:00:55 PM
All very convenient.
Amaral said it weeks ago to MS.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: The General on May 04, 2019, 03:01:40 PM
Are you serious? It's 4 posts up! Look, let's get back to being good pals.
Good pals....i dont have any enemies...they're all dead
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 04:23:49 PM
I think we've gone Off Topic even quicker than usual ... please stay with the topic of the thread. It is an intelligent topic with plenty of meat on the bones of it surely. Let's stick to it please ... if even just this once ... Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 04, 2019, 04:43:31 PM
To paraphrase Anthony Summers in Looking for Madeleine, if the German being targeted is the man in the mask, as early as 2009 the parent’s private detectives had taken an interest in him. Now, if true, that is a coincidence, arguably the biggest one by far.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 05:32:28 PM
To paraphrase Anthony Summers in Looking for Madeleine, if the German being targeted is the man in the mask, as early as 2009 the parent’s private detectives had taken an interest in him. Now, if true, that is a coincidence, arguably the biggest one by far.
Was the Netflix documentary the first time the man in the mask entered the public arena ... or has he been mentioned any time in the past?
It is possible the person of interest to the McCann detectives in 2009 has already been found and checked out. If he is still a person of interest and still being pursued by the police I think the coincidence lies in the ineptitude of the Amaral investigation to check him out in 2007 to eliminate him before casting around for a parental patsy to pin a crime on.
Think about it carefully. This guy was an offender prior to the McCanns setting foot on the tarmac in Portugal. Apparently he was ignored by the PJ. It took the McCann detectives to consider him of interest in 2009. Somebody somewhere was negligent back in 2007.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 04, 2019, 05:47:26 PM
Much will depend upon whether he is a serious contender or not. It may just be a case of ticking another box. As usual, time will tell.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 04, 2019, 06:06:52 PM
Was the Netflix documentary the first time the man in the mask entered the public arena ... or has he been mentioned any time in the past?
It is possible the person of interest to the McCann detectives in 2009 has already been found and checked out. If he is still a person of interest and still being pursued by the police I think the coincidence lies in the ineptitude of the Amaral investigation to check him out in 2007 to eliminate him before casting around for a parental patsy to pin a crime on.
Think about it carefully. This guy was an offender prior to the McCanns setting foot on the tarmac in Portugal. Apparently he was ignored by the PJ. It took the McCann detectives to consider him of interest in 2009. Somebody somewhere was negligent back in 2007.
The masked man was mentioned in Summers book.
As to the ineptitude of Amaral’s investigation how do we know that the information wasn’t supplied on Rebelo’s watch and even if not Rebelo was the coordinator of the investigation for longer than Amaral so why did he not use his time usefully by checking out the information?
Funny though that the people who have appeared to check masked man out are the parent’s PIs.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 04, 2019, 06:10:51 PM
Important no? Entertaining yes, to see how those in denial about this news and believe it’s been engineered by the McCanns, can spin a logical explanation out of it.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 04, 2019, 06:39:29 PM
Important no? Entertaining yes, to see how those in denial about this news and believe it’s been engineered by the McCanns, can spin a logical explanation out of it.
is anyone in denial? I haven't noticed. Perhaps you would like to name & shame ?{)(**
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 04, 2019, 06:49:20 PM
is anyone in denial? I haven't noticed. Perhaps you would like to name & shame ?{)(**
What’s this thread about then? What does “too convenient” mean? Faithlilly mentioned that she does not believe it’s true and suggested that the McCanns PR agency in Portugal must be behind it. So, I ask again, how did Amaral know about it, if the deniers are right?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: barrier on May 04, 2019, 06:53:00 PM
What’s this thread about then? What does “too convenient” mean? Faithlilly mentioned that she does not believe it’s true and suggested that the McCanns PR agency in Portugal must be behind it. So, I ask again, how did Amaral know about it, if the deniers are right?
How did Amaral know about what,there is nothing offical from the PJ.
Cooey massa davel for you as well.
Detectives investigating the 12-year-old mystery have been given extra resources to look at a “new clue” and “new suspect”, reported Portuguese daily Correio da Manha. There was no immediate official response in Portugal to today’s report, which coincides with the 12th anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance.
How did Amaral know about what,there is nothing offical from the PJ.
Cooey massa davel for you as well.
Detectives investigating the 12-year-old mystery have been given extra resources to look at a “new clue” and “new suspect”, reported Portuguese daily Correio da Manha. There was no immediate official response in Portugal to today’s report, which coincides with the 12th anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance.
Biiiiiig sigh. Amaral claimed weeks ago some German paedo was going to be scapegoated. His inside knowledge has now been backed up by the news reports. Can you explain this sequence of events?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 04, 2019, 07:04:26 PM
Friends in high places ?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 04, 2019, 07:07:59 PM
Was the Netflix documentary the first time the man in the mask entered the public arena ... or has he been mentioned any time in the past?
It is possible the person of interest to the McCann detectives in 2009 has already been found and checked out. If he is still a person of interest and still being pursued by the police I think the coincidence lies in the ineptitude of the Amaral investigation to check him out in 2007 to eliminate him before casting around for a parental patsy to pin a crime on.
Think about it carefully. This guy was an offender prior to the McCanns setting foot on the tarmac in Portugal. Apparently he was ignored by the PJ. It took the McCann detectives to consider him of interest in 2009. Somebody somewhere was negligent back in 2007.
Amaral said he was investigated in 2007. The German serial killer targeted boys. You should think about getting your facts correct.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: barrier on May 04, 2019, 07:11:07 PM
The brit press is in on the silliness now,nothing new in that though.
No, your answer does not make any sense if the story was made up by the McCanns in the first place, as some on this forum appear to believe. Understand?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 04, 2019, 07:13:17 PM
No, your answer does not make any sense if the story was made up by the McCanns in the first place, as some on this forum appear to believe. Understand?
Well, I've never suggested that so my answer is perfectly valid.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 04, 2019, 07:15:56 PM
If you actually read the article it quotes John Whitehead of the respected Rutherford Institute. Perhaps it’s him being silly then, what say you?
There have been many supposed respected commentators over the last 12 yrs all to no avail,come back in 12 months this one will be just another who had something to say for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 04, 2019, 07:23:41 PM
I didn't realise that answers were by invitation only
This one was clearly as I was asking those who believe this news was made up to explain Amaral’s prior knowledge. Jeez sometimes it’s like pulling teeth around here...
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 04, 2019, 07:24:35 PM
There have been many supposed respected commentators over the last 12 yrs all to no avail,come back in 12 months this one will be just another who had something to say for the sake of it.
So safe to ignore as clearly has no idea what he’s on about. Next.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 04, 2019, 07:26:33 PM
This one was clearly as I was asking those who believe this news was made up to explain Amaral’s prior knowledge. Jeez sometimes it’s like pulling teeth around here...
Your post 27, to which I was replying said nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 04, 2019, 07:29:17 PM
Amaral said he was investigated in 2007. The German serial killer targeted boys. You should think about getting your facts correct.
Is your aggressive posting style absolutely necessary? I have not mentioned the German ... and what you believe to be facts may very well not turn out to be so .
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 04, 2019, 09:55:24 PM
The claim is coming from the PJ ...according to the portuguese press...not from SY...do you seriously believe the portuguese would support a false rumour to help the mccanns ....have a think
According to the report it is SY who asked the PJ to pursue this lead.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 04, 2019, 10:00:33 PM
Biiiiiig sigh. Amaral claimed weeks ago some German paedo was going to be scapegoated. His inside knowledge has now been backed up by the news reports. Can you explain this sequence of events?
Somebody's desperate to keep the investigation away from their own door. Another scapegoat?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 04, 2019, 10:07:30 PM
According to the report it is SY who asked the PJ to pursue this lead.
and the PJ have agreed....amaral seems worried...lets see what happens...it could be very interesting and some on here ...including yourself...could be proven very wrong
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 04, 2019, 10:13:05 PM
despite what some have claimed this is confirmation that SY do have an active line of enquiry...and why suddenly are they asking for 12 months funding...not 6
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 04, 2019, 10:18:51 PM
As to the ineptitude of Amaral’s investigation how do we know that the information wasn’t supplied on Rebelo’s watch and even if not Rebelo was the coordinator of the investigation for longer than Amaral so why did he not use his time usefully by checking out the information?
Funny though that the people who have appeared to check masked man out are the parent’s PIs.
Indeed so ... Looking for Madeleine ... Anthony Summers & Robbyn Swan did the research to uncover and put that detail into print.
They also noted that a man had tampered with the sliding door mechanism the day before the attack took place to enable access. In most of the incidents reported to Scotland yard there had been no forced entry and nothing had been stolen.
Does that remind you of anything?
The attacks took place between 2004 and 2010 ... so I think Amaral might have had some input to giving them consideration in relation to Madeleine had he bothered ... then he didn't find Dr Totman either.
I find it hilarious not that it took private detectives to do the job the police should have been doing.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 04, 2019, 10:42:37 PM
Indeed so ... Looking for Madeleine ... Anthony Summers & Robbyn Swan did the research to uncover and put that detail into print.
They also noted that a man had tampered with the sliding door mechanism the day before the attack took place to enable access. In most of the incidents reported to Scotland yard there had been no forced entry and nothing had been stolen.
Does that remind you of anything?
The attacks took place between 2004 and 2010 ... so I think Amaral might have had some input to giving them consideration in relation to Madeleine had he bothered ... then he didn't find Dr Totman either.
I find it hilarious not that it took private detectives to do the job the police should have been doing.
The information was in the files. Summers did little or no ‘research’.
Further it doesn’t matter when the attacks took place, if the information wasn’t past to the PJ when Amaral was coordinator then he would not have seen it....and is it churlish to point out Rebelo didn’t find Totman either. Once again your reasoning is clearly agenda driven.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Brietta on May 04, 2019, 11:57:29 PM
The information was in the files. Summers did little or no ‘research’.
