Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: sadie on July 20, 2013, 11:02:12 PM
Title: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 20, 2013, 11:02:12 PM
A look at how the trees and lighting at apartment 5A have been altered since May 2007.
[With thanks to Bonny of J.A.T.Y.K.2 for originally sorting the images out]
Also showing just how hidden the front door had been.
Looking from the north-east, three photos of the same Jane Tanner / Apartment 5A corner
JT Corner looking in a SW direction. Corner and car park sides denuded of trees around 5A by May 2011.
The wall on this J.T. corner is really high. Well above Jane Tanners head.
Start at 11.00, observe from 11.30 the height of the front garden wall to 5A. Jane is tall and it towers above her head. The feet of anyone standing by the front door to 5A, would be roughly level with Jane Tanners head. Such is the difference in levels.
See 11.55 thru to past 12.30. Jane Tanner crying. Deeply upset with herself for not having realised that she witnessed Madeleine being taken and failed to stop bundleman.
Do you honestly believe that she did not see bundleman after witnessing the emotion there as she feels she let Madeleine down.?
Same corner prior to removal of trees. Photo presumably taken in 2007. These trees were healthily growing in June/July 2010 when I visited.... and very beautiful. The evening of May 3rd was very gusty (20mph). The branches and leaves would have been dancing, even thrashing at times.
The front door to 5A is behind the wall above the windscreen / roof-rack of the car
Same corner prior to removal of trees . They looked quite like this when I saw them.. These trees were healthily growing in June/July 2010 when I visited.... and very beautiful. The evening of May 3rd, 2007 was very gusty (20mph). The branches and leaves would have been dancing, even thrashing at times, so difficult to see thru any minor gaps. No body walking would try and peer thru into blackness; they would be looking towards light and the way they were going. There was no light illuminating the window in 2010. It was either switched off or broken.
Viewed from the north, across the road from 5A showing all the beautiful dense trees stretching along the wall that were cut down ready for Pat Browns photograph
Viewed from the SE. JT corner again. In 2009 the trees overhanging the pavement JT and everyone walked up. The wall underneath the trees is considerably higher than JT. The last window on the right is kitchen window. The kitchen adjoins the front door / hallway in 5A, which are on the other side of the kitchen, hidden behind the trees and wall.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 20, 2013, 11:03:50 PM
Part 2 Images with thanks to Bonny and J.A.T.Y.K.2 And Joana Morais
May 2007 beautiful trees lining the wall But NO search light ... and .... May 2011 trees were decimated and a whopping great vulgar search light fitted (note: The photographs show that there was no light here at the time of the abduction, in early May 2007
Finally Pat Browns photograph. A professional photograph; almost without doubt not by Pat Brown herself.
Such changes since May 3rd 2007. All the OC Block 5A trees removed and a mighty searchlight installed giving uninterrupted vision and illumination. Only now, with all the trees chopped down is the front door visible, even now poorly lit whereas before it was in almost total darkness. In 2010 when I visited, there were no lights lit. It was in darkness.
The very interesting thing really shows when you zoom in and magnify the photo x400. See the drive in? To the left of that all the trees have been chopped down. To the right of that they have been left untouched. They are still standing.
So the line of trees in front of the tapas apartments, were purposely cut down for Pat Browns photo? ... and the ones in front of the other half of the black left standing.
Amaral has insisted that the only way in, or out, is via that window.
Seems, this is an attempt to "prove" that with the window being "so overlooked" and "bathed in light", no abductor would dare to go in, or out, that way.?
Seems it is an attempt to falsely prove that the Mccanns set up a "pretend abduction" and that * Madeleine died in that apartment *?
All so that he can win his libel case against The Mccanns?
In my book that is what could be called "falsifying the evidence", or in other words CHEATING
Only a theory, but it fits, unless someone can see flaws in it
.
Why was the one half of OC denuded of trees? Why was a professional photo taken of a changed OC? Why did Amaral make so much of Pat Brown? Why did Tony Bennett make so much of her too?
Edited because someone saw a flaw in it ... in order to put it right.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 20, 2013, 11:38:15 PM
The images are freely available on the general internet, but they were grouped together on one forum especially, so it was a sensible way to more easiley assemble them for this thread. It is good manners to thank the person who originally assembled them, just as I also thanked Joana Morais.
I have quoted NO words from any forum; they are all my own..
So Blacksmiths words and images are Ok with you, are they Red? But you want to get rid of images just because I have acknowledged the person I took them from.
