UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: John on May 24, 2013, 07:36:07 PM
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They do say that the truth hurts and going by the recent behavior of some posters that would certainly appear to be the case. One member has just accused the forum of hosting lies so I as senior editor am challenging that person to back up their allegation or withdraw their remark.
I await the proof with interest!
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They do say that the truth hurts and going by the recent behavior of some posters that would certainly appear to be the case. One member has just accused the forum of hosting lies so I as senior editor am challenging that person to back up their allegation.
I await the proof with interest!
Make a pot of coffee or tea, settle down, munch some cookies, you may be in for a long wait. @)(++(* >@@(*&)
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They do say that the truth hurts and going by the recent behavior of some posters that would certainly appear to be the case. One member has just accused the forum of hosting lies so I as senior editor am challenging that person to back up their allegation.
I await the proof with interest!
Make a pot of coffee or tea, settle down, munch some cookies, you may be in for a long wait. @)(++(* >@@(*&)
Not to worry, it is a gorgeous evening so I am off to cut the lawn. Back later to answer all those lies.
Looking forward to a fun read. Happy mowing. 8((()*/
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Mistakes are mistakes. But lies are damned lies. I have seen a few outrageously libellous posts, which were effectively lies ?8)@)-)
But I aint seen any from Admin
Waiting for the sparks to fly .......!
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I reckon Admin on this site are even handed and circumspect
They may delete one out two of my posts
But that's their prerogative - it's their gig - and the posts are probably carp anyhow
Why they allow notorious disruptors on here? - only they will know
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I reckon Admin on this site are even handed and circumspect
They may delete one out two of my posts
But that's their prerogative - it's their gig - and the posts are probably carp anyhow
Why they allow notorious disruptors on here? - only they will know
As you say, registrar, they are indeed even handed. I suppose it's that 'free speech' thing, so-and-so may not agree with me but he/she has the right to state his/her opinion. Where it falls down is when the insults and bad language start, which then escalates. Arguing a point is one thing, insulting someone's integrity, religion, sex etc is not. I don't do social networking but have read some appalling posts on them, especially on twitter.
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I reckon Admin on this site are even handed and circumspect
They may delete one out two of my posts
But that's their prerogative - it's their gig - and the posts are probably carp anyhow
Why they allow notorious disruptors on here? - only they will know
As you say, registrar, they are indeed even handed. I suppose it's that 'free speech' thing, so-and-so may not agree with me but he/she has the right to state his/her opinion. Where it falls down is when the insults and bad language start, which then escalates. Arguing a point is one thing, insulting someone's integrity, religion, sex etc is not. I don't do social networking but have read some appalling posts on them, especially on twitter.
My own views aside, everyone is most welcome to post their views on this forum as long as it is done within the rules. Arguments do sometimes occur which is inevitable in a subject such as this so all any editor or moderator can do is edit or delete posts and warn the offenders that such behaviour is not acceptable. I must say though that members are well behaved for the most part and usually come back the next day with a fresh perspective.
The members are also to be congratulated for their knowledge and commitment to the search for the truth in the Madeleine McCann case. I have no doubt that jointly and severally the members are just as well versed if not more than the very police which are tasked with investigating this case.
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Can I add my bit please.
I am so impressed by the way that members have collected and analysed legal documents. You know who you are. Well done all of you.
Can I also say that I admire the way that a number of [ censored word] have fought their battle. It cant have been easy, because they are in the minority on here. Hopefully in this lull, some of them will read back and re-assess what they previously believed based upon these analyses.
.... rather than the myths that were, and still are, circulating.
See todays Mail report: http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1632.0
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I reckon Admin on this site are even handed and circumspect
They may delete one out two of my posts
But that's their prerogative - it's their gig - and the posts are probably carp anyhow
Why they allow notorious disruptors on here? - only they will know
As you say, registrar, they are indeed even handed. I suppose it's that 'free speech' thing, so-and-so may not agree with me but he/she has the right to state his/her opinion. Where it falls down is when the insults and bad language start, which then escalates. Arguing a point is one thing, insulting someone's integrity, religion, sex etc is not. I don't do social networking but have read some appalling posts on them, especially on twitter.
My own views aside, everyone is most welcome to post their views on this forum as long as it is done within the rules. Arguments do sometimes occur which is inevitable in a subject such as this so all any editor or moderator can do is edit or delete posts and warn the offenders that such behaviour is not acceptable. I must say though that members are well behaved for the most part and usually come back the next day with a fresh perspective.
The members are also to be congratulated for their knowledge and commitment to the search for the truth in the Madeleine McCann case. I have no doubt that jointly and severally the members are just as well versed if not more than the very police which are tasked with investigating this case.
I really hope that you are wrong, John.
Pointing out that some people insist on repeating media myths from 2007-2008 which have been proven to be manifestly untrue or are at least very dodgy is one thing (and - judging from leaks, would seem to equate to the initial team's thinking). However, the review is ongoing with presumably much more information than any of us know about.
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I have no doubt that jointly and severally the members are just as well versed if not more than the very police which are tasked with investigating this case.
That's a very damning statement.
I can't imagine that forum posters who only have a part of the files that were released can possibly know more than the police that investigated the case.
Or can I?
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We are not authorised to investigate crimes, as far as I know, none of us are. Discussing known case facts on a forum is a different matter, dispelling myths is to be applauded as there has been far too much of those in this case. But that's where it ends, IMO.
I'm not willing to delude myself into believing that I, or anyone else for that matter, have ALL the facts relating to this case, I certainly don't. Or we risk ending up like the delusional twitterers who think Scotland Yard is hanging on to their every word, relying on their frankly insane "theories" (including everything from dead dogs, non existing volcanoes & cloning) as a means to solve the case. We don't have access to classified information relating to child predators, personal information regarding witnesses involved etc.
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I have no doubt that jointly and severally the members are just as well versed if not more than the very police which are tasked with investigating this case.
That's a very damning statement.
I can't imagine that forum posters who only have a part of the files that were released can possibly know more than the police that investigated the case.
Or can I?
Unlike us - not only do SY have the complete and professionally translated files, they can also interview witnesses if the need arises.
Although I do think the ability of some of our posters to corroberate their claims with evidence found from within 1000s of pages of statements and files is remarkable.
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I agree with both previous posters
We are Joe/Jill average - some posters may claim to be retired cops/solicitors even forensic scientists - but they've all been flushed out as frauds over time.
But it IS an open debate - both Goncalo Amaral and Kate McCann have published books for commercial gain on the subject.
Neither camp can now complain about Joe/Jill average discussing their written efforts.
They invited the debate.
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I think there might be one crucial point missed in what John said (sic)
I have no doubt that jointly and severally the members are just as well versed if not more than the very police which are tasked with investigating this case.
For instance, there might be bits and pieces I've picked up that Carana may have missed, or vice versa, and individually, the same might be true for each of us.
But if you combine the sum of everything we all know, that (conceivably) might exceed the sum (total) knowledge of the met team, who announced a (comparatively) short time ago that they had assessed only a quarter of the material.
I'm sure they are much further on than that now, but are clearly assimilating everything slowly, thoroughly and methodically.
When they've finished, their sum knowledge will certainly exceed ours.
But that may not be true yet ...
