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Alleged Miscarriages of Justice => Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. => Topic started by: Robittybob1 on May 31, 2020, 01:37:34 AM
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I have been looking at a series of photos on the blue forum (you might have to be a member to view them, http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk) and I've nearly come to a conclusion about the death of Sheila Caffell.
Looking at search function here on this red forum (miscarriageofjustice.co) on the Bamber board there were 13 posts that had mention Sheila being paralysed from the first bullet she took to the upper neck.
One could possibly imagine she was conscious, still able to speak but entirely unable to move. Looking at the blood flow lines there is no evidence of movement IMO. The lines do not change direction other than what is expected for blood flowing over a curved surface.
So I have made up my mind that there is no way Sheila could hold the rifle to shoot herself the second time.
IMO someone else took pity on her and shot her through the brain and killed her. Leaving the rifle on her lap making it look like a suicide.
IMO the first shot was suicidal but it wasn't fatal. She bleeds from the first wound for some time as the blood pools in her right armpit area.
I would say she standing when she took the first bullet. The blood on the right fell onto her arm when it was directly under the wound momentarily.
There was an encrypted suicide note left by Sheila which also points to her suicidal intentions.
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Search results:
" Search results for: paralysed
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Re-evaluation of the blood and silencer evidence
« by Holly Goodhead on May 15, 2020, 12:38:54 PM »
...... to stumble downstairs pouring with blood, half paralysed, dazed, dizzy, shocked, and psychotic. Almost ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Is there any evidence which implicates Sheila?
« by Caroline on April 18, 2020, 11:58:37 AM »
...... have slept through it but she must have been paralysed by terror when he made her sit for the first ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: The Weapons kept at White House Farm
« by G-Unit on March 23, 2020, 07:37:49 AM »
...... manage to walk when she was possibly partially paralysed due to the bullet fracturing part of her spine? ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: The phone call
« by steve_trousers on February 18, 2020, 04:05:43 PM »
...... profusely with his tongue ripped & larynx paralysed — instead of calling the caretaker, the ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Dr Vanezis Trial Testimony
« by Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 06:02:41 PM »
...... semi-conscious, gurgling for breath, partially paralysed as her upper spine had been shattered by the ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Could Sheila Caffell have defeated Nevill Bamber?
« by Ispywithmybigeye on March 17, 2020, 03:15:38 AM »
...... herself a SECOND time when she was partially paralysed having fractured her spine where the bullet ended, ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Sheila’s Nightdress
« by Ispywithmybigeye on April 11, 2020, 07:51:12 AM »
...... with blood, her head at an angle and partially paralysed, she managed to put her hand down again, fumble ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: ITV Developing A Series Based On The Case Of Jeremy Bamber
« by Holly Goodhead on July 10, 2018, 03:48:10 PM »
...... evidence was that the first shot would have paralysed Sheila effectively making any second shot ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« by Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2014, 11:17:08 PM »
...... . The bullet fragmented and left her effectively paralysed. She was semi conscious and could never have ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« by Holly Goodhead on November 21, 2014, 12:32:16 PM »
...... we are asked to believe that June lay in bed paralysed by fear. I don't think so. &%&£(+ I don't ............ June lay in bed paralysed by fear. I think the shots she received whilst ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: New Program featuring an interview with Barbara Wilson, former WHF secretary.
« by Holly Goodhead on November 18, 2013, 10:36:36 PM »
...... have rendered her unconscious, and possibly even paralysed. Dr Vanezis's comment that the first shot wouldn' ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Jeremy Bamber - Unluckiest person in the world?
« by puglove on April 14, 2013, 01:20:03 AM »
...... 't have killed her Outlook but it effectively paralysed her and most probably stunned her. The second ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« by david1819 on January 26, 2015, 07:43:46 PM »
...... everywhere. A person who is effectively stunned/paralysed by a bullet in the neck is incapable of targeting ......
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Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Was Sheila shot with a rifle fitted with a silencer?
« by John on April 08, 2012, 09:44:20 PM »
...... 't make the second one because she was effectively paralysed from the lacerations to her neck and spine where ......"
Only one entry seems to be talking about June Bamber otherwise the remainder seem on the initial view to be referring to Sheila.
So there seems a high degree of consensus that the first shot paralysed her.
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From that list the first result actually comes from Ispywithmybigeye (Ispy)
"http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg590415#msg590415.
Ispy makes some very good points as to why Sheila didn't kill everyone.
I'd say you'd have to give Ispy top marks for this post:
"You see, after removing a silencer you then have to screw the protector back onto the rifle’s barrel. And the rifle found laying on Sheila’s lap had the protector on its barrel.
That means:
Sheila would’ve had to have shot herself in her neck the one time, with the silencer attached
That shot didn’t kill her, though. So, according to your imagination instead of her unscrewing the silencer and tossing it on the floor, then shooting herself yet again in the neck, she decided to stumble downstairs pouring with blood, half paralysed, dazed, dizzy, shocked, and psychotic.
Almost near collapse due to loss of blood — yet miraculously not one drop of blood fell down onto her nightdress, body, legs, feet, carpet — she went to the kitchen and gave the silencer a rinse under the tap and meticulously made sure no blood was left in the sink; she then walked across Nevill’s blood, sugar and glass; went to the cupboard, bent down without any blood dripping from her neck, throat, nose or mouth, placed the silencer in a box at the very back of the cupboard, and closed the box.
She THEN, in her psychotic state, decided to find the barrel protector she’d removed, managed to find it amongst all the mess and upheaval, but still in her frenzy as she struggled to breathe due to the pressure of blood ballooning in her neck and throat, she caught sight of it, screwed it back on, and walked upstairs without leaving a single footprint...
She then walked into the master bedroom, avoided stepping on June’s blood, laid down at an angle, pressed her bloodied handprint inside the Bible, closed it, opened it again — and then shot herself a second time.
Besides all the obvious, you tell everyone WHY Sheila not only removed the silencer and put it in the cupboard — for NO reason whatsoever — and THEN, still in her psychotic state decided to hunt for that small barrel protector which must have been uppermost in her mind (wouldn’t it yours after having blown your two sons brains out; your father’s and your mother’s), and then screw that terribly important protector back on the barrel?
What would have made that barrel protector more important to her than anything else?"
Not many places talk about the barrel protector so I'll have to research that as well later.
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11316.msg584323#msg584323
A post by Brietta. I get the sense she really believes Jeremy Bamber did it.
"We will never know what went on that night. I'm not sure if initially his victims knew who he was (wet suit ~ face covering) although I am certain he would have made sure they knew exactly who he was when he was in control of the situation.
Sheila might have been disturbed only when the noise from the kitchen reached her or she might have slept through it but she must have been paralysed by terror when he made her sit for the first bullet to her throat.
Maybe he did make her write the entry in her diary ... I think he might have found that amusing."
