UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Angelo222 on May 30, 2013, 10:44:37 AM
-
We have explored this question in another thread to some extent but I suggest it is too important to not have its own thread.
I have seen posters make all sorts of excuses why the McCanns should not go back to Portugal ranging from fear of reprisals to financial hardship through to their inability to speak Portuguese. My answer to those arguments is that they are merely excuses. There is no reason whatsoever why one or both of them cannot spend time in Portugal and even Spain looking for their daughter. They won't find her in Rothley or Rome!!
They were given money by the public to help in the search for Madeleine, money which has already paid for fraudster investigators and funded libel actions against newspapers. How much has even been used to search for Madeleine properly?
My suggestion is that they get off their backsides and start looking for her properly. Tour the countries, elicit the help of the local press and population, get a reward out there and get on with it!!
-
Is Madeleine still in Portugal then Angelo? How long do you suggest they do this for? Should they perhaps do a year in Portugal, a year in Spain, a year in Morocco, a year in Germany, etc until they find her? Or how about using specialist detectives who are trained to find missing people?
K&G employed the idiots of Metodo 3
Their coffers would have provided for proper investigators like Pinkerton's
What that this tell you?
-
Strange, Pinkerton's don't seem to claim they are specialists in finding abducted children, in fact, it's hard to find any PIs who do.
-
What a waste of bandwidth. There is nothing an individual search can accomplish.
you have lost your spark haven't you debunker?
-
Strange, Pinkerton's don't seem to claim they are specialists in finding abducted children, in fact, it's hard to find any PIs who do.
Strange you favour Metodo 3
but maybe not
-
What a waste of bandwidth. There is nothing an individual search can accomplish.
you have lost your spark haven't you debunker?
A very defeatist attitude by Debunker. Could the McCanns be similarly demotivated?
-
LOL Is anyone suggesting that the McCann hired the PIs because they KNEW they weren't any good?
Basically, nobody can present any evidence of any wrongdoing relating the fund or anything else for that matter, so we end up with this constant whining about what they SHOULD have done differently.
-
Is Madeleine still in Portugal then Angelo? How long do you suggest they do this for? Should they perhaps do a year in Portugal, a year in Spain, a year in Morocco, a year in Germany, etc until they find her? Or how about using specialist detectives who are trained to find missing people?
You can be dam sure of one thing Martha and that is that she is more likely to be in Portugal than in Rothley or even England for that matter. The time they should spend out in Portugal is not the issue, the issue is that they should be there looking for her. How Gerry can go to work as normal every day is unfathomable when his daughter is out there somewhere and needs his help. If it was my child I would be doing everything possible to find her but then my name isn't Gerry McCann clinical specialist.
In a nutshell, many people find their total lack of empathy for their stolen child to be morally reprehensible. End off!!
-
I have a slightly different suggestion, Angelo.
Imagine that you're Gerry McCann at 22:10 in a foreign country and have just discovered that your child has disappeared, seemingly abducted.
Why not lead us through what you would have done differently from then on?
-
LOL Is anyone suggesting that the McCann hired the PIs because they KNEW they weren't any good?
Basically, nobody can present any evidence of any wrongdoing relating the fund or anything else for that matter, so we end up with this constant whining about what they SHOULD have done differently.
I wouldn't have thought so but they have had poor advisers that's for sure. 8(0(*
-
LOL Is anyone suggesting that the McCann hired the PIs because they KNEW they weren't any good?
Basically, nobody can present any evidence of any wrongdoing relating the fund or anything else for that matter, so we end up with this constant whining about what they SHOULD have done differently.
I wouldn't have thought so but they have had poor advisers that's for sure. 8(0(*
At that point I do agree with you, however, as far as Halligen is concerned, a lot of people, including large corporations, got taken in by that crook, not only the McCann.
-
I have a slightly different suggestion, Angelo.
Imagine that you're Gerry McCann at 22:10 in a foreign country and have just discovered that your child has disappeared, seemingly abducted.
Why not lead us through what you would have done differently from then on?
Yes, that's an interesting proposition.
-
You've lost the plot Angelo. Seriously.
Not at all, I am not an apologist for the McCanns like you appear to be. I mentioned yesterday that the Needhams and the Fitzpatricks are to be applauded for their tireless search for their child which in the end proved fruitless. At least they got out there and did something. What have the McCanns done???
-
I have a slightly different suggestion, Angelo.
Imagine that you're Gerry McCann at 22:10 in a foreign country and have just discovered that your child has disappeared, seemingly abducted.
Why not lead us through what you would have done differently from then on?
I have no gripe with what they did immediately on finding her gone but I do with what they did immediately after the arguido status was lifted. The perception is that they scuttled off home like scared rats. Harsh but true.
-
I have a slightly different suggestion, Angelo.
Imagine that you're Gerry McCann at 22:10 in a foreign country and have just discovered that your child has disappeared, seemingly abducted.
Why not lead us through what you would have done differently from then on?
I have no gripe with what they did immediately on finding her gone but I do with what they did immediately after the arguido status was lifted. The perception is that they scuttled off home like scared rats. Harsh but true.
Ok... so at which point do you think they went off track?
NB: They went back home way before arguido status was lifted.
-
I have a slightly different suggestion, Angelo.
Imagine that you're Gerry McCann at 22:10 in a foreign country and have just discovered that your child has disappeared, seemingly abducted.
Why not lead us through what you would have done differently from then on?
I have no gripe with what they did immediately on finding her gone but I do with what they did immediately after the arguido status was lifted. The perception is that they scuttled off home like scared rats. Harsh but true.
Not everyone is Bruce Willis in Die Hard you know. You may be a real hard man who would not be intimidated in a foreign country where it seems everyone is against you, where the police are out to nail you for a crime you didn't commit. But many people would, and would quite sensibly believe that they could do more for their missing child from a position where their security and freedom was not under threat.
And also the security of S^^n and A^^^^e..
With the PT PJ history of fitting people up for crimes they almost certainly did NOT commit, what sensible parent would put their childrens loving family future at risk?
They did the right thing coming home
No doubt about it.
-
OK, Angelo, remove the thread, if you want to, it still won't change the FACT, that its true. Sorry if that hurts.
I thought, this forum, expected anything to be backed up with proof. You got it, but you still don't believe it 8@??)(
Do you think I've got a PJ rubber stamp, on my desk?
You keep saying, if it was my Daughter, I'd do this, that and the other. Well she isn't, is she?
You would be over there, living on what? Don't say get a job, because you can't work and look for your daughter.
So you think the PJ, would give them a badge, so they could do what ever they want to find Madeleine? Yeah right!
The first time they, knocked on a door, they would be shown, dreaded police station stairs.
You expect them to drag the twins, around, with them, too? Great send the kids to a Portuguese school.
You really sound like, someone's been bending your ear.
-
You've lost the plot Angelo. Seriously.
Not at all, I am not an apologist for the McCanns like you appear to be. I mentioned yesterday that the Needhams and the Fitzpatricks are to be applauded for their tireless search for their child which in the end proved fruitless. At least they got out there and did something. What have the McCanns done???
Well, one thing the McCanns have NOT done, is stab one of Madeleine's siblings to death.
http://www.thestar.ie/star/dave-mahon-i-am-not-a-murderer/
Applaud all you want, I won't be joining in.
-
I think that the argument that McCann's should have put on a pair of stout walking boots gave up their jobs - left the twins with relatives and then just started walking around Portugal " looking " - is plainly ludicrous
whatever you think of them the fact that Maddie has remained in the news and that there is still Police actively trawling through the files today is down to their persistence in keeping things going and not just disappearing from site .
They could have just retired from view and we would not be talking about them today. The web site , and fund and other initiatives were down to them and friends and supporters who believed in them and also gave them advice in the best and most effective way to search.
-
I think that the argument that McCann's should have put on a pair of stout walking boots gave up their jobs - left the twins with relatives and then just started walking around Portugal " looking " - is plainly ludicrous
whatever you think of them the fact that Maddie has remained in the news and that there is still Police actively trawling through the files today is down to their persistence in keeping things going and not just disappearing from site .
They could have just retired from view and we would not be talking about them today. The web site , and fund and other initiatives were down to them and friends and supporters who believed in them and also gave them advice in the best and most effective way to search.
8@??)(
The Mccanns have used their brains rather than their brawn. Had they not been continually criticized, and their initiatives sometimes destroyed, by a massive seemingly orchestrated group, their method might have succeeeded ... and might still.
The thought of them marching around PT is frankly a no-brainer
So who is behind all the propaganda and disinformation being put about?
-
I think that the argument that McCann's should have put on a pair of stout walking boots gave up their jobs - left the twins with relatives and then just started walking around Portugal " looking " - is plainly ludicrous
whatever you think of them the fact that Maddie has remained in the news and that there is still Police actively trawling through the files today is down to their persistence in keeping things going and not just disappearing from site .
They could have just retired from view and we would not be talking about them today. The web site , and fund and other initiatives were down to them and friends and supporters who believed in them and also gave them advice in the best and most effective way to search.