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I tend to agree with that
as ordinary commentators - we are allowed flights of fancy - I think of this as a basic, democratic right of expression
perchance those flights might just lead to the heart of the matter
The combined might of PJ/LP and NSY may lead to an absolute result over time
Holding my breath - I shall not be doing
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Don't kid yourselves guys into thinking that SY has its best detectives on this case and that they are in possession of some striking new evidence because they aren't. There is no way SY or any other police force will ever solve this case because there is simply no will to do so. Sitting on their backsides in London will never achieve anything. As with so many other abductees who have come in from the cold, they have done so through their own efforts, they were not detected by police or any other agencies who in most cases gave them up for dead long ago.
The Portuguese will not reopen this case which is their way of saying we haven't a baldy clue where to go from here. I agree with them because the trail went cold 6 years ago. There isn't a single person who has ever been shown to have had any involvement in Maddie's abduction. All they have are dead end trails and suspects who are all entirely innocent of any involvement.
NSY is currently involved in a damage limitation exercise. Release a few snippets of information to the baying wolves at Fleet Street and that will keep them happy for a while longer. You only need to look at the stories which have hit the front pages over the last week relating to Maddie and you will realise that it is all supposition and speculation. Keep the public in suspense and thinking that some magic breakthrough is just around the corner...it isn't!! I can tell you now that SY has nothing of any consequence, they are as much in the dark as they were 6 years ago. This situation will endure too for as long as the Portuguese continue to refuse to reopen the case. Without Portuguese cooperation SY are helpless to do anything of any consequence in the case.
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Don't kid yourselves guys into thinking that SY has its best detectives on this case and that they are in possession of some striking new evidence because they aren't. There is no way SY or any other police force will ever solve this case because there is simply no will to do so. Sitting on their backsides in London will never achieve anything. As with so many other abductees who have come in from the cold, they have done so through their own efforts, they were not detected by police or any other agencies who in most cases gave them up for dead long ago.
The Portuguese will not reopen this case which is their way of saying we haven't a baldy clue where to go from here. I agree with them because the trail went cold 6 years ago. There isn't a single person who has ever been shown to have had any involvement in Maddie's abduction. All they have are dead end trails and suspects who are all entirely innocent of any involvement.
NSY is currently involved in a damage limitation exercise. Release a few snippets of information to the baying wolves at Fleet Street and that will keep them happy for a while longer. You only need to look at the stories which have hit the front pages over the last week relating to Maddie and you will realise that it is all supposition and speculation. Keep the public in suspense and thinking that some magic breakthrough is just around the corner...it isn't!! I can tell you now that SY has nothing of any consequence, they are as much in the dark as they were 6 years ago. This situation will endure too for as long as the Portuguese continue to refuse to reopen the case. Without Portuguese cooperation SY are helpless to do anything of any consequence in the case.
John, are you in a cynical mood? ;)
- Obviously the Met doesn't have a smoking gun at the moment.
- The tabloids have May marked on their calendar as "Maddie" month - so they were clearly going to need to fill space. Even if it means rehashing whatever is in their dusty files.
Re the police:
- Establishing what should have been more thoroughly investigated six years ago is laudable; figuring out how to advance is no doubt somewhat more complicated.
- I don't really understand the criticism about the Met sitting in London. There is a certain amount that they can do from there, but they just can't barge into another country's archived investigation and reactivate it.
- There are legal issues in Portugal: it won't be reopened unless there is credible evidence, but unless it's reopened, potential leads (in Portugal) can't be investigated to see whether they are credible or not.
The Met (and the PJ homologues) may well be following up what they can - if only to eliminate what can be eliminated.
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Don't kid yourselves guys into thinking that SY has its best detectives on this case and that they are in possession of some striking new evidence because they aren't. There is no way SY or any other police force will ever solve this case because there is simply no will to do so. Sitting on their backsides in London will never achieve anything. As with so many other abductees who have come in from the cold, they have done so through their own efforts, they were not detected by police or any other agencies who in most cases gave them up for dead long ago.
The Portuguese will not reopen this case which is their way of saying we haven't a baldy clue where to go from here. I agree with them because the trail went cold 6 years ago. There isn't a single person who has ever been shown to have had any involvement in Maddie's abduction. All they have are dead end trails and suspects who are all entirely innocent of any involvement.
NSY is currently involved in a damage limitation exercise. Release a few snippets of information to the baying wolves at Fleet Street and that will keep them happy for a while longer. You only need to look at the stories which have hit the front pages over the last week relating to Maddie and you will realise that it is all supposition and speculation. Keep the public in suspense and thinking that some magic breakthrough is just around the corner...it isn't!! I can tell you now that SY has nothing of any consequence, they are as much in the dark as they were 6 years ago. This situation will endure too for as long as the Portuguese continue to refuse to reopen the case. Without Portuguese cooperation SY are helpless to do anything of any consequence in the case.
John, are you in a cynical mood? ;)
- Obviously the Met doesn't have a smoking gun at the moment.
- The tabloids have May marked on their calendar as "Maddie" month - so they were clearly going to need to fill space. Even if it means rehashing whatever is in their dusty files.
Re the police:
- Establishing what should have been more thoroughly investigated six years ago is laudable; figuring out how to advance is no doubt somewhat more complicated.
- I don't really understand the criticism about the Met sitting in London. There is a certain amount that they can do from there, but they just can't barge into another country's archived investigation and reactivate it.
- There are legal issues in Portugal: it won't be reopened unless there is credible evidence, but unless it's reopened, potential leads (in Portugal) can't be investigated to see whether they are credible or not.
The Met (and the PJ homologues) may well be following up what they can - if only to eliminate what can be eliminated.
I'm bound to concede.
I'm more heartened by Carana's assessment than John's.
And realistically, I can't see the Met review as merely some sort of window-dressing exercise, although I suppose that is what it will amount to if the Portuguese point blank refuse to re-open the case ...
Fervently hoping not, as I'm sure John is ...
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Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia. When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain. I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed. These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.
As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch! They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts? This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?
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Don't kid yourselves guys into thinking that SY has its best detectives on this case and that they are in possession of some striking new evidence because they aren't. There is no way SY or any other police force will ever solve this case because there is simply no will to do so. Sitting on their backsides in London will never achieve anything. As with so many other abductees who have come in from the cold, they have done so through their own efforts, they were not detected by police or any other agencies who in most cases gave them up for dead long ago.
The Portuguese will not reopen this case which is their way of saying we haven't a baldy clue where to go from here. I agree with them because the trail went cold 6 years ago. There isn't a single person who has ever been shown to have had any involvement in Maddie's abduction. All they have are dead end trails and suspects who are all entirely innocent of any involvement.
NSY is currently involved in a damage limitation exercise. Release a few snippets of information to the baying wolves at Fleet Street and that will keep them happy for a while longer. You only need to look at the stories which have hit the front pages over the last week relating to Maddie and you will realise that it is all supposition and speculation. Keep the public in suspense and thinking that some magic breakthrough is just around the corner...it isn't!! I can tell you now that SY has nothing of any consequence, they are as much in the dark as they were 6 years ago. This situation will endure too for as long as the Portuguese continue to refuse to reopen the case. Without Portuguese cooperation SY are helpless to do anything of any consequence in the case.