Further it doesn’t matter when the attacks took place, if the information wasn’t past to the PJ when Amaral was coordinator then he would not have seen it....and is it churlish to point out Rebelo didn’t find Totman either. Once again your reasoning is clearly agenda driven.
I've not read that in the files ... please provide a cite.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 05, 2019, 12:50:36 AM
Indeed so ... Looking for Madeleine ... Anthony Summers & Robbyn Swan did the research to uncover and put that detail into print.
They also noted that a man had tampered with the sliding door mechanism the day before the attack took place to enable access. In most of the incidents reported to Scotland yard there had been no forced entry and nothing had been stolen.
Does that remind you of anything?
The attacks took place between 2004 and 2010 ... so I think Amaral might have had some input to giving them consideration in relation to Madeleine had he bothered ... then he didn't find Dr Totman either.
I find it hilarious not that it took private detectives to do the job the police should have been doing.
What???
I find it hilarious that you are promulgating such nonsense.
&%%6
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 01:01:37 AM
I've not read that in the files ... please provide a cite.
Neither have I. It was Summers that claimed it was.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: misty on May 05, 2019, 02:36:32 AM
I wonder why a child predator would choose to wear a surgical mask? Was it to hide some sort of disfigurement of his nose or mouth which would make him more easily identifiable?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: barrier on May 05, 2019, 06:55:03 AM
Shamelessly some seem to prefer the prospect that some paedophile was responsible being more preferential an outcome to an accidental death.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Erngath on May 05, 2019, 07:06:43 AM
Shamelessly some seem to prefer the prospect that some paedophile was responsible being more preferential an outcome to an accidental death.
I’ve long held the theory that sceptics are such sensitive souls that they would prefer that Madeleine had died in an accident and her death covered up by her parents than face the horrible reality of abduction by a stranger and what that likely meant for the poor child. They have therefore refused to countrnance such a theory and it is this which has in large part driven their beliefs formthe last 12 years. This is all IMO, ob.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 05, 2019, 07:36:50 AM
What is rounded about your view that all supporters are salivating at the prospect that Madeleine was murdered by a paedo?
Just goes to show you can't be arsed to read before coming offended I wrote some not all,tis a gift to read
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: barrier on May 05, 2019, 08:21:14 AM
You got to laugh at the shite that come out in the rags.
Prolific pervert and convicted triple-murderer Martin Ney, 48, is believed to be one of the two key 'persons of interest' officers are now focusing on and are set to quiz behind bars.
Then they go onto say.
Maddie's parents Kate and Gerry are yet to be informed of any fresh leads.
Further on quoting Mitchell.
He added: 'Kate and Gerry are not in a position to comment on this, nor would they because it is operational detail and they will not discuss it.
Nope,come back in 12 months and you'll look back and ask,or maybe you wont but may wonder what happened to the supposed german paedo lead.The silly season has started early.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: kizzy on May 05, 2019, 08:47:50 AM
You got to laugh at the shite that come out in the rags.
Prolific pervert and convicted triple-murderer Martin Ney, 48, is believed to be one of the two key 'persons of interest' officers are now focusing on and are set to quiz behind bars.
Then they go onto say.
Maddie's parents Kate and Gerry are yet to be informed of any fresh leads.
Further on quoting Mitchell.
He added: 'Kate and Gerry are not in a position to comment on this, nor would they because it is operational detail and they will not discuss it.
What sort of friend is this also - doesn't she know that is what the mcs said in the first place.
maddie had been abducted by a pedo ring - in the first place.
A close friend of the McCann's said: 'If Ney is the suspect can you imagine how Madeleine's parents will be feeling, knowing that a child killing pervert many be involved in their daughter's kidnap. It is beyond horrendous.'
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 09:23:17 AM
This may be of some little interest - if not already covered. Dates from FEB 2012
Is your aggressive posting style absolutely necessary? I have not mentioned the German ... and what you believe to be facts may very well not turn out to be so .
You couldn't wait to lay into Amaral. You are obsessed by him! Martin Ney the german serial killer as I said but he targeted boys! Seems like Amaral is always one step ahead.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2019, 11:01:34 AM
I am not entirely convinced of this latest suspect, who appears to have favoured boy children.
Nor do I think it was a Paedophile. Far too much risk and planning went into it when it is all too easy to snatch a child from the streets.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 05, 2019, 11:06:16 AM
I am not entirely convinced of this latest suspect, who appears to have favoured boy children.
Nor do I think it was a Paedophile. Far too much risk and planning went into it when it is all too easy to snatch a child from the streets.
My thoughts exactly Eleanor. Taking a young girl in such a busy environment was an unnecessary risk imo when there were so much easier targets out there. SY will have to justify their expenditure in this case so anything which raises their profile is obviously beneficial.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: The General on May 05, 2019, 11:09:03 AM
My thoughts exactly Eleanor. Taking a young girl in such a busy environment was an unnecessary risk imo when there were so much easier targets out there.
Extremely high risk, even for a sophisticated, well organised group. Simply nip out and pick up a street urchin - low risk and the child may not be reported missing for several hours.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 11:21:13 AM
Extremely high risk, even for a sophisticated, well organised group. Simply nip out and pick up a street urchin - low risk and the child may not be reported missing for several hours.
You are overlooking that she was "The Chosen One " 8(0(*
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2019, 11:26:55 AM
You are overlooking that she was "The Chosen One " 8(0(*
What is that supposed to mean?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 05, 2019, 11:28:28 AM
Maddie link to German child killer THIS is the man who has confessed to one child murder and is now facing questioning over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. By JAMES MURRAY PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, May 8, 2011
In Germany he can be referred to only as Martin N because of its laws on naming suspects
The 40-year-old German youth worker, who we can name only as Martin N, is being questioned over at least three child murders and 40 suspected attacks on children across Europe.
He bears a striking resemblance to the photofit of a man seen holding a child in his arms just minutes after Madeleine was snatched from Praia da Luz.
He targeted children on holiday, entering their tents, apartments or villas, armed with a knife or gun and wearing a black balaclava and clothing. He also threatened to kidnap a child unless the parents paid a ransom.
Private detectives working for Kate and Gerry McCann will now try to discover if he was in Portugal when Madeleine vanished from the family’s apartment at the Algarve resort on May 3, 2007.
McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “Our private investigators became aware of this man a month ago and they will be liaising with the German investigators. The investigation is at an early stage.”
German detectives will shortly question the child killer over the disappearance of six-year-old blond German boy Renee Hasse, snatched from the beautiful Amoreira beach near Aljezur on the Algarve in June 1996. The beach is some half an hour’s drive from Luz.
They believe Martin N was in Portugal that summer and are checking his passport and bank accounts to build up a complete picture of his movements over the past 20 years across Europe and South America.
They are trying to establish if the Hamburg-based youth worker, who is said to have used his good communication skills with children to lure his victims, was acting alone or was part of a ring of paedophiles.
He was arrested last month after a major police operation. In Germany he can be referred to only as Martin N because of its laws on naming suspects.
Officers say he has confessed to the murder of nine-year-old Dennis Klein, who vanished during a school field trip at the Lower Saxony coastal town of Cuxhaven on September 5, 2001.
Mushroom pickers discovered the child’s body about 15 miles away two weeks later but the killer’s trail had long gone cold. Earlier this year, a witness who saw a television programme about the case recalled seeing an estate car parked on a forest path at about 4.30am in early September 2001.
A boy who resembled Dennis was in the back seat and a man in the front. The brawny, bespectacled man, who looked to be in his early 30s, matched a description police had received of the suspect from sex abuse victims. He was dressed in black.
In 1992, police said that Martin N had kidnapped and killed 13-year-old Stefan Jahr.
A month earlier he had entered a youth hostel in Bremen, pointed a knife at a boy and ordered him to follow him.
The boy’s scream alerted a teacher who frightened the attacker off.
French police are believed to be about to question Martin about the fate of Jonathan Coulom, 11, who disappeared from a school hostel in St Brevin in the west of France. His body was found six weeks later, handcuffed and in his pyjamas in a pond 30 yards from the hostel.
This could be just the tip of the iceberg. Detectives in Holland want to speak to him about the murder of Nicky Verstappen in August 1998.
The boy disappeared from a tent in Brunssum and his body was found in a plantation of fir trees the next day.
Although so far he is suspected of killing or attacking young boys, clinical psychologist Ron Bracey stressed that gender is not so important to paedophiles, making it quite possible that he could target a girl like Madeleine.
He said: “With paedophiles the gender of the child isn’t really that relevant. It’s quite possible he could have killed girls and boys.”
The thought that Madeleine may have been abducted by a paedophile, and is possibly still being abused, is Kate McCann’s worst fear, according to a newspaper interview yesterday. She was speaking in advance of her book, simply called Madeleine, which is published on Thursday.
Meanwhile a profile of Martin N began to emerge yesterday. German police interviewed him in 2004 after two boys complained they had been sexually attacked.
He was given a small fine but appeared before the courts again in 2006 when a man said Martin N had demanded 20,000 euros or he would tell police the man had child pornography on his computer. Two years later Martin N was asked to supply a DNA sample for police but failed to keep the appointment.
It is believed that between 2000 and 2008 he worked for an evangelical church on a project for the homeless.
His mother is distraught about the police investigation and does not accept the boy she raised has grown into a monster. She describes him as “normal, a little timid and very attentive”.
She insists he never showed signs similar to “the cruelty necessary to commit these horrible crimes”, although a German magazine claims he was scarred by his father leaving the family when he was young.
At 21, the suspect finished a teacher training course and started to travel. Police know he visited Ecuador in 1993, Peru in 1995 and Portugal the following year. He has also made repeated trips to Holland and Denmark.
Police psychologist Alexander Horn said: “During his studies to be a school teacher he was a solid student, although not over-brilliant. No professor observed any behaviour that brought special attention, no evidence from work colleagues that recalled him as a violent person. In fact, quite the reverse.