"paralysed by terror" is not quite the meaning of paralysed I was looking for.
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11293.msg579635#msg579635
A post by Ispy.
......snip the first bit.....
"It’s almost amusing how you say you like to quote from sources rather than give an opinion, when most of your sourced “facts” are wrong, and you’re constantly giving opinions — all of which are smashed to smithereens.
What’s more, there’d be no point to a discussion board if we could only quote established facts.
To see how good you are at forming opinions, perhaps you’d answer this: how do you think Sheila managed to:
A) Shoot herself with a rifle where she couldn’t reach the trigger
B) After the first shot blood poured furiously into her neck and out of her mouth: how did she manage to walk downstairs, put the silencer in a cupboard, walk upstairs again, without any of her blood spilling onto the front of her nightdress?
C) How did she manage to walk when she was possibly partially paralysed due to the bullet fracturing part of her spine?"
Once again great questions.
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11235.msg574800#msg574800
Another post by Ispy but in this post, Ispy is talking of Nevill's tongue being paralysed. Not what we wanted.
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11426.msg585926#msg585926
OK another by Ispy
"Yes, the defence very quickly dropped the Bible attempt...when they realised it brought into question how Sheila could have shot herself in the throat, causing massive blood loss to collect in her throat and neck (as seen by the swelling in the photographs), been semi-conscious, gurgling for breath, partially paralysed as her upper spine had been shattered by the bullet — then somehow picked the Bible up, opened it, deliberately put her hand in the pool of blood that had escaped from her neck into a pool beside her, then pressed her hand hard inside the Bible, closed it, opened it again and put it down next to her when she was supposedly holding the long rifle in her right hand and her left arm was twisted backwards towards her head...them somehow managed to shoot herself a second time.
No wonder the defence quickly shut up about THAT!
Jeremy hadn’t anticipated when he pressed Sheila’s hand onto the Bible then closed it, that it would make an identical handprint on the opposite page! What an idiot! Besides being an evil psychopath and mass murderer, he’s also thick."
I'll have to look into the handprint as well.
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11292.msg578623#msg578623
Another post by Ispy
"What WOULD be unique if it had of been Sheila who’d murdered her family
She’d have been the first and only female in all history to have shot dead her mother, father, two sons and then herself
She’d also have been the first female in UK history to have shot herself dead, not once, but TWICE
She’d have gone down in history as having been the first person to have shot herself in the throat despite being unable to pull the trigger as her fingers couldn’t reach, and then shoot herself a SECOND time when she was partially paralysed having fractured her spine where the bullet ended, and unable to breathe properly as her throat pumped up with blood effectively drowning her"
Maybe I don't fully agree with Ispy on this point after the first bullet but definitely after the second.
and unable to breathe properly as her throat pumped up with blood effectively drowning her"
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http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11337.msg582444#msg582444 "Re: Sheila’s Nightdress"
Ispy again:
"You’d think she’d have thrown them on the floor — being in a psychotic rage and all that...
Your other very, very interesting point about why wouldn’t Sheila have shot herself in the mouth should be highlighted.
Studies prove that when people shoot themselves dead (it’s always men, usually, who kill themselves by gun), their most favoured method is shooting themselves in their mouth, and the second favourite is the temple.
Sheila could not possibly have pulled the trigger by aiming at her neck (BIG slip up for dim Jeremy), so if she’d really tried to kill herself she’d have found it easier to go for her mouth or temple.
Another thing: she bled profusely after the first shot which caused huge swelling to her neck. Are we supposed to believe she just lay there semi-conscious; touched the bullet wound with her right hand as blood spurted out and trailed down her forearm; then realising she wasn’t dead but in pain, shock, trembling and shaking, weak as a kitten and choking with blood, her head at an angle and partially paralysed, she managed to put her hand down again, fumble around for the rifle without seeing it, placed another bullet into the cartridge (all with just one hand), cock it, then aimed it at her neck again and pulled the trigger?
...snip ...."
What's the need for this did the gun have no magazine in it.?
she managed to put her hand down again, fumble around for the rifle without seeing it, placed another bullet into the cartridge (all with just one hand), cock it,
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From Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
For a change a post from John.
" snip ....
In addition, according to the pathologist, Sheila was stunned by the first shot to her neck. The bullet fragmented and left her effectively paralysed. She was semi-conscious and could never have taken a second shot. There was no blood smear on her neck, no blood on her fingers, no blood on the rifle trigger and no blood spatter caused by coughing up blood from her shattered throat.
.... snip ..."
OK on this point John and I agree.
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Re: ITV Developing A Series Based On The Case Of Jeremy Bamber
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=9315.msg473465#msg473465
A post by Angelo
"Agreed and the tips of her fingers would have been bloodied...they weren't. The pathologist's expert evidence was that the first shot would have paralysed Sheila effectively making any second shot impossible."
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from Re: New Program featuring an interview with Barbara Wilson, former WHF secretary.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2932.msg106707#msg106707
A post from Goatboy
"When you consider who is guilty of a murder there are three things to consider. Means, motive and opportunity. Who had all of these things regarding the White House Farm murders? Sheila? If you take the view that she was having a psychotic episode then that takes the motive part out of it. Opportunity, well she was in the house. Means? She simply couldn't have fired the rifle so accurately and failed to hit the target only a few times, she couldn't have reloaded the rifle at least twice. She couldn't have battered Nevill senseless. She went on a killing spree including a life or death struggle with Nevill and showed little or no signs of this at all on her skin, hair, clothing etc. If this was to have worked she would need a steady supply of ammo. As far as I understand it she would have gone on the rampage in a flimsy nightie with no pockets. Finally she somehow managed to shoot herself through the neck twice, despite the fact that there is every indication that the first shot would probably have rendered her unconscious, and possibly even paralysed. Dr Vanezis's comment that the first shot wouldn't have been immediately fatal has been taken on the blue forum to mean she could have walked around and even run upstairs. This simply could not have happened. Despite what it said in the TV programme it's reasonably clear that Nevill was first shot upstairs. The fact he ended up downstairs was probably because he was trying to get to the phone, which was disabled either because the phone had been moved from his room without him knowing or by taking the kitchen phone off the hook. Someone battered him senseless because he was trying to get to the phone. What would it have mattered to Sheila if he had made a call for help? When she was planning to kill herself anyway which she would have easily accomplished by the time the police would have arrived? So someone was willing to go to great lengths to stop Nevill getting to the phone to say what was really happening. And who would have had the motivation to do that?
Bamber on the other hand had motive (money), means (knew how to get to the farm quickly on a bike and how to get into the building without having to break in) and opportunity (at last everyone in his way of his inheritance just happened to be gathered together in the house at the same time). It seems quite obvious really when you think about it, doesn't it?"
Worth reading IMO.