8@??)(
The Mccanns have used their brains rather than their brawn. Had they not been continually criticized, and their initiatives sometimes destroyed, by a massive seemingly orchestrated group, their method might have succeeeded ... and might still.
The thought of them marching around PT is frankly a no-brainer
So who is behind all the propaganda and disinformation being put about?
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
Not many guesses needed, Sadie.
-
I think that the argument that McCann's should have put on a pair of stout walking boots gave up their jobs - left the twins with relatives and then just started walking around Portugal " looking " - is plainly ludicrous
whatever you think of them the fact that Maddie has remained in the news and that there is still Police actively trawling through the files today is down to their persistence in keeping things going and not just disappearing from site .
They could have just retired from view and we would not be talking about them today. The web site , and fund and other initiatives were down to them and friends and supporters who believed in them and also gave them advice in the best and most effective way to search.
Yes I totally agree....they have been successful at promoting themselves and creating a Limited Company with a big fat bank account based solely on the publics generosity but failed miserably to find Madeleine.
Now remind me?? What was it they set out to do on 4 May 2007?
-
The Mccanns have used their brains rather than their brawn. Had they not been continually criticized, and their initiatives sometimes destroyed, by a massive seemingly orchestrated group, their method might have succeeeded ... and might still.
The thought of them marching around PT is frankly a no-brainer
Why is it a no-brainer Sadie? Are they too good or unfit to go out to Portugal to search for their daughter? Is there some sinister reason why they should travel the lengths of Portugal exploring every possible lead? You said yourself that there are theories of how she could have been taken from the immediate area, is it not unreasonable to try to find her in another part of the country?
For all we know she could still be a matter of half an hour or an hour from Praia da Luz so why not create some publicity in those areas and start the locals talking? As it stands she is effectively forgotten in Portugal. Yes, the McCanns have been very successful...NOT!!
-
I think that the argument that McCann's should have put on a pair of stout walking boots gave up their jobs - left the twins with relatives and then just started walking around Portugal " looking " - is plainly ludicrous
whatever you think of them the fact that Maddie has remained in the news and that there is still Police actively trawling through the files today is down to their persistence in keeping things going and not just disappearing from site .
They could have just retired from view and we would not be talking about them today. The web site , and fund and other initiatives were down to them and friends and supporters who believed in them and also gave them advice in the best and most effective way to search.
Yes I totally agree....they have been successful at promoting themselves and creating a Limited Company with a big fat bank account based solely on the publics generosity but failed miserably to find Madeleine.
Now remind me?? What was it they set out to do on 4 May 2007?
Give statements in Portimao.
Then see Amaral, made an Arguido, at 6pm in Faro. ?>)()<
Oh and by the way, Amaral asked if he could use the press, on May the 4th. So why does he sprout off the McCanns informed the press, in Portugal?
-
The Mccanns have used their brains rather than their brawn. Had they not been continually criticized, and their initiatives sometimes destroyed, by a massive seemingly orchestrated group, their method might have succeeeded ... and might still.
The thought of them marching around PT is frankly a no-brainer
Why is it a no-brainer Sadie? Are they too good or unfit to go out to Portugal to search for their daughter? Is there some sinister reason why they should travel the lengths of Portugal exploring every possible lead? You said yourself that there are theories of how she could have been taken from the immediate area, is it not unreasonable to try to find her in another part of the country?
For all we know she could still be a matter of half an hour or an hour from Praia da Luz so why not create some publicity in those areas and start the locals talking? As it stands she is effectively forgotten in Portugal. Yes, the McCanns have been very successful...NOT!!
Like this you mean?
If 'Maddie': Man had already been identified by the Judicial
Track 'raptor' was investigated
Former employee of the Ocean Club ensures that saw suspect hiding under stairs
By: Rui Pando Gomes / José Carlos Eusebio
Today, 1:00 a.m.
He was hiding under the stairs, wearing sunglasses but the sun had already disappeared. The man suspected to have been seen by a former employee of the Ocean Club next to the apartment where the McCann couple on vacation in Praia da Luz, Lagos, one day before daughter Madeleine disappeared.
The information was revealed yesterday by the British newspaper 'Daily Mirror'. However, this track had been examined by the Judicial Police and the suspect was identified at the time. It is a tourist, of British nationality, and lives in England.
Mario Fernando, a former employee of the Ocean Club, was intrigued and conveyed his suspicions to the police in 2007. Mario, 47, made the clothes collection of apartments, in the late afternoon, May 2. And he stumbled upon a man "strange", next to Ocean Club. "I was nervous and had sunglasses but there was no reason to wear the glasses because it was dark under the stairs," he told the newspaper the former employee, known as Mario 'Laranjinha' and now makes paint jobs.
"His face is still etched in my head," said the former employee, who believes that the suspect was somehow involved in the abduction of 'Maddie'.
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/pista-de-raptor-foi-investigada
-
I think that the argument that McCann's should have put on a pair of stout walking boots gave up their jobs - left the twins with relatives and then just started walking around Portugal " looking " - is plainly ludicrous
whatever you think of them the fact that Maddie has remained in the news and that there is still Police actively trawling through the files today is down to their persistence in keeping things going and not just disappearing from site .
They could have just retired from view and we would not be talking about them today. The web site , and fund and other initiatives were down to them and friends and supporters who believed in them and also gave them advice in the best and most effective way to search.
Yes I totally agree....they have been successful at promoting themselves and creating a Limited Company with a big fat bank account based solely on the publics generosity but failed miserably to find Madeleine.
Now remind me?? What was it they set out to do on 4 May 2007?
Its all about the language - They have been very successful in promoting Madeleine and keeping her in the news - If say the fund was not a ltd company but was say into a personal bank acct and they suddenly had new home and new car - then maybe I would be more sympathetic to your view point
Granted they didn't always make the best decisions but who does - some of the people and organisations they chose to search were in hindsight crooks. But from everything I have seen they have been using the fund and their energies to try and organise and keep the campaign alive
And not all the fund as you say came from public donations - they got a load from the UK Press who libelled them
as well as the book advance - all into the fund
-
No parents' search for their missing child can ever claim to be a success until that child has been found. Angelo is criticising the McCanns because Madeleine is still missing, but why isn't he criticising ALL parents of ALL missing children who remain undiscovered?
It's really absurd. 8-)(--)
Exactly. I see the abductor, isn't criticised, or the fact that the apartment was entered, unlocked or not.
Nor is the incompetent investigation, criticised.
-
angelo said
As it stands she is effectively forgotten in Portugal.
the other day you said she is hardly mentioned in the UK press - you were wrong on that point - she has been in the UK press for years and even after all this time there have been a lot of articles this month.
And you are certainly wrong on this point too.
YES a lot of anti Mccann posters would LIKE to prefer she is forgotten - but she certainly isn't.
May I suggest that you contact the Mccanns with your plans and discuss it direct with them your obvious expertise in abduction and searches for missing children will be most welcomed by them.
-
Sorry to say this Angelo, but you have a very mean take on this.
I am glad that they have a fat bank account in case they suddenly need it. They will have taken advice and gone about it the right way, even if you and some think that they should have taken another route ... like walking around PT searching. Gawd they would need some money for that!
And, naturally some diehards would be saying, "Look at 'them' Mccanns, still in PT enjoying themselves". What you may not have noticed Angelo, is that whatever the Mccanns do is WRONG
It is all promoted by a certain set of peeps to ensure the truth doesn't come out.
Propaganda has been widely promoted, pro stuff has been whitewashed off the internet and huge quantities of anti stuff substituted. Ordinary peeps are being influenced, emotions whipped up, to hate anything to do with the Mccanns.
Why?
Something to do with this case is desperately being hidden. Something criminal and very very lucrative? And huge efforts are being made to hide it.
All the above is only my opinion, but it is based on observations
The whole anti-Mccann thing is orchestrated ... and trusting suckers in the UK are promoting it
-
You've lost the plot Angelo. Seriously.
Not at all, I am not an apologist for the McCanns like you appear to be. I mentioned yesterday that the Needhams and the Fitzpatricks are to be applauded for their tireless search for their child which in the end proved fruitless. At least they got out there and did something. What have the McCanns done???
Sorry to go off topic, but thought Angelo, should read this.
8-)(--)
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/funeral-mass-for-stab-victim-dean-fitzpatrick-suddenly-cancelled-29308538.html
FUNERAL arrangements made for Dean Fitzpatrick were suddenly cancelled this morning.
-
I have a slightly different suggestion, Angelo.
Imagine that you're Gerry McCann at 22:10 in a foreign country and have just discovered that your child has disappeared, seemingly abducted.
Why not lead us through what you would have done differently from then on?
I have no gripe with what they did immediately on finding her gone but I do with what they did immediately after the arguido status was lifted. The perception is that they scuttled off home like scared rats. Harsh but true.
Try to keep up with the case. They were still arguidos when they left Portugal and remained so or many months when they were back in England. Your grasp of simple facts calls into question your understanding of the whole affair.
