UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Redblossom on June 14, 2013, 10:50:12 PM
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http://www.maddiealert.com/
interview with the inventor here
http://www.maddiealert.com/images/20130502_rte2fm-tubridy-maddiealer_c20197456_20197521_232_.mp3
is it just me? Or do the references to only renting ground floor flats so kids dont fall over balconies and blowing curtains and wondering if their kids were in bed or not under thr blankets, and panic setting in seem reminiscent of bits of kates book
Not to mention the big patio doors angle
>@@(*&)
Nite nite peeps
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Good of them to keep Kate and Gerry informed ?>)()<
About MADDIE Alert
The MADDIE Alert System
MADDIE Alert is a groundbreaking device that was invented by parent David Dempsey after an intruder entered his 8 and 10 year old children’s bedroom in 2011 through a locked Patio Door while they slept on holidays
“I diligently locked the patio door and windows before I went to bed, the next morning when I was passing my kids room all I could see was the patio door curtains blowing inwards, immediately my heart stopped and a feeling of terror and panic descended over me, for that split second, I thought my children where gone, thankfully the intruder only took my material possessions and not my children”.
After this terrifying incident David committed all his time and energy to invent a mobile device that would make life difficult for those who try to enter your property whether on holiday or at home. This Patent Pending invention was inspired from a passion to Make A Difference, Deter Intruder Entry thus the acronym MADDIE Alert was born.
David and his family were in Portugal shortly after the little girl Madeleine Mc Cann was abducted, the abduction of Madeleine had a particular long lasting impact on David and he has never once gave up hope on the safe return for Madeleine. Madeleine's parents Kate and Jerry have been kept informed of MADDIE Alert and are happy that positive things are happening and been developed in light of everything that has happened to their child.
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I thought my children where (SIC) gone, thankfully the intruder only took my material possessions and not my children”.
This didn't happen in PDL, no even in Portugal. But the Madeleine effect worked (I thought my children were gone) and, though only the convertible into cash had disappeared, the Madeleine effect unexpectedly gave origin to a Madeleine Alert invention ! Will the inventor make money out of it ? And will he have to compensate the Madeleine Fund?
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This didn't happen in PDL, no even in Portugal. But the Madeleine effect worked (I thought my children were gone) and, though only the convertible into cash had disappeared, the Madeleine effect unexpectedly gave origin to a Madeleine Alert invention ! Will the inventor make money out of it ? And will he have to compensate the Madeleine Fund?
What loss would the fund suffer as a result of this man's invention which makes you ask whether it will have to be compensated?
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http://www.maddiealert.com/
interview with the inventor here
http://www.maddiealert.com/images/20130502_rte2fm-tubridy-maddiealer_c20197456_20197521_232_.mp3
is it just me? Or do the references to only renting ground floor flats so kids dont fall over balconies and blowing curtains and wondering if their kids were in bed or not under thr blankets, and panic setting in seem reminiscent of bits of kates book
Not to mention the big patio doors angle
>@@(*&)
Nite nite peeps
So what do you deduce from that observation Red?
It sounds like a brilliant alarm system to me - small, portable and 100 percent effective. He invented it because of what had happened to Madeleine, which for a few nightmarish, heartstopping moments he thought had happened to his daughter. If it prevents only one would-be abductor from entering an apartment, then it will have been worth it. 'MADDIE' is not Madeleine's name, but everyone associates it with her, and so there is the added benefit that it will help to keep her profile high.
It seems like an all round 'win-win' situation to me. Wouldn't you agree?
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So what do you deduce from that observation Red?
It sounds like a brilliant alarm system to me - small, portable and 100 percent effective. He invented it because of what had happened to Madeleine, which for a few nightmarish, heartstopping moments he thought had happened to his daughter. If it prevents only one would-be abductor from entering an apartment, then it will have been worth it. 'MADDIE' is not Madeleine's name, but everyone associates it with her, and so there is the added benefit that it will help to keep her profile high.
It seems like an all round 'win-win' situation to me. Wouldn't you agree?
Pity it won't stopping children disappearing while the patio doors are left deliberately open. Now that WOULD be helpful !
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Pity it won't stopping children disappearing while the patio doors are left deliberately open. Now that WOULD be helpful !
Would be even more helpful if people stopped using the Baby Listening Services and also stopped relying on Baby monitors. Neither can guarantee that their sleeping children will remain safe and would be no deterrent at all to a determined abductor imo. I can't believe so many parents still do this after what happened to Madeleine.
