Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Holly Goodhead on August 15, 2019, 02:45:06 PM
Title: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 15, 2019, 02:45:06 PM
Back by popular demand...
A poster has recently claimed that the McCann parents gave a good deal of information about the sleeping habits of their 3 children which the poster bets they would like to withdraw.
Does anyone know anything about this?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Miss Taken Identity on August 15, 2019, 04:20:24 PM
A poster has recently claimed that the McCann parents gave a good deal of information about the sleeping habits of their 3 children which the poster bets they would like to withdraw.
Does anyone know anything about this?
Would that be me by any chance?
The parents had a wall chart at home and gave a star for not getting up- not sure about the twins in cots.
The parents also made claims that turning on the light or opening the front door could wake them.
The parents claim that their daughter challenged them about Sean being awake crying and them not being in the flat.
It is writen that Kate left the door unlocked so that their 3 daughter who was apparently appointed baby sitter- could go and fetch them if the Twins woke up crying.
Admitting to this, it doesn't take a detective to work out the children were not known to have a deep sleep all through the night. With this information it was noted that it seemed strange that the children chose this night to sleep through a great commotion.
Kate claims she noticed this was indeed strange that not only were the lights on but people were whailing and screeching, walking about...the twins slept through it.
It has been argued that if the mother knows the sleep behaviour of her family she would know if there was something untward. that being said if she felt something ws wrong she should have said something there and then. It was the parents who suggested drugged children.
The supporters are trying to re write what the parents said and claimed regarding the drug scenario and other matters as if trying to correct any anomolies. it is with that I said 'tongue in cheek' they should not have given dubious information that could be challenged- i bet they wished they could withdraw the statements which do not add up.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2019, 05:47:30 PM
I bet they haven’t given it a second’s thought for years. Do you seriously think the McCanns are sat at home fretting about the statements they gave 12 years ago?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 15, 2019, 06:54:07 PM
It has been claimed on another thread that psychology (which covers the science of sleep) is a pseudo science. Can someone please tell me what is pseudo about the following course:
Are we to believe that the likes of John Bowlby and Simon Baron-Cohen, notable psychologists, are pseudo scientists?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen
Most of us don't live in the dark ages; there most definitely is a science underlying sleep (and I'm not talking about the comedy film). Does anyone here actually carry out any research or just post whatever pops into their head?
It has been claimed on another thread that psychology (which covers the science of sleep) is a pseudo science. Can someone please tell me what is pseudo about the following course:
Are we to believe that the likes of John Bowlby and Simon Baron-Cohen, notable psychologists, are pseudo scientists?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen
Most of us don't live in the dark ages; there most definitely is a science underlying sleep (and I'm not talking about the comedy film). Does anyone here actually carry out any research or just post whatever pops into their head?
I wouldn’t worry too much about the opinions of a few ill-informed, ignorant online posters, they’ll say pretty much anything to get a rise out of you. I wonder what a psychologist would make of such behavior...?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2019, 07:01:07 PM
As MTI has pointed out, the only reason this has ever been discussed is that Madeleine's mother suggested it. Despite her later claims there's no evidence that the PJ were informed until it was reported by Ricardo Paiva that Kate spoke about it to him "three months after the disappearance."
Strangely, Kate also made several requests, three months after the disappearance of Madeleine, that the police should take blood, hair and nail tests of Madeleine's twin siblings, because, as she said, she remembered that on the day of Madeleine's disappearance, in spite of all the commotion and noise made by the authorities and other persons who were looking for Madeleine in apartment 5A of the OC, the twins never woke up, having been transported to another apartment, they remained asleep, due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative drug that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to be able to abduct Madeleine, a situation which Kate refers to being possible according to what she read in a criminal investigation manual given to her by the British authorities, that would have been the procedure of the abductor in the real case involving abduction, rape and murder of the girl. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm
Later still, Kate raises the possibility in her book;
I wandered into the children’s bedroom several times to check on Sean and Amelie. They were both lying on their fronts in a kind of crouch, with their heads turned sideways and their knees tucked under their tummies. In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred. They’d always been sound sleepers, but this seemed unnatural. Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life. [madeleine]
Scared? Checking for signs of life? Blaming the police for taking no action? A serious accusation. Only on examination of the evidence does it become clear that the police weren't informed. The obvious question then is why not? Why didn't this mother insist? Why didn't she call an ambulance herself? There is no credible answer imo.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2019, 07:16:18 PM
It has been claimed on another thread that psychology (which covers the science of sleep) is a pseudo science. Can someone please tell me what is pseudo about the following course:
Are we to believe that the likes of John Bowlby and Simon Baron-Cohen, notable psychologists, are pseudo scientists?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bowlby
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen
Most of us don't live in the dark ages; there most definitely is a science underlying sleep (and I'm not talking about the comedy film). Does anyone here actually carry out any research or just post whatever pops into their head?