John, are you in a cynical mood? ;)
- Obviously the Met doesn't have a smoking gun at the moment.
- The tabloids have May marked on their calendar as "Maddie" month - so they were clearly going to need to fill space. Even if it means rehashing whatever is in their dusty files.
Re the police:
- Establishing what should have been more thoroughly investigated six years ago is laudable; figuring out how to advance is no doubt somewhat more complicated.
- I don't really understand the criticism about the Met sitting in London. There is a certain amount that they can do from there, but they just can't barge into another country's archived investigation and reactivate it.
- There are legal issues in Portugal: it won't be reopened unless there is credible evidence, but unless it's reopened, potential leads (in Portugal) can't be investigated to see whether they are credible or not.
The Met (and the PJ homologues) may well be following up what they can - if only to eliminate what can be eliminated.
I'm bound to concede.
I'm more heartened by Carana's assessment than John's.
And realistically, I can't see the Met review as merely some sort of window-dressing exercise, although I suppose that is what it will amount to if the Portuguese point blank refuse to re-open the case ...
Fervently hoping not, as I'm sure John is ...
I don't think that it is a window-dressing exercise, either, but for a variety of reasons...
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John, I think that the Mccanns are behaving very well. SY are in charge now and they are keeping out of the way.
They did their initial search in a different way to some. Having physically exhausted all the sensible places to look in the vicinity, they thought in an 'encompassing everything' sort of way. They listened to advice and acted accordingly ... posters, letters, appeals. later the media involvement, publicity, kept themselves physically fit, and mentally supported by the church. When it became obvious that people wanted to send money in, they set up the search fund, formed a committee and the HTFM group of volunteers.
Then they took advice and employed Metodo, followed unhappily by a fraudster and finally the two PI's. They constantly found new ways to publicise Madeleines disappearance. These things dont happen without a huge amount of thought, dedication and effort.
They did all this whilst dragged down by sorrow, whilst being stalked and hounded by Bennett and his cohorts ... and with Kate at obviously near, or actually in, breakdown. ?8)@)-) 8)><(
Right from the start they had a stalwart group of people backing them 8@??)(, but think of the way they must have been dragged down / destroyed by a vociferous mass of people, many jealous low-lives, who could see no good in them and continually criticized them; tried to destroy them. 8(8-))
Even called them murderers, of their own daughter.... and even insinuated that Gerry had an unhealthy relationship with Madeleine, so had to kill her before she started school and blurted it all out 8()(((@#.
I could go on ... but I will leave it there.
They were magnificent. I suspect that Gerry was the driving force
These things dont happen without a load of work. Yes, they made some mistakes, but they searched alright. Their search was in a more planned and a more advanced way than many of us would have been capable of.
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Just out of curiosity, have they gone on Portuguese and Spanish TV to publicise the abduction of Madeleine and if not, why not? If Madeleine is still alive the chances are she is still on the Iberian Peninsula somewhere. Have they ever been to Oporto for example or any other major Portuguese towns to promote the search for Maddie? I believe the answer is NO!
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Just out of curiosity, have they gone on Portuguese and Spanish TV to publicise the abduction of Madeleine and if not, why not? If Madeleine is still alive the chances are she is still on the Iberian Peninsula somewhere. Have they ever been to Oporto for example or any other major Portuguese towns to promote the search for Maddie? I believe the answer is NO!
Yes I'm sure they did John ... in fact there is very well known interview on ( Spanish ? ) TV
Gerry is asked about his reaction to the dogs' evidence and rips his microphone off before storming out ... leaving Kate alone, to excuse and apologise for him ( it's bound to be on youtube somewhere )
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John
Everything that I seem to have found leads to Porto area initially.
It has pleased me that SY are at Porto, but it may have nothing to do with my findings. That I dont know.
Others may know better than me about Spain and Portugal. They certainly made a big effort in PdL when they put up notices. Many were sadly defaced or torn down. Some sickos around !!!
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Just out of curiosity, have they gone on Portuguese and Spanish TV to publicise the abduction of Madeleine and if not, why not? If Madeleine is still alive the chances are she is still on the Iberian Peninsula somewhere. Have they ever been to Oporto for example or any other major Portuguese towns to promote the search for Maddie? I believe the answer is NO!
Yes I'm sure they did John ... in fact there is very well known interview on ( Spanish ? ) TV
Gerry is asked about his reaction to the dogs' evidence and rips his microphone off before storming out ... leaving Kate alone, to excuse and apologise for him ( it's bound to be on youtube somewhere )
Yes, I saw that particular interview for what it was worth. What a muppet...so embarrassing for Kate. If that was their best effort in appealing for help from the Spanish or Portuguese people then I rest my case. They spent far too long wasting time around PDL after Madeleine was abducted, they should have widened the appeal to take in the whole of Portugal.
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Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia. When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain. I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed. These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.
As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch! They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts? This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?
A valid view - whichever way you look at it 'Team McCann' did very little by way of searching - physical searching that is.
Both are fit and healthy - their running activities all known to us.
We have pictorial evidence of GNR looking into bins, members of the public looking down wells, hell even microlights scouring the area above Luz - none of those pictures feature G&K - the only exception to my recollection - Gerry taking a stroll down the rocks adjoining the church in Luz.
HERE comes the lobbed grenade - what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?
'She'll give you her tuppence worth - keep her warm' etc.
Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's and that curious Ward of Court set up - that to my knowledge has hitherto only been done in camera - not in front of flashing cameras.
It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'.
No need to kayak the Algarve coast - if you're certain the child is with uncle and auntie (say) and won't be hurt.
Just put out a big prize money (the fund) and wait for them to come to you - all anonymously.
A trade off
Tin hat at the ready
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Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia. When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain. I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed. These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.
As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch! They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts? This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?
A valid view - whichever way you look at it 'Team McCann' did very little by way of searching - physical searching that is.
Both are fit and healthy - their running activities all known to us.
We have pictorial evidence of GNR looking into bins, members of the public looking down wells, hell even microlights scouring the area above Luz - none of those pictures feature G&K - the only exception to my recollection - Gerry taking a stroll down the rocks adjoining the church in Luz.
HERE comes the lobbed grenade - what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?
'She'll give you her tuppence worth - keep her warm' etc.
Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's and that curious Ward of Court set up - that to my knowledge has hitherto only been done in camera - not in front of flashing cameras.
It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'.
No need to kayak the Algarve coast - if you're certain the child is with uncle and auntie (say) and won't be hurt.
Just put out a big prize money (the fund) and wait for them to come to you - all anonymously.
A trade off
Tin hat at the ready
Conspiracy theories are rarely valid ... the truth is almost always quite simple in the end
I'm interested in your theory though ( and not in an abstract way ... I am genuinely interested )
Do you feel up to sharing ?
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Sorry pal
that's it in a nutshell
WoC/the much publicised fund - we had daily updates on how much dosh had been raised - and the eagerness to put their phone number in the public domain
made this poster query matters McCann
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I'm interested in this conveniently forgotten reward fund which doesn't feature any longer and which the McCanns refuse to discuss or answer any questions about. In fact they don't appear to want to answer any questions at all these days unless it is carefully choreographed. Strange for a couple who claim to be willing to do anything to find their missing daughter? Hmm... >@@(*&)
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Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia. When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain. I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed. These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.