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From thread: Re: Jeremy Bamber - Unluckiest person in the world? Post from Iggy
"He probably couldn't find the dog to shoot it that night and in any event the clock was ticking in his great master-plan. Bamber knew that the dog saw what he had done that night and it probably got on his nerves. he certainly didn't want that dog around. Had he made any effort Crispy could have been re-homed but that wasn't good enough...she had to die!
The first shot wouldn't have killed her Outlook but it effectively paralysed her and most probably stunned her. The second shot was needed to end her life, Bamber couldn't possibly take the risk that the paramedics or ambulancemen as they were in 1985 could revive her long enough to save her life.
Just had a thought on this. Was it necessary that Jeremy Bamber delay the police and first-aiders from gaining access to the farmhouse? The longer he kept them out the safer it was for him surely?"
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Nearly done!
Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
a post from John http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg215107#msg215107
"The evidence which proves Sheila could not have shot herself is everywhere. A person who is effectively stunned/paralysed by a bullet in the neck is incapable of targeting a second shot. Sheila never moved after the first shot evidenced by the undisturbed blood trails.
ps. please familiarise yourself with the facts."
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Last one of the search finds:
From thread Re: Was Sheila shot with a rifle fitted with a silencer?
Post by John: http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=269.msg4576#msg4576
"It seems that Sheila could not have taken that first shot and she certainly didn't make the second one because she was effectively paralysed from the lacerations to her neck and spine where the bullet lodged. She would have been in excruciating pain and blood would have splattered everywhere had she still been conscious. It would also appear that the two shots were made within seconds of each other when her assailant panicked and realised she was not dead."
Ok I don't quite agree with all of that:
IMO Sheila could have taken the first shot.
IMO Sheila could not have taken second shot.
IMO there was a long period between the first and second shots, but no movement occurred. So it looks like time stood still.
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Last one of the search finds:
From thread Re: Was Sheila shot with a rifle fitted with a silencer?
Post by John: http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=269.msg4576#msg4576
"It seems that Sheila could not have taken that first shot and she certainly didn't make the second one because she was effectively paralysed from the lacerations to her neck and spine where the bullet lodged. She would have been in excruciating pain and blood would have splattered everywhere had she still been conscious. It would also appear that the two shots were made within seconds of each other when her assailant panicked and realised she was not dead."
Ok I don't quite agree with all of that:
IMO Sheila could have taken the first shot.
IMO Sheila could not have taken second shot.
IMO there was a long period between the first and second shots, but no movement occurred. So it looks like time stood still.
The defence and prosecution both agreed that there was no third party involved,Sheila couldn't shoot herself the second time,ergo it had to be JB.
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The defence and prosecution both agreed that there was no third party involved, Sheila couldn't shoot herself the second time,ergo it had to be JB.
As I said if Jeremy Bamber didn't do it, he wasn't in the house to know if there was a third party or not. Sheila isn't there to tell us what happened either.
Did someone hire a hitman? Were there other family members involved?
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From that list the first result actually comes from Ispywithmybigeye (Ispy)
"http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11431.msg590415#msg590415.
Ispy makes some very good points as to why Sheila didn't kill everyone.
I'd say you'd have to give Ispy top marks for this post:
"You see, after removing a silencer you then have to screw the protector back onto the rifle’s barrel. And the rifle found laying on Sheila’s lap had the protector on its barrel.
That means:
Sheila would’ve had to have shot herself in her neck the one time, with the silencer attached
That shot didn’t kill her, though. So, according to your imagination instead of her unscrewing the silencer and tossing it on the floor, then shooting herself yet again in the neck, she decided to stumble downstairs pouring with blood, half paralysed, dazed, dizzy, shocked, and psychotic.
Almost near collapse due to loss of blood — yet miraculously not one drop of blood fell down onto her nightdress, body, legs, feet, carpet — she went to the kitchen and gave the silencer a rinse under the tap and meticulously made sure no blood was left in the sink; she then walked across Nevill’s blood, sugar and glass; went to the cupboard, bent down without any blood dripping from her neck, throat, nose or mouth, placed the silencer in a box at the very back of the cupboard, and closed the box.
She THEN, in her psychotic state, decided to find the barrel protector she’d removed, managed to find it amongst all the mess and upheaval, but still in her frenzy as she struggled to breathe due to the pressure of blood ballooning in her neck and throat, she caught sight of it, screwed it back on, and walked upstairs without leaving a single footprint...
She then walked into the master bedroom, avoided stepping on June’s blood, laid down at an angle, pressed her bloodied handprint inside the Bible, closed it, opened it again — and then shot herself a second time.
Besides all the obvious, you tell everyone WHY Sheila not only removed the silencer and put it in the cupboard — for NO reason whatsoever — and THEN, still in her psychotic state decided to hunt for that small barrel protector which must have been uppermost in her mind (wouldn’t it yours after having blown your two sons brains out; your father’s and your mother’s), and then screw that terribly important protector back on the barrel?
What would have made that barrel protector more important to her than anything else?"
Not many places talk about the barrel protector so I'll have to research that as well later.
Ispy - I'm looking at the crime scene photos over on the blue forum and the gun does not appear to have a barrel protector screwed on.
Where are you getting your information from?
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....................There was an encrypted suicide note left by Sheila which also points to her suicidal intentions.
To the best of my knowledge, there was no suicide note, encrypted or otherwise, written by Sheila.
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To the best of my knowledge, there was no suicide note, encrypted or otherwise, written by Sheila.
I was telling the forum yesterday of how the Lord can help in some cases and when I look at the "suicide note" left by Sheila I would think it will take the "Mind of God" to decipher what she meant by it all.
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As I said if Jeremy Bamber didn't do it, he wasn't in the house to know if there was a third party or not. Sheila isn't there to tell us what happened either.
Did someone hire a hitman? Were there other family members involved?
I concur with your statements.
Re your questions. It's easy enough to pull 'stuff' out of the ether, but things of this magnitude don't JUST happen. A hitman? Well, for £2000 you're not going to get a very professional one. A fact exhibited by the fact that he goes to do a job without his own 'piece', relying, instead, on the less than highly efficient weapon available. Apart from which, most hitmen don't like the thought of killing children. Then there's the problem of how this mysterious hitman enters and exits -not so much a problem if it's a family member- and where they'd hide their getaway vehicle. What about motive? The hitman (presumably someone unknown to, and not knowing, the family) just shoots everyone -as each one dies, Jeremy's inheritance grows. If it's a family member, they'd surely have guessed that, unless the Wills said anything contrary, Jeremy would inherit. How would that benefit the family?
You've clearly put a lot of hours into what you've produced, but at the end of it, had I needed convincing, you'd have convinced me that Jeremy -and only Jeremy- was responsible.
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I was telling the forum yesterday of how the Lord can help in some cases and when I look at the "suicide note" left by Sheila I would think it will take the "Mind of God" to decipher what she meant by it all.