You may be right and there was nothing wrong with the twins, but is that the point? In my opinion the point is;
Why did a mother who says she was so worried about her children's wellbeing that she checked them for 'signs of life' do nothing at all to ensure they were OK?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2019, 07:18:20 PM
You may be right and there was nothing wrong with the twins, but is that the point? In my opinion the point is;
Why did a mother who says she was so worried about her children's wellbeing that she checked them for 'signs of life' do nothing at all to ensure they were OK?
She did do something to ensure they were OK. She checked them and monitored them through the night. She and her friends ar docotrs. They also had other things to worry about too. OK, you want to disagree with that I know but I’m not interested in having this argument yet again.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 15, 2019, 07:27:35 PM
As MTI has pointed out, the only reason this has ever been discussed is that Madeleine's mother suggested it. Despite her later claims there's no evidence that the PJ were informed until it was reported by Ricardo Paiva that Kate spoke about it to him "three months after the disappearance."
Strangely, Kate also made several requests, three months after the disappearance of Madeleine, that the police should take blood, hair and nail tests of Madeleine's twin siblings, because, as she said, she remembered that on the day of Madeleine's disappearance, in spite of all the commotion and noise made by the authorities and other persons who were looking for Madeleine in apartment 5A of the OC, the twins never woke up, having been transported to another apartment, they remained asleep, due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative drug that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to be able to abduct Madeleine, a situation which Kate refers to being possible according to what she read in a criminal investigation manual given to her by the British authorities, that would have been the procedure of the abductor in the real case involving abduction, rape and murder of the girl. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SERVICE_INFORMATION.htm
Later still, Kate raises the possibility in her book;
I wandered into the children’s bedroom several times to check on Sean and Amelie. They were both lying on their fronts in a kind of crouch, with their heads turned sideways and their knees tucked under their tummies. In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred. They’d always been sound sleepers, but this seemed unnatural. Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life. [madeleine]
Scared? Checking for signs of life? Blaming the police for taking no action? A serious accusation. Only on examination of the evidence does it become clear that the police weren't informed. The obvious question then is why not? Why didn't this mother insist? Why didn't she call an ambulance herself? There is no credible answer imo.
Yes I accept all you say above and thanks for providing the supporting evidence but there's no reason KM would have any understanding of the science of sleep as a medi doctor. I've previously pointed out it is covered in some basic detail on psychology courses but I think it is covered in more detail on neuroscience courses.
https://www.tuck.com/stages/
Toddlers (1 year – 3 years) With sleeping patterns fully developed, children spend approximately 25% in Stage 3 deep sleep with almost an equal amount of time in REM. Average sleep time is 9.5-10.5 hours per 24 hour period. Typically naps will reduce to 1 per day most likely occurring early in the afternoon to allow for proper nighttime sleep.
Pre-School (3 – 6 years) Sleep time is similar to that of toddlers, approximately 9-10 hours per 24 hour period. The afternoon nap usually subsides around 3-4 years for a majority of children. Stage 3 sleep still remains high in relation to total sleep time.
Stage 3 is deep sleep that's difficult to wake from.
https://www.tuck.com/stages/
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2019, 07:41:15 PM
Yes I accept all you say above and thanks for providing the supporting evidence but there's no reason KM would have any understanding of the science of sleep as a medi doctor. I've previously pointed out it is covered in some basic detail on psychology courses but I think it is covered in more detail on neuroscience courses.
https://www.tuck.com/stages/
Toddlers (1 year – 3 years) With sleeping patterns fully developed, children spend approximately 25% in Stage 3 deep sleep with almost an equal amount of time in REM. Average sleep time is 9.5-10.5 hours per 24 hour period. Typically naps will reduce to 1 per day most likely occurring early in the afternoon to allow for proper nighttime sleep.
Pre-School (3 – 6 years) Sleep time is similar to that of toddlers, approximately 9-10 hours per 24 hour period. The afternoon nap usually subsides around 3-4 years for a majority of children. Stage 3 sleep still remains high in relation to total sleep time.
Stage 3 is deep sleep that's difficult to wake from.
https://www.tuck.com/stages/
I see you are still avoiding answering the point I keep raising.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 15, 2019, 07:58:43 PM
I see you are still avoiding answering the point I keep raising.
Probably overlooked or misunderstood rather than avoiding. Perhaps you could raise the point again and I will endeavour to respond post run, bath and G&T with ice, lemon and pink paper straw 8)--))
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 15, 2019, 08:00:05 PM
Madeleine would often get up in the night and go and sleep in the same bed as err Kate and Gerry so I think their sleep patterns were pretty disturbed and I always marvelled at how well, I mean I'd be so much more tired than they were and, and grouchy but they never were.