Are you trying to remove this thread then? Too close to the truth maybe?
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: Rachel Granada on July 21, 2013, 12:40:22 AM
Why is Brown being given the oxygen of publicity? She is a no-mark, a nothing. She has no relevant qualifications.
I must say that her PDL visit was comedy gold - it gave a lot of laughs to many people. The highlight was her meet with Bennett in bus shelter... Bennett's foul mauve jumper gave many people many laughs.
Brown made a complete fool of herself with her PDL visit.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 21, 2013, 12:43:25 AM
So what do you think, red, about the trees being cut down? A professional photograph being taken with a huge lamp illuminating the scene. A lamp that was only fitted after May4th 2007 (after the abduction) and wasn't switched on when I was there in 2010 Then Pat Brown coming over to great fanfare; big photo opportunity with Bennett and Amaral .. and much publicity.
To produce a professional photo showing how overlooked the tapas apartments are now that everything has changed?
Why do you think only half the block (the tapas half) was changed by removing the trees? leaving the other half as was?
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 21, 2013, 12:51:57 AM
How much did it cost to destroy those beautiful trees? Who paid for that and P. B's flight to come over? Then a professional photo, also expensive.
There has to be a reason for destroying those lovely trees and making block 5 lop sided; for spending a that money
Can you think of any?
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: Benice on July 21, 2013, 07:55:38 AM
Sadie, IMO Mark Warner had the trees removed, as a result of the UK police comments that 5A was virtually a would-be intruder's paradise - not only because it was next to 2 streets but because of all the shrubs and trees which were so close to it, both at the front and the rear of the property, and which kept much of it hidden from view. And also of course because of what happened to Madeleine.
I don't think Pat Brown had anything to do with it - but because of her abysmal lack of research she didn't know when she visited PdL that the view of 5A that she saw, bore no resemblance to how it was on the night Madeleine was abducted.
Her only achievement as a result of her visit to PdL was to make a complete fool of herself.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: Lyall on July 21, 2013, 08:13:30 AM
I can answer that for you I think. Because she's a professional writer. Simple as that.
It might have helped if Pat Brown had done a bit of research.
The photo that she posted to demonstrate how the window and door would have been in view from across the road does not correspond to the conditions in 2007.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: Carana on July 21, 2013, 11:08:04 AM
Interesting that the pic in Amaral's book shows the nice new spotlight projector...
Thank you Carana. Your photographs show very well how noticeable the open window must have been to anyone entering the car park, and with a lamp on in the living room and it's light coming through the bedroom because of the open door it must have been even more visible in the dark.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: Carana on July 21, 2013, 11:25:56 AM
Thank you Carana. Your photographs show very well how noticeable the open window must have been to anyone entering the car park, and with a lamp on in the living room and it's light coming through the bedroom because of the open door it must have been even more visible in the dark.
Erm... that projector casting light on the window area wasn't there in early May 2007.
I find that night shot and the caption in Amaral's book misleading.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 21, 2013, 11:31:15 AM
Sadie, IMO Mark Warner had the trees removed, as a result of the UK police comments that 5A was virtually a would-be intruder's paradise - not only because it was next to 2 streets but because of all the shrubs and trees which were so close to it, both at the front and the rear of the property, and which kept much of it hidden from view. And also of course because of what happened to Madeleine.
I don't think Pat Brown had anything to do with it - but because of her abysmal lack of research she didn't know when she visited PdL that the view of 5A that she saw, bore no resemblance to how it was on the night Madeleine was abducted.
Her only achievement as a result of her visit to PdL was to make a complete fool of herself.
You could be right Benice, but why only the eastern part of that block? And holiday companies, in my experience, are very aware of appearances. immediately looking after repairing any weaknesses in appearances.
Right or wrong, Benice, it doesn't alter the fact that Amaral jumped on the bandwagon and encouraged / ?arranged that professional photograph to be taken of a view that he knew to be the opposite of the NON view in 2007.
Did he arrange for Pat Brown to come over? Who paid the flights? Was she set up as a Patsy? So many questions
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: Benice on July 21, 2013, 12:01:10 PM
You could be right Benice, but why only the eastern part of that block? And holiday companies, in my experience, are very aware of appearances. immediately looking after repairing any weaknesses in appearances.
Right or wrong, Benice, it doesn't alter the fact that Amaral jumped on the bandwagon and encouraged / ?arranged that professional photograph to be taken of a view that he knew to be the opposite of the NON view in 2007.