Here is a newspaper article discussing the same note.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/707781/Jeremy-Bamber-supporters-claim-police-ignored-sister-suicide-note-white-farm-essex
"Now a group set up to try to clear jailed farmer Bamber, who has spent thirty years behind bars, say that police found a hand-written note from Bamber's sister Sheila Caffell in her room at the farmhouse but it was filed away as "illegible" and not seen by the jury at the trial.
The group today launched an appeal to raise £1,500 in the next 28 days to pay for a forensic report on a series of several handwritten pages they say would support Bamber's claim that it was Sheila who shot dead their parents Nevill and June and her own six-year-old twins Nicholas and Daniel before committing suicide with the same gun."
It will be very hard o make out what she meant by the note.
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I was telling the forum yesterday of how the Lord can help in some cases and when I look at the "suicide note" left by Sheila I would think it will take the "Mind of God" to decipher what she meant by it all.
Several hours were spent, on blue, trying to decipher those scrawlings. In the end we decided it had been the boys practicing their writing skills!!!
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Here is a newspaper article discussing the same note.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/707781/Jeremy-Bamber-supporters-claim-police-ignored-sister-suicide-note-white-farm-essex
"Now a group set up to try to clear jailed farmer Bamber, who has spent thirty years behind bars, say that police found a hand-written note from Bamber's sister Sheila Caffell in her room at the farmhouse but it was filed away as "illegible" and not seen by the jury at the trial.
The group today launched an appeal to raise £1,500 in the next 28 days to pay for a forensic report on a series of several handwritten pages they say would support Bamber's claim that it was Sheila who shot dead their parents Nevill and June and her own six-year-old twins Nicholas and Daniel before committing suicide with the same gun."
It will be very hard o make out what she meant by the note.
That article was published in 2016! Blue was examining it long before then. It's old stuff. Done, dusted and discarded.
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I concur with your statements.
Re your questions. It's easy enough to pull 'stuff' out of the ether, but things of this magnitude don't JUST happen. A hitman? Well, for £2000 you're not going to get a very professional one. A fact exhibited by the fact that he goes to do a job without his own 'piece', relying, instead, on the less than highly efficient weapon available. Apart from which, most hitmen don't like the thought of killing children. Then there's the problem of how this mysterious hitman enters and exits -not so much a problem if it's a family member- and where they'd hide their getaway vehicle. What about motive? The hitman (presumably someone unknown to, and not knowing, the family) just shoots everyone -as each one dies, Jeremy's inheritance grows. If it's a family member, they'd surely have guessed that, unless the Wills said anything contrary, Jeremy would inherit. How would that benefit the family?
You've clearly put a lot of hours into what you've produced, but at the end of it, had I needed convincing, you'd have convinced me that Jeremy -and only Jeremy- was responsible.
Upon reading Andrew Hunter's draft book there is a lot of hidden information and one of the most important bits was that there's another gun (.22 bolt action) that had 2 magazines with it, registered to be at the farm, but it wasn't found there the next day 7th August.
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That article was published in 2016! Blue was examining it long before then. It's old stuff. Done, dusted and discarded.
I would say no one has ever interpreted what the note meant. It is never been "done and dusted" but rather just brushed aside.
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Upon reading Andrew Hunter's draft book there is a lot of hidden information and one of the most important bits was that there's another gun (.22 bolt action) that had 2 magazines with it, registered to be at the farm, but it wasn't found there the next day 7th August.
Allegedly, Nevill's nephew, Anthony Pargeter, kept his weapon there, but had removed it the week prior to the murders.
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Several hours were spent, on blue, trying to decipher those scrawlings. In the end we decided it had been the boys practicing their writing skills!!!
What about the single letters and repeated number 3? I'd like to get the Holy Spirit to tell us what Sheila meant by those letters and numbers.
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I would say no one has ever interpreted what the note meant. It is never been "done and dusted" but rather just brushed aside.
It may not be done and dusted to those determined that it holds a message. Let's face it, as it says nothing, it can mean anything anyone wants it to mean. What it clearly doesn't say is "I'm the suicide note written by Sheila Caffell after she killed her family".
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Allegedly, Nevill's nephew, Anthony Pargeter, kept his weapon there, but had removed it the week prior to the murders.
I wonder if Andrew Hunter ever uses the name Pargeter in his book. He always steers clear of naming the Bamber relative who was supposed to be the owner of the .22 bolt action gun. [I've just remembered there is no way to search the Andrew Hunter draft book for names as it is in photo form.
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What about the single letters and repeated number 3? I'd like to get the Holy Spirit to tell us what Sheila meant by those letters and numbers.
The boys were practicing their numbers and letters? I think, if you're determined that it was Sheila, you may be calling on the wrong Deity for assistance? Murder is more Devil oriented.
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I wonder if Andrew Hunter ever uses the name Pargeter in his book. He always steers clear of naming the Bamber relative who was supposed to be the owner of the .22 bolt action gun. [I've just remembered there is no way to search the Andrew Hunter draft book for names as it is in photo form.
Perhaps he feared it could be construed as libelous? It's knowledge that's floated around on blue for years.
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It may not be done and dusted to those determined that it holds a message. Let's face it, as it says nothing, it can mean anything anyone wants it to mean. What it clearly doesn't say is "I'm the suicide note written by Sheila Caffell after she killed her family".
it is like any coded message, we take the meaning as delivered.
The boys were practicing their numbers and letters? I think, if you're determined that it was Sheila, you may be calling on the wrong Deity for assistance? Murder is more Devil oriented.
I don't know about that sorry.
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Perhaps he feared it could be construed as libelous? It's knowledge that's floated around on blue for years.
Well, no one wants to get sued for defamation do we!
Anthony Pargeter
Information on this web page was first uploaded to the internet in January 2012.
Anthony Pargeter and his rifle and sound moderator
Anthony Pargeter is Jeremy’s cousin on his father’s side. He married Regine Hausser, daughter of famous photographer Robert Hausser. Anthony had a sister, Jacqueline, who married Richard Wood.
Anthony and Jacqueline also had half brothers, as their mother, Audrey, had died and Reginald married again having two other sons called Clive and Roland. It is in Roland’s statement where rumours of a plane flying over to drop drugs at the farm in the middle of the night must have started. He confesses his own involvement in drugs and details a convoluted account of visiting a psychic and her telling him a tale of three hit men who killed the family. [1]
Anthony Pargeter had been shooting with Jeremy and was a frequent visitor to the farm from his home at the time in Bourne End, Buckinghamshire. He told the police that Jeremy became interested in guns in 1980 and then details that he himself had a .410 shotgun. He then graduated to a 12 bore shotgun, and gave his .410 to Jeremy which Jeremy never used. [2] This gun was kept at the farm and had to be licensed to Nevill Bamber as Jeremy Bamber did not own a gun, only an air rifle. In his 8th of August Statement he describes Jeremy as “a likeable young man” and that Nevill Bamber had told him that he had spoken of the acquisitions of farmland to give Jeremy an opportunity to try farming on his own if he ever wished to do so. Nevill had told Anthony that he would be around for a few years yet to guide Jeremy. [3] This is contrary to media reports that Nevill Bamber had a strange premonition that he was going to die.