As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch! They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts? This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?
A valid view - whichever way you look at it 'Team McCann' did very little by way of searching - physical searching that is.
Both are fit and healthy - their running activities all known to us.
We have pictorial evidence of GNR looking into bins, members of the public looking down wells, hell even microlights scouring the area above Luz - none of those pictures feature G&K - the only exception to my recollection - Gerry taking a stroll down the rocks adjoining the church in Luz.
HERE comes the lobbed grenade - what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?
'She'll give you her tuppence worth - keep her warm' etc.
Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's and that curious Ward of Court set up - that to my knowledge has hitherto only been done in camera - not in front of flashing cameras.
It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'.
No need to kayak the Algarve coast - if you're certain the child is with uncle and auntie (say) and won't be hurt.
Just put out a big prize money (the fund) and wait for them to come to you - all anonymously.
A trade off
Tin hat at the ready
Conspiracy theories are rarely valid ... the truth is almost always quite simple in the end
I'm interested in your theory though ( and not in an abstract way ... I am genuinely interested )
Do you feel up to sharing ?
This is not a new theory/idea - it's an old, typical anti theory - Madeleine being "allowed" to be abducted by someone who genuinely wanted her (her parents could no longer be bothered with her because they now had the twins/she was hyperactive/ she had some imperfection (take your pick) for which not a shred of evidence exists.
8()(((@#
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Oh Gerry searched alright. How much, I dont know. I well remember photos of him with a man (was it his brother in Law) searching the cracks in the cliffs, and also between the boulders below on the beach near Rocha Negro.
I bet that Kate was told not to search, distressed, children to look after, the possibility of seeing the decomposing body of her first born. Kates health has been very frail.
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If they didn't "search" at all how come this GNR officer saw them both out in the street early the morning after Madeleine disappeared? I suppose we better get the tin hats out, because he must obviously be in on it.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAULO-NETO.htm
They searched, but IMO, it wouldn't have mattered anyway, she was most likely not even in Portugal at that point.
The rest of the day BOTH the parents spent in the police office being questioned, according to the files.
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When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide
Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.
Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/
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If they didn't "search" at all how come this GNR officer saw them both out in the street early the morning after Madeleine disappeared? I suppose we better get the tin hats out, because he must obviously be in on it.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAULO-NETO.htm
They searched, but IMO, it wouldn't have mattered anyway, she was most likely not even in Portugal at that point.
The rest of the day BOTH the parents spent in the police office being questioned, according to the files.
Can anyone imagine 100s of reporters, starved of any info from the police, just standing quietly back and allowing them to search? I don't think so.
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When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide
Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.
Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/
Isn't this what happened with April Jones parents?
-
When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide
Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.
Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/
Isn't this what happened with April Jones parents?
It's what happened with the McCann couple too, they spent the rest of the time at the police station answering questions just after she went missing. Still, earlier than that, they were out in the streets of PDL searching. People still deliberately "misunderstand" the "I didn't physically search" interview quote from Kate McCann.
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I remember standing in the middle of the chaos thinking, I wish I had a book to tell me what to do.
- Colleen Nick
That guide is 114 pages long.
-
When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide
Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.
Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/
Isn't this what happened with April Jones parents?
It's what happened with the McCann couple too, they spent the rest of the time at the police station answering questions just after she went missing. Still, earlier than that, they were out in the streets of PDL searching. People still deliberately "misunderstand" the "I didn't physically search" interview quote from Kate McCann.
I understand that the police prefer one parent to stay in the place the child, if they have wandered off, will try and return to, so that there will be a recognisable point of contact. I do not think that a child would be very receptive to a total stranger waiting for her/him on their return. The mother, rather than the father, would be the first and obvious choice.
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SNIP?-
Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's
It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'. -/SNIP/-
If I saw the way that the PJ had set people up using torture
If I saw the way that the PJ were NOT looking for my daughter
If I saw the way the PJ were trying to fit me up
If I knew that people wre afraid of the fascist PJ and probably frightened to contact them
Then I would want information to come to me, direct. I would display my phone number, big and bold ... everywhere
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When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide
Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.
Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/
Isn't this what happened with April Jones parents?
It's what happened with the McCann couple too, they spent the rest of the time at the police station answering questions just after she went missing. Still, earlier than that, they were out in the streets of PDL searching. People still deliberately "misunderstand" the "I didn't physically search" interview quote from Kate McCann.
Indeed. IIRC Nowhere in that interview is Kate asked about the searching she and Gerry did - or M.Warner's search procedure - only whether she felt she had wanted to join in with the searches, which went on for a long time in the days afterwards by the locals. Im sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong but from memory - her immediate reply was ..'Well, I did' - which apparently to some people means 'No I didn't'.
Any physical searching by the McCanns would have been impractical anyway because of the hordes of media people who had descended on PdL.
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Returning to John's original post on here, has a response been given? We need to know!! Puffin >@@(*&)
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When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide
Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.
Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/
Isn't this what happened with April Jones parents?
It's what happened with the McCann couple too, they spent the rest of the time at the police station answering questions just after she went missing. Still, earlier than that, they were out in the streets of PDL searching. People still deliberately "misunderstand" the "I didn't physically search" interview quote from Kate McCann.
Indeed. IIRC Nowhere in that interview is Kate asked about the searching she and Gerry did - or M.Warner's search procedure - only whether she felt she had wanted to join in with the searches, which went on for a long time in the days afterwards by the locals. Im sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong but from memory - her immediate reply was ..'Well, I did' - which apparently to some people means 'No I didn't'.
Any physical searching by the McCanns would have been impractical anyway because of the hordes of media people who had descended on PdL.
And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?
Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.
The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.
A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.
-
Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia. When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain. I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed. These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.
As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch! They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts? This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?
A valid view - whichever way you look at it 'Team McCann' did very little by way of searching - physical searching that is.
Both are fit and healthy - their running activities all known to us.
We have pictorial evidence of GNR looking into bins, members of the public looking down wells, hell even microlights scouring the area above Luz - none of those pictures feature G&K - the only exception to my recollection - Gerry taking a stroll down the rocks adjoining the church in Luz.
HERE comes the lobbed grenade - what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?
'She'll give you her tuppence worth - keep her warm' etc.
Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's and that curious Ward of Court set up - that to my knowledge has hitherto only been done in camera - not in front of flashing cameras.
It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'.
No need to kayak the Algarve coast - if you're certain the child is with uncle and auntie (say) and won't be hurt.
Just put out a big prize money (the fund) and wait for them to come to you - all anonymously.
A trade off
Tin hat at the ready
Conspiracy theories are rarely valid ... the truth is almost always quite simple in the end
I'm interested in your theory though ( and not in an abstract way ... I am genuinely interested )
Do you feel up to sharing ?
This is not a new theory/idea - it's an old, typical anti theory - Madeleine being "allowed" to be abducted by someone who genuinely wanted her (her parents could no longer be bothered with her because they now had the twins/she was hyperactive/ she had some imperfection (take your pick) for which not a shred of evidence exists.
8()(((@#
Where does it imply the parents 'allowed' an abduction in my post?
