UK Justice Forum 🇬🇧
Disappeared and Abducted Children and Young Adults => Madeleine McCann (3) disappeared from her parent's holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, Portugal on 3 May 2007. No trace of her has ever been found. => Topic started by: stephen25000 on August 01, 2013, 07:48:01 AM
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Well reading between the lines it would seem that the Portuguese are getting a bit peeved at being told what to do by SY and/or the UK government.
Those naughty 'sardine munchers'. 8**8:/:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/329872/Police-bust-up-sparks-fear-for-Madeleine-McCann-investigation
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No mention of abduction, just vanished. And twice referring to the case as a mystery. Case shelved as an unsolved mystery! Never read that before.
OK, so the PT authorities are not reopening the case, the UK authorities have no powers or jurisdiction in Portugal, but can act only if accompanied by prosecutors? or going by other press articles can only assist the Portuguese in enquiries. I suppose if they find credible new evidence it will be reopened? And now MWT and Tubbs a sky journalist have tweeted tense atmosphere? redwood says relationship is excellent, All very confusing.
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Of course the situation is difficult. The only reason SY has got involved is because the original investigation was poor. PJ must be really embarrassed that SY think they can do better. Redwood has to speak nicely so as not to upset the Portuguese. If the Portuguese refuse SY requests there will be a major diplomatic row.
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Of course the situation is difficult. The only reason SY has got involved is because the original investigation was poor. PJ must be really embarrassed that SY think they can do better. Redwood has to speak nicely so as not to upset the Portuguese. If the Portuguese refuse SY requests there will be a major diplomatic row.
@)(++(* @)(++(* So the Star becomes the holy bible, all of a sudden. Last week it was the pits!
Was this not noticed?
But the Portuguese Attorney-General’s office said yesterday: “There is currently no timetable for when and how we will proceed.
“The British authorities cannot carry out interviews or make inquiries in Portugual without being accompanied by public prosecutors.”
SY have never said they want to do anything without being accompanied by anyone else. Or did I miss it?
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@)(++(* @)(++(* So the Star becomes the holy bible, all of a sudden. Last week it was the pits!
Was this not noticed?
But the Portuguese Attorney-General’s office said yesterday: “There is currently no timetable for when and how we will proceed.
“The British authorities cannot carry out interviews or make inquiries in Portugual without being accompanied by public prosecutors.”
SY have never said they want to do anything without being accompanied by anyone else. Or did I miss it?
Well the 'star' is about reliable as any member of the UK press.
However, I'm sure the Portuguese Press could suggest a few places to stuff their Pilchards with. 8)--))
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What is the problem?
The SY and the PJ authorities seem to have found some solution to move on from the previous judicial impasse.
Isn't that good news?
For heaven's sake, this is about a real missing child - it's not a virtual buzkashi match.
It's about trying to determine what happened to her: whether she is alive or not and who may have taken her out of that apartment for whatever reason (unless she walked, wandered and disappeared from outside).
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That was quite stupid Sadie.
How many child abductions have taken place in the UK in the same period ?
Your fantasy ideas linking cases, which in some cases have already been solved beggars belief.
You ,plus other Mccannites, most of the press, SY, have ridiculed the Portuguese investigation, and do you really think they are going to rollover and do the UK's governments bidding ?
Well your more deluded than I thought.
Which cases have been solved, Stephen?
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What is the problem?
The SY and the PJ authorities seem to have found some solution to move on from the previous judicial impasse.
Isn't that good news?
For heaven's sake, this is about a real missing child - it's not a virtual buzkashi match.
It's about trying to determine what happened to her: whether she is alive or not and who may have taken her out of that apartment for whatever reason (xunless she walked, wandered and disappeared from outside).
The problem as you call it, wouldn't probably exist if the Portuguese people and police had not been denigrated so repeatedly in the UK press and those others criticizing them.
Perhaps a wholesale apology to Portugal might facilitate their help rather than repeated criticism.
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Of course the situation is difficult. The only reason SY has got involved is because the original investigation was poor. PJ must be really embarrassed that SY think they can do better. Redwood has to speak nicely so as not to upset the Portuguese. If the Portuguese refuse SY requests there will be a major diplomatic row.
8@??)( You bet there will be.
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What is the problem?
The SY and the PJ authorities seem to have found some solution to move on from the previous judicial impasse.
Isn't that good news?
For heaven's sake, this is about a real missing child - it's not a virtual buzkashi match.
It's about trying to determine what happened to her: whether she is alive or not and who may have taken her out of that apartment for whatever reason (unless she walked, wandered and disappeared from outside).
8@??)( 8@??)(
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The problem as you call it, wouldn't probably exist if the Portuguese people and police had not been denigrated so repeatedly in the UK press and those others criticizing them.
Perhaps a wholesale apology to Portugal might facilitate their help rather than repeated criticism.
Remember the Paulo Reis email, where he said, " there was no forensic's in the car, and it was just bait, and journalists, swallowed it.
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Portugal will do some serious damage to it's reputation as a democracy if they refuse. But then they aren't going to refuse, are they. They are just getting the legal aspect correctly in place, as they must.
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Portugal will do some serious damage to it's reputation as a democracy if they refuse. But then they aren't going to refuse, are they. They are just getting the legal aspect correctly in place, as they must.
8((()*/
Of course they won't refuse, Eleanor. How bad it would make them look, if they did?
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Mark Williams-Thomas' own theory on the abduction was rubbished quite some time ago so I wouldn't be surprised if there was some point scoring going on here. I will also point out that his involvement in the last Bamber documentary for ITV was amateurish and included the false claim that Sheila shot the family with a shotgun.
Scotland Yard will find it extremely difficult to muster any cooperation with the rank and file among the PJ and the GNR. They have long memories of what happened and indeed is happening to Señor Amaral.
I fear that as far as the ordinary copper on the ground in Portugal is concerned the Madeleine case is long dead!
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The problem as you call it, wouldn't probably exist if the Portuguese people and police had not been denigrated so repeatedly in the UK press and those others criticizing them.
Perhaps a wholesale apology to Portugal might facilitate their help rather than repeated criticism.
Xenophobic elements of the UK tabloid press did criticise the PT handling of the case.
There is also often fierce criticism of the UK police in the UK press. This often happens in established democracies.
Criticism from a foreign press may have led to a defensive attitude in Portugal... but how did all the "leaks ", many of which later appeared to be incorrect, appear in PT tabloids in a country in which there was judicial secrecy and a makeshift press officer?
Many of the UK tabloids relied on the PT tabloids for their "news". The Leveson inquiry is interesting in this respect.
How on earth Lizzy Spielberg keeps spouting press inventions as troooo facts is beyond me.
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Mark Williams-Thomas' own theory on the abduction was rubbished quite some time ago so I wouldn't be surprised if there was some point scoring going on here. I will also point out that his involvement in the last Bamber documentary for ITV was amateurish and included the false claim that Sheila shot the family with a shotgun.
