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Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on April 05, 2013, 04:23:31 PM
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It is clear that the Forensic Science Service in the UK (now disbanded) made a complete mess of the DNA analyses in this case. Furthermore, their leaking of the initial report was so unprofessional and a complete shambles.
The evidence shows that the FSS initially leaked information to the Press to the effect that Madeleine's DNA had been found in the Renault Scenic hire car which had been hired by the McCanns weeks after Madeleine's disappearance. This lead directly to the McCanns becoming official suspects in Portugal known as 'arguidos'.
It is suspected that the debacle over the Omagh Bomb case led to some reappraisal of the conclusions in the DNA analysis and much reconsideration of the Low Copy Number (LCN) techniques.
What was initially leaked as positive results then suddenly became erroneous and when the official Report was delivered to the Portuguese Authorities it became apparent that the results were not as cut and dry as was originally reported.
The bottom line was and still is that there is NO Evidence that Madeleine's' DNA was found in the hire car.
Following this revelation the Portuguese Police had lost their smoking gun and had no choice but to revoke the arguido status afforded the McCanns.
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The evidence shows that the FSS initially leaked information to the Press
Could you please cite the evidence for this, thanks.
Thank you. I was just about to ask for the same.
I am particularly interested in the evidence for the claim that the FSS leaked information to the press. I have not seen anything to suggest that before but I may have simply missed it.
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It wasn't The FFS that leaked the information. Their vastly misunderstood analysis came from elements of The PJ, although no one knows who.
Whoever leaked what they thought had been found, simply did not understand Forensics or DNA.
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It is clear that the Forensic Science Service in the UK (now disbanded) made a complete mess of the DNA analyses in this case. Furthermore, their leaking of the initial report was so unprofessional and a complete shambles.
The evidence shows that the FSS initially leaked information to the Press to the effect that Madeleine's DNA had been found in the Renault Scenic hire car which had been hired by the McCanns weeks after Madeleine's disappearance. This lead directly to the McCanns becoming official suspects in Portugal known as 'arguidos'.
It is suspected that the debacle over the Omagh Bomb case led to some reappraisal of the conclusions in the DNA analysis and much reconsideration of the Low Copy Number (LCN) techniques.
What was initially leaked as positive results then suddenly became erroneous and when the official Report was delivered to the
Portuguese Authorities it became apparent that the results were not as cut and dry as was originally reported.
The bottom line was and still is that there is NO Evidence that Madeleine's' DNA was found in the hire car.
Following this revelation the Portuguese Police had lost their smoking gun and had no choice but to revoke the arguido status afforded the McCanns.
Which source are you using for that information?
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It wasn't The FFS that leaked the information. Their vastly misunderstood analysis came from elements of The PJ, although no one knows who.
Whoever leaked what they thought had been found, simply did not understand Forensics or DNA.
Could you please cite the evidence for this, thanks
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1
It is clear that the Forensic Science Service in the UK (now disbanded) made a complete mess of the DNA analyses in this case. Furthermore, their leaking of the initial report was so unprofessional and a complete shambles.
2a The evidence shows that the FSS initially leaked information to the Press to the effect that Madeleine's DNA had been found in the Renault Scenic hire car which had been hired by the McCanns weeks after Madeleine's disappearance. This lead directly to the McCanns becoming official suspects in Portugal known as 'arguidos'.
It is suspected that the debacle over the Omagh Bomb case led to some reappraisal of the conclusions in the DNA analysis and much reconsideration of the Low Copy Number (LCN) techniques.
2b What was initially leaked as positive results then suddenly became erroneous and when the official Report was delivered to the Portuguese Authorities it became apparent that the results were not as cut and dry as was originally reported.
The bottom line was and still is that there is NO Evidence that Madeleine's' DNA was found in the hire car.
Following this revelation the Portuguese Police had lost their smoking gun and had no choice but to revoke the arguido status afforded the McCanns.
1 What makes you think that the FSS made a mess?
2 What makes you think that the FSS leaked?
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It wasn't The FFS that leaked the information. Their vastly misunderstood analysis came from elements of The PJ, although no one knows who.
Whoever leaked what they thought had been found, simply did not understand Forensics or DNA.
Could you please cite the evidence for this, thanks
No. Read The Files.
There is no evidence to suggest that The FSS leaked anything. They sent their analysis to The PJ who then misread it.
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According to this press report the source of the DNA match story seems to be the Portuguese police and the Portuguese media. http://metro.co.uk/2007/09/11/maddys-body-fluids-found-in-car-boot-109048/
Thank you for that.
