UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on April 05, 2013, 04:07:39 PM
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It is my understanding that the Portuguese Police wanted to come to the UK to interview the Tapas 9 but this ultimately didn't happen as Leicestershire Police did it after receiving a list of questions from Portugal.
I do apologise if this is wrong.
My question is this. Why did the Portuguese Police not come to the UK? Were they prevented from doing so?
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It is my understanding that the Portuguese Police wanted to come to the UK to interview the Tapas 9 but this ultimately didn't happen as Leicestershire Police did it after receiving a list of questions from Portugal.
I do apologise if this is wrong.
My question is this. Why did the Portuguese Police not come to the UK? Were they prevented from doing so?
No. Various members of The PJ did go to England to witness The Rogatory Interviews. The Leicester Police conducted The Interviews due to the language problem, but there appears to have been a Translator present.
Mr. Rebelo, then in charge of The Case, left in a hurry half way through these interviews because yet more leaks were appearing in The Portuguese Press.
Interestingly enough, Mr. Rebelo left before David Payne was interviewed. He of the scurrilous accusations of Paedophilia which have never been proven.
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There is no legal procedure for Portuguese police to interview in England - they have to use rogatory interviews carried out by English police; they must provide a set of questions and are allowed to ask limited supplementaries via the UK interviewers. This is a voluntary process- no one can be forced to present themselves for interview.
WHen this process was being organised, the [ censored word ]s were jumping up and down celebrating their false view that the police would be arresting the McCanns And the Tapas group, dragging them to police cells, and coercing the "truth" out of the- they knew nothing of the law and laughed at my posts saying that Portuguese police would be observers, written notice of questions were required in advance, the interviewees would be legally represented, would not be compelled to attend or remain at interview and could leave at any time if they wished. All true.
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It is my understanding that the Portuguese Police wanted to come to the UK to interview the Tapas 9 but this ultimately didn't happen as Leicestershire Police did it after receiving a list of questions from Portugal.
I do apologise if this is wrong.
My question is this. Why did the Portuguese Police not come to the UK? Were they prevented from doing so?
Madeleine McCann: Portuguese police fly to UK
Kate and Gerry McCann
Image 1 of 2
Telegraph TV: Portuguese experts have flown to Britain over the McCanns' DNA samples
By Caroline Gammell and Fiona Govan
3:46PM GMT 28 Nov 2007
Portuguese investigators trying to solve the disappearance of Madeleine McCann have flown to the UK ahead of their first face-to-face meeting with British police and forensic scientists working on the case.
They will discuss the DNA evidence gathered in connection with the missing four-year-old, including blood and hair samples collected from the apartment where she vanished and the car hired 25 days later by her parents.
It is the first time all three agencies have met in Britain, more than 200 days after Madeleine disappeared from Praia da Luz in May.
The four-strong team from Portugal - thought to include a senior detective, two police forensic experts and Francisco Corte Real, the vice president of the National Pathology Institute - touched down at East Midlands airport at midday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1570807/Madeleine-McCann-Portuguese-police-fly-to-UK.html
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There are photos of the PT team arriving at the airport floating somewhere on the Internet.
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A pic of the PT team arriving in the UK here:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lWXrpwC28yU/R5gwQBKSQdI/AAAAAAAABP0/XRUwQh7_dYk/s320/Luis+Viriato,+Francisco+Corte-Real,+Ricardo+Paiva+and+Fernando+Viegas.jpg)
Portuguese investigators arrive in UK 28 November 2007:
(from left) Luis Viriato, Francisco Côrte-Real, Ricardo Paiva and Fernando Viegas.
The four-strong Portuguese team met five experts from the FSS at Leicestershire Police headquarters on 29 November 2007 to review and interpret the DNA results.
The team was led by Francisco Côrte-Real, the vice-president of the National Pathology Institute. With him were Det Insp Ricardo Paiva and police scientists Fernando Viegas and Luís Viriato.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccanns-investigative-team.html
(Courtesy blog: Joana Morais).