Scotland Yard will find it extremely difficult to muster any cooperation with the rank and file among the PJ and the GNR. They have long memories of what happened and indeed is happening to Señor Amaral.
I fear that as far as the ordinary copper on the ground in Portugal is concerned the Madeleine case is long dead!
Do you believe that John. I don't, All who backed Amaral have gone, went pretty swiftly after him. They all thought so much of Amaral, not one turned up to say goodbye to him. What does that tell you?
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Remember the Paulo Reis email, where he said, " there was no forensic's in the car, and it was just bait, and journalists, swallowed it.
Sandra F apparently said something similar on a chat show, although someone who was usually quick to translate never found time to translate that one.
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Do you believe that John. I don't, All who backed Amaral have gone, went pretty swiftly after him. They all thought so much of Amaral, not one turned up to say goodbye to him. What does that tell you?
It tells me his real pals were already in the pub waiting for him.
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8((()*/
Of course they won't refuse, Eleanor. How bad it would make them look, if they did?
It is a bit complex, DCI because they can't be absolutely sure of the nationality or country of residence of the persons who might have been involved. If they get the legal aspect wrong this could result in an aborted Trial. I thought everybody knew that by now.
Not under any circumstances will Portugal refuse. The team in Portugal who are now in charge are just about the best that Portugal has got. And they do have some good ones.
I now have high hopes that at the very least they will find out how Madeleine was abducted. Where she was taken might be a bit more difficult. But I shall go on hoping that they find her.
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The ordinary coppers aren't important anymore. The new Portuguese team have all of The Files just as Scotland Yard do.
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It tells me his real pals were already in the pub waiting for him.
@)(++(*
No they weren't John
His wife put it in writing in a complaining letter that his colleagues ignored him when he left.
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The ordinary coppers aren't important anymore. The new Portuguese team have all of The Files just as Scotland Yard do.
You've just reminded me Eleanor, wasn't there a PT review team under a lady called Helena Monteiro set up a couple of years ago? I wonder if that PT team is still going?
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It tells me his real pals were already in the pub waiting for him.
Ashamed to be seen with him, were they?
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You've just reminded me Eleanor, wasn't there a PT review team under a lady called Helena Monteiro set up a couple of years ago? I wonder if that PT team is still going?
Yes there was such a team under Helen Monteiro, and almost certainly the same team now. Portugal would hardly have wasted her time if they were going to ignore what she was doing.
And she most certainly won't have been trying to prove what a great PJ Detective Goncalo Amaral was.
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Yes there was such a team under Helen Monteiro, and almost certainly the same team now. Portugal would hardly have wasted her time if they were going to ignore what she was doing.
And she most certainly won't have been trying to prove what a great PJ Detective Goncalo Amaral was.
Thanks, Eleanor - I just suddenly remembered about Ms Monteiro and the PT team. As for Amaral, I seem to remember hin saying that "the affair wasn't going well for the McCanns", not sure whether he was referring to the review by Ms Monteiro and Co, or the SY review.
Looks like he got that wrong as well! @)(++(*
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Some wonder why the Portuguese are not conducive with dealing with the UK government or SY.
All you have to do is read comments by some posters on this thread.
8()-000(
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Thanks, Eleanor - I just suddenly remembered about Ms Monteiro and the PT team. As for Amaral, I seem to remember hin saying that "the affair wasn't going well for the McCanns", not sure whether he was referring to the review by Ms Monteiro and Co, or the SY review.
Looks like he got that wrong as well! @)(++(*
That must have been some time ago, when Amaral said that. And how would he know anyway? No Portuguese Investigation Team will have told him anything, not with his history of leaking lies.
And of course, he more than proved that point by leaking more lies.
The Team told him, did they? Sorry, I don't believe him.
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That must have been some time ago, when Amaral said that. And how would he know anyway? No Portuguese Investigation Team will have told him anything, not with his history of leaking lies.
And of course, he more than proved that point by leaking more lies.
The Team told him, did they? Sorry, I don't believe him.
I seem to remember that I read it a couple of years ago possibly on the Morais blog. I will see if I can come up with a link.
What you said about "how would he know" is a good point, I very much doubt that Ms Monteiro and the team would have told Amaral anything.
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I seem to remember that I read it a couple of years ago possibly on the Morais blog. I will see if I can come up with a link.
What you said about "how would he know" is a good point, I very much doubt that Ms Monteiro and the team would have told Amaral anything.
I read it as well, so Amaral was certainly reported to have said it. And of course, his supporters did believe it.
Sadly, many people have got the impression that all of The PJ is at least stupid, if not actually corrupt, when it was very likely only a small pocket, most of whom appear to have been associated with Goncalo Amaral on The Algarve. And some of whom have since moved elsewhere, or left The PJ altogether.
There is no doubt in my mind that there was something very sick going on on The Algarve.
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I read it as well, so Amaral was certainly reported to have said it. And of course, his supporters did believe it.
Sadly, many people have got the impression that all of The PJ is at least stupid, if not actually corrupt, when it was very likely only a small pocket, most of whom appear to have been associated with Goncalo Amaral on The Algarve. And some of whom have since moved elsewhere, or left The PJ altogether.
There is no doubt in my mind that there was something very sick going on on The Algarve.
I have every confidence that the rank and file PJ officers were decent, hardworking people who did their very best. It's just a shame that the head honchos were corrupt liars.
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I have every confidence that the rank and file PJ officers were decent, hardworking people who did their very best. It's just a shame that the head honchos were corrupt liars.
I agree. And it was an even bigger shame for Madeleine imo. What chance did she stand with two criminals in charge of her case - one a liar and the other a torturer. Sheez!
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I have every confidence that the rank and file PJ officers were decent, hardworking people who did their very best. It's just a shame that the head honchos were corrupt liars.
But the damage those few did is incalculable, and not just to Madeleine. They have brought the whole of Portugal into disrepute. And eventually, many more cases are going to have to be looked into.
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I agree. And it was an even bigger shame for Madeleine imo. What chance did she stand with two criminals in charge of her case - one a liar and the other a torturer. Sheez!
I just feel like crying when I think about it. A lot of very dedicated and hardworking officers let down, and Madeleine and family, let down by the rotten apples at the top.
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This thread is about scotland yard,and its position in PT as an investigative force or other, not an i hate amaral one, feel free to start one though instead of infestating this one
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But the damage those few did is incalculable, and not just to Madeleine. They have brought the whole of Portugal into disrepute. And eventually, many more cases are going to have to be looked into.
Where do we start Eleanor. Such a shame for the hardworking rank and file who did their best. Let down and spoiled by a few rotten apples at the top.
I think about the Jacinta Rees case and I want to cry how must Jacinta's family feel. And that is only the start.
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This thread is about scotland yard,and its position in PT as an investigative force or other, not an i hate amaral one, feel free to start one though instead of infestating this one
Unfortunately Redblossom, they can't get beyond their obvious hatred of Amaral, for daring to suggest the Mccanns covered up what really happened to Madeleine.