Probably overlooked or misunderstood rather than avoiding. Perhaps you could raise the point again and I will endeavour to respond post run, bath and G&T with ice, lemon and pink paper straw 8)--))
Scared? Checking for signs of life? Blaming the police for taking no action? A serious accusation. Only on examination of the evidence does it become clear that the police weren't informed. The obvious question then is why not? Why didn't this mother insist? Why didn't she call an ambulance herself? There is no credible answer imo. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10974.msg552579#msg552579
In my opinion the point is;
Why did a mother who says she was so worried about her children's wellbeing that she checked them for 'signs of life' do nothing at all to ensure they were OK? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10974.msg552581#msg552581
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 15, 2019, 10:12:38 PM
Scared? Checking for signs of life? Blaming the police for taking no action? A serious accusation. Only on examination of the evidence does it become clear that the police weren't informed. The obvious question then is why not? Why didn't this mother insist? Why didn't she call an ambulance herself? There is no credible answer imo. http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10974.msg552579#msg552579
In my opinion the point is;
Why did a mother who says she was so worried about her children's wellbeing that she checked them for 'signs of life' do nothing at all to ensure they were OK? http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=10974.msg552581#msg552581
So what you're saying is KM claimed from the off MM was abducted and could not understand how he/she entered, carried out MM and neither of the twins were disturbed to the extent KM considered the twins may have been interfered with in some way in which case why not get them checked over medically?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2019, 10:30:44 PM
So what you're saying is KM claimed from the off MM was abducted and could not understand how he/she entered, carried out MM and neither of the twins were disturbed to the extent KM considered the twins may have been interfered with in some way in which case why not get them checked over medically?
In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred...this seemed unnatural...Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life...I reported my fears that all three children could have been sedated [madeleine]
The children slept on when taken to the new apartment. They continued to sleep when moved again to the Payne's apartment. Still their mother did...nothing.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2019, 10:40:06 PM
In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred...this seemed unnatural...Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life...I reported my fears that all three children could have been sedated [madeleine]
The children slept on when taken to the new apartment. They continued to sleep when moved again to the Payne's apartment. Still their mother did...nothing.
Are you quoting Kate’s words as fact or fiction?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 15, 2019, 10:50:03 PM
In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred...this seemed unnatural...Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life...I reported my fears that all three children could have been sedated [madeleine]
The children slept on when taken to the new apartment. They continued to sleep when moved again to the Payne's apartment. Still their mother did...nothing.
But neither did the other three doctors there in the Payne's apartment. David, Fiona, Gerry and Kate.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 15, 2019, 11:47:52 PM
isnt it symptomatic of the lack of evidence against the McCanns that these sort of questions are being raised...pathetic...imo
One of the features of this case is the disgraceful way the Portuguese police were portrayed. The McCanns, particularly Kate McCann, began criticising almost immediately and she continues it in her book. This particular criticism is completely unfounded in my opinion.
Since Madeleine was snatched apparently without making a sound, we had always suspected that all three children might have been sedated by the abductor. We mentioned this to the police that night and several more times in the following weeks, but no testing of urine, blood or hair, which could have revealed the presence of drugs, had ever been done. [madeleine]
There is no evidence that they mentioned this to the police; Portuguese or British.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2019, 07:12:46 AM
One of the features of this case is the disgraceful way the Portuguese police were portrayed. The McCanns, particularly Kate McCann, began criticising almost immediately and she continues it in her book. This particular criticism is completely unfounded in my opinion.
Since Madeleine was snatched apparently without making a sound, we had always suspected that all three children might have been sedated by the abductor. We mentioned this to the police that night and several more times in the following weeks, but no testing of urine, blood or hair, which could have revealed the presence of drugs, had ever been done. [madeleine]
There is no evidence that they mentioned this to the police; Portuguese or British.
So fiction then?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 16, 2019, 07:45:05 AM
So you believe she would tell a blatant lie about communicating her concerns to the police in her best-selling book, knowing that this would be easily refuted by the same police force, in particular its rent-a-gob in chief? What does he say on the matter? Has he claimed she lied about this in her book? If not, why not? It seems of vital significance to some on here, strange that Amaral didn’t write a whole book on the subject, or perhaps that’s the ace he’s keeping up his sleeve....
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 16, 2019, 08:41:35 AM
In spite of the noise and lights and general pandemonium, they hadn’t stirred...this seemed unnatural...Scared for them, too, I placed the palms of my hands on their backs to check for chest movement, basically, for some sign of life...I reported my fears that all three children could have been sedated [madeleine]
The children slept on when taken to the new apartment. They continued to sleep when moved again to the Payne's apartment. Still their mother did...nothing.
Oh yes I remember reading it now. Well she obviously has no understanding of the science of sleep.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 16, 2019, 10:32:24 AM
Madeleine would often get up in the night and go and sleep in the same bed as err Kate and Gerry so I think their sleep patterns were pretty disturbed and I always marvelled at how well, I mean I'd be so much more tired than they were and, and grouchy but they never were.