“Everyone who has been his neighbour or has worked with him describes him as reliable, amiable, friendly and very intelligent. He was always disposed to help with a smile on his lips.”
There are suggestions, however, that in 1987 he sent letters threatening extortion to neighbouring families. One is alleged to have warned: “If you don’t follow our instructions, your children will die.”
His penalty involved doing social work for eight weeks. Five years later he went on to kill his first victim.
German police spokesman Anke Rieken said: “Every place that he has been, every person with whom he has been in contact could lead us to more victims.”
Last week the church in Praia da Luz was filled with supporters and wellwishers on the fourth anniversary of
Madeleine’s disappearance. Although the McCanns were not present, a message from Kate was read out while prayers and readings were given in English and Portuguese.
Father Haynes Hubbard, of St Vincent’s Church of the Algarve, said: “There were far more people at the service than we expected, exceeding all our expectations.
“This was not a memorial service, instead we were challenging those who attended to continue in their search for Madeleine.”
Susan Hubbard, his wife, who is a friend of Kate’s, said: “Father Haynes was unfortunately ill at home in bed so he could not lead the service but it was not something that was really led anyway.
“We had readings in both English and Portuguese and I read out a message that Kate McCann had sent over for us.
There were more people than ever in the church for the vigil. It looked to be full, with a mixture of Portuguese and foreign residents and visitors who all wanted to come and say a prayer.
“We prayed for the safe return of Madeleine but also for the return of other missing children including Rui Pedro and others. Although we may not know all of their names, we pray for their safe return too.
“We believe that Praia da Luz has been given a mission to be the place that represents all missing children and we will continue to pray for them all.”
After the half-hour service candles were lit outside the church as a symbol of hope and light in the search for Madeleine.
Additional reporting: Allan Hall in Berlin and Bill Bond in Madrid
My thoughts exactly Eleanor. Taking a young girl in such a busy environment was an unnecessary risk imo when there were so much easier targets out there. SY will have to justify their expenditure in this case so anything which raises their profile is obviously beneficial.
Thank You, Angelo. I ducked my head below the parapet because I expected a bollicking. But I'm not agreeing with something just because it might be possible.
And I still don't believe that Totman was the man that Jane Tanner saw. Totman? Really? God give me strength.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2019, 11:37:19 AM
Maddie link to German child killer THIS is the man who has confessed to one child murder and is now facing questioning over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. By JAMES MURRAY PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, May 8, 2011
In Germany he can be referred to only as Martin N because of its laws on naming suspects
The 40-year-old German youth worker, who we can name only as Martin N, is being questioned over at least three child murders and 40 suspected attacks on children across Europe.
He bears a striking resemblance to the photofit of a man seen holding a child in his arms just minutes after Madeleine was snatched from Praia da Luz.
He targeted children on holiday, entering their tents, apartments or villas, armed with a knife or gun and wearing a black balaclava and clothing. He also threatened to kidnap a child unless the parents paid a ransom.
Private detectives working for Kate and Gerry McCann will now try to discover if he was in Portugal when Madeleine vanished from the family’s apartment at the Algarve resort on May 3, 2007.
McCann spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “Our private investigators became aware of this man a month ago and they will be liaising with the German investigators. The investigation is at an early stage.”
German detectives will shortly question the child killer over the disappearance of six-year-old blond German boy Renee Hasse, snatched from the beautiful Amoreira beach near Aljezur on the Algarve in June 1996. The beach is some half an hour’s drive from Luz.
They believe Martin N was in Portugal that summer and are checking his passport and bank accounts to build up a complete picture of his movements over the past 20 years across Europe and South America.
They are trying to establish if the Hamburg-based youth worker, who is said to have used his good communication skills with children to lure his victims, was acting alone or was part of a ring of paedophiles.
He was arrested last month after a major police operation. In Germany he can be referred to only as Martin N because of its laws on naming suspects.
Officers say he has confessed to the murder of nine-year-old Dennis Klein, who vanished during a school field trip at the Lower Saxony coastal town of Cuxhaven on September 5, 2001.
Mushroom pickers discovered the child’s body about 15 miles away two weeks later but the killer’s trail had long gone cold. Earlier this year, a witness who saw a television programme about the case recalled seeing an estate car parked on a forest path at about 4.30am in early September 2001.
A boy who resembled Dennis was in the back seat and a man in the front. The brawny, bespectacled man, who looked to be in his early 30s, matched a description police had received of the suspect from sex abuse victims. He was dressed in black.
In 1992, police said that Martin N had kidnapped and killed 13-year-old Stefan Jahr.
A month earlier he had entered a youth hostel in Bremen, pointed a knife at a boy and ordered him to follow him.
The boy’s scream alerted a teacher who frightened the attacker off.
French police are believed to be about to question Martin about the fate of Jonathan Coulom, 11, who disappeared from a school hostel in St Brevin in the west of France. His body was found six weeks later, handcuffed and in his pyjamas in a pond 30 yards from the hostel.
This could be just the tip of the iceberg. Detectives in Holland want to speak to him about the murder of Nicky Verstappen in August 1998.
The boy disappeared from a tent in Brunssum and his body was found in a plantation of fir trees the next day.
Although so far he is suspected of killing or attacking young boys, clinical psychologist Ron Bracey stressed that gender is not so important to paedophiles, making it quite possible that he could target a girl like Madeleine.
He said: “With paedophiles the gender of the child isn’t really that relevant. It’s quite possible he could have killed girls and boys.”
The thought that Madeleine may have been abducted by a paedophile, and is possibly still being abused, is Kate McCann’s worst fear, according to a newspaper interview yesterday. She was speaking in advance of her book, simply called Madeleine, which is published on Thursday.
Meanwhile a profile of Martin N began to emerge yesterday. German police interviewed him in 2004 after two boys complained they had been sexually attacked.
He was given a small fine but appeared before the courts again in 2006 when a man said Martin N had demanded 20,000 euros or he would tell police the man had child pornography on his computer. Two years later Martin N was asked to supply a DNA sample for police but failed to keep the appointment.
It is believed that between 2000 and 2008 he worked for an evangelical church on a project for the homeless.
His mother is distraught about the police investigation and does not accept the boy she raised has grown into a monster. She describes him as “normal, a little timid and very attentive”.
She insists he never showed signs similar to “the cruelty necessary to commit these horrible crimes”, although a German magazine claims he was scarred by his father leaving the family when he was young.
At 21, the suspect finished a teacher training course and started to travel. Police know he visited Ecuador in 1993, Peru in 1995 and Portugal the following year. He has also made repeated trips to Holland and Denmark.
Police psychologist Alexander Horn said: “During his studies to be a school teacher he was a solid student, although not over-brilliant. No professor observed any behaviour that brought special attention, no evidence from work colleagues that recalled him as a violent person. In fact, quite the reverse.
“Everyone who has been his neighbour or has worked with him describes him as reliable, amiable, friendly and very intelligent. He was always disposed to help with a smile on his lips.”
There are suggestions, however, that in 1987 he sent letters threatening extortion to neighbouring families. One is alleged to have warned: “If you don’t follow our instructions, your children will die.”
His penalty involved doing social work for eight weeks. Five years later he went on to kill his first victim.
German police spokesman Anke Rieken said: “Every place that he has been, every person with whom he has been in contact could lead us to more victims.”
Last week the church in Praia da Luz was filled with supporters and wellwishers on the fourth anniversary of
Madeleine’s disappearance. Although the McCanns were not present, a message from Kate was read out while prayers and readings were given in English and Portuguese.
Father Haynes Hubbard, of St Vincent’s Church of the Algarve, said: “There were far more people at the service than we expected, exceeding all our expectations.
“This was not a memorial service, instead we were challenging those who attended to continue in their search for Madeleine.”
Susan Hubbard, his wife, who is a friend of Kate’s, said: “Father Haynes was unfortunately ill at home in bed so he could not lead the service but it was not something that was really led anyway.
“We had readings in both English and Portuguese and I read out a message that Kate McCann had sent over for us.
There were more people than ever in the church for the vigil. It looked to be full, with a mixture of Portuguese and foreign residents and visitors who all wanted to come and say a prayer.
“We prayed for the safe return of Madeleine but also for the return of other missing children including Rui Pedro and others. Although we may not know all of their names, we pray for their safe return too.
“We believe that Praia da Luz has been given a mission to be the place that represents all missing children and we will continue to pray for them all.”
After the half-hour service candles were lit outside the church as a symbol of hope and light in the search for Madeleine.
Additional reporting: Allan Hall in Berlin and Bill Bond in Madrid
Thank You, Angelo. I ducked my head below the parapet because I expected a bollicking. But I'm not agreeing with something just because it might be possible.
And I still don't believe that Totman was the man that Jane Tanner saw. Totman? Really? God give me strength.
IMO that wasn't Maddy being carried across the top of the street.
Tanner is an unreliable witness. She kept changing her opinion. How can he change from Murat to George Harrison with a moustache? Yes the mind boggles!
Her first statement was the most truthful IMO
Personal description:
( * ) Dark skinned individual, male sex, aged between 35-40, slim physical appearance, about 1.70m tall. Very dark, thick hair, longer at the back (she could only see him from behind). He was wearing linen type cloth trousers, beige to golden in colour, a "duffy" sic type jacket (but not that thick). His shoes were dark in colour, classic type. He had a hurried walk. He was carrying a child, who was lying on both his arms, in front of his chest. By the way he was dressed, he gave her the impression that he was not a tourist, because he was very "warmly dressed".
(**) About the child whom appeared to be sleeping, she only saw her legs. The child appeared to be older than a baby. She was barefoot and was wearing what appeared to be cotton pyjamas of a light colour (possibly white or light pink). She is not certain, but has the impression a design on the pyjamas, possibly a floral pattern, but she is not certain.
Totman is definitely SLIM.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 11:39:27 AM
Thank You, Angelo. I ducked my head below the parapet because I expected a bollicking. But I'm not agreeing with something just because it might be possible.
