UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: Mrs. B on June 21, 2013, 12:29:40 PM
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New hope in Maddy inquiry as CPS lawyers travel to Portugal
Government lawyers have travelled to Portugal to meet police and prosecution officials to discuss new leads in the Madeleine McCann inquiry.
The trip is the first time that lawyers from the Crown Prosecution Service have visited Portugal in connection with Scotland Yard’s £5 million review of the case.
Home Secretary Theresa May is now expected to announce a full-scale Yard investigation into the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine in May 2007.
London’s chief crown prosecutor Alison Saunders and her deputy Jenny Hopkins flew to Portugal in April to meet counterparts to discuss leads identified in the Met’s review.
Last month the Standard revealed that detectives had identified a list of potential suspects. Detective Chief Superintendent Hamish Campbell, who supervised the review, said there were a “good number” of people who should be questioned as well as “further forensic opportunities”.
The list is thought to number around 20, including Britons. The potential suspects are thought to include a handful of known child-sex offenders who are believed to have been in the Algarve when Madeleine disappeared.
The visit by senior CPS lawyers underlines the belief among senior detectives that the case could be solved.
Portuguese police led the search for Madeleine after she went missing from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz while her parents dined nearby.
The investigation was shelved in 2008 but the Yard launched a Home Office-funded review in 2011 after David Cameron intervened at the request of Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry McCann. The review team examined hundreds of thousands of documents from the Portuguese investigation and enquiries by a private detective agency employed by Madeleine’s family and identified 195 potential leads.
A full Yard investigation would allow police to interview suspects in Britain though they would seek the assistance of the Portuguese to carry out any enquiries there.
A CPS spokesman said: “We continue to work with the police on this case.”
A Home Office spokesman said it had agreed to “provide the Metropolitan Police with the resources they need”.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/new-hope-in-maddy-inquiry-as-cps-lawyers-travel-to-portugal-8668335.html
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What to say? Portugal cannot go on ignoring the cock up. Can they?
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First time I've heard anything about the CPS lawyers getting in on the action, perhaps someone could remind us again at what stage CPS start moving in?
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London’s chief crown prosecutor Alison Saunders and her deputy Jenny Hopkins flew to Portugal in April to meet counterparts to discuss leads identified in the Met’s review.
Sounds hopeful.
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Good heavens, Women? How can this be? But then there is a woman in charge of The PJ Investigation.
Mayhap Portugal has decided that misogynistic Portuguese PJ Officers are not the best people to investigate Child Abduction, and that women of any kind are better at this.
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Good heavens, Women? How can this be? But then there is a woman in charge of The PJ Investigation.
Mayhap Portugal has decided that misogynistic Portuguese PJ Officers are not the best people to investigate Child Abduction, and that women of any kind are better at this.
The Madeleine investigation goes to the
...
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WOMEN!!!
(And a much better fist they are likely to make of it than the men) ....
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Or the dogs ...
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First time I've heard anything about the CPS lawyers getting in on the action, perhaps someone could remind us again at what stage CPS start moving in?
I may be wrong, but I`m sure the CPS is purely there to decide whether a case is worth persuing - they will be deciding whether there is enough evidence to bring charges against a person or persons suggested.
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Actually, you don't have to female to know that the investigation was a cock up. But you might have to be female to admit that it was.
I am enormously heartened to know that women are now very much involved.
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Actually, you don't have to female to know that the investigation was a cock up. But you might have to be female to admit that it was.
I am enormously heartened to know that women are now very much involved.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
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I may be wrong, but I`m sure the CPS is purely there to decide whether a case is worth persuing - they will be deciding whether there is enough evidence to bring charges against a person or persons suggested.
I was under that impression too xtina
I thought the Crown Prosecution Service only became involved once charges were imminent, and a decision had to be made whether the case against the accused was strong enough for the charges to be brought
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Home Secretary Theresa May is now expected to announce a full-scale Yard investigation into the disappearance of three-year-old Madeleine in May 2007.
The visit by senior CPS lawyers underlines the belief among senior detectives that the case could be solved.
Don't think she would announce any of this without some sort of evidence!
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What's this about?
I'm not sexist.
Men can be just as good as women.
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People on other sites getting very excited - that this means the McCann's are about to be arrested and the CPS are in Portugal just clearing things with the PJ
This is the case that keeps on giving !!!
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People on other sites getting very excited - that this means the McCann's are about to be arrested and the CPS are in Portugal just clearing things with the PJ
This is the case that keeps on giving !!!
A lot of dreaming and wishful thinking going on, there then, south of the river. @)(++(*
I wonder if Amaral will be questioned? Now that I'd love to see!