In his later statement of September Anthony’s feelings about Jeremy appear to have shifted and he becomes suspicious of Jeremy’s interest in guns. He also details a conversation with David Boutflour about their discussion on the red paint found the moderator which matched the paint on the Aga surround. He says he went to the farm and noticed the scoring in the paint work and believed this is where the moderator had come into contact with the mantle. [4]
Where were Anthony Pargeter’s rifle and moderator on the night of the tragedy?
Anthony Pargeter made many statements to the police about the tragedy. In his statement of 8th August and the 10th of September he makes no mention of his rifle being at the farm. He discusses the rifle owned by Nevill and its whereabouts, but he does not clarify he came across it whilst looking for his own gun until statements made later.
So on the 17th of September he goes on to detail that he kept two 12 bore shotguns and an air rifle at the farm house but after the tragedy picked them up from David Boutflour and took them back to his home in Bourne End.
Then on t he 17th of November he told police that he only used “.22 rifles in Africa but in England I only had an air rifle”. He is not explicit about where this rifle was kept.
Anthony becomes more explicit in his later 12th of December statement by saying that that he did own a BRNO .22 bolt action rifle and says that it was at White House Farm the weekend before the tragedies. He does not state that he took the rifle away from the farm when he left and as he did not attend the farm again until after the incident we can assume that the rifle was at the White House Farm during the tragedies. He also makes no mention that he owned a sound moderator, or that the rifle had one to use with it at the farm.
At trial he then details verbally again that the rifle was at the farm the weekend before the tragedies, and he also told the court that he left his rifle at the farm, and I quote “I take the bolt with me. I leave the rifle at White House”. [5] Anthony makes no mention of his sound moderator at this point.
In 1991 after complaints by Jeremy Bamber, the City of London Police seized Pargeter’s rifle and moderator. There are three points at issue here:
Annthony Pargeter’s gun was licensed in 1980 for three years, and renewed in 1983. It was to be used at White House Farm, but the license stipulated that it was to be kept at his home in Bourne End, Bucks. He was also issued with a sound moderator for use with the rifle at White House Farm. [6]
So, we have established that Anthony did keep his rifle at the farm which was in breach of his license. Secondly that he owned a sound moderator which was also under the same license terms as the rifle.
Anthony Pargeter sued the Sport Newspaper in 1991 after they had misled readers by suggesting that his rifle had been at White House Farm and possibly used during the tragedies. The Sport lost the libel case and Pargeter was awarded compensation of £40,000 plus costs of £60,000. [7]
The third point that I would like to make is about the moderator is that In 1991 when the police seized the moderator and rifle from Anthony for testing, they detail that it’s the same type and make as the one allegedly used during the tragedies. [8] I quote “Sound Moderator the same make and type as DRB/1” The witness reference exhibit number for the moderator supposedly used the kill the family was DRB/1 (It was given this reference because it was David Robert Boutflour who found the exhibit).
It has been repeatedly denied by police that there were two identical moderators. Jeremy Bamber maintains that there were two sound moderators at the farm with DS Stan Jones (initials SBJ) probably finding Anthony’s moderator at the scene on the 7th of August. It can be shown that DS Davidson fingerprinted a sound moderator on the 9th of August 1985,[9] which is impossible if David Boutflour did not find the sound moderator in the gun cupboard until the 10th of August 1985.
It is likely then, that these were switched over as the case progressed, there are many evidential papers and photographs to support this argument including the moderator label’s having the wrong case reference number on it and further tampering of the exhibit witness reference number which evolved from being SBJ/1 to DB/1 to DRB/1 with no supporting explanatory paperwork. There are two forensic scientists, Brian Elliott and Glynnis Howard who both made detailed statements to the City of London police stating that the reference numbers for the sound moderators in their original statements had been altered without their knowledge. [10] Considering how important the moderator was to the conviction of Jeremy Bamber it has had a surprisingly colourful life, evolving from nothing, to have many different names and guises.
https://jeremybamber.org/anthony-pargeter/
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it is like any coded message, we take the meaning as delivered.
I don't know about that sorry.
So what, in your opinion, is the message being delivered here, and what leads you to that conclusion?
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Well, no one wants to get sued for defamation do we!
"We" certainly don't.
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Search results:
" Search results for: paralysed
Pages: [1]
1
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Re-evaluation of the blood and silencer evidence
« by Holly Goodhead on May 15, 2020, 12:38:54 PM »
...... to stumble downstairs pouring with blood, half paralysed, dazed, dizzy, shocked, and psychotic. Almost ......
2
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Is there any evidence which implicates Sheila?
« by Caroline on April 18, 2020, 11:58:37 AM »
...... have slept through it but she must have been paralysed by terror when he made her sit for the first ......
3
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: The Weapons kept at White House Farm
« by G-Unit on March 23, 2020, 07:37:49 AM »
...... manage to walk when she was possibly partially paralysed due to the bullet fracturing part of her spine? ......
4
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: The phone call
« by steve_trousers on February 18, 2020, 04:05:43 PM »
...... profusely with his tongue ripped & larynx paralysed — instead of calling the caretaker, the ......
5
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Dr Vanezis Trial Testimony
« by Nicholas on April 26, 2020, 06:02:41 PM »
...... semi-conscious, gurgling for breath, partially paralysed as her upper spine had been shattered by the ......
6
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Could Sheila Caffell have defeated Nevill Bamber?
« by Ispywithmybigeye on March 17, 2020, 03:15:38 AM »
...... herself a SECOND time when she was partially paralysed having fractured her spine where the bullet ended, ......
7
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Sheila’s Nightdress
« by Ispywithmybigeye on April 11, 2020, 07:51:12 AM »
...... with blood, her head at an angle and partially paralysed, she managed to put her hand down again, fumble ......
8
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: ITV Developing A Series Based On The Case Of Jeremy Bamber
« by Holly Goodhead on July 10, 2018, 03:48:10 PM »
...... evidence was that the first shot would have paralysed Sheila effectively making any second shot ......
9
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« by Holly Goodhead on January 22, 2014, 11:17:08 PM »
...... . The bullet fragmented and left her effectively paralysed. She was semi conscious and could never have ......
10
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« by Holly Goodhead on November 21, 2014, 12:32:16 PM »
...... we are asked to believe that June lay in bed paralysed by fear. I don't think so. &%&£(+ I don't ............ June lay in bed paralysed by fear. I think the shots she received whilst ......
11
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: New Program featuring an interview with Barbara Wilson, former WHF secretary.