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Going on memory I think that there was a courtesy call from the FSS to the PJ which was over-interpreted by them. A myth started which was proved wrong in the final report..
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I have never found anything reliable to suggest that any leaks had come from the FSS...
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I have never found anything reliable to suggest that any leaks had come from the FSS...
I have never found anything at all, reliable or otherwise, beyond the spurious forum and social media postings of various McCann denigrators. When asked those people have always failed to provide any evidence of the claim.
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So lets see, the Portuguese Press and then the British Press carry stories proclaiming that the materials tested positive for Madeleine McCann and the FSS don't deny it?
Are we to believe they made the whole thing up then?
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The FSS had a commercial and professional relationship with the PJ and would be unlikely to speak publicly about the results.
THe entire initial report is available here
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id268.html
WEll down the page, titled
The 'Second' Forensic Report by John Robert Lowe, 18 June 2008
OUTROS APENSOS I, volume
DAted 18 June 2008
NOwhere does it say that Madeleine's DNA was identified.
IN fact it concludes
"Conclusion
In my opinion, the laboratory results that were attained did not help to clarify whether or not the DNA results obtained within the scope of this case were from Madeleine McCann."
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Yesterday an FSS spokesman said: "The tests remain ongoing...."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-496816/Madeleine-McCanns-clear-DNA-evidence-proves-inconclusive.html#ixzz2PfFmOaTS
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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The final FSS report confirmed that no conclusive evidence was available.
AN email was sent from Mr Lowe of the FSS to Stuart Prior a police coordinator with Leicester police
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm#p10p2615. At 2617-2623
Task Portugal
From: "Prior Stuart" <Stuart.Prior@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk>
To: "Task Portugal" <Task.Portugal@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk>
Sent: 04 September 2007 10:14
Subject: FW: Op Task - in Confidence
From: Lowe, Mr J R [mailto:John.Lowe@fss.pnn.police.uk
Sent: 03 September 2007 15:01
To: stuart.prior@leicestershire.pnn.police.uk
Subject: Op Task - In Confidence
Stuart
Firstly, here are the last three results you are expecting
An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.
There is no evidence to support the view that Madeline MCCann contributed DNA to the swab 3B.
A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion.
Why - ...
Well lets look at the question that is being asked
"Is there DNA from Madeline on the swab "
It would be very simple to say "yes" simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.
What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine and legitimate; because Madeline has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeline merely appears to match the result by chance. The individual components in Madeline's profile are not unique to her, it is the specific combination of 19 components that makes her profile unique above all others. Elements of Madeline's profile are also present within the the profiles of many of the scientists here in Birmingham, myself included. it's important to stress that 50% of Madeline's profile will be shared with each parent. It is not possible in a mixture of more than two people, to determine or evaluate which specific DNA components pair with each other. Namely, we cannot separate the components out into 3 individual DNA profiles.
Therefore, we cannot answer the question: is the match genuine or is it a chance match.
The same applies to any result that is quoted as being too complex for meaningful inclusion/interpretation
What questions will we never be able to answer with LCN DNA profiling -
When was the DNA deposited -
How was the DNA deposited -
What body fluid(s) does the DIVA originate from -
Was a crime committed -
These, along with all other results, will be formalised in a final report
Please don't hesitate to contact me if you require any further assistance
kind regards
John
John Lowe Forensic Scientist
Major Incidents Team
Priory House
Inter Facility: 703 6973
External: 0121 607 6973
Fax: 0121 6221807
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The PJ received the above email from Stuart Prior but misinterpreted it, maybe because of translation difficulties.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm#p10p2615
AT 2615-2616
Letter dated 11 September regarding FSS report received by PJ
on on 4 September from Leicester Police, citing 15/19 matches of Madeleine DNA
profile
This serves to add [to the case file] a laboratory examination report prepared
in England, written in English and translated into Portuguese, delivered to this
police force on 4 September 2007 by English police officer Stuart Prior.
This laboratory report tells about the examinations made of two trace evidence
recoveries, one behind the living room sofa in apartment 5A and the other in the
boot area of the vehicle used by the McCann family, hired [by them] from the end of May this year.
In some of these recoveries (samples) DNA was found whose components are also
found in the profile of Madeleine McCann.
With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed
DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann.
In the sample collected in the boot area of the vehicle, 15 of the identified
DNA components coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann, this of [having] 19 components.