Reread and apologise for a deliberate misinterpretation at your leisure please.
I don't know whether you are from England/Wales - but you might want to read up on when WoC is used in 90% of cases.
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Returning to John's original post on here, has a response been given? We need to know!! Puffin >@@(*&)
No...no response or retraction from the member concerned.
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Sadie posted:
quote
Oh Gerry searched alright. How much, I dont know. I well remember photos of him with a man (was it his brother in Law) searching the cracks in the cliffs, and also between the boulders below on the beach near Rocha Negro.
I bet that Kate was told not to search, distressed, children to look after, the possibility of seeing the decomposing body of her first born. Kates health has been very frail.
unquote
not that frail
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRC0nG0lIU9FsU1d3uco006f8DzIO2xUl2Lxb-9CIoHjEIFqRa_6g)
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Returning to John's original post on here, has a response been given? We need to know!! Puffin >@@(*&)
No...no response or retraction from the member concerned.
That's a bit rude of him/her, John, but maybe your comments struck a raw nerve? Ah, well, what can one say? Doesn't no retraction up the banning ante?
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Sadie posted:
quote
Oh Gerry searched alright. How much, I dont know. I well remember photos of him with a man (was it his brother in Law) searching the cracks in the cliffs, and also between the boulders below on the beach near Rocha Negro.
I bet that Kate was told not to search, distressed, children to look after, the possibility of seeing the decomposing body of her first born. Kates health has been very frail.
unquote
not that frail
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRC0nG0lIU9FsU1d3uco006f8DzIO2xUl2Lxb-9CIoHjEIFqRa_6g)
I am not talking about her physical health, but about what it did to her:
1) Losing Madeleine
2) Being made an arguido and being put on the rack by the PJ
3) Having to put up with cruel unsubstantiated accusations from lowlifes who should have known better, but prefer to behave like Fascists and put the boot in at every opportunity
Nothing wrong with going jogging with Gerry. Probably the only time that they could talk privately to each other and discuss the case.
Also beneficial healthwise.
http://endurate.com/2012/01/16/seven-psychological-benefits-of-running/
As doctors they would know this
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http://endurate.com/2012/01/16/seven-psychological-benefits-of-running/
Seven Psychological Benefits of Running
Running has been recommended by many doctors and therapists to people who are in the quest to improving their mental health. This is because running, like other exercises, unquestionably takes care of the mental health as efficiently as it does to oneís physical well-being. There are many psychological benefits of running, but here are the seven most cited:
1. Reduces stress and anxiety
Runners are known to be less stressed and are more able to deal with their daily stressors effectively. This is attributed to the fact that running refreshes their thoughts, keeps their minds off worries, and gives them ample and undistracted time to think, reflect, and concentrate. In addition, according to some reports, running is more efficient in addressing anxieties better than medications.
2. Enhances mood
When running, the body produces a substance called endorphin (endogenous morphine) that creates a different sense of euphoria. This state of euphoria is called runnerís high basically because after running, individuals are in a good mood, are happier, and indescribably feel better. Runnerís high is also believed to be responsible for the runnersí seeming ìaddictionî to running: Because they are always intensely post-euphoric, runners keep running every chance they get.
3. Improves confidence
The sense of achievement after finishing a run or completing a target distance boosts the runnersí confidence. This is especially true of people who are naturally competitive they regularly sign up for marathons and other running events. Improved confidence also comes to people who have noticeably lost weight and achieved more toned and firmer muscles through running.
4. Fights addiction
Running is conceived to be a natural tranquilizer, which is why therapists recommend it to those who are battling with their addiction. Many successful stories have been documented, saying that recovering patients use the time they would otherwise spend to satisfy their addiction in running. Through running, patients also become mentally stronger to resist the urge of alcohol, drugs, or anything they feel addicted to.
5. Develops mental alertness and focus
Because running keeps the mind on the ìnow,î the mind is trained to focus and concentrate. Running also relieves mental fatigue, sharpens memory, and improves overall mental stamina. Runners, in effect, are found to have better problem-solving skills and are more mentally alert than before.
6. Relieves depression
Running is found successful in treating clinical depression. The act of running, according to therapists, serves as a psychotherapy, which gives the patients their own space to heal and connect with their selves better. They also say it is a good distraction from all depressing things. Other than depression, physicians also find running an effective therapy for people with other types of psychological disorders.
The coordination of mind and body is improved with regular running. Whether running on a flat, paved surface or on an uneven trail, the mind is trained to harmoniously work with the body to prevent stumbling and tripping over. Like the other psychological benefits of running, better mind-body coordination is important in daily activities.
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And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?
Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.
The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.
A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.
You find your child missing in a foreign country and are convinced she's been abducted.
You contact the police.
Then what?
You DON'T
- contact your consulate for help?
- try to contact anyone who may be able to help?
- try to get her details publicised as fast and as widely as possible?
What would you have done differently once you'd discovered your child missing?
-
And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?
Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.
The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.
A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.
You find your child missing in a foreign country and are convinced she's been abducted.
You contact the police.
Then what?
You DON'T
- contact your consulate for help?
- try to contact anyone who may be able to help?
- try to get her details publicised as fast and as widely as possible?
What would you have done differently once you'd discovered your child missing?
Whilst all the above action points are of value,
I would NOT have jetted off to the Vatican, Germany and Morocco for pointless photo ops.
I would NOT have created a 'Team McCann' thus rendering the search impersonable and corporate
I would NOT have gone jogging
I CERTAINLY would have not returned my remaining children to the OC's creche the day after the disappearance of my first born.
I CERTAINLY would have not written a book explaining my physical relationship with my partner and mentioning my missing child's genitalia in graphic detail (a book intended for the twins - remember?)
All those things I would NOT have done
Does that answer your question?
-
And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?
Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.
The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.
A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.
You find your child missing in a foreign country and are convinced she's been abducted.
You contact the police.
Then what?
You DON'T
- contact your consulate for help?
- try to contact anyone who may be able to help?
- try to get her details publicised as fast and as widely as possible?
What would you have done differently once you'd discovered your child missing?
8@??)(
-
And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?
Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.
The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.
A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.
You find your child missing in a foreign country and are convinced she's been abducted.
You contact the police.
Then what?
You DON'T
- contact your consulate for help?
- try to contact anyone who may be able to help?
- try to get her details publicised as fast and as widely as possible?
What would you have done differently once you'd discovered your child missing?
Whilst all the above action points are of value,
I would NOT have jetted off to the Vatican, Germany and Morocco for pointless photo ops.
I would NOT have created a 'Team McCann' thus rendering the search impersonable and corporate
I would NOT have gone jogging
I CERTAINLY would have not returned my remaining children to the OC's creche the day after the disappearance of my first born.
I CERTAINLY would have not written a book explaining my physical relationship with my partner and mentioning my missing child's genitalia in graphic detail (a book intended for the twins - remember?)
All those things I would NOT have done
Does that answer your question?
I have never been in that situation, and I hope that you haven't either.
Have a quiet read of that booklet (it was the fruit of several families who HAVE been through such situations).
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if you read back - I was invited to suggest what I would or would not do in that scenario.
I did not create the premise.
I took part in a discussion.