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Would be even more helpful if people stopped using the Baby Listening Services and also stopped relying on Baby monitors. Neither can guarantee that their sleeping children will remain safe and would be no deterrent at all to a determined abductor imo. I can't believe so many parents still do this after what happened to Madeleine.
It would Benice or not doing their own when they've been told because of the spread out nature of the complex that it's unsafe.
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It would Benice or not doing their own when they've been told because of the spread out nature of the complex that it's unsafe.
I don't believe it was ever suggested by MW that ANYTHING was unsafe about their complex when it came to children. They were advertised as child friendly and families were encouraged to stay there.
There is no way IMO that MW could have given the reason they stopped the Listening service as being because it was 'unsafe' without having to explain why. And as we know the tour operators had made a decision not to make public the fact that they knew that British children had been assaulted in holiday apartments in the area, or the fact that burglaries were rife.
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I don't believe it was ever suggested by MW that ANYTHING was unsafe about their complex when it came to children. They were advertised as child friendly and families were encouraged to stay there.
There is no way IMO that MW could have given the reason they stopped the Listening service as being because it was 'unsafe' without having to explain why. And as we know the tour operators had made a decision not to make public the fact that they knew that British children had been assaulted in holiday apartments in the area, or the fact that burglaries were rife.
They did explain why. The fact that the complex was spread out over the village made it unsafe to carry outa listening service.why do you think MW didn't offer this service in PDL but did at other resorts ?
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Pity it won't stopping children disappearing while the patio doors are left deliberately open. Now that WOULD be helpful !
Common sense. Isn't it absurd to invent alarms each time more sophisticated and also each time more ingeniously bypassed when the old locking gesture would be enough ? Are Canadians, who have no lock on their doors, more burglarized ?
Owners of a Picasso have an alarm against rob because the Insurance Companies require it.
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There is no way IMO that MW could have given the reason they stopped the Listening service as being because it was 'unsafe' without having to explain why. And as we know the tour operators had made a decision not to make public the fact that they knew that British children had been assaulted in holiday apartments in the area, or the fact that burglaries were rife.
They didn't stop the service, there never was any in PDL.
Where have you read, Benice, that tour operators took the arbitrary decision to conceal British kids had been assaulted in their resorts ? And which area exactly ?
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Common sense. Isn't it absurd to invent alarms each time more sophisticated and also each time more ingeniously bypassed when the old locking gesture would be enough ? Are Canadians, who have no lock on their doors, more burglarized ?
Owners of a Picasso have an alarm against rob because the Insurance Companies require it.
The inventor found that his patio door which he had left locked, was open the next morning. An intruder had got into his children's bedroom and other areas of the apartment. That is the whole reason why he invented the MADDIE alarm.
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As far as I'm aware, MW did offer nanny listening services in 2007 - but not in PdL.
http://s215.photobucket.com/user/blaize_030/media/MarkWarnerRoomlisteningDrop.jpg.html
I didn't post that screenshot, but it corresponds to what I remember from their 2007 brochure.
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They didn't stop the service, there never was any in PDL.
Where have you read, Benice, that tour operators took the arbitrary decision to conceal British kids had been assaulted in their resorts ? And which area exactly ?
The details are in Kate's book Anne - told to her by the British Consul and confirmed by approaches made by British parents to the UK police telling them of what had happened to their children.
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The details are in Kate's book Anne - told to her by the British Consul and confirmed by approaches made by British parents to the UK police telling them of what had happened to their children.
I'm not saying this is false, but, because nothing wasn't reported to the police, this is hearsay and only that.
Now, helped by celebs that publicly told they had been raped, raped girls and women have gained courage to go to the police, they understand that action is the beginning of wounds' healing.
I admit families of molested teens might have no courage to tell the police. But either you tell it or you keep it totally secret. The costs for society of adopting neither an attitude nor the other are considerable : rumours instead of tangible reality, fears instead of lucidity.
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Common sense. Isn't it absurd to invent alarms each time more sophisticated and also each time more ingeniously bypassed when the old locking gesture would be enough ? Are Canadians, who have no lock on their doors, more burglarized ?
Owners of a Picasso have an alarm against rob because the Insurance Companies require it.
Canadians don't have locks on doors???
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The inventor found that his patio door which he had left locked, was open the next morning. An intruder had got into his children's bedroom and other areas of the apartment. That is the whole reason why he invented the MADDIE alarm.
Why "Maddie" ? There was no attempt of stealing his children. Actually stealing children from their bed is yet an extremely rare event.