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Woo-hoo!
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People on other sites getting very excited - that this means the McCann's are about to be arrested and the CPS are in Portugal just clearing things with the PJ
This is the case that keeps on giving !!!
well it is possible ...it could go either way ...
wasn't only a third of the files actually released...
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I would love to see k mcc finally aswer the 48 questions ...[mind you she will have had six years to think about them]
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People on other sites getting very excited - that this means the McCann's are about to be arrested and the CPS are in Portugal just clearing things with the PJ
This is the case that keeps on giving !!!
It is jumping to conclusions to suggest the McCanns and their friends are in the frame again, and are about to be charged with some criminal act ... but it is certainly not unreasonable to think someone is potentially being considered for prosecution
Why else would the Crown Prosecution Service be involved at this stage ? ... and not just any old CPS representative, but it's Head and Deputy !
It is possible, even likely, don't you think, that Scotland Yard have completed their review and passed it to the CPS who are now considering whether to bring charges against the person/persons against whom there is 'evidence' of wrong doing
They would, necessarily, have to be British suspects because if they were Portuguese the Crown Prosecution Service would have no part to play
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What's this about?
I'm not sexist.
Men can be just as good as women.
Really? I must have missed that one when Amaral was trying to stitch up Kate McCann.
Perhaps this just pertains to Portugal.
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wasn't only a third of the files actually released...
What do you suppose the Prosecutors didn't see?
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wasn't only a third of the files actually released...
What do you suppose the Prosecutors didn't see?
Any new evidence that has emerged since he made his conclusions ?
Why do think the Head of the Crown Prosecution Service ( and her Deputy ) were in Portugal ?
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Xtina was suggesting that only a third of the original file was released ...
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Any new evidence that has emerged since he made his conclusions ?
Why do think the Head of the Crown Prosecution Service ( and her Deputy ) were in Portugal ?
London’s chief crown prosecutor Alison Saunders and her deputy Jenny Hopkins flew to Portugal in April to meet counterparts to discuss leads identified in the Met’s review.
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Xtina was suggesting that only a third of the original file was released ...
So Kate had more files than anyone else? Even the AG! @)(++(*
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London’s chief crown prosecutor Alison Saunders and her deputy Jenny Hopkins flew to Portugal in April to meet counterparts to discuss leads identified in the Met’s review.
Why would the Head of the Crown Prosecution Service ( and her Deputy ) be 'discussing leads' ?
That's not their job ... they are not investigators, they are prosecutors
They come into play when all 'leads' have already been investigated and a case for potential prosecution is put before them. If the case for prosecution is weak, and unlikely to result in conviction, they may advise on what further evidence might be sought in order to strengthen the case
In this instance, the case for prosecution that has already been made and put before them ( they wouldn't be involved if that had not happened ) must be with regard to a British person/persons
If it were not a British subject then the CPS would not have been involved at all
Is that not correct ?
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It is jumping to conclusions to suggest the McCanns and their friends are in the frame again, and are about to be charged with some criminal act ... but it is certainly not unreasonable to think someone is potentially being considered for prosecution
Why else would the Crown Prosecution Service be involved at this stage ? ... and not just any old CPS representative, but it's Head and Deputy !
It is possible, even likely, don't you think, that Scotland Yard have completed their review and passed it to the CPS who are now considering whether to bring charges against the person/persons against whom there is 'evidence' of wrong doing
They would, necessarily, have to be British suspects because if they were Portuguese the Crown Prosecution Service would have no part to play
Indeed. The CPS would only have jurisdiction over a crime(s) committed in the UK
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Indeed. The CPS would only have jurisdiction over a crime(s) committed in the UK
I think in certain circumstances, the Brit police can prosecute a British citizen for a crime committed abroad, I know for sure sexual assault on women and children is on that list, and dont quote me, but murder as well, I will try find an example
Interesting development, and Blacksmith has a new blog on this
http://blacksmithbureau.blogspot.co.uk/
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People on other sites getting very excited - that this means the McCann's are about to be arrested and the CPS are in Portugal just clearing things with the PJ
This is the case that keeps on giving !!!
Yup, there's a lot of tick-tocking going on isn't there? There are going to be a lot of very disappointed people. Unless of course, SY have been "playing a blinder" like the PJ were doing back in 2007.... @)(++(*
Some even seem to think that the famous "15/17" markers will be "enough to prosecute in the UK".....
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For God' sake, I despair. What are we all doing here? Why are we bothering to answer puerile questions? There is nothing to implicate The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter, so why do we go on bothering?