-
odd how this thread has become yet another knock the Mccanns threads.
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if you read back - I was invited to suggest what I would or would not do in that scenario.
I did not create the premise.
I took part in a discussion.
Fair comment. Can we change the wording of the question then? What would you DO (as opposed to wouldn't do) in such circumstances that would be so different (bearing in mind the advice in the booklet)?
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if you read back - I was invited to suggest what I would or would not do in that scenario.
I did not create the premise.
I took part in a discussion.
Fair comment. Can we change the wording of the question then? What would you DO (as opposed to wouldn't do) in such circumstances that would be so different (bearing in mind the advice in the booklet)?
Considering I was with my partner and a group of seven friends (all familiar with Madeleine)
I would have reception call GNR as a matter of urgency
Grabbed all the torches available at reception and local bars and restaurants - and started SEARCHING
I would not have doodled a 'timeline' in the missing child's colouring book.
SKY News or the consulate would have been of secondary importance at that moment in time.
Clear enough reply?
ETA they do have torch lights in the Algarve, here, Gerry's first words to the press:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avf4jHNuzPU
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Yes, I agree I am in a cynical mood tonight but I have seen what goes on from the perspective of both sides and in both the UK and Iberia. When I read that article which was posted this morning about that poor woman who lost her daughter only to be tortured by the out of control PJ while Amaral stood and watched it brought it all back as to what I myself experienced in Spain. I saw the Guardia beat people for no justifiable reason, I saw prison guards beat a shackled man face down in a bed. These are not fictional events guys, they go on every single day in civilised Spain and Portugal.
As far as SY and the Met is concerned, I stand by my original post...they have zilch! They have already wasted £millions chasing ghosts. I find myself agreeing with their critics at times, if the McCanns were really interested in finding their daughter why weren't they on the ground searching for her where it counts? This may be controversial but have they given up on finding her?
A valid view - whichever way you look at it 'Team McCann' did very little by way of searching - physical searching that is.
Both are fit and healthy - their running activities all known to us.
We have pictorial evidence of GNR looking into bins, members of the public looking down wells, hell even microlights scouring the area above Luz - none of those pictures feature G&K - the only exception to my recollection - Gerry taking a stroll down the rocks adjoining the church in Luz.
HERE comes the lobbed grenade - what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?
'She'll give you her tuppence worth - keep her warm' etc.
Couple that with the instant need to publish THEIR phone number right away, alongside the PJ's and that curious Ward of Court set up - that to my knowledge has hitherto only been done in camera - not in front of flashing cameras.
It all goes back to the words of Justice Hogg 'I ponder this person'.
No need to kayak the Algarve coast - if you're certain the child is with uncle and auntie (say) and won't be hurt.
Just put out a big prize money (the fund) and wait for them to come to you - all anonymously.
A trade off
Tin hat at the ready
Conspiracy theories are rarely valid ... the truth is almost always quite simple in the end
I'm interested in your theory though ( and not in an abstract way ... I am genuinely interested )
Do you feel up to sharing ?
This is not a new theory/idea - it's an old, typical anti theory - Madeleine being "allowed" to be abducted by someone who genuinely wanted her (her parents could no longer be bothered with her because they now had the twins/she was hyperactive/ she had some imperfection (take your pick) for which not a shred of evidence exists.
8()(((@#
Where does it imply the parents 'allowed' an abduction in my post?
Reread and apologise for a deliberate misinterpretation at your leisure please.
I don't know whether you are from England/Wales - but you might want to read up on when WoC is used in 90% of cases.
Where does it imply the parents 'allowed' an abduction in my post?
what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?
-
if you read back - I was invited to suggest what I would or would not do in that scenario.
I did not create the premise.
I took part in a discussion.
Fair comment. Can we change the wording of the question then? What would you DO (as opposed to wouldn't do) in such circumstances that would be so different (bearing in mind the advice in the booklet)?
Considering I was with my partner and a group of seven friends (all familiar with Madeleine)
I would have reception call GNR as a matter of urgency
Someone did.
Grabbed all the torches available at reception and local bars and restaurants - and started SEARCHING
The missing child protocol was activated. They needed the torches. Staff were even ringing up off-duty colleagues to try to get extra ones.
I would not have doodled a 'timeline' in the missing child's colouring book.
It was Russ who was trying to collate a timeline at whatever time of night.
SKY News or the consulate would have been of secondary importance at that moment in time.
Aside from consular contact, Rachael got hold of a friend whose husband worked for the BBC. David Payne sent an email to Sky via another holiday-maker's computer.
Clear enough reply?
Recall how Gerry read out his first response to the media in the glow of a torch - light? They do have them in the Algarve you know.
That first media response wasn't on the night in question.
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'The missing child protocol was activated'
oh goody that did a load of good then - NOT
You don't work for Mark Warner perchance?
-
When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide
Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.
Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/
Isn't this what happened with April Jones parents?
It's what happened with the McCann couple too, they spent the rest of the time at the police station answering questions just after she went missing. Still, earlier than that, they were out in the streets of PDL searching. People still deliberately "misunderstand" the "I didn't physically search" interview quote from Kate McCann.
Indeed. IIRC Nowhere in that interview is Kate asked about the searching she and Gerry did - or M.Warner's search procedure - only whether she felt she had wanted to join in with the searches, which went on for a long time in the days afterwards by the locals. Im sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong but from memory - her immediate reply was ..'Well, I did' - which apparently to some people means 'No I didn't'.
Any physical searching by the McCanns would have been impractical anyway because of the hordes of media people who had descended on PdL.
And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?
Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.
The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.
A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.
The media arrived the following day - they were not invited by the McCanns. The only contact that had been made to the media at that point was for the sole purpose of bringing Madeleine's abduction to the attention of the public as soon as possible. Are you saying that was wrong?
Anyway, none of that has any bearing on my comment that it would not have been possible for the McCanns to go out searching - because they would have been immediately surrounded by the waiting reporters and photographers. I've no doubt that they were advised not to even attempt it.
-
'The missing child protocol was activated'
oh goody that did a load of good then - NOT
You don't work for Mark Warner perchance?
what if G&K had a very good idea of who spirited the child away?
-
'The missing child protocol was activated'
oh goody that did a load of good then - NOT
You don't work for Mark Warner perchance?
No. What do you find strange? Missing child alerts are to help find... a missing child.
-
When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide
Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.
Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/
Isn't this what happened with April Jones parents?
It's what happened with the McCann couple too, they spent the rest of the time at the police station answering questions just after she went missing. Still, earlier than that, they were out in the streets of PDL searching. People still deliberately "misunderstand" the "I didn't physically search" interview quote from Kate McCann.
Indeed. IIRC Nowhere in that interview is Kate asked about the searching she and Gerry did - or M.Warner's search procedure - only whether she felt she had wanted to join in with the searches, which went on for a long time in the days afterwards by the locals. Im sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong but from memory - her immediate reply was ..'Well, I did' - which apparently to some people means 'No I didn't'.
Any physical searching by the McCanns would have been impractical anyway because of the hordes of media people who had descended on PdL.
And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?
Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.
The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.
A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.
The media arrived the following day - they were not invited by the McCanns. The only contact that had been made to the media at that point was for the sole purpose of bringing Madeleine's abduction to the attention of the public as soon as possible. Are you saying that was wrong?