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Canadians don't have locks on doors???
Many don't and it's well known.
I remember (in France) my family house's door was only locked by my father when he went to bed. And there was a handle on the door so everybody actually could have got in (which isn't the case in Canada).
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I'm not saying this is false, but, because nothing wasn't reported to the police, this is hearsay and only that.
Now, helped by celebs that publicly told they had been raped, raped girls and women have gained courage to go to the police, they understand that action is the beginning of wounds' healing.
I admit families of molested teens might have no courage to tell the police. But either you tell it or you keep it totally secret. The costs for society of adopting neither an attitude nor the other are considerable : rumours instead of tangible reality, fears instead of lucidity.
How can it be Hearsay? - the parents DID report these assaults to the Portuguese police. After Madeline disappeared they came forward to the UK police, because of what had happened to their children in the same area.
Quote from a letter of complaint from one British mother to the Portuguese police.
''It is difficult to see with this lack of investigation or interest how a profile of this man can be built up. It did not appear to us that there was any great incentive or determination to find the offender and bring him to justice........Futhermore, it could have been so much worse.....indeed this man could go on to do much worse to another child if he's not stopped now''
Six months after that letter was sent, Madeleine was taken.
Eight cases in all had been reported - all within an hour's drive of PdL over the three years prior to Madeleine's disappearance.
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Why "Maddie" ? There was no attempt of stealing his children. Actually stealing children from their bed is yet an extremely rare event.
If you click on the link Redblossom put in her opening post - you will hear why.
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So what do you deduce from that observation Red?
It sounds like a brilliant alarm system to me - small, portable and 100 percent effective. He invented it because of what had happened to Madeleine, which for a few nightmarish, heartstopping moments he thought had happened to his daughter. If it prevents only one would-be abductor from entering an apartment, then it will have been worth it. 'MADDIE' is not Madeleine's name, but everyone associates it with her, and so there is the added benefit that it will help to keep her profile high.
It seems like an all round 'win-win' situation to me. Wouldn't you agree?
Seems a great device, just brought it to the board with the proviso of the OP, still thnk the brand name is crass as itasan intruder deterrant not an abduction deterrant
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@ Redblossom
Thanks for the OP and the links.
It actually sounds quite interesting. It could be useful to a lot of people at a reasonable price.
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How can it be Hearsay? - the parents DID report these assaults to the Portuguese police. After Madeline disappeared they came forward to the UK police, because of what had happened to their children in the same area.
Quote from a letter of complaint from one British mother to the Portuguese police.
''It is difficult to see with this lack of investigation or interest how a profile of this man can be built up. It did not appear to us that there was any great incentive or determination to find the offender and bring him to justice........Futhermore, it could have been so much worse.....indeed this man could go on to do much worse to another child if he's not stopped now''
Six months after that letter was sent, Madeleine was taken.
Eight cases in all had been reported - all within an hour's drive of PdL over the three years prior to Madeleine's disappearance.
Where have you found that letter , Benice, who wrote it ? It seems to be a complaint not against an "offender" this extract mentions without explaining what he actually did, but against the police.. the Portuguese one, for a change !
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Where have you found that letter , Benice, who wrote it ? It seems to be a complaint not against an "offender" this extract mentions without explaining what he actually did, but against the police.. the Portuguese one, for a change !
In all in Kate's book Anne. Pages 323/324.
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In all in Kate's book Anne. Pages 323/324.
Hardly a reliable source by ANY means
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Hardly why? Evidence?
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In all in Kate's book Anne. Pages 323/324.
Unfortunately, no reference, no source, no nothing, then inexorably hearsay.
Or, if you prefer, a matter of belief.
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Unfortunately, no reference, no source, no nothing, then inexorably hearsay.
Or, if you prefer, a matter of belief.
The source from where Kate obtained the information is the police files.
You are saying that witness statements (in the police files) from parents who reported sexual assaults against their children to the GNR whilst on holiday in Portugal, and then also approached the UK police to make them aware of their experiences is ''inexorably hearsay'' ?. Which part is 'hearsay'.
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The source from where Kate obtained the information is the police files.
You are saying that witness statements (in the police files) from parents who reported sexual assaults against their children to the GNR whilst on holiday in Portugal, and then also approached the UK police to make them aware of their experiences is ''inexorably hearsay'' ?. Which part is 'hearsay'.
No, Benice, I'm just saying that without a source anything is at best hearsay.
Where in the files, please ?
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No, Benice, I'm just saying that without a source anything is at best hearsay.
Where in the files, please ?