Oh yes I remember reading it now. Well she obviously has no understanding of the science of sleep.
It's not about whether the twins were or were not sedated imo. It's about why their mother, who says she was concerned for their lives, did nothing about it. If one or both had stopped breathing it might have been too late as far as she knew.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 16, 2019, 11:30:15 AM
It's not about whether the twins were or were not sedated imo. It's about why their mother, who says she was concerned for their lives, did nothing about it. If one or both had stopped breathing it might have been too late as far as she knew.
Yes I see what you're saying but I guess she was reassured they were ok by the other 5 medi doctors around her and at that moment in time she was more concerned with MM.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 16, 2019, 12:41:24 PM
Madeleine went missing and she had the problem with sleeping. She was a very hyperactive child by all accounts but she did not go out to play like normal on 3 May 2007. That change in routine is an important time in this whole case.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 16, 2019, 12:44:55 PM
Madeleine went missing and she had the problem with sleeping. She was a very hyperactive child by all accounts so she wouldn't be too pleased about not going out to play like normal on 3 May 2007.
Have we seen any reports from child psychologists diagnosing MM as a very hyperactive child? If not what supporting evidence do you have for your claims?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 16, 2019, 01:50:52 PM
Yes I see what you're saying but I guess she was reassured they were ok by the other 5 medi doctors around her and at that moment in time she was more concerned with MM.
You guess? No-one except Fiona ever mentioned the checking for breathing, and she doesn't mention offering any reasurance.
Here is a mother with a child missing and two who she seemed to think might stop breathing. She can do nothing for the missing child, but she could make sure the others were checked out. There's no excuse for not doing that imo.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 16, 2019, 03:50:48 PM
Quote from: Faithlilly on Today at 11:46:42 AM
At no time do you see Sean’s face.
His sister’s face you can see and she is very much awake....so how do we know that she’s a ‘heavy sleeper ‘ when all the evidence points against it ?
Quote from: Vertigo Swirl on Today at 03:42:14 PM
When have I claimed that we have evidence that Amelie was a very heavy sleeper? We have evidence that one twin was, evidence which you refuse to accept because you need to see his eyes closed. I am sufficiently intelligent and perceptive to be able to recognise that Sean is fast asleep in that clip without needing to check the state of his eyes. If ome twin is a very heavy sleeper then it is not beyond the realm of fantasy that both twins are, though granted we have no evidence that both are, a claim I never made in the first place.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Lace on August 16, 2019, 04:57:07 PM
So you believe she would tell a blatant lie about communicating her concerns to the police in her best-selling book, knowing that this would be easily refuted by the same police force, in particular its rent-a-gob in chief? What does he say on the matter? Has he claimed she lied about this in her book? If not, why not? It seems of vital significance to some on here, strange that Amaral didn’t write a whole book on the subject, or perhaps that’s the ace he’s keeping up his sleeve....
Amaral apparently said they [the police] were worried about the twins from the beginning. Which tells me he knew the twins slept through the noise. I believe Kate did mention it to the Police and they told Amaral, he did nothing.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: barrier on August 16, 2019, 05:26:25 PM
Amaral apparently said they [the police] were worried about the twins from the beginning. Which tells me he knew the twins slept through the noise. I believe Kate did mention it to the Police and they told Amaral, he did nothing.
You say apparently Amaral knew,either he did or didn't,cite for him knowing please.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2019, 06:03:35 PM
According to Amaral the twins woke up when being transferred from their cots. So perhaps this would account for the fact that the teins were not rushed to hospital in a medical emergency
“The twins only woke up when they were being transferred to the other apartment. They sleep deeply, those English children...
- OK, no joking!
- Actually, I'm not joking, I'm thinking aloud...All the same, it's extraordinary. These English little ones are on holiday; in spite of the excitement they must be feeling, they go to sleep every day at the same time. Their sleep is so deep and so calm that they are almost to be envied”. Nice how Amaral is taking the piss out of the McCann children, isn’t it?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: barrier on August 16, 2019, 06:07:20 PM
According to Amaral the twins woke up when being transferred from their cots. So perhaps this would account for the fact that the teins were not rushed to hospital in a medical emergency
“The twins only woke up when they were being transferred to the other apartment. They sleep deeply, those English children...
- OK, no joking!
- Actually, I'm not joking, I'm thinking aloud...All the same, it's extraordinary. These English little ones are on holiday; in spite of the excitement they must be feeling, they go to sleep every day at the same time. Their sleep is so deep and so calm that they are almost to be envied”. Nice how Amaral is taking the piss out of the McCann children, isn’t it?
At least he didn't resort to foul mouth expletives.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2019, 06:10:21 PM
At least he didn't resort to foul mouth expletives.
I have no problem with “foul mouthed expletives” where they are deserved, far preferable to snide mockery of the sleeping habits of little children, IMO.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 16, 2019, 07:07:35 PM
Have we seen any reports from child psychologists diagnosing MM as a very hyperactive child? If not what supporting evidence do you have for your claims?