Portimao, 11 September 2007
Inspector
Joao Carlos
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In conclusion, the FSS never made any claim that Madeleine' DNA had been identified.
THe PJ did not understand the reports.
ANother myth debunked.
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In conclusion, the FSS never made any claim that Madeleine' DNA had been identified.
THe PJ did not understand the reports.
ANother myth debunked.
The D.N.A. was inconclusive.
Insufficient genetic markers.
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But the PJ misunderstood the results and worked on the basis that 15/19 of Madeleine's DNA was found in the car.
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So lets see, the Portuguese Press and then the British Press carry stories proclaiming that the materials tested positive for Madeleine McCann and the FSS don't deny it?
Are we to believe they made the whole thing up then?
Who is "they", though?
Here's one of Hideho's videos: Martin Brunt standing outside what appears to be Portimão police station, reporting on the forensic test "results".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3HQ74Rfdbk
The only thing wrong with Brunty's report is that, well, there's nothing right in it. Poor old Brunty. Someone fed him "what police say is the most damning evidence" that simply doesn't correspond to what is actually in the Lowe report.
Brunt:
"I've learnt some important detail of the forensic test results and they rather explain perhaps why the Portuguese, the Portuguese police are so confident in their theory that Madeleine's parents - one or other of them - played a part in their daughter's death.
The details are these: that the samples that came back last week via (by?) after British tests in the UK, the samples produced three matches of Madeleine's DNA.
Now, in the apartment, police found one full match on a window sill - a full match of Madeleine's DNA. That's perhaps not so important because Madeleine, of course, had been staying there for the best part of a fortnight with her parents.
Now, in the hire car, which was hired five weeks after Madeleine's disappearance, the tests have showed [sic] a partial match of Madeleine's DNA, which might be explained by transfer onto clothes or other paraphernalia that the family were still using five weeks on.
But this is the crucial thing: in the car, the scientists have also found another, a second, full match and police say that is the most damning evidence that's been returned by these forensic test results. And it shows, as far as they're concerned, the presence of Madeleine's body in the hire car five weeks - at least five weeks - after she disappeared. And as I said, this begins to explain, I think, why the police are so adamant about their theory, and this, of course, is part of the evidence that the prosecutor here will start considering, we think, in the morning." .
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Can we now enter the title of this thread as a further myth in the appropriate section.
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So where are we on this issue?
I still can't find any evidence of a UK forensic* botch-up on this case.
Even Corte-Real seems to have agreed concerning the supposedly "damning" boot result (according to Amaral's documentary).
33.09 – Dr Francisco Corte-Real, Vice President, National Forensics Institute: "When those 15 alleles are included in a mix, where beyond those 15 we can have another 30 or 40 alleles, that means that it includes biological material from several persons. And there it can be much more difficult, much more inconclusive, because we may have a mixture from several persons, including hypothetically, if that happens, we may have several persons from the same family, and that may even give us the idea, in a way, that a certain missing person may be included, and that is not conclusive."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id225.html
* Edited to clarify.
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Re: Why did the FSS in the UK botch the DNA tests?
Simples .... They didn't.
Amaral and co botched the results up. Either they didn't want to accept the true meaning .. or they didn't understand what the readings meant
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It is yet another myth.
John - when are we going to see some decisions on proven myths, or at least threads to propose them being labeled formally as myths.
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There are a lot of files NOT available in the files released July 2008
Were ALL the forensic details released?
This suggests they were not.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/english-in-portimo-to-defend-secrecy.html
English in Portimão to defend secrecy - Correio da Manhã
18 July 2008 | Posted by astro Leave a Comment
‘CM’ reveals – 15 of the 19 genetic markers found
English want secrecy
The McCanns want to hide the data from the Birmingham laboratory
One magistrate and two policemen, including Stuart Prior, responsible for the connection with the PJ, were at the Court in Portimão yesterday, trying to convince the Public Ministry prosecutor Magalhães e Menezes not to release the entire process of the disappearance of Madeleine from the judicial secrecy. One of the situations that the English want is that the preliminary report from the Birmingham lab, which mentions that “15 of the 19 genetic markers that were found in a residue that was collected from the couple’s car’s boot, are a match [with the missing child]” is not made public. Their pretention was denied.
Also the residues that were collected behind the sofa, according to the first report, “coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann”, which led the Portuguese police and also the English liaison officer to fundament their suspicions that the child died between 5.30 p.m. and 10 p.m. at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, and that the body was transported in the car that was rented by the parents 22 days later.