The information was part of the files in Kate's possession. They were reports from the British parents. Pages 322 and 323 of Kate's book refer to them. They were statements in English from British witnesses, which had been forwarded to the PJ by Leicestershire police. They are not hearsay. Have you actually read the book?
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The information was part of the files in Kate's possession. They were reports from the British parents. Pages 322 and 323 of Kate's book refer to them. They were statements in English from British witnesses, which had been forwarded to the PJ by Leicestershire police. They are not hearsay. Have you actually read the book?
I've read the book Benice, and, still on topic, did you find any reference in it as to why the McCanns chose to leave the patio doors unlocked ?
I may have missed it, but I found no explanation or reason given at all for them having done so .... did you ?
It's very releven to this thread, I think, given that this 'device' would have been useless in the McCann's case since the doors were unlocked in the first place
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The information was part of the files in Kate's possession. They were reports from the British parents. Pages 322 and 323 of Kate's book refer to them. They were statements in English from British witnesses, which had been forwarded to the PJ by Leicestershire police. They are not hearsay. Have you actually read the book?
Do you suggest Mrs McCann has files that aren't part of the DVD provided by the Portuguese MP ?
In Mrs McCann's book, all I read is hearsay.
I cast my mind back to what the British consul had told me in the police station in Portimão that first day about the reports there had been of intruders getting into bed with children. I needed to know more about this.
I got in touch with the retired British consul for the Algarve. He told me that he used to have regular monthly meetings with British tour operators along the coast in Albufeira, at which crime was invariably one of the topics covered. At one of these meetings in August 2006 he had been informed by the tour operators of the spate of incidents I’d heard about the day after Madeleine was taken, in which an intruder had got into holiday apartments at night, climbed into children’s beds and subjected them to various forms and degrees of molestation. It seemed the attacker would often lock the door to the parents’ bedroom before assaulting the child. In one case, the paedophile had put on some of the father’s aftershave in an attempt to soothe or deceive the child.
It was believed that this offender (or offenders) watched for patterns and routines in a family’s behaviour, established ‘weaknesses’ in the security of their apartment and determined in advance where parents and children slept. Cold shivers ran down my spine as it hit home that this might have applied to us. The British tour operators had been keen for this information to remain confidential (and you don’t have to be a genius to work out why that might be). I pressed the former British consul on what happened afterwards. Had there been an investigation? Had anybody been convicted? He wasn’t sure but thought that an immigrant construction worker had been arrested and released pending trial, which was likely to take place some years down the line. Unbelievable.
Is it unbelievable if it had to be kept confidential, as the tour operators, seemingly breaking up a promise, had told the consul ?
How could that happen (because I don't deny this kind of misfortune happens) ? See Funny Games and you'll understand the mecanisms that turn these practices possible.
Concerning the McCann family btw, they were the ones who left the door open and also none of the “consul” cases was an abduction !
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I've read the book Benice, and, still on topic, did you find any reference in it as to why the McCanns chose to leave the patio doors unlocked ?
I may have missed it, but I found no explanation or reason given at all for them having done so .... did you ?
It's very releven to this thread, I think, given that this 'device' would have been useless in the McCann's case since the doors were unlocked in the first place
No I haven't Icab - but I could make an educated guess about the patio doors - as most people will invariably take the much shorter route rather than one which is twice as long when given the choice. It's human nature.
The 'device' is irrelevant IMO because it wasn't invented when the McCanns went on holiday. It was invented as a result of what happened to Madeleine, which a father momentarily feared had happened to one of his children, and had the fright of his life. Thankfully he was wrong.
According to that gentleman the locked patio door was no problem at all for the criminal - who opened it regardless. So even a locked patio door is no guarantee against a determined intruder.
His invention is brilliant IMO and it's good to know that positive action can sometimes result from tragedy.
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Do you suggest Mrs McCann has files that aren't part of the DVD provided by the Portuguese MP ?
In Mrs McCann's book, all I read is hearsay.
I cast my mind back to what the British consul had told me in the police station in Portimão that first day about the reports there had been of intruders getting into bed with children. I needed to know more about this.
I got in touch with the retired British consul for the Algarve. He told me that he used to have regular monthly meetings with British tour operators along the coast in Albufeira, at which crime was invariably one of the topics covered. At one of these meetings in August 2006 he had been informed by the tour operators of the spate of incidents I’d heard about the day after Madeleine was taken, in which an intruder had got into holiday apartments at night, climbed into children’s beds and subjected them to various forms and degrees of molestation. It seemed the attacker would often lock the door to the parents’ bedroom before assaulting the child. In one case, the paedophile had put on some of the father’s aftershave in an attempt to soothe or deceive the child.