Well spotted, debunker @)(++(*
Don't you just love these experts, and their reserach?
-
@ Angelo
You haven't replied to the question I asked you this morning. It's ok if you don't want to, but just in case you missed it:
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1666.msg50448#msg50448
-
I have a slightly different suggestion, Angelo.
Imagine that you're Gerry McCann at 22:10 in a foreign country and have just discovered that your child has disappeared, seemingly abducted.
Why not lead us through what you would have done differently from then on?
I have no gripe with what they did immediately on finding her gone but I do with what they did immediately after the arguido status was lifted. The perception is that they scuttled off home like scared rats. Harsh but true.
Ok... so at which point do you think they went off track?
NB: They went back home way before arguido status was lifted.
My apologies Carana as I didn't see your question before leaving. I should have made it clear that the McCanns were made arguidos on the Friday and jetted off home two days later on the Sunday in September 2007. The arguido status was lifted in July 2008. They went off track the moment they refused to answer the detectives questions at the police station. As I stated previously...the McCanns received some bad advice at that point in time as their actions have both then and now been perceived as being sinister.
-
YES a lot of anti Mccann posters would LIKE to prefer she is forgotten - but she certainly isn't.
May I suggest that you contact the Mccanns with your plans and discuss it direct with them your obvious expertise in abduction and searches for missing children will be most welcomed by them.
The only time she is ever mentioned is when some other poor little kid goes missing or when one or more are found after many years in captivity. Then there are the occasional Press Releases by the Met clearly fashioned to justify their own existence in the case at great public expense. In reality what emerges is yet more old news repackaged as if it was some great breakthrough after 6 years but all the while just more dead ends and tomorrows chip paper.
As for contacting the McCanns, a total waste of time. Seems they don't even answer their e-mails to the Find Madeleine site any more. More Bunkum. @)(++(*
-
Deleted double post
-
YES a lot of anti Mccann posters would LIKE to prefer she is forgotten - but she certainly isn't.
May I suggest that you contact the Mccanns with your plans and discuss it direct with them your obvious expertise in abduction and searches for missing children will be most welcomed by them.
The only time she is ever mentioned is when some other poor little kid goes missing or when one or more are found after many years in captivity. Then there are the occasional Press Releases by the Met clearly fashioned to justify their own existence in the case at great public expense. In reality what emerges is yet more old news repackaged as if it was some great breakthrough after 6 years but all the while just more dead ends and tomorrows chip paper.
As for contacting the McCanns, a total waste of time. Seems they don't even answer their e-mails to the Find Madeleine site any more. More Bunkum. @)(++(*
That claim is simply untrue.
Madeleine is mentioned at every anniversary for example regardless of other cases.
If news media choose to link her name to other cases how are the McCanns supposed to regulate that?
And what qualifications do you have which make you better qualified than others in the police, media etc to judge whether leads are relevant or not?
-
YES a lot of anti Mccann posters would LIKE to prefer she is forgotten - but she certainly isn't.
May I suggest that you contact the Mccanns with your plans and discuss it direct with them your obvious expertise in abduction and searches for missing children will be most welcomed by them.
The only time she is ever mentioned is when some other poor little kid goes missing or when one or more are found after many years in captivity. Then there are the occasional Press Releases by the Met clearly fashioned to justify their own existence in the case at great public expense. In reality what emerges is yet more old news repackaged as if it was some great breakthrough after 6 years but all the while just more dead ends and tomorrows chip paper.
As for contacting the McCanns, a total waste of time. Seems they don't even answer their e-mails to the Find Madeleine site any more. More Bunkum. @)(++(*
True
The other real issue is that missing and murdered childrens parents invariably break up, one blames the other and vice versa, it is unprecedented inthe main they stay together, thats what make me think neither were culpable but both were, if they found her dead
-
YES a lot of anti Mccann posters would LIKE to prefer she is forgotten - but she certainly isn't.
May I suggest that you contact the Mccanns with your plans and discuss it direct with them your obvious expertise in abduction and searches for missing children will be most welcomed by them.
The only time she is ever mentioned is when some other poor little kid goes missing or when one or more are found after many years in captivity. Then there are the occasional Press Releases by the Met clearly fashioned to justify their own existence in the case at great public expense. In reality what emerges is yet more old news repackaged as if it was some great breakthrough after 6 years but all the while just more dead ends and tomorrows chip paper.
As for contacting the McCanns, a total waste of time. Seems they don't even answer their e-mails to the Find Madeleine site any more. More Bunkum. @)(++(*
I wonder if you'd still feel the same if it were your child that went missing?
-
YES a lot of anti Mccann posters would LIKE to prefer she is forgotten - but she certainly isn't.
May I suggest that you contact the Mccanns with your plans and discuss it direct with them your obvious expertise in abduction and searches for missing children will be most welcomed by them.
The only time she is ever mentioned is when some other poor little kid goes missing or when one or more are found after many years in captivity. Then there are the occasional Press Releases by the Met clearly fashioned to justify their own existence in the case at great public expense. In reality what emerges is yet more old news repackaged as if it was some great breakthrough after 6 years but all the while just more dead ends and tomorrows chip paper.
As for contacting the McCanns, a total waste of time. Seems they don't even answer their e-mails to the Find Madeleine site any more. More Bunkum. @)(++(*
I wonder if you'd still feel the same if it were your child that went missing?
Moralising claptrap only thing you people use, to outfarm the mccanns guilt culpability and liea, its defunct and frankly sick
-
Someones chip paper is another mans hope. Never knock hope.
-
I have tried, but I am not being allowed to delete and add another line
Instead of the post that you object to, I was trying to post
Deleted
In many ways against my better judgement, cos children are more important than mouthy adults.
Btw, what did you call her Registrar?
-
The topic header is Should the McCanns go back to Portugal to look for Madeleine? and it is my submission that they should. Pro McCanns appear to have a problem with this which is strange since you would think that the parents of a missing child would want to do so?? I keep asking myself what are they scared of? Has the publication of the Madeleine book with all its criticisms contributed to this??
-
I have a slightly different suggestion, Angelo.
Imagine that you're Gerry McCann at 22:10 in a foreign country and have just discovered that your child has disappeared, seemingly abducted.
Why not lead us through what you would have done differently from then on?
I have no gripe with what they did immediately on finding her gone but I do with what they did immediately after the arguido status was lifted. The perception is that they scuttled off home like scared rats. Harsh but true.
Ok... so at which point do you think they went off track?
NB: They went back home way before arguido status was lifted.
My apologies Carana as I didn't see your question before leaving. I should have made it clear that the McCanns were made arguidos on the Friday and jetted off home two days later on the Sunday in September 2007. The arguido status was lifted in July 2008. They went off track the moment they refused to answer the detectives questions at the police station. As I stated previously...the McCanns received some bad advice at that point in time as their actions have both then and now been perceived as being sinister.
Yes and up until they were made arguido's....they had no intention of leaving Portugal .....,where K felt close to maddie.
K was also told by not answering the questions ...she could harm the investigation ..her answer was yes
-
The topic header is Should the McCanns go back to Portugal to look for Madeleine? and it is my submission that they should. Pro McCanns appear to have a problem with this which is strange since you would think that the parents of a missing child would want to do so?? I keep asking myself what are they scared of? Has the publication of the Madeleine book with all its criticisms contributed to this??
Angelo, we have gone over this so many times. 8)-)))
It is all a matter of intellect whether you physically go and look in a country that is about 400 miles x 100 miles, or you do it the sensible way via NSY?
It is also a question of priority. Do you put your missing child continually over your other children?
Then there is the language problem ... and the natives aggression problem
Cultural problems
Added to this is a police force that behaves as a Totalitarian state behaves. Makes up stories in order to clamp "troublesome (LOL)" peeps in jail ... and then beats them up.
Additionally everything to do with this case is being twisted. Disinformation given out. So bad, that if you are told it is "that away" then you automatically look in a different direction.
Information is also being deleted from the internet. If you are searching and even the names of the streets have gone missing off GEarth, as was the case prior to SY, it becomes ridiculous.
An extremely influential group are hiding Madeleine and what has happened to her. Little doubt about that.
Also certain groups have proved themselves capable of deliberately putting out propaganda. Look at the Leonor Cipriana case. Look at the Michael Cook case.
And evil no brainer [ censored word] who have gone out of their way to try and prevent /disrupt the search for Madeleine.
I repeat that " evil no brainer [ censored word] who have gone out of their way to try and prevent /disrupt the search for Madeleine
Certain people do not want these children found and that goes beyond the actual perp. There is another agenda apart from the obvious one.
Names are being protected and so is money making mega style.
What chance would a couple of parents, who dont even speak the lingo have in such an alien situation?
The Mccanns might bleed inside wanting to do what you suggest, but they are sensible intelligent people and have been searching the other way. The intellectual way, rather than the dash in and cause mayhem way
OK?
-
Wumming, wumming, wumming
Same old, same old, same old
Can you stop wumming pls Xtina?
-
I have a slightly different suggestion, Angelo.