Did he arrange for Pat Brown to come over? Who paid the flights? Was she set up as a Patsy? So many questions
Maybe it was merely a question of cost Sadie - who knows. In view of what had happened to Madeleine in 5A - I think the OC felt compelled to improve the security at that end of the apartment block in particular.
I do agree that Amaral would take full advantage of anything that would benefit himself - regardless of whether it was true or not - that fact is quite plain from his book.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 21, 2013, 12:16:02 PM
Maybe it was merely a question of cost Sadie - who knows. In view of what had happened to Madeleine in 5A - I think the OC felt compelled to improve the security at that end of the apartment block in particular.
I do agree that Amaral would take full advantage of anything that would benefit himself - regardless of whether it was true or not - that fact is quite plain from his book.
Took them a long time Benice.
I was there is mid 2010, over 3 years after Madeleines abduction, and at that time all the trees were there ... and looking very beautiful.
Anyone been there since to check things out?
Yep on the bottom line, Amaral took advantage of being able to propagate a lie. Is that legal? Altering the evidence effectively, via that photo and Brown, to cover his back?
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: John on July 21, 2013, 12:34:58 PM
Let's look at what we have here.
Ocean Club had the trees cut down adjacent to McCanns apartment, trees which obviously gave rise to some security concerns. It took them over three years to do so however.
Amaral used more recent photos of the view of the apartment as seen from the car park entrance in order to give a false impression as to what the scene was like on the night of the abduction. These photos depicted a floodlight night scene, something which didn't exist on 3rd May 2007.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: Redblossom on July 21, 2013, 01:14:26 PM
ETA, in fact the security light was installed at least by october 2007, it is clearly visible in the Despatches documentary aired on that date
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 21, 2013, 07:12:20 PM
Yes Indeedy! So cannot * have been installed ready for Pat Brown* who visited in 2012 @)(++(*
ETA, in fact the security light was installed at least by october 2007, it is clearly visible in the Dispatches documentary aired on that date
Well I was there in mid 2010 and there was no illumination from a light on that wall. It was really dark
ETA No light but it is possible that there was a lamp fitted that I didn't notice, I suppose. However the crux of the matter is that there was no lamp at the time of the abduction ... and Pat Brown with Amaral used a photograph, showing a huge search lamp lit, to produce a false situation. Effectively, imo, falsifying evidence.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: John on July 22, 2013, 11:31:01 AM
Clearly the spotlight was fitted in the months after the abduction occurred since it was in place by October 2007.
The trees however were cut down much later as they existed in 2010 but were gone by Pat Brown's visit in 2012.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 22, 2013, 12:18:40 PM
Clearly the spotlight was fitted in the months after the abduction occurred since it was in place by October 2007.
The trees however were cut down much later as they existed in 2010 but were gone by Pat Brown's visit in 2012.
No I will amend as necessary. Too much info there john to consider scrapping it, just one mistake. Please change the title if you wish.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: John on July 22, 2013, 01:42:16 PM
Readers who contributed to this topic should note that it has been edited to reflect the fact that the spotlight was fitted in the months after Madeleine's abduction. Thanks to Redblossom for clarifying this.
The thread title has also been altered.
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: Carana on July 22, 2013, 02:05:29 PM
Clearly the spotlight was fitted in the months after the abduction occurred since it was in place by October 2007.
The trees however were cut down much later as they existed in 2010 but were gone by Pat Brown's visit in 2012.
The bottom line for me is that many of the photos posted after the disappearance do not reflect the conditions at the time. Whether a projector was installed x days later or months later... doesn't alter the fact that it was not there at the time. Whether the trees were chopped down in 2010 or 2011 doesn't change the fact that they were there in early May 2007.
My point being that photos which an average person may assume to be contemporaneous with the disappearance are at best misleading and at worst not only libellous by innuendo, but more importantly potentially damaging to the search for a missing child.
When I first saw the night-time photo in Amaral's book, I wondered as well how the members of the group could have failed to notice an open window with curtains. It was only later that I realised that those conditions did not exist at the time and that someone going on a quick check would have no particular reason to peer at a window in the shadows (to one's left) as opposed to focusing on the main entrance (to one's right).
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on July 22, 2013, 02:49:50 PM
The bottom line for me is that many of the photos posted after the disappearance do not reflect the conditions at the time. Whether a projector was installed x days later or months later... doesn't alter the fact that it was not there at the time. Whether the trees were chopped down in 2010 or 2011 doesn't change the fact that they were there in early May 2007.