The fact that the PJ en masse thought the same thing as do many other people seems beyond their comprehension.
The Portuguese people have been ridiculed and subjected to loathsome xenophobia which has rarely been equaled.
Imagine how the British would respond if the situation was reversed ?
Also, why should the Portuguese people still continue to pay out for the Mccanns negligence of their children, when they have singularly paid nothing themselves, and likewise, why the UK taxpayer continue to pay for this pair ?
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Where do we start Eleanor. Such a shame for the hardworking rank and file who did their best. Let down and spoiled by a few rotten apples at the top.
I think about the Jacinta Rees case and I want to cry how must Jacinta's family feel. And that is only the start.
I don't know where they could start, Rachel. But let's not get too keen on just blaming Amaral and Co. Are we supposed to believe that the rest of The PJ didn't know what was going on? Are we supposed to believe that they were all fine and dandy with The Cipriano Case when there were six arguidos from The PJ involved in her torture? Of course they knew.
For God's sake. even passing Portuguese poster knew.
So I wouldn't be at all surprised if Scotland Yard are wary. Not Rosy? I shouldn't think so.
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Unfortunately Redblossom, they can't get beyond their obvious hatred of Amaral, for daring to suggest the Mccanns covered up what really happened to Madeleine.
The fact that the PJ en masse thought the same thing as do many other people seems beyond their comprehension.
The Portuguese people have been ridiculed and subjected to loathsome xenophobia which has rarely been equaled.
Imagine how the British would respond if the situation was reversed ?
Also, why should the Portuguese people still continue to pay out for the Mccanns negligence of their children, when they have singularly paid nothing themselves, and likewise, why the UK taxpayer continue to pay for this pair ?
I know, its pathetic and peurile at best. Re the cost, mind you, IF SY achieve a result it will have been worth the money, will they? Time will tell. mind you pj must be laughing at *hundreds of leads*
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I seem to remember that I read it a couple of years ago possibly on the Morais blog. I will see if I can come up with a link.
What you said about "how would he know" is a good point, I very much doubt that Ms Monteiro and the team would have told Amaral anything.
Here you go, Rachel.
"I suspect that my books were destroyed" O Crime (paper edition, pages 12 & 13)
Interview by Carlos Saraiva [Director of "O Crime"]
Thursday, March 1, 2012
With thanks to Joana Morais for translation
- Extract -
As you well know, the Prime Minister David Cameron, has ordered a re-evaluation of the investigation in England regarding Maddie's disappearance. How do you assess that decision, admitting that the English will hardly have access to the investigation in Portugal?
The decision of that Prime Minister has been twisted. The McCann couple has spoken of a re-examination of the child's "sightings". When, in fact, what is known is that Scotland Yard, who were appointed to re-evaluate the whole investigation, has set aside the pseudo-sightings, focusing instead on the investigation process that remains archived. Elements from Scotland Yard have been working with an investigative [Judiciary Police] team from Oporto (Oporto because Algarve and Lisbon has already been involved), and what is known is that the "affair" is not going well for the McCanns.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id409.html
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So Amaral believed that his remaining books had been destroyed. Well, we all know that he got that one wrong.
And we all know that the "Affair" is going well for The McCanns.
How much else can he get wrong?
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I don't know where they could start, Rachel. But let's not get too keen on just blaming Amaral and Co. Are we supposed to believe that the rest of The PJ didn't know what was going on? Are we supposed to believe that they were all fine and dandy with The Cipriano Case when there were six arguidos from The PJ involved in her torture? Of course they knew.
For God's sake. even passing Portuguese poster knew.
So I wouldn't be at all surprised if Scotland Yard are wary. Not Rosy? I shouldn't think so.
Thanks Eleanor, some food for thought in your post.
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Thanks Eleanor, some food for thought in your post.
Past its sell by date so best not eat it lol
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Past its sell by date so best not eat it lol
Pfft.
PS. I hope that isn't misconstrued as inappropriate language.
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http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/418929/Madeleine-McCann-inquiry-wins-backing-from-Portugal
Madeleine McCann inquiry wins backing from Portugal
SCOTLAND Yard detectives searching for Madeleine McCann are set to fly to Portugal as its law chief yesterday confirmed receipt of Britain’s request to follow up fresh leads.
(http://images.dailyexpress.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/madelein-mccann-portugal--418929.jpg)
Kate and Gerry McCann continue to hope that their daughter is still alive
The exchange of letters between London and Lisbon means the Portuguese end of the Yard’s new inquiry is now on an official footing.
Detectives from Operation Grange are expected in the Algarve in the next few weeks.
But sources stressed the British police officers can do nothing in Portugal without being accompanied by public prosecutors.
Portugal’s Attorney General’s office confirmed receipt of a letter from Home Secretary Theresa May.
A spokesman said: “A request for judicial assistance has been received from the British authorities.
“There is currently no timetable for when and how we will proceed.”
Yesterday’s confirmation by the Portuguese is another significant step in the two-year operation which has cost £5million so far.
Last month detectives announced a new investigation after a review identified 38 potential suspects.
The “persons of interest” come from five countries and include 12 Britons.
Madeleine was three when she went missing from the McCann family apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz in May 2007.
Her parents Kate and Gerry have never given up hope that their daughter is still alive.
The couple, both doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire, welcomed the new Yard inquiry and described it as a “big step forward”.
Scotland Yard says there is no firm evidence that Madeleine is dead.
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood said both the British and Portuguese “remain completely committed” to solving the mystery.
Operation Grange was set up to review available evidence in 2011 after the McCanns appealed to Prime Minister David Cameron and Mrs May.
As part of the review, Yard detectives travelled to Portugal 16 times to discuss evidence gathered so far and any possible new leads.
The Home Office says it “remains committed” to providing detectives with the resources they need. Last week Gerry McCann said: “You’re not going to accept that your child’s dead unless there’s conclusive proof.”
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So Amaral believed that his remaining books had been destroyed. Well, we all know that he got that one wrong.
And we all know that the "Affair" is going well for The McCanns.
How much else can he get wrong?
Just about eve 8()(((@#rything. Why oh why oh why was he ever allowed within a million miles of another missing child case.
Sorry to rant!
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Here you go, Rachel.
"I suspect that my books were destroyed" O Crime (paper edition, pages 12 & 13)
Interview by Carlos Saraiva [Director of "O Crime"]
Thursday, March 1, 2012
With thanks to Joana Morais for translation
- Extract -
As you well know, the Prime Minister David Cameron, has ordered a re-evaluation of the investigation in England regarding Maddie's disappearance. How do you assess that decision, admitting that the English will hardly have access to the investigation in Portugal?