Imagine that you're Gerry McCann at 22:10 in a foreign country and have just discovered that your child has disappeared, seemingly abducted.
Why not lead us through what you would have done differently from then on?
I have no gripe with what they did immediately on finding her gone but I do with what they did immediately after the arguido status was lifted. The perception is that they scuttled off home like scared rats. Harsh but true.
Ok... so at which point do you think they went off track?
NB: They went back home way before arguido status was lifted.
My apologies Carana as I didn't see your question before leaving. I should have made it clear that the McCanns were made arguidos on the Friday and jetted off home two days later on the Sunday in September 2007. The arguido status was lifted in July 2008. They went off track the moment they refused to answer the detectives questions at the police station. As I stated previously...the McCanns received some bad advice at that point in time as their actions have both then and now been perceived as being sinister.
Yes and up until they were made arguido's....they had no intention of leaving Portugal .....,where K felt close to maddie.
K was also told by not answering the questions ...she could harm the investigation ..her answer was yes
Her full answer in fact was ''Yes if that's what the investigation thinks'' She was being ironic, and who could bame her when the people who WERE harming the investigation by trying to frame her instead of looking for Madeleine were the very same people accusing HER of harming the investigation. The supreme irony of that whole situation would hardly have escaped her - wouldn't you agree?
-
It is also a question of priority. Do you put your missing child continually over your other children?
Then there is the language problem ... and the natives aggression problem
Cultural problems
K&G ...have always put the twins first from the off ...they kept a normal routine ...went to bed every nite ..breakfast dinner tea...etc etc ....so how can u say..."Do you put your missing child continually over your other children"
-
Xtina.
What a rubbish remark. "K&G ...have always put the twins first from the off "
Cites please
-
Apparently it was on legal advisement that they refused to answer the detectives questions. Great advice which landed them in it up to their necks!! @)(++(*
-
The topic header is Should the McCanns go back to Portugal to look for Madeleine? and it is my submission that they should. Pro McCanns appear to have a problem with this which is strange since you would think that the parents of a missing child would want to do so?? I keep asking myself what are they scared of? Has the publication of the Madeleine book with all its criticisms contributed to this??
The reality is that the only purpose it would serve to return to Portugal to search for Madeleine would be to satisfy your criticisms. The Portuguese authorities will not allow the parents to search property/ies. Question and re interview people. They have, within Portuguese law, looked for her. They have had the support of others who are skilled in 'looking' for her and I don't include those who like Metodo 3 were only out to take financial advantage of them. It's not a matter of being scared of anything, it's a matter of keeping within the law and being realistic and practical at the same time. They have employed people who are giving them advice and guiding them in the best ways to look for Madeleine. But they came up against people like you who criticise without real understanding of their situation. People, who even after been given reason why things are dealt with in a certain way, still think there is something sinister in their actions. People who demand a reason why things are done in a certain way and expect the parents to justify every move they make just because their campaign is so public. It hasn't been the publication of the Madeleine book that has added difficulty in their attempts to find Madeleine, it has been the publication of the Amaral book. The book that has influenced others to believe Madeleine is dead and thus shouldn't be searched for. THIS influence has been the main stumbling block in the search for her and therefore it is and continues to be an issue that has resulted in legal action being taken against Mr Amaral. THIS book has had a major influence in the attitude of some people towards the McCann's and the search for their daughter.
There is nothing strange in not going back to Portugal to search for her as you wish they would. There is only something strange in the fact that you can't see why they are unable to do this.
I'm sure if one of the parents or both were seen looking for Madeleine in Portugal you would be first to criticise how futile an endeavour that would be.
And for the record, not all so called pro McCann's agree with everything the parents do and have done. You should try to stop seeing replies to your posts as either pro or anti because it clouds your judgment.
-
It was you, Angelo, that brought the thread back to the opening post.
Have you changed your mind?
... or dont you like the responses?
-
Apparently it was on legal advisement that they refused to answer the detectives questions. Great advice which landed them in it up to their necks!! @)(++(*
Yes, there have been people who have ill advised the McCann's but how is that the McCann's fault?
-
Apparently it was on legal advisement that they refused to answer the detectives questions. Great advice which landed them in it up to their necks!! @)(++(*
Yes, there have been people who have ill advised the McCann's but how is that the McCann's fault?
A no-brainer. They employed them didn't they consequently their fault.
-
Were the questions designed to help find Madeleine?
or we they designed to try and entrap Kate?
The lawyers knew what they were doing when they advised her not to answer, but seems some cant see the wood for the trees
I am thankful that she did not answer any of those questions, because the answers would have been twisted into something else
Almost certainly
-
Xtina.
What a rubbish remark. "K&G ...have always put the twins first from the off "
Cites please
no more rubbish ...than other remarks i have seen on here...
what is meant by Cites please
-
No, with respect, you are wrong Angelo
The PT lawyers knew what was going to happen with those entrapment questions, and protected Kate against that.
-
Xtina.
What a rubbish remark. "K&G ...have always put the twins first from the off "
Cites please
no more rubbish ...than other remarks i have seen on here...
what is meant by Cites please
Cites = proof not myths and waffle
-
Were the questions designed to help find Madeleine?
or we they designed to try and entrap Kate?
The lawyers knew what they were doing when they advised her not to answer, but seems some cant see the wood for the trees
I am thankful that she did not answer any of those questions, because the answers would have been twisted into something else
Almost certainly
Innocent people cooperate with police investigators and especially so when their child has allegedly been abducted. Different rules for the McCanns though apparently?? 8(0(* ?{)(**
Cites?? You are beginning to morph into another Debunker Sadie. @)(++(*
-
Apparently it was on legal advisement that they refused to answer the detectives questions. Great advice which landed them in it up to their necks!! @)(++(*
Yes, there have been people who have ill advised the McCann's but how is that the McCann's fault?
A no-brainer. They employed them didn't they consequently their fault.
If the McCann's were such experts in all fields they would be able to spot those who are no good at their job and or, have no need of their services in the first place, but seeing none of us are experts in all fields, we rely on the expertise and good will of others who are also human and make mistakes. It's like saying if you voted for the labour government you are just as much at fault for the dire economic situation the UK finds itself in. Have you never received ill advice?
-
Innocent people cooperate with police investigators and especially so when their child has allegedly been abducted. Different rules for the McCanns though apparently?? 8(0(* ?{)(**
Cites?? You are beginning to morph into another Debunker Sadie. @)(++(*
I wish I could Angelo. A brilliant brain sadly lost to this forum
We are not talking about a country that acts according to the Law here Angelo. We are talking about a country that is still totalitarian / fascist
Different rules apply in countries like this.
-
Were the questions designed to help find Madeleine?
or we they designed to try and entrap Kate?
The lawyers knew what they were doing when they advised her not to answer, but seems some cant see the wood for the trees
I am thankful that she did not answer any of those questions, because the answers would have been twisted into something else
Almost certainly
Innocent people cooperate with police investigators and especially so when their child has allegedly been abducted. Different rules for the McCanns though apparently?? 8(0(* ?{)(**
Cites?? You are beginning to morph into another Debunker Sadie. @)(++(*
Your use of the words 'cooperate with the police' are being used selectively. You make it seem that the McCann's never cooperated at all.
-
No, with respect, you are wrong Angelo
The PT lawyers knew what was going to happen with those entrapment questions, and protected Kate against that.
Utter claptrap and hogwash Sadie. You can answer a question truthfully without dropping yourself in it. Aren't the McCanns supposed to be intelligent people after all???
I am glad you agree that they received bad advice Mo. It is a phenomenon which appears to follow them however...bad resort, bad lawyers, bad detectives...
Oh they cooperated until they stopped.
-
You are very bitter Angelo
With no knowledge, just myths
You would like to think so but it is you who are deluded. If it was your 3-year-old kid which was abducted would you sit on your backside planning your next media moment??
Rene, Amy and Bens parents have at least tried to do the right thing...they have gone back to search at great personal expense. They are to be admired for their perserverence.
Anyways, off to work early today so if anyone accuses me of not answering their posts today you know what to tell them.
-
Apparently it was on legal advisement that they refused to answer the detectives questions. Great advice which landed them in it up to their necks!! @)(++(*
Yes, there have been people who have ill advised the McCann's but how is that the McCann's fault?
A no-brainer. They employed them didn't they consequently their fault.
If the McCann's were such experts in all fields they would be able to spot those who are no good at their job and or, have no need of their services in the first place, but seeing none of us are experts in all fields, we rely on the expertise and good will of others who are also human and make mistakes. It's like saying if you voted for the labour government you are just as much at fault for the dire economic situation the UK finds itself in. Have you never received ill advice?
Exactly. The McCanns were as green as grass when it came to making decisions on stuff they had never had any previous experience of and so knew nothing about. They had no option but to take advice from others - which inevitably involved a certain amount of trust on their part.
Once again the sceptics choose to blame the McCans (the victims) - and not those who abused their trust.
So predictable.
-
No, with respect, you are wrong Angelo
The PT lawyers knew what was going to happen with those entrapment questions, and protected Kate against that.