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For God' sake, I despair. What are we all doing here? Why are we bothering to answer puerile questions? There is nothing to implicate The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter, so why do we go on bothering?
Which question on this thread was peurile?
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For God' sake, I despair. What are we all doing here? Why are we bothering to answer puerile questions? There is nothing to implicate The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter, so why do we go on bothering?
I understand your point, Eleanor. On a personal note, I will continue going in to bat for Kate and Gerry McCann as long as there are lies, libel and smears being promulgated. Downright lies such as the 15/19 markers, the bloody footprint and the refrigeration nonsense are STILL being spread even today. And the 6 corpses, Chaplins... 8()(((@#
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I understand your point, Eleanor. On a personal note, I will continue going in to bat for Kate and Gerry McCann as long as there are lies, libel and smears being promulgated. Downright lies such as the 15/19 markers, the bloody footprint and the refrigeration nonsense are STILL being spread even today. And the 6 corpses, Chaplins... 8()(((@#
has anyone here said the mccanns were in chaplins or that madeleine was stored in a fridge? Or that there was a bloody footprint? Why continue to import some of the more extreme ideas with no evidence at all from other places into THIS forum? is it to sully all discussion with the excesses of some in other places? Why would you want to do that? Its disingenuous and disrespectful and if you want to slag off nutters or nutty ideas do it where those discussions take place.
15/19 is technically correct and the six dead bodies has provenance, these two are slightly different from total myths
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For God' sake, I despair. What are we all doing here? Why are we bothering to answer puerile questions? There is nothing to implicate The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter, so why do we go on bothering?
At the risk of being 'puerile' in what way do you think the involvement of the British Crown Prosection Service might be a positive development for the McCanns ?
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has anyone here said the mccanns were in chaplins or that madeleine was stored in a fridge? Or that there was a bloody footprint? Why continue to import some of the more extreme ideas with no evidence at all from other places into THIS forum? is it to sully all discussion with the excesses of some in other places? Why would you want to do that? Its disingenuous and disrespectful and if you want to slag off nutters or nutty ideas do it where those discussions take place.
15/19 is technically correct and the six dead bodies has provenance, these two are slightly different from total myths
As to what?
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As to what?
15 markers of madeleines 19 were found, so IS technically correct and not a myth, how thatis interpreted is a totally different issue in a mixed sample
the provenance of the dead bodies whichMrs Mccann was in contact with IS as you know Mr Cristovaos book, (it couldbe elsewhere too) and further reported by the media in both countries so is not a media or forum myth, thats the difference basically between those examples and total myths with absolutely no evidence at all, apart from hearsay especially in the chaplins story where the only *evidence* was a forum posters posts
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15 markers of madeleines 19 were found, so IS technically correct and not a myth, how thatis interpreted is a totally different issue in a mixed sample
the provenance of the dead bodies whichMrs Mccann was in contact with IS as you know Mr Cristovaos book, (it couldbe elsewhere too) and further reported by the media in both countries so is not a media or forum myth, thats the difference basically between those examples and total myths with absolutely no evidence at all, apart from hearsay especially in the chaplins story where the only *evidence* was a forum posters posts
Might be an idea not to allow this thread to be driven off topic Redblossom
The news that the Head of the Crown Prosecution Service has been in Portugal is a major development that is worthy of unmuddied discussion
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Might be an idea not to allow this thread to be driven off topic Redblossom
The news that the Head of the Crown Prosecution Service has been in Portugal is a major development that is worthy of unmuddied discussion
yes you're right icabod - sorry that I helped in taking things off topic with the 15/19 markers etc. Back on topic! I see this as things moving in the right direction to bringing Madeleine's abductor to justice.
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Might be an idea not to allow this thread to be driven off topic Redblossom
The news that the Head of the Crown Prosecution Service has been in Portugal is a major development that is worthy of unmuddied discussion
point taken icab, you listening too granada? good!
And others?
8)--))
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Wum, wum, wum. Slap the Mccanns about ... and the Ciprianos. Bull up certian peeps in the PJ, most of whom have been found guilty of some crime .. or are awaiting trial.
That's all it is about, plus the prolification of myths
My thoughts are that some people will be dashing for cover soon. When SY gets going, bringing peeps in and charging..
cos my bet is that after the main thrust of sorting the case ... and trying to find the missing kids, they will start sorting out some of the peeps who are asking for it ... by putting out disinformation..
If the cap fits, wear it. If it doesn't you have nothing to worry about.