And I still don't believe that Totman was the man that Jane Tanner saw. Totman? Really? God give me strength.
Bollicking from who? for whats its worth I don't think it was Totman either,Redwood never mentioned him by name.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Erngath on May 05, 2019, 11:47:35 AM
You really do believe that some supporters would rather that Madeleine was being abused and sexually assaulted by a ghastly chld murderer and paedophile than dying in an accident . You believe supporters would prefer that because it wouldn't involve her parents in her accidental death and subsequent cover up. I will repeat again, what a disgusting accusation!
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 11:49:47 AM
From not being able to comment for operational reasons to chatting twenty to the dozen in the Mail Clarence is nothing if not flexible.
And still no evidence that anyone except the parent’s detectives have ever linked Nye to Madeleine’s disappearance.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
You really do believe that some supporters would rather that Madeleine was being abused and sexually assaulted by a ghastly chld murderer and paedophile than dying in an accident . You believe supporters would prefer that because it wouldn't involve her parents in her accidental death and subsequent cover up. I will repeat again, what a disgusting accusation!
It is a disgusting accusation however that doesn’t make it untrue.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Erngath on May 05, 2019, 11:53:30 AM
Perhaps as it has been allowed to remain, I will have indeed have to live with it. But as you and Barrier seem to be the only ones endorsing such a disgusting accusation then I can very easily ignore you both!
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2019, 12:07:40 PM
Perhaps as it has been allowed to remain, I will have indeed have to live with it. But as you and Barrier seem to be the only ones endorsing such a disgusting accusation then I can very easily ignore you both!
Gutted.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2019, 12:10:51 PM
There was a time when some Sceptics wanted Paedophiles to be responsible so that The McCanns would suffer more.
Thoughts change with the wind it seems.
I also remember it said that the McCann's having found Madeleine dead, rather than admit she had died from a fall in the apartment whist they were having dinner, they chose to fake an abduction instead. So, rather than admit she'd had a fall they faked an abduction which caused much more media attention to them. What ridiculous accusations there are out there.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Lace on May 05, 2019, 12:15:28 PM
Perhaps as it has been allowed to remain, I will have indeed have to live with it. But as you and Barrier seem to be the only ones endorsing such a disgusting accusation then I can very easily ignore you both!
Of course that is your prerogative.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2019, 12:26:18 PM
When was the last time supporters took any time away from defending the parents to even mention Madeleine, except possibly in the abstract ?
As this forum is for debate, and usually it is about what the McCann's did or didn't do, there isn't much opportunity to mention Madeleine apart from in circumstances when we refer to her as the McCann's daughter. Can you point to a post where you have mentioned her apart from doing the same?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 12:45:41 PM
As this forum is for debate, and usually it is about what the McCann's did or didn't do, there isn't much opportunity to mention Madeleine apart from in circumstances when we refer to her as the McCann's daughter. Can you point to a post where you have mentioned her apart from doing the same?
‘The McCann’s daughter’ ? Poor Madeleine.....a bit player in her own tragedy.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Lace on May 05, 2019, 12:52:31 PM
As this forum is for debate, and usually it is about what the McCann's did or didn't do, there isn't much opportunity to mention Madeleine apart from in circumstances when we refer to her as the McCann's daughter. Can you point to a post where you have mentioned her apart from doing the same?
Post # 105 "the girl's sixteenth birthday" Not even worth mentioning Madeleine's name. Just "the girl"!
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: barrier on May 05, 2019, 01:01:15 PM
Post # 105 "the girl's sixteenth birthday" Not even worth mentioning Madeleine's name. Just "the girl"!
Oh you little devil,I thougt you were putting me on ignor,peeping at my post's now.
Any how,I take it once incarcerated there is no fear of any one being sued for libel,seeing as the brit press is stiching the German dude up like a kipper.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 05, 2019, 01:09:15 PM
Oh you little devil,I thougt you were putting me on ignor,peeping at my post's now.
Any how,I take it once incarcerated there is no fear of any one being sued for libel,seeing as the brit press is stiching the German dude up like a kipper.
Just for clarification I didn't say I was "putting " you on ignore. I will read your posts just to see if you accuse me again of salivating at the thought of paedophiles abusing Madeleine rather than have her parents implicit in her disappearance.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2019, 01:34:06 PM
Okay. Cut the discussion on what Paedophiles might do. I am simply not having it.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 01:35:19 PM
Just for clarification I didn't say I was "putting " you on ignore. I will read your posts just to see if you accuse me again of salivating at the thought of paedophiles abusing Madeleine rather than have her parents implicit in her disappearance.
So your ‘putting’ us on ignore while, simultaneously, reading our posts.
Glad to see all that education wasn’t wasted.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 05, 2019, 01:45:09 PM
Anyone want to wager that nothing will come out of this latest sensation? Brunty gets an all expenses paid freebie to PdL care of Sky News. Well, I suppose he's got some arse licking to do to make up for his last effort when he claimed live on air that Maddie's DNA had been found in the McCann's hire car @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 05, 2019, 01:46:30 PM
Oh you little devil,I thougt you were putting me on ignor,peeping at my post's now.
Any how,I take it once incarcerated there is no fear of any one being sued for libel,seeing as the brit press is stiching the German dude up like a kipper.
I think it is disgraceful how this innocent German man is having his good name tarnished by the British press.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Erngath on May 05, 2019, 01:52:07 PM
So your ‘putting’ us on ignore while, simultaneously, reading our posts.
Glad to see all that education wasn’t wasted.
I said I could easily put you on ignore. As I said to Barrier I did not say I would put you on ignore! I never use the ignore facility but often choose to ignore many of your posts.
You are correct all that education wasn't wasted.
It granted me the satisfaction of a very lengthy and worthwhile career in a profession which I loved.
Not only a worthwhile career but the holidays and working hours were great. That made rearing a family and having a career easily done! The salary was fairly good too. So all that education definitely not wasted!.
PS. Good pension too. 8)-)))
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2019, 02:12:35 PM
Anyone want to wager that nothing will come out of this latest sensation? Brunty gets an all expenses paid freebie to PdL care of Sky News. Well, I suppose he's got some arse licking to do to make up for his last effort when he claimed live on air that Maddie's DNA had been found in the McCann's hire car @)(++(*
disgusting post from a so called moderator
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 05, 2019, 02:18:41 PM
Anyone want to wager that nothing will come out of this latest sensation? Brunty gets an all expenses paid freebie to PdL care of Sky News. Well, I suppose he's got some arse licking to do to make up for his last effort when he claimed live on air that Maddie's DNA had been found in the McCann's hire car @)(++(*
disgusting post from a so called moderator
Is there some part of my post which is untrue??
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2019, 02:21:42 PM
Brunt never claimed Maddies dna had been found in the hire car....he said "its been reported that...".....how come you still havent got that right after all this time
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 02:22:51 PM
I said I could easily put you on ignore. As I said to Barrier I did not say I would put you on ignore! I never use the ignore facility but often choose to ignore many of your posts.
You are correct all that education wasn't wasted.
It granted me the satisfaction of a very lengthy and worthwhile career in a profession which I loved.
Not only a worthwhile career but the holidays and working hours were great. That made rearing a family and having a career easily done! The salary was fairly good too. So all that education definitely not wasted!.
I did answer this by saying the Scottish education system was richer because of your input but a moderator seems to have found my post offensive and removed it.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 05, 2019, 02:42:03 PM
Brunt never claimed Maddies dna had been found in the hire car....he said "its been reported that...".....how come you still havent got that right after all this time
He said it regardless of where he got the information so my post was true.
And a word of warning...bait me any more and I will apply max points.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2019, 02:55:42 PM
He said it regardless of where he got the information so my post was true.
And a word of warning...bait me any more and I will apply max points.
Brunt did not say Maddie's DNA had been found in the car... You are mistakes as you are Re my post ...if you don't understand the truth that's your problem... Apply as many points as you want.. I don't really care
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 05, 2019, 03:07:58 PM
Brunt did not say Maddie's DNA had been found in the car... You are mistakes as you are Re my post ...if you don't understand the truth that's your problem... Apply as many points as you want.. I don't really care
At 1.06 "In the car the scientists have also found another, a second full match..."
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 05, 2019, 03:44:10 PM
We are told that police are ’closing in’ on convicted paedophile Martin Ney. Ney is in prison at the moment for life. How hard is it to close in on someone already incarcerated?
Ney targeted exclusively boys from the age of 8 so little girls of 3 just does not fit his victim’s profile.
Further from what I can see he didn’t drug the children he molested or murdered.
He was said to wear a mask and one of the child molestation suspects in the Portuguese files allegedly wore a mask but there is nothing so far that ties even this to Madeleine’s disappearance.
There is nothing to say Ney was suspected by anyone but the McCann’s PIs.
For me unless DNA has been found to tie Ney with apartment 5a, which after all this time I very much doubt, there is nothing to tie Ney to Madeleine’s disappearance that wasn’t known for the last 8 years.
This is smoke and mirrors and the only question is why now ?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 05, 2019, 03:54:44 PM
Child killer vows: I didn’t take Madeleine McCann A PREDATORY German paedophile who will be sentenced tomorrow for abducting and murdering three boys has denied he is behind other child crimes, including the abduction of Madeleine McCann. By JAMES MURRAY PUBLISHED: 00:00, Sun, Feb 26, 2012
Today we can reveal that Scotland Yard has been in contact with German detectives questioning Martin Ney, 41.
It follows our disclosure last May that Ney looks very like the photofit of a man seen acting suspiciously hours before Madeleine vanished from a holiday apartment in Portugal in May 2007.
The photofit was drawn up by a woman who saw a man leaving the rear of the next-door apartment. She said he very “quietly” closed the gate and looked around nervously to see if he was being watched. The photofit was published in Kate McCann’s best-selling book, Madeleine.
When we asked the Yard why officers were interested in Ney, it issued a terse statement saying: “We are not prepared to discuss it.”