I agree Sadie. Kate's Portuguese lawyer, (who unlike Kate was the legal EXPERT) was not there to help the PJ frame his client, nor to advise her to do the same. Therefore his advice was correct IMO.
-
You are very bitter Angelo
With no knowledge, just myths
You would like to think so but it is you who are deluded. If it was your 3-year-old kid which was abducted would you sit on your backside planning your next media moment??
Rene, Amy and Bens parents have at least tried to do the right thing...they have gone back to search at great personal expense. They are to be admired for their perserverence.
Anyways, off to work early today so if anyone accuses me of not answering their posts today you know what to tell them.
I would hope that I would have the good sense to leave it to SY.
All this talk about media moments is utter claptrap. As though they are film stars self promoting; what rubbish, Angelo.
For starters Kate, was terrified of the media.
But she wants to find Madeleine and has pushed herself to get over the fear.
Why are you so bitter? >@@(*&) 8(8-))
Brave woman . Kate Mccann. 8((()*/
-
You are very bitter Angelo
With no knowledge, just myths
You would like to think so but it is you who are deluded. If it was your 3-year-old kid which was abducted would you sit on your backside planning your next media moment??
Rene, Amy and Bens parents have at least tried to do the right thing...they have gone back to search at great personal expense. They are to be admired for their perserverence.
Anyways, off to work early today so if anyone accuses me of not answering their posts today you know what to tell them.
Was it not the duty of the Portuguese police to find Madeleine? Leaving the parents free to use the media to help in that task? How many missing people campaigns have made use of the media yet it's only the McCann's who are criticised for doing so. I don't see you criticising: Tia Sharps, April Jones, Claudia Lawrence, Shannon Matthews' (there are more that can be listed) media campaigns.
-
You would like to think so but it is you who are deluded. If it was your 3-year-old kid which was abducted would you sit on your backside planning your next media moment??
And exactly how do the McCanns conduct a house to house search? Do they have authority to enter any premises or outbuildings and search? What would happen if the person said, 'NO'? Would they still have a legal right to enter that premises?
Are the McCanns, their friends and family expected to pick up spades and start digging up the countryside of Portugal? Are you saying this is what they should be doing, even if it means breaking the law? Do you not agree, that if the McCanns entered any property without permission they could be arrested for trespass?
Please tell me how they can conduct a search with so many legal restraints against them!!!!!
-
Xtina.
What a rubbish remark. "K&G ...have always put the twins first from the off "
Cites please
no more rubbish ...than other remarks i have seen on here...
what is meant by Cites please
Cites = proof not myths and waffle
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/DAYS_01.htm
just in case link does not work...from g mccs blog....
ay 17 - 20/05/2007 Sunday
A Day to day life for the McCann's
Our day starts around 6.30am with us all waking up around the same time. We have breakfast with Sean and Amelie and our close family/friends who are here with us. Then its clean nappies and clothes for Sean and Amelie followed by showers etc for the rest of us.
Usually there’s some free time then for a few stories or games with the twins before heading out.
9.00-9.15 We take Sean and Amelie to Kids’ Club. They really enjoy it and run in.
They know the staff well and the staff are all excellent. Both love the domestic corner and Amelie particularly likes to look after ‘babies’. We use the kids club a bit like nursery at home but we think Sean and Amelie still think they are on holiday!
9.30~12.15. We return to the apartments, usually for a series of meetings with our press officer, Mark Warner Reps, occasionally Consulate staff, lawyers and British Liaison officers. During this time we catch up with family and close friends, usually by telephone and discuss ideas how to keep Madeleine’s profile high especially throughout continental Europe.
12.30 Time to pick up Sean and Amelie from Kids’ club then head back to apartment for lunch, which has usually been prepared by one of our family/friends group who have been tremendously supportive.
13.30 –14.30 This is time to spend time playing with the twins either in the apartment or in the play area next to kids club.
14.30-15.00 Usually we take the twins back to Kids’ Club although Sean has had the odd afternoon in the apartment as it’s a bit cooler and he’s not much of a sun worshipper! They have been taking part in many different activities including painting, singing, stories, swimming, trips to the beach and they have lots of toys to play with.
15.00~17.00 We try to get some time together alone, going for a walk to talk things over or getting some exercise. This is often the time for quiet trips to the church for prayers.
17.00-17.30 Meet kids for high tea with other mums and dads. They love pasta and have been doing really well with their vegetables although a few chips have been squeezed in.
17.30-18.30. Games with kids at play area. Amelie loves trying to get in the baby pool!
18.30-19.30 Bath and story time with the twins.
20.00 We put the kids to bed.
20.30-23.00 We try to sit down for a family meal, again usually cooked by one of the small family group out here with us. Chat about the day’s events and plan the next day
23.30 bed and prayer for Madeleine that she will be returned to us safely
ASAP.
-
I dont know what your piont is xtina?
I cant understand what you are getting at
Sorry
-
I dont know what your piont is xtina?
I cant understand what you are getting at
Sorry
this is what happens ...when you ridicule a post unnecessary posts follow...you would have been better off not asking for cites don't you think....it was my opinion ...did i ask you for a link to cuddle cat stinking
a bit alarming though don't you think ...the twins being left in the creche day after day ..with all those seedy characters vans workers .all hanging round the complex....
what is piont...sorry
-
Sorry, I cant see anything wrong at all. It's all in your mind because it aint the way you might do it
... or that's what it seems to me.
If things are just your opinion best to mke it clear at the time. Dont you think?
-
I dont know what your piont is xtina?
I cant understand what you are getting at
Sorry
this is what happens ...when you ridicule a post unnecessary posts follow...you would have been better off not asking for cites don't you think....it was my opinion ...did i ask you for a link to cuddle cat stinking
a bit alarming though don't you think ...the twins being left in the creche day after day ..with all those seedy characters vans workers .all hanging round the complex....
what is piont...sorry
What a strange idea. The twins could not have been in a safer place - especially with scores of reporters camped nearby and a creche staff absolutely aware of the need for vigilance after what had happened. Children need routine, and their parents did their best to provide that. Do you think they would have been better off cooped up in the apartment all day with people who were hardly in the holiday spirit, and were likely to break down in tears at regular intervals? That would have left them confused and upset IMO.
The McCanns took advice from experienced counsellors on how to deal with the twins - and acted on that advice.
What is there to criticise in that?
-
And exactly how do the McCanns conduct a house to house search? Do they have authority to enter any premises or outbuildings and search? What would happen if the person said, 'NO'? Would they still have a legal right to enter that premises?
Are the McCanns, their friends and family expected to pick up spades and start digging up the countryside of Portugal? Are you saying this is what they should be doing, even if it means breaking the law? Do you not agree, that if the McCanns entered any property without permission they could be arrested for trespass?
Please tell me how they can conduct a search with so many legal restraints against them!!!!!
Who mentioned house to house anything?? You haven't read my posts have you?
I made the point and I will make it again for you as a newbie that the McCanns should be spending a considerable lot more time out in Portugal than they currently do. If they are as committed to the search for Madeleine as they profess to be why are they not doing something about it where it counts?
I have suggested that they tour the country and neighbouring Spain making contact with any sizeable communities as they go attracting local media interest and getting the photo of Madeleine and the information including an award out there. Is this so difficult to comprehend??
The comments by pros claiming that the Portuguese would be less than helpful or even threatening towards then is garbage. They are no longer official suspects, they are free to do whatever they want. Inevitably they would attract a media circus wherever they went but all the better...milk it...get the message out there!!!
They will not find Madeleine in Rothley or even England, the Met will not find Madeleine either because they are effectively impotent as far as any investigative work in portugal is concerned and the Portuguese Police aren't even looking or bothered. After 6 years of zero progress in the case you would think that someone with their intelligence would have worked that out by now.
-
I made the point and I will make it again for you as a newbie that the McCanns should be spending a considerable lot more time out in Portugal than they currently do. If they are as committed to the search for Madeleine as they profess to be why are they not doing something about it where it counts?
I have suggested that they tour the country and neighbouring Spain making contact with any sizeable communities as they go attracting local media interest and getting the photo of Madeleine and the information including an award out there. Is this so difficult to comprehend??
And how do they fund this venture you want them to go. If they are out touring Spain and spending a lot of time in Portugal engaging communities when do they work to earn money to live on? How do they maintain a near as normal life for their remaining children? Children need a routine, they just can't be dragged around countries and home tutored. Or do you expect them to forsake their other children?
And if the McCanns did take this option, say for instance during school holidays, what do you think the anti McCann people would be saying if they asked for funds to carry out what you want them to do? Like what they have said all along. Nasty snide comments about how they are jet-setters and I have even heard comments about their previous trips abroad being classed as holidays.
-
And exactly how do the McCanns conduct a house to house search? Do they have authority to enter any premises or outbuildings and search? What would happen if the person said, 'NO'? Would they still have a legal right to enter that premises?
Are the McCanns, their friends and family expected to pick up spades and start digging up the countryside of Portugal? Are you saying this is what they should be doing, even if it means breaking the law? Do you not agree, that if the McCanns entered any property without permission they could be arrested for trespass?