The decision of that Prime Minister has been twisted. The McCann couple has spoken of a re-examination of the child's "sightings". When, in fact, what is known is that Scotland Yard, who were appointed to re-evaluate the whole investigation, has set aside the pseudo-sightings, focusing instead on the investigation process that remains archived. Elements from Scotland Yard have been working with an investigative [Judiciary Police] team from Oporto (Oporto because Algarve and Lisbon has already been involved), and what is known is that the "affair" is not going well for the McCanns.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id409.html
Cheers, DCI - I was just going to search for the link you saved me a job! 8((()*/
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Just about eve 8()(((@#rything. Why oh why oh why was he ever allowed within a million miles of another missing child case.
Sorry to rant!
That would be the first question that anyone would need to ask. What sort of Police Force is this?
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That would be the first question that anyone would need to ask. What sort of Police Force is this?
A very good question, Eleanor. Could someone correct me if I'm wrong, but were the PJ Staff who were convicted of beating the young German student recently allowed to keep their jobs? I may have got that wrong and am happy to be corrected.
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Fascinating.
The hatred of Amaral is continuing to reach a higher level, with the clearly irrational obsessive posts on this thread.
If the Mccans have nothing to fear from him, why this bitter hatred and bile from their followers ?
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Fascinating.
The hatred of Amaral is continuing to reach a higher level, with the clearly irrational obsessive posts on this thread.
If the Mccans have nothing to fear from him, why this bitter hatred and bile from their followers ?
Just facts being posted, Stephen. That's all.
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A very good question, Eleanor. Could someone correct me if I'm wrong, but were the PJ Staff who were convicted of beating the young German student recently allowed to keep their jobs? I may have got that wrong and am happy to be corrected.
I believe so. Very odd. But they are expected to pay a large amount in compensation. So the lesser of two evils perhaps.
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Just facts being posted, Stephen. That's all.
And those *facts* are rubbish from *[ censored word ] obsessives*
Fact
8**8:/:
mr Amaral left the force ages before the case was shelved
he must really RILE you for some reason, oops
Cee ya
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And those *facts* are rubbish from *[ censored word ] obsessives*
Fact
8**8:/:
mr Amaral left the force ages before the case was shelved
he must really RILE you for some reason, oops
Cee ya
Doesn't rile me at all, Just looking forward to a dirty cop getting his comeuppance at the libel trial (if he doesn't try to delay yet again).
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...why the UK taxpayer continue to pay for this pair ?
Were you supportive of Bennett's initiatve for a full public inquiry or not?
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Were you supportive of Bennett's initiatve for a full public inquiry or not?
No I do not support Bennett.
The crime occurred outside UK,therefore what inquiry could take place ?
Now to my question, why should the UK taxpayer pay for the McCann's incompetence ?
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The British taxpayers are paying for an investigation into what happened to a British child who has been missing for six years - nothing less than her moral and legal right.
Nothing to do with your alleged "McCann's incompetence."
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Madeleine McCann inquiry wins backing from Portugal
I reckon the Portuguese are gentlemen, they could have postponed the UK rogatory mission as the HO had delayed the Portuguese one for 5 (!) months, which seems extraordinary in a missing UK citizen case.
This is even more remarkable, for an external observer, because Portugal was soiled by the UK as no country has ever been soiled by another one with no publicly protesting voice, countries ironically tied by the oldest diplomatic alliance in the world.
Actually I should have written "is soiled", because there's proof of it everyday on this forum.
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The British taxpayers are paying for an investigation into what happened to a British child who has been missing for six years - nothing less than her moral and legal right.
Nothing to do with your alleged "McCann's incompetence."
By that logic, taxpayers money should be paid to investiagte all missing children or people.
Don't you agree ?
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And those *facts* are rubbish from *[ censored word ] obsessives*
Fact
8**8:/:
mr Amaral left the force ages before the case was shelved
he must really RILE you for some reason, oops
Cee ya
Really? He "retired" on 30 June 2008. Case shelved 21 July 2008.
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Really? He "retired" on 30 June 2008. Case shelved 21 July 2008.
When was he removed from the case ?
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When was he removed from the case ?
October 2007, as you very well know. 8-)(--)
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The retirement was linked to the shelving. He had to retire AND wait for the shelving before he could publish his rotten book.
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So the retirement was linked to the shelving ?
Claptrap.
You will have to do a lot better than that.
Disappointment 8-)(--) 8-)(--)
Oh dear. Perhaps you may find the following passage sheds a little light on the subject (and from a source you may find to your liking).
__________________
Date 30 June 2008
The former coordinator at the Polícia Judiciária for the “Madeleine McCann” case, inspector Gonçalo Amaral, told Lusa today that he is retiring from the PJ mainly to attain “plenitude of freedom of expression” and to consequently be able to defend himself.
Gonçalo Amaral, aged 48, started working as a civil servant at the age of 14, and today lives his last day at the service of the Polícia Judiciária, after recently having been the most exposed PJ inspector in the Portuguese and British media, for having coordinated the case of “Madeleine McCann”, the little English girl that disappeared in the Algarve on the 3rd of May of 2007.
In an interview to Lusa, Gonçalo Amaral explained that he is retiring at the age of 48 in order to “have plenitude of freedom of expression”.
“Why do I leave? I leave because I understand that the only way to acquire the plenitude of my freedom of expression is to leave the police. Because at this moment, to defend myself, I have to reacquire my freedom of expression”, he said.
The exercise of that freedom of expression starts this month, with the publication of a book about the Maddie case, in case – as it is foreseen – the judicial secrecy on the process is lifted.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/06/algarve-gonalo-amaral-leaves-pj-in.html#comment-form
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Oh dear. Perhaps you may find the following passage sheds a little light on the subject (and from a source you may find to your liking).
__________________
Date 30 June 2008
The former coordinator at the Polícia Judiciária for the “Madeleine McCann” case, inspector Gonçalo Amaral, told Lusa today that he is retiring from the PJ mainly to attain “plenitude of freedom of expression” and to consequently be able to defend himself.
Gonçalo Amaral, aged 48, started working as a civil servant at the age of 14, and today lives his last day at the service of the Polícia Judiciária, after recently having been the most exposed PJ inspector in the Portuguese and British media, for having coordinated the case of “Madeleine McCann”, the little English girl that disappeared in the Algarve on the 3rd of May of 2007.
In an interview to Lusa, Gonçalo Amaral explained that he is retiring at the age of 48 in order to “have plenitude of freedom of expression”.
“Why do I leave? I leave because I understand that the only way to acquire the plenitude of my freedom of expression is to leave the police. Because at this moment, to defend myself, I have to reacquire my freedom of expression”, he said.
The exercise of that freedom of expression starts this month, with the publication of a book about the Maddie case, in case – as it is foreseen – the judicial secrecy on the process is lifted.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/06/algarve-gonalo-amaral-leaves-pj-in.html#comment-form
OK.
Now I see, but is this of importance in the context of cooperation between the PJ and SY ?
Bearing in mind the distrust the Portuguese feel towards this country in this case is well founded.
Also, SY or some posters here doesn't need to give the PJ any lectures on competency bearing in mind the history of SY in this regard.