It was believed that this offender (or offenders) watched for patterns and routines in a family’s behaviour, established ‘weaknesses’ in the security of their apartment and determined in advance where parents and children slept. Cold shivers ran down my spine as it hit home that this might have applied to us. The British tour operators had been keen for this information to remain confidential (and you don’t have to be a genius to work out why that might be). I pressed the former British consul on what happened afterwards. Had there been an investigation? Had anybody been convicted? He wasn’t sure but thought that an immigrant construction worker had been arrested and released pending trial, which was likely to take place some years down the line. Unbelievable.
Is it unbelievable if it had to be kept confidential, as the tour operators, seemingly breaking up a promise, had told the consul ?
How could that happen (because I don't deny this kind of misfortune happens) ? See Funny Games and you'll understand the mecanisms that turn these practices possible.
Concerning the McCann family btw, they were the ones who left the door open and also none of the “consul” cases was an abduction !
Anne I have no idea how Kate came to be in possession of this part of the files, which for obvious reasons would not be allowed into the public domain.
I can only speculate that the Leicester police considered them significant enough for Kate and Gerry to know about. I assume they would have asked the families' permission first - and that unsurprisingly - that permission was gladly given. Kate is careful not to identify the families in any way, except to say they are British and that they had taken holidays at places all within an hour's drive of PdL during which their children were assaulted by intruder(s) and in most instances there was no sign of a break in.
I don't agree that information from written statements is hearsay.
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Anne I have no idea how Kate came to be in possession of this part of the files, which for obvious reasons would not be allowed into the public domain.
I can only speculate that the Leicester police considered them significant enough for Kate and Gerry to know about. I assume they would have asked the families' permission first - and that unsurprisingly - that permission was gladly given. Kate is careful not to identify the families in any way, except to say they are British and that they had taken holidays at places all within an hour's drive of PdL during which their children were assaulted by intruder(s) and in most instances there was no sign of a break in.
I don't agree that information from written statements is hearsay.
The pages from Kate's book which you refer to ( 322/323 ) definately imply that Kate read the information directly from the police files
It is odd though that Kate says ( page 367 ) that their own search had significant limitiations because the Portuguese authorites possess a great deal of material that was not included in the police file released into the public domain ... which suggests the McCanns themselves only had access to the same information we have access to
I don't think the information could have come from Leicester police, who actually won a court case the McCanns had brought against them when they were trying to get access to Leicester police files
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Anne I have no idea how Kate came to be in possession of this part of the files, which for obvious reasons would not be allowed into the public domain.
I can only speculate that the Leicester police considered them significant enough for Kate and Gerry to know about. I assume they would have asked the families' permission first - and that unsurprisingly - that permission was gladly given. Kate is careful not to identify the families in any way, except to say they are British and that they had taken holidays at places all within an hour's drive of PdL during which their children were assaulted by intruder(s) and in most instances there was no sign of a break in.
I don't agree that information from written statements is hearsay.
If you have no idea "how Mrs McCann came in possession", then she likely never was in possession of any written statement, which would appear reasonable given the clause of confidentiality.
As I said, as these cases are not abduction cases and as besides the doors weren't unlocked, I really don't see why the LC would have tortured Mr and Mrs McCann with these appalling stories.
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The information was part of the files in Kate's possession. They were reports from the British parents. Pages 322 and 323 of Kate's book refer to them. They were statements in English from British witnesses, which had been forwarded to the PJ by Leicestershire police. They are not hearsay. Have you actually read the book?
Are there any reference to the statements in the released files or merely the McCanns set ?
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Are there any reference to the statements in the released files or merely the McCanns set ?
But Kate, in her book, makes no mention of them having their own excusive 'set' of files ... in fact, she bemoans the fact that they only have access to the released files, from which much information is withheld
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If you have no idea "how Mrs McCann came in possession", then she likely never was in possession of any written statement, which would appear reasonable given the clause of confidentiality.
As I said, as these cases are not abduction cases and as besides the doors weren't unlocked, I really don't see why the LC would have tortured Mr and Mrs McCann with these appalling stories.
If Kate didn't have the statements, how could she give a direct quote from a letter written to the GNR by one of the parents? As that parent said, if this man was not caught, then he could go on to do worse than assault children in their own beds. She was complaining about the lack of investigation or action shown by the GNR.