Please tell me how they can conduct a search with so many legal restraints against them!!!!!
Who mentioned house to house anything?? You haven't read my posts have you?
I made the point and I will make it again for you as a newbie that the McCanns should be spending a considerable lot more time out in Portugal than they currently do. If they are as committed to the search for Madeleine as they profess to be why are they not doing something about it where it counts?
I have suggested that they tour the country and neighbouring Spain making contact with any sizeable communities as they go attracting local media interest and getting the photo of Madeleine and the information including an award out there. Is this so difficult to comprehend??
The comments by pros claiming that the Portuguese would be less than helpful or even threatening towards then is garbage. They are no longer official suspects, they are free to do whatever they want. Inevitably they would attract a media circus wherever they went but all the better...milk it...get the message out there!!!
They will not find Madeleine in Rothley or even England, the Met will not find Madeleine either because they are effectively impotent as far as any investigative work in portugal is concerned and the Portuguese Police aren't even looking or bothered. After 6 years of zero progress in the case you would think that someone with their intelligence would have worked that out by now.
IMO The reason they haven't done what you suggest Angelo - is because they ARE intelligent.
-
And exactly how do the McCanns conduct a house to house search? Do they have authority to enter any premises or outbuildings and search? What would happen if the person said, 'NO'? Would they still have a legal right to enter that premises?
Are the McCanns, their friends and family expected to pick up spades and start digging up the countryside of Portugal? Are you saying this is what they should be doing, even if it means breaking the law? Do you not agree, that if the McCanns entered any property without permission they could be arrested for trespass?
Please tell me how they can conduct a search with so many legal restraints against them!!!!!
Who mentioned house to house anything?? You haven't read my posts have you?
I made the point and I will make it again for you as a newbie that the McCanns should be spending a considerable lot more time out in Portugal than they currently do. If they are as committed to the search for Madeleine as they profess to be why are they not doing something about it where it counts?
I have suggested that they tour the country and neighbouring Spain making contact with any sizeable communities as they go attracting local media interest and getting the photo of Madeleine and the information including an award out there. Is this so difficult to comprehend??
The comments by pros claiming that the Portuguese would be less than helpful or even threatening towards then is garbage. They are no longer official suspects, they are free to do whatever they want. Inevitably they would attract a media circus wherever they went but all the better...milk it...get the message out there!!!
They will not find Madeleine in Rothley or even England, the Met will not find Madeleine either because they are effectively impotent as far as any investigative work in portugal is concerned and the Portuguese Police aren't even looking or bothered. After 6 years of zero progress in the case you would think that someone with their intelligence would have worked that out by now.
I don't usually comment on the maddie case but this is a good point. My own thoughts on this lie somewhere along the same lines of those espoused by angelo. Maddie was abducted in Portugal and it is to Portugal that the search must be centered. Six years have been wasted and as far as I can see the McCanns have spent a mere days in the country since coming back.
For me it is a yes vote and time they backed some bags and got back to basics.
PS I have found McCann supporters on this forum to be aggressive and patronizing in a way in which I have never experienced in the Bamber case which I follow occasionally. Their attitude to constructive criticism does their cause no justice.
PPS Benice. Your comment just serves to prove me right. Get over yourself.
-
Benice makes a very valid point Matthew
It is becuase they ARE intelligent that they take the only sensible option.
-
You've lost the plot Angelo. Seriously.
Not at all, I am not an apologist for the McCanns like you appear to be. I mentioned yesterday that the Needhams and the Fitzpatricks are to be applauded for their tireless search for their child which in the end proved fruitless. At least they got out there and did something. What have the McCanns done???
Remind me what did Amy's stepfather do? You know the stepfather who was at least partly responsible for the child, Amy, whilst she was in Spain?
Ah yes, its coming to me now. He stabbed the brother of Amy and killed him and dropped the knife down a drain before leaving him to die, just before that brother was allegedly going to tell the police something interesting about the death of his sister.
If that is what you call doing something, I am afraid I prefer the McCann actions.
-
Not at all, I am not an apologist for the McCanns like you appear to be. I mentioned yesterday that the Needhams and the Fitzpatricks are to be applauded for their tireless search for their child which in the end proved fruitless. At least they got out there and did something. What have the McCanns done???
Remind me what did Amy's stepfather do? You know the stepfather who was at least partly responsible for the child, Amy, whilst she was in Spain?
Ah yes, its coming to me now. He stabbed the brother of Amy and killed him and dropped the knife down a drain before leaving him to die, just before that brother was allegedly going to tell the police something interesting about the death of his sister.
If that is what you call doing something, I am afraid I prefer the McCann actions.
I did post Fitzpatrick as in Amy's surname. Did you get that?? The stepfather is called David Mahon!! @)(++(*
-
IMO The reason they haven't done what you suggest Angelo - is because they ARE intelligent.
Intelligent but badly represented appears to be the consensus of opinion. My own view is that they are scared to return to Portugal together in order to conduct the campaign which Angelo suggests in case they are picked up again by the PJ.
-
IMO The reason they haven't done what you suggest Angelo - is because they ARE intelligent.
Intelligent but badly represented appears to be the consensus of opinion. My own view is that they are scared to return to Portugal together in order to conduct the campaign which Angelo suggests in case they are picked up again by the PJ.
Yes and so would I be. Have you seen what can happen on stairs, in Portugal? 8-)(--)
-
IMO The reason they haven't done what you suggest Angelo - is because they ARE intelligent.
Intelligent but badly represented appears to be the consensus of opinion. My own view is that they are scared to return to Portugal together in order to conduct the campaign which Angelo suggests in case they are picked up again by the PJ.
You're entitled to your opinion John. But IMO the reason they don't campaign in Portugal is because it would not only be the least productive way to deploy their limited resources, it would also be the most wasteful - and of course the worst possible scenario for their young children.
-
IMO The reason they haven't done what you suggest Angelo - is because they ARE intelligent.
Intelligent but badly represented appears to be the consensus of opinion. My own view is that they are scared to return to Portugal together in order to conduct the campaign which Angelo suggests in case they are picked up again by the PJ.
You're entitled to your opinion John. But IMO the reason they don't campaign in Portugal is because it would not only be the least productive way to deploy their limited resources, it would also be the most wasteful - and of course the worst possible scenario for their young children.
You forget Benice, when they do go on this mammoth campaign of talking to every person in Portugal and Spain, with limited resources and their remaining children left with family members, some people can use then use the argument that they have abandoned and neglected the twins, as another stick to beat this family with.
The McCanns are using a campaign that is effective. They are asking for the publics help when travelling abroad for distribution of posters etc. and they are using what funds are available for private investigators to follow up leads (which we know at the moment has been put on hold pending Scotland Yard review).
-
IMO The reason they haven't done what you suggest Angelo - is because they ARE intelligent.
Intelligent but badly represented appears to be the consensus of opinion. My own view is that they are scared to return to Portugal together in order to conduct the campaign which Angelo suggests in case they are picked up again by the PJ.
You're entitled to your opinion John. But IMO the reason they don't campaign in Portugal is because it would not only be the least productive way to deploy their limited resources, it would also be the most wasteful - and of course the worst possible scenario for their young children.
You forget Benice, when they do go on this mammoth campaign of talking to every person in Portugal and Spain, with limited resources and their remaining children left with family members, some people can use then use the argument that they have abandoned and neglected the twins, as another stick to beat this family with.
The McCanns are using a campaign that is effective. They are asking for the publics help when travelling abroad for distribution of posters etc. and they are using what funds are available for private investigators to follow up leads (which we know at the moment has been put on hold pending Scotland Yard review).
I agree. They've chosen the most sensible and productive route to go IMO. How can they go round Portugal chatting to the Portuguese when they don't even speak the language? They would have to employ a full time interpretor, and can you imagine how long it would take to 'chat' - with everything having to be translated back and forth all the time. The whole concept is completely impractical from every angle and so a non starter IMHO.
-
IMO The reason they haven't done what you suggest Angelo - is because they ARE intelligent.
Intelligent but badly represented appears to be the consensus of opinion. My own view is that they are scared to return to Portugal together in order to conduct the campaign which Angelo suggests in case they are picked up again by the PJ.
You're entitled to your opinion John. But IMO the reason they don't campaign in Portugal is because it would not only be the least productive way to deploy their limited resources, it would also be the most wasteful - and of course the worst possible scenario for their young children.
You forget Benice, when they do go on this mammoth campaign of talking to every person in Portugal and Spain, with limited resources and their remaining children left with family members, some people can use then use the argument that they have abandoned and neglected the twins, as another stick to beat this family with.
The McCanns are using a campaign that is effective. They are asking for the publics help when travelling abroad for distribution of posters etc. and they are using what funds are available for private investigators to follow up leads (which we know at the moment has been put on hold pending Scotland Yard review).