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By that logic, taxpayers money should be paid to investiagte all missing children or people.
Don't you agree ?
Yes.
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Stephen.
An oblique answer your questions.
My personal view is that if a "turf war" between SY and the PJ are standing in the way of either finding Madeleine alive or finding out what happened to her and who was responsible, then all concerned should hang their heads in shame.
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Stephen.
An oblique answer your questions.
My personal view is that if a "turf war" between SY and the PJ are standing in the way of either finding Madeleine alive or finding out what happened to her and who was responsible, then all concerned should hang their heads in shame.
I absolutely agree with that sentiment.
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Yes.
OK.
Now so far according to reports it has cost the tax payer approx £5 million.
Let's assume the following article is correct.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-missing-each-year-275000-britons-disappear-1801010.html
So some simple maths.
£275,000 x £5,000,000 = £1,375,000,000,000
Never going to happen
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I absolutely agree with that sentiment.
Good heavens! 8)--))
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Stephen.
An oblique answer your questions.
My personal view is that if a "turf war" between SY and the PJ are standing in the way of either finding Madeleine alive or finding out what happened to her and who was responsible, then all concerned should hang their heads in shame.
I agree.
A lot of the problems in terms of abuse that has resulted in this impasse has come form the UK press and quite possibly the damage done to relations is presently beyond repair.
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and you are ?
Chinagirl is a much respected poster and of much higher professional status than most people of your profession.
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David Cameron is in Portugal atm
http://www.talktalk.co.uk/news/uk/article/most-mps-going-abroad-for-holidays/97049/
Holiday or .....?
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Chinagirl is a much respected poster and of much higher professional status than most people of your profession.
How do you what her 'qualifications' are ?
What relevance do they have to this case ?
Anyone can say anything on the net, doesn't mean it's true or do you place some people on a pedestal above others, as you do the Mccanns ?
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How do you what her 'qualifications' are ?
I know because it was on public record
What relevance do they have to this case ?
Only replying to your post #83 which was " And you are? " referring to China girl
Anyone can say anything on the net, doesn't mean it's true or do you place some people on a pedestal above others, as you do the Mccanns ?
No I was only replying in kind to your agressive response to Chinagirl ... and telling you the truth. She has been a long time poster and has shown an indepth perception that few have. She doesn't rely on myths.
And, it is a fact, that she does carry a status professionally much higher than most (in the Education field). Does that worry you?
[/quote]
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I know because it was on public record
Only replying to your post #83 which was " And you are? " referring to China girl
No I was only replying in kind to your agressive response to Chinagirl ... and telling you the truth. She has been a long time poster and has shown an indepth perception that few have. She doesn't rely on myths.
And, it is a fact, that she does carry a status professionally much higher than most (in the Education field). Does that worry you?
Not in the slightest, but it does seem to bother to you.
Her perception as you call it, as it is your, the Mccanns have done nothing wrong.
As to the myths from those whom you call allies, and your 'stories'. Well if others want to reach words of fiction, so be it.
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Not in the slightest, but it does seem to bother to you.
Her perception as you call it, as it is your, the Mccanns have done nothing wrong.
As to the myths from those whom you call allies, and your 'stories'. Well if others want to reach words of fiction, so be it.
Stephen, whenever I post one of my theories, I always present it as such. I am always open to constructive criticisms, but I do not expect the petty sniping and put downs to deliberately undermine and destroy ideas that might be correct
I have moved way beyond the PdL scenario now on to further interesting places and peeps, but I still enjoy trying to analyse things and trying to hypothesize at the PdL end of ther abduction.
Of course I dont get everything right. I willingly acknowledge that. But it can only do good for peeps to see my theories and contribute constructively. By which I mean that I can accept constructive criticism. If it seems correct, then I alter my ideas accordingly.
You will notice that i did that in sadies theory, Because of some person, was it you?, pointing out something that I had missed, I changed the side of the road that Gerry and Jez were talking on.
And it improved my theory
Cheers
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Stephen, whenever I post one of my theories, I always present it as such. I am always open to constructive criticisms, but I do not expect the petty sniping and put downs to deliberately undermine and destroy ideas that might be correct
I have moved way beyond the PdL scenario now on to further interesting places and peeps, but I still enjoy trying to analyse things and trying to hypothesize at the PdL end of ther abduction.
Of course I dont get everything right. I willingly acknowledge that. But it can only do good for peeps to see my theories and contribute constructively. By which I mean that I can accept constructive criticism. If it seems correct, then I alter my ideas accordingly.
You will notice that i did that in sadies theory, Because of some person, was it you?, pointing out something that I had missed, I changed the side of the road that Gerry and Jez were talking on.
And it improved my theory
Cheers
Merely because you post a picture does not mean it was the picture of the object under discussion.
Surely , you must know that.
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Stephen, whenever I post one of my theories, I always present it as such. I am always open to constructive criticisms, but I do not expect the petty sniping and put downs to deliberately undermine and destroy ideas that might be correct
I have moved way beyond the PdL scenario now on to further interesting places and peeps, but I still enjoy trying to analyse things and trying to hypothesize at the PdL end of ther abduction.
Of course I dont get everything right. I willingly acknowledge that. But it can only do good for peeps to see my theories and contribute constructively. By which I mean that I can accept constructive criticism. If it seems correct, then I alter my ideas accordingly.
You will notice that i did that in sadies theory, Because of some person, was it you?, pointing out something that I had missed, I changed the side of the road that Gerry and Jez were talking on.
And it improved my theory
Cheers
Don't apologise, Sadie. You have done so much more than most.
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That was on a different thread Stephen, but IIRC it was part of the Official files.
Right, lets get back to the topic this thread is about
* Re: Not so Rosy a relationship between the PJ and SY after all? *
What do you think that Cameron might be holidaying in PT for? Will it extend beyond holiday?
Oh thanks Eleanor. Have tried but slowed down a lot now. Am tired of abuse.
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That was on a different thread Stephen, but IIRC it was part of the Official files.
Right, lets get back to the topic this thread is about
* Re: Not so Rosy a relationship between the PJ and SY after all? *
What do you think that Cameron might be holidaying in PT for? Will it extend beyond holiday?
Oh thanks Eleanor. Have tried but slowed down a lot now. Am tired of abuse.
Aren't we all tired of abuse, Sadie. It is almost impossible to comment without receiving some such snide remark, and only makes me wonder for why it is necessary.
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Aren't we all tired of abuse, Sadie. It is almost impossible to comment without receiving some such snide remark, and only makes me wonder for why it is necessary.
Yea, I had noticed you get more than your fair share too.
Abuse comes when they haven't an answer. Covers up their inability to answer. IMO
Pat yourself on the back if a sudden tirade of abuse hits you. You know you have scored a good point.
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Yea, I had noticed you get more than your fair share too.
Abuse comes when they haven't an answer. Covers up their inability to answer. IMO
Pat yourself on the back if a sudden tirade of abuse hits you. You know you have scored a good point.