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@Carana
THat visit was separate from the interviews withthe witnesses which was what was being asked about.
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@Carana
THat visit was separate from the interviews withthe witnesses which was what was being asked about.
I don't think so.
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@Carana
THat visit was separate from the interviews withthe witnesses which was what was being asked about.
Yes, correct, my mistake. I had the Portuguese team visiting the FSS visit in mind, which was much earlier.
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Thank you for clarifying this guys. 8((()*/
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“Portuguese detectives set to quiz ‘Tapas Seven’
Portuguese detectives set to quiz 'Tapas Seven' in London about Madeleine 's disappearance
By Vanessa Allen, David Wilkes and Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 10:09 AM on 07th April 2008
Portuguese detectives arrive in Britain today ahead of fresh police interviews of Kate and Gerry McCann's friends.
The so-called Tapas Seven who dined with the couple on the night their daughter Madeleine disappeared are among a list of 24 people due to be grilled by detectives over the next four days.
But the McCanns themselves will not face new interrogations and are due to leave Britain during the Portuguese police visit.
Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell insisted the couple were on a pre-arranged visit to Brussels to lobby Euro MPs for a better alert system for missing children, and denied the trip was a "smokescreen".
He said they welcomed the latest police move and would be willing to be interviewed again if it would help the investigation.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1008821/Portuguese-detectives-set-quiz-Tapas-Seven-London-Madeleine-s-disappearance.html#ixzz2PensMDN1
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Kate also mentions that the PJ went to Leicester for the interviews in her book, P.298 (hardback).
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@ Eleanor
Another myth. We have no idea why Rebelo left early. Perhaps he heard that the McCanns and their friends had tightened up their story at the November meeting in Rothley and therefore decided nothing of value would come from the interviews ? Truth is we simply don't know.
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@ Eleanor
Another myth. We have no idea why Rebelo left early. Perhaps he heard that the McCanns and their friends had tightened up their story at the November meeting in Rothley and therefore decided nothing of value would come from the interviews ? Truth is we simply don't know.
There is do doubt that more leaks started while he was out of the country.
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@ Eleanor
Another myth. We have no idea why Rebelo left early. Perhaps he heard that the McCanns and their friends had tightened up their story at the November meeting in Rothley and therefore decided nothing of value would come from the interviews ? Truth is we simply don't know.
There is do doubt that more leaks started while he was out of the country.
No myths come to mind post-Rebelo.
A leak was the crying story (in the Spanish press?) whilst the PJ Rebelo team were in the UK for the rogs and the McCanns were in Brussels.
Was that a post-GA leak, or one leaked during GA's tenure and held by someone for a rainy (media sunshiny) day?
I doubt that we will ever know.
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@ Eleanor
Another myth. We have no idea why Rebelo left early. Perhaps he heard that the McCanns and their friends had tightened up their story at the November meeting in Rothley and therefore decided nothing of value would come from the interviews ? Truth is we simply don't know.
There is do doubt that more leaks started while he was out of the country.
That is simply nonsense. There is no way to know when the journalist, and I assume you are talking about the 'crying' story, acquired his story and from whom. It is possible that the McCanns themselves leaked it to discredit the PJ.
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@ Eleanor
Another myth. We have no idea why Rebelo left early. Perhaps he heard that the McCanns and their friends had tightened up their story at the November meeting in Rothley and therefore decided nothing of value would come from the interviews ? Truth is we simply don't know.
There is do doubt that more leaks started while he was out of the country.
That is simply nonsense. There is no way to know when the journalist, and I assume you are talking about the 'crying' story, acquired his story and from whom. It is possible that the McCanns themselves leaked it to discredit the PJ.
Oh and they leaked it on the very day when they were making an appeal to the European Parliament as well did they, so that it would also discredit themselves I presume?
When you resort to such idiotic claims then you really are becoming truly desperate.
Why would the McCanns, please do explain, attempt to discredit themselves when making such an important appeal?