Just as you are entitled to your opinion Benice. There is no reason why they can't run a new campaign on the Iberian peninsula, they have the funds to do it quite easily. Communicating in Portugal never phased them 6 years ago and won't do so today. Most journalists in Portugal are bilingual in any event.
TTSOFAFM. The use of the word "effective" is a slight exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination. What have they achieved?
Angelo posted a very true point earlier when he pointed out that with all the £millions spent they are no closer to solving the case than they were 6 years ago. In fact they are going over old ground because they have no new leads. Those are the indisputable facts I'm afraid.
-
IMO The reason they haven't done what you suggest Angelo - is because they ARE intelligent.
Intelligent but badly represented appears to be the consensus of opinion. My own view is that they are scared to return to Portugal together in order to conduct the campaign which Angelo suggests in case they are picked up again by the PJ.
You're entitled to your opinion John. But IMO the reason they don't campaign in Portugal is because it would not only be the least productive way to deploy their limited resources, it would also be the most wasteful - and of course the worst possible scenario for their young children.
You forget Benice, when they do go on this mammoth campaign of talking to every person in Portugal and Spain, with limited resources and their remaining children left with family members, some people can use then use the argument that they have abandoned and neglected the twins, as another stick to beat this family with.
The McCanns are using a campaign that is effective. They are asking for the publics help when travelling abroad for distribution of posters etc. and they are using what funds are available for private investigators to follow up leads (which we know at the moment has been put on hold pending Scotland Yard review).
Just as you are entitled to your opinion Benice. There is no reason why they can't run a new campaign on the Iberian peninsula, they have the funds to do it quite easily. Communicating in Portugal never phased them 6 years ago and won't do so today. Most journalists in Portugal are bilingual in any event.
TTSOFAFM. The use of the word "effective" is a slight exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination. What have they achieved?
Angelo posted a very true point earlier when he pointed out that with all the £millions spent they are no closer to solving the case than they were 6 years ago. In fact they are going over old ground because they have no new leads. Those are the indisputable facts I'm afraid.
They are disputable John.
There are new leads.
I know that
-
IMO The reason they haven't done what you suggest Angelo - is because they ARE intelligent.
Intelligent but badly represented appears to be the consensus of opinion. My own view is that they are scared to return to Portugal together in order to conduct the campaign which Angelo suggests in case they are picked up again by the PJ.
You're entitled to your opinion John. But IMO the reason they don't campaign in Portugal is because it would not only be the least productive way to deploy their limited resources, it would also be the most wasteful - and of course the worst possible scenario for their young children.
You forget Benice, when they do go on this mammoth campaign of talking to every person in Portugal and Spain, with limited resources and their remaining children left with family members, some people can use then use the argument that they have abandoned and neglected the twins, as another stick to beat this family with.
The McCanns are using a campaign that is effective. They are asking for the publics help when travelling abroad for distribution of posters etc. and they are using what funds are available for private investigators to follow up leads (which we know at the moment has been put on hold pending Scotland Yard review).
Just as you are entitled to your opinion Benice. There is no reason why they can't run a new campaign on the Iberian peninsula, they have the funds to do it quite easily. Communicating in Portugal never phased them 6 years ago and won't do so today. Most journalists in Portugal are bilingual in any event.
TTSOFAFM. The use of the word "effective" is a slight exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination. What have they achieved?
Angelo posted a very true point earlier when he pointed out that with all the £millions spent they are no closer to solving the case than they were 6 years ago. In fact they are going over old ground because they have no new leads. Those are the indisputable facts I'm afraid.
You are quite right John, the fact that no more is known about what happened to Madeleine than was known six years ago is evidence that the campaign has not been effective
Why the McCanns don't acknowledge that fact, and change tactics accordingly, is beyond understanding
-
Her full answer in fact was ''Yes if that's what the investigation thinks'' She was being ironic, and who could bame her when the people who WERE harming the investigation by trying to frame her instead of looking for Madeleine were the very same people accusing HER of harming the investigation. The supreme irony of that whole situation would hardly have escaped her - wouldn't you agree?
Whatever the situation Mrs McCann reveals a remarkable and unfailing sense of derision :
It was not until about 11.10pm that two policemen arrived from the nearest town, Lagos, about five miles away. To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn’t shake the images of Tweedledum and Tweedledee out of my head.
-
Before I get accused of being an anti lets be clear about this. As a parent of three great sons I have every sympathy with the McCanns and what they have suffered since losing Maddie in 2007. They were forced into making rash decisions at the time of the abduction and were misled by many people into maybe not making the right decisions at the time. That said though, they have had years to get their act together, Kate looking after the family home while Gerry goes out to work. All very well I hear you say but what about Maddie?
Someone posted the aims of the Madeleine fund earlier and something struck me about it. One of the aims was to see Madeleine return home to her family. Return home? Should that not be go out and find her? It all sounds terribly passive to me, sit back and let someone else search for her? And pleeeeeeaaasssseee don't respond with the same old tripe that they don't speak Portuguese or might get mugged or must look after the twins now or some other silly excuse. I must say though I do agree with Angelo when he says if it was his kid he would be out there looking and digging and searching until the end.
-
Her full answer in fact was ''Yes if that's what the investigation thinks'' She was being ironic, and who could bame her when the people who WERE harming the investigation by trying to frame her instead of looking for Madeleine were the very same people accusing HER of harming the investigation. The supreme irony of that whole situation would hardly have escaped her - wouldn't you agree?
Whatever the situation Mrs McCann reveals a remarkable and unfailing sense of derision :
It was not until about 11.10pm that two policemen arrived from the nearest town, Lagos, about five miles away. To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn?t shake the images of Tweedledum and Tweedledee out of my head.
What an awful sanctimonious thing to write about two GNR officers who had gone to their aid. Who was she expecting..the CIA or Colombo? @)(++(*
-
Her full answer in fact was ''Yes if that's what the investigation thinks'' She was being ironic, and who could bame her when the people who WERE harming the investigation by trying to frame her instead of looking for Madeleine were the very same people accusing HER of harming the investigation. The supreme irony of that whole situation would hardly have escaped her - wouldn't you agree?
Whatever the situation Mrs McCann reveals a remarkable and unfailing sense of derision :
It was not until about 11.10pm that two policemen arrived from the nearest town, Lagos, about five miles away. To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn?t shake the images of Tweedledum and Tweedledee out of my head.
What an awful sanctimonious thing to write about two GNR officers who had gone to their aid. Who was she expecting..the CIA or Colombo? @)(++(*
No wonder they cannot face the Portuguese cops now after belittling them in their cheapshot book. It's all beginning to make sense now...ta guys. 8((()*/
-
Before I get accused of being an anti lets be clear about this. As a parent of three great sons I have every sympathy with the McCanns and what they have suffered since losing Maddie in 2007. They were forced into making rash decisions at the time of the abduction and were misled by many people into maybe not making the right decisions at the time. That said though, they have had years to get their act together, Kate looking after the family home while Gerry goes out to work. All very well I hear you say but what about Maddie?
Someone posted the aims of the Madeleine fund earlier and something struck me about it. One of the aims was to see Madeleine return home to her family. Return home? Should that not be go out and find her? It all sounds terribly passive to me, sit back and let someone else search for her? And pleeeeeeaaasssseee don't respond with the same old tripe that they don't speak Portuguese or might get mugged or must look after the twins now or some other silly excuse. I must say though I do agree with Angelo when he says if it was his kid he would be out there looking and digging and searching until the end.
Bloody too right I would. No stupid job in England or a bunch of tossers or some anti campaign would hold me back if someone lifted my daughter. I would search the s..mbags out and deal with them man to man. No pussy footing around like Tom and Jerry.
-
Your opinion is always appreciated Martha even when you chuck out the dummy. 8(0(*
-
I read somewhere a while ago the Mccanns employ Lift Consulting in Portugal, a PR and communications company, affiliate of Burton Marstellar (spelling?), someone Clarence Mitchell worked for or still does IIRC
Anyone know if they still do and what they actually do? In the search for Madeleine Mccann?
Regarding going back there, I think they burnt their bridges with many of their words and actions over the years, they are not liked over there in general from what I gather, the media in the UK are hugely responsible for this as well, including various talking heads and a couple of govt ministers
-
Didn't Amy Fitzpatricks mum, hire Metado3? I'm sure she did.
-
Her full answer in fact was ''Yes if that's what the investigation thinks'' She was being ironic, and who could bame her when the people who WERE harming the investigation by trying to frame her instead of looking for Madeleine were the very same people accusing HER of harming the investigation. The supreme irony of that whole situation would hardly have escaped her - wouldn't you agree?
Whatever the situation Mrs McCann reveals a remarkable and unfailing sense of derision :
It was not until about 11.10pm that two policemen arrived from the nearest town, Lagos, about five miles away. To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn?t shake the images of Tweedledum and Tweedledee out of my head.
What an awful sanctimonious thing to write about two GNR officers who had gone to their aid. Who was she expecting..the CIA or Colombo? @)(++(*
Perhaps she didn't realise that in Portugal you get what are effectively soldiers untrained in actual police investigations when you call for the police. She was probably expecting trained police officers.