Ney, who faces life in prison, claims he is not guilty of a series of other child murders across Europe. According to the Spanish newspaper El Mundo, he would be familiar with the Algarve coastline having travelled to Portugal in the mid-Nineties.
British detectives are believed to be interested in Ney’s communications in internet chat rooms in which he used the nickname Gerd X. Although Ney claims his last child murder was in 2002, they found a posting by him in March last year which said: “Gerd X moves on to the next boy.”
In a 2002 posting he bragged: “I bought a camouflage suit to jump out of the bushes in children’s playgrounds if a beautiful boy goes past.”
The softly spoken youth worker was free to kill for 20 years. His first victim was Stefan Jahrd, 13, in 1992. Three years later he murdered Dennis Rostel, eight. Six years after that he snatched nine-year-old Dennis Kleinfrom.
Kai Thomas Breas, spokesman for the German prosecutors, told the Sunday Express: “He has said he hasn’t killed in Portugal.
“German police have been in contact with Scotland Yard. We think he had a sexual interest only in boys.”
We are told that police are ’closing in’ on convicted paedophile Martin Ney. Ney is in prison at the moment for life. How hard is it to close in on someone already incarcerated?
Ney targeted exclusively boys from the age of 8 so little girls of 3 just does not fit his victim’s profile.
Further what I can see he didn’t drug the children he molests or murders.
He was said to wear a mask and one of the child molestation suspects in they Portuguese files wore allegedly wore a mask but there is nothing so far that ties even this to Madeleine’s disappearance.
There is nothing to say Ney was suspected by anyone but the McCann’s PIs.
For me unless DNA has been found to tie Ney with apartment 5a, which after all this time I very much doubt, there is nothing to tie Ney to Madeleine’s disappearance that wasn’t known for the last 8 years.
This is smoke and mirrors and the only question is why now ?
On the basis of Ney's conviction and the length of jail term, Portugal would permit cross-checking with unidentified DNA from 5A.
Good point, Faithlilly.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Eleanor on May 05, 2019, 04:00:01 PM
Extremely high risk, even for a sophisticated, well organised group. Simply nip out and pick up a street urchin - low risk and the child may not be reported missing for several hours.
Where might one find these street urchins in Portugal? I was under the impression that the Portuguese never left their kids unattended for one second.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 05, 2019, 05:22:18 PM
We are told that police are ’closing in’ on convicted paedophile Martin Ney. Ney is in prison at the moment for life. How hard is it to close in on someone already incarcerated?
Ney targeted exclusively boys from the age of 8 so little girls of 3 just does not fit his victim’s profile.
Further from what I can see he didn’t drug the children he molested or murdered.
He was said to wear a mask and one of the child molestation suspects in the Portuguese files allegedly wore a mask but there is nothing so far that ties even this to Madeleine’s disappearance.
There is nothing to say Ney was suspected by anyone but the McCann’s PIs.
For me unless DNA has been found to tie Ney with apartment 5a, which after all this time I very much doubt, there is nothing to tie Ney to Madeleine’s disappearance that wasn’t known for the last 8 years.
This is smoke and mirrors and the only question is why now ?
Why is Amaral spreading this alleged rumour then?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 05, 2019, 05:28:57 PM
I do, unless you mean dumped in a bin alive. Nothing is worse than death, IMO.
Many torture victims would ofcourse have a differing view of that. and some Cancer sufferers in late stages pray for death... I don't suppose you were speaking on Maddies behalf?
The answer to the thread question imo is:yes, very convenient. And unconvincing.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 05, 2019, 06:50:41 PM
Many torture victims would ofcourse have a differing view of that. and some Cancer sufferers in late stages pray for death... I don't suppose you were speaking on Maddies behalf?
The answer to the thread question imo is:yes, very convenient. And unconvincing.
Conenient for whom?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 05, 2019, 06:51:57 PM
Many torture victims would ofcourse have a differing view of that. and some Cancer sufferers in late stages pray for death... I don't suppose you were speaking on Maddies behalf?
The answer to the thread question imo is:yes, very convenient. And unconvincing.
I was speaking on my behalf actually, hence the use of the term IMO. Do you know what it means?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2019, 06:53:25 PM
Many torture victims would ofcourse have a differing view of that. and some Cancer sufferers in late stages pray for death... I don't suppose you were speaking on Maddies behalf?
The answer to the thread question imo is:yes, very convenient. And unconvincing.
cancer sufferers in the late stages know death is coming...would acancer victim who knows the condition is curable pray for death...no...they pray for life..
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on May 05, 2019, 06:55:06 PM
cancer sufferers in the late stages know death is coming...would acancer victim who knows the condition is curable pray for death...no...they pray for life..
You really do need to read what people are typing. I never said people who had cancer and knew it was curable prayed for death.
so @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(*
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 05, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
And there was some unidentified DNA, was there not?
I think there were hairs found that couldn't be matched. Not sure about DNA. Carol Tranmer's file seems important.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CAROL_TRANMER.htm It appears Tranmer made an E-fit of the person she saw. Who was this to the PJ or the UK police at PdL?
Is the E-fit that looks like Martin Ney in the PJ file? (Marked as number "4")???
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Lace on May 06, 2019, 08:12:57 AM
Many torture victims would ofcourse have a differing view of that. and some Cancer sufferers in late stages pray for death... I don't suppose you were speaking on Maddies behalf?
The answer to the thread question imo is:yes, very convenient. And unconvincing.
So, what would you do if you were an undercover detective and you knew a paedophile gang were keeping Madeleine captive, not rescue her as death would be better?
Maybe the police should stop bothering to find the children they see on the dark web, after all they would be better off dead?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: kizzy on May 06, 2019, 09:28:53 AM
So, what would you do if you were an undercover detective and you knew a paedophile gang were keeping Madeleine captive, not rescue her as death would be better?
Maybe the police should stop bothering to find the children they see on the dark web, after all they would be better off dead?
So, what would you do if you were an undercover detective and you knew a paedophile gang were keeping Madeleine captive, not rescue her as death would be better?
what would you do if you were an undercover detective and you knew a pedophile gang were keeping Madeleine captive,
They don't know that though do they L - it's only YOU assuming they do again and believing everything you read.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Lace on May 06, 2019, 09:52:10 AM
So, what would you do if you were an undercover detective and you knew a paedophile gang were keeping Madeleine captive, not rescue her as death would be better?
what would you do if you were an undercover detective and you knew a pedophile gang were keeping Madeleine captive,
They don't know that though do they L - it's only YOU assuming they do again and believing everything you read.
Have you been reading the posts leading up to the one of mine? Or have you just jumped in without reading them?
I was answering this post - Do you think that being dumped in a bin would be worse that being a plaything for paedophiles, possibly for years on end ?
Another poster asking me if being dead and dumped in a bin was better than been held by paedophiles.
I don't believe everything I read, I come to my own conclusions.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 06, 2019, 09:56:20 AM
(Many) sceptics seem to believe that child abuse is worse than murder. A child can recover from abuse. It cannot recover from murder.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Lace on May 06, 2019, 09:58:20 AM
The fear they are going to be murdered, that fear is greater than anything else they endure. If they read what abuse victims have had to say.
The argument been used by (many / some) sceptics is that child sex abuse victims would be better off dead, which really is a vile argument when you think about it.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 06, 2019, 10:24:24 AM
The argument been used by (many / some) sceptics is that child sex abuse victims would be better off dead, which really is a vile argument when you think about it.
Is it really? Who are you to decide for the world in general that something is vile?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Lace on May 06, 2019, 10:31:58 AM
LOL, of course you can’t. I thought as much. For the record, if I thought my child had been abducted by a paedophile I’d prefer she came home alive rather than in a body bag, mad though that may seem to you.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 10:54:57 AM
LOL, of course you can’t. I thought as much. For the record, if I thought my child had been abducted by a paedophile I’d prefer she came home alive rather than in a body bag, mad though that may seem to you.
That's fine. I've not said you are mad, but I do object to your moralistic assumption that anyone who does agree with you must be bad.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: The General on May 06, 2019, 11:11:17 AM
Have you been reading the posts leading up to the one of mine? Or have you just jumped in without reading them?
I was answering this post - Do you think that being dumped in a bin would be worse that being a plaything for paedophiles, possibly for years on end ?
Another poster asking me if being dead and dumped in a bin was better than been held by paedophiles.
I don't believe everything I read, I come to my own conclusions.
Whatever - but I was answering your post of what you assumed the detectives know
When you don't know what they know or don't know.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 01:28:16 PM
According to the Daily Wail it was Espresso, the Portuguese news service with long established links to the parents, who first floated the identity of the new suspect.
‘Shortly after Correio revealed a new suspect was being probed, Portuguese news website Expresso said the focus of the PJ investigation was an alleged foreign paedophile.
The website said he was known to Portuguese police, was in Portugal when Madeleine disappeared, and had been investigated on suspicion of involvement in paedophile cases.’
From the Independent
‘Information from Scotland Yard about a foreign paedophile has reportedly prompted police in in Portugal to expand the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Officials have reportedly identified a man who was in Portugal in May 2007 when the toddler disappeared from her hotel room in the Praia da Luz resort on the Algarve.
The suspect had previously come under Portuguese police scrutiny, but the authorities are now pursuing “active lines of investigation” after fresh information from the UK, Portugal’s Expresso newspaper.
The number of detectives in the case has been increased, the country’s CMTV network claimed, adding that they were still looking at more than one suspect.’
‘Looking at more than one suspect ‘ a more neutral network claims.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 06, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
According to the Daily Wail it was Espresso, the Portuguese news service with long established links to the parents, who first floated the identity of the new suspect.
‘Shortly after Correio revealed a new suspect was being probed, Portuguese news website Expresso said the focus of the PJ investigation was an alleged foreign paedophile.
The website said he was known to Portuguese police, was in Portugal when Madeleine disappeared, and had been investigated on suspicion of involvement in paedophile cases.’