Actually, I would rather not, Sadie. I have only ever wanted to comment in peace. But do you really think that I upset them? It was never my intention.
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Actually, I would rather not, Sadie. I have only ever wanted to comment in peace. But do you really think that I upset them? It was never my intention.
Some of them, you dont have to upset Eleanor. Just be persistent or say something thay cant answer and the abuse starts. You have scored a point.
Please put up with the abuse. We need your special arguments; you come in from a different angle very often. Keep going ... but I know exactly what you mean
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My advice is not to respond to any posts which are abusive and simply report them as they will be deleted in any event. TY
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Thanks John.
We all know that is sound advice, but it is not easy when constant abuse is aimed at you ... and lies there, often for hours. Mud sticks you know
Anyway, lets get back to the thread
Any thoughts on Camerons "holiday" in Portugal? A diplomatic excercise? ... or just a lovely holiday in a beautiful country?
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Oops, seems MWT and Tubbs had heard something after all
Coming British causes bad feeling in the Judicial Police Jornal de Notícias (paper edition)
Courtesy of
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html
Coming British causes bad feeling in the Judicial Police Jornal de Notícias (paper edition)
Attorney General's Office has given the OK to Scotland Yard to investigate
Marisa Rodrigues
Published 01 August 2013
IT IS CAUSING BAD FEELING within the Judicial Police (PJ) - the coming to Portugal of British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, in 2007, from the Algarve. The Attorney General's Office (PGR) has accepted the request for assistance, but the timetable for the Scotland Yard officers has not yet been scheduled. For now, the investigation continues to be archived, since 2008, because "there are no grounds to reopen it," said the PGR, to JN yesterday.
Once on Portuguese territory, the British police cannot carry out the measures they deem necessary. They are only allowed to observe what the Portuguese police do, at their request. And it is precisely this question that is leaving investigators angry. "They want to hear people who have already been heard at the inquiry stage and repeat other steps which were taken by us and were inconclusive. They are passing us a certificate of incompetence," complained an inspector who participated in the investigation, to JN. Another policeman recalls the "barriers" that were placed when the PJ requested assistance in the initial investigation. "The letter of request to conduct investigations in England had to be changed several times by imposition of the British authorities. We collaborate, but the opposite is not always there," he says. The public prosecutor will now have to assign the execution of the inquiries to a criminal police body. Most likely it's the PJ but, from what JN has found, nothing has yet been reported to the National Office [of the PJ].
PORTUGUESE PAY
38 "persons of interest"
Have been identified by Scotland Yard after reviewing the Portuguese case files, by more than 30 specialized English policemen at a cost of more than five million euros.
Expensive investigation
All inquiries requested by the British authorities to the national authorities will be paid for with Portuguese taxpayers' money. The Maddie case is the most expensive ever in Portugal.
"Base in Portugal"
According to the British press, the letter with the formal request for cooperation was signed by the Home Secretary, Theresa May, who spoke of "setting up a base" in Portugal.
----
This just smacks of no real new evidence found and just going over old ground
Amazing
And it is understandable that that some might think well, the Uk authorities obstructed the investigation in 2007 in various ways, now they want assistance? From the people they fobbed off?
Makes some of what JB said here seem spot on
http://aninspectorcallsyou.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/two-way-communication.html
lets hope they do work together to put an end to this farce once and for all
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Who exactly are these unnamed investigators?
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Who exactly are these unnamed investigators?
Why are you asking any of us? No one here knows, do they? Bit like asking who is this * family friend or source close to the investigation* on hundreds of uk articles
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Why are you asking any of us? No one here knows, do they? Bit like asking who is this * family friend or source close to the investigation* on hundreds of uk articles
I'm just asking a question, Red.
Are these Investigators" part of the current team working with the Met? Or are they those who were taken off the case - if so, they may have a wounded pride an axe to grind that is not related to the present officers involved in this effort of mutual assistance.
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I'm just asking a question, Red.
Are these Investigators" part of the current team working with the Met? Or are they those who were taken off the case - if so, they may have a wounded pride an axe to grind that is not related to the present officers involved in this effort of mutual assistance.
I think the clue liea in the sentence, it has left investigators angry
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Another policeman recalls the "barriers" that were placed when the PJ requested assistance in the initial investigation. "The letter of request to conduct investigations in England had to be changed several times by imposition of the British authorities. [/i
When where the letters of request initially sent?
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I think the clue liea in the sentence, it has left investigators angry
I think the clue lies in the fact that they haven't been named...
The "investigators" may not be the current cooperation team at all.
If they are Amaral, Paiva and co., they may be taking it personally.
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I think the clue lies in the fact that they haven't been named...
The "investigators" may not be the current cooperation team at all.
If they are Amaral, Paiva and co., they may be taking it personally.
Only in your mind though isnt it?
Until we hear about* current investigators* thats all it can be
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My advice is not to respond to any posts which are abusive and simply report them as they will be deleted in any event. TY
Not really my forte to report personal abuse aimed at me, John. And I do try not to respond. But sometimes it gets a bit much, so I retaliate. Sorry about that.
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Not really my forte to report personal abuse aimed at me, John. And I do try not to respond. But sometimes it gets a bit much, so I retaliate. Sorry about that.
Not my style either Eleanor, until it wound up to such a pitch that it couldn't be ignored. Then I started reporting and reciprocating .... but I took a hell of a lot of awful abuse before I eventaulally joined them.
It has been so bad that as you know, it has partially been documented on another forum
Anyway, despite tbhe fact that I do not like it, I now wear my abuse with pride, cos i know to have been awarded it, I must have scored a goal.
You too.
Well enough about that.
==========
Reds post is interesting. Will PT PJ co-operate or not? Is Cameron out there to speak to influential peeps about it ... and hopefully move the case forward, or not?
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8((()*/
Of course they won't refuse, Eleanor. How bad it would make them look, if they did?
Do you really think after the way the Portuguese have been treated by the British press they will give a fig what anyone thinks of their decision ?
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Only in your mind though isnt it?
Until we hear about* current investigators* thats all it can be
My question concerns who these unnamed "investigators" might be.
I don't see how they could be current ones as the letter of assistance has only just been received, so I don't see what current PT investigation is yet underway.
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Another policeman recalls the "barriers" that were placed when the PJ requested assistance in the initial investigation. "The letter of request to conduct investigations in England had to be changed several times by imposition of the British authorities. [/i
When where the letters of request initially sent?
I can't remember when they were initially sent, but they were legally incorrect. This is not acceptable because it can lead to an acquittal on a technicality if any trial were to ensue.
Mr Smith was not reinterviewed because the Portuguese application to do so was sent to London. Mr. Smith is not a British Subject and cannot be forced to comply under British Law. Portugal did not reapply to question Mr. Smith in the correct form.
Britain did not at any time refuse or deliberately block the questioning of any British Subject.
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My question concerns who these unnamed "investigators" might be.