Anyway, none of that has any bearing on my comment that it would not have been possible for the McCanns to go out searching - because they would have been immediately surrounded by the waiting reporters and photographers. I've no doubt that they were advised not to even attempt it.
On the night and early morning - they did. But they had to wait for the GNR, give them as much info as possible, get photos organised, wait for the PJ...
The next day (after their early morning search), they were at the Portimão station all day.
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When Your Child Goes Missing: Survival Guide
Your Role in the Search:The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of thesearch, devote your time to providing informationto and answering questions from investigators.
Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want tohelp with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.
http://madeleinemccannthetruth.wordpress.com/2013/05/20/when-your-child-goes-missing/
Isn't this what happened with April Jones parents?
It's what happened with the McCann couple too, they spent the rest of the time at the police station answering questions just after she went missing. Still, earlier than that, they were out in the streets of PDL searching. People still deliberately "misunderstand" the "I didn't physically search" interview quote from Kate McCann.
Indeed. IIRC Nowhere in that interview is Kate asked about the searching she and Gerry did - or M.Warner's search procedure - only whether she felt she had wanted to join in with the searches, which went on for a long time in the days afterwards by the locals. Im sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong but from memory - her immediate reply was ..'Well, I did' - which apparently to some people means 'No I didn't'.
Any physical searching by the McCanns would have been impractical anyway because of the hordes of media people who had descended on PdL.
And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?
Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.
The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.
A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.
The media arrived the following day - they were not invited by the McCanns. The only contact that had been made to the media at that point was for the sole purpose of bringing Madeleine's abduction to the attention of the public as soon as possible. Are you saying that was wrong?
Anyway, none of that has any bearing on my comment that it would not have been possible for the McCanns to go out searching - because they would have been immediately surrounded by the waiting reporters and photographers. I've no doubt that they were advised not to even attempt it.
On the night and early morning - they did. But they had to wait for the GNR, give them as much info as possible, get photos organised, wait for the PJ...
The next day (after their early morning search), they were at the Portimão station all day.
Exactly - and it was on their return from the police station that evening that they were confronted with ...''what seemed like hundreds of press and TV crews, five or six deep '' (page 118 Kates book)
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So all the day accounted for and exhuasted, people clamouring to speak to them. . How could they search?
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So all the day accounted for and exhuasted, people clamouring to speak to them. . How could they search?
They jogged for miles days later - unemcumbered by hordes of press
Do you dispute this?
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So all the day accounted for and exhuasted, people clamouring to speak to them. . How could they search?
They jogged for miles days later - unemcumbered by hordes of press
Do you dispute this?
How would you know that - without seeing pictures of them taken by PRESS photographers! I believe arrangements were made to give the McCanns some privacy - in exchange for arranged 'briefings' . Although because the secrecy laws - apart from appealing for Madeleine's safe return there was nothing they could say to the Press.
I don't know why you have a problem with jogging. After my neighbour took his 19 yr old daughter a cup of tea up in bed - and found her dead, (an undiagnosed heart problem) he took to jogging early every morning. He would run for miles. His wife who was previously a very bubbly sociable person became a virtual recluse for months. Both dealt with their grief in their own way. There are no do's and don'ts.
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The thread seems to have been about the immediate two days after the abduction. Has it changed now?
They were totally tied up for two days weren't they?
Then registrar, they are doctors, they did their search after the initial hours mainly via the intellectual route. The Physical search had been pretty much exhausted. They used their brains, very little point in going over all the places others had looked
But Gerry and was it ?Sandy definitely searched the rocks and cliff around Rocha Negro. That was recorded on photographs. It wasn't just a strioll along the beach as you made out.
God only knows when else they searched that wasn't recorded. Cos it wasn't recorded, doesn't mean it didn't happen
My bet is that Gerry was also researching detectives, lawyers, what to do when your child goes missing etc, along with comforting Kate and trying to be as normal as possible with the twins. At the same time juggling with all the people who kindly wanted to help and the media and fetching family and friends from Faro airport.
good thing that they looked after their mental and physical health by jogging. Also gave them a chance to discuss things away from prying ears and the twins.
Dont know how Gerry did it all, tbh
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So all the day accounted for and exhuasted, people clamouring to speak to them. . How could they search?
They jogged for miles days later - unemcumbered by hordes of press
Do you dispute this?
How would you know that - without seeing pictures of them taken by PRESS photographers! I believe arrangements were made to give the McCanns some privacy - in exchange for arranged 'briefings' . Although because the secrecy laws - apart from appealing for Madeleine's safe return there was nothing they could say to the Press.
I don't know why you have a problem with jogging. After my neighbour took his 19 yr old daughter a cup of tea up in bed - and found her dead, (an undiagnosed heart problem) he took to jogging early every morning. He would run for miles. His wife who was previously a very bubbly sociable person became a virtual recluse for months. Both dealt with their grief in their own way. There are no do's and don'ts.
There are no do's and dont's. I can verify that, having lost my nine year old to a brain tumour. You just do your best.
What I did have all along was tremendous support from everyone. No-one carped about any imaginary ways that I/we did things wrong ... and we made some mistakes. Everyone does in a new diabolical happening such as losing a child.
I repeat
EVERY ONE GAVE US THEIR LOVE and SUPPORT. They were wonderful.
So unlike the cruelty shown over the years to The Mccanns
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So all the day accounted for and exhuasted, people clamouring to speak to them. . How could they search?
They jogged for miles days later - unemcumbered by hordes of press
Do you dispute this?
How would you deal with stress relief, surrounded by the media and well-meaning family and friends, but who may be momentarily stifling?
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So all the day accounted for and exhuasted, people clamouring to speak to them. . How could they search?
They jogged for miles days later - unemcumbered by hordes of press
Do you dispute this?
How would you know that - without seeing pictures of them taken by PRESS photographers! I believe arrangements were made to give the McCanns some privacy - in exchange for arranged 'briefings' . Although because the secrecy laws - apart from appealing for Madeleine's safe return there was nothing they could say to the Press.
I don't know why you have a problem with jogging. After my neighbour took his 19 yr old daughter a cup of tea up in bed - and found her dead, (an undiagnosed heart problem) he took to jogging early every morning. He would run for miles. His wife who was previously a very bubbly sociable person became a virtual recluse for months. Both dealt with their grief in their own way. There are no do's and don'ts.
There are no do's and dont's. I can verify that, having lost my nine year old to a brain tumour. You just do your best.
What I did have all along was tremendous support from everyone. No-one carped about any imaginary ways that I/we did things wrong ... and we made some mistakes. Everyone does in a new diabolical happening such as losing a child.
I repeat
EVERY ONE GAVE US THEIR LOVE and SUPPORT. They were wonderful.
So unlike the cruelty shown over the years to The Mccanns
Aw, Sadie, so sorry to read that. That must have been so awful. Support must have been so precious, even if it didn't help with the pain.
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So all the day accounted for and exhuasted, people clamouring to speak to them. . How could they search?
They jogged for miles days later - unemcumbered by hordes of press
Do you dispute this?
How would you deal with stress relief, surrounded by the media and well-meaning family and friends, but who may be momentarily stifling?