I suggest you watch the full documentary.
13:45
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 16, 2019, 07:42:50 PM
A child that never stops because she is so full of energy is hyperactive.
Never stops what?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 16, 2019, 09:49:57 PM
She was a hyperactive child - never stops, she keeps going like Kate said.
4078 'And how would you describe Madeleine''
Reply 'Erm, yeah, sweet, lovely, you know, sort of very sort of outgoing and, erm, you know, enthusiastic, bounds of energy, sort of memories of her as they're running round the bits when we sort of chased her, it was always 'I want more. I want more. Be a monster. Be a monster' and running round, yeah'.
She was a hyperactive child - never stops, she keeps going like Kate said.
4078 'And how would you describe Madeleine''
Reply 'Erm, yeah, sweet, lovely, you know, sort of very sort of outgoing and, erm, you know, enthusiastic, bounds of energy, sort of memories of her as they're running round the bits when we sort of chased her, it was always 'I want more. I want more. Be a monster. Be a monster' and running round, yeah'.
That description does not mean she can be described as hyperactive. Hyper active children are unruly, don't conform to rules when engaged in an activity, are not inclined to listen to a story and generally can be disruptive. A child who is enthusiastic and outgoing and has bounds of energy is not necessarily hyperactive. Most children are enthusiastic and energetic.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 16, 2019, 10:01:12 PM
I noticed an unusual point in the the search for Nora in Malaysia, they recorded the voice of her mother calling to her and they played that over a loud speaker as they searched. They got criticised for that but IMO it was clever thinking.
I was thinking about Madeleine McCann and in my theory that she became frightened first by the burglars then by Matt and then by a possible later visit by Russell (who wasn't sure that Matt had checked). All these strange men "after her" and then if she ran outside there were men calling out her name and none that she really recognised. It certainly has the possibility of fear coming into it. Could Madeleine overcome the fear and stop the panic?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 16, 2019, 10:03:25 PM
That description does not mean she can be described as hyperactive. Hyper active children are unruly, don't conform to rules when engaged in an activity, are not inclined to listen to a story and generally can be disruptive. A child who is enthusiastic and outgoing and has bounds of energy is not necessarily hyperactive. Most children are enthusiastic and energetic.
All of them commented to the McCanns about how much more energy Madeleine possessed. They all noticed it. I don't know what stupid game you are playing but a child that never stops or never sits still is hyperactive.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Erngath on August 16, 2019, 10:04:39 PM
All of them commented to the McCanns about how much more energy Madeleine possessed. They all noticed it. I don't know what stupid game you are playing but a child that never stops or never sits still is hyperactive.
In your opinion. I'll leave you now to continue. I don't play"stupid games. However I have taught hundreds of enthusiastic and energetic children and believe me you would soon recognise the challenging behaviour of a hyperactive child. Not at all akin to the behaviour of enthusiastic and energetic children.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 16, 2019, 10:05:58 PM
hyperactive
adjective abnormally or extremely active.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 16, 2019, 10:12:00 PM
The description of Madeleine being enthusiastic and with lots of energy does not mean she can be described as hyperactive.
I agree. MM's natural temperament appears to have been full of energy. This by no means hyperactive. I've read all the wit stats from the nannies at OC and none report MM as hyperactive. This also applies to those who cared for MM in UK.
Hyperactive children are usually difficult to manage and there's zero evidence this applied to MM.
GM/KM were physically active people eg playing tennis and running. They both came from ordinary backgrounds but achieved academically to the extent they became medi doctors. Therefore the chances are their offspring would be 'energetic' both mentally and physically.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2019, 10:26:36 PM
hyperactive indicates an abnormal level of activity. Was Madeleine abnormal?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 16, 2019, 10:34:21 PM
No she was extremely active which doesn't mean she is abnormal. Bruce Lee was a hyperactive child and had the family nickname never sits still. Was he abnormal? They have more energy than others. Madeleine would never sleep in the day like other children.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 16, 2019, 10:40:02 PM
No she was extremely active which doesn't mean she is abnormal. Bruce Lee was a hyperactive child and had the family nickname never sits still. Was he abnormal? They have more energy than others. Madeleine would never sleep in the day like other children.
A nearly four year old would not normally take daytime naps.
None of those who cared for MM outside friends and family found her in any way difficult. There's zero evidence she was anything other than a normal little girl.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 16, 2019, 10:43:51 PM
A nearly four year old would not normally take daytime naps.
None of those who cared for MM outside friends and family found her in any way difficult. There's zero evidence she was anything other than a normal little girl.