I don't see how they could be current ones as the letter of assistance has only just been received, so I don't see what current PT investigation is yet underway.
The Investigator referred to was one who participated in the original investigation. No surprises there then.
The Portuguese will not refuse to assist. This is not an option.
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Well, there were a few things that were objected to... including 6 months' worth of bank statements for no fathomable proportionate reason.
Aside from those niggles, the first one doesn't seem to have even been received until:
First Letter of Request - dated 23rd January 2008
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RESPONSE-ROGATORY.htm
Unless anyone finds anything different.
If that's the case, they started after Team Amaral had left the case. Why didn't his team get them organised?
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The Investigator referred to was one who participated in the original investigation. No surprises there then.
The Portuguese will not refuse to assist. This is not an option.
I doubt that they would either, Eleanor*. It seems to have been a complex legal situation to work out. I'm sure the good people of Portugal would like nothing more than to solve this case.
However, the way that that article is worded is ambiguous as to which "investigators" made those remarks.
Nothing new there either.
* Correction re name.
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My question concerns who these unnamed "investigators" might be.
I don't see how they could be current ones as the letter of assistance has only just been received, so I don't see what current PT investigation is yet underway.
The investigators who remained after the case was shelved, one would think have still their names attached to the case, and no NEW ones, SEEING as it was shelved five yrs ago
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I doubt that they would either, Leonor. It seems to have been a complex legal situation to work out. I'm sure the good people of Portugal would like nothing more than to solve this case.
However, the way that that article is worded is ambiguous as to which "investigators" made those remarks.
Nothing new there either.
leonor?
8()-000(
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The investigators who remained after the case was shelved, one would think have still their names attached to the case, and no NEW ones, SEEING as it was shelved five yrs ago
I half agree with you there. They can only be former investigators as far as I can work out.
My issue is that the wording is ambiguous and could lead people to believe that the current effort at cooperation is a source of resentment amongst the team now trying to move ahead.
I don't think that is fair.
Alternatively, if those comments really did come from the current team - there isn't much point in trying to establish greater international cooperation and a sharing of best practices. If that's the case, I'd find it very depressing.
However, I'm not sure that this isn't just the press up to their old tricks.
I find that both sides of the popular press are at fault. The UK tabloids made numerous objectionable, hurtful, xenophobic comments. The PT popular press gave the impression that the T9 were a bunch of drunken louts and that the UK was about to cry "Rule Britannia" and take over a sovereign country.
Both sides were just trying to wind up the public as that is what sold papers and advertising space.
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leonor?
8()-000(
LOL I corrected it.
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I half agree with you there. They can only be former investigators as far as I can work out.
My issue is that the wording is ambiguous and could lead people to believe that the current effort at cooperation is a source of resentment amongst the team now trying to move ahead.
I don't think that is fair.
Alternatively, if those comments really did come from the current team - there isn't much point in trying to establish greater international cooperation and a sharing of best practices. If that's the case, I'd find it very depressing.
However, I'm not sure that this isn't just the press up to their old tricks.
I find that both sides of the popular press are at fault. The UK tabloids made numerous objectionable, hurtful, xenophobic comments. The PT popular press gave the impression that the T9 were a bunch of drunken louts and that the UK was about to cry "Rule Britannia" and take over a sovereign country.
Both sides were just trying to wind up the public as that is what sold papers and advertising space.
Well, the buck stops with Teresa May andher PT equivalent as far as I am concerned
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I half agree with you there. They can only be former investigators as far as I can work out.
My issue is that the wording is ambiguous and could lead people to believe that the current effort at cooperation is a source of resentment amongst the team now trying to move ahead.
I don't think that is fair.
Alternatively, if those comments really did come from the current team - there isn't much point in trying to establish greater international cooperation and a sharing of best practices. If that's the case, I'd find it very depressing.
However, I'm not sure that this isn't just the press up to their old tricks.
I find that both sides of the popular press are at fault. The UK tabloids made numerous objectionable, hurtful, xenophobic comments. The PT popular press gave the impression that the T9 were a bunch of drunken louts and that the UK was about to cry "Rule Britannia" and take over a sovereign country.
Both sides were just trying to wind up the public as that is what sold papers and advertising space.
I don't think it's fair to be constantly blaming the press, even the tabloids. They sell only what people are ready to buy.
It's a fact that the planet was amazed to learn that educated people, mainly doctors, would leave their kids alone, out of ear and eye shot, in strange flats in a foreign country, just to socialize and laugh at Ms Tanner relieving Mr O'Brien ah ah !
Should we be surprised that the popular press echoed this ?
As for "Rule Britannia", well the UK authorities made it clear that Britannia rules the waves!
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I don't think it's fair to be constantly blaming the press, even the tabloids. They sell only what people are ready to buy.
It's a fact that the planet was amazed to learn that educated people, mainly doctors, would leave their kids alone, out of ear and eye shot, in strange flats in a foreign country, just to socialize and laugh at Ms Tanner relieving Mr O'Brien ah ah !
Should we be surprised that the popular press echoed this ?
As for "Rule Britannia", well the UK authorities made it clear that Britannia rules the waves!
What a bitter and twisteed post Anne. Hatred towards the UK
I thought more of you.
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Have you ever been to Britain, Anne?
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This is the bottom of your acrimony, Sadie, you always think more of people and, crucially, of yourself.
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This is the bottom of your acrimony, Sadie, you always think more of people and, crucially, of yourself.
What was all this about Anne?
It's a fact that the planet was amazed to learn that educated people, mainly doctors, would leave their kids alone, out of ear and eye shot, in strange flats in a foreign country, just to socialize and laugh at Ms Tanner relieving Mr O'Brien ah ah !
Especially the last bit. Not very nice, is it?
And
As for "Rule Britannia", well the UK authorities made it clear that Britannia rules the waves!Not very nice either .... kinda racist
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As for "Rule Britannia", well the UK authorities made it clear that Britannia rules the waves!
Comments like that simply reveal what a very large chip you have on your shoulder, Anne!
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As for "Rule Britannia", well the UK authorities made it clear that Britannia rules the waves!
Comments like that simply reveal what a very large chip you have on your shoulder, Anne!
I didn't speak of perfidious Albion, I just completed "Rule, Britannia !" (actually I repeated Carana's omission of the comma and the exclamation mark). And you know very well, Chinagirl, there was a time when Britannia did rule the waves, the time of the Raj and the Jewel in the Crown.
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Anne: ever since I've "known" you, you have exhibited a marked animosity towards Britain, her institutions, her people. Not quite to the point of xenophobia, as with the poster Luz, but there nevertheless. Far from such an attitude being hurtful to those of us who are British on this forum, it indicates an inferiority complex on your part; what I described as a "chip on the shoulder" in my previous post.
You would be a healthier and happier person if you would make an effort to get over this.