My point being that photos which an average person may assume to be contemporaneous with the disappearance are at best misleading and at worst not only libellous by innuendo, but more importantly potentially damaging to the search for a missing child.
When I first saw the night-time photo in Amaral's book, I wondered as well how the members of the group could have failed to notice an open window with curtains. It was only later that I realised that those conditions did not exist at the time and that someone going on a quick check would have no particular reason to peer at a window in the shadows (to one's left) as opposed to focusing on the main entrance (to one's right).
Me too. Never read Amarals book. Couldn't be bothered with it after reading early inaccuracies/ make believe,
But that Pat Brown photograph shook me to the core. Having been there, I instantly saw thru the lie. It was a blatent example of disinformation and propaganda being put about. And Amaral was her supporter ... maybe he set it up?
It mislead you. I wonder how many other people it mislead?
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: Carana on March 30, 2015, 07:27:31 PM
Me too. Never read Amarals book. Couldn't be bothered with it after reading early inaccuracies/ make believe,
But that Pat Brown photograph shook me to the core. Having been there, I instantly saw thru the lie. It was a blatent example of disinformation and propaganda being put about. And Amaral was her supporter ... maybe he set it up?
It mislead you. I wonder how many other people it mislead?
I'm more curious as to why a bone-fide chief detective published photos in a book concerning something as potentially crucial as lighting that simply didn't exist at the time....
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: ShiningInLuz on March 30, 2015, 11:35:30 PM
Trees as they were on 3rd May. Key point to note - the foliage of the trees is at the same level as the street lights, so although there are decent street lights the car park and front of 5A were considered to be dark.
I'm lost on references to photos of the front in Amaral's book. I ain't got no such photos, and the book comments are to what someone could have seen inside the car park. As it happens, the photo above shows that pedestrians and cars can see the block UNDER the foliage, as viewed from the street.
Anyone entering the car park was pretty much opposite 5B, just slightly off 5A. (And the photos in the thread marked 5A, 5B, 5D and 5H are wrong. There is no central access point to the block in the photo, though there is in reality.)
Title: Re: Trees cut down and floodlight fitted at apartment 5a after the abduction.
Post by: sadie on April 01, 2015, 01:47:57 AM
Trees as they were on 3rd May. Key point to note - the foliage of the trees is at the same level as the street lights, so although there are decent street lights the car park and front of 5A were considered to be dark.
I'm lost on references to photos of the front in Amaral's book. I ain't got no such photos, and the book comments are to what someone could have seen inside the car park. As it happens, the photo above shows that pedestrians and cars can see the block UNDER the foliage, as viewed from the street.
Anyone entering the car park was pretty much opposite 5B, just slightly off 5A. (And the photos in the thread marked 5A, 5B, 5D and 5H are wrong. There is no central access point to the block in the photo, though there is in reality.)
Yep they can be seen from there Shining. That is west of the car park entrance and is where none of the Tapas group walked. They had turned into the car park before then. The roadway slopes up and from the exterior the wall seems lower because of that. But anyway, thta part is irrelevant cos none of them passed it. For Ms Baptista to have seen a car outside the Mccann apartment she would have to have been looking backwards, or at least at an angle of 90^ before that time
On the corner the damned external wall is too high to see over. The corner has to be passed before seeing over [tall/ average height person]. This means before the window and door came into view over the top of the exterior wall the viewer had to be looking at least 90^ to his normal walking/driving line of vision. Progressively this angle got worse [more obtuse] the further he/she walked towards their apartments
But refering to this photo
http://i40.servimg.com/u/f40/12/00/06/04/projom10.jpg (http://i40.servimg.com/u/f40/12/00/06/04/projom10.jpg), my bet is that even a tall walker would have to be well around the corner and past the Ocean Club sign, before being able to see over the wall. Perhaps if you have the time Shining, you would be kind enough to check that situation please ?
To assist people that have not been there, looking at the above 'fisheye' photo, the position of the camera in the other image was almost at the RH extremity of the fisheye image, past the drive in and where the trees were not cut down.
Coming from the tapas Reception (to the left of the 'fisheye ' photo), the walker would never be able to see above the wall until around the corner That wall is really high, but lessens a little each stride because of the hillside the walker is climbing. The perspective confuses the image unfortuantely
I am not sure that i have described that well. Sorry
BTW, the deeply recessed doorway peeping above the LH wall is the front door recess for 5A
Can you imagine with this high wall and dense trees (especially dense on that corner) plus the lack of lighting, just how hidden that front door was.
I am pretty convinced the front door was used both for entry and exit.