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@ gilet
I'm was not stating it as a fact, I was merely pointing out there are other explanations than those supporters would readily chose to believe. By the time the article was published there were many people who knew about Madeleine crying on the Wednesday night, from the McCann's friends to Leceistershire police officers, so to state that the story was leaked by the PJ as a fact is simply wrong and, at this juncture, unprovable.
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@ gilet
I'm was not stating it as a fact, I was merely pointing out there are other explanations than those supporters would readily chose to believe. By the time the article was published there were many people who knew about Madeleine crying on the Wednesday night, from the McCann's friends to Leceistershire police officers, so to state that the story was leaked by the PJ as a fact is simply wrong and, at this juncture, unprovable.
I did not say you stated it as fact.
I just pointed out that to even suggest such a thing was a sign you either did not understand what you were implying or was plain stupid as the idea of the McCanns, as you suggested, leaking that to discredit themselves in front of the European Parliament is plain ridiculous.
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There is no legal procedure for Portuguese police to interview in England - they have to use rogatory interviews carried out by English police; they must provide a set of questions and are allowed to ask limited supplementaries via the UK interviewers. This is a voluntary process- no one can be forced to present themselves for interview.
WHen this process was being organised, the [ censored word ]s were jumping up and down celebrating their false view that the police would be arresting the McCanns And the Tapas group, dragging them to police cells, and coercing the "truth" out of the- they knew nothing of the law and laughed at my posts saying that Portuguese police would be observers, written notice of questions were required in advance, the interviewees would be legally represented, would not be compelled to attend or remain at interview and could leave at any time if they wished. All true.
Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
But we have experience with the lack of co-operation from the UK when their subjects are in trouble with our laws. So it was not a surprise when the Home Office took almost an year to agree to those disgraceful interviews since in 2007 it already had practically denied to provide information about the suspects.
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There is no legal procedure for Portuguese police to interview in England - they have to use rogatory interviews carried out by English police; they must provide a set of questions and are allowed to ask limited supplementaries via the UK interviewers. This is a voluntary process- no one can be forced to present themselves for interview.
WHen this process was being organised, the [ censored word ]s were jumping up and down celebrating their false view that the police would be arresting the McCanns And the Tapas group, dragging them to police cells, and coercing the "truth" out of the- they knew nothing of the law and laughed at my posts saying that Portuguese police would be observers, written notice of questions were required in advance, the interviewees would be legally represented, would not be compelled to attend or remain at interview and could leave at any time if they wished. All true.
Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
But we have experience with the lack of co-operation from the UK when their subjects are in trouble with our laws. So it was not a surprise when the Home Office took almost an year to agree to those disgraceful interviews since in 2007 it already had practically denied to provide information about the suspects.
Pure speculation on your part. There is no evidence he considered the interviews a joke.
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There is no legal procedure for Portuguese police to interview in England - they have to use rogatory interviews carried out by English police; they must provide a set of questions and are allowed to ask limited supplementaries via the UK interviewers. This is a voluntary process- no one can be forced to present themselves for interview.
WHen this process was being organised, the [ censored word ]s were jumping up and down celebrating their false view that the police would be arresting the McCanns And the Tapas group, dragging them to police cells, and coercing the "truth" out of the- they knew nothing of the law and laughed at my posts saying that Portuguese police would be observers, written notice of questions were required in advance, the interviewees would be legally represented, would not be compelled to attend or remain at interview and could leave at any time if they wished. All true.
Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
But we have experience with the lack of co-operation from the UK when their subjects are in trouble with our laws. So it was not a surprise when the Home Office took almost an year to agree to those disgraceful interviews since in 2007 it already had practically denied to provide information about the suspects.
Hi Luz... regarding your statement "But we have experience with the lack of co-operation from the UK when their subjects are in trouble with our laws." Could you expand on this please? (Sorry, haven't quite got the hang of the quoting function yet!)
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There is no legal procedure for Portuguese police to interview in England - they have to use rogatory interviews carried out by English police; they must provide a set of questions and are allowed to ask limited supplementaries via the UK interviewers. This is a voluntary process- no one can be forced to present themselves for interview.