A shame that the system did not seem geared up to dealing with a missing child effectively.
-
Didn't Amy Fitzpatricks mum, hire Metado3? I'm sure she did.
Most probably them, at some stage, it was reported they used the same detectives as the Mccanns did, I doubt it was Edgar and Cowley
-
Before I get accused of being an anti lets be clear about this. As a parent of three great sons I have every sympathy with the McCanns and what they have suffered since losing Maddie in 2007. They were forced into making rash decisions at the time of the abduction and were misled by many people into maybe not making the right decisions at the time. That said though, they have had years to get their act together, Kate looking after the family home while Gerry goes out to work. All very well I hear you say but what about Maddie?
Someone posted the aims of the Madeleine fund earlier and something struck me about it. One of the aims was to see Madeleine return home to her family. Return home? Should that not be go out and find her? It all sounds terribly passive to me, sit back and let someone else search for her? And pleeeeeeaaasssseee don't respond with the same old tripe that they don't speak Portuguese or might get mugged or must look after the twins now or some other silly excuse. I must say though I do agree with Angelo when he says if it was his kid he would be out there looking and digging and searching until the end.
Bloody too right I would. No stupid job in England or a bunch of tossers or some anti campaign would hold me back if someone lifted my daughter. I would search the s..mbags out and deal with them man to man. No pussy footing around like Tom and Jerry.
It must make you feel so good to make such a testosterone fuelled post. "Man to man" eh? How do you suggest they go about this? Knock on every door in PDL and batter the occupants of the house to give them information "man to man" like?
Do explain.
-
Found it!
Mum hires Maddie team in Amy ransom note scam
Alan O'Keeffe– 02 June 2009 09:58 AM
Private detectives asked to investigate a ransom demand for missing Dublin teenager Amy Fitzpatrick told her mother they had previously worked on Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
Audrey Fitzpatrick revealed for the first time that she had retained a Spanish-based firm of private detectives in the search for her teenage daughter.
Bogus
She has only disclosed her agreement with the Spanish private investigators after an apparently bogus ransom incident, she said.
Speaking from her home on the Costa del Sol in Spain, she told the Herald that two private detectives working for a Barcelona-based firm of investigators had worked in the past on the case of missing tot Madeleine in Portugal. She said she had not told any members of her family that she had engaged the private detectives until recently.
Amy's father Christopher Fitzpatrick, who had been married to Audrey, had hired an Irish private investigator to join the search. Mr Fitzpatrick lives in Dublin and their son Dean now lives with him, having moved back from Spain following Amy's disappearance.
Amy was 15 when she disappeared in Spain on January 1 last year while walking from a friend's house to her home in the Costa del Sol. A police search has failed to find any trace of the Dublin teenager.
Audrey said that she contacted both the police and the Barcelona firm when she received a cruel ransom demand for information.
An African man had telephoned her and asked if she was Amy's mother. When she confirmed she was her mother, the caller said Amy had been kidnapped and was being held in Madrid.
He told her he would call back in two hours with a name and an address in the Spanish capital.
"So I agreed, of course. Five hours later, I got a text to say 'Can you pay us €500,000? Yes or no? Send your answer now and we will send you all the information you need. Two hours later he texted again saying he was still waiting for my answer. I'm almost certain it was a con but there is a chance he has something. There is no proof yet," said Audrey.
Audrey said she contacted the Spanish police, who have been investigating Amy's disappearance, and the private detectives.
Scam
Later, both were able to establish that the callers were using two different pay-as-you-go telephones which were untraceable.
Audrey said: "Although I know it was a scam, I must admit that if I had a suitcase of money worth a half-a-million euro, I would have just said 'okay, where and when do you want it.'
"My heart had been in my mouth and I had been praying."
-
Found it!
Mum hires Maddie team in Amy ransom note scam
Alan O'Keeffe– 02 June 2009 09:58 AM
Private detectives asked to investigate a ransom demand for missing Dublin teenager Amy Fitzpatrick told her mother they had previously worked on Madeleine McCann's disappearance.
Audrey Fitzpatrick revealed for the first time that she had retained a Spanish-based firm of private detectives in the search for her teenage daughter.
Bogus
She has only disclosed her agreement with the Spanish private investigators after an apparently bogus ransom incident, she said.
Speaking from her home on the Costa del Sol in Spain, she told the Herald that two private detectives working for a Barcelona-based firm of investigators had worked in the past on the case of missing tot Madeleine in Portugal. She said she had not told any members of her family that she had engaged the private detectives until recently.
Amy's father Christopher Fitzpatrick, who had been married to Audrey, had hired an Irish private investigator to join the search. Mr Fitzpatrick lives in Dublin and their son Dean now lives with him, having moved back from Spain following Amy's disappearance.
Amy was 15 when she disappeared in Spain on January 1 last year while walking from a friend's house to her home in the Costa del Sol. A police search has failed to find any trace of the Dublin teenager.
Audrey said that she contacted both the police and the Barcelona firm when she received a cruel ransom demand for information.
An African man had telephoned her and asked if she was Amy's mother. When she confirmed she was her mother, the caller said Amy had been kidnapped and was being held in Madrid.
He told her he would call back in two hours with a name and an address in the Spanish capital.
"So I agreed, of course. Five hours later, I got a text to say 'Can you pay us €500,000? Yes or no? Send your answer now and we will send you all the information you need. Two hours later he texted again saying he was still waiting for my answer. I'm almost certain it was a con but there is a chance he has something. There is no proof yet," said Audrey.
Audrey said she contacted the Spanish police, who have been investigating Amy's disappearance, and the private detectives.
Scam
Later, both were able to establish that the callers were using two different pay-as-you-go telephones which were untraceable.
Audrey said: "Although I know it was a scam, I must admit that if I had a suitcase of money worth a half-a-million euro, I would have just said 'okay, where and when do you want it.'
"My heart had been in my mouth and I had been praying."
So all those people who think the sun shines out of the proverbial where Audrey and Dave are concerned simply choose to ignore the fact that this couple employed the very same Metodo 3 who the anti McCanns use as a hammer to attack the McCanns.
More rampant hypocrisy.
If it was wrong for the McCanns to hire Metodo 3 it was equally wrong for this couple to do so.
Why am I not surprised that those who use every little decision by the McCanns to lambast them are so hypocritical and don't do the same to Audrey and Dave?
-
Not at all, I am not an apologist for the McCanns like you appear to be. I mentioned yesterday that the Needhams and the Fitzpatricks are to be applauded for their tireless search for their child which in the end proved fruitless. At least they got out there and did something. What have the McCanns done???
Remind me what did Amy's stepfather do? You know the stepfather who was at least partly responsible for the child, Amy, whilst she was in Spain?
Ah yes, its coming to me now. He stabbed the brother of Amy and killed him and dropped the knife down a drain before leaving him to die, just before that brother was allegedly going to tell the police something interesting about the death of his sister.
If that is what you call doing something, I am afraid I prefer the McCann actions.
I did post Fitzpatrick as in Amy's surname. Did you get that?? The stepfather is called David Mahon!! @)(++(*
No surprise that you show yourself up by considering this so amusing.
OK lets stick with the Fitzpatrick name.
Would that be the mother who has no qualms about this stepfather Dave Mahon who knifed her son who was allegedly going to the police with information and then threw the knife down a drain before fleeing and falling to sleep in his fathers home (sleeping it off maybe?)?
-
So all those people who think the sun shines out of the proverbial where Audrey and Dave are concerned simply choose to ignore the fact that this couple employed the very same Metodo 3 who the anti McCanns use as a hammer to attack the McCanns.
More rampant hypocrisy.
If it was wrong for the McCanns to hire Metodo 3 it was equally wrong for this couple to do so.
Why am I not surprised that those who use every little decision by the McCanns to lambast them are so hypocritical and don't do the same to Audrey and Dave?
Amazing isn't it.
In the mothers book, she says she spoke to Amy , on New Years Day. Now thats a bit odd, because Amy's phone was found under a load of clothes on her bed. So Amy must have been at home >@@(*&)
-
So all those people who think the sun shines out of the proverbial where Audrey and Dave are concerned simply choose to ignore the fact that this couple employed the very same Metodo 3 who the anti McCanns use as a hammer to attack the McCanns.
More rampant hypocrisy.
If it was wrong for the McCanns to hire Metodo 3 it was equally wrong for this couple to do so.
Why am I not surprised that those who use every little decision by the McCanns to lambast them are so hypocritical and don't do the same to Audrey and Dave?
Amazing isn't it.
In the mothers book, she says she spoke to Amy , on New Years Day. Now thats a bit odd, because Amy's phone was found under a load of clothes on her bed. So Amy must have been at home >@@(*&)
Yes it would suggest that as a strong possibility.
-
angello does realise of course that a poster on this forum was responsible for destroying posters in Portugal
-
and the photo of the woman in the hat protesting against the Mccanns was removed immediately after I posted it.
-
The simple truth and facts are not welcome on this forum - it spoils the fun of taking the piss doesn't it?