« by Holly Goodhead on November 18, 2013, 10:36:36 PM »
...... have rendered her unconscious, and possibly even paralysed. Dr Vanezis's comment that the first shot wouldn' ......
12
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Jeremy Bamber - Unluckiest person in the world?
« by puglove on April 14, 2013, 01:20:03 AM »
...... 't have killed her Outlook but it effectively paralysed her and most probably stunned her. The second ......
13
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Forensic evidence. Was there really none ?
« by david1819 on January 26, 2015, 07:43:46 PM »
...... everywhere. A person who is effectively stunned/paralysed by a bullet in the neck is incapable of targeting ......
14
Jeremy Bamber and the callous murder of his father, mother, sister and twin nephews. Case effectively CLOSED by CCRC on basis of NO APPEAL REFERRAL. / Re: Was Sheila shot with a rifle fitted with a silencer?
« by John on April 08, 2012, 09:44:20 PM »
...... 't make the second one because she was effectively paralysed from the lacerations to her neck and spine where ......"
Only one entry seems to be talking about June Bamber otherwise the remainder seem on the initial view to be referring to Sheila.
So there seems a high degree of consensus that the first shot paralysed her.
I can see my username being used above in quotes I haven't made?!
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I can see my username being used above in quotes I haven't made?!
How could that have been arranged, then? Or are they your words taken out of context?
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As I said if Jeremy Bamber didn't do it, he wasn't in the house to know if there was a third party or not. Sheila isn't there to tell us what happened either.
Did someone hire a hitman? Were there other family members involved?
In all the subsequent years after the fact and conviction even JB has never used the 3rd party has a defence has he? he said Sheila did it.
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I was telling the forum yesterday of how the Lord can help in some cases and when I look at the "suicide note" left by Sheila I would think it will take the "Mind of God" to decipher what she meant by it all.
My own feeling is that Sheila wouldn't have written a suicide note. IF she killed her family and then herself, it would have been because she was behaving totally erratically as a result of illness, and writing a note wouldn't even have occurred to her.
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The boys were practicing their numbers and letters? I think, if you're determined that it was Sheila, you may be calling on the wrong Deity for assistance? Murder is more Devil oriented.
The devil always call in his debt,JB is learning that.
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My own feeling is that Sheila wouldn't have written a suicide note. IF she killed her family and then herself, it would have been because she was behaving totally erratically as a result of illness, and writing a note wouldn't even have occurred to her.
I agree. A written note indicates some forethought and planning. Doesn't fit with a psychotic episode.
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The devil always call in his debt,JB is learning that.
One might be forgiven for believing that JB, because he never had one, had thought to cheat the devil of gaining his soul when he entered into his unholy alliance.
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I was telling the forum yesterday of how the Lord can help in some cases and when I look at the "suicide note" left by Sheila I would think it will take the "Mind of God" to decipher what she meant by it all.
Do you think that, sometimes, God might be winding you up a bit, Rob? Like when he invented wasps, and gave men nipples?
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So what, in your opinion, is the message being delivered here, and what leads you to that conclusion?
I have no idea.
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I can see my username being used above in quotes I haven't made?!
It is the way the search engine works on the site. You must have quoted the person who used the term I was searching for.
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I have no idea.
Do you think God has disconnected his hot line to you?
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In all the subsequent years after the fact and conviction even JB has never used the 3rd party has a defence has he? he said Sheila did it.
I feel that might be a clue, to solving the issue.
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My own feeling is that Sheila wouldn't have written a suicide note. IF she killed her family and then herself, it would have been because she was behaving totally erratically as a result of illness, and writing a note wouldn't even have occurred to her.
When you say she killed her family - can you define who you mean? I think at most she killed her kids and then tried to kill herself. Maybe she fired a bullet into June, maybe Neville just to maim them.
I still think someone else kills the two parents and mercy kills Sheila for her suicide attempt has left her paralysed.
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Last one of the search finds:
From thread Re: Was Sheila shot with a rifle fitted with a silencer?
Post by John: http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=269.msg4576#msg4576
"It seems that Sheila could not have taken that first shot and she certainly didn't make the second one because she was effectively paralysed from the lacerations to her neck and spine where the bullet lodged. She would have been in excruciating pain and blood would have splattered everywhere had she still been conscious. It would also appear that the two shots were made within seconds of each other when her assailant panicked and realised she was not dead."
Ok I don't quite agree with all of that:
IMO Sheila could have taken the first shot.
IMO Sheila could not have taken second shot.
IMO there was a long period between the first and second shots, but no movement occurred. So it looks like time stood still.
Excellent observations, Robbitybob!
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One might be forgiven for believing that JB, because he never had one, had thought to cheat the devil of gaining his soul when he entered into his unholy alliance.
Gosh now we are getting technical.
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When you say she killed her family - can you define who you mean? I think at most she killed her kids and then tried to kill herself. Maybe she fired a bullet into June, maybe Neville just to maim them.
I still think someone else kills the two parents and mercy kills Sheila for her suicide attempt has left her paralysed.
It once crossed my mind that Jeremy MAY have gone on a murderous rampage with Sheila, but his intention would always have been to dispatch her, too.
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Do you think that, sometimes, God might be winding you up a bit, Rob? Like when he invented wasps, and gave men nipples?
It seems like a feeling I get when I look at that note. It's like "ask and you will receive". Just been too scared to ask. Do I really want to know? Does anyone really want to know?
How long will it take to get an answer?
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Ispy - I'm looking at the crime scene photos over on the blue forum and the gun does not appear to have a barrel protector screwed on.
Where are you getting your information from?
You’re right, Robbitybob
I made a mistake on that, and it was pointed out to me that the protector wasn’t on the end of the barrel.
But the rest of what you’ve relayed is correct.
Actually, the fact that the barrel didn’t have its protector on further proves that the silencer had been attached instead, and then removed after the killings. Jeremy probably forgot or couldn’t see the point in putting the protector on, that’s if he knew exactly where it was, anyway. Nevill always kept the silencer on the rifle, so the protector could have been anywhere in thta cupboard or even in a drawer.
Nevill was known to be meticulous with his guns. He kept them in pristine condition and always kept them secure.
He also always kept that rifle fitted with the silencer and scope so as to kill any vermin, foxes, rabbits etc as soon as he spotted them — as you know — foxes especially kill ducks, chickens, sheep, so have to be culled.
Scopes take time to fix to a rifle, as does removing one. Which is another reason Sheila couldn’t have looked for a screwdriver and with shaking hands and going berserk, carefully unattached the scope.
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To the best of my knowledge, there was no suicide note, encrypted or otherwise, written by Sheila.
No, there wasn’t, April
There was just some handwritten short notes in June’s handwriting which she jotted out for her Bible teaching at church.
Had there been a suicide note by Sheila Taff would have been the first to seize it as an exhibit, and it would’ve been splashed in the papers too.