From the Independent
‘Information from Scotland Yard about a foreign paedophile has reportedly prompted police in in Portugal to expand the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
Officials have reportedly identified a man who was in Portugal in May 2007 when the toddler disappeared from her hotel room in the Praia da Luz resort on the Algarve.
The suspect had previously come under Portuguese police scrutiny, but the authorities are now pursuing “active lines of investigation” after fresh information from the UK, Portugal’s Expresso newspaper.
The number of detectives in the case has been increased, the country’s CMTV network claimed, adding that they were still looking at more than one suspect.’
‘Looking at more than one suspect ‘ a more neutral network claims.
You still can’t get over the fact that the parents are not in the frame can you? So all you’ve got now is that the McCanns surreptitiously suggested it was Ney, turns out it’s some other German paedo so where does that leave you, eh?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Lace on May 06, 2019, 02:00:40 PM
You still can’t get over the fact that the parents are not in the frame can you? So all you’ve got now is that the McCanns surreptitiously suggested it was Ney, turns out it’s some other German paedo so where does that leave you, eh?
Maybe you should rewrite that bearing in mind the illegal activities which went on post disappearance involving the Kennedys, Correia and Metodo 3.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 02:20:32 PM
Maybe you should rewrite that bearing in mind the illegal activities which went on post disappearance involving the Kennedys, Correia and Metodo 3.
Im just cooking a big batch of Humble Pie and wandered if I should put you down for some
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 06, 2019, 02:25:15 PM
Amaral wasn't far wrong when he revealed that a German paedophile was to be investigated in the Maddie case. A better patsy they won't find as this guy is jailed for life and won't be going anywhere anytime soon. And all this some 12 years on even though he was already investigated and cleared by the original investigation.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Angelo222 on May 06, 2019, 02:27:50 PM
Amaral wasn't far wrong when he revealed that a German paedophile was to be investigated in the Maddie case. A better patsy they won't find as this guy is jailed for life and won't be going anywhere anytime soon. And all this some 12 years on even though he was already investigated and cleared by the original investigation.
So were The McCanns. But you don't believe that.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 02:29:11 PM
Amaral wasn't far wrong when he revealed that a German paedophile was to be investigated in the Maddie case. A better patsy they won't find as this guy is jailed for life and won't be going anywhere anytime soon. And all this some 12 years on even though he was already investigated and cleared by the original investigation.
A bit like the parents really.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 06, 2019, 02:55:46 PM
Amaral wasn't far wrong when he revealed that a German paedophile was to be investigated in the Maddie case. A better patsy they won't find as this guy is jailed for life and won't be going anywhere anytime soon. And all this some 12 years on even though he was already investigated and cleared by the original investigation.
So it’s a stitch up by the PJ after all then!
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 06, 2019, 03:05:26 PM
The information was said have been given to PJ by SY, so maybe they are the ones trying to drive this.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 06, 2019, 03:34:47 PM
Information has been received as the enquiry from UK Crimestoppers. It gives detailed information about a suspect in the Madeleine McCann case.
The suspect is named as a German national with the surname of MEISSNER. He has an alias of HANDFREIDRICH. He is described as a white male 55-60 year old, 5'8" tall, muscular build, with short grey wavy hair.
He is apparently actively involved in people trafficking and paedophilia and may be known to the German authorities. He may have an associate by the name of FRANKEL.
We request the German databases be checked for any information relating to this man.
3981 Information document Information that sex offenders listed on pages 293 to 300 were investigated in minute detail and nothing was found relating to the case of the missing child, Madeleine. 2 November 2007.
13-Processos Vol XIII Page 3981
UIPC - 201 07.0 GALGS 4th Brigada
INFORMATION
Concerning the information in Folios 293 - 300, I can inform you that in spite having carefully explored and analysed with minute detail, nothing useful was found of interest to the investigation. In spite of the individuals mentioned having criminal pasts linked to illegal practices of a sexual nature, no relation was detected with the disappearance of the British child, Madeleine McCann.
I was listening to the podcast with Amaral in it again last night, and at the end of it Amaral's translator says he thinks they are going to use a German paedophile who is in prison in England to close the case.
Could this be what SY have passed over? I thought it was a translation error but it definitely says a German paedo in prison in England.
So it’s the Met who think it’s a German paedo then? So that pretty much confirms that the parents are not suspects, does it not?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 06, 2019, 04:00:44 PM
All this comes out on an anniversary. That's not suspicious at all 8)--))
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 06, 2019, 04:02:47 PM
They only think it's a German paedo. They may be wrong.
I do hope this case highlights the recent case in Germany linked below. I don't know if these two guys are the SY suspects but their victims were mostly girls aged 4-13 and it seems that the videos/images taken in Germany began in 2008. (Which makes you wonder where they were before). However, the horrific aspect of this particular case is how the police managed to "lose" so much of the evidence. All in all, highlights how murky these investigations are and makes you wonder whether those in higher places are making a mockery of our judicial system. It actually makes me feel very queasy.
They only think it's a German paedo. They may be wrong.
So if they think it’s a German paedo then logic dictates that whether they are right or they are wrong, the parents are not their suspects? Am I right (again) even if it pains you to admit it?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Wonderfulspam on May 06, 2019, 04:41:08 PM
So if they think it’s a German paedo then logic dictates that whether they are right or they are wrong, the parents are not their suspects? Am I right (again) even if it pains you to admit it?
They could have more than one suspect. I don't believe the McCanns are suspects. I believe they are prime suspects.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 06, 2019, 04:45:37 PM
They may be YOUR prime suspects, but you don’t really count.
I don't see how the possibility of their involvement can be entirely ruled out. Apparently both forces do. But won't explain how.They keep the abduction evidence a closely guarded secret. Haven't even leaked what it is to the b........ Amaral.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 06, 2019, 04:54:36 PM
So if they think it’s a German paedo then logic dictates that whether they are right or they are wrong, the parents are not their suspects? Am I right (again) even if it pains you to admit it?
Depends on how many suspects they've got in the pipeline. Do you know, for I certainly don't.
Personally I d don't give a sh1t whether you think you are right or not
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 06, 2019, 04:57:54 PM
I don't see how the possibility of their involvement can be entirely ruled out. Apparently both forces do. But won't explain how.They keep the abduction evidence a closely guarded secret. Haven't even leaked what it is to the b........ Amaral.
According to the Telegraph Amaral no longer thinks the parents had anything to do with Madeleine’s disappearance.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 06, 2019, 05:20:06 PM
amaral may well realise the mccanns are not involved but he has too much to lose to admit it
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 06, 2019, 09:14:01 PM
this is an E-fit of the person (https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/05/05/10/madeleine-mccann-suspect.jpg?w660)
That does look a lot like Martin Ney IMO. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2019/05/05/TELEMMGLPICT000196146740_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqU3T7-3puylSNY2bJIFByxThp_0MkdOQp85SjGQ2DiQc.jpeg?imwidth=1400)
But there are other reports they are not investigating Martin Ney but someone else.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: kmc on May 06, 2019, 09:19:17 PM
this is an E-fit of the person (https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2019/05/05/10/madeleine-mccann-suspect.jpg?w660)
That does look a lot like Martin Ney IMO. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2019/05/05/TELEMMGLPICT000196146740_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqU3T7-3puylSNY2bJIFByxThp_0MkdOQp85SjGQ2DiQc.jpeg?imwidth=1400)
But there are other reports they are not investigating Martin Ney but someone else.
Also, worth googling Andreas V and Mario S. Mario S would have been pretty young 12 years ago but Andreas V bear a resemblance to one or two of the e-fits. (There is only one image of him where his eyes aren't blocked out). Will be interesting to eventually find out who the guy they are looking into is.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 06, 2019, 09:23:26 PM
Also, worth googling Andreas V and Mario S. Mario S would have been pretty young 12 years ago but Andreas V bear a resemblance to one or two of the e-fits. (There is only one image of him where his eyes aren't blocked out). Will be interesting to eventually find out who the guy they are looking into is.
Can you give me their full names please
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: kmc on May 06, 2019, 09:33:30 PM
They don't provide them - but there are quite a few articles - both guys are on remand and a lot of evidence has gone missing.
Like Ney, Andreas V was allowed to foster a child:
"Despite this allegation against him, Andreas V. was granted permission to become the guardian of a six-year-old foster daughter that same year. The local Youth Welfare Office has now launched an investigation into how Andreas V. was allowed to become a foster parent. When contacted by CNN, the Youth Welfare Office confirmed Andreas V. had been reported twice in 2016 for "possible child endangerment," even as Andreas V was regularly being assessed by youth welfare officers. In October of that year, however, the youth welfare office found no evidence of child endangerment and granted him guardianship of the foster child."
I put links on the page before....seems like they have footage from 2008, which made me wonder where he may have been before.
May or may not be connected but an interesting case just because of how much evidence has gone missing.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 10:44:02 PM
Just some of the suspects over the years that came to nothing.
Most of the the suspects above were either those that the parent’s PIs generated or were said to be being investigated by OG ( who if they are true has been leaking almost since it’s inception ).
2010.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: kmc on May 06, 2019, 10:57:15 PM
Most of the the suspects above were either those that the parent’s PIs generated or were said to be being investigated by OG ( who if they are true has been leaking almost since it’s inception ).
2010.
Not my point. Whether these guys are the suspects or not is not what worries me.... I just want to know how these types of cases are being handled and how two men can rape that many 4-13 year old children and the police "lose" most of the evidence.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 11:06:59 PM
Not my point. Whether these guys are the suspects or not is not what worries me.... I just want to know how these types of cases are being handled and how two men can rape that many 4-13 year old children and the police "lose" most of the evidence.
I wasn’t addressing your point K.
Do you think losing evidence is going to be something we need worry about in this case ? If not I can’t see how it’s relevant.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: kmc on May 06, 2019, 11:28:24 PM
Do you think losing evidence is going to be something we need worry about in this case ? If not I can’t see how it’s relevant.