The reason I said outside friends and family is that these people were able to observe MM objectively. But no one in MM's friends and family reported MM as hyperactive.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 16, 2019, 11:28:54 PM
No she was extremely active which doesn't mean she is abnormal. Bruce Lee was a hyperactive child and had the family nickname never sits still. Was he abnormal? They have more energy than others. Madeleine would never sleep in the day like other children.
You talk as if you knew Madeleine as a child personally. You didn’t. Try and remember that.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Lace on August 17, 2019, 11:46:15 AM
She was a hyperactive child - never stops, she keeps going like Kate said.
4078 'And how would you describe Madeleine''
Reply 'Erm, yeah, sweet, lovely, you know, sort of very sort of outgoing and, erm, you know, enthusiastic, bounds of energy, sort of memories of her as they're running round the bits when we sort of chased her, it was always 'I want more. I want more. Be a monster. Be a monster' and running round, yeah'.
No she was extremely active which doesn't mean she is abnormal. Bruce Lee was a hyperactive child and had the family nickname never sits still. Was he abnormal? They have more energy than others. Madeleine would never sleep in the day like other children.
From what I can gather of Madeleine she was able to sit still and listen, an hyperactive child wouldn't be able to sit and listen to a story for example, I believe Madeleine could, there was no mention of Madeleine running around being disruptive in the creche. Hyper means exactly that, unable to sit fidgeting, always on the go. Madeleine sat and listened to a story before bed didn't she? Not hyperactive at all.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 17, 2019, 02:29:10 PM
A nearly four year old would not normally take daytime naps.
None of those who cared for MM outside friends and family found her in any way difficult. There's zero evidence she was anything other than a normal little girl.
You talk as if you knew Madeleine as a child personally. You didn’t. Try and remember that.
I think her Auntie Trish who looked after and knew Madeleine very well knows a lot more about her than any of us. I don't make stuff up that I cannot back up so you remember that.
Madeleine, in particular, totally rejected the idea of sleeping during the day. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 17, 2019, 02:53:23 PM
I think her Auntie Trish who looked after and knew Madeleine very well knows a lot more about her than any of us. I don't make stuff up that I cannot back up so you remember that.
Madeleine, in particular, totally rejected the idea of sleeping during the day. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
Yes but when did MM totally reject the idea of sleeping during the day? Children of nearly 4 yoa would not normally take daytime naps.
Her aunt also describes MM as "serene" which doesn't go hand in hand with hyperactive.
I'm not really sure what you're driving at here pathfinder73? I don't understand how MM's personality and/or temperament has anything to do with her disappearance?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 17, 2019, 02:58:14 PM
Her Auntie Trish knew Madeleine since she her birth. She is not talking about her age when she disappeared. I can't believe I waste time responding to this nonsense lol.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 17, 2019, 03:06:00 PM
Her Auntie Trish knew Madeleine since she her birth. She is not talking about her age when she disappeared. I can't believe I waste time responding to this nonsense lol.
Forget all about nonsense and laughing out loud please transcribe the section you are referring to which will then allow us to to form our own views rather than rely on your interpretation.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 17, 2019, 03:47:35 PM
she was happy, bubbly, err relatively headstrong on previous meetings actually she seemed to have mellowed a little bit when we went on holiday...My Ella you know would, would, wouldn’t say boo to a goose you know when even a relative comes to the house and she’ll kind of hold your leg for a little while and I think Madeleine’s maybe not as shy as Ella https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RUSSELL-OBRIEN_ROGATORY.htm
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 17, 2019, 06:32:55 PM
I think her Auntie Trish who looked after and knew Madeleine very well knows a lot more about her than any of us. I don't make stuff up that I cannot back up so you remember that.
Madeleine, in particular, totally rejected the idea of sleeping during the day. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
Make sure you back up your statements with cites in your posts then, otherwise it looks like you’re making it up.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: pathfinder73 on August 18, 2019, 01:45:57 AM
I don't care what you think. If this case is solved you heard it all from me first.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2019, 06:36:47 AM
I don't care what you think. If this case is solved you heard it all from me first.
I don’t think so. There’s nothing original about your theory, I’ve been reading versions of it for years. It’s clear you believe you are right and therefore G-Unit’s assertion that no one here believed the McCanns were involved in Madeleine’s disappearance is quite wrong.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Lace on August 18, 2019, 09:03:21 AM
I think her Auntie Trish who looked after and knew Madeleine very well knows a lot more about her than any of us. I don't make stuff up that I cannot back up so you remember that.
Madeleine, in particular, totally rejected the idea of sleeping during the day. https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PATRICIA_CAMERON.htm
Mine must be hyperactive then especially my eldest, who got up at 5 in the morning pulling jigsaws out. Just a active curious mind I would say. Children are usually ready to ditch the sleeping during the day by about three mine did. Kate says even the twins weren't napping during the day, which meant it was easier for them to go to sleep at night.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 18, 2019, 11:22:09 AM
I don’t think so. There’s nothing original about your theory, I’ve been reading versions of it for years. It’s clear you believe you are right and therefore G-Unit’s assertion that no one here believed the McCanns were involved in Madeleine’s disappearance is quite wrong.