With the lifting of the judicial secrecy next week, some of those documents may be made public. CM knows that the fundaments of the preliminary report, allied to the elements that were collected by the investigation in the meantime, led the authorities onto the path of the parents as suspects of the child’s death. Kate and Gerry McCann later alleged that there were no indicia against them, but another report, signed by Mark Harrisom, the English policeman who was assigned to help the Portuguese authorities, also peremptorily stated that the little girl was dead.
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There are a lot of files NOT available in the files released July 2008
Were ALL the forensic details released?
This suggests they were not.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/english-in-portimo-to-defend-secrecy.html
English in Portimão to defend secrecy - Correio da Manhã
18 July 2008 | Posted by astro Leave a Comment
‘CM’ reveals – 15 of the 19 genetic markers found
English want secrecy
The McCanns want to hide the data from the Birmingham laboratory
One magistrate and two policemen, including Stuart Prior, responsible for the connection with the PJ, were at the Court in Portimão yesterday, trying to convince the Public Ministry prosecutor Magalhães e Menezes not to release the entire process of the disappearance of Madeleine from the judicial secrecy. One of the situations that the English want is that the preliminary report from the Birmingham lab, which mentions that “15 of the 19 genetic markers that were found in a residue that was collected from the couple’s car’s boot, are a match [with the missing child]” is not made public. Their pretention was denied.
Also the residues that were collected behind the sofa, according to the first report, “coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann”, which led the Portuguese police and also the English liaison officer to fundament their suspicions that the child died between 5.30 p.m. and 10 p.m. at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, and that the body was transported in the car that was rented by the parents 22 days later.
With the lifting of the judicial secrecy next week, some of those documents may be made public. CM knows that the fundaments of the preliminary report, allied to the elements that were collected by the investigation in the meantime, led the authorities onto the path of the parents as suspects of the child’s death. Kate and Gerry McCann later alleged that there were no indicia against them, but another report, signed by Mark Harrisom, the English policeman who was assigned to help the Portuguese authorities, also peremptorily stated that the little girl was dead.
And of course CM is totally unbiased and never reported any total bollox leaked to it by the PJ!
ALso it says
. Their pretention was denied.
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There are a lot of files NOT available in the files released July 2008
Were ALL the forensic details released?
This suggests they were not.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/english-in-portimo-to-defend-secrecy.html
English in Portimão to defend secrecy - Correio da Manhã
18 July 2008 | Posted by astro Leave a Comment
‘CM’ reveals – 15 of the 19 genetic markers found
English want secrecy
The McCanns want to hide the data from the Birmingham laboratory
One magistrate and two policemen, including Stuart Prior, responsible for the connection with the PJ, were at the Court in Portimão yesterday, trying to convince the Public Ministry prosecutor Magalhães e Menezes not to release the entire process of the disappearance of Madeleine from the judicial secrecy. One of the situations that the English want is that the preliminary report from the Birmingham lab, which mentions that “15 of the 19 genetic markers that were found in a residue that was collected from the couple’s car’s boot, are a match [with the missing child]” is not made public. Their pretention was denied.
Also the residues that were collected behind the sofa, according to the first report, “coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann”, which led the Portuguese police and also the English liaison officer to fundament their suspicions that the child died between 5.30 p.m. and 10 p.m. at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, and that the body was transported in the car that was rented by the parents 22 days later.
With the lifting of the judicial secrecy next week, some of those documents may be made public. CM knows that the fundaments of the preliminary report, allied to the elements that were collected by the investigation in the meantime, led the authorities onto the path of the parents as suspects of the child’s death. Kate and Gerry McCann later alleged that there were no indicia against them, but another report, signed by Mark Harrisom, the English policeman who was assigned to help the Portuguese authorities, also peremptorily stated that the little girl was dead.
Did you actually read that article that you posted?
Or did you not understand the word "pretention" which incidentally the translator could not even spell properly?
The article you have posted shows precisely the opposite of what you have claimed it shows.
It says that the "pretention" or pretension (which means claim) was denied.
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In conclusion, the FSS never made any claim that Madeleine' DNA had been identified.
THe PJ did not understand the reports.
ANother myth debunked.
Of course, the PJ are a bunch of fools.
But let me amuse you a little, read this
https://twitter.com/pjreis/status/222531742085558272 (https://twitter.com/pjreis/status/222531742085558272)
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In conclusion, the FSS never made any claim that Madeleine' DNA had been identified.