If I had felt the need to do physical jerks after such an ordeal
I could have done sit ups and press ups in the apt.- well outside the range of camera lenses
Nope - the McCanns felt a need to present themselves - they always have
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Thank you Carana.
People were wonderful
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So all the day accounted for and exhuasted, people clamouring to speak to them. . How could they search?
They jogged for miles days later - unemcumbered by hordes of press
Do you dispute this?
How would you deal with stress relief, surrounded by the media and well-meaning family and friends, but who may be momentarily stifling?
If I had felt the need to do physical jerks after such an ordeal
I could have done sit ups and press ups in the apt.- well outside the range of camera lenses
Nope - the McCanns felt a need to present themselves - they always have
That's the jerks way 8(0(*, the Mccanns way was different
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And I hope your blind faith shall be rewarded over time
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Thank you registrar
I hope thet we are all rewarded with good news
But my faith isn't blind. No-one has examined both ways more than me. Just cannot see any way that the Mum and Dad could have been involved
Convince me.
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So all the day accounted for and exhuasted, people clamouring to speak to them. . How could they search?
They jogged for miles days later - unemcumbered by hordes of press
Do you dispute this?
How would you know that - without seeing pictures of them taken by PRESS photographers! I believe arrangements were made to give the McCanns some privacy - in exchange for arranged 'briefings' . Although because the secrecy laws - apart from appealing for Madeleine's safe return there was nothing they could say to the Press.
I don't know why you have a problem with jogging. After my neighbour took his 19 yr old daughter a cup of tea up in bed - and found her dead, (an undiagnosed heart problem) he took to jogging early every morning. He would run for miles. His wife who was previously a very bubbly sociable person became a virtual recluse for months. Both dealt with their grief in their own way. There are no do's and don'ts.
There are no do's and dont's. I can verify that, having lost my nine year old to a brain tumour. You just do your best.
What I did have all along was tremendous support from everyone. No-one carped about any imaginary ways that I/we did things wrong ... and we made some mistakes. Everyone does in a new diabolical happening such as losing a child.
I repeat
EVERY ONE GAVE US THEIR LOVE and SUPPORT. They were wonderful.
So unlike the cruelty shown over the years to The Mccanns
I'm so sorry to hear that Sadie - that must have been such a painful time for you and your family. Having been bereaved myself I know how much I appreciated the love and support you talk of. It meant everything.
Looking back - I can see that I did some pretty weird things at times - grief does do strange things to people. But no-one ever criticised me or tried to stop me getting through it in my own way and at my own pace.
To criticise and sneer at the McCanns for dealing with THEIR pain in the way that was best for THEM - is both ignorant and cruel. imo.
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...
Removed, wrong thread
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Thank you Benice.
I agree with you. Criticizing and sneering at the Mccanns is both ignorant and cruel and it shows a complete lack of empathy.
I can think of few things more despicable.
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Thank you Benice.
I agree with you. Criticizing and sneering at the Mccanns is both ignorant and cruel and it shows a complete lack of empathy.
I can think of few things more despicable.
So criticism of the McCanns and their behaviour is out of bounds?
Is that what you are telling us Sadie?
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Sadie posted:
quote
Oh Gerry searched alright. How much, I dont know. I well remember photos of him with a man (was it his brother in Law) searching the cracks in the cliffs, and also between the boulders below on the beach near Rocha Negro.
I bet that Kate was told not to search, distressed, children to look after, the possibility of seeing the decomposing body of her first born. Kates health has been very frail.
unquote
not that frail
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRC0nG0lIU9FsU1d3uco006f8DzIO2xUl2Lxb-9CIoHjEIFqRa_6g)
As a retired Mental Health professional I have known many very fit people who had frail health!
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And do remind us why hordes of media people had descended on Luz?
Yep right because of Team McCann and their PR juggernaut activities.
The parents can't have it both ways - they can't invite the worldwide media - and then dictate to them what to report.
A certain Diana Spencer learnt this to her cost.
You find your child missing in a foreign country and are convinced she's been abducted.
You contact the police.
Then what?
You DON'T
- contact your consulate for help?
- try to contact anyone who may be able to help?
- try to get her details publicised as fast and as widely as possible?
What would you have done differently once you'd discovered your child missing?
Whilst all the above action points are of value,
I would NOT have jetted off to the Vatican, Germany and Morocco for pointless photo ops.
I would NOT have created a 'Team McCann' thus rendering the search impersonable and corporate
I would NOT have gone jogging
I CERTAINLY would have not returned my remaining children to the OC's creche the day after the disappearance of my first born.
I CERTAINLY would have not written a book explaining my physical relationship with my partner and mentioning my missing child's genitalia in graphic detail (a book intended for the twins - remember?)
All those things I would NOT have done
Does that answer your question?
All that maybe true. People are different. You are different to the McCanns. Big News Story? NO!
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Diabolically insensitive and downright cruel to destroy a couple of people who have lost their child.
No finger of suspicion on them by the PT authorities, nor the British ones. Time to leave them alone. Tha accusations that have happened should never have happened.
Blaming people with no real knowledge of them ... or the exact circumstances.
Guilty ... until proven innocent
Fascism ... in the raw.
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I thoroughly concur with both above posts by Debunker and Sadie.
Faceless, anonymous people on the internet have no right to pass judgement on the McCanns, particularly as there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on their part.
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I thoroughly concur with both above posts by Debunker and Sadie.
Faceless, anonymous people on the internet have no right to pass judgement on the McCanns, particularly as there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on their part.
Me too. It's a new and very nasty form of bullying. When, years ago, tormenting a person verbally and even beating up on them was done in the open, the victim could fight back. But now there is no way most of the time that the victim can respond, which is why we have seen teenagers kill themselves. I see there are moves ahead to limit the radical preachers from spouting hate on TV but that doesn't stop hatred being spewed forth on the internet. People want free speech, and that is to be applauded, but the systematic demonising of people by those who do not know them, never met them but pick up on the more salacious and cruel posts of others should never be the norm. A shame, because it devalues the human race. By all means let's have polite, constructive debate, argument etc, but descending into bad language, threats etc cannot and should not be tolerated.
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I thoroughly concur with both above posts by Debunker and Sadie.
Faceless, anonymous people on the internet have no right to pass judgement on the McCanns, particularly as there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on their part.
Me too. It's a new and very nasty form of bullying. When, years ago, tormenting a person verbally and even beating up on them was done in the open, the victim could fight back. But now there is no way most of the time that the victim can respond, which is why we have seen teenagers kill themselves. I see there are moves ahead to limit the radical preachers from spouting hate on TV but that doesn't stop hatred being spewed forth on the internet. People want free speech, and that is to be applauded, but the systematic demonising of people by those who do not know them, never met them but pick up on the more salacious and cruel posts of others should never be the norm. A shame, because it devalues the human race. By all means let's have polite, constructive debate, argument etc, but descending into bad language, threats etc cannot and should not be tolerated.
Agree. And there is plenty of evidence of wrong doing on the part of the faceless, anonymous McCann "skeptics" online. Some of which could easily be classed as downright harassment. I sometimes wonder why the McCanns didn't take that route with Bennett & his gang, instead of faffing around with court agreements etc. That's one thing I certainly would have done differently from them.