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I was telling the forum yesterday of how the Lord can help in some cases and when I look at the "suicide note" left by Sheila I would think it will take the "Mind of God" to decipher what she meant by it all.
With all due respect, Robbitybob, that note was written by June who was extremely religious and also taught readings to students at church,
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No, there wasn’t, April
There was just some handwritten short notes in June’s handwriting which she jotted out for her Bible teaching at church.
Had there been a suicide note by Sheila Taff would have been the first to seize it as an exhibit, and it would’ve been splashed in the papers too.
Which is very different from the one which Robertybobertybooboo is talking about. June's is a biblical text, presumably an aide de memoire for her next bible study group. The one being spoken of is a series of letters and numbers looking like children's scrawl.
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Do you think God has disconnected his hot line to you?
It would be a pretty special event to be told the meaning of a mystery like that. Have you ever read the old testament? It would compare to the message that Daniel interpreted for the King of Babylon. What did he have to do before that happened?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belshazzar%27s_feast - it is a story and a half, but what we want to do is similar.
With all due respect, Robbitybob, that note was written by June who was extremely religious and also taught readings to students at church,
Was it June's writing. There isn't much to go on with. The blue forum called it "NOTE FOUND IN SHEILA´S ROOM AT WHF" so I tend to think it is Sheila's rather than June's.
Poking out of the Bible I see a note. Are you getting confused between the two?
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It is the way the search engine works on the site. You must have quoted the person who used the term I was searching for.
Yes that's right but the person who I was quoting isn't mentioned so please be careful as it appears I'm the originator of the words when they are the words of the person I'm quoting.
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It seems like a feeling I get when I look at that note. It's like "ask and you will receive". Just been too scared to ask. Do I really want to know? Does anyone really want to know?
How long will it take to get an answer?
Sorry, Rob, are we talking about the scrap of paper with the numbers on? I've seen some right cobblers written about that note, but I think it was writing practice for at least one of the boys.
(Please could you try and get me the lottery numbers?)
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Yes that's right but the person who I was quoting isn't mentioned so please be careful as it appears I'm the originator of the words when they are the words of the person I'm quoting.
If you follow the whole thread you will find I always went back to the original post, not the person who quotes the original.
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Sorry, Rob, are we talking about the scrap of paper with the numbers on? I've seen some right cobblers written about that note, but I think it was writing practice for at least one of the boys.
(Please could you try and get me the lottery numbers?)
I'm first in line for the Lotto numbers sorry.
If you think someone has tried to decipher Sheila's note please give me the cite and I'll have a look at it.
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It would be a pretty special event to be told the meaning of a mystery like that. Have you ever read the old testament? It would compare to the message that Daniel interpreted for the King of Babylon. What did he have to do before that happened?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belshazzar%27s_feast - it is a story and a half, but what we want to do is similar.
Was it June's writing. There isn't much to go on with. The blue forum called it "NOTE FOUND IN SHEILA´S ROOM AT WHF" so I tend to think it is Sheila's rather than June's.
Poking out of the Bible I see a note. Are you getting confused between the two?
Blue attached significance to it, but it can hardly be described as a "note" It's very possible an adult wrote out letters/numbers for one of the boys to copy. The adult could have June or Sheila. It's not the same one that was found in June's bible.
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I'm first in line for the Lotto numbers sorry.
If you think someone has tried to decipher Sheila's note please give me the cite and I'll have a look at it.
If you're ploughing your way through blue, you'll find it all (by the usual suspects).
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Which is very different from the one which Robertybobertybooboo is talking about. June's is a biblical text, presumably an aide de memoire for her next bible study group. The one being spoken of is a series of letters and numbers looking like children's scrawl.
Yes, I realise that now — I’ve only just seen that one
It looks to me like the children were practicing writing letters and numbers
M - mummy
D - Daddy
D - Daniel
N - Nicholas
G - Grandpa
G - Granny
J - Jeremy
Can’t remember the rest but it’s pretty obvious...
Oh, the number 3...maybe one of them had trouble writing it down
I seem to remember reading that Sheila was slightly concerned because one of the twins wrote some letters/numbers back to front occasionally, which is quite common
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Thanks for all those comments on this thread. It is as much a mystery to me as well.
But last night I became convinced Sheila couldn't manage the second shot. The day before I had posted that she could have fired the second shot. I've changed my tune, and it was the post by Ispy that allowed this to happen for her head was jammed up against that cabinet, and the angle of the penetration (trajectory) couldn't match the barrel of the gun unless someone else was holding it to the left of her.
So who fired the second shot?
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It would be a pretty special event to be told the meaning of a mystery like that. Have you ever read the old testament? It would compare to the message that Daniel interpreted for the King of Babylon. What did he have to do before that happened?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belshazzar%27s_feast - it is a story and a half, but what we want to do is similar.
Was it June's writing. There isn't much to go on with. The blue forum called it "NOTE FOUND IN SHEILA´S ROOM AT WHF" so I tend to think it is Sheila's rather than June's.
Poking out of the Bible I see a note. Are you getting confused between the two?
Yes, I wrongly thought you were talking about the note in June’s Bible
I understand now, Bob
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If you're ploughing your way through blue, you'll find it all (by the usual suspects).
I’ve only looked at the blue site once and it seemed filled with fruitcakes, nuts and trolls...
They must all be barking
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Yes, I realise that now — I’ve only just seen that one
It looks to me like the children were practicing writing letters and numbers
M - mummy
D - Daddy
D - Daniel
N - Nicholas
G - Grandpa
G - Granny
J - Jeremy
Can’t remember the rest but it’s pretty obvious...
Oh, the number 3...maybe one of them had trouble writing it down
I seem to remember reading that Sheila was slightly concerned because one of the twins wrote some letters/numbers back to front occasionally, which is quite common
Think you may have made a more reasonable and acceptable interpretation than was managed on blue!!!
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Anthony Pargeter.
https://jeremybamber.org/anthony-pargeter/
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I’ve only looked at the blue site once and it seemed filled with fruitcakes, nuts and trolls...
They must all be barking
@)(++(* 8((()*/
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When you say she killed her family - can you define who you mean? I think at most she killed her kids and then tried to kill herself. Maybe she fired a bullet into June, maybe Neville just to maim them.
I still think someone else kills the two parents and mercy kills Sheila for her suicide attempt has left her paralysed.
I was referring to all of them: her parents, the twins and herself-----IF she did it, and I wouldn't put my hand up and say she did.
Your theory is interesting!
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When you say she killed her family - can you define who you mean? I think at most she killed her kids and then tried to kill herself. Maybe she fired a bullet into June, maybe Neville just to maim them.
I still think someone else kills the two parents and mercy kills Sheila for her suicide attempt has left her paralysed.
You mean Sheila just so happened by complete coincidenceto become suicidal and murdererous on the same night some unknown hitman broke in to murder her parents?