Gosh....I think it is really sad that we live in a world where it is only "relevant" if it affects a "certain case". To be honest, if Kate and Gerry accidentally killed Madeleine then there is not a lot any of us can do about it - all the messages and ranting in the world aren't really going to help anyone or change anything. We may get them banged up - but quite honestly seeing Kate recently in the press - she looks like she is already serving a life sentence.
Yet I would have hoped that there were enough decent folk on here, to use such a platform to highlight the plight of children who don't have the luxury of a wider society finding their story relevant.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on May 06, 2019, 11:36:02 PM
Gosh....I think it is really sad that we live in a world where it is only "relevant" if it affects a "certain case". To be honest, if Kate and Gerry accidentally killed Madeleine then there is not a lot any of us can do about it - all the messages and ranting in the world aren't really going to help anyone or change anything. We may get them banged up - but quite honestly seeing Kate recently in the press - she looks like she is already serving a life sentence.
Yet I would have hoped that there were enough decent folk on here, to use such a platform to highlight the plight of children who don't have the luxury of a wider society finding their story relevant.
There are other threads for highlighting the plight of children however that wasn’t what you were doing. You were highlighting the fact that evidence seems to have gone missing in the case of two individuals and that is simply not relevant in this case.
As to the parents, they and their supporters have waged a 12 year war of attrition on anyone who dared question them. Do I feel sympathy for them....no they have made their bed. I’m afraid all my empathy is for a poor little girl who left to go on holiday and never came home.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: kmc on May 07, 2019, 12:34:47 AM
There are other threads for highlighting the plight of children however that wasn’t what you were doing. You were highlighting the fact that evidence seems to have gone missing in the case of two individuals and that is simply not relevant in this case.
As to the parents, they and their supporters have waged a 12 year war of attrition on anyone who dared question them. Do I feel sympathy for them....no they have made their bed. I’m afraid all my empathy is for a poor little girl who left to go on holiday and never came home.
In the grand scheme of things, neither yours nor my opinion are really of any relevance...however, the current state of the European Justice system is most certainly relevant to this case and every other case that ever comes to trial. It's not rocket science. Good night.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 07, 2019, 03:08:25 AM
In the grand scheme of things, neither yours nor my opinion are really of any relevance...however, the current state of the European Justice system is most certainly relevant to this case and every other case that ever comes to trial. It's not rocket science. Good night.
What you are describing is harder than rocket science, for rockets follow the laws of physics, but cases are resolved through a series of opinions and vary from time to time.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 07, 2019, 07:12:54 AM
There are other threads for highlighting the plight of children however that wasn’t what you were doing. You were highlighting the fact that evidence seems to have gone missing in the case of two individuals and that is simply not relevant in this case.
As to the parents, they and their supporters have waged a 12 year war of attrition on anyone who dared question them. Do I feel sympathy for them....no they have made their bed. I’m afraid all my empathy is for a poor little girl who left to go on holiday and never came home.
This last paragraph reflects rather badly on you IMO. If and when it is proven that the war being waged by sceptics against the MCCanns and their supporters was entirely unjust I have no doubt you will still find a way to justify it. You’re beyond reason IMO.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: jassi on May 07, 2019, 08:43:32 AM
Most of the the suspects above were either those that the parent’s PIs generated or were said to be being investigated by OG ( who if they are true has been leaking almost since it’s inception ).
2010.
Perhaps they weren't very strong, viable leads in the first place
There were some statistics, released years ago, that showed that police, both Portuguese and British have followed up hundreds and hundreds of 'leads' in an attempt to solve this case. Obviously most, if not all of them proved to be a complete waste of time.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 07, 2019, 09:33:12 AM
This last paragraph reflects rather badly on you IMO. If and when it is proven that the war being waged by sceptics against the MCCanns and their supporters was entirely unjust I have no doubt you will still find a way to justify it. You’re beyond reason IMO.
And that, to me, is reminiscent of all sorts of intolerances. Take your pick - political, racial, religious, and no doubt there are other instances.
Simply because you believe does not give you the right to lecture or harangue others because they do not accept what is merely your opinion.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Brietta on May 07, 2019, 09:56:26 AM
And that, to me, is reminiscent of all sorts of intolerances. Take your pick - political, racial, religious, and no doubt there are other instances.
Simply because you believe does not give you the right to lecture or harangue others because they do not accept what is merely your opinion.
WOW! That is a beaut of an hyperbole.
Please indicate where your accusation pick&mix of political, racial. religious etc … etc bears any relation to the post to which you are replying?
What do you think justifies your aggressive tone?
You seem intent to be upping the ante on intemperate posting here. Unless you can also show how you can equate lecturing and haranguing with the post you are replying to?? . Please try to temper the tone of your replies … which I’m sure will inspire a more pleasant posting experience for all … as opposed to the war zone I think posts such as yours tend to encourage.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: The General on May 07, 2019, 10:08:27 AM
Please indicate where your accusation pick&mix of political, racial. religious etc … etc bears any relation to the post to which you are replying?
What do you think justifies your aggressive tone?
You seem intent to be upping the ante on intemperate posting here. Unless you can also show how you can equate lecturing and haranguing with the post you are replying to?? . Please try to temper the tone of your replies … which I’m sure will inspire a more pleasant posting experience for all … as opposed to the war zone I think posts such as yours tend to encourage.
The irony here is that, being so demonstrative, demanding answers to your questions about the content, but simultaneously being equally dismissive of it and demanding a modification of behaviour in a judgmental manner, your post could be construed as hyperbole and aggressive. WOW! That is a beaut of an hyperbole. You seem intent to be upping the ante on intemperate posting here temper the tone of your replies the war zone I think posts such as yours tend to encourage
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Erngath on May 07, 2019, 10:30:49 AM
I view the fact that the investigation as no demonstrable results to show after seven long expensive years of work, as the most most compelling evidence that I can see, that the parents have never been suspects. I Have never said they were either.
They are still my number one suspects.
Who is " they" ? Only Madeleine`s mother and father or do you include anyone else? And what crime or crimes do you suspect they have committed?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Erngath on May 07, 2019, 10:52:33 AM
A) The minor Madeleine McCann died in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort, on the night of May 3rd of 2007;
B) It was performed a simulation of kidnapping;
C) In order to avoid the death [alarm] of the minor before 22H00, it was created a situation of the children's surveillance by the McCann while the children slept;
D) Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are involved in the occultation of the cadaver of their child Madeleine McCann;
E) At this moment, there seems that there aren't strong indicia that the death of the minor didn't happen due to a tragic accident;
F) From what was obtained until now, everything points out that the McCann, as self-defence, didn't want to deliver immediately and voluntarily the cadaver, existing a strong possibility that the same was transported from the initial place of deposition. This situation is susceptible to raise questions about the circumstances under which the death of the minor occurred.
So we suggest that the 'Autos' be sent to the EX.mo Sr. Procurador Geral da R'ublica [General Attorney], in order to:
G) New interrogation of the Arguidos Kate and Gerry McCann; H) Evaluation of the measure of restraint to be applied in this case;
It's quite disappointing when a response is just the churning out of something which is almost twelve years old. I had hoped for your own thoughts and beliefs. So you are definitely one sceptic whose beliefs have not altered for twelve years in spite of very lengthy investigations which certainly at the moment do not seem to regard Madeleines parents as the " number one suspects".
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 07, 2019, 10:58:40 AM
A) The minor Madeleine McCann died in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort, on the night of May 3rd of 2007;
B) It was performed a simulation of kidnapping;
C) In order to avoid the death [alarm] of the minor before 22H00, it was created a situation of the children's surveillance by the McCann while the children slept;
D) Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are involved in the occultation of the cadaver of their child Madeleine McCann;
E) At this moment, there seems that there aren't strong indicia that the death of the minor didn't happen due to a tragic accident;
F) From what was obtained until now, everything points out that the McCann, as self-defence, didn't want to deliver immediately and voluntarily the cadaver, existing a strong possibility that the same was transported from the initial place of deposition. This situation is susceptible to raise questions about the circumstances under which the death of the minor occurred.
So we suggest that the 'Autos' be sent to the EX.mo Sr. Procurador Geral da R'ublica [General Attorney], in order to:
G) New interrogation of the Arguidos Kate and Gerry McCann; H) Evaluation of the measure of restraint to be applied in this case;
It's even more disappointing that the AUTOS daughter has been missing twelve years. Those are my own thoughts and it's in spite of the fact there as been a very lengthy investigation, the lack of demonstrable results from that investigation can only viewed as further evidence to reinforce my suspicions.
It's as sure as night follows day, if there was no abduction, there will never be any abductor to arrest.
They weren't your thoughts though and neither have you in my opinion offered any answers to my original questions. Who are the "Autos"?
Do you believe that his whole latest episode of the investigation has been manufactured and if so , why?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 07, 2019, 11:15:57 AM
Please indicate where your accusation pick&mix of political, racial. religious etc … etc bears any relation to the post to which you are replying?
What do you think justifies your aggressive tone?
You seem intent to be upping the ante on intemperate posting here. Unless you can also show how you can equate lecturing and haranguing with the post you are replying to?? . Please try to temper the tone of your replies … which I’m sure will inspire a more pleasant posting experience for all … as opposed to the war zone I think posts such as yours tend to encourage.
In my day, I would have deleted the VS post as ad hom, because it clearly is. A poster was characterised in a derogatory manner in a purely hypothetical scenario.
I know that the board has swung largely in favour of 'supporters' and against 'sceptics', but moderators are still expected to abide by the forum rules.
I grew up in a toxic atmosphere of opposing religious beliefs. Fortunately, I have outgrown that atmosphere. But the 'supporters' versus ''sceptics' is very reminiscent of it indeed.
I find the labels to be petty and offensive, and the use of them to be counter-productive. It is like watching immature children squabbling. As far as I know, all of us are now beyond childhood. I thought this was meant to be a forum for debate among adults.
And if you need a similar political example, just watch the next PM's Question Time. I am confident it will be equally immature.