WHen this process was being organised, the [ censored word ]s were jumping up and down celebrating their false view that the police would be arresting the McCanns And the Tapas group, dragging them to police cells, and coercing the "truth" out of the- they knew nothing of the law and laughed at my posts saying that Portuguese police would be observers, written notice of questions were required in advance, the interviewees would be legally represented, would not be compelled to attend or remain at interview and could leave at any time if they wished. All true.
Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
But we have experience with the lack of co-operation from the UK when their subjects are in trouble with our laws. So it was not a surprise when the Home Office took almost an year to agree to those disgraceful interviews since in 2007 it already had practically denied to provide information about the suspects.
Pure speculation on your part. There is no evidence he considered the interviews a joke.
If you read the interviews' scripts and don't think they were a miserable police work than you should reconsider either re-take an exam on Interpretation or use a mask.
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There is no legal procedure for Portuguese police to interview in England - they have to use rogatory interviews carried out by English police; they must provide a set of questions and are allowed to ask limited supplementaries via the UK interviewers. This is a voluntary process- no one can be forced to present themselves for interview.
WHen this process was being organised, the [ censored word ]s were jumping up and down celebrating their false view that the police would be arresting the McCanns And the Tapas group, dragging them to police cells, and coercing the "truth" out of the- they knew nothing of the law and laughed at my posts saying that Portuguese police would be observers, written notice of questions were required in advance, the interviewees would be legally represented, would not be compelled to attend or remain at interview and could leave at any time if they wished. All true.
Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
But we have experience with the lack of co-operation from the UK when their subjects are in trouble with our laws. So it was not a surprise when the Home Office took almost an year to agree to those disgraceful interviews since in 2007 it already had practically denied to provide information about the suspects.
Pure speculation on your part. There is no evidence he considered the interviews a joke.
If you read the interviews' scripts and don't think they were a miserable police work than you should reconsider either re-take an exam on Interpretation or use a mask.
The content of the interviews has no bearing on my point at all.
Your comment about Rebelo considering them a joke remains pure speculation and is somewhat ironic after your jokes about the McCanns. Do you remember the joke about a fire?
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No Gilet, I don't recall any fire. And as far as Mr. Rebelo considering the interviews, let's say, not a joke (this is my expression) but meaningless it is proven by the fact that they were totally discarded in the report that he sent to the General Attorney.
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No Gilet, I don't recall any fire. And as far as Mr. Rebelo considering the interviews, let's say, not a joke (this is my expression) but meaningless it is proven by the fact that they were totally discarded in the report that he sent to the General Attorney.
You stated, "Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke..."
I stated that was speculation.
You have offered no evidence to the contrary.
I was absolutely right.
This thread is not about the content of the interviews but about the Police involvement. If you wish to start a topic about the content please do but don't try and use it as a distraction here to excuse the fact that your comment about Rebelo was unfounded speculation.
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No Gilet, I don't recall any fire. And as far as Mr. Rebelo considering the interviews, let's say, not a joke (this is my expression) but meaningless it is proven by the fact that they were totally discarded in the report that he sent to the General Attorney.
Demanding The Rogatory Interviews was just window dressing before the case was shelved. Allegedly.
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Hi Luz... regarding your statement "But we have experience with the lack of co-operation from the UK when their subjects are in trouble with our laws." Could you expand on this please.
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Hi Rachel,
sorry I haven't responded to you, and not wanting to go astray of the topic, but just to satisfy your curiosity...
A few years prior to the McCann incident there was a murder by a British citizen that had double nationality, he was also from India (I'm sorry I can't remember his name and so I can't give you links to check it up) .
He was convicted for murder but escaped and went to the UK. The Portuguese authorities immediately requested his extradiction but didn't receive any answer from the Home Office until that individual had gone to India with the help of the British authorities.
More recently, and in this case it was a portuguese man, there was a request for the return of a convicted felon - Vale e Azevedo - it took more than 5 years to have him back to serve his remaining 7 years prison in Portugal, but only after he committed crimes in the UK.
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Luz does seem a little racist.