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You mean Sheila just so happened by complete coincidence to become suicidal and murderous on the same night some unknown hitman broke in to murder her parents?
Whether that was arranged or coincidental is a matter yet to be discovered.
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Whether that was arranged or coincidental is a matter yet to be discovered.
You think maybe Sheila hired the hitman and then decided to kill her kids herself?
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Think you may have made a more reasonable and acceptable interpretation than was managed on blue!!!
Having glanced at it once when Aunt Agatha put a link up, and seeing how weird they all seemed I can well imagine how they made those children’s scribblings into a suicide note written by Sheila.
What’s troubling about that bunch is how they dedicate so much time to Sheila’s mental health, yet fail to see that it’s now 2020 and it’s their own mental issues they should be concentrating on and seeking help for.
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You think maybe Sheila hired the hitman and then decided to kill her kids herself?
How many cleaning jobs would that take to pay a hitman, Bob?
And how was he going to get paid by Sheila once he’d killed her?
Daft question, I know...
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You think maybe Sheila hired the hitman and then decided to kill her kids herself?
That thought has never crossed my mind. It will take some time to work it out.
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How many cleaning jobs would that take to pay a hitman, Bob?
And how was he going to get paid by Sheila once he’d killed her?
Daft question, I know...
The hitman could have been paid in advance, but more likely the hitman was hoping to get paid via the wills.
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That thought has never crossed my mind. It will take some time to work it out.
A split second should do it.
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A split second should do it.
It could but can someone really prove it as a fact. Easy to say Jeremy did it. That only took a second but there is no proof that he actually did it, other than saying they had agreed it was either Sheila or Jeremy. That to me was a mistake for who make that proclamation?
it could be Sheila, Jeremy, or someone else.
And since it appears that Sheila was incapacitated by the first shot she could not have fired the second that killed her. So she is not the terminal killer, even though it was possible she had killed her sons and intended to kill herself but failed.
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The hitman could have been paid in advance, but more likely the hitman was hoping to get paid via the wills.
With everyone dead ... that only leaves Jeremy. So your rather convoluted 'hit-man' notion goes full circle and arrives back at the point of confirming his conviction. In my opinion.
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With everyone dead ... that only leaves Jeremy. So your rather convoluted 'hit-man' notion goes full circle and arrives back at the point of confirming his conviction. In my opinion.
I had the initial feeling that Jermey was called to the farm so IMO he too was on the hitman's "hit list".
But Jeremy calls the police and makes sure the police get there ahead of him so to prevent himself from being targetted by a potential hitman.
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The hitman could have been paid in advance, but more likely the hitman was hoping to get paid via the wills.
Hang on a minute!!! If he shot them all, how was he going to get a pay out? Did he think he'd get a pay out as a thank-you?
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Hang on a minute!!! If he shot them all, how was he going to get a pay out? Did he think he'd get a pay out as a thank-you?
How was Jeremy going to get rewarded? Could there be someone else also looking for a reward through the same means?
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How was Jeremy going to get rewarded? Could there be someone else also looking for a reward through the same means?
There's deffo easier ways of grabbing a few quid than exterminating an entire family.
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Having glanced at it once when Aunt Agatha put a link up, and seeing how weird they all seemed I can well imagine how they made those children’s scribblings into a suicide note written by Sheila.
What’s troubling about that bunch is how they dedicate so much time to Sheila’s mental health, yet fail to see that it’s now 2020 and it’s their own mental issues they should be concentrating on and seeking help for.
There's no evidence that Bamber supporters have any more mental health issues than anyone else.
However, some interesting contributions coming forth on this thread-------including a number of yours!
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I had the initial feeling that Jermey was called to the farm so IMO he too was on the hitman's "hit list".
But Jeremy calls the police and makes sure the police get there ahead of him so to prevent himself from being targetted by a potential hitman.
If you believe there was a call -and it sounds as if you're claiming it as a fact- it's entirely possible that having got back to Bourtree, cleaned himself up and calmed himself down, he then decided that he'd left enough time between the deed and his next step in his plan, to call the police. In which case, unless there is evidence of the abortive calls he made to various local police stations, in all likelihood, he didn't make any call for assistance until after he'd informed Julie of the state of play.
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Anthony Pargeter.
https://jeremybamber.org/anthony-pargeter/
Have you moved away from the idea CC was responsible and now considering AP?
You're sounding more like Mike or Grahame from the Blue forum and I'm wondering if we've been infiltrated ?>)()<
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If you believe there was a call -and it sounds as if you're claiming it as a fact- it's entirely possible that having got back to Bourtree, cleaned himself up and calmed himself down, he then decided that he'd left enough time between the deed and his next step in his plan, to call the police. In which case, unless there is evidence of the abortive calls he made to various local police stations, in all likelihood, he didn't make any call for assistance until after he'd informed Julie of the state of play.
You sound very suspicious of Jeremy, but have you tried to prove him wrong? Those police stations he called may have been unmanned at that time of the morning.
Have you moved away from the idea CC was responsible and now considering AP?
You're sounding more like Mike or Grahame from the Blue forum and I'm wondering if we've been infiltrated ?>)()<
Look there is no other like Robittybob1. I have never said Colin did it. All I wanted to know is whether he had been questioned and given his alibi.
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How was Jeremy going to get rewarded? Could there be someone else also looking for a reward through the same means?
Did Taff have an alibi?
He was awfully keen to point the finger at Sheila...
Maybe he and Jeremy were a secret item?
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Did Taff have an alibi?
He was awfully keen to point the finger at Sheila...
Maybe he and Jeremy were a secret item?
I have no ideas about that sorry.
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You sound very suspicious of Jeremy, but have you tried to prove him wrong? Those police stations he called may have been unmanned at that time of the morning.
Look there is no other like Robittybob1. I have never said Colin did it. All I wanted to know is whether he had been questioned and given his alibi.
Quelle surprise!!! How does one prove a negative?
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Quelle surprise!!! How does one prove a negative?
take a different tact.
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take a different tact.
Why would I bother when I'm convinced that he's guilty. I've done the innocent bit so I've seen both sides of the coin.
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Why would I bother when I'm convinced that he's guilty. I've done the innocent bit so I've seen both sides of the coin.
you were talking about proving something. As scientists, we tend to prove things by designing tests.
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you were talking about proving something. As scientists, we tend to prove things by designing tests.
Scientist don't necessarily agree, even when given the same facts.
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Scientist don't necessarily agree, even when given the same facts.
Run more tests then till they do agree.
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Run more tests then till they do agree.
That's called fudging.
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That's called fudging.
Now I require a cite since you made a debatable statement of fact that I dispute. I'm offended in fact that you call that fudging. Go wash your mouth out with soap and water.
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Now I require a cite since you made a debatable statement of fact that I dispute. I'm offended in fact that you call that fudging. Go wash your mouth out with soap and water.
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Thank you.