Here's a suggestion. If you would act as a moderator and delete the offensive part of the VS post, feel free to delete my response. Will you then have the decency to delete your own aggressive post? Even though your 'war zone' comment perfectly illustrates my point?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 07, 2019, 11:17:46 AM
Yes I understand it, you know I do. Because the evidence wasn't confirmed, doesn't stop me using it when forming my opinion. Like I have said before, an alive Madeleine McCann will be the only thing that confirms my opinion is wrong.
So your opinion is, baseless... That's it.. Not based on any evidence... Like the report you quoted
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: barrier on May 07, 2019, 11:19:15 AM
It's quite disappointing when a response is just the churning out of something which is almost twelve years old. I had hoped for your own thoughts and beliefs. So you are definitely one sceptic whose beliefs have not altered for twelve years in spite of very lengthy investigations which certainly at the moment do not seem to regard Madeleines parents as the " number one suspects".
Any response is likely to be churning out something 12 yrs old,how many times have we read Grange are closing in on suspects. If its true that 12 months grants are being asked for,you can just imagine how the conversation goes. Dick:We are on a last lead . Home Office: We've heard that before: Dick: No this time its for real. HO: OK,here's your money,let us know how it's going. Dick: Will do in 11 months, close to the anniversary we'll have another last lead. HO: In the meantime whats happening to the 45 murders in the capital so far this year. Dick: We're on it.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 07, 2019, 11:22:54 AM
Any response is likely to be churning out something 12 yrs old,how many times have we read Grange are closing in on suspects. If its true that 12 months grants are being asked for,you can just imagine how the conversation goes. Dick:We are on a last lead . Home Office: We've heard that before: Dick: No this time its for real. HO: OK,here's your money,let us know how it's going. Dick: Will do in 11 months, close to the anniversary we'll have another last lead. HO: In the meantime whats happening to the 45 murders in the capital so far this year. Dick: We're on it.
I've never had any time for imaginary conversations!
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Erngath on May 07, 2019, 11:27:36 AM
If you don't like them, that's just too bad. You're lucky you got them at all.
I believe we are getting close to being able to demonstrate that this whole episode of the investigation wasted a whole lot of public money and got it all wrong. If they arrest and convict and abductor I'll be proved wrong. Here's hoping!
I won't bother asking for your thoughts again. I didn't appreciate how lucky I was to receive an answer!
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 07, 2019, 11:27:51 AM
You can ask and I'll give you them but if you're not prepared to accept them, that's the bit that's just too bad. People can share their thought's and I share Almeida's thoughts, especially the bits:
G) New interrogation of the Arguidos Kate and Gerry McCann; H) Evaluation of the measure of restraint to be applied in this case;
I don't have to accept that your beliefs and thoughts are correct! I do certainly accept that they are your thoughts and beliefs.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Mr Gray on May 07, 2019, 11:46:42 AM
OK, if you think the fact it cannot be proven that Madeleine was not abducted by an Alien spaceship is significant I'll bear that in mind for future reference.
I think it's highly significant in view of some of the theories being proposed
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: barrier on May 07, 2019, 12:11:56 PM
Blooming heck its dragging the Queen into it now.
REVEALED: Crucial witness who may have seen Maddie McCann kidnapped a friend of the Queen
Carole Tranmer saw a man leaving the back gate of 5B in my opinion. Probably Matt Oldfield as he was staying there. Summers and Swann misunderstood Tranmer's statement and have spread the myth that she saw a man leaving the gate of 5A. I think they perpetuated their myth in the Netflix series too. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8672380/praia-de-luz-holidaymaker-who-stayed-in-flat-above-the-mccanns-saw-prowler-open-gate-hours-before-maddie-was-snatched/
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: pathfinder73 on May 07, 2019, 01:12:17 PM
Agreed 5A side gate couldn't be seen where she was seated on the balcony. A whole lot of nothing!
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Eleanor on May 07, 2019, 02:22:00 PM
Carole Tranmer saw a man leaving the back gate of 5B in my opinion. Probably Matt Oldfield as he was staying there. Summers and Swann misunderstood Tranmer's statement and have spread the myth that she saw a man leaving the gate of 5A. I think they perpetuated their myth in the Netflix series too. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8672380/praia-de-luz-holidaymaker-who-stayed-in-flat-above-the-mccanns-saw-prowler-open-gate-hours-before-maddie-was-snatched/
What are the specific words that make you say "Summers and Swann misunderstood Tranmer's statement and have spread the myth that she saw a man leaving the gate of 5A" So far in that article it says "A TOURIST staying in the apartment above the McCanns' saw a suspicious man leaving the ground floor apartments on the day Maddie vanished, a documentary claims."
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 07, 2019, 06:00:19 PM
Excellent, as I need to go and cook for our cadaver dog.
Then I need to forensically clean our home before the KGB turns up tomorrow at the crack of dawn.
It's a tough life, but I'm only getting one, and I'm running short on time.
You should write your memoirs, before it’s too late. That’s what my mother is doing, and she is 81. It’s something to pass down the line, for any descendants who might be interested. Imagine if every one of your ancestors (who could actually write) had done the same and copies were passed down the generations how fascinating it would be.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: The General on May 07, 2019, 06:59:40 PM
Carole Tranmer saw a man leaving the back gate of 5B in my opinion. Probably Matt Oldfield as he was staying there. Summers and Swann misunderstood Tranmer's statement and have spread the myth that she saw a man leaving the gate of 5A. I think they perpetuated their myth in the Netflix series too. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8672380/praia-de-luz-holidaymaker-who-stayed-in-flat-above-the-mccanns-saw-prowler-open-gate-hours-before-maddie-was-snatched/
I don’t think the misunderstanding was Summers fault. As he was reading from his book that a man had left via the gate of one of the apartments a piece of film was shown of the gate of 5a. The viewer was misdirected by the producers not Summers.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: G-Unit on May 07, 2019, 07:12:27 PM
What are the specific words that make you say "Summers and Swann misunderstood Tranmer's statement and have spread the myth that she saw a man leaving the gate of 5A" So far in that article it says "A TOURIST staying in the apartment above the McCanns' saw a suspicious man leaving the ground floor apartments on the day Maddie vanished, a documentary claims."
Investigator and author Anthony Summers told Netflix producers: "Perhaps the most telling sighting of all is that of Carole Tranmer who had been out to see her aunt who was living in the apartment immediately above the McCanns.
"Carole was looking out of the window.
"She said: 'Looking down below the McCann flat I saw someone come out of the ground floor apartment closing the gate very carefully and quietly https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8672380/praia-de-luz-holidaymaker-who-stayed-in-flat-above-the-mccanns-saw-prowler-open-gate-hours-before-maddie-was-snatched/
Carole was on Mrs Fenn's balcony, Mr Summers, not looking out of a window. The article contains a picture of the gate to 5A, saying it was the gate Mrs Tranmore was observing, but it wasn't.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 07, 2019, 07:14:47 PM
You should write your memoirs, before it’s too late. That’s what my mother is doing, and she is 81. It’s something to pass down the line, for any descendants who might be interested. Imagine if every one of your ancestors (who could actually write) had done the same and copies were passed down the generations how fascinating it would be.
I've researched my family tree, and it defines boring. Generation after generation of coal-miners.
The only interesting bit was that one aunt apparently had a baby by a GI in WW2, then the child was passed to another aunt to be raised as hers.
I could probe such scandal, but as all the protagonists who could reveal sensitive information are long since dead, I cannot see the point.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on May 07, 2019, 07:19:22 PM
I've researched my family tree, and it defines boring. Generation after generation of coal-miners.
The only interesting bit was that one aunt apparently had a baby by a GI in WW2, then the child was passed to another aunt to be raised as hers.
I could probe such scandal, but as all the protagonists who could reveal sensitive information are long since dead, I cannot see the point.
You don’t think the memoirs of a humble coalminer worth reading? Shame. What about your life though? Degree, important job, relocation to Maddieville, controversy thanks to the national media, training a cadaver dog, recipes, the KG , all that, surely there’s a tale to be told to pass on to the grandkids and their kids too?
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: ShiningInLuz on May 07, 2019, 07:31:25 PM
You don’t think the memoirs of a humble coalminer worth reading? Shame. What about your life though? Degree, important job, relocation to Maddieville, controversy thanks to the national media, training a cadaver dog, recipes, the KG , all that, surely there’s a tale to be told to pass on to the grandkids and their kids too?
The children have lived in Maddieville, and disliked it.
The grandchildren are too young to give a jot about someone who disappeared before they were born.
As to the rest, Gonçalo's Gourmet Guide is stacked up and ready to go. But I have another post for my blog that I would prefer to do first.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: Robittybob1 on May 07, 2019, 09:55:04 PM
Investigator and author Anthony Summers told Netflix producers: "Perhaps the most telling sighting of all is that of Carole Tranmer who had been out to see her aunt who was living in the apartment immediately above the McCanns.
"Carole was looking out of the window.
"She said: 'Looking down below the McCann flat I saw someone come out of the ground floor apartment closing the gate very carefully and quietly https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8672380/praia-de-luz-holidaymaker-who-stayed-in-flat-above-the-mccanns-saw-prowler-open-gate-hours-before-maddie-was-snatched/
Carole was on Mrs Fenn's balcony, Mr Summers, not looking out of a window. The article contains a picture of the gate to 5A, saying it was the gate Mrs Tranmore was observing, but it wasn't.
I agree with that bit. IMO The gate observed by Tranmer wasn't associated with the 5A but 5B.
Title: Re: Is this new suspect revelation just too convenient given the 12th anniversary?
Post by: faithlilly on June 23, 2019, 11:55:39 AM
It would appear that the ‘new suspect ‘ story was revealed in May by Expresso, a newspaper that has close ties to both the parents and the parent’s Portuguese PR firm, Lift Consulting.
It would appear that the ‘new suspect ‘ story was revealed in May by Expresso, a newspaper that has close ties to both the parents and the parent’s Portuguese PR firm, Lift Consulting.