That same lack of investigation/action would not go unnoticed by the paedaphile(s) and surely would encourage them to believe they could take things to another level if they wanted to IMO.
I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here Anne, are you saying the fact that British children had been targetted by paedaphiles in holiday complexes, in the same area from where Madeleine was abducted has no relevance? If that was the case why would the British Consul bring those cases to the attention of the McCanns in the first place. The 8 families who came forward also thought they were relevant.
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But Kate, in her book, makes no mention of them having their own excusive 'set' of files ... in fact, she bemoans the fact that they only have access to the released files, from which much information is withheld
I was being facetious Icabod 8(0(*
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If Kate didn't have the statements, how could she give a direct quote from a letter written to the GNR by one of the parents? As that parent said, if this man was not caught, then he could go on to do worse than assault children in their own beds. She was complaining about the lack of investigation or action shown by the GNR.
This letter isn't in the files, as Icabodcrane noted Mrs McCann received the same DVD as journalists and was refused access to the LC files. Then either Mrs McCann used some letter she found in some tabloid or the British consul gave her that letter, which I really can't believe.
Why should Mrs McCann "invent" a letter ? You have answered this, Benice. There's no other reason as Madeleine wasn't molested in her bed.
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This letter isn't in the files, as Icabodcrane noted Mrs McCann received the same DVD as journalists and was refused access to the LC files. Then either Mrs McCann used some letter she found in some tabloid or the British consul gave her that letter, which I really can't believe.
Why should Mrs McCann "invent" a letter ? You have answered this, Benice. There's no other reason as Madeleine wasn't molested in her bed.
Quote from Kate's book.
These incidents had occurred within an hour's drive of Praia da Luz over the three years prior to Madeleines disappearance. Th PJ had never mentioned any of them to us. In fact I gathered from the files, some of them hadn't even been recorded by the authorities at the time they were reported (evidently they were not considered to be actual crimes). So they might never have come to light if the parents of these childen hadn't been brave enough to come forward to the British police after Madeleine was taken and relive their nightmares. They did so in the belief that there could be a link between what had happened to their children and what had happened to her.
Unquote.
I don't believe Kate would be so stupid as to make any of that up - knowing that it could be immediately exposed as lies by the Leicester police. That makes no sense.
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If Kate didn't have the statements, how could she give a direct quote from a letter written to the GNR by one of the parents? As that parent said, if this man was not caught, then he could go on to do worse than assault children in their own beds. She was complaining about the lack of investigation or action shown by the GNR.
That same lack of investigation/action would not go unnoticed by the paedaphile(s) and surely would encourage them to believe they could take things to another level if they wanted to IMO.
I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here Anne, are you saying the fact that British children had been targetted by paedaphiles in holiday complexes, in the same area from where Madeleine was abducted has no relevance? If that was the case why would the British Consul bring those cases to the attention of the McCanns in the first place. The 8 families who came forward also thought they were relevant.
A question
It is not just the McCann investigation that was released to the public is it ? ... I take it all investigations ( once closed or shelved ) are freely available to view ?
Could it be that the McCanns got hold of the files of the investigations of the children in question ? ... could it be that when Kate refered to 'police files' she was actually refering to police files other than the ones related to Madeleine ?
Is that a possibility do you think ?
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in the mccanns c4 documentary there was footage of pages which are not in the police dvd given out, now these could be pages typed up by their private investigators who who knows may have gone and interviewed people in the uk as no one was stopping them, it was just illegal in portugal to carry on a parallel investigation
The issue of the sex attacks on british children is bewildering, but mustbe as KM said, told to her by British authorities, she cant be THAT brass necked to lie about them
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The issue of the sex attacks on british children is bewildering, but mustbe as KM said, told to her by British authorities, she cant be THAT brass necked to lie about them
Sex attacks aren't limited to the Algarve, unfortunately, it happens in Alaska as well. Bewildering is they are limited to British children. No German, not Norwegian (the more important communities after the British). Did those predators, possibly part of the 40 some paedophiles residents listed by the British thanks to Madeleine's disappearance, need to communicate ?
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Sex attacks aren't limited to the Algarve, unfortunately, it happens in Alaska as well. Bewildering is they are limited to British children. No German, not Norwegian (the more important communities after the British). Did those predators, possibly part of the 40 some paedophiles residents listed by the British thanks to Madeleine's disappearance, need to communicate ?
Its obvious that the information has been manipulated
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A question
It is not just the McCann investigation that was released to the public is it ? ... I take it all investigations ( once closed or shelved ) are freely available to view ?