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I understand your point, Eleanor. On a personal note, I will continue going in to bat for Kate and Gerry McCann as long as there are lies, libel and smears being promulgated. Downright lies such as the 15/19 markers, the bloody footprint and the refrigeration nonsense are STILL being spread even today. And the 6 corpses, Chaplins... 8()(((@#
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
I feel the same too
And Eleanor is completely right as usual
For God' sake, I despair. What are we all doing here? Why are we bothering to answer puerile questions? There is nothing to implicate The McCanns in the disappearance of their daughter, so why do we go on bothering?
But we keep going.
For Justice sake
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Wum, wum, wum. Slap the Mccanns about ... and the Ciprianos. Bull up certian peeps in the PJ, most of whom have been found guilty of some crime .. or are awaiting trial.
That's all it is about, plus the prolification of myths
My thoughts are that some people will be dashing for cover soon. When SY gets going, bringing peeps in and charging..
cos my bet is that after the main thrust of sorting the case ... and trying to find the missing kids, they will start sorting out some of the peeps who are asking for it ... by putting out disinformation..
If the cap fits, wear it. If it doesn't you have nothing to worry about.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)( Well said Sadie!
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IFFF confirmed, the news seems to be:
London’s chief crown prosecutor Alison Saunders and her deputy Jenny Hopkins flew to Portugal in April to meet counterparts to discuss leads identified in the Met’s review.
If confirmed, they may have flown over to discuss various issues, some of which may not concern Madeleine. On the other hand, is it likely that two people from the CPS would have flown over and NOT discussed the way forward on this case?
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yes you're right icabod - sorry that I helped in taking things off topic with the 15/19 markers etc. Back on topic! I see this as things moving in the right direction to bringing Madeleine's abductor to justice.
If that were the case Rachel, then Scotland Yard would need to have identified the 'abductor' ... there would be no point in passing the review to the Crown Prosecution Service unless those who were suspected of committing a crime were named
If Scotland Yard HAD identified the abductor ( with supporting evidence ) then that would certainly have been sufficient to convince the Portuguese to re-open the case ... don't you think ?
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IFFF confirmed, the news seems to be:
London’s chief crown prosecutor Alison Saunders and her deputy Jenny Hopkins flew to Portugal in April to meet counterparts to discuss leads identified in the Met’s review.
If confirmed, they may have flown over to discuss various issues, some of which may not concern Madeleine. On the other hand, is it likely that two people from the CPS would have flown over and NOT discussed the way forward on this case?
Why would the british cps fly out to portugal for anything other than the madeleine case? With the met?
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IFFF confirmed, the news seems to be:
London’s chief crown prosecutor Alison Saunders and her deputy Jenny Hopkins flew to Portugal in April to meet counterparts to discuss leads identified in the Met’s review.
If confirmed, they may have flown over to discuss various issues, some of which may not concern Madeleine. On the other hand, is it likely that two people from the CPS would have flown over and NOT discussed the way forward on this case?
The only 'issue' which is of interest to the Crown Prosecution Service is whether or not to charge individuals who the police have gathered evidence against
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Right, absolutely fine.. Can we expect The McCanns to be arrested shortly? Next week? Next month? Next year? No? For heaven's sake, why not?
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Right, absolutely fine.. Can we expect The McCanns to be arrested shortly? Next week? Next month? Next year? No? For heaven's sake, why not?
You have the opportunity to offer your opinion on what the implications are for the Crown Prosection Service becoming involved
Your opinions are valued here and would be welcome
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Right, absolutely fine.. Can we expect The McCanns to be arrested shortly? Next week? Next month? Next year? No? For heaven's sake, why not?
So you cant reproduce the peurile question, fine, makes you a goal post changer
As for who the Met/CPS are honing in on you will have to ask THEM wont you? their emails arereadily avaulable, give them a buzz
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The only 'issue' which is of interest to the Crown Prosecution Service is whether or not to charge individuals who the police have gathered evidence against
Perhaps.
But perhaps not.
It could also be the first stage in trying to figure out how best to cooperate in terms of different legal frameworks.
The Madeleine case would no doubt be one... but not necessarily the only one on the agenda.
There is also the issue of fans, windows, waiting hacks...
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Dream on if youwant to be understood but NEVER do it in portuguese cos we dont understand
@)(++(*
Actually, I was replying to Ibacodcrane on the issue of CPS people going out to Portugal.
What's the issue?
NB: There does seem to be a forum hic: from never-ending quotes-within-quotes, there now seem to be none (or only one).
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Perhaps.
But perhaps not.
It could also be the first stage in trying to figure out how best to cooperate in terms of different legal frameworks.
The Madeleine case would no doubt be one... but not necessarily the only one on the agenda.
There is also the issue of fans, windows, waiting hacks...