In terms of the McCann case that we are all interested in, just accept that Scotland Yard (despite the efforts of the British sceptics on this forum to criticise), are better resourced and experienced than is the case with the PJ, and just may, with Portuguese goodwill and co-opertion, be able to supply some definitive answers - even solve it altogether.
Surely, whether pro or anti, we ALL want this?
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Or the papers dumb down their readers enough to make them want to read what they have to sell
Isn't that a bit simplistic ?
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BUMPED
by Chinagirl
Anne: ever since I've "known" you, you have exhibited a marked animosity towards Britain, her institutions, her people. Not quite to the point of xenophobia, as with the poster Luz, but there nevertheless. Far from such an attitude being hurtful to those of us who are British on this forum, it indicates an inferiority complex on your part; what I described as a "chip on the shoulder" in my previous post.
You would be a healthier and happier person if you would make an effort to get over this.
In terms of the McCann case that we are all interested in, just accept that Scotland Yard (despite the efforts of the British sceptics on this forum to criticise), are better resourced and experienced than is the case with the PJ, and just may, with Portuguese goodwill and co-opertion, be able to supply some definitive answers - even solve it altogether.
Surely, whether pro or anti, we ALL want this?
sadie: Have you personally been to the UK, Anne, and been badly treated by someone?
Cos you come over like that.
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BUMPED
by Chinagirl
Anne: ever since I've "known" you, you have exhibited a marked animosity towards Britain, her institutions, her people. Not quite to the point of xenophobia, as with the poster Luz, but there nevertheless. Far from such an attitude being hurtful to those of us who are British on this forum, it indicates an inferiority complex on your part; what I described as a "chip on the shoulder" in my previous post.
You would be a healthier and happier person if you would make an effort to get over this.
In terms of the McCann case that we are all interested in, just accept that Scotland Yard (despite the efforts of the British sceptics on this forum to criticise), are better resourced and experienced than is the case with the PJ, and just may, with Portuguese goodwill and co-opertion, be able to supply some definitive answers - even solve it altogether.
Surely, whether pro or anti, we ALL want this?
sadie: Have you personally been to the UK, Anne, and been badly treated by someone?
Cos you come over like that.
I am British through and through and I absolutely agree with Anne's posts. Does that make me a xenophobe ? The slurs and smears foisted on the Portuguese people, their legal system and their police have been nothing short of disgraceful. This case has brought out the very worst of xenophobic reactions from the UK's press and people and has actually made me ashamed of my mother country.
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I am British through and through and I absolutely agree with Anne's posts. Does that make me a xenophobe ? The slurs and smears foisted on the Portuguese people, their legal system and their police have been nothing short of disgraceful. This case has brought out the very worst of xenophobic reactions from the UK's press and people and has actually made me ashamed of my mother country.
8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
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8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(
first I think you will find that most of the press is foreign owned.
Second, the sheer hatred shown towards the McCanns by certain posters is far worse than anything in the press re Portugal.
Third. It is totally ridiculous to feel ashamed of your country because of the actions of a few posters and a foreign owned press. Shows your reasoning is more than questionable.
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the good people of Portugal
?
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Anne: ever since I've "known" you, you have exhibited a marked animosity towards Britain, her institutions, her people. Not quite to the point of xenophobia, as with the poster Luz, but there nevertheless. Far from such an attitude being hurtful to those of us who are British on this forum, it indicates an inferiority complex on your part; what I described as a "chip on the shoulder" in my previous post.
You would be a healthier and happier person if you would make an effort to get over this.
In terms of the McCann case that we are all interested in, just accept that Scotland Yard (despite the efforts of the British sceptics on this forum to criticise), are better resourced and experienced than is the case with the PJ, and just may, with Portuguese goodwill and co-opertion, be able to supply some definitive answers - even solve it altogether.
Surely, whether pro or anti, we ALL want this?
This "whether pro or anti" sounds restrictive, don't you think, Chinagirl ?
And I appreciate your caring for my health and happiness !
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I am British through and through and I absolutely agree with Anne's posts. Does that make me a xenophobe ? The slurs and smears foisted on the Portuguese people, their legal system and their police have been nothing short of disgraceful. This case has brought out the very worst of xenophobic reactions from the UK's press and people and has actually made me ashamed of my mother country.
When you feel more citizen of the world than nationalist you have plenty of occasions to feel ashamed !
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I fear anyone holding out hope that SY will do any better than the PJ did in their own country will be sadly disappointed.
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I fear anyone holding out hope that SY will do any better than the PJ did in their own country will be sadly disappointed.
Can SY afford arousing disappointment ?
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Can SY afford arousing disappointment ?
It will all fizzle out in time Anne like most unsolved cases. The sad thing though is that nobody is looking for Madeleine any more and that includes her own parents.
It is clear that priorities have changed for some!
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I fear anyone holding out hope that SY will do any better than the PJ did in their own country will be sadly disappointed.
one thing they may well do is rule out the parents.
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It will all fizzle out in time Anne like most unsolved cases. The sad thing though is that nobody is looking for Madeleine any more and that includes her own parents.
It is clear that priorities have changed for some!
I don't agree with you, John, the difference is the parents have the Met now investigating, instead of the dubious PIs they successively contracted.
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I don't agree with you, John, the difference is the parents have the Met now investigating, instead of the dubious PIs they successively contracted.
But the thing is Anne, the dubious PI's could go anywhere and use any means as long as it was technically within the law whereas SY cannot. They cannot investigate anyone in Portugal, all they can do is suggest leads to the PJ and that I am afraid is where it will all come tumbling down.
Do you honestly believe for a moment that the PJ are going to be the means of their own discredit?
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But the thing is Anne, the dubious PI's could go anywhere and use any means as long as it was technically within the law whereas SY cannot. They cannot investigate anyone in Portugal, all they can do is suggest leads to the PJ and that I am afraid is where it will all come tumbling down.
Do you honestly believe for a moment that the PJ are going to be the means of their own discredit?
I have faith in SY team John! I would echo your "dubious" about Metodo3, but I do think that Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley were genuine investigators who really wanted to help find Madeleine. JMO.
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Although they did not get a conviction SY did a good job in getting to the truth about what happened to Julie Ward in Kenya.
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But the thing is Anne, the dubious PI's could go anywhere and use any means as long as it was technically within the law whereas SY cannot. They cannot investigate anyone in Portugal, all they can do is suggest leads to the PJ and that I am afraid is where it will all come tumbling down.
Do you honestly believe for a moment that the PJ are going to be the means of their own discredit?
38 suspects after more than 2 years and 35 or so police officers working full time ! It is not yet the idea I have of the Met discrediting the PJ.
Moreover the discredit started 6 years ago and, according to some posts I read on this forum, is still very vivid ! How could it be worse ?
My guess is the PJ will respond scrupulously (at least they are courteous) to the Met's requests in the legal limits. Have a look at the rogatory mission interviews, switching the roles.
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Although they did not get a conviction SY did a good job in getting to the truth about what happened to Julie Ward in Kenya.
Good post, davel.