THe PJ did not understand the reports.
ANother myth debunked.
Of course, the PJ are a bunch of fools.
But let me amuse you a little, read this
https://twitter.com/pjreis/status/222531742085558272 (https://twitter.com/pjreis/status/222531742085558272)
I have read that claim from Reis before. He made it a long time ago. Unfortunately neither he, nor anyone else ever found any evidence to back up his claim.
If you manage to find any evidence then do let us know.
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Could it be that the Portuguese wanted to apply their Law as relates to the number of DNA markers which constitute a match and this was unacceptable to the UK whose baseline is 20 markers for a match under the Law?
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Could it be that the Portuguese wanted to apply their Law as relates to the number of DNA markers which constitute a match and this was unacceptable to the UK whose baseline is 20 markers for a match under the Law?
NO.
Such LCNDNA from a mixed sample of three or more people can NEVER identify anyone under any legal system.
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Could it be that the Portuguese wanted to apply their Law as relates to the number of DNA markers which constitute a match and this was unacceptable to the UK whose baseline is 20 markers for a match under the Law?
But surely UK law is irrelevant to Portuguese justice? I would have expected that the FSS had worked with many other jurisidictions besides the UK and would be aware that such differences existed.
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Could it be that the Portuguese wanted to apply their Law as relates to the number of DNA markers which constitute a match and this was unacceptable to the UK whose baseline is 20 markers for a match under the Law?
NO.
Such LCNDNA from a mixed sample of three or more people can NEVER identify anyone under any legal system.
Deserves a bump.
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Could it be that the Portuguese wanted to apply their Law as relates to the number of DNA markers which constitute a match and this was unacceptable to the UK whose baseline is 20 markers for a match under the Law?
No, John. The number of alleles examined by the different countries' forensic services is not the issue here.
In that boot sample, they found 15 alleles matching hers in a soup of 37 belonging to between 3 and 5 people in a hire car used by her immediate family, various relations and other people.
Those alleles are not exclusive to her - she inherited them from her parents, after all. A number of them will also match those in her siblings' profiles. And it is quite common to share 5-6 with a total stranger.
The issue is that, because the sample was a soup to which several people had contributed, there is no way of telling whether those 15 were actually hers or were simply the combination of those that she shares with each of the other people who contributed to that sample.
As Debunker pointed out, the initial PT police team didn't seem to understand the soup issue for some reason. Even if there had been all 19 present, the situation would still be the same.
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Note well:
Even if there had been all 19 present, the situation would still be the same.
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Could it be that the Portuguese wanted to apply their Law as relates to the number of DNA markers which constitute a match and this was unacceptable to the UK whose baseline is 20 markers for a match under the Law?
No, John. The number of alleles examined by the different countries' forensic services is not the issue here.
In that boot sample, they found 15 alleles matching hers in a soup of 37 belonging to between 3 and 5 people in a hire car used by her immediate family, various relations and other people.
Those alleles are not exclusive to her - she inherited them from her parents, after all. A number of them will also match those in her
siblings' profiles. And it is quite common to share 5-6 with a total stranger.
The issue is that, because the sample was a soup to which several people had contributed, there is no way of telling whether those 15 were actually hers or were simply the combination of those that she shares with each of the other people who contributed to that sample.
As Debunker pointed out, the initial PT police team didn't seem to understand the soup issue for some reason. Even if there had been all 19 present, the situation would still be the same.
It is even more complicated than that. Each marker can be attached to several different sites. Normal DNA relies on specific markers being identified at specifi sites. With LCNDNA the site informationis lost, hence the 50% chance that the 37 allele soup would match any three random Europeans.
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There are a lot of files NOT available in the files released July 2008
Were ALL the forensic details released?
This suggests they were not.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/english-in-portimo-to-defend-secrecy.html
English in Portimão to defend secrecy - Correio da Manhã
18 July 2008 | Posted by astro Leave a Comment
‘CM’ reveals – 15 of the 19 genetic markers found
English want secrecy
The McCanns want to hide the data from the Birmingham laboratory
One magistrate and two policemen, including Stuart Prior, responsible for the connection with the PJ, were at the Court in Portimão yesterday, trying to convince the Public Ministry prosecutor Magalhães e Menezes not to release the entire process of the disappearance of Madeleine from the judicial secrecy. One of the situations that the English want is that the preliminary report from the Birmingham lab, which mentions that “15 of the 19 genetic markers that were found in a residue that was collected from the couple’s car’s boot, are a match [with the missing child]” is not made public. Their pretention was denied.