I don't understand what you mean Carana
In what way could the Crown Prosecution Service be of assistance OTHER that advising on how a successful prosecution might be brought ?
That is their only remit
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Actually, I was replying to Ibacodcrane on the issue of CPS people going out to Portugal.
What's the issue?
NB: There does seem to be a forum hic: from never-ending quotes-within-quotes, there now seem to be none (or only one).
just REMINDING you to NOT to post in portuguese, no one wants it, no one needs it, no one understands it, and its totally useless, thats all, if you feel the need for ANY reason to post in another language you have the responsibility to include a translation, thats all, not hard and not a bad request which Im sure youcan handle in the future in this ENGLISH SPEAKING board
8((()*/
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You have the opportunity to offer your opinion on what the implications are for the Crown Prosection Service becoming involved
Your opinions are valued here and would be welcome
Okay, and thank you.
I suspect that a British Expat is in the frame, even in so far as knowing what happened. I do not believe that Hewlett would have sold his daughter to paedophiles, even being a paedophile himself, but he did admit to being approached by people who wanted to buy children. He cannot have been the only one who knew.
And in the end, i really don't care what any of you think. And I don't suppose The McCanns do either.
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Okay, and thank you.
I suspect that a British Expat is in the frame, even in so far as knowing what happened. I do not believe that Hewlett would have sold his daughter to paedophiles, even being a paedophile himself, but he did admit to being approached by people who wanted to buy children. He cannot have been the only one who knew.
And in the end, i really don't care what any of you think. And I don't suppose The McCanns do either.
No one is bothered what you think either, only EVIDENCE matters and not the machination of your or others minds
Scotland Yard cant afford a whitewash, therefore they will go with real evidence, I hope you are reading
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I don't understand what you mean Carana
In what way could the Crown Prosecution Service be of assistance OTHER that advising on how a successful prosecution might be brought ?
That is their only remit
The remit of the CPS doesn't just concern Madeleine as far as I know.
A visit may have several points on the agenda.
Hopefully, figuring out the way forward in the Madeleine case is one of them.
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Okay, and thank you.
I suspect that a British Expat is in the frame, even in so far as knowing what happened. I do not believe that Hewlett would have sold his daughter to paedophiles, even being a paedophile himself, but he did admit to being approached by people who wanted to buy children. He cannot have been the only one who knew.
And in the end, i really don't care what any of you think. And I don't suppose The McCanns do either.
Yes, that is a possibility that had occured to me too
If that were the case though, and an ex pat still living in Portugal has been implicated, wouldn't it be possible for the Portuguese to simply re-open the case and arrest him ?
I am more convinced that the person/people who's potential prosecution the CPS have been asked to consider, are currently in the UK
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The remit of the CPS doesn't just concern Madeleine as far as I know.
A visit may have several points on the agenda.
Hopefully, figuring out the way forward in the Madeleine case is one of them.
What remit of the cps? The met have a remit,its called operation grange, not the cps,the cps is brought in after evidence has been gathered,and after an investigation in a case, and before charges, what case do you think the cps has been brought into portugal for LOL, alongside the maddie team??? Jeez too many wide goalposts for me tonight see ya later when sense has returned, meanwhile im sure the cps is travelling all over the world cos they can
@)(++(*
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No one is bothered what you think either, only EVIDENCE matters and not the machination of your or others minds
Scotland Yard cant afford a whitewash, therefore they will go with real evidence, I hope you are reading
I agree with you 100%
however, when Scotland Yard say that they do not consider thee McCanns as suspects, will you accept that?
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What remit of the cps? The met have a remit,its called operation grange, not the cps,the cps is brought in after evidence has been gathered,and after an investigation in a case, and before charges, what case do you think the cps has been brought into portugal for LOL, alongside the maddie team??? Jeez too many wide goalposts for me tonight see ya later when sense has returned, meanwhile im sure the cps is travelling all over the world cos they can
@)(++(*
I wonder if a certain dog-handler is looking over his shoulder?
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I wonder if a certain dog-handler is looking over his shoulder?
He impressed you as much as that !
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I agree with you 100%
however, when Scotland Yard say that they do not consider thee McCanns as suspects, will you accept that?
of course, IF and when they say it
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I wonder if a certain dog-handler is looking over his shoulder?
One must ask: would a person such as Mr Grime, whose professional livelihood depended on the 100% reliability of his dogs, proceed to suggest the past presence of a corpse at locations in the McCanns’ flat, and in their hired car, if Madeleine might still be alive somewhere?
She might have been found alive the next day
If so, Martin Grime’s professional credibility and his livelihood would have been ruined for ever.