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Hi Rachel,
sorry I haven't responded to you, and not wanting to go astray of the topic, but just to satisfy your curiosity...
A few years prior to the McCann incident there was a murder by a British citizen that had double nationality, he was also from India (I'm sorry I can't remember his name and so I can't give you links to check it up) .
He was convicted for murder but escaped and went to the UK. The Portuguese authorities immediately requested his extradiction but didn't receive any answer from the Home Office until that individual had gone to India with the help of the British authorities.
More recently, and in this case it was a portuguese man, there was a request for the return of a convicted felon - Vale e Azevedo - it took more than 5 years to have him back to serve his remaining 7 years prison in Portugal, but only after he committed crimes in the UK.
Luz, thanks for the info.
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So where are we on this one?
Do we agree that members of the PJ did indeed visit the UK to attend at least some rogatory interviews?
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So where are we on this one?
Do we agree that members of the PJ did indeed visit the UK to attend at least some rogatory interviews?
FRom memory there were PJ officers observing and asking for supplementaries in all the rogatories. They were not allowed to address thewitnesses directly.
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Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
I'm curious about what I placed in bold, Luz. Doesn't this happen in Portugal?
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Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
I'm curious about what I placed in bold, Luz. Doesn't this happen in Portugal? 8((()*/
AS I pointed out atthe time ( to much [ censored word ] disparagement) they would have been allowed to review their evidence and halt the inte reviews at any time as they were not under any compulsionto give evidence.
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Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
I'm curious about what I placed in bold, Luz. Doesn't this happen in Portugal? 8((()*/
AS I pointed out atthe time ( to much [ censored word ] disparagement) they would have been allowed to review their evidence and halt the inte reviews at any time as they were not under any compulsionto give evidence.
Debunker, my original post did not contain a smiley. I presume that this was a keyboard error of punctuation.
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@ Debunker, on the substance of my question, I am still interested in a reply from Luz.
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Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
Odd as I don't use smilies.
I am on a small tabletso Icould have dragged my finger.
Sorry.
I'm curious about what I placed in bold, Luz. Doesn't this happen in Portugal? 8((()*/
AS I pointed out atthe time ( to much [ censored word ] disparagement) they would have been allowed to review their evidence and halt the inte reviews at any time as they were not under any compulsionto give evidence.
Debunker, my original post did not contain a smiley. I presume that this was a keyboard error of punctuation.
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There is no legal procedure for Portuguese police to interview in England - they have to use rogatory interviews carried out by English police; they must provide a set of questions and are allowed to ask limited supplementaries via the UK interviewers. This is a voluntary process- no one can be forced to present themselves for interview.
WHen this process was being organised, the [ censored word ]s were jumping up and down celebrating their false view that the police would be arresting the McCanns And the Tapas group, dragging them to police cells, and coercing the "truth" out of the- they knew nothing of the law and laughed at my posts saying that Portuguese police would be observers, written notice of questions were required in advance, the interviewees would be legally represented, would not be compelled to attend or remain at interview and could leave at any time if they wished. All true.
Mr. Rebelo left because the interviews were a joke (as can be seen in the case files) where the LP agents told the interviewees what they had said before and asked if they maintained or changed their versions. Some even revealed what their spouses had testified in order to make them correct their versions...it was absolutely shameful.
But we have experience with the lack of co-operation from the UK when their subjects are in trouble with our laws. So it was not a surprise when the Home Office took almost an year to agree to those disgraceful interviews since in 2007 it already had practically denied to provide information about the suspects.
An excellent post Luz, a pity you spoiled it all by reverting to name calling later on...naughty!
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The information demanded was too intrusive, and The PJ were advised to apply for less intrusive information. They never did.
The Rogatory Interviews were delayed because The Portuguese Applications were not legally correct. This is important because any information obtained from an illegal application is nul and void and cannot be used in a Court of Law.
Mr. Smith was not subjected to a Rogatory Interview because the application for his presence was made to The UK. Mr. Smith is a Citizen of Eire and therefor not a UK Citizen.