Also the residues that were collected behind the sofa, according to the first report, “coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann”, which led the Portuguese police and also the English liaison officer to fundament their suspicions that the child died between 5.30 p.m. and 10 p.m. at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz, and that the body was transported in the car that was rented by the parents 22 days later.
With the lifting of the judicial secrecy next week, some of those documents may be made public. CM knows that the fundaments of the preliminary report, allied to the elements that were collected by the investigation in the meantime, led the authorities onto the path of the parents as suspects of the child’s death. Kate and Gerry McCann later alleged that there were no indicia against them, but another report, signed by Mark Harrisom, the English policeman who was assigned to help the Portuguese authorities, also peremptorily stated that the little girl was dead.
May I suggest that you read this:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LAWYERS_UK_POLICE.htm
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The submission is too long to post. In a nutshell, the UK police services went ballistic about the leaks in the PT press.
Their concerns are under four headings:
A. Material relating to condemned and suspected sex offenders
B. Intelligence Reports
C. Crimestoppers (Crime Combating Unit)
D. Communication between Police Forces
An interesting read.
The prosecutor agreed.
From the Public Prosecutor's Office
Conclusion on 03-07-2008
Apenso VI - 1 Information, lists of suspects of sexual crimes contains elements that refer to matters from the private sphere of citizens that do not have any reference to these case files, as they were sent as informative data to be returned and for the purposes of helping the investigation, their function stopping there. The remaining of these documents in the case files would be a violation of the global defence of private rights of the citizens involved by means of the public divulgation of these elements, in relation to which the interest of the investigation was not justified. There for these reasons please return the two volumes that make up the Apenso Vi - 1 to the PJ, they should be returned to the UK police forces which sent them and to the other police forces that delivered them, according to article no. 86 no. 7 of the CPP.
Ptm 18-07-2008
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LAWYERS_UK_POLICE.htm
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The submission is too long to post. In a nutshell, the UK police services went ballistic about the leaks in the PT press.
Their concerns are under four headings:
A. Material relating to condemned and suspected sex offenders
B. Intelligence Reports
C. Crimestoppers (Crime Combating Unit)
D. Communication between Police Forces
An interesting read.
The prosecutor agreed.
From the Public Prosecutor's Office
Conclusion on 03-07-2008
Apenso VI - 1 Information, lists of suspects of sexual crimes contains elements that refer to matters from the private sphere of citizens that do not have any reference to these case files, as they were sent as informative data to be returned and for the purposes of helping the investigation, their function stopping there. The remaining of these documents in the case files would be a violation of the global defence of private rights of the citizens involved by means of the public divulgation of these elements, in relation to which the interest of the investigation was not justified. There for these reasons please return the two volumes that make up the Apenso Vi - 1 to the PJ, they should be returned to the UK police forces which sent them and to the other police forces that delivered them, according to article no. 86 no. 7 of the CPP.
Ptm 18-07-2008
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LAWYERS_UK_POLICE.htm
Exactly. That is what the Unreleased Files amount to. Absolutely no secret evidence against The McCanns. Just protecting the privacy of some other people.
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It's a bit more complicated than that...
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It's a bit more complicated than that...
Care to explain?
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It's a bit more complicated than that...
Care to explain?
It's not just about privacy.
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Care to explain?
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Care to explain?
There are 4 main categories of issues.
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Care to explain?
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Care to explain?
I was replying to Eleanor about the objections to certain aspects of the files being made public:
A. Material relating to condemned and suspected sex offenders
B. Intelligence Reports
C. Crimestoppers (Crime Combating Unit)
D. Communication between Police Forces
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Care to explain?
I was replying to Eleanor about the objections to certain aspects of the files being made public:
A. Material relating to condemned and suspected sex offenders
B. Intelligence Reports
C. Crimestoppers (Crime Combating Unit)m
D. Communication between Police Forces
At last. Like pulling teeth!
So no evidence that any specific ordinary evidence was withheld.
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An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.
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According to Amaral, in one of his interviews, "all" meant 5 alleles. Even the unrelated baby's saliva had that many in common.
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From John's OP
It is clear that the Forensic Science Service in the UK (now disbanded) made a complete mess of the DNA analyses in this case. Furthermore, their leaking of the initial report was so unprofessional and a complete shambles.
Do you still hold that view, John? If so, what's the basis for that assertion?
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Just another myth that the deluded believe