Did G-unit really say that? I'm rather surprised.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2019, 11:52:35 AM
It arose from a difference of opinion about what is meant by 'belief'. I use the word as meaning conviction with no factual basis; as in religion. Pathfinder's theory is evidence-based so it's not a belief in that sense.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Robittybob1 on August 18, 2019, 11:55:57 AM
It arose from a difference of opinion about what is meant by 'belief'. I use the word as meaning conviction with no factual basis; as in religion. Pathfinder's theory is evidence-based so it's not a belief in that sense.
Pathfinder's theory is evidence-based so it's not a belief in that sense. So you are backing that too?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: G-Unit on August 18, 2019, 12:09:12 PM
It arose from a difference of opinion about what is meant by 'belief'. I use the word as meaning conviction with no factual basis; as in religion. Pathfinder's theory is evidence-based so it's not a belief in that sense.
You really do make it up as you go along.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2019, 05:41:58 PM
In so far as it follows known evidence. Other theories often propose events for which there's no evidence, such as getaway cars.
What rubbish. Pathfinder’s theory is a badly woven tale based on what he thinks he knows, where is the evidence that the McCanns hid Madeleine’s body under a rock on the beach? Where is the evidence she was killed in some Tapas paedo sex ring?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: faithlilly on August 18, 2019, 08:57:40 PM
What rubbish. Pathfinder’s theory is a badly woven tale based on what he thinks he knows, where is the evidence that the McCanns hid Madeleine’s body under a rock on the beach? Where is the evidence she was killed in some Tapas paedo sex ring?
Where is the evidence that she was abducted?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 18, 2019, 09:00:54 PM
It’s whats kept you supporters going for 12 years so don’t knock it until......oh you already have.
You lot ? Who are ‘you lot’ ?
The lot who believe it’s just a matter of time before the McCanns get their comeuppance. You’re one of that lot aren’t you? You believe the Met are simply waiting for the final piece of the jigsaw falls into their lap before issuing the McCann arrest warrants don’t you? Tick-tock!
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Lace on August 19, 2019, 08:40:33 AM
What rubbish. Pathfinder’s theory is a badly woven tale based on what he thinks he knows, where is the evidence that the McCanns hid Madeleine’s body under a rock on the beach? Where is the evidence she was killed in some Tapas paedo sex ring?
It would have had to have been a massive rock!! Tapas paedo sex ring????? FGS. They went on holiday to Portugal with a mother in law, to indulge in a paedo sex ring, give me strength.
None of the children were said to have been traumatised, which I would expect if a child was used in such a way. Madeleine was happy all the nannies have said so, rushing out to greet her parents, would that be so if she had been abused? Neither was she showing signs of being continually sedated.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 19, 2019, 09:41:02 AM
Guys can we keep it civil please.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2019, 09:53:21 AM
The lot who believe it’s just a matter of time before the McCanns get their comeuppance. You’re one of that lot aren’t you? You believe the Met are simply waiting for the final piece of the jigsaw falls into their lap before issuing the McCann arrest warrants don’t you? Tick-tock!
I thought only clocks went tick tock....you live and learn.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 19, 2019, 10:03:26 AM
Faithlilly and Vertigo Swirl can you please keep on-topic and keep it civil. Posts that fall outside these parameters will be removed on sight. And if I find myself having to remove an inordinate amount of posts I will recommend temporary bans leading to the potential for a permanent ban.
I am fed-up, as I am sure others are, at having to wade through reams of posts which amount to nothing other than on-going spats and add nothing to the debate.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Mr Gray on August 19, 2019, 10:15:35 AM
Faithlilly and Vertigo Swirl can you please keep on-topic and keep it civil. Posts that fall outside these parameters will be removed on sight. And if I find myself having to remove an inordinate amount of posts I will recommend temporary bans leading to the potential for a permanent ban.
I am fed-up, as I am sure others are, at having to wade through reams of posts which amount to nothing other than on-going spats and add nothing to the debate.
I don't think you will have any support from John for any such bans..
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2019, 10:22:59 AM
Faithlilly and Vertigo Swirl can you please keep on-topic and keep it civil. Posts that fall outside these parameters will be removed on sight. And if I find myself having to remove an inordinate amount of posts I will recommend temporary bans leading to the potential for a permanent ban.
I am fed-up, as I am sure others are, at having to wade through reams of posts which amount to nothing other than on-going spats and add nothing to the debate.
Perhaps you could suggest to John that he reinstates the ignore button ? Any idea why he did away with it ? The forum was a lot quieter then. Perhaps that was the problem?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 19, 2019, 10:29:02 AM
Perhaps you could suggest to John that he reinstates the ignore button ? Any idea why he did away with it ? The forum was a lot quieter then. Perhaps that was the problem?