Could it be that the McCanns got hold of the files of the investigations of the children in question ? ... could it be that when Kate refered to 'police files' she was actually refering to police files other than the ones related to Madeleine ?
Is that a possibility do you think ?
You can consult shelved files if you're able to indicate some reference, a name, a date, a place. The tour operators broke the clause of confidentiality mentioning their clients' misadventures to the British consul but asked himl to respect confidentiality. He broke it telling Mrs McCann. For what reason unless he intended to warn her against the Portuguese police, since there was no abduction in these cases ? Would a British consul give references in order for a Portuguese speaking clerk to get files and study them ?
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A question
It is not just the McCann investigation that was released to the public is it ? ... I take it all investigations ( once closed or shelved ) are freely available to view ?
Could it be that the McCanns got hold of the files of the investigations of the children in question ? ... could it be that when Kate refered to 'police files' she was actually refering to police files other than the ones related to Madeleine ?
Is that a possibility do you think ?
No I don't because it's perfectly clear from Kates book that the accounts from families whose children had been assaulted came from within the 5,000 page File which Kate refers to.
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No I don't because it's perfectly clear from Kates book that the accounts from families whose children had been assaulted came from within the 5,000 page File which Kate refers to.
I agree that is what Kate leads us to believe in her book, although she does not explicitly say as much
Given that the information she refers to does not appear to be in the released files, I think it fair to question whether the McCanns may have taken the information from the individual police files on these children
It would be possible, and there is nothing to say they didn't ( and it would explain how they have information that no-one else can find in the released files )
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I agree that is what Kate leads us to believe in her book, although she does not explicitly say as much
Given that the information she refers to does not appear to be in the released files, I think it fair to question whether the McCanns may have taken the information from the individual police files on these children
It would be possible, and there is nothing to say they didn't ( and it would explain how they have information that no-one else can find in the released files )
I would have thought that sensitive information such as assaults on children would have been part of the restricted material (i.e., not accessible to the general public), but may have formed part of the files handed over to the McCanns.
The parents might have copied their correspondence to the hotline in case it could be of any help, which then got put in the files.
Who knows?
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I would have thought that sensitive information such as assaults on children would have been part of the restricted material (i.e., not accessible to the general public), but may have formed part of the files handed over to the McCanns.
The parents might have copied their correspondence to the hotline in case it could be of any help, which then got put in the files.
Who knows?
There's no reason why files about assaults on teens in their beds should be in the Madeleine files. And, quoting Icabodcrane
The pages from Kate's book which you refer to ( 322/323 ) definately imply that Kate read the information directly from the police files
It is odd though that Kate says ( page 367 ) that their own search had significant limitiations because the Portuguese authorites possess a great deal of material that was not included in the police file released into the public domain ... which suggests the McCanns themselves only had access to the same information we have access to
I don't think the information could have come from Leicester police, who actually won a court case the McCanns had brought against them when they were trying to get access to Leicester police files
If the parent of a molested child sent the quoted letter to the McCann, then why doesn't Mrs McCann say so ?
What will readers conclude ?
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There's no reason why files about assaults on teens in their beds should be in the Madeleine files. And, quoting Icabodcrane
The pages from Kate's book which you refer to ( 322/323 ) definately imply that Kate read the information directly from the police files
It is odd though that Kate says ( page 367 ) that their own search had significant limitiations because the Portuguese authorites possess a great deal of material that was not included in the police file released into the public domain ... which suggests the McCanns themselves only had access to the same information we have access to
I don't think the information could have come from Leicester police, who actually won a court case the McCanns had brought against them when they were trying to get access to Leicester police files
If the parent of a molested child sent the quoted letter to the McCann, then why doesn't Mrs McCann say so ?
What will readers conclude ?
Why is it deemed important how they got hold of this information?
LP actually did hand over a certain number of pieces of information, which had come into the hotline in the first place and had been handed over to the police.
Something would seem to have gone wrong, and the original info had not been backed up / handed over to the McCanns.
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Why is it deemed important how they got hold of this information?
LP actually did hand over a certain number of pieces of information, which had come into the hotline in the first place and had been handed over to the police.
Something would seem to have gone wrong, and the original info had not been backed up / handed over to the McCanns.
For believers I suppose the authenticity of the information doesn't matter, but for sceptics it certainly does.
The LC handed over only what they had got from the McCanns.
I don't think that this material was communicated to the PJ, it's not in the files.
You didn't answer my question.. What will readers conclude ?