I do not know the history of the ignore button but thank you for your suggestion which I will take forward.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2019, 10:32:15 AM
I agree with Davel, I don’t think you’d have any support either.
Well hopefully we're not going to get to the stage of temporary bans let alone permanent bans but the idea that I'm going to spend an inordinate amount of my time as an unpaid volunteer editing/deleting posts that are either off-topic or amount to nothing more than spats is not going to happen, period.
I joined this site to learn about the case, hear different views etc. I don't have a problem that you and others here believe the parents are involved. What I have a problem with is mindless spats and off-topic posts where there's not even a tenuous link to the thread.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2019, 10:55:34 AM
Well hopefully we're not going to get to the stage of temporary bans let alone permanent bans but the idea that I'm going to spend an inordinate amount of my time as an unpaid volunteer editing/deleting posts that are either off-topic or amount to nothing more than spats is not going to happen, period.
I joined this site to learn about the case, hear different views etc. I don't have a problem that you and others here believe the parents are involved. What I have a problem with is mindless spats and off-topic posts where there's not even a tenuous link to the thread.
You are an unpaid volunteer so lose nothing by leaving...you have decided to stay. Why that is when it causes you so much stress only you can know.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Erngath on August 19, 2019, 10:56:15 AM
I wish there was an ignore button in real life. @)(++(*
It does seem to be a ridiculous idea to have an ignore button on a form where all ideas and opinions should be available to read but not necessarily given any response.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 19, 2019, 11:02:08 AM
You are an unpaid volunteer so lose nothing by leaving...you have decided to stay. Why that is when it causes you so much stress only you can know.
Who said anything about leaving? Who said anything about stress? I don't mind the dual role of poster and moderator. But my prime objective is to learn all about the cases so if I find myself having to spend an inordinate amount of time editing/removing posts having asked those who fall foul of the rules to cease then I will need to take some other form of action.
If you wish to discuss further then please PM me.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2019, 02:54:50 PM
I thought only clocks went tick tock....you live and learn.
As someone who has been closely following the case for as long as you have, on social media in particular, you simply cannot have failed to notice how many times and how often the phrase "tick-tock" has been used by those deluded enough to believe that the net is closing in on the McCanns. See also "softly, softly catchee monkey".
Oh dear, I guess that's me banned. 8(8-))
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 19, 2019, 03:05:10 PM
As someone who has been closely following the case for as long as you have, on social media in particular, you simply cannot have failed to notice how many times and how often the phrase "tick-tock" has been used by those deluded enough to believe that the net is closing in on the McCanns. See also "softly, softly catchee monkey".
Oh dear, I guess that's me banned. 8(8-))
So long as you're not suggesting Faithlilly is deluded just because he/she believes the McCanns were responsible no problem.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2019, 03:09:02 PM
So long as you're not suggesting Faithlilly is deluded just because he/she believes the McCanns were responsible no problem.
Deluded for believing the McCanns are about to be arrested in the near future, a position which I believe she has held for many years. But I thought I was going to be banned for being off -topic? Whatever.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Holly Goodhead on August 19, 2019, 03:15:26 PM
Deluded for believing the McCanns are about to be arrested in the near future, a position which I believe she has held for many years. But I thought I was going to be banned for being off -topic? Whatever.
Its up to Faithlilly what positions he/she holds.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: faithlilly on August 19, 2019, 03:16:06 PM
As someone who has been closely following the case for as long as you have, on social media in particular, you simply cannot have failed to notice how many times and how often the phrase "tick-tock" has been used by those deluded enough to believe that the net is closing in on the McCanns. See also "softly, softly catchee monkey".
Oh dear, I guess that's me banned. 8(8-))
Social media ?
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 19, 2019, 03:19:12 PM
Perhaps you could suggest to John that he reinstates the ignore button ? Any idea why he did away with it ? The forum was a lot quieter then. Perhaps that was the problem?
Yes, reinstate it John.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2019, 07:32:36 PM
No because some post a lot and take up a whole page of rubbish.
I prefer to debate the theories and stick to the threads. We could have a general chat page/room if folks want to snipe and chat about events which interest them.
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Mr Gray on August 20, 2019, 07:44:28 PM
No because some post a lot and take up a whole page of rubbish.
I prefer to debate the theories and stick to the threads. We could have a general chat page/room if folks want to snipe and chat about events which interest them.
simply ignore them...thats what I do
Title: Re: Sleeping Habits Of The McCann Children And Sedation
Post by: Vertigo Swirl on August 20, 2019, 08:52:08 PM
No because some post a lot and take up a whole page of rubbish.
I prefer to debate the theories and stick to the threads. We could have a general chat page/room if folks want to snipe and chat about events which interest them.
Perhaps you could take your off-topic complaint elsewhere? We have important stuff about sedation and the sleeping habits of the McCann children to investigate here.