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For believers I suppose the authenticity of the information doesn't matter, but for sceptics it certainly does.
The LC handed over only what they had got from the McCanns.
I don't think that this material was communicated to the PJ, it's not in the files.
You didn't answer my question.. What will readers conclude ?
Which readers?
- Those who believe that what got leaked on the Internet on the DVD offered to journalists represents the totality of information in the files? Sex offences and privacy were an issue in what was officially made public.
- Those who think it plausible that the McCanns had access to a bit more information that wasn't included on the DVD made accessible to journalists?
- Those who find it plausible that the McCanns had requested withheld information from LP which had been rerouted via their own enquiry in the first place?
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Which readers?
- Those who believe that what got leaked on the Internet on the DVD offered to journalists represents the totality of information in the files? Sex offences and privacy were an issue in what was officially made public.
- Those who think it plausible that the McCanns had access to a bit more information that wasn't included on the DVD made accessible to journalists?
- Those who find it plausible that the McCanns had requested withheld information from LP which had been rerouted via their own enquiry in the first place?
But readers who only know the story Mrs McCann tells and take it at first degree ?
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But readers who only know the story Mrs McCann tells and take it at first degree ?
What about those who are predisposed to doubt them and who may have been influenced by headlines and possibly edited replies that they had "refused"?
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What about those who are predisposed to doubt them and who may have been influenced by headlines and possibly edited replies that they had "refused"?
Carana, I renounce, no doubt you don't want to answer, which is in itself an answer.
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Carana, I renounce, no doubt you don't want to answer, which is in itself an answer.
I didn't.
I don't know
I simply offered three possibilities which I find plausible.
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I didn't.
I don't know
I simply offered three possibilities which I find plausible.
I don't think it is justified to 'assume' the McCanns were given more information than that which is in the released police files
Kate, herself, says in her book :
"Crucially, we do not have access to all of the information that has come in to the enquiry. The Portuguese authorities possess a great deal of material that was not included in the police file released into the public domain"
I would say that indicates that the McCanns have access to files released to the public, and nothing more
Kate adds :
"The British police, too, hold information we do not have"
It is highly unlikely that the British police would have released such sensitive information to the McCanns when they had gone as far as the High Court to deny the McCanns accesss to police files they had requested access to
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I don't think it is justified to 'assume' the McCanns were given more information than that which is in the released police files
Kate, herself, says in her book :
"Crucially, we do not have access to all of the information that has come in to the enquiry. The Portuguese authorities possess a great deal of material that was not included in the police file released into the public domain"
I would say that indicates that the McCanns have access to files released to the public, and nothing more
Kate adds :
"The British police, too, hold information we do not have"
It is highly unlikely that the British police would have released such sensitive information to the McCanns when they had gone as far as the High Court to deny the McCanns accesss to police files they had requested access to
Thing is, their private investigators in spain at the time (though they had to watch their step as it was illegal running a parallel investigation) but more so later in the uk with the new PIS Edgar and Cowley,after the files were released And the case shelved,were not stopped by anyone interviewing and talking to people who they found in the files...in fact there were witness statements referred to and pictured in the mccans documentary in 2009 which were not in the released dvd...still that doesnt mean they were given info by the PJ or Lp that was supposed to be kept secret I guess
i also wonder what the mccanns PIs found from July 2008 till recently before they were put on HOLD, and after having the luxury of working from 100k paid for professionally translated files, nothing it seems...6 years later, millions spent alledgedly by the mccanns and zilch of any abduction or credible lead, the same for SY, 5m spent to date an old discredited and eliminated and irrelevant leads being brought up as new potential evidence, old sightings beinghashed out in the press ad nauseum and some of them having the facts *altered* for *some strange reason* but theyhavebeen doing this for a good while, they must think the portuguese authorities and the general public both there and in the uk are are imbeciles
@)(++(*
The PT investigation was hampered, and in fact obstructed by too much busy bodying from day one hour one right up to when itwas shelved and later by various factions, it is THEM that hampered the search and solving IMO, as much criminal as the alledged scarlet pimpernel abductor
Nite now
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The PT investigation was hampered, and in fact obstructed by too much busy bodying from day one hour one right up to when itwas shelved and later by various factions, it is THEM that hampered the search and solving IMO, as much criminal as the alledged scarlet pimpernel abductor[/b]
Nite now
8)-))) @)(++(* True to character, Red, and it isn't even late at night yet!
So Kate and Gerry are criminals now?
Wonder why they were released wthout charge then?
Libel, Red